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Am I over-reacting to explicit messages. DH seems to think I am. (really long)

(115 Posts)
Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 10:20:30

I'm sorry, I've tried to cut this down so I don't drip feed but this is as brief as I can do it! In short, have found messages to a mutual friend of ours where DH was really bad-mouthing me, then being sexually explicit.

We've had a tough year. I had a very hard pregnancy, in hospital a lot, poorly baby, DD1 starting school, and medical problems for me that limit a lot of movement. I have a large bowel hernia that is in urgent need of repair and am waiting for an operation date. I will need an op that will put me flat on my back for a month, unable to even lift my baby or I will end up back in hosptial for longer for a worse op according to my consultant. Our house is a tip which I hate but some days I can't even push the hoover round. I'm miserable as I dislike living in a dump. DH is really messy, drops clothes where he takes them off, leaves dirty things in the kitchen and expects me to clean up after him, moans when I ask him to take rubbish out (and then doesn't do it, leaving black bags to fester in the kitchen for days - which means I either live with a smell, or do it myself and end up in pain for a few days). I don't feel like having sex a lot, although I still go down on him and it's never returned. We don't have much physical intimacy beyond that. I know he works, and he works damn hard for which I am always telling him how grateful I am. I have never stopped him going out with mates or whatever he wants to do.

I used the computer, and found up on the screen messages going back months up until recently complaining about me. Not one positive thing was said. He said I'm always angry and aggressive, he can't talk to me, he's expected to look after the kids all the time, I can't cope with 2 kids etc. That I need help but I'm being controlling and refused to give him my HV number so he could chase them up (I don't recall being asked for it ever and even if I refused surely he could have got it another way if he was that worried?). He doesn't know how he's going to cope after my op it's just yet more being piled on him. He complained to her he had to use a condom when we had sex. He told her the orgasm he had thinking about her was the best one he'd had for months, and detailed what he wanted to do to her. Calling her a nickname really close to the one he uses for me. I found porn of women being anally abused. I wasn't even snooping around our PC, they were on favorites and bookmarked! He wants to take her out to dinner, just the 2 of them and complained about having to take me out because I wanted to go and he was tired.

He does his share of nightshift when he sleeps on the sofa and DD2 sleeps in the cot downstairs, but in his message he's told her he's not allowed back in our bed and stays on the sofa every night. I can cope with 2 kids just fine, I CAN'T cope with 2 kids, him being a 3rd child, cleaning house AND being in pain all the time. I have no social life because of this. I never get out. I shouldn't even be carrying washing upstairs (doctors orders) but I do anyway because who else will? I don't expect him to look after the kids, I try to insist he doesn't because I know when he gets home he just wants to relax. He ALWAYS argues that he wants to, that he's missed them.

If you're with me so far, thank you.

I spoke to her, she said she had felt really uncomfortable in the conversation and tried to steer it away, laugh it off - which I could see from the messages - but he hadn't taken the hint. She is a very meek person and would not have been able to tell him to pack it in. She said she felt awful but didn't know how to tell me. I believe her.

He denied it up until I named her, and some details. He said sorry, didn't admit to it because it was ages ago, didn't think it was relevent, told me he's been a twat that he loves me and was just blowing off steam. I told him to go read those messages and imagine it was me saying them to another man. He did come back looking teary and told me he was an idiot and could see how it could be read but he didn't mean it that way. I spoke to him about the porn (quoted some stuff I'd read on the feminist section on here about girls in porn) and he says he feels sick at that and won't use it again.

NOW SO AS NOT TO DRIP FEED - yes there's more. Sorry!

This is the 2nd time I've caught a conversation of this type, the first time was with a girl in the states he met online just before DD1 was born. Trying to get her to send him pics which she wouldn't. I told him if he behaved this way again he should just leave. He said he was sorry, that he was being a twat. Before I had DD2, and was very ill, he would make comments about beautiful actresses on television, google them with me in the room and show me these girls. I confronted his nasty behaviour, he said he was sorry, that he was being a twat.

I don't know where to go from here. I told him to apologise to my friend and she says he has and seemed sincere, but he sincerely apologised to me 4 years ago too. We've been together nearly 20 years, he's an amazing dad and used to be so loving. These messages he's sent are so 2 faced though, contradicting everything he's told me. I understand this year has been hard on him too, he's had a lot going on at work as well as at home. He's always insisted that he adores me, that I'm beautiful and attractive even when I feel fat and my hernia is blown up. How could he suddenly decide all the things he does are demanded of him? Even when I try to get him to go out with friends he says no. He says he feels like he should stay in and help out, but when I try so hard to keep him happy and he point blank refuses to take time for himself, I don't see how his resulting annoyance at not getting me time is my fault!

He's trying to kiss and hug me and hold my hand, and seems very put out that I won't just accept an apology. I do in front of the girls but I just don't want him kissing me again yet. And his message to her about being made to sleep on the sofa is now true. Am I wrong? Should I just go with it and see what happens again?

Doha Sat 06-Oct-12 10:28:18

He has done it twice now.

To do it once you can forgive to do it twice NO WAY. He has no boundries or respect for you.

