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Is he depressed, jekyll and hyde - or just an arse?!

(93 Posts)
Sc00byD0 Sat 09-Feb-13 19:08:57

Apologies in advance if this is long.

Background: together since we were 19/20, married 20 years, 2 DCs 12 and 9. Both early 40s now. I work FT in a job I love, on a good salary. He has his own business which has been very up and down, and over the past 2-3 years more down than up. He works alone mainly.

He constantly puts me down. He resents my job; every argument we have seems to come back to my job "taking over". I do work often long hours, have to stay away the occasional night, sometimes catch up on stuff in the evening etc. But my salary is important as his income fluctuates. he is rude and abusive about my (female) boss, she is the "manc bitch" (she's not even from manchester, and he has met he about 4 or 5 times in 8 years). He constantly brings up the past - I'm far from proud of this, but I had a ONS not long after we married, and even now, nearly 20 years on, he still brings it up and basically blames me for all our problems. I thought we had moved on from that - afterwards I went through loads of shit with him (a lot of drunken behaviour, he broke my wrist, phoned prostitutes when pissed), but thought we had got over it, went onto have the kids etc. All was good until the last 3-4 years.

I am constantly accused of depriving him of sex. Depsite the fact I am "useless in bed", "just lie there", "never give me oral", he expects sex everytime we got to bed at the same time. The other night I was really tired and said no. He went into a complete childish sulk and proceeded to bad mouth me for the best part of 30 mins. This happens quite often and I end up giving in. Then he moans because I'm crap in bed.

He regularly bad mouths my parents which he knows winds me up. They are pretentious, ignorant and thick apparently. In the last few weeks I have been called an idiot, an imbecile and unclean.

Every evening he goes to the pub after work "for the company because you are so unsociable and don't talk to me". I just have nothing to say. He never asks me how I am, how my day was, if I talk about how I am feeling he immediately turns it around to him. He also says he goes to the pub because he spends all day "in the cell" - meaning his office, where he works alone, and gets company at the pub. He has 3-4 pints every evening, comes home about 7.30/8 - by which time the kids are dealt with and in bed - I've done homework / tea / bath / wind down time. Sometimes he comes home late after drinking much more, and that's awful.

I suspect some of this is down to stress because of the business, also my FIL died late last year after being diagnosed terminally ill early last year, so that has been stressful too, of course.

I don't help the situation - I do clam up when he's at home, I can't look him in the eye, I often will walk away if he starts on me, which winds him up even more. Or when he starts on one, I can't just sit there and take it and I argue back.

He can be nice. It's just the two personalities are hard to deal with - not knowing what sort of mood he will be in when he comes home, what his day has been like, whether anyone who owes the business has paid (if they haven't, it's hell), if I'm late its a nightmare etc. He does help with the kids if I am away early or finishing late, but often reluctantly.

This all sounds bad doesn't it?

RandomMess Sat 09-Feb-13 19:11:26

Sounds awful sad sounds like you are incredibly over grateful for the few times he is being reasonable sad

deste Sat 09-Feb-13 19:17:01

If a friend told you this about her marriage what advice would you give her?

Lueji Sat 09-Feb-13 19:18:09

Worse than an arse.

LTB and don't look back.


He has no reason for what he does. Nor his business (which maybe is down because he's an arse with customers too), nor his dad dying.

Of course, you argue back, and of course you walk away. And of course you clam up.
Those are normal and healthy responses to verbally abusive people.

The healthiest thing for you to do is to free yourself from this life.

Sc00byD0 Sat 09-Feb-13 19:22:45

deste - I would tell her to get the hell out!

I just feel bad for the kids - they've done nothing wrong, but they hear a lot of the crap thats thrown both ways (if I don't walk away, my arguing back is not pleasant, but I can't stand being called names or having people I know called names). When I have said (several times) I want to separate, I get 'the kids can't come from a broken home' line.

Last summer things were so bad, and I was feeling so low, I went to see a counsellor, who was fab, rational, and just someone to cry with. No-one else knows what I am going through, they see what they think they see on the outside. She made me see my job is my lifeline - the one thing I am bloody good at, which does make me happy, gives me freedom to be me.

Although apparently I always look 'fucking miserable' when I go out in the village.

random - I wouldn't say grateful, its just when he is nice I probably just feel relieved? If that makes sense.

Lueji Sat 09-Feb-13 19:24:04

Oh, by the way, he sounds like my ex, who supposedly had depression and social anxiety.
He would bad mouth my parents, say I was stupid (a PhD, a good job and he actually asked me to sort out things for him), and expected sex on his whim and complained about it too.

Eventually he turned physically violent.
And you have already had a broken wrist by him. Even being in the past, it's there and it is likely to happen again.

TeenyW123 Sat 09-Feb-13 19:25:42

I suggest you read the "My ex is a prick" thread. You may recognise your husband in a fair few threads.


