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Dh and fb swooping

(131 Posts)
Cuddlemedolly Fri 22-Feb-13 12:42:11

Silly question really, probably over analysing!

Dh rents houses to students. We have recently signed up students for the next uni year in a house of 3 girls and 1 boy. He has met them a few times and signed contracts etc. He said they were nice and was happy for them to rent off us.

This was a few weeks ago, but I found on his fb that he has searched for their profile pages. Now normally i suppose he would just be checking them out prior to signing them up to see if they seemed like responsible tenants. However, we signed them weeks ago and it is only now he is searching for them. He also only searched for the girls who are young and pretty and not the boy.

He may have searched for them online too, but no way of knowing!

Silly I know, but am I just being paranoid! Why is he fb spying on them?

BananaMouse Fri 22-Feb-13 12:52:27

Maybe he is spying on them for the same reason you are spying on him? To see what they are up to at a guess!

Cuddlemedolly Fri 22-Feb-13 13:02:06

He has a habit of being secretive and keeping things from me. I trust him, but his behaviour is strange sometimes. I found his snooping by accident.

yellowbrickrd Fri 22-Feb-13 13:10:35

He has a habit of being secretive and keeping things from you but you trust him? Sounds a bit contradictory. What else is strange about his behaviour?

Cuddlemedolly Fri 22-Feb-13 13:19:13

I think he keeps everything from me that he thinks will look suspicious, even if his actions aren't that suspicious iykwim. He has a history of looking for images of attractive women/girls on the Internet to lust over. Not necessarily porn, but searching for 'girls in bikinis/underwear' etc. even though he knows I hate it, he will do it in secret until I find out, stop then start it up again.

Is it acceptable for dh to search for semi naked women to lust over on line?

Is his fb searching re the students him being nosey or lustful? Why not the boy? Am I being paranoid?

I'm sure I only know the half of it.

LemonDrizzled Fri 22-Feb-13 13:38:07

Cuddleme you sound as though you want to get inside your DHs head. That doesn't seem quite healthy. If you want to know what he is thinking, and to understand his attitude to women and young students (Hmm hmm ) then surely you sit him down and ask him?

Whether it is acceptable for him to look at pictures of women is subjective.
It is legal. Many man think it is normal. Some women expect it. Some hate it. Some think it is a sign of a lack of respect for women.
What do YOU think? Is it acceptable to YOU? That is what matters

BananaMouse Fri 22-Feb-13 13:40:18

Is it something you could ask him about? Maybe he is just curious about the students. I look people up on Facebook when I have no intention at all of sending a friend request. I suppose I am just nosey smile I don't think that it's necessarily anything to worry about.

LemonDrizzled talks sense, what is acceptable to you is what matters.

Cuddlemedolly Fri 22-Feb-13 13:48:57

The student thing probably wouldn't bother me normally. He is prob being nosey but also checking them out, otherwise he would have searched for the boy too?

I don't like him looking for semi naked women on line. It makes me feel rubbish about myself. We argued about it recently when he did it a few weeks after having dd.

If I speak to him, he will just totally minimise it as he does anything that he thinks will cause an issue.

LemonDrizzled Fri 22-Feb-13 13:58:15

So it is not acceptable to you, but when you have tackled him he dismisses your feelings. Does this happen often then?
What would be a deal breaker for you? If he looks at naked ladies when DD is there? Or you find him masturbating? Would you ever end the relationship over this? Or is it just a symptom of a bigger problem?

Sorry for so many questions. I don't like it much either, from a feminist perspective. I'm surprised nobody has marketed any ethically sound porn made in Fairtrade premises with well paid models!

Cuddlemedolly Fri 22-Feb-13 14:46:41

Thanks lemon.

Is searching for semi naked women porn? I would prefer it if he was looking at sex porn as it doesn't feel so personal, more about the sexual acts iykwim.

Dh doesn't dismiss my feelings, but promises to stop and then sometime later I find out he is doing it again. When I found out about it just after having dd a few months ago, again he apologised and said he wouldn't do it as he knew how much it upset me. He isn't secretive with his phone now to show he isn't hiding anything, but I suspect he could cover his tracks anyway as he is quite IT savvy or use another computer etc.

At the moment, I suppose we are in a phase where he as stopped and I suppose his fb searching for the girls has made me think whether he s starting to get back to his old tricks.

He used to moan about us not having enough sex, but I've noticed that now I'm making more effort after having dd 3 months ago, he isn't as enthusiastic as I thought he'd be. Seems to be more about his ego and performance rather than making me feel sexy and desired.

Zaphiro Fri 22-Feb-13 16:14:36

I don't think anything good can come of checking his browser history, which I assume is what you've done (learned this the hard way myself!). The problem isn't the students or him looking at them so much as you not trusting him and feeling unwanted. You need to get the romance and intimacy back, which will be hard with a young child. Date nights, a meal out, movie night, etc?

Numberlock Fri 22-Feb-13 16:26:14

He's a disrespectful arse, perving over young students and looking at images of women just after you've given birth?

Fuck the date nights, I'd dump the misogynostic twat. What a wonderful role model he's being for his daughter...

Zaphiro Fri 22-Feb-13 16:34:37

Really, Numberlock?! You don't think that's a bit harsh? I look up people on Facebook (and LinkedIn, Twitter, etc) all the time and it's not really perving, it's just being nosy.

OP I have taken great offense at my DP looking at other women's photos online before. But then I realised I do it far more than he does so can't really judge. It's normal human behavior IMO. It only pissed me off when I was feeling insecure in the relationship.

DopamineHit Fri 22-Feb-13 19:06:19

Not necessarily porn, but searching for 'girls in bikinis/underwear' etc. even though he knows I hate it, he will do it in secret until I find out, stop then start it up again.

This stinks. Not the porn necessarily but the fact that you hate it but he nevertheless does it in secret, knowing that you hate it. It is utterly disrespectful of your feelings.

Now I'm making more effort after having dd 3 months ago, he isn't as enthusiastic as I thought he'd be. Seems to be more about his ego and performance rather than making me feel sexy and desired.

