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Support thread for those going through divorce..?

(183 Posts)
ChangeAfoot Fri 04-Jan-13 18:04:59

It looks as though H and I are going to get divorced, have first appointments with lawyers booked over the next few days. I'm feeling horribly erratic - it was his decision but we've been miserable for ages and he's very difficult to live with. There's also been an affair (his), and his non-stop complaints and criticism, and in recent months his unemployment, to wear us down.

I was wondering if there was already a support thread for those going through these trials, because I'm so up and down and absolutely gutted about the end of "the dream" (albeit a shit one where you wake up in a cold sweat wink) and worrying about what lies ahead - social pariah-hood and destitution, if my worst fears were ever to be realised. I'm so tearful a lot of the time, although am already having flashes of feeling lighter and wondering whether I'll look back and thank my lucky stars.

If there isn't already a thread, and anyone else in a similar position fancies venting with me, then be my guest grin

<seethes in anticipation>

mowmi Fri 04-Jan-13 18:34:09

Hello, I'm 7 months in but can't get my husband to leave house! Happy to vent onc ei get the little one to go to bed!

Hope you are ok.

She70 Fri 04-Jan-13 18:40:52

I'm I'm for a chat/vent/support. I haven't actually started divorce proceedings yet but will do. My h moved out of our home almost 2 months ago now leaving me with 2dc, 5&2. Devastated doesn't come close even though things hadn't been good for a long time. I did actually think we were doing better but it seems not. Some days I really struggle to get through, others I feel ok and almost excited about the changes. That doesn't last long though. I think I've averaged about 4hrs sleep a night since he left so am running on auto pilot much of the time.

I look forward to chatting!

NoThankYouToSideSalad Fri 04-Jan-13 18:54:19

It's on the cards for us for 2013. I'm initiating it -have been unhappy for years and our relationship is as dead as a dodo. We sleep in separate bedrooms and haven't had sex for 9 years (my choice). Tried to convince myself for years that I could live without intimacy and affection for the sake of DC. Instead, I became a miserable shadow of my former self. Fortunately, my OH finally accepts it's over and we will separate as soon as I can get back into work - not easy in the current economic climate.

In the meantime, I'm preparing myself for singledom by re-connecting with old friends and looking after myself. Finally feeling the "old" me returning which is a very good thing! grin However, whilst excited by the thought of my new life, I sometimes feel completely overwhelmed by the thought of what my future will entail: telling DC; coping with 2 DC, 2 dogs and a full-time job (hopefully); the financial responsibility for myself and DC; and the horrors of dating again.

MirandaWest Fri 04-Jan-13 19:03:23

I am going to get divorced in 2013 - XH and I separated in April 2011 and I think we're going to wait until the 2 years are up so we can just d it that way. Want to pay my tax bill before starting things but will go and see a solicitor for a free half hour at some point.

Think I may need prodding to actually get around to doing things - tbh if I waited for XH to do anything I think we'd still be married in about 30 years time hmm. There's not much in the way of finances (we made a mess of them a few years ago and needed to sell our house and rent when that happened) so at least no house selling to do. We are amicable enough and DC see him regularly. Maintenance is based on CSA and I adjust it for how many nights he has them oer month as it alters from month to month.

I am a lot happier now then towards the end of the marriage and the DC are fine too. Just want to be properly unmarried as DD puts it smile

MirandaWest Fri 04-Jan-13 19:04:10

Dating can turn out to be an unexpected pleasure as well I have found grin

ChangeAfoot Fri 04-Jan-13 19:42:55

Glad it's not just me then was worried for a brief moment grin

Thanks all for replying. mowmi - you will know me under a different name (I'll PM you... it was from the ttc days!). Sorry to hear you're going through similar. H too wants to live here until things are sorted; we're only on day 3 and it's already driving me mad.

She70 "devastated doesn't even come close". Big hug. I can't get my head around my future landscape. (Wondering if you're the same age as me from your MN name...) smile

NoThankYou - I also need to get back to work, having been a 'trailing spouse' when I was pg and moving abroad. We moved back a year ago (thank GOD this didn't happen while we were still there..). In a way I think this could be the making of me because I've been so bloody miserable and drained by all the crap in our relationship, it's been a struggle to think about doing anything other than trying to be a good mother and keep a relatively functional house.

And Miranda - thanks for the positive spin re. dating - I can't even imagine such thrills!

NoThankYouToSideSalad Fri 04-Jan-13 20:02:59

She70 I have found that just the process of looking for work - getting the suit back on, joining LinkedIn, chasing old contacts- has given me a huge confidence boost. Now, that just needs to translate into a job! smile

Miranda - I fear I am a complete dating wuss. I lurk on the mn thread and the thought of OD fills me with absolute horror. Good God, I just don't think I could cope with random men sending me photos of their genitalia - eeeeuuuuww!! shock

NoThankYouToSideSalad Fri 04-Jan-13 20:07:51

Ooops - comment re work should have been addressed to Change blush.

She70 Have you spoken to your doctor about your lack of sleep? Poor you, you must be absolutely shattered with such little sleep and 2 young DC.

Dillie Fri 04-Jan-13 20:29:30

I will book my place here too.

I have told my H I want us to separate 2 weeks before Christmas. My timing sucked, but I couldn't wait until the new year. It is because of many things, his jealousy mainly and the guilt trip he runs because I want a life! Plus sometimes making me feel no more than a piece of poo on his shoe!

He wrote me a letter at new year (that my 7 yo dd found part of!) saying sorry for everything. Sorry for the put downs, snide comments, not trusting etc. He says he will fight his demons but can only do that with me and dd by his side!

He refuses to move out. I am in the spare room which I have made comfy. It is driving me crazy! He wants to wait 6 months, but I don't think I can wait that long!

Financially I am slightly better off staying in the home, plus I won't have to uproot my dd from her friends and her school is just down the road.

So I am kinda stuck. I am having therapy to help me with anxiety and depression caused by this mess! I want him gone, but I am taking to a wall! sad

She70 Fri 04-Jan-13 20:41:36

salad no I haven't spoken to a Dr but think I will have to next week. I am so tired that some days I don't think I function normally. Not good. Any idea what they might prescribe as I've never taken any pills. Getting to sleep isn't a problem but I generally wake at 3/4am and then my mind starts working overtime. I have so many unknowns about the future that I feel very unsettled and insecure. I hate it.

I'm also on the look out for a job. Need yo get my cv updated then I'll start hitting the agencies, LinkedIn etc. I used to have a good job so hope I'll find something that I can work round the children. I feel bad for my 2-yr old but I'm sure she will love nursery. But its just something else to feel guilty about isn't it?!

change yes its probably a good guess that we are the same age unless you are 70 smile

How did you all go about finding solicitors. This is my next challenge!

NoThankYouToSideSalad Fri 04-Jan-13 22:17:29

She70 I have no idea what a Dr. may prescribe. When I have periods of sleeplessness, I take a 10mg tablet of Phenegran. They are an over-the-counter travel sickness medication, but they knock me out!

Re. CV, etc. Are you in/ near London? Women Like Us is an organisation which helps women get back into work. They run regular CV clinics as well as life & career coaching which may be helpful to you. They are also linked with TimeWise which advertise part-time jobs. If you are interested, the Women Like Us website will have dates and details of their workshops.

Have no idea how to find a solicitor or at what stage I should be looking for one! Would also appreciate some guidance on this.

ChangeAfoot Fri 04-Jan-13 23:15:52

About to head to sleep after a whole evening of chatting to (lovely and supportive) friends on the phone about recent developments. The sad thing, in a way, is that none of them seem to be surprised by it. I'll be back in the morning to write more. On the solicitor note, I'm meeting one next week which was recommended by a barrister friend-of-friend I met last night. I think it's good to go by recommendation unless you have the luxury of having oodles of cash and being able to just pay for the most expensive. I have been shocked the past two days at the numbers quoted to me on the phone - the woman I'm seeing next week isn't based in central London but just outside, but my friend said if she was getting divorced, this was who she'd use, and she was half the price of the other people I'd spoken to. So fingers crossed...

She70 Sat 05-Jan-13 07:39:13

change How far outside of Central London? I am in Kent but could travel in if necessary. I went to see a solicitor in the few days after I found out my h had gambling debts to get advise and it cost me £319 for 1hr and 12mins of her time!! I'm now too scared to approach any for fear of finding out that this is an average hourly rate! People keep talking about seeing one who offers a free half hour consultation but I can't seem to find any in the Yellow Pages.

It was funny how many of my friends were surprised but not that surprised when I told of the split. They were surprised at the gambling debts but that's because he was always so tight with money. He was obviously saving it to put in a fruit machine!

salad yes I'm close to London. Well in Kent but only an hour away. Someone recommended Timewise to me at the weekend so I've had a quick look. My first priority is to update my cv. It hasn't been done since I started my last job so 10 years ago now. Will check out the website too.

I feel so overwhelmed by everything at the moment. It is still early days but I cannot live with all the uncertainty. The biggest one for me is trying to figure out what to do with regards the house. Sell or stay??!! I just cannot decide and pros and cons for both. If I'm going to have to move, and potentially away from the area as I won't be able to afford anything locally, I'd like to do it soon so that my ds can start a new school year in Sept in a new school rather than mid-year. Doesn't give me much time to decide though.

ChangeAfoot Sat 05-Jan-13 09:39:55

She70 - I'll PM you her details in case you're interested - I don't think she'd be too far from you at all smile I called her because she does Legal Aid cases and I wasn't sure if we'd be eligible (H hasn't worked for 6 months but we're not due to equity etc), but it turns out that her firm have just started offering fixed price offers for divorce, much like the Coop do.

It's a nightmare otherwise I think. I very definitely didn't want to have to just start trawling through the YP or similar..!

ChangeAfoot Sat 05-Jan-13 09:41:11

PS: I asked on here and was told to look for a lawyer on the Resolution website. Have to say living where we do it either seemed to throw up local High Street firms (none of which distinguished themselves for me) or the top central London ones (mega $$$).

She70 Sat 05-Jan-13 14:26:06

Urrghh, another vile encounter with x. I hate how he puts things into my mouth that I haven't said, twists it all to make out I am the bad person here when it was him that f*cked up and walked away from us. Even when I calmly ask him, when exactly did I say xyz he insists I did and no matter how much I say I didn't he refuses to acknowledge. Think we will have to go to mediation to sort anything out as at least then, in front of other people, he can't make up what I said and how I said it!!

His ability to make me doubt myself and rile me is amazing. He has made me into a person I am just not. In his head anyway. I guess its how he justifies himself.

I commend those that are still able to live with their ex's after agreeing to separate. There is no way I could! My biggest relief is when he walks out the door and then I know I don't have to see him for another week!

ChangeAfoot Sat 05-Jan-13 15:12:38

Oh you poor thing. How often do you see him then, each weekend?

I'm very disconcerted here. H went out last night and I called him in a rage at 2am because after previous form, I started seething that he might just not come home and I find his doing whatever he wants whenever he wants utterly infuriating. He was pissed and unbelievably affectionate on the phone, which just left me cold. He's been charm personified today, coming back from doing some chores with macaroons for me and the girls ("I've got a gift for you and Mummy!")... but it's very unnerving. Before he went out last night he was vile, and sent me a series of cold/smug/taunting emails about how what he did was none of my business. All designed to rattle me. Am slightly wondering whether seeing a sol for the first time might have put the wind up him slightly; who knows. Certainly the impression I've been given by the 3 people I've now spoken to is that I'm not in that bad a position, but who knows what he will have been told by someone aiming to represent him. It frightens me to think...

She70 Sat 05-Jan-13 18:42:57

Its so scary isn't it change , not knowing what they will be advised. Can you not come to some sort of agreement without involving solicitors or is that impossible?

I hate hate hate that my x gets to do what the hell he likes. It maddens me that he gets to lie in every day and never ever asks me if I'm ok, how I'm coping etc. I just have to tell myself he is the bigger loser as he misses out so much with the children. And will continue to do so. His visit today last 3hrs before he had to leave to meet somebody. He hasn't seen them since last weekend and isn't now seeing them for another 2 weeks. You'd think he could arrange to meet whoever it was at a different time and actually spend some time with the children.

ChangeAfoot Sat 05-Jan-13 19:25:29

Hugs to you. I have the opposite problem with H in that he is gunning for 50 50 residency/access and I REALLY don't want that. I want them to largely live with me and although I am happy for him to see a lot of them, I want them to largely live with me in one home and then visit a 2nd home, rather than have two equal homes (if that makes sense?).

We've had a horrible exchange today of the "see you in court!" kind; with him saying "yeah, but we'll see whose money runs out first and then see what happens!" with a sneer (he is a high earner normally although currently not working; I am a SAHM with no access to money at the moment). He is absolutely adamant that despite my being the primary carer for the children since birth and him being, well, erratic at best, that he'll get equal treatment. It's a massive deal for me because I really want to stay in the marital home so my DCs life can continue as normal as far as possible; whereas he seems set on disrupting it as much as possible - turfing them out of their nursery, moving houses, and totally changing their routine. <end of rant>

It's all been a bit more civil this evening and he has suggested we talk later. I find this living together thing just so damn hard - I made dinner this afternoon and it really bloody jarred having to make it for him too... but it felt stupidly petty not to have him sit down with me and the children. We're sort of playing happy families for the DC when behind closed doors it couldn't be further from the truth sad

Btw, check your inbox - I sent you details of solicitors earlier, in case it's of any use. smile

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Sat 05-Jan-13 19:45:16

Careful folks - the divorce and the settlement are two different things.

My divorce was cheapish, my settlement about £3000 inc VAT, that was with me doing a lot of the preparation of financial stuff (kids grown). Ex represented himself, this made things more complicated.

Am in NE England, which won't be the highest fee area, paid 120 per hour I think. Sol did negotiating after discussion with me, and did it v well.

If anyone is dealing with an abusive or fuckwitted Ex or Stbx, why not join us on this thread

She70 Sat 05-Jan-13 21:06:26

Oh change I totally sympathise and can understand why you don't want to move, disrupt the children etc etc. I am in exactly the same position. Ideally I want to stay in the marital home but x is saying I can't because I can't afford to buy him out. He also speaks to me in a sneering, patronizing tone. When I pull him up on the way he talks to me, he turns even nastier.

I don't know how you manage to cook for your h. Are you doing his washing as well? I managed to live in the same house for a week only before I had to say enough is enough. My x would probably happily live like that forever. He had his meals cooked, washing done, saw the children etc. What's not to love? Only difference was he had to sleep in the spare room but given he hasn't wanted sex for about 5yrs that definitely didn't bother him!

I got your mail thanks and will follow up on Monday. I also found a local solicitor using the link above who I'm going to call on Monday too. I'm going to ask them about mediation as we have no chance of agreeing anything between us. I wonder if my x will try for joint custody. It will be difficult surely if your h works as how will he collect them from school etc ?

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Sat 05-Jan-13 22:56:52

The principal thing the courts look at, if it gets that far, is provision for the children. Look on the Resolution site for some solutions to the housing question, some of which allow house to be lived in by parent with care and DC until the youngest reaches 18.

You can get quite far down the legal route fairly cheaply - I had to, as Ex would not even provide financial details to my sol, as he had no sol of his own - if he had, they would certainly have advised him to do this. It wasn't until presented with a Form E from the court that he gave them (I knew them anyway, though)

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Sat 05-Jan-13 22:59:05

Also, Ex refused to go to mediation. I had an inital assessment appt with them, which cost £100 (not on legal aid); he didn't even reply to their letter requesting him to make an appointment. It would have cost both of us, you see!

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 01:26:30

My friend did her own divorce online and only paid the fees for Dili g various bits with the court, but her ex was totally amicable which helped a lot.

I got divorced in November after X walked out at Easter.

I got legal aid luckily but it will still cost several hundred for the remortgage and transfer of deeds.

crazygracieuk Sun 06-Jan-13 01:56:55

I'm joining this thread too. Kicked Him out on 30 Dec and we are getting divorced too. He has made a generous financial settlement but I won't be secure until he's signed it. We agree on contact so are going down the DIY route.

I really hope he's not going to be difficult.

crazygracieuk Sun 06-Jan-13 01:58:15

I'm feeling up and down too.

Have tried to fill my social calendar with clubs and groups to try but they all start next week or the week after.

ChangeAfoot Sun 06-Jan-13 09:42:16

Hello crazygracie. That sounds good so far that you've reached a good financial agreement in theory (fingers crossed!) and re. contact too. The stuff divorce dreams are made of! wink

It's all so higgledy piggledy here, I am on a constant rollercoaster of emotions. Ended up having a couple of glasses of wine with H last night and talking about everything - it felt extremely dangerous to be trying to discuss the issues involved (merits of mediation/collaborative law/adversarial law; what we want re residency/parenting; selling the house or otherwise) and I'm not sure it was a good idea. He also went into great detail about how he wants 50 50 parenting and wants to totally scale back his career to do so. This is very frightening to me as I don't work at the moment (as I say intend to start looking for work but can't see me earning much for a while having been out of the market for 4 years and effectively having to start from scratch) and there's no way we can run two households if he does this. It feels like he is deliberately setting about coming up with the exact set of circumstances that would leave me worst off. He even suggested us both moving out of London to somewhere like Kent, which made me feel sick in that he thinks this kind of solution is viable - we almost moved out to Kent a year ago and opted not to in the end; as if I'm going to want to move to an entirely new area knowing nobody other than my bloody ex-husband! angry

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Sun 06-Jan-13 11:19:47

Amicable or not, think very clearly about what you want, and keep firmly to this as a baseline. You can negotiate, preferably with professional help, but don't tip your hand to OH.

