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Missing condoms

(289 Posts)
calidadsuprema Fri 25-Jan-13 23:52:11

Hi - namechanged for this.

DP and I have been together almost 3 years. We moved in together a few months ago.

Over the festive break I was looking in the medicine drawer for a sticking plaster and came across about 4 condoms tucked in a paracetomol box. We don't use condoms. Date on them was 2014. I assumed DP might have had them since before we met so said nothing at the time.

Fast forward to tonight - my DD felt unwell so I went to medicine drawer for Calpol sachets. For some reason I remembered the condoms and had a look for them. They are missing. DP is 3 days into a 10 day overseas work trip 8 hours time zone ahead. He doesn't usually travel overseas with work. I have put 2 and 2 together and don't like what I am thinking.....I sent a text about half an hour ago to tell him what I have found, saying that it does not look good from where I am standing.

dequoisagitil Fri 25-Jan-13 23:56:03

There's no purpose for a condom.

dequoisagitil Fri 25-Jan-13 23:56:15

other

frustratedworkingmum Fri 25-Jan-13 23:58:29

could he have thrown them away?

deleted203 Fri 25-Jan-13 23:58:51

Oh dear. It doesn't look good. But the best thing you have done is to text him and confront him rather than burying your head in the sand and then driving yourself insane with worrying about it. You need to hear what he has to say before you do any more. Good luck.

calidadsuprema Fri 25-Jan-13 23:59:06

DP has just texted back to say that he had picked up the paracetomol for his trip and has the condoms (unused!) with him. Says he is vv happy to be with me and loves me. Genuine??

lubeybooby Fri 25-Jan-13 23:59:47

condoms with a date of 2014 would have been purchased in around 2011/12

I have some from 2011 that have 2014 date

deleted203 Sat 26-Jan-13 00:02:20

Yes, I would think so. It sounds like an honest mistake. I would put it out of your mind and trust him, unless you have had doubts over his faithfulness before. I would just say, 'ok, I believe you' and perhaps discuss it further when he returns. It's perfectly reasonable in the circumstances to ask him why he took them, and even why he has them if you feel the need. They may be old ones.

Does he normally take parecetamol with him while travelling? But then again if he needed condoms, surely he could have bought some over there? What country is he in?

DeafLeopard Sat 26-Jan-13 00:03:34

YY to shelf life of condoms. It doesn't necessarily mean an affair as I've heard mention on MN of a posh wank

ArmyOfPenguins Sat 26-Jan-13 00:03:47

Why would he have taken them to the new house and then thrown them away?

He's cheating/planning to.

chewingguminmyhair Sat 26-Jan-13 00:04:02

Using them for a posh wank?

sarahseashell Sat 26-Jan-13 00:04:16

why were condoms in paracetamol box in the first place?

ArmyOfPenguins Sat 26-Jan-13 00:05:16

Sorry, x post. Hopefully he'll bring all four back then.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:05:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

vigglewiggle Sat 26-Jan-13 00:06:07

I would check the date on the condoms he brings back.

frustratedworkingmum Sat 26-Jan-13 00:07:02

I just googled and the shelf life of condoms seems to vary from company to company but some, trojan being an example hmm last up to five years.

What bugs me is tht they were in a paracetemol packet and not just in their own packet. But if i were hiding condoms from my partner id not leave them in the medicine cabinet so......... it depends on how much you trust him. Do you have chilren?

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:07:29

The posh wank theory might fit...he does admit to wanking on UK overnight business trips....

frustratedworkingmum Sat 26-Jan-13 00:07:47

WTF is a posh wank?

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:08:40

Frustrated - we do have kids, but none together. His teens visit and my DD (10) lives with us.

dequoisagitil Sat 26-Jan-13 00:08:44

Wanking into a condom to save mess, is a posh wank.

sarahseashell Sat 26-Jan-13 00:09:35

but why were the condoms in a paracetamol packet?

and don't they normally come in 3s or 12s?? confused

I'm a bit hmm that bringing these same 4 back proves he hasn't cheated! he could buy them out there

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:09:39

I'm presuming a "posh wank" is a diy job into a condom to avoid mess??

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:10:34

Posh wanking is a myth, perpetuated by those who make excuses for unfaithful men

ArmyOfPenguins Sat 26-Jan-13 00:11:06

Men don't have posh wanks.

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:11:17

OP, the condom thing could be innocent, but "posh wanking" it ain't

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:11:32

sarah, yes the paracetomol box thing is confusing me a bit. He is a bit of a neat freak, so fitting things into boxes not to have them scattered through the medicine drawer would be his thing

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:12:26

My medicine cabinet has random things wedged into different boxes to keep it all tidy

SwedishEdith Sat 26-Jan-13 00:13:42

Ask him for the expiry date?

newbiefrugalgal Sat 26-Jan-13 00:14:25

Dodgy

sarahseashell Sat 26-Jan-13 00:15:11

ok and could be 'hiding' from dd I suppose - but if you don't use them why is he keeping them? perhaps for emergencies if you're on the pill I suppose.. did you use them at the beginning of the relationship or has he had them over 3 years?

vigglewiggle Sat 26-Jan-13 00:15:15

He could buy more out there, but he has had 3 days when he didn't know he would be rumbled. If he bring back 4 unused condoms, but with differing use-by dates then she has her answer.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:15:58

AF, that's what he does - e.g lemsip sachets in with sticking plaster etc. He does need paracetomol right now for back pain. We have been v happy since we moved in so this is a it of a shock to me.

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:17:20

I do that, cal

you said the work trip was unusual

what do you mean by that ?

do you think he might have engineered a jaunt somewhere ?

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:18:06

I am on pill and have infertility issues as well (pill for endometriosis). Embarrassed to admit we never used condoms even at start....not smart I know.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:19:46

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ArmyOfPenguins Sat 26-Jan-13 00:20:26

If he generally puts different things in different boxes, would he not have checked that the paracetamol box actually contained paracetamol before packing it?

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:20:37

No, not smart. But not really the point here.

Will you ask to see the 4 condoms on his return, cal?

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:21:19

Who else is on the trip ?

dequoisagitil Sat 26-Jan-13 00:21:22

Look, it's simple.

Do you and dh need condoms?

Is there any plausible* excuse he needs condoms?

* plausible is dependent on what you can forgive.

As others have said "posh wank" is a total myth.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:23:42

Yes, I will check on his return. Have been through a difficult divorce in last 4 years so thought DP one of the good guys - so far he has been fantastic...but feeling a bit confused at the moment

chewingguminmyhair Sat 26-Jan-13 00:25:11

Yes, men actually do posh wanks. They really do. It's an option.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:25:15

He is not on trip with anyone he works with. He is in quite a senior role in his industry and has been asked on trade mission by economic development agency for our part of UK

dequoisagitil Sat 26-Jan-13 00:25:47

I have a feeling that my plausible, will not be yours.

ArmyOfPenguins Sat 26-Jan-13 00:26:24

"For some reason I remembered the condoms and had a look for them."

Did you have a feeling something was not right?

chewinggum - I'm a man. I don't. And when this came up once before, I asked around. None of my mates had even heard of a posh wank.

chewingguminmyhair Sat 26-Jan-13 00:27:01

Not everyone is a cheating arsehole (as much as some posters on here like seem to think they are)

sarahseashell Sat 26-Jan-13 00:27:02

OP my heart goes out to you- you need to be able to see him and chat with him and have-what- a week till he gets back. I hope you're okay. Could be a mix up who knows

SoggySummer Sat 26-Jan-13 00:27:56

3 years ago would tie in with 2010 for a possible purchase of condoms. He may have used some before he met you. He may have mislaid some before he met you.

When I say lost - if a single bloke carries a couple of spare condoms in his waller, jacket pocket "just in case" then after time they will become crap - get lost damaged - may even be crinkled up in some pocket somewere perhaps?? I liken it to a tampax in my handbag - some are destined never to be used and chucked in the bin as they get damaged in the bag.

I think this is genuine if there was nothing before this to make you suspicious.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:29:21

Army, no issues, just thought about it when I was in medicine drawer. I have a pretty good memory so it flashed into my mind.

akaemmafrost Sat 26-Jan-13 00:29:39

I have asked a number of male friends about posh wanks after hearing about them on here. All men looked like confused.

I would think he was cheating, sorry. What are you going to do next OP?

chewinggum - of course they aren't. but there are only two uses for condoms. one is sex. the other is when you're short of balloons. they may well be 'old' and he may well not be a cheating arsehole. but the posh wank thing is a total red herring. if a guy wants a wank, he has one and makes use of toilet roll - its cheaper and you flush it away immediately

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:31:02

sarah - he's not back until Feb 3.

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:31:51

chewing read the thread, don't be a buckethead

not everyone on this thread is shouting "cheat" immediately

anyone would think you had an agenda

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:32:50

akaemma I have texted him to say that I trust him but that we will need to have a talk when he gets back.

dequoisagitil Sat 26-Jan-13 00:33:37

No blokes other than cheaters, ime, have ever heard of posh wanks.