Sorry, but this screams <covers ears> heavy porn user. The fb stuff may or may not be a red herring. This isn't.

Numberlock Fri 22-Feb-13 19:11:52

I don't think it was harsh enough, Zaphiro. Why should she put up with him making her feel shit? And it's obvious he wasn't just being curious about the female students on FB, based on his other internet activity.

OP - ask him to move out while you decide what you want to happen next.

ImperialBlether Fri 22-Feb-13 23:52:33

I would make sure he doesn't go to see these girls alone, tbh. I'd go myself or accompany him. He sounds like a letch to me. Am I the only one hoping and praying my daughter never has someone like him as a landlord?

izzyizin Sat 23-Feb-13 04:00:42

On reading your OP, and before having got to Numberlocks and IB's responses, my immediate thought was 'this man's a bit of a pevert' and, having read all of the thread to date, I see no reason to change my opinion.

Looking your young female tenants up on FB no doubt hoping to see shots of them in bikinis/scantily dressed. What next? Cameras in their bedrooms/bathrooms?

I suggest you act on the aforementioned responders' advice and also take on board Dopamine's response because it seems probable that his 'peformance' is linked to a heavy porn habit.

Littleturkish Sat 23-Feb-13 04:24:05

I find the searching for the female students massively creepy.

He sounds like a letch.

There is no need to search for them.

He DOES dismiss your feelings, as he just repeats his behaviour.

No one deserves to be treated like this.

AnyFucker Sat 23-Feb-13 14:04:41

Dirty ole man with a porn habit

Yuk

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 01:25:59

I asked dh why he had checked their fb accounts, he said it was to check if they were responsible students. He agreed it looked dodgy.

What do I do? Do I believe him?

izzyizin Sun 24-Feb-13 01:40:13

Need you ask?

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 01:42:29

He says he was being nosey, but isn't a letch or a perv. What do I do about it?

izzyizin Sun 24-Feb-13 01:42:51

IME very few students post pictures of themselves looking 'responsible' on social network sites.

He looked because he wants to perv over them... if this hadn't been his intention, he'd have looked up your male student too.

Numberlock Sun 24-Feb-13 08:38:22

What do you do? Ask him to move out while you decide what you want to happen next? (Or cut to the chase and get rid.)

RobDile197 Sun 24-Feb-13 14:02:16

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

TrampyPants Sun 24-Feb-13 14:10:28

Yes, stay with a man who snoops on pretty young girls and has no respect for you or your feelings!

<eyeroll> 83% of statistics are bullshit.

Op, I agree with the majority, this man sounds vile.

Hissy Sun 24-Feb-13 14:17:12

"98% of healthy men enjoy it at various points in their lives?"

And then they leave their teens and find out that being a real man means satisfying and cherishing a REAL woman.

Have your balls even dropped yet Rob? Haven't you got a box of tissues to get through? Cos you sure as hell ain't doing any good here...

hmm

KnittedCharacter Sun 24-Feb-13 14:24:16

Did u ask him why he didnt look up the boy?

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 15:02:54

He said he did look for the boy but couldn't find him on fb.

Should I really ask him to leave after 20 years together and 3dc because he looked at the profile pages of student tenants? It's difficult to know where the boundaries are anymore.

DopamineHit Sun 24-Feb-13 15:15:03

Robdile - possibly 98% of men do look at porn. Wouldn't surprise me. I'm a bloke and I use it occasionally. Looking at porn is not the major issue here - it's the associated lying and disrespect that's the real problem. OP has indicated that she hates her partner using porn. He responds by saying OK I won't and does anyway. That's a weak response. Either he should defend his use of porn and they discuss it or he should agree not to use it and stick to that.

There is also the other fb stuff and some indications that he might have a bad porn habit. I don't think she should boot him out and call a solicitor. That's completely OTT. But it's an issue that he needs to address honestly or it'll get worse.

Numberlock Sun 24-Feb-13 15:18:27

So how do you suggest she addresses it this time then?

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 15:34:12

Dh has said that he has never looked at sex porn as he thought this was going over the boundaries of appropriate behaviour. He has looked at girls in bikinis etc online or things like the nuts website. When I have found out about this, he has always been remorseful and seemed genuine and then promises he will stop, then at some point starts it up again.
Things came to a head when I found out he had been looking at images again just a few weeks after having dd. I was hormonal, upset and felt rubbish. The thought of him looking at these images whilst I was recovering from birth and nursing his dd really knocked my confidence. He was upset at how upset it made me. He lets me check his phone etc and has tried to be more open.

The fb snooping might be entirely innocent and he may have just been checking out what they were like, but I just don't know. I don't know what to do about it for the best. It's upsetting for me. sad

bestsonever Sun 24-Feb-13 15:44:16

20 years together, not surprising that the sex life does not quite have the oomph it used to. Is that a reason to turn purvey and lurk at RL people on facebook much younger than himself ?
It's an undesirable trait that he has, I don't quite know what would be best here as if you were going to not put up with it, or try and sort his attitude then it's 20 years long due and probably a part of his character/personality.
Feeling inadequate and seeing these images as a measure against yourself is perhaps better to work at.
Maybe some scantily clad Johnny Depp pics, or whatever floats your boat laying around the house/bedroom wink, could make a point. There does seem a line has been crossed now he's looking at people he's met and in a poss position of power over?

Hissy Sun 24-Feb-13 16:36:20

I dunno Cuddle but the comment made earlier, that these girls are DDs to someone, and it makes me SHUDDER to think about someone perving over our children like that.

How would he feel if someone was looking HIS DD up , leering over her in the way he was with these girls. Long story short, if you are renting to these people, you have a deposit, an inventory and their day to day life is NONE OF ANYONE'S BUSINESS.

It sounds grubby, and it IS creepy.

Tell him to reign his dick in, or you WILL lose respect for him.

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 16:47:41

If you're looking at fb profiles does that make it pervy? They're not children but 18/19 year olds. Genuine question?

