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Help! How to bring this up with H? Horrible dodgy site on internet history..

(105 Posts)
ThatsNotMySock Sun 17-Feb-13 23:36:48

Feel a bit sick. Made this thread earlier on,

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1686732-Quick-Facebook-related-Q

Something prompted me a look at his browser history (I know I know sad I feel horrible about it, and wish I hadn't) 99% is absolutely normal everyday things, and I was feeling like a total shit for looking, then came across a site that was... just horrible. I don't want to go into too much detail in case he finds this thread, it was not exactly porn but related and very shocking.

Further digging revealed he had clicked on a link from another site (a kind of reader for blogs, but subject matter a bit unusual/a bit of v light porn/odd stories etc) The title of the link made it very very clear what he would see and he still clicked it.

I can't imagine what he was thinking. He rarely uses porn (or rarely leaves it for me to find) and this seems totally out of character.

I have no idea how to approach it with him. He will be angry if he knows I have looked, and if I bring it up. But I can't pretend I didn't see this. If if was just "regular" porn (ick, hate saying that) I was be pissed off but probably leave it. This.. I don't know what to do. Sorry not to be more precise, he knows I use this site so trying to be a bit careful.

How can I raise this? Should I raise it, or leave it despite the subject matter? Atm, I have left the offending (offensive, actually) pages open on pc for him to see if he looks, but he's sleeping on and off upstairs. He may be down soon and I have no idea what to do sad Please help!

annh Sun 17-Feb-13 23:41:03

Do you have any idea from the history if he clicked on different pages within the site? Could he have clicked the link by mistake and then come out again? I have regularly clicked on ads on MN by mistake e.g. when I am trying to get onto discussions of the day and have ended up on the Pampers site or looking at the latest fashion from Mint Velvet.

AnyFucker Sun 17-Feb-13 23:41:47

I'm sorry, but I have to know the nature of what he has been looking at

child stuff ?

rape stuff ?

other illegal stuff ?

dating/webcam sites ?

AnyFucker Sun 17-Feb-13 23:42:50

erm, I am thinking we are not talking about Pampers and Mint Velvet, at least

germyrabbit Sun 17-Feb-13 23:44:50

just ask him outright,you shoudln't be scared to and if it's there traceable on the intenet its a reasonable request.

annh Sun 17-Feb-13 23:46:17

AF, no I'm sure we're not sad but that would be an innocent example of what you could end up on from this site. Lord knows where you could end up on from a porn site.

VivaLeBeaver Sun 17-Feb-13 23:46:40

Might it have been a site which popped up rather than been actively clicked on?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 17-Feb-13 23:47:48

Don't be too quick to judge - plenty of us follow deeply dubious links posted on mumsnet out of curiosity. Dragonbutter anyone?

DoctorAnge Sun 17-Feb-13 23:50:00

Are these images of abuse? confused

Teeb Sun 17-Feb-13 23:53:11

Agree with previous posters that it's difficult to give advice without fully understanding what kind of sites these are.

Is any of the content illegal?

ThatsNotMySock Sun 17-Feb-13 23:54:02

germyrabbit Not that straightforward I'm afraid. He will get incredibly arsey. I'm not scared of him, but I know I will challenge him for being arsey and we will get nowhere. I do know exactly what you mean though, and wish I could.

As far as I can see, he first went to that "blog reader" type website, it had a list of different headlines you could click on to read. The top one only (which was very explicitly titled) was the only one that was a different colour, so you could tell it was the only one that had been clicked on. When I looked at the history I first noticed the very dodgy site, and when I explored further sites he'd looked onthat day, I found that blog reader site.So it looks like he found the blog reader, clicked that story, looked at the very dodgy site. Can't see that he looked at any other sites linked to either of those pages.

The very dodgy site also comes straight up if you type the first few letters of the website into the address bar sad

Oh god saying this makes me feel so sick, and it may be triggering re rape/sexual attack, so please please stop reading if that applies. I am so so sorry.

The site was "victims after they've been raped"

I feel so fucking sick.
I hate him.
Sorry for crap spelling/explanations. hands shaking.

ThatsNotMySock Sun 17-Feb-13 23:55:53

and the site was titled as such ^^ on the blog reader, So he clicked on the link that said exactly what is in the quotation marks above.

sad angry why why why why why would you look!

AnyFucker Sun 17-Feb-13 23:56:30

Ok

a rape site

I don't give a fuck if he will be defensive, I would be asking him to explain himself

then I would be putting his bags on the lawn

ThatsNotMySock Sun 17-Feb-13 23:56:34

Oh, and this title on the blog reader specified that it contained images sad angry

DoctorAnge Sun 17-Feb-13 23:56:56

sad
I am really sorry that is truly awful.

germyrabbit Sun 17-Feb-13 23:57:40

i am sorry but i agree with af, i would have to ask him outright.

