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I'm pretty sure DH has had a fling. What do I do now?

(154 Posts)
HmmmWhatAMess Tue 19-Feb-13 07:42:39

Firstly I have namechanged. I haven't told a soul about this and from my posts under another name I could be identified.

Ok, DH works in the UK but regularly travels abroad. I have never had any reason not to trust him, whilst here and when he was away. He's always been a good dad - although sometimes has a short fuse. With me if has always been my biggest fan, even though we have had some tough times adjusting to becoming a family.

This time if was gone longer than normal and tbh I was a bit concerned how he would cope without the dc's and I. I needn't have worried. In fact he even said on the phone how much if was enjoying it/been out drinking and clubbing with 4 girls from his hotel (alone) and also mostly with the group of men that he was working with. I encouraged him to make the most of his evenings because due to childcare he doesn't get out much. Also, I have a close male friend so I thought it couldn't be one rule for one and not the other.

So if has come back. Has about 5 photos on his phone of him and a young woman. A few are close ups of her face (in one she is wearing his hat). Others are taken in the hotel she works in (the one in which he stayed) with their arms around each other. He showed me these saying he had nothing to hide.

His phone hasn't left his side for the week that he has been back. I have discovered that he wiped messages from his work mobile that he sent to his personal and left just one with her email address on. If has also signed up to WhatsApp and deleted all old texts. He has received 120 and sent 65.

HmmmWhatAMess Tue 19-Feb-13 07:45:58

Sorry. Posted too soon.

The names in his phone are men's names. Not hers.

What do I do now? We have 2 dc's that are young. We are both in our early 30s and married for 13 years. Could this be the end? Should it be the end?

Tbh I could cope with a snog or even a drunken fumble. But to keep contact like this makes me think emotions are involved and that's worrying.

Sorry for the ramble.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 19-Feb-13 08:13:44

You have to tell him that you're not happy with all of this and it looks very suspicious. I don't think what you're describing is 100% cast-iron proof of an affair but it sounds like inappropriate behaviour for a married man. If you've known him for a long time you should be able to read in his face if he's lying or being evasive when you ask about it.

HmmmWhatAMess Tue 19-Feb-13 08:18:22

He's lying to me. I can tell with eye contact alone. I didn't sleep a wink last night as everything was slotting into place. He looked at me this morning and started crying but had a convenient excuse of something else.

I just don't feel ready so say something yet. I just feel numb.

ComradeJing Tue 19-Feb-13 08:31:26

Oh hmmm that doesn't sound good.

It sounds like the best thing is to have a frank and honest chat with him. Perhaps you can nip it in the bud and deal with it now instead of waiting for evidence and the affair-emotional or physical- getting worse.

Best of luck.

I would go in hard - I'm afraid. Appointment with solicitors, csa website, etc. prepare for the worst.
Sent 65 texts? I bet you've had 5 in that time. Plus, the hotels, intimate pics, deletions etc, etc. Too late to nip in the bud I would think.
I'm sorry.
I would say that I know - get him to come clean - and then, whether he does or not, get him out. you sound like you have great instincts and you know him inside out...for now tho he has to feel the consequences...

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 19-Feb-13 09:22:29

Your only chance of saving the marriage and forcing the issue is to confront him and say you know he has been cheating on you and that you deserve to be treated with love and respect. Then ask him to go away for a few days to give you time and space to consider your options.

LOSS is the only thing that motivates cheaters - feeling the consequences is the only thing that may bring him to his senses.

If he really wants to be committed to the marriage then he will have to fight for you and work hard - telling you the truth and taking full responsibility for his actions.

People are more likely to value things that they have fought hard for and your actions will increase his respect for you.

Hissy Tue 19-Feb-13 09:34:37

Absolutely what ^ they said!

He won't see what he's potentially lost until he sees it in the cold hard light of day.

bunnyearsahoy Tue 19-Feb-13 14:02:35

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HmmmWhatAMess Tue 19-Feb-13 14:18:21

Thanks for your advice. I know you are all right. Part of me feels like it was just a matter of time. Being together for 15 years from young is bound to create some issues. I think what upsets me more is the fact emotions are obviously involved.

I have discovered how to access his deleted messages on WhatsApp and will try to do this tonight when he is sleeping. I feel that I'm justified in doing this and when I know exactly what has happened I can compare his account and measure his truthfulness.

I will also make an appointment with a solicitor and cab to discuss my options. For once in our life everything was going along swimmingly. Our fertility problems have been dealt with successfully, our careers are taking off (mine slowly eve to the dc's), but still there is now money in the bank. I've made such an effort to love him - when at times I haven't wanted to / had the energy to - and its been going so well.

What about custody of the dc's ? Is it automatically 50/50? If it is them that would be a reason for me to stay.

How can I compete with a beautifully exotic girl, 10 years younger than me, probably more exciting in bed, not haggard from the kids/work/studying? I'm never going to. S**t.

HmmmWhatAMess Tue 19-Feb-13 14:22:00

I work 16 hours a week. Not sure how much help I would get.

Where has my dependable husband gone?

I haven't even cried yet. I feel like booking him a one way ticket to the other side of the world. They could do whatever the hell they wanted then.

NotSoNervous Tue 19-Feb-13 14:23:09

So sorry op. I think you need to confront him and try and get everything in the open.

You shouldn't have to compete with anyone, your his wife and he shouldn't be looking elsewhere

ErikNorseman Tue 19-Feb-13 14:32:40

Access will be as close to 50/50 as feasible, as long as it is in their interests. If you currently look after them during the days when he works then that will continue. It depends on their ages etc.

AnyFucker Tue 19-Feb-13 14:36:29

He looked at me this morning and started crying but had a convenient excuse of something else.

Yes, I believe it's gone too far to nip in the bud.

Someone said "go in hard". Yes, I agree with that.

AnyFucker Tue 19-Feb-13 14:41:14

I don't understand the flaunting of this exciting shag he has experienced.

Something very off here.

I think he wants you to throw him out , as punishment. I think he wants to relive and continue to cultivate the frisson as the drama continues to play out, to your detriment.

I suggest you do just that. Don't hang on by the skin of your teeth to someone who has done this, but more importantly, done what he has since he came back. It's not just the infidelity, is it ? He is taking the utter piss.

HmmmWhatAMess Tue 19-Feb-13 14:52:47

The dc's are 5 and 3. I work evenings.

Your right anyfucker its not so much the act - its this remaining contact that is carrying on. Even if he didn't sleep with her, which strangely enough seems almost irrelevant, its the emotional side of it that troubles me most.

Yes, sometimes you meet strangers and have a connection. I realise that. But why can't he just of left it at that instead of trying to cultivate this sexual attraction. I say that not because I think infidelity is acceptable, its not, but to me this seems far more dangerous.

plinkyplonks Tue 19-Feb-13 14:54:40

OP - big hugs Your husband sounds like an idiot. It's not about whether you were good enough. You didn't even come into the equation. Your husband is selfish - end of.

Don't compare yourself to anyone. Forget the pictures etc... you should never of seen them and don't think about them again. This now is about creating a strong team around you to create an even better life. This behaviour is not normal in a marriage, don't try to rationalise his decision - he has placed his own selfish desires above you and your family. He's not the person you thought he was because the person you loved wouldn't do this to you and you will never (even if he came begging back tomorrow) get that trust and dh back.

This now about the future. Concentrate on yourself and your children - this is should be your priority right now. Forget about him. Think about the life you want to build for your family. In regards to access, that is really a personal decision that only you can make. Do you trust him (and who he will have around with him) with your children at this moment in time? Time to get some legal advice.

It's never nice when these things happen - but I have yet to read a thread here about a broken marriage because of the oh's behaviour that hasn't led to a happier, stronger family at the end of it. You're in control of it now and although you may not see it - this pain will end and you will be stronger, more focused and determined at the end of it.

Good luck x

WaMMaW Tue 19-Feb-13 15:22:57

I couldn't read and not reply.
OP, I am so sorry for all that you are going through right now!
Your husband needs the wake up of his life.
If he was upset already, I think he is about to break. Tell him you know, and that you need him to explain it to you. I don't think he'll deny it.
Hopefully you can get an explanation and you can move on appropriately.
Big hugs.

bunnyearsahoy Tue 19-Feb-13 15:36:21

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AnyFucker Tue 19-Feb-13 15:40:04

Bunny, I do think you need to go have a little lie down

Infidelity breaks many rules of what is acceptable behaviour, but the last time I checked it wasn't a criminal offence.

OP is showing more dignity than you are, and she is the wronged woman here, on her thread. I don't think your over-emoting is going to be remotely helpful to her.

Sallyingforth Tue 19-Feb-13 16:18:56

The more I think about this, the angrier I get.

"Calm down dear, it's only MN"
The OP has strong suspicions, and she has to work through this. She doesn't need your anger, and she certainly doesn't need to REPORT TO THE POLICE.

bunnyearsahoy Tue 19-Feb-13 16:23:38

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AnyFucker Tue 19-Feb-13 16:25:18

Who said his behaviour was acceptable? RTFT.

rhondajean Tue 19-Feb-13 16:31:56

Bunny. There is no certainty yet he has a risky had sex with the ow never mind done so without protection.

