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Don't know where to turn - DH thinks his behaviour is acceptable, I can't get through to him

(239 Posts)
Pegpolkadot Wed 30-Jan-13 07:39:03

DH has always had a vile side. He has never laid a finger on me and never would but because his mother was physically abusive to him he in turn finds it acceptable to shout and hit the children.

The thing I can't understand is that he doesn't see that what he does to his own children is no different to what she did to him and that in the end they will feel the same way about him as he does about her.

Last night was bad. My DS1 aged 9 who has Aspergers revealed the extent of his constipation at about 10.30 when we came up to bed. He was terrified it was going to hurt so wouldn't go to the toilet. DH said I was being too nice about it and that he was going to make himself ill so he would deal with it. He towered over him shouting in his face, he tried hitting and punching him to scare him into it and when he repeatedly coughed he put his hand over his mouth to stop him.

As I put him to bed DS1 cried and asked me to promise I would never let that happen again sad

I have got to go on a course today so DH is in charge. Not worried as big 2 at school then my parents are picking them up from school. He will be fine with the 3 year old.

If DS discloses at school today they will call social services and part of me hopes he does. There is a good chance he will because of his Aspergers.

I don't know what to do. I've tried telling him this thing is not acceptable. I threatened to leave in August but he begged me to stay and changed for a while but the old him is creeping back in.

WWYD???

CheerfulYank Wed 30-Jan-13 07:42:40

Leave. I'd leave. Today. And I wouldn't go back.

Rainbowinthesky Wed 30-Jan-13 07:42:48

Report him to the police. Why are you leaving it to your son to report it? You are his parent and responsible for his safety. You are culpable by doing nothing.

Rainbowinthesky Wed 30-Jan-13 07:44:10

Nor do you have to go on a course today. You do have to protect your dc. Are you in shock do you think?

Sugarice Wed 30-Jan-13 07:44:20

He is hitting and punching your child!

Be a Mother and protect him, you are compliant in this abuse unless you stop him.

INFORM THE POLICE and leave this vile vile man.

MissPants Wed 30-Jan-13 07:44:27

Leave. That's what I would do. He should not be in charge of your children, or alone with them. He is abusing them and you need to protect them now.

Instead of waiting and hoping for your DS to disclose, take the bull by the horns and disclose it yourself.

Call Womens Aid. This man will not change, that is why his old self is creeping back in. This is the real him, everything else is just an act to keep you where he wants you. Always hoping it will get better.

It won't. Call Womens Aid and get your DC away from him asap.

Pegpolkadot Wed 30-Jan-13 07:44:45

I'm scared of all the fallout. I am weak. I am going to get flamed for being a bad mother.

purrpurr Wed 30-Jan-13 07:45:20

What kind of parent are you aiming to be? Do you seriously expect your child to have to rescue himself from an abusive parent? That is your job. Leave and report him to the police. I am appalled.

Kyrptonite Wed 30-Jan-13 07:45:44

Go home, pack a bag, get the DCs and leave. He sounds like a monster tbh.

Sugarice Wed 30-Jan-13 07:45:49

Sorry but you are neglecting your children by doing nothing.

Get help and protect your children!

Rainbowinthesky Wed 30-Jan-13 07:46:02

You are not weak. You have posted for advice. You need to get help in rl.

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 30-Jan-13 07:46:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kyrptonite Wed 30-Jan-13 07:46:34

Your scared of the fallout? How do you think your children feel being scared of their father?

purrpurr Wed 30-Jan-13 07:46:59

Peg, you might get a lot of shocked responses. You did ask us what we would do. Leave and report him. Not ask him nicely not to beat up the children anymore. You've tried that and it didn't work, surprise surprise.

Report him as soon as you can.

Droflove Wed 30-Jan-13 07:47:01

I'm sorry to say that I would have to leave anyone who abused my child like that. The poor boy, I'm sure he is permanently scared from last nights incident alone. If you think what happened could lead to ss being called, you obviously realise how bad what happened actually is. If you can't protect you children, that is what ss is for and quite rightly so.

You sound like a good and loving mum who deserves to keep and bring up her kids but you absolutely must put their well being first. I imagine it difficult as things are probably fine most of the time but last nights incident on its own is bad enough not to be able to continue with this man having room to abuse his children.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 30-Jan-13 07:47:51

The fallout will be far worse if you and your DCs stay with this man. Please take all the children far away from him, call the police about the assault and have him removed from your home. He doesn't have a 'vile side'.... he's a very dangerous man.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 07:47:59

Oh Peg that is horrific. Your poor son. That is absolutely and completely unacceptable and constitutes child abuse. Be in no doubt about that. I would be making urgent plans to leave. What do you want to do? Bearing in mind that you will never mahe your husband see what he has done as being wrong. Because it is his attitude that is wrong not just his behaviour.

Personally I have never understood the defence of being abused as a child makes you abusive as a parent. Logically it should make you more sympathetic. So I would also be wondering whether his childhood abuse story is a crock of shit embellished.

Glenrosa Wed 30-Jan-13 07:48:18

What's more important to you, your child's safety and well being or the opinion of people on a forum?

You cannot allow this abuse to go on. Protect your child. That is what being a mother is about.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 07:50:36

Peg I would also ring any sympathetic friend or family. You need real life help. Failing that ring Women's Aid.

Pegpolkadot Wed 30-Jan-13 07:51:26

I know what I have to do.

He works for the police and is the main breadwinner. His brother is a family law specialist.

What a mess.

VBisme Wed 30-Jan-13 07:51:36

Getting flamed on here is the least of your worries.

You need to get your children out of this situation immediately, he won't change.

If you don't feel you can do anything then call social services yourself (expecting a child to deal with this himself is not acceptable).

Peg

You threatened to leave this man back in August; this time around carry out this properly and do not let him weasel his way back in. Enlist the help of Womens Aid now and seek legal advice re separation to boot.

Just telling him his behaviour is not acceptable does not work because your H likely thinks he has done nothing wrong in the first place (his mother probably thinks also along those lines).

Surely what happened last night is the straw that now breaks the camel's back here.

What do you get from this relationship now?. Something has kept you within this to date.

You and this man should not be together.

I guess by his words and actions he frightened and or threatened you enough to make you back away re your son but he went on to terrorise him. What did you do whilst your H was doing all this to your son?. Poor kid. Why did you not call the police?.

I hope your son does disclose as well to his teachers but you need to protect your children from this man properly as of now. You did not manage to fully protect your son last night from his violent father.

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 30-Jan-13 07:55:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HidingFromDD Wed 30-Jan-13 07:56:04

I was that child

leave

MissPants Wed 30-Jan-13 07:56:09

You won't be flamed. You have come here for advice and support because deep down you know you need to do something. You just need to feel strong enough.

How did you feel when you were watching your son terrified of his father? Keep that feeling close, don't allow that feeling to fade because that particular incident is over. Let it motivate you to do what you have to, stop this from happening again. You need never feel that way again, your DS need never feel that again if you act now.

The fallout from acting to protect your children can only be good, not easy, but ultimately good. The fallout from failing to act will be horrid and you know it.

Be strong for your DC. They need you now.

Does the fact that your BIL is a family law specialist frighten you? It shouldn't. Please call women's aid and get advice.

frustratedashell Wed 30-Jan-13 07:56:39

Yes I agree, protect your family. Report him and escape. Get your parents to take the kids back to their house when they collect them from school. Also get the 3 year old out of the house, take the police with you if you have to. Or get your husband to leave.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 30-Jan-13 07:57:55

He was actually punching him?!

Can you imagine being sat on the loo trying to do a poo and having someone slapping and punching you and putting their hand over your mouth while you are doing it?! Its absolutely horrific and something that will stay with your son for the rest of his life. Poor kid.

Not much that i read on here shocks me but this has. You often read posters talking about the abuse they endured as a child but you don't often read about it as its happening, especially not with one of the parents standing by sad

I know this must be hard for you, but you've asked him to change, he hasn't. What are you waiting for?

BinarySolo Wed 30-Jan-13 07:58:26

By taking no action you are choosing this violent and abusive man over your children. Report him and break the cycle.

Lueji Wed 30-Jan-13 07:59:46

You leave.
You don't threaten.

Why do you think people will say you're a bad mother?

You could go straight to SS, WA, and or a police dv unit. Or even take DS to the gp and let him tell what happened.

BinarySolo Wed 30-Jan-13 07:59:56

Oh and whatever commitments you have today, drop them. This should be your priority.

FirstTimeForEverything Wed 30-Jan-13 08:00:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MayTheOddsBeEverInYourFavour Wed 30-Jan-13 08:01:33

You said you're worried he can't see that he is behaving in the same way way as his abusive mother, and that he can't see the dc will feel the same way about him as he does his mother? Well they are going to feel that way about you too.you watched your child be abused, you are not only not protecting them you are letting it happen, do you think that won't affect how they feel about you?

If you don't protect them and your son does disclose at school then do you think social services will think you're a fit mother? Do you think you are?

You can still change this, your son is begging you to help him and you still can but you can't turn a blind eye any longer

pictish Wed 30-Jan-13 08:02:06

OP call Women's Aid at the soonest opportunity.

