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anyone like to hve a discuss without having a total go at me, in a situation that is not easy.

(90 Posts)
littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 18:20:52

Ok have namechanged.

I had an emotional affair with a married man, which last a few months. I told him to go back to relying on his wife not me. A year passed. We bumped into each other again, and the texts started. We met up for coffee, he said he couldn't not be with me, wanted to give us a chance. I KNOW from that second I should have said then leave her first. Both of us going thru some very hard times, me with my children, him with his. Think illness and money probs.

His wife knew he had got involved with me inappropriately, but they didn't discuss it, swept it away and in that year their life carried on the same. He said, when we met up again, nothing had changed, they had grown apart and that it weren't for the kids he would not be with her. She knows now that he 'saw' me for a while, he told her, and she said that she wanted to stay together for the kids. HIs whole family have said the same.

Ok bring it up to date. I have trawled the net, looking for info on EA, on reasons they happen. Looked religiously on here for any help, but i have never found anyone or anywhere to discuss what happened to me. I know i am risking a total bollocking now, for giving in to the advances of him. But i did, and it's left me in a bad place. The upshot is i have called it a day, as despite his promises to me, that he felt very clear that his marriage is over. Now they know, (the children)that mum and dad are thinking about splitting, he says he cannot bare to leave them. Says he loves me but can't follow his heart over loyalty to his children.

This is another bit. I totally get this. If i fell in love with someone but I had to choose between that person, and leaving my children to the care of their father, and not see them every day. Well I couldn't.

My mother left my dad, and that near killed her, but the one thing she had for certain was knowing she had her babies with her.

He has said, he loves me, and doesn't love his wife anymore, and that she feels she would prefer to carry on as before for the kids too. He had told her he was leaving, they discussed that they had not been happy for along time, and she agreed that very soon the kids will leave home and their relationship was not close anymore.

So, hard as this was to write, and it prob even comes across cold in places, but it's all i can do right now because i have been properly hurt, despite trying to end it or call it for weeks. What do you think about the man being very close to his children and not being able to physically leave them. Or do you think, if things were that bad he would do it anyway? I believe there is probably something worth saving for them. Well i did more so a year ago when i told him to go and talk to her not me. They have history, and children so I guess that can be enough to have a comfortable future.
I am all over the shop with this, and i can normally write more clearly, but would like some views, or even better some experiences personal or other wise of when a marriage comes to an end, but it's the man who is most unhappy but stays. tia

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 18:22:30

just to add i am single.

Doha Tue 11-Dec-12 18:31:06

Bottom line if he wanted to he would be with you.

Staying for the Dc's is in most cases a pile of shite as unhappy parents can affect the children quite badly in terms of future relationships. Are you sure he has discussed staying with his wife??
However l can understand him not wanting to be away from the kids but what happens when the kids leave home!!!!!!

thenightsky Tue 11-Dec-12 18:33:18

Gosh. Your head sounds a mess, so I feel very sorry for you in that respect. I'm not sure what you are asking (if you are indeed asking for anything) by starting this thread.

Some will say he wants his cake and to eat it too... you there to call on whenever he feels like it, plus a cosy home wtih wife, kids, clean clothes and hot food etc.

On the other hand, he could be tormented with feeling torn between being with you and staying with his children.

So, do you want to hang on for what could be an endless amount of time waiting for him to make his mind up (perhaps not till his kids are adult)?

NatashaBee Tue 11-Dec-12 18:34:32

I think you're trying to give yourself false hope that he really loves you, not his wife, and he is only staying for the children. Whilst you're still clinging to that, you won't be able to move on.

Even if he did leave to be with you - why would you want him? You already know he has form for infidelity and can't be trusted. How do you know he wouldn't cheat on you if you two became a couple? You don't - because he's done it before.

Doinmummy Tue 11-Dec-12 18:36:39

I think it's clear that he won't leave his wife. I'd try to have no more contact at all with him. Concentrate on developing healthy relationships with people that are honest and above all available . He will make you ill.

Mumofjz Tue 11-Dec-12 18:38:16

If he can't leave his kids, then he must put his family first - FAMILY being the wife and children. You can not be part of it.

The kids will be devastated whatever the age and personally i think more so the older they are as they will understand more clearly that the family life they will look back on will be based on lies.

If he can't make the move, then i'm afraid you must, bow out graciously and leave him to live his life. You need to live yours and this isn't the man to do it with if he can't commit to you wholey

SoHHKB Tue 11-Dec-12 18:45:06

You have my sympathy - I was in a very similar position for a while and it was very hard to know what was for the best. I felt I had promised to stand by him but that he kept changing his mind about what he wanted. Also - and this is a big point - I had no real idea what he was telling his wife and couldn't rely on what he was telling me.
Basically, he was in a pretty bad place emotionally and eventually I realised he was dragging me down with him.
You are worth more than to be continually let down or second best and there are men out there who will be with you because they want to be with you and nothing will stand in their way. Look after yourself [hug]

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 18:45:50

we havent spoken for 3 weeks. decided, after his children overheard the discussions. he needed to reflect on this. they were in bits. obviously. and i felt like utter shit. the reality kicked in.

we didn't speak by text for two weeks. i realized i needed space too.

