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What do you make of this?

(191 Posts)
Notthecatspyjamas Thu 20-Sep-12 14:40:56

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Notthecatspyjamas Thu 20-Sep-12 14:46:59

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SorryMyLollipop Thu 20-Sep-12 14:50:36

I don't think you will get any concrete proof of anything happening between your DH and this former colleague, if anything ever did.
He may have fancied her, fantasised about her but there's not much you could do about this. Maybe just keep an eye on things.

A bigger issue is that you don't trust him because of his past

ledkr Thu 20-Sep-12 14:55:47

Until you said he had previously been a cheat i may have said you were over reacting.
It may be that because you are not getting on you are a bit sensitive.
I looked at dh texts years ago after we had not been together long.
I just told him id looked and apologised and told him aabout a text that had bothered me. He was more upset that id been worried and put me right on it.
I will never do it again but as you have done id just talk to him about it or you will drive yourself mad.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 20-Sep-12 15:05:25

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Notthecatspyjamas Thu 20-Sep-12 15:27:45

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familyscapegoat Thu 20-Sep-12 16:47:31

I reckon one of the main reasons for that difficult patch you went through was because he'd got close to the work colleague, at least 12 months before. Might have been a full-on affair or a mutual crush, but it had the same effect on your relationship. Being distant and argumentative probably made you want sex less and it became a vicious circle. The point being, their texting came before the bad patch.

You might be getting on great now, but that's neither here of there. You mistrust him and with good reason because he lied to you, he looks at porn and you've both got secrets. It's not an honest relationship and if he was unfaithful then and before, it's only a matter of time before he meets some new woman at his new job. Cue him becoming distant, argumentative and....well, you know the cycle.

DoingItForMyself Thu 20-Sep-12 17:18:07

Is there any chance he moved jobs to remove himself from the situation? Could explain why so cold, no kisses etc?

BerylStreep Thu 20-Sep-12 17:24:56

I don't think you sound ridiculous. It sounds like he had some form of affair with her, if not physical, certainly emotional.

Had she suffered a bereavement / break up when you found that first text? Saying you are sad and lonely sounds like he may have started out being supportive of someone who was going through something, which then developed, IYSWIM. I'm just wondering, had she been off work in the period that he was doing all the texting? Perhaps with an illness / depression, and that is why she said it was good to be back at work?

I sometimes send text messages to members of my team, or my boss, but about work related issues and once in a blue moon. I certainly wouldn't know their phone numbers off by heart. Nor do I delete messages to them.

Sounds like he has realised you might find out, has cooled it off with her, and that accounts for the neutral message on the card. LOL about counting names and kisses on the card! Not laughing at you, but because of the lengths cheating spouses drive people to. smile Did you do a spreadsheet? grin

I suppose you need to decide what you want to do. Do you accept that he may have had an EA, but that it is probably over and you may never know the truth?

Or do you keep watching and looking for evidence?

I'm sorry to say that I agree with familyscapegoat.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 20-Sep-12 17:26:02

Always listen to your instincts. I am afraid you may be on the money. The distance, squabbling etc are red flags. Also he lied about texting someone else and only stopped texting after your chat with him - this does not bode well.

I would keep a watchful eye - if you can hack into his FB account and check the private messages there you may find out more...

These are telling

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 20-Sep-12 19:29:15

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MadAboutHotChoc Thu 20-Sep-12 20:16:35

I am afraid I think he is up to no good.

The secrecy.

The lie about texting her.

Plus his behaviour at home.

You are not imagining things, you are not losing your sanity.

angelpinkcar Thu 20-Sep-12 20:29:17

No you are not going mad, thats exactly what I have been experiencing with my DH for sometime now. I have snooped and had lots of info and support on here. I still have not found any evidence as yet but like you my gut is screaming yes yes yes you are right he is shagging someone else!!!!!!!!! I can't find the strength as yet to say get out of my house and don't come back you twat!!!!!!! I will though D Day is coming I can feel it.......

familyscapegoat Thu 20-Sep-12 20:34:45

On the balance of probabilities, I would say he had an affair with this woman. If you'd started a thread 18 months ago just saying your husband was distant and argumentative and manipulating you into thinking that you were sexually rejecting him (when actually he didn't want sex with you, he just wanted you to take the blame for it so he could have an excuse) then I would have suggested 'affair'.

Does it matter though? I don't mean whether he has had an affair because of course that matters. I mean that you know he lied to you and had a secret relationship with another woman. Can you live with that and what it might mean for the future?

Mayisout Thu 20-Sep-12 21:19:29

Can you afford a private investigator and get DH and OW followed?
Might be worth it to put your mind at rest.

I don't know whether he has had an affair, possibly just a close friendship but the question is what will happen now. He may have been forced to keep it under wraps when she worked in the same company and that restriction has gone.

The fact that she suddenly had lots of photos of herself and an OM on her facebook pages sounds suspect to me. Something a PI could check on - does she have a partner or not.

Even if you don't find proof perhaps you could suggest counselling / a weekend away as you are 'concerned that your relationship is not as happy as it could be/ used to be and you would never want to lose him' or something.

DippyDoohdah Thu 20-Sep-12 22:02:00

I think it sounds like there was something going on but its over and they know to keep their distance.its not likelyy you will ever get to know, unless he is caught out again one day and doors a full confession...again, unlikely! If you could re set your stall in terms of basic expectations, maybe you would b feel a bit more control.sorry you are in this x

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 08:36:24

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MadAboutHotChoc Fri 21-Sep-12 09:00:24

You may find this link helpful when talking to him about friendships and boundaries:

www.shirleyglass.com/quizzes.htm

BerylStreep Fri 21-Sep-12 09:10:18

Cats, I was a bit flippant about the card / spreadsheet comment. Sorry.

I see this so much on here, woman suspects H of messing around, and drives herself round the bend (completely understandably) looking for some evidence to support the her gut feeling, which is almost invariably right.

Meanwhile, H engineers arguments and gaslights, so the the woman doubts herself, and very often her sanity, and often ends up on anti-depressants.

It makes me really angry.

Yes, I think he has had an affair with her. I think it was over. What is worrying is that he is now looking at her photos on fb - is he thinking of reigniting things?

I agree with trying to hack Facebook.

PS - what age counts as granny porn? [worried]

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 13:26:14

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Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 14:03:40

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MadAboutHotChoc Fri 21-Sep-12 14:36:37

To find PMs, when you get into his account, go to Messages (on left column) then view these - make sure you look at the archived ones (go to bottom of page to click onto these).

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 14:52:54

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Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 14:53:48

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BerylStreep Fri 21-Sep-12 15:55:51

I don't know what to advise.

If it was my DH, I would confront him, tell him my suspicions and demand an explanation for his behaviour and all the texting 18 months ago.

If he said my suspicions were groundless, I would tell him that if I ever caught him doing anything like that I would be wearing his balls for earrings.

