Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.

Skyebluesapphire goes onwards and upwards

(1000 Posts)
imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 11-Dec-12 18:56:56

New thread - link to my old thread for my own purposes.

Onwards and upwards..... through Christmas and beyond..

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 11-Dec-12 18:58:22
DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Tue 11-Dec-12 19:01:21

Hello Skye Happy Advent here on your new thread smile.

dondon33 Tue 11-Dec-12 19:20:38

Hi Skye, I'm bookmarking so I can continue to follow.
Here's to a healthy and happy 2013 for you and MS xx

MrsTomHardy Tue 11-Dec-12 20:39:54

Hi Skye
I've followed your story...first time I've posted.
Keep strong.

Hi Skye - hoping you've had a good day! x

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Wed 12-Dec-12 12:29:39

Hey Skye,

Still simmering over odd presents and cat food...

How are you today?

tribpot Wed 12-Dec-12 12:51:28

Onwards and upwards indeed. The skye's the limit - boom boom!

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Wed 12-Dec-12 13:04:35

Im OK. I feel normal again, bit tearful at times. I definitely have a massive problem with my hormones. I did mention it to the doctor, but she didn't say much about it. i will have to discuss again as I cant keep going up and down like this.....

I cried last night because I was looking at old texts.. I was looking for proof of the day he left so that I could sent it to WTC who think that he is still living here....

The texts just after he left... I'm sorry, I have handled all this badly. I'm sorry for hurting you. Give me time. I just don't feel the same any more.... Who knows, with time I may feel different..... I will always care about you and wish you well for the future........

what a twat the man is....

I emailed him again to ask if he has now changed his address on everything as it is causing me problems. He replied that he is working his way through everything and that it will be done soon. He has had 3 months of being in his own house! Of course he didn't have to worry about any of that last time we moved because I dealt with it all for him didnt I....

Im working at a clients today (honest!) and he is going to see her school play then taking her back to his house. MS is quite excited as she hasn't seen him for nearly a fortnight now..

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Wed 12-Dec-12 13:16:09

Sounds a right old mix of emotions and hormones, talk to your GP again.

Glad ex is attending mini Skye's play. Little steps, and all that.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Wed 12-Dec-12 23:45:21

Yesterday Twunt text to say he would bring her home between 6 and 6.30 today, then today at 6.15 he texts to say that he would be late as she was eating her tea. She got back just after 7 which is right on bedtime... And he had taken her to soft play so hardly quality time... Anyway.... She's happy so I suppose that's all that matters

Today I was chatting to one of my clients and she has seen what I've been through this past year.... She said that I was amazing, that the strength I have shown has been great and that the shock and grief I've had to deal with has been very traumatic. She went through a divorce herself several years ago but remembers the fears and the despair.

She reminded me that I have MS, my home, and a good business that I'm building up. I have a lot to be thankful for.

Twunt on the other hand has nothing. His choice.

My mum rang today to say she has received a Christmas card from XMIL. Maybe mines in the post.....

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Wed 12-Dec-12 23:52:58

I am glad you can read your old threads, so many have encouraged you and tried to boost your confidence and show there is Life After Divorce. The client you saw today seems to echo that.

So Twunt went to mini Skye's play, took her out afterwards, gave her tea, brought her home. Job done!

Don't hold your breath waiting for a card. You are cool, unflappable, rising above it all. If one comes, think of it not as coming from ex MIL but mini Skye's gran. Subtle difference.

wheredidiputchristmas Thu 13-Dec-12 07:30:03

That's what I said on an earlier thread.

In a year or 2 time or will have MS, your business will thriving. Your home will be yours and decorated to how you want it. Your life with MS will be happy and busy doing all sorts of lovely, exciting things.

Meanwhile your Ex will be drowning in debt (or worse), in a bedsit maybe seeing MS once a every other weekend still texting OW.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 13-Dec-12 09:01:34

I just wish I could put him out if my head and stop thinking about what he did to me. Everybody is so shocked at what he did so I know it's not just me who finds it unbelievable but it's very hard to accept it.

All the divorce has done is sever financial ties not emotional ones.

I will get there one day.hmm

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Thu 13-Dec-12 11:39:07

Writing Christmas cards thinking I don't know if some couples are still together. I don't know how you get past this Skye is it like they suggest for getting past an addiction, take one day at a time?

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 13-Dec-12 11:54:45

yes, one day at a time. Im not sending out many Christmas Cards this year as I hate writing just me and MS, but I will send to people who live away who may not know. (I know they dont as Im getting cards addressed to both us us...)

On good days I know that Im better off without him and my life is a lot less stressful nowadays...

Off to watch MS in her school play this afternoon (proud mummy alert).. my mum is coming too and MS is so please that Nana is going.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Thu 13-Dec-12 12:24:52

A star is born... enjoy the play smile.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 13-Dec-12 12:58:15

I saw my neighbour this morning and he said that he saw XH at the play yesterday and the XH spoke to him, so he had to speak back as he couldn't be rude....

but he said that he despises XH, that you don't walk out when there is a little one involved, and that he will regret it one day. This man works away 2 days at a time, so misses his girls dreadfully then, but does it so that they could afford to move out of a city into a rural area with a good school.

MS also said that OW and her H were at the school play, but I have asked a couple of people and they say that XH was on his own, so she has told a complete lie and I'm not sure why or what to say about it...

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Thu 13-Dec-12 13:24:49

Well MS may be telling the truth does your neighbour know what that female looks like?

If she wasn't there I might just remind MS that Santa only brings presents for good children who don't make up stories.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Thu 13-Dec-12 13:28:05

Sorry re-read your post, not neighbour then, those people you asked.

Pickles77 Thu 13-Dec-12 13:33:47

Hi Skye just wanted to say hello smile

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Thu 13-Dec-12 18:26:13

Ooh it's Pickle hope your lovely DD is thriving and you all have an amazing Christmas, Pickle dog too!

Sorry for butting in Skye blush I'll get my coat.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 13-Dec-12 19:04:29

Hi Pickles! I keep meaning to PM you to see how you are doing? I havent seen you posting anywhere for a while..

captainmummy Fri 14-Dec-12 08:21:45

OW and her DH at the play? Wasn't it the school play? Most schools only have seating for the parents - even GP have to trade off with parents for seats.

Our infant/junior schools only made 2 tickets available per child - and I'm not sure about the validity of 'strangers' at a school nativity. Sounds odd to me. Maybe MS was mistaken, with the mass of strangers there.

Pickles77 Fri 14-Dec-12 09:54:15

Hi I'm not bad thanks. Pretty low but surviving. Glad ur well smile

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Fri 14-Dec-12 09:56:30

MS was mistaken, I e asked several people and he was on his own.

Yes it was two tickets per family. I booked two and left him to sort his own out, my argument being that we are two seperate families now.... If the mean two per child they should say so :-)

There were loads of spaces at the afternoon one though, it was the evening one that they could have sold more for.

It upset several parents actually as they charged £1 a ticket but I thought it was a good idea to raise a bit of money ? A d loads if people bought two tickets and then took their other kids with them and sat them on their laps as they couldn't get anyone to look after them. Then other parents complained About that....

All this school politics is new to me lol.

wheredidiputchristmas Fri 14-Dec-12 10:10:41

The one thing to learn about school politics is what ever the school does 'those' parents will complain and it will always be the same parents.

Glad you enjoyed MS play.

cenicienta Fri 14-Dec-12 11:24:52

Hi Skye. Just wanted to say don't assume MS is lying. I think at this age there can be a bit of a blurr between what is real and what isn't. Especially after all the changes this year. MS now has 2 sets of people in her life who are important to her, I wouldn't be surprised if in her mind things get a bit mixed up.

Yes try to help her to sort out what is true from what isn't, but at this age it's probably more helpful to see it as "confusion" rather than lying.

Where I live they don't do "Christmas" so no nativities, no carols, no mince pies... trying to recreate our own in the house but I'd give anything to see my dcs in a nativity play, even if they were just the sheep like I always was smile

captainmummy Fri 14-Dec-12 13:07:08

I didn;'t think MS was' lying' - maybe she sees OW with her daddy so much that she 'expects' her to be there, somewhere, wherever daddy is?

It's a good idea to do more than 1 play, IMO; I used to look after a neighbours same-age dc so she could watch one, then she'd (theoretically) do the same for me and my youngest. (Didn't allways turn out like that tho - busy time of year, yes I know but a favour returned should take precidence over shopping, i think....not bitter, not me)

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Fri 14-Dec-12 13:08:13

<Pops head round door, checking to see if blackcurrants has been in>

Hi Skye, hope the weekend gets off to a good start. Is it MS's last Friday of term or is she in all week next week? My DD has to stay on school premises until noon next Friday, they'll all be hyper, (6th form secondary), goodness knows what the infants will be like!

cenicienta it must be tough not being able to sample all the Christmas hullabaloo but you're well out of some of it. Am sure you'll give your DCs a flavour of it, (only ever a narrator, no special costume so a sheep would have been bliss! envy smile.

I'm still here! Morning all. I, too want to hear more about the play, Skye - they don't 'do' nativity plays here either (USA) and I'd love to see DS in one!

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sat 15-Dec-12 00:39:11

The play was called Hey Ewe! It was all about a sheep who was curious or something?! It featured Mary and Joseph, Angels, Kings etc so traditional cast with a different story...

MS was "village people" . I resisted the urge to dress her as a camp biker or cowboy grin and did the old dressing gown with tea towel on head trick.

It lasted for around twenty minutes but was lovely. They sang lots of songs. Most of them with a calypso type theme.... MS's tea towel fell off halfway through so she shoved it up her dress....

Had a weird thing today. Had an email come through by mistake for his business, addressed to Twunt and OW..... WTF does she have to do with his business?! It really threw me to see both of their names there together in a business email.... The statements have been coming every couple of weeks, this is the first time that its not been addressed to just him....

I know it's none if my business now but it's doing my head in not knowing WTF is happening sad

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Sat 15-Dec-12 10:46:43

Hello laydeez

Your DD's play sounds like a modern twist on an old theme I hope you clapped lots smile.

What was OW's degree in, (don't have to say here), was it anything remotely to do with ex's work or business oriented? Maybe she has invested in it as a sleeping partner? (!).

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Sat 15-Dec-12 10:47:33

Hastily adds, NOT that it should concern you, ignore detach etc.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sat 15-Dec-12 12:52:25

She is training as a bio scientist and qualifies in June

If she has put money into his business then she is mental. She will never see that again! It really threw me, but it is none of my business now. It's just so weird to see it. And when I did all his paperwork it was always gone in his name , I didn't put my name to anything.

It can and will, all go tits up at some point.

I had a meal out with friends last night and one if them is a lawyer and she says that I have acted throughout this with a lot of dignity and that I should be proud of myself. She said that I was amazing and that she would have lost the plot if it were her. She said that I was really pretty and friendly and lovely and that I deserved somebody nice who will treat me better than the Twunt did.

She was also a bit drunk lol

Well they do say "in vino, veritas" don't they? I'm sure she was all the more truthful for being a bit tipsy. You really have been amazing!

Now, Sky, we talked last weekend about your sat-sun cycle of getting trollyed then having a really crappy depressed Sunday - what are you going to do differently this weekend so you don't find yourself so down?

Allalonenow Sat 15-Dec-12 13:14:42

Hello there Skye, so pleased that you are able to be so positive about things, everything that your lawyer friend says about you is spot on I think!

I bet MS enjoyed being in her play, I hope she told your Ex about her recent stage success at great length, he is missing out on so many wonderful things.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sat 15-Dec-12 13:49:49

I'm taking MS to a kids Christmas party tonight, proper old fashioned games and Father Christmas and tea. It's lovely and we go every year. then I'm going home to watch a good movie on Sky.

Tomorrow I'm going to work all day and stick to it as I've got so much to do , I have to crack on with it. Tomorrow night I need to wrap my presents and write the few cards that I'm going to send.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Sat 15-Dec-12 14:05:45

You put me to shame Skye so much to do and can't get started today, no real plans except German market soon.

Your lawyer friend sounds lovely, it helps when you get a pat on the back.

Yeah, you're making me feel lazy too! We used to have a village Christmas Party where I grew up (v. rural) - party games and best dresses and crisps and cheese onna stick in a half-grapefruit, and then Father Christmas! It was wonderful and I hope you and mini-Skye have a wonderful, wonderful time!

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sat 15-Dec-12 14:49:03

This party is great! Proper old fashioned like when I was a kid. Very rural area, mostly farming families. It's lovely and MS's access with her dad has been arranged around it to make sure she could go.

It was the school Christmas Fayre last night and they have a "secrets" room. All the parents donate gifts and the kids go into the room on their own and choose a gift for £1 each for parents and grandparents etc.

My mum gave MS £2 and she has bought me and her dad a present each. She has bought her dad a diary she tells me.

tribpot Sat 15-Dec-12 14:51:05

Christ. I dread to think what the Twunt's diary would be like. The words 'poor me' written over and over on every page?

Glad you're enjoying yourself!

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sat 15-Dec-12 23:55:02

Lovely party tonight, pass the parcel, musical chairs, Okey Cokey, Musical bumps and statues,..... sausage rolls, fairy cakes, chocolate fingers, cheese & pineapple, Father Christmas, Balloons...

It was lovely and MS had a lovely time. As always, my emotions go from happiness at seeing her little face so lit up, to sadness as I remember how this event was always shared with her dad in the past, the tears well up, I take a deep breath.....

My friend came over at that point. She said that she was watching me across the room and she said she saw it go across my face, how it changed in an instant from happiness to despair..... I am very lucky to have some good friends who know me well.... I managed to keep a lid on it until i got home, then I was crying again.

Poor little MS said "Why are you crying NOW Mummy" which made me laugh, because I don't cry that much in front of her... I just told her that I wasn't feeling well because of my cold and that I was a bit sad. She said Dont be sad Mummy, I will make you better and rushed off to find her little doctors bag! So i cried a bit more!

I haven't written one card, wrapped one present, I know I have to crack on with it now, only 1 week left! I just don't want Christmas to happen really. I know that I have to be happy for MS's sake, and I will make it a special Christmas for her as always, but it saddens me so much, how we used to say how each Christmas would be better as she got older and now he is not around to share it with her and that is his choice... how could any man choose not to be with his child?!

I cant imagine, Skye. Glad you had a good party. And you never know when you might enjoy yourself this.Christmas, just with miniSkye. Dont give up on it!

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sun 16-Dec-12 18:37:17

Well, had a crap day. Sent MS off at 10am and went back to bed... I'm just wiped out with a cold and mild bug. So no work done again and more tears be ayes I just feel so low now that Christmas is nearly here.

Had cards today from his mum and brother , again both addressed just to me... I just find that odd because MS lives with me... I have texted XBIL to say that I'm not sending cards this year as my hearts not in it but I hope they have a good Christmas.

My MN Secret Santa gift arrived today, for MS so that has brightened my day. She will live the gifts .

AutumnNowBleakMidwinter Sun 16-Dec-12 18:45:45

Thinking of you Skye. I`m not in a good place myself, at the moment. Listening to all the Christmas songs, and thinking of Christmas`s past, but I`m forcing myself to go through the motions, as you will too.....x.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Sun 16-Dec-12 18:54:14

Bound not to feel festive when you've been coming down with something, take it easy. Mini Skye must have had the time of her life at the party, glad you took her to it.

This first Christmas post-divorce was always likely to be tricky, such an emotional time this year. While MS is not in earshot or sight, you can let go. I think at heart you're a fighter and will recover your natural joie de vivre, get fit and well and as soon as you can, look ahead.

Keep posting, if you like write here 3 things each day that made you smile. I saw that suggested on another thread once, it might help make it 'til you make it.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Sun 16-Dec-12 18:55:38

AutumnNow sending you and Skye thanks to brighten your evening.

AutumnNowBleakMidwinter Sun 16-Dec-12 20:49:31

Thank you Donk.......Oh, I can`t call a Patricia Hodge lookee likee......Donkey!! Thanks anyway.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sun 16-Dec-12 21:35:44

Autumn sorry you are feeling sad. It's so hard at this time of year. I thought I would be ok, but after ten years of being with somebody at Christmas, it suddenly seems so hard to be on my own again, even though i have Mini Skye.

Donkeys thanks for the support as always...

I've had a stupid text argument with twunt tonight, as he texted something that made me feel like a bad mother, and saying that we should put on a united front for MS and be friends. So I just lost it and texted back and gave him what for as to exactly why I despise him and dont want to be friends with him because he hurt me too much.

He did actually text back that I wouldnt believe him, but he is struggling too, that everything is incredibly hard for him and that he has to live with it. that he knows that he did wrong and that he is not proud of anything that has happened. He says that he is full of remorse for whats happened.....

I just told him that he deserves to feel bad because he is a heartless shit.

So its still all poor me with him, although it is the first time that he has actually admitted that what he did was wrong.....

i told him not to contact me again unless it concerns arrangements for x.

I will make things good for Mini Skye at Christmas, and I will move on at some point. I just need to get a grip and accept that it is going to take time

OliviaPeaceOnMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 16-Dec-12 21:58:10

Hi there
have removed a RL name for you

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Sun 16-Dec-12 21:59:51

Have PMed you Skye. If it is the first time Twunt has admitted to cocking things up, it is poor consolation but an admission of sorts. You are wise not to engage with him and only contact re: DD.

Ah AutumnNow, time is cruel!! 27 years' ago there was a likeness of sorts!

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sun 16-Dec-12 22:23:34

Previously he has said sorry for hurting me, but this is the first time that he has actually admitted that what he did was wrong and that he feels bad about it.

He deserves to feel bad, the man who sat on my sofa and said "the trouble with me is that Im just too nice"..... shortly before walking out on his child....

Its ok, but Im still not entirely sure what he is sorry for... everything presumably.

and no I dont believe him that its all so hard for him, because this is what he wanted, this is what he chose to do, this is the life that he wanted.

and MS came home and said that OW came over today and decorated the Xmas tree with her and daddy. That woman is involved in every aspect of his life now and of my daughter's too. and there is not one damn thing that I can do about it.

tribpot Sun 16-Dec-12 23:54:35

A New Year's Resolution for you, skye: you need to work on making your Sundays more tolerable. It brings you down so dreadfully - I perfectly understand why but it isn't going to change, you just need to knuckle down to it.

