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I need help (and you'll probably flame me)

(318 Posts)
MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:13:02

I met DH when he was married and I was the OW, I'm not going to talk about my guilt etc but believe me it is ever present.
We have been together (not in an affair) for seven years and married for three. He has older children from his previous marriage, the youngest is 18 and I'm 31.

He absolutely does not trust me, last night a friend called me and DH sulked all night and is still sulking. Another friend who's DH has just DIED, texted me at midnight and I got a hard time for that as well.

Will he ever trust me? Is it my fault for being the OW? Is it because he knows how easy it was for us to get together? It's such a depressing way to live. I don't even contemplate doing things like going for works Xmas do because I know that even asking him if I can go will make him accuse me of something and I will get loads of texts asking me where I am and what I'm doing.

The only thing I've ever done to make him think this is I had emails on my account which were rude/flirty from before we met, I had forgotten about them & he logged on and found them.

McBuckers Tue 20-Nov-12 13:15:19

I suppose it must be difficult when a relationship is based on lies and deceit.

Popumpkin Tue 20-Nov-12 13:16:32

It does seem to be that people who have cheated in the past (or are cheating now) trust their partners the least.

All you can do in reality is talk to him about it & say either he needs to trust you or leave. Is there any chance he is messing around & therefore assumes you must be too?

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 13:17:18

He sounds controlling. Is he?

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 13:17:51

The thing is - he's a cheat - so he will judging you by his standards.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:18:26

He is the "perfect husband" cooks, cleans etc. I'm confident he's not cheating. Yes he is controlling I think.

ShamyFarrahCooper Tue 20-Nov-12 13:19:22

Wait a minute. HE was the one doing the cheating here. Guilty conscience on his side maybe?

Why are you asking him if you can go out? You're an adult you don't need his permission.

I'm not absolving you for your part in a marriage breakdown at all, but why are you the only one suffering?

JustFabulous Tue 20-Nov-12 13:19:29

Unless you have given him any reason to not trust you in relation to your realtionship, then he is choosing to not trust you and accuse you. Tell him to pack it in or you might have to rethink your relationship. Of course, he could be fucking around and projecting.

izzyishavingababyAGAIN Tue 20-Nov-12 13:20:10

He is punishing you for his own guilt - tell him to sort himself out or you will split.

You can't live a life where you aren't allowed to do anything.

MooncupGoddess Tue 20-Nov-12 13:20:11

OK, so you started your affair when you were 24, and he was much older - how much older is he? And you were single and he was married with teenage children? In that situation the fault lies much more with him than you (though obviously sleeping with married men is not a great way to behave).

To be honest from what you say the problem is not that you have behaved badly, but that he is a twat.

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 13:22:41

Then the problem is that he is controlling, and not that your relationship was born of an affair.

Has he always been like this? Was he controlling to his ex wife in the same way do you think?

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:25:19

I don't know, I think from what I can tell she was happy to be married & have children and didn't want to do things on her own like I do.

EuroShopperEnergyDrink Tue 20-Nov-12 13:26:47

I don't want to flame you, but what do you expect?

You're with a man who cheated on his wife and children, who betrayed them and lied to them and moved on to greener pastures. He's a fucking lowlife- and this is normal behaviour to him- you are always going to be judged according to these standards.

In fact, I wouldn't be so assured that he's not cheating. Guilt manifests in various ways. I know my XP accused me of texting and emailing and meeting up with random men because he was doing exactly that himself (but with ladies obviously blush)

I know you know all this already, and it's not helpful at all- but you're still young- you can start again if needed. Don't put up with any of his shitty behaviour just because you feel like he's 'given up' everything for you, and out of guilt for what you both did.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 13:27:08

Its not YOUR fault you were the ow. Its both of your faults.

if he doesn't trust you now he never will. Why do you trust him?

This is the problem with this sort of relationships. The fact that he was already married meant jack shit to you or him, so why would it now.

he is being a twat to treat you like this. He is a cheat as well.

Why are you still with him?

are you wondering if all the things he told you about his first wife were TRUE?

quietlysuggests Tue 20-Nov-12 13:29:07

Is he much older than you? At a slippers and pipe stage versus your prime of life age?
And do you have children together?
Sorry, no advice for you so far, but maybe if we understood a bit more?
In his mind did you actively chase or seduce him? Does he have the same version of events as you, as in when you got together first?

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:31:33

His version is slightly different. I have never really pushed him for information on his ex for a number of reasons.

He is quite a bit older.

I know we're both low lives and it's probably all I deserve.

mildredm Tue 20-Nov-12 13:31:45

Do you want to stay married to him?
If so, do you want to have a relationship where he trusts you?

If so you need to talk this through with him and have relationship counselling if necessary.

If you stay with him and nothing changes do you want to live like this for the rest of your life?

I personally think how you got together is irrelevant. You need to focus on your relationship now and whether you can get it into a state you are happy with.

akaemmafrost Tue 20-Nov-12 13:34:07

However it started he sounds like a knob. I suppose it depends if he is like this about other things too. Is he?

Thing is horrible men OFTEN use the past to justify bad treatment and quite often will make shit up in order to do so. Unfortunately this one feels he has a cast iron excuse for being a dick, given how you got together. Please do not think I am judging you because I am not, you don't deserve to be punished forever or indeed to be treated badly by anyone on the strength of it. I suspect there's more to this.

mildredm Tue 20-Nov-12 13:34:15

No it is not all you deserve. You deserve, like everyone, to have a relationship where you can flourish as a person and live the life you want to live.

You made a mistake in the past, you are sorry for it. Let it go. Look forward.

InNeedOfBrandy Tue 20-Nov-12 13:35:18

You don't deserve to be flamed, you probably shouldn't of posted on MN about it with all the hysterics of evil OW.

I think he's a knob tbh and nothing to do with how you got together. I think you should sit him down explain that he either trusts you or he doesn't love you because you can not have a relationship without trust. Say it's up to him whether to stay and trust you or jog on.

MooncupGoddess Tue 20-Nov-12 13:35:51

No, you're not a low life. You behaved badly when you were young and naive... that doesn't mean you have to live the rest of your life with someone you're not happy with. Do you have children together?

PeppermintPasty Tue 20-Nov-12 13:37:10

Tell him it's counselling to sort out his issues or the High Road.

HullyEastergully Tue 20-Nov-12 13:38:11

Forget all the rest of it how you got together who did what etc...

Do you want to live with someone who doesn't trust you and makes you feel bad?

That is the only question that matters.

helpyourself Tue 20-Nov-12 13:38:52

It all sounds so unhealthy. If you're low lives- he's lower than you!
He's projecting massively. It's not a great way to start a relationship, but the sin was more his than yours. Can you encourage him to seek closure over what he did?

Charbon Tue 20-Nov-12 13:43:23

That's a very one-dimensional view of his ex wife isn't it? I don't know about you, but I honestly don't know any women who are 'happy to be married and have children' and need nothing else in life. However if that's the story you've both settled on and it's true that she didn't want anything else from life, how come he wants you to be the same? After all, a woman who had no interests beyond her marriage and children didn't make him happy last time, did she?

Of course the likely truth here is that his wife was none of those things. It's more likely in fact that he suppressed any attempt at a life outside of her role as a wife and mother and then once he'd isolated her, left her for a younger woman. Or equally likely (but this might be me being hopeful) that she told him where to get off and he punished her for not staying in line, by having an affair and leaving her.

The common denominator in this is one controlling man. Neither you nor his wife deserved to have their lives controlled and manipulated in this way. At 24 you might not have realised this but at 31 I hope you do and that you can pull the rug out from under his feet before he treats you like he treated his wife.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:45:11

I do want to fix it, he's had a vasectomy so no kids or prospect of. I don't think he will agree to counselling.

How do I do it? I want to say either we sort this and we put the past behind us or we split but I'm scared to say it to him.

EscapeInTheCity Tue 20-Nov-12 13:45:49

hold on OP.

I am very surprised by the words you are using to describe yourself. I am not going to say that what you did was right but the one thing that separates 'good people' from 'bad people' is that the first ones learn from their mistakes (because let's be blunt, we ALL make mistakes).

from your posts, I would say that you have learnt from your mistakes.

But in no way, does it mean that:
- it's now OK for your DH to behave in this way and be very controlling
- you shuld just accept it because you are such a bad person.

Has your DH been telling you things like this? Has he inferred that, as you were the OW before, then you are likely to be an OW again?

BalloonSlayer Tue 20-Nov-12 13:46:20

Perhaps his ex told him the karma line - what goes around comes around and he is worried his destiny is to be cheated on like he cheated on his ex.

Especially as he is quite a bit older. Maybe someone has said "Blimey, what's she doing with him?" and he overheard. Or again, the ex would probably have said (I know I would) "She won't want you in a few years, when she's 31, you'll be ...." and now he's worrying he is at that point.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:48:08

I don't think he has ever made me think that but he does say I find it easy to lie and that I shouldn't do things when other men are around like sunbathe or sit in the staff room where there might be banter which is rude.

ISayHolmes Tue 20-Nov-12 13:49:27

"I know we're both low lives and it's probably all I deserve."

Ah bollocks to that, life's too short for self-flagellating and condemning yourself to misery. Don't do it. You've made some horrible decisions that you should be ashamed of BUT that doesn't mean you should martyr yourself to someone that's making you miserable. You get one life after all, and you'd be better off if you split. You're in your thirties, if you're lucky you'll be able to have another fifty years on this earth (or more) that won't be with this person.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:49:39

My brother mentioned that a friend of his said I was fit and I knew IMMEDIATELY that the comment would cause friction and sure enough he sulked for two days before bringing it up with me. Totally out of my control but still affecting my life.

Dryjuice25 Tue 20-Nov-12 13:50:45

He sounds like a prat, it's self projection.....

Go ahead and cheat if you are already serving the crime. Accuse him vehemently of cheating every time he goes out the door. Be hysterical about it, cry, shake and shiver uncontrollably like a fine actress. Think Jean Slater whilst you're at it. Scare the hell out of him . Be difficult and remind him he's cheated before and after all female instinct is barely wrong! Be difficult. Tell him he is fucking projecting!(please don't take advice from me today!)

By the way cleaning does not make a perfect husband , he is doing it because it's the natural thing to do post slavery, unless if he owns one, which I doubt. He is not what you thought he was and I hope ex wife got to see this and is happier now.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 13:51:44

He is shitting himself that you will screw him over (emotionally) like he screwed his ex over.

I agree with the poster that said it should be a case or counselling or door.

At least you are realising something is very wrong now and not in another 10 years.

How do feel about not having kids? Does he think that may make you cheat on him as he can't have children with you?

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 13:53:13

why does he say you find it easy to lie?

Proudnscary Tue 20-Nov-12 13:53:27

You may well deserve to be thought of/treated like shit by his wronged ex wife, let's be honest.

But by him?! The guy who left his wife for you, because he decided the grass was greener elsewhere?! Who betrayed his wife for you. Where the fuck does he get off judging and suspecting you like this?!

I'm afraid I agree that this is indicative of someone who doesn't trust himself. It's very unlikely he only cheated with you when he was in his first marriage.

And that the wider issue is he is controlling - that's no way to live, being afraid to talk to other men for fear of reprisals.

Overall I also agree that, despite behaving badly in the past, no-one deserves a life of punishment and misery. You mustn't think 'I deserve this, what did I expect?'. You don't deserve it.

Talk to him - tell him you are at breaking point.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:53:58

He's never said anything about children ever. Lately he's worse than ever, if I ask him what time he'll be home he wants to know why I want to know!! FFS.
I keep trying to talk to my mum about it but she just won't listen to me.

Charbon Tue 20-Nov-12 13:54:10

Put all the past issues to one side and ask yourself what you are getting from this relationship now and what you will get from it in the future.

From what you've posted, you're in a relationship where your behaviour and movements are controlled, where there is no trust and with a partner who will never be able to give you children if you decide you want them. You've also said you're 'scared' of being honest with him.

Sometimes essentially good people who end up in relationships like this stick with them as a form of self-punishment. Is there any of that going on with you?

Please don't even consider going to couples counselling with a controlling man. Go for some therapy on your own.

Proudnscary Tue 20-Nov-12 13:54:50

Oh and don't minimise his controlling, nasty, manipulative behaviour by calling it 'sulking' please.

LaQueen Tue 20-Nov-12 13:55:02

Sorry, no sympathy from me.

Your relationship started out based on lies and deceit and secrecy, no doubt- with neither of you showing any integrity or honour.

And, now it sounds like neither of you are very trusting of each other...funny that hmm

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:55:35

I think it all stems from the emails he found.

Charbon Tue 20-Nov-12 13:56:41

No it doesn't stem from the e mails he has found. His behaviour towards his wife was your first indicator of the man you were involved with.

Furoshika Tue 20-Nov-12 13:57:27

He's seeing someone else, right?
Is that a possibility? Controlling you because he can't control himself?

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 13:57:30

Christ he sounds an arse.

Do you really want to spend your life with someone who is so controlling, judges you by his own cheating, lying standards, and who can't give you kids?