But I'm crap at holding my tongue, and you run the risk of him continuing as is, but getting better at covering his tracks.

Whatever you do, take a copy of the e-mail and keep it somewhere safe.

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 16:34:08

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Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 16:36:43

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Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 16:57:33

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ledkr Fri 21-Sep-12 17:51:37

When I was pg I thought a colleague of dh's was a bit too cozy with him at a retirement do. I stewed it over all day before telling him how i felt.
He was surprised but also mortified that i was upset and agreed that he had thought she was a bit pally considering he didn't know her that well.

What I am saying is surely if you put it like that "Look,I had a nose and now wish I hadnt because Ive been so worried and need you to put my mind at ease" surely if he has nothing to hide he would be fine with that.
You could even show him this thread.

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 18:17:18

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BerylStreep Fri 21-Sep-12 20:50:22

Presumably he has spoken to you about his cheating on his ex girlfriend? That's how you know about it?

Could you broach a conversation with him along the lines of asking him, when he was with the exgf, what made him cheat, what went through his mind, has he been tempted to do the same again, what your views are, etc?

I don't know if this could raised with him easily. It may be a (relatively) non threatening way to discuss expectations around fidelity.

Ultimately, you need to decide are you prepared to continue with the marriage, if you are satisfied that he isn't cheating now (after appropriate warnings), but may have done in the past?

I had a look at that Shirley Glass link that was posted, it is very good.

I've had similar, but on a much reduced scale - went to DH's colleague's wedding evening do with him, obviously pregnant, and another (female) colleague had a visible reaction to me being there - surprised, scared, thrown. I spoke with DH about it, and he acknowledged that this girl most probably had a crush on him, and she had made it very obvious at work. There had been a number of occasions when she had tried to take it further, for example, throwing a party at hers after a work night out, which I think had been designed to escalate things. I am satisfied however, that nothing had happened.

The fact that we were able to discuss it, in the open, made it easier, and I laughed it off (but she definitely fancied him, and given half a chance, would have done something about it).

Sorry this is happening. Enjoy the wine. I'm on cava.

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 21-Sep-12 21:05:32

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AnyFucker Fri 21-Sep-12 21:44:39

what's so great about him ?

not much, I can imagine

a superficial charm, I suppose since he has had loads of ONS's when with his exGF

is there any reason why you think he would change the habit of a lifetime with you ?

he cheated on his ex with you, yes ?

you know the cliche about that, I expect

and I also don't understand why you think the outcome here will be any different

you are a duped romantic dreamer, like all the others he's had

sorry and all that, but this is how it goes with the ones the can't keep it in their pants

Bromptonaut Fri 21-Sep-12 22:05:05

Only you know your DH an his antecedents/motivations but:

As a bloke I've got a few female friends who are colleagues met through current past postings. None of them are, realistically, candidates for affairs but there's a certain 'frisson' about our relationships that's not present with the equivalent chaps. Texts, personal e-mails and facebook etc postings might get slightly saucy, when we meet we embrace and kiss chastely. But there's nothing there. We'll return home to our spouses/partners/singledom. Even if one of us misses last train we'd be on floor/sofa.

And yet some folks get the frisson thing round their necks and lie to partners.

taxiforme Sat 22-Sep-12 07:51:26

Ok, this is me and a colleague.

1. Both married.
2. Get on really well, have a bit of a laugh and cliquey private jokes about stupid things in the office. Text each other about stupid things Lol about stuff that no one else would "get".
3. Sometimes meet for coffee.
4. He was promoted to a new job in a town which I knew well. Sent him loads details of houses/schools ect. Smiley faces and whatever all over.
5. He was my friend. He was happily married (I was not happy at all in my marriage but I dont think this prompted my friendship with him).
6. When he left my office we lost touch. The emails and the smiley texts stopped.
7. I didnt tell my then husband about my work mate. I realise that this was a high risk strategy as it looked like we were having an affair.
8. There was a fair bit of office gossip at the time about us. Understandable but all rubbish.

I dont know what to "make of" what you say, cats. It could be innocent, it might not be..relationships are complex. I think it would be best to let this go. You can only change the future and not mither about what has happened in the past otherwise it will leak poison into your relationship.

PS I am not the OW in your story..this was about 7 years ago!!

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 22-Sep-12 11:07:45

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AnyFucker Sat 22-Sep-12 11:17:56

Just out of interest, OP, are you going to tell him these conclusions you have come to ?

he isn't a good dad if he makes the mother of his children feel insecure

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 22-Sep-12 11:48:55

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AnyFucker Sat 22-Sep-12 12:00:40

Good luck, love. You know where we are if you need us.

DameEnidsOrange Sat 22-Sep-12 12:10:44

Like taxi's situation, this could be innocent, but as he has got previous, it would get my spidey senses tingling.

It saddens me that your last post says inevitably, but like AF says, you know where we are...

sades101 Sat 22-Sep-12 13:51:15

I would question why he would be deleting texts off his phone? I find that quite suspicious... If it was me I would just ask out right. I'm not being funny, but clearly you had a reason to snoop as he is getting close to some woman he hasn't told you about. People might say 'oh that's too over the top' but to have trust in a relationship you need to be transparent. People shouldn't just expect trust, because lets face it there are so many dishonest people. I think it's dodgy sorry xx

BerylStreep Sun 23-Sep-12 11:03:09

Cats, that sounds like a sensible and measured response. Do you think it would be an idea to have a conversation with him, in passing, about fidelity? Such as, 'I was on MN the other day, and you wouldn't believe how many men are cheating - it's so awful etc etc. Stupid of them, throwing away their whole family etc etc.'

suckmycockiness Sun 23-Sep-12 22:39:38

OP, I think if I was in your situation, I wouldn't assume your DH had been unfaithful, BUT....

I would sit down with him and have a conversation that developing habits of secrecy, can eventually in the long term lead to unfaithful behavior. Even if he slightly fancies this woman, by telling you about her and not hiding/deleting texts or emails I think untoward behavior is less likely to happen...

I think when someone in a relationship starts being secretive about other ppl in their lives it can eventually lead to cheating. To re-establish your trust and security you need to have this conversation and hopefully he will listen....

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 27-Sep-12 17:31:06

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Mayisout Thu 27-Sep-12 19:26:38

Siphon some money away into a new account so you can pay private investigator/ lawyer or whatever you might need in the future.

Mayisout Thu 27-Sep-12 19:29:25

Maybe start thinking about a future that does not include him. What would you do jobwise and start thinking about studying or whatever is required. If this stuff was underway and you DID have to split up at some point it would make it easier for you.
Sorry -I don't know how to stop your thoughts sad

AgathaFusty Thu 27-Sep-12 19:46:44

Talk to him. You have your fears, your doubts. They're taking over your life. That can't carry on, but it will do unless you speak to him. Judge his reaction to whatever you tell him, then make your decisions on whether to call time on a relationship with someone you don't trust, or if you want to ignore and carry on.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 27-Sep-12 20:00:56

I would focus on you and rebuilding your life by investing in hobbies, training, friends etc so that your life does not revolve around him and that you become a stronger and more independent person.

