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Partner has finally revealed that he's not proposed to me yet because I want to keep my surname

(149 Posts)
Pipsytwos Wed 05-Dec-12 13:29:18

So, I have taken the choice to keep my surname if I get married. Admittedly only a very small part of that is for feminist reasons, mainly it's because we have a 3 month old daughter who we gave my name. We did this because my partner has a horrible surname, one that he was mocked for at high school, I couldn't do that to our children so I convinced him that as we have a choice we should chose my average normal name. My daughter will be thankful of this esp as she has a very unique first name. The problem is that I would take his name if it was just me, but now I've named her, and I don't want a different name to her. He says he does want to marry me but feels that people will mock him and think that something of his wasn't good enough for me... Do we just not marry each other? I personally don't think marriage is about names, I think it's about unity and that unity isn't dependent on us having one name... Am I wrong?

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Wed 05-Dec-12 13:30:10

I think that's an excuse.

CMOTDibbler Wed 05-Dec-12 13:30:26

Sounds like he's being a bit of a nob tbh.

BahSaidPaschaHumbug Wed 05-Dec-12 13:31:13

He could always opt to change his surname to yours.

CailinDana Wed 05-Dec-12 13:31:49

Is he serious?? Or is he just trying to get out of marrying you?

msrisotto Wed 05-Dec-12 13:31:57

God that sounds like a pile of rubbish. I didn't take my husband's surname for entirely feminist reasons and after a rational explanation, he didn't think about it again.

MummyBarrow Wed 05-Dec-12 13:32:09

No you are not wrong. he is being a dick.

He was happy for you to be mum to his daughter but not to marry you because you won't take his name?

Tell him he could change his surname to yours when you get married.

or dump him

schobe Wed 05-Dec-12 13:33:02

Don't think that's the real reason tbh. He's happy for your DD not to have his name but you have to? Bizarre.

So he worries about the opinion of people who think that women are chattel so should change their name otherwise the man mustn't be a 'real man'?

No disrespect to those who want to change their name - totally their choice.

But worrying what other people think about this particular issue would be a big problem for me.

Before we married, my DH strongly felt I should change my name. I strongly felt I didn't want to.
We married anyway!
I wonder if he's using it as an excuse sad

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Wed 05-Dec-12 13:35:26

Marriage is a promise.

The names are just a distraction in my opinion.

If he wants the whole family to have the same name, he can opt to take yours when marrying you.

Is he from a very traditional upbringing? Are there cutlural differences at play?

There is more to marriage than names so may be worth discussing what he thinks married life would mean.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Wed 05-Dec-12 13:35:58

X post with everyone.

LemonBreeland Wed 05-Dec-12 13:36:55

It sounds rather ridiculous that he wants you to take a name that he was bullied for at school. Could he be getting pressure from elsewhere withe the name, his parents perhaps?

He should just change his name to your name. It makes sense.

LemonBreeland Wed 05-Dec-12 13:38:16

Also you already have a child together and that is a bigger commitment than marriage, so if he is concerned about marriage then that is a little odd.

Pipsytwos Wed 05-Dec-12 13:40:29

I was really doubting myself. He says he wont take my name because everyone will take the piss and say I wear the trousers etc. I am really angry about it. He didn't argue much when it came to naming or girl because he said although he didn't like it he could understand as his not particularly fond of his name and I really like my name. Now I feel really tricked and I do think it's an excuse, nobody really cared that our baby has my name so why would they care if I kept it when we marry? It's really irritating. It only came out when I decided that I wanted to get married just me him and witnesses, so maybe it's like the excuse of we don't have the money atm has gone so he's replaced it with this! :/

GoldQuintessenceAndMyhrr Wed 05-Dec-12 13:42:43

He sounds like an idiot. Why would he want you to take a horrible surname that he was mocked for having? He is making excuses, he does not want to marry you.

I would not want to marry a man with such stupid and outdated opinions. "something of his was not good enough for you" what a knob. hmm

He can equally take your name.

BeataNoxPotter Wed 05-Dec-12 13:43:01

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ephiny Wed 05-Dec-12 13:44:01

It sounds like an excuse to me too. I kept using my original name after marriage, and no one has ever 'mocked' DH for it. In fact (other than my mum) no one has ever even mentioned or commented on it. I don't imagine anyone particularly cares.

CockyPants Wed 05-Dec-12 13:44:14

Hmmm. I think surname thing is a smokescreen and he just doesn't want to marry you.
Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear.

Thistledew Wed 05-Dec-12 13:45:38

What would happen if you asked him to marry you? Would he actually say 'no' if you did not agree to take his name?

Pipsytwos Wed 05-Dec-12 13:46:32

I'm angry about him worrying about what other people think, he doesn't have anything to say when I explain how sexist it is. No traditional upbringing, he doesn't know his dad and didn't take his name. He's not even close to his family, in fact we don't see them ever. Me and my family are very close, there isn't a day that goes by where I don't speak to them. We both felt that our DD would have more of a 'family' background to her name from my side because of that..

ErikNorseman Wed 05-Dec-12 13:48:08

He sounds weak and sexist to me.

