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oh said that he wanted to do something horrible to me

(131 Posts)
desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 11:15:12

He didn't say that he would, just that he wanted to hurt me (he was quite specific). I tried to get him to talk about it but we got into a "well you wanted me to talk about my feelings and you said that it is not right to deny someone's feelings, do you want me to lie" kind of twisted debate. He also often sings "Delilah" by Tom Jones. I do not think that he is trying to be threatening (as he hasn't threatened me) but I don't like it (am not having an affair or anything).

I don't know how I should react any more. Everything that he does seems very low level but it is constant and may be getting worse. He has never actually hurt me but has accidentally reversed the car into me (not hard but scary) when I was getting something out of the boot (I told him that I was but he says that he forgot/didn't hear) and also his foot slipped off the clutch when I was getting out of the car so it hit my hip going forwards (hard enough to bruise me) but again this was accidental (he says). He has also slapped my hand a couple of times now - again not hard.

I don't know how usual this all is. I've tried looking at various sites re abuse but they all seem so much worse (physically) than anything that has happened to me.

How do I know if something (like the car incidents) is accidental?

This hasn't all happened recently - but over a period of time.

How does abuse start? How do you know if it will escalate?

ClippedPhoenix Wed 05-Dec-12 11:17:27

OP he sound like a dangerous lunatic! I'd get shot of him like NOW!

RooneyMara Wed 05-Dec-12 11:19:20

It doesn't sound accidental. I'm sorry...I'd be making quiet plans to get away from someone like this.

He sounds very scary and odd and frankly, dangerous.

RooneyMara Wed 05-Dec-12 11:20:23

Don't tell him in any way that you are even thinking this. He could get more dangerous.

and read this which has some hints about getting out safely.

RnB Wed 05-Dec-12 11:21:19

Honestly OP, run. He sounds like a dangerous man. Sorry sad

EdithWeston Wed 05-Dec-12 11:22:28

I think this sounds dangerous for you. Unless the admission of the urge to harm you was related to urgent seeking of MH assessment/treatment (and it doesn't sound like it was), arrange a place of safety immediately and leave as soon as you can.

Lougle Wed 05-Dec-12 11:25:18

How long have you been together? Is this a recent change (as in months) or longer term (years)?

You sound quite vulnerable and scared. I would be too, tbh.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Wed 05-Dec-12 11:26:14

I've tried looking at various sites re abuse but they all seem so much worse (physically) than anything that has happened to me.

How do I know if something (like the car incidents) is accidental?

This hasn't all happened recently - but over a period of time.

How does abuse start? How do you know if it will escalate?

If it's bad enough that you're asking yourself these questions, it's bad enough to leave.
Honestly, if you feel anything less than safe, loved, cherished, trusted and trusting in a relationship, then it is a bad relationship for you and you should get out.

Please don't wait around to find out how much worse it could get.

LookBehindYou Wed 05-Dec-12 11:27:07

Leave him OP please. Do it calmly and safely. Don't wait.

Whocansay Wed 05-Dec-12 11:27:49

This really does not sound good. In fact it sounds extremely sinister. It sounds as if he's testing you to see what he can get away with. He wants to hurt you and has said as much? Do him the honour of taking him at his word and get the hell away from him. Do you live together? Have children? If so, get legal advice.

Hopefully someone with more experience will be along shortly.

Whocansay Wed 05-Dec-12 11:28:34

I see I took too long to type!
Good luck, OP.

RooneyMara Wed 05-Dec-12 11:29:02

Oh and about the 'minor' incidents...he's testing the water, he's trying it out. He is enjoying it and making out that you're imagining it (called 'gaslighting' and designed to make you think you must be going mad)

He is taking physical steps to control and injure you

it WILL escalate

you do not feel safe
you cannot trust him

He will keep doing it and it'll get worse

You have to get away while you can.

please leave him. it may not seem like much right now but it could get a whole lot worse if you stay with a guy like this

QuietTiger Wed 05-Dec-12 11:31:03

OP, the behaviour of your OH is not usual and not in any way normal - it is abusive, threatening, intimidating and designed to make you think you are imagining it.

GET OUT as soon as you can do so safely.

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 11:31:05

I am making plans to leave him - I just want to do it in a way that minimises disruption to the children and ensures that I get at least shared custody. I also need to get to an emotional state where I can leave without being drawn back when he goes into nice-guy-I-love-you-really mode (which I guess is partly why I am posting here - I am trying to convince myself emotionally that it is over - I know rationally but it still feels as if it is my fault - ie if I were a better person (am in no way perfect) then he'd not get so angry with me).

Also the other problem is that I have no proof that he is anything other than the polite, well spoken, well educated, high earning devoted father and partner that he appears to the world. Also this has happened over time and at the moment he is away so much with work that I don't see him often. Reading the link - he always drives aggressively when cross. I thought that all men did.

ZZZenAgain Wed 05-Dec-12 11:31:38

IMO it is not normal at all to want to physically hurt another person with whom you are in a relationship. Whether or not the car incidents were accidental, the fact that he says he does not want to deny his feelings which are specifically a desire to hurt you ), then something is already very wrong. I am sorry I think you are not wise if you stay with him.

