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Silver heart pendant (name change)

(187 Posts)
Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 21:48:07

You may remember my recent thread about my DH and his female friend and the silver pendant, which went back to the shop. Sadly, and I'm not sure how, things have gone rapidly and horribly downhill and though we tried a few counselling sessions, DH has announced that, according to him, there is not enough left between us to save the marriage. We are living in some sort of horrible limbo, he says he is not seeing anyone else just that, after 4 marriages, he thinks he should be alone. We have a 5 year old daughter, and I have 3 older children from my first marriage, who love him.

Though he won't admit it, I think he is having a delayed stress reaction from 3 awful years of running our own business, plus a recent operation and bereavement. The issues re Caroline seem to have diminished though I suspect she may be in the background. Mostly, I think he just wants to stop the world and get off for a while. He says I tried to control him in the summer when I was worried about Caroline but agrees I don't do that now.

He says he is going nowhere at the moment, he hasn't been doing much freelance work recently so we are under each others feet all the time. I suspect he was hoping to go to his brother's locally but his brother has made it clear he doesn't want him there.

I am hoping if I can just keep everything calm, get him back to work on monday the reality of giving up his entire life will come into focus. I think he is severely depressed but he won't have that, as he is a mental health professional. He has promised me he will go to his GP but has cancelled the appointment. The strain is awful, I have lots of support but at home he virtually ignores me and won't touch me at all. I am heartbroken and terrified.

I can't believe he is planning to leave his child as she is his only one and he adores her.

Any advice?

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 21:48:55

We have been together for 7 years and married for only 1.

SundaeGirl Fri 04-Jan-13 21:53:39

I remember your thread and wondered how you'd been.

I think it wouldn't be such a bad thing if he went and stayed somewhere else for a bit. Maybe it's only by putting a bit of physical distance between you that he'll see what he's risking.

Mu1berryBush Fri 04-Jan-13 21:54:29

Was caroline a woman he bought a necklace for ? I'd say it is pretty bullish of him to describe your not unreasonable desire to keep him focused on his marriage when his eyes have clearly wandered as 'controlling'. That is not fair of him. It's not controlling of you to expect your husband not to buy gifts for other women.

Don't allow this limbo to continue. It does sound AWFUL. Is he getting off on it? If he's so certain the marriage is over why does he stay? Is he totally insensitive to how painful that must be for YOU.

YOU have choices too. You can make him go if you want. Don't hang in there hoping he'll suddenly appreciate you. He'll respect you more if you demand that he stops behaving in such a cruel way and either walks away or appreciates you.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 04-Jan-13 21:56:57

I think you're being remarkably charitable allowing him to behave this way towards you and attributing it '3 awful years'. Pound to a penny 'Caroline' is very much live.... Never mind that he thinks he's going nowhere. Why do his needs trump yours not to live in horrible limbo? Tell him to leave and work out his angst elsewhere.

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 21:58:44

He has spoken to a solicitor who says I can only get him to leave via injunction as we co own the house. I think there's something odd about the way he is allowing me to suffer. I really don't think he is well, he has made some wild accusations against me.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 04-Jan-13 22:01:58

If he's unwell he needs to convalesce ... but well away from you where he can't make you suffer any longer. You can actually ask your GP to send a mental health assessment team if you're really worried.

tzella Fri 04-Jan-13 22:02:31

You've mentioned the '3 awful years' of running your own business a few times. Was it really that bad? For him? Or you? Or both of you? Or is it a convenient thing to hang all his bad behaviour stress on and not look at other, more personal, reasons why (he's causing it to) it's all falling apart?

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 22:07:00

Business was utterly terrible - care agency, terrible cash flow problems, running it from a distance. 365 days a year 7am - 11pm. He once had to be taken to hospital from the side of the M3, thinking he was having a heart attack, but it was a panic attack. Finally sold it this year, after company buying it knocked £40k off asking price on day before completion - the final insult. Left us with a lot of debt - also part of the problem.

tzella Fri 04-Jan-13 22:11:26

Oh, that does sound bad sad

Whether he's ill or a scumbag he's making you suffer. You sure it's not because he doesn't give a shit? He has been having an EA, after all. Sickness and in health and all that but perhaps after 4 failed marriages he should be on his own.

ZenNudist Fri 04-Jan-13 22:11:30

I saw your original thread, I'm sorry things are unwinding for you. Christmas is a very stressful time, perhaps your instinct to give it a but of breathing room is a good one.

I'm sorry but I think the OW thing could still blow up. At very least she might not want to leave her dh but your h may be holding a torch for her.

You need to get your dh to explain what he wants, and make him see that realistically he can't stay in your house and be separated. He needs to leave if he wants to separate. Otherwise it's just his old life with licence to shag other women. This isn't healthy for either of you.

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 22:30:36

My DS and I are watching a film on the TV, whilst DH has spent the last two hours sitting in the garage, smoking and playing on his phone. I feel so angry but don't want to provoke a row.

tzella Fri 04-Jan-13 22:32:53

Playing on his phone or texting the OW?

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 22:36:53

I think the former, plus obsessively checking Facebook. I think it's mostly a nervous response.

tzella Fri 04-Jan-13 22:39:16

You're so convinced he's unwell sad What's he going to do about it?

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 22:41:57

He says he will go back to GP - he has promised. Mental health professionals are notoriously stubborn in this area!

TheBOF Fri 04-Jan-13 22:47:35

Yes, and husbands who disappear to play with their phone, buy other women jewellery and tell you they want a divorce are notoriously having affairs. Are you quite sure you are being honest with yourself?

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 04-Jan-13 22:52:41

Hiding in a garage using a phone and checking facebook and you're not getting 'OW' from that behaviour? Seriously?

HappyNewHissy Fri 04-Jan-13 22:53:32

Let him go. Detach.

You don't want to settle for this shabby, broken man, he's screwed up his life and making you suffer.

No man's worth that. What are you teaching your DC about relationships?

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 22:56:50

I have asked him outright a number of times about another woman - he says no. It doesn't really matter now, if he doesn't love me, it doesn't really matter to me.

tzella Fri 04-Jan-13 22:58:48

Of course he says no! grin

He's already dumped you, you know.

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 23:01:57

Yes, I probably do know that, but despite his crappy behaviour I do love him, he has worked incredibly hard for us and we have been very happy for a long time. I don't want to give up so easily, though he seems to, it's all happened so fast, that's what's worrying me.

tzella Fri 04-Jan-13 23:08:44

Is this his fourth marriage or did I misunderstand your OP? Ill step into my judgey pants and say that he's just running to form and you'll just be another broken hearted and utterly confused EXW he's leaving in his wake.

I hesitate to say but I think I'd find it easier to let go of him knowing he's done this three times before. He must have some serious best behaviour early game and 0 staying power.

Totallydistraught Fri 04-Jan-13 23:12:51

Yes, am his 4th wife, that's partly why I didn't rush into marriage. He hasn't had a child before though, and I naively thought he was committed to the future long term this time.

tzella Fri 04-Jan-13 23:15:12

Book an solicitor appointment on Monday to arrange a separation smile Research one specialising in divorce and family law now.

garlicbaubles Fri 04-Jan-13 23:21:54

Ring your predecessors. They could help you spot any patterns.

