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He wants to separate

(574 Posts)
McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 02:06:43

My DH and I have had a rough couple of years. We live far away from family and close friends and he has a job that involves working evenings and going away for a couple of nights a month.

We have three children - 6, 2 and 3 months. About 10 months ago he had a brief fling with someone he works with. I told him I wanted to end the relationship and he begged me not to. We carried o and went to counselling and things were fine for a while.

Our third child was born in April and things were good for a few weeks but then I started to feel that things were going wrong again and that there may be someone else. On Tuesday night I found a message in his phone. From him to a woman he works with saying that he loved her. It turned out that he had slept with her twice the previous week.

On Thursday night we had a long talk. I can see now that in many ways I have pushed him away for fear of getting hurt again and that he has gone to someone else for that love and affection.

That night we made love - he instigated it and then immediately afterwards he said he wanted a separation. I texted the OW and begged her to please leave him to think about the situation and about our family. Pathetic I know, but I was desperate.

He asked for some thinking time and he stayed away all last night to think about things. This morning her came back and said that if we were to have any sort of future we needed to be honest with each other. He was acting in a very kind and conciliatory way - saying to our baby "daddy's been very silly" and he took us out to lunch and we had a fun day with the kids. The only blot was that he was getting texts from this woman all day and each time he got one he became more distant.

When the kids went to bed we talked, I again apologised for the mistakes that I have made in our marriage but he refused to listen, said that he'd been miserable for years and that he wanted to separate.

He said that he doesn't want to move out as the house is half his and he can't afford to pay half the mortgage and rent somewhere else. But he does want to separate. I know in my heart that we can turn things around and be happy but he doesn't want to listen.

I can't bear the thought of losing him and the thought of sharing custody of the children and breaking their hearts is too much to contemplate.

I don't know whether to force him to leave so that he will (hopefully) miss me and the kids (though obviously this would also give him more time to spend with the OW) or to try and keep hammering home the fact that we could be happy if only he would live me another chance.

He won't even let me cuddle him. I can't eat or sleep and I can't talk to m y friends about it because they all think I should have left him the first time he strayed.

I just want the opportunity too show him how much I love him but he won't let me.

Tortington Sun 09-Sep-12 02:18:17

from my POV i wouldnt even entertain this man. however i would drive home the absolute certainties about his resonsabilities as a parent - ant how his other woman might consider this a fun time - and he might also - however this means that if they become serious inany way - he willstill have the same responsabilites. as a parent he still has 3 kids and he can have as many wild fuck fest s as he likes but they will always be there. that he cannot and should not stay in a house with you and carry on other relationships as this is emotional abuse.

you should tell him you will sell the house
you will have a life
you will carry on
you will meeet and fuck other men

you see they forget that actually you are a fuckable person
you should remind him as his children will get to know a step mother
his children may also know a step father - who in the most likely of circumstance is going to be far more prominant in their lives

and you will get far better fucks
tell him that if not true

this is a drama predominantly based around him - oh joy how lucky for this man to have so many women begging for his attention.

tell him to shit on the pot or fuck off - grow a spine and get on with tlife without him - his is an absolute catagotic definition of a fucking shit

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 02:35:45

Thanks custard.

When we spoke this evening I kept saying how sorry I was, I never really saw things from his point of view before. After the first fling I wanted him to fight for me and for our marriage. I wanted him to do all the running and to prove his love to me. I realise now that I should have done more to show him how much I still wanted him. I pushed him away and straight into the arms of someone else.

I don't think the relationship with the OW is that serious. I know that he thinks he loves her but it's only been 2 weeks since they started a physical relationship. I've known him for 10 years and I think he's looking for an escape from the boredom and stress of family life.

I want to be completely honest with him, if I told him I wanted a divorce or to sell the house it would be a complete lie - because I don't.

I just don't know how to show him that he's. Making the hugest mistake of his life.

OnlyWantsOne Sun 09-Sep-12 02:49:00

Op he isn't making a huge mistake of his life, he's MADE the huge mistake by having an affair. It was his CHOICE to, please do not live by the idea that YOU should have stopped him by doing x & y ... He's behaved terrible & now wants to stay in The marital home with you presumable maintaining the role as care giver for his children whilst he is free to carry on with the OW. where does this leave you? How can you cope with that? Move on from that? How long does he think it would be acceptable?

He is tryIng to have his cake & eat it!
Tell him to grow up. And tell him to leave!!

Charbon Sun 09-Sep-12 02:54:20

I'm sorry for what you're going through and you must be devastated, but I can't emphasise more strongly that you are approaching this in completely the wrong way. Your husband has been unfaithful with two different women in the past year. Now he wants to check out from your marriage, but wants all his home comforts and assets to remain intact. The only reason he's doing this I suspect is because the current OW doesn't have a home for him to live in.

I think you're also taking the wrong approach in blaming yourself for 'driving him' to this second infidelity. It was understandable that you had some defences in place after the first betrayal, but it's likely that regardless of how you'd been with him, he would have still been unfaithful again as soon as an opportunity arose.

Have a think about how much respect you would have for him if you'd had an affair, he forgave and took you back, you were caught out yet again, told him you wanted out but expected him to support your lifestyle while you continued having sex with an OM.........and he was apologising to you and begging you for another chance? Would you seriously respect him if he did that? Would it persuade you to stop being unfaithful and commit to your marriage?

Even if he did give up the latest OW and agreed to try again, he would have zero respect for you and what's more, your own self-respect would be at rock bottom.

For the sake of your own self-respect and dignity, I suggest you tell him that you will not live with someone who doesn't want to be in your marriage and who intends to continue sleeping with other women while living under your roof. It would be a terrible relationship to model to children and your response to it will teach them that women are doormats who put up and shut up.

So I'd ask him to leave and I'd consult a lawyer about your rights.

differentnameforthis Sun 09-Sep-12 02:59:00

Your withdrawal is NOT an excuse for him to have an affair. DO NOT believe that! He got caught shagging someone else (twice - this isn't the first time) & is now trying to make it all your fault. Nice!

Other than that, I agree absolutely with custardo. He leaves her, or he leaves the house. Why should he get to stay & (no doubt) have you run around after him, clearing up after him, buying & cooking his food etc, when he is shagging someone else! As said before, it is emotional abuse & bloody tortuous for you! He knows you want him to stay/make a go of it, so while he is at home you will be doing your utmost to make him see that & you will become his cleaner, his cook & eventually, he will start sleeping with you again because he wants his cake & he wants to at it to. He knows all this. He knows that you will try super hard to keep him. And he will be loving every minute of it.

Sorry, OP I know you are hurting but by doing what he wants you are letting yourself be taken for a ride, getting walked all over & you my love are the only one who will come out of this in a worse state than when you went in.

differentnameforthis Sun 09-Sep-12 02:59:45

I pushed him away and straight into the arms of someone else

NO YOU DID NOT!

izzyizin Sun 09-Sep-12 03:21:00

Custardo speaks the truth according to the tried and tested gospel of this board.

Dry your tears, stop clinging to his ankles being a doormat, and wise up.

The only thing you need to hammer home is exactly what Custardo, in their infinite wisdom, has advised you to tell him and add that, as you have no intention of letting him have his cake and eat it, you are going to be consulting a lawyer who specialises in divorce and family law with a view to divorcing him for adultery.

Seriously, honey, you don't need this duplicitous shit and his crap but if you are insane want him, you're only going to get him by playing hardball with his balls

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 07:15:42

Well I've aaked him to take the kids out for the day so I can get the ball rolling in separation.

I'd like to return to my home town where I'd have some support and help with kids.

Would I need his permission to move the kids 60 miles away or can I legally just do it? He said if I tried to do that he'd stop me.

His irregular hours means he would always have difficulty in looking after the children for specific days every week. He said we would need to work together to overcome this ie. i look after the kids whenever he wants me to. Obviously I have told him that I am not accepting that.

TheProvincialLady Sun 09-Sep-12 07:23:14

Ugh, what a disgusting excuse for a man. Having affairs while his wife is pregnant and trying to blame her for it.

I advise you to STOP doing his cooking and washing straight away. Now that you are no longer a couple, why the hell should you? And you are absolutely right to refuse to accommodate his wish to carry on his life exactly as he would like to while you give up all chance of a life or a career. Moving 60 miles away shouldn't be a problem - I doubt very much that he can stop you (and how like such a man to threaten to...), but do make it an absolute priority to see a solicitor and DON'T tell him anything from now on, as he will use it against you.

<Disclaimer : I am not a lawyer>

When my DH & his ex broke up, she moved 80mins drive away with his DD. His solicitor said that if it was less than a three hour round trip & she could show that it was in the interests of her & DD, it was unlikely to be challenge-able in court.

I don't know if that's true, as he decided in the end that if if made ex-W happier it was likely to be best for DD.

You are best off talking to a solicitor I think.

BalloonSlayer Sun 09-Sep-12 07:59:54

Get to a solicitor ASAP.

I'd recommend pointing out to your H that you can't dump your wife and young family and leave them without any support, then stop them moving to where they have support. He needs to understand that separation/divorce/fucking other women means that he does not have any say over you any more. You will be the primary carer of the children, he will not. That's what divorce is, and divorce is what HE has CHOSEN.

To "His irregular hours means he would always have difficulty in looking after the children for specific days every week. He said we would need to work together to overcome this " I'd suggest you say: "Well we can leave that for the court to decide,"

Please DO NOT think this is your fault. He is trying to have his cake and eat it. The sex and then telling you straight afterwards he wanted to separate is cruel in the extreme... just remember that whenever you start softening towards him/

BalloonSlayer Sun 09-Sep-12 08:01:49

I want to be completely honest with him, if I told him I wanted a divorce or to sell the house it would be a complete lie - because I don't.

I just don't know how to show him that he's. Making the hugest mistake of his life.

The only way is to kick him out and see a solicitor "about divorce." I can assure you that a solicitor will not let you proceed with a divorce unless you are sure, but your H does not have to know you are not sure. But kick him out you must.

Markingthehours Sun 09-Sep-12 08:16:27

Right - you've got the day, presuming he has agreed to take the DC out.

Get all your paperwork together: rent/mortgage stuff, wage slips, marriage certificate, passports, birth certificates, bills, bank stuff, credit cards etc. Can you get some cash out to tide you over?

Line up a choice of 3 solicitors to call tomorrow for an appointment.

When he comes back ask him to move out for a few days so that you can both have some space and time.

OnlyWantsOne Sun 09-Sep-12 08:26:03

Make sure you don't leave the marital home. Do not move out. Make him leave. When you're divorced and your finances are secured THEN you can move closer to family etc. until then you just have to tough to out.

Good luck op. he sounds like a priZe manipulative wanker

Jemma1111 Sun 09-Sep-12 08:30:57

What a total utter bastard your H is , having affairs whilst you are pregnant and with other small children to look after , and then not even having the decency to take the blame and full responsibility for his actions !

And now the cheeky fucker wants to stay in the marital home with you as his cleaner, cook etc and not forgetting having sole responsibility for looking after his kids whilst he goes out shagging anyone willing ? .
You'd be mad to put up with this , as others have said get the ball rolling , kick the toe rag out and hang on to your self respect .

I would also bet that these two affairs are only what you know about , I would believe he's cheated on you a lot more than you know .

Rowanhart Sun 09-Sep-12 08:48:14

This man has little respect for you and having sex with someone else is more important to him than your family and your children. This is now a fact.

Your job as a mother is to now protect your children as much as possible from the destructive actions of this man. You need to start making financial provisions for you all. He has shown his cards. Now you need to keep yours as close to your chest while you sort the future out.

CremeEggThief Sun 09-Sep-12 08:53:57

He is a stupid fucking wanker who wants to have his cake and eat it. How DARE he treat you with such little respect?

NONE of this is your fault. Kick him out, so you can have time to think about what you want to do.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 09:02:16

Thanks for your messages. I am beginning to realise that I deserve better. I think the fact that he was out with the OW til 2am on the day I was due to give birth to our third child says how much family means to him.

Markingthehours Sun 09-Sep-12 09:06:52

McB - that is disgusting. What kind of man can treat his wife and DC with such total lack of care and respect.

You will be well rid of this poor excuse of a man.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 09-Sep-12 09:08:31

Blimey - he is really having his cake and eating it!!

Shags with other women and yet he gets to blame you, and you still provide him with his home comforts (until OW is able to take him in) sad

He made these choices - instead of talking to you, writing to you or suggesting counselling he decide the best solution for his issues is to cheat.

The only thing that will motivate this man is LOSS.

Tell him he has checked out of the marriage so he has to leave - that way the reality of what he has done will hit him far more quickly.

Do not take the blame - none of this is your fault.

2wwmadness Sun 09-Sep-12 09:16:36

I don't want to read and run but I gotta be quick as I need to dress ds. I just wanted to say I clung to a cheating vile excuse of a man. I left when my ds was 2 weeks old. He's 17 weeks now and I'm nit gunna tell you it doesn't hurt. But i promise you, from the bottom of my heart, it hurts a hell of a lot less than living with the knob. I am worth more. So are you. Tell yourself one million times a day. Play music loud and dance with your kids. You are fantastic and show that bastard that you don't need him. You have more respect for yourself. I know how hard it is I really do. But tell yourself enough times you can do it and you are worth more and you will be amazed what you can achieve. My heart goes out to you. It's terrible this part, but in a few weeks you will be the one telling someone else that they can do it and your happy. I promise.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 09:18:39

I'm not saying that I haven't made mistakes. I can be moody and I haven't always been that supportive of the long working hours and trips away that his job demands. And instead of appreciating that his work gave us our main income I resented the fact that it took him away from us and that it often meant nights and evenings on my own. I got stuck in a rut where I resented him for not being able to see friends etc. whereas I see now that much of this was down to a lack of effort on my part. This resentment made me moody and incapable of showing him the love I felt for him.

He's still refusing to move out though. The OW does have her own place.

His family are being very supportive towards me and they are lovely people who I love and respect greatly. I'm afraid that if I kick him out I will lose their love and support. His father has been very angry with DH for his behaviour and has told him to think about his responsibilities to the kids.

Look, this marriage is over. If family pressure and the threat of financial losses make him 'agree' to remain in the marriage and give up his affairs, what will happen is he carries on shagging around only is a lot cleverer at hiding it, and every time you ask him to do something or get upset or annoyed with him he will play the 'You wanted me to stay, I'm still here but I don't know why I bother' card until you are a pyschological wreck. there is no way to make a man love you and stay with you if he doesn't want to, and it is far, far better to make plans for the future than to cling and beg and whine.

Get a good lawyer ASAP. In the meantime, can you move into a separate bedroom? And stop doing any housework for him: tell him that as you are no long er a couple he can cook and clean for himself, you will take care of the DCs but not him.

Markingthehours Sun 09-Sep-12 09:27:13

McB - what you describe about resentment over his work and moodiness sounds like the kind of problems many marriages have. In a normal/decent relationship these things get talked about and worked on. Only someone who wants out uses them as an excuse to start shagging other people.

HE has made the choice to be unfaithful. NOT you. HE made the choice to chat up other women, arrange 'dates', arrange nights/time away to have sex with other women. To spend his time and both your money in seeing and sleeping with other women. Time and money that could have been spent on your DC. How was any of that your fault?

He's still refusing to move out because he is a totally selfish knob. If you needed any further proof that it is all about him - you have it right there.

Try and get his Dad to help persuade him that he needs to go temporarily at least while you get your head around all that has happened.

2wwmadness Sun 09-Sep-12 09:28:31

I was exactly the same. Moody coz his job took him away Ect, only it didn't have to, he could of turned opportunity down for me sake of family one with the baby and I. I did. Your h could of to, also, he was shagging his staff. Yours was to. Now do you think he could of come hone to you and the kids and he chose not to. I'm certain he did at times.
You are worth more.
The family thing I also understand, I have had phone calls and support of his family. That doesn't have to change. And who cares if it does! You will be so happy in a few months it won't matter

PatronSaintOfDucks Sun 09-Sep-12 09:31:41

OP, I am sorry I do not have time to write out a proper post, but I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with the others on this thread. You have done nothing wrong. You husband sounds like a complete knob of a man-child who is trying to sit on two chairs. He totally has you wrapped around his finger. Please pull the pink shades off your eyes and see him for what he is - a man who betrayed you and your/his children twice and who is now avoiding all responsibility and creating a situation of emotional abuse. It's time to get angry. And trust your instincts. When he strayed for the first time, you were right - he should have fought for you and your love and your marriage.