BerylStreep Fri 28-Sep-12 09:08:58

Cats, I have no inspiring advice to give, just a ((((hug)))).

I do think you need to confront him again, or this is going to fester. But what are you going to do with the information? If he says 'yes, we did have a thing', then what? If he says 'no, she was a colleague who needed some support at the time, that's all', will you believe him?

Do you have someone in RL that you can talk to?

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 05-Oct-12 23:24:57

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elastamum Fri 05-Oct-12 23:56:00

Im so sorry for you, something similar happened to me a few yrs back, and it is horrible, BUT you were right all along and you have done the right thing by making him leave, so at least he knows you are serious, Dont do anything rash before you work our what YOU want. And tell people. enlist the help and support of family and friends.

It will work out for you. There are loads of posters on here who have been through this, some still with partners, some not. You will get through this..

rhondajean Sat 06-Oct-12 00:03:49

Oh sweetheart I have no words of wisdom at all, but like elasta says, there are lots here who do.

I can offer sympathy and a shoulder if you want to rant though.

Someone with more constructive advice is bound to be along soon.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 00:18:43

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Matesnotdates Sat 06-Oct-12 00:23:43

Oh you poor love. I can't advise you, others have been there and they will, but you will get through this xx

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 00:27:42

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PrincessSymbian Sat 06-Oct-12 00:28:34

Oh, crappy crap! Hugs and tea and biscuits. Now is not the time to make decisions. You need to come to terms with what has happened and then start thinking about what to do next.
So cup of tea, biscuit, fag if you smoke, wine if you drink and plenty of crying.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 00:29:20

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rhondajean Sat 06-Oct-12 00:29:58

I can't think of anything to say that doesn't sound like a platitude or cheap sound bite but I wanted you to know I'm still listening.

PrincessSymbian Sat 06-Oct-12 00:29:59

Your exactly who you thought you were, he is the one who is not what he seemed.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 00:32:23

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rhondajean Sat 06-Oct-12 00:33:55

If you don't know what to do, perhaps this is not the time to do anything.

Have a cry, a shout, a drink, a coffee, a cig, and try to get some sleep.

If you can rest, you will be better prepared to think about it properly tomorrow.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 00:34:40

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rhondajean Sat 06-Oct-12 00:36:03

Well done.

He will be panicking. You will need eventually to talk to him but for now, try to focus on you and the kids.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 00:45:06

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OP your pain is so evident in your words, I really feel for you sad

You've done the right thing by kicking him out...and sod dignity just this once. I'm glad you yelled at him. You are not a fool.

Is there anyone you can talk to in rl? Someone who can help you out with the dc for a while over the next few days?

This is grief and it's so real. There's plenty of people here to hold your hand x

mantlepiece Sat 06-Oct-12 00:46:45

So sorry this situation turned out the way you didn't want.

You obviously love him very much to be so upset by his behaviour, life is shit isn't it.

I think you have done the right thing by putting him out as you need to gather support from your friends and family to help you come to a decision as to the way forward.

Even though you have been suspecting for a while that he has been deceiving you, it is still a shock to find out the truth.

I do think he has been very cruel to tell you the sordid details when you are obviously shocked and distressed.

You will get lots of support and advice here so post away, it will help.

PrincessSymbian Sat 06-Oct-12 00:47:27

You don't owe him any answers, if he wants any chance of fixing this then the first thing he needs to do is back off and give you time and space!

rhondajean Sat 06-Oct-12 00:47:47

He has no right to be annoyed.

It sounds like he's mentally moved on, so now he expects you to have moved on too, but he's known about this for six years, you have only had hours to process!

Do you think you will be able to sleep?

Matesnotdates Sat 06-Oct-12 00:51:13

Thinking of you.....lots and lots of help on here so vent away.

He has NO right to be angry...

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 00:51:34

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Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 00:57:04

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rhondajean Sat 06-Oct-12 01:01:01

There is no right thing to feel, no supposed to, no guide book.

I have to go but I'll look in tomorrow and see how you are.

Try to get some sleep. I know my head is always clearer after a sleep.

And you absolutely did/do not deserve this.

AlfalfaMum Sat 06-Oct-12 01:01:14

Oh sweetheart sad
I just want to reassure you that, in my unfortunate experience, the worst part is almost over; the awful limbo of wondering and feeling crazy, and the shock and rawness that you are now feeling...it gets better, it really does.
Also, tell the people that care about you in rl, let them support you and help you through. This is not your shame, it's his.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 01:03:56

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Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 01:05:05

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LovesPeace Sat 06-Oct-12 01:13:08

Notthecatspyjamas
I've been there - after 13yrs I felt something was wrong, looked for evidence and found it. I thought about what to do. It was a horrible two weeks of my life. Ex was saying he loved me, wanted to be with me, it was all in the past, a mistake, etc. I so wanted to believe him. This was the man I'd trusted, shared my life and love with for all that time.
But you know, I couldn't. I had a long (3 or 4 hr conversation with a kind stranger from the internet who had read my posts on another forum and realised I was in trouble) and he said 'You don't have to live like this, leave him'.
I did, and although it was hard, it was the best thing ever. I was instantly relieved of a burden. A few months in, and I'm sorted in my own clean and lovely house, have met someone new, and remembered how to be happy again.
There's hope for you too - you are an amazing, caring, hardworking, lovely person and you deserve more than this unhappiness.
Try to eat, sleep, drink enough water, and take care of yourself and your DCs. Tomorrow's going to be sunny. x

Matesnotdates Sat 06-Oct-12 01:13:55

You are not going mad, you are in shock and suffering, your mind is going over it obsessively. It will get better, it all so sudden and raw.

MummysHappyPills Sat 06-Oct-12 01:17:01

Oh poor you op. sad I have been lurking, and I thought that maybe you were reading too much into it at first, but obviously I was wrong and you were right to trust your instincts. sad I really feel for you, and hope you manage to work out in your head where to go from here.

weeonion Sat 06-Oct-12 01:19:05

NTCP - just
read whole thread and gutted for you when i reached the more recent posts. nothing to say really apart from i am thinking of you and dcs. x

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 01:24:45

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MiniMonty Sat 06-Oct-12 01:25:06

No, he has NOT destroyed you.

I think you've been treated very badly but no one can destroy you.

I think you need some help over what to next more than another "hugs and comfort" post so here's my two pence worth.

I think Sloooooooow Doooown might be my advice at this point.

