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I told him it was over - he handed me a suicide note.

(104 Posts)
Kixicle Sat 17-Nov-12 12:52:38

I didn't want to say anything in front of the kids, I had been putting it off because I knew in my heart that I couldn't make it work. So he wormed it out of me by asking what was wrong and pushing even after I told him to please wait until the DC were picked up to go out.

He phoned his mum in front of me, having said he didn't want the DC to go out because he would "do something stupid" if they weren't around. His father had already left, so we did a charade while he picked them up - I guess my MIL told him when he got hte DC back to their house.

He kept saying he didn't want it to be over, and then a little while after they left he came and handed me a suicide note. I stopped him going out and managed to talk him down - he's sat in a kind of stupor in the living room now while I'm upstairs. (I can hear him every time he moves.)

I don't know what to do. I want the DC, to hold them and hug them because I still don't know what happens next. I didn't want it to be like this, and now I just feel lost and trapped here, because I can't leave him alone. I'm sure deep down he knows that. He won't talk about what we do next, won't talk at all. I'm scared to call his parents and tell them he wants to kill himself, but I have to don't I? I just want the DC to be okay and not see their father like this.

It's all gone horribly wrong and I'm just totally lost.

ImperialBlether Sat 17-Nov-12 12:57:31

I would call NHS Direct and ask for help. He clearly needs medical help.

Does he suffer from depression? Does he work and have friends? Is he a decent bloke or is he generally manipulative?

Why do you want to end the relationship?

BerylStreep Sat 17-Nov-12 12:58:06

So you are alone in the house with your suicidal DH who you have just split up from?

Phone 999 for an ambulance for him. He needs medical help. You need to protect yourself and get out of there in case he does anything stupid.

He might be trying to manipulate you, or he may be serious, you can work that out later. But you need to get professional help NOW.

Doha Sat 17-Nov-12 12:59:19

Phone the police, give them the suicide note..they will take this seriously and get him help. You MUST let his parents know what he is threatening
You cannot be held to ransom like this.

Bubblenut Sat 17-Nov-12 12:59:28

He handed you a suicide note? That's attention seeking and guilt tripping as it makes him a very bad person. It's most likely an empty threat - honestly, think about why he HANDED you a note.

He sounds pathetic and manipulative

Doyouthinktheysaurus Sat 17-Nov-12 13:00:53

He handed you the note to manipulate you into changing your mind and staying with youangry Don't give him the benefit of getting his own way!

He's a grown man, he is responsible for his actions, you aren't! Think about yourself and the children and do what's right for you, your DH is a prat and needs to grow up!

You aren't trapped, you rally aren't! Whatever your plans were before shouldn't change. Your 'h' needs to reflect on his own situation and get help himself if he genuinely feels suicidal, but I suspect strongly he is manipulating you to get what he wants!

Bubblenut Sat 17-Nov-12 13:01:10

Don't pander to his tantrum. By phoning places like the NHS on his behalf is giving the attention he wants. That's a stupid idea

Phone the police, hand over the note and close the door behind you as he leaves.

MrsTomHardy Sat 17-Nov-12 13:02:49

Sounds awful OP but you cannot stay with this man.

I'm sorry I don't have any real advice but I would do as others have suggested. Can't you get his parents to come and pick him up and let them deal with him and you get your dc's back??

Kixicle Sat 17-Nov-12 13:03:11

He has depression but it is untreated. That's one of the big problems, but it's also that we have grown apart. I was young when we met and have grown up a lot more, and he is controlling at times.

He has a lot of problems, but manipulates in therapy so he can be signed off the system. He said he wants to change now, that he would sort his health out, but I can't do that again. It's been 6 years of this and my heart isn't in it, and it's not fair to string him along.

I called NHS direct and they said all they could offer was advice unless he was actively harming himself. He doesn't seem to be doing that at the moment but still won't speak to me, and I don't know where to go from here. I hadn't wanted it to rush like this, i had hoped it could be more amiable with us working together.

Right now I'm just so worried about him and the DC. He walks past and shoots me evils, and when I suggested he stay at his parents so he wasn't alone he just said "it's a bit late for that".

I feel horrible.

bitsofmeworkjustfine Sat 17-Nov-12 13:03:51

Spot on bubblenut

My Dsis ex threatend to kill himself when they split, so she told the police, they went round two days later, by thier schedule not hers.

he siad to the police.... if shes that bothered about me, why did it take her two days to call you out...

the policeman said... she isnt bothered, mate!

dont get me wrong, its tough slpitting up, but at least you know there is a day when it will start to get better, when you are in a shit relationship its only ever going to be bad

MrsTomHardy Sat 17-Nov-12 13:03:59

Also wanted to add the majority of people who talk of suicide never do it!!!!

The ones who commit suicide never usually speak of it sad

TheMagicToyshop Sat 17-Nov-12 13:04:26

I actually think phoning the police, on non emergency 101 number, is a good idea. If he's serious they will help, if he's trying to manipulate you it will call his bluff. Either way it takes the responsibility off you.

Proudnscary Sat 17-Nov-12 13:05:10

Replying so that you don't feel alone but have no words of wisdom other than that from reading on here it seems surprisingly common for men to threaten suicide at this point - esp if they have abusive tendencies - in order to regain control.

And it's worked because you feel unable to leave now sad.

I am so sorry you are going through such a dreadfully sad and stressful time.

Others will come along to give you advice soon

x

Proudnscary Sat 17-Nov-12 13:05:32

Wow X post times a million sorry

HecatePropylaea Sat 17-Nov-12 13:06:15

He's being very manipulative.

I suggest you ignore him. Chuck the note in the bin and ignore him.

If he does anything, call for an ambulance. If he becomes dangerous, call the police.

Don't worry about him not speaking to you. That's all part of his attempt to emotionally blackmail you.

Just carry on with your day as if he isn't there.