They do tend to be proud of keeping you 'safe' 'though.

sarahseashell Sat 26-Jan-13 00:33:56

sad really hard to be having to deal with this just now it'll seem like ages I know. I hope your dd is okay btw and I hope you have some things planned to pass the time while dp away. I don't think you can jump to any conclusions, you need to see him face to face

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:36:15

sarah DD is much better - seems to have been trapped wind!!! I work full time Mon-Fri so will be busy. However DD is going to exH tomorrow so the quite weekend I had planned will now involve lots of thinking

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:37:40

let us know how it goes, cal

meditrina Sat 26-Jan-13 00:42:30

The condoms I bought a couple of months ago have a 2017 expiry date (Durex), so it looks as if 4+ years is a normal shelf life. They could therefore have pre-dated you relationship or been bought by him in the early and hopeful days. He could have shoved them in the paracetamol box before he moved in with you, and they could have arrived in your house like that.

If he were hiding guilty condoms, how likely is it that he would leave them in a medicine drawer you both use, in a box of a medicine you might pick up? Or are there no other, better hiding places?

Yes, you'll have to check they all come back and appear to be the same ones.

Has he done anything else that concerns you?

Kathy420 Sat 26-Jan-13 00:44:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

chewingguminmyhair Sat 26-Jan-13 00:46:05

You've found me out AnyFucker, I do have an agenda. I run Cheaters Pretending To Posh Wank Ltd. confused

Hope you get it sorted OP.

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:46:24

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:46:47

Kathy what do you mean by that?

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:47:09

cal, just ignore it

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 00:48:03

Ok I will ignore the troll! Off to bed now - thanks all, will post again with an update.

dequoisagitil Sat 26-Jan-13 00:48:41

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

frustratedworkingmum Sat 26-Jan-13 00:48:51

Does Kathy have an HGV license?

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 00:49:04

no chewing I wondered if you had an agenda in calling all posters on this thread out for telling OP he is cheating

because not everybody has

but you would think so, according to you

howdoo Sat 26-Jan-13 00:49:48

I am quite cynical but, given what you've said, this sounds plausible. He has condoms which were bought before you got together. He is a neat freak who tucks things into other things. He has back pain so took paracetemol on business trip. He is not on trip with anyone he works with. His text back was loving and not defensive.

Sounds fine to me!

ManInBeige Sat 26-Jan-13 00:51:20

Never heard of a posh wank.

That text back sounds legit.

dontyouwantmebaby Sat 26-Jan-13 00:53:49

what's your excuse then kathy420?

OP - hope its nothing to worry about and all is okay, however only thing that troubles me is if he, as you say, has to use paracetamol regularly then how old is the box of paracetamol and if its fairly recent-ish, then why would there be condoms in it?

dontyouwantmebaby Sat 26-Jan-13 00:55:21

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Jellykat Sat 26-Jan-13 00:58:13

Going against the grain here, but i know men who have posh wanks into condoms.. (or wank socks)

ZenNudist Sat 26-Jan-13 00:59:01

Benefit of the doubt for now. Would not even check his condoms surely demeaning? Keep an eye out but by and large relationships built on trust have got to be best. If he does start to cheat you'll be wary.

Charbon Sat 26-Jan-13 01:08:49

I wonder why you didn't mention finding condoms in a paracetomol packet when you found them over Christmas? Or why you didn't ask him whether he wanted to dispose of them?

Like others, I wonder whether subconsciously even, you had a sixth sense that they would be missing when he went away.

SaraBellumHertz Sat 26-Jan-13 03:52:07

I'm amazed how many posters have not said he us cheating.

There is only one use for condoms: sex. If your DP is purchasing them whilst you are in a relationship then he is cheating or planning to.

On the off chance these condoms predate your relationship then since you as a couple have never used them the obvious thing for your DP to do is not tuck them in a box but through them away - why on earth would he keep something you don't and have never used?

Beyond that taking them away makes no sense at all. 4 condoms don't easily fit in a paracetamol box containing actual paracetamol so again a neat freak would bin them at this juncture.

I'm sorry OP - I'm usually pretty good at giving the benefit of the doubt but this scenario stinks

SnowBusiness Sat 26-Jan-13 07:20:53

Tell him you wrote down the serial numbers

prozacbear Sat 26-Jan-13 07:45:25

I'm on the fence ...

On the one hand, I can completely see this scenario happening, as I am in possession of old condoms! God knows when I bought them (I don't remember it but clearly I must've done), certainly more than 2 years ago, and I've no intention of using them! DP and I are about to move in together, and I've just packed them without even thinking about it (I am a hoarder, perhaps your DP is too?). If DP found them, he'd be very hmm ... which reminds me, must go and throw them away.

On the other hand - the fact that your DP's condoms managed to migrate with him on a business trip is a bit worrying. If he takes paracetamol regularly, surely he'd have happened across them by now and thrown them away? Where does he think they came from? Condoms don't just appear from the condom fairy - does he recall purchasing them, truffling them away?? It's just a bit too much of a condom story, iyswim. Were I you, I'd check them on his return, try to verify they're the same ones.

meditrina Sat 26-Jan-13 08:05:32

Well, unless he has used all 4 already, then they will come back as he now knows OP knows.

maleview70 Sat 26-Jan-13 08:42:55

Bit far fetched to think he would put them in the medicine box and then decide to take them without even thinking you have noticed.

Any bloke who was thinking of cheating would surely just buy them at the airport...wouldn't they?

BranchingOut Sat 26-Jan-13 09:06:25

On the one hand, I know of someone who used condoms by himself, as he 'enjoyed using them'. hmm

On the other, it is a bit strange that he didn't open the paracetamol box before he went, as generally you would just check how many tablets were in there before going.

kittybiscuits Sat 26-Jan-13 09:08:28

Posh wank....do me a favour....rolls eyes!

I think it's possible there is an innocent explanation OP (which definitely won't involve a posh wank). Did you indicate to your partner that you counted them and know the expiry date? If not, keep that to yourself and see what he brings back. If he 'throws them away' you have a problem.

medtrina he's already been away 3 days so had ample time to use them and OP knows the expiry date.

Hope it's all innocent OP x

Xales Sat 26-Jan-13 09:08:36

Agree with meditrina. If he was planning on cheating he may not have yet. Nothing to stop him buying others and bringing the original ones back. You may never know now.

Did you have any doubts before?

meditrina Sat 26-Jan-13 09:29:39

kittybiscuits that's 3 days out of 10. So still 7 (including weekend) to go. Who knows the timetable? Or if there is one at all.

I tend to agree with maleview70 that he'd buy at the airport and chuck away any unused ones, rather than leave ones at home.

ImperialBlether Sat 26-Jan-13 10:14:32

This doesn't make sense.

If the OP's partner suffers from back pain and regularly takes paracetemol, then that implies that the paracetemol box was relatively new. Also, there is no way he wouldn't have counted the tablets beforehand because he'd struggle if he didn't have enough.

I'm sorry, OP, but I just don't believe that he's not using the condoms. If he's a neat freak and they were old, surely they would be in their own box?

arthriticfingers Sat 26-Jan-13 10:48:35

Another 'condom' thread confused!? What's the betting this one, too, will just fizzle out? hmm

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 26-Jan-13 11:23:17

This thread bothers me too confused

I can understand people having condoms at home for emergencies (e.g if one forget to take the pill etc) but why take some with you on a business trip.

A neat freak would have left behind the condoms - while packing, he would have checked the box and removed anything that would not be required.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 26-Jan-13 11:24:21

maleview70 - you would be amazed at at how basic many cheaters' slip ups can be. This often happen when they become complacent.

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 12:01:55

Still wobbling between "dodgy" and "could be an innocent explanation, at a very small pinch" here

although, FWIW, ibuprofen is better for back pain than paracetamol (it being an anti inflammatory)

a regular back pain sufferer should know that

kittybiscuits Sat 26-Jan-13 12:02:27

And/or stingy!

SorryMyLollipop Sat 26-Jan-13 12:52:38

Posh wanks definitely do happen. My STBXH did it a few times when I was in the same room as him. We lived together for 16 yrs. He was very loyal and there were never any suspicions of cheating,missing condoms etc so it was never used as an excuse. He just enjoyed it. I think he enjoyed the fantasy build up to sex. Some men do, some men don't.

Saying it doesn't happen because some men who you've asked don't do it is just ignorant. It does happen.

OP, talk to him when he gets back and listen to your instincts.

BelaLugosisShed Sat 26-Jan-13 14:20:39

Hmm, I think there may be a condom thread fetishist to go with the Poo Troll.

Every few months, regular as clockwork and never, ever resolved.

Missbopeep Sat 26-Jan-13 15:42:53

But the OP and this guy have only lived together for a few months.

Question is- did he know that she knew the condoms were in the cabinet?

OP- when did you "find" them?
Do you never check your medicine cabinet?
Have you never needed paracetamol since he moved in with you- or you him? Whose home do you live in?

Are you living in a home which he had which pre-dates your relationship?

For me the concern is not so much why they are missing now but how they got there in the first place- and when.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 16:21:05

Thanks for all the replies. DP called the house twice this morning while I was out and he eventually got me on mobile.

He said he understood why I was upset and worried but that he just threw a few things from the medicine drawer in his washbag. He totally gets how bad it looks from my point of view.

