Mumsnet Talk

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
a check list Use this site for some concise diagnostic lists and support
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
why financial abuse is domestic violenceAre you a free ride for a cocklodger, or supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.
20 signs you're with a controlling and/or abusive partner Exactly what it says on the tin

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans – He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
"Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!


Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out – You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.
heart to heart a wealth of information and personal experiences drawn together in one place

what couples therapy does for abusers

If you find that he really wants to change
should I stay or should I go bonus materials this is a site containing the material for men who want to change…please don’t give him the link…print out the content for him to work through.

The Bill of Rights
bill of rights here is what you should expect as a starting point for your treatment in a relationship, as you will of course be treating others!!

Oh yay, a new thread already! Fool, you're the bestest!

Am a bit that I took up the last post with useless pedantry which will now stare at me accusingly from my Threads I'm On page. Sorry to anyone who was about to post a far more useful link to the new thread. D'oh!

pony , fool and breathe Thanks for your quick replies and letting me know I'm not alone. Last time I posted on here over a year ago I'd just heard of EA and refused to believe that this could be the man I love. Now my eyes are wide open.

The voice thing that people have said has helped me so much. I frequently get told that I need to change my voice as it has no authority in it. But then I'm thinking a voice is just what you are, that you're born with. You can't just change it. And people at work seem to respect me.

Whenever I try to discuss our problems I get told that I'm talking in a patronising voice and that he won't speak to me like that. So we never get to discuss the issues. Or if I do then I'm punished by the silent treatment.

So I've accepted that I need to find a solicitor. How on earth do I do this. Do I have to give my address? How can I be sure that H will not find out? Then when things are in place I may just go part time without consulting him as then I will be equal in childcare.

Heehee Charlotte!!! Dont' worry at all.

Bertie, that sounds about right for a reaction from a 5-year-old. Play is priority! But I wouldn't be surprised if it mulls round in his wee head and comes out as questions or statements when you are least expecting it (and are therefore completely at a loss for how to respond! That's what mine seems to do...).

Talking about being at a loss, FW wanted to drop off DS2 early today (because he can never be bothered doing the last hardest bit of the day on a Sunday and the girls aren't there to help do it all for him. We were going straight out to my mum's for dinner, so DS1 came down the stairwell with me. But I didn't want him to come face to face with FW, I wanted him to stay at the bottom of the stairwell. Once I'd got DS2 (5-second handover), DS1 asked me why I hadn't wanted him to see FW. I started fudging it, then sighed and tried being truthful instead. Said I was just upset with FW, and it wasn't that I didn't want DS1 to see FW, it was that I didn't want FW to see DS1. He didn't reply, but that'll be something else going round in his head too...

New thread by the time this thread is out, I will have moved out.

5 days to go...

I have told my parents that I am moving out and they are supportive. I was worried about getting the usual advice about not annoying H, but no.

I asked H what he thought about me leaving, and he said he didn't know. He said he was relieved in a way, but it was also a bit sad. I wish he'd cared enough to at least attempt to change his behaviour before it was too late. My heart is breaking about splitting up with him because I think I still love him in spite of everything. In French we have a saying "the heart has its reasons that reason does not understand" - H will regularly call me names which would be bleeped out if they were spoken on TV, yet smashes my laptop because I lack respect towards him. Yet I am still crying about leaving him.

noone you can go and consult a solicitor, many give 30 mins free first consult. you do have to give your details BUT you don't have to employ them nor do you have to receive post from them to your home although eventually this makes life easier. WA are a good place to start for a recommendation of a local lawyer who knows about DA. Don't be afraid to check out a couple of lawyers as it is important you trust them.

the part time work sounds like a plan!

listens, it's just another way to undermine what you are saying. Don't pay it any attention, detach from it. I am now sure that I wasn't speaking in a way that patronised him, it was just a way for him to interrupt what I was saying, undermine me, and throw me off balance as I tried desperately to change my voice to something that wouldn't patronise while being upset that he was being so horrible to me. He's doing exactly the same to you, he's using it as a way to discredit everything that you are saying and an excuse to refuse to speak to you. It's all part of the EA.

To find a solicitor you could go to CAB. Or contact Women's Aid for their recommendations - it can make a difference if the solicitor is experienced in dealing with EA cases. Or just Google or look on Law Society's website, which has a search facility.
You don't need to give details when you make an intial appointment, I don't think, but you will when you go in. But make it clear that nothing is to be posted out. I used my parents' address for correspondence, while giving my home address for their records. Could you use your work address? Do not use your housephone to contact the solicitor, if your phone has last number redial or lists the recent calls made (I got caught out that way, because he was checking up on my phonecalls). Similarly, if you think he's checking your mobile, delete any calls made. Maybe best to call from work!!

Leclerc You are iron woman! Kudos and well done for getting through it.

noone I don't know about how to find a solicitor in the UK, but agree with the previous posters - he is using tactics to stop you discussing things with him. It wouldn't matter how you spoke to him, or even if you wrote things down, he would probably still find a way of blocking the conversation. Perhaps if you do go down the solicitor route and he sees that you are serious about ending the relationship he will be shocked into listening to you. Perhaps, or perhaps not, but at least you will have moved on from where you are now.

Nora get the on stand-by...

I know what you mean. I felt heart-broken that my FW couldn't make the effort required. And I still loved him. But he is deluded and living in a world of his own, as is your FW. Now, though, time has passed, and I think that my feelings for him are changing. They are not gone, but not as strong as they were. You will get to that point too, hopefully. And your own place will help. You are doing a brave thing.

nora - well done. It's so heartening to hear people coming through this.

I will phone WA for a recommendation re solicitors and I will use my work phone and work address. Thanks for being there.

I too still love my H but cannot go on feeling like at best unnecessary and often that I am totally in the way. But how does he make me end up feeling the bad guy and in the wrong for upsetting him. Apparantly I've really hurt him ....

I love the person H used to be, before all the shit happened. In my ideal world (wait for it... violins playing...) H would realise that his behaviour was unacceptable, and treat his depression. Then he'd meet someone else, someone who shares his religion because that is really important to him and something which came between us. They would be happy together. At the same time, I'd meet someone else who was lovely and gorgeous and all the rest of it. We'd all get on really well and all love the DC, and chat amicably about things like maintenance and access.

<its quite nice on this planet I'm on emoticon>

Noone, that's the thing. Everything is about how they feel. I have just begun to care more about how I feel about the situation and not how he will react after nearly 4 months of being away.

Nora, very excited that your escape is so close. Stay strong!

Nora love, the man you loved never existed, only in your imagination, only when he was trying to be a human being.

The sadness at that realisation of the end of a mirage is heartbreaking, but really it's for the best.

It ultimately doesn't matter what he does or doesn't do with his sorry life, he'll never be happy.

But you will go on, you will recover, be the person you always were, and yes, you may very well meet a real love, a real man, the kind of man you deserved all along.

I did. I'm not special, I'm just normal.

Normal is the most wonderful thing to be!

Yy to the voice thing. I get Loud when I'm talking about something important, he used this to not listen to what I was actually saying. If I tried to talk quieter I couldn't think what it was I wanted to say! Wouldn't you think he would want to hear my concerns? (Well, no you wouldn't, knowing he is a FW)

For solicitors I looked on the Resolution site, also went for a woman, and one who had been in practice for a couple of decades or more, as they'll have seen it all. Turns out her practice is also recommended by WA in our area.

I loved mine (or perhaps my own idea of him) till after I had started divorce petition. But my love shivelled and died in the space of a couple of days.

Silvery, my feelings have definitely waned since i started proceedings with the solicitor!

Nora, I have lived on that planet you are on for quite a while, even after I moved out! I'd say it's only recently that I have returned to Planet Reality. It's all part of the process, you gotta do it in your own time and way.

Hi fool thanks for new thread

I am mentally exhausted after being strongly and skillfully manipulated today. I only just didn't succumb because I seriously can't be doing with him anymore and don't love him anymore but if I'd had a scrap of feeling left, he would have had me - he is very good at this. I was left feeling sorry for him (for a short while!!) and appreciating that he'd asked me to share his lonely pain (until I grabbed myself by scruff of neck and shook sense into self). Now he's started on the "sparing the kids" our "duty to the kids" vein by text, arghhh help.

Court tomorrow for residency - I can see that legal proceedings are the way to go in keeping inappropriately kindly feelings towards fws at bay

fool re 3am comment - do you mean you don't keep watch 24/7?

I think fw is wasted in his profession, he should have been a politician, he would have been a roaring success what with his manipulation, self delusions, self justifications and of course moral dishonesty.

nora am so sorry you're suffering. You speak such sense to someone who's been in the situation; 'the heart has its reasons that reason does not understand' yes!! Only those in it can really feel it, and like you sat, despite all the abuse, you're still crying over him.

Am very much a novice to this (a mere 4 weeks in after leaving), and honestly? Every day has been a struggle. I just wanted to post so you know that you're not going mad, there are plenty here in the same boat, and keep being honest with yourself.

Well done for having the courage.

validation Fly lots of it coming your way, and keep the strength for your residency tomorrow. I am in awe of your strength!

thanks fool I tho, will not be up til 3! too tired - huge resistent strops today (actually yesteday, just lasted through today too!)

not me! the resistent strops. DC!

If any of you want a funread try this and see what your very own FW gets on the Psycopath test www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/jon+ronson/the+psychopath+test/8661884/

i was intermittently and .

a little light relief...porbably for after the move out and shake up.

fi go on, have some strops

Fool

I spent a part of yesterday thinking about the jumping on the sofa story (only a part - promise )
It brought flashbacks and I realized that there was so much more to it.
FW's violent reaction left crying, angry, guilty, upset, sad children. It created an 'atmosphere' for the rest of the day. It sent me between comforting disconsolate children and telling their father that he was out of order to hastily cleaning 'his' sofa (everything was 'his') and assuring him that no permanent damage had been done in the hopes of calming him down (obviously, I know, now, that he was perfectly calm; it was just an exercise in bullying).
Half a day gone out of my life and the children's because FW had 'gone off on one' a day we will never get back. (actually, furious angry emoticon spitting fire and with smoke coming out of its ears!)
The irony of all this is that I would probaby have told the children off for jumping on the sofa in their shoes Instead of getting the message to think before they did something inconsiderate, the only message they got was that their FW father had gone apeshit - again
But, of course, I was a useless parent whom the children had not respect for. (will have to design an emoticon angry enough for this !)

thanks fly, I jolly well shall!

I don't understand mine's rules, they seem to be completely made up (they didn't follow any logic or consistency, as I think like yours arth it wasn't about good discipline and boundaries, but bullying because I don't think he had a clue about boundaries, and cared even less). If it was the wrong day, wrong mood and time then look out basically, hence eggshells as it was so darned difficult to know which day and time it was to be! Mostly energy was consumed in those days searching for clues!

The rules are that there are only the rules he sets... until he changes them.

If he's stated something is black when you know it's white, it'll stay black. the minute you agree that it's black, he'll say it's white.

They do whatever they have to, to make sure WE are in the wrong and need punishing.

You can't win. He won't let you.

Oh Leclerc, that is grim indeed. Your creative group workshop sounds vv interesting!! Hope you enjoy it and aren't too tired.

I'm going to see a house for rent on Thursday. I don't know if it's the right house but the wrong time, or the right time but the wrong house!!!

Pros: It's in the right area (for DS1's school), has a garden, v close to DS1's best friend's house. It's the right price rent-wise, 3-bed houses don't come up at the price often.

Cons: Location-wise it's a bit closer to my parent's than I'd like (on the same street), And it's at the other end of the estate from here I am now in the flat, meaning that I'd be back to not being able to walk into town, which I find v handy and gets me out the house easier than if I have to lug the pram to the car, etc. Although rent's the same as the flat, it would mean paying out for credit checks and a much higher deposit. Plus, I don't know if all the upheaval is right for now, with all that's going on.

It's the right house for DS1 (for his friend and garden), but not for me and DS2 (for getting out of the house, etc). But I do worry about DS1 not being to get out to play with friends once the weather's nicer, think it could help him blow off steam.

So, in summary, I am going to see it but don't know what I'll do if I actually have to make a decision!!!

Pony Just think that your life is so much better that you have a choice where both options have something going for them.
Such luxury was unimaginable with a FW pissing on our lives!

Pony if its any help, I'd err on the side of the option that makes you happiest. You're the one that creates happy home environment that these little energy drainers thrive on! If getting out to town easily is it then that might be the best way to go, there are opens space for DS/friends to play too? I think you'll know more when you get there too.

yy to freedom of choice!

cheers to lovely lie ins leclerc - I got my TR done 2 days EARLY! yay!

I've got as far as writing down the WA phone number but have put off calling all day. It seems so pathetic. If I can't even ring to get the names of Solicitors then how I will be able to eventually leave him. I just don't think I've got the strength. We've been married 10years this year. Although I think the EA mainly started in the last 2 years (basically since DD was born) I know that there was an element of control present long before then. I'm so frightened I'm going to suddenly find another 10 years have passed and I've totally wasted my life.

pony good luck with the house. Like arthritic said at least you get to decide. I think we have had our decision making taken from us for so long, or that we are so conditioned to trying to guess what is the 'right' decision according to our husbands rules at that time that we forget how to make a choice. At the end of the day I'd agree with fi and say do what is most right for you. It may be worth waiting a little longer for the right house to come along, rather than having to move twice in a short space of time.

Its just one day listens Its not pathetic atall, and all of us here have been through the same possibly. We've felt its too hard, not enough strength. Try to call WA and get the names, even if you decide you won't do anything with them straight away. Just a bit at a time. Baby steps (an expression often used on here). Take it little by little. You will get there and it won't be taking 10 years really it won't. It isn't us that are pathetic but we are often left feeling this way in this situation. WA will be huge support for you to start these steps. take care x

Just checking into new thread, thanks Fool

Am drained at the moment.....just general FWerty....will come back on later...thinking of you all x

DM called tonight to ask why I don't stay in our current flat, and H move out. Hmmm, let me see.... because he doesn't want to and I can't make him. Then DM said what a shame it was I couldn't keep the flat, it's so nice and spacious and the rent is low and the girls like living there and... I'd been putting a brave face on all day at work but had to terminate the conversation with DM before I burst out crying! Its funny how people say the wrong thing, even when they mean well.

Noone I'm sure WA are used to people calling them and being hesitant to talk. If you could just call them they'd probably know the right things to say, not just launch in and tell you to call the solicitor right now and start divorce proceedings! Anyway, its often the first step that is the hardest, the rest just follows.

Pony maybe seeing the house will help you decide?

Hissy it does seem like H is not a nice person. I am kind of hoping that its the depression doing this, and not his real personality. I have suspected him of being depressed for a long time, but he wouldn't hear of it no matter how I tried to bring it up. When he's on his own hopefully he will take his medication and feel and behave better. Incidently, does anyone know how you're supposed to take diazepam? H says the Dr told him to take a tablet when he felt he needed it, but I thought that ADs were meant to be taken at regular intervals? Am going to wander over to the mental health boards I think...

X post Maggie, hope you are OK

Nora - google the drug and its efficiency, I suspect you're right. If he takes them 'when he needs them' you can bet your behind that it'll somehow be something YOU trigger in him.

My jury's still out on your dm btw, stick to your plan, you need to get safe.

I'd be wary of taking Diazepam atall Nora Its only good in the very short-term as its so addictive from my experience. I would worry about just popping them as and when, but cannot advise against a docs advice! I only take them as I have a chronic back condition, and, now very rarely, would take short sharp dose to get me through a couple of days, three at the most. It works differently to other AD's in that they, yes, do need time to effect changes in the brain to start working. I am surprised to hear a doc prescribing them tbh as they are so addictive. others can maybe balance that view?

Take care Maggie hope you hear you ok? (apart from being so weary with it all, hope your plans are coming together and are grabbing sleep on a real bed wherever/whenever you can.. thinking of you. x

Hi ladies, got to court and it was adjourned due to a technical mistake on my part. No biggie, I actually feel reassured by the future being punctuated by court dates so I know I'm not sliding.

Re diazepam, it is good as a sticking plaster but not a long term solution, IME. I have used it frequently for panic attacks but have always been wary of addiction. I am sure the doc would have given more explicit instructions than your H is conveying TBH.

When my fw isn't trying to manipulate me back into his control, he is emphasising the panic attacks, with the implication being that of course I am mental if I don't want him, as he couldn't possibly contemplate the fact that he is not wanted anymore.....

nini are you out there somewhere? I often think of you and hope you're ok. xxx

Hey Leclerc, am really thinking of you so much. Just that post alone, you have so much to deal with and you are managing so well - but I think you're right that you are managing externally but not internally. That's how I feel too. I think you've been so used to internalising all your feelings with FW, not letting on how you are really feeling because you don't want it to start something, that you are unused to doing anything but coping and getting on with things. So I'm glad you are going to see the GP this evening. Just be truthful and say what you've said here. You must look after yourself.

Breathe, what a shame the court was adjourned though, although you've got a good perspective on it. Hope you are all doing ok.

Thinking about you all, Nini, Maggie, bertie, Charlotte, Fi, Nora, listens, Matchsticks and everyone else. So many of us.

Still feeling funny after last week, and all the stuff going round in my head. Felt really flat yesterday, doing way too much thinking about stuff. This morning, on the way back from the school run, as I was walking I was having an imaginary conversation - I was re-imagining the conversation from when FW and i were lying in bed and he turned to me out of the blue and asked if I'd contacted a solicitor. (I had.) He then demanded to know what I'd said and threatened to get his own solicitor to make me reveal what I'd said. (Cos that's how it works, not...) In my new version, I read him the riot act - told him that if this was his response to hearing that I was so unable to cope with his ongoing abuse that I was looking to get away from him, after less than a year of marriage, then we were over. That he needed to sort himself out, and stop behaving the way he was, he was a disgrace of a man. In my head, he was apologising, and I was strong and determined, telling him like it was.
In reality, I froze in terror when he asked if I'd spoken to a solicitor, because I was waiting for him to kick off (again, with the baby in the cot by our bed). I was literally paralysed, could hardly speak. But he didn't do or say anything, which was worse because I slept not a wink all night, waiting for it to start, my heart pounding so loud I was sure he could hear it.

Aaaaaargh!!!! They are a bunch of FWs. I hate that I wasted so much time with him, I hate that I've become this shadow of myself. I was talking to my friend's brother last week at the funeral that I've known for years, who's ex-wife was very controlling and dominating (and we all knew it and warned him not to marry her, the only bright side is that it didn't last long...). He's still single, obviously a bit damaged by his experiences as well, but he's such a lovely bloke, and we had a great laugh, and it was just so bloody normal. I just kept thinking of how different things would be if I were with him instead of having been with FW. (And probably have been thinking about that a little too much... ). Head is full of spaghetti today.

But am heading off for a Christmas present treat, afternoon tea with teeny sandwiches, cakes and prosecco with one of my besties. The way I'm feeling, I know I'll want to quaff the prosecco and start on the gin, so have opted to drive...

Have a good day everyone. and

pony I think it is great you felt this other guy was nice. My CBT guy is always checking if the impact of FW is having a negative impact on how I view others.
Leclerc I can always feel your pain when you write about what you are having to do. Sorry to keep quoting CBT guy but he always says to me `but you are doing it' and that how I feel about it when I am doing it will improve and the key is just to keep doing it. I am glad your Mum will be there some of the time, you will feel empowered on the days when she is not and you cope - you will.
Breathe I wish I was as confident about court as you are, do you have any tips for keeping strong and not just crumbling, crying or freezing please?
Off to see my sol tomorrow - I need to establish some proper lines of communication as she is letting little things drag out and bog me down and I still don't think she understands the impact my ex has had in the past and is having now. I need some clear space between the things I have to deal with to keep me sain and have as normal a time as possible with my DS. The GP details have still not been sorted and a letter has gone to his sol without me seeing it first. I guess I am trying to keep some control and/or have some say in a situation that keeps just dragging and pulling me in all directions. Words keeping running through my head, need to shut up the chatter... I keep running through the various sitations I may face in court. It is exhausting. Sorry not replied to everyone, I hope everyone is as well as they can be today and as many small steps as possible are made.

Leclerc - glad you've gotten some support in RL as well as here.

Been taking a break somewhat. The stress was overwhelming, trying to NC and make sure H hasn't seen me posting here. He's not home right now, as he went into town. He was supposed to go to counselling, but rang me and was ranting about how the counsellor wasn't in office today, even though she had made an appointment. He sent me a text saying he was going into town as he wasn't fit company to be around right now. Happy at least that hopefully he'll be in a better mood by the time he gets home, but we'll see. He tends to "revisit" things that irritate him and get angry all over again, ranting.

H has been putting some effort in again, but it's still exhausting. Waiting for the other shoe, and most frustratingly, having to "police" his behaviour all the time, like telling him to stop shouting at us or telling him he can't speak to (or in front of) the children that way.

I'm upset because he has spent the entire weekend on edge and irritable because he said he was nervous about the counselling today. Now, we'll go through a week of him being in a bad mood, then another weekend of irritable while he gears up for the next appointment. I don't know why he's nervous. The counsellor only sees what he chooses to tell her, which I'm pretty sure is a glossed over version of why he's there.

GP wrote H another sick note for 2 weeks off work last week, so another full week of him being home. He's getting edgy now about returning to work, and I'm getting nervous he'll get more time off from GP. I've been trying to keep up with the thread, but it can be difficult trying to read it without H (or our DC that can read and will read out loud over my shoulder!) seeing it.

Hope everyone is okay.

Just wanting to add to your point about the h/w with FW situation Leclerc, as, ooo, funny that, the same! No surprise by now I guess that this is another sameness in their scripts. No homework time scheduled at contact, not even considered whether time should be allocated. All in a state upon returning home, late, as usual, without homeworks completed, continually. If it was done, there would be big moanings by his fw gf about the school and the levels of hw etc. (thats nice when you're a kid and need to sit there and listen to it whilst doing your homework). I use to do as you, as in allow much later bedtime so that homework could be done. It didn't work, I had to say, in the end, that I could only allow the time before the evening watershed of 7:30 to get homeworks finished. Sometimes that meant h/work wasn't done in time and warnings received, but it was very obvious who wasn't allowing the time for it, and I couldn't keep taking on the responsibility for the things FW wasn't doing. It made it very to DC aswell, as I set this as a boundary going forward to be aware of (WA instrumental in this plan)

have lovely lunchtime Pony - cheers! seems you've come a very long way indeed! (In my head, I have too, but its only in my head - just like Fonteine

Tears welling leclerc at reading your last post. So very ..awwww... mmm. restoring faith.

I want your GP leclerc so pleased he said that.

sorry to post again, but wanted to wish you luck for court, the ladies having to go through that, and better I've been completely immobilized by fear too; I was told that I didn't have to say anything or see him in court if I didn't want to and couldn't cope with it as the court would have to take the circumstances into account. I could be in another room, and write responses. I really feel for those of you having to do this, its like facing your rapist, and the courts don't expect that anymore. I can only say, take your time, don't be rushed by anyone, and breeeeeeeethe... xxx

Well yet another selfish rant from me...

In the past 5 days (since mediation finished) FW has tried it on three times...each time challenging something that we had in the memorandum of understanding (the agreement that the mediator produced).

1) he has tried to access money from a joint bank account that we agreed would be set aside for paying mortgage and bills only. He said he needed the money to buy food for DS on the days he was looking after him. When I said no to accessing the bank account but offered to feed DS on 'daddy days' instead...FW turned me down.

2) I am buying him out of the house. The agreement is that he will receive the money within 14 days of the transfer of the house to my name...or within 14 days of him moving out if that comes first.
He has now demanded that he receives the money ASAP...in advance of his moving out date (in 4 months time). He has threatened me with staying put or taking me to court if I don't oblige.

3) in the agreement we said we would split school holidays but offer some flexibility if needed. He took DS away at christmas and had him for an extra day...I didn't object. Now my family have offered to take me and DS away and Easter...they have booked flights already. I checked dates with FW in last mediation session. He didn't object at the time. He now says that he wants me and DS to fly out later and meet my family at the resort because otherwise it means I will have DS for 1.5 days more than him over the easter holidays.

