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I find my DH so rude, I just don't see how I am going to be able to live with this for the rest of our lives(76 Posts)
Maybe this sounds like a small thing but I just find my DH so rude at times, and it is impossible to ever get him to see or apologise when he's been rude as he just dismisses me with a 'whatever' or accuses me of the same behaviour when I haven't done anything remotely similar.
We have issues with our 4 year old and rude behaviour from her atm, yet DH doesn't seem to see that he models behaviour to her and that if he is rude to us she will pick up on it and see it as normal.
For example, after lunch today our 4 yr old asked if she could help tidy up and he told her to "get out of it" and "jog on". When I tried to point out to him that perhaps she's rude because he speaks to her in that way he did his usual passive-aggressive door-slamming "whatever" refusing to discuss it even when I try to discuss it with him rationally.
Our two year old now walks around saying "shut up, whatever" if someone says or does something she doesn't like.
Yesterday I went to the shops and bought a 6 pack of soft drink. Dh is sitting there this evening drinking one and then goes to the kitchen so I ask him to get one. He replies that it's the last one and he's just about to have it. I ask him very politely if I could have it as I haven't had any of them (he's drunk 5 in the last 2 days) and he's just had one and he chucks it down on the table, slams the door, sits in his chair and turns the telly up.
I try to speak to him about it, to try and explain my point of view "whatever" turns telly up.
I literally can't communicate with the man and I hate the affect the way he is is having on our dc.
I think rudeness is the wrong way to characterise the problem you have.
Your DH appears to have no respect for you or your(his) children. My guess is he doesn't talk to his bosses in this offhand 'WTF do you know?' kind of way.
Has he always been like this? I can't imagine how you could live like this. Or why you would want to. It's already affecting the behaviour of your children.
He hasn't always been this bad, no.
Tbh, I think he does talk to people at work like this. Certainly I know he shouts and swears and loses his temper at work as I know this from anecdotes he tells me.
This guy has an anger problem. He may be depressed or something, since you say he wasn't always this way.
Yes, he does seem to fly off the handle a lot. It's like there's no middle ground between him being ordinary and something pissing him off...like, that middle stage where something is annoying you but you stay calm and try to suck it up - the bit that most people seem to go through before they get properly cross, seems to be missing.
I really feel for you OP. This isn't a small thing at all.
My exH was very much like this, I couldn't have a conversation with him about anything. Instead of 'whatever' , I'd get 'subject closed' and he'd just repeat that over and over as I tried to talk.
As Katy suggested, your DH may have anger problems. That was at the root of my DH's behaviour.
If your DH is prepared to do the work to change (ie he wants to change) there is hope. But otherwise, I don't think you can live like this. I couldn't and we ended up divorced even though he kept promising to make changes, he didn't actually do anything about it.
If feel for your DC too.
It's not justfiable, but has he been under a lot of stress, could that have made him worse ? (again he should learn to manage his behaviour, but I'm just wondering)
He has been stressed with work. We were both stressed when the dc were younger.
His work has been easier since christmas though, but it's like we're in a pattern where he does or says something which I find really offensive - I don't just put up with it and try to explain why I find it unpleasant and he goes off on one about how I'm alway 'nagging' or 'telling him' off, or else it will be 'you do that/did that too' even though I haven't.
I have no idea if he'd be prepared to work on it, since he won't have a conversation with me
Is he like this absolutely all the time, or would it be possible to find a moment when you could have a conversation with him? Does he not get into trouble at work for the swearing and shouting? I agree with Tribpot it does seem like a lack of respect.
Timeismoney he sounds awful. Just completely depressing and rude and hard work. As stretchvelvet asks is there anything that's changed in his life or do you think he's got complacent, lazy and angry and just doesn't think you're worth being nice to anymore?
In which case he's an absolute shitbag and needs to get his priorities sorted out. Perhaps he needs a big shock from you - lay it on the line that his behavour is NOT acceptable to you or the kids, or you're out of there.
Good luck - don't let it go on too long though, as this kind of rude dismissive behaviour is very destructive and very bad for your children.
He isn't like it all the time, to be fair. But when he is it's just impossible to communicate with him about why the behaviour is upsetting.