Dillie Sun 06-Jan-13 12:08:11

Morning smile

My stbxh has thrown me a bit of a curve ball. We had a bit of a row last night and I said that he has forced me to move out and up root dd . (I had hoped he would move out when I asked him too)

Any way he then said to me "well I told the boss if it didn't work out between us over Christmas I would quit my job" I asked him who would pay for the mortgage (as he earns nearly 3 times the amount that I do) his reply "I don't care, without you,dd or this house I have nothing"

I think you would class him as an EA given what I have had to put up with over the past 14 years (taken me a long while to wake up!) but can he do this just to get back at me?

I am now worried that if he does quit, the house will get Repo'd and I will be up the creek without a paddle and dd will suffer!!! angry

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 13:27:58

Your ex can quit his job if he wants to, there is nothing to stop him, but if he quits, then he wont even get jobseekers for 6 weeks afaik.

He is trying to blackmail you, but you cant stand for it can you. If he quits his job, then he will have nothing to live on either...

I suggest that if you havent already, that its time to look into tax credits, housing benefit etc, so that you know what money you will have if he really does do this.

She70 Sun 06-Jan-13 13:51:52

How horribly manipulative of both your husbands! Surely its not in the best interests of the children if either of them quit, or scale back their jobs! If a women suggested doing the same under the same circumstances, as emotional blackmail, can you imagine the choice names she would probably be called!

Dillie I would do as suggested and check out where you stand if he does this. Is the mortgage in both your names? Look on the benefits website on as it has a comprehensive benefits calculator which helps you see how much you could expect to get in benefits under different circumstances. Its a really good tool.

change your h is being so manipulative too. Is it your decision to split or his? I'm in Kent... Not such a bad place to live! Joking aside can totally understand why you wouldn't want to move somewhere you don't know anybody. Saying that I am contemplating doing just that if my h forces us to sell our house. I can't afford anything decent in this area with the money I would have but if I move out of the se I could afford something very nice. I'm looking on it as the chance of a fresh start and a new chapter in my life. Not sure how feasible it really is but it's nice to daydream!

ChangeAfoot Sun 06-Jan-13 13:53:01


Silvery - thanks for that support. I do need to keep reminding myself that things aren't necessarily going to go his way.

Dillie - hug to you. I'm in a similar-ish situation. Interestingly, I spoke to a family law barrister friend-of-friend when this all kicked off last week and she mentioned things about the court wanting to see H fulfilling his commitments, and that they don't look favourably on such manipulations. (My H has been out of work for 6 months which is very unlike him, and has barely bothered to look for work. He hasn't even signed on and we have now completely run out of money.) It wasn't really relevant at the time for us to pursue that line of thought so I didn't ask her more about it, but may contact her again to ask what she thinks should he decide to - very coincidentally - have a massive change of heart re. his career and salary expectations just at the time we split. I agree with Skye that it sounds as though he is out and out blackmailing you, last ditch attempt to frighten you into not following through. He will know that you want to stay in the home and will be terrified of losing it and is playing on that. Skye do you know how best to start looking into eligibility for tax credits/benefits? I am lost in all this.

ChangeAfoot Sun 06-Jan-13 13:57:44

Ah She thanks for that link, sounds silly that I don't know these things, H has popped out with the DC to the park and I'm going to spend the rare alone time looking at things like this (and photocopying documents mwahahaha).

Don't worry, I have nothing against Kent - it was me who wanted to go there! grin ... but I realised at the last minute how much harder it would have been for me to ever get a career going, as we were going to be living in a village. H would have been commuting up to the City and by definition I would have had to stay local unless I was earning enough to justify a nanny/etc. That's a good way to look at it re. new chapter in your life - trouble with me is that we've only just moved back to London (were living abroad for 2.5 yrs) and it's where all my friends are and most definitely feels like we've just got back home, if that makes sense. I really really don't want to leave, and finding work in my old profession would be near impossible.

ChangeAfoot Sun 06-Jan-13 14:01:07

Quick rant while I'm here then will stop carpet bombing the thread smile Both H and I had bad night's sleep last night - me because I was woken a lot by DD, he because he by choice didn't go to bed until 2.45, which I heard as DD had just woken up. We then had an emotional talk until about 4am (!) and then had disturbed sleep afterwards. So - cut to this morning. I get woken up at 7.15 by DD and get up with both DC, which I do singlehandedly while he stays in bed until almost midday angry Without negotiation, etc, he just does it. This is like EVERY SINGLE DAY. And then at about 11 he emails me to say that he'd like to take the DC to the park to "give me a break". I am so sick of me doing all the bloody drudge work with them, only for him to emerge from his selfish lie-in so that he can "relieve me" and go and have fun with them. THIS IS NOT 50 50 PARENTING YOU WANKER!

<end of rant>

crazygracieuk Sun 06-Jan-13 14:34:20

My h has now said he doesn't want a divorce and he's coming round to talk later. (He's with the kids now) this is from a man who says he doesn't believe in marriage and married me for tax reasons because we were emigrating. Nice! confused [manic laughter]

crazygracieuk Sun 06-Jan-13 14:36:24

ChangeAFoot - I know what you mean. I'm now the only one who tells dc to tidy their mess, put their plates in dishwasher etc while h gets to take them to the cinema and watch The Hobbit [jealous cos I haven't seen it]

mowmi Sun 06-Jan-13 15:06:21

Hello ladies, just trying to catch up...Change your diot DH sounds a lot like mine! We have been separated but living together for 7 months now! Guess how many times he has got up in the night or in the morning even with DC? Zero! This is man who threatened going for full custody, then 50/50... It has all stopped now because he's a selfish prick who likes his freedom to come and go as he pleases too much!
DC and I returned from staying at a friends house, I spent literally all day cleaning before I went, returned to dirty toilet (really? Do you have no shame?) bacon fat all over the draining board (this is a man off sick with fat related health problems!) recycling all mixed up, jeans just dropped on the floor....ARGHHH.......!
Vent over.
Remember ladies, these men can say what the hell they like it doesn't mean it will happen...
I'm spending tonight finishing off my form e (we are going to court next month to sort finances (to hopefully get him out of the house) actually when I say we are going to court that's probably wishful thinking, I know he won't engage in the process so this will go on and on....

She70 Sun 06-Jan-13 15:17:36

Don't get me started on that whole "Disney Dad" syndrome. My ex is fast becoming an expert. My 5-yr old was so excited yesterday when he told me that Daddy had given them both Coke!! My little one is 2 ffs.

Ok I need to run something by people to get input. Will probably post elsewhere too so if you see it twice please ignore! My ex appears overnight to have had a change of heart regarding finances, the house etc etc. He is now agreeing the following :

I can stay in marital home until summer after youngest turns 18.

At this point we sell (always the intention as too big for us).

We both take out what we put in (my investment was substantially more than his). The amounts have been agreed.

We then split any further profit 50/50.

Maintenance: he will pay me half the household costs until youngest is 18. This will be regardless of what I earn in the future. At the moment I do not work. Until youngest is in school he will pay me same as he did before he left less the amount I get in child tax credit. He pays me this currently as I take care of all finances etc.

What do you all think? Do you think its reasonable? It seems so to me with pros and cons but I need some outside perspective!

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Sun 06-Jan-13 16:04:26

I would do a 5 year plan based on this - tax credits are changing for example. Ask advice from sol if poss as they will have seen all sorts of arrangements and what the pitfalls are. On the face of it, it looks promising though.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 16:25:05

She70 - that sounds like a good deal, but obviously get your solicitor to check it over before you agree to anything.

mowmi Sun 06-Jan-13 16:27:48

I agree, you need to get your sol to go through it - good start though!
Wish mine would start thinking clearly....sigh!

carpetsw33per Sun 06-Jan-13 16:37:28

I'm in the same boat. Been divorcing for a year. Seems no closer to resolution. Solicitors take FOREVER to do anything.

I am finding it hard to see how I will live in the future. I miss the family home which dh refused to leave. We have 50-50 care so he doesn't pay me any maintenance. He won't agree on a price for the house and at our voluntary financial disclosure he refused to send details of several accounts!!! Now we are in a stalemate position, it seems. It's so exhausting and so hard to see a bright future. X

She70 Sun 06-Jan-13 16:38:12

Thanks! I am keen to get this on writing as quickly as I can as he tends to change his mind daily. However this proposal did come from him after I pointed out I could move away from the South East if he pushed me into selling and into some grotty house that I hated. I don't particularly want to move but I would if it meant affording a nicer house for me and the children.

mowmi Sun 06-Jan-13 16:44:39

It is carpet... He's just burying his head in the sand, he's off sick, has been for months - it's amazing how he is well enough to date ( get to rugby meets all over the country etc but too Ill to work! Must be nice to have an wife ( who can't stand the sight of you) subsidising your life, looking after your kid... I'm really peeved today!

wiseoldowl Sun 06-Jan-13 16:46:44

just an observation from a cynical divorcee (divorced in february - no financial settlement yet!!)
just protect yourself. Do NOT trust anything your stbxh says, its all well and good he can promise to pay this that and the other but the reality is when he moves on & has bills to pay, women to spend it on etc that they dont want to know you and seem to lose all obligation.
Whatever you agree to, it MUST be in a consent order in writing from the court so that if he defaults you have comeback. Remember this is the rest of YOUR & DCs life that hangs in the balance - you can ask for more now but you can never go back and ask for more later.
sorry to be so negative but they all turn when they face the cold hard facts and divorce is never pleasant IMHO

wiseoldowl Sun 06-Jan-13 16:48:09

oh...& as for benefits - to to the website , you can input your earnings etc & get an estimate of what you can get. need to phone them & give details, is relatively easy x

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Sun 06-Jan-13 16:50:12

Well, if this is an offer he wants to make, get him to submit it to your solicitor in a letter without prejudice (ie making the offer does not commit him to anything), with help from his own if he has one. Then have it checked out, while having a long deep think - you can sometimes overlook problems at first glance, this gives time for any such problems to occur to you.

You can then progress to having a proper settlement drawn up to be approved by the Family Court.

ChangeAfoot Sun 06-Jan-13 18:58:01

mowmi - your situation sounds utterly dreadful; you have my utmost sympathies. I feel guilty sometimes complaining about H, because in some ways he knows how to switch on the 'Perfect Dad' routine. He loves them to bits and as I say is now talking about gearing down his work just so he can look after them. I wouldn't mind but I think I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of meals he's prepared for them (including breakfast) over the past six months whilst he's been out of work and therefore at home 24/7. Good luck with your Form E and let's hope your H wakes up soon and starts playing ball with it all. Does he talk to anyone about it? What about mutual friends of yours? Is anyone able to get through to him?

She - I have to say, that sounds VERY similar to what I am hoping to achieve. I'm no expert re. the longer term implications (and others have raised issues I wouldn't have thought of, as a complete novice to tax credits and the like) but on first glance I'd say WELL DONE and yes, get it in writing asap! I'm already wondering if I should start innocently mentioning something about moving to Scotland to be with my mother, should H not play ball.... wink That would put the fear of God up him! grin

carpets - you poor thing. My H is also wanting 50 50 care. Did you fight against it or were you in agreement? I am already painfully aware that if he gets that, then I'll lose the house and we'll all be uprooted. I am terrified of the prospect. Is your H now playing ball re. financial disclosure?

wiseoldowl - very apt name; I like it smile Thanks for the tips 'from the future' - keep 'em coming, I say. It's really good to be reminded of that, I find it hard because there's always a nagging voice in my head wondering if I'm being overly greedy by wanting what I want (majority residence of the DC and to stay in the marital home; primarily...)

She70 Sun 06-Jan-13 18:59:45

Yes you are all right. I need to go through this with a solicitor and see what they say. Its not as cut and dry as just the house as we have other assets and I want to make sure I don't become liable for his current and future gambling debts!

Sorry to all those with idiots of ex's. Just makes the process so much harder doesn't it. I find I get so frustrated and cross I literally feel like exploding. Not a good state to get into.

We have yet to even broach the subject of custody and visitation etc. I'm scared to even go there as that could get really nasty. I hope not. I so so want the children to have a good relationship with their daddy but I'm so scared of entrusting them to him as he is just unsafe. He drinks too much. Disregards drink limits when driving and I would be totally freaked out about how keeping them safe while in his care. I suspect I'm not going to have a leg to stand on though.

TheseJeansHaveShrunk Sun 06-Jan-13 19:20:26

She70, re your STBXH's proposal, it sounds as though he will get potentially a big windfall if you split the profit on the marital home 50/50. If it were me, I would agree to each party taking out what each had put in, and then dividing any profit thereafter in proportions equal to the original investments.

E.g. let's say you bought your house for £200k with a £100k morgage. You put in £75k and he put in £25k. Now your house is worth £400k and the mortgage is £75k. So you have £325k equity. You take out your original £75k and he takes his original £25k, leaving £225k. You then split that £225k in the ratio 3:1 (in your favour).

That would see "fair" to me.

She70 Sun 06-Jan-13 19:38:24

See thesejeans that is what I thought originally and that is where we have battled. I put in 65% of the original value when we moved in. But his argument is that by me staying in the house he is effectively going to have to rent as his income is tied up on the mortgage on our marital property. So I have 2 options, sell up now and he will agree 70/30 split or the agreement outlined before, plus he is overly generous on his maintenance payment as the CSA won't make him pay anywhere near the amount he has agreed. So in effect he pays me what the csa would make him pay plus the entire mortgage payment.

I suppose I see it that yes, he gets a windfall in a way but he is paying the mortgage, I get to stay in the home I love, the children keep their stability etc so if I lose some in monetary terms I gain in lots of other ways. Does that make sense? He says he is happy with this arrangement as he keeps a stake in the house and on the property ladder that otherwise he wouldn't have.

ChangeAfoot Mon 07-Jan-13 12:36:50

I think those are good points She. You see, in my situation I don't think my H would consider that fair at all, because that would consign him to living in a rental property for the next XX years (until youngest is 18; in our case 15 yrs) and I know he would be virulently against that.

I am having such a tough time. I think one of the DC has just erupted in chicken pox. Which means no nursery time this week. H is also refusing to answer my questions about money (I have £100 to my name) and I don't know what to do about this. Rather than eat in the house with us (he has zero domestic skills) he is choosing to eat/drink out every evening unless I cook for him which I am LOATHE to do unless it's a meal I'm making for the whole family. (In answer to your earlier qn, no I am not doing his laundry.)

How normal is any of this? What am I meant to do if he refuses to give me money? We have an online account for food shops - which reminds me I must do one now! - but other than that and the household bills which he's taking care of, I don't know how I'm ever going to go and see friends, pay for small things for the DC, even pay for legal advice unless I borrow the money!

She70 Mon 07-Jan-13 15:46:31

Oh change that all sounds horrible. When does your child benefit get paid? Have you checked out the child tax credits yet? Apparently you can claim them as soon as your separate even if you are still living at the same address. That's what I was told anyway. Worth checking. The process of claiming was incredibly fast, just one week from me sending in the form to actually getting the money in my bank account!!

Have you asked your ex if he is going to give you any money to live on? What does he say? What did the solicitor say about this?

I think my ex realises that he will have to rent for the foreseeable future. By agreeing what he has at least he is still on the property ladder which is what he wanted. I am not believing any of what he has said until he signs an agreement. So far he has been totally untrustworthy and prone to change his mind at the drop of a hat.

I've done nothing constructive today apart from housework. I really need to get started on my cv but finding it hard to do anything with a sick 2-yr old!

ChangeAfoot Mon 07-Jan-13 16:08:17

I feel like a complete idiot She70 - I have no idea about any of it. We've never applied for child benefit because we were living out of the country when the DC were born, and then I remembered hearing on the news that it was being means tested, and I just assumed we wouldn't get it. So when we got back a year ago, I didn't look into it, and whenever I've mentioned it to friends I've got the impression I wouldn't get it now confused

Also find the benefits calculator utterly incomprehensible, because although yes we are separated we live in the same household, and a lot of the questions are about "household income" or "household assets" and I find it all very confusing!

I spoke to the sol today briefly about the matrimonial rights thing, but basically need to wait until I can see her on Wednesday. I am chomping at the bit!

It's so tough, I am finding it very hard because emotionally I am still reeling from the fact it's definitely over. I can't stop crying, my poor children, I am devastated for them.

She70 Mon 07-Jan-13 16:52:18

change I know exactly how you are feeling. When I first realised my marriage was over I cried continuously for about 5 days. I couldn't eat or sleep and was barely functioning. I'm almost 2 months on and time does help but the thing that helped me the most was empowering myself with information. I went to a solicitor and got advise on h's debt.

Here is a list to help you do some constructive things tomorrow. I promise it will help.

