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UPDATE: I've packed up his stuff! And now I'm pregnant.

(111 Posts)
tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 11:57:10

This is the previous thread This is a light-hearted and fun thread and I really enjoyed it, and thanks to all who posted. I didn't list all the things he'd done but they included giving me two black eyes, restricting my social life and trying to restrict my work plus expecting me to pay for everything and do all the cooking and housework.

So, the relationship is over and I feel 100% positive about that. My further troubles are nothing to do with him. My first thoughts about him in regards to this are negative; I won't tell him and I will never set eyes on him again, if I can help it. I have to be honest and say I'm scared of him.

Onwards to this morning. My period is late, I'm very regular so I POAS and I'm pregnant. I want to talk about this.

I'm 38 and have never consciously wanted a child but this is probably my last chance. I got pregnant 10 years ago (in the dying embers of a relationship then too hmm) and there was no question that I wanted to terminate and I did. I don't have the same sureness about terminating this time. How do I make the decision?

Lueji Wed 09-Jan-13 12:03:01


Make a list of pros and cons?

Can you imagine yourself having the baby around? How would you organise your life, for example?

On the other hand, how would you feel if you lost this baby now?

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 12:04:19

There's no decision to make unless/until you have a postiive pg test.

Until then it's mere speculation but I don't think there'll be many prizes for guessing the way it will go if, should you be pg, you decide not to terminate.

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:06:16

I can imagine that warm heavy feeling of a sweet smelling baby in my arms (nieces and nephews here) but my JOB and money! And ever finding another man again....

My long term (or short but significant) relationships go in 8 year cycles My last one ended in 2005, the one before that ended in late 90s. Seriously - my next one is due when I'm 46.

I have no idea what I'm talking about sad

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:07:25

POAS means Pee On A Stick, izzy smile Unless it's a faulty Superdrug stick them I'm pregnant.

I think she said she is pregnant izzy

And I don't quite follow you about the bit about there being no prizes for guessing the way it will go ?

I think the options as far as OP are concerned are either independent life without a baby or independent life with one !

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 12:10:16

POAS? I have no idea what you're talking about either smile

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:10:24

I don't physically want one - I am fat and dumpy enough as it is (not an exaggeration). On my way to buy this bloody stick this morning I was idly thinking about how could I lose 6 stone while being pregnant grinshocksad

If you're not 100% on a termination, then there are other options, obviously keeping the baby is one of them. if you do decide to keep the baby:

Do you have family near who could childmind? Does your employer offer childcare vouchers? Many mothers work full time and have small babies, it's not easy butIit can be done.

POAS- pee on a stick

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:13:26

No family near. We are a small family and my mum helps out my DB who does 50/50 with 3DCs. They are on the South Coast and I'm in London and moving back is out of the question

Thanks for mentioning that - it will go on my Pro/Con list.

Lueji Wed 09-Jan-13 12:16:36

And ever finding another man again....

That is not necessarily true.
Lots of single mums find partners.

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:17:51

I have failed to find one being free and single sad. It sort of makes me think that I should just face that and give up and do this other thing instead....

lemonstartree Wed 09-Jan-13 12:18:28

I will say somethig I expect to get flamed for.

I was in your position 15 yeras go. I had the child alone. Unfortunately my ds is very very like his waste of space father ( who has never even seen him, so its NOt nuture) I have come to believe that genetics will out and I would not make the same decision again. Think how you will feel if you have a child which is just like him ?

Lueji Wed 09-Jan-13 12:19:01

Maybe the baby will attract men? smile

Maybe you will start looking at different types of men?

I don't think you should make your choice based on possible future relationships.

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:20:13

I don't think you should make your choice based on possible future relationships.

What shall I make the decision on? Please tell me, precisely and in detail! grin

HighBrows Wed 09-Jan-13 12:20:24

Tzella have you other children and if so what ages.
I agree with the pros and cons list.

Good for you on getting rid of the cocklodger.

Lueji Wed 09-Jan-13 12:20:59

Or he/she will be very much like tzella.
Or nothing like either.

Who knows?

We can never predict how our children will turn up.

I'm so sorry you feel like that about your DS at the moment lemon sad

Could it just be a difficult teenage phase ? Nearly all teenagers can be difficult sometimes. Remember he's got half your genes too, so try to find the lovable bits ? HTH x

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:22:52

Thanks Highbrows No DC here.

A pros/cons list is an idea but what is stultifying me is there's no immediate reaction. Last time there was (to terminate), this time nothing. It was so 'easy' last time.

Lueji Wed 09-Jan-13 12:23:44

On wether you would actually like a child of your own.
On how your life would change.

Maybe your career would be delayed, you'd have less money for you, you'd be stuck at home more.

On the other hand, children can be fantastic and bring so much love and joy to our lives.