He is adamant he was just being nosey and seeing what they were like. Does that make him creepy? I really don't know what is acceptable and what isn't and I truely don't know what to do about it. Any advice?

fluffyraggies Sun 24-Feb-13 16:54:14

OP - every one here can only give advice based on their own values, opinions, feelings etc.

Mine are this:
the thought of my DH looking at pictures of other women in bikinis doesn't fill me with joy - but it isn't something i would break the relationship over on it's own. I wouldn't like my DH telling me what i can or cant look at when i'm alone.

the looking up of the students on FB would have me feeling uncomfortable. I would push this. I would have a go at looking up the male student and see if you can find him easily. I would be telling my DH i'm not happy.

You need to decide how you feel OP, and forget about trying to decide how you should feel.

Hissy Sun 24-Feb-13 17:12:38

It IS creepy, given his bikini habit. His copybook IS blotted in this already.

An 18 yo's life is NOTHING to do with him.

His only interest is that they pay their rent on time.

If your DD's LL was looking up her and only FEMALE flatmates, how would YOU feel? Make sure you teach her how to be invisible on FB in good time eh?

Given his history, he has no business in snooping around a teen girl's FB. Your instincts led you to post here, remember that? You thought it was unsavoury way before you brought this to MN.

Trust your instincts.

Hissy Sun 24-Feb-13 17:14:21

I too think that the boy HAS to be on FB. Just that H is not interested in his goings-on.

LittleEdie Sun 24-Feb-13 17:31:11

He was ogling them. Only you can decide if that is acceptable to you.

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 18:34:15

Dh said he had a quick look on their profiles to be nosey and see if they were responsible students. He tried to look for the lad but couldn't find find him. He says he looks at other fb profiles too even if he isn't going to friend them. Just being normal and nosey, but was not done in a pervey way. I found out by looking on his fb activity page.

His version is that he just had a quick glance of their fb pages because they are tenants. My version is he is looking at fb pages of 18 year old tenants. Dh says I am twisting it into something it wasn't.

It is not acceptable to me and I don't see how he could justify doing it, on one hand it's harmless on the other hand it is inappropriate.

I really don't know where to go with it. We have 3 young dc, I am tired.

FrameyMcFrame Sun 24-Feb-13 18:47:34

Search for the boy yourself, then you can see if he is telling the truth.

his behaviour sounds like the pattern of someone who has an online porn addiction.

catlady1 Sun 24-Feb-13 18:58:11

As others have said - search for the lad yourself. If he pops up in the first few search results as I suspect he will then your DH is lying.

Obviously my personal opinions are pretty much irrelevant on this subject since it's YOUR relationship and therefore it's how YOU feel that matters, but I think that looking at random half-naked models online is one thing (and arguably a "normal" thing that lots of men do), but looking up "real" young girls who he will be seeing and talking to in real life is quite another.

izzyizin Sun 24-Feb-13 19:05:29

Of course you're tired. Dealing with tricky dickys such as your h is extremely wearing.

Depending on how frequently he indulges himself, looking at what he claims is not much more than page 3 images on the net could be regarded as a somewhat distasteful but harmless pastime.

However, as evidenced by his 'performance' of late, I suspect he's gone way beyond page 3 but it's probable that hell will freeze over before he admits it.

As for checking out your young female tenants on FB, 'normal' people are not 'nosey' and he's very definitely crossed the line and been caught with his trousers down, so to speak.

It's down to you to decide what you can cope with/what you want to do about it, dolly, but it seems to me your h is the type of man who needs to be put through the wringer numerous a few times before any truth can be wrung out of him - and, even then, more turns of the handle are necessary to fully extract honest responses from him.

deste Sun 24-Feb-13 19:13:59

When we rented our flat in Guildford I looked up the guy on Facebook to see what kind of tenant we had. TBH he is a lot calmer and better behaved than the impression he gave on Facebook. When you have to do things over the phone and Internet it was the only way I could see who we were getting.

deste Sun 24-Feb-13 19:15:53

Pressed too soon. He is about one third of my age so i definitely didn't do it to stalk him or because I fancied him.

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 19:17:18

Thanks all. Izzy you are right that I really have to squirm any information out of him. He is a genuinely good guy, but the fb thing gas got me thinking.

So you think a line has been crossed? I checked and I found the lad quite quickly. Dh said he thought he had looked and tried to find him but obviously hadn't.

My emotions are all over since the baby, which makes you feel white vulnerable so things you may normally accept become a little blurred.

What do I say to dh, where do I go from here. He is moping around at the moment apologising and saying he just didn't think how dodgy it looked and hadn't given it a second thought until I had raised it. He dad said he has tried so hard to be open and honest lately and us upset he's messed up.

Littleturkish Sun 24-Feb-13 19:30:42

How does he make you feel?

When you look at him, knowing he has looked up teenage girls he has authority over, how does that change the way you see him?

On the whole, does he make you happy? Is he fulfilling his role as husband, partner and lover for you? Do you feel like you fullfill your role as wife, partner and lover to him?

Basically- if your daughter grew up to rent a room from a man who then searched for her online AFTER renting the room to her (so nothing about approving before she moved in) AFTER meeting her, how would you feel? How would your husband feel?

izzyizin Sun 24-Feb-13 19:38:45

In that case he's going to have to try a damn sight harder than he has done, dolly.

Of course he didn't give looking up your young female tenants on FB a second thought - he was too busy following up his first thought which was to look for pix of them scantily clad or otherwise so he could perve over them, and the fact you quickly found your young male tenant gives the lie to his account.

Had he asked your tenants whether they were on facebook/other social media site and enquired whether they had any objection to him looking them up, he wouldnt have crossed the line between what is acceptable and what is a wholly unnecessary intrusion on their private lives.

The bottom line is he knows what he's doing is wrong - otherwise why would he go to such lengths to hide it?

I don't envy you having a man like him as a spouse as the truth is you'll never know for sure what the truth is.

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 19:45:18

He makes me feel so wound up and annoyed Turkish that he has put me in the position where I don't know what to think. He said he wouldn't like it if a LL looked at our dd on fb, but said he didn't look on their profiles in a sleazy way.