And don't feel horrible. When someone decides to try to manipulate and emotionally blackmail you - they should lose all sympathy from you, imo!

dequoisagitil Sat 17-Nov-12 13:12:08

Call his parents and follow your original plan.

If he's manipulating you, which seems likely, he won't go through with suicide.
If he isn't manipulating you, you cannot help him, only professionals can. Tell his parents to call in the mental health professionals.

It's just putting off the final confrontation to back down now - you're not going to suddenly want to try again, are you? He's just hoping to cow you into sticking around and STFU - and that cannot last. You have to look after your dc and they don't need to see this, get them out.

Doyouthinktheysaurus Sat 17-Nov-12 13:13:54

You need to focus on yourself and your dc's, he should not be your concern.

I know it sounds harsh but he is almost certainly doing it to keep you where he wants you!

Get angry, don't let him manipulate you! Relationships end, it's a fact of life. People change, life changes, whilst its never easy to break up, sometimes it happens and he needs to accept that!

I am very angry at him on your behalf! What a twat!

RandallPinkFloyd Sat 17-Nov-12 13:15:53

What a manipulative wanker angry

Exactly the kind of stunt stbXh would pull when we first split up.

After a firm talking to on here I called his bluff. He'd disappeared telling me he was going to end it all then stopped answering his phone.

I text him and said "right, if you don't reply in the next 10 minutes I'll ring your parents and tell them you've told me you're going to kill yourself. Surprisingly he replied!.

Seriously I fell for this kind of crap for years. It took MN to make me realise just how obviously fake it is. I could kick myself for being so gullible.

Call his parents, call the police or call and ambulance. Either way absolve yourself of any responsibility.

That's the crux it really is. He's trying to manipulate you. If you take yourself out of the equation you take all that power and control away from him.

You'll be amazed how quickly he'll change track. Just be prepared though, next will come the anger for not playing his game.

You need to get him out of your house and put some distance between you.

You CAN do it, stay strong, do not waver. He'll shit his pants, I can guarantee it!

HoolioHallio Sat 17-Nov-12 13:23:16

Manipulative, abusive behaviour.

Do not let him do this to you. Ring 999 and tell them that he has threatened to commit suicide and ask for police. When they arrive, give them the note and walk away. Closing the door behind you.

GeekLove Sat 17-Nov-12 13:26:49

Those that shout the loudest about suicide don't tend to do it except by accident. I know from experience it is those you don't expect eh

GeekLove Sat 17-Nov-12 13:28:28

Stupid I phone
What I meant to say was it was those who didnt speak about suicide who did go through with it sad

AnyaKnowIt Sat 17-Nov-12 13:28:43

Agree with everyone else, he is being very manipulative.

Phone for the police saying that he has handed you a suicide note, let them take care of him.

senua Sat 17-Nov-12 13:35:21

Keep the note, or at least a copy of it, in case there is ever any dispute about who is suitable to have custody.

winterhill Sat 17-Nov-12 13:36:40

I would be concerned tbh because I know of two occasions somebody has carried out there threat.
One was in my mum's town which is miles from me and it was my mum's neighbour's son that carried out the threat.
The other was in my colleagues son when the DIL ended the relationship.

I know some are saying it is emotional blackmail and take no notice. I agree that it is emotional blackmail but I couldn't/ shrug it off that easy.

winterhill Sat 17-Nov-12 13:39:42

Keep the note, or at least a copy of it, in case there is ever any dispute about who is suitable to have custod
Senua Just because he may be mentally unstable now doesn't mean he will be in the future.

An ex DH of a colleague tried to use that against her after she had been suicidal and he tried to get full custody of the children. THe ex wife had treatment and came back stronger. The judge praised her for doing so well and repremanded the ex for trying to smear his ex wife. The ex W got full custody.

DontmindifIdo Sat 17-Nov-12 13:43:44

He doesn't plan to kill himself, if he did, he'd be dead by now.

RandallPinkFloyd Sat 17-Nov-12 13:47:28

I'm so sorry for your losses winterhill but I don't think anyone has said take no notice.

What pretty much everyone has said is don't take responsibility yourself. Two very different things.

OP please don't cave in to this, he isn't your responsibility. You and your dc are your priority.

Call whoever you think best to take care of it but don't let him control you like this. It's cruel, selfish and nasty.

Kixicle Sat 17-Nov-12 13:49:44

I have phoned the police, they are sending someone round. I took a photo of the note - to prove it to myself as much as anything. I don't want to take the DC from him. When he gets better (I hope he can get better for himself) he is perfectly capable of being a good father.

But not my husband. Not after he just blamed me for "not trying". I am devastated, but still angry at that.

amillionyears Sat 17-Nov-12 13:52:49

op, you have done a couple of other threads on here this week.
Do you want them linked?
At the end of the last one, I said he might do something manipulative,as he is very cunning.
Like others I cant guarantee he isnt serious. I dont know. He probably had this idea up his sleeve if he needed it, if you said you were going to leave him.
Call the police,call his parents.

amillionyears Sat 17-Nov-12 13:53:32

x post.

RandallPinkFloyd Sat 17-Nov-12 13:55:14

You've done exactly the right thing Kixicle. Just make sure you tell them exactly what happened and that you don't want him in your home.

Please try not to take all the things he's saying to heart. Easier said than done I know, I've been there, still am there almost a year later.

He is saying whatever he can to get you to change your mind. Don't be sucked in, keep that anger, it's what will keep you going.

Once you see beyond the manipulation it's like a fog has been lifted.

amillionyears Sat 17-Nov-12 13:56:17

Good luck Kixicle.

HissyByName Sat 17-Nov-12 14:08:17

This IS manipulation, but if you call the police every time, he'll soon get the message that YOU are not going to be the one that jumps, the boys (and girls) in blue will be.

They'll get mighty pissed off with him if they see that he's doing this for effect.

Stick to your plan. Put your DC and yourself first. You have the right - no matter what - to end any relationship you wish to.

