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He's obsessed with sex...

(417 Posts)
Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 11:27:22

We have been dating six months , and they have largely been the happiest ever for me , except for his obsession with sex.... he takes it as rejection if I turn him down , and mostly manages to get over it.... but I turned him down last night , I was tired and stressed and not in the mood , (and his expectation is a huge turn off anyway)We were snuggled up , and he kept groping me which I was fending off but gently , to me it should be clear by then?! so he turns my face to his and insists on proper tongue snogging , which I had been evading... I HATE snogging if i'm not in the mood for sex.. I'm not frigid , when were both in the right mood the sex is incredible....he seems to think that because thats the case , we should ALWAYS be at it... so pissed off ,he turned his back on me last night, he's clearly sulking today...angry

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 10-Oct-12 11:32:23

A man who pressurises a partner for sex despite being told 'no thanks' and then sulks when he doesn't get it is inconsiderate, selfish and has a very nasty streak into the bargain. Some might say it even qualifies as sexual abuse. I wouldn't stick around...

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 10-Oct-12 11:34:00

Reassessment on second reading ... the 'tongue snogging' and 'groping' are sexual abuse when you've made it clear you don't want either. He's a horrible person. Ditch

Agree with cogito.

He probably sees sex as his right. Its a red flag and honestly, I think you should seriously consider your future with this man. He is groping you when he knows you dont want him to. How long before he goes further?

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 11:36:42

I hate being grabbed and groped all the time... it should be obvious , I didnt actually say no...the fact that he treats me very considerately in every other way doesnt give him free rein or rights over my body... intimacy doesnt have to be penetrative to be loving... I knew we were gonna get hung up on this again soon , and thats part of my resistance tbh...even when were not having sex , he talks about it alot... which is subtle pressure too!!

susiedaisy Wed 10-Oct-12 11:38:03

My exH used to do this and he also wouldn't take no for an answer as time progressed, it was awful and in the end it was one of the (many) reasons we divorced,
I would have a proper discussion with him and see if he is capable of handling things differently, if not I personally wouldn't stick around!

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 11:39:19

I was in a DV situation for years , left five years ago.... I have major problems with depression and can't see clearly right now.. its normal not to want your breasts squeezed randomly in the middle of the day isnt it??

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 11:40:47

We talked about alot of things when we went thru wobbly patches a couple of months in... all to do with his sense of rejection etc... clearly we are there again now sad

OneHandFlapping Wed 10-Oct-12 11:42:16

ABsolutely normal. You have a right to go about your day without someone grabbing at the intimate parts of your body. I would hate it too.

mrsfuzzy Wed 10-Oct-12 11:42:20

its great that he clearly fancies you so much, but it can get tiring especially if you are human like the rest of us and not a blow up doll, you say you are happy with your relationship, is that in every respect or is he 'smothering in other ways? could be he is needy and wants the constant reassurance that he is the one you want to be with, if so that is abit worrying. sex does feature heavily in new relationships but it shouldn't be the be all and end all. i think that you should take time to tell him, away form the bedroom, that yes, he is amazing in bed, but you don,t always feel like sex when your tired, and that his pawing you isn't helping, if he is insisting on kissing you and you don't want to that is assault for a start, he sounds insecure but that doesn't mean you put up with it, sulking is plain daft and best ignored, he just makes himself miserable don't let him drag you down too.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 11:52:32

I find it HUGELY irritating... we dont live together , but we spend our weekends together , and its OBVIOUS I don't want to be fondled every five bloody minutes.. I'm in my forties , with four kids , and a busy stressfull life... we had a wild night saturday , which he keeps talking about , and he clearly expected seconds sunday morning... I however was exhausted and hungover , just wanted to fester for as long as possible with coffee... ykwim .
Yes he can be too intense in other ways , but I stepped on that... told him after DV I will not tolerate obsessive behaviour in any way shape or form , and that that was about him , not me....He's been better on other levels since , but his tendency to obsess over the time we spent together and come up with some narcissistic poor me outcome split us up for a few weeks mid relationship... He said he wouldn't put me thru any more bullshit like that and that he had behaved like a cretin...

Its already starting.

Please end this now. You need a kind man who isnt insecure and needy.

Helpyourself Wed 10-Oct-12 11:59:23

God, it's exhausting just reading about it.
Why bother OP? Time to move on.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 11:59:30

It's silly , I posted a significant little card thing on his fb , not vomit inducing , just quietly romantic ..... hes studiously ignored it , and my message asking if he was ok....

Offred Wed 10-Oct-12 11:59:47

You don't have to say no, he has to gain consent. Agree with cog. He's nasty and entitled and inconsiderate and he has sexually assaulted you on more than one occasion. This is only likely to get worse. Get rid of him. Please don't feel you have to tolerate unwanted sexual attention because you have agreed to a relationship and/or don't have the confidence to say no when you feel no.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 10-Oct-12 12:00:02

I have a mismatch of sex drive with my dh and he has had issues with feeling rejected because of it. He is actively getting help for that.

He has never behaved like such a moron though!

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:00:17

I bother because on every other level he is my best friend , and I love him to bits...

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 10-Oct-12 12:01:15

Just saw your last post. So he's punishing you for not having sex as and when he wants it! He's a twat!

Offred Wed 10-Oct-12 12:01:20

This ignoring you is to teach you not to complain about his assaults don't be such a wet blanket! Why send him romantic cards! Why shouldn't you say no and why does he want to have sex with you when you don't want it?

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:01:50

I'm deeply uncomfortable re the sexual stuff , I have had my head in the sand I guess

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 10-Oct-12 12:02:30

He's been better on other levels since , but his tendency to obsess over the time we spent together and come up with some narcissistic poor me outcome split us up for a few weeks mid relationship

What was he doing? Was it possessive behaviour?

Offred Wed 10-Oct-12 12:02:34

I don't think the post title is correct, he's not obsessed with sex, he feels entitled to sex whether or not his partner wants it.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:03:00

I posted the card before the sulking became obvious... I have since removed it.

Helpyourself Wed 10-Oct-12 12:03:08

hmm
Read the post from 11.52, and the irritation quite justifiably oozing from it, then 11.59 confused
Why are you posting quietly romantic cards and checking if he's ok?
Dump him, work on your self esteem and take some time out.

mrsfuzzy Wed 10-Oct-12 12:03:20

you've only been together for six months and, not being funny, but it sounds like you,ve been married too many years! it's great at times, but you argue, he obsesses about that saturday well, hello mate, that is the past, he gropes you, he's disrespectful to your wishes not to have sex on demand, you are doing a great job as a mum to your kids and now you have another one to deal with! do yourself a favour, do not move in with him, reading what i wrote before and reading your last post, i think i would now say kick this twonk to the kerb and concentrate on you and the kids, its better to be alone rather any man is better than noone. you,ve had crap in your life, you can do so much better. don't put up with it, as a previous poster said where will it end?

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:05:24

Not possessive , no... He cooked up a huge deal about me being selfish and inconsiderate when he had missed me so badly when I went away with my kids... despite me going straight to his from the airport... He admitted hand on heart when THAT blew that he needed to grow up and not behave like a moron..

fatfingers Wed 10-Oct-12 12:06:29

Sounds like you have different sex drives. Tbh, I don't think its unreasonable to want sex twice a week (if you only get to spend time together at weekends) but it does seem like instead of discussing this like an adult, he resorts to grabbing and groping you like a teenager which is making matters worse.

However, I have been in a relationship where dp didn't want sex as often as me and it was hurtful that, even though we only spent time together at weekends, he didn't always want to have sex with me so I can see your dp's pov on that issue.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 10-Oct-12 12:08:41

Selfish because you for went away with your kids?! That is possessive! Jealous of you spending time with your kids!

His reaction is designed to make you think twice about doing that again in case it gets the same reaction.

He sounds like the two abusive relationships i was in one which became violent. It doesn't get better.

Offred Wed 10-Oct-12 12:09:23

I don't think it is about different sex drives either. Having different sex drives doesn't make you sexually assault your partner and then sulk because you failed to actually rape them!!

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:10:39

We spend most of our weekends in bed tbh... ALOT of sex usually , and one night a week he comes here , which is when im far less sexual..as I have a teenage daughter in the next room....etc , plus I dont want to snog when anyone can just wander in at any second... we arent teenagers no !

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:11:52

No , selfish cos I was knackered and unresponsive/stressed when I got home... nothing to do with going away , It was my lack of bloody bells and whistles on being reunited...

mrsfuzzy Wed 10-Oct-12 12:12:42

HE IS A POTENTIAL RAPIST are you getting the message yet? we don't know him but from what you say and having now read all the posts from #1 we think are trying to get a serious message over to you, please listen for your sake and the kids, you say you love him to bits, your ex treated you badly, don't let it happen again i think your post would ring alarm bells with any woman.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 10-Oct-12 12:13:57

I'm sorry but the more you describe him, the more I dislike him. Using guilt-tripping to control you, the sexually abusive/inconsiderate behaviour, the 'poor me' crap, tendency to obsess, weaselly apologies for being a 'cretin' .... You're only six months into this relationship which is the stage when people are usually still on their very best behaviour. In other words, this is as well-behaved as he gets. The more comfortable he gets in the relationship, the more he'll think he's entitled to keep groping and harassing you. I don't think that's how 'friends' should treat each other.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 10-Oct-12 12:14:13

Oh i see! Unresponsive sexually or just not jumping up and down with excitement to see him?

Viviennemary Wed 10-Oct-12 12:16:42

You are clearly not in the least bit suited. He sounds insensitive and selfish to say the least. And it's doubtful if he will improve. He'll get worse. That would be my opinion. And don't want to be too blunt but if you find weekends with him hugely irritating what would it be like if you were living with him all week. It's really a bit of an impossible situation.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:16:43

I am hearing you , yes.. and I would likely say the same to anyone in the same situation , apart from this he is a very gentle empathic man... he would never force himself on me physically past the forced kissing stuff , he wouldnt dare apart from anything else , but the sulking stuff is coercion , which is also sexually aggressive... I know this , I lived with the master of it for long enough..and he DID rape me... Perhaps because the contrast between personalities re the DV exe and him has muddied the waters regarding the inherently emotional abusive behaviours...

LadyInDisguise Wed 10-Oct-12 12:18:25

The only thing you have know just right now is that it is NORMAL not want to be fondled every five minutes. It is normal that you expect him to stop when you rejected his advances. It is normal to say NO to seconds if you don't feel like it and it would normal if it was the first time in the day too.

There is NOTHING in your reaction or expectations that isn't normal at all.

His attitude though isn't normal or not to accepted.

mrsfuzzy Wed 10-Oct-12 12:19:42

i don't want to sound selfish, but either stop making excuses for this piece of scum and dump him or stop whinging about him . okay eveyone hates me now, yes, get over it, think about what you want to do then work to make that change, you are only having one life don't get drag into the gutter by this moron.

LadyInDisguise Wed 10-Oct-12 12:20:39

little, don't try and compare his behaviour with the one of your ex.
It's not because he is better in a lot of other ways that yu should accept any of this.
This is not acceptable either.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 10-Oct-12 12:25:10

I went from one abusive ex to the next thinking that the second one was completely different. It soon became clear that most of the behaviours were the same, the jealousy, isolating me from family and friends, sulking if i spoke to a man, controlling behaviour, trying to stop me going out, telling me that other people didn't like me etc etc. I realised some time later that they both did a few things the other didn't but they also ticked way too many of the same boxes, the important ones.

So they were the same sort of personality just presented in slightly different ways.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:25:26

I'm not whingeing about him as such , lol.. I'm trying to get a general perspective from other women who don't know either of us or our histories...and his attitude stinks , I had hoped all the talking we did before had put it to bed..he is a HUGELY intelligent man , with a bad case of arrested development in his emotions....He is likely to be keeping very quiet so he doesn't go off on one , he knows he will lose me if he does... but ignoring the message is a huge mistake

piratecat Wed 10-Oct-12 12:26:33

there you go.

he forced snogs on you, you said no , he's sulking. you've sent him a romantic card.

you've taken it down. he's already seen it now so damage is done.

he 'won'

littleblue you're saying he wouldn't force himself on your physically, but in the next sentence you say apart from 'the forced kissing stuff' - he DOES force himself on you physically. FFS, what is grabbing your breasts randomly in the middle of the day?

Sheesh, it sounds like living with a randy dog. Does he hump your leg when the vicar comes over for tea? grin

Listen, he doesn't have to be using his penis to be overriding your physical and emotional boundries with his enormous, all-important 'needs' and squashing your sense of autonomy, and your right to a silent 'no.' He shouldn't be forcing you to say "STOP IT" out loud or fight him off. He should be looking for a 'yes' and if he doesn't get one, backing the fuck off!

ARGH men like this are so tiring. You're never right unless you're shagging them - it's either waaaaah, my feeeeelings, why don't you want more sex with meeee? Or it's waaaah, my peeeenis, it's going to get bored and wander off of its' own accord.

He doesn't respect you. Sorry. He really doesn't. His behaviour and attitude are NOT normal and, frankly, sound like a pain in the bum. I stopped going out with men like this in my very early 20s (in fact he sounds like a teen boyfriend who was trying out the 'if you really loved me you'd do it' line when I wasn't ready) ... and I've never looked back. Find someone nicer, really, really you don't need this shit.

piratecat Wed 10-Oct-12 12:27:35

ignoring the message wasn't a mistake unless you pull him up on it.

ignoring the message was using his power again.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:28:55

I know all the DV behaviours... only too well , its ONLY his attachment to having sex to feel loved that is ringing bells , as soon as he feels rejected , pandoras box opens and he starts seeing other negatives which arent there... Im very steady as a person , but I lost it with him bigtime before... told him in no uncertain terms that all that crap had nothing to do with me... and I wasn't owning one jot of it... but I am aren't I , hence asking him if he's ok , its me slipping into co dependent type behaviours again...

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:31:44

You are right... I knew it , despite the self denial.. Its nothing I didn't know already , and would say to ANYONE else.. and HAVE ! sad

och, littleblue, it's so hard.

but you do know you deserve better. You certainly don't deserve this.

Sorry Littleblue but you've made a mistake that nearly all women who have had one abusive partner subsequently make - you've picked another fucknugget, just a different type of fucknugget. Someone, somewhere, convinced you at some point that it's a terrible, shameful thing for a woman to be single, so you've absorbed the idea that if he isn't actually kicking you round the kitchen every night, then he's a Good Man. THis one's not. THis one's a rapist-in-training (and probably in fact, this sort of non-stop clutching and slobbering and rubbing the clammy end of his knob all over you is not behaviour that springs out of nowwhere; I expect there are several women in his past who wonder from time to time whether they should have reported an 'unwanted insertion' or a sleepless night at the end of which they went, oh just get it over with...)

