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Turning Tavern

(89 Posts)
outtaleftfield Fri 01-Feb-13 15:25:05

Hi I am new to this and could do with some advise, is there anyone out there who was on the previous Turning Tavern threads?

I haven't been on any of the previous threads as they seemed too fast moving for me crap typer grin
But hi <waves> I'll jump on this one early and try to keep up grin

outtaleftfield Fri 01-Feb-13 20:52:52

Is anyone else married and yet suddenly finds themselves attracted to another woman for the first time in their lives?

redrobin030 Fri 01-Feb-13 23:34:59

Hi i am in this situation and it has not been easy. My attraction to another woman has led me into serious depression even though to begin with it was wonderful to feel in love, overwhelming and unexpected. I'm sure i could offer you some advice and support.

MajesticWhine Fri 01-Feb-13 23:37:32

Yes, I was on those threads, although probably with a different name. I am married to a man, but bisexual. What advice do you need?

OneMoreGo Sat 02-Feb-13 00:06:06

Hey, I was on some of the earlier TT threads under another name. I only realised I liked women in my late twenties. Hope you can get some good advice here smile

MyelinSheath Sat 02-Feb-13 07:48:16

I was on the earlier TT threads under a different name.
I started off liking a few women then realised I was a lesbian. I separated from my husband and am currently in a relationship with a woman. I have a 6yr old daughter too.
Happy to help where I can.

outtaleftfield Sat 02-Feb-13 09:53:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OneMoreGo Sat 02-Feb-13 10:55:48

I would initially say that if you are happily married and don't plan to leave your husband, then it would be wise not to pursue this any further - and I'd say that to anyone, gay or straight.

It is perfectly possible to be largely straight and just get a thumping great crush on one person who is a woman. Especially if they seem to be giving you the emotional attention and appreciation that you perhaps aren't getting within your marriage. It's also totally possible that this is the beginning of a greater awakening in terms of your sexuality, and that's fine too.

What are you hoping to gain by talking to her if you don't plan to leave your husband - does it really matter whether she is ragingly gay and very interested, or straight as anything? Perhaps you could make a joke of your crush by telling her in the hopes of diffusing it, although I'd probably also joke about it to your husband otherwise you risk creating the sort of situation where you and she have a big exciting 'secret' that excludes him, and that would damage your marriage further.

That is just my twopence worth, feel free to disregard it smile Obviously if you were single or separating my advice would be very different!

ManInBeige Sat 02-Feb-13 11:21:34

If it was a dad at the schol, what would everybody be saying? Stay away, probably. Good luck, anyway.

outtaleftfield Sat 02-Feb-13 11:30:02

Thank you Onemorego. I hear you and agree with all you have said. The problem is that I find my feelings for this woman are bigger than anything at times, I have never felt an attraction like it. The thought of separating from my husband over this feels too crazy right now, but it just won't go away. I have tried not seeing her for periods of time, but when we meet up again the feelings come thumping back. Plus it is hard with the kids being best friends to not see each other. I am hoping by telling her I will get some control on the situation, whichever way that goes. Then I can make some decisions. to hear from other people who have been through a similar thing would be really helpful, I am hoping it will help me decide whether to say something or not.

MajesticWhine Sat 02-Feb-13 13:34:45

It sounds like she's toying with you a bit, and yes, if it was a man everyone would stay well clear. I wouldn't bring it up with her, she sounds like trouble. Telling her might mean she laughs it off, and indicates that she is not interested, or it might lead to an affair. Do you want either of those outcomes?

It is natural and normal to feel attracted to someone of the same sex (in my world), but it can be quite mindblowing and confusing if its the first time it happened to you. But just because it's another woman, doesn't make it any less damaging to embark on an affair. Nor is it less of a betrayal of your H.
If you want to get control of the situation, maybe you could bring it up with your husband. If this seems impossible, what about talking it through with a counsellor? I guess you are not getting what you need at home, and this fantasy is a way of trying to deal with that. I would spend some time working on that. Trying to improve the relationship and get a bit more of the love you need.

MyelinSheath Sat 02-Feb-13 14:05:45

Your situation brings back memories for me. I too had no intention of leaving my husband to begin with. My feelings were overwhelming for the woman I had a crush on, and I knew she was gay, but she was also in a committed relationship and I would never have approached her because of that. I got myself very wound up in knots about her, I cried more over her than I ever have over anything. But ultimately, it was something which was just in my head and it was more about the fact that I was coming to terms with my sexuality than about her specifically. I still know her now, and can look at her and wonder why she had such a hold on me. She's nice but not hugely special.
If you're serious about not wanting to leave your husband, I would stay away from her as much as possible. I told my husband about my crush at the time, do you think you could tell yours? Perhaps he could help by doing the pick ups and drop offs when the kids play together.
If she is interested, you're in trouble. If she's not, you could make things very awkward. Decide what you want first. I couldn't ignore my feelings and ended up coming out and leaving my marriage. I still didn't get the woman I was lusting after. Take your woman out of the picture and see how you feel.

outtaleftfield Sat 02-Feb-13 16:47:06

I am very grateful for your comments. I don't know much about the Turning Tavern but from the little I have read I know it is a place that one can be completely honest. I am totally aware that if this was about a man it would be the same and I know what I am writing about is wrong. It seems somehow separate from my normal life, which is probably how any potential affair feels.

As i have said before this has been going on for me for over 3 years, I have tried hard to get beyond it, last summer I was able to go nearly 3 months without seeing her, I paid for cabs to pick up my kids from her house ( we live in the country) I said I couldn't as was too busy with work, I arranged to be out when she dropped them back, but through this 'it' still controlled me. Our kids are in quite a successful band together and they gig every 8 weeks or so and I don't want to miss that. If I could get completely away from her it would be easier. We share a similar social group as everyone knows each other where I live.

Her hold over me is so strong that of course it makes me question a lot of things. I have come close to telling my husband, but I feel that he wouldn't take it at all well, he can make things worse not better and I don't think I could take that on.

Myelin, did you ever talk things through with the woman you mention?

outtaleftfield Sat 02-Feb-13 17:17:07

Redrobin, if it's not too painful could you tell me what happened with you?

pollyblue Sat 02-Feb-13 18:30:52

Another from the original Tavern here waves

If you speak to her about this it will probably go one of maybe three ways - she will laugh it off/say you're imagining things or she will become hostile or she will say 'yes, i fancy you and want to take things further'.

Have you thought through these possibilties in your head, as dispassionately as you can?

As this has been going on for three years, and you feel you can't speak to your DH, I think talking to a counsellor might be an idea.

outtaleftfield Sat 02-Feb-13 19:19:31

Hi Pollyblue,

I have just started talking to a councillor, she has been really helpful. She can tell how stuck I am and agrees that after this period of time the best way to help know how i feel would be to talk to her. It has got to the stage where if she were to laugh it off and say she hasn't got a clue where I am coming from although the humiliation would be awful at least I would know and I can start to get over it, it would be truly horrendous but I just can't stay in the place that I am. If she were to say she felt the same i am sure it would be just as confusing for her as it is for me but at least I knew I wasn't going crazy, then I don't know what would happen and agree that is potentially the absolute worst outcome. If she got hostile, then hopefully it would break the spell for me. I have tried to think through the scenarios as dispassionatly as I can but find it so difficult to do that.

The situation as it is not good for me, I am not sleeping and am starting to feel depressed which is a feeling I have never had. I didn't go looking for this and wish it had never come into my life, I want to get back to myself.

MyelinSheath Sat 02-Feb-13 19:22:21

No, I never did talk things through with her and I don't feel the need to anymore. It was a massive crush, but it has passed. It would feel somewhat ridiculous to say anything to her as I see her now as a colleague that I very much respect, and I value the input she does/could have on my career far more than anything else about her.
I think you have to look within yourself to work out what to do. For me it was right to explore it further and eventually leave my husband as I was gay. If you're not, and really have no intention of ever leaving, it would be dangerous to explore things further. However, if you think you might be gay, you wouldn't be alone in your situation. After I came out I spoke to a large number of women who were also married with children when they realised they were gay. It was often when they met a particular woman that they realised.
I can recommend a couple of books for you, will get the titles and post shortly.