ArtexTheHallWithBoughsOfMonkey Wed 05-Dec-12 11:32:30

Please leave, get away now, do it as soon as you can. He is very dangerous and he will escalate.

raskolnikov Wed 05-Dec-12 11:33:46

These aren't accidents, OP, how many times has he crashed the car since you've known him because his foot slipped off the clutch? You can't stay with someone like this - it'll slowly drive you mad, which is exactly what he's aiming for.

RooneyMara Wed 05-Dec-12 11:34:30

I think you should try and log these incidents with someone - solicitor, or someone from womens aid (local outreach can be very helpful - the main helpline or website will give you the number, also tips to delete computer history if you go and look are on there so he can't see you've been looking at it)

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 11:35:24

How long have you been together? Is this a recent change (as in months) or longer term (years)? nearly 20 years. He has always lost his temper and been very verbally aggressive. He has got emotionally abusive over the last few years - I now get lots of the silent treatment, lots of put downs and back handed compliments etc but the physical stuff started a couple of years back when I went back to work. I think that this has caused the problem - he does not really want me to work but cannot admit this to himself so he is angry with me for forcing the issue.

We do live together but are not married, have 3 children.

Lougle Wed 05-Dec-12 11:36:33

" I just want to do it in a way that minimises disruption to the children and ensures that I get at least shared custody."

Why would you not get (at least) shared custody, OP? Who was primary carer?

RooneyMara Wed 05-Dec-12 11:38:00

Just be aware that you don't have to stay with him. There's no court in the land that would make you stay.

All you have to sort out are access and living arrangements for your children, and somewhere for you to live - with the right legal advice you may be able to stay put and get him to leave. It depends on a lot of things, who owns the house etc.

He sounds like the sort of man who can't cope with the dreadful emasculation of his other half working.

what a dick angry

MrsFlibble Wed 05-Dec-12 11:38:15

minimises disruption to the children and ensures that I get at least shared custody

You want this unstable lunatic to have shared custody of your kids?, i wouldnt want him anywhere near my kids.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 05-Dec-12 11:38:16

get the fuck away from him and protect your children!

the fact that he told you what he wants to do to you is terrifying me. he is testing your boundaries. if you accept this as just being his feelings then he will ush it further and when he does hurt you he will say "i told you how i was feeling! you cant act surprised that i did it"

get out and remove him from all aspects of your life.

Leave. Now. Seriously.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 11:38:48

Why would you not get custody OP? Does he do the majority of the childcare?

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 11:39:28

He is terrifying by the way. And all these things he does are deliberate and are meant to frighten you.

RooneyMara Wed 05-Dec-12 11:39:40

Womens aid can also recommend you a decent family law solicitor with experience of domestic abuse, which this is.

You may be entitled to legal aid

Give them a call, or email, and see what they say.

Just get away from him. Your children are better off AWAY from him. Believe me Staying For The Kids is far more damaging than leaving ever could be.
I was a kid that got 'stayed for'. <damaged>

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 11:40:33

* i wouldnt want him anywhere near my kids.* realistically though that is not going to happen.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 05-Dec-12 11:41:15

"Also the other problem is that I have no proof that he is anything other than the polite, well spoken, well educated, high earning devoted father and partner that he appears to the world. "

you dont need any proof at all. you can simply say "it's over" and leave you have to justify yoursef to no-one, not even him as he will use your justification and twist it, make you to blame, try and tell you he'll work onhis temper etc. just tell him you're going and that's it.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 11:41:26

OP why do you think you wouldn't get custody?

raskolnikov Wed 05-Dec-12 11:42:10

How old are your DCs? Do you have family or a friend you can confide in?

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 11:42:27

He's been violent towards you. He is emotionally abusive. He manipulates and threatens you. That really is enough!

ArtexTheHallWithBoughsOfMonkey Wed 05-Dec-12 11:42:32

Women's Aid: 0808 2000 247

Call them now, tell them everything, and ask for their help.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Wed 05-Dec-12 11:43:28

realistically it can happen. just go. take teh children, dont even mention custody or the fact that he might try and get it. just go. dont let him near them. get good legal advice but do not hand over your children to this maniac. you wont go to prison for ignoring a court order telling you to.

LadyKinbote Wed 05-Dec-12 11:46:45

I agree you should phone someone like Women's Aid (there are other similar organisations too). They won't bully you into doing anything you're not comfortable with, they'll just chat and offer support if they can. Tell them everything you've told us here and they'll give you their honest opinion.

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 11:47:00

Why would you not get custody OP? I have no proof that he is aggressive. He spoils the children - buys them anything that they want, lets them eat what they want, stay up late when they want to etc. He also plays with them mainly. I do the background stuff (washing, cooking, cleaning etc) so I think that the children would say that they wanted to stay with him and not me. I've spent the last 2 years getting myself into a position where I could survive financially without him (I gave up my career to be a SAHM, I will be back on my feet financially by spring). Our two boys, one in particular, very much take his side - they say things like "why do you make daddy cross" and I thought that courts took the children's views into account. I suspect that any attempt on my part of argue that he is abusive would result in his taking the "she is slightly mad" tack which may well work.

It's not normal for someone to want to hurt you, let alone to tell you this. He must be really enjoying this, it is the worst kind of intimidation. How would you feel if he said this to one of your DC? You deserve better.