I agree with this, I fear: "Husbands who disappear to play with their phone, buy other women jewellery and tell you they want a divorce are notoriously having affairs."

I understand what you mean about loving him and having invested together in your future as a family. He seems to have started withdrawing from that particular account some time ago. It's hard to face up to the fact that your partner's no longer on your team.

There's a strong parallel between investing more love in a weak relationship, and more money in a weak business. You've already made the money mistake.

Totallydistraught Sat 05-Jan-13 00:53:52

I suspect you are right but I am so devastated to have my life and that of my gorgeous DC's ripped apart. I look at him and I have no idea who he is anymore.

garlicbaubles Sat 05-Jan-13 01:01:08

It's horrid, isn't it sad Like a bereavement - the whole emotional landscape of your life has changed; you hardly recognise your own world any more. Please, please be very kind to yourself now. Nurture yourself, and rally as much real-life support as you can. Wishing you well.

Totallydistraught Sat 05-Jan-13 01:09:28

My parents and siblings have been fantastic and I have lots of friends locally who are great - offers of support all round. Am also worried sick about the financial aspects as I don't currently work since we sold the business last year. Still have an idea for self employment that will allow me to be there for my DC's which I am going to roll out when they go back to school. Just can't believe I find myself here when 4 weeks ago, it felt an impossibility.

badinage Sat 05-Jan-13 01:20:29

That's because something critical has changed recently. It's so painfully obvious that this involves another woman (and possibly her changed circumstances or a shift in their relationship) and it's heartbreaking to read your denial about that and the excuses you're making for why he wants out of your marriage.

The best and to my mind, soundest advice in these circumstances is that if he won't leave of his own accord and you can't move out, then you must withdraw all benefits of being a couple. No cooking or washing for him and while he's home, get yourself out and about while he cares for your children. Stop telling him your plans and stop trying to reason with him or begging him to reconsider. If he wants a separation, then that's what he gets.

I personally couldn't live like this though so I'd do anything I could to stop sharing a home with him while this is going on. He's an absolute shit of the highest order for saying he wants to leave but staying around like a bad smell.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 05-Jan-13 01:41:39

I think I said on your other thread that you sound like I did in April.

Making excuses for XH behaviour, dismissing the contact with OW as not part of the problem. Ignoring the Elephant in the room, which was OW. Blaming it all on a breakdown of some sort.

All because XH announced out of nowhere that he didnt love me any more.

You need to hear what you are being told here. Your XH is texting OW, he is not playing games. Ask to borrow his phone to play the game, I bet he won't hand it over!

You need to take legal advice on where you stand with the house and everything else. You cannot continue to live together indefinitely. Look into the tax credits and benefits. Declare yourself legally separate to him. And as said above, do not do anything for him. He needs to look after his own crap now!

You will be grieving for a long time for the loss of your H. I couldn't believe how much mine changed into a total stranger.

Totallydistraught Sat 05-Jan-13 01:59:04

Sad cow, aren't I? Always wanting to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

badinage Sat 05-Jan-13 02:28:27

I don't think it's just that, love.

I think it's denial borne out of shock, really. It's much easier to cope with thinking someone is ill, depressed and 'not of sound mind' than the more awful alternative that he's cruel because he's met someone else.

But I expect you know deep down that he's having an affair and that something has changed regarding that fairly recently, hence his declaration that the marriage is over.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 05-Jan-13 09:17:42

So sorry.

The fact that this is the 4th time he has chosen to run away from his marriage shows its HIM who is the problem.

He has issues that only he can resolve and he is choosing to do this by having an affair.

Take control by telling him to go and leave you space to consider your options.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 05-Jan-13 14:41:44

No, you are not sad for wanting to believe the best, you are human, you are a wife and mother who wants to save your marriage.

I infuriated people on here, by not believing what they were trying to tell me. i "knew" my XH and I knew that he would never ever cheat on me, that he was just supporting OW, that he would not do that to his best mate....

I tried to see the best in the whole situation. I went against all advice on here and did what I had to do. It ended in yet more tears, more heartbreak and more hassle that I could have saved myself, but even now, I know that I did what I had to do and that I have some peace of mind, that I tried everything I could to save the marriage. It was too late as he had checked out a long time ago, and that is what posters on here realised, that I didnt.

I try not to be harsh with people in the same situation as I totally understand how you feel, but you do need to start facing up to the reality of the situation and make some decisions for yourself, that will make you feel stronger, more able to face the future, whatever happens.

HullyEastergully Sat 05-Jan-13 16:46:43

four marriages?

four?

four?

and he's a mh prof

that = utterly hopeless narcissist who's vanished up his own arse a long time ago

Totallydistraught Sat 05-Jan-13 23:55:59

Thanks for all your messages. Sadly, I can't disagree with the views expressed, though I desperately want to. Going to hang in there a little bit longer, whilst being realistic about the future. Feel so desperately sad, looking at my 4 DC's, and knowing how hurt they will be.

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Sun 06-Jan-13 00:04:44

sad

I'm sorry you feel the need to 'hang in there' but you aren't the first and wont be the last. We do understand, so don't stop posting OK.

Totallydistraught Sun 06-Jan-13 00:07:37

Not for too long - am not a total doormat and if we do make it, there'll need to be lots of changes! But thanks.

AnyFucker Sun 06-Jan-13 00:09:38

You are "surprised" things have turned out this way ?

really ?

i expect his previous multiple wives are very much not

Totallydistraught Sun 06-Jan-13 00:15:45

He never had children before and I believed he had finally grown up, with the birth of our daughter. For 6.5 years, he has been a great husband, father and stepfather. Thats quite a while, though as you point out, I shouldn't be surprised at this turn of events.

What Hully said.

You're his fourth wife yet you still thought he'd be different this time? Crikey.

Get rid of the self-obsessed ringpiece.

AnyFucker Sun 06-Jan-13 00:17:11

You thought being a father would be the "making" of him ?

despite it being clear he is no more than a self-obsessed man-child himself ?

a triumph of hope over experience, it would seem

badinage Sun 06-Jan-13 00:18:50

What were you really after on this thread OP?

You said you wanted advice and everyone has said more or less the same thing.

Instead it sounds like you actually wanted posters to say 'stick it out. He might come round when his affair is over'

Good luck with that....

Totallydistraught Sun 06-Jan-13 00:18:59

Well it's been the making of him since 2007 but I've obviously been utterly ridiculous in trusting him.

Totallydistraught Sun 06-Jan-13 00:20:22

Don't know what I really thought, badinage, not thinking too clearly at the moment, what with my life and that of my DC's in shreds.

AnyFucker Sun 06-Jan-13 00:27:52

no, love, you have had at least 3 "awful" years

that's not a recent personality change

it's more likely this is a lightbulb moment for you

stop denying, and start embracing your rise to consciousness

this man child is a drain on you, and always has been

he is having an affair...and still you wish to turn a blind eye

what would it take to fully wake you up ?...you walk in on them in your bed ?

badinage Sun 06-Jan-13 00:27:59

Yes I understand that. but we are thinking clearly and can see that this plan of yours to wait it out until he comes to his senses is doomed to fail and that your own mental health is going to nosedive the longer it persists.