Nordicmom Wed 09-Jan-13 12:23:49

Definitely consider how you would feel if you couldn't ever conceive again and you had given this one up ! I had my DS with no problems but it never worked out again I misscarried all the other pregnancies ( but now finally do have a DD through gestational surrogacy ) . The fact is that this could be your only chance . What a difficult decision . I hope you'll be able to make up your mind soon and make peace with what ever it is smile ! Good luck !

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:25:05

Sorry you're not on top form lemonstartree. I agree that 15 year olds are hard work - I certainly was and my brother was awful but we're nice now, really.

HighBrows Wed 09-Jan-13 12:25:42

Ok you have no children and you're right this could be your last chance to have some. You still have time to decide so don't rush the decision. But weigh it all up.

SoHHKB Wed 09-Jan-13 12:25:57

If I were you and I'm not, so feel free to ignore I would think very carefully about your support network and how reliable they are. I'm the last person to suggest that you should be with a partner but there will be times throughout pregnancy and with a young baby that you need someone, if not several people, to lean on emotionally or for practical help... They need not be family but close, local friends are invaluable (speaking from experience!) And how supportive are your work likely to be in terms of time off for appointments/maternity leave/flexible working etc?
I would worry far less about whether you will ever find a partner again - the right man will accept you and baby as a package...
Listen to your gut instinct and imagine each scenario carefully - do you feel relieved or disappointed? Excited or terrified? Of course there will be a certain amount of each but it is entirely your decision and only you have to live with it - good luck smile

Lueji Wed 09-Jan-13 12:26:09

My feeling is that you actually want this baby.

It's got lots of cons, perhaps.
But if you don't feel an immediate rejection weighing those cons, maybe you do want it.

What would you do in an ideal world?

TisILeclerc Wed 09-Jan-13 12:26:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:27:03

Lots to think about Lueji and Nordicmom thank you for your thoughts.

I don't think I think and type the thoughts at the same time right now. I am still in shock I think. I'll probably be back later, thanks again.

NotSpartacus Wed 09-Jan-13 12:32:56

Of course it is hard having a baby alone. When I had children (not alone) my life changed in two ways. I always think of the children before making any decision; and for the first time in my life I need other people for things (help when the kids are ill and I am juggling ft work etc, babysitting, advice, a chat when I am tired). So a support network is important but you can put that in place if you decide to keep the baby.

The crucial question is deep in your gut do you want the baby? If yes, have it. If the answer is no or if you are ambivalent, I would think hard about terminating. I think children deserve parents who are more than ambivalent about them, and the truth is that children do make life more difficult so it helps to be fully signed up!

HighBrows Wed 09-Jan-13 12:34:25

Lemons, 15 year olds are difficult, very difficult. My son is almost 17 and he's almost a pleasure to be around now. The teens board is a brilliant resource and most of the parents there are unshockable.

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 12:35:06

If you want to become a single mother, I suggest you go about it by sourcing a sperm donor through approved channels.

Having a dc by a man who's beaten you, abused you financially, and treated you like a skivvy, is a recipe for disaster.

If this visa overstayer who has no right to be in the UK gets wind of it, he may use your pg to try to remain here and if, as it very much sounds, he's from a significantly different culture, he may try to take his child back to his home country.

I sometimes despair at the ineptitude of the Met's finest. If they'd apprehended him as they bloody well should have done after you'd reported him, he'd have been deported last summer and you wouldn't be playing with fire sticks now.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 09-Jan-13 12:35:15

13 years ago I was in exactly the same situation - minus the abusive ex, my DS's dad is very nice. Had my baby solo, no family around, have been the 100% parent and have never regretted it for a minute. It's been hard work juggling all the responsibilities, not to say very expensive, but it's also been very rewarding.

Not saying you should do the same thing but just giving you reassurance that it's not necessarily a disaster. Good luck whatever you decide todo.

IME the kind of relationships you want to have will come along if you just get on with living your life the way you want to live it. So I'd completely dismiss all thoughts about whether of not you'll have a future relationship entirely at this point. Apart from anything else, you've just come out of an abusive relationship and probably don't want to be jumping into another one.

The pregnancy is another issue entirely, and one only you can make a decision about. If you do want to have a baby, then you will make it work (regardless of the pros and cons). But you need to determine whether you do want to have a baby. It might help to set aside any thoughts of 'last chances' as you to think about whether motherhood (and all that goes with it) is what you want. Lueji's questions are definitely a good place to start.

Lueji Wed 09-Jan-13 12:37:00

Izzy has a point.

Is there any way he can find out that you are pregnant and that the baby is his?

Could be good timing in a way that you dumped him just in time before you found out you were pregnant and then probably would have told him ?

HighBrows Wed 09-Jan-13 12:42:14

I kinda agree with Izzy.

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 12:43:09

This type of twunt always finds out, Lueji, and if he hasn't found out by the time of the birth, that'll be 18 years the OP will spend looking over her shoulder.

And what about the child? Doesn't s/he have a right to know their father? It's not as if he's abandoned the OP because she's pg, is it?

