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More upset by 'The Script' than the infidelity. Anyone else?

(63 Posts)
muddyboots Sun 17-Feb-13 00:50:22

This has the makings of a very long post so I'll try and be as brief as possible and avoid giving too much away about my RL self.

We have been together 12 years, married for 8 and have 3 DCs under 5.

Found out a couple of months ago that my DH had had a 13 month long affair. It ended 'physically' in the summer but they have stayed in very regular touch through daiily texts, favours etc.

At the same time, I discovered that a week after our DC3 was born he had joined a website and had been sexting other women and meeting a couple of them for sex.

All bad enough....but the thing that I am most pissed off about is the utter load of crap he has spun me since their affair ended!

We were getting along well and had just come back from a nice holiday, I was 6 months pregnant with a planned for baby when suddenly overnight he appeared to have some sort of breakdown....couldn't sleep or relax and then started with the old "Wasn't sure if he loved me, he wasn't happy, I was obsessed with the children, showed him no love or care, I didn't make any effort for him, he hated our house, the village where we live, wanted me to give up work as it was my shift work making him so unhappy (I am the main breadwinner)."

We had counselling which just didn't seem to help with any of our apparent problems(!) I just couldn't recognise the marriage that he was talking about, but I tried really hard to take on board what he was saying and we had regular date nights, let the children sleep over at relatives a bit more, stopped doing anything 'housework' related after DCs in bed (like folding laundry, washing up) as apparently I was obsessed with housework.

Meanwhile, his drinking escalated to 2 bottles of wine per night + and he would either get so drunk that he would pass-out on the sofa or he would pick an argument. Thankfully it was usually the former.

One night, I saw him drunkenly put his password into his phone and I discovered everything. I threw him out a couple of days later (once I'd collected the evidence) but he has pulled the "It's my house too, you can't throw me out" line so now we are living together as 'co-parents' with seperate bedrooms.

Since then he has changed. Suddenly, he is really attentive, adores our new baby, does his share of household tasks, massively interested in everything I have to say, is having psychotherapy, is open with his phone and laptop...

Although I am incredibly hurt by the affairs and the physical relations, I feel that I could possibly forgive him. I had a 6 week long affair 6 years ago (no sex) so I can appreciate how a friendship can turn into something inappropriate that is difficult to end. But I am really struggling to get over the 'script' that he has spun to me over the summer/autumn especially as it has coincided with the birth of our lovely baby.

So, (and thanks for sticking with me this far, I have left a lot out) anyone ever had any similar feelings? I feel really daft for considering forgiving the infidelity but not the emotional abuse. Most of my friends and family seem caught up on his actions rather than his words but this is what is hurting me the most.

Selba Sun 17-Feb-13 01:20:26

you sound as if you have rationalised everything in your head. You understand why he was unfaithful. You are not daft for considering forgiving him. It's very gracious of you.

4 things concern me
1) what is he doing while you are the main breadwinner?
2) what is he doing while you are doing the housework after you come home at night from working?
3) DO you love him and does he love you?
4) has he stopped the drinking excessively?

izzyizin Sun 17-Feb-13 02:39:26

'The Script' is an insult to your intelligence, isn't it? And made worse by the fact that you fell for it and turned yourself inside out to put right all the faults he claimed were inherent in your marriage - but which he'd only voiced since he'd become intent on getting his leg over with ow.

Forgiving him for having it off with ow who were foolish or desperate enough to believe his lies is one thing. Forgiving him for having lied to you and, more especially, coming out with his bullshit before, during, and after the time you gave birth to his planned 3rd dc, is another ballgame entirely.

I very much doubt I'd be able to forgive such colossal disrespect and I wish you well in any attempts you make to reach some accomodation with his betrayal whereby you can continue to stay married to him.

Daily texts and favours? Is that still going on? Are you okay with that? He sounds a bit of a nob to me.

izzyizin Sun 17-Feb-13 03:22:04

I somehow missed the 13month long affair confused

Aw jeez, what would be the point of trying to get over either his infidelity or his lies when he's going to do it again? And he will, honey.

muddyboots Sun 17-Feb-13 07:18:02

Thanks for all your overnight replies

Selba to be fair to him, (hollow laugh) I have a significantly higher salary but we both work full time. (although I'm currently on Mat. leave) I work long shifts so have more daytime time at home so that is when most of the housework gets done. His job is 9-5. He's only on a temporary contract.