Sc00byD0 Sat 09-Feb-13 19:27:39

sorry Lueji, took me ages to type the last post so missed yours. I'm trying to sort the kids out as he's at the pub!

He's an only child, and I am sure that doesn't help (sorry to any only children, its just my thought) - the dad situation means it does all fall on him (me) to deal with a grieving MIL, paperwork, etc. But this has been bad long since FIL became ill.

I suppose I also feel I have failed somehow.

Hissy Sat 09-Feb-13 19:27:45

Listen to Lueji!

There will now follow a complete thread that will tell you he's abusive and you need to leave.

These posts are all correct, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change your soon-to-be-ExH.

It will only get worse. You have to get him out of your life ASAP.

We all want them NOT be abusive, but they are and we can't change that.

Write him off as the bad deal he is.

Hissy Sat 09-Feb-13 19:29:22

There's only 1 failure in your relationship, and it's most certainly NOT you!

jelliebelly Sat 09-Feb-13 19:30:35

From reading your post I would say just a arse...

Sc00byD0 Sat 09-Feb-13 19:31:02

The wrist thing - in his defence (i know!) - I had broken it at work in a genuine accident a few weeks before, and it was still weak as they think in hindsight I came out of plaster too quick. He grabbed me by the wrist as we were arguing about the ONS again (it was only about 6-12 months after that). He hasnt shown any signs of violence since, although has raised his fist on occasion, and I have goaded him by telling him to go ahead. But he hasn't.

Today he was in an arsey mood as I was late home with our DS this morning from his activity, by which time H had 'done all the housework in this dump with no help at all".

Lueji Sat 09-Feb-13 19:31:43

The fact is that your life and the kids' will be better without such a negative factor constantly in your lives.

You can find all the excuses you want (or he wants), but the fact is that he is abusing you.

My ex had 3 brothers, a seemingly normal family life, no major events that could justify any of his behaviour.
But I felt sorry for him and supported him throughout his "illness".

Hatpin Sat 09-Feb-13 19:31:49

When he says "the kids can't come from a broken home" he means " if Sc00by kicks me out people are going to find out I'm an arse"

Which he is.

peeriebear Sat 09-Feb-13 19:32:57

Your DCs will probably do a dance for joy when you finally LTB. They're already IN a broken home.

Mumsyblouse Sat 09-Feb-13 19:34:03

The good thing here is that you have everything going for you, including a great career and a good relationship having been the primary carer. The bad thing (from his point of view) is that you have woken up and realised you don't have to live like this. He sounds absolutely awful and I'm sorry but I don't think coming from a broken home is worse than listening to the names he calls you and the way he treats you. I would restart counselling to give you the strength to go forward, I think in all honesty is that what you want.

Branleuse Sat 09-Feb-13 19:34:40

id say being an arse was actually being nice. He sounds like a total wanker


This is emotional abuse.

People always seem to think abuse leaves bruises, cuts and scars... But it sounds to me like you're walking on eggshells and he's making you feel small. What an arse.

Lueji Sat 09-Feb-13 19:36:17

He hasn't shown any signs of violence since, although has raised his fist on occasion,
He has shown signs of violence. That is violence.
One day, he will hit you. I expect particularly when you are about to leave and he feels he's losing whatever degree of control he has over you.

And you are minimizing the wrist thing. He must have grabbed it hard enough.

seeker Sat 09-Feb-13 19:39:28

He has shown signs of violence. He has grabbed you by a wrist he knew was injured. He has a raised his fists to you more than one.

Leave. Now.

Sc00byD0 Sat 09-Feb-13 19:39:59

I know you are all right. I do permanently feel like I am walking on eggshells as I dread coming home / him coming home because I don't know what mood he will be in.

When I am on a later finish at work (my job is not always in an office, I travel a bit) - he asks what time I am coming home and I always say the answer he wants to hear, which is wrong because then when I'm late its a nightmare.

I have told him he is emotionally abusive before. It gets me nowhere.

I'm weak but want to be strong.

OverlyYappyAlways Sat 09-Feb-13 19:41:50

He sounds vile. He is abusive, please do not fall for the 'parents staying together for the dc' line as it is doesn't apply when abuse is in a realtionship.

The DC should be removed from having to live with it.

I stayed with my abusive ex for too many years blaming illness, work, deaths, stress, anything and now my DC have to go for counselling as one only knows violence and the other is just very anxious all the time. My eldest is 12, he said had I not left his Dad he wold have 'ran away from home by now'.

He is not really there anyway is he ? If he is at the pub when they are awake our doing the single parent thing already, you just have a husband acting like an added child, I was the same, it's bliss without him, no more waiting to judge those moods and walk on glass!

We also tried counselling, I was a nice for a year, out of 16.

