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help! ex may try to abduct DD this w.e.

(41 Posts)
yummymommy1 Tue 13-Nov-12 23:48:47

hi mummies. we are known to some of you. im at my mums , in order to stay away from persistent and bullying ex, who beleives its his right to 1. have full access to my flat still and 2. the right to see his DD whenever he wants and now 3. the right to benefits and have her live with him.

He's a big guy , strong, fearless, and inflamed by having been through this with his ex wife too about 10 years ago and has a drink and mental health issue. im waiting for income proof to gain full access to legal aid, in next 2-3 days , . the solicitor will be writing him a warning letter re; harrasment..but im not sure if he will get it before this weekend. i wished i had moved faster on this stuff!

the police warned me to apply for a residency order, but she says its ok to allow contact as im the primary carer , and i can get a court order should he not return her. however i dont agree, i dont want it to get to that as it would be traumatic for me and Dd as she is only 2.5 and still BF . advise please ! am panicking and thinking of going into hiding somewhere else as my dozy mums too switched off and self absorbed to be on the ball about this stuff.

geologygirl Tue 13-Nov-12 23:54:46

Don't know your history but if police involved then has he been violent or intimidating to you? If yes then you don't necessarily need to allow contact just like that - perhaps supervised instead while he sorts out drink, anger and mental health issues, as I'm sure that is pretty important and safest for your DD!! Is your solicitor a specialist in this area? Doesn't sound like it to me...

BertieBotts Tue 13-Nov-12 23:57:55

What makes you think he may try to abduct her this weekend? Is it planned that he will be seeing her and you're worried he won't bring her back? Or do you think he might just turn up at where you are?

Can you not push for supervised contact only? And for this weekend - blush - lie and say she's ill?

Have you tried contacting women's aid for advice and support? They may be able to advise about this weekend, and also if you ask, they should be able to house you in a refuge if you do not feel safe at your mum's.

BertieBotts Wed 14-Nov-12 00:00:43

Anyway, I have to go to bed, but hope someone can advise if you can clarify those points.

Good luck.

yummymommy1 Wed 14-Nov-12 00:03:33

hi . yes police were involved , 3 weeks ago, as i was unsure about how he would behave when i said i didnt want him back in the flat again ( only as a non resident parent to visit DD, but he had become difficult and verbally abusive in the time of the stay and i no longer felt safe with him). i had the locks changed. the police took a statement and i called them back when he came to collect his stuff. luckily he left quietly. he has found out where my mum lives and says he is coming over to see DD this w.e. - no asking just telling! as usual. yes i am afraid he wont bring her back, he has already said he is applying for the child benefit and will 'have DD living with me and then you will have to come and see her at my place'

yummymommy1 Wed 14-Nov-12 00:04:20

thanks bertie.

yummymommy1 Wed 14-Nov-12 00:05:31

will call solicitor/ police/ child benefit line in morning

izzyizin Wed 14-Nov-12 00:06:37

Are/were you married to your ex? Is he named as the father on your dd's birth certificate?

It's all very well having a solicitor/police telling you that you can apply for court orders and the like if your ex doesn't return your dd after contact, but it doesn't address the fact that this will take time during which you, if not your dd, will be traumatised at being separated from her - or that he'll be easy to find in order for her to be restored to you.

Under the circumstances, I would suggest you make plans to secure your flat and go away for this coming weekend - and, if possible, stay away until you've got a residency or prohbited steps Order and a non-molestation Order in place.

This website's Advice Line can provide information as to which Orders you are best advised to apply for www.rightsofwomen.org.uk and I would suggest that you ensure that any solicitor you use in this matter is up to speed on the myriad issues surrounding dv and controlling/abusive males.