I asked why he had condoms in the first place he said that they predate our relationship. I do have some in my bedside drawer which date from the very start of our relationship which I bought in anticipation of relationship with him - never got used as I am on pill and have IF issues anyway....stupid I know from STD POV but that's history now.

Re why did I not mention them before when I noticed them at Xmas - I just assumed that he (like me!) had some in stock at the start of our relationship. Its the fact that they ended up with him on the business trip that is bothering me.

I don't really use the medicine drawer for my stuff - generally keep mine in my bedside drawer. But we do keep "family" meds such as calpol/suncream/piriton etc in the medicine drawer so he knows I go in there.

It was difficult to talk fully about over x thousand miles and 8 hours time diff - I was pulled over in car and he was in a shopping centre noodle cafe. Will talk more fully once he gets home.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 16:22:16

Missbopeep - we moved into a place that is new to both of us. We are renting and I still have my own home - renting it out.

Missbopeep Sat 26-Jan-13 16:32:58

I think he is being honest.

He wasn't to know if you knew what was in that packet all the time it was in the medicine chest- was he?
So it would be a very foolish man who took condoms which his partner knew was there away with him.

Especially when you can buy them in most loos, garages, shops etc etc.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 16:36:07

Missbopeep I am giving him benefit of the doubt for now. I agree that if someone wanted to cheat and hide it from their partner they would get condoms from elsewhere.

AnyFucker Sat 26-Jan-13 16:56:02

I am a notoriously unforgiving bugger with a highly tuned twat radar

I think there is room for doubt here, and have felt it from the beginning of your thread.

I would still say you have played a blinder in hanging on to your property though. Don't sell it for a while yet.

calidadsuprema Sat 26-Jan-13 16:58:50

AF - no intentions of letting house go! Thanks for input

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sat 26-Jan-13 17:53:42

Smells a lot like shit to me op sorry.

tackies Sun 27-Jan-13 09:31:48

But in fairness if he picked up the paracetmol why didnt he just throw the condoms back in the drawer. sounds very fishy to me. Id be tearin him a new one when he comes home!

rhondajean Sun 27-Jan-13 10:55:50

Tackles I think the point was he grabbed the paracetamol packet not realising Thr condoms were in it at the moment.

If he returns with all condoms, with same date, in the packet, I'd be tempted to let this one go. Especially. He didn't use condoms with you at the start of the relationship, I wouldn't be thinking that having them with him would be a high priority.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 27-Jan-13 11:15:21

But if he wanted condoms he could just buy some and bring the paracetamol ones home... if he wanted to cheat on you, OP. Listen to your gut feeling.

Isitme1 Sun 27-Jan-13 11:18:12

Just sounds like he forgot the condoms were in there.
If he was cheating I would of thought he'd be more defensive and that but will know more when hr gets back
X
Good luck
X

YouSayWhaaat Sun 27-Jan-13 16:49:22

DO NOT tell him the expiry date!

When he brings then back you will then know whether they are the ones he went out with or replacements.

Not conclusive proof of course cos if he is also this devious he might twig you know the expiry and use new ones.

Could all be innocent though.

CalamityKate Sun 27-Jan-13 16:57:19

Hmm.

What usually happens in this house is you go to the paracetamol packet and someone's used them all up. Therefore I would NEVER just chuck the box in my luggage/bag without checking what was in it. Your house might be more efficient though!

ImperialBlether Sun 27-Jan-13 17:34:24

That's what I thought, Kate. I need to take them and would always check that the packet was full. If he has back problems, I'd assume he'd do the same.

SaraBellumHertz Sun 27-Jan-13 20:18:41

There is no way he didn't know the condoms were in the paracetamol box.

Paracetamol boxes are thin these day - you're no longer able to buy bumper boxes so three condoms would have been obvious and there is no way someone would take condoms they didn't need on a business trip.

Especially not a neat freak

hestonbloomingdale Sun 27-Jan-13 23:11:40

Firstly "posh wanks" are not uncommon. Guys are not going to admit to each other that they do this but they do.

In this instance I don't think that is what is happening. Nor do I think your DP is actively using condoms with someone else:

a) they are too old
b) if he really knew he was going to need them he would buy them at the airport or wherever.

These are "fantasy" condoms. Loads of guys have them, they are are old, from a previous relationship or earlier in a relationship. Basically they don't get thrown away and end up being taken on stag weekends or in this case a business trip that your DP never usually gets to go on because you never know, yeh right!

He has packed them in the event that the 22 year old gorgeous girl from the Virgin ad has upgraded him to upper class and by chance she is staying in the same hotel as him and is going to shag him senseless. In other words it ain't going to happen.

Don't fret or let anyone here make you think he is playing away. However in future don't give him the heads up by texting him in advance, no matter how big the temptation. Just in case I am wrong.o

Beckamaw Sun 27-Jan-13 23:21:57

I have just asked DP about the 'posh wank' scenario. He said:

"Having sex with a condom on is better than not having sex, but it's a bit like eating a sweet with the wrapper on.
When a bloke has a wank, it's not like in porn films where it sprays everywhere. You just need to wash your hands afterwards.
I'd imagine some young lads have done a 'posh wank' once, for the experience. You wouldn't do it more than once though".

So that's his analogy.

However, in this case it sounds like it could well be innocent. Unless he arrives back with 4 totally different condoms.

PartTimeModel Mon 28-Jan-13 00:15:38

The prob for me is if he was regularly using paracetamol for back pain, he would have known this particular box contained condoms and not medicine IYSWIM.

And he wld have checked to see how many tablets were in box before packing it to take away. If you need meds for back there is no use packing a box with 2 left. You would check surely? And there knowingly take condoms not paracetamol.

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 00:33:38

heston you don't have much respect for men, do you ?

SaraBellumHertz Mon 28-Jan-13 03:23:56

Af or indeed the partners of men if that is the sort of behaviour heston expects women to put up with.

I can confidently say if my DHs explanation for carrying condoms was he was only going to use them if the woman was really attractive the he'd be out the door hmm

FellatioNels0n Mon 28-Jan-13 03:53:33

I think his story is entirely plausible. Just not very likely.

But then if you have only been together a few years and the condoms last that long, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the condoms pre-date your relationship being serious. I'm saying this because you've been together a relatively short time. If you'd been together 5 years or more then he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

peedoffbird Mon 28-Jan-13 04:22:46

Trying to be positive about this but the phrase "no smoke without fire" keeps popping into my head. But then I've been cheated on a fair few times so am not the best to judge. End result is that he is away on a business trip in possession of condoms. If he is a regular user of paracetomol then surely he would have known that that box contained something else. Where does he normally take his paracetomol from? I hope I'm wrong.

In his favour he would be pretty stupid to leave condoms he was expecting to cheat with in a place used by both of you regularly.

BadLad Mon 28-Jan-13 06:14:18

Never heard of posh wanks before, and wouldn't do them. What's the point, when a common wank feels better and spares you the expense of a condom?

Jemma1111 Mon 28-Jan-13 06:34:21

I believe he is definitely cheating on you OP.

If those condoms predate your relationship then that means the paracetamol box would be out of date also . He's hardly going to shove old condoms into a new medicine box is he ?

He's bound to bring the original condoms back now he knows you're on to him !

If I were you I would not buy this story at all but would let him think I had . I would then be searching for more evidence of him cheating , if you do this I'm sure you will catch him out .

Numberlock Mon 28-Jan-13 09:29:35

OP - you will probably have to resign yourself to never finding out the truth about these particular condoms. If he brings them back it proves nothing; if he's already used them and can't bring them back, he could easily say he threw them away. (Obviously if 4 different condoms come back there's a whole other discussion to be had!)

However, tell us more about this business trip. You say he doesn't usually travel overseas with work - as in never? Once a year/once in a blue moon? Who is he visiting - does his company have offices in this country? Or is it customer visits? A trade fair? When did he find out he'd have to go?

Also, going off the time difference, is it Thailand by any chance?

If I was going to play detective, I'd be looking at what he'd taken with him (eg how many work shirts to cover a ten day trip; laptop; business cards; company brochures) and what he brings back (eg business cards from new contacts he's made out there) and what hotel he's been staying in.

NewOldParent Mon 28-Jan-13 09:36:54

As a fella, I can assure you we do!

And I have absolutely nothing in my closet (well, apart from a few missing condoms)

Numberlock Mon 28-Jan-13 10:04:09

But do you take condoms with you on a business trip when you're in a relationship?

piratecat Mon 28-Jan-13 10:07:18

you wouldn't take them would you, on purpose. If he grabbed the pack of paracetamols innocently thinking they were paracetamols, then it seems innocent.

Astelia Mon 28-Jan-13 10:15:29

You don't pack a box of meds for a trip without checking how many pills are left in the box.

He knew what was in there, but the purpose remains a mystery.

Numberlock Mon 28-Jan-13 10:18:36

According to Freud there's no such as an accident...

carmenelectra Mon 28-Jan-13 11:23:17

Maybe I'm a suspicious cow but I would think bullshit.