MyelinSheath Sat 02-Feb-13 19:25:37

Married Women Who Love Women by Carren Strock

Late Bloomers (Awaking to Lesbianism After Forty) by Robin McCoy

The first one was my favourite of the two and basically just contained lots and lots of women's stories, many of whom are still with their husbands.

Gay40 Sat 02-Feb-13 20:13:48

I pop in and out of the TT threads. Out lesbian from birth, so I just try to support where I can.

MyelinSheath Sat 02-Feb-13 22:37:29

Gay came out of her mother's womb with a rainbow flag smile

outtaleftfield Sun 03-Feb-13 10:56:26

Thank you Myelin for posting those books, I will look into getting them. I am sure if I left those by the side of the bed it would be a short cut to a discussion with my husband!

followyourjoy Sun 03-Feb-13 11:41:06

hi outta.....on reading your post I just wanted to put a different perspective/spin on your situation. I understand it must be quite frustrating to have these enormous feelings and no true understanding on where they will take you (yet). Instead of driving yourself to the point of insanity and maybe depression, try not to identify with the feelings; just watch them unfold in all their glory, accept them on a deep level and don't resist them. You will notice that "you" (your essence) are not your feelings, it's when you attach yourself to them and identify with them that you get into difficulties. This does take some work but their are plenty of books written about waking up and consciousness which can guide you. It sounds to me like you've had an awakening of the spirit. Life is about learning and developing your soul, and these challenges come along to help us on this journey. What seems like it is an almighty mess at the time, can actually be a fantastic lesson in self-development. We are supposed to FEEL as we are having a physical experience. We have no real concept of how vast we really are and our enormous potential, which is limitless. Trust that the universe is giving you a gift and know on a deep level that you don't get given anything you can't handle. Sometimes you need a shake up, to wake you up to something bigger and greater than you think you are. Go with it, breathe and don't buy into the fear factor...that would be your ego which doesn't want you to be expansive. Love is an amazing gift and anyone who ignites this feeling in you is just a mirror. Really the lesson is to unconditionally love and accept yourself and see how wonderful you are. This might sound very unfamiliar...but I think that you can get caught up in the why's and what to do's....try doing nothing, just accept the feelings and sit with them, don't resist them , don't necessarily act on them. If you are comfortable with them they will pass. The mental torment is just that you are trying to work something out in your head, when all along, this is about the heart and you don't need to "do" anything. Once you reach the place of acceptance....the rest will fall into place. The outcome will be so much better for you, if you are relaxed about these will take the focus away from the other woman, you will see that the love is in you, she is just showing you something amazing. There doesn't have to be any more to this....that is in itself a beautiful thing. Good luck!

outtaleftfield Sun 03-Feb-13 17:53:20

Dear followyourjoy. I don't know what to say, what you have written has profoundly touched me. I have read it about 5 times and will need to read it some more to understand it all, but I felt every word that you have written and I feel lighter and happier than I have felt in a long time. Can I ask you what you mean by 'love is an amazing gift and anyone that ignites this in you is just a mirror'

Thankyou so much for taking the time to write this to me, it was so generous of you and you have really, really helped me. xx

followyourjoy Sun 03-Feb-13 21:28:54

Hi Outta....You're so welcome ~I am very happy to have helped you, that's really fantastic.
I will try my very best to answer your question, but it's quite deep. What I think it means in your situation, is that the woman you feel for has ignited a strong feeling in you, call it love, desire, longing. Think about this....she has ignited the flame within you but she is not the flame, YOU are the flame. She has simply held up a mirror and is reflecting back a part of you which needs some attention . Maybe she feels the same, maybe not...but in the end I don't think you should tie yourself up in knots trying to work that out. Love is a could be a gift for you to reclaim your inner power and reflect that back to whom so ever you chose! Maybe it will be your husband, maybe her, maybe everyone around you! The important thing is to be positive about it, and free yourself from the mind's attachments which can often become kind of compulsive and more like a prison than anything helpful or joyous..xx

followyourjoy Sun 03-Feb-13 21:31:17

Also I meant to say, take the power away from her and reclaim it for yourself...

mumincov Sun 03-Feb-13 21:35:00

Hi there. I dipped into the turning tavern a bit but not much.

I'm married with one child. Just before I got married (only a couple of months before) I moved jobs and met this co-worker. She worked on a different site to me and later when we worked together, she was my boss. I liked her immediately but wasn't strongly attracted to her at first. When I did start to have feelings for her our working relationship was a good stopper to anything other than idle musings. 6 years on we don't work together any more. I go for coffee with her every couple of months, and I feel very strongly for her. I've never even dared to ask what her sexual preferences are in case she'd actually be interested, she's long term single and almost asexual.

I've always been attracted to women, right from my early teens, but when I was younger I did prefer men both sexually and also socially/as friends. Gradually I've found I've become more interested in women as I've got older.

My H knew I was bi as I told him when we met (I'd just divorced and had "come out" to my first H when we'd split). To be honest, I'd promised myself that there wouldn't be a H no 2, but then fell for H. He's very sweet, but quite moody - a bit of a sulker, and I feel that I carry him quite a bit. I generally am left to organise our lives, sort bills, run the house etc. He does quite a bit with our DD, though he struggles with it - at least he tries - he does morning school run etc. We both work in quite demanding jobs. Generally we co-exist as a couple though and whilst we're cuddly we not physically close.

So what do I do? I don't want to break up with H and would really value this lady as a friend if I could get my feelings to subside. I feel that it's probably worse because I've "never been kissed" when it comes to women, despite having had crushes on women from about 12 or 13, plus my marriage isn't great - I do resent H and I don't really find him attractive.

mumincov Mon 04-Feb-13 01:45:29

sorry to jump on your thread by the way OP. The original turning tavern was a bit of a melting pot so I didn't think.

outtaleftfield Mon 04-Feb-13 17:05:42

Dear Followyourjoy,

Thanks for explaining the bit about the mirror, I am now actually feeling that perhaps I don't need to talk about it with her in order to understand what this is all about. I have never really spent much time thinking about the spiritual side of things, but do believe that people can come into your life for a reason and that this could be one of those people, it needn't be sexual as I had previously thought, but just loving. I feel an immense amount of love well up in both of us when we are around each other. I hope I can keep feeling like this, don't delete your post as I will keep reading it.

Any book recommendations would be gratefully received. Thank you so much again.

redrobin030 Mon 04-Feb-13 23:39:01

I came out to my partner 6 months ago -we are now dealing with the fall-out. i want to seperate, he is still in denial. When we first got together i had been 'out' to everyone for 7 years, (my close family were very unsupportive-i felt like a freak), previously i had identified as bisexual. Anyway, we became friends and gradually fell for each other. Over the years we have had difficult times but got over them. Last year, completely unexpectedly i fell completely in love with a woman (not reciprocated), it was overwhelming and quite terrifying. It led me to completely breakdown, it was like a huge awakening and left me feeling completely groundless. However, the subsequent guilt of thinking i am smashing my family to bits and hurting people by wanting to be who i am is horrible. I know this doesn't sound very helpful or positive but i guess in time things will work out for the best for us.

outtaleftfield Tue 05-Feb-13 07:47:23

Hi redrobin, that sounds really tough. I guess when these feelings are really in you, something will happen that means eventually they will have to come out. Do you regret telling the person how you felt? Do you think it would have been easier on you now if you hadn.t? Or did you have no choice? I am sure in time it will all settle down and people will adapt, but hell while you are going through it.

Loveis Tue 05-Feb-13 10:23:49

Hello all - lurking here on my stool. I have to butt in and say that I feel it's really important to be true to yourself whatever happens. Too many people live a lie, a sham or put up with stuff that makes them unhappy and in the long run they suffer and so does everyone around them. If you are truly happy with your life, your lot, this can only ripple out to everyone else in a positive way. All said, I understand that it's not always easy.

redrobin030 Tue 05-Feb-13 13:46:23

loveis-it is so true. Society and personal experiences lead us into living a life that is wrong for us sometimes and it is such a shock when we suddenly find oh! this wasn't how it was meant to be. outta-I just didn't have a choice but to talk to this woman-i just said 'i like you and i don't know what to do'-it was such a physical thing like my body could no longer contain all my feelings and the fact that being gay is integral to me, to my whole person not just sexual. It was such a crashing realisation-an awakening but i was also filled with this huge grief which was alarming but also quite public! So i cannot pretend nothing has happened, i cannot go back.