1. Call the tax credits people. They have a. number on the web page at the end. They are incredibly helpful. Tell them your circumstances and they will advise accordingly. For what its worth I answered all those questions when my h was still living at home but I answered them as if he were not. So household income = 0. Assets = 0 etc. I was surprised at what I was entitled to.

2. Child Benefit. This has just changed but if I'm not mistaken you will be entitled to some back payments. It is crazy you were advised to not claim!!! Up until this month it was a universal benefit for everyone! Please Google the child Benefit agency and phone them.

It is only being stopped if one wage earner earns over £50k. Then the amount paid is incrementally lowered up to £60k I think it is when it stops completely. So unless your h earns over £60k you will get something.

Please don't feel bad for crying. It is a good emotion and I just explained to my children that I was feeling sad, as they do sometimes but their hugs definitely helped me feel better. They now seem to have forgotten anything about it! I did try not to cry in front of them too much but took myself off to the toilet a lot.

Right going to get the kids dinner. I'll be back shortly to see if you've seen this message.


ChangeAfoot Mon 07-Jan-13 17:27:20

Thanks so much. Spoke to Child Benefit people (I need to print off a form..) and am going to try tax credits now. Having to do it all with two grumpy toddlers hanging off my leg half the time.

He wants 50 50 parenting yet can't see him thinking about doing any of this.

She70 Mon 07-Jan-13 17:59:28

I know that feeling. Everything I do at the moment involves either one or both dc hanging off me either whinging or kicking the shit out of each other and me being in the middle!

Let me know what tax credits people say.

ChangeAfoot Mon 07-Jan-13 21:29:08

Yes, it's driving me mad, which in my emotional state is making me feel like I'm being a terrible mother!

We made cupcakes today in an effort for me to assuage my guilt, god knows what I did to them but they were UTTERLY VILE and had to be thrown in the bin. Even covered in icing the DC rejected them - a first, CAKE being rejected! Too much baking powder methinks...

Phoned tax credits people and I'm shocked to hear that I'm supposedly eligible for about £113 a week of benefits - they're sending me the forms. It all seemed/s far too easy... but then it's been decades since I had anything to do with that sort of thing and I remember having to almost cut off a limb in order to get my measly thruppence a week when I left university. wink I also need to print off the CB form and get it sent off. Gutted now that we could have been claiming that all bloody year!

Have made vague plans to get out of the house and DO STUFF tomorrow morning. We've done far too much sitting around, we're waiting for THE POX to arrive having exposed DC to it on Christmas Day - now 14 days in and other than one or two spots which have now disappeared, nothing has developed.

Sigh. Anyway. For all this, I'm bloody depressed. I've had a couple of glasses of wine and am off to bed. Knackered my back today and am in agony. Old misery-guts is glooming around somewhere in the house, time to light my ThisWorks sleep candle (smells amazing) and forget my troubles for a few hours.

She70 Tue 08-Jan-13 14:15:34

How are you today change ? Hopefully feeling a bit brighter? I was amazed st the child tax credits too. It was as easy as that and when the form comes you will be even more surprised as its loads easier than the online calculator. I kept checking the form to see if I had missed anything as it was way too straightforward!

Hope you've managed to get out of the house today. I took my 2-yr old to a play group. The first since Xmas. I was dreading it as I know I'm going to have to start telling people about the split but it actually wasn't that bad and I avoided any indepth conversations about how my Xmas had been!

I also called the wikivorce help line and asked them loads of questions about a Financial Consent Order which is what we need I think to get the finances agreed on a legal document.

Oh and called working tax credit people yo ask about being self employed. So all in all a busy productive day!

How is everyone else?

ChangeAfoot Tue 08-Jan-13 16:02:02

Thanks for checking on me She. I am struggling if I'm honest. We had an okay morning, I managed to get the DC out of the house, but they are being such hard work at the moment - non-stop fighting/whinging/crying it seems. Went to a new playgroup thingie, the kind of thing I hate at the best of times, and then burst into tears when filling in the form and it asked "do you consider yourself a lone parent?". sad Having said that we had a long walk there and back and all in all it was a good thing to do - will aim to do it every Tuesday. I really need to get more structure into our lives on the non-nursery days; I think it will really help. The thing that threw me this morning was my emailing H to tell him my mother had offered to pay for flights up to Scotland for us to see her for a week in April and him writing back saying that he didn't agree to it and it needed further discussion. Love the ego trip he's on where he thinks he can take all our money away and keep us trapped living in this house with him while he comes and goes as he pleases, eating out whenever it suits him. Wanker.

Bizarrely there is no further sign of chicken pox, we may have escaped it as it's now 15 days since exposure, so I might get to have my two days of them in nursery this week after all. I really hope so, I am desperate for a bit of time to focus on all the things I need to do, phone calls etc. Off to sol tomorrow, need to get past that so I know further where I stand.

MOSagain Tue 08-Jan-13 16:37:53

Just joining in if you don't mind. I'm very up and down and still on the fence. A week before Christmas I went to the local court, filled out all the papers and wrote the cheque out but then the office was closing so I had to go away and get the papers copied before I could issue and to date, I've not been back. I had been so certain but.....................

changeafoot, you don't need his permission as I think you now know. If you want to take them to visit your mum you can. He is just being, to quote a mumsnet favourite word, twunt!

ChangeAfoot Tue 08-Jan-13 16:41:40

MOS - sorry to hear you also (may?) find yourself in this situation. Oh how I know the 'on the fence' feeling... sadly we've been that way throughout most of our marriage confused

Thanks again for the support; I appreciate it so much. X

She70 Tue 08-Jan-13 20:09:20

Well change that is definitely something you can check with your solicitor tomorrow. I don't know for sure but I don't think he can stop you from visiting your Mum! Best get armed with the facts and then tell him. What an arse. I can imagine he is loving the power trip. Where in London are you? If you don't want to say then send me a message as it may be that we are not that far away and I'm happy to meet up. We could maybe support each other in real life too!

mos I know what you mean about being on the fence. Even though there is no going back for us when I was speaking to the wikivorce lady today I said I just wanted to get the consent agreement sorted because I didn't actually want to get a divorce! I guess I will come round to the fact of getting divorced but I'm definitely not there yet.

My knob of an ex has somehow wangled more money into his part of the settlement this evening. Its only 5k but its technically not his but I can't be bothered to argue anymore. I just want him to sign this bit now so I can start planning for the future for me and the children.

Its all so draining isn't it?! I am really struggling with the 2 little ones on my own. I am ok when the eldest is at school but when they are both home after 3pm and the bickering and fighting starts I literally want to scream. I'm just hoping that things will settle down soon as some days I think I could just walk away too!

ChangeAfoot Tue 08-Jan-13 22:40:56

I'm SE She so prob not that far from you. smile

What an evening. Went to our "final" Relate session (booked before all this happened) and I'm left feeling like a seething bag of resentment, whereas H is calm, rational, and all for an amicable split.

I can't write much now, have been out for dinner (with H, we spent most of the evening staring at opposing walls - we have become "That Couple"!!) and am shattered.

I've also found a Divorce Support Group who are having a workshop in early February and think I'm going to go. A day with psychotherapists (ex barristers I think) and 12 others going through the same thing, in central London, what's not to love?! wink

MOSagain Wed 09-Jan-13 07:55:36

Morning, sorry you had a crap evening change

she don't know anything about your situation but just wanted to comment on what you said about just wanting the consent agreement sorted and not wanting to divorce. Do you mean a Consent Order setting out the finances? If so, you can't lodge it at the Court for approval by the DJ until Decree Nisi has been pronounced and until it is sealed (approved) by the Court it is not 100% watertight. Don't want to worry you but perhaps you might want to check it/clarify that point. There are lots of family lawyers that lurk on 'legal' if you have any queries on it.

ChangeAfoot Wed 09-Jan-13 10:01:06

Morning MOS. I'm off to the sols this lunchtime... have dropped girls at nursery (no pox?!) which is a godsend. So now I have a bit of time to prepare myself...

Yes, last night was depressing. Firstly the fact that he remained so calm and civil and determined while I was just a blubbing, desperate wreck at the counsellor. I lashed out a lot at him and basically didn't behave with any decorum really, and now feel dreadful about that. We both drank at dinner, and then came home and had a slightly drunken argument about "the facts" and where we both stand. He is holding a very calm and "sensible" position and saying that to get litigious will be a disaster for the children and that we must put them first, so we MUST handle this with mediation and remain amicable. I am extremely nervous about mediation, although am prepared to try it although with the backing of a solicitor. He also told me that the reason he freaked out about Scotland was that he misread my email and thought I meant from the 9th of Jan - ie leaving today rather than in April hmm - for this he apologised.

He is absolutely adamant that from the research he has done (he has an academic/legal mind and would have been well suited to the Bar) it is unequivocally the case that children do better if residency is shared between both parents. I need to talk to the sol about this today. Collaborate gave me two links to papers which say that the Law Society disagrees, but I understand that this is the government's position and it terrifies me. He admits he has had little to do with the legwork of parenting but says he is "looking forward to learning" (said with beatific smile on face). Sigh. He is a great dad and I absolutely want him to have a massive role and consequent influence on their lives, I just don't want them to have two homes!

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 10:09:42

Hi, for anyone going through this do have a look at the useful information and links here.

TisILeclerc Wed 09-Jan-13 10:43:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

olgaga Wed 09-Jan-13 11:13:18

I would say that the best arrangements for children are to keep things as close as possible to how they were before separation, and keep disruption to a minimum.

If one of you has always been the primary carer, that should not change just because you as a couple decide to separate.

The children's education and social lives also have to be accommodated in the best way possible.

Children are not possessions or assets to be wrangled over and divided up. It is their right to maintain a relationship with both parents, but that doesn't have to mean they have to live in two homes if it doesn't suit them.

Shared residence does not mean spending half their time in one parent's home and half the time in the other's.

Children need a settled and stable home. They need routine and to know where their possessions are and where they will sleep at night. Shared residence orders can often complicate matters with children moving between the different homes in a way that is unsettling and difficult for the child. This undermines the child’s stability, to the detriment of the child.

From the discussion paper prepared by the Children in Families Committee of the Family Justice Council.

DoubleYew Wed 09-Jan-13 11:26:03

LA is supposed to still be available for domestic abuse cases. Not sure how they assess that. Have you disclosed to someone, gp maybe?

There are no changes to LA in Scotland, if that is relevant to anyone.

Agree also about 50/50. Its about taking 50% of responsibility for children, which might actually mean working to support them, not 50% of the minutes in the week with them. Having said that I know parents who take turns each week and that works welll for everyone (older children though). Dad was a sahd some of the time when they were little so it made sense.

TisILeclerc Wed 09-Jan-13 11:37:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

comingintomyown Wed 09-Jan-13 12:50:09

She70 " Its only £5k but its technically not his but I cant be bothered to argue anymore"

When you are doing your financial agreement do not allow your enthusiasm or energy to flag. This is your one shot at securing the fairest and best deal for you and your childrens future and once a deal is closed its closed. I remember well the temptation to say fuck it I cant be bothered let him do what he wants but a good friend gave me the above advice for which I am grateful.

In time you will be over this and the last thing you want is to be kicking yourself at being in a compromised financial position if you didnt need to be. That £5k could pay for a number of things in the future !!!

She70 Wed 09-Jan-13 14:45:47

mos , thanks I didn't realise that! I need to start checking my facts and if that means starting divorce proceedings I'd better get my head round it pretty sharpish. I will start digging.

Has anyone used, or know of anyone who. has used the Wikivorce website for any of this stuff, like consent agreements etc?

change hope the solicitor meeting went well. I think you should be congratulated on going for dinner with your h and him ending up not wearing it! My x sounds exactly like yours. All that "I'm so calm" bollocks whilst making me out or riling me to become, s complete crazed woman. Drives me mad so you have my sympathies.

ChangeAfoot Wed 09-Jan-13 17:26:41

So. Back from the solicitor. Wish it had left me feeling a bit more optimistic. She was great, although I had to hold back from making a judgement based on the state of their offices, which were shabby to say the least. But she seemed calm, on my side, and not inflating me into thinking things were possible that probably aren't or are at least up for grabs.

She thought he didn't have a hope in hell of getting 50 50 residency (meaning 50% of contact as well as shared residency itself). But she did think the issue of housing was more complex, made all the more so by the fact that H doesn't have a job. The frightening thing to contemplate is that he has planned to do this at a time when he isn't working (he is rarely out of work and has always been very confident - I've never known him not get a job out of an interview --I'll give him that--) because by definition he is going to find it very hard to house himself by getting another mortgage/etc whilst not working, and therefore it makes it much more likely we'll need to realise our assets. sad

One good thing is that she strongly suggested I try to get Income Support because if I'm eligible for that, she can take me on as a Legal Aid case. That would be amazing. I have just completed the 400000000 question phone interview and he said that he thought I would be eligible. I was bricking it a bit because I have a rental flat but... fingers crossed, he said he thought I should get it based on my answers.

Oh god this is all so scary, and I can't believe I'm now fully versed with benefit claiming procedure. I am struggling to find the good side in this at the moment.

Dillie Wed 09-Jan-13 17:32:54

Hi ladies, I hope you are all well. Watching this thread with interest!

My stbxh is going between the nicest guy possible to the most vindictive selfish arse! I must admit it is really starting to get to me. I am up and down like a yo-yo. I seem to alternate between this being the best thing I can do to the worst possible thing ever! I don't think I can cry any more sad

He still refuses to leave, so looks like I have no choice but to leave myself. So busy trying to find somewhere.

And as the old saying goes, it never rains but it pours. My best friend is moving to about 160 miles away. Its not too far, but far enough! Going to miss her like crazy as is my dd!

How did you all tell your dc's? I am dreading the convo sad

ChangeAfoot Wed 09-Jan-13 17:55:11

I don't know if anyone else is interested btw, but I have just signed up for Divorce Support Group, which I found on wikivorce. They run either group therapy sessions nationwide, or workshops to help support people going through this hideous process. I am in dire need of some sort of help, I feel either monumentally depressed or like a snivelling desperate wreck. Details here - the one day workshop is £65 and I am hoping it's worth it.

Dillie - sorry to hear that you're having to consider moving out. I have to say this process so far is much like our relationship in general - he has flashes of being nice and wonders why I don't immediately turn into a gushing, loved-up wife... when the other 90% of the time I'm having to walk on eggshells around him. What a bummer too about your friend - very bad timing. XX

wiseoldowl Wed 09-Jan-13 19:57:30

change - I strongly agree with Comingintomyown. It is draining and exhausting, especially when trying to do all the other household tasks/bring up DCs as well....but PLEASE do not give up on demanding all that you are entitled to. This is not being mercenary, this is the settlement for you and the DCs to live on,potentially for the rest of your time.
Also (& I was very slow to do this, but they have helped immensely), consider going to doctor for anti-depressants. I wanted to be strong & tough & get through it, but eventually had to admit that it was all more than I could handle...particularly when you factor in trying to put a brave face on for DC & parents.
Also keep posting, it is very cathartic to sound off /unload to people.... & although RL friends have helped,sometimes you find they get fed up/havent experienced the same thing so empathise but dont know what to say.

She70 Wed 09-Jan-13 21:13:59

Thank you comingintomyown you are right, I need to stay focused and make sure that I get the best possible deal for myself and the children. Its important to get it right!

change when I came out of the initial meeting I had with a solicitor I was gutted as it all sounded so pessimistic. I realise now that she was painting the worst possible picture for me but it did make me more determined to make sure that my ex didn't get away with his bullying and stand my ground more with him. He is one for twisting and taking what I say entirely out of context and then arguing that as FACT even though most of it, I didn't even say or it has been drastically twisted to sound nothing like I intended or what I meant. He used to do this whenever we argued when we were together until in the end I would get all confused about what we were actually arguing about. I am now refusing to engage in any conversation with him. I've told him I will only discuss things with him if we got to a mediator because with a 3rd person in the room he just cannot fabricate what I have or haven't said, or the tone which he says I say it in.

dillie so sorry to hear you are also having such a hard time. The conversation with my eldest child (5) was one of the hardest I've ever had in my life. My heart was breaking anyway and to then have to tell my dc that daddy was not going to live with us anymore was just awful and something I'd hoped never to have to do. I basically sat with him on my lap, giving him loads of cuddles and explained that daddy was going to live in a different house to us, that we both loved him and his sister loads, he would still see daddy, could speak to daddy on the phone etc etc and that was all. I had spoken to his school before I told him and asked their advise and they said to try and tell him as little as possible as he didn't need to know the details. He took it pretty well, thought about it for a few minutes then asked me if daddy was still going to be part of our family. I told him of course he was, that me, daddy and his sister were always going to be his family and that was never going to change. He didn't have any other questions so we then went out and did something fun and nice for him. I was advised to not tell him just as he was about to go bed or do something quiet so then he couldn't brood on it. I also did it with my best friend in the room who is incredibly close to my dc so that if I got upset she could take over from me. Luckily I was ok.

ChangeAfoot Thu 10-Jan-13 09:49:27

I think I was in the worst frame of mind yesterday in that we'd just had this counselling session so I was feeling like he was the calm, collected, rational person and I was just this wounded animal lashing out. So as I drove to see her I was feeling really insecure and crap - not ideal! The absolute key thing for us is going to be for H to get a job. Sadly it's all too in his interest not to until the divorce is finalised. If I start to seriously think he's deliberately avoiding getting a job for this reason I honestly don't know how I'll continue to live in the same hemisphere house.