Throw this one back. Tell him the relationship isn't working for you, return any belongings of his that are in your house and instruct him not to make any further contact with you. I'm afraid there is a reasonable chance that you will have to involve the police at least once to make him fuck off, but it's probably going to be more tiresome than dangerous.

Then promise yourself that you will avoid men and dating and sex for at least a year while you work on your self-esteem, boundaries and on re-tuning your knob radar. Best of luck.

LadyInDisguise Wed 10-Oct-12 12:37:40

Little I think you should be listening to yourself. You have a little voice in your head that is VERY wise.
Listen to that voice. It is right. None of this has anything to do with you. It's all about him and his issues.

You knew that a few weeks/months ago but he has managed to 'prove' you that it's not the case. And in that time, has also managed to convince you that in some ways, you hold some of the responsibility.
You are NOT.

remember also that being steady doesn't mean not responding and staying calm even when your DP is talking/behaving shit. It's about being able to express your needs in a calm and reasonable way and not to take NO for an answer when he is not respecting your boundaries.

piratecat Wed 10-Oct-12 12:43:05

blue, we all do it, we 'know it' but we make excuses. doesn't make us crap. nothing wrong with giving people a chance. it's just realising it, then acting on it.

then sticking to it. x

schoolgovernor Wed 10-Oct-12 12:45:54

"a bad case of arrested development in his emotions"...
Really? Stop making excuses from him and listen to that inner voice that is screaming at you to get rid. You're only dating him, you haven't made vows or had children with him. Get rid. (Just as you hopefully would have done when you were younger, before you were married, and when you didn't view everyone you went out with as a prospective life partner).

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 12:46:56

I have wondered recently whether I need some counselling re the DV relationship... I have alot of PTSD type symptoms (pointed out by a close friend) Because he is so funny , charming , intelligent , empathic...etc ,a small voice (not the wise one) has wondered if it IS me thats fucked up for not wanting intimate intrusion adhoc.... I'm painfully aware that my thought processes are very skewed , I have severe depression , insomnia..and permanent crippling pain... DP is a chiropractor btw... ironic huh , so he gets to fix me ... a friend of mine has christened him The Wizard of Oz "Don't step behind the curtain yo" .. shes VERY worried about the headfuckery stuff....oh and that wise voice? its bizarre really... because I am the person so many people come to for relationship advice....hows that for ironic sad

schoolgovernor Wed 10-Oct-12 12:47:49

I'm just re-reading. You know what? If anyone I was dating started behaving like that in my bed he wouldn't still be in the house for breakfast. And if it was at his place, I'd just get up, get dressed and walk out. Just - yuck!

schoolgovernor Wed 10-Oct-12 12:50:57

We crossed. He ISN'T empathic. If he was empathic he would pick up on the fact that you were tired and just wanted a cuddle and react accordingly. And now you tell us that your friend is trying to warn you about him (and probably banging her head repeatedly against a brick wall). What more do you need to hear?
And when or hopefully if you do split up with him, don't agonise, don't engage in heart-wringing analysis with him. Just tell him it's not working, take back your key, hand him his stuff (ready in a bin bag) and shut the door behind him. It's not your job in life to try to mend broken creepy men like this.

Dahlen Wed 10-Oct-12 12:57:50

He is NOT a "gentle, empathic man".

A gentle empathic man would recognise that you needed time to just be with your DC. A gentle empathic man would not expect you to go straight to his house. He would think that maybe you'd want to go home, unpack and chill out for a few hours first. And he'd do all this immediately, not show off and then just SAY that he's sorry. All he's done by saying sorry is get you to forgive him while at the same time ensuring that your line in the sand has been drawn a little further away ready for next time.

A gentle, empathic man would respond to your pleas of tiredness/stress by offering to make you a cuppa, giving you a (non-sexual) massage.

A gentle, empathic man would want to nurse your hangover with breakfast and coffee, not 'seconds'.

A gentle, empathic man would pick up on your signals of not wanting sex and not force you to be explict about it (then sulk when you are).

A gentle, empathic man would not be causing you to have serious discussions about headfuckery two months into dating! shock

Seriously? the only solution to this is to call it a day. He may be better than your X but that doesn't make him ok and it's almost guaranteed that he will not get better, only worse, as every incident results in your boundaries being further eroded.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 10-Oct-12 13:00:13

'Normal' to me is a man that finds you sexually desirable, enjoys being tactile and affectionate with you but has the intelligence and maturity to understand 'no' even when it's not spelt out in letters six inches high and is happy to settle for a cuddle without sulking or making himself unpleasant. Normal is certainly not forcing physical intimacy of any kind.

Loneliness is such a terrible thing that many of us (myself included) have compromised standards and ignored inner voices rather than go back to it. So where you are is understandable and it doesn't make you weak or foolish. Just human

foolonthehill Wed 10-Oct-12 13:00:53

Big boot......contact.......his backside.......out of life.....no returns........better life.........counselling for self....even better life........good relationship with self, DCs and potentially partner........even better life.

bet this man isn't making your depression any better!

MaBaya Wed 10-Oct-12 13:06:36

Agree with other posters. It is NOT SEXY, as well as being invasive, rude and arguably abusive to pressurise someone in to sex or sulk if they dont feel in the mood. And only six months in and he cannt even be arsed to conceal this behaviour? Lucky escape. Move on!

susiedaisy Wed 10-Oct-12 13:08:42

Completely agree with all of cogitos posts!

Anniegetyourgun Wed 10-Oct-12 13:13:15

I don't want to go on at you because you do clearly "get it", just wondering what you're going to do about it now and that's totally your decision, but would like to pick up on a seeming inconsistency. You say he's your best friend, you have a laugh together etc (and free chiropractic treatment too!), but then it appears that you only see each other for two and a bit days in the week and he expects to spend nearly all that time having sex, talking about having sex, trying to get you in the mood for sex... in other words not a great deal of time for healthy non-sex-related interaction, eh? Dunno about you, but I'd feel like a piece of meat on a slab rather than a loved partner. At least you've got friends to talk to who don't regard small talk as foreplay.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 13:13:17

I hear you.... I know I have been really quite unwell with depression for a long time now... and no , he isn't helping depression wise , when it kicked off before I felt close to breakdown , and I'm a tough old boot really , I've been thru hell much of my life , my father was emotionally abusive , I'm a textbook case tbh.... how very boring.... I will make an appt to see Gp and request counselling.I know forcing kissing isnt normal...I think I've gone colder on him since that started , he's done that a few times and I fucking hate it... you are all entirely right , it was mumsnet who helped me see what my DV situ actually was , and helped me get out...

Anniegetyourgun Wed 10-Oct-12 13:14:45

Oh, and what Dahlen and Cogito and pretty much everyone else says.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 13:15:36

I feel like a fucktoy tbh Annie... however he behaves..its there underneath , we talk online all the time in between about life and the universe... he says I drive him wild with desire ,I couldnt even get a new pair of boots without him being suggestive about me modelling them for him ffs

foolonthehill Wed 10-Oct-12 13:15:36

waving pompoms for Little blue..yay!

Dahlen Wed 10-Oct-12 13:16:14

Try to feel positively about it. You knew in your gut that something wasn't right. You did something about it. You got the information you needed and now you are going to kick this man into touch and get some help from your GP.

You have taken control of your life and this is proof positive that your instincts are good and can be relied on.

You have made more of a recovery than you know. smile

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 13:23:37

If I hadn't gone thru extreme and overt abuse , I would have a healthier perspective maybe... I'm not a stupid woman , just a bit blind cringe

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 10-Oct-12 13:33:33

You sound like a very strong and intelligent woman to me littleblue.

Dahlen Wed 10-Oct-12 13:34:44

Don't beat yourself up about it. You've recognised it for what it is. This is A Good Thing and something many women in similar situations will fail to do. Feel good about yourself for it.

Another thing to remember is that our whole society works against abused women. We're told about how important it is not to break up the family, how men generally don't like aggressive women (i.e. women who stand up for themselves), how important it is to get and keep a man, how women must have provoked a violent man (so shifting blame), how there's a fine line between passion and anger, etc. It all serves to normalise abuse.

piratecat Wed 10-Oct-12 13:37:30

to me too. very self aware.x

BigBroomstickBIWI Wed 10-Oct-12 13:41:10

Oh dear. I don't know much about DV or EA (thankfully), but just reading your OP made me shudder.

This man is assaulting you.

You are not stupid, but you are coming from a damaged place (sorry - couldn't' think of a better/more diplomatic way to put that), but hopefully the responses from everyone here will help you to reach a more 'normal' perspective.

I think you need to get shot of him sad

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 13:42:03

thank you xx

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 13:44:59

I just tried to imagine myself forcing a snog on someone who clearly didnt want it.... yes , its assault.

littleblue we live in a world where all kinds of abusive relationships are held up as ideals that are madly romantic and sexy (twilight, 50 sodding shades) and frankly, even those of us who have been fortunate enough to NOT bump into abusive partners are still a bit warped by all the 'women must be dominated, want to be protected, swept off their feet' bollocks. I salute you for listening to that still small voice of 'heyyy wait a moment, this isn't right!' and planning to do something about it. Well done you!

When are you going to tell him?

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 13:52:49

I don't watch tv much or read supermarket porn..lol , I'm a hardass feminist in fact... its a complex situ , as I'm also a tad submissive... tmi I know , but its relevant , and I think he's exploiting that...but thats all about trust , DEEP trust , and enjoying a bit of (very) mild domination in bed only should be deployed once there's a clear green light....such a relationship takes maturity and shit loads of respect... so yes , its a mess .... I need to gain a bit of bloody clarity on all of it...

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 13:56:04

I'm out of the whole relationship thing for a long while after this....

mrsfuzzy Wed 10-Oct-12 14:18:54

littleblue, well..... what a turn around! i think i could probably speak for everyone, well done! we've all had your best interests at heart but us women have to stand up and be counted and you have done just that, get your head together with some counselling, cognitive therapy if it helps and move on, hold your head up and look towards a happier future for you and your youngsters, i wish you the very best and hope you find yourself, mentally, in a happier place soon.

cannotseeaway Wed 10-Oct-12 15:07:19

I'm one of the stupid ones OP; together 5 years, 2 dc, suffering sexual harrassment / pressure for 4 years, only recognised it as such 2 months ago, too deeply embroiled in this situation to make a clean break. I would be urging you to get out of this relationship now, but I see I don't need to smile.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 16:10:09

It totally is harrassment...even when hes not expecting sex , he makes jokes about needing two pairs of trousers etc... which is also sexual pestery..

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 16:10:57

He usual texts/ims all thru the day between patients.... total silence

cannotseeaway Wed 10-Oct-12 16:18:09

He is sulking... yeuch. It sounds like you have made your mind up Littleblue, I hope you can be strong and end it soon; it is still early days in your relationship. Maybe you dumping him will give him the kick up the arse he needs to address his issues about sex and neediness, and you, of course, get to rest and relax without constant pressure smile.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Wed 10-Oct-12 17:22:27

Sulking . . . yuck!

piratecat Wed 10-Oct-12 17:28:55

he doesn't deserve any woman putting up with his crap.

hope you can stay focused. this thread has been really positive with all the support i think.

piratecat Wed 10-Oct-12 17:34:56

i'm feeling a bit concerned about his female patients and how he comes across with them tbh confused

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 18:13:44

He's very professional.... his patient/client base is well established , and he wouldnt risk putting a foot wrong... he is STILL silent , which is filling me with nothing but cold contempt...any man who rejects a loving and emotionally intimate evening..having been cooked for etc , because he didn't score a fuck doesn't rate for me..... there were grey areas when we hit the skids before , not this time...oh my , not at all !!

nkf Wed 10-Oct-12 18:16:16

I know you have moved on, hugely, from your original post but I had to post. What you wrote totally resonated with me. I married a man like this and I didn't know it was a warning sign. I just didn't know. The grabbing, the shoving his penis against me in bed, the sulking. It was all such a red flag and I didn't know that at the time. And I spent two decades with him! I feel so weird just reading this. Sorry to hijack.

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 18:26:29

No worries... whats really sad is Ive been here before sad

Confusingtimesahead Wed 10-Oct-12 18:53:39

I have been here before too ... But once he realised how much it was affecting me, he was great about it all, I felt at the time it had gone too far, but he got counselling and we have since enjoyed many happy years of fun and respect. We have a certain phrase we use for if 'either' of us are not in the mood, I won't tell you it but goes along the line of I will make it up to you soon! He was a wonderful man in many ways before but now he is a complete gent! Not saying it will always work but if they have a good heart let them try and show it!

nkf Wed 10-Oct-12 18:57:11

Confusingtimes, that's great but I think it sounds as if you were able to let him know that it was affecting me. I'd been abused as a child. I didn't know any better. I was a victim waiting to happen. Sorry, I need to get off this post before it all comes out.

HiHowAreYou Wed 10-Oct-12 19:00:37

You deserve better. Please believe that. x

BibiBlocksberg Wed 10-Oct-12 19:49:13

I was going to add my two pence about this type of character, having stupidly put up with one for a decade but I see things have moved on.

Just had to say that 'sexual pestery' has made it into my vocabulary as a firm favourite now, excellent way of putting it.

Go OP, you can do it and I echo the other posters who say you deserve better - MUCH better!

Yes you've been here before BUT look at how quickly you've acknowleged the re flags thats a good sign!

Sorry if it's been suggested before but google the Freedom program , lots of support there .

Yes, well done and thanks and wine to you. You've spotted his arsepigeon-ness after only six months, before he's got his feet under the table or impregnated you, you can just throw him out of your life and refuse any further contact with him. (Don't get hung up on guilt over hurting his feelings, he's not been bothered about hurting yours so you don't owe him anything but basic civility).

But it really is a good idea to get some counselling and some help with processing the bad shit that others (and this one) have done to your self-esteem. You're not stupid. You're not a born victim. You DON'T HAVE TO PUT UP WITH ANY MAN'S BULLSHIT.'

Ohhelpohnoitsa Wed 10-Oct-12 22:52:38

can i ask a question? does he have far fewer responsibilities than you? it sound s to me like you are running a house and kids and life etc etc etc, and he is dropping in one night in the week with very different expectations.... i. e. he is coming footloose and fancy free for a date with the sex goddess from the weekend while you are looking around your house at all the stuff that needs to be done and dealing with your dcs eand life in. general. it sounds like he is younger or a lot morw immature than you. i think you are in different life zones - you are like the rest of us here, he is behaving like a singleton who.lives with his parenta and therefore has nothing else to occupy him. men are from Mars and all that.....