He says he loves me, but when I read through his phone I read a lengthy conversation between himself and a friend about how the thought of spending the rest of his life with me was unbearable. He now says he was an alcoholic and in a 'bad place' and he just loves me.

I think I still love him although I'm not really sure who he is anymore.

The excessive drinking has stopped and now he leaps out of the chair whenever I need a drink or we've finished a meal.

Thanks izzyizin, that is how I feel 'insult to my intelligence' . I am so angry and disappointed with myself for believing it.

As far as I know tall all contact has stopped. The OW is in a new relationship which is one of the reasons it ended although I'm pretty certain that her now fiance was not aware that for the first 4 months of their relationship she was still texting her ex lover every day!

At the moment we are not 'working' on our marriage, just living together in a state of limbo whilst he has his psychotherapy and tries to work out why he has done this. I do say to him "It's nothing to do with me now, you do what you like as long as you don't involve me or the kids" so he could be contacting anyone. He says he isn't.

When we argue he doesn't seem to realise that its his words that have hurt me the most.

BesameBesame Sun 17-Feb-13 08:55:46

IMO words ARE actions.

Is it possible for you to talk with someone in RL so you can work out whether you want to stay married to him? I wonder if the dynamic hasn't actually changed OP - it's still all about HIM even though the Script is designed to make you think it's all about you.

So whilst he's on this journey of psychotherapy to work HIMSELF out, I would suggest you do the same. Who knows what might come of it, but something will.

EllieCook Sun 17-Feb-13 09:04:23

I don't think there are any easy answers to this, it's a tough situation. This is his "script" but it doesn't have to be yours. I agree with BesameBesame, it might be good to find someone to help you work out for yourself what you want.

You have the right to live with dignity and respect.

AThingInYourLife Sun 17-Feb-13 09:07:41

He had a girlfriend for well over a year and also had casual sex hook ups?

And some of this happened while you were pregnant?

He put your health at risk as well as the baby you were carrying.

It's not just feelings for a friend turned into an affair, is it?

He treated you like a piece of shit on his shoe for a good third if your marriage.

Now his girlfriend has dumped him he's realised which side his bread is buttered.

It's very much in his interests to get you back on side.

I don't this his affected contrition is worth a lot.

If he were genuinely as appalled and remorseful as he should be he would not have moved back into your home.

He's trying to browbeat you into taking him back.

This is not what sorry looks like.

Xales Sun 17-Feb-13 09:12:51

If he was an alcoholic he needs to bottle his ability to give it up with a snap of his fingers and sell it. He will make a fortune.

He is either still an alcoholic or never really was.

What he means is he was drinking as he had been dumped and was sad.

Nothing to do with you and how you treated him at all.

Have you faced that if she hadn't dumped his arse for another the affair may still be on going and it is easier to stay with you, the kids, your house wife skills and your money than to live in a bed sit alone?

Xales Sun 17-Feb-13 09:14:03

Oh and please think about a trip to an STI clinic to make sure you didn't CD catch anything.

Chavvytastic Sun 17-Feb-13 09:45:48

Hi I am so sorry you are going through this.

I have been through similarish back in 2008. H had an affair and met up with, chatted and had sex with various women he had met on the internet through meet for sex/casual liason websites. It had gone on for a few years.

The hardest thing for me was the amount of time it had gone on the hourly, daily, weekly realisation in my mind that whilst I was doing xyz as a mum and a wife he was out upto to no good. With those realisations comes the realisation of the lies and crap he had spun me.

My H did not make out he was having a breakdown but there were plenty of lies etc. He used to get me rushing around and changing the evening/tea time routine because he had to go back out to work in the evening, when in reality he was in a rush to drive an hour or so away to meet up with his lover or sex liason. It hurts and its humiliating.

For some reason (lots really) I chose to forgive and we have tried to move on. We have had some good times but the damage is done. The bottom line is I dont trust him. Tbh, things are pretty damn shite at the moment and there is now a lot of resent and that resentment has been building over the last few years.

Others may be able to work through a mess like this. We have tried but I have realised just this week (yes years later) that its never going back to how it was and that actually he must have really resented and hated me to be able to lie and do what he did - again and again and again over such a loing period of time.

