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angry and not sure whether I'm being heartless(93 Posts)
My dh has had a really crap year or so with employment. He's on his third job in the last year. The first one he packed in because it was cold calling and he gets quite phobic about having to ring people so he more or less decided he was unable to do it (it wasn't advertised as cold calling). He then worked for a retail company and got sacked during his probationary period after a lot of problems - he said he didn't receive any proper training and the others seemed to deliberately exclude him and he felt they bullied him. Now he has a new job which he's had for the last 6 months or so and the same thing is happening again.
He is a manager and his main problem is that he seems to try to get on with everyone and gets very hurt and upset that they don't include him but I have explained that as a manager they are likely to make him separate as that is the nature of being a boss... he did something a bit stupid and ended up being late for a big meeting because he got on the wrong train with two employees. He knew he was on the wrong train but went along with it because the others wanted to be late. He then received a disciplinary for this.
Yesterday he remembered he'd made another silly mistake at work so he rang and owned up to it. His manager told him to email the area manager explaining it which he has done. He has not heard anything back and isn't likely to till his appraisal intw/o weeks. He is now in a deep depression convinced he is worthless and about to get sacked again.
I have sympathy for him. Of course I do. I am on maternity leave and we have a ds 4 months and also dd aged 9 from my previous relationship. I was a single mum for several years befo're I met dh.
But I'm also if I'm honest quite annoyed he seems to have this "I'm worthless" depressive attitude ... but will not take medication or talk to anyone. I have had severe depression myself so I do try to understand.
If he loses his job I could return to work so we wouldn't lose the house. Our mortgage is very small so we could manage. It is a pride thing with my husband. He thinks no one likes him.
Meanwhile I am knackered... ds has just started to
Sleep through till 6am everyday but today was dh turn to get up with him as I do it everyday and he woke up in a terrible mood saying he'd had two hours sleep worrying about work so I said I'd get up again... as I do every bloody day.
I'm also struggling with things with my mum and my hair is falling out !! Long stories. I feel so tired and stressed and worried about my dh and his job etc.
Can I ask what management training he has had? I think he needs to understand that it's not personal and perfectly natural that he won't be included in social stuff.
And this links into the train journey - that's bizarre that he said nothing. He's not there to impress his colleagues but to do a job and should have addressed the situation as soon as he realised the mistake.
What was the other 'silly mistake'?
If he wants to stay in this role I would suggest he asks to go on a management/leadership development role in his appraisal.
Thanks. He's had no training other than general on the job stuff. It's not a well salaried job.. think retail management. I keep explaining it's not personal but he is adamant that it is. He seems to have a bit of a persecution complex in my opinion.
I can't go into too much detail about the other mistake as it will out me but basically he told a junior member of staff to put some stock out when it shouldn't have been on the shelves until Monday. He should have checked. He has been so stressed hes making some mistakes basically.
I can see that he isn't in their good books but I'm not sure it's to the point of no return. I also think he is taking it too personally. He has us and our family to worry about but he seems more bothered about what a lot of idiots at work think about him !
He's not cut out to manage staff while he is so childish and pettish about wanting to be liked.
To have got himself in trouble at work when he has a baby to support, so he could impress people he is meant to be managing, is beyond pathetic.
If he hadn't chosen to do that the second, genuine, mistake wouldn't be worth worrying about.
He really needs to up his game or he will get fired again.
And he needs to up his game at home. He should have given you your rest this morning regardless of how much sleep he managed to get.
It's not your fault he's upset that his staff don't think he's cool.
Maybe get him to watch The Office and explain to him that he is David Brent.
I would be furious if I had to go back to work after 4 months because my husband couldn't hold down a job due to incompetence.
Sorry I've just re-read that he's on a disciplinary! He really needs to have a long hard think about this or he's about to get fired again.
Completely agree with athing. It's beyond belief that he's ready to lose his job just to be seen to be one of the gang.
Was this the pattern in other jobs? Could he ask for a new job in the same company where he is just part of a team instead of the manager?
It's not really training that's the problem here, it's his judgement and confidence. Trying to be everyone's mate when you're in a supervisory role means you can end up being treated with contempt... he shouldn't have to be told that. Deliberately making himself late because he wanted to be chummy is just stupidity. Everyone makes mistakes in a new job but getting depressed about the appraisal and feeling sorry for himself won't change the outcome. Rolling his sleeves up at work and trying to do a better job in the meantime might help his managers see him differently.
I don't think you're being heartless, really.
Thank you for the replies.
It all started really when two people at work started being horrible to him andhe felt bullied and then he tried to stand up to them but they were the popular ones at work and he ended up being hated. Then they all seemed to be friends again tillthe train incident and he didn't want it all to kick off again so he stupidly went along with it. All 3 of them were taken into the office and told off. He was also told off as being their manager he should have disciplined them himself. I did say to him at the time he should not have gone with them. He didn't listen to me and didn't think they would get caught out but the manager checked the trains.
Yes it was stupid. And yes I m very angry and I didn't even want to go back to work let alone go back early. I'm very upset. But I feel I don't have a choice. I feel he has taken my choices away from me.
I am sitting here doing everything this morning and he is still in bed !!
He's not normally like this but all this has dragged him down.
When did I become a doormat.
He's the one dragging you down.
Staying in his pit of self-pity while you do all the work seems about right.
I agree with what's been said above. He either needs some management training and a change of attitude or he needs to get a different type of job altogether or a retail post where he is not managing staff.
Meantime, go and get him out of bed! He's had a massive lie in already, tell him to take over from you while you go back to bed and rest.
So what do I do ? Do I drag him out of bed and have a go at him ... or do I do the softly approach and bring him a tea and a cuddle and tell him it will all be ok ? (Which is what I did yesterday.. he was in tears on and off hiding in the kitchen).
We are supposed to be going out later as my mum has offered to babysit. Not sure I feel like it now to be honest.
He has been trying very hard at work now but he feels like they've made up their mind they don't like him and want him out.
He is looking for other jobs and now realises he doesn't want to manage.
Neither. There's nothing you can do about work at the moment, he needs to get on with job at hand - looking after DS and giving you a break. Take DS in to him, tell him to take over and that you're having a break now. He's to get out of bed and you are getting in.
Do what Hellon advises.
He's spent quite enough time on his self-created drama at work.
Does he understand that if they want him out it's because ge has done a bad job?
