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Feel cheap :-((187 Posts)
Well I did a silly thing and am feeling really down about it. Basically I've had a dreadful year with my mum dying and splitting up from my husband. I was just starting to get my equilibrium back - going out with friends and really beginning to enjoy life again.
Anyway on Friday it was my friends birthday and we went out as a big group. One of the guys in the group I got on really well with and we spent ages talking, dancing and just getting to know one another. He was so lovely - walking me to my cab and asking me to tact when I was home safe.
Anyway the next day he rung me and asked to take me out to lunch. We had a lovely time - talking, laughing and generally getting on like a house on fire. He was such a gentleman - always walking on the traffic side of the pavement etc. He dropped me home and we had a bit of a kiss.
Later that night he text me and after a few more texts and a phone call I agreed to go to his for dinner. Turned up and it was all candles and open fires. Put a cd on and it was my favourite song in the world. We both said it was like we had known each other forever.
Anyway one thing led to another and I stayed the night and we had sex. Only the third person I've slept with in my life.
Last night I went round to my friends who was also out on the Friday. I find out that after I left they pretty much did everything but sleep together.
Anyway I'd arranged to ring him that evening so told him that I had found out about Friday night. He point blank denied it and got really angry about it - saying she was stirring just because we had something potentially really good together - before practically putting the phone down on me.
I 100% believe her. Feel so cheap and used. Have never ever trusted someone enough to sleep with them that quickly. What a fool. Just really knocked my duck off.
You're not cheap, he is.
Sorry you're feeling sad
You'll have to put it down to experience. You had a fun night and an enjoyable evening of sex and seduction with a guy who, unfortunately, seems to specialise in that kind of thing. You're not cheap at all and you're not a fool. How were you to know until your friend told you?
"saying she was stirring just because we had something potentially really good together"
If it wasn't for the above I would say how nice you had a good time.
Because of the above I'm going to say how bloody lucky you are to have got away from this lying, manipulative scumbag. Really on your behalf.
Just chalk it up to experience. You had a nice time and felt flattered.
What were you expecting? Marriage or a committed relationship after shagging on a first date?
So he allegedly snogged your friend after you left the group on Friday and you shagged him the following day.
As I see it, he's free and you're free to shag who you want and it's a great shame you've gone in heavy as you're unlikely to be invited round for seconds.
Forget all this nonsense about feeling 'cheap and used'. You're a grown woman who had an itch that needed scratching and to that extent you used him as much as he used you in order to get your mutual rocks off.
No blame - no shame.
Nothing cheap about you at all - it's him.
Think of him as your "dipping your toe in the water" man. He was obviously very attracted to you (no matter who else may have caught his eye), liked you and went to the trouble of making dinner etc - try to take something away from that.
He's a berk and you deserve better. Dismiss him from your mind as the irrelevant pipsqueak he is.
Definitely a learning experience. ie. a man who has a flat full of candles, fires and smoochy CDs who tells you it's like you've known each other for ever on the first date is probably just interested in the contents of your knickers! Don't let it put you off and don't feel used.
I agree with Izzy. The only person making you feel cheap and used is yourself.
Just a quick question.
How long have you known your friend?
You say you 100% trust her. If she is to be trusted, fair enough.
Agree with everyone else but I'm puzzled why your friend would get off with a bloke who'd clearly been romancing you all evening, in full view of her.
How close are you to your friend and how well do you know her?
All sounds a bit fish to me!!!! X
neither of you are cheap, you were just having fun
I'm not liking the sound of your friend much....
The number 1. rule teenage girls used to be taught:
'men will do and say ANYTHING to get into your knickers'.
Number 2. rule: (I have only just absorbed this, after understanding that he crossed the red flag of instant declaration of love):
get to know them slowly.
Of course, if you want a good mutual sorting out, go for it. But you have made the decision, you know exactly what you want and you are the one in charge.
I don't think he did anything wrong.
He's a free agent, for the sake of courtesy he could have mentioned that he'd had an, er, encounter with your friend so as to give you the chance to decide if you wanted to, er, follow her down that road.
I don't blame him for getting arsey with you actually.
You had a nice night, shame it went this way but that's how it is sometimes.
The thing he did wrong was to lie though and then try to blame the friend.
that says he's a devious little shit - not the almost shagging of the friend, or the shagging of you but the lies and the trying to cause friction between friends.
We both said it was like we had known each other forever.
yes.... abitwobbly has got it...I'm afraid you fell for one of the oldest tricks in the book...
the old 'I've never met a girl like you before'....
Don't beat yourself up about it though...you're allowed to enjoy sex and it sounds like a fun evening was had by both you and him.
Yes well that's not great but he was probably hoping it wouldn't come up, especially if he really did like the OP, not excusing it, he should have just held his hands up. Maybe not quite as much happened as the friend said though. Guess we will never know.
Yes, the friend might be stirring a bit...or exaggerating what happened between them.
I can't really imagine how he would raise it in conversation on the night...and could you really expect him too?
...'you're once, twice, three times a lady....A moment....I have a small confession to make...I committed an indiscretion with Sophie last night...bit of a mistake tbh, I was blotto and she wouldn't go all the way....don't let's allow it to come between us and what we have....mmmm I feel like I've known you all my life....may I tempt you with another tia maria my dear?'
Well, your friend says he was interested in her but in spite of getting frisky he didn't sleep with her and he called YOU the next day. He didn't take HER to lunch and dinner.
Perhaps your friend was a bit upset and exaggerated what happened to cover her disappointment.