Jeez, if he knew about this he'd be making every kind of hollow promise on his knees proposing marriage and thanking god for handing him a UK passport on a plate.

tzella Wed 09-Jan-13 12:43:44

Thanks for bothering to do the research on my posts, izzy grin Saves me typing.

Some things I didn't think of there sad

I've just mailed my very best friend and she's going to come and see me. Should have thought of that first but I'm used to being fucking brave and stupidly independent angry

freeandhappy Wed 09-Jan-13 12:43:55

My friend is getting impregnated next month hopefully via sperm donor age 42 (her not the donor!) she is doing it tho way as the father of the child she had at 38 in your circumstances has been a fucking nightmare. Have a termination, you could still get the pill one this early but use this to get you thinking about if you really do want to have a child. Then get yourself set up financially to do it alone. I would not proceed with this pregnancy. Cut all ties with this man. Do not let this man be the man you choose for any potential child of yours. Good luck.

sillymillyb Wed 09-Jan-13 12:48:10

I don't have any relationship advice, but I do have a 10mo ds and have been alone through my pregnancy and (obviously) now too!

It is the hardest, most amazing thing I have ever done. It's def not easy, but I don't think having a child ever is. In fact, to a certain degree I think I may have had it easier than some couples as I never had to consider any one elses needs except mine or my sons.

I think what I'm trying to say badly is that whilst it is undeniably bloody hard work to go through pregnancy and raising a child alone, it is also incredibly wonderful and I wouldn't take away any of the bad days if it meant not having my son.

If you decide to go for it, you will manage and be brilliant at it - because you have no choice but to be! Good luck, I hope you are ok and well done on getting rid of the cocklodger in the first place!

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 12:58:25

I live in central London and I take full advantage of the anonymity the capital has to offer but, nevertheless, this city is a collection of villages and it wll be entirely possible for him to get word of this development if you don't seek a termination.

Even if you deny his paternity tzella, he can enforce a DNA test and then, you will be fucked over by him again and again.

Given all of the circumstances, I don't believe it would be fair to the potential child to proceed any further with this particular pg.

morethanpotatoprints Wed 09-Jan-13 13:17:23


I was adopted from birth and nothing like my birth parents, my personality seems to come from nurture. I do believe that some things can be transferable though, but its not always a nature thing.

Dahlen Wed 09-Jan-13 13:30:07

lemonstartree - have you tried reading this book? If not, you may find it useful.

FWIW, I believe nature and nurture are inseparable. Nature lies down the limits of the spectrum and nurture determines where on that spectrum things fall. So good parenting can maximise IQ biut only to the upper limit of what is available genetically, etc.

I do think, and forgive me if this sounds harsh, that for many parents who have left abusive or otherwise badly behaved partners, there is a tendency to repeat the same mistakes made with the XP in the relationship with the child - unless a great deal of soul-searching and change has been effected. If you have poor boundaries with adults, it's often even harder to maintain them against a child you love. Also, I've seen many abused women refuse to use any discipline with their children because they are rebelling against the abuse they experienced with their X and see the two as the same thing.

I'm not saying that applies to you, as many abused women are excellent parents and do not make these mistakes, but I think the above scenario explains far more cases where children are like the 'bad' parent than genetics does.

SpringIsComing Wed 09-Jan-13 13:40:17

"he can enforce a DNA test"
izzyin, how? The courts are not allowed to order DNA tests where there is an application for the sole purpose of establishing paternity plus in the UK they uphold a mother's right to keep pregnancy a secret from a father. Source: Unless you have other information about how any man can force a women and baby to undergo DNA testing.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 09-Jan-13 13:50:08

I would be very worried that having got rid of this partner, he will be back like a nasty rash if you tell him you are pregnant. Undesirable or not, arguably he has a right to know, and he could be an ongoing presence in your life for years.

That said, if you are not immediately thinking of termination, and not averse to the idea of having a child, and can actually say you are ready for this, allowing fear of His Creepiness to take away the chance of this unlooked for opportunity at 38, gives him a power over you which is unmerited.

Take a look at the Lone Parent topic, that could be you in 8 months' time.
Where do you live, how will you get by, do you have support, stating the obvious but you will have responsibility for a dependent for years to come.
Are you in good health yourself?
If the baby has some kind of special needs, will you cope?
Disturbed nights, foregoing certain treats and pleasures you take for granted as a free agent, all of this solo for a while at least?

Where there's a will, there's a way. I am not trying to put you off. Hope you can talk things through with your friend.

I wouldn't really consider that an abusive Ex does have the right to know Donkey ? Do many/ any people think he does ? (if OP decides to continue with pregnancy ?)

referring to first part of Donkey's post - "arguably he has a right to know"

lemonstartree Wed 09-Jan-13 14:37:20

thank you - I didn't mean to derail the thread. All I wanted to suggest was that THIS man may pass on genetic characteristics to his child (and he may not) which may cause serious problems in the future.

I will look at some of the stuff you have mentioned. Might help me get my head around the guilt.

