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Can I have honest opinions?

(86 Posts)
BeOrganised Sat 19-Jan-13 20:52:35

If your partner (albeit on/off) and father of your children said 'I feel like spitting in your face'. Would you be devastated? Or because he didn't actually do it, or say he will, it's not that much of a bad thing to say.

He has said worse to me, but this has really got to me. It's happened over half an hour ago and I'm still replaying the words and crying. Am I overreacting?

LesBOFerables Sat 19-Jan-13 20:54:39

No, you're not over-reacting. He doesn't sound like somebody who is making you happy, which is kind of the point of a partner, isn't it?

TallyGrenshall Sat 19-Jan-13 20:55:06

grin

It's a fucking disgusting thing to say and he would most definitely be 'off' from that point on

Kione Sat 19-Jan-13 20:55:32

that is horrible and disgusting and yes, I would be devastated! why did he say that? sorry for you x

TallyGrenshall Sat 19-Jan-13 20:55:39

Shit! That was supposed to be shock not grin

TurnipCake Sat 19-Jan-13 20:56:13

Oh that is an absolutely vile way to speak to someone.

You're not reacting enough, as in switch the on/off part of your relationship to 'off' for good.

We're here if you need to get it out.

Beamur Sat 19-Jan-13 20:56:24

It's a vile thing to say.

LesBOFerables Sat 19-Jan-13 20:59:00

Have a look at this, it's very wise.

Nanny0gg Sat 19-Jan-13 21:00:32

It's a revolting thing to say and I hate to think what he's said that's worse.
You're not over-reacting. What do you want to do?

izzyizin Sat 19-Jan-13 21:00:45

What took place immediately before he said it?

Did he say it as a statement of fact unrelated to any other conversation/verbal exchange?

badinage Sat 19-Jan-13 21:02:09

The relationship would be 'off' permanently if anyone said this to me.

cookielove Sat 19-Jan-13 21:02:11

I think we need more back round here, it does sound horrible though and would be upset if DH said something like to me!!

coffeeinbed Sat 19-Jan-13 21:04:21

He's said worse than that?
Blimey.
Don't even want to imagine what that might be.
And you have to ask?

BeOrganised Sat 19-Jan-13 21:04:50

We were arguing basically about his lack of drive to sort out his life. I said some horrible things about the way he was brought up (drugs given, father never worked, ect) which I shouldn't have I admit. But for him to say very calmly 'I feel like spitting in your face' was such a shock. It still is.

To be honest I feel trapped sometimes but it is that we are so bloody different it's hard. We literally have lead opposite lives and I think he is living on a totally different planet, but he thinks I'm living on a different planet.

Thank you for the offer of support if I want to get out, but not at the moment. Just had to get some opinions that it is a terrible thing to say even though he didn't do anything.

Mytimewillcomebutwhen Sat 19-Jan-13 21:06:13

Of course you aren't over reacting - and you do know that. I get the feeling you know quite a lot of things aren't right as well...

Sorry Organised...

If this isn't the worst thing he's said, and you're supposed to feel grateful cos he hasn't actually done anything - does that mean he threatens you a lot? Does he ever carry out his threats?

Stay safe Organised x don't let someone be this vile to you x

BeOrganised Sat 19-Jan-13 21:15:55

No no it's not like he threatens me on a daily basis or anything! He has a temper in wary of BUT I don't help things- he'll tell me to shut the fuck up for example and I will carry on just because I'm not going to listen to him and do as he says if he tells me like that. So I'm aware that I'm part of the problem.

He's told me a load of times how he would happily kill me if I ever cheated on him, but when I asked him to stop saying it (after I had heard this about 15 times in the space of about 10 months) he was surprised that it had upset me. He genuinely thought it was an acceptable thing to say.

Obviously he has got a lot of good points but I'm upset and hurt and I don't even want to think about them.

badinage Sat 19-Jan-13 21:31:50

Are you stark raving mad?

You should be getting the hell away from this man.

LesBOFerables Sat 19-Jan-13 22:01:00

Did you look at that link I posted?

BeOrganised Sat 19-Jan-13 22:07:03

It sounds worse than it is!