And you and Twunt need to move on. He has no right to ask you to be friends with him - as long as you are civil, and mini-Skye doesn't even feel she couldn't invite you both to a special occasion (I still have flashbacks to the number of uni friends who couldn't invite both parents to graduation) then that'll do.

You've fed his ego, though - by letting him know you're still so hurt.

I find the behaviour of his family with the Xmas cards distasteful. If you do send them a card next year I would send it from mini-Skye only.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Mon 17-Dec-12 00:07:55

Im not civil as I don't see him to speak to him. MS has never asked why I don't speak to him, she just rushes out the door when he arrives.

She has asked if he can come to her birthday party which will be in March. I have said yes. He can come but I don't want him to come anywhere near me if he does.

He has no right to expect us to be friends, that is just to make him feel better. I thought that he was my best friend, in the way that a partner is supposed to be, but he replaced me with OW and then once she was in that position, the end of the marriage swiftly followed.

He has had a typical Mid Life Crisis, 48 year old head turned by 31 year old woman. Hopefully he will live to regret it and realise that he screwed up the best thing that ever happened to him (his family).

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Mon 17-Dec-12 09:14:49

I'd forgotten, if I ever knew, it was such an age gap. Not that it makes any difference in terms of disloyalty and hurt.

The best friend aspect is hard to get over too. Best friends don't treat each other that way.

Midwife99 Mon 17-Dec-12 09:20:56

Still ...... You have to find a way forward for DD's sake. This thread is called onwards & upwards Skye. Text wars & fights about your break up are so destructive & exhausting to everyone. And also pointless. You need to let go of who did what & whose fault it was & what your exh does with his life & who he spends his time with. Your job now is to make DD's childhood a happy one.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Mon 17-Dec-12 10:07:54

I cannot help the way that I feel and I am really struggling. It's also the twelve month anniversary of my aunts death. This is not a good time of year for me.

I know that I'm depressed and I'm trying to deal with it.

Midwife99 Mon 17-Dec-12 10:20:34

Maybe return to the GP before Christmas for review?The ADs aren't working & the counselling hasn't made much difference to how you feel. Maybe different or higher dose ADs & a better counsellor? CBT might be more effective than endlessly talking about why you split up? Your GP can refer you for that free.

Hugs for you, lady. Things are going toget better, but you are going to have things to grasp at that happiness. For a start, how about having something you look.forward to doing, on your own, every Sunday? Would be a dance class for me - something that you really enjoy and makes you feel great, gets you out, and has nothing to do.with your ex husband.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Mon 17-Dec-12 10:59:09

At the moment I'm snowed under with work that has to be fine by the end of January. Then I can have a breather and take some time to do nice things on Sundays instead. Plus we will go every other weekend which will be nice to have her myself some Sundays. And plan to go shopping swimming etc on the weekends I don't have her.

My counsellor booked me onto another block of six weeks in order to work on me and not talk about him.

I've just decided its not worth putting up the Christmas tree this year. I have to rearrange the whole room to fit it in and we are busy every night except Thursday, then Friday to Sunday she's with her dad, Monday to Thursday at my parents then Thursday to Sunday she's at her dads again. If I put it up we won't be home to see it....

She's decorated my mums and her dads and hasn't mentioned our tree at all. I wish I'd put it up a week ago now.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Mon 17-Dec-12 11:03:29


DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Mon 17-Dec-12 11:06:14

I know you're raging. Think bc is right about finding a stress buster though I suspect something like plate smashing rather than dancing would be more therapeutic right now.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Mon 17-Dec-12 11:09:06

I might sign up with the sports hall up the road. It has a small gym and is open weekends. I could go there every other weekend when she is with her dad and go swimming with her when I have her.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Mon 17-Dec-12 11:10:17

That sounds great.

Midwife99 Mon 17-Dec-12 11:17:59

Oh please put the tree up!! It'll make it feel much more cheerful for you & DD! I can recommend Zumba for cheering up type exercise!!

AutumnNowBleakMidwinter Mon 17-Dec-12 11:44:54

Skye, if you don`t feel able to put the big tree up, there are some really lovely small ones, in pink and other lovely colours in Poundstretcher, and the other cheap shops, for just a few pounds. Fibre optic too, so you literally just have to plug and go. Mini could have it in her own room, and that will make it even more special. Or perhaps just some lights around her bed, and a few other bits and bobs around, but I think you may regret not marking the occasion. I managed to do three trees eventually. I have a large house so it`s all or nowt. Two lovely three foot fibre optics in my favourite lilac, one in the hall and one in the dining room. Then I fought for hours with a six foot silver one - I`m 5ft 2ins! - with purple lights and baubles, and then various other lights, and decorations around. It all looks stunning - a bit like Blackpool Hallucinations! - but do you know what?......I feel so much better today for doing it. Still emotional, but happier IYSWIM.......Oh, and I`m now 5ft!!

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Mon 17-Dec-12 14:17:04

It can help... (wheedle)...

captainmummy Mon 17-Dec-12 19:15:12

Def, def do some decorating of something, skye - even if it's just a big vase with lots of twigs in, with a few lights strung round. It's what I did for the 1st few christmases with just me and the dc. I didn't have a tree, but greenery from the garden worked almost as well, and looked xmassy.

tribpot Mon 17-Dec-12 20:23:43

Yes - sod the tree if you can't face it but definitely get some lights up, some baubles around the place and ENJOY.

Allalonenow Mon 17-Dec-12 20:51:17

Hey there Skye,
sorry to see that you are struggling, I know I am too, as it will be my first Christmas alone, and it's not easy is it?

Don't feel you have to have a tree, how about putting the baubles in a couple of glass bowls, or a string of lights in a large vase? I might just have a platter with chocolate coins and fruit, as it needs so little effort.

I haven't managed to write a single card yet, so I think you are wonderful for all the festive things you are doing with MS.

Take care.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Mon 17-Dec-12 20:59:48

I should have done it a week ago but can't get into the loft without help as the hook broke that gets the ladder down. So my neighbour keeps promising to help then doesn't... My dad said he'd do it but hasnt.

I feel like the moment has gone now. I used to have a three foot tree but I think we got rid of it. Shame be ayes I could probably slap that one up somewhere. The little fibre optic one broke last year.

All my wrapping paper is up in the loft too as I buy it cheap each year after Christmas! Also Mini Skye's advent things, skating musical penguin advent countdown... Don't ask lol.

Next year I will get it all down on 1 December!

Feeling a bit brighter now but been quite tearful again today. Went to my parents for tea.

Mini Skye threw a total wobbly because I wouldn't let her eat sweets before tea. Declared that she would never eat tea not ever again...

CremeEggThief Mon 17-Dec-12 21:59:55

I couldn't face Christmas cards this year, so I'm not sending any.

Everything is bought and wrapped- including some presents I bought for myself. At least that way, I know I'll have something to open on Christmas morning!

Hoping to get a tree tomorrow, which is tricky without a car, which is kind of why I've left it so late. Two buses and a taxi back sad. Surprisingly, DS hasn't questioned or got upset about why we haven't got one yet smile.

No right or wrong here, just do what feels right for you.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Mon 17-Dec-12 23:51:26

Posted by Bloomoon on Lou's thread:

I read something recently that helped me, and it might help you and Wobbly and Skye too: Tough times don't last. Tough people do.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 09:48:37

My mortgage offer has finally been issued.....

Obviously the paperwork still needs sorting, but hopefully soon in the New Year, my mortgage will become my own and I will be £250 better off a month and will not slide into debt as I will be able to afford to live then.

Fab news, skye! smile

wheredidiputchristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 09:53:19

That's good news Skye, New year New start.

tribpot Tue 18-Dec-12 10:33:25

Good news skye!

captainmummy Tue 18-Dec-12 10:48:01

Excellent Skye - you can breathe again (for a bit!)

One less thing to stress about.

Allalonenow Tue 18-Dec-12 10:51:28

Great news Skye, what a relief for you, and a good omen for a bright future.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 11:12:25

It is fantastic news and a weight off my mind. The valuation needs to be done, but the Loan to Value rate is pretty good as Im borrowing less than half of the value of the house, so that shouldnt be a problem.

well I havent cried yet today. It's only 11am though so still plenty of time, lol.

I'm working at home this morning, then having my hair done this afternoon as I had to rearrange the appointment from when I was sick. Having eyebrows waxed on Thursday, so will be all lovely looking for Christmas. Going out for a meal with friends on Friday, then back to our local pub as its Factory Friday. Trying to look forward to that.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Tue 18-Dec-12 11:25:28

Now Skye, good things DO happen to good people, that's brilliant.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 12:08:18

I just received a Christmas card from friends up in Scotland, in Caithness. We havent visited them since MS was born, but we used to go up there every couple of years.

I decided to ring them to explain what has happened, as XH obviously hasn't and it's the wife who is an ex work colleague of his, so more his friends than mine, although I have known the wife for years myself..

Her H is lovely. He is 60, going blind, now wears hearing aids he tells me. I explained the situation and he said that his first wife left him for his best friend. He said that he would go to work, then come home again and shut himself in his bedroom and cry for hours. I know the feeling, I said! He said that you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel, but it is there and its just a process that you have to go through because if you dont' go through it, you will never get there...

He has been happily married to his third wife for several years now.

I'm glad that I rang him because he has made me feel better after chatting to him. His wife is going to ring me back hopefully.

Oh that's nice, Skye - it must be so hard to see from where you are, but I know lots of people ten years into happy second marriages - I honestly think that things will come right, I swear it!

It's good to reach out to people.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Tue 18-Dec-12 12:16:54

That is so kind Skye, fancy him opening up like that. I hope you felt encouraged.

(Caithness, the land of big sky and trees leaning sideways!!).

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 13:10:38

They used to live near Wick, the first time we went to see them we stayed at John O Groats and then visited them on the way back down. Then they moved to Midclyth and that was as high as we went.

We used to go to the Isle of Skye on holiday then visit them afterwards. XH loved Scotland and took me there the first year that we were together. We went to Edinburgh,and a few other places, then Lake District and Blackpool on the way home. He suggested it, I got excited, then he said he couldnt afford to go, so I paid for the accommodation and the fuel... should have known then really shouldn't I?!

We went to the Isle of Skye twice. A beautiful place and I was looking forward to taking Mini Skye there one day as a family. Still can I suppose! May wait til she is a bit older though so that she can really appreciate the mist and rain beautiful scenery.

Talking of omens! my engagement ring had to be enlarged as it was too small. Typical of XH, he got a size R when I had told him if he ever intended to surprise me he should get a size S..... anyway..... the ring had to be made bigger and they stretched it very thin.... We got engaged in March, married in October. The ring snapped in half around June.... I said then maybe it was a bad sign! The jeweller replaced the shank and it ended up being thicker than my wedding ring. i said then that the ring would last a life time. It certainly will now because its not being worn!

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Tue 18-Dec-12 13:37:30

How odd about the ring! Definitely an omen!

T'is I, Donkeys btw, DS stumbled onto my MN nn and I've had to name change rapidly - still seasonal!

AutumnNowBleakMidwinter Tue 18-Dec-12 14:23:02

Oh hells bells, I couldn`t bring myself to say Donkey, I`m certainly not saying Ox. Will it be Ass next? Are you going for the hat trick? Can I call you Miss Hodge?

Great news about your mortgage and general finances Skye. People always say money isn`t everything, and of course it isn`t, but it certainly helps when it`s one less thing to worry about.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Tue 18-Dec-12 14:28:11

grin I hadn't thought that far ahead Autumn! Fwiw I thought your name was so poignant, then when you added "BleakMidwinter" it was even sadder, which is why I don't use it.

Some people who say, money isn't everything, presumably don't have to worry about it... but of course it isn't the be all and end all.

Must have given you a real boost Skye now enjoy your pampering this afternoon.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 14:36:37

Just had another call from the financial advisor to say that they have done a desktop valuation based in recent sales so they don't even need to come out!


Enjoy your spa-y pampering. I'm dead jealous smile

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Tue 18-Dec-12 18:56:18

Are you pleased with your hair, hope you spent a pleasant time and what good news about the valuation.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 19:02:15

My hair is now red instead of blonde. Spur of the moment decision. Again!

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Tue 18-Dec-12 19:09:39

Wow, go Skye!

captainmummy Tue 18-Dec-12 20:46:03

What's it called ? the 'divorce' haircut, or something like? We all do it, change our outer selves, as our lives change. It's a good thing -and i bet you look stunning. What does MS think?

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 20:57:40

MS didn't say a word, lol. (just like her dad, he never noticed either...)...

So last time I went to the hairdresser I chopped half my hair off and this time I changed the colour....

my hairdresser laughed and said " I love it when you are in this sort of mood - who cares, what's the worst that can happen" ! (I said that because she was steering me towards brown but I wanted red and said sod it, do it!).

next time I will have a grade 2 or something drastic, lol.

I had tea at my mum's again tonight, my cousin and her kids came to tea and we had a lovely chat and the girls all played lovely together.

I am feeling a bit more upbeat again, no tears today....

I did email twunt to advise him that the mortgage offer has come through and that my solicitor will be in touch in the new year. He replied - Well done on the mortgage and I hope it makes things a bit easier for you" patronizing twat. I resisted the urge to text abuse back......

Well done on resisting your petty demons - it must be your inner gorgeousness shining through!

Look at the things that make you happy: seeing your DD happy, seeing your family and friends, doing a little something for you. This is the stuff you want to focus on in 2013. This is the way out of feeling bad.

tribpot Tue 18-Dec-12 22:22:59

Va va voom! Great choice of hair colour. Ds never notices when I have mine cut either and he's extremely observant in the main. I just don't think they look at us that way.

Have you got someone to get the stuff down out of the loft for you? There's more stuff than just the tree I think. Don't be afraid just to ask outright for help; I have to do it quite often because my DH is in a wheelchair, so if I need a curtain pole putting up (for example) I ask a friend to help. They can only say sorry it's not a good time.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 18-Dec-12 23:50:53

I have asked my neighbour repeatedly. She said she would do it today, then didnt..... my dad said he would and hasnt...

the pole to pull down the ladder is broken and if I get on a stepladder then I am afraid that the ladder will hit me, so it needs two people to do it for safety until its fixed...

There is more stuff, all my wrapping paper is up there, all the musical snowglobes and lovely Christmas things that are up there. DD did say tonight that the neighbours have their tree up too, I think she is now sad that ours isnt up, maybe if I can get the neighbour to get it down tomorrow, then we can do it when she comes home from her dads tomorrow night.

I suppose Im trying to cancel Christmas and if its not in my face looking at me then i can pretend its not happening!

Still havent wrapped one present!

I just sacked a client! I have had nothing but grief off of one person since I took them on. i received yet another email at 9.30pm tonight so I have emailed him back and copied other committee members on it and explained that I simply don't need the harrassment and stress that these email are causing by intruding on my evenings.

I have never ever sacked a client before, but this man is just impossible to work with and I have made a vow to remove all stress from my life in future, so he is first to go!

captainmummy Wed 19-Dec-12 08:13:17

Wow Skye - now that you're a red-head, you've caught a spark!

dondon33 Wed 19-Dec-12 11:21:13

Your hair sounds lovely Skye, I'm jealous! I loved my bright red hair but because I have large areas of grey thanks Mum for the early gene it was too much upkeep.

I understand your feelings about Xmas - I've felt that way myself a few times but at some point it kind of just bites you on the arse and you're forced to join in no matter how much you don't want to/don't really feel like it - MS's excitement will rub off on you.
You'll get through it a stronger person Skye, you really will.
Fab news about your mortgage too.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Wed 19-Dec-12 11:24:17

If neighbour and Dad are too busy can you ask a friend if someone in their family who's tall enough to give a hand could pop by? I'd look pathetic for once and beg my neighbour 'for mini Skye'.

Yep, so would I. Bat your eyelids and swoosh your shiny hair for good measure, too!

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Wed 19-Dec-12 16:24:24

{{{ swoosh }}}

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Wed 19-Dec-12 18:42:53

Ok so the tree is down from the loft, and waiting for DD to come home from XH to decorate it.

It does make it feel like Christmas.

Just had a major sob though because in one of the boxes was a pile of "husband and wife" cards from the past few years. Lovely cards from him with fancy poems in about how lucky he was to have me and how wonderful I am blah blah blah...... Also the first Christmas card I ever gave him, in which I wrote, Hopefully the first of many.....

That did upset me......

Mini Skye is due home any minute, I asked him not to be late as she was very tired this morning. We should be able to do the tree before bedtime.

I hope it's a lovely time - get some Christmas music on and have a lovely girl's night!

dondon33 Wed 19-Dec-12 19:21:49

Yey! I hope MS and you had fun putting it all together.

{{big hug}} Skye put the cards out of sight or better still burn them HIS words, I hope, will soon mean very little to you.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Wed 19-Dec-12 19:26:02

Well done Skye, I didn't feel properly Christmassy until ours was up, in spite of cards dropping through the letter box since 1st December.

AutumnCameUponTheMidnightClear Wed 19-Dec-12 19:28:07

Well done you! Can you get a pic of Mini with the tree, and put it up?

Hey dondon......How`s the nips?......Brrr.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Wed 19-Dec-12 20:28:17

I've tried uploading a pic of the tree but it won't at the moment.

I'm glad I did it, Mini Skye was so thrilled when she walked in and saw the tree and said Mummy who is going to decorate it, have you been editing especially for me to come home :-)

She said tonight that XH is going to OW and her H for Christmas, no surprise there.... And no doubt to the football with them on Boxing Day, so once again puts them ahead of MS. Sounded good in mediation though didnt it, No, you have her, she will see your family who are coming down..... (We always spent Boxing Day with his family and never saw my family! so I was prepared to let her go that day but of course it didnt suit him)

Still, he has set a precedent hasn't he..... His own choice..

