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Reasons not to have an affair

(253 Posts)
Callyfornication Sat 12-Jan-13 22:00:53

Ok..... I am 23, he is 33. Ive been single for 5 months and he's married with a baby. Predictably, we work together, and we have to travel to France 1 week every 8 weeks. We went to France 2 weeks ago and on 1 night, after a lot of wine we ended up in his hotel room. Tbh I feel like it's been building up for ages and he's been the one putting the effort in buttttt he is fit and really sweet and I have enjoyed it....

Pleased to report we didn't kiss or shag but he gave it his best shot. I slurred about his marital vows and left.... I feel like a bit of an idiot for getting into that situation and can't guarantee if it happen again I wouldn't do it though, and the sexual tension is sky high. Ive spoken to a couple of mates about it who have all said they would have gone there which has made me feel a bit less guilty (but also less confident of what I'd do if theres a next time).

Advice? Could everyone tell me all the horror stories and worst cases so I don't go there....?

McNameChange Sat 12-Jan-13 22:03:32

reasons not to have an affair: HE'S MARRIED WITH A BABY.

Because men or women willing to cheat on their partners are arseholes who want the best of both worlds and it will hurt people in the long run

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 12-Jan-13 22:05:03

Yes, read my thread here. See if it's 'horror story' enough for you. It's going to end in absolute disaster. sad
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/1657054-Oh-crap-Im-really-out-of-my-depth-with-this-please-help?msgid=36562589#36562589

ahmnoclassyladybut Sat 12-Jan-13 22:05:14

you can find some pretty good horror stories on here in about 2 mins...

Its not you breaking any promises, its him. OTOH a 33 year old married man with a baby doesn't sound the best catch in the world tbh but its your life.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 12-Jan-13 22:05:22
NoImSpartacus Sat 12-Jan-13 22:05:25

You need to find some new mates.

balotelli Sat 12-Jan-13 22:05:53

He's a TWAT.

He's willing to cheat on his wife and child.. he would easily cheat on you.

He's a TWAT!!!!!!!!

InTheNightGarden Sat 12-Jan-13 22:06:07

you should have enough self respect to not do it anyway...think of his wife and how you'd feel if you had just had a baby and your husband cheated...
that would be enough for me NEVER to do anything like that regardless of any feelings...

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Sat 12-Jan-13 22:06:48

You will feel like a twat shagging someone who borrows again the trust placed in them. If he is going to shag someone from work right after his wife has had a baby then he is obviously a dick. There are enough people who are fit and sweet and not a dick to make the whole experiment unnecessary.

OhToBeCleo Sat 12-Jan-13 22:07:16

Because it's not worth it.
Because lots of people will get hurt - you included!

NoraLuca Sat 12-Jan-13 22:07:17

If he's willing to cheat then he's an arsehole, end of. If you want to go there anyway, chances are you'll regret it sooner or later.

CointreauVersial Sat 12-Jan-13 22:07:27

You deserve better, OP.

You really need answers to that question? You really need someone to point out to you why you don't go there? Blimey.

Callyfornication Sat 12-Jan-13 22:11:35

I didnt go there! & given that we'd shared about 6 bottles of wine, I was legless and he was trying everything, Im pretty sure I wouldn't do it as I didn't then...... But part of our jobs involve being away in hotels and drinking with new clients, so I can't exactl avoid that. I want to make sure I don't. I thought Id get a real telling off from mates about it but didn't....

Thanks everyone, you are being very helpful! grin

BettySuarez Sat 12-Jan-13 22:12:10

How do you feel about this baby now growing up without a father?

Seriously, how does that make YOU feel?

WaynettaSlobsLover Sat 12-Jan-13 22:12:47

I'm your age and I think you need to be a hell of a lot more mature and back off from this obvious loser. He is not the only 'fitttttt' 'sweet' guy in the world. Have some respect for his wife and that innocent little baby, and tell him in no uncertain terms to fuck off. Cannot believe you are even asking the question you asked.

Bazinga12 Sat 12-Jan-13 22:13:20

Maybe think about what you'd want from it long term?

If it works out you'd either be a bit on the side forever, which will eventually make you feel like shit. Or he'd leave his wife and baby for you, so you'd have to be damn sure it's going to go the distance.

If it doesn't work out presumably you'll have to continue working together which won't be fun for either of you.

Either way he's a shitbag.

Cherylkerl Sat 12-Jan-13 22:14:21

Because you'll fall for him
Because you'll feel like shit when he's with his family and spend every big day Eg Christmas alone
Because when te shit hits the fan, you'll be dropped like a hot potato
Because it will make you paranoid about who sees you
Because even if you fall in love with one another and ride off into the sunset, your future looks like this: maintenance payments, hurt ex, not being invited to stepchildrens weddings and birthdays as the OW
Because you'll create a vacancy and never trust him

The chemistry and tension might feel real now but it is artificial. Sex is tempting - they designed it to be like that. In reality, he spends half an hour on the shitter, farts, leaves the toilet seat up, picks his nose ad infinitum

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Sat 12-Jan-13 22:14:27

But now you are sober aren't you thinking he is a slimy creep?

fwiw I would love a no strings anonymous shag in a hotel room with a 23 yo but I don't make any effort to get one because I love not being a total loser more.

Numberlock Sat 12-Jan-13 22:17:32

So don't drink, keep the client meetings professional, make your excuses as early as possible, go to your room and switch your phone off. It's not difficult if you really do want to resist him...

Also, am I the only one who doesn't believe you haven't already had sex with him? Really, after that much wine?

WaynettaSlobsLover Sat 12-Jan-13 22:18:02

i advise buying a good dildo if you are that sexually frustrated. smile He on the other hand needs a slap with one.

DoodlesNoodles Sat 12-Jan-13 22:20:06

This is why you shouldn't drink if you can't trust yourself not to get into awkward situations. Are you flirting with him? If anyone flirts with me I am very clear that it is not welcomed.

I would find someone who was happy to cheat on their wife and baby repulsive.

Well done for not actually taking things further.

DoodlesNoodles Sat 12-Jan-13 22:23:40

I don't think it is safe to drink that much and go back to a blokes room.

It is a really stupid and irresponsible thing to do.

You have more self-respect than to sleep with another woman's husband?

marriedinwhite Sat 12-Jan-13 22:25:13

He's 10 years older than you and should know better. He has a wife and a child. You are free and single and need to knock this on the head. Stop drinking alcohol when entertaining clients so you keep a clear head. Find a hobby. Think that you might meet someone single and lovely and one of your mates will tell and someone single and lovely might suddenly be less keen because actually it isn't very nice to sleep with someone else's partner/husband.

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 22:26:01

He's married and you work together.

People at work will judge you far more harshly and won't take you seriously if you shag a married colleague. If he's your superior, you'll have shagged your way to any promotions you get (plus if it all goes horribly wrong, your job will be at risk). You'll be derided as the office bike.

Then there's the consequences of hurting a woman you don't even know. What has she done to you? What has her baby done to you?

She might be married to a cheating nob, but there's no call to make it easy for him - don't imagine it's only you that could have turned his head.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 12-Jan-13 22:26:31

6 bottles of wine!!!

Bloody hell.

He's a sleeze. And this sounds like a shit situation. Does you work really have to be like this?

GetOrf Sat 12-Jan-13 22:27:41

what loads of people have said, especially married. Seriously. You have your whole life in front of you, don't bloody well waste your twenties shagging some ghastly dipso tosser with a wife and baby at home.

You could be out with your mates meeting nice blokes with no ties.

Do you think so little of yourself to think that this bloke is as good as it gets?

Callyfornication Sat 12-Jan-13 22:33:18

Urghhh. Numberlock we genuinely didn't do anything but it was building to that iykwim.. It sounds silly but I actually thought of theads on here and that's what cut through the wine-haze.... Naively I had thought of us as being friends and the 'flirting' as laid back banter which I have with a few people until that night. Urghhhhhhh.

You also have to consider the fallout should his wife find out. She is an unknown quantity in this equation and you should consider your position at work should you sleep with her husband then it becomes public. You think it won't come out but wives have an uncanny knack of knowing when their husband's have strayed...

Personally I would be staying completely professional with the guy on as minimal basis as the job would allow.

Smo2 Sat 12-Jan-13 22:45:08

sad a woman like you, but who chose to take it further wrecked my life and made my children sob for weeks two years later they are still deeply affected and I'm a different person. it's not worth it, get some self respect and a man of your own ffs. You shouldn't even have been in his room, no matter how much wine.

noblegiraffe Sat 12-Jan-13 22:45:33

He's got a wife and baby and he invited an exceptionally drunk woman back to his hotel room and did everything he could to try to get a shag from her?

He's not sweet, he's repulsive. Nice men don't try to take advantage of very drunk women. Nice men don't cheat on their wives. Nice men don't jeopardise their relationship with their child.

Well done for saying no. Now tell him to fuck off.

Please don't do this. It's morally wrong, and you know it, hence the post.

Think for one second that you could be her, how dies that make you feel? One day you may be her, and writing on MN as a worried wife, not nice is it?

Make your decisions, and treat others as you'd wish. What goes around...

RubyrooUK Sat 12-Jan-13 22:46:27

A similar thing has happened to me a few times - attractive guy with pregnant wife/new baby has come on to me when we are working together.

I didn't go there because the idea of a man who would cheat on someone he was having a baby with/had chosen recently to have a child with, made me find them unattractive. That was enough really. No matter if I just wanted a quick shag or long term relationship, the baby-with-someone-else aspect always made me think "yuck, that's a bit sleazy" even if the guy didn't seem that way.

Now I have children of my own, I find the idea of my own DH cheating even more repulsive at a time (pregnancy/new baby) which has been often exceptionally hard work but sort of magical for building our family. So now I think how sad it was for those men that they gave up on that magic so easily.

If you still want to do it, I suppose you will. But I just wouldn't find it a very sexy situation.

WaynettaSlobsLover Sat 12-Jan-13 22:49:12

you also may want to think about your behaviour and general conduct amongst colleagues who are married or have partners. Flirting with people who arent single is not appropriate and more often than not leads to something more. Gets you a very bad reputation in the workplace too. I would bet another colleague of yours has already spotted what is going on.

lighted Sat 12-Jan-13 22:50:45

Having affairs ruins lives - the only excitement is for a short time at the start - then you cause damage to many people's lives - for a bit of sex.

Monty27 Sat 12-Jan-13 22:52:45

He's a knob. And so are you if you 'go there'.

Poor young family at home.

Beggars belief.

pausingforbreath Sat 12-Jan-13 22:54:48

Because he's already proven himself to be a liar and a cheat to you?

My husbands OW worked with him, went on business trips involving hotel stays with him.
He promised her the world, a brilliant future together. She believed him and fell in love , she was 10 years younger than him ( and me).

When shit hit the fan - he dumped her and broke all his promises .
She is left broken hearted and without the job she loved. ( didn't want to face him anymore).
Also, as one of my lines was ' as beautiful and funny, intelligent and youthful she is, I know I have more standards and morals in the crap I shit out from my arse than she does in every fibre of herself- that makes me the better woman '
I know I could never KNOWINGLY sleep with another woman's husband, some obviously have no problem with that; but please have more self respect than that. You know it is a ' relationship' based on tears - either yours or his wife and kids.

lighted Sat 12-Jan-13 22:56:07

He'll have sex with you and then go home and have sex with his wife.

cornishblue Sat 12-Jan-13 22:56:11

Can you think of any good reasons why you should have an affair?

Do you really want to be someone else's cheap shag?

SundaeGirl Sat 12-Jan-13 22:59:00

Wow, the OP hasn't done anything yet! Cripes, the sanctimony!

And Smo, the woman didn't wreck your life your and make your children weep FFS. That was your DH.

