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tomorrow I hand over my children to the OW for the first time

(1000 Posts)
chocoreturns Sat 26-Jan-13 22:44:42

I don't know what else to say, just need a hand hold tonight.

OW and STBXH are now house hunting 15 mins from my house, and spending EOW with my baby and DS. They have been lying about her being there right up until today. I finally reached the end of my tether, while listening to DS1 tell me all about house hunting with OW all day, having been told he was with only his dad and granny.

So I called STBXH and told him I'm over it, it's time to stop pretending I'm an ogre who can't bear to meet her, and to bring her to handover. If she's going to be on my doorstep and having my children in her home, I need to know who she is. She took my baby DS2 swimming with his dad today - it was his first swim. I am far beyond anger now and I'm just sad about it all sad

Not sure what to say to her, but I would like to take her to one side when STBXH is putting the kids in the car, and say look - I know you and I aren't going to be friends, but my children are my priority, and I need to know they are safe and happy when they're not with me. If you ever don't know what to do, or you're on your own with them and you think they need me, please know that it's ok to call me and I'll be fine with you. Then give her my number.

Is that mad? Or sensible and mature?

This is a moment I need a mumsnet straw poll sad

kickassangel Sat 26-Jan-13 22:46:43

It sounds sensible and mature but I have never been in your position. Hope it goes OK for you

ecuse Sat 26-Jan-13 22:49:07

Sensible and mature. How it goes down will depend on whether she is too.

GroupieGirl Sat 26-Jan-13 22:51:03

That sounds very sensible indeed. Good luck!

Wereonourway Sat 26-Jan-13 22:51:34

I think it's bloody marvellous of you op, very sensible and brave.

I can't imagine how you are feeling, how old are the dc??

ProphetOfDoom Sat 26-Jan-13 22:51:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ratbagcatbag Sat 26-Jan-13 22:53:26

Sounds really sensible. If it helps (or maybe not) ten years ago I was the OW, my now DH ex obviously found it difficult to start with, but ten years down the line she appreciates what I do for her ds, and she is one of my best friends now. Maybe not for you, but if you start off being reasonable (although you owe them nothing) that it makes it more likely she will respond maturely too.

NippyDrips Sat 26-Jan-13 22:54:28

I agree with all the above. Your children are very lucky to have a mother who is ready to put them first to that extent.

MrsTomHardy Sat 26-Jan-13 22:54:45

Sounds sensible to me.
I have been in a similar position (not OW but new gf) and I insisted I met her after xp had gone behind my back and they had gone out for the day with my 12 month old DS after telling me he wouldn't introduce DS to her for at least 6 months (he told me this the week before the day out) ...I was livid...
But she did come to my door, and it was fine if a little awkward.

VBisme Sat 26-Jan-13 22:55:07

It sounds incredibly sensible and mature, I was never the OW, but I'd have liked DHs ex to have that kind of chat with me.

gwenniebee Sat 26-Jan-13 22:55:37

"Gracious" was the word that sprung to mind with me, too, Schmaltzing. I feel really sad about you missing your baby's first swim. It sounds like you are being incredibly selfless about this. Good luck.

chocoreturns Sat 26-Jan-13 22:56:31

my two DS are 2, and just 7mo. They had their affair when I was pregnant with ds2 so he is a baby despite it being a year now since we split. I know she's prob destined for some hard work as a stepmum so I want to do everything I can to ensure my babies are happy and safe. It's sickeningly hard sad

tribpot Sat 26-Jan-13 22:56:35

It will be wilfully misinterpreted by them, choco, because they are not sensible and mature.

They have bullied you into accepting this by simply ignoring the restrictions you had wanted placed around ds2's early contact with his dad. You're right in that there's no point fighting it but you also need to fight the tendency to be controlled by him because of your sense of guilt or desire to make peace.

I would limit yourself to making sure in front of her that your ex has all your contact details and then telling ds1 to have a lovely day.

And if you happened to be thinking of saying 'perhaps you'd like to shag my husband in this house of mine as well?' know that the whole of MN would stand behind you and cheer if you actually did it grin

chocoreturns Sat 26-Jan-13 23:00:24

haha trib you just made me actually smile about it grin I shall put your straw in the 'mad' pile. I've missed your advice x

I think it is gracious and poised and I am very afraid that tribpot is right. I would want to do it, I think. . . heartbreaking .

DoubleYew Sat 26-Jan-13 23:16:44

They sound like dicks, lying to you. I wouldn't try and talk to her on her own as it will be twisted into something else. I bet he will be careful it doesn't happen incase you had the chance to tell her some home truths, as he's probably been lying to her too.

Have you got a contact agreement? You can ask for a clause that if ex is not available to look after them they should be with you (right of first refusal). She shouldn't be on her own with them imo, maybe in the future one day if it lasts but not at 2 and 7mo.

Good luck. I've chosen not to meet her as I think it's more for ex's benefit than mine.

chocoreturns Sat 26-Jan-13 23:20:14

I think I will do it, not because I have any evidence that it will be well received but because I want to be true to myself. And because I think it is the right thing to do.

I guess I have reached a point where I know that absolutely nothing I would like to happen is going to, so all I have left is my integrity - and I may as well do the best I can to be the kind of person I want myself and my children to be, regardless of the circumstance.

Obviously the temptation to call her every name under the sun is going to be violently strong. But while I may not be able to shame him, I think part of me is hoping I will be able to shame her a little too, by being a better person than either of them are capable of.

chocoreturns Sat 26-Jan-13 23:22:04

It wouldn't be properly on our own, he will be in earshot, but will have his hands full...

this just isn't going to be a good experience no matter which way I imagine it.

BerylStreep Sat 26-Jan-13 23:38:21

No advice, just a hand hold.

At least you aren't running around dropping off and sitting in restaurants any more.

tribpot Sun 27-Jan-13 00:03:13

I will assume by 'mad' you mean soundly-based and sensible, choco wink

My only concern is that it will be twisted in such a way as to create more drama and work for you. Absolutely being polite-but-distant is the right approach to take, friendly enough to reassure ds1 and so that you can know in yourself you've behaved irreproachably.

But they will be looking to use this, in the power play. And it's very hard for you to opt out of that entirely as a conscientious objector. My concern is that your words will be thrown back as indicating that you are seeking to undermine her step-parenting at the very first opportunity and blah-blah-bloody-blah. As you may have gathered, your ex isn't too fussed about what's actually true. Keep your powder dry; there's worse to come with this pair. "To say nothing, especially when speaking, is half the art of diplomacy." (Will Durant).

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Sun 27-Jan-13 00:26:57

I think it is a good plan. It won't be easy though. The situation is what it is and you have to make the best of it for your DCs sake. Over time it will I hope get better.

I would not make a big deal of it (outwardly at least). I would not say anything like 'I know we will never be friends...' Just be polite and 'neutral' (IYSWIM) She may end up playing a significant part in your DC's life's and the less confrontation the better.

It really is best if you can all at least be polite to one another. I read threads on here where there is so much hatred between people in these situations even years after couples have seperated.

(obviously, it is completely understandable to feel nothing but contempt for them - nobody would blame you for that )

Good luck. I hope it goes well. I really respect you for trying to do the right thing.

In years to come, you will be glad that you were gracious about it. Because there may well come a time when you feel happy that your DC have an additional adult in their lives who loves them. Additional adults who are basically nice people (obviously this doesn't apply when they are abusive or neglectful) are always a benefit for DC.

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sun 27-Jan-13 00:33:12

I think you are being very sensible and mature. Remembering it is your DC's that are the most important helps.

I can understand how hard it must be to cope with, its something I am dreading with me and Ex, but I know it is inevitable, and hope that I am as gracious when the time comes.

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 27-Jan-13 00:46:59

OMG I think you are awesome.

But that is because I have no dignity and would want to reach down and rip out their hearts for the swimming thing alone.

Just saying could be a little overwrought

or not

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 01:10:06

Well, I am completely unable to sleep tonight, what a surprise. Having decided to be gracious my brain keeps rehearsing the alternatives...

Currently, opening the door with the DC in another room, and icily suggesting she apologises to me for her behaviour seems to be my furious subconcious' favourite option.

Alternatively, beaming at her as I hand over my baby and saying 'I do hope you remember this moment when you are pregnant with his third child, you vile bitch'.

It would certainly be easier if I didn't want to give her a metaphorical punch in the gut. I suspect that getting through the 3 minutes the whole episode will take, and NOT being an utter bitch myself is going to be UNBELIEVABLY hard. <practicing smiling in a distant and detatched manner while thinking fuck them both> sad

Am off to re-read my blog post from last year ('guess how much I love you') because I can't switch off this angry, angry voice in my head no matter what I try.

Thank you for the hand holding sad I really need it tonight.

LineRunner Sun 27-Jan-13 01:14:18

Are you ok?

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 01:20:14

not really sad feel a bit weepy and upset. I know I can't change anything about this shit situation. Everything I've done to try and make the best of it has been taken for granted up til now and I'm only meeting her because I'm so sick of being lied to, still.

When he moves here he wants to see them all weekend, overnight and in the week. It's not going to happen because he's a useless shit, but it still feels awful. I have never felt so helpless in my life. There's nothing I can do to change the fact I am treated with utter disrespect by my childrens father and that just wears me down.

LineRunner Sun 27-Jan-13 01:27:26

I've been through it and I know it wears you down to be the grown-up all the time.

I wish I had had MN when I was going through it. There are such marvellous people here to turn to.

You may need to just hand over to your ExH, for a while. That's not unreasonable, you know. The children's relationship is with him. He's the one who needs to tell you if there is a problem.

My ExH's OW was gone within 2 years.

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 01:36:38

But he just lies - about where they are, what they do, who they are with sad I would NEVER have imagined handing my baby over to someone I didn't trust one iota before this happened. Now, regular as clockwork, I have to do that very thing. Send them off god knows where doing god knows what. He doesn't contact us at all 12 days out of 14, so any notion he is an 'equal' parent is nonsense - he's a stranger who sees our baby 8 hours a fortnight, and for me, those hours are a black hole. I don't trust him and he does nothing to rebuild my trust at all.

I am sure that OW won't last forever, but it kills me in the meantime he prioritises her relationship with our baby over his own.

thank you for replying, I'm sorry I'm all over the place tonight

nametakenagain Sun 27-Jan-13 01:44:16

As a mum and a stepmum, I have some idea of what you're going through from a bit of a different view. I have not had to hand over my kids but I went out of my way to be accessible to my DPs XW cos I was looking after her children every other weekend and in her shoes I would want to know me. I would have appreciated her taking the position you propose. I wasnt involved in the split incidentally.

LineRunner Sun 27-Jan-13 01:45:41

I do absolutely get what you're saying.

And I can promise you that this phase will not last, and it will become better for you.

Ready for bed and some kip? smile It will get better. See you here tomorrow?

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 01:49:02

I'll be back tomorrow, for sure. Baby no doubt will need a feed in a bit anyway so I know I should try and get my head down.

(doesn't help that the rain is lashing the skylight as if the sky is falling in tonight, bloody noisy!)

LineRunner Sun 27-Jan-13 01:50:18

Me too with the rain! Take care and sleep tight. x

tumbletumble Sun 27-Jan-13 01:56:28

Hi Choco, I remember your thread. You have been amazing throughout. I'm up late tonight, so available for a bit of hand holding. Hope it goes OK tomorrow.

Skyebluesapphire Sun 27-Jan-13 01:59:11

I get what you are saying and while I know your situation is slightly different to mine, it is horrible handing them over . My XH has his best mates wife over every weekend that DD is there and they play happy families together.

Also, I can't even trust him to feed her properly and have to request every time she goes there that he baths her because if I don't ask, he doesn't do it! These things should be common sense surely!

And XH spends his time with DD texting OW so not taking any notice of DD. Also he can't even be bothered to ring DD once a week yet makes arrangements to see OW repeatedly...

If its upsetting you this much, then maybe you are not ready yet to do what you suggested?

The only way I would want to greet OW in your position would be with a sledgehammer... But you are a bigger person than me.

All these things prove where the priorities lie and sadly it's not with their children.

Will be thinking of you, but only do what you are comfortable with.

saffronwblue Sun 27-Jan-13 02:07:14

Thinking of you choco. You are so brave and strong and this is a horrible situation - I know you will manage it fine. She is a contemptible bitch ( and this is not a word I ever use about other women) but you will feel better the more dignity and class that you show them. The main thing is the safety and security of your DC and you show that front and centre.
Maybe don't say the bit about never being friends because things could escalate from there - just stay calm and cool.
Hope you are now in a deep sleep. xx

DoingItForMyself Sun 27-Jan-13 02:11:10

Hello

Not sure you need my advice as I know you'll do the mature and sensible thing, you always do. And you know twunt will twist it or ignore it, he always does!

It must be heart-breaking to have to accept this situation, but you have the wisdom to know you can't fight it, all you can do is try not to give him any more ammunition. I second the person who said don't say"we'll never be friends" as that acknowledges her seedy part in your marriage breakdown and gives her credibility.

I would say that you know your precious DSs are spending time with her and (especially given how young they are) you need to know that they are in responsible hands - especially swimming, OMG I barely trust myself swimming with 2 toddlers let alone a total stranger!

But my hand is here for you to hold and I want you to imagine us all stood behind you with our pompoms while you're speaking to her - you have the weight of the MN crew behind you. She has him.

Midwife99 Sun 27-Jan-13 04:14:55

Absolutely I second doing it - we are all here behind you in the morning (rain woke me up too!). What time are they coming? This must be so hard - as ever you are putting your children's needs first & giving them that reassurance & confidence that it's ok to go, with your smile & grace (with gritted teeth no doubt) You are the grown up, you are the mother, they are pond life. Your boys are so lucky to have a mother like you. thanks

mathanxiety Sun 27-Jan-13 04:36:51

I am thinking of you, you brave and decent soul. I would have been very inclined to greet the OW in your life with the business end of a fillet knife

My DCs are older than yours are but almost the whole life of my youngest DD has been dominated by the fallout from exH's attempts to make up the rules he wants us all to live by or pretend the rules everyone else abides by don't apply to him. It is indeed gut wrenching to see the DCs' lives affected by that but my hope is that karma will one day kick in where it hurts .

Do the best with your twelve days. Be yourself, and live the best life you possibly can. Your children will always know who is their mother. With any luck, your exH will run through this OW and will be on to the next and may even lose interest in the children. Though this may sound bad it is often actually a blessing in disguise.

CheerfulYank Sun 27-Jan-13 05:01:58

Oh honey. sad

I'm not familiar with your story but I think you are extraordinarily brave. I think it's a good idea. Then, like you said, at least you can hold on to the knowledge that you behaved graciously, no matter how others have done.

Best of luck!

Worley Sun 27-Jan-13 05:07:53

chocoreturns - I am laying here awake worrying as I'm in almost same position. this is the first night exdp has taken our children to his new apartment with his new gf. I feel sick. he hasn't even told the dc yet he has a gf (although he has announced his new relationship status for all to see in fb) although she wasnt an ow.. he has lied about her. he never told us he had a gf and as he worked with her he had introduced her as a work colleague.. only a few months ago we were talking about getting back together and him moving closer again (he lives 40 miles away) and then suddenly he's moving in with her and they have been an item for months...
she doesn't know he's been cheating (I feel used as I didn't know about her - or I wouldn't have been considering trying again)
anyway... I wouldn't be staying as calm as you and have already had some spiteful slanging matches tonight as it is...
she may feel my rath tomorrow if I havnt calmed down by then.. even though it's not her fault I think she should know what he's done again.

just,checking in from a nightfeed to hold your hand through this final stretch. I think you have to treat them like a hostile interrogating barrister who is ready and eager to misconstrue , therefore say as little as you. can to get your. point across.

it fucking sucks that you are the one being the bigger person here , but you are right that your sons(and you!) deserve it. They never will but sometimes people are collateral beneficiaries of good things. better that your love for your DS s overflows to the benefit of these turds than your contempt for these turds should ever touch and harm your DS s lives .
wishing you love and luck. x

My DC's are older so somewhat different but I kind of have similar feelings to you. Distance has meant that I have not met OW but in my case I have often felt that she is more sensible than XH who is useless and would like to see her/speak with her. OK she did conduct a long affair with XH at a time when one of the DC's was v ill but I have kind of got over that.