AnyFucker Sun 17-Feb-13 23:57:56

OP, has he ever been sexually attacked himself ?

because that would be the only reason I could use to justify still staying married to him

PelvicFloorClenchReminder Sun 17-Feb-13 23:58:58

Holy crap OP sad

I'm with AnyFucker on this one, can there ever an explanation to justify that? angry

ThatsNotMySock Sun 17-Feb-13 23:59:56

I looked at the site, and (please please believe me when I say I am not minimising this, it actually makes no fucking difference to me as he saw the title long before he saw the images) there is no actual nudity. The women are clothed, but in clear disarray. It's all very posed. But, what the actual fuck.. what was he hoping to see?That is what is bothering me. I can't get my head around this at all. We had sex since he was looking at that. I feel sick.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 00:01:13

As far as I am aware AF he has not.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 00:01:40

Does it sound to everyone else like he actually clicked on that and it wasn't just a pop up?

Teeb Mon 18-Feb-13 00:02:11

God that's unbelievably sick that the site would even exist.

That isn't something anyone would land upon by accident. Has he ever displayed signs of being aggressive with you?

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 00:02:23

Really, really bad news, OP

Are you going to talk to him about this ?

Could you bear him to touch you again if you don't ?

Teeb Mon 18-Feb-13 00:03:32

If the link was a different colour to the other links on a site then that means it's a link that has already been opened on that computer. Just like threads on mumsnet change colour once you've opened them.

WafflyVersatile Mon 18-Feb-13 00:04:01

Morbid curiosity? I've clicked on lots of things that I can't resist even though I know I will probably have to click away immediately because they will be distressing.

If the website linked to has more than one page and they are not also listed on the history ie he hasn't spent time exploring it to any extent then I'd put it down to the above.

MechanicalTheatre Mon 18-Feb-13 00:04:06

Holy fuck OP. I am not easily shocked but that is horrible.

DoctorAnge Mon 18-Feb-13 00:05:25

Presumably it has been set up for those who get their kicks from seeing Women raped. So they stage these photos.

Worrying is not the word. It's really quite sick. I would have to confront him buty mind would be made up that I want no more to do with him.

MechanicalTheatre Mon 18-Feb-13 00:06:15

He definitely clicked on it.

I think you need to talk to him. His reaction will tell you what you need to know. He could be totally mortified, and it might have been morbid curiosity. I don't know if I'd be able to forgive that, but I might.

If he was arsey and defensive, I think it would be the end for me. And the fact that you are worried about bringing stuff up in case he gets arsey says a lot.

I am NEVER worried about bringing stuff up with my partner. Never.

BlatantLies Mon 18-Feb-13 00:09:09

Just playing devils advocate....

It is possible to accidently click things, are you sure this is not what happened. It is also possible that the page registered in history even though he did not give it time to load. IYSWIM

It seems a little odd that it is just the one page (if I am reading your post correctly )

Does he usually delete his history? If he intentionally looked at something that awful do you think he would have used in private browsing or have deleted his history?

I would speak to him and see what happens.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 00:21:09

Waffly Machanical If I imagined how he would react my first reaction would be that he would put it down to morbid curiosity/having to a look thinking "why the hell would people make something like this!!"

He's always really shocked about rape, anything in the news etc he gets quite upset, says he can't imagine wtf is wrong with people to do that.. so this is totally unexpected. He's never been violent with me, ever. Even when angry his 1st reaction is to retreat until he's calm then talk.

Although, fucking hell. A few weeks ago we were having sex, he tried to kiss me but was being a bit slobbery so I laughed and turned my head away, told him to get off, he was laughing and trying to kiss me, I was laughing and kept moving my head away from him so he couldn't kiss me, he kept trying. He said that was really turning him on sad At the time, I didn't feel voilated/forced at all, but did tell him off for saying that forcing me to kiss him was turning him on. He apologised and just said it was the look on my face when I was laughing. Looking back now, knowing this, just.. fuck. Horrible.

AF Yes i will talk to him. I could bear to touch him again, but only in a way that would probably get me arrested angry

Blatant The link he clicked on was very obvious. I would of course love to give him the benefit of the doubt but..
Yes, it was only the one page. There was no nudity, but he's clicked on a link that "contains images" (stated in the link) so that doesn't make one feck of difference.

I know he was on the pc a lot this morning, but the history had only registed 2 sites. So yes, possible that he has deleted things or uses inprivate browsing. But, he most often uses the pc in front of me and the kids.

How can I raise this "calmly"? I don't feel calm. I want to give him a chance to talk, but \i know he's tired and has manflu and will automatically be in a grump. He's currently asleep in ds2's room, after getting him back to sleep. If I just leave the pages open for him to see would that be better? Any advice welcome (if there can even be advice in a situation like this sad )

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 00:29:40

Leave the pages open ? No, don't do that.

My objection would be to him bringing stuff like that into the house. Apart from the morbid interest in rape, of course.

