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Red shoes, charming lesbians and pirates with taste...Dating Thread 24

(1000 Posts)
ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 16:36:32

It's the best I could come up with grin

As you were...

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 16:38:38

yay!

western - ive sent you a fb message, or i think its you. it might not be... if not, email me on there and i will reply.

pie - you are divorced, its none of your worry if he doesnt like it ;)

OhWesternWind Mon 15-Oct-12 16:39:25

Good title Watch!

OhWesternWind Mon 15-Oct-12 16:40:10

Oops, sorry, Chaotic! That will teach me to read things properly . . .

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 16:44:08

grin

KirstyWirsty Mon 15-Oct-12 16:51:26

I decided to bin the number left on my windscreen ... Not enough effort made!! :-)

hatesponge Mon 15-Oct-12 16:59:06

Agree - great title Chaotic smile

And Watch thanks re WHEN not if...although it does tend to feel like the latter much of the time. Hence continuing residence on the sofa!

UnbridledPositivity Mon 15-Oct-12 17:04:04

Ooh, new thread. You might (or probably wouldn't!) remember me from several threads ago: I posted about the ethics of Facebook/Internet stalking potential dates. Really appreciated all your advice.

After umming and aahing for months now (!), I finally took the plunge and messaged the pof guy I've had my eye on. blush

He replied quite quickly and said I'd sent 'quite an impressive introductory message'. We work in the same (massive) place, so I suggested coffee, and he said that would be easier than replying to everything in my message. Seems quite positive (I think!), but I'm now a bit blush about the length of my message.

As I'm uncomfortable with putting a photo on pof and managed to find out lots about him, I said I'd send him the link to my profile on a professional networking site which has a photo of me on it. Is that stupid?

He wants to meet tomorrow! blush But I don't have time, so is it ok to suggest a range of other possible times? I think I'm actually going to meet him, if my photo doesn't put him off. blush It'll be my first date in 9 years...! I already know I shouldn't get my hopes up, but what else do I need to know?

DD's dad pisses me off every day, and we've been separated for ages, but this makes it seem really final, and I'm not sure how to deal with that. I'd still prefer to make things work with him, but 1) he's made it clear he's not interested in even 5 mins of doorstep conversation, 2) he's an arse, 3) I'm happier without him, 4) he's not the same person he was when we met, 5) we just don't work together anymore, and 6) he was a frequenter of adultwork. But this feels weird. sad

My situation: 27, one DD aged 3. Been living on our own for 2 years.

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 17:16:23

Ooh, I go out for a few hours and look what happens!

I had a "casual" conversation with DCs over the summer about dating (I was seeing mr60 at the time but never mentioned him specifically, just kept it general). They thought it was quite funny but said they were fine with it, then DS decided it would be cool if I went out with Tony Hawk (skateboarder, very hot but i think he's been married like 4 times already). hmm

A few days later, XH says, "So, the kids said you were talking to them about dating....?" looking at me expectantly as if I'm going to offer him some interesting information. I just shrugged and said yes we were.

Hi Unbridled. My DC's dad still pisses me off regularly as well although I can't even imagine wanting to get back with him. If you're happier without him and he pisses you off so much why would you want to make things work with him? (Also, what's adultwork?)

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 17:18:29

BTW - quick question for FBers - do you list your relationship status (ie "single") on FB? Just curious.

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 17:22:48

Unbridled it's fine to offer a range of other dates. What else do you need to know? Relax, be yourself, wear something that is comfortable and you feel good in. A lunchtime/coffee date would be good. Oh, and forget the ex, I'm happier without him,, keep this in mind.

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 17:26:35

Yoga grin @ Tony Hawk. I have my relationship status set to single but you'd have to click on the 'about' button to see it.

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 17:29:37

i have it hidden yoga. i dont feel the need to declare myself as anything.
HAHAHA,who am i trying to kid, but it is hidden.

UnbridledPositivity Mon 15-Oct-12 17:38:57

Thanks Chaotic .

Yoga , I just wish we could be a straightforward family. If you don't already know what adultwork is, you don't want to know...

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 17:49:05

unbridled. Hello! I think it's fine to say you're busy tomorrow, but how about (specify day). I wouldn't worry about your opening message. smile

I got a message on linked in from a guy I dated a bit when I was 16! Added him on fb, he's married, there will be no jiggery-pokery especially as time does not look like it has been his friend but it would be interesting to see what the last 27 years has held. smile

Irrationally annoyed with PM, my first day back at my own work, no check-in, no 'good luck' for finding out about the money situation and I really can't be arsed with the lesbian-champagne-reception on Friday. It'll be a repeat of the lesbian ball, everyone being arsey and 'where have you two been?' and inappropriate singing. I don't really want to go. But it's his birthday. Quandary.

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 17:50:04

Oh and watch........... HUBBA HUBBA!!!!!!!!!! <rubs thighs in vic reeves-like manner>

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 18:11:37

Snape, how did it go first day back? And any news about the money stiuation?

Unbridled - yeah, i get that. It was really, really hard to let go of the life I thought I had. But I think until you do that it's really hard to move forward and focus on what actually makes you happy. Don't stress too much about the date, it's just coffee, just try and relax. smile

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 18:16:13

No news about money situation, team lovely and I've got a really interesting and pertinent policy area, so it's a fab job. V. Pleased. smile.

Just hacked off with PM being all aspergic and no 'break a leg' text. <shreds notebook>. I don't want to marry him anymore. Insensitive tosser. Pffffft. <is tired and grumpy and feeling sorry for herself>

MacAndCheese Mon 15-Oct-12 18:19:09

Don't shred it Snape!

Congratulations on your new job. thanks

Just checking in.

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 18:56:25

snape Don't. you. dare. shred that notebook. Do hit PM over the head with it though wink

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 19:06:05

Ahem. Date 5 arranged too. Even though date 4 hasnt happened yet
smile

Snape. Text him something sarky? Do you really have to go. Could you do something the night before.... or night after?

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 19:25:00

Oh, he's texted. Blown him out for the gym tonight tho'... Can't do day before, school-night (& I already have plans - lovely colleague leaving drinks) the night after he's down the sodding coast. Just got an email offering VIP area that night for a Mexican club with £140 of free drinks and a sharing platter chucked in. Might do that instead. He can go hang with the sultry lesbians.

Yay for date 5! smile

Walkacrossthesand Mon 15-Oct-12 19:25:15

Is this thread just for those who know what it's about, or can anyone join in? Whoops - can't join in, I have No Idea what you are allon about! :-)

OhWesternWind Mon 15-Oct-12 19:31:16

Hello Walk - sorry if it all seems a bit confusing. Come and join in, ask questions and tell all about how dating' going for you ...

OhWesternWind Mon 15-Oct-12 19:39:20

Watch. Whoopee for date 5!! What are you planning?

MacAndCheese Mon 15-Oct-12 19:59:40

Welcome Walk

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 20:07:57

<waves at walk>

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 20:10:22

hi walk smile if you are dating, thinking about it, or have in the past, then join in smile

i dont know what we are going to do for date 5.... probably discuss it wed. Hes just coming here wed, it wont be a late one because of work. but its his only free evening this week, and he really wants to see me smile

snape - kidnap him and go to the mexican thing? smile

fayster Mon 15-Oct-12 20:15:21

Hello, Walk! You'll soon catch up, don't worry. Lovely to see so many people getting out there dating.

So when will the gift-giving take place, Snape?

I've realised I have a massive crush on a married friend. Worse still, I think it might be reciprocated. This means I have an even more urgent need of dating to get him out of my head!

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 20:24:04

Mexican thing is a VIP thing for 10. Doubt I could muster an additional 8 folk at short notice for Friday (might go on my own on Saturday and drink the monster 10 person free cocktail myself.... )

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 20:32:23

Hi all,

so given that this is a thread on dating for women, and I'm a guy, (although a longtime lurker on MN) should I butt out now and just be a lurker, or would you like to hear my weird experiences of OD? And maybe I could even defend my gender or explain why some men think the weird way they do?

(also, I think the notebook should have gone in the bag as that would be a fantastic thing to find)

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 20:37:29

A man!!!!!!!

wink

You're very welcome and do, please tell all.

(Can't see a way of sneaking it into his bag...)

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 20:41:46

a man!!! yes, welcome smile

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 20:43:51

Actually - as a man, you could be extremely helpful and give me your opinion via-a-vis what your reaction might be if your platonic female best friend gave you such a notebook. Would you run for the hills? Is it a bit much? smile

MirandaWest Mon 15-Oct-12 20:46:49

Men are very welcome here smile

Watch pirate looks good smile

Mr Nice and the DC and I are meeting on Thursday night. Decided it was time for it to happen.

My relationship status was nothing when I stopped being married. Then put it into a relationship a few months ago. Was pleased to get nice posts about it grin

UnbridledPositivity Mon 15-Oct-12 20:48:43

Have sent him my info now, photo, name, work area, everything. But I know the same about him already. Still - eeek.

How do you deal with the first meeting? The way I see it at the moment, never having done this before, doesn't it basically mean you're saying 'hi, I'm looking for a shag and liked the look of you'?

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 20:50:06

well, platonic is a bit odd. I have platonic friends I secretly fancy, but never got together with, but if they gave me that I'd move across the world for them, and platonic friends I don't fancy at all, and I would probably get all weirded out if they gave me a notebook. I don't know the backstory here, so if you want to recap I'm happy to help.

And can I just say, it's been a long time since I entered any kind of room and heard "A man! A Man!". It makes me feel all kind of warm and fuzzy inside. Thank you. And please don't kill me and eat me.

MacAndCheese Mon 15-Oct-12 20:52:45

Welcome bantam feel free to share. Make yourself at home smile

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 20:54:57

hahahaha bant. lol. we might.
smile

unbridled - no, a first date isnt really a date. its more of a hi, to see if you like them enough for an actual date. Dont worry about it, just go and have funsmile

miranda - yay. how exciting smile good luck and tell us how it goes.

and yeah, the pirate is kind of hot. i do fancy him a lot. A LOT. still, not going to sleep with him quite yet.

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 20:56:42

Hi Unbridled. I'd say no, meeting someone for the first time doesn't mean you're looking for a shag and liked the look of you. To be honest, if I meet someone for the first time and they want to shag me the first time, then being a bloke I'll usually (unless they're really not my type at all) take the opportunity. I know that makes me a bad person, and if I'm completely sober I'll possibly make my excuses and leave, but if it's on offer we're kind of programmed to take it. And then never call again because we don't want to get together with someone that easy.

Can I be honest here and say what I think blokes will do or should I try and be tactful and leave hope for all you romantics out there? Romance is great, a lot of us do actually love it, but you've got to spend some time to get beyond our limbic system (the part of our brain that wants to eat, kill and shag) to our more developed brain. Once you're there, you're in. But to be honest we're fairly primitive on first encounter. We look at the world and our instinctive response is "can I kill it? No? Can I have sex with it?". It's the way we're made, I'm afraid.

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 20:59:52

Watch fantastic news about date 5 smile

Hello, Walk, welcome to the thread. We're here to listen to each other's dating experiences, well those of us who aren't sofa surfing that is.

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 21:08:26

Knew I should have refreshed before posting.

if it's on offer we're kind of programmed to take it. And then never call again because we don't want to get together with someone that easy.

That easy? hmm

Do you consider yourself 'easy' for sleeping with someone on the first date?

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 21:12:20

Hi Walk, hi Bantam - you may regret this, you'll be having all of us asking you what the men we've met/dated/shagged etc are thinking!

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 21:18:27

Oh I can't recap bantam. It's all too tedious...

(Sigh). My best friend, met three years ago on a course, we live two streets away from each other, when we're drunk (which is often blush) we're very tactile, hand holding etc. everyone thinks we're a couple, but we're not. He's turned me down before, last occasion January 2011. Kids all adore him, we go snowball fighting and he lets my DS2 put his hair in curlers. When he started seeing someone last year, I backed right off, because if you love someone you can't intrude. It didn't work out and I was gloriously happy. Sometimes we look at each other and beam. He gets me. He has terminally low self-esteem, is borderline aspergic and suffers from depression. He can be a lot of work sometimes. I love him.

Sorry for the tired re-hash everyone who already knows. I'm currently thinking notebook is a ridiculous idea. I just need to be brave and at least my cards are firmly on the table if I don't chicken out

No idea when he's getting it hmm. His birthday is next Monday.

hatesponge Mon 15-Oct-12 21:20:53

I'm sorry, I've really tried not to bite to that comment but referring to someone as 'that easy'?

Nice.

hmm

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 21:21:22

'Easy'?!?!

<hands around serviettes and condiments>

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 21:27:09

Ok well I just wrote a hugely long response to Chaotic about if we consider ourselves easy (and yes, some of us do, and don't do it, some of us just think it's a notch in the bedpost and grin. There's no one rule) and MN or the network in my hotel lost the huge long post and I got tired typing it.

Snape I read some of the notebook entries, and I think it's amazing. having just read your description of stuff I would say hold off. Yes I know people will shout at me, and I know everyones hoping for a romantic ending here, but I think you have to clarify feelings from both sides here. I think if he's borderline aspergic you have to make sure things are understood about how you feel, and check how he feels, before you move in with the whole undying declarations of the Pixies. Once you've done that, the notebook is an amazing thing, but it's like hitting someone over the head with a big stick full of 'I love you', If they love you back, then it's wonderful, but maybe a small stick would work better? And if they don't, a small stick doesn't break stuff so much?

I dunno. It's difficult to know how anyones going to react without actually knowing all the ins and outs.

Taghain Mon 15-Oct-12 21:28:38

I presume you mean an electronic notebook rather than a nice Moleskine paper article? Both would be good, but something that expensive would be worryingly overwheming for me. But I'm not very into presents.
You know him best. Would he like it?

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 21:31:42

Ha, no. Moleskin.

I think he'll appreciate the artistic content, the sentiment is another matter altogether....

Taghain Mon 15-Oct-12 21:34:59

In that case, a Moleskine is the perfect present. Not too expensive to make the recipient feel beholden, but luxurious (?) enough that they would be reluctant to buy one for themselves (unless they're comfortable or self-indulgent)

Yes, a good idea.

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 21:35:36

And I seem to have offended people with the 'easy' comment. And I'm sorry. The fact is that I think a lot of men want the chase. A bit. We want to know that the woman we are pursuing, who may be wonderful, and funny, and beautiful, and gorgeous - all those things, is worth everything we're willing to put in to try and 'get' them. All the phone calls, dinners, texts, emails, waiting in a restaurant alone because you're fashionably late, the romantic moments, the things we do to make you feel special - all of that is to get someone who gets us, and makes us feel special, and wonderful.

And if you don't do all of that, the waiting, the funny moments. If you don't (and I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get flamed for this) - if you don't prove you're worth all of that effort from us, then we lose interest. Anything which is worth getting is worth trying for. If you just want a quickie with us, you may just want a quickie with the next guy, we want someone who knows how amazing we are, and will only want to be with us. If we didn't have to try hard, then the next guy won't have to try hard either.

If, however, there is too much chase, we lose interest too. Think of it like throwing a stick for a dog - however patronising that might sound. If you just throw the stick at it's feet, it loses interest fairly quickly. Throw the stick across 6 fields and it just goes and sulks. And we're simple creatures.

<awaits the flames>

KirstyWirsty Mon 15-Oct-12 21:39:41

Bantam I will come to your rescue and suggest that by easy you meant not enough of a challenge ??

I've just read 'why men love bitches' which suggests the same thing (and is a very entertaining read to boot)

KirstyWirsty Mon 15-Oct-12 21:41:17

Oops you can stand up for yourself but we are both saying the same thing

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 21:43:53

Some of us don't consider ourselves to be 'easy' because we have sex on the first date. Some of us just consider ourselves to be normal, sexual beings who enjoy having sex from time to time. It doesn't have to be a notch on the bedpost either, some times it can develop into a relationship.

Having said that I am curious...do you only judge one sex as being easy or are you an equal opportunities both sexes are easy person?

Btw welcome to the thread.

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 21:44:16

Taghain - I think you're missing what the notebook is all about - you should go back a thread and check out snape's links. (It's not just any moleskin notebook... wink)

Bantam - interesting to get your perspective, please don't let us scare you off!

hatesponge Mon 15-Oct-12 21:46:06

Sorry that stuff about the chase is just bollocks.

From my POV I've had sex on first dates. I've not had sex on first dates. Frankly it makes fuck all difference to the outcome, except for the fact that were it not for the first date sex, I wouldn't have had sex at all in 4 years.

But you know, go ahead, tell me that's down to something I'm doing wrong. That I'm clearly a bit odd/slutty/ugly/not observing the rules of the chase properly...

Taghain Mon 15-Oct-12 21:47:18

Umph. I think all that (Bantam's post) depends upon the man, the woman & their relationship. There's a touch of the Rules about it.
We all know people whose pick-up & one-night stand turned into a long successful relationship. The dog/stick metaphor may work sometimes, but you could also use a dog/bone one, where guaranteed sex will keep someone coming back for more until you know each other well enough to decide what else you have in common. And at least you also both get laid.

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 21:48:00

x-posts

If we didn't have to try hard, then the next guy won't have to try hard either.

That isn't necessarily true. I'm far more complex than that.

Taghain Mon 15-Oct-12 21:49:08

(YG17, I'll look. I've been off the site for a couple of weeks and these move so damn fast)

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 21:56:38

bant - i think you are wrong.
On friday i had a good snogging session with the pirate, as in a few hours. Not once did he even touch my boobs. nor try to. he could have done. i wouldnt have stopped him, and had he made the moves to i would have slept with him.
so - it was there, on a plate as it were. and he didnt take it, nor push for it.

i dont think all men are the same.

ive also had relationships that have started from one night stands.. in fact my marriage did.

i think its kind of crap.

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 21:57:11

chaotic thankyou for the welcome smile

I think 'easy' is based upon if you're trying to get something. I once read a comment that a guy will go on a date wondering if she's going to have sex tonight. The girl will know if she is. Men are simple creatures in that respect. Yes we can invent space exploration and write poetry and amazing songs and art, but our first instinct is to have sex or kill things, and layers of civilisation have put layers down over that to make sure we only have sex with the right things, and kill the right things, and also not to put our fingers in holes which may have a live electrical connection.

The point is that men and women may come to dating from different directions. I think a lot of us share the same end point - the settling down, exploring the world, giggling together over in-jokes, having children. A lot of us want that. But we have different paths to that end. Men will, if you'll pardon the expression, fuck as many women as they can until they find the one. Women generally won't. It's all down to biology really, we have lots of seed to spread, and will go off to new tribes and spread it there, women want to nurture more and will settle down and build a nest. That's not being sexist, that's just saying we're different. And if you appreciate that we're different, you'll not make the same assumptions.