OP, don't do it. Get a boyfriend elsewhere and I guarantee the sexual tension between you and this guy will go away. You're bored!

mammadiggingdeep Sat 12-Jan-13 23:01:51

Because you'll get bad relationship karma. If you shut all over another woman's marriage, one day you'll get it right back on you and your future relationship/marriage. If you don't actually get cheated on, you'll be a paranoid person, waiting for it to happen because you'll know what men can be capable if and you'll know there's but hrs like you around who actually know about wives and babies and STILL get involved/think about it.

lighted Sat 12-Jan-13 23:06:04

Why do all your friends think sleeping with married men is good? Are they desperate?

Adversecamber Sat 12-Jan-13 23:07:46

When my sisters DH had an affair she had a complete breakdown and ended up really ill because of it.

One of my other sisters is an OW, there are six siblings in my family, two refuse to even speak to her.

What would your Mum or some other relative that you respect think about you?

SundaeGirl Sat 12-Jan-13 23:08:46

She won't get relationship karma. At 23 this is just part of the learning process - how to avoid dodgy guys.

badinage Sat 12-Jan-13 23:11:41

Although I've got no problem with anyone in the workplace being regarded as unprofessional when they mix sex with business, I do wish that married men who try to shag young drunken female colleagues would get a 'bad reputation' because some of this is based on outright sexism.

OP the reasons your friends are saying 'go for it' is because they have no idea what it's like to be in his wife's position, at home with a young baby. They just can't empathise with that other woman. Plus, they've probably been brought up on a wishy-washy mantra of being non-judgemental, even if their friend is risking her career, her sexual health and possibly her sanity by getting involved with a married bloke. Privately, some of them might have different opinions.....

I'd set some ground-rules before travelling with him again. I'd tell him that you want a professional and business like relationship only from now on and that you regret all the flirting. Then don't drink on your business trips and don't get into any conversations about his marriage.

Tell yourself that you will always worth more than being the spare wheel in someone else's relationship and do recognise this bloke for the sleaze that he is.

Callyfornication Sat 12-Jan-13 23:12:04

Thanks SundaeGirl grin but I suppose this is the metaphorical bucket of cold water I was looking for...

Friends didnt recommend a relationship (not that I want one) but more said they felt the person with the spouse was the one who should be responsible for the moral high ground. If I had a husband and he had an affair I'd blame him not the OW. We dont have any friends who are married so dont know anyone who's been on the other side iykwim.

WaynettaSlobsLover Sat 12-Jan-13 23:17:20

She won't get relationship karma. At 23 this is just part of the learning process - how to avoid dodgy guys

biggest load of shite ive read in a long time.

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 23:19:03

His vows are his responsibility, yes, but if you knowingly do something that you know the consequences of which will hurt another person, then you have no out. It's still you colluding with someone to hurt that person.

lighted Sat 12-Jan-13 23:21:06

Some 'friends' will get use you to provide them with entertainment from your 'adventures' and will enjoy hearing the latest 'instalment'.

badinage Sat 12-Jan-13 23:22:16

That's such a cop-out if I may say so.

Yes the married man's got the greater responsibility, but that doesn't mean you have no responsibility to yourself and your own morals and standards, does it? Or to a wife and baby who'd get hurt beyond measure if you agreed to help him cheat?

But if that's your mindset (and I think you'll feel differently when you're in his wife's shoes) then concentrate on what you've got to lose if you did this. Being professional and respected at work is worth so much more than a drunken shag every 8 weeks on the company bill.....

TheCrackFox Sat 12-Jan-13 23:23:28

You could end up losing your job over this sleazy fucker.

SummerDad Sat 12-Jan-13 23:23:51

because he is a cheat, end of.

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 23:27:17

Yes please don't underestimate the repercussions for you if you were to shag your colleague. We still live in a world where women are judged far more harshly and disparagingly for sexual exploits. He'd likely be able to boast about it to the men, while you'd be depicted as the slut (and home-wrecker if it got to the wife).

GloryWhole Sat 12-Jan-13 23:28:14

He's a complete arsehole, and you're an idiot to even need to post this thread to get reminders of why not to have an affair.

Decency. Common fucking decency. You'd really be tempted to 'go there' knowing he has a wife and child, and that he is a fucking sleazebag?

fortyplus Sat 12-Jan-13 23:28:48

You are young free and single
He's married with a baby

You'll look at him with doe eyes in the office
Everyone will think you're pathetic

He'll tell one or two people at work
He'll be known as 'a bit of a lad' while you gain a reputation as 'the office bike'.

If you get found out then one or both of you will get sacked for misconduct
Probably you as he's the married one with the baby

IThinkOfHappyWhenIThinkOfYou Sat 12-Jan-13 23:29:03

WARNING graphic post

His responsibility to his doesn't negate your responsibility to you. He'll shag his wife then put his dick in your mouth without even showering. He'll be going back and forward between the two of you. He will tell you he isn't sleeping with her but he is. He'll be with you and answer his phone to her. His birthday will be with her, Christmas will be with her, you won't be introduced to his family or friends and in the meantime you will be missing out on a genuine relationship with someone who actually likes you. He doesn't like you, if he did he wouldn't be turning you into his standby shag. He is a sleazy knob.

PoohBearsHole Sat 12-Jan-13 23:31:32

Take a step back and ensure that as you are working you DON'T get yourself into this position again, perhaps cut back on the drinking. Actually no perhaps about it. Cut back on the drink when abroad. Even if you work in the alcohol industry (actually more of a reason to!)

Remember, you are 23 and this could very much ruin your reputation at work and for future roles. I have a colleague (similar age) who is "doing everything but" with her direct boss (20 years older, in relationship - poor but no excuse - with a new baby). She will not last as her reputation is shot.

One rule in work life

"DON'T SCREW THE CREW" live by it, particularly as he is married.

MadBusLady Sat 12-Jan-13 23:32:56

From a selfish point of view, the big reason not to do it is that he's not some big romantic prize to be yearned for. He is not a sweet, nice guy. He is a SLEAZY CHEATING INADEQUATE LOSER! Do you think sweet nice guys try it on with very, very drunk ten years' younger junior work colleagues? With a baby at home?

Callyfornication Sat 12-Jan-13 23:33:08

badinage my own morals and standards are what made me say NONONONONO at the time, but they clearly arent strong enough for me to not be attracted to him....

Affairs are rife in my industry sadly. Unprofessional yes, but I wouldnt get the sack.

So, do I have to actually spell it out soberly, as since then the texts/voicemails have continued? I have only replied to work ones.

Monty27 Sat 12-Jan-13 23:33:29

OP

Your last post. The fact that you were getting plastered in a hotel with him is just wrong... to his wife and child at least.

Oh ffs. Grow up. You're 23 not 13.

lighted Sat 12-Jan-13 23:33:48

It's not flattering to have someone wanting to get you into bed when they already have someone at home with their baby.

lighted Sat 12-Jan-13 23:36:10

Just because you are attracted to someone, it doesn't mean you have to have sex with them. He's not the last man on the planet.

Monty27 Sat 12-Jan-13 23:37:37

Lighted wise words.

Personally at 23 and some married 33 yo knob with a baby tried it on with me I would not have been able to contain my embarrassment.

I've been round the block OP... with single men. Your friends sound dodgy.

fortyplus Sat 12-Jan-13 23:39:59

I once joked with dh about getting chatted up by some loser in a night club. Dh replied
You should just feel ashamed that he thought he stood more chance with you than anyone else

Funny in our case, but not in yours when the man in question has a wife and baby

PoohBearsHole Sat 12-Jan-13 23:41:28

And really - affairs are rife? Who is telling you that? And you really want to be part of the crew?

I can guarantee you that you will come out of it in a very muddy fashion, whereas HE WON'T. Guarantee it.

It could very well affect your chance of promotion and could very well affect any job offers from other companies. People have very long memories of who may or may not have shagged who.

I know for a fact there is an old rumour I slept with a colleague. As a matter of fact we have never even kissed, we were friends before we started working together but that doesn't mean everyone doesn't think I was at one point he "shag".

SarahBumBarer Sat 12-Jan-13 23:42:06

THere speaks a 23 year old. Trust me - if you had a husband and he had an affair you would NOT blame him and not the OW. Your feelings towards him would be more complex than your feelings towards her - she is far easier to hate.

What could you possibly see in a guy who would cheat on his wife when he has a baby? What kind of guy does that? Yes it is a tough time with a new baby but men act like men about it and SUPPORT their wives and baby and pathetic man-childs spend their time in hotel rooms with women 10 years younger than them.

Yes he is the one to make vows but what kind of world would we live in if we felt that we owed absolutely no duty of care to any other living person unless we had married them. Could you really betray a woman who is already in a vulnerable position (post baby and married to a scumbag twat) just because you didn't make a vow? If you saw a stranger struggling in the street would you not help them? So why kick this woman when she is down?

Whatever shit he tells you about how neglected he is etc (boo hoo) and how bad his marriage is and that his wife doesn't understands him only too well is rubbish but it will suck you and and when/if he stays with his wife and new baby rather than be with you despite everything he has told you about how wonderful things are with you it will wreck your self esteem and affect you and your relationships forever more. And the same friends who are so cavalierly telling you now to go for it will be bored with listening to you whining about how crap you feel.

If I slept with every bloke I was sexually attracted to I would be ready for the knackers yard by now!

You have the choice whether to sleep with the man or not. He is offering it on a plate to you. But every action has a reaction and sometimes there is a consequence to face.

LineRunner Sat 12-Jan-13 23:43:39

Why do you think you would have a affair?

FlorentinePogen Sat 12-Jan-13 23:45:29

Scenario 1 - You let him fuck you. He lets one or two of his buddies know. You get a bit of a rep. as the office bike/cumbucket.

Scenario 2 - You knock this shite on the head now and let it be known that you rebuffed this disloyal clown's drunken advances.

I know who I'd think more of given the choice.

BTW Cally, if you can down 3 bottles of wine and remain compos mentis, I doff my cap to you. I couldn't but then again, I am only a man.

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 23:48:44

Ah, she's only 23 she probably barely had a hangover, Florentine grin.

Beehive21 Sat 12-Jan-13 23:50:45

I think you should sleep with him. Too many people pass up experiences for moral or otherwise reasons- if you want to do it go ahead. Just remember it stays with you for life!

EnjoyResponsibly Sat 12-Jan-13 23:50:58

When he goes to kiss you...that's the same mouth that went down on his wife last night.

Man, what a catch. That's definitely the man I'd be looking for if I was 23.

Monty27 Sat 12-Jan-13 23:51:28

Cally one day that wife might be you.

I hope you can 'man up' then. Yes?

badinage Sat 12-Jan-13 23:54:48

Yes you do have to spell it out while sober. And remain sober when ever you're with him. Especially if you use words like uncomfortable, unprofessional, unwanted attention because that will put the shits up him that if he carries on sending you dodgy texts and e mails then HR will be hoiking him in for a meeting. Before you can utter the words 'Employment Tribunal' or 'Sexual Harassment' you won't see him for dust.......

farmersdaugther Sat 12-Jan-13 23:55:12

Stop being an idiot OP....do stupid things with men closer to your own age or older...but single men.

If he's happy to fuck around with you behind is wife back then who else is he messing about with. There is never just one other girl!

Have some self respect for yourself and someone marriage.

bluebiscuit Sat 12-Jan-13 23:56:36

Cally- I know he's the one who made the marriage vows etc

But you are a human being and if you are a good one, you have humanity. OWs who say they aren't at fault are lacking in humanity. Don't be that person. You have a responsibility to other humans - in this case his wife.

Man shagging young female colleague whilst wife at home with baby/kids is a cliche repeated by thousands of people up and down the country every day. This man is selfish and arrogant. They always are - it's a pre requisite. Don't get involved. It is horrific all round.

Be assured that this man will definitely cheat on his wife. Not with you, with someone else. Don't have any involvement with a arrogant twat with baggage and who is deceitful. Wait until you find someone who is a actually single and can have a proper relationship with you.

farmersdaugther Sat 12-Jan-13 23:59:05

Blue: very good post smile

SooFrustrated Sun 13-Jan-13 00:02:37

No job requires you to drink multiple bottles of wine and get so legless that you find yourself in that situation.