MrsFlibble Wed 05-Dec-12 11:48:29

OP hes proven to be unstable and violent, it sickens me to think that a way of "hurting" would be involving your children, it happens, i'd run as soon as possible.

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 11:49:40

Do you have family not that would help - they would not consider minor hand slapping as any kind of problem. There would have to be big bruises. It isn't that they think abuse is okay - they just would not define anything non physical as abuse (stick and stones etc) and the physical stuff would have to hurt and be clearly deliberate. I have very few friends as oh does not make it easy to sustain friendships.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 11:50:37

You have been a SAHM so you have been doing the majority of the childcare. Therefore the courts would keep that status quo.

Your children are learning their behaviour from him i.e. learning to blame you (or when they get older their partners) for their issues.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 11:51:20

This man is abusive. He is horrible. Ring Women's Aid, please.

ClippedPhoenix Wed 05-Dec-12 11:51:25

How old are your children OP?

MrsFlibble Wed 05-Dec-12 11:52:10

"why do you make daddy cross", that worries me, since they could very well grow up to repeat that behaviour, and just because he spoils them doesnt make him a good dad, it makes him a manipulator, he gives them what they want to make them be on his side, hurting you in the process.

NotSuchASmugMarriedNow Wed 05-Dec-12 11:52:27

How old are the children? Of course you'll get custody if y our a SAHM and he works?

lostconfusedwhatnext Wed 05-Dec-12 11:52:52

Whatever he said is not relevant to you needing to GET AWAY FROM HIM BECAUSE HE KEEPS RUNNING YOU OVER IN A CAR.

raskolnikov Wed 05-Dec-12 11:53:55

Being the lovely daddy who plays with them and spends money on them is a far cry from looking after them day and night, thru illness,washing, cooking and clearing up after them and driving them backwards and forwards. I suspect that whilst he might enjoy the fun stuff, the novelty of the day to day chores would wear off very quickly it did for my exH.

Flisspaps Wed 05-Dec-12 11:56:02

I have very few friends as oh does not make it easy to sustain friendships so effectively he has isolated you quite well too?

AwaitingSnow Wed 05-Dec-12 11:56:32

My exH told me he wanted to kill me when we had a row. I ignored it (and the other minor acts of violence)

A week later he tried to stab me.

Get out. Do not let him know you are leaving. Just pack and go with the children.

You've been given the warning signs. Do not ignore them. Phone Women's Aid.

desperatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 12:00:03

Sorry to hijack, but I just want to clarify that the OP isn't me, I've got an 'e 'where OP has got an 'a' in the username.

Ironically, I've also posted about this type of relationship but no-where near as bad as this. OP, this sounds dangerous for you and please listen to what everyone is saying. Good luck OP xx

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 12:04:19

Of course you'll get custody if y our a SAHM and he works? except I am not a SAHM anymore as I now work FT. Children are 7,10,12 and he has been doing most of the childcare for the last couple of years as I have been working evenings and weekends. HE KEEPS RUNNING YOU OVER IN A CAR he hasn't hit me hard though - so not really running over. Half of me still thinks that it was accidental. That is part of the problem.

I've tried looking at womans aid websites but I can't understand which category that I fit into . Ideally I'd just like to talk to someone trained to talk through VA and EA issues with people so that I can get things clear in my head (otherwise I think that I may find it hard to finally actually leave) but I cannot find anyone. We live near Leeds. Womans Aid seem to have drop ins but they do not say where they are. It isn't easy for me to ring anyone as he may see the numbers etc (I do not have a mobile).

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 12:06:04

sorry "desperatelyseekingsomething" - I'd have picked something different if I knew you existed (and I can't spell blush).

Proudnscaryvirginmary Wed 05-Dec-12 12:06:31

Yes it's abuse.

Yes he is hurting you on purpose.

Yes it will get worse.

I truly believe he will end up killing you if you don't leave him.

He wants to kill you.

He is telling you in no uncertain terms who he is, what he wants and he is testing you to see how far and quickly he can push the boundaries.

MrsFlibble Wed 05-Dec-12 12:08:16

Hes giving you the warnings, so get out, his sons will end up just like him, and one of them might just go too far, could you live with that?

The power is yours now, you have to go, he wants to you, and he will, might not be in a physical way, but hes already started by slowly turning your children against you.

MrsFlibble Wed 05-Dec-12 12:09:04

*hurt

GeekLove Wed 05-Dec-12 12:10:36

Can you ring from work? Or get a cheap PAYG phone to keep at work. Don't ts worry about categories - pack a bag, get documents and get yourself and the kids out NOW. What's the betting it's going to get worse in the holidays?

Flisspaps Wed 05-Dec-12 12:11:35

Women's Aid's helpline number won't show up on an itemised BT phone bill.

You could call them from a phone box too, for free.

Also, they won't publicise where the drop-in sessions are as they don't want abusers turning up there! Call them and they'll tell you where you can find one.

LadyKinbote Wed 05-Dec-12 12:13:38

OP - it looks like the Independent Domestic Violence Advisors in Leeds are called HALT. Their number is 0113 243 2632. I would just phone them for a chat. If you don't feel they're the right people they'll point you in the right direction.

Just noticed you don't have a mobile (is this his decision - that would be a massive red flag). As it's a local number could you make something up? They won't say who they are if a man phones up to check.