I realise you are very frightened of the fall out and repercussions and all that can arise from it. You need support to do this....Women's Aid will help and advise about how to go about extricating yourself from this terrible situation. Your children need you to be strong now. If you do not take action, the repercussions will be worse.

We are behind you all the way. xxx

Pegpolkadot Wed 30-Jan-13 08:02:16

Every time I read this I cry. I don't want my children to see me cry. I will be back later.

pictish Wed 30-Jan-13 08:03:54

And please, can people not shout at her about her role in this.
She is very frightened of her husband.

It is support she needs...not recrimination.

pictish Wed 30-Jan-13 08:04:33

I will look in later OP. You have my full support.

Did you promise your son that it would never happen again?

You have to leave, you cannot possibly think it's acceptable to stand by and watch a 9 year old be punched because he is scared to go to the toilet. And have his mouth covered because he is coughing.

I'm sorry, I know you feel you don't need people on the Internet having a go at you but honestly? You watched all this happen? And didn't stop it? And went off today leaving him in charge? And you are waiting for a 9 year old to report it?

What happens next if this continues? He breaks bones? Causes permanent damage?

Keep your promise to your son. Call women's aid. Call the police. Stop what you are doing, collect your DCs from school and take them as far away from this abusive man before he causes more irreversible damage.

There will be posters on here a lot nicer than me who will give you good practical advice without judging you.
Follow that advice.

FFS protect your children.

BinarySolo Wed 30-Jan-13 08:04:47

As I put him to bed DS1 cried and asked me to promise I would never let that happen again

This broke my heart. You have to act.

foihnula Wed 30-Jan-13 08:04:51

this man's an adult. He's made his choice and you need to make yours. You sound like a loving mum, surely you don't want them to resent you for staying with this man. You're the only one who can take them out of this situation so all you have to do is make that first move. My mum left my dad when I was young (he was violent/aggressive) and it's the thing i'm most thankful for out of everything. All the best, you can do it! smile

Trazzletoes Wed 30-Jan-13 08:07:08

Just because someone specialises in a certain area of law does not mean they can work miracles with a certain set of facts.

You need to do something.

The Police have procedures for dealing with crimes committed by their own.

NormaStanleyFletcher Wed 30-Jan-13 08:09:12

Peg. You can do this. We are here for you but you need some rl help. Can you talk to your parents? A friend. Please please call women's aid - they can help you.

Stay strong

cuggles Wed 30-Jan-13 08:09:16

I agree with everyone else....it is horrifying, you must leave! Tell someone in rl...your mum,sister,best friend so they can tell you the same as we have and help you act and if needs be, keep on at you to do so...you have to!! You are only a weak, bad mother if you carry on putting your children at risk, they need you to be strong! And please do not go on the course...how do you know 3yr old will be ok...because he is less articulate about what happens in his day and less sure what is ok?! Worrying! Good luck, be strong

ClaimedByMe Wed 30-Jan-13 08:11:20

What happened last night will never leave your ds, he will never forget that and how do you know he will be fine with your 3 old, if that's what he does in front of you I cant imagine what goes on that you don't see

Inertia Wed 30-Jan-13 08:11:47

Sod the course. If your son has been punched -especially if it was in the head / face/ stomach - by a grown man then you need to get him checked out by a doctor to make sure there is no lasting damage.

biff23 Wed 30-Jan-13 08:12:10

It won't only ruin your dh's relationship with your children but yours too. You have a duty to protect your children but you are allowing their father to abuse them. I talk from experience, trust me the one who stands back and watches is just as bad, if not worse because you know how wrong it is. This breaks my heart, you know he should be out the house for safety's sake.

ILoveTIFFANY Wed 30-Jan-13 08:12:26

Look... You aren't weak. Just scared.

We can help you. Women's aid can too. But you need to be the one helping your kids.

Make the decision.... Come on, you can do it

I don't think having a go at the OP is going to help her. She knows what she has to do, is frightened of her husband and feels bad enough already. What she needs from us is the support to leave. Blaming her and threatening her and shouting at her like some of you are doing is not supportive. When you are in a situation like that you can't see the wood for the trees. Please don't make it worse for her.

OP. I understand that you are dealing with a lot today with your course, and also trying to process what your husband did to your son. Please can you Try, perhaps during a break, to phone WA or the police and ask for advice? You can do it anonymously. You understand that this situation is wrong and urgently needs to change, and phoning WA will help you make the changes you need.

AnyFucker Wed 30-Jan-13 08:13:43

I am in tears for your son

Please protect him and follow the advice on this thread

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 30-Jan-13 08:14:39

Please get RL support for this. Your parents seem engaged with your family, for example. Tell them what has happened and that you're going to be calling the police. If you have any friends you can trust, tell them as well. The Womens Aid charity specialise in helping women and children who are suffering male abuse. Even your GP would be a good place to speak confidentially.

What is most frightening, and what abusers rather rely upon, is feeling that you are alone in a traumatic situation. It's very common for victims like you to hide the true nature of what's been happening because they fear it'll look bad on them, or the children will be taken into care or similar. That's not the case. You've made a big step by describing what's happened on here.... please follow up by telling someone IRL

pictish Wed 30-Jan-13 08:18:28

What Petite said there.
Let's support rather than accuse.

SizzleSazz Wed 30-Jan-13 08:19:37

I agree with Pictish and Petite.

Please can people change this into a 'how to extricate yourself from this ASAP' rather than shouting at her.

OP - I am very sad for all your family but you WILL get through it and live a calm and happy life which you and your DC deserve smile

I'm afraid I have no practical advice for next steps but others will. I'm just here to support you to stay strong.

Punching?

He punched your little boy?

Get help, as fast as you can, to put a stop to this now.

Please, you need to make sure this never happens to your poor boy again.

DH thinks his behaviour is acceptable, I can't get through to him

This says it. Right here. Your H thinks he's right to behave like this to your son. You know you can't change your H's mind.

Therefore it is now time to take action and report this. You have to save your child. ABOVE ALL ELSE.

You need professional help here. You know that it has to stop. Your DS needs to see you taking steps to protect him and his siblings.

I think you have to bite the bullet an phone social services yourself and tell them that your husband is abusing your children. They will want to help you to protect your children. Your DS doesn't have to disclose it at school; you can do it for him. And by disclosing it to them yourself, then you start to distance yourself from your DH in their eyes. They can see you as part of the solution, not the problem. Yes, they're going to pick your life apart but that's inevitable now. But you can work with them (rather than seeing them as the enemy).

If that seems too much for you (or you're worried that your DH will know you did it), then go to/phone the school and speak to whoever is in charge of safeguarding about it. They'll investigate and take everything through the proper channels. Your DH need never know that it didn't just come out at school.

Do it today. And also call women's aid if you're afraid for yourself. As soon as possible, gather together all the paperwork you can (birth/marriage certificates, passports etc) and pack it into a bag with essentials for you and the kids. Be prepared to leave if necessary (ideally he should be leaving instead). It might seem utterly terrifying, but it is the best thing to do.

It doesn't matter that your DH is in the police. The police aren't going to 'protect their own' or anything else you might be worried about. In fact, his colleagues will probably be completely disgusted with him (because he definitely knows that what he's doing is wrong and illegal). Similarly, it makes no difference that your BIL is a family law specialist.

Miggsie Wed 30-Jan-13 08:33:50

I think you already know you need to leave - you are just trying to get the courage to do so.

Talk to Women's Aid, then start to get practical help from people in RL that you can trust.

HyvaPaiva Wed 30-Jan-13 08:36:07

You are weak, you are scared of the 'fall out', you cry reading this.

Your son cries because his father physically abuses him and asks you to promise you won't let it happen again . Focus on that, on him. Keep that promise. Stop placing the responsibility at your child's feet ('I hope he does report it'): this is your job, not your child's. Leave your evil, abusive bastard of a husband for the sake of your innocent children.

CalamityKate Wed 30-Jan-13 08:36:54

My eyes are prickling at the thought of your son being abused like that. I've got a son of a similar age, also with Aspergers and the knowledge of how he'd feel if anyone treated him like that, how scared and confused he'd be, is making me feel heartsick.

I'll get flamed for not being all "there there" about this but actually, fuck it. How could you go along with this?? How? How could you possibly see that happen and not be packing his bags, right now, and changing the locks?

Poor poor little boy. I hope he tells at school and someone gets him out of there.

KnockMeDown Wed 30-Jan-13 08:36:56

OP - you say your 'D'P will be fine with your 3 year old DC today. But how can you be sure that your DC will be fine?

I really hope that you have not left them alone today.

Locketjuice Wed 30-Jan-13 08:38:51

You really need to get your kids out of there!

Don't think about yourself just do it for their sake!

OpheliasWeepingWillow Wed 30-Jan-13 08:41:58

I believe you can do this OP

This isn't about you

This isn't about the fall out

This isn't about your BIL

This is about a scared little boy who needs you to be his protector

OpheliasWeepingWillow Wed 30-Jan-13 08:43:28

Is there someone who can pick up your DC today on any pretext whatsoever?

AngelWreakinHavoc Wed 30-Jan-13 08:43:42

Please get your children out of there op. I know it sound scary to pack your things and leave but you MUST.
For the sake of your dc ACT TODAY.