Totallydistraught Sun 06-Jan-13 06:36:54

We have not had 3 awful years together, I didn't say that - I said the business was a terrible strain for the last three years, we were a good team during that time. It's been since it has sold that things have gone downhill - about September onwards. It's been the speed of the unravelling that has shocked me.

SundaeGirl Sun 06-Jan-13 09:50:27

No idea why posters are turning on you, OP. Just because someone's been married before shouldn't automatically make them a lost cause.

Get some distance, get some legal advice (proper), and at all times think 'dignity'. Try not to be in the same room as him.

fiventhree Sun 06-Jan-13 10:09:24

I'm thinking serial philanderer.

fromparistoberlin Sun 06-Jan-13 10:17:30

OP I remeber your last thread

i think he needs tough love, let him go

I know you wa\nt to keep him and heal him with love, but the only way the marriage can be salavged is if HE decided to get his shit together

and I think it does sound very fishy :-(

let him go, and really you deserve better. you know that dont you?

he is treating you bad, and you must try and nurture YOU, not him

i am sorry what a shitty thing xxx

Totallydistraught Sun 06-Jan-13 10:24:03

Thank you! Am trying to retain dignity, have a good network of family and friends and trying to keep myself busy and focus on DC's for the time being. Will also get some legal advice.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 10:30:28

Hi there. I know it seems like some posters on here are a bit harsh, I felt exactly the same, but whatever happens, those people will still be here for you to support you.

I have gone from "happily married" to divorced in less than a year, something that I never ever thought would happen. I thought that XH was having a breakdown or a Mid Life Crisis.... but it was a typical cliche of older man 48 falling for younger woman 31. An obsession, not a relationship.

I fought against all advice on here as I wanted to save my marriage, but some things are unsaveable sad I totally understand how you feel, if you want to PM me, please do.

If you want to hold on, then do that, but you would be right to get some legal advice so that you know exactly where you stand. You need to be prepared for every eventually. You can either be a victim, or a victor, and if you are prepared mentally for things not to work out, then you will be a lot better off.

I thought that my XH would never be able to leave his 4yo DD. He was told in the past that he could not have children, so she was the best thing that ever happened to him. Yet he still left her.

I wish you luck and we are all here for support

HecatePropolos Sun 06-Jan-13 10:31:04

sorry you're going through this.

Why did his three other marriages fail? Is there a pattern? Another woman? Bailing when all in the garden wasn't rosy? Unable to deal with real life?

I don't think your marriage is salvageable. It doesn't read like he wants to save it. It reads like he wants to do what he's done 3 times before.

Is it that he's got some fantasy of married life and as soon as the reality doesn't match up to that, he's off?

how long was he single between marriages?

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 10:31:45

eventually = eventuality...

AnyFucker Sun 06-Jan-13 10:55:41

There is no dignity in being treated like a fool

puds11isNAUGHTYnotNAICE Sun 06-Jan-13 11:02:21

Hi op, i don't think i saw your previous thread, but from what i have read on this thread i would have to say i agree with AF and Hully.

4 previous marriages would be an instant no for me. It seems like he likes the idea of a relationship and marriage, but gets bored quickly then moves on to the next wife.

I think you would be doing yourself a massive favour if you ditched the wanker and found someone who loves and respects you.

badinage Sun 06-Jan-13 11:49:27

It's been since it has sold that things have gone downhill - about September onwards.

I don't suppose that was the catalyst for things going downhill at all.

When did you start having concerns about the woman he bought the pendant for? Around September time? Before that?

The affair is far more likely to have been the source of his unravelling.

garlicbollocks Sun 06-Jan-13 14:39:21

If I were running a family, an alternative relationship and a business that wasn't going too well, I suspect I'd put long-term decisions about the relationship on hold until my finances had stabilised one way or the other. The family and the business are mutually involved - the relationship is basically an escape - so I can't ditch the family until the business is resolved.

Once it's clear the business is going, I'd be able to evaluate my options. At this point, I might feel my commitment to the family had gone the way of the business. My 'escape' relationship is now my future. All I've got to do now is plan that future and leave my failures (business and family) behind.

If I'd already bailed on previous commitments, I'd feel pretty sure this is the way things go in my life. I'd look always to the new horizon - ever ready to buy a new ticket - and travel light.

garlicbollocks Sun 06-Jan-13 14:50:52

Totally, you've said you felt sure you were different because you had a child together. Did you ever have the feeling you'd captured something rare and flighty, as it were? Like the tame songbird of traditional fables?

In those fables, the bird eventually stops singing and dies ...

It's good to hear you're so well supported in your life smile It sounds as though his brother's got his measure; talking to him about your H's previous marriages - and, maybe, to the ex-wives - could possibly help you get your head around current events.

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 00:37:53

No, I didn't see that, garlic bollocks. I saw a man who'd had a crap past, who owned up to his part, who wanted something different. I didn't rush headlong into marriage and in the meantime worked his arse off to be a good partner, father and stepfather. I have adored him for 7 years and am facing up to a different future from the one I hoped for and expected. I'll live, I expect.

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 00:39:53

'Why did his three other marriages fail? Is there a pattern? Another woman? Bailing when all in the garden wasn't rosy? Unable to deal with real life?'

All these.....

AnyFucker Mon 07-Jan-13 00:44:45

Just out of interest, was there an overlap between the end of his last marriage and his relationship with you ?

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 00:45:56

Yes and I guess I deserve everything I have got now.

AnyFucker Mon 07-Jan-13 00:52:26

How long do you think you have before you go the same way as all the others ? sad

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 00:56:43

Not long I suspect, but I have to work out an ongoing relationship with him as we have a daughter to care for.

AnyFucker Mon 07-Jan-13 01:00:07

Yes, you do but I really hope that you don't still have hopes that it can be a romantic one, or certainly not a monogamous one.

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 01:03:05

I think those have been fully squashed now.

ChippingInLovesChristmasLights Mon 07-Jan-13 01:08:44

You were the previous OW and yet you still believed him when he said there wasn't anyone else? Really?? I'm sorry that you thought you had something different with him than all the others had or that you thought your DD would be enough to make him man up - but sadly, it's so seldom the case, what he will do with you, he will do to you.

AnyFucker Mon 07-Jan-13 01:09:01

I am very sorry x

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 01:10:14

Thank you AF

AnyFucker Mon 07-Jan-13 01:17:26

"I will live, I expect".

Well, you wouldn't fancy the alternative....

But yes, you will. There is no man (or woman..) alive worth this. Let him go to pursue his next ego-boost, you are done with it.

badinage Mon 07-Jan-13 01:44:39

Oh I see.

This is why you so desperately want to think he's ill and depressed, not unfaithful.

Because then you'd be forced to admit that it's never a faulty woman or relationship that makes a serial cheat unfaithful....it's him.

I suppose as objective bystanders, now that you've revealed his history, it seems crazy that him buying a pendant for another woman and then bailing out of your relationship could ever have been interpreted as something else, but it does sound as though it might have hit home now.