I was driving a couple of weeks ago and was following some little car down a country lane, when there was a girl cycling towards us down the lane. The guy in the passenger seat of the car in front suddenly leaped halfway out of his window, waving his shirt in the air, whooping and yelling something at the girl on the bike, then laughing manically. Now he was in his early 20s, I'm in my late 30s, so my instinctive response when I meet him anyway is going to be 'tosser'.

And the girl looked upset at whatever he'd said. And I was wondering to myself - why did he do that. He obviously wasn't going to 'pull' her, as he was driving past her at 50mph. So he did it for the benefit of his mate who was driving, to get kudos. And again I think 'tosser'. He just upset a girl he'd never met, to impress a bloke who was driving the car a bit, and this is what men can be.

However, we also wrote shakespeare and dido and aneas, and lots of stuff like that, so we're not all bad.

UnbridledPositivity Mon 15-Oct-12 22:01:19

Hmm, while I applaud Bantam's offer to educate us women about the male perspective, I don't think there is a single unified male perspective, and one man can't really speak for all of mankind... I wouldn't dream of telling anyone what women in general like and don't like.

The other thing is, I absolutely won't play games - so I won't calculate just how much of a 'chase' I'm providing a guy with.

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 22:05:22

bant, i really dont think women always plan when they are going to get laid. i think you are seeing it from a male point of view and making stereotyped statements, and we are seeing it from a female point of view and making stereotypes.

bottom line is we are all human, i dont think people plan when they are going to shag, it mostly just happens, or not. and men who go around fucking indiscrimiately are likely to be knob heads with diseases who dont get the girl in the long run anyway.....

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 22:08:32

And I should also point out I'm trying to generalise here, from conversations I've had with other guys. We don't generally talk about our feelings with each other, but sometimes we do after a few drinks or knowing each other for years.

And nothing I say is going to apply in all cases.

I was with my first girlfriend (of 7 years) for the first two years before we had sex. Another one we slept together on the second date, another on the first, and yet another after a couple of months, There isn't a single rule.

But I think generally, if you sleep with someone on the first date, and you're still together after a few more dates, you've got lucky and found yourself a good bloke. There is a mental process men go through when they're looking to meet someone - for long term or short term. The first one is : Do I fancy her? The second one is : Do I like her?

Now I think women have similar stages here, do I fancy him, do I like him. However the next one: Will she have sex with me? Tends to trump the other two to a great extent. Not always, but if we've had a couple of drinks then that one may take over.

Whereas that one is always a given for you. You know he'll probably have sex with you given the opportunity. So in some men, if that 3rd question is answered early, and the other two are 'yeses' then fantastic. If the 3rd question is answered early and either of the two are 'nos' then what the hell, we had sex anyway.

Animalistic, as I said. And I haven't done a straw poll here, but this is what I think.

So who wants to answer my dating question, cos I'm confused as hell on this one girl I met

mcmooncup Mon 15-Oct-12 22:10:49

Always wondered what went on on this thread seeing as I'm a 'dater'.

Mansplaining, I see shock

Bantom.......seriously, you really believe all that shit??? <banging head a lot>

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 22:18:31

bantom - thing is, we probably couldnt help, seeing as we dontknow her....
but, fire away.

FateLovesTheFearless Mon 15-Oct-12 22:18:52

Going by your theories bantman, I may actually be a male stuck in a woman's body grin

Marking my spot ----> X

For those that don't know me, been on the dating thread since Lubey first made it, i am 28 with 4 kids, divorcing, was in a relationship for a year (amazing considering I slept with him on the first date grin) that ended last month, am now in a new...thing...with platonic male friend who pounced on me a couple of weeks back.

Yoga - my relationship status on fb is single but I think you have to click about to actually see it. After the ups and downs of my last relationship I think I will just leave it as it is.

Watch - hurrah for date number five! Has it been all quiet from the puppy?

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 22:20:30

smile. bantam. Fire away, I like that's she's got you on a back-foot, have all your preconceptions come tumbling down? grin

Fwiw, your perspective is interesting and it is something to think about - I think you do speak from a personal perspective and there may be sweeping generalisations, but you do make the point that occasionally people meet, have sex on a first date and they just get on with things, be happy. I think you confirm some of our suspicions that there are a bunch of sleazy guys out there who will shag indiscriminately because they can and that might not necessarily end in confetti, occasionally it does, that's nice, but we've all wailed about shag-n-runners, it does happen and they don't get back in contact for whatever reason, because they've filled their boots and think we're sluts, because they're terrified by the extent of their emotions wink because we're sexually demanding velociraptors they can never hope to satisfy with their inadequate collective peni or just because. To an extent I couldn't give a stuff what is going on in their heads - I don't believe in 'the rules', I think they suffice to diminish women's sexuality and introduce tedious game-playing to something that should be very easy - you like someone, you want to have sex with them, just have sex with them.

You're brave. smile. That's good.

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 22:21:27

i also dont think its agiven then men will have sex with anyone. ive been, embarassingly, in a situation where we were fooling around, naked. but he refused as sex was special even though i actually asked and clearly i wasnt.....
!!!
worst still he continued to chase me for non special any thing other than actual sex, for about 9 months.
go figure.

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 22:24:50

cheers for asking fate. no all quiet. hes tagged me in a fbpic ( left him on under the guise of being friends) its not actually a pic of me though. ive commented. thats it.

i do feel very relieved about the wholething.

and yes, date 5. very excited. More so i think pirate is more excited than me smile

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 22:28:15

I think bantam is trying to give a generalised pov when really he can't because he cannot possibly know what every man thinks/pov.

bantam just give us your pov, much more productive in letting us know how some men think. Oh, and never try to imagine how a woman would think/act...you'll just get it completely wrong.

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 22:31:25

I agree with snape (then again when do I not agree with snape - I think the notebook has caused us all to fall a little in love with her wink) - anyway, as I was saying, I think Bantam offers an interesting perspective but just one to add to the pot and not "the definitive male perspective".

Bantam - you say you're late 30s but curious what your situation is. Have you been married/divorced/have kids/looking to have kids...? I think some of these make a difference as to where we're at and what we want at any given time. Also curious to hear your dating dilemna.

Thanks for those who have answered about their FB status. I used to have mine as "married". When XH & split I just deleted it but debating whether to change it to single or leave it as nothing.

hatesponge Mon 15-Oct-12 22:34:37

This just makes me glad I'm not bothering with OD at the moment, because I suspect bantam's are exactly the views held by every man I've had the misfortune to encounter hmm

And The Rules are bullshit btw, the game-playing stuff is just a jarr, and they presuppose that a man is actually seeking a relationship when it seems the vast majority of men OD either aren't looking for one or are incapable of one.

Generalisation on my part of course.

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 22:36:55

snape - I agree with everything you said, except the part about men being terrified by the extent of their emotions.

I think generally (and not in all cases, don't yell at me here) women have a closer connection between emotions and sex. Men find it much easier to shag and run. We do have that connection it's not that we don't, and I think most of us find it much more satisfying and fulfilling when both are there, but we are more able to disconnect the two, and get one vs the other. Some men are looking to fill their boots, scratch and itch, more than women are.

And when people say I speak from a personal perspective, I'm trying to speak from a generalised perspective. Yes I've had a few ONSs, but generally if I don't want things to go too far, I'll back out. But then I like to think of myself as a renaissance man smile and can only go on what my mates are telling me. And I have female friends too who are just looking to fill their boots, I know this isn't a man-only thing.

So, my story. Do you want to hear it?

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 22:38:53

Okay, having read those, I will no longer try and generalise about men. I'll give my perspective only, although it may not work in lots of cases. Is that okay?

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 22:40:23

Go on, tell your story Bantam. (And i do think that your own personal POV might be more helpful than trying to guess what all men are thinking)

watchoutforthatsnail Mon 15-Oct-12 22:42:29

Oh, men want to fill their boots more than women do. Oh, that is just too funny.
Guess what, women really like and want sex too. Quite often more than men.....

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 22:46:44

And sponge - I wasn't saying those were my views, I was saying those were views held by men after talking with them down the pub.

So, I'm 38, separated just under a year, two DD (6 and 4) who are, quite frankly, awesome. I had a few OD dates, where there just wasn't a spark, so I was thinking that maybe all the emails and phone calls beforehand to make sure she wasn't insane (which a few women are) kind of ruined all the anecdotes and funny stories - or at least took away some of the stuff to talk about on a first date.

Then, 5th girl I met up with in real life, was really very beautiful, and funny. and interesting and intelligent. We talked the place closed after 4 hours of coffee and drinks, then I walked her back to her car and a quick kiss. And so much eye contact.

Then , second date, lots of talking again over sushi, walked her back to her car. By this point I'd realised she wasn't that great at responding to texts - as in it took her a day to respond. Or sometimes two. But. a few more kisses when I walked her back to her car again, and I asked her if she'd be up for a 3rd date, she said yes.

So, a week later, she cancelled due to sickness. She was really looking forward to it, but was too ill, could we do next week. So of course I texted to say yes. And then no response. So I'm confused. She was making all the eye contact, she was very much looking forward to next date, she cancelled, she didnt respond. I should pack it it now, right?

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 22:50:26

I do think (forgive me ladies) a lot of us have experienced the shag-n-runners and bantam gives us an opportunity to express our ire. And thank you bantam for not disappearing because we're all going 'easy!!!!? I'll give you easy'. wink

(Was kidding about the 'extent of your emotions' thing btw.).

The bloke I was seeing earlier in the year (I can't even remember what his mn nickname was now) who broke my two & a half year drought, I shagged him on the 4th date, never heard from him again, he kept his eyes shut the whole time, it was like I was anyone. I'm certainly not. So, it's something to chalk up to experience. Meh. The prof (intermittent fwb) maintains it was because he was terrified. I prefer that explanation to the over-ride head-tape that I'm actually a bit of a moose... hmm

mercury7 Mon 15-Oct-12 22:50:31

(marking my place in the dating lounge smile )

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 22:50:42

How long since you've heard from her?

Walkacrossthesand Mon 15-Oct-12 22:53:39

Hi all, thanks for all your waves & welcomes, they arrived during a little 'wander off' on my part. If it's alright with you I shall lurk wistfully like a child with nose pressed against toyshop window - my foray into OD was spectacularly unsuccessful. Tried 2 different sites, chose a couple of nice pics, tried different profile styles, sent some messages to likely-looking lads, none of whom had manners enough to reply, and I gave up after 3 months. Found it more demoralising to keep hoping for a message, than just to get on with being single, TBH. Maybe I'll meet someone just when I'm out & about. But I shall enjoy reading about your adventures!

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 22:54:39

I'd text her and ask her how she's feeling, then take it from there. I'm not a big texter myself, I much prefer to meet up and talk in person than waste time emailing/texting. If this was me I'd probably not have text because I wasn't feeling well, then it would be 'I must text x' but it would take me a while to get round to it.

Other's will give you different advice, I can only go off what I'm like and you said she wasn't a prolific texter. Text her, if she replies than suggest another date and see what she says. If she agrees but doesn't arrange an actual date then I'd say don't waste your time.

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 22:57:04

Yes. Pack it. 'She's just not that into you'... (Sorry!)

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 22:57:20

Walk I'm constantly wandering off, sometimes I even leave mn wink

I'm currently sofa surfing so come and join me and sponge and some of the others. We're here to listen to and advise those who are doing the actual dating atm.

Movingforward123 Mon 15-Oct-12 22:57:55

Hi just marking my place smilesmile

Walkacrossthesand Mon 15-Oct-12 22:58:36

PS bantamrooster - if I'd just met someone who I could talk to for 4 hours, who was clearly keen, I'd make sure I replied to his texts! So the fact that she didn't would indicate either that she's not that into you, or she has more complicated stuff going on that she hasn't shared - like a boyfriend? confused

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 22:58:51

Bantam - maybe she was hoping for a post-sushi shag and she's disappeared cause you threw the stick too far? wink

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:01:21

Hi chaotic, yoga

well my last text from her was 6 days ago, since then I've sent two 'how are you' type texts, and nothing back. So I've got to work out that fine line between 'I really think you're nice and would like to go out again' and 'I'm stalking you'. Ptchah. Tough line to draw. But even if she does want to go out again I'm thinking someone so noncommunicative isn't what I want anyway. So.

What's a boy to do?

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:02:54

6 days...I think you have your answer

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 23:03:24

A boy goes to play with his tonka toys.

A man moves on.

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:03:43

and yoga thanks for that grin She seemed into me, but not that into me (at that moment). It's the whole 'I'm really looking forward to monday', then 'I'm sick can we rearrange' then '.....' that kind of annoyed me. Why say you're really looking forward to it when you're not?

Ah well. Back to the website.

mercury7 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:04:07

Guess what, women really like and want sex too. Quite often more than men.....
gotta agree with you there Watch!
in my experience lots of men just arent really up to the job..not that I have an enormous sample size mind, but really if they're no good at that, well, I have no other use for themgrin

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:04:39

On the plus side, there's a girl from russia who wants to be my bride.

hatesponge Mon 15-Oct-12 23:05:16

I was going to say she's probably waiting for you to text her and suggest a rearranged date.

However as you have text twice with no reply I rather think that's your answer.

But of course what would I know, I never get beyond the first date so my opinion is probably moot.

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 23:07:34

Based on the further information give it up. Like I said I'm not a big texter but if you text me than I'd reply.

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 23:08:08

'Why say you're really looking forwards to it when you're not'

Oh. Men and women, we're not really that different, are we......

Never mind, hoist up your bosom (no, wait, umm) square your shoulders, move on.

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:08:45

LOL snape!

Who knows Bantam - I think it just goes to show that men & women are more similar in their approach to this than you think though. I've done that too (sort of). Had date no. 1, enjoyed it (no kissing though), told him I enjoyed it (which I did at the time). Agreed to date no. 2 but by the following week just had second thoughts & cancelled with a fib & vague promises to reschedule and then just never did. To be fair though, he never pursued it either. Both sexes can do the disappearing act.

I'll tell you what we tell everyone on here - you will probably never know. Maybe she was into you and then someone else she was more into came along, maybe she changed her mind, maybe she got back together with an ex, maybe she's developed some strange rash, maybe she was just lying...

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:10:21

yoga. I'll choose to believe in the rash to protect my own precious ego smile

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:11:10

Okay so do you want me to give a rundown of the other 4 dates so you can flame me for those too, or sympathise with me?

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 23:11:37

Yes! Go!

There are no secrets here!

mercury7 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:12:37

's true Yoga, I mean you can just sort of change your mind and go off someone for no identifiable reason, one day you feel all 'swoony' about him wake up the next day and just feel 'yeah, whatever...'

hatesponge Mon 15-Oct-12 23:12:45

I spent nearly 3 weeks after a first date texting someone who was allegedly ill. We arranged 2 dates in that time which he cancelled due to illness. And then one day I text him and he never replied.

He's still on the same site though, 5 months later.

hatesponge Mon 15-Oct-12 23:13:43

I never get the opportunity to change my mind about men, they all change theirs about me first.

mercury7 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:13:59

just spare us the evolutionary psychology explanations please Bantam wink

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:15:18

Okay, date #1. I was new to the OD thing. She seemed nice enough, only one picture on there, but a funny profile (and funny is what gets me interested). We emailed a few times, texted a few times, then we met up and, well I just didn't fancy her. Which seemed a shame because she was funny and smart. But there just wasn't chemistry. So, a drink, a meal, a kiss (on the cheek) goodnight, That was date #1

OhWesternWind Mon 15-Oct-12 23:17:25

Got a bit of a confession to make - still haven't properly shagged the optician even when we had the all-nighter (although we had ahem an enjoyable time doing other things). So, we've had date 5, date 6 will be no sex either as there are children at mine and his mums coming to stay at his this week - so it could be some time. Is this lobbing the stick five fields away (thanks Bantam!)?? It will happen before too long, I'm not playing games with the poor bloke but it's difficult to get time, venue and everything else all to work out. Think I will suggest a daytime rendezvous during half term and send the children to kids club ....

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:19:11

Date #2, not so close to home so I drove there, we had coffee and talked for a couple of hours, we got on well, but, well, this makes me seem shallow (and yes, yes I know you'll hate me) but I don't really fancy very large women. She'd described herself as 'curvy' and she was 'BBW' or something. So, no spark, and a little annoyed at the lie. I don't describe myself as being 6'2, I'm only 5'10, why describe yourself as something you're not when you're going to out yourself as a fibber so easily?

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:21:39

western I apologise about the dog/stick metaphor. It's different for every one. Good guys will wait if there's a reason, some guys will make you wait (and there may not be a good reason). I think lobbing the stick was just my clumsy metaphor for holding out for no reason for too long when it seems like the right thing to do. I'm just inviting flames here, aren't I?

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 23:22:43

God, was I date #1.... Or potentially date #2??

mercury7 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:23:11

I think we really should get rid off the dog and stick metaphor pdq!!

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:23:38

sponge - your opinion is not moot, all just valuable experience to learn by!

bantam - if there's no spark there's no spark. If it is there then no amount of pre-date texting or emailing is going to leave you with nothing to talk about surely?

hatesponge Mon 15-Oct-12 23:23:49

Men lie all the time on their profiles! Every date I've had has been shorter than claimed.

And the size thing is tricky. I am a 14-16. To some men I am average, some might describe me as curvy. I've also been called obese and fat. It's all in the perception. I can't bear the whole BBW thing and would never describe myself as that, but it's clear from my photos that I'm not a sz 8 - didn't she have photos from which her size was apparent? Or were her photos cropped and/or years old?

ChaoticismyLife Mon 15-Oct-12 23:24:29

Ahem...curvy is in the eye of the beholder.

So far par for the course, go on.

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:24:53

I agree mercury - i think given the context, the stick metaphor could take on a life of its own otherwise! grin

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:26:50

ok, we'll drop the stick. Should I say squeaky bone instead?

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:26:50

Sorry to sound ignorant (for the second time today!) but what's BBW?

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:28:00

Big Beautiful Woman.

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 23:28:15

Big beautiful woman.

snapespeare Mon 15-Oct-12 23:28:38

Fainites!!!!

