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Boyfriend doesn't want kids - I love him, my heart is breaking - should I leave him?

(234 Posts)
Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 15:14:10

I'm having a meltdown, I hope the lovely people of MN might be able to help me.

My wonderful, loving, gorgeous boyfriend of nearly 3 years doesn't want kids, and we are on the brink of splitting up over it.

A bit of background - He had a vasectomy when in a previous marriage. He has never wanted kids, and has never regretted his decision. Unfortunately, he didn't tell me this when we first met, and actually waited until we had been together over a year before he dropped this bombshell, despite me making it clear I wanted kids in the future.

At that time, he told me that he might be prepared to get it reversed, but needed a little time to think about it. That was a year and a half ago, and since then we have talked, argued, agreed to think about it on and off every few months. We have researched vasectomy reversal surgeons, and I have had to come to terms with the fact that we might be infertile forever (I'm 34 so we don't have a huge amount of time to get things sorted either). In the meantime, we have fallen completely in love, and have had a very happy time together. I can honestly say, I have never been so happy with a partner (apart from this very large problem), and having been through plenty of rubbish relationships, I really don't want to let this one go.

Crunch time has arrived - a few months ago, he told me he was ready to do it, thought he did want kids and would have the reversal operation in January. He saw his GP, and chose a surgeon. I begged him to get it booked so that we didn't argue about it over Christmas... but of course he didn't, and so the subject came up again. He completely melted down, said he didn't want to do it and that if that meant that we would have to split up then so be it.

We have spent the last 2 weeks evaluating our relationship, trying to decide what to do. We love each other, make each other so happy and want to have a future together. But he still doesn't want kids. We have faced the prospect of splitting up, but it makes me so sad to think about it, I basically refused to leave him when it came to it. He is trying to persuade himself to do it, realises what he stands to lose and occasionally thinks he might want kids, agrees that it could be lovely.. but then panics and says he really doesn't want to do it.

I have been trying to persuade him - he'd make a wonderful father, we are financially secure, no issues at all. We have a great life which would only get better with children. He is scared of the usual stuff - losing his freedom, having responsibility and thinks he might resent the child in years to come.

I have to decide whether I stay with him regardless and give up on my dream of ever having a family of my own (something I find very hard to contemplate), stay with him and hope he changes his mind once the pressure is off (difficult, would require a lot of strength and I'm struggling to be patient after 1.5 yrs), or leave the love of my life to take my chances that I might find someone else who wants a family with me.

I'm trying my best not to bring it up with him, to give him the space to think - but it's so hard to try and carry on a normal life when all the while I'm thinking that we could split up next week - hence me venting my thoughts on here I guess. What would you do in my situation?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 09-Jan-13 15:17:27

You're going to have to make a 'deal-breaker' I'm afraid. confused Changing his mind after seeing GPs and reversing operations is bloody cruel. Wonder why he's really so panicky?

LifeofPo Wed 09-Jan-13 15:19:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Emsmaman Wed 09-Jan-13 15:21:01

Sounds to me like he has given you an "out" and I think you would be unwise to try and wear him down to change his mind. IME having a baby has been the most challenging part of our relationship as well as the hardest thing I have ever done individually (and the best) so I would never encourage someone who didn't want it 100% to do it. In low moments you need to remind yourself that it's what you wanted, I think if you didn't want it there would be a lot of resentment/blaming the other person (because you can't reasonably blame the screaming non-sleeping baby!).

At 34 you have time to meet someone else and build a relationship and hopefully the next one will be more upfront about their wishes.

Good luck x

Kt8791 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:21:12

How old is he? I would say that u probably have to split up, it isn't something u can compromise on. I would say that your dp has been unfair to your feelings in waiting a year to tell u he didn't want children and then changing his mind about the vasectomy.

sleepyhead Wed 09-Jan-13 15:22:12

Oh dear. I think you have to listen to him, believe him and think about the future as being child-free if you stay with him. I don't think vasectomy reversal is anything like guaranteed anyway.

Problem is, if he keeps delaying and changing his mind then the decision will be made by biology (ie you don't have forever).

You need to choose - possibility of children or life with him. Neither of them are guaranteed to end in hapiness.

You might not meet someone else, you might not be able to have children in any case.

You might split up with him over something else eventually but be too old to have children, you might find that you stay but don't reconcile yourself to childlessness, but it's too late to have children.

It's very, very, very hard sad

I would leave. Do not give up your own dreams of family life.

He will not change his mind re having children. He was not honest with you from the beginning either, he is another in a series of rubbish relationships.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 15:22:57

Cruel is one word for it, I feel like I've been put through a steamroller repeatedly and have no fight left in me.

I tried the deal breaker.. but he just panics so much he says "I'm hurting you too much, I can't deal with this. I think it's best we split". But then he agrees that he loves me too much and doesn't want it to be over, and I refuse to let us break up. I'm scared of pushing it too much, as I think it will push us over the edge.

I don't know why he's so panicky - he had a rubbish father of his own, and has never interacted with children, has no family or friends with kids. He has just always seen kids as something other people do, and can't picture it for himself.

Is there anything I can say or do that could help him see that having kids would be wonderful, and not awful?!?!

caramelgirl Wed 09-Jan-13 15:23:15

My friend had pretty much this entirely. They were inseprable for three years or so. Was heartbreaking but she gave herself a date (think month before her 32nd birthday iirc) amd left him.
Two years on and she has a three week old baby and is crazily happy with her new man.
A cheering anecdote anyway?
Good luck!

What if you leave and never find anyone you would like to father your children?

What if, by the time you find someone who you want to be the father of your children and who wants kids too, you are unable to have them?

Only throwing out some.potential situations here. Yes, staying with him.may well mean accepting you wont have lids of your own, but leaving doesnt always mean having kids.

How would you feel about single parenthood? If crunch time came would you look at insemination to get pregnant outside of a relationship?

mathsconundrum Wed 09-Jan-13 15:24:14

Even if you do stay together and have children, he will be bitter that you 'made' him do it.
I would suggest you leave. Resentment will simmer forever otherwise.

Hi NB,

Re your comments:-

"I don't know why he's so panicky - he had a rubbish father of his own, and has never interacted with children, has no family or friends with kids. He has just always seen kids as something other people do, and can't picture it for himself".

I think you've actually answered your own question here.

"Is there anything I can say or do that could help him see that having kids would be wonderful, and not awful?!?!"

In a word, no. His attitudes are too entrenched.

caramelgirl Wed 09-Jan-13 15:27:48

Sorry, cross posted. Don't think ultimately it is going to be a matter of persuading him by showing him how fab children are. Whilst I dearly dearly love my daughter we have had times of finding it tough and people are very unhelpfully keen to share sleeplessness/no life horror stories too if he is in the market to hear them. My guess is that you'd maybe persuade him for a few days and then he'd swing back again- might just prolong the uncertainty.
Feel for you, good luck

PandaOnAPushBike Wed 09-Jan-13 15:29:41

I think your first step is to accept that he doesn't want children. It sounds to me like you still think he'll come round. He won't. He doesn't want children. It sounds like the only reason he ever sort of wavered on this was because it's what you wanted to hear. It's still what you want to hear, which is why you're not listening to what he's really telling you. He doesn't want children. You cannot change this.

All you can do is make your decisions accordingly. Do you stay with him and have no children. Or do you leave and try to meet someone who does want a family. They are your only choices I'm afraid.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 15:29:43

He is 39. Yes I think I might be wrong to try and wear him down,and I understand that there might be resentment either way - i.e. from him if it's not what he really wants, from me if we never have kids...

Caramelgirl - it is encouraging to hear that others have had happy outcomes. Trouble is, I don't know if I'll ever find that perfect person. The trouble is, I have had rubbish relationships before, and when I found my current BF, I just couldn't believe my luck that we were SO happy together. That is difficult to let go of.

I just don't know if I'm brave enough to leave him when we are so happy together

penguinplease Wed 09-Jan-13 15:33:51

Sorry to hear this, similar happened to my friend. Her DP kept putting her off and off about it until finally they split up, she is now 38 childless and a bit bitter about the time she wasted with him (9.5 years in total)

... he went on to get married and have a baby with his new wife less than a year after splitting with my friend and baby no2 is due in 4 months.

If you want children and he doesn't then it is surely a deal breaker.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 15:34:38

Thank you everyone for the quick responses by the way, it's great to 'talk' this through with people.

Panda I think you're absolutely spot on - all the wavering has been because he has been trying to force himself to do this to save our relationship. I am wrong to force him into it, I know.

Can I stay with him and have no children? No, I don't think so. I might be happy for a few years, but not forever.

I am totally heartbroken - I love him, we have a wonderful life together. We are happy in every other way. Am I really going to leave all that?

CaseyShraeger Wed 09-Jan-13 15:34:54

Leave. He doesn't want children. He won't come round. You do want them.

PandaOnAPushBike Wed 09-Jan-13 15:34:57

Having said that, I think I should point out my situation. I've been with my husband for 15 years. He too was adamant that he didn't want children. I was sad but accepted it because being with him was more important to me. Until 2 years ago (when I was nearly 40) when it suddenly dawned on him that actually he would quite like to be a Dad. I thought the boat had sailed because of my age but we're due in May and I think he's more excited than I am.

I hope it works out for you, whatever you decide to do.

Mollydoggerson Wed 09-Jan-13 15:36:45

Leave him, it will focus his mind and make him poo or get off the pot. If he doesn't come back to you within 2/3 months then you know kids are definitely a no-go with him. You can then accept him for who he is or move on.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 15:36:55

Penguin - that is awful, I really hope your friend finds someone soon. Someone asked a while back whether I would consider parenting alone - yes, I would if it came to it.

Viviennemary Wed 09-Jan-13 15:37:26

He doesn't want children and you do. I have known men who were a bit indifferent as to whether or not they wanted children but turned out to be great fathers. However, actually not wanting them is different. I don't think getting him to meet great kids is any way forward. If you really want children this might affect you more and more as the years go on. And you will look back and say if only I had done this or this. So I don't think you should just accept you can't have children because he doesn't want them.

StuckOnARollercoaster Wed 09-Jan-13 15:38:33

You're asking for an opinion and based on what you have written I think you should break up - this is the type of 'dealbreaker' scenario where its impossible to compromise and I think the long term repercussions for you would be very high if you gave up your dreams of a family that includes children.

Some examples from my life - I never was massively driven by the desire to have a family. Met my DP at 34 and for the first time ever I wanted a family and I was shocked at how strong that feeling was - it was huge and I feel like suddenly everything made sense - had met a good man and the most natural thing for me was to want to build a family with him. Practical reasons meant we didn't start TTC till 36 and its been scary thinking I may have already left it too late. If I had that feeling of wanting a family and had to quash it to stay with my partner, well I can't see it ending well because it would be so difficult to get over the resentment that he prevented one of my dreams.

My half brother eventually split up with his wife and they divorced over a similarish issue that she wanted children but he didn't. (I never probed as to why it wasn't discussed before they got married though!) She has gone on to meet a lovely chap and start a family. They have both remained on good terms as exes, and I have heard my brother now express regret because maybe family life wouldn't have been so bad after all. He realises that there was nothing she could have done in hindsight and he's had to learn a hard life lesson, but there's nothing that could have been said or done to avoid that for him.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do - i can see how difficult it is for you at the moment.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 15:41:51

I think you're all right - it's make or break time.

Molly "make him poo or get off the pot" really made me laugh! You're right though.

Panda your situation sheds a new light on things - I think if it wasn't for his vasectomy, I would do the same as you. I would accept it, get on with our life together and see what happens. Trouble is, the chance of a vasectomy reversal working gets lower the longer you leave it. So as soon as we 'decided' (ahem) that we were going to have the reversal, the pressure was on to get it done as soon as possible. Added to that the time pressure of me being 34, knowing that it can take a few years to conceive IF the reversal was to work, and I just thought we would have to do it ASAP.

If things were 'natural' for him, I would happily wait a few years, in which time he might have got used to the idea and feel less pressured. Unfortunately because he messed with nature, we don't have the luxury of time.

larrygrylls Wed 09-Jan-13 15:42:35

I think the fact that he actually saw his GP shows that at that point in time he was serious. Most men (including me) avoid docs unless --on the point of death--absolutely necessary. On the other hand, the fact that he has not followed through shows that he is either frightened of the operation or really really doesn't want children.

Agreeing on children is really the sine qua non of every long term relationship. Given that you don't have much time, I would tell him that you are leaving and actually split up. If he wants you above the fear of the operation and children, it may kick him into going ahead. If not, you have your answer. I would not worry about how he will be as a father, though. There are plenty of fantastic fathers that I know who were very ambivalent about children before having their own. My brother was totally against children until he had one, now he is completely obsessed!

penguinplease Wed 09-Jan-13 15:42:45

The thing is the hope he gave my friend misled her to believe if she waited long enough he would change his mind. The reality was that children didn't exist in his head for him with her.

When he met his now wife it felt right for him in a way it hadn't before and he is now one of the most doting dads I have ever seen.

For him to have had a vasectomy that is pretty definite.

He is the latest in a long line of rubbish relationships.