You will get lots of support on Mumsnet but only YOU can change this.
Please do not give this man any more chances to hurt your Children.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Wed 30-Jan-13 08:44:42

Also, by not helping your son you are being complicit in the abuse sad

Please please report back on how we can help you OP

Anniegetyourgun Wed 30-Jan-13 08:45:20

May I just add that if a part of you feels responsible for your husband, it is also best for him that this doesn't stay under wraps. For now, of course, the only important thing is keeping the children safe, but in the longer term you are doing their father no favours at all by letting him carry on in this destructive way.

It's a very fundamental conviction he has that being violent to children is OK, and nothing you can say or do stands any hope of changing him (not because you are ineffectual, but because you are his partner). He might, though, if something dreadful happens. Let that dreadful thing be discovery and fair judging by the law; not the realisation when it is too late that he has done a permanent injury to his child, or when he is old and looks at his children repeating the same pattern and is tortured with guilt.

Leverette Wed 30-Jan-13 08:49:26

I was that child too.

I only have my own family now, because everyone else knew what was going on but was too scared to act.

I can see your DH has made you scared of him, destroyed your confidence and twisted what's 'normal' for you. All I can say is please, contact social services today and let them help you. This also demonstrates to them that you are not complicit - that you are protecting your precious little boy and other DCs from this violent monster in your home.

Let us help you keep strong x

I'd add that contacting social services is possibly a better plan than just leaving as if it's a 'normal' break up. The issue here is that your children are absolutely being abused by their father. You do not want him getting 50-50 residency or anything like that. You need all the details of this to come out and be dealt with. Your children need it too.

Please please please for the sake of those children, leave him...

Your 9 yo asked you not to let it happen again, if you don't get them away from him you can't promise him it won't.

Be strong, you can do it!

Good luck Peg

MrsWolowitzerables Wed 30-Jan-13 08:53:58

Call the police!

It doesn't matter that he is a police officer. He is abusing your children!

Call the police, report the man for his terrible behaviour and then LEAVE!

SunsetMojito Wed 30-Jan-13 08:57:28

You now know that you must leave. Well done for recognising that.

I think your DH has given you a skewed perspective on whats acceptable and what isn't. Your reality has been blurred by this man. It is in no way more acceptable to bully a child than a wife.. Don't blame yourself for not having left sooner, just acknowledge that you must now, gather together all your strength (You can do it. Your children will thank you so much in the future) and leave.

Where is a safe place to leave to? Do you have parents who could have you all? Or a friend? Or you can stay in a womens refuge. They are pleasant safe places.
Womens Aid is on 0808 2000 247. They can discuss this with you.

Good luck. I believe you can do it. I'll come back and check how you are getting on. We're here for you ((((Hugs))))

SunsetMojito Wed 30-Jan-13 08:59:26

Good advice further up the thread to speak to Social Services to ensure they know you are not complicit.

Also, you don't have do do everything here. All you have to do is tell the right people what's happening and they'll do it. Let the school/social services/the police help you and your children.

You've already told us on MN. So just do the same to one other (strategically chosen) person. Your DS's teacher will do. Things can happen today if you just get on the phone.

I think the very first step is to speak to women's aid.
And I say that because you are scared, you don't know what to do, you have no idea what will happen if you phone SS, police, school etc.

I think what you need is for someone to very calmly go through each step with you. Women's aid will not judge you, they will help you.
They will help you with the practicalities, getting a plan in place, what will the next step be, what will happen.

Once you have done that, I would suggest speaking to someone in RL to support you through each step.

Does that sound like a start? Just making a call and getting it clear in your head what the next step is?

If you do it a bit at a time, it won't be so scary.

It's fear of the unknown isn't it? You don't know what will happen. So find out, and go from there?

RibenaFiend Wed 30-Jan-13 09:03:48

I am so so upset for your son. Please OP leave this violent abusive man and don't leave your DC alone with him. All that will happen is your DC will learn this as acceptable behaviour and potentially grow up to become their father.

Please take your DS to a dr as a matter of urgency. Have the incident "recorded" by a professional who can also ensure the punches have not physically harmed him, whilst making a note of marks too. This other adult and this action may also be able to start to instil into your little boy that his father's behaviour is far from acceptable.

Please please seek help OP

Flisspaps Wed 30-Jan-13 09:03:52

He is relying on his being on the police to stop you reporting him. He has you thinking that as he's one of them, they'll support him and think you're telling lies, and will do nothing.

They'll be disgusted that he has beaten a small child.

Don't be afraid to stand up for your children AND yourself.

AgathaF Wed 30-Jan-13 09:09:18

You cannot stay with this man.

You understand that his children will dislike him as they grow older because of what he does, but can you understand that they will dislike you just as much if you don't take action to protect them? The fallout from that will be greater than anything that will come from leaving him now to protect your children. Your role is to protect them.

As others have said - women's aid, social services, police. Today. Do it today. Don't let your children suffer another bout of abuse and violence.

I'm going to second everybody that's said you need to get your children out of this situation.

Do not be fooled by him being police - do you think that police are exempt from domestic and child abuse laws? (actually I think that it is known that the police are quite high risk but not sure where I have that information from). His colleagues will be as horrified as the posters on this forum and you will have support from them.

Punching a child is wrong by any decent standards and the fact that he is a policeman will not prevent the law from protecting your children.

There are people out there who will be on your side.

Ruprekt Wed 30-Jan-13 09:13:54

No one is blaming you PolkaDot but you have to act now.

If you do nothing then you ARE complicit.

Yes, it will be tough. Yes, there will be fallout. But there is support out there and you can do this.

Phone the police and phone WomensAid and get out of there today.

No one on this thread has said you should do nothing. You have posted here for help - now act on it.

BouncyPenguin Wed 30-Jan-13 09:14:06

This is the time to let your motherly instincts to override all else. I think you know this and you are seeking reassurance from us that you are about to do the right thing. You are about to do the right thing OP. You are going to protect your DC, end your relationship, report this man and move towards a better life. You will do this one step at a time. We are all behind you.

Callisto Wed 30-Jan-13 09:14:50

I too am really shocked and distressed by this thread. Your poor son desperately needs you to stand up for him. Do you really think he will tell his teacher that he was beaten up by daddy last night because he was constipated? And you seem to think that that your three year old is safe with his/her father. I realise that your reality is very different to mine, but really, you need to put your children first and protect them from this vile excuse for a man.

ComradeJing Wed 30-Jan-13 09:17:04

Please, please leave. Your poor children sad

TheGoatThatGotAway Wed 30-Jan-13 09:20:28

Pegpolkadot, you are the one who can break the chain here. What you choose to do will make all the difference. Please, I am actually begging you on behalf of your children, be strong enough to put an end to this! Wishing you every bit of support you need. And sending a hug.

'He towered over him shouting in his face, he tried hitting and punching him to scare him into it and when he repeatedly coughed he put his hand over his mouth to stop him.'

I'm not going to pussy foot around you because sometimes you just can't.
You need to leave this man.
You need to protect your child.

You are hoping your vulnerable child says something so you don't have to?

You need to take control.

NoBloodyMyrrh Wed 30-Jan-13 09:26:54

Please please phone women's aid, as scary as it is your children need you to be strong, I actually feel sick imagining how your son must've felt last night

MadameJosephine Wed 30-Jan-13 09:28:31

I don't post very often but this post is so upsetting I can't just read it and say nothing.

Please, please protect your child and get him a million miles away from this man, he doesn't deserve this

What sort of "parent" leaves it to her 9 year old to report abuse?

Do you think SS will still leave him in your care as long as you are enabling the abuse as a passive bystander failing to protect your son?

You are siding by your violent and abusive husband just because he is not hitting you.

Sorry if I am harsh, but you need a wake up call, lady!

If he is treating your son in this way in front of you how is he treating your younger child when you are not there? You need to get your children away from this man now it is your job to protect them!

BerylStreep Wed 30-Jan-13 09:31:04

OP,

I second everyone who says that you need to report this. By reporting it yourself, you are demonstrating to the authorities that you refuse to be complicit in the abuse, and it puts you in a much stronger position. Also, if it is you who reports it, then you protect your DS from feelings of guilt that anything he may say may be responsible for splitting up the family.

I would suggest dropping out of the course today - this is much more important. Can you get an urgent appointment with your GP to see DS? Not only to see if he needs medical attention, but to also have any injuries or marks recorded.

Trust me, the police will take a dim view of this, and will take action. I know you don't feel like it at the moment, but you are in a powerful position. I would be telling your DH to leave, and changing the locks, rather than you leaving. I say this because I think it would be less disruptive and traumatic for the DC, when they have already been through a traumatic time. I'm sure the other DC must have heard what was going on, and must have felt really scared too. Your H is in a very vulnerable position due to his job, and you can use this to your advantage.

You poor thing. Look after yourself and you family. x

MissVerinder Wed 30-Jan-13 09:31:18

You really need to call someone. SS, the police, your parents, anyone, and tell them about this.

Please, you need to leave. I know your dH is at home with your 3yo. would your parents pick him up on the pretext of a trip out or something?

Could you go home sick from your course to your parents house, let them pick up the eldest 2 and stay there?