I've never had a problem standing up for myself, tbh. But it's now making me to start to doubt myself - I'm sitting here thinking, perhaps he had a point and it was perfectly fine for him to drink all the drinks without letting me have them. His POV will be that he got there first, therefore it's fair game.
This is a whole separate issue, really, a lack of consideration/selfish streak. He behaves in ways that I would never dream of behaving, but seems to think it's fair game. I think this is partly his upbringing, tbh.
I would find that very hard . I think it's very easy to get into bad habits in relationships.
Is he unfailingly polite and nice to anyone in his life at the moment?
i think you need to make it clear to him that you will not tolerate it, and that you will leave if he doesn't get his act otgether and start behaving like a civilised human being. it's extremely bad for your children to have this sort of aggressive disrespect for other people modelled as normal behaviour, it is really undermining for them to have a parent who is not reliably kind to them and to their other parent. and it must utterly suck for you.
I don't know if he's polite to anyone else, tbh. He is pretty dismissive of his parents though makes some effort. But they will drive 2. 5 hours to visit and unless I am here to make them drinks he won't offer them one, which drives me mad.
He has got better at this - but will off to make them a cup of tea and not bother asking me if I want one. Then bite my head off when I ask why he didn't make me one while was making theirs (I have never turned down a cup of tea in my life and he knows this!)
Sorry, that didn't make much sense. He used to never offer them a drink, then has improved in the last 6 months or so.
But he willll not make one for me while he's at it. It's like it would never occur to him to do something for me without being asked?
But then if I do ask him to do something for me he will huff and sigh and roll his eyes and not actually give an answer. Then when I ask if he is able to do it or not I get an exasperated "yes!" it's like everything is a huge effort to be polite to me.
And yes I am very worried about the effect on our DC. That is my main concern.
'since he won't have a conversation with me'
This is the real problem, I think. Has he always been like this, or can you think of a time when he changed?
It isn't a small thing and your children are picking it up. I would try one last time to get him to talk about what is bothering him, what changes can be made etc. But if he really won't talk about it, you've got some difficult decisions to make about the way forward. I honestly don't think I could bear more than a few weeks of this kind of behaviour, particularly not if my children were copying it.
It does scream a lack of respect and care for you, which is worrying.
Meditrina - somewhere in the last two years or so, I think. He started his (more stressful) job around 2 years ago. Also, our 2.7 yr old was a terrible sleeper between 6months and 2 yrs and this had a very detrimental affect on all of us as we were so exhausted.
Meditrina - somewhere in the last two years or so, I think. He started his (more stressful) job around 2 years ago. Also, our 2.7 yr old was a terrible sleeper between 6months and 2 yrs and this had a very detrimental effect on all of us as we were so exhausted.
If DH and I weren't together DH would still have access to the DC, and it would be without me being there. So they would still be on the receiving end of this crap.
How can I sort that one? I can't, can I?
You were NOT being unreasonable re. the drinks. If nothing else, he could have poured half into a glass and you could have shared. That's a bad sign I think, you are starting to doubt yourself even though you are in the right. If this situation carries on there is a risk that you will get used to the rudeness and not notice it anymore, even if there is an underlying reason for his behaviour he needs pulling up on it right now while you still get angry about it.
no you can't change his behaviour by leaving him, if that's what you do, but your DC would know that it's not acceptable behaviour because you would not accept it, and at least they would not be living with it constantly.
Do you actually think he even likes you?
Agree, you can't change him by leaving him, but by staying you give the message to your children that you accept or even condone this kind of behaviour. And that can't be right.
Agree the right response would have been to share the drink.
I believe that how you approach the 'little' things in life says an awful lot about you in every aspect of your life. But treating your partner with such persistant disrespect is no way a 'little' thing.
Thank you all.
I need to think about what to do. I can sometimes catch him in the right mood to have a sensible conversation, I'm just not sure I can face trying right now.
He can be contrite sometimes, but it's like he will jsut apologise for the sake of it to make it all blow over. I came upstairs tonight after the huffing and door slamming over the drink because this is the third incident this week (second today) and I just couldn't face sitting in a room with him anymore.
He came upstairs and tried to be all friendly and said sorry but he genuinely didn't know what he was saying sorry for or believed he needed to. He just thought him coming and saying that would mean I went back downstairs and his behaviour could be forgotten.
