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My DHs betrayal has knocked me sideways and I cannot function (OW and frozen sperm)

(85 Posts)
Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 13:47:37

I am a regular but haven't been on MN for a while because we just did the house up and the kids and and and...

I want to outline what has happened without giving too much away to out myself but hope you fellow MNers can help me see straight again.

We have 3 very young children. We moved countries 3 times in less then 6 years.

Yesterday I have found out that in the beginning of 2009 my husband got senselessly dunk on a flight, then hooked up with the air hostie and shagged her in that hotel room.

He said nothing else happened but back in our then living location she contacted him for money and he lent her some which she has subsequently paid back.

I have tried to contact her as she emailed him again 2 days ago (that's how I found out about it): It said: wishing you a blessed new year may it bring lots of happiness, blah blah. Then he writing back: so nice to hear from you, please don't lose my contact details.

She responds: I never will lose your details, I am very sorry about what happened. I never wanted us to end this way.


I am going out here on a limb but I suspect he got her pregnant and she needed an abortion. I just know it. He cheated on his first wife (I found out from her AFTER we were married).

After I confronted him he admitted to the shag but nothing else. He blamed me for not being there as I had gone back to my parents for 3 weeks to pick our then baby daughter up and bring her home while we moved.


He then told me that he put sperm on ice for a female friend who came into his life after we were already an item. She made a massive play for him, she is an older, single rich trust fund babe inviting him to schmooze with royalty, vips, etc but when I got pregnant she basically settled for his sperm which he donated but she couldn't use as she wasn't physically well and is now in her mid to late 40ies.

I am trying to hold it together for my babies but he makes my skin crawl and I feel sick to the stomach.

To make matters worse we had agreed to try for a 4th baby and I may be pregnant. I am reeling, my world has folded and I don't know what to do.

We have no cash to spare, I can't move to my parents who have a tiny place and are both ill and old. I don't want to impose on them. I have no friends to run to, no one who can help.

I was so angry yesterday that I chucked a glass of red wine in his face and slapped him on the cheek only to find my 4 year old daughter standing behind me.

I know what I have done is wrong. i don't want to damage my girls.
Please can anyone advice me? I am shaking as I write this.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 04-Feb-13 13:54:58

Which country are you in now?

badinage Mon 04-Feb-13 14:00:26

The air hostess's E mail alludes to more than a one night stand - but it seems a bit of a leap on such scant info to presume he got her pregnant, paid for the abortion and then got his money back.

The 'sperm on ice' confession sounds like an elaborate tall tale to cover up an affair with yet another woman. More lies, in other words.

Both stories conveniently reduce his own responsibility, don't they? The air hostess appears to have seduced him when drunk and the frozen sperm recipient is being painted as a predatory loser, with a few nasty irrelevant details about her lifestyle.

In summary then, this man is an unfaithful liar who blames you for him not being able to keep it in his pants and is best out of your life.

I'm sure he blamed his last partner for his infidelity with you, incidentally. And you fell for it, even though he'd lied to you about his single status.

badinage Mon 04-Feb-13 14:02:07

Sorry, realised you actually said he cheatedon his first wife - not necessarily with you. But you had to find that out from her, which still means he lied to you.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 04-Feb-13 14:03:05

Is your husband able to move out of the family home? Give you some time to collect your thoughts and seek advice?

GuffSmuggler Mon 04-Feb-13 14:08:33

Clearly he thinks you are stupid to believe these ridiculous lies. You don't have a one night stand and then say 4 years later you are sorry it had to end, clearly they have been having a long term affair.

As for the frozen sperm, I hope you just laughed in his face as such a ridiculous concocted story.

Do not believe a word this man says, he is clearly a serial liar and cheat and has no respect for you or your children.

I'm so sorry this has happened, but at least you know him for what he is now.

Bogeyface Mon 04-Feb-13 14:13:40

You'd have thought he would have come up with better lies than that! You can't "just" freeze sperm, its alot more than just jizzing in a pot and popping it into the freezer! Ask him which clinic he went to, about the genetic counselling and sperm tests. See his lies fold like a house of cards.