It was honest of you to answer the question too, so fair play to you.

Honey, I've known a few men like this - I've even got one in my extended family. Having children isn't the pull or the glue that it is for others. These people are far too selfish to be parents, in truth.

It's not you, it's not your child and it was never his ex wives either.

The common denominator in all these failed relationships and serial infidelity is one selfish man.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 07-Jan-13 08:46:44

He sounds like my FIL who married three times and had several affairs. Nothing, even his children could make him remain faithful sad

I would start rebuilding your own life as a single parent.

Skyebluesapphire Mon 07-Jan-13 10:48:26

I am sorry you are going through this and no you do not deserve it.

But you do need to keep yourself strong and put yourself first from now on. I have cried millions of tears over my XH who doesn't deserve them, but it is all part of the healing and moving on process.

At the moment I cannot look at or speak to my XH, we communicate solely by text and email, but hopefully that will change one day, when I no longer give a damn about him.

My XH said that he could never leave his child, couldn't imagine her sad little face if he wasn't here in the morning, yet after getting infatuated with OW, he did just that.

You know what your H is capable of as he has done it before and sadly, he will go on and do it again and again, but in the future it will not be your problem.

garlicbollocks Mon 07-Jan-13 14:51:56

I feel for you, too sad

Plainly I agree with everyone else: you're worth your own respect, and that of your child. The fact of others' willing support proves your worth as an individual, and a usually excellent ability to surround yourself with good people.

There are folk who hook into people who see the best in them, often because they can't quite believe in themselves. Sadly, their self-mistrust carries the seeds of their repeated downfall and, fulfilling their own expectations, they keep moving on to the next 'believer'.

You didn't do anything wrong - except, perhaps, to pin your faith on the myth of woman as man's salvation. (Beauty & The Beast; the little mermaid; frogs & princesses ... ) Next time, appreciate that you're worth a 'prince'. You don't need to create him.

mamaslatts Mon 07-Jan-13 15:16:43

How horrible for you. Agree with garlic, sounds like he's been getting his shit together, selling the business, having his op etc in preparation for leaving. I think he's probably been planning this a long while and that's why, for you, it seems so sudden. He may well be depressed, as well, he may not (and therefore, cancelling his GP appointment because HE knows exactly what the problem is.)

He may well have worked hard in the past for you all, he may love his dc/dsc very much but that doesn't really change the situation you are in. Would see a solicitor of your own as soon as. Would he really make you and the children move out if you found the situation intolerable? It sounds like his brother has seen it all before and isn't going to enable him any longer. If he refuses to move and the solicitor says he doesn't have to, what are you options? Does anyone know? Do you have any other accounts (other than his) of how he has behaved in previous divorces?

TippiShagpile Mon 07-Jan-13 16:22:23

Do you know how he left his previous wives?

Did he walk out? Did they walk out? (What I'm getting at is whether he made their lives so intolerable so they left which makes it easier for him)

Did he keep the marital home(s)?

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 17:41:56

He has usually walked out with a suitcase and little else. He hasn't kept any of the marital homes - twice, he had kept his own flat, so all was quite straightforward. He had usually has got out as quickly as possible with minimum fuss. Relatively easy in the past as no children. His brother has told me about his divorces and its the same as he told me himself.

He is not particularly financially motivated and I don't think he will be spiteful about money.

We have had the business on the market since we relocated - April 2010. His operation wasn't planned - it was done, not quite as an emergency but for pressing medical reasons. He found it very stressful as it was on a delicate part of his anatomy. Despite what may appear, I don't think he has been planning this for a long time.

I don't think he would make us move out - but he knows I can't force hm without an injunction and I don't think I would have grounds. Not sure what my options would be, he has expressed a wish to keep our 5 year old at the sane school till she is 9, and to maintain stability for my older children.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 07-Jan-13 18:27:37

Are you still doing his chore - laundry, shopping, cooking etc?

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 07-Jan-13 18:27:47

chores

AnyFucker Mon 07-Jan-13 18:31:44

Please tell us you are not. Nor that you are still sleeping with him.

TippiShagpile Mon 07-Jan-13 18:32:41

I think the best thing you can do right now is to speak to a family solicitor and get some practical advice about separation/finances etc.

I just don't see how you can continue to live together without you suffering from a mental health point of view.

I know that a lot of posters have given very frank (and imvho very good) advice to get rid. However, I worry that if you are all under one roof there's a part of you that's waiting for him to "see the light" and decide you are what he wants after all. I just don't think that's going to happen.

Mu1berryBush Mon 07-Jan-13 18:34:15

the best you can hope for is that he has some respect for you for the next 30 years. That's more likely if you stop pandering to his needs and start suiting yourself.

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 18:43:31

No, we're not sleeping together but I'm still running the house as he is working. Since the business sale, I'm not working yet so I don't have an income. Actually, when he's here he does most of the cooking anyway.

AnyFucker Mon 07-Jan-13 18:51:03

I would "run the house" ie. keep it clean and look after dc if I was living there and not working.

But his laundry and other domestic needs would be his own. He would be cooking and eating his own meals alone.

garlicbollocks Mon 07-Jan-13 18:59:46

Unless the rules have changed since my day, a divorce court doesn't consider you separated unless you are specifically not sharing meals, laundry, holidays and a few other things - there are lists online. X2 and I used to eat together if we were both in, but were positively paranoid about letting anybody know. (We also had sex sometimes blush and damn well didn't tell anyone that!)

You should probably get forms from the court - or a divorce website - and become legally separate. It'll concentrate your minds wonderfully, as well as easing the path should you eventually divorce.

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 19:05:42

Thank you for the advice but as its only 10 days since the idea was first introduced, am not quite ready for that. Have counselling appointment tomorrow so will talk things through. I do appreciate all the input though.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 07-Jan-13 19:07:01

Yes, all his laundry, bed making, ironing, shopping, cooking etc should be left for him to do. The whole point is to make him feel the loss of domestic comforts. As it is, he is taking the piss.

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 19:08:28

He does 80% of cooking for the whole family anyway!

garlicbollocks Mon 07-Jan-13 19:24:08

Sorry, Totally, I realised that after I'd hit post blush

HecatePropolos Mon 07-Jan-13 19:27:54

Ah. sorry to read that.

I did think it would probably be the case.

I strongly believe that if he's done it 3 times - that's what's happening now. And if you could compare notes with his three previous wives - they'd be able to describe to you the life you are currently leading.

I bet he is preparing to be on his way again, and it's only a matter of time now.

I'm sorry.

Backroomgirl Mon 07-Jan-13 23:52:13

Finding this one sadly familiar op!

Have you spoken to his brother, maybe you could get him to talk to DH?

Totallydistraught Mon 07-Jan-13 23:58:48

I have spoken to both his brothers (he would have a fit if he knew) - they are both really disappointed and angry but sadly, not totally unsurprised, though they both thought that being a father might change things this time. Apparently he announced it just as he was leaving, and his brother told him not to give up yet.