LadyKinbote Wed 05-Dec-12 12:14:43

x-post - Women's Aid are a good starting point too

AlienRefluxLooksLikeSnow Wed 05-Dec-12 12:16:56

Accidently? twice?
Please Op, take the kids and go, they will moan, and ask for their Dad, you are their Mother, and you and them are in real danger.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 12:17:27

Oh he did it deliberately in the car OP. Did he jump out shocked and worried about hurting you? Did he apologise profusely? It sounds like he tried to blame it on you by the fact that he hadn't heard what you said (another lie).

But that aside this man is still abusive. He isolates you, he verbally abuses you. He uses the children against you. I think if you got the children away from him they would start behaving differently and may even open up about some of the behaviour in their father that they were afraid of.

And the fact that you work now (and presumably he does too) may make it more complicated for parental responsibility. But tbh I would do what others said and get you and the children away from this man and then worry about access.

Please ring Women's Aid. This is serious. This cannot be fixed. This will not get better, in fact may get worse.

foolonthehill Wed 05-Dec-12 12:18:37

The women's aid number would not show up on a BT phone bill (not sure about other networks)

You are definitely the victim of Domestic abuse and not dissimilar to me, I got away a year ago.

your children are still young enough to learn to respect and love people in a healthy way and to understand right and wrong in an intimate relationship. By getting away from their father you can access help and support for them as well as for you. (School and local WA will have resources to use).

My children are not through the woods yet, but we are all much better. My "upstanding, religious, centre of the community" is not allowed face to face contact with the children.

Take your courage in both hands op and if you need help then ask...here or elsewhere.

And a cheap (secret) PAYG phone might just be a life saver.....

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 12:22:00

Leeds Women Aid - 0113 246 0401. They will give details of drop ins. They won't advertise where they are as they will probably be safe houses.

Use a phone box on the way to/from work if you have to.

ClippedPhoenix Wed 05-Dec-12 12:28:49

In one of your postings you've said he's away with work a lot OP which is an ideal opportunity to plan your departure. When is he next away?

gloomywinters2 Wed 05-Dec-12 12:30:26

Get the hell out now before this man kills you, your saying there,s much worser abuse or he diden,t hit you harder no matter how hard he hits it dosen,t matter it,s not normal abuse is abuse

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 12:30:41

Did he jump out shocked and worried about hurting you? Did he apologise profusely? no - that's what is bothering me I think. School I tried almost talking to someone at the school. I got as far as asking what they would do if a parent brought up the subject of emotional abuse. They said that they would call SSs to try to get the children removed sad and that the mother was not their responsibility, that they had no duty of care etc. This just made me feel far worse. Thank you for the numbers smile

desperatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 12:35:00

*desparatelyseekingsomethingWed 05-Dec-12 12:06:04

sorry "desperatelyseekingsomething" - I'd have picked something different if I knew you existed (and I can't spell )*

nothing to apologise for OP smile mine's only a namechange for talking about sensitive stuff anyway. Ironic isn't it? Only mentioned it so there was no confusion for you, your situation is so much more serious.

-------------------------------------
This is certainly abuse and will escalate. Make sure you log out of everything and clear cookies and history - or use 'in private' browsing.

If you are able to get a cheap pay-as-you-go mobile secretly, that would really help you.

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 12:39:30

OP the woman you spoke to was a victim blamer and had no understanding of abusive relationships (also pretty misogynistic to not acknowledge the suffering an abused woman goes through).

SS would not take your children away.

But the situation your children are in is not doing them any good. And it certainly isn't doing you any good.

Lougle Wed 05-Dec-12 12:46:07

Look, OP, I'm a fairly 'once married, always married' sort. I know you're not married, but you can see what I mean. I still say 'leave now'.

You would know if he loved you. He would be mortified that he hurt you. You wouldn't be wondering if he did it deliberately. It's not normal sad

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 12:48:13

the woman you spoke to was a victim blamer worryingly it was a whole committee of them - I brought it up "in passing" to test the water at a meet the governors session when the safeguarding committee were talking about something. The whole (entirely female) GB were in agreement, as was the (female) deputy head. The chair was a senior nurse at our local surgery. It made me realise just how many people would blame me as their attitude did seem to be that the woman must have done something to "make her partner hurt her".

NettleTea Wed 05-Dec-12 12:56:08

And of course its just worth mentioning that, with the power and money of the motor industry, if you wanted to kill someone, then running them over and claiming 'accident' is probably one of the most sure fire ways to do it and to not get prosecuted.

Just think of the rubbish sentances/suspended sentances for mowing down whole families when pissed out of your head. The motor industry dont want cars classified as weapons, they dont want deliberately driving when you are drunk to be a murder charge when you kill someone, and they pay huge amounts to ensure that the law remains on the side of the motorist.

So a man, who's partner has never said anything to anyone about problems within the relationship and has kept quiet about her plans to leave, and who appears to the outside world to be a perfect husband and dad, can EASILY get away with saying it was a dreadful dreadful accident, and that he is going to be mortified for life. Some well rehursed phrases, shed a tear or two at the funeral, and he's home dry.