You've discovered something you didn't want to discover, you're in a bit of shock. Confused, hurt, upset... (quite rightly so) and I think the best thing I can advise is a moment of calculated inaction. i.e. choose very clearly to do exactly nothing for a while. You'll want to have a revenge event - a screaming match - a drama - and everyone would understand why - but that would, ultimately, undermine you. Take a few days and let the steam cool off, let the raw anger turn into a thought process. You need to be able to think calmly and clearly about what YOU choose is going to happen next and that might take a few days to properly distil down to your best ideas.
Certainly smash a few ornaments in the garden but make no phone calls, send no texts, do nothing "permanent".

Retreat into your castle, steel doors closed, no contact with him of any kind and chill yourself out. Yes get drunk with your best friend, yes take advice from all and sundry friends, relatives and even Mumsnet but just drink it all in and sit tight until the shock has turned into a fact. You are a mother, a decent human and a person who has the high ground.

Once you can be cold and clear about what he's done within your marriage without losing your rag you can talk to him clearly about what you want, what he wants, what's possible etc., etc., etc., and none of us know what that might throw up. Perhaps you'll forgive, perhaps you'll evict. Perhaps you'll rise like a phoenix. But you won't be destroyed.

In the meantime this is not your fault, not of your making and not something for you to beat yourself up about. This has happened TO you not BECAUSE of you.

- - - - - - - - -

The older I get, the more I realise that the only crisis that needs dealing with "right now" is a gas leak. Anything else is worth thinking over for as long as the enemy will let me.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 01:31:14

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Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 01:41:04

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Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 01:59:43

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MiniMonty Sat 06-Oct-12 02:40:54

No... Don't do that... Think differently...

1 - you won't get in
2 - you won't get in and then you'll be standing outside feeing stupid.

Stay away - be bigger.

Read through my post again (you'll want a revenge moment etc) - calculated inaction is your first best course. (without doubt).

The reason you need a few days is because of exactly what you describe - you need to go through (and maybe shout out loud) about going up and slapping her (although be clear that it's not her you are angry with)... Going up and slapping him. Shouting. Screaming. Venting your anger. You need to go all the way through you shock and anger and reverse-guilt. But slapping anyone will deliver nothing to you except a slightly sore hand. It will change nothing and mean nothing. You will demean yourself so don't go there.

You NEED a few days of chilling out and thinking things through.
GO TO BED now and don't get straight back on here first thing in the morning.
Do your life.
Do your kids.
Live well and normally and subdue your anger into clear thought.

You have been wronged and you deserve to face the person who wronged you - but if you do it in temper you will make a fool of yourself and you know it.

VioletStar Sat 06-Oct-12 07:18:41

MiniMonty is right OP. Read your whole thread and really feel for you. Give yourself time, time to think straight. Nothing I can add to the excellent advice above but thinking of you. Be strong.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 07:30:58

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DragonMamma Sat 06-Oct-12 07:50:34

I read your post initially and I didn't think it would have ended up this way. I am so so sorry you are going through this.

Take things at your own pace, don't feel obliged to give him any answers now. Don't forget, he's probably gone over the conversations so many times in his head about what he would say if he was caught out so he's much further along than you are.

Personally, I wouldn't discuss it with him any further for the time being. You don't need any more information that's only likely to make you feel sick.

Is there anybody who can have your other DC for you so you can have time to think or sleep? Can you confide in anybody, your mum or best friend?

Get as much support as you can, don't be tempted to hide his indiscretions.

A big unmumsnetty hug from me

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 07:57:49

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Natnat29 Sat 06-Oct-12 08:17:09

I've just read the whole thread im so sorry this has happened OP, stay strong for your kids and for yourself. Don't lower yourself to that woman's level by going into her work, karma is a bitch- that woman will get hers soon enough

Hope you're ok cat. Please please read MiniMonty's posts again and again.

She is talking utter sense.

Xxxx

SimplyTes Sat 06-Oct-12 08:39:10

So very sorry you are going through this, I also thought when I first read your post that there might be a plausible explaination. I completely understand you are devasted and don't know which way to turn, you do need support in RL, when something happened to me years ago I needed to rage, I used MN but also had friends who would help, take me out for drinks and chats, look after kids when I had to shout and scream at DH for his betrayal and lies.

We are about 5 years down the line, somehow we managed to get through but it took such a long time and part of me will never trust him 100% again and sometimes I don't think I made the right choice to stay.

Your 'D'H doesn't deserve to know what choice you are going to make, how dare he be annoyed?! You need time and support and a chance alone to think. I know those images must be killing you, get rid of the car.........couldn't bear to ever sit in it again. Don't confront OW, zero point as long as you feel you have got the full truth, I can't imagine that there is anything worse you could learn.

Be kind to yourself, NONE of this is your fault, do not let him push you into anything. S x

rhondajean Sat 06-Oct-12 08:46:11

Hi not the I'm back up and checking in how you are. I see you have had good practical advice in the meantime.

I just wanted to say though - you have absolutely not lost your dignity! So you shouted a bit - who doesn't act out of character when in shock? You are not the one who was grubbing around sordidly. You have nothing to be embarassed or ashamed about.

Whatever else you do in fifteen minutes, hold your head high.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 06-Oct-12 09:15:40

So sorry sad

Having been there, here is my advice:

* Do not make any long term decisions - you will change your mind several times over the next several months.

* Do look into your options (legally and financially). The better informed you are, the stronger you will feel and if you do take him back you know for sure its not because you feel you have no choice.

* You will experience so many different emotions and it is a real rollercoaster so ask for TIME and SPACE to process your thoughts and feelings.

* Confide in RL close friends/family.

* Be kind to yourself. Do little things that will help you feel a bit more human - bubble baths, hair cuts, coffee and cake in town etc.

* Remember that NONE of this is your fault. There might have been issues in the marriage but he CHOSE to resolve these by shagging OW.

* Detach, be calm and dignified with him - that way he can't paint you as the deranged nasty wife that he had to get away from.

Take care xx

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 06-Oct-12 09:19:11

P.S I think you are right about there being more to this. From your OP, it sounds like there must have been at least another more recent affair.

And get yourself checked for STDs sad

Doha Sat 06-Oct-12 09:43:24

Why did he confess so easily ???? Did he think you had proof of the affair or did he think it was easier to confess to this than a current one?
Anyway OP please just take your time to decide what youi want. He has absolutley no right to be annoyed-he may feel it is all in the past but or you it is new and raw--a betrayal of low and seedy proportions. Sex in the back seat of a car smacks of desperation.

Tempted as you may be please do not approach the OW don't loose your dignity over this. She wasn't the one cheating on you, it was your (D) H.

Could l get over this---not sure, especially if he is not showing any remorse.

Please get help and support in RL.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 06-Oct-12 09:44:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 06-Oct-12 09:51:36

((hug)) go and run yourself a nice hot bath and have a good cry if you can.