* Tzella* my eldest has aspergers and add. it makes parenting a teenager very very hard. Look past a cute baby and toddler and imagine parenting a replica of HIM. And then see what thoughts /emotions that brings up

very hard for you x

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 09-Jan-13 14:40:39

That is why I put "arguably" Juggling. Personally I'd move, and not breathe a word, without any compunction, <shrug>.

Fair enough donkey. I just don't think telling him about pregnancy at any stage would be a good idea - I'd do the same as you I think

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 15:57:31

Enforce was perhaps too strong a word, Spring, but it's not uncommon for the Family and Appellate Courts to give directions to establish paternity through DNA testing.

Unless exceptional circumstances apply, it is generally accepted within the family justice system that it is in the best interests of the child for their true identity to be made known to them at the earliest opportunity.

Providing any such application is not made in isolation, anyone with “sufficient personal interest” can apply for a declaration of parentage [FLA 1986 s55A] as part of other/existing proceedings. Under FLRA 1969 S20, the Court may then issue a direction that DNA tests to determine parentage are carried out.

I refer you to a judgement much quoted by Families Need Fathers, namely, that of Mr Justice Bodey: Family Division: Re T (Paternity: Ordering Blood Tests) 2001: “I am entirely satisfied that in evaluating and balancing the various rights of the adult parties and of T under Article 8, the weightiest emerges clearly as being that of T, namely that he should have the possibility of knowing, perhaps with certainty, his true roots and identity.”

From tzella's earlier posts, and purely on the basis of him having overstayed his allotted time in the UK, I've formed the impression that she and her ex do not share the same the same racial and cultural origin.

Given your own recent experience of the justice system, I invite you to imagine what a couple of immigration and human rights briefs could do with this scenario. Suffice it to say the cost to the taxpayer could be considerable.

For those who advise tzella to move home in order to ensure that he does not discover the pg, I would remind them that sooner or later any child of this union will wish to know the circumstances of their birth and may form a pressing desire to go in search of the father who, as Donkey has said, arguably has the right to know.

It's a well-known truism that there's no such thing as a free lunch and, sooner or later, the bill requires settlement.

AppearingDignified Wed 09-Jan-13 17:29:06

This is the type of scenario your very recent ex will have been praying for. In all the excitement of discovering your pregnancy you must consider that your life will be forever entwined. Maybe not right now but you must be prepared for it.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 17:39:07

If OP decides to have the baby, he would probably only get supervised access at a contact centre, also if she stated her fears over his abuse, that might help the case.

But OP if you have this baby, and you eventually, inform him of it, the be ready to tell him, its about the baby only, or if ya want lie and say its not his.

lalalonglegs Wed 09-Jan-13 18:14:02

Couldn't the OP save herself a lot of problems by tipping off Border Control and having her ex deported?

Good luck with your decision, tzella.

sparklyjumper Wed 09-Jan-13 18:17:46

Hi Tzella.

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through a hard time. I found relationships recently and received a lot of support here but frankly I'm shocked and disturbed by some of the responses here.

The poster who claims her son has turned out like his father? Sorry but awful, just awful. And noone here should be advising you whether to have a termination (or not to) or who to have a baby with.

Of course the ideal situation to have a child should be in a loving relationship, but ultimately the decision is whether you want to continue with this pregnancy and go on to have a child.

I can tell you about my experience that is my ds father was violent to me and abusive, controlling. I left him and have made a real go at parenthood. I won't pretend it's perfect or easy all of the time. But for me it was the best thing I ever did, I'm a good mum and ds has turned out to be a lovely, well behaved, kind, clever and pleasant child. And I find parenting very rewarding.

I can also tell you that my older sister was in a similiar situation (violent ex partner), her son is now an adult and is absolutely nothing like his father and a fantastic young man. So I definitely believe in nurture over nature.

I've also had a termination, it's not an easy decision or a pleasant experience but it's not as horrific as some people think and if that's what you choose you should not feel guilty as it's your choice.

Both my sister and I have both made a success of parenting without any involvement from the father. And we've both gone on to have further relationships my sister is now happily married, but of course being a single parent is very restricting.

There a things to think about such as your financial situation and support network. If you want to pm me I can tell you about my experiences because there's a lot to consider and things that you probably haven't and won't even consider.

Take care though and take it easy, make sure you get yourself to the GP.

colditz Wed 09-Jan-13 18:25:23

He'd get supervised access at a contact centre until he showed them he's not actually hitting the baby, and then he'd get unsupervised access in a place of his choice.

Being abusive to the child's mother is no guarantee whatsoever that the father won't get 50/50 parenting rights.

If he has outstayed his visa, he will fall upon this pregnancy slobbering with glee. He will be demanding access from day one, even if he gets some other poor sucker to do the actual care.

Op, I would not do this, not at all. Being a single parent is very hard, and if you've got dick head genetics in there, it's even hard. If I were you, I would terminate this pregnancy then go to a sperm bank if I decided I DID want a baby.

sparklyjumper Wed 09-Jan-13 18:31:02

I really don't think it's helpful for people to be speculating on what 'could' happen with the 'father'. He doesn't even know she's pregnant, he doesn't have to know necessarily there are ways around that.