I've heard a few people tell me what a great night they nearly had only to hear the other side which is more like The Great Escape.
Yes, the friend isn't exactly covering herself in glory here. Sounds as though she's stirring.
Don't feel cheap why should you? These days it's ok for women to have and enjoy sex without judgement. Put it down to experience and carry on the fun of being single just stay safe and if you meet anyone you really feel is meaningful to you then make him wait a bit so you avoid getting hurt.
He was a free man who had an encounter with your friend before you.
He may truely like you, don't feel cheap.
And even if he doesn't, you enjoyed yourself thats nothing to be ashamed of.
Your friend is a stirrer though, as i don't get the relevence of her bringing it up considering they were not a item.
So if he'd been flirting with you all night on friday why did your friend get off with him the minute you left in a taxi?
Bit odd of her i'd say...
He was obviously casting his net wide... not the most romantic but not entirely awful behaviour either... you shagged him on the first date so you can't expect him to not be seeing anybody else around the same time. If you want exclusive rights then you need to date for long enough to have the 'exclusivity' conversation... but equally no reason to feel cheap.
I am assuming you are all three single????? How well did your friend know this man on the night of her birthday? Had she shown any prior interest in him? Had he shown any interest in her before you left in the cab?
Is it possible that he spent all evening with you but when you left may have felt that he might not hear from you again, you might not be interested. Maybe he was edging his bets.......not saying that is a good thing to do but isn't that just the sort of thing that men do.
However he obviously preferred you to your friend, he chased you for a date not her, just maybe your friend is jealous. You say he "practically" put the phone down on you.......if he was just a tart he would have put the phone down without even trying to make a defence.
For me it would depend how much I liked him and how trustworthy my friend was.
@Lf <wonders what the 'favourite song in the world' was>
You didn't by any chance phone him while you were round at your friend's, did you QT?
As soon as you said 'he was the perfect gentleman' I thought 'aye, aye'.
I'm really not a fan of 'perfect gentlemen' who open doors and light candles and walk on the outside of the pavement (because you are so vulnerable on your lady legs you might tootle into the road?).
I don't mean this in a political Millie Tant* way but it was always instinctual to me that if a man was ramping up the 'treating me like a laydee' stuff he a) just didn't see me as an equal to get to know and have a laugh with and b) he wanted very much to get into my knickers by flattery and trickery.
My dh of 17 years is very blokey (and I'm actually quite girlie!), but never thought or needed to put me on some sort of weird pedestal.
Overall though, you have been naive not to see the obvious signs of seduction. You need to grow a thicker skin and lighten up a bit. But you are NOT cheap.
You have to be old enough to get this Viz reference
Proud, I have said it on here before many times and I totally agree with you
beware the charming man
They do my head in. They are nearly always sexist nobbers and/or twats that fuck you up whilst treating you like a princess. Sod that.
Well said, AF.
It is actually a red flag.
I read the other day (beware of charming people): what sort of person would go to such lengths to develop an act, and to portray a certain vision?
Answer: someone with a lot to hide, and someone who is terrified you will reject the them once you find them out. Real people let you get to know them in your own time.
Hi ladies - thanks for your advice. No he hadnt shown any interest in her before I left - she was busy snogging a succession of guys in the club (think she got to about 8 and no we are not 15 though it may sound like it) He'd pretty much spent the whole evening talking and dancing with me and trying to kiss me (although I wouldn't kiss him back as I didn't know him - ironic given what happened subsequently!)
I haven't known her long only about two weeks - but she gave so many details about what they did that I don't think she could be making it up.
If there was nothing wrong with his behaviour then why did he deny it so vehemently?
Any chance you could get a new friendship group ?
This one sounds a bit shit
I don't know anyone that acts like 1) her 2) him after the age of about 21
Maybe because he's a lying sack of shit?
And I wouldn't give anyone, let alone someone I've known for two weeks such details, I'd be wondering what her intent was for telling you all that, certainly not a gesture of friendship.
Just maybe, he denied it so vehemently because he is telling the truth?
maybe he is denying it so vehemently because he wished it hadn't happened, he made a mistake and wished he hadn't got "friendly" with the other woman because he liked you (men are often contrary and confused) maybe he was a bit drunk and she preyed on him because she was jealous that he liked you?
Or maybe he is denying it because he can, he can waste some time convincing you it never happened because he has nothing better to do! and likes telling lies and preying on women.
Anyway, did you want to see him again? if you don't chalk it up to experience, it was fun while it lasted, move on.
Why did she give you so many details? She's the one I'd be avoiding tbh. Two weeks does not a friend make.
Either give him the benefit of the doubt or chalk it up to experience, enjoy having been wooed and move on. There are plenty more fish in the sea.
Ps You are not cheap!!!
no but great minds think alike
If there was nothing wrong with his behaviour then why did he deny it so vehemently?
Maybe because he was telling the truth? It is possible.
At this point, both of them could have motives for lying. You said you were in a group, so ask some of the others what they saw happening that night. Preferably people who are not close friends of either of them.
To be honest, neither of them sound that great and I endorse what's been said about romantic and chivalrous charmers. But getting off with a bloke your new friend is clearly interested in is not a great recipe for friendship. Nor is lying about that in order to cause trouble, of course.
No thats the problem - I really really liked him. I suppose the other thing I should have mentioned was that I didn't realise until I got to his house was that he is a multi multi millionaire. I got a huge shock when I saw his house as he didn't give any indication of it during the evening or when we had lunch. Which made me like him even more.