He said that I was ruining her Christmas as he was prepared to put on a "united front" but I won't...... Not sure what he had in mind, coming round to my parents for turkey maybe? Play Happy Families?

He lives in a little planet of his own really doesn't he!

Still, his loss is my gain. And MS will have a Christmas to remember surrounded by her family while her dad spends it with his "genuine friends".

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Wed 19-Dec-12 20:29:03

Editing = waiting!

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Wed 19-Dec-12 20:40:00

She must have been thrilled to find it waiting smile did she remember the snow globes from last year?

dondon33 Wed 19-Dec-12 21:33:45

Hey dondon......How`s the nips?......Brrr smile
Autumn still freezing blush but I've still not had any ones eye out yet so that's a plus.

Aw bless her Skye, glad she enjoyed doing it.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Wed 19-Dec-12 21:42:52

She was thrilled to see all the musical snow globes too.

Sadly the musical skating penguin thingy is no longer skating but it is shill musical .....

Mini Skye wanted to go to sleep in her uniform "to save getting dressed in the morning" I do like her thinking.

I just hope that she doesn't get in my bed at 2.30am like she did this morning. She smacked me round the head with her cuddly toys, then told me off for making a "sleeping noise"..... then wanted to put the tv on, I said no so she went to sleep.!

tribpot Wed 19-Dec-12 21:53:54

Surely the truly charitable thing to do would be for you (and your family) to go round to the OW and H's house as well on Xmas Day, so you could be one big happy and united catastrophe family together?! Sounds brilliant.

Beyond that it sounds like he's figured out if he just says 'I want to be reasonable and put up a united front' he can then later claim to have tried actually to be reasonable. Yet has put forward no actual suggestions about how this united front should be achieved.

Glad mini-skye was so pleased about the tree.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Wed 19-Dec-12 22:45:17

Trib, you got it. It's the first I have heard about a united front for Christmas... No suggestions as to how to achieve this. he hasnt even said he will ring her on Christmas Day!

But yes, great idea to join them armed with mountain of mobile bills just in case seeing it in black and white might make a difference to her H

I wonder if OW's H remembers that when OW was married to first H tgat she used to stay with him and she told her then H that H2 was just a friend and it was convenient for work......

No doubt her parents will be there too. Very cosy, just the five of them... an old fashioned family Christmas, mum dad, daughter and her H and her best friend...

I wish the shit would hurry up and hit the fan, I'm getting impatient!

tribpot Wed 19-Dec-12 22:48:00

I know, it's a shame it's taking so long but in some ways the more detached you are emotionally from the whole miserable lot of them, the better you will be able to enjoy the moment when it comes. So actually they are doing you a favour by stringing this out until you are feeling more robust. wink

OW seems to have a gift for finding highly gullible men. Perhaps she could put this to better use as a con artist?

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Wed 19-Dec-12 22:49:23

On an e tiredly different note, since having sky movies I have watched/recorded

War horse
Final destination 5
Mr poppers penguins
One day
National lampoons Christmas vacation
Puss in boots
Jayne Eyre

I've seen a couple if them before but the rest are all new.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Thu 20-Dec-12 09:03:17

Morning Skye

Was it nice coming down to the tree this morning, I'm sure mini Skye is proud of her handiwork.

DS and I sat in front of "Gladiator" (Russell Crowe) yesterday for the dozenth time! What was "Contagion" like? Any good or too doomy?

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 20-Dec-12 10:32:54

Autumn sad about the dream you mentioned on Lou's thread. I had one about twunt a couple of weeks ago and it was so vivid. We spent the day together and everything was lovely and then he was trying to come back to me and OW was physically stopping him. It was awful, to wake up and realise again that he really was gone, that I really am divorced. I know that he didn't die, but to me the shock and grief of losing him, was as if he did.

To me he was the love of my life and although he treated me badly in the end, I just can't switch off those feelings. I so wish that I could.

I have never met anybody before him, who felt like that about me, or me about them. He will never meet anybody who loved him like I did.

Also, he will never be able to hold down a relationship unless he sorts out his issues, because every relationship hits problems. He ran out on me when I was going through a very stressful time and instead of supporting me, he made it all about him.

But I know, that because of my ability to love, I will meet somebody else at some point, to give that love to. and hopefully they will love and respect me back.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 20-Dec-12 10:38:36

It was nice coming in to the tree this morning and Mini Skye is very pleased with it. There is a sticker in the window saying Father Christmas stop here and she said that we must take it to Nana's house or he will leave the presents here instead.

and if he can't find Nana's house, then we will have to go to Father Christmas' house to get them!

I hope that Christmas hits the twunt damn hard. I hope he sits and cries on Christmas Day because he is missing out on his daughter opening her stocking and her presents. I hope that he has a miserable day and wonders how the hell he managed to fuck up his life so badly.

I intend to drink lots of Bucks Fizz in the morning, enjoy a nice bottle of sparkling Rose that was given to me for my 40th, help mum prep the veg, maybe go for a little walk with MS after dinner if its dry, then play some of her new games with her (3D snakes and Ladders and Operation!) that reminds me, better get some batteries for that one....

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Thu 20-Dec-12 13:09:08

You can hope he'll feel sad at missing out but why would he Skye, he's got what he wanted. I know it beggars belief when you think you know somebody but that's him, gone with the wind.

You said earlier you were trying to cancel Christmas. You've really made a superhuman effort these past 24 hours. Don't give him head space, focus on mini Skye and your family.

Can you blot out the pain with a few glasses of bubbly, only in the short-term. Do I think you'll eventually come up roses, smiling and happy in a new relationship, yes I really do.

tribpot Thu 20-Dec-12 14:40:58

Yes, I think he will have a great time. He can mope about feeling sorry for himself with OW and her H dancing attendance on him. He may be moved to note it all could have been better if only you had been prepared to put up a united front (reasons for this left unspecified).

Don't give him headspace. Of course he will milk this - as he does every situation - to play the victim. Bollocks to him.

Midwife99 Thu 20-Dec-12 16:03:48

Don't waste energy thinking about what he'll be doing - give energy to what YOU'LL be doing & enjoy it on your terms.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Thu 20-Dec-12 19:17:46

Good evening Skye did you get your beauty treatment sorted as planned, now you'll be all set for that meal out with your friends on Friday night.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 20-Dec-12 19:33:19

yes, my eybrows and my moustache are now waxed. My eyebrows now better match my hair as they were too light before..

So yes, I am all ready to party tomorrow night, new dress, new bag, all in my favourite electric blue colour, plenty of hair glitter,

BUT somebody just told me that the world ends at midnight tonight, when I thought it was midnight tomorrow, so I wish I hadnt bothered now grin

ooh You sound so glam, Skye - I'm dead jealous! Hope you have a super night! xxx

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Thu 20-Dec-12 20:12:22

There may be trouble ahead... in which case Skye will be perfectly co-ordinated!

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 20-Dec-12 22:26:20

I need a bit of advice.....

I've had a worrying conversation with DD again tonight. I swore at the cat when it sat on her advent calendar and melted it.... DD said to me, don't say the Fuh word Mummy, like OW said to me. Its the first time she has mentioned it for a while.

So I said to her , what did she say to you and why did she say it. DD then said, that she had been rude to OW's cats, while XH and OWH were at football because they were the only ones who could mend the ball, and she said that OW had said fucking hell, then smacked her round the head, then slammed the door, then when DD tried to get in the room, she pushed her out and down the stairs....

Seriously... I don't honestly believe that this happened, BUT, it is an incredible story to make up, although DD does have a fantastic imagination. As far as I know, they dont even have any cats.. they have 1 dog...

I told her that I would tell daddy and I said that I would have to tell her teachers. She said no dont tell daddy, I will tell him.

I said to her, you mustn't make stories up, I won't be cross if you tell me you have made it up, but I really need to know as OW could be in a lot of trouble... She said that she wasn't making it up...

I have asked XH if he has ever left DD alone with OW and he said no... so I have not taken it any further, as I thought that what probably happened was the OW said FH, as we are all inclined to do at times and that it wasnt specifically aimed at DD.

What the hell do I do now though? Obviously if it were true, then I have a major problem and what the hell to do about it? BUT, if its not true, then I have a DD who is making up huge stories that could actually ruin somebody's life.. (OW or not, I wouldnt want to falsely accuse her).

Advice needed please?!

tribpot Thu 20-Dec-12 22:36:22

Just remind me how much time he's actually spending with her over Xmas, skye? I'm wondering if you can delay a further convo with her about it until she's back at school and you can ask a teacher to speak to her.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 20-Dec-12 22:42:15

she is with him tomorrow night and saturday night, back sunday, then with him next thursday and friday and saturday..

I just can't believe that it is true, but don't know how to handle getting her to understand what she is saying if its not true...

obviously if it were true, then it would cause major problems, because who would XH believe.... the bitter ex wife, or the lovely best friend.....

tribpot Thu 20-Dec-12 22:48:34

It seems like it is possible that she has been left with OW and she doesn't like it, although nothing of the sort she describes has happened. She could be making it up for that reason.

It could be because she senses your dislike for the OW and wants to please you.

Or it could have a grain of truth in it. I think it would be relatively unusual for her to have made up/elaborated upon the same story twice, so far apart in time. One of my nephews is a complete fibber and I remember him seeming quite shocked when my ds repeated a story he'd told him the day before (about the horses in the field next door being able to fly) back to him.

Because he's such a tosser, it's hard to see how you bring it up in such a way that won't get mini-skye three days of emotional pressure to withdraw her story (he will of course side with the OW). I think I would press for more details tomorrow - as casually as possible - to see if the story sounds credible. Presumably he will be mostly doing family things with her, i.e. his MIL will be around as well? There doesn't seem to be a great deal of likelihood of her being left with the OW on this break?

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Thu 20-Dec-12 22:59:42

No. I think this weekend he will take her to see his mum, and maybe Father Christmas.

After Christmas I would imagine he will take her to visit his sister as her son is down for a few days, so hopefully contact with OW will be minimal.

I do try and watch what I say about OW in front of MS.

It's just all so difficult and the last thing that any of us need..

AutumnCameUponTheMidnightClear Thu 20-Dec-12 23:44:43

Do you mention OW and her H, or does MS bring them into the conversation? It is very likely that she has picked up on your feelings, and is showing her support, albeit in a rather dramatic way. I would mirror part of the story back to her Skye, changing some of the details....i.e. "What did OW say you did to the "dogs".....or "Which "leg" did she smack you on". Ask a few gentle, but leading questions. I can`t see this tale being completely true, not least because she would be more reluctant to leave you, if there was a possibility of her being badly treated. You have said that she is always happy to go with her daddy, knowing that OW is involved. That said, children`s stories often have some basis in reality.

Does her school have a counsellor, or a teacher who has had some specialist training?

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Fri 21-Dec-12 00:08:59

Tonight she just brought it up because I swore at the cat without thinking....

I talked to a classroom assistant when she said it before and she said that if MS said anything like it at school then it would be recorded in their child protection book...

She has a very vivid imagination, will play for hours with her toys making up games and stories.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Fri 21-Dec-12 00:12:46

Well you could start off by talking about pets in a vague way with ex and see if any cats get a mention, (tries to think of how casual, random conversation about pets would crop up when you have trouble being in the same room as him). Future pets for mini Skye? Allergies?

There was the thing about OW attending the concert recently, wasn't there. It may not be deliberate lying, but some kind of... embroidering of truth, to elicit a response from you?

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Fri 21-Dec-12 00:40:31

I don't speak to the XH ever. I don't see him ever. if I need to talk it will have to be on the phone.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Fri 21-Dec-12 15:05:33

well, I have painted my nails and done my hair and makeup. Have to go and get Mini Skye, then take her to her cheerleading class, then XH will pick her up at 5.30 and I can put on my dress and my shoes that I cant walk in and crack open the vodka :-)

going out at 7pm for a meal, about 20 of us I think now, and then back to our local to join the builders etc for factory friday.. although I doubt that many of them will be standing by the time that we get back there, lol.

Feeling quite bright. Will miss MS while she is with her dad for 2 nights, for the first time (as he cancelled the last two times it was meant to happen).

I have printed up a year planner today and marked EOW on it and emailed it to him. I have made it fair so she is with him on Fathers Day and me on Mothers Day etc and asked him to let me know if its suitable for him.

I am angry again now. Who TF does he think he is to criticise me for being the same person that I have always been - ie, untidy, sarcastic, emotional, stressy with work... I have been that same person since the day he met me, then suddenly 10 years later its not good enough for him....

Well it will be good enough for somebody else! I can carry on building up my business, pay my own way, go on holiday on my own, make a wonderful future for Mini Skye.

I am strong, independent and I do not need him or any other twat to make my life complete. although I may try and pull the local plumber tonight ;-)

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Fri 21-Dec-12 15:24:22

That's better Skye feistiness is what you need to get you through. thanks.

Well done marking up a 2013 year planner too. Just drink milk before you go out and water before bedtime! Keep on keeping on, you can do this.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Fri 21-Dec-12 15:25:34

Plumbers are so good with their hands I've found.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Fri 21-Dec-12 17:32:33

Great advice on another Rel thread, btw x

dondon33 Fri 21-Dec-12 19:27:49

Hope you enjoy yourself tonight Skye and I hope the plumber does too ;)

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sat 22-Dec-12 04:11:21

Well, the plumber wasnt out :-(

The evening started well but ended up bad.....

There's been trouble brewing between a couple if girls and ice tried to stay out of it. Tonight, one if them came up to me and started having a go about what my problem is with her. I stayed diplomatic and thought I had sorted things with her..... But it did upset me. She then went crying to her sister and friend that I'd said things that I hadn't a d then as she left, the friend had a go at me.

She was shouting right in my face that i had upset her friend and I put my hand up to ward her off and told her to F off and leave me alone. She then said dont tell me to F off, who do you think you are. I said its got nothing to do with you, me and her sorted it so just stay out of it. She then pushed me so I told her again to F off.

I then burst into tears and just sobbed and sobbed while a couple of other women , friends of mine verbally laid into her...

I did nothing to deserve her attack and it has really upset me.

wheredidiputchristmas Sat 22-Dec-12 08:16:17

Sorry your night ended badly Skye, (but well done for standing your ground). And your friend supported you.

Sounds like the girl who started it is a bit of a stirrer, and making things up to make her the 'victim'.

Hope you are feeling better today.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Sat 22-Dec-12 10:26:36

Drink fuelled paranoia or simple stirring, never pretty. Ignore idiots like that, Skye, who knows why she and her lovely sister and mate piled in.

What are your plans for today?

dondon33 Sat 22-Dec-12 11:52:03

Ah no Skye, what a shit end to your night sad

Where I'm from we call the Friday before xmas 'black eye Friday' there's always trouble from people who've drank way too much (finished work early, celebrating hols from work and the festivities) and simply can't handle it and often it's big mouthed, edgy women who are to blame.

Glad you enjoyed the night prior to that shame about the plumber though

some people really are tools, aren't they? sorry your night had a bad end, hope you're not suffering today!

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sat 22-Dec-12 15:40:34

This trouble has been going on for months between two ex sisters in law. Everybody is taking sides and its all got ridiculous. The girl had a go at me then told her friends a pack of lies about what I said which meant that her friend had a go at me.....

It's made everything ten times worse. I have to live here and go out socially here and pass these bloody women on the school run every day.

I've tried to keep out if it, but one of the SIL's is my friend and neighbour so of course I'm going to take her "side" against the other one (who has never been nice to me anyway!)

I've been hanging on by a thread recently and have battled my way out of sliding into a real depression.

I hate atmospheres but I'm not going to speak to these women again.

tribpot Sat 22-Dec-12 16:41:29

What a horrible experience sad But the best thing you can do is simply stay out of it all (so you pass them on the school run, so what) and remind yourself it is nothing to do with you. The feud between the two SILs is not something you can give headspace to - just more toxic crap you don't need.

I would agree with dondon, Friday before Xmas is always a night of irritation, overcrowding and too much boozing (often on an empty stomach). Brings out the worst in people.

AutumnCameUponTheMidnightClear Sat 22-Dec-12 17:20:01

Sod em Skye, you`ve got enough of your own stuff going on without getting involved in anyone else`s.

Hey Dondon - Nippy! - you talking about Cumbria?

captainmummy Sat 22-Dec-12 18:24:02

Soundslike a typical friday night in a small place, Skye! It's like Emmerdale, the only place to go out--and gossip-- is the pub, the church, or the schoolplayground. Most of these people don;t really have a life, they have to embroider their own. My sister does this, her life is so boring in her small village that she has to blow everything up out of all proportion, to make it slightly exciting to be her.

Ignore it, you have plenty enough excitment in your life at the mo. Don't let it get to you, or depress you.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sat 22-Dec-12 18:42:13

It's been going on for months and now just about everybody is involved in it.

This girl lost her father and she uses it as an excuse to get sympathy. Kept telling me that her problems were bigger than mine and that my life will get better but hers won't.

Everybody's problems are personal and important to them and its not a competition. Every time I see this girl I speak, she doesn't then last night had a go at me wanting to know what my problem is... Then told a pack of lies to set her friend on me.

I told her to just leave me alone because I've had enough to deal with but she just twists that as me saying that my problems are more important than hers...

I'm sick of it now.

dondon33 Sat 22-Dec-12 20:57:54

Ah don't give it any more thought Skye, they're not worth it.
If you really want to put an end to it, which I'll admit I probably would then wait for the dust to settle and they're all together coven smile then set the record straight calmly and simply walk away, there's not many who'll begin an argument without alcohol for Dutch courage. To be honest though this girl sounds very immature and it could possibly come back to bite you on the ass in future pub situations. You know them, you judge.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Sun 23-Dec-12 22:35:35

I put this on Lou's thread and I will put it on mine

I hope that everybody has a lovely Christmas. Lets all forget our problems, count our blessings and have a few days where we only think about ourselves and our loved ones

Mini Skye came home from twunts with a present from me, with his writing on the card in the same silly way he always wrote it, like she had written it...

he's got nothing from her from me ifswim!