OP if I were you I'd talk to him when he comes to say sorry - he obviously knows he's done something wrong even if he's too
stupid obtuse to understand exactly what.
Tell him - like you would talk to a child that A. This behaviour IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. B. He needs to change C. You are not tolerating it any more.
My dh used to try the old sulking trick on me when we first married - he'd sulk for days, it was so dreary. And it would REALLY upset me and frighten me. This was until I started to lose respect for him and couldn't really be bothered pandering to his stupid sulky moods anymore. I told him to sharpen up as I was sick of tip toeing around him for days. And you know what it WORKED - I was astonished but once he know his sulks weren't getting him anywhere they gradually ceased. Fucking idiot.
Good luck. He sounds like hard work.
You say you were both stressed when the children were younger. Did that turn you into a rude, ignorant person? Obviously I don't need an answer to this but you might want to think about it.
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't stand for my boss speaking to me in this dismissive, rude fashion - never mind the person who was supposed to love me. I don't have an suggestions (apart from LTB), but I don't know how you can put up with this kind of rude, disrepectful behaviour in your own home.
This is not a small thing at all.
Your DH is not sorry. He is not in the least contrite. He thinks he has got things nicely under control. And if you occaisionally get a little bit uppity (about say, him asserting his god-given patriarchal 'right' to drink all the fizzy drinks) then he just needs to act 'a bit more nasty' to keep you in line. Plus you will be so busy trying to meet the needs of your traumatised and confused daughters, he won't have to do much to sap any energy you have left to stand up for yourself. As domestic tyrants go, he's got it all wrapped up, hasn't he?
I agree with other posters who say that it demonstrates a total lack of respect for you. It reminds me strongly of my situation before I kicked out my STBXH. Our children were very small like yours, and he was behaving horribly towards me - 'rudeness' if you like - for a long time before we spilt up. He was creating a hostile environment for me and the children to live in, and I was being blamed for all of it. He never apologised, never took responsibility for his horrific, scary temper, never appeared to feel guilty for shouting in front of the children. What he was doing to me and what your husband is doing to you is Abuse. I lived in fear, but I didn't know it.
There are probably lots of things you do not want to acknowledge about his behaviour and what it says. Things that took me a long time to work out. Let me save you some time. Some things are very clear. Somebody who loves you does not treat you like this. Somebody who respects you does not treat you this way. The question you may be asking is 'How can someone who loves me treat me like this?' The answer is, 'They don't.'
I think you are at a stage where you need to give him an ultimatum. His behaviour is unacceptable and if he does not acknowledge it and promise to change (giving clear practical steps), then you tell him the only option left is to split up. No-one deserves to be treated the way he treats you. If - as is likely - he completely denies that he is out of order - then you know he has no intention of changing and he is probably betting that you will not push the nuclear button. That is the ultimate passive aggressive way of getting you to 'split the family up.' Expect to be blamed for that as well.
Keep standing up for yourself. Do not tolerate his appalling behaviour. It has already had a serious, negative effect on your four year old. Do not wait much longer to act. Be prepared for your ultimatum to be taken as another excuse from him to ratchet up the anger. This is his weapon and he uses it to scare you. He thinks he can scare you into backing down every time. You can take back control but it may feel incredibly big and scary. Start marshalling your own support. Get a few solicitor's numbers and start thinking about the future without him.
You sound lovely. He will exploit your tolerant, understanding, caring nature and he will count on you trying to smooth everything out for your children's sake. You are covering for him all the time. Call his bluff. Don't let them suffer any longer - they are being blighted too.
Do talk to friends and family in RL - they need to know what is going on. You don't say whether you've talked to anyone else.
Sorry to be brutal. I mean it in the spirit of true sisterly support. You deserve a whole lot better than this.
What poppy said.
He may want to end the relationship by pushing you into making that choice. Then he can go and tell everyone he was the victim of your bad behaviour.
But actually sod it, why waste time trying to second guess the motives for his behaviour? You do not treat someone like that if you have any love or respect for them. And a relationship without love and respect is hellish.
What claudia, poppy and sowornout said. Particularly sowornout
I think Hermioine makes a very good point! why the face?