Your situation is horrid, but please know that you will come through it, and be much much better off in the end. And you husband . . . well, I do not know what kind of woman will want a cheating man-child with three children by an ex-wife.

OrangeImperialGoldBlether Sun 09-Sep-12 09:36:31

No, move HIM into a separate bedroom! The OP is pregnant and needs her sleep.

OP, the biggest mistake of anyone's life was your belief that if only you'd behaved differently, he wouldn't sleep with other women. He has really done a mind fuck on you, hasn't he?

You need to rip the plaster off this marriage. Get angry. Go to see a solicitor tomorrow and tell them you want to move back to your family but you want to stay in the family home without your husband until you're able to do that.

Keep reminding yourself and him where he was when you were due to give birth and NEVER call him a good father again. Anyone can play lego or football with a child. A good father wouldn't be shagging someone on the night his child is due to be born.

Keep saying to yourself that he is manipulative and you can't trust a word he says. He will blame you. That's what people like this do.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 09:57:54

I think that's half the problem. He loves his kids but the responsibility is too much for him and he's resented me because he sees the family as a constraint on his freedom.

panicnotanymore Sun 09-Sep-12 10:02:09

I'm not saying buy the book, just read the intro blurb. It is interesting, and I personally think it does work, even if it goes against the grain of everything everyone seems to preach. www.stopyourdivorce.com/

Put your energies into yourself and your kids, don't waste any on him. None! It won't help you keep him, and it will make you miserable. If he wants to be with OW let him, as there is nothing worse than being stuck with someone who is intent on treating you badly.

They say the best revenge you can take on an OW who sleeps with your (not so D)H is to let her have him wink

Jemma1111 Sun 09-Sep-12 10:02:42

So the responsibility is too much for him having children is it ?
Well then he should never have had them and stayed single leaving you free to have your children with a man worthy of being a father .

He's a selfish twat

oh come on! this is the second affair in what a year? one whilst you were pregnant one whilst you were caring for a young baby and two other kids? this is awful of him and so not anything you've done.

he has to move out. he is utterly taking the piss thinking he can dump you but still live in his domestic world with his kids and you doing all the work and saving himself money on having to pay rent and a mortgage. having to pay rent and child support towards your children's home is the result of repeatedly cheating on and leaving your wife. it's a direct consequence not a 'if you feel like it'.

i honestly think this begging and pleading stage will wear off soon and you'll realise what a shit he's been to you all and how much he is taking the piss. at this point you're desperate to make it all go away and will say and feel anything to make that possible.

twice in a year. there is no way you can be accused of having not gotten over the first and pushed him into second - there wasn't time between the two for you to have gotten over it or for him to have really felt any remorse before he jumped in bed with the next one.

LittlePebble Sun 09-Sep-12 10:08:49

OP listen to what Charbon says, if the roles were reversed would you respect a man for begging you to stay and apologising if you were the one out sleeping with other people? Your actions at the moment are only serving to make him want to be with you less.
If you want him back the only way you'll achieve that is to stand up to him and show him you don't need or want him.

god i hadn't read the second page - you're pregnant again with this man? or am i misreading? sorry.

Xales Sun 09-Sep-12 10:25:52

If he is determined that he wants out there is nothing you can do to stop that. Two affairs?!?! He is not going to change.

What you can do is behave with dignity and strength. Begging him to give you another try is just going to end up in him wanting to scrap you off his boot like shit. As much as it breaks your heart in two you need to don your war mask and not let him see a single chink in your armour from now on.

He doesn't get to decide that he wants out then keep the main bedroom and have you still perform all his domestic and skivvy duties.

He has to move into another room as you are the pregnant one and you are the one the children will come to during the night.

Stop skivvying for him. You will not get any thanks or recognition. You will get used.

Get the ball rolling on a divorce. Don't think you can keep this amicable. He is already telling you he is going for what he wants by staying in his house because it is his.

He is not your friend right now. Do not treat or trust him as one. You need to be strong for you and your DC.

Please get an STI check as soon as possible. He has played fast and lose with your health.

Good luck.

MrsTomHardy Sun 09-Sep-12 10:28:13

Great advice on here.

Sorry you are going through this. Keep strong

clam Sun 09-Sep-12 10:32:00

I didn't read it as her being pregnant again. Thought she had three dcs, youngest of which is 3 months but one affair went on whilst she was pregnant with that youngest.
Can someone confirm? On phone and hard to scroll back! blush

EdithWeston Sun 09-Sep-12 10:43:38

I agree with the advice on this thread. Use today to find all the key documents you will need for a divorce and line up solicitors to ring for an initial consultation. Do not move out at this stage.

Looking at the stresses in the marriage, including your role, is a valid step after one infidelity if you decide to have an attempt to make it work (and I think that is a perfectly good course of action), but you've done that and he has gone on to further infidelity. His interest in saving the marriage just isn't there - either he doesn't value fidelity at all (in which case staying means signing up for a lifetime with this) or he simply does not see it as something that matters in respect of his relationship with you (much the same outcome, but on a roller coaster of broken promises). The bottom line is that he doesn't agree with you about the future of your marriage, and is demonstrating it by his actions.

You are worth more than that. The tough bit now is to act on that. Get all his stuff out of your bedroom and into a spare room. Do the minimum for him consistent with your domestic standards (ie not his laundry, other than to move it out of the way so you can stay on top of the rest, but don't deliberately sabotage it). Treat him as a lodger who you can't wait to get rid of. Put all your energy into yourself and the children.

CouthyMowWearingOrange Sun 09-Sep-12 10:55:16

He fucked someone else while you were pregnant with his child, you took him back when he begged, and now he's cheated on you again?!

He then tells you he won't leave the house?! He is saying to you that he wants his cake and to eat it too. He wants little wifey at home looking after his DC's, that he can stumble back to after fucking the OW.

Why aren't you more ANGRY?! I am angry with this man on your behalf. angry

He is treating you like a doormat. Don't let him. You do not have to stay with someone who is having affairs.

He cheated on you TWICE at very vulnerable times - once when you were pregnant, and once when you have a tiny baby. That you know of. sad. He is a bastard.

Bluegingham Sun 09-Sep-12 11:09:04

You know, MN can be a bit "leave the bastard" when actually there are times when things could be worked out. But in your case OP, he really is a proper bastard. His love for his children is such that he'll screw someone else whilst their mother is about to give birth, reduce her self esteem to nothing, and expect to stick around and watch her suffer whilst he carries on dipping his wick. What sort of role model is that?!!
Get very angry. Imagine a man doing this to your daughter. If she grows up around behaviour like this she'll think that's normal.
His behaviour is disgusting.
And as for his parents' support, spare them no detail of the depths of his depravity. Right down to the OW texting whilst you're all out for the day.

CouthyMowWearingOrange Sun 09-Sep-12 11:09:42

The courts will set contact days around his hours. If he can't or won't rearrange his work hours on those days (the courts now ask to see proof that they have asked for flexible working around the proposed contact arrangements AND have been refused by their employer before accepting work hours as a reason for not having defined contact arrangements, as long as you insist on that).

If his employer has refused flexible working to allow set days off, in writing, then the court will arrange practical access around his work pattern.

I will say, the courts probably won't stop you from moving 60 miles away, unless he applies for a prohibited steps order. If it is less than 100 miles and he can drive, a PSO is unlikely to be granted. However, the court may well say that you have to do all transport. Or at least half.

He really is being a controlling bastard, isn't he? He won't leave the house, he doesn't want you to move back to your home town because it might affect his contact with the DC's (which would be a direct consequence of his cheating!), he doesn't want to pay maintenance, he doesn't want to lose his cosy little life, despite the fact that it will erode your self confidence and make you feel shitty, he doesn't give a crap about you, only him, him, him.

Get legal advice, pronto.

ENormaSnob Sun 09-Sep-12 11:13:05

You need to grab your self respect and accept this marriage is over.

You are worth more.

He is a cunt.

CouthyMowWearingOrange Sun 09-Sep-12 11:19:06

Do his parents know that he was out with the OW until 2am on your due date? I would tell them everything. If they still choose to withdraw their support from you, then they weren't very supportive in the first place. And you don't need people like that around you when you need support.

He really IS a proper bastard, OP. he cares so little for you that he was out shagging someone else when you were due to give birth. If he didn't want to responsibility of children, he should have stuck a condom on the end of it. You can only choose NOT to have responsibility for your children BEFORE you conceive them. Once they are here, it's tough shit!

He will have to pay 25% of his income to you as maintenance, for 3 DC's. He will have to have contact with them. He is going to have to fork out quite a bit to pay for somewhere he can have staying contact with 3 DC's.

He cares so little about his children that he would mess their primary Carers head up by fucking around when they are tiny.

And how the HELL is this your fault? Did you hold his dick and stick it in someone else? No? Then it's not your fault!

You are perfectly reasonable about feeling lonely while he was away with work, you can't go out and see your friends leaving 3 small DC's home alone. YOU felt lonely too - YOU didn't respond by shagging other people, did you?!

B1ueberry Sun 09-Sep-12 11:19:25

I really agree with Custard.. It may break your heart NOW to think of the children going to his/their place overnight but please please INSIST on it. NOthing will dampen the glamour of his childfree passionate affair like three children that are his responsibility. It will enable YOU to get on with your life, which you can't face now, but seriously you will want that.

CouthyMowWearingOrange Sun 09-Sep-12 11:22:33

When a man tells you what he is really like, listen to him.

He is telling you that he doesn't respect you, he doesn't care about you, or your feelings, and waggling his dick at anything that moves is more important to him than you or his children.

Listen to what he is REALLY saying.

I'm sorry your marriage is ending like this, OP.sad

B1ueberry Sun 09-Sep-12 11:25:32

ps, I agree with the poster who says, imagine somebody doing this to your daughter, or to your friend!!

He wants his freedom!!! but he managed to get you pregnant with his FOURTH child, sandwiched between two different affairs?!

Omg, what about YOUR freedom. Seriously, you need to make him take his kids as close to 50% of the time as you can manage. What an absolute dickhead he is. ALl the freedom and all the independence has to be his, you stuck at home with FOUR kids would be curtailing his freedom?!?!?! you are WELL shot of this 'man'.

BalloonSlayer Sun 09-Sep-12 11:32:14

"I just don't know how to show him that he's. Making the hugest mistake of his life."

This is really telling. Because, right now, he isn't making a mistake. OK his actions are appalling, cruel and wrong. But from his perspective, what is his mistake?

What has gone wrong for HIM because of his actions?

Lets see . . . what has he got because of what he has done? He has a wife who loves him, two children, another baby on the way, a wife to shag, an other woman to shag, a home, someone to do his housework and look after his children, a wife to tell him she is sorry that he needs to shag two women instead of one.

The only way to show him that he is making a mistake is to MAKE what he is doing into a mistake. Make it go wrong for him. Make him leave. Seek legal advice. Tell the OW she is welcome to him. Tell your families.

Tell him that he has broken your heart but you will get over it, and in time find a new man. This is absolutely true by the way.

BalloonSlayer Sun 09-Sep-12 11:33:58

Sorry three children, not two and another on the way.

NotDavidTennant Sun 09-Sep-12 11:47:55

What gets me is that he had obviously decided to separate from the OP but held back until he could get one last shag out of her before he dropped the bombshell. Utter, utter scum.

ErikNorseman Sun 09-Sep-12 12:01:14

Jesus love he has really fucked up your self esteem hasn't he? you are not responsible for him cheating on you
You are apologising to him for pushing him into fucking some other woman? Yeah fuck that. Come on! He betrayed you, he fucked another woman, told her he loves her, this is all on him.
He may end it, he may regret it and be sorry, but right now he's treating you like a mug.

You OK McB? Did you manage to start getting stuff sorted?

You will be doing absolutely the right thing to kick him out,get that legal advice asap.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 12:43:15

Am trying to get my head around this all whilst he is out with the kids (it's the first time he's had all three of them by himself).

I have spoken to his parents who basically said that his idea for separation whilst still living together is basically a formalisation of how he has lived for the past 2 years - coming back when he likes, laundry, ironing, housework, child care etc. done. They agreed he was wanting to have his cake and eat it.

After the kids have gone to bed I am planning to tell him theat yes he's right it's best to separate and divorce but that if he can't afford to move out he will have to sleep in a separate room, I will no longer do his washing and ironing, I will not clean the room he sleeps in, I will only buy groceries for me and the children and he will have to return to the house 3 nights a week to put the children to bed. At weekends we will do a day each.

Bluegingham Sun 09-Sep-12 12:51:18

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

FUCK HIM OFF.

Bluegingham Sun 09-Sep-12 12:54:57

Your husband is a charmer. Who's to say he won't turn on the charm again and before you know it you'll be ironing his shorts so he looks nice for the other woman, and slipping you the odd pity-shag.

He can't afford to move out? He might of thought of that before he betrayed you and your children. Repeatedly.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 13:04:29

You're right bluegingham he is a charmer. I am going to be very calm about it but I need to show that I'm a doormat no longer.

if you're determined to let him be in the house then he needs to be responsible for the children 3 nights a week and one day and night at the weekend. what you with the time is up to you but do make a point of going out for at least some of the time to make clear it's your time and he is responsible.

but this has surely got to have a deadline on it - it is no way for you to live long term.

Bluegingham Sun 09-Sep-12 13:10:30

Letting him stay is tacit approval of his behaviour. He has to go. You have to get out, and stay out, of this relationship.

TwinkleReturns Sun 09-Sep-12 13:10:44

You need to take the attitude that you dont give a fuck whether he can afford to move out or not - hes bound to have friends sofas he can sleep on or manage a dingy bedsit somewhere - thats not your concern. Do not allow him the tiniest inch which is what you'll be doing if you let him sleep in the spare room! He needs to GO! Get tough OP - he needs to face the consequences of his own actions.

While he's out I suggest you pack all his things for him so he can see that you mean business. Make it clear he IS going, end of discussion.

ComradeJing Sun 09-Sep-12 13:39:13

Such good advice on this thread OP.

He is not your problem any more.

I agree it will send the wrong signals if you let him stay.

Pack his bags & make him go tonight.

Tell him to go to his parents.

Make sure you have copies of documents he may take though payslips, account details etc.

can you transfer some money out of the joint account into your own account? If you don't have one go to a cashpoint.

Not saying clear it out -no more than half.

He may clear the lot once he sees you mean business, so be one step ahead & get to a solicitor asap.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 13:48:03

I'm not going to pack his stuff up while he's out as the kids would be really upset.

Unfortunately we have no close friends where we live and his parents are the other side of the country, so unless he pays to stay somewhere, he has nowhere left to go.

clam Sun 09-Sep-12 13:49:45

So, did your marriage vows say something different from mine? "Forsaking all others, unless you get a bit ground down by pregnancy and childbirth, in which case I can go and fuck other women"
hmm

clam Sun 09-Sep-12 13:52:03

"nowhere else to go?"
And that's your problem....why? He should have thought of that before he started shagging around.

MrsTomHardy Sun 09-Sep-12 13:52:23

Be strong OP...stick to your guns

Whether he has somewhere to go or not is not your problem.

Kick him out, and tell him to go live with the OW.

I bet the reason he does not want to do that, is that he cannot be sure that she will do his laundry and cook and clean for him, as it is most likely a fairly new and exciting romance. But he knows that with you, he will have clean clothes and he will be fed. He can fart and make a poo without killing the romance....

He is counting on you not wanting to upset the children...

What a bastard.

Xales Sun 09-Sep-12 14:10:38

It will very much become OP's problem if he goes else where and just decides to stop paying the mortgage/bills/food.

Until she has everything sorted legally then it is his house and she cannot just kick him out deserving or not.

Do what you need to to secure yourself and your children.

Good luck

That is true, Xales.

50shadesofgreyhair Sun 09-Sep-12 14:21:07

Time to get strong OP. And if you can't get strong, time to put on an Oscar worthy performance of a strong woman!

He has to go. There is a no-brainer. Don't worry about where he goes, not your problem. So, he refuses to leave. You tell his parents this. You tell everyone this. You stop talking to him, sleeping with him, cooking for him, cleaning for him, washing for him..you just stop. He's history.

YOU DO NOT LEAVE THAT HOME! Sorry to shout, and I understand that you want to be near your family (could someone come and stay with you for a few days - if so, great, he'll hate it, and you'll have much needed support). That house is your home and crucially your kids home. YOU DON'T LEAVE IT.