He has never told his wife in that time he wants to stay, just that he is now undecided. i said, look i understand that you love them and want to stay, and that for you you cannot get your head round doing that. So stay, i can totally understand it, as i could not imagine leaving my children's home.
HIs last words to me by text are that he knows he will regret losing me, that it's his own fault for not being stronger. and that 'I can't understand, why i can't be with you.

I have lost a whole load of respect for him, not for his decision, but the way he has handled it. When he promised he would not keep me in the dark. He would say it's because his mind is still not made up, the shock of seeing the children (teens) so upset has thrown him. Yet, althought i have supported him in this, i feel that I am suffering and that he needed to be told enough is enough. I mean it too. I just feel very sad.

if i am not answering direct points it is because my head is swirling, and i feel so ill with the strain. I feel like i have been to nice to him, for too long. too understanding. stupid maybe. but hard when someone says thats it no going back i want to be with you. then they do. and they don't even know the reason properly. x

NatashaBee Tue 11-Dec-12 18:48:04

'I can't understand, why i can't be with you.

Because he is a cheating knobber with a wife and children. He needs to step up and take responsibility for his actions, and stop playing the 'star crossed lover' role.

Hatpin Tue 11-Dec-12 18:49:15

How do you know his wife knows about your affair?

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 18:49:47

thankyou. i mean it. it's been so hard. i feel foolish too. but i do know i have pushed him away many times.

i have worked on me, and knew deep down, well the last week it was coming to this.

You are right, i have no idea what he is telling his wife. He told his cousin about about how his wife verbally abuses their eldest daughter, and he feels he can't leave her to it.

SoHHKB Tue 11-Dec-12 18:50:26

He is playing the 'poor me' card so he keeps you on side just in case
Take a deep breath and ignore, ignore, ignore - I wish you luck x

EdithWeston Tue 11-Dec-12 18:50:44

He has shown himself to be capable of lying to his wife (by concealing the EA with you). I think you should realise there is a very strong possibility that he is lying to you about her. Everything you say shows that this is a man who is deeply attached to both his wife and his children, even though he is behaving despicably towards them at the moment.

You definitely have not got the full story of what is going on in his marriage.

I think you are selling yourself short, and closing off the possibility of finding a decent (non-cheating) relationship where you will be the first and public choice, if you settle for years as the OW.

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 18:51:48

he told her. we have a person in common who knows he did. she also contacted me.

Lovingfreedom Tue 11-Dec-12 18:53:05

Yeah... guys like this are generally talking a lot of bullshit to everyone....and whether he is or not...he's never going to leave his wife for you...you know that. Sorry you're in this position - can't be easy. Good luck.

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 18:54:08

he told her about the EA. but your right, how much did he tell her. had he told her he had fallen for me she may well have kicked him out right there eh. so actually he sold her short, and as i have read on other threads, she didn't even know what she was fighting for as i guess he also thought, it's over with littleknown so let it go.

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 19:01:57

i know i will be ok. i got involved with something i hoped would turn out ok. i havent had anyone in my life for 8 yrs since my ex dh left rather abruptly, so although i should have know better, because the ea was wrong and a mess, i suppose i thought he was going to be the one. I am not particulary young, and thought perhaps i could handle it, by that i mean it would all come clear and i had enough life experience to know things like this happen to marriages. Hey it happend to my parents, and to me, and three of my best friends-marriages ending i mean.

i gave way too much. i deserve this outcome, lesson learnt.

ISayHolmes Tue 11-Dec-12 19:08:03

Totally agree that he's probably been lying to you and putting a spin on the entire situation. He's probably lying to himself as well to make cheating on his wife more palatable to himself. Convince himself their relationship is on the rocks and suddenly it becomes so much more acceptable to devote time and energy to another woman rather than his wife and children. Sorry, but he could he getting counselling with his wife, spending time with his family in an attempt to bring them closer, making an effort with date nights, or even leaving his relationship and trying to set up 50/50 contact...instead he's living in a fantasy land that he has no intention of making into a reality.

I 100% believe you'll never hear the truth about their marriage. Instead you'll just get the perspective he's chosen to minimise his guilt and make his actions "acceptable". It will sound very plausible and real, but ever notice how it's the same story over and over again with these men? "We've grown apart" "We're only together for our children" "We hardly even talk any more". Part of the reason that might even be the case is that the cheating spouse has checked out of the relationship and is busy thinking about and paying attention to another woman: THAT'S what helps kill off a marriage too. It can even be the start of all the problems as the EA/PA inevitably leads to one half of the marriage being moody, secretive, building up imaginary resentments and failing to even try to work on their marriage. It affects the home life and probably hasn't helped his relationship with his children either. There is an impact.

Never talk to him again and cut off contact completely.