Anyway apparently everyone else on the night out knew - and as my 'friend' was telling me what they got up to after I had left she kept going 'have you googled him yet - he has his own wiki page' etc etc.
To be honest if I hadn't liked him so much then I wouldn't be feeling so crap about what happened. And I genuinely believed he liked me - and usually I'm an ok judge of character
Just to clarify - it made me like him more that he hadnt gone on about it... Not because he was rich!
Are you sure your friend wasn't jealous and made up or exagerated what happened to put you off him? (It worked.) "saying she was stirring just because we had something potentially really good together" Maybe true?
Toffee that's what I want to think but I do get the impression she is telling the truth
Any Fucker - haha when I drove up it was a bit like the moment in pride and prejudice when Elizabeth sees pemberley for the first time!
A man who doesn't brag to get you into bed, who could so easily use his wealth to try and impress but doesn't, sounds fine to me.
A woman who snogs her way around a club, then stirs up mistrust because she is jealous of you isn't worth having as a friend. She wants all the attention on her and she sounds like a prima donna
What is the worst that could happen? can you not give him the benefit of the doubt
Bloody hell enjoy it!
Are you writing a Mills and Boon? It sounds like the plot of one. (evil "friend" "gorgeous multi millionaire", cheesy dancing in a club.
Not that I've ever read one..honest )
I feel like I've known you all my life' spoken on the first night is code for .'..nice jugs and I'm pretty sure we're dealing with the right number of holes here....right... enough of the chat...'
I agree with others...your new friend sounds like a bit of a bitch and like she rather enjoyed breaking the news that shed been there first. You can do without friends like that.
I'd say if you do feel a connection with a guy it's worth waiting to have sex esp if you do tend to give yourself a hard time afterwards.
But then if you're ok to have casual sex or the guy being a bit of a player then go for it. Theres no shame in having fun...just take care of yourself too.
Good guy will never hold against you the fact that you won't go to bed with him on first night. And good guy won't make you feel cheap if you do. But difficult to tell good ones apart from not so good ones that quickly.
Did you you tell this "friend" about your date before or after she told you what she got up to with him?
If she told you first, she is probably telling you the truth. If you told her first then
I told her first - but she had already told another friend that she kissed him the day before
I echo "beware the charming man"
I would be wary of the "feel like I've known you all my life" log fires/candles - sounds like a player.
Its good he didn't mention his riches, but if he really was being modest, he could have concealed them a bit more, met you somewhere neutral for dinner maybe....
Just read the bit about him being a millionaire...wow! I'm feeling a connection with him myself....seriously though...
Friend even more likely to be stirring then tbh....sad but true.
Oh and he did tell me to put him on speakerphone so he could talk to us both - but I was already back home by then
Lovingfreedom, I am loving your posts on this thread
Yes me too - they keep making me laugh out loud! Thank you for cheering me up and stop taking everything so seriously!!
Men (or certain
most men anyway) tend to take what's on offer. If your friend was going round snogging every other bloke in the club, it doesn't take much of a leap to see that she probably would have made the moves on this guy as well.
Now at that point, and forgive me if this isnt what happened, nothing had gone on between you - he'd made it clear he was interested, you say you'd got on well, but you'd resisted his attempts to kiss you and gone home. Quite possible, and assuming he's a decent-ish type, he may have thought along the lines that he liked you, but wasn't sure anything would come of it, hence no reason to pass up your friend if she made it clear she was interested. At that point he didn't know if he'd see you again. So I don't think he was necessarily wrong in doing what he did.
I also don't think there was any way he could then have mentioned it to you the next day. You would have thought he was a complete sleaze (admittedly he might be...) and wanted nothing to do with him. So again, not wrong in keeping quiet.
Where he did go wrong, ime, was denying that Friday happened. I don't like the sort of man who says people are lying to cause trouble. It's rarely true. I suspect he was pissed off at being caught out, and that showed in his reaction. Getting angry about it suggests annoyance at being found out. I expect he is, in view of his financial position, rather used to people dancing to his tune.
I'm not sure about him. It's the reaction rather than the action, iyswim.
As to the friend, did she know what was going on with you and him? If so, she's not much of a friend if she made a move immediately after you left (and assuming she would have known you were interested). I have to say also that my days of snogging several
10 men in one night in a club were in my early 20s, assuming you're not that age, I'm not sure I'd be pursuing that friendship much further.
Ultimately neither of them have covered themselves in glory. I think I would chalk it up to bad experience. You are not cheap, and don't let yourself think that way, whats that quote about no-one can make you feel bad about yourself without your consent? Or something like that.
Sorry OP cross posted earlier. This "friend" had already told another friend that she kissed him. So even if that was true (remember she knows he is a millionaire, she has googled him, knows he has a wiki page etc) it was presumably just a kiss. Sounds like she elaborated what happened a bit to put you off him so she can move in on him.
The fact he offered to go on speaker phone to talk to you both is surely a good sign? I think he may be telling the truth
even if he is a master seducer
Oh I'd feel very differently about this if it turns out he got up to something with your friend and then denied it afterwards. I really don't like this idea that men can't be expected to turn down an available woman.
The allegations made by the 'friend' are immaterial.
No commitment had been made by either of the interested parties on Friday night, Saturday night is where it started getting important - everything that has happened before that means nothing.
Op, you are sounding like you are 15 and upset because your bff, who you'd known for a whole 2 weeks, kissed a boy you liked.
And girl don't feel cheap, you had fun, you enjoyed it. If your 'friends' allegations hadn't come up, you'd still be walking on air and looking forward to the next session.
