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So I've finally got the pension valuations and he's crying on the phone(216 Posts)
Discovered STBXH's affair last new year .. Put him out and contacted a lawyer .. Got my own pension valuations by April .. Finally got his through last week
Our house was sold in August and DD and I have been living with my mum in a tiny house for the last 4 months .. I am desperate to get my own place
So the finances are being split 50/50 and he has £16k that he owes me off of his half of the house equity as his pension is worth much more than mine. And he was crying on the phone saying that if he fives me the £16k it will mean he won't be able to buy a house in as good an area for our DD7.. My mum thinks it is just emotional blackmail
He said that I earn more than him but he has more potential for promotion and is 4 years younger and so could take a mortgage over a longer period
Any views on this? He always makes me feel as though I am being unreasonable
Who has resident custody?
What does your solicitor say?
I think he's left it a little bit late to worry about this, he should have thought about his DD (as well as you) when he started his affair.
he is crying because he doesn't want to give you money that you are entitled to ?
Are you are listening to this, because ?
£16k won't make any bloody difference to where he can buy a house, he's using emotional blackmail, your mum is right.
I am the resident parent i have DD 4 days and he has her 3
My solicitor says I should get the money
He cares more about money than his child.
Then tell him to stop snivelling, it makes his sound like a pathetic little worm
Just cut off any conversations like this with "you will be hearing from my solicitor" and put the phone down
take the money and dont think of him, cos you can bet your life he wasnt considering where you would live when he started an affair
It solicitor and m are right as are u. His mistake, for every reason u mention. He will earn this back quick enough u probs wouldn't , just gonna have to make an effort isn't he....
Sorry my dear.
I say get the full amount you are owed. He could marry someone else, who won't care as much as you do about your dd's best interests and will quite happily benefit from the money he rightfully owes you!
Sod him being upset, he should have thought of that before he shagged someone else.
You can only rely on yourself to do right by your child - he may or may not. Let him rent in a nice area if he can't afford to buy, or get a smaller place. He's not your problem now. Look after yourself because he won't
Like your mum, I reckon he's trying it on.
Tell him to try crying in court and see whether the judge is moved to say he doesn't have to pay up.
You should get exactly what you're entitled to, the tears are emotional blackmail.
^^ All good advice. I especially like the 'try crying in court'.
This is one of those
irritating occasions where mum knows best.
Take no notice of his crocodile tears and rejoice that his chickens are coming home to roost.
Given that you have a dd, is there any reason for the 50/50 split rather than 60/40 or similar?
izzy I was happy just to go 50/50 to avoid fuss
Take the money. He could rent. Wah wah wah.
He has already shown you that he is a lying piece of shit by having an affair behind your back.
He is still a lying piece of shit and you need to take the money you are entitled to. Do you think that suddenly he is an honest person?
Tell him he should have though it through before cheating on his family. That's all there is to it - he's trying to cheat you AGAIN! Don't allow it!
Couldn't he just agree to give you £16k from his pension by pension sharing order instead of the cash?
Take the money.
Why do people think men's tears are so meaningful?
I'd take it. And I'd find his tears slightly repugnant.
He should have considered those issues before cheating on you.
I'm sure your DD won't mind the area.
He will, though.
Hey Kirsty - of course he wants you to feel you are being unreasonable. He's having to face up to the consequences of what he did and he didn't like it. You and your DD have been living with your mum because of what he did, you need a house, you need to get your life back together. If it takes him longer to get his own life back together that's just tough shit. You are not being unreasonable, do not feel sorry for him.
Did he think about his pension or buying a new house before or after OW sucked his cock? Could try asking that in all innocence.
One of my rules in life (learnt after many years' experience) is that when someone tries to emotionally blackmail you it is ALWAYS in your best interest to ignore them and do the opposite of what they want. He made his bed - literally - now it's his turn to lie in it. Tough shit.
It wouldn't have taken very much fuss at all for you to get a more equitable division of assets, Kirsty, and I suspect that 60/40 or 70/30 would have netted you considerably more than 16 grand.
By my reckoning he's got off scot free and any
crocodile tears he's shedding in front of you are disguising the fact that he's laughing up his sleeve.
Tell the greedy fucker that if he can't afford to buy where he wants, he can rent.
You've been a fool, gal. Don't let him fool you again.
Any chance you can wipe the smirk off his face by getting the question of finances/division of assets revisited?
Tell him to find sympathy in the dictionary between shit and syphilis. That's all he deserves.
Take what is rightfully yours and tell him to remember that this is all his doing for being a cheating scumbag.
Apparently that is all old hat and irrelevant now .. You know the fact that it is all his doing .. And I should stop harping on about it
Your Mum is right, take what is yours and get a home for you and your Dd, don't let his crocodile tears sway you.
Bloody hell - take the money and if he can manage to make you lose all sense of logic and reason to this extent, never speak to him on the phone again. Communicate through texts and emails - regain some control here.
Just tell him to STFU with his whinging. Seriously.
He has absolutely brought this on himself, kirsty. The money is y
Oops, *money is yours for a better future for you and your DD, with fewer ties to him. Listen to your mum !
Kirsty it's not old hat and irrelevant while you are still living with your mum, still sorting out your assets, still don't have a house of your own...all a direct result of what he did. I've been told by a number of people (including my divorce lawyer) that it takes approximately 3 years for most people to really sort their lives out following a divorce so you can tell him tell him you promise to stop "harping" on about it another 2 years.
Harp away! I'm sure he has an answer for everything. He wasn't overjoyed at paying maintenance whilst you and DD were living at your mum's, if I recall?
Tell him to maybe think about it next time he sticks his cock somewhere it shouldn't be!
Yes - my Ex who had an affair, when we were a few months into 'giving it another go' (this is BEFORE MN clearly!!) said he was fed up of going over it and me blaming him etc and he just wanted to 'put it to bed'... I think the words were something like 'If you hadn't fucking put HER to bed none of this would be happening'. We didn't make it...
Get everything you can, ignore the old crocodile tears.
Tough fucking luck on his part. CRYING over money.
Get what you can. Walk away with your head held high.
Donkey he didn't think he should pay maintenance at all !!
