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I am obsessed with the loss of a close friendship.(100 Posts)
I posted on another thread, last week or so.
My post is the long one, about 5 from the top.
I just wanted to add, something to that other post.
Reading it back, it sounds very full on. But it wasn't really like that. Our friendship peaked and troughed, like anyother. Sometimes we saw alot of eachother, sometimes we didn't see eachother for ages. Pretty normal, I assume. I work 3 days a week. She was the class rep and knew lots of people, was very chatty. Which I encouraged her to take the class rep position. And was never jealous of that aspect. Our freindship sounds very full on, but actually over the course of 4 years, it wasn't that full on. I work, she didn't. Some weeks, I didn't see her at all. I chatted to other people in the playground, on the days when I did actually do pick up (not working). and then we would see eachother, realise we hadn't spoken for 1/2/3 weeks and come round to each others houses for a coffee and a catch up.
I was talking to my best freind about this last night.
The atmosphere in the playground is so icy. barely civil. I sit at work, 15 minutes before having to go to pick up, dreading going. Come on, thats not good. And about once every week or 2 weeks, I still have a little sob about it all. When you write that down, it sounds so pathetic.
I am so angry with myself. Why can't I get over this? I want to hit myself with a large slap and shout 'stop being such a wimp, you idiot'. But I still get upset by what has happened. Miss her. Worry about what I am going to do about about ds1's birthday party. I should invite her ds. He is still my ds's best friend. But she was also very very rude and offensive about my dh, that my dh has no time for her.
Why am I letting her get to me? What is wrong with me? Why can't i get over this?
Please could you give me a hard slap.
Or atleast give some sensible advice, with practical steps as to how to stop this hurting so much, how to be tougher on myself.
You seem to describe the events with much more passion and intensity than would usually be felt at the loss of a schoolmum/neighbourhood friendship. So I wonder whether the intensity of the friendship might be part of the reason for its explosion. I can understand the tension and falling-out at the time of the cub holiday: accusations abut one child mistreating another are a big deal. But the later rowing seems odd, and perhaps you don't give enough info to make sense of it. Do you understand the reasons for it yourself?
Why do you need this person so much. Did she feel this way about you?
Perhaps I'm being unsympathetic because I just can't imagine caring so much about a friendship that clearly wasn't working out. But I'm sure the difficulty you have now will not last seven years! Time will heal. Also your sons can be friends, close friends, without their mums being friends
I've taken the liberty of cutting and pasting your post from that thread, mainly because it was such a long way into the thread that I almost gave up looking, and thought others would too, so here it is...
Add message | Report | Message poster Oblomov Tue 23-Oct-12 22:31:21
I have been dumped recently. I have sobbed and sobbed about it and seem incapable of gettign over it.
She was my closest friend. I have a best friend from uni, who now lives 3 hrs away, a very good schoolfriend, and a friend I made at work 2 years ago, who lives locally. But this woman was my closest local friend. School mum.
We met in reception, when we had both been dumped by other groups of mums. Our ds's didn't care for eachother initially, but became best friends. I always thought it would have been easier if they hadn't because i considered her my friend. We have 2 younger ds's who also adore eachother. We would pop round for cofee. She lives round the corner. We stagered home from school xmas drinks. My dh took her dh out for pints and dug his patio. We had 2 NYE's round at thiers with both boys. They came as a familty to have bbq's. She and I went and stayed in our caravan with the boys for a week. I valued her friendship HIGHLY.
The boys went on cub camp, this summer. On return, She said her ds didn't want to see mine. She phoned. She was on fire. telling me that my son had doen this and that. Terribel things she said. Turned out it was all lies and her ds had lied. But it was the way she treated me and what she said that really really hurt. I cried so much. Firstly for my poor son, who had done very little wrong. And his loss of a best friend (although they are back to being best friends again now, (how can that be maintained, when the mums are now at logerheads?). But more so for me. I was gutted that i had lost what I THOUGHT was such a close friend.
No contact all summer. Then, in the playground, she was talking to another mum about something that was so close to the mark, it was not appropariate. I told the other mum and her so.
She rang me. She was on fire. shouting and swearing, f**kign this, f**king that. In the nd, she was shouting at me, asking me why I didn't have much to say.
So I told her. Very calmly. I told her how upset i was at everything. I told her everything i wanted to say. I did myself proud.
she finally apologised, for her sons lying and how she had conducted herself.
I rang her the next day to say, that I was glad of the apology. But the swearing was not o.k. She apologised again. But since then, she has been cold as ice. I obviously didn't expect it to go back to how it was before... but......
I am stil so gutted for myself. And I feel sorry for my son, becasue I can not see how his friendship, with her ds, can be maintained. But this is not my sons fault.
I noticed that I had been de-friended on facebook. So i sent a message to ask if this was intentional. No response.
Dh has no comrpehension as to why i am so upset. My friends can't understand why I would want to be friends with her. But the sense of loss is incredible.
And i feel so sorry for my son. AND i have to go through years of still seing her every day at school. The ds's still have 3 years left. And my ds2 starts next year, so I will still have anoher 7 years of it. which just rubs salt into the wounds.
I don't know why this hurts me so badly. But the sense of grief is immense. I want to know when this is going to stop hurting.
This too shall pass...
Not school gate related, but I have been "dumped" by a work colleague I thought was a friend and it bloody hurt.
You need to acknowledge to yourself that it hurts, and work out why it hurts - maybe because she believed her son over you and didn't check the facts?
Once you've worked this out, it doesn't stop hurting, but you can face it head on. When your thoughts stray to the hurt, you can tell yourself why, and stop dwelling on it and you will think less and less about it.
As for seeing her daily, fake it. Fake it, and then fake it some more. Paste a smile on, do a polite acknowledgement and that's it. If your DS wants to see hers, then fine, drop off and pick up but don't interact; maybe arrange things by email for a bit.
Eventually, it does get better. But it does take time. Sorry.
Well it sounds like u loved this woman. Just admit that to urself. Why do u think it would just take a day to get over if u did? I don't mean u wAnted an affair or anything crass, just u loved her.
So, give urself a bit of time to grieve. It will work out and u will find a balance and life will go on but for a few days grieve.
Then later wash ur face in cold water look in the mirror and bloody well get on with life.
You poor thing. I hope the grief passes for you soon. I have been dumped pretty much by my best mate of 28 years and I am in a terrible state. I can appreciate how hurt you feel and grief is awful. I miss her so much and feel so alone. I have not felt quite so hurt and rejected since being dumped by a boyfriend I loved very much, back in my youth.
I wish I could offer you more support. At the moment I am very low about it all and wonder if I am slipping into some mild depression as I am struggling with alot and to move on from this. People keep telling these feelings will pass and I suppose they will eventually. I got over being dumped by a much loved serious boyfriend in the past, I have moved on OK from deaths of loved ones - then I guess with time I will eventually get over this as well. Its just going to take time.
I can imagine how you are feeling and its shit. All I can do is hold your hand cos I am yet to come out the otherside too.
I think it's pretty normal to be upset after a friend has behaved so badly - I know I have loved friends who have then been total shits and it does stab you in the heart. However, given that she's not apologised sincerely so that you can resume the friendship, I think you just have to paint your 'game face' on in the playground and act in a polite but cool manner towards her.
She isn't who you thought/hoped she would be. I'm sorry.
Thank you Antrobus for re-pasting my old thread. I didn't realise it wa so hard ot find. You didn't make nay comemnts. What do you think?
Oaty, you are so right. I do describe it with too much passion. I know this is wrong. I am just not sure quite how to adjust this.
And you are right, why do I need this so much? It exposes me as so very needy. the same basic problem. I know i need to adjust this.
And you comment, about the rowing. you mean the swearing? Well, that was a shock to me. thr tempoer, the agression, the viciousness. She told me the next day that her husband was tellign her to 'kill the call'. And that she did it because she was expecting me to have a go at her. But actually, I did not have a shouty go, but in a very calm way, tellign her how upset I was. I think it was just her defense mechanism. But an unacceptable one.
She does admit that she is totally overprotective.
But theat leads me, back to me. why I valued her so much. why I am so hurt by this. my hurt seesm ott, doesn't it?
"I just can't imagine caring so much about a friendship that clearly wasn't working out." well, up unto that conversation after cub camp, and the after conversation of swearing, it had worked up till then. Or I thought so.