I suspect you may have emotional issues around this to deal with yourself. Your first post suggests you knew what the dh here was thinking and I believe you are projecting hugely.

Although you mean well it's not helpful to the op and you should take a step backwards for a bit.

bunnyearsahoy Tue 19-Feb-13 16:43:30

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AnyFucker Tue 19-Feb-13 16:53:45

You are a sick bunny, bunny. Do hop off.

NanaNina Tue 19-Feb-13 17:00:49

Hi there OP - I can imagine how you are feeling, and it's crap as I know from experience. I agree you need to tell him you know (or collect more evidence) and you will be able to tell from his reaction. I think the tears today were because he knows you know and is feeling hugely guilty. Some suggested sending him away for a weekend while you think things through - NO not another weekend away!

OK so let's assume he was flattered by the attention of young women and was in an usual situation and has made some kind of "connection" with 1 girl. I suspect that the photos he showed you were not the girl with whom he maybe had a fling.

Agree that bunny is possibly projecting and is not being helpful as she is ramping things up to an unecessary degree. It is not for us to take sides as all we know is a few lines of text on a screen. Have you a trusted relative or friend with whom you can confide in OP because that might help instead of it all going round and roundin your head. Oh god I know those tapes that go round in your head and somehow won't stop. It hurts.

I hope you can resolve this one way or the other, but don't take precipitate action while you are feeling so crap.

Abitwobblynow Tue 19-Feb-13 17:07:07

Anyfucker, just note the emotion of Bunny, understand that whilst it is very strong it has clearly happened to her too and hear her pain. A bit of compassion, really. (And for your information, in the land of HIV Africa they are looking at making rape whilst HIV+ homicide).

So lets all support eachother here, OK? This stuff -having your world and trust and love blown apart - is incredibly painful.

Yes OP I am afraid the crying is a real giveaway. Please show him the door (he can take the children with him, he is a good father and their crying for you might REALLY pour the water on his jets) and ask for a separation for maybe a week and then you can talk.

AgathaF Tue 19-Feb-13 17:09:24

She needs to log this with the police straight away - I can just imagine the police response if you phoned them to say that your husband may or may not have been unfaithful.

Hmm - is there any particular reason why 50/50 custody would be an issue and reason for you to stay? Apart from, obviously, missing them.

I hope you get the answers you need very soon.

AnyFucker Tue 19-Feb-13 17:09:32

Abit, the Op has enough problems without someone coming onto the thread to insinuate that her children are at risk of sexual abuse from her husband

I will not support crap like that

AnyFucker Tue 19-Feb-13 17:10:58

Abit, you need to hone your skills in spotting the hairy-handed, seriously

minecraftfansmum Tue 19-Feb-13 17:16:34

I love that saying 'don't get mad get even'. In a few years time you could look back on this and see it as a blessed release. If he's the type to be short-tempered and irritable then perhaps he's the type to be discontented and this could follow him through his life. He's having his ego stoked - very flattering. Don't see yourself as being haggard from what comes across as a very busy life. If there is a young woman involved how foolish of her to be having anything to do with a married man with children, I wonder if the novelty will wear off when reality sets in. Working 16hrs a week means you are eligible for child tax credits, working tax credits and child maintenance. Never say anything about their dad to the children always be neutral and possibly without having an old grump around

Coconutty Tue 19-Feb-13 17:22:58

Fuck off Bunny, this isn't the time or place for games, she's obviously upset.

OP until you know the truth, you will not be able to move forward. Speak to him and when you have all the facts you will be able to decide what to do next.

Sorry this has happened, sounds shit.

THERhubarb Tue 19-Feb-13 17:26:01

My radar is bleeping away with bunny. How anyone can come onto a thread like this and start to cause trouble is beyond me. Whoever they are, they are one sick fucker.

Report and ignore.

OP. Only you have the answers to this one.
It is puzzling how he would leave the photos on his phone to convince you that he has nothing to hide whilst deleting texts. Why not just delete them all? Why give you that unwelcome insight? Why text you from the hotel to tell you what a great time he is having with 4 women? What is he trying to say?

I would say that perhaps he wants to be caught out but he's deleted those telling texts so maybe not?
Who knows what is going on in his head. I certainly can't work it out.

I think you are right. You need to know what is going on so read those deleted texts once you get half a chance. Only when you have the evidence should you confront him.
Yes it is snooping but I think you have a valid reason for that. Your marriage is under threat.

If it comes to a separation then you can arrange it all without involving the courts. If you can both agree to 50:50 and resolve it amicably it will save a lot of heartache. But it may not come to that yet. Don't jump the gun. Find out what has been going on and then think about what you want before you talk to him.

This woman might only see him as a fling. After all she is probably single and she's young, why would she want to be lumbered with a married man with 2 kids? Perhaps she doesn't even know he's married. I reckon if he did try to have a full blown relationship with her it wouldn't last long.

But that's his problem, not yours. We can all go out without our partners and kids, get pissed and get laid. I bet if you arranged a weekend away with a few friends you'd probably get loads of male attention too. Most of us however just feel flattered and leave it at that. I wouldn't dream of taking a picture of any man who chats me up so that I can flaunt it to dh! That would be cruel and completely inappropriate. Your male friend is presumably someone you have known for years as a platonic friend. If you went out with him would you take a picture of yourself with your arms draped around him for your h to see? Of course not!

Goodness knows what he is trying to prove here but either way he's being a dick. Be kind to yourself and remember, this was completely HIS choice, nothing has forced him to act this way.

I hope tomorrow brings a resolution of sorts.

Fairypants Tue 19-Feb-13 17:32:41

I'm afraid it does sound suspicious. I would suggest you think carefully before looking up those messages though- from experience, trying to find evidence can be quite addictive and unhelpful. If i suspect there is something to find but don't find it, I take it as proof of guilt that the evidence was hidden (being innocent is not an option!!!).
If you trust your ability to winkle the truth out of him with questioning, I would say you have enough just based on the pictures and weird behaviour to ask what's going on.
As an optimist, it is possible to put this behaviour down to horrible guilt over a snog or giving a number out - the likelihood of this depends on your DH but I think I would probably behave a bit like that if I had snogged someone whilst drunk.
Good luck op. x

Sallyingforth Tue 19-Feb-13 17:43:49

OP You are right to look at ALL the options.
But when I re-read your posts it seems there are many positive aspects to your relationship. His tears, if genuine, suggest that he is sorry/ashamed for whatever it is that happened. That might be a basis for a reconciliation if you are prepared to try. Certainly you need to have a very long talk about what's gone wrong - perhaps with an intermediary?
Whatever you decide, good luck!

minecraftfansmum Tue 19-Feb-13 21:45:52

Another way of seeing this - I have a friend whose partner was her first boyfriend, she had her first child with him at nineteen years of age and after ten years or so he had an affair with a girl from his work. However my friend and her partner managed to get through this and put it behind them - they are still together and their relationship appears to work well.

In your case maybe it could be seen as a 'wobble' - it can be so easy perhaps to get carried away in a situation which contrasts with the normal day to day routines. It could be just a case of flirtatious behaviour in clubs and as fairypants has said he is flailing about, guilty and upset - there might not be anything wrong in your relationship together.

My friend did stipulate though that her partner change his working conditions so he would not to be in the same situation again - in case she may fret that it might re-occur. They are both happy with this arrangement and have put it behind them. My friends are in their late 30s now, they had another child and seem to be solid.

Abitwobblynow Wed 20-Feb-13 04:41:57

Abit, you need to hone your skills in spotting the hairy-handed, seriously - yup, need to adjust to bi-focals [shame]

HmmmWhatAMess Wed 20-Feb-13 12:20:11

Just wrote an epic post and lost it. Damn.

I got his phone last night and couldn't back-up the bloody deleted mesages. I had worked myself up so much that I woke him up and demanded to know what was going on. He was quite taken aback although knew the girl that I was referring to.

He said that she was a girl that worked in the bar of the hotel that he stayed in and over the two weeks they got to know each other through friendly chit-chat. They went clubbing after a week - in the company of others (when his mates went home he was with the four girls, her being one of them) and this is where she expressed her interest in him.

He spent time in her company every evening after dinner whilst having a few pints and her working. On his last day he met her when when was off-duty and he took her to Starbucks for coffee. This is where three of the photos were taken. They are close-ups of her face and in one she has his hat on (which he put there). I told him that he doesn't have photos of me like this.

He maintains that there was no physical contact throughout this time although she was willing. He said that he liked her company and did find her attractive but did not act on it because he loves me and has too much to loose. He said the messages were mainly like a conversation (so I guess that would explain the high volume) although he understands that it is excessive and that they were not of an emotional/sexual content. She did express that she missed him. He said that he deleted these messages because he didn't want be to know that she missed him and that he didn't want me to be suspicious.