I am absolutely raging this morning!! I'd hoped that this could all be resolved and I could start house hunting in January .. The light at the end of the tunnel has been moved further away again
no it hasnt, just think of it as another step towards him getting some 'natural justice'
He has £16000 of your money and is refusing to hand it over and crying to try and get your sympathy.
I'm afraid I don't know your story but I couldn't walk away from that amount of money. Could you communicate with him just through solicitors and then he can't make you feel guilty? Or email if you have to contact directly?
You could explore why you feel so guilty and why you feel that you should be super fair with your ex. He obviously doesn't feel that way towards you otherwise he wouldn't be trying to withhold your money. He's thought out many excuses too, which suggests perhaps the tears are not spontaneous.
It is not his money to give to you, it is your money that he is holding on to. Perhaps if you can see him as your debtor rather than your creditor it would make it easier to see it is your money and that you are entitled to it, tears or not.
It is not old hat at all - he is now living with the consequences of his actions.
Don't do a pension share. Get the £16k he owes you so you can start to rebuild your life. He can live a mile or two further away as I guess that's all the difference it will make to his busting a house.
I have just moved into a house which is not really what I want, because it's all we can afford. But, we will make it better over time.
We had to compromise and so we put DD's needs (good school, garden) over what I would have liked (a pretty period property. Could have afforded one not near the good school, and without garden).
I suggest your ex does the same. He needs to work out what DD's needs are and then put them first. If it's a smaller place, or a different style to what he'd like, or further away, then so be it. (Alternatively, he could stop using her to blackmail you!)
This really is the consequence of his actions. If he'd wanted to split amicably, there was the option of telling you rather than straying and making you go through the trauma of finding out about an affair. But he didn't take that opportunity.
This is his bed, he's made it. Tough.
Just tell him he shouldn't have shoved his dick in another womans fanjo if he was bothered about this kind of thing.
All the money in the world won't make you forget what he did, so why should you be made to feel guilty when the mess is of his own making.
You tend to find that adulterous men are pathetic specimen. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Take the money you are owed, buy yourself a new house. He can go fuck himself.
its YOUR money. tell him to fuck off and hand it over or you will go for a 60/40 spilt of total assetts. He's 'crying' ?????- fuck him. You look after you and DD...
Reminds me of DHs ex who wanted him to promise to give her £110,000 when his mother dies, despite having an affair and putting him on the streets.
You reap what you sow in life I am afraid.
Kirsty, to help you see this through, perhaps it would be useful to remember the tears you cried when you found out about his affair. And then see his tears now for what they are - crocodile tears so that he can have his cake and eat it. Again.
Take the money.
Tell the pathetic little prick to stop snivelling.
Raging is good.
It means you won't fall for his crap.
Isn't "Having your cake and eating it" an entire chapter in the 'Guide to a midlife crisis' (or whatever it's called)? There's whole threads on it here somewhere.
It's just part of the script Kirsty. He may even think the tears are real because they invest so much energy in convincing themselves they are not in the wrong. They rationalise, they make excuses, they look on it as 'one little mistake' rather than what it really is. The refuse to accept that they MADE A CHOICE to do something truly awful and now they have to live with the consequences. He ruined his own life, not you for simply wanting what you're owed. They all do it.
KW - it's standard stuff...he's a snivelling git with an over-blown sense of entitlement. You know that. If he's worried about DD then he'll give more to you - so that her main house is better... It's poor me, poor me again...and you know what we say to that!! You could have asked for more...you didn't. He wants this sorted at least as much as you do. Hold your nerve and DO NOT give any concessions to him. Listen to your Mum on this one ;o)....x
...and remember every penny that he gets is money that could have gone to you/your DD's new place and to her future. You can't trust him with it...he'll spend it on himself. Go KW !! xxxxxx
Actually, how dare he?!
How dare he try to use the thing you know you care about (DD's welfare) to wheedle money out of you.
Like others have said, if it was about DD's welfare, he would have no issue with paying maintenance, or investing more in her main residence.
Please don't fall for it.
Gah. I mean "the thing he knows you care about"
Tell him his tears are old hat and irrelevant .
And to hand over the money sharpish , before it really starts costing him.
16k ? I certainly wouldn't be writing that amount off . What a cheeky self entitled fucker .
Turn this snivelling loser's whining on its head: if he doesn't give you the cash - cash which he legally has to! - then that means YOU, the parent who has primary custody, can't get a good enough house for your DD. And if he's that bothered about her, WTF is he doing not wanting to pay maintenance?! What an arsehole. Don't fall for his bullshit and get that cash off him ASAP. If he cries again, ask him if he was crying and thinking about the best life for his child when he stuck his cock into another woman.
I've drafted up the following email - all views welcome!
I have given our telephone discussion last night some thought
You have said that I earn more than you - that is currently the case. However you are 4 years younger than me and have the opportunity to take a mortgage out over a longer term. You also have more prospect of promotion than I have
You will have a good deposit to put down on a house
I am entitled to my 50% share of our marital assets. My solicitor wanted me to go for a 60/40 split but I wanted to keep it to 50%. She says that a court would probably award 60/40. We could have this sorted now based on a fair split. You know that this is more than reasonable
I want to get DD settled in a new home as soon as possible. She is the one who is ultimately suffering in all this - she doesn't have any of her own things about her or her own space.
Please do what you can to get this moving as soon as possible for all of our sakes
I'd scrap the bit before 'I am entitled...' you do not have to justify yourself.
I'd not say the bits after your first sentence about your dd. if you could appeal to his better nature you would already have the money.
I'd also change the last sentence to 'I would appreciate a response by x with a view to organising the division of funds by 5th Jan (or whatever arbitrary date suits you). Don't justify or plead. It is your money and you are entitled to it. Try and see if you can treat this as a business transaction, good luck!
Do you have to engage with him? Perhaps this is could be the impetus to put everything through the solicitor and nix the weeping and snivelling?
I wouldn't send him anything. Just get the solicitor to send him another letter to get your money.
I'd keep it short and sweet... don't get into any back and forth about earning potential, appealing to his better nature, etc.
