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Interesting counselling conclusion

(109 Posts)
Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 02:12:25

DH has seen a male counsellor twice now and the general conclusion seems to be that i have made all the major decisions in our marriage and at times rail roaded him into doing things he hasn't wanted. Getting a dog is one example, i wanted it he didnt.
Bottom line is though if i didn't kick his arse with various things we'd spend every weekend sat watching him play grand tarismo whatever so yes i have forced him to be a family man it certainly doesn't come naturally to him.

So are they saying this is my fault he's had these affairs ? It's escapism DH has said that all along.

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 02:16:22

I'm just keen to avoid making the same mistakes again, I can be bossy but i suspect in this relationship i've been so fucking unhappy for so long i've been creating diversions, babies, dogs, house moves to avoid facing the fact that DH and i lived like flat mates at times - too many times - we are friends but he's not affectionate enough or attentive, doesn't initate sex or persue me at all, not a romantic bone in his body.

Gigondas Wed 27-Feb-13 02:20:26

I couldn't read and run mosman. I don't know your history but sole counselling is always going to be about dh and what he says so will reinforce or work on whatever he thinks.

It isn't the same dynamic as couples counselling so unless dh is truly honest (and from your brief description I am not getting the impression of somewhere with a lot of emotional intelligence and self awareness) he is unlikely to see why you behave or his part in it.

Do you actually still want to be with him ?

Your two posts just look like a list to me - of reasons why you should throw the towel in. I'm sorry.

So he had affairs because you weren't going to be a doormat? Well, naughty you!

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 06:59:01

I feel like i've invested a hell of a lot in this marriage and I need to valid my choices in my own mind to end it.
I 99.9% sure it has ended and was killed dead the day I found out about the affairs but I guess I just need some re enforcement, something solid to hold on to when my resolve waivers.
He is convinced we are going on a 2nd honeymoon in June confused

izzyizin Wed 27-Feb-13 07:03:49

How does a 2nd honeymoon square with him not having ""a romantic bone in his body"?

Or would it be another diversion you've organised and 'rail-roaded' him into going?

AnyFucker Wed 27-Feb-13 07:12:20

If this was individual counselling for him, you just have your husband's word for the conclusions made then ?

MajesticWhine Wed 27-Feb-13 07:16:03

Just because it happened that way and he felt railroaded doesn't make it your fault. It is a part of the background to the affairs, and could be part of the explanation but it's still his responsibility. He chose to cheat and lie rather than address the patterns in your relationship, or find
a way to assert his own needs. Finding the root causes of affairs can help you to understand and forgive (if you want to) but you are still allowed to be angry.

kalidanger Wed 27-Feb-13 07:17:12

Are you having counselling?

mummytime Wed 27-Feb-13 07:23:03

LTB

Sorry but of course he's using his counselling to re-enforce his world view. Are you getting your own counselling?

To be frank it sounds as if your marriage has been dead and buried for a while, even before the affairs. Of course you can make decisions. In my family there are lots of things I have done/we have bought etc. which I wouldn't have without DH. The same would be true for him, but these thing enrich our lives and help us both try new things.

None of this would be a reason for either of us to have an affair.

scaevola Wed 27-Feb-13 07:26:39

Well, he's now seen you did the heavy lifting, and therefore tended to get your way. He has now realised that he doesn't like this.

Any chance the next realisation will be that the way to fix it is to be a genuine participant?

Walkacrossthesand Wed 27-Feb-13 07:46:28

Gosh, this is taking me back. 20 years ago I encouraged my then H to seek help for his depression, GP referred for counselling, which H used to spill out the feelings he was developing for OW - I was oblivious, he had never breathed a word to me that he was unhappy with our relationship, and I was PG with our 3rd child. By all accounts the counsellor validated his feelings and told him to follow his heart...which he did, leaving me for OW. If counsellor asked him to reflect on his lack of communication with me, he certainly didn't hear that. I felt invisible in the whole process - there are 2 people in any relationship but the counselling didn't (from exHs account) look at his part in how he got to be where he was, at all. There were similarities in what you describe, too - a man who was lazy about organising stuff, but felt bossed about when I arranged things...Funnily enough his DP has him completely under her thumb! Sorry about rant - don't have any words of wisdom, but are you considering couple counselling too?

Lueji Wed 27-Feb-13 08:04:55

Have you spoken to his counsellor?
He's a liar (affairs!!!).

There may be some truth in that you need to control.
Why haven't you left him if he has has affairS?

You do have to let go at some point.