MrsHarryPearce Tue 11-Dec-12 19:10:46

hi there! Non of this makes you a bad person. Google 'limerence' and read some of the articles. Now, I'm not saying that is you but it helped me put things in perspective by thinking that in a funny sort of way I may not be entirely responsible for my mixed up feelings over someone. if in some way you can take on board that someone loves you very much but can't be with you then use that to make you feel strong. then also tell yourself that there is no guarentee either of you would be happie together because of all the baggage etc. it is so so hard but at least you are loved.

jingleallthespringy Tue 11-Dec-12 19:11:11

wow, look how much agony he's put at least two women through, plus the kids sad

AnitaManeater Tue 11-Dec-12 19:11:21

I bet he's loving all the attention and drama.

SoHHKB Tue 11-Dec-12 19:15:47

Try not to beat yourself up nearly impossible, I know Pat yourself on the back for recognising now that this is not a good situation and treat yourself to something nice for every day you spend out of contact. Get involved in other things, make plans with friends, get on a dating site - just for a giggle and a bit of distraction rather than anything serious (although be fair and make it clear that that's what you're there for!) Ultimately, don't go down the route of blaming yourself entirely - he has played his part in this too

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 19:29:47

will look into that link thanks.

he says he isn't enjoying the drama, but i also feel he enjoys being miserable/living in a fantasy in equal measures. it's very hard to be subjective on this, as my heart/history/nurture/desires/feelings are involved. As i have said i have a great need to understand this, to be able to process and let go. i think that's why i have sought out mumsnet. I have been here for 7 yrs, and it's part of every day.
I believe he stands for or at least stood for 'the family'. Until he met me.

I will not contact him again. He has drained the life out out of me. I tried to be the fixer, i guess. the voice of reason. why??? i need to give that to someone who is free to give that back.

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Tue 11-Dec-12 19:34:52

Think how much time you have spent on this person. Time shared with his wife and DCs. You could be with someone available and know their time is yours. Why waste more time on this man who has no qualms treating his family and you so poorly? I would say this whether you were 24 or 64. He will always have an excuse, a reason, a justification. I think people can be adept at what stories they spin, who knows how he painted you to his wife!

If you wait for his children to grow up and leave home, then his wife will be ill, or finances precarious, or, or... poor him! Why orbit him, why squander time. Enough already.

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 20:01:23

yes, i know that now. He promised to leave, said he had given his marriage a go, has said all sorts. I am a trusting person. Till yesterday he still 'didn't know' till i told him that's it, enough.

I feel really ill, and i don't need this in my life. i have two kids who rely on me, no family about. I want to be happy again!

DonkeysInTheStableAtMidnight Tue 11-Dec-12 20:42:59

Then you put your energy into getting well and have a good Christmas, your DCs deserve your best and you can get past this and make New Year yours, no emotional passengers.

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange Tue 11-Dec-12 20:44:59

I really feel for you. It's horrible being in love with someone who's unavailable and I speak from experience. I agree with those who say he is unlikely to leave his wife.

You are right to see that you have to move on from this dysfunctional man. Just be grateful you haven't had a physical affair (unless you have but you don't want to say on MN and I wouldn't blame you).

In your position I would do a bit of internet dating, to boost your self esteem and take your mind off him. You could even have a bit of no-strings sex.

Good luck smile

izzyizin Tue 11-Dec-12 20:59:53

It's probable this man isn't happy with his dw and he will leave her at some point in time - but he's not going to leave her for you, honey.

You've been a bridge to how it could be for him and one day he'll walk over you into the arms of an ow

It's within our power to create happiness for ourselves. Instead of looking to others to make you happy, use this experience to learn and grow and make your life full of joy.

HisstletoeAndWhine Tue 11-Dec-12 21:12:20

I do feel for you, this tosser did a great number on you, when you were already vulnerable.

What is clear from this is that during the relationship, your self esteem/image was at rock bottom.

Hopefully, you seeing sense, ending it difinitively will start your rise back to the full potential you once had, before your H, before this poor excuse.

Spend time investing back in you. You were doing the wrong thing, now you've chosen to change that path, good for you.

Demand the best for yourself, never ever again accept second best. Aim higher. You'll get there.

bluethimble Tue 11-Dec-12 21:46:27

Be gentle on yourself. very gentle. I can relate to your situation, a lot. Keep breathing. slowly a little time passes and slowly it becomes easier to see a bit more clearly. to understand a little bit more about yourself. in every love lies the seed of our growth. xx

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 21:47:20

lovely ladies.

thankyou for inspiring me to aim higher. it is so hard when are you in the thick of it. i am glad a posted here now, it was difficult to write. x

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 21:49:17

if it would be helpful for anyone to share please do. maybe we need a little place, not to be vilified totally, but rather somewhere to share what are our experiences like this.

SnowProbs Tue 11-Dec-12 21:50:31

I dont think all married men who cite their children as a reason for not leaving their marriages are bullshitters just following a script.

I have a male friend who is in love woth a woman who is not his wife. His reason for not leaving his marriage is that 'women always get custody...and I cant bear the thought of not waking up every morning with my kids'. I think we can all identify with that, as mothers, surely?