She - your decision to only talk in mediation sounds like a good one. Sadly your H sounds a lot like mine in that respect, twisting everything around until you don't know where you are or what you're talking about. And did yours ever say things like "well if you don't know what you've done then I'm not telling you!" - because that's useful and grown up, isn't it? angry

comingintomyown Thu 10-Jan-13 10:30:59


I thought it might help to hear from someone who is at the tail end of what you guys are just beginning.

My xh left 3 years ago after 17 years together with our 2 DC 10 and 13 at the time. From him telling me he didnt love me to him leaving the house took just short of 3 months. It was at the end of the year so we elected to try and see out a last family Christmas together so had to keep everything a secret which was very stressful. In the event he got himself an OW and what had been a sad parting of the ways became even more heart breaking for me and changed the tone of our split.

In the 3 months of him still living at home though the scales began falling from my eyes and I took my head out of the sand and saw how I was really being treated and how awful our marriage had been. I felt a mixture of humiliation at how doormatty I had become and relief that he was leaving.

My main concern had been how would the DC be , I found it impossible to be reassured by anyone telling me they would be fine or how resilient DC are. His actual departure ended up me throwing him out in the night after finding an I love you text - all our careful plans laid to waste !! A scenario I would have predicted would have my DC on the floor but actually this along with everything else they took in their stride.

Right from the word go I did the things you read about on MN to try and be the best divorcing Mum I could. I let them know it wasnt them, they could talk about it anytime etc etc. Regarding contact xh wanted to ring up as and when and say Thursday and Friday are good for me and if it suited me too then he would have them. This actually epitomised his selfish me me me attitude. Anyway it was the first instance of me standing up to him and saying no he could do the Wednesday and every other weekend thing or see a solicitor. He agreed and called it my nasty little regime !!!

Anyway the next 6 months were so up and down. I was conflicted between devastation that he had gone, bitter and distressed that he was with an OW, terror at how I would manage, anger at how I had allowed myself to be treated and simple relief it was over.

I was a SAHM and when the DC were at school I set about doing everything I could to work through recovering as quickly as possible as I felt I had given sooo much of my life to him already and didnt want to waste yet more time grieving and being sad. Alas its not as easy as that and I quickly had to make peace with it taking time !

I saw a pschyotherapist for a few months who was totally invaluable but was expensive, I read various books on divorce a couple of which were very good and took all offers of support from friends and family and talked to them about everything. At one stage I had what was almost a conveyor belt of friends to lean on. I needed this especially in those early months when the DC went to stay with their Dad which I hated .

That actually was the hardest part in the be best divorcing Mum schedule asking them when they got home what they had done, where they had been etc and sounding all happy. Worse was a few months on when the OW and her family came into my DCs orbit and I had to listen cheerfully to all that - horrendous sad

Anyway re divorce. In our case I insisted on a Deed of Separation being in place giving me financial protection before selling our family home. We had a large house which was deemed in excess of our needs so I knew there was no way we could stay. So this Deed laid out everything which xh and I agreed between us with some input from my solicitor. After some minor hissing and spitting from us both we went 50:50 on absolutely everything so it was quite straightforward. So in effect we decided what we would do and had it turned into a legal agreement which made it all fairly stress free.

I would say though there were bits and pieces of money which I quietly fought for eg valuations on my jewellery . I made sure every last thing was accounted for when listing expenses to him. I very discreetly made sure everything I was entitled to I got without ever saying it out loud. That sounds awful I expect especially to someone who hasnt been there but I am very glad I did.

I knew logically the pain of the split would pass, that awful physical side of things - I never dreamt heartbreak could make you almost ill at times - would subside but god it was hard. So many nasty little surprises to begin with eg for me seeing OW driving past in our family car, the DC with their weekend bags waiting by the front door I could go on and on and I know you guys will have your personal ones.

The thing is time helps so much and so does being proactive in wanting to move on and be the best you can under the circumstances. The Divorce Recovery Workshop sounds a brilliant idea . I looked at it but much later in the day so decided to stick with my therapy. A dear friend has done it though and said it was good.

Anyway I can see this is far too long , apologies but reading your posts brought so much back to me and getting it down is tricky !

My top tips would be maintain dignity at all times with your Hs, this was extremely hard at various times but I am so glad I can look back without any regrets. Also this is essential in dealing with men prone to accusing you of being mad, hysterical etc as it takes the wind out of their sails.

Unless you have the misfortune to have a grade A twat of an H then try and stay amicable yes for the sake of your DC primarily but actually for you too. Bad feeling is just drama and I didnt want my XH to feel he actually mattered sufficiently for me to hate him etc.

Trust that you will get through this and in many cases including my own you will come out happier. I often read about people rediscovering themselves and thought what nonsense. It wasnt until my marriage ended I realised I had gradually seeped away over the years and needed to get back me.

Accept every single bit of support on offer and if enough isnt forthcoming then ask for it !

In the last 3 years I have left my dream home but actually am much happier in my new home , got up to date work skills and after years out of FT work have been working FT over a year , ok not a flash job at all but its a start ! I expect some would look at me and perceive me to have very much gone down in the world post divorce but to me its the opposite because I now live with integrity and an honest life rather than in a marriage where I was completely dominated and just plain stuck

The DC have flourished and in 3 years under my beady eye dont appear to be affected although I know you cant tell everything. They see XH regularly , DS quite often over the standard contact and get on well with OW and her clan as well. We have both bent over backwards to accomodate and help one another with anything thats been asked and I have put in a lot of PR and maintaining his image with the DC when needed.

All that groundwork , even at times when I wanted to email him I think you're a turd, has paid off for the DC of course but me too as I can ask him for help if I need to. I havent needed that back up in these 3 years past but you never know. I expect that sounds manipulative , I hope you understand !

Finally I wont say too much here because it might sound insensitive BUT being single is actually rather wonderful , a well kept secret. I could list a myriad of ways my life is calmer, happier ,no dramas just brilliant really. I wish I had known and understood this a long time ago but I always bought into the being a single parent is to be dreaded idea.

Think I had better stop , hope you all have a good day and remember in the early days it is one day at a time

She70 Thu 10-Jan-13 14:26:42

Wow, thank you so much for sharing all of that with us coming. I'm finding it so reassuring hearing peoples stories who have come out the otherside so to speak. Its so hard to ever imagine being "ok" again that it really helps to hear other people going through the same and ending up happy. My problem is that a lot of the time I have noone in rl who completely undrstands as I am the only one to have to go through it.

I am interested in your Deed of Separation. Did you do this through a solicitor and what is it exactly?

I am definitely trying to maintain the higher ground with my ex at the moment. There is nothing he likes more than when I get upset or angry or show any type of emotion for him to be able to say in his god damn patronizing tone... "i think you need to get some help for your emotional issues". Knob. At least I'm capable of emotions!

ChangeAfoot Thu 10-Jan-13 16:04:29

Yes thanks for sharing that cominginto - I like the name too smile I'm feeling a bit brighter today.

madgered Thu 10-Jan-13 17:15:11

changeAfoot. I'm in exactly the same situation as you. He's leaving because I'm horrible to him all the time blah blah, same old story, seeing other women, buying them gifts, 50/50 children business, living in the same house, playing happy families, cooking dinner, washing clothes, it's hell. I wish he would just f-off. but he won't because he wants the house. Now he's restricted access to funds. My lawyer is applying for a maintenance agreement.

He gets wound up by his friends " She's going to clear out the bank account and leave the country with the kids" And then I get punished.

The latest is terrible. I confided in a friend, some really personal stuff and she told a few people, next thing my husband finds out and I'm screamed at for spreading horrid stories and ruining his reputation. Awful. I felt awful because I've been working so hard to ensure that at the end of it we have a good working relationship, hence me doing cooking, washing, ironing etc for him. now it's in tatters. it's so difficult to know who your friends really are in these situations. Be so careful. I've learnt a hard lesson. X

She70 Thu 10-Jan-13 17:53:22

Oh madgered that is terrible. I must say since this has all started I really know who my real friends are.

I can totally sympathise with getting wound up by his friends. In my case its his family egging him on to make sure 'I don't get away with xyz', or 'make sure she doesn't get the house' etc etc. Our biggest argument to date came after he had spent Xmas with that toxic influence and came round to see the children, all guns blazing and telling me 'whats what'. Wanker. I wish people would butt out what they don't know anything about.

I honestly do not know how you ladies are managing to stay in the house with them. Of course I know why you are doing it but I just don't think I could have done it.

I am going to see Citizens Advise tomorrow and hoping they can put me in touch with a solicitor who isn't going to cost the earth and draw up some type of agreement regarding the finances. I'll report back here what they say.

comingintomyown Thu 10-Jan-13 18:00:58

I know where you are coming from re nobody else around you having been through it She70 , it can feel like everyone else is living the marital dream except you. I think that for me was where the books helped because they were full of peoples own experiences , I particularly like The Divorce Doctor by Francine Kaye I think ?

One of my best friends jokes with me that I have the "misfortune" to live in an area where nobody is divorced or single and even now I sometimes feel frustrated by that . To be honest , and I take no pleasure from this, the number of friends that began confiding their own privately unhappy marriages really shocked me. In the early days I longed to talk to someone who had been through it and understood even though my friends were brilliant , its how I ended up on MN originally.

Re the Deed of Separation. It is a legally binding document that we drew up to sort the division of finances and childcare arrangements pre divorce. I was advised to do this before selling our house so that I was safe before my major bargaining chip was gone. It was a priority as the house was costly to run alongside his rented house costs as well. We each sought basic legal advice and he then set out what he was prepared to offer me and we haggled between us over a few details with me consulting my solicitor over a few points but essentially the toing and froing was between us rather than racking up legal bills so it worked out faster and cheaper. Once we had agreed terms and my solicitor gave it the nod as a fair deal it was written up as the Deed and all done within 4 months.

In hindsight I thank my lucky stars I took this course of action as the solicitor I am using for the actual divorce is a disgrace to the profession and I am still not divorced. Due to our legal agreement I dont care really because everything is in place re maintenance but it will be nice when it does come through.

comingintomyown Thu 10-Jan-13 18:04:23

Xpost I hope it goes well tomorrow She70 but is there nobody who can recommend a solicitor to you ?

Did you say you live in Kent ? Any chance its near Sittingbourne ?

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Thu 10-Jan-13 19:43:00

My strategy for finding good sol (knew I would have to pay) was to look on Resolution site for nearby family law sols, and pick a woman who had graduated a couple of decades ago, as this guarantees they have a long period of experience. Their graduation date is listed.

The one I picked did Resolution process, but Ex would not go the route of collaborative law cos he'd have had to pay a sol. In the end I had to start legal procedings over settlement (see previous post of mine).

Turned out though that same sol firm did do legal aid, and were one of the sol firms often recommended by Women's Aid (or its local equiv [since had to close sad ).

Dillie Thu 10-Jan-13 22:08:48

Thanks for the post coming into.

My stbxh is still trying to get me to change my mind. His latest trick was to pack a bag, and in front of dd say well I am going. I asked if he had somewhere to stay and he replied no I will sleep in the car!

I didn't react and he said so that's it, don't you care? (Well doh) And then took his bag back upstairs!!!

Dd went upstairs and heard her ask your not staying in your car are you Daddy? He replied to her, no only joking!! angry

But after dd went to bed he started to look at places to live!

I can just about afford the house, but he won't make it easy and only agrees to pay the CSA minimum. Better than nothing, as at one point he threatened me with cutting all ties and never seeing dd again.

I can't work him out. He keeps saying he loves me and wants it to work, but he keeps pulling little stunts like this!!

I will be so glad when he is gone!

She70 Fri 11-Jan-13 12:45:42

How horrible manipulative of your ex dillie, your poor dd. Definitely the sooner he leaves the better if he is going to pull that kind of stunt!

I went to see Citizens Advise today. They didn't tell me much that I didn't already know but they did give me a list of solicitors in the area who do a Fixed Fee initial consultation so I made an apt for Monday with one that charges £50 for the first hour then after that its £180 per hour. I definitely chose the wrong career!!

I am really struggling today. I keep crying and feel so so sad. I feel like I am a huge ball of stress and everything is out of control including me. I really shouted at the children this morning over something stupid and it made my 5-year old cry which is now making me feel desperately guilty and sad that he had to go to school after being upset. I hate myself that I did that but just feel so on edge all the time. Will make a Drs apt for next week. Not sure what I want them to say or give me but I need someone else to make the judgement as I feel like I am not coping at all sad

ChangeAfoot Fri 11-Jan-13 14:58:44

Oh She so sorry to hear you're feeling low too. It's so bloody impossible hard to bravely soldier on when you want to be able to be bright and sunny for the children. Children are VERY HARD WORK at the best of times, I too have been more shouty than normal and of course they don't understand at all why mummy has suddenly changed. One thing I want to do which might help me feel better is to write a MASSIVE list of all my grievances in the relationship (there are so many of them and when I'm feeling rational I do already feel free of having to deal with his shit non-stop - it felt like a massive millstone around my neck). Are you able to think that this is the right thing, when you're feeling positive? Also wanted to ask whereabouts in Kent you are, I would definitely be up for a supportive meet-up at some point smile

I'm glad it went relatively well at the CAB. I'm supposed to be going out tonight but had a dreadful night last night, with H shouting at me for allowing one of the DC to sleep in my bed - he insists that we are joint parents and that I'm not allowed to make decisions like that without his approval first shock angry - words fail me. I am convinced that it's happening because the DC are picking up on things and can't believe that he believes that I'm not allowed to comfort my child in the way I see fit. What an utter wanker.

ChangeAfoot Fri 11-Jan-13 15:01:58

Dillie - so sorry to hear about your H too. I have to admit to having a tiny bit of empathy for stunts like that, because sometimes I feel so desperate that I tend towards that kind of behaviour blush I'm not excusing what your H did at all, and I hope I'd never stoop that low in front of my child sad

I've just started reading the Lundy Bancroft book, which was the catalyst for the "final" decision of H to want divorce - he was apoplectic to see that I'd ordered it.

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Fri 11-Jan-13 15:23:38

Ladies, don't underestimate the power of a short course of ADs to see you through.

As there seem to be a lot of manipulative abusive twunts around, may I once more say you can also find support on the Emotional Abuse thread (linked in previous post and I'm a bit lazy

comingintomyown Fri 11-Jan-13 16:31:38

It is an awful horrible time so dont berate yourselves for being a bit shouty hopefully once the rawness subsides a little it will get easier.

At this stage its a case of taking one day at a time and being really kind to yourselves. If its NickJr and pizza for the next few weeks thats ok its about survival not being a perfect parent

Your H sounds like a prat change, ironic that the book that has been the catalyst for him to divorce will likely be the catalyst for you to have the bare minimum to do with him and allow you to understand what an escape this actually is !

ChangeAfoot Sat 12-Jan-13 10:54:31

Hope you're feeling better She70.

I'm really enjoying tucking into the Bancroft book when I go to bed early in the evening. Silvery - I have lurked on that thread but for some reason feel like a fraud posting on it because I'm not sure yet that I can say my relationship was abusive. H has spent several years telling me that the opposite is true, mainly after I've exploded after some particularly bad incident. I am not a passive person which is why our relationship I think has been so "bad" - lots of people might sit back and take it (whatever "it" is)... but I'm wired/programmed differently and never could. I'm sure it's no coincidence that I had an abusive alcoholic father either.

All is okay here, there is a quiet calm at the moment. I have started keeping a diary of who is doing what with the girls each day, as well as other things. I mentioned to him last night that he may have noticed but he now needs to do his laundry and he almost seemed affronted!

She70 Mon 14-Jan-13 20:21:39

How is everyone doing?

I am much better today after having a nice weekend spent with friends.

change , you sound very much like me. I am not able to just sit back take 'it' either so my ex loves telling me to how I need to calm down, or patronise me in some way when in fact all I have done react to his taunts in a normal fashion and when I tell other people what he has said, or how he spoke to me I'm always told that I actually reacted with a lot of constraint as they would have said a lot worse!

I saw a solicitor today so that's it, ball is in motion and he is drawing up our proposal for the separation agreement. I am probably not going to file for divorce just yet. I will do but for now I want the finances sorted and to let the dust settle for a bit. The separation agreement will form the basis of our divorce settlement anyway and that will be agreed and signed in the paperwork so that when it comes to the actual divorce it will be just a formality. Lets see now if ex agrees and signs!

ChangeAfoot Tue 15-Jan-13 09:04:17

Lovely to hear from you She. Things are so up and down here, I can't bear it. H has been to get some ADs from the doctor, and having started them yesterday then sent me an email with "hugs" in it, and what seemed like quite conciliatory remorseful language. This was a few hours after sending me other emails which said I have to start using my bank card for the online food shop rather than his card which has always been used for it. Since my benefits forms haven't even all come through yet I had a major panic attack yesterday that this meant he was going to start restricting food money. We're meant to be going to see the counsellor again tonight and I think I may pull the plug on it, it's just too MENTAL in my opinion to be having all this 'touchy feely' let's-be-friends bullshit alongside these other lawyer-led exchanges.