You deserve better

saffronwblue Sat 06-Oct-12 10:30:07

I do not think you are overreacting. He is treating you without respect. Would you want your DD to be in a marriage like this?

Hyperballad Sat 06-Oct-12 10:35:21

You really do have it tough, you need some help, is there anyone that can give you a hand in the house or can you afford a cleaner for a short while?

Your health has to be more of a priority.

As for your poor excuse of a DH, I can't tell you what you should do but I know that I could not be with a man like that. I wouldn't be able to trust him again. If she had reciprocated then you'd be looking at a full blown affair, I'm sure of that.

I'm so glad you've posted on here, hopefully you will get the advice you need. X

Whitecherry Sat 06-Oct-12 10:37:29

Messages aside, would you not qualify for help from homestart? Or similar

Sounds a tough situation for you all

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 10:38:53

Thanks for your replies. I do have a lady from Homestart fortunately she was here when I found out and she stopped me going spare. She is once a week and I appreciate her so much!

This is new - he has now sent me my favorite flowers in a vase with a very grovelly note. He's never actually spent money before apologising.

Whocansay Sat 06-Oct-12 10:39:19

Can you really trust him?
He's sorry, yes, but only that he was caught.

He's not a nice man. He's not a kind man. He thinks with his penis. He's been badmouthing you at a time when you needed his support. In his mind its all about him and your troubles are an inconvenience.

I wouldn't want to try to forgive and forget. Do you? You've too much stuff on at the moment to cope with this. Can you get support from family? Can you talk to the hv about getting some help?

I would suggest asking him to leave, to give you some space to think about what you want.

Hope you're OK.

ponygirlcurtis Sat 06-Oct-12 10:41:27

OP, I'm really sorry to hear about your bad time, it must be hard to look after kids when you're in such pain.

Regards your 'D'H, I think there are several separate elements here.

There's the issue of him not helping out around the house, despite you being incapacitated - and not even cleaning up after himself. Very unfair, selfish, and shows a complete lack of thought for you.

There's the sex issue, where you still go out of your way to 'help him out' because you know you can't do the full thing, but he does nothing in return for you. Also lack of thought, selfishness and disrespect.

There's the issue of badmouthing you to a friend, as far as making stuff up - that's just not on. I suspect it's linked to the next issue of him actually propositioning her - I think he's trying to make her feel sorry for him so she'll either go along with it or maybe even respond similarly. This one is the worst of all.

Overall, it seems like he's thinking only of himself. He's being very selfish at a time when you really need his help. He's being disrepectful - with your friend? really? that's awful - and is on the verge of having an emotional affair (or guilt-free sex perhaps). And now he expects you to accept his apology and brush it all under the carpet and carry on as normal. I think I'd want to know what changes he's going to be making and how things are going to be different from now on. What is he going to do to help around the house? how is he going to make you feel more loved? How is he going to make amends for his appalling behaviour and betrayal?

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 10:52:03

He's promised to start being more active around the house, and he says he realises he's been selfish. He sees a difference between online and real affairs, and I'm not certain he would go "all the way" as opposed to just "having a bit of fun online". I'm not sure when he would have time TBH! I don't just want to forgive and forget again, but equally I don't want to end my marriage if it was just stupidity.

So confused.

Malificence Sat 06-Oct-12 10:53:35

Decent men, who love and respect their partners, do not behave in this awful, shocking way.
You would be better off without him in your life, what is he doing to enhance your life, to make life better for you?
He's abusive and selfish, that's the bottom line.

glastocat Sat 06-Oct-12 10:57:58

He sounds awful, in so many ways! You deserve better, how could you ever trust him again?

Doha Sat 06-Oct-12 11:01:28

Promises promises promises--often broken seldom kept for more than a week or two.
Giver it a cvouple of weeks when he thinks he has been forgiven and he will be at it again....

DuelingFanjo Sat 06-Oct-12 11:04:41

if it were me I'd be asking him to move out for a while.

Leverette Sat 06-Oct-12 11:07:33

I know he's your husband on paper but in real life he's a sack of shit.

50shadesofgreyhair Sat 06-Oct-12 11:08:38

He's right about one thing Strop - he is a twat.

Proudnscary Sat 06-Oct-12 11:13:25

I don't know what to say other than he he sounds like the worst kind of bastard.

Not only did he aggressively pursue other women with explicit messages, he dismissed and disrespected you in those messages.

You are supposed to be resting but he allows you to carry washing up the stairs and doesn't help you with the housework. He doesn't help you round the house (yeah yeah he's promised to now as he's in the doghouse).

He watches stomach churning porn - and doesn't give a fuck that you know or that the children could find these images on his bookmarks.

Telling you repeatedly that he fancies famous women then making you look at them online?

He is making my skin crawl. What a creep.

Here's what you have to decide - can you stay with him knowing you will find inappropriate sexual messaging/porn for the rest of your life?

Well, there's the long term approach and the short term. I will put aside anything to say about him and say right now, this has to be about you.

Can you go somwhere else while you have the op and recover, and leave him to it? Or at least be taken care of for the first couple of weeks.