Maybe i am just sad and missing the loss of the friendship, finding it hard to accept that it has gone so wrong. saddened that it has crumbled in such atagonistic and unpleasannness.
If friendships cool off, thats one thing. This seems very fireworky, don't you think?
Jugulum, yoiu are so right. I will try to be civil. And leave it at that. I will try.
I have done myself proud so far. I can continue to do so. I am sure it will get easier.
Ciccolina, i have had my weeks to grieve. And I still sob. Thats can't be right. which was why I was asking you guys to give me a hard slap!! I feel ridiculous that my hurt still hurts so bad. I need to get a grip. I really do know that.
Soggy, I am so very sorry that this too has happened to you. I am afraid i have no wisdom to offer you. But i am sure, that as the other posters have said, this will get easier and easier for us.
Hipster, "She isn't who you thought/hoped she would be. I'm sorry. "
You are so right. Maybe that is also part of the hurt. Cross with myself that my judgement was so wrong.
I wonder if this is a bit like crying at a stranger's funeral.
Has the break-up of this friendship triggered off something else? The loss of another friendship? Or something similar? Did you feel abandoned emotionally at any stage by someone significant? What's your relationship with your parents like? Are there any issues there?
Don't be ashamed of how you are feeling. I think it's worth exploring, as it is triggering such strong emotions for you.
Sorry to hear you're in this situation Oblomov, it's horrible. I had a similar time last year with a school mum friend, although we weren't as close as you and your friend were. It's taken the best part of a year of being civil, nice and chatty but not over the top in the playground to get things back to being 'friendly' although we'll never be as close as we were, I don't think.
I don't know why you're so upset about this, although - and forgive me if this sounds unkind, I don't mean it to be - I do wonder if there is an element of you having stuck the boot in just a bit too much?
I don't excuse what she did at all, but it sounds from your post as if the first time you spoke to her about how upset you were, you got an apology from her and it could have been laid to rest then. You then spoke to her again and had a go about her swearing, and that seems to have been a bit too much, perhaps that's what made her think that you were pushing unnecessarily for further apologies and has made her cut you off. Obviously I could be wrong but that's how it comes across to me.
I wonder if part of you feels bad about that because if you'd just left things a the first apology it would all have been fine - and that's why you are finding it hard to move on? Again let me reiterate, I don't think you we're in the wrong, and her swearing clearly was out of order, but perhaps she felt you were trying to make her grovel and that then enabled her, in her own mind, to paint herself as the victim and you as the unreasonable one?
Either way, it sounds as if you need to ask her for a quiet chat, say that you are sorry for your part in the whole situation - because these things always go better with an apology and if you really want to have her friendship back it's not about who was fit or wrong or point scoring, it's about everyone feeling happier - and ask of you can both put it behind you. On the other hand if you don't want to do that, then perhaps the bring right / wrong thing is more important to you than the friendship. Personally I don't think she sounds like a terribly nice friend to have but equally I know how awful it is when you are dreading the school run and just want things to be friendly again. If it were me I'd swallow any pride, tell her you're sorry for the upset on both sides and ask if you can move on.
It sounds to me like she is in shock over what's happened and rather than acknowledge to herself how awful she's been, she has shut down completely and decided to freeze you out. It is easier to do that than be warm and honest with herself and with you. There isn't anything you can do except as someone says up there ^^ be ocalm and polite and maybe she'll come round eventually.
Some people just aren't any good at being in the wrong. Hugs to you.
Oh, and the probs partly the reason you are so upset is that it is so unfair.
And yes, you asking for further apologies may have pushed her to the freezing thing.
I have a very close relationship to my mum. And I tell her alot.
My best friend, I was on te phone to her last night. I can't keep harping on about this lost friendship, because it just seems over-emotional.
I have a few freinds. Not alot. I like close friends more. I have 2 close'ish friend who live closer to me.
I am good at small talk and pleasantries, in the playground. There are 6 or 7 people i can stand with at collecting time and make small talk with. I often think its a bit superficial, but it seems that theis is the way things are. I can easily do it. I say occassional 'morning' to 10-20 other playground mums. Is that not normla?
I lost my bests friend after school. when she was travelling and I went to visit her. But i thought i was long long over that. I hadn't even thought about that for many years.
When you askd me if i had been abandoned. My initial thought was no. I did not have any terrible relationships with men, in my younger days. I don't remember ever feeling abandoned.
I have a group of 6 PN mums who I go for an occassional drink with.
I am not bereft of social contact.
Does this all sound odd and un-balanced? I didn't realsie that it was.
I agree with PotionMaker. Although she acted dreadfully, pushing for two apologies may have made her shut down to you.
I think it was a big mistake to ring her a second time after the first apology, to get her to apologise for swearing. It is a mothers instinct to protect her child so can understand her reaction, although you didn't actually say what he accused your son of doing and how you know it was untrue. I think you have been too intense about this. I would back away too, if a friend was ringing me demanding apologies.
Thank you. Potionmaker and Hully. I had nto considered that. How my phoning to commetn about eh swearing ,may have piuhed her too far. I had totally not considered thta. But I hera what you are saying.
"On the other hand if you don't want to do that, then perhaps the bring right / wrong thing is more important to you than the friendship." NO it SOOOO isn't. I just don't want to dread going there. I just don't want the icy atmosphere.
I think in my earlier post I didn't give enough weight to how overprotective she was being about your sons' tussle at cub camp. Some parents do get immensely hung up in conflicts that are much better resolved when the children themselves deal with it more or less without adults -- and I guess that her over-involvement suggests something about her approach to conflict in her own social life, which it seems she handled very poorly in her relationship with you.
On the other hand, I was struck by the "two apologies" thing, too. And I was also very struck that in your first post you took the trouble to say, if I understood you right, that you were not jealous of her friendships with other mothers. I think no-one would have imagined that jealousy was involved at all, and the fact that you felt the need to deny jealousy does kind of make me think that perhaps there was some jealousy? Which makes me think that there was something problematic about the friendship even before the fallout?Forgive me if I am completely wrong there.
I realise this now. I did not see it before.
I was really shocked by the swearing. My husband said, that she shouldn't have shouted and sworn at me. It went on for 20 minutes, and I just sat there stunned.
But I realsie now that pushing for an apology on the swearing was maybe too much.
Hey, OP, no I didn't comment when I re-posted your old post. It took me a while to make sure all the parts of it got "bolded" and then I had to go and do a real life thing.
What struck me is that her rejection of you IS unfair. She seems a little volatile or unstable or something. She did not handle the cub camp issue in the way that I would expect another parent to do. She went straight into over-protective tigress mode, and then I guess felt backed into a corner from which she could not retrieve the friendship.
Fwiw, I still remember being dumped by a schoolfriend almost forty years ago. When I choose to think about it I can still remember my bemusement and hurt and abandonment.
You're not going to get any answers from your old friend. She has carved the friendship out of her life because she cannot work out how to reach you again. Actually her modus operandi, I guess, is to cut and run. She won't be able to renew the friendship with humility and grace.
The bastardy thing is that you would not have predicted it.
I think she's probably acutely embarrassed by her behaviour and is protecting herself from further hurt (having her awful behaviour pointed out) by holding you icily at arm's length.
Hi oblomov, this has happened to me also recently (for the 2nd time with the same friend!)
Our DD's were friends too (not best friends though) but had a "mild" falling out. The good friend who I had become close to was really off with me, cancelled a night out & ignored my texts. She also then started gossiping about me to other moms. However we did eventually make up. It really upset me at the time and I was so glad to make up with her.
However something similar has happened again recently. Our DD's had a disagreeement over another friend. I spoke to my friend about it (big mistake) with the girls present and it seemed to get resolved. It got worse. Both friend and her DD went to some other parents and their DD's and bad mouthed me and my DD again. I found out and spoke to my friend, she verbally attacked me. I told her to get lost and walked away.
Her DD has now formed a "gang" and they are all ignoring my DD. I have not spoken to my friend since. As far as she is concerned her DD is very "popular" and is perfect in every way!
It has upset me but not as much as it had previously. I should have learned my lesson first time around. Her DD is quite manipulative and obviously gets it from her mom.
I personally would not bother trying to get your friendship back, based on my experience anyway.
Antrobus, I didn't think i was jealous. But maybe i am . A tiny bit. not much though.