Get some self respect and make it clear in no uncertain terms that the relationship is strictly professional.

madgered Sun 13-Jan-13 00:04:46

don't do it! the damage and hurt you will cause if you are found out will be unimaginable.

bluebiscuit Sun 13-Jan-13 00:07:33

Thanks farmersdaughter, I really hope it makes a difference to the op.

Callyfornication Sun 13-Jan-13 00:09:47

badinage thats actually a good idea and I think I'll use it.... I thought I made my view on married=no sex quite clear but he is still being over friendly. I don't know if this is because he intends to try again or is trying to revert to previous friendliness....

Viviennemary Sun 13-Jan-13 00:10:43

I think you did the right thing as you will most likely get hurt if you started an affair with this man. But so many many people have affairs there must be an awful lot of selfish people out there.

Startail Sun 13-Jan-13 00:48:00

Because, to quote my DSIS,

"He's a lying, cheating, two timing bastard!"

cheeseandpineapple Sun 13-Jan-13 00:59:54

Cally, it can be flattering and tempting, particularly if he's persistent and you're physically attracted to him but now he's sounding like a pest and taking advantage of you.

I was in your shoes once, around same age, maybe slightly older. I adored a guy at work, we had chemistry and banter but I never thought there was anything more to it than a bit of innocent flirting as he was married with a child and quite a devout Christian. But one night, after a work event, as we said goodbye, he kissed me. I was completely stumped as I never expected any lines to be crossed. We talked about it a few days later and he told me that he thought he should leave the company as he didn't want to cross the line further. He did end up leaving and I am soooo glad it never developed into anything.

Although I knew it was wrong then and knew it could get messy and didn't want to take it further, I was conflicted. It really is only now, nearly 20 years later, post kids that I can see how messy it would have been.

Very, very messy. You already know it's wrong and even if you haven't kissed, the lines are very blurry, he's crossed them even if you haven't quite and he hopes you will waiver if he persists.

Despite him looking fit, he is no catch.

Unfortunately for his wife, a line has been crossed and it is already very very messy for her as it turns out she is married to a prize twat. She may not know it yet.

But you do.

Is he more Snr? It sounds like harassment if you've made it clear you're not interested and he's persisting. Save the texts just in case and make it clear that he must stop propositioning you.

Monty27 Sun 13-Jan-13 02:50:06

Raise your bar Cally.

That is all.

Fidelia Sun 13-Jan-13 07:13:37

Just so we're clear, I've never been the other woman but I had friends who were.

You need to look at your motivation and what it is in you (some kind of lack?) that makes you feel flattered by him. It may be that you enjoy the sense of competition and that he wants you even though he's got someone else, it may be that you're scared of true intimacy and want someone not emotionally available, it may be that your own father figure was often absent either physically or emotionally and that you're repeating that pattern here. But honestly, he will not meet your real needs, and will not make you whole.

He's a liar. He's lying to his wife and he'll be lying to you. She'll already know something isn't right because he'll have become emotionally distant from her, so that he can enable himself to flirt etc with you. To do that, he'll have started being very critical and negative about her, only seeing her faults and never the good stuff. He may well have told you things about her. He'll have lied/exaggerated to make her look worse and to get sympathy from you. He'll have told you they're not sleeping together. They may not be just yet (if the baby's very young) but they will be soon if they're not already, but he won't tell you that. He wants you to believe he can be some kind of faithful, to you at least (which can be flattering).

You are not as important to him as he makes out. He doesn't see or care about the real you, he's living some kind of fantasy. He doesn't live with your dirty washing, have to help with the cleaning and other chores, hear you fart in bed etc etc. The things that he does at home with his wife. When reality starts to hit, you won't be what he wants anymore.

People at work will have seen you flirting. And once you're crossed that line over friendship you can't go back, it doesn't work. If you continue flirting, it will become more familiar and people will notice the difference, they'll know what you're up to and it will ruin your professional reputation. And you'll never know it because it will be talked about in the loos etc and never to your face.

Married friends and friends in relationships will stop trusting you. Even if all your friends are single now, when they're not, they'll know you don't mind being with a married man and will not want you around theirs.

It will affect your own self esteem and your boundaries and your sense of self and morality. Being tempted is one thing, but going through with it will change you into a different person. You won't like who you become, deep down, even if you tell yourself you do, on the surface.

And all this doesn't even speak about the pain and devastation you'll cause to his wife and child. I know you won't be able to emphasise with this and others have said it. But the moment you cross that line, you'll have caused them damage and pain, even if they never find out, because of the damage it will do to the relationship between them.

You may well think he'll just do it with someone else. Well maybe he will, but why let yourself get caught up in it, all for the sake of a brief ego boost and some nice feeling hormones? Resist, make it clear to him when your sober (like badinage's words) and you'll always know what a strong person you are.

Smo2 Sun 13-Jan-13 07:20:01

Actually @sundaegirl

Yes, both her and my dh were responsible.

I was speaking from the perspective of the other woman, not absolving him of his responsibility.

Until you are in possession of all the facts, and clearly from my short post, you aren't,then I suggest you refrain from making sweeping comments

And one day, I really hope this never happens to you, because then you might actually realise how hurtful that comment was.

bbface Sun 13-Jan-13 07:33:43

This is a dreadful thread. The flippant way you post about considering sleeping with a married man and father of a newborn, the fact that your mates say they would have gone there and so you feel less guilty. In fact the whole post is quite disgusting.

No point giving you advise, because I very strongly suspect that if it is not this married man that you sleep with, it will be another down the line. You seem to lack any class or empathy and I have been quiet surprised about other posters being so kind.

bbface Sun 13-Jan-13 07:34:15

My harshest post ever! And it could have been a lot worse

Mosman Sun 13-Jan-13 07:46:43

I did it unknowingly when i was 20. I've never quite forgot the sight of him pushing the pram down Sutton High Street, wife at his side, baby of about 12 months sat up. Seriously affected me and I had no idea, how will you sleep at night ?

ravenAK Sun 13-Jan-13 07:54:30

Look, never mind his wife & kid for a moment (although that should prick your conscience tbh).

This guy invites a plastered female colleague 10 years his junior back to his hotel room. Having been knocked back, instead of sobering up, realising he behaved appallingly, clearing the air by apologising to you & making it clear that your future interactions are to be Strictly Business....

...at which point he'd be a bit of a nob but a remorseful one who'd dodged a bullet...

...he carries on being 'over-friendly'. Because in the cold light of day, without 3 bottles of wine involved, he still quite fancies using you to boost his ego & he thinks that he's going to get a shag sooner or later.

He's not even a little bit sweet. He's a sleazy little creep. If he wasn't, he'd be giving you the widest of berths.

& if you are silly enough to service him, you are going to be the girl who sleeps with married sleazy creeps, either just for shits & giggles, which will make you look heartless, or because you've fallen for him, which will make you look a prize loser.

Neither is a good look in the workplace.

cuillereasoupe Sun 13-Jan-13 08:51:04

He's looking at you thinking "she's clearly a bit of a slapper, I think I'll wait till next time she's pissed and have some of that".

AnitaManeater Sun 13-Jan-13 08:56:47

Friends didnt recommend a relationship (not that I want one) but more said they felt the person with the spouse was the one who should be responsible for the moral high ground. If I had a husband and he had an affair I'd blame him not the OW

Technically you are correct, the blame lies with the wayward husband but hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I would keep your head down, I expect your behaviour hasn't gone unnoticed and she probably already suspects something.

SunshineOutdoors Sun 13-Jan-13 08:58:52

There's no way this guy is sweet if he's doing that to his wife. Arsehole.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 09:13:10

'He's looking at you thinking "she's clearly a bit of a slapper, I think I'll wait till next time she's pissed and have some of that".' - why? How do you know this? Is there no chance she's thinking 'She's gorgeous, so much lovelier than my mistake of a marriage'?

'No point giving you advise, because I very strongly suspect that if it is not this married man that you sleep with, it will be another down the line. You seem to lack any class or empathy and I have been quiet surprised about other posters being so kind.' - what?! Even leaving aside the pompous reference to class, why should any of this be true? The OP hasn't done anything but flirt, in fact, plastered, she still turned down someone she fancied.

There are loads more ridiculous sweeping generalisations, this thread is full of them,^ these were just near the top.

OP, a lot of the 'advice' you are receiving (how could you sleep, etc) is people with issues venting, it's no advice at all. But it is insight, from the sucking his dick/going down crudity to the spewing posts,you can see the strength of reaction. (If a posting name relates to fidelity then know it's personal!) Loads of women want to blame the OW for an affair so just assume if you do have an affair there'll be women like this talking about you!

strumpetpumpkin Sun 13-Jan-13 09:25:34

if he won't think of his wife, then i would.
I know a few people who ate poly or in open relationships but even they wouldn't shag someone they suspected was just playing around behind their partners backs.
gross.

cupcake78 Sun 13-Jan-13 09:29:04

6 bottles of wine is alot! Don't think it isn't. If drinking does this to you then maybe you need to think is this the kind of person you want to be.

He will be trying it on with other women, at work or just friends don't think for one moment that your 'special' because your not! Your just a shag. Anything else he tells you is a load of rubbish with the intension of a shag. Just a shag, that's all it will ever be. Is that really all your worth?

He's playing you, he's lying to his wife, he's hurting his baby and you think he's sweet?!

He's played you like a fiddle and the only thing you should be feeling is very stupid for not seeing it and to still be tempted. See him for what he is, a fit (not so fit now tho is he) stupid, selfish, manipulative using bastard who is walking all over the woman he married and using you instead of his hand.

Do what you want but as a 34yr old with alot of life experience I can promise you you will never forget it. You will hate yourself for it the older you get and the more you grow up youll realise how much of fool he is making you look.

You will be paranoid about future partners and it will make you miserable.

He is a disrespectful child of a man who should be trodden on not surrendered to!

Shag a single man!

Mosman Sun 13-Jan-13 09:41:26

I would blame my husband if he had an affair, absolutely. I'd also tear your hair out.

WinkyWinkola Sun 13-Jan-13 09:42:58

Yuck. You find this man attractive? Really? He's creepy.

Lollybrolly Sun 13-Jan-13 09:54:54

To put it bluntly - you are flavour of the month just now but you could be anyone. This man is not looking for a relationship. He is looking for a warm wet hole in which he can plunge his cock in and out of behind his wifes back. It will all be on his terms as well.

Is that what you want to be - the current hole of choice???

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 09:57:53

Mosman - you'd really tear her hair out? Aside from general lack of dignity, wouldn't that just make a wife look like the unhinged and unattractive picture he'd painted - as well as being criminal?

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 09:59:38

Lolly - is it not at all possible that the OP might be more to him than a 'warm wet hole'? Not at all?

WinkyWinkola Sun 13-Jan-13 10:01:56

Well even if she were more than that, he's still a liar and a cheater. Thus he is not hot and he is not a catch.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 10:08:47

Well, he could still be hot. People fancied Warren Beatty and Mick Jagger after all.

WinkyWinkola Sun 13-Jan-13 10:10:07

Yes and look what happened to them. Marianne Faithfull - poor cow. There are always women who fall for the creeps. And those guys - Jagger, Beatty etc treated women very badly. Gorgeous.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 10:16:23

But my point is, they were still hot. This thread is so full of unchallenged generalisation, that's why I responded.

Lots of these posters seem to actually want the OP to be just a 'warm wet hole' because it makes them feel better about their DH's OW (or potential OW). But just cos we wish it, doesn't make it so.

WaynettaSlobsLover Sun 13-Jan-13 10:17:27

Sundae girl. I'm wondering if you have ever been the OW. Would explain the bollocks you have posted.