I would take a good and hard look at your own self and work out exactly why you are choosing such unsuitable men to be with, this man being just the latest. He has been dishonest with you from the start.

nickelbabe Wed 09-Jan-13 15:45:27

you have to decide one way or the other.

i spent 8 years with someone who didn't change his mind.

i left my ex when i was 33, moved in with DH and got married when i was 34. had dd when i was 36.

bbface Wed 09-Jan-13 15:45:39

My dh was exactly the same. Did not want children. I was 8 yrs younger than him, both worked in the City, high earners, lived a fab life. I knew I wanted children, but sort of thought that I would confront him about his views later on.

Then... I fell pregnant. Genuine mistake, I was floored. Told him, he reacted well, very well, but clear he was worried.

Turns out he is a frickin awesome father! And I am now expecting my second and, if Dh had his way, we would have three. He is naturally a very impatient quick thinking sharp man. With our son, he is the most patient, loving, caring father I could imagine.

I am absolutely NOT suggesting you 'accidentally' fall pregnant. Rather, I think that you should push. Really bloody push it.

Dahlen Wed 09-Jan-13 15:45:50

While it's possible you may never meet someone else and have children with them (though sperm donation or adoption is always an option), you've answered your own question by realising that resentment will kill your relationship anyway if you stay.

This isn't a compromise situation. Either you give in, he does or you split. Sorry. It's an awful situation to be in. I feel for you.

crispsarenotoneofyour5aday Wed 09-Jan-13 15:46:28

Sorry but I agree with the advice here to call it a day. My younger sister was in exactly this position - desperately in love with her partner who just didn't want the responsibility and said his love for her should be enough. I should point out that my sister always wanted children and made this clear. She left, having given an ultimatum, but then went back a few months later when he pleaded with her saying that he had changed his mind. Eighteen months later he was back to saying no and this time she left for good. Was absolutely devastated at the time but is now happily married with 3dcs. Mind you, we heard that her Ex had died recently and she was very upset to hear that he had never really managed to move on after her. My view is that he made his decision and the situation was his to command. He refused the possibility of a devoted wife by refusing to budge. Harsh, moi?

bbface Wed 09-Jan-13 15:48:03

Of course my post is based on the idea that you and he have a very good really relationship, which you say you do, and that you think he would make a good father.

Attalia's last post has thrown me somewhat though.

I left when in this situation.

PandaOnAPushBike Wed 09-Jan-13 15:49:26

Could you compromise? He gets the reversal done ASAP on agreement that it does not mean he is agreeing to actually having children, just leaving the door open. Plus all talk of children is dropped for a period of time, eg a year, to give him space to breath.

(And 15 years later he has no kids, I have 3)

Doingfine Wed 09-Jan-13 15:49:38

How sad your DP had a vasectomy before you met. I cant help wondering how it would have been if he had not had it or had it successfully reversed. Would he still not want a family? Relationship counselling could help you talk about each of your hopes & expectations for the future in a safe environment. if at the end there feels like there is no way forward together they can help you end the relationship in a positive way with both of you having futures to embrace. I get a sense of your future seeing really foggy right now. I don't agree its right to split with him now, but if you cant work through this together it doesnt bode well for any other life changing issues.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 15:49:41

Larry - it's nice to hear a man's perspective (I'm assuming everyone else on this thread is female, I might be wrong sorry!) and yes, going to the GP was a major step for him. But I think you're right - leaving will give him the kick up the bum he needs to either take the plunge, or accept it's over.

Attila I realise it might seem like I'm choosing rubbish men. My last long term relationship was with a total commitment phobe. He left me when he finally decided he'd never commit. This one was different - he has always told me he wanted to marry me, and we have just been incredibly happy from the word go. The kids thing was a total shock, and I did think "oh no, not again" but I feel that I was so completely in the dark on this one that I can't blame myself.

Or maybe I am just rubbish at picking men.. confused who knows!

CailinDana Wed 09-Jan-13 15:51:59

I wonder if your views are being clouded by your previous bad relationships? The reason I ask is because you keep saying how wonderful your relationship is and yet he withheld extremely important information from you, about the vasectomy, for over a year, and since then has strung you along and messed with your feelings in a really cruel way. That doesn't come across as a great relationship to me, it comes across as a relationship that probably has lovely moments but which is fundamentally flawed. In your shoes I wouldn't really trust him - I would wonder what else he could lie about.

Another anecdote for the sake of it - a friend of mine was with a guy who didn't want children and she convinced herself she was ok with it for 10 years before finally calling it a day. She was 38 at that stage but very luckily for her she met a great guy very quickly and within a year they were married and had a lovely daughter. She is still resentful of the years she spent with the guy as she felt she wasn't true to herself and even though the relationship was basically good, it wasn't what she really wanted and she hung in there because she felt she couldn't throw it away. I suspect that's the position you're in at the moment.

The fact is, the issue of having/not having children is a massive one, and does determine the success of relationship, no matter how good other things are. Ironically if you give up your dream of having children to stay in the relationship then that's probably what will kill the relationship in the long run. You will associate the loss of your dream with your DP which over the years will become harder to bear.

Pipsytwos Wed 09-Jan-13 15:54:25

I think he's been unfair and cruel. How heart braking for you. I think you need to leave. If you stay and sacrifice having your own family with him and then for whatever reason you broke up imagine that resentment! Even if you do stay together you'll probably resent him. I'm really sorry that you're going through this. It's an impossible situation that I don't think will end well if you stay with him sad

FreckledLeopard Wed 09-Jan-13 15:55:14

My cousin wasin this predicament. She had worked for years as a nanny, loved children, wanted them. She met her partner - they had a wonderful live, travelled the world (working as nanny, he was a scuba diving teacher), he adored her. But, she made it clear she wanted children. He couldn't bear to sacrifice his freedom and lifestyle.

So, in the end, she gave him an ultimatum. She took a job in another country for six months and left him on the other side of the world to decide what he wanted - to stay with her and therefore have a child, or to split up. At the end of the six months he decided he loved her so much that he would have a child. Their daughter is now six and he is a very good father.

If you do have the strength for something similar, then at least you'll know categorically what the deal is.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 15:57:15

bbface - we do have a lovely relationship, we both agree that we are the best thing to ever happen to each other. He has had a rubbish marriage, so he knows how crap things can be, and has always commented how good we are together.

Panda that compromise is something I have suggested (in desperation). I think the immediacy of it all has pushed him away. I have suggested that if he agrees to have it done, we can then wait until we're both ready to TTC like a normal couple. Because truth be told, I don't want a baby now - but I realise that the issue needs to be tackled now and can't be swept under the carpet for another year. In an ideal world, I'd be happy to wait a few more years for a baby - but that nasty biological clock together with the decreasing chance of his reversal working the longer we leave it makes it difficult.

Am in a somewhat similar position to you. Same age, have been with wonderful BF for 3 years. He is 'not sure' whether he wants kids. However, he has been absolutely open about this with me from day 1 (as have I been that I DO want kids), nor has he undertaken any such radical contraceptive measures as your BF.

I have a deadline in my head (it's actually looming pretty large...) and if he's not prepared to get onto the same page as me by then, I know I will have to put into practise my 'dealbreaker plan' and end it. No matter what the pain.

I'm afraid from what you've written your prospects of a family with this man don't look good at all. I know how hard it is to have to make this decision - sympathies.

This happened to a dear friend of the end they split and he went on and had a baby with his next partner very quickly, and then another. She in the meantime struggled because the relationship had used up most of her fertile years and ended up after years of struggle with one, much loved child, and regrets not having been able to have more.

So I wanted to say...this might just be a sign that he's just not that into you after all.

Hoŵever much you leave each other, this IS a deal breaker. Walk away now.

Weird ipad thing there...However

ChristmasFayrePhyllis Wed 09-Jan-13 16:03:14

Sorry but I think this is a no-go. To have actually had a vasectomy means that he definitely, definitely doesn't want children. Coupled with the fact he was happy with misleading you for a year about something so obviously important (a lie of omission is a lie), it does not augur well.

The um-ing and ah-ing that is going on now is about him realising that he is going to have to sacrifice something from a set-up which suits him. It is not about your best interests.

Leave him - and don't let him suck you into dragging the break-up process out.

spamm Wed 09-Jan-13 16:04:29

Try and imagine yourself in 10 years or 20 years time. Can you come to terms with the idea of not having children?

Obviously being with somebody does not guarantee that you will have children - there are many other factors. But being with somebody who does not want children certainly guarantees that it is highly unlikely to ever happen.

Two close friends are now suffering the results of this situation. He was clear that he did not want children, he was careful to never mislead her, but because he changed his mind about getting married, she thought he might change his mind about DCs. They are still married 16 years later, but she is very unhappy and drinks too much, and he is very conscious of how it makes her feel. I hope they get through this, as they are great together, but it is so sad to watch.

NotActuallyAMum Wed 09-Jan-13 16:08:08

I've only read the OP because I'm at work, no time to read the rest at the mo

Please let me tell you 'my story'

I met my DH when I was 33 and he was 36. He was divorced, had a child and had had a vasectomy. I was happily child free - had never wanted children and honestly believed I never would, but once he and I started getting close I realised that what I had actually meant over the years was that I had never wanted children with the abusive twat I used to live with

Cue the worst year of my life so far...

I told him I'd changed my mind, he made it clear he didn't want more children. It was such a traumatic time and I went to hell and back. You really do have my biggest sympathies OP. At one stage I couldn't watch adverts for nappies/baby food/prams etc. etc. without sobbing uncontrollably. Mother's Day that year was almost unbearable

I realised that I couldn't live like that, I had to make a decision: it was either him or children - I simply couldn't have both

After much soul searching and countless nights - weeks even - without sleep, I chose him

I'm now 41 and my life is FAB. We do what we want when we want, we don't have anyone else to worry about (well, family of course but that's not the same). We spend every weekend watching football and more football (heaven for both of us), we get pissed most Saturdays, we have sex a lie in almost every weekend morning, and every few weeks we decide at the last minute that we're going away for the weekend. We wouldn't be able to do most of that if we had had children

I'm not saying, of course, that this would happen to you. Just wanted to let you know that you can have a happy life without children, if that's what you decide you want to do

I wish you the very best of luck OP, I really do feel for you

dequoisagitil Wed 09-Jan-13 16:08:26

But he hasn't been straight with you from the off, about something so important. The relationship might be great in other ways, but this is such a massive thing to withhold for a year into it, not to mention all the farfing about for the next 18 months. This was really bad of him. And echoes your previous commitment-phobe. There's a big old lie of omission at the very heart of your relationship.

Consider it as a choice between him and having dc. I think you have to.

He couldn't make the jump to having the reversal and your chances of dc together are slipping away all the time while he dithers.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 16:08:42

by the way bbface I had read forums from people in a similar situation to yours, so I asked him "Imagine you'd never had the vasectomy, and I accidentally fell pregnant - how would you feel?". He said it would be fine, because we'd have to be, we would just get on with it.

So I know he would deal with it if it happened. The tragic thing is that most men only have to decide to agree to try, then the woman can stop birth control and let nature take its course. He has already got to that point - he has previously agreed that we would do it sometime in the future... but because of his (self inflicted) situation, he has to take much further action to make it happen. And he just can't make that desicion..

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Wed 09-Jan-13 16:09:30

Actually, are you sure that you want children? Really, really sure? The pressure on people to breed is intense anyway - and it shouldn't be. A natural, healthy balance is for some people to remain childfree while others have several children. Yet people who are determined that they don't want children are regularly nagged, asked rude questions by near-strangers and face a barrage of criticism for their 'selfishness' and 'immaturity'. Actually, it's far more selfish and immature just to breed because it's what other people do, only to find out too late that you are a rotten parent.

I am asking this because you a) have a track record of choosing men who don't want a committed relationship and to breed with you and b) after all the pressure you have put on your partner, you are still saying that you don't actually want DC yet. So I wonder if you are driven more by a wish to conform and do what's expected of you than from an actual desire to reproduce.

It's fine not to want children and to prefer a childfree life. Plenty of people remain childfree; some never produce their own genetic children but may, later on, foster or adopt. THe world is, after all, full of unwanted children in need of homes, and there is actually an argument to the effect that going through repeated medical intervention just to have a child or children that's genetically 'yours' is selfish in the extreme.

cathers Wed 09-Jan-13 16:11:06

From what you have written, I think you need to leave him. You said yourself, if you stay with him and don't have kids, you will probably end up splitting.

I think, even if you do manage to have a child with him, there will be too much resentment on his part towards the baby and how his lifestyle will change. Or he would likely carry on his 'single life' lifestyle while you would be the primary carer and resent him.

I think I would leave- if he really wants you and the kids that hopefully come with you, he will go after you.

BalloonSlayer Wed 09-Jan-13 16:14:55

I think you need to wave bye bye to this one.

I don't like the way he spent a year reeling you in before dropping the bombshell of his vasectomy on you. I reckon all this talk of "yes I'll have it reversed" is just bullshit to stop you leaving, and it's just dragging it out.