Further to our conversation last night, please arrange to transfer the outstanding £16k to my account by X date. If I do not receive the money by this date I will see legal advice.
Sounds ok to me. Little bit of subtly implied threat there which is good I think.
If this does go to court it will eat into the amount of money available, so it's really in everybody's interests, including STBX's, to settle amicably if possible. That does not mean one party should roll over and play dead - or rather, that if one party does roll over and play dead it shouldn't be the one who is being reasonable.
The money is sitting with the conveyancing solicitor
Just need to agree the split and then I can get my hands on a deposit
Ach, good old cross-posting again. Whilst I say your original draft is ok, the suggestions people have made are also ok. As long as the thrust of the email is "no, just hand over the money", it's all fine!
Don't plead or reason with him. Just say that unless he wants to take it back to court, where you will follow the legal advice to pursue a 60-40 split which the judge is anticipated to endorse, then you require him to transfer the agreed funds.
I think your draft is great. I agree you don't need to give him an explanation, but I know I would want to!
I agree you should add a deadline.
BOFing is right. You need to make the 60-40 split the key part of a short email that makes it stand out. The gist of it needs to be: "I will probably get more than 50%, so transfer the money I'm entitled to or you'll have even less." In more polite language, obviously.
My solicitor has been bleeding useless .. she actually wanted to include a pension that I had because I worked for the same company from 1995-98 .. I didn't get married to STBXH until 2004! Would have cost me £6k of the £16k!!!
The thing is that he is a bully and a coward ... Hopefully he will back down if I email him .. and if he doesn't then I will need to engage the solicitor
My solicitor has been bleeding useless .. she actually wanted to include a pension that I had because I worked for the same company * as I do now*from 1995-98 .. I didn't get married to STBXH until 2004! Would have cost me £6k of the £16k!!!
(That makes it a bit clearer)
There is nothing wrong with the draft,
and i'm not a lawyer
so don't know anything
if you think your solicitor HAS been useless, is it worth going to see another one and asking about a 60-40 split before you reply?
You are entitled to this money - you take it. This situation was entirely of his making. Tell him 'It was your choice to have an affair so it's no good crying now about the consequences'.
I just think it's a bit far down the line to switch solicitors now louis
I think it is too long, short and not sweet is way to go, "please transfer the agree £16,000 by XXXX date - or I will have no option but to refer the matter for court action, where I will be seeking a 60/40 split".
Possibly so, I don't know the legal practicalities of it all and if it is all signed nad sealed.
Your ex still seems to think you are in the negotiation part of the process, though...
I'm not sure that you can't say to him 'I've been thinking about your phonecall, and you know, the settlement may not be fair, I agree, you have made me realise I should be getting y not x '
Would at least buck his ideas up a bit.
May I suggest an alternative?
£16k is roughly enough to teach you to keep you bits in your trousers. Now pay up and quick, I have a holiday in Maldives to book with my fabulous new, younger and go-faster boyfriend.
Izzy's version is perfect. Absolutely no nonsense!
Gosh, that was a pretty basic blunder by your solicitor, Kirsty. I hope she's cheap.
TBH it's got nothing to do with his infidelity and everything to do with a fair and reasonable split of matrimonial assets. Take or leave it...it's a fair offer and the best he's going to get. Or we'll go to court and who knows how they will rule/how much legal fees will eat into your assets...He really won't want to go to court...guarantee that. I'd give less indication that you're in a hurry tbh. He needs it at least as much as you do..prob more.
Annie she is a friend of a friend and has been 'worse than a man down' (according to my sister) .. apparently I'm getting a discount as a result of being a friend of her pal but then I'd rather she did her job and I could actually get hold of her without having to wait a fortnight!
*Lovingfreedom' Yes he wants to minimise using lawyers as much as possible .. also so he can try and browbeat me into things
KW - 50% is really really reasonable (of you). He just can't expect to get any greater share of assets than that.
TBH I'd avoid talking or reasoning with him - he is being unreasonable. Someone wrote on another thread 'never excuse, never explain' and it's such good advice.
Why do you want the £16k? Not because he's been such a bad boy, not cos to punish him, not cos you don't care about your DD and where she lives....because it's part of your 50:50 agreed share...end of. He's a chancer and you're still being too nice to him (of course I mean that in the nicest possible way).
I went for 50% of the ex twunts very generous public sector pension. I got it. I also went for (and got) just over 90% of the equity. Plus 15% child maintenance til our DD has finished uni in 5 years. And spousal maintenance (which I didn't particularly want but sol said the judge would almost certainly award it anyway).
It took two years and many visits to the sol before I finally got the consent order a few weeks ago. I was absolutely determined not to let him continue walking all over me the way he did during our long marriage.
When he broke down and cried in front of the mediator I advised the mediator to ignore it - because I had seen it all so many times before and my ex twunt is (by his own admission) a failed thespian.
Go for it OP.
badcompany, if I ever get divorced I am going to pm you. It's nice (and rare) to read on here of a woman actually getting what she is entitled to and not letting herself get screwed over by her ex!
It's so hard Karma - I understand now why so many women walk away with less than they deserve because u just need it to be over.
I would do exactly as HandbagCrab suggests. It may be politer than your ex deserves but I think it is usually better to be as civil as possible.
It can work the other way too. My exw got all the equity in the house although not much at the time and I have paid £50,000 in maintainance over the last 15 years despite having our child 3 nights a week......she was the one who had the affair not me!
Maybe i shoulf have fought harder but In my opinion it's not all about shafting people in life. It's about standing on your own two feet, getting what's fair (as the 50/50 split is to the OP) an moving on.
There is nothing worse than having two parents hating each other for te rest of their lives for the child who had no part in the decision to split.
Your email is fine and to the point OP but don't carry the affair resentment around forever. It's not worth it and believe me there are plenty more fish in the sea.
Jesus BC, you must have been really struggling to get that kind of payout, that effectively says that the judge thought you were completely incapable of getting a job and being financially independant.
It must have been an extreme case (or your ExH couldn't afford a solicitor) because spousal maintenance is very rare these days.
It teaches a lesson that all women (and men) should remain independant.