BlooMoon Mon 24-Dec-12 07:07:31

A lovely positive Christmas message Skye smile.

I've been following not posting but think of you and mini-Skye often. I hope you are able to keep your positive thoughts wrapped around you this Christmas, and not get sucked into Twuntery and its effects.

How about we make a pact to go back and re-read the alternative Christmas Carol lyrics, and think of them to put a smile on our face if the going gets a bit tough?


dondon33 Mon 24-Dec-12 11:44:53

Merry Christmas to you Skye, Ms and all reading

I'm full of busy, being a mixed religion relationship, I have 2 Christmases wink
So I celebrate from when the first star is in the sky tonight, 12 traditional courses of food, ending after midnight mass then do the whole traditional English one tomorrow. Santa visits us twice smile

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Mon 24-Dec-12 16:41:20

Merry Christmas Skye and mini Skye, hope Santa is good to you, all the best x

Allalonenow Mon 24-Dec-12 17:06:32

Hope you and MS have a lovely Christmas Skye.

AutumnCameUponTheMidnightClear Mon 24-Dec-12 17:11:39

Happy Christmas Skye and Mini.

I predict that this time next year you will be loved by someone, the way you deserve to be loved. In the meantime. Onwards and Upwards.

wishing you and mini Skye a very loved and loving Christmas!

tribpot Mon 24-Dec-12 22:54:35

Merry Christmas, skye and mini-skye.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 25-Dec-12 00:42:55

Merry Christmas everybody.

Have had a lovely day, lunch at the Indian with friends, then drinks at the pub. Carols round the town hall was lovely too.

Mini Skye embarrassed me during the carols..... shouting loudly....

"Mummy, I want to go back to the pub!" blush

At my parents now. Have put her to bed, gave her some new Mini Mouse pyjamas and read her The Night Before Christmas, which I have done for the past two years now. Just going to put her presents on her bed then go to bed myself.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 25-Dec-12 00:43:27

Minnie Mouse not Mini Mouse, lol

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Tue 25-Dec-12 20:30:30

Hi Skye hope you had a great time round your parents'. Was mini Skye up by 6 am?

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Tue 25-Dec-12 21:18:44

I've had a lovely day, no sadness at all, lots of fun watching MS play with her new toys. The look on her face this morning when she saw that Santa had been, was priceless and Twunt is such a fool to be missing out on this. But that was his choice and today is probably the first time it has really hit him that he is going to miss out on all this stuff. But there is stuff he could do and doesn't... He didnt take her to see Father Christmas. No effort at all.

He didnt even ring her this morning so I got her to ring him. She didnt even want to as she wanted to play with her toys .

But we have had a great day and a lovely Christmas.

so glad you've had a lovely day! grin

wheredidiputchristmas Tue 25-Dec-12 21:51:48

I'm glad you and mini skye have a good day with lots of new good memories made.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Wed 26-Dec-12 11:31:21

Morning Skye sounds like you've had a good time, more fool Twunt for missing out. As wheredidiputchristmas says, new memories made by you two, which is the way to go forward.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Fri 28-Dec-12 20:33:52

MS gave me a lovely bracelet for Christmas, she picked all the beads herself and a lovely shiny bracelet to put them on. She also told my mum that she wanted to get me some pink and purple flowers so my mum got them too. She is so thoughtful at only 4yo.

Had a lovely Boxing Day too, then Twunt picked Mini Skye up yesterday at 11am. I spent yesterday with the family then came home last night.

I've been shopping today with my mum and picked up a few bargains. £4 jumper in Asda. Christmas cards 99p for 20 in M&S instead if £4. And several bargains for my friends daughter whose birthday is early January.

Home alone again now. Decided to stay in and watch tv rather than go out on my own. Saving my money for New Years Eve.....

MS will be back 6pm tomorrow and I can't wait. We've never been apart for three days before sad

I hate the fact that he takes her away from me. We should be spending family time together and I hate him for splitting her family at such a young age..

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Fri 28-Dec-12 20:54:03

Your bracelet sounds lovely and how nice to have fresh flowers. I think your first 'new' Christmas sounds a success. She'll be having a good time and you'll be counting the hours 'til she's home. Keep that positivity shining.

imdreamingofaskyebluechristmas Fri 28-Dec-12 22:17:20

I nearly broke down today. Im just tired and a bit ill with a cold. I hate the fact that I have to be apart from my baby when it's not what I wanted. I try to be positive, it was nice to go shopping without worrying about her running rings round me.

I said to my mum that i will never forgive him for what he has done to MS. She told the Tesco delivery man last week that her daddy went to live somewhere else. sad she seems happy most of the time but who knows what really goes on in her little mind ?

My mum said today about the conversation we had when the neighbour kicked her husband out as she no longer loved him and he said she was bloody selfish for doing that to her children especially the 4yo girl. Then just two months later he walked out.... My mum is adament that he wouldn't have gone if he hadn't been infatuated with OW.

I rang MS tonight and she was ok. Said she was looking forward to seeing me tomorrow. I can't wait for her to come home.

I'm trying to concentrate hard on what I do have and not what I don't have...

tribpot Fri 28-Dec-12 22:39:37

I think the thing that truly grates is not (just) the split - that's life and people change. It's that he's virtually opted out of her life when he could have stayed local. He could make his job work around her Wednesday afternoons. He could have found a house months and months sooner than he did so that he could have seen her more. Why didn't he do all of these things? It's not as simple as saying 'because of the OW'.

I would remind your mum of his history of walking away when things get hard. This is not about the OW.

You're also harking back to a life that didn't really exist - he was only semi-involved when he was there, wasn't he?

All that said, I can't stress to you enough how much better it is for mini-Skye to have two separate but happy relationships with her parents than for them to be together unhappily. This situation is not what you wanted but the bitterness should stay in 2012. It is what it is. He was a shallow and selfish man when you married him and he is one now. But he's mini-Skye's dad, she loves him, and it's entirely to your credit that he is still in her life.

Allalonenow Fri 28-Dec-12 22:53:00

Try to keep positive Skye, you are doing so very well.

I know it's hard, I had a series of hospital tests today and each pleasant young nurse asked me if I'd had a lovely Christmas with family, how many had I cooked for....
I just said that I hadn't had a traditional Christmas, how could I say that my partner had taken The Slut on holiday to Spain....

MS will be home with you soon, don't fret.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Fri 28-Dec-12 22:59:04

Skye just let it all out on here, it's what your thread is for, sorry didn't mean to sound vacuously upbeat. I thought you were doing well at the sales and not begrudging your ex time with MS but do appreciate it's not easy. It is baffling how we think we know someone and then they amaze and disappoint us. Though like tribpot astutely observes, it's not as if Twunt was Dad of the year when you were married! and he was no stranger to bailing out if things got grown up and complicated.

Anyway without being naively Pollyanna-ish I do think you've managed well the past 72 hours in spite of feeling the strain.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Fri 28-Dec-12 23:10:58

That's the difficulty for me, is that I didn't know that we were unhappy. That i never had a chance to sort things out. That he would rather walk out in his 4yo DD than sort things out. That's still a bit that I struggle to come to terms with. That the man could fall asleep cuddling me in bed every night then claim to have not loved me for some time sad I guess i will never know the truth.

He is a weak man who cannot function on his own despite his protestations otherwise. Now OW is involved in every area of his life, his home, his DD, his business, everything. It will all go tits up at some point..

I'm trying to concentrate on me and MS for now and nothing else.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Fri 28-Dec-12 23:16:32

I am trying to stay up. I think that having had such a lovely few days surrounded by about twelve people, it's a double whammy to be home without even MS around.

But Ive got to get used to it because every other weekend I will be losing my DD and that will be for the next fourteen years possibly....

I've had some interest from online dating. Most of them seem to live in Wales though which is a little far away!

After the experience with match man it's dented my confidence too so I'm leaving a profile but not contacting anyone.

AutumnDreams Sat 29-Dec-12 11:14:21

Glad to hear you both had a lovely Christmas Skye. You are so lucky to have such a loving supportive family.

Having done all the hard work this year, processing why your life went belly up, and how you would strive to put it back together again, maybe your New Year resolution should be to finally stop questioning something that you are never going to get answers for. From what you say on here, you still spend a lot of time discussing it all with your mum, and with friends. That, sadly will undo all the good that counselling has done, I`m afraid. You will just keep repeating the cycle, and never move on completely. You have done brilliantly sorting out all the preactica issues that will give you and MS a better life, you have to accept that the rest of it isn`t relevent any more, Whether or not it does all go "tits up", with OW, will make absolutely no difference to your life. You are divorced from this man, and his life is completely his own to be whatever he wants it to be, just as yours is yours. MS sounds to have completely accepted her new situation, and, believe me, that doesn`t always happen so quickly. You coined the phrase "Onwards and Upwards" as your mantra. Follow it, and don`t look back any more. The past is another country.

AutumnDreams Sat 29-Dec-12 11:17:22

practical issues.

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Sat 29-Dec-12 12:05:02

New name Skye, like it. Emotional time of year and some sense of closure at year's end. Letting go isn't always letting another person get away with what they've done, it's giving yourself a shot at jettisoning dead wood and moving on.

Who can say whether in a year's time or 6 years' time, MS seeing her parents on alternate weekends will still hold true? The important thing is she is the focus of your joint efforts to offer her security and fair access. OW is peripheral.

Socially, 'romantically', I hope things do pick up for you, maybe take things slowly and keep yourself safe while you're still recovering.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 29-Dec-12 14:30:36

I know that I need to put it behind me. I suppose it's the time if year again and you remember the previous one etc, but once I get past Easter there will be no more "this time last year" that involves him...

I would like to meet somebody at some point but need to be in the right place to do so. I'm happy on my own most of the time, it's just hard when I do stuff with friends and they are all couples..

It will be very hard to trust somebody again as XH gave no indication that he was unhappy, so if somebody can live a lie that easily.... It has totally thrown my ability to believe that what I see and hear is true . But hopefully one day I will meet a decent honest person...

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Sat 29-Dec-12 15:00:53

I haven't walked a mile in your shoes but I think you've faced up to so much, taken other people's advice on the chin and tried counselling and got yourself organised. I think it's natural to go over what happened to avoid it happening again and small wonder if it has got you down. Trusting another person is almost secondary to trusting your own judgment again. That's what sees you going round in circles looking for answers.

As you say, as of Easter you won't measure time by where you and ex were in 2012. Landmark dates will still resonate but you'll be on a different path by then, 'onward and upward'.

AutumnDreams Sat 29-Dec-12 15:44:08

The first year of any great loss is, of course, the worst for memories, because of the physical and emotional absence of the person who has gone. From now on, all the memories you are creating, will eventually become your yardstick for comparison. Everything you are feeling Skye is normal, remembering your little family unit, now destroyed. Given the hurt you have suffered, you can`t just "put it all behind you". It`s a slow process, but what you can do is actively let go of certain things. Like how, why, where, what with regard to OW. This is what I feel is holding you back more than anything else, and it`s perfectly understandable, because you never saw it coming, and have never had any answers. You are never going to find out just exactly what went on in the past, and whatever goes on in the future is now of no consequence to your life. Shed your tears for what you know you have lost, they will help you to heal. Time or tears spent trying to find reasons for your XH`s behaviour, will only keep you hurting. THAT`S what I mean about letting go.x.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 29-Dec-12 16:16:08

I know. My counsellor said that I need to let go, that I need to stop talking about him and talk about myself. I see her next Friday after about a month of not seeing her so good time to make a fresh start with the counselling.
I feel like I've turned another corner as I was so depressed before Christmas.

I've got a mental month of work ahead of me with the January tax deadline coming up but I will get through that and then I will have a major tidy up of my house and sort my life out big time.

AutumnDreams Sat 29-Dec-12 16:54:08

That`s my girl!!!

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 29-Dec-12 19:54:35

And backwards again.. MS came home from her dads and said that OW came over to daddy's upset and crying , "worried about things"
They went upstairs to talk and he shouted at MS to stay away from them as they were talking.

Also, I told him what I was getting her for Christmas and one of his family got her a damn near identical thing which outshines my present :-(

I'm pissed off with him. But haven't said anything.

tribpot Sat 29-Dec-12 20:50:25

Charming of him but, leaving aside the fact it was OW, occasionally he will have to do focus on other things when she's there, esp for an extended period of time. I think mini-Skye will just need reassuring that he loves her but was worried about the OW who richly deserves whatever has upset her.

No way of telling if his family member upstaged you deliberately but so what? You are her mum. She doesn't really care what present you get her. But next year don't tell him what you're getting!

no one upstages a mum, that's a very good point! I love your new name too. I think 2013 will be a great year for you and MS.

Xales Sat 29-Dec-12 22:15:26

What a piece of work this guy is. He can't even call his DD on Christmas day.

If he can't be bothered to call it is not your responsibility to make the contact. You will be doing this for the next 12 years or so.

As I have said before I understand you are doing it for MS but you are making a rod for your own back. Let him stand or fail on his own from now on.

Sooner or later MS will see him for what he is.

Onward and upwards. Have a great 2013.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 29-Dec-12 23:12:45

Thanks all. Xales - you are right. i expected him to email me before Xmas Eve and ask if he could call her on Christmas Day. There is no mobile signal at my parents and he knows that.... Then when he didn't call, I thought she should call him, but I won't do it again...

Mini Skye gave me a present from her (from him)... Just realised that I didn't tell you what it was... It was a Next gift set (OW's choice obviously as XH never shopped in Next when with me...). anyway, it was a little nail file, body lotion and perfume, called

Live Laugh Love...

Is that taking the piss, or am I being oversensitive?! hmm confused

Obviously I said thanks darling, I love it to Mini Skye, whilst wanting to chuck it straight in the bin....

My name change inspired by the New Year, but very apt as well, yes...

tribpot Sat 29-Dec-12 23:44:28

I doubt it was taking the piss so much as a clumsy and insensitive attempt to say he wishes you the best. Which I'm sure in his own twuntish way he does.

Still, straight to the charity shop for that I think.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 29-Dec-12 23:56:39

He sent my parents a Christmas card with his new address in it and Best Wishes....

That did go straight in the bin grin

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Sun 30-Dec-12 12:53:54

Live Laugh Love snort, no probably not malicious but dense.

The gift thing with a family member is just bad luck, don't worry.

Luckily things will go over MS's head at her age so as long as her Dad abides by arrangements and looks after her, don't be rattled by any mention of OW gate-crashing.

God he really is so bloody thoughtless, Skye - honestly, if you ever get maudlin about how things 'used to be' remind yourself that actually, he's always been a bit shite. And this 'live love laugh' bollocks is just an indicator of that. Thoughtless, inconsiderate, just bloody stupid.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 30-Dec-12 19:18:35

Hello Skye, just looking in to see how you're doing. Looks like you're getting there bit by bit. So glad for you.

Just to mention that Next seems to have sets with the strapline of 'Live, Laugh, Love'; I have a set of three notebooks with that on them. I'd hazard a guess that it wasn't meant to be personal at all - not that that is much consolation given that he was your husband and it will still feel personal.

Anyway, I have a feeling that 2013 will be a good year for you, you've come so far now. All good wishes to you and mini-Skye.

tribpot Sun 30-Dec-12 19:20:31

Blimey Witch - so at least we can be glad the OW he didn't get a set of 3 notebooks and just give skye the one that says 'Laugh' on it! (Would not put it past him, the twunt).

SpiderManMum Sun 30-Dec-12 19:44:25

Hi Skye, happy new year to you. We made it through our first Xmas, lets hope 2013 holds some happy memories for us that help the ones of 2012 fade that little bit more.

As for the gift, it is insensitive. If he had been bought by the twunt, then I would dare say that he hadn't noticed the strap line or is just so useless that probably doesn't realise it could cause offence. However, if it was purchased by the ow, then I do wonder if there was just a little bit of nastiness/ sarcasm behind it, but then I could just be a bit paranoid myself these days!

Either way, think yourself lucky you got something however insensitive it was. It appears that the thought didn't even cross my twunts mind...

Xales Sun 30-Dec-12 20:08:04

Mmm if the shit is hitting the fan with OW what a shame then be prepared for your ex not to be able to have DD because 'something more important' has cropped up.

Expect nothing of him and make fall back plans for anything you arrange that is really important.

Plus remember to record it all so that when he whines that you are stopping him from seeing DD you have actual times and dates to back your augment.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Mon 31-Dec-12 00:27:13

I'm starting to realise how useless he actually is.

He never rings her, he never asks after her, never asks how she is getting on at school.

Left here bleating that he would see DD as much as he "was allowed", yet now makes excuses why he can't have her in the holidays etc.

I send her book bag and tell him that she needs to read a book a day and he doesn't even bother.

Didnt take her to see father Christmas

Didnt take her to see his mum over Christmas

Takes her to the supermarket every weekend.

Feeds her tinned pasta and McDonalds every visit

Now has OW involved in every area of his life, his home, his DD and his business.
Declares that he just wants to live in peace and I must not go on at him which makes it very difficult to tell him anything about DD ....

wheredidiputchristmas Mon 31-Dec-12 08:59:40

Glad you can see what he is actually like now Skye.

As others have said stop picking up the slack. If he doesn't phone MS then don't ring him.

He didn't/doesn't want you to organize him so don't he will have to explain to MS why he not doing what he said he would.

Explain to MS that daddy see her on whatever day have been agreed, mark them on the calendar so she can see. Don't mention about him phoning her to MS just be around should he ring.

He has to be responsible for his relationship with his daughter.

tribpot Mon 31-Dec-12 10:11:51

Absolutely as wheredidiputchristmas says. Send him with the book bag. He doesn't bother: his problem. When she starts getting project work to do at the weekend (the absolute bane of my feckin life) he will have to do it on his weekend, or she'll have to come home early enough that you can comfortably fit it in on a Sunday afternoon.

Don't prompt him to phone - it's not like any of us would need reminding what day to phone our children on if - god forbid - we didn't live with them.