Backroomgirl Tue 08-Jan-13 00:05:31

So sorry op, didn't see the original thread referred to. Is DH having the alleged affair? It's not clear from what you say now, strikes me that DH is just on the move, whatever his motivation. This isn't helpful I guess, but maybe time you just got out or got him out

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 00:09:46

Well, unlike most MNers who have posted, I am not totally convinced he is having an affair, he says not but I wouldn't be totally surprised. My local friends who know them both also think that it's unlikely but in some ways it doesn't matter so much now. Leaving is leaving is leaving, after all...

Backroomgirl Tue 08-Jan-13 00:19:54

I tend to agree op, leaving is leaving, it becomes prurient to know why in the end but we all need a reason! Have you got an escape route planned? I'm a complete tart but I'd be hunting simply at a vengeful level!! I really hope you come out on top in this x

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 00:24:01

No escape route yet, planning to sit tight in our nice village thatched house as long as possible. Whilst I do feel angry and quite often specifically punchy, I don't want to get locked in a vengeful battle as we have to co parent and we can't afford to waste thousands on legal fees. I need to use my energy to work for a positive outcome for myself and my lovely DC's.

Backroomgirl Tue 08-Jan-13 00:41:30

Good call op,I can only admire your strength! Get a shag soonest though, and get him out of your bed quickly, he no longer has access rights!

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 02:41:30

Oh dear. Brother no 2 told him I had called, although he promised me he wouldn't say anything. He is very angry and upset with DH, understandably, and DH is spitting. I can see why but I think he finds it difficult to accept that his decision may not please people. We had quite a spat, probably healthy, in which he suggested that he thinks I am actually quite relieved it's over as my distress doesn't 'seem genuine.' Fuck me, my sobbing and snots seemed to annoy him, perhaps he would be satisfied if I opened a vein. I clarified that I was absolutely devastated, and if he thought anything less, he was kidding himself and trying to make himself feel less guilty. Going to get some initial legal advice next week. Feel sad but a tiny bit stronger.

MumVsKids Tue 08-Jan-13 02:47:53

Oh op sad

FWIW I did wonder if the brothers would keep it to themselves.

Hope you're ok x

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 03:03:54

He hasn't got the warm understanding response he was hoping. What on earth did he expect?

badinage Tue 08-Jan-13 09:36:10

Your husband knows that his brothers will deduce that he's up to his old tricks again, so that's why he's spitting fury. All the time this was a secret he could kid you that there was no-one else involved, even though by the sounds of it there is a likely suspect who's probably currently wearing a hastily re-purchased pendant.....

I'm glad you're going to get legal advice, but please re-consider your decision to remain under the same roof while all this is going on. Secrecy is likely to elongate your difficulties too - is this Caroline woman married?

If she is - and you booted your husband out on his ear and word got around that he'd suddenly exited your marriage - would that make her husband suspicious?

TippiShagpile Tue 08-Jan-13 09:41:50

Now that he knows that his brothers know what he's been up to he may move out. There's no longer a pretence to keep up. I know it's not what you want but I do think it's the best thing for you - get some distance from him and work on moving forward with your life.

HappyNewHissy Tue 08-Jan-13 09:56:08

WTF? He said you're not distressed enough? What does he want? For you to dissolve completely? What an ARSE!

Hold your head up high love, this is HIS failure, not yours.

Whatever he's up to, it doesn't matter, you need to leave HIM for dust.

You're worth a million of him. Seriously.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 10:27:46

Feeling so strange this am. He didn't come to bed and I came down about 6am and was told he didn't want to be in the same room as me. He has subsequently apologised, he had quite a bit of brandy last night...

I have expressed my concern at his reassurance of financial provision for us and he has suggested mediation so we have something formal written up. I suppose that's something. Still feeling so desperately sad...

badinage Tue 08-Jan-13 10:53:03

Sod mediation. Get your own legal advice first.

This man is cruel.

Mediation only works when a split is reasonably amicable and finances are straightforward.

Is Caroline married?

HappyNewHissy Tue 08-Jan-13 10:54:52

Please love, don't put yourself through this.

Tell him to go.

TippiShagpile Tue 08-Jan-13 11:03:50

He's punishing you for not keeping quiet.

He's suggesting mediation to stop you from seeking independent advice.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:05:16

Caroline is married but she and her husband are separating. Yes, I know, but I still think they are not planning a life together, although I know you all think otherwise. Local friends of mine who know them both agree but only time will tell on that front.

I can ask him to go but he doesn't have to at this stage, as we jointly own the house.

We spoke this morning and agreed we need to improve things at home for the time being, for our own sanity and for the security of the children.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:05:55

He has suggested a number of times that I see a solicitor and I have arranged an appointment for next week.

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 11:06:36

Your husband is resenting your dignity in the face of stuff that would have some women screaming like a fishwife and going round to "Caroline's" to put her windows through.

He loves to witness the drama of him doesn't he ? Don't give him the satisfaction of being yet another devastated bit player left behind in the wake of his ongoing bittersweet romantic soap opera

Hullygully Tue 08-Jan-13 11:09:08

It's all about HIM

HIM HIM HIM

Like all fucked-up narcissists no one else is really real to him.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:09:25

Trouble is, with putting Caroline's windows through is that we live in a tiny village - only 40 kids in the entire school and our respective daughters are in the same class. It's very tempting though!

Time will tell. They certainly wouldn't be popular if they got together and stayed round here....

TippiShagpile Tue 08-Jan-13 11:11:06

Can't you get an appointment earlier than next week? Was it someone your H suggested? If you do go ahead with the appointment then please don't tell your H what the solictor says.

I'm really sorry OP but your H is calling all the shots here and to an outsider it looks like he has complete control over you and he knows it. I'm sorry.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:11:21

Like all fucked-up narcissists no one else is really real to him.

Totally agree. Spoke again to brother number 1 this morning, they are all shocked but sadly unsurprised. The rest of them all have had long happy marriages and are at a loss to understand him.

Carolina and her husband are splitting now.

You and your husband are splitting now.

Caroline and your husband were texting each other day and night last year.

You really don't see a coincidence?

He has to leave your house, surely.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:12:37

No, the solicitor wasn't suggested by him. There aren't many in this town but I know one of the partners in this firm, although she doesn't specialise in family law herself.

badinage Tue 08-Jan-13 11:13:18

Jesus, talk about a smoking gun.........

Look, these two are currently plotting against you and her husband. Do you know him? Have you spoken to him and told him that coincidentally, your husband also wants a separation?

The only reason he's still there is because they are still cracking on to everyone that nothing's going on and they can't be seen to be moving in together just yet.

No he doesn't have to go, but why on earth haven't you asked him to?

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:13:22

I can't make him leave, unfortunately.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:14:42

Yes, I know her husband well. He and my DH are good friends too, so he knows what's happening with us.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:17:25

Look, I'm not stupid and and I'm not being deliberately obtuse. I can put two and two together but that's not necessarily going to give me the right answer. I have thought about it constantly but all I can say is that other of my friends who know them both don't think they are setting up together. Only time will tell.

I'm sorry Totallydistraught, You seemed so certain that there is not an OW, and now you say that the silver pendant woman is leaving her husband. Surely, somewhere in the back of your mind you know that they are planning this together?.

badinage Tue 08-Jan-13 11:17:40

What's all this about him texting her day and night last year? Does her husband know that? Have you spoken to him yourself?