Kixicle Sat 17-Nov-12 14:39:23

Okay, he's gone to the local mental health unit to talk about stuff. He denied it when I went to let them in, but of course I had the note, and in the end he agreed to go.

He's staying at his parents' house tonight when he comes out I think. The plan is for the DC to come back here, and my dad is coming round so I'm not alone.

Thank you everyone for your kind words, I've felt so up and down today! I guess this is the start of the next stage of things. It's sinking in now just how much is going to have to change.

tribpot Sat 17-Nov-12 14:44:44

He's likely to manipulate in the mental health unit as you've noted he has form for that. Make sure you have a definite plan that involves him being elsewhere tonight. If - god forbid - he is serious about suicide he should not be anywhere near your children.

CuriousMama Sat 17-Nov-12 14:46:39

Just read your messages. Am so glad it's getting sorted, keep strong.

HoolioHallio Sat 17-Nov-12 14:49:28

You are so bloody brave OP - it took 5 years from exs first suicide/murder threats before i actually got away for good. Stay strong!

emess Sat 17-Nov-12 14:52:35

My DH attempted suicide. I went to see a counsellor. She convinced me that what he did was not my responsibility. She also said "if he wants to kill himself then he will do it regardless of anything you do". That was a weight off my mind and that is my message to you. Remember that your first responsibility is to yourself and then your DCs. Sorry you are going through this, but you are stronger than you realise.

amillionyears Sat 17-Nov-12 14:54:26

Look after yourself Kixicle.
Hope he now gets the help he needs.

stoney1215 Sun 18-Nov-12 05:42:48

first thing you should do is have him placed in a mental facility for his , and your safety . then notify his parents of the situation . if the note was sincere than he definitely needs to get mental help . it is also not safe for you to be in the same house with someone who is in a suicidal state of mind . how many times have you seen that someone killed their family and then killed their self ??? when someone is thinking about killing their self they obviously are not in a state of mind where they value human life .

you should definitely inform his parents . tell them everything . he will need all the support he can get . you do too . it should also stop his parents from thinking that you are abandoning him because he is having mental issues .

if the note was an attempt by him to manipulate you , a couple of days in a mental facility should make understand just how serious suicide is . it should also stop any further attempts by him to manipulate you . it will also prove to you that you are not being unfair or unreasonable in your decision to leave him .

50shadesofgreyhair Sun 18-Nov-12 06:29:27

Lots of good advice on here. I'm a MH nurse, and work a lot in A&E, and sometimes people do carry out their suicide threat; so it should never be brushed off. However, it does sound as if perhaps he has made this threat to blackmail you emotionally.

You've done the right thing by calling the police, for his sake and most importantly here, yours. Professionals can and will help him as necessary, and now you've flagged this up with the police and he's spent time with MH, you've done your bit. You've let the right people know in case he's serious. Although he thinks he's duped MH before, I doubt he has, they will have records of his previous appts and a picture will emerge for them to deal with.

The hard days I think though are ahead, because if it was an attempt at manipulating you into staying in the marriage he's backed himself in a corner, so will probably come out all guns blazing.

You will have to be strong and detach from him and bounce his problems back to him to get yourself out of this sad destructive relationship. Just refuse to engage. The issues are his, and his alone. His happiness/sadness is his and you are not responsible for either. I would suggest that you explain everything to his parents so they see the background of the relationship problems and make it clear to them in a kind but firm way, that it is over, and from now on your priority is the kids, and their son is going to have to be their priority not yours.

He will probably pull a lot of tricks out of the bag to try and get you to engage, so detaching will be hard, but if you refuse to engage with him, he will get the message.

Stay strong, you did the right thing.
Saffysmum x

amillionyears Sun 18-Nov-12 07:29:04

Can I ask you something, 50shadesofgreyhair, is what NHS Direct said, their normal standard advice?
Because it seems a little strange to me, that for a medical problem, the police were prepared to act in the first instance, but not the medical profession?

50shadesofgreyhair Sun 18-Nov-12 08:20:07

Hi amillionyears, OP said that all NHS direct could offer was advice, unless he was actually harming himself (I think I've got that right, after re-reading the post). Obviously, I don't know what advice they were going to offer, but yes, that would be a pretty standard response in my experience.

amillionyears Sun 18-Nov-12 08:30:36

But if a GP was called, in this sort of situation, something could be done. That all seems a bit difficult to understand.

Kixicle Sun 18-Nov-12 08:51:59

Hi all. Things went up and down so much yesterday.
My DF came round and sat with me and advised me to call my PIL. They were obviously very worried about H, who hadn't called them (signal was bad).

He was talked down by the team there, and yes, the suicide note was a cry for attention. He came back here last night - this sounds really stupid of me and it is bloody hard to detach emotionally, but because I have seizures, I can't see a way for me to live independently at the moment without considerable planning. We have both taken our rings off. (that happened yesterday in fact)

He still doesn't want it to end, and is being very nice about it all. The nurse practitioner yesterday talked him down and he is going to go on anti-depressants at a higher and faster dose than he did before - when he makes an appointment. He wants me to ring up and make it for him. Initially it was going to be an appointment on Monday, now he wants a regular appointment and won't mind if it's by the end of the week. I'm seeing a pattern start to emerge here...

It's hard. I can see the mind games happening, undermining the fact that I don't want to be married to him any more, but I got to this point and I know this is where I want to be. I'm not going to back down. I know that this barrage won't stop all the time we live together, but at the moment I'm not exactly sure how to go about living independently given that I need supervision with the DC as they are so young! He - in my mind at least - clearly isn't fit to have full custody of them, but he has proven how slick he can be.

Yesterday he was "broken" sobbing and saying he wanted to die. He came back last night and was back to his old self. How can anyone make that kind of transformation? I have roller-coastered considerably, but then, I had support the whole day from a friend and I was the one who wanted out.

It's hard to keep this in mind when he's there and planning family outings - for the DC, naturally - and I feel guilty for being so cynical, but then, fucking hell! Of course I'm cynical! His behaviour is so... the overall picture is totally insincere!