Do you have life insurance by any chance??? Could be he knows once you make contact with the outside world (work/friends) you might want to go. Youve done the job of raising the kids while they were young. He is probably looking at his finances - doesnt want to split the home/pay maintanance and he sounds like a sadist. He seems to enjoy watching you in pain, and has said QUITE SPECIFICALLY how he wants to hurt you.

Believe him

foolonthehill Wed 05-Dec-12 12:56:24

just because they agree with each other does not make them right.

NettleTea Wed 05-Dec-12 12:59:22

Those people obviously are not up to date with the law. They could try going to social services, but SS certainly wouldnt take the kids away and they would support the mother to leave and remain safe.
But I would speak to womens aid.
some people recommend talking to Respect too - its a mens site, but the really understand stuff and often are not as busy as WA, as not so many abusers ring up for advice

JuliaScurr Wed 05-Dec-12 13:01:30

[rightsofwomen.org]

JuliaScurr Wed 05-Dec-12 13:02:22
foolonthehill Wed 05-Dec-12 13:03:33

PS*asking what they would do if a parent brought up the subject of emotional abuse. They said that they would call SSs to try to get the children removed and that the mother was not their responsibility, that they had no duty of care etc.*

The school called social services to my home...as it happened my "D"H was away on a work trip and i was planning to leave whilst he was away...with the DC, they said "as you are keeping the children safe by removing them from the situation we will open a file but do nothing at present If you were ever to allow him back into your home with the children then we would be seriously worried and would instigate investigation into the parenting and safety of the children"

which i took as code for get out, stay out and keep him away...all of which i have done.

At the end of the day no-one can remove you from your partner, except you.

JuliaScurr Wed 05-Dec-12 13:04:59

when you get their advice, do it

(not like my daft friend who then lost her house)

AbigailAdams Wed 05-Dec-12 13:07:51

OP - society teaches us to blame the victims of abuse, even children in some cases. It is how so many abusive men get away with this for so long. These woemn have just internalised those messages. As foolonthehill says just because they all agreed doesn't make them right.

You have to put your needs first. Your needs and your children's needs are the same here. To get away from your partner.

Rights of Women

vixsatis Wed 05-Dec-12 13:15:40

I usually am firmly of the view that parents should stay together for the children BUT I think your partner sounds terrifying. I think that you should get out as soon as possible. Rather than speculating on custody you should go and see a good solicitor now and find out what the true position is likely to be. You wil be financially independent by spring. You have put yourself in a good position to leave and you should do so for your sake and the sake of your children

ClippedPhoenix Wed 05-Dec-12 13:22:00

Also this has happened over time and at the moment he is away so much with work that I don't see him often

OP, again, can you arrange to when he's away?

desparatelyseekingsomething Wed 05-Dec-12 16:24:16

I can arrange to leave him but need to be sure that it is the right thing to do and need to know what to say to the children. I think that I am sure that I need to go but at the moment we are going through a good phrase (he is away and I have been away so haven't actually really seen one another) so it is harder to be determined about it.

MrsFlibble Wed 05-Dec-12 16:55:37

desparatelyseekingsomething, you need to stop over thinking this, its a good phase because you havent seen each other, what happens when you do, he is obviously a menace, when is it the finally straw, when hes seriously injured you? it maybe be too late by then, get out while you can.

i think you should read back your last post and really take it in.

you're in a good place because you've both been away and havent seen each other <- can you not see why this is? you havent been near him, you've had freedom, you havent had to worry or put up with his bahaviour!

he is teaching your children that it is acceptable to treat people this way. its not too late to change things and make a new start and have a happy home for your dc's

RooneyMara Wed 05-Dec-12 17:21:23

No, I think you're right, it's hard to leave till you reach your own personal 'tipping point', and something happens that crystallises your thinking into action.

In the meantime address the issues as much as you feel able - like, getting things ready, detaching in your own mind, involving other people and agencies.

Do what feels right for you, right now - and you will gradually get to a place where it becomes more possible for you, and more urgent.

Notto say that what's going on isn't utterly wrong, and pretty damgerous - not to mention quite bad for your kids to witness/experience - but only you can decide when it's the right moment to get out.

Good luck.

I had a friend whose husband seemed great to everyone on the outside.

They had a bit of a gas leak in the house once but she noticed it and got her and their DD out. He was very worried and shocked.

The brakes on her car went funny. She noticed and got them fixed.

The house went on fire one night. He wasn't there. Arrived home and had to be physically restrained from going into the house to rescue her and the DD.

My friend and her DD died in that fire. He killed them. He had caused the gas leak. And tampered with the brakes. And he set that fire.

It turned out afterwards that there had been many very low level instances of him abusing her. She didn't think it was bad enough to leave. And they were in the middle of adopting their DD. So she stayed.

Get some professional and legal advice. And take this seriously. You obv are worried enough to have spent the last few years getting organised financially. You just need to keep going.

blackeyedsusan Wed 05-Dec-12 19:19:19

you could ring the police about the threats he made to you and tell them about the 2 incidents here he has hurt you and you suspect that they are not an accident. you will need to be ready to leave at this opoint though. you do need to be ready to leave. take stuff to work and leave it in a safe place.

ladyWordy Wed 05-Dec-12 19:20:26

I have the feeling you have posted before, desperately... Some of the details seem familiar. If so, the thing that has changed is quite severe escalation.