I thought she was simply pointing out that the op has been through exactly the same stressful crap that her husband has... but it didn't turn her into a bellend. Why should 'stress' be any kind of excuse or reasonfor persistantly treating your other half like this?
We can all have bad days and need to let off steam but his behaviour is not a one off.
How many children did you say you had ?
This is beyond rudeness. This behavior is abusive. To you, and your children.
Does he treat other people rudely (shop assistants, waiters, waitresses) when you are out and about or does he save his poor behaviour for behind closed doors? Is he as bad with men as with women?
I find it strange that he wouldn't offer you a cup of tea when making tea for his parents- didn't they comment on this? It would strike my family as very odd behaviour.
I am wondering how he can get away with aggressive and rude behaviour at work- it seems very unprofessional. I can't think of any job where it would be acceptable.
The whole thing sounds awful and letting your DC witness and learn from it is so sad. They will not endear themselves to others if they parrot it at school/nursery. The other parents will run a mile.
I don't know what the answer is- counselling? Big discussions at home? Getting your parents/his parents involved? Parenting course? Seeing GP for help with anger management?
I'm going to ask the question noone else has....
What is his redeeming feature? why are you still with this man, being treated like this?
Does he have a very big salary
or penis- LOL
Joking aside, I can't see why you'd want to stay married to him.
His redeeming features?
He is generally very good with our DC. They adore him, and when he's not being like the way I describe in the OP he is great with them. He spent the whole of last weekend playing in the snow with them.
He is not always this way. Sometimes he is kind, and fun.
I think there is something to be salvaged from our relationship, but we've fallen into a pattern where I 'nag' him and it puts his back up.
What did his parents saying about him not making me tea? I doubt they would have noticed. They are a bit strange, really. They don't have a lot in the way of social skills or empathy with others.
I guess it wouldn't be impossible to leave him. I don't work at the moment (which I think is part of the problem) but could go back to work. My parents are involved and supportive but not local. They are wealthy and generous and helped us with a deposit on our house (though there is nothing legally in place to say that the 25% deposit is mine).
We have 2 dc.
This is often the response - he is good with the children.
But unless he is showing the children he loves and respects YOU he is not good with the children is he? He is setting a horrible, toxic example, which they will carry into adulthood and possibly visit on their own partners.
I wish I could remember the name of the psychologist who was asked what is the most important thing a father could do for his children - 'love their mother' was the response. It was a radio 4 programme, years ago. That has resonated and stuck with me ever since.
I am not saying LTB if you genuinely think things could be salvaged. but something has to change, quite quickly.
It sounds like he hasn't had good teachers in the manners/empathy department if the ILs are as you describe. That won't help the situation.
I second the fact he isn't a good father unless he treats the mother of his children with respect and kindness (and I would expect the same high standards of mothers with regards to their children's fathers too).
It sounds like you both need some help to sort this relationship out. Personally I would fight tooth and nail if I wanted to salvage my marriage- do you want to do that or has it gone too far?
Ditto He is generally very good with our DC - it's is positively weird how many OPs with miserable bastards for partners say this about them.
I think that the DCs might, however young, be a bit scared or wary of the DP and act extra nicely towards him because of this, this is read by the DM as his being good with the DCs. I could be wrong but my DF was an alcy and we kids were positively angelic, we just didn't want to aggravate DF and felt DM had a miserable life and didn't want to make it worse.
And that is not healthy, not now and not in the long term (believe me).
I would speak to a solicitor in your position OP, and research how things would be if you divorced. Once you are accustomed to the idea it would be much easier to plan for the future and decide whether or not you can put up with this or not.
I've been in a relationship where i just couldn't communicate reasonably with them. After four years i had to just accept it wasn't going to work. I spent a lot of my time not understanding why our conversations always turned into arguments and wondering what i had said wrong and double guessing. In the end i had to accept that his way of communicating and handling simple situations was dysfunctional and there was nothing i could do to change it.
It doesn't matter who was entitled to the last drink. In a normal healthy exchange he would have offered it to you or suggested you share or something else normal, not smashed it down on the table and sulked. That's the behaviour of a child who uses bad behaviour to get their own way.