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:32:20

On to date #3. Nice but not my type, personality wise. Quite boring, no desire to see the world outside her village, coffee, pizza, awkward moment when I asked if she wanted to meet up again out of politeness more than anything else, whilst simultaneously kicking myself internally because I realised I didn't want to but felt like I should rather than just saying 'cheers then' and heading off. She also didn't want to meet again, so it made it easier.

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:39:08

And yoga - I don't know about the amount of mailing beforehand. I mean, everyone has stories to tell, funny things to say, a background to describe, favourite bands/books/tv shows/films - all the stuff that lead to those 'me too!' moments when you're really connecting with someone. If you've talked about all this stuff beforehand, then what do you talk about when you're trying to work out if they fancy you. This could be what makes awkward silences on a first date which could be comfortable silences later one. And if you've been talking to multiple people online, how much is there a case of 'did I already tell you this?' when you meet in person. It's kind of a fine line to tread, again. Too much information versus not enough

Yogagirl17 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:44:43

Bantam - I guess when I get to the point where I'm sharing personal stuff (beyond the what bands/books/films do you like, what do you do for a living etc) I'm usually focusing on one person at that point, at least temporarily. Not saying that if I start telling them about my kids or other relationships or whatever that I've decided we're getting married or anything. I still stand by the 'if the spark is there there won't be any awkward silences' idea.

Anyway, I'm off to bed, will have to catch up on date no 4 tomorrow.

bantamrooster Mon 15-Oct-12 23:51:29

yoga I see your point. I just think that a lot of it is about eyes. When you're on a date with someone, there's a lot of looking right into their eyes, they're looking back at you, you know there's some big chemistry going on here. If not, if it's just a conversation with someone, there's not the big long looks at someone. And when that's going on, you've got to have something to talk about, and the easiest stuff to talk about is books/films/the finest works of Andre Previn/whatever. If you're too busy trying to think of things to see which will make your date see how witty and smart and funny you are, you don't get to run your mouth on autopilot while trying to see if they fancy you. Maybe that's just me.

hatesponge Tue 16-Oct-12 00:11:20

I've never really experienced awkward silences on dates. But then there's always seemed to be lots of chemistry - not that it really counted for anything at the end of the day. I suppose I think that if theres an attraction there, then unless you're both very reserved, conversation tends to flow, whatever the topic.

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 02:53:52

<EiePie is @ Can't Sleep, Won't Sleep sad> Sex and OD! Sheesh, that's a humongous subject. Personally, I try to get to at least date 3 before doing 'the deed' if I really like someone. I know that sounds a bit contrived (and, of course, it doesn't always work!) and even go so far as not to carry out de-forestation of the legs etc to deter myself. For me, if I've got as far as date 3, I am a bit more certain about whether that elusive 'spark' is there. I've recently had two dates that were overly sexual on the first date. No. 1 was clearly pissed off that he didn't get past first base on the first date - and more or less said that he was looking for someone more 'tactile'. Really!? We were in a parked car, in a residential street with very bright street lights and....._and_.....people walking past the car! (Now I've written that, the word 'dogging' comes to mind....hmmmm?) It was a shame as we'd got on so well and I was thinking that it may have been the start of something. The second one (I've just seen he's winked at me again on Match! Sheesh!) was a little too 'hands on' but also (apart from the 'Octopus Syndrome') seemed to be a possibility. We'd had a really lovely meal in the Jamie Oliver restaurant, endless chat, eye contact etc). Fended him off sufficiently NOT to get arrested in Cambridge town centre and came home with hopeful thoughts. The message he sent me the next day, however, was full of the graphic details what he had enjoyed doing with me/to me the previous night! Well, sorry Mr Telecom, it was NOT me you were doing those things with! (I may have imbibed one or two lemon sherbets but I would have remembered THAT!). And so, cue my OD theme tune - "Another One Bites The Dust"!

Now off to chase that elusive thing that is sleep. Night all. x

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 06:28:53

Hi , welcome to the newbies/returners.
Bantam I have a problem too with you describing women as Easy, but not the Men involved. Sauce for the goose, eh? I don't 'put out' early on, but that is to protect myself emotionally, not becuase of some Victorian double-standard, and quite frankly would not be interested in a relationship with some knuckle-dragger who thought that way. You yourself have shagged on a first date you say. Were you Easy? You have fudged round the subsequent explanations. Also, date no 2/3 should have described herself as BBW? Sponge makes a good point. This means different things to different people. Were the photos representative? You have not answered this one either. We used to have a Man here a while ago. IIRC he tilted at windmills too...

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 06:36:50

Ok, now I've got that off my(reasonably abundant) chest...I'm going to have to set myself some rules for the OD stuff. I have considered the following, but any thoughts much appreciated, as tis all knew to me.

Only check in once per day. Give up when its getting depressing, and all you get for a while is bald men who say they have short hair who don't want women a few pounds overweight, or more than X age, or smokers etc...Don't have a problem with bald. Have a problem with lying about your hair status when you apparently value honesty from the women who might write to you.

Only have a few profiles on your Possibles at any one time

When someone has asked to see your photo, clearly been on line, and not responded X amount of time later, just write it off and delete from Possibles.

Or, put photo on public and be dammed? TIA

bantamrooster Tue 16-Oct-12 07:39:51

Sorry Parsley I didn't think I was fudging, my first comments were generalised about how I think some men see it, these are the same men who hoot at women out of car windows and send penis pictures online.

So yes, I've been 'easy' on a first date once, didn't feel particularly great about it later but there was a lot of chemistry - otherwise I wouldn't have DTD. Then she never responded to calls. And I thought the sex was actually quite good. These days being a bit older and wiser I'll limit the amount of booze on a first date so I don't end up in that situation again.

And the woman who was BBW had described herself as 'Curvy', only had headshot photos and they were several years old.

The question about to photo or not to photo - personally if someone doesn't have a picture on their profile I just skim right past it. And if someone hasn't bothered putting anything written in their profile I'll skim over those too. It's really annoying to get repeated winks from women with no pic and no description. How is someone supposed to get interested in someone who might as well be wearing a burqa and not saying anything about themselves. If someone can't be bothered to write a few lines about themselves, they're probably not taking the whole thing seriously and wouldn't be up for a date anyway.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 07:52:32

put photo out there smile and dont count any one as a possible, unless you have swapped a few messages.
Be aware that people lie/and / or stretch the truth.

bant- if they girl hasnt replied to your last few texts, shes not interested. move on.
your date number one is a common occurance, for both sides. noones fault.
your date number two - yeah, as sponge says, curvey is in the eye of the beholder. The adverage british woman is now a size 16.... so, she could have put that maybe? I go between a 12/16 and always have curvey down.
your date 3 -meh, neither of you liked each other. again, par or the course.
or, maybe she didnt fancy you at all, or thought you didnt look like your pics, or had less hair, or more weight than you said, or you smelt. so didnt engage at all, and hence was boring....... ( just another way to look at it)

Ive rarely had awkward silences in any date. And have certainly never found we have done all the talking about stuff online. Also, you said its all in the eyes. If, on a first date a guy was staring straight into my eyes id be rather un nerved frankly. A first date isnt really a date, its a meet to see if you want to go on a date. A woman isnt going to turn up and instantly fall in love with you, making doe eyes at you across the table, it just doesnt work like that. Unless of course there is lots of booze involved where she might shag you, because she likes you and fancies you, but then you wouldnt want her, what with her being easy.........

did you sleep pie?
i miss cambridge so much, used to live there smile i too do the leaving the legs unshaved if i want to avoid sex. However, this has led, once or twice, to drunked, manic shaving in loo as we have both got drunk and ive changed my mind....
smile

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 07:54:07

My photo is actually on Invitation. I do have a profile, but its obvious a lot of men don't read it. Nowt I can do about that...

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 07:55:00

So, you would say put photo on Public then? On the grounds that if I have it on invitation i must be a Munter?

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 07:56:20

That was a little blunt, but would that be your reading of it, as opposed to my reasoning that I was not making myself any more vulnerable than necessary.

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 07:58:40

Ha, morning Watch, missed your post, as I was mid-rant.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 08:06:18

parsley - in defence of bant, people do tend to assume, because there is always a reason for a hidden picuture. it tends to mean, married, long term relationship, or maybe not the best looking.
Your pictures are lovely. You are on a paid site, just put one up smile

I once replied to a message with no pic, we chatted a bit, got on great online. He wouldnt send a pic, but would be a friend on fb. So, out of curosity, i did. And it wasnt good, not at all. There was no way on the planet i could or would ever fancy him. He was 26 and looked 56. he knew this, tried to make a joke about having benjamin button disease. but no, he wasnt for me.
Or as i said, no pic because of being married.

bant - quite why you a gave the opion of men who toot horns and send cock shots, when, seeing as you say you arent one, then how would you actually know their thought process? AND, how on earth would you know these were the types of men we were chatting to, or dating. because they are not, types like that are avoided like the plague...............................

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 08:08:39

Ok, watch take your point...might make it public, for a trial run!

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 08:15:19

Morning (yawn!). Parsley I agree with Bantam (only in that...) if you don't have a readily available photo, you will tend to be by-passed. There are so many people on there that spending time requesting a photo is (IMHO) rarely done and, in addition, it does come across (wrongly or rightly) as a little suspicious. I'm always wary of men who have no photo and rarely answer comms from them. Having said that Mr PE Teacher didn't have a photo (as he was a teacher and didn't want pupils taking the p!) but sent a photo attached with his first message to me - an option?

Two nice messages from Mr Local last night so will send him my number and see how the phone chat goes.

Watch Did finally get back to sleep, thanks, but now have to get up for the school run. Am deadly tired sad

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 08:18:22

They had the option to request it though, and I have sent it on first ask, as long as they seemed normal,and had teeth...I have put profile to public, as an experiment.

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 08:30:16

Bant - agree with the others, if it's taking her more than 24 hours to respond to texts she just isn't that interested.

Yogagirl17 Tue 16-Oct-12 08:30:27

Pie - hugs, I hope you slept. I know how awful it is - suffered the worst insomnia for years and years. Funnily enough, now my marriage is over and i have no job I sleep like a baby. hmm (still no word on new job Btw)

Parsley - def put a picture up, I bet you will get some nice responses. smile

What about when first date isn't really a first date? I was away for 3 weeks when I first started chatting with Mr60 so by the time we actually met face to face we'd exchanged hundreds of emails, talked on the phone, knew so much about each other and the chemistry was just fizzing. There was very little alcohol involved and after 2 hours together we just couldn't keep our hands off each other - but it didn't feel like sex on a first date..? blush

NYBoy being too keen again...didn't reply to him for 2 days and got a message asking if I was ok and saying he missed hearing from me. Thing is, he hasn't asked me on a date or anything so do I bother to explain just want to be pen pals or just continue to reply casually?

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 08:35:24

western, i wouldnt worry about it, its still only been a few dates anyway, its not like you have to have had sex by date 6 or anything. and, its difficult his end too...... so, its not your fault. Just one of those things. Do you get childfree weekends? plan a date for then?

parsley - but they would have to had been interested enough to even ask in the first place.. which is quite a lot of effort for online dating for a first communication. esp when there are lots of smiling other women just a click away. And again, unlikey to ask as it is suspicious that there is no pic.

Well done for putting it up, just wait and see what happens smile

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 08:38:35

Watch this space! Yoga I do not have an FB relationship status. I suppose technically I am seperated until the Absolute, but no-one's business really, and if they want to know, they can find out without fb stalking...

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 08:38:45

Bant does have a point though unfortunately. It's one of my bug bears that women who have a lot of one night stands or have sex on the first date are perceived by a lot of folk as 'easy' or 'slag' whereas men do the same and they are just being male, don't you know? Whilst I don't agree with the theory at all, I still think it exists quite strongly.

Take for example...bloke has slept with 40-50 women. High five to him, good job. Woman has slept with 40-50 men...different story. Even on here when you see a thread where some women admit to having slept with a higher than average number of men, they add reasons or excuses to make it seem better. Shouldn't be that way but it is what it is unfortunately and annoys the hell out of me.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 08:46:22

yoga, a first date is always a first date. i once had a date with somone i had chatted to, online only, for 6 months. In my head we were in a relationship already - we met and i assumed that was just the start. Turns out, it wasnt. Turns out he had a bit of a history for doing that..... turns out, what i thought he was, he wasnt at all.
Online connection doesnt count, not really. Nothing counts till real life.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 08:54:02

fate - that is true. its nuts though, makes no sense. are women not supposed to want to have sex? do people not think women enjoy it? are they sill thinking we lie back and think of england? its just nuts.

why dont men see it as a compliment as in ' wow, she likes me that much, shes attracted to me that much' instead of, yeah, ill fuck her, but shes easy for letting me.
baffling.

bantamrooster Tue 16-Oct-12 09:10:25

snail okay as far as having an opinion on how some men act, the hooting lot etc, some of that comes from conversations I've had, or overheard between other men. And some of it comes from discussions I've had with women I was talking to on the dating site, how some men have been with them. There are a huge number of normal, reasonable, attractive men out there, and also there are some weirdos, but I think being behind the anonymity of a keyboard gives some men the perceived license to act like tossers - hence the knob pics, asking favorite sexual positions etc in a first email.

And Parsley I wouldn't assume someone without a photo is a munter. I wouldn't assume anything about them as it's likely I'll not bother looking at them at all. If I'm on Match, say, and I'm looking at a screen with a dozen or twenty pictures, some of women who are really very attractive, and some who aren't so much, and then there are the blank spaces with no photo, that's just a blank space on the screen.

There's no assumption of ugliness, there's just no assumption of anything. It's like if I was in a bar or something and there was a table of attractive women, I wouldn't be focusing on what the one who faced away from me looked like, if I can see half a dozen facing towards me who look nice. I'd focus on the ones I can see.

I just did a quick check online, there are 132 women in my age range, who live within 20 miles of me, who've been online in the last week. 109 of them have pictures. I'm going to concentrate on the ones I like the look of.

I don't do blanket emails or 'how are you..' short mails: I see someone who I might fancy in person, I contact them talking about something interesting they said in their profile. If I can't do that, I move on to the next profile with a photo.

The 'invitation only' thing I haven't used so can't say how I'd react to that.

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 09:16:09

Ok, Bantam, thanks. Trying it with public photo for a bit anyhoo.

hatesponge Tue 16-Oct-12 09:21:41

I have so many issues with this idea that 'nice' women don't shag on a first date, especially wrt my own situation, because (leaving aside from the fact it suggests it's not nice for a woman to want or enjoy sex) it implies that if I hadn't slept with any of the 5 men I have on a first date I'd have seen them again, if I'd seemed more of a challenge, when in fact I am about as certain as I can be that the outcome would have been exactly the same either way. The only difference would have been that I'd have gone 4 years without sex instead of (currently) a month.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 09:22:02

bantham - yeah. we have had those conversations as well. we arent all hidden away. we have had contact with men before smile Some men are knobbers, but you presented that as a general mens view, ( even though you are now calling those that behave like that as weirdos...) which isnt the case at all.

i dont quite understand why you would offer up the worst possible view as a general view, if you dont think that way... unless, of course, you do, but now realise the error in doing that?

bantamrooster Tue 16-Oct-12 09:37:16

watch - I don't know, after having conversations online with perfectly nice women who tell me their horror stories, or amusing tales of OD, I cringe at the way some men behave. And as I only get told the horror stories, as women who've met lovely men online don't tend to be talking to me on a dating site, maybe my view of other men is skewed. If I only get told about the tossers, I only remember the stories about the tossers.

I think what I was getting at originally, is that from my perspective, there is some truth to that old 'Chase' story. Yes I don't like the waiting for a reply to a text, on the edge of my seat, but I've read on one of these forums someone saying 'he called as soon as he got home from the date - how desperate is he!' - and other ones saying 'he called as soon as he got home. How sweet!' - One womans desperate is another woman's sweet. So I generally wouldn't call until the next day, so as not to come across as desperate, but still maintain the possibility of sweet.

And I was probably overgeneralising, yes, you're right. I think there are some cases where if you DTD on a first date, it can be wonderful and lead to lots of more dates and skipping through the daisies. And if you wait for a few more dates there'll be more of a connection. And the point I was making was that a guy who is perfectly nice, and would be a goer in the long term if there was more of a connection, may lose interest early on if everything happens on the first date. I know it's happened to me in the past, both on my part and the woman's part.

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 09:43:16

Watch - its just a very out dated concept from the time when women were mean to be virgins until marriage blah blah. Totally sexist and frankly a load of rubbish but a lot of people still think that way and don't see it changing any time soon.

In my case, I have the four kids who a year and a half ago went through the separation of their parents. I have decided I am not going to be getting involved in any serious relationships until they are much much older and maybe not even then. As I have said, I like my independence. However I certainly won't be celibate for the next ten years say. I like sex and will have sex if I want to do so. I am also capable of having sex without getting emotionally involved and I am sure there are plenty of women that can do the same. To some people that will probably make me 'easy' or 'promiscuous' or whatever term so applies. However a bloke doing the above is just sewing his oats and being plain male. Whatever. smile

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 09:51:04

In terms of OD and dating in general. I just don't get all the need to over think things. You meet someone, like them, then agonise over whether to text, phone etc...how will it be perceived? I'd far rather a bloke just acts how he wants to act than tries to behave in a different manner to be in with a supposed better chance.

It's like sex on the first date. There are many stories on mn of first date sex where ten years on they are still going strong. And stories of first date sex that never came to anything. Way i see it, there are no right or wrong ways about it. So if you want to have sex on the first date, do it. If it then doesn't work out, no big deal.

I think dating can be majorly over complicated by trying to do everything to some sort of rules as opposed to just...being yourself and doing what you want to do.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 09:54:46

bant - eh?/ so your view of men, despite being a man yourself, has come from women you have chatted to online dating?? what???!?!?!? that is the daftest thing ever. also, heres a tip, if you are asking women on dating sites if they have had much luck, or talking about past dates, its going to go down as well as a ton of bricks.....

fate, you do realise, now you have said that, that you will be married again before you know it!!! lol And theres nothing wrong with casual sex, if thats what you want to do, do it ;) i

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 09:57:44

fate - i totally agree with that. 100%
just be yourselfs, do what you want to do, there is no right way or wrong way.
I had a one night stand that ended in marriage. I had had one previously to that than ended in an engagement. Ive had some since that went knowhere....

If some guys contact me the same night and i dont like them, it will make me like them even less. BUT - if i liked them i will think hes sweet and liked me too.