If you didn't get a shocked apology with the car incidents, you can be sure there was an element of deliberate action there (I think it was 100% deliberate, frankly). Stepping on feet 'accidentally', shutting hands in cupboards etc is fairly typical abuse escalation; but use of a car, and the singing of that appalling song, is as clear a signal of intent to harm as you are going to get.

I think you are in danger. It's time to take action.

Do not worry about what to say to the children. You are in charge of their safety. What you say, goes.

Also, try not to worry about what he'll say, how he'll twist things, because they all twist things, or say their partner's mad, or that they'll go for custody.... Men like this are extremely predictable and the agencies have heard all of it before, multiple times, every day of the week. And they are quite used to dealing with smooth talking, well-educated abusers. It's nothing new or remarkable to them. sad

NeedlesCuties Wed 05-Dec-12 19:26:25

Trust me, Women's Aid have seen and heard everything. So have the police.

Your H is telling you what is in his mind, what his gameplan is.

Get out, get out and stay out.

You and your DC deserve more.

mummytime Wed 05-Dec-12 19:40:32

If you don't get out, with the kids now. One day they could be dialling 999 because of what he has done to you. However self-centred pre-teens can be they don't want or need that. Protect them, get out with them. Teach them about self-respect and respecting others.

ImperialBlether Wed 05-Dec-12 23:33:18

God, he sounds dreadful and the last thing you want is your sons becoming like him. Isn't this one of the advantages of not being married, that you would automatically have custody?

By the way I told my children that they didn't have a choice as to who to live with, that I would never put them in that position. I told them they would be staying with me. If you ask a child you risk them living with the person who would make them feel the guiltiest. My daughter admitted that because my son would choose to stay with me, she thought she would have to choose to be with her dad, even though she wanted to stay with me, because she would feel too guilty to see him lose both children.

I would definitely log these 'accidents' with someone - who would be best? A lawyer? I would want him to know that they were logged, too, but doubt I'd tell him who they were logged with.

StillSquiffy Thu 06-Dec-12 09:16:55

I can arrange to leave him but need to be sure that it is the right thing to do and need to know what to say to the children

You already know it is the right thing to do. You already know that if anyone on the outside knew of the situation and you didn't leave then steps would be taken to remove the children who are witness to this.

He has twice deliberately tried to hurt you. He is dangerous. He will be dangerous when your children turn into teenagers and start standing up to him. They need protecting from that.

You are right about children having their views taken into account, and they may choose for shared custody. But at least they will have a choice. And when they see for themselves what he is like they will choose you. At the moment they have no choice so their behaviour is driven by the need for them to preserve the status quo by adopting all of their Dad's behaviours.

Car accidents like you have described are not accidents. They are sadistic. You and your beloved children are not safe. We'd all lay down our lives for our kids, but what happens if your OH took yours - who would protect your kids then?

HullyEastergully Thu 06-Dec-12 09:22:15

He sings "Delilah"

forgetmenots Thu 06-Dec-12 09:35:32

OP, what did he say to you? Did he go into detail? I worry that he could be planning something - it is clearly escalating and I agree with the person above who mentioned gaslighting (have a look for it).

You must, must leave. Keep a note somewhere safe of all he has said and done (with dates and times if you can). Anywhere is safer than where you are now, you are living in fear and that can't continue. Enlist any help you can - you don't have to tell anyone why you are leaving just say that you are afraid for your safety. When you are out you can then get the right advice on next steps, but this is urgent OP. This sounds so frightening.

forgetmenots Thu 06-Dec-12 09:37:42

CiderwithBuda I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend and her DD. that is just too awful for words.

amillionyears Thu 06-Dec-12 09:43:10

People on MN can help you with all the practical stuff, as they are doing on here.
I think your main problem with all of this now, is yourself.
You are making the plans to leave.

But in your mind you are not yet ready emotionally to leave.

You say you dont know how usual his abuse is, and you have looked up various websites, and they dont seem to quite fit.
I would say, that this is because, he is more devious and has the potential to be more dangerous than others.
Are you waiting for the really big event to happen before you act?

Lavenderhoney Thu 06-Dec-12 09:44:27

I would not be hanging around. He has told you he is going to hurt you and has tried to run you over twice. He is not messing about. He will get worse over Christmas - aren't dv offence higher at christmas? The best gift you can give your boys is the assurance you will be there and not killed in an "accident"

Have you someone you can stay with? Even your dm? What changes in spring to make you financially secure? Can you stay with family/ friends til then?

Don't tell him you are going. Tell him when you have gone. And get a mobile. And when you have gone, he shouldn't know where you are, and you need to tell the school not to let him collect the dc. Please go to the police and tell them what happened, so it's on record and if they get called to your place as theres been another "accident" they might not let him get away with it.

I am sure womens aid will have all the help for you. Please leave him, you don't need much- would work give you an advance so you could rent somewhere?

foolonthehill Thu 06-Dec-12 11:14:21

have you noticed that EVERYONE here believes you? NO-one is urging you to stay and work on it for the sake of the DC or yourself...

take a step beck, put your emotions away for a minute and use your sensible rational head to look at what has been written by you and by posters.