And remember, the family life you are mourning is with this guy. He was this useless when you were married, it was just less obvious. Fortunately it sounds like, left to his own devices, he will reduce contact to a level where mini-skye need not be too affected by his shitness.

MrsTomHardy Mon 31-Dec-12 10:15:09

Typical x behaviour Skye.
I've been there twice!

I wouldn't tell him anything about MS unless he asks or it's something important. Don't get her to call him, unless she asks too!
She will soon realise what he's all about, it doesn't take kids long to sus it out.
You can't make him be a good dad, it's down to him now!!

wheredidiputchristmas Mon 31-Dec-12 10:47:34

* When she starts getting project work to do at the weekend (the absolute bane of my feckin life)* - me too. I was just thinking about doing DS project for him, he needs to write about the best bits about his christmas. He 3 at nursery so unable to write his own. Not to mention helping dd2 (reception year) do some writing about her christmas and dd1 (Yr 4) do a project on ancient Egypt) nice to have break from school work grin.

Hi skye

So what's happening with OW then??

Obviously something that the twunt doesn't want you to get a hint of.

Could it be that her H is finally starting to cotton on to what's happening?

One of the most painful things in a situation like yours is having to allow your DC to realise what their DF is really like. I had to do it with my own DC and it is very unpleasant.

Anyway, onwards and upwards!

A very happy 2013 to you and Mini, and I hope you enjoy your celebrations tonight!

TheoxenandDonkeyskneltdown Mon 31-Dec-12 13:01:03

It does sound like there's trouble in Paradise but Skye needn't bother herself about that. Once the allure of a secret liaison wears off and each person sees what the other's really like, plus any input from hitherto unsuspecting partners, the shiny new relationship suddenly doesn't look so very wonderful after all, boo hoo, tough luck.

More important is how mini Skye gets along, as long as you aren't putting obstacles in her dad's way he has no excuse not to up his game and make more of an effort. Hope you have a good NYE Skye and look ahead to 2013, bravely and with every chance to make a great life for yourself and DD.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Mon 31-Dec-12 13:35:57

Thanks everyone, feeling a little low today, trying to busy myself with work though. Mini Skye is quite simply the most adorable girl ever. I know I am biased because Im her mum, but how on earth anybody could ever leave her is beyond me. If Twunt had said when he was first unhappy we could have ironed things out. All he kept saying is we are who we are and we cant change that, stating that my personality is something that cannot be changed. So in the same vein, that personality that cannot be changed, is the one he fell in love with, it hasnt changed, therefore, that must mean that he has changed.....

I hope to Christ that OW's H is finally waking up and smelling the bullshit. XH will lose his best friend of 35+ years over this. His family cant stand OW, they have always thought she is a little deranged, so he will cut himself off from his family too. XH should not be the first person that OW turns to, what about her other friends? Who did she hang out with before her and XH became so friendly? Why doesnt her XH think of these things??

I just can't wait for the day when he is sat there with nothing and nobody and yes that is vindictive, but after the shit that he has put me through...... I damn near reached rock bottom, spending the day in bed when MS wasnt here as I had nothing to get up for, even though I had tons of work to do.

I have just had to pay a tax bill of £1300 thanks to him. I worked for his business to reduce his tax bill, seeing as the money saved would benefit both of us. I agreed to pay it when he said I could have the house, but it means that I am now wiped out financially. I need to order a load of oil and simply dont have the money to pay for it.. My parents will help out and I can pay them back, but I hate being in this position. I know it is only temporary until the mortgage is sorted out, but I hate being in debt.

I am now catching up on all my work and I am fighting my way back up and out of all the crap.

He is not going to break me. 2013 is going to be a good year for me and I think, quite possibly, a very bad one for XH...

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 31-Dec-12 14:23:41

He is not going to break me excellent, Skye, keep that in mind.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Mon 31-Dec-12 14:52:39

I would like to say Happy New Year to all the posters and lurkers on this thread.

I couldn't have got through the past few months without MN , I still cant believe what has happened to me in that time, since 24 Feb when my world fell apart. I joined MN in April to get advice on how to rebuild my marriage and get my H back. I didnt like the advice I was given, but everybody was proved right in the end. Nobody said I told you so, everybody was still here for me then and some are still here now.

I now try and advise others in the same situation without being too harsh on them and recently have been namechecked on a couple of threads for giving good advice, or for knowing what the situation is like having been through it.

At the moment, I still need the support that is on here and even when I don't I will be sticking around to try and pay it forward.

Thanks everybody and I hope that we all have a good New Years Eve and a much better 2013 .

captainmummy Mon 31-Dec-12 14:56:22

Face forward, Skye. 2013 will be better - for you. Who knows what shit is brewing in his life.

Hope you have a good night tonight, beware of plumbers and their plungers!

Allalonenow Mon 31-Dec-12 16:21:20

Best New Year wishes to you Skye and MS.

You have faced all the difficult decisions of these past months with courage and fortitude, and an unfailing sense of houmour. I do so hope that all your plans and dreams are realized.

Wishing you and MS a fantastic 2013, Skye - look how far you've come already!

cleef15 Tue 01-Jan-13 00:46:41

Happy new year Skye. That is it we have got through Christmas and new year - it can really only get better now. Good luck for 2013.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Tue 01-Jan-13 01:38:54

Thanks all. I'm drink and have been providing a sympathetic ear to the plumber :-)

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Tue 01-Jan-13 03:09:47

OK, So I chatted to the plumber when he first turned up in the pub :-) Then didnt see him for a while, then chatted to him again later on. Made lots of sympathetic noises, he is going through a divorce, told him that I am here for him if he needs a chat, then texted the same to him.

Cant do any more than that... subtle... What will be will be.....

Happy New Year. Its 3am and Im feeling a bit sick now :-( but Happy New Year everybody :-))))))

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Tue 01-Jan-13 03:34:25

Had a lovely chat with the plumber, softly softly catchy monkey :-))

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Tue 01-Jan-13 03:43:03

Sorry am fairly drunk. Plumber bought me a drink :-)) he is lovely person. Quite old fashioned, worried about his 10yo DD. lovely bloke. 4 years older than me. Nice guy.

What will be will be ...

wheredidiputchristmas Tue 01-Jan-13 08:18:01

Whispers "happy new year Skye".

That's a good way to look at the future What will be will be.

tribpot Tue 01-Jan-13 08:56:03

<Passes skye the alka skeltzer>

Happy new year!

tribpot Tue 01-Jan-13 08:56:28

(btw alka skeltzer is like alka seltzer with added helter skelter)

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 01-Jan-13 11:57:50

Hello Skye <indoor voice> happy new year! (tiptoes away shuts door quietly).

Dr Tribpot's alka skeltzer sounds just the cure wink

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Tue 01-Jan-13 13:03:11

blush oh dear......

Please ignore my drunken ramblings..,.

tribpot Tue 01-Jan-13 13:44:46

Heh heh. Better drunk ramblings with us on MN than drunk texting the Twunt.

I lay odds it didn't even occur to you to drunk text him - which just shows how far you've come.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Tue 01-Jan-13 16:21:00

No it didnt occur to me. I had a really good night, I had one small wobble when somebody wished me a happy new year and said that I had been really strong and deserve a good year now.

I went outside for a bit as I thought I was going to cry but I didn't....

I went outside at midnight to avoid all the festivities , I hate randomly kissing people that you would normally avoid, lol.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 02-Jan-13 11:13:46

Hello HappyNewSkyebluesapphire see it's long but I managed it, nice and upbeat nn.

I hope you are feeling good today and think it was a really nice idea to stick around on MN, both to post and seek advice but also to 'pay it forward'.

Tribpot made a very good point, you did well to resist texting Twunt when in your cups, it's so easy and nearly always regrettable in the cold light of day.

DD had a merry time out with her friends on NYE. I was wondering how she was getting on (cluck cluck) when I recalled that at her age, my friends and I pre-legal age for drinking would go down the town, socialise for several hours then congregate at a central point with friends and strangers and kiss random people enthusiastically at midnight. Mustn't be hypocritical!

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Wed 02-Jan-13 20:00:42

Had a sad moment tonight. Picked MS up from my mum's and randomly on the way home, she says "I wish that my Daddy would come home and stay with us again" sad It made me cry sad

I told her that Daddy loves her very much, but that he doesnt love Mummy any more and that he has to live somewhere else.

She said, I will ask Daddy to come home again and I said, oh sweetheart, that is just never going to happen, I am so sorry. But we are happy and thats all that matters. She then said, Is Daddy happy. I said I hope so (and under my breath said, he had better be, or all this was for nothing...)

it breaks my heart to see her so sad. I really thought that she was dealing well with it.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 02-Jan-13 21:30:59

Sad how clueless he's been.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Wed 02-Jan-13 22:41:19

I hate him for what he has done to that child. She worshipped her daddy.

She said, I don't like coming home to you without Daddy there too.

Eight months he's been gone and she still thinks he will come home. How could he do this to her!

It takes a special sort of bastard to walk out on a child.

tribpot Wed 02-Jan-13 22:52:48

Of course she would like you both in one place. But when she is older she will appreciate having parents who are happy apart rather than unhappy together.

In theory, he only left you, not her. In practice he's barely raised a finger for her, the selfish fucker. Which is another reason why she's better off with some distance between them, not that she could possibly see that now.

Remember to make this year about you, skye. There's no point dwelling on what he's done and how he could do it (and your underlying belief that you could have fixed it all, given the chance). It's done.

Midwife99 Thu 03-Jan-13 15:50:30

Skye - this thread is called onwards & upwards - not backwards & downwards - you really need to start looking to the future - a good happy healthy future for you & MS together. Bollox to what twunt & his female friend are up to!!

Yeah, hard as it is, it's time to cultivate an air of detachment to the ex . You've got a lot of things Robbi look forward to, and if that doesn't feel true, go make some more! practice saying out loud "who cares what that loser does? not me!" and say it out loud every time you spiral.into thinking about him, whether it is thinking about the unanswered questions of the past or what he is up to now. you need to convince yourself that you don't care, so start by talking yourself, out loud, that you don't .

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 04-Jan-13 15:44:48

Hope you have a good weekend planned, Skye, did you sign up with the gym at the sports hall? Know you said you have lots of work on this month but you deserve some Skye time too.

AutumnDreams Fri 04-Jan-13 17:55:42

Actually Skye, you letting go of the past and moving on.....and being able to forgive/forget the hurt that has been caused to your child, are two entirely separate issues. I readily admit to never having been able to do the forgiving thing, despite it being many years ago. When you first hold your precious baby, you make a silent promise to them that you will never allow anyone to hurt them. When the person to cause them the most hurt is their own father, then no mother worth her salt will ever be able to completely forgive that. A colleague once said to me "But you should, you`re a counsellor". WTF, I`m a mother first. Then I`m a counsellor, not a bloody saint! Maybe I`ve been in the wrong job all these years.

wiseoldowl Fri 04-Jan-13 19:09:25

Hi Skye,
just de-lurking to say how strong you've been over Xmas & New Year (it is one of the worst times - forced jollity and all that).
as for twunt, mine has been the same over xmas (1 voicemail message to DS on xmas day to say 'sorry i couldnt speak to you,may try later'). That hurts me so much to see what kind of crap dad he is proving to be, when he used to be sooo good when he was here.....& his OW was a family friend who knows my son & that also disappoints me that she cant even encourage him to make more of an effort.
18 months on now and I know I can never forgive my XH (2 marriages broken, 4 children living without their dads) but speaking from experience & as you say, its their loss. My DS and I are so close now, always laughing and I advise just to concentrate on making yourself happy and not dwell on the why's and wherefore's.
keep up the good work X

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 05-Jan-13 00:21:10

Thanks all. I saw my counsellor this morning. She said that I have done everything with my head and not with my heart and that I have to look at my feelings for him and how to deal with them in order that I can stop analysing and try and move on. She said it will be painful but it's something that I need to do.

She said I should be proud of how far I've come, that a month ago when she last saw me she was afraid I was spiralling into a proper depression but I have pulled myself out of it again.

I was always the "rescuer" and he was always the "victim" right from when we first met and within a few months he had moved in and I was clearing his debts for him. Now OW is the rescuer and I'm the persecutor.

She said his apology means that he is accepting responsibility, something that he doesn't normally do...

And that I need to accept that I cannot make him a good father. It either comes from him or not at all.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 05-Jan-13 00:23:50

Thanks all. I saw my counsellor this morning. She said that I have done everything with my head and not with my heart and that I have to look at my feelings for him and how to deal with them in order that I can stop analysing and try and move on. She said it will be painful but it's something that I need to do.

She said I should be proud of how far I've come, that a month ago when she last saw me she was afraid I was spiralling into a proper depression but I have pulled myself out of it again.

I was always the "rescuer" and he was always the "victim" right from when we first met and within a few months he had moved in and I was clearing his debts for him. Now OW is the rescuer and I'm the persecutor.

She said his apology means that he is accepting responsibility, something that he doesn't normally do...

And that I need to accept that I cannot make him a good father. It either comes from him or not at all.

tribpot Sat 05-Jan-13 08:51:14

That all sounds like a very fair comment, skye. You have done amazingly well - when you think back to your initial threads and then how long you fought against the odds to keep your marriage going, it's been a very short time indeed since you accepted that it was DOA.

You've always pushed him to be a better person but it's bit like having a personal trainer - we could all run faster or get fitter if we have someone behind us dedicated to pushing us on, but ultimately our fitness can only be sustained if we are committed to maintaining it. Otherwise we lapse as soon as the pressure is removed. He could have seen how much better his life was as a result of your efforts and chosen to take on the good habits you had tried to instill in him. He could even have chosen to take most of those on whilst still ending the marriage - been a good father, stayed out of debt, shouldered his responsibilities. He chose not to do that - not because of you, but because of him.

Midwife99 Sat 05-Jan-13 09:44:35

That's it exactly Trib. If he wants to fuck up it's not your problem anymore (apart from maintenance for MS of course). Let go of the man he was clearly pretending to be in order to be a husband. He's now being the real useless him again & not worth wasting any more energy on. You on the other hand are capable of getting it right for MS.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sat 05-Jan-13 14:06:36

His brother used to say that XH used to praise me for turning his life around, for helping him to clear his debts and supporting him when he started his own business. His uncle praised me, for turning his life around, as his own dad had said years ago that he wouldn't amount to anything.

Then, in the end, he turned against the very thing that he wanted to start with, the organisation of his life and business.

XBIL said that to me, that he was now criticizing the thing that he praised me for me. XBIL said that I hadnt changed, I had always been sarcastic and untidy... and I had to agree with him, lol.

So, while I have my faults, I know that I need to be in control, (Not controlling, which is another thing entirely), I need my life to have structure and to know what I am doing and when... that is the exact opposite of XH, who worries about something when it happens.... like panicking the day before his £3500 VAT is due, rather than sort it out in advance!

This is what the counsellor said yesterday, that we are like chalk and cheese, something drew us together, but it wasn't enough to sustain a long term marriage.


I have my daughter
I have my house
I have my health
I have a good business
I have supportive friends
I have supportive family

I told that counsellor yesterday that I know that I will be OK in the long term and that he probably won't...... but that is his decision and I am no longer responsible for him.

Midwife99 Sat 05-Jan-13 14:17:17

Yes it's a shame that the very things that were good about you were then somehow bad about you. That makes you doubt yourself & your good qualities.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 10:50:01

Just remembered that we had some accounts with ING. Nothing in them, but there two joint accounts, so have rung up and closed them. I still havent heard back from the Tax Credits, so have no idea if Im going to get any money next week or not...... If I don't I will be totally screwed.

Had a little cry last night again, but just a little one. I'm trying not to dwell on things, but it just seems so wrong that at the age of nearly 41, I am on my own with a 4yo DD. I know it could be so much worse, but it's not what I wanted.

It's Sunday again, we should be doing family things together and instead I'm here on my own working and on MN and DD has just gone off with her dad for today and tomorrow.

He turned up in a different vehicle today, but its older than the last one, so thats a sign that things arent going well in his business..... maybe that Karma is starting to catch up with him...

Right I need to get off MN and do some work!

tribpot Sun 06-Jan-13 11:20:34

But realistically what would you have been doing this Sunday, skye? You might have been able to badger him into going out, or he might have made up some bullshit excuse about not wanting to do it. You believed you could create the family you wanted through sheer force of will. You were wrong.

Midwife99 Sun 06-Jan-13 11:28:29

Skye you are giving some bloody brilliant advice to others at the moment on MN - you are gaining huge amounts of strength. You can do it!!

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 13:11:59

Thanks Midwife - I can dish the advice out but I cant always follow it myself can I... sad

I could have gone to lunch with friends today for a birthday, but I have done the right thing in staying home, because I have so much work to do and also, I can't afford to go out and spend £20-£30 on lunch and drinks.

This morning I have cleared a large chunk of work, so it has been worthwhile. Just taking a little break and checking on everybody's problems..... XH has got her tomorrow too as its a non-pupil day, so he is keeping his part of the deal at the moment, to have her on Mondays in school holidays.....

My counsellor asked me to consider what my REAL fears/feelings are at the moment (aside from not getting all my work done on time!) and I think that the biggest fear is that I am going to be on my own forever. I also hate the fact that I still have to deal with XH in my life because of DD. I also feel rejected, rejected by the man that swore I was the best thing to ever happen to him and that he would love me for ever. "All my love, always" was written in every card, every year.... even last Christmas, 2 months before he walked out.

What he should have written was "All my love, always, or until I get my head turned by a young bitch"........

Anyway....... nothing changes anything..... another pet saying of mine at the moment. It doesnt matter what does or doesnt happen with XH from now on. We are divorced. My feelings will alter in time.

I put on Lou's thread yesterday about Minis Skye and going to bed last night. I have to shut all the doors apart from hers and last night I asked her why. She said that if my bedroom door wasn't shut, then a monster would come out of my tv and kill her. She has only ever watched CBeebies or a Tom & Jerry DVD on it, so I don't know why she thinks that?!

So now I know the reason for shutting all of the doors...