Sorry but this is a classic cheater saying just as much as he thinks he can get away with.

I am afraid that you will find a whole iceberg underneath this tip of betrayal sad

Bogeyface Mon 04-Feb-13 14:16:03

Info about freezing sperm, the info about screening for Hep and HIV is interesting, I wonder if he researched his lie enough to know about that?

pandaptogether Mon 04-Feb-13 14:21:06

Sorry to hear your having a rough time but wouldn't be surprised if the frozen sperm lady appears with a child and claims it is his.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 14:49:55

Badinage, yes I believe the prgenancy thing could be a bit of a stretch. He said he lent her money over a year after meeting her and she paid it back. I asked me for the we'll see.

He was divrced when I met him, living on his own. We were set up by mutual friends. I get on really well with his dc from the first marriage and have a good relationship to his exwife.she felt close enough to tell me what she did.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 14:51:39

The sperm thing sounds weird. He says he went to the Lister Hospital in London.
I have been there. I don't believe they do embryology.


atacareercrossroads Mon 04-Feb-13 14:58:37

First things first - tell him he must withdraw consent for his sperm to be used (if true) and you want to see the original forms, go with him to the clinic, whatever, just get proof he has cancelled that transaction the Twat. Then he needs to piss off somewhere to give you a bit of space. You are not in the wrong here, always keep that in the front of your mind.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 15:00:21

Their email exchange as far as I know goes:

She writes: all that is beautiful, all that makes u smile may all that be yours this new year. Wishing you lots of success, good health and happiness. Happy belated new year. God bless.

He writes: i am very happy to hear from you
I wish you a very happy and strong and love filled 2013
Never delete my contacts - please stay in touch

She responds: i will never delete your contact however i really need you to know i am very sorry about what happened that is not how i wanted us to end. And yes i will keep in touch please do as well.


Something clearly happened that messed things up between them? We moved away from there in 2011 Nov. i moved earlier than him, by about 5 months.

He even had our maid send him lingerie pics.

I mean I am probably a gullible stupid cow.

It seems like it when I read what i wrote. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Currently in GER.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 15:01:15

He says he lent her money Mar 2012, then called it back in Sept 12, first she didnt want to pay, hence the bad ending???

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 15:06:34

Hi Panda, I know her. She is not pregnant. She is mid 40 with various ailings.
She was aggressively trying to snare him when we had just moved in together. I' m afraid but she is away with the fairies. She insists that his dead moth wants them to be together because they have all known each other from a previous life. She was extremely cold to me, on purpose only inviting HIM to events and functions with her. Rude!

momb Mon 04-Feb-13 15:09:19

Lister has a large fertility centre so he's done his homework on that, at least. I agree with above who said this bizarre story sounds like the precursor to another child you are about to find out about.

The email exchange reads like she sent a NY message to everyone on her list and he picked up on it. He shouldn't be keeping in contact though: they should both be deleting each other's contact!

'He even had our maid send him lingerie pics' 'He blamed me for not being there as I had gone back to my parents for 3 weeks to pick our then baby daughter up and bring her home while we moved.' .... Would you want your daughter to marry a man who feels this way about women? If she grows up with one as a role model then that is the type she will seek out......

HeyHoHereWeGo Mon 04-Feb-13 15:18:09

Oh it sounds like an affair to me. Come on, why all the drama and romance of "Never delete my contacts" "I'll never delete them" blah blah.
You could be right about the abortion. Might she have his child? Does he earn enough money that you dont know exactly where it all goes?
Your marriage is either over or not a faithful one I'm afraid.
Your husband is no good.

scaevola Mon 04-Feb-13 15:19:59

Lister Hospital does do semen freezing.

But I think that's all a red herring; the detail of both stories sounds so far-fetched that they read as if they have only a passing relationship to the truth. It does sound as if he has had affairs with both (and as air stewards don't usually shag random drunk passengers, I think you should brace yourself for discovery of a longer and more intentional relationship - sorry).

You need time to take stock and work out your options. These may be (temporarily) circumscribed by where you are and whether you can afford to come back to UK in the short term. But planning your options will put you in a stronger position.