None of us here know the law or tzellas situation well enough to say what could or would happen.

If I'd listened to people I'd have terminated ds, enough people wanted me to, speculating on the worst. As it turns out I've been very well protected by the law.

You simply cannot say to someone 'I think that you should end this pregnancy' that decision has to come from within themselves.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 18:35:13

Well, its down to the OP to decide, her future, i certainly wouldnt bring up abortion, thats her choice alone, its just a shame, this twat will find out eventually, hope he dont tho.

sparklyjumper Wed 09-Jan-13 18:38:57

Op, I would not do this, not at all. Being a single parent is very hard, and if you've got dick head genetics in there, it's even hard. If I were you, I would terminate this pregnancy then go to a sperm bank if I decided I DID want a baby.

I'm sorry but what? Dickhead genetics? That is the most crazy thing I've ever heard in my life. You're basically writing off every child with a bad parent there. So all of those children who are adopted, all those with absent parents.

Usually people turn out to be dickheads because there was something lacking in their own childhood early on. So it's not too difficult to break the cycle. I also resent people saying that being a single parent is hard. It 'can' be hard, but it isn't for everyone.

girliefriend Wed 09-Jan-13 18:39:24

Oh my goodness am quite depressed to read the above posts sad if I were you I would definately have the baby 100% at 38 this may well be your last chance.

When I found myself pregnant and the father had already buggered off a good friend said to me if I terminated I would regret it whereas if I kept the baby I would have no regrets - this is so true.

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 18:46:02

FWIW, I didn't 'research' your earlier threads of last year, tzella, and the penny only dropped when you mentioned he'd given you 2 black eyes.

Your thread last summer stayed in my memory bank because it's one that caused me to bang my head on the table despair that many m/netters appear to labour under the misapprehension that one call to the police will ensure a violent twunt who's used his fists on a woman will be speedily arrested, banged up in a cell, and not let out until it is deemed that the his victim will be safe from further harm.

As your experience demonstrated, policing in dv cases can fall far short of the lavish promises made on numerous regional police authority websites, and sheer and crass ineptitude lack of joined up thinking on the part of the Metropolitan Police allowed yet another visa overstayer/failed asylum seeker, who had come their attention due to an allegation that he had committed a criminal offence involving the use of violence, to remain at large and, as I understand it, some 6 or more months after the incident he is yet to be brought to account despite having returned to your home and to your bed.

I didn't make the connection earlier because it didn't occur to me that you'd be such a glutton for punishment renege on your assertion that, having learned a lesson the hard way, you intended to have no further dealings with the man who had so violently assaulted you.

Should you decide to proceed with this pg, you may resolve to move home/do what it takes to ensure he remains unaware of your condition but my fear is that, once you experience the selective amnesia which can accompany pg, your thoughts will turn to how cosy it would be if he was around to share your experience of giving birth.

You've said that you are used to being fucking brave and stupidly independent. Tempted as I am to rearrange your words, I will simply say that any child of a violent, abusive, and controlling man, stands little chance of experiencing a childhood free of fear.

Your alleged bravery was insufficient to protect you from physical and other abuse at the hands of this man. What guarantee can you give that it will be sufficient to protect a child of your union with him?

sparklyjumper Wed 09-Jan-13 18:49:16

I think you need to look at things such as;

How would you feel about having this baby and not telling him or involving him in any way.

Is there any possibility of you moving so he won't find out/does he stalk your house?

Do you own/rent?

Would your job allow you maternity leave/to come back after the baby was born?

If so looking at what benefits you could also claim could you afford it?

How do you feel about putting young children into childcare so that you can work?

How would you feel if you did have a termination and the possibility that you may not have any children at all?

How will you cope with having a child who has no father around/answering the awkward questions?

Do you have a reliable support network because you will need some kind of support?

colditz Wed 09-Jan-13 18:50:06

It is for a lot of people, and as a single parent to two boys, whose dad is a bit of a dick, and one of whom has special needs, let me tell you it is no walk in the freaking park.

Life is very very hard sometimes. I have some good friends and sometimes my family help in a small way, but the only person who has an obligation to a single parents child is that single parent, even when you have flu, even if you have shingles, Even when you have a broken shoulder, even if you have cancer. Always, on you own, and quite possibly with no respite at all.

At its best, it can be easy and fun and delightful, but it's worst is much worse that you could imagine.

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 19:00:15

I'm very pleased to read that you've been 'very well protected by the law' sparkly, but from numerous posts on this board it would appear that others have not been so lucky.

May I assume that your dc's father is a UK citizen, and that you have not experienced the determination that can manifest in a father who has overstayed his visa and wishes to remain in this country and who may not share the mother of his child's religious or cultural beliefs?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 09-Jan-13 19:06:52

If for a minute you ignore the major conplication of her ex, if OP had said she'd longed for a baby, had ttc for years, people would still say, there's lots to consider before embarking on single parenthood.