If that's what you got I think it's simply wrong - no-one should be punished to that extent for leaving a relationship - short of child abusers, murders and rapists.
If he was any of those things I withdraw my comments.
Is spousal maintenance rare? Or is it a case of it being awarded when a woman or man has been a sahp to the financial benefit of the working parent and at significant cost to their own career?
Its rare these days, according to the solicitor I spoke to.
Tell him the courts charge interest at 8% and you will be applying for the interest be added.
Next time he cried, hang up.
My understanding is that spousal maintenance is still awarded but usually only up to a max of 3 years to allow the less financially independent partner to get back on their feet. Child maintenance is considered a separate issue. And (at least in Scotland) all financial arrangements are awarded on a "no fault" basis. So doesn't actually matter who had the affair or instigated the divorce, even if you have hard proof and want to go to court, money is awarded on basis of circumstances, need and potential future earnings.
"all old hat and irrelevant" ie any idea of you putting his feelings or interests anywhere on your list of priorities.
Izzychangeling - actually if he had been ANY of those, I wouldn't have taken a penny no matter how hard things got.
However, perhaps it is helpful to know that despite being urged on many occasions by my sol and by me (in our rare moments of direct contact) the ex declined to seek legal advice. He thought that he could both wear me out and (in his narcissism) believed he could beat the legal system single-handedly.
He was wrong.
What I have actually spent £10,000 of my own money on (because yes, I am independent and entirely capable) in the last 2 years is making sure he kept to the 'promises' he made to me when I discovered our marriage was a sham. I would happily have let a judge decide our fate whatever the percentages - but ex didn't want to go to court. I knew he would renege on every single promise he made and so I merely kept him to his word by making him go for a consent order instead - which yes, a judge has sealed.
It's not my fault that he failed to spot that I wasn't the woman he thought I was, and neither is it my fault that he ACTUALLY thought he could manipulate the legal system without so much as consulting with it!!! So in my book he got what he deserves if only for that.
I make no apologies to anyone for my settlement - my DD will have a home for as long as she needs it.
You shouldn't have to apologise bc, good for you. (BTW, what's a consent order?)
I wouldn't expect you to be sorry - I just tend to think That just because you can do something - it doesn't mean you should do it.
I could've had a much more generous settlement if I had wanted - but I didn't see the need.
A consent order is basically one where both parties sign to say they agree and the judge rubber stamps it
What Izzy says.
OR: Don't be in such a hurry, KW. Change solicitors and go for 60/40.
I sent him the following email and I've included his last response at the end .. (this is the last response I've had as during yesterday he was being obtuse and acting as though he didn't know what I was talking about) ...
I have given our telephone discussion on Sunday night some thought
I am entitled to 50% share of our marital assets. My solicitor wanted me to go for a 60/40 split as this is what a court would probably award but I wanted to keep it as 50/50.
We could have this sorted now based on a 50/50 split. Neither of us wants to have to pay solicitors more than we need to and would both rather the money was in our pockets. This is more than reasonable.
Can we please agree to go ahead and get this finalised by the first week in January in order for this to be moved forward.
He replied ...
I wouldn't be able to sustain paying such a difference, finding a decent place for DD and sustaining a decent quality of life for her. I'll definitely need to approach Strathclyde pension fund in light of the changes to the Scottish fire service as the pension will change considerably and not yield that return.
I'll get on it right away. There will also need to be other things to be included to conclude the minute of agreement which we will need to discuss.
The emotional blackmail about having to get DD a place in a good area is really getting on my nerves - We lived in one of the BEST streets in our very large town until he insisted that the house was sold!
He thinks that because the Fire Service is changing in Scotland that he should get his pension revalued? But surely the valution he got will not change as they do not have crystal balls? I am on a final salary pension myself and no doubt it will change?
I don't really want to go 60/40 but will threaten that to see if it an resolve matters sooner.
I really cannot stay with my mum longer - it is a very small house and we are both quite set in our ways .. If I'd known it was going to take this long I'd have rented!
KW It's all about him. If he really cared about DD's living conditions then he would settle quickly so that you and her could get a place. The guy is a bully and he's full of shite. All the stuff about pensions changing is a distraction.
If you were having mild contractions I'd say stay up and mobilise but as you're not, def sleep or at least put your feet up. Baby will be here soon, good luck
I think you posted on the wrong thread Dilly
Kirsty not exactly the same situation but nearly the same twatish XH behaviour!
Kids and I are still in the family home, XH's name is still jointly on the mortgage. When we did our minute of separation we agreed that I would sell within 3 years, 60/40 split of the equity and in the mean time he no longer has any rights to occupy the house without my permission.
He agreed this with our lawyers....at great expense! But now he's pissed off that I don't want him spending time in the house so at every opportunity he tells the kids that's it's his house still and how unfair I'm being and how he would be perfectly entitled to enter the house any time he wants despite our legal agreement. He knows I'm going to sell as soon as I'm financially able to take on my own mortgage so WTF does he hope to gain by trying to push me out sooner? Does he really think it's in his DC's best interest to force me to sell now and have to rent rather than waiting another 6 months til I can buy? Surely he knows all this but he just can't help acting like a complete fuckmuppet about it all.
Hey yoga They really don't think of anyone but themselves do they??
I was glad that the house got sold .. One less tie to the twat .. Now if he would just agree the money I can be even further shot of him!!
And then I can divorce him!!
My divorce papers will be coming through just after new year - woo hoo!
Well haven't heard anything further from him on the subject so I am going to tell him today if he has not agreed by Friday then I am going for 60/40 and he will be £20k down before legal fees if that is the case
He is a coward and a bully and I just need to stand up to him .. Wish me luck!!!
He will probably say his solicitor is on holiday until some time nect month. TBH though I'm totally in agreement with your point of view here, and awful lot of "professional" people like solicitors close up for a full fortnight this time of year. So maybe make it a couple of days later so you can't be accused of unreasonableness?
Good luck Kirsty, keep strong
I will give him til a week tomorrow
go for it. He's pushed you to it. You were being more than fair. 60/40 in your favour it is. He's not putting your DD first, he's putting himself first.
Good luck Kirsty. Your ex is probably hoping you will back down in light of all hie emails and threats.