Right now, everything has to be about you, what you want and how you can get better.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 11:18:11

I half want to kick him out, but I won't be able to stay in our home, I'd have to get council housing, this sounds daft but I ADORE my house! It's not perfect but it's so lovely. Our kids would be uprooted and DD1 would be devastated. She loves her home and her Daddy. I would struggle physically without him and I would miss him. Although the house would be cleaner!

The other half wants to give it another go, with the absolute rule that 1 more strike = divorce. But I've said that before, haven't I? I just remember what he was like before all this started, candle lit baths being run for me and snuggles on the sofa.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 11:22:33

I wish anything he tells me could come from the heart, but it just sounds like he trots out the same lines again and again. He never uses emotional language, but is very businessy like "I can see how that could be taken, that's not how I meant it but I'm sorry you saw it that way". Also talks about getting councelling for his behaviour. Not sure if that would actually help - apparantly his doctor has told him he's on the low end of the autistic spectrum. I had wondered that a few times!

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 11:22:50

sorry not autistic, Aspergers! Silly me.

Proudnscary Sat 06-Oct-12 11:24:30

Ok so what your last post says is 'I feel I should say I want to leave him, but I don't and I won't' followed by 'I will threaten him with a pathetic ultimatum that neither of us will believe and everything will return to business as usual'.

Your lucky husband! He can do whatever the fuck he likes, minimise it and throw you a couple of apologies and go back to doing whatever the fuck he likes.

Proudnscary Sat 06-Oct-12 11:25:14

^I meant your post at 11.18

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 11:27:21

Even if there were no other women, I would not want to live with this man. He sounds horrible sad

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 11:28:12

Proud - I really don't want to go down the line of repeated behaviour, saying no more then still putting up with it. I feel I should follow through on my threat to kick him out as I told him I would the first time. I WANT him to believe me but it doesn't feel like he does. I do want him here and I do love him but I feel like I have far to much self respect to just keep taking this.

Proudnscary Sat 06-Oct-12 11:31:14

It's much more important that you believe yourself, not him. It's you who needs to be resolute and carry through the threat. But I don't think you will.

procrastinor Sat 06-Oct-12 11:31:25

strop your husband needs to sort himself out. Perhaps a period of separation?

To put it in context, I'm not even ill just revising for an exam and my DH has bent over backwards looking after DS, getting the house immaculate so I don't need to worry whilst juggling his stressful shift work which means he's staying away from the house for days at a time. I'm not bragging but trying to show you this is what DH do because we a couple and support each other. Not run online and live out fantasies.

If this has been the first time then that would be one thing. But this is the second. If he wants this imaginary wonderful world without the stress of supporting the person he chose to spend the rest of his life with, then I'd let him have at it and would invite my mom or friend to come give me a hand. He can take the kids out like any divorced dad and see how he likes it.

I'm really sorry.

Nagoo Sat 06-Oct-12 11:34:53

You aren't over-reacting.

I think I'd start laying tha law down. he already thinks so little of you, what do you have to lose if he thinks you are a bossy bitch who does no housework?

This is very sad sad

GoldShip Sat 06-Oct-12 11:38:34

You poor woman.

What an absolute arse.

I have nothing of any use to say but I couldn't read and run.

Look after yourself x

Soditall Sat 06-Oct-12 11:42:00

I would walk away from him,he is never going to change and I think you know that.

I'm disabled now and really ill and we have 5 children and two of them are asd but my husband never treats me the way your being treated because he loves me and would never want to loose me.

Your not doing anything wrong,he on the other hand has got it all wrong.Like you've said this is twice,how many more times would be to many for you?

Why would you have to leave the house?Your ill and you have the children and the divorce would be his fault,there's no way any court would expect you to leave the house.

Get in touch with the adult social services,they're nothing to do with your children,they'll focus on your needs whilst your ill and after the operation and they'll be able to get you some help.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 11:44:26

My Mum has DD1 tonight, so just DD2 who is 7 months to look after. I am tempted to book myself in a hotel in a nearby city to get some headspace away from all this.

I'm thinking at the moment to tell him he's on the sofa on a sort of trial basis. If he sorts himself out and keeps it up (months, not weeks!) he can come back into MY bed. If not, he's out. He's given me his passwords and signons, but what's to stop him making more? I really don't want to be checking up on him. No, I dont' want him out, and yes I would rather deal with this and solve it but I don't want to be taken for a fool.

procrastinor Sat 06-Oct-12 11:47:28

Is there a spare room he can have? The sofa is so intrusive into normal living but a spare room means that he knows that it is permanent until he sorts himself out.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 11:49:06

No there is no spare room. There's no spare bed! I do think me going to a hotel tonight would scare the crap out of him and make him realise I'm serious. I'd ask him to go but really a) I'm not sure where and b) I WANT THE BREAK!

Pagwatch Sat 06-Oct-12 11:49:40

My son has autism.
Autism does not make you disrespect your wife, aggressively peruse women or bookmark porn.
An asd diagnosis is not an excuse for his shitty behaviour however much you both may want it to.

YerMaw1989 Sat 06-Oct-12 11:59:24

Whats stopping him doing it a third time? nothing.

