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Anyone have a DP who's a really picky eater? (Long)

(219 Posts)
gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 10:42:14

When I got married, I couldn't really cook. I was still living like a student and I was always on a diet. I'd never cooked for more than myself, so you don't exactly learn how to roast a chicken or bake a cake, do you? I was keen to learn though. Four years of rejected dinners later, I have to work really hard to reassure myself that I'm not a bad cook. My DH is an infuriatingly picky eater. Night after night, his dinner goes in the bin. Sometimes I'm sitting eating the same meal thinking, "This is nice." He'll push it around, eat maybe a third of it, then give up. He knows better than to say, "This isn't like my mum's", but that's part of it. Incidentally, I've had his mum's cooking and it really is awful. He's a 33 year old man and I once, when I'd identified a meal that he would eat, gave it to him every night for a week! (It was chicken, new potatoes and salad.) He ate it happily, night after night, then eventually he requested a change. I'm so sick of this and it causes arguments. He never cooks. I think it's disrespectful, if someone has gone to the bother of cooking for you, to refuse to eat it. I grew up in a kind of "clear your plate" home, whereas he would have been allowed to leave whatever he wanted. He'll cover his food in salt and pepper before tasting it, and also go directly from his abandoned dinner to get a packet of crisps, which I find outrageously insulting. When he comes home and asks, "What's for dinner?" I don't want to answer him because whatever I say, he'll pull a face. I have gone on strike, once. I didn't cook for a week. He lived on takeaways before apologising and meekly asking me to start cooking again. Anyone ever had anything similar?

sparklyjumper Mon 21-Jan-13 10:46:51

I've never had this problem my boyfriends have all been greedy eat anything types. I don't believe in finishing your plate but I do think what he's doing is rude. Tell him to make his own!

Phineyj Mon 21-Jan-13 10:50:09

Could he have an eating disorder? If not, he is very rude and entitled. There's no law says the woman has to do all the cooking! My DH does most of ours, and I certainly wouldn't bin food someone had been kind enough to cook for me.

dequoisagitil Mon 21-Jan-13 10:51:56

Is he like this generally in the relationship? Does he do household chores? Does he put you down in other ways?

This is shit behaviour on his part, it's rude and nasty. I can't believe you've put up with this crap for four years. I also only learnt to cook during my marriage and dh wouldn't dream of behaving in this manner (not to mention he does half the cooking anyway).

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Jan-13 10:52:32

Never had anything similar and wouldn't tolerate it if I did. Cook for yourself, tell him to sort himself out, and let him deal with the malnutrition.... "What's for dinner?"..... "Whatever you like, I've already eaten!"

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Mon 21-Jan-13 10:55:36

Yup, just stop cooking for him. He doesn't like the food you cook, so he can fucking well feed himself.
If he moans, point out to him that he doesn't like what you cook so you're not going to waste any more time - or waste any more food, for that matter.

If he then moves on to criticizing the way you clean the house, do the laundry, or perform sexually, then you will know that it's not about him being a picky eater, it's about his intention to train you into submission, and you can make plans to leave him.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Jan-13 10:56:37

" have gone on strike, once. I didn't cook for a week. "

Should have extended it to a month... smile

kalidanger Mon 21-Jan-13 10:56:56

Mate, I'd have given up cooking for him years ago! He's so rude and lazy. How in earth does he justify never ever coking for you both??
I had to dance around my ex in the kitchen as our different cultures meant he kinda didn't trust my food grin I had to persuade him that 'English style' wouldn't poison him. He ended up begging for mashed swede and carrot grin Point is though; he cooked all the time as he liked his style, and so did I. We shared.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 10:58:08

Are you his personal chef ? Even someone in his employment would not put up with this dickign around and would have left for a better job a long time ago.

Are you really still cooking for this twat ?

I can't believe anyone would do that.

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 11:00:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Four years of rejected dinners later

WTF? Why are you still cooking at all for him. Tell him to bloody learn to cook and he can cook for you for the next four fucking years while you turn your nose up.

Catsdontcare Mon 21-Jan-13 11:03:38

I am constantly baffled as to why people tolerate this sort of shit from the partners when the solution is simple. Cook for yourself and leave him to sort himself. It really is that simple.

DancingInTheMoonlight Mon 21-Jan-13 11:07:59

You sit him down, tell him what you have told us and tell him he can cook for himself from now on. Make it clear its not a debate but what is going to happen..

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:09:30

He is a spoiled little prince whose mum's very limited repertoire has almost bred him into an eating disorder. Anything unfamiliar is more than he can deal with. I, on the other hand, can now cook hundreds of different things because I keep trying. He does absolutely nothing around the house. If I nag him relentlessly, we'll have a massive argument about how I'm a domestic slave and then he'll resentfully wash a sink full of dishes. I've decided that it's not worth a big fight to get some dishes done. The thing is, I work much shorter hours than he does, so it does seem logical that I should do most of the housework. He is rude, entitled and lazy, but I know exactly why. His mother has actually told me that if I don't want to "look after her boy", then she'll come over and do it. Believe me, I would let her, but she lives 200 miles away and doesn't drive. I didn't live with him before I married him (because of my own parents' old fashioned ideas.) If I had, I would never have married him.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 11:09:37

I don't think for one minute this immature dickery is confined just to mealtimes.

Theala Mon 21-Jan-13 11:10:49

The fool. I am a picky eater - I'm trying to cure myself but it's taking a while - so I do most of the cooking in our house. This means that a.) I get to eat things I actually like and b.) DP doesn't waste time and money cooking things I don't like.
When DP does cook, I always eat what he makes, because to do otherwise would just be mean.

So, yeah, give him a basic cookery book and point him in the direction of the kitchen.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Jan-13 11:11:21

If you'd never have married this 'Little Prince' & he's proved to be an all-round failure, is there any real reason why you stick around flogging this very dead horse?

BagCat Mon 21-Jan-13 11:11:31

I wouldn't be cooking for him. He's not a two year old, but he sounds like it. I really cannot stand people who are fussy like that! I was brought up that if someone cooks for you - you eat it out of good manners and you tell the perssn that made it that it was bloody nice! (unless it's something you absolutely, genuinely hate - even then you'd never be rude about it).

My friend's DH, a similar age is the same and it pisses me off royally. I've cooked for him as a guest in the past, made things he said he liked beforehand in an effort to get him to eat my food and it's a case of, "Oh, that's not how it looks when my mum makes it" or, "I'm soooooo full", etc. And it's the same when we've went to lovely restaurants, every single time. Completely embarrassing for a thirty-something person to be pushing their food around with a fork. The thing is, if I put down a McDonald's in front of him - he'd polish it off in 2 seconds. Grrr!

Give him the keys to the kitchen and tell him to fill his boots! You are not his mother.

kalidanger Mon 21-Jan-13 11:12:07

Seems like OP is stumbling towards the light at the end of the tunnel wink

You thinking of having children with this child?

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 11:12:12

ah, cross posted

just as I thought

OP, unless you want to be a domestic drudge with the status of a vacuum cleaner with a vagina, I suggest you take bold steps to make him sort his act out, or you walk

I wouldn't have tolerated it for so long, and neither would many women. You have a poor chance of being treated like an equal in your own home when you take on a "spoilt prince" like this. Did you think you could "train" him ? That he would magically turn into a good and unselfish person with your love ?

Thing again

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 11:12:35


dequoisagitil Mon 21-Jan-13 11:14:48

Time to send him home to mummy.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 11:14:50

Are you in one of those families that doesn't tolerate marriage breakdown ?

Well, I suggest that you stop listening to your family, because they played a large part in you ending up in this shit situation in the first place. Learn, won't you ?

SparkyDudess Mon 21-Jan-13 11:15:18

Wow - I do all cooking in my house, and if my DH ever commented on anything other than to say 'thank you, that was lovely' that would be the end of it. He'd be making himself butties for a very long time! Even if I've made something experimental and it's dire, I still expect him to recognise that I'd tried iyswim.

AF's said it all I think - he sounds very unpleasant indeed.

marriedinwhite Mon 21-Jan-13 11:16:46

I work shorter hours than my DH and do a lot more at home than him. He says thank you and appreciates it and we are a team. Also I was under the weather on Saturday and apparently had a raging temperature all night Sat/Sun. He was really worried and brought me tea in bed yesterday morning and then toast and then more tea .....and ironed all the dc's shirts for school this week and some of his.

He needs a reality check.

Next time he pulls a strop, tell him that from now on he'll be cooking for himself, so he can be sure of getting food that he'll like. You will no longer cook for him until he is willing to make a reasonable fist of eating the food you put in front of him.

"His mother has actually told me that if I don't want to "look after her boy", then she'll come over and do it". Let's see how long it takes. She was stupid to say it when she was living 200 miles away, but it will be interesting to see if youe "D"H does start cooking or just rope him mum in.

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:18:56

TisILeclerk - he's the same when we go out! In fact, we haven't been in a restaurant for six months because I eventually decided it wasn't worth it any more. I've actually given him a piece of paper and asked him to suggest a week's worth of dinners, just to give me a clue. He struggled with that. He always says he wants "something plain". He can't eat anything spicy, cheesy, oily or processed. He has an idea that he'd like to be healthy, but in reality can't deal with a vegetarian meal.

sausagesandwich34 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:20:16

my ex was a very picky eater

the list of things he wouldn't eat included

all veg except carrots
rice that wasn't plain long grain rice
fruit -all fruit
soup other than tinned oxtail
cereals that weren't kelloggs
bread -would only eat warburtons white toastie loaf
crisps other than walkers

he would classify food as brown or orange (stew/shepherds pie/roast dinner/frozen chicken breasts with chips was pretty much all he would eat)

I had to sieve jars of cooking sauces to make sure there wasn't even a trace of onion
if he found even the tiniest trace of anything in his food that he suspected was on the banned list then the meal would be rejected

I cooked for him for 12 years and was constantly told I was a terrible cook, I poisioned him, I couldn't look after him etc etc

I put up with it because it was a EA relationship and I believed him

I didn't drink coffee for 10 years because he didn't like the smell!

he's an ex for a very good reason

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Jan-13 11:21:21

This goes way beyond cooking. This is a selfish, lazy, immature man who sees women - modelled on his indulgent mother, no doubt - as domestic servants. He has no respect for the OP and that goes much deeper than dinners.

Notmadeofrib Mon 21-Jan-13 11:21:25

You need to talk to HRH and start discussing how you can become a partnership and work like a team. He may not want the house as clean as you (for example), but you can compromise on standards and agree how you will live together. This sounds like a more fundamental issue than wasted dinners.

.. does he know you wish you never married him? Would him having to pull his weight mean he'd want to leave? I think you could do with counselling myself, but for me this behaviour would be a total deal breaker and I'd be carefully considering my future.

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 11:22:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sunnywithshowers Mon 21-Jan-13 11:23:17

That's hideous behaviour OP. He sounds like an entitled, spoiled little baby.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Jan-13 11:23:30

Do you have any children OP?