At 38, a surprise pregnancy and the nature of her very recently ended relationship, there may not be a lot of responses urging OP to just jump in and do it regardless.

sparklyjumper Wed 09-Jan-13 19:12:41

Colditz and Izzy, reading your further posts I can I don't know, see your points more?

Perhaps I am seeing things through my own rose coloured specs. Yes my ex was perhaps not as determined/difficult to 'get rid of', perhaps because he did actually fear the law was why I was better protected? But I am and was also fiercly protective of my ds once he was born and made the decision not to let the man back into our lives in any way.

Something about advising someone to have a termination doesn't sit right with me, I'm completely pro choice but I would not like to influence someone.

Although I have a feeling which way the op will go as there is such a lot to think about and these are not good times to be going into single parenthood.

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 19:15:48

I think it is disgraceful how people think a pregnancy shoud be hidden from the father yet I suspect they also think fathers should pay for their kids. What about the child? IME a child knowing who their father is is very very important, even if their is no relationship.

OP, my opinion on what you should do is irrelevant but be very sure about your decision and think about every possibly consequence before you make a final decision.

garlicbollocks Wed 09-Jan-13 19:29:42

Don't be daft, JustFabulous, nobody could hide the paternity of a child and simultaneously seek maintenance, could they? I hear the sound of an axe grinding!

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 19:34:15

Nope, no axe grinding from me and I am not daft.

I was clearly talking about 2 different situations.

sparklyjumper Wed 09-Jan-13 19:37:23

JustFabulous, the thing is though, if there is a risk to the mother and babys safety. It IS best not to tell.

izzyizin Wed 09-Jan-13 19:48:43

There are numerous threads on this board about abusive and controlling men who believe they are above the law, sparkly, and fact is that the justice system rarely acts to rapidly disabuse them of this notion.

It's fortunate that, having decided you weren't going to let your ex back into your lives in any way, your ex has not seen fit to challenge your decision because, if he were to, it is virtually inevitable that, as colditz has said, he will granted access to/contact with his ds.

As for your not wishing to 'influence someone', this board is an internet forum where advice is sought and all OPs are free to accept or reject, or otherwise ignore, any responses to their threads.

In such a decision as this matter requires, ultimately tzella will choose to do what she wishes and this may, nor may not, be in accordance with any of the various views expressed here.

TheFollyfootandtheivy Wed 09-Jan-13 19:55:05

Having a dc by a man who's beaten you, abused you financially, and treated you like a skivvy, is a recipe for disaster.

On the other hand, maybe the child might grow up to be a fantastic human being.... I wouldnt call my DD a recipe for disaster (and nor would anyone else who knows her), yet her father turned out to be all of those things.

JustFabulous Wed 09-Jan-13 19:57:48

TheFolly - the issue is the safety of the child once the abusive father discovers their existence, it isn't all about genetics.

Anyway, I feel this isn't the thread for me so I wish the OP lots of luck for the future.

Bubblegum78 Wed 09-Jan-13 19:59:04

You should only make your decision based on one thing:


Do not do it beccause it's your last chance or because of relationship worries.

You CAN lose weight safely whilst pregnant, I did it.

As a single parent you will have tough times and it will impact on your finances, but in saying that, most single mum's are better off financially as they are entitled to help with rent/council tax/child care so you won't be that badly off.

I was a single parent with my 1st DD. I had all of the help I mentioned financially, I utilised child care so I could stay at work and if you need a babysitter there is a UK babysitting/childcare website, google it.

Your life will change but it depends on your attitude, I took the attitude that my child would fit in with my life, not the other way around and that's what I did.

Having a baby is not the end of life as you know it and you will have someone who loves and adores you for the rest of your life.

Will it be easy? No. But it's not the end of the world either.

If you are more inclined not to want a baby, then don't do it.

I think you should take 2 weeks to make your decision as you will change your mind endlessly.

Good luck. x

TheFollyfootandtheivy Wed 09-Jan-13 20:03:11

I know that justfabulous, probably more than you realise.

bumhead Wed 09-Jan-13 20:05:27

Tzella are you ok?
Your head must be spinning with these responses.
Just take your time and give yourself a bit of space to decide what you want to do. x

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Wed 09-Jan-13 20:21:07

Unless you are 100% I don't think it's right to terminate. I think you'll regret it if you do. Your previous one you knew, this one you don't.
You can do it on your own, yes it will be hard but you can.
I have to say I'm in the don't tell him camp. You don't need to have a link to him forever. Normally if be totally against not telling him but in this case I think it's for the best.
If you can, move close to family, you'll need their help and support.

Lastly, congratulations xx

MarianneM Wed 09-Jan-13 23:03:43

I think it's pretty grim to suggest to terminate a pregnancy and then immediately go to the sperm bank to try get pregnant again.


Have some respect people. It's not some kind of conveyor belt.

I would not have a child with a man like that. Sorry. His DNA does not need spreading.