I have no idea what he said to his parents last night. They didn't really want to talk to me. I know I've probably burned bridges there which I will regret - they live in the same town and see the DC a few times a week, where my family (and friends) are further afield. My DF knows that his work will probably send him abroad in the coming weeks and my DM lives 300 miles away and is currently going through divorce proceedings herself.

Honestly, I still can't believe that yesterday actually happened, and now H wants everything to go back to normal! Having hated even the mention of counselling or the idea of me psycho-analysing him until now, because this nurse practitioner advised it, he wants to do it - though I would have to go in with an open mind, hmm

I'm seeing a friend tomorrow, so I'll be able to talk to everything with her and hopefully sort out what's going on in my head. But - and bloody hell! He just came up (DD runs up the stairs atm) and mentioned a book voucher left over from our wedding and mentioned getting a joint book and was deflated when I said we should get something for the DC. He doesn't think I'm serious, does he? Arse.

amillionyears Sun 18-Nov-12 09:04:47

I think he knows you are serious.
I think he knows quite a lot of things actually.
And that is what bothers and scares him.
He is emotionally cleverer and intelligently cleverer than those who are trying to help and treat him.

I dont know who can help with your independent living.
Your GP might be the first port of call?

It is a shame about your ILs. I did wonder which way they would jump about it all. Hopefully they will still be helpful to you.

Letsmakecookies Sun 18-Nov-12 09:05:48

I had an x who had 'depression' and kept telling me he was suicidal, in fact he could not do housework, a job, take the children out, be expected to have responsibility for anything, I could not tell him his behaviour was unacceptable, argue with him - in fact it was a great get out of jail free card. At times when he came home he had me go upstairs early to bed so he could have space, otherwise he would harm himself either by binge drinking or worse. The worst thing is his shrink told him to tell someone when he felt like that and I was chosen. Lucky me. I was too scared to breathe in case I annoyed him.

It is no way to live. It is hugely abusive. It is blackmail. It is a really low thing to do.

Your H made a transformation from suicidal to his old self, because it worked. Because you are a kind person with feelings and he is in control. He feels he has taught you a lesson and let every one else know how unreasonable you are by manipulating the situation.

At the least, you need to set down boundaries because he has just wiped all of yours away. Best would be to get some space and evaluate whether you want to go through with the split, and I would advise don't hang around if you do.

HissyByName Sun 18-Nov-12 09:20:27

Id agree, don't hang about, get leverage from the new support he has and know that he has access to every agency possible.

The longer you stay, the more he'll lean on you (crush)

This man is determined to rule you by fear. Don't let him.

Get your freedom blinkers on an d don't stop till he's in your past.

Yokel Sun 18-Nov-12 09:26:35

OP, don't fall for the old 'talk him down' bullshit. Your H isn't standing on a ledge - metaphorical or otherwise. Has he lost control, or is he putting on a performance? I think we can guess the answer....

HermioneE Sun 18-Nov-12 09:38:18

Yesterday he was "broken" sobbing and saying he wanted to die. He came back last night and was back to his old self. How can anyone make that kind of transformation?

He can do it because look how well it's worked. Lots of attention from professionals and you, and no negative consequences for him to deal with. You're still there, he's still there, your DC are still there, and he doesn't even have a follow up appointment to worry about yet.

I don't have any suggestions to offer I'm afraid, but that sentence of yours just cried out to me that you're not yet seeing how manipulative he's being.

Best of luck OP, sounds like the sooner you can leave the better.

HappyTurquoise Sun 18-Nov-12 10:00:37

OP, you say you need someone with you because of your seisures. This is not a reason to stay with your H. He is not a suitable, responsible adult to be caring for you or your DCs.
We have a relative who was trapped in a manipulative relationship for years. It started with suicide threats and similar, and escalated. It took a terrible turn when he drove up a motorway the wrong way, caused a horrible crash and yet he survived. He was put on strong drugs which virtually paralysed him, and sent back to her, she was made responsible for him. She was trapped with him for a further 14 years. Eventually her extended family stepped in to help her and her H went back to live with his mother and she stayed with a cousin until she was sorted out. This is an extreme case, but there have been a lot of people saying your H will recover. He might not.

Is there anyone else, a cousin, a friend, who you could move in with, or who would call your H's parents and get them to live with them? For his sake as well as yours, he needs to break this pattern of manipulation.

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Sun 18-Nov-12 10:08:45

Is the house yours, or is it in joint names? The most important thing to progress with is removing his right to inhabit the house as soon as possible (if you are who I think you are it's your house, isn't it?) on the grounds that he is abusive to you.

RandallPinkFloyd Sun 18-Nov-12 10:09:52

He's got everyone exactly where he wants them and he knows it. His plan completely worked.

I can't advise you on how you go about living independently as I don't know anything about your condition or what help you currently have but at the moment your H is more than aware that you need him.

He absolutely knows that you won't throw him out.

There's only one way to show him he's wrong. And that's to show him he's wrong!

Get an emergency appointment with your GP, tell him/her exactly what is going on and tell them that you need help as you are now living alone with your dc.

You CAN do it.

Kixicle Sun 18-Nov-12 10:23:05

We rent, and the house is in both of our names. Because we don't work (I get ESA and he recieves carer's allowance - paid into my bank account as he doesn't have one) most of the income is in my name.

If I go, he has to start over with claiming things. I am going to call the CAB when I can and get some more advice. It's starting to sink in just how much this can't be the slow, easy-on-the-DC split that I wanted. sad

RandallPinkFloyd Sun 18-Nov-12 10:37:25

Whatever he has do do about his claims are not your concern at all.

The split won't be easy on the dc, they never are, but by letting him drag it out you are making it more complicated and confusing for them.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but when I was in a similar situation I needed a bit of an arse kicking to make me see sense.