JugglingWithPossibilities Wed 05-Dec-12 13:48:08

Are you happy in the relationship otherwise Pipsy ?
I wouldn't be happy with this either sad
He sounds inflexible and overly worried about what others think IMHO

noddyholder Wed 05-Dec-12 13:48:24

Ho sounds threatened by you. 'wears the trousers' Really? It is 2012! He doesn't sound as evolved as you

DixieD Wed 05-Dec-12 13:48:53

Hmmm. It could be an excuse not to get married or it could be that he regrets agreeing to name your daughter your name. It may be that people are taking the piss out of him over that (this is something like my DHs immature mates would slag each other over), or perhaps his family aren't impressed? Now hes rethinking the decision and deciding to dig his heels in so people will still think he wears the trousers!
<rolls eyes> <shakes head>

Narked Wed 05-Dec-12 13:48:58

It sounds like an excuse. The only possible reason I could think of for him genuinely being upset by the name thing is if people have made comments to him about your DD not taking his surname in the past three months. It's unlikely though.

noddyholder Wed 05-Dec-12 13:49:45

he even

ErikNorseman Wed 05-Dec-12 13:50:38

Would he have agreed to a son taking your surname???

Pipsytwos Wed 05-Dec-12 13:50:58

I think I'm going to have to face the fact that he doesn't want to marry me. I told my mum about it and she said to keep my dignity not to talk about it with him and I shouldn't wan to marry him if he doesn't want to marry me... which I don't want to marry someone who doesn't want to marry me. But I do wish he'd want to blush

PetFox Wed 05-Dec-12 13:52:17

He says he wont take my name because everyone will take the piss and say I wear the trousers etc. <<< This makes him sound like a total idiot. Why would you want to marry someone like that? Marriage has nothing to do with names. I didn't take my DH's name and no one has ever mentioned it to either me or him. Your DP needs to change his friends if they would take the piss out of something like that.

If you all want to have the same name, he can change his to yours, or you can change all your names to something else entirely!

Mulledandmerry Wed 05-Dec-12 13:53:04

When people asked me if I was going to take my husband's (to be) name, I used to say, yes, after we are married I shall be know as Brian!!!!!!grin

Pipsytwos Wed 05-Dec-12 13:53:18

He wouldn't have objected with a son. He knew it was better for a child, and he really doesn't like his name so I don't know why he's trying to push it on me!

mercibucket Wed 05-Dec-12 13:58:32

He just doesn't want to marry you.

mercibucket Wed 05-Dec-12 13:58:41

He just doesn't want to marry you.

TeamBacon Wed 05-Dec-12 14:01:18

I was engaged to someone like this. His last name was ridiculous, he was teased for it, and he insisted that he would only marry me if I took his last name. He was incredibly offended at the idea that I might want to keep my own, very normal surname.

Yeah.. that didn't last much longer.

TeamBacon Wed 05-Dec-12 14:01:56

He did want to marry me though, very much! I suspect he would have given in if it had come to an ultimatum. It didn't though, because he was a bit of a wanker.

I dunno. My DH was and still is upset that I didn't take his name. For some men it really is important.

RudolphiaRedNose Wed 05-Dec-12 14:04:30

Aargh, how infuriating! Unless it's just an excuse, I really think he's struggling to grasp the concept of equality. Ask him straight out, why does he (and his neanderthal mates) think you should have to do something like this if he wouldn't do it for you? Does he actually think as a man he and his name are more important? Or are you equals in your relationship?

One thing you could do, as well as the above, is offer to change DD's name so that she is Firstname Middlename Hisname Yourname. Not double-barrelled, as you want to avoid her having his horrible name, but just two surnames, the first of which is like another middle name and doesn't get used daily, but is there, as a record of both of you as the parents. That would put you both on an equal footing as regards your DD. He might (ridiculously) be feeling edged out by what happened with naming her, and be trying to claw back his "place" IYSWIM.

Whatever you do though, don't give in and change your name - that would give him a terrible message.

schobe Wed 05-Dec-12 14:04:55

I'm starting to simmer gently at all these guys who would be deeply offended at their name not being taken. How about they change their names if they're so keen on being called the same thing?

What jeffing century are we living in fgs.

LRDtheFeministDude Wed 05-Dec-12 14:05:15

Really?

Sorry, but I think that is a rotten start to a marriage. If you think it's important, you should get priority since it is your name. You're not asking him to change to yours.

I would venture to suggest if this is really 'important' to some men, it's because they're giving you a sign they're too 'important' not to control a decision that's yours, not theirs. Not a great sign.

noddyholder Wed 05-Dec-12 14:05:48

What do you mean if it was a boy child?

Yama Wed 05-Dec-12 14:06:58

Worrying about other people's opinions is a really shit excuse. I don't think I could respect someone who put the opinions of others before my feelings.

The only person (dh's uncle) to question my not taking dh's name is the kind of buffoon that nobody takes notice of anyway. I was glad he objected because he is a dickhead and I like to be opposed to dickheads.

Jux Wed 05-Dec-12 14:08:02

But marriage and what it actually stands for is more mportant. Sorry, op, he's being a twat. If you ignore it he might come around. How long do you want to wait? Is marriage thatimportant to you?

PetFox Wed 05-Dec-12 14:08:29

DH and I are thinking of changing our names to something completely different, so that we have the same one. When we mentioned this to my FIL he was floored. He said to DH, "But names are important! You can't just change the name you were given when you were born!" He literally hadn't even considered his wife sitting next to him, who changed her name to his when they got married hmm

LemonBreeland Wed 05-Dec-12 14:09:48

I am actually firmly on the side of him just finding excuses now. I would call his bluff and say okay I'll take your name. See what excuse he comes up with next.

RudolphiaRedNose Wed 05-Dec-12 14:13:08

I love what mulledandmerry said. Maybe you could pretend to give in and say "<sigh> oh ok then, I don't really want to change my name to X [his first name] but you are the man, so if you insist."

Collaborate Wed 05-Dec-12 14:13:33

My wife doesn't have my surname. Doesn't bother me or the kids.