His self-pity is entirely misplaced.
He should feel sorry for the victims of his stupidity (you and his son), not himself.
I don't really care for this expression, but frankly he needs to man the fuck up. He has a baby and a partner, he can't keep risking jobs over peer pressure for gods sake.
I would still take your mum up on the offer of babysitting this afternoon and spend some time together out of the house to come up with a realistic plan for the future.
He seems to chop and change jobs/what he does and doesn't want to do very quickly though.
FGS you don't go to work to be popular. How old is he? 12?
Managers are not there to be liked or make friends FGS. They are there to manage. This by implication means that sometimes you will be unpopular. The thing to work on is earning respect from your team so that when you make an unpopular decision it is respected.
I agree with everyone's comments but want to add that he clearly is lacking in confidence & perhaps CBT would help?
He needs to learn about making the right decision rather than what he thinks will help make his work life more comfortable and he seems so tied up in his own head ATM that he can't look at his job & its priorities objectively.
So this is the third job this year that he wants to leave because he isn't liked? So why don't people like him? You know him, is he unlikeable? Irritating? Rude? There must be something. Or it's a defeatist, miserable attitude that is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Either way, he cannot continue like this, it's not fair on you at all.
Well obviously I like him ... but he can be temperamental and very sensitive to the point where he thinks someone is having a go at him when in actual fact it might be absolutely nothing to do with him and they're just having a rubbish day.
My mum hasn't warmed to him but that is a whole nother issue as basically my mum has always been quite controlling and until I met dh I had always lived with her. We then brought her out of her share of the house I jointly owned with her. So now she is living alone and blames him for that. But actually I couldn't live with her anymore and wanted to live alone anyway. Dh was just a catalyst.
One of the issues with my mum is she has 3 small but unruly dogs and I didn't want our new baby to be around them. Mum doesn't control them and although they have never ever been aggressive they are very jumpy and she does not discipline them at all. This is one of the current arguments I'm having with her. I will not bring the baby to her house (she babysits at ours) and she think I am being unreasonable.
Anyway I digress.
I do think dh has been very stupid. He knows that now and is trying to get his head down and prove himself.
I still feel like he doesn't or isn't pulling his weight at home with me this weekend though as he feels work stress gives him the upper hand.
In the end hegot out of bed before I could go to him and he watched ds while I had some breakfast. He is now in the shower. I have agreed mum to come and babysit and part of me just wants to tell all of them to fuck off and go away with the babies on my own.
I feel and look hideous. I haven't had a break for more than 20 min baby naps all week and I'm near to breaking point.
To top it off dh mentioned he'd completed one of his Xbox games last night.... so he wasn't up in the pits of despair. He was up late playing a game.
If I challenge him on it he will say I'm being horrible.
Yeah, he's really not managerial material. not everyone is. It's good he's looking for other work. you can't be mates with people you manage. And you can't be motivated by a need to make them like you. They don't have to like you (although it's good if they do!) they just have to respect you. and displaying a clear neediness be my friend be my friend be my friend will result in them having zero respect for you. And once that's gone - you can't get it back.
He sounds like a child, tbh. everyone's got to like me, i'll do what everyone's doing, stay up playing silly kids computer games, act like a sullen teenager when expected to take responsibility in the home... He honestly sounds like what he needs to do is to simply grow up. all the things you mention tie up into one neat little bundle - he's childish.
He needs to grow his confidence and be more mature too.
"If I challenge him on it he will say I'm being horrible."
Wow, he really is a self-pitying twat, isn't he?
He gets to stay up all night playing computer games, deny you your agreed lie in, and then whine about how mean you are if you tell him he's being a lazy shite?
Why do you let him carry on like a petulant 13 year old?
If he says you're being horrible tell him that what's really horrible is a grown man using his uselessness at work as an excuse for being useless at home.
He really sounds like a complete loser.
Sounds like he catastrophises and has a lot of unhealthy thought patterns, black and white thinking and hyper-sensitivity. He might benefit from CBT.
I think you need to insist he seeks help with his depression, as he is dragging you and your little family into his misery and it's affecting his ability to work.
If he continues like this, you'll build up a massive amount of resentment and it'll kill your relationship stone dead. He needs to fix himself.
Bloody hell - he really does need to grow the fuck up. He's a FATHER not a carefree teenager. Is there anyone who would give him a damn good talking to that he would listen to?? Father/Uncle/Older Friend? CBT would probably be worth a shot too (as someone else mentioned) and a visit to the Dr to check out the depression.
It needs ACTION this cannot continue.
He has been an idiot but being horrible to him will not help - it will just feed his self loathing. Get him to the doctor for some sort of counselling OP. Could he return to a non managerial role somewhere and you work part time? He doesn't sound capable of managing people in this state if mind. Poor you
Your husband sounds like a stroppy teenager and you are enabling it.
He is in bed after playing Xbox late after all that's been said, and you worry about rightfully calling him on it because he will call you "horrible"
Nobody has been horrible to him.
He's the one being horrible by using his work drama to take advantage of his wife.
Sounds like his self loathing is justified.
Maybe he'd hate himself less if he wasn't such a lazy, whiny prick.
Well it now looks like he's going to be sacked for something unrelated. They obviously just want him out. He's been suspended on full pay while they decide what to do. Fucking nightmare. Just before Christmas. We are both pretty sure he is going to be sacked. We have taken legal advice etc and there is nothing that can be done.
I'm so angry and so down. I feel angry with feeling angry with him when this latest thing isn't his fault but it's the snowball effect of everything.
I've also gone from enjoying my maternity leave and time with ds to now having to face financially struggling and possibly getting into debt when we had worked very hard to save and not have any.
My mum has been in hospital and is now out of hospital. It's just one long stress. I'm not coping very well but I have to so I keep going. I'm so worn out with it all.
I'm so angry and upset that I can barely look at dh and we are just being civil around the kids and when they go to bed we sit in the same room and don't talk to each other. I mean what can we say, our lives are in chaos.
He is applying for other jobs and had two interviews this week. One he knows he hasn't got already. He's very upset about the whole situation.
I am finding it hard to carry on being cheerful around the dc particularly ds the baby because he takes so much energy and I just want to curl into a ball and sleep. But I can't.
Sorry OP but he needs to grow up.
He has done something else? It doesn't sound like they want him out. Sounds like he keeps making mistakes.