Tomorrow you phone CAB, you get the names of recommended solicitors and you get an appointment.

You stop blaming yourself and you start blaming him. This is his to deal with. You have to deal with the fallout and your kids. He has behaved like a prize dickhead, so he needs to realise this, and so far, you have enabled him to treat you like shit because you've allowed him to blame you.

You will get over this, you will get happy again. You need RL support. OW may be relevant, he might end up with her - he might realise what he has to lose and suddenly she'll lose her appeal - it doesn't matter. He's lost you, because you are way to good for him. Start believing this, and you'll be fine.

Detach from him. Get a bloody good solicitor and get your life back.

Saffy x

50shadesofgreyhair Sun 09-Sep-12 14:23:06

Xales - I had this issue when I kicked Twunt out - SHL said if he stopped paying the bills, she'd get a court order to force him to. He stopped. So she got an Order. Sorted. Absolute due any day YIPPEEEE!!

Eglantyne Sun 09-Sep-12 14:25:32

I don't normally post on this kind of thread, but just to say OP, that I wish you luck, and be strong. Do what is ultimately best for you and the children. (and that he has got somewhere to go, he has an OW).

CakeBump Sun 09-Sep-12 14:29:17

Hang on, HE'S had an affair and YOU'RE apologising????

shock

He's got you right where he wants you, it seems to me...

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 14:48:43

I'm not saying that his affairs are my fault - far from it. He had a choice and on both occasions he made the wrong choice. But generally speaking (although some men might) most men in happy marriages don't have affairs. He was unhappy in our marriage and I acknowledge the part I played in making him unhappy.

I do wonder though what sort of woman thinks a married man with 3 kids who still lives with his wife is a good relationship prospect!

CremeEggThief Sun 09-Sep-12 14:56:06

OP, I really think he needs to go, as it will be hell for you if he stays. Well done for thinking up your back up plan if he refuses to leave, but honestly, the best thing for you is if you can get him out. You won't be able to think about what you want while he's coming and going and rubbing your nose in it.

I can't believe the nerve of him. And I thought my STBBXH was bad.

McB "sort of woman thinks a married man with 3 kids who still lives with his wife is a good relationship prospect! "

Chances are he has either
a) lied through his teeth about your relationship, even "forgotten" to mention you & his family or
b) made out that your relationship is over you are just sharing a house for the DC;s sake & he's trying to pick the "right time to leave"

Of course she could just be a slapper who doesn't give a shit a long as she has a man in her bed!

All power to your elbow - hope you get the info you need tomorrow to help you get him out.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 09-Sep-12 15:16:47

But generally speaking (although some men might) most men in happy marriages don't have affairs. He was unhappy in our marriage and I acknowledge the part I played in making him unhappy.

People who choose to cheat instead of resolving marital issues the normal way (i.e talking/counselling etc) have personal issues and flaws.

I wonder how long he has been unhappy in his marriage for - I wouldn't be surprised if this began just before he started shagging around, OW catches his eye, in order to create space emotionally to justify cheating, he starts criticising you, picking silly little arguments and so on and then.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 09-Sep-12 15:18:55

And all during this distancing, you react negatively - which results in a vicious circle, serving to make him even more convinced that he is perfectly justified in choosing to have affairs.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 17:49:35

You might be on to something there hotchoc. Also interesting that the two people he turns to for relationship advice are both gay men with no responsibilities.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 09-Sep-12 18:10:48

hmm I would not be surprised that if you plot a timeline and go back to when you last were really happy and that would be before the first OW came onto the scene.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 18:17:14

Very true hotchoc. It was just after our second child arrived that he started to change. I think his whole issue is with responsibilities. I don't think he wants any. He loves 'set pieces' with the children - like swimming and park but staying in them on a rainy Sunday doing painting, role play games, play doh etc drives him barmy.

it drives everyone barmy doesn't it? no one (apologies if you're out there) naturally loves staying in on a rainy day with 3 kids but if you choose to get married and have 3 kids it's tough shit - you get through those times. or if you are utterly self indulgent and heartless enough to value your freedom and shagging OW more than your family you have the balls to walk out and leave. you don't think well i'll stay for the bits i like but still shag other women and expect to live in the house and play families when it suits me. that's so utterly taking the piss and the degree of entitlement and contempt one must have for one's partner is beyond belief.

yes young kids are hard work, yes a ton of responsibility can be breathtaking sometimes - depressing - panic attack inducing - exhausting. and? do we all go out and start shagging around with babies on the way or in the crib? no we don't. but he has.

this is nothing to do with the situation and everything to do with him.

life IS hard and how you respond to that is the measure of you. unless of course he suffers with incurable uniqueness that makes it all the harder for his special snowflake self and justifies him treating people like shit and shagging away his children's security.

sorry but he isn't that special. he's an adult human being with responsiblities like the rest of us. he's behaving like this because he's an arsehole.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 19:58:27

Swalloedafly - you are so right.

I am so glad I poured my heart out here. Thank you so much for your messages they really are helping me to get through this.

I can see now that I've basically been living the life of a single mum for 2 years. He does set pieces at the weekend, but that's it. During the working week I never know when he's going to be home. Being on my own may actually be easier as I wouldn't be looking for support from anyone and end up being resentful that it isn't given. My ironing pile will also be dramatically reduced - no more shirts to iron hurrah!

This week I've had a morning and an afternoon on my own - absolutely child free. It's the most free time I've had in3 years and I loved it! I went out to a restaurant and sat outside In the sunshine drinking Pinot Grigio. It was brilliant!

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 19:59:55

Maybe it' s the wine that's making me feel much better...

i'm so glad you got a bit of time to yourself. it can make such a difference just to get out hands free and walk through a town and it be just you. can't put it in words but i'm sure we've all felt it.

i do hope it was him looking after the three children and getting a taste of reality.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 20:08:49

It was brilliant, so peaceful and lovely to have no responsibilities for a few hours i now understand why he goes out so often.

you're right you know - realistically in some ways your life will be easier without him. certainly the atmosphere and tone of home will be entirely up to you and you will actually get some proper time off. of course there's a lot of practical stuff to face and deal with but in some ways it will be better - it might be harder in some ways but some things WILL be better. worth remembering that.

i'm a single mother but i only have one child, two dogs and a cat so can't comment on doing it with three children. from the outside looking in though i can't see any way he is making your life better and i can think of tons of ways he is making it a misery and adding to the work and stress you face.

winniemum Sun 09-Sep-12 20:18:47

You are sounding more positive already McBuckers. I've spent the last 20 years of my life apologising and trying to please my DH. Only recently, thanks to MN I've realised he has no respect for me when I'm like that.
So I've now started saying things like 'no. I don't want to' looking him up and down like he's crazy when he criticizes me etc
He's actually started to be really nice to me now, as he knows I'm not standing for the treatment he dishes out to me. Just saying I think he has more respect for me. So until you get your DH to move out, try treating him with the contempt he deserves.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 20:27:23

Actually just replaying things in my mind I think he has always resented me because we had kids before he was ready. I was 32 when we got married and was worried that I was getting older, and it took both of our parents 18mths to conceive. We conceived in 6 weeks. We had kids much earlier than he wanted and I think he's always resented having the responsibility.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 09-Sep-12 20:31:17

Yes but he still agreed to to conceive DC no 2 and no 3....

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 20:43:19

Actually to be fair to him he didn't want number three. She was a complete accident and he wanted a termination, only in the end I couldn't go through with it.

and is he volunteering to have a vasectomy given he's so convinced he didn't want number three let alone more?

50shadesofgreyhair Sun 09-Sep-12 20:52:10

McB, I really think you'll be fine. I had four kids and they were all teenagers (still are!) when Twunt left to 'find the happiness he deserved'. I was fine, it was a relief - it was like having four kids instead of five. He did little around the house, been that way for years. When the kids were small he worked long hours and always managed to have 'me time' - i.e. drinks with younger unmarried colleagues after work - he never rushed home to help with the kids. I got resentful - I envied him his freedom, and would sometimes go days without other adult company, yet he always managed to do the fun scheduled play stuff (as long as it fitted in with him). They find it hard to cope with kids, these sort of men, it's like they think they should still be number one priority, even if you have a sick baby to nurse. Looking back I think twunt was jealous of his own kids, I really do. God I'm well shot, and you will be too.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 20:52:42

Funnily enough he refused to have a vasectomy...

50shadesofgreyhair Sun 09-Sep-12 20:53:17

I'll do it for him SwallowedAFly!

funny that.

can't pull the younger second wife if you don't have any swimmers.

incidentally he agreed to conceive your first child too - you both made the decision to try you can hardly then be blamed for the fact that your eggs and sperm met successfully early on in trying ffs.

take a good look at him.

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 20:59:43

50shades - bingo, they could be related! It sounds exactly the same, my DH always managed to go out a couple of times a week after work. Sometimes I didn't even know if/when he'd be home and sometimes he'd come home so late and so pissed he couldn't help out with the kids when they woke up in the morning

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 21:01:51

Maybe it's the wine talking but am starting to think bye bye twunt

Give some of that wine lol

You will find you have to stop yourself from sniggering when you think 'cocklodger' and 'twunt' and other mumsnetty words when looking at him.. 'tis ace grin

MerryCosIWonaGold Sun 09-Sep-12 21:17:25

I'm not usually one of those that cries, "Leave the bastard." But, I can't believe he's done this TWICE and you're still finding reasons why it's your fault. It's not your fault. It is NEVER your fault. If he was really unhappy, he could have left, he could said you were pushing him away. Whatever. You have not pushed him into anyone's arms. Please, please OP, don't take this on yourself. He will keep doing this if he knows he can get away with it, and each time it will take even more of your self esteem. This will be worse for the kids. A Mum who hates herself.

MerryCosIWonaGold Sun 09-Sep-12 21:19:04

Sorry OP. I see the thread has been updated. Good on ya!

bogeyface Sun 09-Sep-12 21:26:55

Its not the wine, its YOU. You are seeing him exactly as he is, not how he wants you to see him or as the man you wish he was.

Stay strong.
xx

WhereMyMilk Sun 09-Sep-12 21:37:02

Good for you McB!

McBuckers Sun 09-Sep-12 21:43:52

Will wait until tomorrow to tell him my terms for the separation. I'm in a good and I don't want to spoil it.,

CremeEggThief Sun 09-Sep-12 21:44:09

Go, McB smile.

50Shades, I had the "happiness I deserve" speech too! Along with, "I didn't want a second child, as I thought there would be even less love for me... DS took away most of your love for me"!!!

bogeyface Sun 09-Sep-12 21:45:15

And when you do, watch his face fall a million miles when he realises that actually you are not a doormat and he isnt getting this all his own way!

Markingthehours Sun 09-Sep-12 21:46:57

Can I suggest McB that you say NOTHING to him (unnerving or what eh? grin ) until you have seen a solicitor.

There is nothing so forceful as knowing where you stand and knowing that what you say is backed up by law.

runningforme Sun 09-Sep-12 23:34:19

My sister's husband started cheating on her when she'd not long had their first dc and was pregnant with their second. He told her it was in her head, even when she found clues etc. It went on for over a year with them splitting up and getting back together over and over because he'd convinced her he wasnt cheating. It all came to a head when my sis found out ow was weeks away from giving birth. My sis left her husband, got her own place and moved on. She's shown him she can live without him. And do it well. He's been begging her to take him back ever since.

Don't be a doormat. Keep your dignity - you are stronger than you think. And if he can't love you and treat you right, then move him out the picture so he's not blocking the way for the man who will

Good luck x

hope you're feeling ok this morning OP. this is your life and you're in the driving seat. nothing is set in stone. everything can be changed even when it feels like it's cemented into place by the momentum of your life so far. we're only young! we've got plenty more mistakes and recoveries in us yet x

McBuckers Mon 10-Sep-12 09:32:26

I'm actually feeling strangely positive about everything this morning. I realise now that I've been stuck in a rut ever since we had kids and always felt defined by my role as a mother I think this has given me the kick up the arse I needed to go out there and start living my life!

Yaaay fighting talk McB good for you!!

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea Mon 10-Sep-12 11:16:48

Good for you and good luck smile

olgaga Mon 10-Sep-12 11:28:21

You might find this information useful McBuckers:

Relationship Breakdown and Divorce – Advice and Links

General

Try to get familiar with the language of family law and procedure and get an understanding of your rights BEFORE you see a solicitor.

If there are children involved, their interests will always come first. It is the children’s right to maintain a meaningful relationship with the non-resident parent (NRP) – not the other way around. Parents have no rights, only responsibilities. Shared residence means both parties having an equal interest in the upbringing of the children. It doesn’t mean equal (50/50) parenting/contact time - children are not possessions to be “fairly” divided between separating parents.

A divorce will not be granted where children are involved unless there are agreed arrangements for finance, and care of the children (“Statement of Arrangements for Children”). It is obviously quicker and cheaper if this can be agreed but if there is no agreement, the Court will make an Order (“Residence and Contact” regarding children, “Financial Order” or “Ancillary Relief” in the case of Finance),

Always see a specialist family lawyer!

Get word of mouth recommendations for family lawyers in your area if possible. If you have children at school, ask mums you are friendly with if they know of anyone who can make a recommendation in your area. These days there are few people who don’t know of anyone who has been through a divorce or separation – there’s a lot of knowledge and support out there!

Many family lawyers will offer the first half hour consultation free. Make use of this. Don’t just stick with the first lawyer you find – shop around and find someone you feel comfortable with. You may be in for a long haul, so it helps if you can find a solicitor you’re happy with.

If you can’t find any local recommendations, always see a solicitor who specialises in Family Law. You can search by area here:

www.resolution.org.uk/

Some family law solicitors publish online feedback from clients – Google solicitors to see if you can find any recommendations or feedback.

Mediation

You will be encouraged to attend mediation. If there has been violence or emotional abuse, discuss this with your solicitor first. Always get legal advice, or at the very least make sure you are aware of your legal rights, before you begin mediation. A Mediator can help you to have a structured discussion in a neutral setting and help you reach agreement. They should have knowledge of family law but are not there to give legal advice.

Married or Living Together?

This is a key question, because if you are married, generally speaking you have greater protection when a relationship breaks down.

Legal Issues around marriage/cohabitation and relationship breakdown are explained here:

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/relationships_e/relationships_living_together_marriage_and_civil_partnership_e/living_together_and_marriage_legal_differences.htm#Ending_a_relationship

www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/

DirectGov advice on divorce, separation and relationship breakdown:

www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Divorceseparationandrelationshipbreakdown/index.htm

Legal Rights are further explained here:

www.rightsofwomen.org.uk/legal.php#children_relationship_breakdown

I found these guides from law firms quite informative and easy to read – there are others of course:

www.family-lawfirm.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Surviving-Family-Conflict-and-Divorce---2nd-edition.pdf

www.terry.co.uk/hindex.html

Finance

Before you see a family law solicitor, get hold of every single piece of financial information you have access to, and take copies or make notes. Wage slips, P60s, tax returns, employment contracts, pensions and other statements – savings, current account and mortgages, deeds, rental leases, utility bills, council tax bills, credit statements. Are there joint assets such as a home, pensions, savings, shares?

If you are married, the main considerations of the Family Courts where parties are unable to agree a settlement are (in no particular order of priority):

1.The welfare of any minor children from the marriage.
2.The value of jointly and individually owned property and other assets and the financial needs, obligation and responsibilities of each party.
3.Any debts or liabilities of the parties.
4.Pension arrangements for each of the parties, including future pension values and any value to each of the parties of any benefit they may lose as a result of the divorce.
5.The earnings and earning potential of each of the parties.
6.Standard of living enjoyed during the marriage.
7.The age of the parties and duration of the marriage.
8.Any physical or mental disability of either of the parties.
9.Contributions that each party may have made to the marriage, either financially or by looking after the house and/or caring for the family.

CSA maintenance calculator:

www.csacalculator.dsdni.gov.uk/calc.asp

Handy tax credits calculator:

taxcredits.hmrc.gov.uk/Qualify/DIQHousehold.aspx

Handy 5 Minute benefit check, tax and housing benefit calculators:

www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/

Parenting issues:

theparentconnection.org.uk/

Support for women

www.maypole.org.uk/
www.womensaid.org.uk/
www.gingerbread.org.uk/

Housing

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships

(Bear in mind that if you are not in England there is usually an appropriate link on these websites. There are significant differences in Scottish law and housing provision).

olgaga Mon 10-Sep-12 11:29:30

The shelter link at the end didn't work - it's:

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/families_and_relationships

McBuckers Mon 10-Sep-12 12:42:37

Wow - thanks Olgaga. That is so useful, thank you. Now where do I start!

olgaga Mon 10-Sep-12 13:16:04

I'd recommend the Directgov and Adviceguide links first! Good luck.