SchroSawMummyRidingSantaClaus Wed 14-Nov-12 00:08:01

Can you not just not open the door? Is there any reason why you have to give her over and not just let him see her while you are there?

oldqueenie Wed 14-Nov-12 00:09:04

if there is no contact order made by a court you don't have to let him have contact with her this weekend. What are the usual arrangements if any? How were they arrived at? Why are you worried right now? It's hard to advise without knowing more.... if no court order I would suggest either telling him (by email / text with a record of it) that dd is not available for contact this weekend and then making sure that you and she are somewhere safe or if there are no usual arrangements just making sure that you and she are somewhere safe. If you really think he poses a threat of whatever sort to dd you need a residence order and probably a prohibited steps / contact order to formalise the arrangements for dd. Prioritise keeping her safe until you can get proper urgent legal advice. hth.

oldqueenie Wed 14-Nov-12 00:10:24

x posts!

Flojo1979 Wed 14-Nov-12 00:10:42

So he hasn't actually done anything wrong? Just wants to see his DD at the wkend?

izzyizin Wed 14-Nov-12 00:15:37

X-posted. Shame you've wasted 3 weeks that could have been used to put the necessary safeguards in place but better late than never.

Call child benefit as a matter of urgency and explain that he may be making a claim - it shouldn't be necessary but it's not be unknown for benefits to be stopped for spurious reasons.

Don't entertain allowing him to have unsupervised contact with dd and don't let him into your flat to see her. For the foreseeable future any contact he has with dd should take place in the supervised environment of an accredited contact centre - let him take you to Court to facilitate this.

Document his behaviour/keep any threatening emails, texts, etc, and don't hesitate to call the police again if he kicks off/becomes intimidating.

seaofyou Wed 14-Nov-12 00:23:11

Hi Yummy Contact Woman's Aid before weekend try and get to one of their offices if close by. They will give lots of advice.

If ex has actually said he will take DD this weekend and not bring her back....don't let her go. Do not answer the door and if aggressive outside record on your phone/camcorder and call police asap oh and stay awake the whole weekend if you can. Try and get marker on the house this weekend.

Ask solicitor for contact center supervised visits only because of his drinking and mental health difficulties (he has diagnosis of what?) and threatening and abduction threats...hope you have some evidence as this is so important. You have a witness with your mum this weekend!

If you have any text messages/answerphone/emails off him threatening this or anything else get it recorded with solicitor just in case they get deleted etc

Can you all go away for the weekend? Does he have contact order to see DD?

Flojo1979 Wed 14-Nov-12 00:29:06

I'm surprised at all the people saying block contact. On what grounds? He's done nothing wrong, he left quietly.
That he said he's going to take her? Well OP actually did take her! Or am missing the point?

seaofyou Wed 14-Nov-12 00:36:30

Flojo he has threatened to take dd and not return her even get CB in his name. If she does allow dd to go and he doesnt return dd it could take best part of a week to get her back if courts or solicitor is busy. A wait like this is hell and possibly leaves the mum traumatized for life!
They are often lovely behaved in front of police but he has been threatening in past see Narc thread a few down.

Father's normally do not act this way he is threatening not to return dd so yummy can see what it is like to have to go to his house to see dd!! This is not atypical father behaviour.

izzyizin Wed 14-Nov-12 00:43:45

Read what the OP has said about her ex, Flojo.

Any negotiations with bullying/abusive/controlling individuals are best conducted from a position of strength and, especially where drink/mental issues are a factor, the welfare and wellbeing of any dc should be of paramount importance at all times.

hildebrandisgettinghappier Wed 14-Nov-12 06:58:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Chopstheduck Wed 14-Nov-12 07:12:53

it sounds to me a lot like my exh.

'have DD living with me and then you will have to come and see her at my place'

IMO, it's about gaining control over YOU not dd. I'm not convinced at all that it is about a dad wanting access to, or residency of his child. He wants control over you, so he calls the shots, and you have to go over to his place to see your daughter.

I would block contact this weekend - just say sorry, this weekend isn't convenient, and get some proper arrangements in place. Contact women's aid for advice, and also, do you have a Home Start or Sure Start near you? They may also be able to provide support.

I not sure you have grounds to block unsupervised contact, but in this situation you should at least get the residency order in place and proper arrangements for access.