Tbh I have worked with people like him. Desperate to be liked and in the end no one does. Because they are is desperate, not themselves and fake.
And all this staying up on the Xbox and then getting you up with the kids is bollocks.
He is manipulating you into feeling sorry for him and getting his own way. Hr is acting like a child.
I don't think he is without blame at all. I know he keeps making mistakes. And most of them quite silly. I suspect this latest thing is the cherry on the cake. I cant go into it too much but basically he made an error in procedure and now he is down for gross misconduct. I don't think it warrants that but what can we do.
I can't help but feel like if I really loved him none of this would matter and I'd be supportive and wed get through this together. Instead I find myself not wanting to speak to him at all and actually feeling angry that I mortgaged my house so he could go on the deeds (effectively he brought my mum out of her share, so instead of my mum being on the deeds half with me he is). I find myself thinking that when I was a single parent life was easier. But now it wouldn't be easier as I have ds and dh would always be involved. I can't escape. And I don't know if I really want to. I just feel so angry.
Everything is making me feel resentful. Dh just does not hear ds in the mornings at all so despite being off work for a week now I have got up with ds at 5 everyday. If Itry and wake dh he will just roll over and go back to sleep. It takes literally 3 goes to get him up. I'm fed up. At the moment I get up with ds and dd and I've accepted that but I'd like him to get up so I can have a shower before the school run and he does but only after I've tried to wake him aseveral times.
Really had enough and don't even feel I can talk to him about it as we'll end up arguing and him being upset and i don't have the energy. I'd like to become a nun and sod off to a convent somewhere.
"He's very upset about the whole situation."
Him being upset helps nothing. He really has to get a grip, find some enthusiam for job-seeking and, if he's not working, he has to pull his weight around the home instead. Rolling over and going back to sleep is the way idle teenagers behave... not men with family responsibilities.
It is very difficult to love someone when they are bone-idle and negative. So tell him. Give him a list of stuff you need him to do - starting with 'getting out of bed at a decent time' - and lay it on the line that your relationship's future depends on him bucking his ideas up. Serious. If he chooses to argue rather than accept he has to change.... send him away for a while to give you time to think.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Thanks for the replies. Froot your dh sounds exactly like mine... so frustrating isn't it. You sound like you sorted him out though... I'm taking notes!!
Well by some amazing fluke my dh got offered one of the jobs he went for an interview for. More money and less travel. So of course he is overjoyed and very enthusiastic again and excited. And yes I am too because we have been pulled back from the brink ..... but.... I still feel fed up. I just see this as another job that's going to end up the same as the others. I'm being unfair aren't I ? It's just so hard to get excited.
Dh is angry with me ... well not angry just hurt. He doesn't understand why I'm not in celebration mode. I haven't cuddled him all week. Or kissed him except for good night. I'm just worn out and had enough. He keeps asking me what's wrong and I say I'm tired.
I am feeling really down about everything really. I'm finding ds hard work too. He was a much wanted baby but after such a big age gap between him and dd who is nine I just find myself feeling so restricted. When dd was at school I had all day to do what I liked, watch tv go shopping cook a nice meal... and now cute and lovely as ds is everything is a struggle. I have no time to myself and whereas I thought my mum would be able to occasionally babysit she's not well now so I have no time off. If I leave ds with dh which he often suggests I return feeling like I've given him a really tiring afternoon etc as he always seems worn out and fed up so I end up not bothering.
I'm sure this will pass but it's good to write about it.
I have a big age and I hear you. Massive shock to the system. It does pass though.
Your dh is a child pure and simple. He does hear ds, he hears you ask him to get up and he ignores it. Because that's what selfish people do. They ignore their responsibilities because some else will do it. You will get up, you will keeping waking him.
He also does this is his job. Ignores the fact he is responsible and wants everyone to just pick up the pieces.
I wouldn't be excited either. Why would you be excited that in 6 months (tops) you will be in the same position again. Why would you be excited when nothing has changed?
If he is worn out and fed up after an afternoon spent minding the baby, then hello - it's welcome to your world. That is not a reason to feel guilty or not to ask him to do it.
Be a little selfish (it's not actually). Why are you more worried about him being tired and pissed off than you are about yourself?
No wonder you feel resentful if you're always putting his needs above your own and he just assumes you will. Change that dynamic. You're entitled to time out. He owes it to you to share the burden of childcare.
The age gap between children is a massive issue for me I think... which is ridiculous as I wanted them! .. dd is almost a mini teenager at 9 (year 5). She is quite independent and we were getting to a nice stage where I could go out shopping with her or to the cinema. And then I go and have ds and I'm right back to the start. Dh has looked after ds a few times so dd and I can still go out but I find myself dreading going home.
You're right I don't know why I put myself below everyone else in the pecking order .. I think it's because I find it easier to do things rather than put up with the sulking. Although last night I did go to bed at half nine as I was just so worn out I was falling asleep on the sofa. I know this irritated dh as we hadn't really spoken much and he probably feels annoyed I just left him to it.
We had a massI've row yesterday. I admitI had been snappy and fed up all day and he got very annoyed with me and said I "don't want to share anything with him". He says I don't seem pleased about the new job etc. I said I am but just feel tired of all the stress lately. He is saying the new job is more money so I don't have to go back to work if I don't want to... but I don't feel inspired that this is going to last really. The only way we would have coped this time is my job I'm on maternity leave for. I didn't want to go back but I'm not sure now.
I still feel really angry. I don't know how to change the way i feel and if I don't then it's going to continue like this.
I know how you feel.
Dd was 7 when as was born. It can be difficult finding things they both enjoy and then fitting in the things you used to do with the eldest.
But I try and think of the positives. dd is quite independent so does alot herself. Like makes her breakfast which made it easier to sort ds on a morning. She is amazing with him. Her name was his first word. She is like a mini mum.
ds is now 21 months and dd even takes him to bed an reads to him on a night. Then i tuck him in, little things like that make me happy with the gap. They are so close and he adores her.
Now i am really happy with the gap. It does get easier. At one point i kind felt like 'oh my god what have i done' in the first few months after i had ds, but it does get better.
Regarding you not working. I feel bad saying this. but what would happen if say in 12 mo the he ends up screwing this job up?
Will your job at least give you security? Do you want to be financially dependant on someone who struggles to keep a job?