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 23:53:09

Oh my... talk about nail on the head ! , he has no kids , lives alone with his dog...and in fact , longest relationship was a year ish... nother red flag ! Yes , I think he expects me to be all full of fuckliness when I do indeed have a very different hat on here... I am a mother first and foremost...and yes , he is a little younger than me , but emotionally considerably younger... I have two adult children who would behave with more decorum with their partners around other people than expect to sit around with a part of their partners anatomy in one hand....and no , hes not been bothered about hurting my feelings today... he finally broke his silence tonight , which I ignored , not out of spite or mind games , but because I have no words.... I got lumbered with my dv exe cos he didnt show his true colours til I was pregnant.... ironically , recently , dp sent me the link to Justin Lee Collins court case... the dv one..? "I could learn much from this man" he says.... apparently it was a joke , but holy FUCk...I gave him the whole dv lecture in SPADES

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 23:56:34

''sexual pestery'' is perfect , he says himself he ''cant resist chasing me round the kitchen cos hes a randy little bastard''

Cluffyfunt Wed 10-Oct-12 23:57:28

Bastard.

I take it he knows about your previous dv relationship?

He's showing you who he really is and it doesn't look pretty from here.

Sorry thanks

Littleblue Wed 10-Oct-12 23:58:22

Yes , he does....

Cluffyfunt Wed 10-Oct-12 23:58:42

Ha ha!
X posted and I see he has already named himself as a bastard!

Cluffyfunt Thu 11-Oct-12 00:00:08

Who in the right mind would send you that link and 'joke'?

Is he verry stupid?

Offred Thu 11-Oct-12 00:01:22

It isn't anything to do with different expectations, responsibilities, ages or sex drives. The problem is this man is a sexual abuser. Why that is is immaterial. What is known is that he has already sexually assaulted you more than once little blue and he doesn't think anything of it. He has recently been sulking because he didn't manage to get "sex" after he assaulted you. The reason for you not wanting him to grope and molest you is irrelevant, he's showing you that if you do this he will punish you. confused

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 00:04:04

My very loved cat was run over recently , I was beside myself , had him in bed with me prior to surgery next morning to mend his broken jaw..... and the bloody idiots making jokes about me stroking my sore pussy....tore a strip off him for that too.....its mad cos hes not a stupid man , highly educated etc...and can be very funny indeed...I dont get men , and the older I get , the more I prefer my dogs !

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 00:05:28

I see that now offred , this is why i brought this here

jm8997 Thu 11-Oct-12 00:07:17

My wife tried to initiate sex with me on Sunday night but I was tired and not feeling well. Do I have the right to refuse or am I a complete f***ing bastard?
I consider myself damned if I do and damned if I don't anyway, so to be honest, I don't think anyone can help me.

Cluffyfunt Thu 11-Oct-12 00:08:20

Sorry to harp on but I will anyway

You said earlier in the thread that you (due to you're experiences) know all about dv behaviours.

Just because this man is not a carbon copy of your ex doesn't make him a 'non abuser'.

I know than when you've been badly abused its easy to accept treatment that other (non abused) people wouldn't stand for.

I've certainly found that my tolerance for bad treatment in a relationship is an awful lot higher than friends who have grown up in happy homes and not suffered Dv.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 00:17:52

Its perspective I guess... and for the gent that commented , this isnt a man bashing thread...its twattery bashing thread...so if your in the mood for that , carry on , lol grin

I knew the forced bits , gentle as they are..were coercive and unhealthy , and grabbing my breasts etc when I was obv not in the mood is also out of order...hes been sulking today because I came to bed wearing the pj equivalent of a flannel nightie...and stayed his wandering hands... I have rape in my history , I have no tolerance for forced attentions , but like I said in an earlier post...was wondering if it was my baggage that was making his persistent lustiness so fucking irritating !!

BigBroomstickBIWI Thu 11-Oct-12 00:19:15

jm8997 - what a strange first post on Mumsnet.

How on earth is your post of any use to the OP?

Why not start your own thread?

jm8997 Thu 11-Oct-12 00:28:06

Sorry I have not been helpful to the original poster.
Isn't this website forum a place to share ideas, opinions and experiences?
I felt your comment BigBroomstickBIWI was unkind, but I guess I must defer to your greater experience on this forum.
Where do you suggest I start my new thread?
If this is not a place for me, I'll consider killing myself. No, that is not simply talk, I'm ready to do it now, as I cannot see a way out of my life without being labelled the perpetrator.

BigBroomstickBIWI Thu 11-Oct-12 00:30:24

You are on someone else's thread - therefore, you are are here to comment on the situation that the OP is in. Not talk about your own situation.

And you know very well where you can start a thread because you have already done so hmm

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 00:32:22

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 00:36:54

No offence generally... thats my very wrong soh creeping in ;)

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 00:44:17

Ok , I got moderated... can the gentleman in question kindly wander off and find another thread smile

OliviaLMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 11-Oct-12 00:44:32

Hi Jm8997
We're sorry that you're feeling so low = we do have a Mental health topic here and our web guide contains links of organisations that can help

OliviaLMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 11-Oct-12 00:45:35

hi Littleblue - we have pointed this poster in the right direction- hope you can continue to get some support on MN

jm8997 Thu 11-Oct-12 00:46:17

BigBroomstickBIWI As discussed, i will leave this thread now you have successfully hounded me from it.
I have started another thread to seek advice.
Through the several chauvinistic comments, perhaps they are intentionally humourous, i am getting some advice that may help me where I am right now.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 00:56:28

Go away

bitbewildered Thu 11-Oct-12 01:08:36

Op, before the minor hijacking, I was going to say how I hope you are soon free of your fucknugget, and wish you good things! Better late than never!

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 01:10:43

Thank you :-) xx

bitbewildered Thu 11-Oct-12 01:14:01

No worries. Are you ok? I feel a bit queasy at the recent turn things have taken!

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 01:17:28

I've been better.... yanno ,I'm sure I used to be married to that guy ,lol.... I don't feel queasy at all...he's some poor cows hubby stalking her mn.. nothing more.

bitbewildered Thu 11-Oct-12 01:22:06

Horrible. That is NOT ok. sad

I think you're being very, like, stoic, about it!

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 01:23:15

What the abuse...? no worries.. hide like a rhino ;)

bitbewildered Thu 11-Oct-12 01:27:14

smile glad to hear it.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 01:28:40

He's laughing up his sleeve at the drama.... total asshat ... all dv men threaten suicide , but you know what? its the ones who never say a word who actually do it.....

bitbewildered Thu 11-Oct-12 01:32:04

I'm just astonished. I've never lived with DV, and apparently have a very low bollocks threshold.

shock <--- me, being bewildered!

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 01:35:06

Lol... its textbook stuff , "my wife is hurting me by being on here..meh I want to break things cos I'm a victim"... etc... he's a tit .. period

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 01:35:55

I hope mn get his isp address and get the police round to shut his drama down... tbh

bitbewildered Thu 11-Oct-12 01:40:35

Well, he's vanished!

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 01:42:22

Back under his bridge , like a good little troll .....I wouldnt fret , there's many thousands like him online....

bitbewildered Thu 11-Oct-12 01:43:12

grin

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 10:37:55

He's announced hes going to phone me tonight as he's "not coping either" yet another cooked up drama from bloody nothing just because I didnt want to validate his penis so therefore the entire evening of non sexual intimacy meant nothing...

schobe Thu 11-Oct-12 11:30:14

Are you still with him? Can you not just tell him to get to fuck?

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 11:31:49

I haven't seen or spoken to him since it blew again...I feel wretched , horribly hurt and severely depressed...couldnt even get up this morning.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 11:44:31

Recently , I'd come to trust I was finally in the right relationship , the one that would go the distance ,I knew the sex thing would cause us problems again at some point , but we are good at talking , incredibly close...but not as close as I thought clearly , if he can hurt me like this deliberately... I cant even keep anything down , the kids are off school with a "virus" I've never felt so fucking pointless , everything I touch turns to shit.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 11:45:38

Never felt so acutely alone in my life.

schobe Thu 11-Oct-12 11:52:00

Ah ok, you sounded a little more detached earlier in the thread, but I can see you're struggling with this now.

I have to agree with earlier posters that the bad stuff sounds extremely ominous regardless of all the good stuff.

I think a clean break would be in your best interests, but I know how easy that is to say.

Keep posting on here then you'll never be really alone!

You're not alone, littleblue - I'm sitting here in my PJs at 6.30am in a grey cold New Jersey morning, wishing you all the good things in the world.

You don't need to talk to him. You don't need to do all the dramatic finger pointing and bollocks. You just need to send him a "Yeah, this isn't working for me. I think we should call it a day. Thanks for the good times." text and start thinking about life after the breakup.

breakups are shit, but the grief doesn't last for ever. And everything you touch manifestly does NOT turn to shit, else you wouldn't be a responsible adult with a life, holding a family together, and managing not to hump the furniture like an unfixed puppy I prescribe you a phone call to a girlfriend, and some good sofa-time with your sick children. You'll be okay, he wasn't a good'un but that doesn't mean there aren't any, or you'll never meet one.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 11:54:32

I was detached earlier because I was drinking and had taken diazepam , Ive opened a thread in mental health as I am really struggling sad

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 11:55:55

Thank you , even in tears im smiling at the unfixed puppy !

schobe Thu 11-Oct-12 11:59:37

I do really understand. I do that detachment thing followed closely by complete breakdown. It's v crap. Agreed - I would far rather be you than the unfixed puppy.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 12:09:18

I don't understand the madness that takes hold of him when he does this... he seems to think that his intense sexual behaviour is charming in a rogueish kinda way.... that I should be flattered he wants to bounce up and down on me all the bloody time , and when he feels rejected , suddenly everything we have shared OUT of bed is analysed and held as negative... its shit.

Littleblue, lovey, forget about the arsepigeon. He's not a nice person. He wouldn't be a nice person even if he didn't have depression or nobody-worships-me-enough or whatever self-diagnosed Ishoo he's trying to dump on you. So let him sort his own shit out and just cut him right out of your life.
WHile there are plenty of nice men out there, it's not essential or compulsory to have one around, and you'll be a lot better off building a solo life for the time being while you get yourself strong and happy. You will start feeling better soon. For one thing, you no longer have this horrible man waving his cock at you and battering your self-respect on purpose.

schobe Thu 11-Oct-12 12:18:40

A bunting of red flags.

Can you try to stop thinking about him and what he does/why he does it and focus on yourself? Can you get out and do something for a treat? A coffee and cake in a cafe?

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 12:23:07

I'm going to take my dogs down to the river , get some air and pick myself up off the floor , I'm even driving myself mad tbh ... I might get creative and knock up some red bunting....festoon the whole sodding house in it , lol... hey , thats a business idea , right there.... could embroider key words that relationship addicts like me need reminding of ! smile

yes yes yes dog to the river! I've had tea and toast now and my own dog is bouncing, demanding a trip to the woods. She fell in the stream last week and had to scramble out then be hosed down when she got home. very undignified, she looked most put out. grin

Look after yourself, LB - breakups are shit but NOT a diagnosis of you, your life, your future or your abilities. Give no more thought to the unfixed puppy, he HAS harmed your self-respect and self-esteem, so give yourself time to heal.

izzyizin Thu 11-Oct-12 13:11:54

You really have got to stop wearing those 'fuck me' boots, haven't you? grin

We all have shit days when we see the b&w negative rather than the glorious technicolour, and it's on those days that we need to be exceptionally kind to ourselves and hold on to the thought that if we don't have down times, we can't appreciate all of the good times - of which I have no doubt you've had many and will have many, many, more.

It's always a bummer when we think we've met a like-minded guy to court and spark with only to discover they're a twat of the first water. We tend to needlessly beat ourselves up for making an appalling error of judgement when the fact is they've misjudged us.

Sing hallelujah, honey - in treating you as a human mattress this twat's revealed his true colours sooner rather than later and that's always a bonus.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Thu 11-Oct-12 13:39:56

Im a bit confused. That jm8997 fella came along said he was also having relationship problems, said he wants to kill himself and then got absolutely roasted alive! In fact in seems people were really fucking nasty to him!

Am i missing something. Genuinely confused! confused < see, a confused face.

BigBroomstickBIWI Thu 11-Oct-12 13:48:31

He came along and plonked himself onto someone else's very sensitive thread, with a post that was all about him. When it was suggested he should post elsewhere, he was immediately on the defensive and started talking about committing suicide.

We have had a number of cases of partners/husbands of MNetters coming here and trying to continue their abuse of them. Given what this thread was about, it raised many suspicions for many of us.

And despite the advice he was given to post in mental health, that was ignored.

You can't always take posts on here at face value. Sometimes there is another, more sinister motive behind them.

bitbewildered Thu 11-Oct-12 13:49:37

fuckadoodlepoopoo perhaps OP would rather this thread wasn't hijacked a second time, even by proxy.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Thu 11-Oct-12 14:00:44

Lots of other people spoke about their similar experiences too, they weren't roasted. It might not be the best place to mention that if wants to kill himself but whatever happened to empathy and compassion? There was none whatsoever shown to him except for hq intervening.

There was no particular reason to think he was the ops ex either.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 14:02:41

No its fine... having already been hijacked , its part of the conversation and I know several folk were genuinely concerned for his safety.... It tickled me his twitter apparently gave his full name and address , wonder if anyone passed it on to the police as he threatened suicide yet was merrily tweeting today....

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 14:03:45

He was trolling and abusive , thats why he got roasted.... behaviour and fakery like that doesnt beget kindness tbh

Heleninahandcart Thu 11-Oct-12 14:15:10

We tend to needlessly beat ourselves up for making an appalling error of judgement when the fact is they've misjudged us. This.

Littleblue, this does look like the classic case of your ex being such an obviously abusive bastard that your current bf Mr Less Obvious Bastard almost seemed reasonable by comparison. Add that to the damage your ex did to your self esteem it is not surprising you doubted your own judgement. Although it might not feel like it now, you have actually done really well in setting out your stall with this man. It is his shame that he chose not to respect them.

Apty Thu 11-Oct-12 14:16:10

Well done for facing this and realising how damaging it is for you.

I've just ended my relationship for similar reasons - I do think that if you've had experiences before that have been really awful, you automatically think that it must be you, it can't be them, AGAIN, can it? I can't imagine getting into another relationship, which makes me sad but how do you negotiate all this stuff, it seems impossible.

reallysilly Thu 11-Oct-12 14:50:14

Littleblue, you are so admirable. You can recognise the red flags, you are going to get out of this situation.

Like you, I feel like I'm in it and you've made me realise that what my dh is doing is not normal. He does everything yours does.

Mine is sulking with me today because I don't kiss him with passion all the time. My dh wants to proper snog with me too, very very often and I just don't feel it except like you when I'm in the mood for something else.

But I've been with my dh for 12 years and we have 2 dc. I know how hard break ups are, and I know you're not in a good place right now, but I also feel that you can make a clean break from your dp and never look back. I wish I had realised what my dh was like 6 months into the relationship.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 15:38:41

To me , and obviously most of us on here.. full on snogging is sexual , part of lovemaking , not..as in my case... while I am cooking the kids tea , walking the dogs , leaving a restaurant in front of friends...its another form of sexual penetration , the tongue stuff , its also a stamp of ownership imho... Have you had relate counselling RS..? and yes , I think you are entirely right Helen and Apty... He's chatting away to his friends on his Fb publically , quite coldly happy that we are to have a convo later where he gets to tell me how selfish I am being , even though he knows how severe my depression is , I have been put on the naughty step.... well he can fuck right off , he's forgotten who he is dealing with tbh...