I have to admit ladies that today I have had enough. I'm completely fed up. It's my birthday today and I've had to put up with threatening texts and emails all morning.

I contacted my solicitor and told him to take over. He immediately emailed FW solicitor saying: FW wont get anything until he moves out and signs house over...if he delays moving out, tries to stop the holiday, or makes any more threats, we'll apply to court for an injunction.

This is getting quite serious now...

bertie I too felt it should be at least approaching over when the settlement was agreed. But FW remained FW till the bitter end, including trying to do me out of money from a refund from an overpayment on our utility bills.

So you have to keep your loins girded <sigh>. In my case I am prone to stress-related psychosis, and had a v v short breakdown due to having not slept properly for a year followed by not being able to help relaxing with relief when it was, as I thought, all over - only it wasn't.

And when he's actually gone my body allowed itself to feel exhausted at last. But all fine now, nearly there, you will get there, one last push (like giving birth to yourself!!)

(((hug))) bertie.

Happy birthday love!

You do know that's it this that's driving him to kick off at you. Good for you in letting the solicitor deal with it. They sound as if they have the measure of him.

LeClerc, good to see you nurturing that hope! It won't disappoint you, I promise!

Well Silver I didn't cope to well giving birth to DS so I'm not that hopeful about my ability to give birth to myself!
Thanks for the encouragement though...I know that it will get worse before it gets better...even the mediator said that to me today when I told her what was going on (she says there nothing more she can do for us..."but that's not what he agreed!" she said).

And thanks for the birthday wishes Hissy...can't say it's been much of one...but in going out with friends at the weekend so I'll celebrate then.

Hope everyone else is ok? Xxx

bertie that sounds horrendous. I hope your solicitor gets things sorted so FW knows what's going to happen in no uncertain terms.
leclerc, thank god your GP has his head screwed on. It is great that you've had that validation in the face of all the crap from FW.
doing, hope you FW doesn't manage to get more time off work. It sounds like you could really use some headspace.

Things a bit odd here. FW is seeing the kids a lot and at the moment I have ended up eating there when I pick them up as he has done extra and I figured it saves me cooking. It is, however, giving him the opportunity to ask me if I'm sure I want to do this, he loves me, he knows he has been awful to me, why don't I just come home etc.
Obviously I haven't fallen for it, I would just be going back for Phase 1 of the cycle as I have before. He's even saying he wants to go on holiday, but doesn't like travelling alone-a loaded comment if ever I heard one.

DD is clearly confused as we are getting on fairly well. She said something today about us being married and I had to tell her we weren't going to be married much longer, then she started to cry and asked me who her daddy was going to be
So had to explain again that we couldn't live together, but it wasn't her fault, we both still loved her very much and she would still see lots of her daddy.
Waiting for his solicitor to send the consent order to mine, not sure where we are in terms of the divorce itself as I don't know if the Acknowledgment of Service has been sent back to the court by him yet.

Hi all...sorry not read much and can't really post properly as FW around next few days off work just wanted to say hi to all, thinking of you and happy birthday Bertie!

Oh....and...here is some background music to keep us all going on the right path outta here, I listen to it when spaghetti head starts setting in. My first batch of DC stuff loaded and hidden in my car during the dark hours to be taken to storage place at first light aka after dropping DD at nursery. Blimey - I feel like a secret agent, if only I had their skills I could karate kick FW into touch Mind you those pathetic self defence lessons I took in secret didn't work, maybe I need to get rambo on the case instead!

youtu.be/aKeD1_puAPg

Back on to post properly soon i hope hope you are all ok apart from the usual FWerty that continues to bloody linger with us all

oops forgot to say Happy Birthday to bertie plus my post sounds as if it's all about me, but that was intended for comparison purposes.

That is a small dose leClerc and it may take a little while to feel the effects.

Can you ring sol to find whether he's acknowledged, matchsticks?

I expect mine will let me know when she's heard back from the court silver. I think he won't be rushing with things as he's still hoping I will 'come to my senses'.

Is there some special logistical reason why your DM can't be in two places at the same time Leclerc , or you? oh sorry, if thats not funny, I read it that way first time and had a chuckle.

Very Happy Birthday bertie more more - trying to spoil you for your rough day. You solicitor sounds right on the case and taking no BS - excellent! (seems par for the course, the worsening and sliding into the complete FW pit land)

Can't write much as H is here but just checking in. Thinking of everyone. I like the music references - I like Katy Perry 'firework' (despite hating most of her stuff!!). Happy birthday Bertie. Like others say - Think of next year.

I am planning on phoning WA when H is out. He was lovely yesterday which as usual disarmed me ... but back to the usual crap and sulkiness today. Almost reassuring ...

Like you say match think its probably confusing for her?

<beret & dark glassed agent sneaks in and whispers behind paper to agent Maggie - good luck for dawn raid>

Agree about Britney Leclerc, mind you I feel like shaving my head most days too! Bad hair days are very frequent here with my big old wig of a head! Oh to be perfectly preened like those yummy mummys instead of looking like I got dressed in the dark and then dragged through a hedge on the nursery run! I love music, sometimes feel like I use it to escape and seem to relate songs very much to my emotions/situations/people. Oh god, maybe I am going nuts like Britney! Back later....back to sitting in silence watching TV with FW xx

Thank you Agent Fi!! x

Happy Birthday Bertie

Leclerc yay for your GP. It is a low dose and came with sensible advice. Glad to hear that. Seems very sensible

Hiya noone maggie fi silver matchsticks x

yes, weirdly familiar / reassuring listens - but not for long!!!

hello kitty <waving>

have to go now as spent entire night with dd1 having meltdown (all w/end and week so far) and needing lots of hand holding, massages, tucking in and quiet chats - oh dear, next deadline slipping - hair coming out in handfuls again! Going to try and read about statistics in bed. Yep you guessed it, I'll be asleep before finishing the first.......para.. sentence..

night all, peace to all

Good luck with the stats, Fi!

I was on the point of writing more honestly to FW this eve than ever before in response to his pushes for an international move in the autumn. Suddenly stopped by the thought that he's going on holiday with the 3 older dcs in two weeks' time, which would be a perfect opportunity for some manipulative telling them his version of the truth and putting all sorts of fears into their heads.

So it's back to the deception till it's safer to throw it off. Not really thought of him as dangerous before... I'm writing and lying saying I'm giving moving to Africa some thought...

Blimey, I spend one evening working instead of faffing about online important Mumsnet perusing, and it's all gorn off!!!!

Bertie, happy birthday. I am sure you can't wait to see the back of this one, but do enjoy your weekend celebration with friends. And everyone is right, he's pushing as hard as he can against you to see how far he can get. He's a FW through and through. Throw him to the solicitors, you've done all you can, they can take him to court and demonstrate that he refused to stick to what was agreed in mediation and a v dim view will be taken of that, I'm sure.

Leclerc, sounds like a good, positive move for you. I found that the ADs just enabled me to go back to functioning - no massive happiness rush (because my situation was still mince) but I could get through the day and speak to people, do normal tasks and not be on the verge of throwing myself onto the floor all the time. Hopefully they'll do something similar for you - although the chemicals themselves probably wont kick in for a week or two, the fact that you are doing something positive for yourself could have a lifting effect on your mood anyway. As will the swimming - go for it!

Doing - am thinking of you, hope you can get him back to work soon and get your own work going - your plan to get out (or get him out).

Matchsticks - much as I hate to say it (because I hate cooking and will always jump at the chance of dinner from other means), I think he's deliberately luring you to stay for food (ie making more on purpose). Resist and eat at home!!!!

Maggie, I might just have to do a Britney vair soon if these little crawly buggers don't absent themselves from my life!!!!! Loving the idea of you incognito!!

Noone - I like Fireworks too, it makes my inexplicably leak!!!!

Fi - that all sounds really, really hard going with DD. You seem to have much more cavernous reservoirs of patience than me. But look after yourself too, my lovely.

Had a lovely lunch today with my friend, ate teeny sarnies and lots and lots of cakes and sat for nearly 4hrs just gassing! We righted the wrongs in her life and mine (agreed I'm absolutely not to email my friend's brother... which I knew really but was half entertaining...!!). Lovely!!!! And my first day of a decent amount of work for ages. So although it's kept me up till 11pm doing work (and will probably do the same tomorrow night), I don't mind really, it's a nice change from sitting worrying at everything in my head all evening.

On that note, g'nite all (and hello to Breath, who seems to be keeping owlish hours in her new life as fabulous flying away fairy!).

Thanks for the birthday wishes Pony and everyone! I will do my best to enjoy my night out at the weekend...

I've been awake since 3am...going over the days events in my head. It's been a really horrible day. I think the worst bit was a text I got from FW where he was going on about his being 'entitled' to spend equal time with DS and how he would fight for it.

For some reason this has affected me deep down...he doesn't see DS as the one with the rights to have a relationship with his daddy (and his mummy). FW sees himself as 'entitled'. I mean I know he's been acting like an entitled twat for many years now....but this makes me really

In the past few days I've opened up to a few more friends and actually shown them some of the texts I've been getting. The shock on their faces was enough to tell me that I'm not imagining his FWittery (funny how I keep having to check that it's not just me overreacting).

Bless my friends as they've all offered me overnight stays with them if I need to get away. I would love to but at the moment I can't do an overnight during term time (due to child care schedule). I hope to get away with DS at half term for a few days though...

I think I've given up on sleep now! DS will probably be up in an hour

Have been doing the same Leclerc and you're right, it is a LOT harder to find those reasons when there hasn't been physical (or you don't want to share the physical) abuse. I yo-yo between and it drives me nuts!

Am I doing too much do you think with the sitting up every night settling and quiet chats? Last night did see the final woosh, sharing what had been so upsetting all this time. I'm hoping DD1 will feel some relief from that now and things will improve <tightly crossing fingers> She's holding tightly onto stuff so its taken all this time to let it out, with some cajoaling and gentle massaging it out!

Bertie sorry for your night of fretting about it all You reminded me of me emailing my XFW (he's still a FW, not X because he used to be a FW!) when super cross about his entitled behaviour one time (before the days of detach, detach...) and wrote that the rights belong to the child - I should have then run for cover! the email back was crazy crazy talk (see you in court! No father's rights, fu...off You'll see me on the news dressed as superman at the top of the eiffel tower! amongst threats of other coming round to 'sort me out' and him going round to our [ex] mutual friends to tell them what a f..g bit** I am) crazy making, crap, which did scare me. Just think its ridiculous rantings of a crazy FW. Keep your defence barriers high for increased FWittery.

Pony those unwelcome guests should have long since vacated! Is he sat next to someone with them? or maybe FW has them and keeps reinfesting?
You have to comb from scalp to end, round and round head till none coming? I hate everything about them, the whole thing is such a pain but that combing ensures that none can mature to lay more. If they are quite big, then reinfestation is more likely. The only I had them for any length was when there was a student here. I was doing us, and then (after some weeks of them not going) had to broach it with the student!?!?! She was riddled with the biggest ones I'd EVER seen! <skin crawling> so had to do her too, then finally we were all clear.

Silvery sorry to hear of FW's damaging your MH so I'm off to mediTation room.

In the end the books lay on the bed next to me a while I slept, just thethought of stats made me too tired to stay awake! So off for that now. I'm still considering ADs. ooooops long post soz

Leclerc indeed, f***ing wanker hardly begins to cover it (I had removed forgotten the going through of the bags . Just think, soon you will be able to change all the locks and get a big dog

LeClerc I would be wary of doing anything at this point! He may be doing it to try and provoke a response. Don't let him know you're onto him as it will just play into his game. An email might just let him know that he still has the ability to upset you. Just be more wary at handover times... sounds like he is trying to push his way back into some position of power.

Evil thought (or stupid gameplaying)-- can you set a trap for him, ie switch bags and leave one as a 'decoy' with something in it he'd have to notice/mention (or filled with indelible ink!) then you could act shocked that he would have the nerve to 'trespass' into your private property. Then you could log that with solicitors/SS/counsellors as an example of how he is not moving on. And you retain the moral high ground?

Leave him on the doorstep!

In the hall, Leclerc? Don't you mean outside the front door? I simply do notknow how you stay sane!

Not got advice on handovers as my children are grown, but I would always be wary about communicating with FWs in any way except through a baseball bat / f***ing big boot / hit woman lawyer.
I would either leave it, and just act on it: boys outside house with bags on leaving. You outside house on returning. And/or take legal advice at this point.

The girls will fit in around this, I am sure.

Final comment (well, ok, not final ) is that, by dog, I did not mean the turncoat you are re-training, but the rescue doberman you will soon have, who can smell a FW at a 100 paces.

Even when regular couples separate there is no 'entitlement' enter the house again after separation, unless explicitly invited in. According to WA/Police.
Make it obvious by your actions that it will be done outside,(agreeing with arth) keep door locked, bags outside etc. The DC will all realise the way it works, although may not understand!

Doesn't matter - feelings are what we feel.
Feel the fear and do it anyway (with virtual handholding, here)

Just logging on quickly to say go for it Leclerc. I was so completely fuming on your behalf, what a terrible, terrible invasion. He really has no intention of changing at all, because he still believes it's his right to go through your stuff to look for incriminations. I have absolutely no idea if asking him to stay out of the house is the best thing to do or not, but it doesn't matter, it's what you want to do. And there's no reason why you should explain why either, so remember that when he asks for an explanation.

I second the 'feel the fear and do it anyway'. And then tell the counsellor from his programme all about it. <screw the bastard>

it won't always frighten you Leclerc - is what I was going to say, but, and without knowing the exact details of his removal from the home, he is a very dangerous man and it puzzles me how he is allowed anywhere near your home!

You have a very healthy fear of him, that I think you should take notice of and make sure someone else is always there for pickup, or change pickups to make sure they absolutely suit you and keep you safe, either with your DM, or at a place, like at the end of your drive/path, where you can be clearly seen and he can text you, but he mustn't be allowed to continue thinking he can just come and go. Boundaries must be very clear and he must respect them or consequences should occur.

I know we all know this word, and I hate to say it back to you, but don't ever minimalise the very real risk he poses to you. This man is no longer your friend and there is no need for pleases or thank yous and the nice things that friends do. State your case (that way that you are happy, and is safe).

There will be little point in you having done all this only for him to turn up in a mood one day when collecting and barge in, etc. and reenact the throttling scene. I never thought mine would take the next step post finale, but he did absolutely get worse and finally 'lost it' in front of the whole neighbourhood. I just hate to think you may be taking risks, with a man whose proved to all that he doesn't have any limits. You can't manage him or his wild moods, entitlements and behaviours, manage your environment to be safe to your absolute satisfaction.

Maybe you could insist that a trusted friend/family member of his accompany him from now on because you are aware of how many boundaries he crossed at his last visit, so you will have to make the distance greater. He seems SOOO entitled it is scarey. Keep him as far away as possible. Does he never behave badly to the DC?

I hope that comes across as desperate concern for you all and need to create strong safety zones around you, all is your choice at the end of the day of course. We are not here to create nice easy pickup terms for them, only safe ones and whatever that must entail, but he must never have the opportunity again.

You need to be relaxed now he's gone, he has crossed forbidden boundaries by enterin 'your' home not to say, going through your BAG?!! rubbing against you !!

I think you must still trust him more than is healthy/safe, but I hope not.

Sorry for long post folks, and I hope you take in the way intended Leclerc take care xx

What Fi says

You have evidently been through a lot to get this far, but sadly he is still abusing. But it is alot easier now you have so many on your side to dictate boundaries and he'll just have to stick to them. Are you really happy that the front door is far enough? that he wouldn't step in and completely take advantage if you had to step back into the house to grab a forgotten something. Remember he could easily come to you for a pick up, already feeling oh so entitled and enraged and behave in his sinister cloak but fully take advantage and give you back all the troubles/hoops 'you've' made him jump through (I know the script, having heard it so many times reeled back at me!). You have to think of the worst case scenario again, not the one we prefer to hope for in our heads.

I don't think you will always feel so frightened, but facing up to these kind of challenges where boundaries are concerned will make all that difference to you feeling back in control and within your own rights.

Can you trust him totally at the front door? If you can then you will be able to deal with your fear and face it, but you have to take the support (that you give yourself in making it a trustworthy place in order to do this - have I written that in a way that makes sense, I'm not sure?). IOW - if you have made it safe, to your satisfaction, you are supporting yourself, and it will enable you to move on to facing your fear, safely.

take care xx

Leclerc hope you manage to stay strong for handover tonight - it must be so so hard having to deal with his continued FWittery! Your email would be good - if you state things so clearly at least he can't say he didn't know or didn't understand.

I have the keys to my new house in my hand Not a stick of furniture to go in said house, but if he goes nuts between now and this weekend I will go and camp out there anyway! He's being OK ATM. Mostly blanking me, but when he does speak he is calm and polite. He blames me for leaving him I think. I have no idea how he feels. I want to be happy that I am free, but I just have this overwhelming sadness about the way things have turned out.

Email suggestion: All future collections/drop off will be done outside the front door. These must be done respectfully and without discussions. If this is not manageable I will review arrangements again.

don't worry about how he'll receive this just make sure this is a safe proposal. x

Hard when you are still there Nora and it all is so new and strange/empty.

Hi leclerc just to say that it takes a lot to actually believe yourself when you have been so conditioned to making allowances for him. He, like my FW, is super entitled and has a lot of "social credibility" to boost himself. He is on an abusers course...where he may learn and practice more subtle forms of the art of crossing boundaries.
It is hard to make others believe help people to understand the danger that he poses and the lack of boundary recognition that he has. You need to trust yourself and not worry about appearing unreasonable to outsiders (note to self to do same!).

As and when and if you make your decision about divorcing the path you took will be well reasoned and reasonable, because they are, because you are.

Nora, it is sad, you will feel sad, that's ok. You are giving up on a vain hope that he'll be the man/father/human being you needed to be.

Feel it, think about it and when you can, let it all go. You can't do anything about it, you never could.

Youy've finally made the only decision you could, to save yourself and your DC from a life of damage, harm and misery.

You've potentially stopped them from being stately homers of the future, perhaps even stopped them from having abusive relationships too.

You're doing the right thing, when you're free, in a few more days, you'll soon see.

Hi all. Posting here as am struggling still .. 1 month after leaving, see previous post!

I'm sorry to read of everyone else's experiences; past, present, continual...

I just wanted to check in to save my sanity and hopefully you can tell me I have done the right thing over and over, and to get me through the ups and downs!

I am doing lots of soul searching and have decided to join this group and face my problems

Chaos, love, it's so very new, so frightening and raw.

Of course you've done the right thing! You have hope in your life, you have the possibility of change, of healing. You couldn't have that if you were still with ex.

Remind yourself why you left. Remember the last strawn, the truth, hold onto it, it'll never let you down.

Tiggy, what's going on? What issues are you having? Can we help?

hissy I know it's the truth that sets us free, I feel like such a prisoner and no one in RL can come close to understanding why I have this bond to someone who did that to me.

Occasionally I will see him at work. Work together. Lived together. We're together and I feel I have no home (back with parents), my work is over, I have associations everywhere and awful dreams (PTSD , I think) .. I feel I've had the rug beneath me pulled and I don't know myself.

Sweety, I felt terrified for weeks, and my ex was back in hell on earth Egypt. I had bad dreams, terrible, terrible dreams.

I changed my room around, moved the bed, bought new duvet covers, and they stopped.

If you've tried this, and if it goes on for another month say, perhaps chat it over with your GP? It will get better.

In process of buying new duvets, funny you say that!

I've been going over the truth, it will never let you down from what you said. So true. I'm worried people at work, friends don't believe me. They believe a manipulator. But I know the truth. And in te, the truth always prevails, one way or another

*time

The truth and freedom. Two things that can never be taken from us.

Even at the height of my internment, my total isolation from the human race, I could still think. He never took that from me.

When I saw the truth, it was like a bolt of lightning hit me. Game changing stuff. All you have to do is keep the truth in your head, remember what really happened.

Trust life. It'll make it all up to you in the end.

I'm not in an abussive relationship now but the effects are still with me 5 years on so i guess i'm trying to work through whats happened and put it all behind me. Although the reason i was with this horrid man, i'm coming to realise, was because my father is also very emotionally abussive and draining. So i gues my current abusive relationship is with my father. I have a lot to get my head around in order to sort myself out but i'm taking steps in the right direction.

Well done Tiggy, for taking the step you took today.

I know that if you don't face this stuff, it never heals, it never goes away.

Most of us have been abused, because of our parents/upbringing. Tbh, that is the bit that hurts the most. But it does reinforce the truth that the abuse wasb't our fault, and never was.

Don't give up on yourself tiggy, you are worth sorting all this out for, once you've made someheadway, you won't believe the trAnsormation in your life.

Be brave, be uncompromising, you're worth it and more.

Keep going Leclerc, it'll be OK. Try staying off the wine for a week, and see how the citalopram works for you. Give it a chance.

Rescue remedy might help, and it takes like brandy/whiskey.

Good luck at the FP, hope it goes well!

Tastes, not takes

Welcome tiggy

Sorry leclerc that he is such a lowlife piece of shit to pull these stunts. I agree that this should be a solicitors letter rather than an email from you, but it costs money of course. Re citalopram - if you drink with it it stops it being effective - so you have a drink, which is a depressant, and it blocks your anti depressant. Bit of a double downer.

Hi leclerc so sorry to hear things are so difficult for you right now

I am so fucking head burgled right now. FW has read my hastily handwritten statement to court which I wrote a day or so after the big blow up. It is entirely truthful but because fw has rewritten history in his own mind to make it acceptable to himself, reading my account in the official docs (delivered by process server today) came as a big shock because he's so self deluded. Cue lots of furious denials, saying he's going to make his own statement against me, he's written numbers against each para of my scribbled statement (because judge wanted more info, I did it in a few mins standing at a desk in court, but it is TRUE.

I am feeling out-fwerted and spag headed And I am back in family home (but have made fw move downstairs while kids and I live upstairs, so like separate flats) because permanent flat fell through re financials and so I have to wait it out till we can sell our old home (currently rented out). But still free mentally but terrified of what fw is going to do. He found out I am on ADs (doc prescribed since serious fwittery) and has told me he will use my taking of "mind altering drugs" against me, plus my "fragile mental state" (bollocks obviously) but scary nonetheless. Help!

And now I can hear lots of movement downstairs, feeling very nervous....

leclerk alcohol and citalopram not a great combination ...increases chances and severity of side effects and decreases the effectiveness of the antidepressive bit . The good news is that CHOCOLATE is completely safe .
PS keeping him at the front door was progress...next time the doorstep!

tiggy..."stately homes" might also have some good links for your primary source of abuse (Dad) but you are most welcome here.

breathe re flat but you will get there. Keep on going.

I'm feeling pretty desperate. But on the upside, the fact that things are really out in the open is good news. No longer can I hide behind "normality" because the cat is well and truly out of the bag. I keep quoting to myself - how to eat an elephant - one bite at a time.... I WILL get there, I am so much further down the line.

Yes, hold onto that feeling of HOPE it will carry you through the rubbish. Living a real life has much to commend it...and you can be glad not to stick the pretend smug married face on anymore!!

Keep a large heavy object by the door....it will give you peace of mind!

But will his incredible skills of manipulation end up with ( my darkest fears coming out now) him taking kids and getting me painted as loon who is incapable of looking after them? Naturally I am sane and he's an ea mind warper, but I am feeling frightened.

Funnily enough, if my FW and others I have known are anything to go by the desperation and the lack of us covering for them usually results in them looking like the loons and everyone else going......however, it takes a bit of faith to believe it when you are still within hearing distance of the twat himself.

Plough a straight course, breathe and "don't let the FW grind you down"

Thank you fool as usual this thread is my sanity saver.

Lock door, batten hatches, heavy sharp objects against doors, everything you have to do to feel safe and sleep Fly. Don't let the DC out of your sight (extremely hard sharing the house!), but keep them busy with lovely paint daubing and making mess upstairs with you (or out) with you.