Heath, I wonder if she is embarrassed. I think she genuinely maybe doesn't even care.
hairbear, so sorry that something similar has happened to you. You do seem to have come to terms with it, more than i have. I am wondering how to put your strength into my situation.
I know I need to let this go. I must. I can't kept harping on about it.
I need to use the technique, of putting this in a box, saying goodbye,and then when those thoughts enter my head, I will try and dismiss them. I know it is hard to do, but I really must do this. I will try.
Oblomov - First time I was devastated. Felt like i''d lost a family member.
But the second time, I think I was more prepared for it. Maybe deep down, perhaps I hadnt let go of the previous hurt.
My husband told me over and over to toughen up. He said I let her walk all over me because I was too nice! I realised he was right.
Well, if she's not embarrassed, maybe it's just anger on her part, like she felt she 'gave in' and apologised too much?
Anyway, try to put it out of mind and maybe just fake breezy and cheerful until you feel it.
I would not slap you, as you are clearly very upset
I have had a few "new" baby-mum friend ships fall by the wayside too, and its a weird one
the friendships are very intense, then they can turn to shit, as often you had fxxk all in common bar your kids to start with
I think the main issue for you is you see her every day, thats the bummer tbh
no advice, but I had similar issues with my neighbours. 3 of them all got weirdly entangled due to one of them having major ishoos, and we all have kids same age. now for various reasons I want nothing to do with any of them
I FUCKING HATE IT! as its ruined where I live now. I actually pray that all 3 sell up/move on as I hate the awkwardness when I seee them
Its sooooo petty, but it has really bugged me so I sympathise alot. I have also wondered why I care so much?
but its your day to day life isnt it
It wasn't me who said the word jealous. Was the poster above me. No, I didn't pick up jealousy from your posts, at all.
I think your ex-friend is a little unstable, and is unable to renew the friendship now that she has crashed through it with anger, swearing and so on.
I think you have been let down, unexpectedly and undeservedly, by this woman whom you believed to be a friend.
Oblomov I really sympathise, it is hard but speaking from my own experience I found that the best thing to do was front it out and apologise - literally said "I value our friendship and I'm sorry for my part in this upset that's been going on" (I didn't detail what I thought 'my part' was, though). Or maybe you could write / email her to the same effect? It's not about saying you we're wrong and she wasn't, it's about finding a way forward that makes life easier for you.
Depending how 'woo' you are you could always try another thing that I did and found very helpful - sat quietly, meditated and imagined meeting my friend and apologising in person, admitted that I was partly to blame and asked for her forgiveness. Even though this only happened in my own head, I found it had an amazing effect on me when I then met her - I no longer felt scared or anxious, it was as if I'd moved on myself so it no longer mattered what she or anyone else thought. Since then I've been able to smile and chat with her in the schoolyard much more easily, although I have no desire to be close friends again, and that suits me fine - the main thing for me is that I no longer dread meeting her or our children playing together etc. I hope that helps. (Unmumsnetty hug)
Thanks everyone - haircare,heath, antrobus, paris and potion .
I make myself sound like such a wet blanket, but actually I'm not. I do have stength and I have good self esteem and do like myself.
But I also hate all this day-to-day shit, that I am kind of bringing on myself.
I have to go to the playground in half and hour and my heart is already racing, I so don't want to go.
But as you said, I can apologise to her. I can do anything really. If it would mean it wasn't this bad, then I am more than prepared to.
And I do think what happened to me was unjust. Of course I do have A part to play. But I don't think I did that much wrong. As I beleive my son did little wrong. But actually, that is just not relevant anymore.
what is important is the here and now, and i have to make that a bit better.
I used to hate the school run. I always tried to arrive late so that I didn't have to hang around with the people whose day revolved around school-gate conversations.
I liked walking away with my DC and talking to them and friends about their day, but the adult to adult interactions were often, erm, underwhelming.
I don't think you're a wet blanket at all - and I also don't think you've done anything terribly wrong. What is important is the outcome you want - if you want things in the playground to be easier then realistically the only way that's going to happen is if you go the extra mile and meet her more than halfway, if that makes sense. You shouldn't have to, I agree, but she obviously feels that she is in the right and that you deserve to be cut off (probably because that's the only way she can justify to herself how she is behaving) so if its ever going to get smoothed over, it's going to be you making the running. It's not fair, but it is the way of the world.
I learned my lesson the hard way - as you are, and I feel for you. These days I try very hard not to take sides, don't get involved in my child's school disputes / friendships and also don't try to get too close to other school mums. I have plenty of good close friends whom I really trust and so I now treat the school mums like work colleagues - people you have to rub along with, nothing more. Yes one of them may turn out to be a lifelong best friend, but they may not.
I hope you can move past this. For me, once I'd said sorry and done the decent thing in saying that I wanted the 'feud' to be over,I felt much lighter knowing that I'd done all I could and that the rest was up to her.
Picture yourself wrapping her and the whole argument in a big blanket, tying it at the top and throwing it into a lake. Let it go. Move on.
Good luck at the school gates, am just off there myself if I can tear my youngest away from his Ben10 DvD that I've let him watch all afternoon while I bugger about on MN .
I thought I ought to tell you thta I woke up at 3am and got up and had a little cry about this all. It is only on MN that I can write this. I can not talk to anyone about it in rl, becasue I talked about it in the summer and people don't wnat to hear, do they? Will you MN'ers pander me on this, please?
After I last posted. Things were just about o.k. They were a bit icy, but she got a new job, not having worked for the last 5 yeras, as a hairdresser, in a salon, so she only did pick up twice a week, as I did too,as I work p/t. She chatted to others. I did too. Once or twice we spoke, but it was very uncomfortable.
Then in Oct, she gave me a birthday card for ds2. Then she rang out of the blue, asking if i wanted her ds2 clothes. she dropped them round in a bag, and I thanked her greatly.
Then becuase of her new job, she was working shifts. Her mum came to do pick ups. I have always got on very well with her mum. But I couldn't understand. her mum walked straight up to me, each time and talked and talked. And then me and her mum met again, on the way to the christmas assembly. She was so nice, as she always had been. And this only compounded the fact that I was confused. Mum talking to me. Friend barely civil. Had my friend not told her mum what had gone on? Then friend gave christmas card. I returned a card.
But during this time, immagining that things were just about o.k. I asked if her ds wanted to come round to play. She gave excuses 3 times. Then I realised i must not ask gain. Maybe he didn't wnat to come. Maybe they didn't want him to come.
I knew not what to do. My ds kept asking wehn he was coming.
I kept thinking about your advice to apologise. I had not needed to before, because things had appeared to be semi-reasonbale. But after we got back after christmas , it seemed particularly icy. I tried atleast 3 times, but it was impossible, she was talking to other people.
Last saturday was my 40th birthday. Dh is taking me to Barcelona, without kids, for 3 days in April. And as a small party, I decided to go out with the girls, for a meal. It was nice. 12 of us. I invited her. by text. but she refused. when I got there. lots of people asked about her, where she was. This made me very sad. Because really she should have been there. Maybe this is why I feel so sensitive about this whole issue, right now.
This saturday is my ds's birthday. I text to invite her son,and 2 others. She agreed.
But I phoned her anyway. Just to tell her that i was very sad. I said i was very sorry. (Not for anything I did, you understand, just sorry that it had tunred out this wasy)
And she told me that she didn't want him to come round because she thought i would grill him about what had happened. What? I never would. she said her dh thought that I wouldn't do that. She said that was why she had been making excuses.
She said they were shcoked when he got invited to ds's party. why? the boys made it up withing a day of being back at school.
She said it was silly to still hold a grudge (I was thinking, I don't hold a grudge, its me pathetically begging you to change things here, when I actually have done little wrong, and that I can't figure out what I actually did wrong, when infatc she did loads, so I can't see that she has any reason to actually hold a grudge).
she says we were both just sticking up for our boys. Well no, actually, you said some terrible things in the summer. I said nothing bad, and then you shouted and swore. I have said or done practically nothing nasty or that i regret.
But anyway. I hoped that the atmosphere would get a little less icy. It hasn't its got worse. she tunred her back on me whilst asking about arrangements , yesterday, for ds's birthday this saturday, and its just getting icier, despite my apology last week.
I never really told you all what happened on cub camp.