I think it's brilliant to be gracious if you can do that. As people have said it may well be misinterpreted. In my case I am clearly labeled as the bunkers XW so it certainly would be misinterpreted.

If you can do what you say that's great. An alternative might be to be polite and gracious and say little this time and see how it goes. Your graciousness will speak volumes in any case. I don't fully know the back story but if there is any history of drama and XH being volatile I might stay quiet on the first occasion.

Will be thinking of you today.

Lueji Sun 27-Jan-13 07:18:33

You don't have to meet her and you don't have to hand out your baby to her.

You hand your DC to your ex, who is responsible for what happens to them.
He has your number.
All you have to do is tell him that he can give her your number and she should call you should something happen to the children.

But, what if he left the children in care of a child care facility, a nanny, or whatever? They'd contact him first, and then he'd contact you.

You can acknowledge that she has been there and tell him to stop lying, but you don't have to expose yourself to her.
And he is responsible for the people he introduces in his children's lives.

struwelpeter Sun 27-Jan-13 07:36:34

Keep your powder dry. I like the idea of the diplomacy quote, don't say anything they can latch onto. You need to channel icy cool with a clear sense of disdain. Is there something you can half fix on behind them. Act disinterested, say hello and then do the sorting out of the DCs with the ex.
You may have to see her again, or perhaps it will go tits up when he brings another one into their home for a shag.

And have huge cushion to beat into a senseless pulp afterwards, scream shout, and have a treat lined up for afterwards or something to take your mind off them.

Finallygotaroundtoit Sun 27-Jan-13 07:44:28

Agree that it's ex you hand over to - not OW.

I get what you're trying to get across to her (that the DC are your priority) but bypassing unreliable ex is sadly not the way to do it.

'Taking her to one side' for a quiet word may alarm her and she is unlikely to listen to whatever you say and both will def misconstrue it. Just say to both that if there are any problems they can call you.

Good luck, these are for you thanks

tribpot Sun 27-Jan-13 07:46:17

I find the fact they're moving to near where you are rather disturbing, choco - given the lack of anything remotely resembling actual parental responsibility having been demonstrated to date. You must feel hunted.

MusicForTheMasses Sun 27-Jan-13 07:52:08

Choco you've had tonnes of really good advice and I know that, you being you, dignity will be the order of the day. You've done the right thing calling an end to this latest lie and letting them know that you know. Either give your number directly to her, or as suggested, tell twunt to give it to her. Remain strong and then have your scream, shout and a little weep (that's little!) when they have buggered off. We will all be here for you.

You know I think this, as do many other people on MN, but you are an absolutely amazing woman with a strength and dignity beyond many of us. Try and find just a little bit more of that today, then come back on here and call him all the names under the sun.

If it makes you feel the slightest bit better I bet you she won't have slept either, thinking about meeting you, as you will always be the entity she is comparing herself to (if only subconciously) and Mummy to two wonderful handsome boys. xxxx

PS You have to feel a bit sorry for her, she's got to deal with Twunt 7 days a week, you've got rid of the creep! That's punishment enough lol ;-) xxxx

CuttedUpPear Sun 27-Jan-13 07:57:54

I feel for you choco. I can't imagine having to hand over my 7 month old child, I'm not surprised it is killing you.

What time are you going to be there? I would like to give you extra strong good thoughts at that time.

BouncyPenguin Sun 27-Jan-13 08:00:14

Well done OP. You are doing the right thing. It will have a knock on effect. Once you X sees that you are 'OK' with OW he won't feel the need to lie as much. Be direct with OW about the fact that handing over baby to someone you don't know is difficult and that you just need to be in the know on how the kids are and where they are daily. Ask her to see it from your perspective. My DSis did this for the sake of her DS and her own sanity. But she kept on at her X until he text or called every evening that he has DS and said she had to know where he was (ie which part of the country).

nkf Sun 27-Jan-13 08:00:36

I wish I had done the same. We are several years in and I have not met his wife. My children spend a lot of time there. I daresay I could try to arrange a meeting now but I haven't. It makes sense for people who are looking after children not to be total strangers. You're a braver woman than me. Good luck.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 27-Jan-13 08:04:22

Don't talk to her....I am with tribpot. The less you say the better.

BouncyPenguin Sun 27-Jan-13 08:06:32

I should add that OW will soon find herself in the same position as My DSis X ended up having child with OW and then she realised what a shit bloke he is and they split up. So she will at some point have to hand her child over to him and is new woman (whoever that 'lucky' lady is) and not know where he is or what this woman is like!

ProphetOfDoom Sun 27-Jan-13 08:13:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NeverBeenToMe Sun 27-Jan-13 08:22:40

Another one wishing you well.

SpringyReframed Sun 27-Jan-13 08:24:56

Choco I have no advice but just wanted to say good luck with it today. I feel for you, and will be one of the many MN'rs standing behind you. It is shit but this day will pass. flowers

AngelinaCongleton Sun 27-Jan-13 08:31:05

Good luck today op. I hope you are rewarded for your maturity and strength in those long run. I'm sure you will be.

Hope it goes ok today - I wouldn't say anything, they are both stuck up their own arses so far that they won't hear you.

MusicForTheMasses Sun 27-Jan-13 08:39:51

Until they are at your door and you actually see them face to face I think it's difficult to say just what you will do and say. You'll review the situation in that split second and know what to do then, so try not to be too structured in what you are thinking at the moment.

Whatever you do, don't do, say or don't say we are all here. xx

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 08:41:09

30 mins and counting... I feel sick.

I have taken on board everyone's advice. I think I do need to say something, so this is what I've decided:

When they arrive, the children will be with my mum in the living room (door closed) and I'll say this to them both together.

"I am quite well aware of how often OW has been spending time with the children [there has been legal stuff going on which they have completely ignored and lied about, so I do want to address it]. I do not appreciate being lied to, and should think we've all had quite enough of pretending OW doesn't exist. As you (to OW) are going to be spending time with the children every time STBXH has them, I expect him to give you my number. (He needs to hear that bit!)

"My priority is, and always has been their safety and happiness. I want to make it perfectly clear now that if you (OW) are ever concerned about them, don't know what to do, think they need me, or they just want to speak to me, then you can call. I won't make it difficult or unpleasant for you if you do.

"I think it's important that you both hear this and there is no confusion about this issue. I also expect to know roughly where they are when they are with you, and am always willing to extend the same courtesy to STBXH."

Then I'll go get the children and do the handover bit super fast and cheerfully.

Nervous doesn't begin to cover it. I hope she's cacking her pants. sad

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 08:41:49

lol cross post musicforthemasses, I know you're right but I like to have a plan!!

ImagineJL Sun 27-Jan-13 08:45:26

Good luck

If you're needing to talk yourself out of telling OW what you really think, remember you're doing it for your children.

My parents divorced when I was two, and my father went on to have 3 more wives after that. One was lovely, the other two weren't, but by far the most upsetting aspect of it for me and my brother was the fact that my parents hated each other, and made no secret of the fact. When I was with one of them, I felt I couldn't mention the other one, so I was constantly on edge.

I remember once we were at my father's house with his second wife, and unbeknown to us they were in the process of splitting up. They had a blazing row, and that was a probably the most upsetting time of all.

I guess what I'm saying is that kids can adapt to all kinds of people and situations, but seeing the people they love fighting is very distressing for them. So I think maintaining calm dignity and cordiality is a good plan.

activatetherhythm Sun 27-Jan-13 08:46:18

Nearly crying reading your posts OP. Can't imagine how hard. I think what you have planned to say is absolutely right. Thinking of you. X

MusicForTheMasses Sun 27-Jan-13 08:46:30

Choco Best to have one, just be ready to change it if you need to. I know you are quick witted enough to do that! ;-) xxx

oh, you are brilliant Choco thanks

Jemma1111 Sun 27-Jan-13 08:51:52

Choco

I think that sounds good what you are going to say to them , however I would advise you to maybe change one bit .

Instead of saying to the OW " I expect ex to give you my number " , I would instead put her on the spot with a pen and paper or your phone handy and ask HER directly what her phone number is and make her give it to you there and then .

That way you can call/ text either of them when you want to check how your children are .

Good luck !

ChasedByBees Sun 27-Jan-13 08:52:30

That sounds really sensible and a lovely thing to do for your children's happiness. Hope it goes as well as possible.

BerylStreep Sun 27-Jan-13 08:56:26

I tend to agree with Trib - I wouldn't say anything to her directly other than 'hello'.

I'm a bit hmm about them house hunting near you. What happened when you said you weren't going to do all the drop offs & pick ups?

TBH it sounds like he still has you in his sights, and is trying to punish you, in which case you need to try your best to seem unaffected and disinterested.

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 09:00:10

I might end up only saying hello. But I tend to think that if I don't say this the first time, it will never get said. So its better to get on with it.

In all probability she's not as much of a shit as him - she's been sucked in by the mr wonderful and charming act that most abusive men have at first.

Shit doorbell...

Themobstersknife Sun 27-Jan-13 09:03:23

Hope it has gone well.

BearPear Sun 27-Jan-13 09:10:11

You sound so brave and dignified choco, I hope it wasn't too painful for you.

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 09:14:22

fuck. Not quite as I planned, but there you go. I did the dignified bit and then she butted in telling me how tricky it is for her and that she can't be expected to know what to say.

To which I added -

"you have absolutely NO IDEA what this is like for me, and to be honest, if you were going to say anything at all I would have thought that an apology right now would have been more appropriate.

"I'm sure that you WILL have the opportunity in the future to know what this feels like, and frankly I'm looking forward to when you do. Men like him, don't change."

Bollocks. Not so restrained.

I do have her number now and she has mine for emergencies. I just need to ignore it now completely and draw a line...

Fucks sake.

Hope you're ok OP. For what it's worth, my mother and step mother have never had a conversation and it's been 19 years since my step mum married my dad. This has made family weddings, christenings etc a nightmare! So I think you're being incredible.

Cross posted. I think you did the right thing-you were gracious, she was an idiot and you told her so. Well done! Now go and have a cup of tea and try and be calm-you've just done something incredibly difficult.

MusicForTheMasses Sun 27-Jan-13 09:18:37

I think you have STILL been dignified given the circumstances. You've told it her exactly how it is, and you know what? I bet it's nothing she hasn't thought in her own mind!

People told me I was dignified, but I had my moments, like sending one of the OW's slutty emails back to her with the words "Classy, I can see why he abandoned his family for you" - so don't think you are alone. I think you are allowed the odd slip of your halo hun.

grin....and that was bloody spot-on! xxx

Themobstersknife Sun 27-Jan-13 09:21:29

I think you did well. It was never going to go completely to plan. At least you have now spoken and it will not be as hard next time. I think you are doing absolutely the right thing here. My sister's marriage has broken down and a few years on, there are still lots of bitterness and lies, and my sister and OW have never met or spoken. It is so tough on my lovely niece and nephew. Good on you!

porridgeLover Sun 27-Jan-13 09:24:57

Choco I remember your thread while you were expecting. Your dignity and graciousness is as evident as ever. You have never let yourself down and I am sure you won't today.
I feel so strongly for you....I have no doubt you will have handled yourself well.
Best wishes.

MrsTomHardy Sun 27-Jan-13 09:25:51

Good job. smile

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 09:27:27

Well, its been said now. I think I also said it was incredibly crass of them to let my two year old be the one to tell me she was spending time with my children. She said she wasn't 'allowed to speak to me' and I set her straight that I was absolutely clear with twunt that I expected to meet her before she met my children. If she chooses to believe his lies, that's her perrogative but I am not about to go along with it any more.

I am weirdly calm. I know it can all be used as evidence that I am a psycho bitch but I don't really care. If she doesn't feel a tiny bit ashamed of herself now, she will do in the future. There had to be a point where I stood up for myself and today was it.

They are so unbelievably below my contempt.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.

fuckity fuckity FUCK FUCK FUCK.

OP, I have nothing constructive or no advice to add as I have not been in your position. I just wanted to say I think you are amazing. The dignified manner in which you dealt with her, whilst making sure they know they are shits, is fantastic.

You sound like an amazing mother and in years to come (when he has destroyed his relationship with the children, shelfish twunts like this usually do) they will remember and appreciate you.

Blackduck Sun 27-Jan-13 09:27:30

I think you did brilliantly. Wow, it's all about them isn't it? She had the affair with a married man, she knowingly did this, but ahh, didums she doesn't know what to say?!
I think you we're actually pretty restrained in the circumstances!

Perfect OP - perfect.

Dignified but no pushover - well done.

And HOW DARE she try and bleat. Silly cow.

Globular Sun 27-Jan-13 09:31:05

You handled yourself with amazing dignity and strength - your DC are so lucky to have someone like you looking out for them!

<cheers and waves pom poms>

BerylStreep Sun 27-Jan-13 09:31:59

Good God she's arrogant! You have done nothing wrong at all, and handled yourself well in the circumstances. I suspect ex will try to punish you for this though.

Just try to remember that she did you a favour in the long run - at least you are (partially) rid of this shit from your life.

saffronwblue Sun 27-Jan-13 09:31:59

Choco you did so well. They deserve each other and I love that you planted into her mind what her future is likely to hold.
Now you can let yourself fall apart, let the adrenalin go and have a long bath, eat chocolate whatever you need to do. It won't be so hard again.

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 09:32:55

oh I forgot to say, she actually told me she 'doesn't need me to tell her what kind of a man he is'

HA!
hahahahaha.

You're absolutely right love. You have only yourself to blame in the future, because he couldn't have made it more clear.

I'm glad she thinks she's so special and different.

During all of this, of course, twunt stood there smirking and said precisely - nothing. Didn't apologise, or defend her, or anything. In fact he told her to get out of the car because I was there to talk to her, not him.

Priceless.

Midwife99 Sun 27-Jan-13 09:36:28

Oh Choco - bloody fantastic. And by the sounds of it twunt enjoyed seeing her squirm?!!! What a complete bastard he is. He actually enjoys seeing people suffer on his account!!! Grrrr!!! angry

You did well choco. That's done and each time it will get easier. X

maleview70 Sun 27-Jan-13 09:45:08

Never forget who the real culprit is in all this......

She has probably fell for the usual bullshit that cheating men spout....doesn't understand me, horrible, if we didn't have kids, evil....blah blah. For some reason many (silly) women fall for the shit and before you know it this is what you have.

He is probably now telling her " see I told you" and she is probably thinking "well actually it wasn't that bad and unexpected her to be an ogre"

The best revenge is to completely screw the bastard financially. Eventually get your life back on track and show him who the real loser is.

Datingagain Sun 27-Jan-13 09:45:16

Choco - well done. Really, you totally did the right thing.

You said exactly what needed saying, if you hadn't have
responded to her bullshit "woe is me" line, you'd have
been kicking yourself.

You have now said your piece, she knows how you feel,
and you can now move on.

And for the greater good of the kids, you now have each
others numbers.

You're a complete legend. Now go and treat yourself to
something lovely.

This is one of the hardest things (out of a long list) of crap that you have had to deal with over the last year(?).

You are an inspiration. He and she are pond life.

As they get older, your children will form their own opinions. They will always know that you did the best you could, by them.

Sending huge hugs,
Lxxxx

watchoutforthatsnail Sun 27-Jan-13 09:45:32

choc, well done.
So it didnt go quite to plan, but still. It takes balls, and selflessness to do that.

Yesterday i let the ow ( now his wife) in my house, with him, to pick dd up after her party.

I dont even hate her, just pity her, he wont have changed, but for DD's sake, to not put her through shit, to not feel bad/ guilty/ sad etc, then its the best i can do out of a shite situation. Im taking a pat on the back for it. and you should too smile

porridgeLover Sun 27-Jan-13 09:46:30

What a s#1t.
What a prize she has 'won'.
Your DS's will be soo lucky to have you in the future.

On another note, I'm glad you're feeling the Rage....it helps to float over the separation.

CuttedUpPear Sun 27-Jan-13 09:48:35

Well done Choco.
Be proud of yourself.
smile

I hope you're doing something nice for yourself today.

Datingagain Sun 27-Jan-13 09:48:41

Sorry for crappy para spacing - not meant to look like a bloody poem...

Chesntoots Sun 27-Jan-13 09:49:28

I too think you are gracious - and far more of a bigger person than I am. I wouldn't be able to hold off on the sarcasm.
A while ago I went out with a man with a DD (I wasn't the OW) and his ex wanted to "interview" me to see whether I was "suitable" and have a CRB check done...
I would speak to her in front of your ex though. I don't think her character is as honest as yours, and as others have said, she may twist it round.