OverlyYappyAlways Sat 09-Feb-13 19:42:44

*it was nice

OverlyYappyAlways Sat 09-Feb-13 19:42:45

*it was nice

Lueji Sat 09-Feb-13 19:45:02

You have been incredibly strong to put up with it for so long actually. smile

And I suspect that you only need to put your mind to it to leave him. Do be careful, though.

Oh OP I do feel for you.

But I can tell you NOW, I trained as a child counsellor and children are far more damaged by angry words thrown between their parents regularly than living with just one parent who is positive and loving. Honestly, I cannot count the number of adults I know who have such a warped idea of what a relationship should be like and their role in it, just because all they saw growing up was negativity and emotional abuse like this. Right now, this is what you are teaching your children "normal" is.

Please please do yourself a favour and leave him, and make sure the children are protected when you do so. You can build a new and happy life. Do you have family and friends to support you?

Sc00byD0 Sat 09-Feb-13 19:53:13

I think in my mind I have made plans - or maybe had dreams. I need to understand the practicalities I suppose.

I am prepared to be completely adult, with no mud slinging, just pure sense - to make it easy for the DCs and maybe me too.

He's just come home. All nice and friendly.

Well if you really want to show him that you are strong, make plans now to leave this useless waste of oxygen asap. Womens Aid as well can help you, I would urge you to call them as well as your family and friends and make a new life for yourself and your children. They have also seen and heard way too much already in their young lives and staying with your H will only bring you all more misery.

He is not abusive because he is an only child; that is not the reason why at all and its far more complex than that. He has instead and undoubtedly learnt many damaging lessons as a child from his own parents about relationships. He likely saw one or both of his parents being violent towards each other. What do you know about his background?. Were you in a bad place yourself when you met?. He targetted you if that was the case and took full advantage of your kindness and naiveity.

Abusers can be nice sometimes and can also be very plausible to those in the outside world. They do nice/nasty very well. Its a continuous cycle however.

Walking on eggshells is to my mind another way of saying living in fear.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.
Honestly, what has kept you within this misery for so long?. Fear, shame, embarrassment?. Any perceived shame and embarrassment you may feel is totally misplaced.

Your marriage is broken and your children are already in a household that is broken through his actions. What do you want to teach them about relationships, surely not this pitiful excuse for a role model?.

amillionyears Sat 09-Feb-13 19:57:23

May be a silly question, but do you still love him?

"I am prepared to be completely adult, with no mud slinging, just pure sense - to make it easy for the DCs and maybe me too".

Please be careful in your dealings with him. Ensure you secure the best legal advice possible and also the best solicitor you can afford.

He won't be adult about a separation at all; he will do everything in his power to keep you where you are and get revenge on you when he can for having the guts to leave him. Abusers like him do not let go of their victims easily and he won't likely let you go at all easily. You need a careful escape route out; this is where Womens Aid can also help you. Please do call them.

"He's just come home. All nice and friendly".
Typical behaviour for someone as abusive as he is. He's following the time honoured abusers charter.

wordyBird Sat 09-Feb-13 20:03:07

I'm sorry Sc00by. He is a textbook abuser. And he's got you accustomed to blaming yourself ( I don't help the situation/ I goad him )..which is also textbook, and very sad.

There is no real point in telling him he is abusive: he will tell you he is fine, that you are the problem; that if you will just change everything will be OK. He is deluded, and has no insight into his behaviour.

It's good that you have employment, and are making some plans to free yourself. You have a head start.

Be warned though, that your reasonable, no mud-slinging, make it easy for the children approach - while perfectly correct - is not likely to be reciprocated. I'm just speaking from what I've witnessed.

Sc00byD0 Sat 09-Feb-13 20:03:17

I'm going to have to disappear for a bit now.....but I promise I am listening to everything you are all saying. The sad thing is I know you're right, but I'm weak. I need to deal with this.

I feel a sense of relief of having shared. I will also book another counsellor appointment (haven't been since Oct) to help me breathe.

Thank you

Letsmakecookies Sat 09-Feb-13 20:04:01

Your H is an abusive arse. You are walking on egg shells and are unhappy. This is no way for you to live and no way for your children to model relationships on. Every paragraph of your OP made me feel heart broken for you. He forces you (emotionally) to have sex with him, he broke your wrist, he goes to the pub every day and when he stays late it is awful as you say. He bad mouths your parents and boss and essentially is trying to isolate you from family and work.

When was the last time you felt happy doing anything at all?

Have you thought about seeing a therapist just for you, to have someone neutral to talk through all these things with and see how you feel with that?

You deserve to be happy and you deserve a lot more than this.

Lueji Sat 09-Feb-13 20:06:07

What Attila said.

wordyBird Sat 09-Feb-13 20:09:14

Take care and see you later Sc00by. When you feel up to it, olgaga's blog is a good starting point re the practicalities

amillionyears Sat 09-Feb-13 20:24:46

I dont think you are as weak as you think you are.
You are not coming across as very weak to me.