Please, believe what he has told you about himself and protect yourself and DC,

JuliaScurr Thu 06-Dec-12 11:53:01

Yes lavender, more risk at Xmas - also around when women leave - so don't tell him a nd give him much time before you go. Take advice from Women's Aid etc

Keep in touch - Mumsnetters will help you smile

rosettismuse Thu 06-Dec-12 11:58:33

He sounds like a dangerous man. Leave as soon as you can and do not tell him where you are. Seek legal advice ASAP. Good luck x

NicknameTaken Thu 06-Dec-12 12:14:18

OP, I live in your general region and I have been through the process of leaving an abusive man. Not perhaps a very high level of violence, as these things go - he bruised me twice by banging me with the pushchair and grabbing it off me. I'm glad we didn't have a car! But he was scary and horrible and I'm glad to be free.

I'm going to pm you in case you want any more details of the services I accessed locally, or just a private chat.

foolonthehill Thu 06-Dec-12 12:42:06

careful with pming nickname..an alert shows in the main registered email account, best to check it is private and secure before using pm

NicknameTaken Thu 06-Dec-12 12:47:12

Shit, thanks for the warning. Sorry OP, I sent you a pm so please note fool's point re email.

Lougle Thu 06-Dec-12 13:56:13

To be crystal clear, when the car accident happened with the clutch occured, what exactly happened?

When my Dad hit my Mum with the car (a real accident, promise) the car jolted forward and there was sudden acceleration, because Dad's foot had quite literally slipped from the clutch to the accelerator.

As soon as the car stopped, Dad jumped out of the car, sobbing, checking Mum was ok, absolutely devestated.

It sounds like your DH said 'oops'.

Lavenderhoney Sat 08-Dec-12 16:32:16

Are you ok, op?

TotesFeckingAmaze Sat 08-Dec-12 18:06:46

He sounds like a psychopath. Get out NOW.

Seabright Sat 08-Dec-12 20:50:18

OP - trust your instinct. You feel this is wrong, so it's wrong. You may not feel you can leave today, but you know that the day is coming. And you'll find yourself again

forgetmenots Sat 08-Dec-12 20:58:42

Hope you are ok OP... I really hate it when the posters on threads like this don't come back, not because I'm nosey but I worry and so do many others.

3littlefrogs Sat 08-Dec-12 21:12:12

Everything you have said screams psychopath. I rarely post on these threads, but what you describe is really chilling.

When I was a student nurse doing my psychiatric secondment, the consultant brought in 3 patients to talk to us. The first two were suffering from very obvious signs of illness. The third was a very charming, attractive well spoken young man. We (a group of naive 19 year olds) were impressed and charmed by him. We were puzzled by his inclusion in the group.

We later learned that he was a particularly dangerous psychopath. The consultant explained that this was the most important thing to learn. Appearances can be deceptive. I have never forgotten it.

Please get away from this man. He is not capable of real care and concern for anybody.

SirBoobAlot Sat 08-Dec-12 21:23:57

Really concerned that we haven't heard from the OP for a few days now.

OP I do hope that you and your children are safe and are far away from that bastard.x

foolonthehill Sat 08-Dec-12 22:09:17

me too.

amillionyears Sat 08-Dec-12 22:13:47

Dont forget that if posters become worried as well, the oh is doing more damage.
Sometimes ops dont come back. But sometimes someone may have pmed them for example. Or their phone/computer isnt working properly for a few days. Or they are busy. Or or.

HisstletoeAndWhine Sat 08-Dec-12 22:16:59

Dear God, he'll kill her, won't he? sad

Lougle Sat 08-Dec-12 22:54:44

I don't think we can assume that the OP has come to harm, or will necessarily come to harm, just because she hasn't posted for 3 days.

JuliaScurr Sun 09-Dec-12 12:30:01

It's Sunday - where is OP???

forgetmenots Sun 09-Dec-12 12:39:42

You're right of course Lougle, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees terrible stories on the news and wonders if they are MN posters who never came back (there was one about six months ago in particular). I hope she feels she can come back and that she will get support here.

OP, we hope you are okay and happy if you're still reading.

amillionyears Sun 09-Dec-12 14:26:30

Posters do not have to post back again.
I often post on the MH board, and several do not post back again.

And if they do, they often say that they have been busy, or a bit regret posting in the first place, or have decided what to do, or maybe dont think they need the help anymore. Any number of reasons actually.

This op seems to be very sensible. She has been planning things for 2 years. Yes, something may have happened to her, but chances are they havent.
If we all get worried everytime a poster did not return, we then wont be able to help the next person that could do with our assistance.

forgetmenots Sun 09-Dec-12 14:36:02

Fair play amillionyears, there's no pressure on her to post back or anything.
(Certainly not from me). FWIW I don't think anything will have happened to her.

But it's part of the empathy shown on these boards to show concern for people, and when behaviour sounds particularly alarming I think it's only natural to wonder if all is well, perhaps not to fear the worst but to just check in and let the OP know that people are concerned about her.

I don't want this to get off topic in case that puts the OP off replying, and would hope she would feel able to do so whenever she is ready or has time. Wouldn't want any concern (however well meaning or misguided) be a barrier to that.

JustFabulous Sun 09-Dec-12 14:45:57

I hope she can't post because she is out.

CalamityKate Sun 09-Dec-12 14:47:08

For heavens sake - and I say this in the nicest possible way - wake up.