And you should get an STI check.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 15:21:09

Momb, you are voice my worst fears.

The fertility thing sounds strange. I am not that familiar with the Lister.
He called them in front of me asking to be called back.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 15:22:14

What he tells me seems so bizarre and senseless. There must be more to it but I cannot fathom what. Apart from a screen to hide more cheating.

daddyorchipsdaddyorchips Mon 04-Feb-13 15:22:28

He sounds like a sleaze bag of the highest order. Please do the right thing by your DCs and get rid of him!

Just to clarify because it's yet another betrayal did he get your maid to send pics of herself to him? Or pics he already had of someone else?

Looksgoodingravy Mon 04-Feb-13 15:59:58

What an awful situation sad

I think your dh needs a reality check and I think you need space away from him. Easier said than done I know!

Sounds like there was much more than one drunken night with this ow and as for freezing his sperm...words fail me.

Do you not have any RL support?

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 16:01:10

Yes he asked her to send pics of herself. She called me in tears afterwards apologizing and quitting.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 16:02:11

No RL support apart from one lovely friend but 300 km away.

Looksgoodingravy Mon 04-Feb-13 16:07:23

What do you want to do?

badinage Mon 04-Feb-13 16:13:10

Regarding the frozen sperm woman, even though it sounds like the biggest load of bollocks, concentrate on what you can prove.

A woman who you say froze you out, made an overt play for him and invited him and not you, to places .............should have been told by him to take a long walk off a short pier, if he was faithful and committed to you.

What has he admitted to doing instead? Yes, that well known deterrent to ward off predatory women - donating your sperm so that she can have your baby. Stop blaming her - she's not the problem.

So far you've got 3 examples of infidelitous behaviour, including one where he sexually harassed your joint employee. There will be far more you don't know about.

Please cut him off. Your life will be forever miserable with this bloke.

juneau Mon 04-Feb-13 16:19:15

Please cut him off.

She's got three DC with this man and might be pregnant with a fourth! Cutting him off doesn't really sound very practical to me - although if he was my DH he'd be packing his bags right now. What a total arse!

This man has shown a callous attitude to you and at least one other woman that you know of, there are other suspicions, fog around what he may have done elsewhere. I'm so sorry OP, it almost doesn't matter precisely what else you find as there is likely yo be a whole range of betrayal here.

badinage Mon 04-Feb-13 16:39:47

When I say cut him off, obviously I mean end the relationship. Unfortunately because of joint commitments and kids, the OP is unfortunately saddled with some kind of contact with this excuse of a man for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean she's got to stay married to him. If he's sexually harassing employees, what will he do when his daughters bring friends home, or his sons, their girlfriends?

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 16:44:22

Oh my God, there is a woman in a neighbouring town that he saw when we lived abroad. She was part of a hospitality team though no contact on FB and v little on his phone. I found out over a year ago and contacted her through FB as him but no reply. He swears nothing ever happened. I can't prove him wrong.

Then there was another woman of the local origin who he said could make his 3rd wife, was his green hill, blah blah. That was what the trustfund woman told me when she contacted me out of the blue.

"Your DH has all these different affairs and girlfriends and I thought you should know...blah blah."

I confronted him, he denied it. I couldn't prove it. But ever since then I have been deeply uneasy about everything he says.

I have to say I seriously hope I am not pregnant. I wouldn't know what to do.
My inclination is not to have the child. Single parent with 3 kids is bad enough but 4 is worse. I don't know what to do.

I can now see that he is a serial philanderer. I don't want to live the rest of my life with this emotional uncertainty and pain.

But I am not sure what is right for my girls, growing up in a broken family or with a father who disrespects and hurts their mum.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 16:46:18

I am only 32, i will never find anyone again, will I?
I know it's shallow but I'm afraud of being alone again with all the commitments.

badinage Mon 04-Feb-13 17:07:00

At 32 you're still a young woman, so of course you'll meet someone else if that's what you choose to do.

It's even more important to get a sex pest like this away from girls. He'll harass their mates when they are older and like as not, hit on their mums while they are young.