When you are away from him, my guess is you are not weak at all.

You havent failed btw.
His behaviour is not good however.

Hissy Sat 09-Feb-13 21:17:49

Scooby, you'll get there when youre ready.

Don't wait too long, go as soon as you can.

Whenever you need us, we'll be here, helping and encouraging you to be just that bit braver.

Stay safe, stay close to MN, and definitely yes to counselling.

arthriticfingers Sat 09-Feb-13 21:38:30

Scooby, while you are thinking, have a look at the links at the top of this thread:

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 09:22:21

Morning everyone, and thank you for taking the time to reply.

I had an early night, this week has been a long work one, and also I feel mentally exhausted. Actually slept better than I have for a while (usually wide awake for 2-3 hours in the dead of night) - maybe the relief of actually 'talking' to wise MNers about this.

Every single post you have all written makes sense, and I can see what you are saying - it's not my fault (but it will be), I am unhappy (but so is he), I'm crap in bed (but he wants sex anyway), etc.

Attila, I have said several times I want out, but he just laughs at me and says we can't afford it, we would never sell the house, what about the children, etc.

Million - you're right, I'm not weak, I can be strong. If you could see me in work mode, you would think I am a different person. Confident, good at my job, dealing with a small team, client demands etc.

Cookies- when was I last happy? I'm happy when it's me and the kids, spending time with them, and I'm happy when I'm at work. Then I go home, which is fine when it's me and the the kids, but I do dread him coming home, as I don't know whether it's good mood or bad mood.

"Attila, I have said several times I want out, but he just laughs at me and says we can't afford it, we would never sell the house, what about the children, etc".

He will only realise that you are serious about leaving him when you actually decide to follow through on leaving him.

Telling him several times you want out just hands him even more power and control, such can only be issued once and if they are not followed through lose all their power. He knows you don't mean it because you have not followed through on leaving to date. This hesitation in leaving is also because you've become ground down and somewhat conditioned to accepting to date his ill treatment of you.

pictish Sun 10-Feb-13 09:37:44

OP I'm sorry to read your posts. Ypur dh sounds dreadful.

I think it's fair to say that it's time for the marriage to end isn't it?

Pagwatch Sun 10-Feb-13 09:42:09

Life is short. You sound lovely - a woman with a career and children and the capacity to have a happy fulfilled life.
How many more years are you going to let slip by with a man who does nothing but make you feel sad?

Pagwatch Sun 10-Feb-13 09:44:02

Do you really, really understand that you deserve better?

Hissy Sun 10-Feb-13 10:53:47

You're only happy when he's not with you.

With a man as you describe, it'd be impossibe to feel any other way.

You do deserve SO much better, and so do your children.

Please make more plans, please put some verbs into your life and make it happen.

You are so lucky, many women in your position DON'T have the independance you have. You can do this.

What you can't do, is KEEP doing what you're doing.

amillionyears Sun 10-Feb-13 12:51:50

What does he say about the marriage
Does he pretend that everything is ok?

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 15:25:32

I am lucky to have financial ability to make ends meet, I recognise that. I have lurked on MN enough to hear of awful stories where that is not an option. I can't carry on like this, it's wearing me down more and more. I actually look forward to Monday mornings, because I can go to work. Sad but true.

Right now, he has gone to the pub to watch the rugby. Doesn't know what time he might be back (even though the rugby will be done by what, 5pm?). Not to worry about dinner. I hate sundays, it often turns into what I call silly sunday, where he drinks too much and then is abusive because I'm fed up and miserable when he comes home.

He thinks everything will be ok, because the business is picking up slightly (but cashflow is shit), we have the house and the kids etc.

Might do some research smile

amillionyears Sun 10-Feb-13 15:30:35

Does he think the business will be ok, or your marriage will be ok?
Or does he only really care about the business?

amillionyears Sun 10-Feb-13 15:31:40

Realistically, is he at all willing to put effort into the marriage?

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 15:48:14

Good question, I'm not sure about whether he thinks that if he business is ok, then we will be ok. Money has been a big stress point over the past 2-3 years, because he has only been able to pay himself irregular small amounts. I earn good money, but it's not enough to cover all outgoings (especially when he spends at least £100 pw on beer and fags).

So we have at times been behind on the mortgage and other bills (all up to date now), but it has been a worry about putting diesel in the car / food on the table. His mum gave us some money when his dad died, which has helped clear some business debts and given us a cushion, hasnt helped the stress still being there.

He says I need to make an effort too hmm - talk to him more, not work all hours, spend more time as a family etc. I've just lost the will.

TurnipCake Sun 10-Feb-13 15:56:23

My ex grabbed my wrist once - funnily enough, it was also injured at the time.