She phoned to say that her ds1 didn't want to be friends with my ds1 anymore. my ds (who is weak as a robbin) had bullied her ds all week, on cub camp, he had ruined it for all the boys. She said that he was a brat, a bully, and that all the boys wished he had never gone because he ruined it for them all.She went on and on and on about all the terrible things he had done and how all his classmates felt the same way. I was sobbing and apologising.
I, in shock, questioned ( shouted at ds1 like i have never shouted at him before, and even shoock him by the shoulders, to my shame) , and once gettign more of the story, phoned her back.
Her son, (who was incidentally, was infact fat and got teased, by a few boys, not mine, in reception, which I and all the other parents, told her was totally unacceptable) fell out with ds1, on the second day, when on the first night, my ds had jumped on them all, in his sleeping bag, and ended up hurting her ds. He was told by the scout leader to get back in his bed and told off. Hardly crime of the century. But her ds did infact end up with a big bruise.
The next day , her ds teased my ds and eventually said :
'well your dad's fat'. Then he said it more than 6 times.
Ds asked him to apologise, but he refused. Ds said, you musn't say that about my dad, he is lovely. and if you don't apologise I won't be able to have you round my house, for my birthday party, next year, because i can't take the risk that you won't say it again.
To which her ds responded. I don't wnat to come to your party. I don't want to be your freind.
When I mentioned the your dad is fat comment, to her, her son denied saying it.
Then she said " besides, he's only saying what he's seeing "
yes my dh is fat. But she shouldn't condone her son for teasing my son about it.
I spoke to the cub leader, who said my son, apart from a couple of times of not doing what he was told, was fine all week. Not as friend described then.
Dh says he is not sure about being comfortable with her son. And has asked that I drive the boys to bowling alley, this saturday, becasue he says he is not that comfortable, being with her son at the moment. At first I thought he was being a bit... but then I realised that he is just trying to protect us all, in an icy situation.
Oh god, heaven help me.
I miss her. My friend. I miss her chats and our laughs. I obviously cared more for the freindship than she did. Silly me.
I hate going to pick up in the playground. I want that awful feelign in the pit of my stomach to go away.I have tried to ignore this whole situation, but going to the playground each day, seeing her son, seeing her, just rubs salt into the wounds.
It would be easier if i had fallen out with a freind who lived miles away, but this is everyday.
I just want my son to be o.k.
I just want to make his life easier and don't want him to have the hassle of her and me, to stop his freindships.
I want to have her son round for tea, because thats what my son wants.
I KNOW you must all think I am over emotional. I realise i am.
But this whole thing is such a mess.
It is beyond my social skills (which are clearly limited, or else I wouldn't have got into this mess) to work out what to do, for the best, for me, my son, the situation, everything.
Oh please Mn'ers. Give me some advice. Help me. Talk straight to me. Give me a slap. I am sobbing even now. Quite pathetic.
Blimey, just gone through your whole thread. Totally exhausting for me just reading it, can't begin to imagine how you've coped living it.
But clearly you're not coping. To be this upset over the loss of a friendship is not healthy. For your own state of mind (and probably for your family who must be affected by this mess too) you have GOT to get over this woman.
Forget about why you were friends in the first place and how lovely and close you were. Too much has now happened for you to go back there. From what you say, you sound like very different people who don't seem to understand each other at all. On that basis, were you really as 'close' as you think you were?
Move on. Wipe her and her sons from your mind. Talk to other people at the school gate. Doesn't matter who they are or whether you actually want to talk to them, just make the effort in front of her to be normal, to look like the loss of your friendship means nothing to you anymore. It seems to me that you're hoping that one day she'll realise how foul and unreasonable she's been, but that is just not going to happen.
She is one mum out of god knows how many at that school - find someone else to be friends with and the same goes for her sons. It doesn't sound like your children can be friends without this impacting on your relationship with her. So, whilst the boys can be friends in school, don't encourage any outside contact. Don't invite them to anything. Don't be unpleasant, don't bitch about her, just don't acknowledge her existence.
Eventually after acting as if you don't care, you will wake up one day and realise that you REALLY don't care. You will have got over this and you'll once again be the happy,strong, confident woman I'm sure you really are.
I sympathise, having been dumped by a good friend in the past for no reason I could fathom. Luckily I didn't have to see her because we lived in different areas so I'm sorry this is dragging on for you.
Hopefully someone will have better advice, but for me I started feeling better after I 'let go'. I started to feel better about myself because I realised in the last few years of our friendship I was sensing disapproval from her and often came away from our meetings/conversations feeling deflated. Now I concentrate on people who make me feel good and I'm a lot happier for it.
I can't really see your friendship getting back to what it was - all the laughing together etc. It would probably just end up as a bit of a millstone around you neck, so my advice: put her in the past and move on.
Good advice from Kikithecat. We've all had friendships that haven't worked out for some reason or another. The thing is realising that sometimes those friendships are worth fighting for but sometimes they're not. Even as adults, we're all changing constantly - not necessarily our personalities but our circumstances. Having children, getting new jobs, moving house - all these type of things contribute to our friendships and mean that, as adults, we have to learn to deal with evolving relationships.
Your going through a tough time at the moment but you will get over this and look back and wonder why you let it affect you so much. You're grieving the loss of the relationship rather than this particular woman so find something/someone to take her place. If not another friend, then take up an activity that keeps you busy and takes your mind away from your lost friendship.
from the off it seems it was all a shock to you, the attacks verbally. seems like it floored you, and I think your grief for it all lies in the fact you didn't understand where the vitriol came from and why.
In your first post on that other thread, what comes thru is your inability to understand why and how it has got to this.
Months have passed op. You must let it go. Why bother with it? What is it causing you other than a messed up head.
Leave it, and stop questioning it all, it's a mess. Sit down close you eyes, think to yourself, I will let this go, i will let this drop, it's taking too much out of me.
You aren't her she isnt you, you can't seem to agree on any of it.
This woman is a BITCH. I know you want everything to be ok and you loved her and everything, but she is a BITCH and you need to stop contacting her at all. Why on earth did you invite her to your birthday dinner? She must have been baffled. You are like a puppy waiting to be kicked.
This woman is not your friend. She does not want to be your friend. You are acting in an unhinged way, almost begging her to treat you badly. I understand that icy silence is uncomfortable for you in the playground, but FGS accept the situation for what it is. It is never going to be ok between you. Never. Don't invite her to anything and accept that any friendship between your children and hers will happen at school etc and not in your homes. Your children will be much happier if you stop showing them that this relationship with their friends' mother is so important to you.
You need to hold your head up high and act like someone who is in control of themself and has moved on from a difficult situation. Talk to other people in the playground if you want to, or arrive just before pick up time and stand by yourself just focussing on your children. Whatever - the important thing is to act the part of someone who is not obsessed with another person. It will feel hard and unnatural but the longer you act the part, the more you will feel it and start to move on. At the moment you are feeding the fire.
Thank you both.
LostinLondon, I am so sorry it is so long and draining. I apprecaite it is.
You are both so very right.
I need to let go. I have no idea why I have been unable to. whats's wrong with me? I am not even sure that i know how to let go: Just to stop thinking thinking about her, her son etc. And every time i do, just to stop myself. And like you said, focus on other things and other people, so that she fades more and more. This is what I HAVE to do, right?
"Eventually after acting as if you don't care, you will wake up one day and realise that you REALLY don't care. You will have got over this and you'll once again be the happy,strong, confident woman I'm sure you really are."
I PROMISE, I will try. I know I am a good friend and I KNOW I didn't deserve this shit. I need to be stronger, to not let it/her get to me.
I will really try.
Thank you Piratecat and ProvincialLady. You of course both speak sense.
I am "feeding the fire". Of course I am, how could I not see this. I should be ashamed.
Of course you are right. what a twat. It was dh who finally said I should invite her. so I could hold my head up high and know that I did the right thing. But as you said, what a lapdog, just waiting for another kicking.
I must appear so pathetic.
i have been dumped by my best friend years ago. For no good reason it seemed. She just wasn't interested anymore, and i loved her so much and it was the the not understanding, that was the biggest problem for me.
I don't think anyone knows 'how' to move on, we can simply use tools, like i said, like affirmations do help. They call it almost re wiring our thinking, honestly it works!
'I did what i could, it hurt, it hurts, but i know i did what i could'
'she is not my responsibility, i cannot make her understand my hurt'
'i will move through this, it will get better, it will not shape my world'
and it will op.
