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Naive to not have house in joint names?(47 Posts)
Long post - sorry
My OH and I have been together for a good 12 years but not married.
We each own a flat seperately but when pregnant with DD tried and failed to buy a house together, eventually a few months after i went back to work managed to buy a project house but only in OH's name - he told me that the mortgage company wouldn't accept me after having spent the last
year on maternity leave.
When we moved, I lost a close relative and was heavily involved in his care, and the legalities of his affairs as well as commuting and having a stressful fulltime job, i didnt take a great deal of interest in the new house as it just added time to my commute and I was to tired at the end of the day and i missed the last house / location.
OH also works fulltime but has done a lot of work on the house at the weekends with his father/brother - my
job at the weekend has been to take the baby out and keep her out, which has meant a lot of time at soft play, supermarket cafes and car parks - but also means we havent spent any time together as a family or as a couple.
Financially I have put just as much in as OH has. 50/50.
Im feeling a bit resentful because having not been involved in discussions on the house, I feel left out - I thought
we should be talking and coming to decisions together but he's obviously done that with his dad/brother when i've not been there, and to be fair I've been to tired to take much in a lot of the times he has asked me to take more of an interest.
Just feel upset really, oh isnt interested in getting the house put into joint names but not only have i spent my inheritance and got into debt on this, the mortgage is over 2k a month of which i pay half. He thinks I'm being unreasonable if i seem disgruntled :-(
Why does your oh resist putting the house in joint names? What will he lose by doing this?
I'm sorry, but I would be hugely wary of not having anything in writing formally to confirm your joint ownership of the house, especially since you are not married.
Incidentally, when you say you'd had a year maternity leave, were you still employed at that point? I really wouldn't have thought that a mortgage company would object to your name being on the original mortgage if you were on maternity leave. If I wasn't married to dh and we were buying a new house, my being a SAHM wouldn't preclude me from being on the mortgage or deeds - I wouldn't have thought? Especially if the mortgage calculation was as a result of my SAHMing based only on dh's salary. But I might be being incredibly naive abut the wa mortgages work these days.
When I bought my flat the mortgage company would only complete when I signed a document to say as well as my ex and them I had an interest in the property.
Worth getting it done
Don't pay any more for the house until you are a joint owner or you get married.
Where are you living ? In this house ?
Is er evidence of the money you have put into it ?
If he dies tomorrow you could be left with nothing, tho potentially dd could inherit from him .m
I'm on mat leave and we've just bought a house. The mortgage guy went on husbands wage alone for it as now I'd need to get a letter from work to confirm what hours I'd get to go back to. My babe is still on the mortgage even though its on his wages.
There's no way you're being unreasonable! This is really, really bad. Think about it if it was the other way round - wouldn't you want everything to be fair, 50-50, equal if yours was the primary name on it? So ask yourself why he won't put yours on it.
Do you have anything to show that you have put and do put as much into it as him? If you can't prove it, this could be v bad for you if you split.
I just did a quick on Google to confirm what I thought and you mortgage companies do pit non-working partners on mortgages, in fact they insist on it because it's much harder for them to sort things out if there are problems and there's another person living there who has equal say in the home but is not on the mortgage, IYGWIM.
It's outrageous that he's blocking this from happening and a big red flag, IMHO. It sounds not only sexist, like you shouldn't worry your pretty little head over it and just enjoy his possession, just like the house itself, but it sounds really devious and mercenary, like he wants it to all actually belong to him. I think he lied initially for some dubious reason and counted on you not checking. You really, really need to get some legal advice about this, it's shady.
Not wishing to worry you, but ... there was a legal case a month or two ago where a woman and her partner in a lrt split up. They had been together for something like 20yrs, had a home and business together - but because it was all in his name, not joint names, she was legally entitled to nothing.
The newsstory can be found here Unfair law for co-habiting couples highlighted again it is about Pamela Curran and Brian Collins.
Even if you're not on the mortgage (and when we had one with Nationwide, they had no problem with me being on it, even when I was a SAHM), you should either make sure you are on the deeds, or that legal provision has been made for you if anything happens to your partner.