It is unreasonable to continue cheating on your wife, or stringing an OW along, though....

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 21:52:45

have been on internet dating sites for ages. not met anyone. did have a few encounters in the early yrs of dh leaving. I have one child who has been ill and emotionally not in a good place for some time, so having 'him' to rely on was a great change in my daily life.

I feel he has done a number on me, but also still feel that he does he have genuine love for me, but it's obviously not in the right context.

LessMissAbs Tue 11-Dec-12 21:56:25

Why would he leave his wife? When he has her as security and you for fun?

And I bet he would also lose out financially.

Of course the ideal is to cut contact but you may be unable to do so. Perhaps you could try to get things more on your terms. He sounds very good at dictating the pace of this and getting his own way, so why don't you start introducing things you can and cannot do? Even if for no particular reason. For example, you can no longer see or text to him on Fridays. Or every second weekend. Or something similar.

Or meet someone else/make the bastard jealous?

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 21:57:33

snowprobs, that is the one sticking point that kills him. getting his head round that. This is why i said, i couldn't do it myself, to my children and so i understood. He has told his wife, and the teens know. He tried to explain it to them, but one was so distraught it has affected him more than he realised it would.

I feel huge guilt when i forget to send my son into school with money for some special treat. iyswim. Sounds trite, but he adores his children and it's killing him. I didn't want to be the one he chose really, if it meant he would never forgive himself.

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 21:59:40

oh we havent seen each other for months and months until about a month ago. Even then, as i said we were having an EA, we didn't go out and about. I got on with my life he with his. all the while, thinking of each other every day.

Then bam we bumped into each other. I have ended it.

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 22:00:55

my terms since we bumped into each other, were, leave. which he agreed to. looked around for somewhere to live. then hasn't.

badinage Tue 11-Dec-12 22:05:10

Look at the facts here. A year passed and you heard nothing from him. Then you bumped into him and in an amazing coincidence of timing, his marriage was at breaking point and on its last legs.

He's lying to you. He doesn't love you either. If his poor kids have had to witness the fall-out, he's not a good father either.

I hope his wife bins his sorry arse so he gets no choice other than not to see his children every day. The sad thing for her is that if she puts her kids first, neither will she - through no fault of her own.

Move on and away from characters like this. Relationships that are built on the back of someone else's misery will never be truly happy, because the people in them always know the selfishness of the other.

herhonesty Tue 11-Dec-12 22:10:18

Is it really as one sided as you make out?

badinage Tue 11-Dec-12 22:20:31

If you actually spoke to his wife or could have been a fly on the wall all this time, I think you'd get angry - very angry - about the pack of lies you've been told.

This line about not wanting to wake up without the kids is the new 'my wife doesn't understand me'. It's told to gullible women who project their own parenting values on to an utterly selfish individual. The reason it's a new but well-worn line is because men know that these days, they can get shared residence agreements. They don't want that any more than they want to leave their marriages, so they create this fantasy of being a fantastic father who can't bear not to give his kids breakfast every day. Well newsflash - his wife probably feels the same, but she's not the one fucking around with another man is she?

This man's particularly nasty for claiming his wife is abusive to their child.

If his wife is that abusive, he should go for full residence and get his daughter to safety.

But he won't will he? Either that's another lie or he's too damned selfish.

HisstletoeAndWhine Tue 11-Dec-12 22:25:06

So the fact that he won't dump his kids, but the cat's out of the bag anyway <cue wailing, chest beating,hair pulling>... Thayt is an indication to you that he's a more decent bloke?

How f*cked up is that? Where is your dignity?

You are now doing what all OW do, beginning to defend how speshul your love is, how he's torn up, anguished, tortured, all because he can't be with you. Wake up! That's all bullshit!

He's not anguished at all, he's trying to hedge his bets, but without even the spine to tell either you or his poor wife (I hope she dumps his sorry arse) the real truth.

Thing is, a slightly more decent brand of cheat would at least follow his convictions through, would see that breaking his family's heart has to lead to change. He's not doing that. Preferring to remain the tortured soul to you, with his weak and false sighs, the if only's, the what if's...

Either way he's a prick of the very lowest kind.

He's not even shit on your shoes. Stop kidding yourself that this was a great love, it was all a lie, on his ego boosting terms, on your low self esteem issues and it led you to very bad things.

Cop on, head up and stop speaking for him. Not a single one of us wants to listen to a twat of this magnitude.

garlicbaubles Tue 11-Dec-12 22:32:44

I'm sorry you've been going through this, Angel. It's hard to face logic that says the person you love is a wuss and a liar. Forgive yourself for not wanting to face it all at once.

This book will help you make sense of what's been happening: "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

JaceyBee Tue 11-Dec-12 22:34:18

Hi OP, I am so grateful to you for posting this as I am in a scarily similar situation. I wanted to post about it on here, and in fact I did share my story on another thread about OW a while back, where people were surprisingly kind to me, not that I deserve it. Basically I have been involved with a married guy for the last 8 months, unlike yours though our relationship was sexual.