Doha Sat 06-Oct-12 09:54:10

you can do this honey, honest you can. [wish MN had a hug emotion]

Has he collected the DC?
Try and eat and drink something, can you call a friend to come over?

rhondajean Sat 06-Oct-12 10:01:51

You can do this.

One step, one breath, one moment at a time. You can.

Don't try to think ahead just now. Can you call someone to come over?

weeonion Sat 06-Oct-12 19:29:22

OP - hope you got through today ok and managed to get to speak to your friend from work.

BerylStreep Sun 07-Oct-12 03:32:00

sad sorry to hear this.

Are you satisfied that there isn't anything more recent?

Am angry that he is trying to blame you by suggesting it is your fault for not giving him enough sex. This is not your fault.

Don't be bullied into making any quick decisions. His need for a quick decision from you sounds odd, like he has detached already, and is waiting for the go ahead to move on. Sorry, that may not be what you want to hear.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 14:43:34

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AmberLeaf Thu 10-Jan-13 15:07:48

but I also felt free and strong and relieved for the first time in years

Hold that thought.

If you stay with him, you will never be able to trust him and this will eat away at you. It will probably affect how you are towards him and then when he has his next affair he will blame you again

I know it's hard, but there is more to life and love than feeling how you are feeling right now.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Thu 10-Jan-13 15:15:27

I have read NGF and went for an STD test as he never used condoms. He has done neither.

I am sorry. But he does not seem to be trying very hard to win you back.

He is not even protecting you, should you have unprotected sex with him again, which does not sound advisable.

(((Hugs)))

dequoisagitil Thu 10-Jan-13 15:21:26

He hasn't done everything he could to set things on the right path, because he let you go through having an STD test, while he hasn't taken responsibility and had one himself too. That's pretty poor.

I think how you felt during your separation is significant.

Staying with someone after something like this is hugely painful and up and down. Only you can decide whether it's worth the struggle and pain that will be ongoing for months/possibly years yet.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 16:08:02

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dequoisagitil Thu 10-Jan-13 16:22:16

I'm so sorry you're feeling so low.

I think the temptation to keep things quiet can be quite destructive in itself. It can seem like if you're open about what happened, there'll be pressure to end it or that it'll affect everyone's view of you/dh - and if you end up staying together, it seems like more harm caused than there would have been trying to get through it quietly. But it does cut you off from more support and it does mean you feel you're living a lie to some extent, while also letting him off the hook so he doesn't face the full consequences.

Have you done any counselling?

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 16:33:28

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dequoisagitil Thu 10-Jan-13 16:40:43

Maybe try another counsellor? I'm not surprised you didn't go back!

Those things that cheaters do that let you twist yourself into knots and think you're paranoid or ill are horrendous. I don't know how they justify it to themselves - I suppose they are in a place where they're detaching emotionally and laying all the blame at our door.

dequoisagitil Thu 10-Jan-13 16:53:58

Maybe you should ask him to move out again. I think him being there makes it difficult to see clearly. I know that mine could make anything seem reasonable and in his presence I was fine - but when he wasn't around I'd start questioning everything.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 17:07:07

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dequoisagitil Thu 10-Jan-13 17:14:59

No, I didn't. I think it was a mistake on my part, to be frank.

I've never really had the time to myself to know what life would be like without him or for him to be exposed to the consequences. I'm about a year further on than you and I feel it's papered over, yet to bring it to the surface again at this stage seems unreasonable when he's tried hard. sad I should probably take some of my own advice.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 17:26:21

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seventheaven Thu 10-Jan-13 17:27:06

Hello op, I'm very sorry to read about your situation, I can not give you real hugs so cyber ones will have to do.

I'm thinking of practical things that you could do;
If I found myself in your predicament I would insist that he leaves. Unplug the phone/turn off mobile and buy a cheep pay as you go to give yourself some thinking time (give your new phone number only to trusted people), block him from any online means of contacting you. You need some space to get your head straight. Go and seek legal advise, contact gp, getting a counsellor to help you thru this will help, it will also be helpful to have this situation recorded in your medical notes and how it has been effecting you. Inform the school, nursery etc. Collect up all legal documents, bank statements, passports etc, photocopy give to solicitor and keep all safe (family member?). Arrange access with children to take place at a family/friends house if you can (or at least make sure someone is with you when he comes to take kids out. Do not let him have access to them in the house (you need space and pref not to see him for a while). Loose your keys when he has gone and change the locks, log this with your solicitor (not legal but will give you peace of mind that he can't just walk into your healing/get your head together space.

If you have good family/friends inform them of your problem, talk to them, gain support for you and your family. Be kind to yourself, you will roller-coaster, some days you will feel strong, use these days wisely. On the days that you feel washed out and drained just go with that and try to do things that you want to do rather than things you feel that your should be doing. So spend an hour in the bath or watch a film during the day whilst eating chocolates with a friend.

You do not have to do any of this to a time scale, just take one step at a time. If you do decide to split then you must clearly explain to him that you need time to think and give yourself that time. He can always see kids with help of others, until you feel strong enough to converse with him direct, until then do it through a solicitor.

This probably all seems like rubbish advice, but can only look at this from a what would I do pov.

Best of luck and you are not alone, many here will help.

DragonMamma Thu 10-Jan-13 17:48:54

Hey Cats

Glad you came back to update, I've posted a bit further back and often wondered how you'd been getting on.

I'm not surprised you've been through the mill and I'm not sure what to suggest, I'm sure more wise women than me will be along shortly.

Although, if I were in your position I would be struggling the same way you clearly are. Not just because of what it is but the length and depth of his deceit then obviously not crawling on his knees daily, for forgiveness.

I don't think many women could forgive him for what he's done so don't for a second think you have to stay a minute longer than you want to.

I've been in the situation where I just want to switch my mind off because I can't get things out of it and I just want a rest from feeling anything at all. It's draining and soul destroying to be trapped with your own thoughts constantly.

If you can only deal with the situation when he's around then maybe you've got to call it a day? I know I had to with my ex Dp and that was for a much lesser 'offense'.

You'll be fine eventually, we all are. We'll just have a few more battle scars...

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 18:42:21

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Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 22:08:07

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daylily Thu 10-Jan-13 22:20:59

A lurker here but I hope you are ok Cats, you will get through this.

rhondajean Thu 10-Jan-13 22:27:25

Hi not the. I'm just catching up. What a lousy time you have been through.

Where has he gone? Are you ok right at the moment?

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 22:27:43

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rhondajean Thu 10-Jan-13 22:31:52

Your boys will be fine.

You tell them dad has had to go sty somewhere else for now because you and him both have lots to things to do but that he still loves them very much and so do you and he will se them at (teatime/weekend/whatever).

I think you did the right thing. My honest opinion, he thinks he's got away with it and I wouldn't be surprised if after a brief period of remorse and good behaviour he was back at it again. But even if I am wrong, you can't sort your head out with him there.