I think whats worse is that you are physically in a very bad way, does little to help and was slagging you off :O ,
I experienced something similar and I left for a week, but was rushed to hospital with a threatened miscarriage on the weekend sad
so I'd obviously been left to struggle too long.

fiventhree Sat 06-Oct-12 11:59:59

I wish anything he tells me could come from the heart, but it just sounds like he trots out the same lines again and again. He never uses emotional language, but is very businessy like "I can see how that could be taken, that's not how I meant it but I'm sorry you saw it that way"

That's the key, and it isnt good enough, is it? It really isnt, an it just tells you he is not serious.

I think that if you are to have any hope, counselling is a must, and he needs to understand that you can tell family to help support you.

Also, I think that the best judge of him isnt what is in his computer but his day to dday behaviour.

my h had online sex with many woman, but he doesnt now, after he realised how nearly he lost everything, and really knew how close he came.

I dont need to check his laptop- I look at his behaviour in the family and towards me, because that is the indicator. Silly I couldnt see it before, as it always was.

Book a hotel for the night and have a break. And kick him out.

You say you dont think you can manage without him. But I think you can.

After all, a man that does not contribute to the housework at all, is dead meat. He is creating more work for you:

More rubbish is created
more laundry to deal with
picking up after him
more dishes
more shopping
more cooking.

And as he does not actually help with anything, you would be a lot better off.
Dh travels with work quite a lot, and it is amazing how much less washing up and laundry I have to do when he is away. Even though he is a man who helps around the house, and dont bicker and argue, life is in some respects easier when he is away, from a house work perspective.

TELL HIM (and this is my summary and take on your situation, and you of course dont need to do anything like this)

"John, I am sorry, but seeing your lies about me and our relationship, and especially you lying about how much you do in the house is the straw that broke the camels back. You have had one such inappropriate relationship before, twice I have caught you, but I dont know how many more there has been. You have broken my trust twice. I am not sure I can trust you again, I am not sure I even want to. Seeing you lying about how much you do, and how little I do, has shocked me to the core. You are a lazy man who spread your mess everywhere, drop your clothes on the floor, for me to pick up after you, you moan when I ask you to take the rubbish out, and you cant even do that ONE thing. You do nothing useful in the house. Now that I can see with open eyes what type of man, and partner you are, I have come to realize that life will be a lot easier and hard work without you. Less laundry, less tidying up, less dishes to do, so we need to talk about how to get divorce proceedings going. Meanwhile, I want you to move out."

See what he says.

MaBaya Sat 06-Oct-12 12:02:39

I dont think you are overreacting at ALL. This is just awful. To be honest, the sex stuff would be less upsetting to me than the moaning about criticising about you to another woman! Thats just ultimately disrespectful and bastardly. Dealbreaker.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:04:56

I'm also quite tempted to pass him this thread as he really doesn't seem to get it.

Should I?

He does not get it?

What is he, a single cell organism?

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:07:23

No, but he doesnt see how bad it really is. I guess Im hoping reading what you all have written might bang it into his head.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Sat 06-Oct-12 12:08:38

OP - he sounds pretty pointless to be honest. What value does he truly bring to your life (YOURS, not your DCs)?

He's a lazy liar. Not attractive.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:12:54

Honestly Ophelia, this week not a lot. We used to have a lot of laughs and supported eachother thru some very hard times and I guess I am just hoping that this is a reaction to having kids and no longer being the center of my attention. I want to get back to where we used to be as a couple, but a couple who have been blessed with 2 very beautiful girls!

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 12:24:14

I'm also quite tempted to pass him this thread as he really doesn't seem to get it

Oh, he 'gets it' alright. He knows exactly what he's doing. He knows that he can continue to do exactly what he likes too.

I would not advise showing him this thread. He will see your empty threats as what they are. Everyone is telling you that your situation is awful. The one person you should be able to rely on to love and support you is just kicking you when you're down.

I actually think you are the one who doesn't get it.

He is abusive.

You should not be with him.

Every day he is damaging your self esteem even more so that you don't even have the strength to do anything about it.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:27:13

Oh Fairenuff, is that really how it is? I suppose I'm just used to it.

I'm not strong, I can't cope and I'm not actually sure I care enough to change it as long as the girls are happy. But the second I think that I realise that's not the way to live.

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 12:30:33

If you allow this to continue your beautiful girls will grow up thinking that this is normal and what they should expect in a relationship. They will allow men to use and abuse them and blame themselves for not being 'enough'.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:32:03

I can't find any hotels or B&Bs near me for tonight that don't cost the earth. I just wanted to get out of here for tonight so I could think.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Sat 06-Oct-12 12:32:15

Stropzilla - if you need support and love a dog would be a better choice IMO. He's having a laugh and not with you. Can you chuck him out and import and friend / relative to help you when you have your operation?

Honestly, your self respect sounds soooo ground down sad

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 12:33:30

It's just one night. How much can it cost? Are you worth it?

LovesPeace Sat 06-Oct-12 12:33:42

Well, you and he seem to be agreed on one key fact: he's a twat.
Get rid.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sat 06-Oct-12 12:34:36

You op shocked me and made me really angry for you, my heart was thumping!

He is treating you very badly indeed in all sorts of ways. Personally i can't see that suddenly changing because that would require a complete change of personality.