My heart goes out to you and your DCs, but please, take action before someone else does.

shine0ncrazydiamond Wed 30-Jan-13 09:32:13

Agree with Quint.

No matter what your fearS, you HAVE to protect your child. And you have to do it today.

ArtemisiaGentileschisThumb Wed 30-Jan-13 09:32:27

My mother failed to protect me from abuse, she didn't have anywhere near the support available now but I still resent her for it, it has destroyed our relationship.
It's not easy by any means but you must protect your children at all costs, there are lots of sources of support to help you leave the situation you and your children are in but I can't think of a single good reason for you to stay with a man who treats your children so cruelly.
Unfortunately you have to take responsibility for your children's safety here.

pictish Wed 30-Jan-13 09:32:51

The sort of parent who is shit scared Quint.
The sort of parent whose reality has been turned on its head by a dominant and frightening man.
The sort of parent who is now reaching out to us for reassurance, help and advice.

She knows this is all fucked up, and she knows she needs to do something about it. That's why she has told us what is going on. It's the first step in her journey to escaping his abuse.

Please please please don't hammer her any more people.

If your mil abused your dh, how does your dh feel about his dad?

Your son will grow up and realize that you did not protect him, and hate you as much as he hates his dad.

Do you want this?

She has told us, and we cant do anything. She needs to tell the police, or SS herself to get help. She needs to tell her parents. She cannot sit and hope that her son reports it, because this will help her children but wont help her.

Pictish I think your plea will fall on deaf ears. Hopefully OP will see through the hysteria to find the useful posts.

And to be honest, I think she needs to act very fast, before her son says something.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 09:36:24

I agree pictish. She knows what needs to be done. I think after 90 posts of this she has got the message. Now she needs empowering to be able to make the change. For that she needs real life help and support.

There is no point her being railroaded into leaving if she is going to go back in a month because she wasn't ready or the support isn't there to help them live their life free of him. The leave has to be permanent. Therefore she has to be the one in control.

Badvoc Wed 30-Jan-13 09:37:46

I hope your son does tell his teachers.
At least they will protect him, because you aren't.
Leave.

Yes, I hope that the OP will look at the posts trying to help and advice her, and not bother about posts from posters turning on each-other, because that really does not help.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 09:38:33

However, Peg, you had the courage to leave in August, you can find the courage again. But you need that support. Ring Women's Aid.

I think she would act a lot faster if people were more calm and less accusing in their responses. You are not going to shock her into action people, it doesn't work like that. She needs calm, to be able to think things through, to decide who is the best RL person to talk to. She WILL get her children out of this, but piling on the accusations will not make her go any faster. If anything it will slow her down as she will just feel even worse about herself and more useless and unable to do anything.

OP, if you are still reading, you can get away. Pease look through some of the more costructive advice on here. Plea don't be frightened that he is a police worker, or of his llawyer brother. It won't change anything. You're about to go through the one of the hardest things you have ever done, but you are strong enough.

If you call the police, you can have him removed from your home.

letseatgrandma Wed 30-Jan-13 09:47:31

Blimey, OP. Is your son not covered is bruises? I would expect a call from the school or social services this morning asking you how he got in this state. You must make that call to the police now before anyone calls you. If you're on a course pretending all is fine then it looks like you are covering your DH's behaviour up and allowing it to happen.

brainonastick Wed 30-Jan-13 09:53:05

Ah peg. <<<Big hugs>>>

Take a deep breath.

What is gone is gone, you can dwell on it later. What matters right now is what you do now and in the future. Take some action right now to make your children's future a better one. Be brave. Imagine the bravest person you know and pretend you are them for today. Go on, start now.

QuickLookBusy Wed 30-Jan-13 09:53:42

OP don't worry now about how you acting last night.

It's what you do today that counts.

If you report Dp before your DS, ss will support and help you.

TotallyBS Wed 30-Jan-13 09:54:23

Yes the OP is weak and should have stepped in to protect her DS (sorry OP) but come on ladies, agressively berating her isn't helping. How about some constructive advice instead?

I suggest that you should firist get this on the record. Report this to Child Sevices. Tell them about past occurrences. They will decide whether the level of violence requires the police to be involved.

Hopefully this will put the fear of God into DP. The fact that he works with the police is to your advantage since he won't want to be tagged as a child abuser.

This will give you breathing space to think medium term and to come up with an exit strategy ie get a better paid job so that you can provide for your DCs, find out your council housing options, seek legal advice about your rights regarding shared financial assets if any.

harryhausen Wed 30-Jan-13 09:55:27

Oh OPhmm. This must be SO hard for you. I'm not going to shout because my own sister has been in the most horrible emotionally abusive relationship for 20 years and she's never left. Her 3 dd's are teenagers now....I've seen her try to 'double' love them, I've seen her self esteem slowly crushed out of her. She still stays as she says she hasn't got the strength to 'disrupt everything'. It breaks my heart every day. I really hope that one day she finds the strength to go.

Most of your post upset me, but the thing that got me in the gut was when your DS asked you to promise not to let it happen again. He's begging for your help. Please PLEASE find the strength to act. Even if its to ring someone to ask them to act for you.

Lastly, massive support and love to you OP. I will be thinking about you lots until you're all safe.

I honestly don't think the OP is going to report this straight away.
She is petrified of what will happen next.
It's all well and good saying do this or do that but honestly she knows what she needs to do and how to do it, she is just very very scared.

OP if you are still reading this, I really really urge you to tell someone in RL, now, today.
You need support. You need someone with you through this because I think you are too scared to put this in motion by yourself.

Please, please stop whatever you are doing, go sick or something and speak to someone you trust. And go from there.

The first step is the hardest, putting into practice what you know you have to do.
Once you take the first step, it will start it off and it will get better, for you and your children.

Find a family member you trust, talk to them, contact women's aid so you have a clear idea of what will happen, what rights you have etc.

PostBellumBugsy Wed 30-Jan-13 10:08:46

OMG - I feel for you and I can understand your fear. Even though you know this is bad, you are afraid you are going to make it worse.

I think you need to make some plans. Go & talk to womens aid, talk to a family member. Organise yourself somewhere you can go with the children at whatever time of the day or night you need to leave.

Tell your H, that he must not hit the children anymore & that if he does you will leave taking the childen with you. Tell him you mean this absolutely & you have somewhere to go. Tell him that this will be very bad for his career (believe me the days of the police protecting one of their own when they hit kids is over) and he needs to think long & hard about this - because you really, really mean it.

Please do not stand by and watch this happen to your children. I was hit repeatedly as a child by my mother with ropes, sticks, kitchen implements, shoes etc & it was not good for me & I could never understand how my father stood by & let it happen. I hated my mother for hitting me & despised my father for allowing it to happen. Don't be despised by your kids - be strong for them.

But the OP doesn't have to do all the reporting. She only has to tell one person who can/will act to stop this. It doesn't have to be as scary as phoning the police or social services; it can be as simple as telling the GP, the HV or someone at the school. They can do the rest.

The important thing is not to see this as a huge thing that you have to sort out all on your own. It is absolutely OK to let other people help you and work with them so that you never have to feel so weak and scared again.

And doing that will allow you to keep your promise to your DS. It doesn't have to be some grand heroic 'rescue' (I doubt any of you would want that). Sometimes simply asking for help is the most important thing. You've already managed to tell people on MN (expecting to be flamed for it). That won't have been easy.

Just tell one more person who can do everything else. It will be terrifying to do it, but you will be able to do it. If you don't feel you can say it, write it down and hand it to the GP/HV/teacher. They will have had training about what to do and can help you. Then it won't be a family secret any more.

In years to come, you'll be able to look back and see how strong you had to be to do this and you'll feel proud of yourself for protecting your son. I promise.

BerylStreep Wed 30-Jan-13 10:16:28

YY to writing it down. Good idea.

I'm a cryer, and I always need to write stuff down in case I burst in to tears when I go to say it. I'm not known as CryBabyStreep for nothing.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 10:19:40

Yes, good post Arbitrary.

Hoofhearted69 Wed 30-Jan-13 10:28:35

Imagine your son doing this to your grandchild in 20 odd years time...what would you do then? Leave and don't look back, while you stay you are enabling your partner to continue this behaviour and abetting him by taking his side by doing nothing to protect your child. Don't be a party to this by doing nothing if you really love your kids. Please.

HeyHoHereWeGo Wed 30-Jan-13 10:31:42

Peg this is the perfect time for you to do everything right and become a hero in your child's eyes..

He asked you to promise that would never happen again.

Did you promise?
I imagine you did.

So, DH wont do it again today, so you have some time dont you.

Could you talk to the teacher when you pick up DS?
Could you tell them you agree with a referral to social services?
Could you phone your GP now and make an appointment for later in the week?
Could you phone your closest person in real life - mother, friend, in-law and tell them you need help and support?

You have not failed your son. You made him a promise last night and you WILL keep that promise.

He will remember last night for ever.
He will remember - the time that Dad beat me up and Mum rescued me.

People react strongly to stories like this because it is genuinely horrifying to read.