If I could turn the clock back to the day I discovered this sham in 2008 I would do things differently. I would leave because there has been more angst and downs than ups in the past 5 years. If I had left him then the kids would have been younger and probably dealt with it better than if I do now they are teens. I, 5 years on would have moved on from all this crap instead of things still randomly springing into my head( I still get lightbulb moments of OMG so the day we were at Xs birthday picnic, he very probably lied about the "job" he had been called out to). I would be over the trauma of splitting up and setting up a new life and could even be happy whether that be single or with someone. Instead, I am still here mulling over the same crap. The lies more than the sex still get to me.

Sorry to be so down on this for you, others may be able to tell you they have come through the other side, but for me I live with regret.

fiventhree Sun 17-Feb-13 10:07:09

OP I feel a bit like you too and sometimes think I should have chucked him out. It's taken me a long time to realise that those MNers who tell you to get them to leave so you can think straight are right .

Mine was cyber sexing for 5 and a half years at least. He had to be practically thrown out in the end for him to admit it, and that was after a month at Relate. I have always had a feeling that I don't have the full story, but he insists I have.

That's 15 months ago now, and although he has made some efforts to change, he really has , there is still a fair amount of the old selfishness and lack of consideration there, coupled with his very problematic defensiveness if I raise an issue.

I don't think we are as happy as we should be, and I am over 50 with teens.

If I were younger and so were the kids I think I would make the break.

fiventhree Sun 17-Feb-13 10:11:26

And sadly because it went on so long I also have the lightbulb moments. Although because of the timeframe involved I just have to remind myself that there must have been so many lies, false info and blaming of me that the individual ones hardly matter.

badinage Sun 17-Feb-13 12:05:58

What's actually happening now? Are you separated but living in the same house?

If so, the only advice I can give you is to bring that to an end as quickly as possible. He can then go and 'find himself' in his own time and use his own money.

For this to have ever merited forgiveness, he should have moved out when you asked. All you are seeing now is someone who got dumped but who had nowhere else to go and nobody to go to.

In your shoes, I would be beyond furious that I'd been gaslighted this badly for so long and conned into spending time and money on counselling that was doomed to fail. But I genuinely wouldn't feel angry with myself at falling for any of it, because that would involve me being angry at a positive - the trust that's the bedrock of any successful marriage. Plus, your husband is obviously a convincing liar if he managed to fool a counsellor who must be used to seeing people in affairs and lying to their partners.

Thank fuck you didn't give up work.

Abitwobblynow Sun 17-Feb-13 14:46:38

Yes, this is normal.

The thing about the script is that it is about dishonesty, secretiveness and lies.

It is THIS that that ruptures the most fundamental aspect of a relationship, because a relationship is about trust and the assumption of 'knowing'.

This is why lies, secrets and the Script are so upsetting.

Abitwobblynow Sun 17-Feb-13 14:50:53

I am with you 5.

Sometimes, all the options are shit aren't they. I got sent a lovely thing on FB:
HEY!
If someone treats you like crap, there is something wrong with them, not you.
Normal human beings don't go around destroying people!

Abitwobblynow Sun 17-Feb-13 14:52:29

Sorry,

normal people don't go around destroying other human beings!

garlicbreeze Sun 17-Feb-13 15:28:32

Me, too, and it's why I'm so much more hard-line nowadays. IME most women (not sure if there is a genuine difference here for men?) who've been through it will agree it's the lies that do the real damage. Clearly it wouldn't be easy to deal with an immediate confession, but you would know what was happening. When you find your partner's been cheating on you systematically, you have searing evidence that he was prepared to ignore any thoughts or feelings of yours while keeping you on the back burner. That's not what we go into relationships for.

Once I know somebody is a liar with near-total contempt for me as a human and as their partner, I can't un-know it. Trying to live through it (I did, too often and for too long) makes you an accomplice in your own abuse. Either you see it all clearly, in which case your relationship is dead, or you join in with at least some of the scripted 'excuses'. This makes you degrade your own worth sad

If I could turn the clock back to the day I discovered this sham I would do things differently. I would leave.

Me, too. Nobody who abuses my trust and love has any further place in my life.

3mum Sun 17-Feb-13 19:08:48

garlic "trying to live through it makes you an accomplice in your own abuse".