Firstly, I would have asked about the condoms when I found them in the paracetamol box. Why weren't they stored in their original box? To me, that looks like they were deliberately hidden. Also, were all the tablets taken out of the box as surely condoms wouldn't fit too?

If I had been with a man 3 yrs I would definitely have shown him the condoms and asked why they were there!

Then the business trip and his need for painkillers for his bad back. Now wouldn't he have checked how many were in there as they may have only been 2 left! If I'm going away on holiday I would buy a new box of tablets not take half a box out the cupboard as if I needed regular pain relief I'd need at least a full box. If I did take some from home I'd at least check how many were there.

Now I'd be looking for those condoms when he came back tho he may not have had chance to use them before OP txted him. So I guess its hard to find out if he's telling the truth unless he doesn't bring any back.

As for posh wanks. As if. Who would want to deliberately lose sensation when they don't have to.

CrazyOldCatLady Mon 28-Jan-13 11:24:13

I think it's easily possible that he took them by accident - maybe he was packing in a hurry and assumed that the box contained what it said it contained!

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, to be honest. I've just asked DH and he agrees that it's probably innocent.

carmenelectra Mon 28-Jan-13 11:33:14

If Thailand is the place he has gone then I'd never belive him.

I'm lucky my dp has a job when business trips just don't happen. Sadly, it seems they are often a fantastic excuse for men to cheat. Sorry I sound like a bitter old bag. I'm not. My dp is lovely but I've heard and read so much shit over the yrss. And some women are just too trusting.

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 11:34:33

Is it Thailand ?

carmenelectra Mon 28-Jan-13 11:41:26

Someone suggested it may be due to the time difference.

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 11:44:37

Sorry, was asking OP if it was Thailand.

Numberlock Mon 28-Jan-13 11:45:00

Also, going off the time difference, is it Thailand by any chance? (me)

If Thailand is the place he has gone then I'd never belive him (carmen)

Is it Thailand ? (AF)

Interesting that a few us are thinking it could be Thailand.

Numberlock Mon 28-Jan-13 11:51:37

Someone suggested it may be due to the time difference

That was me, the OP said 8 hours ahead but after checking, Thailand is only 7 hours ahead.

meditrina Mon 28-Jan-13 12:32:22

There's a swathe of Asia which is on 8 hours difference.

It doesn't really matter where it is: if it's all a mistake, he's not planning to shag around anywhere.

If there is an affair, it's either with a colleague (who could be from anywhere, meeting on business in any location, including home location); with someone who has travelled out to be with him (ditto); or a random local shag (opportunities for easy hook ups occur anywhere; STIs can be caught anywhere).

calidadsuprema Mon 28-Jan-13 12:59:33

No its not Thailand. Ive seen itinerary and stuff organising the trip..even helped make his hotel booking. My thoughts are now tending towards suspicions that he took them in case he "got lucky"....

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 13:03:08

Have you spoken to him again, Cal ?

I'm more inclined to the 'in case he got lucky' theory rather than definite cheating - still doesn't make it right.

AlphaAndEcho Mon 28-Jan-13 13:49:26

My DH would absolutely definitely take a packet of tablets without checking what is inside them - he is idiotic that way grin

It all depends on whether your DH is organised and not-so idiotic that he would look inside the packet . FWIW I think it could have been a genuine mistake .

IMO people who have secret condoms don't put them in a "family" drawer, I'd imagine they would be hidden in a pair of socks or something like that .

I hope you get this sorted but as a pp has said you may never know . I think you will need to have a proper talk when he gets back and then decide where to go from there . Hth

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 28-Jan-13 14:01:10

My first thoughts are 'posh wank', tbh.

DH does it and is open about it. Why would some men make excuses about it?? If you're going to cheat then fair enough, but some men do actually use condoms for this sole purpose!

raenbow Mon 28-Jan-13 14:05:45

OH Calidad, my heart is going out to you, your situation sounds TOO like my own. My H was asked by apparent 'Development Agency' to go to a country in Asia ( not Thailand) to work, I saw the itinerary and hotels etc. He came back said lets separate, no one else, turns out after xmas his translator and he started an affair and are in a relationship now ( despite 8 hours time difference and 5000 miles) did he have a stock of condoms in his bag? I don't know, I do know he has now left the kids and I and I am in divorce proceedings.
Don't want to panic you but a year ago when i posted a similar thing and dismissed MNers as SO wrong, turns out they weren't!!
I really do hope you are wrong, I hope he is honest but if not you will be better off without a man who puts you and your daughter second to himself.

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 14:06:30

If the condoms are for "posh wanking" why didn't he say so ? (if it's such a "normal" thing to do)

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Mon 28-Jan-13 14:20:19

I'm on with Benefit of the Doubt, as it's the kind of idiotic thing I'd do - be all pleased I'd fitted more in the drawer by combining boxes then just grab a box that felt full without checking it.

I don't think it's weird to have kept left over condoms as if OP was sick, condoms might be needed for the seven days afterwards.

But I would check the date on the ones that came back, it's not that big a Benefit.

Poppikok Mon 28-Jan-13 14:33:57

calidad,if you thought something was amiss you shouldn't have texted him.You've given him TIME to think uo some story,excuse or whatever.You should have waited and confronted him when he comes through the front door.I'd love to see his face shock

ChippingInNeedsCoffee Mon 28-Jan-13 14:41:37

I wouldn't have said anything until he came back and could do it face to face.

I'm no longer at all trusting and I wouldn't believe him, but, that's not to say he's actually guilty of anything more than throwing a packet of what he thought were paracetamol into his bag.

I'd be suspicious in your shoes.
I'd be livid in his.

frantic53 Mon 28-Jan-13 14:45:11

I have no experience of "posh wanking" but just thinking that with a man's propensity to roll over and fall asleep straight after sex, it would make sense to take condoms for wanking in a hotel room. Have a wank, pull it off, tie it up and chuck on the floor until the morning. Clean hands so can go straight to sleep. Men can be lazy fuckers, you know! wink

carmenelectra Mon 28-Jan-13 16:35:30

Do men normally plan ahead before a business trip that they are gonna have a wank or two and take condoms soley for this purpose? Like a little dirty weekend away with themselves.

If my dp used condoms for this purpose I'd think he was a nutter and wasting condoms, but I think he would say that's what he did rather than make up a lame excuse.

The more I think about this thread I think the man is bullshitting. Anyone who had old condoms still in date probably would keep them even if not currently needing to use them. Yes its fine to stuff em somewhere,,, but a paracetamol box? It would have taken some serious cramming to fit them in for starters! I'd be less suspicious if I found them in a sock drawer or old coat pocket or summat.

Branleuse Mon 28-Jan-13 16:45:32

saying hes vv happy to be with you and loves you, doesnt make him not planning on using the condoms given a chance. Id be livid

ImperialBlether Mon 28-Jan-13 16:46:35

It particularly doesn't make sense because he takes paracetemol regularly, so the implication is that the box of tablets is relatively new. It doesn't make sense then that old condoms are shoved inside a new box of paracetemol for the purpose of tidiness.

I agree that the OP should've kept quiet - I think it would have been interesting to see whether the condoms returned.

carmenelectra Mon 28-Jan-13 16:54:44

Agree with branleuse. Plenty of men claim to love wives and girlfriends and certainly have no plans of leaving, and still do bad stuff behind their backs.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 28-Jan-13 17:05:10

"Who would want to deliberately lose sensation when they don't have to."

It has nothing to do with sensation, it's to do with getting the wank over with without any mess to clear up afterwards, according to DH when he has done it in the past. It's convenient.

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 28-Jan-13 17:08:42

"Do men normally plan ahead before a business trip that they are gonna have a wank or two and take condoms soley for this purpose? Like a little dirty weekend away with themselves."

DH has done before he met me and had no intentions of sleeping with a woman when away on holidays. He has to get it out his system at least every other day so if I'm not the mood, then he'll do the posh wank. I don't have a problem with it, we're both very open about masturbation, it's perfectly healthy (better than having an affair).

carmenelectra Mon 28-Jan-13 17:28:43

Nothing wrong with masturbation and not even to be compared to having an affair. Strange thing to say.

I'm sorry I do find using a condom for a wank odd. It would lose sensation. Having sex with one and losing sensation is necessay for safe sex. A wank isn't. As for mess, well how much is there exactly? Does it spurt across the room. Doesn't a bit of bog roll do the job.

Anyway, I'm sure there probably are some men that use a condom, but must be the minority.

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 17:42:23

Good Lord, do people really think there is masturbation or there is adultery ?

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 28-Jan-13 18:45:00

"As for mess, well how much is there exactly?"

LOL - you've not seen DH when in action. It's very messy! More than a condom teat's worth of cum. So yes, using a condom is practical as it saves all the mess that can be created (saves cleaning the wallpaper, carpet, bedlinen, etc).

IrnBruTheNoo Mon 28-Jan-13 18:48:10

I'd rather know that DH (if away on holiday/business trip - not that it is relevant to his line of work as he works locally...) uses a condom for a posh wank than his being unfaithful by using the condom for having a one night stand with some random. That's why the comparison to masturbation and affairs! It's not that odd tbh....

Fidelia Mon 28-Jan-13 19:06:53

I really want to be wrong.