AnyFucker Mon 10-Sep-12 13:41:42

I love it when you put up those links, olgaga

Good luck op, I have a feeling your life is going to improve immeasurably npw

really useful olgaga smile

glad to hear you feeling positive OP.

olgaga Mon 10-Sep-12 15:34:14

Many thanks! smile I've had some lovely PMs about it too.

You may have noticed that I've now amended it slightly, including the main issues family courts consider. I can't always get on here every day so do spread the word if I miss an opportunity!

charlearose Mon 10-Sep-12 17:36:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

skyebluesapphire Mon 10-Sep-12 22:10:38

You have had some great advice on here. I did the same as you and blamed myself for everything and begged him to come back and said I would be whatever he wanted me to be...... against all advice on here, lol.

My STBXH blamed me for everything and would not accept any of the blame himself.

You seem to be stronger than when you first posted. Stay that way.

McBuckers Mon 10-Sep-12 22:44:23

Am feeling down again now. I really wish he would move out. It's much too hard him still being here.

McBuckers Mon 10-Sep-12 22:45:05

God I wish I could turn the click back

Inertia Mon 10-Sep-12 22:52:48

Even if you could turn the clock back, you wouldn't be able to change what he did. He made those choices, and he'd have made the same choices regardless of how perfect a wife you'd been.

CremeEggThief Mon 10-Sep-12 22:55:22

McB, you are going to be up and down for a long time. You're probably still in shock. I thought I was okay, but now, I can hardly remember those first three weeks or so.

All I can advise you to do is take it one day at a time and store up the times you feel good, as they will be an anchor for you when you're feeling down.

thanks

Inertia Mon 10-Sep-12 22:56:43

You need to speak to a solicitor. In fact you need to speak to several solicitors, because if he speaks to them first then nobody in that practice can deal with you.

Am gobsmacked that he expected you to carry on as his unpaid skivvy and childcare while he got to stay in the family house and go to OW when he felt like it!

Inertia Mon 10-Sep-12 22:59:42

Is there anyone who can be in the house with you over the next few days McB? Your parents, or his parents, or friends? If somebody could help you out with childcare while you sort out what you need to do, that would have the added bonus of giving you some moral support. H will be less likely to make you feel uncomfortable if you have company.

Take care McB.

McBuckers Mon 10-Sep-12 22:59:51

I'm so cross with myself, this morning I thought I could handle the living together but separated thing but actually I can't. I just want him to go now. It's too much to bear.

Inertia Mon 10-Sep-12 23:08:33

Don't be cross with yourself lovely, you've done nothing wrong. Be cross with him.

As his parents seem sympathetic, would it be worth asking them to talk to him about moving out? It sounds like he's staying out of stubbornness - no wonder you feel shattered by it.

AnyFucker Mon 10-Sep-12 23:08:55

Tell him if he has any regard for you as the mother of his DC, he will go

McBuckers Mon 10-Sep-12 23:23:28

I just have - he ain't listening.

AnyFucker Mon 10-Sep-12 23:27:18

What a complete bastardy

Then I recommend you star divorce proceedings tomorrow...that should concentrate his mind, and divert some blood supply away from his groin

AnyFucker Mon 10-Sep-12 23:27:51

Sorry for typos

McBuckers Mon 10-Sep-12 23:28:46

How can he not want me anymore but still hang around. Why would he do that?

AnyFucker Mon 10-Sep-12 23:30:49

He wants what he tried to get in the beginning....you to continue to.provide domestic services and STFU

McBuckers Mon 10-Sep-12 23:33:07

It's all such a mess. I honestly don't know whether i want to f0ck him or smash his face in

AnyFucker Mon 10-Sep-12 23:39:30

Please don't do anything to demean yourself. Your dignity is very precious to you right now

The reason you feel so conflicted is because he is still there. He hasn't even got the common decency to give you some space to sort out your head after such a Bombshell

He's hanging around waiting for you to change your mind and go back to the way things were until he can start pulling his shit again in a few months time.
Dress up tomorrow and go out for the day (even if its just to the solicitors) as i saw someone comment either on this thread or another, 'show him you're still beautiful and fuckable' or words to that effect and most importantly that it isn't going to be him doing it.
Best to go out looking good on a nice sunny day you will get looks that will make you feel on top of the world, have your hair done if you can.
He will be wondering WTF and you can basically rub his nose in it, you deserve it as he's piled the shit on you.
Enjoy watching him as he realises you're quite possibly off on a new path without him and a lot happier smile
You're so brave all that you've been through already keep it up xx

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Mon 10-Sep-12 23:50:28

"I think the fact that he was out with the OW til 2am on the day I was due to give birth to our third child says how much family means to him."

Oh. My God.

You have to divorce him. You can't live with someone like that.

Unfortunately you cannot make him leave the house, but you can see a solicitor.

AnyFucker Mon 10-Sep-12 23:51:50

Start the divorce

Beckamaw Mon 10-Sep-12 23:51:52

What a cock!
I had one like that. Never came home until kids were in bed. Sleeping with OW while I was pregnant with second child.
It is super hard. We did a legal separation. I took 50% equity and bought a new place.
It was a great new start after the crap.

I also met a damned gorgeous man who loves doing family stuff. We now have a baby. This is what life is all about!

If you're going through crap, KEEP GOING!!

Bluegingham Mon 10-Sep-12 23:52:26

You want a happy life for you and your kids? Well eradicating this oxygen thief from your life gets you a huge step closer.

cakehappy Tue 11-Sep-12 02:12:06

OP, I have spent alot of time in the last year on MN, and have seen alot of crap from men but your husband really takes the cake, and you seem to have thought his horrible behaviour was justifiable, which makes me wonder where you are emotionally. I'm sure he hasn't been there for you or for the kids in the way he should have been or you would have realised that this behaviour is completely and totally bonkers and horrific, that is the Gods honest truth! From an outsider, its NOT good at all. You are at a crossroads in your life, you can faff around, accept him back, you guys can "fall back in love" be happy again blah,blah,blah ,because as soon as he starts seeing you getting tough and actually looking like you might be willing and able to make it on your own he is gonna be Mr. Bloody Niceguy and try all of the tricks of the trade to make you stay/allow him to stay. To reign you back in to slowly reassert control over you, so that he can start to live as he obviously wants to, with you and the children at home, and an OW to screw. And before you know it, its all going to be as it used to be. But you will never be able to forget the image of him fucking another woman, or smother the seeds of doubt in your mind over what kind of man he really is, and in a month, or a year you will be going through it all over again. An absent husband,wondering where he is and who he is with. But feeling even worse about yourself, and a lower self esteem and a broken heart and an unhappy family. Spare yourself the pain,maintain dignity, give yourself a chance and see what he has really done, and get out of the marriage. This is not a good place for you to be. Trust me and trust the people on here who have been through it and know what its like to be in a better place. Time to wake up and see what is really going on around yo,IMO. Good luck, you sound lovely.

OP just a thought worth bearing in mind - he too may have had advice and know his best bet is not to leave the family home. it may not be stubborness or wanting things back to normal, it might be about pushing you to leaving and him having the house or just that he's read somewhere whatever you do don't move out.

i really think a solicitor is necessary but i'd first exhaust all avenues of other pressure you can bring - re: cry on the phone to his parents telling them how unbearable it is to have him there and how it would be much better for the children for him to go rather than confuse issues and let them put pressure on him. tell all your friends. have friends and family of yours there A LOT. make it uncomfortable for him and make it very public that he has announced his second affair and that he doesn't want you yet refuses to leave the house. don't keep secrets for him - let it be very well known.

leave the kids with him A LOT in the evenings. just walk out the door as he walks in. get up and dressed on a saturday morning and announce you have plans and you'll be back at 5 and leave. make being at home hard work - you're certainly not doing anything other than making him be a responsible resident parent doing his share so don't feel bad about it.

i think you have to be aware that he may be strategising and not be naively assuming he's just being stubborn or weird or whatever other emotion you project onto him - he may know exactly what he's doing.

AnyFucker Tue 11-Sep-12 09:35:44

Good Point, saf

Rowanhart Tue 11-Sep-12 10:27:04

Swallowed a fly those are great tips!

olgaga Tue 11-Sep-12 11:04:06

Some great advice on here - except the stuff about "don't leave your home".

McBuckers you have said you would like to return to your home town where you have support and help with the kids. That's a perfectly sound reason to make the move. You are not leaving the country or even going to the other end of the country - it is within easy driving distance.

I'm sure the advice here about not leaving the home is well intentioned but you will not lose any claim on this joint asset if you leave.

I have found another website which I will add to my lengthy post above - don't understand how it got left off. Divorceaid is signposted by CAFCASS, Family Justice Council, Relate, DirectGov, H.M Courts, Samaritans, Resolution, ChildLine, Mind, NHS and numerous other organisations. This is what they say about leaving the family home:

"Does my claim to the property alter if I have to leave it?
If the atmosphere at home has become unbearable or there is domestic violence and one of you chooses to leave, that person does not lose any entitlement to a claim in the property. If you are leaving, it could be prudent to collect your personal documents as it could become difficult to obtain them at a later date if circumstances and emotions change. Again, this could be discussed with your solicitor or the police in an emergency as the law could possibly provide various ways of protecting you and any children."

www.divorceaid.co.uk/financial/family-home.htm

Is there a friend or a member of the family who could come and stay with you while you pack and organise your move? This will give you some protection, and hopefully neutralise the atmosphere in the house. It would be good for the children too if they can have their GM or similar to stay. If you are going to move you might as well find a family lawyer in your home town and do it from there. It's a big step, but I think it's the best solution for you.

However hard it is McBuckers you have to shift your focus away from him. His only role in your life now is as the father of your kids and the respondent in your divorce. You can do this, be strong.

depends if you want to live in it i guess olgaga - if you're only after your share in the sale value that's fine but for many that wouldn't amount to anything realistic to put to a new home. if you move out with the kids it ceases to be the family home and is just an asset i guess. if it's the family home then it's reasonable for the children and caregiver to remain in it till the children leave home.

no expert obviously but if the OP wants it to continue as the family home then i'd have thought she needs to live in it AS the family home to maximise her chances of it continuing as such.

CremeEggThief Tue 11-Sep-12 13:52:22

How are you today, McB? There is SO much to take in. Your head must be all over the place.

McBuckers Tue 11-Sep-12 15:51:07

I'm still up and down. Have joined a gym today, booked a hair appointment and a girls night out. Husband has been very accommodating in looking after the kids. DD1 seems very low - clingy and tearful - and I'm starting to wonder whether she's starting to pick up on things. I feel so bad for her - it's not the future she deserves.

CremeEggThief Tue 11-Sep-12 16:00:16

It's good to have some things lined up. Good for you!

as a child of a man who had serial affairs i can tell you ime it is better he goes now and she is raised by separated parents than goes through this over and over again.

Good to know you are getting some plans for you in place.

Have you managed to book a solicitor appt?

McBuckers Tue 11-Sep-12 20:28:17

Not yet. Want to hear his thoughts on being separated but still living together!

AnyFucker Tue 11-Sep-12 22:51:30

He will jump at it. Imagine it for him ! You put a wash on 'cos you are doing it anyway. He gets communal areas cleaned. He joins with your meals 'cos he's around....

And gets to dip his wick where likes

Unless you are thinking what is good for the goose ? ...

Be interesting to see his take on it as opposed to AF's ! grin

AnyFucker Tue 11-Sep-12 22:58:34

It's a twat's dream innit

Domestic services from wifey who doesn't ask questions

Carte Blanche to chase as much skirt as he likes

brilliant !

I hope you're going to ask him that because you've already got his replacement lined up and he will hear you two at it like rabbits finally forcing him to move out for his own sanity lol

Markingthehours Wed 12-Sep-12 00:14:33

Get to a solicitor asap McB. All you would be doing is getting proper info pertinent to your circumstances. It doesn't mean you have to start separation or divorce. It just means you'll know where you stand in practical terms.

Information is power. YOu need that power to help back you up when you are being attacked, to help you protect your children.

Stop getting bogged down with emotions and get some facts. These are hard times.

<but also look after yourself>

Charbon Wed 12-Sep-12 00:44:01

Well I'm glad you've started to assert yourself a bit more since I was last on your thread OP but living together but separated won't work and it's generally horrible for children, as well as the couple.

Find a way to live separately, however you achieve it.

And start divorce proceedings.

GeekLove Wed 12-Sep-12 20:48:18

If you are going to tough this out in the short term get yourself some crates to put stuff like his laundry, dirty plates etc and ONLY do yours and DCs housework. If he leaves stuff out, sweep it into the crate. Assuming you have a garden leave it outside. Make it clear he is not part of your household.
Here's hoping he will leave soon or you get an occupancy order.

MoRaw Wed 12-Sep-12 20:57:33

I know it is tough and your emotions are raw. I understand how desperate you are to hang on to your marriage. However, whilst your emotions are likely to be stronger than your head at the moment, please, please remember that this is not your fault. I felt so sad reading that he has somehow managed to make you feel that this is your fault.

Furthermore, this man has cheated twice (well twice that you know of). He is a cheat and will probably do it again especially as he has managed to turn this around and make himself look like the victim.

It is easy for me to sit here and tell you to kick him out. I know it won't be easy for you to reach to that point but here's hoping that you do get very indignant about this and show him the door.

Best of luck and I will be thinking about you and praying that it works out well for you whatever you choose to do.

how are you doing OP?

thinking of you.

McBuckers Thu 13-Sep-12 12:50:52

I'm up and down and all over the place at the moment. We were supposed to discuss the separation last night. He came home and we talked like normal about the news, his job, music etc. Then eventually I said that we needed to discuss the separation. He then started getting really upset saying that he didn't know what he wanted, he still loves me but isn't in love with me and that he has strong feelings for someone else (he's been seeing her "sexually" for 3 weeks). I said he should get away from it all to consider what he wants and to not make a knee jerk decision.

I went to bed and when he came up we had sex every which way. Then he got all conflicted again.

So I texted the other woman from him on his phone saying that we'd slept together and calling off their relationship (not very dignified). A couple of hours later she phones and they have a right old barry. He then says that he's cooled it off with her and he needs space because he's so messed up. I honestly think he's on the verge of a breakdown.

He then complimented me on how I looked and asked for a cuddle. When the kids came in the room he asked for another cuddle and we held each other for ages.

Then he went to work - the OW works with him.

Rowanhart Thu 13-Sep-12 12:59:10

He really gets to hold all the cards with you, doesn't he?

Sorry you are going through this but shocked that you would allow him to degrade you like this.

sad that's horrible to read. he has such power over you.

i'm currently being harassed by a married man. he got hold of my number and keeps texting really inappropriate stuff despite the fact all i ever respond is that he is married and to stop texting me, leave me alone etc. last night i was so sick of it i texted to him that he is a married man and his behaviour makes me sick and i could never, ever be with someone who behaved like that. to which i got a load of bull about how he just cohabits with his wife and they've had separate rooms for 7 years and he'd never behave like that either etc.

i actually had a bit of a crush on this guy (not that i showed it or would have ever done anything about it) but he is utterly repulsive to me now having seen this behaviour and how utterly selfish and immoral he is.

i do not understand how anyone can actually 'want' someone like this. must admit i struggle to see how you could want to have sex with him knowing he probably fucked her earlier that day.

he's had 2 affairs. he doesn't just accidentally get into them - he obviously seeks women out, charms them, tells them a load of bullshit about you and lies endlessly to you and them.

he is capable of doing all that - it's WHO HE IS. a decent human being would not be able to do it to you or them or himself.

McBuckers Thu 13-Sep-12 13:36:07

I'm so confused. More than anything else I want to make go of our marriage. I can't bear the thought of our children growing up without daddy at home.

Our eldest daughter is a very sensitive child and I really worry what the effect of a break up would be on her.