Why won't you ask your husband to leave?

TippiShagpile Tue 08-Jan-13 11:17:59

I agree. They are playing the long game.

They'll separate and get the divorce proceedings ticking along nicely.

He'll rent somewhere local for 6/12 months and then they'll announce to the world they've just got together (I'm guessing about mid March) and isn't it so lovely after all they've been through that they've found each other blah blah blah

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:18:45

I am not certain and it would certainly fit his previous patterns but I am not convinced. It doesn't really matter - if he's leaving, he's leaving.

tzella Tue 08-Jan-13 11:19:45

Is he leaving? Is he getting his stuff together and looking for somewhere?

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:19:52

He'll rent somewhere local for 6/12 months and then they'll announce to the world they've just got together (I'm guessing about mid March) and isn't it so lovely after all they've been through that they've found each other blah blah blah

It's a distinct possibility, I can't deny it.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:20:29

No, he's making no moves to leave at the moment. He has nowhere to go.

badinage Tue 08-Jan-13 11:22:17

Yes but why won't you ask him to?

And have you talked to Caroline's husband? Does he know what you know?

Oh Totally. sad

He has nowhere to go yet because she hasn't moved out.

You haven't linked to the old thread, but I remember that there were loads of flirty, sexual texts and about three or four one-to-one meetings and he went hysterical when you asked him not to see her anymore.

Stay strong and tell him to F* off.

tzella Tue 08-Jan-13 11:24:52

He can find somewhere to go. Really.

I read this on here a lot - that some men say "It's over" then just sit there, waiting for their now ex partner to make the next move, and the ex partner can't or doesn't really want to.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:28:00

I haven't talked to her husband. I sent her a text before Christmas asking her again to back off, and he responded to me, saying my contact was inappropriate. He is trying to maintain their relationship so is backing her all the way. She won't be moving out, he is going at half term, at the moment at things stand.

I will only know in the fullness of time but it all seems a bit irrelevant now our marriage is broken down.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:29:56

It is probably easier to see things clearly from a distance but I am just not ready at the moment for him to leave right now.

Mu1berryBush Tue 08-Jan-13 11:30:31

Also, wrt what your friends say to you, while he is under your roof not one of your friends is brave enough to say 'yes, actually I DO think they are going to set up home together'. Who wants to be the first friend to puncture your denial? to be the messenger that gets shot. I guess your friends don't ACTUALLY KNOW FOR A FACT either way, all they have is their gut, but it may be a less subjective gut than yours. So, supposing one of your friends takes on the role of messenger and tells you that their gut feeling is that there is something going on. You will want facts and figures to back up their gut. they don't have any different facts from the facts you have. They have just put them together differently. So, I can well understand why your friends don't say to you 'oh yeah i think they're planning to be together'. 1) you'd question what had led them to believe that/say that. And what can they say? It's just their gut feeling and doesn't trump your gut feeling so that's a conversation that would go nowhere. It would hurt you and if they are your friends they don't want to put salt in your wounds. While I'm on that analogy though, doesn't salt clean the wound and make it heal better in the long term? But in the immediate short term it stings so badly.

I hope that makes sense. What I mean is, don't take your friends' thoughts that this pair aren't together as proof that they are not together.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but I #ve been in the position of saying what I knew a friend needed to hear right at that moment.

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 11:31:53

OP, I think people are not understanding why you are being so passive

You seem to be basing your belief that these two are not planning their new life together on the idea that a couple of your friends have poo-poo'ed it and that they would "face bad feeling in the village" if they did. This man is starring in his own episodic "star crossed lovers" long running serial

Your biggest guide to what he is doing now is past behaviour

Can you accept that at least ?

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:34:24

One of my local friends has actually suggested it but has seen nothing apart from chatty stuff on Facebook that everyone else saw. The rest don't think so, although they agree the 'friendship' was too much. There's no proof either way at this point, and nothing will change the fact that the marriage is over.

TippiShagpile Tue 08-Jan-13 11:35:33

You say you aren't ready for him to leave yet.

From where I'm sitting it doesn't look like you ever will.

Or go to see that solicitor.

You deserve much better than this.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:35:52

Yes, I can accept that past behaviour is an indicator. What does it really matter to the outcome of my marriage?

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:36:29

I have a solicitors appointment next Tuesday at 11am. I will be going.

Mu1berryBush Tue 08-Jan-13 11:36:30

Yupp, my x, to my surprise, turned up in court recently, suited, bespoke booted, dolce & gabanna spec frames, calf leather slip case........ you get the picture. This is a man who was abusive and who has paid no maintenance for over five years and yet he put himself before the judge like a man who had nothing to be ashamed of. He carried himself like a man with every right to feel righteous and proud. Do you understand that he will not see that he has behaved badly. He will create a new script. 'we were miserable, we had grown apart, for the sake of the child we had to separate'. You will probably be astonished but he will be out and about in the village like a man who has nothing to hide and nothing to feel awkward about.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:37:32

Its only been 10 days since my life has been ripped apart. I am taking a little time to process.

Mu1berryBush Tue 08-Jan-13 11:38:41

Good for you totallyD.

Practise what questions you'll ask and write them down. It can be hard to write down all the questions because often some of your questions depend on the answers to previous questions so i had a list of questions and i also had a kind of flow-venn questions in boxes crib sheet and I STILL came out of the solicitors realising Oh I never asked x,y&z

In one way it doesn't matter, you're right. If it's dead, it's dead.

In another way it does. In your op, you say its him being under stress, there's no love, its the business, the last three years etc.

Actually, its none of that. Here is a serial philanderer on his 4th marriage, who true to selfish form, has been having an affair with one of your friends, who suddenly is deciding to divorce her husband.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:39:51

I don't think he thinks he has behaved particularly badly, although I have repeatedly told him so. That's why he was so angry his brothers weren't sympathetic. He will feel it if he stays here, I have lots of supportive friends.

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 11:40:48

Well, love, it does matter.

Because I think you are going to hang on and hope this all blows over, therefore leaving all the power to hurt you and humiliate you in his hands. If it isn't "Caroline" it will be someone else.

He isn't going to leave until he and she are good and ready. That could be some time, or not at all since he is still getting the warm family stoked at home. He even said "things have to improve at home" meaning you need to shut up moaning and let him get on with his dalliance in peace.

Mu1berryBush Tue 08-Jan-13 11:41:34

TotallyDistraught, yeh I get that. We are speeding up that process and without a doubt, denial is a form of protection. It stabalises you when the rug has been ripped out from under you because it means you only have to digest what little amount of truth you can bring yourself to believe.

BUT...... in the long term, You will have more dignity if you can look back and know that you didn't fall for the lies, that you approached a solicitor sooner rather than later, that you faught your own corner. It's not about being a bitch. But you need to look after you from now on and when you're looking back on this raising your eyes to heaven with your friends (and you will) you'll feel less humiliated if you know that you saw things how they WERE not how he told you they were, and that you very quickly made sure that you were going to march to the beat of your own drum from now on.

badinage Tue 08-Jan-13 11:41:49

Agree entirely that your friends don't want to be the messenger and in a village setting, they probably don't want to get overly involved as everyone's known to eachother.