Really feel for your situation op. your dh sounds like e needs a lot of growing up to do and so unfair your left with dealing dc on your own all the time. No wonder you feel exhausted, worn out & resentful. I have a ten year gap between my dd who is 13 & ds who is 3 and totally feel your pain. Have many times thought what have I done? I met my dh when my dd was 16 months old & definitely regret waiting so long to have another It is really hard with big gap but try to think of ways to involve your daughter, I would encourage my dd to read to my ds, take them swimming, out for walks, anything that got them interacting. They both adore each other but my ds can get very jealous which is hard. Its great your dh has new job but if it was me I maybe wouldn't give up security of my job incase this happened again. Also of it did I would seriously be thinking if I waned to stay with someone who behaved that way. I know you feel it would be hard being single parent of 2 but it sounds in the past as though you are being parent of 3 & dh sounds like he's behaving like stroppy teenager so if he wasn't there then you wouldn't be living with all the resentment which I would think would be easier. Really hope things work out for you & with dh's job and that you can enjoy your ds's precious first year
You are not being unreasonable or unfair for thinking that this next job will end up like the last few.
Your dh sounds like he thinks he's still in school. It's very unprofessional TBH. I think he really needs to address his attitude to work, stop feeling sorry for himself, especially when things are his fault, and get a grip.
Thank you. Maybe I'm just struggling as all this has really upset and unsettled me.
You're right really.. and dd does help out with ds a lot. So that's helpful. It's just things like although ds goes to bed at 5.30 dd is now entering late bedtime territory so wants to be up till 9 (although bedtime is usually 8) so I end up with maybe an hour to myself and then I need to go to bed as ds is up so early!
I've told dh I want to go and get my hair cut next week. Hes been into the city shopping twice since he's been off and I can't remember when I went. Part of my problem is I just hate the way I look. I've put on so much weight with ds and also due a medical condition my hair is thinning (I'm having treatment for hormone issues). I look in the mirror and I don't look like me. I was always the glam mum and now I'm frumpy mum.
Dh and I spent another day and evening of not talking and not touching. It's like I can't make that bridge. I don't know how to start talking to him. I mean "look I've lost all trust and respect for you" is a pretty big elephant in the room. And I'm not sure I'm just really angry and resentful. So I am safer sounding it out on here.
You have a lot on your plate, and I'm not surprised that you want to run away from it all. I definitely would feel the same.
Your husband. I totally get your frustration, disappointment, anger and resentment at him. It's hard to talk to someone when you have all those feelings towards someone. Not only has he let you down time and again with his inability to keep a job, he has let you down by not being able to handle it and not truly taking any responsibility for it and then using it as an excuse to not take any responsibility at home. That is a lot it take on board. I would want to give him a mental slap actually but it would be more constructive I think if you and him went to counselling to try and work out your relationship in the long term. I think that thedynamics would need to change for it to be a long lasting healty relationship and couple counselling might go a way towards that. In the short term, I think you need to let him know how you feel and why you have found it difficult to talk to him.
It's also time to put yourself first. Set up regular times when you can have breaks from DS and husband. Go to the gym, see your friends, go shopping, go on a course, whatever. As long as its scheduled regularly. If H sulks afterwards, that is no reason to stop doing things for yourself. He is sulking so you will think twice about taking time out again. Stop giving into it. You sound like you have a lovely relationship with your daughter. Again, take time out to spend time with her regularly to go to the cinema, go shopping, to the cafe, library, whatever she is into.
I think your H would benefit from CBT, would he go? I don't think the dynamics of the relationship would change that much until he starts thinking differently about himself.
Sorry for typos!
Also, it might be worth going to the GP and telling them everything and saying saying that you are finding it hard to cope.
I have a friend with a DH like this. He can't keep a job, it's never his fault, he's always the victim etc etc. She makes excuses, I say nothing. But deep down I'm thinking 'He loves all the attention, adores all the 'poor me' drama, and will forever be a drain on you'. She coddles him, allows him to get away with being a selfish twat, and then suffers financially as she is yo yoing on and off benefits depending on whether he deigns to work (she does work, btw, cleaning. A job he won't consider as it's not 'manly' enough). I think you're entitled to be angry, allowed to feel let down and totally within your rights to tell him so.
Thank you for the replies. It's very helpful to be able to offload.
Well I am going to put myself first today for a change and dh is going to look after ds while I go and get my hair cut and go clothes shopping. I'm feeling a bit down about my appearance and I don't really recognise myself since having ds so I need to do something about that. I'm not sure if my total lack of interest in sex and everything else is that or stuff with dh or a mixture.
We had a terrible terrible argument the night before last. It all came out about how I felt about the job etc. He got very upset and said I am assuming he's going to fail before he's even started and what about supporting him and being proud of him. I said I am proud of him for getting another job but I'm also worried given previous experiences and also the instability of the economy.
He said that I am always depressed, can't find the joy in anything. I said I can but part of my pleasure in life is to feel stable and I don't feel stable at the moment as another 6 months down the line we could be worrying again. Hmm.
So we had an awful day. Ds did nothing but whinge the whole following day, dh and I barely talked to each other. We went into town for something to eat and didn't talk the whole time, just both taking turns with ds.
Last night we didn't talk beyond pleasantries again. I really have to desire at all to touch or be physically close. I'm not sure if that's because I feel depressedor because of how I feel about him. We usually have sex and physical affection a lot so to go this long and absolutely nothing is extremely unusual.
I actually feel like when I'm getting dressed and he comes in the bedroom to get something that he is invading my space and I want to cover up and I've never felt like that before.
I feel sad and lonely and I don't know how to fix this. We feel like worlds apart at the moment.
Sorry meant to add dh will not go for counselling or take medications. Been there done that - nagged and nagged and nothing. Won't be budged on it.
Okay, I am a little worried about you. Could you access some counselling? Just to let out your frustrated feelings, or maybe to uncover reasons why you are feeling so down. Do you feel you should be "fixing" everyone?
Do you do any exercise (I'm glad you can't see me as I'm hardly the greatest advert)? Because maybe a half-hour run every day or going to the gym, or regular swimming will help a lot. If you are under stress a lot of Adrenaline can build up and exercise is a good way to get rid of this.