I will pm you if that's ok, it's just that I don't want to put any details in here that could be identifying in case she reads it - they are going to counselling and trying to sort out their marriage and I don't want to jeopardise that (I know how fucked up that sounds!) I am backing right off and leaving them to sort things out one way or another. I know it's the right thing to do but I feel so broken, I am utterly bereft without him and I'm just not getting over it.

I really am taking comfort from the posts on here, I know you are right and that no contact is the only way to go but it's really, really fucking hard! I try and tell myself that I'm better of without him, that he's a liar and a cheat and probably made out that his marriage was worse than it was and all the standard 'script' stuff that these guys come out with but I still miss him dreadfully, every hour of every day. I'm just hoping that in time it will get easier for both of us.x

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 22:36:48

no he isn't is he. my dignity is rising up. i am seeing thru the swishy wishy washy flaky crap, as i read your replies.

i think i ignored my gut feeling for too long. got in a bit of a head mess. I'm off the fairground ride now.

bluethimble Tue 11-Dec-12 22:38:00

angel, some of these replies are very harsh. You alone know all the ins and outs of this. You feel he loved you, in his way. Keep hold of that, even as you move forward. Don't let some of these replies knock too much stuffing out of you. I suspect some of them do not know through experience what it's like. Be gentle on yourself and don't take all that's said on here too much to heart. Love can consign us to hell or to paradise but it always takes us somewhere. I've been to both places and now I'm on my journey to my somewhere. Give yourself some time and you'll start to be able to see your somewhere. x

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 22:40:48

if i can help i will try. i can't pm you i think you need to change your settings. There's not really anywhere to discuss this sort of thing is there. Especially if you are wanting real help in getting rid/out of something.

littleknownangel Tue 11-Dec-12 22:42:57

bluethimble. thanks. i like the way you convey things. would pm you but says you don't accept. but thankyou. have worked hard on releasing him, cutting the cords. i did it for me.

JaceyBee Tue 11-Dec-12 23:08:33

have pm-ed you smile

melbie Wed 12-Dec-12 01:55:09

Angel I was going to post something so similar after another long conversation which has left me entirely bemused. I don't know the answers. I don't know what to do. I need to not speak to him anymore and I don't know how... Again PM if you want x

EdithWeston Wed 12-Dec-12 05:49:40

You might like to take a look at the Baggage Reclaim website. There's a huge list of posts, and quite a lot of them are about dealing with Mr Unavailable, and why you shouldn't settle for second best. They manage to be both robust and sympathetic at the same time.

Wecanfixit Wed 12-Dec-12 07:01:57

Honey YOU deserve so much more than this coming and going and indecisions of someone else, and you putting your life on hold waiting for HIM to leave his wife, take stock, you are still single , please avoid all contact with him , he is not going to leave his wife men rarely do , there is someone out there for you, you are not a bad person just vunerable and I am afraid have been caught up in something , take care and try to let him go hard though it is , you will feel so much better , this time next year you hopefully will look back and say what was all that about?, hugs to you.

MardyArsedMidlander Wed 12-Dec-12 08:43:54

Just wanted to add- having been in similar situation- that it's easy to get caught up in the drama and the idea of winning a 'prize'. But instead of thinking 'WILL HE EVER LEAVE HIS WIFE???', the question you should be asking is 'Is this really what I want? Don't I deserve more than this?'

applefalls Wed 12-Dec-12 09:04:24

He has drained the life out out of me. I tried to be the fixer, i guess. the voice of reason. why???

I totally understand what you're saying, and if you want the perspective of someone who wasted years and years on a similarly incapable of decision person, listen hard to everything you've been told here. i wish to God I'd had sense like this when I felt like I had discovered the meaning of love, rather than shoring up the ego of someone who had no iteration of ever committing to me.

Get some professional help - psychodynamic counselling might answer those questions you asked, either way you deserve someone who only wants you and he's out there.

But he'll only come along when you've spent time understanding why you're willing to settle for this guy's crap.

Good luck - let's see where you are this time next year.

littleknownangel Wed 12-Dec-12 16:37:21

i have re read this thread. I have taken in so much, and will keep coming back to it for strength. When you feel low it's hard to be subjective, and if your heart's been involved then my god it's harder.

thankyou ladies for all your input.

izzyizin Wed 12-Dec-12 16:47:16

Has it occurred to you that when it comes to him having told his wife and dw about his intention to leave them for you, you only know what he's told you and what he's told you is could be a pack of lies?

littleknownangel Wed 12-Dec-12 16:55:15

i only know what he has told me. I believe what he told her but as you say can't know for sure how he put it etc, what i don't know is what has been discussed in the last few weeks. Which must be them trying to sort thru their marriage, hence him going back on what he promised me. Hence me now ending it, as he has changed his mind, but still insists his feeling for me are true.