She's had a melt down every morning this week at school apart from today. Today she was very clingy and then sat by herself looking so sad in the playground. Even a couplof the other mums asked me whether she was okay. It breaks my heart to see her like this. She was in the same room as her dad when he and the OW had their argument on the phone this morning. I have no idea what she heard or what sense she made of it.

and you think that's better for her than having separated parents? believe me they understand plenty and they are sponges learning all the time.

the earliest one i remember was when i couldn't have been more than 5 or 6 - i remember the atmosphere, the rows, knowing what was happening, knowing my dad was betraying us and didn't care about us and being terrified of how out of control the grown ups were being. even at that age i can remember wishing and wishing my mum would get off of the floor and grow a back bone and be a strong person and move forward rather than the emotional fucking hell we were being put through to try and 'keep' this man.

sorry if this is hard to hear or too biased but those are my memories.

Charbon Thu 13-Sep-12 14:32:32

It's your husband's fault that your daughter is so distressed, no-one else's.

Quite apart from everything else he's done, arguing with the OW in front of your child is unforgiveable, especially as she was already picking up on the chaos at home and was suffering.

All you're doing now is competing with another woman for a very flawed man's temporary affections. You're also trying to control his fidelity by warning off the OW.

What if you 'win' this time?

Is that such a great victory, for you and your children? Staying with a man who is repeatedly unfaithful, who says he isn't in love with you? Providing a terrible and chaotic role model of a relationship to your children?

Think very carefully about how much of this is really about your perceived need to give the children a secure home - and how much this is about your own fear of being independent from him and parenting separately. If there's any chance that you're putting your own needs before your children's right to a happier home and a good model of a relationship - start putting them first.

Your husband won't do that, because he's too selfish. So you're the only parent who can - and should.

please talk to her and translate for her and let her express her feelings and what it is she knows and has heard. don't make her pretend. it is really horrible having to pretend for the grown ups and knowing you're not allowed to talk about what you've seen and heard and it's yours to bear on you own. it is very, very lonely and really sets you apart from everyone - your parents, your peers, everyone.

So he was bastard enough to argue on the phone with her in front of his child

Wanker angry
What a selfish prick. I know you want to give DC's a secure home, everyone does. But you are fighting a losing battle with this one.

Sling him, if they're arguing already, then that relationship is gonna disintegrate too last a long time hmm

Oh babe sad and your poor DD sad you have my sympathy x

And as the OW is obviously a fucking whore i would get STD checked

Bluegingham Thu 13-Sep-12 15:22:22

OP what's the deal-breaker for you in this marriage? A 3-some with the other woman? What does your husband have to do that would make you split with him forever?

Rowanhart Thu 13-Sep-12 15:42:58

Your job is to give your children a stable home indeed. And having this man in their home doesnt enable that.

Seriously. Enough is enough.

CremeEggThief Thu 13-Sep-12 15:54:12

McB, I'm hoping against hope that last night was a moment of weakness for you.
While he is there, you can't work out what you really want. This man is not worthy of being with you or your children, full-time.

Please find a way of getting some distance between you, so you can work out what you want. Otherwise, you won't have any self-respect or self-esteem left, and it's going to make everything even worse for you.

Alurkatsoftplay Thu 13-Sep-12 15:58:35

So sorry to read this - and you with such a tiny baby too sad

Please listen to charbon. Why are you competing with this woman for your husband. He is screwing you both over. Allowing this won't make him love you. Really, it won't work.

It is terrible i feel so sad for you OP you haven't been off my mind today

sad

skyebluesapphire Thu 13-Sep-12 17:32:19

My H made love to me four times the night before he walked out. It was just sex to him, but to me it gave me the impression that he lived me and wanted to be with me.

You need distance from him while you both work out what you want. At the moment he is getting everything on a plate....

AnyFucker Thu 13-Sep-12 17:37:26

McB, I found your update very distressing

what is so good about this man, that you would demean yourself like that? He's just a man, and a cruel and faithless one at that

if you think shagging him while he is still shagging OW and acting like a complete doormat will bring him back to you, you are very sadly deluded

all your current behaviour is doing is reducing you further in his eyes

his contempt for you must be total

I am so sorry to be so harsh, but you need someone to say this to you

the thought of you trying to compete with another woman (women) sexually makes me very sad indeed

you effectively have an open marriage now, except he is the one that gets to shag around while you beg, plead and try to act like a wanton sextoy to keep your man

what on earth would you say to a friend who was doing this ?

and why would any woman lower herself so distressingly ??

Rowanhart Thu 13-Sep-12 17:42:13

Hear hear Any Fucker....

SmellsLikeTeenStrop Thu 13-Sep-12 17:48:48

Do you think maybe he shagged you to keep you sweet so you don't follow through on your ultimatum that from now on he'll have to do his own cooking and cleaning etc?

AnyFucker Thu 13-Sep-12 17:52:48

My heart is pounding to have typed that, so it will hurt very badly to read it

but fgs love, you need to wake up before you have no self respect left

no man is worth this no man

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 13-Sep-12 17:57:21

Eww sloppy seconds sad

And what about STDs?

You and the DC are worth so much more than this sad

SuffolkNWhat Thu 13-Sep-12 19:04:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Markingthehours Thu 13-Sep-12 19:28:30

Arguing in front of DD with OW?

Despicable.

Please understand McB you can give your DC a stable happy home on your own. You can do it.

You will do well enough you know on your own. I know it's scary and sad - but that very soon wears off. And when you start to do stuff yourself, make your own decisions, decide when you have fun, take a day off with DC, have a duvet day - whatever little thing you feel like, when you feel like - that's the best feeling. And you get peace of mind.

Now is the time to ask your DH again to leave for ever a week or two, so that you he can get some time to think and clear his thoughts. then you change the locks

Look after yourself McB - you deserve so much better than this.

ErikNorseman Thu 13-Sep-12 19:52:28

The needing to fuck him is called hysterical bonding. It's a type of territory marking and it feels important at the time, but it means nothing. It just feeds his ego and his delusion of being so amazing that two women are desperate to have him despite what he did to them both.

Texting the ow also achieved nothing. I'm sorry to say but it just continues to feed his ego.

AnyFucker Thu 13-Sep-12 20:39:50

The way I understand hysterical bonding is when two people who have decided to give their relationship another go (ie. are on the same page) have a lot of sex to validate their decision

this isn't hysterical bonding, this is sacrificing yourself on the altar of a cruel man who gives not a shit about you

AnyFucker Thu 13-Sep-12 20:40:42

in other words naked desperation

it's not attractive, and it really will not work

Proudnscary Thu 13-Sep-12 20:46:41

Oh Mrs McB, I feel so bloody sad for you. And angry your h has done this to you and is treating you so badly.

It's a shame you feel unable to talk to a close friend or family member in RL...maybe that would be just the right thing to do to make it real and of course to get some support.

I'm not going to echo the harsh but horribly true words others have said above but I do hope you draw strength from these posts and take in what's being said to you - and understand that the advice comes only from concern and kindness.

Many of these women are going through what you are and all are saying that your h needs to go.

skyebluesapphire Thu 13-Sep-12 21:07:01

yes - hysterical bonding - after my STBXH first walked out and then came back, we made love every night for about 10 nights in a row...... and then several times a week after that. I thought it was because he really did love me. he said it was because he was trying hard to make it work.......

then he left again 6 weeks later. after making love to me 4 times the night before.

AF's words are harsh but true. You would be wise to listen to them

Alurkatsoftplay Thu 13-Sep-12 21:50:17

Just re- read the op and saw that this is his 2nd affair in a year.

I'm sorry but what does this say about his regard for your marriage?

Really, you have to stop fighting for your marriage. He isn't.

BalloonSlayer Fri 14-Sep-12 08:12:07

I have deleted two posts before pressing post because I was worried about what I was going to say. But Anyfucker has said similar (only better!)

McB you were doing great, you started showing strength to him, saying "we needed to discuss the separation."

He then "started getting really upset saying that he didn't know what he wanted, he still loves me but isn't in love with me" - that's him panicking, seeing you start to take control. trying to give you a bit of hope to cling on to, so that he gets to keep you and shag the OW.

Then you went one better, pressed your advantage and "said he should get away from it all to consider what he wants" - fab fab FAB! You had him on the ropes there!

Then you threw away all your advantage by shagging him. Now you are 'fighting the OW for him,' and "he got all conflicted again" because he had got what he wanted and does not think he has to try very hard to keep you sweet any more. He has you exactly where he wants you.

Or so he thinks.

Never mind. It's not too late. This doesn't have to continue. You can still take control again.

((( Unmumsnetty hug )))

McBuckers Fri 14-Sep-12 08:15:41

I have seen the light - this isn't a marriage it's a hotel service.

I've now suggested that he moves in with her during the week and comes back at weekends for the children.

Personally I'd prefer it if he moved in with OW permanently but he's still refusing. I still think he's having some sort of breakdown. His mood changes by the hour. Yesterday he said he was a mess and needed to get away then having spent all day at work with the other woman he says he's clear about what he wants. His perception of normality seems to have gone out of the window.

Right let's start going through Olgaga's links...

Single motherhood here I come!!!

CremeEggThief Fri 14-Sep-12 08:23:09

McB, it won't be easy, but it will be a dam sight easier than what you are going through right now. You deserve so much better.

thanks

fiventhree Fri 14-Sep-12 08:42:28

THats a great improvement, McB. A good decision for you

Can I make a suggestion, though? Later in the week, why not just say you would prefer he visited the children at the weekends, not moved back in for the weekend?

There are two reasons for this. One, it is less confusing for you and the children.

Two, it takes decisions out of his hands and back into yours. You are the one choosing, not just giving him monday-friday holiday from domestic life.

Personally, I think he isnt worth keeping at all as things stand, but if you really wanted to, I would suggest kicking him out full time and getting him to see the kids outside the house- ie make it really uncomfortable for him, and then when he fucks it all up and wants to come back- he will, he will- then telling him he cant unless he gets independent counselling to face his issues.At least that way, you have a small chance of getting a relationship with a responsible adult.

I am fearful that the half way house thing of him being away during the week will actually suit him very well, as he has both of you and only part time childcare/domestics, in effect.

There is a book called His Needs, her Needs by Willard Harley which has one very useful chapter for you on this sort of thing- he says if the man refuses to give up the affair partner, boot him right out, refuse to discuss anything with him, and tell his family and friends all. Because this puts the maximum pressure on him and the love nest and charming life he has created with the OW is rapidly transformed into his very own private hell.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 14-Sep-12 08:44:05

Why does he have to stay in your home at the weekends? He will still be having his cake and eating it - he gets to shag OW all week and be a disney dad at weekends. He made the choice to check out of his marriage - he has to live with the consequences.

Bluegingham Fri 14-Sep-12 08:57:50

"if the man refuses to give up the affair partner, boot him right out, refuse to discuss anything with him, and tell his family and friends all. Because this puts the maximum pressure on him and the love nest and charming life he has created with the OW is rapidly transformed into his very own private hell."

This, exactly.

C'mon OP. him being there at the weekend will be death by a thousand cuts. Will he still be calling the OW from your home? Bringing a few bits of washing? Chatting to the kids about her? No no no no no.

If he's going, he stays gone. What a cheeky fucker.

Bluegingham Fri 14-Sep-12 09:01:28

"Personally I'd prefer it if he moved in with OW permanently but he's still refusing."

Make Him Do It.

Pack his things, his clothes, his toiletries, his computer, his books, everything. Put them in a taxi and send them to his office. Every last sock. "Refusing." angry
So what if he's having a breakdown. So fucking what. Get to your solicitor and start proceedings. All the better if he's vulnerable. He deserves no better.

alienreflux Fri 14-Sep-12 09:03:37

morning mcb, sooo glad you're feeling stronger today, balloonslayer and anyfucker are dead right, we are here for you, kick the fucking twat to the kerb. let him have his OW you and your kids are going to be better than fine, you're going to be happy, and healthy and love yourself again. You can do it xxx

SuffolkNWhat Fri 14-Sep-12 09:05:14

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DragonMamma Fri 14-Sep-12 09:14:22

Delurking because I've been following your posts.

Seriously, you need to throw him out on his backside. Letting him stay at the weekend is madness and you are prolonging the agony and despite what you say, I feel you're living in hope of him 'coming to his senses' and there being a reconciliation. It's not going to happen. He's a twat of the highest order - he's not having a breakdown, you're just looking for excuses for how he's behaving when there aren't any.

Pack his bags and pack him off to OW - he's her concern now, not yours.

Be strong and get angry.

bogeyface Fri 14-Sep-12 09:15:48

He is not having a breakdown. He is however, happy for you to think that he is as then you will excuse his completely appalling behaviour.

He isnt mentally ill, he is a selfishm thoughtless, cruel and demanding shit head.

He doesnt get to refuse to move out. He leaves, you add a nice fat bolt to the door and hand over the kids to him for his access. End of discussion.

He is a cunt. Do not allow him to manipulate you in this way. Get yourself to a solicitor asap.

alienreflux Fri 14-Sep-12 09:18:30

yes, the weekend won't work love, he's still getting it his own way, in fact that is a dream result for him, gets to shag the OW and practically be single and childless all week, then gets to be dad of the year at the wknds??!! it's fucking madness, and will break your kids hearts. ffs think of them, and yourself.

Rustyspringfield Fri 14-Sep-12 09:22:49

Go to Poundland, get a roll of economy black bin-liners, chuck his stuff in, call taxi, load car, drive to his work or OW's house, unload car. Job done!

Bollocks to his breakdown!

He's playing you like a fiddle and has you exactly where he wants you. Bet you are still doing his laundry and cooking for him too.

He was with the OW just before you gave birth. He has ZERO respect or love for you. That is the time when a decent loving partner would be by your side and unable to think of anything but you and his child, because he loves you so much.

Why are you putting up with being second best? sad

What about your previous relationships and the relationships around you - have they been like this?

He doesn't deserve you. Go and see a solicitor, please. He is horrible.

Sorry to be blunt but i am so saddened when i read threads like this and what many women endure. Your children will be fine - yes, it will take some adjusting and won't be easy, but they are young. They can have a relationship with their dad and a mother who is strong and doesn't take shit from men like this.

Fairyjen Fri 14-Sep-12 09:49:01

Firstly I applaud that you have tried to make the marriage work. However! It's time to nail your flag to the mast girl. Think about the impact this will be having on your kids an what you are teaching them re respecting women.
This is not your fault clearly he cant keep it in his pants and your paying the price for this.
I'm a social worker and yes you can move the kids away however so can he if he is on the birth certificate. You need to see a lawyer ASAP. Stay in the house or ow could end up in there! Make him leave, tell him it's what's best for children. If he is any kind of dad he will agree and leave.
Lastly you do have support even if you not near family. Where do you live? Maybe some mums netters near you!
Good luck and chin up you can do way better!!!

catsmother Fri 14-Sep-12 09:52:09

Though no-one here can say for sure, statistically it's extremely unlikley that he's having a breakdown. What he's almost certainly having however is a great big pity-fest as he's realising how his cosy selfish little set up is in danger of crashing round his ears. Moping about, seeming moody etc etc is designed to elicit sympathy from you - or at least give him some breathing space while he decides what to do/what he wants. I'm sure it's not a question of him being genuinely torn and giving genuine consideration to the situation - but more him panicking because you're looking as if you're going to force a timetable on him which doesn't suit. There's every chance his thing with the OW isn't some soppy love story but an opportunistic fuck ... but now, with you pressuring him to leave - and telling him to go to her (for example) - he's having to face up to "getting serious" with a woman he doesn't want to get serious with anyway.

(BTW: dunno if you watch Corrie, but that'd be a bit like the Stella/Carl/Sunita story with him leaving Stella and moving in with Sunita even though he doesn't want to - simply because he has nowhere else to go)

Whatever ...... none of this should be your problem. Insisting on remaining at home - regardless of his legal right to be there - is, under the circumstances cruel and incredibly selfish. Not only towards you but the children as well. Unless you live in a mansion with separate wings I can't see how this would ever work ... even on, as suggested, a part time weekend basis. While you remain in such close proximity then you are vulnerable to any attention seeking displays of "poor me" (FFS!!!) behaviour and of course his mere physical presence will make it almost impossible to make the emotional break you need to start making from him. Shagging you the other night (not making love by any stretch of the imagination) was, apart from being a selfish physical release) was likely to have been his way of keeping you sweet just so far as to knock your resolve about him leaving. Note how he didn't say after what an absolute bastard I've been or anything like that, but went back to this woe is me I'm conflicted stance. So .... throwing you a few crumbs of hope by being intimate, then almost immediately crushing you again by what he said. Note he didn't say it was definitely all over .... he's basically dangling you on a string.