You have only known your friend 2 weeks.
As I have ironically just posted on another thread, trust has to be earned.
I wouldnt really call anyone a friend after 2 weeks.
She could so easily have made it up, or it be part truth, or anything else for that matter.
Dont feel cheap you are not.
This man paid you attention all night on the Friday, when you left your friend made a bee line for him, he probably turned her down for a shag, I mean seriously if he had been interested in her he would have either gone home with her or taken her home with him. He didn't.
You wasn't his girlfriend on the Friday you had not spent time with him other than in a social environment with other people.
I'd give him a chance and question why she went near him after he had been with you all night?
Friend? I think not, she fancied him he chose you simple.
Oh she was jealous by the way of the attention he gave you and wanted some for herself.
She isnt a friend after two weeks.
She kissed him is a long way short of doing everything which she told you in graphic detail bar shagging...
Get the man on speaker phone while you're both there. Or (gasp) even in the same room. It's the only way you'll know the truth.
A cautionary tale...I had my last one night stand about 16 years ago. Next night and with hangover from Hell I swore no more. I felt degraded and ashamed....but how wrong I was. That night my friend and I went out. She had a ONS with a guy on a stag do which she enjoyed tremendously and never saw again. I foolishly didn't shag my one. But 15 years later and after two kids, therapy and paying him silly money to gtf...here I am.. and you'll guess the rest from my name.
Sorry but please don't get the guy on speakerphone. OP is not even in a relationship with the guy. Ok two women who are friends on consecutive nights is unsubtle...but I don't really think he owes either of you anything. You will look like a fool if you start anything like that.
I suppose if he is a multi multi millionaire you could have made him work harder to get you into the sack. Is that why you feel cheap?
FFS what a non issue. Are you all 12?
You have nothing to feel 'cheap' about. There is nothing wrong with having sex with a consenting adult, because you want to do so.
It's a bit daft to make a fuss about him having snogged your friend, though. He doesn't owe you any kind of commitment and certainly didn't on the night when you had declined even a kiss: he probably thought that you weren't all that keen.
DO bear in mind that casual sex is actually good for women. It stops you getting hung up on knobbers and thinking you have to try and coax 'commitment' out of them just because you've had, or would like, a good bunkup with them.
I agree with Izzyizin's post - its a bit odd feeling cheap? You had consensual sex which you enjoyed? - you want to have sex have it and enjoy it, if you're only comfortable having sex within the context of an exclusive relationship, then make sure you don't have sex until you've had "the chat" and know you're in one And remember safe sex obviously
I don't really agree with this culture of women humiliating each other and getting in this big "shame" dance and not owning their choices? I mean, I sleep with guys, it can be very loving and close and enjoyable, BUT it's a bit bizarre to assume that I want them to be my "boyfriend" just because they're a good lover and chemistry is there.
I must admit I keep my dating life quite compartmentalised from female acquaintances precisely because there seems to be this depressing judgey pants mindset where we're all meant to sit round and go "oh, he's such a bastard for not calling, you must have REALLY wanted him to be your boyfriend" when I have just as much control over my dating/sex choices as the men I'm interacting with?
PS I spent one rather pleasant weekend - Saturday night with one chap, Sunday in the arms of another. I also had my period. I think I might take up gardening, I've had my sex allowance for my life
You used him just as much as he used you. And get better friends.
why would you mess up something that could be so perfect with a guy you like so much over something that some woman you barely know has said.
you shouldnt have made such a drama with the guy. Thats really the only thing that you did wrong here i think
I think you should text him and apologise. Your 'friend' doesn't sound very nice and he could be telling the truth. I would apologise and then see what happens. I wouldn't chase him though.
Your 'friend' is jealous and a shit stirrer.
I didn't want to apologise as I still don't think it was great behaviour from him. So text this instead
Hi. Have been thinking - whatever happened, at the end of the day I had a really lovely time on sat with you. Don't want things to be awkward as we're bound to bump into each other at some point in the future. So no hard feelings? x
Yes but you don't know do you? You don't know he behaved badly.
I think you've handled this all wrong, sorry but I do. Hope you hear back but that text is very final. I wouldn't even bother to reply to that if I were him.
I think you like him and are trying to play it cool, or why bother to text at all?
Whatever could have been it's well and truly messed up now, so you should just leave it alone.
I don't think texts are great for this sort of thing and it always makes me wonder why people who are willing to have sex are so unwilling to have a more direct conversation with that person. But to counter that, he might not want to talk to you and so I guess that preserves his right not to. How do you feel towards your friend now?
Great, send it to see if you can clear the air THEN leave it at that and don't chase
Just a thought, have you got enough other avenues open so you have other totty to think about? I can imagine you'd be quite keen on thinking about this chap, perhaps hoping this was work itself out. It's human nature, sometimes it's easier to pay attention to the bad/slightly uncomfortable/uncertain situations rather than the good ones.
I know I personally have fallen into the trap of obsessing over one situation when going out and opening up other avenues even if I didn't quite feel like it was more what I needed?
He just rung me. Said something along the lines of "why did you send that - it sounds like you don't want to see me again but I do want to see you again" So I said that I did. He said good and that he was driving so shouldn't be ringing or reading texts and went quite abruptly. So the ball is in his court.
I have a fair few other people I am casually seeing - it's just there was something about him.
Anyway we will see!!
Hope it works out for you then, QT. My DH was a ONS almost 30 years ago.
But he's not a multi-millionaire.