You cant stick rules on this shit, you just cant, because, in the words of monthy python ' we are all individuals'
smile

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 09:59:25

(Thanks for the hug Yoga smile)

Quintessentially Tue 16-Oct-12 10:03:58

Morning all,

Another 'lurker' here, I've been reading your threads with interest for quite sometime as although not actively dating myself, a lot of my friends are and it's always interesting to compare others experiences. They're generally speaking, having much the same experiences as yourselves if truth be told so your posts have been most helpful.

Snape - The PM saga is quite fascinating, the notebook is also one of the most sincerest, heartfelt and thoughtful gestures I have ever heard of, I genuinely hope it all works out for you.

Sponge - I have a friend with a similar story to yours. In her case she is beautiful, intelligent, loving, caring, thoughtful and a kind soul. However, when it comes to finding a man, this may come across as out of my league, intimidating, waste of my time and there's not a hope for me being able to satisfy all of her needs. I think one of my favourite traits about her is that she is adaptable, I can just as easily take her to Royal Ascot as I could one of Ronald McDonald's establishments and she would quite easily adapt to her surroundings. As you are, she is an incredible woman and I'm sure she will find the right man soon, although I'm pretty sure it'll be when you and her least expect it...

I've also made the decision to 'de-lurk' as the response to a male's perspective was welcomed.

I promise not to speak for the whole of the male sex but quite happy to offer one mans own perspective, if you wish.

OhWesternWind Tue 16-Oct-12 10:04:35

Parsley - I think it's a good move to put a public photo up. I am always suspicious that people with no photo are married or in a relationship and I probably wouldn't bother making contact. There are so many people on these sites, like Bantam says that it's easy for people to move on to the next possibility. Also, a lot of people search for profiles with photos only, so you won't even be showing up on many people's searches, which does limit things a bit. Which site are you on btw?

Watch - I have the children 24/7 as their father has no contact, which does make life a bit difficult! Still, there will/must be ways round it even if it's going to involve a mad dash over to his and back again in time for the babysitter . . .

OhWesternWind Tue 16-Oct-12 10:06:46

Hi Quint and belated hello to Bantam I think it's great having some men on this thread - the more the merrier and welcome to you both.

bantamrooster Tue 16-Oct-12 10:09:38

snail - no, my view of how men act on online dating sites comes from what women on online dating sites have told me about how men act on online dating sites. And some of it from a friend in real life who has tried it and shared the cringeworthy stories. My view of men in the real world comes from watching them in the real world, chatting to mates etc.

So as an example, a few months ago I was sitting reading a book at a bar, at a hotel for work. And there were three blokes - repairmen or something, having a beer at the table next to me. And the older one was saying that his ex wouldn't let him see the kids, since he hit her that one time, so there was no way he was going to give her any money for them. Which horrified me, but the other two nodded along as if listening to sage wisdom. Then I was at the same place again a few weeks later, and heard the exact same conversation from two different blokes.

Fate - I agree, there's no one way to act. It would be nice if we could all be honest and open but the whole act of dating makes us all feel vulnerable, and try to put our best face forward. I don't lie on my profile to make out I'm something I'm not, and I'm honest about my situation, and chat openly about the stuff that we have in common - which to begin with, is online dating. That's one thing I have in common with someone else who is doing it too. Sometimes I think I understand why men have acted in a certain way, sometimes it baffles me.

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 10:10:03

Watch - it just seems daft to me, over analysing everything would drive me bonkers. If a guy is going to get a weirded out because I text him the next day after a date or sex whatever, then he's not the bloke for me. I wouldn't then go away thinking, oh shit, I did something wrong, I won't do that again in the future. I would still text another bloke if that's what I wanted to do.

What bothers me about dating is the way so many people seem to think they have to act in certain manners to be wanted. Like they aren't good enough just as they are in appearance and how they behave. I find that sad. Maybe I am arrogant but if I am I interested in a guy, he needs to be 'good enough' for me, not the other way around. All the trying to behave in supposed correct dating manners etc has got to be hard on the self esteem.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 10:13:26

western, oh, that makes things a lot more difficult. BUT, not impossible, you just need to get creative, or, like you say, a mad dash back to yours.... Your parents helped out before, didnt they, could you ask them again? or a sleepover at a friends with a promise to return the favour?

sponge - agreeed. If i had only had sex within relationships i would have gone 3 years with no shagging. Thats awful. i was 30 when i seperated from my husband, what a waste..... sex is fun, its free, it makes you feel good, it releases endorphines, it might work off the odd slab of cheese. Its what we are programmed to do... why the fuck would i deny myself that to please the ideals of some cavemen types. ridiclous smile

quint - hi smile and welcome. and, if you are brave enough, and seeing as its a hot topic..... what do you think of women who might shag on the first date?

DoingItForMyself Tue 16-Oct-12 10:17:44

I added a full length photo when I had arranged a date with someone on POF, saying "this is me, if you only like skinny girls, dont' waste your time on me". He replied "skinny is not high on my list of priorities, you look great"

I just wanted to make sure there was no room for disappointment. As it turned out he was shorter and bigger than I imagined, but as we hit it off, that didn't matter at all.

We ended up in bed on date 1 (not for the first time ever, as I am very easy wink ) and it hasn't put him off at all. In fact only last night during some very sexy texting he declared me awesome and said he is crazy about me.

The 'rules' and all this stick-tossing, thrill of the chase bollocks is all well and good, but if two adults connect with each other, then whether or not the woman wants to have sex, give head or do anything else, has no real bearing on whether she is long-term GF material. My bloke knows that if he wants more of the same, he stays with me - what sort of twat would decide not to see someone again because she wants to have sex with him?!?

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 10:18:32

fate - agreed. again. I now think that too smile but i think at the start i thought the other way..... ( as lots of people do)

bant - yeah, but they are knobbers, who, if they were in paper for having such opions, would be roasted!!!! thats not a general male view at all. Thats just a snippit of conversation from some pricks, frankly.

DoingItForMyself Tue 16-Oct-12 10:18:39

ooh and I have just bought my first ever pair of proper lady-like shoes for our weekend away at the end of the month and they are RED and shiny!!

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 10:20:19

what sort of twat would decide not to see someone again because she wants to have sex with him?!?

quite smile

Quintessentially Tue 16-Oct-12 10:20:32

Watch - Surely, in the modern world that we live in, if two consenting adults wish to have sex on their first date then that is entirely their choice, no?

Every situation is going to be different as well as every individual will be different as well, so there really is no right or wrong answer in my view.

Sometimes, you have to take the bull by the horns, if you are both willing and eager.

Sometimes, it's best to wait, maybe your attraction to eachother will grow over time and build up to it.

Would I think any less of a woman who had sex with me on the first date? Well, I'd be pretty hypocritical if I did, considering I would have taken part myself.

DoingItForMyself Tue 16-Oct-12 10:20:54

Fate agree too.

The day after we first slept together I sent him a message saying I was snuggled into his pillow because it smelled sexy.

He loved it. But he has since pointed out that other blokes may find that a bit weird! I said that if they did, they're not the man for me.

redhappy Tue 16-Oct-12 10:24:44

Wow you lot talk quickly!

Ok, hello bantam!
parsley yes to photo, it's the only way. Well done for putting it up!

I wouldn't think no photo=munter, just that the person was too awkward and shy. I've noticed when I'm reading men's profiles, if they show any embaraassment or say things like 'I never thought I'd be doing something like this' I go straight off them. It's wat everybody wants to say, but I think that confidence is what attraction is all about really. Somebody comfortable with themselves who just gets on with it will always be more appealing.

Also, it's worth remembering these men/women are just human after all, we all have our insecurities, even things we dislike about ourselves but are not ready to admit yet (eg. hairloss, weight gain).

My lovely friend took some pictures of me yesterday so I've got some recent ones to put up. She did a quick search, and searching for my town I was the first person on the list- eeeek!! The next person down was someone I've known for a loooong time and is incredibly beautiful. Not sure if I was reassured or disheartened to see her on there too.

What was the other thing?...oh yes, yogagirl when I was the dcs dad my fb said in a reltaionship, when we split I changed it to single. I met someone new and after 6months we changed to in a relationship (but didn't tag the person it was with), we split up a little while ago, and I just removed it but didn't put single, there's no information now. Nobody noticed or commented. He changed is to single and lots of people commented, which is what I was avoiding.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 10:25:20

hurrah quint - that is the correct answer. you win 10 pointssmile

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 10:30:11

Wouldn't life be so much easier if wore our intent in a placard round out necks!? Sex, whether it be first, third or 99th date, is fine as long as both parties are honest about the reasons for it - whether that's need, fun, lust or a huge attraction. Surely the problems only occur when people have differing (hidden) agendas.

On another subject..... Mr Local has imparted enough info that I could look him up on FB. Hmm, he's switched on enough to have restricted his page BUT.....we have 4 mutual friends! Eeek! And,as he has a local business, I now know where he lives. (Drive by, methinks!)

Hope you hear about the job today Yoga. Fingers crossed for you.

<Sends a bleary eyed wave to thread>

redhappy Tue 16-Oct-12 10:35:30

I'm never going to keep up with this thread smile hello to quint too!

Eipie yes to driveby! What do you actually think of him?

I've just subscribed to soulmates so I can reply to messages, I got 3! 2 of them from men I like the look of. One was just generally saying hello making conversation, the other gave me a lovely compliment and asked if I would like to meet for a drink sometime!

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 10:47:25

(Best laugh of my week so far - Ben (age 24!) likes the look of me and wants to meet! He's more than half my age! Oh, the joys of OD!)

Thanks Red looks good so far but you can never tell, until meeting in RL, can you.

hatesponge Tue 16-Oct-12 10:49:20

Quint thank you so much for that, it is some comfort to know I am not entirely alone in my situation (although Watch I know your experience in the past was like mine so you also get where I'm coming from) I'm quite good at fitting into my surroundings too, whilst I may naturally gravitate towards rough pubs and men I also love champagne bars, nice restaurants etc smile

And I agree, the right answer about sex on the first date is that there IS no right or wrong answer!

red well done re soulmates, 3 messages already is good going! I was on there (though never subscribed) and I don't think anyone under 50 even viewed my profile!

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 10:49:40

(Durrr... Less than half my age! Sleep deprivation!)

bantamrooster Tue 16-Oct-12 10:49:47

Okay a slightly unrelated topic, as Quint seems to have summed up the appropriate answer nicely (also my viewpoint, I should say, I just seem to have gone off on some tangent with dogs and sticks for some reason. I really shouldn't have had beer last night)

So, on OD sites, how many simultaneous email conversations do people generally have? Just one bloke/girl at a time? Keeping up with half a dozen? What's the general consensus?

DoingItForMyself Tue 16-Oct-12 10:51:13

They do move quickly Red, we're all living such exciting times that 40 pages are filled in the blink of an eye!

I recently changed my FB status to single from separated as I didn't want to be defined by 'not being with ex' any more but am not quite defined as 'in a relationship' yet either (although he did refer to me as his girlfriend for the first time last night!)

Also regarding meeting the DCs, I agree with what someone said on the previous thread about not making a big deal of it, treating it like any other friend. Not everyone you meet will be in your life forever and the DCs are adaptable and understand that better than anyone.

I'm not planning on having a stream of 'uncles' coming and going, but my DCs have heard me talk about my new man and know I am going away for a weekend with him (DS is a very nosy/switched on 12 y/o) so I thought it better that they meet him sooner rather than later to take away any 'mystery'. I have had male friends before, with whom we spent time as a family (without XH) so its not really different, other than a few lingering looks and a bit of subtle hand-holding.

DoingItForMyself Tue 16-Oct-12 10:54:07

I prefer to chat to one person at a time, meet them quickly and then decide if its a yes or no, before moving on. It does mean a bit of waiting around in between but I'm in no rush.

These principles have earned me praise and also saved me from getting confused about who's who, as my memory is shocking and I would undoubtedly get muddled up!

I realise some prefer a more scatter-gun approach, but that's what works for me.

hatesponge Tue 16-Oct-12 10:54:16

IME, at least half a dozen. Reason being that of 6 email exchanges you might start, at least 2 will peter out after a couple of messages, or take days to reply so proceed at a much slower pace, another will say something that makes you a bit hmm so you don't bother replying any more, the other 3 might then get to a stage of talking about meeting for a coffee or something, but probably only one will actually arrange anything. You often need to have that many ongoing to actually end up with one date which will then cancel at the last minute

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 10:57:28

Hi Bantam No more than 3 because my poor feeble brain can't cope with keeping up with more!! Seriously, if things get to 2 dates I tend to cease correspondence with other. The etiquette thing on OD is very complicated. Currently juggling two. x

Yogagirl17 Tue 16-Oct-12 10:58:45

Wow we are moving fast today!!!

Thanks red - think I will just leave FB status blank as no doubt people will comment if I change it and have always felt FB is not the place to discuss these things.

Welcome Quint!

Fate - agree!

Bantam - again, I have to maintain that if the relationship was meant to be, having sex on the first date wouldn't have changed that. If you went off them once the chase was up, the same thing would ultimately have happened it just would have taken longer.

redhappy Tue 16-Oct-12 11:01:53

A few of my married friends have left it blank too which I found interesting.

MirandaWest Tue 16-Oct-12 11:11:59

I think a lot of people aren't bothered about what their relationship status on fb says. Mine was sort of by default "married" when I was married but I can understand people not putting anything at all. I would be surprised by someone who was married putting "single" though.

I don't have many friends and not ones that would just come round, and the only male friend I have (apart from acquaintances at school who are DCs parents) is Mr Nice. So for me other people don't come round and so whenever Mr Nice came round to meet children would have been unusual if that makes sense. He checked last night he is not going to be introduced as an Uncle grin.

Have just been to the dentist. Have a numb lip and nose. Is a good thing I am not doing any kissing today...

Yogagirl17 Tue 16-Oct-12 11:17:46

Sponge I think we have well and truly established that "nice girls don't shag on the first date" is utter bollocks.

Red good luck with ! thats where I've had best luck in the past (tho u may find if ur still looking in a few months it's the same people and want to move on to a site with bigger membership)

So what to do about NYBoy? Tell him straight up I just see him as a pen pal? Keep replying and potentially "string him along" until he gets up the nerve to ask me a direct question? Block & run?

Yogagirl17 Tue 16-Oct-12 11:21:12

Sorry on my phone so harder to keep track

Parsley I only search for profiles with photos.

Pie - love it when I get interest from a 20-something, bless them wink (not that I ever respond)

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 11:42:17

Western I am on Match Affinity, which I think is different to Match.com. No winking!

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 11:43:33

oh - i agree with sponge - when i was online dating properly this year, id talk to six or more at a time. Some will peter out, some you wont get on with. some will ask you out then vanish, and maybe for every 6-8 you chat to, you might get one date.... and then there is always a high chance that date might not happen.

i havent online dated since may... when i realised i was going to dump puppy. i logged on to pof once for a quick nose...and messaged the pirate, chatted to him on there for 3 or so days, and then we went to texts. Ive checked ( because im a girl) and hes not been online since we moved to texts, so im assuming he was only talking to me smile

pie - yes, stakeout. with binoculars smile i went 10 years younger once. The sex was good, but i could have never have actually dated him....

yoga - are you really not interested? if not, just tell him, or block and run.

OhWesternWind Tue 16-Oct-12 11:48:22

Parsley I don't know that site but I'd think about putting a profile up on a free site/sites as well maybe. I've had hugely different experiences with the same photos/profile on different sites.

I have been guilty of having a lot of conversations on the go at the same time. Ive not been on PoF since last week and think I'm going to delete my profile. Do you think I should message the guys I was chatting with and say? There were some nice blokes, quite a few had asked me out and I feel a bit bad just disappearing.

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 11:53:43

western, yeah, if you had got to the asking out stage and you quite liked them, yes. its a nice thing to do. Have you had the exclusive chat with the optician yet then? are you going exclusive without having slept with him? Is he taking his profile off too?

and yeah, parsley - go with some free sites too, there is nothing to losesmile

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 11:54:31

Western For your own peace of mind, message them and say you are having a break and wish them all 'Good luck'!

OhWesternWind Tue 16-Oct-12 12:01:38

He's taken his profile down already, and i know he's not seeing anyone else. Haven't had a chat with him about it and hes not asked me to take my profile down but it's got to the stage where I wouldn't feel right seeing other people. Actually, i haven't been out with anyone else since I started seeing him as that's not really my style. God, I feel so old-fashioned sometimes ...

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 12:03:27

if hes taken his down already - then go for it smile

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 12:28:15

Who wants to be a 'nice! girl anyways...doesn't sound particularly exciting! grin

MsCellophane Tue 16-Oct-12 13:03:38

MArking my place on the new thread

Just catching up a little...

No photos and I don't respond, so I think even a small, distant one is better than none

Western, I would send a generic message and say you are having a break, I personally dislike it when someone disappears with no reason

And EASY! No such thing as easy. Sex has no bearing on the type of person you are. Sex has no bearing on being called again after. If someone wants to see you again, they will. Sorry but the rules are codswallop and are all about gameplaying

MadameOvary Tue 16-Oct-12 13:40:26

Cant believe how fast this thread is going. Hoping I can jump on without getting dizzy grin
Hello and welcome to all the newbies. smile
Things are going well with Science Boy (who is not a boy at all, but he just looks so much younger than his real age I couldn't resist)
Date 5 is on Fri, date 6 hopefully on Sun if he's free.
Just a quick post, have to go out with DD now.
Hoping I dont have another 200 posts to wade through on my return!

Yogagirl17 Tue 16-Oct-12 13:56:38

Ok, so totally on a side note - having too much free time on my hands and being slightly obsessed with everything tattoo at the moment I've been watching all the "Ink" shows on DMAX. Why is it that in the London version they show people wincing, saying "ouch", generally admitting that it hurts. In the LA & Miami versions everyone smiles. All the time. What I can't figure out is whether this is because the Americans do something different (like numb the area somehow..?) or whether its just because American producers have decide that people admitting that tattoos hurt isn't good telly?

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 14:11:03

Different strokes for different folks yoga smile I have two tattoos then had a name added to the first. First tattoo wasn't sore, second wasn't sore despite three recolours. The name adding had a tear or two, hurt like hell and bled too!