Do not hate yourself. You did not create this situation, he did.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 22:33:51

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MumVsKids Thu 10-Jan-13 22:39:09

When you say he has gone, do you mean he has moved out?

MumVsKids Thu 10-Jan-13 22:45:49

Sorry, I've caught up now.

Fwiw, I am five years further on than where you are now, except I was the me having the affair sad

DH and I spent almost 3 months apart before deciding to give it another go.
We've been to counselling, talked for hours and hours, shouted yelled - you name it.

We've also had two more DCs in the last five years.

It's not easy, every day there are reminders for him of what I did, and he struggles massively with that, but what I can say, is that in five years, I have not put a foot wrong IYSWIM. My phone, pc, iPad are open to him, nothing is password protected.

I am open and honest to a fault at times and day by day we get a bit stronger.
We will make old bones of our marriage, but only because we both want to.

I deeply regret my affair, and the whole 4 weeks it lasted. I wish everyday I had a rewind button.

Do feel free to pm if you want to talk anymore x

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 10-Jan-13 22:51:21

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rhondajean Fri 11-Jan-13 07:40:22

How are you this morning? Did you manage to sleep?

Im heading to work now but I'll look in this evening and catch up.

Spree Fri 11-Jan-13 08:28:19

I have just read your post and am perhaps about 6 months further along than you.

I made H move out for about 5 months but we are back together and trying again.

All the emotions & how you feel are normal and I still experience some of them today.

He has to do the heavy lifting at this stage, becoming super dad and husband isn't good enough.

He needs to work out why he feels it is ok to do what he has done.

You have read NJF but he needs to read it too, I would also recommend he reads "how to help your spouse heal from your affair" - available as an e-book.

Hard as it is, take this time on your own to focus on you - I had individual counselling sessions which were very helpful for me, lots of exercise (helps with the anger).

My H also did a lot of internal work on himself, going back through his childhood to understand his behaviours and how he allowed himself to become this person.

I still struggle and it is an arduous uphill slog and I don't recommend this path - I started off doing this for my DCs but there are still days when I question my sanity.

Notthecat - heartbreaking thread, am so sorry for you. I am amazed you still find it in you to describe him as "a good man" because, just from what you have told us on this thread, I am sorry, but he is NOT a good man. He may have some good qualities but a good man does not behave in the way he has. We're not just talking about a stupid ONS which some people could work their way through if it was that single solitary event. Your husband did far more than that. He was not a good man when he cheated on women before you (which you say he did) and he is not a good man when he cheated on you with other women (plural).

I wish you every luck in the world but you can do SO much better than this and deserve much better than this. Maintaining an amicable situation for your boys is important but other than that, have no more to do with this man. Please.

dequoisagitil Fri 11-Jan-13 11:17:17

Well done, op. I hope you find clarity and a way forward. smile

So sorry op sad

This is NOT a good man. This man has crushed your self esteem and broken your family up for a cheap ego boost and because he wasn't getting enough sex. A good man wouldn't do this.

It will get easier and better. Hold onto that feeling of strength you had when you first kicked him out. You will be fine x

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 11-Jan-13 13:23:20

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Notthecat - sorry to ask what may seem like a blunt question, but WHY do you want the two of you to survive this? Are you telling us you are happy to carry on in the same way as before? Because, I'm sorry, the likelihood is that this particular leopard isn't going to change his spots. Do you really want to spend the next 5 years wondering if he's behaving himself? Are you saying you are happy to remain married to someone who thinks so little of you that he feels it's OK to sleep around? Possibly risking your health? Thinks so little of his family that he constantly risks it falling apart by cheating on you?

Sorry, but I don't get it.

Spree Fri 11-Jan-13 13:35:20

You are not a mess, you are going through a very traumatic time in your life, learning that the person who should've had your back, has betrayed you instead.

This trauma has been likened to PTSD - be good to yourself, be kind to yourself, don't expect to be able to function as normal.

Have you any family or friends who could help you eg. give you a break by cooking you and DC meals?

What about just keeping a journal of everything you are feeling? It can be quite helpful and cathartic sometimes to put things down in writing.

As for feeling sad, angry, that is all normal for this stage. One thing my counsellor helped me with was telling me to allow myself to feel these feelings, that it was ok.

Hugs to you, and yes, one day, one step at a time, things will get better.

dequoisagitil Fri 11-Jan-13 13:39:06

It just means you're numb. You are so obviously not a hard horrible person.

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 11-Jan-13 13:45:11

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Notthecatspyjamas Fri 11-Jan-13 14:01:06

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Notthecat - am sorry to sound such a naysayer but, generally, once people get to a certain age they are what they are and find it very difficult to change. And experience and reading enough threads on here would tend to back me up that your bloke is unlikely to change.

Now, I can't say for 100% certain your bloke will cheat again. Not every criminal reoffends. But it seems far more likely he will than he won't, doesn't it? And sometimes those risks aren't worth taking. Look at how you felt a few months ago. How you feel again now. How will you feel if in a year's time you learn more unpleasant truths.

Yes, some can change. But usually they are those where it was one drunken stupid mistake of an ONS or a relatively brief physical or emotional affair. Something that was a one off, out of character.

Your bloke cheated on his ex. You told us that. The likelihood is he cheated on previous girlfriends too. While with you he had at least one affair and two ONS that you know about, and one of those while you were pregnant with his child.

That is pretty despicable in anyone's books and is not the behaviour of a good man.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 18:31:05

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Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 18:31:38

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Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 19:01:34

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emess Thu 24-Jan-13 19:57:57

Sorry to hear about this. He is messing you about, keeping you believing that deep down he's good - but he's not. Somebody wiser will be along shortly I'm sure. Meantime, look after yourself - you deserve better than he is treating you!

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 20:26:50

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Whocansay Thu 24-Jan-13 20:36:31

OP what he's doing is making a 'plea bargain', because he's trying to get rid of his guilt by hurting you. This is not the act of a good man. He is a cheat and a liar and he doesn't even appear to be sorry for what he's done.

I would advise getting angry and getting rid.

Ahhhcrap Thu 24-Jan-13 21:34:42

OP so sorry to read your thread, so much of what you've put resonates with me, and I'm sure others. Firstly the way you feel and what you are doing is completely normal in the situation.

I come to the conclusion that some people 'just can't help themselves' when it comes to being faithful. My exH deleted his FB account after I'd caught him cheating. I think it was easier to remove the temptation than actually deal with it - a cowards way IMO.

You will get through this! You will become stronger! And you will be happy again!

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 22:00:37

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LottieJenkins Thu 24-Jan-13 22:14:34

He says he has but has he...........? can you check?

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 22:24:21

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PatriciaHolm Thu 24-Jan-13 22:24:39

Sweetie, you have to listen to what he's telling you. Essentially, he's confessing that he can't stay faithful, even to a woman he loves and who he has children by. He can't do it. He has been unfaithful to you multiple times. He isn't going to change, and essentially he doesn't care to. He's got away with it every time so far, and as far as he's concerned, will continue to do so.