I'm thinking very quickly here so may be off the mark, but if he gets back to you it might be an idea NOT to get your friends/social circle involved in these early stages, it all sounds a bit complicated?
I think my dating life improved about 20000% when I realised I was sabotaging it by justifying/telling everything I did to my friends, who had their own range of issues/prejudices/insecurities so were clouding my own sense of "this feels right, continue" or "this doesn't, end it".
You're casually seeing a few other people?????? And our upset because he snogged someone else ????
...I reckon a few expensive dinners...keep him on til Christmas and you can always head to Cash4Gold on Boxing Day if it goes tits up...Good luck OP....enjoy yourself and have fun!
Sounds like you are both clear on this then, you will carry on seeing him. I wouldn't mention you were dating other people. Good luck with it.
Agree greencheddar. Unreal.
I personally think there is a difference between going for a drink with a few people and practically having sex with someone 12 hours before you do the same with someone else. But maybe that's just me.
But you don't know that! And if you're so hung up on it and believe it to be true, why are you bothering at all?
your big mistake was to bring up the fact he ( allegedly ) snogged your friend the previous night.
It was not really your business what he did the previous night. I'm not surprised he was pissed off.
How about we all grow up and get sensible about sex and consenting adults. IE everything SGB said.
Is "practically having sex with someone 12 hours before you do the same with someone else" a bad thing, then? Should one always exchange a promissory note when on a promise - 24 hours' mutual exclusivity? What if you change your mind and decide not to shag them after all, can they sue you for breach of contract?
I think you're making a massive meal out of this actually. I don't think you have any right to think less of him for it. You were nothing to each other when it happened and if it bothers you so much then don't bother with him again.
Don't be silly, Emma, he's got his own Wikipedia page
imo I think you need to get a more mature attitude towards sex (and friendships) before you engage in the mature act of having sex (and friends). Feeling cheap because you had consensual sex is a decidedly immature reaction.
I suspect your friend embellished what happened. I expect in the face of her having done so wikiguy went in to full on defensive mode when (in all probability) he probably provided the birthday girl with a birthday snog (yeuch!) as she seemed to consider was her due from the men at the party.
No biggie - until you made it one.
Sounds like you felt 'very special' because of his smooth words, the log fire, the candles, and all that paraphernalia. Then you hear this from your 'friend' - who isn't at friend at two weeks, believe me. And you think 'wah...I'm not that special at all'. You said you're seeing others casually, but you fell for this one and I think his charms really did make you feel like you two were sharing something more than a ONS. And maybe you were - only time will tell.
If you want a relationship with this guy, let take you out on a proper date next time. ie out of his house and away from his huge water bed or whatever multi-millionaires sleep on these days. Keep out of the hot tub too. OR if you just want casual with him, that's not a problem either, keep it at his house and just have fun.
And don't feel cheap. There's no need to. But if you can't do ONS without feeling cheap, take this one as a learning experience and wait a bit longer next time. When I was younger I had plenty of casual sex and it was great. For some reason as I got older it didn't work for me any longer.
If I were him I'd run a fucking mile from the pair of you.
I think he's trying to Apocalypto.
Lets hope he has a 'dungeon' for you, and a private helicopter. What a drama over a quick bang.
Your 'friend', who you've known for 2 weeks sounds a sort, as does the fella, as do you!
Send the rich man my way, I'll not give a shit who he snogs/fucks as long as I get me some shoes.
OldLady The guy in the OP isn't a multi-millionaire either, he is a multi multi millionaire!
"Said something along the lines of "why did you send that - it sounds like you don't want to see me again but I do want to see you again"
From OPs last post.
Sounds like he might like to see OP again.
Some of the posts above are perfect examples of how women make other women feel like shit.
OP shouldn't feel cheap. Why would anyone have any interest in trying to make someone else feel badly about themselves. However by calling someone immature because they have more sensitivity or because they have been brought up to think ONS make women cheap is ignoring the fact that it is the patriarchal power relations and the dominant view within society that makes women both available to men and then guilty for their own behaviour.
Sometimes I really wonder, is it men who make women feel cheap whilst still expecting women to "put out" or is sometimes women who have the greater interest in making other women feel bad.
It is a perfect example of how women carry out the work of the patriarchy and can be likened to FGM where it is the older women who perpetuate and carry out the practice.
Don't feel cheap, but also stop judging the arse off the poor bloke. He owes you nothing. And after two weeks, no one is your friend. If you're 'seeing' other people, you cannot then start chucking a hissy because a bloke you bunked up once with snogged someone else before you bunked up with him. Just wait and see what happens, and don't throw yourself emotionally in to anything so early on. You'll only end up hurt and looking a bit scary, iyswim. If you want to see the bloke again, see him. But don't expect exclusivity or commitment unless you've expressly discussed it.
Mini, it is immature to throw a strop when a man you've only just met snogs someone else! It's a glancing blow to the ego, yes - the immature part is letting it bother you. Fortunately, OP has now realised this and acted more sensibly.
I may have missed a few posts but have not seen anyone perpetuating misogyny here, except OP herself at the beginning.
The four posts above my last ^ are utter piss takes.
So this bloke makes eyes at the OP on a Friday, bonks her on the Saturday and next he's getting accusations and shit off her, based on the word of the "friend" of two weeks' standing (who's actually a nasty piece of work) and despite the fact that she's got a few irons in the fire herself.