He is adamant that he is not a perv or a sleeze, but surely looking at tenant profiles makes him one? He said just because you look at a female profile does not make you a sleaze.

God it's soo trivial, but he knows I hate the whole porn thing and I just don't know if this connected or something entirely separate.

I'm just stuck again either accepting his explanation or not. He said he never engages with women on line, would never have an affair and no longer even looks at the daily mail soft porn articles for fear of upsetting me. Am I too controlling or is he just feeding me a line..

izzyizin Sun 24-Feb-13 19:48:11

He's feeding you a line - don't bite it and don't buy it.

Cuddlemedolly Sun 24-Feb-13 19:48:21

You're right izzy. I never know for sure what the truth is and I suppose that is what the real problem is sad

LittleEdie Sun 24-Feb-13 19:51:43

I honestly don't think looking at pictures that people have posted on a public forum is that bad. Even if he fancied them a bit.

You say 'he's a genuinely good guy'.

izzyizin Sun 24-Feb-13 20:00:38

For a male to look at a female profile does not, in itself, make him a sleaze

However, I'd hazard a guess that if a female was in her 40s and looked like the back of a bus your h wouldn't bother, and he fact he's bothered to search FB for your young female tenants and not bothered to search for your young male tenant's profile says it all.

You'll go round in circles and drive yourself crazy with this, dolly, and you're best advised to cut through his crap to the chase - lay out what is acceptable and what is not acceptable to you and make it clear to him that if he crosses the line again you will be giving consideration to divorce because you are not prepared to live with a man you cannot trust as far as you can throw him.

Southeastdweller Sun 24-Feb-13 20:34:57

I'm sorry you're feeling like this. I think he's a lying sleazeball and if I were you I'd be worrying about what else he's lied about or withheld from me, as well as being concerned that he may be eating up with the students alone. Agree with izzy - time to lay down the law.

Cuddlemedolly Mon 25-Feb-13 00:07:31

Well we've had an enormous row. He's sleeping in the spare room. I am totally miserable.

How many times can you forgive someone for telling lies and trivial inappropriate behaviour.

Buzzardbird Mon 25-Feb-13 00:58:28

Oh dear, sorry to hear it has escalated.
I did think that it was a bit Eeew looking at the girls fb pages but could be a lot worse.
hope you can sort things out.

izzyizin Mon 25-Feb-13 01:08:36

Sooner or later you'll simply run out of patience with his continual lies and inappropriate behaviour because it isn't that he doesn't know to behave - he knows it's wrong, he knows it winds you up, but he does it anyway and it's massively disrespectful to you and isn't going to set a good example for your dc.

If not now, at some point you'll have to give him an ultimatum along the lines of sort yourself out, rein yourself in, and start behaving as if you've got a moral compass, otherwise it's over because life is far too short to waste on this crap.

Who needs constant low level stress from a man who's intent on behaving like a lowlife? hmm

Diagonally Mon 25-Feb-13 17:24:19

Hi OP, sounds like the problem you have is that you are trying to match his actions to his words and they don't fit.

That is why you don't trust him. What he says sounds right. What he does feels wrong.

The thing is you've got to believe either what he says, or what he does - you can't believe both.

If there is a difference between the two, the truth will always be in a person's actions, not their words.

AnyFucker Mon 25-Feb-13 18:15:52

In other words (if you prefer this analogy...), you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

Cuddlemedolly Mon 25-Feb-13 18:45:56

That is it diagonally. What he says doesn't match hs actions. He has admitted searching for the girls on fb and flicking through their profiles to be nosey. He also searched for other girls he was showing round. Again he said this was to see what they were like prior to a viewing. He is adamant that in no way was it in a sleazy way. There is no evidence he searched for the lad, but he said he tried to find his profile via their friends but couldn't. When I searched I found him straight away.

Dh is not an obvious sleaze, he is a good guy and many see him as a catch. However he has a habit of being secretive about things. Following on from him looking at images of girls on the the net after dd, we have discussed in great detail about honesty and openness and how it's not the act but the promises and deception. He has freely let me view his phone and fb etc to try to build trust. However he didn't know about the fb activity log which is how I found out. It feels like he has no concept of boundaries or appropriateness. I do not think he would have an affair, he loves his family too much.

I think he has overstepped the mark with fb and has been caught red handed. He may or may not be telling the truth. I don't know, but it is the constant upset and stress caused by his dishonesty. All relatively low level actions but repetitive and my patience has ran out.

I asked him to pack a few things this morning and move out for a few days. He was crying and kept apologising, which is his normal approach when he has messed up. I feel miserable, it sickens me to think he believes it is acceptable to view 18 year old profiles of girls who we will have a responsibility to. Even if I accept his explanation why would a man want to nosey on girls profiles over half his age.

I don't know where to go with it now. Does this sound like a man who respects me and my feelings? Am I blowing it out of proportion?

izzyizin Mon 25-Feb-13 19:44:54

There's natural curiousity and there's prying which is the modus operandi of a nosey parker.

There's the natural curiousity of a landlord borne of concern for their property which may lead them to check out prospective tenants by other means than written references but which, taken to extreme, becomes prying.

He has overstepped the mark with FB and alleging that he couldn't find the lad when you were able to access his profile without any problem gives rise to suspicion that his motivation wasn't to make additional checks out of concern for your property, but was something considerably less wholesome, i.e perving over photos of young women.

If he cannot see this, and cannot see how disrespectful it was to make these searches without informing or including you - after all, you found the guy and could have easily found the gals if he'd said 'let's take a peek at FB to check these prospective/signed tenants are who they claim to be' - there isn't much hope he'll change his ways.

That's not to say that the pair of you should be joined at the hip unable to act independently of each other but, when it comes to matters in which you have a joint vested interest, there shouldn't be any secrecy in either of your dealings.

And if he's going to continue to be secretive about these matters, he's got to accept that, in common with any rightminded person, you may become suspicious and fear the worst about why he's being secretive.