I think you did well.

Chesntoots Sun 27-Jan-13 09:54:16

I came in a bit late there!
Incidentally I think you were mightily restrained - I don't think I would have been.
Be good to yourself today.

SnowBusiness Sun 27-Jan-13 09:54:21

You were PERFECT! Well done. said your piece, maintained dignity and made life easier for your children. I think you've been simply wonderful. Well done. Now go and do something to take your mind of it all and give yourself a break.

OnlyWantsOne Sun 27-Jan-13 10:05:16

I think what you said was perfect really.

And it's done now, so like you said - try and draw a line under it.

Fwiw when my shitty bastard X left me for OW, and 3 weeks later she calls me and tells me she needs my help and I found out he had put her head through a door he was violent to me too and then they got back together, I resolved to walk away and leave them to it

They break up every couple of months, their both miserable. Fuck them.

ChippingInNeedsCoffee Sun 27-Jan-13 10:10:41

Oh my lovely - you did BRILLIANTLY - I am very very proud of you!!

I was on your early threads, but have somehow missed some in the middle.

Go you. You retained your dignity but told it how it is!! No one could have asked for more.

I hope this conversation echos in her brain when he's 'working late', taking an hour to get some milk from the local shop and if she ever gets pregnant.

I can't believe the stupid cow said that it's tricky for her - I woudn't have been able to resist saying 'Well that's what you get when you fuck someone else's husband - do you expect me to care???'

Anyway, that - at least - is over now. You've done it - and so so well!! x

tribpot Sun 27-Jan-13 10:11:12

God he really is utterly contemptible, isn't he?

At some point in the future, probably when she's been supplanted during a pregnancy, you will have the opportunity to say 'well, dear, you don't need me to tell you what kind of man he is'.

Right now I really would avoid any further conversation with her that isn't basic pleasantries or essential facts about whether the kids have eaten or whatever. He would love nothing more than to have the two of you at each other's throats, diverting attention away from the fact that he is spineless turd who caused all this. And the more you show you aren't bothered about whether she's there or not, the less reason you give for him to try and force the issue of her step-motherhood in order to abuse you by proxy.

Do try and enjoy your day. It's no different from any other contact visit except that no-one is hiding her presence any more.

cheeseandpineapple Sun 27-Jan-13 10:14:14

Choco truly has returned, like the Phoenix from the ashes! Well done Choco, you're probably re-running the whole scene through your head, maybe questioning what you said and what more you could have said. This is just the first unfortunately of more encounters to come. You might not have intended to say what you did or might be regretting it because you wanted to follow your plan but you needed to do this. I hope it feels cathartic. It may not but it should, you've been building up for this day for months.

You have the moral high ground. She sounded flustered, garbled and self centred. You're the grown up here, you're the one in control even if you don't feel like you have control.

Continue to assert yourself, setting the ground rules with both of them, good tactic to talk to them together, no chance of miscommunication.

You can still instigate original plan, along the lines of "we are where we are, we're not going to be best friends any of us any time soon but I want for children's sake to have open and transparent communication and to ensure the children are happy when they are with you and will do what I can to facilitate that but I need to trust that you respect my wishes"

She deserves your ex but not your children, she has no right being anywhere near them but unfortunately she now has access to them and rightly, wrongly, it can't be easy for her, not the life I am guessing she planned but one she has chosen. I would manipulate that to your advantage, as far as you can establish a relationship of tolerance of her so that she is willing to communicate with you even if ex isn't.

Have you read Getting Rid of Matthew? Worth a read. By Jane Fallon, being made into a film. You've got rid of your Matthew, OW now has him, how on earth she can have chosen that situation for herself is just baffling. She has got to be a deeply insecure person with no self esteem to think this is the best she can achieve for herself. It's rather pitiful. At least your eyes are wide open Choco and you have a chance to find someone to be with one day who is your moral equal.

NannyPlumIsMyMum Sun 27-Jan-13 10:16:26

Very sensible .

I wish my DHs ex-wife had done that with me - I would have really appreciated to know that the lines of communication between us on what ever level, were open between us , for the sake of the children.

Expect your DC to go through different stages of emotions for her.. Affection , hate , neutrality .

If you can help them to be at the very least tolerant of her ( which is all that's necessary , and if she has anything about her she won't expect any more than that ) it will make contact for them as least stressful as possible .

From my experience open communication and not slagging each other off in front of the children is crucial to their happiness in the long term . I can't stress that enough.

You sound really level headed smile your DC will be fine .

Accept that the OW may grow to love your DC ( as I did ) but be reassured that in their eyes she is very ordinary - whereas you as their mother will always be very amazing and top dollar.

nkf Sun 27-Jan-13 10:32:18

You wanted to do it. You did it. And now it's done. Time to enjoy the day.

BerylStreep Sun 27-Jan-13 10:37:14

Chesntoots, the OW already has a crb check! Her solicitor was very keen that chico be grateful for this. hmm

ProphetOfDoom Sun 27-Jan-13 10:40:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nameuschangeus Sun 27-Jan-13 10:40:54

Choco I've read through this thread and I just want to say that you are amazing. To be so civilised in the face of this is just incredible. I am lucky not to be in your situation but I know for a fact that I couldn't do what you have just done. And from where I'm standing the speech you actually said was better than the one you planned to say! Be kind to yourself today and know that you have been the bigger person in this situation. Sending unmsnetty hugs xxx

GLady Sun 27-Jan-13 10:56:29

I think you did great smile

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 10:59:18

thank you everyone. My SIL spoke to me and said she was proud of me, and she hopes that what I said sits in the OW mind like a uncracked nut, waiting for the day it's ripe enough to break open.

IF I get any contact from her that isn't about the children I will politely rebuff it and say the numbers are useful for communicating about the children, but I will not tolerate any other conversations being started. I've said my piece and will rest easy knowing that she's completely confident in what kind of a man he is now it's time for my fabulous life to start.

On a cheerier note, I went on my first date yesterday morning, and had a rather lovely time (until I had to cut it short because STBXH had brought back DS1 early, with wet trousers because he hadn't got spares). It's been rather overshadowed by the shit morning today, but all in all, it's been a pretty epic weekend for me.

Onwards and upwards. You are all wonderful, thank god for MN xx

wrinklyraisin Sun 27-Jan-13 11:02:39

I'm not the OW but I am a stepmum to my OH's child. I met his ex, her mother, 6 months into our relationship. It must have been hard for her on so many levels, I know I felt more nervous about getting her "approval" than anything. Now, 18 months or so down the line, we get on pretty well. We agreed very early on that we are both going to work as a team of 3 to keep things stable and consistent for the child, and my role albeit not as a Mother, is still a maternal loving figure in her life. It's quite funny now really as I talk more with my stepdaughters mother than my OH does sometimes. I think as women/motherly figures maybe we see the finer details and chat about the little stuff whereas OH tends to go with the flow more. I love my stepdaughter and want her to feel loved and secure and I want her mother to feel that I'm a positive influence in all this. It's complex and not without its inner struggles. But, OP, I hope you'll see that it's ok for another woman to love your children too if your ex has a committed and secure relationship. And don't feel bad for wanting to check her out, or establish some kind of ground rules. They are YOUR children with your ex. However a child can never receive too much love and in my case the whole dynamic does work pretty amicably and smoothly.

wrinklyraisin Sun 27-Jan-13 11:12:37

I did want to add I personally think your ex and his partner are fuckwits for lying to you (a running theme I guess as they started as an affair). Please try not to let your kids see your contempt for them though. My father got together with his mistress and my mum never let up complaining and bitching about it. It made my relationship with my dad very strained as all I ever heard was what a lying shit he was. Children are innocent and don't need to know stuff until they're older and more able to handle it iyswim.

You've been so dignified so far, amazing given the circumstances. Keep it up. smile

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 11:17:47

hi wrinkly, believe me my children see none of the contempt I have for their father. There is a huge backstory on here that explains it all.

I have no problem with them caring for my children or loving them. I have a huge problem with the fact that they do not behave as if they do. Their sole motivation over the last 18 months has been doing what is right for them. The children do not come into it.

My ex told me last night that he does not call his children in the 12 days he isn't here, or ask after them, or speak to their nursery for reports, or follow up on anything he is told about their medication or sleep or diet because it is too hard for him and he gets upset.

His OW has just confirmed to me that she is only interested in what SHE is entitled to, and how hard it all is for HER as well.

I'm very glad when other families manage to make parenting a 'team of three' but you can rest assured for many, many lone parents, parenting is a team of one, fielding a substitute bench of selfish fuckwits.

nkf Sun 27-Jan-13 11:22:53

I hear you, Choco. Out of sight, out of mind seems to be what my ex thinks. I used to try to encourage him to stay in contact but now I don't bother. He won't sustain it because it doesn't matter to him. All we can do is build a homelife for our children in which they don't feel marginalised and second best.

wrinklyraisin Sun 27-Jan-13 11:29:51

I'm very sad for you sad it sounds horrendous that your ex puts his own feelings above the well being of his children. I haven't followed your story. It does sound like you're remarkably well restrained though given their selfishness in the situation, must be so frustrating dealing with their "woe is me" tales. Ugh. They've made their bed, they need to deal with it maturely for the children's sake. You should be proud of how you're dealing with it all. Your kids might not understand it now but trust me in the future they'll thank you for being the one who was there for them selflessly. I have many issues with my own upbringing in a divorced family with a selfish and unwilling stepmother and a dad who didn't push for contact and a mum who bitched constantly. I'm trying VERY hard to make my stepdaughters life completely different. It's hard to keep personal feelings aside sometimes. I hope that you'll find some kind of resolution to this so you don't end up emotionally wrung out. I really do take my hat off to you for being the bigger person in all this. Un-mumsnetty hugs x

maleview70 Sun 27-Jan-13 11:34:11

The tel numbers thing works both ways. Whatever you do don't be tempted to send her any messages expressing anger or hatred towards her.

It would surely get messy.

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 11:34:21

thank you sad

ugh.

#Off to scrub my loo and imagine flushing them both down it

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 11:34:48

I am not that stupid, believe me!!

badguider Sun 27-Jan-13 11:48:14

Well done, it's SO good that you've opened up lines of communication, your x was obviously trying to keep you apart and continue the sneaking and lying of the affair - don't stand for it, when there's kids involved there should never be any sneaking and lying as they'll feel compelled to be complicit.... if you can keep this up then they can grow up feeling comfortable to tell you anything that happens when they're not with you... well done.

BattlingFanjos Sun 27-Jan-13 11:57:15

Having read your thread I cannot believe how amazing you handled this! You are most definitely a bigger person than me and the pair of them!! I cannot even begin to imagine how hard it has been for you. I'm a single parent and my DS has no contact at all with his 'father' which hurts but it is easier for me in a sense as there are no situations like this. What lucky boys your dcs are to have such a level headed, amazing mummy! Hugs to you choco xxxx

Skyebluesapphire Sun 27-Jan-13 11:59:39

Choc well done to to you for not punching her face in. I'm glad she doesn't need you to tell her what sort of man he is, and like others have said, remind her of that fact in future, when it goes tits up..... by which time you will be happy with somebody else, I'm sure, somebody who will treat you with the respect and love that you deserve.

My ex told me last night that he does not call his children in the 12 days he isn't here, or ask after them, or speak to their nursery for reports, or follow up on anything he is told about their medication or sleep or diet because it is too hard for him and he gets upset

My XH hasnt said to this to me yet, but it's only a matter of time....

I have had it said to me by friend's H's when they have split up. It's too hard for them, so they don't ring the kids...

It's such a pathetic excuse. They should want to hear about their week, school, etc.... they should think of the children who want to speak to them...

I ring DD every night that she is with XH and not me, to say goodnight and tell her that I love her and I will continue to do so. It makes me sad sometimes, but it is for her sake, not mine.. I have had to chase XH again this week, for not ringing DD. He says he will ring her in the week if he cant see her, yet doesnt. and when you think about how he texts/emails OW all day every day, I find it disgusting that he can't find 5 minutes to ring his DD.

These men are so far up their own arses. and of course OW is there to wipe away their tears and see how sad they are and how much they miss their children and of course it's all our fault, not theirs.....

Well done to you, enjoy the rest of your day.

SplatSplat Sun 27-Jan-13 12:02:36

Namechanged as I wanted to pass this on.

You have been utterly marvellous OP.

I think when affairs happen because someone is a complete twunt, what goes around comes around.

A friend of mine shagged a man whose wife was pregnant. He left his wife and has never met his child, though he did pay maintenance. Friend and he shacked up and she fell pregnant very quickly and they married.

Fast forward 18 years and their marriage has been the best possible punishment for a pair of selfish entitled fuckwits that anyone could wish for.
Neither has ever addressed the personality issues that allowed them to behave in such a way.

I feel so very sorry for all the kids caught up in it, though. One was abandoned by their dad before birth and the others have witnessed their parents screaming abuse at each other for years.

And since I've been unlucky enough to need to understand more about affairs, I find it more and more difficult to listen to the friend's whining about her selfish husband. I mean, WTAF did she expect him to be - a mature adult who takes his responsibilities seriously! Really? None so blind as those who will not see.

And for double laughs, I know someone who knew the first wife - and they say the second was a carbon copy. Though this is clearly not the case in your situation OP.

So in this instance I think relationship karma will probably apply.

As truly heart-wrenching as it is now, I hope you will thoroughly enjoy having the last laugh grin

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Sun 27-Jan-13 12:15:40

Well done choco, dignified and made your point.
Enjoy the rest of your day
Xxx

SpringyReframed Sun 27-Jan-13 12:19:47

Oh Choco, well done. You sounded brilliant to me.

I hope it gets easier and certainly it will never be as hard as today. I do hope you can enjoy some of the rest of your day x

Wotnow Sun 27-Jan-13 12:41:40

You did well to recover and reply to what she said
I thnik that was perfect
Well done!

I read your OP last night but couldn't reply as I was on my phone which I've had for over six months and still can't work properly and I just wanted to add to all the other voices that have said you did brilliantly. I hope you eventually manage to have some kind of benefit from the time your children spend with them (a break, some 'you' time, whatever) but for now just know that you have retained the moral highground and sent them off with some clear guidelines that will benefit your children. Seriously, you're amazing.

chocoreturns Sun 27-Jan-13 13:14:34

STBXH and his step dad just dropped off the baby. STBXH dipped out straight away, his step dad stopped just long enough to give me a kiss on the cheek and ask if I was ok, I nodded and he said 'no you're not'. I asked quickly if it was all ok at home? He said 'mm, shellshocked - I'll speak to you later'.

I honestly have no idea how it would have gone down, but I will probably find out one way or another. Feel a bit sad and shaky but you're all right. It's done. I'll ignore the phone number for several weeks but if I don't hear from her (which I doubt I will really) sometime in this month I'll prob send something inoffensive about the children (a how are they? or something when they are off with them maybe the time after next) just to make sure that the lines of communication really are open now.

I do need to draw a line under it now and just focus on the kids, as I intend to. Bloody horrible to have a face to the name again properly - makes her all the more real again.

Honestly you lot are stars. Bloody marvellous how MNetters help you through a day like today grin

Arithmeticulous Sun 27-Jan-13 13:19:55

What tone was the 'no you're not' ok in?

tribpot Sun 27-Jan-13 13:21:50

Glad the baby's home. I really don't think you should plan on texting but there's plenty of time to consider that once this weekend's farce is finally done.

Midwife99 Sun 27-Jan-13 13:28:23

Hopefully step dad will fill you in but meanwhile a big cyber hug from us all. What was she like? Physically anything like you perchance?

Coconutty Sun 27-Jan-13 13:30:46

Glad that the next stage of your life can get started now, Choco.

And what goes around comes around, she will one day be in your shoes.

onedev Sun 27-Jan-13 13:39:34

I've only seen this thread, but you sound amazing. Well done! Onwards & upwards for you. All the best grin

You sound amazing Choc and I think you've carried yourself with dignity here.

As long as they remain neutral about any misguided feelings they have about you in front of your children then who gives a monkeys what they think. You have been completely decent about the whole thing.