OneMoreGo Tue 05-Feb-13 15:22:22

redrobin, that sounds like a rebirth of sorts, it must have been a very difficult experience at the time. Sorry to hear your partner is still in denial though sad That must be challenging to deal with. I hope things progress for the both of you, and do keep posting here. Sometimes it's just helpful to write thoughts out.

outtaleftfield Tue 05-Feb-13 19:25:41

Hi redrobin, It sounds like you always had a feeling that you were bisexual or gay. I have never felt like that, I may be bisexual but I don't think I am gay. Having said that I have never felt so drawn to anyone in my life before. It wouldn't be so difficult if she wasn't the mother of all my kids best friends, I too feel that I will eventually have to say something as I don't know if I can carry on as it is. I am worried that it will be awful and I won't be able to get away and it will be worse than it is now. I have been able to identify with what followyourjoy said. I just need to keep reading it!

redrobin030 Fri 08-Feb-13 14:58:18

what followyourjoy wrote was really profound. It really is about something inside that has awakened and is projected onto the other person. I guess outta that only you can make the decision about talking to this woman. You cannot know her response before hand, everyone reacts differently to things. When i spoke to this woman who i was crazy about she never at any point or since said whether she liked me or not but she did become quite angry later on which was confusing. I used to try and read the clues - the way she looked at me, something she said, sometimes it was clear she liked me and sometimes i thought, it's all in my head! It depends if you think you can cope-with not saying anything or with the subsequent fall-out if you do talk to her. But you know, she may be really kind and she very likely may be aware already. Sexuality can be quite fluid and changing over time - for me it has become fixed so at least i am sure of one thing!

followyourjoy Fri 08-Feb-13 20:22:23

Hi All.....I hope Outta you're feeling better about your situation, and I wanted to give you a book recommendation. I would suggest for starters you read Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now". It's absolutely clear and brilliantly simple yet profound. It really changed the way I thought about feelings and our attachment to them and also bringing everything back to the present moment, which is key. There are soooo many books out there. I started years ago by reading Buddhist philosophy, Krishnamurti, Osho, there are too many to mention! See how you get on with that one....I'm sure it will give you some amazing insights. Really, I think the first step is to realise our addiction in this western, material world to the identification and attachment to the mind, call it the ego self, which is in fact the FALSE self. Our society is ruled by the intellect and the ego (and look at what an almighty MESS it is), and has overlooked the heart which is so much more honest and truthful & expansive. A decision made from the heart is easy...I only trust my heart, never my head (although this does take work, as the ego so desperately wants us to identify with the mind)...the mind has a function, of course....knowledge is very fantastic but in order to get closer to our true selves, we need to drop the mind and identify with the space within us ~call it the 'no mind". That space will connect us to the vastness of life, the divine matrix if you like, which is so precious and has no limits. This I would say is the Life force which gives energy to all life forms. Once you have had a taste of it, you will be able to feel incredibly expansive and welcome any glitch in your life as an opportunity to deepen your understanding of your true purpose. This is why I say its a gift, to be in a state of discomfort, not knowing the outcome....these are our biggest challenges and paths towards something more sacred. If you really dig deep and inquire about what you have to learn here, there can be no bad outcome. The universe is supporting you, so you can also hand it all over. Be aware that you don't have to rush into saying something to your friend.....sit with it and feel relaxed about it before saying anything. Your subtle energy will affect her and she will then also be relaxed about it. You've probably reached that place of discomfort where you can't cope with the mental torture of it and want to get it "out of your mind"....and that's understandable. Your work now is to reach a state of grace within yourself so that you have no expectations from her if you do decide to tell her, rather it is coming from a place of true understanding and peace within yourself. I think if you drop the story about your kids being friends, what she will think of you, the possible fall out etc. (because it is just a "story") and simply talk about it calmly at the right time, when you feel ready...there will be a positive outcome. It's not good for you to be coming from a state of desperation or expectation.

mangomay Fri 08-Feb-13 21:08:02

Hi all, I wasn't on the original TT thread but thought I'd throw my twopence in to the conversation.

outtaleftfield I wish I had the answer to your dilemma. I too have been in a similar situation and cried myself to sleep a hundred times before I made a decision as to what I would do. And even then, it wasn't really a conscious decision, it all just sort of happened and I felt it was entirely out of my hands. I can totally relate to what has been said about people coming into your life for a reason, I guess it might help if I briefly told you my story. Actually, nothing about this story is brief but I'll go for it anyway.

I had been with my partner for 6 years, we had 2 beautiful children, a girl and a boy, and we moved from central London to a little town in Surrey. My partner wasn't a particularly nice man and had become quite abusive and controlling over the years. I was desperately unhappy but had no confidence and no courage to tell him he had to leave.
Anyway, once DD started school I started going in the local coffee shop a few times a week with some of the other mums. The barista was a tiny, pretty thing who I immediately felt a connection with, despite having never been attracted to a woman before. She had an odd way about her though, and I got the feeling she didn't like me, but for some reason I couldn't stay away from the place. I began to go in earlier than the other mums so I could have ten minutes on my own, where she would usually come over and chat to me. These visits became more and more about seeing said barista and less about meeting the mums for a coffee and chat. I started to realise I was very much attracted to her and despite knowing very little about her I was sure she was gay. I remember vividly when she was making my skinny latte and had her back to me, she scratched the back of her neck and I saw the tattoo she had there. All I could think about for the rest of that day was what the rest of her back looked like and, eventually, what the rest of her looked like!! Over time she softened and I began to think she didn't hate me after all! Around Easter last year there was a circus in town (a rarity, and the whole town was unbelievably excited!) Of all the free seats in the circus, the barista decided to sit next to me and I can honestly tell you the feeling was unbearable. It was the first time I'd ever seen her out of work, in her own clothes and relaxed, not all work-ish. The smell of her hair and the electric shock that went through me when her leg brushed mine almost made me cry. I know she felt it too, she eventually told me so but something about the way she edged closer to me and made excuses to lean in to me made me sure of it. I didn't want the stupid, and really really crap, circus to end because then we would go back to our normal lives and our little circus bubble would be burst.

So eventually we swapped numbers, I made a really stupid excuse about wanting a coffee shop voucher for the school raffle (yes, clever I know!) and began texting. Like a lot of texting. Like I had a 3000 text allowance which I used in 2 weeks lot of texting. And there was some declaration of feelings, some conversation about how I would go about getting my partner to move out, she came round a few times in the evening and there was some hand holding, and eventually some kissing.

My partner moved out, after much fuss and drama, and barista began to come round every night for cuddles and films, take aways and just talking and giggling. We were in a very happy, giggly girl place, with lots of painting of each others nails and plaiting of each others hair. It sounds disgustingly corny now, but it wasn't, it was beautiful and amazing and I truly thought I was in love with her.

It transpired, however, that she was very much in contact with her ex still, another mum at the school and it eventually ended, 7 months later with the ex slapping me in the face, them getting back together and my world crumbling just a little bit. I'm back on my feet now and I can see things very clearly, it was always doomed to fail, I wasn't in love, it was pure infatuation and if something seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Having said all of that, if it wasn't for the barista I would still be living with a man I had grown to hate and wrecking my childrens lives by letting them watch him destroy me, and my confidence, very slowly, day by day.

I thought after that experience I'd be sworn off women, but I'm not so sure now. I recently started talking to a lovely girl, but thats another story for another post, because this one is long enough.