I feel like I'm going round in circles here and it's irritating the shit out of me, so god knows what you feel like having to deal with this on a regular basis, dolly confused

Regardless of whether he was perving, he's a silly sod to risk so much for the cheap thrill of spying/prying into your tenants' private lives and he should know that being a nosey parker is not a trait that wins universal acclaim and approbation - it's a character defect which he's best advised to address before someone punches him on the nose takes exception to his behaviour.

LittleEdie Mon 25-Feb-13 20:50:27

It seems like you feel that any passing attraction he has for someone else acts as a fundamental betrayal of your relationship. Do you think he wants to do something about it, like try to sleep with one of them? I think that's where I'd draw the line between harmless thoughts and genuine sleaze. If not then I think you're blowing it out of proportion, honestly.

Hissy Tue 26-Feb-13 07:40:15

Checking out tenants AFTER they've signed is POINTLESS. They have rights, you can't change your mind based on a FB profile. The court'd have a field day.

IF he were really doing this as part of the reference process, it'd have involved the OP and included the male tenant and been open. It would have formed part of the selection process and would have been a joint decision.

What he did was check out the girls, not the guy' and when all the ink was already dried.

He has form for bikini shots and titillating himself with images of women on the internet. This is exactly what he was doing, but he's coming up with lame excuses, riddled with holes, and now crying..

I agree he needs to get away for a few days, the OP has a right to live with an honest and open man, one that doesn't snoop on women and make up stories to justify it. He needs to see that his surfing habits are annoying and intrusive, they are pointless and without any foundation. That tenant reference horse has bolted.

I suggest in future, that you use an agency to find and reference tenants.

Cuddlemedolly Tue 26-Feb-13 09:20:34

As is often the case, the action is only a small part of it. He has form with his secrecy, lies and excuses. Always relatively low level stuff be it porn, money web surfing etc. My patience has run out and bored of the same scenarios but different topics reoccurring time and again.

I haven't heard from him, he s probably wallowing somewhere. It is v difficult when he is a great dh in so many ways, but at one point to you say no more and that I deserve to live without this shit.

It is also hard him not being here to help with the dc. I suppose you get used to it and that is no reason to take a dishonest man back.

BIWI Tue 26-Feb-13 09:42:27

My son is a student, and he has just signed the lease on a property with 3 girls.

This post sent chills down my spine at the thought that their landlord might be snooping on them. It also made me very angry. I shall be warning them all to be very careful around their landlord.

This is truly horrible behaviour, never mind being totally disrespectful to you.

LittleEdie Tue 26-Feb-13 19:20:43

BIWI If they don't want people looking at pictures of them then they shouldn't post then on FB. Or set their privacy high, or whatever you do.

AnyFucker Tue 26-Feb-13 20:08:51

If you don't want to be married to the kind of person that looks for pictures of young girls he has authority over, then don't be

I mean...who would ? < shudder >

TrampyPants Tue 26-Feb-13 20:18:57

Littleedie, yes, people should protect their privacy. But, you know what, they should be able to post them without twats like the op's h perving over them. Your post is victim blaming in its most simple form.

LittleEdie Tue 26-Feb-13 21:02:27

In what way are they victims?

WhoWhatWhereWhen Tue 26-Feb-13 21:05:51

Maybe he's hoping they fall behind with the rent

AnyFucker Tue 26-Feb-13 21:14:23

ergghhh

AnyFucker Tue 26-Feb-13 21:19:36

Edie victim blaming is when you place responsibility for someone else's poor behaviour on someone who hasn't invited it

These girls having a FB account did not entice some ole perv who could actually put them in a very difficult position should he so choose, to have a sneaky shufti in the hope of seeing some bikini pics of them

it's one thing to look for pics of anonymous pretty unclad ladies, and quite another to deliberately hunt out ones of young women he knows in the ludicrous guise of protecting his financial assets

AnyFucker Tue 26-Feb-13 21:19:55

the former is a bit sad, the latter is decidedly creepy

TrampyPants Tue 26-Feb-13 21:28:40

I was just going to respond, but af did it perfectly.

BIWI Tue 26-Feb-13 22:28:51

LittleEdie - yes, absolutely they should - but it still doesn't excuse the behaviour of someone like their landlord, from whom they should be safe doing this.

Do you not realise just how creepy and objectionable this kind of thing is? Why on earth would he want to do it? And why not search the boy's FB page? If he was really interested in knowing how 'safe' they are as tenants, then he would be looking at the boy's page as well as those of the girls.

Diagonally Tue 26-Feb-13 23:05:34

I hope you are OK OP.

You sound so weary of his behaviour.

Hopefully you have been able to use his absence to think about your options. It's no life waiting for the other shoe to drop all the time.

When you give someone lots of chances to "do right" and they reward you with "doing worse", its time to bail, imo.

LittleEdie Tue 26-Feb-13 23:16:54

I just don't think that looking at pics on Facebook of people you fancy is that bad a thing. Honestly!

AnyFucker Tue 26-Feb-13 23:22:07

An equal playing field, I would agree with you, Edie

But that isn't the case here, is it?

Op's H is

1) in a position of authority over the girls
2) substantially older than the girls
3) married to the OP
4) has form for dodginess

he can do what he likes, it's not against the law. But I wouldn't want to be married to him. Would you ?

BIWI Tue 26-Feb-13 23:24:41

How would you feel if it was your child, LittleEdie?

Someone who is in charge of them?
Someone who is taking money from them?

There is something inherently creepy about this, do you not think?

And if you don't think this, why not? How do you justify this?

How do you think I should feel about this, as a parent of one of the children?

BIWI Tue 26-Feb-13 23:25:30

NB I have no idea if I am one of the parents - I should make that clear. But I am in - potentially - a similar situation to the parents of the tenants of the OP's house. 1 boy and 3 girls.

LittleEdie Tue 26-Feb-13 23:30:26

It's as if people are suprised that middle aged men find 18 year olds attractive! He's guilty of a thought crime - no more!

That said, if you're not happy and want to leave him then do so. But you did ask 'am I blowing it out of proportion?' And I honestly think so.