I would have your op and then chuck him out. Preferably bitching out before if you think you could find a way to manage. You may well be able to stay in your home.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:34:55

I know, but I don't have any money other than child benefit, i think 40 of that has already gone on his phone contract. It would be bad to use his credit card, wouldn't it.

fuckadoodlepoopoo Sat 06-Oct-12 12:36:24

So you don't even share your money?! You live on child benefit which he spends on his phone?

No it wouldn't be bad to use his credit card considering the circumstances.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:37:22

No, he keeps his money I have direct debits set up to come out of his account. He does pop money across when I ask. The phone comes out of his account because well, I was trying to do something nice and get him a new phone!

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:37:38

sorry, the phone comes out of MY account, not his.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:38:34

He does pay for my phone too, he did say he would send me across 15 per week but that does get forgotten.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:39:13

Crap, reading that it sounds as though he's trying to financially control me. it's just the way it's gone tho.

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 12:49:09

Would he pay if you asked him? Tell him you want a night away on your own to think and you need him to pay for the hotel room.

If he won't, buy something small at the supermarket and get csshback to cover the cost of the room. It won't show as cashback on the statement, just the total amount. He won't even realise. It's underhand and I wouldn't normally recommend it but under these circumstances, if you need the money and he won't give it to you, it's an option.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:50:01

If I asked yes he would. I dont like asking for money!

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 12:51:04

Well from now on, you are going to start valuing yourself a bit more smile

Pagwatch Sat 06-Oct-12 12:52:23

Ffs. Yes he is controlling you financially.

You should be a partnership.
It should be joint money not 'his' money and him choosing to throw you scraps.

Why why why the fuck does any sahm ever tolerate being given fucking pocket money!

Jeez

Pagwatch Sat 06-Oct-12 12:54:19

Sorry. I am not shouting at you, just so frustrated.

I see this constantly on mn and it drives me batty with exasperation.

I would never have had children with dh if he had proposed that I then became financially his child

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:55:35

Is it actually better being alone? I would not be able to manage after my op alone and im scared SS would put them into temp care.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:58:31

I get what you're saying Pag, thank you for being so blunt it's what I need.

I'm really NOT going to tolerate this and I know there are so many threads where the SAHM comes on to complain and you just know despite the advice she will carry on letting it go on. I'm not going to do that, I'm just trying to work out how.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 12:59:57

hes home, off for now.

Pagwatch Sat 06-Oct-12 13:00:48

Gosh no, I am sorry for being ranty.

But you must change it - for your own sake and for your girls. They are watching how you live and thinking that is what it is to be in a relationship.

I do wish you strength and hope you can sort this out.

sleeplessinsuburbia Sat 06-Oct-12 13:09:47

I've been reading all the great advice. I especially like quintessential's speech.

I would recommend a letter rather than talk, you can take your time and word it really well. A few things spring to mind; you must mention that you are being emotionally abused and label him an abuser. You must mention that you are in pain every day. All day long. Ask him to tell you all the ways he has tried to comfort you and support you through this. He is a cheater, he set off to have an affair but was turned down. He must accept that. The money situation sounds terrible too.

Ask him to come up with a list of how he can rebuild your trust in him, support you through your pain and what exactly he will do during your recovery. Have it broken down to what he will do daily, weekly and as needed. i would personally ask him to go to his parents for a few days and explain to them why he is there (he cheated on his sick wife). I wouldn't sleep with him again until I was fully recovered from the op and only if he had done every single thing in the list always. Or you can leave him.

Good luck.

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 13:16:25

Agree with Pagwatch too.

My dh earns three times what I do and all our money is pooled into a joint account. It is ours, not his. We pay all bills and food, clothes etc. and whatever is left over we spend as and when we like. If it's a big purchase (say more than £50 on one item) we discuss before we buy. It's a partnership.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 13:16:37

I am still here just on my phone. You are right about the girls thinking this is ok.

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 13:19:16

hes home, off for now

Why?

Can't you be on mn if he's home?

CookieRookie Sat 06-Oct-12 13:20:04

OP I've been through a pretty shitty 20 years. The list of things I thought would break me is far too long to recount. I found myself in my car at 4 o'clock in the morning beside the bridge thinking I should just do it, drive on into the water and hope I died quickly. I thought about NCing before posting that but you know what? It happened, I thought it, I felt alone, I felt weak, scared, tired, defeated, lost, hopeless and I won't deny it to myself or anyone else because it is a very real part of my journey that I cannot forget, it's important to me to remember the worst times. Thankfully the thoughts of leaving my dd alone stopped me.

I spent years crying myself to sleep while dd's father lived it up, not a care in the world, dd adoring him and hating me because I was the disciplinarian (sp?), hearing back all the horrible lies he told about me while I struggled to justify my existance in dd's life. What good was I to her? She idolised him and his new partner. They could do no wrong. The house was a mess. I didn't get dressed some days and fed her take away because I couldn't bring myself to cook a dinner. I was in pain emotionally and physically. I got fatter and fatter, I chain-smoked, was on AD's, I spent all my money on dd, lavishing her with expensive gifts to make up for the failure I was. I slept with men just to have the company of another adult, feel wanted in some way and not so alone. The only light in my life was dd.