He must be wondering what he has to do to filter these arsewipes out of his life.
the part of this whole story that has me gobsmacked the most is that you considered someone you'd known for just 2 weeks to be a 100% trustworthy friend
@ mini the minx
or is sometimes women who have the greater interest in making other women feel bad.
the latter. in the same way that female display is aimed at other women. women don't have expensive clothes, accessories, and hair to impress men, who never even notice these things. they do it to cow other women into retreating and leaving the field clear for themselves.
the fashion industry that supposedly oppresses women with impossible-to-attain body images is run largely by women: female fashion magazine editors, female fashion designers and gay male designers.
I don't think anyone on here is saying she is cheap are they ? I'm a big fan of the odd one night stand myself.
Did you miss the part where she said she is "seeing a fair few other people"? Yet feels entitled to have a tantrum because he snogged her mate -- if he even did--.
Not cheap, not at all, I am not even sure I would use the word immature, maybe "unrealistic" is a bit better, I actually think ringing him up to confront him about it is ridiculous though, so I will say so, seeing as the OP sought our opinions.
Cheap? Nah. The OP's ventured into the realm of the positively tacky where she's giving the Duchess of Pork a run for her money in the 'vulgar, vulgar, vulgar' stakes
Outside of an episode of Shameless, who rings a guy they've readily dropped their drawers for to berate him for snogging an ow 24 hours before they did the deed?
And who makes such a call while they're in the presence of the ow who claimed to have done everything with the guy except remove their drawers?
Tune in for the next episode: 'How I caught a sti/baybee/cold when I took my knickers off in front of his log fire'
You've provided another definition to the term 'power dressing' Apocalypto and those fashion editors/designers sure are powerful
Of course he was looking forward to seeing the OP again, Mini.
Why would he pass up the opportunity of her
providing a free escort service driving herself to his home and putting out again?
FGM is female genital mutilation.
Its a funny thing that, when a women of independent means, pays her way, drives herself and drops her knickers.....she is a free women, when the same women behaves in the same way but the man has greater wealth, she is providing an escort service. and I say that as a Marxist who would redistribute his wealth
I am finding it difficult to believe that a multi multi
multi, ad infinitum millionaire would be willing to buy into this kind of nonsense anyway. Surely can't be THAT difficult to meet eligible young ladies?
Wait! It's not Mick from TOWIE is it OP?!!!
Oh OK, thanks. Bit strong a remark in the context of this thread .
Have you heard any more OP?
It's not a question of financial wealth, Mini.
It's about value and the OP doesn't appear to place much value on herself - if she did, she wouldn't be indulging in a pity fest because she put out for him on the first date or be conflicted by what he got up to before - or after she put out for him, iyswim.
A bit of honesty wouldn't go amiss... the OP was impressed with his
stately pile log fire and let the music go to her fanjo head. It's either the end or beginning of her liaison with Mr Loaded but for sure he didn't get to be a self-made millionaire by giving his dosh away and, in common with less endowed wealthy males, he's unlikey to say no to it on a plate freebies.
FWIW his seduction technique is a tad hackneyed and, if the OP continues to make house calls, I suspect dinner will shrink to a couple of appetisers with a glass of sherry if she's lucky and the log fire will stay unlit.
Izzy: Why are you saying such disgusting things about a woman who had enjoyable consensual sex? Refusing to have sex despite the fact that you are horny and attracted to the other person is not 'placing a higher value on yourself'. it's demonstrating that you think your cunt is gold-plated and a man has to earn access to you. Teaching women to hold out for 'commitment' is teaching them that sex is currency, not fun.
Do please read what the OP has to say SG.
I appreciate that engaging in full sexual relations on short acquaintance means litte more to you than a handshake, but the OP does not appear to be cut from the same cloth as your good self.
Although the OP had consensual sex with a guy she'd met 24 hours previously, it seems she rapidly found cause not to enjoy the experience and the fact she professes herself to 'feel so cheap and used' would seem to me to be attributable as much to her lack of self-esteem as to the fact that he allegedly went some way to getting it on with the OP's 'friend'.
Solid - Do you really believe that? I hope so because that is what I used to practice when I was young free and single and I have never met anyone in RL who thought the same way. A friend of mine used to meet a guy, have sex with him and then would spend the next three days (at least) bending my ear about why he hadn't asked for her number, or why he hadn't phoned her, or why he had slunk out whilst she was asleep. I was always bloody relieved to get rid of them the next morning.
Women are bombared with the message that they should enjoy no strings but equally so they are made to feel bad if they do. Izzy what you have said at 2:40:59, seems to prove the point that women are not just judged by those men they sleep with and those they don't but other women too.
Maybe I've projected my sentiments onto SG, Exit, as it's certainly how I used to regard sex when I was younger
I enjoy a longer burn time I'm somewhat more discriminating but I certainly woudn't be beating myself up if events moved at a rapid pace, shall we say, nor would I be engaging in endless speculation as to whether he'd ring or not or whether to ring him or not etc etc ad infinitum.
Love all the automatic responses about what a lying piece of shit he is becasue of course female friend is telling the truth - and yet he could actually be telling the truth, point is we dont know! I do think friend - of only 2 weeks no less, sounds like she could have made it up as shes jealous.
Crikey, I don't even think about sex anymore................
Gosh - um I'm not even sure how to respond. Yes I did get upset, maybe I did create too much of a drama about it but I did find the idea of being sloppy seconds (her words not mine) a bit upsetting.
I rung him because he told me to put the girl on the phone but I had already left her house.
Anyway I suggested we have a chat tonight and he instead suggested that I go round to his for dinner. So we will see what happens.
And for the record I haven't been on a date / drinks with anyone else since I met him.