I've not worked in years but always been on our mortgages. I am in Aus though.
Big red flag to me - what reason does he give for not putting you on the house?
hhmm - no, not on the deeds either. As far as monthly outgoings go, we have our own accounts, he pays the 2.1k mortgage - i transfer a couple of hundred to him, and i pay for everything else e.g full-time nursery, council tax, food, and all the other bills. For the big outlays e.g house deposit and builders costs i've transferred the money or got it out in cash. We try to make it 50/50.
There is no legal provision, ive asked and we've rowed over but its never happened.
I think he's a good guy, but i guess everyone always does.
im concerned now, because he has admitted before that he can be manipulative. But mainly because im clearly not protecting my own interests and what kind of an example is that to dd.
But what to do?
Tell him you want a legal agreement and if he is reluctant that is pretty fishy.
Please add up all income. If you are earning 40% of the total wage, you should be paying 40% of the outgoings.
If he refuses to put your name on the mortgage and deeds, refuse to pay (you are not liable to!), and split all other costs equally leaving him with the mortgage to pay plus his share of the bills.
You are absolutely not being unreasonable. I think you should seek legal advice. You are paying a mortgage on a house that you have no entitlement to in law. And it's absolutely right that you do not have to be on the mortgage to be on the title deeds and thus joint owner of the house. He isn't interested in having the house in joint names. This would ring huge alarm bells for me.
You need to get yourself onto that mortgage stat. if he won't make it happen, you need to sit down with a solicitor and work out what your position is - once you have someone to advise you, you could perhaps speak to the mortgage company - they are sufficiently wary of 'hidden' interests behind a loan that would prevent them taking possession, if it comes to that, that they should be interested in straightening it out. but their version of straightening out might be to withdraw the loan. really, you need to know if his account of them not 'accepting' you due to maternity leave is true - tbh, sounds like classic con. if they would do the mortgage in his sole name, on his earnings, there should be no issue doing it joint names. think of all the SAHM / SAHDs who have joint names. maybe you can speak to a mortgage adviser at the company, posing as a potential buyer in your situation, to see what their policy would be.
NB him paying the mortgage directly and you paying equivalent family costs quite possibly weakens your position. ditto him doing all the work on the house. if it came to court, he would use these things to erode your equity, if you didn't lose it all right off the bat on the papers.
As you are not married and are not named on the mortgage/deeds, the house is his alone and, as such, he can require you to leave at any time and you will be forced to comply.
If you subsequently wish to bring suit against him for repayment of any sums you have put into the purchase of the property, you will be required to fork out a considerable amount to instruct a solicitor and will be required to prove your claim in law by means of copy bank transfers, etc, if you are to have any hope of obtaining compensation.
As he's shafted you over not putting your name on the mortgage, you're best advised to seek legal advice as a matter of urgency and put a charge on the property which will prohibit him selling it without having satisfied your claim.
What it comes down to is that you're living in his house and, from what you've said, have no way of proving you're contributing to the mortgage repayments albeit that, presumably, you have evidence of any lump sums you've made available to him to facilitate the purchase of the property.
He is really not a good guy.
He tricked you into paying for a half a house that is entiry his and you have no claim to it.
That was a lie he told you about the mortgage company, BTW.
You were working. They would have had no interest in your previous maternity leave.
Insist on getting your name on the deeds.
And then LTB
When consulting a solicitor, seek advice as to the most effective way of ensuring your dd's future by way of joint/mirror wills or similar should anything happen to one or both of her dps.
You say you row but what's his argument? He doesn't want you named because...? I can only think of 1 reason
Just to confirm what everyone else has said, we have owned three different properties and some of the time I was a SATM and my name was always on the deeds.
Please get this sorted out for your sake and your DC's. I hate to say this, but I have big alarm bells ringing. You sound more like a lodger......
You can have a charge put on his property by a court if you can prove how much money you have put into the house. I did this with an ex who owes me a lot of money, now when the property sells I get my money before he gets anything. It's worth bearing in mind if things do get nasty.