I would also recommend getting into a routine where you get out, especially in winter, especially in the middle of the day when there is most sunlight around. Do also go and do things, even if your DH is at home. So do go to Baby groups, do have the odd coffee out, do arrange to meet up with any other Mums you can. Do do the indulgent things that you can't when you are working, so read a book, watch a DVD you want to. Splurge on a nicer bag of coffee. Whatever does it for you.
Then when you have dealt with yourself and feel stronger, you can point out to DH if he moans that its not your responsibility and he needs to deal with his own issues. Or you could just say "Well what do you want me to do about it? Say, there there. Offer advice? Just listen?"
Basically you will have to relate to him as an adult, and not allow him to turn you into his parent.
But first look after yourself (and your children). He is an adult and should be able to look after himself.
OP if he won't do anything to help himself, even though it is causing you so much stress he is being selfish and unfair.
I am not surprised you don't see the joy in life. You spend life planning for his fuck Ups. Because that's what they are. HIS fuck Ups.
He wants you to forget his past shitty behaviour and be all jumping up and down because he has found a job. Tell him you will be all happy when he keeps it for more than a year. When you feel you have some stability, support and a partner.
At the moment he is only causing you stress and hurt.
Your DH is very self absorbed, isn't he? You're the one with a young baby, a hormone problem and an ill mother, but it's all 'me, me, me!' with him. He's acting like a toddler that's used the potty for the first time: "I got a new job/took a dump in the potty, look at me, LOOK AT ME!"
There's so many things wrong with him, I don't know where to begin. He wants you to support him, but where is his support of you?
I try not to get angry at things I read on here, but your DH is being a turd.
Oh come on, 3 jobs in one year, and sacked or nearly sacked from 2 of them? "Going along with" deliberately being late? Hes the sort of employee who makes things a nightmare for the customer! Thats just ridiculous. He sounds completely irresponsible and undisciplined. I can't believe you are worrying about getting angry with him. I'd be furious, in fact I'd be planning to leave him. Everyone deserves a second or even a third chance, but this is irresponsibility to the highest level.
Its not really to do with training or lack of it - its his own basic stupidity and unreliability.
Has everyone in his life mollycoddled him from reality, or is it just you? Hes never going to learn the consequences of his own actions if people keep shielding him and worrying about upsetting him. tbh if he can't work out after being sacked once that acting like an imcompetent has consequences, then hes going to end up unemployable very soon, and personally I wouldn't want to be dragged down like that, even if he does have his good points.
Sorry I just read he stayed up last night playing his XBox. Is he actually only 18 or 19? He's not behaving like a grown up!
dequoisagitil is right, he catastrophises his life, work life is shit, so his whole life is shit, people at work hate him, everyone else including you, he needs help for this attitude, laziness and total disrespect of you, he certainly doesnt sound like a grown man.
My original post still stands.
Bloody hell - he really does need to grow the fuck up. He's a FATHER not a carefree teenager. Is there anyone who would give him a damn good talking to that he would listen to?? Father/Uncle/Older Friend? CBT would probably be worth a shot too (as someone else mentioned) and a visit to the Dr to check out the depression.
It needs ACTION this cannot continue.
If I were you I would go back to my job when your maternity leave ends. I am all for people doing what is right for them, but in my heart of hearts I do feel babies are best at home with their Mums, but in certain situations then it's wise to do other things - this is one of those situations. Your DD, your DS and YOU need one employable, employed, stable parent (adult) and you are going to have to be that person.
I don't know what to suggest about the physical side of your relationship, frankly, I think he's very fortunate to still be in the family home - if I were you he wouldn't be.
Thanks for the replies... haven't replied for a bit as trying to sort my head out a little.
I think I am going to have to return to work at the end of my maternity leave even though that isn't something I wanted to do because I feel veryal unstable and unable to stop worrying about everything.
Dh started his new job this week and is already struggling to cope. He is extremely anxious about the product knowledge he has or lack of it, and even though they hired him knowing he didn't have any experience he has got himself in a complete state saying he can't learn it etc. This ended up with him being in floods of tears in the morning saying he can't do it, he feels worthless, letting everyone down etc. Fucks sake.
He admitted he's been in tears a lot of the week which I haven't seen as he's been away on training.
So yesterday he rang in sick as he was in too much of a state to go in. He kept asking if I was angry and I said I'm not angry just frustrated!! I said if he doesn't feel able to do it then he needed to take some control and go to the GP and take meds and get counselling. It's not acceptable for him to just collapse in a heap. I was very angry and said I felt invisible as we used to be equal partners but now I feel I'm just left to do everything while he mopes about.
And I still feel guilty feeling angry! If he has depression or whatever as I have had before then I feel bad for feeling angry! Grr.
So now I have no idea what's going on. He tried to get a GP appointment but there weren't any yesterday so have to wait till next week, I'm not going to nag him on it because I said to him he has to want to go otherwise there is no point.
He managed to ask work to make up the day next week. Not a good start really!
I really don't know if I'm coming or going.
I'm getting up with ds everyday at 4.30am as thats when he wants to get up. I ddont feel able to ask dh to take turns as he's in such a state hes hardly sleeping anyway.
Ds spends the whole day moaning whatever I do, play with him, encourage naps, walks etc ... just moans. I'm really fed up. I always thought dh would be an equal parent but all the work crap has ruined it. Plus my mum being ill I have no support. But no one gives a fuck about me they just expect me to keep going andI don't have a fucking choice.
So sorry to hear that he seems to be sabotaging this opportunity, Fairy. The fact that he keeps asking if you are angry makes me wonder if he subconsciously wants you to be angry? so he can blame you somehow?
What a shame-- he really doesn't want to make it work out, does he. Hate to say it but your best bet may be to go back to work if you have a good job to go back to-- to keep that self sufficiency and continuity for yourself. Is he trying to set up a situation where just that will happen, so he can cast himself in the role of house husband and have you support him? It may be a subtle trick on his part to fail so that you have to step in and save him... but the fact that he's not helping much with the baby would say otherwise.
Sorry you're having such a hard time with DS. I hope you can get some time to look after yourself and get some time to relax a bit!
Just re-reading your post... please make some time to relax and look after yourself! you've had to take all the c*p of OH's job stress while dealing with a needy little one and no support. Can you leave the baby with him and get away for a bit of 'me' time? Things will get better but you do need more support!
It sounds like you could both use someone to talk to. Even if he is depressed you can't go on absorbing all his insecurities and misery, as well as doing everything else.