MrsTomHardy Wed 09-Jan-13 23:09:26

I agree with Cantbelieve....

Flisspaps Wed 09-Jan-13 23:19:25

I'm with Marianne.

colditz Wed 09-Jan-13 23:33:53

Neither is the op an incubator for any DNA that happens to take root there! Have some respect for her as a woman! Never mind "aw baby baby bay aw so cute I want one aw baby", how about 'make sure that the man who blacked you eyes won't be legally tied to you for the next eighteen years, using your joint offspring as an excuse to continue to abuse you"

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 23:46:43

Its the OP's decision to keep the baby or terminate, its about whats right for her.

jchocchip Thu 10-Jan-13 00:06:46

There is never a right time to have a baby, if you wait for the right time you may miss the opportunity. If you want to, keep the baby - baby will bring lots of joy and you will be able to do it on your own - don't tell the abusive oh and use the abuse as reason not to tell authorities name of father.

seaofyou Thu 10-Jan-13 00:56:00

if you can't work in London OP re too expensive for child care etc on own no family...would you consider moving somewhere cheaper to live and getting lower salary and hopefully ex doesnt find you (name change)

I am worried he will use this dc as a weapon to carry on abusing you for the next 18 years!

One rule if he ever did come round do not leave ex alone with you dc for 1 second...I did as ex asked for a cuppa....whilst I was boiling the kettle he took a DNA test....however my ex was hoping for opposite result to yours as wanted to return to UK so would not have to pay CSA.

Police laughed at Human Tissue Act (common assult to take DNA without PR permission.! So fathers can take DNAs, do your signiture and get away with it if clever enough!

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Thu 10-Jan-13 01:34:13

I would never, ever, normally suggest a termination - but in this case, I would say you either need to have a termination or basically go into hiding. You can't guarantee he wont find out and if he does, any chance you have of living your life free of him are gone sad It's not just until you have the baby either, you'd have to be able to stop him finding out for 19 years almost... I would do it to protect myself and the potential child from him.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Thu 10-Jan-13 01:36:18

Also, I'm sure the court would order a DNA test if he tries to use the child as a reason to stay in the UK.

Rikalaily Thu 10-Jan-13 08:32:47

I'm not sure what I would do in your situation but one thing I'm 100% sure of is that I would NEVER ever tell that man that he's the father if he found out, in fact I would lie to absolutely everyone and tell them I wasn't as far along and make out like I had a one night stand who fathered the baby, a rebound thing after it ended with him. I'd move away to another area and make sure my child was safe from him.

He will use you and your baby to stay in the country and he would be entitled to access and there is no way I could allow that with a violent man. Especially as he could flee to another country, god I can't imagine the horror of having my child taken away like that.

Good luck OP, whatever you decide. If you decide to keep the baby you have to keep both of you safe, when the hormones etc kick in you'll be tempted to tell him and may want him back, please don't as you would definately regret it down the line and your child shouldn't suffer for it.

TrazzleMISTLEtoes Thu 10-Jan-13 08:41:35

He would need to be having regular contact with the child to be able to stay in the UK on that basis, OP. at the moment, the new immigration laws that seek to limit human rights applications are being challenged so its all a bit up in the air but yes, it is POSSIBLE that he could get to stay in the country because of your child.

It is a bit short sighted to think that the OP will "only" endure 18/19 years of future abuse from this man if she goes through with the pregnancy.

If he is a real abusive manipulative shit, he will also most likely behave like that to the child, too (Well maybe not the violence). OP will most likely have to facilitate both visitations and holidays together, unless she goes through some lengthy and costly legal process to ensure he is not in her life. And the child? Will suffer years of anxiety and problems due to his/her fathers behavior. And he is not going to magically disappear, or stop contact when Child is 18/19/25/50 etc. He will be in your lives, through the child.

I am basing the above on my sisters experience with her ex, and my nieces life with such a father. There is no end to the turmoil he causes his daughter through text, emails, phone calls. sad

TwoFacedCows Thu 10-Jan-13 09:48:01

OP from your last thread, and indeed this one too, you sound like a very strong and brave woman. You are truly inspirational. You have handled a very difficult and trumatic experiance with grace and dignity.

I have no doubt that you would make a fantastic mother. I equally have no doubt that you are strong enough to handle what ever decision you come to.

imogengladhart Thu 10-Jan-13 09:57:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MarianneM Thu 10-Jan-13 11:22:32

Neither is the op an incubator for any DNA that happens to take root there! Have some respect for her as a woman! Never mind "aw baby baby bay aw so cute I want one aw baby", how about 'make sure that the man who blacked you eyes won't be legally tied to you for the next eighteen years, using your joint offspring as an excuse to continue to abuse you

I know the response I will get, but this: "for any DNA that happens to take root there" - it doesn't just happen. Here is a chance for a woman to respect herself and not have (unprotected) sex with an abusive man.

izzyizin Thu 10-Jan-13 11:40:25

That bus would appear to have gone, Marianne.