I thought about going back to her father just to have help, company, intimacy, conversation. He asked lots, something always stopped me...the way he had treated me in the past. He had no regard for me, slagged me off to all his friends, stayed out late getting pissed and chatting up other woman, didn't help in the house, with dd, with money. He was and always will be a useless bastard but many times when I was at my lowest with not an ounce of self-worth or self-esteem left I was prepared to put up with it. Thankfully I din't entertain the thought for long.

The next few years where pretty much the same. Crying, AD's, lonely. Slowly I began to realise the only person who could help me was me. I needed to believe in myself before life would change. I needed to protect myself and start feeling worthy of good things again. I had to let go of the 'settling for' attitude I had developed over my lifetime and realise if I wanted people to treat me differently I had to start saying 'NO'. I had to show them I believed in me, I was strong and I knew my own worth. You know why? Because I realised my dd would learn how to be a woman based on what I showed her, not what I told her. I couldn't continue to be a person who had no interest in herself. let other people walk all over her and struggle miserablely through life if I wanted my dd to grow up knowing she was an amazing, capable woman who could do anything and had self-respect and inner strength to get her through life's tough times. We don't lie down and give up. We get up, say 'NO' to the hurters and move on with determination.

I've said it before on here, we are not just mothers once we give birth, wives once we marry. We are still individuals in our own right, we are worthy of all good things and deserve only the best. Many of us have to fight to attain the best things for us but it is that fight that makes us the warriors that we are, the powerful woman and good examples that we are.

I say to you. You are worthy of great things. You are powerful, more powerful than you believe right now, trust me. You deserve the best and you owe it to your children to show them how we allow other people to treat us - with respect for a start. I think you're afraid to be alone, don't be. Aloneness can be a life-saver if you take advantage of it. Use the time as a marker - this is the beginning of the new me. Maybe not immediately a healthier you because I know you have an operation coming up but for the moment, a mentally stonger you. Remind youself of all the brave things you have done and been through. Picture yourself as a child and remember she is still within you. You can change how she feels about herself. If you were her parent what would you say to her to keep her strong and steer her in the direction of good people, good thoughts, good things?

I don't entertain dd's father anymore. He is not worthy of my words or my thoughts. He hurt me, he betrayed me. After many long years of loneliness and thinking I would be alone forever and my dd would never have a happy mum I'm happy to say I went to college, am now in a profession I love, am happily married to someone who deserves me and is my best friend and dd is almost a teenager. Things can still be hairy sometimes, that's life but I get through them knowing I can do anything I put my mind, heart and soul into, so can you.

Stand up for yourself today. Start by saying 'NO'.

All the very best to you smile

Doha Sat 06-Oct-12 13:20:41

Put the sodding hotel/B&B on the credit card.
This is classed as an emergency.
Your future is at stake.
There is not much more (apart from the obvious) that can be classed as an emergency

Wow, Cookie, respect to you!

Stropzilla, I have nothing else to add to the excellent advice you've had here, except that you sound lovely and someone out there is waiting to find a woman just like you that he can cherish.

Oh and I agree with the credit card. Buy some nice clothes and a new haircut too wink

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 13:37:03

Cookie that's amazing. Thank you for sharing

Faire I just don't want him reading over my shoulder.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 14:02:12

Tall, cherished sounds right, I used that word when I was talking to a friend. I want to feel cherished. Someone who can scoop me up, and make me feel...something! Right now I feel very little. Even my lovely daughters are wearing on me today.

PrincessSymbian Sat 06-Oct-12 14:07:51

For the love of God, book the hotel room, leave him with the girls for tonight and go and start thinking about all the things that you DESERVE that you are not getting. And get the haircut and clothes as well!

Proudnscary Sat 06-Oct-12 14:56:37

I know it all seems so daunting and terrifying and impossible to leave him, Strop. But it can be done, you can do it. You do not have to live with this shit.

We are all being blunt, harsh even, because you need to hear the truth of your situation. You need to be dragged out of your fog, shaken out of your inertia, your acceptance and your fear.

I also get so bloody angry at this 'it's his money' crap. I have said this about 10 billion times on MN - I work FT, high earning career. My husband is at home and earns a fifth of my salary in own business.

Our money is our money!! It's family money. I have never and would never consider it my money - if he hadn't been at home with kids I wouldn't have been able to pursue my career anyway! We are a team. Equal partners.

50shadesofgreyhair Sat 06-Oct-12 14:57:43

CookieRookie - bless you for sharing your story. Read her post Strop, and read it again, and then take her advice.

garlicbutty Sat 06-Oct-12 15:10:32

Dear Stropzilla, men in the past have talked to me about their wives like he talked about you. I cut them short - not criticising your friend, btw, he sounds overbearing - because it disgusts me. I find it repulsive that a man would think so badly of his own wife, seemingly unaware of how low-value it makes him (a lousy wife is the best he could get?!) and how feeble his complaints (they always are). Men who do this are revolting. And you're married to one, giving him blow jobs even sad

I hope you've booked yourself a very nice room by now, with dinner a la carte and a spa pass. It's the least you deserve.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 15:18:57

We are trying to talk. He has turned it around telling me I'm controlling but can't give me an example and I was hormonal and angry that's why he's backed off.