Now go and make a nice brew relax and polish your hard earned halo! grin

Almostfifty Sun 27-Jan-13 13:53:46

I am astounded how you have managed to do this. What an unbelievable Mum you are.

DuchessFanny Sun 27-Jan-13 14:30:15

Just want to say what a lovely mum you are ! I think you're amazing, well done !!

( must admit to snorting out loud to OW woe is me - twat !)

DoingItForMyself Sun 27-Jan-13 14:30:34

Choco I love your end line "for many, many lone parents, parenting is a team of one, fielding a substitute bench of selfish fuckwits." You should write a book!

Midwife99 Sun 27-Jan-13 14:34:02

Lmao yes that's an absolute classic & that strikes a chord with many of us!!

RambleOn Sun 27-Jan-13 14:59:16

I am a team of one, fielding a substitute bench of selfish fuckwits as well grin <enters this as quote of the week>

You have behaved very maturely and sensibly, well done.

BUT sometimes in your/our position you need to be a teensy bit selfish. The swimming thing. Make a list of 'firsts' that you want to bag, and keep ticking them off the list.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 27-Jan-13 15:00:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

canuck43 Sun 27-Jan-13 15:18:28

Choco was he upset about the children when he was shagging another woman in your bed, no.

HanneHolm Sun 27-Jan-13 15:24:54

Choco you are ICE QUEEN

HanneHolm Sun 27-Jan-13 15:25:48

Does she text or call you Choco?
Blimey

Loonytoonie Sun 27-Jan-13 15:40:16

I'm full of admiration at your strength and integrity. Your DC are so lucky.

MadamFolly Sun 27-Jan-13 16:15:02

Well done Choco, can't wait for SD's update.

Doha Sun 27-Jan-13 16:31:17

Choco

I have been following your original thread-Blog and now lurking on this thread.
You have come such a long way since the start of all this..
You are a lady and an absolute star.

Your Ds's Sprout and Bean will be an absolute credit to you and will be proud to have you as their mum.

Much respect to the way you handled yourself today and throughout this mess wine

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Sun 27-Jan-13 16:40:28

OP, I love how you have a good rant but then pull back and do the right thing. You are admirable, eloquent and sensible. [bunch]
I hope everything works out.

DontEvenThinkAboutIt Sun 27-Jan-13 16:41:14

Doh!
Not [bunch]. ...... I meant thanks

You know, the first things to do with DC are memorable only if you make them that way. Everything you do with your DC is a first for you, and you will no doubt make sure they have the most amazing time.

So don't worry about them trying to "out do" you on first experience things that your dc will love doing with you - simply because you are their mum and a great one at that.

lunar1 Sun 27-Jan-13 18:59:03

Choco, you really are a hero!

MusicForTheMasses Sun 27-Jan-13 19:29:56

Choco, you are an inspiration! xx

Hi, I just wanted to say how marvellous you sound OP. I have very recently been made a single mum and the fear of the potential OW is already playing on my mind. The way that you have dealt with it will echo in my own conscience when and if the time may come.

It's so strange how a month ago I thought of ds exdp and me as a unit and now when ds goes off with dp I feel like I'm in a black empty hole until he is returned to me. Fucking bastards aren't they! Anyway good luck with everything flowers

saffronwblue Sun 27-Jan-13 21:50:26

Well done choco. What lucky little boys you have to be exposed to your grace and dignity.

Bloody hell Choco you are amazing. grin

MammaTJ Mon 28-Jan-13 00:32:09

Hold your head up high, you did really well.

For the future you need to teach DS1 a song which includes the words 'When you get promoted from mistress to partner, you create a vacancy'

Someone cleverer than me will find a catchy addictive tune to set it too. Make sure he sings it a lot at home, so it becomes a habit.

When my ExH left me for the OW he denied there was anyone else. Our DD was 8, so he didn't dare let her meet her.

When I found out for sure, I knew all along but needed hard evidence, he decided that they should meet. I fought it for a while, as I had legal aid and he didn't. Then I insisted I had to meet her first. We had an interesting phone conversation where she asked me why I had to meet her first I said 'If you were a mother you would understand', she repied 'Thats where you lucky and I'm not C* doesn't want any more children and I do', She got short shrift from me 'Well you only have yourself to blame for that, if you had chosen a single man who didn't already have kids you might have had a chance, but you chose a family man who has children, so don't expect sympathy from me'.

The meeting didn't go too well either, but I did decide she would not actually cause my DD harm.

ComradeJing Mon 28-Jan-13 05:13:04

Well done Chocco.

mathanxiety Mon 28-Jan-13 06:18:38

Please, please don't send a text or email to her to ask how the DCs are doing.

She would laugh at you and slap you in the face, figuratively speaking, because she would see communication along those lines from you as weakness on your part, an indication that she had you where she wanted you, and would play games with you like not replying, or giving you some generic 'All's well' that would convey nothing to you.

You know how things are going when one child was returned early with wet trousers because there were no spares -- this weekend has been planned in advance and neither one of them thought of spare clothes for baby and small child? Things are going to go badly.

The step dad possibly knows something and you need to contact him but again, play your cards close to your chest.

I want to say that what you said was brilliant and imo better than the high road you had in mind..

I foresee a rude awakening for this woman, though she doesn't sound like the sort to thank you for the warning.

Midwife99 Mon 28-Jan-13 06:57:44

I agree that you shouldn't contact her again. Let her contact you. I think she would screw with your head with any replies because twunt will have convinced her you have some twisted reason for contacting her. What did step dad say later about being "shell shocked"?

MrsTomHardy Mon 28-Jan-13 07:57:48

I agree, don't contact her

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 08:12:05

I won't contact her, agreed.

I haven't spoken to his step dad as there was no opportunity last night but he was very, very quiet when he dropped in DS1. My mum talked to me about it last night and said sometimes it's worth calling to know, other times just best to let it lie. I've said my piece and I don't think it was hysterical or unfair so I don't really need to know how they took it. My MIL and step-FIL are his family not mine, so if they want to speak to me about it they can, but otherwise I think I should leave them all to process how they feel the meeting went.

My SIL did email to say how super she thinks I am and how proud of me she is though, so I sent back a chatty reply along the lines of I'm proud of me too, and now I feel I can be civil in the future knowing they are both in no doubt of how contemptible I really find them, so it won't feel fake - it will genuinely be 'for the children'. I know she understands, and if there is anything that she thinks I need a heads up about she would let me know.

I am trying to reach a new level of detaching smile

And Midwife, for the record, yes, she's slightly smaller, slightly younger, slightly plainer than me, and brunette. She looks enough like me for my neice to accidentally call her my name lol. So when she's had her own kids and is slightly fatter, slightly older and slightly greyer she should know exactly what her fate will be!

AgathaF Mon 28-Jan-13 08:30:23

I've not posted on one of your threads since way back when it all first happened, but choco I had to say that I think you handled that fantastically well.

I really hope the hand-overs get a little easier for you quickly, although I'm sure you will always worry and wonder. It's good that your SIL is so nice - long may that continue, and hopefully it will be a huge great thorn in the OW side too.

BadLad Mon 28-Jan-13 08:36:51

I don't have any "help" as such, but I am in awe of how well you are handling this.

I'd like to think that's how I would handle it, but I would get nowhere near, as I have nothing like your level of common sense and dignity.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 08:41:45

I'm still in the post-adrenaline state where you have rehearsal conversations in your own head about what you shoulda coulda said. I hope that this passes quickly. I'll give it a few days but then I really need to let it go.

Interestingly, my best friend who is a SM told me she would have been LIVID if she'd been OW, and her DP had thrown her to the wolves like that and not said a word. (She wasn't OW ever, but has four older step kids so plenty of experience of meeting the ex).

If he had any kind of decency he should have defended her, apologised himself and stepped in when I told her I expected an apology from her right there and then, but he didn't. He left her totally exposed. Here's hoping they had a pretty frosty drive home in the car!

I'm not sure she's able to see through that though, given she knows 'what kind of man he is'. grin

Hello Choco

I have dipped in and out of you threads - and I think you have posted on a couple I have been on - but I just wanted to say very well done on handling things and also to empathise with how shitty it is to have to do so, particularly with your DS1 being so very very young. When my exH left the first time my son (then 2) had to stay over with him I remember hearing this odd animal sound (I live in Australia and have lots of wildlife around me so not so strange) but then realised it was coming from me when he drove off. Very primal.

The first time DS met OW (despite assurances to contrary) I didn't know and was not told till they returned from 10 hour return weekend trip. I'm not sure if it was worse not knowing or knowing and stressing. It is a couple of years later now and OW and her son (at least she is a parent) have moved to our City and it is still hard as I am not 'permitted' to meet her (I think she has been sold the crazy vengeful wife story) and yet I am emailed lectures from exH about 'in this family' (ie theirs of which DS is in situ every other weekend we do this') and OW thinks we should do this and do that. It gets easier but it is very hard.

Intellectually I am glad that my DS seems (from what he said) to have a nice relationship with her and of course given where we are, the more people that love him the better etc etc. Much better than being with someone horrid to him BUT...and a big BUT. I think unless it has happened to you, the horror of being forced into being a part time parent and not with your child 100% of the time (unless by choice) is a brutal one and something that I still find exceptionally hard to deal with. The fact that I cannot in the crucial early years be 'in charge' of how I want my DS to be bought up (exH won't go to family counselling will parent as he sees fit - nothing dreadful but tons of TV, DS has own iphone etc etc and watches movies in cars if they go 10 seconds to the shops and eats a lot of what I consider crap - I know nothing to complain about in the whole scheme of things as exH is a loving father but still) is a hard pill to swallow and whilst I seek to make the best of things I think it sucks.

Anyway. huge love and hope you continue to feel positive once the adrenelin subsides. I would agree with other posters though about not calling/texting unless you have a specific concern that can't be sorted out with exH. She doesn't sound like she 'gets' it so will no doubt miscontrue.

xxx

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 09:15:43

hi Dolly smile thank you for your post. It resonates so much with me. I'm sorry you've been through it all too and I remember your threads too. It is horrific, and I still struggle when people suggest I will appreciate my 'child free time' because I still feel that I never, ever wanted to be a part time parent in any way. And it's not the same as when couple parents get babysitters. Because you instruct a babysitter on how to look after your child - you don't pop them in a car and say cheerio, do what you fancy for x hours, and don't feel the need to tell me anything about it! I'll figure it out from the state of his nappy and how his hair smells. Cheers.

But I'm glad to hear it does get easier. Thank you x

Hey Choco

I SO get what you mean. I have to really bite my tongue when well meaning friends exhort me to enjoy my free time and profess jealousy as if every other w/end free to take up a 'hobby' outweighs the pain of not being with your own child when the split wasn't your choice or one that you saw coming (my ex left not whilst I was pregnant but during IVF..nice..).

And down the line, whilst it DOES get easier I promise you my love, it is so 'normalised' for everyone else that they really don't see the big deal. And I often want to shout how would YOU feel at people who are talking up the perceived positives. Don't get me wrong, I don't sit around rocking and staring at the wall but I would MUCH rather have my DS with me all the time as I had planned.

Anyway, this year I am trying to put in lots of nice things (my situation complicated by being abroad and no long standing friends/family) - weekends away, drinks with friends etc, and my DS seems pretty happy so onwards and upwards my love but I just wanted you to know - as you have seen from your threads - that I TOTALLY get how you feel - actually I don't as your DS is littler than mine, but you have my admiration and support for simply bearing it all let alone IMO 'owning' the OW meet. I would concur with you that your exH perhaps showed her a glimpse of the future when he isn't in her corner anymore.

XX

ooh i meant to say that as you will have seen from lots of people from your thread that I am another one who totally gets it...not having tickets on myself as being unique given the wonderful support you have had!!

Chocco I don't know if you remember me. But I had no idea you were going through all this at all. ((((hugs))))

porridgeLover Mon 28-Jan-13 09:46:33

Choco and dolly, I had to come back on to comment about the awfulness of this enforced time away from your children and as you put it choco cheerio do what you fancy for x hours, and don't feel the need to tell me anything about it! I'll figure it out from the state of his nappy and _how his hair smells_'.

Thats the awfulness of it.

Dolly, I still do the primal keening sometimes when they leave. But I've learned how to pick myself up and get on. But boy, it hurts like hell.

choco, I agree with not engaging via text with OW. Dont put your ball in her court so to speak. And yy to MammaTJ's suggestion about a song grin

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 10:23:42

I have been guilty at times of glibly saying to bereft mums "think of what you can do with your child free time"

After reading this thread, I will not say it again.

Choco, as per usual, you rock.

chipmonkey Mon 28-Jan-13 10:29:34

choco, you have done brilliantly and have been very dignified throughout. I think you did well to be able to reply to her so quickly when she said it was tricky for her!
And you know what? I think in years to come, she may very well wish that she had listened to you telling her what kind of man he was!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 28-Jan-13 10:58:37

Read all through this, remembering your earlier threads and blog. <Applause> As ever you handled this brilliantly. How you can stay so outwardly calm when dealing with this pair is awesome.

BornToFolk Mon 28-Jan-13 11:14:26

I still struggle when people suggest I will appreciate my 'child free time' because I still feel that I never, ever wanted to be a part time parent in any way.

Yes, exactly. It hurts like hell when people say that. I've had people say "ooh, you can go out with your friends and party and get drunk". Um no, I can't because my friends are all happily married with small children, or pregnant (in short, living the life I wanted) and not available to behave like teenagers and go out and get pissed! And I don't want to anyway, I'm happy to stay at home with my boy safely tucked up in his bed upstairs.

I do go out on my child-free weekends. Even though my friends aren't exactly up for clubbing, they can be persuaded out for cinema trips or dinner! But coming home to an empty house kills me. It's not what I chose for myself, at all.

Anyway, choco, I think you are amazing! Totally dignified and strong. You handled it all perfectly, I think. You are a fantastic mother, putting your DS's first all the time. I can't believe they returned your older DS because he had wet trousers hmm. Was it really beyond their combined intellect to either a) take spares or b) pop to a shop and buy him a pair of trousers?

Re keeping lines of communication open, I think it's VITAL to keep communication going between you and your ex. I have a weekly phone call with exP to discuss DS. I hate doing it, I'd really rather not talk to him at all but I think it's important, for DS, that we maintain some kind of relationship, albeit frosty and akward. However, the communication I have is with exP as he is DS's parent. I don't speak to OW and I won't. As far as I'm concerned, if she has to be there when DS sees his dad, then I can't prevent it but she's not his parent and is not responsible for him.

Respect, choco. Respect <admiration>

Nearly everyone has said to me 'think of the child free time' so much so I actually almost started believing it would be a good thing. It's not! It's shit! I didn't see myself suddenly needing a whole new social life that didn't involve exdp or ds and like borntofolk says my friends are all pretty sorted and I'll feel like a complete charity case! This is all very raw and new to me but it's good to hear people who think and feel the same. I need a load of women to go out with who are left for the weekend childless because their ex is a fuck head!

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 28-Jan-13 12:02:06

Its been sobering reading the last couple of pages and I have been guilty of saying how good it is to have child free time...

I have a friend whose ex was such a useless specimen that after he left her with four dcs including a young baby, he said he couldn't take all of them together for contact because he couldn't cope. He didn't take the baby at all.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 12:42:31

My ex is basically a fairweather father. He wants them dressed prettily, well behaved and delivered for playtime without any fuss. He doesn't want to call them when it might upset him, or think about what they actually need, or invest anything in their wellbeing. He needs to be told (or given) everything they need, every single time. He gloats about how brilliant his eldest son is, but doesn't acknowledge who taught him to say please and thank you etc.

When he 'gets involved' it is to issue a decree from on high. There is no dialogue.

My son just asked me for 'Mummy OW'.

I am beyond furious. What on earth do I do? Say? What can I say? To someone who thinks that I am basically his unpaid childcarer... my STBXH won't give a fuck about how that feels.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 28-Jan-13 12:44:12

"Mummy OW" ouch.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 12:44:56

I'll say nothing about it, and just rest easy that he will have absolutely no problem with the children calling my future partner Daddy.

Bastard.

Nooneelseisallowedafergus Mon 28-Jan-13 12:46:52

I am so sorry for you choco. They have obv taught him to say 'mummy OW'. I would firmly tell them that she is just to be known as 'OW' with no undeserved prefix in the future.
I think you have every right to firmly lay down the rules on this one. After all, it is for your children's welfare as 'mummy OW' may not be around for long.
Big hugs. Don't let the bastards get you down.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 28-Jan-13 12:49:41

Fwiw I think if OW gets pregnant things will change pretty rapidly. With regards to STBXH, I don't think you can appeal to a lump of dung's better nature, he hasn't got one.