If there was any chance of dc seeing it, then that would make you no better than him.

I don't understand your reticence. Unless you are frightened of him, that would make sense. Not necessarily in a physical sense, but if he is manipulative and closes you down...that is just more justification for you to do it in the first place, isn't it ? (Assuming you and dc's would be safe)

BlatantLies Mon 18-Feb-13 00:36:35

But you can accidently click links so you need to find out more before taking too drastic action.

Do you have any security software installed on your computer that log sites visited further back in time?

Can you access the list of cookies and see if there are 'dodgey' looking ones.

I don't really know about his sort of thing but perhaps there isamore informed MN'er who can give you some better advice.

You could raise it with him by saying that the auto fill filled in the name of the awful site when you were typing something in and you wanted to check if he had visited it as you were worried it might be virus.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 00:36:48

Oh god no AF, dcs safely in bed. That would be horrific.

I'm frightened of his reaction, yes. We rarely fight actually, but I know when he feels cornered he might lash out (verbally, definitely not physically) and either shut down and refuse to talk to me, or make out that I'm the bad one for looking through his history. I couldn't handle that on top of this shock. He's asleep now, keeps saying he'll wake up but hasn't come down yet. So I either have to bring it up tonight when he's half asleep, or just go to bed and leave this conversation until tomorrow night.

I'm also scared to talk to him as I don't really see how there can be any justification for this.

MechanicalTheatre Mon 18-Feb-13 00:39:18

He sounds very manipulative. He has you too scared to ask him things openly.

That is not ok.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 00:41:49

Blatant I do understand what you're saying, but the link was on a lighthearted, vaguely pornographic site (so not likely to be hard hitting news report about the psychological after effects of assualt or anything)
and clearly titled
"Victims after they've been raped CONTAINS IMAGES

I mean, you couldn't click that without realising what you'd see sad

We use different browsers, so not sure he'd believe the autofill excuse. May try it though!

Apart from these 2 sites, nothing else dodgy on the history.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 00:44:35

Do you fancy the alternative though ?

You feel too frightened to raise it in case he turns it around and tries to blame you ?

Do you believe that would be justified ?

I think his opinions are actually secondary here

Do you have the type of relationship where what he says, goes ?

MechanicalTheatre Mon 18-Feb-13 00:53:15

Don't go into making excuses for why you were on there. You are not the one who needs to be making excuses.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 01:01:18

AF We don't have that kind of relationship, no. If anything, I'm the slightly more ahem vocal one. I know it wouldn't be justified him turning it around on me but it would kill my last bit of hope if that makes sense.

I do not fancy the alternative. We will talk about this. I am angry that I'm going to have to hold onto this for another day, and fake being fine tomorrow in front of the dcs.

Mechanical Thanks. I suppose I'm worried that the talk will get derailed into why I don't trust him, rather than the real issue. But, I suppose I shouldn't start worrying about that. I'm torn between asking him calmly face to face, or sending him a text tomorrow when I'm out so he has time to process things. I hope either way I could address it calmly, and if it is morbid curiosity I at least want to tell him how horrific rape is for a woman, not something to be gawked at for whatever reason, and how horrific it is for me, his wife, to know he was looking at that.

Thanks for listening everyone. This is such a shock. I'm torn between disbelief, wondering if I'm over reacting, under reacting, anger, sadness..

Dottiespots Mon 18-Feb-13 01:01:54

What is his job? Maybe someone he knows has been raped or there has been talk of it at work or something. I would also think I might go with Waffly on this one that he was just curious.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 01:04:59

but awsangel if you knew someone who'd been raped, why on earth would you be looking at links from a dubious website? Surely that would make it much worse??

Dottiespots Mon 18-Feb-13 01:09:55

so it was definately dodgy not something you would look at out of morbid curiosity.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 01:16:47

awsangel it could be either I suppose, but given how the link was titled, he knew exactly what he'd be seeing iyswim. If he was worried about someone he knew who'd been raped, it would be awful to look at some trying-to-be pornographic images of rape - what possible purpose would that serve? Surely better to research the psychological effect, how he could help them.

Anyway, as far as I know, no-one he works with/knows has been raped. It's not a subject that would normally come up at his work, and he's been off work for the last week anyway.

Sorry awsangel I feel like I'm attacking you, and I'm not, I'm attacking his possible way of thinking, hope that makes sense!

Interestingly, he always, always leaves his fb and email open. When I looked earlier this evening he'd logged out of both. (After our conversation about why random unknown women would try to add him on fb) hmm

Dottiespots Mon 18-Feb-13 01:44:47

Its ok, i didnt think you were attacking me for one minute. I was just trying to work out how bad the site was and whether it could just be curiosity even though it is a strange poss warped curiosity but curiosity all the same. But you have mentioned the fb page ......explain more about the convo with him re random women adding him. If you want to of course.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 01:51:32

This was my 1st thread about fb, sounds daft now!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1686732-Quick-Facebook-related-Q

YNK Mon 18-Feb-13 02:10:52

It doesn't sound daft to me. I think you need to listen to your instincts!