I had a friend who met a man who made it perfectly clear he didn't want children when she was 34, and desperate for children. She fell in love with him and before long was proclaiming that no, actually she didn't want children either, never had in fact. Yeah right, so all those conversations about her broodiness were in my imagination were they? We lost touch after I had my first DC, not sure why . . . hmm The last Christmas card I had from her, she was still with him, and she would have been aged about 43. I wonder how she feels about that decision now. sad

penguinplease Wed 09-Jan-13 16:17:51

but you don't know that he would deal with it if it was able to just happen because it isn't so of course he would say that.. in reality the very fact that he had a vasectomy speaks volumes.

Oh and just to counter add to a post above, we have 3dcs.. but we still have a social life both together and apart, we still get pissed when we want, eat out and go on nice holidays. Life doesn't stop when you have kids its just changes and comes with some compromises. But if you are trying to compromise on the very fact of having children you need to walk away.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 16:18:15

Notactually I read your post thinking "here comes the bit where she says she left him and now has 3 kids"... what a refreshing change. I think our life would be fab if we never have kids, but I'm just not sure whether it would chip away at our relationship and I would resent it in years to come.

Of course, I could just get on with it and see how I feel in a year... which brings me to solidGold's question - I think I want kids because I love children and do feel that yearning to have my own. What I'm most scared of is resenting him in the long term - I can't imagine getting to my 50s and still not having kids... but like you say, there are many kids out there needing good homes.

So many decisions, I just don't know. I could stay with BF, have a few great years and we could split up over something else anyway. Or I could leave him, and be miserable... who knows. I just don't know if I'm brave enough to leave him on the offchance that there's something amazing around the corner...

catnipkitty Wed 09-Jan-13 16:18:52

Similar thing happened to a friend of mine. The decision has to be yours, whatever makes you happy - would you rather keep him and not have kids (and maybe resent him forever) or leave him and risk not finding anyone 'better' anyway. So hard, but don't leave it too late, you can never assume you'll be able to concieve easily and you may need time (1, 2, 3 years for intervention maybe). Some people just really don't want to have children, and he seems to know his own mind, but is messing you around because he doesn't want to lose you.

My friend eventually left the bastard partner who kept her hanging on and on while he 'made a decision'...she's now with a lovely man but she's in her 40's and no chance of kids.

noddyholder Wed 09-Jan-13 16:20:31

I think he is scared of the op. Can you just sit him down and say time marching on and we need to split if we really don't want kids. Lots of people who don't end up besotted. Do you know why he had a vasectomy in 1st relationship rather than just use contraception. Seems radical

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 16:25:41

He is scared of the op, but it's more than that. He had his vasectomy when he was 25.... twenty five!! when he was with his future wife. She didn't want kids, and the pill "didn't agree with her" and he agreed he didn't want kids either. He says he's never regretted the decision.

The thing is i'm certain that if we did have a child, he would love it. He's an incredibly homely, responsible, loving kind person. He isn't selfish, and doesn't have a high flying lifestyle where we go out on the piss every weekend or anything. He is simply worried that he wouldn't have enough time, as he works hard and never finds time to relax. And he's worried that we wouldnt have enough time for each other. That's all.

LeChatRouge Wed 09-Jan-13 16:26:19

How would you feel about a trial separation to test how you feel about the reality of not being together? With some time and space apart, you might feel despair at first, then clarity, knowing that being a mum is something that you have to do.

Or, you might realise the totality of what you would be giving up by moving on from this confused soul, and if that is too much to bear, too painful, a life without this man is too much, then you might discover your answer.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 16:28:40

Can I just say thank you to everyone who has taken time to respond - I'm a long time lurker, and spent so much time mooching around worrying about this and annoying my RL friends and family that is is so good to get advice from all of you. Thank you, it is really helping smile

NotActuallyAMum Wed 09-Jan-13 16:30:03

"but I'm just not sure whether it would chip away at our relationship and I would resent it in years to come"

Of course you're not, you can't possibly know that. I was worried about the same thing but I told myself at the time that I have to make my decision, stick with it and never look back or have regrets

I've now come full circle and I'm very glad I never had children - they get on my nerves LOL

I really do feel for you Nutty, I remember my meltdown sad and how awful that time in my life was

BalloonSlayer Wed 09-Jan-13 16:30:22

He isn't selfish, and doesn't have a high flying lifestyle where we go out on the piss every weekend or anything. He is simply worried that he wouldn't have enough time, as he works hard and never finds time to relax. And he's worried that we wouldnt have enough time for each other.

... but he's not worried that he effectively lied to you for a year, not worried about going back on an agreement, and not worried if you are miserable because you don't get to fulfil your dreams.

All about him isn't it?

dequoisagitil Wed 09-Jan-13 16:31:06

How does he justify lying to you for a year?

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 16:31:58

LeChat I think that is probably what we will do. He has already suggested it, but I didn't want to go through with it. He wants to try being without me to shock himself into realising what he might be missing - whereas I think we're better off being happy together to realise what we still have.

But a trial separation might be our only option - he is a classic Man from Venus who goes into his 'cave' in situations like this, and can't talk about it, so time apart might bring clarity..... sad

Ridiculous thing is, I still have my own house, so moving out would be very easy. I would be fine. I just feel too sad at the thought of it...

drjohnsonscat Wed 09-Jan-13 16:32:07

nutty I am sorry you are in this horrible position. Really sad and he sounds great. Excep that if you want children it's a dealbreaker. Unless you can follow Notactuallyamum's route which is cool and I am envious

If you can't follow her route then it's a dealbreaker. But I note that upthread you mentioned you would contemplate becoming a parent on your own. That's usually a sign that having a child is the most important thing for you rather than the relationship - the fact that you would even contemplate doing it on your own.

I did just that - I have two DCs on my own. Best thing I ever did. This is not for now but giving yourself permission to think about this might help you feel less desperate about things - because if you leave him you absolutely have to find someone great who wants children and we all know that's not easy. So it adds to the sense of panic and fear. Maybe just give yourself a little bit of permission to think about alternatives it might help to clear your mind - is it him you actually want, a relationship generally or a baby (one day). Any one of these answers is ok but at the moment it feels like everything is up in the air and it's not clear to you which one matters more to you because you are (understandably) dealing with the sadness you feel.

Greer123 Wed 09-Jan-13 16:34:26

Sorry hun, but it's better if you leave him. If you push him into having children and he really doesn't want them it will be entirely your fault for screwing up his life, your kids life and your own life. It's really your mistake for leaving it too late to find a committed partner - trying to correct your error by forcing someone else to find a solution for you will only lead to more problems.

NotActuallyAMum Wed 09-Jan-13 16:37:00

I have to agree that not telling you he'd had the snip for a whole year is not good at all

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 16:37:39

Notactually - I admire you, I'm not sure if I could have the courage of my convictions as you do. I would like to think I would, and I don't doubt that I would enjoy my life... but how did you get past that urge to become a mother?

Balloonslayer Yeah I can see how it looks like that. He is worried about how he has treated me, and feels awful about it. But it's not enough to make him do anything about it, clearly...

dequoisagitil - I have been reluctant to say this on here because of the slating I know he will get... but would you believe he told me he actually forgot he had had a vasectomy? Of course, I asked him how could he not have told me earlier, when I made it clear I wanted kids, or when he saw me taking the pill every day...? He said that because it happened so long ago, and because he had never thought about it from that day onwards, it just didnt occur to him. Of course, I found that hard to believe, but he is adamant, that although it sounds ridiculous, he never thought about it, until I finally pushed the subject of having kids.

If you are contemplating sperm donation and single parenthood, being someone's mother means more to you than being this man's girlfriend.

I recommend as others have that you break up with no intention of getting back together. Immediately look at your options (donor sperm, adoption, etc). He may end up coming along for the ride; in the meantime you haven't missed the bus you always planned to catch.

NotActuallyAMum Wed 09-Jan-13 16:38:28

Rather harsh Greer123

dequoisagitil Wed 09-Jan-13 16:39:27

Oh, er, very absentminded of him hmm.

And you don't really particularly outraged by this?

Hatpin Wed 09-Jan-13 16:40:03

Have you discussed properly what will happen if the reversal is unsuccessful?

There is a high chance of failure with a vasectomy reversal, particularly if it was several years ago. The surgeon should have explained to him / you that even if the operation itself is successful, he will probably have developed anti-sperm antibodies which means that his sperm will not reach maturity and be able to do their job. AFAIK this is completely irreversible.

The only possibility of him fathering a child in that case would be via IVF - ICSI which is an expensive and intensive process for you both ( they would aspirate sperm from his testes using a needle, you would have to undergo treatment to stimulate egg production and have your eggs collected, then IVF would be carried out). Again, this procedure has high failure rates, and it may take a long time to achieve a pregnancy, if at all.

If you go down this road it is extremely stressful, and you will both need to be committed 100%. You will also both need to believe that if the process fails, your relationship will survive.

dequoisagitil Wed 09-Jan-13 16:40:26

missing word: feel smile

drjohnsonscat Wed 09-Jan-13 16:40:43

agree notactually. I'm hoping it was just badly phrased. Most women spend years hoping to find a committed partner and doing all the right things to make that happen - I know I did and broke my heart over my failure to do that. Just so happens it all worked out well for me but I'm very sad for a number of my friends who are lovely, presentable, fun, not flakey, who never found the one who wanted to commit to them and now it's too late.

meditrina Wed 09-Jan-13 16:40:46

I tend to agree with the "another rubbish relationship" view. You said he didn't tell you about the vasectomy for a year, despite your talking about wanting children. OK: it's not something for the first date, but isn't something to keep back once more settled. It's a pretty major thing to withhold.

You may feel good with him at the moment, but incompatible views on family is one of the biggies.

There is one last thing you may want to try, in case the reality of a further op of uncertain outcome is a factor, is to discuss the use of donor sperm. But I think this may be clutching at straws.

LeChatRouge Wed 09-Jan-13 16:42:38

You know what? It issad because in the other areas you are fulfilled, you don't have any complaints. It is heartbreaking.

What does strike me is that he has imaginary scenarios around the reality of having children, very natural fears, but not really proven.

Any option at all you can try and involve some relative's children in your life for a while? Nieces or nephews or even friends? Hang out together having fun, kicking a ball, going to a cafe, doing some activities, try and get to see together what kids are all isn't the same as 24/7, through sickness and sleepiness nights, but still an insight.

As a parent, time is an issue, you have many days where you don't feel like there is enough time, but every phase and stage is temporary, they grow out of that bit and someone new comes along, another challenge. I think it's important that he can name and recognise his fears and be allowed to feel like that.

NotActuallyAMum Wed 09-Jan-13 16:43:47

"how did you get past that urge to become a mother?"

Once I'd made my decision and I knew it would never happen it really wasn't that difficult, I told myself that I had decided it wasn't to be and that I must look forward, not back

thanks for you Nutty, I know how hard this is

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 16:43:59

Yeah, maybe being a mother is more important to me. I don't know - I do love him, he does make me so happy... argh I dont know.

As for feeling outraged - yes of course I did at first, but I have honestly forgiven him, he made a mistake and I can accept that. What I was angry with him for was not the forgetting - it was the stringing me along for so long. That is harder to forgive. But to be honest, if he agreed to have the operation, I would forgive all of that in a heartbeat.

Kiriwawa Wed 09-Jan-13 16:46:34

If he genuinely forgot (which I doubt) or had put it entirely to the back of his mind so that it was in the 'not important' box, he really, really doesn't want kids.

He lied to you for a whole year. I spent my 30s with someone I didn't believe when he said he didn't want kids. I'm a single parent now but I was lucky I could conceive. I've seen many of my friends go through the heartbreak of fertility treatment (and as Hatpin says, that's likely to be what you're looking at anyway) and it's heartbreaking.

Only you know whether you want children more than you want him but I do believe that's the choice - I don't think you should stay with him if you want children.

sleepyhead Wed 09-Jan-13 16:48:40

This is probably way, way off.... but do you have any evidence he actually had a vasectomy? Because to "forget" about it when you enter into a new relationship and for it only to come up when you talk about children (rather than in a normal conversation about contraception - were you using condoms to protect against STIs originally?) just seems a bit unlikely...

CailinDana Wed 09-Jan-13 16:49:16

Nutty seriously, I think you need to look closely at your relationship in a more honest way. Do you seriously believe he forgot that someone cut open his penis, then later tested his sperm on two occasions? Seriously? Are you that naive?

He lied to you, then lied about lying, then strung you along and now you say he won't talk to you, because he's gone into his "cave". He sounds like a total dickhead and I worry that past relationships have made you accept bad treatment and believe you deserve it. He clearly thinks he can just piss you about and you'll take it.

Ragwort Wed 09-Jan-13 16:50:01

I'll give my point of view 'from the other side' - DH & I married in our 30s, I was very clear that I did not want children, and explained fully before we married, DH agreed and we had (mainly grin) a very happy 10 years - then DH changed his mind and said he really regretted not having a child and 'persuaded' me to have a child (I take full responsibility, I could have refused, I could have left him) - I sort of hoped assumed it just wouldn't happen as I was early 40s however I did have a DC when I was 43.

It has not been easy, of course our DC is a delight and we love him very much but it is not the life I would have chosen - DH is a wonderful father and is clearly happy but yes, I do have regrets sad - and nothing to do with money but just lost opportunities.