AgathaF Wed 27-Feb-13 08:13:10

I agree with scaevola. He could have been a real 'partner' to you during those years you were making a family life all on your own while he played on his games. He didn't. His choice. Did he expect you all to sit and watch him?

As others have said, his counsellor has just validated his excuses for having his affair. Encouraged him to play a blame game, rather than explore his weaknesses that led to the affair and attempt to resolve them.

You sound a sure as you can be that your relationship is over.That is sad, but if he is not going to take responsibility for his actions/affair, then there really is no way for you to move forward apart from separately.

Twattergy Wed 27-Feb-13 08:29:32

Firstly counselling isn't about instant conclusions, it should be a long term process and in two sessions proper counselling won't have even started let alone reached the real issues. Secondly I don't think it helps to discuss what happens in sessions with someone in counselling, you'll never get the real picture and puts an expectation that they should report back to you. Thirdly, you should leave him and let him use the counselling to work through the reasons why the relationship failed. He sounds awful and you deserve better.

justaboutchilledout Wed 27-Feb-13 08:31:39

You've just emigrated together, right?

Did you know about the affairs prior to emigration?

Twattergy Wed 27-Feb-13 08:41:19

Also what many counsellors will do to start with is simply reflect back what their client says to them as a way of getting the client to hear their own views.this is done non judgementally and add a way for the client to cover the ground they want to.then down the line, should counselling continue the counsellor will start to draw the clients attention to themes,e.g. 'you seem to feel that the decisions you make are always the result of someone elses fault, not your own choices...' It takes a long time for a client to discover the often faulty ways in which they deal with the world. Patience is needed.sadly all too often this isn't understood by the client or they realise they don't want to face their truth and opt out.
Someone suggested you talk to the counsellor, but they won't tell you anything about the sessions at it is confidential.

Moanranger Wed 27-Feb-13 08:46:57

Passivity in a partner is so difficult. The dynamic one moves things forward, very often in a positive way, the inert one is resentful. It is exhausting for the active party. In line with his overall behaviour he won't make a move to leave & you as ever will be forced to do it. To me, the affairs are a deal breaker & doubtless his passive-aggressive way of making you act. Ignore what he says about counselling, end the relationship.

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 10:09:02

We've just emigrated and I had an idea about the affairs, I knew, just knew he'd fucked somebody but he's admitted it very recently.
The last affair was October 2011

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 10:10:11

I spoke to the counsellor about success rates because frankly I'm funding this so i wanted to know if there was any bloody point.

Whocansay Wed 27-Feb-13 10:34:42

He's been sleeping around, but his counsellor says it's all your fault? He had no choice in the matter? Well that's convenient, isn't it?

I think you're the poster who's recently moved to Australia with the MIL in tow - is that right? If so, you've put up with enough before all this! Is this why he was so desperate to move? Can you come back home again, or are you stuck now?

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 10:39:08

I am so stuck, the MIL is actually quite disgusted with him, we've become closer lol

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 10:39:43

Actually it's better I am 12000 miles away from his slapper, I'd be in police custody now if I were at home lol

Lueji Wed 27-Feb-13 11:01:12

Are you funding his counselling?
Or living in Oz?

Are you trying to keep it together for MIL and the children?

Why is he having counselling?
His idea or yours?

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 11:08:54

HIs idea, yes i've paid but then he'll cover all the bills when he gets paid

Lueji Wed 27-Feb-13 11:27:08

Is he doing anything else to gain your trust, other than counselling, and then using it to blame you?

Twattergy Wed 27-Feb-13 12:34:40

If by 'success rates' you mean the ability of a counsellor to radically change the character and life outlook and behaviour of a grown man in time to save a marriage that is on the brink of collapse then that rate would be 0%. Not possible.sounds like the whole counselling thing is just making you more angry. If he wants to have it, fine but its not going to give you what you want (a different kind of husband).

Branleuse Wed 27-Feb-13 12:38:19

counselling isn't about trying to save a failing relationship. its about working out what the client wants and working through issues. They won't tell him he's being a shit.
you should probably go to counselling too xx

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 27-Feb-13 12:42:09

If you want to fix this surely you should be going to couples counselling, rather than just him?

DewDr0p Wed 27-Feb-13 12:45:15

Fwiw I don't think the counsellor is saying you are resp for your dh's affairs. As someone else said, 2 sessions in is really very very early in the counselling process. I would expect a decent counsellor to question your dh at some point about why you pushed ahead with decisions.