It's a waste of your time mate. He means to suck the life out of you and hoard it jealously for himself.

purplecrayon Tue 20-Nov-12 13:58:18

You need it leave IMO. What is in this relationship for you? Am I right in thinking you have no children of your own to consider? Because if so, what's stopping you leaving? He sounds jealous and insecure and I'd hazard a guess at pretty arrogant too.

I understand that 7 years ago, you were the ow. You have admitted that was shitty but I think you need to cut yourself some slack now. You were little more than a young girl and he was a man with a wife and family who had a lot more life experience. You truly believe and admit to your mistake - so now is the time to put it behind you. You deserve a better life now and since there is nothing in this relationship for you anyway, I believe you should leave.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 13:59:35

I've been reading around it and just now he's being a Hoover. As in, really loving and caring and trying extra hard. I'm pleased that I have started to recognised the behaviour.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 13:59:48

come on OP. You want help stop drip feeding.

Are you saying he calls you a liar because of some emails? What emails?

You will get flamed it you are only telling half a story.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 13:59:53

I will say to you what I would say to any woman trapped in a controlling relationship with an inadequate man (no matter what the origins of it)

Leave him. It's not going to get any better.

DontmindifIdo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:00:36

Thing is, he treated his first wife badly (by cheating) this you know - anything else he's told you about how he was in the marriage or what she's said to you since (knowing you're the OW) can't be trusted. You know he treated her with no respect and didn't care about her feelings, or else he would not have slept with you, whatever he said to you at the time (or to himself)

That he is treating his second wife badly (possibly in a different way) is to be expected. He doesn't treat woman in his life well.

I don't want to do the usual "leave the bastard" but you have no children, he is controlling and treats you badly and you know he has no moral issues with shagging about. I'd leave at least for a little bit and decide what you want.

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 14:01:21

She already explained about the emails. Try reading things properly before you get arsey.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 14:01:40

I did say he logged on to my emails when we first got together and read some flirty emails I had sent from before we got together. Sorry.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 14:02:31

OP, are you sticking with him because you are grateful to him in some weird way (that he threw his family under a bus for you). And that it has to work because of the magnitude of your guilt in being complicit in that ?

Let it go. Let it all go. Look at where you are now. Is this the sort of relationship you imagined for yourself, and how you want to live ?

ENormaSnob Tue 20-Nov-12 14:02:32

What laqueen said.

Fortyshadesofgreen Tue 20-Nov-12 14:04:12

There is a possiblity that the emails are a trigger OP. But that depends on the circumstances of the emails etc. Might make a little more sense if the mails were between you and someone you still see or work with / know for example ?

Difficult to tell but without more info then its not really possible to discard them or say they are the trigger / or part of his reaction.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 14:04:12

But that's from before you met.

Why does he say you find it easy to lie? Because you flirted with someone before you got together.

I apologise, I assumed you meant further emails. Since you were single when those emails were written while he was snagging you while married. Its so ridiculous.

How do you feel about not having kids?

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 14:05:09

I think it's a classic case of projection. He says she find it easy to lie, because he did.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 14:05:34

shagging not snagging. smile

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 14:05:57

I assume that OP has worked through the idea of not having kids when she had an affair with, and then married this man. OP, would that be correct ?

Furoshika Tue 20-Nov-12 14:06:16

Well, at least at 31, if you do leave him, you have a lot of good time ahead to find someone who doesn't treat people badly.
All the best. (Really.)

DontmindifIdo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:07:51

(norah - she's not drip feeding, she mentions the e-mails at the bottom of the OP)

Also, IME - woman who have been with a man who has made "a great sacrifice" to be wtih them by leaving another family, usually end up feeling the have to stay with them/get married earlier than they might otherwise do, because they feel like he's done so much for them they 'owe' their DP. And usually they have also had to defend their relationship from friends/family who don't approve so feel backed into a corner/little support from outside the relationship.

Often, I've seen this and thought I bet if they had met when they were both single, it wouldn't have lasted this long, as you wouldn't feel you had to put up with being treated badly due to guilt.

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 14:08:39

I think the idea of not having kids is easier to make peace with when you're a youngster.
When you get older, you start wanting them. Imho.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 14:09:28

no always af. I know several women who have said at 24 they are never having kids. But the. Have changed their minds.

One left her marriage as her husband was still of the mind that he didn't want them.

Perhaps the op doesn't.

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 14:10:21

And I agree with what you said there Don'tmindifIdo

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 14:11:05

don'tmind we have established that and i apologised.

ISayHolmes Tue 20-Nov-12 14:12:35

I think it's madness to go to counselling with someone like this. A person who thinks it's reasonable to sulk over someone saying a compliment about his partner and tells his partner that they shouldn't even sit in their staff room, is not going to be swayed by counselling. They're controlling and have a worrying grip on reality.

He doesn't want you to sit in the same room as your colleagues, talk to your friends or get texts from them or hear that other people find you attractive. He doesn't trust you because you have exchanged flirty emails in the past, before you even knew he existed. Can you not see how warped and oppressive this is? He is trying to isolate you from everyone around you.

I say you'd be better off alone.

DontmindifIdo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:14:25

(Norah - sorry, took me too long to post that last message!)

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 14:15:13

Nora, I know some women don't and I think they are stupid to behave like that. Hence my reinforcement of your question to the OP.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:16:01

To be honest, he was the dishonest one, the cheating husband. I dont think the reason he is jealous, controlling, sulky and suspicious has anything to do with how you got together. If you and him are not a good fit, you dont have to stay with him, just because you were part of his first marriage break up.

Dont feel guilty, you helped another woman get rid of a cheating, controlling, sulking and jealous partner! For all you know she thought "good riddance".

Just because somebody else has married a man, it does not mean that he is a catch, actually...

And NO he will never trust you, because he has learnt that human nature cannot be trusted, mostly because he knows he cant trust himself. So why trust you? FGS, massive breach of privacy going through your emails.

Go to works do, chat with me, stay in the staff room. Support your friend whose husband died. So what if he sulks? That is his lookout.

Look out for yourself, ok?

Sioda Tue 20-Nov-12 14:20:00

"He's never said anything about children ever."
Doesn't sound like a whole lot of mature discussion between equals there...

"I keep trying to talk to my mum about it but she just won't listen to me."
OP, you're 31. You don't need your mum's help. He had an affair with you because you were younger and easier to control than his wife. He's not going to change. He's old and he's been treating women like shit for a long time. Cut your losses.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 14:20:16

Sorry af I misinterpreted your post.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 14:22:08

No worries, Nora, we are all trying to help

achillea Tue 20-Nov-12 14:31:33

My brother mentioned that a friend of his said I was fit and I knew IMMEDIATELY that the comment would cause friction and sure enough he sulked for two days before bringing it up with me.

I don't understand you OP. You say he found flirty emails. Why do you send flirty emails when you are in a relationship? Why do you tell him (or did your brother tell him?) that someone you knew thought you were fit?

There is something amiss here, don't get me wrong I think you are in a difficult and possibly abusive relationship but there seem to be some blurred boundaries and co-dependency. What are you telling your mother that she won't listen to?

Proudnscary Tue 20-Nov-12 14:32:47

Arrrggghh she didn't send emails when she was in a relationship with him!

achillea Tue 20-Nov-12 14:39:05

OK Proud, just re-read - so he actively logged on to her emails and checked her old emails? That's just creepy.

How old were the flirty emails OP and how the heck did he get on to your account? Was he hunting or was it just something that he found by accident.

achillea Tue 20-Nov-12 14:40:00

Also OP, when you say you are afraid to give an ultimatum (sort this out or leave) - what do you think he will say or do?

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 14:45:22

Does your mum think you have made your bed, so you now have to lie in it?

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 14:47:17

I don't know what he will say or do, that's the thing I'm scared of because it could be anything. I know I don't need my mums permission but it would be nice to have a port in the storm if I have to leave.
I didn't say I was fit, my brother said "oh well if we're on the subject [family resemblance] Xx said your sister's fit but it would be like kissing you but with long hair].

Totally out of my control.

ClippedPhoenix Tue 20-Nov-12 14:47:18

Sounds like the older he'll get the more insecure controlling he'll get and the older you get the more you'll outgrow and feel suffocated by him.

If I were you, I'd make plans for my departure.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 14:49:29

And my mum might think that I don't know. Also she has lent us money for our house and I know she will worry about that. She has no need to though because I can still pay her back even on my own.

quietlysuggests Tue 20-Nov-12 14:53:05

\Well you are being very closed on it all. You are afraid we'll flame you if you fully describe how you got together. So maybe you went all out and seduced him and he was previously happily married but you persued him and now he cannot believe you wont do it again? Who knows if you dont tell us. Perhaps you do deserve to have this miserable period, for you to fully reflect on the damage you did.

Sioda Tue 20-Nov-12 14:53:26

Your mum might think you don't know what?

DontmindifIdo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:54:01

Can anyone link to the article of "signs you are dating a loser"? I can't from here.

DontmindifIdo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:56:08

Any other friends with a spare room you could stay in for a month or so if you left? Would your mum not give you a spare bed if you left him? Does your mum know it's that serious or does she just think you're whinging? (Might be worth spelling it out to her)

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:56:11

Do you want to stay married to him?

What good sides does he have?

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:56:53

If you own a house together, and your mum lent you money for it, there is no reason why you should leave the marital home.

Can he leave?

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 14:56:55

Sioda, she might think that I've made my bed as someone suggested earlier.

I didn't pursue him really, I was flattered by the attention. It was a while before I realised he was married (he wasn't hiding it, I wasn't particularly interested in him at first) then once I sort of fell for him I think I pursued things more. I didn't actively go out to trap a married man.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Tue 20-Nov-12 14:58:24

The fact that he was married when you met is a red herring.

The point is that you seem to be in a marriage that is not quite working out for you. You are still young, you have no children with him, moving on should be relatively easy.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 14:59:13

Is this the one you mean, dontmind ?

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 15:05:35

His good sides, when he's nice he is really lovely and thoughtful. We used to have a great time together and always laughing but recently he has got worse and it's always a bit strained. I don't know if I want to stay married to him or not, it's only been three years and like lots of you have said I DO feel like he sacrificed a lot for me...
I just feel so low about it all I can barely lift a pen at work, it just seems so pointless.

DontmindifIdo Tue 20-Nov-12 15:07:19

AF - that's the one! MrsMorton - read the article AF has linked too. You might find it is in someways describing your marriage.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 15:09:58

So how do you feel about not having kids?

Have you every actually had a discussion about kids even just along the lines of him say 'i have had the snip, you know I can't have kids. Are you ok with that' and you saying 'yes'.

Surely you had even a 10 second discussion.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 15:14:07

Yes, very early on. But certainly not since we started living together fiveish years ago.
I don't really know how I feel, it's just been a thing I have accepted for the last 7 years. If I was given the opportunity to I don't know what I would do now...

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 15:16:25

I really, really hope you don't throw away your childbearing years on this inadequate man.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Tue 20-Nov-12 15:17:05

So really, you were just a young spring chicken of 22 when you met!

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 15:19:10

There's a lot of "I doooonn't knoooows..." in your posts, OP.

What do you know ?

You have married a man who is wrong, wrong, wrong in several different ways. You are gradually losing yourself in it all. You don't even know what you want any more...you just know you don't want this

So, what are you going to do about it ? Drift for another 7 years ? Curtail your life to please your controlling dick of a husband ? Look back in another 7 and realise you threw away your youth on this man, and it was still never enough ?

What ?

Viviennemary Tue 20-Nov-12 15:21:44

If you were not married when you first met your DH then you were not the one doing the cheating. So I can't see his problem really. You were the other women but so were a lot of people presumably.

helpyourself Tue 20-Nov-12 15:21:59

Run! And celebrate and be happy that you've worked this out now.
It was a very bad call getting involved with a married father, but on a scale where the very worst is targeting the Family and gas lighting the mother your sins barely register. Don't waste the rest of your life because of a mistake you made when you were in your early 20s.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 15:26:34

I know AF, I just feel so worn down by it all that I don't know what I want anymore.
I'm so grateful for an outlet for it all though because is RL everyone is judgy and I can't tell people the whole story. Now I need to think about a plan.

Abitwobblynow Tue 20-Nov-12 15:31:54

I have read that lack of trust is an issue in relationships based on betrayal. That you both know what you are capable.

Mrs Morton, what do you feel about children in the future?
What are your thoughts on Charbon's comment that his behaviour towards his wife was your first indicator of the man you were involved with?
Do you love him?
Are you scared of him?
How do you get on with his children?
What does he do if you cross him (go out, disagree with his opinion, etc)?

The nice part of me thinks what do you expect, you brought all on this on yourself and helped cause a lot of hurt to other people. confused
The other part of me thinks that you shouldn't have to pay for that mistake for the rest of your life, because you sound like you are a really nice person, who has looked at that stuff, regret it and has already paid for it..

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 15:34:04

Yes, very early on. But certainly not since we started living together fiveish years ago.

