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Found out that my fiance is 280k in debt - what happens should I still marry him?(344 Posts)
Last night my fiance confessed that he is 280k in debt. I am devastated and consider not to marry him anymore. Although we always kept our finances separate and I don't mind marrying him with the debt I am a bit worried that I will be liable for the debt as well. I am not English and therefore not sure how it's handled in the UK. I have assets that I would like to protect.
How shall I handle this situation?
How??? Why??? And what's he planning to do about it?
Would be the questions I'd want answered, and until I got the answers the wedding would definitely be off.
Put things on hold, investigate thoroughly and be careful.
And only just found out? How long have you been in a relationship with this guy that he's been keeping it a secret from you?
And, just out of interest, how does one get £280K in debt?
Err, no you shouldn't marry him.
what kind of a debt? If its a mortgage secured on a house of at least that value and he can afford the repayments then I don't see the problem. If he has unsecured debt at high interest rates with baillifs on his door step then as DorsetKnob says "Run like the wind"
I don't understand how he got as far as being your fiance without this coming out?
That's so, so much money. How did it happen? Ice the wedding plans for now.
That's a lot of money.
If it were me I would not marry someone with so much debt - it's not just a couple of credit card debts is it.
You need to find out why?
Did he lie to you or deliberately hide it from you? If so, that's a big deal and possibly a deal breaker.
I married a man with money troubles (not as much as your fiancées though admittedly) and my Dad wisely said "when poverty comes in the door, love flies out the window" and I think that's pretty true. Of course you still love each other through financial difficulty but it does put an enormous pressure on a relationship. If your relationship is already damaged through deception about the debt then it may be really tough to stay together.
It's up to you and I'm rubbish at advice so ill just hand hold til someone wise comes along.
No way would I marry him. Have you any idea where the debt comes from?
Can he declare himself bankrupt before you marry him?
That's quite some sum. He's either stupid or dishonest.
no. Don't marry him.
why didn't he tell you sooner?
If it is mortgage on a house worth more than the debt, then that should be affordable for him.
I would run as fast as I can. I am so sorry but this is how I really feel.
More infom needed - WHERE did the debt come from, is he ever likely to be able to pay it off, how long have you known him without him telling you about this.........
Do not marry him. Do not tie yourself to this person.
How has he got so much debt?
Has he hid it from you or just not told you? Do you live together? how long have you been together?
definitely do not marry him unless he has declared himself bankrupt beforehand as scarlettsmummy said, and even then take legal advice.
He said a business deal went wrong. However I know about his lavish spending, an expensive watch here, renting a flat in Mayfair, buying only bespoke suits an so on and therefore don't believe his story. He is ashamed and didn't want me to know. He is trying to live the same lifestyle he had while he still lived with his parents. He went to a private school where children from very wealthy parents went to and although his family is well off he always felt insecure. I don't care about whether he has money or not. I am just worried that I will be liable for the debt as well once we are married. I don't earn much at the moment (I'm a nanny and still studying) but I own and co-own properties and money from an inheritance.
In answer to your question: fuck no!
And, so he's seriously in debt (I have to say I don't consider a mortgate counts as debt so presume this isn;t what you're talking about), what's your finiacial position? What might you be bringing to the financial table?
Don't tie yourself financially to someone so bad with money.
My god, how can someone you intend on marrying have kept this from you?
Cancel the wedding.
I hope you haven't got any joint assets or bank accounts.
He never had to lie to me about money. We kept our finances separate from Day One and I don't know how much is in his bank account and he doesn't know about my finances either.
Absolutely not then. He will continue to live beyond his means.
He needs to declare himself bankrupt and then prove to you that he is a reformed character or he will bleed you dry...
And again no.
No way would i marry someone with that much debt.
leave him : he's an idiot who didn't listen to his accountant, who'd have told him to limit his liability.
would he listen to you on financial issues? that strength of error says not.
I wish it was a mortgage. He said a business deal went wrong, but I am not stupid and as he owns limited companies he wouldnt be responsible for it with his personal assets.
He sounds too immature to get married. I couldn't marry someone who lived so outrageously above their means, I simply couldn't abide the childishness of it.
How did he get £280k in debt? Who is the debt too?
How long hve you been with him?
I'm sorry to say this but I think he'll be after your money. The law is very unclear in the UK on protection of assets owned by one marriage partner before the marriage. (If you're interested and can look on BBC online there was a radio programme about this may be a week ago? which perhaps you can listen again). Pre-nup agreements MAY be attended to but not necessarily. Basically this is just stuff I've picked up from the media but my advice would be to see a lawyer and find out what happens to your assets if you marry. This will help you make a decision about marriage. Then you can make an emotional decision about the relationship, because at the moment you are getting them mixed up.
I wouldn't marry him, sounds like a nightmare and whilst I don't think you'd be liable for debts under his name, you certainly would be if you ever bought anything together, had a joint account etc...
He's just a spendthrift and will never change. you will always have differing attitudes towards money and he probably has loads of other issues which have not come to the fore if he can rack up that much debt on basically just living and shopping
He said a business deal went wrong, but I am not stupid
so you know he is lying to you?
definitely don't marry him!!
I would seek proper financial advice. Maybe a pre-nuptual agreement (sounds a bit Hollywood) may be worth exploring? I would say that he hasn't lied to you but he hasn't been upfront; what else could you discover further down the line?. Exercise caution - the wedding can wait. If you love each other and can support each other then that is worth fighting for. It may make or break you but you should be prepared for either and only time can tell. I wish you luck.
With the additional info, never marry him.
Run like the wind. He is irresponsible and is not owning up to what happened. He is lying to you. He is trying to deceive you now. He is terrible with money and you have assets.
Run away unless you want to find yourself 'Mrs No assets left and £1 million in debt' in a couple of years time.
This is worth ending the relationship over, imvho.
I'd love to think love would pull people through anything, but at that level I think a degree of sense has to come into it.
I can't really remember, but I'm sure at one stage I was about £30-40k in debt and I thought it was insanely high. I somehow managed to clear it but £280k??? You are going to be stiffed, surely. The only way to protect your family money/assets I would guess is to get them held in trust. Marriage would surely open you up a lot more, for potential liability.
It would put me off starting a family with him, hugely.
Pre-nups do not currently HAVE to be taken into account in the UK.
The fact that the OP knows about the debt would probably come down in his favor. Or more than had hid it until they married.
I am a nanny and I earn 25k a year and I have rental income. I don't pay rent and apart from a Payday loan I had to take out in summer and paid back in within 24h I've never had any debts. I have on credit card but I pay it off every month and I really just use it to improve my credit rating in the UK so that I can get a mortgage later on in life. However I inherited a large amount of money and properties last year which I would like to protect. They have been in my family for decades and my mother would not be happy if I would end up losing them.
he might be responsible for it even with a limited company. Nothing to stop him personally guaranteeing a loan even for a limited company.
Eitehr way if its not reputable debt (eg mortgage) and you have only just find out, at the very least I would put marriage plans on hold until he has a credible plan to repay it. At worst I would say that you are linking yourself to an untrustworthy financial fuckwit (technical accountants term).
OP please do not financially involved yourself with him.
I honestly think he is going to financially (and emotionally) ruin you.
OP, it's very hard to tell on the internet, so apologies if this sounds crass, but would you say you are a pretty obviously moneyed person yourself? You say you have properties and an inheritance - he may not know about them in detail, but you must have mentioned them in passing to him. If so, I also think there is a chance he is after your money. Definitely postpone the wedding and speak to a solicitor asap.
How did you find out? What was his reaction like? Tears? Trying to laugh it off?
I would run like I was being chased by a thousand flaming bailiffs.
If you actually love him and want to marry him, then:
(i) he should declare himself bankrupt before you marry
(ii) you should put all your significant assets in some kind of protection e.g. a trust which will only give you a set income, or a house which is in your name only
(iii) you should keep your finances separate, permanently.
If you aren't prepared to do those things then either don't marry him or you'll be looking forward to some quite deep poverty yourself before too long.
As Eugenes said - prenups have no legal status in the UK - you cannot legally "contract" anything to do with a marriage (except the marriage itself). However since a supreme court ruling in 2010 a precedent was set that pre-nups could have "decisive or compelling weight". But there's no guarantee.
NellyJob He is lying because he is embarrased. He thinks I only love him because of "his" money. That's not true. I don't care. I realise that he sounds like a real idiot at the moment, but apart from the financial issues he is a great guy. I am not a girl that's madly in love, otherwise I wouldn't ask people on here for advice but go straight ahead and marry him. No wedding is planned yet as I wanted to wait until next year. I am glad that we didn't rush and I found out this bombshell before we got married.
run run run! - he has debt, a very doubtful story (a nice watch here and there and a flat in mayfair, would take a matter of weeks to run up that sort of debt, its all 'flash and no cash') and you have money - he has his eye to the main chance, get shot lovey!
He said it was a business debt but you think he's lying, in essence.
Please don't marry somebody who lies to you.
twllbach if she marries him that's probably what would happen.
OP seriously, why would you want to marry him if you still suspect he is lying. He could at least respect you enough to tell you the truth.
Sorry, it sounds like he is after your money, there will be more than him being a spendthrift going on, probably a persinality disorder, don't marry him, dine out on the lucky escape.
DameKewcumber Nothing to stop him personally guaranteeing a loan even for a limited company.
True. One whopping big personally guaranteed loan is possible. In which case the OP needs more from this guy than the vague "business deal went wrong" bullshit .
Of course, personal loans to a business often occur when the bank has decided it's too much of a risk to loan.
He thinks I only love him because of "his" money.
I smell a red herring. I think he is with you because you have the ability to sort this for him.
He is saying that he thinks you are only with him for the money to throw the off.
I don't normally do advice giving, but surely if you are planning a future together you have to do some honest financial planning for now and for your future. I would want to know what his plans are to clear this debt. Be clear that your assets are not part of that plan. Postpone wedding plans until there is commitment from him to deal with this. Trust is a big part of any relationship, this will be a real test for both him and you.
"Of course, personal loans to a business often occur when the bank has decided it's too much of a risk to loan." - yes I did think that but was too lazy to write it!
Who wanted to rush getting married, him?
I think you will be jointly liable, yes.
There will be detail about whether it's personal or business debt but basically what's his is yours and vice versa, if you marry. You will be able to protect your assets but you'd need to see a good solicitor about this and be absolutely sure. Don't believe any vague assurances that it will be ok.
I think you need to imagine what will happen if it all goes wrong. If you have a child he could fight for custody solely in order to get access to your assets for example. Nobody marries a person they know is horrible, everybody thinks their partner is "great" when the marry them, obviously. But they can turn out to be very horrible indeed when push comes to shove!
Did he propose to you before or after you inherited the properties?
It's very easy to hide debt. After filing divorce papers on my ExH he went nuts as he didn't want to involve solicitors. Turned out he was almost £70K in debt - and he ran this up in just over 2yrs of marriage (might have been to do with his OW and her being pregnant with him!).