Yogagirl17 Tue 16-Oct-12 14:22:37

Hi Fate - no, I get that but this is totally 100% consistent across these shows - the Americans NEVER so much as wince, whereas the London one they even showed Ronan Keating having a wee 'moment'! grin So figuring they must be editing it out of the US versions...? (Sorry, I know this is totally random and not dating related)

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 14:26:33

drugs? gas and air?
pressure from being on tv?
does it matter smile

madame - sounds really good smile

lubeybooby Tue 16-Oct-12 14:30:36

Hello new thread

Why am I cleaning the bathroom when I have a few hours off? hmm

Decided to 'let everything soak' for a bit while I MN instead grin

Where is Time? (as in TimeForMeAndDD)

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 14:33:43

hmmm - throwing a question out there...

every time we have met the pirate has brought sometihng just for me. First date was my birthday present, second date he just paid for everything..... which was quite a lot. Last date not only did he bring booze and food, but also brought me chocolates.
All very nice, and actually first time someone has done this for me. Should i get him something?? is that really wrong/ awkward... i dont know what to get him... or should i bake him something? ( he does like cake...)

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 14:34:39

time is having a break from mn at the momment, hope she doesnt mind me telling you that. she is good though, spoke to her the other week.
smile

MirandaWest Tue 16-Oct-12 14:43:02

I think baking a cake would be a nice thing to do smile

Is this the fastest moving dating thread ever? Less than 24 hours old and over 200 messages already shock

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 14:44:56

Do you want to get him something watch or just feel like you should? Is time okay?

lubeybooby Tue 16-Oct-12 15:00:50

Cake sounds good to me Watch!

Thanks for the Time update btw.

My only update is that BC is still in the states and will be til Thurs. Then seeing him over the weekend and some of the week after.

I'm looking forward to hopefully finding out once and for all which job he's going for and when, it's really annoying it all being a bit in limbo.

I still don't know what will happen with us when he goes, but if he plumps for the USA that will make it a bit easier with regard to potentially nipping over and seeing him sometimes, ditto with him coming back here sometimes. So it's possibly not DOOM for us. I think HK might be though if he goes for that one! That would be decidedly more difficult.

As an aside... any London folk know anywhere good to eat near Waterloo?

snapespeare Tue 16-Oct-12 15:09:41

i think americans are more likely to use EMLA numbing cream - or be super-thick skinned.. grin

waterloo - there's a great cheap thai cafe on Lower marsh and a nice curry shop opposite the fire station pub at the waterloo east exit. smile

Yogagirl17 Tue 16-Oct-12 15:12:32

Thanks snape, that's what I was wondering. smile

Cake sounds good watch, I like chocolate. Oh...sorry, you meant for the pirate. blush

lubeybooby Tue 16-Oct-12 15:12:39

Thank you snape grin

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 15:16:11

hmmm. i could make him some kind of oozey, gooey, mess of a chocolate cake, but then i might want to lick it off him, and thats not going to help the not sleeping with him yet....

maybe ill do it in a few more dates, should we get that far.

lubey - so, he will know for sure shortley then, thats good smile

FateLovesTheFearless Tue 16-Oct-12 15:48:37

Wants oozey gooey chocolate cake now sad please make me one watch. But you can't lick it off my body unfortunately! grin

lubeybooby Tue 16-Oct-12 15:49:18

watch yes I believe so. We'll be talking about it when he gets back

smoothieooo Tue 16-Oct-12 15:50:39

Lurking and reading with fascination.

I started a dating profile on the Times Encounters site before panicking and deleting it. Probably means I'm not quite ready grin

For future reference, I have been noting all the various OD sites in my moleskin notebook!!

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 17:11:25

I really should know better than to watch slushy, romantic, crappy afternoon films when I'm feeling a tad lonesome sad

smoothieooo Tue 16-Oct-12 17:21:31

Yes EiePie... I avoided 'Love Actually' last night for that very reason!!

I think I could quite get into horror films actually - as I told my DS2 'there's nothing more scary than real life'! grin

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 17:32:40

I wouldn't mind but it really is a crap film Smoothie (called Honeymoon For One). I should be doing something much more productive - it's my night 'off'! but I'll still end up thinking "Where's mine!?" I'm such a tit sometimes! <soft sob!>

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 18:05:08

Oh, all OK now. Special Agent Gibbs, NCIS, has cheered me up! smile

UnbridledPositivity Tue 16-Oct-12 19:03:50

So I sent pof guy that link to my professional profile and made a joke about how if I didn't hear from him again it would be because he'd be intimidated by my professional credentials (he made a joke about checking out my credentials in his message), suggested an alternative day to meet, and ... it's been 24 hours and he hasn't replied. Aaaah, this is agony. I can't believe you all go through this with several guys, you must have nerves of steel. What are the chances he will reply? Is it worth sending a quick message just to check if he still wants to meet? confused

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 19:14:19

I'd wait until tomorrow, it's possible there's a legitimate reason, and possibly a quick, light-hearted text tomorrow. It's not looking all that positive though, sorry. As for nerves of steel, it's more like battle-worn. ;)

OhWesternWind Tue 16-Oct-12 19:19:55

positivity my best advice is to get a few blokes on the go messaging, then if one of them disappears or if you decide you don't like him, you've got back-up. Sorry if that sounds cynical but it worked for me! And don't invest too much in it before you meet - treat it as a bit of fun and don't get emotionally involved.

UnbridledPositivity Tue 16-Oct-12 19:32:20

I know, it's stupid to be emotionally involved at this stage. It's just that I first found him on GSM, then pof, and then his Facebook profile, so as ridiculous as it sounds, I feel like I 'know' him better than other potential dates, and he seems like a really interesting guy. Plus he is just the right level of fitness not to be out of my league but still attractive. grin
He's been 'online' for most of the day on pof - is it possible he just left his computer signed in while he went to work? What about the pof app, does that make you look signed in even when you're not actively using it at that moment? I'm such a novice blush

OhWesternWind Tue 16-Oct-12 19:37:41

Yes, I think you can show up as online even if you're not actively on the site if you leave it running on another tab or something.

Hope he gets in touch!

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 19:42:27

Positivity, I'm afraid Unbridled is right, you really can't afford to invest too much emotion until you meet. Due to work, travel and other stuff, I had to be content a with text, e-mail and phone 'relationship' with a guy off Match. We were sooo compatible and chatted for 3 and 4 hours at a time on the phone. He looked really nice too. I had high hopes (I was a novice too). When we met, there was zero 'spark' on my part but, unfortunately, not on his part. I had already got involved in his life (knew his brother was ill, his Mum was moving house, his son was trying for Uni etc) that it was really difficult to extract myself from his life. I felt really bad and hurt him (he wasn't very gentlemanly about it) so am much more careful now. As for on-line on POF - I often have a peek in the morning and don't log out so it looks like I'm 'shopping' all day!

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 20:06:42

yep - everyone kind of makes the same mistake when they first start out online dating, but you will quickly learn that nothing counts till real life.

UnbridledPositivity Tue 16-Oct-12 20:12:14

Thanks for the advice everyone! One thing I've been wondering is whether men who do online dating for quite a while (like this guy) start to dehumanise women eventually, like people who watch a lot of porn. I wonder if they kind of get used to the idea of 'shopping' for women online and picking the ones who tick most of their boxes and dismissing the ones who don't. Any views? (I admit I've become sensitised to this by what happened with my ex.)

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 20:17:24

Unbridled I think you may have a point...Pie are you going to have a date withe VillageBoy then?

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 20:22:05

Unbridled Your mission, should you choose to accept it is......bloody difficult! IMHO there are serial daters on OD but there are also good guys too, the trick is working out which is which. The only way I've found is to (as has been said before) find several guys you like and, if they get back to you, seem right when they e-mail, organise a date. I think you get an instinct as to whether they are just time wasters when you meet them in RL. I think, unfortunately, all OD'ers have a certain amount of box-ticking going on. There are so many people on there that it's inevitably. For instance, I'm 5'6in so discount anyone the same height or shorter than me. If I met someone in a pub, at the bar, say, and got chatting and there was the ever elusive 'spark', it wouldn't matter that he was the same height. We have to have some sort of criteria or we would be on there ALL day! Never was the saying "You have to kiss a lot of frogs" been more relevant! Make sense?

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 20:22:50

unbridled, course. thats the nature of online dating, women tend to do the same. and essentially why wouldnt you pick the ones that tick the most boxes?

anything from your new profile parsley?

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 20:24:17

Hey Parsley He's supposed to be phoning me tonight so we'll see how that goes. His Dad lives just a few doors away from me! Eeeek and double eeeek! x

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 20:27:23

Eye ha! Watch have had two views, one is from someone who had already asked for my photo earlier, but was in no hurry to look at it, and looked at it yesterday, but didn't message me...

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 20:33:12

with the sunflower pic?

watchoutforthatsnail Tue 16-Oct-12 20:33:49

pie, good luck!!!
let us know

hatesponge Tue 16-Oct-12 20:42:10

Unbridled I think some men who have been OD for a long time are either on there for the sake of being on there if that makes sense, or else are seeking some wholly unrealistic vision of perfection, either way they are not in effect seeking a relationship.

I'm so cynical about the whole thing after 4 years I find it hard to believe there are any decent men online, I honestly haven't met one. Despite which I was told again today I really should give OD another try - but given that I'm sure I'll be equally as unsuccessful as every other time I'm really not that inclined to do so...

UnbridledPositivity Tue 16-Oct-12 21:19:57

Hmm, he has been on pof for 3 years... (found a forum post by him stating this). Still no reply! He seemed up for coffee before even seeing my picture, and I'm not hideously unattractive (IMO!). Think I'll have to play the field a bit more just so I stop taking this so seriously. blush

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 21:22:14

Sponge have you tried speed-dating? Isn't any near me...

hatesponge Tue 16-Oct-12 21:34:45

Unbridled I think you have to not put all yr eggs in one basket. And being on POF for 3 years I wouldn't say is a good sign.

Parsley I've not done speed dating, I've thought about it but most events seem to be on weeknights which I can't do, and/or in central London (which I can get to, but am a bit lazy about doing so...). I did once go to a singles event which was horrific, def won't be trying that again!

hatesponge Tue 16-Oct-12 21:41:58

I should probably qualify the thing about POF...yes I've been OD for 4 years, so might sound like double standard on my part, BUT for me it's been very much on & off, lots of different profiles and sites in that time. Men however (esp the ones who are just after one-off sex here & there) seem to leave themselves on POF year in year out. Hence the no I see whose age is 37 (which it turns out is correct) but in their profile it says they're 34 or 35...cos that's how long they've been on there...

ParsleyTheLioness Tue 16-Oct-12 21:42:55

Why horrific? Then I can avoid...

EiePie Tue 16-Oct-12 21:45:58

Had hour + long chat with Mr Local. Went well, no fireworks but good. Offered a date for next Tuesday (my night 'off') but he wants to meet earlier - 'whenever I want'! - as well as Tuesday night! Who the f* knows!

mercury7 Tue 16-Oct-12 21:48:21

same here, I've used dating sites on and off for the past 6 or 7 years but in that time I've had lots of different profiles on different sites, and tend to update my profile pictures a few times a month.

I've seen men who've had the same profile and same pics for 3 years or more

hatesponge Tue 16-Oct-12 22:01:17

Parsley it may have just been that it was a London event - Most of the men there were younger than me, none were remotely attractive and none spoke to me (though that was no great loss due to the above!)

Eie well he sounds keen! Can you meet him before Tues, even if just for a quick coffee or something?

Was just looking for local speed dating (none) and found there is a roller disco near me on a Friday - I really am too old to go aren't I? Always fancied myself gliding round on rollerskates grin <ignores fact has no balance and would be falling all over the place>

UnbridledPositivity Tue 16-Oct-12 22:54:13

Well, he does frequently change his pictures and tweak his profile, so seems quite 'proactive'. Will see if I hear from him tomorrow, and if not, perhaps send a message tomorrow evening.

Always been intrigued by speed dating!

Yogagirl17 Tue 16-Oct-12 23:57:57

Well I took myself to the cinema and I was very good company - not much chatting but I did buy myself an ice cream. I wonder if I'll text tomorrow to say I had a good time. hmm

KirstyWirsty Wed 17-Oct-12 00:05:27

Yoga I love going to the cinema by myself .. Glad you enjoyed yourself x

ike1 Wed 17-Oct-12 00:05:31

Just wanted to interject here, Yoga, and say that as a single person i LOVE going to the cinema alone! I probably go once a week. If you have a spare evening no kids/date its a fine source of entertainment ..and you dont have to wait around for someone to agree to come with you! I usually have a japanese meal on my own beforehand too with a large glass of plum wine-its my treat. Anyhow as you were....

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 00:08:54

I like going to the cinema on my own too. And i was a cheap date - only £3.75!

KirstyWirsty Wed 17-Oct-12 00:20:57

Where was the cinema less than 4 quid???

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 00:23:03

Odeon cinemas are £5 on a Tuesday but 25% off if you have an Odeon card.

KirstyWirsty Wed 17-Oct-12 00:23:45

That's a good tip .. Thanks yoga x

ParsleyTheLioness Wed 17-Oct-12 07:32:11

Yoga. Ha! Sponge, you should go to the roller disco! What's the worst that can happen. Where I live, they set up a winter ice rink by a lake, and you book time slots. The best time to go is dusk, as it is open on the lake side, and very lovely in a surreal way, to go skating past the lake!

ParsleyTheLioness Wed 17-Oct-12 07:33:16

Morning all WW by the way, didn't realise I was first on! Tis very sad, and implies I have no RL...

EiePie Wed 17-Oct-12 08:02:50

Morning everyone! <Waves at thread>

Spooky coincidence: Chatting to MrLocal last night on the phone, it seems he was in my best friend's house, upstairs (doing electrical repair stuff) whilst I was downstairs with BF having coffee before we went out for lunch. So, I've heard him but just missed actually seeing him! Very spooky! Parsley sometimes it's nicer on here than RL! x

ParsleyTheLioness Wed 17-Oct-12 08:22:24

Raises brew to Eye and agrees.

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 09:01:25

pie- how weird is that!!! sounds like you are quite looking forward to the date smile

4th date later, feel a bit nervous about it really, not sure why.

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 09:11:37

Morning all. Pie that is weird! Watch, why nervous? What are you doing for your date?

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 09:21:49

Hello everyone <waves>

Blimey this has moved fast... I blinked - serves me right I suppose!

Watch, good luck for later, I think nerves are good, if you're both nervous it means it matters and you want it to be good.

I had a really nice date with Hendrix last night, went to a wine bar and had dinner and I'm meeting his son on Friday - we spent hours talking and being very silly and I'm all smiley and stupid-feeling now, in a nice teenagerish sort of way - neither of us have grown up at all!

yoga I love the tattoo - I've never thought I was a tatt person, but now I'm wondering if a new me is about to emerge ...

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 09:30:20

hes just coming round. Ive got a babysitter for the weekend and am also seeing him then, tonights just a mid week pop over, dont want to wait a week to see each other type thing.
I dont know why i feel nervous

rask - how long have you been seeing hendrix? good luck for the meet smile

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 09:35:29

rask - never thought I was a tat person either wink

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 10:02:37

I've been thinking about the 'easy' question. Of course its all rubbish, but there are lots of people (IME long term marrieds in particular, and I'm thinking of a number of close friends especially) who still think that you might wait a while/long time before you sleep with someone. This may have applied to them when they met their partner and at the time, women were described as easy because they didn't wait.

So that line of thinking still exists among men and women and will continue until these people either think carefully about the implications or find themselves in that situation.

They will also be communicating this message to children, family, friends etc. I had a conversation with a close friend recently about OD trials and tribulations and she looked very perturbed about me meeting men who wanted sex early on ... she described it as 'sleeping around' - I didn't go any deeper into it, but I'm sure that view is not unusual.

Mind you, that raises the question of the sexual habits of teenagers - am I being hypocritical in thinking that they need a different message?

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 10:06:35

Hi watch - got chatting on OKC end of August - met in a pub, first impression was not my usual 'type' and I think I'm not his either, but I gave him a kiss (on the cheek) on leaving and he was surprised and pleased. I think we've both been fairly slow to get started but now I need holding back - dammit! what happened to the cool, calm exterior??

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 10:14:12

rask - that makes sense, i was reading an article last night on it that advocated waiting 6-8 months. But suggested maybe oral and hand jobs for the man, to keep him sexually happy.
WTAF!

that is actually crazy. So, then man is allowed sexual pleasure, but the woman not, so she stays ' nice' the womans sexual needs are not important? what happens six months down the line you finally do it and find its rubbish and you arent sexually compatiable?

my dd isnt a teenager, im not going to tell her nice girls wait. im going to tell her to do what she wants, what shes comftable with, so long as she stays safe.

sounds nice, sounds like its going well with him smile

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 10:30:33

Watch - was that a 1950's Woman's Own article you were reading?

It concerns me that a large proportion of the female population are being judged by remainder because they are in the fortunate (hmm) position of not being single. (All said tongue in cheek of course) - but if women can't get the message straight amongst themselves, then how can we expect men to think differently.

There are bundles of threads on MN about moving on after separation/divorce etc and just to add to these women's difficulties, some of them (older possibly?) are having to cope with the fact that they may be judged by their peers as being easy? Without wishing to simplify things too much, they're the ones often needing more affection and kindness because of the crap they're dealing with.

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 10:33:11

I think, for me, it would feel like "sleeping around" or being "easy" or whatever else you want to call it if I was meeting one man after another and sleeping with all of them, whether it was on date 1 or date 6. It would feel different if I was doing it to try and make the man happy and not because I really wanted to or if I was doing it with men I didn't really like other than for the sex. Lots of things that would make it feel sleazy for me other than what number date it is. So in 6-8 months I've talked to dozens of men online, actually met 7 in person and only gone on to have sex with 2 of them - but those 2, one of them I slept with on the first date and one of the second. Saw both for a while after that. Don't regret or feel bad about it in any way. It felt right, I was careful and safe about it, it was fun(!) & was what I wanted.

As the mother of a pre-teen, when she's a bit older, I think the message may be slightly different though. The problem with teenagers is that they aren't properly grown up yet. They may be old enough to be having sex but they aren't going to be as safe and careful, both about their bodies and about their emotions. Teenagers, by nature, take risks. They don't have the experience to know when a man is fucking with them (teenagers have notoriously bad twat radars!) or using them. They don't have the experience to understand there can be a difference between sex with someone you fancy and sex with someone you love. I could go on...

So when my kids are say 16-20ish (hopefully not younger!!!), I really, really hope they will NOT sleep with someone they've only just met. I don't know - does that make me a hypocrite?

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 10:34:09

Oh, and yes, I agree watch - that article is just fucked up!