You are so right giving him a deadline--don't let him sway you otherwise. A week is enough, not a minute more and please do go for the 60/40 split. If not for you but for you DD
It was a year ago today that I found the proof of his affair ;a card written to his girlfriend declaring his undying love) it is somewhat poetic that it has come to this today
And tonight I am going away with my new man for a shagfest
yay! It's amazing how far you can come in a year.
Another year it will all be sorted.
Well he engineered to pick DD early and was in a rush to pick his sister up from the airport so didn't get a chance .. Will email tomorrow .. Off to aforementioned shag feat and so shall banish it from my mind for tonight
Good Luck Kirsty.
My sols said 50/50 is a starting point and that it's worked out from there depending on DC's, assets, pensions etc, so you are being more than fair with him. If it went to court chances are he would end up with less.
Sent the email today
It has been a fortnight since you sent this email (^saying he couldn't afford to pay me what I am owed^) and I have not heard anything further from you
My pension is currently a final salary pension but that will be changing as well. The valuations are done as at time of separation and there will not be any change to refect unknown future events
You should be biting my hand off to take a 50/50 split - I don't see how you can hope to achieve any better than that and as I have explained if I was to go with my solicitor's advice I should be expecting to get 60%!
If I do not hear from you by Monday agreeing to the 50/50 split as proposed by my solicitor I will be taking her advice and will pursue the 60/40 split through the courts.
You will then be worse off as not only will you get a lower amount but you will also have increased lawyers fees to pay on top of that
What I have proposed is more than fair, minimises lawyers fees and allows us to move forward as quickly as possible
I await your response
Good letter! Let's hope he sees sense and actually has the maturity to engage with you now...
Nice email . Can't wait to see his response to it......
Lovely email that sets you in a perfect position for a large I Told You So later
Well he hasn't replied to the email - he phoned and left a voicemail (I didn't answer as he basically bullies me)
The jist of it was
Well there's no point in getting into emails back and forward .. the solicitors have been shut so he is not holding anything up .. My solicitor is suggesting 60/40 as she wants to go to court to get more money out of me and his solicitor has assured him that it doesn't work like that .. he doesn't like the threatening tone of the email and doesn't know what I hope to achieve!!!
I hope to get my 50% of the marital assets so that I can move out of my mum's!!! Why does it have to be so F**ing difficult???
Advice please before I respond??
I wouldn't respond. Yet. Give him until Monday.
He has just sent me the following email
I have left you a voicemail.
I will forward your email to Anne my solicitor who returns to work on Monday following her holiday.
Your solicitor did not forward any documentation with her last letter, Anne will have to get copies of this as this should have been done in the first place and is one of the points holding things up from your side of things.
I have said that I am more than willing to discuss things with you but you seem happier to take the advice and direction from your lawyer which in turn causes delay.
I'm not sure what else to say??
I'm trying to ensure a secure future for DD which I did think you you understood from our last conversation.
So your demand for an answer by Monday is unlikely to happen this is out if my hands.
There's no reason why you would get less than 50% if you went to court, and there is a chance you'd get 60%. He can only lose. What is he hoping to achieve?
Does he just want you to give in to him for the satisfaction? What an annoying man.
I am very tempted to send the following
I am trying to get DD in to a home of her own as quickly as possible which I thought YOU understood from our last conversation. i'm sure I do not need to remind you that she lived in a very good area before YOU insisted that her home was sold.
I am not willing to accept less than the 50% of the marital assets as proposed in my solicitor's letter and I cannot fathom why you cannot understand this
Let's leave it in the hands of the solicitors
Maybe you should just leave it to the solicitors. Talking to him is getting you nowhere and is raising your blood pressure.
I wonder if you can go for 60% of assets plus your extra associated fees, due to his obstruction. I would certainly be sympathetic to that in principle if I were the judge!
You will drive him nuts if you don't reply at all, or leave it until after the weekend and then re-send the first email, asking for a constructive response.
Lisa I did that the last time and it just meant a fortnight passed with no discussion
"I have said that I am more than willing to discuss things with you but you seem happier to take the advice and direction from your lawyer"
Now I wonder why that might be?
Could it be because he is the man who has lied through his teeth and betrayed you whilst your lawyer is a specialist paid by you to represent your interests? Nah. Must be because you're an awkward cow.
Don't respond to him. If you hear nothing constructive by Monday then all further negotiations/contact through your solicitor.
He is being obstructive for whatever reason, just disengage completely or you'll just get drawn in and very frustrated.
Don't answer and leave to solicitor.
So one minute he's saying you should be sending stuff to his solicitor, and the next he's blaming you for wanting to do everything through solicitors? He can't have it both ways!
He's a selfish arsehole. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this horrible behaviour on top of his betrayal - he cheats, deprives your daughter of her home, and is now trying to manipulate you into letting him steal from you both, too?!
Congratulations on the divorce.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I would go for every blooming penny I can get. Every blooming penny. I think you are daft to go for a quick fix - the money is too important.
He is using the fact that you want things resolved to get his way.
REally, you don't know what the future holds, I would go for everything you are owed no matter how long it takes, and if you make it clear to him and your solicitor that you are willing to wait, no matter how long it takes, he will be more likely to cave.
I have met many bitter exwives who should have held out for their share but wanted things resolved so gave in, big mistake in the long run.
I just sent the following email to my solicitor
Dear KW's Solicitor
Happy New Year!
Well here we are a year on and no further forward it seems! STBXH seems to think that a 50/50 split is in some way unfair. He doesn't think he should be paying me any of his pension as that will affect DD's 'standard of living' and the type of place that he will be able to buy - this is the £16k balance that we are talking about. I have had him crying on the phone about it! He has also suggested that he may be able to get his pension revalued in light of future changes that may happen in the fire service but I am sure that the valuation is at date of separation and will not change?
I am not willing to give in to his emotional blackmail. I want my 50% split of the marital assets - not as it is punitive but because it is fair
He has suggested that you have not furnished his solicitor with the correct information and also that the proposal that you have made does not consitute a separation agreement and further things such as childcare and more will need to be included. Can you please advise? I want the separation to be concluded and then divorce him.