Yes I looked at the link, thank you for posting it. I'm going to be honest and say I can identify with a few points but it's nothing I can't handle, I wouldn't call it abusive! A lot of things we need to work on though.

kalidanger Sat 19-Jan-13 22:08:18

BeOrganised; for the avoidance of any doubt his behaviour is not normal

Fuck, that's a really vile thing he said to you OP. Get you and your children away from this awful man.

bestsonever Sat 19-Jan-13 22:13:37

Seems like you regularly 'work' at things, given that it's an "on/off relationship". How hard you are willing to try is up to you. Just be aware that you can't undo years of bad parenting for him.

kalidanger Sat 19-Jan-13 22:14:47

'It's nothing I can't handle', you say?

How did you handle it? Did you respond? Are you happy with your response? Do you feel your response adequately conveyed to him that it was unacceptable and that you are devastated? How did he respond to that? Is the situation ongoing? Or over? Until next time?

Did you handle it? How?

BeOrganised Sat 19-Jan-13 22:21:15

Yes I totally know his behaviour isn't normal. But it's hard to explain that to him when he thinks I'm the weird one. I also made the mistake of telling him I had had PND with my last dc, so he always thinks I'm annoyed at him because I'm depressed/need to see a doctor/have pmt/still have pregnancy hormones.

Well I haven't handled this situation at all yet! When he said that tears just sprang to my eyes and I locked myself in the bathroom and cried like a baby! He went out, then I came out. I imagine I won't see him until Monday.

So not really sure what to say. He is very good with words and manages to turn all situations around on me, so I'm not sure how to handle this situation!

TheFallenNinja Sat 19-Jan-13 22:27:52

What are you waiting for him to say before you send him packing?

I wouldn't say that to a dog.

TheSecondComing Sat 19-Jan-13 22:33:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

kalidanger Sat 19-Jan-13 22:37:08

I think you should handle this by formalising your 'off' status. He's horrible to you. And don't say he's a 'great dad' - great dads are t pigs to their DC's mothers. Sort out contact and money and be a happy lone patent without being treated like crap by him. Don't allow it, that's the only way to handle it.

Charliefox Sat 19-Jan-13 22:38:37

It'd be the last words he ever said to me. You've become immune to it all if you're saying things like, it sound worse than it is. It sounds horrendous and it IS horrendous.

BitBewildered Sat 19-Jan-13 22:44:48

What he said to you was disgusting, disrespectful, aggressive, hostile and offensive.

You have just said:

BUT I don't help things

&

I also made the mistake of telling him I had had PND with my last dc

which I find worrying.

No you're not over-reacting, he was being nasty to you.

soulresolution Sat 19-Jan-13 22:51:09

He has made you believe it's your fault because you won't 'shut the fuck up' when he tells you to? It's your fault you get upset about his abuse because you had pnd? You actually had to point out to him that it's not acceptable to threaten to kill someone if they want to leave you??

It definitely is abuse OP and I really feel for you. I think it's good that this latest vile thing he said has cut so deep and broken through the confusion he's created in your mind. Even better if he's gone 'til Monday - it will give you more time to wake up to the mess he's making of your life and work out how to get rid of him permanently.

kalidanger Sat 19-Jan-13 22:52:30

If he gave one shiny shit about you and your children he'd be concerned and helpful about your PND, not throw it in your face to make out you're mental.

badinage Sat 19-Jan-13 22:56:49

This is an absurd relationship.

He's told you 15 times that he will kill you if you step out of line, tells you to shut the fuck up during disagreements, tells you he would like to spit in your face and then despite being a father, pisses off for what you said could be 2 days after he'd made you cry.

You might think you're able to handle it, but if you're locking yourself in a bathroom and have to ask the internet whether you're over-reacting, you can't and more importantly, you shouldn't.

But whereas you have the luxury of choice in this, your poor kids who have to live with this brute, do not. FGS get him away from you and them.

Cherylkerl Sat 19-Jan-13 23:13:01

It's awful. Truly awful.

I know you aren't ready to hear it yet, but this is abuse and I'd say you're on the journey to discovering that. Takes a while to accept because they manage to convince you it's you. You shouldn't have to be strong enough to cope with this shit.