God, so true! I struggled for months to reanimate my marriage after finding that STBXH was cheating until it dawned on me that I was the only one trying and that STBXH was still sneaking off to see the OW behind my back all the time. I remember the exact point at which I thought "This is the end, he is just abusing me".

I almost brought myself to a nervous breakdown trying to make something which was already broken work again. With hindsight I could have saved myself so much pain and so much recovery time by chucking him out when I first found out about it.

ImperialBlether Sun 17-Feb-13 20:20:04

Garlic, you are absolutely right. It's one of those light bulb moments, isn't it? I think most people accept that infidelity can happen. Through a long relationship there will be times when we feel unloved and tempted by someone new. We've seen it on tv, amongst our friends, in novels, even if we've never been tempted ourselves.

What I found the hardest was the fact that I realised I didn't know my own past. All those nights where I thought he was in one place and he was really in another. All those things he'd said that I thought were his ideas, that had been bounced off another. I truly felt like I was going mad. I didn't know myself. I didn't know him. I didn't know what was true and what was a lie.

And then you try to stay together, to get past it, but you can't. You just can't. I had huge chunks of my own life that were strange to me. Learning about them made me sick and yet I wanted to know.

Arrgh it doesn't do me any good to think of it now. I wish to fuck I'd had MN then. My life would be different now, I know that.

muddyboots Sun 17-Feb-13 20:50:22

Thanks so much for all your replies, especially those who have shared their own painful experiences. It's given me a lot to think about.

If he had ended the relationship, given himself a kick up the bum and then thrown everything into our relationship and our family then I would probably be working towards forgiving him by now.

Yes, badinage we are still in the same house and as long as we stick to safe subjects - the kids, the news etc. then we actually get along really well. I have quite low expectations of him now so he can't upset me anymore and I don't bother trying to please him or respond to his sulks.

I'm still on Mat leave and our baby is still fully breastfed so my DH moving out would make contact with our baby difficult.

He had apparently told the counsellor about the affair when he made the first appointment! But obviously hadn't mentioned that he was still in touch with his OW.

Don't worry xales a trip to the clinic was first on his 'to do list'! He wasn't using any contraception with her - resulting in a trip to the abortion clinic for her around the same time we decided to start ttc our 3rd last summer.

We've had a tough day today. I think as a result of reading your responses! I have made some bitchy and spiteful comments towards him. He has been sulking and has asked "What have I actually done to upset you this year? I am trying my best to be a good husband" and has accused me of trying to split up the family.

I wish I could get over this. I can't stand the thought of not seeing my DCs everyday (even when I work 12 hour shifts I get to see them asleep) but I don't want to be stuck with these same feelings in 5 years time either.

ImperialBlether Sun 17-Feb-13 21:03:57

Is he still in contact with her, do you know?

izzyizin Sun 17-Feb-13 21:09:11

What have I actually done to upset you this year?

Ffs!! The year's only weeks old and I would have thought that any epiphany moment he may have had would have been enough to tell him that simply having to look at his lying cheating face would be more than sufficient to upset you.

Twunt!

ImperialBlether Sun 17-Feb-13 21:11:02

He just doesn't get it, does he? He's living in his own world, probably feeling sorry for himself because he had to give up the OW "when it wasn't hurting anyone else."

A kind of "You think you're upset? What about me!"

ImperialBlether Sun 17-Feb-13 21:11:22

That's a quote from my ex.

izzyizin Sun 17-Feb-13 21:14:19

Feb 17 and he hasn't cheated once this year? Wowee, what a good husband he is hmm

badinage Sun 17-Feb-13 22:27:01

See, I know couples who've got past an affair but thinking about it, they were of the 'friends who turned into something else' kind of affairs. No hook-up sites and definitely no pregnancies. Brief infatuations too. But the main reason they are all still together is because the ones who cheated really got it and did everything to repair the trust.

Your husband doesn't get it at all and so this seems pointless. He can still see the baby for short bursts of time if he leaves and he can give you a break by taking the others out. I don't think living like this does children any favours so I hope you'll reconsider and stop putting any pressure on yourself to forgive. He really doesn't deserve it.

garlicbreeze Sun 17-Feb-13 23:06:43

I didn't know my own past. I didn't know myself. I didn't know him. I didn't know what was true and what was a lie.