But, well, you did post asking, so you clearly do have some niggling doubts.

I just can't make sense of having old condoms in a packet of paracetamol when he sounds like he's taking it regularly and so it would be a new pack? And he'd have checked to make sure he had enough paracetamol for the trip, surely?

In telling him, you may have made him think before he actually does anything, or maybe he already has and it's a bit late. Regardless, counselling may be a good idea because clearly there is something that is making you uneasy and it's better to deal with it head on, than ignoring it.

I would check his condoms when he gets back. I'd also get checked out at a GUM clinic, just in case. If he comes back without the condoms, even with a plausible excuse, please start using condoms for your own health.

BelaLugosisShed Mon 28-Jan-13 19:09:08

Does he eat lots of celery IrnBru? grin

(It's supposed to increase the volume)

But seriously, if a man is wanking, presumably lying in bed, not wandering around the hotel room doing willy-windmills, he will ejaculate over his own stomach ( and chest at a push) , so can grab a few tissues or his own boxers to mop up with?

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 19:11:40

IrnBru ...don't be silly. The amount of ejaculate a man produces varies only slightly from bloke to bloke. We are not talking buckets full here. You are overstating your case and making yourself look a bit daft in the process.

Charbon Mon 28-Jan-13 20:24:54

I feel very sorry that some women believe these myths about ejaculation. In all the studies that have been undertaken, the highest quantity found in a single ejaculation has been 10ml. As a guide, a teaspoon is 5ml and a tablespoon is 15ml. The average is obviously far below 10ml.

Trumpton Mon 28-Jan-13 20:30:03

Hence the name of the band 10cc .

Maryz Mon 28-Jan-13 20:37:57

I don't think you can know categorically whether this was an oversight (thinking it was paracetamol) or a "take in case" scenario.

But I do know that I was very pissed off to take out a pack of nurofen last year when I was away and very hungover only to discover that the box contained some bandaids and two contact lenses - dh said he had "packed them in the box to stop them getting lost" hmm.

So it is entirely possible he picked up a box of paracetamol without opening it to check what was in it if he was, like me, a bit thick in a hurry.

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 20:38:17

Oh yeah, I had forgotten that !

I like 10cc grin

Maryz Mon 28-Jan-13 20:39:52

[arf] at 10 cc.

Sorry <sniggers childishly>, I didn't know that and always liked 10CC.

cuillereasoupe Mon 28-Jan-13 20:47:10

I have about ten boxes of paracetamol at different stages of near-finishedness in various handbags, drawers, and so on, so I can well believe it's an old packet even if he takes them regularly.

Charbon Mon 28-Jan-13 20:50:45

Rubber bullets anyone?

Yogii Mon 28-Jan-13 20:56:59

I'm a bloke.

Posh wanking happens but only the husbands of MNers who have mentioned this thread to them would know it by that name.

Socks yes, but never, ever, into a condom. Ridiculous notion.

But not as ridiculous as thinking that a guy would take condoms away with him to use for posh wanking. Eliminate that from your possibilities, ladies.

AF, you are an unforgiving bugger but that twat radar needs a polish, or whatever it is you do to keep it tuned. This boy's at it.

MarilynValentine Mon 28-Jan-13 20:59:04

I've had dreadful back pain on a few occasions and have had packets of painkillers stowed all over the place: bedside drawer, kitchen cabinet, bathroom. So I can understand grappling around and grabbing an old box when the newer boxes are open and elsewhere.

However. I am not a neat freak - quite the opposite.

I assume a neat freak would be more likely to be able to account for where things were, and less likely to grab an old box stuffed full of condoms.

What was he like when packing OP - was he methodical? Or did he leave it to the last minute and rush about chucking stuff into bags like I would ?

Was it an old box of paracetamol or a newer one? How many tablets were inside? If it was an old box, did it look immediately identifiable as an old box?

If it was obviously an old box then he would have known it as a historical object - the box where the old condoms live. And therefore why take it with him?

If it was a newer box, why shove old condoms into a new box - and where were the condoms prior to that?

Where does he keep the new boxes of painkillers - same drawer?

The only reason to take the box would be if he had run out of all painkillers except those, and needed a couple for the journey to the airport (where he could buy more). But if so - why not remove the condoms and chuck them in the bin at home?

And yes any back pain sufferer knows that you need to take anti-inflammatories, not paracemtamol.

Hope it's entirely innocent - and it may well be. Just really run the plausibility through your mind. You know him - can you see your neat, organised OH grabbing an ancient box of painkillers in a rush, completely forgetting about the condoms?

calidadsuprema Mon 28-Jan-13 21:03:44

I don't subscribe to the posh wanking theory...at least in my DP's case. In turmoil here...he categorically admitted to having them along with Ibroprofen and the paracetomol -I have actually forgotten which of these boxes I saw them on at Christmas but it doesn't really matter. All I am bothered about is that the condoms ended up on the business trip. I will be checking dates on them when he gets back. If he says he threw them away over there I will be livid.

Snazzynewyear Mon 28-Jan-13 21:07:16

I find it mind-boggling that apparently a fair number of men are so averse to 'mess', not having clean hands to go to sleep with etc that they specifically take condoms when they travel to have a wank but avoid all these 'problems'. I don't think I've ever met any of these men.

Does it work both ways? How many women posting here put latex gloves on or crack open a femidom to 'avoid making a mess' when they do the same? confused

Snazzynewyear Mon 28-Jan-13 21:08:31

OP, do you have any other reason to mistrust him? Honestly?

calidadsuprema Mon 28-Jan-13 21:11:10

Snazzy - no I don't have any other reason to mistrust him, but I know that even "nice" guys get up to stuff behind their partner's backs. I have seen it in friends' marriages. I'm not young and naive - been around the block a couple of times.

fluffyraggies Mon 28-Jan-13 21:29:04

Oh OP i really feel for you having this hanging over you for the next week. Personally there's nothing worse than having a worry and not being able to confront it or get to the bottom of it right then and there.

DH says he's never heard of any bloke wanking in a condom. Over a sock or clothes, yes. But if there's guys here saying they do then ... some must.

I think my DH would grab a box of tablets to pack without checking. Not so sure if it were for long term pain. Actually i don't think he'd think of packing pain killers. He takes loads of toiletries.

If it was me and my sinus tablets i'd check. But then i'm not my DH. Or your DH.

I also think, however, that it would be obvious that the box was not 'rattely' enough if it had condoms in it, rather than tablets, when he picked them up.

Hoping for the best here OP.

AnyFucker Mon 28-Jan-13 22:34:49

Yogi my twat radar is twitching but not beeping here. We shall see. Nobody's radar is infallible, or else none of us would ever have been made a fool of. And all of us have, at some point. If I am wrong on this one, I will book it in for a service smile

Having said that, OP, I don't think we will see an outcome here, unless your bloke decides to clear his conscience and come clean. If he brings the same condoms home, or they don't appear you still don't get a resolution.

lose/lose innit

What you do know now though is that some of your blind trust has died. Perhaps that is a good thing.

Looksgoodingravy Mon 28-Jan-13 22:57:34

Hope I'm wrong but the one thing which doesn't sit right with me is the fact he said he just threw the paracetamols in his case without checking. You've described him as someone who's neat and that's why the condoms were probably in that box, it doesn't then seem right then that the same 'neat' person would just pack the tablets without checking how many were in there etc..

frantic53 Mon 28-Jan-13 23:16:36

Snazzy, I don't think women do this as regularly as men do they? Or make the same kind, of "mess" as men? Actually I think the fact that he's a, "neat freak" might make it more likely that he might prefer a, "clean wank". grin

I keep coming back to the fact that no intelligent man would keep a secret stash of condoms in a place where his partner would be likely to find them during an innocent search for something entirely different, ie a paracetamol, would they? confused

IrnBruTheNoo Tue 29-Jan-13 09:14:11

women don't have the same aftermath than men do when pleasuring themselves, snazzy.

lougle Tue 29-Jan-13 09:30:11

So your DP usually puts things in odd places to keep them neat. You openly saw the condoms in the festive season and weren't bothered about them then. They're gone now, along with the paracetamol.

Your DP admits that he's taken them, along with the paracetamol.

Why are you entertaining the notion that he's cheating? He's given you a perfectly normal response.

If you aren't careful, you'll have a bunch of strangers ruining your relationship.

I never open the paracetamol box to check if they are in there, btw. I simply shake it as I take it out the box. If he shook the box, he would have heard that there was paracetamol in there.

carmenelectra Tue 29-Jan-13 09:55:15

I can't believe that there are some people that think Op's dp took the condoms for a wank! I'm more inclined to believe that he took them by accident than the minute chance it was for a clean wank. If he did take em for a wank why didn't he take tell the OP??

As for men needing condoms for a wank because of the 'aftermath' , as one poster put it. Well, aftermath is a bit of a strong word. As another poster said its only a couple of teaspoons!I doubt many men actuaLly feel the need to contain it in a condom. I imagine most men find a tissue does the job just fine.

I do wonder about these women who claim to know men who use condoms for wanks either have very 0CD husbands or they are getting the wool pulled over their eyes.