AgathaF Mon 28-Jan-13 12:50:09

Fucking hell. That must have hurt.

lunar1 Mon 28-Jan-13 12:50:13

Oh choco, I think I'd have to say something about the mummy ow comment. If they are encouraging this it just shows how truly low they are. Bastards

AgathaF Mon 28-Jan-13 12:51:07

Perhaps a call to your ex to discuss appropriate names for partners - both his and your future ones? Clear it up once and for all.

BobbiFleckmann Mon 28-Jan-13 12:55:06

Hello Choco - given that you are the most remarkably kind and thoughtful MNer (I remain v grateful), I am not at all surprised that you've managed to handle this so well. Props to you. xx

porridgeLover Mon 28-Jan-13 12:55:10

Aw thats beyond crap choco. Hurtful to you and potentially confusing for DS.

Leave it lie for the moment, dont do anything about it in the heat of the moment. But something will have to be said; prob along the lines of how he will feel to have another man spoken of as Daddy?

Does this have anything to do with FIL's reaction when he returned?

Midwife99 Mon 28-Jan-13 12:58:26

Yes that must have really hurt. I wouldn't have been able to resist saying "OW is not your mummy & never will be. I am your Mummy!" with extremely gritted teeth!!!
What a prize arsehole he is. Yes I think she will be pregnant by spring, she will become tired & needy & won't want to be dealing with a baby & a toddler. Once the baby comes & the competition will start, she won't be so much "fun" will she???

BornToFolk Mon 28-Jan-13 13:04:47

Bastard.

Quite. I do think you should bring it up though. Maybe not for an older child but it has to be confusing for a 2 year old to have someone else referred to as "Mummy".

Skyebluesapphire Mon 28-Jan-13 13:11:14

I'm afraid I would have said something about Mummy OW, along the lines of what Midwife said, but to your STBXH.... They have no right giving her that status in their life, especially as we all know she will probably only be around for a couple of years......

She should simply be known to them as OW, daddy's friend. That is her title and that is it.

I too hate being told that child free time is great. i have tried to be all whoo hoo about it, but its usually just a big front. Yes, it is nice to be able to do some things on your own, but on the whole, everybody else is busy with their own families and you are just on your own doing nothing...... I spend my weekends working usually, so that I can give DD more time when she is with me. If I go to the pub, its pot luck, there might be friends there, there might not. and the nearest big town to me is where XH lives. I presume he wont be out if he has DD, but of course he could get a babysitter and go out, so I would hate to bump into him.... plus Ive got nobody to go out with, because they are all with their husbands!

I never chose to leave my child two days a fortnight, I have had it forced upon me. Yet another shit thing that XH did to me. He chose to be without her, I didn't.....

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 13:12:49

you ok, choco ?

BerylStreep Mon 28-Jan-13 13:44:13

What a shit. Your lovely DS didn't dream that one up on his own.

From AgathaF: Perhaps a call to your ex to discuss appropriate names for partners - both his and your future ones? Clear it up once and for all.

^^ I agree.

Of course, twunt will deny that he or she have had anything to do with it, and will claim that your DS came up with it spontaneously because he is so dazzled by OW's charms. So rather than mention what DS has said, it may be better to have the discussion in general terms. And remember, when discussing it, it is nothing to do with hurt feelings, it is about giving consistent messages to and not confusing the DC through the use of inappropriate names.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 13:49:32

I'm ok. Just sitting with it and not doing anything rash. I have friends over so I'm telling them how wonderful MN is and trying to remain cheerful. This is probably best dealt with sideways, ie through SIL or MIL as you are quite right the lump of dung doesn't have a better nature, and he will obviously lie and say it was spontaneous. With utter conviction. Because he's a turd.

wrinklyraisin Mon 28-Jan-13 14:04:27

Ouch sad mummy OW?! She doesn't deserve the glorious title of Mummy anyone!!! Tell your ex she is to be known as OW. NOT mummy. She is not mummy. You are his mummy.

Fwiw I would never accept my dsd calling me mummy. She has her own mother. I am her fathers partner. I love her for sure. But I'm not mummy and never will be.

Sending you hugs and patience xxx

Alibabaandthe40nappies Mon 28-Jan-13 14:08:31

Choco you have handled all this amazingly, I really am in awe.

I would say nothing about the 'Mummy OW'. Just correct him and call her 'OW' whenever he mentions.

Ex will no doubt have done it with the intent of upsetting you, and be on tenterhooks waiting for the outburst and upset. Don't give him the satisfaction. Very soon he will be old enough to realise that he only has one Mummy, and if they try to force the issue he is likely to become obstinate about it. Bide your time.

DuchessFanny Mon 28-Jan-13 14:15:46

Alibaba just agreed with you on another post and your wise words i concur with again !

Your Ex will be hoping to twist the knife here, probably trying to regain 'ground' after your wonderful controlled talk at the week end. He's looking to make you mad, so your self restraint here is to be admired, i couldn't be the way you are now, totally in awe !!!

MrsTomHardy Mon 28-Jan-13 15:23:40

I would just say to DS "she's not mummy ow, her name is just ow and that is what you should call her".....
When 'arsehole'' next has contact and picks up the children just politely say "oh I had a chat with DS as he was under the impression he was to call OW ''mummy ow' but I've put him straight....if he is told again to call her that you will receive a letter from my solicitor regarding the issue! Then shut the door.

Bastard!

tribpot Mon 28-Jan-13 15:30:44

Temptation to reply "it's not mummy OW it's 'motherf**ker'"?

Just me then wink

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 28-Jan-13 15:34:31

I agree that you should say nothing about the Mummy OW issue to ex. It will only fuel the fire and tempt him to keep twisting the knife....he sounds like a real shit looking for ways to make you react to keep up his lies about you being a crazy vengeful ex.

Tell DS though that its OW not Mummy OW and keep repeating...

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 15:48:16

I wouldn't put it past him to have deliberately done it as retaliation sad

nasty horrible little man sad

Trib grin definitely NOT just you! I was thinking "not 'MummyOW' darling, 'SkankyOW' - but frankly, we all know our dear Choco is far above using her precious DSs as weapons to hurt other people.

That's what the other side do, and they are beneath contempt.

no, we shouldn't use children as weapons to hurt them. We should use CHAIR LEGS as weapons to hurt them. I'm raising a posse, who's with me?
[brandishes chair leg]

MoodyDidIt Mon 28-Jan-13 15:50:22

sensible and mature

well done OP. you are so much better than so many women in your position who just do their best to destroy their dcs relationship with their dad (have seen the fall out of this first hand)

you sound fab.

I'm pretty easy going and I wouldn't put up with 'Mummy OW' either. I think it's reasonable to say to OW that you appreciate she wants to get to know ds but it's confusing for everyone and hurtful for you if he is told to use 'mummy' so you expect her just to use her name and you will be reiterating that to ds if needed. If your ex then queries it you can use the 'so my future partner can be daddy X can he?'. If he says his fine with that it will just be further evidence of what a liar he is.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 16:03:01

if there is even the smallest possibility that is the case (and I think there is more than a small possibility, no reaction is the only reaction I can have. angry

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 16:05:36

lol sorry I took ages to post that last bit and missed the inbetween replies. I've got a table leg too bblackcurrants grin shall we call that Plan B in honour of you?

I will not use my DS's as pawns to retaliate, in his horrible little campaign to make me feel like shit.

arthriticfingers Mon 28-Jan-13 16:16:24

The trouble with using table legs, is that it would be a waste of a perfectly good table.
Despite the obvious satisfaction of beating him unconscious wink , there is very little hope of beating any decency into such a shit.
Really sorry, Choco sad (from a silent admirer smile)

MammaTJ Mon 28-Jan-13 16:16:55

I would not take being called mummy by my StD and I wasn't even the OW. She had left my then husband for his best friend. I loved that little girl as my own and was nowhere near at fault but that would have been just unnecassarily hurtful. I certainly would not have been allowing my DD to call the OW mummy anything.

You need to correct your DS and say she only has one mummy and one daddy. It is not retaliating to state facts. The Mummy Ow thing is just damaging and confusing.

5madthings Mon 28-Jan-13 16:17:05

'Mummy ow' I would be spitting!

check have followed your threads but I have no wise words, I will say that you should be bloody proud of yourself, not everyone would be as dignified as you are being.

Hold your head up high, karma means they will reap what they sow in the long run.

Much love to you xx

Midwife99 Mon 28-Jan-13 16:18:22

Any reaction feeds the narcissist's ego. Nothing will hurt him more than a serene smile & you looking fabulous in tight jeans while "Skanky OW" gradually gets paler & more hung dog by the week. Chair leg to his widescreen in the dead of night anyone?!!

Midwife99 Mon 28-Jan-13 16:19:22

But yes - correct DS when he says "Mummy Skank" - "it's just Skank, darling!"

AgathaF Mon 28-Jan-13 16:24:19

I agree with correcting him - "Darling, her name is just skanky, not mummy skanky. That's because little boys and little girls only have one mummy and one daddy, and I'm your mummy so she is just skanky".

I would think it might be confusing for him to be told he suddenly has another mummy.

Choco I think you are showing incredible restraint.

BornToFolk Mon 28-Jan-13 16:41:04

*no, we shouldn't use children as weapons to hurt them. We should use CHAIR LEGS as weapons to hurt them. I'm raising a posse, who's with me?
[brandishes chair leg] *

grin Love it!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 28-Jan-13 16:46:26

Lots of wonky tables and chairs as MNers grab legs smile

ProphetOfDoom Mon 28-Jan-13 16:58:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 17:17:35

I stupidly played a game with 2yo DS to see if it was a one off and I was over-reacting. I need to say absolutely nothing else, otherwise the smart cookie will latch onto it as something that gets attention and drive me up the wall going on about it. He was chatting about his nana, so I started asking him, who's your nana? who's your daddy? Who's your Grampa etc as a game, all smiles and fun (he's very into his 'own' things and naming stuff, so it's not an odd game really for now)

He was laughing along until I said who's your mummy? and he paused and said, um, OW? I fronted it out by laughing and tickling him and saying don't be so silly I'm your mummy!! She's just your OW. Left it at that. But fuck me, yes, today I would be glad of a MN hitman!!

SundaysGirl Mon 28-Jan-13 17:30:13

I think you are being amazing.

Just to mention...nothing like your situation but my ex got involved with someone pretty quickly after me and him split up. They had my son calling her 'mum' after about a month. I asked repeatedly for it not to happen but they agreed with me and carried on anyway. Now he is older and still calls her that. They tried to excuse it by saying that it was because her boys called her mum and my son got 'confused' and 'picked it up by himself'. Which was BS. I note her children don't call my ex 'dad' but by his name. And he lives with them full time. hmm

Anyway my point is it has stuck now and it does irritate me, mostly because they clearly encouraged it and I think it was a way for her to get her feet under the table with it all and assert her 'role'. I think in the beginning she was having fantasies of me not being there and them all being happy families together, without the pesky ex hanging about. Obviously not going to happen I have him most of the time and we are very close.

However despite it irritating me, I know who his real mother is and that's me. She is not his mum and never will be, and will never replace me in any way or create a bond like me and him have. So I let it go and I don't say anything to him, I don't want him to be in the middle of shit between me and them. I have had to decide whether to fight it and see the knock on effect on my son or to secretly think she's a twat and smile and be pleasant anyway and not let my son see it. I chose the latter.

I know it's so difficult because my situation was not an affair type one, in fact I instigated our split and even so found it really annoying to have my son be encouraged to call another woman 'mum' who had known him for oh five minutes! But I do realise it said more about her and her insecurities than me.

Sounds like your dick of an ex is trying to get to you. You seem amazing at being the bigger person and so I think trying to frame it mentally in 'ha what a desperate wanker to try and get to me that way. Pathetic' is helpful!

Well done for not letting yourself get sucked into it. Lots of respect to you.

Oh but as usual Choco you handled it brilliantly.

I agree - its not coincidence that this was the weekend DS started saying it. Ex probably pushed the OW-mummy thing. It was just a way of letting you know he has power sad

Keep clear with DS and I would wait before tackling it with the twat.

And um, a few pages back, did you mention you had a date?

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 17:39:10

I did grin

it's been rather overshadowed this weekend, but it was lovely and I'm seeing him again...

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 17:40:24

and Sundaysgirl, I couldn't bear it if it stuck sad so I probably will tackle it obliquely via SIL/MIL/stepFIL etc just to make sure that other people are correcting him on that one.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 17:41:12

sorry Sundays - I'm feeding DS at the same - of course I meant to say, how utterly horrible for you sad sounds like you are pretty amazing at being the bigger person yourself!!!

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 17:41:16

...how does he feel about being called "daddy" ? grin

arthriticfingers Mon 28-Jan-13 18:00:20

Super well handled smile. I love it. Keep roaring with laughter at the very idea. After all, as well as being total shit, it is completely ridiculous

chipmonkey Mon 28-Jan-13 18:06:15

Oh, and if the new man, works out, get your dd to call him Dad!
( Oh, I know, bad, bad idea but wouldn't it annoy your ex so much!)

chipmonkey Mon 28-Jan-13 18:06:33

ds

MaBumble Mon 28-Jan-13 18:07:50

Oh Choco pair of selfish bastards. Totally, completely selfish - with no thought as to how this will confuse the kiddies. I would also raise the matter with in laws. By the way does the heap of dung know you we're on a date? Because you do know he won't like that right?

Even ex (who was a useless father) didn't try the Mummy OW thing, but the OW did. HE put her right with an 'they already have mother' . So she banned him from seeing me, and also them. Which he did. She is long gone but he has a distant relationship with my eldest and a non existant one with my youngest (both in their 20s now). My husband who has been a wonderful father to my youngest who was 14 when we married (eldest had left home) is not called Dad. He's called by his name. But he is his father. They have a fab relationship, better than mine &y Dads. A title does not make a parent. Actions make a parent.

I have absolulty no doubt what ever they end up calling OW, or her successors - you are and always will be their Mother.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 28-Jan-13 18:47:55

Looking back to your date I really hope you had fun and don't let subsequent twuntery spoil the memory.

lunar1 Mon 28-Jan-13 19:07:07

Ok I have a chair leg ready!

It actually spoilt my relationship for many years with my sd to be forced to call him dad by my mum. He was in no way responsible for the break up and is a lovely man. For your boys sake it needs stopping, I used to lay awake at night terrified of saying the wrong thing. She will never be mummy, she is 50% of the reason they have a broken family and nothing more.

lunar1 Mon 28-Jan-13 19:07:17

Ok I have a chair leg ready!

It actually spoilt my relationship for many years with my sd to be forced to call him dad by my mum. He was in no way responsible for the break up and is a lovely man. For your boys sake it needs stopping, I used to lay awake at night terrified of saying the wrong thing. She will never be mummy, she is 50% of the reason they have a broken family and nothing more.

Flisspaps Mon 28-Jan-13 19:16:50

I wonder if the "mummy OW" thing is what was on STBXD(ick)H's stepdad's mind at drop off?

SpringyReframed Mon 28-Jan-13 19:20:17

Dear god, Choco, you are bloody amazing.

I actually feel physically sick reading this Mummy Skanky shite! You think there cant be anything new for these twunts to come up with but they do, and then of course others pop up having had the same experience. BASTARDS. I really hope MIL, SIL and SFIL put a stop to this for you. It is indecent.

LineRunner Mon 28-Jan-13 19:39:06

Yes, Flisspaps, I would be shell-shocked hearing that as well.

carlywurly Mon 28-Jan-13 19:49:09

Oh wow, am full of admiration for you. I know full well how utterly excruciating all of this is to deal with. It goes against all your maternal instincts to hand tiny dc's over to someone you don't have a shred of positive feelings toward. I have very little contact with ow - xh and I have grown to have a civil relationship and we organise everything between us. You are so brave to have met her.