She that's interesting re. just getting the separation agreement for now. My sol said you might as well do both at the same time (if you know there's no going back etc.) but I have to say I am feeling very overwhelmed and it might be easier to do it one chunk at a time, emotionally as much as anything else. Is your H still offering the same arrangement as you mentioned last week?

All in all, I'm feeling very overwhelmed by the process, not helped by having the DC to look after all day which means I don't seem to get the chance to ever sit down for an hour of peace/quiet in business hours and have a think about who I need to phone or whatever. I know I should probably contact my sol about some of the things he has said/suggested but my brain feels fried by it all. confused

alexrider Tue 15-Jan-13 09:30:30

Hello ladies may I join you? I'm in the process of divorce but live in France and am apart from my very close friends who sometimes I want to talk to about normal life and not the antics of my STBXH.

I've told my story on MN before, basically me and DCs live in France, H was in UK working Mon-Fri would come and visit on a weekend. Visits gradually became less and less and he claimed lack of money. Three weeks after our family holiday, he phoned me one Sunday afternoon and in a three minute phone call said, I don't want to be married to you anymore. Then turned his phone off for two weeks. In that two weeks he blocked me, my family and friends from his Facebook and declared he was in a relationship with OW. I immediately contacted a solicitor and filed for divorce. The OW had been putting messages on his FB while it said at the top "WankyBoy is married to Alex Rider" things like calling him Mr Wonderful and I really, really luffs you. I trusted him so much I thought it was just somebody with FB nonsense. It does make me think he must have told her some massive lies about our marriage or she really didn't give a stuff.

We now have Decree Nisi and are going towards Decree Absolute but he keeps changing his mind about things, sending me ranty emails etc, my response to this now is to ignore, ignore, ignore.

I realise although I was shocked and saddened at the sudden end of our marriage (17 years) once I'd got over that I was incredibly relieved, I'd fallen out of love with him years ago, he had quite serious issues with personal hygiene that he didn't address and just his attitude toward me generally was a turn off. Our oldest DC has SEN and I've been by myself for years dealing with that, H never really parented, although the DCS do adore him. However, since he left I find myself with an uncontrollable rage, it's not like me at all, and it's directed at him because of his treatment of the DCs. He has rarely visited them, when he does his day consists of time in front of a screen somewhere (iPad, DVD etc) and a sandwich from Lidl. They do stay overnight with him in a Travelodge style hotel but now he says he won't do that anymore because of the cost. He goes on about cost all the time, but the thing is I still access his credit card bills, he has literally spent in excess of £10,000 on credit cards since he left in August having a good time. He and OW go to restaurants, hotels, he has family days out with her and her DCs. I am so incredibly angry that his own DCs barely get the crumbs from the table. Although he pays maintenance at the same level as the CSA would stipulate.

I realise now he has always had a narcissistic personality, very much like a spoiled child, he has always wanted his gadgets and has left me and the DCs without money for food while he has bought a new camera and has even stolen from his employers just to get an iPad. He tries to blame me now for his debt, he doesn't know I can see his credit cards, it's shocking he is now £14,000 in debt on cards. I'm guessing the OW doesn't know yet, but I'm sure the good times will stop when the credit runs out and then where will he be?

I am so angry at him for being this great dad to the OW's kids, she even calls her youngest "our boy", they've only been together since the end of June, beginning of July as far as I can make out. He hasn't seen my own DCs this year, again claiming cost, but I know he and the other woman are going to gigs and staying in expensive hotels. I'm the one who has to deal with the questions about when is daddy coming to visit?

Sorry, this has been incredibly long, but like I say, I'm so angry with him for his neglect of our beautiful DCs. I fully anticipate that by the end of the year he will have forgotten about them. It's so sad.

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Tue 15-Jan-13 13:04:35

This anger is good especially if you can channel it into making sure you get what you are entitled to, financially. This is the thing to focus on at the moment. Don't get the absolute done if there are pensions involved, for one thing.

She70 Tue 15-Jan-13 19:33:34

change I can't imagine the turmoil you must be in. Solicitors one minute then counselling the next. Talk about 2 extremes. What are you both hoping to get out the counselling? Is it a last attempt at saving the marriage? I can understand the need to know you have tried everything to save it if you can but I guess I don't understand why do counselling whilst both of you are consulting lawyers!

Yes, I like the idea of one step at a time. The separation agreement can pave the way for the divorce later but for me I just feel as if I can get this in place then get my head around the idea of divorce. The solicitor said that the separation agreement can be turned into the consent order when we do divorce, be that in 6 months or if we wait the 2 years and then get a quick easy divorce. The proposal being put to him is the same, or very similar to what he suggested last week. I'm hoping he hasn't changed his mind but we'll see when he gets the letter from the solicitor. Depends on what 'advise' he has been given this week by his delightful family.

alex your situation sounds horrible and I feel desperately sad for you and your dc. I have no words of advise because I would feel so angry and resentful too but I think the advise from silvery is good, use the anger to good cause and make sure you get everything you are entitled to. Its the very least you can do to ensure he contributes to your dc financially even if he is absent in all other ways.

I've had a calm day today which has been lovely. I've been enquiring about free child care places for 2-year olds which it looks like I am entitled to so great news as my dd can start after Easter for 12 hours a week! I am sad to let her go at only 2.5 but she will love it and needs must. I am going to use the time when she goes to concentrate on finding a job. Until then I am going to make the most of the time I have left with her everyday and do lots of activities, groups etc. and not worry about my lack of job. Surely something will turn up!!

change , I am in Hythe near Folkestone so if you fancy a day trip to the sea then let me know! Where in London are you?

Dillie Tue 15-Jan-13 20:49:03

Evening everyone.

So sorry to hear of your situation Alex it sounds very tough sad I agree with the others, use your anger and make sure you get what you and your dc's are entitled too.

I have had my second session of counselling and hypnotherapy today. It has helped me a lot. I think for the first time in two months I am comfortable with my decision and that it is best for me and dd.

Things at home have settled down a little since stbxh latest outburst.

He sent me a letter saying while he saves up for deposit etc he wants us to live like housemates!! hmm and gave me list of what he wants. He says he doesn't mind cooking and washing his own stuff, but I don't see why I should waste water and power just to prove a point!

He cannot afford the house on his own (or so he says). I am a little sceptical as I can just about do it on part time wages with benefits etc. He earns 3x more than me, so unless he is in more debt than I know about I think he is spinning me a line.

I am a little concerned that if I move out he will default on the mortgage so put me up s* creek without a paddle!

she how does the separation agreement work?

She70 Wed 16-Jan-13 08:28:48

dillie , essentially it outlines your financial agreement, custody arrangements etc for the children, spousal maintenance for you, everything that will be in a divorce settlement without actually getting an actual divorce. The solicitor said that a lot of people who do not agree with divorce for whatever reasons draw up this agreement and then never bother getting an actual divorce.

It will also from the consent order from the court when we do get divorced but fornnow it allows me to get all the finances secured for me and the dc without having to get my head round divorce proceedings which I just don't feel up to facing at the moment.

ChangeAfoot Wed 16-Jan-13 11:23:09

Hello alex and sorry to hear about your situation too.

Well I'm feeling thoroughly miserable. We had our pointless therapy session last night and then went out for dinner. Is all so odd, we're sort of getting on okay and then it's as if we remember what's actually happening and then revert back to the "new normal". I just had a phone call from a school the girls were down to start Kindergarten at in Sept, and had to tell them that because of the divorce, they won't be able to go. H is talking about having to pull them out of their (private) nursery sad

We were meant to be having a first session with a mediator today but he's had to cancel due to problems with the venue. So we may have to wait two weeks to go. I'm all over the place, finding correspondence with the sol very slow. H is either being lovely to me or vile (from waking up at 4am to find him coming into my room, he saw that one of the DC was in bed with me and so just left the room hmm; through to telling me half an hour ago that he "isn't going to mention it in the divorce, don't worry, but you have a severe personality disorder and you need to sort it out".)

I remembered in the counselling last night that on one of our first dates, he slapped me round the face for offending him because of something I'd said. In a flash he responded last night by saying "you fucking deserved that". I told the counsellor last night that MY biggest challenge after this is over will be to work out why I didn't run for the hills then, but instead chose to spend ten years of my life with him. sad

alexrider Wed 16-Jan-13 11:53:36

Oh Change he sounds vile. I think count your blessings it was just 10 years you wasted and from now on look forward to the rest of your life. I think coming into your bedroom in the night is well out of order, can you get the solicitor to lay down boundaries in a letter to him? I have the utmost respect to everybody who has to share a house with an ex, I have to keep my correspondence limited to a couple of lines on an email because I struggle to be civil to my ex.

She70 Thu 17-Jan-13 17:33:19

He really does sound horrible change . I hope something gives for you soon as I don't see how you can continue living like this and keep your sanity.

I was wondering about the boundaries thing. At the moment my ex just walks in the house when he comes to see the children. How long can he continue to do this for? As I'm planning on staying in the marital home and we will have a 50-50 share does that mean he can just walk in whenever he likes as technically its half his house. I just feel so uncomfortable with that! Plus he goes through the cupboards eating what he likes. Again technically he is buying the food by paying maintenance but does that really mean he can just help himself?

rednailpolish Thu 17-Jan-13 17:58:03

hello.... can i join you please?
I'm am thoroughly fed up of the mental kicking i get every time i try and move my divorce along (it was my choice, no major incident, just years of unhappiness and a wake up call that made me realise there must be more to life).
Ex is really dragging his feet with it... i suspect for financial reasons (like waiting till he was in part time rather than full time employment) and i just want it to be over so we can all get on with life withut this hanging over our heads.
We have 2dc, who live with me but see him a lot... i havent the energy to write everything down tonight, but basically i'm sure his tactic is to grind me down so that i will agree to a settlement that isnt really in my best interests... for example he keep spouting that he has legal rights to have the children 50%.... that he will try and ringfence some of our assets etc etc... that he does everything possible to make my life easier and i am just an ungrateful cowbag..... bla bla....... its just mind numbing......

I'm trying to read thru here to see whats happening to you guys too... sounds like its all pretty rough xx

alexrider Thu 17-Jan-13 18:10:48

She I had to lay down boundaries with my ex, I make him do pick ups and drop offs at the door, but that basically was because every time he came in the house he stole something. I have to say it really, really annoys him and I take an enormous amount of pleasure from that. I've had comments from him about my remarkable hospitality and even last night in an email slagging me of he brought it up, so I offered if he disliked handovers on the doorstep so much then I'd happily take the DCs to a car park in town to meet him. He hasn't technically bought the food in the cupboard for him to eat by paying maintenance, that's for his DCs to feed them etc.

red stick in there, this divorce business really is wearing. Take a step back from it for a week or so and don't enter into any correspondence or discussions with him, you may feel you have a bit more energy for it later.

SpiderManMum Thu 17-Jan-13 21:14:26

Another one joint the ranks if you don't mind? Blimey, there are quite a few of us, don't know whether to feel glad of the company or very sad that so many marriages come to this sad.

My story is 'dh' walked out early last year using the MLC script and of course was horrified at the accusation that another woman may be the cause. Fast forward to last night when he admits that there is in fact another woman that he has only started recently dating hmm Clearly he believes I was born yesterday.

Divorce is going VERY slowly, my solicitor is bloody useless and I've just received a bill from her for £700 for a couple of emails, 2 phone calls and a letter. I am in the process of trying to find a good but reasonable priced alternative if such a person exists.

Ex is vile and is becoming increasingly emotionally abusive to both me and our DS and is threatening to pay us a little as he can get away with.

Everything seems so awful and just keeps getting worse by the day, I can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

SpiderManMum Thu 17-Jan-13 21:19:18

Oh and she I'm another who's ex lets himself in, makes himself at home by making himself a coffee and helping himself to contents of my cupboards because the house is still 'his' hmm

I know exactly how you feel and know that it's going to be a rocky road when I try putting a stop to it sad

ChangeAfoot Fri 18-Jan-13 10:02:25

Morning all. H about to leave for the morning thank fuck and DC are at nursery. I'm about to phone my lawyer for a catch up, and then call the benefits people to find out where the bloody hell my forms are, having requested them 10 days ago angry

rednailpolish - you have my sympathies re. him waiting to be in part-time employment. Mine has conveniently decided to do this at a time when he's unemployed. He's also saying that until we get this sorted he doesn't feel in the right "space" mentally to get a job, but also refuses to move out until we sort out access/contact/residency arrangements with our DC.

SpiderManMum - I think I've read your other thread... hello and sorry to read of what you're going through too. Are you a SAHM too (I am at the moment)? All I can think is that in a few years time I'll look back on this and think it was the best thing that could have happened, but agree right now I feel as though my family's future is being dangled over the edge of a precipice by a lunatic and it's terrifying.

Dillie Fri 18-Jan-13 14:41:30

Afternoon ladies, I hope you are all not too snowed in! Hello to the new ladies too. So sorry you are going through this crap too sad

Latest development here is that he one minute says he wants us to be like housemates and then the other he wants me to give him another 6 months to prove himself!! It is so bloody frustrating.

He refuses point blank to move even though we have a cash buyer for our house. My mum and dad said they can buy the house get a tenancy agreement and rent the house back to me and dd. This way my dd can stay in the house she has grown up in, will keep her friends and close to her school. The house will be left to me in mum and dads will and will in turn be left to her in mine. The rent will be treated like a capital payment that I will get back plus a split of the profits should I decide to sell at any time.

However, 'd'h can't seem to get it into his head that I have given him loads of chances before and I am not prepared to do it again. He said he didn't realise the previous chances were serious ones! hmm

If I can get him to agree, then he will have approx £20k to start somewhere fresh so it is not as if he will be out of pocket.

He is still adamant that he can prove he has changed and keeps pleading for me to give him a go.

Six months isn't that long I suppose, but it will feel like an eternity. Even once the six months are up, I have a horrible feeling he won't leave even then.

I know I can't force him out, but any ideas? I really don't want to move dd away from her friends. I haven't initiated divorce proceedings yet, but is this the only way I can get through to him that I don't want his manipulative ass in the house anymore?

On a completely different subject, can I get housing benefit it I rent off mum & dad? I am on part time wages so qualify for all the usual stuff.

ChangeAfoot Fri 18-Jan-13 14:57:08

Hi Dillie. It's all so bloody complicated, isn't it? I hate to say the usual, but have you got a solicitor to ask these questions of? In my case I don't think H is going to move out until we have sorted out the child contact and financial stuff - which will only be sorted when the divorce is next to finalised (I think, or so it seems).

Also, I was just talking to the benefits people and told them that H might be moving into my flat around the corner, and then I will lose the rental income I get from that. They said to me that I could 'rent' it to H and then he could get that paid in housing benefit as he isn't working and in turn pay it to me. I know it's a different situation but maybe that means you could rent off your mum and dad. Sorry this is all virgin territory for me!! blush

I've had a very peaceful day at home gathering my thoughts. Spoke to lawyer (all good and reassuring) and to the benefits people who are sending the forms out again but were reassuring me that I should definitely be eligible for income support and therefore legal aid... crossing everything possible as tightly as possible for that outcome.

Dillie Fri 18-Jan-13 15:32:26

Thanks for that change I will keep everything crossed for you too for the legal aid.

I do have a solicitor, but its just finding the time! Also I have not told dd yet as I didn't want to create any more stress than there is already, so have to time anything like that very carefully.

Hopefully the snow would have cleared enough by Monday so h is out of the house at work to enable me make some calls. I am hoping to get legal aid too, but my solicitor said that my h income may have to be taken into account as we still live in the same house. There are ways of getting around it though she said.

I must admit all this legal stuff makes my head spin!!

ChangeAfoot Fri 18-Jan-13 18:37:45

I know just what you mean about finding the time - it's driving me insane that during the day I normally have the DC hanging off me (and sometimes H hanging around too), and in the evening H is normally at home - so I can feel like I never get a minute's privacy or the chance to make an uninterrupted, private phone call in business hours. Today felt like such a luxury - time to actually think about stuff.

Tearsforfears Fri 18-Jan-13 19:56:25

Another newy here.
Have posted on Mn before, but just the basics H announced a week before Christmas he been having an affair (but this has since changed he is not having a relationship!) he left straight away, I did beg said we could go to counselling try and sort it out, but it was like talking to a stranger. He is seeing DS (15) once a week for a few hours - he has moved in with his parents and can't have him overnight as there is no room - feel this is just an excuse as know he is out all the time.
After absolutely no contact for a month thought I better go and see solicitor for advise, solicitor really good and has told me to try mediation as the cost is less, have emailed him about it but Had no response. Solicitor said to do the divorce myself as again will keep costs down, but when I do, not to apply for the decree absolute until all finances are sorted - as "if he drops dead tomorrow you will still get his pension as you are still his wife" really found this a hard statement know solicitor is telling me for best interest but he is the father of my son and found it hard to hear.

She70 Fri 18-Jan-13 21:00:47

Isn't it sad how many of us are on here and going through such crappy times. I really feel for every one of us. This really is shit and I just hope that we are all in better places soon.