You are their stability. You have to make them feel safe and secure. You can do that by telling them that their daddy doesn't live with you anymore but that you both still love them just as much and are still a family. They need definites not maybes.

He is not a healthy person for them to be around at the moment and seeing all this is really not good for them.

Look after you and your dc. He is an adult, he can look after himself. If he can't his parents must be the ones to step in not you.

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Sun 18-Nov-12 10:42:52

My ex was ExACTLY the same. Pulled the same suicide stunt when I finished it. Every time I'd be ready to finish it he'd pull it, eventually after 6 years I plucked up the courage (after seeing his mum go through the same with his dad and bring up kids through it) and did it. After a few sleepless nights of hiding keys locking doors getting his friends and family involved he did nothing. Months after he admitted it was a game to get me back - what sort of spineless arse does that to his family?!

Now clearly that's mine not yours, but what I'm saying is its not a reason to waste your life hoping he'll get better, he won't it's a game to manipulate. Stand strong, get the relevant help for him but if you don't want to be with him don't let it stop you.

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Sun 18-Nov-12 11:21:10

Remember also that you have every right to dump an unsatisfactory partner, even if it hurts his feelings. No one owes anyone a couple-relationship, and people who get dumped should simply suck it up - ie not become violent or threaten suicide.

amillionyears Sun 18-Nov-12 13:45:41

SolidGold "people who get dumped should simply suck it up - ie not become violent or threaten suicide". Sadly, that is quite often not the reality that people have to try and cope and live with.

Kixicle Sun 18-Nov-12 14:17:53

So, today seems to be "denial day". He's told me that he will get help but he "needs" me to make the phone call and book him an appointment with the GP. I have told him that I don't feel different just because he has said this - he has told me that whatever I think, in his mind he is doing it for me.

I don't want to start arguing with him at the moment because the DC are around, and tomorrow I am going out with a friend and will be able to more easily work out my next steps.

He has said "I love you" in passing a few times today, to which I haven't responded. I want to be able to speak to someone - probably at the council as well - before I start things in earnest. It's so frustrating that this all kicked off when the CAB and other legal outlets were closed. And then today he's been in the living room all day and I've had no space to go off by myself and call helplines. I should have done this yesterday but my head just wasn't there.

I know I'm probably doing everything wrong, but I'm still just trying to keep my head clear. He's really playing the contrite act down to a tee - he told me earlier that he knows he's been treating me "like scum...no. not scum, but like a child" for about three years. The thing is, apologies have been enough to placate me until now. But...I just don't love him any more, and the trust has completely gone. I'm biding my time until tomorrow, when DS is at school and one of my friends will be here.

BerylStreep Sun 18-Nov-12 14:32:40

I agree, it sounds like he has been very manipulative. I don't believe he was 'talked down' at all - I think he realised that the game was up, and he had to agree to make a GP appointment in order to get out of the MH Unit. I suspect that if the MH Unit had really thought he was suicidal, he would have been sectioned. So see it for what it was - a manipulative stunt to stay together.

And so far, it has worked. He is back home pretending it never happened.

The need to have someone around to care for you complicates matters, but please don't think you are bound to him because of that. There must be some other way.

BerylStreep Sun 18-Nov-12 14:34:18

I agree, he needs to make his calls himself, not you.

Can you go out for a walk this afternoon to get some space?

tribpot Sun 18-Nov-12 14:44:04

He doesn't "need" you to make the call to his GP, he needs you to stay invested in his drama. After you make the call he will "need" you to go with him to his appointments. And before you know it you'll be back on the merry-go-round.

Look after yourself first, OP. I don't think it's a coincidence that he escalated this when he knew the agencies you might turn to for help to escape would be closed.

ErikNorseman Sun 18-Nov-12 15:13:15

You are entitled to an assessment of needs under the community care act. If you require support at home in order to keep your dc safe you may get it (no promises) but you are legally entitled to the assessment.

amillionyears Sun 18-Nov-12 15:16:24

"he has told me that whatever I think, in his mind he is doing it for me".
The trouble with that statement is, it is a shame that he is not doing it all for himself. And he is only doing stuff now hopefully, because he has been somewhat forced to, because of the suicide note.
I do think that at least one benefit to come out of all this for you, is the fact that the authorities now have certain things on record, should you need their help in whatever ways.
Well done, btw, for how you are coping under all the strain. You are doing very well. Hopefully your friend tomorrow will be able to help you a lot too.

50shadesofgreyhair Sun 18-Nov-12 15:48:57

Well, he's playing you like a fiddle OP, isn't he?

Dig deep and decide 100% whether you want out of this relationship. If you really do, then I would suggest that you throw him out. He can go to his parents. You said that you wanted to split prior to his suicide threat, so obviously when you decided this you had the same health issues that you are now citing as an excuse for letting him stay. Sorry, I know I sound hard, but right now, he's taking you for a mug.

I would: write to his parents a detailed letter explaining everything, not in an apologetic way, but just stating the facts in a calm detailed detached way. Then you'll feel better for putting them in the picture, and what they do with the information is up to them. Not your problem. I'd get a friend to stay with you if possible for the next few days. You don't need all this 'you phone the GP for me shit' that he's spouting. You don't need to do anything for him again, unless you want to.

It really is this simple and this black and white. He's clouding everything because he can, because he's got the upper hand, and he wants to make you as guilty as hell. Like I said in my first post on here, bounce it all back, ignore it all. Tell him to go.

Good luck x

JustFabulous Sun 18-Nov-12 15:57:46

Don't make the appointment for him. He is a grown man. He isn't that ill. Is he even ill?

DistanceCall Sun 18-Nov-12 16:48:30

I think one of the worst things about being a woman in this society is the way that were are conditioned to be "nice". We are expected to sacrifice ourselves, our needs and desires, to the needs and desires of practically everyone else.

You are going to have to be not nice here. Don't make any appointments for him. When he says he loves you, he expects you to reply in kind. Don't.