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 06-Jan-13 14:14:54

Even if it wasn't possible to attend, it's nice to have been invited. You are good at prioritising.

Re: where does mini Skye get such ideas from. You'll have noticed already, little pitchers have big ears. Plus children's minds are like sponges: they take in so much and can't always process it fully. So with schoolmates, an overheard chance remark, advertising and tv there are lots of possible outside influences.

tribpot Sun 06-Jan-13 15:51:25

I think you tied your self-esteem to your ability to rescue your ex, skye. Your achievement was the fact he was no longer a complete fuck-up. So when he voluntarily turns back into the fuck-up again, it feels like you failed.

The fact that he says one thing and does another is not new.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 16:39:42

Me and my counsellor were discussing how I always sorted everything out for him. He had nowhere to live, so he moved in with me, rent free so he could sort his debts out. He did pay half of all the bills, food etc. I cleared his debt to a 0% card, then he ran up the same again. We fell out. He couldnt see my point that he had let me down, until his mate told him he was a twat. He apologised, I transferred the new debt to the 0% card too, thereby sorting it all out once again!.

That was a hell of a thing for me to do for a man I had only known for 12 months. He could have walked away at any time and I would have been left with the debt in my own name! I would never ever do that again for anybody!

The counsellor pointed out that I have always rescued him. He always turned to me for help. He would say things like - I dont know how Im going to pay the VAT - and i would dig around in savings, overdraft etc and sort it out for him.

She also said that by turning to OW to talk to, it was the worst thing that could have happened. His brother told him to grow a pair and talk to me, his mate would have done the same. OW was sympathetic, all poor you, never mind, oh you are brilliant, wonderful, so sweet, blah blah blah. So he got the ego stroking, she got the attention and it was a match made in heaven..... so now OW is the lovely rescuer of him and him of her.

and of course since the split, she has turned on me, calling me cold and pathetic for putting his stuff on the driveway, whereas at the time, she told him what did he expect and it served him right. So now he has OW at his ear all the time, telling him what a nasty bitch I am and egging him on with stuff, so they have turned me into the nasty person in the triangle.

The Counsellor keeps going on about the rescuing thing because she wants me to see the pattern, so that I dont fall into it again in my next relationship.

I also need to work out why I need to be in control of things and what is the worst that can happen if it all goes wrong.... she said it is probably because my dad is very controlling, so I rebelled against it and wanted to be in control myself, not controlled by him.

So I need to see and accept my own faults which are:

lazy (sometimes)
need to be in charge

my good points are

sense of humour
good friend

I will try and think of some more!

tribpot Sun 06-Jan-13 16:58:49

What will be interesting, though, is that the OW is far too selfish to be his rescuer. She might have said the right things to make him feel good, but there's no way she'll bail him out over and over like you did. I imagine at the moment he likes the feeling of liberation - but you know better than I do it's tax return season and I can see the gleam wearing off that feeling quite quickly!

The problem's less that you're unaware of your own faults and more that you believe you can compensate for them/control them in others, at least in your partner. How is your mum with your dad? Does she let him organise everything? Or do they have more fixed areas of control, like his is money and hers is the house? (Just as an example).

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire Sun 06-Jan-13 17:09:32

My dad is a MCP. He expects my mother to do everything around the house. He never makes a cup of tea. He walks in sits down and demands.....

When she used to work outside with him, they would spend equal time milking the cows, then he would come in and sit down while she did breakfast. Then he would go out to work again, while she cooked a roast dinner every day, did all the farm paperwork, all the washing cleaning etc. Then he would eat dinner and sit down demanding cups of tea, while she did all the dishes etc.

he had all the leisure time that he wanted and dared her to leave the farm for a day out as she was needed to stay there. she even missed childhood plays etc because he would deliberately book things in on that day so that she couldnt go. Once I was the only kid in the school, whose mum wasnt there, out of 40 kids .

He is selfish, demanding, tempermental, quite a nasty man really. But he is my dad and he has been generous over the years, helping me buy cars and things like that. He is not a bad man, just the way he is and because my mum put up with it, he has never had to try and change.

She started to rebel against him when we were teenagers. Me and DB told her "you can be a doormat all your life if you want, but we are not going to". It caused no end of trouble. My dad actually told my mum "that life was so much easier when you did what you were told" shock

It has given me a warped view of relationships growing up, as I was determined not to end up with a man like that and as my counsellor says, I ended up with the complete opposite, a man who was happy to be told what to do, until he also rebelled.......

startingagain88 Sun 06-Jan-13 19:46:17

Hi Skye,

Happy new year..... i thought id pop in and see how you are getting on! smile

I understand completely about being a rescuer i was the same for my ExP i sorted everything for him, he didnt have any stress at all, he always turned to me. and i suppose i must of got something out of that or i wouldnt have continued to do it.....

Dont feel bad about going over the whys and wherefores i still do it even now, i still have trouble understanding why my ex did what he did- but i suppose you or I will never know the whole truth, which is a hard thing to accept.

Thinking of you xxx

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 07-Jan-13 09:43:19

Good morning Skye,
Still giggling over other thread, (dries eyes).

I was interested about what tribpot asked regarding your parents' relationship, and your reply. With some people, they will be as they always have been, what you see is what you get, and they have certain core values, and dedicate themselves to something, (eg the family, the farm).

Other people present themselves in a particular way, and keep that image going for as long as it suits them to, aren't grounded, (in fact repeatedly duck out when the going gets tough), and loyalty is something they are happy for others to give, but it's a one way street as far as they're concerned.

If we all to some extent mirror our own parents' relationship, do you see elements of your mum and dad's partnership in your time with Twunt?

Initially Twunt seemed easy going, happy to apparently sit back and let you take the reins, but by the end he was inwardly resisting and unwilling to compromise.

Something was fundamentally different about your marriage with Twunt from your parents' marriage. I bet you worked as hard as your mother ever did to keep things harmonious, but Twunt wasn't like your dad.

(Happy new year Starting btw, you too deserve a better one than last year).

Skyebluesapphire Mon 07-Jan-13 10:55:04

Twunt accused me of walking all over him, but agreed to every single thing that I asked of him. I never made arrangements or booked tickets without asking him first. My dad simply expects my mum to do everything he wants without question. so the relationships were different. But I did end up with a man who was the complete opposite of my dad.

I have to ring my XBIL as I still do his accounts and have a few questions before I can file his tax return. I always try to avoid talking about XH, but it always ends up coming into the conversation as XBIL is pissed off with him and his obsessions with his friend and her family.... I will try to keep the conversation to a minimum though.

I rang MS at 7pm last night to say goodnight to her and she said that they had been to the shop and McDonalds and were going home so she could go to bed. I had specifically asked him to put her to bed at 7.30pm as she has school tomorrow, so looks like he ignored that too.

I have also asked him not to take her to McD's every weekend, but he ignores that too. how difficult is it to make her some mash potato or pasta? or even take her to a supermarket cafe instead?

The bloke is a totally useless twazzock

Skyebluesapphire Mon 07-Jan-13 11:38:28

When I emailed twunt about ongoing access, I also mentioned that he had duplicated the present that I had bought her and that I thought it was unfair, as I had especially told him what I was getting.

He just texted to say that he didnt know what I was getting and that he just bought her the leap pad is it looked like a nice thing. (a £60 leap pad on top of a scooter, a bike and a £25 DS game). I replied that I had emailed him to tell him, he said that I hadnt.

So I just found the email and forwarded it to him, dated 1 October, where I tell him Im getting her a pink Vtech Innotab, bought with the proceeds from selling the George Michael tickets and he replies and says, thanks for that, what can I get her? to which I reply, she wants a 2 wheeled scooter.....

Why is he such a knobhead? How difficult is it to remember something? and if he can't remember, then he should write it down??!!!

The things that annoyed me when we were together are not going to go away now are they? Its like the mediator said, these issues will become MORE of a problem now that you are no longer together, as what you used to tolerate, you no longer will!

He is also unsure about seeing her on Wednesdays due to work, so I replied that I need commitment due to my own work, that if he doesnt see her in the week, then he will not see her for two weeks at a time now that we have gone EOW, but that is his choice, she is available whenever he wants, but he must commit to it...

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 07-Jan-13 11:52:20

Why is he such a knobhead? How difficult is it to remember something? and if he can't remember, then he should write it down??!!!

A top tip: stick a cushioned pad on your wall so you can bang your head against it comfortably, Skye.

Allalonenow Mon 07-Jan-13 12:09:49

Don't get yourself into a tizzy over the leap pad Skye, he is just doing it to wind you up.
The business of "I don't remember that" is a classic controlling technique, he is using it to make you doubt yourself and your memory of events, so that you become vulnerable.
He is lying and manipulating to get a response from you, to make you defend your self and your own memory of events.

Let it wash over you, what does it matter that MS has now got two similar devices? When the screen of one cracks, she will have a fall back toy.

Re him chopping and changing visiting dates, I would get a diary and keep a very detailed record of each time he alters arrangements, make notes as to reasons he gives. This will be very useful should you ever decide to limit access or that you want it to be at your convenience.

Go easy on yourself, you will be under enough pressure re tax deadlines this month; just ignore him.

Skyebluesapphire Mon 07-Jan-13 12:14:35

A top tip: stick a cushioned pad on your wall so you can bang your head against it comfortably, Skye.

PMSL at that one Donkeys. It's a good job I have here to come and vent to.

and allalonenow , he never remembered a sodding thing. I was discussing this the other day with the counsellor to work out my behaviour and she said that I wasn't controlling, that it is very frustrating having to repeat yourself several times and still not be heard..... She said that his approach to life is very different to mine...... In the end, if I had something really important to say, something that it was vital that he remembered, I would have to say to him "are you listening to me, this is important, blah blah blah". so having to treat him like a child basically.

Well, I have got 3 tax returns ready to file so far and working on another 2. I actually feel like I am getting somewhere and that the pressure is lifting a bit now. Still have an awful lot to do, but feeling happier about it all now.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 07-Jan-13 12:23:33

3 ready already, 2 being prepared, you're on fire smile

cenicienta Mon 07-Jan-13 12:36:47

I get the feeling from your posts that ex is actually trying to run away from himself. He's blaming you for everything that was wrong: you being controlling etc, when actually all you did was hold a mirror up to him and he didn't like what he saw. He probably realises you rescued him and probably knows deep down that that was due to his weakness rather than your's.

He probably will never grow up and face his weaknesses. But like you say, you can detatch from him.

OK, so once a week MS goes to bed late and eats junk food. What's the worst that can happen? (I've been through this with my dcs). You continue being the best possible parent you can be whether ex follows your example or not. Unfortunately if he chooses to put her to bed at midnight when he has her, and feeds her chocolate and crisps all day you can't really do anything about it. Just make sure that the rest of the time when she's with you she goes to bed at a good time and eats healthy food (and her teeth get a good clean).

You sound like a great mum, so just keep on doing that, being consistent and strong. MS is really lucky to have you!

Skyebluesapphire Mon 07-Jan-13 13:13:23

My ex is definitely running away from himself and this is what he does every time he can't cope with things in life. The emotional attachment to OW was a way of escaping his worries about illness, tax bill, my stressy behaviour (due to workload)... so instead of facing these things and trying to help himself and me, he turned to the OW. My only consolation is that I know that one day, whatever happens, it will all blow up in their faces, as they cannot maintain that level of secret friendship for ever.

I don't worry what time DD goes to bed normally, its just with so many late nights over Christmas, she has been still awake at 10pm and then not waking up til 9am. With school again tomorrow, I asked him nicely if he would get her in bed at 7.30pm, so that she wakes up in time tomorrow.

He did text to say that she slept soundly all night and woke at 8am, so thats good and hopefully she will do the same tonight. He is actually going to bring her back early at 5pm, so that she has time to settle down before bed, so I suppose he is doing something OK.

Xales Mon 07-Jan-13 13:35:22

Stop telling him what you are buying her.

Stop giving him suggestions as to what to buy her. He doesn't want your imput remember, so let him try and think for himself.

Stop the emails. What have you gained from the exchange. Yes you are right but all that is happened is that you are wound up and thinking he is more of a twat and he is just rolling his eyes telling OW what an unreasonable bitch you are and absolutely nothing constructive has come of it. Annoying as it is you need to just chalk these up to his being a selfish git and move serenely onward.

Same with the food and late nights. You have gained nothing from telling him apart from stress and irritation plus him telling OW again that you are interfering and controlling.

Ow and him are none of your business. Time to stop focusing on them and ignore them. You are still giving way too much of your time, energy and emotions to two people who don't give a fuck about you. The best place you can be in when it goes tits up it to shrug and say not my problem and feel that too. Waiting for it is beneath you and brings you down.

Just concentrate on you and being the best parent you can be.

You gain nothing from engaging or from going back over this all again.

Let it go. Every time you think or engage with him/them back off and go do something more interesting. The ironing for example...

Skyebluesapphire Mon 07-Jan-13 14:26:28

He did ask me what he could get her for Christmas, so I told him a scooter. I also told him about the Innotab so that it wasnt duplicated, yet thats exactly what happened. I only followed advice of friends who are separated and how they handle Christmas/Birthday presents.

and I wont apologise for wanting my DD to be fit for school this week after a lot of late nights. It is not controlling him, it is for DD's benefit. He doesn't usually have her on a Sunday, its a one off due to a non pupil day and quite rightly I didnt want her staying up late when she is due back at school 48 hours later, so I asked him to have her in bed by 7.30pm.

I am talking about a oneoff situation, I never ever tell him when she should go to bed when she is with him as it is the weekend and it doesnt matter, same as it doesnt matter when she is with me.

I also had to confirm contact with him as we are now going to EOW and I want him to commit to Wednesday after school, but if he won't then it is his loss, he will only see her EOW and not in between. I have to ask him to commit because if he wont then I need to put her in the after school club due to my work. My work is no less important than his work.

Talking of which, I have got loads done today :-)

I would write to him again telling he needs to commit to every Wednesday evening by Friday otherwise as from next Week MS will be at the after school club or he can arrange in advance childcare for MS as you are not available due to YOUR work.

Xales Mon 07-Jan-13 18:01:48

When he asks you what to get her say something like 'I don't know I am struggling to think of ideas too...'. Stop handing him the looking good, great dad on a plate without him even having to think about it! He didn't want you telling him what to do. He wants it when it makes his life easier and makes him look good. You do all the thinking about what MS would love he uses you to do it.

Skyebluesapphire Mon 07-Jan-13 18:41:12

In future I will do that and ask him to let me know when he has decided what he is getting.

He actually managed to sort something out for himself today. He texted me to as was I working in his town. I said no. DD then turned up half an hour early with him and a stranger driving. He then text to say that his van was still in the garage and he had to get a lift from the garage to bring her back.

I just replied that it was a good job that I had got home early too then wasnt it or else he would have been hanging around for half an hour grin.

He didnt ask me to go and pick her up which is a miracle!

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 07-Jan-13 19:30:55

He coped, he took the initiative, wahaay!

Proudnscary Mon 07-Jan-13 19:51:45

Hi Syke - just wanted to say happy new year and that I still read your thread and am still cheering you and Mini Skye on. Still agree with all the others - detach, detach then detach some more. Don't engage or expend your precious energy in these email battles. You are awesome, he's a knobber. I think that's pretty much established now! X

Skyebluesapphire Mon 07-Jan-13 22:41:39

<<waves at Proudnscary>> have seen you around on a couple of other threads. There are a lot of twunts around at the moment!

Proudnscary Tue 08-Jan-13 14:32:57

God I know - is it silly twat season or something? It is really awful to see so many posters in turmoil and on the edge. At least you are not at the really sharp end of the pain anymore.

MS sounds so funny, I always smile at the things she says. I love them at that age!

Skyebluesapphire Tue 08-Jan-13 20:53:47

It seems to be twat season doesn't it... I must admit that I'm struggling a bit at the moment. I go to a client's, put on a brave face, then cry all the way home before I get MS from school. Then cry again in the evening when she is in bed. A lot of it is hormonal I know, and I know that I need to get a grip.

I know that I need to stop thinking about him, but I still wake up in disbelief that I am divorced and that my husband no longer loves me and that he walked away from his DD and that I love him, but I hate him and I still have to communicate with him for the next 14 years or whatever.

Part of me would still like him to come back and everything be normal again and the rest of me knows that is bloody stupid and should never happen!!! I do not need a man who:

Cant make a decision to save his life

Cant communicate

Cant remember anything, then blames me for getting frustrated at having to tell him the same thing 8 million times slight exaggeration

Thinks its acceptable to text his best mates wife 100 times a day

Had a secret email account

Told his female friend things about me that he wouldnt say to me

Cant mix with other people in a social situation

Has 2 friends after 48 years. sorry 3 now, with OW

Has a totally disfunctional family who have no friends and fall out with everybody they meet or live next to

Cant control his spending and quite happy to live in debt

Can walk away from problems and jobs rather than sort things out

Can walk away from his own child, the child he thought he would never have!

Walked out on his marriage after getting obsessed with OW

Lied to me about contact with OW when confronted with it

Thinks he is a "really nice bloke", yet treated me with no respect after 10 years together

Buys ten rolls of sellotape when you need 1, or 20 pint glasses when you need 2

complained that he didnt get enough sex, yet fell asleep as soon as his head hit the pillow

agreed to everything I ever asked or suggested, then said I walked all over him

Wow, that was a long list, I feel better already grin

Proudnscary Tue 08-Jan-13 21:38:30

Wow honestly I am imagining him as some inadequate, gormless character in a sitcom... A big lumbering twit with a combover!



I think the trouble is that you had to get divorced to protect both you and MS house from him and his spending. Where as most people have 6 - 12 mths to get used to the idea and then get divorced.

But you had to do it quickly as you can see that he is spending money like water again. So now you are waiting for your heart to catch up with the rest of you.

It will happen but it may take a while.