Anniegetyourgun Thu 11-Oct-12 15:42:14

Do you plan to tell him you're not in the mood for talking tonight so he isn't invited round? You're not obliged to listen to a load of blaming 'n' shit, least of all in your own home.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 15:44:58

I will tell him in no uncertain terms that I have nothing to say as his brand of mindfuck makes me ill , and he needs help... and I will return his belongings , and collect mine when I feel able...

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 15:46:55

I had a lovely walk with my dogs... I intend to focus on my family , work and studies... I clearly attract trainwrecks , they say like attracts like... so I am redflagging myself.. I have daughters , I am not currently happy with the example I am setting my children...

LemonDrizzled Thu 11-Oct-12 15:58:59

You are being a good mother to your daughters LB, they will grow up with much better boundaries and standards as a result of your soul searching. Pat yourself on the back and have a tiny treat thanks

Heleninahandcart Thu 11-Oct-12 16:03:21

Agree with Annie, you don't need to have him in your own home poking at you either physically or metaphorically. You owe him nothing except maybe his stuff in a bin bag box.

Yes, the snogging in his case is ownership and entitlement. Snogging is a very intimate thing, not for public consumption in front of friends and certainly not in front of your kids in your home.

I am angry on your behalf now how dare he.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 16:07:21

He dares because he feels entitled which in fact..is the basis of all abusive personalities is it not...

Apty Thu 11-Oct-12 16:40:40

My dh did't do the kissing thing, but just become more and more controlling and resentful and entitled about it all. He insisted that it was me in the wrong and when I argued back he just stepped it up. I argued on here that he's empathic and a good father etc etc etc because I couldn't see that I don't have to live with it. It's still very new and I still have doubts about what I'm doing, but it has to be the right decision.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 16:46:43

When I left my exe... about six months later , a very gruelling and dreadful six months that I could never imagine improving.... I went out for a drive one day to settle my poor busted head and I came to a cross roads.... pondering which way to go I had one of the biggest light bulb moments of my life... I could go where I wanted , my life was my own again Have you read Lundy Bancrofts book ... ?

Apty Thu 11-Oct-12 16:54:27

Yes it was that book that made all the difference - i couldn't believe how familiar it all was, I didn't know i was in an abusive relationship, which doesn't even make sense.

He's still very much involved though, it's early days, he's coming over in an hour for the evening, I'm finding it really difficult.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 16:59:23

Mumsnet put me onto that several years ago... and womensaid , I didnt know either.. and I'm clear now , making mistakes still yes , but my roof/bed/home are unsullied , and I don't live on my nerves anymore... despite this recent idiots best efforts to discredit me... if it helps , the nutter exe and I have achieved a very solid working relationship co parenting our children now...took a long time , and mediation , but we agreed that the kids come first , and we need to stfu and concentrate on them... funny , dp resents my exe , cos hes "pissed up his lamp post" .... warning bell....much

reallysilly Thu 11-Oct-12 17:06:47

You're right, that's what it is, entitlement.

At least Littleblue and Apty, you had the courage to leave.

My head's all over the place and I'm dreading dh coming home because I have to face his sulking again. I haven't had counselling. Dh won't go because our problems are "all caused by me". Some of Lundy Bancroft's book resonated, some not. Dh wants me to be like I was in the honeymoon period, but I just can't be. To him, this means that I don't love him...sigh...

You're at the crossroads again Littleblue. I wish you strength.

Apty, at least you've been brave and got out, that's the first step.

Apty Thu 11-Oct-12 17:07:07

It's really good you've got a good co-parenting relationship. I just can't imagine feeling ok. How do you get past what happened? Is it just time? Did he ever acknowledge what he did?

This new dp does sound like he says some ridiculous things and has some vile attitudes.

Apty Thu 11-Oct-12 17:09:19

Thanks reallysilly. I feel like i'm half in and half out atm - still trying to work out what's for the best. I think i know the answer but so much pressure from him, children, families - to put it all back together. I know that time will mean i'll be clearer ( i hope anyway)

Are you wanting to leave?

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 17:13:37

Counselling doesnt work in DV as they don't change... its hard wired , we went through hell for years , he has lived with two other women since , now on his third , and has been arrested during all of his relationships that I now of for harrassment and violent behaviour... this current gf seems to be working for him shes a quiet little mouse with no kids..and they are about to get married !! I have moved on from his behaviour , its not relevant to my life now , and last time we bickered our daughter told us off ! lol , shes not ten yet ! That honeymoon bit is entirely what they all think things should be like.. as for dp , we made love only the other night and even during the act he was like "see how good this is?" trying to make it clear we should be at it like frickin monkeys... idiot

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 17:14:29

What drove me out finally was not wanting him as a fulltime role model for our children....

dp resents my exe , cos hes "pissed up his lamp post"

wot a charmer, eh? quick, PM me his number, I must go and throw my knickers at him like he's a 1960s Tom Jones, for his silvertongued brilliance makes me weak at the knees! ....

... seriously, littleblue you are WELL RID..
You dumped him yet?

reallysilly Thu 11-Oct-12 17:16:13

I'm just confused. Dh is just like Littleblue's dp. We go in waves where if he's "satisfied" things run smoothly, if not, he freezes me and sulks. I know that we'd be better off apart, but I can't work up the courage to do it.
In the end I apologise to him (where I don't feel at fault at all) just to keep the peace and make him be nice to me again. (I feel so pathetic)

How do you actually make the break? Dh will get mad and make it so hard.

reallysilly Thu 11-Oct-12 17:17:28

sorry to hijack, I really just wanted to support you Littleblue. I hope you're ok.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 17:20:20

Recognising the stockholm syndrome elements of such a relationship will help...
'"Why Do You Stay?" Traumatic Bonding And
The Development Of The Stockholm Syndrome in Battered Women

- by Debra Dixon

(verbal, emotional, psychological & online abuse is also BATTERING)

We hear the question, "Why do you stay?" ask of battered women over and over. Most of society tired long ago of the answer, "Because I love him." When a battered woman says "because I love him" she is describing the Stockholm Syndrome in the best way that she can. She knows that she has very strong feelings for him and can only attribute those feelings to love because of a lack of information. These victims do not have the information they need to accurately describe the dynamics involved in the bonding process that occurs with abuse and trauma and therefore attribute their intense feelings the best way that they can - love.

Theories on why battered women stay have ranged from "learned helplessness" to masochism to feminist theory regarding status and resources. While some of these issues (learned helplessness and a lack of resources) can be contributing factors it is time we look at the bond created by severe, prolonged trauma.

Traumatic bonding was first recognized and acknowledged during a hostage incident in Stockholm, Sweden. Authorities were amazed that the hostages refused to cooperate with them and actually saw law enforcement as the villains. What they were witnessing was the hostage's identification with the hostage taker. Authorities were even more shocked when the hostages refused to testify against their captors and one of the women later married him. While hostages may bond after a matter of hours batterers usually have many years with the victims without any interference or intervention.

This bond occurs because the well being of a child, a hostage or a battered woman depends upon the hostage taker or the batterer. If a batterer has total control over her money, safety, peace and happiness then it is in her best interest to keep him happy. This bond is not only in the best interest of the perpetrator but is, at times, in the best interest of the victim and is frequently necessary for her survival. If a hostage, or battered woman, is argumentative and provocative they are more likely to be injured. If a batterer or hostage taker dislikes the victim their likelihood of injury increases.

We often berate the victim for staying in these relationships and can't understand how it happened. A violent, controlling man does not take a woman out and beat her on the first date. We all put on our best face when we initially meet people and batterers are no different. If he took the woman out and beat her on the first date there would be no second date. She has no history or investment in the relationship and wouldn't tolerate it. His taking control of her is a gradual process.

Battered women, hostages and prisoner's of war will share some of the same experiences. Some of these shared experiences are that they are degraded, debilitated, they experience the constant threat of violence, the violence is intermittent, their are occasional indulgences, the captor demonstrates omnipotence, isolation etc...

The dynamics involved in domestic violence can be demonstrated by what's called The Power And Control Wheel by the Domestic Abuse Intervention Project (DAIP). It's interesting because when we compare Bidermans Chart of Coercion by Amnesty International with the Power and Control Wheel they are almost identical. (Bidermans Chart of Coercion is how Amnesty International documented the techniques of the Communist Chinese, KGB, etc. )

There are many types of service providers coming in contact with battered women who are still unaware of why these women stay. These service providers are unable to address the bigger picture due to a lack of information. The inability to address this issue creates many problems. Law enforcement, and much of society, still blames the women for defending their attackers, unaware of the fact that not only is defending the attacker in her best interest but the bond itself reduces her injury. The victims are not given the information they need to deal with the bond they feel and therefore attribute their perplexing feelings to "love." Allowing them, and their children, to continue in traumatic relationships.

While we advise against confrontational behavior we ask that battered women cooperate with law enforcement who can frequently only guarantee her safety for a matter of hours. I am not saying that battered women should not cooperate. I am asking that we rethink our approach to domestic violence based on the fact that a traumatic bond is occurring and that the bond itself must be taken into consideration and dealt with.''

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 17:22:34

I'm ok , the shocks fading... I recognise this gutsick sucker punched shock sensation only too well... and lol at blackcurrants !!!

reallysilly Thu 11-Oct-12 17:36:50

"see how good this is" - My dh says this kind of thing but says he says it because he wants to feel close to me all the time. I don't know if this is the truth or that he just wants sex full stop. I'm so confused! When your dp said it, you knew that it meant you should be at it all the time. Why can't I work it out????

Thanks for the Stockholm syndrome stuff. Very interesting.

Littleblue, do you think your dp will put up a fight when you say it's over?

reallysilly Thu 11-Oct-12 17:37:44

sex all the time, not full stop

piratecat Thu 11-Oct-12 17:39:26

but think, you will only go up from now. yes you will slip down, and feel like you won't get up again, but you will. each step from here will never be exactly repeated in your recovery of this break up.

Each hour into a day.

Let him back in, and you will have to start over when it comes to a head again.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 17:39:59

Its all headfuckery honey... seriously sad I cant always work out the obvious , or I wouldnt still be with this manipulator.... Yes , he will be very hurt , and last time he agreed with me entirely and apologised for the fact I had "fallen for a mental" etc.... but here we are again...and its only 6 months in...

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 17:40:51

You can go to counselling alone btw.... I did. ;)

Apty Thu 11-Oct-12 18:05:57

Also sorry to hijack, but some of this is so familiar. He also did the thing where everything is fine as long as it's going the way he wants it to so i'd end up going along with things just to keep things on an even level. The stockholm thing makes a lot of sense, because feeling real love and affection for him was / is because of absence of bad or scary moods, it's relief more than anything. And that can go on for a while so i think it must be me with the problem as he's fine. I can't get past being raped though, and i think it's because he's never acknowledged it, and convinced me it was either my fault or i imagined it. That doesn't match up with his charming and gentle side that everyone else sees all the time. My family and most of our friends think i'm being really mad atm because i can't communicate the reality of this relationship to people.

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 19:17:36

Ohh , oh lord honey... hes raped you? ok , now listen , www.womensaid.org ,you are not mad .... and you need some professional support... I called my exe Jekyll and Hyde cos he could be full on abusing me.. smile and chat calmly if someone came to the door.... then switch straight back to overt abuse again... and it will not get better... inbox me if you want to talk privately , might be slow to respond as just had flaming screaming row with dp...so a bit wobbly again...

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 19:18:47

ps... this is not your fault.. biggest hug

Apty Thu 11-Oct-12 19:26:48

Thanks littleblue. It's ok, I am getting some support now, going to counselling, although talking about anything but this iykwim! I think I know what I'm doing, but then when he's here and putting pressure on, i get totally confused again. I've got him to move but with the understanding that it's a break rather than permanent - and he's pushing to come home. My children want him to come home too and he's fine atm, as in being totally reasonable all the time. But i know things won't change so have to stay strong. I started a thread in the summer which helped me to come to terms with the fact that yes it was rape but changed name since as he was looking at computer.

I'm sorry you've had a row with your dp, it sounds inevitable that it's going to be difficult now you realise that this is totally unacceptable and that you want something different, stay strong x

littleblue (not to take the focus off Apty, who does indeed deserve a hug) - you're still calling him 'DP' - now, when is he going to be EX-P, considering that he's not actually very nice, and indeed is sexually perstering, borderling assaulting you?

It doesn't matter what he thinks.

Imagine saying that to him. "It doesn't matter what you think. Here are your clothes in a bin bag. Goodbye."

And there is, still, an awful lot of propaganda to the effect that an abusive man is 'romantic', that he 'loves' you and that's why he's slapping you for looking at other men and shoving his dick up your arse while you're asleep.

digerd Thu 11-Oct-12 19:59:20

The majority of men are the same - it's their testosterone. The best type just sulk, the worst become aggressive, if their "needs" are rejected. But he has no idea, as you might respond if he is gentle and loving and carresses you tenderly, but NOT grabbing and groping, and if you fall asleep in his arms, it is a wonderful man who can switch off his surge of testesterone, and replace it with a loving gentle feeling. Not being a man I don't know if that is even possible. I do not know how this problem can be overcome, but some couples get through it. In your case I agree with Mrs Fuzzy.

Offred Thu 11-Oct-12 20:08:54

That's not men you are describing there digerd!angrysad

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 20:46:49

I refer to him as DP , cos whilst discussing DV re EX - P , I find adding a more recent EX - P into the conversation hard to maintain... I have sent him a blistering email re boundaries , sexual harrassment and entitlement... along with the suggestion that he seeks help...

Littleblue Thu 11-Oct-12 20:55:19

Christ im tired... right down to the DNA

well done, littleblue well done.

Go to bed! I went to bed at 9pm last night, it was BLOODY BRILLIANT! Thinking about doing it again tonight. Don't care if other people have a life, I have a body-pillow! smile

reallysilly Thu 11-Oct-12 21:33:50

But will that email work? Will he just accept it and know that it's over if that's how you feel? I know if I sent that to my dh, he would laugh at me and not take it seriously at all. I know because I've tried it before. He believes he's always right.

If I try that now, he will say that he gropes me as a loving gesture. That he wants sex with me very very often to feel close to me and the snogging very very often is because he thinks I'm irresistable and because he loves me. I've heard it all before.

Littleblue I am very curious to know how he responds. Maybe your DP is emotionally more mature if he's ready to accept what you say?

I know your tiredness, I'm right there with you. I know the exhaustion of trying. I read on another thread about knowing when you're ready to call it quits - it's when you don't want to try any more. I'm just too tired to try any more.

GOod idea to tell him off by email. But you did also include the information that he's dumped, didn't you?