Argh! Really well put, Imperial. Under other circumstances we'd call this gaslighting, wouldn't we?

I'm with badinage, OP - couples can create a NEW relationship, and it can even be better than the old one, but the absolute prerequisite is that the cheater really understands the extent of the damage they did. Your H, unfortunately, seems to be minimising the harm, dismissing your hurt and belittling your needs. I feel immensely for you - and am quite glad you've got all that baby-bonding oxytocin going on! Despite the strain & inconvenience of everything, DC3's probably shoring you up emotionally.

I've got to say the whole picture - OW abortion while H ttc with you; meeting women for sex as you gave birth; lying and blaming you; and now the early appearance of "What more do you want?!" - looks suspiciously like a man who's so in love with his penis, there's not much room for anything else in his heart. I do know what you mean, though, about getting along fine if you ignore the elephant in the room - the things that drew you together in the first place are still there, as is the family you've both created. It's pretty much as it always was ... only without the respect and trust.
Poor you sad

garlicbreeze Sun 17-Feb-13 23:15:40

I have quite low expectations of him now so he can't upset me anymore and I don't bother trying to please him or respond to his sulks.

Has he always been a moody, demanding git, or did all the trying to please him and sulking arise after his so-called breakdown?

AnyFucker Sun 17-Feb-13 23:24:40

There are some situations where infidelilty could be forgiveable, and a new start made on a marriage

This isn't one of them

OP, you take him back under these circumstances you are a fool

izzyizin Sun 17-Feb-13 23:26:03

With a man like this you're best advised to revise your expectations downwards.

If you've got no expectations of him, you won't be disappointed nor will you be surprised when he sets forth to stick his dick in ow conquer again as, I'm sorry to say again, is inevitable.

This is Narcissus, in love with his own reflection and intent only on pleasuring himself.

Blindedbyscience Sun 17-Feb-13 23:27:11

I know how you feel and have lots of sympathy for your situation. On paper, I should have left my marriage years ago. I haven't- we are still together. The difference being, my dh has never admitted anything. You can only do what feels right to you. Maybe some space would be a good thing to give you the space to think.

muddyboots Mon 18-Feb-13 00:06:32

Thanks everyone. Some of your posts have brought a smile to my miserable face despite the shitty situation I find myself in!

I have always tried to make him happy and put his needs above my own although this has increased since his 'breakdown' as apparently I was only offering him 'clinical care' as I would with any patient (I work in the NHS). I tried harder and did my best to respond to what he was saying he needed from me.

During our counselling sessions last summer he accused me of being a 'martyr' and trying to impose those values on him too....but that is what I want from a relationship. Somebody who always puts me first.

We have just had a row tonight about what more he could have done to make my weekend a good one. Apparently, I am adamant on destroying our family by holding onto this grudge and bullying him with my snide comments and digs when he is trying to change and is having a rough time with his psychotherapy! I have found myself doing this more and more in the last few days. Perhaps it is a sign that things do need to change before I damage myself and our children...

badinage Mon 18-Feb-13 00:09:50

Yes it is a sign.

His sign needs to have EXIT on it though.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 00:15:58

I am saddened by the way you have jumped through hoops to please an unpleasable man

Whatever you do will never be good enough, do you realise that ?

You are demeaning yourself, and teaching your dc some damaging lessons

izzyizin Mon 18-Feb-13 01:22:51

Aw, poor diddums. How could you be so cruel as to chide him for being a lying, cheating, tosspot when he's having such a rough time with his psychotherapy? <rolls eyes emoticon>

Things sure do need to change, honey. Start changing them for the better by kicking his sorry arse out of your home and let him navel gaze struggle with his demons alone.

And then get yourself some counselling which will allow you to vent your feelings which, due to your obvious sensitivity, I suspect are far more complex than the 'where can I find my next fuck' variety that preoccupy his dick mind.

Or vent here to your heart's content smile

ImverySad Mon 18-Feb-13 07:30:15

hi Guys, after reading all your comments I suddenly remember, I should ask this,

Is it ok if your P, does not allow you to use or look into his mobile phone? My P would somtimes, read my messages, but when I take his phone and start reading all the sms, he does not alllow it and would instantly turn it off. even if he is on his computer and when i stand behind him to see what he is doing, he would scold me for that. what is this guys, am i being paranoid or what?