To answer the title, yes, I do. He has quite a long list of stuff he won't or can't eat. I have stuff I don't like, too. We both cook. Mostly we cook stuff everyone likes (3 dcs all with different tastes too!). So sometimes we'll cook variations - we all have curry but we do a hot one (him) and a mild one (me). When I do chicken casserole I put chicken breasts (him) and thighs (me) in and we each pick out the bits we like. Sometimes we both cook ourselves something we really like but the other one can't stand. Sometimes I cook something I think will be ok and he can't manage to eat it - he'll politely tell me it was lovely and get himself a sandwich later.

I do more of the housework because he works longer hours but he still does stuff, and tells me how much he appreciates what I do, and doesn't moan if I don't do it.

Your problem with your dp is not actually about him having fussy eating habits, is it?

ivykaty44 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:24:04

He likes chicken potato and sald

so cook that

if he says he wants a change

then change the plates or the knives and forks - you can always borrow some - but keep cooking the same thing at least that way it will not end up in the bin.

Yourself though cook what you like each night

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 11:25:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lueji Mon 21-Jan-13 11:25:44

I think the only way is to let him cook his own meals. You cook what you like and he does something else if he doesn't like it.

Could you cook with him, so that he starts by helping you and learns how to cook in the process?
At some point he'd do meals by himself.

On plain things, he could have grilled meat or fish (or boiled fish) and plain rice or boiled potatos, or pasta. Always have salad, then, which is healthy and you should too.

Will he ever, say, vaccuum clean, if you tell him to do it while you do something else? Or clean the bathroom while you do the laundry, for example?

At some point you will have to tell him that he starts pulling his weight, or you'll stop catering for him (food, clothes).

PeppermintPasty Mon 21-Jan-13 11:28:36

Gordon bennett what a pain in the arse he sounds.

What's stopping you from going back to no cooking (for him) that you did for a week. Make it permanent. Let him cook his own stuff.

You're a long time dead, it's such a waste of your time and energy.

GetOrf Mon 21-Jan-13 11:28:48

You will never fix this man. So why bother trying? He sounds monumentally selfish. Don't make the mistake of putting up with this shite - in a minute you will be middles aged and would have spent 20 years putting up with a miserable, entitled wanker of a husband.

The problem with men like this is that they think they are fundamentally more important than you, and that your time is less valuable as theirs. Does he leave laundry all over the floor? Refuse to clean the bath? Leave teaspoons and cups and other detritus around the house for muggings (you) to clean up? If he is like this as 25, he will be the same at 35, 45, 55 and 65. He will NOT change. He can modify his behaviour, but the reasons which caused the behaviour will remain intact.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 11:28:49

OP, I suggest you get over the "emotional abuse" long running support thread in Relationships

those ladies know what you are talking about, and what you are living with

I hope you decide sooner rather than later than being single is infinitely better than being with a jumped up Hitler Wannabe who thinks he is Lord and Master in his own house

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 11:29:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeppermintPasty Mon 21-Jan-13 11:30:42

And sausage -you had to sieve sauces???

Wow. I'm boggling at that one, what a prize tw*t he was!!

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:30:56

Wow, a lot of what you've said has really hit home. I do come from a family that will not tolerate marriage breakdown. It has crossed my mind that this is an EA relationship. Even so, I will admit that it's partly my fault. The continued, dogged determination to keep cooking is pure stubborness. But for all of you saying let him cook his own dinner... he does no housework. I will ask him to sometimes, he'll even mildly reply that yes, he'll do the dishes etc... then he simply doesn't. He has cooked maybe half a dozen times in four years. I heaped praise on his efforts, then retreated to the kitchen to clean up the absolute chaos that he had created. I do have a child with this child. If I left him, he'd presumably get one-to-one access to her every weekend, which he doesn't get just now.

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 11:31:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PeppermintPasty Mon 21-Jan-13 11:31:33

You're welcome wink

GetOrf Mon 21-Jan-13 11:32:13

So because your family do not tolerate marriage breakdown, you have to tolerate this life of misery?

What would your family do if you left him? Do they think that you should have a life of drudgery?

NettleTea Mon 21-Jan-13 11:36:28

yes. my EA ex husband did this. he did it in restaurants too, and still does. I stopped cooking for him. just cooked for myself. luckily he worked in catering so he ate where he worked.
he was an arse though in all areas, and sounds like yours is too.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 11:36:53

if you left him, you would get time for yourself to build a better life without this manchild in it

he would simply take your dc to mummy's anyway wouldn't he, and outsource his parenting to her

unless you think dc would not be safe in his care that is a good thing, IMO

if dc are not safe in his care, then you have a very different problem (and even more of a reason to end your marriage)

Lueji Mon 21-Jan-13 11:36:55

If he is that picky with food, he'll have to sort out his own food, FGS.

If he can't, then let him leave to his mum, or let her come and do all the housework while you rest with your feet up.

I bet he's more trouble than your own child.

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 11:40:05

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:41:16

God, I'm so used to it, I don't regard it as a life of misery. It is a bit lonely, though. I'm afraid to admit that's why I had dd. (Storing up trouble for the future, I know.) I'm ashamed to admit that I've made a mistake, so I'm trying to make the best of it. He's no company, no help, no fun. Oh dear, I will go over to the EA thread, but I'm just going to get loads of "LTB".

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 11:43:48

No Gail, you won't get loads of LTB on the EA thread. Those women know how hard it is.

Just a word about your dd though. Do you want her to grow up and think that women are there just to be subservient to men ? That is a very damaging lesson for her.

TisILeclerc Mon 21-Jan-13 11:45:15

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

marriedinwhite Mon 21-Jan-13 11:47:42

Just another thought - my fil was incredibly fussy - he didn't eat the following:

"foreign food"

For breakfast he ate: a braeburn apple, muesli with extra raisins (had to be sunpat), a glass of orange juice, wholemeal toast with lime marmalade, a teaspoon of honey, tea afterwards - milk first and had to be made in a pot. All in a dictated order.

Lunch: A cheese sandwich with a pickled onion, no butter and cheese had to go in horizontally.

Looking back I think he was borderline aspergers and that MIL pandered to it. Could there be some of that going on?

InNeatCognac Mon 21-Jan-13 11:48:48

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:50:00

TisILeClerk It's not a religious thing, no. AnyFucker It's because of dd that I'm on here - I don't want her to grow up thinking this is normal. But as long as I can do it all (and I can) I feel that she'll see a woman who can do everything. I work, keep the house, do all the childcare stuff... I'm like a single parent with two kids, but one of them isn't mine.

weegiemum Mon 21-Jan-13 11:50:48

Would you tolerate this picky stuff from your dc?

My dd1 (nearly 13 and Don't We Know It) is going through a picky phase. Last night, dinner was Irish Stew, which she loved (and one of dh's faves, being Irish and all that!).

Last night she point blank refused it. Said she wasn't hungry. So she sat (sulkily) at the table with us. Later in the evening she was refused crisps, biscuits, chocolate (though I know dh slipped her a Heroes!) and was told if she was now hungry it was either (leftover) stew, toast & butter (no jam, no nutella), fruit and yoghurt. She ate a bowl of apple and natural yoghurt.

But then, here we have a rule "if you don't eat it, Dad will!"

I agree your issue is much bigger than just he food. I also didn't live with dh before we married (18 years ago though!) but out of our own convictions, not family ones. But if my dh had turned out to be a controlling arse (he's the furthest possible from that!) I'd have left, whatever family thought.

He's acting like a toddler over food. He's acting like an abuser generally. Please look after yourself and your dc.

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 11:52:15

marriedinwhite Shit! DH doesn't like different foods touching each other!! He cuts everything into little squares before he begins eating!!

dequoisagitil Mon 21-Jan-13 11:54:13

Isn't she going to have a very peculiar view of men 'though. OK, women can do everything! Go us!

And men, well, they do fuck all but moan & behave like twats. But we let them hang around, because ... of what? Is this the kind of husband you'd like for her?

To be honest, I would let him sort his own dinners. Just stop cooking for him saying it is a total waste. Tell him he will have to learn to cater for his own bland taste.

Your dd might end up with an eating disorder at this rate.

Do you work?

Catchingmockingbirds Mon 21-Jan-13 12:20:15

DP is an incredibly fussy eater, but so am I and DS has AS so is very fussy wrt too. It's not really a huge issue in our house because we're all such fussy eaters that often 2 or 3 seperate dinners are made or if one big dinner is getting cooked then we make sure we all like whats going to be cooked (and there's often, for instance, veg prepared and cooked 3 different ways) so there aren't a lot of dinners thrown in the bin.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 12:26:14

You have it the wrong way round, Gail

Yes, you can be a good example to your dd if you "do it all". But that only computes if you are a single parent and there isn't a critical man sitting on his arse nearby while you pander to his whims.

That is a poor example to her

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Jan-13 12:27:33

What kind of delusionally misogynistic family doesn't allow someone to dry-run the relationship by living together and then doesn't tolerate marriage breakdown either? It's like saying 'we don't believe in test-driving a car before buying but we don't believe in selling it once you've bought it...'


gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 12:30:17

I'm a full-time secondary school teacher! I'm on maternity leave just now, though. dequoi I would actively encourage dd to live with a partner before considering marriage! I didn't "marry my dad" though. My dad was (still is) a really active, handy, hard working man. DH won't change a lightbulb, and I'm not exaggerating. I hide how hopeless he is in RL. I feel it reflects badly on me. Bad judge of character.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 12:33:28

The only thing that would be "bad" in this context is to recognise him for what he is (like you have done) but then stay regardless.

It's like throwing good money after bad. Acknowledging that shiny new car is actually an old banger that requires more and more investment from you with nothing in return except being constantly let down.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Jan-13 12:39:23

The only person you protect by hiding the reality of the situation is him. Fortunately (or sadly depending on how you look at it) the reality of getting into a relationship with what you think is a fully-formed grown-up only to discover they are a selfish, lazy 'kidult' after a relatively short space of time is so common that I don't think anyone you share it with IRL would be all that shocked, let alone unsupportive.

I've said this to other MN-ers but I think it can be a handicap if you are an intelligent, successful, resourceful and capable woman.... which you clearly are. Because someone with that personality type often does not want to admit defeat, does not like to own up to mistakes and will keep flogging that dead horse way beyond the point when most would have quit. You're already painting this (wrongly IMHO) as being a good example for your DD, making the best of it and doubtless have your sleeves rolled up ready for yet more years of this rubbishy treatment and see it as a challenge. That's your decision, obviously, but do recognise that there is a time and place for teeth-gritted tenacity.... and this probably isn't it.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 21-Jan-13 12:44:20

I'm ashamed to admit that I've made a mistake, so I'm trying to make the best of it

I hide how hopeless he is in RL. I feel it reflects badly on me. Bad judge of character.

Which gives him a free pass to carry on as he is, a spoiled little prince in your words. You can't polish a turd. Just because he doesn't raise a hand to you, doesn't mean you have no grounds for speaking out or wanting better.

I won't say LTB, let him go home to MIL.

" I hide how hopeless he is in RL. I feel it reflects badly on me. Bad judge of character."

You clearly made a mistake marrying him. But not one that cant be rectified!

Ok so you made a poor judgment in marrying him but you do not have to compound this error by putting up with this self entitled manchild you have living with you. Another 3-5 years of this will surely grind you down even more than you already are.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. He was never your proeject to rescue and or save, perhaps you thought somehow that he would change once he became a parent.