WRT the photos. I told him that I was unhappy with these. I was unhappy with the pose (taken in the hotel bar) and that they looked like they were on honeymoon rather than 'friends'. He said that nothing physical happened so he didn't feel the need to hide it. I told him that he kept the photos of her for memories and his wank-bank. No other reason.

I told him that it wasn't so much the physical aspect of it that I wouldn't have a problem with (although this didn't happen), it's the emotions that get involved. I don't want him to fall in love with someone else. A regrettable snog on a dancefloor is not ideal but I could completely move on from that. It's the prolonged contact back in the UK that I have an issue with.

With his crying yesterday morning. I do believe that it was partly to do with this. Although delayed jetlag and two young children, combined with a recent bereavement may have contributed.

I am not going to ask him to leave. Partly because I believe that he was being 'friendly' in these messages and not getting emotionally attached and also because his family are 400 miles away. I initially told him that I would keep his phone today to assess the nature of her messages but i'm not going to play games. He has taken it to work today and she has already messaged him and he severed contact. I will not check his phone unless I have reason to believe, but I have told him that I will not hesitate to look again. I will check his phone later to see the conversation but that's it. I'm not going to get obsessive over this.

So I guess I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Possibly very naively, but it's the way that I am. Although I have told him that he is skating on very thin ice. In the UK he has very little to no opportunity to behave like this so I am not too concerned, but there is to be no secrecy now.

I think it's also because I understand sexual attraction. I would be lying if I said that I haven't found men attractive/wanted something more, but you have to walk away. He agreed that it really stroked his ego. I bet it did. Now he needs to get a grip and put his ego to one side.

I wanted to thank you all for your help and advice - even though I haven't really heeded it. I appreciate the time that you have taken to respond and I have taken it all in. Hopefully this is the end of this saga. I feel that he has been well and truly shaken and hope that I one day I won't eat my words. thanks

THERhubarb Wed 20-Feb-13 12:32:03

Look, you know your dh and we don't.

Tbh that would explain why he didn't delete the photos but did delete the chat. If he was having an affair or had more to hide then why would he keep the photos? Surely he would hide it all?

I do agree though that he should not have encourage her knowing that she had feelings for him. Once she told him that he should have walked away and not taken her out for meals - that's just stringing her along. I can understand that he wanted his ego stroking a bit more but he has a wife and family at home and you don't play with fire when you are a loyal family man. He has basically encouraged her and led her to believe that she's in with a chance.

I admire you for staying in control. Your dh is a very lucky man. I'm glad he realised that he had so much to lose if he carried on acting like a dick. No doubt he is counting his blessings now.

You still need to chat about loyalty, respect and trust. He is away a lot and you need to know that you can trust that he'll not do this again. What more does this man want? He has a loyal and loving wife at home who gives him plenty of space, support and encouragement. He has 2 brilliant kids. A good career. Plenty of time to himself. Why on earth would he want to ruin all that?

You did well. I hope it all works out for you both.

NanaNina Wed 20-Feb-13 12:36:15

I think the OP is saying that she does not want the thread to continue, but has thanked people for their posts. Is that right OP? If it is then I think we should respect her view on the matter.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 20-Feb-13 12:44:19

You may find this link useful when discussing boundaries:

www.shirleyglass.com/quizfriendship.php

Good luck.

perceptionreality Wed 20-Feb-13 12:54:27

Has he ever cheated before? If not then I think it's reasonable to give the benefit of the doubt but, TBH I would have a very hatrd time believing nothing physical happened if she is still texting now.

izzyizin Wed 20-Feb-13 13:28:18

They are close-ups of her face and in one she has his hat on (which he put there)

Putting his hat on this young woman in a one-to-one setting denotes a certain intimacy which belies his words.

Everything you've said about his behaviour since his return indicates that he had an intense physical affair with this young woman and it was his intention to maintain contact with a view to meeting up with her again.

I suspect he'll buy himself another phone today and either keep it at work or well hidden from your view.

perceptionreality Wed 20-Feb-13 13:34:28

I'm afraid I think Izzy is right. Sometimes people mix lies with the truth because it ultimately makes the lies more believable.

MrsFrisbyMouse Wed 20-Feb-13 13:36:50

Hmmmm. I have been with my H since I was 17. Some 23 years now! In that time we have both had 'complications' in the form of emotional/physical affairs.

What I can honestly say is that they had very little to do with anything about each other and our relationship, but were very definite reflections of issues in ourselves. Things like childhood issues, low self esteem, family bereavements, classic midlife crisis etc.

At each point we came back together, reassessed our own relationship, and supported each other to deal with the underlying issues. I suspect your H doesn't know why he did this, I suspect there is still more to the story than he is letting on. But I would also suspects this is pointing to some big issues in his own life that he isn't dealing with. He is also now facing the fact that he is acting in ways that don't fit with his self image of good father, husband family man. Trying to reconcile our image of ourselves as a good person, when we have done something destructive and hurtful is really difficult.

it will be difficult, but you and him can find a way through this and be able to create something stronger. But only if he is able to self reflect and commit to working out his problems.

Sitting here today, I find it hard to reconnect with my younger self who made all those silly mistakes, but I know that my marriage now is stronger and more real and stable because we were able to accept that people do make mistakes and you really can learn from them.

Good luck

Doha Wed 20-Feb-13 13:38:01

I think he has managed to worm his way out but l don't believe a word of it- not for one moment.
I wish you luck OP because l think you will need lots of it. I wouldn't trust him as far as l could throw him.
I think you should go for an STI check to be safe

Technoviking Wed 20-Feb-13 13:39:08

OP, sorry I haven't read any other posts yet.

The only thing you can do is ask him. If you don't believe him you say "I don't believe you and until you can convince me otherwise, I can't trust you. If I can't trust you, it's over and you'd best find somewhere else to live.".

If he genuinely had done nothing, he'd move heaven and earth to prove it. If not, then he won't bother. No point trying to work it out or find evidence, you'll just age yourself with worry.

Technoviking Wed 20-Feb-13 13:40:35

One other thing, sorry.

The cheated often worries about the repercussions of throwing the cheater out. What will happen to them, the family, the house, money, etc. The cheater never thinks about any of this, they are purely selfish. Then act all sorry for themselves when caught.

carmenelectra Wed 20-Feb-13 13:41:31

Oh god, sounds like another sucker.

If muy dp went abroad and took 4 young birds clubbing and all the other shit this bloke did,he would be forgiven so quickly(or at all).

Its the usual case of op back peddling and defending her man when faced with critical comments.

HmmmWhatAMess Wed 20-Feb-13 13:59:04

NanaNina I am completely happy with this thread to continue and I thank and acknowledge everyones contribution so far -however hard it may be to read. And no, perception, he has not had an affair so far to my knowledge.

Izzy, the hat thing bothered me too. It's just a stupid baseball cap, but that does show a level of intimacy and crossing boundaries. He unfairly led her on, and kept doing it for his own gratification and as much as I would like to dislike this girl she is probably perfectly nice and got swept along with it. I also told him that money and a UK VISA was/is also on her agenda too.

But Mrs Frisby, your post totally resonates with me. We met and married so young. Too young. It's been a f**cking long, hard slog at times. Six years to wait for children/him being the sole earner while I gave up my job to go to uni/us constantly changing as people and not at the same time... I have flaws, I know I do. I realise that marriage is all about give and take, but ultimately respect. I believe that he was in a beautiful place, beautiful people, living like a millionaire and momentarily lost his grip on reality and respect. I think I have given him the crash landing that he needs and only time will tell.

I am not a jealous person and do not intend to be. He has come close to p**ssing on his chips and he needs to learn from that and we move on stronger.

Thanks Rhubarb.

Technoviking Wed 20-Feb-13 14:03:13

Reading the rest of this thread, if I'd done what OPs "dp" did, I'd expect to find my bollocks in a glass next to the bed when I woke up. And my clothes in bags.

OP, he knows you're a soft touch so will play on that to get his cake and eat it.

HmmmWhatAMess Wed 20-Feb-13 14:03:35

carmen I am not back peddling and I don't feel that I am defending his actions as they are not acceptable. Maybe I am a sucker but life is not always black and white.

I am trying to think of the bigger picture, one that we can learn and move on from.

Technoviking Wed 20-Feb-13 14:05:33

The trouble is OP, is that YOU are thinking of the bigger picture. HE never has and clearly doesn't. If he gets let off, he never will either.

AnyFucker Wed 20-Feb-13 14:06:58

How is he going to learn ?

Because you told him to ?

He hasn't lost a thing...and only loss will properly instigate a true change in attitude and beliefs

at the moment, he feels entitled to act like an oversexed single man when away from you

so, you've got angry and shouted at him

extracted a couple of easy promises and swallowed some outrageous pisstaking, a gutfull of evasions and some gaslighting

he hasn't learned one damn thing...except how to be a bit more careful next time and that there are no consequences for disrespecting his wife so profoundly

I feel bad for you, love

SizzleSazz Wed 20-Feb-13 14:13:57

Hmm - can he retrieve the text messages to show this was just a conversation flowing on from evening bar convos? This might give his story a bit more 'credibility' and help stop the 'i wonder what all those text messages were about' questions going round in your head.