Lurk if you can bring yourself to and if you do recognise any other behaviour, mn is here.

Has anyone got the boiling water/frog analogy to hand?

beachyhead Sat 19-Jan-13 23:19:21

Just remember, most women don't have a man who says that they would spit in their face.... and when you give him up, you'll find a man who won't say he wants to spit in your face.

And you will be a lot happier......

BUT you need to move on from him, which I know is hard, but it will be worthwhile.

beachyhead Sat 19-Jan-13 23:20:59

Sorry, that wasn't supposed to read that you'll be happier when you find another man, just happier in general not to have someone saying they want to spit in your face, which frankly, no-one needs.

ladyWordy Sat 19-Jan-13 23:58:05

I wouldn't be devastated, I'd be livid. Of course it's a bad thing to say. Can you imagine saying it to him? What would he do? ( don't actually try it)..

BeOrganised, I know abuse is a hard word but you have just described abuse to us.

Saying he would happily kill you is not a joke. When he said that, you heard his true feelings. When he tells you he feels like <name of act of aggression> you have heard exactly what's in his mind.

He has a temper you're wary of. You feel trapped. He tells you you are mentally ill and need to see a doctor. He turns everything around to be your fault. You have also said what every abused woman says (to paraphrase): I do things too/I have my faults/ I do provoke him/I don't know when to shut up/I push him, etc.

It's abuse.

You can find extra support on this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1655328-Support-thread-for-those-in-Emotionally-abusive-relationships-15

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 10:07:50

Thanks for the replies, I know what he said just isn't normal. I would never even think about wanting to spit at anyone, even someone I hated. Ha of I ever said that to him all hell would have broken loose.

He surprisingly did come back. Tried to hug me but I just told him to just leave me be. Im wondering if he is going to recognise that what he said was so disgusting. But I think he is justifying it to himself. I was winding him up, and I did say his parents were crap (I stand by that).

The reason I say I recognise I play a part in his temper is just to show that I'm not like an innocent little angel who gets shouted at and abused! I do stand my ground and I do act like I'm not scared of him even though I have been. If he comes in my face I won't back down, I'll carry on until he just ends up leaving.

Needsomeperspective2 Sun 20-Jan-13 11:04:44

So when you argue he gets right up in your face, tell you to shutnthe fuck up or that he wants to spit at you. Where the hell are your children while this is happening? You say he's like he is due to poor parenting, do you not see you are repeating the cycle with your own children?? Do you want then to thnk it's normal for women to hide themselves in the bathroom until the abusive partner has left? Do you want to teach them it's acceptable to intimidate someone into backing down or crying? Seriously, I don't understand why you can't see history repeating itself, maybe not to the same degree (I'm hoping there is no drug taking involved) but just as damaging.

Everything you've said here sounds awful for you and your do and I really hope you can find the strength the get away from this man soon, for all your sakes.

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 12:04:52

My children do not witness any of this, they are in bed by 7. We don't swear or shout in front of them at all. I'm not that bad of a parent. I don't think history would repeat itself as neither one of us would give drugs and cigs to our children, send them out on drug runs or ignore them.

Fair enough they are not in the most stable family life, but they are well looked after, and lead a very comfortable happy life at the moment.

My issues are solely between me and him, not sure what will happen now though. grin(

soulresolution Sun 20-Jan-13 14:02:34

Actually it's the opposite problem BeOrganised, you know exactly what will happen now. He will quiet down for a few days while you decide that it really was mostly your fault for winding him up and when he realises there aren't going to be any consequences he will start up again and probably come out with something even worse, make it even more obvious that he despises you and sees you as a verbal punchbag.

As long as he can carry on blaming you he will never have to face the real truth about himself and the abuse he is inflicting on you.

That means yet more terrible remarks that eat away at your self-respect and ability to trust men. Children grow up fast and they are very perceptive. They won't be off to bed and sleeping, they will be scared and disturbed by what happens in their home, him swearing and sneering in your face, you sobbing yet still making excuses for him.

Alternatively you can do the brave thing and end the relationship. You might find someone kind and decent or you might end up on your own for some time but either way you will be happier, free of fear and your children won't be messed up like him.