It does get easier, I promise. And 3 years on I now have a great fortnightly weekend social life with a group of people who either have grown dc's, are childless by choice or share their care like me. It took a while to get there but I do feel that I enjoy my weekends with and without the dc's these days. A lovely new dp helped smile

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 19:56:30

I spoke to stepFIL sad

Apparently, STBXH and OW were all pumped up when they came over to meet me, with STBXH telling her and his mum that we were all going to be friends etc etc. So when I wasn't cheery and lovely they went back and basically painted me as a headcase harpy. Quel surprise.

So, stepFIL and MIL were v unhappy with me. I've just cried down the phone to him (unintentionally) because I was so shocked. Told them exactly what I wrote down here and said to them, and the fact that OW responded the way she did. Said that my DS has been calling her his other mummy and that I only asked to meet her due to STBXH lying to my face, yet again, the very day before, about where my children were.

I left it that I'm just at the end of my rope altogether and give up on trying to discuss anything with ex reasonably because its impossible. They are going to get back to me.

sad

Wow your ex feels very, very guilty doesn't he? Fuckwit should have thought of that before he started shagging around on his pregnant wife but that's why he's behaving like this - because if ds calls her mummy and if you were 'friends' then he can pretend he hasn't in fact broken hearts and made a huge dent in the lives of you and his dc.

LineRunner Mon 28-Jan-13 20:07:10

A decade too late, I have realised how powerful guilt can be with men like this.

I didn't have the right script so I made mistakes. The first mistake was not recognising his guilt - and how that would lead to the most unimaginable duplicity.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 28-Jan-13 20:09:03

Liars, tosser, skanky tramp and lovethieves the pair of them. StepFIL seems a decentish bloke maybe he won't have the wool pulled over his eyes. Sorry they've rubbed salt into earlier wounds.

tribpot Mon 28-Jan-13 20:09:09

So, stepFIL and MIL were v unhappy with me.

Because you don't want to be besties with your Ex-Wanker and "Mummy OW"?

What the actual fuck is wrong with these people?

They are going to get back to me.

What for? Why maintain contact with these people? Now Ex-Wanker is apparently having quality time with his sons on a regular basis, he can maintain the relationship with his family if he chooses.

There is only so much rising above you can do, choco.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 20:12:00

I sincerely doubt it. I think it's just another example of the world according to STBXH.

I say: "I'm calling time on the lies, I know she's there and that you are lying to me about it, and I want the lying to stop. Bring her with you to collect them in the morning and I will tell her that myself so there is no doubt in either of your minds about what my expectations are."

He hears: "Ooh she's been with the kids loads shall we all meet up for a cuppa now and be mates?"

I say: "I expect you to tell me where my children are truthfully when I ask you"

He hears: "You can tell me anything you like my love, it doesn't matter a jot"

I say: "An apology from you both is about the only thing that would raise you in my estimation at this point."

He hears: "[Snarl/Rage/Rant monstrous harpy talking]" and runs off to tell everyone how wronged he is.

I read up on NPD in the early stages of this saga and found myself nodding along at the time. Moments like this just make me despair. There is no way forwards that will ever make sense that I can see.

It breaks my heart sad

Oh choco what a rubbish reaction from ex in laws. You don't owe any of them anything so don't let them try to make out you are somehow in the wrong. People can be so vile and heartless. You don't deserve any of this [hug]

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 20:13:17

sorry the reply was to northern, I cross posted with the rest of you - trib you're right. It's too toxic for me, I'm bowing out sad

manitz Mon 28-Jan-13 20:22:29

have been reading and lurking. I think you are doing right to let this ride over you. children know who they can rely on and can see through the bs. ow is prob a flash in the pan so the word mummy means nothing and being a mum/mother is not about a word. My dd didn't call me mummy for the first 5 years (called me by my name) and I really loved it but it didn't mean I was not her mummy.

Keep strong and let your children see how people can deal with confrontation in an adult and dignified way and with respect for other people even when they want to bash their brains in with table legs. x

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 20:26:44

choco, your inlaws have just slipped down a notch or two in my regard

I hope they have in yours too

I know you had high hopes for your relationship with them, but the old adage "blood is thicker than water" has never been truer

you are on your own, love sad

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 20:33:26

I can't actually believe that they thought I would want to be his and her friend. I suspect it's a case of wishful thinking now.

I will NEVER be willing to share birthdays, christmases, meaningful moments etc with her and my children. I will encourage the children to know their father but I will NEVER want him back in my life in any way.

He isn't to cross the threshold of my house, how on earth they imagined I would want to be chums is beyond me. He's a prize cunt.

On top of all this my baby has been screaming his guts out for an hour and a half now.

Fucking marvellous.

Nevergrowingup Mon 28-Jan-13 20:39:46

I want to echo Anyfucker's comments.

My experience is that regardless of what the 'ex' in the relationship does, in the majority of cases the ILs side with their own children/blood.

However, to your DCs you are their Mummy and nothing, but nothing will change that. Your STBXH is a deceitful coward and letting him under your skin any more is just going to hurt you. Once you get through this episode, start planning your future and don't engage with people whose only interest in this is themselves and saving face.

So they were very unhappy with you??
Translated means: we are very unhappy with our son but they don't have the balls to say that. Skewed morals and cowardice. sad

LineRunner Mon 28-Jan-13 20:39:57

The in-laws will be feeling very guilty as well. Mine went through the whole sorrow / helpful / guilt / she-must-be-a-headcase cycle pretty quickly too.

manitz Mon 28-Jan-13 20:43:34

He is a cunt. I hope you get the baby settled soon.

Sorry my earlier post was a bit starry eyed but I don't think it helps you to feel much about this stuff as you can't control it. the il's prob feel out of control too, my dps were similar when dbro relationship broke down. They didn't really understand what was going on and wanted everyone to be friends - which they sort of are now but it took time, work and slidey backs.x

Wotnow Mon 28-Jan-13 20:44:51

did the ILs know he was sleeping with her when you were pregnant?
how cna they be upset with yu in any way?
you'd have thought they would be grovelling on behalf of their wanker of a son tbh..

Doha Mon 28-Jan-13 20:47:45

After all that has happened l am really surprised that your IL's remotely believed that you want to be friends with that pair.

He has wormed his way back into their lives with the OW and soon they will all be playing happy families with your DC's.

I hope you told your FIL how disappointed you were in them. I think you now know exactly where you stand with that family and l don't think you can rely on them any more for support--what a shame.

honeyroastedcashews Mon 28-Jan-13 20:49:02

So sorry you're being put through yet more crap by this fuckwit Choco sad I can't get over the cheek of these people - not only to they seem to have no appreciation for quite how stunningly decent and reasonable you're being in all of this, they actually want to try and make you feel guilty for not wanting to be all chummy chums?? How very naughty of you to not be willing to join in with their "we're still just one big happy family" fallacy!

It really is mind blowingly deluded and selfish in the extreme. Totally agree with tribpot - there really is only so much rising above you can do sad angry

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 20:51:30

They have been playing happy families with her and my children for months.

Battle lines are redrawn. I am over it.

The temptation to point out I have a DA worker to help protect my children and myself from him is HUGE but I will simply have to draw a line here and move on.

As my sol and others have frequently said, if he can't be trusted with the children etc then his recourse is court. I need to remind myself that I am dealing with someone who chooses to behave appallingly and am surrounded by people who wish I was simply misunderstanding him.

I'm not. He's deliberately vile. The support they gave me all year has been invaluable, but I can at least know I've reached a point where (while it would be nice) I no longer need it.

arthriticfingers Mon 28-Jan-13 20:51:39

Oh choco sad You poor thing. My heart goes out to you.

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 20:54:16

sad

Viviennemary Mon 28-Jan-13 21:00:36

I don't think I could hand my child over to be looked after by the OW. I just couldn't. But not sure what the law would say on this. But I know I would just not be able to. If it was a new girlfriend then I suppose I might have to but not the person who my husband had cheated with. No I think that is unacceptable.

Lovethesea Mon 28-Jan-13 21:03:06

You are being incredibly courageous even though it must feel like drowning.

Hope you have a lot of old and new support for you in your new place.

BornToFolk Mon 28-Jan-13 21:07:47

Viviennemary, I'm sure it's very, very easy to say things like that when you are still with your husband.

However, if you should ever find youself in the situation where your DH cheats on you then you will probably do what Choco, and I, and other mums on this thread do and hand your children over to their dad because you have to. If my DS it to grow up healthy and happy then he needs as good a relationship with his dad as it is possible to have and I have to facilitate that. And the law agrees with that too.

slambang Mon 28-Jan-13 21:08:13

Oh Choco.

Just remember you have been honest all the way through. You still have your integrity. You have only told OW where she stands honestly and remarkably mildly considering.

You will never regret saying what you did and if you hadn't said it you would always have wished you had.

Remember, your PIL's and OW had had Twunt's spin on the whole thing incessantly for months. "Yes, Choco's fine with it." "Yes Choco wants to meet OW as she wants us all to get on". "Oh yes she's very happy about it."He was probably very convincing because he had convinced himself of it.

You have been incredibly restrained in your dealings with PIL and what you've said about Twunt, so with a bit of wishful thinking they've probably been taken in by his lies version.

So, when he goes back to PILs relaying stories of you being unfriendly, or downright rude (his version, remember) they will be shocked and upset.Of course, it brings them all slap bang up to the reality of what their son has done.

Bloody good thing too. About time they stopped living a nice cosy fantasy life where you are delighted about OW and Twunt walking off into the sunset with your babies.

Tell them, and remember it is not your responsibility to make them happy.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 28-Jan-13 21:10:25

DCs' firsts, Mothering Sunday, birthday treats - I can see there will be conflict ahead. Twisting the knife no doubt. Your ex must have been disappointed you haven't fought over him so now he stoops to point scoring with his own DCs.

The important thing is they won't damage your bond with your boys, they're on the periphery (wtaf looking at properties near yours), but it's all bluster and noise like a fart in a gale.

Your influence will be the stronger, more enduring.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 21:11:18

I do feel like I'm drowning sometimes. Choking back my own tears while my baby cries and cries and cries, I've not eaten and have no opportunity to cook for myself. As soon as he's down I have to clean the kitchen etc - I know it's no different for countless single parents, or military wives or anyone else for whatever reason on their own. But it's so heartbreaking to know that in the back ground the person I loved and trusted enough to start a family with is working away with his OW to undermine me. I'm not surprised any more. His own father is abusive, he's following the pattern to a tee. But I am consistently disappointed, even when not surprised, but the number of people willing to collude with him (even just by standing by and doing nothing).

Sometimes I'm so unwaveringly polite and positive about it all in public it's all I can do to stop myself screaming in frustration on my own. Then I just think what's the point? Nothing changes. One way or another he walks all over me time after time after time.

BornToFolk Mon 28-Jan-13 21:13:42

I need to remind myself that I am dealing with someone who chooses to behave appallingly and am surrounded by people who wish I was simply misunderstanding him.

I think people, in general, just want an easy life. It's eaiser, and nicer, if you could just get on with your ex and his skank. That's more important to your ex ILs than your well-being. So sorry, Choco. sad

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 21:14:20

choco, fuck the kitchen

it will still be there tomorrow

get your baby settled, pour a cuppa or a glass of wine and watch some shit on the telly or chat to us

then get an early night, you must be fucking wrung out

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 21:15:49

oh, and that lovely new man you have ?

if you haven't yet...fuck his brains out next time you see him

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 21:18:06

hahaha Anyfucker that just made me really laugh smile

I haven't yet. Had my first kiss from someone other than twunt in 7 years though so it may happen yet!!

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 28-Jan-13 21:22:41

Just read the bit about your in laws.

What the actual fuck?!

They seriously expect you all to be mates after all that has happened?

Their attitudes explain so much about why ex is like this.

fosterdream Mon 28-Jan-13 21:36:06

Oh choco you're dealing with so much if my DH was to ever to this to me I hope I'd have even half of your strength.

tribpot Mon 28-Jan-13 21:42:57

One way or another he walks all over me time after time after time.

Because you're trying to fight fire with reason, choco. Fire isn't reasonable - it just burns. You want to be dignified, restrained and mature. But those are weapons that work best when backed up by a nuclear threat.

It seems like a cycle - you try to be dignified and far too understanding (sitting in a cafe during his statutory ten minutes with his baby FFS) until you can't take it any more, and then you take action. Withdrawing contact (for which I do not blame you in the slightest) or resetting the rules, which only gives him a chance to retaliate. You said he had to pick them up himself, he responds by forcing the issue of the OW. You withdraw contact entirely, he responds by househunting 15 mins from your house.

Fuck knows how someone so thoroughly decent and kind ended up with this shit-for-brains in the first place, choco, but you're still not seeing him for what he truly is. You have to stop being nice. He is teaching your son to call his girlfriend mummy. He did it the very first time you allowed them to meet. He will push you and punish you for as long as you let him. Just as he did when you were married.

The behaviour is escalating. They will push the boundaries until you don't know where they are any more - you know, like abusers do. Don't be reasonable about it in public, it's what he uses to manipulate you. You are allowed to be angry. Guess what? We are angry for you! angry angry angry

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 21:59:56

you are right of course. Thank you for reminding me - sometimes I'm so caught up in the day I'm in I lose the bigger picture. I guess I find it so utterly beyond me the way he thinks/behaves that I just can't believe how bad it can and does get sometimes.

And I think I sound like a loon when I say to people in RL that he is moving close to me to intimidate me, because they all assume it's to be close to the children (that he couldn't give a rats arse about when they are out of sight).

tribpot Mon 28-Jan-13 22:04:13

He's a highly accomplished liar. That's how he persuaded you he was worth marrying in the first place!

But of course by smoothing things over and being polite in public, people are never getting a glimpse of the real him, in order to form a judgement about why he is moving closer to where you are. You have nothing to be ashamed of. Don't keep his secrets.

Skyebluesapphire Mon 28-Jan-13 22:05:47

It is beyond me how anybody ever thinks that you can be friends, or even civil to somebody who has betrayed you and walked out on you. Yes, in time, possibly, people can be civil, but certainly not in the early days and certainly not when they are still spinning packs of lies.

My XH had OW totally on his side, oh poor you, yes she is horrible isn't she, oh you are so sweet and lovely. {vomit} oh isn't she cold and pathetic and childish, poor you having to deal with all that.....

while XH told OW that I could look more "pleased to see him" when he came over to get DD as I always looked so miserable. No shit sherlock, you just walked out on us and betrayed me with OW contact behind my back.....

What the fuck do these twats expect? That they can treat us like this, then 2 months later, expect us all to be friends?

ThereGoesTheYear Mon 28-Jan-13 22:23:58

choco you're bloody marvellous. You haven't put a foot wrong. It is so clear that despite how gut-wrenchingly difficult this must be for you, your unwavering priority is your children. Your boys are very very lucky to have you.

chocoreturns Mon 28-Jan-13 22:33:58

I won't keep his secrets any more. If PIL 'come back to me' and I can't see us reaching a positive understanding (god knows what that would even be) I'll be very honest (at last) as to why, tell them it was an abusive relationship and explain clearly in which ways his behaviour has been intimidating, bullying etc.

I don't need them to agree, but I no longer wish to pretend it's just a 'shame' and 'these things happen'. I will make it clear that I will do everything I need to do to make sure my children are safe and that I accept they may not want to spend time with me in the future, if they don't feel they can agree with the way I have experienced everything.

My SIL keeps telling me to stress how the children are 'obviously having a lovely time' as a softener when I ask them to respect my boundaries, but I don't think they are. And I shouldn't have to 'soften the blow' of stating my boundaries. It's just too fucked up.

Accomplished liar doesn't really seem to say it enough, but it's very accurate. That's exactly what he is.

I'm off to bed. Chocolate for tea in the end smile

thanks for all the messages of support. I don't know where I'd be without MN xx

BerylStreep Mon 28-Jan-13 22:43:48

Choco I'm so sorry to hear that your ILs have let you down like this. It's clear where their priorities are and have been for quite sometime.

If only you could move to the opposite end of the country for a bit to get away from them all.

In fact that could be rather amusing. Wait till they have bought a new house near you, then move.

bamboozled Mon 28-Jan-13 23:00:16

Just read the whole thread - hats off to you Choco - you are so restrained and fantastic... It's such a horrid horrid process that ever goes away (9 years and counting) but all you can do is know that you have behaved beyond reproach - so that you are proud yourself - your ex wouldn't be able to feel/do that -
Hoping for a less stressful day for you tomorrow x

Midwife99 Mon 28-Jan-13 23:24:54

Oh darling. What an awful few days you've had. The bottom line is MIL & stepFIL will always be in his corner & are old hands at being manipulated by him. I feel that you should trust none of them anymore. Contact on YOUR terms. End of. No more negotiations & opinions & interference. Fuck em all. angry

Choco

I wish I could reach through the space of air and time and give you a hug and to let you know that it is OK to be feeling like you do. You have already been through so much and this no doubt feels like an absolute kick in the teeth which of course it is.