I couldn't believe how much my FW showed his true colours to the world finally after I completely stepped back and let him get on with it (although that was also me manipulating him and making him 'lose the plot' so that people would witness it - I can't believe I use to believe all this crap and I really did!).

The only reason you are on ADs is to help you cope living with an abuser! Please don't forget that. I've heard everyone in this situation struggling to stay sane in the face of it all, and many talking of ADs. WA would have stats on that, but I'd say its pretty par for the course.

Not surprised you're scared. buy lots more locks tomorrow! and hope the house sells quick.. thinking of you feeling scared.. take care ((((hugs))))

This too shall pass <chants hopefully>

Thanks for support lovely thread mates

Hang on in there brave breathe. Hope you can rest x

Oh Fly you poor love, thinking of you and sending massive hugs. Are you able to lock the doors upstairs so he can't invade your space? Re ADs etc, FWs will try everything to get at us. Can you go to see your GP about it and the history of panic attacks and ask them if needed could they give a statement stating this is all a direct result of FWs behaviour? He can't push the nutter card then. for you re flat...stay safe lovely lady x

Leclerc great advice from others on the FW situation (*Fi*, Fool etc) What can I add? Umm..ok..here goes...what a FW bastardo bollockhead he is to you, honestly these FWs never cease to amaze me the boundaries they try and push. Can you get a non-molestation order out against him? This is something I'm looking at getting around final escape time, but I need to research it more tbh. Stay sane! You are doing a fab job! You really are. x

Tiggy welcome! My dad was/still slightly is emotionally abusive so you are amongst friends on this thread who know exactly how you are feeling. Stay with us, we are here for you.

Waving at all others, sorry only read snipets of thread as FW been around recently so difficult to post/read properly.

In other news....FWs MIL had her 'chat' with him today, let's just say as I'd predicted it went down like a double decker shit sandwich. I stayed upstairs during her visit, heard her leave...cue lots of banging/smashing stuff around in kitchen...nasty texts being sent upstairs to me about what am I doing behind his back with his mother ganging up on him etc etc. I ignored and let him calm and then came down with poker face on, pretending I had no clue what or why she would say things like that to him. Seems to have worked but he then spent the rest of the day/night trying his best FWerty skills to pick a row with me, really pushing my pressure points but I just ignored and kept quiet. He was and still is very angry with her but ill be fecked if I'm going to take the brunt of it for her and her little fecking 'chat' so poker face still on, pleading innocence. Why do people in RL try and "fix" things they have no clue about or would never understand? I too have moments of doubting myself, am I overreacting etc etc. Then I get flashbacks of certain incidents and how I would think if that was happening to my DD when she is an adult and it makes my blood boil and keeps me going to get away from this big bully.

This mornings smooth dawn run to the storage place went more like...wake up late...rush to get us washed,dressed, breakfasts etc sorted...DD to nursery...cue DD meltdown at nursery ...20mins later leave nursery...drive like madwoman to storage..drop off boxes/bags...rally back home...bullshit to FW that there were massive traffic jams...phew..just about got away with it but not going to risk it again tomorrow, will have to wait until he is working to do my storage drop offs. And not telling him about DDs meltdown as that of course will be my fault.

Catch up again tomorrow hopefully, FW off again so more poker facing etc. Hugs to all xx

Ps-Leclerc & Pony I know how you feel about the other man thing...even though I'm not going to go there but wish I could DOldFlame makes me smile..a lot. Proof that there is nice normal ones out there and hope...many years from now when my life is rebuilt and DC stable...that hope to find love again..normal love..happy love...that doesn't come with any eggshells! x

keep your number, block his calls Leclec ? I think ignoring him at the doorstep is better than explaining your reasons for anything, they are none of his business. Its your life, ignore, you owe him no explanations, he sees his kids, he cannot be more involved in your/their lives because he is a FW, he had years of opportunities, most recently was inside your house uninvited. 'I've sorted it' is sufficient, you will only be giving him 'leads' like the salesman at the door, hooks to engage you in futher conversation manipulate you into feeling bad, awkward

Maggie so good to hear you made it through your last dawn raid by the skin of your teeth well done, gonna call you gagga, as you have better poker face than her!

only give him the new number, having blocked him from the other one. I did this with email, and warned him about calling /texting, that I would block if contact made about anything other than contact arrangements.

fly - two steps forward, one step back... You're still making progress, lovely.

Maggie - excellent poker facing!

Can someone help me out? I feel I've been distanced from real life and normal people for so long that I've lost touch with what's reasonable and what isn't. If I'm a single mum come September <hopeful>, is it reasonable to stay at home and live on benefits for a year until dd3 goes into reception? I've worked so hard doing all the night shifts, lie-ins once in a blue moon, and so on for the past 9 years since dd1 was born, and am finally getting a bit of time to myself during the day this year (six hours a week now, which already feels a lot). Next year, I would have 2.5 days to myself each week if I weren't working. Maybe that's why FW's putting the pressure on me to go back to work (having been annoyed at any hint of my relaxing during the day), but when I just thought of putting off a return to work for a year, I was rather with myself at the audacity of it! Would it make me into a sponger, do you think?!

Charlotte...yes it is reasonable to live on benefits until you child goes to school: that is why the benefit is there, to allow you to parent your young child.

If you are wise you will use the time and the space that this gives you to improve your employability as well as preparing your LO for school.

Thanks, fool, that fills me with hope! Off to look into the financial implications...

here here Fool you and your DC have some quality time to be together and have a more normal life. Take it and enjoy it, you deserve. I hope finances permit reasonable lifestyle during that with solicitors / csa fleecing the bastard blind

It turns out, I absolutely believe all the things he's ever said about me so much so that to actually say said things brings overwhelming humiliation and shame [crying] and pain!- why isn't there one for crying, there should be one for crying. I have started right back at the beginning, with all the structures I'd built to survive knocked away (at WA freedom) and can't bear listening to the voices of hurt coming from RL ladies who are speaking so boldly and bravely about their experiences, because inevitably some of what they say is the same for me, still! The thoughts have so dominated the beliefs in my life.

and to top it all, missed distress calls from DD1 over the issues that she finally revealed to me this week. Turned phone on to discover distress texts to call her at school .

So after being a gibbering wreck the entire time, I have to speak to the school about DD meltdown through my heavy cold

Please hold my hands ladies

charlotte y r so nbu its very exciting, good luck for your plans for september.

thinking of all of you going through this. been tired and emotional lately.

just noticed the first bit of that didn't make sense:

here here Fool - you and your DC have some quality time to be together and have a more normal life charlotte. Take it and enjoy it, you deserve. I hope finances permit reasonable lifestyle during that with solicitors / csa fleecing the bastard blind

I am especially trying to challenge that I will 'die alone of cancer'

ok let's get all the comments about how we lack a future (ok that would probably be too much), or at least some of them, out there.
And laugh at them for the pathetic bullying they are. To the future

I will start:
It did not matter what he did to me because I was such a fuck up I would never have had a future anyway.
Well ... poo to that load of bollocks, for a start!
Any advance?
The future here we come

actually dying alone of cancer although shocking to hear, is easier to deal with than the others ......

put them out here, Fi where they will wither in the light for the total crap they are.

thank you arth its the more personal traits that were picked on that are unmentionable, because I am all those awful things he said I am, my reason tells me this is rubbish, still I believe it to be true.

The bit thats stands out for me in your comment was 'because I was such a fuck up', the rest I can dismiss for the complete bollocks it is and easy to see through somehow. Its the bit where he says I am a fuck up, I am..... that is so hard to disbelieve, i've just realised.

I want to, but it just makes me cry arth

I hear all these brave ladies saying similar stuff that has been levelled at them that they've knocked back, resisted, and chucked out. These seem to be stuck like glue!! right at my core

I believed EVERYTHING really

Hey Fi, you ok? Is DD ok?

Leclerc, could you think up a stock answer to give him if he asks nosy questions about arrangements/your life? Like 'Oh it's fine, I've sorted it.' (Or something better than that...) He's catching you unawares deliberately be asking you stuff straight out that you wouldn't otherwise be telling him.

Breathe - am so, so sorry to hear your flat fell through. I hate the thought of you being back in the house with him after all this, I'm worried for you. Is there any way to get him out with an injunction?

Charlotte - you will not be 'sponging' in that situation, and don't let FW suggest that you would be. You'll have been through the mill at that point, you need to give yourself space and time to gather yourself. It would be entirely the wrong time to devote energy to job-hunting.

Maggie - as always, stay safe. Wish MIL hadn't, but she has now. Lawks. Be ready for anything, you deserve so much more from life than this non-existence, lovely.

sorry, no, probably not really, and not been able to reach DD only managed to get the school.

the huge difference being, they spoke! I couldn't trust myself to speak even, I sat, struck dum, throughout the whole thing. Wonder how to go back if I cannot share any of this stuff, and just sit in pain.

Will be another 3 qtr hr ish b4 I can call DD

Fi huge hug for you x

Charlotte I am in same boat re benefits, I have 2 little ones under 4 yrs old. Never been on benefits in my life, always grafted so hard. I was so ashamed to be going down that route of sponging as I seen it too (prob as FW calls it that alkl the time) I spoke with Dfriend about it and she put my mind at ease, we have worked all our lives and benefits are there for us when we need it, we are not going to claim them because we are lazy spongers but because we have to as a last resort to rebuild our lives and we have paid enough into the system, time to get something back. She put my mind at rest but still feel that shame you know? Anyway, give Gingerbread a call, they are great with stuff like that and were able to give me a list/amount of money I would be able to claim and how to go about it.

Back later everyone....FW here today

15 years....15 years and today I get flowers bloody FW....

just had to get that out of my system...in order to receive flowers you have to present with a divorce petition.....argh

apparently he loves me and is devoted to the ground I walk on.

but a sorry or admission of wrong doing...nah

meh....

Sounds familiar fool. Today I have been told he will think of me when he listens to 'Beautiful' by Gordon Lightfoot, but despite numerous pleas for me to come home, I haven't had an actual apology.

My solicitor has heard from his and has a couple of things to redraft, but hopefully we are well underway. Cue FW saying theatrically, " So we could be divorced in a few weeks then, done and dusted!" followed by more tantrums over me having the audacity to ask him to pay the childminder. Demands to know how much state help I am getting. Have told him it's none of his concern.
I think the dc are okay. They, and consequently I, are seeing a lot of him and it is mainly amicable. I don't know whether a psychologist would say we are doing well as they are seeing us not at each other's throats, but I know there will be issues in the future at whatever point I meet someone else with dd.

leclerc, glad you are getting support from the church and your dm. Good on you for standing firm with FW.
Fi, how did you get on when you spoke to dd?
Fly I must have missed your post r.e the flat. Hope another one comes up. Can you get a court order to get FW out?
Maggie hope you are managing to hold your own amid all the FW behaviour.

in order to receive flowers you have to present with a divorce petition Probably inappropriate to laugh, but that is really very funny, fool.

fi, so sorry you're getting such an onslaught at the moment. Those things that hurt so much you can't mention them to anyone - that's ok. My idea (it may be a crazy one) is to write them down. As many as you can bear to. Then for each one, write a positive answer that you wish you could believe. As often as you can, say the positive thing to yourself and try to ignore the cynical, hate-filled retorts that come into your brain.

Well, something like that helped my mum out of ME (whenever she caught herself thinking something negative about her condition, she had to say "STOP", turn so that she physically had a new perspective, and say some positive thing instead). It all sounds a bit wacky, but you have absorbed HIS ideas just by hearing them often enough, so it ought to be possible the other way round, too...

Oh, and Maggie, the thing which is weird is that the state is actually being more supportive than my FW ever has been. The state is in effect saying, "Stay at home, it's the best thing for your dcs." (Whereas FW says, "Go to work, you're doing less than I am and I'm jealous.")

YY to jealousy charlotte. I used to dread being off for the summer holidays as he used to get so arsey if it'd been warm and sunny and we'd gasp been out and had fun!

The dc and I, I mean, if he'd been at work all day. Woe betide me if it'd been a 13hr shift for him.

Well, goodness, Matchsticks, more fool us for thinking they might want something nice for us, eh? We expect them to love us or something?! Preposterous!

I know! I'd often go out during the day and not even tell him as it wasn't worth the hassle I'd get. My friends used to be very about it, but didn't know exactly the grief I'd get for having been 'gadding about'.

YY, and then I'd be told by FW that it's very "strange" how I don't communicate more about day-to-day life? With an implication that it's my own inadequate social skills that are to blame...

Not quite sure why there's a question mark there? Perhaps I'm turning into one of those people who always end a sentence with an upward inflection? D'you get what I'm sayin'?

(May have watched too much Miranda recently!)

Any Miranda is too much!

Hi ladies, I have not been on for a few days but wanted to see if you were all ok. I took a deep breath and sorted some things (as much as is possible) tried to focus on other positive things too and feel exhausted now lol but at least its a better exhausted than the anxiety one.
Sorry to hear about the flat matchsticks
Fi I really like charlottes idea of writting them down. I had a diary and I am glad as now FW is back and telling lies I can confirm to myself (as the trying to make me look mad continues) that he did say that and it says how I felt too. The writting the positive thing down too is even better - I didn't do that. But with more strength now I do see them as less hurtful now and I use that as a sign that ok I am still damaged and hurt with the new stuff but the old stuff just seems more ridiculous, I think that is a good sign - well I hope it is.

Matchsticks

Uggghh FW central here tonight...am safe...but so bored of his constent shite now...back later

Rubbish, £2 forecourt flowers...if anyone else had sent them I'd be "well it's the thought that counts"...in his case...it's the thought that counts, nearly none and definitely too little too late, ...I wonder what he should have brought....shackles, ball and chain?

Stay safe and stay strong lovely ladies.
Night all

Fi Just read what you said above about believing the shite these FW's come up with.
Their pronouncements get wilder and wilder as they get more desperate.
So - here - is our answer to all those FWs.
Volume on max (well maybe earphones at this time and full volume tomorrow morning :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=KihIzAavHlg

Thanks to everyone for kind words

Mags thanks for support, I will get statement from everyone I can – gp, boss, etc to show how sane and together I am despite the constant cruelty and undermining over the years. So sorry to hear about effect of mil on your situation. Well done for being master of the poker face – brave lady – it shouldn’t be bloody necessary but miserably it is and you are doing so well. The storage run sounds quite james Bond

leclerc - oooh I likee your mantra of “do one, knob head”. I will chant this to myself whilst smiling strategically as I sit this out. Upstairs surprisingly peaceful – am really glad I withstood the storm of demanding my space. Also glad I am here because he was sucking the dcs into his mind and I needed to be here to put a stop to that.

Charlotte thank you for encouragement. FW threatened me re my court statement – told me unless I withdrew what I wrote and said it was made under “high emotional distress” and was not true, he would “start a dirty war” that I would regret, would brand me incapable with kids, would fight me tooth and nail. Oddly, while upsetting, this has proved more helpful than his soulful declarations of love and wishes to make it work through his regret and apologies for treating me badly for years (all stemming from his “frustration” though, so pretty much my fault still ) Ahhhhhhhhhhh and breathe and score the fw bingo.

fi hand holding given with love and support xxxxxxx you are a lovely person and WE (on the thread – intelligent ladies one and all) SAY SO – may I suggest you chant that to yourself every time you have a catastrophic thought my lovely.

pony thanks lovely lady

charlotte I like the idea of “stop” and physically turning to get new perspective – though to hear about your mum’s ME.

Ahh hugs Fly glad you are doing ok, you are strong and can get through this x

Am awake on my shite sofa again! But just had to say thanks to arth for that you tube clip!!!! I just burst out laughing!! Loving the vintage bbc1 footage at the start too!!! we all defo need to make an album! We could start selling it on i-tunes!! Could maybe fund a FW survivors RL commune piss up gathering?!!

Back to my sofa snoozing then...night ladies..hope friday is ok for all

Just quickly popping on to say it isn't me who lost the flat. Someone mixed me up with someone else up thread.

My birthday today, seeing fw to collect dd later, having picked up ds on my way home, so will end up in there for half an he or dd will want to leave immediately, ds not having seen fw. sigh

<<delurks>>>

Happy birthday MatchsticksForMtEyes

Hope you have a relatively peaceful and minimal contact with FW day [wish there was a chocolate emotion thingy]

Happy Birthday, Matchsticks! (for later, of course

I would tell him handovers outside, but not mention the bag. He'll know you know anyway, so don't rise to it.

Yes we make our own decisions, not all of them are right, but we can deal with that ourselves too.

Leclerc Agree wholeheartedly with Silver
My DD2, a bit older than yours, also went through a period of looking at my emails.
I left them all open and told her I had nothing to hide and she could read them all. In fact, I would like her too because she could know all about me. Put her right off , and she hasn't looked since!
Different if you feel she might be under pressure to report back to FW, though
And here's to making choices - right ones, wrong ones, wacky ones ... all ours!
un ashamed plug for my song for the day.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KihIzAavHlg

Good morning, brave [uber intelligent] ladies of the thread, or (LLoTT - lovely ladies of the thread - new affirming group collective name).

Charlotte yyy, what a brilliant thing (so sorry about your DM, she is getting access to some good stuff though - stuff that pulled a friend of mine out from a life of wipeout - she would only manage to get up barely once a day - and is now back teaching music full time - and more besides - I will find out a link foryou if you think she might be interestd in alook?) but the stop, works, it so does (not in an irish 'so it does' way, but yeah that too), and I thank you for reminding me of one of my own valluable tools (all of which sometimes disappear completley down the pan, when I'm in a mire! -pans and mires blah blah) thank you.

in that vein, I have something here that I found hilarious yesterday, sent by a friend to cheer me... its a bit of a shocker, but it really got my sense of humour and really had me Lol'ing loads.

You'll love it: http://youtu.be/BYLMTvxOaeE (I don't know how to do the proper link thingy and still to close to wobbly to go look.

I loved the hugs and thoughts and words of support, thank you all; I couldn't look at anything more yesterday as it would just set me off again and had to load myself off to bed after coming to a calm place with DD to help her face another day.

I have two bigs issues with yesterdays experience (I realised), feeling trapped (and terrified of that because of the closed door policy - I will ask about that next time, but I cannot be trapped, ever again, that was huge and I really hadn't realised until being shut in that room), and huge fear of men (I was really scared that a man may be allowed in - logically I know the reasons and I can't go into the 'man' in this situation, other than to say WA do encourage those involved with DV to come to sessions for their education, like police to learn how to support when it comes up in their work). But it threw me completely, again I realised how scared I am of 'men'. When asked I nodded agreement (complied!). However, I am glad I am aware now and can think about those things more as I will go back, and maybe actually utter a sound!

lovely gentle words Fly thank you ((hug)) , and your lovely link arth I really appreciated your idea too. I did notice you were getting vile threats from FW match and also noted how you just took them as threats and, carried on regardless! How empowering

I have been running around, just getting behind, so no chance to read others threads right now sorry. I hope you are all keeping the faith and holding strong, feeling supported. taking heart here and hoping you all too. xx

Also, remember that DD2 is looking because she is scared, not because she wants to spy. The only way to deal with fear is openness

yy arth to: And here's to making choices - right ones, wrong ones, wacky ones ... all ours!

and all of us being 'I am what I am - need no pretence, need no excuses'

Happy Birthday Match have a lovely day ignoring FW! (and 'ittery') [chocs] or [cake]

and many get well wishes for poorly dd leclerc strength for nursing the poorly to you too. x

at the reporting back leclerc That is shit .
I suppose what I was saying is that I never put parental controls on the TV or on the computer (I don't have boys, who might need different parenting). The girls leave their facebook pages open, and their passwords are saved on the computer, but they expect me not to look. They ask me before posting photos (especially in the summer when everyone wears fewer clothes!), but, obviously, I am not friends with them I think we all would think that weird.
However, FW is a technophobe and has no interest in finding out anything about us, at all - except in making sure that the only one who spends money is him and only on himself.
Sorry this has got garbled. I suppose I am trying to say that the underlying problem is trust and the looking and the reporting, not what she is looking at.
I don't suppose you have anything to hide, so it is another case of bounderies.
Does that make any sense, at all?

Fi hope you are feeling better.
I have posted before that I recognized every foul name and insult FW threw at me for the shite it was when he said that I would never amount to anything because I was eaten up with envy because I had 'only' gone to a comprehensive school . It cracked me up.
Although I have realized, in retrospect, that it was aimed at undermining me with the children: mum's a common thicko being the subscript .
I care enough about the kids to knock that on the head PDQ.

I do feel better arth thank you. I do feel better because I know I have hit the bedrock of everything that has been going on for me for all these years and that knowledge empowers me to finally get a handle on it all. I do feel very shaken tho, and delicate from yesterday's quakes. It is good, I know that. it is facing it, finally, and I will face it again next week to whatever degree I can cope with. I know tho that I will have to come to terms with those two major 'threats' in order to diminish them - I'm smiling to myself about the link I badly posted, and hearing it played back, it was so great to LOL to. The friend that sent it is a counsellor!

and, yy, absolutely the complete crap that is laughable. Sadly realising that I have spent many years believing it all deep down so that I can't say who I am (or absolutely am not the things I was called because of the humiliation and shame I carry -carried?). I am feeling more cross that FW managed to convince me of any of his BS. FWm & FWf did the same, so my identity was more about their opinions than mine, i get that.

It is very encouraging the contempt with which you treat his rubbish, and others here, its all very healthy and I hope very much to be towing that line (congruently) myself soon. thank you. xx

poor DD2 leclerc Can I hate your FW for you for creating this situation?

I have snooped, and hated it, Leclerc but knew there was terrible stuff going onthat was tearing apart the souls I explained that a condition of fb is that I will check in from time to time (the FW family have links and say inappropriate stuff - whch I don't knock off, but try to advise to manage - but would step in if it goes too far). and I did find an abusive 'friend' trying to link who was vaguely known, when I checked out the fb page there was hate speak, and porn, and women hate speak, on-line arguments that included the worst language and threats of * to each others mothers. I showed it and discussed it then reported and blocked it.

there were also very inappropriate [crying, guilt tripping] phones calls from FW, which I jumped on and told him I would bar his number if there were any more and starting monitoring texts, which I am open about doing from time to time if I suspect anything underhand going on.

I also very very very bad mummy pried into diary, to try to get an understanding of what was going on, without directly involving DC, which was a huge eye opener and the catalyst to change everything, as I was able to give support in the right areas, ask for help as to how to deal with stuff to help DC, and stuff got managed and resolved by helping the DC resolve it.

If I see stuff, I don't get involved, I am just aware and keep an eye to how it is being managed. I do think they have to see FW for who he is and not through my eyes, but learn strategies for any bad feeling as a result. I am stepping back from all these things now. Dc show me, point out stuff on fb anyway which we share a laugh from, and I monitor [flesh on] photos, restricting cameras in bedrooms for s/overs etc. Now that contact has settled into a routine its calmed down he's never called anyway even though the offers been there, only when he's not getting what he wants and he weedles his guilt trips - 'missing you sooo much' after he stopped all contact, etc. sad and pathetic.

Well that was too long, good luck. I'm off to stats - oh! tired already! xx

I am going to leave my stuff open too, based on words above, but I have said in the past that everyone must respect each others' privacy and personal things. From hearing secrets from friends, to reading others' private things, or overhearing conversatons and getting the wrong end of the stick I am trust to not share secrets given to me and I expect my private life to be my own (well as much as you can with DC!) caveat! anything worrying should always be shared!!

The difference is, he is interested in finding out everything he can about me, and I don't want to know about FW.

Fi and leclerc, it is horrible, horrible to try to teach children to grow up able to distinguish between secrets and lies, which are poison, and bounderies, which are life and health when they have a f***ing FW in front of them, for whom the distintiction has no meaning - except that what is his is his and what is everyone else's is his, too.

I think thats beautiful Leclerc [the daffs developing photographically]

arth thank you, another reason to laugh today except that what is his is his and what is everyone else's is his, too.

Today whilst Leclerc is immersed in her flower therapy (if I may call it that?), I am engrossed in laughing therapy (hence the clip I shared earlier).

If you are feeling low, weary, depressed or just fancy a giggle anyway (hopefully that covers everybody!), have a look at this:
give in to it

<rushes back in to clarify> hasten to add leclerc none of DC friends are like this!!!