A separated family isn't broken. You'll still be a family. But your lives will be so much more peaceful without the constant threat of him getting involved elsewhere and worse still, leaving the whole family vulnerable to criminal charges being brought against a man who sexually harasses women.

This isn't just an unfaithful twat you're dealing with here. He's a sex pest who menaces women for sexual favours when they are going about their everyday, legitimate business.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 17:09:41

The reason why I write all of this and agonize about it is, can I continue to live with this for the sake of keeping the family together?

Does it matter, he says? The shag was 4 years ago. The donation 5 yrs.
He says it was ages ago, but he always ends his admittance with "but YOU did this or didn't do this" "I felt colded out" and on and on it goes.

I don't know what to do. My youngest is 18 mths old. I can't work till she is 2 and I can get her into some sort of early state kindergarten. We live very rural, there are no jobs close by but in Germany you are obliged to work fulltime once your youngest turns 3.

He is very controlling and I worry that he will not support us financially if we separate.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 17:13:46

I'm afraid my girls will suffer if I turf him out.

You know badinage, I am afraid that this will continue until his cock falls off or he tires of it. Whatever comes first.

Or could he actually be truthful and these are not bizarre claims but that's actually what happened?

I feel so uncertain.

Astley Mon 04-Feb-13 17:15:35

Are you German then?

badinage Mon 04-Feb-13 17:17:01

No he's not truthful. Of that we can be certain. You've already got evidence that he lies, so why would this be any different?

You asked for advice about what to do. If you want to turn a blind eye and believe all these lies, then just know what you're signing you and your daughters up for.

PatriciaHolm Mon 04-Feb-13 17:19:01

If you decide stay with him, you know you are giving him carte blanche to carry on, don't you? He can't see his has done anything wrong, so he will carry on doing it.

I would get some legal advice about seperation/support.

something2say Mon 04-Feb-13 17:53:57

I think you must take some time to let things sink in.... He doesn't seem to be faithful and then he wants to do a classic twist and blame and make it your fault.

You can do better.

While you take your time to think, sleep in separate beds at least x

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 18:01:56

I am German British but chose German passport after my parents moved here to retire. My Dad is British. My Mum German. I spent my childhood and student years in the UK but after years abroad we decided to move here because housing and life is less expensive in Germany and my parents are getting older and. I'm an only child.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 18:05:07

In one conversation he said after he cheated on his first wife in a drunken fumble he felt that a line had fallen and then it didn't matter anymore.


So where does that leave me? Well I guess I know where I stand now.

His Dad cheated on his mother who later got cancer and passed away at just barely 50 years old. He always blamed his Dad's cheating on his mother's cancer but the apple doesn't fall that far from the tree hey.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 18:07:57

We are definitely sleeping apart. I am not sharing bed or table.
I am so cash strapped at the moment I cannot even afford a lawyer.

FiercePanda Mon 04-Feb-13 18:10:18

Your children will suffer more in the future, living in a miserable home, Mum constantly on edge each time Dad goes out to meet yet another "friend", Dad shouting at her, blaming her for his problems... You cannot bury this, Amouage. He's a serial cheat, a constant liar, and if you roll over and let this pass he will continue with the affairs and lies and probably be more and more blatant about it.

He doesn't love you, not the way her should. If he did, he'd never have donated his sperm to a woman he has a bizarre relationship with; he'd never have asked your maid for lingerie pics; and he'd never have cheated with goodness knows how many women.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 18:13:33

He says it's my fault, he always felt I could leave him at any point, that I wasn't that sexed up, not always available and and and.

And to top it all off he said I should look at myself I'm not in the shape I used to be, and my arse hangs and my tummy is big. I am a size ten at 6'4 and 60 kg I beg to differ. Never thought myself a model but how dare he???

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 18:14:46

Fierce Panda, yes tell me to my face what I probably don't want to hear. It needs to sink in. I mean he wouldn't do even the things he HAS ADMITTED to if he loved me. Let alone what else went on that I know nothing about.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 18:18:46

Thank you something2say. It really does need time to sink in.