I again can only go on what he has said.

littleknownangel Wed 12-Dec-12 16:57:18

BUT the 'poor me' attitude from him is pathetic. Always about him. I believe he's not all there now.

izzyizin Wed 12-Dec-12 16:59:42

Wherever he is, just make sure he doesn't get any more chances of pulling the wool over your eyes being 'there' for you.

littleknownangel Wed 12-Dec-12 16:59:57

as was said further up thread. I prob gave him such a boost, being so 'lovely' and all that. All wrong for the wrong reasons.

littleknownangel Wed 12-Dec-12 17:01:46

i won't. thanks. i gave him too many chances to 'get back in' via text etc. should have ignored forever. will do that now.

HisstletoeAndWhine Wed 12-Dec-12 17:04:41

"I again can only go on what he has said"

Him, Him, Him.

What about YOU?

What about going on what YOU say, feel, want, need?

Where are YOU in all this.

HE is a gaping hole in your self esteem, a cavernous pit of NEED. You needed him to fill that gap in your self-confidence, so ignored the lies, the cheating, the ugly truth, cos you needed it more than you could bear.

This guy, even when free, would NEVER be the person to make you feel whole, how could he?

You need to work on YOU, you need to understand who taught you that you were worth next to nothing? That gap was there before he fell into it. Was it that feckless DH of yours? or did your parents treat you as an inconvenience? How did you learn to be so LOW on everyone's pecking order?

Put yourself at the TOP of your list, refuse to engage with twats, cheats, liars or arseholes. Deal only with the very best of people, surround yourself with those that love you for who you are, and are free to love you in the healthy, supportive way that we all need and deserve.

STOP talking about this man, he has done nothing but harm to you, but wrapped it all up to make himself look like a special prize.

He IS a prize. A PRIZE IDIOT.

You need to focus on YOUR future and leave him for dust. Tell yourself the truth, that none of your relationship was real. It can't be real if the other person is in a family, a marriage.

OK so you wasted time, but you will learn from this, lick your wounds and learn to NEVER settle for the crumbs from the table. that table isn't even your table.

HisstletoeAndWhine Wed 12-Dec-12 17:13:23

I know how much betrayal hurts, I lost my father to an affair, and I lost the father of my son to domestic violence. Yes, I had to come to terms with the fact that he was NOT the man I thought he was, and that he would never change. I had to write him off, sever him from my life, and I had to start all over again, fight the damage he did to my confidence, overcome the anxiety and agoraphobia it left me with. You are sad, you are deflated, but you are not in that deep dark place, so If I can get up and running, so can you! grin

I only allow good people in my life now, I can't be bothered with anyone that has any kind of issue with me, I make my choices for my own reasons and for that of my DS. If anyone raises an eyebrow? well they can walk a mile in my shoes before I'll listen to them.

2 years on, I am happier and emotionally stronger than I have ever been in my entire life. I also lost my family too in all of this, they failed to support me in any way emotionally after Ex left, in fact they called HIM to say goodbye.
I have no contact with my Dad, or my sister and am scaling back comms with my mother. I know that I deserve better people in my life than them.

Get angry, you deserve to. Once you have worked that through, you will find calm, and you will start to grow and heal.

You know you will never fall for this again.

littleknownangel Wed 12-Dec-12 17:23:47

oh for definite my ex dh left without a word, and crippled me, and treated both me and our children with nothing but contempt even after and still does. my parents were crap too, and i did feel as tho i was in the way of their happiness.

luckily, i have a loving nature, and have some very good friends. I was lonely, and he did come along in to that. i do give too much. But it's knowing who to give it too, and then its not 'too' much iyswim. It's nice and it's returned. I am learning that.

littleknownangel Wed 12-Dec-12 17:28:01

hissletoe, i was quite sorted till he came along, had worked hard on a lifetime of depression, really sorted my head out. Another life lesson has just been learnt. Don't take any shit from anyone. Honestly and i know many women say this on here, i am a very strong, fun, reliable person. Mad sense of humour and quite a deep person. spiritual i guess. my downfall is trust. i wanted to trust something after my ex i suppose. I do trust in myself now tho, more than ever.

HisstletoeAndWhine Wed 12-Dec-12 17:32:44

I would suggest that you were not as 'sorted' as you thought you were.

Your self esteem was telling you that all this was OK. You have clearly suffered both with your Ex and before. THIS is the reason you settled for something that anyone with a good strong sense of esteem would have told to keep moving.

You can get through this.

littleknownangel Wed 12-Dec-12 17:45:37

i would agree.

Corygal Wed 12-Dec-12 19:00:04

I feel very sorry for you - you've been very badly treated. Adultery or not, you've had the shitty end of the stick for some time.

The man is appalling and the only plus to all this is that he's finally out of your hair, so keep it that way.

Most men really aren't as bad as he was - try and heal for a bit and then think again about a nice new one.