But anyone who heard this story would be thinking it.

I'm really sorry you're not ready to ask him to leave. You're going to get more and more rundown and browbeaten by this cruel, cruel man and that's definitely going to have an effect on your child.

What do your older kids say about all this - and your own family?

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:42:03

Going to get ready to see my counsellor now, will catch up later on. Thanks to everyone for their comments.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:43:17

My older kids don't know yet. My family are devastated, supportive and furious.

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 11:43:29

it's not been 10 days, this "situation" has been several months in his making

you have simply chosen denial until now, and boy you are still determined to hang onto it with every shred of your being

you will see this with time

Mu1berryBush Tue 08-Jan-13 11:45:56

ps, also, what his brothers think is yesterdays fish and chip wrapping.

Start to think of them as x BILS. You don't have to be unpleasant to them! But you do have to realise for your own sake that what they think of the relationship doesn't actually matter in any real way. Even if you were still happy with your h, what your bils make of it all doesn't improve the relationship.

Having the good opinion of your bils is nice I guess. I walked away with my x's entire family demonising me. Other side of the coin but like you I made the mistake of thinking that their opinion, their 'take' on it all mattered. A while later I realised that what these people makde of the relationship or of me mattered far less than zip.

what mattered was that I escaped, strong, sane, content and ready for the rest of my life.

And as I type that i know that it's only been ten days for you.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 11:48:45

It's 10 days since I found out he was finished with the marriage, I am not in denial about that.

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 11:51:28

So you accept your marriage is over, but you don't want him to leave. Why ?

Mu1berryBush Tue 08-Jan-13 11:52:31

take care of your self totallydistraught. I hope the counsellor makes you feel better. can be like a valve just telling somebody everything! and do tell her everything. x

Mu1berryBush Tue 08-Jan-13 11:53:34

Half term is a long way away.

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 11:56:13

I am sorry to be harsh, love

But I don't think you are protecting yourself, and you can be damn sure he won't. So who is ? Not your family/friends other than on a superficial level. Yes, they are angry for you and devastated at what he is doing. But they go back to their own nuclear families at the end of the day and you are on your own, with this cruel man.

Please, get more proactive.

HappyNewHissy Tue 08-Jan-13 12:22:18

No-one WANTS the person they are with to leave, not even when you know they have to go, that they are hurting you or could really physically harm you. None of us want that. It's like admitting defeat.

Thing is OP, it's not OUR defeat. He failed you, as he failed his former wives. You are hanging on to the hope that YOU would be the one that succeeded.

But this is not about you, not in the slightest. For some warped reason, this bloke you are married to can't allow himself the luxury of being settled, happy and content. He clearly has self esteem issues and feels unentitled to be happy, so will set about destroying every relationship he has.

The harder you try, the more he will fight to prove himself right.

You can't help him, you can't change him, you can't make the slightest bit of difference. he pressed the Destruct button.

You now have only ONE option, to get yourself and those that depend on you, to safety. His brooding presence in your life is stripping you of dignity, self-esteem and hope.

He needs to get out.

He needed to get out before christmas, last year, and probably before that too, but that is in the past now.

Your H and this Caroline have similar partners in you and her H. You blame HER (your text pre-christmast to tell her to back off) and He blames your H (by telling you that ALL contact from your combined quarter is unwelcome)

You were let down by your H. He's not thinking about HER H.

Caroline did the same to her H, not you. You don't figure in her thoughts at all.

Get your focus right, take control over your life, your home and your dignity.

If you allow him to pollute your environment until he is ready, and her H does the same, then there IS a big change that they are planning this.

So wreck the plans, tell him to go TODAY, that he is being unreasonable and cruel to you by staying and that you deserve some space and peace to work things through.

He needs to go. A decent man would go.

HappyNewHissy Tue 08-Jan-13 12:23:10

change = chance

apols for typos too.

blush

Mu1berryBush Tue 08-Jan-13 13:28:30

They say the best revenge is to live well, and it sounds like bullshit when you're the one who is dealing with betrayal, having been abused/failed/cheated on/let down generally. But years on, I know it's not bullshit. I am capable of being content. I am hardwired all things being well in my life to be HAPPY. my x is not. It can take five years to get to the point where you feel superior again, but although it's not about that, I do feel that now. Hth

Backroomgirl Tue 08-Jan-13 16:07:09

Op, loads of advice to be proactive here, gotta agree with it! Get your life back. Help him find somewhere to go maybe though as throwing out will traumatise the kids won't it? U really gotta move on then, have some fun if nothing else!!

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 18:26:10

how did the counselling go, OP ?

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 19:08:16

It was good, she says she thinks I am doing well in the circumstances and have capacity for happiness in the future and I came out feeling pretty positive. Then I get home....he is bantering with my 13 yr old DS and all I can think of is the destruction to come. Off to choir tonight, a good sing helps. Then a birthday breakfast in the morning. Trying to keep busy.

garlicbollocks Tue 08-Jan-13 19:19:25

Good luck! Glad you're keeping busy ... Is it your birthday?

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 21:46:41

Your birthday ? Many happy returns. Let's hope you are in a more peaceful place by the time your next one rolls along. Although of course, you can make sure that is entirely in your own hands.

Totallydistraught Tue 08-Jan-13 22:03:26

Not mine, no, one of my girlfriends. But an unexpected invite - so I'm making the most of it!

AnyFucker Tue 08-Jan-13 22:17:22

Ah, have a nice time anyway. And what I say still stands smile

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee Tue 08-Jan-13 23:26:38

Enjoy the breakfast in the morning. You are going to need your friends now more than ever. Try to forget about all of this while you are there.

Totallydistraught Wed 09-Jan-13 00:12:43

I will do, thanks. Currently watching DVDs in front of the fire. DH has had rare trip to pub for friend's birthday. Found myself being disappointed when he came back earlier than expected. He and his buddy are currently ensconced in the garage, smoking and drinking whiskey. Think I am the more comfortable!

Totallydistraught Wed 09-Jan-13 00:14:48

I have also arranged a weekend away, with a very old and dear friend in Essex this weekend. Feel nervous about being so far away from home, we are in the West Country but think it will give me a bit of time off.

Totallydistraught Wed 09-Jan-13 00:35:35

But this is not about you, not in the slightest. For some warped reason, this bloke you are married to can't allow himself the luxury of being settled, happy and content. He clearly has self esteem issues and feels unentitled to be happy, so will set about destroying every relationship he has.

This. Very perceptive!

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 00:49:51

For some warped reason, this bloke you are married to can't allow himself the luxury of being settled, happy and content. He clearly has self esteem issues and feels unentitled to be happy, so will set about destroying every relationship he has.

Totally This is something you should say to him camly DH, Im sad that our marriage is ending, i hope you get the help you need to enable you to stay happy and settled, after me will be your 5th attempt at marriage, i think you punish yourself by ruining things, because you think you dont deserve it, when things were good, they were worth staying together for, i hope you find peace with yourself, it saddens me to say but i think you should move out until we can discuss the finer detail, shall i help you pack your things

badinage Wed 09-Jan-13 01:10:13

I don't agree with that though.