Zaphiro Tue 26-Feb-13 23:34:02

BIWI they're not children, they're over 18. They're adults who put photographs of themselves in the public sphere and happen to have a financial agreement with the OP's husband. My DP has done music tuition for girls in their late teens before (as well as boys) and I wouldn't be upset by him looking them up on Facebook. I've done the same, and had a look at people's profiles. Facebook doesn't solely exist as a wank-bank.

The problem is in the OP's insecurities and her husband's reassurances not comforting her, because she doesn't trust him.

BIWI Tue 26-Feb-13 23:36:30

Bleurgh.

Really?

Why else would you be looking them up? To find out what music they like?

Southeastdweller Tue 26-Feb-13 23:38:39

zaph Why would you want to look them up!?

AnyFucker Tue 26-Feb-13 23:41:09

Good Lord...do people really spend their time looking up teenagers on FB ?

Whatever for ?

I don't even look ex boyfriends up on FB and i thought that was what it mostly for

If I caught my H looking up 18yo girls on FB, I would think he had undergone a frontal lobotomy in his lunch hour

LittleEdie Tue 26-Feb-13 23:42:50

No I don't, but I wouldn't think much of it. Curiosity, nosiness etc. normal human stuff.

AnyFucker Tue 26-Feb-13 23:44:57

this bloke wasn't "nosy" about the male student

funny, that

BIWI Tue 26-Feb-13 23:47:56

Thank fuck for that, AnyFucker - clearly my son is 'safe'. But what if I was the parent of one of the girls?

I think some of you are seriously deluded about what is going on here, and I can only assume that you don't have children, you only have very young children, or you are also men doing this kind of thing.

LittleEdie Tue 26-Feb-13 23:58:01

I think the girls are safe. What do you think is going to happen?

Zaphiro Tue 26-Feb-13 23:59:56

I think it's more a generational thing, in the politest possible way... I have used Facebook since my late teens and it's quite normal to look people up when you meet them. That's the case whether they're young, old, male or female. For instance I've looked up a lot of people I've met through work. And 'whatever for?' - well, I guess the same reason people use MN. Time wasting.

If I found out that my landlord had looked at my photos, I'd assume he'd be looking to see if I was regularly tagged at house parties/throwing up/doing anything disreputable. I'd also assume he wanted to see if the house was in any of the photos so he could see it in a non-house-inspection state.

If he wanted to wank over the girl students, would it not be more likely that he'd look up the one he fancied and not bother with the rest? Or look through their friends at anyone with a bikini profile picture?

FWIW I'm not saying, in the OP's situation, that she's being stupid to be upset. OP and her husband clearly have issues and she needs support. But the act itself is far from horrific imo and it'd be a mistake to blame the current upset on the act rather than the underlying problems.

AnyFucker Wed 27-Feb-13 00:08:18

Zaph, perhaps there is a "generational" thing here in recognising that this act and current upset are parts of a pattern of behaviour that don't instil much trust in a partner (said in the politest possible way, of course)

and the two protagonists here are presumably around the same age (old enough to be the parents of these girls ?), so there should be no "generational" divergence between them, which is really the crux of the issue

BIWI Wed 27-Feb-13 00:15:09

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

BIWI Wed 27-Feb-13 00:16:48

LittleEdie - why do you think the girls are safe?

Why do you not think it's worrying that the landlord is checking them out?

What do you think might happen the next time he visits them in their house? When he has learnt more about them from their FB pages?

How do you know they are safe?

AnyFucker Wed 27-Feb-13 00:17:34

...and why would he wait until after they have moved in to check if they are "trustworthy" ?

LittleEdie Wed 27-Feb-13 00:24:10

Look, I'm not really saying that he doesn't fancy them. He probably does. That doesn't render these girls unsafe. Why would it?

Zaphiro Wed 27-Feb-13 00:26:23

No need to get upset! Are you friends with many students in rented accommodation on Facebook? As I said in my previous post he might have been looking for the house in their tagged photos for signs of big parties, mess, damage, additional people living there, pets, candles - anything dangerous or that may break the conditions of their tenancy.

BIWI Wed 27-Feb-13 00:26:49

Really? Are you for real?

He is their landlord. It means he gets to go round there and visit them whenever he wants.

Wouldn't you feel that would be a bit creepy?

Zaphiro Wed 27-Feb-13 00:28:49

No, it means he gets to go round there after 48hrs notice provided to all tenants, in most contracts. I'm pretty sure the OP hasn't implied her husband is a predatory rapist.

BIWI Wed 27-Feb-13 00:29:15

If so, Zaphiro, why is he not checking out the boy?

AnyFucker Wed 27-Feb-13 00:31:05

I don't have an opinion on if he "fancies" them. Men fancy women all the time, and vice versa

What I think is dodgy though, is he is choosing to connect fantasy (because these girls would never be sexually interested in him) and reality by specifically targeting these girls online that are in a vulnerable position in relation to him

I can see I am unable to convince you though, Edie, and thank you for not being quite as condescendingly ageist as your fellow supporter of his right to perve over teenage girls, so I shall wish you a good night smile

LittleEdie Wed 27-Feb-13 00:31:43

You can check people out without it meaning you want to rape them you know! confused

LittleEdie Wed 27-Feb-13 00:32:15

Night night grin

Zaphiro Wed 27-Feb-13 00:41:24

Here's a few ideas for why he didn't check out the boy:

Perhaps the girls have unusual names and he couldn't remember the boy's.
Perhaps the boy has an unusual name and he couldn't spell it.
Perhaps he only met the boy briefly and couldn't remember his name.
Perhaps the boy's profile is private, and the OP got his name wrong when searching.
Perhaps he thought the boy wouldn't get up to any trouble, whereas the 'young and pretty girls' seemed more likely to.
Perhaps he happened to know the boy isn't moving in until later.
Perhaps the girls mentioned a house-warming party and the boy was going to be away.

The OP asks why he would be spying on them. Imo there are other potential reasons except that he wanted to perve on them. As I said before, if he's looking for girls to perve on it'd be pretty easy to look through their friends lists and click on anyone with a bikini profile pic.