We ended up in court over maintenance and and it was horrendous as even more lies came out. I suspect you've not heard half the story and think there will be more to come. I feel you might be disappointed so maybe just hold off the wedding for a bit. (Money is another OW - it can invoke horribly deceitful behaviour)
You wouldn't become legally liable for any debts run up pre marriage but could become liable for any further debt depending if he takes it jointly. Having said that a charging order could be placed on any jointly held assets (which may then have to be sold to repay the debt). It's a grey area as to what is jointly owned after marriage but it would seem anything but personal possessions, property and cars (that latter have legal registered owners) would be at risk.
MadBusLady I inherited last autumn, before that I only had savings from my parents for uni, he knew about it but not how much. I don't talk about my finances. When we go out, we split the bill. Same with holidays etc. We got together before I inherited so I don't assume he is after my money.
If I were you, I would stay with him, but not marry him until he has managed to clear his debts. That way, you will never be liable for them, and he will not need to "borrow" from you. Helping him to get his debts cleared will be a way of showing you care, but also that you don't approve of big debts.
and to be fair I don't think it very likely that £280k is a result of loans into a limited company.
I have a friend and an ex like this (is you DP in property by any chance?). Friend is now bankrupt with family home (owned by company) repossessed, sadly ex is still solvent.
Property industry in the small scale seesm to rely on shysters loaning money directly to suckers to put into their business so if business goes bust, money is still owed to said shyster.
Do NOT marry him - tell him he needs to clear it all before the marriage and see how keen he is then......if his businesses are so sucessfull it should be done within a workable time frame.......
So will you be paying for your wedding?! Run, run like the wind!!
apart from the financial issues he is a great guy
You won't be thinking this when you are married to him and you can't get school shoes for your kids, or put petrol in your car.
Fair enough, BornToShop. I'd still see a solicitor about protecting your property IF the marriage were to go ahead though. And at the same time decide how you're going to get more details out of him and what would have to happen for you to be satisfied.
What a shock.
I would not marry someone who lies and who tried to impress people with expensive watches, flats, suits and lavish spending even if they could afford it. It is too shallow and tacky.
I know. This is why I've asked for advice what's the best thing to do. We are both still young, so children won't be in the near future anyway but still. That's what I don't want to happen.
So he decided to commit his life to you after you became quite well off yourself?
When did the business deal fall through? How long has this debt been hanging around?
If the debt could be wiped out tomorrow by a win on the lottery, I still wouldn't marry him.
1. He has lied to you. Not a small lie - a huge one.
2. He cannot handle money and will get into debt again.
Children may be a while away, but what about when you can't afford rent or the mortgage payment?
I am trying to talk to him now but he doesn't want to tell me anything. He says it is none of my business and it was a business deal it would be written off soon anyway. I am so upset, he has been such a great guy to me in all the time we are together and now this happened in the last 24h. I haven't eaten all day and I wish there would be
more wine in the house.
Sallyingforth i couldn't agree more.
Its not about the actual money. Its about him.
He sounds shallow and completely motivated by money and possessions. That's why I think he proposed to you once you inherited some quite substantial assets.
If you marry him, he will get into debt again and lie to you about it. When he can't lie any more and he's facing ruin, you'll feel obliged to bail him out with your inheritance. Especially if you have children with him by then.
This person is not a good person. Don't marry him.
He is being defensive and patronising, OP. Not good signs.
I don't suppose it would help to go to family/friends for the weekend and talk it over/sleep on it? This must have been such a shock.
I would keep my finances separate anyway. My mother is married for 18 years to her DH now and has always kept her own bank account. We don't live together all week, I am a live-in nanny at the moment and therefore live with my employers during the week. I am still studying by distance learning and I need the space in the evening. We have lived together before I lived in Brussels last year.
Please don't marry him until this is sorted out. How would you feel if when you did marry him, his debts became your debts, and you lost everything? And even then, I'm willing to bet his attitude to money will not change.
Please have some respect for yourself and don't get married.
Sorry if i missed this earlier in the thread but How did you find out?
Definitely don't marry. Even if he manages to clear the debt he may always have the potential to get into more debt if it's part of his personality to spend, spend, spend. Once he's in more debt and you're married his debt is your debt, and your assets are his assets. Do you actually have to get married? I mean if you're worried about any future kids having a different surname etc you could always change yours by deed poll. Ive met a couple of people who have done this, they essentially pretend they are married and other people just assume they are because they have the same name. Of course there are other legal things you may need (eg legal agreements detailing who gets what in the event of separation, a will is a must if you wish him to inherit in the event of your death - and vice versa - since he won't automatically inherit - there's no such thing as a common-law spouse). Obviously if marriage is for religious or cultural reasons you don't have that option but it's just my thought.
* He says it is none of my business and it was a business deal it would be written off soon anyway.*
None of your business? do you not see OP what marrying him will be like? How dare he? and I would want proof that this happened in the last 24hrs
We are both still young
This makes it even more staggering that he's managed to run up such an enormous debt.
This must be devastating for you and I do really feel for you. But he's a wrong 'un and if you tie yourself to him you have to accept that his attitude to money is unlikely to change.
Oh my fucksy, that is a lot of money!
This is a problem. Regardless of whether you will be liable for the debts - will you ever be able to have a stable future with someone who may not be responsible enough to make sure the bills and the mortgage is paid? And who lies to you about his spending? I would get out while you still can, or at the very least put the wedding on hold.
I am sure he will. My mother's current DH can't handle money either, however he is not in debt. So I know that people like that are unlikely to change.
All this has happened to me in the last 24h, before that I had the best partner I could imagine... I can not believe that I was so stupid. I feel ashamed for wearing my engagement ring, who is worth a little fortune and he probably hasn't paid for with his money either.
See I agree about the lying but that is a reason to not be in a relationship with him to me. The debt is the reason not to marry because marriage is primarily a legal and financial commitment.
I would keep my finances separate anyway
OP that's not always possible when married. Its actually quite difficult to keep finances, completely legally separate.
You could ask the citizen's advice bureau whether your be liable for his pre-wedding debts.
Even if not, and he has changed and will no longer spend money he can't afford on trying to impress people, unless he can magically make the debt disappear, it will affect you. It'll affect how much money you jointly have for rent or a mortgage, for holidays and nights out. For the things you should be doing while young and living in London.
If he has demonstrated that he has a plan to repay the debt, I'd be tempted to suggest continuing the relationship with a view to marrying when the debt is cleared or almost cleared, but 280k could take a lifetime to pay off. Is he currently working in a well-paid job?
I mean that I've found out about this. I don't know when the actually 280k of debt thing happened. He doesn't tell me.
If you're going to marry him - or anyone - you need to share your financial backgrounds/situations. That doesn't mean that you have to share everything, but you do need to know what is going on.
I would say that you shouldn't even consider marrying him at the moment, until you know exactly what is going on. And given your own financial portfolio you need to be very careful about marrying him, if you want to keep this safe.
Personally I would be seeing an IFA for more help/guidance here - to protect your inheritance.
Run like the wind, you do not need this guy in your life.
Put it roughly, he owes your yearly wage eleven times over. That is a hell of a lot of money. That's a whole house in some parts of the UK.
Seriously, don't marry him!
He owns companies. So I always assumed that things were going well.
Do not marry him.
He has lied to you, and he is dismissive when you try to find out what has happened. Why would you share your life with him?
'The wedding venue are on the phone saying they haven't had the deposit'
'What is this huge pile of bills on the doorstep?' when you come back from honeymoon.
Knock at the door, you opening it holding a 2 week old baby, and it is debt collectors chasing your now husband.
Is that the life you want?
dine out on the lucky escape.
Great saying, and I agree.
Don't marry this man. He is dishonest and it won't end well.
Do you want to have children in the future? If so (and even if not) protect your assets, cos life has a funny way of going pear-shaped when you least expect it.
Like you said, this is family money that you inherited. You have a duty to protect it from predators.
As an aside, I don't understand that UK has no possiblitily of a pre-nup. I live in a continental European country where you have the choice of either marrying with or without a pre-nup.
With a pre-nup, at least you know then he's not marrying you to get his grubby hands on your inheritance/assets should it go tits-up, and your children will be protected.
DP & I own a company. It's not an indicator of anything except the ability to fill in a form and pay a £10 admin fee.
Gosh BornToShop having read more I really do feel for you. Tbh between after posting my first post and reading the thread not only do I think you shouldn't marry him, he doesn't even sound reliable and honest enough to be in a serious relationship with. Sorry I don't mean to be rude. I'm staggered at him saying it's none of your business. He sounds too secretive to me.
Uk does have a prenup but they are not necessarily recognised in the courts.
OP he is not a good person.
I KNOW (dh has several businesses) that I would know as soon as any potential problems occurred with his businesses. If something happened that was really drastic and he lost £280 k over night, I KNOW I would be the first to know. I KNOW he would be open, honest and fully transparent about what happened.
He has been like this since we decided to get engaged, three months after we met.
Its not a perfect marriage but I trust him completely and he would not disrespect me with 'its none of your business' while asking me to tie myself to him.
You say you want to put the wedding off, when does he want to marry?
I could not agree more strongly with sookiesookie.
But consider this- he has deceived you, then by omission and now while looking into your eyes. He has not aquired these as 'honest' debts (unforseen and irreprable circumstances) he has caused this by being absolutely feckless wrt his spending. His issues with this will be deep rooted and require work I'm not sure he sounds mature or responsible enough to do. It will often require an overseer of any and all spending and restrictions that will probably have him upping and leaving anyway. Money issues like this will follow you for years and years and affect nearly every financial decision you will make.
You don't care if he has any money, I believe you, but he's so far beyond 'having any money' he is very literally in negative cash now in an incredibly unstable position. I couldn't continue to have a relationship with someone who would lie to me even when they were admitting a huge problem with which they required my help and for which they were asking forgiveness.
He says it is none of your business? Seriously, don't marry this guy.
He may well be lovely in all sorts of other ways. I'm not saying you shouldn't be with him. But do NOT tangle up your financial affairs with his. This man is not ready for marriage - and may never be.
suburb - UK law at the moment assumes that you become a single financial entity when you get married. So say they got married and it broke down after 5 years, the OPs assets would be weighed against her husband's debt before a settlement was agreed.
There is some rumbling about giving pre-nups legal weight, but I don't think anyone has successfully made one stick in court yet although I could be wrong about that.
"I am not a girl that's madly in love, otherwise I wouldn't ask people on here for advice but go straight ahead and marry him"
Don't marry him. That sentence says it all.
And the fact that he is throwing money around when he is so deep in debt tells me that he has no intention of ever paying it off. He is waiting for someone - you or his parents perhaps - to bail him out.
I didn't want to get married soon, I put on a lot of weight, was diagnosed with PCOS and now I am losing the weight, slowly but it is actually happening. I said I wanted to get married as soon as I felt better in my own skin.
He says it is none of my business
Pre nups are still not legally recognised in the UK. There have been recent high profile cases where they have been considered but if you marry him, everything you now own would normally become part of the joint marital assets. You could loose half of everything you now have. There is talk of pre nups becoming recognised in the UK in the future, but the court could still override anything you now agree if circumstances change.