Funnylittleturkishdelight Sat 06-Oct-12 15:25:50

Leave. He isn't sorry and doesn't deserve you or your children. If he puts nothing into the relationship, why should he get anything out of it?

Go.

50shadesofgreyhair Sat 06-Oct-12 15:27:28

Of course he'll try and turn it around. Is he really worth the effort it takes to talk to him? Book yourself in the best hotel in town, drink the mini bar dry, order the entire bloody menu and stick it all on his card. Because you're worth it. And take a friend. Take ten. Just look after yourself and put yourself first.

Pagwatch Sat 06-Oct-12 15:27:54

Well tbh you can't say 'we are not trying to talk'
you are trying to talk. He is trying to evade and deflect

Pagwatch Sat 06-Oct-12 15:28:20

Sorry - 'we are trying to talk'

Doha Sat 06-Oct-12 15:30:21

Twat
This is probably just another example of him turning things around and blaming it on ou. If you think about it there has probably been may other times.
Time to draw a line under things and move on WITHOUT him. He is bring ing you down. You cannot talk to someone who is not prepared to listen.
Go away for the night-consider your options. Hopefully by tomorrow you will have realised that there in no place for this man in your life

Whocansay Sat 06-Oct-12 15:42:32

Apologies if this has been said, but I just wanted to point out that he's only been faithful because the other women didn't want him. If they'd have wanted him, is he really suggesting he wouldn't have been up for it?

Of course, these are the only occasions you are aware of. They may or may not be others. Have you asked him?

I hope that you're able to get some thinking time.

CheerfulYank Sat 06-Oct-12 15:47:06

I would be incandescent with rage if my Dh ever said anything like that to one of my friends. Fucking nuclear blast of righteous anger. How dare he? I would never ever complain about my dh to one of his friends or say anything remotely sexual to them.

It is a violation of your marriage vows and just being a decent person, frankly.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 15:48:44

Whocansay yes I asked him. He told me it was only talking and it had not happened with anyone else.

I can't go anywhere it's all booked!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Oct-12 15:50:12

I'm blown away by Cookie's post. So wonderful to see that she's out into the light now. So inspirational.

Stropzilla... I think you're at great risk of letting this man confuddle you. What is the point in trying to talk to him at the moment? He is taking charge, as per usual, and you are running along behind him, reacting to his comments without taking your own stand.

Would you feel better if you took your girls with you to the hotel for the night? If so - do it. Until you stop letting this man dictate the pace, you're in no fit state to actually think about what it is that you want. It isn't going to change, you know that. Will you really settle for the uneasy kind of 'truce' that temporarily disguises the real life problems?

I know it's hard to read that you are showing your girls how to behave but it really is true. What do you want them to see? For myself, I'd rather have regrets over doing something perhaps I shouldn't have than not doing something I most definitely should have.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Oct-12 15:54:00

Shopzilla... There ARE other hotels and ways to get to them. There are many hotels. Find one. Take his card and stop off at an ATM to get cash so that you're not without money.

Have you tried 'laterooms'? I use this a lot for work. If you're planning to stay tonight you get really cheap deals because it's last minute.

Pagwatch Sat 06-Oct-12 15:55:52

Lyingwitch is right.
There are no hotels just does not sound plausible.

Why do you not want to go now?

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 15:57:12

There are indeed places on laterooms. 2 of them and I cant afford either.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 16:00:06

Checking other places because I can't run to £491.

Doha Sat 06-Oct-12 16:00:18

Use credit card Strop

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Oct-12 16:06:15

Does your husband have a car? Borrow it. Then you can widen the hotel search - 10/15/20 miles is not significant if you have transport.

There are cheaper hotels than THAT. I stay in Central London for a quarter of that, last minute.

Instead of finding obstacles (which is pretty common for a woman when doing anything good for herself), imagine that you're doing this for your daughters and see the 'hitches' disappear.

Of course, you have to decide that you're going to do this (for one night). If you don't want to, you'll find every reason not to. In that event, stop pretending to yourself.

Seeing as he has turned it around on you, not sure I would leave the marital home and the kids in this situation.

Better if he is asked to leave to give you some space and time to think.

Whocansay Sat 06-Oct-12 16:10:27

Can you not just stay at your mum's with the kids? Or with a friend?

It would be a good idea to talk to someone in real life anyway. You need support.

'Only talking'. What a cock. Phone sex is also 'only talking', but it wouldn't make it OK. I'm so angry for you!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Oct-12 16:17:51

I'm angry for you too, OP. He IS only faithful to you because he has no choice. You have no idea of the outcome were another woman to entertain his overtures. angry

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 16:20:27

I don't drive, and it's not our house it's rented.

Bit of a new development, we have moved on to jewelery. I lost my engagement ring, which was given to me in the worst place, in the most unromantic way possible. It was the cheapest ring available. I was just doing DD2 bottle, when he gave me a box saying he was going to wait for the right time but I should have this now, and gave me a replacement ring. It's definately nicer but it's second hand and dented. FFS some effort would have been good.