I doubt he wants you or the OW really. What he wants, as you've correctly identified is sex to suit, a housekeeper, no responsibility, no calls on his time unless he wants and so on. As so many others have already said the pathetic little man-boy should have thought of all that before becoming a father then shouldn't he ... and he should have sorted out some permanent birth control for himself before adding to the responsibility that he doesn't want to have. But he didn't want that either did he ? Everything is about what he wants, what suits him. He doesn't like the idea of leaving and having to find somewhere to sleep poor baby so instead he's inflicting this intolerable situation on you and his children. What a nasty cunt he really is.

You really really need to see a solicitor as soon as you can. Knowledge is power after all.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, and so angry for you.

MorrisZapp Fri 14-Sep-12 10:03:53

Yup, what they all said. That Willard guy speaks such sense.

You only have one choice here. Boot him out, with all his crap. See how he likes it at his cosy love nest then.

When OW is faced with his laundry pile, and your twat husband is faced with the reality of living with her full time, their dream will turn to shit.

And you'll hold all the cards. Do it.

Fairyjen Fri 14-Sep-12 10:10:42

Can I point out that being a serial fucktard is not a mental illness! It's not a breakdown that's getting to him it's the reality of the situation he has caused!
Note that I said HE caused not YOU!!

McBuckers Fri 14-Sep-12 11:55:43

But if I chuck him out he'll stop paying into the joint account and I can't afford all the bills etc myself.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 14-Sep-12 11:58:55

Go and see CAB and a solicitor (find one that offers free half hour consultations). Also contact CSA, tax credits etc. You need to be proactive and find out what you are entitled to - that way you will feel stronger.

You really need to confide in close family and friends and get their support.

catsmother Fri 14-Sep-12 12:06:21

That's why you need legal advice so you know exactly where you stand. I'm not entirely sure but I think that it's possible to apply to court for a short term maintenance order (if this can't be agreed amicably) which would perhaps tide you over until everything's been finalised in a divorce.

Also ... it may be very useful to see the CAB about money - what benefits you might be entitled to etc., and to work out before you panic what you'd need to survive on if he wasn't there. Take into account single person's discount on council tax, and maybe enquire about a mortgage holiday and/or a temporary switch to interest only payments in the interim. Obviously he would have to pay you child maintenance. Again, if this can't be agreed amicably then you'd need to get CSA involved and he couldn't simply refuse once they're involved.

Consider that your current mortgage would be a temporary issue if you intend to move back to your home town - though obviously housing would still need to be taken into account when you get there.

bogeyface Fri 14-Sep-12 12:29:48

Get onto tax credits today to tell them that you have split up. They will redo your claim as a single parent and then once you have that coming in, you can chuck him out. Also tell him that unless he ponys up 25% of his wages to you in maintenance (the CSA rate for 3 children) then you will be onto them to have it taken out of his wages.

You will manage, and there are plenty of people who will help you smile

Go to http://www.turn2us.org.uk/benefits_search.aspx and go through their benefits calculator. It isnt exact but should give you a rough idea of what you income would be. You may also be entitled to housing benefit if you pay rent rather than mortgage and you will definitely be entitled to a reduction in council tax if he moves out, as a single adult in the house. Him staying at the house every weekend could screw up your benefits entitlement though, so ffs dont let that happen.

bogeyface Fri 14-Sep-12 12:31:01
Bluegingham Fri 14-Sep-12 12:34:25

"But if I chuck him out he'll stop paying into the joint account and I can't afford all the bills etc myself."

Oh well, you must keep him then. At any and all costs.

Come off it. Get thee to a solicitor right this minute.

Charbon Fri 14-Sep-12 12:53:52

Yes, come on McBuckers.

You know in your logical mind that he can't stop paying for his children and that if he does, there will be a safety net there so that you don't all starve while the CSA catches up with him.

You also know logically that trying to appease someone, or worse still trying to stay with him, just because you think he'd shaft you and his children if you didn't, is always the wrong reason.

What's really going on here is fear of being on your own, losing this 'relationship' and being a lone co-parent.

All those fears are understandable, but you need to acknowledge them.

And stop thinking that he's mentally ill and if you pretend to the world and your children that he's working away during the week for long enough, he will 'come to his senses' and return as a decent husband and father.

He won't.

This isn't just about you either, it's about your children. How is your poor DD today for example, after her father's disgraceful behaviour yesterday? You need to put your energies into her and your other children right now and make wise choices about their welfare.

You need to live separately however you manage it and he needs to know your relationship is over.

He needs to get on with the business of being a lone co-parent in his own space, a completely different space to the one in which you are living.

Right now he's lost nothing, not even your respect it seems.

catsmother Fri 14-Sep-12 13:11:22

Finding out what you're entitled to, how you can save money short term (e.g. mortgage holiday) etc is also about you taking control of the situation. I totally appreciate that change is scary and that when you split up and/or move there'll almost certainly be additional costs to consider and yes, maybe your standard of living might drop a little (though depending on circumstances and entitlement it doesn't always) but, and this is a big but, if you do nothing and accept the status quo I strongly suspect that quite apart from living in a goddamnawful situation which is going to mess with your head big time (plus the kids) he will leave sooner or later anyway. It'll just be on his timescale as opposed to yours - and on the basis of past evidence, and his complete lack of remorse for what's happened - I doubt you will get the courtesy of any prior warning or discussion. He'll just up and leave when it suits him and you'll be left dealing with the fallout. It's far far better that you start to investigate how you can cope on your own now without having it forced on you out of the blue. Okay ..... sure, this whole thing is pretty out of the blue I know and you're feeling very shocked, but if you arm yourself with knowledge now it'd be like reclaiming some of the confidence he's taken from you these last few days and you can drive things the way you want in your own time.

AnyFucker Fri 14-Sep-12 13:13:14

What are you thinking ?

He gets the best of both worlds with this plan. What will you tell the DC...he goes back to his gf on sun evening ?

This is awful, truly awful and guaranteed to fuck you up (even more)

You will never bet the chance to move on (meet a decent bloke perhaps) with him hanging.g around like bad smell

I totally agree with five

AnyFucker Fri 14-Sep-12 13:15:45

God, I hate typing on a phone, sorry about silly words appearing everywhere.

Mcbuckers Fri 14-Sep-12 13:29:57

I've got a CAB appointment next week and am attending a legal clinic.

This may sound pathetic but I never want the kids to see that I acted in any way badly throughout this. If I throw him out or change the locks he would always be able to use it against me.

I'm going to speak to his family and try to get them to exert some pressure on him to leave.

I don't think I'll be entitled to any benefits as I earn a good salary. Though I'm not sure I'll be able to continue to work with the child care costs and travel being so high. Even for just 3 days a week the nursery costs for 2 kids will come in at around £1300 a month and travel is around £350 a month.

Bluegingham Fri 14-Sep-12 14:11:27

" If I throw him out or change the locks he would always be able to use it against me."

That's utter, utter bollocks. He shags other women. The end.

Bluegingham Fri 14-Sep-12 14:15:01

Go off sick for a bit to get yourself together. That way you can get a grip on the finances, see of you can work/stay at home etc.

If you fear that he won't pay the bills if you kick him out then you need to take control of the money RIGHT NOW before the charmer decides to empty your accounts, hide assets, or blow it all on the new woman.

Please OP, we're all rooting for you, and sending you loving virtual kicks up the arse! Can you see a solicitor today? Do you have a legal helpline through work?

BalloonSlayer Fri 14-Sep-12 14:18:51

Yes you need to practise your incredulous "you must be raving mad" look and say:

"Look H, you get married and you either stay faithful, work through your problems together and are still living together when you are 80, or you fuck other women, move out and get divorced on the grounds of adultery. There is NO middle ground. There is no "fuck other women and stay living together" option. Are you actually mad? What planet are you ON?"

Fairyjen Fri 14-Sep-12 14:22:55

Do not change locks! I know from experience that this is actually illegal. You can get loads of benigits as a single parent so don't worry about money. Besides money will not teach your dc to respect themselves and others but your actions during this difficult time will! Stay strong!

yeah i'm afraid i don't think you are considering your children nearly enough in this. i understand you're scared but you're a mum - we have to have backbones of steel.

Charbon Fri 14-Sep-12 15:11:37

If you don't want the kids to see you behaving badly over this, then you will do what needs to be done and separate from their monumentally selfish father, whose behaviour is causing your DD dreadful angst right now.

There is always a middle ground between slinging dustbin bags on the lawn and unilaterally changing locks - and remaining in the same house, causing havoc to the children's equilibrium (and your own). It doesn't have to be that black or white.

What people often misunderstand is that leaving a house and temporarily losing the right to enter what has become the other (now separate) person's home when you feel like it, does not mean losing your rights to the bricks and mortar if and when it's sold. It's simple to put a legal charge on the house and not lose any rights to it. That's available to you too.

If your husband is selfish and entitled enough not to leave the house, or doesn't understand the above, then you don't have to live with him. While it would of course be absurd for him to remain in a family house on his own while you have to find somewhere else for you and the children, that does need to be your bottom line - that what ever happens, you will not live with him and continue to expose your children to these upsetting scenes.

If you and others can persuade him to leave and agreeing to the locks being changed, then that's the best and fairest outcome.

You need to make a home for you and your children that is inviolate. Take every step available to you in order to achieve that.

DragonMamma Fri 14-Sep-12 15:14:57

Under what circumstances would your children hold the fact that you threw their cheating, twat of a father out of the house?

I'd actually lose respect for my mother if she did that and wonder what kind of dormat person she was to have that little respect for herself.

You need to get on to the CSA asap, if he will use money against you as a way to keep a foot in the door.

Oh and rub chillies in his boxers, for good measure. The wanker.

Charbon Fri 14-Sep-12 15:28:30

By the way OP, because you've changed the capital 'B' in Buckers to a small b, your posts are now not showing as the OP's.

fiventhree Fri 14-Sep-12 15:53:12

Even from a strategic viewpoint it is a sensible thing to do. Lets just agree for a moment that you do love him, and want to keep him, since you have said that is the case.

OP, in that case, you would far rather he was begging you to stay with him, rather than telling you how he plans to live, and expecting you to take it.

If you chuck him out now, there is at least a chance of that outcome, whereas staying with him means that he will never face any painful consequences of his decision, no has no reason to stop having affairs, at all.

Interestingly, though, the changes you will make to yourself to enable you to do that, the independent mindedness and self respect you will need to develop, may possibly make you feel that it is you who doesnt need him, as opposed to the other way around.

Under those circumstances, if you did then take him back, it would be because he was a changed man, as opposed to a selfish git.

And if it all backfires? It may well. In that case, he never, ever was going to change, and you would have found out earlier.

yes i lost all respect and trust for BOTH of my parents and looking back i'm still disgusted by their utter childishness and selfishness that his adultery and her codependency and the drama she put us through in order to 'keep' him (using us in the process) displayed. they didn't think of us AT ALL really and that was obvious to us.

grown ups leave a relationship they are not happy with cleanly and decently especially when their children are involved rather than start shagging about and bringing home the drama and trauma to the kids. the other half, if grown up, puts the kids first and gets the home stable again for them as their priority - not 'but i love 'im' and dragging the kids through emotional hysteria as they do their emotional drama over and over.

sorry to be harsh but these are facts.

seriously you may have another husband your children WON'T get another childhood.

50shadesofgreyhair Fri 14-Sep-12 19:57:35

OP - this is what you should do:

Tell him that he can go to OW for the weekdays, and home weekends.

On Monday, wave him off to work , see a solicitor and start divorce proceedings. Name OW and file for adultery. Then see a locksmith and get the locks changed.

On Tuesday, bag up all his stuff.

On Wednesday, tell him you've had a good think and the couple of days apart have made you realise that you wouldn't have him back if his arse was stuffed with gold, and he can come and collect his stuff - it's sitting on the driveway. If it isn't collected by Thursday, it's going to the skip\dump. Change your phone no. or block him.

On Thursday, get yourself down the GPs to arrange STDs. If twunt's stuff is still in driveway, get it taken to dump/skip/OWs garden.

On Friday, come and tell us that you're moving on with your life, and that you feel better than you have for weeks.

Saffy X

GeekLove Fri 14-Sep-12 22:46:37

Repeat after me:

My husband is a dirty little bastard

My husband is a dirty little bastard

My husband is a dirty little bastard

We deserve so much better than him.

Single parentdom will be such a relationship upgrade coMpared to that piece of shit. You have already effectively been a single parent already.
Follow all the good advice given here by those who have been through and good luck.
It is not your job to mop up his emotional diarrheoa.

Yes it's technically wrong to change the locks.

But if the OP just happens to have lost her key & has HAD to get the locks changed then what can she do??? hmm

Of course when his sol gets in touch she can take a few weeks to reply & put in the letter saying of course he can have a spare key copy....then forget to post it until after the house is sorted. grin

Markingthehours Sat 15-Sep-12 01:12:24

McB if your salary is very good surely you coulf afford childcare?

If not then you will get 70% of childcare costs thro tax credits I should think.

BUT right there^ is the point!

You need to find out what are the real diiculties on your own and what are your fears. You need to face up to the reality of your H leaving your marriage and living on your own with your DC. Go and find out where you stand.

It WILL be ok. I know you probably can't accept that... but hundreds of mners have been through this and we know.

It's very scary at first... but great once you're free of selfish, weak, nasty men

Come ON McB you CAN do it. What would your mum/grandmother say to you if they knew of your situation? Would they want you and DC to stay with this inferior excuse of a man?

He deserves anything and everything you can throw at him.

50shadesofgreyhair Sat 15-Sep-12 07:41:48

The changing the locks thing is a grey area. Of course, legally you shouldn't. However, it can be manipulated. Like Bossy says, you can 'lose' your keys. You could always say that you thought someone had tried to break in, or a spare key you left under a plant pot had gone missing, so got new keys.

He'd have to legally apply for a set of keys, and he'd get them, but it would take weeks. It would buy you time.

Please face up to the fact that your marriage is over, and that he's treating you like shit, and most worryingly, you are allowing him to do this (why? why do you think this is all you deserve?), and it's time to call a halt to the whole horrible mess, because the future will be fine.

I threw out a cheating liar after 22 years of marriage, and was terrified of the consequences; terrified of being alone bringing up four kids. But I did it, and it's not easy, but it's a hell of a lot better than living a lie.

Good luck
Saffy x

BalloonSlayer Sat 15-Sep-12 07:49:37

Some houses have those locks that if you leave the keys in the front door you can't get in. Changing the back door lock and using the back door instead could be an option?

daytoday Sat 15-Sep-12 09:06:43

Hello OP,

Im so sorry to read your post.

I am a little confused as to why you want him back? It seems he hasn't really enhanced your life since the arrival of your kids. You do everything. If he 'chooses' you - what are you hoping your life together will be like? People dont transform. It sounds as though you think your love and might transform him from a turd to gold. Im a great believer in people are what they do. And many posters say, marriage and children can be very very hard and at times totally draining. We all go through phases. Sometimes we hate eachother, for months. But most of us subscribe to a shared notion of dignity and kindness. You are his wife, the mother of his children, fucking another women whist you are pregnant smashed this shared notions. I can't see how you can ever glue it back together. His core is rotten, and you know what honey, he knows it too!

Poogles Sat 15-Sep-12 09:27:32

In the past, I've had keys cut that don't actually work (I usually get 2 copies in the hope that 1 will work!). Perhaps a word with the key cutter... You will then have to get another key cut but I might happen again & will buy you time!

Poogles Sat 15-Sep-12 09:27:59

**it might happen, not I!

Fairyjen Sat 15-Sep-12 11:07:52

How you holding up today OP?

McBuckers Sat 15-Sep-12 12:07:43

I'm okay today. He didn't bother coming back last night. No warning. No text, just didn't bother. That was really lovely for the children this morning of course.

Then he texted saying he was sorry that he hadn't come home and that not phoning was a "big mistake" which in the grand scheme of things is the least of it!

fiventhree Sat 15-Sep-12 12:22:19

Oh poor you, Mrsb, he just keeps making excuses for his crappiness, doesnt he?

Would it help to analyse why you feel such need of him now? You know that thing about wanting only because we cant have- the desire for the undesirable?