I hardly slept, I had a long-standing cough which had started 6 months into our relationship (I thought it was due to damp in the flat). Years of abuse continued.

I eventually left. The cough almost instantly stopped, I started sleeping again, I'm so much happier I couldn't even quantify it.

It's sometimes hard to see at the time when you're in the middle of the storm, but believe me, things could be so much better for you OP, you must believe you deserve it, you really do.

amillionyears Sun 10-Feb-13 15:57:17

He is being unrealistic.
He doesnt realise the damage he has done to the relationship. No idea at all.
And, for some reason, he isnt appreciating your financial efforts. Probably I suppose, because is ego is damaged?

The one thing I can see his pov a bit about is the going to the pub bit.
He works all day, more or less alone. That is lonely and isolating. He is going to then need company and socialising.

I am getting the idea, rightly or wrongly, that you do not have much enthusiasm for leaving the relationship?

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 16:09:44

I think you're right - I think his ego is damaged. I regularly get "well I was earning what you were 12 years ago" - yes he was, but he left that job, went to another on less money but with apparent prospects, then decided to set up on his own - which I was fully supportive of. Actually, its apparently been my fault he set up the business because I encouraged it.

I do understand his work is lonely. He sees the PT driver a couple of times a day, and the odd courier, but thats it. Although he could go out and see some customers (he used to do that a lot). Then he goes straight to the pub from work. Why not at least come home and spend time with the kids, even if not me? They often don't see him during the week, because when he gets home they are in bed, or about to go to bed. But every day? When I have picked them up, we get home and they say "daddy won't be in, he'll be at the pub" - thats hardly healthy for them to think that is it?

I do have enthusiasm to leave, believe me. I just need to get brave and act. I have spent too long trying to convince myself things would change. I suppose thats why I posted, because I wanted some support and views as to whether this is all my fault.

amillionyears Sun 10-Feb-13 16:54:39

There is a book I sometimes recommend

"Why women Talk and Men Walk" How to improve your relationship..

But, I think both parties have to want to improve the relationship, and be willing to.
I am not sure that you want to, and I am not sure he is willing to.

I didnt realise that he doesnt even come home after work to see the kids while they are still awake.

And no, as others have said, you have tried hard for the relationship.
He has not been trying hard at all lately.

wordyBird Sun 10-Feb-13 17:00:56

His ego and his wants are all that matter to him. Even his children don't register as important, since he doesn't see them - deliberately avoids them, apparently.

You are there to serve his requirements, or take the blame for anything that goes wrong in his life. No wonder you can't talk to him and feel too tired to act, Scooby!

This is definitely not your fault. Do take a look at the link arthriticfingers posted, as you will recognise your H there. But I would start to take more concrete steps out. A free half hour with a solicitor would be well worth your time, just to start the ball rolling.

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 18:10:41

He pops in for about 5 minutes each evening to placate say hello, then off out. So I am left with the whole bedtime routine. Its not difficult, due to DCs ages, but its still all down to me to ensure homework done, reading done, tea eaten, clean, teeth, bed - oh and referee when they fall out!

DCs spend a lot of time in their bedrooms when we're downstairs. Yesterday H balled out DD for disappearing upstairs (she had been down here with me) as soon as he got in from an afternoon out with DS. Says a lot really. That was my fault too for mollycoddling her. Then he went to the pub! shock

I have read the link - thank you ArthriticFingers - and the verbal / emotional abuse sections rang so true. It's not just me is it?

arthriticfingers Sun 10-Feb-13 18:31:41

No, not just you by a long chalk, scooby.

amillionyears Sun 10-Feb-13 18:49:14

Your children are 12 and 9.
What are they saying about dad, apart from the going to the pub bit?

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 18:54:48

DS calls DD an idiot regularly - probably hears H say that to me. He is quite insolent sometimes towards me - does and says things he would never dare say / do if his dad was here. I often say to him "would you say / do that if daddy was here?" - and the answer of course is no. That said, he is an amazing DS, and I am very proud of him - I had a lady I know come up to me only yesterday and tell me what a credit he is to us. I can be a bit sort tempered with them, I think when I'm stressed, but I often get an out of the blue cuddle (esp DD) which is lovely.

I don't know what else they say / think about him tbh. Its not the sort of thing to discuss. But they must hear a lot of shit, which I hate, and because sometimes its me when I bite back, I'm ashamed of that.

AnyFucker Sun 10-Feb-13 19:02:21

Wouldn't you be better without him ?

From reading your posts, I can't see one positive he brings to your and the dc's life.

nurseneedshelp Sun 10-Feb-13 19:16:44

Blimey I found this hard to read because my situation was very simlar, I didn't think we would ever be free of my vile abusive ex but I kicked his sorry arse out and got an injunction.

I've never been so happy and relaxed.

The dc's are relaxed and their teachers comment how much happier they are!

Been with my new dp for just over a year and my life is so so different. I'm with someone who loves and respects me.