OutragedFromLeeds Mon 18-Feb-13 02:29:52

What strikes me OP is 'I looked at the site'. So you looked at it? To see what was there? To see what he was looking at? An innocent explanation as to why you were looking, yet you seem convinced that there could be no innocent explanation for him looking. I think that, in itself, is telling tbh.

Dottiespots Mon 18-Feb-13 02:50:38

ah....so could he have looked at something on a site then as his fb platorm was turned on it sent a message to his fb which he then clicked on which went to that site.........possible.

aurynne Mon 18-Feb-13 06:04:11

Hi, I can't speak for youir DH, but I can tell you a very personal story. I once was reading news about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. I was reading and scrolling down and tried to click on "next" to go to the next section of the story. However, between me moving the cursor and clicking the screen kept scrolling down - perhaps an image had not fully loaded until then, similar things have happened more times. But as a result of it I clicked on a dodgy banner on the side, and it took me to a horrible page with "images of rape" in them. I immediately closed it and did not give it a second thought.

However, the day after my back then boyfriend came to me looking really worried and asked me "why I had been looking at some horrible sites". When he brought it up I had no idea what he was talking about, but when he showed me my explorer history I immediately realized what had happened.

When I started explaining I realised how unbelievable the whole story must have been sounding to him, completely like an excuse. i even blushed. I am still not sure he believed me, but that is not really my fault: he was a controlling, very jealous person. Not until days had passed did I start wondering myself why in hell he was checking my online history.

I had no idea if this is the case, but if 99% of the other pages were normal, and only one showed this horrible content, I would be thinking "accident while clicking". Guys who like watching porn and extreme stuff rarely have enough with one page.

aurynne Mon 18-Feb-13 06:06:18

"I had no idea" should read "I have no idea" (and I should check my messages for typos before sending them...)

Buzzardbird Mon 18-Feb-13 06:24:30

I would not go in all guns blazing. There is a chance that this has something to do with him that you are not aware of. You could even use that you are worried about him as an opener and then if I am totally off on this one you can then let rip?

somewherebecomingrain Mon 18-Feb-13 06:50:59

i definitely agree morbid curiosity is a likely. he may have clicked on and clicked off in record time.

the fact that there are no other links shown as being read on the blog, it was the first one chronologically that he clicked on (ie he didn't scroll down searching for it), there isn't a stream of creepy web addresses on the history and that he didn't delete the history indicate morbid curiosity and happenstance rather than some compulsive interest in the subject.

i must admit i was looking at a 50s dress online shop that i stumbled on through mumsnet with burlesque-y looking models and then i clicked on the 'more info about model' link and found myself facing two ladies in corsets with their tits out!

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 08:40:28

I would talk to him face to face

The reaction you are carefully looking for when you look in his eyes is likely to frame how you take this forward

Pre warning him with a text simply gives him time to concoct a story and rehearse his demeanour

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 09:34:01

Thanks again for all the opinions. Talked to him last night.

Definitely not an scrolling accident/mistaken click. He said he often looks at one website as he likes reading the weird stories (nothing porn related, which I believe) He saw that link and thought "wtf?" and clicked on it, had a quick look. He closed it quickly though, and felt quite disgusted. Now I can kind of understand that, think it's horrible but morbid curiosity could explain it,, he said he felt really embarrassed about it.

However.. I approached him about it really calmly, but from the outset he was sighing and rolling his eyes, even before he knew what I wanted to talk about. When he realised I'd seen it, he explained himself as above. I told him I could understand that, and went on to say it was such a shock for me to see that that kind of site even existed and it was scary as a women to know he'd looked, he suddenly started getting pissed off and told me I was being a huge pain in the arse, and was I going to shut up soon? We'd only been talking for a few minutes hmm He wasn't interested at all in hearing my feelings about it, and just kept snapping if I tried to talk about it. He stormed out and slept in the spare room, saying he was "allowed" to talk to me like that, as it was his opinion and after all I'd been telling him my opinion. I just don't get it. I'd approached it calmly, no accusing, no insults, tried to understand what he was saying, and he talks to me like that? Did I deserve that?

He apologised a while later, but he doesn't really get it. He still thinks it was ok to talk to me like that, still thinks it was ok for him to be angry with me, when I hadn't even attacked him.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 09:43:57

Pressed a button there, dintcha ?

Why do you think he got so angry and defensive ?

HeySoulSister Mon 18-Feb-13 09:43:58

So sorry to hear this.