As is the nature of Farcebook, this was a 'friend of a friend' who aren't really friends thing There are a load of kids all linked in previous schools, and someone at the school was linked to this person who is busy adding friends trying to contact strangers to look like has more 'real friends' than everyone else and sent an invitation through, which I noticed as unfamiliar person, so checked it out, and horrified!

I had to think long and hard about my reasons, to ensure that I was doing everything to protect (whilst also protecting important privacy) as these boundaries are new to me too.

I've not been able to get back to this thread sadly, damned RL getting in the way again.. Sick DS, a joint sleepover with my mum, all good, but no time to MN.

LeClerc, wrt the new number, I would change your number on the kids phones if you think they are likely to tell FW.

You are doing this for a reason, to get yourself some headspace. You have a right to it and no-one has the right to stop that.

What have you told your DC btw? are you telling them the appropriate truth? If you are not, then you will be painted the villain by FW and they will have no defence to it and will believe him.

I would sit all your DC down and say to them that you and FW are split, because he was mean to you and that in the end, when you live with mean people, it hurts everyone, makes them sad, especially children. Tell them that they are safe with him, but that he uses words and actions to his own advantage and often this is not good for others.

Remind them that you are always there for them, and that if they are unsure of anything, to come and ask you and you will always tell them the truth.

Then if they are on board, tell them that you are going to get a new number that he won't have, so that he can't hurt you anymore.

I found the truth not only set me free, it reduced the risk of being the one that broke the family up too. I was buggered if I went through all that I did, just for DS to think that it was me that pushed his 'perfect dad' away. I didn't want him growing up to think his dad was in any way a role model.

LeClerc, have you discussed this in your FP session? that's a great place to get ideas and approaches from too.

LeClerc, my Ex told me that he had taken copies of all my emails ever written and would harangue me for hours over the supposed contents.

these people have no right to do this, and this breach of your confidentiality needs to be stopped definitively. Your DC need to know this, that snooping on anyone is out of order.

apparently its not funny, but boring!

face, bovverd!

leClerc if he is likely to ask why doorstep handover, don't been drawn in. Just say you have decided it's best.

Fi, going to have a look (and a laugh) later, much needed here too.

Leclerc, glad all went well with DD, and well done for tackling it - I put stuff like that off out of fear of it going badly and not knowing how to handle it, but you always get straight onto getting these issues tackled. Am in awe of you (generally , but today on this issue!). You is smashing.

And I know what you mean, I've had a bad couple of days in my head after seeing FW on Wednesday - nowt happened, but I just felt rubbish after it as always. But today I've felt empowered and together - sorted out my outstanding invoices that I've been putting off spotting a theme yet?, sorted out some work that I have to do over the weekend. Felt great.

Then, a text from FW. He's had my solicitor's letter trying to negotiate on his demand that I pay half the mortgage payments. He says the letter is 'unclear' (although to be honest the first part of his text, going on about estate agent fees, doesn't make any sense to me). And then says if we can't reach an agreement before starting to sell the house, it'll 'need' to be 50-50 split (because at the moment he has me over a barrel because he's 'allowing' me to get back my original deposit). He ends by saying I don't want to drag it out, I'm sure you don't either. I replied just saying I'd email him later. (But maybe I should be getting the solicitor to clarify things?)

And, as if by magic, I'm back in stomach-churning, anxious-headedness. But need to sort myself out because I've got several hours' work to get through tonight...

Pony, don't worry about a thing. You can't do anything about any of it anyway, not until Monday.

The pressure he's placing to sort it is more FWery. The mantra to that is 'it'll take as long as it takes'

you could always say that if he doesn 't understand what a letter says, that he could ask his solicitor to explain it to him... But that the letter seemed perfectly clear to you <evil> gaslight the bastard back

Don't allow him to engage you on this. He knows what he's doing.

Well, I nearly got a whole day of being happy on my birthday. Picked up dd to get a card. "To my beautiful wife". All in French on the inside, as is tradition. "The fire of our love has been extinguished, but the memory of your smile will live on in my heart. I will love you til the end of my days"

Thanks for that. Crying on my birthday. Again. Told him if he loved me so much, why had he spent all that time picking me to pieces, finding fault with everything I do, calling me names, shouting at me? Then he was trying to hug me, still no proper apology.
Glad I am going out tomorrow night with my best friends, who actually love me for who I am, not who they want me to be.

Sorry for the 'me' post. I am feeling sorry for myself tonight.

Just checked the links, Fi and Leclerc

Go for it matchsticks, it IS all about you today. No-one else is important, not today.

Today is the last birthday that you put up with this crap. Next year his card will be marked 'retun to sender' and you will be stronger, wiser and happier.

He extinguished the love you had for him. HE did! He doesn't know the meaning of the word love.

Love doesn't hurt, humiliate, lie, tear to shreds, upset, destroy, maim or hobble.

No, love lifts us up, it makes us more than we thought we could be, it makes us float on air, it is the 'home' feeling we've missed all our lives.
Love is great.

Buy the poor illiterate fucker a dictionary. Show him how poor he is that he needs a book to describe what love is, that he's blown it, all by himself. He had you, he had it all, but that he's lost it all, because he was abusive and mean.

Tell him too that the memory of him is seared onto your heart too, but that in time, with therapy, you'll get over all that he's done, and move on to greater and greater things.

(cos you definitely will!)

Matchsticks

You are far too clever for me, Hissy!!! I had already composed an email, but will have to rewrite it now!

That said, I know exactly how this will go. I'll suggest he speak to his solicitor on Monday for clarification. He'll come back, accusing me of delaying and being difficult, and insisting again that if I don't I pay for the full amount of the mortgage payments he'll 'need' to go back to a 50-50 split. (In other words, I would rather do a 50 50 split because I feel it's what I'm entitled to, but if I do that I risk looking like the bad guy, so this way I can still get what I want, and make it was your own fault, I offered generously but she was so difficult and making all sorts of unreasonable demands ) My solicitor was a bit wary about sending the negotiating letter at all, feeling that he was quite likely to retract his 'generous' offer of the non 50-50 split at the merest hint of anything from me. So I do want to tread carefully with it, I don't want him retracting - I will agree to his demands for mortgage payment if he really wont go any lower.

Happy birthday Matchsticks. Enjoy your night out tomorrow (you and Bertie both) - you deserve it and I know your friends will make you feel better.

Eat cake and toast yourself (with , I mean, not as in... well, you know). You are doing brilliant to see so much of his FWittery now. You will get stronger and stronger.

Can you prove the deposit you are owed? Then put a charge on the property! Means you get paid out THEN the equity gest divided.

Say nothing, part of negotiation is silence. You've sent him a letter, he can accept or not.

Regardless of the discussion, he'll rescind on any agreement just to piss you off, so register a charge and tell him to stfu, put the house on the markeyt and sell it.

Unfortunately not, Hissy. Because we are married (allbeit for just over 10 months before I left), the fact that I put in a much larger deposit than him doesn't matter. Technically, he is 'entitled' legally to claim 50-50, which would net him £15k for an abusive 10 months of marriage. He's using the fact that he's 'allowing' me to get my original deposit back. I don't want him to pay him the mortgage money, but I wont cut off my own nose to spite my face, if there's a chance of getting my money back.

But as soon as the divorce if finalised I'll be changing DS2's name to my own surname, which I had decided I wouldn't do if he played fair

Here's what I'm thinking of emailing (since I've now said I'd be emailing him, can't just ignore now...).

I am sorry that you feel the solicitor's letter is unclear. The basics of what is being said is an offer to pay £1,000 towards mortgage fees, instead of the £2,400 that you are asking for. This takes into account that I have already made other payments for various things along the way that cancel out some of the amount you are asking for. I do not want this to drag out either, but feel the best course of action is for you to speak to your own solicitor on Monday for clarification and to let them know whether you accept this offer, and if so we can then move forward without delay. I am also keen to reach an agreement quickly.

Too much? Should I leave out the bit where I try and give clarification (I'm paraphrasing what's in the letter to try and make it clearer) and just tell him to speak to his solicitor? (I suspect he's trying to sort it out manipulate me himself to avoid more solicitor's fees.)

matchsticks giving you a card that might upset you on your birthday is far from love. You get on with enjoying the final hours of your birthday without him! yay! go screw urself FW! upsettin our girl on her burfday!

take care xxx

yes pony its gonna look to be better to lose face on the few mortgage payments for the greater gain of your dep. back.

Pony - sorry, but why can't you ignore - it is not like he is going to go away - unfortunately.
As Hissy says, leave it until Monday.
Go out for the day tomorrow and communicate with FW through hobnailed boots your solicitor when you have proper advice.

Well, partly because I already told him I'd email him tonight about his text so I don't like to promise something then go back on it (because I'm such a wimp I can't even bear to feel his disapproval...), and partly because I will unfortunately see him in less than 12hrs, when he comes to pick up DS2, and I'm sure he'll mention it if I haven't emailed/responded in some way. I just really don't want to piss him off, I'm committed to playing it as low-key as I can until I get agreement signed off on this.

Then I'd like to pretend that it'll be gloves off, but I suspect that the general effect of me taking off my gloves will be to waft a slightly fusty odour about the place, rather than instilling any real fear in him!!!!

Pony your email is very reasonable but he is not, so will take no notice at all. I would stick with your solicitor. I would imagine your solicitor would advice against using them and then doing things direct as well as it would get confusing. It really doesn't matter if you said you would contact him or not. You don't have to please him, he doesn't want to please you. He enjoys feeling like he is making you contact him, it feeds him. I did so much of this, it got me nowhere apart from worse off.
And I agree with what hissy said - Regardless of the discussion, he'll rescind on any agreement just to piss you off, so register a charge and tell him to stfu, put the house on the market and sell it.

Hi Pony don't communicate with FW over these legal matters or atall it may jeopardise your situation if 'you mention something that you later rely on could be used against you in court!' well something like that. Take legal advice. There is no need for him to have an answer 'right now'.

You're right, you're all right. SO right! no matter how reasonable I try to be, it'll get turned around or thrown in my face (or used against me...). Thanks for talking me through it and reminding me he's a FW!

Right, have been working all evening (honestly! I have!) so am off to bed now. Night all. Yawn.

Hi, have recently split from an ex who was a but ea for the last time. he just cannot see that he has issues but was wondering if any of the other behaviours he had ring any bells with others on here:

He cannot get on with things. endlessly procrastinating over really important things( and then blaming me)

Continually flipping from one extreme and another like no exercise for month then 3 hours a day in the gym everyday or training for a marathon.

Gives up smoking and decides to give up everything else as well and goes on a diet.
Goes back on fags eats until he is bursting out if his clothes and does no exercise at all.
This is almost an annual event.

Spending 3 months playing farmville non stop.

Obsessing about trivial things like where a pen lid has gone but doing nothing about bits of husband house falling down.

Claiming that he knows people have done things when he cannot possibly know.

Being really really paranoid.

And of course constantly hard done by.
But mostly i was just wondering is the flipping from extreme to another is common. He does not do anything in moderation.

this is very quick as my laptop about to die! Minkembra welcome aboard. sorry to hear your news.

I can't personally that anything jumps out at me from your list, other than he's got strange issues? sorry but others may be able to help.

just to say hello really, and encourage you to keep posting.

night all

pony, you don't answer to fw anymore, and tbh, are you certain about the monetary split after such a short marriage? have you contacted Rights if Women, or whatever they are called?

i feel sure that as men use the gold digger defence to protect their assets upon divorce, surely there must be some avenue open to you.

leave the email until you have proper advice.

if he asks you for it say you wrre busy, but that you'll come back to him when you are ready.

thus telling him that he's not pulling all the strings in your life.

hes nnot that important that you'll waste a friday night composing an email too... cripes, who'd do that... ;)

its ok sweety, this is all part of your recovery, its a phase we all must go through, the truths we all face.

read your Why Does He Do That, understand that it was him all along, that he chose to hurt you all, to keep you in that situation for his own feed.

he did this, you got them out when you could, you saved them and yourself from more of it, you'll be the one that helps them heal, and are giving them the tools so that they never go throughnthis themselves.

good things will come out of all this, you handled it all perfectly.

Oh leClerc that all sounds agonising, but wailing together is absolutely the right thing.

Having finally put the Christmas decorations box away (at least I had taken them down on 12th night) I have unwound the tinsel <shakes self, sprinkling silvery bits everywhere>

Leclerc, just a flying visit for me as DS1 is poorly acting up, but just wanted to send you hugs. You truly are a brilliant mum, the way you dealt with DD2 (and also DD1 later) so calmly and patiently and got through to both of them in the best, most nurturing way. I know what you mean about the cloud, it hangs over me too, and I worry so much for my lovely stepdaughters still being in it without me as a buffer between them and him any more. Sometimes it weighs me down so much I can't get past it, can't sleep, can't do anything but eat, eat, eat my way through it! I don't know have any advice there about that, but just to say - me too. It's a sign that you are a good, caring, empathetic person - where is the cloud of guilt hanging over our FWs? Non existent. Let's ship the lot of them out to FW BB Island, which will be very small (with a palm tree in the middle) and surrounded by sharks a la the cartoons.

Anyway, DS1 is writhing about in pain noisily again because it's been a while since I popped in to see him, so best go and see to him! Onwards, it's a gorgeous day! love to you all. xx

dd2 needed that leclerc she's been holding onto a lot and now she's let it all out because she's felt safe with you, and safe to challenge you so directly and you were honest with her about that, which is strong of you. She needed to unravel a bit and release her pent up wild emotions. Its him screwing with hteir heads, if he keeps emotionally blackmailing them, they cannot take that (poor me, I miss you, I'm better, your mum is keeping this going, she's the nasty one here). When I've heard this going on I've told DC that the parents are here for the children, definitely NOT the other way around. I say, I am an adult and will manage my own emotions, and that it is wrong of adults to give the children their emotions. It is the childs right to look for help with their emotions to adults, and that is what becoming an adult is all about, but unfortunately some adults never really grow up in that way, and if my DC dad makes them feel sad about his emotions they know that is wrong and definitely not anyones fault but his and they are not involved as they are helpless to do anything. It seems to work! for now! what a day for you all. You are holding them all together Leclerc and doing a brilliant job (although its feels far from that!) some bigs hurdles to cross, and maybe again to reassure that everything is solid and predictable and understandable at home with you as you work through these things together.... (((hugs)))

Hope you alll enjoy the lovely weather today

F* all FWs for the f***ing crappy fathers they are.
Ego fodder, that is all their children are to FWs.
Sorry - can't say it to the kids, so had to say it here [embarrassed]
However, it is all smoke and mirrors, and can be dealt with as such.

that should have been

Just had a moment's panic!
By smoke and mirrors, I meant that the reality FWs build is their own fabrication where they are entitled to everything - not that they cannot become dangerous in the real world.
Please everyone, stay safe.

bloody, well, bloody, said arth and here, bloody, here

Your last post is something that all parents should aspire to Leclerc the honesty and acceptance of your part in this (beforehand) and openness to the world and more especiallly your beloved children, is profound and humbling to see [why isn't there a 'tearful emo]

Onwards and upwards leclerc !!! [rousing cheers]

right off to face my FW for his round of FWittery!

one day, soon, you'll look back and you'll see all this was a phase, and you'll all appreciate the strength it taught you all.

i know you'll not see it yet, but if it helps power you through all this emotional mud, know that in some weird way, going through all this has made a better person of me. I've gained more than i lost somehow.

on the other side of this, the truthful side is a true nirvana.

for every step away from those that put you here, there is a loving, caring, super step that is so tangible that you'll feel you'll burst. only the truth, and the belief in yourself, and your decision to get out will lead you there.

when you're right, you're right, nobody can ever take that from you.

leclerc, he thinks you'll crumble without him! what a twat! i hope you laugh like drain when you think of this.

he wants that misery, how sad and insecure is that?!

he has no idea of tge strength you have, he doesn't know you at all!

:-)

Hi,

I have been directed here from a post I started on relationships. I am so confused in my marriage atm. I have been with my H for 9 years, since I was 16, and married 4. We have a 2 year old DD. There a variety of things that I feel are wrong. He says or does something and then tells me he didn't, or I heard it wrong. He is very negative and also looks at the bad things, he also is focused on money. Everything is linked to money in some way. I also have to explain every spend.

He is not very emotionally supportive, and I dread going to him with problems. An example is that I just got my exam marks (I work 2 days and am a full time student) and got straight 2:1's. He comments to me that we should look at my 'failing grades', when I questioned him he said he wasn't meaning it like that, he was meaning as I originally wanted a first, and this was failing that.

Also he has to be involved in everything, if he is upstairs and our DD has a tantrum he will come downstairs to see why and how I am dealing with it.

We never go out and do stuff. And he wants to know the plan for the days he is at home. It is all very structured and no spontinaity (spelling, sorry). We tend to do things to his schedule, and in the evenings do everything together, as if after my uni work I want to read or something he gets huffy that we aren't watching x, y and z. Also I don;t feel I can work on my uni work all night, and that I must stop before bed to spend time with him...

I just feel very trapped and stifled. I would love to be in charge of my own life. I still care for him and love him, but I do feel it's more as a friend. There is no romance or hugging and kissing, and sex is always a quickie. Tbh though if he tried to change that now I would probably hate it.

I find myself dreaming of him leaving, and of my life as being single. I get on so well with other people, and find myself looking at other men.

Also I am on anti-anxiety meds and if I am annoyed at him, or am upset, moody or stressed then the first thing he does is ask if I have had my 'pills'. and every problem he tried to boil down into 1. Also I do most of the housework, and he only really helps if I explicitly ask him to.

Anyway, that was long, so thank you if you read it all. I think he is a good man, but he has problems with knowing how he comes across, and I just am starting to think we are not compatible any more. But I don't want to hurt him...

leclerc when I read your post I see your strength SHINE through - when I don't see my own. I can't really add to the wonderful, correct words of others except to say that DD2 is processing things and you are there to help with that. It is good she is letting it out and it is helping her as hard as it is to see her pain. It is a real step forward. I felt ill for days when my DS has his first real melt down over the return of FW and he was blaming me for not being able to make him go away. Luckily there has not been much else that my DS has had to endure since but depending on what the court says it may/probably will come.
FWs control continues today as I get my latest letter about things and things I have to do - when he has done NOTHING for his DS in all this time is makes me sick but I am trying to just see it as another step to securing my DS's safety and happiness and we would all do anything for that. Off to try and just be `normal' for a bit.

thank you leclerc

tbh I don't know what I would think. It seems to be normal in the circle of people I know. My mum was in an abusive relationship. I only have a couple of friends, and my sister-in-law has issues in her relationship as well...

Hi, I'm sorry, I'm gatecrashing this thread, but I just read TiredConfusedMummy's post, and wanted to respond. You sound like you are describing my husband, especially the bits about it being structured to his schedule, and everything very negative, and micro-managing everything - basically the upshot is that you feel never good enough, because the standards are too high, but then you never have any time to yourself to re-charge your batteries, becuase he won't let you, so it all becomes more and more difficult, like wading through treacle. I'm in the process of initiating a separation, but it is so hard because of the emotional manipulation. Urgh. But anyway, stay strong, stay focused on the uni, keep reading here, and every day you will get clearer in your own mind about what you want and how to achieve it, and not just be an accessory in his life.

Anyway, on the uni grades - straight 2:1's is good! Very few people get firsts, but that is what you aim for and look to improve towards, so sounds like you are doing fine. What year are you in?

Oh and also he is always telling me that he doesn't want to hurt me, that it's me taking it the wrong way, and that if I really feel like this then I should just leave. I know I can be nasty as well, but I am just so confused right now as to what to do.

thank you snowshapes. I am in my third and final year of my degree and have been offered a masters place for September. The wading through treacle and not getting change to recharge is exactly right! If I want to go to bed before our usual, scheduled time, then I am made to feel guilty. Tbh I am considering using the rest of the career development loan in September to sperate. But then I feel guilty for hurting him, for leaving him like everyone else has and wonder if I am making mountains out of mole hills. Oh he also tells me no-one else would put up with my 'shit'...

>>I am in my third and final year of my degree and have been offered a masters place for September<<

Sounds like you are doing just great! Seriously, he knows that once you have a degree, possibly also a Masters, and better chances, you are going to call time on the relationship, that is why he is putting you down and making you doubt yourself.

One of the things I find most helpful from reading on MN is remembering that I am modelling a relationship for my DD, because children learn patterns of behaviour. Yours is only 2, but mine is older, and more aware of what is going on. You mention a pattern of abusive relationships in your family (ditto mine). The thing which has motivated me is that I want my daughter to grow up knowing what freedom to grow is, and being able to grow into her own person. How can I model that if I know I am not being, or allowed to be, my own person?

All the best with your studies. That is your route to a better life. And it sounds like you are doing well there.

and you'll never find anyone as good as him either confused did you know that!? I am shit too, and others won't put up with my 'shit' either - its a loverly way to describe your ladylove isn't it?

Know your own mind, the one that you have so eloquently expressed on here. xx

Thankyou Snow I hate this, I feel so torn in 2. I definitely would not want our DD to ever feel like this, so I suppose in a way that's my answer. I get so far with being ready to leave him, but then I get so scared and upset and I relent. I do feel that I would most likely be fine once I was out the other side of it. There would be so many things I could do that I can't now. I could get a dog, go out, have hobbies, not worry about furthering my education, make decisions, what and do what I want when I want, have a tidy house, feel free, be spontaneous. I know it would be hard as well, but emotionally I think it may slowly start getting better. One thing that struck me was when I told my H that I had an offer for my MSc and a plan for my PHd afterwards, and the first thing he said wasn't congratulations, that brilliant, but instead was 'but what about my PHd'...

Leclerc, pretty much how you've translated it,the truth will set you free, but first it will make you suffer.

Sorry Fairy must have cross posted! I know I can be horrible to him as well, but yes lovely view to have of the person your meant to love...

It's so draining, all the second guessing, fighting, ignoring things, not being me. Struggling with what to do. I am just so scared of making the wrong choice I feel like I'm stuck in a limbo

Confused, have been feeling reading various bits of your post cos it's quite familiar! I struggled with thinking my FW was a good man for a while. I'd say now he's a good man to the outside world, and certainly to himself, but to me? Nah. He's very controlling, isn't he? "We must do this, at this time, otherwise I will make you feel guilty. And you must never leave me as (fake sob) everybody has before." (Whereas in reality, once he finally realises there's no getting you (me) back, he'll get up, dust himself off and head off in search of his next victim - cos there's no depth to his emotional world!!)

That jump into the unknown is bound to be scary, but no wonder you're excited at the thought of what would be there for you the other side. The heady experience of freeeedooommm! Close your eyes and leap - once you've done it, it's done.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! at your FW, Leclerc. Because mine's just the same in that utter utter unbelievable self-centred selfish preoccupation with his own fantastic self - wonderful actor playing the hero in the play of life where everyone else is just a bit part to reflect his wonderfulness. Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!

And breathe.

Hi, all and confused especially. We'rei in similarish boats. have just split up from now ex bf for umpteenth time. this time for good. feel like i have finally woken up and don't know what i was thinking.

I thought he was just a bit messed up. but now i see he is really quite abusive.
I would still say not deliberately. he doesn't have a full emotional deck to play with but that is his problem not mine...or rather it is no ones problem as he won't admit he has one.

Have been reading some if the links from OP. has made sobering and depressing reading.

Realise i have been getting hoovered in the past and doing the whole declaration of independence thing and then resenting the policing thing and he has been accusing me of being controlling.

Have finally realised does not and will never see me as an equal.

Am quite pissed off with self for being such a fool and have realised i am a bit codependent in that i am a fixer and always try to see the good.

Annoyed that i got sucked into so many circular pointless or irrational conversations and that i wasted enought emotional energy.over the years to power a small village.

also annoyed i made such a bad choice for myself and the kids. think i stuck with it for so long because i couldn't bring myself to admit it was a bad choice. All a bit vain on my part really, thinking it couldn't happen to me.