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 10:38:04

no, it was online, cant find it now, was linked from askmen website i think, so recent...ish.....

you are right about women being bad about that. There was a posted on here a while ago who used to chastice me constantly for sleeping with every date, and sleeping around. I wasnt, i think i slept with 4 or something over the course of the year. Thats 4 shags in total over a year. ( cant remember exact figures) it was a tiny amount of sex. Bearing in mind i also hd 20+ dates that year i also wasnt anywhere near sleeping with them all. But she wouldnt have it.
Its sad.
Its just another stick to beat women with really.
I dont really understand the mentality that an adult woman should have to go without affection, physical touch etc... things that humans have, things that married people take for granted, yet a single woman is meant to be on her own for years, so shes not easy?
Finding a new partner isnt easy, ive been on my own for years, im not the only one either. to go for years without even a hug of affection, from a man, is awful.

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 10:57:26

In 5 years of being separated/single, I've met about 20 men, 10 of those I or they didn't want to meet again; 2 two-night stands and 2 lasted 2/3 months, 2 a bit longer. Being very blunt, I absolutely wouldn't change any of those experiences for a moment - one guy I spent 4/5 month with was just what I needed at the time - very flirtatious, complimentary and spoilt me rotten - I felt a million dollars after being with him. Sadly the sex was disappointing and I was ready to move on. Other, later, dates were more adventurous (!) and, again, made me feel my life wasn't over because my marriage had ended.

I must admit I'm finding it a bit difficult with my 3 teens, knowing what the message needs to be. For me, I'm happy to be out looking for a happy relationship, good company etc, not necessarily a life-long commitment, but for my kids I want them to consider the risks and possibilities that come with a sexual relationship - the fact that an unwanted pregnancy could mean a life-long link to a casual sexual partner and that really what they want is a long term relationship where, if pg occurred, it wouldn't be such a difficulty.

Not sure if I'm making myself clear here, or talking rubbish confused

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 11:02:30

to go for years without even a hug of affection, from a man, is awful.

Watch, I'm so with you there, on a recent weekend away with 3 married gfs, I said that what I missed the most was the hugs (although they're a very distant memory, even when I was married sad). They all went quiet - maybe that's when I should have shared some titbits wink.

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 11:11:51

teens must be very difficult. I supose you have to hope you have taught them about safe sex, and given them the emotional education that they can make wise choices.... and that they can talk to you at any point.
i have no idea really..... dd is little.

OhWesternWind Wed 17-Oct-12 11:11:53

Watch that is absolutely barking! So it's naice to give someone a blow job but not to shag them? Eh???

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 11:12:09

We are our own worst enemies sometimes - who needs men to make us feel bad when other women can do it just as well. We all need different things at different times in our life and I think that people who have been married for a long time don't necessarily understand some of those needs - to know that your life isn't over just because your marriage is, to crave affection and touch sometimes even more than than an actual relationship.

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 11:12:25

I hate the way women are judged over this issue.

I have slept with less men than the majority of women I know. Yet I suspect the fact that the last 5 of mine have all been one-offs (albeit over an almost 4 year period) means a lot of narrow minded people would call me easy.

But the reality of my life, and my OD experience, is that I've never had a second date. I'd have liked to see 3 of those 5 again (if I'm honest I knew 2 of them were one-offs, but the others I was hopeful of) but it didn't happen. And if I hadn't done anything, if I'd waited til the 2nd, or 22nd date or whatever, then I'd still be waiting now, years and years later.

Not an appealing prospect. And again, the people who judge me are ones who are lucky enough to go from one LTR to another, with barely a gap in between, or have a FWB to turn to. They have no concept of how it feels to be on your own without even a hug month after month year after year. Maybe if they did they would be less judgmental.

mercury7 Wed 17-Oct-12 11:19:08

I'm sure my kids will learn by trial & error same as I did...I tell my daughter to look after number one and never let a man get in her way.
I hope they both have enjoyable sex lives with as many partners as they want (I dont especially want to know the details though confused )

I think the idea that a woman is easy for wanting sex is laughably anachronisticgrin

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 11:26:21

We are our own worst enemies, yoga, as if things aren't hard enough anyway.

It takes a lot of strength, iron-will and self esteem to carry on, doesn't it? I've been tempted on one or two occasions to go for someone who I knew wasn't right, just because they were keen, available and it would mean I was part of a couple. BAD NEWS.

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 11:30:36

It is mercury, but peer pressure is such a strong force, it affects us throughout our lives, and in this respect, it really does hold us back.

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 11:33:57

sponge - me too. until i divorced i had slept with 3 men. I was 30. It jumped rather a lot since then, but its still only just over double figures. And, i seperated 4 years ago this dec. So adverages out at something like 2.1 men a year for 4 years. hardly a lot, considering all of them, bar two, were one offs.
so, that works out as one snog/ hug/ shag, every six months. thats hardly making me easy - i cant see how it does, its a nun like existance!!!!!!!!

sponge - agree, if married people knew what it was like, maybe they wouldnt be so judgemental. ( sweeping generalisation, but they do seem the worse offenders of this)

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 11:40:44

Ermm, my total's a bit higher - I didn't get married til I was 31 blush, H 5 years younger, so smiles all round wink

mercury7 Wed 17-Oct-12 11:50:39

raskguess it depends if you care what other people think of you...I dont care.

I dont think there is anything inherently wrong with being promiscuous/having alot of casual sexual partners.
If thats what you like doing and thats what works for you

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 12:02:26

mercury yes, I do care what people think about me - isn't it in our nature to want to be liked? Besides I don't think I'd have got to where I am now without close, supportive friends - the only issue is that I can't discuss intimate details with them.

lubeybooby Wed 17-Oct-12 12:05:25

I thought being judged for being 'easy' was something that ceased being a problem once you are say, nineteen or twenty or so and through the bitchy teenager stage!

If anyone has had anything to say about me since then or since I left the exh at 27 I've been oblivious to it and nor do I care.

Does anyone here still ask men or get asked how many partners they have had? Because that strikes me as a very immature/teen thing too. I haven't asked or been asked since before I was married (1999 or so as a late teen)

It's just a total non problem, even a non thing as far as I'm concerned.

I've done my share of one nighters and first date shagging in my time, and thoroughly enjoyed myself too. Though in the end I decided I didn't like it all that much and it wasn't as fulfilling, and that I prefer to have a bit of build up and connection with someone before going for it. Replace the build up and the flirting that is lost with OD first date sex, compared to real life meeting say at work or whatever and taking a while to even get to the point of even having a date.

But... I do have needs and if I happened to have any urgent needs during the early, non exclusive period of dating someone then that's where a handy FWB would come in. I don't even remember if I ever actually did that, but I remeber thinking that's what I would do if I felt a massive urge but was only on date 1, 2 or 3 with someone.

All that however is my choice and any adult woman is welcome to feel different or do things differently. I'd never judge. And I don't care if I'm judged for my thing about FWB's and general inability to go without sex longer than four weeks. Everyone's different and it's impossible to have hard and fast rules, and as a few people have mentioned it does seem to make very little difference anyway

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 12:15:43

I don't even get to go for the ones I know aren't right - even unsuitable relationships elude me!

Watch I think people who move easily from one relationship to another really have no idea of what it can be like when that doesn't happen, and you're utterly on your own for ages. They don't have one-offs because they don't need to.

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:16:33

rask - it is nice having some friends I can discuss intimate details with! I have some very close married friends but also a number of good friends who are separated/divorced/whatever and that helps.

mercury (and lubey) - see, now I don't think I'm personally comfortable having lots of casual sexual partners but I would never judge someone else for it unless I thought they were being careless, risky, just doing it to get revenge on an ex, posting all their exploits on FB or whatever...I do get a bit judgy about people who post lots of personal stuff on FB, oh and about people who cheat - I get more than a bit judgy about that! Is that ok?

mercury7 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:20:19

* isn't it in our nature to want to be liked?*
thats part of a long and complex discussion about whether there is such a thing as human nature, and if so how can it be described.
AKA 'the nature nurture debate'..it's been raging for centuries and the jury is still out.

I really dont care what people think of me, it isnt of any consequence and no one knows enough about me to have an informed opinion

mercury7 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:23:18

people who post lots of personal stuff on FB
spilling your guts looks immature and unsophisticated to me but if thats what they want to do I dont care

people who cheat
again, I dont care...it's none of my business, just be discrete

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 12:25:30

My friends SAY they don't judge. But they have either never done one-nighters at all, or not since their early 20s. Because they haven't needed to, because a new relationship has always come along within weeks of one ending. Which means they don't really get why I'm in the position I am...or why I end up having the odd one-nighter.

MsCellophane Wed 17-Oct-12 12:29:34

I'm what many would call easy - I call it comfortable with myself and my sexuality. I have had more sexual encounters than most and I don't regret a single moment.

I have had to bring up 4 ankle biters on my own for last 13 years, they are now 22-17. I have always been open with sexual things but I haven't disclosed my 'number', they have no clue about my easiness, if they ask I won't lie though

My eldest was taken in by evangelical christians from 14-18 and she would spout about waiting for marriage and I fundamentally disagree with that stance (I'm also an athiest) So, I had to be quite blunt with her about sexuality to get through to her. As she was the first I had to deal with, the others got the same lessons. Sexuality is nothing to be ashamed of, sex is nothing to be ashamed of, if you want to - you need to think - how will I feel after, am I doing this just for me or to make boy/girl happy, am I confident enough to insist on condoms, can I speak out if I don't like something/like something. If you can answer yes, then go for it for have fun

I don't believe sex is something that needs to be special, it's a thing we do that makes us feel good and should have no bearings on whether we are good or bad

Luckily, the christians lost my eldest once she went to Uni and the last two years there, she had more fun.

All of mine are confident in their love lives so far and none of them are terribly bothered with having bf/gf which I'm quite happy with. They all seem to have a good grasp on healthy relationships and sex lives and are all very open with me and each other so so far my strategy is working

I can happily live without a live in man but I couldn't live without having sex and all that comes with it

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 12:30:02

lubey - i think adults do still think that - as evidenced by bant further up thread.
And peoples friends and things.

i dont much care what people think, but interestingly i havent told people of all my exploits...... maybe its in fear of being judged?

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 12:30:51

TBH I can't be bothered with fb, its more directed towards and popular with teens AFAIAA, I can't imagine who'd be interested in the minutae of my life anyway, I'm not interested in theirs.

Yoga yes, I get very judgy about cheaters, probably down to personal experience, all the marrieds who are OD get short shrift from me, however honest they're being online, I can't believe there isn't huge amounts of selfishness and hurt going on.

mercury7 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:31:28

spongeare you saying the one-nighter is a bad thing in and of itself..if so why?
Or is is the problem related to wanting it to be more than a one nighter because you liked the person

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 12:32:12

applaudes mrsc - very healthy attitude ;)
im the same. id hope dd to be the same too.

mercury7 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:34:05

rask but surely cheating is part of human nature?
It happens in all cultures and throughout human history!

Indeed, we evolved such complex brains in response to the advantages of keeping track of these complex social interactions

lubeybooby Wed 17-Oct-12 12:34:27

I've (thankfully) never seen anyone put anything TMI or boasty or just too personal on FB and I never would either. I haven't even updated my relationship status on there yet and I'm still not sure if/when I will.

Actually my 18yo neice has put a couple of quentionably personal updates on there but definitely not me or any of my friends. Thank god.

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:34:29

Hmm, see I'd be lying if I didn't admit there are some things i do judge others on. We all do - it's just a question of where we draw the line and what our own personal values are I guess.

For me, cheating is morally wrong, it doesn't happen by accident, it's a conscious choice someone makes knowing, in advance, their actions are going to hurt another. So however discreet, I would judge someone for cheating. I couldn't just shrug my shoulders and say, each to his own.

mercury7 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:36:14

applause for MrsC from me toogrin

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 12:40:01

mercury I am judged (though they say they dont) by people for sleeping with men I never see more than once. The judging happens all the time in RL and it's happened on here too.

If I had a choice I wouldn't have them - I would far rather be having sex in a relationship or a FWB arrangement than endless (not always satisfying) one-offs. That's my personal preference and unfortunately as I never meet men interested in me beyond one encounter not something I have the choice of. My only choice is between a one-off or no sex at all, ever. And so occasionally I chose the former.

But the fact I would like a relationship/FWB is simply my preference. I see nothing inherently wrong with one-nighters at all.

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:45:07

Ooh, that went fast since my last post. lubey - i have peers my own age who put overly personal stuff on FB all the time and find it very hmm.

mercury - I think we've had this conversation before on other threads. Just because something is part of human nature doesn't make it right. Murder, rape and genocide also occurs in all cultures throughout history. Like rask says, the amount of selfishness, hurt, lying, manipulation etc that inevitably goes with cheating makes it pretty clear for me. It's also about responsibility. My experience is that most cheaters refuse to take responsibilty for their actions - they say it was "an accident". They say someone else forced them into it. They say they were trapped and had no choice. But that's all bullshit designed to make the cheater feel better. I've yet to meet or hear of a cheater who has actually said, "Yes, I knew exactly what I was doing. I knew I was lying, being selfish, hurting someone who loved me...and I am ok with that. THAT is my problem with cheating.

whereas with sex/ONS whatever - lots of people can honestly say, "yes, I knew what I was doing, it felt good, and I'm ok with it."

So as far as I'm concerned there is a huge difference.

lubeybooby Wed 17-Oct-12 12:45:46

I find what I used to get judged on if anyone knew vaguely what I'd been up to was first date sex in my house. From the internet stranger danger aspect.

But I say bollocks to that - it's no different to one nighters picking someone up in a bar, something plenty of women have done.

My exh I met on a phone dating thing before the internet took off. I invited him over to mine and we shagged within about an hour or so. This was years back obviously and my friends at the time were really shocked at what I did.... then proceeded to go out and get pissed and continue to take randoms home with them. I didn't and still don't see any difference in the danger levels

EiePie Wed 17-Oct-12 12:52:02

(Thanks Sponge yep, thinking of meeting for coffee on Friday. Had another nice e-mail from him this morning, saying how nice it was to chat)

This thread is pretty fast and furious today! Just a quick question. Hugs were mentioned earlier and how they were missed, and a great deal of talk about sex (of varying time scales). I love the hugs from my children, they are beautiful, innocent and pure but........it's not the same as getting a hug from a partner - those are (in the right relationship) supportive, protective, sympathetic, empathetic,binding, intimate, sexy! My question is: Which could you do without easier sex or hugs. For me, it has to be hugs. smile

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 12:52:43

i agree with yoga re cheating.

mercury7 Wed 17-Oct-12 12:53:48

Just because something is part of human nature doesn't make it right thanks I am fully conversant with the 'you cant get an ought from an is' argumentsmile
I was being facetious..I had earlier questioned the existance of any kind of essential human nature wink

We could equally debate the deeper issue of free will, ie is there such a thing...

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 12:57:39

pie - i could do without hugs easier. im not paticullary a huggy person. unless its with my dd.

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 13:00:07

Ok, moving on then...

Lets talk about hugs instead of cheating. Love, love, love hugs from my kids. They give the most awesome hugs. I hope my 9 year old boy remembers to still hug others when he's 19 and 29 and 49. smile

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 13:01:59

I could probably do without hugs easier, I do hug the children a lot though it's not the same of course. But the thought of a future without hugs or sex is a pretty depressing one.

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 13:03:23

Deep...

Eie has to be hugs, not many huggy men in my environs, but my bro has cultivated a great hug (I think following some serious marriage issues of his own sad).

One guy I met OD ages ago asked at the end of the evening if we could just hug for a while, so we stood in the car park outside his flat and hugged for quite a long time in the peace and quiet - he was big and the hug was fab! smile. Didn't see him again.

EiePie Wed 17-Oct-12 13:04:35

I'm with you on that one Yoga I'm aware that these children will one day have partners and I'm hoping they can be more responsive than their Dad. For whatever reason, he never manage to dish the hugs when they were most needed - just tried to find a solution to whatever the problem was at the time. All I wanted was a hug (and even asking didn't work!?) My children give tear inducing hugs sometimes - I try to hold back - mostly works!! x

EiePie Wed 17-Oct-12 13:07:35

Rask Don't go on, you'll set me off!! I think my x had probs with his Mother/Son relationship and his Father/Son relationship was non-existent.. Hugs to everyone! x

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 13:09:27

Ah Eie, lovely ...

My XH was brought up in a household where men shook hands, so my kids GF used to try to shake hands when my boys were tiny. I made it clear that hugs and kisses were on the agenda, no excuses, and several years later he was pleased as punch when my eldest met him on the seafront (with a mate in tow) and gave him a bear hug in front of all and sundry. They're great huggers, my lot, the DS1 (20) has no qualms about giving me a hug hello or goodbye at the station. otherwise there'd be trouble

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 13:10:40

The Evil Ex and I used to hug lots. Even when our relationship was at its worst that was one of the few things that remained.

I must be at a low ebb as in view of that he almost looks appealing in comparison to the men I've met OD...

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 13:10:50

yes, hugs to all x

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 13:15:11

sponge a lovely huggy guy could be waiting just around the next corner, chin up, keep going x

KirstyWirsty Wed 17-Oct-12 13:15:38

When I went out on my dates with Mr cheeky I was gagging for it but it just didn't seem right to sleep with him (the fact that neither of us have our own place is a contributing factor) and I have had quite a few unsatisfactory one night stands so just didn't want to go there ..however I may have ONS again just not just now

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 13:16:14

Hugs all round ((((xxx))))

I'm such a tactile person. I love sex but even more than actual sex I just love touching. I remember Mr60 commented on that - probably cause I couldn't keep my hands off him, but it wasn't all sexual, I just love touching and being touched. XH only ever touched me as a prelude to sex. And Pie - he was also of the 'always have to find a solution' variety. And if you didn't think his solution was the best, smartest thing ever he went off in a sulk.

EiePie Wed 17-Oct-12 13:16:57

Yes Sponge keep the faith - and in the meantime, there's always us! x

EiePie Wed 17-Oct-12 13:20:37

Hey Yoga I've very tactile too - strangely for similar reasons to my ex but I've translated it into having/giving more hugs! I think the problem/solution thing is a very male attribute. Venus and Mars comes to mind! (X)

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 13:22:11

I'm getting used to the touching now, XH used to maintain his personal space nearly all the time... However Hendrix is very touchy, hand on waist/arm/shoulder when he passes me etc. I'm learning to do it back too.

EiePie Wed 17-Oct-12 13:27:34

I've noticed that if I really like someone on a date, I often touch their arm to emphasise a point or link arms with them across a road etc - it's my 'Yeah! I fancy him' barometer! And will often give a big hug before departing. Yum! Love all that touchy stuff when it's the right person rask!