ThereGoesTheYear Mon 18-Feb-13 09:50:50

Alarm bells were ringing for me when you were nervous about approaching him about this. The issue is that he is training you not to make a fuss about anything ever. You're upset because he's looked at a really horrible website, something that's really shaken you, but he puts you on the back foot, worrying if he's going to start on you.
What would happen if the situation were reversed? Can you imagine him seeing, I dunno, a male escort site in your history? Would he be asking people how best to ask you? Would you be rolling your eyes and snapping at him? Or would you try to understand that he's been upset and seek to reassure him. Because you love him and don't like him to be upset or shaken by something you've done.
Ps The jury's still put on whether he's telling the truth, but I don't think it really matters. He's still not a nice man to be around.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 09:55:41

AF He gets like this every time I bring something up, hence me being worried about raising this with him. Knew exactly how it would go sad

Whenever I raise something he's apparently justified in getting angry as it's the wrong time of day to talk about it, or the tone of my voice is wrong, or I use the wrong words, or my face looks wrong.. etc etc. I often try to ask him to understand how something has made me feel, and he refuses.

When he's calmed down the next day, he'll apologise but if I try to resolve anything he gets angry again. So not much ever gets resolved.

I would be mortified if I'd made him as worried as he made me and would never dream of insulting him/shouting at him. Sorry for the rant. No idea where to go from here.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 10:03:01

Your husband sounds horrible

Who the fuck does he think he is?

Your face looks wrong ? hmm

ATJabberwocky Mon 18-Feb-13 10:06:38

Whilst I understand there is cause for concern at the content of said site, is there the possibility that he wasn't aware it was sexual, and in fact had an interest in how rape victims feel and begin to move on after?

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, naiive but ...

the only way to know is to confront him, it's clearly affecting your feelings towards him and making you think the worst, so i really would be best to discuss it.

With regards to the strange facebook requests, this happens to everyone, strange people adding you -which are clearly not real people and porn/spam bots. I even get them on FB.

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 10:09:50

Well just be very careful.

His general attitude to you raising issues sounds exactly like my h for a few years before his Internet sex activities came out.

The thing is, his attitude to you raising a problem with him is verbally abusive- ie he turns it round on you for looking, ie he receives criticism by counter attacking. This is as a result of low self esteem, but it still isn't on.

As the kids get older maybe more problems will come up and it is easy to get to a point where you deliberate for days before mentioning something as you know he will use anger to close you don't. Of course it is partly staged anger, and it is manipulative.

So that's a red flag too.

Poor you.

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 10:10:38

Close you down, I meant

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 10:13:34

As is always the way with things like this, when he's not angry he's very sweet, kind, unassuming, helpful, funny etc etc hmm But if we need to talk about anything to do with emotions/things he's done which have hurt me or look suspicious it's like a switch flicks.

Yes, my face looks wrong. Too angry (even if I'm crying for eg, or perfectly calm) Or "scary". Last night I was at fault for generalising that all women are scared of rape, apparently I sounded like an arsehole.

I do think that he's trying to "scare" me into not bringing things up, unfortunately I'm too stubborn/stupid for that to work.

fiventhree it is a bit shit isn't it sad

He's still in bed, fortunately. Wonder if he'll wake up as Jekyll or Hyde.

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 10:13:36

Shit,jus seen your 955 post.

Yep he's one of em....a manipulator . And likely a liar too. Likes to be in control.

Maybe you should start thinking and reading at least,

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 10:22:14

What a fucking miserable way to live

So now, what is his expectation ?

You STFU about his visit to a website that promotes "images of rape" ?? And that you never bring anything up again that is uncomfortable for you ?

What would you like to happen next ?

And how far from actual reality is that going to be ?

somewherebecomingrain Mon 18-Feb-13 10:22:20

I don't think he sounds like the worst person in the world - lots of men have problems with expressing/dealing with emotion. it sounds like there may be some 'issues' that are quite deep - maybe his mother emotionally terrorised him - made him feel guilty about everything - a bit when he was a child so he gets frightened when you get onto that kind of territory.

He sounds difficult but not a write-off.

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 10:22:55

It isn't good sock it isn't. I'm quite assertive myself and this was exactly like my h- down to the wit- before the kids got a bit older and his job got more high pressure.

After I finally proved his 5 years of Internet sex- that's how long he fooled me and denied my suspicions the 4 or 5 times I found anything- he changed a lot as he knew I was planning to leave. He admitted in joint counselling that he had always manipulated me. They do actually know what they are doing, and it is about control.

I wish, I really wish, I had read eg that book on verbal abuse- anyone remember the author ? and Cloud and Thompson on boundaries. The latter is written by Christians, which I am not, but it's very good. By the way, being verbal or assertive yourself doesn't mean your boundary control is good.

Please read those books. You are going to need them.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 10:23:57

Oh please spare us from the "his mother made him like this" claptrap

Why do people insist on blaming women for the crappy behaviour of men ?

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 11:02:55

AF I went down that road myself at first.