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 07:55:33

signing off for a bit , feel like im cracking up

reallysilly Fri 12-Oct-12 12:22:19

Littleblue, I hope you feel better soon. I hope you have some RL support. x

just sending you my support, littleblue x

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 12:48:23

Dp was my rl support tbh... but thats proved false as its conditional , clearly.. teary , but also feel my fuck you button resetting itself... thanks folks , oh and the dad the pm'd me ? Don't bother.... thanks , not interested in hearing that I have got it wrong from another oversexed sexpest of a man...we are not fucktoys sunshine , we are human beings.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Fri 12-Oct-12 13:00:21

What did he say littleblue?

Offred Fri 12-Oct-12 13:03:42

Saddadgladdad? He pm'd me too with an obnoxious post telling me I wanted to have sex with people who didn't want it with me because everyone did and that I didn't mean what I said. Why not post on the thread saddad? You make yourself look like a predator...

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:11:43

Yep , that was him... lol , just another bloody stalky type..apparently its normal to harass your partner for sex 24/7 and the problem is mine... twat

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:12:46

He doesnt post on the thread cos he will get torn to shreds....

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:13:46

''>to me it should be clear by then?!
Hi, I'm a man and you really should just say "no" you have to be really clear and use words! (You may well have said "no", but you don't actually say it in your post.)

BTW he's not obsessed with sex, he's just a man. I want sex all the time as well if I'm near my DW...''

Offred Fri 12-Oct-12 13:17:52

At least others who thought that actually had the confidence in themselves and their beliefs to post publicly rather than trying to secretly manipulate someone who might be extremely vulnerable, jeez, glad you've got your fuck off hat on littleblue.

Offred Fri 12-Oct-12 13:19:59

From: saddadgladdad
To: Offred
Subject: why does he want to have sex with you when you don
Date: Fri 12-Oct-12 06:18:53
why does he want to have sex with you when you don't want it?
Silly question. I'm sure you want sex with loads of people who don't want sex with you. I certainly do

lol
PS I guess you ment somthing along the lines of "Why does he keep asking ..."

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:20:04

thinks monkey spankers need adding to more than one christmas list tbh...

Offred Fri 12-Oct-12 13:20:55

I said:
From: Offred
To: saddadgladdad
Subject: Re: why does he want to have sex with you when you see original
Date: Fri 12-Oct-12 06:42:51
No I meant "why does he want to have sex with you when you don't want it?" In the context of the conversation that means why is he still trying after you have already made it clear you dont consent. Are you aware of the law on consent? You have to ascertain it, it is not "she didn't say no". You can't just keep going even though someone is uncomfortable that's sexual assault or rape depending on how far you go. I don't ever want to have sex with people who don't want it no.

Offred Fri 12-Oct-12 13:27:48

Consent from the cps:

"Reasonable belief in consent
In the offences of rape, assault by penetration, sexual assault and causing a person to engage in sexual activity without consent, a person (A) is guilty of an offence if (s)he:

Acts intentionally;
(B) does not consent to the act; and
(A) does not reasonably believe that B consents.
Deciding whether a belief is reasonable is to be determined having regard to all the circumstances, including any steps A has taken to ascertain whether B consents (subsection (2) of sections 1-4). It is likely that this will include a defendant's attributes, such as disability or extreme youth, but not if (s)he has any particular fetishes.

This is a major change in the law and the Act abolishes the Morgan defence of a genuine though unreasonably mistaken belief as to the consent of the complainant. It means that the defendant (A) has the responsibility to ensure that (B) consents to the sexual activity at the time in question. It will be important for the police to ask the offender in interview what steps (s)he took to satisfy him or herself that the complainant consented in order to show his or her state of mind at the time.

The test of reasonable belief is a subjective test with an objective element. The best way of dealing with this issue is to ask two questions:

(i) Did the defendant believe the complainant consented? This relates to his or her personal capacity to evaluate consent (the subjective element of the test).

(ii) If so, did the defendant reasonably believe it? It will be for the jury to decide if his or her belief was reasonable (the objective element).

Evidential presumptions (section 75)
If the defendant did the relevant act, as defined in section 77 (the sexual activity within sections 1-4), and the circumstances specified in subsection (2) exist and the defendant knew they existed, then the complainant is to be taken not to have consented. These circumstances are:

(a) Any person used/threatened violence against the complainant at the time of the act or immediately before the first sexual activity began;

(b) Any person caused the complainant to fear at the time of the act or immediately before the first sexual act, that violence was being used/would be used immediately against another person;

(c) The complainant was, and the defendant was not, unlawfully detained at the time;

(d) The complainant was asleep or otherwise unconscious at the time;

(e) The complainant was unable to communicate consent to the defendant because of their physical disability e.g. where a complainant is unable to communicate verbally or to nod or shake their head.

(f) Any person administers or causes the complainant to take a substance, without the complainant's consent, which was capable of causing or enabling the complainant to be stupefied or overpowered at the time of the relevant act.

Evidential presumptions - key points:
The defendant has to know that one of the circumstances existed;

The requirement only is that any one circumstance needs to be proved, even though there may be more than one circumstance that existed;
The threat of/actual violence in (a) and (b) need not come from the defendant;
The element in (a) and (b) is one of immediate violence. This is not defined but the courts may define it in a similar way as under the Public Order Act 1986 i.e. not meaning instantaneous violence, but only a relatively short time interval between the act which is threatening and the violence R v Horseferry Road Magistrates' Court ex p. Siadatan [1991] 1 QB 280.
If any one of the presumptions is proved, then the complainant is deemed not to have consented. The Act imposes an evidential burden on the defendant to adduce sufficient evidence to raise an issue that the complainant consented and whether or not the defendant reasonably believed the complainant consented. The question whether the defendant adduces sufficient evidence to raise an issue to be left to a jury is a matter for the judge. The issue should be left to a jury where the evidence, if accepted, raises a prima facie case. Once the defendant has done this, it will be for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that the complainant did not consent and that the defendant did not reasonably believe the complainant consented."

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:29:53

Another Mr Entitlement ... with no sense of respect or boundaries..... spoke to my idiot earlier , he's clearly hung up on the earlier "sexy talk" etc in our relationship.... can't seem to grasp that evaporated alongside the TRUST last time he kicked off like a spoilt child.... I envy my lesbian friends sometimes...

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:31:36

Ohh... yes , have woken to being fondled after a heavy nights drinking.... thats a big no in this context too.... sorry chaps , women don't like being assaulted.. simple as that

fuckadoodlepoopoo Fri 12-Oct-12 13:35:37

Bloody hell!

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:38:29

points various men in direction of sexshop and blowups dolls

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:38:56

In the corner with your noopy chaps.. grin

reallysilly Fri 12-Oct-12 13:47:18

It's men like these who have messed my head up and made me think there was something wrong with me.

Littleblue you sound strong. I hope you get your message across to this man. And definitely yes to sending these men to the sexshops for their blowup dolls.

What a nerve for him to touch you in that way, how dare he! I want to boot him out for you. Grrr

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:52:20

I have a high sex drive... this is where hes hung up , cos women dont get horny when the wind changes like men do... scuse my crudity... but the whole rutting thing is for Teenagers , Jack Russells....and Farms , if you retain your womans love and respect , and trust , its fine.... soon as you start fucking with her head? sahara

BigBroomstickBIWI Fri 12-Oct-12 13:55:50

I hope those of you who have been receiving these PMs have reported them to MNHQ?

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 13:59:18

Yup ;)

Helltotheno Fri 12-Oct-12 14:19:27

So you're over with this guy now LittleBlue? All done and dusted? How did he react?

Offred Fri 12-Oct-12 14:33:11

I don't know HQ would be bothered. Last time they just said block and they like people to sort things out between themselves.

Anniegetyourgun Fri 12-Oct-12 14:43:10

Oh, I've heard a few horror stories about lesbian relationships too, so I wouldn't be too envious of your friends! The problems may be different (no built-in device to prod you with in the night and no possibility of making you pregnant, to name but two) but women can make just as much of a nuisance of themselves if they've a mind. Just look at all the toxic mothers, MILs, SILs, Bridezillas and other friends and relatives from hell on here, even if you don't have any in your own life, and ponder: most of these dreadful women have partners too, the poor saps.

Anniegetyourgun Fri 12-Oct-12 14:49:47

And reallysilly, consider this: if one persists in giving unwanted attention, is that really love? Isn't love about putting the other person's wants/needs before your own? If you were found hugging your baby while it howled its eyes out, instead of attending to what it really wanted, would SS accept the excuse that you loved it so much you just had to keep holding it? Would the RSPCA, if you treated a household pet that way? "I love you so much that I... won't listen to a word you say unless it agrees with what I personally want at that moment" doesn't quite work, does it? The word he is actually looking for is lust, not love, and it's power-based, not affection-based. He wants, he wants, he wants. Therefore he must have. And you? You're just the object of his wanting, not a human being with rights and wishes of your own. I don't call that love; do you, honestly?

And don't let's even start on the concept of respect at this point.

Damn right, Annie - someone who doesn't respect your boundaries doesn't really think you're that important. And therefore doesn't really love you.

Apty Fri 12-Oct-12 15:20:35

Blackcurrants that sounds so simple and obvious, but it's awful how you can lose sight of it so easily, and it's absolutely true. I think I need to write that down and keep it in my pocket.

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 16:54:58

I'm really struggling to get my head around all of this atm... I know the sucker punch feeling when you have had your head messed with , I just want to sleep...

reallysilly Fri 12-Oct-12 17:00:29

Yes, it's lust. You're right Annie.(bit of a lightbulb moment for me, thank you!) It's hard to feel good about myself as a woman right now.

Littleblue you can get out easily, you don't have any dc with your "d"p. You have the chance to be with someone who respects you.

reallysilly Fri 12-Oct-12 17:01:50

You'll get your strength back Littleblue, I'm sure you will.

piratecat Fri 12-Oct-12 17:47:56

then sleep if you can. you need it. nurture your 'self'. allow your self whatever it needs.

we owe it to ourselves to nurture ourselves. who the hell else will. then we nurture our babies. xx

BibiBlocksberg Fri 12-Oct-12 18:50:01

That's an excellent way of putting it Annie, really crystilises things.

Strangely it was the ex's inability to put the cats needs ahead of his own which really helped me to see he was thoroughly incapable of putting any creatures needs above his own (after the excellent advice on MN of course)

No matter what, his wants and 'needs' came first even when faced with a pet ready to chew its own leg off in desperation for its dinner.

Oh no, not until Benny Hill had had his cup of tea and two hours of playstation.

Looking back it really was like living in a bad comedy sketch - I quickly learned not to reach for things on high shelves as that would signal a good old breast groping was in order or bending down with my butt in the air (bend ze knees was the order of the day for many years)

Rambling on here, tsk, Friday night and the first glass of wine are at fault smile

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 18:58:08

Oh god... 'Benny HIll' ..perfection , he only needs a hankie on his head... he turned up the other night and snuggled into me ,which was nice enough until a hand wandered up and gave my breast a very firm squeeze , bloody hurt and I flinched , he was all injured innocence until I asked him if he'd like it if someone suddenly gave one of his nads a rough squeeze when he wasnt expecting it...

cannotseeaway Fri 12-Oct-12 19:25:08

I really don't want to hijack but Fuck Fuck Fuck this is all so depressingly familiar. I used to joke years ago with a friend that living in my house was like living in a never-ending episode of Benny Hill. I am not laughing now.

Strength and hugs to you littleblue, and also you other women going through the same. I have learnt from Mumsnet now this is not acceptable. Thank God.

BibiBlocksberg Fri 12-Oct-12 19:32:15

Yep, i used to hear the theme music to Benny Hill in my head as I would literally scurry around our tiny house trying to escape the never ending advances.

Since its the weekend I've just remembered the Saturday morning duvet lift (this was performed every week without fail)

This involved him lifting up the duvet (while i was trying to just put his cup of tea down and escape again) followed by pointing at his 'morning glory' and asking if seeing that made me horny.

To think i used to feel guilty for thinking 'no, it doesn't WTF?' and blaming myself for not being instantly turned on.

I used to ask him often how he would feel if I just grabbed him roughly by the balls OP and the answer was always 'I'd love it'

Sadly, i think he was telling the truth there - I mean, what are you meant to say back to that?

Anniegetyourgun Fri 12-Oct-12 19:36:39

I'd say you weren't gripping hard enough [evil]

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 19:39:14

Sorry... trying not to laugh , male genitalia in its erect state looks like an angry plucked turkey... I have male friends who say the same... you should have returned with a jug of hot gravy and dumped it on the whole shebang...inc his spuds :D and welcome women hijackers , the sexed up dads can sod off..unless they are actually going to LEARN something !! (doubtful) wow... just wow I had a relationship for 18 months before after the dv one... He got obsessed too , used to throw the duvet back , grip his dick , and look at it , and up at me with eyes I can only describe as like shreks cat.... theres me with a mug of coffee and the paper "what??" (lmao)

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 19:39:39

LOL @ Annie !!!!!

BibiBlocksberg Fri 12-Oct-12 19:52:19

Bloody hell PMSL here @ angry plucked turkey, not gripping hard enough and the cat from Shrek grin

Ex actually presented me with a painting of puss in boots out of the blue one day. I'll never be able to look at it (stuffed out of sight at the top of the wardrobe as soon as he left) ever again!

The thing that pisses me off the most is that the constant groping and eventual raping (first time I've typed that ugly word but that's what it was a lot of time) left me feeling like a 'frigid' person who wasn't interested in affection or sex when nothing was further from the truth.

cannotseeaway Fri 12-Oct-12 19:52:40

Reading this I feel normal for the first time in years, no joke. I have always felt like a sexual freak for being turned off by my DPs daily requests for a "willy squeeze".

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 19:57:08

I reckon these guys should write for hallmark... its the poetry and sensitivity that gets me... whats the highlight of their favourite film? Id wager it was The Money Shot....

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 19:58:33

If only they realised that a neck kiss (and doing the dishes first) were a far greater aphrodisiac than grabbing your parts , or grabbing your hand and placing it on theirs... sighs

cannotseeaway Fri 12-Oct-12 19:58:36

Xpost Bibi, I am so sorry that you were made to feel that way, I know exactly what you mean. My DP always said he didn't want sex with me if I wasn't up for it, but he felt perfectly able to grope me and ask for it again and again and again. So confusing.

I am so sorry you were raped, I dont know what else to say sad

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 20:01:57

Oh and re rape..? forcing yourself on your partner , using coercion..yes , its rape...... so many men still feel entitled to help themselves to their partners bodies... fuckers

BibiBlocksberg Fri 12-Oct-12 20:04:51

Oh no, I didn't use the r word to garner sympathy on someone else's thread.