Reading about it, from the comfort of our safe homes gives us the luxury of being horrified without having to live with it. People aren't trying to be too harsh or unhelpful. It's a knee jerk reaction. And a lot of us have lived with this or similar. So when we're saying leave, we mean it. Because it's not easy but it IS doable and it IS worth it.

I think the suggestion to write to down is a good one. Please do keep in mind that should SS/police get involved without you instigating it they will, quite rightly, question why you allowed it to happen.

It's in your interests as much and your child's to get this reported.

You don't have to be at a course today. You have to be a protector to your children and you have to protect yourself.

Good luck!

Viviennemary Wed 30-Jan-13 10:35:19

He sounds horrible. I don't think children should be subject to that sort of behaviour.

nospace Wed 30-Jan-13 10:37:33

Have you always been unhappy about the way your H deals with your children? How has he been with the older two?

There is no shame in getting help. You will get the help you need to make you and your children's lives better and easier.

hippyJules Wed 30-Jan-13 10:38:09

I feel for you, am in a very similar situation. One of my sons also has Aspergers and attends a special needs school. My husband struggles to understand my sons behaviour, like i do, as i spend the most time with him. He gets frustrated with him and does sometimes lose his rag a little too often and shout at him..it would never go any further than that, but like you, I am getting sick of his treatment to my son and my other kids. After all, we are here to protect our children and do the best for them.
I've warned my husband, if he speaks to any of my kids like that again, he will be out. I dont want my children to look back on their child hood and think bad of it.
I dont think you should be getting a hard time, being in an abusive relationship takes a lot of guts to get out of, you will need a lot of support, especially if you have hit rock bottom and have no confidence left. You have been brave to admit this,well done. If you have family and friends, please confide in them in private, they may be able to help you...or go to the Womens Aid forum and seek advice.
Hope you and I can both seek a better future for ourselves and our children. Big hugs xx

TheGoatThatGotAway Wed 30-Jan-13 10:39:31

He will remember last night for ever.
He will remember - the time that Dad beat me up and Mum rescued me.

I believe you can do this, Pegpolkadot. I believe you can be that hero. Even if you think of just one thing you can do today to get the ball rolling. One person you can reach out to for help.

Thinking of you.

catnipkitty Wed 30-Jan-13 10:41:50

Hi
What an awful situation, I don't know how you can even risk any of your children experiencing that EVER again. An innocent child being punched by an adult that should be loving and protecting them? How frightening and bewildering for your poor DS. Your H had no right having children and he should be nowhere near them. PLEASE get yourself and your children away from him for good.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 10:44:21

I believe you can do it too, Peg.

Try not to think about the enormity of leaving. Just think about the next small step, reaching out. You've done it here and well done you. Now someone in rl.

delilahlilah Wed 30-Jan-13 10:44:25

Report him as soon as you possibly can. I was that child too.
Remeber bullies are essentially cowards, and you can do this. He won't be the big man when people know what he has done, and he will hold no power over you or your dc.

LaVitaBellissima Wed 30-Jan-13 10:47:31

Peg sad please find the strength, pick up the phone, and ask for help. You can & will get through this, you just have to make the first move.

Keep posting

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 30-Jan-13 10:54:05

Dear God, I would have killed him angry. Beating a child trying to go to the toilet. I am raging on behalf of DS.

You can do this Peg. Lots of people on here will listen, people in RL will help (pound to a pinch of shit they're already suspicious).

You've seen you H turn from an abused child into an abuser. Acting now will change the fate of your precious boy.

The GP is probably a good idea anyway. Make DS an urgent appointment at which you can hand over your letter (if you can't face actually saying it all) and get something done about the constipation. Constipation is absolutely awful and can become a really entrenched vicious cycle. That way you can do two things to help your DS at the same time.

Don't feel that you are abusing the urgent appointments system; you are absolutely not. You and your son need urgent help.

And absolutely don't worry about the course. No course in the world is more important than this right now. It probably feels safer just going along with the planned activities for today, but it's probably best not to.

Miggsie Wed 30-Jan-13 11:03:41

OP- I hope you come back.

The reason these situations go on is that you and your son are carrying the fear, guilt and shame like a secret - while your DH gets away with it.

Don't be ashamed or frightened to tell people about this.

I bet if you broke down sobbing in the school playground lots of people would help you and be supportive - if you tell someone, it will liberate you from the burden of carrying this all around inside - you must feel so lonely.

Women's Aid will talk you through this.

caramelwaffle Wed 30-Jan-13 11:05:10

It would be a good idea to call Womens Aid and the domestic violence unit at your local police stations.

I have found them invaluable in offering advice and helping someone flee violence in the past few weeks.

ShamyFarrahCooper Wed 30-Jan-13 11:16:32

Oh Peg, I hope you come back. You can do this. You are stronger than you think.
Your son needs to see an adult standing up for him. I know this is so hard but you can do it. Local police or women's aid. Get your mum and/or dad to be with whilst you do it.

You don't have to do this alone, whether it is support through this forum, or in RL. You are not alone. You are not a bad mum. You are in a bad situation and scared.

We're here to hand hold/advise as much as you need us.

ShephardsDelight Wed 30-Jan-13 11:20:51

I would leave today as others have said,
If you do nothing you are guilty of abuse, you have a duty of care.

I can appreciate how much of a shock it is though, but you need to think of your son.

THERhubarb Wed 30-Jan-13 11:23:57

I was so hoping that this thread would turn out to be a troll or something, I just would rather all this was made up than be actually happening right now.

This is not the first time that we have had a poster on Mumsnet who is being abused by a husband who works for the police.

What else could I possibly say that has not already been said? She is afraid of losing the children so would rather watch them being physically assaulted than take measures to save them? OP, if you don't act you will lose them anyway. They will turn around and ask what you did when their father was hitting them. You will be just as much to blame in their eyes. Yet if you take steps to stop this abuse, you will be seen as their saviour.

Those children are living in fear. Just imagine how frightened they must be. He tried to scare his own son into shitting himself. I am almost sick with the thought of that happening and I am not even that child's mother - you are.

These organisations which have been linked and linked to again on this thread deal with this every day. They deal with abusive lawyers, abusive policemen, abusive soldiers etc. No-one is above the law. I don't care how successful his brother is in family law - high profile lawyers have gone to jail before now for this kind of thing.

In case you don't believe me, lawyer arrested for beating his girlfriend and here is a policeman arrest for domestic violence

Look at what is happening in the Savile case. Max Clifford and all those other well known celebrities who thought they were above the law. I'm sure they can afford the best defence lawyers in the country but that didn't stop them from being arrested.

Thing is OP, if you report it then this will be considered by the court and seen in your favour. If you don't report it but school do then you may well be seen as an accomplice.

I wonder if your husband's lawyer brother knows about him beating up his children? Perhaps he got into family law to exorcise the demons of his own childhood and help similar children?

Stop being selfish and start thinking of the welfare of your children. You have left this man before, you can do so again. You role as a mother is to bring your children up in an environment where they are safe, where they can thrive and that is not happening. Your son is only little, this abuse will get worse as he gets older and trust me, you will be seen as complicit by your failure to act. As a mother you have to put your childen first - before your husband and before yourself even. So step up to the mark and do the right thing by your kids.

foofooyeah Wed 30-Jan-13 11:37:32

Peg, some great advice here and I have nothing to add apart from I hope you can see a way to stop this horrible situation. He wont change.

Yes, listen to TheRhubarb

THERhubarb Wed 30-Jan-13 11:51:43

Your own son asked you for help. He made you promise that you would never let this happen again. I just read over that and couldn't stop my tears.

Are you going to ignore his cry for help? Are you going to break that promise? He will never forget what happened and he will never forget that he asked you for help. Woe betide you if you let your son down now.

NettleTea Wed 30-Jan-13 11:52:26

You have tried the reasonable approach by trying to tell him that his behaviour is unacceptable.
That didnt work.
You threatened to leave back in August, but he begged and tried to change his behaviour for a small while, but his fundamental character is back in full force
You know that what he did is totally unacceptable, hence your posting here for support - that is a good step. When you feel overwhelmed by an abusive bully it is often hard to know which way to think, especially if he has a job that provides him with a sense of power, and has family back up.
However your child has asked you to promise to protect him. He is asking you to get him out. He knows that you cant physically protect him.
Theproblem with leaving it to your son to report the matter is that if it heads down that route, and it comes out that he has been abusive to the children in the past and you stood by and allowed it to happen (whether you wanted to or not) they will act to protect the children and they may well remove them from the home. So YOU need todo the reporting. YOU need to show them that you are trying to help your children, not standing by complicit in their abuse. You need to do theis as quickly as you can because, believe me, if your son opens his mouth the snowball effect will leave you in a very bad position.
You need to pick up the phone to womens aid and social services today, not only to protect your children, but to state your position clearlybefore the whole thing is taken out of your hands.

pipsytwos Wed 30-Jan-13 11:57:03

Please leave. This wont resolve itself, it'll only get worse. He hit him for being constipated!? The poor love. You have been left with no choice. Leave, protect them. They didn't ask for this for this life and they don't deserve it. You're the one with all the power here, although you don't see it, but you are! Use it to protect them. You'll feel empowered as a mother the moment you make that decision. Life will be easier once your conscience is clear and you know that no matter how hard it was for you, you protected your children!