Skyebluesapphire Tue 08-Jan-13 21:55:23

Proud - you are so wrong - he doesn't have a combover grin

tribpot Tue 08-Jan-13 22:01:55

Yet, skye. Doesn't have a combover yet wink

Skyebluesapphire Tue 08-Jan-13 22:25:18

He would if he stopped shaving his head grin

my neighbour has one and its awful when talking to him on a windy day and trying not to look directly at it grin

Skyebluesapphire Tue 08-Jan-13 22:28:00

well I feel much better now, have been trying to some wages, in between faffing around on facebook and MN! Going to go and relax and watch EE now.

Also, have got some good friends (that I made right here on MN and we are now RL friends on facebook) pimping my dating ad, so watch this space.....

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 09-Jan-13 12:32:34

Putting your toe in the water again, Skye? Good luck. It can't hurt to look.

wiseoldowl Wed 09-Jan-13 19:39:21

Hi Skye,
just checking in. I agree there are a lot of twunts...its clear your thread has become more about self preservation & getting it together re moving on, rather than the initial shock/terror of discovery.
If its any help my XH left 18 months ago (divorced nearly a year ago....he went quickly for divorce, left for a friends wife)....I still wake up in disbelief and cant believe I'm divorced at times.
My situation is still rumbling on as no financials yet resolved, I have tried to settle twice and both times he has gone back to the OW (I believe) who has told him not to accept it (I feel they are both laughing at me) I will go to court.
like you, I just am just staggered at times at how you can just turn your back on someone you were married to for so long (although i realise they disconnected well before we became aware)....& also the diabolical treatment of DC, justifyiing the behaviour, my DC unfortunately was there when the affair was uncovered and is very anti his father, so I am trying to encourage him to see him /stay neutral when in reality I despise him (& her).
I am a firm believer of what goes around comes around so they will get theirs.
I think your counsellor has been a great help to you, I can see that it has been very thought provoking and clearly an aid to getting you to address your own life.,
Anyway sorry to hijack, keep strong x

Skyebluesapphire Wed 09-Jan-13 20:59:03

wiseoldowl - thanks for that. its always helpful to hear others experiences and to know that what I am going through is still normal. I think that because I am divorced, everybody thinks that is the end of it, but in reality, it is still less than 12 months since my "loving husband" and "doting father" walked out on us.

It takes a long time to absorb a huge bomb shell like that.

I hope that you get your financial stuff sorted out. That is the one area where I was lucky, in that the twunt did what was morally right and walked away from the house too. That was his guilt talking. Its a shame that I am going to be left penniless anyway, due to legal fees for remortgaging/deed transfer and a huge tax bill that he should have paid.....

Onwards and upwards is the motto - and like you say - Karma should certainly get them in the end one way or another....

tribpot Wed 09-Jan-13 21:04:18

Was that the deal, skye, that you covered a tax bill of his? Not sure I understand that - tax isn't a shared liability, unless you part own his company?

Skyebluesapphire Wed 09-Jan-13 22:00:53

I took a wage from his business last year to reduce HIS tax bill. It meant that he saved 9% Class 4 NIC on the amount that was paid to me. It also meant that I then had to pay 20% tax on all my self employed earnings as I used all my personal allowance in my employment with him.

It was done as a joint saving overall between the two of us. When he walked out, I was then left to pay the tax of £1283 on my own..... So what I did to save US money, ended up saving him that money...... When he offered to walk away from the house, I said I would pay the tax as obviously in the long run it was the better deal, but it meant that I have had to find that money now.....

We bought a car in 2008 and I took £4K out of my ISA. He was supposed to repay half, but only ever repaid £150. Then we bought another car in 2011 and I put the balance on a 0% card, so was left with that debt as well. Obviously I still have the car, but I wouldnt have spent so much if I knew I would end up liable on my own to pay it.....

All in all, he has had several thousand out of me over the years.....

wiseoldowl Thu 10-Jan-13 12:57:25

Its hard, I agree.
My twunt has got half of my redundancy his name (obviously tax reasons) and I have little doubt that i will never see that again. I suppose I have to view it that whatever i get from the house my 'money' is in that instead.
I am so hooked on that James Arthur song at the moment ..... 'you left and so effortlessly', it practically brings me to tears every time i hear it.

Skyebluesapphire Thu 10-Jan-13 13:32:39

yes, you can make sure that your share of the house includes that money. At the time that XH said he would sign the house over, I was just looking at the bigger picture and agreed to anything. But obviously it means that I have no money now in the short term!

Im quite low again. I do actually miss him. I miss his company and his silly sense of humour and I miss the hugs. He was a big bloke, really tall and solid and I miss that. Things happen and I want to tell him. But I cant. I know that he would like things to be exactly the same as they were between us but without the marriage. ie friends who chat etc, but I really really cant do that. I need to protect myself in all of this and that is what he doesnt understand

I know that I am better off without him, but I struggle every now and then. I think in one way, that some of the shock is only really starting to come out now, when everything is settling down a bit.

I know that I will be OK. I just have to go through it...

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 10-Jan-13 15:19:33

Top post elsewhere Skye really admire you for yet again using your own recent experiences eg mediation to help another MNer thanks

Skyebluesapphire Thu 10-Jan-13 16:00:52

Thanks Donkeys

It helps me to help others, feels that at least Im getting something useful out of all the pain sad

My counsellor told me that I should be a counsellor. Its something that I considered in the past but didnt feel ready. I think that it is definitely something that I could consider in the future, when MS is older.

I just wish that I could take my own advice and get a grip and move on and stop thinking about twunt!

AutumnDreams Thu 10-Jan-13 16:07:26

I think you`re right when you say that you are only now feeling the full impact of what has happened. You fought like a tiger for your marriage, but once you finally accepted that it was over, you made sure that yours and Mini`s future was protected. Now that you have achieved that, and a routine has been put in place with regard to access, you finally have the time to dwell on the why`s and wherefore`s of what has been lost in the process. As with any loss, only time will heal you. Remember what I said to you months ago......Grief is the price we pay for love......You will get there.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 10-Jan-13 17:27:46

Very wise AutumnDreams and wiseoldowl (that song is a tearjerker isn't it? tell them I was happy...).

In time Skye you could well counsel others in rl.

Skyebluesapphire Thu 10-Jan-13 18:03:32

I'd need to toughen up to be a counsellor or else I would sit and cry with them, lol. I cried at Titanic..... there is no hope for me....

Thanks for all the support. Sometimes I wish I hadnt rushed into the divorce, what if he changed his mind and wanted to come back etc etc, but then I think, well he could still do that even if we are divorced..... BUT

I could not now live with a man who could be so deceitful. Even if it never went physical with OW, the fact remains that the man who detested cheaters, who could never do that to somebody, who detested men who left their children, could never do that himself... actually did those things to me and to MS. He treated me with no respect at all, after ten years together, 9.5 living together, 6 married.... He used to come home from work and talk about the office girls and tell stories of the men that they were with and how they treated them and he hated men like that.....

Oh how things changed with the smallest crumb of comfort from a woman 17 years younger.... young enough to be his daughter....

I owe it to myself, to have respect for myself and not want to live with somebody like that.

Im not sure what is going to happen in counselling tomorrow, she said that it wont be pleasant, that we need to discuss why I feel the way I do about things, and that we need to go right back.......

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 10-Jan-13 22:18:27

If your Twunt and everyone else's had been utter bastards to begin with, you wouldn't have got with them, let alone marry, have a child with them. It's just that people can change or let a mask drop, and we sometimes change too. Still distressing when your world implodes though.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 10-Jan-13 22:19:43

Good luck tomorrow Skye, meant to say.

wiseoldowl Fri 11-Jan-13 19:18:39

Exactly right Skye.
I could never live with someone who had been so deceitful....still stunned by it now! & its definitely about self respect.
Hope the counselling went well... I have never been & perhaps thinking I should have. Relate was useless but that was because I went trying to save my marriage but he went to help me realise it was over sad

Skyebluesapphire Fri 11-Jan-13 22:21:41

Well, the counselling went well, a bit upsetting, looked at feelings, she wanted me to think of a time that was wonderful and all I could think if was my wedding day and my birthday when he proposed. Then I had to think of anger fear etc.

she thinks that it all stems back to having been controlled as a child by my father that I ended up with a man who wouldn't control me. And also it has hurt me deeply to be labelled as controlling by XH because I am not controlling.

She is helping me to see that boundaries have to be set in order to stop thinking about XH, that I am not responsible for his relationship with his DD, that he needs to take responsibility for his own actions.

After talking to XBIL last night, it seems that XH is still hanging round with them all the time, won't consider moving in with his brother to save money as it would mean leaving his friends...

XBIL said that he never sees their mum, that he chose Christmas with his friends over his mum and brother. He said that XH has simply turned into a different person, that I'm the same person that I always have been and that it's XH who changed. He also said that it shows that I was the driving force behind XH as he is so disorganised now.

I was upset after the phone all but strangely today have a slightly clearer head, more validation I suppose that it was him not me....

Counsellor said that I need to accept that we were just two very different people, it's not his fault the way he is any more than I can help who I am and that it simply wasnt working for him any more.

She questioned again why I divorced him as he may have com back after some time. I said that I would never trust him again after the affair. She said but it wasnt an affair and I said it was repeated flirty secret contact! Emotional affair!

Today when I started feeling sad I started to think about what I will do next weekend when he has DD.

Feel drained but a lot clearer head at the moment.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 11-Jan-13 23:19:45

I was upset after the phone all but strangely today have a slightly clearer head

Well that's good, validation from someone who knows you both is encouraging, especially BIL who might if anything be less supportive to you out of loyalty to his brother. Not saying that his or anybody else's validation alone makes it all right but you've been working hard to see what went on.

Counsellor said... it simply wasnt working for him any more.

She questioned again why I divorced him as he may have com back after some time. I said that I would never trust him again after the affair. She said but it wasnt an affair and I said it was repeated flirty secret contact! Emotional affair!

I am a bit surprised she said this ^^ really, I know it's her job to be impartial and help you analyse what happened, was she playing devil's advocate?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 11-Jan-13 23:21:39

Anyway it's good if you feel clearer in your own mind and that was a good strategy, switching to another subject to ponder over when you felt a bit blue again. Altogether a good day?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 11-Jan-13 23:22:01

Could I say 'good' any more frequently?

Skyebluesapphire Sat 12-Jan-13 23:00:47

Well, I had a good day today. stayed at my mum's overnight so that I could do their accounts today while she looked after MS and cooked all my meals for me grin. It also meant that I could work and see MS without feeling guilty, as my mum kept her occupied. She loves her Nana.

Funny point of the day - she wanted a chocolate cake, so my mum said after dinner. I caught her licking the icing, she said, I dont remember what it tastes like, so I have to check it... she kept doing this until she had eaten the whole cake. By now her face is totally covered in chocolate, so I sent her out to my mum and she said "Nana, I haven't eaten that chocolate cake" with the evidence clearly all over her face grin. It was hysterical.....

I love that girl so much. She is so quaint, the things that she comes out with. She wanted to play Guess Who with me last night, so she picks a card, looks at it, gives it to me, then goes back and asks me questions, knowing full well which character Ive got grin. I then asked her for a different card and she said that i had to be a girl card because Im a girl. Then, she kept coming over and trying to look at my card, in all sorts of different ways so I couldnt possible know what she was doing.... she is too bright for her own good that girl...

She also told my mum a sob story about how I threw her last Malteser down the drain and what a naughty mummy I am..... (She dropped it on the pavement and tried to eat it, so I threw it down the drain as she wouldnt leave it alone and that pavement is usually covered in dog muck.....) I promised to buy her some more, so she reminded me yesterday and again today... so I had better buy her some tomorrow!

This is my first weekend of EOW contact and it is lovely knowing that I have a whole weekend with her to myself. She has a birthday party tomorrow. She has also just been invited to another one next week, when she will be with twunt, so I will text him and tell him and ask if he can take her. I will leave it to him to decide. It is not my problem when it is his weekend with her.

He's still messing me around over week contact with her though. He wants to see her on Monday not Wedsnesday and wont commit to the following Weds. So I have told him, we can do alternate Mondays and Wednesdays to fit in with EOW but he MUST commit to it. If he cant commit to a night in the week, then I will be booking her in the after school club and thats that. No more messing me around.

He never replies to my emails, texts or anything concerning contact, so I cant be bothered any more. Like the counsellor said, I cant force him to be a father to her and I am not responsible for his relationship with her.

tribpot Sat 12-Jan-13 23:05:47

She sounds like a scream, skye. Children are so funny.

Hopefully you will find EOW easier to cope with - since not every weekend will involve having to deal with the Twunt.

As he seems to make his demands but then refuses to reply to your response, I would stop responding to him at all, to be quite honest. What's the point? He clearly wants to push in that delightful passive-aggressive way of his for you to give him exactly what he wants, whilst having to do all the running to work out exactly what that is. Stop accommodating him at all. You agreed on Wednesdays. He has not honoured that agreement. You have stated you have no option but to use the after school club as a result - at your own expense. What else is there to discuss?

Skyebluesapphire Sat 12-Jan-13 23:32:04

exactly. I texted him to say are you seeing her weds, he says can it be monday, i said yes, next week, but i need commitment after that, you could do mon/weds alternate if it would help you....

so offering something that may be easier for him and he doesnt respond...

so yes, I have had about enough now....

tribpot Sat 12-Jan-13 23:48:17

Yes, plus you've given power to him again, made it look like it's still important to you to accommodate his wishes (which I genuinely don't think it is). By offering a permanent alteration for him to decide on you've given way too much ground. Plus as you know he's not actually capable of making a decision anyway.

Don't find solutions for him - it's not your job!

I would just say 'as I haven't put after school club arrangements in place yet, I can switch next week. After that plans and costs will be fixed'. The end.

Skyebluesapphire Sun 13-Jan-13 00:09:55

I know. It just makes me feel bad, when I offer him something to help and he cant even be bothered to respond..... whilst knowing that he manages to text OW every five minutes, yet cant respond to texts relating to contact with the daughter that he claimed to worship!

It isn't to accommodate his wishes, I just thought maybe if i tried to be a bit more reasonable with him, then I might feel better about everything, but it doesn't, like I said, it makes me feel worse because he cant even be bothered to respond to a nice offer.

i have had it with him. I wont be chasing him, its up to him from now on. If he cant communicate a time that he will collect DD for the weekend next Friday, then he cant expect me to be home when he turns up can he........

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Sun 13-Jan-13 00:13:52

tribpot said Mini Skye sounds like a scream, so's her father really confused aaaarrrggghhh!

tribpot Sun 13-Jan-13 08:51:25

Yes, he is a true delight hmm

skye you are banging your head on a brick wall. There is no point offering to be reasonable with someone so completely UNreasonable. So I would make no offer to him unless it happens to make life easier for you, or at least no worse. And make sure it is phrased in such a way that you aren't left waiting for a reply from him. Ideally this would be 'fine, unless I hear from you I will tell school that you will pick mini-skye up on Monday' and go through with this, i.e. not be available for the pick-up yourself. However, as experience has shown that he has no sense of the necessary commitment in juggling work and school, you have no other option but 'sorry, unless I hear from you with a firm commitment the answer is no'.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 14-Jan-13 10:10:16

Hello Skye hope you have a good day, Twunt still picking mini Skye after school today?

Skyebluesapphire Mon 14-Jan-13 18:16:16

I never heard any more from him, but he did collect her from school (I contacted another mum to make sure he had turned up.....) I managed to work from 9.30am to 5pm, so had a good day.

He has not bothered to reply to my suggestion of alternate weeks during the week. He did however agree to take her to a birthday party that falls on his weekend next Saturday, so that is something. I just texted him, she has party, can you take her. He said yes.

I have had a lovely weekend with her all to myself, but that means a whole weekend without her next weekend. I have planned lots of work to do and also a night down the pub with the girls on Friday. Nothing special just a few drinks and a laugh hopefully.

I have had a few tears here and there again, but if I start thinking about him, I try and think about something else, to stop it kicking in.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 14-Jan-13 18:25:14

Well that all sounds pretty positive to me Skye and sounds like you accomplished a lot today, work-wise.

Skyebluesapphire Mon 14-Jan-13 19:10:59

GRR.. spoke too soon... Twunt brings MS back at 6.45 instead of 6.30, then texts me to say that she hasnt had tea because she was at soft play... I text him to say , it is your responsibility to feed her when she is with you, he text back, its not easy when she is playing! I said, please ensure that you feed her before you go in future. He said, OK, I will make sure that she doesnt have any fun in future then!

What a childish way to respond..... I just replied and said, I am talking about you feeding our daughter at a sensible time and you react like a child. There is more to being a father than fun. It is about being responsible and caring for your child which includes feeding her. If you cannot feed your daughter when she is with you, then she will need to come home earlier.....

why is he such a useless twunt! If I take her to soft play, I feed her before we go, or feed her there.

<<bangs head frantically against wall, whilst looking for a sledgehammer to go and smash his stupid brains out>>

He either just a dick or he wants you to say he can't have her during the week so he can then blame you rather then take responsiblity for he himself.

I bet he got himself a coffee at the soft play so why didn't he think to get her something even if it was just a sandwich and a drink.

Skyebluesapphire Mon 14-Jan-13 19:44:12

he said she was too busy playing to eat, but that is no excuse. he is the parent, he should make her sit down and eat!

his contact time is to spend time with her, instead they go to soft play and she runs around while he plays with his phone..... so not much interaction there and no thinking involved.... the guy is a number one dickhead.

But yes, that was my next thought, he will say that I am making it too difficult to see her, because that is what he did last time when I asked him to commit to a set day each week.......

For Gods Sake.

My children are often to busy playing to eat, unfortunately for them it's not an option I tell them to eat and stop playing. As I am their parent and I tell them what to do.

To me it sounds like he to busy texting OW for work to interact with MS.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Mon 14-Jan-13 20:10:13

Can't Do is an undercurrent with him isn't it. So used to Skye sorting him out. (Off to look for spare sledgehammer).

tribpot Mon 14-Jan-13 20:13:24

OK, I will make sure that she doesnt have any fun in future then!