WaynettaSlobsLover Sun 13-Jan-13 10:18:52

In fact have a biscuit and let's hope you are never in the situation some posters on here have been in.

noblegiraffe Sun 13-Jan-13 10:20:37

If the OP does mean more to this bloke you'd hope he'd have taken a classier approach than trying to take advantage of her when extremely drunk. Because that suggests sleaze more than honourable man caught up in turbulent emotions.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 10:21:12

I've never been the other woman - and my DH is reading this thread! Which bit is 'the bollocks'?

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 10:22:18

Noble - almost everybody I know began their loving long term relationship with buckets of booze in them!

WaynettaSlobsLover Sun 13-Jan-13 10:23:36

All of it. You know, you making excuses and insulting other mumsnetters saying they have 'issues'. Do us all a favour and eat your biscuit

noblegiraffe Sun 13-Jan-13 10:24:54

A loving long term relationship with a married father?

higgle Sun 13-Jan-13 10:25:27

Because the whole point of a relationship with someone else is to make you happy, and this one won't, it is as simple as that.

noblegiraffe Sun 13-Jan-13 10:29:08

Sundae, don't mistake a drunken fumble between two single people who are interested in each other for what happened here. A married man with a baby at home taking his junior drunk colleague back to his hotel room and trying it on.
One is fine, the other is grim.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 10:29:52

I've looked and I can't see anything that looks like an 'excuse'?

As for the issues, yes, many of the posters on here do have issues with this - that's why they're posting. I include myself in that since my issue is that so many OPs get treated to a formulaic barrage as happened here. Lots of generalisation.

cuillereasoupe Sun 13-Jan-13 10:29:56

Sundaegirl, I can see where you're coming from to a certain extent. But you've overlooked the bit where the OP specifically asked for worst-case scenarios to put her off.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 10:32:26

I'm not mistaking it, I'm just wondering why a (married) man can't genuinely be interested in his (junior) colleague? I know a few examples RL/public life where they've gone on to get married.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 10:33:57

Cuille - er, yeah, that's true! Guess she got that!

cuillereasoupe Sun 13-Jan-13 10:35:15

It does happen, but the circumstances here (specifically the fact that the OP was very drunk) don't suggest anything very honourable. And the fact remains that the OP is asking people to put her off the idea, hence the worst-case scenarios (scenarii?)

Looksgoodingravy Sun 13-Jan-13 10:35:16

I blame ALL parties involved with dh betrayal!

Ego massaging. That's all this is. YOU could be anyone, he's after a cheap thrill and if you are willing enough to help him with this then more fool you. You will be dropped without a backwards glance if his wife finds out, once the bubble bursts he'll barely be able to say your name trust me.

I find the ow in dh's case so sad!

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 13-Jan-13 10:38:23

Mick jagger and co were also very, very rich and very, very famous. Cachet if you will as opposed to catch.

This man is some middle manager approaching middle age offering a drunken shag in a pre-paid hotel.

Not exactly the same.

Lollybrolly Sun 13-Jan-13 10:38:29

I doubt the OP is the love of his life.

Sexual tension does not = true love.

If he wants to get to know OP and he honestly believes she is worth investing his time, emotions and care (as well as his cock) into then he needs to end his marriage first so he can wholly availabe and free to do this.

But no,unsurprisingly he seems very keen to get into her alcohol fuelled knickers rather than woo her with his free time, romance and courtship.

farmersdaugther Sun 13-Jan-13 10:41:11

OP, going back to one of your earlier post, you mentioned that you won't lose your job for having an affair.

This might well be the case but you will lose your job for something else. Being drunk and making a fool out of yourself and the company in front of clients is a pretty quick way to get your P45. Also don't think that your colleagues aren't already talking about you and your behaviour. And if your colleagues are talking you can sure as hell guarantee your boss knows.

Make no mistake this guy will drop you like a hot potato when
a) He gets what he whats,
b) His job is on the line,
or
c) His wife finds out.

One or all of the above will happen. And trust me you'll find yourself in a impossible place.

Alittlestranger Sun 13-Jan-13 10:41:50

This >> "Lots of these posters seem to actually want the OP to be just a 'warm wet hole' because it makes them feel better about their DH's OW (or potential OW). But just cos we wish it, doesn't make it so."

On threads like this, there are always increasingly crude comments that if written by men we would have no problems labelling misogynistic. I get that this is always going to be one of the most raw boards, but it needs calling out occasionally.

Not that what the OP has posted is anything other than grim and cliched.

navada Sun 13-Jan-13 10:42:58

Sorry, I know this is a serious thread but I'm laughing at enjoyresponsible's post.
So true.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 10:48:09

Ego massaging. That's all this is. YOU could be anyone, he's after a cheap thrill and if you are willing enough to help him with this then more fool you. You will be dropped without a backwards glance if his wife finds out, once the bubble bursts he'll barely be able to say your name trust me.

How do you know that? They could both be fanatical Goethe obsessives who've never met anyone who understands the original German with quite the same depth of interpretation. He is conflicted and his cheating abusing wife is daily misery, while here, Cally, light of his life is charming and cares. He's bad with women, gets drunk, makes a mess, is heartbroken, etc. Or alternatively, they could both work in the PR department of Vodka Wicked. We just don't know.

What we do know is that lots of betrayed spouses NEED to believe that 'YOU could be anyone' and that the DH is unable to say their name. This is because the alternative, that the DH had a close/meaningful/loving interaction with the OW is too painful. Trust me.

MorrisZapp Sun 13-Jan-13 10:50:54

I'm with SundaeGirl. Some of the misogyny on this thread is just depressing.

The OP is 23. When I was that age, I couldn't have cared less if a guy was a sleaze, or untrustworthy, or not a very good catch etc. I fancied men because I fancied them. So it's pointless asking how she can possibly find him attractive. He is attractive to her, that's all we need to know.

Why should women be condemned as slappers because men fancy them? I actually find that really offensive. Maybe he actually does just fancy her, the same as anybody fancies anybody. It's a bit depressing to think that when men want to have sex with you it's because you are a slapper.

Op has been given good advice here, and I'm hopeful she can use it to resist temptation in the future. There is no happy outcome if she does sleep with this man. But some of the woman hating vitriol is way over the top. Men are responsible for their own actions, lets not infantilise them and expect other women to be the keepers of male morality.

cuillereasoupe Sun 13-Jan-13 10:51:34

As it happens I think you have a point sundae, but having said that I'm not quite sure what you're trying to achieve, given that the OP has clearly indicated that she wants to be talked out of this potential affair.

Next time you see him, ask him the following questions:

"How did you and your wife meet? Tell me three things that made you fall in love with her. What was your reaction when your son/daughter was put in your arms for the first time?"

If he can still try to shag you after that, I'd punch him, personally.

MorrisZapp Sun 13-Jan-13 10:54:45

And yes, the warm wet hole stuff is just horrible. Men don't dish this crap out to each other, why do women do it.

TheBrideofMucky Sun 13-Jan-13 10:55:03

When you are young and single you can't imagine what it's like to be his wife with a new baby. My friend was in a similar situation to you (except she slept with the guy) and she kind of looked down on the wife as being frumpy and boring and not able to keep her husband happy.

At the same age (24) I was a new mother. She knew what a big adjustment it was for me. I told her all about how your life suddenly changes, you have no sleep, no time to do anything for yourself, you feel low and vulnerable and have put on weight, friends become distant and social lives non existent for a while and you depend heavily on the support of your husband, who should be sharing in your wonderful new baby with you. Sometimes you see nobody else all day. Obviously this passes but it is a really strange, muted time for some.

When I asked her what she'd think if my husband met a younger woman through work and had an affair with her, she said she kind of put me and my situation in the wife's place and understood the human implications of what she had done. Hopefully she will think twice next time. I think what did it for her was that she could never imagine my husband doing something like that because he just wasn't that kind of person. What kind of person? Oh. Married man isn't a decent guy is he? Although his wife also probably thinks he is a doting father, not the type to cheat etc.

sparklyjumper Sun 13-Jan-13 10:56:33

There are a million reasons not to have an affair. Most of which have already been said here.

But you could very easily end up getting badly hurt. You might not think it now but you probably would.

And don't do that to another woman, I know it's her 'd'h, so it's ulitimately his responsibility to cheat on his wife, and if it's not you it will be someone else, but don't be that person. Have more respect for yourself and for his wife (and his child). If he wants to cheat then that's his perogative but don't let it be with you.

Xales Sun 13-Jan-13 10:59:12

Isn't it sad that in today's society people ask what is the horror stories and worse cases of what could happen to them if they did something rather than just say not going there because I could potentially be party to causing devastating pain and heart break to another person and their child sad

You are supposed to have your own moral high ground that even if not committed to someone else yourself would stop you from wanting to be a party to causing this.

navada Sun 13-Jan-13 11:00:06

I don't agree that the op could be 'anyone' - more likely he's very attracted to her & likes her company. But anyone who cheats on their partner is not a great catch - whatever the outcome.

EbbNFlow Sun 13-Jan-13 11:04:14

What Morris said

Viviennemary Sun 13-Jan-13 11:06:02

I don't think the OP could be anybody because he is obviously attracted to her. But if she passes on this 'golden opportunity' the next person who comes along that he is attracted to might not. And let's face it this man will cheat on his wife. Quite likely has cheated on his wife in the past and almost certainly will cheat on his wife in the future.

cuillereasoupe Sun 13-Jan-13 11:08:52

Why should women be condemned as slappers because men fancy them?

FFS, I'm not saying the OP is a slapper. Far from it: I commend her for resisting temptation so far. I'm trying to communicate to her that some men - especially the type likely to cheat on a wife with a young baby - will see her as a slapper. I'm doing this as a way of putting her off this relationship, which is what she asked people to do.

Callyfornication Sun 13-Jan-13 11:10:50

Thanks everyone!

As some of you have pointed out I cant really empathise, so its especially interesting to hear from the people who have been in the same situation as me. Like cheeseandpineapple I do feel conflicted. Dont have any friends with kids or husbands and grew up with my mum and aunt so don't hold great stock in the nuclear family either. I asked my mum about it and she said 'marriages do break down.'

I sort of expected more replies from OWs but I can see why they havent come out of the woodwork.....!

Id like to point out Im not a job-less, morality free warm wet hole of a cumbucket, cheap shag, knob, slut lacking all class and empathy, prize loser, slapper deserving to have my hair torn out, etc, yet wink

Looksgoodingravy Sun 13-Jan-13 11:12:34

Sundae- of course we don't know! but the OP was asking for 'horror stories' so I'm hardly likely to 'fluff it up' for her!

MorrisZapp Sun 13-Jan-13 11:13:35

Yes, why should she be 'anybody'? I'm in a LTR of fourteen years and counting, and I have never cheated on DP. I've come close though, with one guy I know. In fact, I've come close to cheating with that one guy quite a few times over the years. Not because I think he's a slapper and I'd shag anybody. But because even though I'm totally committed to dp, this guy is still v attractive to me (and I to him).

The 'other man' in this case isn't a worthless random, he's somebody I really like and respect. I'm past the danger zone and so is he - we definitely aren't going to cross the line, we both have far too much to lose. But if there was one person at all who could challenge my commitment to my dp, it would be him.

navada Sun 13-Jan-13 11:14:34

That's true viviennemary - cheaters rarely change, but they cheat with people they're attracted to & like being around, otherwise they'd just use prostitutes surely ? - I'm trying to put cally off having an affair with this man, but at the same time I wouldn't want to reduce her to just a 'thing' - I'm sure she's a lovely intelligent woman.

Alittlestranger Sun 13-Jan-13 11:16:12

Do cheaters rarely change? I cheated on a long-term live in-partner when I was in my early 20s and I'm 99% sure I'd never do it again.

noblegiraffe Sun 13-Jan-13 11:17:09

You didn't sleep with him when you had the opportunity, you have posted on here asking for reasons not to sleep with him. It seems you don't want to have sex with a married man with a baby at home so you need to set him straight right now (the text involving the key words relating to harassment seems ideal) otherwise he will simply keep working on you until he has ground down your principles and you acquiesce.