What do you want to teach your DD about relationships here?. This current model she is being shown is certainly not fit for purpose and is damaging you let alone her. You've basically carried on where his mother left off.

Notmadeofrib Mon 21-Jan-13 13:01:01

we all make mistakes, the clever thing is know when and learning from them... speak to him. Tell him. If he won't listen then, well you have to decide.

You are missing out on life if you do nothing.

Helltotheno Mon 21-Jan-13 13:08:58

OP you sound very passive and like someone who is afraid not to do everything others want. For this reason alone, you should be going to counselling and looking at ways to address the issue because you have a very very short life to live (like us all) and it would be a shame to waste another precious minute of your health and happiness trying to please a namby pamby, control freak mummy's boy or your parents for that matter.

If you do stay, rest assured that your daughter will 100% replicate the same pattern with men in her life. That's a given. So what if he has to see her at the weekend. You can always make sure it doesn't coincide with meal times!

So yep, an overwhelming LTB stat from me smile

MouseyHousey Mon 21-Jan-13 13:25:48

My DH is the fussiest eater I know, there is probably about 20 foods that he eats and he just lives off those. I dont cook for him unless he will eat what Im cooking for the rest of us (thats only 2 meals)
I really think he has an eating disorder/food phobia but he refuses to go to the doctor about it.
Please dont waste anymore of your time/food on cooking for this unappreciative man. I'd say make the meal he will eat once a week and the other days just leave him to make something for himself.

ladyWordy Mon 21-Jan-13 13:31:48

Interesting about cutting the food up, and not having foods touching each other! Let me digress a little.

I was once told of a relative, who as a child would want all his food on different plates. If he didn't have that, he would scream blue murder and hide under the table.

Nowadays, given his other behaviour, we would be looking into a possible ASD type issue (it was many decades ago). His mother got the blame for allowing it, of course: but having seen a few mums with ASD children, I think you have to adapt or you wouldn't cope. It's very entrenched behaviour.

So: very untypical behaviour around ANYBODY'S food (not just yours) means a look at ASD might be in order - BUT - this in no way excuses any abusive behaviour.

Nor does it excuse his doing nothing around the house. That's something different. Rude, entitled and lazy is nothing to do with Asperger's.

I am a picky eater myself, but that's my problem. I would be mortified if I upset anybody because of it, and wouldn't expect anyone to chop and change for FOUR YEARS to accommodate me!

ThreeTomatoes Mon 21-Jan-13 13:34:28

I'm reading your thread with a combination of shock and confused on my face!

Sounds like you do need to think about LTB, but for starters I would say definitely stop doing anything for him that's for HIM. He should sort his own food, do his own washing up, do his own laundry. ONLY do what you need to do for you & dd. Literally refuse and keep repeating it's his stuff, he has to do it. When he runs out of clean clothes or gets hungry (or fed up of takeaways) he'll soon sort himself out.
The other housework stuff you'll have to work out yourself what you can put up with.

sheesh how do you bear it!!

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 14:04:55

Helltotheno The funny thing is, I'm not passive at all! I'm known as a bossy, opinionated person! In my own home though, I've given up. I've been fighting this for four years. I've tried reasoning, deal-making, shouting.. I don't have the energy for it any more. It's like banging my head against a wall. After the shouting, nagging and fighting, I'm still going to have to do all the cooking, cleaning, washing, shopping. So why not stop wearing myself out with the protests? I've surrendered. We get on fine as long as I don't complain! Six months ago when I had the baby, I was kept in hospital for a few days. I came home to an utter tip.

He is an entitled incompetent manchild.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 21-Jan-13 14:24:34

"We get on fine as long as I don't complain! "

Quite a lot of dysfunctional relationships stagger on precisely that way. Does nothing for your self-esteem and does nothing to address his behaviour.

Catchingmockingbirds Mon 21-Jan-13 14:32:49

Six months ago when I had the baby, I was kept in hospital for a few days. I came home to an utter tip.

The exact same thing happened with me and my ex when I took DS home from the hospital. I persevered and stuck with him for a further 2 years before I ended things. It was the best decision I've ever made, I'm now with a great DP (despite his food fussiness grin!) and we're getting married next year.

His fussiness with food isn't the problem here I don't think, as I said upthread I've got a houseful of very fussy eaters including me and it doesn't cause huge problems, it's his lack of respect for you that's the issue.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 14:41:24

There is something deeply unsexy about a fussy man.

Catchingmockingbirds Mon 21-Jan-13 14:45:53

I'd need to disagree with you there anyfucker!

Helltotheno Mon 21-Jan-13 15:00:47

I don't see a need for people to be 'fussy eaters' unless there's an allergy/illness issue. If fussy eaters were put on an island, they'd stop being fussy eaters quick smart and start harpooning whales 'n shiz...

A first world prob imo.

The OP's DH's prob is bigger than food though...

Spanglemum Mon 21-Jan-13 15:03:07

I would echo what others have said and suggest you look into ASD/Aspergers, though it can be very difficult to get a diagnosis as an adult. That does not excuse the laziness, rudeness and entitledness.

My DH is a much better cook than me and does most of the cooking. He has a few issues around food. On the rare occasions he has complained about something I've made I lost no time in telling him how rude he was being. Does your DH know he's rude? Does he work? Is he useless there as well?

You don't have to stay married for cultural or religious reasons.

Good luck

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 15:09:34

We can agree to disagree, catching smile

I bet your bloke is lovely despite being a bit silly about food. This bloke here is using food as a weapon to hurt his wife. A very different prospect.

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 15:17:37

Spanglemum If I point out how rude he's being, I always get the same answer: When he was growing up, there was no "eat your dinner" pressure. If he didn't want it, he simply left it and that was fine. It's not like he says to me, "I can't eat this, it's disgusting." He just rises, goes into the kitchen and scrapes it into the bin. He'll do that whether it's noodles or fillet steak. Sometimes he's done it four nights in a row. I'm obviously a bit angry about this and sometimes say something. He does work, he's always in bother in work for taking longer than everyone else to get through the work. He's very methodical, he probably checks his work again and again instead of just rushing through it like everyone else. He stays late to get it all done. When he comes home he just sits down in front of the tv. Growing up, his dad had a really good job. He provided lots of money - he wouldn't have been expected to do anything in the house.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 21-Jan-13 15:21:01

Okay ignoring other aspects of life with him - how about if you just say,
"I'm eating a main meal at lunchtime, I am just having something very simple like soup or scrambled eggs or a cheese toastie in the evening. If you don't fancy that get yourself something substantial to eat at lunchtime and we'll eat something snacky together at home".

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 21-Jan-13 15:21:31

This isn't just about food though, is it.

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 15:30:01

Actually, one of his main complaints about my food is that I give him too much. Trying to fill him up, so he doesn't eat crisps, which has come to really bother me. And Donkeys, he can't eat the food in the staff canteen at work! He often eats nothing all day, and comes home starving. He still can't eat my cooking though. I sometimes wonder if he has, like, a dulled sense of taste. He enjoys nothing.

MrsPennyapple Mon 21-Jan-13 15:37:15

I was going to suggest saying what I used to say to my ex-h: "When YOU'RE cooking, YOU can decide what we have." Or when asked what's for dinner: "Whatever you decide to cook, darling." But that was back at the start of the thread. Having read the rest, I wouldn't even bother. I just don't see what you are getting out of this relationship, nor do I see any way that this can possibly change.

I understand your stubbornness. I speak as someone who stayed in a physically abusive relationship for three years, having moved out of home at 17, against my mother's wishes, to be with this man. One of the main reasons I stuck it out was because I thought "I've made my bed, I have to lie in it."

Well, you don't. You don't have to stay with this man.

OP, how old is your DD; ifyou're on maternity leave, is she even weaned yet?

I would be concerned about the messages that her dad is onveying to her about food; does he see his behaviour around food as abnormal i.e. as something that he doesn't want to pass on to his daughter.

As an aside, your post further up the thread mentioned "If I left him, he'd presumably get one-to-one access to her every weekend, which he doesn't get just now." Why doesn't he spend 1:1 time with his baby daughter now?

Lueji Mon 21-Jan-13 15:53:18

You "give" him too much?
Can't he serve himself?

HotDAMNlifeisgood Mon 21-Jan-13 15:58:42

He just rises, goes into the kitchen and scrapes it into the bin.

And how does that make you feel?

He still can't eat my cooking though.

Can't, or won't?

He enjoys nothing.

Sounds like he enjoys making you feel like shit, actually.

Lueji Mon 21-Jan-13 16:00:26

What strikes me on all this is how he is kept alive if he's eating so little.
Surely he must eat at work or something?
Or just eats crisps?

Dozer Mon 21-Jan-13 16:06:14

Why are you still cooking for / doing domestics for him?!

Dozer Mon 21-Jan-13 16:08:43

My friend had a manchild like this, she left him, he got a new girlfriend, who does all the hard work during access visits from the DC at weekends. He found another mug!

forgetmenots Mon 21-Jan-13 16:12:26

My DF is like this. He is generally a lovely man but I do not know how my DM has not poured his dinner over him before now. Withdrawal of labour is a definite and very basic next step.

Dozer Mon 21-Jan-13 16:13:29

Let him eat crisps!

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Mon 21-Jan-13 16:14:50

Any culture which opposes marriage breakdown is primitive barbarian misogyny and should be rejected. Fuck all this 'respect' for groups of people who think it's OK to pressure women into accepting abuse for their entire lives.

OP, trying to convince yourself to accept subhuman status and obey your master will make you ill in the long run. Resentment poisons you. I would strongly suggest that you find out your options WRT ending this shitty marriage - would it be better to throw him out of the house or leave with DD? How much maintenance would you get, and what would be available by way of maintenance? Make sure you have all this information, because women-hating men like your H will lie when told that they are unsatisfactory and therefore duped. He will tell you that he won't pay maintenance, that he will get custody of DD, etc etc, and it will all be bullshit. He's contemptible, so don't waste any time or effort worrying about his feelings, just concentrate on looking after yourself and DD. As to the fact that he will eat crisps rather than cook, let him. His diet is no longer your problem.

YulaBaker Mon 21-Jan-13 16:18:53

I have ASD and a really big problem with food.

I could eat something one day, but the next it would make me gag.

Food can't touch and has to be separate. I would separate foods that need it ,ie fish and batter, I seperate chicken from a sauce etc. if bean juice touches anything I couldn't eat what was on the plate, even the opposite side of the beans, but love beans in the juice.

Things have to be eaten in order and I can't eat out the house. I did a six hour shift today (normally only four) and was starving but couldn't eat.

I have to psyc myself up for eating. its a battle.

We went to Spain in the summer for two weeks and on day 4 I was crying and begging to be fed through a drip.

My main issue is texture...serious issue with texture. I'm hungry now but don't want to put anything in my mouth. anything overly gloopy, dry, hard, etc.

I'm never ever rude to others through it through (my hunger has caused meltdowns, but thats different imo)

Lueji Mon 21-Jan-13 16:20:29

His diet has never been your problem. He's an adult.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 16:24:19

I don't understand how you can stay with someone who sucks the joy out of life in this way.