So my advice to anyone else would be, if having a child is so important to you, then leave and make that your priorty.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 16:52:37

Hatpin - Yes, the potential for failure and what that would mean is another thing that adds pressure. Because we know that if we go down the route of VR, it could be a very long and difficult road. That is why he says if he decides to do it he wants to be 100% committed to it rather than just having a reversal and seeing what happens. We know that we could face years of disappointment and difficulty, so we have to be 100% on the same page on that.

LeChat as for practising with other kids - yes I have 2 wonderful nephews who I adore. He likes them, and enjoys being around them. We have even had them for a few sleepovers. To be honest, what bothers him isnt the kids, it's the parents - he looks at them, how stressed they are, how they just bicker and don't have time for anything and that is what puts him off. I try to tell him that we would deal with it in our own way, but how do I know what it would be like?

It really comes down to how much you want children. If you long for them, if the thought of never having them leaves you distraught, if you know that you would regret not at least trying for them, then you have to separate. If you can put the longing aside, and he can be enough, then stay with him and put the idea to bed. Only you know which is preferable.

AmandaPayne Wed 09-Jan-13 16:55:19

Ok, I'm normally fairly reluctant to judge. But he told you he forgot a vasectomy? He didn't. He lied. Lied horribly to you. Repeatedly. Every time he saw you taking a pill and didn't tell you he lied.

Probably he lied out of fear, because he knew he didn't want kids and you did. So he buried his head in the sand and hoped it would go away. Maybe he lied for another reason. Either way, he lied. Deliberately and repeatedly, by omission.

I would leave. Even if he agrees to try, you may have a long road ahead of you, as has been said. You would both have to really want it for that to be possible.

I think it is possible to decide to choose a relationship over having kids, but it is a very difficult call. I know a man who did it 30 years ago and there is still an obvious hole in his life.

dequoisagitil Wed 09-Jan-13 16:56:20

I lean towards CailinDana's interpretation of his behaviour. I think you're too eager to forgive some extreme lies.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 17:01:35

sleepyhead I did delude myself with that thought for a while - his GP has promised to find his file to show how it was done for the VR surgeon.. but I have to believe it happened...

Kiriwawa I think the 'not important box' is more likely, it has just never been an issue for him.

CailinDana I know how ridiculous it sounds, and I would be saying exactly what you're saying right now if I was reading this. I know. When I say he's 'gone into his cave' I don't mean he's not talking to me - on the contrary, we're getting along just fine. I mean that he is reluctant to talk about this issue, and clams up whenever I bring it up, and starts to panic.

Bleurgh - sometimes I do wish I could be just like NotActuallyaMum and just get on with my life. I must admit, when contemplating starting the whole TTC / IVF scariness that we would have to go through if we agree to do this - I do feel a slight panic and wonder about all the foreign travel I have yet to do, and perhaps I could fill my life sufficiently to not get too upset about it....

LeChatRouge Wed 09-Jan-13 17:03:05

You know people are all different. What some people would NOT put up with at ALL, you have been able to live with, and that's ok.

Not one person embarking on the journey of parenthood knows what's in store for them. You dont know what it will be like....^but neither does he^. He is projecting the future based on something, his childhood experiences maybe? His observation of other parents? How he imagines it will be.

If he is as keen as you are on saving your relationship, would he consider having some therapy to explore his deep rooted fears? They are coming from somewhere and may be something that could be addressed with sensitivity and patience. At least then, you would maybe feel like you had tried everything.

Chipping in with vasectomy reversal experience here... my DH had his vasectomy, and then (for reasons I won't go into) had it reversed only 18 months later. However it still didn't work... best chance of success is when it is done sooner rather than many years later, but it didn't work. His brother also had a reversal when he remarried but his was over ten years since the vasectomy and that also failed.
Sometimes reversals DO work but the surgeons make it VERY clear that it is as likely to fail as succeed, and even if your dp did have it done it might not give you the baby you long forsad

dequoisagitil Wed 09-Jan-13 17:05:52

Yes, but by shutting you out, refusing to discuss and being 'panicky', he's also opting out and expecting you to keep hanging on. So he's keeping you busy worrying about his emotions, not your own future.

You didn't want to tell us about his 'forgetfulness', because you know it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 17:05:53

Thank you all for your advice - it really is helping, both the good and bad stories. It just helps to 'talk'

You have not necessarily failed by he has failed you from the beginning by not being fully honest about his desire not to have children. Having a vasectomy at 25 is quite definate an intention, I would not fully believe him either when he says that he forget he had a vasectomy!.

You are his partner, does he want to marry you or does he want you to remain as boyfriend and girlfriend?.

Think he has strung you along throughout and this time you have ended up with another commitment phobic man, this one this time does not want children. Perhaps this is actually why his first marriage broke up., you perhaps only have his word for it that his wife did not want children or that the pill disagreed with her.

I would certainly reassess your whole approach to relationships, I think you have learnt a lot of damaging stuff along the way that needs unlearning.

Also he had the vas op done 14 years ago; a reversal if that did happen is highly unlikely to work now.

I don't think you can just 'forget' you had a vasectomy. He also made the decision to wait a year to tell you, when he could have told you so much earlier, when it would have been far less emotional. It seems like he is the one in charge of the pack of cards here.

The fact he is really struggling with the idea of having the OP reversed, that he had done at such an incredibly young age, makes me think this is never going to happen. I had a friend who already had a child from his first marriage and had the OP reversed because they were desperate for kids in his second marriage. They tried for years but never had any children.
So it's not like even if he went ahead and had it done there's a guarantee you'd get pregnant. He seems to be finding it hard to even reach that compromise with you.

It's an incredibly hard decision to make OP. Either way.

CailinDana Wed 09-Jan-13 17:13:38

I'm sorry to harp on, but you are making so many excuses for him and I really wonder why. You say he will talk to you, but not about this one issue that is so incredibly important to you. Do you not see how unfair that is?

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 17:13:56

LeChat yes he is projecting, and imagining the worst. Occasionally he imagines the nice stuff, but then gets scared again. I try to help him imagine the nice stuff, but it's exhausting. A while back, we went away with some friends with older kids, and it really opened his eyes as to how good it could be. He actually said if he could have one like that (our friends 10 year old), he would - I really don't think he has much imagination and just sees frazzled parents of babies and thinks "yeuch"

Medusa - Yeah, I know the chances aren't good, especially since it has been 12 years since his original V. We did consider going straight for ICSI, but he wanted to try the natural way first (but obviously has changed his mind again!). It could still be an option.. but he said he didn't want to put me through that since it was all his doing....

dequoisagitil Yeah, you're right. By not talking, he's forcing me into this limbo. I know it's a crappy way to behave. And yeah, I know the forgetting sounds so ridiculous I don't blame anyone for being incredulous - believe me, I've had plenty of people in RL tell me the same! But he's a good good man, I love and trust him. I can't expect anyone else to have the same faith I do.

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 17:17:59

Dealbreaker for me too.

The fact he kept it from you for a year despite knowing you wanted children is just plain indefensible imo. The offering to get it reversed was just something to say to keep you hanging imo.

I am sorry for you.

There is other men out there for you who won't lie, deceive or break your heart and who will want children but if you stay with your current boyfriend there will be no children.

I also find the comment about so be it if we have to split over it to be very blackmailery.

morethanpotatoprints Wed 09-Jan-13 17:19:35

Hello Op

All I can say is both dh and I were adamant we didn't want any kids. We both had careers that were incompatable unless we hardly saw them.

We ended up with 3 and dh is a fantastic father. So I don't think you both need to want kids at all let alone 100%

However, if I had wanted dc and he didn't / reverse/ I don't think it would be possible to continue the relationship, no matter how much we loved one another.

He kept it quiet for a year, he doesn't want children. You have to let go and find somebody who does. This is not an insignificant part of a persons belief you can compromise on. You will never be happy or feel fullfilled.

I am really sorry for you, but there is some very good advice on here. I wish you luck, best wishes and a huge hug.

ledkr Wed 09-Jan-13 17:21:04

Think you have to leave tbh. My cousin married a girl who didn't want kids he put his desire to one side but they broke up a few years ago.
He is now with his new wife and they are pregnant and delighted.
His x wife is equally happy with new guy and they have no children.
I think his desire not to have kids is a strong as yours to have them so there really is no middle ground.
Do you really want a child with someone who resents every night feed or shitty nappy?

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 17:22:14

CailinDana it's ok, I understand why you are saying what you're saying. Yes I can see how unfair it is - I guess i'm just scared to push the issue too much for fear of creating an argument and the whole thing crashing down around us.

I suppose I'm treading on eggshells around him, hoping he will come round to the right decision.

And yes, I have learnt bad relationship habits I guess - I had an extremely commitment phobic ex (Still had clothes in a bin bag after years of living with me, and a full set of kitchen utensils packed in a box at his mothers which he never moved in to my house, ready for when he finally walked out... oh the stories are endless!) and I pushed and pushed him to talk about commitment until he finally walked (which was of course, the best thing he ever did). So yeah, I suppose since then I have been extremely scared of pushing for commitment of any kind.

NotMostPeople Wed 09-Jan-13 17:22:37

I would say that you have two options either decide it's over and walk or go for a trial separation. I had to leave my exH because he didn't want children (and yes a few years later he had some with wife No2). If the relationship is right then it should all fall into place, but it's not is it?

He kept this a secret from you, that in itself is not an indication of a good person nor is the way he's behaved recently. Even if you do persuade him he is going to throw it back at you when you are exhausted with a new baby, when you can't go on the sort of holidays you used to etc etc. Trust me having a baby is hard on a relationship, it has to be something you are both absolutely sure of.

I'd walk away, it may be that he realises what he's lost but if that does happen it needs to be totally his decision not influenced by you begging.

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 17:23:51

The more I read the more I really dislike this man.

ALl dramatic about how he can't deal with it, is hurting you etc it bollocks. Oh woe is him hmm. But then says you will have to split. I'd help him pack.

He isn't the only man in the world, you could have many lovers before you die, but there is a limited time in which you can have a baby.

If you were to persuade him, really bad idea btw, he would be throwing it in your face at the first sign of you asking him to parent. How you wanted this baby, he didn't really, he did it for you, etc etc.

NotMostPeople Wed 09-Jan-13 17:24:05

Oh and think about the baby you would like to have, now imagine your baby was in the situation you are in now - is that what you would want for them?

dequoisagitil Wed 09-Jan-13 17:25:18

He is stringing you along - shifting the goal-posts.

Lets you believe for an entire year that children are possible
Claims to have forgotten his vasectomy
Convinces you to try the 'natural' way (that is very unlikely to succeed anyway) and has kept you hanging on while he puts off having the reversal and then backs out completely
Now he's refusing to discuss it.

I think your faith in him is misplaced. Whether he has issues or not, the outcome is the same, lies and obstacles.

Think about how many potential child-bearing years you realistically have to waste trying to 'bring him round'. He is just keeping your hopes up unfairly.

curryeater Wed 09-Jan-13 17:30:19

He should have been honest with you. He isn't nice.
He didn't, because he knew you wanted children and you would probably leave quite soon (before you got so attached). You should have been free to make this decision. He liked (likes) having you around, you have added all sorts of fun and benefits and good times to his life, and he put his desire for those over your feelings and your right to make an informed decision about your own future

He is a git. Get rid.

You will probably meet someone nice very soon. You sound lovely. A lot of men are nice and want families and do not have ishoos. If you don't (very unlikely) - you will find a way to deal with not having kids eventually. But you can still meet a nice man at any age (or be happy alone). Better than being with this person who used you by withholding the truth.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 17:30:28

So what do I do - give him the big ultimatum tonight? Agree to do it, or I walk?

Mollydoggerson Wed 09-Jan-13 17:34:04

I think you should just walk, no ultimatum. Simply, I want kids, you can't give me that, thanks for the laughs, goodbye.

from what you say in the op, he sounds like a horrible, selfish man. And a liar. It doesn't sound like a good relationship if he's been treating you like that, disrespecting your wishes for years.

expatinscotland Wed 09-Jan-13 17:35:26

No ultimatum. 'I want kids, you don't.' I divorced my former spouse because he never wanted children. I felt the least I could give my children was a father who truly wanted them.

CailinDana Wed 09-Jan-13 17:35:45

Just walk.

Don't stay in this relationship. You are not right when you say it is a great relationship. You think it's great because you've had such awful ones in the past. Take it from people with an outside perspective, it is marginally better than those awful ones, but only marginally. You deserve so much better than this, sweetheart, you really do. You have every right to push this issue, but the fact that you feel you can't speaks volumes - you are willing to give up on your own feelings and happiness out of fear, in order to keep someone else happy. That is not a good place to be, and I would strongly advise you to get some counselling before you even consider another relationship after this one.

I know that might sound harsh, but the children issue isn't your main problem at the moment. There is so much more going on, and now is the time to sort it, while you're young and still have the opportunity to have a really great relationship with someone who will treat you right and give you the children you want.

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 17:36:15

"I just don't know if I'm brave enough to leave him when we are so happy together."