It's interesting that your dh is seeking counselling alone. Was that his idea, yours or a joint decision?

onefewernow Wed 27-Feb-13 13:01:22

Railroaded him?

Maybe that is what he heard. Maybe the counsellor was summarising back to him that he was indecisive, or not assertive, or not willing to engage in stuff unless required.

That wouldnt be your fault. If his counseling leads him to see that he is someone who avoids taking open action and responsibility, then good. He can either change that, or use it as a reason to walk away. Maybe your partner is confusing power with responsibility, and still thinks he can have one without the other. He cant, of course.

If he doesnt want things which you do, and the decision needs to be a joint one, let him argue his case. And if he does want things- and he did want an affair- then he could ask for that openly, and not sneak around. And then you could get a divorce.

There is a relationship here between power and responsibility, and between assertive and unassertive behavior.

It is a version of the blame game. If he is pushed into what he doesnt want, that is not your fault but his. It is also a version of the 'you controlled me so I had to....' post affair thing, which all of us have been served up after infidelity.

newbiefrugalgal Wed 27-Feb-13 13:11:00

Hope you are ok Mosman.
Do you want to save the marriage?

Is he still living with you?

Charbon Wed 27-Feb-13 13:13:08

Couples counselling in the initial aftermath of an affair is often a very bad idea. It is far more helpful for both parties in the relationship to have some individual counselling, because their objectives and needs are different. One of the common mistakes made by couples counsellors with this issue is a default assumption that the reason for the infidelity lies with the relationship. Issues in the relationship might be partially causative of unhappiness and dissatisfaction, but they cannot be responsible for an individual's choice about how to resolve matters. Hence what's really insightful and where therapy can add value is to focus on why an individual made that choice instead of others that were available and potentially less destructive.

Two sessions is too early for any conclusions to be drawn at all and it is not unusual for a client who is grappling with guilt and loss to draw inferences from a counsellor's questions that seem to offer valid reasons for bad choices.

In fairness to the counsellor, I am hoping he is exploring a familiar couple dynamic where one of them is outwardly passive and the other, outwardly decisive and dynamic. This is a common setting for affairs because that passivity often masks passive-aggression and controlling behaviour that comes from the child ego-state. Having secret infidelities are passive-aggressive acts which are sometimes used to silently punish a more dynamic partner and to assert dominance in a relationship without having to act out that desire for dominance in an open way. An easier way to explain this is to imagine a child who likes the safety of parental control but occasionally resents it too. So he will commit acts or rebellion in secret, or lie about his activities. This gives him the feeling that he is an individual who is 'having mum over' while not having to incur her wrath and any consequences.

Mother-child dynamics are often found in relationships and are a risk factor for affairs, so I'm hoping that the counsellor is exploring whether your husband acts from the child ego-state more often than the adult ego-state.

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 14:28:55

I honestly think if we went to ouples counselling it would be an hour of me shouting you lying bastard at him and I can do that from the sofa so there's no point at the moment.
I think I need counselling to get over the shock that somebody else is prepared to fuck him, god knows I've struggled with the idea over the past few years.

It is shock and humiliation though, certainly not heartbreak, we are divorcing and then if by some miracle time heals or whatever I might be prepared to date him and co parent from arms length maybe. All sorts of things are going around my head right now about how to not ruin the kids lives.

Charbon Wed 27-Feb-13 14:33:00

It can feel counter-intuitive to have sex with someone you're used to parenting, but I'd be interested in how long that dynamic prevailed or whether it's always been there in your relationship.

AgathaF Wed 27-Feb-13 14:42:00

Mosman - is that your decision then, to divorce? It sounds like the right one from what you have said. I hope it goes as smoothly as it possibly can do.

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 14:44:13

I think it's always been there, from day one we were more or less pregnant and that continued for 12 years, it was easier for me to just crack on with the domestic stuff despite having four children and my own career it's always fallen to me to steer the ship, booking holidays, organising house moves and I thought I was allowing him to manage his career and succeed in that because I was lightening his load so to speak.
I'm probably outing myself a bit here but of course it didn't pan out that way, he ended up redundant in 2008, I thought he was having an affair in 2009 and posted a lot about it on mumsnet then because I was 12 weeks pregnant when I kicked him out on Christmas eve after finding out he'd lied about his whereabouts over night - claimed he'd slept in the car because he wanted to go on a night out we couldn't afford - and so he bloody well did what he wanted anyway and to hell with my feelings.
I supported him throughout his redundancy, not working for nearly 4 years, moved to the other side of the world so he could find work and he's repaid me by looking for casual sex in Perth angry to top off the affairs.
He must really hate me tbh

Lueji Wed 27-Feb-13 14:50:11

I think the point with these men (people, really) is that it doesn't matter how much we bend over backwards to support, they are too absorbed to even thank.
On the contrary, they will abuse you.