TheGoatThatGotAway Wed 30-Jan-13 11:58:15

Peg, I'm so sorry to add yet another post to the deluge you have here already. The person who said that what you need now is calm and support is right, I'm sure. And yet your situation is so distressing even just to read about that I feel I have to post again and share this, though it may out me:

I had an uncle - or rather, I would have had an uncle, my mum's younger brother - who killed himself because he was so afraid of his abusive father. He was eleven. The week before he died, he told my mum that he'd confided in his headteacher about what was happening at home, and asked her whether he'd done the right thing. How can a thirteen-year-old know the answer to that? sad This is a tragedy that has brought untold further suffering to my mum's family and left wounds that have still not healed, even 50 years later.

So many of us here want so much to see you and your children safe and free. Please tell us how we can help. Please be brave. I can only imagine how hard it must be. My grandmother didn't manage it. But please try. Please.

HecateWhoopass Wed 30-Jan-13 12:00:23

I think it's all been said, really.

But you would never be a bad mother by protecting your child from being hit.

You need to leave.

Your children need you to be strong for them.

They can't walk away. They need you to walk away with them.

This is terrible to read.

You left him once - you can do it again, and this time, you don't have to go back.

You need to be brave and reach out for support - your children are reaching out to you, please help them.

Doha Wed 30-Jan-13 12:08:55

I hope the poor DS does disclose at school what has happened and l sure the authorities will not be impressed by the OP's lack of action. It could reflect very badly on her.

meddie Wed 30-Jan-13 12:09:43

I can only reiterate what NettleTea has said. Please do not leave it in the hope your son will report it. This will put you in a very bad position as you will be seen by Social services as not protecting your child, by not reporting it.
For your and your children's sake you need to be the one to take action to prevent this from happening again.
I know this is frightening and the thought of the fallout and breaking up your family must seem hard to contemplate but what you need to do is keep your children's welfare as the main focus. You need Social services on your side to help you, not doubting your ability to protect your children.
You really can't brush this off and hope it wont happen again, because if it does or your Son does report the abuse then it will escalate out of your control and Social services will be involved anyway.

shock angry

please leave. your son has asked you to protect him sad it shouldnt have come to this

CatelynStark Wed 30-Jan-13 12:35:50

Peg, if you're still reading this, could you go to your son's school and talk to the HT? They will put everything in motion for you, as others have said. Please tell someone in real life. Nobody should have to live like this, especially not your boy.

Fairylea Wed 30-Jan-13 12:45:33

Please please please leave.

This is no life for your children.

If you don't leave then you are allowing this to happen to them. It's as simple as that. And the children will see you agree with your dh's violence.

OP after reading your original post this morning, I can't get the image of your poor DS out of my head sad

Please, if you are still reading this thread, do something now, before your H has another chance to start on him. Your little boy is depending on you - please do something now.

LetsKateWin Wed 30-Jan-13 13:19:44

Peg,

I hope you've found the strength to listen to all this advice. I really had to hold back the tears when I read your opening post.

Please inform someone to protect your son and protect you from being blamed.

You have lots of support here, but you must take the steps in RL.

X

tumbletumble Wed 30-Jan-13 13:21:25

OP, this is so difficult and scary for you. Agree with above posters about telling someone - anyone. Ideally the police or ss, but if not how about your son's teacher?

As others have said, if you do something now you will be the heroine, if you stay silent you are complicit.

Please, please keep your promise to your son.

Bakingtins Wed 30-Jan-13 13:31:06

I can only agree with the other posters that this is appalling and that you CANNOT stand by and let it happen, or the outcome will be when it does come out that you will be seen as complicit in the abuse and will lose your children. It's not up to a 9 yr old to report it, you need to speak to somebody today (if you can't say it, write a letter) who will set the wheels in motion to get you and your children safe. GP for your son sounds like an excellent idea.
I am so sad for your kids. Please be strong for them.

NicknameTaken Wed 30-Jan-13 14:04:44

I agree with the posters who say start by telling one person in real life - ring social services, or Women's Aid, or make a GP's appointment. It's hard to do this all by yourself - you need some allies. Start with one person, and they will help you with the next steps. Right now you might be almost paralysed with fear, but all you need to do is concentrate on that first step.

You mention that your H's brother is a family law specialist - consider this all the more an incentive to get documented evidence that you reported abuse, so that he can't claim later on that you're making it up to get residence.

One step, OP - just start with one step.

BerylStreep Wed 30-Jan-13 14:09:12

I just can't get over that dreadful chilling image, of a child in pain, on the toilet being punched and screamed at. How more humiliating and brutal could your H have been to your DS.

shine0ncrazydiamond Wed 30-Jan-13 14:37:49

Is this definitely a 'real' poster?

I really hope it isn't because I cannot stop thinking about how dreadful this is.

I really hope so too - but why would anyone make up such a hideous story? shock

GettingBig Wed 30-Jan-13 14:43:35

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shine0ncrazydiamond Wed 30-Jan-13 14:45:46

Well, it's a long standing poster from the look of things.

Ahh, makes me sad. I have never been in this situation but I would like to think that my instinct to protect my child would take over and that I'd do the only thing that a mother can do...and that's ensure my son's safety.

Leverette Wed 30-Jan-13 14:51:53

Can people not go down the troll hunting route please.

When someone is scared enough already about being believed and assisted, it really doesn't help.

imogengladhart Wed 30-Jan-13 14:57:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cestlavielife Wed 30-Jan-13 15:58:40

please dont let these children back under the same roof as your h.
get him to bring the 3 year old to your parents and you all stay there and report to police/gp./SS whoever.

your poor nine year old.....do it for him.

CuriousMama Wed 30-Jan-13 16:03:30

Surely the Police should be told about this thread? If it is real?

OverlyYappyAlways Wed 30-Jan-13 16:08:27

Womens Aid have great badass Lawyers, they even come with you to appointment should you need them, they found me a firm ran by ladies who were once victims of DV or their DC were.

My boys Dad smacked them on the ass and I had him removed when he to work the next day, obviously it took a bit of sneaking about behind his back, he deserved it though, he also thinks hitting Dc is fine, my DS was 9 at the time too, he tells me now he is 12 he would have ran away from home had I not had his dad removed.

ArtsMumma Wed 30-Jan-13 16:08:46

So sorry this is happening. You made a promise to protect your little boy, you have to honour that. This is a really disturbing thread, surely you must see that the only thing you can do is leave? How could you bear for this to happen again? Speak to your GP, call Social Services or get in touch with Women's Aid. Please tell someone in real life that this is happening. And please come back and tell us what is happening, there are people here genuinely terrified for your family. Be strong x

insanityscratching Wed 30-Jan-13 16:23:11

I have a son with autism and a daughter the same age as your son with high functioning autism. Their lives are frightening, confusing and stressful as a result. I cannot imagine the trauma and terror your son went through last night.

He will be so scared, he will link what happened to the toilet and will have terrible trouble by withholding so as to avoid a repeat beating, it won't go away.

You need to get your son, all of your children, away from this monster. You need especially to get your boy away and some help and support. He needs you to not let him down.

You promised him, he won't understand if you don't keep your promise, he will feel betrayed and abandoned by the people who he should be able to count on to love and protect him.

Get help for him for all of you today please.

brainonastick Wed 30-Jan-13 16:25:29

CuriousMama - I asked MNHQ about that, and they don't report to the police, as the police usually don't investigate anonymous online statements. They have nothing to go on anyway apart from an IP address.

ILoveTIFFANY Wed 30-Jan-13 16:45:11

Hope op has been back and read this.... At least...

TheLightPassenger Wed 30-Jan-13 16:50:02

if not possible to go to GP I imagine even an adult hospital A & E would have a safeguarding nurse /doctor who would help you take this further.

I agree with insanity - chronic constipation may take a while to clear and be frustrating even with supportive parents , so there maybe a lot more flashpoints if you remain with your DH sad

shine0ncrazydiamond Wed 30-Jan-13 17:10:53

There is no troll hunting going on

Merely disbelief that this is going on , being posted about, and then potentially ignored and not reported.

And that's just awful.

soulresolution Wed 30-Jan-13 17:18:43

Hi peg, hope you have been able to get yourself together today and make a clear decision to protect yourself and your children.

Your dh is a very sick person and has proved he is not able to change despite his promises. A person who can behave the way he did to your ds is capable of far worse and cannot be trusted with any child.

CuriousMama Wed 30-Jan-13 17:39:50

brainonastick so if someone posted they'd just murdered someone then it would just get ignored? What's being written here is a criminal offence as well. Beating a 9 year old. And one with SN at that.

BerylStreep Wed 30-Jan-13 17:46:11

I think police can get a warrant for IP addresses for some criminal investigations, however IIRC, it needs to be a serious arrestable offence under PACE, which murder would come under, but these circumstances, whilst dreadful and disturbing, wouldn't in all probability be deemed a serious arrestable offence.

<caution - rusty grasp of the law>

I think the main priority is to support the OP, and help her to see that she needs to reach out for help & support from agencies to protect her DC.

brainonastick Wed 30-Jan-13 18:03:41

Yes curiousmama, that's what I said. Getting histrionic about it at another poster who is just trying to help isn't going to change the facts of the situation hmm.