You are worth so, so much more than this, and so are your boys. They don't need to grow up thinking cheating on your partner is normal and acceptable.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 22:27:03

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mammadiggingdeep Thu 24-Jan-13 22:27:52

It's hard to know why he would delete his fb account. Perhaps he wants to minimise your worry and anxiety and him not being on there would be better for the rebuilding of your relationship wouldn't it?

ThePinkOcelot Thu 24-Jan-13 22:32:49

I'm sorry OP, but I have just read all of your thread and I can't believe how more and more "events" (as you called them) keep coming out of the woodwork. I don't think your husband has it in him to be faithful. You say you don't trust him at all! I don't blame you! However, I don't think you ever will. Whenever he goes out, whenever he is late back from work, or is out and not contactable on his mobile, or whatever, you are going to be tied in knots wondering where he is, who he is with and what he is up to. Sorry OP, but I couldn't live like that, and I don't think (from what you have said) that you can either, sorry. Take care OP xx

cakehappy Thu 24-Jan-13 22:39:48

OP, what a mess. The reason that you are feeling this way is a direct result of his horrible, self-centered decisions that he made during your marriage. The reason you cant get over this and totally dont trust him is because he didnt keep his dick in his pants and screwed around ALOT during your marriage. He broke your trust,he was massively unfaithful many times, deliberately, you found out, how on earth can you expect to just get over this when he has ripped the complete foundation of your marriage out from under you? Why on earth do you even want to stay with this horrible man? Why are you questioning yourself?? How on earth could you ever get over what he did?? I know I couldnt. He brought this on himself, ruined your marriage and destroyed all that is good about family. Totally unacceptable. Get rid of him for a while at least and see how you really feel after you have had a significant while to heal and lick your wounds. I personally think that you wont be able to go back, the betrayal is probably to deep. Horrible man. Who does that? I am sure that he is very very sorry, but all a little too late. Fundamentally he is massively flawed, would you even consider doing what he did? probably not. Get Rid I say, sorry if it seems harsh. You, in my mind, have gone above and beyond the call of duty.

Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 23:04:57

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Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 23:07:28

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Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 23:11:01

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Notthecatspyjamas Thu 24-Jan-13 23:12:34

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Ahhhcrap Thu 24-Jan-13 23:25:12

Nothing to be sorry for... You've had a massive shock and you are going through the grieving process now.

Don't worry about checking phone records, it's normal. Was still checking my exH email 2 years down the line!

Just go with the flow of your head and do what us right for you! You'll be all over the place for some time yet

cakehappy Thu 24-Jan-13 23:28:02

No one is ALL good or ALL bad and of course you had your good times in the 14 years you were together, but Holy Fuck, his bad was REALLY BAD. He was just so calleous about it. To the other women, to you to his family...gahhh, what does he expect. He has put you through hell and back. I could NEVER forgive my H for that. Stop doubting yourself. Once you have some time to get your head sorted (which you cant do while he is around) you will start seeing things clearer. Give yourself a break. You should NOT be thinking about him, you should be in full self preservation mode. Take care of you and your children. Dont be a martyr.

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 25-Jan-13 01:29:26

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YellowTulips Fri 25-Jan-13 02:54:25

A wise woman told me me people only ask the questions they already know the answer to, they just needed to be ready to hear the answer....

"I'd be insane to carry on with him wouldn't I?"

The fact you are asking means you already know the answer even if you are scared of what follows.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 25-Jan-13 07:31:25

Tell him that you need more space and time as a week wasn't enough.

Get Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends - you both need to read it.

I very much doubt he is really committed to changing...

nurseneedshelp Fri 25-Jan-13 07:38:55

Sounds innocent to me . Maybe they're just good friends but he doesn't feel able to tell you about her in case you jump to the wrong conclusion?

Whatever is going I hope it all works out.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 25-Jan-13 07:45:28

nurse - did you read all 7 pages??

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 25-Jan-13 08:38:30

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MadAboutHotChoc Fri 25-Jan-13 08:47:49

In that case you know he has no intention of working hard to save the marriage.

When you took him back you should have laid down certain terms and conditions including that he is to work on himself, do some reading, counselling etc to explore his issues and failings that led to him justifying cheating as the answer to his problems.

Notthecatspyjamas Fri 25-Jan-13 13:24:41

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MadAboutHotChoc Fri 25-Jan-13 15:35:38

Yes, one of the most important things that a cheater needs to do is to address their personality traits that led to him choosing to have an affair - these could include selfishness, arrogance or entitlement.

It sounds like his counselling was gentle and not at all challenging, maybe the counsellor was inexperienced in the field of infidelity and instead was re-directed by your H to look at less painful things without him having to dig deep into himself? My DH found counselling very hard and at times painful as it was like looking in a mirror and he hated what he saw and he had to talk through difficult issues - he used to come home exhausted.

I am frankly disgusted that he refused to go for STI tests. I hope you are not having sex with him - he may be infected and he has not managed to pass it to you.

I would also expect FULL transparency and openness - no secret passwords, deleting of texts/emails etc.

I think you need to challenge him a lot more and pull him up on these things - e,g lack of transparency and access to his passwords, reading Not Just Friends (its a very hard book for the cheater to read so it does not surprise me that he doesn't want to read this properly), going for a full STI screening, and looking at himself in further depth.

muddyboots Tue 29-Jan-13 10:03:00

I am going through something very very similar and I think I feel much the same as you.

My cheating, lying bastard of a husband is currently going through psychotherapy to sort himself out and has miraculously become the model husband and father. Our 'marriage' has suddenly become everything I ever wanted (apart from the seperate bedrooms!)

You have has lots of great advice on here (which I should follow too!) But I just wanted to add that you are not the only one to feel so undecided when it 'appears' that their partner has changed. It is very difficult to be without the man you love and exhausting to be so torn in so many directions. It would be so much easier for you if he was still with the OW....or accidentally had that little tumble under the lorry.

I don't really know what I'm trying to say....don't beat yourself up for loving the man you spent 14 years with and who has fathered your children. You are supposed to love him because you are a normal, loving human. He is a bastard.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 09-Feb-13 18:33:47

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Notthecatspyjamas Sat 09-Feb-13 18:36:39

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Ahhhcrap Sat 09-Feb-13 18:38:23

Seriously!!! Omg what does he think was going to happen? A few weeks go past and you'll be ok??

It does all seen to be about him.. My dh did something similar 2 years ago and I still have bad days!

I'm furious for you! He should be falling over himself to make you feel better I stead of trying to sweep it under the carpet.

I'm so sorry you are going through this

badinage Sat 09-Feb-13 18:46:23

This is going to sound like an odd suggestion, but have you thought about 'just being'?