It makes him sound like a tragic figure who just can't help ruining his own life and everyone else's.

I think this bloke is highly entitled and every time his life gets a bit 'real' or tough, he gives himself the reward of a new love affair and fucks over the last woman he promised was the love of his life.

Low self-esteem my arse.

Totallydistraught Wed 09-Jan-13 01:16:35

I can see something of both, to be honest.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 01:24:45

Badinage Either is possible, but the above will atleast give the OP the dignity she deserves. TBH, hes a man-child, who dont like rollercoasters, because the fall always comes after the high, my ex was much the same, happy when it was good, but fuck the world if it got a bit shit.

OP You may love him, but you shouldnt have to live your life waiting for him to grow up or get better, his own brothers are disappointed, he may have another woman or maybe, probably does, because it'll be new and exciting, more than like marriage number 5 will probably go the same way, because hes a child who cant cope with the bad,

Totallydistraught Wed 09-Jan-13 01:33:05

Greg, much to my chagrin, I still love him, though his behaviour stinks. I'm making moves to get my life going, regardless.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 01:45:58

Totally I still loved my ex after he had an emotional then left, unfortunately, Love cant be turned on and off like a switch, its like an addict you get used to the life you made, and when it changes it hurts, but it does get better, once the head clears and the self worth gets higher, the impact is less, you'll be fine without him, lesson learned, he doesnt deserve your loyalty, and its something hes gonna have to miss.

garlicbollocks Wed 09-Jan-13 10:54:52

There's nothing wrong with taking a lofty approach. Having sympathy for the failings of a soon-to-be ex can help save one's dignity and, ime, provide some necessary distance. In the end, it doesn't matter how you frame it: "tragically flawed" covers a multitude of crimes. It's just a matter of arriving at a perspective that suits you.

You can't expect love to turn off at the flick of a switch, Totally! Usually it sort of runs down. Have you ever had an old car that you kept taking to the garage, until one day you sadly realised it wasn't worth the endless repairs? A bit like that! You keep driving it, going from optimism to exasperation at its coughs & groans, until one day it conks out and you're actually relieved it's over. You're doing the right thing by staying connected with your own, personal life - the more 'full' you are, socially and emotionally, the easier it will be to find your independent balance.

At the risk of sounding a bit gushy, I really do want to repeat that you sound like a lovely person!

cakehappy Wed 09-Jan-13 11:19:05

Hi OP, I think that you have been treated a bit harshly by other posters, you are doing so so well compared to what I would be like!! Such a painful time for you, I am sorry that things have turned out like this. Only time will tell about the OW, and I agree, its the end of the marriage no matter what way it went. Sorry for you, such a hard time.

Totallydistraught Wed 09-Jan-13 14:24:11

Thank you garlicbollocks and cakehappy - I do appreciate your words. Went for breakfast but not having a good day. Am in tears a lot - suspect its really kicking in now. Going to be proactive and make some calls to collect some information so I can be prepared for practical discussions. Am totally heartbroken.

badinage Wed 09-Jan-13 14:52:21

Really sorry to hear you're having such a sad day.

Just so I can 'get' where you're at with this though, have I understood things correctly, bearing in mind there's no link to other threads?

This other relationship with Caroline has been going on for a long time and you were sufficiently concerned about it that you went to counselling and got him to return the inappropriate present he bought for her? (Was that a Xmas pressie?)

But he resented this and said you were trying to control him?

Bearing in mind how you two got together and his previous relationship history, you could see the signs. Then she ended her marriage shortly followed by him ending yours.

When did all this start and did it ever get addressed in the counselling you had? What did the counsellor say about Caroline? What does her husband actually know?

I get that he ended things only 10 days ago, but it seems there's been a much longer build-up, unless you say otherwise. If I've understood this incorrectly though and it really was a complete bolt from the blue, I understand your shock better.

Totallydistraught Wed 09-Jan-13 15:50:44

The 'friendship' with Caroline has been going on since about September. He suggested counselling as we kept going round and round about the issues. I was a bit depressed in the summer as I was exhausted after the business sale but he felt I was deliberately disengaging with him and behaving selfishly. He says he believes I was planning to leave him - this is why I think he may have been having some sort of delayed stress reaction as he made some strange paranoid suggestions to me. I kept focussing on Caroline, not that he was having an affair but that his friendship with her was too intense and not comfortable. So we just kept going round in circles.

The christmas present was apparently chosen by my daughter with him, we had bought presents for all her family, husband and kids, because we all socialised together.

It was brought up in counselling but we only had 4 sessions because he then refused to go as he said there was no point. The counsellor focussed on other longer term issues with him - particularly his pattern of leaving relationships, which he obviously resented.

It has been rumbling for a few months but the actual point of no return seemed to come very rapidly. He says that it has been a process of attrition and his feelings wore down to the point where he just doesn't want to be with me. I know I was hard work in the summer, but that's what marriage is about, supporting eachother through the hard times. We have been together 7 years and our marriage deserved more effort - that's the bit that hurts the most.

badinage Wed 09-Jan-13 16:29:11

Thanks for the clarification.

If you've been friends with these bods for some time, I'd put money on his feelings for Caroline turning inappropriate way before September. But funnily enough, you said earlier that you thought it was the business sale that was the catalyst for things taking a turn for the worse and even named the month. You said:

"It's been since it has sold that things have gone downhill - about September onwards."

and yet the most obvious reason for things going downhill that month was his affair starting with Caroline. You've said in your last post that:

"The 'friendship' with Caroline has been going on since about September."

What I think's happened here is that much earlier in the summer, he started having reciprocated feelings for Caroline and started projecting a load of complaints on to you.

I'm wondering whether you only discovered stuff in September and because he was treating you like crap you decided to do some investigating then?

But by that time, it was already too late?

I would stop thinking that your behaviour and actions have got anything to do with what's happened.

I think that's what you were meant to think.

Totallydistraught Wed 09-Jan-13 16:38:12

Actually, the list of complaints is so petty, that I know this is not to do with me. My mistake was investing my emotions and future with someone who is not able to commit to me and my children.

GregBishopsBottomBitch Wed 09-Jan-13 16:44:56

Then a man who wants to leave on the basis of petty, is obviously childish and petty himself, he just wants you to take the blame, dont, because he's responsible for himself. In time, you'll be happy in your world, us girls move on because thats what we do.

badinage Wed 09-Jan-13 16:49:50

I'd give yourself a bit of a break about that. You were in good company; at least 5 women thought the same eh? Caroline still does, I shouldn't wonder....

I'm glad you realise that the petty complaints were false and that these have got nothing to do with why he wants out.

I still think you've got to make a shift though from thinking that this has got anything to do with the business, his operation or his low self-esteem. Although someone who's a serial cheat is chronically selfish and entitled and their affairs are just symptoms of that, they don't deserve even a shred of sympathy about the damage they cause to themselves.

The people who deserve the sympathy are the innocent men, women and kids who get destroyed in their wake.

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