WinkyWinkola Sun 13-Jan-13 11:18:44

So if you're 23, you didn't use your brain? You were devoid of any moral consideration just because you fancied someone?

Steeeeeeeper learning curve than most there.

The op sounds like she's got her head screwed wrt this chap. 6 bottles of wine though. Bl**dy hell - I wouldn't remember a thing from the night before. In fact, the guy is probably convinced you did have sex with him even though he can't remember! grin

WinkyWinkola Sun 13-Jan-13 11:20:27

What I'm saying is that youth isn't necessarily a valid excuse for going to bed with someone who is married, your senior at work etc.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sun 13-Jan-13 11:27:34

Hi op. Perhaps it would help to think of it like this . . .

This bloke is obviously a player and i doubt very much that you are the only one he tries it on with, he may well be being unfaithful to his wife on a regular basis. Don't believe him if he says its you, you're special (Im sure you are obviously!) but that's just what they say to get you to shag them.

So with him being like that its pretty clear that he would of tried it on with whichever woman was sent on the work trip with him, and if next time you couldn't make it and another woman did he would probably try it with her as well.

Does that make you want to tell him to fuck off, not sleep with him and keep your self respect? I wish someone had pointed things like that out to me when i was younger sad

MorrisZapp Sun 13-Jan-13 11:27:44

I can only speak for myself, but when I was 23 and full of beer, I wasn't looking for high morals in my bedmates. I fancied who I fancied. I don't remember shagging any married men but presumably they wouldn't have told me if they were anyway.

I know that not everybody has a period like this in their youth. Some people are very clear about only sleeping with people they respect etc, from a young age. But in my peer group, our twenties were about having fun, and living one weekend at a time.

WinkyWinkola Sun 13-Jan-13 11:34:32

But if you'd known a man was married at that tender age, would you have baulked or not? Or would you not have cared less? Just interested to know.

And I'm not sure it's about having fun at 23 - lots of people still clearly are having a great time, living one weekend at a time! <<wistful>>

AViewfromtheFridge Sun 13-Jan-13 12:10:33

Lots of good advice on this thread - there are some very wise women in the world. FWIW, I have been/am in a similar situation with a guy I work with. If we'd met a few years earlier... who knows. But we didn't. And even though we've had a few drunken self-indulgent conversations, ultimately you have to respect the fact that he loved another woman enough to marry her. To actually stand there and promise to forsake all others. Despite the fact that nothing has happened, it's still messed with my head for the past couple of years.

Be the bigger person, do the right thing, respect the sisterhood.

badinage Sun 13-Jan-13 13:29:35

I think this thread is straying off the point a bit with its references to married blokes who care about the OW as an individual. Obviously that happens in some affairs, but we're not discussing affairs in general are we?

That's highly unlikely in this case isn't it?

A married man with a baby at home who makes a pass at a drunken younger colleague when they are in a hotel away from home and then pesters her after her refusal, really doesn't sound like someone who cares for the OP as a person - or women in general for that matter. Even if a lot of flirting had gone on (which happens) the decent thing to have done would have been to make sure she was safely back in her room - not try to take advantage of a situation when consent is dubious.

Glimmerberry Sun 13-Jan-13 13:52:16

This guy is going to shag someone. With little doubt, a man who, with a baby at home, chases after a work colleague 10 years younger than him, is eventually going to find someone willing to shag him.

And yes, you could say "well, he's the one who's married, not me". But it's a cop out. He's responsible for what he does, but you are still responsible for you. You know he's married and you know he's looking for someone willing to meet his wants for a while. Don't be that person, noone with any decency or self-respect wants to be that person. No matter how you try to rationalise it. Leave it to some other fool.

Or imagine yourself standing in front of his wife in 6 months, with her asking why you did this to her family and think about how pathetic it will sound to say, "but he's the one who is married, not me".

JuliaSqueezer Sun 13-Jan-13 16:12:27

Please don't under-estimate the knock-on effects an affair can have. The main players are in the midst of it but it also becomes impossible for family and friends not to get dragged in and the fall-out can go on for years.

Best case scenario for you; that he leaves his wife and baby? how would you feel then about being introduced to his parents? they're hardly going to welcome you with open arms.
Also kiss goodbye to any long weekend lie-ins, he'll be picking up his son from the ex-wife and you'll be spending the day trying to entertain him.

Worst case scenario - here's one for you; a friend of mine was having on-going marriage problems, he suspected his wife was seeing someone else, she told him he was being paranoid and jealous blah, blah, blah.
He killed himself sad

Unless this guy has a gold-plated ten-incher do yourself a favour and walk away. Even if he has got a gold-plated ten-incher it's still sloppy seconds isn't it?

badinage Sun 13-Jan-13 16:35:10

Just re-reading your last post OP, are you saying that because you didn't have a father in your own life, you don't feel it's such a big deal if men leave their families?

See, I've come across quite a few OW in my time and thinking back, most of them had 'daddy issues' of some sort. Either he buggered off at the start and was never known, left for an OW, was dismissive and impossible to please or encouraged a daughter to compete with her mum for his affections. I'm sure I've read this somewhere too.

SundaeGirl Sun 13-Jan-13 16:55:10

All OW have Daddy issues?! They don't.

Why the need for this weak armchair psychology? It just seemsfor some of you it is too impossible to imagine that they are well balanced but made mistakes/fancied the wrong guy, etc.

cuillereasoupe Sun 13-Jan-13 17:04:57

I knew a woman who committed suicide in similar circumstances, Julia.

How's this for a worst-case scenario?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Broderick

fuzzywuzzy Sun 13-Jan-13 17:08:41

Because you will be instrumental in breaking up a family or causing at least one person who has done nothing to you a great deal of pain.

Do you want a cheater for a boyfriend?

His child and therefore his ex will always be in your lives (if you end up together).

You can do better.

badinage Sun 13-Jan-13 17:48:27

Er...I didn't use the word 'all' - you did.

I said that of the OW I've met - and some of them have been close mates incidentally (who agree) - most of them have had Daddy issues and I gave examples of what those issues were. It struck me that the OP didn't have a paternal influence growing up and I wondered whether that could be a factor.

Personally, I think the personality trait that distinguishes someone who's prepared to be an OW - and someone who's not - is selfishness. But it's not that surprising that a 23 year-old with no marriages in her close circle is a bit selfish, which is why I think the advice that's more likely to get through appeals to her selfishness and the fall-out that's likely to happen to her and no-one else.

Looksgoodingravy Sun 13-Jan-13 19:09:13

Of course there's fancying the 'wrong guy' and then there's shagging the 'wrong guy'!

And of course we all make mistakes but how many of those mistakes ruin another persons life!

It takes two. The ow contributes to the wife's pain if she KNEW there was a wife. Totally selfish!

We can all fancy other people and that's where it stays!

Op, do yourself a favour and find yourself a nice, single bloke. There'll be plenty around. You can also find plenty of 'horror stories' to read on here throughout the Relationship board.

My advice is don't do it because just as you start to get hooked and want more he will go back to the wife and baby and you will be left hurt, used and broken. In 99.9% of cases that is what happens.

It is easy to disregard the hurt it would cause his wife and child because you don't know them, and will believe the lies that he will tell you (marriage dead, no sex, living parallel lives, blah blah blah) but if you look at the outcome for you, you are less likely to do something stupid.

I'm a wife in this exact scenario. The OW was devastated, the hurt the affair caused me will never heal, and my DH has learnt a pretty stark lesson in life. No one has come out of it well.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Mon 14-Jan-13 10:58:06

Badinage. I slept with a married man when i was a teenager and i would say i possibly have issues like you mention. My dad was there but not really involved and in a world of his own, never in his life actually listened to anything i had to say. My mum was a bit like that too but for different reasons. There were reasons for it with both of them, conditions and medications etc but i think it had the effect all the same despite them not being able to help it.

I think i just took any attention i could get.

My best friend did similar but worse and she was one whose dad wasn't interested, parents not together, hardly saw him etc.

Sundae. Don't completely dismiss the idea.

Callyfornication Mon 14-Jan-13 17:53:53

SundaeGirl and badinage I didnt grow up with my dad around as parents split when I was a baby but really dont think i have "daddy ishooos". I just fancy the guy. Ive fancied lots of people before and none were married/taken/a father themselves.

badinage Mon 14-Jan-13 19:37:42

Yes and you'll fancy loads of single men again, which is why you really don't need this pile of trouble.

One of the reasons I was suggesting that your lack of father role might have a part to play was because neither you nor your mum seems to think it's a big deal if this bloke's marriage breaks up. Even allowing for the fact that it's not unusual for a 23-year old not to be able to empathise with a woman at home with a baby, it struck me as a peculiarly hard-nosed response and I wondered whether that was down to a resultant belief that families can get by without dads, rather than just cold-hearted selfishness.

So what are you going to do?

Callyfornication Mon 14-Jan-13 20:44:54

I do think babies/families can get by without dads. I do think it's unfortunate but entirely fine, preferable perhaps, if the dad chooses to sleep with other people. I'd far prefer being a single parent to having a husband who sleeps around.

What I'm going to do is avoid being alone with him, and switch areas and client bases. I basically ignored him today and I think he's getting the message as no after-work texts.

Eliza22 Mon 14-Jan-13 21:22:57

If he will leave his wife and baby for another woman, he is likely to leave you, in the future.

Personally, why "share" this man. Find someone who is available to you, not someone who is a lying shite.

Couragedoesntroar Mon 14-Jan-13 21:25:06

Very very well put worcestershire. That's all. I'm sorry your wisdom has been so hard earned. Mine too, was agony.

bluebiscuit Tue 15-Jan-13 12:20:21

I see that your opinion is that babies/families can get by without dads, indeed yours did as a child. My parents are divorced as well.

However, that is worlds apart from knowingly and actively having a hand in the destruction of a family/marriage, which you would be doing if you were the OW. There's no justification for being an OW. It's a shitty thing to do, no matter how it's dressed up. This is not to underestimate the cheating husband's disgraceful behaviour- just because he is doing a huge wrong, it doesn't mean to say that the OW's actions are ok.

Dahlen Tue 15-Jan-13 12:45:34

Forget the wife and baby for a minute and pretend this man is single. You should still steer well clear of him. You were significantly drunk that night and he enticed you back to his hotel room. Legally you were incapable of giving consent. There's a word for that. You were lucky to have got away. Since then, he;s been pestering you with messages.

That's not the actions of a sweet man, that's the actions of a sleazy sex pest who sees you as nothing more than a conquest.

MaryPoppinsBag Tue 15-Jan-13 13:52:46

One day when you grow up and have a family of your own you will understand how very very badly you and he are behaving.

OP have a little respect for yourself, he just wants to shag you. I very much doubt he'd leave his wife and baby for you. Please show some respect for his wife too. It is such a disgusting thing to even be contemplating.

DontmindifIdo Tue 15-Jan-13 14:20:54

OP - how about some 'selfish' rather than 'greater good' arguments not to have an affair:

1) This man has a lot of other commitments. He has work, a wife, a child. Even if long term he leaves said wife and child, at the moment, he's not decided to do that so a lot of his time, energy and emotions are being poured into them. You will only get the 'scraps' of his time and energy that are left. Your relationship will have to be fitted into what he has spare. You might get jealous after a while an try to demand more time,but you know he's got a valid reason for never making you the centre of his world, you're just the mistress. If you become more later, that doesn't change the fact that for now, your relationship will just be fitted around everything else.

You will be starting a relationship accepting you are secondary to his other commitments/interests, this is a very, very hard dynamic to change later on.

2) Don't underestimate the general bad feeling towards "other woman" in a work based environment - if it all comes out (and it will, I would put money on other colleagues having already noticed and starting gossiping about your flirting), it will be yours, not his career that's damaged. Woman (rightly or wrongly) seen as a bit of a tart round the office are not promoted.