Nobody, either boyfriends, parents, friends, partners, taxi drivers and other sundry lift givers, has ever bumped me with a car. I don't know anyone who's ever been bumped by the car of someone they know.

But you've been bumped TWICE - by the same person. Who also happens to have admitted he wants to hurt you?!

Be logical.

tiredofwaitingforitalltochange Sun 09-Dec-12 14:57:43

No, I don't know anyone who has been bumped by accident with a car either. He used the car as a weapon against you.

And like 3Littlefrogs I have done a psychiatric placement, in fact I have just finished it. I agree that this man sounds like a psychopath.

You should leave immediately. If you can't do this, write a letter or an email detailing all these small incidents. If he runs you over in the future it will be understood that it was deliberate and your children won't end up being raised by a psychopath.

I would be inclined to seek legal advice about a restraining order and seeking full custody or at least supervised access as well.

AndrewMyrrh Sun 09-Dec-12 15:00:43

If she is still reading, I would be reiterating Imperial's advice to make sure these low level incidents are logged with someone - perhaps a solicitor, or Woman's Aid.

I think he is grooming you - checking out what your reactions are to these 'accidents' (my arse) with the car. Telling you specifically that he wants to harm you. How exactly does he want to do that? Did he say? He is gauging your reaction, and will escalate.

It is chilling to read that your DC say things like 'why do you make Daddy cross?' I don't like the dynamic of it being a macho household where you are (literally) the whipping boy. I would be inclined to tell them that grown ups are responsible for their own emotions and reactions, and proper grown ups don't blame other people.

I hope you get things sorted.

AndrewMyrrh Sun 09-Dec-12 15:08:25

foolonthehill, I think I may remember you? Was your posting name then related to glass containers?

cumfy Sun 09-Dec-12 15:19:11

Get out now.

From a slightly different angle, I also wonder what his account of you to others is.
Is he making out nothing's wrong or has he been trying to query your mental state ?
Have other people been treating you in a slightly odd or disregarding manner ?
Trying to imply you were mentally unstable to others would be part of a strategy to gaslight you and create a self-fulfilling prophecy by destabilising you.

All the signs are that he is an intelligent psychopath who is trying to manipulate you into leaving him because he is having an affair.
But when you do it will all be made to look like your fault.

ladyWordy Sun 09-Dec-12 15:37:16

3littlefrogs, what an experience that must have been. I wish such knowledge was more widespread.

I hope the OP is OK: though it's not so unusual for a distressed MNer to be away for a time. But if you're reading OP, please make a move with some urgency.

A lady in my region was recently brutally attacked by her husband. I expect she thought she was safe, or had plenty of time.

Her children are now stuck with social services as their only parents, since she did not survive the attack.

Op - safeguarding in schools is about the children, lots of places that have safe guarding polices are about the children. It's because they have a duty of care to the child and basically adults have to make their own decision. That doesn't mean they wouldn't be supportive of situations. And please remember schools do not have the power to take anyone's kids away.

You need to talk to someone in rl. No one will think this is ok. You will be believed.

foolonthehill Sun 09-Dec-12 23:37:52

No, Andrew i have always and will forever be a fool!
Though my story is a common one....unfortunately.

AndrewMyrrh Mon 10-Dec-12 16:02:50

Fool, sorry,mistaken identity.

I'm not really Andrew either, Beryl in Christmas disguise.

desparatelyseekingsomething Mon 10-Dec-12 22:43:21

Thank you for the kind comments. I am fine and I am sorry if I have worried anyone sad. I can only really log on to this site when oh is not around and so tend to be a bit sporadic. I don't think that I am in any immediate danger but I do realise that I need to leave him at some point pretty soon

forgetmenots Mon 10-Dec-12 22:55:48

Don't worry desperately. Those of us who are worried are just concerned for your welfare, that's not your fault or to be apologised for.

I'm so glad to hear you are planning to leave. Even accepting that has taken a lot of strength and courage, I hope you see that.

ElectricSheep Mon 10-Dec-12 23:17:02

Just a few points DSS

What's he like apart from these incidents? You say he gaslights (denies things that have happened to make you seem 'mad'), stonewalls (silent treatment), manipulates (DC). This sounds bad enough to want to finish the relationship anyway to me. Does he treat you as an equal? Do his fair share of hswrk? Make decisions with you? Split finances equally? All these behaviours are controlling and abusive and you deserve far far more from a relationship. You may get the nice treatment for a while but even that you can't really enjoy because you know it will inevitably be followed, as night follows day, by the abuse.

What are your reservations about leaving?

I'm sure you are aware that abuse in the vast majority of cases starts as emotional, moves on to sporadic physical incidents and then escalates to regular physical abuse, which for 2 women a week on 2010-11 resulted in their murder. The trouble with taking time to decide is that you cannot be sure at what rate your particular abuser will choose to escalate his abuse.

A court will take into account what DC over 12 say about where they'd like to live if they deem it even appropriate to ask, which is fairly unusual - IF there are no other reasons that need consideration. In your case emotional abuse and threatened and actual physical abuse would be major considerations.

If you are not married and leave you will not be entitled to an equal split of assets I'm afraid. So any money you can get, do - by fair means or foul. He will not give you a bean when you have gone if he can avoid it.

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