How old is your ds now? Maybe going back to work part time will allow you to feel more in control of things.
I think you both need to seek some support as individuals as you're not able to support each other. Your DP seems to have severe anxiety, maybe made worse by recent job losses and his confidence has suffered. He would benefit from CBT - is it worth talking to him about this? There are online resources that could assist him. He's got a new job, great in this climate, he's started the job but he's not feeling as if he's coping. CBT could help him to change his mindset. Does his concerns have any basis, is he being properly supported in work by his managers?
On the other hand I can relate to how you are feeling, the new baby, although so much wanted has been disruptive. I had a similar age gap and my first dc was an easy baby, ds was the opposite - high maintenance and each day was hard, hard work as he rarely slept. It was exhausting and I think I suffered with sleep deprivation. Can you alter his sleep routine so that he's going to bed slightly later and maybe waking later? When he sleeps, you should try and sleep. Perhaps also mention how you're feeling to your MW as you may need an assessment as I think lack of sleep can cause low feelings and then it's a vicious cycle.
I don't know how long you have been together before the baby? If your DP had a solid employment history then this could be a blip - the timing is awful as a new baby causes pressures anyway.
He needs to forget about management jobs. He's trying, and failing, to work at a level beyond his ability. He keeps being found out. He needs to be realistic about that (as we all do!).
He sounds like a big kid, blaming everyone else but himself for the mess he's in. Which would be fine if we were talking about a 19 year old, but we're talking about an adult, with responsibilities to a wife and child.
Moaning about lack of sleep when it turns out he sat up late playing computer games is just pathetic and immature. When you are clearly at your wit's end and on your knees with exhaustion, it's unforgiveable.
Is this a new thing? Or does he have a history of "misfortune". How long did you know him before you were married?
If he won't get some help, or at least speak to the GP about the mess he is making of his working life, and his apparent lack of enthusiasm for taking responsibility, you are going to have to make some difficult decisions.
At the moment I have to say it sounds as though you would be better off without him.
I would start leaving him with the baby at every opportunity. It may give him the impetus he needs to decide he really must go out to work - just in case he fancies being a SAHD, and thinks he can play computer games all day while you work full-time and do everything at home too.
Sorry you're having such a hard time. I agree that you should talk to the GP/MW/HV too.
Well, I think it was fairly predictable that this was going to happen (and perhaps the reason you couldn't muster up any great enthusiasm)
He has got to grow up!
Every job he has he loses through his own fault. If every workplace you go into you fail in, and everyone treats you the same, it could be that you've been unlucky enough to find all these nasty workplaces but it's FAR more likely that it's of your own making! That people are responding to you. That you are cocking it up.
He needs to address these issues if he wants to change.
He isn't capable of being a manager. This is painfully obvious. He needs to find something he can do.
Thanks for the replies. I've taken onboard some of the ideas and it's useful to hear opinions other than my own! Thanks.
This weekend he seemed to buck up a bit and was quite hands on with the baby
... I left him to it a few times while I wandered off doing things either at home or when we went to the shops. I don't think he realises how draining it is looking after ds for a whole day. He only does it for a couple of hours at most.
I don't think it's about him wanting to be a sahd. He has always been adamant he wants to be the breadwinner, which is what I wanted too after me having some very demanding highly paid jobs in a previous life! I worked too much when dd was little and wanted to be at home to enjoy ds more. Dh seemed to support that.
We have been together about five years now. When I first met him he did have a reasonable job that he had done for two years. He had anxieties over that but nothing like this and he did well at it.. no inkling that he would be like this. It's all started when he relocated to move in with me and had to.quit this old job and then the jobs he's had since then he's had problems in. Four jobs in total he has gone through now.
Last night he was in a right state again because he has to go in today and he keeps asking me what he should do. When I say I am worried about him but I'm also worried about the mortgage he gets angry as if I don't care about him.
I'm going round in circles.
I am tied to this mortgage. I owned half the house when we met.
I am so angry. Ds is waking up. I will come back to this later.
Hope he has a good day at work, it sounds like he is creating a self fulfilling prophecy with his attitude to work.
I would also suggest that you make a GP appointment for yourself, or go and talk to the Health Visitors. Concentrate on yourself and you baby, eat healthily, get out every day, and go to baby groups/ have adult contact. Sleep when you can.
He needs to grow up and deal with his work stuff himself, you really don't need a third child right now.
I'm really sorry this must be very difficult for you at a time where , as you say, you just want be enjoying your ML.
I guess you have to keep your boot up his backside about going to the doctor. I know what you mean about it having to come from him but what choice do you have ? Anyway he sounds childish and like a child you're going to have to be the organiser of it.
No, he doesn't want to be a SAHD. Because that's actually work. He wants to do nothing. But here's what will happen: you'll go back to work and he'll be SAHP because he gets in state over any outside employment.
He will do FA. He'll sit the baby in a playpen and play Xbox, then claim he's had a hard day and you'll do your paid employment and everything in that house.
I've seen it happen time and again here.
You need to have a serious think about things and perhaps see a counsellor on your own.
He's an adult and a father. He has to take responsibility for his issues. Only he can change them.
And no, you are not responsible for organising or 'nagging' him to see a doctor. He is.
To echo expat - no way on earth would I ever agree to an X-box loving, unenthusiastic man becoming a SAHD. Never.
Not unless you fancy your DS living that unique '1980s Romanian orphanage' experience, of course!
Expat is 100% correct in what she says above. You going out to work while he stays at home
sitting on his arse being a SAHD will not improve the situation - quite the opposite, and at the expense of your child's welfare too.
I would have zero respect for this man. You poor thing.
Have you considered leaving him? You have a life time ahead of this utter nonsense.
So the advice for someone who has developed mental health problems due to relocating and leaving his old job is to man up and grow up and you should leave him?
No wonder the suicide rate for men is so high.
On average 65 men a week do.
He needs help, and it can be very difficult to get someone with depression and anxiety to get help, I suppose he should grow a pair.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
To me its about the desired outcome.
Assuming the OP wants to stay married to him and as she has a baby I do assume she does then it would be better if he could seek help and hopefully sort himself out. This in turn would be more likely to help their marriage and future together.
Irrespective of who or how gets the doctor surely the important thing is that he does ?