Much better to tell them to get a grip, really.

All this going on between the parents can't be healthy for the children, let alone you.
Perhaps a clean break is much better.

Are you working?
Would you go back home or stay?

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 14:54:36

I cannot leave Australia with the children and I cannot divorce him until we've been separated for 12 months.

Why can't you leave Australia with the children?
You know this needs to end.
I'd start the separation process now.

Oh - why do you have to be separated for 12 months.
If it's adultery then you have grounds for divorce!
Who is advising you on this stuff?

LOL! 'Railroaded' is another word for 'doing all the bloody work'. H and I discussed this with our counsellor - basically we all agreed that it was damned unfair on me and H was a lazy arse. I like our counsellor wink

<whispers> I also had to own up to my crap too.

Lueji Wed 27-Feb-13 16:16:50

Sorry if said before, but I hope you have actually separated, then.

TheOriginalLadyFT Wed 27-Feb-13 16:23:50

I'd be taking the children home for a "holiday" and not coming back. What a total arse he is

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 27-Feb-13 16:26:32

I presume Mosman cannot leave because they are his children too..

Charbon Wed 27-Feb-13 16:29:41

I doubt it was 'easier' to do it all yourself. It sounds like an enormous workload actually. Easier for him, sure. It always is when we let others take the responsibility for getting things done. What you perhaps mean is that you felt that if it was left to him, nothing got done - or if it did it would be a ham-fisted effort that would need to be rescued or re-done. You might have had counter-accusations about perfectionism, controlling behaviour or since you're a woman, that ghastly gendered term 'nagging'.

It's helpful to analyse that dynamic and see how you both enabled it, but the mistake that's often made is not noticing that the one who does least actually has the power in the relationship. It looks the opposite to the casual observer.

AnyFucker Wed 27-Feb-13 18:02:55

Unfortunately Mos cannot take her children out of Australia without his permission, and she cannot divorce on the grounds of adultery because more than 6 months has passed and they are still together

Mos, love. You have hamstrung yourself at every turn, it seems. You must have really had to put a lot of effort into making your life so very busy you didn't have to examine what the fuck was happening to your life.

Time to get off the roundabout now.

Separate from him. You will start to think more clearly.

(I hope you don't find what I just wrote too harsh for you x)

akaWisey Wed 27-Feb-13 18:33:44

Oh this is painfully familiar to me.

my ex went to counselling, I'd bet my life he didn't tell her about the affair he'd already had but she apparently told him that i was a like 'an empty vessel' who he'd never be able to fill with his love.

So he walked out of counselling and straight into his second affair. Which killed our marriage.

Get rid mosman. The marriage may be dead but you're not and you have a life to live, free in the knowledge that he won't be doing that to you again no matter what pitiful excuses he can come up with.

Good luck.

izzyizin Wed 27-Feb-13 19:18:02

If Mos were resident in England/Wales, she would have 6 months after the date she discovered he'd been romancing an ow rather than the date he did the deed to decide whether to petition for divorce citing his adultery.

If she remained living with him for 6 months after her discovery. the law would assume she'd reconciled not just to him but also to his infidelity.
However, providing she'd been married to the sleazebag for one year, there would be no bar to her instituting divorce proceedings citing his unreasonable behaviour at any time.

Given that it appears Mos has not long relocated down under, it may be that Oz law doesn't apply to her situation. Is the scumbucket he an Ozzie?

Lueji Wed 27-Feb-13 20:26:27

It would be a good idea to get legal advice both in Australia and the UK.

oldqueencrepey Wed 27-Feb-13 22:45:46

you might not be able to divorce him on grounds of adultery but you could sure as hell divorce him for unreasonable behaviour from what you've written here. What do you want to happen? What does he want to happen? If you know it's over you are just prolonging the agony... Good luck. He sounds like a twat.

oldqueencrepey Wed 27-Feb-13 22:46:26

x posts Izzy!

Mosman Wed 27-Feb-13 23:59:29

Australia has no fault divorces so It doesn't matter really about time frames but I have got to have been separated for 12 months and the other issues is our permanent residency isn't through yet - his application - without that I can't work in the country, cannot claim benefits, not that i'd want to but basically my children would be able to stay, I could not and I can't take them to the UK without his consent which he wouldn't give.
And I've given up everything to be here, my job, the house has tenants in it, grammar school place given up, we've nothing to go back to.