You are NOT pathetic! Just very sad. And now that has to stop.
you aren't pathetic, don't say that. it's a learning process this life. not everyone is equipped with the tools to face things in the same way as the next person.
it depends on self esteem, on what role you have played in life, to other people.
I am a nurturer. I have had many people rely on me, as i am reliable, yet tho i wouldn't change this, i have had to learn, that others may not operate this way. I sometimes feel pathetic, and blame myself for stuff, but then, when i am really down think. 'hey hang on a minute, it's not me it's them' i 'know' i have done my best.
it takes work.
"'hey hang on a minute, it's not me it's them' i 'know' i have done my best.
it takes work. "
I know this. I do have self esteem. I know I am a good freind. It is just this bit, the bit that you say takes work, that I need to work on this. I recognise this. I will try and instill it as a 'mantra', and then when I get hacked off, I will have to try and remember to think of that mantra.
You don't sound pathetic. You sound like a good, loyal decent person who has been badly hurt by all of this.
But, I don't see how this relationship can move forward from here - too much has happened, too much has been said and some things are just beyond repair. It is horrible and upsetting and it hurts. But rather than thinking of ways to fix it, I think what would be more helpful would be to think of ways to enable you to cope with your new emotional landscape that doesn't include this woman as a friend. Quite apart from anything else, would you really want someone in your life who has caused you so much heartache? We need people around us who are good to us and good for us, and to be honest she sounds like she fits neither of those criteria. By distancing yourself, you are protecting yourself and looking at the wider picture of your life by protecting yourself you are also protecting your family and keeping them happy.
Keep telling yourself this, when you have moments of doubt. The fall-out didn't happen because you were a bad person, or weak, or any of that. It happened because she was vile to you, and now having given her the chance of an honest dialogue she has instead chosen to save face. These are not the actions of someone that you want around you. So reject her. She is no good for you. When you smile and nod at her and keep her at arms' length from now on, don't think of it as being something that you have lost. Think, instead, that she is a person that has been tested and found wanting. You do not need her in your life, and you are making a conscious decision to keep things that way. What she thinks and what her take on the whole matter is irrelevant - you are deciding what to do; you are the one in charge of your life and this includes being in charge of how to treat her. Which is, with civility because you are dignified, but no more than that because she has by her own actions made sure that you remove her from your inner circle.
Thank you. You give me perspective that I seem to lack.
we all lack perspective until we ask for a bit of perspective!!
That is true of some of us, more than others!!
You're not remotely pathetic. Just in need of a good slap - delivered as requested! Now you can either choose to hold up your head or you can spend another few months berating yourself and not moving on. It really is your choice. Good luck.
I can understand why you have found this difficult as this also affects your ds plus you have the added turmoil of seeing her at pick up times, which tbh can be like pulling teeth at the best of times.
Does your school offer a kids club? is it possible until you adjust to the change in your friendship, that you could maybe have your ds attend an afterschool club during the two days your ex friend does her school pick up? I generally wouldn't suggest anything like this but as it's really affecting you desperate times call for desperate measures.
I do feel for you, this must be a really difficult situation especially as your two dc seem to be really good friends.
slap gratefully received.
Gravy. That is a good idea, re the after school club. There is one. I have used it for years. I now work 3 days p/t and do not need it, on a weekly basis. But I do need it for holidays to cover my 3 days.
Infact her kids now go there, as she has this new salon job. (which I am sure is cash in hand. Her dh was was threatening her that they would lose the house unless she did something. Oblomov dismisses nasty thoughts of revenge - dobbing her in to the authorities, for cash in hand work/claiming benefites aswell etc... nasty nasty thoughts Oblomov, don't go there.... sorry)
So our kids may be at after school club together during holidays. Oh dear. Thats not good.
But I could still use it immediately, on the days I don't work, just to avoid her. But dh would think I was mad to waste money on this, if i mentioned this to him, surely?
oh darling, you are so hurt by this - traumatised by the sound of it - but what I found so hard to read, which made me wince, was how viciously you beat yourself up! Step back, look at how you're talking about yourself. You have to be your friend, otherwise what hope do you have.
Now take that oblomov and give her a cuddle and a bit of space. She is hurting so bad . Be kind to her. Beating her up is not going to get her any closer to getting over this trauma.
And trauma it is. It doesnt matter if it doesn't 'make sense' - if you had a ski-ing accident and you were still hurting bad 6 months later, then you would conclude that something had obviously been damaged more than you initially thought. Same with emotions. You wouldn't be beating yourself up if you were still hurting 6 months after a ski-ing accident, so don't beat yourself up now.
Time to start accepting oblomov. You are grieving, this has hurt you deeply - accept that, accept her (you, that is). I know it's the old saw but I would consider getting some therapy to get some professional perspective on why this has hurt you so deeply. yy losing a close friends hurts unimaginably and will always be sore (imo) but you need some support to get over this. YOu'd go to a back doctor if your back was hurting after 6 months, same with your mind/emotions. I'm amazed people don't do the obvious on this, personally - ie get to a specialist.
ONe of your first posters said you love(d) her. No shame in that, I love my friends. I really do. Nothing wrong or right about that. To lose someone you love, a relationship you cherished, is very hard, right up there, so give yourself a break sweetie.
oblomov earlier, you said you had no-one in rl to talk to because you talked to them in the summer and 'people don't want to hear, do they?'
Something there struck me that you feel quite abandoned with this pain and rejection and you're looking for someone to explain it and help you deal with it.
I'm sorry you feel so hurt. It will get better.
ob /manly type punch on shoulder. This exactly the sort of mental snafu I would end up, I just seem to get a bit intense about rejection, and dwell on it, I know the best revenge is living well and having a fab life without ex-friend but it takes work to convince yourself of that.
Btw I agree with your DH about feeling uncomfortable around this child - whether this lad is a habitual liar, or the ex-friend is an unpleasant drama queen, it sounds like they are a family best avoided outside school, given the history.
Thanks for the posts springy, julie and lightpassenger.
I will try to cut myslef some slack.
I don't want to talk to anyone about it in rl, becuase I think I should have dealt with it already. But I certainly will deal with it now.
I will try not to dwell. I have done that for too long, far too long.
I can relate to op with the feeling of abandonment in this relationship.
Oblomov, I've had to work very hard on the things i have mentioned to you, and i realised that some of the things that have happened to me ARE because of a deep rooted feeling of being abandoned when i was young.
Being ignored etc...
Hence i feel my dealing with my husband leaving 8 yrs ago, it took yrs to get over the feeling of being let down and not understanding.
It's ok not to understand, it will take time but it will feel better.
I think I should have dealt with it already
But I certainly will deal with it now
I will try not to dwell
I have done that for too long, far too long
There you go again!!
GIVE YOURSELF A BREAK
BE KIND TO YOURSELF
STOP BEATING YOURSELF UP
(sorry to shout)
oh that didn't make sense. I have just found getting over things like this have hit me very personally inside, through a fear of not being understood or valued.
best cook tea!
Springy, (laughing at the shouting.)it is only because my mum and my best friend said, around the start of the term , in Sept, that I had to let this go and that i should have let this go by now.
So I was being told that it is normal to have let this go by this time. which I seemed unable to do.
Thats not beating myself up. It was me being told that people expected me to have gotten over it.
'should', 'ought' etc don't really help. if it hurts, it hurts. you need acceptance and support
Really know how you're feeling I have a very similar situation going on. I know the woman is trouble from what i've seen and I don't know why i'm bothered our friendship is not what it was but I hate the icy, awkward atmosphere and I have no idea why she doesn't like me or go all to exclude me!
Oblomov, I wonder if you're missing the fact that you were also, around the same time, finding out that your marriage wasn't quite as you thought? Have I got that right? Sorry if not.
I was just thinking what a tremendous shock it is to discover your emotional world isn't as steady as you believed. We bandy the words "cognitive dissonance" around a lot these days, but sometimes forget how extremely hard it is to resolve. If both your home life and your relationship with this friend were turning upside-down in a similar time frame, then the one would have seemed to amplify the pain from the other.
I agree, you need to ease up on yourself over this and allow yourself to grieve. All the best.
Manic, I am so very sorry that you are experiencing similar. I hope you can also take some of the very good advice I have been given.
Garlic, thank you for your post, but I think you may have me confused with someone else. As far as I KNOW, all is o.k. In my marriage.
OK, you asked for a slap... I really think you need to get a grip. Your posts draining to read, this woman probably feels scared that she's going to wake up one night to find you standing over her bed or something. The whole thing is so intense.