So we will see what happens Some of us won't be resorting to crystal balls to see what happens when you go round to his for another 'dinner'
Your friend sounds toxic
She's the classic example of someone who is bringing their own negativity/competitiveness/prejudices into YOUR affairs.
Try and go by YOUR own feelings rather than "what will so and so say" You don't ever need to "make a point" about what you're doing, not to Mumsnet or to your social circles or whoever, as long as you're comfortable. He sleeps with you and doesn't call you again? You're still cool, nothing wrong with having had two nights with a man you fancied
Also bear in mind if you want to go further relationship wise, you're scoping HIM out just as much as he is scoping you out? Enjoy the intimacy but don't get obsessed by the idea of "getting" him
Have fun tonight, it's freezing here so I hope you get the log fire
But you don't feel 'cheap' because you slept with him on a first date. You feel cheap because you slept with him after he'd put out with your mate (who was snogging every other guy there)- although he didn't sleep with her. Why do you feel cheap then? especially as you have other boyfriends?
And if you are 'sloppy seconds' what does that make her?
OP, don't go to his
mansion house, ask him to meet you out, you are worth dating.
Sorry SGB, some women like to feel datable as well as s--gable. I do nowadays, maybe I didn't think about it much when I was younger.
Who gives a fuck what he did the night before your encounter , he's minted !!
Joking aside, give him the benefit of the doubt as you have nothing to lose
this is interesting, I'd have said that technically, it would only be sloppy seconds for the second shag of you, wouldn't it?
I mean the phrase surely arises from the mess left by the first playa for the second. if the playas are the females then how much mess could there be?
So to be honest he didn't make you feel cheap at all. Your new friend who kindly referred to you as sloppy seconds when she hadn't even shagged him did...
She sounds like she was jealous that he was showing you attention all night, so moved in on him when you'd left.
I used to know a girl like that. She was a massive attention seeker, constantly needed a man's approval, and would flirt with any man she knew you liked. Even slept with a guy a few days after I did, knowing full well I'd been with him.
This woman doesn't sound much like a real friend to you tbh, and I wouldn't trust a word she says.
You can be shaggable and datable, for the record. You don't have to have Elizabeth Bennet as a moral role model.
It's all back to this utter shite about making men "earn it" or "good girls wait". No wonder so many women have so many hang ups. If you want to bang after 10 minutes, good. If you would rather wait till you know the person a bit better, lovely. If you worry about what other people might think, then fuck off.
Slumber - agree that the 'friend' was miffed that this guy wasnot all over her, somade it her business to 'get' him.
Gay40 - so you don't agree with the assumption that once the guy has had his leg over, he has no more need of the girl? That is the 'earn' it pyschology - that if she gives it all away, straight away, what else is there?
I don;t go along with that BTW...
My husband has always maintained that if a girl is datable, he is not going to be put off by the fact she put out on the first date!
The woman might be put off that he put out on the first date!
She called you sloppy seconds??
That girl is no friend, friend.
FGS, there's a tremendous amount of "When you've got the milk, why buy the cow?" lurking on this thread! I can't believe people still come out with this crap! It's like the Sixties never happened ... FIFTY years ago.
I agree with SGB and Gay40.
I wouldn't want to date a man who judged a woman based on whether she had sex on a first date.
Who made these 'rules'? They are IMHO, rubbish.
Loving your work mini
Good luck OP.
Don't give more than you're willing to lose and take people as you find them, not as they tell you they are is a fairly good rule of thumb.
'sisters' might have moved on leaps and bounds since the 50's but sadly not all our 'brothers' have caught up yet. They might one day or so it seems, perhaps it's just that they didn't like the girls anyway so in that case why shag her?
My all time record is having sex with five men in the space of one night. It was fun.
OP I do actually think that your 'friend' sounds like the cause of a lot of your current troubles. Some people get off, not by having sex but by doing sex-related things that are going to cause the maximum chaos, confusion and upset to other people.
Five men in one night? Faints. Was it a gang bang i.e they all watched or was it private?
Is there somewhere to start a casual sex etiquette/attitudes thread etc? I'm really enjoying reading all the perspectives here - IRL I must confess I'm sometimes a bit scared to be too articulate about what I actually think?
Is there somewhere to start a casual sex etiquette/attitudes thread etc?
That would be this board! Look forward to seeing your work here
Tressy: Not a gang bang, it was separate encounters but it all happened in a swingers' club in Holland. Rather a long time ago now...<sighs>.
I would like it put on record that my fanjo is gold plated! (and it has diamonds inside it too)
SGB, thanks for answering I can see how it could happen like that.
I don't have the inclination for casual nowadays but had quite a lot of it in the past, some I regretted and some I really didn't. Prefer seeing someone regularly now even if it's not serious, until something special comes along. If it ever does!
SGB I know this might seem like a silly or naive question, but at a swingers club, do you have people that just watch?
Gosh SGB - My record was two in a day.
Gay40: Yes. No one is under any obligation to have any kind of sex if they don't want to do so. Watchers are simply requested not to crowd people who are actualy having sex and not to give an impolite running commentary, for instance.
It's not that common but I have met monogamous couples who occasionally like to go to a swingers' club - they get turned on by the atmosphere and by watching other people, and then they go home and shag each other legless in private.
Two adults enjoying one another's company, nothing shameful in that, don't make it into something it's not. There is absolutely nothing wrong with two adults having sex when they don't know each other very well, it's 2012 and we have the same needs as men, please don't feel bad.