So OP, you might find the answer to your problem isn't something you decide, it's just something that happens, you have no control over it and everything will be ok in the end. If it's not ok, then it probably isn't the end smile

outtaleftfield Fri 08-Feb-13 22:27:39

Dear followyourjoy (sorry I don't know how to make it bold on here)

Wow..thank you again for taking the time to write to me. How long has it taken you to learn all this stuff? I read and reread what you have written and really want to feel it all, it seems like the perfect solution for me, i get tiny bits of it and then lose it. I am trying to understand the feelings and our attachment to them. Initially my feelings I believe did not come from my head, very early on in our friendship when it was, I believed, just a friendship, I noticed that I would start to blush in her company, it would start on my kneck and spread up my face, this really confused me and freaked me out, I couldn't stop it happening, I had and still have no control over it. Then if she was near me I couldn't breath properly. (it's amazing I am still alive!) I feel sick quite often after I have spent time with her, or have the most chronic head ache. I do feel that it is beyond my head sometimes and the pull is coming from somewhere deep within me, i have felt it impossible to ignore. I actually haven't thought or fantasised about having a sexual relationship with her, I have thought and wanted to kiss her properly, i think this is driven by wanting to feel close to her because I didn't know that there was any other route my feelings could go. She has kissed me a few times briefly on the lips and once when we were out with some other mums, we found ourselves on our own for literally a few seconds, she was staring at me and I literally had an out of body experience, I took her head in my hands and kissed her on the mouth, not a proper kiss but a quick kiss on the lips, but then made a flippant comment about how great it was to spend time with her, I didn't have time to gauge her reaction as other people came back, but later on when I dropped her home, we kissed on both cheeks and then completely effortlessly on the lips, she then asked me if I wanted to join her exercise class! I guess because I said I liked spending time with her. FFS. I am going to get the book you recommend, if I can find a way to avoid having to talk to this person about what's going on then that would be really fantastic. My husband is away on business a lot so I am often on my own, it would make sense that this has happened possibly because of that, but because no one has ever had an affect on me like this, it has deeply got me.

Hi Mangomay, It looks like 'Barista' really did come into your life for a reason and great that you seem OK with it all now and that you are moving forward with your life. Quite an episode and so brilliant that you can speak about it now like you do. It sounds like you are in a great place to meet someone else. Good luck x

outtaleftfield Fri 08-Feb-13 22:38:37

P.S mumincov, this isn't my thread, go for it!

Loveis Fri 08-Feb-13 23:05:15

Nudging in here but have to say I truly believe people come into your life for a reason and when you least expect throw new light on a situation. I never used to think this but I do now. Loved reading your story Mangomay- I was gripped from start to finish (--probably with mouth open--). Amazing how we are drawn to certain people and their energy; it's so unique to the people involved. Outta - I think you have to let go and and don't think too much about possible outcomes or whatever. Maybe saying something - in a nonchalant, lighthearted way - will allay the intensity of being in her company.

BangOn Sat 09-Feb-13 10:40:07

Hi Outta, I was a tt regular for a while, under a different name. I was in a very similar 'does she...doesn't she' thing with a work colleague. We never went as far as kissing, although we came close. I think. I agree with so much of what Followyourjoy has written: the woman i fell for was (i won't say 'is') a mirror for my submerged sexuality & as much as she has toyed with me, she's also shown me a fundamental truth about myself.

I actually spent a lot of time with her over the past few days, but as part of a large group. Some of that time her male dp was there & seeing them together reminded me of why i'd been so confused previously. But rather than starting to unravel the whole thing in my head again, i'm trying to accept there are some things i'm just not supposed to understand.

Having said that the 6 month period of my crush has been one of the most intense moments of my sexual & emotional life. I just wasn't aware of how much i'd compartmentalised sex & romantic love previously. Sorry if tmi, but at some point in my adolescence i must have decided that i would only touch myself whilst thinking about the female form but that i would only have romantc relationships with men. Therefore i was straight. Talk about cognitive dissonance!

Also, as i'd only ever fancied reasonably feminine looking women, & all the lesbians i knew were quite masculine, i just didn't see how i could've been of the same sexuality as them. I get it now, of course.

Anyway, i remain unhappily marrie with two young dcs d & wonder if real change is possible for me.

followyourjoy Sat 09-Feb-13 12:13:43

Outta ~ I've been on a spiritual quest for about 20 years and have had many experiences that have lead me to do a lot of inner searching and I have always been interested in the truth beyond the surface "reality" on offer. As Carl Jung says "He/she who looks outside dreams, and he/she who looks inside awakens". Understanding your true self is a journey which will take a lifetime I believe. To really walk the path of an awakened soul, is not for the soon as you start the transformation,your shadow side will come and roar at you, but it's simply "stuff" that needs healing, it can be very intense....but at the same time, it's the most rewarding thing you can ever do in life. To be totally "in the flow", to let go of any control over your life yet to have total trust that you will always be supported by the universe, that takes courage. In our society many people are living a half truth, and this doesn't interest me. To be fully true to yourself, to accept every part of you, this is a wonderful expansive way of living. Life is full of uncertainties, and life is insecure. Most people think they have security but it is just an illusion because the very nature of life is that there is no permanence hence no security. Marriage isn't security, money isn't security, possessions aren't security.
I could ramble on for hours on my favourite subject matter, & I'm in bed ill at the mo so I could get carried away! OK, so your feelings are very intense for this wiq..and it sounds like hers are too. I didn't realise how much of a physical reaction you get from her...does sound like you have it bad. There's no point in going over all this in your mind, as I keep can't TRUST that monkey mind. Next time you see her, be aware of what's happening in your body, drop the mind, focus on the body. Just be "in your awareness".....keep tabs on yourself. Try and enjoy what life is offering you, don't resist it...go with it and don't beat yourself up for having the feelings. Remember, nothing is right or wrong it just "is'; life is a journey to navigate and there is no map, which let's face it...thank god there isn' would be so boring if it was predictable.

Bang ~ Of course real change is possible!!You do have the courage to change your situation, it is there inside you, you just have to find it......don't waste your life in an unhappy marriage.

Mango ~ I just loved the way you wrote your story, very compelling. Hope you are happier now, do tell us the story of the new girl in your life!

OneMoreGo Sat 09-Feb-13 12:19:45

"I just wasn't aware of how much i'd compartmentalised sex & romantic love previously. Sorry if tmi, but at some point in my adolescence i must have decided that i would only touch myself whilst thinking about the female form but that i would only have romantc relationships with men. Therefore i was straight. Talk about cognitive dissonance!"

BangOn - this. Just, this. I totally get what you mean and I did this same thing as well for so many years.

followyourjoy, liking your posts very much.

darlingbudd Sat 09-Feb-13 14:32:13

OneMoreGo and BangOn - me too. I was in such denial for so long. I recently told my husband about my attraction to women - and we're struggling on for the moment. But it can't go on like this forever.

mangomay Sat 09-Feb-13 15:42:26

I guess my decision was pretty easy to make. My partner was a ghastly man and he had to go regardless, my lovely barista (we'll call her B to save my typing fingers) just gave me the courage and self belief to actually say the words and mean it. There was no love in our relationship, none at all and it's not healthy to raise children in such an environment. If I was happily (or unhappily) married I don't know if I'd have acted the same. I can't imagine how difficult it is to deal with these sort of feelings and having to take your dh's feelings into consideration. I guess my situation was also made easier by the fact that B was giving me obvious signals and making it very clear she was interested. Her excuse for acting odd in the beginning was that I'm 'very girly' and she didn't think I would 'swing that way' so she didn't want to get to know me in case her feelings got the better of her and she tried it on and I ended up hating her.

The new girl is an equally complicated situation, but I have my head screwed on a bit more firmly this time so I think I can deal with it all a bit better! She used to be friends with B's ex (we'll call her Bex!) but when B and Bex got back together, Bex turned very unpleasant towards her, most likely because she's an unpleasant type of gal and was finally showing her true colours. After all, she slapped me in my face, in front of a bunch of mums from DS nursery, and she brought the new girl along for back up, in case I got lairy. That's not my style though so if she wanted a fight, she really picked the wrong girl!
So the story goes, I was in the pub with a few friends and the new girl was there with her mums and her mums friends (some of who are vague acquaintances of mine as they have children at the school)
Anyway, new girl taps me on the shoulder and asks if she can talk to me