Mulledandmerry Wed 05-Dec-12 14:14:08

ok..I am proud of my DHs name and family heritage/identity, I loved being Mrs Mulledandmerry. We all have the same surname and I went with tradition. That said, he never made an issue of it and would still have married, loved and respected me if I hadn't wanted to change my name. (and he doesn't have an embarrassing surname!)

mercibucket Wed 05-Dec-12 14:14:48

What's important is your financial security if he drops down dead or decides to leave. That's the main thing marriage gives you that living together doesn't. So get the house in both names, be careful with savings, get him to make a will, get life insurance out on him payable to you or your dd, get named on his pension (or dd)
Then tell him you've changed your mind about marriage anyway

mercibucket Wed 05-Dec-12 14:14:48

What's important is your financial security if he drops down dead or decides to leave. That's the main thing marriage gives you that living together doesn't. So get the house in both names, be careful with savings, get him to make a will, get life insurance out on him payable to you or your dd, get named on his pension (or dd)
Then tell him you've changed your mind about marriage anyway

Mulledandmerry Wed 05-Dec-12 14:15:04

Rudolphia..the kids objected to having a mum called Brian..they said they would get teased at school!

snowtunesgirl Wed 05-Dec-12 14:15:23

It's just an excuse, has to be.

When DH and I got married, it hadn't even occured to us until about three weeks before the wedding that I might be expected to take his surname. I use my surname in a professional sense too. It had come up in conversation with others and I asked him if he wanted me to take his surname. He looked confused and said not particulary, why, do you want to take my surname? I replied, not really, I quite like mine. He said: Ok.

And that was that. grin

Mulledandmerry Wed 05-Dec-12 14:15:31

Merci..you have an echo

Notmadeofrib Wed 05-Dec-12 14:16:25

Right, so he doesn't mind his child not looking like his (I don't actually think this), but he wants you firmly labelled. OK.

Not all cultures change names.

I declinded to change my name in my 30's it would have been weird.

msrisotto Wed 05-Dec-12 14:17:20

It doesn't sound like a genuine reason. If he really did want to marry you, but really wanted you to have the same name then he'd be coming up with suggestions like - both you and your daughter could change your names, he could change his name, you could double barrel etc etc. But it doesn't sound like he's doing any of this.

Pipsytwos Wed 05-Dec-12 14:23:44

I think it must be an excuse, I think back to all of the conversations we had in naming our girl and how I told him that even if he had a nice name I would've been keen to keep mine anyway. He seemed to agree, he understood that I felt that it's wholly sexist to believe that I should lose part of my identity. When I was younger I was against marriage because I felt the it was an old fashioned practice when property was exchanged. Obviously I don't feel that way anymore, and I truly believe in marriage. I think it's a choice to change your name or not. Admittedly I'd have been tempted had he had a normal name, for convenience. But as it is, I couldn't do that to my child, and I'm not changing my name when she has mine. We could put both names in because they really don't go together at all! And he wouldn't have wanted that. I feel really let down by him. I thought he had more about him. He got stick about me breastfeeding but he put up with that and always said how proud he was. He works with a lot of immature baboons! It really must be an excuse, I'd have more respect if he just said he doesn't want to marry me!

PetFox Wed 05-Dec-12 14:32:11

He got stick about you breastfeeding? shock He really does need to change his friends! Or if they are just people he works with, he needs to stop caring what they think, and especially stop putting their opinions above yours hmm

Ambivalence Wed 05-Dec-12 14:33:37

Just agree to take his name - and see how quickly he finds another excuse.

i am getting married next year, and I am not going to change my name officially, I won't object to being called Mrs X socially though, but am not changing my professional name, as at 35, I feel my reputation has been built on my name.

Catsdontcare Wed 05-Dec-12 14:34:49

God he sounds like an idiot who spends to m ugh time worrying about what other people think. I kept my surname because frankly I couldn't be bothered to change it!

Ephiny Wed 05-Dec-12 14:36:49

Why on earth would his work colleagues know or care whether you breastfed or not? confused. Why would they 'give him stick' about it? That sounds very very odd. Does he really care about what these people think?

JugglingWithPossibilities Wed 05-Dec-12 14:38:22

Sounds like he's not all bad but surrounded by idiots ?!

When I had the surname issue with DP (only he chose for our kids to have my name) he changed his name to mine when we married. It's never been an issue with 'under the thumb' type sentiments.

MakeItALarge Wed 05-Dec-12 14:49:33

When me and dp married the dc had my surname, registar told us the dcs names had to be changed to his, as I married their biological father. If I wanted to keep them as my maiden name I would then have to change back again confused

It does sound like hes looking for excuses, could you not all go double barreled as in mr and mrs horrible name -nice name? Then just use your last name grin

JugglingWithPossibilities Wed 05-Dec-12 15:02:52

Gosh, I'm surprised about your DC's having to take their Father's name MakeIt
- that sounds remarkably old-fashioned ?

LRDtheFeministDude Wed 05-Dec-12 15:05:06

Are you sure the registrar wasn't, well, lying, makeit? confused

Ephiny Wed 05-Dec-12 15:15:56

That sounds very odd to me too. Especially as there is no official name-changing process on marriage. You just start using your husband's name (or don't).

Was that in the UK?

orchidee Wed 05-Dec-12 15:21:32

>> When me and dp married the dc had my surname, registar told us the dcs names had to be changed to his, as I married their biological father. If I wanted to keep them as my maiden name I would then have to change back again

This sounds like bollocks. What's the business about "having to change your maiden name back again"- it doesn't automatically change to your husband's on marriage, so there's no "changing back" unless you decide to change your name to match your husband's.