I am starting to hate weekends as my ex comes to see the children. I hate the way he swans in, all sweetness and light, not a care in the world. Easy for him. No broken nights anymore, lots of lie-ins, no fighting. children every day. He told me a few weeks ago he feels lighter. Like a weight has been lifted. Nice to know we were such a burden for him. He skyped the kids tonight so I stayed out of the room. Its all done for effect... I don't think he listens to a single thing they say and constantly just says to the little one, have you got a kiss for Daddy? Over and over. Its weird. In just two months he has become so disconnected with us.

Still, I do count my blessings. I just could not live with him whilst going through this. No way. All you ladies still living together must have amazing self-control!

raenbow Fri 18-Jan-13 22:45:25

Hello all, hope you don't mind me tagging on, this sounds like my sorta thread. I separated from H in Oct. living abroad for 5 years prev. OH said he was feeling unhappy (Mid life crisis, I thought)I came back with kids set up home organised benefits as not working; had to leave job behind.(all with mutual agreement) thought maybe some space and time apart and we could get back on an even keel. He came back to UK xmas time. Then he told me last week about OW who he met on his business trip to Asia last year and is now having a 5000 mile relationship with ( apart from New Year when he went to meet herangry ) but apparently it only started ' a few weeks ago after we separated'.
Went to see solicitor last MOn and she has set ball rolling , waiting for appointment from Resolution Mediator to discuss finances. He is MR Passive Aggressive , calm and controlling, but basically a nice guy till you cross him ( i have seen him this way in business and always thought glad he's on my side).
When you said 'Change' about the roller coaster' I thought thank god it's not just me.
Yesterday was a horrible day, spent most of it crying waiting for plumber to fix heating which has packed up. Today kids off school so was a better day even though he was collecting stuff for his new House from my garage. I went to speak to a neighbour/ friend about blocking drive with the van and she said how awful , come in for coffee, so I did so I wouldn't have to watch him sever his last ties with me ( Apart from the kids) when he finished he just drove off o: I stored his stuff for 2 months and no thanks or bye! I was a bit cheesed off but thought hey he was in a rush to get there. Leave it!

I did until he rang DD tonight to say Ill be over to collect you at 8.30 to take you to mine. Now he says I am being unresaonable and he made arrangement before but the fact he told her what time and not me really pissed me off. I had the kids tonight even though it was supposed to be his 'weekend' ( the 1st as before he just wanted to have them when it suited and I told him that was not fair on me or them and he could commit to a weekend and spend more than an hour or 2 with them). Am I being unreasonable should he have confirmed the time with me bearing in mind I had them to do him ( another) favour?? I am tyring to keep it amicable but DAMN IT it's tough!! (Sorry a bit long!)

SpiderManMum Sat 19-Jan-13 00:13:51

It's so bloody unbelievably unfair isn't it. They walk out without even glancing back and we're left to pick up the pieces of a shattered family and try to 'soldier on'. Meanwhile they are indulged with regular lie ins, gym workouts, a social life after work, and a new adoring woman who thinks the sun is shining from their proverbial.

My STBXH is also so disconnected from our DS it is really uncomfortable now watching him trying to interact with him. It's almost like watching someone who doesn't have kids awkwardly trying to play but not knowing really what to do and feeling very self conscious. How can someone that you were once so close too become a stranger so quickly?

I too am struggling to find the time to get my backside into gear to change solicitor. I did make an appointment but had to cancel due to the weather and school being closed early. It is all hard work sad

She70 Sat 19-Jan-13 08:30:43

spidermanmum that is exactly it isn't it?! They walk out leaving us to pick up the carnage all the while they are living their fancy carefree life. I just have to comfort myself with the fact that they have lost the biggest thing of all and that is being an active and constant part in the dc's lives. My ex was actually affronted and had a go at me because I wasn't being enthusiastic enough and showing enough interest in his 'new life'. He was telling me how he had joined a gym... was going 3 times a week... was out drinking with his mates and landlord etc etc. When I said I couldn't actually give a flying f**k about his newly found freedom, he was saying things to me 'oh and you call yourself a nice person, you are just horrible' !! I mean what the heck was I supposed to say?! Congratulate him on being so innovative to try his hand at the family thing and then when it didn't suit just say 'yeah well, actually I don't want this after all, I'm outta here' . The mind boggles.

It does make me very sad to see him with the children though. I don't get why he is so awkward with them when before he wasn't. Its exactly like you described above - someone playing with children who doesn't have kids of their own. All self-conscious and uncomfortable. My ex doesn't ask any questions about school or swimming or football. Nothing.

I would definitely urge those that haven't got a solicitor sorted, get one and get the ball rolling. You do feel 'better' in a strange way for moving forward. I do anyway. It just made me feel as if I did have some control of things.

raenbow Sat 19-Jan-13 10:08:42

I agree about control She, on Monday after I saw my solicitor I was flying high, I had meeting with him on Weds and was v. business like and professional ( was also more informed than him , which I'm sure surprised and annoyed him as I think he thinks I am overly reliant on hiim)
Then Weds I sent him an email saying I didnt want to fight and want closure ( yuk I hate that word so shmalzy!) So he sent me a long email back saying he had really loved me ( in the past) and I was a good wife and a great mother but we just lost the way and now it was too late blah, blah blah...." That really threw me and got to me and it's been downhill all week since then.
I want to move forward but I struggle to think I will be happy again. I feel like he still has SO much control over my life. I wish he would move to Asia to be with her at the moment as then I would not feel like this every time I see him.

ChangeAfoot Sat 19-Jan-13 10:17:51

There is so much I want to say in response to each post, finding myself nodding in agreement a lot! Need to go get organised for the day; will be back later..

ChangeAfoot Sat 19-Jan-13 16:18:09

I always feel better after meetings or chats with the lawyer, shame it's so bloody expensive!

Sorry to read these stories about dads being awkward with the DC. We're still living under the same roof so I'm yet to experience any of that. All food for thought though - my problem at the moment is mainly that H wants 50 50 contact, equal residence, etc. I am fundamentally opposed to it because I want the DC (for the next few years at least) to feel as though they have one proper home. But I realise that there is a flip side to that (if I get what I want) - I will be the one without any "freedom". But as that's what I'm aiming for I don't think I'm going to be able to moan about it if/when it happens! (Not sure if that makes any sense...)

She - I'm shocked at how insensitive your H is being and his expecting you to be patting him on the back for his new life. Can't he see that you are NOT the person he should be going to for approval - just goes to show they can't quite let go of that 'role' us wifeys obviously had prior splitting. Btw, I completely agree about getting the ball rolling re. solicitor. It's just nice to feel as though someone is on your side and can give you a sense of what is possible.

We actually had a civilised chat (H and I) last night but am nervous to get my hopes up too much. On the face of it he seemed more amenable to compromise and we were actually able to discuss things like "The House" without either of us losing it. Time will tell. In the meantime we're booked in again for our first mediation chat Wednesday after next.

SpiderManMum Sat 19-Jan-13 16:51:10

Hi change,
I hope that things stay civilised for you but you are right to remain cautious about getting your hopes up. Over the past 10 months I've had many 'civilised chats' with ex about keeping a roof over our heads and providing us enough to live on however as time goes by things do change dramatically and what was once agreed means nothing unless it down in a court order.

Sorry,I'm not meaning to pee on your parade but I've heard it all from mine about how he is going to stay named on the mortgage etc etc and as soon as things hotted up with ow, he wanted out. My guess is that it could turn for you when you stand in his way of 50:50 residency split.

I think the awkwardness with the dc's comes from the fact that they only spend a fraction of the time with them in comparison to the 'old days' and in my case we are very much out of sight, out of mind so as soon as he's out that door, it like we don't exist in his world until his next visit. All very sad indeed.

raenbow I totally understand what you mean. When they are being nasty it's easy to hate them and run on adrenalin but when they do or say something kind that catches you off guard it does bring you down and all those feeling of what has been lost come flooding back. I have to keep telling myself that the husband I thought I had never really existed.

Dillie Sat 19-Jan-13 18:31:22

Hello ladies.

I am with you when they are nasty it somehow makes it easier. Today H was playing with dd in the snow and I did have a twinge of guilt about breaking them apart. I just have to remember the crap he has put me through over the last 10 years or so and the reasons why I want him out.

Even now he still thinks we have a chance and is trying to prove he can change. But every now and then his usual self reappears.

I will again ask if he agrees to mums offer with regards about the house. But if he doesn't turn I will have to play hard ball and serve him the papers.

It was something I hoped to avoid, but he has left me very little choice sad

She70 Sun 20-Jan-13 13:43:11

My ex never says anything nice at all so its easy to just keep hating him!

I was saying to a friend earlier that not once, since the day I discovered his gambling debts has my h shown one bit of compassion or empathy for what he has done to me/us. Maybe once in a heart to heart at the very beginning. But that's it. He has been vile to me. Really nasty in that respect. I find that unforgiveable actually. He seems to think what he has done, lied about etc is all ok because he was unhappy! Seems to excuse all shitty behaviour. Nothing about how he could have communicated his unhappiness and opened up. Its not like he didn't have the opportunity. We were in counseling for 12 months before I discovered the gambling debts and not once in all that time did he even hint at what was wrong. In fact he spent the entire time looking to blame me for all that was wrong In our relationship. He really had me doubting myself so much when in fact I was justified in thinking he was hiding something and that he had disconnected from the marriage!

I keep focusing on that to make me stay true to myself that I deserve better and that me and the children will be happier on our own! Its so hard though. I just can't imagine being happy again sad

wiseoldowl Mon 21-Jan-13 18:03:02

Hello girls, sorry to hear what you are all going through...i was there 18 months ago.
Just wanted to say that it is a complete rollercoaster sad. Gradually gradually you will find you have the odd day where you feel better, when you have done something to regain control and to take control of your own life.
I still have days where I cant get out of bed & I only turned to ADs 2 months ago as finally admitted things were so shit (was divorced a year ago but finances not yet resolved...he is being a complete twunt).
Please just look after yourselves & DCs. Take each day as it comes and cherish the fact that you & DCs will become closer while STBXHs fade into the distance when DCs realise who is the most important person to them.

sandiy Mon 21-Jan-13 18:52:39

Hi all I can t be arsed to name change so am probably outing myself in real life.
My soon to be stbxh decided in May that he hated his job,hated his life etc and we decided to separate.Simultaniously he gave up his job(well paying) Decided to join an agency instead.He did nt work till the end of September hardly bothered doing much really.I worked full time took children to child care plus worked a second job to keep our home.House went on the market and sold very quickly he finally motivated himself to find somewhere else to live.We were going to pay off substantial debts and both move into rental.Anyway house sale fell through and I decided to stay in the house with our three smallish children.Through help from my fab family and flipping hard work I've managed to hold it all together.Ive kept the morgage and all the debts.Iwill be paying them off for the next 15 years I had to change my job taking pay drop for a training year to cope as stbexh said he may go home and live with his mum in Wales.We are in south west.I used to work shifts.So currently I work full time go to uni one day a week and work extra when the children are at their dads.What really pisses me off is his midlife crisis is due to his TWENTY year old girl friend he's forty three and in no way youthfull Ifeel such a mug working like a dog while he was shagging her in my house while I was working overtime.Anyway I ve managed to get barely two hundred quid child support out of him since he left there's always a sob story as to why he can t pay.Im so conditioned to trying to make him happy so he does nt make an atmosphere that I always just let him off,It's hard to change 18 years of behaviour though.I really need to crack on and divorce him but I just can t find the motivation.
Line up ladies to give me a solid kick up the bum.

She70 Mon 21-Jan-13 19:36:17

sandiy my jaw is on the floor. That saysI all. Without a doubt get yourself to a solicitor and get the divorce started. Is he working now?

I'm having a tough few days. Both children really sick with flu. Eldest not been in school since Thurs. Then it snowed. Couldn't get out yesterday. Thank god for amazing friends. One delivered me emergency Calpol late last night because I ran out, both dc had temperatures of almost 40. She parked at the end of my road and hiked down to me. So grateful to her. Its at times like that you feel it being on your own as what could I do?! I couldn't bundle both children into the car, then into shop etc etc. Both were ill and it was snowing!! Then another friend bought me bread and milk this morning as both kids still sick....

So lessons learnt are : always have spare bread and milk in the freezer and more importantly always have 2 bottles of Calpol in the cupboard !

SpiderManMum Mon 21-Jan-13 20:44:30

Sorry you are having a crap few days she and hope that your DC's get well soon. It's bad enough when they are ill anyway, but when you're alone and housebound also because of this weather it makes everything seem 10 x worse.

I've got a rotten cold at the moment and feel terrible but have been stuck indoors with DS all weekend and today as school was closed. It is very easy to become depressed quite quickly. DS isn't much of an outdoor child and despite me spending half hour dressing him up like he was about to spend a day on the ski slopes, he only managed 10 mins outside making a snow pile whilst I tred to clear the path to get the bins out in the morning.

Will most certainly take your advice and get an emergency kit together from now on!

Hi sandiy it sounds as though you really do need a solicitor. I know how you feel about not having the motivation though. It's an awful process and is expensive, no wonder you've been putting it off.

SpringyReframed Mon 21-Jan-13 20:56:35

Sandiy, you have my admiration. You sound amazing.

It sounds like you should see a solicitor asap but I can thoroughly understand why you havent. It all takes up so much time as well as money. It is exhausting after a day at work to come home to what I have termed "solicitor crap" (even though my solicitor is great.) Faffing about doing all the paperwork takes forever not to mention the hassle that ensues and the anger that you can feel at times.

It must be in your best interests to get this difficult ball rolling so go for it. Its painful but it will be worth it and as everyone keeps saying to me, one day it will be done!

comingintomyown Mon 21-Jan-13 21:55:52

The sorting of money/houses/DC/divorce etc etc is the hardest part, finding yourself locked in negociation with someone who was your husband and loved one and who is now an adversary is dreadful

When its all going on in tandem with trying to find your way through each day living with feeling broken hearted at how everything has turned out its even worse

Truly though it does end and get easier with time

Being left with the DC ? Well would you want to be in their shoes ? Believe me they reap what they sow with that one

raenbow Mon 21-Jan-13 22:16:48

That's my consolation at the moment 'Coming' That he is the one distancing himself from the kids ( he has his own business) so could live anywhere , works from home. But chooses to go and live in the back of beyond 150 miles away. Not sure if there is an ulterior motive (ie; OW has got a job there) but am just waiting to find out why someone who claims to want to be an 'active' father moves an hour and a half away so he can only manage every other weekend ( unless he doesn't want all the family's disapproval) My eldest is 14 and a smart cookie and doesn't miss anything, she will see through him and he will be the one to suffer. But that makes me sad for her too, that at the moment she thinks he is a good guy and I am certain she too will discover that he only does things if it suits him.
I am really close to his parents who have been really great and supportive to me and the kids (Well after 18 years married to him they are like parents to me) and they are horrified at his behaviour and wish to move halfway across the country. He is also a 'Mid Life Crisiser ' and his new Asian girlfriend is only 30, now what would a young attractive Asian female want in a 45 yo bald businessman.... OH YES!!!!
He didn't even tell them I filed for divorce and he was living in their house till last weekend, his mum told him I told her. shock

Skyebluesapphire Mon 21-Jan-13 23:06:43

My XH was going to move from North Devon to Wales "as that is where all the work is"..... it is also where OW's family live.....

never mind that he would have definitely then only seen his 4yo DD every fourteen days, and she would spend half her weekend in a van travelling with him......

walked out with no warning, OW is still with her H, his best mate, she is 31, XH is 48... Mid Life Crisis much ??!! Followed the script to a T..

I have recently divorced, so if you need any advice/help, just ask....

alexrider Tue 22-Jan-13 07:23:48

For me it's the children that suffer, XH has only seen them 3 times since we split in July, he claims it's cost. To visit last weekend would have cost him £11 each way on Ryanair and £35 for the hotel overnight. He said he couldn't afford it but for the very same night he paid nearly £150 for him and OW to go to a gig in London and stay in a swanky hotel. He's a lying hypocrite and makes my blood boil. My youngest DC is only 8 but he has the measure of his dad already. I'm convinced that by May this year he will completely drop our DCs, I can see on FB that he is being a father to OW's DCs, playing in the snow with them etc, he never did that our with our DCs, always too tired. He takes her DCs out for days and treats to Pizza Express and Kentucky. One of his contact visits with our DCs was sitting in a car park in town watching DVDs in the car and eating supermarket sandwiches. Double standards or what. He's not badly paid, he makes more than double what I earn every month, but at the moment is spending all his money plus wracking up the credit cards on good times with the OW.

raenbow Tue 22-Jan-13 12:56:30

Alexrider I empathise with you. MY H is the same in 5 years we never had holidays together as he was building up the business and couldn't afford the time ( or money) now he went off with her to hotel to meet in 'the middle'in Europe( flights/hotels/ fancy resturants Im sure) and is going to her country at Half term ( for Valentines awww how sweet) or at least he was till I reminded him because he didn't ask when half term was, he had the kids on V day!! oops he had to change his plans there, shame!!! grin
I hate the hypocrisy if it all and TBH I hope he goes to live with her as then we will only have to see him rarely.( summer hols probably)
Mine cashed in his pension lump sum ( supposedly to 'help me and the kids find a new place/ car etc' as we had to relocate back to the UK, but it will soon be gone. I am now trying to keep his frivolous little hands off my pension so he can't fritter that away on her, By the way; anyone got experience of that??( I have a good pension 12 years Local authority pension)can I ask him not to make any claim on it, he has taken his lump sum and I expect it is all gone now as according to kids 'Dad has all this flashy new stuff in his new house' I suspect it was a cynical move to avoid having to share it in divorce although originally he said ( and I have in an email) that he planned to give me half.He has so far given me half of what he said he would. ( I invested a lot into his business over the years and all the proceeds of our house sale went into it too when we relocated so we have no other real assets!!)
Keep smilling girls, we will get there in the end, I am feeling a little better today and I am sure as each day passes it will get easier.xx

raenbow Tue 22-Jan-13 12:59:29

By the way, how are you She are the kids better and back to school? Such a depressing time of year at the best of times. Yesterday was 'Blue Monday' I am christening today 'Pink Tuesday' smilethanks

She70 Tue 22-Jan-13 20:13:55

I really feel for you alex and raen , all those in fact whose ex's have got ow and then moreorless abandon their children. Words fail me. They are shits but then you know that already!

raenbow I can't advise on the pension situation at all other than get yourself a solicitor if you don't already have one! Just read back and seen you do have one. What did she say about the Pension? I know that I am entitled to part of my ex's even though we had only been married for a short time (7 years).