Loveis Sat 09-Feb-13 15:48:04

And??? mangomay what happens next? Basil Brush tail wagging expectantly

mangomay Sat 09-Feb-13 15:57:22

Dammit, posted too early....
Asks if she can talk to me outside. As you can imagine my back was up immediately, I was half expecting her to start shouting in my face as her lovely friend had done. But she followed me outside and said she wanted clear the air, explained that she hasn't known Bex was going to slap me and she felt awful. She'd wanted to say something for a while but I ha always avoided making eye contact with her in the street, to avoid another confrontation. She explained how Bex had been acting since her and B got back together and she had no intention of speaking to either of them again. I kept my part of the conversation totally nonchalant, I avoided passing judgement on Bex and B's behaviour, and mostly just nodded and smiled. Anyway we chatted a bit as the night went on and as I was leaving I asked if she was on FB (which she isn't) and she said let me take your number. So we've been texting for a few days an I get that lovely feeling when I see a message from her on my phone. Here's the complicated bit (bits actually!)
1: there's every chance if Bex finds out we talk she'll have something to say to me, which I want to avoid at all costs
2: new girl's mum is friends with a lot of people I know from school and nursery. Is that gonna be weird? Her mum knows we chat, new girl explained the situation to her mum in the pub that night and her mum was very smiley and friendly towards me after that.
3: the worst one. New girl is 19. I'm 26. Yes, I know. But here's my thinking. I'm not looking for a serious relationship at the minute. My children need stability after a stressful year, and that comes before anything. But if its just for me? If its just about the cuddles and the DVDs and the take always in the evening, if she's just someone to make the cold and lonely nights a little less so, is there really any harm in it? New girl knows my situation and she understands that there wouldn't be a future for us, not anytime soon anyway.
Have I lost my mind? Again. Over a pretty girl, again....

mangomay Sat 09-Feb-13 16:03:57

Because she is immensely pretty. Devastatingly so....

outtaleftfield Mon 11-Feb-13 15:37:53

Hi followyourjoy

I have ordered the book and am waiting for it to arrive. In the mean time can you help me with a couple of things? This is all really new to me and to be honest in the past I have never imagined myself getting to know my spiritual self I wasn't sure that I believed in that. I have never thought that there is life after death and I guess I have always tried to find answers to fix situations, I have never been comfortable leaving things hanging in mid air. But... I am open to anything right now as I feel like I have lost my connection to myself, my metaphorical train has completely derailed and I am going top speed off course. You have said that this is where things get interesting and that it is a gift to be in a state of discomfort. How can you just switch yourself off? How can I just be present with this person and not react to what is happening, how can I drop the mind and just be present in my heart? When she kisses me on the lips, how can I turn my mind off, when it starts going into overdrive of, did that just happen?, did she really do that? what is she trying to tell me? what does this all mean? If you switch it all off aren't you just becoming numb? Sorry... I must sound so naive, I would love to have your insight on all this. Are you really able to treat everything that comes into your life with so much ease?

Its funny but this person did mention Angels the other day, people that come into your life to guide you or show you something, they can also hurt you too she said. I hope you are feeling better smile

followyourjoy Wed 13-Feb-13 16:31:31

Hi Outta ~ Great that you've ordered the book! will try my very best to answer your questions......
Things are certainly going to get interesting for you! This is not about "switching yourself off" rather switching the mind off (the false self/ego, monkey chattering entity that is the mind). A good exercise for you to do, is to start trying to identify your true awareness behind the chattering ego mind. This mind that chatters to you, is NOT YOU! Try and identify this as the ego, and see that if you tell it to STOP, what is left beneath it? Do "you" disappear when your mind's endless chattering stops? No, what remains is your true self, that is at peace and just "IS". Once you have identified the false mind, you will be ready to deal with it's nonsense.

In order to switch your mind off, you need to be accepting the present moment, saying "YES" to it, not resisting it, and be in your your breath...feel your heart beating, but don't THINK about it. Just surrender to what is, stop trying to control it. Be in the here and now and your mind won't do the running away thing. Keep practicing this, notice how much crap you tell yourself everyday and learn to laugh at yourself and the ego, learn to tell it to STOP!

Believe me, I don't treat everything that comes into my life with ease at all, but I realize deeply that we are here to learn, and that every situation has something to teach us. Once you accept this, rather than resisting it, you can learn to embrace the difficulties as inevitably they provide us with our greatest opportunities to grow. I know it can be painful at the time, but that's life...the pain doesn't stay around, soon will come the joy.

outtaleftfield Wed 13-Feb-13 18:45:14

Hi Follow

What does the ego mean in this context? Normally the ego is a big opinion of yourself?? I am determined to crack this, I get the mind chattering bit and that if I tell it to stop, I am still me, still here. If you do something wrong and you want to resolve it, generally you have to think about it? to make sure you can put it right? If you just switch off to everything how do things get sorted out?

Victoria1971 Thu 28-Feb-13 10:19:44!....This is my first time on here. Maybe I should tell u my tale. I've been in a 12 yr relationship with a man, not married, two amazing kids, and 6 months ago I fell madly in love with my gay female friend. We are together now and it's been the toughest thing I've ever done, trust me! But we are so happy! I have never had any gay tendencies in my life, but I do feel I've met my soulmate and love of my life. I'm having counselling for me to get my head around the 'new' me. I don't flaunt it, I'm rather hidden n very scared, but somehow I'm evolving into this. My children are my priority, obviously, and I do worry for them. Some friends n family have shunned me, which has hurt terribly. But other friendships have strengthened. I'm still going thru the guilt for leaving my ex, although I fell outa love with him yrs ago. My journey continues. Does anyone know of any 'comfortable' places I can relax in with my partner, in South Manchester.........I'm still struggling!

Loveis Fri 01-Mar-13 22:20:50

Hi Victoria - I'm in a very similar situation to you. I've PM'd you.

HappyTitChick Sun 03-Mar-13 18:38:00

Outta - how are things 2 weeks on? I've just found this thread having been on the last Turning Tavern thread.
The joy of others people advice and pearls of wisdom was a boost to me and my journey, I hope you have found acceptance in yourself that your attraction is not wierd or scarey but a trigger to find inner happiness.
I am happily married and have a girlfriend of 10 months. She is also married and both our husbands are accepting of our relationship. We both have 2 DC and they are of similar ages although she is in her 30s and me in my 40s. Its been a interesting road to travel but so much love and happiness, so much being true to ourselves, is coming out of it.
Do let us know how are you? I'd love to help if I can.

outtaleftfield Mon 04-Mar-13 21:50:52

Hi all,
I have been trying to get my head around quite a bit since last writing on here. I got the book that follow recommended and I have been reading it, it is quite heavy going and I find I can't concentrate on it for too long! I have really been thinking about the why people come into your life thing too and what this situation really is about for me. I guess I am pretty lonely. I grew up in a large city, went to a large school, was working from the age of 14, partied hard and had loads of friends. I now live in the middle of a field and am on my own a lot during the week. I have made friends, but also spend a lot of time around people I really have nothing in common with, I feel like i just don't know who I am anymore.

I hadn't seen the 'person' for a while and actually spent time with her at the weekend. For the first time I felt myself looking at her in a different way, I watched her gush over people and it was a bit annoying, she also looked quite felt different. Through this 'self discovery' that follow has opened up for me, I have really had to think about what my truth is and it is to have a future with my husband, I know this is what I want, our relationship does need some tlc and I am now trying to work on that. I truly hope that I don't slip backwards, the 'person' really has a way of getting to the core of me and she has taken up SO much of my head space over the last few years. I am going to try and just live with it and except it for what it is, live with it in the now and right now it feels like time to let go.

HappyTitChick Tue 05-Mar-13 10:35:40

Outta - loved your post; I read such a happier mood and positivity too. Good luck.

amibi Tue 05-Mar-13 14:51:43

Just wanted to say hi to everyone on this thread. I already know some of you smile

I was on one of the turning tavern threads before and it genuinely helped me discover who I really am. I never realised I didn't know who I was tbh, but since meeting my girlfriend 5 months ago, I finally feel like me. I'm in love, which I now know I've never really been before, I'm happy and I've found my soulmate, which is something I never really believed in. What I learnt more than anything though is to stop worrying about labeling my sexuality. There is no need to. I fell in love with a person and like many people on these threads have already said, gender is kind of irrelevant, which may sound odd when you're still in the process of trying to make sense of your feelings, which are often very intense. When these feelings are so new, it's normal to put too much emphasis on gender, why wouldn't you?.....Yes, I'm incredibly sexually attracted to my girlfriend, but my emotional connection we share is like nothing I've ever experienced before, but I don't necessarily believe that it's because she's a woman and not a man. I hope that makes sense.