MN made me realise that's what it was (long after the relationship ended) and I'm saying it out loud now because I'm finally really grasping that it's not my shame any longer and never was. Feels good!

smile writing for hallmark - yes to that! My friends and I still get a lot of laughs out of the classic foreplay line 'can I just stick it in?' Phwoar! Yeah, go on then you old charmer.

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 20:06:38

Oooh... melts can I have his number? grin

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 20:08:32

http://www.monkeyspanker.co.uk/ was amazed when dp turned up recently chuffed to bits cos the cockrings were on sale in the chemist , he bought 6... facepalms

cannotseeaway Fri 12-Oct-12 20:11:45

grin grin

discrete Fri 12-Oct-12 20:26:28

Just butting in briefly to reassure all those who wonder whether all men are like this....I told dh about this thread and another one and he said 'Bloody hell. Now that's put me off sex for a week, I'd be too worried about being like one of those dicks!'

Normal men are out there. They want sex as a loving and reciprocal part of a healthy relationship, not as an entitlement.

Dh and I both enjoy sex, and both have the ability to switch off instantly if the other says sorry, not tonight.

That's normal.

BibiBlocksberg Fri 12-Oct-12 20:31:16

SIX? <collapses in shock at the audacity>

I just remembered storming out on the ex in the middle of a blowjob that he'd whined and guilted me for.

Well, he was just lying there like a corpse, eyes closed and not a sound and I got so angry at the fuckers selfishness I had to get away.

Stomped round the block to come back about 15 mins later to find him STILL naked in the same position on the bed (albeit flacid) waiting for act 2!

Quite a sense of entitlement me thinks smile

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 20:33:02

Its a timely reminder... I haven't yet fully binned dp yet , no...I'm a sod for thinking things thru and feeling right with a decision , whatever you may think of that... I havent seen him , but I have told him I don't see a way past this.. his response was to remind me of all the sexy talk from when we first got together and that he had been so thrilled to finally find someone with a sex drive that matched his... aah , so the fact that I am horribly hurt and upset at your behaviour means bloody nothing then..clearly... says it all doesn't it , and yes I know... ducks

cannotseeaway Fri 12-Oct-12 20:38:30

Christ littleblue the man has the skin of a rhino and it is pretty obvious just from you last post he is never going to see what a twunt he has been. You will feel so much better once you dump him.

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 20:41:46

He got it last time... and said he would fully understand if I never saw him again..etc , I know its over , no worries... its just reconciling myself to the hurt im struggling with... he and i have been intensely close all along , this stuff only raised its head at intervals.. but clearly the rots there , and its done , im not being a wimp , just trying to be measured about how I deal with it...

Oh <puke>! What an absolute tool he sounds. SO, no apology, no consideration, no understanding of the possibility of compromising, just an attempt to make you feel bad and guilty for not actually being that thrilled at having a cock randomly shoved up you.

I do actually think that, with a lot of these knobs, it isn't actually sex they want ie they are not in desperate need of an orgasm. What they are getting pleasure from is seeing you angry, confused, embarrassed, guilty and afraid.

cannotseeaway Fri 12-Oct-12 20:46:10

You are not a wimp at all. It is a difficult thing to do and it was only a couple of days ago he was still your DP.

cannotseeaway Fri 12-Oct-12 20:53:50

Just whatever you do don't let him wheedle his way back in, cock in hand

BibiBlocksberg Fri 12-Oct-12 20:58:43

Nothing could be further from the 'wimp' word here!

You're doing incredibly well OP and you sound very switched on to his tricks. It's never an instant leap from the realisation of what's happening to you to 'get out of my life'

It all takes time to 'marinade' and you will get to the point of doing what's right for you when you're ready (soon by the sounds of things)

SolidGoldBrass - you were and are instrumental in helping me realise what's really been happening and I always nod along to your posts, thank you.

Agree now about the control and inducing anger,fear, embarrassment and all the rest of it.

BibiBlocksberg Fri 12-Oct-12 21:02:01

cannotseeaway - that also made me laugh - a poster on my thread when I was still in the thick of it advised me to get my key back/change the locks once ex had gone.

Saying 'you don't want to come back from work to find him on your couch, cock in hand' smile

That was a very action encouraging thought for me!

cannotseeaway Fri 12-Oct-12 21:13:31

If the mental image of your "d"p with his cock in his hand makes you want to change the locks you can be pretty sure it's over. grin

Littleblue Fri 12-Oct-12 21:23:39

He's apologetic hes hurt me again... he clearly has issues with what constitutes love I saw this earlier , I suspect its utterly wasted on him however.. Intimacy is a Complex Dance
In intimate relationships we are continually taking steps back and forth. We move toward someone, or away from them, based on what is going on inside of us, circumstances outside of us, and what is going on between us. As we go through this series of adjustments, the relationship develops a tempo. When we focus on what we are doing and what is around us, the dance can be beautiful and flowing, one that moves gracefully with us through our lives.''

I seem to fall for the wrong guy every time.... because I am highly sexed they seem to sense it on me... and Im always quick to see the best in people... im in my forties now and have been thru hell with men all my life.... sgb might recall me in a previous name , tyedye , mebbe not , its been a while , but im sure we have shared threads before.... and yes , were he to come onto me now Id recoil... he's wrecked it sad

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 01:00:14

''I'm in, tired and head is whizzing so I'm going to go off comms and crash for a bit. If I try and talk now I'll just get excited again, don't want to browbeat you so I'll be in touch tomorrow and we can talk properly. Hope you get some sleep and talk soon'' ....... thats what I get , while he goes and gets stoned and feels sorry for himself....... he confessed he plied me with wine the other night so i'd be more likely to fuck , and apparently , the depth of my hurt is hard for him to handle !!!!!! oh and his "excited"? is he will shout at me again for everything I am getting wrong in how i run MY life and how stressfull he finds it....

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 01:03:16

I know , this is a dv nightmare in the making.. I will go and deliver his belongings tomos and remove mine.... had enough of tears and feeling destroyed.

Aww, Littleblue <big hug> (sorry everyone). There is nothing wrong with wanting to have a sex life, and this man;s shit is not your fault. Sometimes it almost seems like the sort of whiny, entitled, clammy bellends do more damage than the shouty furniture-smashing ones, because you almost feel foolish for minding how horrible they make you feel.

And Bibi: Hiya! <waves> I do remember you and Captain Crap... you are so well shot of him.

Lueji Sat 13-Oct-12 01:20:04

I have only now read this thread and it made me shiver at some points, as it was so similar to ex.
But you have only been with him 6 months and he's already behaving like this.

Hugs and hoping the dumping goes well.

You mentioned something about feeling alone, but there's nothing worse than being in the wrong company, as you well know. sad

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 01:23:57

Why in gods name i didnt see his liberal use of lusty emoticons in IM as a huge warning defies me.... and yes , his damage is more subtle that than the overtly abusive exe , when i confronted him on his silent treatment , he tried to plead that he found my back problems frustrating ,( he treats me) he didnt quite dare tell me I should have shed some weight by now , but thats where his mind was going.... he did , when shot down in flames , say that the quickest way to make him miserable was to purse my mouth when he tried to kiss me... fucks sake... i actually feel sick tbh

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 01:27:02

Thanks lueji , its been a fucking awful week , when id convinced myself I'd found the right relationship.... how wrong can you be , eh sad

mrsfuzzy Sat 13-Oct-12 10:57:37

littleblue,you are sorting it out, so now put the past behind you you've done well to get to this point, don't debate anymore about it ,move forward i wish you all the best for the future and have a happy life.

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 11:22:47

I know.. I got maudlin drunk last night , kinda needed to indulge the self pity and hurt... Im returning his belongings and closing the door on it today... I intend to suggest to him that an adult contact site would be more appropriate if he only wants a sexually based relationship...

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 11:23:05

and thanks... ;)

piratecat Sat 13-Oct-12 11:25:34

good luck today. thinking of you.x

BigBroomstickBIWI Sat 13-Oct-12 11:28:03

Good luck, Littleblue.

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 11:43:53

Thanks , feel sick sad

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 11:46:30

....... I won't miss being called "Baby" tho , or his "sweetie" .... pukes

[vom] let this charmer go free to pester delight some other poor mug woman! And DH was horrified by this thread too. I.think SGB nailed it.

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 13:32:33

He's scared to talk today because we may end up hating/hurting each other... stable door/ bolted methinks... If he continues to be evasive , I will just pile over there.

BigBroomstickBIWI Sat 13-Oct-12 14:17:55

What are you waiting for? You have told him it's finished, haven't you?

Anniegetyourgun Sat 13-Oct-12 14:29:56

I think you should consider his feelings, kindly soul that you are. In order to spare him the hurt of seeing you and not being able to fuck you you should collect all his things and leave them tidily outside the door.

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 16:29:56

I would like my own clobber back tbh... ;)

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 20:41:24

Dealt with.

piratecat Sat 13-Oct-12 20:53:23

wow are you ok blue

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 21:05:44

kinda painfully relieved....we agreed actually that it was a trainwreck..

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 21:06:11

he admitted he just needs to leave me alone...

piratecat Sat 13-Oct-12 21:07:24

what totally, no more being in contact alone?

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 21:20:33

Yep , blocked..... done

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 21:21:31

Hes gonna fetch his stuff and drop mine of so we dont have to see each other...at my behest

Busybusybust Sat 13-Oct-12 21:22:51

Nice one Blue - well done. Onwards and upwards!

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 21:31:59

Knowing somethings the right decision doesnt stop you feeling flayed tho does it... but enough self pity , will take my dogs out tomos and shake this off... reconnect with me

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Sat 13-Oct-12 21:37:58

Great move, lb

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 21:48:59

thanks motherfucker...lol

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Sat 13-Oct-12 21:54:08

wink

cannotseeaway Sat 13-Oct-12 22:01:16

Hope it went ok littleblue

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 22:03:01

It was horrible tbh

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Sat 13-Oct-12 22:11:17

Are you ok, love?

piratecat Sat 13-Oct-12 22:15:31

did you meet up somewhere neutral. did he say much.

BibiBlocksberg Sat 13-Oct-12 22:35:33

Not surprised you feel horrible - what you've achieved today usually does feel hideous especially in the immediate aftermath.

Waving Pom Poms here for you and a quote from the late great Bill Hicks springs to mind - 'it's a piece a shit, walk away'

Hoping you'll start to feel better soon as you continue to walk away x

Littleblue Sat 13-Oct-12 22:52:54

It was all on the phone.... he made it worse by agreeing with me tbh... think hes thinking maybe in a few weeks the picture will look brighter.. so I blocked him... Im due to exchange stuff with him tomos , so we draw that line.... on the scale of horrible men? hes on the entitled , baffled , screwed up but wants to be a better person scale.... thats not me softening , its me grieving for what we could have been..... hes mildly disabled btw , it never mattered to me , but it might have been a part of what shaped the man he became.... I miss him terribly , but its done.... he damn near killed me with his crap....

It does feel awful, doesn't it? A good clean pain, though, scouring the infection out of the wound. Not the simmering resentment pain that would have killed the relationship anyway.

Onwards and upwards! Take good care of yourself, okay? Eating reasonably well, getting enough sleep, talking to mates, all important parts of self-care! x

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 01:08:35

blipping... hear you , yes , but hurting so deeply.... feel like im being flayed, all tears and snot..lol

cannotseeaway Sun 14-Oct-12 06:23:44

Oh littleblue I hope you are feeling better this morning and are getting some sleep. Call up on all the RL support you can, I am thinking of you and if it makes you feel any better your example is giving me the strength to do what I have to do in my own little Benny Hill episode.

Confusingtimesahead Sun 14-Oct-12 06:36:54

I also hope you are feeling better this morning Littleblue. Stay strong.
Cannot you are up early too, are you ok?

cannotseeaway Sun 14-Oct-12 06:47:50

I have an early-rising 16 month old. 5.30am on the dot every morning! I am sat here thinking that I need to end my relationship, was posting more on another thread but DP read it. I care about him very much but our relationship is like littleblue's if they had stayed together and had 2 kids, because she had not recognised his behaviour as being wrong. It is tough. I am hijacking again!

Confusingtimesahead Sun 14-Oct-12 06:52:28

Oh Cannot, I feel your pain, PM me if you need a rant or a shoulder.

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 06:59:21

I'm finding it very hard , heartbreakingly so... whatever you all think of him , and I know you are right , he was also someone I shared more love and laughter with than I have ever experienced.... so its crushing right now....but yes , thankfully we didnt make babies , as I know there is no future in it , just so sad its come to this...

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 07:00:59

Oh and no worries on the hijacking... carry on , I hope you see your way through the maze too x

MummysHappyPills Sun 14-Oct-12 07:07:48

Haven't read whole thread but from your first few posts there are some MASSIVE red flags, please get out now while you still can.

MummysHappyPills Sun 14-Oct-12 07:09:23

Sorry, just caught up a bit. sad Sirry you're so upset op, must be heartbreaking but I think it is for the best. sad

Confusingtimesahead Sun 14-Oct-12 07:10:31

Littleblue, you are right it is a maze - I was in a similar situation to cannot with dc, yet it has worked out great after big efforts on both our parts to work together, we are happy but we are still working on it - Dp had counselling which really helped and opened his eyes too.

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 07:10:48

Yeah I know.... doesnt make it any easier tho sad thanks x

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 07:12:03

He certainly needs counselling... as do I , for different reasons...just soulsick tbh

cannotseeaway Sun 14-Oct-12 07:13:22

Thanks littleblue. Things are never black and White are they? Abusers are never 100% shites and rarely walk around wearing a black cloak do they? I don't feel like they always abuse to intentionally hurt, but sometimes because they know no other way of doing things.

When you feel like you're wavering and thinking too much about the good sides of him, just remember how it would feel to have to put up with a forced snog every day for the rest of your natural days.

cannotseeaway Sun 14-Oct-12 07:14:56

Yeuch, grammar, typos, sorry very tired!

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 07:17:03

I think thats why I feel as bad as I do... the shock of him suddenly behaving like that again really floored me... the sensation of WTF etc was so familiar from my years with severely abusive exe... told him so too , that I hadnt had my head messed up so badly by anybody since him... and yes , just the thought of a sudden rough breast squeeze is enough.... im brewing the menopause I think , they hurt like a bastard all the damn time...

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 07:17:33

Sokay , no red biros here... ;)

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 11:51:23

In a horrendous state , such a massive grief , and I know that seems mental given his behaviour... and I'm harping on too , but I'm just struggling ... trying to cheer myself up with a lighter thread over in chat , but I just want to curl up and die.... so fucking depressed its unreal.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Sun 14-Oct-12 13:38:03

Aww,, go easy on yourself. Have a duvet day and throw a pity party for yourself today. But only today. Tomorrow you start to pick yourself up. No man is worth making yourself ill for.