He lied about the reason for not adding your name. The mortgage company may have refused to take your salary into account when deciding how much mortgage loan they would give but that is a completely different issue to whose name goes on the deeds.
I would tell him this is important to you and your future and get your name put on the deeds now, if you're committed enough to each other to have kids why not get married anyway?
This has got naff all to do with the mortgage. My BIL put my sister on the house the day she moved in. You just ask your solicitor to sort it. I would insist and get him to call the solicitor today.
You've been well suckered by this man and he has lied to you to re the mortgage company not accepting you due to being on mat leave.
I would argue that he will never marry you now nor put your name against this property. He has probably also fed you the line that you and he are fully committed to each other because of your child. Well no actually; he has financially used you and you have taken his words on trust without seeking to date your own independent legal advice re the implications of doing so.
In the event of a split what is his is his (i.e this house) and what is yours is yours. You write that financially you've put 50% in; can you actually prove this?. Saying this is not good enough, you need evidence. If he was to die suddenly the house could well go to his next of kin in this case his father and brother, not you. You and your DD could well be reliant on their goodwill.
The best thing you can do now is seek legal advice asap.
So you aren't actually paying the mortgage? He pays it and you pay the equivalent sum towards living costs? This is really bad. You potentially have zero legal claim to that house. You have no evidence that you have contributed to it more than a couple of hundred £ a month. You could lose your entire investment. This is serious. Get legal advice.
OP, this is terrifying for you
You and your dc can be put out on the street by this man
and no, no-one thinks it will happen to them, until it does
What on earth are you thinking ?
Stop paying anything towards his up keep and ask for his half of food, childcare, bills etc. id he complains tell him you can go back to 50/50 when your name is on the house. If he refuses you have your answer...
He only thinks you're being unreasonable because he has no intention of letting you have any say in 'his house'. As you are unmarried, if you were to split up now, you would have no more claim on the property than a lodger. This is a very serious issue .... you need your name on the mortgage, the deeds, utility bills, a will, insurance policies etc as a first step. You should also draw up with a solicitor some documentation that acknowledges your investment in the property and what share of the property you technically own.
Make that appointment and get legal representation. Don't take no for an answer
No marriage. Not on the deeds. Zero legal commitment from him.
Basically you are screwed. He can walk away pay you a % of his income for any children that are his and unless you can prove any deposit you are not entitled to anything else.
What happens if he dies?
"Stop paying anything towards his up keep and ask for his half of food, childcare, bills etc. id he complains tell him you can go back to 50/50 when your name is on the house."
Don't do that.
Don't give him any notice that you are going to stop acquiescing in being ripped off by him.
Gather evidence of your contribution, anything that indicates there was an understanding that it was your joint property.
And see a lawyer ASAP.
This is serious.
Oh god, so you just transfer the money or give him cash? You have shelled out so much money and have zero proof that a single penny went towards anything concerning the house. Legally, he owns everything and you won't be able to claim said single penny back as you can't prove what you gave it him for. Word of mouth counts for nothing.
There is simply not a single good reason why he's done this to you. The reasons are all negative, dubious and extremely worrying. You have been duped, badly. I fear that it'd already be too late to get any cash back, if necessary.
Are all the bills in your name, as you pay them? This actually sounds even worse - he owns the property, you have zero legal entitlement to it or proof you have contributed to it, but you are liable for any debts accrued because of it!
Forgot to say I wasn't on the mortgage either as I apparently earned not enough at the time. 6-12 months later I was on the mortgage.
It was a simple solicitors form and a requirement of the lender
Agree that you need legal advice urgently. He has effectively lied to you to persuade you not to get your name on the deeds. Then covered his tracks by ensuring mortgage payments are traceable only to him. Alarm bells here.
Agree with Athing - start gathering evidence of your contribution now.
And rereading your post, it seems as though you spend no time together as a couple. How does he behave to you generally? You say he's asked you to take more of an interest in the house yet denied you any ownership of it.
I agree with saying absolutely nothing to him until you have sought legal advice. He sounds dreadful. But seek legal advice before challenging him. He has proved himself a man not to be trusted as he misled you re the mortgage and title deeds.