Firstly, you are way too involved in your children's social lives (incidentally the conversation at cub camp where your DS supposedly said to her DS that he couldn't take the risk of having his father insulted at his birthday party does not ring true for children of that age). Continue to invite ex-friend's DCs to events if your DCs want them there. Do it all by text and keep to the logistics. No calls. If your kids need to go to aftter school club, send them. It doesn't matter whether this woman is there or not. You don't need to avoid her, you just need to avoid talking to her.
Secondly, you really seem to be wallowing in this and I think on some level you are getting something out of it. Are you just a drama llama or are you using this situation to distract you from some other issue you don't wan't to face? This is exactly the sort of drama I remember having with my friends when we were 13/14, at an all-girls school and unconsciously practising with each other for the emotional relationships we would later have with men. Lots of angst, woe, promises of being special to each other, BEST friends, huge fallings-out, dramatic reconciliations, long letters and phone calls to each other about feelings etc. You are a grown woman, married with children. This behaviour is unseemly. Next time you feel teary about this, STOP. Imagine you are trying to land a helicopter or get a splinter out of your child's foot or chair a meeting or some other situation where you simply can't afford to dissolve in tears. Bite your lip, look up at the sky, and change the subject. Sod "grieving". Nobody has died. She's just some woman from the school gates who you used to be friendly with because your DCs are the same age and now you've fallen out. Happens all the time.
Finally, your DH is uncomfortable being in car with a 7yo who may have called him fat last year? Have I understood that right? If so, he also massively needs a grip.
Hope this helps - I really do wish you well but my god, woman! Sort yourself out before you waste any more potentially happy days!
I think idreamed overstates the case somewhat. This is hard for you. You went on holiday with the woman , spent a lot of time with her, shared a lot. She was a very close friend. How ever, you have what sounds like a great dh, and two fab ds. Take solace in that. It is more than many have. Maybe you could do more as a family in your free time, to distract you from sadness about the friendship? Take care, and good luck.
ah Ive been through similar and I was shellshocked and devastated. The atmoshphere at school pick is awful and our ds's are best friends. My friend and I were so close or so I thought although I knew she had a jealous /unkind streak in her and the worst thing is we have so many mutual friends that I dont know where to turn as I dont know what she has said to whom. She decided to drop me , Im not sure exactly why but told other mutual friends that I had done it to her ( the friends told me as they knew I wouldnt have done). But now I dread pick ups as Ive no idea what other lies shes told and to whom and I hate the fact people may think im so childish as to engage in stupid games. Anyway I just am hoping I can get it to the stage of speaking without the icyness and little put downs ( her not me) and get on with it but I never want her as a friend again and I look at it now as you should as a lesson learnt. I feel liek its good that I learnt this before I invested anymore time in her and it frees me up to make other friends who may be more genuine , good luck, youre not alone in this
Come on, it's been SIX MONTHS. Correct me if I'm wrong but I've understood from the OP's that the initial row was early last summer!
Hi OP, I was on the thread back in November and have just found your updates.
This friendship is NEVER EVER going to go back to what it was. Your friend is unfathomable, to me anyway. Clearly she is still holding some kind of hurt about the cub camp fallout. She thinks you will grill her son over an incident at that happened at cub camp months ago? Does that mean that she knows she exaggerated the events (and made some bits up as well) and fears she'll be found out? I think she is quite strange actually, and she is giving you mixed messages with the cast-off clothes followed by the iciness. For what it's worth, I think the fact that her DM talks to you just means that the DM is chilled and, erm, normal.
Your friend has treated you badly. You did not deserve it nor expect it. I said that before.
Try to let it go. Do not engage with her at all. Let the boys sort out their friendship themselves.
With all sympathy to you, op, I do feel that idreamedadream is on the right lines. It could be the very intensity of your feelings that is causing some of the confusing behaviour from your former friend. It seems to me that it is time (way past time, in fact) to stop analysing the reasons for her behaviour and the way things went wrong in your relationship, and to look instead at what it is in you that makes you so obsessed about this friendship.
Reading your incredibly intense posts it does really seem that they are communicating more about you than about the problematic events that were so distressing for you. Continuing to analyse the breakdown of this friendship so obsessively seems like a distraction from things about yourself that might be causing you unhappiness.Going over and over it seems almost like a fantasy -- a very painful rather than a source of pleasure, of course, but one that is a kind of escapism from whatever issues in your life made you need so very much more from this friendship than seems ever to have been realistic.
None of that makes me have any less sympathy for you. It is obviously incredibly painful, and I really hope that you do start to feel able to move on soon.
Hi Oblomov, I was on your thread last year too and remember it well. Sorry to hear things haven't got better but I do agree that it's time to let it go. You need to find a way to recognise that this woman is, as others have said, a bitch. Se was never the friend / person you thought she was. You are better off without her as a friend and it sounds as if the whole family is best avoided. fWiW I would be civil, polite but distant with her so that you know you have always done the right thing / been the bigger person, not for her sake or the sake of the friendship but for the sake of your own sanity, self esteem and confidence.
I really think you need some kind of closure on this - I'm a big fan of rituals whether imagined or real, picturing throwing the whole argument / friendship/ situation off a cliff or into a lake would work, or write her a letter telling how you feel and how disappointed you are in her and what a shit friend she turned out to be - and then BURN IT!!!! Do something, then act on it. Let go. You cannot fix this or do anything to get things back to how they were before - know when to walk away. And then see what you've learned from it. It's all good life experience
FWiW I still feel awkward with the mum at school I fell out with a year ago, so I avoid her if I can and am civil / polite when I can't. I still want to shout and swear at her, but I know it wouldn't help. Seems its best to do what makes your life easier sometimes, rather than what would be 'fair'. You deserve better friends than this my dear, and once you refuse to be treated like this by people, the better friends will come along.
Good luck ((hug))
Actually, rereading your update, it seems that she has been perfectly civil, and even tried to show polite friendship by passing on old clothes. She has accepted a texted invite for son to attend a party, she hasn't done anything to sour your frienship with her mum. And then you have called her to bring up the events of the past, and then she has been cagey.
TBH I'm not surprised she talks to you about you holding a grudge. She has tried to move forward with a cool but civil friendship and you have undermined that by returning to the past. You can see a constructive reason for that return because you want to return to an old intimacy (that perhaps she didn't ever value as much as you do in any case); but it wouldn't be surprising if, to her, it seemed like a destructive niggling -- you can't leave the past alone with her so she doesn't trust you not to leave it alone with her son if he comes to your house. You really REALLY do have to let go of the past.
I can understand not getting over this sort of thing. I am similar but have got better with age. However, I suspect I use avoidance of forming friendships as a strategy to prevent this sort of thing .
However, some people you can't avoid and we have a family member who causes issues like this.
After many years, the penny suddenly dropped. Some people are just LIKE this.
They are the ones who are always 'not speaking' to somebody or other. They are compelled to cause ructions and upset, often in the guise of 'just sticking up for themselves'.
I used to think our family member enjoyed it, had to have the drama, actually NEEDED to have outrage to chat about to her (current) friends or people in favour. Then I realised that a traumatic upbringing was also behind most of her behaviour. I guess she just feels that attack is the best form of defence. She grew up being so used to attack that I think she needs to get in there first - a sort of self-sabotage before it all goes wrong.
It's hard to deal with but I do feel very sorry for her. She is also a lovely person and fantastic, funny company, which is very confusing!
Thank you for the posts from :Idreamed, Laura, Neon, Antrobus, floaty and potion.
I did read Idreamed 1st post just before going to bed. I thought she was a bit harsh. But she had some very valid points.
I have to correct her on not believing the words ds used. ds1 is 9. He has Aspergers, but it is very very mild and at cub camp & summer club run by council ( both last summer) they both said they couldn't tell he was autistic. But sometimes, not all the time, he talks like a little old man (classic Aspergers trait) "After careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion....", "I think this is symptomatic of the whole core problem". He says things like that. And he is very protective of dh and ds2. So I TOTALLY beleived what he said he had said.
By the way, I am not alone , in my 'troubles'. 3 people have PM to say they are going through exactly tthe same thing. Many others on the thread have said they have had similar problems. Even Laura0806 is experiencing similar.