How fucking grim. One life we get. Just one.

BranchingOut Mon 21-Jan-13 16:24:39

Would he eat anything you could freeze? eg. Shepherd's pie.

Having read the thread and taken on board that you don't want to LTB or anything drastic, I suggest the following:

Clear out the freezer
Buy a stack of foil or plastic containers.
Make a huge batch of something he will eat, in individual portions.
Defrost and warm it up for him each day.

Tell him that he has 20 meals, or whatever, in there. This is to allow him time to work out some meals that you can both eat and that he will cook at least once a week, every week.

BUT - once those ready made meals are gone you won't be making any more. From that point forward, he is either going to suggest meals he will eat, eat the food you make and also cook for you all on a regular basis.

PeppermintPasty Mon 21-Jan-13 16:28:48

My suggestion is -a big family pack of crisps.


ladyWordy Mon 21-Jan-13 16:30:21

The fact that he rejects food at work as well, and still rejects food despite hunger, shows this isn't only about your food. There is a problem with food, per se, and a problem in your relationship as well.

When he's rude, what sort of things does he say? You mentioned scraping food wordlessly into the bin. shock Does he do anything else, or have any particular expression on his face when he does it?

I'm not suggesting you have to put up with it - just asking ( you don't have to answer of course).

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 16:37:31

perhaps the constant low sugar turns him nasty

I am trying to diet the half stone I put on over xmas away, and I am ratty today

is he underweight ? Ketone smell on his breath ? Lethargic and uninterested in everything ?

Habble Mon 21-Jan-13 16:40:24

I've beens struck by your latest posts at how incredibly like a child he sounds.

You're trying to get him not to fill up on crisps, you have to "nag" him to do simple chores.

Why isn't he taking responsibility for himself? He's a grown adult who presumably manages to cope with the rest of the world - why does he feel he can get away with being incapable around you?

Wishihadabs Mon 21-Jan-13 16:44:01

He does sound like he has an eating disorder. Is he underweight ? What is his general health like ?

Helltotheno Mon 21-Jan-13 16:46:03

He just rises, goes into the kitchen and scrapes it into the bin.

Do you have a dog/cat? Because you could also put a nice helping of dog crap on his plate seeing as how that would be about equal to him throwing a plate of good dinner into the bin every single night that someone has gone to the trouble of cooking for him. Disrespectful twunt wouldn't last a day in my house that's for sure.

But I don't get the feeling from your posts that you're going to do anything to change things OP so ... good luck throwing your life away on an arse I guess sad

expatinscotland Mon 21-Jan-13 16:51:06

What SolidGold said. 100%. This isn't about food.

I havent read the whole thread, just the OP, but your problem is not a picky eater, its a rude, entitled man child.

"He just rises, goes into the kitchen and scrapes it into the bin."

How do you stand this? I wouldn't cook for this idiot ever again!

As for LTB, hard to say - I couldn't put up with this, but then I wouldn't have already been doing it for 4 years...

So, even if he does not enjoy it, why does he not eat to ensure he does not starve ?

What, or where, does he eat instead?

OxfordBags Mon 21-Jan-13 17:00:15

Please, PLEASE get it out of your head that by doing everything and putting up with his crap, that you will be setting an example of being a strong woman to your DD when she is older. What you will actually be doing is literally training her to be a future abuse victim.

expatinscotland Mon 21-Jan-13 17:00:40

He would be eating my shorts, seriously.

On mat leave, now's the time to leave!

bestsonever Mon 21-Jan-13 17:00:46

I have experience of a few awkward eaters in my time. One thing I've learnt is that it's usually the tip of the iceberg and is associated with other behavioral issues, to the point where I think I now consider it a 'red flag'. Hmm.. only last year an OD experience where the 'vegetarian' had never heard of lots of veg I love to eat (I'm not even veggie) and didn't, as it turned out, like veg much either (favourite meal being egg and chips lol!!). The manchild was binned for other reasons after a few meets, but it's a sign. My DS' father - host of issues, past anorexia also. I can think of others, surprising how common it is, but then you make a connection and realize that they are odd in other ways too, so best avoided IMO

ThreeTomatoes Mon 21-Jan-13 17:27:26

I actually feel very strongly against the 'clean plate' thing, forcing a child (or anyone) to eat when or what they don't want to eat etc, I think it could possibly lead to problems later in life. a lot of people see dd as being pretty fussy, and i suppose it could partly be down to the fact that i've never made her eat anything she didn't like (it's very difficult to persuade her to try something new, too) but i started a thread on MN ages ago naming her 'fussy', listed everything she eats and was told off for labelling her as such as actually she does eat a wide variety of food, you just need to know what, and how! (just not much fresh fruit & veg, at least on their own as they are) I have no problem with people unable to finish a meal i've cooked saying 'sorry i'm full up,' or 'i don't like x', that's fine - i can't think of anything worse than trying to finish a plateful of food, under pressure from the chef, when i'm full.

So as far as i'm concerned your dp has a point about that side of things. But, the way he is is an entirely different matter and this sounds like an excuse to me! Eating crisps straight away, throwing the plateful away every time, having absolutely no shame about you going to the trouble to cook for him every time when he'll hardly eat any of it, etc etc. Added to that, the fact he does nothing else around the house.

Really, truly, STOP COOKING FOR HIM! (sorry for shouting!)

Crinkle77 Mon 21-Jan-13 18:03:25

tell him to eff and make his own tea

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Mon 21-Jan-13 18:05:50

In general, it can be difficult to strike a balance with children between forcing them to eat something that they really dislike, or eat more than they have the appetite for... and allowing them to live on chips and sweets and burgers.

I appreciate that some adults have disordered eating (the poster upthread who clearly has major food issues) but adults with good manners inform other people that they have disordered eating, find it difficult to be cooked for, and do their best not to be rude and offensive.

Whether or not this man has an actual food problem, he has a bigger problem in that he is lazy, selfish and sexist. SO, OP, if you don't want to leave him, you really do need to stop cooking for him. Cook what you like to eat and whatever you feel is appropriate for your DD to eat, and if the man complains, just say 'You don't like the food I cook, so I'm not wasting my time, or our money, or food on you any longer.'

schoolgovernor Mon 21-Jan-13 18:30:53

If you really want to stay with this energy vampire (because that's what he is, it's about much more than food)...
Every time he discards the better part of a meal, half the portion the next night. You can be nice and have a bit set aside in case he eats it all and asks for more. I'm not that nice. Keep going even if it means he ends up with a bloody teaspoonful on his plate.
I'm not saying insist he clears his plate, he's not a child. It's reasonable for any of us to leave a little bit of food if we can't eat it. But wasting large quantities is out of order.
The way he views you in the marriage is out of order too of course. As is his mother's attitude to you.

CocktailQueen Mon 21-Jan-13 18:37:42

Oh dear OP, I don't think there's anything else I can say that everyone else hasn't already. Hw about showing him this thread??? I can't beluieve that people have such an entitled attitude. His mum has a lot to answer for.

In th short term - cook for yourself. let him sort himself out. In the long term - what do you want to do? What's the rest of your relationship like?

Tuliprosa Mon 21-Jan-13 18:41:04

I had an ex who was a really fussy eater - he lived on literally nothing but takeaway curry takeaway (always vindaloo) then later chips, pizza and chicken nuggets, once I'd shown him how to work his oven!

The worst thing about staying at his house was that he would only eat one meal a day (usually at night) whereas I was used to three meals a day and a varied diet. Because there was never anything to eat in the house (unless I brought food with me) I'd be famished all day. I did ask him to get some breakfast stuff in (I really struggle function without breakfast) so what did he do? He bought a packet of penguins and presented one on a serviette with plain Walkers crisps arranged around it as a "breakfast in bed treat". I burst out laughing as I thought this must be a joke, but he was actually being deadly serious and subsequently got the right hump with me for being ungrateful!!

I think of myself as a good cook and enjoy cooking from scratch for people, but despite my efforts, he'd turn his nose up at everything I gave him at my house (god forbid if it contained greens, fruit, or anything "exotic") and just order a curry instead! He then had the nerve to complain that I wasn't a size 10 any more - er, what did he expect if he wanted me to eat curry with him all the time??!

He liked to think he knew everything about everything, but was actually so ignorant about cuisine he'd never even been to a restaurant before we started dating (except for The Hungry Horse, which he couldn't understand why I didn't count). I'll never forget my embarrassment the first time I took him to a restaurant and he whinged at the waiter that the measure of wine in his glass was "stingy" - I had to explain to him that the waiter was expecting him to try the wine first!!

The last straw was when he decreed - after moaning about my coffee making skills for the nth time - that it wasn't actually my fault it tasted shit at all, it was because the water in my area tasted minging and I should be grateful that he was "humble" enough to take back his accusation!!!

What a twat. I'm so lucky to be shot of him and to have DP now who's a fantastic cook with adventurous tastes and table manners!

NeedlesCuties Mon 21-Jan-13 20:45:15

I agree with the numerous posters who say that this is about more than just food.

Yes, you're married to him and you care for him, but your own sanity and the well-being of your DD is the main priority.

A quote I live by is, "No matter how far you've gone on the wrong road, turn back."

balotelli Mon 21-Jan-13 20:49:38

Are you sure he isnt ASD?

He has some real bad issues and he aint gonna change.

My advice DTF ..... NOW!

Turn Vegan then see how he manages!

VivaLeBeaver Mon 21-Jan-13 20:55:30

Yes, yes, yes.

I've had similar and I no longer cook for Dh. He's very fussy vegetarian, no meat or fish obviously, no pasta, no rice, no cheese and no eggs.

But also rude. So I'd make something to his requirements and he'd bin it, saying it wasn't nice. Fuck him. My cooking isn't that bad.

I haven't cooked for him for years now, probably 3 or 4. Most liberating thing I've ever done. I cook what I want, eat when I want. He comes back from work and makes himself a salad, jacket potato, cabbage hotspot, whatever he wants. I leave him to it.

Just stop pandering to him. There's no law which says wives must cook for their husbands.