If you are going to move on I think you need to 100% believe him (with whatever 'evidence' that entails). Only 99% and there is an ongoing nagging doubt sad

Good luck and i hope you can both work through it

perceptionreality Wed 20-Feb-13 14:20:46

OP - this has f all to do with you being 'jealous' - stop putting the onus on yourself, please! It doesn't matter how young you married, his behaviour was totally disrespectful to you. If this were me, I don't think I could forgive it even in a man who I had been with for a much shorter time with less invested than you. With the lack of hard evidence and no previous form I can see why you would want to forgive and move on but are you just delaying a repeat of this months down the line?

If I were you I would keep on snooping. Use every avenue available to check up on his actions.

And the OW doesn't sound nice to me at all. What decent woman keeps on chasing a married man with children when she could easily find someone single?

minecraftfansmum Wed 20-Feb-13 14:27:29

He could be feeling extremely guilty, at sea and is flailing around with pictures, messages etc he may have been carried away within a different setting from the norm - I have a friend who went through a similar situation and has also been with her partner from a young age, after a tumultuous time they patched things up and now (several years after the affair) have a good relationship. Since the affair was with someone from his workplace he has now changed his working hours - a change which has suited them both. It may be just a 'wobble' and perhaps you can move on from this?

Technoviking Wed 20-Feb-13 14:37:56

Also you talk about "we can move on". You won't, though. He's planted that seed and whenever he's away you'll wonder. He may behave, or he may get better at covering his tracks.

Good luck OP, that's aimed at you and not your DH.

THERhubarb Wed 20-Feb-13 14:49:48

Hang on a sec here. The OP has confronted her dh and tbh his excuses do sound plausible enough.

He has never cheated on her before or behaved like this, ever. He didn't delete the pictures on his phone, he even showed them to her. That doesn't smack of a man who has had an affair.

She knows her dh. They have been married for twenty odd years. We don't know him or the situation from adam. We've just read some brief details on the internet.

I'm happy to accept what the OP has said. She seems to have her head screwed on, she says she can tell when her dh is lying and I believe her. She's not found anything else to say that he's screwing around. No other mobile phone, nothing. He knows she checks his messages and she will check their conversation they had today.

Yes he might be a first class prick who has shagged around and doesn't give a crap, but I think the OP might have figured that out by now after so many years of marriage. Perhaps she hasn't, perhaps she is a deluded fool but she doesn't quite come across like that either.

Sometimes we are too quick to scream LEAVE HIM THE BASTARD! When actually, if the roles were reversed we might act differently too. It's all too easy to scream at a laptop but not quite the same when it's happening in real life to you.

I don't think that making the OP feel even worse in this situation will help. She's made her decision and as strangers on t'interweb we should respect that. It's not as if she's drip-feeding or recounting stories of how he's had past affairs but he's now a changed man. If she comes back on in the future to say that she's found more texts then by all means, let's shout LEAVE THE BASTARD! But until then I think we need to give this situation the benefit of doubt and wish the OP luck.

perceptionreality Wed 20-Feb-13 14:59:28

But Rhubarb, earlier up the thread OP says she could tell he was lying if I'm not mistaken?

I also can understand her wanting to give him the benefit but it is odd that she is still texting him now imo, and also why would he have cried about it if he didn't have sex with her?

perceptionreality Wed 20-Feb-13 15:01:37

Is it possible he kept the pictures because he wanted them for himself and then made sure he showed them to not look suspicious? Cheaters often get caught with text messages because they keep them as they want to look back on them iyswim. That could possibly be the case here...

AnyFucker Wed 20-Feb-13 15:02:00

I don't see any screaming, Rhubs < fiddles with hearing aid > Nobody has said LTB (permanently) either.

I see people who don't believe him, for very good reasons. He has treated OP appallingly, and in that oddly abusive way of doing it all in open view

Mentionitis, openly sharing pictures that were pretty intimate, going on about what a fabulous time he had with this attractive young woman, the oversharing that he could have had her, but didn't . The only thing he hasn't shared are the messages between them since he landed back home

The answers are in those messages

Any more he shows OP now are utterly meaningless, because they arrive after the object of his fascination has been warned off, or at least sent more underground.

Everybody wishes OP well.

CuriousMama Wed 20-Feb-13 15:40:32

He sounds immature to me. And very disrespectful.

But you have a lot to lose so will allow him to act like a single bloke when he's away.

You sound absolutely lovely by the way.

AnyFucker Wed 20-Feb-13 15:42:53

Yup. Much too lovely for this arsehat.

holy cow, after this, your marriage is a crash waiting to happen. Now he knows he has free reigns and OP (poor wee lamb) will believe anything.

Please go to the GU clinic and get a check up. How many other random blokes do you think this young barmaid has slept with? Next thing you know she will tell him she is pregnant, and what are you going to do then? What will HE do? Leave you to support this new baby that could be anybody's, or start sending money?

If my dh behaved like this, he would not be able to call our house "home" any more.

CleopatrasAsp Wed 20-Feb-13 16:04:49

I don't believe a word he says and I suspect that, deep down, you don't either OP. I'm sorry you've had to go through this, you deserve better, you really do.

CuriousMama Wed 20-Feb-13 16:09:12

Goodness yes never thought of GU clinic. Go there.

Would agree with AF, you are truly much too nice for this arsehat.

Interesting to see that you wrote the "he's a good dad" comment in your initial post. That indicates to me that you yourself can think of nothing positive to say about him.

I do not think for one minute those messages he has sent since he arrived back home are at all innocent; what does he stand to gain from keeping in touch with her?. Think he's taking you for a mug tbh.

You know what whatsapp is?. Whatsapp is real time messaging.

This is not your fault; he is the one that has messed up big time here by becoming emotionally involved with another woman. He always had a choice not to do so and tell her to back off.

Presumably as well he still has her email address.

I'm afraid I too don't believe him.

From her point of view, you think an attractive single woman sends 120 texts messages including several 'missing you ones', and they're not shagging? I would have stopped at 5...

I imagine the tears were genuine guilt at breaking his marriage vows.

I think this will eat away at you until you get the truth. Together, try and retrieve the deleted texts or watch him and his phone/s and fake email.

Good luck op. wishing you peace of mind soon.

Oh dear - been there and got the t-shirt I'm afraid.
Mine denied it too, until I found some proof and then just told him I knew.
I really do hope you can work passed this.
I couldn't. I tried but there was always that part that didn't trust him again.
Keep it all together for your family and I hope it works out for you.
Good luck.

LetsFaceTheMusicAndDance Wed 20-Feb-13 18:47:23

I don't believe him.

I don't buy deleting the texts and keeping the pictures.

I think he wanted you to find the pictures because he wants to be chucked out and can't face the responsibility of being the 'bad man' who leaves his wife and kids. Or because he wants to make you jealous to goad you into being 'perfect' wife. Or because he disrespects you and doesn't give a toss how you feel.

There is no good reason for someone to behave as he has done. He really needs to find out why he thought it was ok to behave in the way that he did.

I think the poster who says he'll be buying a new phone is spot on.

Many posters would have literally bet on their children's lives that their DH wouldn't cheat - and been wrong.

Very sorry.

Branleuse Wed 20-Feb-13 18:52:46

good luck OP, I think you sound really reasonable. I would have probably handled it similarly x

Abitwobblynow Wed 20-Feb-13 21:53:36

Well, Hmmmm has acted very decisively, and he has been given notice.

Good luck OP.

Bluemary3000 Wed 20-Feb-13 22:01:25

My dh had a very drunken intimate night with someone last year. He came clean very quickly after it happened, I would never have found out. I chose to forgive him. I thought I would forget easily enough too. That however was a massive mis judgement on my part. I do check his phone from time to time, demand to know where he is. Remind him of his husband and fatherly duties. You may find that you do become the paranoid woman at home that gets jealous and reads into things that really don't matter. I trust by dh as I firmly believe that it would never happen again, so I know it's in my head. Just be warned those feelings might start. I'm working through it and it is better.
We too married v young and are nearly 20yrs down the line. The whole thing has made us re-evaluate our marriage, our friendship, what we want, expect and need from each other. I have also realised I'm much stronger in character than I thought I was.
Good luck to you, if you believe he is telling the truth and you both want to make it work. Take each day as it comes, be honest and time will heal the emotional wounds.

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Feb-13 11:05:01

I'm still here and reading your posts. I must admit that it makes for uncomfortable reading because what some of you say may be correct. I hope not. I sway from one minute thinking it was rather stupid of him to be so naive in thinking it was a friendship to wondering when would it stop? There would have been no opportunity for anything physical to happen, she is on the other side of the world, but she would have supplied him with emotions that were wrong. I told him last night that I want the DS's and myself to be inside his head and heart - not her.

Its almost as if he at times thinks I have over reacted. When asked how his day went yesterday (as he came home looking glum) he said that he felt awful for her. I asked what the f**k about me?