Mosman Thu 28-Feb-13 00:01:45

He thinks, wants to be a better husband and do stuff together - taking up golf and badminton hmm
When I work I out earn him by 110% at least, so i'm cautious about the whole thing, I'd give every cent to my children but I'm not keen on giving him a penny as he's drained me for the past 5 years.

Tortoiseonthehalfshell Thu 28-Feb-13 00:06:35

So last week, he'd had an affair because you weren't witty enough. And now he's gone to individual counselling and come back, filled with the authority of a third person, to tell you that he's had an affair because you were too good at running the household.

The man's a total twat, and I wish you would stop believing his attempts to blame you. If there was any chance at all that this marriage could be saved, it would look like this:

"Mosman, I realise I have been a total twat. There is no excuse at all for my behaviour. I realise you will not be able to trust me or respect me for a while, and that I can't influence how long that while will be, and I understand that it might be never. But in the meantime I am going to try and be the perfect husband and show you that all that is in the past".

Not

"Mosman, I realise now that my inability to keep my cock in my pants is due to various failings, and indeed strengths, on your part. If only you were both a better and also a worse person, I wouldn't have snuck around behind your back and fucked other women".

AnyFucker Thu 28-Feb-13 00:08:50

tortoise has it, I am afraid

izzyizin Thu 28-Feb-13 00:17:55

If your permanent residency hasn't been approved yet, I don't see why Oz law should apply to your situation.

The fact that you have retained property in the UK, albeit that it is rented out, gives you to the right to insitute divorce proceedings in the country where, presumably, you married and I suspect you'll find it will be more financially advantageous for you to do so.

If you wished to return to Blightly the tenants who currently occupy your property can be given notice to quit, if a particular grammer school doesn't have place there'll be others that will, and what you have to go back to will be what you make of it.

It sounds as if his suggestion of badminton and golf are diversions and unless the intention is that you only play against each other, you'll both be meeting and he'll be playing with members of the opposite sex.

It's crunch time, isn't it? What do you want to do? Abandon Oz and return to the UK with or without him or stay in Oz with or without him?

izzyizin Thu 28-Feb-13 00:19:44

'Blightly'? Shome mishtake shurely - can't be a Freudian slip, can it? grin

AnyFucker Thu 28-Feb-13 00:22:53

Mos, I am concerned you are going to wait it out for his residency and narrow your choices even more

Stop bloody sabotaging yourself ! Can you see a pattern here ?

Mosman Thu 28-Feb-13 00:31:18

I didn't have a life in the UK really, my jobs gone, the schools I positioned myself for 10 years to get into will have gone. I might as well stay in Australia - and my life is starting to shape up nicely here before the 4th Feb bombshell I was starting to make friends and be happy.
Residency is a matter of weeks not months and then suddenly a whole lot of other options open to me.

Mosman Thu 28-Feb-13 00:31:52

I know I need counselling to see the patterns and avoid them, I know that.

izzyizin Thu 28-Feb-13 00:34:52

Do you have work lined up or are you reasonably confident you'll be able to find a job that will continue to ensure you out earn him?

Mosman Thu 28-Feb-13 00:37:41

I'm very much in demand in WA, this is my moment grin hence I'm not having a cock lodger benefit from my efforts.

izzyizin Thu 28-Feb-13 00:41:24

So what's the big deal? Pull the plug on his counselling and boot him into the out back.

Mosman Thu 28-Feb-13 02:17:35

Timing is everything

justaboutchilledout Thu 28-Feb-13 02:40:44

She needs to wait until she has permanent residence izzy.

izzyizin Thu 28-Feb-13 03:24:57

Fair dos but should you be tempted to view him with a less jaundiced eye in the intervening time, I suggest you remember that once a cheater, always a cheater, and this leopard's not going to change his spots in this lifetime.

Btw, in saying 'he must hate you' I suspect you're not far off the mark and, far from glorying in your abilities, he's consumed with jealousy that he's not as capable or competent or <insert any adjectives of your choice that describes your many positive qualities> as you are.

As we've got to the root cause of his angst in a matter of minutes there's no need for you to fund endless sessions of navel gazing for him because he won't admit that, compared with your talents, he's inadequate in a million years grin

JC67 Thu 28-Feb-13 04:09:34

I don't usually post but your relationship sounds a lot like my marriage. We're now separated as H left for someone else and I now know he's had several affairs. He blames me- I was the dynamic partner and he would never say what he wanted. He's very passive aggressive and told me he was jealous of me.