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 13:32:32

Whenever we get out of the car or walk anywhere, his hand's always out waiting for mine ... so not used to it ... (FGS woman, slaps face ...)

EiePie Wed 17-Oct-12 13:34:51

Awww Rask that's lovely!! Sounds like a 'keeper'. smile

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 13:44:48

Raks - lovely and am not at all jealous smile

Sponge - big hugs to you too, you sound a bit down again. When do you start your new job?

losingtrust Wed 17-Oct-12 13:46:11

Hi been a lurker on here for a while. In my 40s and divorced but new to OK. Had a couple of dates so far (one twice) but no spark. Get lots of hugs from my DCs, Dad and family (from a very kissy huggy family). Interestingly Ex only gave hugs that were prelude to sex and never held hands despite me trying to explain that sometimes it was nice to just hug!

Anyway been watching with interest about the sex on first date being 'easy'. Do you know what I don't really care. Have only ever done it once and moved in with the guy straight away and lasted a year so on the whole it worked and always that side of the relationship was much better than anything else. Having said that choice of two ODs at the moment. One has lots in common and we may get on really well. The other very attractive and I would say is looking for sex and amazingly number 2 is quite appealing (assuming of course the photo does justice and he is not a complete narc). He knows it's not a promise but the little comments are actually quite getting me more inclined to. Maybe it is more to do with my state at the moment, enjoying being single but missing a physical relationship with a man. No strings or a full-blown relationship with all the complications thereof. Am I strange or anyone else ever felt the same?

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 13:55:36

Hi trust, welcome
Absolutely not strange at all, its lovely to be flirted with and if (like me) its been a while, how could you not be thinking ahead?
All I would say is, wait until you've met in RL, don't commit, just meet up for a coffee and see how you feel. If you fancy him and you want to, then go for it, you might think you want to wait a while, he might be nothing like his photo - but the beauty is that you can wait and decide on the spur of the moment if you want to DTD - how exciting!

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 13:56:39

losingtrust - nope, you arent the only one. Its only this year that ive actually wanted a full blown relationship, until then, something on a casual basis was something i was more interested in.
You know, for all the fun bits, but none of the crap smile

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 14:21:06

yoga I am a bit sad at the moment, I always am if I spend anything more than the briefest amount of time thinking about my utter inability to interest a man beyond one evening. Or if I contemplate my current options which are:

1. Try OD again, or singles evenings, or speed dating, or just go to the pub or whatever. Get rejection after rejection, and feel sad and unhappy,
2. Not OD, give up on the idea of ever meeting anyone, ever being touched or hugged or kissed again, and feel sad and unhappy.

Not really much to look forward to either way tbh.

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 14:24:10

Forgot to add, job start date is tbc, so at the moment no idea. Possibly sometime next month. Hoping they might let me know in due course...any good news re your job yet? (fingers still crossed for you!)

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 15:11:19

Hi Sponge, I'm sorry you're feeling down atm, it is crap when you keep trying and getting nowhere. Do you socialise otherwise, have interests that get you out meeting people? I forced myself to go to meetups on my own for a while, walking groups, running club, horse riding (the list goes on ..) and whilst that didn't result in any dates, it got me feeling a lot better about myself generally - I was fitter and felt more able to cope with things and I made lots of friends. Sometimes just feeling better in yourself rubs off onto others IYKWIM?

ParsleyTheLioness Wed 17-Oct-12 15:22:09

Hi Trust. Right, hugs and physical contact. It's over a year since Pigface was shown the door. In that year, I've never been touched by a man. A couple of weeks ago, a bloke who owns a local shop I go in a lot gave me some change for the dryer at the launderette (annual quilt wash) and cupped my hands so it didn't spill out. It was really weird, that it was the first time I had been touched, and I had missed it. I get hugs from dd, but I'm afraid I miss the Menz, even if I don't always like them...

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 15:34:00

rask thanks, it is the relentless rejection I find (at times) overwhelming. I do go out a lot at weekends. I don't have interests as such, but juggling working FT, the house, and DC doesn't leave me much time. And if I'm honest I'd rather go to the pub with friends when I have spare time than do anything involving exercise.

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 15:38:33

right - im logging off, got parents evening and then need to sort dinner, dd, and house before pirate comes over.
still a bit nervous, still dont know why.
shall probably report back later as it wont be a late night.
i have not shaved my legs!

losingtrust Wed 17-Oct-12 16:00:17

Thanks all. Men need to understand it is not just them that have the need for a physical relationship. Liked your comment Parsley! It made me laugh.
Hate I joined a social organsiation called Spice that gives you the chance to take you out of your comfort zone and meet new people. All of my friends are married so difficult to understand and nice to get out more. It may take your mind off. I did it to stop being fixated on being alone and it did help. I did chinese food tasting, pottery painting and am going to an allnight Halloween party in half-term when kids away. It may help.{smile}

losingtrust Wed 17-Oct-12 16:01:38

Still need to work out those smileys!

ParsleyTheLioness Wed 17-Oct-12 16:15:20

Thanks Losing sometimes I think I'm talking to myself...comes of working alone, or with a cat!

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 16:26:08

watch hope you have a nice evening with the pirate smile

losing tbh I'm not really sure thats my kind of thing. Plus I'm lucky in that I do have lots of friends to go out and do things with already. That only works as a temporary distraction though, and the more time goes on the harder it is not to dwell on what a complete disaster the last 4 years have been. And to worry the next 4 and beyond will be much the same.

OhWesternWind Wed 17-Oct-12 16:41:41

Watch have a lovely evening, don't do anything I wouldn't . . .

NicholasTeakozy Wed 17-Oct-12 17:24:56

Holy Jeff, only just caught up! This has moved quickly. Still catching me breath. grin

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 17:50:20

Glad you were all pre-emptively hugging, because I found out today that work won't pay my rent, so I will either be on the street or queuing at a soup kitchen within the next month. DS1 has missed another day of school and I am absolutely at my wits end. Ds2 is a bit whiny/bitchy but is still my darling love and DD just phoned to say boots has a soap and glory foot buffer that I've been aft for ages, so she has just bought me it. I can soldier on with the shitty things, although I am stressed to the gills and coming home to someone for a shag hug would be great, but when people are nice I feel a bit teary.

Need to go to the gym. Haven't seen PM since Saturday, but I might cry.

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 18:13:40

goodness snape - what do they expect you to do?

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 18:15:13

Oh Snape that's rubbish about the job - I hope you come up with some practical solutions ... I can completely understand re people being nice, especially kids eh? They manage to pull just the right strings so you stop just short of chucking yourself off the nearest ledge. Something will come up, I'm sure, work-wise. Have you got plans to see PM soon?

Watch I'm probably too late, but have a lovely time this eve, be good (what am I saying??), have fun and tell us all about it...

MadameOvary Wed 17-Oct-12 18:20:41

Watch have a great evening with the sexy Pirate smile
Rask your man sounds lovely!
losingtrust I get what you mean, although I am not in that space now, possibly because after an abusive relationship I want companionship, trust and emotional connection over sex.
As I wrote on last thread, I had a persistent potential FWB that had messaged me from OKC, but he couldn't offer anything more so I didn't see the point of meeting. His refusal to take no for an answer made me think I was doing the right thing. It was never an option. We chatted on Skype and it just confirmed what I knew, that he was a player and not what I needed at all.
I've done the FWB thing in my 20s and early 30's and it was all ultimately unsatisfying because what I really wanted was a relationship, not just ego gratification.
I think if I'd been happy in other areas of my life though, FWB would have suited quite well. I can't do ONS, never could, only had one and it was distinctly hmm I wouldn't judge anyone's else choices tho.

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 18:24:59

They expect me to either move back to Scotland, where I can afford to live without expenses from work (but it will cost them more in flights, childcare, hotels etc) but where they don't have a job for me, or be homeless as I can't afford to live in London.

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 18:26:08

Oh watch. Have a lovely evening! I'm really pleased about the pirate. smile

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 18:31:22

Hi Madame - yes, he is!

I met a guy earlier this year who I got on very well with, sadly he didn't tell me that all he wanted was FWB, I thought there was more to it, but he didn't tell me, just stopped contact. Funnily enough, he got in touch again recently (no response, of course), but it was a shame he wasn't up front about it, I might have considered FWB as we seemed to get on so well. There again, I'm not sure I wouldn't get too attached.

UnbridledPositivity Wed 17-Oct-12 18:32:50

I like the idea of a FWB kind of arrangement, but I think I wouldn't be able to handle my emotions afterwards. confused So I think a relationship might be safer for me.

Pof guy has messaged to say he will be busy with one of his (very sporty) hobbies at the time I suggested, and asked about meeting up next week. What is the etiquette? I'm rubbish with any suspense at all, so would probably be inclined to suggest a fixed day & time already. Would that look over-eager? What's the best thing to do to ensure he really will meet up with me AND I don't seem overly fussy about time/unavailable/complicated /secretive? And when should I reply?

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 18:40:17

Hey sponge - how about option 3. Not OD, focus on your friends, making yourself happy, go dancing, eat lots of cheese (or M&Ms in my case) and maybe the universe will send some good karma your way when you least expect it...? No word on my job yet - recruiter says she is still trying to pin them down but still hopeful

(but on a related note, just had a message from Mr60 asking me about the job...first time he's initiated a conversation in a long time..?)

Oh snape that sucks. I'm trying not to panic about what will happen financially if I don't get this job cause I will be totally screwed and don't have a plan b Hope the gym (and PM) help you feel better.

watch relax. enjoy. (& lol at whoever it was earlier that said about shaving legs in the loo after a last minute change of plans!)

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 18:51:20

That was me that said that.. ..smile

There will be no sex. Dd is upstairs. Not happning.

Snape. Neither are options sad

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 18:53:25

Hi Unbridled

If I were you I'd leave it a while (since he did) and then reply in a cheery fashion that its ok and suggest a day and approximate time next week. I'd also drop in that I have a few other things to organise for next week but it would be lovely to meet up ...

TBH I don't put up with more than 1 cancellation unless there's a VERY valid reason, random illness etc doesn't do it. I don't have the patience to keep waiting indefinitely - if they're not keen enough, then move along.

(Tough guy stance)

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 19:00:51

LOL watch - am sure you will still manage a bit of snogging (and hugging!). smile

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 19:05:10

There will be lots of snogging smile

UnbridledPositivity Wed 17-Oct-12 19:05:25

Haha raskolnikov, I'll bear that in mind. I generally have a tendency to be over-eager, and I'm trying to learn how to change that. Waiting several days to reply though - really?! I'm rubbish at game playing. I am genuinely quite busy at the moment though, so I hope he'll be able to make one of my random times work.

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 19:12:38

it would be nice to think if I did nothing then it might all work out. But I tried that for 2 years and fuck all happpened. It never does whatever I do or don't do. Whatever everyone else has that men like I don't have it. Not one man in 4 years thinks I am worth anything, certainly not more than a few hours of their time. So maybe they're right and I'm wrong. Maybe I should give in to the unanimous view and realise I'm wasting my time expecting any outcome other than the 2nd option.

Yogagirl17 Wed 17-Oct-12 19:25:41

Oh sponge that's hard. I guess it's easy for me to sit here and say things like, just because nothing has worked out yet doesn't mean it won't or it's more important that you know you're worth something regarldess of what a bunch of stupid men think...but I'm not in your shoes & I don't know how you feel. Hang in there. xx

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 19:42:02
PurpleWolfe Wed 17-Oct-12 19:45:30

Snape Am sending you a massive hug (((((xxx))))) Hope things pick up really soon.

PurpleWolfe Wed 17-Oct-12 19:47:14

Sponge Massive hug too ((((xxx)))) - I know your pain. x

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 19:54:28

bugger, pressed send too soon. the above is what tracey cox says on the subject.... in the daily fail today, surprisingly......... smile

just waiting for pirate to turn up, hes due at 8...

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 19:56:05

I really dont think I can hang in, not any more.

After a few months of being single, everyone told me to be patient, I'd meet someone.

After 3 years, the same thing. Coupled with why dont you try OD again?

And over a year later, I'm still in the same position. Nothing has changed. One date, and that's all I ever get.

And in another year, another 5 years, people will still be saying the same, oh I'm sure you'll get a second date EVENTUALLY. And so on. But no-one really believes its possible, it's just what people say.

I am in a bit of a bubble of my own despair at present and will disappear to be miserable in my own space rather than dragging the thread down any more, but just to add before I do Snape I'm so sorry re work situ. Is there ANY chance to appeal it? any work-related grant or anything you could apply for? Union involvement? Its not my area of law but might be worth seeking advice - you may well have legal cover on house ins for example, just to double check theres no legal way of forcing your employers to cover costs, or at least part thereof.

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 19:58:29

sponge, how about one last go, whats my single friend like in your area? could we all chip in and do a profile for you?

PurpleWolfe Wed 17-Oct-12 20:01:30

Oh, PurpleWolfe - previously EiePie Not sure what's happened there?

Quintessentially Wed 17-Oct-12 20:38:00

I'd date you Sponge. smile, well, If I wasn't so pre-occupied with numerous other things that get in the way of me finding a partner.

Good luck with the date Watch.

My friend who has a similar situation to Sponge is also feeling pretty low about it this week so I've promised to take her out Friday, might even be her 'Wingman' and see if we get anywhere.

Should be fun.

ParsleyTheLioness Wed 17-Oct-12 20:45:09

Watch what is My single friend then?

Wallison Wed 17-Oct-12 20:57:30

Hello. I am pretty new to Mumsnet and extremely new to this thread but ... I am DATING. With a MAN. Can I join you?

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 21:14:42

Hello Wallison and welcome

So tell us about this man you've found - does he have brothers/sisters who are available too grin. Where did you find him etc etc??

Wallison Wed 17-Oct-12 21:32:42

Thank you raskolnikov! I found him on the internet and he has a sister but she's married. He is very nice (tho' a bit toooo keen) but I am very unsure of myself due to not having dated anyone for more than eight years. In fact, who am I kidding, I've hardly 'dated' as such at all in my whole life - when I was younger it was more 'shag someone I met at a party and then either see them again or not'. smile

Scattylatte Wed 17-Oct-12 21:35:05

Snape. I'm not sure what to say but is there a way to claw in some money to pay that rent? I'm not sure how but could you use everyone around you to buy you some time? I'm sorry this is happening to you and your family.

I don't have much of an opinion about one night stands. I've had a couple and I felt empowered for a day or two then I forgot about them.

Sponge, what about an introduction agency?

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 21:56:01

So how long have you been seeing him Wallis? And 'too keen' can be quite good, it does good things for the ego and levels of self-confidence, as long as it doesn't disappear in a puff of smoke at the first hurdle!

That's a good idea Latte, I thought about it briefly myself but decided they might be £££. Worth a look tho - what do you think Sponge? Has anyone tried them?

Wallison Wed 17-Oct-12 22:04:25

I've been seeing him for (counts....) eek, about a month now. And yes I know I'm being mean about my 'too keen' comment - years ago, a very good friend took me to task for being, in her words, the kind of woman who runs around after guys who treat her like shit, and treats the nice guys like shit herself. Must stop that. It's just that he texts me, like, all the frigging time. See, I told you I was mean.

Am now feeling nervous because at some point (if we carry on seeing each other) we'll have to Do It and I am not the woman that I was last time I did anything like that, and also I've got a kid and the house is a state and etc etc etc. Also, I feel like I'm being disloyal to my ex (this is completely irrational).

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 22:09:13

Thank you for all good wishes. smile

sponge I will be appealing the arse off of this. The so-called manager doesn't have my 25-year strong grasp of our HR policy. She is factually incorrect and has made the decision by committee, rather than make it herself. That has involved very personal information being seen by other members of her team, which is a precarious position. So the process and therefore the decision is flawed. My trade union is on it and I'll be utilising their legal advice as soon as possible. I am not to be fucked with, but it is so, so tiring and so, so stressful on top of the stupid unrequited love and non-school-going DS1. (Sigh)

And as to PM, was meant to meet him at the gym and he didn't sodding well turn up, despite knowing what the score is with work. He better have a pretty damn good excuse, but at the moment he can go to hell with his Stetson and white mice and shove the stupid notebook where the sun doesn't shine. (This is stress talking)

Wallison Wed 17-Oct-12 22:12:57

snapespeare I don't really know what's going on with you but I hope you get things sorted or if not then sue them and get lots of money and go and retire on a Caribbean island.

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 22:29:33

Hello wallison. <waves>. It's all very tedious to recount, so I won't bore you, but quite a bit of it alludes to lone parents being able to afford to work in the south east without resorting to prostitution or marrying a (premier league) footballer. [grump]

PM has texted an apology, so my stress related ire has abated for an hour or so. Don't worry, it will return, probably when I run out of a room full of champagne sodden lesbians in floods of tears.

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 22:29:46

Wallis - yes, if you carrying on seeing him, I imagine you will Do It. However, remind yourself that men age as much as (if not more noticeably on occasion than) women do and that you'll both be so enthusiastic that worries like that will evaporate. I hadn't dated for about 20 years when I started OD and if your guy's as nice as you say he is, he'll be busy making you feel wonderful so you won't have time to think about it!

Snape why's your DS1 not going to school? Is it a big step up from last year?

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 22:33:18

Also, don't forget Wallis that after the event, you'll be doing the "I'll have what she's having" walk, so you'll be chatted up and propositioned by all and sundry - its a win-win ! grin

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 22:36:15

He's borderline ASD, doesn't fit in and is at odds with a couple of children. School very supportive, am sure it will work out....but trying to get out to work in the morning with all the homelessness nonsense is exacerbating it.

raskolnikov Wed 17-Oct-12 22:47:40

((snape)) - you've got a lot on your plate, haven't you? I'm trying to think which of those things should take priority and they're all right up there! Have you got anyone in RL who can help with any of the practical things you've got to do, somehow give you some space to think and plan a strategy?

Hopefully the PM situation will sort itself out soon too.

fayster Wed 17-Oct-12 22:57:00

Good evening, everyone!

Watch, how's it going with the pirate?

Go Snape! Let 'em have it. Managers who don't know their job irritate the hell out of me. Especially as they're usually the ones who expect their extra pound of flesh from their team.

Wallis, sounds like you're enjoying the excitement of the build up....

Sorry you're feeling low at the moment, Sponge. Out of interest, do you have many male friends? Could you ask them for their opinion of why you might not be getting second dates?

Parsley, My Single Friend is a dating site where your friend writes your profile for you. It was set up by Sarah Beeney, I think. I have no idea how successful it is, I'd be interested to know how it compares with other paid sites.