IrnBruTheNoo Tue 29-Jan-13 10:04:10

carmen you're making me LOL now. DH does the deed with myself only (doubt he'd be wanting to do it with hairy blokes that he works with for 12hrs each shift!). And he does the posh wank thing also, because he produces bucketloads of the stuff, it's more convenient to contain it in a condom than wipe it off a hairy chest, neck, and goodness knows what else (it has been known to hit the wall).

Plenty condoms to be had at any FPC if you walk in and ask for some, it doesn't cost you anything! Buying the tissues is actually more expensive because you've got to pay for them yourself wink

PeppermintPasty Tue 29-Jan-13 10:05:40

At the risk of turning into one of those people who appear on particular threads banging a particular drum....my very non OCD dp has occasionally wanked into a condom, so I know it is done. He would never call it a posh wank tho, and it would arise <ahem> as a result of him being too lazy to get up and get some loo roll from the bathroom. The condoms are by the bed (in a drawer I might add). He's never done this in front of me, I just, you know, know.

I appear to be a posh wank apologist.

PeppermintPasty Tue 29-Jan-13 10:06:50

Now IrnBru, you're just making me feel a little queasy......

carmenelectra Tue 29-Jan-13 10:15:03

irnbru, is it actually bucketloads?smilecould he fill a bucket? I think its probably the same amount, roughly as any other man, just spurting a bit forcefully!

I still don't get men choosing to use a condom! It wouldn't feel quite as nice. And as I said previously, for sex its different for protection. But a wank?!!

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 10:15:08

IrnBru I think your DH should consult a doctor. That doesn't sound normal. He may me suffering from megaspunkitis

A worrying syndrome (especially for the wallpaper) and despite lots of controversy, it really exists just in your head

carmenelectra Tue 29-Jan-13 10:17:05

Lol at anyfucker.

SueFawley Tue 29-Jan-13 10:26:35

AF thanks for that, I needed the laugh this morning. smile

Numberlock Tue 29-Jan-13 10:37:35

With reference to all these ultra-sensitive men who can't handle a bit of spunk anywhere on their persons, one assumes they never ask their partners if they can cum on their face/tits etc or invite them to swallow aforementioned fluid? Hmmm.

carmenelectra Tue 29-Jan-13 10:43:39

Absolutely numberlock. I'm guessing they positively hate it. Yeah right.

They probably cover their partners with a towel beforehand. In the case of irnbru I think her dh must lay out a groundsheet.

With these men, I don't think swallowing is an option due to choking hazard.

SueFawley Tue 29-Jan-13 11:12:59

Reminds me of someone who told his DP she was 'too wet' that night and it made him feel like he needed to go and wash his cock, then in the next breath asked for uncovered anal <eyeroll>

IrnBruTheNoo Tue 29-Jan-13 11:46:37

"With these men, I don't think swallowing is an option due to choking hazard."

It really would be a choking hazard, I kid you not! wink

And thank you for this thread, it's made me LOL so many times since I opened it originally the other day. What a hoot! Sorry OP, I know it's digressed a bit from your worries. I hope that it really is just a posh wank for your sake, really. I hope your DP really is not being unfaithful. I just wanted you to know that there are actually men out there who prefer to use a condom for wanking rather than clearing up the mess with several tissues (or a whole bog roll).

carmenelectra Tue 29-Jan-13 11:51:37

irnbru. I think we need a separate thread for posters whose dhs actually have 'posh wanks' to come forward and fess up. I wanna see exactly how much of a phenomenen this is.smile

IrnBruTheNoo Tue 29-Jan-13 11:56:17

go for it carmen smile not all men will want to admit to it though! or they may keep it secret. DH and myself have always been open about every little bit of our sex lives. Not all couples are like that!

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 12:02:13

I think we had a thread once, about posh wanks. I don't remember the outcome. It might have been a bit of a bunfight, however

Irn fair play to you. You have taken on board (or more likely ignored) my sarcasm with aplomb. Have some thanks smile

Numberlock Tue 29-Jan-13 12:04:58

I looked up posh wanks in urban dictionary. It lists - wanking into a condom or getting your butler to do it. grin

SueFawley Tue 29-Jan-13 12:07:59

arf at butler grin

AgathaF Tue 29-Jan-13 12:09:29

Do the men who indulge in posh wanking to avoid mess not feel the need to get up and wash the smell of condoms off their hands before they roll over and go to sleep?

IrnBru - the picture you paint of your dick-waving, megaspunk-producing DH, with said spunk dripping off his hairy back, chest and probably hairy bedroom walls, is awesome.

OP I really hope this is something innocent.

BelaLugosisShed Tue 29-Jan-13 12:14:48

"women don't have the same aftermath than men do when pleasuring themselves, snazzy. "
I imagine if it were measured, female sex fluids would be considerably more in volume than most mens' output, I know I make a far bigger wet patch than DH wink
I've seen women on here say they have to put towels down.

carmenelectra Tue 29-Jan-13 12:24:47

agatha I agree. I think most men would still want a wipe after using a condom, however it was used. And yes God, irnbru's dh is all man. Imagine the gloopy bedroom if there weren't any condoms.

Bela. Yuck smile

IrnBruTheNoo Tue 29-Jan-13 12:47:03

AnyFucker it's all in good jest smile

IrnBruTheNoo Tue 29-Jan-13 12:47:38

"getting your butler to do it."

haha, will have to approach DH about this tonight!!

IrnBruTheNoo Tue 29-Jan-13 12:48:57

Bela you're no' painting a good picture there at all...

IrnBruTheNoo Tue 29-Jan-13 12:50:54

We've started using condoms more now than ever before and I must admit the smell of the latex is horrendous after DTD. There's that latex smell that lingers in the bedroom for ages afterwards. Welcome to my latex boudoir!

OneMoreChap Tue 29-Jan-13 15:57:44

Yes, some blokes do use condoms for that; some use socks... I gather some just wipe it with the outside of the duvet...

LOL at the idea that "a tissue" will do.
More likely a couple of tissues, a wet wipe/flannel, and some more tissues.

LOL at "you just need to wash your hands". Older blokes tend to have less pronounced ejaculations for distance, but it's a lot more than "a hand".

I thought he'd said leftovers anyway?
[Oh, and back pain? I take a mix of Ibuprofen and/or paracetamol or co-codamol; more than once I've chucked an empty box in to my bag, which I why I now only take the blister backs themselves...]

OP, you've talked about it with him, I hope it all turns out OK.

carmenelectra Tue 29-Jan-13 15:58:02

irnbru think you might have a latex fetish, u and your dh smile

I work ina a Hotel that is.mainly full of business people who stay for weeks or.months at a time. It is sickening and saddening how many of then are having affairs.

Some weekends we meet the wife and kids - others, some random 'friend'.

I would have kept my mouth shut and looked for.more info, but that could be related to the industry I work.in.

carmenelectra Tue 29-Jan-13 16:05:29

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 16:07:20

I know far too much about IrnBru's sex life now < hides eyes >

meditrina Tue 29-Jan-13 17:37:54

I'd have thought that when in a hotel, with seen-it-all-before staff who are paid to clear up anything, and a good supply of fluffy towels, the need for latex to wank would be somewhat reduced.

AgathaF Tue 29-Jan-13 17:59:23

I gather some just wipe it with the outside of the duvet - eurgh.

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 18:03:29

...or the curtains grin

HecateWhoopass Tue 29-Jan-13 18:19:12

So he moves these old condoms from paracetamol box to paracetamol box and has been doing that for 3 years? Or this particular box of paracetamol is over 3 years old?

noddyholder Tue 29-Jan-13 18:20:34

I have known a couple of posh wankers. A combination of their being virgos and my high thread count fixation. It is not that unusual I think this bloke is innocent Just chucked a load of stuff in a bag and not examined it

sarahseashell Tue 29-Jan-13 18:36:18

I've known a couple of posh wankers

grin

Numberlock Tue 29-Jan-13 18:41:55

AF ... that would be considered the mark of a true gent where I come from!

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 18:57:40

Am hoping the op is ok, btw, amongst all this hilarity about posh wankers smile

Poppikok Tue 29-Jan-13 19:15:32

Yes I agree AF.Things do seem to be getting out of hand (if you'll pardon the pun) wink

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 19:18:01

It often happens, Poppi, when the OP withdraws for a while, or disappears altogether. People talk among themselves for a while, then the thread dies away if there is no more updates from the OP.

ImperialBlether Tue 29-Jan-13 19:23:52

Hecate, that's exactly what I've been saying! He suffers back pain but the paracetemol box is three years old and is in the drawer he raids when he goes away?

I'm really sorry, OP, but I don't believe it.

I also don't believe the posh wankers; I think it's just one man who gets dumped by woman after woman and that's why so many women know him!

sumrandomgirl Tue 29-Jan-13 19:52:38

They do....found my ex's left overs....
Oh unless I was extremely naive an he had another woman round....