I have also worked places where when affairs have become known, the company have insisted one of them leave - it is never the more senior person who leaves, if he is a decade older than you, I assume he is the senior one. You will be the one encouraged to leave. If you stay, as said, you will have to be 10X better than anyone else to get promoted, and any achievement will be put down to you shagging a senior staff member.

3) don't underestimate the general bad feeling towards other woman outside of work - you might find you are both rather shunned by people you previously thought of as good friends. Don't underestimate how much it will hurt him to have his family and friends cut him out. He might blame you, not his behaviour (in fact, someone as selfish as him probably will blame everyone else but himself) - which takes us to:

4) he is displaying incredibly selfish behaviour - people are rarely selfish in only one part of their lives.

5) it would be very very hard for you to leave him. The narrative of your relationship will be that he sacrificed everything to be with you. (that he wanted to do it will be glossed over). Don't underestimate how hard it will be if you create a "us against the world" mentality (which you would have to to ride out the storm once it gets public) to walk away from a man who has given you so much if you then later decide after a year or two that he's not the one for you.

6) if, when it comes down to it, he picks his family over you (and it doesn't mean if his wife finds out, he might just get bored of having an affair and decide that he's rather be with them than the hassle of being with you once the innital excitment wears off), you will have to work with him. You will have to either grieve the ending of a relationship without having to tell anyone/keeping a brave face up, or tell people, risk hearing "well, what did you expect?" or being seen as a complete bitch for outing him once he'd dumped you - making you look a bit bunny boiler. You don't want to be that woman.

DontmindifIdo Tue 15-Jan-13 14:22:54

oh and I missed off:

7) he tried to take advantage of you when drunk. That's never a good sign.

cuillereasoupe Tue 15-Jan-13 16:07:34

babies/families can get by without dads

With all due respect, that's not your call to make in this instance. It's the child's mother's.

DontmindifIdo Tue 15-Jan-13 16:09:59

cuillereasoupe - and the dads remember, she's rather assuming he will leave, not just shag her a few times, get it out of his system, dump her and then carry on at home with the wife knowing nothing about it and leaving OP to just get over it.

cuillereasoupe Tue 15-Jan-13 16:11:35

how very very badly you and he are behaving

Actually, I really commend you for taking active steps to avoid finding yourself in the same situation in future OP. Well done!

perfectstorm Tue 15-Jan-13 16:48:32

When you have a baby, you are desperately vulnerable. Your body is pretty much trashed there for a while, you are usually fat and you have a weird apronny bit where your tummy used to be, plus stretchmarks in most cases. Your whole world is completely upside down and who you are and where you belong in it has changed. You are exhausted because caring for a baby is a 24/7 deal - you can't call in sick, even if you want to die, and if the baby is crying at 3 am then you have to get up and see to them, even if they've been doing it on the hour every hour for the past 24. You NEED your baby's other parent to support you and engage with you and to feel that you can, actually, manage this monumental job of actually being totally responsible for another human life. You will never be more vulnerable, or more deserving of your husband's love and support. It's a tough time. A special time, in other ways one of the most joyous, but it is tough. So tough. And to deal with an affair then? My God.

A man who decides to fuck another woman in that time is a total fuckwitting arse. Beneath contempt, tbh. Diddums isn't the centre of his wife's world? Please. Grow the fuck up. A woman who decides to go with that... well. Not exactly overflowing with empathy, is she, to do that to someone. Never mind what the mess could do to that tiny new life. And it will also potentially mean irrevocable damage to the child, should the mother suffer emotionally, because babies gain their security from their mothers, and personally I don't know how much I would have been able to offer my son if my husband had cheated on me then.

You decided not to go with that. You decided the wife and his baby deserve better. Good for you. Please accept that YOU deserve better - this man is not a prize. Unless it's a prize loser.

My husband is a genuine grownup. Our marriage was definitely not in a good way after DS arrived, because I was exhausted and so was he and sleep deprivation makes saints of nobody, but he'd never have had an affair when I was that totally vulnerable. What kind of sociopath would?

Please don't do this. Please. I agree the primary responsibility is with the man who made the vows, but come on. You're an adult. You can't get involved with someone, knowing what that could do to two other people, and knowing how horrible an act it would be, and tell yourself you bear no share of the blame. If you do this, then yes, you are also culpable. Your friends need to grow the fuck up if they are saying anything else. This is a man willing to fuck a woman over as badly as it is possible to do it - why in the world would you decide to assist him?

SundaeGirl Tue 15-Jan-13 17:43:51

^One day when you grow up and have a family of your own you will understand how very very badly you and he are behaving.

OP have a little respect for yourself, he just wants to shag you. I very much doubt he'd leave his wife and baby for you. Please show some respect for his wife too. It is such a disgusting thing to even be contemplating.^

MaryPoppinsBag - did you mean to be so patronising and belittling? The OP is not behaving 'very very badly' ( presumably the double very implies you've had experience of this). The OP is behaving pretty normally. I'm not sure how old you are but think back to when you were 23 - not impossible to fancy people, go drinking and end up in their hotel rooms and be behaving pretty normally?

What you would like her to 'understand' is the different perspective of someone quite a lot older than her, but you limit your credibility by making no effort to acknowledge that she's not some kind of demon. I get that this hurts you and others on this board. However, shrieking repeatedly at different posters that they are just a 'shag' (and worse) is just what you want to believe.

FWIW, the only bloke I know in RL who had an affair while he had a young family DID fall in love and did leave for the OW.

Numberlock Tue 15-Jan-13 17:46:53

I'm glad I don't live in a world where it's 'pretty normal' to sleep with married men...

SundaeGirl Tue 15-Jan-13 17:49:37

That's my point hmm - she didn't sleep with him. Do you think the OP is behaving unusually, Numberlock?

Numberlock Tue 15-Jan-13 17:51:26

Yes.

badinage Tue 15-Jan-13 17:56:24

When I was 23 I was to be found telling every married chancer - even the fanciable ones - to fuck the fuck off.

Which is what the OP now seems to be doing, of a fashion.

I don't really understand why anyone would be pushing an agenda that some married men fall in love and leave their wives on this thread, which is about a bloke who tried to bed a woman while she was drunk and then pestered her afterwards.

Unless of course you were/are an OW and like tales of True Love Conquers All.

Which might also just be just what you want to believe wink

SundaeGirl Tue 15-Jan-13 17:58:18

Well, sorry to disappoint you but the OP sounds above average in the moral responsibility stakes.

I'm currently a mature student and this week's gossip is as follows:

Bert has older woman fetish and after last week's pub quiz pulled a 47yo
Alice is in lurve with the batman at X club but he's got a girlfriend, she's texted him and he's coming to the party on Saturday
John is away with his wife til mid term but still texting Rachel after they snogged after exams

That's from the last 3 days! (Names changed etc) All protagonists 21-25 (older woman excepting).

Deluded to think anything else.

SundaeGirl Tue 15-Jan-13 18:00:21

Badinage, I have no idea why you are winking at me. Do you assume I'm an OP just because I'm sounding off about the endless generalisations?

MidnightMasquerader Tue 15-Jan-13 18:06:58

Ahem, OP when I was your age, I could've had anyone. I wouldn't've settled for someone else's virtually (to me!) middle-aged sloppy seconds.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but are pickings a wee bit slim that someone like this is even on your radar?

StuffezLaBouche Tue 15-Jan-13 18:29:18

Have to say, I always find it amusing when people say "I'm glad I don't live in a world where it's normal for people to XYZ."
Er, yes you do live in that world. People you KNOW and encounter every day will be in this kind of similar situation.

I don't think the OP will be restraining herself for any greater good reasons - in fact the "meh - families can survive without dads" arguments was fairly irritating.

But OP, if you DO do anything with this man, you will most likely to become the laughing stock of your workplace. Men who act like him CANNOT keep these things to themselves.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 19:11:52

perfectstorm - your post sums up perfectly why I DIDN'T do it and DON'T plan to, and when I'm married, I'd hope my husband is like yours. If he's not though, and he wants to sleep around, I'm sure he will.

StuffezLaBouche I can assure you the only reason we weren't having sex today is because of 'the greater good.' I'm 23 and recently ended a long-term relationship; I'd like to have sex with someone fun and hot without it developing. I only restrained myself because he has a wife. Now, thanks to this thread, I'm thinking of other reasons to continue to do so.

MidnightMasquerader no, pickings aren't slim. I have plenty of other options. Hope you've kept your fantastic looks and personality.

Numberlock I don't live in a world where it's pretty normal to sleep with married men. I barely know any married men and nor do my friends. Our circles don't often mix. You'll note I DIDN'T sleep with a married man. I can assure you that in my circles (post-uni, good jobs, young and single) I am quite normal.

MaryPoppinsBag sorry, but I just want to shag him too. I don't want him to leave his wife and child. Does that mean I don't respect him or does that only apply when you're dissing women?

SundaeGirl did you see a thread yesterday where a married middle-aged woman was considering sleeping with a married man? She didn't get called a cumbucket or a slag or anywhere near these responses, and in my eyes her moral ground was much more dubious. It's sad but obvious that this forum is incredibly ageist. I think a lot of people who are violently disagreeing with you either have experience of being a cheated wife or have never had casual sex for fun, or both.

MidnightMasquerader Tue 15-Jan-13 19:15:58

So there you go. I bet you're gorgeous.

I bet you can do way better than this bloke, even just for a roll in the hay.

It's not worth it. Honestly, it's not. It's the sort of thing you can look back on from your death bed and be proud that you didn't do. smile

StuffezLaBouche Tue 15-Jan-13 19:25:14

sorry, but I just want to shag him too. I don't want him to leave his wife and child. Does that mean I don't respect him or does that only apply when you're dissing women?

Yes it does mean you don't respect him. You just want to fuck him without giving any respect to his life choices - to the people he is bound to. You don't respect him because you don't give a shit what happens were his wife to divorce him and take him for every penny he's got.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 19:36:48

MidnightMasquerader one of the first things I thought the next day was that I was glad not to have that on my conscience. Despite most posters decrying my lack of morals, I don't think it's right to sleep with a married man.

StuffezLaBouche I genuinely don't feel that's my responsibility; it's his. I appreciate your opinion.

StuffezLaBouche Tue 15-Jan-13 19:41:06

You're right - it's not. It's his. But speaking as someone who's been on the receiving end of a cheat AND had sex with someone who was attached, (yup, willing to admit) I can say both experiences will leave you feeling empty, stupid and generally a complete twat. Pretty sure you will have sex with him, and at the start it will seem exciting, you will be so proud of your ability to "compartmentalize," you will think yourself very emotionally mature that you can "fuck without feelings."
It never, ever, ever works out well though.

SundaeGirl Tue 15-Jan-13 19:43:26

The prism in which so many posters are viewing this through is a domestic vision of 30ish to 50ish women, many of whom have had their husbands do the dirty on them. They might have experience of men cheating but they've forgotten life outside. The idea that the OP will remember this on her death bed is laughable!

SundaeGirl Tue 15-Jan-13 19:44:51

stuffez - it seems pretty unlikely that the OP will sleep with him, actually. She didn't after a bucketful of booze and has just confirmed she's not planning to.

Dozer Tue 15-Jan-13 19:49:11

hmm

StuffezLaBouche Tue 15-Jan-13 19:50:13

I'm not in that prism, SundaeGirl and I think she will. As she said above - "I just want to shag him." You sound like you have a lot of experience (not personally necessarily, but in people you know!) in drunken shagging and the possibilities of cheating.

Is it not possible the OP is saying she won't but might when presented with equal quantities of alcohol and time/opportunity? I don't mind admitting I've had sex with someone I didn't intend to when blurred by booze!

HecateWhoopass Tue 15-Jan-13 19:56:46

don't be naive enough to think you're the first one he's gone after.