He would also be able to check how much you inherited as information on who owns a property is available to publicly from the Land Registry.
Regardless of this, he has lied to you and your instincts are telling you he is still lying. Trust your instincts. Run.
He actually has clients. I know that as we were often invited to launch parties and PR events of his clients. His clients were not just little "firms" but some well-known and I don't want to write down too much information as I don't want other people to might be able to google it.
Sorry, took so long with post and child I missed the subsequents posts and it all moved on.
Op, he sounds awful and not only would I not marry him I would not continue a relationship with him. I would give myself the opportunity of being single when a good, honest man comes by and to have a relationship with a mature adult that treats me with respect.
I didn't want to get married soon,
if he could pick a time to marry when would it be.
You say you didn't want to marry soon, does he?
borntoshop please don't marry him
You can network, have clients, be getting work even, and still be in trouble. You wouldn't believe the number of bullshitters that swan around at the average PR drinkies (actually you probably would now!)
But this isn't really the point any more is it. The point is that he's now trying to dismiss your concerns and blow you off. Which kind of makes me think there is more to come.
He is not too bothered when we get married, he said that I can decide.
Refusing to talk to you now it is out in the open is incredibly unfair and controlling.
Do not marry him, or his debt will become yours and your assets will get swallowed up.
If I had that much debt and truly loved someone, I wouldn't WANT to marry them until I was clear of it, so that they didn't get dragged down in my own mess.
OP I get invited to parties all the time with DH, some are very well to do clients. Some are just social events, you would think with all the business talk they were all in business together. But they are not. What proof do you have these are clients?
I mean actual proof, not we met at a party.
Has he explained why he wants to get married?
BorntoShop you are avoiding all the pertinent questions.
Does he know how much you are worth?
How long have you been together?
Yes, I know. I just assumed as his clients were well-known that he was doing well and could therefore afford all this. He comes from a well-off family and as we never shared our finances I didn't know about whether he has savings etc. I wish I would have found out earlier.
madbuslady was more forthcoming than I was. Thats what I mean, a social event for bullshitters.
One man we met was talking of investing with dh and his new venture, down to amounts and wanting costings, requesting info from our accountants.
He was in court the following week on fraud charges and is now in prison. He didn't mention that he was actually skint and going to prison.
I tried to demure about it, but it didn't work. A big thanks to madbuslady for returning me to my usual self.
"I am trying to talk to him now but he doesn't want to tell me anything. He says it is none of my business" that alone would be enough for me to put clear water between me and any prospective husband.
Separate finances are neither here nor there. Once you are married pretty much everything is marital assets - separate bank accounts might make it practically more difficult for his creditors (or him!) to get their hands on your money but it doesn't mean they're not legally entitled to it.
Doesn't it worry you that he says its none of your business - well he made it your business by suggesting marriage. What else doesn;t he think you shouldn't know about or worry your pretty little head about?
He doesn't know how much I am worth exactly. But as I own a property abroad and we just spent a holiday there together and he knows my parents, my parents house and whom I inherited from (My granddad was a famous German architect) it is easy to google what I inherited and how much the assets are worth. If that makes sense.
We have been together for nearly three years.
I don't think she is avoiding, Alibaba, I think it's just all a bit shocking. And maybe the answers are not very reassuring.
We can't reassure you, BorntoShop, is the point.
There is no magic legal bullet that makes this ok.
Even if there was, he has lied and is still refusing to give you the full picture.
I think the comments about how you shouldn't marry him because he's flashy and materialistic are a bit off, personally. Whether or not you like his personality traits is your decision.
But he can't afford it, can he. I think you were very perceptive with your initial comments about his schooling, and how it has probably left him with expectations of a lifestyle that his finances can't really support.
As someone who has run my own business and had "big name" clients- it means not a jot. The important thing is whether he is financially responsible. You dint want to mention details, I understand, but earlier I really was asking:
What's his income and how does this compare to his expenses?
Has he demonstrated that he's taking real steps to clear the debt?
I suspect that if you stay with him you'll find he continues to spend recklessly, behave immaturely and have a vague hope that the debt will magically disappear.
A massive warning sign is that he doesn't seem to take responsibility for creating the debt. He has made bad decisions, has he learned from them?
That does make sense.
In your position, I would be worried that he has proposed because he sees you as a meal ticket.
Does he have a plan to pay it off?
Alibaba - I seem to remember reading about a German(?) heiress successfully being able to have her pre-nup held up in a UK court a couple of years ago....
could be wrong though.
Certain things have happened to me recently and I struggle occasionally with depressions. My mother is battling with cancer at the moment and tried to commit suicide last month while I was abroad on holiday. I've had a long, stressful week as I work 60h a week and also study in the evenings. Last night I was really down and was crying to him on the phone for hours. He said that my problems weren't as bad as his and that he would have a reason to kill himself but he wouldn't. When I asked why he told me about the debt. You can guess how bad I feel now.
Are you German? Could you get married in Germany - not sure of the legalities, but if you have a Gütertrennung arrangement in Germany, then you would not be liable for his debts.
You would need expert advice though, to see if the UK courts would accept this.
Bornto - what made him propose? how soon after you inherited did he propose?
I am sorry you are having to deal with this i feel so bad for you.
Ok - forget the debt.
Instead look at how he is treating you. This is not a lovely man who is going to care for you and nurture you. He is a selfish, self-serving little boy.
Do you respect him?
No, no. no.
You have had major health issues and tried to commit suicide and his response was to play misery top trumps and reveal his massive debts?
RUN. Run, don't walk far far away from him.
Oh BorntoShop that is a shitty thing for him to say.
Really wonder if it might be an idea to get away to a friend's this weekend, if you can. You have a lot to process.
Her mother tried to MmeLindor. But still, yes, misery top trumps!
I don't know what's his income. He once said it was about 150k a year. What always concerned me a little bit was that he kept moving around. Since I have known him he has lived in at least 12 different places, if not more.
I don't think he wants to pay the debt off anytime soon. He bought a new camera for about 1,5k on Monday, he bought a new watch worth 8k a couple of weeks ago.
I feel like such an idiot at the moment. For trusting and loving him. I am asking myself what a horrible person I must be that so many bad things have happened to me recently.
I guess he won't stop his lavish spending. He doesnt believe that I love him for what he is, not for what he has.
Oh my god. You were looking to man who wants to spend his life with you for support and he tries to top it?
Forget the debt, he is horrible and there are so many red flags flying. He will become a financially abusive husband. I am sorry but he is already an emotionally abusive dp.
MadBusLady I live with my employers and don't have to leave at the weekend what I usually did. I didn't bother going to him this weekend.
Borntoshop - I am really sorry this has happened and I'm not being flippant in my previous comments. I really and honestly feel sick for you and if I could say 'do this one thing and all will be well' then I would as I have walked in similar shos to yours.
Unfortunately what that experience tells me is - you are about to peer into an as yet undisclosed chasm of shit that you never expected. It doesn't get better. It hurts more to stay than to go.
You know what you feel. You are hurting. You had expetations of a life that has been turned on it's head. Don't let those things together lead to you a decision that will wreck your head, heart and bank account.
So sorry to hear about your mum, horrible thing to be coping with
I think he's revealed to you some of his finances and now regrets it. I honestly don't think he's told you all his debts.
You are very vulnerable right now. You need all your strength to support your mum and deal with your own feigns about her cancer. This situation alone is big enough for you to not consider marrying anyone at the moment.
I could get married in Germany I guess, but I wouldn't want to. I have chosen England as my "home country" and would like to get married her. Most of my friends live here, if not nearly all of them.
I'm really sorry, BorntoShop, but this man doesn't sound like he really and truly loves you for who you are.
You deserve better.
Put wedding on hold for a year and give any reason to everyone for this.
Then see how things pan out without that pressure on either of you.
I bet the 280 is the tip of the iceberg and he's trying to make it sound not so bad. Thing is if he declare bankruptcy and clears his debts before marriage, chances are he'll acquire more and you will be liable for those being his wife. He sounds very irresponsible, he wants to keep up appearances with a place in Mayfair and is willing to go into major debt for it.
I also bet he found out you inherited properties, maybe you said something or let something slip without realizing it, or even someone else you know let slip, one of your family or someone who knows your family. You are his meal ticket, run, run, run.
He isn't very nice, he's dropped a bomb on you with this and is now saying none of your business? If he wants you as his life partner of course it's your business. It would affect your whole life, probably cycles of debt, remorse, paying it off, more debt and on and on.
I'm really sorry Borntoshop I'm afraid you haven't come across a character like him before. I have and came very close to marrying him and he was very charming and I loved him. But if they are as similar as they sound...
"He doesnt believe that I love him for what he is, not for what he has." you are deluding yourself into beleiving that he is spending this money to impress you. He isn't, he's spending money he hasn't got because he likes having this stuff. It isn't anything to do with you and its unlikely to change. His lifestyle is the way it is for the simple reason that he likes it this way.
oh, sorry. I misread. Still, I cannot believe that he would be so uncaring.
Even earning that kind of money, he would have to drastically reduce his spending to have any hope of paying back his debt. He could live well on £50k and pay back £100k a year.
But he won't. I can tell you that now.
Thank you. Are you the BIWI from the LC Bootcamp? Maybe you can understand that after today I just had to eat three slices of bread with honey. My stomach feels a bit better now.
OP he does think you are with him for money. That is him challenging you.
He is saying 'go on prove you are with me for me and not money and stay' if you leave he can say it was only for money. If you stay you accept his emotional abuse and him shutting you out of his finances and the impact on you.
He is trying to manipulate you into declaring your unconditional love and getting ended up feeling you have stay.
I own a property abroad and we just spent a holiday there together and he knows my parents, my parents house and whom I inherited from (My granddad was a famous German architect) it is easy to google what I inherited and how much the assets are worth.
Your wealth is real. His sounds like it is all smoke and mirrors.
Really sounds like a horrible time, and it must be a really hard time for you with your mum being ill. But to be honest, however much he has supported you, he sounds rather shallow and materialistic (the flash watches, the PR parties, etc).
This is a really impertinent and may seem rather a cruel question, but do you think he would still want to marry you if you had nothing, no family wealth? I think you need to ask yourself.
You don't want your property being used as security against his business deals in the future. He could lose you everything.
And I know it sounds cruel, but if he's a young man and he's accrued 280k of debt, he's not just overly extravagant, he's not a very good businessman either.
Oh shitting hell Borntoshop - I again missed your last updates.
Don't feel stupid, it is not your actions that have caused any of this.
Is there any support network around you? You have so much to deal with, I'm not surprised you have depression. You deserve so much more than this, really you do. I wonder if actually without him you would have more time to devote to taking care of yourself - who responds to your last phonecall with what he said? He has bigger issues than the debt. You need to be kind to yourself. You sound lovely. I wish I could give you a real life hug. I'm so sorry you are dealing with so much, I'm sorry about your mother.