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 21:05:05

Peppermint Haha! How many times have I seriously considered just giving him a smorgasbord of crisps for his dinner? The fact is, I buy the crisps. I buy all the groceries, of course. If I don't buy crisps, he will go out, get into the car, and go on a specific crisp-run, buying two individual packets and eating them all.
Ladywordy: He has been known to sigh or groan as his meal is placed in front of him. He will then take the salt and pepper grinders and encrust his food with both, before tasting it. He might walk into the kitchen to select the condiments that he'll need to make it edible - mayonnaise,vinegar, mint sauce etc. I'm capable of being rude myself. Sometimes when I put the plate down in front of him, I'll offer to save him time and just put it in the bin. Or I'll line up all the dozens of sauce bottles on the table, in a sarcastic manner.
Habble. I suppose he feels that he can get away with being incapable around me because he always does. Suggestions about just not washing up, or simply not doing the housework have been made by all my friends. It doesn't work. All I create is a great big job for myself. I cannot live in squalor. When I came home from the maternity hospital with my new baby, the bin was full, there was rubbish on the floor, and he was down to his last pair of boxer shorts. I put the baby down, told him he was a dick and rolled up my sleeves. I didn't want my visitors to come into that.
PureQuint: He did it again tonight - ate one chicken leg and a potato. Has since eaten a packet of crisps, some Haribo that seemed to come in with him, and a little pot of custard (This is a new thing. Since the baby has started being weaned, he covets her food. As in, "Is this fromage frais for the baby, or can I have it?") He's always looking in the fridge, and some new things have turned up in there since she started on solids. Although he has yet to steal any Ella's Kitchen!
schoolgovernor: It's funny you should call him an "enrgy vampire". I call him "the joy vampire" or "the fun police". He has a sort of "we'll all be dead one day", attitude. He's asleep on the sofa right now. I will try drastically cutting the portion size. I won't do any cooking Fri, Sat, Suns. If I try to make
a feature of his being responsible for dinner, though, it just means a takeaway, which he gets quite excited about but never enjoys.
Tuliprosa: On the subject of table manners - his are awful. He has never been taught how to use a knife and fork. His dad is a surgeon, he went to a posh public school, but he licks his knife and on the odd occasion that he likes something, has been known to lick the plate! I think I prefer it when he just leaves it!

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 21:08:48

he is jealous of the baby's food ?

like a 3 yo big brother ???

seriously ????

why are you with this utter bell-end ?

How do you cope with this behaviour every day? Aren't you furious about doing everything around the house and having the ungrateful toad your DH behave like a toddler?

Lueji Mon 21-Jan-13 21:26:19

I put the baby down, told him he was a dick and rolled up my sleeves. I didn't want my visitors to come into that.

Maybe they should have...

TBH, I'd do enough so that my place looked good enough, my clothes and baby's were clean, and we had food to eat.

I'd let him do his own laundry, his own food and buy his own groceries.

And FGS, stop putting things on the table for him. Let him go and get all the condiments he wants and let him put his own food on his plate. Whatever he wants to eat, but then should eat it.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 21:30:41

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 21:32:51

There have been times when I've gone away for the weekend, just to get away from him, but I've kind of decided that he upsets me as much as I let him, so I choose to not let it bother me. I outsource the ironing, which helps. He's out at work all day.
FireOverBabylon: When I say he does nothing, I mean nothing. He's never bathed the baby, fed her. He's taken her for a walk maybe twice, will change a nappy if I ask him directly, which I very rarely do. If I ask him to hold the baby for a minute, she'll be in her bouncy chair when I come back in the room. He's not interested in her. She's six months old and I'm just weaning her now. She was previously EBF. When I was breastfeeding her he was always going on about how I was overfeeding her, she'd end up obese! I've never left her alone with him. He says that I "spoil" her by going to her when she cries. So, he thinks an infant's food should be rationed and they should be left to cry - would you let him babysit?

PeppermintPasty Mon 21-Jan-13 21:41:25

Blimey that's not nice.

So he's deeply jealous of the baby and deeply resentful of all the attention she gets by the sound of it.

What's the point of him?

NeedlesCuties Mon 21-Jan-13 21:48:11

But it's not 'babysitting' - she is his DD!

I have a DD a month younger and I'd be fecked if DH treated me the way yours treats you. He is laughing at you, taking the total mick.

She's his flesh and blood, he should want to interact with her.

You're his wife, he should want to spend time with you, be nice to you etc etc.

But he doesn't. He's an arse.

NettleTea Mon 21-Jan-13 21:58:54

was he like this when you met him. he must have been nice at some point for you to have married him surely?

expatinscotland Mon 21-Jan-13 21:59:32

What AnyFucker said. He's EA wanker. But it's your life to throw away staying with him.

Bogeyface Mon 21-Jan-13 22:01:30

And you are still with him.....why?

You're not listening are you? either put up with him and stop moaning, or get pro-active and move on!

Bogeyface Mon 21-Jan-13 22:02:29

Just a hunch, but what is sex like?

Is that all about him too?

Undertone Mon 21-Jan-13 22:03:37

Ugh he's just revolting and I don't know how you could bear looking at his miserable, lazy, ungrateful face for the rest of your life. I can see no reason why you should be with him. If you try any more methods of justifying your continued relationship with him you are quite frankly taking the piss.

Kundry Mon 21-Jan-13 22:14:02

If you split, he wouldn't get every weekend as custody. And frankly with his incredible enthusiasm for childcare, he might huff and puff about getting custody to wind you up, but as soon as he actually had to pick her up and do some childcare, his interest would plummet and you wouldn't see him for dust.

I think he'd be gone and you and your DD could have a lovely life that you deserve without him.

Please don't teach your DD that women can do everything because they have to be slaves to abusive wankers. You have loads of time to get rid and if you want, find someone much much better.

ladyWordy Mon 21-Jan-13 22:22:00

Oh....good....grief. There's nothing you can do with that.

Whatever his problem is - and he has a few - he doesn't want to change. So now it's your problem. sad

What do you think you'll do?

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 23:00:28

Look, I am listening! I've told you lot things today that I've never told anyone, ever! I don't think I am moaning, very much. I'm taking responsibility. I've enabled this, I've become a martyr. I'm doggedly determined to not let him beat me! I've just made him a sarcastic cup of tea! I had a tiny chat with him about showing more interest in the baby and he said he will. I'm possibly a bit of a control freak - if I let him cook, he might enjoy it. I ignore him at the moment and he ignores me back. And Bogeyface, since you ask, there has been no sex since dd was born. I'm going to try to connect with him as a partner and not as his mummy/nurse which is not very sexy, even if it sounds a bit pervy!

ThreeTomatoes Mon 21-Jan-13 23:11:59

So, are you going to stop cooking for him???

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 23:19:35

what is a "sarcastic" cup of tea ?

you made him a cup of tea...that is all he is interested being subservient

don't make the fucking tea !

gail734 Mon 21-Jan-13 23:32:59

Tomatoes: I've tried going cold turkey with the cooking, if you'll pardon the pun. It does not work. It's like letting a seven year old loose in the kitchen. I do not want to live in a tip of dirty pots. He'll get up, go to work, and I can either clean it up or just ignore it all day. Maybe I'm a bit obsessive. I'm going to scale back the cooking and gradually encourage him to join in. i think, like a child, that he'd enjoy something he'd cooked himself. I'm going to try to work with him. God forgive me for being stupid, but I thought the baby would give us something in common again. It did not cross my mind that he'd see her as competition.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 23:35:43

It did not cross my mind that he'd see her as competition.

And you are willing to live with that ?

Your poor daughter sad

HotDAMNlifeisgood Mon 21-Jan-13 23:46:06

What is the point of him? He's nothing but a drain on you. Whether you cook for him or don't cook for him, he sucks your time, your joy, your self-respect...

Why stay with him? Why? Do you really feel you deserve no better than this punishing lifestyle, where every day the food you cook is thrown out in front of you as worthless? Where you are the sole drudge for ALL the mess and housework for all 3 of you? Where you feel the need to get away from him just for the weekend?

There is a better life out there for you. I hope you take steps to grab it soon.

ladyWordy Tue 22-Jan-13 00:17:18

I can see you're the determined type, gail, but this is working against you and especially against your daughter.

I had a friend who stayed stuck in an EA relationship, partly because she absolutely refused to give in - and also felt she had to stay put because 'she'd made her bed....'. etc. It wasn't the only reason she stayed too long, but her admirable quality of determination did much more harm than good in that relationship.

One thing though: she was very determined to find a new and better partner after he left. And she did!

You could do this too. And even if you didn't want a new partner, it's clear that your workload would be instantly lighter, as would your spirits: your daughter would be safer and happier too.

What do you think. Could you use your determination to start building a new life tomorrow? Think: what if he left of his own accord, tomorrow, to be with a star struck lover back in his 200 miles + distant home town (we wish).

What would you do first? (Again... You don't have to answer).

Bogeyface Tue 22-Jan-13 00:30:25

You say you may be a bit obsessive. Obsessive is walking in to your home after giving birth, running a finger along the skirting boards and then getting the bleach out. You had to gut the place because he had done NOTHING. That is not obsessive, that is selfish and lazy on his part.

I am sorry for what I said earlier, or rather I am sorry for the way I said it. It just seemed that you were making excuses for him and that isnt right. You shouldnt have to do what you are doing just because he cant be arsed.

He promises he will make more effort with your baby, but you know he isnt going to, dont you?

I think that you have come to the point where you have to decide whether you are going to be a mother to 2 children, or a single parent to one.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 22-Jan-13 00:31:57

He doesn't sound much of a catch, I'm sorry. I hope he's kind, and unselfish. We all have off days and yes he goes to work and does his bit for family income but come on OP.

I've kissed a couple of frogs, who hasn't. Did you pursue him, mistaking his inability to communicate as some charismatic, noble sensitivity? (been there). Did his good looks and boyish grin mask a yawning deficiency in maturity and self reliance? (got the T shirt). I'm not pretending to have all the answers but I think you need to ask yourself some questions.

This odd pairing I could understand at the outset of a partnership but after so long putting up with this, it's not a marriage of equals. I once read, babies aren't glue for wonky relationships, they're hand grenades.

It's short-changing yourself and worse, setting up DD to think this is how adults are, it must be because Mummy and Daddy live like this. You're her role models, this will be a template for her future relationships: she'll take this all in.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 22-Jan-13 00:33:32

I come from a family that will not tolerate marriage breakdown

What? You are an adult - you can decide what your own beliefs/morals/standards are.

Do your family think you should stay despite the abuse?

Fucking hell, wise up love. He's adding nothing to your life and syphoning all the life and energy out of you. You cannot let your DD grown up in this environment and he will not change he doesn't have any incentive to, whatsoever.

deleted203 Tue 22-Jan-13 00:37:18

Just don't cook for him. I'd tell him 'you don't like my cooking? Then cook your own'. And that would be the end of the conversation. Why are you bothering? I'm buggered if I'd have spent 4 YEARS watching someone push food round their plate and pull faces at me.

Just caught up with this thread. It has made me very depressed.

OcotoAlert Tue 22-Jan-13 00:50:03

You live your life as a single parent already.
Why would you keep this useless lump in your life? Why have the burden of his clothes, mess, food to deal with?
Separate. Teach your daughter that she is worth more that being someone's slave. That a loving relationship involves respect, division of labour and shared joys.
Access can be on whatever terms work best - from the sounds of it, he may not be all that fussed about contact times. His loss - truly.

You are a competent, confident woman and mother. Please stop and consider your options here.

OcotoAlert Tue 22-Jan-13 00:51:15

tallwiv appears to have put it more succinctly that I grin

Bogeyface Tue 22-Jan-13 00:51:27

I come from a family that will not tolerate marriage breakdown

Or from a family where women are expected to put up with whatever happens, being grateful for having a husband, and men can do whatever the hell they like?

Did your parents have a genuinely happy marriage or (think about this before answering) do you feel that your mum sacrificed herself at the altar of marriage and your father? Or your grandparents, were they like that?