I just wonder how I never noticed. I said if he was that unhappy and I was such a bad wife then why didnt he just leave. He clearly didn't care about the little baby we had just had. Nor about his other 2 kids who loved spending time with me even before I had kids. I have always put out when asked to, done washing, cleaning, gone out with him, I hardly do anything for myself. I have no girlfriends to speak of, no girls' night outs, no hobbies. My kids are my everything. I was so proud of my family and it's all such a farce now.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 18:21:03

I have to put the kids to bed. Will post more later. Please give me more input how I can find out the truth or how I go about the separation.

Financially he is not in a position to move out, we have nearly completed big renovations on this house.

I have called a financial advisor to come on Wed to value it and poss put it on the market.

JuliaScurr Mon 04-Feb-13 18:22:15


they should be useful

badinage Mon 04-Feb-13 18:31:51

Is there somewhere in Germany you can get some free legal advice? A Woman's organisation or collective for example?

This isn't just a serial cheat we're talking about here. He is a menace to women and it sounds like he hates them.

FiercePanda Mon 04-Feb-13 19:23:58

And to top it all off he said I should look at myself I'm not in the shape I used to be, and my arse hangs and my tummy is big. I am a size ten at 6'4 and 60 kg I beg to differ. Never thought myself a model but how dare he???

He's a charmer. How dare he?! Is he an Adonis himself? He just sounds worse and worse, and you're right about what he's admitted to you - there will be lots more he's not bothered to mention. Urgh.

Keep reminding yourself of all the horrible and questionable things he's done, as hard as it is. You need to get angry, that anger will give you the energy to get your life back on track. Well done on organising the financial bod to come and look at the house - not only is that a brilliant idea so you can get some understanding of your finances, it will also show your not-so-dear-husband that you will not put up with his selfish, immature, cruel bullshit any longer.

ArtVandelay Mon 04-Feb-13 19:34:21

Hi, this sounds outrageous. Firstly, with regard to organisations that could help - have you got a Caritas in your area? They can help with lots of things, including accessing the Frauenhaus if necessary. Also maybe your Hausarzt or Frauenarzt can help? I know here things vary a lot from region to region. I just want to say though, that you shouldn't tolerate this and you deserve help to get away from this man.

Looksgoodingravy Mon 04-Feb-13 20:34:13

This has got nothing to do with you and everything to do with him! Keep this in mind when he's trying to twist this nightmare into being your fault!

He sounds utterly selfish and tbh I think he's probably done this for so long now I don't think he'd have it in him to change.

You now need to decide what you want to do. Where do your parents live now? Could you speak to them about this and get some support?

I think you may have buried your head about this, totally understand, the awful truth is sometimes hard to face but I think now it's time to get tough and look after you & your dc.

Only you can decide deep down what you'd be happy doing. Only you can decide whether you want to spend the rest of your life wondering what he's up to or whether you can live with that uncertainty.

FWIW I'm still with my partner of 17 years after I found out he cheated on me last year but he's been remorseful and has been completely open about what happened. He's not blamed me at all. It's been hard but we're working through it. This is just to put into perspective that if I thought that your 'd' h sounded remorseful I wouldn't be almost encouraging you to LTB, I wouldn't suggest this lightly!

I think your 'd' h needs counselling but I doubt he'd go.

badinage Mon 04-Feb-13 21:14:07

It needs saying again.

This bloke isn't just a cheat. Sexually unfaithful men, although bad partnership material, can still be decent, law-abiding citizens.

Not so this man.

He sexually harassed a woman and forced her out of her job.

The cheating is the least of this, in my view.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 23:46:27

Well that local girl ge had a coffee with, he tried to put her up for a position in the company he was working for at the time. I found out and hit the roof, i told his boss (used to work in same industry) and soon after he was let go.

So cut my nose off to spite my face butI was too angry and I told him he needs to go look for a moral compass and integrity within himself. Clearly he possesses neither.

There is a Diakonie and Caritas not far from me. I will make an appointment tomorrow.