In terms of the 'MummyOW' I don't think this is acceptable and has clearly been driven by STBexH and/or OW. They do not have any other children in the house for him to 'ape' and it is perfectly easy and acceptable to say DS this is OW <name>. Every single person I know who are in blended families call their 'step' parent by their first name aside from one whose mother died when child was an infant and his father's wife was the only 'Mum' he knew. In terms of siblings my DS was told to and calls OW's child his brother and I let that go as in the longer term they will no doubt be like brothers but OW is most definately OW <name>.

In terms of your in-laws my experience has been that initially they were shocked and supportive but over time as OW becomes part of their life and - not talking about yours - but in general I am sure they are capable of perfectly being pefectly 'nice' and 'nice' with the children - and the emotional devastation and upheaval has not been theirs - they will over time just want things back to 'normal' and will have to appetite for discussion or remembering of what has happened. This is very tough to deal with but it has happened to me and I now I just have to get on with it and I dont' engage or discuss. My ex MIL recently pulled me up - unprompted - on something I had taken umbridge with my ex and his OW about (related to a bad case of sunburn) but experience has taught me to say, I think we will have to agree to disagree on this and I'm not sure why we are discussing it etc etc. Similarly ex FIL with whom I was/am-ish close - on meeting her (it took 2 years) told me, unprompted, that she was a delightful country girl with a warm heart who is taking good care of my son and their bond was lovely to see and that must be reassuring for me to hear. I choked on what I wanted to say and simply said, that is nice but surely you must apprecicate that it is something I may agree on at this point given the circumstances and have just pulled back from them. As others have said you need to focus on relationships and friendships that are positive and nurturing and not drag you down. Easier said than done at times and I have only just realisd that I am being to damaged by battling through and trying to maintain relationships that are past their sell by date. Another horrid fall-out of the horrid situation sadly.

On the bright side va va voom to the kiss. I hope your second date is a hugely positive one for you my love, you deserve it.

And bugger the kitchen - Dolly x

Bugger them, the ILs, and the housework, m'dear. you have every right to be angry and to express it. They are NOT acting like normally socialized people but like aliens from the planet Bastard.

(hugs)

mathanxiety Tue 29-Jan-13 02:25:18

Sometimes I'm so unwaveringly polite and positive about it all in public it's all I can do to stop myself screaming in frustration on my own. Then I just think what's the point? Nothing changes. One way or another he walks all over me time after time after time.

Be less polite. Nobody is handing out medals for being stoic and letting bad things happen to you.

Choose an influential person you know in your social circle, someone who is likely to be a good listener and not someone two-faced, and spill the beans whenever you get the chance. I did this -- just told one particular woman I know but not extremely well, but she is the sort of woman whom everyone respects and who knows 'everyone' -- without losing my composure and without seeming to be gilding the lily or being horrible just for the heck of it to exH. Before long, other people were giving me the odd hug if we met.

You are not powerless here -- your children can be taught to say things with their fingers crossed so to speak, and egregious bad behaviour can be brought to the attention of the courts. However, you need to weigh how much it would cost you (not talking in terms of money here) to take him to task on every horrible thing because he could and would only keep at it.

The ILs are all willing to believe you can get over it all and be friends (gackkk) because they are all narcissists.

Read as much as you can about Ns and remember that trying to engage with them is the road to madness. Best bet is bowing out, living your own life with integrity, not taking the bait when it is dangled in front of you, forging your own world that does not include them.

Be assured they will not fool all of the people all of the time. They are not that smart. Some day they will be unmasked.

If you really feel you're coming unstuck, please get some therapy for yourself so you can be a good mum to the DCs. And also because it is miserable to fall apart or let this get in on you.

And sod cleaning -- make yourself something tasty to eat. Go out and get some frozen samosas or something good and tasty for the freezer and don't neglect your own nourishment. Get adult multivits and take them.

Oblomov Tue 29-Jan-13 03:28:31

I am so very sorry to read this. I am in awe of how dignified you are. You put my petty worries into perspective. I so hope you find some of the peace you deserve.

HermioneHatesHoovering Tue 29-Jan-13 05:18:29

"Parenting is a team of one, fielding a substitute bench of selfish fuckwits" - amen to that!

Choco I've read your previous threads and you have conducted yourself amazingly.
Your poor ds must be sooo confused with the "mummyow" thing. Don't they realise they are fucking with his head?!!

chocoreturns Tue 29-Jan-13 08:01:01

thanks everyone. I've had some sleep and I feel a bit better.

Today I'm going to talk to my HV and my DA people to say about what's happened and get some advice on how to move forwards.

Am trying not to wallow. You are all immensely helpful - thank you xx

cheeseandpineapple Tue 29-Jan-13 08:05:01

Good plan, Choco, so frustrating for you to have to go through renewed hurt. I think it makes MN's combined and copious blood boil when they hear what you have to deal with.

MummyOW is an absolute no no. Your DH is such a lousy shit for confusing your son. But you can reinforce with DS and remind him subtlety and in a way that isn't going to draw too much attention, that OW is "name" and not mummy, only one mummy and that's you, delivered regularly in same perfect, low key, positive way you did the first time.

Please though, despite the inevitable pain you are going through, don't let them poison your spirit.

Accepting a situation doesn't mean being defeated by it.

Accept that they are selfish, self serving, unreliable and untrustworthy. You cannot change this.

But you can manage your reaction to this and how you deal with them. Right now part of your job as mother to your wonderful DSs is to deal with some people in your life who sadly you can't fire or "terminate" but who you will have to deal with professionally and by that I mean, formally, structured and with legal intervention as and when needed. Just as you plan to do.

Agree with others about your inlaws. They are caught in the middle and although their loyalties are ultimately with arse wipe and turtle head, it sounds like they want to try and maintain a reasonable relationship with you, whatever their motive. You just know now to tread carefully with them too and ensure they are clear on your wishes.

You are the centre of your children's universe, as unbearable as it is letting them go to your ex and OW, this will not change. Whatever is said and done behind your back, you will not be replaced by some fucking cuckoo as far as your children are concerned.

Don't let any sadness about what's happening impact on your time with new potential beau, he is most probably rebound guy but just plan to have some fun with him, maybe it might turn out to be more but no expectations, just get yourself back in the saddle and see where it takes you!

saffronwblue Tue 29-Jan-13 08:13:07

Dear choco I am aghast at their behaviour. You are entitled to feel hurt, and incandescant with rage. You don't have to push those feelings down.

They are such fuckwits on every level that karma will be hurrying to catch up with them. Your job is to keep your dignity and integrity intact, as you have been and remind yourself that you are leading your life according to your values. Your dear little boys will always know who Mum is, through and through. OW will probably be gone in a year and your Ds will have completely forgotten her by the time he starts school.

Woohoo to the kiss!

chocoreturns Tue 29-Jan-13 08:22:45

smile have just changed OW name to turtle head in my phone lol.

indeed wohoo to the kiss, he text me last night saying how much he would like to see me again. AND I have another possible first date this week... I don't really want to being a relationship tbh but I'm definitely ready to be out in the world again and having conversations with single men. I left my marriage feeling hopeless, ugly and beaten down. It's rather nice to be reminded that actually, I'm pretty hot and decent men would like to get to know me.

BerylStreep Tue 29-Jan-13 08:59:42

Punches air with fist as if in bad American movie.

Go Choco.

<plays sound track to Rocky as Beryl has a fist pump moment> ; )

AgathaF Tue 29-Jan-13 09:22:25

Have loads of fun on your dates - you deserve it.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Tue 29-Jan-13 09:53:55

"I'm sure that you WILL have the opportunity in the future to know what this feels like, and frankly I'm looking forward to when you do. Men like him, don't change."

Haha i love that!

I can't believe his family! I suppose they just want everything to be nice and fine and want you to keep the peace! Its probably hard for them to believe that their child is an arse. Parents do tend to believe everything their children tell them no matter what.

Did you say his dad was abusive as well or his stepdad?

What's a DA?

BerylStreep Tue 29-Jan-13 10:27:59

Domestic Abuse worker, I think.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Tue 29-Jan-13 11:24:18

Thanks.

How was he abusive op? Sorry i missed that on your previous threads.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 29-Jan-13 12:15:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chocoreturns Tue 29-Jan-13 12:42:27

You're right Matilda, Cheese&P is definitely wise.

My HV recommended Cafcass and mediation to set ground rules re: contact. I am terrified by both those options right now, as I know how easily he seems to be able to make me look like a calculated, controlling, nasty vindictive ex. I am going to speak to the DA (yes, domestic abuse) team today. I don't really want to go into details right now, but it was financial, emotional and sexual during our relationship. I have struggled very hard to accept that the things that went on were not normal or loving or respectful and am on a Freedom course right now trying to sort out how to move on emotionally. I think because it was never physical I feel incredibly reluctant to explain as I worry people will think I'm oversensitive or lying or mad.

I'm going to write out the line you've pulled out (accepting a situation...) and stick it up on a mirror or a cupboard so I see it every day for a while.

On the plus side, I went and found a lovely preschool this morning and think I would really like to send my DS1 there. I hope that I don't have to deal with too much crap about his schooling now as well!!

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Tue 29-Jan-13 13:03:10

choco I followed your original thread and I wanted to say I think your behaviour has been dignified, gracious and courageous in the most difficult circumstances. Your children are so lucky to have you. I have no advice or any real experience to offer but wanted to say how incredibly well I think you are coping, even if you don't think you are.

arthriticfingers Tue 29-Jan-13 13:08:02

choco, check out the links at the top of the thread, and join us if you feel you want to.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1670070-Support-for-those-in-emotionally-abusive-relationships-16
Yey the Freedom Programme!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 29-Jan-13 13:14:28

choco you are doing so well.

On the face of it, it does seem that Cafcass etc would be a good option - presumably the fact that you have support from your HV and DA team would add weight to your side of things?

ProphetOfDoom Tue 29-Jan-13 13:22:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chocoreturns Tue 29-Jan-13 13:38:37

thanks Matilda. I think I will just go ahead and organise it, while suggesting that he is welcome to visit and raise any concerns with my choice if he does so in good time. In the whole year our DS1 has been in nursery he has never once called them for a progress report or to give his contact details so I'm sure it's just another bluff from him to make himself sound good to the OW and PIL etc.

I've just called my sol to ask about where to go from here. It's another £300 just for the advice... I wish I had a limitless fund to fight him with but I am just watching the funds drain away and I know that I am going to end up crossing my fingers and hoping for the best if I don't get things sorted quickly.

5madthings Tue 29-Jan-13 13:44:07

check re preschool yes just do it but when it comes to school places you both need to agree, he has parental responsibility and if you applied and he disagreed he could get in touch with the kea who will not process the application unless you agree or worst case scenario it goes to court and they rule. If this is not done by the application deadline it could mean you miss out on your first choice and are allocated whatever is left over.

When the time comes hopefully he won't be a dick but you can get advice on the education board as there are a few posters who know the admissions rules etc, they will be able to advise you, fingers crossed it doesn't come to that xx

Enjoy your date!!!

5madthings Tue 29-Jan-13 13:45:50

Not check!! choco bloody auto correct!

ExasperatedSigh Tue 29-Jan-13 19:10:27

choco I haven't followed your threads as such but have been vaguely aware of what has been going on. I have to tell you this: you are amazing. Truly, genuinely, sandwich-droppingly amazing. You have met the devil with dignity, and your writing is wonderful.

Your ex is 100% skidmark. I hope he gets boils up his anus every day for the rest of his life.

Wishing you joy x

mathanxiety Tue 29-Jan-13 19:21:48

Free advice line for women. You might be able to get some details advised upon and save the big ones for the pricey solicitor.

mathanxiety Tue 29-Jan-13 19:26:09

By the same token, you can disagree about a school he chooses -- and don't underestimate his potential to disagree with your school choice just because he can. There doesn't have to be any other motivation except to get at you.

I recommend you find at least two or three other schools that would be fairly acceptable to you so he doesn't know which one to automatically rule out. Having a deadline for him to raise an objection and come up with at least four alternatives is a good idea too, but don't present yourself to him on a plate by having all your school eggs in one basket.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 29-Jan-13 19:36:48

It did cross my mind if he and turtle head are looking for houses close by to Choco's, at least that probably means they'll look at schools in the same vicinity. Fancy having to consider all this with those 2.

ProphetOfDoom Tue 29-Jan-13 19:59:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mathanxiety Tue 29-Jan-13 20:06:48

I second that inch/mile observation.

This doesn't change with these people. It is their nature. They pounce on perceived weakness.

ZenNudist Tue 29-Jan-13 20:58:04

Chocco delurking to add support. Thought the idea up thread about moving if stbxh moves nearby a good one. How about the other end of the country grin

Do you have friends & family nearby to help support you at this time?

ComradeJing Tue 29-Jan-13 21:16:05

I haven't been following your other threads but I'd agree about inch/mile situation.

God but he's just a miserable twat isn't he?

Do you have support for yourself? I know it's a cliche but please remind yourself that those who don't matter mind and those who matter don't mind. Your real friends won't take his side and they won't think you're a vindictive loon. If his family or his friends or the OW or gossips think that then, well, fuck them frankly.

<squeeze>

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 29-Jan-13 21:27:15

Schmaltzing sad what a position to put your DCs in - don't these people think?

amamini Tue 29-Jan-13 21:29:21

thank god my sons are 13 and 16 and they are the ones who decide if and when they will see their father...I feel sick to my stomach for you having to hand over the most precious person in the world to a hateful bitch you must loathe more than words can say...I don't know how you stand it all, you have my deepest sympathy.

Midwife99 Tue 29-Jan-13 21:31:06

I wonder if it would be simpler if you just viewed & chose the pre-school & then school you like without proactively consulting him unless he actually tells you that he is definitely going to have practical input such as viewing them too? He'll probably not even get around to it will he?

choco, you're doing so well. I remember clearly the first thread you started and you've been an inspiration in the way you've handled things. I'm just going through the CAFCASS/court route myself and have had to submit a form C1A, which is where you provide details of abuse to both you and the children. You can download it online if you ever want to have a look. I posted my forms back to court today, so I know social services will be ringing me up very soon, as will CAFCASS, and have warned both the DC's schools to expect a call. I'm happy to hold your hand along the way if you'll find it helps!

Midwife99 Tue 29-Jan-13 21:43:45

I think you'll get alot of protection & support via the CAFCASS route. Esp with DA & HV 's input. It won't be you saying no to certain things to him, it will be third parties who are impartial & have children's best interests at heart.

AnAirOfHope Tue 29-Jan-13 21:46:07

sad

Good luck for the future

Skyebluesapphire Tue 29-Jan-13 22:20:57

math has a good point about choosing several schools, so he doesnt know which one is your favourite...

he does have a legal right over their education, to decide where they go to school, along with religion and healthcare apparantly, the only things that you have to get their agreement on.

Luckily because there is one school here, within walking distance and it is the best school for miles around... there was no discussion with my XH.

It would be a shame if he were awkward with you just for the sake of it, but of course you cant trust him on anything any more..

cheeseandpineapple Tue 29-Jan-13 22:28:39

Matilda, Choco, thanks for the "wise" credit but must confess to borrowing the wisdom a friend after she did a stress management course. What little she told me, particularly the point about "acceptance" really stayed with me. Not advocating being a doormat but recognising the situations or aspects of a situation which you can and can't control and then react accordingly.

From what I understand, where you can exert control and have a certain amount of power, taking action and increasing your resources to deal with the situation can help you manage a stressful but changeable situation. To that end, Choco, you're doing that by researching your options and looking into practical choices to manage the situation in a way that might work better for you. Hopefully this will help reduce your stress in dealing/communicating with arse wipe and turtle head (she really is an annoying little shit who currently, isn't going anywhere and appears to be perfectly happy stuck where she is).

Where you have limited control and influence on a situation, you can mitigate the stress by adapting your emotional response and perception of events to minimise how the situation affects you emotionally.