I'm sorry that you think I'm being condescendingly ageist. If I rented a student house out I would certainly monitor it on FB if I could. I have seen enough 'X's house party' albums with pictures of vomit up the walls to think it'd be a good idea!

perceptionreality Wed 27-Feb-13 00:43:22

I think I would be far more upset about a partner looking up specific images of women in underwear than looking at porn. That would definitely make me feel rubbish too!

The FB thing, I am not sure. Were there actually many photos of the students that he could have accessed? I doubt there are any in underwear. FB is one of those things where it's fun to spy on other people for no particular reason - so that may be innocent.

slhilly Wed 27-Feb-13 00:51:08

I'm finding this thread quite weird. I just can't see how this level of incident could possibly warrant breaking up with a DH of 20 years. So far as I can read it, it's a suspicion of secretive looking-with-lust that might mean the DH has continued a previous pattern of similar behaviour despite such behaviour upsetting his DW.

In my time with my DP, we've each done things that we know would upset the other, sometimes openly and sometimes secretively. They've involved lust, money, the DCs, the PILs, and more besides. It's led to screaming rows from time to time, but neither of us has wanted to end the relationship over these things. They seem to me in retrospect to be more grave than what's described by the OP (e.g. hiding a financial problem of a few hundred pounds, indulging a DC against the express wishes of the other parent, not being open about arguments with DM/DF re DP, etc); but they never seemed sufficiently serious to warrant ending a fundamentally loving relationship. What they did appear to be were indications of our need to work on our relationship and our own behaviours - and acknowledge our own human frailties.

I guess neither me nor my DP would have lasted long in a relationship with many of the other posters on here! Makes me glad we found each other...

perceptionreality Wed 27-Feb-13 00:59:31

One thing to consider though is that if you look at a profile, you appear on that person's 'people you may know' list. I am almost sure this happens. Ok, if you have a mutual friend but if it's your landlord alarm bells would ring if I didn't have email address!

FergusSingsTheBlues Wed 27-Feb-13 01:00:51

Well, im a LL, rent to students often and ALWAYS look them up. Its a very good way to double check. Ive had my house trashed once too often, and the information is in the public domain.

perceptionreality Wed 27-Feb-13 01:05:32

What can you find out about your house though? They must have wide open privacy settings.

BIWI Wed 27-Feb-13 09:14:16

Fergus - but presumably you look all of them up? Not just the ones from the particular gender that you are interested in.

Cuddlemedolly Wed 27-Feb-13 09:58:34

Thank you for all of your comments. I would just like to emphasise that no way is my dh a threat of any kind to the students.

Firstly, yes he has a bit of history in looking at soft porn and he clearly knows my feelings on this. Just because he does this (as a lot of men do) does not mean everytime he looks at a woman he is being creepy. I have never ever seen him behave in a letchy way in front of women in 20 years.

He is adamant that he checked their fb profiles to see what they were like. He is pretty sure he looked at the fb profile of the boy, but ths wasn't done via the search but via the fb page and so wouldn't show up on his activity search. He searched for 2 of the 3 girls by fb search and found the other boy and girl via there age. He said he quickly looked through their pages to double check and be nosey that they were going to be good tenants. He only did ths once and for a matter of seconds and hasn't returned to their pages since (this is true). In previous years students have actually sent friend requests to him, but he has always rejected these.

He admits it looks bad, but he didn't think of how it looked until I brought it up I.e a midde aged man looking at fb profile pictures of young women. Whereas he said he saw it as a landlord double checking the tenants and their behaviour. We get students through the university and you often have to take them on face value. If I had looked at the male students, would this make me creepy? Although I accept that men have to be more careful.

I probably wouldn't have been so upset if things hadnt been so strained lately. A new baby and him looking at soft porn, with his history of mild dishonesty has made things difficult. I am feeling vulnerable and so interpret things in the worst way possible.

Yes he was very stupid not to think of how it looked, but that does not make him a dodgy, perverted man.

He is still away from home, I honestly think he is a broken man at the moment. He thinks his marriage is in tatters, when really it isn't about the act but him not thinking to be open and honest. It's like he has no filter on to recognise what is inappropriate.

I am not excusing his behaviour, I feel very down at the moment. I miss him and he is otherwise a wonderful dh and loving father. I really don't know where to go from here.

LittleEdie Wed 27-Feb-13 10:12:29

I feel for your DH if looking at a couple of girls on FB can leave his marriage in tatters.

KnittedCharacter Wed 27-Feb-13 10:12:40

Sounds like it could be feasible then. Only u will know if he sounds genuine. go with ur gut instinct hun

FergusSingsTheBlues Wed 27-Feb-13 10:16:11

No, to be honest...to be totally honest, If theres an obvious geeky type, then I dont bother. Judgy? Maybe, but I can spot the shy and retiring types a mile off (maybe the guy was an obvious geek?).

And each time I do it, I do feel as though its a bit stalky.

I honestly wouldnt be having a cow over it based purely on gender...i just think, OP, it taps into pre existing insecurities.

Cuddlemedolly Wed 27-Feb-13 10:19:36

Edie, this isn't just about the fb searches. It is about his inability to be open and honest. It is a reoccurring theme whether it is about money, porn etc.

As I have said, if this was an isolated incident I prob wouldn't have given t too much thought. But he has history with being secretive (not just with porn) and so any unusual behaviour seems suspicious, which makes it difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Zaphiro Wed 27-Feb-13 11:02:48

Hi Cuddlemedolly, glad you're back and haven't been put off by the infighting!

You mention his inability to be open and honest. What would you like him to have done differently this time?

It sounds to me like you're utterly exhausted, hormonal, and perhaps not thinking things through clearly. You sound like you love your DH very much. Is there any way he or family could look after the children so you could have a good sleep and think about what you want?

differentnameforthis Wed 27-Feb-13 11:08:10

There is no way on fb of seeing who has looked at your profile, nor can you see a history of people you have looked up previously. So how do you know he has looked them up?

differentnameforthis Wed 27-Feb-13 11:12:44

Well pardon me, Op. You sure can see who has been searched for! This must be new. I apologise for my comment.