Pegpolkadot Wed 30-Jan-13 18:14:02

Thank you for all your support and concern.

I am now at my parents with the DC. At the moment I don't want to report it to the police and I hope you respect that. DC are safe and away from him and I have the support of my Mum and Dad.

Sorry it's brief, it has been a difficult day.

LetsKateWin Wed 30-Jan-13 18:17:35

I hope your parents van guide you in the right direction. I'm pleased you've taken the first step.

Stay safe.

soulresolution Wed 30-Jan-13 18:17:44

thanks so much for updating peg. stay strong, you have done the right thing. x

Sugarice Wed 30-Jan-13 18:18:49

I'm relieved that you're all safe.

Good luck and well done for leaving Peg.

Oh thank god. I'm so relieved for you and your DC.

I hope you can start taking the steps you need soon. Keep posting for support. You'll get tonnes of it!

Well done, peg. Small steps. You Can do it.

Flisspaps Wed 30-Jan-13 18:21:07

Well done on taking that first step, and for getting yourself and your DC somewhere safe.

NormaStanleyFletcher Wed 30-Jan-13 18:23:29

Well done peg. Stay strong

So so relieved for you and your dc smile. Thank you for update - we've all been thinking of u today. Well done for taking that first step towards happier times smile

Ruprekt Wed 30-Jan-13 18:25:42

A good first move.

TheGoatThatGotAway Wed 30-Jan-13 18:26:30

Relief and respect from me too, Peg. You've done such a brave thing today. I'm glad you have support. Take the time you need to process before deciding what happens next. And please keep posting here if it's helpful. I think a lot of people are really rooting for you. Thinking of you X

pictish Wed 30-Jan-13 18:27:30

I respect that Peg.

What do you want to do next then? What are your thoughts?

Leverette Wed 30-Jan-13 18:31:35

So glad to hear you're in a safe place

tumbletumble Wed 30-Jan-13 18:33:11

Thank you for updating OP. Relieved to hear your DC are safe.

amillionyears Wed 30-Jan-13 18:40:22

Well done Peg.

QuickLookBusy Wed 30-Jan-13 18:45:29

Well done Peg, you've done the right thing, for you and your children.

So glad you've got your Mum and Dads support and help. Let them look after you all for a while.

amillionyears Wed 30-Jan-13 18:46:00

I feel I need to write something but dont know exactly what.
I think it is always best to try and put ourselves in the op's shoes, not say things from our own shoes iyswim.
This lady is frightened of her husband. And has probably lost a lot of her confidence along the way. And has probably been told a lot of nonsense by her husband.
And it most certainly doesnt help that he is in the poloce force. And coupled with that, her inlaws know about family law.

op,I dont know what the next step is, but others on here do.
If you are all safe where you are, and when you have all calmed down a bit, mumsnetters will be able to help you with the next step.
Baby steps, as long as you are all safe, will get you where you need to be.

Hissy Wed 30-Jan-13 19:03:43

Oh thank god! I was coming back to this thread with only 1 eye half open for fear of no update, or worse, I'm staying put.

You did the right thing today, you saved your DC. You made a promise to your DS last night and you have kept it.

Don't ever break that promise to him. Don't ever go back.

You will need to report this, to the police, to ss,and to your Dr. Please take him to the Dr to get any bruises photographed.

If you don't do this, this 'man' of yours will get potentially equal and unsupervised access to your DC, and you'll have very little power to do anything to protect them.

It's all about protecting them now, nothing else is important.

The 'man' you married is a dangerous monster, who'll stop at nothing to inflict his demands on others. You can't ever go back to that. Please see that?

I'm so sorry for you all, I know how tough that realisation it, but I can assure you that you will never regret doing this for your DC, or for yourself.

Well done OP. Both for doing something (and I assume telling your parents) and for coming back to update. They both took bravery (the former more than the latter, obviously!) I hope you are doing OK.

Things will get better and easier. Perhaps not immediately, but they absolutely will.

Lueji Wed 30-Jan-13 19:23:23

Good on you for leaving and taking the children away. smile

They do deserve you, and even you say he has never hit you, you are enough in fear of him to do nothing when he abuses your children, and were scared of leaving.

Now, please do take legal advice. Your BIL may know law, but so do lots of other people.

The question you should ask yourself now is how are you going to effectively protect the children? How are you going to convince a judge that he can't be left alone with his children?

Unless you can think of another way, you must report this to the police, or SS, if you don't feel you can trust the police.

Cakecrumbsinmybra Wed 30-Jan-13 19:31:38

Well done OP. I hope you have lots of support to stay strong.

ErikNorseman Wed 30-Jan-13 19:46:48

Well done, we are all proud of you. Please keep him away from them.

Well done !

Fairylea Wed 30-Jan-13 19:50:03

Well done for that first step.

Please be strong and don't return to him. Like a lot of abusers he will probably beg forgiveness and say he's changed. He won't.

What are your plans from here? Can you get to a solicitor to ask for advice re housing and separation? Many offer a first appointment free.

I'd start making some practical plans now. You will feel stronger for doing that and less likely to feel helpless and fall back into returning home..

I'm glad your mum and dad are supporting you.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 19:50:31

Oh Peg you brave brave woman. Well done you. Massive hugs from me anyway!!

HotDAMNlifeisgood Wed 30-Jan-13 20:02:41

Well done Peg

Can I advise you to ask your parents (or other trusted person) to handle your email / phone for now? Your H will now start up a campaign of minimizing, begging, crying, and threats. You are too soon out to be able to handle this with detachment, and it will be best to have a filter between yourself and his manipulation to get you back under his control.

Good luck, stay strong, and well done once again - it takes courage to do what you did today.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 20:05:11

Yes to what HotDamn says. It will make the coming days a bit easier too.

AgathaF Wed 30-Jan-13 20:08:45

Well done. You've been so brave and done the right thing.

Inertia Wed 30-Jan-13 20:10:33

Well done Peg, so relieved that you and your children are safe .

If you don't feel you can report to police, can you speak to the Child Protection Officer at your children's school and explain what's happened and that you have moved the children to a safe place ? In fact it might be a good idea to do this anyway, so the staff are aware that the children may become upset.

carlywurly Wed 30-Jan-13 20:12:19

Well done. Now to get utterly fucking livid about what he's done. Use that anger to carry you through this and to make sure you never, ever let him worm his way back in.

I want to give your ds the biggest cuddle. My little ds has asd too and the thought of anyone harming him while he's confused and vulnerable makes me utterly murderous.

savemefromrickets Wed 30-Jan-13 20:23:28

I'm very proud of you and would like to think I have done the same thing.

Please be aware that you might want to put this on record when you are feeling a bit stronger in case you want to stop him from having unsupervised access to the children later.

In the meantime, watch your children sleep and enjoy the knowledge that whatever tribulations the future may bring you have taken steps to protect and cherish them.

X

Snazzynewyear Wed 30-Jan-13 20:32:03

Yes, you may need to have recorded this somewhere for later if the unsupervised access question comes up. You can't risk this happening to your ds again even if you are scared about making trouble for your h.

soulresolution Wed 30-Jan-13 20:49:55

That's a good suggestion by inertia to speak to someone at the school in the first place, it might be less daunting to start there. If your ds says something at school about the abuse, as you believe he might, they will have the background to understand what has happened.

brainonastick Wed 30-Jan-13 21:30:27

Well done peg. That's all you need to do for today, well done.

Get some rest tonight.

jasmineramsden Wed 30-Jan-13 21:36:17

I'm sickened at what I've just read in your OP. It is without doubt that you should take your children out of this vile situation immediately and leave this man.

foofooyeah Wed 30-Jan-13 21:36:34

Peg, get some rest tonight and lean on your parents for support. Think clearly what you want to do but make sure you put your children and yourself first.

It should now be easier to speak to the school. Certainly, it should be less scary. Simply because now you can say that you've left your H because he abused your DS. You are keeping them up to date with important changes in your children's lives, which means they can be aware of and sensitive to any changes in the DC's behaviour.

They can also record this and take whatever steps they need to but you've already made it clear that you are protecting your children. It's important that you have records of this sort of thing because you don't want your H getting any residency or even unsupervised contact with children he thinks it's OK to physically and emotionally abuse.

But right now, sit back and feel proud of yourself for having done something. You are all safe right now and that's the important thing.

MissVerinder Wed 30-Jan-13 22:13:08

Well done, peg.

grumblinalong Wed 30-Jan-13 22:23:58

You have put appropriate and timely safeguarding in place. You now have to give yourself permission to see your DH as an abuser.

Safeguarding assessments look to see that you have removed the child from direct contact from abuser and recognised the risks to your children. I would recommend you contact yr local auth social care contact centre to tell them what steps you have taken. I wouldn't leave it up to the school because duty of care ultimately rests with you. The process isn't as scary as it sounds I promise. PM me if you would like to ask more questions. I can't go into much detail on here because I'm a children's services professional.

sheeesh Wed 30-Jan-13 22:37:07

Please please please leave this man.

Your children need you to protect them. Your husband will not change his behaviour; if anything his violence towards your children will get worse.