The thing that's helped me most is almost a year of counselling. I don't think anything could have saved our 20 year marriage as he wasn't willing to face up to things. Your husband sounds so similar - it is a horrendous situation to be in. Take good care of yourself.

mathanxiety Thu 28-Feb-13 04:59:26

Your H is taking the piss in a massive way. Has he landed these accusations on your lap? If so, he has some nerve considering you are paying for the counselling. Stop paying for his counselling immediately. Get a lawyer for the money.

Mosman Thu 28-Feb-13 06:38:58

To be absolutely fair, it's not him that's accused but my interpretation of what the counsellor has said based on what he's told me.
The counsellor asked him how we handled conflict and H said basically we don't argue which is true, but there have been occassions like for example getting the dog, having a 4th child, buying a house where I did inist and nothing H said would have changed my mind. Now as it happens they were wrong decisions - you can't of course regret a baby and H loves the bones of him, but he didn't want the dog and ended up resenting it, hated the house and it was a bad financial decision - bought in 2007 and is a millstone around our necks. HOwever he didn't have any better suggestions or assert himself so much that these things didn't happen.
I will take that on the chin so to speak but I'm not happy that these things point to why he needed the escapism to fuck other women. I don't feel that is fair if that's where this is heading.

newbiefrugalgal Thu 28-Feb-13 07:46:29

Well I am you (sort of) in reverse!
Waiting in uk for residency so my DC have this for when they are older. If we separate or leave country before this they won't be eligible so understand your timings issue Mosman.
Difference is that I can leave the country as have his permission. I would be devastated to be forced to stay here and know I could never have any sort of relationship if that was the case. I've read DollyDownUnders thread and that's devastating.
It sucks how a partner/husband can fuck up your life because of his selfish behaviour in having an affair. Grow a backbone and deal with the relationship problems not have an affair!

scaevola Thu 28-Feb-13 08:31:36

mosman I think you are amazing in admitting that faults in the marriage were 50/50, that hard to face and can be bitter. But remember he was 100% responsible for baling out to third parties. After all, you were in the same relationship and didn't do that. And whatever you did, once he had exited, would have had no impact - you were playing against a loaded deck.

Mosman Thu 28-Feb-13 09:39:37

That's a really good way of looking at it, thank you

Imaginethat Thu 28-Feb-13 09:54:25

Thing is, the fault and blame is almost beside the point. You're living with someone who you no longer love or trust and it's time to change that. But you do need to tread carefully, to sort out residency and so on before divorcing. Else you may find yourself in a terrible situation whereby your dh and DC have residency but you have to leave.

Mosman Fri 01-Mar-13 01:53:42

We spoke last night and he's fine with getting residency sorted and splitting his pension, the house, everything 50/50
He still wants to try and work it through.

mathanxiety Fri 01-Mar-13 04:54:24

I will take that on the chin so to speak but I'm not happy that these things point to why he needed the escapism to fuck other women. I don't feel that is fair if that's where this is heading.

Of course that is where it is all heading, and I suspect you have had a highly edited version of whatever it was that the counsellor may have said. I do not think there is a counsellor on this earth who would tell a client that there was any excuse for affairs. Hence my comment about him taking the piss -- and if this is not straight from the horse's mouth (i.e. if the counsellor hasn't told you himself) then I would interpret it as an accusation on the part of your H with the counsellor's name taken in vain.

mathanxiety Fri 01-Mar-13 04:57:16

I don't think he wants to work it out. If he did he wouldn't be playing this game of blaming you and would have taken responsibility for his choices.

mathanxiety Fri 01-Mar-13 04:58:35

What you have is someone who will neither lead nor follow here. I think what he wants is to make you feel bad, or like you owe him something. He wants power, not a solid relationship.

Mosman Fri 01-Mar-13 05:22:28

The counsellor wants me to come to the next session, I'm just worried it will screw me up more though

Chubfuddler Fri 01-Mar-13 05:30:08

I really, really, really wouldn't. And I'm dubious about the counsellor who wants to lurch from individual counselling for your husband to, what exactly? Couples counselling? You coming along to be an observer? Be told its all your fault?

Just no.

mathanxiety Fri 01-Mar-13 05:33:56

Maybe the counsellor smells a rat and wants to make sure you really are a hatchet faced troll with horns and webbed toes before proceeding with your H.