"we have our own accounts, he pays the 2.1k mortgage - i transfer a couple of hundred to him, and i pay for everything else e.g full-time nursery, council tax, food, and all the other bills. For the big outlays e.g house deposit and builders costs i've transferred the money or got it out in cash"
you are basically a lodger with no rental agreement; and a lodger who kindly gives him gifts to spend on the house he and he alone owns. so kind of you!! even if you pay bills - this is just like a lodger/renter.
you have zero rights to anything. was there anything documentng what money you put into th deposit on the house? anything at all?
the only proof of joint ieterest is his name on birth cert - but that doesnt prove much... you need to take all your evidence you can gather to a lawyer pay the 150£ for an hour advice and pronto ...if he dies in an accident tomorrow you are completely stuffed. if he walks out no your even more so
I think you should get to a solicitor pronto.
What records do you have eg bank statement, of transfers to his account?
Just to say I agree with everyone else - see a solicitor pronto.
I just bought a house a few months ago with my OH whilst on maternity leave. The mortgage company certainly do give you a mortgage, I just needed a letter from my employer stating that they believed I would return to work on the same terms and conditions.
He's lying to you. I have no income, and had not had any for several years prior to our house purchase.
I am still on the mortgage and deeds as a joint owner.
You are classified as an 'excluded occupier' and can be asked to leave the property at any time.
Any money that you have paid towards the mortgage would be taken by a court to be evidence of an agreement for you to live in the property as long as he permits you to, but is not considered evidence of an agreement to share the ownership of it.
Please seek legal advice ASAP.
Sorry, but just to clarify what a couple of people have said; even if there is any evidence of your contribution to the mortgage, this is not evidence of any claim to the ownership of the property.
Where has op disappeared to ?
Seeing a solicitor or CAB,, I hope
because you have put 50/50 in cash towards the house you have a legal interest enforceable by law ... if you split you could take him to court to get these funds back or compensation its called a constructive trust I think (forgotten all work things as on mat leave).
I would ask him exactly why he doesn't want it in joint names? if he is worried about not protecting his interest you can draw up a deed of trust which dictates what will happen when you split.
hope this helps!!
oh and the document the mortgage company make you sign is just to say you will vacate if they have to reposess it does not protect your dp and certainly doesn't protect you!
You could talk to your solicitor about a Declaration of Trust. I am doing this with my husband for various reasons, I contributed a very large deposit and he has the mortgage. I didn't want to be on the mortgage as I don't work and don't intend to work full time( at least for the foreseeable( and it's a reasonably small mortgage), so he can pay it himself quite easily.
A DoT makes it clear legally what my financial position regarding the house is, regardless of my signing Deed thingy for his mortgage company saying I have no interest in the property. Those other Deeds (Deeds of Consent I think they are called) are to protect the mortgage company if the mortgage defaults and they want to sell. DoT means if he played up should we split I can use it in court to argue any case.
But this will mean your partner has to play ball and agree to sign one, which sounds like it could be a real problem. We are very happy, and trust each other !00%, but it was my husband's idea just for my protection if the unthinkable happened. I truly think in your case you really need to see a legal bod urgently, and certainly don't tell him yet, as Viviennemary says..
Just seen what ontradiction has said above, same as I'm attempting to, but far more succinctly!
Madeline But presumably your name is on the deeds? This is the real issue here- not whose name is on the mortgage.
Paying a solicitor now to draw up a deed of trust or getting joint mortgage or name at land registry is going to be a lot cheaper than a complex and drawn out TOLATA trusts of lands act case . Go to solicitor, get forms drawn up and present them ..., deed of trust if you married and all assets deemed joint is different anyway. If you not married you need to be sure to make your claim on property legally watertight should anything happen. And this is accidents etc not just splitting...tell him that if he dies you get nothing. Is that his plan?m
richman your name can't be on the deeds without being on the mortgage not as an owner.
- there are v exceptional circumstances when it can be the other way around but too complicated and no need to explain here!
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