Be polite, but firm. And detach like crazy. You are not responsible for him, and he is not a good man -- he is treating you and your children extremely badly.

And if he says that you are bitch or similar (which he probably will), so be it. Better a bitch than a floormat.

OP, I remember you from another thread you posted on a couple of weeks ago. I have namechanged since but was cannotseeaway. You have been really strong deciding to finish your unhealthy relationship and you need to now stay strong and focussed; you can do it. I am going through similar at the moment.

Good luck and stay strong. [hand hold]

Kixicle Sun 18-Nov-12 17:40:52

duckies, I do indeed remember you, and thank you so much for your kind words. I'm trying to see past all the emotional blackmail (because that is what it is; he was saying earlier that he felt sick, possibly because of stress), and keep going until this is sorted.

Tomorrow will be my doing-things-day; I'll liaise with my friend and talk to someone at the CAB, and hopefully the council too. I just want to get things sorted in terms of what will happen, and all H is prepared to do is muddle along living "separated but together" - ie: with everything the same only without kissing and sex. How mightily convenient for him. hmm

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Sun 18-Nov-12 21:06:01

It sounds like you are seeing things nice and clearly now: good for you. Just stay calm and proceed with the steps to get him out of the house. If he switches to aggression (which he might well do when he sees that neither charm nor self-pity is working) don't be afraid to call the police. The more officially recorded incidents of arsehole behaviour from him, the better in terms of getting him out.

Kundry Sun 18-Nov-12 22:59:08

Please don't let him suck you back in. No-one 'talked him down' when he saw the mental health nurse as he had no intention of doing anything. He wanted to engage with counselling for 5 minutes when he knew he had to behave but now he's back at home, he's back to business as normal. It's likely the mental health team also have his number as they see hundreds of self-centred drama queens like him every week - but unfortunately it's not part of their remit to tell you not to fall for his act or to get him to 'engage with treatment', they are busy enough with really ill people without having to cure people suffering from the illness of 'being an arsehole'. Please don't fall for the idea that if only he would get treatment for his depression he would change because a) he won't and b) why would he get treated when he has you wrapped around his finger now?

CAB sounds like an excellent idea, as does your GP to talk through how much care you really need - I can't believe he does much caring for you anyway, except for himself which he's obv brilliant at

50shadesofgreyhair Mon 19-Nov-12 07:13:10

Hope today goes well OP, and that you stay strong.

So agree with Kundry - no one 'talked him down' at all. He's going to use that line to validate himself. A MH nurse wouldn't 'talk someone down' from suicide and then let him trot off home, leaving him to phone the GP. A genuine threat would be sectioned if high risk. A high threat would hopefully be found a bed somewhere and monitored by Psych today. Even a low risk would be monitored more and at the very least all the info faxed through to GP, so that GP would contact patient on a Monday. Leaving a person to phone their GP next week, tells you how concerned MH are.

Because MH have done what they have (very little) means that his threats are empty, he knows this, they know this and his reluctance to go to GP this week means that the GP will probably think he's wasting his time too.

Please bear all this in mind when he ups the anti this week, and simply let him sort out himself, and your priority is yourself and your kids. Mainly yourself, because when I went through my marriage break-up I quickly realised that if I was ok, then my kids were ok.

And he can't stay and live a separate life in the same house - he needs to go, so I'm glad that you're planning to take practical steps to achieve this.

Good luck.

Kixicle Mon 19-Nov-12 08:04:30

So far he seems to be doing nothing. Last night we barely spoke. He gives me one or two word answers or non-committal sounds in response.

He slept on the sofa last night (which isn't comfy, I know) and has hardly spoken this morning. He is really emphasising the "look of betrayal" - possibly TMI this, but I normally sleep commando, and the reason he slept downstairs would be that since we have been sharing a bed, last night I put something on.

I'm looking forward to getting out of the house today - the atmosphere in here is suffocating. I barely spoke to him last night; I was playing games on the PC to try and keep my mind off of things. When I am down or sad I distract myself, because something I learned from my own parents' split is that whatever happens, it can't be in front of the children. I hated my DM for years because I thought she didn't care about what was happening because she did that, but she kept our childhood as normal as she could and with hindsight I fully appreciate what she did.

We haven't spoken to DS about what is happening yet (I think DD is too young to understand even if we tried) as the details are so up in the air and bless him, he hasn't picked up on the tension. Although H is unresponsive and sullen, that's actually not all that different to how he is normally. I think DS just sees that as who his father is most of the time sad

amillionyears Mon 19-Nov-12 08:09:47

You are doing things well.
I hope today brings you some answers and comfort.

Jux Mon 19-Nov-12 08:29:59

Good luck today.

Will he not leave the house?

BerylStreep Mon 19-Nov-12 08:49:15

Kixicle,
Good luck with your plans for today.

He sounds like a right sulky prat. I haven't read any of your other threads, so don't know the background.

I friend of mine has epilepsy, and her main trigger for seizures is stress. This situation can't be helping you.

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Mon 19-Nov-12 10:24:43

That's another thing to mention to all the professionals you see, that you feel the stress of living with an abusive man is making your illness worse. They will help you and you can put together a strategy for forcing him out (Because he isn't going to leave voluntarily, he is far too selfish and abusive to do so).

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Mon 19-Nov-12 10:58:36

Good luck today

Blondeshavemorefun Mon 19-Nov-12 17:30:07

he is using emotional blackmail to keep you with him and thats not fair to you, him or your kids

generally people threaten to kill theirselves but they dont actually mean it -tho obv some do carry out the threat, but this tends to be a few pills or an attempt to slash their wrists

to be blunt, someone who wants to really die will just committe suicide via hanging and not tell someone they they are planning to

the above i speak sadly from experience - my dh committed suicide last april as suffered from severe depression sad

op i would def tell his/your parents, ring nhs, mention it to his doctor - thinking of you

Jux Mon 19-Nov-12 17:56:52

I have known one person kill himself. He never said a word to anyone. When he did it, he was very thorough, too. Made absolutely sure that it was going to happen and there was no way back.