My guess is your H has seriously overegged the souffle and the counsellor wants a reality check.

mathanxiety Fri 01-Mar-13 05:38:19

But if you don't feel you would get anything out of it you don't have to go. Counselling can leave you very frustrated and unheard if badly run. Can actually leave you worse off than if you just sat down and decided what you wanted and made a conscious decision to move on with your life. If raking over the relationship is something you feel would get you nowhere and you suspect that is what the session would consist of then let it be. If you had any hint that the session might be about how to move on it might be productive, But for you to go in sight unseen, possibly for some sort of nasty ambush or to realise how much the Bad Guy you have been portrayed -- I can't see how that would be a positive experience for you.

Mosman Fri 01-Mar-13 05:54:38

He does take onboard the responsibility for the actual fucking is his, he says he doesn't know why and when I say it's because you bloody wanted to he doesn't deny that. He wants to understand about himself why I can be in hotel lobby's with men giving it loads and I can get up and walk away from that and yet he openly admits if any female gave him the green light he'd have done it in the past without thinking about the consequences.
I mean is there a reason somebody would do that other than pure selfishness ?

Chubfuddler Fri 01-Mar-13 06:10:33

No there isn't. The difference is he's a philanderer and you're not. There's really no great secret he needs to understand.

Chubfuddler Fri 01-Mar-13 06:11:19

And if that's something he wants to understand about himself there's no need for you to be involved in his coubselling.

AgathaF Fri 01-Mar-13 07:01:52

Because he's weak-willed with an unusually sized ego? Because he feels entitled?

If you wanted to give the couples counselling a try, could you have a one-to-one with the counsellor yourself first, to see how the land lies, so to speak?

Mosman Fri 01-Mar-13 07:04:03

I just wish it would go away and it would stop hurting

AnyFucker Fri 01-Mar-13 08:02:22

Is he actually having counselling to try and stop fucking any woman that gives him the green light ?

Does he actually want to stop doing that ? I don't get that impression. I get the feeling he thinks "Australia ! Whole new nation of women to fuck!"

Mosman Fri 01-Mar-13 09:07:31

He says he does I am the 2nd wife, first one divorced him for adultery too they didn't even have kids so he can't blame her for neglecting him

Mosman Fri 01-Mar-13 09:08:23

He just I think was-is a very unhappy man

izzyizin Fri 01-Mar-13 10:50:56

We all have the choice of whether to be happy or unhappy with ourselves and/or with our lot in life.

He's got form and he's always going to be on the look out for ow; more cheap thrills to pander to his colossal ego and take his mind off the fact that he's a shallow twat who's incapable of making a commitment to anyone or anything except himself.

But sod him. What are you going to choose for yourself? Will you opt to live out your days as a deceived wife who's always going to be on the lookout for evidence of his wandering dick eye and will never know a moment's peace even when he's sat in front of her, or will you choose to become a woman who's learned the hard way that life's too short to squander on a philanderer who'll drop her like a hot brick should any ow offer him a more comfortable berth than she provided?

Make no mistake, honey. If you're fool enough to continue in this marriage, he's going to dump you the minute some deluded misguided sheila offers him a less demanding place to park his cock.

Chubfuddler Fri 01-Mar-13 10:53:13

What izzy said basically. He's got form of marriage breaking down due to his adultery. As my grandad used to say, "if ones not enough, ten won't be too many". He's not going to change and even if he did, could you trust him now? I couldn't.

Mosman Fri 01-Mar-13 16:26:07

No I can't ever trust him again and as you've said he will leave me, I know he will when I'm 10 years older

mathanxiety Fri 01-Mar-13 16:34:56

Mosman, you have choices too. You can cut your losses and let him live his unhappy life with only himself to damage, or sign on for the futile task of trying to make him 'happy'.

He is perfectly happy as he is.

AnyFucker Fri 01-Mar-13 16:54:15

What's so great about this man ?

Mos, why do you want to sit back and wait until he decides he's done with you?

Wouldn't your self respect get a massive boost for taking control of the situation and saying "no more"?

Mosman Sat 02-Mar-13 01:36:02

It's more that i don't want my children to come from a divorced family, I did, I hated it and I so wanted it to be different for them.
Equally I'm aware that if we are back in this situation in 5 years time that will be right in the middle of my eldest's GCSE's.

In my heart of hearts I know it's all over I do, but I'd still like an explanation of what went so wrong and how to make sure I don't pick another dickhead.

izzyizin Sat 02-Mar-13 02:46:29

Job provides a salutory lesson in the things that we fear coming upon us and, of course, history often repeats itself through generations.