I think this sort of man usually does have a childhood which explains his behaviour, but the key thing which has dawned on me and which may be useful for the OP to remember is that it is simply not her issue. Her issue is to work out what it is he does and how to stop it. And how not to allow herself to change to fit in with his style . But definitely the 'why' in his past is his issue, if he can be bothered to think about it.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 11:06:07

I think OP's only issue is to work out whether she deserves to be treated like this. His upbringing is for him to work out, and certainly not for him to act it out upon those he is supposed to lovbe

It doesn't matter why he does it. The only question is should she be expected to excuse, rationalise and tolerate it, to the detriment of herself ?

I say, not

somewherebecomingrain Mon 18-Feb-13 11:27:56

anyfucker that's not polite debate.

i respect the point you are trying to make but not the way you made it.

Mothers usually bring up children - it's a simple fact. I know my mother in law made my DP both love & respect women, extremely competent at doing the laundry, and also to have a cast iron expectation that I will make him his breakfast every morning.

People's emotional weaknesses and strengths often have something to do with parents - not just mothers. But as we are talking about a male-female relationship here the mother is the obvious thought.

This is not the same as saying women are responsible for men's crappiness.

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 11:37:38

I say not, too.

But perhaps I am just slow, but it can take time to see all the bits of that puzzle.

First of all, it has to be recognised and named, and not seen as just some odd personality tick.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 11:41:58

SBR, It doesn't invite politeness when you effectively blame other women when men treat women badly. IMO, it needs picking up on at every opportunity.

I had a less-than-ideal childhood. Would I be justified in treating my partners and kids like I saw modelled as I grew up ? No. Would I expect someone to excuse me for it on those grounds ? No, again.

I just read the whole thread...

At first I was on the 'morbid curiosity' camp. I think that sometimes it just gets the better of us. If he were into rape scenarios I am certain there would be far more sites and images being viewed.

However, his reaction doesn't tallywith the above scenario - and that makes me wonder what he is up to. You said about his trying to force you to kiss him and that it turned him on - that is a little odd.

Either way it diesn't say like your relationship is a loving one. It doesn't sound like he is going to change at all. He is belittling you and domineering you. You need to decide what kind of a future you want sad

badinage Mon 18-Feb-13 14:08:49

Look it's patently obvious that this is all linked.

The strangers eager to befriend him on facebook, the arousal when you said no while having sex, the disgusting site that no normal person would click on and his behaviour when challenged.

It all amounts to a man and a relationship that need to be binned. You shouldn't give a fuck how he came to be this way and you certainly shouldn't be blaming his mother. If anything, blokes like this tend to model their father's behaviour, not their mother's but FFS he's an adult and a father.

A father who, what ever lines he spins to the contrary, is interested in rape porn.

Dottiespots Mon 18-Feb-13 14:08:53

He doesn't seem like a bad man. He didn't hide anything. You asked and he answered you but to him you then wanted to go on and make your point. Sounds like he just doesn't like you over talking things all the time. Don't think he's up to anything bad. Your relationship sounds good otherwise.

MechanicalTheatre Mon 18-Feb-13 14:12:56

At the very least you need to go for some relationship counselling so that he can learn to talk to you better.

It is not good to be with a partner who you are afraid to bring things up with.

Helltotheno Mon 18-Feb-13 14:23:10

He doesn't seem like a bad man.

No he seems like an emotionally manipulative, lying twunt though... is that different? <wide-eyed emoticon>

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Mon 18-Feb-13 14:28:00

Last night I was at fault for generalising that all women are scared of rape

He is saying here that he believes that there are women out there who would be welcoming rape.

So is it just the case he has not found the right one yet?

Not sure where he is going with that argument.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 16:19:45

I would agree that men like this tend to model their father. Still no excuse though. Many fucked-up men hate their father for how they were when they were children. Then go on to repeat the same pattern.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 18-Feb-13 17:52:09

This man has warped and sick views of sex and women sad

There are too many red flags going on and his defensive reaction really does speak volumes...

Kione Mon 18-Feb-13 18:46:25

I am not sure if you confronted him, cant read all the posts, but maybe he knew it was going.to be posed and fake? I have looked at porn before, I used to cluck on amateur as fake goobs, lips etc. disgust me and even most of the amateur looks posed... and well knowing it wad posed maybe he was curious for a laugh? playing devils advocate I know, but itwould be the nicest outcome of this...

Kione Mon 18-Feb-13 18:51:45

sorry I just read that you talked. he shouldnt speak to you like that but I'd believe the "wtf" theory

badinage Mon 18-Feb-13 18:53:41

maybe he was curious for a laugh?

Yes because a site that's clearly labelled "victims after they've been raped" CONTAINS IMAGES would be positively side-splitting wouldn't it?