She's on twitter. I know I said that I would not get obsessive about this but I fear I may. She refers to him in her tweets, asking for her friend to see if he is on MySpace, that she doesn't want him to go, that its `finished`. I'm not on twitter and neither is he but gathered that much. I also struggled with the Indonesian/Malay/slang. I have no idea if this is her imagination or the other.

He said about my male friend and that he was fine about it. I showed him my messages from him; which were just "have a nice trip away, see you when you get back. X" kind of thing. I don't delete them. I also said that I don't find him attractive and he doesn't me. If that was the case the dynamics would be different/dangerous and our friendship would not have developed.

I could contact her easily but would she even tell me the truth? It would certainly make me look desperate. I may monitor twitter as DH doesn't know that I am aware of that.

As for buying another phone, I tightly control the purse strings. He gets a couple of quid for lunch a day and that's where it ends. Also,it would be really difficult for him to establish that type of relationship at work as he works with far to many people that would have my best interests at heart.

I have sticking it out for the rest of the year in my head. I will not stay in a marriage that is not healthy for me or my children. I can't walk away without giving it my best shot either.

Thanks to those who have said I'm nice. I'm on my phone so can't acknowledge you. I can be a PITA at times!

perceptionreality Thu 21-Feb-13 11:21:12

'When asked how his day went yesterday (as he came home looking glum) he said that he felt awful for her.'

WTF?? I cannot believe I am reading this. If I were in your shoes I would send her a message saying 'you do realise he's married with children, how about you fuck off?'

perceptionreality Thu 21-Feb-13 11:22:28

'I tightly control the purse strings.'

He cannot be trusted with money?

Callthemidlife Thu 21-Feb-13 11:48:26

I'm really concerned for you, OP, as I don't think you understand the dynamics of these types of trips. I've travelled all over the world on business and lived in Asia and Africa.

There is a method of conducting yourself on business trips that it pretty standard. When you are staying in New York, Frankfurt, Brussels, those kinds of places, you aren't really on your guard. There may be the odd approach from a prostitute in the hotel bar but the blokes wouldn't generally dream of taking them up on it. A trip to a lap dance bar might happen, might not. All pretty safe. You only get mixed up with a woman if you are actively looking for it, but you'll probably happily chat to random strange women in the bars/hotels (with nothing coming of it).

Different story in many Asian cities (including the more cosmopolitan ones like Tokyo). Generally even the well-brought up educated girls are desperate to hook up with a western man. They have the reputation of treating them nicer than men in their own countries, and are generally wealthier. I've seen men hit on by women within 5 seconds of my getting up and going off to the loo or whatever. It happens in even the best hotels, and gets more rampant in the local bars. All the businessmen I know are 100% on guard against this kind of thing. They know that free sex is on the cards (that night, within 30 minutes of meeting if they want it), and because of this they don't even get involved in conversations with local women, certainly not 'friendships'. The only exceptions are the very few sleazebags who want to shag their way round. And the one or two single guys who actually are looking for girlfriends at the time. I know a couple of chaps who've even married local girls due to these kinds of relationships (and they're happy).

Which is all a very roundabout way of saying that (a) I am 100% convinced she's done everything in her power to make him fall for her (including trying to sleep with him), and (b) I am 100% convinced that he did not naively fall into this 'friendship'. No-one who travels regularly would fall into a 'friendship' in the way he is suggesting. They would have done it with eyes wide open.

To be honest, I am more angry at the way he is trying to fool you about all of this than whatever it is he may have done with her. And I think he is speculating on what he's missed out on by coming back to wifey.

He's your husband and you know him and we don't, but that's the honest view from someone who's been in and out of business hotels for 20 years. Everyone involved knows what's on the cards when they start flirting with local girls.

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Feb-13 11:50:29

I know perception. Should be our best interests at heart.

He can be trusted with money. He just has no interest in it. So I sort out all that side of things so we know where we are IYSWIM.

I have just emailed my solicitor to ask advice. I need to safeguard the kids and myself just in case.

Yes, his attitude is driving me mad- I can't imagine what it is doing to you.

She is sending zillions of texts saying she misses him, he has ooops deleted everything, she is tweeting that 'it's finished', he is so sad at how it's affected her, and yet they were 'just good friends'. It just doesn't add up.

Nobody is that naive - or if they are, then it's combined with a staggering level of selfishness....

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 21-Feb-13 12:06:04

When asked how his day went yesterday (as he came home looking glum) he said that he felt awful for her. I asked what the f**k about me?

How dare he say that? I would be livid too. What was his answer?

This shows he is putting her needs first and that he is far more emotionally engaged to her. I am now convinced that they have shagged - sorry sad

He has become addicted to her ego strokes and attention needs to be shocked out of this bubble. The only way to stop this ambivalence is to provide a dose of hard cold reality...

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Feb-13 12:09:54

midwife I know exactly what you are saying. I have been to Bangkok and seen the girls. Ironically we called them 'dirty dicks'. I told him she would have been after money and a life over here and people would have seen them together and thought what I twat he was.

Yes,thisis she has absolutely no reason to fabricate or exaggerate the events on twitter. It is not wrote on there for him or me.

fiventhree Thu 21-Feb-13 12:11:57

"he said that he felt awful for her."

That was so not just a bit of company. His emotions were involved.

And at the very least, she saw it as a developing partnership too, and one wonders why?

I would lay money on it you are not getting the full story.

And he can say that to you, and also imply you are overreacting? I cant see that he is very self aware, and certainly not aware of your feelings.

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Feb-13 12:23:09

I do feel sick about all of this. If only I could see those messages. It's not about him sleeping with/kissing her. It's his emotions and, like you say five they are.

Please, if anyone recognises me from this,don't even let on to me you know about this.

Oh no! Feelings for her rather than you.
When I said to my exDH we should give it another go but he had to finish it properly and talk to her about it.
I came back and asked how it had gone.
He said 'She didn't take it well to be honest. She was crying etc....'
So I said 'Well what did you say to her then?' (This will out me!)
He said 'I told her I have a duty to your and our DD'
A DUTY!!!! Really!!??? Well that was the end of our relationship!
I did not want to be anyone's DUTY!
Your story is sooooo like mine it's scray.
Just wanted to share so you understand what might be going on in his head?
Well done on contacting the solicitor, always best to look at every option.
Keep us posted though!

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Feb-13 12:36:08

Thanks hells for sharing. I'm sorry you have been through similar. It's me that is the one usually concerned about peoples welfare, not him.

I'm also going to start squirrelling some money away.

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Feb-13 12:37:16

Should I contact her?

catlady1 Thu 21-Feb-13 12:41:28

I also have a similar story, with the being "open" with pictures, yet deleting texts, and him feeling sorry for the other woman, etc, and reading this has made me feel a bit sick to be honest. Please, make him leave so you can sort out properly how you feel about it, even if just temporarily, and if you do decide to stay together, you need to really put your foot down about this kind of thing. If he's showing you pictures and talking about her then he's obviously feeling pretty proud of himself and he has no reason to change! I know it must be so difficult to face losing your husband and the father of your children but you don't deserve to live with the constant paranoia and low self esteem while he swans off and shags other women, and it's doing your children no favours either.

Coconutty Thu 21-Feb-13 12:47:00

Don't worry that anyone in RL will recognise you, they won't. This sort of shit happens all the time.

I don't know if you should contact her, I would as I would have to know what went on.

Hmmmmm - I really don't know if you should contact her.
If you believe you will get answers then it might be worth a try.
But you really need to be prepared for what you might hear.
And, do you know if she is really telling the truth. She could lie in order for you to throw him out so he goes running to her!???
Actually writing it down, I don't think you will gain much by talking to her!
Keep strong, keep doing what you are doing and don't write him off just yet.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 21-Feb-13 12:58:40

If you need a good book on this topic, get Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends.

And I would not talk to her - in case she really is one of these predatory women and anyway she will only tell you what she wants you to hear.

slipshodsibyl Thu 21-Feb-13 13:10:52

If it was in Asia, then what has been said is very true, but I think it is very very easy (if unbelievable) and incredibly common to be pathetically flattered by the attention. It seems to bring out some kind of 'hero/rescuer' complex as these girls are often in straitened circumstances. Don't bother to contact her- it will only bother you more as she is not interested in your well being.

You mention a recent bereavement. I think this kind of event very frequently leads to the kind of aberrant behaviour your husband is displaying. Is this a possibility?I think he is living a little fantasy. Can there be any real likelihood in his head that this girls from so far away and from a different culture is more than a flattering diversion?

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Feb-13 13:22:25

cat I'm not sure if I can take that strong stance. I don't know if I have the strength, energy or courage to do it. Not yet anyway.

For those of you who mentioned not to contact her, yes she could make things up about what happened to try and get her man.

Had he kissed her or been intimate with her then I would see that his chase was led by a strong sexual attraction that almost like a drug. He said they were not intimate so why f**king bother?

slipshodsibyl Thu 21-Feb-13 13:28:17

Because it is just a fantasy.