I just want to get this sorted as soon as possible. I have tried threatening the court route and going for a 60/40 split as you will see if you look down this email chain but I really just want it sorted
Can you please advise me how to get this moving forward as quickly as possible and if there is any pressure that you can bring to make this happen
Can you please get back to me soonest on this and advise me if you are not going to be able to reply before next Wednesday (9th)
Nice email KirstyWirsty .
Vbisme I got spousal maintenance. I work and have prospects. It's due to the financial circumstances ex left us in. NOTHING to do with me not working or being incapable if taking care if myself.
I worked right the way thro my marriage and continue to do so. I have a professional career.
You won't get anything useful or sensible out of your STBXH so I would ignore/avoid/minimise things there, especially if he is a bully .
I think your energies should be focused on making sure your solicitior is doing the right thing on your behalf.
I think that you're being too soft.
By agreeing to the 50/50 split, and mentioning it frequently, you have indicated that you ARE willing to compromise on your rights. So of course he assumes that you are willing to compromise some more.
You should stop offering a quick solution, and communicate only via your solicitor, who should be asking for a 65/35 split.
Would I get higher than the 50/50? I earn more than him and I have DD 4 days and he has her 3
He says his solicitor assures him that I won't!!!
Wait for your solicitor's reply.
Meanwhile, and just in case, could you have a free consultation with another socitor?
Agree on big issues - legal or medical - a second opinion always useful ...
He is a tool.
What you need to realise is that solicitors will always argue for the best possible settlement for their client, regardless of rights and wrongs. I work for a family law team in Glasgow so I know this first hand.
So, he is saying his solicitor says 60/40 split won't happen - she will do her best to make sure that doesn't. Your solicitor on the other hand should be doing her utmost to make sure it does (if that was what you wanted). Ultimately a Sheriff would make the decision based on all the financial information provided (which would all need to be vouched) - it is quite difficult to hide financial information in these cases. Or to avoid ending up in court you should have a Minute of Agreement signed by you both agreeing exact figures. There really should be a MOA in this case. Both solicitors would have had vouching of financial info to enable this to be prepared.
I think you would be wise to think about changing solicitors even at this late stage or insist your current one gets her finger out)
Thanks Tass I work in Glasgow and I am not happy with my solicitor at all .. especially after the pension fiasco (she said my pension from the same company as I am in now but in a different period of employment pre-marriage should be included as a marital asset and yet only his pension from the period of the marriage is included??? Surely not!)
I thought it would be too late at this stage in the game to change?
Regardless, he wants to give you less than 50:50, which is definitely not on.
He should accept what has been agreed on or risk getting worse for him.
Am not a solicitor but do know that pre marriage assets are not taken into account (your pension valuation should be from date of marriage to date of separation) value before marriage and after separation are irrelevant) - am not sure where you are in terms of agreement - is it simply between you and exh or are the solicitors involved in it? I really wouldn't agree something so important without a legally binding Minute of Agreement in place - if you not happy with solicitor (and she does seem less than competent) I would think about changing or is there someone with more experience with the firm you are with.
tass solicitors have been involved .. I met mine a year ago she has given me no advice , has drawn up a basic separation agreement to cover the house sale and has requested SERPS pension valuation .. Bill so far nearly £2k .. Now all pension valuations are in she has sent a letter proposing the 50/50 split of Assets which stbxh is contesting
You're probably using the same
utterly useless firm that handled my mother's divorce. They ended up costing her tens of thousands of pounds (possibly more than that) because of their ineptitude.
Like seriously bad: e.g. losing records of the correspondence where my dad agreed to let my mum have the house because he got the business, which was at the time worth far more but he decided to run it into the ground and go bust just to spite her (he's an abusive twat, as I'm sure you'll have gathered). Failing to get their paperwork in on time so court dates had to be postponed, at my mother's expense. And so on...
Either that or there are more really crappy family law solicitors in Glasgow than you'd hope.
And he is being a total arsehole. Don't give in to him.
Just because she is a partner doesn't make her competent - but can see how you cant really go to her senior - there may however be someone else in the firm you could deal with - problem is a lot of firms have really small family law units and so might not have anyone else with that expertise. You could change but if you are close to a settlement might not be worth it. Incidentally do you know what sheriff court would be involved if that's where it ends up?
I don't see how he can reasonably contest a 50/50 split - if I were you I would leave it to solicitors and don't speak to him about the financial aspects ... I suspect he knows this though and is just chancing his arm
Agree re crappy lawyers and probably best to go on recommendations of people who have used them before (successfully).
Could someone please help and advise me.
I divorced around two and a half years ago. We agreed a 50/50 split from house, savings etc financially. I have a new house and he ended up buying me out of the family home.
Anyway to cut a long story short, I thought he was a good father and agreed whilst we were divorcing that he can have three days access to the kids, he suggested the weekends I agreed. This is an agreement we made and not a court order. There was a few months where I had to move in with my sister because he would not allow me to stay when I had been given my financial settlement. As I could not get my children to school etc they stayed with him he then applied for child benefit which I was fair and thought he does have the children more than me. I have moved into my new home an applied for child benefit for both children and have been denied. I only get child benefit for one child. My ex does not pay any maintenance but does pay for after school clubs and a few other things such as clothes they wear when they are with him. My daughter started private school in sept 2012, and my ex promised he wouls contribute towards the fees. I have asked him for the money now for around six m onths he refuses saying he has paid for school uniforms and shoes and feels he has paid more than enough. I have tried to get CSA involved they tell me that because he is in receipt of child benefit for one child he can claim maintenance from me for the other child. I am seriously thinking about regaining full custody for both children as the situation is not working, kids living in two homes when one parent is a tight ass is hard work, not to mention the mix ups with missing uniforms, forgotten books at dads etc. Can anyone advise please as Im at my wits end!!!
zaz.Might be best if you start your own thread.This one of Kirsty's long running and needs to flow freely.All the best Mx.
tass my lawyer is a friend of a friend who is a corporate solicitor . Yes I should have gone with someone who had been recommended by someone who had been through the process but it seemed like a good idea at the time!!
What size is the firm - is it in the city centre ?