I have known, probably, about 20 people threaten it. None have actually done it. There were a few half-hearted attempts clearly designed to be easily stopped.

I tell you this, simply so you don't worry about it too much. It really is highly unlikely that he was ever serious about it, and I suspect that he would have been kept overnight at the very least at the hospital if they thought he was serious.

How was today? Hope you had fun with your friend.

Kixicle Tue 20-Nov-12 01:33:54

Just to update, I am currently at my dad's house, having a few days to clear my head and call solicitors and such. I spoke to my local women's aid equivalent I guess, and they gave me lots of good advice.

It still feels kinda surreal, and I've had more tears because I will miss having someone to hug. And I know that there will be a lot more heart-wrenching to come before I'm out the other side of this, because H is really not taking it well. But I'll get there.

I couldn't quite believe what a relief it was to be here. It's like the calm after a storm. My dad is very laid back anyway, but the contrast in lifestyles is just so marked. I had forgotten how happy I was here, I think.

ccarpenton Tue 20-Nov-12 02:27:50

Definitely tell the parents. Definitely tell NHS Direct. Definitely keep the note.

This is not your problem. You don't owe him anything. This is a control tactic.

Hand the problem to someone else. They will be in a better position to act on this threats. You are not in any position to help with this current problem.

He can blame you all he likes, but your kids will only blame you if he has his little cry-for-help whilst in the house with you. You need to get him out of there. Call NHS Direct and hopefully (unless you get a moron on the end of the line) they will send someone round to take him away for observation. If he actually does attempt suicide (only enough to guilt you probably) then he'll do it somewhere else.

Even then. Stay away and keep the kids away until he quits being something distressing. "Daddy is very sick. We can't see him till the doctors say it's okay."

ccarpenton Tue 20-Nov-12 02:29:12

Sorry. My mistake. Didn't see the date on the original post.

Glad you're in a better place now.

Claire X

ChippingInLovesAutumn Tue 20-Nov-12 03:15:39

I'm glad you have gone to your Dad's - Dad's are good for hugs as well you know smile

Stay strong, you can do this
x

amillionyears Tue 20-Nov-12 06:49:25

So glad you are at your dads. And are receiving good, helpful advice.

amillionyears Tue 20-Nov-12 06:52:12

ccarpenton, you do seem to be blundering all over the place.
Can I ask that you post carefully, especially in often delicate situations.

It is also often not normal or necessary to put what may or may not be a real life name on the end of posts.

Jux Tue 20-Nov-12 08:30:31

Kixicle, well done. Relax with your dad, remember what it's like to be normal, get your head clear. Then you can plan what you're going to do next, and take the first steps towards acheiving it - getting legal advice etc. Regain strength and health as far as you are able, in the comfort of a loving home.

How long can you stay there?

spongebob5 Tue 20-Nov-12 13:02:25

I separated from my husband almost 2 years ago, and like you, he stayed living in the house for a good few months afterwards- as its 'our' house (joint names on mortagage). Let me be blunt, it was hell! He would shout at me every day , in front of the children. didn't seem to realise that they already had to deal with our break up (yes, I know it was my decision) as well as his OTT emotions. he'd complain he was 'depressed' and couldnt sleep, when I told him to go to the GP, he would agree but never did anything about it. He then told me he was taking sleeping tablets but they werent working- he let slip they were the type you can buy over the counter, but the fact he was drinking multiple red bull type drinks had nothing to do with this!

I'm also a psych nurse and my ex also played the suicide card, obviously I know him well, and in my fury told him I knew he never would & if he did he was extremely selfish. I would like to say before I get flamed, that my professional and personal lives are separate and I don't speak to people in my care in this way. Plenty of other posters have given you good advice about your DPs issues so I won't repeat what they've said. However, if he needs a GP appointment, he can make it himself, you shouldn't do it.

As someone who's been there, and is still there to some extent. I would stay with family/friends until you can find your own place ( your own keys!), sort out your finances/benefits and separate any other things that connect you. You can't expect to leave him & then want him to look after you during the night. Stick to your guns and look to the future, good luck! x

Kixicle Wed 21-Nov-12 08:45:10

I had a bit of a hopeless day yesterday in terms of productivity, though it was nice being with the children.

I still need to get hold of a solicitor today - I made a couple of calls yesterday but the ones I spoke to either weren't taking on clients or appointments were in a couple of weeks.

I spoke to H this morning (he says good morning and good night to the DC) and he's laying blame squarely on me for not trying, and says he doesn't want to move out straight away, and that if we can get on amiably living together (in a tiny 2 up 2 down) that would be his ideal situation in the short term. He says he has his parents in town who will support him in looking after the DC if it comes to that, and after this time away is over he doesn't want me "taking the kids away again".

He says he's down and sad and everyone he speaks to keeps asking what went wrong and how can we patch it up. He wants me to try, he wants to know what happens when he gets better and can we try again then. He says I have betrayed him and he can't stop thinking of all the times I said I loved him and wondering which was the first time I lied.

He is convinced it is inappropriate for me to have the DC by myself and asked how I have been with seizures. He says it is his home too, and he doesn't want to have to leave, that he has nowhere else to go. (He refuses to stay with his parents.) When I told him about the fact there were plenty of benefits he could claim and options he would have now we are separated, that's when he brought up the "it's my home too and I don't want to leave" thing. He kept harping on about how I had done this, how we had said we would try but had only ever talked about it, not done it.

I don't feel beaten down, not any more (though I did while we were talking which is I guess his point), but I am starting to see the fight I have ahead of me. I really really hope I can speak to someone today - I can't physically get to a solicitor so I will badly need to speak to one on the phone who can advise me.

Whocansay Wed 21-Nov-12 08:53:17

I'd be tempted to call his bluff, if possible. Can you and the DCs stay with your dad for a period?