But you are not so happy together as there is a big Baby Shaped Elephant in the room and even if you don't think about it constantly it is there all the same.

He is hoping you will change you mind.

You are hoping he will change your mind.

curryeater Wed 09-Jan-13 17:36:40

agree, just walk. he could say he wanted kids tomorrow and would still not be a nice man.

HeathRobinson Wed 09-Jan-13 17:36:53

Nutty, could you have some eggs frozen, to give yourself more of a chance further down the line? Either with dp or donor sperm.

sarahseashell Wed 09-Jan-13 17:37:17

OP he does not want children to the extent that he went through a vasectomy that's how much he doesn't want them.

Yes he should've told you sooner. But as soon as he did you were then free to walk away and you can walk away now. Trying to make him have children he does not want is absolutely the wrong way to go IMO

dequoisagitil Wed 09-Jan-13 17:37:32

I think you should walk too. And that Cailin is right.

bishboschone Wed 09-Jan-13 17:39:47

My sister's boyfriend was like this . He has a son already and is fabulous Witt kids but told her no more . She accepted this and married him. It's a shame though as she spent her whole life wanting children but ultimately her choice.

Lavenderhoney Wed 09-Jan-13 17:39:53

I agree with caikindana that he has treated you very selfishly from the start, knowing you wanted children and calculating he would " see how it went" til you pushed the kids question then messing with your head about the vasectomy. why aren't you furious with him for lying to you and leading you on?
You have wasted 3 years with him when you could have been out there meeting someone else who wanted the same things in life as you. I don't see how you can love someone and not tell them such fundamental thing early on so they don't fall in love and you screw up their life. To me it's like someone suddenly saying " oh I can't get married, I have a wife already, didn't tell you as I knew you'd be upset"

He says he doesn't want kids and has taken steps so that can't happen. You should listen to him as he is finally telling the truth. He doesn't want kids. He was hoping you would think he was enough for you. I certainly wouldn't wait a minute longer or another year whist he got his head together.

He won't, and you will be in the same place now next year, only more bitter and who's to say you won't argue so much or just be so miserable underneath, and split up.

Please don't fall for any let's get engaged, married next year then we can have some time together etc etc. you're still young enough at 34 to find someone else.

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 17:40:07

thanks You're all brilliant. Real life is calling, so I'll see what happens tonight. Thank you all for your support so far.. I might be needing you again soon xx

MooncupGoddess Wed 09-Jan-13 17:41:38

I've had dates/short relationships with men who were sure they didn't want children... and they've told me that within the first couple of dates. I'm sure they'd have done the same if they'd had a vasectomy. That's how important this is.

I don't think this man thinks of you as being an equal human being to him, or there is no way he'd have failed to tell you about his vasectomy for A YEAR. And the fact you are treading on eggshells round him now is a really bad sign. Think about other aspects of your life together - do you find yourself subconsciously compromising to give him what he wants?

AuntieMaggie Wed 09-Jan-13 17:42:18

I'm sorry to say this but I think the way he has acted speaks volumes about the fact that he feels less for you than you do for him.

Practically, can you both go to couples counselling to explore this before you do split?

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 17:42:31

Do you know that he really did go to the doctor or was that another case of him telling you what you wanted to hear?

Sorry, but I think you should leave him. There is no compromise. I still find it astonishing that some couples have children when one of them is 'indifferent'. I don't think you should have kids unless both partners genuinely really want them. It's a helluva commitment.

There are plenty of guys who, for whatever reason, do not want children. That is their right. It doesn't automatically mean they are gits, or have issues. Just as there are women who don't want kids.

The difference in your case, OP, is that he kept this from you for a year. I can see why it might not come up in the first few dates and possibly not until it's clear it the relationship has legs. Decent guys - and women - who don't want kids will always raise it at this point at the latest.

Yours didn't.

mercibucket Wed 09-Jan-13 17:51:51

He lied for a year til he was sure of you.

Thing is, he could have been infertile. If he knew he was infertile and didn't tell you for a year, I guess you'd have either sperm donation or adopt? You would probably not be talking about splitting up if he was really the man for you. So really, by not suggesting either of those, he's saying 'no I don't want a baby at all'.

Listen to him

As to what you do, only you can decide. I would split up.

sudaname Wed 09-Jan-13 17:55:44

My Dbro was like this with my ex sil. Adamant never ever wanted kids. Whenever she'd had a few it would all come out and she would tell me how heartbroken she was. He left her at 42yrs old for another woman after 20 plus yearts together. You guessed it - now got two young children and a teenage stepson.

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 17:58:43

"I suppose I'm treading on eggshells around him, hoping he will come round to the right decision."

That sounds very arrogant I am sorry to say. He has already come to the decision that is "right" for him, he is just it isn't right for you.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 18:04:30

OP I'd be more concerned with his dishonesty, even though he knew you wanted kids, and then chopping and changing his made at will, do you really wanna be with a man who raises your hopes and then slashes them to pieces.

LaCiccolina Wed 09-Jan-13 18:05:00

It's over. It's just a question of semantics. U will not resolve this. Much like an affair it will return to the surface time and again.

He will not change and in no way can u /should u make him. Lets be truthful if u don't feel u can change why do u think he might?

Definition of insanity: repeating same action expecting a different outcome. Stop hitting ur head on this brick wall, ur just getting a headache.

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 18:05:49

My previous post should have said

He is hoping you will change your mind,

You are hoping he will change his mind.

I would say Boyf, I love you very much and we have had some great times together but my desire for children is too much so I am calling time on our relationship and will be moving out on X. Then say and do nothing but do leave. You can't trust him and if he spouts all his previous bollocks do not fall for it again. If he says not much then that is your answer too.

I asked DH the day we met if he wanted marriage and kids. He said yes and we started seeing each other. Now married with 3 DCs. I had previously lived with someone who didn't want marriage but I convinced myself I'd rather have him and no ring than not at all. Kidding myself and even when I did get the ring he didn't really mean it hmm.

LookBehindYou Wed 09-Jan-13 18:12:43

Your boyfriend sounds manipulative. This might be a wonderful relationship but it doesn't sound as if it's moving forward in any way. He is behaving very badly and is making you the bad guy and responsible for the breakup.

sudaname Wed 09-Jan-13 18:18:55

Was gonna say - dont let this be you !

WingDefence Wed 09-Jan-13 18:32:06

My DH (16 years older than me) was married for 15 years and he and his ExW never wanted children. Adamant on that fact.

However, when we got together he completely and utterly wanted children (and fast as he was 46 when we married). I look back now at home videos of him interacting with children in the 90s and he has always been brilliant with them, while his ExW sat in the corner, legs drawn up, not at all comfortable with them. She didn't want children and he went along with it.

So I guess what I'm saying is, if your DP really wanted to have children with you, 1) he wouldn't have 'forgotten' his vascectomy and 2) he'd have wanted to reverse it fairly soon afer falling in love with you.

His happiness in your relationship is based on the status quo, not on bringing a child into the equation. The vascectomy is almost a moot point - he doesn't want children and you are going to have to decide whether you can live with that.

I saw a programme on BBC4 this week about a fertility clinic. The head Dr said that reproduction is part of being a living being (along with movement, respiration etc if you remember any biology from school!). Of course there are people who do not want to have children but if you have 'the urge' it may only get stronger until you perceive that every woman you see is pregnant or has a baby; every other shop on the high street will seem to be a Mothercare; you will notice children everywhere.

You have tried to persuade him for 1.5 years. If you remain with him, how long do you think it would take until that 'urge' fades away? 1.5 years? 3 years? What if it only gets stronger and then it's too late.

Please, please consider finding someone else. I don't even think a trial separation will work actually. He isn't going to change his mind so it'll all be down to whether you can forget your desire for children.

Oh and one last thing - having a child is bloody amazing. Hard work at times but just amazing.

Good luck.

Tamoo Wed 09-Jan-13 18:37:45

I'd echo what others have said - no way did he 'forget' about his vasectomy for eighteen months. Crock. Of. Shit.

Also, I'd add that just because you think your partner is great for you in every other way, it doesn't mean that he is the only guy who is great for you. There's plenty out there and you are clearly an intelligent woman, thoughtful and honest, with strong family values. You're a catch, and there will be someone else out there who matches you and who will want to raise a family with you.

Leave him, take a breather, write a plan of what you'd like to do and achieve in the next 34 yrs of your life, and set to it.

BalloonSlayer Wed 09-Jan-13 18:38:05

OP - how many relationships did he have between his marriage breaking up and you?

I'd be interested to discover whether or not he had a few experiences, before meeting you, of finding a woman he really liked, dating her, mentioning his vasectomy and getting promptly dumped.

This might explain his "forgetfulness."

Thanks, Balloon, I meant to say something along those lines as well. It may not be right, but I could understand why he might have kept it quiet if that's the case - and I have known guys who ca'tn have kids be dumped immediately they have told their girlfriend, no matter their great qualities. I could imagine, if that kept happen repeatedly you might withhold the info until a time when you thought it might not be an issue for a girlfriend in the hope they might love you enough to consider not having kids. Repeat, not right, but possibly understandable.

superstarheartbreaker Wed 09-Jan-13 19:13:54

I would be really pissed off that he didn't tell you about the vasectomy. That's really selfish and devious imo. A bit of a dealbreaker no? However, I know what it's like when your in love; not easy to let go.

earlyriser Wed 09-Jan-13 19:50:34

Honestly? I really think he is trying to break up with you (pushing for a trial separation?, going back on his promise to have the reversal).

I hate to say this as you sound so very keen on him, but from the very little information you have provided, i think he is looking for a get out clause (and would rather you did the dirty deed) sad

Xales Wed 09-Jan-13 19:53:54

I agree with the last few posters.

If he had told you from the outset when you were clear you wanted children that he didn't and that he had a vasectomy to make sure of this you could have walked away without any pain or hurt.

He didn't. He deliberately didn't tell you until you were emotionally involved with him and your decision is now a lot harder.

He doesn't want children.

If you want them it is not going to be with this man.

I would end it now before you get much older sad

ErikNorseman Wed 09-Jan-13 20:12:56

You aren't going to get a baby from him. He doesn't want one, he's not physically capable and he simply won't go through all that's involved to conceive one via IVF. You need to get your head round that. There are no ultimatums here - it's stay with him and accept no baby, or leave him and make it possible. You won't have a baby by him, no way no how. Sorry.

VBisme Wed 09-Jan-13 20:22:24

Reversing a vasectomy isn't very easy either, even if he had it reversed it wouldn't necessarily work.

I'd find someone who could give you children and wanted to.

perfectstorm Wed 09-Jan-13 20:43:24

I have no advice, I just wanted to send love and say how sorry I am you're in this situation. It's a painful one where there's no perfect option, isn't it? I hope that if you do leave it shocks him into a reversal, and at least trying. I so hope things work out for you.

cuillereasoupe Wed 09-Jan-13 20:50:08

I'd be looking at sperm donation if I were you.

cuillereasoupe Wed 09-Jan-13 20:50:35

^and egg freezing.

Nodney Wed 09-Jan-13 21:09:34

OP I really feel for you. I was in exactly the same position 11 years ago. My ex told me on our first date that he'd had a vasectomy and loved his 2 DSs so much he would never consider more children (he was divorced). Kids weren't on my radar and he was special, so I stayed with him. 18 months on in a great relationship with him and his 2DSs, I realised that one day I wanted to be a mummy too.... After many tears (both of us) we split up and I was heart broken. I met a man a year later who turned out to be the love of my life. Eventually we married and spent 3 years TTC. Much IVF later and I have 2 DSs and a third DS on the way. I rarely give my ex a thought. Really hope you come to the right decision for you. Big Hug

SorryMyCandyCaneLollipop Wed 09-Jan-13 21:33:45

OP - there are lots of lovely men out there. You appear to have honed your twat radar a bit over the years and you can fall in love again.

Parenting is really hard work, especially when you try so hard to fight for it! It puts more pressure on, and in your case it is very one sided.

We had fertility problems, H (who was fantastic with kids and desperate to be a dad) wanted medical treatment (which we tried unsuccessfully up to a point) I wanted to adopt. I waited for him to bring the subject of adoption up again before we went ahead as I needed to be sure that he really wanted to, that I wasn't pressurising him iyswim.

We adopted two DC's, he turned out to be a terrible father, I kicked him out, we are getting divorced.

If we hadn't had kids I would have probably stayed with him as parenting changed him into a selfish angry monster.

You CANNOT predict what someone will be like as a parent, with the pressure that goes with it - nothing can prepare you.

Your "lovely" relationship is changed forever by this issue, whether you separate/stay together with or without children.

I am also fairly sure that he did not forget about his vasectomy. That is a red flag. Also that he refuses to discuss the issue and you are walking on eggshells.

I advise that you plan a future without him.

ImperialBlether Wed 09-Jan-13 22:00:46

OP, did the two of you discuss contraception when you first met? How did that conversation go?

I would have thought that, contraception aside (if that's possible), the first time you said you wanted a baby, he should have said that that would not be possible with him. You were what, 31 then? And he would know that if you were to get pregnant, you'd need to start to plan. He didn't say a word.