Women's Aid and Social Services can help and support you.

sheeesh Wed 30-Jan-13 22:42:27

Sorry posted before I saw that you're at your mum and dad's

Well done for that

SO glad to see your update. Well done. I hope you stay safe, you and your children.

Have you told your parents what has been happening? It is great that you have support.

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Wed 30-Jan-13 23:09:46

Well done OP, and thanks for coming back & posting too as its been a very polarizing response.

It's so hard to be strong & make decisions that change your whole life. But your children need you to, & although it's totally not your fault you're in this situation, you can get yourself & your children out of it... So hard, but you can do it. Sounds like you were very brave today. Carry on being brave. Good luck.

Ra88 Wed 30-Jan-13 23:15:42

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

AbigailAdams Wed 30-Jan-13 23:23:05

Ra88 that was nasty and uncalled for. She didn't allow it to happen. He did it. He is to blame completely for his actions. She is protecting her children by removing them from his influence.

VitoCorleone Wed 30-Jan-13 23:27:40

Oh God thats awful sad cant imagine how your poor DS must have felt, especially seeing as though he was already scared to go to the toilet, in fact thats probably one of the saddest things ive ever read on here.

Glad to hear you're at your parents house now. You really should report him, protect your children, it must be bloody awful for them living in fear.

aufaniae Wed 30-Jan-13 23:27:40

Peg you've done the right thing. I hope your parents are giving you the support you need.

Women's Aid can help you find out where you stand legally and give you really good support. They are very busy, but don't let that put you off - if you leave your number, they will get back to you.

It is important you report him. I know it may well seem daunting, but if you don't, then he could be granted access to the children by a court against your wishes.

Wishing you strength to get through this bit.

5madthings Wed 30-Jan-13 23:28:16

Well done for getting out op!! Take it a day at time, there is support on here, you can do this, much love and strength xx

Good morning Peg. Wishing you all the strength you need to take whatever steps you have to take today. Hope you got some sleep and hope your dcs are ok.

TheGoatThatGotAway Thu 31-Jan-13 08:27:57

Good morning from me too. Thinking of you and offering a hand to hold through the day.

AngelWreakinHavoc Thu 31-Jan-13 08:33:51

Well done Peg. The first step is always the hardest.
You have lots of support here, please keep us updated and we shall advise/help best we can thanks

BertieBotts Thu 31-Jan-13 08:43:38

Fantastic OP. I'm glad you've made this very difficult step, it's the right thing to do. If you're ever in any doubt just remember your DS sobbing and asking you to promise it won't happen again - he is safe now. That must mean the world to him.

I agree speak to school, if they are going to school today. If nothing else they must know that your "D"H must not be allowed to pick them up under any circumstances.

Also Women's Aid will be a great support to you - contact them as well. They will not force or persuade you to do anything, just support with whatever direction you want to take this now.

How are your parents, are they being supportive?

PostBellumBugsy Thu 31-Jan-13 08:51:02

Well done Peg - I'm so relieved that you have some support & that your DC are away from your H. I can imagaine what a very stressful day it must have been - but you really have done the right thing. I don't know you - but I'm proud of you for taking this step - it was a brave thing to do.

retrocutie Thu 31-Jan-13 08:54:19

Just read this thread. OP, I cannot believe you have not reported this to the police. What if he requests unsupervised contact sometime in the future? What are you going to say? You can't refuse on the grounds that he is violent to the DC because you never reported it.

nilbyname Thu 31-Jan-13 08:55:07

You are safe, your children are safe. You have made a big step today, so feel proud of that. Now you have started you just need to keep going.

There is a well of support for you here on MN.

Call WA. Please call them.

NicknameTaken Thu 31-Jan-13 09:43:07

So glad you've taken the dcs to a safe place. That's what a good mother does.

I know this time is confusing and hard, because you may not feel fully committed to an escape plan, and he will be bringing emotional pressure to bear on you. I would still urge you to call Women's Aid - they can help break down the actions you need to take into simple steps and support you all the way.

Just don't go back - don't worry about practical things like schooling or possessions and certainly not about your H is feeling. Give yourself plenty of headspace - you don't need to rush into anything.

Theas18 Thu 31-Jan-13 10:05:07

You have to act. Police and out of there with the kids.

Not to scare you but to point out that social services could be involved with you ( as well as him) . This is "failure to protect" if you don't act , and quite rightly a 9yr old that you allow ( or are cowed into allowing) to be abused is going to be subject of safeguarding proceedings. Grow a pair, get your kids away from the abuser and social services will be on your side.

cuggles Thu 31-Jan-13 10:37:21

Theas - What you say about ss involvement is no doubt correct but before you offer advice like "grow a pair!" read the thread back even a bit..... she has acted and is staying with her parents with the children now...Well done Peg - an excellent first step. Be brave now and continue down this path...you have to! Good luck!

Well done for removing your children from that awful situation. You son will thank you when he grows up.

Please get some advice from Women's Aid and some legal advice. You need to do this otherwise your husband will be able to get unsupervised access with your children as there will be nothing on record about his abuse of them.

Women's Aid can even support you in moving out of area if he works in your local Police force and you are scared of reporting locally.

It's a new day OP , how are you feeling?

aufaniae Thu 31-Jan-13 10:59:33

The Women's Aid number is 0808 2000 247.

They can give you great advice and support.

If you can't get through, do leave your number - or I've heard they're easier to get through to in the evenings (it's a 24 hour line).

I didn't see this thread yesterday, and have just read it through now. Pegpolkadot - my heart goes out to you and your children, and I am glad you have left this man.

I do think you need to take some more steps now, whilst your resolve is firm and before your husband has had a chance to get in touch and undermine that resolve. Please report this to the school - if you don't tell them what's happened, and that your son is under no circumstances to go with your husband, he could come into the school and take your son out.

I also think you should take your son to the doctor, to make sure he hasn't been injured by your husband.

daffsarecomingup Thu 31-Jan-13 11:24:38

Dear Peg,

Just read this thread. Well done for leaving. it was a brave thing to do and your children will be so relieved.

Hope you are ok. my thoughts are with you.

THERhubarb Thu 31-Jan-13 11:58:10

Well done. I am so relieved! I had nightmares about that poor child.

Look, please please don't go back to him. He will turn on the charm and make empty promises, but you also have a promise to keep and one which I sincerely hope won't turn out to be empty.

You and your children now need time to heal. Your son may develop a toilet phobia, especially as he has Asperger's as they tend to dwell on things like this. A trip to the GP might help there if he does and they can arrange counselling or CBT.

How are the older ones coping? Have they suffered at the hands of this man too? You might all be offered family counselling to help you come to terms with it. I urge you to accept because growing up in this environment does affect children, even if it doesn't show now. It affects future relationships, their self-esteem and so on. My siblings have made some pretty disasterous decisions in their life because of the emotional abuse my mum metered out to us. With my sister, unfortunately she has continued on that vicious cycle and her children are now suffering at her hands. (Yes social services are involved but emotional abuse is a hard thing to prove.)

Please do take care of yourself as well as the children. You have done a very brave thing and trust me, it will turn out to be the best decision you ever made. You will need to keep being strong now and remember that you have already given him several chances but he has proved that he is incapable of changing his ways. He doesn't even see that what he is doing is wrong. Don't allow him to ruin your lives again.

Keep us updated if you can. You have plenty of support here.

THERhubarb Thu 31-Jan-13 12:00:52

(just as an aside, if you do change your mind about the police, being arrested might just bring it home to him that what he did was completely and utterly WRONG. There is nothing like interrogation and being locked in a police cell to bring you to your senses and make you examine your choices and what led to your being there.)

BerylStreep Thu 31-Jan-13 13:25:36

I can understand the reticence the op has about contacting the police. I very much doubt that the police would 'back their own', in fact the complete opposite. I think they will take this very seriously and this a job loser for her H which will have a knock on effect on her and her DC.

There is a wider debate about whether someone with such violent and abusive tendencies should be in the police, and whether their temper and contempt spills over in their dealings with the public, and in particular vulnerable members of society, however I understand the OP's primary concern is her DC.

However SS, the school or the GP can still provide support and safeguarding without the need to go to the police.

Peg, I am so glad you have gone to your parents. I hope your DS has got lots of cuddles from you.

amillionyears Thu 31-Jan-13 14:19:59
cestlavielife Thu 31-Jan-13 14:44:33

well done. SS can support and help you. you need to tell someone official.

if you intend to get occupation order for your house and him out etc this needs to be recorded.

his superiors need to know. i doesnt need to be you who tells them though - you can report to SS and GP and get their support
you need protection .

report because oehrwise in few weeks you will be back where you started - or he will be having unsupervised contact and harming the children even more .... he probably wont change a jot, until/unless he has an epiphany - my ex years alter still does not recognize that anything he has done is "wrong" - still makes excuses..

Ruprekt Thu 31-Jan-13 15:21:31

Peg - how are things today?

What is your next move? Are your parents supportive?

Just read this thread, totally shockingsad
Well done Peg for getting out. Please take the advice other posters have given seriously.
I'm sorry not to be of any help personally p, but big hugs to you and your children.
Stay strong xxxxxxxx thanks

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