300 years ago single or married women were not allowed any rights. Their property became their husbands on marriage and the only law that protected them was that they should not be beaten during pregnancy, because it might harm the baby. Widows were the only women with any right over property and were often tricked into marriage as a result. They couldnt vote, if seperated or divorced weren't allowed to keep their children (as they were possessions too), couldnt make any decision without the agreement of a father, brother or husband. Things changed. If women hadnt stood up for themselves and said "HANG ON!!!!!! This is wrong!" then nothing would have changed. Nothing will change in your family unless someone (you?) stands up and says that this is wrong.

fuzzywuzzy Tue 22-Jan-13 00:57:28

If you LTB he won't get the baby every weekend, it starts with every other weekend and the way he is it would be for a couple of hours under supervised conditions, also he'd have to want it. Do you think this man you describe would push for contact with your child?

I'd honestly stop cooking for him and doing his things eg ironing, laundry, shopping, he can do the crisp run every day. Why let it bother you? Also stop covering for your H in front of friends & family.

I have a non existent tolerance level for men who compete with their children, ex used to do that, he'd eat my girls food, suddenly need new clothes or medical attention if they did etc etc. He's an ex.

expatinscotland Tue 22-Jan-13 01:27:32

Save your breath, people, she's going to 'try to work on him.'

She's not going anywhere.

Best is maybe one of the threads for those in EA relationships.

Poor baby.

Gennz Tue 22-Jan-13 02:30:46

Gail I came from a family that didn’t “tolerate” marriage breakdowns, or living together before marriage (my parents are church-going Catholic and we were dragged along for all of my childhood/teen years – to this day I loathe Easter which saw us at church 4 days in a row). Well, my older sister got the full guilt trip about her boyfriend when she was about 25, she consequently pressured him into proposing even though they weren’t very well suited, they didn’t live together as my parents didn’t approve (even though they were in a different city 600km away) they got married, within the year he’d buggered off with a girl from work. My younger brother got married to his live-in girlfriend in a registry office without telling anyone. You guessed it, they are now divorced.

And you know what? My parents didn’t cut them off, or rail about the sanctity of marriage! They were gutted that they’d gone through so much heartache and they realised that their strongly held beliefs about marriage etc were not as sensible as they’d thought they were. (I, on the other hand, am still married to DH after 11 years together, only 4 of them married. Happily lived in sin for years prior to the wedding. Best not to listen to your parents when they’re wrong). Anyway – my point is that your parents might be more supportive of you than you think.

You sound about the same age as me (31), maybe younger? My DH is 35. When we met I was much like you, I was 20, half-way through uni, could barely boil an egg. He, on the other hand, was quite a good cook. Now we take turns cooking, and the other does the cleaning up (stacks dishwasher, cleans pots/benches etc).We split all domestic chores down the middle (we don’t have kids). If he suddenly went on strike like your H we’d be splitting up in no time. The non-interest your H shows your DD is especially sad – if DH was that indifferent to our dog I'd consider leaving him! (I’m obsessed with the dog).

Think about it – if you’re the same age as me you possibly have 2 more lifetimes of putting up with this awful selfish man. Get you and your DD out now and you could have a lovely life without him (and maybe with someone far nicer).

Pilgit Tue 22-Jan-13 07:51:43

Precisely what qualities does this 'man' have? He has no respect for you and no consideration - if he did you wouldn't have come home to a tip after giving birth. This is not how normal men behave - normal men would have taken care of themselves and would have kept the house in order. What does he do in the partnership to excite or please you? As it doesn't sound like much at the moment. We each, in our partnerships, make different choices about who does what however what should never be a choice is respect and consideration - that has to be there, if it is not the relationship is doomed. You will not change him. He wants someone to be his mother. Stop protecting him from people knowing about his treatment of you. Had people come to your house after DD was born and you had said it was because he did nothing whilst you were in hospital - anyone worth caring about wouldn't have judged you, they would have been appalled at him!

This is not your failure, it takes 2 to make the partnership work - this isn't a partnership and only you seem to be making an effort. The term 'flogging a dead horse' springs to mind....

Chandon Tue 22-Jan-13 08:03:54

If you are going to work on this, I hope it involves you STOPPING doing the cooking.

I would not cook for my DH if he did not appreciate it.

I am a SAHM, but I am at home for the children's sake, I often cook as I have more time than DH, and enjoy it. He used to be a picky eater, but his grattitude for anyone cooking food for him meant he taught himself to eat new things as he did not want to hurt my feelings. So now he eats fish, cheese and other things he previously would not have eaten.

He would NEVER leave food and stuff himself with crisps. That is like a slap n the face, can't he see that?

MardyArsedMidlander Tue 22-Jan-13 08:11:28

'I'm doggedly determined to not let him beat me'

HE WILL ALWAYS WIN. I speak from bitter bitter experience. You will end up utterly exhausted and ground down- and still not Good Enough for him. This is because you are sane and he is utterly 100% batshit crazy.
As my nan used to say 'lay down with dogs- get up with fleas' sad

Whocansay Tue 22-Jan-13 08:52:48

OP, when he's made his own dinner, you say he leaves the kitchen a tip. I suspect this is deliberate. You still have to run around after him. He enjoys wielding the power.

He sounds very unpleasant, ill mannered and rude to say the least. I would down all tools until he starts to help out. If you can't live in a tip, clean up, but don't cook for him or do his washing. Or make 'sarcastic' cups of tea! (He still gets the tea, as was pointed out above!). If funds allow, get a dishwasher! It seems that you haven't had much of a discussion with him about any of this, but you shouldn't have to live like this. I grew up in family where each spouse had to 'win'. It wasn't much fun for anybody. And no-one 'won' in the end.

And you shouldn't feel you have to 'win' in a loving marriage.

'I'm doggedly determined to not let him beat me'

If your idea of not letting him beat you is cooking food he throws away, making him "sarcastic" cups of tea and cleaning the house when you get out of hospital with your new baby, you don't stand a chance. Besides, what is "winning"? What is the prize, exactly? Him? Booby prize, maybe!

DeltaUniformDeltaEcho Tue 22-Jan-13 09:34:29

You say you come from a family that will not tolerate marriage breakdown.

Your DD will say the same

She will see that living in a unhappy house with an EA partner is better then breaking up a marriage regardless of how 'Strong' you are.

Moving on, walking away and demanding more for your life is strong.

OxfordBags Tue 22-Jan-13 09:35:42

Making him a sarcastic cup of tea is still pandering to him, still seeing to his whims when he is perfctly able to get his own drinks. It being done sarcastically doesn't matter a jot, it doesn't mean you've created some equality or gained some ground. Even if he knows you're giving it to him with an agenda, he's still getting exactly what he wants. It's not like it's hard for him to ignore your feelings, isit?!

Not only will all this teach your DD she should be treated like a doormat and a skivvy, it's teaching her that theonly way to cope is futile passive-aggressiveness.

NettleTea Tue 22-Jan-13 09:43:59

you havent answered about what he was like before you married. was he a textbook romantic?
I am usually one of the first to say LTB, but something about this makes me think that those who suggested ASD may be onto something.
Its the obsession with food, going well beyond the home. Its the fact that he doesnt seem to actually have a go or anything about the food, just doesnt eat it. and the mess. and the apparant disinterest in the child and lack of sex....
Unfortunately ASD and horribly abusive seem to look very very similar from the outside. But ASD can change things, as those who have said they have it can testify. but it needs approaching in the same way. Its certainly not an easy process though, especially if he doesnt want to accept the diagnosis or acknowledge that he would need to learn to adapt. You need to find out if he is intending to be so hurtful with his actions, or if he simply doesnt care. That would give you your answer.
But, on the other hand, he may be just as abusive as others have said.

NettleTea Tue 22-Jan-13 09:47:24

and to add that IF he has ASD you can make as many sarcastic cups of tea as you like, it wont mean anything to him at all.

mcmooncup Tue 22-Jan-13 09:54:22

Blimey OP what a seriously shit life you are leading.

It's weird when you are in a relationship like this that you must save it at all costs and facing up to the reality that there is nothing to save is very painful. There is nothing "to work on". This is not a mutual relationship, it is a master / slave relationship. This is not a respectful relationship but one filled with contempt and resentment.

If a friend came round for dinner and just got up and put the dinner in the bin without a word, what would you say?

If a friend said they would 'babysit' and then just sat of their arse not even talking to your baby, leaving them in their rocky chair, how would you feel?

If a friend stayed over and left all their dirty clothes and wet towels all over the room, what would you think?

Would these people still be your friend? Would you "work at it" saying that it's OK to have a parent/child type relationship with these adult friends?

You are actually being a TOTAL DOORMAT. You are being WALKED ALL OVER.

Grow a pair quick before your life is over and you have spent it serving an ungrateful miserable twat.

CocktailQueen Tue 22-Jan-13 10:45:14

You said: 'When I say he does nothing, I mean nothing. He's never bathed the baby, fed her. He's taken her for a walk maybe twice, will change a nappy if I ask him directly, which I very rarely do. He's not interested in her. ... he thinks an infant's food should be rationed and they should be left to cry - would you let him babysit?

Didn't you TALk about aspects of having a child before you got pg? Didn't you talk about what you each expected and what it would involve and all the rest of it? Why haven't you tackled any of this crap behaviour before? You're just being a complete mug and letting him walk all over you, enabling his behaviour. It is NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOUR. Any of it. ANY. I'd ask him to leave. what does he bring to you or your baby? What? Is there anything positive at all?? He's lazy,selfish, non-loving, cold, abusive, no social skills, a crap father, doesn't respect you - sorry OP. I am furious on your behalf that he could be such a twat and you're still not thinking about leaving him.

Lueji Tue 22-Jan-13 10:52:40

I worry about the sarcasm you use.

As other said, it's still pandering to him, and sarcasm isn't healthy in any relationship.

Simply stop doing things for him and tell him what you need to tell in plain and direct terms.

FWIW, my parents are also very traditional and not keen on marriage breakups. But they fully backed me when I decided to leave ex.
They might surprise you if they know what you have to deal with.

dequoisagitil Tue 22-Jan-13 11:02:07

What a joyous upbringing your dd will have with a passive-aggressive, sarcastic tea-maker who does everything around the house for a mother and a lazy, entitled, rude fuckwit of a father.

AnyFucker Tue 22-Jan-13 11:15:47

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Branleuse Tue 22-Jan-13 11:18:52

Gail, Ive only read up to page 3, but honestly, you dont deserve to live like that. Thats no partner. Hes not enriching anything in your life. Ignore your parents, ignore his parents, and realise that he wont change. We do not have to live miserable in unhappy abusive marriages anymore. YOU dont have to.

Abitwobblynow Tue 22-Jan-13 11:41:52

OP I PROMISE YOU this was one of the red flags in our fantastically successfull confused marriage.

Me making an effort and pouring time and love into a meal, only for him to say 'its too hot/late to eat/etc etc'. He NEVER said 'can you cook lighter things/I would so appreciate soup' or any hint of what could be done.

I eventually stopped cooking for him and that was resented too.

I still don't understand what it was all about or why.

Why don't you tackle this the opposite way round - your "D"H leaves the kitchen as a tip when he cooks in the hope it'll put you off asking him again. You either wash up or ignore the pans.