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 14:47:21

My daughter just appeared with a bottle of wine and a really gruesome dvd to take my mind off things.... shes an amazing young woman smile

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 14:48:20

Tomorrow I am going to go and get my hair cut properly for the first time in a long time.... fuck it , need a spoiling.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Sun 14-Oct-12 14:58:07

You certainly do

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 15:04:38

My dogs beside herself.. bless her ,so worried cos mummys a bit brokened... sad

Littleblue, just read the whole thread, I have no experience of what you and some of the other women have been through BUT you sound like an amazing, strong woman who will get through all the pain.

In the meantime take it easy and spoil yourself xx

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 17:30:09

Thank you.... what a lovely thing to say , feeling this grim , such kindness means alot xx

glastocat Sun 14-Oct-12 17:52:58

You will be fine. Better than fine. Look after yourself, have some wine and some nice nibbles. Maybe a bubble bath and some crap telly. You know you have done the right thing, stay strong.

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 18:00:49

Sat looking at nibbles , maybe tomos... I needed to lose weight , so hey ho , silver linings and all that..... this thread helps , I can scroll back and remind myself of all the horrible fucktard things he did...etc , its xfactor results night , and i have wine...... smile thanks all xxx

piratecat Sun 14-Oct-12 18:00:56

when i've felt so grief stricken, i have just taken it little by little. such tiny steps, such pain, but steps and each tiny one towards future calm. Just holding on to that little viable part of me that wants happiness within myself.

xx

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 18:03:03

Think ive lost sight of that piratecat , I have had a truly horrible year , and my relationship with him was in fact a light (generally) in alot of darkness.... but new opportunities have recently come my way , so I have to focus on that , and find my sense of self again... thats been a long time missing tbh

piratecat Sun 14-Oct-12 18:08:28

i understand, i truly do. Have had mostly shit yrs the last 7.

The times where i have felt i have lost sight of 'anything' viable outside myself or within myself have felt so pointless, so i know the depths. I can only say that doing what you are doing here, and really trying to focus on anything 'good' will eventually help you through.

I have to say I think you have been really brave, and taken a leap of faith, for yourself, very quickly seeing as you only started this thread wednesday. That's quite something you know. Hold on to that, as it shows strength, and i think it's really touching others too. xxx

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Sun 14-Oct-12 18:16:50

I agree with PC

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 18:17:54

Thank you , that means alot... I dont feel very brave walled up bawling my stupid eyes out , it keeps coming over me in waves... fucking horrible , he's hurting too , even more so I think as he knows it's on his head and he's just broken irreparably what could have been the best relationship we had ever had... despite his initial protestations(excuses) of his innocence... he knows the problem lies with him , as I truly know I did my best and didn't deserve this.... I'm glad if what I am going thru is somehow mobilising for anyone else feeling the same sense of mindfuck etc... I hope you have a better next seven years piratecat smile I declared 2012 as a positive start , after rebuilding from DV etc... BIG mistake , I am going to raise a toast on New Years Eve to having a fucking shit year... lol (joke) xxx

BigBroomstickBIWI Sun 14-Oct-12 20:04:51

Why don't you come to the MN Christmas meet up? Lots of us to give you real life support and a bloody good evening out?!

cannotseeaway Sun 14-Oct-12 20:05:45

Keep reading back in this thread, keep reading! You are really strong IMO. You have definitely given me strength smile

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 20:10:37

I've never taken part in any MN real life stuff.. thank you , what a lovely thought smile and that's nice cannotseeaway!! I dont feel it , but I'll get there.... xoxox

Littleblue Sun 14-Oct-12 21:14:25

This threads really helped... thank you , sitting here thinking of all the bits that made me feel as valued as a piece of steak , or a blow up doll..... instead of grieving for the bits that I actually valued... xx

Littleblue Mon 15-Oct-12 13:41:03

Hes picking his stuff up and dropping mine off shortly , feels like shit , but I can feel the peace of closure creeping in... after days and days of feeling like ive had my heart ripped out... just want the last bit put to bed so I can move on...

schobe Mon 15-Oct-12 14:02:49

Stay strong. If he wants to have a deep and meaningful discussion about it, tell him to write it all down in a letter so neither of you get carried away in the emotion of the moment.

Littleblue Mon 15-Oct-12 14:23:16

We arent even seeing each other to deal with it... all very arms length , the only way atm , thanks x

cannotseeaway Mon 15-Oct-12 20:04:09

How are you tonight littleblue?

Littleblue Mon 15-Oct-12 23:50:10

Scrolled back thru texts , skype.... which might sound like an emotional hypochondriac... but its so fucking clear , now...quite how obsessed with sex he was/is , and quite how little of the REST OF MY BLOODY LIFE he was interested in....I needed to look back with a less deluded head...so many messages were so bloody Benny Hill based its nauseating.... this man who rang me knowing I was at the end of my tether... actually ,well off the end... and bleated about the lack of sexy talk . Fucks sake , was I dating Jim Davidson???

Anniegetyourgun Mon 15-Oct-12 23:54:17

Nah, you can't have been, you'd have noticed if he was an ugly cunt with a very big mouth and a very small dick.

Littleblue Tue 16-Oct-12 00:09:20

LOL ... the sequin Blazer and mullet might have been a clue too.... grin

piratecat Tue 16-Oct-12 07:59:16

lol littleblue, thats funny. x

Littleblue Wed 17-Oct-12 00:51:16

Had to laugh , the biggest hurt here was/is the extent of trust in lowering boundaries after five years of being careful.... theres a post going round on fb " If you open your heart to a man , he will probably try and stick his dick in there too" .... and another one , "there's a small part of me that wants all your love... I keep it in my pants"

piratecat Wed 17-Oct-12 09:42:55

i know. there's no shame in trusting someone, it shows strength to move on, we'd all live in caves on our own otherwise.

How are you doing today?

Littleblue Wed 17-Oct-12 11:00:52

Crap , but slightly less crap than yesterday I suppose.... going to gut my bedroom and primp it a bit , I've let things get messy and its not helping , the self pitys getting boring , driving myself mad now smile

piratecat Wed 17-Oct-12 11:35:40

it's good tho, feels great to 'do' your bedroom. i love getting into cosy clean bed and tidy room.

little steps blue.

Littleblue Wed 17-Oct-12 17:24:31

Little steps indeed... thanks Pirate xx

Shaky Wed 17-Oct-12 22:28:03

I have read all your thread and I'm sorry it's turned out like this.

The only practical advice I can give, is to be kind to yourself, take your time and allow yourself to grieve for the person you THOUGHT he was.

You are allowed to feel betrayed, angry and let down, because that is what has happened.

There is nothing as comforting as new linen on the bed.

In the morning, the only way to get going properly, is to get in the shower as soon a you wake up (otherwise you will put it off all day an before you know it it's been 4 days before you have had a wash I've never done this, oh no, not me

Shaky Wed 17-Oct-12 22:32:57

Sorry, posted too soon.

I escaped an emotionally abusive relationship and NEARLY went back to it.

5 years later and I am happily settled with a lovely dp and almost 3 yr old ds.

There is light at the end of the tunnel, I wish you all the luck in the world thanks

Littleblue Wed 17-Oct-12 23:11:32

Thank you , really wobbling and missing him tonight.... but like you say , I'm missing who I thought he was... and as other posters have pointed out , he wouldn't deliberately have hurt me as he did if it wasn't abuse.... you'd think I would know this , but if you have read all of it its obvious i have a skewed perception of abuse after living with someone further up the ladder for years.... even a very forgiving friend of mine , an incredibly open minded one asked me how far would he go..if he got truly pissed off and told himself sex was his right... the Justin Lee Collins link was an eye opener ... " I could learn loads from this man" .... really???? Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.....

piratecat Thu 18-Oct-12 06:45:06

it's taking off those rose tinted specs, isn't it.

which you can only do when you take a leap of faith, and rely on your gut rather than what you were 'creating' a situation to be.

Like i said, it's fine to have trust, but if someone betrays that, and you find the strength to call them on it, then power to you lady.

just keep swimming! xx

Littleblue Thu 18-Oct-12 07:30:00

Indeed... as I said before , I recognise the freefall sensation of a mindfuck only too well... and as has also been said by another poster , the whiny entitled abuser can do more damage sometimes than the shouty furniture smashing ones , cos its more insidious... its like having fingers in your head , and hard to pin down... Im going into the city to indulge myself today smile xx

Shaky Thu 18-Oct-12 07:53:51

The Justin lee Collins link was dreadful, that is a real, blatant threat. You have had a very lucky escape from this man.

I'm so sorry you have been abused before. However, your partner has used that to his advantage by making you think "well, at least he's not as bad as ex dp. At least he's never done x, y, z,."

It probably makes you justify his actions and make them seem almost acceptable even though you know they are not.

Men like this are a real danger, believe me, in time you I'll look back and think, thank god I saw sense and was strong enough to walk away. I promise that you are doing the right thing, although it is painful right now. Remember, you ARE strong and you CAN do this, he really doesn't deserve YOU. Try to plant in your brain that it is HIS loss, not yours. You can pick yourself up and carry on, he on the other hand will ALWAYS be an abusive twat.

There was a thread recently called, "red flags I should have heeded" (sorry I can't link on my iPad), I'm sure you would recognise some of the behaviours of your partner on there.

How are you this morning? Did you have a decent nights sleep? X

susiedaisy Thu 18-Oct-12 12:48:54
Littleblue Thu 18-Oct-12 16:01:37

I have read some of that thread, and will read more...thank you both , some of it gels so much its scary.... the subtler stuff , like him whingeing I wasn't grateful that he made sure my favourite wine was usually in the fridge at his house when I was due over... yes , that's thoughtful , but I always said thank you when given a glass... as one does , what in hell beyond that was I sposed to do...? say thank you by being a human sex toy clearly... I now see how much of his behaviour was geared around ensuring he got all the sex he wanted , and how nasty his petulant and entitled streak is.... This unpicked the scab left by living with severe DV , this is why I am finding it so hard , I see that now... still not sleeping well , no , I dream about it too...its like bloody PTSD with him all muddied up with overtly violent exe... I have an appt with a counsellor next week , will be a very long time before I will be willing or well enough to contemplate a relationship again...and I'm more than ok with that xx

Littleblue Thu 18-Oct-12 16:39:37

Christ.... that thread should be made into a book and instilled into the national bloody curriculum... my EXE dp missed me so much when I was a way for nine days... apparently "watching porn wasn't the same" fucking hell.... and theres me thinking I was clear on abuse boundaries and reasonably intelligent with it... I am having such a massive surge of relief I'm out of it right now... with NO intention of getting caught again til I've had the predisposition to such men beaten out of me by a prolonged period of counselling !!!angry

Littleblue Thu 18-Oct-12 16:53:48

Omg... on that trip , he had an exe gf over for dinner and they got stoned , apparently he was "curious to see if he still felt anything , but shouldn't have told me as he was paying for it now..." all I did was go a bit quiet and suggest that if he missed me that much , I found it somewhat odd that he would roadtest how he felt about a "young slim thing wriggling about on his sofa" I am older than him , and a size 16) He took great pains to backpeddle and just say that he wanted to see if he could still be friends with her after her treatment of him... each passing day that I get further away from him , I see it ever more clearly.... holy cow...confused

Littleblue Thu 18-Oct-12 17:00:03

oh my , oh my , oh my... even in last convo , when I was in sodden tears and he was bleating about the allegedly lost "sexy talk , vibrators etc " ( we had had a full night of raunchy sex three days previously!!) he was having a go at me for the one time he turned over in the early hours and I was silently reading something on my ipad.... of course , that grated , cos if I was awake ,I should have been on top of/under him.... holy fuck did I do the right thing by calling him up on all of this.... oh my sweet lord , thanks for thread heads up... not that this one didnt show me the way , but all the stories by all those other women... bloody hell !!!

Shaky Thu 18-Oct-12 17:06:20

It's scary reading isn't it? A real eyeopener

Littleblue Thu 18-Oct-12 17:21:10

Unbelievable! , all those little things adding up to make the same picture as my exe , the exe he struggled with cos he'd "pissed up his lamp post" both on the same spectrum....how in hell didnt I see it...

Shaky Thu 18-Oct-12 20:00:13

My story is on that thread too x

millimurphy Thu 18-Oct-12 20:12:37

You are well rid - start rejoicing OP - you don't need a cock like this in your life. Keep well and happy xx

Littleblue Thu 18-Oct-12 20:34:59

I read as far as I could take... so many stories , so many battered lives/souls ... it makes me terrified to even contemplate trusting a man again... I always seem to pick the nutters hmm I saw some of it Shaky , and I knew that you had every reason to empathise with me from your posts here xxx, and thank you... to everybody, this thread has kept me sane this last week...its been unbelievably hard , but I'm eating again now after a week of not being able to swallow past the gut hurt , I'd hoped we could be friends one day , he and I.... but no....not a chance.

Shaky Thu 18-Oct-12 20:54:30

Stay strong littleblue, keep posting, we are here for you.

You are doing amazingly well x

Littleblue Thu 18-Oct-12 22:49:33

Thanks smile I do feel very fucked up by it , but also kinda cleansed if that makes sense... I said to him if someone resists being snogged and you force the issue , thats a massive frickin line in the sand crossed right there.... Im clearer now about what a fuck up I have allowed to happen to me emotionally than I have been in years.... my mother has just gone back to a man who fucked her around for years...shes another relationship addict..well fuck it , I am taking my dogs out to walk til we drop tomos , then I'm gutting my house , and moving on... alone smile (sorry for all the f- bombs in that post grin)

Shaky Thu 18-Oct-12 23:15:45

Go for it littleblue I'm dead proud of you!

Shaky Thu 18-Oct-12 23:17:43

F - bomb all you like, it's therapeutic.

We should never apologise for expressing our feelings

Shaky Thu 18-Oct-12 23:20:18

Susie thank you for linking the thread, I appreciate it. I would have done it myself if I could

Eurostar Fri 19-Oct-12 00:38:45

Littleblue, sorry to hear you are hurting. I am thinking though that it is really positive that you have recognised that this relationship was nowhere good enough for you and you have got out of it. This time, it took 6 months, next time you will be that bit more aware of your needs and rights I'm sure and if you do get in with a wrong 'un, it will come even more quickly to you to walk away. While looking back at old skype convos sounds like it could bring you down, the fact that you are noticing from them now actually how massive the imbalance was towards his needs, makes it a really useful exercise - although, I'd say, limit it and try and distract yourself with happier stuff too :-)

To you and the other people posting here about partners doing things they don't want sexually, please believe that worthwhile partners listen and adapt their behaviours when asked not to do something. If you have told a partner that you don't like something and if they ignore and keep coming coming back to it, this is the only red flag you need to get out before it is too late.

It's really shocking that this man is a chiropractor LittleBlue, he of all people should understand about the body and physical boundaries so that leads me to think there really is very little chance that he would change and grow up and become mature about sex and interested in your needs other than physical. The thing with inviting his ex around while you were away sounds so cruel and immature. Overall, he sounds like he has got stuck somewhere around his late teens.