You trusted him because you're nice, BornToShop. And because most people are trustworthy. You are not a horrible person. Health problems happen to lots of people. Cancer (sadly) happens to lots of people. And yes, there are a few crappy men about, and they tend to target people they think they can manipulate. You are getting the shitty end of the stick at the moment, to be sure.
There is one huge bright spot however.
You found out now. Imagine how awful it would have been to have found out in two years time, when you were already married to him.
I think in future you'll look back on this moment as the luckiest escape of your life.
But one thing at a time. I'm glad you're having a weekend away from him.
he *doesn't@ think you are with him.
Borntoshop so sorry that you're going through this on top of your pre-existing stresses.
I know they are snippets, but leaving the debt issue aside nothing you've posted makes it sound like marriage is the next step for your relationship. You don't live together, you don't want kids,
he sounds like an arsehole. It's for these reasons I am very suspicious about the timing of the proposal. He may not know your exact worth but he'll have a pretty good idea and from an outside perspective it looks like he sees you as a solution to his money problems. The problems that are so damn important they trump yours.
(And this is just by the by, even if he does earn £150k, that is not enough to support the lifestyle you describe in my opinion. Sounds crazy, but it really isn't. 8k watches and Mayfair rents are the province of the super-rich.)
I am 'That BIWI' - and I can absolutely understand
You need someone who will love and cherish you. Sadly, this man is not the one.
blooming heck born to.
I thought my bloke's money management was bad- yours knocks spots off his.
I found out about my other half (now separated) debts after our wedding. It has been awful- and even though my ex has paid his off he hasn't learnt anything, so that's why he's an ex. Your bloke definitely has not learnt anything either but the sounds of it. Your situation sounds FAR worse than mine ever was and you have the power to stop it now. From what you've said it really does not sound like marrying sounds like a good option at the moment.
Do you have any RL friends that know you and your fiancé? Can you discuss this with any of them?
The more details you give the worse he sounds. He sounds like a complete idiot and I would be very suspicious of his behaviour.
I am sorry about your Mum, I hope she gets better.
How long have you known him?
Since I have known him he has lived in at least 12 different places, if not more. I don't think he wants to pay the debt off anytime soon. He bought a new camera for about 1,5k on Monday, he bought a new watch worth 8k a couple of weeks ago.
Sorry love, but not a good marriage prospect at all. Why does he keep moving? And why is he buying 1.5k cameras and 8k watches when he's debted up to the eyeballs..?
He sounds emotionally cruel too re. the situation with your mother (I'm so sorry for you about that by the way).
I suspect that he told you about his debt (and even said he had a reason to kill himself) so that you offer to pay the debt off! he now knows you have inheritance, and chose a moment when you were emotional and talking about your Mum, trying to play on your emotions - if this is true , he is callous and manipulative, on top of what all the other postres already said.
Step one is to stop being vulnerable and opening up to him, it makes you too attached to him. talk to your friends instead, at least until you know what you want to do.
I honestly don't know. When we started dating I wasn't earning much money, I lived in the most horrid place (a shoe box in London with a live-in landlady who never put the heating on and it was so cold that one day a bottle of diet coke froze completely.) But it was my way of showing my parents that I can really be independent and live on my own. Maybe I should add that I don't get on very well with my mother's DH, even though they are married for over 18 years now.
I am not a flashy person, yes I own the odd more expensive thing and I like to go on holiday, however I work very hard as well and shop mostly at Primark and H&M. I would like to buy a nice flat after I finish my degree and get my first "city" job. That's why I continued working even though I inherited and also I have the best employers in the world and the cutest child to look after and will probably work for them until the little one goes to school FT.
I need to sleep over this. I need some space from him.
Ok here's how it sounds.
Being in debt is something he doesn't mind. He thinks he deserves expensive watches and all the perks that life can offer. He is unrealistic about his financial means. He is comfortable owing a large amount of money and seems to have no intention to pay it off.
If you marry, and he continues in this way, you'll be liable for the new debts that he creates.
Also, if he has 10k spare for a watch and camera, hardly essentials, what did he buy you?
I am sorry for the difficult time you're having. I think you've been offered a lucky escape. Up to you if you take it. If you do marry him, you'll do so with full knowledge of what to expect.
That's never going to happen and I hope he knows that. Even I can not access the money at the moment as its tied up in saving bonds. I would never be so stupid and pay 280k off debt for somebody. My family worked very hard for what we have and even though I had the "luck" to inherit I am still working hard
even though I wouldn't have too.
Poor you, BornTo. It must feel so awful everyone saying this about your fiance. No-one's said a word in his favour, have they? It's horrible when you come on MN and you think there might be some reassurance in the pipeline and you get exactly the opposite.
The fact that this thread has got so long so quickly is because people are queuing up to tell you not to marry him. The red flags are flapping in the wind.
Give yourself a break from it. It's good that you aren't with him this weekend. Try and spend some time with someone undemanding, whom you trust, and give yourself some time to work out what to do next.
And then get rid, of course.
We are together for three years, I know him for nearly five years. Yes, we are many RL friends who know us both, my best friend was shocked when I told her today. I haven't told my mother yet as my stepfather/her husband told me not to. He said I shall not marry him unless I can protect my assets.
Cross posted with you OP.
I don't think your fiance is necessarily just a cynical gold digger intent on getting his hands on your assets. All I am saying is that if you are from a wealthy background, you represent the world he aspires to. This is true regardless of whether you were living in a dump doing a humble job. And it probably made it easier for him to fall in love with you.
You are right to give yourself some space.
OP I know you will not bail him out, but I'm saying he's HOPING for that, especially the way he used 'killing himself' comment to try and make you feel sorry/scared. I'm talking about what kind of person he is.
Of course it is horrible. It is horrible that I always thought to have found the perfect guy and then in the last 24h my life has changed so much. But I am very realistic and I am rather being told the truth, even though it's not what I want to hear. I love him, but I love myself more.
I don't know what to do. This was/is my first real relationship. I thought I would stay with him forever and then this all happens...
OP i am so sorry. You do space from him.
He picked a time you were vulnerable to tell you and mention killing himself (but then adding that he wouldn't WTF?). Your reaction was meant to be to offer to clear it so he wouldn't speak of killing himself and you didn't have to worry about losing someone else.
Its says alot that your mother could die and he thinks being in debt is worse. I don't care how much debt there is, your mother dying is infinitely worse.
While you were upset he off loaded to manipulate you into paying his debt off, or he genuinely does not care and could not give you a little support. Did the conversation then turn to be all about him and his debt, not about you and the pain you are in?
What contact have you had since?
tiredof he's also from a wealthy family
I wish he would aspire to life in a world like me as you put it. We don't flash in my family. My parents own a KIA, that's about 10 years old now, if not older. Nobody in my family owns an expensive watch. I could go on but I hope you know what I mean. Everybody in my family works hard.
sookie, that's what I just said, re hoping for her to emotionally offer him to help him, you probably missed my post. He might be weak rather than evil, but it's not much difference in the end.
How old are you? ( roughly ). You sound very young in your posts.
Have you ever had any indications that he might have had financial problems before? I can not imagine being in a relationship with someone for three years and them being able to keep such a momentous secret.
I don't text him at the moment.I want to know all about his debt,but he wont tell me so I dont see a point of speaking to him.
I am 22. He is 23.
I think that's good. Like you say, you need to sleep on it.
tiredof he's also from a wealthy family
Yeah I know I saw that... but without wishing to sound like a snob, the flash watches, gadgets etc come across as very 'new money' - a bit insecure. OP is 'old money', and her last post, about her family not being flashy fits in with that. They are prudent and established by the sound of it. He is showier and the solidity of her wealth, inherited wealth is perhaps attractive to someone who wants to impress the world.
Does this make sense, or am I over-analysing it all and coming out with a load of crap!!?? Apologies if I am!
No we wrote it at the same time, although unsure why we can't have the same opinion.
I think hr is abusive, add this to the 'its none of your business' and 'i am in £280k debt, but keep your nose out' shouts abuser.
sookie, I mean that my view may have seem extreme to OP, but you see it the same way, so it could well be indeed the case .
His family is "old money" too. He has lots of very rich
Russians friends he went to school with and as his parents didn't want to buy him what he wanted (A Bentley etc.) he is probably buying it now all on credit to boost his self esteem. I don't know. That's my guess. He doesn't speak to his parents. When we "announced" our engagement on Facebook his father contacted me and asked me if I could make him call his father.
tired yes, true. But unfortunately he doesn't want to take her example, and his habits aer unlikely to change.
That amount of debt is a dumpable offense IMO.
Plus the fact that he won't explain it and says it's none of your business. If he plans to marry you, it is your business.
And he's not worried about it and continues to spend as if the world was to end tomorrow.
He may well be a great person, otherwise, but do not marry him.
It could of course be that he's cynically waiting for his parents to die when he'll be able to wipe out all his debt at a stroke. But it's pretty twisted, isn't it. Not the solution of a nice or responsible person.
Gosh that's a bit sad... I almost feel sorry for him.
It's interesting what you said about the Russians. When I was writing my last post and I wrote that he sounded a bit 'new money' I nearly wrote that he was showing off like a Russian oligarch, then I realised how bad it sounded!
his habits aer unlikely to change
I couldn't agree more.
OP, it's strange, as he doesn't display any 'old money' qualities himself, I thought his parents were first rich generation, and possibly from a flashier culture (Italian, Arabic?). I'd think most old money English wouldn't hang around with
vulgar russians, and wouldn't want a Bentley as their first car at 23 (it's just not 'cool', it a 'daddy's car').
ah right, so he's fallen out with his parents! he sounds like he has a lot of issue (parents sound ok, though of course I don't know what's really behind them falling out, whether it was just the money).
No, he is English. I don't and I can't go into too much details about his parents but they live in a beautiful country estate. They are asset strong but not so cash strong. So I will write from my ipad now.
He is 23 and managed to run up 280,000 pounds of debt. . How on earth did he manage to get his hands on that amount of cash?
That is almost impressive
I would cancel the engagement and stop dating him. He is a fraud. He is pretending to be something he isn't.
'issues', sorry for other errors too.
All in all he sounds incredibly weak and quite shallow as he's mostly influenced by his flashy friends, who knows why with his background! possibly a cold attitude from parents emotionally, or possibly he's just a twat (sorry!) <mind boggles>
Fuck no! Don't marry him. Anyone who gets into this sort of debt at 23 is not living in the real world. If you marry him your assets will become joint ones and he'll then run up debts using your property as collateral. Seriously, you'll probably lose everything you've got that your family have worked for. Run a mile girl! Particularly as he is arrogantly refusing to explain himself to you.
I can see why you are confused though, OP, as he seemed to be genuinely into you for a couple of years when you lived very modestly (though he probably did know about your family) and he had no idea that you may inherit soon.
In the nicest possible way.. it sounds like there are big differences in your values, and not much basis for a marriage.
I ask again, what extravagant gifts has he bought you recently? Do you like your 8k watch? Yes exactly.
Sorry I know you're having a difficult time just now but your health and your mum's health, these things happened outside of your control. He got himself into debt. You just don't compare those situations.