If this is in reply to when I asked if you had discussed kids, I don't get why the discussion would come up again.
he can't have them. It needs discussing once so you are clear, by certainly not again unless you change your mind.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 15:35:48

WObbly, I will answer your questions in order.

Yes, I understand the comments re: his wife. I thought I was special though and it would be different.
Yes I do love him
Yes I am scared of him sometimes
I get on well with the older boys, not so well with his daughter.
If I cross him he sulks, texts me with questions, doesnt speak to me.

Yes, that's how I feel. I have made my bed and this is penance for it.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Tue 20-Nov-12 15:40:56

Stop punishing yourself!

You are not happy. It does not sound like a good marriage. A marriage should not be punishment. Falling in love with a married man should not mean a life sentence!

"I don't even contemplate doing things like going for works Xmas do because I know that even asking him if I can go will make him accuse me of something and I will get loads of texts asking me where I am and what I'm doing. "

YOU HAVE TO ASK HIM IF YOU CAN GO ???

Fuck that for a game of soldiers!

(How I have longed to use that phrase)

ClippedPhoenix Tue 20-Nov-12 15:43:57

OP no one has to keep the same bed for life you know.

Stop that feeling that he "gave up a lot" for you, he didn't, he went all out to get a shiny new young thing that he thought he would be able to control.

oohlaalaa Tue 20-Nov-12 15:52:38

So, you were 24 when you got together. At 24, I would have been far too young to be tied down with a much older married man. You are still young at 31, get rid, and find a nice tasty young man. If he doesn't like it, no need to feel shitty, as he shat on his ex-wife for sex with a much younger woman.

Abitwobblynow Tue 20-Nov-12 15:54:07

Gave up a lot??? Believe me Mrs Morton, as a betrayed wife I can assure you he didn't care what his wife and children thought, what they felt or if they hurt. They were as important in his calculations as the dustball behind your cupboard.

The only thing he was focussed on was how good HE felt, how complete you made him feel and how deliciously exciting your tight twat was. Let's cut the cackle here.

But should this be a life sentence? I think the fact you posted here, is the beginnings of the stirrings of your authentic self. I wish you all the very bestest of luck in whatever you decide and commit to. Have you considered counselling?

And because he is a selfish man, I would not mind at all should he ever experience what being abandoned feels like. Not that Wobbly bears grudges, never!

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 15:59:29

I think I would like conselling but I don't know how to get it and I am quite a private person so I find it hard to talk about myself.

NoraGainesborough Tue 20-Nov-12 15:59:33

wobbly now really, I have just spat juice on the back of my toddlers head after reading the 'tight twat' comment. He does not look impressed.

But OP please listen to wobbly, he gave up nothing because that's what he thought of his wife and kids. Nothing. He didn't even really think anything of you. If hr did he wouldn't have wanted you to be part of such a sordid shitty situation.

He only cared about him. So he didn't give anything up.

And even if he did, you don't have to stay. It doesn't give him license to be a twunt.

DontmindifIdo Tue 20-Nov-12 16:05:34

I have made my bed and this is penance for it.

Oh love, a marriage shouldn't be penance - get out while you're young enough to start again, and more importantly, before, after years of him telling you you can't be trusted and are a cheat, you start to believe him and do actually cheat with the first man that treats you well. Right now, you probably are a big risk of an affair, because if someone hands you an easy escape route, I bet you'd take it.

The escape route you go on alone is harder in the short term, but long term it means you aren't just swapping one tosser for another.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Tue 20-Nov-12 16:06:15

Believe me, if he were in a position to find a 24 year old something now to dip his wick into, he would!

HilaryClinton Tue 20-Nov-12 16:06:51

I think you're married to my BIL, or certainly a clone of him. He always chose /chooses an OW so that she can be labelled the tricky untrustworthy one in the relationship. It is a cornerstone of the control. Everyone who has had a relationship with him wish they could erase every trace from their brain. You will too one day, and it just gets worse until the woman calls a halt.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 20-Nov-12 16:09:15

Leaving all talk of guilt, bed-making and being the OW out of the equation, therefore, what you've got is a good old-fashioned controlling older man with an obsessive, possessive behavioural pattern making life horrible for a naive younger woman.

He has no reason to not trust you. You have far more reason to not trust him. You owe him nothing at all.

OneMoreChap Tue 20-Nov-12 16:14:38

<raises head>
It's not because he was a man who had an affair, nor because your were the OW.

It's because he's being an arse. Basically, he needs to know that either he can trust you and have a lovely life with you, or be a whiny untrusting arse who will drive his wife away.

So would he rather be with you - or without you.
[Yes, some people here will point out that you had an affair too, with a married man - and maybe he worries you have an OM. That's his issue, not yours. He needs to deal with it, not you.]

JustFabulous Tue 20-Nov-12 16:36:48

You sound so unhappy and you need to really think about what you want to do.

Firstly - if you met him now and were a few weeks in and he was being like this what would you do?

You owe him nothing other than for both of you to be grown up about your marriage if it is no longer working for both of you.

Don't stay with him because you think he sacrificed his wife and full time access to his children for you, as I suspect he didn't look back.

Have some gumption and stop being scared of him and being ignored by your mother and start sorting ouit your life as you can't stay where you are now. It is no life for anyone.

In 40 years you want to be able to look back, while not having any photos of children/grandchildren, that you made the right decisions and would do it all again.

Would you?

I worry you are sticking with a man who is giving you nothing but grief and you haven't even got any children to love and is that something else you are sacrificing that is too high a price? Maybe if he was loving, caring, trusting and a decent bloke to be with then no children would be fine. Are you giving up your chance to have children for someone who isn't worth it?

Sioda Tue 20-Nov-12 16:43:13

"I think I would like conselling but I don't know how to get it and I am quite a private person so I find it hard to talk about myself. "

Come on OP - google! Phonebook! If you don't know anyone who could recommend someone then try the first one on the list then another and another till you find one you can work with. You need to start taking back some control over your life. You sound a bit depressed which is understandable and that makes it hard to make decisions or get things done. Start with something small like finding the phone book and work up to going to an appointment. Lots of people find it hard to talk about themselves but you sound like you don't really even know yourself anymore. Talking things through will help you find out who you are and what you want again. It might not be easy but nor are lots of things that are good for you.

Polecat2011 Tue 20-Nov-12 16:45:41

You absolutely don't deserve this treatment. But he has made you believe that you should accept it. There is a form of extreme or unjustified "Jealousy" that is a mental health issue, Malignant jealousy or somesuch. Try Google. There is also the "othello syndrome" which is, just like the Shakespeare Play suggests, where the suspected party is totally innocent. The Othello Syndrome, I believe, is sometimes associated with heavy alcohol consumption. Whatever it is, don't accept it.

I have only read the first page, so apologise if someone else has made these suggestions.

Polecat2011 Tue 20-Nov-12 16:47:03

Is it "Morbid Jealousy"?

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 16:54:38

I will do that regarding counselling. I am depressed. I'm on my way home now and I'm actually nervous FFS which is ridiculous.

Proudnscary Tue 20-Nov-12 16:54:57

Yes, look, I think everyone's saying the same thing on a sort of varying harsh-o-meter!

1. You do NOT have to stay with someone who is making you horribly unhappy because he left his wife for you. That is insane.
2. You fucked up massively and you regret that. The past is the past. What you did, you did. It was shit. But you can't change the past. You can change the future. You can be a better person. And a free person and a happy person. Someone with a valuable life to lead.
3. Stop saying 'I dooon't knoooo' as AF put it. You do know. You are a bit depressed but you can still get yourself out of this.
4. If you are not ready to leave him and think there is hope then at the very least tell him in no uncertain terms that you are at breaking point, you are on your knees, you are extremely unhappy because you feel controlled by him and have no trust in your marriage - that if things don't change you WILL leave him.
5. Then leave him.
6. Don't look back.
7. Don't fuck a married man again.

HoolioHallio Tue 20-Nov-12 17:13:13

You should sell tickets on yourself OP - WHY would you tell him what your brother said ??

You sound desperately immature, he sounds like a control freak and you are both fine examples of the type of people who screw others over to get what they want.

Walk away and find someone else to make you happy - preferably someone who is NOT married with children this time.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 17:17:29

I didn't tell him. My brother said it in front of us both. Thank you for your input.

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 17:32:42

Harsh Hoolio.

I think her brother said it...but don't let facts get in the way of your slating there.

helpyourself Tue 20-Nov-12 17:36:19

hoolio
I would tell my dh if someone had com

helpyourself Tue 20-Nov-12 17:40:17

Grr sorry
I would tell DH if someone had complimented me. Because he's not jealous and I don't have to watch what I say around him. Because that's what happens in healthy relationships.

Apocalypto Tue 20-Nov-12 17:59:10

+1 for all the "he's a complete arse" comments.

You're only a baby at 31 and you have no idea, but believe us, proper relationships are not like this. No way.

Find yourself someone young, confident, cheerful, with a humongous dick that only just barely and eyewateringly squeezes into your tight twat (tyvm wobbly), whose balls haven't been surgically altered to fire blanks, who does not wear trousers with elasticated waistbands ordered out of the paper, and who does not have hair growing out of his ears and nose.

Someone normal and your own age in other words. Then make beautiful babies together and have fun dressing them up in their best outfits for parties, at exactly the time old grumpychops will be getting his bus pass, having even more trouble keeping it in the bowl when he wees, and the backs of whose hands will increasingly resemble a high-end granite kitchen work top what with all the liver splotches and all.

There's a time to put up with that shit. It's when you're in the same shape yourself not 20 years early FFS.

Get a life sweetheart. Your 20s are a writeoff - but OTOH they're not because when you find someone decent you'll now appreciate him more.

Apocalypto Tue 20-Nov-12 17:59:42

optionally do the above while still married to victor meldrew. what can he say, really?

pictish Tue 20-Nov-12 18:04:28

I agree with helpyourself completely. I too would tell my dh if someone said I was fit. Why wouldn't I?

StillSquiffy Tue 20-Nov-12 18:15:18

Knowing what you know now, you would not touch him with a bargepole if this were the start of your relationship.

That's the difference. I didn't know how slovenly my own DH gets when he is absorbed in work, and a whole bunch of other stuff, but I do now. And i would still marry him. As would most of us. But you wouldn't. You'd run a mile.

And running a mile is exactly what you should be doing, right now.

MrsMorton Tue 20-Nov-12 18:38:40

Apocalypto, that is the post of my day. Thank you for making me smile.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 19:27:44

Apocalypto...that is a great post and if some of those images you paint don't make OP sit up and listen, nothing will

Just a thought. Has this controlling and insanely suspicious behaviour revved up recently ? I reckon he is shagging someone else himself

Abitwobblynow Tue 20-Nov-12 19:27:56

Mrs Morton, you sound like such a nice person. (I know I have said that before). Why do I say that, because you imagine what it must have felt like for the first Mrs Morton, in other words you can put yourself in their shoes, and you feel sorry about it all. You have consistently shown a lot of moral courage.
That, in Africa, is called ubuntu and is the highest form of humanity.

Please follow your instincts: which are, 1. you feel sad 2. you are depressed 3. you bravely came on here and asked for help.

I will pray for you tonight (think caring thoughts for all of you who don't do God) that you find a good, caring counsellor who can help you get everything into perspective, forgive your small young self and help you come to the right decision for you. Good luck.

And everything proudnscary says!

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 19:34:49

Abit, is there any chance, love, you could quit with the "tight twat" pronouncements (you do it a fair amount). I cringe every time I see them, and I am sure I am not the only one.

Feel free to tell me to piss off of course, I am not exactly Mother Teresa where foul language is concerned, but the context in which you say it is jarring. Cheers.

Abitwobblynow Tue 20-Nov-12 19:44:19

Why, AF? It might jar, but it happens to be the truth. And the truth is:

a wife and mother cannot possibly compete with a younger, more attractive OW - whom she is relentlessly compared with.

There is nothing about affairs that is fair, or just.

quietlysuggests Tue 20-Nov-12 19:44:41

agreed

dibs78 Tue 20-Nov-12 19:51:00

The bit that is telling for me is your wording about Xmas do's etc ....."asking if I can go".
He sounds controlling- surely it's healthy to run it by your partner that you have a date in the diary etc, but "asking" is what you do when you're under 18, living with your parents!!!

ErikNorseman Tue 20-Nov-12 19:58:45

What exactly do you love about this charmer? You are scared to even bring your feelings up with him, you see your life with him as a penance, he controls you, abuses you when you disagree with him, sulks, etc. what do you love about him, really?

dibs78 Tue 20-Nov-12 20:00:52

Haha....had only read the op....just went back over some of the thread...."tight twat". Spat my tea out! I'm a prude though. Say what you mean, that's my motto smile

Charbon Tue 20-Nov-12 20:19:03

I'd like to add my own discomfort with the 'tight twat' reference.

For lots of reasons.

It is by no means true that this is a desirable feature for every man. Without becoming too graphic, I'd like posters to use their imagination about why this is actually sometimes a hindrance to good PIV sex, especially if there is a mismatch in sizes between a couple.