I am definitely angry, I smashed his fricking shitty laptop today with all those shit pics and links on it. I just need some guidance how to ope with the anger and upset. And him blaming ME makes my blood boil.

I don't want my children to see or hear anything that goes on. I just want to crawl under a stone and pretend I never heard anything of it.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 23:50:20

Badinage, there is a big element of control and him abusing that power.
I was shocked but just weeks ay from giving birth and now it seems like so long ago and far away yet with all those nasty news it has caught up ith me and though individually the puzzle pieces are bad, together they form a very nasty picture of a man who learly thinks the world iwes him some. I'm pretty sure it's clinical. He sores real high on the psychopath score.

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 23:50:44

Scores, not sores, sry

Amouage Mon 04-Feb-13 23:52:52

Looksgood, thank you for sharing your experience. My H is definitely not like yours. A druen shag as such I am almost willing to forgive and forget but all these snippets combined form a real nightmare. I wonder how I could go so wrong?

OldLadyKnowsNothing Tue 05-Feb-13 00:31:41

Any of us could go so wrong, Amouage, it's not your fault.

Bogeyface Tue 05-Feb-13 00:56:11

I'm pretty sure it's clinical. He sores real high on the psychopath score.
I wonder how I could go so wrong?

If he is high on the psychopath score then there is nothing you could have done. These people are clever, often far cleverer than the average person (not saying you are stupid, I hope ykwim). They are analytical, logical, result driven and can go from A to Z without worrying what they hit in between. They are charming and can be whatever they need to be to achieve their ends, their true self only comes out rarely. They are a different species.

All you can do is work to get you and your DC out of this horrible life safely and happily.

We are with you xx

Damash12 Tue 05-Feb-13 03:50:29

I think the maid story would have been enough for me to have kicked is lying, sneaky, unfaithful ass to the kerb without any of the other stuff. Without sugar coating anything this man is a compulsive liar and you will have a much better life without him. Good luck x

LadyLapsang Tue 05-Feb-13 08:00:03

What country did you get married in and have you lived in the UK since getting married / having children? I understand German divorce / maintenance have changed in recent years and not in favour of women I'm afraid. What about equity in your home? You definitely need to get legal advice. Horrible situation but I'm sure it will get better - 32 is no age at all. Good luck.

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 08:08:44

We married in the UK, yes we lived there afterwards.

German divorce laws are harsh on women, you have to work full time when your youngest turns 3. it is very hard to find work when you are a LP with 3 small children. I had previously tried to find part time work but received only rejection letters. My parents are too old and ill to be of any help beyond an afternoon's babysitting.

Childcare is scarce and the private ones I won't be able to afford unless I want to throw away my entire net salary.

I really ought to find out where I stand financially because I don't want to trap my kids in poverty. I would like to move on from a position of strength. They shouldn't be the ones suffering for my mistakes of chosing such a man.

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 08:25:08

Oh God I just found out that my eldest has said that Daddy hit mummy.

Shit, what do I do now?

I slapped him in the face. She was standing behind me and I dint see it.

I am in bits. I find this so hard but I dont want this to affect her. She is 4.

meditrina Tue 05-Feb-13 08:43:17

OK - what you can do now is accept that you hit him, tell DD (but only if she mentions it again) that Mummy and Daddy were having a big argument, that it's grown up stuff, nothing to do with her or anything she did and that you love her very much; and that the grown ups will be working very hard on putting things right.

Now, "putting things right" doesn't necessarily mean 'reconciling at all cost'. You have had the most enormous shock and need to recognise that you (and your body) have gone into crisis mode. You need to make the effort to remember to eat and sleep. Fortunately, the demands of DC are a help here - they force you to continue with a semblance of day to day life.

But you need to think too about how very hard it is to deal with him whilst you are still in the very early stages of processing the information you now have. This is why the advice here is so often to separate (temporarily or enduringly) as you may well do better with time and space to think without his presence disturbing you, or new discoveries crashing through on a timetable that is not of your choosing.

You are in difficult circumstances in terms of the practicalities, but is there a way in which you can secure a separation? And does the thought of time away from him to start rebuilding yourself seem like a relief?