Make it clear to everyone, especially h, that the situation is untenable (which it is) and that you feel its unfair on the children to be around your 'suicidal' h at the moment.

If he's happy to use your seizures against you, use his emotional manipulation against him.

Of course, legally the above may be counter productive, so get legal advice first.

BerylStreep Wed 21-Nov-12 08:56:19

He sounds like he's having a full on pity party. None of it's his fault then? You just fell out of love with the perfect man?

I personally wouldn't discuss it any more with him, it is just giving him an opportunity to re-write the story with you firmly in the wrong.

Anniegetyourgun Wed 21-Nov-12 09:03:45

Ah, I had all that too from XH, self-pity to aggression, changing from one to the other in the middle of a sentence sometimes. He's spent all your relationship learning which buttons to press to keep you in line. Now you're beginning to break away he's panicking and mashing all the buttons at once! It's weird and it makes your head spin, but it doesn't mean anything at the end of the day. Just someone who may lose his cosy situation (you think it's hellish but it's what he's used to, and he's more afraid than you of change), and is trying everything he knows to stop that happening. Try to discount pretty much everything he's saying at the moment. He may have valid worries about his future but he won't be listening at the moment to any practical suggestions you can offer, because he doesn't want to manage by himself. You, however, can't afford things to stay as they are, because it's affecting your mood and your health, and ultimately will affect your sanity. So keep strong and wear virtual earplugs.

Cantbelieveitsnotbutter Wed 21-Nov-12 09:26:04

Firstly well done for making the jump xxx stand strong your doing the right thing

What he wants is for you to go home and play happy families. Hopefully the sight of skiddy pants when your doing the washing will be enough to make you realise you've made a terrible mistake.

Please don't move back until he's out, this manipulative bastard can't be trusted. Xxx

sausagesandwich34 Wed 21-Nov-12 09:46:09

my ex has suffered from 'untreated depression' for years

when we split he offered to get treatment but we had been down that route many times over the 13 years we had been together, so why I should I believe anything would be different this time

he accused me of 'not trying' when actually I had been trying for years and was exhausted by it -conversely he has been saying he was trying for years but always put all the onus back on me to fix things -everything got turned into being my fault -I was making him depressed by doing all the housewrok/childcare/working fulll time while supporting his efforts to start his own business/doing his accounts/doing all the household accounts/looking after his mum when she was ill/and being at his beck and call in the bedroom

'untreated depression' is a great excuse for behaving like a twat

he is emotionally abusing you -I got the suicide threats, told I was depressed and unstable and he was going to take the kids away from me etc

it was all empty threats -took a while but he got fed up of living in the house before I did when he realised that I didn't care anymore and he wasn't getting into my head

don't get involved with conversations with him, carry on regardless with your life and he will get the message
it's bloody hard and if I'm honest I'm still getting over it 3 years later but it's massively better than living with it day in day out

good luck with the solicitor x

amillionyears Wed 21-Nov-12 09:55:49

Some good posts on here.
Hope you get good advice from a solicitor today. And especially about the children and your seizures.

1 of the things I would try and especially remember about him, is that he lies.

Kixicle Wed 21-Nov-12 10:56:08

Okaay, and now I can't get hold of a solicitor - they're all telling me either they're not taking on clients or it will be a couple of weeks. Head going down a bit at the moment.

Time to get googling I guess.

Guiltypleasures001 Wed 21-Nov-12 11:06:38

if that is how long it is going to take, then dig in the for the long haul, better you wait for the best advice then short term not so good.

if you can hunker down at your Dads then I suggest you do so if you cant get him out of the house. Dont let this turn in to a stale mate, this is and will play in to his hands. he is using emotional black mail of the kids, xmas the house everything inlcuding the kitchen sink.

If you fold this early then its game over, he knows you cant legally get him out of the house for now, but think on this, if you go back then it really is going to be hell on wheels, he will work on you till your head is screaming, nothing is worth that. Take the view that this is a long term plan, and needs to be done in stages, none of this is going to move fast, but its going to be a damn sight quicker if you start now, then if you went back and found your self at rock bottom in a few years time, isnt it?

x

Guiltypleasures001 Wed 21-Nov-12 11:09:26

Oh and hand the phone to the kids and when they have finished put the bloody receiver down, dont engage, and who the feck cares who is saying this that and the other, they have his word for it, and how is that worth a fcuk these days?

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Wed 21-Nov-12 11:16:30

Have been reading and now delurking to wish you all the best, he sounds as if he is living "through the looking glass", his reality isn't yours no matter how he tries to spin it and you have nothing to reproach yourself for.

SolidGoldYESBROKEMYSPACEBAR Wed 21-Nov-12 11:21:46

If you can stay at your dad's for the moment then do so. As to the H, don't engage. Just repeat 'The marriage is over, you will be hearing from my solicitor' and put the phone down on him. If he acts up in other ways ie turns up at your dad's and starts performing, remember he has no right of entry to your dad's house, and you can call the police to remove him.

He's a pathetic, contemptible, selfish man and you have no need to feel guilty about ending the marriage.

BerylStreep Wed 21-Nov-12 16:22:25

Women's Aid might be able to recommend a good solicitor. They did for a family member of mine.

Yes, remember, he lies. He lied to the police and said he hadn't threatened suicide, until you showed them the note. Make sure you hold on to the note.

Kixicle Wed 21-Nov-12 16:30:50

I don't have the note any more. I gave it to the police officer and H said they gave it to him and he destroyed it. I do have a photo of it though.

amillionyears Wed 21-Nov-12 17:20:54

I would print out some hard copies of his note, and keep them somewhere safe.
You dont know if and when you might need them in the future.

Am surprised that the police gave his note back to him.

BerylStreep Wed 21-Nov-12 18:10:34

I would check with the police whether they did indeed give him back the note. I too would be very surprised if they did. Another lie maybe? I bet he doesn't realise you have a photo of it.

I 2nd the suggestion of printing out a hard copy (or two) of the photo.

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