It reduces the OP (and women generally) to nothing more than the capacity of their vaginas.

It is unnecessarily hurtful to lurkers and other posters who might erroneously feel inferior, because they are older and have experienced vaginal births.

Despite all the misogynist jokes about women's 'tightness' I have never heard a man cite this as a reason for his affair or as one of the plus points in a new partner. Even in men whose misogyny is evidently embedded and who cannot hide it.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 20:25:58

I have heard it said, Charbon. By the most foul man I have ever had the misfortune to come across (he did much, much worse than "simply" cheating on his wife). I don't want to think of any MN'ers in that way.

Snazzyfeelingfestive Tue 20-Nov-12 20:30:02

I am usually pretty harsh on cheaters, but the bit about how you can't sit in the staffroom in case you hear 'something rude' took the biscuit for me. Tell him the year 1850 called and it wants its attitude back. He has no right to carry on like this, whatever's happened in the past.

Apocalypto Tue 20-Nov-12 20:33:33

I took wobbly's post to be mockery of exactly that attitude.

Abitwobblynow Tue 20-Nov-12 20:34:17

Charbon, I got unnecessarily hurt. And as far as I can see, wives get reduced to objects whilst the OW is idealised.

Affairs are about shame, feeling less than, and deep humiliation, especially sexual and emotional. Its the other side of the seesaw nobody talks about, they get the high side, the excitement, the luurve and the hot sex.

Why should the OW miss out on these delightful experiences of pain? Just passing a bit of the humiliation on. Sorry, I am deeply flawed and massively furious that a woman knowingly helped a selfish man do this. They both know. The wife? It all happens without her knowledge or consent and that is deeply unfair. I know it is 'life' but it is so unfair and people just have no idea of the depth of the agony. Until it is being done to them.

Like I said, there is nothing fair or just about sexual betrayal.

Charbon Tue 20-Nov-12 20:34:52

I have heard it said, Charbon.

As per my third paragraph AF, I can't pretend I wouldn't have speculated about why this was such an issue for him, but if I'd voiced my suspicions aloud I guess I would have been just as bad as him wink

Charbon Tue 20-Nov-12 20:42:07

Abitwobbly now my love, I know you've been hurt - terribly. And you know how much I sympathise with that.

I'm just pointing out that if your misogynist husband said that this was a pull factor towards the OW, he is not every man who ever had an affair and that not all men think like this. Implying that it is a universal truth for all men, or all men in all affairs isn't necessarily correct. Men who reduce women like this really are in the minority.

Sadly, in this case it looks like the pull factor was nothing much to do with the OP's youthful physical attributes, but the psychological ones of being a younger, more pliable woman who was easier to manipulate and control than his wife.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 20:42:51

I do too, Apocalypto, and I have every sympathy with her. But it isn't necessary to keep repeating it. Free speech 'n' all that, of course, but it's horrible. Not every man thinks like that, as per Charbon said, not even every cheating man thinks like that. Only the worst kind of people who diminish women to their sex organs think like that, and I don't think we should be skimming our eyes over it to spare ABit's understandable hurt and anger.

If I were to hear that phrase in RL, I would challenge it. It is un-necessarily nasty and misogynistic.

AnyFucker Tue 20-Nov-12 20:44:57

no matter who says it, I forgot to add

Apocalypto Tue 20-Nov-12 21:01:35

A man who claims a woman's vagina isn't tight enough is surely in fact complaining that his cock's not big enough.

AIUI, the pleasure cocks get from the vagina has little to do with its tightness and lots to do with the warmth and wetness. Condoms don't block the former but do block the latter. So if you asked men what feels better, tight vagina plus condom or average vagina bareback, my guess would be that they'd mostly prefer the latter. Even assuming they can tell a "tight" vagina from any other, which I frankly doubt, it has nothing to do with what makes sex fun.

So yes - a gratuitous insult to bring it up.

I reckon the pleasure they obtain from anal sex is often largely unrelated to what it may feel like.

MrsMelons Tue 20-Nov-12 21:07:59

Quietlysuggests So a man who is married just forgets about it if someone tries to seduce him. OS what if she did - he was married and if he was happy he wouldn't even look at someone else.

I am not saying an OW is not at fault at all as its about morals but the responsibility and commitment lies with the married person. If anyone should have trust issues it should be the OP as he is the cheater.

Its not always bad people that cheat, I was in a miserable marriage - controlling husband very similar to some of the OPs description except he was similar age to me and we got together in very ordinary circumstances. It was verging on emotional abuse and it was awful (I was 25). I fell in love with someone else and once I realised (before anything had happened) I ended the marriage but I still fell in love with someone else.

My new DH has never made me feel like your DH makes you feel, he trusts me completely and I him - he knew I was married and pursued things but it was my decision to leave my XH or not. He doesn't think I am a low life and nor do I - these things happen and no its not a nice thing to do but thats life.

You don't deserve to be treated like this - it was years ago and I really wouldn't be surprised if he treated his XW like this.

Polecat2011 Tue 20-Nov-12 22:32:38

I still think you need to Google "Morbid Jealousy" OP. You will then realise this is all about him and not at all your fault. He chose you because you were good victim material I fear.

Abitwobblynow Tue 20-Nov-12 22:41:54

[Charbon to be fair he never said that - it was my hurt and humiliation that brought it up blush ]

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 07:01:43

I have read about the Othello complex and it's very fitting. He watches Coronation Street (I'm not into soaps) but i saw it last night and there's a storyline with the girl and Tyrone and that's how I feel.

AnyFucker Wed 21-Nov-12 07:13:37

You feel in danger of physical violence ?

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 07:30:47

He has never been violent but he gets really angry and shouts which does scare me.

AnyFucker Wed 21-Nov-12 07:34:47

sad

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 07:35:13

God I sound about six there. He's much bigger than me, a foot taller nearly & it is an unnerving sight when he gets angry. Even when it's not directed at me.

AnyFucker Wed 21-Nov-12 07:35:24

Do you change your behaviour because you are frightened ? What would he do if you didn't ?

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 07:42:21

I just do nothing. Quiet and still. I don't know what he would do but he has never made me think he will hit me.

AnyFucker Wed 21-Nov-12 07:59:53

This is awful

StillSquiffy Wed 21-Nov-12 08:00:14

He is a gaslighter. You really need to get out. He is damaging you.

In your own words:
He is insanely jealous
He punishes me for the nice things other people say about me
He is controlling
He scares me
He doesn't let me have friends
He doesn't let me talk to people at work
He sulks
He gets really angry

GO. You have no children to complicate it. JUST GO.

Snazzyfeelingfestive Wed 21-Nov-12 08:03:32

You obviously think you somehow 'deserve' all this. Not true. Go now and you can have a better life. This is no way to live.

NoraGainesborough Wed 21-Nov-12 08:04:18

Op this might sound harsh (but please bare with me while I explain) but you do sound like a child. Completely. You are 30ish not a child by any stretch of the imagination.

But I think he is a big part of this. He wants to keep you feeling like a child, because children tend not to have the courage to run away from someone they love regardless how they treat them. Many kids love their abusive parents completely and don't want to be taken from them.
Kids don't have the emotional maturity to express themselves and make big decisions for themselves like leaving home.
Alot of examples you have given about him, are similar to how I treat my dd. For example when your dh doesn't want you to go in the staff room at work because yiu might hear something rude. I don't want my dd hearing people rude stuff, BUT I would not stop her socialising with her school friends just in case. And school kids come up with all sorts of crap.
I give my dd more freedom, than this man wants you to have. My dd is 8 and sounds more independent than you.

But its not to late to change it. I earlier said counselling or leave. But honestly (and i don't say this usually) but leave the bastard. Its not just a trust issue that can be worked through. He is abusing you.

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 08:16:26

Nora, thank you very much for your posts. I understand and am genuinely listening/taking on board everything everyone is saying.
I feel like the floor has fallen out from under me and it will take me a while (probably a couple of months) to get my head around this to the extent where I can leave. I have the yellow pages site open on my computer right now to find a counsellor.

ErikNorseman Wed 21-Nov-12 08:24:41

I'll ask again - why do you love him?

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 08:30:47

Because when he isn't exhibiting this behaviour (nearly a week now) he is nice and kind and loving. It's just this behaviour is getting more frequent.

Apocalypto Wed 21-Nov-12 08:32:22

@ MrsMorton

I was looking at this granite worktop online last night and thinking of the backs of your old man's hands in about 10 years.

Just saying like.

Come on poppet, he's a bit of an arse inne?

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 09:34:39

Yes he is.

AnyFucker Wed 21-Nov-12 12:57:27

Do you want to saddle yourself with an ageing arse, love ?

Littleblue Wed 21-Nov-12 13:22:04

I would suggest womensaid for a chat in the first instance , having read this through. The basis of the start of your relationship has little to do with where you are both at now , 7 years down the line... OP , WALK AWAY this isn't a loving marriage , you live on your nerves , isolated and in fear of when he will flip next, am I right? get out.... just do it , you have years ahead of you to find a good wholesome relationship.... this man is not it , and he will never change ( nor is it your fault ) Don't take on the judgement of the bashers on here , you opened this thread for support... not abuse. I have my own opinions of OW scenarios , as my other thread currently will demonstrate.... but I see no benefit in raking over your history to use against you and your situation as it stands now.. today .... get some support thru womensaid/on here ... and start looking at it with fresh eyes , not guilty self hating ones.

Littleblue Wed 21-Nov-12 13:24:03

Oh and by the way.... shouting is violent behaviour... you don't need to take a punch for it to be domestic violence.

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 13:37:58

No. I thought I knew what I wanted when I was younger. Hindsight!!

Littleblue Wed 21-Nov-12 13:48:27

And now you know.... I am quite alot older than you , but still too young to settle for a crap relationship... take some steps , gently , to face leaving this... x

This man is a total cunt. You are the same age as me and I'm only just settling down now, you have plenty of time to ditch this man and find a nicer one, or find happiness by yourself.

pictish Wed 21-Nov-12 15:15:57

The shouting and the anger are domestic violence too. He intimidates you to let you know what he's capable of, and to keep you in line. And what's more - it works.
You will no doubt be regulating your own behaviour so as not to set him off. You will keep schtum about things you want to bring up with him, and curtailing your own life and desires to keep him on an even keel.
That's abuse mate. That's what it's all about.
He diminishes you so he can keep you where he wants you.
A good partner sets you free...did you know that?

Stopthepidgeon Wed 21-Nov-12 15:56:19

You make your bed .......

Apologies for harsh response - apologies if that sounds harsh but is a response from a wife whose husband has recently had an affair so I am very bitter at the moment

I haven't read past your post so I don't know what other people have suggested - from my point of view, if something is wrong/making you unhappy talk about it with him

Stopthepidgeon Wed 21-Nov-12 15:57:07

or simply walk away from him - and move on

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Wed 21-Nov-12 18:42:29

Stopthepidgeon - this thread is in Relationships, not Aibu. You might be wise to read a thread before posting harsh knee jerk reactions.

InNeedOfBrandy Wed 21-Nov-12 19:04:54

Stopthepidgeon don't be so rude to post without reading, if you cannot be bothered to read thread then please don't be bothered to post.

OP I know it sounds hard to just give up everything and walk away, have you got somewhere to go? Would he move out? It's all very well for us to say leave him but your tied to him in some extent with the house. Is is PR or mortage? Can you save a stash of money first or leave on your payday?

TeaMakesItToTheTop Wed 21-Nov-12 19:52:14

This makes me so sad

Now you've got the yellow pages open make that call to get yourself a counsellor.

You absolutely deserve better. No-one ever, ever deserves to feel scared, undermined and so alone. I have had my heart broken, my future trampled on by an OW. Unfortunately, I was vulnerable as a result and walked into the situation you are in. I thought I deserved it so tried to fix it. It just escalated and escalated whatever I did. It was like a living death. Neither you or I, or anyone else in this position, deserved it. We were "selected" because we were identified as pliable and a lack of self-esteem and guilt keeps you there.

Take your future for yourself. Imagine the things your 20 year old self wanted to do. Go do them. You're only a youngster still, I'm 10 years ahead of you and I can tell you a life of joy, laughs, friends, family and peace is absolutely possible despite stupid mistakes in your 20's.

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 19:58:05

Thank you all so much for your kind words. I could never have found support like this in RL because no matter how much I want to talk about it, I can never find the right words or the right person to talk to.
I am taking small steps, starting with finances. I am the main earner and I earn very well (not a stealth boast) so thankfully finances are well down my list of concerns. I realise how lucky I am to be in that position.
I just need to make sure everything is in order before I do anything.

AnyFucker Wed 21-Nov-12 20:03:08

Time and time again sad . An inadequate older man takes a younger, shining, sorted, clever younger woman with everything to live for and takes her apart...piece by piece.

You were instrumental in the initiation of your own downfall, OP, but it doesn't mean you have to stick around to watch the completion of it.