Yes - because the few hours after school are about:
- homework (increasingly so as mini-skye moves up the school)
- other practice like instruments
- eating
- rest

and then and ONLY then, if there's time, some fun. That's what week day contact is about. If he prefers not to provide that kind of structure it might be better if he focuses on quality time at the weekend. He should count himself lucky he's not also have to incorporate stuff like getting uniform clean overnight, finding the wellies because it's snowing, etc etc times one hundred!

As he won't respond even if you try and deal with this with him when you've calmed down, I think you know what to do next. When is he next scheduled for weekday contact?

Skyebluesapphire Tue 15-Jan-13 09:51:08

He won't commit to when he can see her next week. I am going to text him and say - what time are you picking her up on Friday and will you be seeing her on Weds next week.

If he says he doesnt know, then I will tell him that she is going in the after school club on weds.

tribpot Tue 15-Jan-13 11:45:06

I would make it so that you're not waiting on his answer or non-answer, skye.

Why not text to say 'please confirm pick-up time on Friday. After school club is booked for Wednesday but I can cancel this with XX hours' notice [48?] if you are able to see her then'.

Skyebluesapphire Tue 15-Jan-13 12:13:41

I text twunt to ask if he will see DD next Wednesday and he said he will "probably skip it due to work" ... I replied and said as from next week she will be unavailable on Wednesdays as she will be in the Out of School Club. (You have to give a weeks notice if they are not going in. It costs £3 an hour, which I will have to pay, but it means that I will still clear £10 an hour.

He said he will let me know pickup time on Friday morning, which is fair enough because he doesnt know what he is doing each day until it arrives and the work comes in.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 15-Jan-13 12:19:06

Kind of ongoing with him dithering but you are doing well keeping things business-like and DD sorted out, he will cotton on he needs to plan ahead for her.

Skyebluesapphire Tue 15-Jan-13 13:08:31

Donkeys - presume it was you who reported DD's name in post, thanks for that (again) blush. I keep doing that!! Have asked them to remove it..

tribpot Tue 15-Jan-13 13:27:41

What did your mediation agreement say specifically about Wednesday access, skye? Just wanting to make sure he can't replay this conversation as you denying agreed access.

As to the Fridays - well, if your work was unpredictable you'd still make an arrangement to ensure mini-skye was looked after. Provided it's no inconvenience to you not to know the exact time until the day - fine. But if it is, why should his working pattern dictate your arrangements? Bloody check of the guy. I didn't realise he was providing voluntary back-up childcare.

Skyebluesapphire Tue 15-Jan-13 13:49:53

Mediation, he refused to commit to a day due to work, then agreed to Wednesdays, but would give me 24 hours notice if he couldn't and we would see how this worked out. From then on he turned up every Weds without fail, until December, then he said it would only be for December, now it seems to be January as well.

I said that its not working out for me, having 24 hours notice, as I have to give one week notice to put her in after school club and neighbour getting a bit fed up at having her at short notice (dont blame her).

So I have said as previously stated in mediation, that if he cant commit, it cant be Weds. He can see her another day if she is available...

tribpot Wed 16-Jan-13 18:28:40

Okay, sounds like you're well within your rights to call time on the experiment. Would other days be easier if he wanted to see her at short notice? I don't think I'd like the unsettled nature of not knowing in advance what the plan is. And given you would need to keep any mid-week contact relatively brief since it is 'impossible' for him to feed her or supervise homework or whatever, it hardly seems worth it for dd.

Skyebluesapphire Wed 16-Jan-13 22:24:17

Exactly.. He can see her other days if she is free, but its not fair on her not knowing when she is going to see him and him just turning up at school! He just doesnt get it though...

I had a couple of emails come through his old account tonight, basically him and OW arranging a cinema date yesterday, she says hehe it will be great and that she's is excited and cant decide what to wear.......then she says she is gutted that she cant see him tomorrow now and he says me too, then he says I wish you could come with me... He told me that he was working today and couldnt see DD, but obviously had plans with OW, then obviously got some work he couldnt get out of..

I do know that it is none of my concern now, he is a free man, but she isn't and this is the first actual "proof" that there is more going on than just friendship.... I just see it in a nosy curious sort of way now... the emails will stop at some point when my old email account finally stops working....

It is actually helping me though, because one of the worst things that I do is torment myself by thinking round and round in circles, what if, if only, why didnt he, etc etc,... and I now know that it really wasn't me, it was him, it was him falling for her that ended our marriage so abruptly. The more proof of that I have, the better I feel because he made me feel so worthless as a person.

He is just a lying , cheating, scumbag, who would rather be with OW than his DD

tribpot Wed 16-Jan-13 23:03:23

I read on another thread where you'd quoted the conversation verbatim, with all the kisses, skye. I would be well tempted to write back to both of them saying quite simply "these have been sent to me in error".

Now, I know they actually haven't been sent to you but rather to a shared mail account of yours and his? But even so, it would be hilarious to call him out on this. It depends if you think you might get better material if you let them keep emailing using an account you can access, but I do think it would be better to knock it on the head. They've done enough damage with the email thread and it will be amusing to think of them shitting themselves about what you might do next! It's not healthy for you to have access to their thoughts, better you don't know what crap is going on in his private life.

I assume the poor bugger of a OW's H is off somewhere whilst this is going on.

Skyebluesapphire Wed 16-Jan-13 23:21:14

I posted it in that thread as I thought it would get more traffic and opinion.

I do need to try and block them somehow, but they should stop when the email account finally closes. I know I shouldn't read them...

I feel sorry for her H, but then again he is H no 2, so knows what she is like... But I fail to see how they can continue to claim to be JGF if he were to see the emails.....

tribpot Thu 17-Jan-13 07:14:17

I think you just need to tell them to stop using the email account, if it's one you still need to access. Otherwise tell your ex to change the password, or close the account yourself.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 17-Jan-13 09:04:25

Like everyone else I often feel sorry for OW's H but how do we know he isn't totally aware of this situation? How about if he thinks giving his wife a free pass when it comes to seeing Twunt - better she sees good old Mr Skye than have her frisk about with strangers? He may have persuaded himself he can trust both not to go beyond a certain point.
Wouldn't someone warned by a twunt's wife on the precipice of divorce think, hang on, maybe she's onto something?

Keep a copy Skye don't bank on it being useful in terms of inform

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 17-Jan-13 09:05:23

Oops, informing Twunt's best friend.


I agree with everyone else. I would let twunt know that he is not seeing MS because he seeing OW. I hope OW isn't using MS as an excuse as to why she is spending the day with him. As in telling her H that she helping twunt with MS because he has to work and has no one to look after her.

wiseoldowl Thu 17-Jan-13 12:56:01

trouble is Skye (I think its been said before) that with joint parental responsibility they can do what they like (within reason).
I dont agree with my XH wanting to keep forcing my DS to see OW (DS has repeatedly said he doesnt want to - he knows her, she was a 'friend') XH wont take no for an answer sad
you just need to be there for the DCs so that they can come to terms with it in their own way. DS is certainly getting stronger for it and is becoming very annoyed at his fathers lack of empathy/respect....but that's up to them to resolve as I see it.

Anniegetyourgun Thu 17-Jan-13 14:29:15

Lying about eating cakes they so obviously have eaten is kind of cute when they do it aged 4. When they're still doing the equivalent decades later, not so much.

Skyebluesapphire Thu 17-Jan-13 16:15:48

smile at Annie - my XH used to eat everything in sight. I would eat say one of something, put the rest in the fridge, then the next day would fancy another one, then realise that the other eleven had been eaten....

Like you say, at the age of 48, not so cute!

Skyebluesapphire Thu 17-Jan-13 16:17:19

As for having his cake and eating it too, well, one day the bubble will burst, his life will go totally tits up and by then I will be happy and so much happier without his presence in my life smile

tribpot Thu 17-Jan-13 16:19:14

Yes - the OW is likely only to remain compliant as long as she is getting her own way in everything. Good luck with that!

Skyebluesapphire Thu 17-Jan-13 18:54:33

The thing is, if I do send the emails to her H, and he chucks her out, then it forces their hand, no doubt she will move in with my XH.... I think that her H deserves to know, but then again, if he is that deluded that he cant see what is going on in front of his nose, would he even believe the emails?! He would probably just dismiss them and they will lie about it, so whats the point...

Mind you, the sooner she moves in with XH, the sooner she will probably move out again, haha.... they are so not compatible as a couple, its unreal... he thought I was bad, wait til he lives with her grin

tribpot Thu 17-Jan-13 19:01:44

Yup, I wouldn't tell him at this stage, skye. For one thing I'm not entirely certain you should have been accessing the email account so it looks a bit bad. For another you're quite right he will dismiss it - or they might even have a sinister arrangement like Donkeys suggests. They'll say they use the term 'date' like friends do - you know, like a lunch date.

Whether she moves in with your Twunt, and whether that happens now or later is none of your concern (barring the unresolved issue of her language to mini-skye). There's no point worrying about that - I see it as inevitable at some point. They will escalate things and the OWH will catch them in the act, or will be presented with evidence even he can't ignore. Like his parents finding out or something. At that point the H may be more interested in listening to what you can corroborate. It's a waste of ammo to fire it now (at least as far as the H is concerned, I would still tell your ex that he's using an account you have access to).

Like Tribpot I wouldn't give it to him yet, but I would keep it to give to him when he finally see whats happening.

Skyebluesapphire Fri 18-Jan-13 09:58:23

yes, I agree. I have been googling and it appears to be illegal to access somebody's mail, but this is being sent to my email account, Im not hacking into it or anything, so hopefully I can't get locked up grin

I will hold onto it and yes, can pass it on to him as and when required.

I just still really can't believe that my XH could cheat on his best mate, that's more of a shock than cheating on me really! He's know him since they were kids!

It just shows how the power of OW can suck them in and make them totally disregard everything that they hold dear in their life, friends, family, work..... He is obviously skipping work to spend time with her.

It helps me, because I tortured myself, because I wanted holidays and he didnt , he wanted to be free to work evenings and weekends, blah blah blah, and he destroyed me as a person with that nasty letter, which is why I went to counselling to begin with....

so it helps me now, to see that actually everything he said was untrue, because he now happily skips work to see her and doesnt work evenings or weekends, so it proves that it was all lies just to leave.

The truth of the matter is what I said all along.. we had a difficult patch before Christmas 2011, with illness, death, difficult child. No doubt he was unhappy and stress, as was I. OW came along at the perfect moment, to make him feel wanted, helpful and stroking his ego by telling him how wonderful he was and that he deserved to be happy etc etc.

I do feel like this is now a real turning point for me. I'm sure that I will still have down days, but I really can see now that I will be OK, and him, because of the choices he has made, will not. He certainly won't end up living happily ever after with OW, will he?....... not with her track record!...

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 18-Jan-13 10:20:56

Wow Skye,
it helps me now, to see that actually everything he said was untrue... it proves that it was all lies just to leave

I think this is quite a major step forward, you must feel vindicated knowing this is the kind of stunt Twunt has been pulling. Colossal re-writing of shared history to put you on the back foot is confusing, you must question your own memory sometimes.

Skye do you remember before Christmas, mini Skye came home one day from being with Twunt and she told you OW had been there, very upset? I wonder looking back, if there was some sort of confrontation with best friend, whether he had challenged her and she had had to either admit or deny some part of her closeness to Twunt?

Well, who knows.

More counselling today?

Skyebluesapphire Fri 18-Jan-13 10:44:37

things are definitely stepping up between XH and OW, so it can only be a matter of time before its all out in the open. His family will be horrified, as although the mother had a go at him , they have still denied that he would actually be carrying on with her, "because he's not like that"..... They dont like her at all, and she speaks her mind, so I can see him getting alienated from his family... he has thrown away his entire life, all for a younger woman, who will leave him like she has left the rest..... Karma WILL get him definitely.

I should have had counselling today, but have been snowed off.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 18-Jan-13 10:48:28

Your ex in-laws will be repenting he threw you aside, if OW gets her claws into him. Hah!

Proper cold snap isn't it, hope the snow doesn't prove too bothersome.

Skyebluesapphire Fri 18-Jan-13 11:14:13

They surely will. I didnt agree with a lot of what XMIL said, but I bit my tongue and never bit back and XH knows that. I did it to ensure that he still saw his family, as his ex girlfriend hated any contact with them. His mum will not like the circumstances of them getting together when they do come clean and XBIL will be very disappointed as he has defended Twunt to the hilt in the fact that he would not cheat, that its just a bit of an obsessive friendship...

OW actually called XSIL an old slapper in a conversation with me... I can just imagine how well that would go down if that little snippet was passed on grin

My main concern is that he doesn't ditch MS for OW... EOW contact has to be just that and I am concerned that if OW ends up living with him and wants to do stuff at the weekend, then he will ditch MS. I will have to remind him that one of the reasons he left me was because he wanted to spend more time at home grin.

I do feel very sad actually, that he threw it all away... It is helping me to know that my very first inital instinct was right, but I feel so sad, that he threw away everything. and if him and OW do get together and break up, he will no doubt move away from the town that he is in, because she is the only reason that he is there..... so he could end up further away from MS and seeing less of her....

I just need to concentrate on her now and keep her safe and happy and sit back and watch while his life self destructs.....

tribpot Fri 18-Jan-13 11:17:28

It's important not to view him as the victim of some predatory female. It denies the extent to which his weakness led him astray (perhaps when temptation presented itself, perhaps simply because he leeches off strong people and when you were vulnerable he attached himself to the next nearest 'host').

This is not about powerless 'OW' and powerless 'men' (you say 'they' a lot in your post). He is the only one with responsibility for what has happened. He failed.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 18-Jan-13 11:17:49

He's 48, surely he'll want to be settled by his half century? He's acting like a younger, 20-something man.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 18-Jan-13 11:20:47

I do feel like this is now a real turning point for me...I really can see now that I will be OK

Fantastic mind set, Skye. I know you want only the best for your DD but what her father achieves is beyond your control.

trustissues75 Fri 18-Jan-13 11:30:04

Hi Sky

I've not posted on your other threads...just lurked...but can I say well done for pushing on through? I went through/am still going through a similar thing and it's so hard not to send yourself crazy...especially when you know what your instincts are telling you.

You're so very very strong.

Skyebluesapphire Fri 18-Jan-13 11:48:21

trib - thats exactly what my counsellor said, that he can't cope with being the strong one, for all his shouting that he doesnt want to be controlled, his nature is such that he cannot do anything without the approval of somebody else, and now his tail wagging is all directed at OW.

Yes, it is his weakness, completely that led to all of this. He did not have to get drawn in by her, he could have just stepped away from it all, but chose not to. He is gullible beyond belief.

OW is definitely the sort who gets what she wants though, I have had a discussion with her H's XP and she said that she decided that she wanted him and that was that. Yes, his weakness again, but OW definitely goes after what she wants......

and in this case she wanted the emotionally supportive man with the lovely DD...... its funny, because I never met that emotionally supportive man when he was with me!

Be careful what you wish for, thats the saying isn't it??!!

Donkeys - thanks for the support as always

Trustissues - thanks for the comment, it means a lot, I dont always feel strong, but am trying my hardest. Im sorry if things are bad for you, hope they get better soon

tribpot Fri 18-Jan-13 18:21:04

The other thing I would say (and have said, a number of times smile ) is that the man you married never existed. He kept up appearances of the man you wanted him to be whilst it was relatively easy to do so. He is following the exact same pattern with OW. He's been nobly 'supporting' her whilst it's cost him no effort / she is grateful. But that just feeds his ego in the same way you did when you were so besotted with him. He is not capable of truly supporting another human being.

Skyebluesapphire Sat 19-Jan-13 02:01:01

Trib- yes you are right as always, I have said before that the ex is a chameleon who becomes what his girlfriend wants him to be.... He went out with a woman into surfing so took that up... Never did it again once they split. Same with every relationship, he is so eager to please , he becomes what you want.

Classic example now with OW, going to see Les Mis film, the one show he said he had no interest in seeing in London as it just did not appeal to him...

I said to somebody tonight, better off alone than with a man like that...

So many times I heard him say, including the day he walked out, "the trouble with me is I'm such a nice bloke that I get taken advantage of" ....


Skyebluesapphire Sat 19-Jan-13 02:05:30

Mini Skye came home from school tonight and her boots had fallen apart , so I text him and said - her school boots have broken, as she is with you all weekend I can't take her shopping so as you live in town, please buy her some new boots for school, black or brown, size 11, please get her feet measured and make sure they fit properly.

He texted back, OK

So I'm assuming he will pay for them! I did say they don't have to Clarks boots,

Xales Sat 19-Jan-13 09:23:40

You need to stop thinking about what mays.

At the end of the day you have pointed out his mother isn't so nice so OW could be welcomed with open arms into the family. He is their family so she and he as a couple may be all hunkydory.

Whatever happens isn't anything to do with you.

You are waiting for a fall out that may never happen and which will leave you feeling more shit as they fail to provide the rightious wrath and condemnation you are waiting for.

While we are all hoping that they get revealed for what they truly are remember you all knew OW had an affair with and got with your ex's friend. Your all accepted that. Did the best friends family accept her and him despite them being dirty cheats? Did you and your ex accept them both especially him as the dirty OM?

Complete real disinterest is when you know you are beyond them. Hoping and waiting for the fall out holds you back.

Think of them and it all like sand bags on a hot air balloon. Cut them free watch them plummet and soar away free and light.

trustissues75 Sat 19-Jan-13 10:18:24

I wish they had a like button for posts. Xales, you're so right. When one has experienced that level of hurt form someone they trusted it is so hard and understandable to want to see them fall arse over elbow and struggle to get up again - and if it does happen it feels good, temporarily. But no matter what happens in the future, it doesn't change the past - which is what it is. Holding onto anger, which can be helpful in certain situaations especially if the person responsible for hurt is still in a position of power and manipulation over the receiver, is limiting and effectively offering up free rent in the person's headspace to someone who deserves nothing free gratis.

tribpot Sat 19-Jan-13 11:01:39

True - although my feeling is that skye isn't waiting for the fall any more in the way that she was a few months ago. Her life isn't on hold, she's moving forwa