Tzella had her chance to be rid of this abusive UK oxygen thief last summer but, despite his violence towards her, she resumed her relationship with him and contnued to pander to his needs until little more than a week ago.
It's a fact that some are driven by inner conflict, caused perhaps by dysfunctional childhoods or other trauma, to engage in sex with abusive men. I make no judgement except to say that such a relationship, and the environment it creates, is not one in which a child can flourish.

Blu Thu 10-Jan-13 11:52:39

Being a parent, and especially being a single parent on a less than wealthy income, is incredibly hard work, financially ruinous, socially restricting, a lifelong committment.

People do it because they really wnat a child so much that none of the abve is a deterrent, or they do it because having found themselves pg they then fall in love with their baby and it makes it all worthwhile. Hopefully.

You can really want a baby, then find that the reality is doing your head in, and regret parenthood, even though you love the child.
You can fear pg and feel you don't want a baby and then do a cpmplete U turn when you fal in love with the baby.
You can resent being pg and then resent being a parent - this is a terrible outcome for the child.

How far are you prepared to take a gamble with your own happiness? Did you feel an instinctive boost of excitement, plesasure or fulfillment when you saw the test result?

tzella Thu 10-Jan-13 12:07:04

Decision made and I’m making an appointment with the GP for a termination. Thanks to almost all of you. I’m not terribly impressed with replies victim blaming and using textbook abusive tactics; implying I am ‘fucking stupid’ and using grandiose language in clichés as if they are fundamental truths. Not cool at all.

Blu Thu 10-Jan-13 12:15:11

Good luck with your decision. OP, and with moving on.

fwiw I think it good that you will have some time to focus on YOU - and what you want to make happen in your life.

You have been experiencing an abusive relationship, and it might be good to take time to look at that, and give yourself time to recover and gather your strength and confidence. Relationships aren't a matter of fate or some sort of fate-determined cycles - yes there's a ot of luck in whether you meet the right person, but whether you fall for an abuser, or begin and maintain a relationship on YOUR terms are down to you and your two strong arms.

Look after yourself!

trustissues75 Thu 10-Jan-13 12:17:22


This was going to be a very difficult situation no matter which way you decided. Fwiw I think you made the right choice. You deserve a life without fear and after reading this thread it looks like the ex is the kind of controllingnon-human who would milk a dc for all it was worth. I am 2 years post abusive relationship with a non-national and im still looking over my shoulder - there have been times when the fear and harassment from the US lawyers has nearly broken me (not to mention its broken my parents bank account).

Hugs to you.

AlienananaReflux Thu 10-Jan-13 12:22:20

Best of luck love, it won't be easy.

Trills Thu 10-Jan-13 12:23:28

Hope it all goes smoothly for you. I think it's good that this man is not going to be a part of your life any more.

It's too late now but I wanted to add to his
The crucial question is deep in your gut do you want the baby?

It's not just "do you want a baby?" but "do you want a baby, then a toddler, then a small child, then a larger child, then a teenager, then an adult who is your child?".

akaemmafrost Thu 10-Jan-13 12:28:07

Knowing what I know in my life now, after a failed marriage and being a lone parent to two dc, if I were you in your position I would have this child. Good luck to you.

imogengladhart Thu 10-Jan-13 12:30:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Thu 10-Jan-13 12:51:36

I think you've been really brave Tzella, its a shit situation, its never easy having an abortion, but sometimes its a must, it might have been different if this man was gone for good but, i wouldnt want to bring a child into the world with a man like that. Good luck love x

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 10-Jan-13 13:15:35

Good luck Tzella thanks for coming back to update.

Lueji Thu 10-Jan-13 14:00:06

Hugs and I hope all goes well.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Thu 10-Jan-13 14:09:33

Tzella - I read your post with relief. In all my years on MN, this is the first time I have felt that way when someone has said they have booked the appointment. You need to be completely free of this 'man' to have any kind of life in the future.

bumhead Thu 10-Jan-13 14:12:53

Tzella whatever decision you make (and you may still change your mind) will be the right one for you.
No-one else has the right to judge you.
If you want to have this baby then do. You will find a way round your toxic ex even if it starts with having the fucker deported. In fact I'd probably do this anyway, it will save you or some other poor woman in the UK being beaten black and blue!
Take your time and remember this is your body and your baby
Have some very unMN hugs and kisses!

TwoFacedCows Thu 10-Jan-13 15:55:01


I hope it all goes well for you. How dare people be so nasty to you! it is your decision, only you can know what is best for you.

It wont be easy, but you will be fine.


garlicbollocks Thu 10-Jan-13 16:04:50

Good luck, Tzella smile Hope this year turns out more pleasant and less complicated!

colditz Thu 10-Jan-13 16:27:54

Good luck, tzella. I hope it all goes smoothly and that you are making a decision that is right for you.

jchocchip Thu 10-Jan-13 23:39:18

good luck tzella

Good luck tzella - I hope that overall the thread has been helpful and am sorry that some posts have been less than helpful to you.

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