ClippedPhoenix Wed 21-Nov-12 20:09:38

Spot on AF.

Charbon Wed 21-Nov-12 20:10:28

You know love, you've got so much going for you and that sadly isn't always the case on these boards.

You've got financial independence, no dependents and you're only 31. As someone upthread said - this is the time of life when many of us hadn't even settled on a life partner.

I sincerely hope this thread has shown you that there are no prizes for sticking with a past mistake made while you were young and naive. I hope it's also shown you that the stories some men tell about their wives and ex-wives need far greater scrutiny. Under different circumstances, I suspect as two women you and his ex-wife would have a lot of empathy for one another, having been married to the same punitive and controlling man. Good luck and be brave.

NoraGainesborough Wed 21-Nov-12 20:13:32

I am not very up on divorce, without children. But if you earn more, could he get spousal maintenance?

OP, as af said you made the decision to sleep with a married man and made choices that led you down this path. However while sleeping with a married man is (imo) a very bad thing to do. It does not make you a bad person. I can't believe that one decision defines you as a person.

A bad decision also doesn't mean you have to put up with abuse.

If you need advice please come back. I won't flame you.

purplecrayon Wed 21-Nov-12 20:22:06

Please do take the advice AnyFucker gives above:

AnyFucker Wed 21-Nov-12 20:03:08

Time and time again sad . An inadequate older man takes a younger, shining, sorted, clever younger woman with everything to live for and takes her apart...piece by piece.

You were instrumental in the initiation of your own downfall, OP, but it doesn't mean you have to stick around to watch the completion of it.

Fuckitthatlldo Wed 21-Nov-12 20:26:42

Mrs Morton you once had an affair with an older, married man. That is not a crime.

Domestic abuse however, IS. What's more, it is a crime which almost always escalates over time. Your own experience shows that to be the case, no?

Goodness, of course you do not deserve this because of one mistake made when you were young and naive. I feel so sad that you have been carrying such a level of guilt all this time. Please don't flagellate yourself over this anymore. It's done, you've learned from it, you deserve some peace of mind.

Thank goodness you are in a strong financial position - it is at least one less obstacle in your way if you decide you definitely want to go.

Sending you loads of virtual moral support. You deserve a good life op. Good luck.

HilaryClinton Wed 21-Nov-12 20:44:23

AnyFucker Wed 21-Nov-12 20:03:08

Time and time again . An inadequate older man takes a younger, shining, sorted, clever younger woman with everything to live for and takes her apart...piece by piece.

You were instrumental in the initiation of your own downfall, OP, but it doesn't mean you have to stick around to watch the completion of it.

If you haven't read and taken this on board already, here it is again.

ClippedPhoenix Wed 21-Nov-12 20:51:43

Get out and take that with you, take my whole hearted blessing too.

Proudnscary Wed 21-Nov-12 21:16:50

Be warned if and when you do decide to leave, he will pull out the big guns:

Accuse you of an affair
Call you every demeaning name under the sun
Say he should never have left his wife - you weren't worth it
Beg you, weep, promise to change - he only keeps you in this prison because 'he loves you so much'
Get angry
Get scary
Threaten you
Threaten to hurt you or hurt himself

All these things will stop you leaving or break you donw if you don't prepare for it and keep remembering you have a right to leave, that how you got together is nothing to do with how he's treating you now. He's using your affair to keep you - make you feel you deserve this, you're unworthy of being treated well, you can't be trusted, you are a bad person.

You have a right to be free. This is NOT the man who is going to allow you to be happy.

doinmybest Wed 21-Nov-12 21:18:03

my husband has just left to move in with OW and to be honest its one of the things I keep thinking about. If someone can lie and cheat to such an extent, how can they expect to move straight into a trusting relationship? He is measuring you by his own standards but tbh he knows it hasnt bothered you before so probably thinks you could do it again

MrsMorton Wed 21-Nov-12 21:38:11

Doin, I'm really sorry to hear that. You are right in that's how he feels.

ClippedPhoenix Wed 21-Nov-12 21:47:20

with respect doin who gives a fuck how he "feels". Your husband is a prick, the OP's husband is a prick. Therefore you have more in common than you think at the moment.

achillea Thu 22-Nov-12 12:16:50

I've just caught up on the posts, and the picture you have uncovered is clear and bold and it seems that you have made up your mind and decided to leave.

Can I suggest that you don't spend too much time analysing this. You are financially secure, you can walk when you want to. So I suggest that you walk when the fancy takes you. It might be over spilled milk, it might be just a feeling that you get when you think about him. Just get up and go, make the decision and stick to it.

I say this because I believe he has trapped you (as abusers do, possibly unconsciously because it's the only thing that works for them, as abusive behaviour is often an emotional survival technique).

He is doing all the things he can to make you stay (the unpredictable reactions are a one technique) but it is an unrealistic relationship (I think you see that now).

So are you prepared to just go (you might have to get some papers photocopied and precious things stashed)?

Interesting that his daughter doesn't get on with you - that may be more to do with him than her or you.

MrsMorton Thu 22-Nov-12 12:43:13

Wow, um. No. I went through finances last night. They are complicated but tbh, I would happily go and take nothing except what we owe my parents.
It's come around fast (this decision) and I haven't thought about anything else. I need to arrange somewhere to live, that's my next step.

I will keep you posted but I do need to do this in my own time. I will do it though. I will.

DontmindifIdo Thu 22-Nov-12 12:50:52

Well done OP - give yourself time, you are in no rush, just get your life sorted before you leave.

Proudnscary Thu 22-Nov-12 13:27:06

Good luck, Mrs Morton

x

achillea Thu 22-Nov-12 13:28:19

I'm glad you are determined and are clear in your mind about it.

People sometimes procrastinate about this kind of thing, end up over-analysing it, then years later find it's too late.

AnyFucker Thu 22-Nov-12 14:24:41

Good luck, but get a move on

Stopthepidgeon Thu 22-Nov-12 14:44:35

Mrs Morton

I unreservedly apologise for my extremely unkind response to your post, my response was very insensitive and totally uncalled for.

All of us come on here for help with our problems (me included) and great advice can be given here - I don't exactly know why but I momentarily lost the true spirit of MN. I am truly sorry to have added to your stress.

I have read through the whole post - you have been given some excellent advice - do what you need to do to get out of this horrible situation. You don't deserve to be treated on this way. You sound lovely.

MrsMorton Thu 22-Nov-12 15:03:20

I understand. This is an amazing resource and do you know what? I will get responses like that in RL so it's good to get my skin appropriately thickened. Your open apology is very kind.

AnyFucker Thu 22-Nov-12 15:49:41

It takes guts to make a proper unreserved apology like that, STP

Op hasn't tried to garner any sympathy for her predicament, and has accepted all the criticism coming her way (and knows she deserves at least some of it). I wish her well, and I am glad you now do too.

Abitwobblynow Thu 22-Nov-12 21:45:47

Yes, that is something about Mrs M that has just shone through, hasn't it? Dignity, integrity, an innate goodness.

Good luck Mrs M. Let us know what happens. It really won't be easy and there will be a lot of heartache but trust your gut, where ever it takes you.

And, could you perhaps find it in yourself to apologise to that daughter? For helping her Dad be a twunt, hurting her mother, being the prize of a family breakup.

MrsMorton Fri 23-Nov-12 08:43:32

Has anyone ever done email counselling? Or is it really something that needs to be face to face. I just think I would be more comfortable and able to share more if I could write it down...

achillea Fri 23-Nov-12 11:11:00

Not sure about email counselling - probably quicker face to face.

AF - regarding 'deserves some of the blame' - isn't the guilt around being a home-wrecker the perfect weapon of power that an abusive man can find, that and the power involved in the secrecy and the likely 'you and me against the world' kind of false allying that these people do? They can be sooo manipulative it is very likely that it is precisely because OP was unable to resist him that he sought her out?

(sorry to talk about you in 3rd person OP)

AnyFucker Fri 23-Nov-12 12:34:15

Yes, achillea, you are probably right.

Although if your inference was that I was being unfair to op, perhaps you have misunderstood them?

AnyFucker Fri 23-Nov-12 12:47:26

My posts, that is

Abitwobblynow Fri 23-Nov-12 12:53:29

Mrs M, that is avoiding though. You see, 90% of communication is body language. And the fact that you don't want to do it, means that this is an area of growth for you! Being intimate and trusting someone else with your inner self...

Hard, but feel the fear and do it anyway.

MrsMorton Fri 23-Nov-12 13:25:36

Abit you know I had a feeling someone would say that and yes it is an area I need to work on.

I'm happy to be talked about in the third person, everyone's posts help me understand a little bit better what has happened and that all helps really.

I do think I am being gaslighted, a name for it is good.

Littleblue Fri 23-Nov-12 14:51:10

This kind of is online counselling...of a fashion? I know I have always found mumsnet to be so , for me.... some of the posters on this thread have also been hugely helpful to me , time and time again... I have just caught up with this thread after a couple of days away and I think its safe to say there are many of us rooting for you as you face this and deal... just imagine for a second , walking in your own front door , sitting where you want , for how long you want.... watching/listening to whatever you wish..... you can make your bedroom a nest , your 'cave' to reside in as you wish....have friends over , eat whatever you bloody want , and move around your life as you please...go out for an evening with anyone you want to...... sounds nice doesn't it??! I existed for years and saw nobody....now I go out alot , huge circle of friends , I go to live gigs , stay over with friends and vice versa...lifes not easy , but the only person who runs my life is me smile

achillea Fri 23-Nov-12 16:50:38

I think a good professional counsellor will not expect you to be completely open from the start, I guess all they need is enough honesty for them to be able to help you understand your situation. CBT is quite good for not delving too deeply but enabling you to understand and change behaviours.

MrsMorton Fri 23-Nov-12 17:25:51

I'm so sad I just don't know what to do. I'm sorting washing etc out (we share household jobs) and I KNOW that I will have done something wrong for him to pick on and it's like there's no fucking point even trying to get it right because he will be negative from the minute he walks in.

I have him three options for food tonight, we've had a busy week. Either I cook, we go out or we get a takeaway. Decided that I will cook. This morning after I had taken some fish out of the freezer. Oh we're going out for a meal... Really?

Just everything is pissing me off at the moment. "Have you used the gym in work?" Not recently, why? "Because you don't always tell me things" is it a problem if I do use it? "I don't care what you do"

I can't get my head around it. Sorry for a rant, I just needed to get it off my chest.

NoraGainesborough Fri 23-Nov-12 17:30:49

he is a twunt.

the weird questioning and changing his mind is all part of the control.

I don't know you, but i want you to get out asap.

Bettyintheburbs Fri 23-Nov-12 18:54:21

Leave him. I was the OW also in my early 20s (am now 38). In short, we met, he was 24 years older than me, left his wife of 25 years six weeks after meeting me, we moved in together, got married, stayed married for ten years, now divorced. XH has two children close to my age, had a vasectomy, refused to have more. When I was 30 I started wanting a child, which he refused to discuss and would sulk for days. For years I thought this was my 'karma', but one day my biological clock turned into a shrill alarm clock that wouldn't stop. I now have an 18month DD who I adore, a loving DP and my XH is happier without me 'nagging for babies' too. We all make mistakes, the worst one here would be to stay trapped out of a sense of duty. Staying married won't undo the hurt caused to his XW. Don't worry about people judging you, you deserve to be happy.

MrsMorton Sat 24-Nov-12 09:56:20

Betty, thank you. It is hard not to worry about being judged though dont you think? I was woken up this morning to discuss how I have changed and when I said, you never talk to me any more, all I can get out of you is negative and grumpy one word answers that's apparently because he's trying to give me more space. I know later he will ask why we didn't have sex this morning. Being woken up to "discuss" things isn't exactly erotic dear.

I'm using this thread as a diary of sorts to refer back to when I lose my nerve.
Into town now where no doubt I will get a hard time for wanting to drink an americano rather than a latte. hmm

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 10:28:34

What a Grim way to live sad

Woozley Sat 24-Nov-12 10:33:00

Mumsnet is so hysterical about other women. Some posters sounds like a cross between Mary Whitehouse & Anne Robinson. Jeez.

MrsMorton Sat 24-Nov-12 10:38:42

AF, I don't need any more convincing!! It is grim but there's a light at the end of the tunnel now.
Woozley, you're right. I was thinking about this when I couldn't sleep last night, one day anyone's DD could turn up at the door and say "I need help" like I have and where would they put their judgy pants then? It's easy to take the moral high ground and judge but RL has a habit of fucking things up sometimes doesn't it!!

formerdiva Sat 24-Nov-12 10:39:24

MrsMorton, this sounds awful. I feel absolutely suffocated on your behalf. Please, please change your situation. If he can't/won't change, then you have to get out. Life is too short to be so unhappy sad

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 10:43:34

Woozley, read the thread before making statements that make you look a bit thick

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 10:47:40

MrsM,, with all the support you have had on this thread, do you really think it fair to agree with Woozley's assessment of posters on MN ?

Proudnscary Sat 24-Nov-12 11:00:10

Wow, shown your true colours there, Mrs Morton.