Well just happened to check my bank statement and he hasn't paid his maintenance this month ...
Does it get any easier???
Good solicitor. Yesterday, in fact. It's the only way now.
Really sorry, OP. He's an arse.
My solicitor has come back with why my pension that I had before my marriage is to be included ..
Each pension that you have is apportioned pro rata for the period of the marriage whether taken out before the marriage or not. If you only have one there is only one to be apportioned to the period of the marriage. If you have more than one they are both apportioned to the period of the marriage. In my view it is inequitable in situations like your own. Its not what we like but the courts have decided that that is how the Act is to be interpreted so if the other side know this and insist on it we will have to follow it. No period is taken into account from before the marriage for him or you. The essence is that although you had the pension before you were married you still have it ie through your marriage you have also had it albeit not paid into it They therefore do the same apportionment with only the period of the marriage being counted thus resulting in a lower figure because of the length of time of the pension. The period before the marriage is not counted for any of the apportionments
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I posted on the Legal Matters Board and STIDW said
^The way pensions in Scotland are apportioned on divorce is rather a blunt instrument buts its quite straightforward.
The relevant date for valuing the total pension is usually the date of separation.
This figure is then divided by the total number of years contributions were made to to the pensions fund.
Once you know how much is apportioned to each year you multiply that number by the number of years contributions were made during the marriage.
For example if the total value of the fund is £100k you would divide by the number of years contributions were made, say 20 years. That would give you a figure of £5k which is then multiplied by the number of years contributions were paid during the marriage. If you were married for 20 years but only paid contributions in 10 of those years you would multiply £5k by 10 = £50k apportioned to the marriage.
Your solicitor is quite correct, the way pensions are apportioned is written down in stone^
However I did not make ANY contributions to the previous pension during the marriage so I've PM'd STIDW to get clarification that the pension therefore should NOT be counted as a marital asset
I got divorced in Scotland. My solicitor said that the matrimonially assets had to be split "equitably" which was usually 50:50 although you could try and get something different if exceptional circumstances. Most couples I know did 50:50 like me. My current husband got 60:40 split (in favour of his ex) as she wanted to have the children most of the time.
You only count pension contributions that were accrued during the marriage though. I'm not sure if that just means stuff you have paid in over the marriage term or if a pension that you previously paid into but stopped and which has just been gaining (or falling) in value would count as well. Your solicitor should know this though.
If your husband has to buy a smaller house then he has to buy a smaller house. Most people are worse off financially when they divorce.
Has anyone got any handy hints to get things moving forward??
Still haven't had a response from stbxh's solicitor .. Even a counter offer!! Letter was sent a month ago .. My solicitor says there is nothing to move it faster
I am going to have to consider renting .. Can't stay with mum for months more!
Kirstywirsty I feel for you this kind of thing makes me
My work involves dealing with solicitors and both parties in a divorce. The H's sol always delays the process.
If I were you I'd look at rentals and discuss with your sol about taking the court route. As long as your dh delays it's costing you money and inconvenience so you need to start looking at a 60-40 split if you do go to court. Or would you still accept 50-50? That would be very generous of you & he doesn't deserve it. I'd be asking sol if the fact that you earn more will go against you or not. On one hand you have contributed more to the marital pot, but conversely could the courts see you as being better able to support yourself in future.
Also that advice you cut & paste from your sol seemed on the nose & you ate dealing with her delays by staying on top of her and asking for prompt response so it's not as if she's a bad choice to continue with. If you are genuinely concerned that she won't get you what you need then you could always consult free of charge (?) with another sol to talk about if they could help you better. My gut feel us that changing sol at this time could look bad to the courts as it might look as if you're shopping around for sol to tell you what you want to hear. But don't hold me that. I'm not 100% sure that's how it works!
Set a deadline and then go to court?
I think that the H's solicitor should push to count those older pensions as assets, not yours.
Maybe do the calculations, but leave it to see if they want to include them?
I would say sticking it out with DM for a bit longer is well worth it if you have a better settlement/ maintenance payments / pension for decades to come.
Lueji I didn't make any contributions to the older pension during the marriage so why is it a marital asset? I was actually married to someone else when I paid into it!
DD and I have been in my single bedroom every night this weekend watching DVDs on the laptop.. Definitely time to move out of mum's
I am so sick to the back teeth of the whole thing
I didn't mean that it should count.
On the contrary.
That you should wait to see if your STBXH claims it or not. Then argue your points and only agree if you have no choice, really.
I misunderstood lueji
I think if I just get myself out of the limbo I am in at mums then it will send a message that I am prepared to wait it out .. Rather than being desperate for him to sort it out
I need to get DD and I our own space
It's not worth throwing in the towel and getting a solicitor who specialises in family law, and who has teeth?
jux my solicitor is a barrister who specialises in family law!
I'm not sure I have the right end of the stick here, Kirsty, is your solicitor actually a partner in corporate law?
If so, that throws up a few issues-
1) She's probably working 12 hours a day on her normal job anyway
2) She's probably very expensive; and if she's charging mate's rates, is she covered by her professional indemnity insurance?
3) Unless she often does her friends' divorces, she probably hasn't done any family law since her training contract, 10-15 years ago maybe?
I'd be very wary...especially if it's getting complex with pensions etc.
Oh, sorry, xpost, I thought you said corporate above?
No my friend is a corporate lawyer .. She recommended her lawyer who is a barrister in family law
Sorry for the confusion!
Can you get out and start finding a life for yourself. Can DD not be babysat by GPs.
This is the start of the rest of your life, start looking ahead.
No doubt DD is fed up too but make it clear it's not your doing.
I'd send one final email to the wanker.
I'd state that you are no longer prepared to subject DD to the impermanence of being a guest at her GP and that you need the money released within 2 weeks. Failing that you will be renting a flat and seeking a 60/40 split as orginally advised by your solicitor, to better reflect your respective childcare responsibilities and future earning potential. You only ever agreed to a disadvantageous split in order to expedite the matter in DD's interests, but as he now appears willing to drag the process out in order to force what can only be described as a grossly inequitable division (which would leave you unable to provide DD with an acceptable primary residence, his indifference to which appals you) you feel the additional living and legal expenses he is forcing you into leave you with no choice but to return to the 60/40 split you were first advised was your entitlement.