How did you find out about the vasectomy?

Just another thing... if you two split up it's inevitable that at some point he'll have another girlfriend. It's more than likely she'll have a child herself. He could go younger, of course, but then risks her wanting a child later. The only way he can have a romantic relationship is to say in the first week of meeting - I have no children. I don't want any children. I have no intention of having any children. He doesn't do that, does he?

Nuttybiscuits Wed 09-Jan-13 23:13:59

Hi everyone - well, after the flood of support and overwhelming encouragement I took the plunge tonight. He came home, acting like all was well with the world - I told him we had to make a decision now.

He said that although he loves me, he still really doesn't want kids. I packed my bags - he got upset, said that he realises he's messing up the best thing that ever happened to him, can't believe he's doing this to us, but just didn't want to risk trying for a child. I left.

I'll be fine, but its the hardest saddest thing I have ever done. Thank you all for your support smile xx

sleepyhead Wed 09-Jan-13 23:16:17

Oh I'm sorry nuttybiscuits. I do think you've made the best decision for your peace of mind though.

Best wishes for the future - you'll get through this.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 23:51:23

Nutty If the desire to have children is strong, then you did the right thing, he should have told you long ago, keep going girl, you'll do just fine x

drjohnsonscat Wed 09-Jan-13 23:51:41

Nutty I'm so sorry. What a turmoil you must be in. You only posted this morning...

I'm sure you are doing the right thing although it must feel very wrong right now. Sending you best wishes.

Mimishimi Thu 10-Jan-13 00:11:07

I think it's time to move on . If he feels so strongly about it, you would definitely not want him to feel that you had forced his hand once you did have children..

PipinJo Thu 10-Jan-13 00:26:43

Nutty may you be blessed with many children and the love you will feel holding your first, 2nd, 3rd will realize there is no stronger love!

My DB has had a reversal for his DP as he has 5 dc from his first marriage and a fab dad to them (grown up now) and he is looking forward to being a dad again, sadly his GF has had to have small op this week as her fertility is the issue and I wish them lots of happiness and pitter patter of tiny feet too in the future!

Some people want dc some don't respect his honesty today (thankfully he was as this could carry on for years more).

BadLad Thu 10-Jan-13 05:33:33

Not read all the thread, but this was the issue for my first wife and I - she wanted kids, and I didn't, so what can you do?

LovesBeingAtHomeForChristmas Thu 10-Jan-13 05:53:44

Good for you op.

My question was going to be what he did say during the time you didn't know and yet mentioned that you did want children.

Now is the time to stay strong because you may want to go back to him. Please make sure this is decided by your head not your heart.

FergusSingsTheBlues Thu 10-Jan-13 06:28:12

Well done, OP. i did similar, was married and pregnant under two years later at 35. Never give up. It takes courage to walk away, and that was the best thing I did.

I was the one who didnt want kids, btw!

pumpkinsweetieMasPudding Thu 10-Jan-13 06:42:54

Good for you Nutty, i'm sure things will work out for you in the end.
Having a baby is a natural progression of most relationships and if a one half of a couple cannot be sure what they want then leaving is for the best, however hard.
It's just a shame he led you up the garden path for so long, leading you into believing he had changed his mind when infact he hadn'tsad
Bestwishes with your future opsmile

curryeater Thu 10-Jan-13 07:14:04

Where are you now Nutty? I hope you have somewhere nice to stay while you sort yourself out.
you will look back on this and be proud that you rescued your future and your autonomy with such dignity.

fayster Thu 10-Jan-13 08:08:53

Nutty, I'm so sorry you've had to make this decision, but I wanted to say that I think you've done the right thing. I spent 6 years in a very similar situation. I'm going to tell you my story so you can see what the alternative to leaving could have been.

In my case, he didn't forget his V, before we were in a relationship he said he knew how important having children was to me, and would get it reversed to have children with me, but then spent the next 6 years changing his mind back and forth. On one occasion, he'd even had the VR booked for a few months, and then cancelled the day before. I honestly think, like others have said, that he thought I would just say 'ok, I can see this is hard for you, let's not bother.' And when I didn't, would say that he would understand if I wanted to end it, and then he'd change his mind back, and say he'd do it. Then he wouldn't, because he was scared of the op, so we opted to use donor sperm.

Eventually, when I was 41, just a couple of months after I'd had a miscarriage, he left me for a woman he'd been seeing on the side, whose own children were grown up.

That was the best thing he could have done. I was so messed up by then, because of his repeated changes of mind (and my own issues), that I couldn't see what the other ladies here have seen straight away in your OP. I have no problem with him not wanting children - he's a selfish man who's a very poor father to the children he had before his V (he never wanted them, either, and they know this) and is absolutely right that he's not cut out for fatherhood. What I still struggle with is that he messed me around, and effectively took away my chance of motherhood, so that he could maintain the relationship and lifestyle he wanted

Nutty, you are a lot younger than I was, and I'm so pleased for you that you've got this chance to have the future you want. Even if it turns out not to have children in it, I'm afraid I think it will be better without this man. I'd also had disastrous relationships before, and have taken the time now to work out why, and why I put up with my ex and his games for so long.

I wish you the best of luck.

CailinDana Thu 10-Jan-13 08:21:58

Well done. I definitely think you've done the right thing. The hard part now will be staying strong and staying away. Don't be fooled by any promises he gives you - unless he actually invites you to accompany to him to the hospital while he has his vasectomy reversal, assume it's all lies. Even then, bear in mind that a reversal might not work so getting back with him might still mean no children.

How are you feeling?

Orchidlady Thu 10-Jan-13 08:43:26

nutty I think you have been very brave, hope things work out for you. My DP always maintained he did not want children and I did so I sat him down and said either we have a child together or I had to move on, he agreed and DS2 was conceived almost immediately, sad part is he totally resents me said I forced him. ( bloody man child) Wish I had split with him then but hoped he would love being a dad, he never has, should have listened to my gut instinct sad

AmandaPayne Thu 10-Jan-13 09:00:18

You have been very brave. Hang in there. x

Astelia Thu 10-Jan-13 09:13:43

Good for you Nutty, this is the start of a new life for you in which you can do what you want. Be strong and stay away from him as others have said, don't get sucked back in.

dequoisagitil Thu 10-Jan-13 09:26:07

Well done nutty. It must hurt so much, but at least you know the score and you can look for the future you want.

WingDefence Thu 10-Jan-13 09:41:29

I know you must hurt so much at the moment but we are all right behind you.

Take care thanks

Lavenderhoney Thu 10-Jan-13 09:42:26

Well done for that op, I hope you have a good place to go. Gather your friends, tell them, and make a plan for every night and weekend, even if it's just home spa or something.

Don't talk to him for a few weeks to let any emotional attachment that might cloud your decision to leave make you want to go back.

You sound very empowered and it's your life. You only go round once.

DistanceCall Thu 10-Jan-13 09:42:58

I don't mean to be hard on you. But didn't you know that you wanted children when you were younger? Are you sure that your desire for them is so strong, or maybe it's just what you think you should want?

I find it hard to believe that someone can have a burning desire to have children and not realise until she is in her mid-thirties, to be honest.

DistanceCall Thu 10-Jan-13 09:45:06

That said, it is also very, very odd that he didn't mention his desire not to have children (AND his vasectomy) right from the start.

All the best of luck to you, OP. I hope you find what you want, I really do.

piratecat Thu 10-Jan-13 09:46:22

she says she does!! sometimes it comes later for people. he withheld a very important fact from her.

i had no desire for children when i was in my twenties either, never crossed my mind.

piratecat Thu 10-Jan-13 09:47:09

op, i hope too that you find your way through this, you have been brave yes, but you only have one life luvvy. xxx

BookieMonster Thu 10-Jan-13 10:10:34

Well done, Nutty. The year long lie would have been a deal breaker for me.

PoshCat Thu 10-Jan-13 10:19:27

Nutty, it hurts now but you're free now to have your happy ending.
I met my OH aged 35. We now have three wonderful kids.
Good luck. You have made the right decision.

izzyizin Thu 10-Jan-13 10:35:32

I once knew a very well heeled single man who, being adamant that he did not want dc, had a vasectomy without his gf's knowledge.

He didn't just not want to have dc with her, he also didn't want paternity suits winging his way from any of the ow he was screwing.

SolidGoldFrankensteinandmurgh Thu 10-Jan-13 10:35:46

Well done. Also, to an extent, well done him for finally speaking up clearly and saying he doesn't want children, rather than bleating and begging and promising to 'think about it'.

And one more cheering thought for you: despite all the voices of doom about women's fertility declining in their 30s, I had my DS at the age of 39 and he was unplanned, so it can and does happen.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Thu 10-Jan-13 10:52:58

My mum got pregnant at 41, unplanned, after 16 years after she had me.

nickelbabe Thu 10-Jan-13 11:00:45

well done, both of you.

I'm glad he was totally honest and didn't try to string you along.
and that you found the strength you need.

FairPhyllis Thu 10-Jan-13 11:09:59

I didn't think you'd do it - well done.

I don't think this relationship was as good as you thought it was - he strikes me as very manipulative, waiting until you were heavily emotionally invested in the relationship to spring the news of the vasectomy despite knowing you wanted kids, and saying he "forgot" he'd had one ("forgot" my arse!). Even if you don't ever have children, you deserve a better relationship than the one with him - you sound lovely.

StuckOnARollercoaster Thu 10-Jan-13 12:04:52

Oh good luck OP, it must be one hell of a turmoil at the moment. Keep your friends, family and MN close for support.
Don't want to sound patronising - but very proud that you have taken a tough decision - first step towards a positive and fulfilling life for you, and fingers crossed that includes a good man and a family eventually.

Oh Nutty, you have been so brave. And I believe you have done the right thing. I have been through this myself and am in the process of selling the house we shared. It's bloody hard, but you will get through it.

JustFabulous Thu 10-Jan-13 13:12:14

Well done for doing what is right for you and being true to yourself unlike him who can't be true to the woman he says he loves.

Saying "I can't believe I am doing this to you" is just bollocks. He thinks it sounds good, shows he has no control. Is bollocks. I may have said that already hmmgrin.

Growlithe Thu 10-Jan-13 17:01:08

Hope you are ok Nutty.

Stay strong. It is tough but if you believe, deep down, you made the right decision for the right reasons, it will be OK.

Dozer Thu 10-Jan-13 19:06:12

He is nowhere near as nice as you think OP, the way he treated you was shabby: dishonesty, not telling you about the vasectomy until well into the relationship, then messing you around for two years with the will-he / won't he, "we're so great together", "I'm hurting you soooo much" bullshit. Bet he's lied about other things too.

A vasectomy reversal would in any case mean only a slim chance of him becoming a biological father, even assuming no other fertility problems. And might mean you had to have ivf. He would not be someone who would support you through, say, fertility treatment or a miscarriage. He would always waver and create yet more pain and drama.

No-contact is the way to go, otherwise he will mess with your head and make it difficult to move on.

SorryMyLollipop Thu 10-Jan-13 20:29:36

Nutty well done, you have done the right thing. Hope you are ok

pylonic Thu 10-Jan-13 22:49:44


Get a puppy.

Good luck. You are doing the right thing.

You cannot force another person to go through surgery and fatherhood against their will.

You cannot bring a child to this world who has a father who does not want him/her.

aufaniae Thu 10-Jan-13 22:59:25

Nutty I hope you are OK. FWIW I think you did the right thing.

I always wanted kids and thought I'd missed the boat. At 33 I was escaping from a relationship with an arsehole.

Just over 5 years later I'm with a lovely man, we have a gorgeous 4yo boy and a little girl on the way too.

It can all happen very quickly! Wishing you luck and strength smile

pylonic, why dont you just offer the op your children, when clearly you dont want to parent?

nkf Thu 10-Jan-13 23:07:20

I think having a vasectomy before you've had children is an extraordinary and extreme thing to do. I think he isn't father material and if you want children very badly, you will have to leave.

nkf Thu 10-Jan-13 23:08:38

I see you've already made the decision. Well done. And All the best for the futur.e

Nuttybiscuits Sat 12-Jan-13 09:21:36

Hi everyone - I'm finally back online after turning my life upside down.

I just wanted to say thank you all so much for your overwhelming support. As someone pointed out up thread, I only posted that morning, then made the decision to leave that day. Truth is, I had been turning this problem over by myself for two weeks, and scouring the likes of MN looking for answers. I finally decided to post my own question, and had over 145 responses by the end of the day. I can't believe how many people took the time to offer support thanks

It really helped me to focus my mind and bring the issue to a head. Leaving was awful, but I'm incredibly lucky (or sensible) to have kept my own house when I moved in with BF, so I just moved straight back in to my own place, family and friends all around me.

Life is ok - I have realised how much I missed being here, so I'm quite content. BF is telling me that he realises he's made a huge mess, loves me and can't believe what an idiot he is being - it literally took me leaving for him to realise the consequences of his actions. He couldn't imagine it happening until it actually did. He is currently trying to figure out if he can change his mind on the kids thing - but I won't be going back unless I can accompany him to the surgery and watch them cutting open his balls

Thank you all again for being there, it means a lot

Well done.