Where is the hand wringing, guilt ridden OP who thinks what she did was so bad, karma is keeping her in an abusive relationship?

That has really pissed me off after all the kind support you've had - some from women whose lives have been wrecked by OW.

Abitwobblynow Sat 24-Nov-12 11:14:11

Mrs M, a few pages I wrote rather heartfeltedly, about the pain of being betrayed. And how awful it was to know that another woman who KNEW what the real situation was, was doing.

So tell me again about judgy pants, when we are helping you get your head round the consequences YOU BROUGHT ON YOURSELF?

I remember quite clearly Charbon telling you that someone who is prepared to shove his family under the bus is giving some accurate indications about who they are as a person. But you are now bleating about the effects of those indications you ignored, on you?

What exactly is it you want?

MrsMorton Sat 24-Nov-12 11:23:45

I am thinking that some people will judge without even thinking or having had any experience of what it is like to be in any sort of situation where EA, OWs or any form of unhappiness exist.
I'm genuinely sorry to have offended anyone by what I said, I know I will lose RL Friends over this because they will judge me. I know that after my experience I could never ever assume that something is as simple as it appears on the surface. I'm sorry for an ill thought out comment but I stand by my comment that it is easier to take the moral high ground than it is to set those opinions aside.

I am still and will always be exceptionally grateful for the advice that I have been given. I'm sorry.

MrsMorton Sat 24-Nov-12 11:25:15

And those sentiments apply to those who have pm'dme with abuse and support.

ErikNorseman Sat 24-Nov-12 11:30:29

Wow
You have had a lot of support and acceptance despite many women on this thread having experience of being cheated on. I have been surprised and amazed at how easily posters have set aside their own feelings to give you great, non judgemental support. And you start wittering on about judgy pants hmm Classy.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 24-Nov-12 11:32:32

There is no need to pile on the OP, there have been vile comments on this thread directed to her that must of hurt.

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 11:33:23

Yes, it was ill thought-out in that as soon as a sniper came onto the thread, a poster who had offered you no support at all prior to coming on your thread with a clear agenda of slagging off other MN'ers, you immediately sided with that.

Instead of saying "oi, just a minute, these MN'ers have been a great help to me, so sling your hook, mate"

sad

Proudnscary Sat 24-Nov-12 11:36:02

No-one wants you to be endlessly sorry or 'grateful' on here, but to say what you said upthread - I'm shocked to be honest. It's not about judgement, it's about feeling duped.

You don't really think you did anything that bad do you? You think you fucked up and that any of us could to the same.

Well I am 42 and I have never shagged a married man even when I was single and, trust me, I sowed my oats back then!!

What would I say to my dd? I'd support her and love her no matter what, but I'd be bloody angry with her too. And I would have told her for years beforehand what it means for one woman to do this to another - the havoc and pain it would wreak.

Good luck (I mean it) because your dh is a cunt. But I'm out. You've shot yourself in the foot and I for one am extremely pissed off.

waltermittymistletoe Sat 24-Nov-12 11:38:51

I was going to post a big long-winded message to you but seeing you slag off the posters who have spent nine pages supporting you I think there's very little point.

Fuckitthatlldo Sat 24-Nov-12 11:42:04

Abitwobbly that's enough!

The op did NOT bring this on herself at all! No woman deserves to be abused. No woman asks to be abused.

She had an affair with a married man. That is not a crime and has nothing whatsoever to do with the abusive situation she now finds herself in.

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 11:44:54

Personally, I think OP was naive (but not malicious) and perhaps not well-versed in the "sniper" mentality of some internet users who post shit-stirring calls to arms and then fuck off, offering no support to the Op at all

there's a great deal of naivity shining through pretty much all of Op's posts, so I guess it's not too much of a surprise, and that was a genuine apology I think

Abitwobblynow Sat 24-Nov-12 11:44:58

I'm out too.

Your minimising of what you did (fucking a married man and help ruin forever, his children's sense of being safe and loved) shows me who you are.

I was in the same unfulfilled marriage as my H, and I DIDN'T CHEAT. It's a choice. What is happening to you didn't 'just happen' to you.

Please don't have any children. You are rather cold and there is some nasty martyrish hidden anger in there too.

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 11:46:39

and now we have it...woozley has achieved it's aim

throw a grenade in, fuck off and watch the fun

this thread was going fine until that turned up

let's get it back to where it was before

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 24-Nov-12 11:48:23

Op pm me if you ever want to talk, don't listen to the vile rantings on here of course you deserve to have children if you want, don't take to heart the vileness of some.

MrsMelons Sat 24-Nov-12 11:50:45

Abitwobbly It was her H that ruined his marriage and quite possibly his XW. Yes she did something wrong but I must say as much as I think it is absolutely wrong to knowingly get together with a married man in very late teens/early twenties I did the same as they do promise you the world and convince you that you are 'the one'. Its immaturity and naivety but not a crime and not malicious by the sounds of it.

Some of you nasty posters do sopund as if you think you are so much better than everyone else and clearly have never made a mistake when you were young!

Abitwobblynow Sat 24-Nov-12 11:53:30

Fuckthatdildo it is called the law of cause and effect. 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction'.

EVERY choice has a conseqeunce. If you make good choices, they have good consequences. If you make no choice, that in itself is a choice (and therefore will carry a consequence arising out of the passivity).

Why do moral relativists deny this very basic fact of life, as 'judgement'? It is not judgement, it is stating a fact. You really do reap what you sow. No amount of progressive theories will ever take this fact of life away.

It is the reason behind the FACT that very few relationships started on the basis of deceit and betrayal (failure rate stated as somewhere from 90% - 97%).

Because, as Charbon has stated many a time, a person who choses to cheat reveals issues that are rarely about the marriage, but boil down to selfishness.
Love is based on the hard work of acts of integrity. Love is NOT a feeling.

It is illogical, therefore, to dismiss this as 'judmental'

Proudnscary Sat 24-Nov-12 11:54:24

AF/Fuckthatlldo: totally disagree. It offended me - and that's from someone who has not been cheated on so I am not coming from a place of anger or bitterness.

I do however agree that certain posters' style/language is jarring, sometimes hysterical and too harsh.

Proudnscary Sat 24-Nov-12 11:55:44

Oh God this is just going round and round in circles - the posters shouting 'judgey pants'...have you actually read the thread?!

Proudnscary Sat 24-Nov-12 11:57:01

Ps I realise I have terrible form for saying 'I'm out' then coming back!

MrsMorton Sat 24-Nov-12 11:57:18

Most of the pms I have had have told me not to have children, apart from the one that hoped any I did have would be stillborn (thank you for that one). I will go away now, I have obviously made too many mistakes.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 24-Nov-12 11:58:49

Mrsmorton that is truly sickening, please report them. An please pm me anytime. <hugs>

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 12:05:45

proud I was offended too, but tried make people see that the thread was going ok until one malicious sniper decided to knock it off course and MrsM naively responded to that. She has apologised and I accept the apology.

MrsM...those pm's you got are disgusting. Report them to HQ, and believe that the vast majority of women do not wish that upon you.

I don't think you should have children with this particular man ....the reasons for which were being unpacked and examined on your thread in a constructive way, I felt

don't flounce...although I have a funny feeling the thread going this way has been somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy as far as you are concerned

you came on looking for a kicking, now you can go away and justify staying with this awful man

not MN's finest hour (for lots of reasons...not particular posters, nor particular viewpoints expressed)

Fuckitthatlldo Sat 24-Nov-12 12:10:02

MrsMorton that is horrendous. Anybody who sends a message like that to a stranger is emotionally sick.

I'm so sorry you've come on here for support and a minority of people have responded in this way.

You do not deserve what is happening to you in any way, shape, or form. It is not your fault. Sending you much virtual moral support.

You deserve a good and contented life. Go for it.

Abitwobblynow Sat 24-Nov-12 12:10:37

I made a huge mistake in my late 20s. When someone told me who they were, I chose not to believe him. I thought I could change him, and that my love could cure him. When he asked me to marry him, I was thrilled and ignored a PSYCHOTHERAPIST'S warning not to marry him, that he would make me very unhappy.

How fucking stupid was that.

Well, now, I am living my consequence. My wilfulness, my lack of understanding of what proper love is, my FOO issues ['children of narcissists have a very high tolerance of not having their needs met']. I am not blaming anyone else, I am setting about looking as to why, how, what etc, and what I need to do to find the self-care to protect myself better. Less dependent, less giving over of my self, having better boundaries. All the things I needed to have then, in order to have seen his red flags for what they were and made a different choice. (actually the same journey as Mrs M and countless other women who thought they and their love was different).

Its called being honest, owning your sh*t.

Not being naive, 'it just happened' 'other people are judgemental'.

ninah Sat 24-Nov-12 12:15:54

what LaQueen said
also from my dim recollection of my early 20s there was a wide choice of available, single men

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 24-Nov-12 12:16:08

The thing I abitwobbly this thread isn't about you, this woman is not the reason your marriage broke down an actually from the sounds of things you should be glad your husband left. Now can you please stop being so self righteous and cruel.

MrsMorton Sat 24-Nov-12 12:22:04

I'm not flouncing. I just feel that as you said AF this is no more than I deserve and I am almost certainly naive and that's probably because I'm not allowed to think for myself.
It wasn't latte vs americano today but I had to eat a sandwich and a pastry otherwise there would have been sulking.

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 12:26:03

MrsM...please repost and quote where I have said "this is no more than you deserve"

Do not attribute that quote to me, please

Abitwobblynow Sat 24-Nov-12 12:26:59

Brandy no it isn't, but someone LIKE this person is the reason and if that someone says something that minimises an explosively hurtful issue, flaming does tend to ensue. I then tried to explain that I WAS living what I was saying about making poor choices and not emotionally growing. Can't be done in 2 sentences.

Wooow, I see that there have been some nasty PMs. For the record, my PM was supportive and I will be happy to reveal it if not believed.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 24-Nov-12 12:31:24

Wobbly if you ignored a psychotherapist warning (and some would say you brought that on yourself) why can you not see that a OW would ignore a wife with him minimising it down. If you want to start a thread about hating OW who ruined your life (again I think from the more you say you should be grateful) then do so but the op does not deserve to be your punching bag for something she has not done to you.

Fuckitthatlldo Sat 24-Nov-12 12:38:10

I've read the whole thread from start to finish Proud. We're just coming from different viewpoints is all. Personally I feel nothing but sympathy for the op.

I respect the view of many Mners that being any part of an adulterous relationship is beyond the pale. Infidelity can cause great pain, I know. But my personal view is that humans are imperfect and that their relationships can be messy. Relationships break down - it is never easy no matter the circumstances.

People make mistakes. The op is sorry for hers.

She is now a victim of domestic abuse. That is something unrelated to infidelity. It is not her fault and she is entitled to support and sympathy.

Abitwobbly. With respect, I feel as though you are talking about yourself and your own situation on this thread, rather than really relating to the op. You're talking about your own choices and your own self blame - your own feelings that you are justifiably living with the consequences of some poor decisions made long ago. That isn't owning your stuff - that's taking responsibility for someone elses behaviour.

Domestic abuse is never the victims fault. That is all.

MrsMorton Sat 24-Nov-12 12:40:41

I wasn't attributing it to you AF, I can't stop getting things wrong and offending people. I really am off now before I cause any more offense. Thank you.

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 12:45:09

You didn't offend me, love. I just wanted you to set the record straight on that one point.

waltermittymistletoe Sat 24-Nov-12 12:58:17

MrsMorton there's no point in leaving on a wave of self-fulfilled prophecy.

You were expecting to be treated like a piece of dirt here but you haven't been. Leaving now will cut you off from the very good and supportive advice you're getting here.

You need to learn to ignore the nasty posts. As for those PMs, report them. Utterly vile and notice how whoever said it didn't have the guts to say it on the thread? Says a lot about the person she is and that's not someone whose opinion I would put much store in!

I see you've apologised for your earlier statement so I think you should continue with the thread and let it get back on track.

There are a lot of very hurt, betrayed women on MN and they won't give you a break. But as long as you don't expect them to then you can let it roll off your back.

Charbon Sat 24-Nov-12 13:35:31

Mrs Morton please report the offensive PMs you have received, as this will be a good way of repaying MN for the help you've received on this thread. It's in none of our interests to have posters allowed on this site who conduct themselves this way and as I recall, MNHQ has promised that it takes offensive PMs even more seriously than hate posts on a thread. Which is right because PMs are a more serious level of personal attack.

I agree that your reaction to this is telling. At best it might mean that you tell yourself that the approbation of others is worse than living with a controlling and emotionally abusive man and therefore gives you an excuse for inertia and at worst it might mean that you are so deeply entrenched in victim mode that you can't discern between mistakes you should own and those you should not.

Be very clear about this. You behaved very badly years ago and need to own that behaviour and not excuse it, but once you've done that - forgive yourself and resolve never to get into that situation again. But part of that process is seeing that you and his ex-wife were both victims of an abusive and controlling man that you both always deserved to be free of.