Honestly, I'd report the registrar for giving out false information - unless of course they can back up that statement.

orchidee Wed 05-Dec-12 15:24:19

OP- how old is your partner? The surname business us a red herring. Your actual issue here us that he's under the thumb of the guys at work. So as long as you and the guts at work agree on how to live your lives its okay, but otherwise they'll let him know what's what, and for whatever reason, he defers to them. Sort that out and the surname issue will disappear!

orchidee Wed 05-Dec-12 15:25:28

Guts? Guys.

HullyEastergully Wed 05-Dec-12 15:29:53

Tell him to look under the bed. Perhaps his spine rolled under there.

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Wed 05-Dec-12 15:36:22

Id rather chew my own hand off then take my oh's name if we got married... wished id given my son my surname now.

I cant see why hes happy for your daughter to have yours but wants you to have a different one, it doesnt make any sense to me??

My DH has a name I don't like. Never liked it...once soon after we met he took me to a reasonably posh meal and said, "I have booked in the name of XXX". The girl snorted and then quickly apologised. He was unamused. I could sort of see her point....

So we got married...and I kept my dull but sniggerfree name. The boys have his, and haven't yet had a problem with it. Their time will come grin

It has never ever been an issue. The only person who calls me Mrs T...is his mum, and that's fine. She calls her daughter (who has kept the snigger name) Mrs P ...

For those who are interested, 2 syllables, first is what you have on your chest and rhymes with Pit, and second is something you'd use to do your hair and rymes with bum.

I think your fiance has a few issues.

CatchingMockingbirds Wed 05-Dec-12 15:45:37

DP and I argued about who would take what name when we marry. Both names were important to us, and DP respected my views. In the end we chose to use both names but use my name as a middle name for both us and the children. wWe're planning our wedding at the moment but it was never an option not to marry based on us not deciding over the name.

Sorry OP but I just don't think he wants to marry you and is using this as an excuse.

BerylStreep Wed 05-Dec-12 16:37:25

Your DP is being an arse. Whether this is a temporary state of affairs or not, only you can know. I think impending marriages can do strange things to people's views - I am very firmly atheist, and wanted to get married in a registry office. My DH said if he couldn't get married in church, he wouldn't marry me at all hmm. We eventually got married in church, with me opting to amend my vows, but in the 9 years we have been married, he has probably only been to church about 10 times since. So he made a big deal out of something that isn't a big deal, IYKWIM - honestly, the thought of marriage does funny things to people.

However, I didn't change my name - I had built a career under my surname, and didn't really want to change it to my DH's more common name. It was no big deal, however I have found that I have organically moved towards a combination of names.

My name for: work, bank statements, some credit cards, passport, my friends and family, some utility bills, dentist, electoral roll, car insurance.

DH name for: some other bills, some other credit cards, deeds and mortgage, driving licence, GP, and school calls me Mrs DH.

Whilst I much prefer my own name, and consider that to be who I am, I don't really care what people call me - but I would definitely care if my DH tried to force the issue.

Perhaps your DP doesn't realise that changing your name is just a matter of you informing people if you want to and when you get around to it, it's not like you get a brand new legally binding birth certificate IYKWIM!

Anyhow, I would be inclined to take your Mum's advice. Don't give his silly ideas any oxygen. I'd be muttering things like, 'oh well, that's a shame, can you pass the jam?' Call his bluff, but if you make a big deal about it he will become entrenched.

BerylStreep Wed 05-Dec-12 16:38:34

Oh, I forgot to ask, what is his surname? We could do a MN poll to see if it is as bad as Fedup's DH grin

Pipsytwos Wed 05-Dec-12 17:01:18

I cant say it, it's too unique for me to get away with, but it sounds very similar to foreskin, which is what he was called at school! :0 I think I'll call his bluff. He always said he wanted to marry me but when we had the money, for one reason or another that'll never come about. Now I've taken away the cost of a wedding this issue has arisen. I think even if I'd named DD his name and was prepared to take it myself, I'd still be in this position, so I'm glad that I held firm over baba's name. Can't double barrel, our names kind of rhyme and sound awful together. I think either he doesn't want to marry me or he really is quite weak and afraid to go against the norm incase people talk... either way I'm not impressed! hmm

MakeItALarge Wed 05-Dec-12 22:25:19

Id be tempted to call his bluff agree to the name change just to see if he was making excuses and if he came up with any other problems.

I did get married in UK, thought registrar was talking crap but yes we were told we had a set period to time after the wedding to re-register dc and they would have to take there fathers name, they even got new birth certificates confused

lookingfoxy Wed 05-Dec-12 22:57:15

DP wants to get married but I said I would not change my name he almost fainted in shock then had a hissy fit, yes he is a traditional (sexist pig) person. We have both had very traditional upbringings, but I like my name and ds1 has my name, there is no way ds is having a different name to me.

Going to be fun and games as im pregnant and will need him there when I register the birth!!

SummerDad Wed 05-Dec-12 23:54:01

I don't really think there is a simple answer for that. As a husband I encouraged my wife to retain her surname even after the marriage though it is still understandable where he is coming from. Name is a big part of someone's personality and it should not be hard to understand that a part of him is being abandoned by someone who is supposed to be above every fear. Having said that, he needs to realise the practical implications of this choice as he probably did in the case of your daughter's name.

Secretservice Thu 06-Dec-12 00:04:57

makeit That's very odd. All three of my DCs have my name, despite being married to their biological dad. It was never once suggested we would have to change them

echt Thu 06-Dec-12 06:22:53

Hmm..I've retained my family name, and DD has my name; had she been a boy he would have had DH's family name.