Could tell you a million things my ex did but cannot be bothered even thinking about it.
On the positive side although i am in an uncomfortable place right now at least i am on the road to somewhere else. and i kept my own home and money throughout, my own friends and a wide range of hobbies and interests and best of all i have the kids. :-)

Here's to finally coming out if the FOG.

also annoyed i made such a bad choice for myself and the kids. think i stuck with it for so long because i couldn't bring myself to admit it was a bad choice.

and so say all of us mink because when you are out you look aback and just think "why, why did I think that was ok??"

But you can't see it until the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) has lifted, and he has done enough damage to make us understand that "it's not you it is him" and HE's NEVER GOING TO CHANGE.

confusedmummy you are awesome to have done a degree, had DD, looked after everyone (except possibly you) and to have survived. Now you can work out what happens next in order to thrive!

Welcome newbies, sorry to hear your situations, stay strong, I know its hard.

Leclerc you are an amazing mummy and cope so well with DC, sorry about DDs meltdowns hope things will start to get better.

Waves at everyone else

In other news....I am back down in my black hole that I find it so hard to crawl back out of with a combination of general downright shitty FWerty, MIL asking 20 bloody questions everytime I see her, DD now ill with flu/cold I am just worn out, drained and basically fecked by it all. And if I wasn't feeling bad enough the final nail in the coffin came in spectacular style this evening when DOldflame who had become a really good friend and support over last year or so has just out of the blue defriended me on FB. Feel like someone has punched me in the guts tbh and for once its not FW not sure what went wrong as our last messages to each other were just friendly normal ones

Is he definitely still on fb? Dunno how it works if someone leave as i am a fb avoider (xbf loved it) but i have heard of others who have escaped its clutches...

Yeah he is still on it as far as I can see as we have mutual friends and he is still connected with them so it shows it just couldn't have happened at a worse time if you know what I mean

Oh Maggie, I know how awful that feels, your lifeline in all of this. Any chance to contact him and ask him why (without making a big deal)?

Thanks Pony I was thinking of emailing his hotmail during the week and just casually asking if everything was ok. Its just really strange and out of the blue, he has gone from messaging me, phoning, texting etc to now just cutting me off out of the blue. I know he's not a FW type of man so just don't understand. Makes me believe what FW says to me all the time that i will never have any friends and lose all the ones I do have as I am nasty/evil/mentally unstable etc etc. Maybe I've just been blaming FW all along for my isolation but really it is my fault sorry for the feeling sorry for myself posts everyone thank god I have you ladies, please don't defriend me too!

*Maggie kills the thread!*

Still your friend, Maggie.

So sorry to hear of all that, though - it all mounts up sometimes, doesn't it?

Have just been having a good cry at a rather lovely love story. I'm relieved in a weird kind of way - over Christmas with all the loveliness with the MN Secret Santas, I just felt too detached, like I should've felt something and wasn't. Don't know when I last had a good cry. I know I actually have something worth crying about - the death of my dreams of a happy marriage and all that goes with that - and I know that though it hurts now, there's hope for the future although I don't actually believe that last bit.

Drained now. Off to bed. Suppose you're on the sofa again, Maggie? Is FW going away any time soon?

Thanks Charlotte

FW gone awol again tonight so another night of trying to sleep with one eye open until he gets in and I make sure door locked properly. Even though my escape plan is well under way, I just can't see the wood for the trees. I just don't know how I am going to get through the last few steps, especially the physically leaving bit. I am really hoping he does something majorily FWerty which will give me that excuse to just go. I just see myself struggling with life for ever more with or without FW. I have lost all social skills over the years and don't know how I am ever going to rebuild mine and DCs life alone with little support

Sorry ladies for posts Maggie now takes over thread!

You don't need any excuse, Maggie, as you well know! And about social skills... normal people are often lovely and generous. When FWery in this house has been particularly bad (still mild in general terms, but bad enough), just a smile and normal conversation in a shop amazes me. I could survive for a good few months just on that level of kind contact, I suspect. And quiet, in a house with no FW. I imagine that'll be quite therapeutic, too.

On an unrelated note, I have been reading St Lundy's other brilliant book, "When Dad Hurts Mom." Apart from his odd American spelling, that man can do no wrong in my eyes.

o hey maggie I have strength enough for all tonight having downed a couple of hefty glasses of vino you are none of those things! - you are gorgeous lovely, caring mummy and great friend here and in RL, shut all those things out! If you want to know how to do that, have a look at my link further back, well it will make you laugh at least

We will never ever defriend you! We will be here urging you on to greater things for yourself and your darling babies. We will hang on in there together to the great day of freedom, when you can't even remember all this awfulnesses, (ooops, hic!)

I hope I am helping. I just want you to feel better about the wonderful person that you show yourself to be on here all the time, and the strength that you have in the face of his quite frankly off the scale FWtery. You stay upbeat and positive. You are moving out lovely, and we're all with you hoping tha twill come quickly now. Try not to 2nd guess what could have possibly gone on with your special friend. He might even be feeling sensitive to having you publicly as a friend because of your situation and being careful on your behalf, until you speak to him you won't know. You can bet that he absolutely won't be thinking all those things you said.

I did have new flashback today, which I have to apologise to my dc about tomorrow, and will be very upset I know it. He threw DD1 across the room onto the bed having already dragged her upstairs, at top speed, by the tops of her arms shouting and yellling at the top of his voice in her face and then pinned her down on the bed (I chased him as fast as I could screaming at him to leave her alone, I felt more useless than a vaguely annoying gnat. When he was bent over her in the bed yelling in front of her face I was thumping him as hard as I couldon his bent over back; I'm really not kidding I was giving it every ounce of strength I had to stop him, and nothing would!!!! It was like I wasn't even there. She doesn't really particularly have a handle on this stuff... and.. but... I can't believe I didn't walk out after that. I don't know what I was thinking because obviously my reactions were working?!?!? I was as useless as a knob of butter.

Really going to bed now!

Oops, bad x-post. Dreadful, Fi - hard to believe people can do that, to their own children! Don't beat yourself up about it - you are an excellent mother and are doing the best for your dcs and it's fair to assume that you always have, it's just your vision was blurred.

and Charlotte

Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!! And breathe

hilroliuds!

I hope the cry was a good thing relaxing releasing for you. I wish you deep dreamless sleeps.

It will hit me tomorrow really, but it feels like a stranger was there then and I'm so confused by that, as I don't remember what happened after (which is frankly quite scarey!).

For now its just another realisation, so I will wake tomorrow to see how it pans out.

oh! that should have said

hilarious - I don't actually know what the other word is?!

maggie you have lots of extreme FWtery to draw from without hoping for more to make your last step. even if nothing else happens, you hate life there, and thats enough. If you can imagine without any more 'events', that life just remains the same as it is now for the rest of your life? you know that would be awful and no more time to spend living like that.

Keep taking each step at a time asyou can manage, and then you can be ready to go, when you are ready. lots of (((hugs))) and concern for you feeling so down on yourself, and such lovely lady with a generous heart. xx

Thank you so much lovely ladies xx and sorry about flashback Fi all part and parcel of a life with a FW xx Tomorrow is a new day I suppose...FW off work tomorrow which I really could have done without after what's happened this eve

did I miss something awful happening maggie darling?

was just going to bed, after having friend here this eve, and another friend bottle of wine when the dog vomitted all over the sheepskin rug in front of friend

I just was heading upstairs to bed when I discovered DC hugging looo feeling sick. So back downstairs, nursing sick dog with temp, and now DC also. My turn to vomit now must be, right? xx

Hope puking has stopped Fi! Our old dog (rip) once puked up a tampon in front of a crowd, he had gone in bathroom cupboard and eaten one wrapper and everything-i wanted the ground to open up and swallow me, tampon and all! The wrapper came out the other end btw!

Soooooo....my big black dark hole has just got deeper and deeper...FW just got home...it would appear his Bfriend has now had "the chat" with him too basically asking him if he is unstable and saying how MIL is concerned etc cue FW coming home taking it out on me, I must be involved in setting it all up etc etc bollocks. I have pleaded innocence saying it must be connected with MILs recent "chat" but he said he is going to have it out with MIL and then god knows what she will say about me/the situation/what I have discussed with her. Oh for fucks sake! Why do RL people think they can fix things and they just end up making it worse a thousand times worse. Tomorrow is going to be hell on earth now, I will have his shit all day to cope with along with the secret sad pain I'm holding inside of me from losing secret DOldFlame friend and DD is poorly so will be clinging onto me for dear life love her heart. I don't know how to keep going...

Maggie You are so strong, all of the people on this thread are.

I an also wondering how the hell I am going to actually follow through with leaving, it seems impossible. I also worry that actually I am blowing all things out of proportion, as H is not as bad as what I have read. He is just too focused on money and things being done his way. And some times he can be lovely and really try.

Another moan about this morning, sorry it's TMI. I went to the toilet and H asked how long I was going to be as he needed to go to, I told him about 10 mins and he said that he'd watch DD. Anyway after 10 - 15 mins he comes and asks if I'm almost done... Sometimes when we have somewhere important to get to in the morning and he is on the toilet I have said to him 'just letting you know we need to be out in half and hour' and he will be pissed off when he finally comes downstairs for me 'rushing him'.

Also another incident I just remembered, for my 18th birthday my mum took me and him + my siblings to see a show at a theatre I used to be involved with - I was so excited. My younger sister in the car was about 12 at the time and was teasing H with Vaseline as he gets creeped out by the stuff, anyway she accidently got some on him, she said sorry, I said sorry for not stopping her (!!), but that wasn't enough and H was in a mood with me for the whole trip, completely ruining it. and then cheered up on the way home...

Also he used to make fun of me in front off my siblings, and when I got upset and left the room he would either tell me I was being 'over sensitive' when I came back through, or would follow me laughing.

He has grown up a lot since then, but now the problems have changed form this to being controlling of money, my time etc. If I phone my mum in the evening he'll want to know why, what she wants etc. In the summer before going back to uni I used to see my mum once a week, it was a nice break for me and nice for her to see me and her DGD (unfortuantly don;t have time any more, and the weekends he doesn't like meeting up with people on). Anyway H would say 'but you just saw her last week, I worry she's trying to be too involved in your life, she won't let you go etc etc.

I do think I would be better off if I had never met him at times. And yes, I know I can still change that and leave him... but I have no idea how to actually leave physically. I can make all the plans, find a house etc, but how do you actually physically leave, especially as I care about him

Tis you sound such a lovely mum. you are giving your dc what they need and God will be church with you in your home where you are

Just logging slight name change ladies xx thanks for support, you are all amazing x
*crawls back up in a ball in black hole*

I had meant to say Leclerc that, although I am completely irreligious I can still completely respect others beliefs, for that reason it maddened me, when I saw all of your honorable and humbling efforts to be open kind, responsible and repentent to your DC over the years of everything, and I said at the time how just humbling and tearyfying it was. Also I was thinking, how you are living your beliefs to the core, within your home; today you say how is is on your back about getting to church - ummmm, pardon me, WTF!? Why exactly do you go to church you FW FW???? You can tell him that god is in your life and in your home and that where good christian people go when thats where they are neeeded - go figure FW a'hole! grrrrrr too. Although actually, in reality don't say anything of course, just smile and say goodbye xxx

Oh Maggie (onthesofa) I hope things work out ok today. Its great isn't it when people are finally 'in' on the awful goings on so you feel supported, but then they go and do this and don't realise, or have no way knowing, how it makes everything a gazillion times worse

I was so glad to have had a good glug with friend last night. I finally peeled DC off the couch and took to bed, as no longer feeling sick, plus poorly dog with temp, at bout 2 I think . The relaxing boozy night along iwth your comments re: f/back have put some distance between it and me, and I feel stronger to face that today. thank you lovelies.

xxx

Sorry not read or caught up just a quick desperate post to say I'm desperately unhappy a d don't think I can stick this out even for short term as planned.

Oh Breathe. Was just reading quickly in between work (now abandoned as DS2 is awake), but had to post.

I am not surprised. He's a FW and you are still essentially in the same house. Get out. Call WA and get thee to a refuge. Go to your Mum's. Or get him out. I know it all seems too much upheaval, and it will be in the short term, it'll be really hard going, but in the long term it's better than staying. If he's harassing you in the house, making you afraid, don't stand for it, just call 101 for advice (or call 999 directly). You don't need to wait till he does something again, if you are afraid that's enough.

Thinking of you. hugs

(And Maggie - stay safe as always, my lovely.)

Then don't. My plans went badly wrong and I had to get out a month earlier than "the plan"...best thing I ever did breathe. Sometimes enough is enough.

Sort stuff out from the other side.

You can walk out for a pint of milk and never go back if you have to. Everything else will follow.

Sorry Breathe, that looks like I'm just barking orders at you, they are meant to be supportive suggestions! But just in a hurry to get it all down before DS2 kicks off at being left in the cot awake for too long, and it all came spilling out...

Breathe
I am another one who did not follow the plan she had drawn up.
One afternoon, I had just had enough.
Ok, it was not perfect, but I have not had even one second thought.
There were no second thoughts to have, really. I had had all the thoughts it was possible to have; it was time to do.
You do not have to put up with anything for a minute longer.

breathe do whatever you have to do to keep yourself safe.

leClerc if it was me I would FIL over the threshold, but he'd get no further than the hall.

Steps can be large, steps can be small. Some of us had to take that one big step first, others of us (me included) take tiny steps - I sorted all the bookcase shelves, his one end, mine the other, and squirelled away the most vital kitchen stuff. When you're going through hell, keep moving...

Leclerc Hall sounds like a good compromise.

LeClerc I'd make a hard and fast rule for myself - nobody over the threshold that I don't 100% want in the house. Not sure if that helps though. Not sure why FW needs to know if you're going to church. I think we get too conditioned to automatically answer any and all questions, instead of simply answering "I don't know. Why do YOU need to know?"

Yes, NC, by the way. I was um.. doing many things at once and got overwhelmed.. and chose this as it's a goal. Hope that makes sense.

Still struggling here. H doesn't control the money in the household, I do (mainly because he couldn't cope when the depression hit), although we do tend to butt heads over it occasionally. He has been dodging responsibility for lots of things, leaving it all to me, which is just too much trying to do everything with little or no support (or active fuss against me). So not the typical EA situation, I suppose.

He just doesn't listen to anything (me or the children). Sometimes it's like we're not here. I feel invisible, like I don't count. I've had to drag him away from his computer today just to get him to talk to and play with the children.

And just a slight separate rant. I am so tired of playing policeman to his behaviour. Do all women have to tell their partners to calm down, stop shouting, stop yelling at the children, don't speak that way to us, and on and on? Shouldn't he be able to control himself on his own? It's exhausting and irritating. It's like having another child in the house. A horridly bad tempered child.

Alright. I'm better now for getting that out. I have literally nobody else to talk to about this at the moment, as I'm stuck at home. He's supposed to go back to work this week, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm betting he gets signed off again.

So you are rooming on the second floor and the days of Christmas have passed??

And just a slight separate rant. I am so tired of playing policeman to his behaviour. Do all women have to tell their partners to calm down, stop shouting, stop yelling at the children, don't speak that way to us, and on and on? No this is not normal, not right.

But you know that, right?

im another one who didn't stick to my plans. one time too many i was forced out of the house in tears taking the baby with me to mums, and i said that was it, i wasn't coming back, for good. he got a shock that time when he realised i was for real. best decision ive made, although things have been by no means easy.

Tis, not saying it will be the case for you, but FIL and MIL dropped dd off one night before christmas and it was a nightmare letting them in. They were awful to me... i posted about it on here. just be very careful and be very strong!

The plan is OUR plan. WE make it. WE change it. It's ours to do that with.

Good luck Breathe, you won't regret it.

Thankfully i didn't need an escape plan. ex bf would leave at drop of hat anyway(usually when he was ment to have kids so i could go out)...although he had started getting the idea that i wasn't exactly in a hurry for him to comeback after his strop offs .

I just decided next time is the last time pal.

So he come in moaning about his tea fir 2nd night in a row. previous night was you have deliberately put too much food on my plate. you are a feeder. I don't like throwing food out when there are people starving. this time was 'is that leftovers? Don't you dare feed me leftovers don't ever make me this shit again' with lots of swearing. plus you can do their homework with them in the morning I'm not doing it I'm going on the internet.
I was all dressed and ready to go out. Decided I'd rather stay in and he could go out. for good.

He sussed a couple of days later that i was serious and started giving it 'what about me. i don't want us to split up. My bills will go up if i am in my house more. the kids will hate you. you're not perfect. y
ou should be nicer to me. etc.'

No grovelling apology. no omg i am a that for saying that.

I just kept repeating shouting swearing and name calling are not acceptable.
No acknowledgement.
Few days later.he said my friends say you must have someone else. bet he never told them weird fir word the don't feed me that shit conversation.

Word for word..not weird. dam phone.

Anyway i thought I'd see if i could get him to admit he had a problem with AM. not with intention of taking him back...just to see. so glad i did. I phrased it carefully etc.

His response- the usual circular arguments that have gone on fir 5 years followed by you are a control freak a fantacist etc. etc.

so now i know for sure he is an EA. he has some kind of PD that makes him totally unselfaware.

he said you are the one with problem.

I replied i am not the one who has been dumped by his gf for yet another abusive outburst.

I didn't say- no I had a problem but I threw him out 3 weeks ago;-) well not to him anyway.

<waves at jann> Hi, lovely! It didn't work out to come and stalk see you this time - still a hope for the future, though!

Alice - playing policeman is so frustrating and so wearing, isn't it? A deliberate ploy, no doubt, to show us that we can't rely on them or expect anything from them. I don't do it any more, except if the behaviour's harming the dcs. I just smile and nod inwardly and note it in my journal as soon as I can.

So now he is not speaking to except to see kids which hopefly means he won't try to come back and i have finally told my friends that he was verbally abusing me..always been cautious in past because i kept taking him back.

he is not nearly as bad as most of the FW referred to on this thread but stilltoo much work to be part of our life. and Alice re. policing and being computer instead of with kids...all sounded so familiar i wondered if he had been moonlighting at your place

Things that are troubling me today... 1. gaining more strength so I can see his FW face in court and not crumble but not looking too hard to the judge. Has anyone any advice please.
2. Hissy your words always give me that strength and whilst I would not say to him The plan is my plan. I make it. I change it. It's mine to do that with. How do I stay strong and not let him walk all over me and not let him shout when I don't do what he says and yet not be seen to be just doing what I want?
I seem to able to do that with others no problem, I never worry about that with others but even after all this time I worry he will tie me up in nots again.

I can't face the constant battle again. I'm having to write a statement about his abusive behaviour - I worry they will not see it, that if I have to speak it will not sound as bad or just silly. I don't even know how much the judge will ask - will I have to tell them everything. And as I go back though it all it scares me and I get scared of him again - I don't want him back in my life - why should I have to have him in it after all this time.
I am so sorry for not replying to everyone else. I have not been on much.

Just checking in to say hi all... sooo much FWittery going on, it is depressing. But at the same time you ladies all dealing with it (go Leclerc!) Hissy I do hope you're right about this kind of experience teaching you. I am worried about becoming bitter and mistrustful. I'm still in the middle of it right now - can't take a step back and reflect, yet.

Charlotte & Confused you said a bit further up about seeing your partners as good men... that struck a chord with me too. I can't help myself from seeing H as a good person even after everything that has happened.

I have the keys to my new little house, and moved a bit of furniture in though the water isn't reconnected yet so can't move in. I am leaving most of our stuff in the flat with H, as proof that he is wrong when he says that money is all I care about. I am going to have a day off work this week and intend to spend it in Ikea

DD2 keeps bursting into tears and saying she doesn't want to move house. Although she has been to the new house several times and doesn't want to leave once she is there. I have tried to reassure her by saying that she will still see Daddy as often as she wants - new house is about 3 miles away. I didn't want the DC to have to change schools mid year, so we stayed close. The thought of upsetting the DC was what kept me with H for so long - I am not sure how to explain why we are leaving. They remember so many incidents - smashed computer, cake in the bin, throwing ironing, throwing platefuls of food aroound, threatening to bin toys, all the angry swearing at me... I don't know what I should say because I don't want to turn them against their father.

H is very quiet. He says there's no point talking to me because I got what I wanted, and I should be happy now. He seems to think I am leaving to go and live the high life. Don't know if he really thinks this, or if he's trying to wind me up.

He hasn't told his family or friends. He doesn't have any close friends in the area, and I worry about him. Surely if your wife leaves you, you need to someone to talk to? I am wondering if I should call BIL and talk to him. I worry about him being lonely once we have moved out.

Charlotte that is what I'm doing as well. Password coded diary online, so can't be accessed. I haven't read back through it yet but been putting things in there for about 2 weeks. Almost afraid to read it as I'm sure it will be stressful (and eye opening when read all at once).

Sadly while H is showing signs of trying to make an effort, it seems like too little too late to me. When he can say "I was patient and talked to him (DS) and didn't lose my temper" like it's an accomplishment, I just feel ill. It's so rare that it's considered an accomplishment?

I'm just putting out fires while I prepare.

Alice H is like that. If I ever 'nag' about his behaviour he says "but I've NEVER hit you and I NEVER would!" as if that makes everything else ok. Then he talks about his auntie (poor lady) who was married to a man who used to beat her black and blue and who left her because she couldn't have children. That, to him, is an unhappy marriage but it isn't because some people are worse that he is OK.

Journal is a really helpful to stop yourself forgetting what happened. Then once you've decided to leave you can read it if you have any doubts about what you're doing!

nora good luck with move. :-)
Argh at ikea. unless you really enjoy furniture shopping but it has to be done and at least it will be your furniture!

thanks Nearest Ikea is an hour and a half drive away, so haven't been in years. I think I have rose tinted memories, and I'm looking forward to it

Nora I am sure DD2 will love the new house once all her things are there. I remember when I moved being really sad the morning I left the old house (years ago nothing to do with FW) but once I got to my new house with all my things I was fine, well more than fine,I am still here. Maybe chat about who is going to be the first person she can invite to the new house to have a sleepover?

Betterthanever that's actually a really good thing to say to DD2, as H would never allow friends round to play because it would get on his nerves, and the DDs mostly see their friends at school or park. He didn't like my friends coming round either, actually.

Note to self: if ever in doubt about the wisdom of leaving H, just write about him for a couple of minutes.

Alice mine played Civilisation for 10 years, every day, instead of going out and earning money. I was lost in self deluded hope that I could somehow break through to the man I 'knew' him to be. And I had hurt him deeply at one time, so I thought some of the blame for our dual dysfunction was mine.

And perhaps I was partly to blame. But I acknowedged my failings, did my best to atone, and to address my failings, and I'm very glad I did. He, on the other hand, did not.

On a different note, I like buying stuff from there. But putting it all together???

*there=Ikea of course

Don't bring it up, but if the question arises stick to your truth, in a short matter-of-fact way. Would be my suggestion, anyway.

Don't tell her it is gaslighting or anything like that. You know what happened in reality, you saw it with your own eyes, and felt it with your own hands.

But of course it is gaslighting...

Hello to all, and I hope the week has started well. I feel a bit of a fraud reading/writing on this thread as I'm not making active plans to leave the abusive relationship. (No physical abuse.)

But I feel I need to do something. FW here is always in a bad mood, but goes to the very dark side at unpredictable moments. Last night, out of blue, for example. He swears at me and says I'm mad, an idiot etc, etc, etc.

But his ploy is now to involve our sons, by telling them 1.to ignore what I'm asking them, 2.when he's swearing at me, to "see how she always antagonises me", and 3.later, that saying "shut up" "stupid" and even now "b****" is "not always rude". I ask him not to involve them. He texted this am to say " I agree. We should stop bickering in front of the boys".

Is there nothing I can do except plan to leave if/when I can afford it (knowing that then my sons would be with him and his abusive behaviour for half their time)? Would it help if I saw a GP or counsellor who could perhaps then make it clear to FW that this is not "bickering" but unacceptable EA, for which he needs therapy or medication? (There is no WA here, and little recognition of EA or even physical abuse in decisions on child care when parents separate.)

Sorry. Thanks and good luck to all.