Needsomeperspective2 Sun 20-Jan-13 14:03:59

If you've managed to shield them up until, great, but don't underestimate the power of growing up in a toxic atmosphere. You said earlier he'd stormed off and wouldn't be black for a day or 2, it's not usual for children to witness one of their parents going AWOL although I know he's back now.

I completely believe you want to do what's best for them and I am sure you would never give them cigs and drugs etc but can you be 100% sure he wouldn't? Just please think about what they are learning about how adults interact with each other, how they are allowed to get away with behaving. And at the end of it all, think about your own happiness and wellbeing too x

pollyblue Sun 20-Jan-13 15:20:35

It sounds like just part of a fairly regular cycle of crap behaviour towards you. If you genuinely feel that the relationship is worth salvaging (or if not the relationship, then your self esteem), that there is fault on both sides and he has been negatively effected by his upbringing, then you should think seriously about taking practical steps to resolve this ie couples counselling.

BTH do not underestimate how much your dcs will pick up on, even if you think they are safely tucked up and out of the way.

kalidanger Sun 20-Jan-13 15:26:39

If he comes in my face I won't back down, I'll carry on until he just ends up leaving.

That sounds like fun!

So you mean handle as in 'I can handle myself in a fight', not 'I can manage myself and my DCs safety and happiness, right?

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 20:44:23

No he would never give the kids anything! he knows that the way he was brought up was not right.

The last post I don't really get, is it sarcasm? I've never been in a fight, and no it's not fun.. Unfortunately it's my life and that's what it is.

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 20:47:37

But thank you all for the supportive messages and advice, I've just been reading back. We've been talking about counselling forever but i don't think it will happen. Oh and just to answer the qs about him not coming back, the kids won't be affected really because over the years this is only the second time we have lived together- and it's been less than 2 weeks! Oh dear.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 20-Jan-13 21:02:30

He thinks you are the weird one but he is wrong. And you truly need to get that into your head before you start to believe it too.

And you won't be able to explain anything to him. For him to talk to you like that shows you have nothing to say that he would listen to.

JamieandtheMagicTorch Sun 20-Jan-13 21:03:53

Actually, scrap that, you already belive it

foslady Sun 20-Jan-13 21:09:25

Despite what you say your children WILL be picking up on this.

Step out of this and imagine you are reading someone else's post. You know what you should do. He has worn you down into believing this behaviour is acceptable.

No it isn't. Ever. Nothing justifies it.

AnyFucker Sun 20-Jan-13 21:12:21

You said "I would like to spit in your face" is not the worst thing he has ever said to you

God help you

better still, help yourself and your kids and end this abusive relationship...your kids are being taught very damaging lessons

do not say "he is a good dad really" because we will not believe you

AnyFucker Sun 20-Jan-13 21:13:52

don't do joint counsellig with an abuser

seek it for yourself, to help you learn that being without a man like this is better than subjecting your children to him

soulresolution Sun 20-Jan-13 21:26:11

How long have you known him op? Has he had other relationships and do you know how he behaved with those other women?

SparkyDudess Sun 20-Jan-13 21:26:54

This: 'I do stand my ground and I do act like I'm not scared of him even though I have been. If he comes in my face I won't back down, I'll carry on until he just ends up leaving'

I stand my ground with my DH and I don't have to act like I'm not scared - because I'm not. We argue, we sort it out without threats or name calling - you so obviously think that the dynamic between you is normal, and it's anything but.

You need to see that you and your children would be better without your partner - being single would be infinitely better than what you have now.

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 21:28:27

Why can't he be a good dad? Whilst I've been back at work he has actually been taking care of them and so far doing a better job than me! As in he is very laid back and doesn't stress as much as me. Yes he says some terrible things to me, but why does this mean he is a bad dad?

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 21:29:18

I have known him for 10 years.

SparkyDudess Sun 20-Jan-13 21:31:23

Because you can tell yourself whatever you like, but your children know he's evil to you - by definition, a bad dad.