Sorry, haven't read full thread (8 pages, bloody hell!) You're both pretty young and I don't think he's ready for marriage, he's being a bit of of a public school tosser atm and it takes more than five minutes to grow out of that mindset (I know some of these, and my baby sister married one to her cost...)
To answer your original question way back at beginning, there are ways of protecting your assets from him and his creditors if you marry. Find a good lawyer. Who will cost a lot of money btw.
But personally I'd step back and have a long hard think before saying 'yes'.
He clearly doesn't share your view of the world. You are working hard to make your own way in the world even though you have assets and an income stream available to you. He is spending money he hasn't got on "bling" to impress people and is massively in debt.
You don't really sound that compatible and I think there would always be a tension in your relationship between your attitude to money and his.
If he has been running companies and amassed 280k of debt I wonder if there are other problems such as him forgetting to pay the tax man etc which are going to make things even worse.
I would put
a lot some distance between you and him as soon as you can.
The watch is his not mine.
He cant tell you it's none of your business when he's the one who made it your business in the first place.
You will never be able to rely on this man. Even when you're going through such a hard time with your mum, he still finds a way to make everything all about him.
What you have here is actually the chance of a lifetime. You've been given the heads up on the sort of person he really is before you became tied to him. You're free to walk away from this at any time. And you can never look back. I really recommend that you do.
In general, I would be very wary of a man who has a very poor relationship with his family. The debt is bad but the lying and the bad treatment means you should walk away.
You are 22? I thought my life was nearly over at 26 and married quite the wrong man because of it. You sound very mature as a person but you really do have a lot of time on your side. Just because this doesn't work out doesn't mean you will be alone for any length of time.
Orchidee. The watch is his not mine
BornTo I think orchidee was being sarcastic - ie he's spending his money on himself rather than you!
Trust me, you do not need this sort of crap in your life at any age, but especially not at 22 when you have your whole life ahead of you.
Don't waste any more time on this wanker and his car crash life.
Another thing... planning marriage at such a young age, you said you don't want kids any time soon... so why? Better to wait, get to know each other better, not make a mistake.
BornToShop, yes I know the watch was bought for himself, that's my point, what's he buying you! Plus as I said earlier you seem to have different values. He's buying expensive watches that he can't afford and avoiding repaying debt. You are living within your means and working hard for the future. Yes he'd say he's trying to create a future but from what you've said here that's not true. He's living in the present and hoping he can avoid the consequences of his reality.
He hasn't come clean and shown you that he's serious about how to deal with the debt has he? He told you in as n emotional moment, now wishes he hadn't and refuses to discuss it.
He has that much debt at 23 ????? Holy feck.
I agree that, even more than the astonishing debt, it's his reactions that would make me dump and run: telling you it's none of your business, (of COURSE it is if you are planning a life together!!), trumping your worries over your mum, still spending indiscriminately, the immaturity to judge himself on what he has/has not materialistically cf school friends.
Please think very carefully before going any further with this relationship.
run like fuck for gods sake
OP did say he bought her an expensive engagement ring, but all of this is on credit, isn't it? If he stands to inherit the estate, and parents are cash-poor, he may well be looking for a wealthy wife, old story... He must like you as you've been together for three years, but would he be marrying you so early in life if you didn't inherit? tough questions, but he just sounds screwed up with his values, with impressing flashy friends being a priority. What kind of basis is this to choose friends anyway! Agree that you have opposite views on life (despite your user-name on here !).
Born to, I'm so sorry. It sounds like a dreadful situation.
I know a lot of people
in the same circle as like your fiance.
Trust me on this, the first thing that happens when someone like him starts going out with someone new is that the new partner is researched by family and friends. Thoroughly. He and his family will know exactly who your family are and how much you are worth.
Run away from him. Even if his financial situation is temporary, his moral ambiguity is permanent.
Fast! And don't look back!
You will find someone worthy of you who is not a total fuckwit!
allchangeplease I saw it written somewhere and loved it. I like to shop BUT as I said. I wear Primarni a lot :D
I'm not one to give a but i really thing you are winding us up OP. £280k. Really?
OP, yes, I loved the username, amusing! but you do like to work, so it's ironic
ICutMyFoot I doubt it that they reasearch every new date/gf, but they would research if engagement is forthcoming! as he doesn't speak to his parents they might not even know OP's surname, but in any case his old school parents would be pleased with the OP, they are not happy with their flashy son though!
GoingBlankAgain: seriously? Why would a person joke about this? You don't know what I've been through since Thursday night.
What you've been through since Thursday night is nothing compared to what you'll go through if you marry this
spoiled rotten would-be rich boy spendthrift twat.
Even if you had a cast iron watertight pre-nuptial agreement in place to safeguard your pre-marriage assets - which you'd be insane not to put in place before you book the venue - you'll spend your days wondering what new debts he's racking up while he's out of your sight, and your nights wondering whether you'll wake up to a morning chorus of baliffs at your door.
FGS don't lend this twat a penny or make any offer to clear all or part of his debts - that's what his family is for.
I hope his family tell him to suck it up as this wastrel needs a
long stint sleeping on the streets and in homeless hostels to teach him the value of money.
I am sorry to hear about your mother, I think your mother's DH is right not to want her worried about all this.
You have had lots of good advice here. He doesn't sound like he will make you happy long term. He is very different from you and his values are not like your family's values. He is likely to always have money worries and will probably go through your fortune in a few years. He won't discuss money issues with you yet wants you to marry him? Unbelievable.
You are very young and should concentrate on your studies, your job, your family and your friends at the moment. Listen to the advice from your family and friends- they know you and will have your best interests at heart.
No I wouldn't marry him. That's a colossal debt, he hasn't been honest with you, he clearly has money issues and could possibly be a gambler to have run up that much debt in his relatively short life!
You say you're not madly in love with him either - so let it go. I could NOT live with someone who had that attitude to money, ever - even if all my assets were fully protected - what happens in the future, when you have children and can't work for a while? You depend on a spendthrift who has no money-sense - and he runs you into more debt - so you end up having to liquidate assets just to keep your family afloat.
Look at the future picture and then leave this profligate - he is very dangerous, finance-wise (to say nothing of the whole spoilt brat "I want this and I don't care if I can't afford it, I'm buying it anyway" attitude).
Oh my love, this is all wrong! Aside from the debt, you sound really mismatched to me. Money is the cause of most arguments in marriages even when there isn't debt. what chance do you two have, you will be constantly infuriated by his irresponsible and childish behaviour.
I think he has just given you a guilt free ticket to get out of this marriage.
From a different angle, I am left with massive debts after the resession floored my business.........I wouldn't marry me either!
BorntoShop -- please, please do not stay with this man and do not under any circumstances ever think of marrying him.
The debt is only the tip of the iceberg of what is fundamentally wrong about him.
Your account of him raises so many red flags -- you will be desperately unhappy if you stay with him.
Better unhappy for a while now while you get over him than unhappy for many years down the road before you finally get rid of him.
And when I say 'unhappy' I mean feeling you are having the life sucked out of you, feeling you are being destroyed.
Math, as usual you put it in a far better way than I did!
Op, what Math says.
God what an awful situation OP. I really hate to say it, but I think he has betrayed you wholeheartedly and you should run like the wind.
Op, you sound great. Really grounded, mature, sensible, ethical and with a good work ethic. You have a lot to offer a decent man, and you are also fortunate that you can pick a struggling artist or hard working nurse etc without having to worry financially. Great! You are an absolute catch!
He, however, is not. He is sneaky and dishonest, refuses to be open with you and lives a flash lifestyle out of other people's pockets. I find it impossible to respect a man who is happy to live on money he doesn't have a right to, it's despicable. You really can do a lot lot better, and you are so young that you have plenty of time
OP. He needs to grow up, you are not his parent. It sounds like you all mix in the same circles and big money is floating around but he doesn't have it. I've seen loads of children of rich or connected parents think that their lifestyle is the one they are entitled to without realising how much cash/ hard work it takes to maintain it.
I do feel sorry for your fiance as he is obviously struggling with the real world, however his relationship with his parents would be another red flag to me, as well as his spending.
Please tell him that you can't marry a man that isn't honest with you and who also refuses to talk to you about his problem.
You are only 22, please do not settle for this now.
What chaz and erik said
You are 22 , this is your first long term relationship , learn from it ( and you sound very intelligent ) and move on
If you decide to end your engagement I predict he will react very badly and you will see more of his true colours
I am going to be blunt about this.
He is marrying you for your money and nothing more.
re your comment from earlier:-
"Since I have known him he has lived in at least 12 different places, if not more."
Now why do you think that is exactly?. Did that fact itself not raise any alarm bells?. He's running to escape the debtors who keep chasing him. He probably receives calls from companies chasing him and his debt at all hours. 280K is an awful lot of debt to build up as well.
The very way he treats you and his coldness towards his parents ought to be setting off the alarm bells as well.
(Men like this bloke and my BIL never change. BIL networks like mad and has a company registered at Companies House; his company is a nameplate on a dustbin lid. He has and continues to lie to everyone around him including himself. He is also into flash possessions but cannot maintain or have the lifestyle that he thinks he is entitled to).
He does not love you, he loves your money instead. He is looking to you to bail him out and enable him to maintain the lifestyle he desires and thinks that he deserves. He does not give a toss about you, just your money. I think you are starting to see the real him and what he is really like; i.e a spendthrift with no morals whatsoever. He thinks nothing of you.
You are 22 and this is your first long term relationship. Learn lessons from this and carry them forward. You are intelligent and you can and should give this person the heave ho now.
If you marry him that will be the biggest mistake you have ever made. Dump him now from a great height.
OP i hope you are feeling a little better this morning.
TBH this is not about how much he is in debt. its about him being a selfish person, possible abuser and possibly trying to secure himself with YOUR money.
You are going through alot and instead of supporting you he told you this with the killing himself line. He turned the conversation about him. He WILL NOT support you (emotionally) which a dh should. He will always want to take priority.
He thinks money is more important than your mum having a potentially fatal disease. Do you think money is more important than your mum? thats a big difference in values.
When you have found out he refuses to be open and honest? thats not what a life partner does, it is you be your debt as well. Do you want a husband who is a liar and feels he can choose what information you are allowed to know?
Even taking the actual money out of the equation this is not the makings of a happy marriage.
Do you know why he doesn't speak to his parents?
I don't think you should marry him, even if we forget about the assets you have being at risk.
When it comes down to it, your values are very different. You believe in working hard and being independent. He thinks that he is entitled to have what he wants immediately without having to work for it.
In a marriage that sort of incompatibility just doesn't work.
It doesn't sound like he is able to be what you need. He is thinking about himself at a time when you need support. The problems he has are of his own making, and he can help himself out of them, if he changes his attitude.
You need to have a Big Talk. He will have to change a lot before you can think about committing to him, and you will have to see if he wants to, or is able to. He doesn't sound happy with the way things are. He might want to be different. You can't change him but you might be able to support him while he does.