Why did you hate coming from a 'divorced family'? Whatever the reasons, presumably you've learned enough from your experience to ensure that your dc have a more positive view of their dps living separately than you did.

Were so you so foolish as to let fear of the 'd' word influence your decisions, I would imagine that some, at least, of your dc would come to hate being the sticking plaster that keeps their dps stuck in a stultifying marriage and, quite possibly, come to despise either/both of their dps for being such abysmal role models for intimate relationships.

As for not picking another dickhead, there's no guarantees in either life or love but you can minimise the risk by discarding any who have form for illicit legovers and/or telling porkies whether to themselves or to others, and eliminate those who need to be dragged kicking and screaming to the plate of responsible adulthood and parenthood.

However, before you set about casting your net for another catch, you're best advised to spend a considerable period of time reflecting on why you want to land what could be another dud when it's perfectly possible to have an intensely rewarding and fulfilling life without having a live-in paramour cramping your style.

Mosman Sat 02-Mar-13 02:56:18

smile

mathanxiety Sat 02-Mar-13 02:57:38

Mosman, children can be just as damaged by living in a family where the dad thumbs his nose at the mum. I came from an ordinary, boring, happy family and have been a single mother since 2007 -- when I told my oldest DD (then aged 16) that exH and I were separating and would divorce she told me a load of stuff she had known about his internet adventures but hadn't felt she could talk to me about in case she put me in an awkward situation. She was relieved the whole thing was finally over and we could talk. I felt at the time of the separation that all I really had left were my dignity and my integrity but I felt those two items were worth keeping intact, and that the children would benefit from having one parent who showed an example of valuing her self respect.

How a divorce is handled and the emotional fallout on the children depend to a huge extent on the choices and level of maturity of the parents involved. You can both make a conscious commitment to limit the fallout and to be civil for the sake of the children.

Mosman Sat 02-Mar-13 03:15:03

I honestly think we can be civil and parent the children together after a split.
It's just timing as I said, I need PR through first and then it's game over.

izzyizin Sat 02-Mar-13 17:14:04

I sincerely hope that it is game over for him, Mos, because the losers will be your dc if you continue to play ball in order to keep your sham of a marriage ongoing.

wallypops Sat 02-Mar-13 17:40:53

I would have un-happily spent my life married to the worst kind of twunt to avoid the shame of divorce. It turns out that I love being divorced, absolutely no shame involved, plus I get every other weekend off. Don't like sharing the holidays, but from my point of view that is the only downside of actually being divorced. If you want sex, go ahead and get some, but that does NOT mean having to live with anyone other than the kids - who will give you all the love you could possibly want!

Diagonally Sat 02-Mar-13 17:46:30

I wouldn't go to the cou selling.

It's not very likely to work, by the sound of things - if you don't have a conscience, you can't exactly get one installed retrospectively.

I'd keep your distance and start planning your life the way you want it, without him featuring more than being the father of your children

Why would you wait for PR and trap yourself and the kids in a country where he is your only support system. I would scupper the whole thing and move myself and the kids home to have the support of family and friends.
You have a small baby 18 years is a long long time.

justaboutchilledout Sun 03-Mar-13 06:00:05

Squinkies, I think you are making several big assumptions there! I have recently emigrated and I know exactly what OP means - there is no way in hell I would come back to the UK if my marriage broke up.

Mosman Sun 03-Mar-13 10:15:04

Well lucky old you to have family and friends to return to, I would live around the corner from his trollop and have no job and places at the schools nobody else wants so I think I'll stay put.
He's never been a support system, what you've never had you never miss.

I'm sorry to hear that you have no support system either in Australia or UK. From that view I suppose whatever country you will have the better life in is the one to aim for.
I was making an assumption obviously, I can only go on what I have read (or remember) and seeing you only just moved there I assumed you had left behind friends and family.

Mosman Mon 04-Mar-13 01:12:38

I have more support in Australia than in the Uk so it's all good. Plus I've spent every penny i had getting here and settling in, I'm damn if that'll be for nothing. My mum arrived back in the UK with 2 suitcases 20 years ago leaving my step dad and was fine but that was back in the day went you went to the council and said I've got kids and they handed you keys for something within weeks, that would never happen now.

You're right it wouldn't happen now. I think I read that you will be a high earner in demand there too, so that is a huge plus. I hope it goes well, you sound stronger than I am.

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