AnyFucker Sun 20-Jan-13 21:33:41

A man that threatens to spit in a woman's face (and worse...tell us what "worse" is...) is not a "good dad"

JustFabulous Sun 20-Jan-13 21:37:52

If my DH said that to me I would faint in shock and then when I came round I would kick him out.

soulresolution Sun 20-Jan-13 21:38:14

10 years. In all that time he hasn't accepted that he's got a serious problem and needs psychiatric help?

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 21:39:44

But I wouldn't say he is evil to me- well sometimes but the majority he isn't. He is literally either really lovey dovey, complimenting me, helping me, all that- or a prick and just saying horrible stuff. The kids always see the hugs and normally I don't want to hug him because I'm still pissed off so they probably think I'm bring evil to daddy because I brush him off.

I still think the two are separate. He can be a crap and shitty partner but as a dad he isn't bad.

AnyFucker Sun 20-Jan-13 21:41:08

Keep thinking that. Keep walking on eggshells. Keep swallowing the verbal abuse and hoping your kids don't hear (news flash ! they do!)

Why did you post ?

JustFabulous Sun 20-Jan-13 21:41:14

It doesn't sound worse than it is. It IS that bad.

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 21:41:27

The thing is with this is that yes he has said worse but always under the influence of drink. Yesterday he wasn't drinking, he was quite calm which is not like him at all. So for him to say that sober was/is a big shock. He must really hate me!

AnyFucker Sun 20-Jan-13 21:44:52

He doesn't hate you. He just thinks you are inferior to him. And that it's ok to say the things he wouldn't dare to say to someone else. because if he said them to his boss he would get the sack. If he said them to a stranger in the street he would get twatted. If he said them to his friends they would tell him to fuck off.

Why is it ok to say them to you ?

This isn't something he can't control, or he would be spitting in his boss's face, in the check out girls face, in his mates face down the pub

are you a different class of citizen ?

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 21:46:04

I originally posted because I honestly thought maybe I was overreacting. That because he only 'said' it and never done it or threatened to do it, it wasn't so bad.

AnyFucker Sun 20-Jan-13 21:49:09

of course it's bad

if I say to you now "I want to punch you in the face" does it make it any less awful that there is no actual option to punch you in the face ?

of course it doesn't

Back2Two Sun 20-Jan-13 21:50:01

To be honest I feel trapped sometimes but it is that we are so bloody different it's hard. We literally have lead opposite lives and I think he is living on a totally different planet, but he thinks I'm living on a different planet.

This seems a pretty difficult basis to try to build upon.

SparkyDudess Sun 20-Jan-13 22:23:04

Sorry,'evil' should have been 'vile', but both fit.

I don't think you're overreacting, quite the opposite. Sounds like he's nastier still when he's had a drink?

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 22:37:25

It's not that he thinks I'm inferior- its kind of the opposite. He hates that I'm working, that it's my flat, that it's my rules, that I had a dream 5 years ago and stuck to it even though I was on my own, whereas he is in the same position as he was 10 years ago when I met him. I know he is trying to put me down, make me feel less than I'm worth when he is angry. And then when he's happy again I get all the 'I'm proud of you, you've done great even though I was a prick'.

When he is angry then there's no hope to get through to him at all.

NotSoNervous Sun 20-Jan-13 22:39:30

Your not over reacting at all, of course your going to be devastated. It's a very aggressive thing to say aswell. Hope you okay x

cincodemayo Sun 20-Jan-13 22:41:59

What's this guy's relationship history and does he have other children?

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 22:49:50

There isn't much of a relationship history, 1 serious gf he had a place with when he was younger, got into financial trouble, split up, got with someone else, not very serious- though she got pregnant- so yes he has another child.

I know what he said was bad, but haven't we all said things in the heat of the moment when your pissed off?! Ok I know most normal people wouldn't go as far as he does, but that's just him. It's kind of upsetting that everyone sees him as an abuser and a bad dad and that I'm putting my children in harms way!

You asked for honest opinions but you don't really want to hear them.
And you are kidding yourself in thinking your children arent affected by being in the middle of such a toxic relationship.

dequoisagitil Sun 20-Jan-13 22:52:00

So he wants to drag you down to his level. Why is that ok to you?

If a friend treated you like this, would they still be your friend?