The other things you describe sound like a failure to accept others peoples ideas and the idea that he could ever take advice or accept responsibility for something. A suggestion you make he instantly takes as criticism. I had an ex like that too! (pick them don't i!) and he had an anger problem and turned violent. I read somewhere that failure to ever accept blame is a sign of an abusive man (or woman). That particular ex once phoned me at work shouting down the phone at me because he had burnt my top ironing! Apparently it was my fault because he had been trying to do me a favour! A normal person would have just said "Sorry i burnt your top."
Its interesting that you say that his parents don't have much social skills or empathy. Neither does he. I wonder if its a learnt thing or something else. For eg my brother i believe is on the autistic spectrum (not sure where abouts) and he lacks those things. He is undiagnosed but its pretty obvious. So i wonder if there is something like that, or if he just never learnt it from his parents (although as an adult now you'd think he'd be figuring it out) or if he's just an arsehole!
From what you say about him apologizing but not seeming to know why it sounds like he just doesn't get it, like a little child.
Not that it really matters i suppose because if he's awful to live with you shouldn't have to put up with it.
And the 'whatever' attitude when you say something is just a nasty passive-aggressive way to make YOU feel you are the nagger/ difficult one/ complainer when in fact it is 100% them - and it is a total wind up (because you're views and anger are being dismissed) and he bluddy knows it!
should be 'your views and anger'.
Thank you all. He's been ok the last few days.
What's been said about the autistic spectrum - I have thought before that his parents (or at the very least, his Dad) are on there somewhere. I didn't want to say that and be shouted down for trying to make some kind of diagnosis that I'm not qualified to make.
DH has a brother with (if it's possible to believe) even poorer social skills. His brother and his Dad both have a temper.
His mother doesn't, but she seems to only experience life in a very narrow way - for e.g. she doesn't understand how anyone could be considered family unless it's via marriage or blood. She doesn't understand an adopted child is a son or daughter to their parents, or that an unmarried couple who have been together for very many years would be as devastated to lose one another than a married couple. Does that make sense?
Anyway, I only say all this to try to highlight what his upbringing has been like, not to excuse. He is not just like them though. They are racist and ignorant - he is not, and deplores their nasty views.
What's been said about the autistic spectrum - I have thought before that his parents (or at the very least, his Dad) are on there somewhere. I didn't want to say that and be shouted down for trying to make some kind of diagnosis that I'm not qualified to make.
Yeah i thought id be shouted down too
Hmm, this isn't like AS because
- he accuses you of showing the aggressive behaviour he's just shown
- he's angry that you want to share the box of drinks: he feels entitled to have everything to himself. I think a person with ASD would more likely be mystified that you're upset, but then comply
- he shouts and swears and loses his temper quickly, and this has developed recently
- he's selfish and thinks whoever takes first should get (horribly like a spoilt child )
- you're starting to doubt yourself...
... all these behaviours are very typical in abusive men, and not really typical for people with ASD (IMHO).
His behaviour is unacceptable, and abusive. He makes the right noises by saying he deplores his parents views, but he's been dreadful to you and is setting an atrocious example to his children. it's a pretty awful situation for you.
Ladywordy - sorry, i think you've misunderstood. I didn't say i thought dh was on the spectrum, i was talking about his parents.
And no, he doesn't 'make the right noises' he is vehemently anti racist. Sorry, i think you're reading something other into my words than is correct.
yes you did, I'm sorry; and I withdraw my choice of words. They sound narrow minded, more than anything, but you know them well and are in a better position to judge.
So if you look back, how much of his behaviour is new and how much has always been there but perhaps in a milder form?
If his behaviour is new then it might be his work, some insecurity about coping with it or something, and he is taken it out on you, perhaps resents your 'easier' life.
Heart to heart talking is what is needed but easier said than done. Best of luck OP.
timeismoney My dad behaved in a very similar way to your DH. He treated my mum like a doormat.
The chilling thing is this; I didn't realise until I was an adult. I thought his behaviour was normal!
I thought that was what family life was like, The dad was 'in charge' and mum and kids revolve around him and his moods.
In my adult life I've become involved with many emotional abusers and gaslighters.
I don't mean for this post to scare you, but even if your OP is 'good' with the children by spending time playing with them, the way he treats you will affect them more than you realise.
Ladywordy, I'm not in the mood for an argument (even if you are) but I didn't say I thought DH was on the spectrum.