Is there a difference between sex on the first date and a ONS? Obviously, if there's a second date, it stops being a ONS, and there are occasions where people sleep together knowing they won't again, but that must leave a fair number of situations not in either camp?

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 22:57:31

snape glad you have the union on side, and it sounds like you have a good case to argue. Ridiculously stressful meanwhile of course. But good you have PM back in touch as well. Can he speak to DS1 for you given what you've said about PM being like DS1 as a teen?

Introduction agencies... £1000s to get rejected just the same as I do normally, only it costs me a fortune too. Scatty I know you were trying to help, but that idea just makes me feel more like a freak than I already do. Everyone else gets dates/relationships in the normal way, but not me. I don't want to be the only person who has to get into debt to find one man who wants to see me more than once. Honestly what is it that makes me so different, so weird, so repellent to all men that that's what I have to do? sad

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:04:43

bugger, feel a bit crap with a dating update now.
Snape- know its exhausting to fight, as you know i lost my job/nearly lost my house/ had to fight like fuck for 2 months, but it came right in the end, not without pretty much sleepless nights for that entire time and a fuck ton of stress. You will sort it because you are resilliant as fuck smile i know its just shit having to be resilliant as fuck by yourself all the time thoough.

Pirate has just gone home ( was never going to be a late one) Said he NEEDS to see me sat smile i am frustrated as hell. Dry humping with still no boob action. jesus. Dont quite know how much longer i can keep it up for. I just need him naked.

bantamrooster Wed 17-Oct-12 23:05:26

Hi sponge,

sorry you're feeling negative. If it's any consolation at all, if you were the only one getting rejected or not finding something fulfilling, there wouldn't be 25000 or so messages about online dating on MN - all of us have the same problems otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it so much

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 23:08:21

grin at watch. It's not an abstinence competition you know. Your tits won't fall off if you wet-hump him. Go to it.

Oh I am exhausted with it all... The alternative is quitting though. We're not quitters.

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 23:10:51

sponge. Yes, will ask PM if he might spend some time with DS1.... It's kinda like Stephen frys letter to a 16 year old himself.

I will win. All of this, it's just that the journey is a battle that I always fight alone. Ahh well.

OhWesternWind Wed 17-Oct-12 23:19:53

Snape thinking about you and sending you hugs even though this is MN.

Have spent the evening sending filthy texts to the optician about what we are going to do to each other on Saturday. It/he needs to be done and done good and proper. (You can tell I'm feeling a bit frustrated can't you!). Just need to sort out babysitter but I think my usual two might have a weekend job. Where can I find another one pdq? My mums away at weekend so can't even ask her!

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 23:22:20

fayster, not really, the only real male friend I have thinks I'm amazing, and assumes the only reason I am single is because I want to be, and that I am rejecting men all the time. he'd be astonished if I told him men never want a 2nd date with me.

bantam, you misunderstand me. it's not that (like most people on the thread) I get a few dates that maybe go nowhere, a short term fling here or there etc etc. I only EVER get one date. Not 2 or 3 or 7. Maybe to you that may not seem like much of a distinction but it is to me.

Watch, glad all is going well with Pirate smile

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:24:46

no, you arent a quitter. You cant be really, not when you are a lone parent. because its down to you, so we all know you will sort it, you know you will sort it one way or another..... you will. But i do understand the feeling of not having the engery to keep fighting. tis pants.
sorry sad

And when you win, which you will do, the victory will be soley yours. and yours alone. And that counts for lots.

I know its not. I dont think he wants to yet.... im basing this on the lack of boob action. you cant miss my boobs, how has he not touched them, even through a top!! i have a sheer jumper on, vest top underneath. I was straddled his lap, took my jumper off in front of his face.. and still no boob touching. gah. i may burst. This is also now,officially the longest i have gone EVER from meeting someone to sleeping with them. IN MY WHOLE LIFE. ( obviously not random people, but people im dating)

on the less frustrating side hes asked me to one of his gigs in afew weeks time and we, yes, WE! have a dinner invited round his friends once ive finished my training for my new job and have a bit more free time.

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 23:29:20

Maybe he's just not into boobs. confused

Has there been any (cough) foof action?!

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:30:02

sponge - have you looked at my single friend?
your first date thing is weird. you know i had the same problem. 2 second dates in the whole of last years dating. and then, 3 second dates ( one which ended there) one which turned into the puppy and now the pirate. But thats in3 whole years of dating.... and lots of dates. My luck wasnt any better than yours. I think im just so ruddy minded that i wasnt going to leave it.
There is notihng wrong with you, you know that. i think just the wrong men, not matched to you.I know that young boy was too young to date, but you said you enjoyed his company, beingmore intelectual. could you not try a more high brow site? just as an experiment?

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:32:38

no. no foof action.
slight bum action.

grrrrrr.

i have no bum. but excellent boobs. thats the wrong way round. I was temped to grab his hand and make him grab them, but thought that might be slightly predatory, and im not sure if that might make him run a mile.....

i dont know if hes just being polite and nice and not racing, which is fine...
or
is going to be rubbish in bed. which is not fine and will be a case of him walking the plank......

( hahaha)

bantamrooster Wed 17-Oct-12 23:36:43

I'm sorry. Please don't shout at me. But I couldn't help laughing when I saw slight bum action.

And from experience as a bloke, grabbing hands is probably going to be welcomed. Being polite, or overly concerned about not causing offence, is maybe gentlemanly, but also (as far as I'm concerned) having someone grab the hands is helpful sometimes.

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:37:13

or him wanking the plank, because hes on his own.

oh dear! im laughing at my own jokes, frustration does not suit me.

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 23:38:44

Avast behind!!!!

(Sorry, I just like saying it...)

I know it's lovely and respectful and there's your brilliant mind and that's even better than your incredibly tits.... But this was date 4. When do we start to wonder if he's asexual?

Rubbish in bed can be.... Tutored. With practise.

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 23:39:57

watch I'm actually a bit scared of trying mysinglefriend, or any of the supposedly better sites. because at the moment I can kid tell myself its the sites I've used like POF or whatever, its the wrong men, but whatever its not me. but what if its just the same on those sites too, then I really have no hope. And I don't think there is anything wrong with me, but most other people seem to think there is, including every man I've dated...

Re the pirate, he might just not be a boob man. One of my loveliest friends is married to a man who is not at all a boob man (hers are v impressive) and I remember her saying he was a bit frightened of them when they were first dating, and almost never touched them - I think he got more accustomed to them in time though smile

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:41:06

it can only be described as slight bum action smile no grabbing or squeezing. just gentle hands running over.

v.e.r.y. f.r.u.s.t.r.a.t.i.n.g.

anyway - i dont want to have to grab his hands. i want to be ravished. hard. againist a wall.

he had better be trying to be a gentleman.

i also revoke my earlier statment of sex not mattering. as predicted by snape.
or mystic snape as i may now refer to her as smile

bantamrooster Wed 17-Oct-12 23:41:41

So there's a new topic, snape - how much can rubbish in bed be tutored? If some people are introverted and unresponsive, because that's the way they are, then how much can you help them to be better for what you like?

bantamrooster Wed 17-Oct-12 23:45:57

but snail - from my experience, the grabbing encourages the ravishing. Sometimes you have to open the floodgates, give the signal, start the motor, whatever. Once it's started it doesn't stop. But some guys (and me included here as I'm trying not to generalise as I've been perceived badly for doing so so far) feel like we don't want to be crass and push too far without permission. Once permission is given (if that makes sense) then we're happy to take the lead. Some guys I think will always want to be shown the lead. Different strokes etc. But unless you lead you're not going to find out maybe?

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:48:12

god. no.he cant be.
date 5 had better get a bit futher. do you think if i just go topless he might get the hint?
im going to have to ramp up the flirting i think.

i also dont want to be practised on. i tried that once, it was not fun.

my single friend is mean to be good though, its worth a go surely? we could all help do the friend bit, and then you get to write a bit too. its free to join and look around, so, you could do that? and then you have to pay to send messages. I shall confess, i nearly joined once... and was going to write my own friend bit.... !!!! smile Will be a very different kind of man i should think, someone far more suited to you, possibly.

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:50:28

www.mysinglefriend.com/search/basic/page/2

this is the search for age 38-48 in london.... cant specify further without joining....

hatesponge Wed 17-Oct-12 23:53:31

Watch I'll try it if you (and anyone else who wants to/isnt fed up with my constant whingeing) will do the friend bit please smile

...and also if everyone will put up with me being ever sadder than I am now if I'm just as successful on there as I have been on POF.

I think the pirate may have been on best behaviour because DD was in the house...see what happens on Saturday, it may go very differently!

watchoutforthatsnail Wed 17-Oct-12 23:57:12

bant- i took my top off in front of his face. his eyes were nipple level.
i spent ages with my hands up his t shirt and trailing nicely over his stomach where his jeans were. my fingers slightly went under his waistband.
BUT - since he didnt recirprocate, then i didnt take it any further.....

also, i was sat straddling him. dry humping him. how the fuck more signal do i need to give.

a writhing girl on your lap, taking her top off should surely be a green light....

Pah - clearly i am too easy smile its been 4 dates.....!!! how on earth do people hold out for months on end!

snapespeare Wed 17-Oct-12 23:58:37

Taking off your bra cannot be construed as 'flirting'. -mystic snape.

Well, some people will always just be sexually incompatible, but I do think that with practise, people know what 'buttons' to press blush. What gets the other participant off, what works and whilst my LTRs have then got a bit predictable and boring in that respect, (mix it up a little, why dontcha?) I tend to think that human sexuality is so deeply imprinted that is is/should be like breathing. We don't all breathe properly. We forget that breathing in means stomachs extended, we don't take our time over it...

On a ridiculous level... Men who have had cats make better lovers (hear me out) strooooookeeeey! Languorous. Rough when they need to be, tender throughout. blush blush blush

watchoutforthatsnail Thu 18-Oct-12 00:00:00

maybe because he knew he had to go???? possibly that was it smile

im sure we would be delighted to write you a blurb. its worth a go. and dont worry about the moaning, we have all moaned for 25 threads smile

bantamrooster Thu 18-Oct-12 00:01:09

watch, okay, enough information. I'm a single bloke with no successful dates in a while. Please don't rewrite '50 shades' for me... smile

And yes it should be a green light, maybe DD in the house is a factor.

snapespeare Thu 18-Oct-12 00:01:44

So, yes... People who might be a bit awkward or reticent can be taught the 'ways of lurrrrrve' and of they don't want to learn then they are either (1) selfish (2) dull neither of those are particularly attractive traits even without our knickers off.

bantamrooster Thu 18-Oct-12 00:02:44

really? Selfish and dull aren't attractive? Damn, I've been reading the wrong books..

watchoutforthatsnail Thu 18-Oct-12 00:02:58

puppy had cats. he was good in bed. it was a shame he was crap in absolutley every other area!

pirate likes dogs. ( like me)

i just want to be pushed up aganist a wall.

im going for a cold shower.....!

( my appolgies for this!)

watchoutforthatsnail Thu 18-Oct-12 00:05:15

bant - its a dating thread. sometimes we talk sex. it happens smile
50 shades has nothing on us smile
( besides it was the biggest load of tripe going)

hatesponge Thu 18-Oct-12 00:06:19

I have registered for free.

Most of the men my age are looking for women 35 and under hmm

watchoutforthatsnail Thu 18-Oct-12 00:10:35
hatesponge Thu 18-Oct-12 00:19:37

I'll concede he's not bad smile And he's not that far - about 15 miles from me, opposite sides of the Thames.

Although he is a bit short, doesn't have children or a degree. I know I'm being stupidly fussy though blush considering he's a massive step up from the lowlifes Ive been on dates with on POF.

bantamrooster Thu 18-Oct-12 00:22:08

watch

He looks nice. I would, except I'm a guy. And straight. And brentwood isn't that far away from me, but again he's not my type

So out of interest, do women get the same number of obvious russian visa-seekers that men get? I keep having women wink at me all the time, and when I mail them to point out that Glasgow is really a bit too far from me, I always get the same response (You do the looking lovely, I am thinking we are mates of the soul, mail me on yahoo.com, etc etc)

I guess you don't get that so much?

watchoutforthatsnail Thu 18-Oct-12 00:24:14

Yes, yes you are smile the scaffolder didnt have a degree either.....smile

He might be a bit on the short side but if you met and got on like a house on fire then i expect you wouldnt notice. Surely worth swapping a few messages with?

bantamrooster Thu 18-Oct-12 00:27:52

a bit short? He's 5'9, that's average height. Not having children isn't that much of a bad thing, surely? It makes him more available, if nothing else.

Oh and that's another topic. I've read about women wanting tall men. To be enfolded, some of the time. I've also read there are a large number of men who will fib somewhat about their height. Personally, being 5' 9 and three quarters, I'll fib and say I'm 5 '10, and generally won't date women who are 6 foot plus, but that's usually a mutual thing because they don't want to date anyone shorter than them.

Opinions? Would you rather date a tall guy (a foot taller than you) who was okay-ish, or a guy the same height as you who was funny and sweet?

watchoutforthatsnail Thu 18-Oct-12 00:33:59

Tall. I like tall men. Over 6' really .
Im 5.3' just

Yogagirl17 Thu 18-Oct-12 00:37:36

LOL @ wanking the plank! watch - maybe he was just worried that if he started he wouldn't want to stop.

Sponge - It is simply NOT TRUE that all the men you've dated think there is something wrong with you - you know that! I know you do. You know perfectly well there a million and one reasons why people do runners, 99.9% of which are their issues, not yours - ranging from they are hopelessly immature and think the grass is always greener to you initimdate the fuck out of them because you are smart and gorgeous and amazing and they'd rather dump you before you get the chance to dump them. You know this. Just try and remember it even when you're feeling shitty.

Right, am off to have a look at My Single Friend.

bantamrooster Thu 18-Oct-12 00:37:44

Why?

bantamrooster Thu 18-Oct-12 00:39:18

Sorry the 'why' was - 'why 6 feet', not 'why my single friend'

Yogagirl17 Thu 18-Oct-12 00:42:33

bantam i would only date someone taller than me but i'm only 5'0 so that's not hard! I've actually turned men down tho cause they're too tall - over 6'0 is really just too much. I slept with a guy once who was 6'3 and it was more like a game of twister than sex! Not to be too graphic about it, but if we're connected at..ahem..waist height then I end up face to face with a nipple! blushgrin

hatesponge Thu 18-Oct-12 00:43:33

bantam, not russian bride(groom)s but I have had scammers from Africa, they normally pretend to be US servicemen. V bizarre, but quite easy to spot from the off as their english is so bad!

Height- my Ex (father of my DS2) was almost the same height as me (I'm 5' 6, he claims he is 5'8 but is at least an inch shorter) I've dated lots of men 5'8 ish, ideally I would prefer a man who is 6ft, but I wouldn't rule anyone out so long as they were at least as tall as me. My main reason for preferring taller men is that I wear VERY high heels most of the time, and don't want to be towering over men.

Yogagirl17 Thu 18-Oct-12 00:47:38

Hmm, just had a very quick search and only 20 men in my area - and that's without even ruling anyone out for any reason other than age (I've put 38-49)....not promising.

bantamrooster Thu 18-Oct-12 00:49:11

yoga face to face with a nipple isn't so bad as far as I'm concerned, but only in certain situations I think. During conversation over coffee it's not so good.

bantamrooster Thu 18-Oct-12 00:50:20

yoga how does that compare with Match or POF (or whatever you usually use?)

Yogagirl17 Thu 18-Oct-12 00:55:31

LOL bantam, no face to face with a nipple during coffee is not great! But basically it means you can't kiss and have sex at the same time. Kissing is good.

Using OKC at the moment and there are a lot more. Even Soulmates which I used for a while had more than that. Might have a closer look though...

bochead Thu 18-Oct-12 01:44:12

hatesponge - I'm not even scoring a first date sad

having decided that 9 years celibate is silly and that it's time I did summat about it, i'm not impressed with this online dating malarkey at all. I'll be honest and say I thought I was still attractive enough to have merited one quick coffee by now.

Currently feeling VERY frumpy, even school discos yielded more success than pof lol!

I do prefer taller blokes as I'm five nine I'm afraid.

ParsleyTheLioness Thu 18-Oct-12 05:50:13

Morning all, I am awake at stupid-o-clock...Snape I'm sorry the work stuff is crap, but I did laugh at the tits falling off thing...
Sponge I have generally gone for men with degrees, but I have made a conscious effort to widen my criteria now. Some of the nicer men I have known in my life have not had them. They need to be smart, yes, but many smart people I know have not had a university education. At the moment, someone who has a pulse, is nice, smart and not fugly would be a bonuse...
Ok, offputting profile of the day. Let the sausage see the roll. In the opening line. Hmm, hard to resist, even though I am a vegetarian...

DoingItForMyself Thu 18-Oct-12 07:16:23

WRT to the height issue. I wouldn't let it put me off. If pressed, I would have said I prefer taller men (last POF I really liked was 6'4) even though I'm only 5'3, but new bloke is apparently 5'9 (+ 3/4!) and although he seems quite short compared to other men I've dated, it means I can look him in the face, I can kiss him when I like (if he was taller I'd have to wait for him to bend down!) and we just 'fit' together.

Its more his build which attracted me when we met as he has very broad shoulders, which makes me feel petite when he cuddles me, so I get the 'enfolding' without the height. None of this was apparent from his profile pics though.

I am a little wary of wearing heels with him, but he is quite cocky very confident, so I don't think its an issue for him!

bochead are you being pro-active, searching for guys or waiting for them to contact you? I found most of the ones that sent me messages weren't for me, but if you send a concise but personal message to someone you like the look of and your pics are appealing (get a male friend to let you know!) I'm sure you will get some responses. I usually say something along the lines of "Hello, I like your profile, you sound funny/interesting/like someone I could get along with and you have a lovely smile. Do you fancy meeting up for a coffee sometime?" No chat, no bollocks!

OhWesternWind Thu 18-Oct-12 07:16:47

Let the sausage see the roll?????? WTAF??!? That's right cheered me up this morning even though I'm a veggie too! Yuk.

Watch the lack of action given your erm condition at the time seems pretty odd to me. Even with taking things slowly I would have expected a bit of touching at the very least. Did he say anything at all or just generally ignored all bosoms in the area? Think you need to get him to bed sharp ish and see if things are okay. Tbh I couldn't be doing with a "learner" at this point in my life but I think I'm a bit older than you! Am discovering quite an appetite for a bit of kink which needs someone who knows what he's doing.