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 09:39:49

Thank you Meditrina. I was shocked by the revelations but when he then started pointing the finger of blame at me, nonchalantly standing there I slapped him hard on the cheek. I turned around to find my 4 year old standing about a meter and a bit away.

I tried to smoothe it over but I am sure she heard us shout that's why she snuck out of her bedroom downstairs.

I am worried I have damaged her by her witnessing this. I have since not let my mask slip, kept the routine and tried to be civil. It is so hard but he is refusing to move out and I haven't got the option either.

I am stuck here having to endure him, he works from home.

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 09:42:32

I would love for him to leave. He has often travelled and I have found the kids calmer and the house more tranquil without him. I wouldn't even describe him as a good dad. He is awfully temperamental and fussy and over-eggs everything. Spending time with the children means he chillaxes on the sofa while they run amok in the living rooms while the TV is on.

meditrina Tue 05-Feb-13 09:46:23

Hearing the odd row will not cause lasting damage. And for heavens sake, you didn't do it on purpose, and the shittiness of what you are learning could cause a saint to lash out.

But staying in a home where you are regularly witnessing bitter rows several times a week, or (worse) consistent low level sniping, chilliness and lack of consideration/kindness, will have a corrosive effect. And that is why you need to think about what you want life to be like in the future.

A mask of civility only takes you so far: and indeed well done for putting one in place whilst you sort out the basic admin. But it's not a long term solution (not even really one to count on in the medium term either).

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 09:53:21

Thank you Meditrina, your words mean so much to me. I just cannot confide in anyone outside MN. I have made an appointment with the diakonie, which ill give counselling and advice. I just need to be careful what i say, the last thing i need is social services to come and investigate.

I agree children are very sensitive and especially my youngest is very very observant. I am toying with the idea of sending her to my mum and dad for a few days. She is no hassle at all for them because she is already very independant. They just can't cope with all 3 or the two little ones.

Do you think this is a good idea or do you think she will feel pushed away?

SorryMyLollipop Tue 05-Feb-13 09:55:08

"I have always put out when asked to" sad

This man is clearly very toxic, you and your Dc will be much better off without him. I know it seems very difficult now, but you can do it. xx

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 09:55:24

My younger ones are 2 1/2 and 18 mths old.

SorryMyLollipop Tue 05-Feb-13 09:57:02

Your DD will probably enjoy some special time with her GP's - its all about how you "sell" it to her - "Do you want to have a special adventure with Granny? You are big enough now but the others are too little" etc etc

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 09:57:48

I know Sorry, but what didn't I do for him. I feel so stupid now. I put everything in my life on hold, my job, we moved and I lost friends, I have no hobbies, etc.

My mum babysits twice a week when the kids are in bed so I can go to the gym to improve my 'sagging' backside and 'huge' tummy. angry

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 09:59:21

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea. The others aren't so observant and they still sleep lots. But my eldest is sensitive and she is of an age where she can and might remember sad

LessMissAbs Tue 05-Feb-13 10:48:09

I don't think you're anywhere near the truth yet OP...

Hes clearly had at least two long term affairs while hes been with you, and who knows what else.

You do sound gullible. This sort of man seems to deliberately pick innocent women who won't spot the red flags, and then make them financially dependent on them.

Your only real solution is to get away from him asap and take entire responsibility for your own life and that of your family...easier said than done. In reality, you will probably be subjected to more of his lies and half truths and become even more controlled by really should get away from him before you become even less able to.

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 11:13:19

LessMissAbs, I know I sound like a daft wallflower, I am actually not like this in RL, I can shout and be strict and hold my own. I think if I were a friend and saw my H through the eyes of her, then I would be a lot more cynical.

It's not so easy to be black and white and full of resolve when you are neck deep in it yourself and have young children to consider.

Yes I am probably in denial. I would just like to find more facts but I don't know how to. I definitely need a break from him, he is trying to wear me down.

LittleFrieda Tue 05-Feb-13 11:32:00

Is your husband German or British?

Do you have assets? Is it worthwhile getting your saggy backside grin across to Britain where the ancillary relief part of divorce is fair to you as a woman?