Don't continue to victimise yourself about either your marriage or MN. Report the messages and take responsibility for investment in this online community. End your marriage and take responsibility for your own life and happiness.

OrbisNonSufficit Sat 24-Nov-12 13:42:27

Goodness what a thread... Affairs (and discussion re where blame lies for them) = angst, unavoidably. OP I think that's a bit of a side issue though, in your case. Even if you'd both been single when you got together, the things you're describing about your relationship aren't healthy. You're not happy - that's what matters. Everyone deserves to be happy, everyone. Guilt gives you nothing, it only takes. So gird your ladyballs and go and do what makes you happy, which I sincerely doubt involves staying with your husband...

Sioda Sat 24-Nov-12 14:10:41

OP writing yourself off as a bad, naive, incompetent person is just another way of avoiding doing the hard work of taking care of yourself. Writing other people off as judgmental is just another way of avoiding having to listen to them. You've made a start on taking back control of your life and you should reward yourself for every small step you take in that direction. Self-flagellation and feeling sorry for yourself are understandable but they're just distractions. They're ways of giving up on yourself.

You're scared of being alone, of taking a big decision, of being responsible for your life, of what people will say. The only way past that is to face your fears honestly one step at a time. No one else can either do that for you or stop you from doing it if you want to do it. Its your life and your choice. You're perfectly capable of it so stop letting yourself off the hook so lightly.

MooncupGoddess Sat 24-Nov-12 14:57:19

Whether you stay here or leave, OP, it sounds like you've made some great progress in assessing your life and options. Take what you find useful from this thread and ignore the rest (and do report those vile PMs).

Proudnscary Sat 24-Nov-12 16:00:16

Hi Fuckit, yes we are in agreement. I have said a few a times on this thread that no-one deserves to be in such an unhappy relationship with a dreadfully controlling, abusive man. No-one.

But OP's post was terribly mistimed, insulting and makes me wonder what her true feelings are about what she did - I think it was really rather illuminating.

I have RL friends who have had affairs with married men. I still love them, support them, socialise with them. I do understand that OP is a real person, just like my friends, who is imperfect as (I hope it goes without saying) we all are.

I'm afraid I also agree with what you say about Abit. Sorry Abit - I know you often have very insightful comments but equally your posts often really jar with me, make me cringe and to be honest worry me a bit.

Littleblue Sat 24-Nov-12 17:27:21

Wow , this kicked off a bit..?! It reads to me that OP has been trained so thoroughly in being appeasing by her DH , she has naively tried to take on board everybodies perspective/opinion... even a thread sniper... MrsM , you have had alot of positivity , glean that out from the crap and take it on board...the more time you spend reading these forums you will get used to the stranger habits of the haters/snipers/trolls. You need to find some self esteem/confidence in your own self... I suspect your H has had his fingers in your head fiddling with your mind for so long you have lost sight of your sense of self x

anonacfr Sat 24-Nov-12 19:24:33

Why do moral relativists deny this very basic fact of life, as 'judgement'? It is not judgement, it is stating a fact. You really do reap what you sow. No amount of progressive theories will ever take this fact of life away.

I am sorry, but no. Choices have consequences but life is made of random chances that can't always be controlled. People can make 'good' choices and live 'good' lives and still have shit happen to them.
You can decide on your own behaviour and moral compass but you can't impose it on others.

InNeedOfBrandy Sat 24-Nov-12 19:27:05

^^ yes that and also wobbly what do you feel that you did to deserve a cunt who abused you then cheated on you and then left you? Was it a natural consequence of what you have done in your past hmm. Do you think people get cancer for being a bit of a bitch for instance? Or burgled because they were rude to the shop keeper?

quietlysuggests Sat 24-Nov-12 21:13:10

Oh dear Mrs M after all the support on here, you go and side with some man who just zoomed down to the thread to slag off women.
And you know, I think NOT having an affair with a married man DOES in fact make me a better person than someone who did.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Sat 24-Nov-12 21:20:24

one day anyone's DD could turn up at the door and say "I need help" like I have and where would they put their judgy pants then? It's easy to take the moral high ground and judge

hmm

I am speechless at this rudeness.

And then when you are called on it put yourself back into the martyr role?

Well bloody done.

MrsMelons Sat 24-Nov-12 21:20:37

Quietly I don't think it does - I think it means you have made better choices than some other people. You may have done things in your life that other people think are wrong but that doesn't make them better than you.

Some people don't actually have affairs with married men just for fun or with an intention of finding a man who is married in spite of what some posters seem to think - I think there are many people on this thread that have absolutely no idea about these situations. Of course there are many people who do target married men but that is not really relevant to this thread.

In an ideal world of course it is the right thing NOT to have an affair with a married man but what I don't understand is that the OP did this but it does not mean she deserves what she gets. It does mean she shouldn't be surprised this is how things turn out though.

OP - please do not think about the reasons behind why you are being treated like this - it was a long time ago and you need to make decisions about your relationship based on whether you are happy in it or not. No one deserves to be treated like this regardless of past mistakes. MN is a fantastic place for advice and you do have to take on board both sides of the views but never allow posters to abuse you via PMs - please report them!

AnyFucker Sat 24-Nov-12 21:21:16

woozley you happy with your input to this thread and how it panned out ?

got any more words of support for the OP?

no, I fucking thought not

Littleblue Sat 24-Nov-12 21:24:01

Oh christ.. this thread is dead in the water... OP , take the bits that make sense to you.... walk away.

NotQuintAtAllOhNo Sat 24-Nov-12 21:24:04

No, AF, actually, I think woozley is, OP took the bait beautifully.

JustFabulous Sat 24-Nov-12 21:27:35

I think AH meant no words of support, not that s/he wasn't happy with how the thread went barmy.

JustFabulous Sat 24-Nov-12 21:28:30

AF of course.

ZenNudist Sun 25-Nov-12 00:21:12

Mrs M if I were you I wouldn't hang about. Except to organise alternative arrangements that put you where he can't get at you. Stopping only to get as much of your stuff out as you can without raising alarm. Plus any evidence you can to show unreasonable controlling behaviour. Good luck.

OrbisNonSufficit Sun 25-Nov-12 00:33:20

Just in the interest of balance... There are two issues/questions in this thread:
1) Is OP in a crappy situation with her OH based on his behaviour and how she feels
2) Is there a moral issue associated with how OP got into her relationship - more divisive and not really related to point (1) unless you believe in karma or some other kind of divine vengeance

I'm staying out of the discussion on (2) but can't we agree that on (1) OP needs some support?

Charbon Sun 25-Nov-12 00:39:00

Most of us did agree on Point 1 and gave the OP lots of support.

OrbisNonSufficit Sun 25-Nov-12 00:48:50

Charbon I know. I've read the whole thread. But it got a bit angsty, hence my point.

ninah Sun 25-Nov-12 00:57:35

yup, agree that the current situation is definitely the issue
the ow stuff is a red herring, but then the op did make quite a feature of it
there's nothing really to keep you with this man, is there op, unless you enjoy not having to decide in starbucks

Fuckitthatlldo Sun 25-Nov-12 10:33:33

Really quietly? Do you honestly really believe that?

You are a 'better' person than everyone who's ever had an affair with a married man just because you have not?

How do you define 'better'? Have you never made a mistake you regretted? Who's to say that your mistake was 'worse' or 'better'? What if it came to light that someone like Marie Stopes, or Aung San Kyi had had an affair with a married man? Would you then be a 'better' person than them, despite all that they had accomplished?

I personally have never had an affair with a married man. I'm a recovering alcoholic though and have done many things I regret bitterly (some of which I can't even remember doing) whilst out of my mind on drink. I'm curious as to whether under your rules I now get to feel superior to others? Perhaps I am now as 'good' a person as you?

Because it must be nice, sitting up there, looking down on a sad and vulnerable stranger. Must make you feel really great about yourself.

MrsMorton Sun 25-Nov-12 11:13:57

Tentative wave hello and sorry. So much today to make me sad, I want to ask how to become less naive.

InNeedOfBrandy Sun 25-Nov-12 11:19:13

Experience Mrsmorton and even then. I am a naive person I take what people say as the truth and blindly trust that everyone has the same good intentions as me. I've been fucked over quite a lot and now am starting to listen to that voice in my head. Tbh I'd prefer to be naive then overly cynical and never trusting people, IMO people who don't trust don't trust you because they know what they themselves are like.

OrbisNonSufficit Sun 25-Nov-12 11:45:46

Mrsm Don't know if it's your sort of thing, but reading up on EQ/emotional intelligence helped me in terms of understanding (and trusting) my own instincts and reactions to situations. You (like everyone) will have some fairly powerful behaviour patterns learned back when you were a little kid - understanding those patterns and how your emotions play into them makes a big difference in breaking bad cycles e.g. why you have a need to please.

AnyFucker Sun 25-Nov-12 12:00:36

hello, MrsM

I am sorry you are having (another) bad day. I don't know how to make yourself "less naive", other than some individual counselling for yourself to work out why you seem so accepting of bad treatment and don't spot red flags.

If you mean by that, however, that you want to learn how to deal with your husband better...I don't recommend that course of action. My advice to you on that point is to take the steps you need to leave him and make your own life away from him. You can get help with that on here, from Women's Aid, from admitting to your friends and family the massive mistake you have made in marrying him and asking for their support and take it from there.

TeaMakesItToTheTop Sun 25-Nov-12 12:14:39

<waves back>

I also tend to take things people say to me as the truth but I do have a little voice in the back of my head that just asking 'why?' and 'what?' just to keep me on the right track. As in 'why did that person say or do that and what should I do?'. A counsellor will provide you with a safe space to explore your attitudes and approach but perhaps the place to start is why you believe you deserve the life you're living at the moment.

I do agree with AF that with you should be getting your exit plan together. Don't focus on anything else with regard to your relationship. Just get out.

waltermittymistletoe Sun 25-Nov-12 12:36:40

MrsM even recognising that your relationship is not normal is a big step.

I don't know that you'll become "less naive" but I do know that you will be able to leave this relationship and be happier out of it.

hopespringy Sun 25-Nov-12 12:54:38

wow, what a mess. Your guilt is keeping you tied.

what you did was wrong but I think you've 'paid' for it, you don't have to go on paying for the rest of your life.

Have a look at the Freedom Programme and click the link to see a group near you. I highly recommend this programme. I recommend this also because it is good to keep at the forefront of your mind info about what is going on in your marriage, as you will be feeling confused because of the constant daily bombardments (from him) that knock you off your centre.

Your guilt has also trussed you up like a turkey imo so re counselling have a look at BACP - 'find a therapist' link on the right hand side of the page. Draw up a list of therapists you like the look of, give them a call and see how you get on with talking to them. You have to click with a therapist so don't go with one you don't feel absolutely comfortable talking to. Don't worry about feeling shy/self-conscious - it is a therapist's job to use their skills to provide a comfortable and safe place for you to explore what's happening with you at the moment. They've also seen it all before so don't think you'll shock them in any way.

as for naive: it feels to me that you haven't progressed from the 22/24yo you were when you met him, almost that you are suspended at that developmental stage. My guess is that you haven't had a loving and supportive childhood (or you wouldn't have accepted such an appalling deal) and that can also arrest emotional development.

Whatever, you are on the right road to be questioning what's going on. You are beginning to wake up. What can seem a total disaster can actually be the caralyst for a far more fulfilling life than you thought you could have, so all is not lost. You've make some big mistakes and learnt some hard lessons - time to move on now.

Proudnscary Sun 25-Nov-12 16:42:15

Hey Mrs M - am sorry you are so sad. I'm back because I wanted to show you that posters here care about you, no matter what's been said in anger or frustration or despair or outrage from both sides.

It's kind of uncomfortable that you keep apologising because then it's like we are here to chastise or even absolve you but we're not.

You need and deserve support.

Wise words from last few posters.

I don't think anything other than ending your marriage will get you on the road to happiness.

AnyFucker Sun 25-Nov-12 17:07:04

proud, what are you on about...you always come back smile

Proudnscary Sun 25-Nov-12 19:07:48

I don't know what you're talking about

<sniffs>

grin

MrsMorton Mon 26-Nov-12 08:11:22

On Saturday we went to the pub, we have a neighbour who thinks a lot of himself and H thinks he fancies me (why wouldn't he, I am clearly irresistable hmm ) and there were lots of small children in there so neighbour keeps saying ooh that's going to be you next. When we got home H was really cross (he's not a very nice drunk and he'd had a few) because he thought I had said something to this neighbour

So frustrating. Lots of other little things like I was supposed to be cooking but we kept staying in the pub because other neighbours etc would turn up and buy a round which is fine, I enjoy that sort of evening as much as anyone but if I hadn't cooked or it had been shit, I would be hearing about it until next week.

Proudnscary Mon 26-Nov-12 09:10:41

I understand that you are venting on here. But if you actually want a response on this latest hellish episode then it's this. He is one of the most controlling men I've heard of on here. But any one of the examples you have given us of his unreasonable behaviour, and that is putting it mildly, is reason enough to get the hell out. He is sucking you of your spirit and he's robbing you of the best years of your life. Don't wait too long please.