AThingInYourLife Mon 18-Feb-13 08:11:32

"What have I actually done to upset you this year? I am trying my best to be a good husband"

shock

This year?

This fucking year?

That's six poxy weeks.

This self-indulgent, bullying prick thinks he gets to decide that everything g has to be OK now because he hasn't cheated on you, got another woman pregnant, out you and your baby at risk of disease, hooked up with randoms from the Internet in the last few weeks?

He is not trying to be a good husband.

You have told him your marriage is over.

The family he is coercing you into maintaining is a sham.

It serves nobody but him.

Yet again the rest of the family are being sacrificed so he can get what he wants.

He is not a good man.

He is horrible and he is damaging you and your children.

See a solicitor and start the process of getting this whiny, self-obsessed prick out of your house.

He is a leech. Sucking you all dry.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 08:30:23

He keeps his phone and internet use from you because he is up to no good

Going off his previous behaviour, I think that is obvious

meditrina Mon 18-Feb-13 08:42:46

I do think marriages can be mended, but it's only going to happen if both parties are totally committed to it and will really understand the scale of the task ahead of them. And the wandering partner has to take 100% of the responsibility for the damage they did (especially why they baled out to third parties instead of working at the primary relationship) and has to step up to the mark to get the healing of that well under way before you start looking at the 50/50 responsibility for the state of the marriage beforehand, which will have had good and bad points for both.

The lies, and the way that cancels out of a months of the marriage, is really hard to come to terms with. And his refusal to leave, to give you the time and space to process the information and work out whether he has any place in your family's future is a poor indicator.

AThingInYourLife Mon 18-Feb-13 08:48:47

Another poor indicator is that he's not remotely sorry.

Oh no wait, other than feeling sorry for himself.

Someone who has done a terrible thing they regret does not get angry with the person they have hurt for daring to be upset.

His behaviour is that of a man who thinks he has a right to have his multiple infidelities overlooked.

They can't be forgiven. Because he is not sorry.

Miggsie Mon 18-Feb-13 08:51:39

A man who alternated between taking his wife to the maternity unit and his lover to the abortion clinic is despicable and you need to throw him out.

Other than murder I really can't see how much lower he could sink - and I wonder why you think you have to spend time with him.

Leave him to rot on his own and take care of yourself and your children.

Chavvytastic Mon 18-Feb-13 09:58:21

Oh dear he sounds very me me me.

Its hard. I know I found it easy in the early days to carry on with the big elephant in the room. It was easier than facing up to the fact my life as I thought it was - was over/didnt exist any more. I wanted the my husband, the "happy family unit" etc I thought we could get through it.

Looking back he did try initially although there were times I doubted and became suspicious and asked/demanded to see proof of certain things and he declined - that was 12/18 months on from discovery. He always had a "good" excuse to decline my request but really - an honest man with nothing to hide, desperate to get their marriage back on track would surely bend over backwards to proove they were on the straight and narrow. That spoke volumes.

I now look back on the past 5 years and beyond (when he was cheating but I was blissfully unaware) and my life seems like a lie. I look at old family photos of us all on birthdays, days out and holidays and just think "what a sham - he was shagging someone else around that time". Seeing the pics hurt because I was blissfully happy. I look back and nothing in my life was how I thought it was. Thats how it feels.

The bottom line now is I look at my husband and I know I have lost all respect for him. In my mind he must have really hated and resented me to do what he did over and over and over. I don't think that is fixable.

My honest heartfelt advice is to get out and move on but I also know how bloody hard it is to actually do that - hence me sitting here leading a life that could have been very different and a lot less bitter.

plinkyplonks Mon 18-Feb-13 10:45:25

You deserve better and sooner or later he should leave. Why wait until its on his terms ... It all seems very much what HE wants. Make him leave and move on with your life.

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 10:51:36

He really is a prick. I did post about my own h but yours is way worse.

It's true, he really is all me me me. Out of interest, the changes you made to yourself after counselling are great, but also suggest that you were given some blame for his various infidelities. I hope you know that even though you may be responsible for some of the pre existing problems, you were not the reason he did what he did

He isn't making much effort, but he thinks he is making bucket loads.

You are a skilled and capable woman and long term you have loads of opportunities to think about exploring some of the poorly signposted but available career paths now opening up for nurses.