Thanks... if I do have to go back to work I would have to use a nursery. Don't worry, I won't be giving ds the romanian orphanage experience! ... I don't think dh would ignore him perhaps but I don't think he'd engage as much as I do, because of his depression at the moment. My job is extremely badly paid so ironically tax credits would pay most of the childcare. Of course I feel annoyed at facing paying someone else to do the job I wanted to do I realise I have maternity allowance and leave until march.
Yesterday was a disaster. I drove him to work, with ds in the back asleep. Dh doesn't drive. His training is in a different town 25 miles away. He spent the morning in tears and I just knew he wouldn't go in but he wouldn't make a decision so we all got in the car and when we got there we sat in the car park and he broke down in tears saying he just can't do it, is scared he can't do it etc.
I said I'm not making decisions for him so we sat like that for half an hour and then he.opened the door and shut it again and had a panic attack.... more crying etc. In the end he didn't go in and got angry with me for suggesting he gave it a go..I said the training days would help him but he says he just can't do it.
Cue lots of crying and arguing on the way home. Him saying I don't love him anymore, that he's a fuck up etc. Me saying that's not true but I'm.angry and frustrated. And I was angry I wasted nearly two hours driving him there and back and petrol from our house account too when money is now.tight !!!
We spent the rest of the day putting on a front for ds (who slept the whole journey there and back).
Dh is going to try and go to the doctors today. He is now saying he will go to work on Wednesday when the work becomes local. For gods sake! It's just like one thing after another until he gets sacked... which I'm surprised he isn't yet!
He.has missed all the training days so it's almost.like he's fulfilling his.prophecy of failing before he starts!
I don't think I want or could leave..he's clearly unwell. The man I married is in there somewhere, surely. I can't face arguing over ds and the house..I don't think he could cope with ds for contact on his own to be honest. He wouldn't leave the house and neither would I. We have half the equity in the house which was mine before we.met and he is effectively buying the other half through our joint mortgage. If we split now he could argue half the equity is his from what it is now and it isn't.
Just plod along I guess.
I think rather than get angry at him for freaking out like this, you should now take the "I'm worried about you, there's a serious problem here, you need help" approach. And if he doesn't do anything about it (go to the doc, etc) then seriously start thinking about leaving him (even if temporarily while he sorts himself out) - maybe the prospect of losing his wife and DC will goad him into action? Nobody can live like this (like he does I mean), and it's not fair of him to expect you to live with the consequences of it either without trying to sort it. & I don't necessarily mean force himself to go into work etc - he's clearly got major anxiety issues of some sort and needs professional help.
Thanks, that's what I keep saying to him.. I don't necessarily want him to go to work (although that would be great but not like this!) But I want him to get some help and try and be positive about getting some help. I've explained that for me its the constant uncertainty. The ups and downsa'll the time. It's horrible.
I'm going to try and drag him to the doctors today.
Oh Fairy, I feel so sorry for you. So much shit going on. I dont have anything to offer that hasnt already been said.
Thank you for all the replies.
Just thought I would update that dh went to the GP yesterday and they gave him some anti anxiety medication, which he has started to take today (so he tells me, bit worried he might suddenly stop but I have to give him the benefit of the doubt)..
He has managed to go into work today. Amazingly they have kept his job open and although they don't know the truth they have been very nice....
How long this holds out for I really don't know but I guess I need to be positive. Going to the doctors and getting pills is a massive step for him.
That's good news Fairylea, a good first step. I hope things start getting better now.
It's a start Fairylea.
I would do two things though - plan on going back to work when your ML is up. I know you wanted to stay home with DS, but given the situation, I think mentally planning to go back is a much better idea. At least then you are certain DS (and you and DD) will have a roof over his head, even if he doesn't have you at home with him as you planned
I would see a family lawyer - get a free half hour apt and see if you can get some idea of what your financial situation would be if you told him to leave. There is no harm in asking and knowing where you would stand. Knowledge is power.
I hope that things do work out with DH - but you can't stay in an awful situation just because of the financial situation. You will end up in the same state he is in.
FWIW I don't think people change this much, this quickly - I think he had managed to keep a brave face on when he was in his comfort zone. I think old friends of his and family would be unsurprised at how he is now. You coped as a lone parent before, you could again.
As for DS - you have to knock this 'morning at 4.30 thing on the head. Shush pat/CC/later to bed, whatever it takes. Also look at his daytime naps - is he getting enough/too much sleep in the day. You can't keep this up.
Come back to offload and update.
The new job seems to be going ok. So far. He seems happy there. They seem to like him. He is still amazingly enough taking the anti anxiety medication and seems a lot calmer.
But this last week or so I have been feeling spectacularly depressed. With everything really. I will probably end up going to the doctors. I just need to write here as well.
I realised I cannot return to work (not that I wanted to, but I hate having choices removed from me) as it occurred to me that even with tax credits paying some child care I would still lose a lot of my salary and with two different aged children it becomes very complicated with nursery and or nannies and after school care etc all for 3/4 days a week.... it's my 9.year old.that makes things difficult as obviously during the holidays she will need additional care and I can't just suddenly put her in summer care. She would hate it. And during term time ds would need a nursery place and then I'd have to provide care for dd too... and I don't think I'd feel happy with a nanny. There is no family to ask.
So. I am stuck. Really until ds starts school. I don't earn enough to make it work..and I don't want to work full time..I couldn't do it with my health problems. I'm worn out as it is.
Ds has started sleeping better / later. But I'm finding everything a nightmare. I am drained and fed up. I don't want to go anywhere or do anything because doing anything with a baby is such a hassle. I'm happy with ds, you know playing and cuddling and smiling. But I'm aware it's very much fake it to make it. I can barely talk to my dh right now. We just spent the last few days hardly talking. He is upset with me.
I just feel fed up to the point I want to go on holiday and not come back but I won't.
Hardly fair of him to be upset with you after all the support you gave him, is it? He can't put you into a really stressful situation and not expect it to have any impact. Go to the doctor, get yourself sorted, don't make any final decisions until you need to (ie a month before return date).
As a SAHM, I strongly advise going back to work. I have a new job starting soon and am looking forward to having a level of independence again.
Can you arrange to go back part time? Use your and DH's annual leave to cover holidays?
I would seriously look for a childminder who could take on your dd as well during the school holidays. Obviously you and your dh can use your hols up during school hols so she wouldn't have to go much.
If you do not return to work at all you are leaving yourself very very vulnerable financially. As a SAHM who returned to work after 6 years I would go back in time and work part time throughout instead.