AgathaF Thu 21-Feb-13 13:37:33

Chances are there was some kind of intimacy. Like slipshod said though, it's a fantasy - with or without intimacy.

It's worrying that he doesn't recognise where his boundaries should lie, or worry about going over them.

TBH he sounds like a love-sick school girl.

CajaDeLaMemoria Thu 21-Feb-13 13:40:42

I'd be concerned that if she is talking about this openly on Twitter, other people know.

Only two types of people would post "it's over" type messages...attention seekers who want to be asked what's wrong, and people who are talking to those who already know.

Contacting her could go either way. I wonder what your DH would say if he thought you had talked to her?

HmmmWhatAMess Thu 21-Feb-13 13:49:06

He asked me not to caja. That speaks volumes.

Its not looking good.

I hope you don't mind if I step away from posting on this thread for a little. I need to collect my thoughts. Maybe its just a bit too painful writing this down and making it more real. I will keep reading though.

Oh hmm what a horrible position he has put you in.

He is so much more concerned about her than you right now

Take care of yourself xx

AgathaF Thu 21-Feb-13 14:07:37

You're right - that does speak volumes. That (and the twitter stuff) would make me want to contact her tbh, although I know that the advice is always not to.

He is horrible for doing this to you.

SorryMyLollipop Thu 21-Feb-13 14:39:45

He asked you not to contact her? That does speak volumes sad

TheElephantIsADaintyBird Thu 21-Feb-13 15:03:32

God I'm so glad you're not just letting it go and believing him!
It just doesn't ring true, the fact he found her very attractive and she fancied him, they spent loads of time together with alcohol in the mix and yet nothing happened...?

Someone who is committed to their partner would recognise how dangerous a situation like that could be and would immediately distance themselves from it, not bloody carry it on and even more so when he gets home!

I think he has been mixing up lies with his honesty. He DID sleep with her and the guilt is eating him up, that's why he cried.

If I was you I'd bluff him, tell him you've found something out and you want to hear the truth from him before you pack his bags and throw him out. It doesn't sound as if he is some god awful monster who's out to hurt you at every opportunity, sounds like he got carried away by a pretty young girl showing a lot of interest in him, it's understandable but not excusable.
If he can be 100% honest and be prepared to work hard to gain your trust again then you may have a chance of the relationship recovering. You won't get anywhere if he continues to hide the truth though.

Good luck OP, you do sound lovely and so undeserving of this.

AnyFucker Thu 21-Feb-13 15:51:55

Op, you said at his work there are "too many people looking out for you" for him to get away with something like this

Where are these people now? Is there one of them you could confide in, show them the tweets ("it's finished..... Wtf ??) and see what they say? There might be somebody deliberating whether to tell you or not and waiting for a sign from you. Have you seen all the threads from people asking "should I tell?)

You shouldn't be going through this on your own

Bluemary3000 Thu 21-Feb-13 17:10:42

I'm sorry to say that a man who can't stop contact is a man who is up to something. That was a big clause for me. No further contact. He hasn't so I'm happy (ier). If he had continued then out he would have gone. My dh was also waiting out the days of his father ( he died several days after the night in question), so yes I do believe dealing with massive issues could and should be taken into account.
Good luck, stay strong and know that you def stronger than you believe you can be x

dubdurbs Fri 22-Feb-13 13:07:24

Hmmmm, I don't know if you've tried this to recover the deleted whatsapp messages, but they have a faq section that might help

http://www.whatsapp.com/faq/en/general/21197296

NanaNina Fri 22-Feb-13 13:59:12

Oh lordy Hmm so many different view points here, with the majority thinking he is lying to you.........it's trial by MN with the majority finding him guilty! I don't know either but am confused about a few things. Was your DH in some part of Asia when he met these girls. I see that some posters know the score in this part of the world , and that women do "make a play" for a white UK male - maybe thinking they are loaded? Whether or not it is my belief that the male ego is very susceptible to flattery from another woman, especially is she is younger and more attractive.

It didn't fit for me that she "wanted" him but he was restrainded enough to keep it to merely friendship, but if this was Asia he might have been aware that girls do show interest in white males and so did keep it to friendship.

You say she lives on the other side of the world, so presumably their only contact is by text.....pretty unsatsifactory I suspect, but maybe your DH is still enjoying the flattery of this girl, sending him texts saying she is missing him etc. I am limited in IT skills so don't understand this Twitter thing and you being able to talk to her. Your DH "doesn't want you to" - did he give a reason. I am assuming he did not tell this girl he was married with children! This is pure conjecture but I wonder if this thing from her about "it's finished" is the reason for the glum face, but so insensitive to tell you he feels sorry for her. I think I might have lost it at that point.

I will tell you of my experience many years ago now. My DP went on a business trip to Bulgaria (he was a college lecturer and some of the staff of the London college were meeting with staff from Sophia University in Bulgaria.) I had an idea that he had "connected" with a woman from the Uni.
When he came back he was pre-occupied and very soon after we were going on holiday to France and on the ferry I said to him "I think you'd rather be going back to Bulgaria than France wouldn't you" and he said "I don't know" and I was utterly furious............we rowed on and off for the entire 2 weeks. The first thing he did when we got to the campsite was go to buy a post card (which he has never ever done before) and I knew it was for her, and he gave me this crap about Bulgarians "liking pictures of the sea" because they lived so far inland!!! FFS!

I continued to be suspicious and unsetted and jealous (as you say Hmm) not because he might have slept with her, but the emotional intimacy and that she appeared to matter more to him than I did. That's the way I took it anyway. A month or so later I found an airmail letter in his pocket from the Bulgarian woman, saying she was sorry but she couldn't see any future for them because of the distance and different cultures etc. SO he had been trying to think of ways they could be together!! I saw RED!!!! and we had an enormous row. The whole thing fizzled out but I never trusted him again and still don't to this day.........some 20 years later.

THAT I'm afraid is the issue - for many people once trust has gone it never comes back, or maybe it does for the fortunate ones. Writing this has brought it all to the surface again and my DP has just come in the room and said "I'm going down town" and I said "what for"............and he looked puzzled and said "to get my prescription and look in the Music shop" SO there I was amazingly suspicious of him, that I haven't felt for a very long time. I said he looked puzzled when I asked him what he was going to town for, and he laughed and said "I couldn't understand why you were asking" - I am staggered at the way that writing about it, brings it all back to the surface. Of course it's so long ago the emotions are manageable and I can see how strange it was to ask him why he was going to town.

We came through it but the search for evidence can become addictive and it causes so much upset and misery. I haven't any advice really but I am feeling huge empathy for you as it is a horrible position to be in. I've kept my account as brief as poss but there was a lot more to it which caused me so much misery.

Is there anyone in RL in whom you can confide - although I know it's not easy to talk to someone about this. My best friend in whom I confided in for many years was terminally ill with cancer when all this was going on, and so I had no-one else to talk to. I can't say anything that will make you feel any better and you are going to feel confused and upset.............think it's a good idea to stay away from the thread for a while. I do find that in these situations there are too many poster telling you to "pack his bags" etc but life is not that simple is it.

Oh just thought of the £2 per day for lunch and this does sound very odd to me - surely this has arisen for a reason. I wonder why this is the case and does he not have credit cards etc. Anyway no more questions as you have enough of those going round in your head. That bloody tape in your head keeps running doesn't it...............the more you try to switch it off the more it plays. Sorry that was my experience and may not be yours.

Take care of yourself as best you can.

fiventhree Fri 22-Feb-13 14:11:47

NanaNina that was a perfect account of what it feels like even a year or two afterwards, for many of us.

A depressing thought , but honest, and thought provoking too.

NanaNina Fri 22-Feb-13 14:34:07

Thanks fiventhree but 20+ years in my case, though obviously much diluted!

Abitwobblynow Fri 22-Feb-13 15:22:03

Caring about her feelings: not good. Means an investment.

I remember this shocking moment - when on discovery my husband wanted to protect HER from me.

How are you Hmmmm?

HmmmWhatAMess Sat 23-Feb-13 02:03:31

Hi guys, two shifts at work done and its been a relief to get out of the house. Its been I bit strained with DH. He's concerned that if I can't get my head around it its going to be the end of us. I have told him I need time.

I still don't know exactly where my head is right now so I'm not making any rash decisions.

AF, you asked about the people in his workplace. Its a mix of family and friends. I really do have many people that I could talk to but I can't bring myself to yet. Part of of thinks that if I told and if was telling the truth they would meet view us in the same way again. Strangely enough I did tell a girl I work with this evening. I don't know why I told her as she doesn't have any experience with marital problems - she's only 21 but it was nice to speak about it even though I felt embarrassed for myself and him/ashamed/vulnerable .I have decide that I will speak to his sister next week. She and I get on fantastic and I know that she will have my interests at heart (as silly as it sounds). I will also talk to my male friend but at the moment he is in the wilderness in Morocco.