Stay strong - a hundred MNetters are holding your hand.

Doha Sat 12-Jan-13 09:43:10

Oh Nutty just read this thread-you have made an incredibly tough decision and l admire you for your strength and resolve.
Have you considered what you would do IF you did go back after he agreed to get his vasectomy reversed and it is unsuccessful--the reversal operation has a very very poor success rate?
Anyway yet another MNer holding your hand x

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 10:00:07

Honestly, in his desperation to keep you now you've left, if he did have the reversal and on a slim chance it did work - you would still know that he didn't want dc...

Getting forced into changing his mind by the loss of you is not good enough for your potential dc. They deserve better. I can't imagine that could lead to a happy outcome in parenting - the temptation would be so strong, when the going gets tough (and it does), for him to throw it in your face and expect you to take the brunt because he never wanted dc. And the potential for him to (accidentally or not) transmit that feeling of not being wanted to the dc? No, not good.

I think it'd be better for you both to draw the line and accept you want different things in life.

CailinDana Sat 12-Jan-13 10:11:05

I agree with dequois - if he does agree to the vasectomy reversal it won't be because he suddenly wants children, it's because he wants to hang onto you (which, remember, he was doing up until now by lying to you). I would see this as the end, completely, and just start moving on.

I would think the chances of him being able to father a child with a reversal very slim too.

Take care of yourself and be Happy.

Lovecat Sat 12-Jan-13 12:03:34

Coming very late to this, Nutty, and glad that you've put some space between you as it does seem from your posts that he's dead set against children for a variety of reasons and has been stringing you along.

However, it is possible to harvest sperm directly from the testes/tissue (sorry, not up on the exact details) without reversing a vasectomy, and then creating an embryo using ICSI. A colleague of mine had had a vs after 2 children with his first wife - they divorced and he then met another woman who wanted children. He's a good few years older than her and was advised that the vs reversal may not work, so that was the route they took instead. Expensive, but they now have 3 children together (2nd child turned out to be twins).

Having said that, I think this man has made it painfully clear that he doesn't want children - he may well seem like great father material on the face of it, but when he has a child demanding attention when he wants to watch football/relax/go out/whatever, it becomes a different matter. I thought DH would be a great father, and when he's 'on', to be fair, he is. However as we all get older (we didn't have DD til our late 30's), I'm noticing he's far less patient and far more irritated at having to make compromises because of having to account for DD in the mix - and he was the one who wanted children, more than I did! Given that your partner comes from a position of not wanting children, I can't see him being all that tolerant. He didn't have a great role model either, from your posts, so I would be very doubtful on that score.

I can't remember the exact phrase, but he's told you who he is. Listen to him - he won't change.

Wishing you luck and happiness for the future smile

FairPhyllis Sat 12-Jan-13 12:11:47

Glad you have your own place. To be honest, I think he sounds very selfish - it is only now that he has lost something that he is giving any thought to your feelings. This would be enough to confirm for me that he's just not a good partner. He really thought that you would just suck it up for the rest of your life on something so important.

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange Sat 12-Jan-13 16:25:25

I've read this thread from start to finish today, so didn't realise the outcome would be OP leaving her partner.

I have to say I was rooting for you doing this OP - well done.

I don't think you can trust him to be sincere if he does tell you he will get the VR done. He's not scared of surgery or he wouldn't have had a vasectomy when he did. He would only be offering to have the surgery to get you back and would probably be hoping that it wouldn't work anyway, which it probably wouldn't

You've done really well to get rid of him, do stick with it if you want to be a mum because as others have said, you will not have children with this man.

I knew that my own need to be a mum would always trump my feelings for any man and I would have done what you did. Hoping that you meet someone lovely before too long, who will be as committed to becoming a parent as you are. smile

Dozer Sat 12-Jan-13 18:04:13

It wouldn't just be the surgery, it'd be the uncertainty and possible procedures (for you both), money for, pressure of treatment etc afterwards. All the while not having confidence of his commitment or truthfulness.

Do you know anyone that has experienced fertility problems or gone through IVF multiple times? Testing on any relationship, let alone one where someone doesn't want DC.

Nuttybiscuits Sat 12-Jan-13 18:19:58

Lovecat yes I know ICSI could be an option - however, we kind of decided (before he bailed out on me!!) that it was unfair for me to go through the procedure without us having tried the 'natural' way first - although I do wonder whether a VR would be a waste of time, and if we do decide to go for it, ICSI might be the better option.

What scares me is that I wouldn't want to begin any ICSI procedure just yet, I'd rather wait until next year. So, I wouldn't have anything 'concrete' from him, he wouldn't have to do anything, and could still change his mind at any time. So I wonder, am I insisting on a VR just to make him do something... which is clearly not the best reason..

Anyway, all of this is pie in the sky at the mo, because we are separated. He contacted me today to tell me that he loves and misses me, and can we meet tomorrow. He asked whether we can make this work - I told him there is only one way to make it work, which is of course to agree to try. But I am very apprehensive about agreeing to anything, given his past form, and am wary of him agreeing to try just to keep me. It will take a lot more than that.

Dozer yes I do worry about how difficult this path will be for us, if we do go for it. Somehow, if we do go for it, I will have to have a lot of reassurance from him that he is committed.

I don't have any doubts about his ability as a parent though, despite his reluctance. He always assured me that if he decided to go for this, he would want to be sure so that he could give the child 100% He's a patient, kind, caring man - I'm certain he would extend that to his own offspring.

Time to wait and see what he comes up with tomorrow. In the meantime, I'm doing fine. I would tell anyone going through a similar situation, that finally taking control of things and taking action is very empowering - anyone wavering, just do it!

GregBishopsBottomBitch Sat 12-Jan-13 18:38:59

Nutty I'd be wary of a man who had kids to please his partner, rather than have them basic he wants them, thats how resentment starts.

Also this man played a devious game, you need to think long and hard, if your ready to believe hes changed.

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange Sat 12-Jan-13 18:48:46

Time to wait and see what he comes up with tomorrow.

I'm with Greg. You shouldn't be meeting him tomorrow... how can things have changed in such a short time? He wants to keep you and will probably say what you want to hear... he is good at getting things on his own terms, isn't he?

Your last post was mostly about agonising about fertility treatment options the pair of you might have. You say you are 'separated' but you aren't really, are you? Not in your mind.

twoyearsandcounting Sat 12-Jan-13 18:58:21

If you stay together one of you Will be in a situation you resent. I agree with so many of the things people have said here that it's pointless saying it again. All i will say is you shouldn't give up your dream for him. It isn't like you can comprise. Good luck.

Nuttybiscuits Sat 12-Jan-13 19:06:48

Yeah, you're all right I'm just clinging to hope that he'll change his mind and this whole nightmare will be over.... I'll get my realistic head back on soon though. I must say Tiredofwaitingforitalltochange your username is very apt, wish I had thought of that one!

I would say though, in response to Greg, that pretty much everyone I have spoken to in RL have said that their own partners didn't really want kids at that point in time and just went along with it because their wives/GFs did. I think that's pretty much the norm in my experience, and of course they're all smitten with their families now, just needed a kick up the bum in the right direction. I am very wary of creating a situation where one of us would resent the other, would need to be pretty sure of things if we are to move forward.

Of course, all of this is pointless to be thinking about at the moment, I'm just clutching at straws. Time to get on with Real Life - have a good Saturday night everyone!

Lavenderhoney Sat 12-Jan-13 19:07:21

Hi there op, how nice you feel at home and content so fast. That should tell you you are ok and perhaps have checked out already and are relieved its all over.

Remember he lied and strng you along. Of course he misses you, but the old you, who didn't know about the v so bumbled along happily then did know and with a slow realisation you were being messed around but still pandered to his dithering.

Now the real you is there, one who wants kids and with someone else who wants to share the adventure with you. So you are not compatible for a very fundamental reason. It would really be better to leave it for a month with no contact and you go out, have dinner parties and behave like a single lady. Not a couple on a break.

Meeting him so soon to go over old ground- not so good. Have the split, let him also get his life together and meet new people. It will be a long time til you can be just friends.

ipdipdog Sat 12-Jan-13 19:20:15

There is a HUGE difference between ambivalence about having a baby and having a vasectomy at 25 and forgetting to mention it for so long. I really think you need to knock this on the head.

Nuttybiscuits Sat 12-Jan-13 19:24:45

LOL Ipdipdog I read that as "I really think you need a knock on your head"... and thought "alright, no need for violence"!

Lavender - good advice there, thank you. Unfortunately, I have to see him to get my stuff, and don't want to avoid talking about things, just prolongs the agony. But I'm not rushing back anywhere, so I'll get my space. Plus, I can't face going over old ground, so bored of talking about it!

dequoisagitil Sat 12-Jan-13 19:45:24

It's easy to say he would put 100% into being a parent if it happened, in the same way that it was easy for him to say he'd forgotten his vasectomy, and that he'd go for the reversal.

Problem is, he doesn't live up to his promises and you have fooled yourself as much as he deceived you.

You have wanted to believe him, of course you have, and you haven't properly listened when he has told you what you don't want to hear in the past. I hope you've really heard him this last time, when he told you he didn't want kids and you left. Let go of that malignant optimism.

As ipdipdog says, there's a huge difference between someone who had a vasectomy in their 20s and has never wanted dc, and someone who is ambivalent.

Don't get sucked back in by promises.

CaseyShraeger Sat 12-Jan-13 19:51:38

There's a significant difference between "didn't really want children" and "really didn't want children", and someone who has a vasectomy at 25 is in the latter category.

wendle70 Sun 20-Jan-13 17:07:27

Nutty biscuits I saw your thread and I couldn't belive it - I am going through exactly the same decision process myself except my boyfriend doesn't want kids because he is recently divorced with 2 kids already. It is such an impossible decision. I saw from your post that you decided to end it and walk away a few weeks ago - how are you feeling now? I also have been thinking of ending it and seeing if that will be enough to prompt him into action but I don't like issuing ultimatums - it doesn't feel very adult. Did you consider counselling?

dequoisagitil Sun 20-Jan-13 17:11:40

It's not about ultimatums, wendle, it's about making sure you want the same fundamental things in life. If you don't, you're better off splitting sooner than later.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sun 20-Jan-13 18:53:46

OP, I hope it went ok today.

Nuttybiscuits Thu 24-Jan-13 14:48:04

Hi all - wanted to give you an update.

After posting this thread, the overwhelming support on here helped me to make up my mind to leave BF. It was heartbreaking for both of us. 4 days later, he came to me and told me that he could finally see things clearly. He loves me, doesn't want to lose me, and has realised that having a child would be lovely as well as scary. In his words, he was blinkered by all the pressure, and once the pressure went, he could finally see clearly. Ironically, he told me he had been reading internet forums (maybe here?!) and realised that all the fears he had about having a child were totally normal, and it really helped him realise that he was being silly.

We had lots more talking, with me wondering whether this was real, whether I could trust him this time. He really has turned a corner - and last night, he booked the vasectomy reversal. We are having it done in March, and he is really positive about it!

I still feel a little shell shocked from the whole thing, and struggle sometimes to trust the strength of our relationship - he let me leave, and that has shaken my faith in his love for me. BUT, leaving was the best thing I could have done. I have never really understood men's need for 'space to think' before - I always thought that it was better to talk things out. But I have seen that a little space can give time to reflect and think about things properly. It saved our relationship. I haven't moved back in with him yet, taking some time for myself and my family before I do. But I am thrilled to be able to look forward to TTCing 'like a normal couple' soon!

Wendle - I too was wary of 'ultimatums', and it really wasn't like that. We had talked this through for 18 months, and we both came to the agreement that if we stayed together, I would come to resent him in the long term if he never tried for a baby. So when I left, it wasn't a case of "do this or I'm leaving", it was more "You really can't do this, so we both agree that we have come to the end of the road". I didn't do it to shock him into action, as I really genuinely believed that he had made up his mind and there was no other option. Obviously I still had a glimmer of hope that he could change his mind, and in my case I was right. We still loved each other and couldn't let go. But I would strongly advise you to talk things through with your DP, and consider all options.

In your case, could you compromise and wait a year or so? He may feel very differently once the divorce is further behind him. Be careful not to threaten anything you aren't willing to see through, it will only undermine your argument in the long run. If he loves you, he will see sense. Good luck xx

And thank you MNers for all the advice and support! thanks

FairPhyllis Thu 24-Jan-13 15:22:55


Are you comfortable with the fact that the vasectomy reversal may not work? It's very possible that it will not after such a long time. Will he be prepared to undergo IVF if it doesn't work? Or is he saying he'll do it in the knowledge it is unlikely to work?

Does him agreeing to the reversal cancel out the knowledge he thought it was fine to string you along and lie to you for a year?

Have you actually talked about how your lives would change as a result of having a child? Because the impression I have developed of him here is of someone who would resent making the sacrifices that you have to make if you are a parent. He doesn't personally have a good parental model from his own family either.

MyHeadWasInTheSandNowNot Thu 24-Jan-13 15:41:46

I hope it all works out for you and you are posting on the pregnancy board before we know it smile

My own story along those lines didn't end so well. He's still not had kids though, 20 years later, and it was the right decision for us to separate, even though it was hard at the time.