HisstletoeAndWhine Wed 12-Dec-12 19:58:12

I'm 2yrs on, some therapy and mumsnet support later, I'm happier than ever. I have everything in the world, well except money and a size 8 behind.. hmm grin

I've started another relationship, 7m in now, and he's adorable. True, there were some duds online prior, but with each one I grew and learnt. Sure I got a bit hurt, but I had to toughen up a bit, was scared of everone and everything. I realised that I didn't have to put up with any crap. I can be zero BS tolerance, and those that are true, honest, and good enough to share my life, do.

Come over to the Stately Homes threads, forget about this man for now, you have more important hurts to heal.

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 09:37:00

I feel i trusted someone who has basically let me down. It doesn't mean i will not trust again, but i do feel my instincts will be better after this experience. We are always learning aren't we. He behaved like a shit, a coward and wasn't a strong enough person to even put his hands up and end this properly with me. I did, and i will continue to be me, just not give it away on a lost cause.

I am the nurturer in my family, everyone relies on me and i have learnt to step back from them. My children come first. I can't control how others 'work', i don't understand sometimes and that is frustrating, and i think it's upsetting when it's not something you feel you would do,as it's hard to move on from.

I have done alot for myself this year, lost a heap of weight, found recognition for some of my professional work. His actions and promises are for him to carry now, not me. x

badinage Thu 13-Dec-12 10:08:36

Yes but if he hadn't let you down, he would still have been a shit wouldn't he? People don't stop being shits just because it's not you personally they are letting down.

You thought you could trust someone who was evidently untrustworthy to his wife and family.

Generally speaking, if people are untrustworthy to their loved ones, they will be untrustworthy full stop. You can't cherry pick and say that it's okay as long as they are trustworthy to you personally.

You've been through a rough time, but you aren't the only victim in this sorry mess because at least you had a say in what happened. I think if you keep up this dialogue of 'I'm such a nice caring person, I don't deserve this' you'll overlook your own behaviour and choices in this and that will be a mistake. Better to find out why you were prepared to be with someone who could sacrifice his wife and family for you and deceive them.

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 10:23:53

I am looking at myself, i really am. What possessed me to even go there.

I am responsible for my part, and i don't feel sorry for myself in that way. I have helped create this.

My mother had an affair, and left my father, but is she still a shit? Just thinking outloud here. Is he a shit, a total shit? Is his wife a bit of a shit for her behaviour. I believe that each relationship is different.

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 10:29:12

What i mean is. Sometimes you trust something and it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I see friends happy with second husbands, some not. Some men leave the family and don't care about the kids (like mine) they just do what they want to do. Is that right? Or do some men stay for the kids. Is that right? My uncle stayed for the kids, and his wife has belittled him and been very selfish all their married life. Yet he stayed for the children. Just thinking like.

badinage Thu 13-Dec-12 10:38:57

His wife has been a shit because of her behaviour? What behaviour? If you mean these accusations of abuse towards her daughter, if he felt that strongly about it he would have removed his daughter from the situation. If you haven't seen this behaviour yourself, don't trust what he's saying. He is a liar after all.

He isn't staying for the kids. He's staying for him. I really think you've got to stop believing he's making some grand sacrifice here. He isn't. He's exactly where he wants to be.

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 10:51:39

her behaviour in the marriage too. her responsibility in 'their' relationship before i ever knew him. Her problems. As much as i don't know, nor do you. Not really.

is everything totally black and white in a marriage? mine wasn't. I don't just mean being horrible to their daughter, you are assuming i mean that only. Maybe he has tried to stay there for the daughter to work through all thier issues. It's not an excuse from me for his behaviour in his marriage at all. It's their marriage, they created it. I have said i should not have gone there. He may well be a total shit, who was awful to live with. I don't know.

arequipa Thu 13-Dec-12 11:07:56

From the kids point of view: my mum and dad split when I was 10, both to new partners. Mum's NP disappeared after a month as he couldnt bear to leave his DCs. It broke her heart for a while but she had us, her DCs which she was the most important thng for her. I love her so much. My dad stuck with his NP because he put his love for her before me and my sister. I will always have an iclcle in my heart for him (beneath a dutiful smile). He has something missing from his life (no matter how many lovely holidays they have been on...)

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 11:14:22

i have similar with my dad. my mother treated me and and my brothers appallingly when she got with her affair partner. very selfish for years. Much better now. my father, when she left him sort left us too. has no involvement with my kids.

so, nothing is set in stone, in how we deal with things. we have all our failings.
I understand totally my 'bloke' belief that for him the children come first.

GinSoakedMu1berryLush Thu 13-Dec-12 11:14:25

I think he's had the support of leaning on you all this time and you've got nothing back except guilt and confusion.

It is like comfort eating perhaps, or getting drunk. Talking to him makes you feel better for a little while but in the long run makes you feel worse about yourself so cut him out.

who cares what he said to his wife or what his wife said or thought! you have to look out for yourself and he's making you feel worse about yourself.

I think people stay in dead marriages ALL THE TIME. Out of fear of being judged, laziness, lack of optimism that life five years from now would be any easier/better if they split, financial reasons, for the kids......... but staying "for the kids" is the most acceptable reason to stay in a dead marriage so people pin it alllllll on that.

CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts Thu 13-Dec-12 11:18:19

What you describe is the classic 'my wife doesn't understand me' knicker-loosener. He's spinning you a sob story, that's all. Walk away.

badinage Thu 13-Dec-12 11:25:01

I think what ever the problems are in a marriage, an affair isn't the answer. I certainly don't think his wife deserved to be cheated on.

The thing is, no-one knows what goes on in a marriage apart from the people in it. What I do know is that married men have a tendency to exaggerate problems and faults to lessen their own guilt and make other women feel sorry for them.

I think you'd be better off acknowledging that for this bloke, he comes first - not his wife, not you - and certainly not his children.

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 11:29:21

totally was there too much, with the 'i hold my hands up' feeling that something was going to happen for us. he promised it too. I sent him away that first time saying, speak to your wife, not me.

I stupidly let him back into my life. I gave it a chance, and I realised it wasn't enough. Or right. or all those things. I didn't listen to my gut. I swept it away. true. You are right, it doesn't matter what he, she said. what it was how it is. I should have been more in control of my emotions and actions, and stuck to it.

GinSoakedMu1berryLush Thu 13-Dec-12 11:33:48

it's tough though........ are you single? for a married man to lean on you, reel you in (I know you're an autonomous adult but still), the way society is, he goes back to his wife and you get judged. That's society. It happens on mumsnet and in real life. You're left alone trying to figure it all out, lonely without him. Whatever he feels he's back under the family roof with his wife and kids to fill up the silences...

Absolutely agree he comes first. Not his wife, not his kids, not you. he comes first

badinage Thu 13-Dec-12 11:44:24

I'm wondering whether you still blame yourself in some way for your husband walking out?

That would explain why you're attributing blame towards his wife for his affair with you.

You are both victims of moral cowards though. Neither of you deserved to be treated so shoddily and nothing either of you did caused that horrible treatment. Neither of you were given a chance to work on any problems and instead your partners sabotaged their marriages unilaterally.

I think you need to identify with his wife more and that might help you let go of any guilt about your marriage. Of course that might increase your guilt about this affair but I think then at least you'll attribute responsibility where it's due.

WayneDeer Thu 13-Dec-12 11:50:52

I had an Internet diversion on another medium.
It remained words on a screen.
I am/was married. He is married.
My h was in the midst of another dalliance, someone randomly reached out to me and it went on from there.

I was diverted from how horrible it was in my house but not focussing on what the impact would be in someone else's house.
What started as a man being sweet/funny and it was flattering..very soon became far too hot and heavy from his part. Pestering to meet. Speak on the phone. webcam etc.

I wasn't ready for that or up for it. i resisted, he pushed and pushed and then he moved on in a huge strop.
I missed having someone to instant message but it was all wrong.
I missed the attention but it wasn't positive attention.
It did give me the confidence to move forward and do the right things in my life.

I think ultimately you'll find the same thing I did OP. no good can come from a relationship started in this way IMO/E
I am so embarrassed that I did it.

GinSoakedMu1berryLush Thu 13-Dec-12 12:04:10

So, OP, did you split up with your husband because of this man?

I think it is this man who should be feeling guilty!! You are recently separated (because of this man) and he is still with his wife.

You are more honest and he finds it easy to 'draw support' from several quarters.

I think you should cut the cord totally and try and forget about him/this.... Don't try to empathise with his wife. It's over now. YOu know what pain and betrayal feel like. COncentrate on yourself and getting over it. His wife is on his conscience, or should be, but I doubt she is somehow.

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 12:04:44

yes i am single and have been since my ex dh left 8 yrs ago.

He never spoke to me about wanting to leave till he did it. So like the wife i was in the dark.

My guilt has been on behalf of my exdh and the way he has treated our children since. I have tried to make up for that, and put up with alot of verbal abuse and inconsistent behaviour from him to try and make him not take it out on them. He has, in turn guilt tripped me for his actions. i told him when he left, that i couldn't understand why he was going, but he said it was him not me.

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 12:06:03

oh no, not at all. this man came into my life two yrs ago, and helped me out professionally. It then grew to talking, hence the EA.

littleknownangel Thu 13-Dec-12 12:08:47

i do believe he (mm) lives in a bubble/fantasy land and has used these feelings to get away from his reality. I hoped it was going to be, in the end me and him.

wrong.

herhonesty Thu 13-Dec-12 18:36:12

erm you did, however, willingly having an emotional affair with a married man. he's a shit, but you are a bit of sh*t for playing your part too. and it always takes 2 to tango so i really dont believe you've done your far bit of reeling in too.

you say "I feel i trusted someone who has basically let me down" - he was a married man looking to have an affair for gods sake! the alarm bells should have been ringing at the very start. you were either a little naive (which we can all be inthe throw of things) or perhaps you actually liked the thought of wrecking somoene else's marriage. You do seem to be obsessing about it. But at the end of day, you have nobody and nothing. Walk away, there will be someone much, much better for you.

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