If I'm late home from work there are no arguments anymore, I have a bath ready and a glass of waiting for me.

He's gets up with the dc and let's me have a lie in, my ex never did that, ever.

You and your kids deserve so much better! Listen to AF and Izzy they really do make so much sense and put thinks into perspective!

Jux Sun 10-Feb-13 19:22:52

No, I can't see any positives either. And your ds has learnt to treat his siter like your dh treats you, and may well treat his girlfriends like that, his wife, his own children.

End it, get the whole lot of you into therapy and put a stop to it.

"DS calls DD an idiot regularly - probably hears H say that to me".

Of course he does, he and his sister have seen and heard far more of their Dad's war against you than you would perhaps care to admit in their young lives. Are you really that surprised?.

I wrote earlier that both your H and yourself are teaching your children damaging lessons about relationships. That is still happening now and if you do not act this pattern that they are learning will repeat itself in their own adulthoods (your son will be emotionally abusive like his dad and his sister will become an emotional abuse victim like her mother currently is).

Where is your own tipping point Scooby?.

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 19:32:57

I'm now feeling like the worse mum in the world, why I have allowed this to happen? Because I'm scared? Because I'm weak? Because I think staying and dealing with shit is easier? Because I know he will make things hard? Because I'm worried about the DCs (although I totally see where you are all coming from that actually its worse to stay).

He's been out now for 5 hours, rang an hour ago to say he would be 20 mins, he hasn't eaten since a sandwich at lunchtime, yet will have been drinking. At least DCs and I have had a lovely roast chicken smile

AnyFucker Sun 10-Feb-13 19:36:10

He is going to come in pissed and belligerent, isn't he ? sad

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 19:39:05

Yep - I expect so. Deep breaths.

You are not the worst mum in the world so park that thought as of now. Abuse in insidious in its onset and he's taken many years to bring you to this low point you are now at.

You've probably stayed to date for a whole host of reasons; the ones you've listed as well as fear, shame, embarrassment and the hope he would one day change. Reasons for not readily leaving are many and complex and making the decision to actually leave is very hard.

Where do you see yourself in say 6 months time?.

Jux Sun 10-Feb-13 19:48:20

You are not the worst mum in the world, but your eyes are open now. It won't be the easiest thing in the world to do, but hang on to what Atilla said at 19:25 about your children's futures and you'll get throughh it.

Keep yourself safe. Keep your children safe. Make a plan. Photocopy all important documents and stash them at work, along with passports etc.

Phone Women's Aid, and let them help you make a plan. Good luck. You can do it.

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 19:49:35

Thanks Attila, I do see that it has taken years to get to this stage, and I do feel low. And I think fear, shame and embarrassment is definitely part of it too.

Six months time? I would like to be on a beach with the DCs grin - own house, pink or purple bedroom (!), not worrying if I havent been arsed to do the housework, and just smiling. Relaxed. Happy.

AnyFucker Sun 10-Feb-13 20:06:37

OP, have you heard of Boiled Frog Syndrome ?

You are not a bad mother. He is a bad father.

You can improve your children's lives though, and remove them from his damaging influence. Lots of women do, and they never regret doing it.

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 20:22:55

Thanks AF - I hadn't heard of that before, but Wikipedia has put me right. And I understand what you mean by it.

He's still not home. I'm trying to relax but can't. It's a crap way to live.

I can do this

teresa2003 Sun 10-Feb-13 20:34:23

This is my first ever post so sorry if anything is wrong.
He sounds vile & exactly like my ex partner who i split up with before xmas after 14 years.We have a 9 year old who took it quite badly at first. Even though dc use to ask me if we could not live with his dad because the atmosphere was so bad & we got to the stage where we would avoid going home because he would start shouting the minute we were together in the house.Once you decide you want to leave you have to put your mind to it.I had no money of my own as i was never keen on leaving dc with ex partner for long periods of times so worked in school hours.Luckily my mum helped me to move out & i even though it is hard to be a lone parent at times it is the best decision i ever made.Only regret is that i did not have the guts to do it when dc was a baby for his sake rather than mine.

Being on edge constantly, stomach churning, never feeling good enough all typical symptons of living with a bully.

AnyFucker Sun 10-Feb-13 20:44:29

Yes, treading on egg shells is a crap way to live

is this what you envisaged as your life ?

Worrying and fretting about what sort of mood a self-entitled fuckwit like him is going to come home in ?

Watching and waiting to see how much he is going to take his own twattery out on you and the dc's ?