InNeedOfBrandy Mon 26-Nov-12 09:21:07

Whats holding you back MrsM?

waltermittymistletoe Mon 26-Nov-12 09:38:49

Please leave. Nothing you've ever done makes you deserve this life.

MrsMorton Mon 26-Nov-12 09:44:31

I need to arrange somewhere to live and finances. That's all I think. I do genuinely think that I have stopped using the part of my brain that allows me to think for myself in domestic situations. At work I'm at the top of my game and getting better but at home I'm lost.

waltermittymistletoe Mon 26-Nov-12 10:01:57

That's what happens after years of systematic abuse. At work you're still allowed to be your real self.

And don't forget, at work you're just you. No baggage. At home he used the fact that you were the OW to keep you where you were, to make you believe he was your lot in life because of how you started.

Even posting here is a huge step because it means you know now that it's not ok. Sadly, some people never even reach that stage.

wannaBe Mon 26-Nov-12 10:34:24

For those sitting up there on the moral highground it's always worth remembering, there's almost certainly someone sitting above you.

People have affairs, sometimes people cheat and sometimes people are the OW/OM. While cheating is never justified it's also very rarely black and white. If it was as simple as all that then we wouldn't live in a society where roughly 60% of people (men and women) in relationships admit to cheating on their partners (and that's before we get to the ones that don't admit it.)

Op how you and your dh got together is irrelevant. If you are not happy what you need to do is question what you are going to do about it now. This isn't about retribution or punishment. This isn't even about not being surprised that it's ended this way. This is purely about the relationship you are in now and what you are going to do about it.

Proudnscary Mon 26-Nov-12 13:41:30

Why are you going over the 'moral highground' crap again WannaBe? And who are you talking to? confused. It's been established that a few posters a few pages back were straight talking and OP had some vile PMs but that a huge majority are supporting/rooting for OP and sticking around to listen and hold her hand, despite not approving of the way they got together.

MrsM - yes you have lost yourself. You can get yourself back though - so easily. I agree with Waltermitty that it's brilliant you are facing up to the truth as some women spend their entire lives under the thumb of such hideous men.

Finances and somewhere to live? Ok they are obviously big considerations but you have no kids, you have friends and family and you have a well paid job. It should be fairly easy for you to stay with someone or rent somewhere? Or do you mean you are uneasy about leaving the house/need to get savings etc tied up? Is it worth seeing a solicitor? Sorry if you already have and I've missed it upthread.

waltermittymistletoe Mon 26-Nov-12 13:42:36

Wannabe you're about 280 posts late!

oohlaalaa Mon 26-Nov-12 14:43:38

Re finances, when my friend got divorced, at about 30, she came away with practically nothing as she just wanted to get away from him as quickly as possible, and get the divorce all though, with minimal legal costs.

They had a business together, and her parents were guarantor for business loan, her priority was removing them as guarantor, and having the business all in her husbands name. The business was set up jointly, and included premises. She was concerned that if it got nasty, he would run up debts, and her parents would loose a lot of money.

She ended up starting again. She moved 300 miles north, to where her parents and sisters lived, got a job, and soon afterwards met a lovely man, who she's now married to with two daughters.

Okay, it doesn't always turn out like this, but if you want to get out, just get out, as money comes money goes.

MrsMorton Mon 26-Nov-12 14:46:20

Oohlah, thank you for that. It's not too far from my situation and whilst it's obviously shit, it helps that someone else has trod the ground before me.

TeaMakesItToTheTop Mon 26-Nov-12 15:58:48

Get yourself to a solicitor to understand handing over the business and extracting yourself/your family.

Talk to your bank about protecting joint debts/cards.

And rightmove will give you ideas on cost and locations and what's available.

If needs be, you can stay in a travelodge until you've got somewhere.

You could do that in two or three days.

Your next choice is to either leave the house and don't tell him you've gone, or to tell him you're going and leave the house. Do you have your plan yet?

Is there anything else holding you back?

I hope this helps you get your head in the right place. My DS and I had nothing. Just deck chairs, pans and toys until my work colleagues heard about it and rustled up beds, a sofa, a telly and some boxes. I remember it as the calmest and most relaxing couple of months of my life because I was free of all crap.

tadpoles Mon 26-Nov-12 16:43:14

"My brother mentioned that a friend of his said I was fit and I knew IMMEDIATELY that the comment would cause friction and sure enough he sulked for two days before bringing it up with me. "

All in now clear - he realises that he is a difficult, controlling bugger and that he is lucky to have you at all. From the sounds of it you did his previous wife a huge favour by taking him off her hands. I would be very grateful if I were her.

He won't change. As you were quite young (and possibly inexperienced/naive) when you met him, you probably didn't spot the red flags. He is obviously a lot older than you and probably worked out that he would be able to seduce you and also ensure that you would carry more than your fair share of the burden of guilt. He probably wouldn't have been able to have any success with a more experienced woman or a woman whose radar was more closely honed. You were probably flattered because he was older and came on strong, and maybe also felt that, because he was already attached, he must REALLY like you in order to take that kind of risk.

I remember being in my early 20s and having a massive crush on a man who was married in his early thirites. I just couldn't understand why he didn't go for it as I simply had no concept of the reality of having a relationship with a married man and all the issues that go with it. That simply didn't enter my head. So what you did, from your perspective, was understandable. He, on the other hand, knew precisely what he was doing.

Like I say, he knows that he will find it difficult to attract another woman - especially a single one of childbearing age !!!!

Also, if you ever want children, you might just kick yourself that you wasted the best years on your life on someone who is a miserable git.

Just saying.

tadpoles Mon 26-Nov-12 16:47:15

I recognise very well all the signs of a controlling type of man who wants his partner to be miserable as my father was like that. He was particularly nasty to my mother while he was having one of his many affairs - it's projection of their own guilt onto the innocent party and also, by turning the innocent party into the baddie, it gives them them the illusion that, as the wife is so flawed, then it's ok to be screwing someone else.

Honestly, a normal man wouldn't still be banging on about how you got together in the first place.....that's just nuts. Are you sure it isn't HIM who is having an affair?!

AnyFucker Mon 26-Nov-12 17:54:25

It's time for you to get professional legal advice

Get a lawyer

Get packing

Get the hell out

You are allowed to save yourself, you know

Best of luck

oohlaalaa Mon 26-Nov-12 19:41:55

Personally, I would sort out as much as you can without telling him. Get the removal men in when he's at work, and not around to manipulate. I wouldn't pre warn him, but maybe that's just me. It saves the confrontation on moving out.

MrsMorton Tue 27-Nov-12 14:30:20

I have been thinking on this and I think I want him to leave and me to remain in the house. I think (hope?) he is rational enough to maintain our financial responsibilities to my parents, not least because he will benefit from them in the longer term. I don't know how to go about this though. Do I tell him I'm not happy and I want him to leave? Then he will expect to be able to work things out. FFS I can't even ask him what time he will be home from work without him saying "why do you want to know", if he's going out for a run he will question me if I ask him where he is going. It's driving me potty.

I stayed away with work last night and I'm just bracing myself for a hard time when he gets in.

waltermittymistletoe Tue 27-Nov-12 14:39:49

Why do you want to stay in the house Mrs?

I think the decision to leave is absolutely the right one. But I'm not sure why he would agree to moving out since it will be you ending the relationship?

MrsMorton Tue 27-Nov-12 14:43:58

I know, that's the problem. Although we own it jointly, I pay the mortgage and he wouldn't be able to afford it on his own. If he stayed then I don't know whether I would be able to pay the mortgage and rent somewhere for myself whereas if I stayed, I would happily help him with rent/deposit somewhere else. I could afford to buy him out of the house I think in the longer term.

I don't think he would agree to moving out, I was just wondering if there was anyone with any experience of how to go about this.
He pays the electricity, council tax, gas and water and I pay the mortgage and buy groceries and pay into savings. That's how we split things.

InNeedOfBrandy Tue 27-Nov-12 14:44:55

MrsM I know your going to lose your home that you love ect and I know it's going to be hard. I know I'm not just saying it I know.

I really don't think he will leave, you could try it but I think the nastiness and control will be stepped up and you'l never break free. Or it will end in you calling the police and him stalking you and a never ending cycle of abuse/him moving in 3 doors down/letters/threats/emotional blackmail/real blackmail/threatening not to maintain financial resp to your parents/threatening to tell work/

I really hope he hasn't got any inappropriate photos of you.

I really think the best thing to do is pack your shit and get out of there. Imagine how it will be to have your own house, decorated how you want, no ghosts from the past and no way of him just turning up on the door step.

waltermittymistletoe Tue 27-Nov-12 15:49:02

Well if we won't leaven (and I don't think he will) you stop paying the mortgage if that's what it takes to get free and safe.

A couple of months non-payment won't cause a huge amount of damage in the long run. It will give you time and money for a deposit on somewhere and to see a solicitor so you can get the ball rolling to sell the property.

Your priority must be to get away from this man. First and foremost.

I genuinely wish you the very best of luck with this. You need to see a solicitor. Tomorrow if possible.

waltermittymistletoe Tue 27-Nov-12 15:50:24

*well if he won't leave

Cannot type today!

Bettyintheburbs Tue 27-Nov-12 20:53:12

Just go. Houses aren't homes if we're not happy in them. Lawyers can sort it all out without you continuing to live there. Your happiness matters more than anything, so get packing.

MrsMorton Tue 27-Nov-12 21:31:40

Betty, I know deep down that's what I need to do. Thank you. It's still not easy though, I know that's what will happen though.

Inertia Tue 27-Nov-12 21:35:48

If you're not worried about being in immediate danger of physical violence, your best bet would be to see a solicitor before agreeing to anything. Your husband has been messing with your head for so long that you have no confidence in your own judgement on home/ relationship matters. Do you have a trusted friend or relative that could come along to solicitors meetings and take notes for you?

I certainly wouldn't go down the road of defaulting on the mortgage, because that's certainly something that could come back and bite you.

Do you really want to stay in the house? Or will it just turn into something else which allows him control over you after you've split? Being financially independent is an advantage that many women in your position don't have , so don't waste the opportunities that this provides you with.

I'm glad you've made the decision to protect your wellbeing. Yes, you were both wrong to have the affair and break up the family- but that mistake doesn't have to become a lifelong cascade of guilt and suffering emotional abuse; you're making great strides with ending the mistake.

Charbon Tue 27-Nov-12 23:44:29

I'd second the advice about going to a solicitor. Can you get a recommendation through work and try to see someone during work time or during a lunch break?

I honestly think that talking to someone who is paid to advise you about your legal rights will strengthen your resolve. You've got more than enough grounds for unreasonable behaviour. If he won't leave and you decide to, AFAIK you can get a legal charge put on the house to protect it as an asset of the marriage, but a lawyer would advise more.

oohlaalaa Thu 29-Nov-12 11:22:52

On paper it makes sense for him to move out, but is he a reasonable man?

Do you think you could move out, and serve him with legal papers for the property to be sold?

Selling the property would be a clean break.

Of course you don't deserve it FFS!

I think you need to have a good long chat with him and tell him that you can't live like this. I am sure that there are insecurities on both sides due to the way the relationship started but they need to be addressed properly by both of you.

Read more now. God he sounds vile! You did his ex a service...

MrsMorton Thu 29-Nov-12 12:54:55

I'm not certain he would be reasonable about this. I have a plan that I think would suit us both from a practical perspective.

I had to re-read this thread today to strengthen my resolve because he's being nice and it reminds me of some really good times we had.

Then I remember him storming off when we were on holiday in Mexico because I had men as friends on Facebook. Obviously I don't have a Facebook account now, (I don't really want one in any case).

waltermittymistletoe Thu 29-Nov-12 15:18:42

(I don't really want one in any case)

But that's beside the point, isn't it?!

I'm glad you've strenghtened your resolve because it's all too easy for them to suck you back in with a little kindness. They pull you donw that much that scraps of decency make you think it's not so bad.

He can probably sense you pulling away and that's why he's doing it.

Honestly, he's an utter bastard and even utter bastards can be nice some of the time.

Have you spoken to a solicitor? You're doing really well.

MrsMorton Thu 29-Nov-12 15:40:38

Not yet. Work has been bonkers but I have emailed some counsellors so looking forward to checking my emails when I'm back in the office.

Need to stay strong and remember the bad times as well. If I said to him about FB he would probably say "well have an account then" but like you said that's not the point. He doesn't get it.

I actually got the slow train home yesterday because I didn't really want to go home.

waltermittymistletoe Thu 29-Nov-12 17:04:15

Well done for contacting counsellors. It will be really good for you.

There's no big rush on the solicitor either so you do it in your own time!

I think it's so sad that you feel that way about your own home. And it's things like that that make me sure leaving is the right thing for you!

Just hold on to the thought that life will be so much better when you're free of this stuff. smile

Wishing you the strength you need MrsM

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