Anyway OP, Mr Glasscock/Hugearse is, I think being silly. Surely if he's saying people will think your NOT having his name is not OK, then they already think this because DD doesn't. Illogical, she said, Spockly.grin

Lastofthepodpeople Thu 06-Dec-12 06:51:42

I kept my surname when I married and DS has my surname. It's not an issue at all.
Does that mean he's happy for your DD to have one name and the two of you to have another? I think he's being a bit strange about it.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Thu 06-Dec-12 07:09:19

OP I would think twice about marrying anyone who used the phrase "wears the trousers".

cuillereasoupe Thu 06-Dec-12 07:52:30

Name is a big part of someone's personality and it should not be hard to understand that a part of him is being abandoned

You mean like married women have been expected to do for centuries? hmm

BumBiscuits Thu 06-Dec-12 12:24:37

I couple I'm friends with got married and he took her name. He had issues with his own family and I think wanted a fresh start -none of anyone's business IMO--. I don't think anyone thinks for that reason that she's the one who "wears the trousers".

LRDtheFeministDude Thu 06-Dec-12 12:28:32

summer - erm, which part of him is being 'abandoned'? confused

She's never had his name. Their child has never had his name. He will keep his name.

'Abandon' means give up something you had before. It doesn't apply here.

foolonthehill Thu 06-Dec-12 12:43:55

My (male) friend changed his surname to his DW's when they married (she didn't want to be a pratt!!!) worked well all round.

TygerTyger Thu 06-Dec-12 12:52:04

My DH wasn't happy that I didn't want to change my name. I used his for the afternoon we got married and then carried on as before. He got used to the idea. My parents have taken a while longer and hyphenate my name. His family don't know, but I couldn't care less what the call me, esp given the frequency that we actually see them. DD has both our names, but not hyphenated; but it seems overly long. I'm happy for her to drop mine, but now DH has decided he doesn't like his name! Sorry to say it, but it does sound like an excuse. But do you need him to propose? Could you just get married? Suppose you both need to work out what's important here.

SleighbellsRingInYourLife Thu 06-Dec-12 13:42:15

"When me and dp married the dc had my surname, registar told us the dcs names had to be changed to his, as I married their biological father."

That is a filthy lie.

TheQueenOfSparta Thu 06-Dec-12 13:59:30

I think this is a ridiculous excuse. In my country, the norm is for women to keep their name. Actually, legally, women can take their husband's name. They are born with this name, and they keep it.

TheQueenOfSparta Thu 06-Dec-12 14:11:29

Sorry. women cannot take

DistanceCall Thu 06-Dec-12 14:37:38

In Spain, people have two surnames -- usually, the first one is your father's and the second one is your mother's (although you can swap the order if you like). And women don't change their surname when they get married. So, if your father is Mr AB and your mother is Mrs CD, you and your siblings usually have the surname AC (people generally use the first surname only in everyday life, though).

Makes things simpler.

DistanceCall Thu 06-Dec-12 14:39:42

That said, I think the OP's partner is just trying to get out of getting married or being stupid (possible because of his friends).

hermioneweasley Thu 06-Dec-12 14:46:24

Your partner is a twat. I would seriously reconsider being in a relationship with someone with either has so little respect for me, or is genuinely an idiot. Not sure those are great options.

JugglingWithPossibilities Thu 06-Dec-12 16:22:02

Ooh, it sounds cool in Spain DC - is that a long standing tradition ?
The matrilineal name and line sounds much stronger there ?

amillionyears Thu 06-Dec-12 16:34:40

I am wondering if he feels somewhat abandoned [cant think of a beter word right now].
Whether he feels that because he never sees his family anymore, that he feels somewhat isolated, even though rationally he knows his surname will cause you a lot of embarassment if you take it.
Could you have a calm, emotionless talk and keep it purely to the name issus, rather than the wedding issue?
And dont even particularly talk about the fact that your DD has a different name.
He doesnt know his dad. He may, in his mind, as he sees it, be trying to be loyal to his dad.

snowtunesgirl Thu 06-Dec-12 16:35:22

It is a long standing tradition but if you emigrate to there, it's very hard to convince the authorities that you have only ONE surname. My friend found that when living out there! grin

amillionyears Thu 06-Dec-12 16:37:17

If the name thing is the real reason, he may change his mind about wanting you to have it, if he thought you were willing to consider it.

Pipsytwos Thu 06-Dec-12 16:40:38

It was an excuse, after me bringing it up and asking if he nows has an issue with DD's name as well he says he has no problem. After me saying how silly it'd be for me to change my name and that essentially I have just as much right to my name as he has to his, he agreed. Then started the expense again (my dad is giving £3000 for each of his children's weddings, the wedding I would like would cost way under £1000) he then said 'well a ring would cost money and you don't want any of the standard rings!' I've expressed a preference for a decorated/antique looking band over one that is just a diamond. It's not a price difference just a style. I just said if he doesn't want to marry to just bloody say. He says he does just not now because he doesn't understand what marriage is about. Not sure what that means other than he makes excuses rather than being honest with me hmm Not sure how to feel about it either. I really do want to marry but it looks like it'll never happen. Also not sure if I should feel rejected or what this says about how he feels about me? Feeling very silly right about now blush

FryOneFatChristmasTurkey Thu 06-Dec-12 16:42:25

It doesn't look like he wants to marry you.

msrisotto Thu 06-Dec-12 16:44:01

Don't feel silly because he's been messing you around with silly excuses.
I do agree though that it doesn't look like it'll ever happen. Marriage is a pretty simple concept, not much to misunderstand that doesn't take a minutes thinking to figure out, you either do or you don't want to get married and I think, he obviously doesn't but is far too much of a pansy to come out and say it.

LRDtheFeministDude Thu 06-Dec-12 16:44:03

Oh, love. sad

How rotten.

I don't think you should feel silly - I am annoyed that he would mess you about like this.

If he says he doesn't understand what marriage is about, how does he know he wants it?