You deserve better than that...anyone does

Sc00byD0 Sun 10-Feb-13 21:22:02

Well, he came home at 8.30, so been out for 6 hours. Worse for wear, but not rolling drunk. Trouble is he gets mouthy when like this. He 'only went to watch the rugby' and I pointed out it was finished by 5, but of course he got talking and someone bought him a drink, so he had to buy one back etc etc. then started bad mouthing one of my friends. She's not a close friend, but part of the girls group I'm in, we meet once a month, and see each other locally a lot too, some of them are school mums too. Apparently she loves herself, loves it up her and probably gives a good blow job, but she's a bitch. Completely went off on one, even though I was trying to ask him about why he was so late, she was a totally ireelevant part of the conversation. He does that all the time. Most of my friends get slagged off for one reason or another. It's all part of the script isn't it?

I've left him downstairs, am in bed. He's playing music loudly, probably deliberately, he'll fall asleep in the chair,then eventually come to bed and snore all night. Fucking shit.

foofooyeah Sun 10-Feb-13 21:28:26

Scooby - just wanted to say I recognise a lot of what you say and I too am in a situation that I know I need to leave - but doing so takes a lot of bravery.

I hope you manage to make that decision - and I hope I do too

foofooyeah Sun 10-Feb-13 21:31:50

x post

I think when he is slagging off your friends its because he is jealous of people who you like and get on well with. Classic needy behavoir.

AnyFucker Sun 10-Feb-13 22:05:10

he's a misogynist twat, really, isn't he ?


ThereGoesTheYear Sun 10-Feb-13 22:39:53

How do you feel about another 40 years of this abuse? If you think that it's inevitable that you split before you die, why not do it now whilst your children will feel the benefit?
Your children have plenty of childhood left where you can show them how to live in a harmonious household without the regular verbal abuse.

CocktailQueen Sun 10-Feb-13 22:53:06

Oh, he sounds horrible. Sorry, but you really need to think about leaving him. What s he doing for you? Just - yuk.

Hissy Mon 11-Feb-13 07:14:07

"DCs spend a lot of time in their bedrooms when we're downstairs."

Sweetheart, your children are SUFFERING! Please see this. It's the opposite of what life should be for them.

Think about the memories of their lives that they are creating to look back on.

Get that man OUT of your lives, as everyone here will tell you, you'll never regret it.

Jux Mon 11-Feb-13 08:21:16

He bad mouths your friends because he wants to make it not worth your while seeing them, so that you become isolated. If you are isolated not only do you not have an outlet for your worries/fear about him, but you then have less 'normal' to compare your life to. Then you start to believe whatever crap he spouts, and you become more invested in appeasing him, keeping him happy by acceding to his every whim. As AF said, boiling a frog.

Please contact Women's Aid and make an escape plan. You could be like teresa2003 in no time! Gird your loins, keep your chin up, and prepare for life and freedom!

teresa2003 Mon 11-Feb-13 11:45:32

It is hard to make that decision & leave but as Jux says you will have a life & freedom. The point is that if you have a "normal" relationship you dont have to worry yourself sick about having his favourite tea ready or whether you have vacumed that day (like i used to do).

I also looked at this from dc,s perspective as he also started staying in his room as soon as dad came home.That is one of the reasons i made myself leave as my father was verbally ( but at times physically) abusive)to my mum ,me & my sibling.As the eldest child i started to "stick up" for mum which made me a target as well & i remember as teenagers we would promise to help with housework & be good if she would leave my dad.As she was mainly the breadwinner i could not understand why she would not leave.

I know that a lot of men are not abusive in a physical way (my ex wasnt) but hiding away as a child because one of your parents is being mistreated is still very damaging & not healthy.

I can now understand having been in a similiar situation to my mum & many others how you do start to feel trapped.

My mum is now remarried but does regret not leaving my dad when she was younger.She was a great help to me when i told her i wanted to leave my ex as without her help i would of had to contact womens aid helpline.

Also my dc can be beligerent with me although he is always very sorry afterwards.I can understand why though as dc has witnessed his dad calling me names & shouting at me since he was a toddler.However i am trying to stop this behaviour & always tell him that is not acceptable to talk to me (or anyone)in a nasty way.Hopefully being in a calmer home will eventually put a stop to this.

thepixiefrog Mon 11-Feb-13 13:40:59

Hi, sorry I don't have time to read the whole thread, but I just wanted to add my support, and say that your DC need to be removed from this environment ASAP.

My DM and not so 'D'SD were like this. By the time I was 19 I had attempted suicide 8 times, and I put this down to the abusive home environment. DSD was also abusive to me and my siblings, not just my DM, so the situation may be a different one to yours. Please don't underestimate the damaging effect of this on your DC.

DM finally left a year ago, after 20 years and she has never been happier. We miss him a bit, when he was 'Jekyll' he was amazing, but when he was 'Hyde' he was truly terrifying and I am glad he is out of our lives.

thepixiefrog Mon 11-Feb-13 13:46:20

Also, you need to protect your own relationship with your DC.

When I had my own DC I was knocked flat by the realisation that DM had not protected us.