Not that I fancy a swinger's club really (too much cock) but I did wonder.
Gosh SGB - My record was two in a day.
That puts me in second place
'Twas a very long time ago. Can't be bothered with any of it these days!
<wonders if should worry> <decides to watch Corrie instead>
Erm - I was 2, SGB was 5 - so come on you two, how many?
My max: 3. So Tressy might be second
Three separate penetrative encounters in one day, before going home to DP........... well, it was Christmas.
Swingers club records; well, it was once two with me, then later that same night it was another two with me, with a total of 7 sexual partners in one night.
Was I proud? Actually, damn right I was.
My friend, who I attended with, had three at once.... I was in awe of her stamina.
Come on MN, flame me if you need, ask questions if you want....
I imagine swingers clubs as very much reducing people to bodies, iyswim, so would be a million miles from my idea of sexy. I'm willing to be told I'm wrong, though?
What a bunch of "baduns" you are I really couldn't be bothered, I would rather have nice glass of red or climb a mountain. I am sooooo boring.
cronullansw did your DP know?
Garlicbaguette...not everyone needs sex combined with love and emotions. Ultimately it is a physical need - nice if you have feelings for the person, nice if you don't particularly.
Swinging isn't my thing but neither is knitting. I don't have any judgements on people who do either (or both).
I couldn't do swinging, I don't find many men sexually attractive, unless I was out of it on alcohol. This has happened in the past come to think of it and given me the creeps the next day. Now that was sex without feelings. Long time ago now and I would hate to feel like that again.
Or equally, liked the guy and didn't get the phone call!
I suppose an honest swinging thing would take all the out of the equation. I can understand that.
Hell, I wasn't judging! I don't need love but do want some personal connection. I've had enough of being blatantly objectified in everyday life; never wanted it when I've got me bits out! I was curious as to whether swinging is as impersonal as I imagine it. Where's SGB when you need her?
I find the idea of sex with a stupid person more objectionable than swinging.
Mini - I was single at the time, no DP to worry about or cheat upon. And I didn't DP on that occasion, although my friend did
My DP is completely against the idea of sharing me, so until the next life, it's a memory only.
I actually felt very empowered and liberated after, I used them for my fun.
as for people watching, (the original question), yes, many people do attend purely to soak in the atmosphere, watch others, and stay faithful to their partners.
Swinging has the image of middle aged suburban people going at it. Is that the case?
It would be nice to watch attractive bodies ...
Gay, how do you gauge if the swingers are stupid or not? Or was that a dig?
I've enjoyed some sex with stupid people. I only need them to be smart enough to figure out what goes where.
Not a dig at all. I'm not reallly into swinging but I've got no objections if others are - I can't see the problem with consenting adults doing what they want together. It's just not my thing.
Stupidity is just an instant turn-off so I couldn't ever have sex with someone I found so unappealing. That was all.
I always require possible partners to hand over proof of mensa membership first I don't think I would find someone dull to be appealing. I'm not certain you get much conversation going to a swingers party.....I might be wrong, never been to one. I wonder how OP got on????
I'm still here - just fascinated by the other conversation going on.
Um so Friday night was lovely in that he is amazing in bed, we get on very well and the conversation flowed. What isn't so good is that he is clearly utterly commitment phobic (is 50 and never even lived with anyone!) and obviously lives this mad hedonistic lifestyle (according to his friend he shipped a coach load of models into his last pool party in the summer!)
So I can't imagine he is interested in me for anything other than a bit of weekend sex - I have to decide if I want to just treat it as a bit of fun or if I'm in danger of wanting more in which case I should run for the hills!
There isn't actually anything wrong with being middle-aged and living in the suburbs. Sex is not only for the young, fashionable and beautiful.
I spent four years with a wealthy commitment phobe. I wouldn't have changed it for the world, four years of great fun and lots of holidays. I was only in my early twenties though and in the final analysis he wanted to commit when I decided to bolt. Depends if you want commitment? he might be fun for a while, just keep your options open and learn to not always be available, don't beg for the credit card and keep it fun. He might be used to women who cling, who are desperate and women who try to take him for a ride financially so if you don't do those things, who knows, at 50 he might come round to the idea of commitment
So it is true about swinging then, solidgold. I never said there was anything wrong BTW.
you shagged Hugh Heffner?
He coached in a load of models? Run for the hills.
What? He has to hire women to decorate his pool party?
I fear that makes him a tragic misogynist with insufficient friends. If I were you I'd decide how many times I wanted to be 'spoiled' - 3? 10? - and then knock it on the head.
I've no qualms about suggesting you use him, within reason, as you've just identified him as a user. He buys people.
But I would say be careful about overdoing it, or you WILL end up feeling cheap even if you're expensive, iyswim! Better to ditch him soonish, then keep him in your little black book for possible booty call later on.
He'll invite you to his pool party next summer, don't you worry!
To be fair, if I had the money (and the space) I'd ship in a coach load of models every weekend. I like the place to look nice.
And why are people talking about commitment after two fucks and a coffee? FFS
OP seems to infer that she would like some sort of commitment be it with this man or some other. (last post)
I don't think I would want to commit to a man who thought women were commodities to be "bought" in to pool parties.
Hope you don't get hurt OP. Maybe some women can shag without getting emotionally involved, i don't know. I know i've tried to without success in the past.
I would definitely put him firmly in fwb material, not boyfriend material. Let him spoil you etc, on your terms and continue seeing other male friends. Keep looking for someone nicer. You are worth more.
Yes I'm thinking run for the hills before I get emotionally attached!
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