Thanks I do take your point but I really don't know how it would work. My job is 3 days a week from 10 - 4.30 and the busiest time is during the school holidays. They would actually be looking for me to work more then, not work less or take holidays. During term time I could take dd to school and drop ds at nursery next door but it's the after school bit for dd which is hard as it would only be an hour and a half - how many childminders or nannies would do that? And then during summer suddenly up their hours? Hmmm. I'm thinking maybe I should even look for another job. I really don't know.
I thought about asking for unpaid leave during the summer but as that is their busiest time I know they would be horrified at that suggestion.
I don't feel comfortable leaving ds with a nanny or anyone (other alternative to hire a full time nanny for ds who also looks after dd after school 3 days a week)... even with all the reference checks etc I just wouldn't be happy.
I worked full time when dd was little for a long time and I know you can't get that time back.
Saying that I'm not enjoying being at home with ds either. So god knows what I'm supposed to do. Misery guts aren't I.
I'm just so exhausted I want to go to bed at 9 every night , which I have been doing but obviously dh is lonely and our relationship has all but disappeared.
Saturday was awful as I woke up in a terrible mood and didn't want to do anything so dh took ds out for the afternoon and I stayed home. Dh had hoped we would do something together. I feel like digging my heels in and not doing anything but I don't really know why. He hasn't done anything wrong.
I am also angry that I have no family support at all. I don't want the burden and responsibility of friends in real life, I havent got the energy for it but I feel so angry that when dd was little I had my.mum to look after dd sometimes and now due to circumstances I don't have that anymore. Feel I never ever get a break. But then the way I feel now I could have a break for a week and it wouldn't be enough.
A childminder would be best. DH takes my DD to school and hand over my DS to our childminder. She has DS all day, collects DD from school and I collect after work. 3 days a week.
In school hols she has them all day.
Call council, ask for Family Information Service and request list of childminders registered in your area, ask school office for a list of known minders too.
I agree, get back to work. I feel like my days at work are easy days and my children get the best and happy mummy on their two days a week.
It's quite normal for childminders to have children after school and then full time in the holidays. You could probably work longer days in the school hols 3 days per week which would keep your employer happy.
I seriously would go back otherwise your future options with your dh and your finances will be very limited.
At 9 or nearly 10 by the summer dd will be old enough to go to summer play scheme holiday clubs etc or a good childminder will organise activities etc.
It's quite common for childminders to do after school for an hour or two, or there may be clubs after school.
I really don't think your child are options are as limited as you think.
If I were you I would make it clear to your dh that your are going back to work and he has x months to try to get better ie not staying up playing games getting proper sleep, taking his mess seeing gp regularly and if necessary getting counselling for his anxiety. Make it clear that him staying home doing nothing is not an option.
Your dh is clearly dragging you down too, and he must take responsibility for getting better whether this involves a job or not.
It sound like now that your dh is functioning a bit more the feelings of anger with him, which you suppressed in order to look after/help him are coming out. It's very reasonable for you to be massively pissed off, exhausted by it all and feel sad. So take your time, get rested. Maybe it just has to be processed and then you can start forgiving and healing. I hope he keeps improving.
I never believe that you have made it in management unless your name us on the back of the big door. Your not there to be liked. Your there to be responsible for others productivity.
The difference between being a liked manager and an unliked one occurs in the first day you have to say no to something.
Thank you for all your ideas and perspectives. I with get a list of childminders and find out a bit more about it. I'm still very hesitant. I have to be honest and say I'm not very worried about the long term effects of being a sahm as we have a tiny mortgage really compared to a lot of people so should everything go absolutely tits up I could probably pay this just with dds maintenance money from my ex and whatever else incoming I'd have from tax credits etc. At least until I could pick up another part time job... my mum has recently got numerous jobs after being unemployed for 20 years and me writing her cv (used to work in recruitment) so I know it can be done.... its just whether its the right thing to do now or not.
Thank you for the ideas though, you've made me think maybe it is possible.
I suppose I'm also worried about looking back like I do with dd now and feeling I missed so much and was so worried about work and money and everything else.
And you're absolutely right when you say now I can be angry with dh I am very very angry with him for everything I guess. I just feel even though it's unfair of me it's all coming out now. I can't actually bear to talk to him about anything really. But then I feel that way about everyone.
Thing is by doing that I realise I am jepardising all the hard work he's done byggetting on at work and taking the meds. Because I'm pushing him under. Which makes me angry with myself..... !
New years eve was horrible. We didn't talk all evening and I went to bed at 9.30. I could hear him saying "for fucks sake" to himself in exasperation. Neither of us said happy new year or kissed or anything. We didn't talk this morning except pleasantries over ds (dd was in bed).. dh is at work today.
I'm really feeling like I'm checking out of everything. I feel like I just don't give a shit about any of it beyond making sure the kids are ok and we're all fed and watered.
I feel I don't have any energy or time for anything. I might as well be dead. I'm not saying I'm suicidal. I'm not. I'm just invisible. And going to work won't solve that, I hate working too.
I'm just angry with my life I suppose. I'm sorry. I just need to vent.
If neither of you are working you won't be receiving tax credits...
It's a relationship phase. Ups and downs. You are allowed them. You don't have to be perfect all the time.
Please try to give yourself a break, an emotional one not a physical one. <<hug>>
Thanks random, that's actually not true as you would receive the maximum child tax credits, which we have before when we were both struggling for a bit. Working tax credits do stop however. And of course from April universal credit is coming in so things will be quite different then anyway. At the moment dh is working and I am on maternity leave till may so it's just a "what if" ...
Thank you shattereddreams... if it is a phase I hope it passes quickly..
With the way things are I wouldn't assume you'll get any help from the state anymore, it's just the way things are going, but if you're not earning at all it's about £70 per person that you will get in benefits, and I heard something about council tax benefit is being abolished/changed
Yes that's very true. Of course I wouldn't intentionally force myself onto benefits. I was just saying IF the worst happened I'm sure we would manage one way or another. To put things in perspective our mortgage is covered by dds maintenance payment minus an extra £100. But it wouldn't be easy with bills etc. Our bills are very high, but that's our own fault as to be honest we have the heating very hotand use a lot of electricity etc!
I'm going to find out about childminders and nannies tomorrow. Lots of things to think about really.
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