If he's a great dad, he can be a great dad as a non-resident parent while not in a relationship with you.

Don't fool yourself the dc don't hear the verbal abuse - how big is your house? Is it soundproofed? The dc never wake up to go to the toilet? They won't continue to be unaware, if they are now. Is this sort of thing what you'd like for them to have in their own relationships in the future? Cos that's what you're teaching.

And no, i have never said anything so disgusting in 'the heat of the moment'. Nor would i accept having it said to me. Why are you back tracking and making excuses for this man?

You just said 'thats just him' - so thats ok then?

BeOrganised Sun 20-Jan-13 22:58:02

I really did want honest opinions on the whole 'spitting' thing because I was so upset. It's not that I don't want to hear your opinions, that's fine! But I'm allowed to feel upset by them and disagree with some parts?

Obviously house is t sound proof and dc may have heard a few arguments, but nothing that is going to scar them, however I do agree with the 'toxic' atmosphere. And I do worry how our relationship will effect the dc especially the oldest.

You know this isnt normal or you wouldnt be asking.
Children learn how to conduct adult relationships by example - so youre right to worry.
Sorry for blunt replies btw - am on mobile & typing is crap!

TranceDaemon Sun 20-Jan-13 23:10:03

I know it's hard to hear OP, you asked for honest answers and that is what you are getting. The answers you have are from people who have been through it, who recognise what you are experiencing as abuse.

I found it hard to believe too as have most of us, but it IS abuse. Abuse isn't just him punching you in the face and all the things you have said are things that are abusive.

An abusive man isn't like that all the time. They work in cycles, with just enough 'nice' to keep you hoping and hanging on. It is how he behaves when he is being nasty that is your true gauge of what sort of a person he really is. Normal men DON'T tell their partners they would kill them, threaten to spit in their face or frighten them.

He tells you it's you, so then you work even harder to avoid his outbursts, walk on eggshells and try harder to be perfect. It doesn't matter what you do, NOTHING you could do would justify his behaviour to you. Normal men would never, ever do or say the things you describe.

You cannot change him. There is nothing you can say, or do that will make him stop treating you like this. There is no sort of counselling or therapy that will MAKE him stop abusing you. The only options you have are to stay and accept that your P's damaged childhood is doomed to repeat itself and that your relationship is teaching your children how to behave in their own relationships in the future, OR to leave and realise that that is your ONLY choice if you want to protect your kids.

I know that's not easy to hear and your natural reaction is to rebel against that possibility. I know that when you have invested so much in a relationship that the thought of it ending feels like too much. The reason you feel like this is because of the brainwashing you have had. It is SO much easier to stay away once you get out. You have to first accept that you need to leave, leaving is easy in comparison.

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 00:03:50

Is it any better that you acknowledge that he doesn't see you as inferior, but on some level superior so he has to drag you down?

I am sorry you feel bad after posting here, but the truth is your kids are in harm's way

you can excuse him and rationalise his verbal abuse of you all you like, but you have a choice and your kids do not

foslady Mon 21-Jan-13 00:07:02

Ok OP - you're making me angry, I want to spit in your face.

But that's ok to say that to you because I'm a good mum.

Don't like me saying it to you?

But it's ok for your childrens father to - someone who SHOULD respect you.

Now do you get the point???

foslady Mon 21-Jan-13 00:09:33

Sorry if that was blunt - but SURELY you can see from the amount of posts that this guy is toxic to you. And that behaviour WILL spread into your childrens behaviour, either towards you or in the kind of relationships they have

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 00:13:53

OP asked for honest opinions but has rationised every one

she isn't ready to hear it yet

but one day she will be

probably when he starts on the kids

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 00:14:05

*rationalised

Or maybe when he does actually spit in her face (or worse). sad

AnyFucker Mon 21-Jan-13 00:27:39

of course, he is verbally acting out what he wants to do (so far)

it won't be too long until he actually does it if OP carries on making excuses for him

cincodemayo Mon 21-Jan-13 00:54:25

You say he admits he's been 'a prick' to you and you've known him for 10 years and in that time, you've had children with him but haven't really been living with him.

So has your relationship existed alongside these other relationships he's had, including the one in which he fathered another child?

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