I wouldn't move back in until he's had it done if it were me and I'd be going to his appointments just so I could be 100% sure he'd had a vasectomy in the first place and the reversal - or I'd always have that little niggle. 'Forgetting' you've had a vasectomy is just a little bit too odd for me to take on face value.

Good luck

Nuttybiscuits Thu 24-Jan-13 16:01:28

Yes - I know the success rates of VR, and we are both prepared for a long TTC journey. DP is actually more optimistic on this than I am, but we are being realistic. His attitude though is that he wouldn't be putting himself through this if he thought it wouldn't work, and he is full of positivity about the whole thing. We have agreed that we will try IVF or ICSI if necessary, and he agrees that it is up to me how many cycles we try for.

What I'm doing is essentially agreeing to be with a man who, in all likelihood, will be at best sub-fertile. I can accept that, if we face it together and try for the best. We are looking forward to TTC for a year or so, before facing the next step if necessary.

His agreeing to the VR of course doesn't cancel out what he did before - but I have a choice here - do I hang on to negative feelings and bear a grudge, which will damage our relationship even more? Or do I put it behind me, accept that he was an idiot and made some bit mistakes, forgive him and get on with it? I have forgiven him, and feel confident that I'm doing the right thing. People have forgiven far worse - bearing a grudge won't help me or him.

As for talking about how our lives would change - yes of course, we talk about that every day! It's exciting, scary, daunting of course - but in that way we are no different to any other couple facing that for the first time. As for him being someone prepared to make sacrifices - yes, he did say himself that he was worried that he would resent giving things up. But I am 100% confident in his ability to be a good father, I have no doubt about that. It's true he didn't have a good father figure, and people can either follow in the bad example of their parents, or recognise their faults and do their best not to follow them. Plus he has a good relationship with his mother, and there are plenty of men out there who have had bad fathers who have gone on to become excellent parents. They're not all doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

Forgiveness and optimism - not blind misguided optimism, but careful considered positive thinking - are the aim here. I believe we are strong enough to pull it off, and if we aren't lucky enough to conceive, we are strong enough to deal with that.

Nuttybiscuits Thu 24-Jan-13 16:07:33

I have seen his doctors letter proving he had the V - it was good news actually, as it turned out he had it 2 years later than he thought, so not as bad as I thought!

The VR appointment is a consultation and operation on the same day - only one appointment. But I'll be there to drive him home.

I think one of the clinchers for me, when he told me he had changed his mind - I asked him, if we split up, would you still want kids with someone else. He said yes. He really did turn a corner.

I hope to be posting on the pregnancy board soon too, but I'll probably be residing in the 'trying to conceive' threads for a while...

bestsonever Thu 24-Jan-13 16:24:19

He must have had strong reasons for having the V in the first place, so be careful. It really does take the shine off things when having a child with someone who really is not keen and just going along with it. Not all men get suddenly smitten, my son's F didn't and couldn't bond at all, he predicted quite rightly that he would be crap as a parent.

People can change their minds and mean it. I never wanted kids, ever. I knew that from a very young child. I explained to DH before we married that this was the case, and he accepted it. Only he didn't really, and spent years desperate for a family. After 13 years together I changed my mind. It was not a ruse to keep him happy, it was about me. I am due my first very soon, and believe me this baby is the most important and wonderful thing that has ever happened to me. Thank god I didn't leave it too late.

Good luck OP, I hope your future baby means as much to you both as mine means to me and my DH.

Nuttybiscuits Thu 24-Jan-13 22:00:24

Thank you, that really made me smile (and almost cry). There is a lot of (totally understandable) scepticism on this thread that he can change his mind and mean it. Your story proves it does happen, and I'm not a total mug for having faith in my DP. Thank you for posting.

Really happy for you, good luck with the baby

meditrina Thu 24-Jan-13 22:04:51

I'm wishing you luck.

But suggest you make it clear (if you can) that he's on probation IYSWIM until the op has actually taken place.

Nuttybiscuits Thu 24-Jan-13 22:14:31

Yup, he knows that he's on probation until I see those stitches wink

I feel so relieved to be able to get on with the rest of our lives now. Just hope I don't get obsessed with ttc ...

wendle70 Sun 27-Jan-13 16:33:33

Nuttybiscuits I am so happy to read that (and almost made me cry - man I must be hormonal)! I so hope it all works out for you smile

Things have progressed since I last that they have worsened. I can't seem to be able to put this issue to one side any longer (although I agree I wish I could give it a year more). We are both trying to find counsellors asap. This weekend has been ruined like the last by this issue.

I've spent today in tears not being able to understand if what I want is OK to want and the sensible thing is to cut my losses and leave (which breaks my heart like you said) or whether I am ruining my otherwise lovely relationship due to impatience. Awful. What I do know is that we can't carry on like this so miserable for another 18 months. I also know he needs space as do I probably. I think I need to suggest that.

He mentioned today how his sister got pregnant at age 40 after not wanting kids and how she didnt originally want to have the baby but then was talked around (and is now a very happy mum of two) - and how he appreciated things can change and may change in months/years from now. It's just such a risk for me to take coming up to 36 with the fertility results I have to just wait some more.

I think we both need a bit of space and calm thinking. xx

Chesntoots Sun 27-Jan-13 21:11:32

I have never wanted children and have made it very clear at the beginning of all my relationships. Maybe part of your confusion is that he lied to you at the start, let you fall in love with him and dropped the bombshell when it was too late to easily emotionally disengage from him. He has dragged his feet thereafter. If he had been honest at the start I doubt you would have got so involved and so the decision whether to leave or not would have been easier.
Sorry - that was a ramble! Hope it makes sense.

I was the same as worsestershiresauce always made it clear I never wanted children. One failed marriage (not due to children issue) and I met the most lovely man when I was 35 and he was 32, he made it clear he always wanted children. So I sat down and had a long hard think and decided I loved him and I would give it a go. I wasn't getting any younger and I had a lovely life but felt lacking in something. I feel pregnant and was terrified, then lost the baby. I was so devastated it made me realise how much I really did want a baby. We now have DD who is 3.4 and the light of my life. No more babies though unfortunately, I am 43 this year and lost another one last year. But I am so thankful DH twisted my arm.

Nuttybiscuits Tue 29-Jan-13 00:40:54

Wendle I so feel for you - everything you've written is how I was feeling a few weeks ago. All I can say is that space worked for us, but everyone's different.

DP keeps surprising me with just how much he has changed his mind. He's still scared, but he's also looking forward to starting to try, says he doesn't want our lives to stay the same forever, he's looking forward to how our life will evolve as a family.... and that the reason he couldn't see any of this just a few weeks ago is that he had worked himself into a hole and couldn't see out of it.

I love that this thread has ended up with some really encouraging positive stories. Keep smiling.

CC813 Sun 26-May-13 06:14:17

Hi Nuttybiscuits, I just came across your post and your story is almost identical to mine except I have not yet left but have official said its over. It's such a difficult situation to be in. My boyfriend of 2.5 years always assured me he wanted children but decided to tell me the week we were suppose to be engaged that he had been struggling with the decision and had decided that he didn't want children. It was crushing to say the least. We went to therapy and he wants to want kids, whatever the hell that means. It's exhausting and I've been a mess since (this was 3 months ago). I realized that he doesn't want children and he doesn't want to want them what he wants is me. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. It's just this crappiest situation to be in. I too like yourself have never had a better happier relationship but then again if I think about it I was lied to. As much as I try to make excuses I just can't. He knew all along, this is why it was taking so long to get engaged, to move house etc. I hope that you see this and I'd love to know how things ended up going for you and your partner. Hope to hear from you soon.

Isetan Sun 26-May-13 10:15:33


Take off the rose tinted specs, your so called perfect relationship was founded on a big lie. You are both being selfish, he for lying and half heartedly wavering and you for pressuring someone whose mind has been made up for a very long time.

If you really want children then this is the wrong relationship, leave now because you may not have time.

stargirl04 Sun 26-May-13 11:58:06

OP, remember those books written by Greg Behrendt - "He's just not that into you" and "It's called a Break Up because it's broken"?

Can't remember which (I've read every self-help book going!) but in one of those he tackles this dilemma, and concludes that "not agreeing on kids is a biggie. Better to leave and find someone more compatible with your life goal", or something to that extent.

I know of five other couples who went through this exact dilemma - in all cases the woman wanted kids, the man didn't.

The first broke up with her bloke outright, and is now married to someone else with a much-loved DD. Their arguments about it created huge resentment and anger and brought the relationship to a head.

The second got pregnant by not taking her Pill and not telling DP, which she told me she was going to do "by accident". They married after he realised she was pregnant.

But after DD was born he was a terrible father, would not help with night wakings and early morning feeds etc and took little interest in the child. My friend was virtually a single mother and their relationship deteriorated to the point where she divorced him when their DD was still a toddler. Even now, he barely bothers to see his DD, which has caused my friend no end of heartache on her daughter's behalf. Life has been tough, and lonely, for my friend as a single mother with a young DD.

Ditto the third case, almost exactly. And post divorce, he can only be bothered seeing the child on his terms rather than on a regular basis.

(Both these blokes though were real losers.)

The fourth "persuaded" her reluctant DH to have children, got pregnant, had the baby but they split up when the child was a toddler.

The fifth was told by her partner when she got pregnant - "it's either me or that baby. I want you to have an abortion."

It was a very difficult decision for her because she told me that she was "besotted" with her DP. It took her a while to decide and she said it was a gradual decision, "like light coming under a door".

She chose to keep the child and they split up. She resigned herself to life as a single mum but shortly before she was due to give birth, DP got in touch and said "the three of them needed each other". They remained together until my friend sadly passed away (from cancer) a couple of years ago. Her son is now in his 20s.

I do know of another woman who resigned herself to her DP's wishes not to have children, married him and as far as I know, they are very happy.

I feel for you OP. I don't think you should try to persuade him. Either stay and truly accept that he doesn't want kids, or leave while you are still young enough so that you have a chance of realising your dream. But if you do leave, get a move on - or get your eggs frozen!

SugarPasteGreyhound Sun 26-May-13 22:06:44

Er isetan, try reading the whole thread before you climb up on your high horse hmm

gettingeasiernow Sun 26-May-13 22:45:37

It's hard to see from where you are standing now, but the love you feel for a child would probably far outweigh the love you have for DP now. So even if, years from now, you reach the point where you go it alone, you'd probably feel okay, the heartbreak would be mended by the love for the child. Depends how much you want children. Obviously you may meet someone else and it may all work out.
I also see that if you stay, he may begrudgingly have the operation in a moment of "weakness", to buy time if you like, then there would be the wait to see if it's successful, then there may be years of reduced fertility but just enough to keep you hanging on, or he may suddenly find his libido gone because he feels pushed to something he's not really convinced about, that will erode his self confidence and in the end he'll go because the pressure's just all too much for him - I'm just saying if he's not sure, he'll probably never be sure and the future looks bleak.
I'm sorry but you just can't make him want what he doesn't want. It's a huge huge deal.

wendle70 Fri 27-Sep-13 18:45:46

Hello NuttyBiscuits...I was looking on Mumsnet as I am now pregnant and I was wondering whether your situation had improved. I do hope so. I updated my post but suffice to say time and some counselling worked for us and now I am pregnant and we're both v happy (though it is a little earlier than either of us were anticipating!) Such a difficult place for women to be in though..I guess there's no magic answer but I disagree with the men never change comments. Of course people can and do change. I guess a lot of it is to do with the reason behind the fears about kids in the first place though.

Nuttybiscuits Tue 01-Oct-13 17:02:05

Hi Wendle!!

That is wonderful news, I'm so happy for you! I've been meaning to update this thread for a while, but was holding off...

My relationship with DP has gone from strength to strength. He had the vasectomy reversal operation, and although it's early days and we still don't know whether it was a success, we are currently TTC.

We are very happy, and he genuinely does want this. I too agree with posters who said that he would never change his mind. I didn't force his decision, it was his own to make, and we have never looked back. And he's a wonderful man, and would make a wonderful father if we are lucky enough for it to work for us.

I was holding off on updating as I wanted to end it with the happy news of a BFP or at least a positive result from her SA, but we haven't got there yet. I will be sure to let you know if we do smile

Nuttybiscuits Tue 01-Oct-13 17:04:58

Oh and I should add that I have come to terms with the possibility of it not working. We have a long road ahead of TTC and possibly ICSI if it doesn't work.

If that doesn't work, then I know we will have given everything we have to trying together, and at the end of the day I'm with a wonderful man who I love, and we have lots of great plans for our future with or without DCs.

Yes, being childless will break my heart. But I won't resent him if it comes to that - he has tried his very best and we are lucky to have found each other.

Sorry if that sounds puke-making....

wendle70 Thu 03-Oct-13 18:36:22

Ahh I am pleased that sounds great! Wishing you lots of luck and keep us posted. Also agree, the fact he went through with the op and you are TTC speaks volumes about what a great guy he is. Fantastic!

Finney2 Thu 03-Oct-13 23:15:08

What a lovely update. Good luck OP XX

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