Ignore them. Tell him that he has to cook every Friday night, or whatever night works for you, then buy a week's worth of ready meals for you and baby and defrost food for yourself, so you don't have to do his washing up to get a clean saucepan. You can take this as peevish as you like - but frozen plain food that he might also like or go for Jamaican chicken curry etc that he wouldn't spit on, so he'll have to make his own meals. Until he washes up, there aren't any pans for you to cook other food for your family.

I generally wouldn't say LTB, and not over his odd eating habits, but I lived as a child with a step father who treated my sister and I like shit. I couldn't leave your baby girl in your house with your husband; the effect on her self esteem of a man who feels that she's a burden, or competition, or spoilt, or costing too much money will be horrendous. My sister and I are still picking up the pieces in our mid-thirties. Will you have an answer to "why do I need to eat my dinner when daddy doesn't?"

ThreeTomatoes Tue 22-Jan-13 12:20:52

WTF is a sarcastic cup of tea? Baffled.

Helltotheno Tue 22-Jan-13 13:03:45

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

gail734 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:25:56

"Why do I need to eat my dinner when daddy doesn't?"

Hmm... good point, FireOverBabylon

LOOK, the rest of you... I'm halfway through a year's worth of mat leave, so I'm basically a sahm. I do not expect my husband to come home from a stressful job at 7pm and do half of the housework. Do other sahm's? At the moment, we have an old fashioned marriage - he goes out to work, I stay home and work. What bothers me is the thrown-away dinners and the lack of interest in the baby. I'm going to try to get him more involved in the cooking. I think if he has more say in what he's eating, he might like it better. He's never known a baby before. Neither of us knew how he was going to react to her. I think she's a gorgeous angel from heaven, the best thing ever. He doesn't find her very interesting. He picks her up, she barfs on him... he puts her down. He's not a natural and he's not prepared to pretend that he's enthralled. I think that as she becomes more communicative, he'll become more interested in her.
I may get flamed for this but, I feel sorry for him. He's a product of a ridiculously indulged childhood which didn't leave him with any adult skills. He lost his job shortly after we married and we had to move 200 miles to a new city to find him work. I got a new job, leaving one that I loved. I'm an outgoing, positive, chatty person. I can make friends anywhere and I've built a little social life for myself, now with new mummies too. He's quiet, shy, a bit weird. His friends are people he went to primary school with and they're far away now. He obviously wasn't like this when I met him. I mean he's always been quiet - I attract people like that - but he dislikes the new job and I think he's a bit depressed. I'm encouraging him to leave it, but he's too scared. I might not stay with him for ever, but I'm not going to let anyone say I didn't try hard enough to make it work.

Helltotheno Tue 22-Jan-13 13:30:45

You're not trying hard though. You might think you are but all you're doing is entrenching the really bad attitudes he's picked up throughout his life and enabling his unwillingness to change.

If you were really trying, you'd leave him to do everything that pertains to him: cooking for himself, clothes, tidying etc.

I still think you're encouraging a really damaging and unhealthy environment for your DD.

Tough love OP, tough love.

gail734 Tue 22-Jan-13 13:32:47

OMG - I am not a troll! My mother brought me up with a slight fear of being "left on the shelf", ok? When I was dumped in my late twenties I had a bit of a shelf-related panic and grabbed the next available groom and marched him down the aisle. It was a mistake. I will tell my dd that she can "live in sin" with half the town if she likes. I will let her know it's ok to never get married She will not care if the neighbours think she "can't get a man".

Helltotheno Tue 22-Jan-13 13:37:09

It was a mistake.

Glad you see that at least smile
Why not try the amicable co-parenting living apart thing? Much better scenario than what you have at the moment.

I suppose though you'll be thinking about DC2 soon?

TisILeclerc Tue 22-Jan-13 13:37:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mcmooncup Tue 22-Jan-13 13:37:52

"I may get flamed for this but, I feel sorry for him"

I love it when posters write the "I may get flamed" thing.

Why would you think you would get flamed for this?

Is this because it is ludicrous? Pathetic at best, co-dependent at worst.

I don't understand why people post on here and then ignore all the advice.

You are wasting your time, you will not change him. But good luck trying. And wasting your life in the meantime.

Helltotheno Tue 22-Jan-13 13:37:53

Oh and .. sorry for calling you a troll OP (it was starting to become unbelievable you see smile )

mcmooncup Tue 22-Jan-13 13:39:00

"I suppose though you'll be thinking about DC2 soon? "

ABSOLUTELY - that is in 'the script' too.

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

I am actually wondering if on some level within you, you saw this man as a project or perhaps someone to rescue and or save. You felt and still feel on some level sorry for him. Your love and caring for him was going to change him into a better person after his dysfunctional childhood. Wrong on all counts there. Also I would state that not all people by any means who have had crap childhoods do as your H does now; this is also about power and control.

Given too a straight choice between you and his mother, he would choose his mother. She has played a huge role in shaping your H into the person he now is.

You have stated yourself that you're a martyr and that you've enabled him. You continue to do so.

You want this to work but what is he doing exactly?. How is he trying to make this work?. He is doing nothing, you're doing all the donkey work here. You cannot keep a faltering marriage going on its own.

He has no respect for you and by turn your DD whatsoever.

Sticking this out for whatever reasons you give or choose to believe in will just teach your DD that it is okay to be treated in such a manner.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 22-Jan-13 13:46:11

Glad you came back to the thread OP, posters get frustrated when they worry you are digging yourself in a bigger hole, they are perplexed (putting it mildly) as to why a bright articulate person is apparently willing to tolerate so little input from your OH. I am a SAHM myself so no problems on that score for me but a 33 year old man, mummy's boy or not while you are on maternity leave it is not a holiday for you, it should not give him licence to come home and do nothing. Bluntly sounds as if when you are back working, he won't metamorphisize into Mr Helpful-Share-The-Domestic-Chores kind of guy. Lots of parents don't especially find tiny babies or little children that fascinating but they help out with parenting because that's what parents do.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Tue 22-Jan-13 13:54:35

I knew there would be some other form of bullying and instilling bad attitudes in your background. You were persuaded that a woman is a failure without a man, and that any man is better than none. THIS IS A LIE. Women are actually more likely to be happy when they are single and the insistence that women need a heterosexual couple relationship is a deliberate lie, because the need that is met by marriage is men's need to have a servant to look after them domestically and be seuxally available to them.

As others have said, if you persist in pandering to this inadequate man, you will raise a DD who will also see no alternative but to accept a man's ownership and mistreatment of her. Is that really what you want for yourself and for her?

JustFabulous Tue 22-Jan-13 14:04:56

I feel sorry for you, OP but much sorrier for your poor baby.

I do 99% of the cooking in the house. I enjoy it and when I don't want too do it DH will always do it. Often asking me what to make the kids as he knows I meal plan and he wouldn't want to mess that up. I used to cook twice a night as the children needed feeding earlier than DH got home. DH and I have been together for 17 years and living together for about 15. I can count on one hand the amount of times I have made something - usually a new recipe - that DH hasn't liked. He always tries it but has then said I am not keen, sorry and then sorts himself out a sandwich or toast.

You are fighting a battle you can never ever win.

Helltotheno Tue 22-Jan-13 14:05:48

I'll raise a wine to that Solid....

Plus there are other nice people out there who might have a use other than sperm donation and might even be nice people to boot.
Give it go OP smile

fuzzpig Tue 22-Jan-13 14:09:17

I am astounded you put up with this.

You talk about him with contempt (spoilt prince etc) - utterly deserved of course - and yet you still say you can change him? You can't.

I haven't read a single positive thing about him yet?!

BTW although you may tell your DD she doesn't need to settle for this shit, she still will, if she sees you doing it.

Lueji Tue 22-Jan-13 14:09:45

Women are actually more likely to be happy when they are single

And live longer. grin

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 22-Jan-13 14:12:14

Nobody is saying they all got everything right first time, it's not a contest you get points for. When you were expecting DD, did anyone happen to say when talking about birth plans or pain relief, "You know gail, they don't hand out medals for suffering in silence or enduring pain off the scale?" Well same applies here.

This is your life, no-one else's. Don't battle on because of loss of face, or any clever dick in the background saying, "Well what else did we expect, what a quitter, never walked out in my day". I don't know your cultural heritage or family background but you needn't become a pariah. Living apart from your H doesn't mean he won't be able to access your DD to stay in contact. As she grows up she can still be part of his life. People who know you and care about you won't think less of you.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 22-Jan-13 14:37:32

feeling sorry for him is NOT a good basis for a relationship.

I would re-word your description of the two of you as: he's unskilled and entitled, and you are warm, hard-working and overly self-sacrficing.

You deserve better, gail. You quit a job you loved for this?

Stop worrying so much about his childhood and his depression, and spend a little more time thinking about your wants and needs, your happiness.

his issues = his business to sort out for himself, like a grown man.
your happiness = yours to safeguard, because lord knows no-one else in your marriage is worried about your happiness at the moment. Start giving it some attention, you deserve it.

Abitwobblynow Tue 22-Jan-13 14:52:43

MN, you really shouldn't tell people what to do, and then get angry with them if they don't do it. Can't you see that is coercive and abusive in itself?

We are supposed to be here for women who are struggling with their dilemmas, not add to their sh*t or further undermine their self-esteem.

If changing deep-seated beliefs and attitudes and coping tactics were that easy, we would all change at will. This stuff (learning new ways of thinking, letting go of hope and denial) takes TIME. Women manage with the skills they have at that time. They ARE juggling things and they ARE processing stuff.

OP has invested in this twunt. He doesn't beat her or brand her, it is HARD to face up to low level abuse and admit it for what it is. It is hard for her to let go of her hope that he will change, and it is hard for her to let go of years of investment.

She needs to talk and ruminate and talk and ruminate some more. Shutting her down with sarcasm and rage because she isn't INSTANTLY L-ingTB, is just more devalueing and rendering her invisible.

<Wobbly gets off soapbox>

Lueji Tue 22-Jan-13 15:26:08

Wobbly, who's MN?

Is that the whole of MumsNet???? hmm

Whocansay Tue 22-Jan-13 15:38:56

OP, its OK to make a mistake. You don't have to live with it if things aren't working though. Marriage is supposed to be something done by TWO people, not just by one part of a couple. My fella works very hard, but when he comes home he works just as hard as me. Not because I make him at least not always, but because he wants to. He wants to come home and see the children and help with the bedtime routine. This is what he signed up for when we decided to have children. I have no idea why you're making excuses for your 'd'h. From what you've said he's a bad husband and a bad father.

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Tue 22-Jan-13 16:45:19

If you wont listen to Glennz - you wont listen to anyone.

Good luck - you're going to need it sad

However, I have to say one last thing... if you had thought this was an issue about 'picky eating' surely you would have posted in Chat, you posted in Relationships - you might want to think about that.

mcmooncup Tue 22-Jan-13 17:38:33

Yes but Wobbly, you are enabling her to stay. Don't know which is worse.

KateSMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 22-Jan-13 17:40:31

Hi everyone,

Could we please remind you all that troll hunting, no matter how thinly veiled, is still against our talk guidelines.