However, I do appreciate that I should have got over this by now. The original problem is 6 mths ago. I appreciated it back in October, when I started this thread, and people said the same thing back then, that I really need to get over it. Which is why I am kind of cross with myself and embarrassed, that I haven't got over it. Come on woman. I KNOW I need to.
Even Floaty said about how intense I am . I know this. I can do small talk but deep down I crave intense freindships, close ones where you really get to know someone, they confide in you. But I appreciate that this is what I like. And I have to check in on my intenseness, so that I don't overwhelm.
I had 12 people at my 40th, last weekend. My best freind (who I met at uni, 20 years ago) couldn't come because her son, my godson was in hospital with suspected crohns. My oldest friend from school was there. my sil and niece. 4 of my ds2 PN group. 2 ladies I have met from ds2's recent nursery. An old friend who I met 10 years ago, who grew up with dh. My old work colleague that I met 7 years ago. So I do have a variety of friends.
Potion said I needed to let go. Back in October , someone said similar, about wrapping it up in blanket, and letting go. I don't know why I didn't heed, or action that advice then. I knew it was sensible. I do know I have difficulty letting go. I will try and work on this. very hard.
Floaty, it was this thread, back in October, that suggested i apologise to her.
I only did what the thread , back in October had suggested.
Is it worth, perhaps, paying for some sessions with a counsellor to try to work through why the ending of this friendship is affecting you so badly? Clearly you do have friends from different areas of your life. Your birthday dinner illustrates that. Yet this poisoned friendship with this volatile woman has affected you quite deeply.
It's all very well for people like me to tell you to let it go. Clearly it isn't easy for you to do that. You say that you will try and work on it (the letting go) but actually "letting go" only requires detachment, not "work".
Do you feel a loyalty to this friendship? As if you should get to the bottom of the conflict in order either to understand the reasons, or to repair the damage? Or do you feel angry and want to put her right? Or hurt, and want her to be contrite?
I don't know where I am going with those questions, by the way! Maybe just offering you some suggestions to understand why it goes so deep.
I used to be a lot like this OP. To some extent I still am. Obsessing and worrying and self-blaming about the end of friendships.
It's funny you should mention your DS having Aspergers, because I'm pretty sure I've got a touch of it myself, and a couple of bells rang there- both the way he speaks like a little adult (I used to do that!), and the whole heart-pounding anxiety that you yourself suffer in socially difficult situations. Sounds very familiar to me!
I think that the reason that these kind of issues used to affect me so much was that I took it all on board, and blamed myself. I was constantly searching for a rational answer as to why someone should behave like that to me. I also could see no resolution to a friendship dispute other than refusing to speak to them ever again, and blanking them whenever I saw them-what a waste of energy!
But I'm a lot better at dealing with this kind of thing nowadays. I have just cultivated an attitude of indifference. Sometimes I literally visualise a wall between me and the difficult person- we are no longer connected, we are distanced.
Every time a friend does something I find distressing, I constantly remind myself not to take it personally, that people just are like that.
And, now that I have been able to distance myself more from these upsetting situations, it has become easier to maintain the pleasant yet formal relationships that we need to cultivate in this kind of situation- where we will still constantly be bumping into the ex-friend, and need to "get on" on a superficial level.
Oblomov, can I just say something?
If anyone ever shouted or swore at me for any reason at all, then I would not want to be their friend. End of. Even if I get upset with someone, I don't shout or swear and I don't expect anyone else to either. I would think a person like that might explode on me at any time and life is too short to put up with people like that.
If one of my boys bullied a friend's ds, I would expect that my friends would first of all, make sure that the bullying had in fact taken place, then I would expect that she would ring me and talk calmly about it, like two adults.
She's not worth it, Oblomov, she really sound far more trouble than she's worth.
Antrobus, I was having CBT, at the time this hapepned. The reason I was having CBT was becasue my diabetes(which I have had since aged 1) has become so brittle, so hard to manage, that I am having regular hypos, permanently tired. My diabetic consultant & I have tried everyhting, over the last 10 years. She now knows not what to do with me.
Alongside this, with my extreme tiredness, I find my Aspergers son very hard to deal with.
My GP and my consulatnt sent me to CBT. In the end CBT dismissed me, me having gained very little from it, she basically said I coped well in difficult circumstancesand that CBT had little to offer me. She said I was neither anxious nor depressed. MY GP and my consultant agreed.
When the friend phone call hapened, the day after, was my sCBT ession. I talked about nothign else. cried. she said I was completely justified in my feelings.
She did not offer any other suggestions.
stubbornstains :"whole heart-pounding anxiety that you yourself suffer in socially difficult situations", do you mena the fatc thta i gett he feeling in the pit of my stomach when I think about the icy atmosphere i am about to endure, at pick up?
I have never felt this before. I never get nervous going to a party. Even if i don't know anyone i don't mind. I'm no shrinking violet, thats for sure. I have not expereinced anxiety or nervousness before. So this is very strange for me.
I know Chip. Tell herself "I know this. I knwo this. I am so better than this"
I am just going to log off for a bit. Think about what you have all said.
This sounds like a childish spat between two boys that has escalated into a war by your "friend's" actions.
You need to let go (easier said than done). Her actions are totally disproportionate to what happened. You can't fix that.
You need to mourn for the passing of the relationship you thought you had and find new stuff to do.
Don't blame yourself, I have limited social skills as well, but I don't think anyone could rectify your friend's response or behaviours.
You can't fix your friend.
If you are having trouble reconciling your negative feelings (anxiety etc) you might like to try meditation exercises. You can get CDs and things off Amazon - they help you calm down. They may also help your son - my hyper daughter now has a meditation CD (they do them for children) which she does each night - it has helped her be less scatty and intense.
You may also benefit from Music Therapy as well as CBT. It is very calming.
It does sound as though what happened with your friend has activated a negative core belief you hold (this might be something like "I am unloveable"). Even though you say your self-esteem is generally good I wonder if you suffer from latent low self-esteem which is activated by incidents such as this. You might find it helpful to read "Overcoming low self-esteem" by Melanie Fennell (?I think) and to consider some CBT addressing this specifically.
Hope you feel better after you have logged out. Dont be harsh on yourself. I agree, as you do, that you have to move on but it is very very hard when your lives are so entwined via the school. The problem with my friend started last sept/october and I still spend a lot of time thinking about as its very hard to draw a line under it when I see her at least twice a day at school pick ups and frineds invite us to the same events. She hurt me badly but like you I have to think about why I let a friend be able to hurt me so badly, why did I let her get so close maybe at the expense of making other friends. I think like you I always have quite intense close frienships and thats just the kind of person I am ,although I do have many other, less close friendships. My advice is just to get out there and make other friends but be more discerning , When I look back I can see signs that my exfriend wasn't maybe as nice as I thought ( comments she made, loooks she gave) and I would just try to make a wider network of friends and not focus on one/two people. ALso as another frined says, it is her loss really not yours. I knwo that I would have done anything for my friend , was very fond of her children and would always support her unconditionally. I doubt she has many other people who would do that for her. Take the assets you bring to friendships and find ther people to share them with. Put on a mask when you see this friend, be smiley, polite but keep your distant and dont bring anything up with her again.
Oblomov, you ARE better than this!
The fact that she's fallen out with you, well, given what she sounds like, it was going to happen sooner or later. I had a friend once who would be friends with a person for a while, then all of a sudden she would fall out with them and REALLY fall out. After I saw it happen with a few of her friends, I eventually backed away and distanced myself because I could see a pattern. This won't be the first time this has happened with your friend, there will have been other victims along the way.
It's not you, really it isn't.
And the person you miss, that's the person she appeared to be. Unfortunately it's not who she actually is. That's the facade she puts up to get people to like her, far different from the screaming harridan she really is.
Oblomov, it was me on the previous thread who recommended wrapping it a blanket and throwing it all in a lake or similar kind of visualisation - I really think it could help you to do something like this or as someone up thread suggested, some meditation exercises.
I also suggested apologising, which I now feel a bit guilty about as things haven't turned out well. However I do agree that your (ex) friend seemed to have started being civil again and that when you apologised to her (from what you say) it seems as if you took the opportunity to stick the boot in again and dredge up the past things that she did to upset you in the first place. Surely the point of an apology was to wipe the slate clean, not drag things up again? She must feel that you just can't leave it alone and won't let it lie. That's probably why she thinks things would get nasty again if she / her son got close to you / your son again, and has now decided to cut you off again. This may sound harsh but from an objective viewpoint you can hardly blame her. You're never going to get an apology from her, and things are never going to go back to the way they were, so the more you do to try and get her to apologise or admit fault is only making things even worse.