The kicking him out and letting him back isn't working. It must be as confusing as hell for the kids too.

Your husband's made a choice hasn't he? He knew what he should have done to start putting this right, but he hasn't. He's taken from this situation what's been helpful to him not you.

So you can make a response choice, can't you?

You can choose to be free of any expectations of him and get your own life in order so that you aren't co-dependant on him any longer.

You can focus on you for a while, not what he's done and what he still isn't doing.

You could get yourself some of your own expensive counselling. Pay for retraining. Rediscover old friends/interests, or find new ones. Reinvent yourself a bit.

Every action or inaction in your husband's case, has a consequence.

He can predict what's going to happen at the moment. Things seem to be good and he thanks fuck he got away with it all. Then you have a meltdown and he'll be icked out for a while. Then he'll be let back and the cycle repeats.

How about doing something different then?

Cos' this isn't working is it?

badinage Sat 09-Feb-13 18:47:30

kicked out for a while!

BesameBesame Sat 09-Feb-13 19:14:54

OP I have just read through your thread.

Your H has not even begun to work on saving your marriage. CBT does not address infidelity. So great, your H 'feels better' about himself whilst you sound utterly at your wits end.

He is beginning to lose patience with you because he clearly doesn't really feel remorseful for what he has put his family through. Cue, in the near future, another ONS which he'll convince himself is your fault.

He is not a good man. You don't need him and I believe your mental health is at risk if you don't detach from him very soon. You have DC's who need a DM who isn't overwhelmed and preoccupied by what their DF has done/is doing/may do.

TBH if I knew him I'd punch his fucking lights out.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 09-Feb-13 19:40:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

badinage Sat 09-Feb-13 19:48:08

Stop reacting.

Just be.

What happens when you do these knee-jerk, emotional responses is that you regret them later - and all your power gets lost.

Do something different.

Pause for a moment and think about you.

Not him, not what he's done, not what you should do in the moment.

Get some help. Proper therapeutical help. Go talk to someone. Or several; therapists, solicitors, a good friend - and rant here.

Words from him are cheap. Actions speak louder. He's 'done' nothing much, apart from lie.

Practically speaking, how can you be smart here and break away from him?

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 09-Feb-13 20:01:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BesameBesame Sat 09-Feb-13 20:24:43

OK I now have a large wine.

I think bad is right too. If you want to show how smart you are you could, for a start, step back a bit from the situation. Act like an observer to what is happening with Mr Gobshite. Treat it like a series of dance steps - one does one step and the dance partner does another accordingly - and so they fit together in a series of movements. Picture it literally if it helps.

That's what you and he are doing. You know it so well you have forgotten how you learned it, it's like second nature. Well, all you have to do is notice how you respond to what he says (because he's DOING fuck all). Once you begin to see yourself in the dance you can do a different step next time. He can only do what he does to you because you are in it together, I'm afraid. You are enabling him to act like a twat. But you can stop that. You can't stop him being a twat but you can stop helping him to be one by stepping away.

When you can do that you'll begin to see what other's are seeing. HTH

BesameBesame Sat 09-Feb-13 20:27:26

FWIW by the way, I kicked out my DP on yesterday. Compared to your sorry-arsed bloke mine was an angel and he drove me INSANE!!!!!
So it can be done.

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 09-Feb-13 21:33:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

badinage Sat 09-Feb-13 21:38:35

Being smart means getting the means together to live an independent life.

Making sure that you get your full share of equity if you own your house and it has to be sold. Or getting to keep it for a few more years if you've got very young children and FT work's going to be difficult right now. If you've got older kids but have shelved your career, taking steps to make a new one or get back to where you left off. Re-training, upskilling. Getting out there and meeting new people, or re-connecting with those who you once valued, but fell by the wayside when you did the whole married with kids malarkey. More immediately, get some therapy of your own to help with your your shattered, roller-coaster emotions and lost dreams.

The only caveat to this plan is don't do it if you're still hoping he'll miraculously change and it will all come right in the end.

Assume he won't.

If he does, promise yourself the only conditions will be that he gets his act together, gets some proper therapy and owns up to being a selfish dick all his life and realises that's why he can't keep it in his pants.

This bloke didn't get like this overnight.

There will have been 100 examples of shitty, entitled behaviour where he's put himself first over the years. Look back and recognise them for what they were. Stop idealising him as ever being a great husband and father. He might have passed for a reasonable one at times, but I doubt he's ever been 'great'. Look at your whole marriage in the round.

badinage Sat 09-Feb-13 21:40:12

Please stop these knee-jerk threats that you don't have the strength for just yet to follow through on.

You're not yet there yet to say you want a divorce and he knows it.

Ahhhcrap Sat 09-Feb-13 21:40:48

Good for you OP

Seems he only agreed to do what you want him to when he absolutely has to.. He should have been begging you when you needed it, not just because you are now sticking up for yourself! Take control... It can only get better! Look after yourself hun x

Notthecatspyjamas Sat 09-Feb-13 22:08:43

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BesameBesame Sat 09-Feb-13 22:08:55

Agree again with bad.

You are not ready to follow through. Like I said, this is another part of the dance. Take a step back.

What is your first, honest gut reaction? To shun him but deep down think "at last he's seeing how good we are, that's exactly what he needs to do"?

Bugger what he needs to do. What YOU need to do is detach your mind from his. Think for yourself.

You have two choices. Either accept him exactly as he is OR do something different which is only about you.

And I'm fine actually, thank you for asking OP. I didn't need to be strong. I think you can dump the idea that you have to be strong to get rid of this fuckwit. Because if you subscribe to that idea you will never do it whilst you are engaged in trying to change him. That will only sap your energy and leave you feeling weak. I just took a step back and began observing him.

It was easy after that.

BesameBesame Sat 09-Feb-13 22:10:09

OP tell him to go.

badinage Sat 09-Feb-13 22:21:39

You don't want a divorce.

Yet.

So right now, unlock the loo and come out like a grown-up.

Start talking and be honest. Tell him that you'll watch and wait to see what he does over the next few months without having to be told and you'll start getting on with your own life.

If he does what's necessary without a broom up his arse or the constant idle threats of divorce, you'll be in a stronger position to make a decision once you've got your own self back on track.

By that time, you might find you don't want him. Either way, assuming he walks the talk and you reinvent yourself, you'll both be better people and parents, either together or apart.

buildingmycorestrength Sat 09-Feb-13 22:24:40

He felt good about himself after counselling...hmmm...he got to talk about himself a lot and have someone 'validate his feelings' I expect.

Not. The. Point.

You don't need this.

You and your kids deserve better.

Choose a brighter, happier future.

BesameBesame Sat 09-Feb-13 23:35:24

OP I sincerely hope you aren't picking him up and dusting him off hmm.

Buzzardbird Sun 10-Feb-13 03:34:43

Are you ok?

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