Do you really want him in your life?

fiventhree Mon 18-Feb-13 10:54:36

And AF is right- no way would I tolerate secrecy now. In fact, giving up any signs if possible secrecy has to be the number one deal dealer from day one after discovery.

meditrina Mon 18-Feb-13 11:39:02

What you might find is a biggie is how well he's treating you now. For if he felt love and respect and was prepared to act considerately, why wasn't he doing this all along?

It's a huge area of conflict in an attempted reconciliation.

Meanwhile, for as long as you are under the same roof, make sure he really is pulling his weight as a co-parent, and get yourself time to go and do the things that will strengthen you - whether that's wailing with a good friend, or rediscovering activities that make you feel good but which the demands of children all too easily squeeze out from daily life.

garlicbreeze Mon 18-Feb-13 11:45:37

Hi, ImverySad. AF's reply earlier was for you: "He keeps his phone and internet use from you because he is up to no good. Going off his previous behaviour, I think that is obvious." Sadly, your husband is an overbearing, cruel man who believes he has absolute rights over you while owing you nothing, not even respect or honesty. A lot of what posters have written on this thread could apply to you, too.

CockBollocks Mon 18-Feb-13 12:00:11

See a solicitor and make him leave - sorry but I dont think you can go back from this.

If its contact with the tiny baby you are worried about then maybe you could agree to him coming to you for that?

I really think the combination of everything he's done is just too much to forgive - how dare he be annoyed with you.

50shadesofvomit Mon 18-Feb-13 12:07:08

My xh had an affair last year. We have 3 kids, been together 13 years and he lied/gaslighted about it the whole time claiming mid-life crisis etc.

We considered making a go of it because of the kids and length of time we were together but too much damage has been done. We spent Jan living together but it's just not workable long-term. I need to try and get to the point we are amicable for the kids sake so I decided to make him leave so its easier for me.

I thought I loved him but having read up on emotional abuse I think it was hysterical bonding rather than love.

muddyboots Mon 18-Feb-13 20:15:30

That is how I feel chavvytastic that all those months, all those happy times and happy photos are lies. I keep looking through messages that I've sent him over the last 18 months saying "I hope you're having a good time on your night out" etc... And now realise what he was really up to!

But it isn't that, he was having an affair. Of course he was going to lie and cheat. They were in love/lust and it was exciting and he was flattered...but why did he agree to try for another baby?! He agreed the first time I mentioned it (we were on a weekend away together). Why did he have to take our children to meet her whilst I was at work?! Why did he let her by them presents? Why did he have to fuck her in our campervan? (she was single and had her own house).

But mainly why the fuck did I let him convince me that his breakdown was all my fault?!!

I have followed the advice of a previous poster (sorry can't remember who, I'm on my phone) and I'm seeing a counsellor tomorrow to try and work out why I would let somebody treat me like this and how I can prevent anyone from doing this to me again.

AnyFucker Mon 18-Feb-13 20:21:21

That is a very good move

garlicbreeze Mon 18-Feb-13 21:44:22

It is a good move, muddy. Having a professional listener to help sort out your thoughts & feelings can be an absolute blessing when your life seems to be tying itself in knots.

FWIW, the answer to your question may simply be that you love, trust and respect your chosen partner - as every decent person does - and reasonably assumed he was the same. When he started acting weird, you probably didn't want to think "the worst". That's normal, if not helpful.

As soon as you've opted for the Just World fallacy (which tends to feel right at the time, mainly coz we want it to!) you're setting yourself up for cognitive dissonance. After going through all this and seeing the light, you'll have plenty to congratulate yourself on: it takes a bit of moral strength. And then ... you'll be a little more sceptical, a lot more self-protective, and wiser to red flags and boundaries. It's not such a bad outcome really, especially when you think how much common sense you'll be able to teach your DC smile

Good luck. I hope you find the right counsellor for you first time!

Jux Tue 19-Feb-13 20:56:42

IME some people - some - think that once a semblance of normality has been restored after a transgression, then that's it. Business as usual. No further effort required, except maybe a few chores.