That would really bother me - it makes it sound as if you're the one who is meant to say 'this is what marriage is about' and you're meant to modify that until he agrees.

That's not on.

msrisotto Thu 06-Dec-12 16:44:46

ever happen * with him *, not ever for you! Just him!

JugglingWithPossibilities Thu 06-Dec-12 16:48:59

Ah Pipsy - doesn't sound like what you want to hear.
I guess it's fair enough to wonder what marriage means/ is all about, but doesn't sound like he's got much to say on the subject ?
Are you sure you want to be with him ? What does he bring to the relationship ?
What are his good qualities ?
It doesn't sound to me that he's great about thinking about your feelings ?
I hope things work out for you one way or the other x

Pipsytwos Thu 06-Dec-12 16:51:37

It really sucks, we've talked about marriage loads. He said he used to not want to marry until he met me (that being said he was engaged years ago to my stepson's mum) He claimed he never wanted to marry her but did it to offer her a commitment (this was prior to having his son)
I'm a fool for believing him when he'd already shown he was a liar. I feel I cant even take issue with this without looking desperate and pathetic! blush

LRDtheFeministDude Thu 06-Dec-12 16:55:58

You're not a fool. You're just seeing the signs looking back. sad

It does look as if he's got a funny idea of what talking abou marriage is about. If he was engaged before, but claims he never wanted to marry her ... well, honestly, run a mile!

You do not look desperate or pathetic! Please don't think that about yourself. You look perfectly normal and a nice person, and I am afraid he doesn't sound so nice.

Is it possible you can talk to him about it in very plain terms, asking whether he really wants to be married and why? If he can't express a reason, that is a problem - it is effectively him saying there is nothing in it for him and nothing he would commit. You don't need that.

weegiemum Thu 06-Dec-12 17:01:26

I did change my name, in a very similar situation to fedup!

I was 24, in luuuurve, I used my maiden name professionally till we moved to a very conservative island community in Scotland, when I changed it.

I actually kind of like it now. It's unique (everyone called it - about 30 - are related). It's kind of giggletastic (I know, I've taught secondary kids while using it!) but I rely on the fact I'm a good teacher to get past that. I've Bernard mrs T for 18 years, I was Miss Mac for 24. Almost half my life! It's my name too now.

Very opinionated dd1 (nearly 13) claims she's keeping giggly name!

mercibucket Thu 06-Dec-12 17:01:39

Sorry to hear that op

Make sure you get the finances sorted. Do you rent or own your own house and if so, is it in joint names?

Has he made a will and has he left his share of the house etc to you or your dd?

cuillereasoupe Thu 06-Dec-12 17:05:45

Actually, I think not wanting to get married is a perfectly valid viewpoint and has nothing to do with how committed you are. Having said that, I'd be more than a little hmm about him not being able to have a grown-up conversation about it.

Ooh, it sounds cool in Spain

You can choose to take your mother's surname in Iceland, too.

Pipsytwos Thu 06-Dec-12 17:11:53

That's the thing, is it possible that he does still want to spend his life with me but doesn't want to get married or is it a sign that he doesn't want to be further tied to me incase he wants to leave? If it's the first should I stop wanting to be married and accept a life without it? I have my small baby and I love my stepson, does this mean I should go to protect myself in the future? He wont have a full conversation about it with me and rolls his eyes if I go anywhere near the subject then I feel embarrassed and silly. We rent, since leaving work while pregnant I've been financially reliant on him

LRDtheFeministDude Thu 06-Dec-12 17:15:40

I think if he wanted to spend his life with you but not get married, he would have found a way to express it.

I'm sorry, that sounds horrible. But I do worry here. I honestly think - from what you say - he is not in it for the long haul.

cuillereasoupe Thu 06-Dec-12 17:19:20

And conversely, getting married doesn't always mean people are in it for the long haul either of course!

I suspect the break-up with your stepson's mum will tell you a lot about how he views long-term commitment.

LRDtheFeministDude Thu 06-Dec-12 17:20:05

Yes, that's the point cui!

BerylStreep Thu 06-Dec-12 17:23:45

Pipsy, sorry to hear that. It's a shame he couldn't have been more honest with you and your feelings before now. Are you living together? Where do you go from here?

Pipsytwos Thu 06-Dec-12 17:28:06

To be fair to him on that she did sleep with someone else while he was at home with the baby and then stuck around for a further 6 months for his son until he decided he didn't love her and shouldn't stay for the baby. But the fact that he got engaged and didn't intend to marry shows he was willing to lie! I said that to him last night when he said he does want to marry me at some point but not now and asked why I don't believe him, I said he'd lied before then and he said 'good point, you've me there. But that was different!' Not sure how it's different, I guess he loved her, he had a baby with her... I'm so confused!

Pipsytwos Thu 06-Dec-12 17:32:42

Yeah we live together, I guess worse comes to worse and I'll have to move in with my parents. I just don't get it. We tried for our baby, had miscarriages before, I really believed that we were great! If this is that he didn't want to get married ever then he should've said at the beginning! Or maybe he did intend to but now has changed his mind. If it's a commitment thing, we had a baby surely thats more of a commitment than marriage; or maybe it's not to him as he now has 2 by different women!

BerylStreep Thu 06-Dec-12 17:44:49

My mantra has always been 'no diamond no deal'.

Abitwobblynow Thu 06-Dec-12 17:47:08

You aren't falling for this 'misdirection' are you?

Abitwobblynow Thu 06-Dec-12 17:49:29

Well, if he is so anti-marriage, it is time to withdraw the advantages of a wife. That goes for everything from your open loving legs to his socks being paired. Time for him to experience some lovely single life (which funnily enough my H after cheating and blaming me is VERY reluctant to experience) to see what choice he really wants to make.

ie, 'piss off, dear, if you don't value me enough'. Pipsy, don't go along with this.