Thanks for asking about the dc. It certainly has been a tough few days. My eldest went to school today but it pretty much wiped him out and he was in bed, fast asleep by 6 and my little one is still struggling. She was in bed by 6:30 so its not all bad smile . I have an evening to myself. About to make myself a cup of tea and might even treat to a biscuit. Go me..... so rock and roll!

I spoke to my solicitor yesterday and the initial letter outlining the financial agreement has been sent to ex today. From there we will draw up the separation agreement although having had a few days to think about it I want some clauses added to it if possible! For example he can't have 50/50 if he stops paying the mortgage for some reason in the future... not sure if I can add this but will speak with the solicitor when the agreement is drawn up. Also I want any debt he has to be taken out of his half of the profit after it has been split, not before! I am NOT paying for his gambling debts especially those he accrues after we have split up!

This is all so complicated. I'll be glad when I wake up and don't feel this huge weight of doom on my shoulders and in my stomach. Those that are coming out the otherside.... how long was it before you started to feel 'normal' again?

LemonDrizzled Tue 22-Jan-13 20:39:56

Good evening to you all. I am having a small low key celebration because today my Decree Nisi was pronounced in court. After 28 months apart from H I am nearly free. I am feeling very mixed about it as we were together 28 years and he isn't a bad person just a rather selfish one. It was my decision to leave him in our family home and move out. So I am grieving a bit tonight for my lovely house and my family I left behind (older DCs)
Now just a nervewracking mediation meeting with the solicitors for the consent order, and we can sign it off.
Because my H always knows more than everybody else he didn't want to use solicitors. When I got one he was indignant. Then he got the senior partner in a big divorce factory. But funnily enough he isnt satisfied, the secretary keeps going off sick and the solicitor is too slow for him! But mine is lovely and supportive and makes me laugh. Money well spent dealing with a man who is always right! Luckily he wants it over and wants to be the best behaved divorcer ever. I think he would like a medal for it.
I feel normal but just a little wobbly tonight. Time for a wine

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Tue 22-Jan-13 20:50:14

lemon great news <waves>

LemonDrizzled Tue 22-Jan-13 22:26:28

Thanks puss

Lovely glass of champagne and snow is falling outside. It's a beautiful world smile

raenbow Tue 22-Jan-13 23:13:19

Well done Lemon, having a virtual toast to you brew (I'm off wine as I drank WAY too much Saturday night for 1st time since the split and may never touch it again!!)
My H said today he doesn't want to use a solicitor ( same reason as yours I suspect) he will I'm sure. He is also trying to be Mr Reasonable as he keeps telling me, I tell him Mr Reasonable is just another way of saying Passive Aggressive!!

She glad harmony has resumed in your house (phew) it's awful when the kids ( or you) are sick make you feel even more lonely.
I do have a solicitor but only had 1 brief initial meeting (20 mins) last week and so much to do not much time to go into details, though I did mention my pension.
H coming over tomorrow to get the last few of his things. I had been storing all his half of the house in my garage until I found out about OW and told him if he didn't come and get it by the 18th it would be removed and 'recycled'. He did remove most but couldn't fit it on the van so wish me luck tomorrow could be a toughie.
The sun shone today, and despite my 'words' with H I also felt much brighter today.

Dillie Wed 23-Jan-13 19:26:50

Evening ladies. I hope you are all well smile

Congrats lemon I hope you get everything signed off. Glad to hear the kids are better she My dd has been off today with a horrible snotty chest cold.

My stbxh is ramping up the pressure to give him a yet another chance. He was literally begging for me to take him back. Pleading on his knees crawling across the floor! He could have got an Oscar for his performance. After about 20 mins of this I said to him if you respect my space then leave me alone! I crumpled into a mess after he went upstairs to sulk. He said we will continue this conversation tomorrow :s

I am not totally unsympathetic, but after 10 years of him making me feel like crap and finally waking up that he will never change or accept professional help, my patience is thin.

It has left me shaken! He has come home in a vile mood so will hide tonight!

Phoning the solicitor in the morning as home life is becoming a little too interesting!

ChangeAfoot Wed 23-Jan-13 20:03:44

Hello everyone. I've been a bit quiet these past few days - it's been another rollercoaster since I last posted.

Dillie - that sounds excruciating for you, no wonder you were shaken afterwards. I am actually in a similar situation in that H is now saying he is interested in possible reconciliation, but we too have been together 10 years and it feels like 10 years of living with his near-constant misery. He too has started to make promises to change, my head is totally fucked with it all - I have no idea what to make of it. I am tending towards thinking that it's all just too too damaged. Fucking nightmare, I am bloody dreadful at 'ending' things myself, and now for him to do a volte-face puts the ball firmly in my court. Will be back to write more soon, for now just wanted to update, but I am seriously all over the place.

She70 Fri 25-Jan-13 18:56:14

change and dillie , hope you are both OK. I can't imagine how hard it must be to have to make that decision yourself whether or not to split.

change , what do you feel in your heart? Do you think you and your husband have any chance of sorting out your problems and making a go of it? My worry would be that you decide to try and then only end up in the same place in a years time, when you could be a year down the road of healing iykwim? But if you feel in your heart that you do stand a chance of it working out then you have to give it a go or you will probably always wonder 'what if'. Another worry for me would be 'he has started to make promises to change'... Do you think he can change? Has he tried before? Are the things that don't work for you even changeable or just part of his character? I personally think that behaviours can be changed but core parts of peoples character can never really change because essentially that is the 'core' of a person.

Similar for you really dille , although it sounds like you are determined that this time it is it.

No news here of such. Ex got my solicitors letter and text back that it was 'pretty much' what we had agreed. I am intrigued by what he means 'pretty much', because it was EXACTLY as we had agreed so will wait for his response to see what he has to counter. Given my solicitor thinks he is getting off lightly and getting a good deal, I don't rate his chances much in negotiating much!

changeafoot Fri 25-Jan-13 19:38:24

Thanks She70. I feel bad for being so rabbit-in-headlights about my own situation that I'm finding it hard to see beyond my own issues to support others - hence I appreciate you taking the time to think about me.. smile

We've started to talk about having a 'controlled separation' which would involve him moving out. Other than that I imagine it means living apart, and not being a couple, but perhaps having a counselling session each week and at the end of a fixed time period making a call on whether or not there's anything to salvage. Last night he emailed his lawyer (angry) to see what he/she thought about it. Rightly or wrongly, all his bad behaviour is caused (in his eyes) by what he sees as my constant rejection of him because I don't want to have sex with him. Whereas in my mind his bad behaviour is so constant barely a day goes by where I find myself wanting to do any such thing. (It's obviously more complex than that but...) If we're honest I think we both know it's pretty unfixable, but I for one am struggling to go straight to divorce without having tried a separation first.

(Having said that I have also just realised that unless I were to petition for divorce PDQ, I won't be able to claim legal aid... sad )

I am a mess about it. On the one hand I think 'ooh, if we separated first, amicably, then maybe if we got divorced we'd get away from the animosity'; on the other hand maybe I'm just prolonging the inevitable. Whatever, we have a session with a mediator booked on Wednesday.

Sigh. Really am struggling.

DiscretionAdvised Fri 25-Jan-13 21:34:41

Hey.... Can I join you?

So been with dh for 15 years and married for five. Have three young dcs. Marriage went downhill in the birth of dc3. When she was involved in a serious accident 18m ago, it was an inevitable split. We agreed to separate in September. It's been a long long 4 months. On the face of it reasonably amicable but underneath a very tense time.

He moves out Friday. I've been looking forward to it but still sad to be surrounded by boxes. I am staying in the house for a couple of years but have to take in two lodgers to cover the mortgage and will eventually have to sell to pay him equity owed. I work full time and feel terrified of the future.

ladymuckbeth Fri 25-Jan-13 21:46:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DiscretionAdvised Fri 25-Jan-13 22:02:53

That's it really sad to end up here. We've always got on well but the passion went. I just stopped loving him in the right way. Turned forty and realised I wanted morenformthe next forty years. He's not a bastard or anything and he's a good dad. The feeling is mutual, he's also unhappy. Here's to the future!

She70 Mon 28-Jan-13 19:56:46

Hi all, Just checking in to see how things are with you all?

discretion it sounds like you have an amicable situation on your hands. You are very lucky, for want of a better word! Seems an amicable divorce is not possible for so many people. Has he moved out yet or is that this Friday?

change I think a separation is good to do if its possible. You can see that way how you both feel without going the whole way and getting divorce. You may find that you miss each other terribly and want to try to work things out. Good luck for the mediation. I hope its is productive for you.

I've had a weekend of stress and trauma. I wasn't 100% happy with the separation agreement and wanted a clause added to safeguard me if the house gets sold in the next x number of years. Ex went MAD. He was truly vile. Literally using horrible bullying tactics to try and get me to retract etc etc. Amazingly (for me) I managed to stay very very calm and just kept repeating that I would not be bullied into doing what he wanted, I had mine and the childrens best interests at heart, and forgive me for not giving a flying fuck about where he was supposed to live! He put us in the situation with his gambling (which incidentally he is trying to force onto me by getting his gambling debts written into our separation agreement as 'marital liabilities' so I have to pay half! You couldn't make it up). He is also refusing to get any legal advise. He claims my solicitor is only telling me what I want to hear and that he (my ex) knows the law better than anyone else and I am talking bollocks!

Sigh..... it was hard going. But I spoke to my solicitor this morning who agreed that the proposal I came up with was perfectly fair, any court/judge/solicitor would agree so my ex was being a twat for not jumping at it. So with this in mind, I composed a calm, business-like email with the proposal in it also detailing the benefits to him if he agreed. Guess what?? He AGREED to it, with no negotiation at all. Stunned doesn't come close to how I felt when I got his reply. After the fuss he made on Saturday I expected to have to fight for so much longer and harder but he just accepted it. I am guessing that he did a bit of research after he left on Sat and realised that in fact I wasn't talking bollocks but was talking legal fact and he could end up losing a hell of a lot more if he decided to fight.

So looks like I may have a better agreement and one that means I can sell our home and buy something for me and the children and be mortgage-free which is what I was trying to achieve. Fingers crossed!

changeafoot Wed 30-Jan-13 13:31:40

She - that sounds as though it was a slog but potentially worth it! Also sounds like he was advised that it WAS fair - that he should sign it, and forget the histrionics.

All okay here (sort of). We are pretty decided on separation, if not divorce. It's starting to feel overwhelmingly sad, even if it is the right decision. We went to the counselling again last night - I don't think it's helping and we'll probably stop it now - and both of us were pretty glum afterwards. I then woke up this morning to find that he'd packed up and gone away for a couple of days, before we all woke up. He sent me a few very amicable, reasonable texts about what he'd done and why, including details as to when he'd be back (Friday or Sat morning) and that I should do the same next week if I want the space. Not sure I do or need it, but will see how I feel. He has also made some reassuring noises about wanting everything to be fair, that it's important that we both feel happy and as though we haven't been dicked over, etc etc. It's all early days however, not counting my chickens yet.

I have the Divorce Support Group event on Saturday, so I'm looking forward to that. Well, as much as you can be to something of that nature hmm Also the DC are in nursery today and Friday so at least I'll have a bit of time and space to myself, something which has been very lacking while we're all under the same roof....

Hope everyone else is doing okay...

She70 Wed 30-Jan-13 20:50:22

Yes change it was tough going but hopefully the agreement will get signed and we can move onwards. I've started to look at houses I potentially could afford. Sometimes I can even do it without crying!

Not sure if it helps anyone but I spoke to my building society this morning and it is possible to get a mortgage using your maintenance payment, your tax credits and your child benefit as income! Apparently you total the 3, and then take 60% of that amount to give your yearly income that they will give a mortgage based on. I am hoping not to need a mortgage but its good to know that if I need a small amount, then potentially I could top it up. This is in the event that I don't have a job of course, which I am hoping against hope that I will have!

It is all so heartbreakingly sad. I am now 2 months down the road since my husband left and I can honestly say that sometimes the sadness literally takes my breath. The children keep you going of course and I've found it helps immensely to have a practical thing to sort out, be it finances, sorting my CV, finding out about mortgages etc. It just gives me something else to focus on and before I know it another day has passed, its time for bed and I wake up knowing that I'm another day closer to feeling ok. Its no way to live but as they say, this will pass !

I'm also doing a dressmaking course evening course (my mum babysits) and I've found this is so therapeutic. I get to learn something useful and socialise with people who don't know me from Adam so I am there in my own right - not poor old xxxx, whose marriage has just broken up! Every little thing helps!

nosferatu Wed 30-Jan-13 21:13:13

hi club! Salad : I can not believe your story is so similar to mine! 9 years of no intimacy has managed to erode my marriage too, and I am coming to terms that divorce will be the only way out. We bought a house of our dreams 2 years ago ( what were we thinking...) and it is causing more problems then anything, letting go of the house. I have no idea what will the court say, but it is looking as it is going to have to be sold. I have been unhappy far too long and although I love my husband and we live like brother and sister total breakdown of intimacy makes it impossible to continue. it is all very sad but I am 35 and have to stop being scared of the future. I think if I wasn't totally financially dependent I would have perhaps acted sooner. I am jobhunting at the mo which is not easy with 2 kids and a career gap.
My biggest fear is a reaction of our 9 year old girl. I also have to be careful not to get trapped into a relationship sooner then needed as I am desperate for love attention and sex. But i will worry about it when i am divorced- as I said it is my girls I worry the most.

nosferatu Wed 30-Jan-13 21:14:52

just to add I am going to CAB to get some legal advice, and my husband has been to the solicitor- he wants me to go with him and her to sort all our papers , he wants it all amicably. But I haven't promised anything yet and i want to see what my rights are independently.

nosferatu Wed 30-Jan-13 21:17:27

She 70, that is good news about the mortgage. First time buyers included? I have no job so I am hugely sceptical about the whole thing, but worth checking out

She70 Wed 30-Jan-13 21:36:47

nosferatu I am not sure if its first time buyers as well. I think it is as that was an option on the calculator. But if you have a property already, even in joint names you won't be considered a first time buyer anyway.

It is so incredibly hard. I am still in our marital home atm, which was our 'forever home'. I can barely believe I am going to have to sell it. I really love this house! I've been through such a wide range of emotions, its a wonder I have not gone mad. Having to tell our 5-yr old we have to move is going to be excruciating. I cannot even begin to imagine how the conversation is going to go but I will probably seek advise from somewhere before I do.

Before I told him that his Daddy was going to move out I spoke to his school about how they recommended handling it. Their advise was great and I followed it to the letter. They have since been really great at communicating concerns etc with him which is really helpful. It definitely helped that I involved and included them in what was happening. So if you haven't already it might be worth talking to them.

My marriage was also emotionally and physically dead for years and years. As it turned out this was because my ex had a gambling addiction, as well as a drink problem which he was hiding. No wonder he had become so detached, he was hiding a lot of secrets! I think I am craving love, intimacy and emotional attachment as well but the thought of ever getting involved with another man at the moment is just inconceivable! No thank you!

nosferatu Wed 30-Jan-13 22:19:54

SHE70 I am totally unprepared to handle the kids and their emotions, an also to come to terms with the dream home thing. My rational mind is saying " get rid of it sooner rather then later" and it is just 'bricks". But of course we do get so attached with our homes.
I have been depressed for a while and I am staying in bed far too much and drinking more wine then I should ( DH is also threatening), as I have been unemployed for a long time and totally dependent. My family is in another country too. I need to get myself employed before I do anything. Getting ready in the morning and giving my life some meaning will help me be more stable going through this hell. I a doing an OU degree but it is not enough.
I am not having much success, sending 50 cvs a month on average.

nosferatu Wed 30-Jan-13 22:21:31

also, one this is all done and dusted for you you will find your libido again and learn to regain trust in men. They are not all assholes and there is a sex life somewhere waiting for us!
We just need to be careful not to be too influenced by our crap marriages.

changeafoot Wed 30-Jan-13 22:25:23

It is so incredibly hard, isn't it? God, letting go of the 'dream house' - I'm clinging on to that particular aspect for dear life - wonder if ours will have to be sold too? In a way I wonder if it might be for the best, it's a lot of work to maintain and on lots of different levels - nightmare to keep tidy... was wondering tonight if once I've gone back to work and then have to do all the bath/bedtime stuff, will I just be falling knackered into a chair surrounded by detritus? She -

I've had a truly shit day, dreadful PMT making me feel deranged, plus waking up to find that H had gone away for 3 days because he is stressed - literally, left in the middle of the night. And we're half-way through potty-training twins here - oh yes, it's a laugh a bloody minute.