So I think the advice I would give anyone who suddenly finds themselves struggling to come to terms with their unexpected feelings for a member of the same sex, is to stop worrying about that side of things. Start asking yourself, is that person right for you? Can you see it really developing? Is it just an infatuation? Above all though, if you realise that you've found something special, don't let it go.

outtaleftfield Tue 05-Mar-13 21:47:55

Hi amibi That is such great news that things have worked out for you so well. I agree gender is kind of irrelevant. You fall in love with the person. Actually it was really helpful that you put those questions in your post, it made me think about 'the person' and if I am honest, no she isn't right for me?, certainly not in the long term, I can't see it developing, it hasn't for 3 years really, so unlikely to now, is it just an infatuation? no she shook me to my core, it is truly unbelievable when this happens to you for the first time. However, I don't think I have found something special in her though, i think she simply reminds me of who I used to be.

Muchadoaboutnuthing Wed 06-Mar-13 19:12:53

Hi everyone. Looking for a bit of support at the moment and can't talk to anyone in "real" life so its great to find this thread. I've been married for 12 years and have 2 children. I've fancied women on and off my whole life really but met my dh young (I was 18) and went on to do the whole marraige and children bit quite quickly so never really had the opportunity to pursue my feelings. In all honesty I'm not even sure why I got married. I do love my dh,
but as the years go on we seem to be growing further and further apart.

I recently met a woman who I have completely fallen for. We have to see each other a couple of times a week and always have a quick chat. I saw her the other evening and asked her if she wanted to go for a drink, I nearly fainted with shock when she actually said yes smile
Trouble is she's married as well and I'm fairly sure this is never going to go anywhere. i suppose I need to decide whether I can live with just being friends and having the occasional drink and chat or whether its just going to be too difficult and I should stop now. I'd still have to see her (it's work related but in a very roundabout way, we don't actually work together) but could probably cut out the chats etc.

But I really like seeing her. My whole personality has changed since I met her, even my mum commented to me the other day that I seem happier. (I reacently changed jobs so everyone's putting it down to that). I've never told any of my friends/family that I'm bi so i can't talk about this with anyone. The whole thing is taking up SO much headspace, i can't seem to stop thinking about her. I have actually never felt like this before and it's freaking me out a bit.

HappyTitChick Thu 07-Mar-13 08:39:04

Hi Muchado, so when's this drink? I think you need to use the opportunity to talk, to get to know her better, to see if there is chemistry. Don't rush, don't be too candid. Treat it as nothing more than friends out for a drink. As with all relationships, connection is key.
Does your husband know of your past & present attraction to women? I am sure that, if you do love your husband, as much consideration as posssible needs to be exercised.
Small steps start new journeys. I wouldn't plan the end game but enjoy your thoughts about her and delve deep to find what you want.

Muchadoaboutnuthing Thu 07-Mar-13 18:11:29

Happy we went for a drink on monday night, the day I actually asked her. I was in the place where she works and I was finished what I was doing. I wasn't sure if she was still working or not so I asked her if she wanted to go for a drink some time. She said yes and said she could go then. It was good, she was drinking, I wasn't as I was driving. She thanked me at the end and said she really enjoyed herself and said we should do it again some time. I told her to give me a call whenever she wants and we can arrange something, I kind of don't want to be the one to ask again if that makes sense?

I saw her once this week since then and had a chat, I was up to my eyes in work though so couldn't stay long. I do love my husband and I love my children to pieces and don't want to break their family up. It's just really confusing at the moment, I've really never felt this way before and its driving me mad. I don't even know what it is in particular about her, there's a fairly big age gap and we don't have a huge amount in common.

Dh does know I have been attracted to women before. He used to find it quite amusing but he's very possessive and I think if he thought there was someone I really liked he'd be (understandably) furious about it. He knows about this woman, knows we chat and knows I went for a drink with her. Part of me wants to just stop seeing her altogether but that would basically mean changing job which seems a bit extreme. I guess I should just wait it out and see what happens.

HappyTitChick Mon 11-Mar-13 18:13:19

Hi Muchado, sounds like you felt comfortable in the situation and she "really enjoyed herself". No awakwardness but you also say "we don't have a huge amount in common". I'm guessing you didn't really feel any chemistry or desire as you say "I don't even know what it is in particular about her". Mmmmm. I think I'd focus on my husband here and realise why I did marry him and whether I can be really happy with him. From whay I can see/read, you are perhaps a little bored in your marriage and this woman has excited you. Don't do anything drastic like change your job but turn your feelings to drive something positive into your life - improve your marriage, connection with your husband AND enjoy this new platonic friendship whilst exploring your inner needs and desires.

outtaleftfield Mon 11-Mar-13 19:25:17

Hi much It sounds like you are in a similar situation to where I have been, mine unfortunately carried on for a LONG time and has been really hard. Something has finally shifted in me though thank god. I too was aware that I didn't, if I was honest, have a lot in common with the woman I was fixated on, but still it was out of my control. This thread really helped, in particular the comments left by follow so THANK YOU again follow if you are still following this thread. Her words rang true with me, so read her posts above if you haven't already and leave things up to your heart and not to your head, takes some practice, but i think I have got there. What has happened for me has been extraordinary, I know now that I am bisexual, but that I have married a man I love and I want a future with him. If however, anything ever changes with us and I find myself single again, I am pretty sure that I would be open, infact possibly chose a relationship with a woman, who knows. My obsession with my woman definitely made me realise that, it also made me realise that I don't have enough passion in my life, I mean in my whole life, not just my marriage, so I am looking to retrain and possibly become a midwife, or a councillor and work around teenage pregnancy, a total departure from what I do now! follow said to trust the universe and you don't get given anything that you can't handle and she was right, I just needed to work out what it was that I was being shown. I hope you don't get as tangled up as I did, if I had had some words of wisdom earlier, things may not have gone on for so long.

Muchadoaboutnuthing Tue 12-Mar-13 11:16:06

Thanks for the replies. Outta I'm sorry to hear your situation has been so hard but on a purely selfish note it's great to hear that someone else has been through this too. I feel really isolated at the moment as there is noone I can talk to about this.

I totally get what you say about it being out of your control, thats how I feel as well. I just feel drawn to this woman for some reason in a way i have never felt to anyone else, male or female. I'm a bit of a control freak in the rest of my life so don't like feeling this way tbh. The days I see her and we chat etc i'm over the moon. If I feel she's been curt with me (can be when shes busy) or doesn't have time to talk it leaves me feeling really upset. It's more of an emotional attraction I think, I don't know if its actually sexual which is confusing me even more.

joescheckedshirt Wed 13-Mar-13 13:48:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gay40 Wed 13-Mar-13 18:49:05

The TT does not condone cheating, lying or judging, while acknowledging that for some people the unexpected sexual attraction to women throws up an whole load of other issues.
We are hear to listen, share and give support where we can.

HappyTitChick Thu 14-Mar-13 00:56:16

Hi there joes. I haven't left my DH but I am in a relationship with a woman with his consent.
I had never thought about a polyamorist life (although had wondered why monogamy is the norm) and got married in my early 30s; thereby shelving my attraction to women alongside my attraction to other men. But, when passionately kissed by a new best friend, I HAD to talk to my DH and after much talk and a few hiccups, I am now deliriously happy to have a DH that I love even more and a gorgeous girlfriend.
Honesty, Connection and Communication are the only way. And these can start now.
Best of luck and remember your happiness should not be secondary to the equation.

Loveis Thu 14-Mar-13 21:35:47

Hi Joes - I can offer you some advice. You are welcome to PM me.

outtaleftfield Wed 20-Mar-13 15:28:09

Hi much I was wondering how you are? Has everything calmed down or got worse?!

Muchadoaboutnuthing Mon 25-Mar-13 17:29:47

Hi outta, things are much the same. I've tried to avoid seeing her as much as possible the last couple of weeks. I had to change my work rosta around alot to accomodate staff who were absent so its meant I managed to avoid the place I would usually see her without it causing me any problems from a work point of view.

I have missed seeing her and I know I will have to this week. My feelings haven't changed, I'm still as confused as I was when I first posted. Part of me wishes I had never met her, I don't want to feel like this. I thought I was happy in my marraige before but this has thrown me.