I felt a bit like that after my h's numerous infidelities, but really, if anyone had aksed me the month before I found out whether he was 'all that', the answer would have been that he was a selfish and arrogant sod.

Which he now admits he was, too, and not because I asked him. But because I drew a line eventually (very fucking late) about what I would tolerate.

I do think you will get to that stage, actually, in your own time.

McBuckers Sat 15-Sep-12 13:06:01

Actually I'm getting over that need. My parents split when I was very young and I've never wanted that for my own children. But I am beginning to see that life without someone who always comes in after the kids have gone to bed, rolls over and goes back to sleep when they come in the bedroom in the morning, and who is constantly on his phone when he's with the kids won't be such a bad thing.

They'll also have a happier mummy who isn't just sitting at home waiting for daddy to come back home.

CremeEggThief Sat 15-Sep-12 14:10:27

That's the spirit, McB smile.

Charbon Sat 15-Sep-12 15:27:30

Because it's outside of your own personal experience, you might not appreciate how much staying together harms children McB.

Really harms them.

Completely skews their models of a relationship, ruins their friendships because they don't want their friends to comment on the atmosphere at home, embarrasses the hell out of them when friends gossip about their parent's affairs/drinking/insert inappropriate behaviours of choice.

Often, they end up hating both parents for allowing it.

In years to come, your children will thank you for giving them another chance at family life, either through happy and loving single parenthood - or more likely, with a stepfather who wouldn't dream of treating their mum and them like your husband treats you all now.

Your future is long and by separating now, you make you and your children's lives open to the possibility of happiness again. It will be fairly instant too for your children - no more overheard rows, fears that Dad has been injured or attacked and that's why he's not home by the morning - and no more excruciating rows on the phone with a woman who's not mum.

How is your DD by the way? What have either of you said to her?

see i'm afraid i find it sad that there is no mention of dd despite everyone's concerns. is she ok? what have you explained to her? what have you done to check that she is ok and feels safe and reassured after witnessing all this?

catfart Sat 15-Sep-12 17:22:48

He's being extremely cruel. If he had an ounce of decency he would leave the house, it's not fair on you or the children. Its just more convenient for him this way. Hopefully the legal clinic will help you next week give clarity on your options.

McBuckers Sat 15-Sep-12 18:12:10

She's okay. She went for her swimming lesson this morning and I took all three to the park this aftetnoon. They're now having their usual weekly treat night with a pizza, movie and popcorn. She's wondering where daddy is but to be fair he's out such a lot that they don't see him much during the week anyway.

He still sees that he's done nothing wrong, he says "I've done nothing wrong all I've done is fall in love" and "I've done this by the book" - obviously the book of hoe to be a complete twunt.

I think it's obvious this pathetic excuse of a man cares little for his children.

Charbon Sat 15-Sep-12 19:00:59

Have you talked to her about what she witnessed the other morning, during that phone call?

Has your husband?

If you haven't, have a think about why you've avoided that. If there is any self-interest in that, hoping that if you ignore it and pretend it didn't happen, she won't remember it when you get back together - please, please put her feelings first. That's a horrible burden for a child and she needs an outlet to talk about what she overheard.

Your husband's self-delusion knows no bounds. As if 'love' excuses his behaviour.....sheesh. I'd be enthralled to know how at least 2 affairs in the past 10 months and wanting to live with you while he stays involved with the latest OW is anyone's definition of 'playing it by the book' hmm

So what are you going to do McB?

McBuckers Sat 15-Sep-12 19:24:22

I did ask her about what daddy was talking about and she says it was " just work stuff" that's what he told her and she seems to believe it (thank god).

I've spoken to her about a couple of her friends at school whose mummies and daddies no longer live together but that's about it. I think we need to talk to her together to reassure her that she is still loved by both of us and that whatever happens between us bears no relation to how much we love her and her sisters.

McBuckers Sat 15-Sep-12 19:28:06

Obviously the 3 month old doesn't understand anything but I'm at a loss to what to say to the 2 yr old.

It's all such a mess. I'm having a low point tonight, i can't stop thinking about my poor girls and how this will affect them.

Fairyjen Sat 15-Sep-12 19:44:34

Listen it will be ok. Just make sure your a constant in their lives regardless of your H. Stay strong and know that you are in the right. Whatever your dc ask, be honest!

CremeEggThief Sat 15-Sep-12 19:46:14

I don't wish to sound harsh, but he certainly doesn't come across as loving them as much as you or as doing anywhere much as you do for them, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope of him being very 'hands on', once you get him out. He is a very selfish person, who seems unwilling to put the needs of his children first.

Markingthehours Sat 15-Sep-12 21:18:10

What should you say to the 2 year old? Nothing.

At 2 I'd be surprised if she even asks much about her absent father given he's not there much in body nevermind spirit. If she does ask just say he's at work for the present - actually same for 6 year old - until you've got contact arrangements in place.

Your girls will be fine if they've got a strong happy mum. And you will be once you settle into a proper arrangement and routine. Until you've got some legal advice you are a bit in limbo. But once you know where you stand you can start to formulate a plan for the future.

I'm so sorry your H is oblivious to the emotional pain he's caused not to mention his despicable, thoughtless and cheap way of going about this - not in any book I know of. That makes it doubly hard for you. But you need to forget all about what he thinks and his perspective. He is no longer part of your priorities. Now you need to think about you and DDs. What do you need to get through this? What do you want for you and DDs?

Work out your best and worst case scenarios. Then discuss thenm with the solicitor.

You will be ok McB. YOu will get thro this and will look back and wonder why you put up with that low life, weak, piece of shit for so long. I am absolutely sure of that.

Bluegingham Sat 15-Sep-12 22:24:35

He still sees that he's done nothing wrong, he says "I've done nothing wrong all I've done is fall in love" and "I've done this by the book"

That has flabbergasted me. And the reminder that your youngest is 12 weeks old. What a terrible, terrible man you're currently married to. I feel so sad for you. And let me tell you absolutely that this is ALL HIS FAULT. What a disgrace he is.

Have you spelled out to his parents that he's sleeping with someone else but won't leave?

This will honestly honestly honestly get better. And you absolutely will be fine. Be strong! X

McBuckers Sun 16-Sep-12 09:02:11

Well the twunt eventually came home at 2am.

Apparently he's now made arrangements to live with her for 2 days a week not sure when this farce will start.

My mum is coming to stay for a few days which should be fun as they can't stand each other.

I am going to do anything I can to make him uncomfortable.

auberginesarenottheonlyfruit Sun 16-Sep-12 09:13:25

"Apparently he's now made arrangements to live with her for 2 days a week" shock shock

How, on God's earth, can he possibly think this is an acceptable way forward? Why are you going along with it? What would he say or do if you just simply said "No! Either you live here full-time and participate in normal family life, or you go completely."
You said that he "won't" leave, but yet he thinks he can leave some of the time? He's mad!
And as for "All I've done is to fall in love." That's almost funny.

CakeBump Sun 16-Sep-12 09:13:31

Oh God McB, just kick him out!! What are you gaining from this?

omg so you're expected to live with a man who spends two nights a week with his mistress? he is fucking unbelievable.

Rowanhart Sun 16-Sep-12 09:21:42

You need to act pronto. This is getting ridiculous.

Get legal advice in Monday. Ring his mum and dad and tell them.

Now making life difficult plans:

Could you move DM or various relatives in the same two days a week?

Make sure you've put locks on a couple of food cupboards and move everything to them. Only make meals for you and kids.

Put up a cleaning rota.

Is there a spare room? Put lock on your bedroom and move his stuff out. If not (even better) then put an air bed in garage.

Every time he puts dirty washing in basketbetc take it out and dump on his bed.

Keep repeating to him. We're just flat mates now, and ones who don't want to live together at that. Go and live with OW. We don't want you here.

McBuckers Sun 16-Sep-12 09:21:48

Aubergines - he is deluded. He said I'd been a cunt to him for 6 years when actually all I've done is try to be a good wife.

He really is the model of a selfish arrogant twunt. The sooner he is out of all our lives the better.

Rowanhart Sun 16-Sep-12 09:23:11

Start divorce proceedings!

Rowanhart Sun 16-Sep-12 09:24:32

I mean mice relatives in every time he his home to be as awful to him as possible.

Or even have a different MNetter to stay! Ha!

Rowanhart Sun 16-Sep-12 09:24:51

Move. Aargh....

god yes - i'll do a day a week!

Inertia Sun 16-Sep-12 09:36:06

While your mum is there and can help with childcare, please please please see as many solicitors as you can that offer a free initial consultation. You need legal advice about where you stand here, because your husband is completely taking the piss. You need to establish exactly what you are entitled to . He's treating you like an unpaid housekeeper and using you for sex ( presumably ow wasn't available that night ? )

McB, you don't have to let him dictate terms to you. You can take charge of your life.

And he sounds so uninvolved with the children, I bet they'll hardly notice he's gone, and they'll care even less.

CremeEggThief Sun 16-Sep-12 09:41:47

Oh McB sad. I am honestly thinking he is the most selfish, horrible excuse for a man ever!

If my STBXH had dared to speak to me like that (although I suspect he secretly thinks all he did was fall in love too), lets just say all those stabbing fantasies I had in the first couple of weeks of finding out would have turned into reality.

Right he is taking the piss Big Time.

She can either have him living with her or not- HIS problem. As long as he is OUT, this is not good for your mental health OR that of the kids & whilst I agree in principle with Rowanheart about making it clear you are flatmates only what message does that send to the kids?

Everytime he accuses you of anything ignore & state "it's best for the children" -tell him you are not prepared to acccept this part time deal.

Then first time he is out if the place for his 2 nights change the locks, keep a spare key ready to hand to his solicitor if/when the need arises.

I can't remember what/if you said before do you jointly own/rent the house?

alienreflux Sun 16-Sep-12 09:47:32

oh love, he's a total arsehole isn't he?! 2days a week at hers and the rest at yours??!! what actual planet is he living on? i really really hope you are not going to let that happen, it will be soul destroying for you, and the kids won't know if they are coming or going. excellent news your mum is coming, hopefully she will say what you can't seem to "fuck off you twat, you will be hearing from my solicitor" good luck and stay strong, we are all here for you

Flojo1979 Sun 16-Sep-12 09:51:12

My DCs were 2 & 6 when exP left. I told my 6 yo what was going on but I just kept telling my 2 yo he was at work and eventually she stopped asking.

He is taking the piss but I guess there's not a lot u can do until u can sell the house, just make things uncomfortable for him, if he can stop with OW for 2 nights a wk then I don't see why he can't permanently, i'm guessing he's been advised to stay in the house to keep his rights over it.

CremeEggThief Sun 16-Sep-12 09:51:35

What he has done and is doing is emotional abuse, OP, so it may be worth approaching W.A. to discuss strategies to make you feel stronger when you have to deal with him.

thanks

McBuckers Sun 16-Sep-12 09:58:38

We own the house jointly with a mortgage.

He's a bit of a bully and quick to anger, and if I say "no" there's nothing to stop him just not coming home for those two nights. He appears to have all the trump cards at the moment.

I would love to just bugger off for a weekend and leave him with all three kids but that wouldn't be fair on them.

The dilemma I have is that there are lots of things I'd like to do to make him go but they all impact negatively on the kids.

Doha Sun 16-Sep-12 10:02:53

Down tools.

Firstly stop doing ANYTHING for him, cooking washing etc. He has "fallen in love" well lets see how long it lasts when he is either dressed like a hobo smelling to high heaven or he gets her to wash his dirty underwear--ugh

Get all benefits tax credit child benefit paid into your accoubt id not already, take a copy of all documents, savings etc.

Get your 1/2 hour free advice from a lawyer anda start the ball rolling to get him out

auberginesarenottheonlyfruit Sun 16-Sep-12 10:06:05

There are hundreds of cases on MN alone where people have booted husbands out where they jointly own the house. Doesn't have to make any difference.

And if he accuses you of having been a c***, the only answer to that is that it takes one to know one. He's holding all the aces because he's got you scared of him - quick to anger?

Yes make sure you have copies of as much paperwork as possible to prove his income.

Come on McB get proactive we're behind you don't let this bugger grind you down.

Bluegingham Sun 16-Sep-12 10:09:06

What's starting to scare me is his self-justification, and projecting blame onto you. That means he'll try and justify more and more awful behaviour.

Eg: Bringing the woman to your house. "She's only here to pick me up" etc

Letting the children meet this woman

Clearing your bank accounts, selling your assets, taking a loan/mortgage against the house etc

Taking one or more of the children with him to OWs

Telling lies to your children about you etc etc

You post the latest outrageous things he's done and said. What do YOU say and do? I'm worried that you still want him to "come to his senses" and make everything ok again. Is that what's happening? I'm hoping against hope that you're getting angry with him but at the moment I hate to say it but you sound awfully passive.
And sorry to contradict Rowanheart but I wouldn't go down the route of rotas, and making him uncomfortable. He has to go.

What about if you said "if you have any regard for me and the kids you'll leave. And then we can sort something formally." What have you said, and what do his parents say? I'd ring his boss too. Fuck him.

Doha Sun 16-Sep-12 10:10:05

Don't tthink the OW will put up with "sharing" him for long... with any luck she will make him choose and she will win--------some prize for her and the bloody jackpot for you McB

Bluegingham Sun 16-Sep-12 10:10:08

rowanheart and others

It might be worth writing to the mortgage lender too to put a note on your joint account that there is a divorce pending & that if he defaults on the payments it is not down to you, they should be able to freeze the accoun to stop him remortgaging or taking a loan against it. Maybe ring them first to ask advice.

Rowanhart Sun 16-Sep-12 10:28:34

Sorry I only meant make him uncomfortable as he won't go to try and drive him out.

Clearly getting him our ASAP is the best thing!

skyebluesapphire Sun 16-Sep-12 10:48:08

I agree, contact your mortgage company and get them to put a stop on the account. It means that no further money can be borrowed against the property without the consent of both of you.

You do need to take all necessary steps to protect yourself financially.

Bluegingham Sun 16-Sep-12 11:07:17

Sorry Rowanheart I wasn't having a dig at you specifically, I couldn't see the names of the others going for the uncomfortable option. But then I'm an extremist in these matters and would have had him shot by now. Or at least a "chat" with my deeply violent brothers.

GeekLove Sun 16-Sep-12 11:52:09

What a lying stinking sack of shit. Have you got those crates for his dirty washin and pots? Make sure they are airtight so that the smell doesn't trouble you. Lets see how clever he thinks he is when he is eating beans off paper plates with plastic cutlery while you have nice food with your DCs.
Tell him the last thing he is having from you is paper plates and plastic forks and maybe a tin of beans if you are feeling generous.
Start removing his clothes from the wardrobe.
Tell him that the last piece of wifework will be to back his bags for his beloved OW.

Rowanheart I agree she mustn't let him feel comfortable! grin

I also agree with Geeklove get some black bin liners & dump all his stuff in the hall for him to take. Tell him if they don't go you'll put them out for the rubbish.

McBuckers Sun 16-Sep-12 13:19:22

I keep telling him that he must go and leave us alone.

I've told him that I will no longer cook, clean, wash, iron or tidy for him.

He used the bathroom this morning and I asked him to please leave it as he had found it - clean and tidy. He went mental and started shouting "how dare you tell me what to do. You will never tell me what to do ever again".

He's a control freak.

I honestly can't understand how he manages to twist reality so badly. Do you think he's actually aware that he is lying or does he actually believe it himself.

He is a control freak & doesn't like you being a bit more in control than you have been so he is turning on you....how dare his doormat answer back & start asserting her authority over "he who must be obeyed". hmm

Keep up the stance & do consider getting those locks changed & leave his bags out.

Rowanhart Sun 16-Sep-12 13:31:55

He went 'mental and started shouting?'

Sounds like a calling the police issue to me.

Don't they automatically call SS for ones tic problems? And don't SS insist on violent person being removed from home?!

While the desire to punish him by withdrawing all domestic services is understandable, I can see that being a bit bad for DC to witness. Keep talking to WA and solicitors about how to force him out of the house as fast as possible.
And do tell everyone*; your parents, his parents, all mutual friends, that the marriage is over due to his infidelity. Other people, *nice people, will not cause scenes in front of your DC but they may well tell your H what a shit he is and put pressure on him to move out of the family home.

Fairyjen Sun 16-Sep-12 14:30:20

Speaking as a social worker, police will only involve themselves if their is visible and significant risk to the children and it does not sound as though there is. Don't you know any fit young men that could stay for a while??? I agree by way I would defo do a stint at yours to make him feel uncomfortable and to give you support!