Where you have no control over events or a situation, acceptance is meant to be the most effective approach. Usually most applicable in the case of some kind of loss.

Well that's the theory and there's a bit of everything going on in your scenario Choco.

So, am guessing some stress managment guru might say -making practical changes where you can, to suit you, should help reduce some of your stress and sense of lack of power. Where you end up compromising, you need to focus on the positive achievements and not be tough on yourself if the arrangements aren't exactly how you want them to be. As for the general inequity of you and your kids having to go through all this crap, well that you have no control over, you've experienced a major loss and that's the part that you will hopefully come to accept, including your lack of power or choice in the matter. It is what it is.

But doesn't mean you accept shitty arrangements which don't suit you. That you fight.

As for your money concerns, get writing, you have a flair, there's a book coming out of all this with your name written all over it. Fiction or non fiction, we'll all buy it but only if you promise to name and shame!

cheeseandpineapple Tue 29-Jan-13 22:53:36

Ps, if you do write a book, I gift you the title, "Turtlehead", the story of a pain in the arse you just can't shift, Choco's courageous tale in overcoming that obstacle with grace, dignity and sheer bloody determination, without straining.

It's all yours!!

MusicForTheMasses Wed 30-Jan-13 07:25:47

Just adding my support. I would be tempted to just choose the school as you are obviously not going to just go eeny meeny miney moe. Also it's not just a case of walking into the school of your choice it's not necessarily that simple.

Hugs as ever to you, inspirational lady! X

Midwife99 Wed 30-Jan-13 07:43:24

Quite - the 1st 2nd & 3rd choice nightmare!

BerylStreep Wed 30-Jan-13 08:56:12

Oh a book is a brilliant idea!

cheeseandpineapple Wed 30-Jan-13 09:58:52

Loving your name, Beryl! Why is it that Meryl is actually quite a pretty and sophisticated name and Beryl, well, it's the polar opposite. It all turns on that one letter...

Ingenious though! I think you should write a book too, any book, I'd buy it if only to have something by a Beryl Streep!

BerylStreep Wed 30-Jan-13 10:19:02

grin

McBuckers Wed 30-Jan-13 11:32:45

Just want to add my support Choco, you're brilliant!

My three kids met the OW for the first time this weekend.

Luckily my friend did the handovers so I didn't have to come face to face with the home wrecking whore.

Must admit that the thought of her grubby mitts on my 8mth old baby makes me feel physically sick!

getthegirladrink Wed 30-Jan-13 11:38:01

Hugs McBuckers, my DS is 8 months too & I would literally puke my guts up if I had to do anything like that.
Choco - hugs too. Can't add anything to what everyone else has said, but you. Are. Cool. smile

Walkacrossthesand Wed 30-Jan-13 12:04:38

Joining thread late as ever I was where you are re having to let 3 DCs (all preschool/infant school age) go to ex and the OW. The marriage hadn't been abusive, and there was never any hint of them calling her Mummy, but boy was it hard - when they were with him it felt like he 'had it all' & I had nothing. He's still with her nearly 20years on, and I'm still single (but I think I'm unusual in that respect, not in a good way!) but I picked up on an earlier remark you made, choco - I too worried for a bit that my approach of being very dignified, not badmouthing him or OW, hiding my pain from my little DCs (but not from my friends) would somehow give DCs the idea that it was OK for a man to leave his wife for OW, because look - mummy doesn't seem to mind! Hopefully as they get older they will understand, and be in a position to form good relationships themselves. Hang in there choco, time will pass and you know how to lead a good and unselfish life - that counts for a lot.

Skyebluesapphire Wed 30-Jan-13 13:12:47

I don't see that you need his permission as to which preschool you send your child to, as long as it is good, and DS likes it, thats all that matters and I don't see how your XH can really have much input in that, as it is you who has to take him there etc, so it does need to be convenient for you.

You won't be able to register your child for actual school until he is 4 (?) anyway, and hopefully things will be settled down a bit by then.

chocoreturns Wed 30-Jan-13 13:15:32

thank you so much for everyone's replies - I've only got 5 minutes between baby napping and eating some lunch otherwise I'd reply to people properly. I just wanted to say that I'm feeling ok today. As usual the tidal wave of emotion has subsided and I am left with a mixture of sadness and resignation.

My beautiful boys make it ok. I've had a little love in with DS2 this morning, who has just started face lunging kissing me of his own accord. Despite him licking my face rather a lot, it is just so very lovely. Especially listening to him laughing right down to his belly every time.

I know that those of you who've been through this kind of dreadful weekend will understand how much it helps when one of those moments comes along (especially after energy-sucking nights of pacing the hall with a screaming, teething monster). It reminds me that I get all the glorious, meaningful, heartwarming moments that I wanted when I became a parent. And I know that whether STBXH gets them too isn't the point. I'm just bloody glad the children love me to bits (and so vocally too!!).

Aren't baby snogs all over your cheeks just the best?? grin

porridgeLover Wed 30-Jan-13 13:21:02

OOOOh I'm jealous choco. Those are the best bits. mmmmmmmm

And, again, you are so wise to focus on those bits and lock thoughts of twunt and turtlehead (T&T?) out of your head. They dont deserve the space.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 30-Jan-13 13:21:45

grin Lovely image choco.

musicismylife Wed 30-Jan-13 13:31:00

The worm always turns, OP. You can only start to feel better from now on...

I take my hat off to you and I think that by you being nice, will take the wind out of her sales.

BornToFolk Wed 30-Jan-13 13:52:43

Aw, yes, those slobbery baby kisses are the best! He sounds like a happy little fella, and you know that's because of you, don't you?

oh that sounds so good! DS2's warm little month-old head is nestled in my neck, burping like a grown man in a bar admittedly, but these feelings are so precious! during the 45 min car drive to the hospital which was also incidentally the entire dilation phase of my labour (!) I focused on imagining the feeling of a baby's head on my shoulder and breath on my neck to get me through the contractions. Boy, those are powerful hormones! grin

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 30-Jan-13 14:11:26

the feeling of a baby's head on my shoulder and breath on my neck <melts>

Midwife99 Wed 30-Jan-13 17:50:38

The smell of their soft downy hair!!! Bliss!! I secretly sniff babies heads at work :-)

Furby2000 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:43:29

Being a parent is about putting the kids first, this is what you will be doing even in very difficult circumstances. Do it and be proud of yourself, hopefully this will set the tone for a civil relationship between all three of you where the kids needs are always put first. Do it and be proud of yourself!

Furby2000 Wed 30-Jan-13 18:50:44

Sorry, new to mn, have just worked out that you have done it so well done!

Ds has started giving me big slobbery kisses and I love them! Those definitely are the things getting me through at the moment.

We are staying at my mums since fuck head ended everything, and we are sharing a bed. Every night when I put him to bed and snuggle down with him he wraps his hand around my thumb and strokes my face. Perfect smile

chocoreturns Wed 30-Jan-13 20:38:42

most nights I start with DS2 in bed with me, and end up in DS1's bed when he wakes up at some ungodly hour. I go from baby snuggles and snuffles to toddler cuddles. DS1 likes to stroke my hair and give me 'eskimo kisses', and when I'm tired he rubs his teddy's hand across my cheek, the same way he rubs it across his own as he falls asleep at night.

Goodness knows how I'll ever spend the night with an actual MAN again, because they couldn't come close to the loveliness I get from my baby boys!! grin

A friend of mine asked if I wanted a toddler bed for ds until I move into my own house and will get all of the furniture from old house. I politely declined as snuggles with ds are just what I need at the mo. selfish I know

I hope you're feeling ok choco.

ProphetOfDoom Wed 30-Jan-13 20:52:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chocoreturns Wed 30-Jan-13 21:54:36

so... MIL text to ask if she can drop by tomorrow for coffee, it was a friendly text. I am just going to take it as it comes. Fingers crossed it's a nice no nonsense coffee. I'm happy to spend time with her, but on reflection, not to justify or to explain myself in any way.

SIL2 just told me I am a hero in her eyes grin can't be all bad...

porridgeLover Wed 30-Jan-13 21:59:04

Is SIL2 a sister to twunt? She sounds wonderfully sane in spite of it!

Enjoy coffee tomorrow; I hope it's not a case of her coming around to express her disappointment in you now that 'she knows the whole story' (my exMIL hmm).
Absolutely dont engage in justifying yourself; it will fall on deaf ears I suspect.

chocoreturns Wed 30-Jan-13 22:07:42

It's simple really, phase two of disengagement. I've told the people who matter how I feel about them. It doesn't bear repeating and the whole point in the first place was to make it possible to be civil and move on... so, I will be walking the walk tomorrow by treating it as water under the bridge and letting her know she's a valued granny. who's opinion of what I said to her son and OW isn't terribly important

chocoreturns Wed 30-Jan-13 22:09:33

gosh, don't I sound confident there? lol.

would that I were

slambang Wed 30-Jan-13 22:13:35

Perhaps you could express bemused bafflement about why for the love of god OW is getting called mummy though... angry

Probably good she's keeping the lines of communication open though, I guess

ProphetOfDoom Wed 30-Jan-13 22:26:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chocoreturns Wed 30-Jan-13 22:37:11

she doesn't know about the DA advisor. I told stepFIL about the mummy comments. I think I need to not give a stuff though about their take on it, and remember that they are only in my life because they are fantastic grandparents who have bent over backwards to keep my children safe at all times. They aren't perfect and we may not be able to stay close friends, but as long as I focus on the role they have in a good way, I'll be able to steer it away from anything that isn't helpful. I have chosen not to talk about the intimate details of the DA with his mum because I didn't feel it was fair to put her in that position. I still feel that unless I'm directly asked, I should leave his family to make up their own minds. They aren't stupid and wouldn't have gone half as far as they have done this year to help me out if they had no idea.

Gratitude for what they've done will help me more than being cross about their limits I suspect.

MumVsKids Wed 30-Jan-13 22:37:15

I'm in awe of you choco, I've spent the last four days reading your threads and your blog right from the very start.

I'm proud of you for being so strong, and I wish you well smile

I hope the twunt of STBXH gets a bad dose of knob-rot very very soon. He deserves to be neutered for the appalling way he has behaved towards you and your boys.

chocoreturns Wed 30-Jan-13 22:38:34

I actually feel really sad for MIL sad she had a 17 year abusive marriage to his dad, and knows only too well what her son (STBXH )is like, I don't think she could bear it if I spelled it out to her.

chocoreturns Wed 30-Jan-13 22:39:28

grin @ MumVsKids. That's a vision for me to go to bed with! Hahaha. I hope he does too grin

Alibabaandthe40nappies Wed 30-Jan-13 22:46:25

choco you are an amazing woman, your boys are so lucky to have you for their Mum. Your spirit and generosity shine out through your posts and really humble me, because I know I don't have it in me to be as forgiving and empathetic as you are being.

Sleep well smile I have two little boys and their love and cuddles are just the best (sorry DH)

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 30-Jan-13 23:02:34

MIL has had her share of bad marriage too then? She should be able to see you'd not easily forget OW got acquainted with DS1 by bouncing with her idiot son your ex in your marital bed, surrounded by photos of pfb. Even without you being pregnant by then with DS2 that scored low on the classy-ways-to-end-a-marriage register.

She may be a good granny and a useful buffer beween you and that skanky couple but she's liable to parrot anything you say back to him. Thank goodness his sister(s) showed he's not fooled them and you are still respected.

Skyebluesapphire Thu 31-Jan-13 00:23:16

I hope coffee goes ok tomorrow. She may just be making sure that everything is still ok between you and her. I am sure that they don't want to lose contact with their grandchildren and like you say, you have done everything you can to facilitate contact with them.

If she starts on about twunt, just say, "I'm sorry, I would rather not talk about him today. Would you like a biscuit/piece of cake/whatever you have on offer?"

MumVsKids Thu 31-Jan-13 05:05:45

grin
Glad I made you smile before bed grin

AgathaF Thu 31-Jan-13 07:12:50

Hope coffee with MIL goes well today choco. You deserve a break from twunt waving his shitty stick in your face.

MusicForTheMasses Thu 31-Jan-13 08:38:37

Thinking of you today. X

pinkbraces Thu 31-Jan-13 09:10:01

Hi Choco,
I havent posted for ages but am keeping up to date with you. I just want to add my admiration along with the others for the way you keep handling things. Your boys are so lucky that your their mum.

I hope coffee goes well x

LifeSavedbyLego Thu 31-Jan-13 09:22:03

Good luck today choco. I've just re read all your threads and blog ( not a stalker honest) and you have such grace and dignity it is unbelievable!

P.s. if you ever want to raise the chair leg wielding posse, I'm in.

bamboozled Thu 31-Jan-13 09:42:04

Hope coffee goes well x

chocoreturns Thu 31-Jan-13 09:49:22

thanks all, I'll be back to report later... x

cheeseandpineapple Thu 31-Jan-13 10:30:33

Morning Choco, hope it goes well.

Waiting patiently to hear back, don't leave us in suspense for too long!

Having an MN browsey morning, got repairmen here, making loads of noise so I can't work, well that's my excuse.. Lots of interesting threads today but always keen to hear your updates Choco. There's someone in chat who's husband has basically decided he doesn't want to have a child with her, she's 14 weeks pregnant and just discovering what an absolute disgrace he is.

So many complete shits out there who spread their sperm but won't face up to their responsibilities.

There's another thread asking what we would want girls to know.

Sadly, they need to know that no matter what decisions they make about themselves, their future and the people they choose to share their lives with, they must always have the confidence and capacity to be self sufficient should the need ever arise. You're living proof Choco of what girls need to be capable of, your strength is inspiring.

Thumbwitch Thu 31-Jan-13 10:42:41

Goodness choco, you absolute star!

I'm pretty sure I remember your previous thread(s) and am oh so sorry the way things are going. I don't know how it is that men like this do get away with behaving like utter twatbadgers, nor why they feel the need to. It's just tragic.

You, though, are doing a grand job. Despite the heartwrenching awfulness.

I hope things go well with your MIL today and yes, I agree that she is unlikely to want her son's shittiness spelled out to her - my MIL has a shitty son too (not DH, his brother) and she just gets defensive over his appallingness (alcoholic abusiveness, complete wastrel, user, sponger, embarrassment to her etc.) because he's her boy. So is DH, of course, but even he can't say too much to her about his brother without her going fully on the defensive. We have a restraining order against him coming to the house because of his violent tendencies when drunk.

Anyway, that's an aside - I hope your MIL does decide to stay friendly with you (genuinely, of course) - but I agree that moving away from needing their support in any way is the best plan. Then you can choose whether or not to stay in touch if they ever overstep the line again.

ChippingInLovesMN Thu 31-Jan-13 11:35:51

You have such clarity of thought... you are brilliant. You are very kind and generous and your DB's will grow up like you, not him!

Hope the coffee goes OK!

Hello Choco. I've been referred to your thread from mine. You're probably getting bored with hearing this now, but you are so brave and dignified and you sound like a brilliant Mum. smile

My Twunt (known affectionately as the Chunt, for it is he who took all the Chutney) left me 4 days before I found out I was pregnant. We were undergoing fertility treatment. He left me for OW who was at that stage 5 months pregnant. I had no idea he was having an affair. Anyway, I'm now 33 weeks pregnant and facing life as a single parent. Chunt is still with OW , who has since had her child. She doesn't know that his wife is expecting,....... hmm

I relate to many parts of your story, but understand how important it is to disengage from the Twuntery and head fuckery. My Chunt has contacted me on and off during the last few months. The contact has either been threats (I'm not paying the mortgage, I'm going to divorce you, don't go ahead with the pregnancy etc), to pleading 'pity me' emails (I miss you, I miss holding you, I've lost my one great love). I don't trust one word he says - like you say it is all only about him. It is only necessary to engage with these prats on the bare necessities. My Chunt still wants control over me and I'm determined he is never ever going to have it again.

Thing is I am also finding the keep dignified/restrained versus not being a pushover quite difficult at times too.

Anyway, just sending you lots of good vibes and hand holding. MN is a godsend, isn't it?

Lou x

[adds people to the Posse mailing list ]
[adds nails to chair leg]
[bides]

Midwife99 Thu 31-Jan-13 13:59:07

Hope it went ok - remember no one is allowed to manipulate you no matter how much they dress it up as "support"!!