An if he said he is happy and you have no other cause for concern I wud trust him, I put things in weird places meaning for them to be safe, or moved later etc and then forget!!! I wud also tell him how worried it made you, you did right telling him what u suspected, there is nothing wrong with ask.g a few questions,

calidadsuprema Tue 29-Jan-13 22:40:10

Wow over 200 messages...although a lot of random posh wank ones. I have been v busy with work and DD...trying not to think of DP possibly "getting lucky" on his trip. Still 5 days to go. He has called and texted a few times - the "checking in" sort at midnight his time etc. The trip seems to have a busy programme of networking events and involves two countries so three hotels in all and two additional flights. Will post again once I have had a face to face talk with him.

AnyFucker Tue 29-Jan-13 23:17:35

keep busy x

BadLad Sun 03-Feb-13 03:46:34

*LOL at the idea that "a tissue" will do.
More likely a couple of tissues, a wet wipe/flannel, and some more tissues.

LOL at "you just need to wash your hands". Older blokes tend to have less pronounced ejaculations for distance, but it's a lot more than "a hand".*

Good heavens. You are an absolute spunk machine, OMC. A couple of tissues does me fine. Sometimes I wonder if there is any lingering smell afterwards, but nobody has said anything, and DW would definitely tell me if there was.

MidnightMasquerader Sun 03-Feb-13 04:42:58

Nobody ... OK, re-word that slightly ...

I find it extraordinarily hard to believe that anyone packs condoms unconsciously when going on a work trip without partner. Extraordinarliy hard to believe.

I can fully give him benefit of the doubt that he didn't necessarily have a recipient for the condom/s in mind... I imagine he packed them 'just in case'. Which is fine. If that's the deal you have in your relationship. Not so fine, if it's not...

Sorry, I would unhesitatingly be suspicious - and I've never (knowingly) been cheated on so have no reason to be particulary cynical. But this just seems obvious even to me.

meditrina Sun 03-Feb-13 09:39:44

OP: wishing you well for getting all this properly sorted (whichever way it goes) upon his return, which must be pretty soon.

calidadsuprema Sun 03-Feb-13 10:03:23

He is due back tonight..not sure how it will go. I have lost trust in him.

SueFawley Sun 03-Feb-13 11:26:19

Good luck OP.

kalidanger Sun 03-Feb-13 12:04:14

I guess if there's a beaten up paracetamol box with the exact same condoms still in it, and a contrite air about him then you have your answer.

Otherwise....

Best wishes OP thanks

Fidelia Sun 03-Feb-13 12:08:38

(((calidadsuprema))) I don't know how I'd feel in your shoes. Let's hope that it's very clear one way or the other, but it's probably going to be more complicated than that.

kalidanger Sun 03-Feb-13 13:30:50

"Oh, I just chucked them away" isn't helpful either but I guess you can tell by his air

abbyfromoz Sun 03-Feb-13 14:01:03

Tell him you believe him- if he's decided to lie then so be it- you will not find out from him. Next step is to make him believe you don't suspect but find out for yourself. Guys tend to brag..emails? Also Phone bills against call log? Also you will know if you remember what the condoms look like if they are the original ones he took. I know it 's important to show that you trust him but women have intuition so trust it, but allow to be proved wrong.

fluffyraggies Sun 03-Feb-13 14:26:50

Thinking of you calidad. Strength to you for tonight.

sarahseashell Sun 03-Feb-13 15:37:31

hope it goes well for you tonight calidad. Trust your instincts, they'll always serve you well.

Abitwobblynow Sun 03-Feb-13 18:25:42

Good luck Cal. Trust your gut. I ignored mine hugely.

TheSecretCervixDNCOP Sun 03-Feb-13 18:47:20

My DP wanks into a condom as less mess! Thought most blokes do this. I think Anyfucker is way out of line saying it is made up by cheaters to get away with it. Tar and brush, Anyfucker?!!

TheSecretCervixDNCOP Sun 03-Feb-13 18:48:25

Sorry just felt I had to add that as it was another case of what Anyfucker says must be true! hmm

BluelightsAndSirens Sun 03-Feb-13 18:53:58

Good luck this evening

I still find it astonishing any man says he wanks off into a condom. I never heard about "posh wanks" until I came on mumsnet and having discussed it with plenty of mates, not one of them had ever heard of it or considered it. It's what tissues and loo roll are for. I've never read about it in FHM, and if they've never mentioned it, then the % of men who do this must be very small indeed.

I'm not saying AF is right, but strikes me that it's a good excuse for a guy to have condoms around and to explain them away to their wives or girlfriends.

MidnightMasquerader Sun 03-Feb-13 20:09:38

I have to admit, I asked DH about it, and he just looked confused. He said he supposed it might be something teenage boys might try for a different sensation, but once tried, once forgotten.

I have to say - and just my perception, clearly - there is something ever so slightly, um, 'neat' about the idea of a man preferring to wank into a condom, that is ever so off-putting... hmm grin I'm imagining a man who folds his trousers up and carefully puts them away before sex.

AnyFucker Sun 03-Feb-13 20:13:04

oh do shut up, secretcervix

stop trying to pick a fight on a support thread...it makes you look like an arsehole

cali....good luck x

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Sun 03-Feb-13 20:29:34

I wish we could stop talking about posh wanks as the man in question has never proffered that as an explanation.

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Sun 03-Feb-13 20:30:04

I hope it goes OK tonight OP.

Tomorrowslookingfine Sun 03-Feb-13 20:54:44

Any update op?

MidnightMasquerader Sun 03-Feb-13 21:05:22

You're right Doctrine, sorry.

Good luck tonight Cali. x

calidadsuprema Sun 03-Feb-13 23:20:50

He is back home. His flight was delayed and he had been awake for 24 hrs when he got in. Was v pleased to see DD and I..gave presents etc. DD went to bed then DP had a shower and went to bed...now sleeping like a baby. Not a word yet on the condoms as DD (mine, not his) was still up to greet him...tbh I think he's hoping I wont bring it up...but I will raise it tomorrow night when DD is out at an activity..he is not getting away with it.

calidadsuprema Sun 03-Feb-13 23:32:56

He is asleep. His washbag from the trip was in our bathroom. I checked through it and there are blister packs of paracetomol and ibuprofen but no boxes and no fucking condoms......

AnyFucker Sun 03-Feb-13 23:34:57

He will tell you he simply threw them away because he had no need for them.

That may/may not be true, and you have no way of knowing.

What a fucking horrible situation you have here sad

calmlychaotic Sun 03-Feb-13 23:40:15

it doesn't necessarily mean anything, he opened paracetamol packet realised they where in there thought well I don't need them and threw them in the bin. if he's cheating it's easy enough to buy them elsewhere anyway.

BluelightsAndSirens Sun 03-Feb-13 23:43:04

Will you believe him when he tells you he threw them away once he realised they were in the box instead of paracetamol?

Do you have any other reason/evidence not to believe this to be an unfortunate accident can you get hold of his phone/go through his bags whilst he is sleeping?

Allthenamesiwantaretaken Sun 03-Feb-13 23:48:57

Just to say, if I had been in his shoes I would have thrown them away, I would not have put them back in the packet. I am distrusting at the best of times, but in this case I really think it's far far from conclusive that he has done anything wrong. I probably wouldn't bring it up with him now, I would just be on high alert going forward.

Mosman Sun 03-Feb-13 23:49:01

You need more than this to determine any wrong doing.
What's his body language telling you ? My DH lied about something years ago and I just knew. What does your gut instinct tell you ?

LittleEdie Sun 03-Feb-13 23:50:09

Having old condoms kicking about in the bathroom is no big deal. Whether he still has them or not is a red herring. All that matters is - do you believe that he took them away by mistake?

BagCat Sun 03-Feb-13 23:53:13

Wow, the plot thickens! His face/your gut instinct will tell you the truth.

Good luck.

PS: As an aside, my DH says posh wanking doesn't exist and is horseshit. He reckons most men don't love the (lack of) sensation of condoms enough to go to all the extra bother of putting one on for a wank when simple toilet roll will suffice, be quicker and not stink of rubber. (just saying - it's only another opinion into the mix)

MidnightMasquerader Sun 03-Feb-13 23:54:22

So he told you he had them when you contacted them, and now he's thrown them away. His alibi. Why woud he do that?

Unless he hasn't thrown them away and put them somewhere else in his luggage...?

newbiefrugalgal Sun 03-Feb-13 23:59:50

Sorry but you confronted him over the phone about the missing condoms, which should be more than enough reason why he should have brought them all back.
If he had nothing to hide and it was a mistake taking them then he would have brought them back.
I hope for your sake he is honest with you tomorrow.
Good luck

LittleEdie Mon 04-Feb-13 00:21:07

If I'd accidentally taken some old condoms away with me I wouldn't necessarily feel I needed to bring them back as some sort of alibi. Just cos we've all been following this and turned it into a 'has he/hasn't he' drama doesn't mean he hasn't thrown them out without giving it a seconds thought.

ZenNudist Mon 04-Feb-13 00:25:34

Oh, seen yr thread before, thought sounded bit suspicious, but didn't you call him on taking condoms away, hence very important he bring them back?!

Could he have put them elsewhere in his hand luggage like "I'm not losing these - she'll kill me!"?

MidnightMasquerader Mon 04-Feb-13 00:52:52

I'd probably throw them away too, if I'd realised of my own accord that I'd mistakenly packed them and hadn't had a conversation with my DH about them...