Judging by how he went after you when you were drunk and the fact that he has now started with the texts etc to follow up - In all likelihood, he sniffs round anyone he thinks will give him some.

That's a good reason to not sleep with someone, imo.

A lying, cheating person who thinks it's ok to look one person in the eye and declare their love while trying to get their rocks off with someone else. Can you respect such a person? Can you have sex with someone you have contempt for?

perfectstorm Tue 15-Jan-13 20:03:46

OP, again, good for you. It is hard, when you're very attracted to someone, you're not the one who made vows, and he's all over you. Honestly, though, sounds like you are also dodging a bullet. Affairs can happen to anyone (I've been lucky, and so far neither of us have, but you can never predict the future) but I do think men who cheat when there is a baby in the house are particularly pathetic.

SundaeGirl, I never cheated on anyone. I always worked on the basis that it was done to me when I was late teens and early twenties and it hurt very badly. Why help someone do that to another person? And actually, the only people I knew to have affairs were either arseholes, or very insecure and vulnerable. Decent and sane people tended to steer clear, because life is too short for that sort of drama. Not everyone's life experiences will mirror your own, and that of your social circle, shocking though that concept is to you. It's ironic that you are smugly congratulating yourself on how open and honest you are, when you are actually blind to the fact you're as much part of a grouping as we all are.

MidnightMasquerader Tue 15-Jan-13 20:10:34

"The idea that the OP will remember this on her death bed is laughable!"

Well, it's obviously not laughable to Cally, given her most recent post. And she's the main one who matters on this thread. wink

SundaeGirl Tue 15-Jan-13 20:13:26

Cally - I can't find the thread you've mentioned - can you link?

PErfectS - I've looked back through my posts and genuinely can't see anything smug or congratulatory, or anything that implies I think my social group will be indicative of every type of person?

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 20:20:26

SundaeGirl here y'are http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1658911-should-I-have-an-affair

badinage Tue 15-Jan-13 20:23:00

Oh what bollocks....

The only 'prism' I'm looking through is the one that relates to the thread about an older married bloke with a baby trying to pester a drunken younger colleague for a shag in company paid-for accommodation.

Not through the 'prism' of some men fall in love and leave their wives which although I fully agree, has got nothing to do with this thread. The OP has confirmed that she wouldn't want that anyway and there was no reason to think she would!

Not through the 'prism' of a cheated wife either or of someone who hasn't enjoyed casual sex in her twenties.

As for comparing responses between threads, I didn't post on the thread mentioned but it's really tiresome when this allegation is made. It's only a valid comparison if:

1) exactly the same posters have been on both threads and no others and
2) if the OPs are exactly the same people.

Posters' responses vary greatly according to the language and demeanour of the OP and no Mumsnet thread will ever be the same because each thread will have different people responding.

OP I hope you'll stick to your guns and I'm really glad you think it would be wrong to shag a married man. But apart from all that, the main point for me in this thread is that even if he'd been single, consent would have been dubious because you were drunk. The fact that he's married with a baby at home and you're presumably a junior colleague, just adds to his sleaziness.

I don't suppose there's only one poster on this thread who mixes with people in their twenties (either their kids, their nieces/nephews, at college/uni, their colleagues or their students) and therefore suspect many of us can say with equal confidence that not all 33 year-olds are sleazebags and not every 23-year old will shag a married colleague without a second thought. Those 'generalisations' are absurd.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 20:24:22

PS Hecate the texts, presents, buying lunches, going for meals/evenings out, making mixtapes, extra help at work, etc started way before the getting drunk. We have been close for about 3 months. Despite that I do agree I am probably not the first person since marrying that he's fancied.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 20:28:42

PPS badinage he was just as drunk and if we had sex, it would have been awkward and morally wrong, but not rape. In terms of responsibility I'm his senior (he's a specialist and hasn't been with the firm long).

HecateWhoopass Tue 15-Jan-13 20:31:37

Yes. I bet you're not the first person he's gone after.

And he's probably been successful.

I am not being horrible, just realistic, when I say the following -

If you think that this was a good and loving, faithful and devoted partner and then husband until he met you, at which point he found himself overcome with passion and was compelled to pursue you, forsaking his marriage vows... you are fooling yourself.

He'll be dipping his wick far and wide.

Badvoc Tue 15-Jan-13 20:32:46

He is a cheating bastard.
You are deluded and your mates are immoral bitches.
HTH

Badvoc Tue 15-Jan-13 20:33:46

Oh...it's just sooo....predictable isnt it!?
I bet his wife doesn't understand him does she op?
Diddums.
Poor him.

pickledsiblings Tue 15-Jan-13 20:35:12

OP, well done for starting this thread and for saying 'no'. I think you should spell it out for him - tell him that you made a mistake going back to his room and that you won't be doing that again.

You deserve better btw.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 20:40:47

Hecate I'm sure you're right - I haven't disagreed with that, at all. I just... I don't think he's a beacon of morality or a great husband or person, just fun to be around. I am under no illusions. Some of the most fun people I know are irresponsible.

Badvoc it's achingly cliched grin. I've never discussed his wife or child with him; tbh I don't discuss wives or children with anyone from work as I don't find wives and children very interesting topics.

SundaeGirl Tue 15-Jan-13 20:41:56

Badvoc - what motivates a post like yours?

SanityClause Tue 15-Jan-13 20:44:18

There are two people having an affair at work.

Currently, he is very ill in hospital. He has been in intensive care.

She has no way of finding out how he is, except as a colleague. She cannot sit with him in hospital (next to his wife?). She cannot show her emotions about what is happening.

I do feel very sorry for her, although it is her own silly fault.

It this the kind of thing you want to hear?

HecateWhoopass Tue 15-Jan-13 20:50:12

Yes. I'm sure they are.

Not fun for the people they hurt though.

I don't know, I am just a firm believer in treating people how you would want to be treated. In the background of any 'fun' that is to be had is a woman with a small baby who doesn't deserve some cheating louse for a husband.

That would just knock all the fun out of it for me. I don't think I would be able to forget what he was doing to someone he claimed to love, long enough to have any fun with him.

I'd just be there looking at him and thinking, your wife thinks you love her...

Dozer Tue 15-Jan-13 21:16:55

Reason not to have an affair: he made you a mix tape!

What fanciable 30-something man still makes mix tapes? grin

you haven't been "close": he has been friendly so that he can try to shag you.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 21:18:14

Hecate I'm pretty sure that woman with a small baby already has a cheating louse for a husband and nothing I do will change that.

redbunnyfruitcake Tue 15-Jan-13 21:19:22

I just can't help thinking how incredibly selfish all of this is. On the part of the OP and the married man. Regardless of who is to blame for marriage break ups, who should be behaving themselves or whatever other thing there is to focus on in this situation the overriding sentiment is the utter fucking misery this situation is going to cause.

HecateWhoopass Tue 15-Jan-13 21:23:11

Yes.

but you won't be a part of it. If you reread what I said, it was not that without you, he would not cheat.

anyway, it's clear that you will do what you will do.

I just feel so sorry for his wife, with that thing for a husband. Whether it's you or not, it'll be someone. Probably several someones.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 21:23:31

Dozer innit, massive cliche on the mixtape. However I disagree on your second point. If I thought every man being friendly to me was only doing so for sex I'd be a saaaad, lonely person. Plenty of men have made me mixtapes grin

MidnightMasquerader Tue 15-Jan-13 21:24:43

Surely you can do better than a cheating louse of a man, Cally? Even if his wife can't...?

You've said you can already on this thread, so prove it.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 21:27:36

MidnightMasquerader do better for what? To associate with, to be friends with, to have sex with, to have an affair with, to fall in love with? I'm not repulsed by him - maybe I should be, but I'm not.

Arseface Tue 15-Jan-13 21:28:54

This kind of thing happened to me a lot when I was in my early twenties and I remember feeling slightly disappointed and a bit disgusted. Loved the sophisticated intellectual banter I'd get from thirtysomething men at work but wasn't looking to shag them. Made me feel quite stupid for mistaking their interest for professional respect, or friendship.

I learned to recognise when it was going a bit too far and nip it in the bud.
I was, and remain, annoyed that it was my responsibility to do this as a younger woman.

You sound lovely and way out of this bloke's league. I doubt you'd look twice at him if you hadn't been thrown together for work.
Took him quite a while to take the hint that you weren't interested. Quite apart from the cheating, he sounds like hard work and a bit of a twat. The absolute opposite of a fun shag!

You dodged a bullet there.

MidnightMasquerader Tue 15-Jan-13 21:33:52

You can do better to have a dalliance with. confused Nothing more, nothing less. You're sloppy seconds if you go with him. Even if just for a one-off, torrid, roll in the sack.

I have to say that I think your forum of choice for advice on this is a slightly odd one... grin

DontmindifIdo Tue 15-Jan-13 21:43:49

OP - be selfish back, you are in a very vunerable position right now, you work with this man. You will be the object of gossip. People will have noticed. Lunches, dinners, longing looks, in jokes, just a little tooo much attention paid to him...

Really as a woman it's hard to be taken seriously in a lot of jobs, without making yourself seem like the office joke. Step away, start acting a bit more professionally at work. No 1-to-1 lunches with married men, no little dates. You need to try to act a little more professionally.

Personally, I'd start looking for a new job. You are going to stall there.

redbunnyfruitcake Tue 15-Jan-13 21:44:22

I agree with the strange choice of forum but from one of your posts you made it clear you were interested to hear from OW as well as the general public. From my experience of having an emotional affair, you are already having an affair. The emotional component of an affair usually precedes the sexual and is as potent and damaging as the actual sexual affair. Sharing jokes, getting drunk together, going to his hotel room, the giving of intimate gifts such as tapes is all crossing the line. Ok you haven't kissed or had sex but that is just the icing on the cake. The really exciting stuff is the stuff you are currently entertaining and is just as deceitful as the physical stuff. Don't keep kidding yourself Cally, if you are going to sleep with this man just go ahead and do it but be prepared for the consequences. If not, back off, change teams, change jobs, give him the cold shoulder, become ultra professional whatever it takes to give him the message that you are not available.

MaryPoppinsBag Tue 15-Jan-13 21:46:52

Sundaegirl
I meant to be patronising.

I just don't get why the OP needs to start a thread on Mumsnet about why she shouldn't shag a married man with a baby.

She knows why. She should just tell him to fuck off, stop accepting gifts, lunch, meals out and mix tapes who has tapes these days anyway and she should stop flirting with him.

I get that this hurts you and others on this board. However, shrieking repeatedly at different posters that they are just a 'shag' (and worse) is just what you want to believe.

This hasn't happened to me BTW I just don't think the OP is as innocent as she is making out.

CheeseStrawWars Tue 15-Jan-13 21:48:29

He probably fancies himself more than he fancies you.

Don't do it - you'll look back in years to come and be glad you swerved an unpleasant mess. Find someone you can have harmless fun with, if that's what you want. Fun with him would not be harmless.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 22:17:46

I chose the forum because I've read heartbreaking tales about infidelity here and my friends and family would have no problem with me doing it (/him). I wanted to hear other opinions and be talked out of it, because the reason I didn't do it is because I don't think, personally and on some level, that it's right to have sex with a married man. Whilst I've had many genuine responses that have made me think more deeply and laterally about the options available, I've had some sad, misogynistic responses that have made me care less, frankly. If being part of the 'vow of sisterhood' makes you want to tear the hair out of a woman who owes you nothing over a man who's sworn to love and honour you forever, count me out of the club. If a husband has an affair, it's because he wants to.

MaryPoppinsBag Tue 15-Jan-13 22:53:30

I don't think it's the 'vow of sisterhood' that makes you want to tear the hair out of the OW, it's probably more like blind rage, disappointment, thoughts about your children's future and what might have been.

And I don't think the anger would be limited to the OW.

Callyfornication Tue 15-Jan-13 23:04:08

Well, obviously! If it was limited to the OW, there'd be something seriously wrong with the 'W.'