Jesus wept...hmm

catlady1 Mon 18-Feb-13 19:21:52

I can sort of buy the "morbid curiosity" argument. I'll admit I've looked at some dodgy stuff in my time (although not pictures of rape victims, I don't think). I remember when we first got a decent computer at home, my mum used to look at some really odd, gory stuff, like videos of people doing stupid things and having accidents, or those sites with pictures of people whose heads have been crushed and stuff. She's not a weirdo or a serial killer or anything, she just likes to be shocked, she likes horror films and novels for the same kind of reason. Although, I would say that rape is a bit different, and I would have thought it more odd if she had been looking at murder victims or something rather than accidents.

The way he reacts to you bringing things like this up, though, and the fact that you're worried about doing so, is much more worrying to me than just this one site. If there were lots of similar sites in his history then I'd be more worried, although I suppose he could be using private browsing or something.

ThatsNotMySock Mon 18-Feb-13 20:20:20

Thanks again for the responses. Lots of food for thought. Can't stay on for too long, but just wanted to say I do agree with the "morbid curiosity" line of thought. And yes, no other dodgy/porn sites to be found, except for a pretty tame written erotic story, (he prefers this to anything visual, going from previous conversations) so not worried that he's got a strange addiction all of a sudden.

catlady he sounds like your mum, in the sense that he does like a lot of ghost/gory/mystery/strange happenings websites, so I'm hoping it was something that lead on from there that he very very much regrets. He was saying last night how ashamed he was of himself for even being curious.

I do, for now, believe his explanation. Only slept 2 hours last night, so not sure what it means for the rest of our relationship. I agree with the many other people who said his attitude to me is more worrying.

Mad He wasn't any more defensive and arsey than usual so I don't think he's hiding anything dodgy, just that his attitude/lack of respect to me is shocking. He often says that he can't deal with emotional stuff, can't empathise etc and if I want that kind of relationship I need to leave him and find someone else. Then 24 hours later he'll be saying he needs me, can't live without me.. I don't know which one to believe.

Since he woke up this morning he's been niceness personified. He mumbled "Sorry", since then nothing has been brought up, have been making small talk as normal hmm I'm currently having counselling alone as I thought the problems were all my fault. I'm not so sure they are now. He's previously said he'll come with me if I need him to.

We did have issues at the beginning of our relationship that I thought we'd sorted out, but at the time it was pretty tough, Lots of long conversations/arguing, break ups (me dumping him, him coming back) so maybe when I raise issues he gets a flashback to that and thinks we're going to be talking/shouting for hours/he's going to get dumped. It doesn't excuse it, just trying to grasp for reasons I suppose sad

five thank you for the book recommendations, I will look into those. Interesting what you say re boundaries. I always thought as I was so stubborn/assertive I wouldn't have any issues with boundaries, I think I was wrong! smile

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 20:29:19

Please don't invite him along to your counselling. For God's sake, keep some space for yourself where you can talk freely without being shut down and made to feel like everything is your fault

MN will be here when you need us again sad

MechanicalTheatre Mon 18-Feb-13 20:33:52

I completely agree with AF that you should not take him to your counselling. That is a massive boundary over-stepped right there.

dondon33 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:49:32

OP so sorry you had to find and deal with this and had it not been for his actions when you confronted him I wouldn't have given you this, I've thought 3 times before dishing out this info but something tells me I should give it to you.

Providing the computer IS NOT switched off this will give you all websites that have been visited since the PC was last rebooted - Including manually deleted and inprivate browsing.

>Start
>Run
>type cmd
A box will pop up where you'll see C:\documents and settings etc.. followed by a blinking _
>type in there exactly like this ipconfig/displaydns then press enter.
> a list should appear - I suggest you have a pen and paper handy to quickly write stuff down and you can check it in your own time later, especially if he's in the house.
>Once finished simply close the box

Please then go to the start menu after your finished and check that it's not there on the left hand side, on my laptop (windows xp) it is and it's called 'command prompt' so I must left click it and choose remove from the drop down list to make it vanish but I've just checked on Dp's PC (vista) and it doesn't show at all.

ALL MN'ers please note that simply deleting history or using in private is simply not enough if you have a computer savvy OH determined to find what you've been doing. SWITCH OFF THE PC after visiting MN or where ever else - then the above can't be used.

dondon33 Mon 18-Feb-13 20:54:05

*should say - I must right click (NOT Left click) then choose from the drop down box.......

badinage Mon 18-Feb-13 21:11:09

Believe his actions, not his words.

If there's one truism that women ought to live their lives by, it's that one.

MechanicalTheatre Mon 18-Feb-13 21:17:23

Too right badinage .

dondon33 Mon 18-Feb-13 21:22:05

Too true badinage
I learned this one the hard way.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 21:32:06

oh yes, indeed

that one piece of advice covers just about everything tbh

it would certainly make the relationships advice board a lot shorter

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 21:32:48

but dondon, where is 'run'?