LessMissAbs Tue 05-Feb-13 11:32:56

I get the impression he has ground you down OP. Its very hard to deal with a skilled liar, it must be like peeling endless layers off and never being sure if you get down to the core.

But honestly, this is one reason why you should never, ever, put yourself in the position of being financially dependent on a man, or being unable to support yourself if you have to get out. And you should really try to focus on some form of escape mechanism now. Your partner is a liar, you know that already, so even if you keep trying to find out more lies, its not going to make that much difference.

Do you love him? I take it you are not one of these women who can turn a blind eye to his behaviour and not be upset by it?

You aren't married and you live in Germany. Is he German? Does he support the family financially? Perhaps you need to see a lawyer to discuss your options.

btw I wouldn't trust his "spin" on his affairs. ie he makes it sound as though these women are bitches who chased after him or took advantage of him when drunk. He is already proven to be a liar and he will tell you whatever he needs to to make things easier for himself.

Timetoask Tue 05-Feb-13 11:35:09

Op, you sound like a strong woman. Please don't blame yourself, this man sounds like a real charismatic showoff that had you completely fooled.
Now, on a more practical note. If you leave now you will have financial troubles, right? So why don't you just play his game (I know it sounds horrible, and I am not this kind of person at all but...), pretend all is forgiven, try to live with him whilst at the same time building up your exit game plan by working towards getting a job and having childcare in place, finding out about your rights, etc.

Miggsie Tue 05-Feb-13 11:40:07

He has been covering up his horribleness for years, now you have rumbled him and see him as he is.

You trusted someone not worthy of your trust.

Leave him - your daughter's teenage years will be dreadful with this man as their father.

Sound slike he should be in jail

Miggsie Tue 05-Feb-13 11:42:16

Also - the fact you have moved so many times in your marriage with young children suggests he has to move on as he gets rumbled at work for what he is - he can't keep up the pretence very long.

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 11:59:40

Hi Little Frieda, you just made me smile, thank you. I suppose with my fat reserves on my belly I could float over the Channel grin

Well, we haven't got a place there anymore but I could push for it when we sell this house. The agent who's coming is who did the mortgage for us and is a financial advisor. He is a kind, knowledgeable man who I can trust.

I would like to move back to the UK because that's where my kids half-siblings live and it would be sad if they lost touch. I still have family in London.

Moving there means biting my tongue and waiting another few months. I will have to research nurseries, schools, etc that I can afford and get myself a job.

He is British. I am German British with a Brit passport.

We have no assets to speak of as we have nearly completed major renovations and building work on a turn of the century villa. So no cash to speak of.

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 12:05:07

lessMissAbs, you acurately described it like an onion with layers upon layers. The analogy is very true and I just don't know what to believe anymore.

First it was a drunken shag, then they met 2-3 times, now 5-6 and he lent her money. More and more shit comes out the more I ask...

I don't know how I feel. He says it was years ago, yes, 4 yrs ago.

Because it's not ongoing I feel a bit better but it DID HAPPEN and that's what upsets me.

Yes he is v handsome and charming and women flock to him at parties or at work, but it take two to tango. And he is probably sending signals that he's available.

No, I cannot turn a blind eye anymore. I just looked through his asmallworld profile and linkedin and FB and all these random woman names come up and I am tired and sad and exhausted. I can't find anymore.

Amouage Tue 05-Feb-13 12:05:32

Fight, not find

meditrina Tue 05-Feb-13 12:20:25

It's not a question of fighting, it's a question of coping.

You have already posted that you find the house more tranquil without him. Now you need to find that tranquility on a more enduring basis.

If he won't leave and you cannot yet find a means to prise him out, look to domestic arrangements which maximise your well-being. Do you have a spare room? Can you move him into that? And then treat him as a lodger. That takes a huge amount of effort, but putting that distance there will reduce the amount he can disturb you.

Dear Amouage, I'm so sorry to read what you are going through.

The fact he is trying to blame you and not taking responsibility makes it SO much worse.

Don't have any good advice I'm afraid, but just wanted to send you my support.


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