I said " re: the autistic spectrum - I have thought before that his parents (or at the very least, his Dad) are on there somewhere."
Fuckadoodle, I don't know what's 'new' and what's just more exaggerated. I need to have a think really, and sort out if I think this is who he has always been, or whatever.
I don't know..
Ladywordy. Quite a few of those examples you gave of why he can't have asd (not that the op has said she thinks he has) are things my brother does who is on the spectrum. You can have asd and also have an individual personality. Their personalities vary just like everyone else.
Actually the getting angry about small things is pretty common.
You make a lot of excuses for him timeismoney.
Slamming doors is not "passive aggressive." It's "aggressive aggressive." As is slamming drinks on the table.
Not getting you a drink when he is getting himself one is breathtakingly selfish. Saying you can't have the last can of a six pack you bought, because he intends to drink it himself, when he has just had one is . . . well, I can hardly find the words.
Lastly, he is not a good dad if he - or his behaviour - is bringing up your 2 year old DD to go around saying "Shut up, whatever" to people. This will be affecting her social life already.
LOL @ a "great Dad" teaching his children to be obnoxious brats.
The things he said to your four year old are appalling.
He's a shitty parent and a complete prick.
Who said he was a great Dad?
I don't appreciate the tone of your post, a thinginyourlife.
I assume you're trying to tell it like it is, or something. Doesn't negate the need to be polite though.
You did as he was good with the children, but I agree with others who have said that playing nicely with them doesn't make up for how they see him act, especially towards you.
You did. You said he was good with the children.
Paraphrasing that into 'a great dad' is not unreasonable.
I've sent you a PM, timeismoney, with a link to another MN thread which you might find helpful.
timeismoney getting arsey with posters taking the time to read your thread and comment on your situation (at your request) is not helpful to you at all
Rudeness - a fun game the whole family can play
You said he was good with the children. Paraphrasing that into 'a great dad' is not unreasonable.
Actually, it is. Good is not great.
Marking place. This situation sounds very familiar but I don't have time to read right now and don't want to lose the thread.
Blimey. Is this thread about nit picking and missing the point?
The OP actually said
"He is generally very good with our DC. They adore him, and when he's not being like the way I describe in the OP he is great with them. He spent the whole of last weekend playing in the snow with them."
Paraphrasing that into 'a great dad' is not so wide of the mark as to warrant a snippy 'who said that and I don't like your tone' from the OP.
But knock yourself out. Let's miss the main point that his occasional attempts at good humour hardly justify praising his parenting.
The point is to say 'he is generally good with the children' is just not true at all. He is not providing them with a firm bedrock of a warm loving home, where the adults treat each other with respect and kindness.
This stuff really matters, please trust me on this. I pay my (considerable ) mortgage by being provided with a never ending stream of fucked up adults and children who grew up in damaging environments. Only the strongest survive. Otherwise the cycle repeats ad infinitum.
I think the op is just trying to give a completely view of what he's like and the good bits and bad bits, she's not saying that the good bits outweigh the bad.
I agree with fuckadoodle. Some situations are complex.
I don't agree situations are complicated at all. You either love each other and show it (most of the time), or you don't.
If you don't, you have to both want to work together to change it. If ione or both of you aren't willing or able to change you have to decide whether you put up with it or get out.
I always read on these threads - he is good with the children. But if he is not good with you, that means almost bugger all. So yes, don't damn the man as 100% awful, but never kid yourself about the impact his behaviour is likely to be having.
Spero said what I was trying to.
When 'he can be a good father' is generally the only thing you can come up with when asked what on earth are his good point which justify a relationship with him, it is not a good sign. Especially when all the bad points already listed include appalling behaviour being modelled for dh who are already mimicking the bad stuff
The fact that the op immediately turned on the person who queried her use of good father suggests that she is not really seeing how badly her DHs behaviour is contaminating the home.
Pag, the clue was in
"when he's not being like the way I describe in the OP"
Yes. But a good father was still the thing reached for as a good point when it is patently untrue.
So by all means we can split hairs about whether good sometimes can be reasonably paraphrased into great in a very brief post.
But let us not pretend that it is doing anything to help the OP see that her DH is a dreadful influence within the home.
It is petty, pedantic and an unhelpful diversion.
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