I found it and tried this by doing a computer search for the word run, and it gave gave a few sentences of other info, eg ip address for my own computer.

dondon33 Mon 18-Feb-13 21:41:22

Ah OK I forgot it's different on different operating systems.
So for Vista - go to start- then on the bottom where you can type- write the cmd then enter - see if that works five What we're doing is called a Command Prompt.
I only know how to do with XP and Vista but could find out if you tell me what operating system you have.

dondon33 Mon 18-Feb-13 21:57:00

My DP just talked me through this one for anyone with windows 7 operating system -
>Open the Start Menu
>click on All Programs
>Accessories
>Command Prompt - the box as described above should appear.

OR

>Open the Start Menu,
>type cmd in the search box and press Enter.
Again box should appear

>Once the box is up using either option type
>ipconfig/displaydns
>enter

If anyone is adept at using Task manager on their computer, it can be accessed from there too

>Open Task Manager (CTRL+SHIFT+ESC).
>Click on File (menu bar),
>then press and hold the CTRL key while clicking on New Task (Run...)

dondon33 Mon 18-Feb-13 22:01:52

* What a goon I am !! smile
Just remembered on most op systems you can press the windows button on the keyboard together with R and it brings up the cmd box Doh!! grin
Hope that makes it easier.

DistanceCall Mon 18-Feb-13 22:05:49

It may be that he has some sort of rape fantasy or is somewhat titillated by the idea (as a fantasy, strictly as a fantasy. Many people - including women - have fantasies about rape and being forced/forcing someone else. And please let me stress the FANTASY aspect of it.)

He probably is ashamed of it, feels he can't acknowledge it or bring it up with you or with anybody, and reacted very strongly when you asked.

DialsMavis Mon 18-Feb-13 23:35:04

Sorry to thread jack, but Dondon how do you do the above on a Mac please?

Kione Tue 19-Feb-13 07:12:36

badinage, I said: knowing they where going to be fake, before that. Justvshows how ommiting some info changes the whole thing angry

nellyjelly Tue 19-Feb-13 07:33:11

The trouble is that the internet makes everything so easy. Before the internet anyone who sought porn or other dodgy 'thrills' either had to use their imagination or buy magazines and books. Far more difficult to hide.

So now, you might see a link and click on it, against your better instincts, or just curiousity and suddenly there it is in your web history.

Someone younger than I who FBs alot tells me she is sent quite disturbing images alot. People send this stuff to say 'look at how sick this is!' And people look at it. It is like rubbernecking at a car crash. Some people find it hard to resist.

He may have an obsession with violated women or just maybe he morbidly clicked a link. Probably knew it was wrong. So easy to do.

This happens alot. So many men I know have looked at stuff their partners wouldn't approve of but it is so easy. they are not all bad men. Everything so accessible on the Internet, easy not to turn away sometimes and one site leads to another then another and before long there is a whole dodgy web history.

He is being defensive because he knows it is wrong. Doesn't mean your relationship has to end. Establish some ground rules about what you are comfortable with but truth be told this area is a minefield.

dondon33 Tue 19-Feb-13 10:33:40

Dials I have no experience with a Mac, I've had a quick look and the best info I can find is -

>Open terminal (I have no clue how it looks nor how to do)
>Type the following -
>dscacheutil -cachedump -entries Host

or

>lookupd -cachedump -entries Host

Apparently it will only show info from the last day and not like windows, which will show since the computer was last switched off.

fiventhree Tue 19-Feb-13 11:05:25

Sock the book I mentioned yesterday is the Verbally abusive relationship- how to recognise it and how to respond, by Patricia Evans. You will recognise some of his tricks in it (some wont fit him) but crucially it will explain what is actually going on with him when he shuts you down and exactly how to put a stop to it .

The foreword of the book says every older teenage girl should read it, and I agree.

It worked fairly well for me, as it enabled me to stop tying myself up in knots trying to explain myself in different ways, when he was just trying to get me to STFU.

DialsMavis Tue 19-Feb-13 11:07:13

Ah ok thanks, was just asking for a friend obviously

ThatsNotMySock Tue 19-Feb-13 23:19:17

dondon Thank you! It's strangely reassuring to know I can use that info if I have to.

five "tying myself up in knots trying to explain myself in different ways, when he was just trying to get me to STFU" This is every, every fight we have ever had sad I ordered the Patricia Evans book as soon as I read that sentence. I've also checked out some links on verbal abuse and there's a lot there that looks familiar.

He actually apologised properly last night, we've worked out between us that what he looked at was horrible and misguided, he really regrets it and thinks a lot less of himself. I've told him that while I believe him about that, I am so exhausted of being insulted, told to shut up, ignored, walked out on etc every time he's angry or I raise something he doesn't want to think about. He's not often angry btw, but when he is it's always the same pattern. He doesn't know why he does it, but wants to change. I did a bit of research and passed him the bonus material from "Should I stay or should I go", as some of it seemed pretty appropriate. Hopefully it will make sense to him, and help him stop doing this.

I just feel a bit switched off at the moment, and not sure what I want.
Thanks for listening everyone, you have all calmed me down and given me some good perspectives x

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