MaryPoppinsBag Tue 15-Jan-13 23:11:20

Just tell him to fuck off.

Are you going to?

badinage Tue 15-Jan-13 23:20:50

Hey Cally. It's water off a duck's back to me if you find sleazebags like this guy fun and interesting - or if you think it's okay to flirt and consider having sex with junior colleagues. I'd say your personal and professional judgement were off kilter, but that's for you to work out in what will hopefully be a long life and career.

I agree that no-one has an affair unless he or she wants to and agree that chances are, if it wasn't you, it would be someone else.

I'm just so glad I always valued my professionalism at work more than the prospect of an illicit relationship conducted during working hours. And identified with women too much to be party to a bloke shitting on them from a great height.

HillaryClitoris Tue 15-Jan-13 23:23:53

Word from a pro slapper...

HillaryClitoris Tue 15-Jan-13 23:27:07

Identified too much with women, you lady are full of shite.

gingerpig Tue 15-Jan-13 23:44:11

this has probably been said (haven't read whole thread). but the single biggest reason not to go down this path is that it will alter your view of marriage, trust and fidelity irrevocably. the wife will be your victim, you will pity her, and there will always be that knowledge in the back of your head that it could be you one day. it's not really about hurting the wife or children, you're just hurting yourself.

Damash12 Wed 16-Jan-13 00:00:32

You've fallen for the flattery, the charm, the attention. Being away from home in a hotel, in a different country with a few bottles of wine, yep a recipe for a few hours of fun.. Until after, when he's done the deed, got what he wanted cos poor mrs is home covered in baby poo and wants nothing more than to sleep. But hey the outcome will be either more of the same at every trip but by then you'll start feeling used (cos ya will be) you'll want more and wont get it and you'll hear every sob story going. Or alternatively it will be the last trip he attends or he'll be bloody rude on every other and again you'll feel used (cos you have been). Not a pretty picture is it?? Laugh off the last trip, humour him and walk away with your head held high and just know you had a lucky escape. Hope I replied before your next trip! Oh and please be prepared for that trip... I bet he will be.

HillaryClitoris Wed 16-Jan-13 00:13:37

stories upon stories... this girl is fucked for marriage in the future and this is the way today, more than half of marriages resulting in divorce, two thirds of Fathers losing contact with children after seperation or divorce, the welfare state and feminist doctrintation... there you go kids, it's fucked.

Monty27 Wed 16-Jan-13 00:35:17

Well said Ginger [applause]

OP marriage should always be respected, whether it's yours or someone else's.

Lack of respect is a cause of damage to many things including marriage.

Self respect, respect for others, if it's non existent then nothing is treated with value. Its really sad.

howdoo Wed 16-Jan-13 00:42:29

Hillary, did you mean to be quite so offensive?

Cally strikes me as taking things on board, not getting defensive/aggressive and she DIDN'T SHAG HIM.

QueenofPlaids Wed 16-Jan-13 00:42:41

I had a huge amount written before DP's iPad ate it can't wait for new laptop

A lot has been mentioned upthread. I can't give you an OW perspective in full I'm afraid, but DP and I did get together when I was close to marrying another man. It's all a it grey, but essentially I cheated in a relatively small way (drunken kiss) fessed up before actually 'cheating' iykwim and we split. There was a bit of complexity around open relationships, but we decided that wouldn't work for us.

It's all good, we're getting married. Ex-DP is married and we are friends as a family, but that took a good while. In a bizarre way, I'd probably do more for them than vice versa because of my guilt. More than 10 years on I accept that this is properly weird.

Is there a point? Possibly. I have a horrible Catholic guilt system despite my atheistic tendencies, so I do at times feel terribly guilty for things in the past that others may shelve. I suggest that the fact you mention your morals may place you in the same position.

Finally it doesn't seem like you think this is the love of our life. If your really thought that, I'd be having a lot of honest conversations without shagging. I feel a bit glasshouse saying this, but DP, ExDP and I were all early to mid-20s when our 'drama' happened and we had no DC, which I suspect is the biggest difference. TBH at your age, (unless you are deeply drive by children) unless they are fantastic I'd be avoiding people with existing DC anyway.

HoHoHoNoYouDont Wed 16-Jan-13 00:43:03

Sexual tension -v- Common Sense.

Been there, done it, was a guy at work too. Sexual tension tends to win most of the time. I haven't read the whole thread so no doubt I am repeating what others have said but please try your hardest not to go there. It will not end well. Oh yes, it will feel like fun for a while but inevitably ends in disaster all round.

I could write a book on this.

Monty27 Wed 16-Jan-13 00:49:59

Queen you don't have a catholic guilt system

Don't confuse that with morales.

Monty27 Wed 16-Jan-13 00:50:28

*morals ?

QueenofPlaids Wed 16-Jan-13 01:11:12

Monty27 - please don't tell me what I do and do not have thank you very much.

I don't know what you are getting at tbh. The Catholicism I was raised in had a lot more things one ought to feel guilty for and a greater degree of shame / penance than the world sees. The fact that I am an atheist is largely irrelevant to the current argument.

That said, I don't want to hijack the OP's thread. What I was really trying to get at is that your behaviour may have to pass through multiple filters and your 'less horny' filter is likely to have a poor view of sleeping with married men based on your posts.

Monty27 Wed 16-Jan-13 01:19:58

Possibly I was brought up the same as you.

I'm sorry if I offended you in any way. I'm older now and have worked through my upbringing. I've brought my dc's through the RC church and education, they're older teens now and very broad minded etc. They had my take on it, I was always of the belief that, one day they would make their own minds up, but that was the way I chose to raise them. They are quite at liberty as adults, and I can assure you they are not damaged in any way. -and I'm not jealous honest grin

Oh this is a hijack.

I do apologise though if I offended you, it was just how I worked through stuff myself.

thanks

MidnightMasquerader Wed 16-Jan-13 03:28:42

"I chose the forum because I've read heartbreaking tales about infidelity here"

So do the right thing, then. Or not. 'tevs, really...

I dunno, it's all a bit drama-llama, angsty, high school, attention-seeky, at this point. And I'm feeding it....!

Good luck, Cally. smile

MrsHoarder Wed 16-Jan-13 03:44:10

Because sleeping with someone you work with is liable to screw up your career

Because you would waste time on someone who isn't available when if you want children you should already be looking for someone suitable to raise them with.

Because if he's willing to sleep with you with a wife and baby at home then he's barely worth wiping your shoes on.

redbunnyfruitcake Wed 16-Jan-13 06:43:24

Yes Midnight I agree. The sad thing is the OP asked for honest opinions and got some. Not everybody is gong to be as generous as the OP might like especially those women whose families have been torn apart by such self centred, immature behaviour. Yes the OP is young and deserves to make mistakes but it's not fair to expect women who have been hurt in this manner not to have some pretty strong reactions. She was treated very well on this forum by women who are obviously being objective and wise. It could have been a whole lot worse. Throwing opinions back at posters as misogynistic generalisations proves that this poster has already made up her mind about her place in 'the sisterhood' and it seems to fall on the side of those poor erring men who just cannot control themselves.

Looksgoodingravy Wed 16-Jan-13 08:31:59

The OP asked for 'horror stories' stating that the 'sexual tension was high' and that she 'wouldn't guarantee things wouldn't happen if there were a next time' so she got those opinions from some posters! THAT'S what the original thread was about!

I knew the difference between right and wrong well before I was 23 but then we're all different and whether you like it or not you would be partly responsible for the break up of a marriage if you take this further.

DontmindifIdo Wed 16-Jan-13 08:33:31

OP - you really need to get your CV updated and out there. No way you haven't already been noticed in the office. It's amazing how people think they have been discreet but really everyone knows. Thing is, even if you don't do anything now, the effect on your repuation is pretty much the same - men are never judged as harshly - although he might be assumed to be only trying to pull you to get favours at work if you're senior to him. (that makes you look both slutty and an object of pity, only being shagged for the career benefit for someone else).

It's not right that woman usually are judged harder in a work situation for sleeping with colleagues (particularly married ones) but it's a simple fact that in most industries, that's the case.

In the same way if you ever had period pain at work you never mention it, your colleagues who are working mothers will come into work when close to death themselves and will go that extra mile to prove they aren't flaky, if you want to do well long term, you need to be more professional than the boys, not less. You are very, very young, you may not have experienced a lot of the more subtle sexism at work, you might have bought the lie that men and woman are now treated equally in the work place, that's bollocks.

Putting aside the morals of sleeping with a married man, focus on your career path and you need to recognise as a woman, your career is basically made or lost in your 20s, if you want children of your own, how badly your career suffers from that will depend on what level you've got to at that point, what flexibility you've got, how much effort the company puts in to retaining you etc will come down to what you are worth. You can't afford to shove your career onto a slow track for 2-3 years in your mid 20s due to being seen as a bit of a joke in the company. It might be by the time you realise what you've done to your career it's too late.

The phrase "never dip your pen in the company inkwell" comes to mind - that and the one about not pissing on your own doorstep.

Flirtations at work should never lead to one to one lunches and dinners, secret dating and the like. Relationships at work always damage the way you are seen unless they end in a 'happily ever after'. Now you've been linked to one bloke at work (and you will be, people will have noticed!), be linked to another and that's it, game over for your career in that company. If it's the sort of industry where people know each other and gossip, you will be "the girl who worked her way through all the guys at X company" and that reputation will go with you.

Date outsiders from now on.

pickledsiblings Wed 16-Jan-13 09:19:14

Sound like good advice to me DontmindifIdo.

DontmindifIdo - I worked with a very nice girl, who because she had dated (ok slept with) one or two guys from the office was known as 'the office bike' and wasn't taken seriously. It was sad for her. The men in question weren't married either. Sexism in the work place is alive and well.

DontmindifIdo Wed 16-Jan-13 15:02:30

Worsestershiresauce - it's really sad isn't it? The guys in question never get a reputation, or if they do, it's not seen as a bad thing.

Meant to see, even when it's a "happily ever after" (I do know 3 couples who met at work and went on to get married) the assumption from bosses was once they were living together, one of them would start looking for a new job. Always the woman left (although to be fair, in all three, the woman was the more junior person), and it always ended up being a sideways career step at best.

Fairypants Wed 16-Jan-13 17:54:29

Firstly, OP, it sounds like you have your head on straight in terms of keeping out of what can only develop into something awkward.
Secondly, I'd like to try to explain why so much anger is aimed at the OW (or potential OW). Other people may have experienced this differently, however, as the wife in a very similar scenario, I feel such an unbelievable amount of pain that there aren't words. Physical, sickening pain whenever I think about it. It is fairly natural to want to blame someone and to vent but I have to see dh and know all his reasons and issues. I have to have an ongoing relationship with him (even if I left, I'd have to negotiate and talk to the kids about him). I don't and will never know her. It is therefore safe to vent in her direction in a completely hysterical manner without any fear of consequences to her or anyone else. I feel you may have got a bit of a taste of that by association which should at least give you an idea of what people would be like if you actually did something.
Thirdly, a reason not to do it - 'my' OW ended it after days because DH clearly felt so bad about it. That can't have been fun for her and wasn't really worth the fallout to everyone concerned (including her).
Finally, I once worked with a guy who was really fit and really sweet and married with a baby. The real reason we all found him so sweet and attractive was because he was the 'perfect' husband and father. When he got off with one of the girls, the shine went!!
I hope you manage to pull yourself out of this situation. It sounds like you have a plan. smile

Looksgoodingravy Wed 16-Jan-13 19:00:06

Great post by Fairy!

The ripples of deceit spread far and wide.

I wouldn't be surprised if the wife already feels something isn't quite right at home. Maybe she's been told all is well, maybe she's been led to believe it's all in her head? Who knows, but you can at least hold your head up high (if you choose the right path) knowing you weren't a part of the cause of that pain and you would be if this continues.

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