However, if I'd had a worried text from my DH asking after their whereabouts, and I'd told him I'd packed them - I'd probably be pretty anxious to reassure him - and therefore to produce them.

Surely this is the situation the OP finds herself in?

MumOfMissy Mon 04-Feb-13 01:06:24

Agree with Zen and Midnight. If he knows you know he took them, and he knows you are worried and upset, he really should bring them back to reassure you.

As to the whole reason offered that they were in a paracetamol packet to keep them tidy, that he had a bad back, that he took them by mistake... There's a saying that 'the truth is always simple'. The longer the explanation and the more complicated a story is, the less likely it is to be true. I hope for your sake OP that I'm wrong.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 04-Feb-13 08:51:50

What a horrible situation.

If you feel things do not add up, you are entitled to do some snooping around - check pockets, the insides of his suitcase, receipts, credit card/bank statements (look out for large cash withdrawals) etc.

Good luck.

scaevola Mon 04-Feb-13 08:57:10

Well, I can see why he'd avoid the issue when the children were still at large, and although I have some sympathy with tiredness after the journey, I find it strange that he continued to avoid you after that. He must have realised the importance of the matter.

When will you next have a child-free chance to talk?

riveroise Mon 04-Feb-13 09:00:44

Places in asia like Singapore, China, Japan, South Korea etc. have bars where men buy the bar-ladies drinks, the ladies chat to the "lonely" men in return, and it all goes on from there.....so there is a more laissez-faire attitude towards prostitution, unfortunately.

Maryz Mon 04-Feb-13 09:06:27

To be fair, it is entirely possible that he is completely innocent, that he did take them by mistake, that when he realised he had them he just chucked them out.

He may genuinely not realise that the op is still worried about it. He may think she accepted his explanation about the paracetamol (after all, if it is true it may not have occurred to him that she doesn't believe him).

The fact that he isn't making a big deal of it implies innocence to me - I think if he had something to hide he would have immediately produced them with a "there you go, I told you I wasn't going to use them" and made a big deal of his "innocence".

I suspect he is a fuckwit rather than a cunt [mumsnetty-technical-terms]

EnjoyResponsibly Mon 04-Feb-13 09:08:50

When I read the first two pages of your thread last week, I thought if it were me I'd just bin them. For no other reason than they're not needed. Nothing more sinister than that.

carmenelectra Mon 04-Feb-13 10:35:01

I'm sorry OP but I think you have been a bit slow on the uptake.

I would have collared him the minute he walked through the door! Sod the fact that he was knackered. What about you being mithered while he has been thousands of miles away?

Ok maybe you now believe his story and that's fine, but you were obviously worried enough to start a thread. Are you more reassured now? You know him. I wouldn't belive a story like that, but I don't live with a neat freak bloke who stuffs condoms in tablet boxes. Even if I did though, I'd be highly suspicious even of him accidently packing condoms.

I think it would have been reassuring of him to even briefly mention the text before going to bed.

Can't belive the posh wank theory is still going. As I said previously, only a miniscule number of grown men would faff like this. Just bollocks.

fluffyraggies Mon 04-Feb-13 10:37:31

If he knew how anxious you were i would have thought that yes, he would have bought them home, and bought it up last night. (he may have bought them home - we don't know yet).

He might not realise just how upset you are though OP. In that case he may have just flung them, got on with his trip and is now home, sleeping the sleep of an innocent!

As others have said - weather he bought them home or not proves nowt. Weather he talked about it last night or not proves nowt.

Your gut instinct and knowledge of the guy is what you need to rely on now, OP. I would wait till you're alone with him with no distractions and say you need to talk to him about it. Be honest and tell him you need to talk to him about it properly because you are struggling badly with it.

TheCatIsEatingIt Mon 04-Feb-13 12:36:55

DH says every bloke has tried a "posh wank," but he wouldn't expect someone to take condoms away to do that. Putting them in a paracetamol packet and picking up the wrong packet, he thinks is very plausible. (He is both very tidy and quite scatty, and takes regular painkillers when his back goes, so can see himself doing this).

I can see him finding the condoms, thinking "d'oh!" and throwing them out without it occurring to him that I'd be suspicious, or in your case putting the phone down and chucking them just thinking "I don't need them, if I don't have them they can't upset Calidad again".

If it turns out that he has been unfaithful, you'll get lots of great support on here, but don't let the fact that this thread's got so big make you more suspicious than you need to be. We're all thinking how we'd feel if it was our DP/DH, but it's not, it's yours, and if you've no other reason to mistrust him, this probably isn't one either.

BadLad Mon 04-Feb-13 13:34:48

I haven't tried a posh wank, and my male friends were astonished by the concept, for the most part. One or two had heard of it, but said they hadn't done it.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 04-Feb-13 13:38:12

I agree with TheCat 's last paragraph - trust your instincts but if you think there is a good chance he is innocent, drop this subject unless something else comes up.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 04-Feb-13 13:39:24

(and the posh wank thing is NOT relevant to this thread but my DH had never heard of it)

DorisIsWaiting Mon 04-Feb-13 13:59:40

If there are boxes of paracetamol and brufen in the bag are they uk brands? Only because he originally said he had taken the box by accident?

Hope you get some sort of sense today.

PartTimeModel Mon 04-Feb-13 14:40:11

Good question Doris! Did he take the paracetamol (from the UK) that he returned with ON TOP of the paracetamol that was actually condoms? ie he took paracetamol, ibuprofen AND condoms all from home/UK?

Or did he get to destination, discover paracetamol was actually condoms, & go and buy paracetamol locally for back pain?

Still none of this proves anything, and if he was shagging around he can buy condoms anywhere ..............

claire96 Mon 04-Feb-13 14:46:53

If they are dated 2014 and you have been together around three years wouldn't he have bought them around the time you got together? Could they have been meant for you?

AnyFucker Mon 04-Feb-13 21:09:23

any news, OP ?

calidadsuprema Mon 04-Feb-13 21:34:31

I challenged him to look me straight in the eye and tell me there was nothing sinister about taking condoms on trip. He is either genuine or a vv good liar. He also went into his luggage..he was unpacking at time..and pulled out another washbag with suncream, travel wash, lemsips etc and there were the 4 condoms I saw at xmas...all dated aug 2014. I think I will give him benefit of doubt. His body language looks genuine

kalidanger Mon 04-Feb-13 21:53:28

Phew smile

AnyFucker Mon 04-Feb-13 21:56:40

Ok. If you are happy with the outcome, that is all that matters.

Does he understand why you are upset, though ? Tried to make you feel bad, or got unduly angry with you ?

Did his explanation for having them in the first place, and for why he took them with him, tally with what you felt was feasible ?

Did he try and tell you it was for posh wanking ? wink

calidadsuprema Mon 04-Feb-13 22:19:37

AF..he was calm and listened to how I have been feeling...seemed to understand my fears. No trying to belittle my worries...genuinely feels like an idiot for grabbing a ziploc bag from the bathroom drawer without checking in detail what ut contained.
He continued to unpack as we chatted and he was completely unfazed when I scanned through the pile of receipts he has brought back.

AnyFucker Mon 04-Feb-13 22:25:37

OK. Sounds feasible to me.

MumVsKids Mon 04-Feb-13 22:40:45

This is the type of thing my DH would do, just grab random stuff.

Glad it's a good outcome op smile

TheCatIsEatingIt Mon 04-Feb-13 22:42:08

Relieved for you. smile

LittleEdie Mon 04-Feb-13 23:09:45

Phew!

newbiefrugalgal Mon 04-Feb-13 23:12:54

Glad you are happy OP.

However I'm a little confused. Did you know they were in the ziplock bag?
I think if we knew early on they were in a bag like this rather than him just grabbing a box of pracetemol that he had earlier tidied up and put condoms in, wonder if everyone here would have been as suspicious?

abbyfromoz Tue 05-Feb-13 00:15:12

Really pleased for you smile

BagCat Tue 05-Feb-13 00:22:26

Great ending! smile

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Tue 05-Feb-13 01:03:11

I wouldn't put too much weight in the 'he looked me in the eye'. Been there, done that - eventually became an ex as my gut instinct was right and he was fucking seeing someone else - whilst looking me in the eye, telling me he wasn't sad

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Tue 05-Feb-13 01:04:48

Don't ignore your true gut feeling because you want this to be the truth - listen to what your gut is saying. I hope it's saying he's telling the truth but if it's not you need to act on it and not sweep it under the carpet.

Abitwobblynow Tue 05-Feb-13 06:29:06

Brilliant ending - because for me the importance lies in that you talked to him, - and he listened and took you seriously.

With that dynamic (the only thing I wish for) you can solve anything. Humans make mistakes - partners care about eachother enough to solve them.

AgathaF Tue 05-Feb-13 07:38:16

Good outcome - I'm pleased for you.

BelaLugosisShed Tue 05-Feb-13 07:54:25

Yay, a condom thread with a resolution, first time ever I think.
Good news Cali.

PartTimeModel Wed 06-Feb-13 15:40:03

Fantastic & well played cali

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