You seem to be finding it very hard to let go two things - firstly the friendship and secondly the wrong that she did to you. Do you want her friendship back or to punish her? You can't have both! These are two separate things and maybe you need to deal with them separately? I do think counselling / CBT / coaching or something like that would really help you get not just some perspective but also some practical positive advice and actions you can take to move forwards. I think you need to draw a line under it, and get some help in rl, so that you can get some support to move on. The more energy you put into this the more you're stirring up. You need to put your energy into something else, enjoy the fact that you have other friends and accept that this friendship is over. Sorry if that's harsh, but whether it's her 'fault' or yours, that's just the way it is. You need to learn from this and don't repeat the same mistakes again. And make sure you're kind to yourself while you do it It's a horrible situation and must be so draining. Look after yourself, and use your 40th birthday as a chance to make a fresh start, eh? x
I can relate Oblomov, I really liked both members of a couple at the school gate but they were insincere types and the guy started blanking me, and it's seven years ago and hundreds of miles away but it still hurts, I still have to block them on Facebook to stop myself looking at their lived and feeling bitter about the friendship going wrong!
Also my dh is heartbroken about a good colleague/friend of his who doesn't return his calls any more, it's a mystery why and it's eating him up, to the extent I want to see this woman and give her a good slap for not being a good friend.
Just a shame society only has certain proscribed relationships you're supposed to obsess over, usually sexual ones. But the heart loves who it loves, it's not about sex.
Sorry you broke your heart over your friend,... Just think you are better off without her if she's a screaming effing and blinding harridan when crossed, that would be off putting for anyone. Think how you save yourself from dealing with her further tirades by not being friends any more. Silver lining and all.
Oblomov, I have only just come across your thread.
I just wanted to say it sounds crappy for you. I don't know how you are going to move on from this, but you have to for your own sake.
To be quite honest, your former friend sounds a bit scummy by the way she acted. I wouldn't want a friend like that. I wouldn't bother inviting her to things again, nor would I invite her DS.
Can you maybe try to reward yourself for not thinking about this for say, a whole day, then a whole weekend, and so on?
"Do you want her friendship back or to punish her?" Neither. I did not want her friendship back. And I certainly didn't want to punish her. I just wanted us to be civil and pleasant and for our boys to carry on being best friends. I only apologised to her thinking that it would make the icy situation a bit better. That was my only reason. Honestly. But all I did was make a hash of it and make it all worse.
My ds is insistent that her ds is his best friend and he was the first person that my son said he wanted to come to his 'party'.
I am unable to say anything about this to ds. What could you possibly say? And if he keeps asking and i just ignore his requests, don't you think that in the end he's going to say "mum, why can't x come round anymore".
What do all suggest I do next year for ds's birthday? How could you possibly explain to a little boy that he can't have his best friend to his party?
just invite the little boy, via normal invite with everyone else to next years party. If she says no she says no and you can tell your little boy that sadly he cant make it. I just sent invites to my friends sons and she had the cheek not to reply but then send them with their dad! Just treat your son like a normal child. I suspect that by the time next years birthday comes round she will send him but just send the invites out like everyone elses. Playdates are trickier , I would just encourage him to invite other people , children can often be distracted, well certainly my ds is
Beryl: I will try and not think about it/her. How can I not invite her ds?
Green: sorry you and your dh had similar.
Potion : I hear what you are saying. See my post above re, thinking i was doing the right thing, but getting it so very wrong.
Thanks Chip and Laura.
Lizza and Miggsie, I have already had CBT and was told I was neither anxious nor depressed. In fact I was also assessed by the top Clinical Pyschatrist at Kings College Hospital, in relation to how my diabetes affected me, my life etc, and her report said I showed esteem and not anxiety or depression. But that I had trouble coping with current issues, my sons diagnossi (have you ever been on the sn section, do you know that some people struggle for more than 2 years , like me to get a diagnosis for my son. I felt she was extremely dismissive).
So no, I know i am not unloveable. I still don't beleive I have esteem issues. Unless I am in total denial. I know I have faults, but i know I make a great friend, loyal, and I have confidence in my skills and personality, and i know above all, that I am a good person, extremely honourable and try to treat others .... do you want me to go on listing my good qualiteis? Because i can.
I will text and nothing else. Just send invite next year, nothing more.
Agreed, playdates are more difficult. He has 4 other friends. I will just invite those.
Lovely to see you listing your good points Oblomov, and sounding positive about it. I didn't mean to be harsh, perhaps I'm giving you advice that I'm really giving to myself IYSWIM? What a shame things went so wrong. I wonder if there's a part of you that just couldn't help having another go because you feel so wronged - if that's the case then writing it all out, the whole rant that you would like to have at her, and then burning it, could be really cathartic. You sound like you have some stuff raging inside, and it always helps to get it out in a safe way.
And I think you're right, you simply need to start afresh with a more positive attitude at the school gates, be civil and polite, don't worry about next year's party, that's a long way off. Keep play dates to other friends for now and give yourself time to breathe a bit. Things will get easier. In the meantime I do think a ritual of closure of some kind would help you tell your subconscious that you've had enough and are ready to move on now. Good luck. It WILL get better!
stubbornstains :"whole heart-pounding anxiety that you yourself suffer in socially difficult situations", do you mena the fatc thta i gett he feeling in the pit of my stomach when I think about the icy atmosphere i am about to endure, at pick up?
Yes, that's exactly it. Sorry, I was having real difficulty finding the words to express myself in that last post.
I guess it would be what CBT practitioners would call "hot thoughts", wouldn't it? One example that I've had would be someone who was once a v.close friend, who let me down very badly, and whom I realise did not regard me with the same closeness as I did her. Sometimes when I think about her I get disproportionately angry, but I just remember: "distance yourself...stay calm.....calm...friendly but not close". I try to stay as dispassionate as possible, and keep telling myself that she's not necessarily a bad person, just bad for me, if that makes any sense.
i got dumped by a best friend and i felt like id been dumped by a boyfriend. It hurts.
Oooh, Oblomov, I've read the whole thread and I get the impression that there are all sorts of other issues at play here: I feel that you have quite low self-esteem and this woman made you feel a lot more confident - and now that she has dumped you (in a pretty vicious way), you've not only lost a person you cared about but a new lease of life.
She isn't the person you believed her to be. Things will get better, she will get bored of being unpleasant if you keep neutral and unresponsive to it. Lots of deep breaths and painted on smiles. Don't expect the worst at the school gate and see if you can pick up any new friends to help you through the awkward bits. Good luck
oooh lalalonglegs youve def hit the nail on the head with me and I suspect the OP. I dont have low self esteem but my firend gave me a new lease of life ( lots of friends I dont click with, not so good marriage). When she ditched me it was like I lost that new lease of life and realised I had put such a lot into that one person. ANyway, dont want to hijack the thread but you certainly were spot on with me and I think your advice to the OP is great. Lets put on the painted smiles ( v v hard) but a lesson we have to learn!!!
Thank you for clarifying about your DS, Oblomov. I know what you mean when you say he can talk like a little old man at times!
Regarding the rest of it. I don't have anything to add to my earlier post. I'm sorry you found it harsh but I do think you have lost perspective on this. I hope things get easier for you
I just read the entire thread. I just wanted to say you're not alone Oblomov. Don't beat yourself up too much because there are others e.g. me who also find it hard to get over a friendship. It's been 3 years since I was dumped suddenly by my best friend. She refused to reply to my texts, calls, emails. I apologized yet I didn't know what I was apologizing for!
On hindsight, ex best friend made a new set of friends and was slowly distancing herself so that was my answer right there. I just didn't fit into her new lifestyle. I am ok with that but I just wish she'd had the guts to tell me in person. Some songs, places etc remind me of her, but I have a tried-and-tested mantra that makes it all go away and this mantra my recommendation to you: "you can't live inside my head rent free, bitch". It usually works!
Thank you for all the recent posts.
I h ave been doing alot of thinking in the last few days. About being such a people pleaser and on why I valued her disproportionally.
I do agree with nearly all the comments, on the thread. Thank you to everyone who posted. You have given me alot of perspective and alot of food for thought, and so I sincerely thank you. Very much.