At 22 I think I would be inclined to pull back and see how it goes. The world is wide open to you.
If you love him then you have a lot of time to invest in him, but I certainly wouldn't let him near your money, and definitely don't marry him.
I would not marry anyone who told me that something so important was none of my business. Simple as that. Someone who wanted to hide things from me or wasn't prepared to be frank and open with me is not someone I would commit to spending my life with.
I second what everyone else has said:
You are 22 - you have all the time in the world to
start again with someone else make sure this man is right for you rather than rush into marriage
He has not grown up yet - he sounds a very, very young 23 and one who has not the faintest grasp about what's important or the consequences of his ridiculously shallow lifestyle
As someone else said, money is the source of many a marital argument (and I'm talking about whether to spend £200 on a new oven or save for a holiday - not how the fuck to clear £280k debt!), this is a terrible way to start a marriage
But the biggest one for me is that he thinks you only want him for his money. What does that say about what he thinks about you...and women in general? At best he doesn't know you at all. At worst he has misogynistic views of women and thinks all women want is to be wined, dined and hook a rich husband. Which of course is offensive bollocks.
Certain things have happened to me recently and I struggle occasionally with depressions. My mother is battling with cancer at the moment and tried to commit suicide last month while I was abroad on holiday. I've had a long, stressful week as I work 60h a week and also study in the evenings. Last night I was really down and was crying to him on the phone for hours. He said that my problems weren't as bad as his...
So, not only is he irresponsible with money, still spending silly amounts on toys instead of dealing with his debt, is secretive about it (Of course it's your business too!) but he doesn't have empathy for you. Even if you could work out the money issues - which I don't think you can - you still have someone who considers their (financial) problems (which he's not dealing with very well) as more important than your physical and emotional ones. He's not very nice in my book and definitely not husband material. He really needs to grow up.
Just one other thought, and I realise he probably hasn't told you this yet and may not even if you ask him.
Money doesn't magically appear or disappear. Where did the 280k come from? Banks or other credit? Seems unlikely that at his age and with no obvious assets as collateral that he'd be loaned that sort of money. Or did it come from private individuals, like friends and family? Either way this is real debt that is causing real people or real businesses problems. Wherever the money came from, that person or business wants it back and meanwhile he is still living an extravagant lifestyle that he can't afford, quite unconcerned about how his actions affect the owner of that money. These don't sound like your own values, BornToShop. I think you're seeing his true colours, I'm sure he's charming, attractive, great fun etc. He may be fine as a temporary boyfriend for fun times but he's not marriage material. You won't have the emotional support or financial security that'll only become more important as you get older.
I hope you have a good weekend
Also, where did the money "disappear" to? I doubt he'll be able to demonstrate spending that amount in an appropriate way. Not a good businessman, even if he wants to think he is. Being deluded about your abilities and your market is dangerous in business.
Don't marry him. Not because of the debt (though I would be panicking if my fiance were so bad with money that he could run up that kind of debt) but because he lied to you, he doesn't think his finances are any of your business, he doesn't support you and his values are out of whack.
Your problems are worse than his - WTF? If he can't support you now, in what ought to be the first flush of love, he'll be a broken reed if you have PND or struggle with a baby who can't sleep. You deserve better.
OP do not stay with this man. At the moment you are feeling very vulnerable and hurt, but none of this is your fault. Not his debt or your mum's cancer - not any of it. You are working hard to build a future for yourself - sounds like all this guy has done is spend what he doesn't have and then expects you to feel sorry for him.
Differences in attitude to money are one of the main reasons couples argue and split up. In the end you will come to resent his childish inablilty to control himself and by then it will probably be at your expense. This guy has got a serious problem if he cannot make a life for himself that he can afford. £280k is a huge amount. Is it secured on anything? As others have asked where did he get the loan? Is he repaying it?
I also query just how separate you could keep finances as a married couple. Sure you can keep separate assets and bank accounts, but if you don't trust each other enough to share things like salary levels and information on properties, then can you trust enough to raise a family - NO.
I doubt he will ever change. Move on now before he gets his claws into your money.
Just precis'd this for dh to "would you marry someone who just told you they had 280K of debt and, when asked about it, said it was none of your business?"
His response: "not if they seriously thought it was none of my business, no."
There you go!
I think you know the answer, dont you?
This man has delusions of grandeur and if you marry him he will continue as he is, in fact I think he will anyway.
Also, I think you may well become liabe for his debts.
AND I think part of your attraction for him is that you are so organised and sensible and he thinks you can be the 'money organiser', whilst he continues to spend, just like magic. Even f he denies it, and wants to change, I bet the first time you are discussing which restaurant, there will be a row,
Also, 'I dont believe him'??? You are probably right not to, but why marry a liar and a spendthrift.
I'd like to know why you want to marry him.
You poor thing, a devastating time for you. My heart goes out to you. Do you have family you could go and stay with for a day or two just to get yourself grounded again? You probably want your mum - I would. Can you go there? You don't have to tell anyone there your situation, just be there quietly with her and remember what it is like to be with people who share your values.
Bornto if you marry, you are likely to lose all that you inherited, as it will be swallowed up by his debts. As it is, you don't even know if the £280k is the full amount. You have probably only been told an amount that he thinks you will find 'acceptable'.
If I were you, I would go on a site like Experian, and obtain a copy of his credit-rating. You may be in for a nasty surprise. Given the way credit card companies were throwing credit cards with 0% balance transfers at people until fairly recently, this may be how he has managed to run up such a huge debt. If some of it is with his Russian 'friends', I would scarper sharpish if I were you.
Later, I'd breathe a very very huge sigh of relief that I'd got away unscathed.
Run a mile. Plenty of fish in the sea.
How young you are to have all these troubles. Luckily your employers sound nice, hopefully he won't come round and try to see you. It's awful for anyone when thy realise their man has feet of clay. If he went to public school this must of cost thousands, then uni.. Did he go into business with rich friends? His poor parents, all that money invested in him and he gets in a mess and won't talk to them. Or they are fed up with bailing him out.
Btw, I went to loads of pr etc parties, all mates got invited. It's a very badly paid job cos of the glamour! So you have to be rich to take the job and survive. Like gallery assistants And public school people all knw each other.
Run. It's a lucky escape.
Run. Run like fuck. And then run some more. And keep running til you cannot see hide nor hair of him in your rearview mirror. And then run a bit more just to be sure.
And I would want to know more about why he's not speaking to his parents. Have you met them?
You know you can't marry him, don't you. The thread title was your way of expressing your shock. And now you need time to absorb the shock and to begin to imagine a way forward.
I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Finding out someone close to you is not who you believed them to be is very hard.
Lots of lovely and wise posters in here to guide you through.
Go gently, try to distance yourself from him and to be with friends who you are sure of. xx
Thanks for all your kind messages. I slept a lot better last
with the help of wine and I feel a bit better today than I did yesterday.
He does not speak to his parents because they didn't want to support him when he moved to London for his degree. At the beginning the father paid him a little bit each month but stopped then for some
to me unknown reason. He studied but stopped in the first year to focus on his businesses.
I have not met his parents yet. The only contact I've ever had was when we got engaged and his father contacted me, asking me if I could ask his son to phone him the other day. They also asked when they would get to meet me.
He started some of the businesses with his "rich friends".
I can not believe what a comletely fool I am. I am upset and feel very hurt. I will speak to him later but before I will have a look on Companies Houses.
At least you have found out now. Not meeting his patents is a massive red flag.ccan you talk to them?
Bornto - have you considered the gambling aspect? Perhaps his parents know something about it, it could be a reason why his Dad would have stopped his allowance.
Its not ofteen parents don't support their dcs choice to go to uni. I wouldn't believe this story.
I'm thinking about calling his father and letting him know about this. I really really should have known it
especially since one of his mates is in jail because of fraud worth several millions.
I told him that I will get all my stuff this weekend and he told me that I am overreacting.
He studied but stopped in the first year to focus on his businesses.
That says a lot. He wanted to 'get rich quick' instead of working at his studies and getting a proper job. And it failed.
Please, please don't get any more involved with this loser. He's unreliable and will drag you down in one way or another.
I can not believe what a comletely fool I am.
You're not a fool, he is. He managed for a while to convince you he is something he is not. But you've rumbled him and (hopefully) have given him the heave. He's the one who has lost out.
I don't earn much at the moment (I'm a nanny and still studying) but I own and co-own properties and money from an inheritance
I have not read whole thread OP, but on above alone I want to scream "Don't do it". Half your assets become his (communal property) on marriage (and divorce), and I would imagine you would be liable for his current debt.
I would be very wary all round. Sometimes when we are luved-up there are things we simply don't want to see, but please try to keep your vision as clear as possible to see who this man is and what he is doing. Sounds like you are already though, upsetting though it is
He can't have been that committed to his degree course if he dropped out after one year for the reasons you state, so maybe his parents were right to have doubts about financing it. And they'll have a lot more background knowledge to his
entitled attitude towards money that they can baybe enlighten you with. That should be a very interesting conversation.
Take a mate to get your stuff with you. Do not go alone- otherwise he will think you want to talk again. Just say you have realised you are too young to deal with all this and your father has asked you to step away , even if he hasnt. Re arrange if no one is free.
You are not a fool. You found out now. Over reacting! No, not a bit.
Overreact away. You need to be well away from all this. Run!
Fair play to him for confessing. It must have been hard. I was in a similar stuation before I married my dw. I was in £15k of debt from being a twat with £. I felt I had to tell my GF at the time as I knew she was very good with money and was a very honest person. I didnt want to marry her with this hanging over my head. It took me about 2 weeks to find the courage to tell her. She listened then went quiet for a day or two. iwas convinced it was the end of the relationship but she came back witha plan to pay yhe debt off so we could start a life together free form worry.
We have been debt free since and now I am the tight one questioning every purchase almost.
You can ringfence your cash that you bring into a relationship. its not difficult to prove that this was yours before meeting him so dont worry too much.. If you love him enough and he is willing to work hard towards paying it off and changing his lifestyle and spending habits then work with him and help. It can work.
Fair play to him for confessing. It must have been hard. Disagree with this completely. He only told because he wanted to demonstrate that him and his problems are more important than the OP's mother being so ill.
Born I think talking to his father would be a very wise move.
Agree with Alibaba - it was competitive probleming - "my problems are so much worse than yours" - not hard at all.
Bet he didn't expect this outcome though!
Balotelli, did you actually read the OP's posts?
It's none of her business, he spends what he doesn't have and doesn't feel the need to actually do work to earn money.
And she's overeacting.
And it's 280k, not 15.
And also, balotelli it's a little bit more than 15K, and this guy's overall attitude signals some red flags. Like telling her it's none of her business for a start.
And assets could be ring fenced, but I bet they would argue all the time about spending and how.
After a while the OP might have to sell their marital home, paid for by the money she had been earning since getting married.
I just wouldn't trust him.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Don't feel a fool, BorntoShop! Your instincts have saved you from this guy BEFORE you married him. That doesn't sound like a fool to me at all.