TheElephant I'm not sure if I could buff him. I'm still monitoring her twitter which has had more sort about how sad she is/a broken vow/how love is sometimes loving and getting nothing in return bollocks. Her certainly not on twitter so its not being wrote for his benefit so I'm guessing that if they do converse soon her tone will change...although I realise that I can't do it forever. It just line of gives me a little secret and insight I guess. Oh, and bless my lovely colleague, she said she didn't think she was particularly attractive and had nothing on me. Although she did say she looked about 21. envy

Thanks for the link dubs. That's the one that I have been following to the letter and its not working for me. Damn technology. It could have answered all of my questions because I haven't got a blue what is truth and what is lies.

Yes nana,its a big city Asia way (don't want to say), but yes, beautiful girls and prostitutes plenty. As exotic they were to him he was a handsome, rich Englishman. I remember when we went to Thailand years ago. Its was almost as if the girls were in awe of my clothe,makeup and bags. They really do think westerners have it all.

Reading the couple of quid for lunch. Its just enough to get a bus of coffee from the machine and a pie for lunch. He has on issues with cash or cards. Tbh, he doesn't have much interest with money so I will be able to see a change straight away if it occurs.

Also, in sorry that others have had to go through this. It really is quite shit.

Thanks Abit and to others for enquiring on my welfare. I am feeling a bit wobbly, tired, vacant and sad - but that won't last too long. I can't and won't let it.

Also, before I found out about this I started a course of tablets to stop me smoking. Great timing. Anyhow, my date to give up should be one day next week and in still going to go ahead. I need to have some control over my life at the moment.

HmmmWhatAMess Sat 23-Feb-13 02:08:14

I'm sure you get the drift despite my auto correct fails!

Contradictionincarnate Sat 23-Feb-13 02:53:49

boy I am naive I think I believed what you said he said went on ... that it was text chat and that it was a few days of flattery I know when I had a friend I felt a little for that I ended up crying out of guilt though nothing had happened speak to your dh get a babysitter and get out on some date nights.
I think that talking things through more is the way through this and to stay together if that is what you decide. I would say that you should explain you just can't move on from it...
think honesty and not pushing him away are key.

Littleturkish Sat 23-Feb-13 03:00:47

I'm sorry it's all so shit.

Please look after yourself, HE is clearly not looking out for you and you are very vulnerable right now.

He is clearly lying and not telling you the whole truth- if that's because there was more to it and he doesn't want you finding out, or if he intends to back off from her a bit then get in contact again later (hence the reluctance for you to contact her) then either way- you've got a lying cheat.

Such a hard situation and made worse by his open concern about her over you.

AgathaF Sat 23-Feb-13 07:42:23

He's concerned that if I can't get my head around it its going to be the end of us. I have told him I need time.

The problem is that you can't get your head around something that you don't know the full facts for. Perhaps if he was more honest and open, and if he put your feelings first, you might be able to get your head around it a little easier.

Good luck for the not smoking.

Yes, 'he's concerned that if i can't get around it, it's going to be the of us..'
What a terrible message that is - he had some kind of intimate relationship overseas that he was continuing in secret here - and yet, you're the one who is spoiling everything.
He still doesn't get it.

Hissy Sat 23-Feb-13 08:34:33

He wants the spotlight to go away, you to stop thinking about it, and life to be the way it was before you found out what he did.

He wants NO consequences.

If he can't see that it'll take as long as it takes for you to process this and decide what to do, and that his PRESSURE for you to STFU and get over it is about the worst thing ever, then tbh, it's pointing to the fact that there's way more than he's telling you.

He needs to leave the house for a while. You need to tell some family, and get some support.

fiventhree Sat 23-Feb-13 08:50:28

Oh well done Hmmm.

There are always consequences!

Abitwobblynow Sat 23-Feb-13 11:41:24

OK, the other not good sign - a vow broken. What vow? This wasn't as minimal as he says it was.

Good thing you are on those tablets, if they are the ones I am thinking of, they are also an antidepressant which is probably what you need right now.

He has no right to ask you to get over anything. Buy him Shirley Glass NOT Just Friends and tell him he has to read it. From cover to cover, and give you a precis of every chapter.

DO NOT READ IT yourself. Why? Because he has to do some work. If he doesn't want to, Loveyoulongtime is waiting in the wings and throw him into her open, loving arms and open, loving legs.

Stay calm and Throw him away, Hmmmm (that increases your power). Please don't make the mistake I made at this time and beg/scream/abuse/do all the reading. All that let him know was how much power he has d

NanaNina Sat 23-Feb-13 14:52:21

Hmm I am extremely limited with IT though am on FB. I'm signed up to twitter but don't understand it. Can I ask how you know this is the woman in question on twitter. How do you know your DH isn't on twitter. Does he know you are on it. Could u tweet this girl and ask why she is so heartbroken or doesn't twitter work like that.

This girl as you say is on the other side of the world so the thing will have to fizzle out - ok maybe there will be texts for a short time but it can't go anywhere else can it. You could take him by surprise and say "hope you wore a condom with that Asian woman" and he might just be taken off guard and say "of course I did" - worth a try. It worked for me once! He may be telling the truth if she was a prostitute which would fit as he says she was wanting sex and he wouldn't agree.

I thought posters were being a bit over the top about getting checked out for STDs but if she was some kind of prostitute it may be worthwhile.

Ask him why he showed you those photos because I think the one with the girl with his hat on is really screwing you up. Do you have the photos on your phone (again my lack of technology) as you showed them to a girl at work.

Do you have children btw and if so how are they faring with the tension in the household.

slipshodsibyl Sat 23-Feb-13 15:00:40

'Vows broken' is not necessarily as dire as it seems. Over emotional, sentimental cliches are very commonly used in expressing oneself. They do things differently there.

RobDile197 Sat 23-Feb-13 20:30:36

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

howdoo Sat 23-Feb-13 21:17:10

Robdile, you are ON FIRE tonight, arncha??

If OP or anyone else was thinking of taking any of Robdile's "advice", I suggest you look at the What if DH Tells you he's Wanking thread, where he (I presume) is being an absolute treasure...

That'll be removed shortly I think, Howdoo......

coppertop Sat 23-Feb-13 21:35:47

"Whatever you do, don't be dishonest. And don't break your family over something as trivial as an affair."

If only the OP's dh had followed that advice too eh, Rob? There'd be no need for this thread.

Exactly Coppertop! It is soooo much easier on the children to try and act normal and in love whilst you work through the reasons why your husband cheated, and trust is such an easy thing to gain back quickly. hmm

Mimishimi Sat 23-Feb-13 22:23:03

Sorry but if he's asked you not to contact her, it sounds like he's more worried that she will find out about you than he is worried you will find out what shenanigans they got up to. She quite probably doesn't know you exist.

AgathaF Sun 24-Feb-13 07:58:32

Have him checked regularly - like taking the dog to the vets for his yearly check-up and vacc? That kind of thing? FFS.

perceptionreality Sun 24-Feb-13 10:31:34

I expect Rob will be going back to school on Monday...

Abitwobblynow Sun 24-Feb-13 12:40:22

Yeah, Rob, I know you would love it if your other half dolled themselves up for a bit of sex worker trade.

She might even give your boss a blow job! Your colleagues would know what her snatch looked and felt like. Your friends could give her one from behind. The money would come in handy...

I mean, it doesn't mean anything, does it!

RobDile197 Sun 24-Feb-13 20:02:01

There is obviously a desperate campaign on this forum to silence my voice. I am not allowed to say my say without being culled off. How democratic is that?! Okay, I accept this may be for single mums and all that, but I am certain that there are people who are willing to read my posts and decide if I am wrong or right. How will you earn the respect of people whose views you want to kill at all costs? Any wonder why there is so much hatred and acrimony in relationships?

RobDile197 Sun 24-Feb-13 20:02:47

Perceptionreality, I am indeed going to school. To teach.

Hi hmm, hope you doing ok and there is more clarity...

LineRunner Sun 24-Feb-13 21:55:14

Just report to MNHQ if people break the guidelines and let MNHQ do the rest.

NanaNina Sun 24-Feb-13 22:18:26

RobDile I am glad to see that MN HQ has deleted your post. There is no "desperate campaign" on here to silence your voice, but there are posters who are going to take issue with your comments. MN are very clear about which posts are deleted and they have seen fit to delete yours. In your post above, you make another offensive comment "OK I accept this might be for single mums and all that..........." You appear to be differentiating between single mums and married ones and that is discriminating behaviour, which is in fact unlawful.
I think if you are interested in people respecting each other's views, may I suggest that you desist from make inflammatory comments and trivialising the position of women who are in distress related to their relationships.

How concerning that you are a teacher - what do you teach "medieval history"

LineRunner Sun 24-Feb-13 22:20:31

Just ignore it.

NanaNina Sun 24-Feb-13 22:33:35

Yes LineRunner that's our usual tactic and I'm definitely in favour as it detracts from the support we are trying to give to the OP.