Hi Thanks Leclerc. I'm only across the channel, but the default here is always alternate care of children (week by week), even in cases of physical abuse (which our case isn't), so if I left, the children would get his abuse for a whole week at at time, whereas if I stay we usually manage to do our own thing most of the time, including going home to my family most holidays.

Plus I have a tiny unreliable income from occasional teaching right now, and no right to benefits, and also he'd have no obligation to support me financially, so I can't see how I could afford to leave. Not now at least.

But I do see your point.

Surely someone has come up with self-centred arse tablets by now?

I'm a lurker on this thread really. Not really allowed online at home, H never “says” anything but huffing and puffing and dirty looks. Even though I’m keeping a diary of all his controlling behaviour it still doesn’t seem enough to leave. I would really like a trial separation but I know he would go MAD and it scares me although he’s never been violent, I’m still scared of him like I’m on tenterhooks all the time, pretending to be asleep at night so I don’t get a hard time.

I know for sure if I said I wanted a trial sep he would immediately accuse me of seeing someone else which is unfair. He’s never trusted me and constantly says “I know you’re seeing someone else” when I’m not. I would love to go and see my parents but I don’t feel like I can bcse he will think I’m staying with someone else. I want to go swimming in the evenings but the same would happen.

I’m feeling so down about it all.

I know it is, it's just that no-one would believe me if I told them I'm scared of him.

What's it giving me? Well, (roll your eyes at this!!)when he's nice, it's lovely. I get some lovely messages off him and he's loving and kind and thoughtful. Then he's a twat and it all disappears and then he's nice and...

Dear Mrs M, I sympathise very much with your situation. Before I was stuck living here, and with children, I found my partner to be as your husband sounds - so lovely much of the time that I overlooked the awful jealous controlling behaviour. Now I wish I had taken that bad behaviour more seriously, realised that the good behaviour did not make the bad ok, and frankly just put an end to the relationship as several friends advised me to do. Good luck with your decisions, and also everybody on this thread believes you about being scared of him.

fiveaddwhat thank you for your lovely message. Do you have an exit strategy?
I will go away for a day (which goes down like an eggy fart in a lift) and feel so liberated and happy and I will have some resolve and then it will start when I get back "why are you so tired? Who was all out with you then?" etc and I will retreat back into myself and my resolve will disappear.

Ex bf used to swear at me in front of kidder. when dd repeated his swearing at someone else he told me the solution to hit her because it is all my fault there is no discipline.

In the end i persuaded the rational version of him that turns up occasionally that that was not a solution and he needed to stop swearing or at least apologise when he did so they knew it was wrong. worked a bit but then next time he was in a temper it all went out the window.

five your situation sounds tough. any family you can go back to...even for holiday while you make plans?

MrsMorton your time will come, you think you can't go, you think you can't go, you look into what going means, you put some little efforts into preparing for going and then suddenly you will find you can't stay. Because you are dying inside, and death by a thousand cuts is still death.

there is no pressure here, we have all been stuck. Some of us for longer than others.

Just a quick post as I'm at work (for my sister in law, H sister).

Just need to vent that I am so tiered as I stayed up late doing uni work. Can't text my H for support as I'd get 'I told you so, you shouldn't have stayed up late, are you going to get moody now as you're so tiered'.

Sorry you are tired,it happens to everyone, all the more so when we are dealing with the man-toddlers as well as work, uni etc. Keep going.

xxFool

Sympathy tiered I'm doing my masters dissertation at the moment and get snidey comments about once a week...

Thank fool and morton. It's crazy isn't it, that we can't even express tierednesd without snidy remarks.

Another annoyance today - this morning I wad searching for hair grips, went upstairs and got the usual 20 questions on what I was doing and why!

I'm at work too so no time to really post, but just wanted to say bonjour to Five I'm across the channel too! Will post again later but are you sure you're not entitled to any help? Have you been to see the CAF? Assuming you are in France and not Belgium / Netherlands or somewhere else...

Hi all, I plucked up the courage to ring a counsellor today. She seemed sympathetic but I wish I had prepared 1st as I really didn't get my points across well and now I feel a bit like I am over exaggerating. She did say that I sounded like I was treading on egg shells and that it sounded like DH is default set to being rude.
Trouble is he being nice now, wonder what he wants.
Sorry I never get much time to read thru as H huffs and puffs, so I am on my phone in the bathroom.

Yay for your new phone leclerc! Many hours will be wasted on it I predict if you are anything like me.
pony how are things with ds1?
try, I think I have missed a vital post from you as don't know what happened with the flat. Did you manage to get fw out of your house?
lahti, well done for ringing the counsellor. I am seeing mine for the first time next Monday.
Maggie hope you are managing to get more things out of the house and that he is not at his FW worst at the moment.
charlotte what is the latest with your plan?

Sorry to anyone I've missed.

I had a fantastic night out on Saturday with my best friends. I told them it was the night I wanted for my 30th, but 2 years late as wasn't worth trying to organise it when we were still together. It was such a nice change to be with people who wanted to celebrate with me. I managed to avoid a stonking hangover somehow.
I suspect more fw behaviour over next month's cm fees. My total cost for childcare next month will be almost 500 quid if he doesn't cough up. My solicitor is ringing tomorrow afternoon to clarify how I want to proceed. The quickest and cheapest will be my answer. Hoping it won't take long to get the nisi now we've agreed on the finance.

Hey all - haven't been posting much, had a really big sudden rush job to do over the weekend, been up late last few nights. So am sympathising with the studying ladies on here, haven't had to do late nights and concentrating like that for a while!!! But it's more work, and more money, which is good cos I have been running out am frantically burying my head in the sand... The good news on money front is that FW has started paying maintenance for DS2. Although it's not nearly as much as I thought it might be, so am only just getting by (and that's without having a landline/broadband to pay for).

Loving the new phone action Leclerc! not jealous at all, I love my very functional and non-gadgety phone, oh yes, no shinies for me

Matchstick - your night sounds fab!!! not jealous of that either... DS1 is fine, thanks for asking - no idea what was going on on Saturday, it really looked like he was faking stomach cramps, writhing about, but I don't know. Could've been genuine, his cousin had something similar recently, a virus. But seems fine now...
I'm not sure what's happening with Breathe (Try) - the flat fell through, and she's ended up back at the family home with her FW, but it doesn't sound like that's going very well (massive understatement). Hope it's getting sorted (in a Mafia 'sorted' kind of way).

Anyway, my eyes are on stalks and I promised myself an early night. Thinking of you all, lovely ladies.

Hi everyone. Not been online for a while as get too many huffy puffy comments from FW. But think about people lots. Have done a quick skim through and caught up on all the events.

I have made a few baby steps.

1. I've phoned WA - they weren't able to answer and i didn't leave a message but at least I've got as far as picking up the phone so I know I can do that again.

2. I've started a journal particularly for all those minor snidey comments that you can't remember so I feel like I've started on the long road to evidence and maybe even breaking free.

3. I've renewed my car insurance all by myself. A pathetic thing I know but the look on his face of annoyance has given me so much satisfaction. I had some spare time at work so checked out the quotes. Found the best quote. Comapred all the little extras. Normally I would have shown this to him for his approval but I thought 'It's MY car and My money. My research has made me decide that this policy is the best for me'. So i bought it there and then and then casually mentioned that it was all sorted so he didn't need to worry about it. Cue a million little questions.... because obviously I'm not capable of making such an important decision by myself hey

Hello, I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right place. I posted in Relationships last month here. The basic story is that, at the stat of Jan, H told me that he wanted to leave, then spent the next few weeks going back and forth, saying one day that he was committed to our relationship, then the next, that he couldn't give me any assurance of his commitment.

It has been such a hard month for me - I feel as though I've been under my own personal black cloud - and now dh has moved out, to stay with a family member for a while. I've kind of reached the end of the road emotionally, I feel completely used-up and exhausted, and can't imagine being able to have a healthy relationship with him. Although he was the one who wanted to leave etc, he's now saying that he wants to stay together - I think he's realised that he could really lose me, or maybe has lost me already. Meanwhile, I'm just starting to see what life on my own with the dc could feel like. It's not that bad! In many ways I've felt like a lone parent for a long time anyway.

I feel terrible, still - I feel so guilty and selfish, although I don't think that's rational I've had two counselling sessions, which have made me realise that the marriage has always been about him. I've remembered (I had previously stuffed this all down the back of my mind) that he's threatened to leave on various occasions, and has let me down terribly, over and over again. It all hurts so much. We've had one marriage counselling session together too, which also was all about him . We have another booked this week, but I'm feeling very about it. I don't really know what I'm saying here really, other than 'help'. He isn't at the worst end of EA, but he is on the spectrum.

This morning, H texted to tell me that I didn't tell him I love him enough in my text messages... so I just texted him at random to say I love you (which I do, I just don't like him very much...) and I'd texted him earlier about a meeting I have to go to and he texted back and said: "I love you too. Another meeting!!" I have about one a week, they are never after work and I'm never late home (unless the train is delayed) and I run a department of six people with a budget responsibility of about £150k.

I just can't believe that he's happy to live the lifestyle we do based on my salary (I earn over twice what he does) yet he begrudges e doing my fucking job AND moans when I try to better myself and can't even support me in my work.

I know i'm lucky to be financially secure however the prospect of redundancy is very very real over the next two years and I'm worried about it but he's happy to spend £50 on wine every week. I'm just fed up of it, death by a thousand fucking cuts was never truer.

feeling no matter where he comes on the spectrum of abuse it's still not right. The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none at all. It sounds like he has done you a favour and left you alone for long enough that the FOG has lifted and you can see who he really is.
You are welcome here, if it is helpful to be here.

MrsM quite.

Listens, you are doing great! Well done getting your car insurance sorted. He might notice you pulling away a bit now, as he was perhaps a bit shaken about you doing it yourself - he could ramp things up either way - become much more difficult, to put you back down, or become super-nice to make you forget why you need to detach!
Make sure you phone WA back though, it's so important to speak to someone in real life and they are so so helpful, I've found.

MrsM, it sounds like it's just another way to control you - 'You must tell me you love me more'. It's like a demanding child, not an equal.

Feeling - that sounds just awful, no wonder you are drained and all your emotional (and physical) energy used up. Maybe you need to be a wee bit selfish right now, and do whatever you need in order to support yourself? If that means delaying going to joint counselling right now, so be it. If that means cutting off most contact with him apart from him seeing the kids, till you get your head together and mentally rested, so be it. What do you want to happen right now, and how can you get as close to that as you can? Hope you are doing ok, what a horrible situation.

I've spent another morning that I wont get back at the council offices again, trying to sort out my housing benefit application again. Grrrrrrr. Just blinking well tell me if I'm entitled!!!! Six months I've been doing this now! They surely have all the info they need to make that judgement. It's just hoops and red tape now.

Been reading my Practical Parenting book in fits and starts. Not far into it, but it's helping (partly, helping me see my own deficiencies, which is hard to take but I have to be honest to help DS1). Leclerc, I've thought of you lots as I've been reading it, and your struggles with DS1. From what the author says about boys especially struggling with feeling 'isolated (in a 'tower') and acting out/actively pushing away the very people they want to be close to, you are doing a damn-near angelically perfect job at holding him and connecting with him when he's being like that with you. You is fab. I am learning lots from you.

Bit of good news. Some of you may recall me claiming the front room with new cushions.

Have now reclaimed one of the spare bedrooms with ...er... a good friend

feeling Meanwhile, I'm just starting to see what life on my own with the dc could feel like. It's not that bad! In many ways I've felt like a lone parent for a long time anyway.

I totally know the feeling. ex made himself so utterly dispensable that him not being there is really no different.

And yet for some reason I feel really quite sad today. I am missing him even though a lot of the time life with him was such hard work and even though i know he is not in the least bit sorry.

I told a few friends he had been verbally abusing me and then immediately felt so guilty I couldn't stop crying.

today he posted the image from thsi site on his blog (I know I shouldn't look but it helps remind me he is often not very nice)
jenniferchilds.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/03/the-hormone-guide.html with the message 'now I know where I have been going wrong'

cos that is right of course, it is my hormones that made me object to him saying 'don't you dare cook me this sh*t ever again' and not the fact that it is just plain rude. In his head I am sure that sounded like "What's for dinner".

Silver

Hi ladies. Hoping some of you might still remember me .

Apologies for a long absence, things have gone very dark and I'm feeling a bit lost. FW-spaghetti head style. I've skim read recent posts and will go back to read the thread properly as there's a few names now I don't recognise.

When I last posted FW had just accepted a new job closer to home - the argument I was predicting r.e. the car happened just as I said it would. I managed to persuade him that despite the obvious cost, having a second car would be beneficial as our runaround wouldn't cope with the daily commute but would be fine for the days I need it. This worked well, I think he likes the idea of how having both a new and second family car will look to other people. On the downside he starts his job in just over a week but can't find 'the' car. I've been firm and told him if he doesn't find a car in time he needs to get the train until he does, but that caused another argument and I know he'll only take the current car if he wants to regardless of how it causes problems for me.

His little niggles, comments, behaviours etc are now firmly back to what they were pre-couples counselling. Last weekend, for example, we had my sister and her boyfriend over to stay. FW decided he wanted to go look at a car and persuaded her bf to go along too, then as they went mentioned they 'might go for a swift pint afterwards'. Leaving sister and me to entertain DD. 4 hours later we get a phonecall saying they were staying in the pub to watch the football and would bring back dinner later (not asking what we wanted). My sister was furious as I'd earlier suggested that she and me go out for a change that evening and she'd said no as she wanted this to be a weekend 'for us all'. She told me how she feels FW doesn't like her, which is true.

2 hours after that they rang us (drunk) to ask us what takeaway we wanted. They both arrived with more booze, sister and me were grumpy with our respective partners. Her bf (who is lovely but easily-led) apologised profusely to her, sorted out her dinner for her and had brought her home a drink. My FW, on the other hand, when he saw I was annoyed, left my dinner in the kitchen, took his upstairs, ate it and went to bed without another word. When I asked him if he was coming down he said no 'due to my behaviour' and that he 'wants a divorce'. I spent the rest of the evening crying in the kitchen, trying to be quiet so sis and bf didn't hear me.

Of course, the next day he was attentive (but without an apology) and has been 'good' since, which means nothing.

He's been out a lot recently, burning money on booze while I'm still sat in debt. There is no way out for me. My free sessions with my counsellor at work have now finished so there's no support anymore. But he's not been physically aggressive for a while so that is a bonus.

That was a mammoth post, sorry. Will catch up on things later.

nini, there is legal aid until April, after that it's gone...worth thinking about??

Hi Leclerc . I'm so in awe of the way you parent, you're such an inspiration despite the odds. Would be interested to know how you get on with that book, I've considered buying it myself.

Fool, I have thought about legal aid, but not sure I'm entitled to anything (my wages are pretty good, I just have high outgoings). Was thinking about approaching a local solicitor for the free half hour thing, but havn't had the guts to do it. So many other 'buts' in the way.

Since we have a penalty clause if we sell our house before the fixed rate ends at the end of the year, I've been searching for our full contract. Can't find it, which means I need to ask FW.

maybe it is time to stop hiding your crying from your sister...[tender hug]

Probably, Silver, just lacking in guts to do it in front of her. Afraid to tell her in case it comes spilling it, that night was the first time I've ever heard her say bad things about him so was a bit of a shock.

And well done on getting acquaintanced with a 'friend'. Hope you're enjoying yourself

Hi lovely ones

Apart from flat falling through due to financial reasons, fw had got into kids' heads and I couldn't see my way to extracting them without moving back in and reclaiming them IYSWIM. However, court case, lawyers, mediator and other stuff punctuating the next couple of weeks, giving me assurance I am not slipping back.

But subconsciously I felt terrible desperate despair at going back in even though it was strategic. Letting the flat go, despite the perfectly reasonable financial reasons, felt like signing my death warrant in some way as I know you'll all understand. Anyway, I have been ballsy and tough - very unlike me - and split house totally so I'm upstairs and he is very grumpily and martyrishly downstairs.

But more importantly, today I saw my new place. It's available end March, it's cheaper, much nicer, near my work, kids saw it and liked it. I am phoning tomorrow to negotiate and then put down firm deposit and that is that. Meanwhile have to sell our old place (I mean not current home but old home) (currently rented out) to clear massive debts. So plan is in place again and old place (the one to be sold) is on market and I am going to get a dog as soon as we move because kids and I have longed for one for ages and the fw has always pissed on our dreams.

Sorry for non engagement with others - I have been through horrible horrible times this week. Thank you so much for support. xxxxxxxxx

Hi Try, sorry to hear about your flat but glad the plan is back in place with your new one. Stay strong lovely xx

breathe no wonder you feel exhausted but you sound positive !! I am glad your court case etc. gives you assurance you are not slipping back - mine has the opposite effect - I feel he is pulling me back in. I should see it as you do and a step away from him for good, I suppose we did have unresolved business.
MrsM the text me more thing sounds like gas lighting - my ex said that - when I did it (he was working away at the time) he shouted at me that I was trying to make him give up his job (I worked). His was about me not saying I missed him enough - it was early in the relationship and felt strange but I didn't understand it then... it was a red flag I never saw.

nini could you not ring the bank about the contract? they may be able to offer you other advice at the same time.

Hi better. Yes I think I will ring the bank, would be easier. Something to do tomorrow!

I can see what you mean about needing to see FW blow his cover Leclerc, these guys really have no idea of the damage they cause do they? Despite his shocking behaviour towards your DCs, it sounds fairly positive that you're getting towards the end point. Being happy is good!

Must go, he's coming up to bed now.

Leclerc, not a stupid thing at all to wish for, I've wished similar - it's validating, for others to see it and not just us. But I think he'll be sneakier than that. Hope the book is useful - I found it a very enlightening read. A friend also just texted me to say that Oliver Sacks has written a book on love bombing, so I might look up that too.

Breathe - lovely to hear from you. Glad you've got somewhere else lined up. I can't wait to get a dog either - FW allergic, and I had to give away my 17-year-old cat in order to move in with him... <stupid idiot> Stay strong sweetie.

Nini - lovely to hear from you too - I'd guessed that things might be bad with you. Another vote for telling you sister - by email, by letter, however you feel comfortable. Re your house - if the penalty clause is the end of the year, count that back: you could sell it in September with a move-in date of end of the year. To sell it in September, you'd need to have in on the market by at least July, I'd think (start of the holidays). So, if you left now, you'd have 5 months to try and salvage things between you, or even just be separate for awhile for space. Anyway, just an idea. And def go for a free appointment with a solicitor.

And Silver: prrrrrraaaaaaaaaooooow!

I can see what you mean about needing to see FW blow his cover Leclerc
I am hoping for this in court... there were signs last time only small but they were there. You are making strides...

silver

nini hugs, sorry I've been in a bad place so haven't caught up but have been very concerned about you. xx

Good to see people checking in here and there. Always unnerving when someone goes quiet for awhile, I think.

H not going back to work this week, going to ask GP for another note. That'll be another couple weeks he'll be home. He's started counselling and did the whole "according to her I have anxiety and depression" although he says he told her he has been abusive to us. Apparently he expects me to herald this as a big step forward. Not sure why, as he's still shouting and swearing today. He claims it's anxiety over not being able to go back to work this week.

MrsM, what a FW he is! Mine would say similar. When he's on a trip, he'll go days with no communication (all my fault, of course, for being unreceptive or something), and then remember me and fire off a few instructions of things I should do or reminders of previous instructions. (When he - much more rarely - writes a chatty email, it's all about him and any attempt to empathise with me shows all too clearly that he just can't.) Anyway, the other day I sent a quick email in response to his, just asking for clarification of some instruction he'd given, I think. His reply: "Fine thanks, and how are you??!" FW.

Breathe - glad you've found a better place to replace the one you had to let go. Hoping that keeps you going through these tough times.

Nini - lovely to hear from you. I notice he's gone from being NSDH to FW... which I think is very healthy!! If you were to divorce (purely hypothetically), that debt you have would half belong to him, wouldn't it? Oh, and my doctor offered counselling on the NHS when I told him about EA. Not sure if that's free or just subsidised, though.

Matchsticks, glad you had a good night out. Wanted to point out (but not sure I should) that you are now 100,000 in binary. <geeky>

My plan: I am seeing a woman from WA next week, mainly to talk about the dcs, but will also get list of recommended solicitors. I need to find out what I'm entitled to re house and money. I've decided not to work next year, and I'm considering staying in this house, although I have no idea how FW would react to my pushing for that. And I want to tell him it's over soon, because he's acting like everything's fine, or will be if I would just agree to live overseas... Have already mentioned in front of dd1 that I won't be working next year, although haven't had that conversation with FW yet. Oops!!

Mrsm - I'm the only worker in our house and nsdh actually had the gall to suggest by email that all the late nights and last minute rota changes were suspicious and was I having an affair?!? I was livid and wrote back a very uncharacteristic angry email which apparently "hurt him very much"

Pony - thanks for the encouragement. I did call wa back and spoke to a lovely lady who has given me some local no.s. Not phoned yet but I know I will. Hope the council get themselves sorted.

Just been wondering whether any of you still feel your h/xh loved you truly on your wedding day? When I look back I'm sure I saw genuine tears of emotion. It was 10yrs ago though. Now when he cries I think they are tears of self pity that things are starting to not go his way.

Stay safe and positive everyone.

Does anyone else feel a strange sense of guilty relief when they hear their H's behaviour is experienced by other people too? To explain, I'm glad I'm not imagining that this behaviour is abusive but sad that other people experience this bollocks too.

Mrs M absolutely we've all been gas lighted for years so it's a revelatory relief hearing similar tales even though we don't wish it on others!

Leclerc I wrote a long post in reply to you and it's disappeared! But essentially I was agreeing with you

Just marking my place. Will read the whole thread later. If you search my user name you should find a thread in AIBU which might explain why I'm here

tisileclerc I'm scared of H, I witter on about any shite especially when I see his "tells" like biting his lip or tapping his foot just in the hope that he won't kick off. He's never ever been violent but he shouts and I'm naturally very quietly spoken so I hate the shouting and I ask him to stop shouting and he says he's not but I just accede to whatever he's saying or asking because I'm scared.
I don't know why I'm scared though or what I'm scared of.

Could some of you please do me a massive favour and if you haven't seen it already look at my thread here and tell me if you think what he's doing is emotional abuse?

breathe MrsM I think it also a relief to realise that although it is sad that these things happen, people can be really strong in adverse times and there is life after a rubbish relationship...or at least that is what I am fervently hoping and it would seem from others on here, that there is:-)

Hi plus have read your thread.
Certainly he is a twat of the highest order, to treat your/his DD like that leaves such damage and the reinvention is of, course a form of gaslighting.

However, for it to be emotional abuse then there has to be a degree of coercive control. Emotional and psychological abuse has much the same intention as physical abuse and threats: to control and dominate. If you feel as though you, your feelings, your needs, your opinions are being devalued, are given no importance or credence, then chances are you are experiencing emotional abuse.

From your thread it is impossible to say whether this is an emotionally abusive incident (from which you and your DD escape bruised and battered but intact) or part of the pattern of an emotionally abusive relationship. For that you would probably have to look back at your relationship prior to splitting and the relationship he has with your DD.

Whether he is or isn't a twat of the same family as those you will read about on this thread...he is still a twat and you have dealt with him and your daughter admirably.

PS give your daughter a and a big pat on the back. I failed my 11 plus but went on to gain a professional degree, and higher qualifications, membership and so on. (didn't stop me marrying a twat unfortunately). Learning to work for what you want is one of the most valuable lessons in life...and you and she have given her that gift.

11Plus, hope your dd enjoyed her look round the school today.

fool's answered your question pretty thoroughly, with her usual wisdom. You don't say much about his usual behaviour on the thread, but the dismissive way he treats any update you give him about dd's schoolwork ("her ABC is fine") tells you you are wrong and he knows best - that certainly looks like a red flag. The fact that it's all about him is another.

Alice, hope you are doing ok. Not sure how you must be coping with his constant presence. My FW is a teacher, and so I dreaded holidays. Is it at all possible for you to go out with the kids for the day without him? You need a break from all this.