She - shuddering to think of all these difficult conversations ahead. What was the school's recommendation re. telling your 5yr old about moving out?

nosferatu - sorry to hear of your troubles too. I think you're right to seek independent advice first.

nosferatu Wed 30-Jan-13 22:38:30

changeafoot I am thinking the same. This house is huge and we have an extra lounge we are not using. it is beautiful though and everything we ever wanted. But there is no way I can afford the bills in 4 bedroom plus property and no job. It has enabled me to finally get an au pair and have childcare covered, but it will be impossible to hold on to. rationally I should take 50/50, and get a smaller house and a mortgage which will not cripple me, and sell this. If I had the money I would gladly leave my husband here - he worked hard for it and he loves it, plus his mums money went into it as well ( I do not hate him at all) . This paradox is even worse in that respect. It will most likely have to go, but maybe MR LAW has different ideas, i don't know.

nosferatu Wed 30-Jan-13 22:39:29

I am sorry you are tired and potty training twins is a good idea of hell. I hope you get your energy back soon (hug)

nosferatu Thu 31-Jan-13 09:12:47

I am curious as to what do you have as the official reason for your divorce?
Me and my DH just don't get on, but there is no adultery, abandonement , etc.

changeafoot Thu 31-Jan-13 09:19:34

smile Well neither of us has issued a petition yet - have to admit that I'm dreading it. I think I want to be the one to do it, although how we decide that I have no idea. We'll have to do unreasonable behaviour...

She70 Thu 31-Jan-13 10:12:33

Our house is big too. 5-bedrooms with really large sized rooms and a massive dining room that I never even go in to. Way too big for me and children. That said I do love it and I think selling it may just about kill me but there are benefits which I keep reminding myself of. Namely, no mortgage, or very little for me. My ex frees up his salary so he can get a mortgage, get something for himself a little bigger and be able to have the children for overnight stays. I am no longer financially tied to the man whose gambling addiction is totally unpredictable. Plus if I buy something smaller I don't have the perpetual on-going maintenance of such a large house which currently I have no idea how I am going to manage on my own!

Jeez, its bloody bloody awful though. Whichever way you look at it. I've got an estate agent coming this morning to value the house and I am steeling myself to not cry the entire way through it!

nostferatu if you wait for 2 years, just separated, before filing for divorce then you don't have to cite any reasons. Its only if you divorce within the 2 years that you have to give a reason. My solicitor said that you can basically twist anything to be 'unreasonable behaviour' if you wanted. Even things like - 'he likes and wants to watch sport all weekend. I don't'. Not sure if its really that simple but he seemed to think it was!

change , the school advised me to tell my ds as little as possible. He didn't need to hear the details about how mummy and daddy don't love each other anymore, or daddy is a gambling and drunk shithead. As tempting as it is. So I sat my ds down, gave him loads of cuddles, told him how much we loved him but explained that Daddy was going to live somewhere else and was going to be closer to where he worked. That was it. He totally accepted it. He did ask me if daddy was still going to be part of our family which totally broke my heart so I just replied that of course he was, that we were always going to be a family, me, daddy and him and his sister. Loads of reassurance that he could speak to his Daddy whenever he wanted, which I have followed through with and just trying to make him feel as secure as I could. As everyone keeps saying if you make it normal then to them it will be normal so that is what I've tried to do.

I am really looking forward to hearing about your course at the weekend. I looked it up but its such a long way for me to go. Will keep it in mind if there is one more local to me.

TheSilveryTinsellyPussycat Thu 31-Jan-13 17:19:28

She70 your sol is right. The courts understand that unreasonable behaviour is the way to go if you want/need a divorce asap, and are not in the business of keeping people married against their will.

Dillie Thu 31-Jan-13 19:12:19

Hey ladies smile things here are still pretty much the same.

He is still adamant he is not moving out. And determined to give it 6 months until I " get the love back"

However, I am in a bit of a quandary about the house. I love this house and dd is happy here. All her friends from school are literally on our doorstep, so I think she may find a move hard. I have found a couple of places to look at that are not that far away, but I really want to avoid too much upheaval as much as possible.

Sometimes I think a fresh start is good, but then I think perhaps I should fight for the house.

Mum and dad have offered to buy the house as my granddad died last year and they would like to put the money to good use. So effectively we have a cash buyer and I would pay them rent. We would have a tenancy agreement and the house would be left in their will to me and dd should anything happen. When I come to sell, I would get a share of the profits and capital.

However stbxh refuses point blank as he says that the maintenance he will pay will be to pay part of the rent to a house he has no right to the capital of, and why should I benefit when he can't. When I pointed out that it doesn't matter if it is this house or another, he will still be paying maintenance.

He then said he will refuse to pay anything!!

One thing that really gets my gander is that if we sell this house to dp's he would end up with more in his back pocket as we would not have to pay agent fees!!

I have booked a solicitors appointment, but it's not for another fortnight!!

All this is seriously giving me a headache, and at times I just want to give in sad

ladymuckbeth Thu 31-Jan-13 21:14:54

Dillie that sounds exhausting. And you sound like another person to add to our list of wanting to hang onto the family home if possible. I'm trying really hard to think about alternatives, but keep thinking of madcap schemes that would keep us here without it being bonkers.

Your STBXH sounds like he's saying whatever comes into his head to try to avoid the inevitable, or to try to get you to change your mind. Mine loves to tell me that if I start divorce proceedings, we'll "lose everything and end up with nothing". Way to make me feel good about it! (Bearing in mind this was all HIS farking idea!)

Had a hideous day yesterday, culminating in it taking 2 hours for the children to go to sleep after I put them down in their room. TWO HOURS! Tonight they went straight down, angels, and I'm feeling quietly relaxed and okay about things. Helped marginally by 2 glasses of Oyster Bay wink

changeafoot Fri 01-Feb-13 23:03:27

Hello all.

Have been trying to write a post on here for a while, but for some reason I find it really hard to write about all of this - does anyone else find similar? It's as though there's too much to say, and I worry all the detail is mind-numbingly boring to anyone but me.

H is away for a couple of days, first time we've had the house to 'ourselves' since all this happened. It's been GREAT, although a bit tough on occasion with the DC. They've asked after him a few times but nothing major - makes me realise that if/when he moves out, it probably won't be as hard as I imagine.

On the other hand, he left me on Wednesday with a mysterious text which has had me worrying all week. It said "DO NOT petition for divorce while I am away, I promise I won't either. If you do it will start a chain of events which will see us lose everything. Trust me on this." FFS. How to scare me...

On a whim I phoned the Wikivorce helpline (She was it you who mentioned this?) and spent an hour chatting to the bloke who set it up, no less, who really put my mind at ease. What a great service that is, can't believe it - he is a trained mediator but has been through divorce (what prompted him to set it up) and obviously is well versed in it all. As he said, he can't give official legal advice but I can't believe he sat and listened to my drivel and made me feel SO much better afterwards. Well recommended.

Had better get to bed, have the workshop tomorrow. Will report back. I am starting to feel as though this is definitely going to happen. It is scary, but I must keep talking to people who make me feel better. It's no coincidence I think that H scares the shit out of me about our "prospects", and then has a massive go at me if I dare to be paranoid about what he's up to.

leadinglady Sat 02-Feb-13 00:57:04

Change, good luck for tomorrow. I am 2 weeks in to separation but we are still living together until i can find somewhere else to live. I wanted to end the relationship before Christmas but didn't want to ruin that time of year, so decided need to start the new year with a fresh start.

I too get moments of excitement, I've decorated and furnished my new house, just the way i want it (albeit in my head. )

NOTHANKYOU (not shouting, am new to this and can't get the 'bold' and 'underline' to work.) I totally understand about finding 'your old self'. and preparing for singledom. I too started getting in touch with old friends that i have not seen for a million years, some of them have separated / divorced since i last saw them.

My 2 mayor problems are how to tell DCs and finding somewhere to live. I don't want to stay in the family home mainly because i hate the house and area - always have never wanted to move here in the first place but DP made me feel guilty about having kids so this was my compromise and sadly the beginning of the end of the relationship and one of the reasons for losing touch with friends. I feel really ashamed to invite friends to the house and so stopped seeing friends. sometimes can't believe I sold my lovely one bed Victorian conversion flat to live in this mess of a house in a neighbourhood that I hate.

sorry didn't mean to rant. I have a separate thread where i'm being sensible about the separation but have enjoyed this little rant.

And good luck for tomorrow. If you are resolved to end the relationship be strong and stick to your guns.

I have found this site surprising supportive so do come back if you need support. would send you a glass of wine for courage but don't know how. :-)

leadinglady Sat 02-Feb-13 01:29:14

Sorry Change, I posted on the wrong threat. was trying to send this message to crapartist who is ending a relationship tomorrow.

I am sure i'll get the hang of this site soon enough..

She70 Sat 02-Feb-13 07:45:53

change good luck today with the course. Am looking forward to hearing the details.

I found that by writing all the crap down that is in my head it has actually helped clarify some things. You could write it on here, its always helpful to get others input or you could start a blog. You can keep it anonymous and you don't need to tell anyone that you are writing it if you don't want to. I started one in December and I really enjoy writing it. I started off by only telling one or two people about it but I've expanded it a little bit now but its still only about 5 people who read it. Primarily its a place for me to rant and clear my head.

I can send you the link if you like so you can see what I've written.

Dillie Sat 02-Feb-13 09:07:15

Morning ladies.

Just wanted too say best of luck for today change Will be thinking of you.

I have 3 house viewings today that are fairly local. I am hoping once I have seen these, then it will clear my head on what to do.

All this would be so much easier if stbxh actually agrees to separation!

leadinglady Sat 02-Feb-13 11:33:58

I must learn not to post late at night until I can navigate this site properly.

Nosferatu 9 years without intimacy and you are only 35 wow! that's most of your promiscuous yrs gone!. it is amazing how our the lack of intimacy can affect everything. I have posted that its been 5 years for me, that was because i was embarrassed to admit that its actually been nearer 10 . but 5 yrs ago i was in the bathroom and asked DP to get me a towel and he passed me the towel by poking his hand through the door, he couldn't bear to see me naked.

Change; Good luck today, looking forward to reading the details.
I agree that writing this down here does clear my head. I have no one in rl that i can discuss this thing with it really does help. I could not believe how similar my situation is with so many on this site.

Have a great Saturday everyone

She70 Sun 03-Feb-13 19:12:52

How was the course change ? I hope you found it useful?

dillie good for you viewing some houses. I'm planning to start next week. Got 2 more estate agents coming to value the house tmrw.

Hi leadinglady welcome to the thread! I'm finding it really helpful to be amongst people who know what I'm going through.

changeafoot Sun 03-Feb-13 22:24:39

Am in a complete state if I'm honest She. Dreadful weekend at home, including him calling the police because of my "abuse" (ie. having an argument where I slightly raised my voice). It's all gone totally tits up.

The course would have been good had he not notified me half-way through that the police were there. The man wants 50 50 residency and yet I came home at 5pm to find the children in their pyjamas, one of them soaked in urine, the house a bomb-site, and him preparing toast and jam for their dinner. FFS.

I am in absolute pieces. He has told me repeatedly that if we petition for divorce now we will certainly lose "almost everything". I am so so scared. I am worried that there is some issue with his company (which he has recently dissolved) which impacts on everything, although he refuses to tell me what he's talking about.

comingintomyown Mon 04-Feb-13 08:12:29

Sorry you are having such an awful time change

I just wanted to give a positive spin on moving house

I too lived in a beautiful dream home that had to be sold. It went on the market a year after we split and I was very emotional about it, to the point where I insisted the estate agent conducted all the viewings as I couldnt face it

The actual moving day was truly awful with DS really upset and XH behaving like an utter prick and when I closed the front door with my 2 DCs beside me I thought I would lose control

As we drove away though I felt this soaring happiness that somehow I was like a snake shedding its unhappy skin and in those few minutes it took to get to our new house I went from devastated to triumphant. Very odd although you will all be familiar with the rollercoaster these things can be !

Anyway I can honestly say I never think about our old house really and am glad to be free of the responsibility it placed on me. Yes the process eg packing everything up and physically moving is demanding but you can get through it like everything else

changeafoot Mon 04-Feb-13 08:26:00

Thank you. I'm sitting in the kitchen in tears, waiting to get to 9am so I can phone my lawyer. I feel like my world is collapsing. It's this constant fear that we are going to lose everything which he keeps insisting on, and of course the paranoia it has placed in me that there's something I don't know about which is going to unravel once this divorce gets going.

My mum said last night she'd fly down from Scotland and drive us all up there with her if we needed to. Am going to see what my lawyer says - barrister friend last night said that if we moved somewhere temporary, we could maybe get an occupation order going to get him out of the house, but that it would take 2-3 months to get a court date. Not sure I want to move us all so far away from here for that length of time - I get on alright with my mum but it means we'd be away from all other support networks including playmates for the girls and I really do want them to have as much social interaction as possible at the moment. Sigh.

comingintomyown Mon 04-Feb-13 09:08:30

Its an awful, gut wrenching time change but it will pass even though it feels like forever when you are in the midst of it all. I hope your lawyer has help set your mind at rest and all this secrecy is just sort of game playing by your husband.

changeafoot Mon 04-Feb-13 09:09:21

She's in court till this afternoon - damn!!!

Dillie Mon 04-Feb-13 16:49:57

Hey everyone. Change I hope your OK now and everything has settled down.

I need some honest advice. My mum and dad offered to buy the house with my granddads inheritance. My stbxh refused point blank, so I started to look elsewhere. I did find somewhere on Saturday so trying to book a second viewing.

However, now I got a text from him this morning saying he wants to discuss it!! It is progress, but he changes his mind more often than he changes his socks at the mo. Only last night he was threatening to kill himself if I left!!

I got myself so geared up to move, but now I don't know what to do!!

So honestly should I push for a sale on the open market or take parents offer?

What ever house I get they will buy and I will rent back off them. Its just stability for dd that I am worried about. When we moved to the current house, she didn't cope very well at all!

I was so set on what to do, but now my head is Swiss cheese again!!

comingintomyown Mon 04-Feb-13 18:39:43

It would be easier and cheaper to stay put provided you like the house and dont feel you would benefit from a fresh start ?

I am not clear on why your xh has any say or influence in this or is it just foot stamping ?

Also I should have said in my post we moved in almost 2 years ago and love it, I am slumped on the sofa with DS waiting for a curry to arrive life is good...hang in there guys smile

She70 Mon 04-Feb-13 19:09:22

dillie the problem I guess is if your parents buy the house (from you and dh presumably?), then how will you make him leave? Will he not just still se it as his home whereas if you sell up and your parents buy somewhere he is not connected with he won't even have a key. Is this right or have I misunderstood? In which case I'd probably go for the 2nd option and buy somewhere he has no standing. How old is your dd? I keep being told how resilient children are and they will cope with a move providing you are there and making sure they feel loved and secure.

Dillie Mon 04-Feb-13 20:56:32

she that is my worry totally.

I guess the only thing that is keeping here is dd and my friends (neighbours). A lot of dd's school friends are on the doorstep. The area is lovely.

Parents will be the owner of the house as I am renting it off them so he will have no right to it. There will be a provision in their will just in case.

As I am writing this he has just told me that we can sell it providing he gets all the equity on the assumption that I will make the loss up in x years time!

He wants the equity so he can clear his debts get somewhere decent and be able to give me maintenance!

If I move out, he has said that if I force him into a financial black hole, he will drag me down with him. The worst of it is, I believe him!

Manipulative little twunt.

Sorry to go on! Thanks guys.

changeafoot Tue 05-Feb-13 13:04:49

Dillie - he does sound like a nightmare... another one to join the list!

I had a dreadful day yesterday; honestly feeling as though my life has become a joke. He has told me that he's now petitioned for divorce so I have that to look forward to. Along with the fact that he is telling me we will lose everything in this divorce. Am terrified.

Spoke to my lawyer who had a real go at me for having lost my temper with him and giving him cause to call the police, even though he has massively exaggerated what happened. She thinks he is trying to get me removed from the house so he can stay with the children. Although I have received an email from him this morning saying that I can take the DC to stay with my mother in Scotland for a few weeks. Not sure what I think about that, but I don't think I want to be so far away from all other support. Also v nervous about taking the girls out of nursery for a few weeks - he'll then be able to use that to justify them being taken out permanently.

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