I've been trying what you and follow suggested about leaving things up to my heart as opposed to head, I'm getting a bit better as distracting myself when I'm starting to obsess think about her smile

outtaleftfield Mon 01-Apr-13 22:00:16

Hi much

I find when things aren't going so well with my husband, I start obsessing again. I was doing really well, but feel I have slipped backwards (me and my H haven't had a good weekend!!) It is really a nightmare as it can become so distracting. I know that I don't want a future with my lady, we don't have nearly enough in common for that to be a possibility, also I may not feature on her radar at all. I know that enough people have written on here and said that generally you can feel if there is an attraction and i have felt enough to know that something is going on. What has happened for me through this is I realise that I am probably bisexual and as i have written before if my situation ever changes I would consider a relationship with a woman. My big problem is that when I slip backwards and start obsessing again it really upsets me and I so want to be free of it. I know my marriage needs work and I am trying hard to make us closer, we have been together for 20 years and I can't imagine my life without him. But, when my mind starts going it really stirs me up and I wonder if I should just sit down with her and tell her what I am going through, I don't want a run off into the sunset scenario, so won't feel disappointed if she has never felt anything for me, I mean that, it would be embarrassing, but perhaps this would burst the bubble and set me free. I would love to hear from anyone that has done this and what the outcome was?

I don't know what helpful advice to give you, other than just cut all contact if you can, same would apply to anyone you are seriously attracted to, unless you are in a position to do something about it. I can't do this, I would love to be able to know that I would never have to see her again.

followyourjoy Mon 01-Apr-13 22:36:29

Hi Outta....haven't been on the thread for a while but thought I'd pop up and say hello. Things have obviously moved on for you which is great, but I guess you now want to move it all on a stage further, ie. have some kind of closure. It sounds like you have your head screwed on and are totally in a different zone to before. You've already pretty much accepted that you wouldn't have a future with this lady so that's clear. As your crush has gone on for some time, it's probably become a little addictive & maybe releases dopamine into your system, and you only fall back on it when you're not getting on with your that tells you it is not really about her but about the feeling associated with the crush. (Only maybe, I could be way off course here.)
I reckon you are ready to talk to her about it and face the consequences. Taking a risk is the only way to really move on, otherwise it will carry on being same old, same old. Life is about taking either have a breakdown or a breakthrough! Be brave and empower yourself, you will feel great just for getting it out of your mind, you will feel free. Don't even worry about her, you don't want anything from her and you can't control her reaction, you're doing this for your well-being and for your personal growth. You will both learn something.... Good luck!

outtaleftfield Mon 01-Apr-13 23:13:23


So great to hear from you!! You always 'pop up' just when i really need you! Yes, very much thanks to you I have moved on, wow....It has been a mad couple of months, I have made some great decisions, a big one is to retrain in a different field, alongside what I already do ( this i genuinely don't think I would have done if it hadn't been for you telling me that I was being given a gift and that the universe doesn't give you something you can't handle) I realised that I had to turn the chaos into something positive and that I need more passion in my life and although I am not hugely happy living where I live, I could make it into a positive time of my life, stretch myself and make it work for me.

I have also realised that although I find this person very physically attractive, I do not want a future with her and you are totally right, i obsess when I am not happy in my marriage, it feels a bit like a kind of self harm thing. ( That sounds really crazy and I am really not that crazy!) I must get some kind of fix from it in a negative way. The councillor I have been talking to has been treating it like an addiction and has discouraged me from talking to her about it, but I am a sensible person most of the time and honestly what harm can come of me just getting it off my chest? Just saying calmly how I have feltl? I don't want her to declare undying love for me, I don't know what I hope to achieve but you are right, i desperately want some kind of closure. I am so glad that you think I am ready to talk to her, I don't think she will take it too well, she will laugh it off and probably make me think I was imagining things ( I remember her kissing me on the lips enough times though!) She has always tried not to spend time with me on our own too so this could be a challenge in itself!

I am still very undecided as in no way want to risk making things even worse for me, but you have given me strength (no Pressure!) and i think it could be a risk worth taking.

You are one cool woman, thank you smile

followyourjoy Tue 02-Apr-13 19:42:27

Outta thanks for the warm welcome! Its great that i might have helped you a little bit...I'm really pleased for you that you've turned a corner, and I think it's always good to stretch yourself, to jump out of your comfort zone....retraining sounds good!

I think you've moved on so much from before and the thing about declaring your feelings to your wiq, I think you really need to tune in and ask yourself will this really help you, or will it create complications that will send you reeling off course. Only you know the answer to that, but really I think these things have a way of sorting themselves out, and you don't have to worry or stress about it. Sounds like you have a mission to get her on her own anyway. I do think that bringing things out into the open would move it on, but it may not be in the way you expect. However, life is about taking risks and that's what it really means to be alive...otherwise nothing would ever shift, everything would be dull and dead. You don't know the outcome, but you CAN control your reaction to it, and how you move it doesn't have to make things worse for you, only YOU can make things worse for you...she doesn't have that power over you. I think you need to feel this on a deep level before you approach her. Basically there is no riht and wrong way of doing things, there is just a kind of flow to everything and its whether you are strong enough and relaxed enough to really follow your true path and deal with everything that comes your way. Sometimes we just are too scared or too expectant of a certain outcome. Then I'd say make sure you are in your higher self, and do it from the right place. Hope that helps.....

I'm sure the feelings come and go as to whether to say anything or not. It sounds like your life will move on when you start your new venture, job whatever, and you'll meet new people and maybe she will fade into the background finally?

outtaleftfield Tue 02-Apr-13 21:49:04

Hi follow Thinking about what you have just said, i guess the only outcome that would give me closure would be if she said that she too felt that there was a connection and it had freaked her out too, but hey we are both settled in relationships so let's just leave it here, laugh about it and hopefully never feel the need to bring it up again...that would be my ideal outcome and I do think I could then move forward. But the chances of that happening are, who knows? So... thinking about what you have said, I don't think I am in my higher self enough yet to take her on. I so desperately want to, in the hope that the above may be what will happen, but you're right it could make things majorly awkward if it really upsets her and she goes totally weird on me as I have to see her with my kids. Life is about taking risks but as I still don't really feel fully myself at the moment, maybe I should hold off. I do so want to move it on and feel so crap about it a lot of the time that the temptation to play a different record is quite alluring, at least another crap song would have different lyrics! ( sorry, had a few glasses of wine!)

QueerforaYear Tue 16-Apr-13 12:48:00

Hi Outtaleftfield, I can’t see your original message as I think you have withdrawn it. I can only extend my thoughts and best wishes for you and all the other women who have posted on this forum. I can share my own experience in the hope it might help you decide if you really want to embark on this journey with all the risk that this entails.

I fell for another mum at my children’s school some time last year. The friendship became really close over the Christmas period although she remained oblivious to my intentions and culminated in me disclosing my feelings for her by text (I was a bit drunk at the time – it was following a Christmas party!). This was completely insane and could have resulted in the end of our friendship as well as deep humiliation for me. However I think even if this had been the outcome, I would not have regretted doing it as I had become completely consumed with desire for this person and needed the catharsis of disclosure.

In the event, it seems that my feelings were reciprocated although she was not fully conscious of having desires for other women. Within quite a short space of time a sexual relationship developed which has simultaneously caused us both so much joy and so much pain.
We are both married, she unhappily so. If I am totally honest although my marriage is not without problems, it is essentially OK and my h is a decent man who does not deserve to be treated in this way. I think part of the problem is that I have been able to develop a real intimacy with this woman and talk to her about things that my h can’t talk about. My h and I have a good marriage on a practical level, but do lack emotional intimacy.

I don’t really know what my sexual orientation is technically. I really don’t think I am one of those women who have lived their life in total denial. I fell in love with men and have had some very intense affairs. I have been able to connect with men on a deep emotional level (although I really don’t think that I have a particularly close connection with my h). However, if I am really honest I don’t think that I have ever really totally enjoyed sex - I’ve not hated it exactly, but have always had the sneaking suspicion that it could be better.

I have loved being with a woman, our time together has been amazing. However, I also know what I’m doing is wrong. I am deceiving those who most important to me. I don’t think I could ever leave my h and subject my children to the misery of a marriage break up. I’m stuck really. I yearn for my lover all the time and hate not being with her but feel constantly guilty about my family. The situation feels impossible and we don’t know where this is going to end up. I want her to end her marriage as I think her h is emotionally abusive towards her but she has understandable feelings of guilt and loyalty towards her own family. Clearly what she decides has to be her own decision.