I am in therapy, but I cannot work through the anger that I feel towards DM. Real gut wrenching rage that overwhelms me at times. Our relationship is well and truly ruined.

Show your DC what self respect looks like and leave. It will be the best thing you ever do for them. Hugs.x

NicknameTaken Mon 11-Feb-13 14:51:21

Hi OP, I've been there, and it's a miserable way to live. It's not going to get better.

Lundy Bancroft's book "Why does he do that?" is often recommended on this kind of thread, because it's really helpful to understand the dynamics.

He is abusive. There is no point telling him so, hoping he'll understand. All you can do is leave, or get him to do so.

In your shoes, I would go to a solicitor before you do anything else. You want to avoid a situation where he portrays himself as the person who does most of the childcare while you have a high-flying career, and so he tries to get the children to stay with him, having you support them financially while he remains in the family home with him. I'm not saying that to panic you - he may not try this, and even if he does, there are ways to deal with it - but it is really important to get proper legal advice.

thimblena Tue 12-Feb-13 22:49:45

Hello Sc00byD0 - I woke up thinking about you this morning. I'd posted on here last night about a problem I had and received from great support for what was just trivia compared with what you're going through.

You're being abused emotionally, physically and sexually. Make it stop. Be the woman you are at work; take control; protect your wonderful DCs from him.

Women's Aid, a solicitor, family and friends - tell them all; get them all involved. You have no reason to be ashamed; this is not your fault. Support is waiting for you - just reach out and it'll be there.

He is an arse.

Arse. Arse. Arse.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Tue 12-Feb-13 22:57:23

This is so sad, and anger-making to read.

You are so much better than this "man". Ugh.

OverlyYappy Wed 13-Feb-13 14:16:45

It takes a lot of balls/courage to leave. I found it easier to stay tbh

Like another poster has said though she attempted suicide due to being raised in abusive environment, my reason for staying was to keep my boys lives from disruption, my eldest is now depressed, he is 12, he also has IBS from worrying.

He was upset when we split, crying and saying he loved his Dad (begging him to stay), 2 years on he doesn't want to see him. (he isn't allowed by SS anyway)

OP I realise it is very difficult, just a thought, when I attended The Freedom Programme there were others there who were still with the DH/OH, doing this programme made one realise her DC and herself would better off out of the marrriage and she left her OH, he knew she was coming to the meetings. I myself couldn't do this as I had to account for every minute of every day and I somehow thought Womens Aid were a bunch of rottweilers or something, I have had support for a year now and that's my time with them finished.

Me making the decision never to see my ex again was the hardest decision I have made but the best. We walked on egg shells/glass for too long, now it is just me and my DC and so much better, we do what we want, when we want, if we don't want a full dinner we don't, if we want loud music we do, I go to bed when I want, even our dog is happier.

I'm a bit like a loose cannon just now as I was controlled for 16 years but it's great! I understand it is very difficult but honestly wish I had left years ago, W. Aid can help you with an 'exit plan' - how to move out safely.

targaryen24 Wed 13-Feb-13 15:49:12

You're kids are already "*in a broken home*" so to speak.
The longer you stay, the worse it'll get by the sounds of it.

Leave. Take your kids out of this situation. Let yourself heal & you'll soon see him for what he is thanks

Sc00byD0 Wed 13-Feb-13 22:15:16

Hi everyone, sorry to have been absent for a bit, work has been relentless this week and have had two late finishes (which went down well as you may imagine).
Tonight has been one of the worse. I was home on time for the children (my job allows me to often take them to school and pick up, as I can work from home too), and was here when they got home at 430, but he started a phone row with me as I didn't answer his call to check I had got home on time for them. I didn't answer because I was on the loo! That has escalated into a full scale row tonight (after he got home from the pub of course), the remote for the tv is smashed, he bought up the past again, bought up my job and the manc bitch, my drama queen thick mother, etc etc etc. I'm tired, broken, really down. I have told him he is an emotionally and verbally abusive bully, but of course he's not, I just don't talk to him and don't listen, and don't understand how he feels, and I shouldn't have done what I did. Nearly 20 fucking years and it still comes up, all the time. I made a big mistake, and boy, am I still paying. One mistake, never anything since to give him any course for concern (quite rightly), but still it goes on.
I'm exhausted by it all. I've just had an apology, and apparently we are going to talk about how to make things rights tomorrow night. Yeah, right. Get this week over, and it's action time.

thepixiefrog Wed 13-Feb-13 22:20:08

Action time sounds exciting!

I'm routing for you OP smile

Lueji Wed 13-Feb-13 23:10:40

Go Scoobydo. smile

Tell him how you are going to make things right for you and the children.

I am so glad you feel proactive about it all now OP, have been thinking lots about you and hoping it was all going okay. I still really think you should tell someone close to you what's going on so that you have RL support as well as us ragtag bunch on MNers smile

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