I am against telling his father, IF you feel this is the end of the relationship. I think I know why you want to - you want to do the right thing, and you probably hope the parents can give this man a wake-up call. Well, maybe they could, maybe not.
But my feeling is that it isn't really your problem any more. You don't know anything about his parents, or their relationship with him. You don't know what trouble you might be involving yourself in by telling them. Quite honestly, if this bloke is anything like as twisted up as he sounds, I wouldn't put it past him to get truly nasty with you for speaking to them.
I think you are being sensible to not marry him. I assume he knows about your inheritance and the properties you co-own. I wonder how attractive you would be to him if you had nothing or had debts. I think you know the answer.
Good luck and, although it may be hard to think about this at the moment, you've had a very lucky escape.
OP I'm really concerned about his comment that his business situation is "none of your business". £280K debt or no, I couldn't marry anyone who wasn't able and willing to be completely honest with me about his financial and business circumstances.
I'm not suggesting that you should be delving into the business accounts in detail, but if you are going to be a marriage team together, at least a vague idea of what is going on is, to my mind, essential.
I am a lawyer and I regularly advise company directors on giving personal guarantees. I also act for banks recovering those sums. If he'd given a personal guarantee and the Bank was actually calling on it, they would have done so by now. So it doesn't sound like a personal guarantee debt to me.
If he's set up a business with his friends and he's know for being a bit flash with his cash, do you think they have brought him on board to fund their
hopeless business idea?
When you marry, your assets will remain yours unless you want to merge them or if they passed under a will. In the event of a divorce you would probably hang on to them, but a pre-nup (although it is only persuasive, not binding) would help.
I'm also concerned about you saying that you want to build up a good credit rating. If your finances become linked (because you share an address or you have a joint account for the bills) your credit rating may suffer because of him. There is some good stuff on the Money Saving Expert website about this.
Please think very carefully before you agree to marry him.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Do you think he told you about this debt in the hope that you would react by offering to help bail him out?
He may not know the details of your bank account/s but I'm guessing he must be aware you own property?
I'd not only be concerned about the "none of your business" comment but also that he said it was business so "it'll just get written off soon anyway" (er, will it?!). Also his dramatics.
It seems he's flailing about between extremes of 'don't overreact, it's nothing' and 'my life is a disaster and nobody else's problems compare'. That and the fact he's still spending like a loon indicate he's both in denial and desperate for a miraculous out, which is probably marrying you and either a) having someone to share the financial burden, or b) having someone to make all his troubles just disappear.
Don't be that person. I wouldn't just not marry him, I'd extricate myself from the relationship entirely at least until he had acknowledged his debt and formulated a strategy to deal with it.
(BTW all this talk of Russian friends, multiple business and business partners and the fact you have no clue about what exactly it is he does makes it sound like it could be something more shady than just debt...)
RED FLAGS RED FLAGS RED FLAGS
Distant from his parents
You havent met his parents
"I know about his lavish spending, an expensive watch here, renting a flat in Mayfair, buying only bespoke suits an so on ... He is trying to live the same lifestyle he had ... he always felt insecure."
Born, this person will make you very unhappy. Please get away from him, seriously.
Personally I would only speak to the father if I was unsure if I wanted to finish the relationship. Let me make clear, I think you should run for the hills. But if you are unsure and feel he still is not being truthful, then contact the father and explain you are unsure whether to get married and worry about you have been told. See what they say.
He might kick off, but he isn't going to tell you the truth.
I really really think you should leave him. I don't think I have ever said that.
OP I am genuinely concerned for you. I think he is showing abusive behaviour and you are vulnerable because of everything that is happening. Please think long and hard about this.
When you pick your stuff up ask him not to be there and take someone with you, in case he is there.
I would tell him you are not over reacting. Hr is massively under reacting.
Although he said, when confessing, it was something people kill themselves over but you are over reacting by reconsidering the relationship. He sounds so manipulative.
Has he offered anymore info? Perhaps admitted that it is your business, at least the basics and truth about those basics.
A director has limited liability for a companies debt so it won't be from that. Find out who he owes 280k to and what it was racked up for. It's a lot to be personal debt and unless he has a massive income to service it, I think this sort of debt would have caught up with before it got to this level.
He should have declared bankruptcy along time ago.
However, I'm not an expert in these matters.
Tressy - that's true. Liability is limited to the amount of money that was guaranteed but sometimes banks and others ask for extra collateral to guarantee a loan for example a lean on a house, so it could be from that if he had had to personally guarantee a loan (I would still run like fuck though)
You are absolutely not a fool.
He has chosen to be far less than honest with you about money (and possibly a lot more -- who are his friends, what happened with him and his family, etc) and has revealed himself to be nothing short of heartless when you needed support from him: all of that speaks volumes about him, not about you.
On top of everything else, when you are naturally devastated at all this, he has trotted out the line of the truly self absorbed, the old chestnut -- 'you are overreacting'.
I think you are dealing with a very troubled individual here -- the delusions of grandeur and the spending to the point of (and in the face of) massive debt, the people from his past that he is no longer in contact with (his parents and possibly more that you haven't heard about), the way he has split his life into several sections -- the 'relationship' with you, the 'friends' he has been involved with in business -- and the fact that he thinks there are parts of it that are none of your business. This is all very, very bad.
It is no reflection on you as a strong and whole woman that you would be completely unable to change this man. Please accept that you would never put a dent in his way of looking at life and his way of looking at other people and do not stick around to try, or feel that he will be your project, your challenge. Focus on your own life, on your own family, on your own future, your own financial security -- without him.
Nobody means enough to this man to change. Everyone else will always be wrong and he will always be right. Nobody else's life will ever be important enough to make him stop and think about what he is doing. You have seen some of that already in his comments about your problems vs. his far more important problems. You have seen some of that in the way he continues to spend money he does not have (this is called stealing) without apparently an iota of remorse or worry.
balotelliSat 29-Sep-12 14:43:48
Fair play to him for confessing. It must have been hard. I was in a similar stuation before I married my dw. I was in £15k of debt from being a twat with £. I felt I had to tell my GF at the time as I knew she was very good with money and was a very honest person. I didnt want to marry her with this hanging over my head. It took me about 2 weeks to find the courage to tell her. She listened then went quiet for a day or two. iwas convinced it was the end of the relationship but she came back witha plan to pay yhe debt off so we could start a life together free form worry.
We have been debt free since and now I am the tight one questioning every purchase almost
If i was your wife and you were questioning every purchase after shes helped you to get out of debt i would be pretty pissed off to be honest.
This sounds a bit controlling.
I agree balotelli post wasn't the ray of light the op needed.
As well as being a universe away from the ops situation.
It was a really random post by balotelli
I was thinking the same Darkesteyes to be honest. It was good enough when Balotelli ran up debts, and his wife paid them off.
Actually is a good post to show OP what her life could be.
Him confessing debt, her planning and helping him out of it, him then controlling the finances. Not really and equal partnership.
He sounds more and more like bad news.
Please run a mile and dont look back!
Its strange because I now think the debt is almost a none issue. IMO there is so much more that would have me running away.
Honestly OP, I have been In a dv and ea relationship. Its not good. What happened to me was fairly extreme (ended up in hospital, lasting damage to my brain, almost dead, mum found me and i was unconscious and such a mess she thought I was dead) but it happens. The ea, in some ways, has been harder to get over. I didn't marry him or even live with him.
The debt itself is not the main worry here.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Actually, that's just reminded me, was goign to ask earlier and got side-tracked - why has he moved around such a lot? Another BIG red flag.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I married a man with debt (a fraction of the figure you mention.) He was also flash and had a cavalier attitude to borrowing. I don't think we had a single year together without some money crisis.
280K in debt indicates a whole lifestyle based on the idea that you can do whatever you want with other people's money.
Calling your reaction to the bombshell 'overreacting' indicates that he feels if it doesn't matter to him it shouldn't matter to you, and what matters to you doesn't matter to him.
This is not a man who respects other people's rights to their money, or their feelings. He has no boundaries.
no - do not marry him. Financial reasons are the number 1 cause of divorce - and that's probably just over £600 here and there. Not quite £280 THOUSAND? Run. for. the. hills.
Please just be aware that as someone else has said, people in debt often knock quite a bit off when owing up. When I owned up I knocked about 1/4 off first just to see what reaction I got.
Whatever your dp tells you he owes add lots more to it
OP most people would freak out over finding out about a £28K debt, never mind a £280K debt - no matter what his business or family background is, that is an utterly terrifying amount of money.
If he then goes on to spend almost £10k you can know, without a shadow of a doubt, that he has a spending addiction, and addictions don't suddenly go away.
i think you should get hold of the accounts of his businesses from companies house.
but i think he is lying to you mainly because he's refusing to discuss it now. he doesn't want to get caught up in more lies.
as mark twain says: 'always tell the truth. that way you don't have to remember what you've said.'
basically you can't trust him. if you had kids you'd be worrying whether you'd be able to afford nappies or whether he's just blown another 2K on an expensive suit.
Borntoshop, you sound like a really nice woman with everything going for you. Despite having serious inherited wealth which you could doubtless swam about on and live off, you are working very hard to train for an honourable career. You've had some really shitty things happen to you lately, and I think you shouldn't beat yourself up if you feel your judgement wasn't the best with this man. If everyone here posted the stupid things they've done when they've been having a shitty time (me certainly!), then there would be a lot worse than trusting a rather sharky guy up here.
Forget the money for a moment, respect and trust is such an important part of a long term relationship, and with your clear common sense and work ethic, are you really going to trust a guy who spends 8k on a watch when he owes all that money? Debt isn't abstract, there may be small companies, individuals, who he owes that money too who are being crippled by it. And the idea he doesn't think that is your business is odious.
At the very least, I'd put some distance between you and have a good think about this.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
<applause> everything mathanxiety and crazyhead said.
Hope you're having a calm day today BornToShop and are taking care of yourself.
I'm glad you managed to get some sleep and are feeling better today.
I second taking a friend with you to get your things.
I hope as you get over the shock you realise you have not been and are not a fool, it was in his utmost interss to hide this from you and to get that much debt you learn how to lie convincingly. You acted on the information you had, that's all any of us can do. Leaving him proves you aren't a fool and have a remarkable strength for someone dealing with such a heavy heart.
As an aside the last person I knew (who sounds identical to your man) was compelled to leave the country and was last heard of in the US before he dropped off the radar entirely. For unhappy people that have lost a lot of money due to this kind of business, the UK becomes a very small place indeed. He's moved 12 times - you don't run if someone isn't following.
You've made a solid and head lead decision, your heart will catch up once it stops being so raw. Future you will thank you for it.
OP, you are not a fool.
you are young but you are certainly not stupid.
You won't regret what you have learned from this.
How he came to amass such a colossal amount of debt should be of no interest to you as the only matter of paramount importance is that you end your engagement and have no further dealings with him.
Bear in mind that if he has racked up this enormous sum through fraud/scams or other illegal act, or it has accured through gambling at questionable establishments, it may not just be your financial security that is at risk if you continue to associate with him as it could be that his gross recklessness will follow you to your employers door.
listen to izzyizin, he/she makes good points, very good.