My exh was like this, until I moved 200 miles away, then he lost all interest in his children overnight, and I never heard from him again. I tried to make arrangements so he could still see them on a regular basis, but once I was out of reach, he wasn't interested any more.

snoopdogg Wed 14-Nov-12 07:31:50

Apply to court for an emergency non molestation order on the basis of his threat to take your child. solicitor will have to draw up statement and demonstrate grounds - his verbal agression, threats etc, financial abuse drink issues, mental health problems, you should get a 10/20 minute hearing. I did this, the judge's main concern (rightly) was that I was not trying to engineer a situation that blocked all contact with children. I assured him that I just needed short term protection to put necessary safeguards and arrangements re contact in place. My order was granted. He wasn't allowed within 500m of me.

Because it is an emergency order it is granted without your ex's knowledge. He will be served with the order and from the moment it is served it is in effect (get the process server to call you to tell you it's been done.)

He will then be given the right to reply within about 14 days I think from memory and he can then put his side of the story.

It will give the time and space to put suitable arrangements in place, take control of the situation and hopefully, allow things to calm down a bit.

Make sure it comes with 'power of arrest' or it's useless

Good luck

HissyByName Wed 14-Nov-12 07:33:12

Be out. You don't want to expose your dc to this, or put her at risk.

Be OUT. All weekend.

Sunnywithachanceofshowers Wed 14-Nov-12 08:46:37

Do you have somewhere else you and your DD can stay this weekend?

yummymommy1 Wed 14-Nov-12 08:48:13

hi thanks for all the responses. yes, ex has 'borderline narcissistic personality disorder' so control is a big issue.i agree chopstheduck its about controlling ME. he also sees kids as 'cashcows' as he illegally claimed childben / tax cred for years for his other kids, and is still getting it for one! his ex was a bit switched off at the time, now i think she's too scared as he has given them years of harrassment/ abuse since she locked him out . yes i think its time to show the solicitor his threatening emails along with benefit evidence, she seems a bit reluctant to take proper steps via court, but she is a trainee. thanks snoopdog i was feeling a bit overwhelmed with all the orders etc , which one was siutable etc. we took so long as we were in shock-initially,and recovering, tired ,plus so many things got in way, just everyday stuff ,and , as said mums a bit switched off and kept doing her own things so i was stuck with DD and unable to get on , plus solicitor booked up then my benefit evidence wasnt recent enuf...so we had a long meeting but then she hasnt been able to do anything else ! i feel like im tramping thru mud! flojo its not that he has been reasonable, but that he has written some very threatening emails, some quiet abusive to family/ freinds, and basically says its his 'right' to have DD with him. i think also some weird punishment thing against women as he's a misogynist and hates women. Am going to make some phone calls. not sure where we could go this w.e., but yes i dont want DD exposed, as you say hissyby name she has been thru enuf drama already .

yummymommy1 Wed 14-Nov-12 08:50:25

ps. by luck am chatting to a guy on POF who has just been thru all this so tahts helpful

oldqueenie Wed 14-Nov-12 10:12:09

i think you might find chatting to your solicitor, women's aid, child benefit office etc. more helpful?

NicknameTaken Wed 14-Nov-12 10:27:42

Yeah, it's really not the time to be chatting on PoF.

You don't have to hand her over this weekend. Send him a letter saying that you'll make DD available through a contact centre. It won't do you much good, but keep a copy - shows you're willing to allow safe contact. And prioritize the legal stuff. If you're not happy with the solicitor, try looking around for others. Many offer a free 30 min appointment - if you can talk to a few, you'll get a good sense of who is on the ball.

My ex did claim child benefit and tax credits for DD, when I was the residential parent, and each time it took 6 months to sort out. A pain in the backside, but it does get sorted out in the end. Don't panic (and don't try to stay awake all weekend, as earlier advised - it won't help your judgement). You can do this, but you need to keep your head, get good legal advice, and follow it faithfully.

seaofyou Wed 14-Nov-12 12:59:26

Nickname I meant stay awake at night if Yummy has to stay as he could strike...it's only one weekend. She can sleep when light when people around in street in daytime and ex is less likely to strike and also depends on what type of stuff he did to other ex's too will see similar pattern!
If's it's i.e risk of arson or breaking in is one of the behaviours these are usually done at night time when no witnesses to see and people asleep inside house. From my experience most of the attacks were late evening or night time a few in the day too but mainly at night after being spotted several times in day time sitting in car round the corner...that another thing you could ask someone to check for (who your ex does not know and wont drive off and car reg taken and phone police if spotted).