TisILeclerc Tue 22-Jan-13 17:41:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gennz Tue 22-Jan-13 20:12:57

Wow gail I think you need counselling, you strike me as a classic boiled frog.

I can perfectly well understand you doing more domestic work if your husband is working FT (though having discussed this with my DH I’ve been adamant that if I take a break from my well paid, interesting job to look after OUR (as yet non-existent) baby, I’d expect him home at 6 and bathing said child so I can have a glass of wine or go for a walk, not putting his feet up with a beer and chucking any dinner I make in the bin) – however, you as a SAHM doing all the domestic chores does not excuse your husband’s selfish and frankly bizarre behaviour.

Letting the house get into a tip when your wife is in hospital with your newborn child and then – WORSE – letting her “roll her sleeves up” and clean up after you? WTAF? That speaks to me of someone who is so grossly self centred that there is no room to care about anyone else. Plus the way he interacts with your baby sounds absolutely chilling. You can’t fix him.

Snazzynewyear Tue 22-Jan-13 20:35:54

Gail, no-one could say you hadn't tried. They really couldn't.

I can see you are not ready to take drastic action yet and I have some sympathy with ABitWobblyNow 's post. I think sometimes folks here forget that they are typing 'just leave him!' to someone who is only just becoming really aware of the implications of their situation, and that immediate marital break-up is just not realistic.

You've posted about 'getting him more involved with the cooking'. Not sure what you have in mind but I have two suggestions. One is to tell him you will cook him what he wants but he has to name specifically what he wants. None of this 'something bland' that you can then get 'wrong'; he has to say 'macaroni cheese with no salt/pepper and no cream' or whatever it might be. If he agrees, you do it and he still doesn't like/eat the food, then you've got a deeper problem: he just wants to find fault.

Second suggestion: say (with all the calm you can muster) that you've realised you take too big a role in telling him what to do with food, and you're not going to anymore. If he wants to eat crisps every night, he can. But he needs to take responsibility for cooking and buying his own food. So if that means he does a crisp run to the shops every night, so be it. It's wasting his time rather than yours which I'd see as an improvement. Again, if he starts to say that this isn't what he wants, again you have your indicator that actually, for him, this is all about disagreeing with you, whatever it is you have to say.

foreverondiet Tue 22-Jan-13 23:48:55

Stop cooking for him. Tell him you can't bear the waste so he can cook for himself and he can add the food he wants to the shopping list (or even better to online shopping order)....

Bogeyface Wed 23-Jan-13 00:35:05

Forever its the waste that would piss me off most. Presumably the OP shops for 2 but 1 of them chucks their food in the bin. There is no justification for that! Maybe she should tell him that she has added up his waste and it is 50% of their childcare bill when she goes back to work so she will be keeping his half of the shopping money to pay the nursery!

Abitwobblynow Wed 23-Jan-13 06:00:30

Wobbly, who's MN?

Is that the whole of MumsNet???? - Let's not parse, Leuji. My point is valid, and remains.

Lueji Wed 23-Jan-13 07:13:10

No it isn't, wobbly.

I haven't seen anyone angry here because gail hasn't left this man the minute she got the LTB replies. (I don't know about AF because the post is hidden)
We all know these things need to be processed properly, chances given, plans made.

However, patting on the back and simply offering a shoulder to cry on does nothing for gail and women living in these situations.

In this thread nobody is pushing for leaving now.
If anything, to stop pandering to this man and doing everything for him.

But, yes sometimes people need to be told that it's ok to leave, and the only sane option.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Wed 23-Jan-13 07:18:24

Also: pot, kettle, wobbly. Your message is also "coercively" telling people what to do. Let others say what they will; you can't stop them anyway. If it's any reassurance, as you and I and anyone who has emerged from denial knows: an OP can only take in whatever she is prepared to take in, so it doesn't matter who shouts "LTB!" and who says "there there, poor love". The OP will take from all of those messages only so much as she is able to take in.

Abitwobblynow Wed 23-Jan-13 08:08:56

OK Hotdamn, if that makes you feel better, as long as you acknowledge the point that she can only take in what she can take in at that time.

So lets make that arena a safe one. The point I am making is: to tell someone what to do, to then get angry when they do not instantly do what you know is what is good for them, is to be part of the same abusive dynamic that they are in.

And am I saying we must go 'there there, poor love'? And does saying that, ensure women stay stuck? I don't think it does.

What we really should be saying is 'how are you? What do you feel/want?'. Give OP the space to find her voice. Gently point out that sarcastic cups of tea is still the same dance. Somebody pointed out fantastically that he doesn't care how the cup of tea is delivered - it got delivered so he gets his own way without caring about her - again.

In the field I am in we are warned continually not to get frustrated or overinvolved with people who take 2 steps back/get back into the cycle that abuses them.

Lundy Bancroft and Judith Herman also make this point. This is what abusers do: pressure her severely. Talks down to her. Thinks he knows better than her what is good for her. Dominates conversations. Believes he has the right to control her life. Thinks FOR her.

So we should not mirror these things. The only question we really should focus on is 'what do YOU want to do?' In the next 10 minutes, the next day, the next week, the rest of her life.

Abitwobblynow Wed 23-Jan-13 08:25:18

Lueji, - 'you should, I would, do this, why haven't you,' - is pressure.

Taking the pressure off is NOT enabling. It is giving her the space to think for herself, and find her own voice.

It is actually giving her the respect that the man never will.

When you have poured so much effort into a situation that does't respond, it is HARD to walk away from all that investment. It's hard.
An emotionally abusive man is like one of those Las Vegas slot machines. They intermittently give back a few quarters to get the hope back up again. Abusive and selfish men are very good at knowing they have crossed the line and offering up a little bit of hope/giving a bit, to get the invested woman hooked back in again.

And it is very frustrating to hear. But not as painful as the neglected uncared for person, suffers.

mcmooncup Wed 23-Jan-13 09:09:58

Hmmmm there is a difference in taking the pressure off and saying "oh I understand how hard it is, not many people do leave" bla bla.

I completely agree with what you are saying but your posts come across a little "it's really hard so we understand if you stay".

I don't think that IS the right approach. Just because something is hard doesn't mean you don't do it. Every woman should be encouraged to leave wankers like this. And we should absolutely point out, as SGB says, the Big Lie that is fed to women.
I know OP won't do it today, but MN certainly fast forwards this process for many women and that is just brilliant as far as I'm concerned. But you've got to hear how totally outraged people are at the behaviour you are putting up with as the very first step (this thread).

stargirl1701 Wed 23-Jan-13 09:11:32

Hi Gail. I'm on mat leave with a 4 month old baby. I am not, though, a SAHM. I'm on leave from my job to care for my baby. For me, this means that the arrangements that were in place when DH and I both worked full time are still valid.

We share the cooking. I do Mon-Thurs and DH does Fri-Sun. My DH was an inexperienced eater when I met him, like yours, and, again, it was his mother that had enabled that. He was willing to try all the meals I cooked and now has adopted some as his own. We have a cleaner as neither of us enjoy cleaning. I probably put on more loads of laundry than him but he normally hangs them up to dry. He normally stacks the dishwasher and I normally empty it. He shares care of our dd completely. Baths, feeds, nappies, trying to settle her, walking her in the pram/sling. The only area I feel is left to me is presents/cards. The issue is, other than me, he just doesn't care about buying & sending cards and gifts.

My MIL is horrified at our marriage. She thinks I should 'make him' do things or do them myself, e.g. Ironing shirts. I don't iron tbh and DH doesn't care if his shirts are ironed. In my mind that's up to him. If he wants them ironed then he'd do it. She cannot wrap her head round this.

At the core, I think this is about seeing a DH as an adult. My MIL sees her DH and her son as incapable so she does everything. I see my DH as an adult able to make his own choices. Her sense of worth is bound up in how things look to the outside world - ironed shirts, etc. my sense of worth is bound up in feeling like I am part of a special team. I don't care about appearances. I care about how I feel at the end of a day. A burden shared is a burden halved.

I think you are lonely OP. You wouldn't be more lonely on your own. In fact, I think you would be free.

akaemmafrost Wed 23-Jan-13 10:48:50

I think it sounds like he has ASD. I have a child with ASD, very high functioning and I believe his Dad does too. He was impossible to live with, not quite so bad with food but bad enough and I stopped cooking at all in the end. Never tidied etc.

I think he may have ASD because of these things you have said:-

Food issues
Difficulty with social interaction
No friends
Possible problems with practical planning.
Trouble at work because he goes slower than everyone else because he is checking and rechecking

People with ASD often have difficulties with practical planning. I tell ds to tidy his room and he can't, he just can't work out where to put things, in what order, what tidy means etc. I have to stay there and tell him what to do every step of the way. Or pile ALL the mess into one place then say "ok ds, now put these things in the right boxes and on the right shelves (all pre organised).

It doesn't mean you have to live with it I certainly couldn't, what you do patiently and with love for your child is often not doable for a fully grown adult. I had a nervous breakdown in the end but the constant "he's a selfish twat"! on this thread despite a few posters suggesting possible ASD is not particularly helpful I don't think.

Lueji Wed 23-Jan-13 12:00:27

you should,
I would,
why haven't you?

Is not pressure, FGS.

"Do this" is a bit, but that often is a way of giving advice.

Nobody is shouting at the OP, or telling her to whatever if she doesn't follow any advice.

Gail asked for advice. Many people put forward ways of dealing with this, and many said that it's not likely that he'll change and that Gail will be better off leaving him.

Please, wobbly, do let us know the correct way of giving such advice without putting too much pressure. Just make sure you also give that advice without putting too much pressure on us.

Gail, if you're sticking this out, a) get a cleaner and b) get him to acknowledge the damage he will do to his daughter's eating habits if she needs to eat food and he's not willing to try it before throwing it away.

It may be that he eats later than you and DD, for example, or makes his own meal, but he cannot be allowed to set this as an example for your daughter.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 23-Jan-13 17:16:09

The funny thing is, I'm not passive at all! I'm known as a bossy, opinionated person! In my own home though, I've given up.

I don't think people are steamrollering gail and if they were, she wouldn't have returned.

Plenty of posters have said in the past, I didn't like what you told me, but it made me think.

If you think someone crosses a line, press Report.

foreverondiet Wed 23-Jan-13 20:16:53

Mmm, yes the waste would drive me mad too. But I thought that if he prepared his own food, he'd only prepare food he wanted to eat so less waste.

I think OP a bit mad to keep on cooking for him for so long, don't get it...

I probably would speak to his mum and find out what he eats and then suggest a weekly rotation.

HansieMom Wed 23-Jan-13 20:59:59

I thought Aspergers too but did not want to say it. But Frost, with her ex and her DS with AS, knows how hard it is to live with.

ladyWordy Wed 23-Jan-13 22:06:18

I think this is likely, Hansie and akaemmafrost... however, he seems to have other problems too, and has no interest in changing. The latter seems to be the sticking point.
Gail, I can see you want to keep trying for the moment. Here if you need us. brew

PartTimeModel Thu 24-Jan-13 22:13:12

gail your H sounds completely and utterly joyless (in a nutshell).
I feel very badly for you and your DD - you both deserve so much better.
I hope you find a way out of this situation.

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