Tis nice and sparkly tho. Just what I might have chosen for myself. But it's going back.

PrincessSymbian Sat 06-Oct-12 16:26:45

Use the credit card and let him worry about how to pay it. You would not be in this situation if it were not for his behaviour.

Funnylittleturkishdelight Sat 06-Oct-12 16:29:19

Strop send HIM away for the night. You need to get yourself into a stronger position- you need to learn how to drive and sort the finances out. It sounds like you are trapped into this marriage- you're staying because going is hard work- but staying with a man who clearly doesn't respect or value you (where is his fucking remorse ffs) is going to be much much harder in the long run.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Oct-12 16:29:26

He's disgusting, Shopzilla. A decent man would not do this; use the romance of an engagement to deflect from the situation. What he's done is the equivalent of jingling a bunch of keys in your face. He thinks you're that stupid.

He will never make an effort for you because he doesn't think you're worth it - and you seem to agree with him.

I wish you well, I really do, but you're not serious about making him see that you are not going to take it anymore. Perhaps just having a bit of a rant on here is enough for you, it wouldn't be for me. I hope you'll be able to reflect even if you can't take it in right now. MN advice sometimes penetrates the darkest corners, despite the resistance that is put up - I know this and am grateful for it. smile

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 16:52:14

I asked why there was no effort. It's my fault again because I've made him feel there was no point.

I'm not going to whack a load on the credit card I just can't bring myself to didn't it. I am upstairs looking for somewhere else in a different location.

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 16:54:55

If his initial 'proposal' was so dismal, I'm wondering why you married him in the first place. He's obviously always been like this and isn't going to change.

Stropzilla Sat 06-Oct-12 16:57:03

I didn't realise at the time Fairenuff. I knew he wasn't hugely romantic that's fine. I thought he'd made it funny and sweet but now I realise it was just not being bothered. He's even since admitted it was crap.

Fairenuff Sat 06-Oct-12 17:06:07

I asked why there was no effort. It's my fault again because I've made him feel there was no point

Do you know what? I would ask him why he is with you if you're so crap that he has to complain to other about you.

Ask him why he hangs around.

strop

I am wondering what you yourself learnt about relationships when growing up. He has trained you well hasn't he.

He hangs around because he gets what he wants from the relationship i.e every opportunity to use and abuse you (and by turn your children as well). He is actively enjoying seeing your discomforture. You have given him permission to carry on absuing you by not leaving him. What has kept you within this up till now, the house?. Your house is akin to a warzone, it is not a home nor sanctuary for your children.

He is patently not an amazing dad either if he treats you like this. Women in abusive relationships usually write such justifying to themselves guff in their initial post when they themselves have absolutely nothing positive to write about their man.

Both of you are teaching your children damaging lessons currently about relationships. Is this the role model you want to teach the next generation?.

You will never be happy unless you ditch the 12 or so stone of deadweight that you are carrying around your neck i.e your H.

Enlist the help too of Womens Aid - they can and will help you here.

50shadesofgreyhair Sat 06-Oct-12 18:33:30

Strop - you need to stay firm and keep repeating to him that for your relationship to survive, he needs to go somewhere tonight, so that you have head space. You really do need this time to think things through, and take it from one who's been there, it's amazing how differently you see things when the person causing all the pain is out of the home. Would he do this? If not, ask him why he doesn't want to respect your need, and that you want to work things out, but he needs to go in order to do so. If he won't - could you go to a friends tonight? Or a family member? He needs to know that the time has come for make or break, and he needs to finally respect and listen to your desires. And your main one, right now, is space for clarity of thought.

sleeplessinsuburbia Sun 07-Oct-12 04:31:18

So he proposed once in a crap way with a crap ring, then did it again to make things better???? Oh dear.

Proudnscary Sun 07-Oct-12 07:23:38

How are you Stropzilla?

Offred Sun 07-Oct-12 09:14:47

Gosh, have just found this. He seems narcissistic. Everything in your lives is about him. He also is inadequate at work, and the nice parts of your relationship you list are grandiose but empty gestures when real things that are required of him are not done those things ring alarm bells to me.

He is deliberately abusing you because you are vulnerable in order to make himself feel more of a man because he feels small at work. The porn and the sex messages coupled with the types of words he says "I'm sorry you feel that way" make me think he does not think women are people of equal status.

I don't think there is any coming back from this. I think you should ask him to leave.

You and he both should really objectively assess what he contributes to your life; from my perspective worse than not helping he actually harms you, and worse than that he does it deliberately in order to make himself feel better.

"Oh he's a great dad" no, no he really isn't, he's an abusive bully. I worry you are not even safe with him because he exhibits some sexually abusive characteristics and gets angry with you when you assert yourself. Please call women's aid and get their support to get him out.

Whocansay Sun 07-Oct-12 09:16:34

How are you this morning Strop? I hope that you were able to get some space?

CookieRookie Sun 07-Oct-12 09:37:05

How are you today Strop?

Stropzilla Sun 07-Oct-12 11:23:54

Thank you all for your messages I have listened and will update later.

CaliforniaLeaving Tue 09-Oct-12 02:34:28

Hows it going today?

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