Littleblue Fri 19-Oct-12 07:19:49

Thanks Shaky smile and yes it is Eurostar... he actually pinned me to his table when treating me once for one of his snogs , and really got his moneys worth too..it was horrible , I couldnt pull away at all...I should have punched him... He's made much of how his tables just the right height , wink wink...etc , and his longest relationship only lasted a year , they split after a few months of living together... and yes too on the arrested development...he's highly intelligent , but an overgrown child , definitely....I've made it abundantly clear no further communication welcome by blocking him on all platforms... I doubt I have heard the last of it however...

Littleblue Fri 19-Oct-12 10:59:54

Everytime I wobble , a quick scroll here...and i'm renewed.... wink

Littleblue Fri 19-Oct-12 11:53:59

Coldest shock yet.... for me personally , out of curiosity searched threads in my old name.... and found this , almost 4 years old exactly

""He is 4 years younger than me,im livid,as he pesters for sex constantly in bed,wont stop rubbing and stroking,squeeeeezing and patting etc,when im grimly drinking tea,(and im filthy tempered in the mornings),we have been seeing each other for a year,so he should know better.and makes cute remarks about "taking my blouse off later" etc.
Im seeing a consultant at the end of the month,as i appear to be Peri menopausal,even though im not yet 40.My breasts hurt constantly,but he acts sulky if i wear a bra etc in bed.I had sex with him to shut him up the other night,but it was like chucking fuel on the fire,he now thinks if he persists,he can seduce me eventually,even though im flinchy,with my back to him.I just wanted some peace,hes a big bloke,and he sleeps with an arm and leg on me if he can,and kisses me,and "at" me,all the time.He txts me "I love you" several times a day,and phones..he is doing my nut.
He cheerfully said this morning,when talking about going out to dinner with a load of mates he hasnt seen for ages.That when it was pointed out he had lost weight,he said it was healthy eating and loads and loads of sex!angryIm disgusted by that. ''

THIS WAS ANOTHER EXE!! after the dv chap , went out with this one for 18 months.... holy fuck.... speechless

Littleblue Fri 19-Oct-12 11:56:06

I'd forgotten how bad he was.... and the similarities are uncanny.... jesus

Jeesus fucking christ on a bike, I don't know how you're not in prison for murder - I'd have cracked and swung for them both with an iron frying pan! smile

Have you thought about some therapy recently? I hate to sound all Nooo Yoik on you (though after 8 years here it's hard not to) but I bloody love therapy, it's helped me NO end.

mummytime Fri 19-Oct-12 12:18:32

Have you tried the Freedom Program?

Littleblue Fri 19-Oct-12 13:11:08

First sensible thing I did once I'd recovered from the first bit of this particular example , was arrange to see a therapist....we are due to discuss the options , including cbt , next week.... I already am free mummytime... and I will remain so , my habit of collecting knobjockies is over.... I will return to this and the redflag thread as and when I need to.... I am genuinely amazed at how stupid I have been when it comes to men... I am done with it , in fricking spades!!

mummytime Fri 19-Oct-12 16:04:23

Congratulations! (Maybe print out that post and stick it somewhere to look at if you ever feel yourself weakening.) thanks

Littleblue Fri 19-Oct-12 18:00:11

I feel weak all the bloody time... but I'll get there , I'm just tired tbh.. thank you xx

Actually, I'm not surprised that this bloke is a chiropractor. OK, I have zero little tolerance for woo-therapies anyway, but a reasonable half of the practitioners of them are either cheerful money-hungry con-artists (who treat their patients with great kindness and courtesy in order to keep them healthy and spending), or well-meaning deluded twits. However, a percentage are nasty, nasty, predatory people. Chiropratoring (or whatever the correct part of the verb is) like 'massage' of any kind, is appealing to abusers, particularly the clammy-handed, whiny, touchy-feely kind (as opposed to the out and out violent kind).It's an excuse to touch women and push their boundaries.... and in bad woo-therapists it always seems to be a case of 'If you really want to be cured you need my magic wand.'

Anyone remember the Barefoot Doctor? He was one of these: busted for sex-pesting and disappeared.

Littleblue Sat 20-Oct-12 11:09:51

He's incredibly professional actually... he has to be , and personally I don't agree with the term applied re woo therapies in this case , my gp has long been a supporter of chiropracty and osteopathy , such practitioners are specialists in their field... smile I know what you mean tho SGB , whatever was going on in his mind if he had attractive women on his table was one thing , but much of his client base here in wales is farmers and old ladies... lol grin

Littleblue Sat 20-Oct-12 11:20:22

The insidiousness of his mindset is gradually becoming ever clearer... nastiness about my friends , bigotry , remarks about how I live my life and lastly a few comments about my parenting , very very subtle cos I'd have torn his fucking head off... but all masked with OTT concern about my depression problems... this man who is a relentless stoner and lives in chaos angry I feel really fucked up by it atm...

sounds like you're coming out of the fog, Little - all the more credit to you for getting away from this unpleasant titface.

Littleblue Sat 20-Oct-12 14:05:56

Thank you , its gonna take me some time to recover , but I am now starting to talk to rl friends about what has happened... they are all saying the same thing... his loss smile

Littleblue Thu 25-Oct-12 23:18:40

So hung up , no idea how to let go of what I thought it was , I know its pathetic , im even fucking dreaming about it... never been as depressed in my bloody life.

Anniegetyourgun Thu 25-Oct-12 23:41:13

Roll on the CBT, eh?

My theory is you have been so much in the habit of making do in a bad relationship, holding onto the positive 'n' all that, that you can't stop even when the relationship is over. There's always this nasty little nagging voice saying "if you tried harder you could have made it work" (is it your mother?) even though in your conscious brain you know damn' well that you should not be even trying to make it work. It takes time to break these habits, time and the right sort of therapy if you're lucky enough to get it; and you've only ditched the guy a fortnight ago. Meanwhile you've got various shit in your life and no mostly-pleasant partner to distract you. (Or to pester you and make it worse, but that's not the way you are used to looking at it.)

I hope you feel a whole lot better soon; you certainly deserve to.

Littleblue Thu 25-Oct-12 23:59:35

Think thats exactly the kind of truth and accuracy I needed to hear... so ill right now , but I know you are right.... jesus

Littleblue Fri 26-Oct-12 00:00:49

Bloody hell.... can I lay on a couch and be told what for by you ??!! :D

Anniegetyourgun Fri 26-Oct-12 00:03:52

My rates are very reasonable! cup of tea and the train fare

Littleblue Fri 26-Oct-12 00:06:42

Book me in grin

Littleblue Fri 26-Oct-12 00:23:48

I hate myself more that I didn't take his " I have a cure for that" comments when I complained of insomnia/migraine... as the red flag it should have been... currently feeling more worthless than ever...really really struggling... bigtime

Littleblue Fri 26-Oct-12 00:58:36

I'm being strongarmed into a headbreak.... bestie insisting on a visit....not before time smile

susiedaisy Fri 26-Oct-12 11:24:29

Don't be too hard on yourself blue these things take a long to time to fully heal from

Well done your Bestie! Hope it's a good time for you both! smile

cannotseeaway Fri 26-Oct-12 15:10:03

Littleblue I second susiedaisy, don't expect miracles overnight, it takes a while to get over any relationship breakup, even those that make all the good sense in the world. I hope your bestie helps smooth the path to emotional freeeeeedom from this twunt!

Littleblue Fri 26-Oct-12 20:05:37

Its the mindfuck I'm reeling from... he apologised last time he fell down the fricking rabbit hole that I was "in love with a mental" I keep going round and round in circles , I've never struggled so deeply with a breakup before , this was so fucking muddy !! but I know I'm fighting to rationalise an irrational mind..and its a total waste of time , hes probably soothing himself by browsing porn!

Littleblue Fri 26-Oct-12 20:06:35

Oh , and no more sneaky emails from dads... if you want to ask me those sort of questions , grow a set and ask me in public !

Are.you.getting.PMs.from.masturbators?
share.on.here.so.we.can.point.and.laugh
report.them.to.MNHQ,that's.not.nice...

BigBroomstickBIWI Sat 27-Oct-12 10:21:04

Wow! You're really getting pervy PMs? Please tell me you have reported to MNHQ?!

Littleblue Sat 27-Oct-12 11:36:29

Not fappers , no... a few dads who want to tell me I'm wrong by being upset by his behaviour , and asking if I would be upset if he turned me down for sex... all of which is beside the bloody point !! so sod off you lot... back to the top shelf smile

Littleblue Sat 27-Oct-12 11:37:05

Lol @ sgb , I'd have pasted them were that the case grin

BigBroomstickBIWI Sat 27-Oct-12 13:11:49

... or have the courage of your convictions to post your views openly hmm

Offred Sat 27-Oct-12 13:14:59

I really think you need to report them to MNHQ and I think they need to think about having some kind of facility for warning women/men who post about rape and sexual assault to report and block any pm's they receive from men or women trying to convince them what happened to them didn't happen. If that is their opinion there is no reason why they can't say it on the actual thread.

Littleblue Sat 27-Oct-12 14:41:16

Valid point in fact... I am struggling enough with this issue without covert one for the boys private messaging... its sneaky and cheap behaviour... AND cowardly !

Anniegetyourgun Sat 27-Oct-12 15:01:34

How likely is it that this PM'ing bloke IS your ex?

Littleblue Sat 27-Oct-12 15:27:23

He wouldn't know about mumsnet , and even if he did , it would be scant chance he would clock the thread... ( says she trying not to be freaked out)

Littleblue Sat 27-Oct-12 15:29:17

He did follow me onto another couple of platforms , my bestie called him a stalker... but Ive just looked up the username of the most likely pm writer , were that the case... and no , definitely not smile

Anniegetyourgun Sat 27-Oct-12 15:32:29

Hmm, must be another frustrated sex pest then.

Littleblue Sat 27-Oct-12 17:08:30

Seems to be alot of it about angry

Apty Sat 27-Oct-12 21:30:15

Hi littleblue, came back to see how you were getting on. It takes time I guess, stay strong x

Shaky Sat 27-Oct-12 23:05:43

Hi littleblue

I was thinking about you today and wondering how you are.

Please ignore the knobhead that has been pm you, he's not worth it.

You are doing well and you are ALLOWED to have bad, feeling like shit days. Tis all part of the healing process. It takes time and you can't rush it. You can't make a scab on your knee heal quicker because you WANT it to, it heals in its own time, just like your mind.

You have been really brave and strong, please just keep reminding yourself that. Take care x

Oh and don't forget to change your clocks tonight wink

Littleblue Sat 27-Oct-12 23:40:54

Hi apty been thinking about you too.... smile and you shaky and thanks , I'm still reeling tbh , every relationship I have ever had thats blown up in my face , I have been braced for... I had trust in this one , because of so many things , how we gelled together..etc , the sexpestery stuff was a very minor part until he blew the lid off.... I have to find a way to stop trying to understand , after all , Ted Bundys nearest and dearest must have struggled with his reality too...lol , I have been talking to new people , workwise , opening new doors , and reminding myself what alot of diverse and doggedly supportive friends I have , both online , and rl.... my reality is not based on a porn script....just because I'm a red blooded woman , doesnt make me a farm animal to rut..... I surrendered so much trust in this man , madness it might well seem.... but we were intensely close on every level... it hurts like fuck , and that just keeps giving.... but that doesnt mean I will go back , it just closes the door ever tighter....

Littleblue Sat 27-Oct-12 23:41:50

When I left dv exe... I was relieved , this one , jesus..... huge mindfuck

Littleblue Sun 28-Oct-12 09:44:42

and again , dreamt about it... I've never come out of anything needing therapy so badly before... sighs

Littleblue Fri 16-Nov-12 20:25:45

Old thread...sorry , just remembered he answered the door on date three wearing only his dressing gown " Didn't see the point in putting clothes on" ... little gems like this keep coming back to me... bit like reflux really grin

Shaky Fri 16-Nov-12 20:33:32

Oh littleblue you are well rid of him.
You are doing brilliantly,
Onwards and upwards, chin up x

Littleblue Fri 16-Nov-12 20:36:34

I know... I'm getting there , s'funny , after all the shit in my life , this one cut the deepest... I'm out this weekend , I got strongarmed by worried friends into going to a party a couple of weeks ago... am suddenly invited to alot of new events ongoing from that... I really shouldnt be smug that I know that will filter back to him via mutual friends should I....? wink xx

Shaky Fri 16-Nov-12 21:40:42

Good for you! Enjoy and surround yourself with people who really do care about you. I bet there are loads that you haven't seen for ages because the twunt isolated you and made you think the world revolved around him.

I suspect that this hurts more because you thought he was better than the other relationships you have had before....

Littleblue Fri 16-Nov-12 21:53:35

Yes , nail on head....Depressions been worst ever and frends have been worrying... I'm lucky to be loved and I've been asked out by a rather lovely man , I hedged as its too soon to date really ,I told him I'm not in a place to date deeper than socially but have said yes... sod it ,you only live once , and oh boy is my red flag warning system primed !!!! smile Thanks Shaky ! xx

Anniegetyourgun Fri 16-Nov-12 23:26:41

No, of course you shouldn't be smug. He's not worth that much headspace. (But what the heck, he owes you a bit of amusement.)

I bet you thought the dressing gown incident was cute at the time. Good old hindsight.

Shaky Fri 16-Nov-12 23:37:45

I'm glad you have the red flag warnings imprinted in your brain.

I would say be very, very careful. You are still vunerable right now and only just out of a relationship.

I would actually advise that you stay away from dating for a while and concentrate on finding out who you really are again. I would really hate for you to be swept off your feet and end up in the same situation in 12 months time.
Be friends, have fun etc but learn to be yourself again. You do not need a man in your life to make you a whole person, you can do that on your own. Xx

Littleblue Sat 17-Nov-12 00:11:03

I thought the dressing gown incident was kinda weirdy..in fact... and its bad of me to know he will be fucked off if he thinks im bouncing around the edges of our linked social scene and find that amusing...fuck him , he made me ill , grin ... Shaky I'd advise me to stay away from dating too...and its certainly not a case of me latching onto any attachment scenario... I wasn't looking , and suddenly VERY nice genuine man shows alot of interest , and respect , for me..and what I do , we work in the same field you see... and the respects mutual...and hes invited me (shyly) to a couple of social functions/gigs...and he is proving very positive for me in tapping me back into my professional head again... and he's a grownup , not pestering me for a shag , he's more interested in the person..... how fucking refreshing ;) none of this >>>> http://fleetingftw.com/post/12653435639/but-i-really-love-your-boobs-cyanide

Littleblue Sat 17-Nov-12 00:12:41

I'm not looking for another headfuck.... no worries smile xx

Shaky Sat 17-Nov-12 00:46:38

Yet I am very glad to see your eyes are wide open approach.

I'm so proud of you
<emotional>

Littleblue Sat 17-Nov-12 10:31:30

Thank you ! smile... mwahs !

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