HmmmWhatAMess Mon 25-Feb-13 14:40:33

Its much the same here. They are definitely in contact. I couldn't sleep and checked his WhatsApp in the middle of the night. He then called me to tell me if knew I was snooping in the early hours. The only way if would know that is if someone had gone into his individual profile. Also, I was drying my hair upstairs so left the dryer running but sneaked a look at him downstairs (with the help of a mirrored photoframe on the stairs). If was on WhatsApp and then was looking at a photo of her.

I know the twitter ruled because IGoogle searched the first past of her email. Its definitely her and I know that he is not a follower because they all mainly seem to be Asian young women. I don't want to contact her on there because it feels like some of the things on there are adding evidence to my case IYSWIM?

He said that he is worried about this consuming me. I told him that I was checking for his messages that he deleted to prove his innocence. There was only one way to remedy that and to ask her to email the conversation. He said I asked him to sever contact so its not a possibility. I said that as far as I was concerned it was an admission of guilt.

The dc are 5 and 3 nana. So far they are faring well. To be honest I don't think they realise anything. This May be the end of our relationship but I do not want to give them any ill feelings towards their dad or for them to see any tension at home.

I wish I was coming on here being super strong and following but of your excellent advice but I can't and haven't. Not yet anyway.

HmmmWhatAMess Mon 25-Feb-13 14:42:18

Sorry about the typos. Its this flippin phone.

Littleturkish Mon 25-Feb-13 14:47:07

Hmmmm this sounds bad- I didn't quite follow the still in contact part- are they still messaging each other?

Did you tell him you saw him looking at her picture?

I am so angry for you.

I think you need to ask him to leave.

Me23 Mon 25-Feb-13 14:54:53

I have been following your thread. You deserve to know the truth I think it's clear something has happened and the face he is still contacting her behind your back shows it was more than a friendship you can't let him get away with this. Also angry on your behalf.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 25-Feb-13 15:06:22

Oh dear...he is taking the piss isn't he.

This is because he thinks he can get away with it and has lost respect for you - you need to take control, tell him that you deserve to be loved and respected and that he needs to go to give you space to consider your future.

This is your only chance of bursting that lust fuelled fantasy bubble - he is far too addicted to ego strokes of OW and needs to feel real consequences.

NanaNina Mon 25-Feb-13 16:12:23

Agree with you MAHC - sounds like he is infatuated and cannot resist the flattery of another woman, especially if she is younger. Maybe she thinks she will get money from him if she keeps up the flattery as it did sound like she was maybe a "sex worker" in some part of Asia. Didn't really understand all about apps and twitter but that's just me. BUT this is going nowhere isn't it if she is on the other side of the world..........it will fizzle out no doubt when one or other gets tired of the only communication they can have. BUT where does that leave you............he will most certainly have lost any trust you have in him and in some cases that is never restored and that in itself can bring about the break up of a relationship.

Trouble is about taking control is that when you are emotionally very vulnerable and anxious that's the time when you are least able to be calm and rational and take control. THat's why you can't come on here feeling super strong and following advice - ye know what - it's called being human!
You must feel like you are in some sort of mad maze that yu can't get out of.
He thinks this is consuming you - sounds like classic projection to me. Well in a way you are both consumed but in different way, him in keeping up contact with this woman and you in trying to find evidence.

Yes I agree it is an admission of guilt for him to say you want him to sever contact and that's not possible of course it's bloody possible - he doesn't want to do it.

Glad the little ones aren't getting caught up in this though they usually sense more than we realise.

Keep posting if it helps......and I wish people would stop telling you to "get rid" or whatever. That is easy to tap onto a screen but life isn't that simple. Mind I suspect the end for you might come later when this is over and you will never trust him again.

AgathaF Mon 25-Feb-13 17:23:20

How awful for you. You must feel very frustrated to still not have the full truth from him.

Does he understand why this is consuming you?

What do you plan to do next?

I'm sorry to hear this, hmmm.

He says its consuming you, yet he persists on contacting her? Dreadful.

It sounds like you feel you need proof before you make a move. The contempt he is displaying for you right now though is certainly a valid reason to suggest he goes, if that's what you want, of course.

Stay strong.

Abitwobblynow Mon 25-Feb-13 18:12:25

Oh dear, this is bringing back horrible memories. They have definitely f-ed, and he is addicted to her.

Whilst he is in the thralls of lust-crazed dementia (and choosing her), there is nothing you can do, not do, say, not say to get him out of it.

Time to throw him out, Hmmm. And let his work know.

My advice to you? (which I am doing 3 years too late). Live as though he is never coming back. WHATEVER he is doing.

Me23 Thu 28-Feb-13 17:05:26

How are you hmm have you and dh spoken any more about this?

cjel Thu 28-Feb-13 18:49:59

Hmm, hope you are ok?

angel1976 Thu 28-Feb-13 21:49:48

Hmmm Just wanted to say you are not the only one going through this. My DH has just admitted to having 'a spark' with someone he works with, I call it an emotional affair. Our marriage hasn't been great for a while but I never thought it would come to this. To his credit, he has instigated the ending of all contact with the other OW on Monday. But I am so angry he let is it get to that point. My DCs are 5 and 3 too. DH is in his early 30s, I am in my mid 30s and we have been married coming up to 10 years so your situation resonates with mine. I really hope you will come back on here to tell us how you are getting on. DH and I have been absolutely honest with each other and there have been so very emotional chats and right at this point of time, I am hoping we will make it but I am not sure we will. Hugs to you.

cjel Thu 28-Feb-13 22:02:35

so sad angel. hugs to you too.

HmmmWhatAMess Fri 01-Mar-13 10:40:35

Thanks for thinking about me. Its a strange place to be at the moment. DH knows in not happy wit what has unfolded in the past few weeks although I think he thinks he is off the hook.

I have confided in someone and they were in shock as much as me. My DH has always been my champion and biggest fan. Yes, we have had ups and downs but they thought we were tight and are in as much shock as me.

With my limited tech knowledge I can see that they are corresponding on WhatsApp. Their status' correspond. Its almost like a cryptic code that seems innocent but its not. If also updates his status as to what he is doing (eg. "busy at work") so I'm guessing that this gives his location thus letting her know he is contactable. All there stupid status' - he's on fb and never updates those. Interestingly a few weeks ago if took the photo of the both of us off his fb profile and changed it to one of himself.

He has also signed up for an instant talk message app on Monday which he deleted when he got home. Whether he sets this up at work to chat and deletes when he comes home I don't know. She also has a picture on twitter of the two of them - the one with them looking so happy and comfortable in each others company.

I think abit you asked if she was a sex worker. She is a married barmaid who is aware of the kids and myself. She has a 3yr old.

Oh angel, I'm sorry that you are going through similar. Its good that he has been honest. I foot want to put a negative spin on it but my DH's 'honesty' hasn't been honest. I have a feeling that some men will fess up and some do damage limitation. Please keep your wits about you. This snooping thing is consuming but I feel that its the only way to get the bigger picture. Please feel free to keep posting on here if you want and do read everyones advice. It really has been a good outlet for me, and the advice -as much as I knew it was - is right. You could set up your own thread if you would prefer.

I had a chat with him the other day. I told him that should she make any contact in any way I must know. I explained anything else is unacceptable to me. He agreed. Its my way of laying down the boundaries and my justification for kicking him out. As posters have said its the only way. I am sitting back, collecting my evidence and waiting for him to hang himself.

I feel stronger by the day; although I still feel very vulnerable . I'm not scared of being a lone parent or not having a man and he will realise this soon enough.

Oh hmm, this is sad.

How painful this must be for you. Its evident from your posts that you have moved from "I love him no matter what" to "I will not be treated like this" and its really sad to read the change you have had to go through.

What a twat he is, to put you through this, to throw away the love and trust that you once had. I really dislike the fecker.

I'm glad you have confided in a friend. RL support is so important. Its good you are feeling stronger. Knowledge is power isn't it. But what a shit thing to know sad

Hope you're gathering all the financial/legal info you need too.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 01-Mar-13 11:52:34

Sounds like he is so absorbed into his fantasy list fuelled bubble, addicted to OW's ego strokes. It must be so hard watching him disrespect your boundaries and throwing away everything - please don't leave it too long before confronting him.

angel1976 Fri 01-Mar-13 13:15:42

Hmmm Just a short post from me. I am glad you came back and posted. Even though my DH has 'ended things' with the OW. I don't feel his heart is in making us work. However, we had a really honest talk last night and we both know we owe it to us and to our children to at least try. He has promised that we will maintain status quo (in as much as me staying in the house and him providing as much as he can financially so the kids 'don't suffer' while we work things out) if things do end up that way. I feel more assured about it. I know at the end of the day, I will do all I can to not hurt my children.

The in-laws got told yesterday of their DS's behaviour and though I know their loyalty will always be with him, they have already messaged me pledging their support to me and to us regardless and I am grateful of that.

I am more accepting today of eventualities. I have told another friend and she is shocked but again, I feel very lucky I am surrounded by people who love and support me and I feel better about coming through this stronger regardless of the conclusion. Fingers crossed for you. It's hard to be in limbo. On the positive side, I haven't eaten all week and I have the flattest stomach since I got pregnant! grin

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