Also this thread makes me think ... how people are with money, their relationship with money, how they "talk" about money e.g. showing-off, any lack of self-control, their sense of responsibility (or not), their wish to over-control, their wish to exploit others, sense of entitlement, all will be revealed without effort!!!
I will give your boyfriend the benefit of the doubt, let us assume that he indeed is a high flying business man, he thought he could produce 1million pounds with the investment of 250k, it didn't go well, he took a chance and now he is on debt.
Even with that in mind, To me he really sounds as someone who is not mature enough to get married. He still thinks that all these flashy jewels, cars, clothes are needed to be a worthwhile person, that is the sign of a man with DEEP insecurities.
Don't get married. Please. He needs another ten years to grow up.
He needs another ten years to grow up.
By which time he will be in even greater debt and/or bankrupt and/or prison.
The debt itself is not fatal, and it is perfectly possible for an individual to get into debt even through a limited company -- many creditors would require a personal guarantee from an owner if the company doesn't have adequate assets. If this were truly a business deal gone wrong and he explained the business model, what the money was used for, why the business failed, there could conceivably be something salvageable here. But he isn't doing that -- he's trying to get you to stop asking questions. That is a huge warning.
A prenuptial agreement (even if it were allowed) will not help this fundamental problem of honesty and trust.
I'm a financial idiot, and I'm telling you to GTFO, my love.
If you marry him then even if you're not responsible for his currant debts, you would find yourself expected to fund his extravagant lifestyle because that's what he thinks he's entitled to. Even with separate finances he would still demand money off you. Tell you it's none of your business if you ask what it's for. And sulk if you say no.
Sorry, I didn't reply earlier but I wasn't able to. We separated last night so I am feeling very down today and I am sad, upset and angry. I will go into more details later, but right now I want to cry under my duvet.
Ah Born - have a big (((hug))) - I'm sure you do feel very blue about it just now but really, this is the best in the long run. Have a good cry, get it out of your system and then write a list of all his bad points. Have you a friend you can call to come over and be with you? x
Breaking up is hard to do yes but in your case sod crying under the duvet and relish your new found freedom instead!!!. Its not your fault that he has acted like a complete twunt when it comes to personal finance and he would have gone through your own money like a dose of salts if you had married him. You have had a lucky escape.
I'm sure you are feeling down now but hopefully in a little while you will see that he wasn't the right person for you in the long run. I would have have some fun, go out with your friends and enjoy being young and free in London.
I'm very sorry that you have had to do this. It was necessary but of course you will be feeling very miserable.
But things can only get better. Concentrate on your career for now, and one day you will find that man who really deserves you.
You are mostly grieving for the man you thought he was and the future you had planned.
This man is bad news and you should really be happy to get rid of him!
You should go out and celebrate that you got the true measure of him before you got trapped.
That must have been difficult for you and I am not surprised that you are sad. I am sure it is for the best based on what you have told us.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
All credit to you, honey - you're a woman who doesn't just listen to sound advice; you act on it.
With that attitude you'll go far, and when you meet Mr Truly Right For You you'll be so glad you ditched
Walter Mitty this immature and irresponsible twat.
Aw, you poor thing. Sorry you feel so crappy but agree with everyone about this being a lucky escape. I'd dine out on his story "...and £280k in debt!" and watch your chums go .
I think he's very very immature and I reckon he distanced himself from his patents when they found him out, and now he's done the same to you. Must be quite stressful and weird to be living the (fake) high life but not being able to have any real relationships as he's going to get found out at any moment. His poor parents.
You poor thing, your head must be spinning.
Agreed, definitely the best thing to have done, putting the debt aside there were lots of other worrying things regarding his sense of entitlement etc.
You sound like a marvellous catch, OP, I bet when you've had time to gather your thoughts and recover you'll find another bloke who's much more sorted.
Oh, love, it's so hard.
Wallow under your duvet today, for after this you have a fab life ahead of you, especially with the values you've been brought up with and your strength of character and integrity. Any man would be privileged to have you. I know it's no comfort to you now, but hang on to those character traits, hold your head up and plunge into life.
If you love him you could not marry (to avoid financial implications) but still live happily together but with totally separate finances. It's perfectly possible and ensure you never pay for anything of his and vice versa. My debt is near £1m because of divorce. I am very good with money and earn quite a lot. If £1m isn't a problem his comparatively tiny debt is nothing.
Cold comfort, but this is the better way.
Be nice to yourself. Don't run yourself ragged working. Take a little time to appreciate your own strengths and try to cast off doubt. You are doing the right thing and being faithful to yourself. Sometimes it is hard to see how you are putting yourself first when your result in the short term is heartbreak. If you have a photo of yourself as a girl of about 12 or so, look at it and remember you are protecting that girl's future right now.
Xenia that is bollocks. This is not about the amount of the debt. It is about how this man has treated her as a human being he supposedly loves and whose best interests he supposedly has at heart.
I only read the first post or so - that he had a debt, not what else he might have done. What else has he done?
Come to this thread late and you've already dealt with this. Just to add, it's ok to be sad at the end of the relationship you thought you had.
He's not the man you thought he was, it's ok to grieve for that man. Eventually you'll meet someone who does meet the expectations you had of this man.
Just a note to say I hope you are feeling better. Just seen this thread and it reminded me of my narrow escape. If they don't tell you these things before asking you to marry them, then WORRY! I had a similar, but not such a huge debt, situation and my father was possibly more worried than me! It took a while for the fog to lift and for me to realise he was sponging from me and get out very fast. People like this just drag others down. Always thinking their next big break is around the corner if only they had enough money... It really isn't. My ex used to boast terribly and his friends used to snigger behind his back as everyone knew it was champagne tastes and lemonade money. It was very embarrassing but he couldn't see it. You don't want to have the rest of your life with someone like this, believe me. You will look back and think 'Phew!' Keep looking forward
I'm very, very sorry that this has happened to you. FWIW (and it's probably very cold comfort at this stage) I'm sure you've done the right thing. Look after yourself - do you have real life friends nearby who can take you out for wine and reassure you?
xenia just debts but shady. Moved 12 times in 3 years and his parents ( I paraphrase): are loaded landed gentry types but refused to support him at uni so they haven't spoken since. OP also has massive inheritance.
When OP called him to talk about feeling terrible about her mother that was when he dropped the bombshell on her that her troubles were nothing compared to his - he mentioned the 280K debt in order to one up her. When she tried to talk to him about the debt and ask why she had been kept in the dark about it to then she got told she was overreacting and also that this was really none of her business.
So there is potential shadiness associated with such a massive debt (hints of 'Russian friends'), compartmentalising his life into business, family, and the OP -- the various parties have never met, dismissing her feelings, one upping her when she needed support.
Lots of red flags.
Xenia we all know you are blasé about money, but your debt is at least for a reason. This guy is 23 and has run this up via failed business deals with Russian chums. Not the same at, and he doesn't seem to feel the need to pay it back.
Okay, well I had only read the first post. It sounds like he is pretty useless, 23 loads of debts, bit different from say 30s, mortgage debt or something.
How are you this morning, borntoshop?
borntoshop - you know in your hear thisis not the guy for you ! He is of a different mindset totally. I know these days are hard but you willl get through this. You will be stronger and wiser.
OP, how are you coping? I hope he hasn't been nasty during the split! hopefully you are getting rl support, but do come back if you feel like talking.
Thanks for all your support and kind messages. I have been very busy, back to work on Monday, working 12h days and studying. I am still upset, was so frustrated and ate all day today. I had a blood test (looks like I have PCOS) and I always feel terrible after I have my blood taken. He hasn't spoken to me since we've split. I feel like he didn't care about me at all. This time last week I was a happy girl and this week?
borntoshop you will be happy again - you will find someone so so so much better and more deserving of you......
Yes, Nelly is right. You will feel happy again - and your life will be so much better without this loser around you. Be strong - you did the best thing for yourself in the long run! I know it's trite but really - short term pain = long term gain here.
Jeez, Xenia, you are
one class act in a class of your own. How long will it take you to repay the £1million you owe solely through your own high earning efforts?
The man you placed your love and trust in, born, is not just a user - he's also an abuser. He won't get in contact with you again until he is confident that the withholding of his affections as it were, has served to soften you up to a point where you'll
be gagging for it swallow his next pack of lies whole.
In short, he's a con man, a grifter who feels nothing for his 'marks'.
Given your own healthy financial status, it's a tad trite to say that you're worth far more than him but, honey, regardless of money, the fact is that you've got a heart - and he hasn't.
His head rules
the empty space that is his heart and, where this man is concerned, you're best advised not to let your heart rule your head.
Once married, any assets are shared assets, any debts are legally shared debts. At present his debt is not your problem, but if you choose to marry him, you will make it your problem. Think ahead- in a few years time, perhaps with children, do you want to be on mumsnet with a new thread:
"The bailiffs have cleared our home, the mortgage company have reclaimed the house, it's so unfair my inheritance and hard work has paid for his debts..." If he's not grownup enough to take responsibility for his spending, what sort of father would he be? He wants you to rescue him. Don't play the game - get out now.
No contact is good.
The only result from contact would be the feeling you had been hit by a train. He can only play with your mind at this juncture, and hurt you.
I would strongly advise you to block his number(s). Sit it out and hang tough.
Sad he has been so horrible, but he really doesn't sound ready to have a serious relationship yet, let alone marry if he isn't willing to be open with and share finances and behave resonsibly about money. The fact that you haven't met his parents suggests you got engaged too early as well, and he treats his parents poorly as it's just good manners to introduce your parents to someone before you tell them you are getting married unless you are estranged from them or they live on the other side of the world.
He sounds selfish and unreliable and inconsiderate of other people.
I think next time discuss shared finances/ any debts attitudes to spending etc before deciding to marry someone. You've had a lucky escape even if you don't feel that way at the moment.
To be fair, there's sometimes a good reason why a good man (or woman) isn't in contact with their parents. Even if they seem really nice to outsiders you can't always tell. His father could, for example, be a dreadful control freak and the incontinent spending could be an act of rebellion. Though actually, it sounds more as if the lad has been spoiled rotten; and anyway none of this makes a difference to whether he would be a good marriage prospect (for the avoidance of doubt, I think he would be a very, very bad one).
Regardless of the reasons behind his apparent estrangement from his parents or the reasons behind his massive debts, a good man would not tell his fiancée that those massive debts (which will also be hers once they are married) are none of her business, Annie.
Oh, I totally agree, Jux. It was just a side thought as several people suggested contacting his parents for the true story, but... well, I've probably read a few too many toxic parent threads to believe it's necessarily a good idea. Also, consider that some of the nicest posters on here have had to either cut their parents out of their lives completely or at least severely limit contact. Not being on speaking terms with one's parents is not always a red flag.
I'll see your would not tell his fiancée that those massive debts (which will also be hers once they are married) are none of her business and raise you a would not claim that his financial troubles are more important than her mother's life-threatening illness .
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