Charlotte, glad you're seeing someone from WA. It's all towards the light, isn't it.

Leclerc, how did it go this morning? Are you officially stopped working for him now?

11Plus - I agree with both fool and Charlotte. How is your DD now after the visit today (did you ex come too? Hope not!). Hope she's feeling better about her efforts, she really should be proud of herself, but I know that it has been tinged irretrievably by his comment. Eejit!

In other news, spoke to my lovely DSDs on the phone last night. Just chit-chatted about normal stuff, tried to stay away from anything FW-related. But DSD1 mentioned a couple of things (throwing me a line, she obviously wanted to talk about it I think) - on Sunday just past, FW didn't wake up until 2pm. The girls were being picked up at 2pm, so had been kicking about the house on their own all day until then, basically didn't see him at all on Sunday. I know they are 11 and 13 so perfectly capable, but still. And how much must he have drunk in order to be passed out like that for so long??? He aint getting my son for an overnight any time soon, he can kiss my ample butt.

Pony your poor DSDs - somehow, I thought they were older. They are still babies
Where Oh Where is the spaceship that will take all FWs and leave them in outer space?

Struggling a bit today. I know I shouldn't care what he does as even though we only split up a month ago and I do not want him back.

But I still miss him. why? why on earth do I miss someone who is not at all apologetic for repeatedly swearing at me and calling me names in front of the kids? or for all the time he took me for granted, told me what I thought and who slagged off my parenting and kept telling me that certain things were my 'job'.

I know that he is trying to get back out dating and a part of me is glad as it means it is less likely he will try to come back. (he was playing the I wish we hadn't split up but if only you were nicer to me and you have to admit although I played a part you have done x,y,z card. I stood my ground but it did make me question myself).

but a part of me is hacked off because he can easily move on with his life and I can't. I have the responsibilities of being a LP to think about and not bringing another person before into my family before it is safe and the practicalities of not being able to get out very much and then just the general chances of meeting someone not very high...I didn't do that well when I was ten years younger and had no kids...I know it is possible if unlikely but for him it is easy.

I don't want someone right now... i would just like to think that maybe, maybe someday I might have a normal relationship.

I'm not even sure I could relate to someone else in a normal way anymore.

so any success stories out there?

and I will miss sex
(everything else may have been dysfunctional some of the time but sex was really rather good)

arth - I know.

Leclerc - when I read that book the first time (about 3 years ago), I nodded my head off in the first few pages recognising all the things I did! I laughed out loud reading the description of the parent shouting 'Right! That's it!' and thereby losing all rational thinking from then on in - I was sooooooo guilty of that!!!
I still find it really hard not to say to DS1 'there's nothing to be scared of' but I'm trying! But I found the book just really useful for making me thinking about how I would feel if I were DS1 and in a particular situation, and how the things I was saying to him were making him feel.

minkembra - a month is still a really short amount of time, it's still raw and your emotions will still be all over the place. I was an absolute mess for months, confused - my FW was actively trying for us to get back together, so that additional head-spaghetti to deal with. And the frustration that he doesn't get it and in all likelihood never will, so will never acknowledge the hurt or the damage of how he's behaved, I still struggle with that, and I'm nearly 9 months out. Not sure I'd call myself a 'success story', but I am proud that I got myself and my kids out of an abusive situation, and despite many many wobbles got us into our own place and stayed out. We are now getting divorced, so the story continues. Sometimes I feel good, sometimes I don't. I still feel it's early days, and there are so many things going on under the surface to deal with.
You will meet someone else, someone normal, but you need to let yourself heal first. Are you getting any support for yourself, like counselling?

The meeting and look at the school went really well. I am examining my relationship with the ex and he does have a habit of belittling my opinions and engineering things so that he gets his way all the time, and re-writing history when he doesn't.

I am off to another meeting shortly but will sit down tonight and read the thread. Thank you all.

And minkembra - re your last post, me too. Still miss it (despite it also being dysfunctional sometimes ), miss him in the bed and in the bedroom . But I think what I miss is someone. Someone who I can cuddle up to, who makes me feel safe, secure, who I feel good when I'm around them, etc. I certainly didn't feel any of that with FW, flashes of it but mostly not. One day, I will meet someone who I do feel these things with, as the rule and not the exception.

thanks pony yes I am seeing a counsellor. thankfully work has an employee assistance scheme so I got that sorted out really quick.
It is very, very raw still and you are spot on about being annoyed that he will never get it. he always used to joke that I chose him because no one else would have me where as he could have his pick.

which I would laugh off were it not for the fact that he does do pretty well for himself.

I suspect he treated me considerably worse than other people he has been out with because I was younger than him and because me being the default child carer created a power imbalance and then our entire relationship was some awful power struggle.

I know I need a long time to heal but I am just hoping that it is not game over. I'd rather be alone than be with him but alone is a slightly bleak prospect.

and like I say...I can live on my own for a long time (I have had to before and I am not actually alone, I have the brilliant kids)

...but no sex I may be past my wild youth/prime but I'm no deid yet.

on the plus side his older daughter was really kind to me last night and said not to worry I'd still see her but she thought it was for the best that we were not together anymore.

Leclerc - re the rabbit (I have a vision of a Mexican stand-off between them), and to the tonsillitis. Can you get a prescription from the doc's toot suite?

Definitely not game over mink. I was on my own with DS1 before FW, and perfectly happy. I am on my own again, plus kids, and perfectly happy. I know I'll meet someone else when the time is right preferably a handsome millionaire author of children's book.

Deid??? Are you Scottish? (like moi)

Sewn into her trousers it looks like!

2 teeth extracted, new denture in, oh the joy. Will let it heal a bit then contact friend

I'd be backing the bunny too, Leclerc - had one as a kid that used to terrorise our fairly feisty cat and chase it around the run if it dared to come in!
Def get appt, the sooner you can head it off at the pass, the better with tonsilitis.

Silver - hope your mouth is feeling better soon! That made me lol that you were waiting to contact your 'friend', heehee!

V funny Dolly! Mime-tastic!

And tidy your room Leclerc! (I feel old enough to be your mum though...)

I've never used citalopram, but at the start of taking my ADs back in June, I felt sicky quite a few times, usually in the evenings (was taking them in the morning). But it settled down quickly. have a look at the leaflet with the packet for side-effects.

And good news re DD1 deciding (for herself) to stop contact. She's a brave girl, a real credit to you.

A big <3 to Dolly Parton! Love her

Sorry to hear you're poorly Leclerc, try to take it easy. Admit I did laugh about Houdini rabbit though! Your DD1 isn't fooled by FW at all is she? Brave girl

Silver, btw, having an 'out of action' mouth is a great reason for friend to come and help you feel better by pampering you if you get my drift .

R.e. sex, FW and I havn't so much as touched each other since our hols in September, and even then it was a disaster. I know what you guys mean when you say you miss the company. I now keep a pillow between us in the bed to avoid accidently cuddling him in my sleep. He's stopped pestering me now which is good, in fact when I came on to him about a month ago (I know, I know...), he actually pushed me away.

Oh well I just bought myself some roses as a romantic gesture to self ;-)

and yes pony I am indeed no deid and Scottish.

I need help and advice for my child. Sorry but I am going to have to be vague on details.

They are in an EA marriage and have realised and acknowledged this after a very rocky few months.

They want to leave but are very frightened of the fall out. They are primary carer of the child from the marriage, aged less than one year. They want to take the child with them but know this will cause the fireworks.

Having escaped an EA relationship myself (sins of the fathers etc) I have advised calling 101 to register concerns (done) contacting WA and getting support of outside agencies prior to leaving (done). This has made them feel much stronger and able to proceed.

What else should we be thinking of/doing to ensure that they can safely leave and protect the child?

Next on list is break up haircut!
Rarely get to hairdresser as I would have had to ask ex to mind the kids but I shall have to co opt a babysitter ask gran and get out the locks looked at.

bubble perm perhaps?
what I really fancy is (going back to) ruby hair colour. at one point I had a metallic pink bob. these days I think that might constitute sheep in lamb's hair dye.

Hello all, sorry been out of action...still in my black hole and have a horrible bout of flu Just a quick catch up......

Leclerc DD is so clear on him and his actions isn't she, bless her, is good that she knows her own mind but still so sad he has done this to you all. Hope DD2 starts to see things in black and white soon too. Had to laugh about roger rabbit! Maybe you should set him on TOD! Good that 'me Julie' is still listening to and logging the FWerty that still goes on despite you not even living together even more. I don't think any FW really truly "gets it" before or after spilting up Hope you feel better soon.

Nini Good to hear from you on here, glad you are as ok as can be expected, we are all here for you. I was very much in your position back in september, not a soul knew of the real FW I had been living with. Then my DBfriend and her hubby seen FW in action by accident (only something mild) but they were so shocked. Since then I have dropped hints to others, DMum, DBro, MIL etc etc. Suddenly things are starting to make sense to them all so I'm told. The turning up at event/parties with red eyes (after car journey from hell), the social life gone from me being the life and soul to me never going out and if I do sitting in a corner quiet as a mouse, the change in what I wear, gone from fashionable fox to frumpy fatty etc etc. Stay strong Nini....baby steps...baby steps...

Breathe Good to hear from you too on here, hope you are doing ok in the upstairs, so happy you have found another flat, I hope things will go straightforward for you securing it. And yayyy re doggy!!! I have plans to get a goldfish for kids! (starting off small!) I shall call him paddy! Will be thinking of you re flat etc and keep going you are doing great under the circumstances.

Silver happy for you and your gentleman caller!!!!!

Pony That book sounds good, I may need it too even though DC are only young but I sometimes struggle with being a mummy and knowing what I am doing is right or if its wrong and affecting them

Waving at everyone else....sorry if I missed you, have only glanced at thread

In other news........apart from bout of flu, general FWerty etc, I am very much grieving for DOldFlame and the RL support he gave me I have sent him an email and just said I was worried about him and that something had happened to him and maybe cut all FB ties so quickly incase someone else had his phone and seen our messages and to let me know that he is ok but on the other hand if it is the case that he wanted to just cut all contact with me then to just reply "yes" so I will know (couldn't blame him if it was the latter, who would want to stay involved with a needy woman trapped in a FW relationship) Have had no response as yet and I sent that yesterday . There have been times recently I have just laid on the bed upstairs after putting kids to bed as felt so ill sad and bloody FW then appears trying to curl up behind me grope me saying sex will make me feel better (not with him it won't) He also says if I come back into the bed shag him he can make everything change and we will be happy again. Errrr no thanks.

He was also away with work overnight last night, I was really looking forward to it, proper sleep in a bed etc but DC had a total meltdown both screaming for him most of the night Makes me doubt I can ever leave here if they are like that for one night, most nights when hes gone awol boozing they don't even know hes not here as I cover for him so are fine but last night was so strange and made me think they hate being with just me Today now a house has become available, right area, top of my budget....normally I would jump at it and be straight onto the agent but something is stopping me...last night with DC just spooked me and what I would have to deal with when alone with them and if they would actually hate it just the three of us. He is due back within the next hour or so and I am dreading it. Had planned to get loads of stuff out to my storage place too whilst he was away yesterday and today and haven't done anything but deal with tantrums and myself being ill and grief stricken so just feel like I'm stuck....trapped.....in my black hole of hell

Sorry for such a long mammoth post...verbal diarrhoea or what!

Thinking of you all x

How about a spiral perm, mink? I used to have one of those, when I was about 16, I loved it but, really, it was not a good look for me! and neither was the bleached blonde, the jet black, or the pink

Seriously, go for the ruby colour, if you'll feel better with it like that. It's about you, not anyone else.

Jayho, sorry to hear about your child. It sounds like they've made great steps towards moving forwards. I guess WA will probably already have given this advice (and I think it's on their website), but sorting out some independent finances, if not already available, copying or storing any vital documents (copies of mortgage statements, bank statements), hiding passports etc in an emergency bag with some spare clothes. If you are helping them, you could perhaps store an emergency bag and any documents etc. Inform the school/nursery of any problems/issues maybe, and anyone else - doctor, health visitor. Can't think of anything else right now, but will post again if I come up with anything else.

Maggie - flu, urrrrrgh. You have so much to deal with, without that. Don't beat yourself up about not getting done what you'd planned, sometimes RL gets in the way. And about the DC kicking off last night, my thought is that their reaction had v v little to do with FW at all. I think they are reacting to you, how ill you are, how sad you are - they can pick up stuff, and they are just using 'Daddy being not here' to try and explain to themselves why they feel bad, and to get the bad feeling out.
You could manage with the two of them on your own - you do, anyway, and you would feel so much better in yourself, that would make a world of difference to you and to them. If mum isn't happy, neither are the kids. I'm not saying it would be a picnic all the time, there are times here when I'm just exhausted and floored. But I still don't feel as bad as I did when I felt exhausted and floored and scared and upset and worried and anxious and all the rest, when we were still at home.
Think about the house. Think about how you'd feel being there and not on the sofa. You need to get out, for your safety and sanity, and that of your lovely kids. So if it's not this place it has to be somewhere else. Maybe this house isn't right for you, maybe it is - its hard to know for certain with these things. But think about it.
Sending you hugs and soothing thoughts, my lovey.

Thank you Pony sniff sniff (from tears not flu) xx

Jayho agree with everything Pony said, sorry I must have xposted as only seen your post now. Take care.

Mink I would love to just shave my whole long barnet off if I had the guts britney style so not the best to give advice! I've gone a bit george lamb the last few weeks, time for a colour touch up me thinks!

pony spiral perm. yeah me too. and the jet black made me look like Elvis;-)

And the time my lovely previous ex drew flame shapes on my head because he was going to shave round them, made a mess if it had to shave my head all over the pen didn't come off and i had to start a new job with pen showing through a crew cut.

Maggie it's not raining but pouring and the flu will weaken you resolve but i think in the long term the kids will thank for securing your and their safety and happiness when you are feeling better.

Maggie i had a skinhead (without pen) on and off for years. people kept calling me son.
Was snogging aforementioned lovely ex in a pub and heard the bar man say 'is that 2 blokes snogging?' barmaid 'no one of them is a girl' 'which one?' 'eh, the one without the beard'

So all in all i think shaved bonce would greatly increase chances of long term singleness.

Woohoo!

leclerc that's great news.

Sorry I am on my phone so can't remember all your names but I have read through and hope everyone is as ok as possible.

warning self indulgent post coming up. Currently hiding in bathroom hiding from H as more people I work with have told me that my marriage sounds emotionally abusive SHIT!!how did I not realise for 12 years. At the moment he is being nice, although I think that is everyone else's normal. I feel like such a bitch as I can barely stand to speak to him about very much, I am sure he thinks I am just being moody. I sort if wish he was being horrible as at least I would know why I am upset. Rambling now. Will be back tomorrow, hopefully not crying.

Yay leclerc Definitely .
Lahti it is a shock when people describe your relationship in that way. A few people had said the same to me way before I left, but I just didn't want to believe it.

Fantastic news Leclerc
Lahti, no real experience as nobody apart from my sister the other night has ever told me my FW is a FW, but I guess it must be a shock. Don't feel bad that you didn't realise, feel good that you know now.

Another row tonight. We tallied up our monthly outgoings today and of COURSE he queried something - the nursery fees this month. I looked into it and long story short, turns out I'M the one whose been shortchanged due to HIS mistake. Sent him a snotty email at work which made me feel better.

So he brings home a chocolate bar to say sorry. Fine.

Then later I tell him that in a few weeks when it's my sister's birthday, I'm thinking of staying at hers overnight (Mum is also staying so will be a good girly night), which means he needs to do the nursery pickup that Friday evening. He exploded at me as that day will be the end of his working week in his new job, so I 'can't expect him to be around as he will be finding his feet at work' . It's a 9-5 fucking job, he'll be closer to home than he was, half an hour in the fucking car! And yet I'm ASKING TOO MUCH?! I told him he was being a dick and as always his job comes before me or his family. Then I came upstairs.

Things can't get any worse so I might as well speak my mind.

matchsticks Thankyou. I just don't know what to do. I feel like he needs to do something awful for me to go. We are supposed to be visiting my parents in a few weeks. Last time he threatened to leave as he felt they were rude to him (they weren't), if he did that again I would give my DD to my mum and say that is fine but I am staying. However that won't happen this time and I missed my chance.

Everything is in joint names including bank account for both our wages and mortgage. He sorts the finances and makes such a big deal of it as though I am incapable and now I also think I couldn't do it. I rang a counsellor but just sort of blurted out the less horrible stuff. I will ring back but I don't know what to say. I have already done RELATE and we are heading back to how it was minus him having an EA. SHIT SHIT SHIT.

leclecr... go you !!!! you are an inspiration.
Lahti even those my exdp ended our relationship and I didn't want him back I still didn't really see things and friends had been telling me and I had not heard them. You have heard them, you are feeling it. It doesn't matter how long it takes you have done it!!
Maggie you have taken me back to a time when I thought the world was against me when on top of everything I got the flu. After years of therapy I now know it is natures way of telling you to rest, regroup and then onward. I didn't think so at the time, it made me upset. You are doing a lot.. you are doing well. When I am feeling my worst I feel DS hates me.. and what I am doing/ not doing. There must be some reason for this, they must sense something. We want our situation to be different, so they must I guess - they can't understand we can't make it all right. They don't hate/dislike you - they just dislike the situation... I think? They can tell you, they feel safe, they can't tell FW?
Jayho totally agree with Pony I haven't been in that position but I am really sorry about the situation and really wish them well.

Lahti, open a bank account in your name only and then if you decide you need to leave you can transfer your wages straight into it. Ring tax credits and local council to see what tax credits/housing benefit you would be entitled to, then you know how feasible leaving would be. I am actually better off financially single as I was paying a disproportionate amount into the bills account.
I think tbh, once people know what he is like it spurs you on in a way. I felt that once I'd told people about incidents and everything in detail to my closest friends and family, that I could never go back as they would be wondering why anyone would.

Lahti i went 7 years just thinking we argued a lot and his time keeping was poor and his will power not very strong.

Then i kinda realised that we weren't just arguing. it was the sane argument round in circles, a lot of what he said was not rational and that he was verbally abusing me.

So when i told my friends who actual knew the way he treated me that i thought it might be verbal abuse they were a bit like thank god you finally realised. i still feel a bit shocked and a bit dumb for not realising. i was always angry about the way he treated me but somehow never clicked.

My mum still says it was at least partly my fault. thanks mum.

thankyou all of you it is just becoming real to me now, I just feel sick. Question.. How can I open a bank account secretly? as he will notice the statements arriving? Can it be done so they are only sent online??
I can't believe I am saying this but I really wish he wasn't being nice at the moment.

Fairly sure you can just have online accounts. You could explain to the bank if you felt able.

You can get statements online i for with my online account. or you can get then annually so by the time you get one hopefully you will have moved. only issue us that they do usually send some forms and or your bank cards to your address.

Speak to the bank. see if you can sort something out. you will need your passport though.

I also remember the feeling of feeling paralysed when he was being 'nice'. I bet he is only 'nice' if you are doing everything exactly how he likes, eh? Stage 1 of the cycle-building up the tension slowly. My estranged H is being 'nice' at the moment, but only because he wants me to go back and end up with more of the same.

mink matchsticks Thankyou. 12 years ago i was a different person to who i am now.
You realise it is bad when you daren't get the bus and instead walk 2 miles in the rain as he would complain that I wasted £3.

He may be being nice but think back is the nice more of the time or less? is the nice nice enough or just not actually nasty?

With my ex the good times were like when a headache stops. it only feels good because it hurt so much before. otherwise it would just be neutral rather than positive.

At least if you are ready then if/when he does turn nasty then you can go.

Lahti sorry to hear you're having a tough time, its hard when you see how bad others in RL think things are. When my DBFriend witnessed a mild FW act she was so shocked but I had just become to accept it as normal-seeing how she reacted straight away made it hit home to me and she hadn't even seen him at his best FWerty.

Leclerc good news about reclaiming dining room, all positive steps forward!

Nini feel for you, my FW controls all financial stuff now, I'm not even given any housekeeping money and have to make a shopping list that he goes and gets as I "can't be trusted" with any of HIS money. Yet I'm not allowed to go back to work-my good career- to get my own money Please don't let it get to that stage with your FW.

Mink shaving my head now! Although just want to repel FWs, nice normal manly men are very welcome to apply once I am free and over all this FWerty!

Speaking of Fwerty...FW arrived home after being away for two days..spent an hour with me and kids and then buggered off out to watch footie with his mates. Never mind that I am really ill and could have done with a break from kids, nah as long as his mates are ok hey? On the other hand thank feck he's out of the way for the night but god knows what time he will roll in

Nice is just the absence of actively being nasty. Thing is though I have been a misery guts the last few days so I feel like when he starts being nasty I wil have caused it.

Lahti Jeezo that is some level of control

i was very lucky (in relative terms) as i retained my financial independence throughout. so i had no such issues except when we had to pay for things together like a holiday and then he would always make out he was being done somehow and start a fight. He was always really paranoid that i was after his money.

Xposted again!

Thank you Better x

Lahti I've opened a sdecret bank account a few months ago-its the barclays current account, you just get the card and starter peperwork through the post and opt for online statements, nothing else comes through the post-everything online!

Yes, we had a bills account and own accounts. If the bills account ever went overdrawn, I'd have to itemise all the bills to explain it as he'd accuse me of spending money like water, yet take about 30-40 quid a week to the car boot and come back with a load of crap we didn't need. It was the double standards that did my head in. I was told he was sick of me being so miserable and moany, but as any of my friends and family members would say, he was the only one who made me feel that way.

Lahti: BANK ACCOUNT

You need a basic bank account with online everything. A basic bank account will have no credit check, no monthly minimum pay in and no flash extras that get you noticed by people who send you random mail. I opened one with LloydsTSB...just had to be firm that I did not want one of their fancy ones!

The best place to find a recommendation is Money Saving Expert: You need n online account with a cheque book and debit card. if it has an allied credit card that is also good as these accounts tend to have a low (£50ish) overdraft limit but the credit card will give you more flexibility. Most you can open with £10 and then transfer child benefit, pay, WTCredit etc when the time is right.

In preparation i would make sure that the child benefit is paid in your name and that you know how to QUICKLY remove his name form any credit cards where you are the principle card holder. It is also helpful if you can make sure that you are jointly named on something like council tax bill as this will be a useful proof of identity and previous credit worthiness.

Sorry that's an essay!

PS they can deliver paperwork to a branch near to you if you can't have it delivered to your home...or even work if that is plausible.

foolonthehill Thankyou I need no nonsense advice like that. Now I realise what has been going on I just feel so sad/angry.
Just realise We didn't try for another DC as we felt that 1 had been hard enough for us but now I think maybe it was because I was under so much control and utterly exhausted by it. Too late now though I am 37 and DD will be an only.

Don't have anything more to add on the bank accounts Lahti, fool and everyone else have given good advice, but never say never on more children. You just don't know what will happen. I had DS2 at 38 and would be planning to have more, if his daddy wasn't a FW.

Half-watching 'One Born' earlier while working, having tv on in background helps me, honests, and had a flashback/memory from when I was pregnant, had completely forgotten. I must've been about 7/8months, had routine midwife appointment. She asked if I'd felt a certain number of movements in the last 24hrs, I said couldn't be sure I had, definitely less movement than normal but sure it was fine. However she sent me up to the hospital for a trace. It wasn't a big deal, fairly routine just to check. So I texted FW to let him know cos I wouldn't dare not keep him completely up to date, and asked my mum to take me up. He called and sounded really angry with me. Asked me why I was going up, as if I'd requested it rather than having been sent by midwife, insinuating that I was making up stuff to the midwife to get more attention (something he also leveled at me when I got iron tablets prescribed for a low blood count). I was trying to play it down, not up, but he was just really off and angry with me, wanting exact details of what the problem was and what was going to happen when I got up, how long it would be, etc. I just kept having to say 'I don't know', I was so anxious I couldn't talk straight and certainly wasn't making sense, which was just making him more annoyed with me. Mum heard it all and wasn't impressed. Just so sad. He should have been concerned for me and the baby, wanting to look after me, but instead he was just horrible to me. When i think of that me, sat in the car upset at how my supposedly loving husband was being towards me when I was feeling a bit anxious and vulnerable (I knew it was all fine, but there's always that worry), and how anxious I felt speaking to him, I just don't recognise myself.
No regrets about leaving. None. Not at all. Just very very sad as I still muse on what could have been (to misquote the Adele song). If only he weren't a FW. But he is. Tuh-wat.