BIWI Wed 27-Feb-13 12:43:06

Can you tell if someone has looked at your profile?

Cuddlemedolly Wed 27-Feb-13 13:39:26

There is no way of checking if anyone has been on your profile. If you don't want people to look who are not your friends, you can easily keep your profile private.

Cuddlemedolly Wed 27-Feb-13 13:46:23

Thanks for your input Zaphiro. In regards to him being open nd honest, he should think about how hs behaviour can be interpreted. When there are issues re trust in a relationship, that person has to be so much more aware of their behaviour and how it can be seen. I will prob never know if he was looking at the profiles in an inappropriate way, but most student photos are of groups messing about so it is unlikely he would find anything to perv at.

It's whether you take the word of someone who you know is a great dh, but shows a repeated behaviour of low level dishonesty. After having dc3, he should be making me feel loved and secure. His actions don't always show that.

He is coming round tonight. What do I say to him? Am I being led a line? Am I paranoid? Has he overstepped boundaries?

maleview70 Wed 27-Feb-13 13:48:38

The daily Mail has a soft porn page?

What on earth is that? Their readers would be outraged!

I think you are overdoing it. He has had his lesson now and if he comes back then you say " right you have seen how upset this makes me. This is your last warning. Do it again even once and you are out"

That should then bring him to his senses.

He does sound a bit pervy with the 18 year olds but the other stuff is more disrespectful to your feelings than anything else.

BIWI Wed 27-Feb-13 14:31:04

I was more worried about people I've been checking out finding out that I've been checking them out, Cuddlemedolly! blush

perceptionreality Wed 27-Feb-13 14:34:21

'There is no way of checking if anyone has been on your profile.'

That is the official line FB has to take, but I don't believe it personally. I am almost certain that if you click on a profile you then appear on the 'people you may know' list. I have experimented to see if this is the case and it appears to be.

LittleEdie Wed 27-Feb-13 14:35:59

My ex DH got a bit giddy once when we thought some female students were moving in next door. He wouldn't check them out on FB because he is old, but if he had I'd have done the same thing I did anyway, which is snort derisively and laugh at him.

I think you're being a bit unrealistic if you think he'll never find anyone attractive again other than you. Do you really want him to be honest with you about this?

If he's only looked at them once by the way, that does seem to support his story, it's not like he's obsessing over them.

LittleEdie Wed 27-Feb-13 14:37:41

Hmm, should have put grin after 'old' to show intended humour and not cause offence!

Zaphiro Wed 27-Feb-13 16:14:30

I think you're over- egging it. You're asking him not to do anything that may or may not upset you. From the sounds of his reaction, he didn't realise this would upset you. So it's unenforceable and open to misunderstanding.

Are you asking him to never look up girls in bikinis or anyone female on Facebook? That's enforceable, but really controlling. Imagine if a woman posted saying her DP was so jealous that she wasn't allowed to use Facebook, even with no history of cheating or inappropriate messaging - there'd be a chorus of "leave the bastard," wouldn't there?

Cuddlemedolly Wed 27-Feb-13 16:35:18

God I know I sound controlling. We have been together 20 years after meeting at college. We have only slept with each other and so yes I do find it difficult if he finds other women attractive. I don't have a problem if I know about it, it's more if he does it in secret.

I hate him looking at porn, especially when he says he doesn't and I then find out he's surfing the web for semi naked women just weeks after the birth of dd would make most women feel rubbish?

I was unsure if him looking at the profile pages of young women we know was linked to this. It's not nice to think of your dh flicking through photos of 18 year old girls even if there was no lusty intention.

He has a habit of promising to be one person and then doing something different in private to save my feelings be it money or porn. So it is difficult to recognise the truth as his lies sound the same as his truth. This is his pattern of behaviour.

I probably sound bonkers, I need to trust him and he needs to make me feel secure he is telling the truth. Bloody hell marriage is hard!

Littleturkish Wed 27-Feb-13 16:51:11

I don't think you sound controlling- I think you sound honest. I talked your situation over with my DP and both of us agreed that we would feel uncomfortable with the other behaving like that.

You've made it clear where your boundaries are- and he's crossed them, again and again and again. It's easy to do the 'surprised and upset' act. Much easier to do that then actually change your behaviour.

Escalating to perving over REAL women, young girls, that is just creepy.

I think you've done the right thing. I would do the same. I'm not saying leave him, but having the time apart allows you to think and decide how you feel. There is nothing wrong with that.

slhilly Wed 27-Feb-13 17:14:34

"We have only slept with each other and so yes I do find it difficult if he finds other women attractive. I don't have a problem if I know about it, it's more if he does it in secret."

I'm afraid I simply don't think this is healthy, for two reasons:
- I've never heard of someone who only finds their partner attractive. I think you are setting yourself up for dismay if you want him not to find other people attractive.
- You've said it's difficult for you to contemplate him finding another woman attractive and you've also said you want him to tell you when he does. Why would he deliberately tell you he finds someone else attractive and hurt you and start a difficult conversation unless that attraction was something really serious? Especially as he may well see people every day that he thinks are somewhat attractive.

I think if you want him to be more open with you, you're going to have to work on your feelings of insecurity to create an environment in which he doesn't feel guilty about what is going on in his head, which he quite likely dismisses to himself as nothing meaningful anyway.

differentnameforthis Fri 01-Mar-13 04:43:40

perceptionreality

There is absolutely NO way that you can tell who has looked at your profile. No application will ever be allowed that information & fb themselves have not programmed a way of telling you who has looked at your profile. When you come up on lists, it is usually a friends list & of course you have looked at their profile, they are your friend!

The apps that say they can do it just choose random names from your friends list!

lottieandmia Fri 01-Mar-13 19:15:49

There aren't any apps that accurately let you see who looked at your profile on FB, but I have my suspicions that facebook send you people who have looked at your profile in your 'people you may know' on the right side of your profile. There is no way to prove or disprove it.

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