Anyway, I’ll stop rambling now as I could go on forever as this situation is consuming all my thoughts. Please don’t flame me!

outtaleftfield Wed 17-Apr-13 23:20:55


Thank you so much for writing this down. I have PM'd you.

outtaleftfield Sat 27-Apr-13 17:00:27

I am writing to update everyone who has been kind enough to show support to me and my situation on this thread.

As I mentioned I have been completely hung up on a woman for about the last 3 years, the situation has consumed my thoughts, taken up so much of my head space and eaten me up. My attraction to the woman completely surprised me and has caused me a lot of mental torment. I have found over the last 6 months it has been taking it's toll on me, I haven't been sleeping properly and I feel that I haven't been present in myself for my kids and my family. My constant dilemma was whether to say something to her about it or not. This woman is in my daily life, I have to see her most days as our kids are very close and at the same school, which is why I have been putting it off for so long.

After much deliberation I decided that I just couldn't carry on as I have been any longer and so we met up last week for a meal. I had to do it for my own sanity, it was one of the hardest, most heart wrenching evenings of my whole life. It was quite surreal at the same time and felt like I wasn't really there. I asked her based on things she has done in the past whether she was attracted to me and she said no, she said it with such honesty that there was no uncertainty around it, I told her how I have felt about her, as in order to set myself free from this I had to be totally honest, she was very kind and gave me a hug and said we wouldn't talk about it again. We then had to struggle through another 45 minutes of chat before we could get away. It was awful, really awful, I felt so bad about putting her through that, but I just felt I had no other roads to go down in order to try and get my life back on track.

Despite everything it had to be done, I feel crushed and humiliated beyond belief. I haven't seen her since but will I am sure soon. Strangely I am not so upset about the outcome, it is more about the humiliation it has caused me, so this probably has shown me that perhaps she didn't mean as much to me as I had thought. I am worried that I won't get over this for ages, this really worries me, it is a relief though knowing the outcome so I can slowly dig myself out of this hole. If anyone has been through this or can help me understand how long it takes to feel OK again then I would be grateful to hear from you.


NotForProfit Sun 28-Apr-13 20:42:37

Hi Outta, didn't want your post to go unanswered. I was quite a regular on the TT towards the end of the art thread. & in a very similar situation to you.

I know you're feeling raw & wounded right now, but please remember what you did was incredibly brave. I'm so sorry you didn't get the response you wanted, but that doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. You've been so upfront & honest & that is always admirable. flowers

My own situation ebbs & flows with weirdness, even now. The life-changing event in my wiq's life has now taken place, & I love watching her grow into her new role, but our relationship can never be a simple platonic friendship so it's hard to navigate.

We spend time together & she emails me afterwards to say how good it was to see me. I don't know how to respond. On nights out, I can feel how drawn to me she is, asking friends to budge up so she can sit next to me - like we're kids at school or something! She's been dropping little hints about famous women she finds attractive; how unsexy naked men are to look at, that kind of thing. She comes up and puts an arm round me - it feels so good I need to catch my breath, but when I reciprocate she pulls away. So confusing.

Months ago, when I confessed my feelings to her I got no response really. She did arrange to meet me "to talk" but then stood me up. Eventually she rescheduled & I'm afraid I chickened out. Now, after a break, it feels as though we're both trying to build a platonic female friendship on a rather shaky foundation of mutual sexual attraction. Odd indeed.

NotForProfit Sun 28-Apr-13 20:46:21

I should add that we both have young children & male partners. & she's in a position of authority over me at work.

followyourjoy Sun 28-Apr-13 21:57:13

Hi Outta ~ Well done for doing what you did, that really takes guts. Of course you're going to feel vulnerable because that came from your heart but just sit with it and allow whatever comes up to come up and know that you are being supported by your higher self that guided you to take action in the first place. Be really, really kind to yourself and those feelings will pass. Don't forget why you did this, because it was torturing you mentally, so try to give yourself a (well needed) break. Try and turn the whole thing around and move forward with a big smile on your face, feeling good that you took that scary leap and it will be the best possible outcome for you.

The sufi mystics have some great wisdom when it comes to affairs of the this!

How much the Beloved made me suffer before the Work
Grew entwined inseparably with blood and eyes!
A thousand grim fires and heartbreaks~
And its name is "Love"~
A thousand pains and regrets and attacks
And its name is "Beloved"...
Heartbreak is a treasure because it contains mercies
The kernel is soft when the rind is scraped off;
O Brother, the place of darkness and cold
Is the fountain of life and the cup of ecstasy.
Rumi (Harvey & Baring, 1996, p. 124)

How could we know how deeply we have loved or lived if we never have experienced the pain of loss? Joy and pain are inseparable. The above quote from the Sufi poet Rumi reminds me of the preciousness of life, the past, my memories and the mercy of the Universe providing existence, life and people to love and to cherish. The ability to be grateful in the presence of pain is an integral part of the living process. To choose avoiding this pain would be choosing to have not loved or lived at all.

The Sufi mystics see "pain as essential to purification and as essential to the alchemical transformation of the dull human mind and heart into their secret gold" (Harvey & Baring, 1996, p. 124). It is the vulnerability, the open heart, the willingness to love enough, and the risk of experiencing pain and loss that makes us alive. It is not cherishing the wounding, but embracing our ability to feel, to be present, and to know the essence of life. According to Sufi wisdom, suffering is inevitable and necessary in order for our souls to grow. I have experienced loss deeply and often and believe, as the Sufis maintain, we must learn to trust in its ordained necessity. In the dance called life we must meet life as we find it and be present in the face of that which we desire least but cannot avoid. That is the Sufi way. We do not "run to suffering, but neither do we run from it" (Harvey & Baring,, 1996, p. 125).

big hugs x

ColinCaterpillar Sun 19-May-13 15:13:29

Hello, well I've lurked on here but never posted. I'm more to be lurking on the EA thread having come out of a relationship with an abusive man.

Well I think I'm happier to be posting here. I never had a WIQ but have always known I was attracted to women but haven't ever been inclined to act on it. Well earlier this year, I met a girl through my ex and we became friends and I went to stay with her this weekend, dinner, drinks, dancing and went back to hers. I was a bit nervous thinking I wouldn't know what to do, but it surprisingly came very naturally and felt right. The thing I was most struck by was the cuddling and everything afterwards, and how normal that felt.

It was both our first times with another woman though not really sure what happens now. We are both very 'straight' for want of a better word and enjoy men as well. I don't think either of us is freaked out or anything. I would definitely be up for a repeat performance but I think it is important not to get in over my head and be glad that she is undoing some of the damage my ex did and be thankful for that.

CharlesRyder Wed 22-May-13 14:22:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tropicalchancer Fri 24-May-13 13:35:03

I'm here, my head is totally lost tho so not sure ill be any help x

ColinCaterpillar Fri 24-May-13 13:39:56

So the thread is still going then! My WIQ has cooled off. sad

broodybeyondbelief Fri 24-May-13 13:55:49

Hi everyone

I've been on a couple of these threads(name changed) and they really helped me discover myself. God, I hate that expression really, but I guess that sums it up really. I can honestly say, that if it weren't for these threads, I wouldn't have pursued my feelings. I am so glad that I did. I'm not saying that it's all been easy though.

I know that it doesn't always work out the way we hoped, but that doesn't mean that it can't in the future.

If anyone wants a chat or are struggling with their feelings, feel free to pm me smile I have a lot of experience with this, good and bad and would like to think I could help someone going through something similar.

CharlesRyder Fri 24-May-13 15:13:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ColinCaterpillar Fri 24-May-13 15:30:35

We do Both like gin!

We have both just broken up with men - me a month ago with an abusive dickhead who I still have feelings for but that could be very easily forgotten given a bit of attention from WIQ. She is also a hottie - I've never fancied a girl IRL, and it's all very lovely, we are both very feminine and I like that. She'd been dating a guy for a month and he's just broken that off and she is upset about that. She doesn't seem to be into the idea of dating a woman, not that I've outright asked her, it's only a week since we spent the night together, whereas I would be.

What's the deal with you?

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