HissyByName Wed 14-Nov-12 13:29:55

Sorry, but WTF? You're on POF while there's a chance your DD will be taken by your abusive Ex?

Priorities woman!

I would also ask what work you have done to reduce the risk of falling for the same kind of guy as your ex? Have you done the Freedom Programme?

If not, do that first, before trawling the bilge that is POF.

Get on the phone and get the protection your DD needs, write to the twat to tell him that due to his threats that you'll not be allowing contact until adequate protection is put in place.

Then make sure that you and she are as safe as houses. Call the police for advice too.

Lemonylemon Wed 14-Nov-12 13:35:25

OP: Your "solicitor" is a trainee. She will not be able to take any steps on her own. She needs the advice & permission of her superior/law firm partner. If this is as urgent as you say, you need to speak to the solicitor supervising your trainee.

Stop with the PoF and get some action going with the solicitor, Women's Aid, the Police DV unit etc. etc. etc.

izzyizin Wed 14-Nov-12 13:59:41

A trainee solicitor will be as much use a chocolate teapot; in this situation you need an experienced rottweiler practitioner who is well versed in applying for ex parte injunctions and in justifying and maintaining the need for any such Orders at a later date.

Locate your local Women's Aid offices here www.womensaid.org.uk and seek recommendations for solicitors who have the expertise to put the necessary measures in place.

Don't use your mum being 'switched off' and you being switched on to some guy on POF to excuse your failure to protect your dd; her welfare and welbeing is solely down to YOU and you're long overdue in getting off your bum and getting this show on the road.

izzyizin Wed 14-Nov-12 14:00:18
seaofyou Wed 14-Nov-12 15:46:14

You should really think about going into Woman's Aid refuge Yummy as your ex sounds dangerous? You could be putting your mother's life at risk too? Press the WA link Izzy did.

If you went into refuge you could write to ex to say I am no longer at my mum's and my solicitor will be in contact in due course about supervised access!

It is up to you re dating but it would have been the last thing on my mind when ds and I were being targeted.

cestlavielife Wed 14-Nov-12 16:30:17

sure the guy on on POf has done all this - one way to get you onside with him right? what do you know of him? zilch -any more than you know people on here - so get proper advice and help

not the time to be dating really is it?

get proper solicitor advice. and dont hand your dd over if her eis no contact oder dont do it - wait toil contact properly sorted at a contact centre initially.

BerylStreep Wed 14-Nov-12 18:29:41

what is POF?

izzyizin Wed 14-Nov-12 18:40:29

POF = Plenty of Fish which is a dating site not known for providing reliable legal advice, Beryl.

Op, how do you know its not your ex you're talking to on POF? Keep your cards close.

yummymommy1 Wed 14-Nov-12 19:27:22

yes..am seeing solicitor tomorrow, thanx :-)

izzyizin Wed 14-Nov-12 19:31:45

Would that be a solicitor who has considerable experience in the field of family law or a follow up appointment with the trainee you've already consulted?

NicknameTaken Thu 15-Nov-12 11:03:17

seaofyou, I totally take your point about attacks happening at night, and if arson is a likelihood, it makes sense to stay alert then. From what you've said of your ex, that sounded like a very necessary strategy for you. I don't get the same impression here, and I think it's an important for her to keep a cool head. Proper sleep does help.

seaofyou Thu 15-Nov-12 13:09:38

That's ok Nickname I just assume from experience that ex is the starting point of dangerous and well he could try and get in at night and take his dd whilst asleep...OTT possibly! But that's my PTSD from my lovely experiences over the years from my twunt of an ex!

seaofyou Thu 15-Nov-12 13:27:15

OP have you seen a solicitor fully trained in Family Law yet? Please do it's Friday tomorrow. You are lucky at least ex is warning you when it is....so you can be as far away as possible. Oh do not go out alone or with dd alone. Get an attack alarm on your key ring. Look out for ex car or suspicious cars parked up.
Come back over weekend and let us know you are ok?

Queenie grin

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