Madeleine10 Thu 06-Dec-12 17:52:27

He sounds very, very weak to me, Pipsy. Getting engaged to his ex even though he didn't really want to, worrying about what others think all the time in OTT fashion, dithering about what he wants, not making himseklf clear aboutthis very important thing from the beginning.

There are a lot of difficult traits that a partner can have that sound more dramatic and immediately alarming than weakness, but trust me being weak is right up there with some of the worst, when you have to live with it on a daily basis.

It eats into trust (as you are already starting to see with your wondering about his lying or not to his ex.) and once trust comes into the equation, you are on a downward slope, full of constant disappointments, and yes confusion.

I'm sorry this is happening, but it's good it is now coming out in a way, certainly better than when you are married to him and discover he's a bit lacking in backbone.

amillionyears Thu 06-Dec-12 18:00:16

He says didnt intend to marry his ex. But he ended up engaged ,to show her commitment. But it didnt work out, so he didnt end up marrying her. But you may never know whether, if the ex partner didnt have an affair, whether they would actually ever have got married or not. Maybe not.

amillionyears Thu 06-Dec-12 18:03:27

Good post Madeleine 10.
I have also noticed over the years, that some people do not know their own minds. So, to be fair to them, they often cannot acurately predict how they themselves will feel in a few years time, in certain circumstances.

amillionyears Thu 06-Dec-12 18:04:59

I think that sometimes they do not bother to try and think about it. And, even if they do, they can predict wrongly.

pylonic Thu 06-Dec-12 18:10:24

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pipsytwos Thu 06-Dec-12 18:14:27

It's ridiculous that I've got myself in this situation. It's ridiculous that I'm sat wondering how to bring this up again when he comes home in about half an hour. And it's ridiculous that I'm the one that feels embarrassed and needy from this. Thanks to you all for making me see that I'm not being unreasonable here. I feel duped and under valued. Maybe he would've married her, I'll never know. But the fact is he got engaged to her. He's told me repeatedly that he'd like to marry me, and now just claims he would at 'some point' That point will never come, I do know it. I guess there really is something wrong with the way he feels about me. I'm a great mum, a great step mum, and I'm a supportive partner. He has no idea what he has!

Abitwobblynow Thu 06-Dec-12 18:29:43

So you know what YOU have.

It is ONLY when we value ourselves and set boundaries, that we get valued. Believe me Pipsy it has taken me years... and now I am ready to go, is when he stops being defensive and starts getting worried.

Too late, mate, I am done. I am worth more than your sad issues grin

orchidee Thu 06-Dec-12 18:31:39

I'd be wary of reading too much into his previous relationship. I suspect he doesn't know his own feelings (may not even care to) and so will give different answers to the sane question if you keep asking it.

What you do know is that he's not taking you seriously just now. He knows you want to talk about something but he doesn't want to, so he won't. He mat have git engaged (and tried for a baby) with his ex because it was easier to do that than to have The Talk. He may have given her bloody good reasons for her to have left the relationship - not that I Condi e cheating - but the point is, you inky know what he chooses to tell you, and he's letti.g you know now that honesty isn't important to him.

I think the question for you is, are you willing to continue this way? Bring up your daughter with this relationship as her role model? Do you both want to change your relationship in the same way?

From what you've written here he seems immature emotionally and he isn't showing any signs of trying to be in a partnership.

orchidee Thu 06-Dec-12 18:33:10

Bloody phone! Sorry for all the typos.

Madeleine10 Thu 06-Dec-12 18:36:14

Oh Amen sistah!! applauds @ABitwobblynow

Best piece of advice you can ever take in. There are NO negatives to learning to value yourself, setting your boundaries and sticking to them. None.

Losing people who can't deal with that is nothing to be concerned about, quite the opposite.

I hope you can sort this out Pipsy, it's a horrid situation..

FiercePanda Thu 06-Dec-12 18:36:14

Don't waste your time on someone unwilling to show you an inch of commitment - and as much as we may think having a child together is the ultimate commitment, he's shown it's not. By refusing to discuss it properly, by making you feel nervous about it, and by so obviously refusing to commit to you he's showing just how little he thinks about you and your relationship. He's spineless and terrified of commitment - a manchild. You can (and will) do better.

DontmindifIdo Thu 06-Dec-12 18:54:33

Having a child is not a commitment to you, it's a commitment to that child. It in no way is a sign he wants to be your partner for the rest of your life, it's a sign he is happy to have a child with you which means even if you split up, he'll be commited to that child until they grow up.

Ask him straight out, does he want to commit to you or not, and a commitment to spend the rest of his life with you is marriage for you, (not just words, you need action within 12 months). Ignore the name, the money, the various other excuses, tell him you'll give him time to think about it, but you want him to make a decision and tell you the truth, not just want he thinks he wants you to say.

If he won't marry you (and it doesn't sound like he has a good reason not too, or you'd have heard it by now), then you know that sooner or later, he's planning on leaving this relationship, he won't now because right now your relationship suits him - but he wants to leave when he's had enough. So start planning, you've got a 3 month old, are you on maternity leave? Can you make sure you go back to work, don't give up your career. Build savings separate to him. Get yourself in a situation where you can cope when he's decided he's ready to move on - of course he might never do that, but you know he wants the option, so best to be prepared.

1charlie1 Fri 07-Dec-12 08:43:52

It was important to my DH that I took his name when we married, because he wanted us to 'combine' in every possible way. I wasn't keen, and wanted to keep my own name. So he suggested that he would take my name as well, and we have 'double-barrelled'. We both feel happy with the result! He gets a real kick out of seeing mail addressed to his new name...