PS: Dear STBX, you are a cock.
And Kirsty I am so, so sorry. What he did to you was shitty, but to try to deprive his own child of a decent place to live, because you're a greedy fucktard who thinks he should get whatever he wants and screw anyone else, even his own child, in the process... that's horrifying.
You offered a more than generous 50/50, given you're taking primary responsibility for the child of the marriage, and yet he doesn't see why you, the wife he betrayed - and his own child - shouldn't subsidise his living above his means?! Unbelievable, has he no shame?
You've done well to jettison the creep. That's all I can say. And I would, personally, rent that flat and get the extra money. Let him pay for the legal fees indirectly, if he wants to try to bully you this way.
Meep, sorry, I was so enraged I got my tenses muddled! HE, obviously, is the greedy fucktard here.
Drizzle I have a life .. I've got a very nice new man and lots of lovely friends
Perfectstorm I am trying to get hold of my solicitor to check that I will get 60/40 and then I am planning on doing that very thing!
I am fed up with my life being in limbo because of him and he is going to be controlling this no more!!
Good for you!
Sorry to get so ranty, I was just - what an ARSE!
Hope your solicitor agrees. "I want" shall have to be his master, as my Granny used to say. .
"I want doesn't get" was my gran's
Got this from my solicitor today
I refer to the above and to your call to the office yesterday. I am due to be out at court for the next few days.
I confirm that I have had a request from your husbands solicitors who appear to think that there was an error in the valuation that was provided to them by your company . There was not an error. I also told them the date your contributions commenced and explained the apportionment I had carried out. I did not initially provide them with a copy of the covering letter from Your company as it made reference to your earlier pension and I was trying simply to exclude any reference to that albeit we had disclosed it existed.
They appear however to be content to restrict their claim to the pension that was during the period of the marriage and on that basis I have now faxed them over a copy of the covering letter which confirms the date that you started your pension contributions as detailed in my letter to them of 10th December and therefore they should now be able to satisfy themselves about the apportionment. I am unclear as to why they think the valuation was wrong but it appears that your husband has indicated to them that there was an error in the valuation.
Hopefully this will be agreed soon!! The flat I liked has been taken so maybe fate and this is all going to be sorted <snorts .. Yeah right!>
Also had confirmation from another family lawyer ( another friend of a friend) that my solicit is correct re pensions although they don't seem to be wanting to go down that path thankfully
Your solicitor sounds good, and quite determined. I suspect that privately the other solicitors are a bit fed up with your dh, except every query he has means more dosh for them.
Hope you get your 60/40 split, and it all ends soon. There's only so much your ex can mess about with in the face of an opposing solicitor who won't take any shit before he risks being simply vexatious.
Jux I am still happy to take 50/50 .. am not wanting the hassle - just want it sorted and to be able to move on with my life
Fingers crossed that is the last quibble and it can be tied up soon .. then I can divorce the dickhead!
I'm assuming that the pension valuation was done by an expert acting for you and ex jointly. This expert valuation is binding except in the case of fraud or manifest error. As there is no fraud then the only way your ex's sol can challenge is on the grounds of error. Even if it's not true it can be a delaying tactic which in the case of your ex allows him to a)keep his cash for longer and b)give him another chance to strong arm you into accepting less. If I were you I'd up my demands to 60/40 and still try and settle out if court. There is a reason why you are entitled to it! But I can see you are determined to just get it over & done with which is very good of you.
Zen he doesn't have the money .. The equity from the house is sitting with the conveyancing solicitor until the settlement is agreed
Zen he doesn't have the money .. The equity from the house is sitting with the conveyancing solicitor until the settlement is agreed
On 30th December you said "I will give him til a week tomorrow" and then you would go for 60/40. With men like this you need to treat them like toddlers and carry out your threats.
At the moment he thinks that whatever you say will just be bluster, and that you won't do it, so he can safely ignore. Show him he's wrong.
Jux I tried to get hold of my solicitor on Monday to discuss if that was a possibility and she sent me and email on Tuesday (see above) telling me she was in court all week so have not been able to speak to her
Got an email from my solicitor yesterday .. He has offered pension share after dragging this out for 6 months!! We are going back looking for 4k less capital and a threat of litigation (including looking for costs) if not agreed
Well my solicitor has just sent the following (it's been a fortnight since we received offer of the pension share!!!
We refer to the above and MySols telephone call to your office.
Your clients proposal to divide the sale proceeds of the house equally and thereafter to deal with matters by way of pension share are not acceptable to our client.
As your client is aware as a result of his conduct our client has had no alternative but to agree the sale of the matrimonial home. She now requires to provide accommodation for herself and for the parties daughter. She is not in a position to get the loan that she wishes for her daughter unless any balancing payment is paid by capital sum.
We would be obliged if you would ask your client to review the position and we would be obliged to hear from you within the next 7 days, failing which we will have no alternative but to raise court proceedings and to seek an order for a capital sum. Given the expense involved to both parties and the fact that the sum that your client requires to pay from his pension is not that significant we would hope that that would not be necessary.
In the event that your client is not prepared to settle the matter can you please take his instructions in relation to accepting service of a writ.
This letter will be founded upon should we require to proceed to court in relation to any issue of expenses.
Kirsty sorry only read half the thread but buying a house isn't essential. He can rent, there's nothing wrong with that at all. He'll have to rent while he saves, it isn't the end of the world. Don't let him grind you down
I know Lubey he i actually complaining that £60k isn't enough for him to put down a deposit!!!
God. Don't ever, ever let him make you think you are wrong, you're not. In fact you're being very generous seeing as the split is more often 60/40 to main carer of the child
Yeeee haaa!! The threat of court did the trick.. He has capitulated and is giving me the capital although 'he is not happy about it' (which makes it even more of a pleasure)
My solicitor is picking up the pace now .. Minute of agreement is a typed up including clause that says that his solicitor should retain his half of the cost of the divorce so I don't need to chase him for it
She actually put in the covering letter that he should pay the full whack but I will pay half
to get shot to speed things up
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