Sorry, long rant, been musing about that for a couple of hours now as I worked and getting more and more annoyed thinking about it!!!! Anyway, been working all eve, and lots more to do (gotta somehow fit about 20+hrs' work in between now and Monday morning, urrrrr) so am off to bed.
Thinking of you all. x

Pony when I get a flash back I feel like he has some how managed to get to me again via thin air. I had stopped getting them, they are back. I wanted you to know that I know how it feels but my therapist said it is a good thing and it will help remove the pain, I hope he is right. One Born really upsets me - it was just a wonderful yet terrible time. FW raised his game when I was pregnant and then again when DS was born. I stopped it via a legal route - I was surprised he backed off, he's back. He's rewritten the history - it's like the final stab when you have already almost bled to death or he's dug the knife in the raw bit that had healed but the scar was still showing. I guess we can't forgive nor forget but we can deal with the emotion? make the bad memory something we take forward to make us stronger not weaker.. well that is what I am trying to do, I'm varying in my ability to do it.

pony and betterthan those flashbacks sound terrible. Were they turning points for you? I was just thinking about some of the things H has done which makes me go . He is sports mad and so was I but less so now, anyway last year I had a breast lump. He dropped me off at clinic thinking all would be fine. During the clinic I had to have a biopsy and was fairly sore afterwards he couldn't understand why I didn't want to go for a gentle run that afternoon. He even said that i should have gone for a run before my appointment instead of risking not running at all. A week later I went back for the results and before we went in he asked if I had been for a run that morning and seemed genuinely shocked that I hadn't. I was more concerned that I may have cancer as I have a strong family history rather than clocking my run mileage for the week.

Another time I had a bad bike crash (broke my nose, bad bruises etc, etc
I had to get him to take me home but instead of letting me rest on the sofa he dragged me around shops looking for an antique watch for him. I challenged him on this a few months later and he just said that resting just meant not being at work, so in his eyes I was resting.

Sorry for grammar am on phone.

Sorry should have said that my biopsy was clear.

anyone still up?

cheeky to Silvery

Hi,hi, to everyone else.

2nd Fr.Prog tomoz... not excited atall taking plenty more tissues (and a tiny voice [hoping] )

hard to keep up with the thread here but i check in every so often and am thinking about you all

After my mum's remarks of yesterday and seeing time of the utter FWittery you guys have put up with I am starting to wonder if I have made it all up and he wasn't that bad after all. he never tried to keep me away from my friends or family or to control me financially.

he just shouted and swore a lot and radiated so much tension it was like a buzzing noise in the room.

Then again he did spit on me once so I suppose that is bad enough.

Sorry! That sounded like competitive misery. i was just reflecting out loud that although in the grand scheme of really not very nice partners he was more just a bit useless and inconsiderate that actually malevolent. i was rarely if ever actually scared of him and some of the time i was pretty angry and shouty myself.

Just a bad dynamic i guess.

mink spitting is just disgusting. Funny how we justify their behaviour.
Thankyou all for your help last night when I was having a meltdown. I have a poorly DD today but I am going to open a bank account tomorrow. I am going to collect my thoughts and put them into some organisation before I ring the counsellor again on Saturday. What do you normally talk about with them. Last time I rang I didn't admit that I was thinking about leaving but I think she guessed. I just feel like I amreading off a list if bad things about H without him getting the chance to defend himself, is that how others felt?

It is disgusting. it was a long time ago and ^even he ^realised it was beyond the pale.

I have only seen counsellor once and i did pretty much just rant about all the things that had gone on and owned up to my own failings just to get it off my chest.

This week assuming sick child is better (snap) I am hoping to talk less about him and more about moving on and dealing with all the spaghetti head i have going on just now.

I hate crying in front of people though so i find hard to be fully open.

poorly child (dd2) said today i am sad you won't see him anymore. she knows she will see him but it is funny that she is sad that I won't. although_ i think_ what she means is she will miss us all having days out together.

I should try to get some counselling for them too. there is something at their school but I am not sure how they access it.

Hi mink no level of abuse is acceptable it is all relative. The FW and his backers always talk it down too and/or justift it when there is no justification. It's how it makes you feel too.
Lahti I thought the flashbacks are my strongest memories, but I guess you are right they must have been turning points when I started to know something was wrong - the first ones esp. I chose to ignore although I do seem to remember more if I can bare to think back, which the court case is making me do - I have to say that it easier now than 6 months ago when I had to start thinking about it.
When I was pregnant we lived apart and on the way home from a family (my) function he wanted to call at his house to get something. I was feeling really unwell but it was not optional. When we were at his house I lay on his bed. After shouting abuse from downstairs he came up and shouted in my face how lazy I was and how he couldn't stand how I was handling being pregnant. This promoted me to tell my Mum things were bad - she didn't even know I was pregnant at the time so it was hard to tell her but I am so glad I did. I think that the fact one person then knew about what he was doing to me prompted him to plan his escape which wasn't much afterwards.

Aww poorly DCs. So sweet that she is worrying about you. Mine doesn't spit but I remember that we were at my cousins wedding and my mum was getting stressed hence so were the rest of the family. I tried to help H to do his tie up and he just snapped that if I didn't stop fussing over my mum he was going to slap me (how on earth did I forget that?) this was all out of earshot of my parents but they knew something was up. I remember feeling really sad in the church especially when the vicar asked us to turn to the person next to us as say I love you. This was 7 years ago prior to the EA etc but I still remember it but don't know wether to forget about it as we went to counselling afterwards. I feel like I need to ignore the behaviour from prior to 2007. Is that right?

Mink sorry our posts crossed.
Have a chat to the school and see if they can arange it for you. I think there will be a waiting list. It hit my DS hard when my ex just turned up after being absent all his life. I spoke to the teachers and they were great! I did cry, I felt like a fool but you can't help your emotions, pleae try and let it out. The teachers said there was a waiting list and to see if he settled which he has as I have cushioned all further FWery. I may not be able to do that forever depending on what the court decides. The teachers also said they would speak to the guy for some general advice which to start with was to see if it settles and see what else he may have to face and we can take it from there. I guess that is all we can do.

min mine didn't try to keep me away from my friends, at least not much. I felt free to do what I wanted. But he never wanted to do anything with me. As to finance I was free to spend my money as I wanted - which I spent on keeping us going in a frugal manner while (as I thought) he was finding work to support us properly. My money was partly earned, partly capital from DF. FW now claims to have not been looking for much work (he did do some, mostly at weekends, as I was too ill to care for kids (and it didn't stop him leaving kids with me at weekends!)) and because we were married what's mine was ours (I agreed with this view) and that therefore he could just live off my money...grrrr

(Rant ctd p 94)

*missing bracket (he did do some, mostly at weekends)

Hello all, just checking in. Had a counselling appointment this morning, couldn't really be bothered. I said to her at one point, that I'm just bored of all this. So we talked more about me and less about him (heehee!), and about how things will be after we've split. I've come out buzzing, so I'm glad I went regardless!

charlotte that's great.

I think I am just feeling guilty if I label him as EA. i mean it is a pretty terrible thing to say about someone and I never really confronted him about it and spelled it out. i did say that they way he spoke to me was unacceptable.

I am swinging between reminding myself that there really is no hope, no point going to relate and thinking what a terrible thing to say about him
...and in a way about me.

min for over 2 decades I kept going with false hope. Mine did not swing from nasty to nice, he just somehow started off OK then got nastier and nastier - I thought he'd be better once he found what he wanted to do, but it seems he didn't really want to do anything much. Like many here, the slow increase meant by the time I began to wake up, I was in pretty deep in terms of no longer knowing what normal was. I was going to divorce him in 2009, but thought my mh would not be equal to living alone, and decided on one last go. Things continued to worsen until I finally filed for divorce in Autumn 2011.

Then they started getting better again

I can't get my head around it all tbh. I have bought "Why does he do that?" but I can't take it home and I'm constantly in demand at work so I struggle to read it.

Last night he was home late from work and I was cooking when he came in and he could hardly bring himself to speak to me, this is on top of him not bothering to tell me when he would be home (Imagine if I did that...) and then I was looking for a course to do to keep up with my CPD and that was entirely unacceptable. "What course is this then?" "Where will that be then?" it's just the tone.

Then we had a spot of gaslighting "don't you remember I told you there was a power cut" er no, you didn't and I have an almost photographic memory but it's easier just to say "oh yes I remember".

AND NOW!!!
I'm cooking again tomorrow night & I said I would pop to the shop tonight to get some bits (he normally does the shop while I go to mass on a Sunday) "where will you get that then?" Tesco? "Well we've got enough food in the house" so now I will scrape together something shit and he will laugh at me and tell our neighbours that I'm shit at cooking again.

Sorry for ranting, it all seems to come out while I'm at work because I'm not allowed to do anything at home except sit with him and watch soaps.

aargh! mine semmed to want to nothing except watch tv of an evening (after his hard day at work - not!) I quite like reality progs about police, ambulance etc but after the first twenty or so times not so much! And then I started to notice when it was a repeat... I didn't have to watch (and as time went on i did so less and less) - and anyway he and DD liked the living room far too hot for my liking (let alone that I was paying for the heat).

^^ clearly Rant (ctd)

Same here r.e. watching TV - my FW likes nothing better than to sit in front of the TV all night watching gritty realism programmes, so he can wring his hands and complain about the world. It's exhausting watching TV with him - which doesn't even make sense!

After last night's argument about me staying with my sister for her birthday, he texted me this morning saying 'that day is fine'. I havn't responded. He think he's oh so special for being one of those people who needs to be allowed 24 hours or more to 'brood' over an issue before making a decision. Which is why he explodes at me then sometimes goes back entirely on his word the next day. Not sure why that bothers me but it does.

min - it is a real rollercoaster, especially in the early days. I remember swinging between all of those feelings (and I still do some days).

This thread is moving quick these days but thinking of you all.

thanks leclerc for empathies. Todays horror at my turning up to my first place in RL to talk (or not!) about this stuff, and I walk slap bang into someone I know, vaguely, who knows many of my friends well! Now I know this stuf is v. confidential, but today I was my own oppo! I was there professionally and introduced myself as such, andproceeded to be the person that I usually am to the world.

The rest of the women of course now think I am schizophrenic! (or just a complete fruitcake) but at the very least no longer trust me! I was thanked by a few on several occasions for my very valid and valuable insights [as a professional] to the proceedings. I had to visit two ladies, I felt I should, who were looking particularly unnerved by it, to explain my ruse(?). I they did confess to feeling mistrustful and didn't like having the extra 'professionals' there, and were totally flabbergasted by my transformation (a different woman, they called me).

I guess this just goes to show the 'face' we give to the world and the sad realty that we have to face of the pain and tolerance of whats gone on behind closed doors

I hope to be back to my emotional reality again next week (which will no doubt throw them even more as I return to a weeping gibbering speechless wreck! )

Oh gawd.. I really am crazy arn't I.

I apologise for not keeping up with the thread and only coming here to bring personal struggles rather than trying to help out, but right now this is me in a mire and not feeling up to the rest, sorry.

but much love to the LLOTT and strengths for your battles xxxxx

I am sorry Fi but your story made me smile.
Yes, it does just prove the face we put on to the outside world!
How we reach for it.
I am sure the others will understand once they know.
Look forward to next week's story!

Yup i am indeed swinging wildly between things at the mo. he contacted to me today about something was a actually being nice and helpful and it threw ne a bit. But then he could be nice. He just wasn't very good at realising when he was bang out of order.

Was at docs yesterday with poorly child. the has reflux (and a virus ). Doc commented that was tall for her age and that reminded me of one of his pet niggles.

He is tall, i am pretty tall and his eldest is v tall. so he was always complaining our too not tall enough (for what?) they are slightly taller then average but that is not enough.he kept making out i wasn't feeding them properly. then the one who used to be smaller(twins btw)
Had a growth spurt and overtook her sister. he kept telling the now smaller one that if the didn't eat more then her sister will be bigger.

Then one day he was saying 'which one of you do you think is my favourite' (no, i have no fecking idea why he used to do that) and the smaller one started sobbing and said 'you don't need to ask it is obviously her because she is taller than me'

i was furious and made no secret of it. pointed out that it need not be diet. my sister ate like a horse ate half my food too and I'm still 3 inches taller. same parents different genes.

He has no clue.

Must stop ranting. displacement activity I'm avoiding my homework.

fi i reckon they probably put on different faces too do they may already get it.

Mink that's awful re the twins

More later, sorry being scooped up to drive kids.....

Just checking in before I go home (soooo much easier to MN on work time )

leclerc your DD is so perceptive - that should stand her in good stead as she gets older. My genuine biggest fear is that DD will grow up not able to spot an EA-er

charlotte glad the counselling got you buzzing. I think we get so used to life not being about us that it is good to talk about yourself

nini/silver I too have a TV addict. And I am not allowed to speak during it otherwise the TV just gets louder and louder and louder (Obv am not allowed to touch the remote control)

fi I think we are all such good actresses - noone would guess the inner turmoil and might even think that we are lucky to be in such good marriages.

Something that's bothering me ...

I can't stop feeling sorry for NSDH. He has had the chance to have a lovely devoted wife (me ) and to be part of a happy family unit with a welcoming extended family. We are financially secure and so could be treating ourselves from time to time. We could be having so much fun with DD. And yet he has pushed me away and eventually will be denying himself all these things by being so pigheaded and thinking that his life is sooo bad. I have started documenting his abuse and he has no idea that I'm contemplating leaving and I feel so guily about it. I'm so stupid.

listens I feel exactly the same re my fw though I am exasperated with him for all those reasons, not sorry for him anymore. But us partners of fws are normal loving people so naturally our love and pity are provoked by our fws even though they don't deserve it... it's a sign we're decent people - bet your bottom dollar if they were thinking of dumping us they wouldn't spare a flying feck for our feelings though

I feel a bit sorry for my ex but not as sorry as he feels for himself.

And he will have a new gf by the end of the month and he can tell her all about what an utter utter cow i am and how awful it all is for him. he is already on POF.i know i should not have looked but i did.

Invited to lunch at someone's house today. Just three of us plus dd3. Nice, open, genuine people. Should be relaxed and fun, right? When I drove away, I thought, "Well, that was nice," and was instantly overcome by jitters: it took quite some time before I felt calm again. Was so worried about whether I'd done what's expected, what I should have said to be polite when leaving, whether I'd been boring when I spoke and so on.

So then I started wondering why and I think I'm used to socialising with people FW chooses, when FW chooses; what's more, he'll dominate all proceedings, from overseeing food preparation and service to choosing what we talk about (changing the subject if it's not interesting enough to him). I just sit in the corner like a shrinking violet. In fact, I try not to talk, as he will often either talk over me or tell me helpfully about some facial mannerism I have when I'm nervous talking in a group.

I did do little bits of mum and kids entertaining, on my own terms, until about 15 months ago, when we moved house suddenly and I just couldn't be bothered getting to know a whole new set of people. So since then, I've invited dc's friends around now and then, and just socialised with them when invited out. No wonder I was out of my comfort zone in a solely adult environment!

And the two women I lunched with have serious non-abuse issues with their Hs, which they talked briefly but candidly about. And I stayed silent...

And someone has invited herself over for lunch tomorrow. Which is scarier by far! I need to get used to stuff like this and make proper friendships, too, but I just want to avoid it all, really. Life is tiring enough!

(The "telling me about facial mannerism" thing happens after the event, by the way.)

charlotte the fact that he feels the need to undermine you suggests you are far more comfortable in social situations than him hence the need to cut you down to size. he probably cannot handle having other people like you in case you find out what normal people are like.
I too get quite paranoid in social situations but then so do most normal people who actually care what other people think.

Just try to enjoy having genuine friends.

It should get easier the more you see them. that said my house is such a tip i am not too keen to have playdates here. need to shampoo the carpets.

And read this thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1678824-Not-content-with-walking-around-the-town-with-used-pant-liner-on-my-cardi-in-full-view
And think this kind of serious wardrobe failure has probably happened to them too...

charlotte Re. worrying if you'd done what's expected.

as long as you didn't have a pant liner stuck to your cardi when you left you were probably fine.

I have decided in the next month I'm getting the break up hair do. getting my bff to take a half decent picture and dipping my toe in the online dating water. no intention of actually going dating for a bit- chance would be a fine thing and not ready yet- just gonna practise my chat. cos i bet lack of practise has dulled my patter.

Mind you through online thing didn't go so will last time. ex was pick of the bunch

FW has just called me to kindly advise me that dcs may be "blaming" me for "taking them away" and that he is operating a carrot not stick method with them now - he thought I'd like to know so I didn't end up being the "bad" one. Oh hahahaha, fw. For years I have been screamed at for "painting him as an arsehole" when I have been comforting to dcs after his explosions.

And we left the other week because of his mad explosion and he threatened suicide in front of dcs - he now blames me for that because I "shouldn't have answered the phone in the car" - it goes to broadcast automatically. So it's clearly my fault.

And now he's moving round angrily downstairs because I called him on these anomalies. So he then phoned me to say all discussion with me is pointless because I am "a certain type of person with serious issues and a chip on my shoulder".

The trouble is, in a sense he is right - the kids do blame me because you do lash out at the safe one, the one closest to you and because I did take them away - but with completely justifiable reason which of course I can't overplay to them as it would be damaging to slag off their dad.

So it means I can't leave again as they would be freaked out and possibly refuse to go. I will have to divorce him from under same roof which will be incredibly hard. [help]

He's such a sneaky, self deluded little bugger. The only bright side is, he has completely inoculated me against ever wanting to be with him again. Thank you for that at least, fw.

Next week: court, lawyer and mediation. Plus I have signed up to FP (starting March) and asked doc for referral for counselling to help me deal with stress and remain assertive.

Every nasty scene with him is a step forward I suppose because I am breaking through the barriers of inertia and standing my ground.

Has anyone else who's left had this trouble with worrying whether dcs will go along with it because they're being brainwashed and emotionally entrapped by ea mind games? How can I deal with this? I would love to leave and now I have made one break I know I can do it. But can I, can they?

Thanks leclerc xx so sorry you're feeling rotten lovey. Hope you feel better soon.

Did anyone see Grand Designs tonight? My ideal for the commune - that library/living room - ahhhhh and breathe And I loved the woman on it

Hi all..sorry not had chance to read thread will try catch up tomorrow...just need to log some stuff as using this as my journal..

Today FW off work, lots of FWerty ALL day. Groping, nasty comments, overreaction re mouldy bread (even though I'm not allowed to go shopping), swearing in front of DS, comments re my personal appearance, ranting about me taking too long to get back home to him and DS from collecting DD from nursery (10mins later than normal/DS crying for me) resulting in him storming off upstairs in a huff barely saying hello to DD, returning 20mins later as if nothing had happened. Just lying on sofa watching and not helping with DC bedtime routines even though I'm very ill and DS ill too. Swanning off out on piss again with mates (groundhog day), before I even got kids to bed knowing I was struggling, returning home about an hour ago to announce I can't have 'his bed' even though I'm ill and he's not sleeping on sofa so I must get back to my usual bed aka sofa (what's new). Off he goes to bed, banging around, waking DC up so I have to take ages settling them again. I then go into bedroom to make sure lamp is switched off as by this stage he is snoring and there...right before my eyes he had done one last act of FWerty to crown the day....

....He had gone into my cupboard specially, taken out a packet of sanitary towels (which I have to buy on my credit card btw) got out a towel, opened it and stuck it slam bang in the middle of our full length mirror which is the first thing you see when coming into bedroom. WTF??? I have left it there and closed the door tight so DD won't barge in and see it but I shall see what he does with it in the morning. WTF is that all about? Suppose to symbolise? Its not even my time of the month. Is it sexual abuse? God knows he been doing the groping thing all day I fucking HATE him. As soon as this flus gone ill be digging out of this black hole again, whether my fingers bleed or not. Nothing like a full on day of FWerty to bring one back to ones senses.

Another of my posts has disappeared! It happens when i post from phone. But I was posting strongly in support of you maggie honey. So sorry to hear how awful he's been. The Sanitary pad on the mirror- WTAF?!! You poor thing. I hope you feel much better very soon and can get out. Xxx

maggie I hope you feel better soon. Re the sanitary towel WTF!

Oh oh oh beautiful ladies, and fuck fuck FWs!!!!

They are crazy crazy crazy - everything you both say Maggie and Fly (((You both being soooo amazing and big hugs!)) - mind you, after my craziness this week who am I to talk!

Yes, I would say, he's invaded your intimate privacy maggie(which is sexual, he is trying to sexually humiliate I would think), but I seriously wouldn't worry about the DC seeing it, you have enough to worry about, just tell them every woman in the world has them or similar, its no biggey, and well done for leaving it there. Or you could feign distress, as it being he 'worst' thing he could ever do to you, and maybe he'll just focus on throwing sanitary towels around the place, rather than throttling or groping you!! I guess, some hope? that would be too easy! I am sorry you're ill. don't worry about what it symbolises (the ST that is). Sleep with your poorly dc in the bed all day and get well soon, or in their beds, but that sofa lark is just awful, are you keeping warm enough. Hot water bottles and stuff so that you are hot to sweat it all out (gross I know, but it works, hot baths).

Try glad he's making himself look so ridiculous to you as to put an end to any feelings still straggling around.

FWIW I would take the DC and go, because of the harm it is causing you all to stay, and tell him that. Say that contact will be resumed once some normality has [... you all being back in the house when h'es gone] in the meantime the dc are suffering and need space and time to recover from the awful environment that they continually surrounded by. I think you are doing a brilliant job coping with them in the face of all this, and standing by and showing them the love and kindnesses and support that they need, but there is, I think, only so much they can take, and you! You are doing everything you can to get this all sorted, as well as being very strong against him. It won't be so long till he's out so tell him normal contact will be resumed then? I know the kids won't want to leave their house, but you can reframe it as a nice long holiday, and when the holiday is over you will just come home and have the whole house to play in. Then say he's away working - could that work, that he could be working away, or on his ownn holiday, just so they don't sense any kind of 'leaving' from him or them? All you are doing is removing them from a dangerous unstable environment and you have good cause because he has threatened to kill himself in front of them; terifying

Is there anything workable in there for you? DC hve no sense of time atall (age dependent), and if there needs to be a visit because they are desperate to see him, then do a supervised (with family member), in the park or public place, taking them to dinner or summat? Or a weekend in the middle to break up the long time? The sooner that you are back in the house the sooner normal contact can be resumed.

I am just throwing suggestions into the air, ways of looking at things from some different angles to see if anything might occur to get you out of this mire right now. Possibly none, or a bit of some, or your own different plan. It just sounds awful, I feel so sad that you have done all of this and now find yourself stuck in this way! grrrrr, for you.

How long is it now before you take full possession? xxxx

take care ladies XXX

I managed nearly all 8 hours sleep last night, so feeling quite invigorated, especially as I switched energy supplier! <picking self back up from falling off chair with shock> and energy saving tip - turn off EVERYTHING at night (all that power sucking standyby stuff - should save £100 pa apparently - just sharing for any thatothers in financial crisies!)

Get well soon Maggie
Keep breathing and flying! Fly

lots of love all xxx

Thank you ladies...glad not just me with a WTF moment on the towel! Its still there on the mirror, weirdo FW.

Hugs Breathe, Lahti and Fi great support as always thank you xx thinking of you all

Maggie that speaks volumes about a weird attitude to women.

Think it is beyond working out though.

And am coming to conclusion it is not worth any of us trying to work out wtf half the stuff our assorted dysfunctional others are up to.realised i spent/wasted half my counselling session on that when what i meant to talk about was recovery and moving on.

So yes you are right in thinking what tf but i don't think we'll any of us understand why tf. He is clearly not rational!!