Googlella Fri 07-Dec-12 09:05:22

I could be clutching at straws here, but is it possible he is planning a romantic proposal at some point?

My dh annoyed me hugely when we were going out by refusing to commit. I got in a huge strop about it one Christmas, only to find he had a romantic proposal planned for Valentine's Day. Unless he just told me that to save his neck wink. Anyway we were married that Summer - 20 years ago.

Fingers crossed it all works out for you and your little one.

HECTheHallsWithRowsAndFolly Fri 07-Dec-12 09:13:30

Perhaps you could say ok, you don't want to marry. Fair enough. But I need the legal protections that marriage gives, so we need to make an appointment with a solicitor and sort out wills and all that stuff.

FryOneFatChristmasTurkey Fri 07-Dec-12 10:14:53

pylonic Thu 06-Dec-12 18:10:24
Why can't you just get married and keep your own surnames? Or am I incorrect that legally you can't do this?

There is no legal requirement to change your name on marriage. It is simply a convention that has come down from the days when a woman became a man's possession on marriage. Even these days using your husband's name is only a courtesy title.

Pipsy I'm hoping for the best outcome for you.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 07-Dec-12 11:50:50

I agree with HEC, get your paperwork sorted.

CockyPants Fri 07-Dec-12 13:06:07

Pipsy.
He does not want to marry you.
Accept, and move on.

olgaga Fri 07-Dec-12 15:55:19

Why wouldn't he want to change his surname to that of his own daughter? Have to say, he doesn't sound as though he wants to get married, or has any sense of commitment to either of you.

Just as well you gave her your name.

PerfectStranger74 Fri 07-Dec-12 16:12:18

No advice, but just want to say, my exp said to me "there's no point getting married as you refuse to change your name."

Because THAT'S the only reason anyone would ever get married?!

Even pointing out that his mum had got married, changed from maiden name to h's name, got divorced, kept (violent, kidnapper) h's name as kids had his name...got remarried, changed name again, got divorced, kept married name, met someone else, had dc and decided to give dc her maiden name, so changed her own back again.

I just can't understand having another name on my headstone from the name I have on my birth certificate.

AndrewMyrrh Sat 08-Dec-12 10:32:26

Googlella I don't really get big romantic proposals out of the blue. Marriage is probably one of the biggest commitments you will ever make in your life. Surely it is something to be mutually discussed, rather than having a proposal 'flung' on you?

<bitter experience>

Xales Sat 08-Dec-12 11:21:56

I think that if someone wanted a long term committed marriage to their partner then the excuses reasons he has given are crap.

He doesn't want to marry you. Once you discuss or get past his currant objections he brings up more.

Only he knows if that is because he doesn't see a long term commitment/relationship with you. What is he like with his first child?

Only you can know if you can live with that.

Pipsytwos Tue 11-Dec-12 12:48:20

He now claims he wants to marry me. Think my teary questioning of whether he loves me or not may have something to do with it. He started sizing up my ring finger... he sounded sincere and has been tying daily to show he loves me more. He said that he wants to marry me because he wants to spend his life with me. He said that before we talked he'd seen marriage as just a day where you express your love for each other and now he realises that it's more than that, it's about being united as a family and showing that commitment. He clearly doesn't want me to go, but I'm not sure whether that's 'just for now'. I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while and see where we're at in a few months. He's a good dad to both of his children and seems to be putting in the effort with me. Lets just hope I don't regret not getting out at this first sign of trouble...

LancsDad Tue 11-Dec-12 13:06:46

You sound as bad as each other to me.

He won't change his because everyone will take the piss.

You gave your child your name because people would take the piss of her.

You say you'd have taken his name if you didn't have child. What name would you have given any child then born after you had taken his name.

Indirectly you won't take his because people will take the piss.

Maybe neither of you are really that keen.

JugglingMeYorkiesAndNutRoast Tue 11-Dec-12 13:09:50

Ahh, that's nice that he's making more of an effort Pipsy, and has asked you !
Don't forget it's a big decision for both of you though, so I think you're wise to think it all over carefully. smile

DontmindifIdo Tue 11-Dec-12 14:16:56

well that does sound more positive. I suggest you book yourself a 'review the situation' date in 3 months time, put it in your phone calendar now so it pops up then to remind you not to 'drift'.

mercibucket Tue 11-Dec-12 14:57:25

Hmmm I wouldn't rush to marry him.

Pipsytwos Tue 11-Dec-12 16:24:28

Hmm LancsDad, I think that's seriously over simplified. I would take his name if it meant that much to him and if I just had me to care about. This is despite the fact that I never planned to take someone's name. As it is I always wanted children, so it would never have just been me. My partner and I named our girl to avoid her being mocked, he understands otherwise he wouldn't have done it. I don't believe either of us has to change our name to show we are committed to each other, but I do believe marriage is important. This is not actually about names anymore, it's about him making excuses and what is motivating him to do so. I love my partner, I want to marry him. I hope he loves me too. I guess I'll find out one way or another how he feels as I've (wisely or not) laid my cards out. He hasn't actually asked me but he's asked my ring size. I'm treating it with caution, and will make sure I don't end up with someone who doesn't want to be with me.

But I'm enjoy him being so attentive blush

Pipsytwos Tue 11-Dec-12 16:25:40

Great idea DontmindifIdo!

GinSoakedMu1berryLush Tue 11-Dec-12 16:37:17

that's an excuse

AlfalfaMum Tue 11-Dec-12 17:49:37

Almost every woman I know has kept her original name after marriage, myself included. Is it not the norm these days?

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