What they seem to fail to grasp is that their partner's feelings will be pretty similar to their own if the situation were reversed. This is not because they're too stupid to understand that, but because they don't want to, because that would involve them really facing up to the enormity of what they have done. So any little instance of their - deeply wronged - partner showing that things are not wonderful, any mention of what happened or indication that they may still be carrying the scars, will cause annoyance, resentment. "What, it's not over YET? Haven't I just done the washing up for you? For heaven's sake, talk about unreasonable."

I think you know what you need to do. Good luck. You will regain your joie de vivre, you will be fine and so will your children.

garlicbreeze Tue 19-Feb-13 21:45:47

I wonder how the counselling went, muddy? Hope it was both useful and not too painful.

In case it hasn't been all that clear yet, many of your respondents have, like me, ended up doing a humungous amount of therapy because the answer to your question "Why the fuck did I let him ..." turned out to be more complicated than what I outlined last night. It isn't always so.

Investigating one's own thought processes, emotional triggers and psychological profile can be pretty uncomfortable. Anyone who does it is, imo, much cleverer and braver than people who blunder on regardless, stirring up the same shit time and again. Your H seems to be one of the latter. You're the former. Right there, you have a compelling reason to believe you are, in fact, too good for him. You certainly deserve better!

Hope you're feeling all right smile

muddyboots Wed 20-Feb-13 20:28:50

Thanks garlicbreeze

muddyboots Wed 20-Feb-13 20:54:59

Whoops! Didn't mean to press the 'post' button!

I had a look at those links. Really interesting stuff and lots to think about.

We had a very intense conversation just before my counselling session about what he had said to me over the summer. Had he meant any of it? Did he mean it at the time? etc. Painful to hear but it has helped me to realise that I won't be the woman he wants me to be - Good luck DH with finding a woman who is willing to put her partner before her kids, love you unconditionally and be delighted with you even when you're sat on your arse surrounded by dirty clothes,remove all her body hair AND wear her sexy pants everyday! He did admit that a lot of it he had made up just to hurt me...mainly about me being a rubbish Mum.

The counselling went ok (first session so a lot of story-telling) and I think we will be able to work together. Have booked another session.

Thanks Jux that is exactly what was happening right at the time of your post! Are you in my house? He is annoyed with me because I don't want to sleep in our campervan (their love-nest) with him this weekend. "How can you hold a grudge against a piece of metal?" even though a couple of weeks ago he said he would sell it because he knows it's a big deal for me - and he's admitted it would be for him too.

badinage Wed 20-Feb-13 21:36:04

Why would you want to do anything with him this weekend? You're meant to be separated aren't you?

Are the lines getting a bit too blurry here?

muddyboots Wed 20-Feb-13 21:53:44

We are - but he wants to take the 2 oldest DCs away for the weekend. He keeps saying "Mummy can come too" and they look at me expectantly. We can get along ok when we stick to the safe subjects.

Anyway, he has moved some of his stuff out today. Big stuff that was taking up lots of space and says he will move out once the baby is weaned.

Abitwobblynow Wed 20-Feb-13 22:12:10

Jux:

What they seem to fail to grasp is that their partner's feelings will be pretty similar to their own if the situation were reversed. This is not because they're too stupid to understand that, but because they don't want to, because that would involve them really facing up to the enormity of what they have done. So any little instance of their - deeply wronged - partner showing that things are not wonderful, any mention of what happened or indication that they may still be carrying the scars, will cause annoyance, resentment.

is a Pullitzer Price discription. Not a word out of place. Thanks for putting it so well.

Skyebluesapphire Wed 20-Feb-13 22:40:39

I tried to say the same to XH, how would he feel if somebody had done this to him, but he just couldnt grasp it. Like you say, they cannot show empathy, because to do that would be to admit that they have done something terrible, which of course they cannot possible accept!

Abitwobblynow Thu 21-Feb-13 06:11:02

I really don't think the intention is to hurt. We just don't feature (I wonder if that makes it worse). I have always thought this is on the pain scale of ...
well, you can't talk about taking the pin out of a grenade, because you KNOW what will happen if you do that! A tiny little pin, a huge explosion...

They are so wrapped up in it neither of them think (and there IS resentment and self-justification in it. IC calls affairs an act of aggression). But the pain is enormous, can anyone think of an analogy to explain the lack of intent to hurt, and the hurt actually caused? It is so disproportionate I can only think in terms of nuclear explosions, what is taken away from you by adultery. Innocence being the hugest, I think.

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