I'm looking forward to Grandma McBucket coming as reinforcement. You need back up.

McBuckers Sun 16-Sep-12 15:03:01

The cavalry has arrived. Hubby has a face like thunder and I have a lovely new hairdo.

To quote a well known disco diva "I'm not that chained up little person still in love with you"

Bluegingham Sun 16-Sep-12 15:19:36

Is your mum going to chew his balls off? grin

More detail please! And happy new hair!

(Am reading this thread in my local Costa and did a little cheer now your mum's here! Is it weird that there are strangers in coffee shops cheering for you?!)

Bluegingham Sun 16-Sep-12 15:21:44

To quote another good song
"Mamma, just killed man! Put a gun against his head, pulled the trigger now he's deeeead" grin

Yaay for the cavalry.

A new hairdo is a great confidence booster -what next?

Now Grandma is here to help with the children can you do a few solicitors visits?

Get a few free half hours with different ones till you find one you click with. The added bonus is anyone you have consulted cannot act for him <wicked grin> even if you don't use them!

brianbennettfan Sun 16-Sep-12 15:27:52

De-lurking to say, "Bravo, McB!" I hope your Ma gives him hell. Now please act upon all the good advice of the fab ladies who have already supported you on this thread.

I only had to put up with my exH for ten days after I found out about OW. I felt like killing him, but the closest that I got to that was letting him have it with a bowl of hot tomato soup. Not to be recommended, I had to redecorate the kitchen.

All best wishes thanks

skyebluesapphire Sun 16-Sep-12 15:29:30

grin at brianbennett - tomato soup everywhere not a pretty sight, but I hope it made you feel good

Fairyjen Sun 16-Sep-12 15:42:58

I would have loved to have seen his face when your mum arrived! God bless mums, always there when we need them. Perhaps you could have some mates round as well? Or a play date?

brianbennettfan Sun 16-Sep-12 16:07:24

at brianbennett - tomato soup everywhere not a pretty sight, but I hope it made you feel good

Bloody brilliant, thanks, skye, but I still wouldn't recommend it especially in a white kitchen.grin

brianbennettfan Sun 16-Sep-12 16:08:55

And it was Heinz, should have used a cheaper soup.

What a waste of Heinz brian ! grin

However I can see the satisfaction, & it is nice & thick so hopefully burnt the bugger hit him fair & square!

McB Roughly which end of the country are you? I think we could summon up a rota of MN-ers to sit & stare at him & freak him out chat inanely.

brianbennettfan Sun 16-Sep-12 16:30:04

However I can see the satisfaction, & it is nice & thick so hopefully burnt the bugger hit him fair & square!

Too right, Bossy, and it was delivered after, "You're wondering where your lunch is, dear? Here it is!"

I was called a bitch, which I thought was most unfair in the circumstances. grin

Fairyjen Sun 16-Sep-12 17:25:09

I agree that's harsh! You could've cook him nothing!

CremeEggThief Sun 16-Sep-12 17:50:48

Honestly, these cheating fucking bastards should be grateful they haven't had their eyes scratched out! angry

Bluegingham Sun 16-Sep-12 18:18:41

OP, does he have a sister? If he does, ask him how he would feel if she was treated like this.

Fairyjen Sun 16-Sep-12 18:51:37

More to the point ask him how he would feel if it was your dd's husband doing this to her in years to come!

AnyFucker Sun 16-Sep-12 20:09:56

I cannot believe how passive you are, OP

Are you frightened of violence ? That is the only reason that would justify such weak acceptance of the terms he is attempting to dictate

I said it upthread, and I'll say it again because I am struggling to type much of anything else that doesn't include something likely to knock you when you are already down

start divorce proceedings

follow them through

your marriage is over

are you listening to any advice on your thread, at all ?

do you still think he will change his mind and come back to you ?

I hope, for your sake (but mostly for your kids, who you are damaging by your inaction, and poor role-modelling), he doesn't

I won't go into detail about how he is damaging your kids, because he's been doing it for some time, and you keep rolling over and taking it when the time is way past when you should be thinking very carefully about how many chances you have already given him to fuck you all over

Markingthehours Sun 16-Sep-12 23:44:51

GET TO A SOLICITOR McB.

I agree with another poster - he is going to start playing really nasty soon. He will clear all monies, be even more of a complete tosser to you, and start involving OW with the DCS.

YOu need legal advice.

olgaga Mon 17-Sep-12 00:24:33

Oh McB, don't let it grind you down, you put your children first, that's obvious to everyone but that awful man.

Keep on keeping on - PM me if you like if there is anything in the links you'd like a view on.

god he is horrible isn't he?

so glad your mum has arrived. keep firm and do nothing for him. make clear in your actions that it is over and he is not welcome and you're not going to budge. presumably with the pressure mounting the OW will be being treated to exhibitions of his foul temper too.

this man is hideous.

McB What has your Mum said about it all?

alienreflux Mon 17-Sep-12 15:23:21

hey mcb, how's it going? glad you have had your hair done! (really hoping that's for you and not him by the way) how is your mam handling this? have you got any further with solicitors? sorry 4 all the q's, hope you're ok

also hoping you're ok and wondering how things are going.

stay strong. keep seeing him for what he really is rather than what you wish he could be.

McBuckers Tue 18-Sep-12 10:14:03

Trying to hold it together for the kids at the moment but it's getting harder by the day. He's still living here and we're being pretty nasty to each other when the kids aren't around.

He's still refusing to move out completely. One minute he says that he's not having a relationship with her but she's offered to put him up in her spare room 2 nights a week, the next minute he says that he's in love with her but he can't move in because she lives in a shared flat.

Am getting some professional advice as to where I stand tomorrow and Thursday.

Charbon Tue 18-Sep-12 10:28:50

Have you recruited his family to try to persuade him to move out?

Have you started the process of telling everyone what's been going on?

What do you mean by professional advice? Are you seeing a solicitor?

And crucially, have you realised yourself that this is over and there's no going back?

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 10:30:12

Glad to hear from you!

What did your mum say? Could you stay with her for a bit, with the children?

I wonder is it unravelling with the OW?

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 10:30:42

Where does he sleep?

olgaga Tue 18-Sep-12 10:56:27

Sending you good wishes McB and hoping you get the encouragement you need from the advice appointments you've made.

Hope your mum can stay until things are sorted.

McBuckers Tue 18-Sep-12 11:02:56

My mum thinks he's behaved like a twunt and wants to kill him but she's managed to stay polite. Him on the other hand shouts in front of her "what's she doing here just hanging around like a spectre at a feast".

He changes by the minute one minute angry the next being nice.

His parents are lovely and appreciate that it can't go on like this for long, so I think they will be speaking to him about it.

Unfortunately I don't think it is unravelling with the OW. I think he just can't move in there because she has flat mates and they probably wouldn't want an extra person in the house on a full time basis. I think his plan is to live here until they can get a place together where they can have the kids over for a couple of days a week.

He's sleeping in the playroom downstairs but this morning whe I went in the kitchen he wasn't ready to get up so actually tried to go back to bed in our bed - obviously I shoved him out.

I don't think there is any going back. He's not the lovely person I married or fell in love with anymore. He's selfish, arrogant, unfeeling and controlling. She's welcome to him. But not my children.

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 11:07:02

I'm PLEASED it's not unravelling with OW! That's a world of complication if she sees him for the twat he is.

And there is absolutely no going back, lovely.

I'm hoping your solicitor can give you some guidance about access and to what extent he's allowed to introduce OW to the children. What scum. You're SO well rid of him.

Charbon Tue 18-Sep-12 11:14:36

I think before this goes on much longer, you're going to need to speak to your oldest DD McB and tell her something about what's going on. Tell her school too, especially as she's been tearful. The school always needs to know if there are difficulties at home so that they can support her. She's not stupid. She will be joining the dots between the conversation she overheard, the terrible atmosphere and the fact that Dad's sleeping downstairs, when he deigns to even come home, that is.....

Who've you told and what have you said? And who've you made appointments with?

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 11:18:22

I agree. Also what does your mum think? And what did she do when he shouted? The cheeky bastard, how disrespectful.

Fairyjen Tue 18-Sep-12 11:26:35

Have you considered very calmly speaking to the OW about her living arrangements? You may well get the truth of their relationship status... I must say your handling this far better than me. I would've kicked his head in by now and then gone straight round ow's house to do same to her!!! Not very dignified I know!

CremeEggThief Tue 18-Sep-12 11:30:45

Best of luck with your appointments, McB. Good for you!

Honestly, I am left openmouthed in amazement at the absolute cheek of that wanker!

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 11:32:38

Fairyjen I think dignity is overrated. I couldn't control myself round a man behaving like this. Screaming fishwife/banshee x1000. And the OW? I''d bray her 'ed in, with a big bag of his finest possessions. She wants to shag him? Then she can have him. Every last sock.

And if that twat so much as looked at me in a manner that displeased me, I'd be on to the police explaining his reign of intimidating behaviour, and get him subject to an injunction.

Fuck dignity, frankly. smile

CremeEggThief Tue 18-Sep-12 11:43:12

Blue, I think you have a point there. I've gone down the dignified/indifferent/you-may-as-well-not-exist route, but I've probably lost my chance to rant, rave, spew hatred and vitriol and scratch their eyes out now. And that hurts. sad

McBuckers Tue 18-Sep-12 12:12:07

Screw dignity. I emailed their little love email thread to their boss, his parents, his sister, I emailed the OW and the previous OW together and suggested they formed a club called X's (husband's name) Sexually Generous Ladies club.

I texted her every time we slept together and texted her from his phone to tell her it was over.

Dignified? Nah...

Did it make me feel better? Oh yes!

CremeEggThief Tue 18-Sep-12 12:20:28

grin @ McB!

CremeEggThief Tue 18-Sep-12 12:23:38

Just sold STBX's camcorder that cost him about £800 9 years ago for a tenner at CashConverters. Ha!Ha!

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 12:24:09

YEEEEEE HAAAAARRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

Go girl!grin

<proud of you>

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 12:25:10

Wow Cremeggthief! Good work!!!

Rustyspringfield Tue 18-Sep-12 12:34:01

grin good to see you've got some fight in ya!

Time for the itching powder in "hubby's" yfronts!

CremeEggThief Tue 18-Sep-12 12:36:30

Cheers Blue smile.

just to say how he's being isn't different to who he was when you married him - this IS him. you're just seeing him open eyed.

he sounds an utterly vile creature.

McBuckers Tue 18-Sep-12 12:46:59

Yes he is pretty vile at the moment which is why I need him to leave.

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 12:56:16

I honestly don't think you've seen the worst of him yet, and that's what scares me about your situation. He sounds utterly ruthless and able to twist things so he believes them himself and makes his behaviour feel acceptable. "I've done nothing wrong except fall in love." That, is terrifying because it's SO deluded, so disconnected from the pain and damage he's causing you and his children.
I'm frightened for you and really want you to protect yourself in every way possible, even if it means upping the stakes.

McBuckers Tue 18-Sep-12 13:07:33

Bluegingham - he completely denies saying this now.

Over the last 3 weeks he's flitted between saying "I'm a mess I need help" to saying that he's in love with this other woman and is starting a new life with her.

He says he doesn't want to leave the kids with a nut-job like me and that he wants 50/50 access. But he only sees them for an hour in the morning before he goes to work (whilst he's also getting ready for work) and he's never back in time to put them to bed in the evening so I have no idea how equal access would work!

olgaga Tue 18-Sep-12 13:08:40

I think you should ring his parents again and emphasise how dreadful his behaviour is and how awful and upsetting his continued presence there is for you and the children.

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 13:28:10

MrsB, everything you've just said confirms my fear for you.

i reckon he's just trying to scare you with the 50/50 business and in any case no court in the land would award it to him given his complete lack of involvement with the children so don't let it worry you. not to mention i doubt he'd actually be unselfish enough to be a co-parent.

at the minute he's probably desperate to regain control of you - no going back to giving you a quick seeing to to soften you up so more likely to go for scaring you into submission instead.

Bluegingham Tue 18-Sep-12 13:42:24

"at the minute he's probably desperate to regain control of you - no going back to giving you a quick seeing to to soften you up so more likely to go for scaring you into submission instead."

This.

part of protecting yourself i think is to keep telling everyone what he does and has done.

if you are keeping secrets for him you are more of a target for abuse i think because he'd know he could get away with it. if you are loud about his actions to all and sundry he will know he can't get away with it and anything he does will be public knowledge.

alienreflux Tue 18-Sep-12 14:10:25

go McB!!!! really proud of that! you are definitely getting stronger, the twat basically can't move in with OW yet, he wants to. So you have have have to get him out of that house. Let him sort out his housing situation, he screwed his whole family over for that woman, he can sort the fucking practicalities out.
Really pleased to hear you're getting some advice. time to move forward. can't believe he talks in front of your mam that way, what a total dick. She has probably known him for what he is for years, so it may be water off a ducks back.
anyway, just so glad you are finally kicking back! keep it up love, we are with you!!

AnyFucker Tue 18-Sep-12 14:27:02

thank God you are finding your balls, McB

I was beginning to think they had disappeared completely

ignore threats of 50/50, it won't be awarded because any examination of how much contact he had with them before all this crap will be taken into account

the best he could hope for is every other weekend ( if he has somewhere suitable for them to go) and one early midweek trip to Maccy D's (helloooo McDonald's daddy!)

I can't remember how old your dc's are...the weekend (overnight) thing may not be appropriate at all depending on their age, and you could certainly argue for a significant amount of time that it isn't in dc's best interests to be introduced to daddy's gf so soon, bearing in mind what they have already endured at his hands

keep pushing to get him out (whether OW wants him there or not < tee hee > ) and keep telling everyone what a shit he is being

shine the spotlight on him, keep no secrets for him, he deserves nothing less than public condemnation for the way he has treated you

EvenBetter Tue 18-Sep-12 14:30:05

Well done McB!
I'm so glad you're no longer blaming yourself or feeling the way you were in your OP. Anger is an emotion that enables you to get things done and will make sure you don't take any crap.
How DARE he shout?! I agree with BlueG, next time he raises his voice the police should be called. He is disgusting and you're so much above his shit.

Fairyjen Tue 18-Sep-12 14:41:33

Wow!! Love it! Fuck dignity indeed almost wish I lived next door cause I would soon have him out the house! How is oldest dd feeling now? Did she hear awful way he spoke to her gran? He really is an arse! Is he really handsome? ( tryin to work out the attraction to be honest )

AnyFucker Tue 18-Sep-12 14:42:10

the way he is addressing your mum is unforgiveable (along with all the other unforgiveable shit he has done)

Fairyjen Tue 18-Sep-12 14:56:16

Can I ask, did you get any response from his boss? They work together etc I'm shocked it's allowed really given the circumstances.

Inertia Tue 18-Sep-12 15:02:15

You will never get any kind of reasonable or rational dialogue going with this man- about the house, the children, or anything.

He hates that your mum is there because it means there's a witness observing just how shittily he is treating you, and he cannot exert the level of control he wants to.

I don't know whether you have had legal advice yet, and I know I sound like a stuck record, but you have to get pro-active on this. You cannot reason out an amicable split with a man like this - he is just ramping up the threats .

OneMoreChap Tue 18-Sep-12 16:39:01

Good god - what a complete twat the man is. Sorry to hear that.
Keep getting the family round, and I hope you get rid of him pronto

[In passing, hard hmm at AnyFucker & one early midweek trip to Maccy D's (helloooo McDonald's daddy!) - lot of men who don't deserve it get that shit]

AnyFucker Tue 18-Sep-12 16:41:58

hard hmm right back atcha, OMC

I didn't say all men deserve it. I said this one does, as a natural consequence of his actions.

McBuckers Tue 18-Sep-12 16:45:31

No - dd didn't see how he spoke to my mum. She's been acting up for a while now. Rude and aggressive one minute, tearful the next, it's heartbreaking to see. I'm doing what I can to reassure her, but she knows something is going on and we need to sit down with her soon and explain the situation in gentle terms.

He is off his trolley. A few minutes after the discussion about him being in love with someone else and how sleeping with me made him feel sick and it's the only mistake he's made, he actually asked whether I'd like to watch Saturday's Dr Who with him this evening!!!!

OneMoreChap Tue 18-Sep-12 16:46:52

Nah, I'd never really hard hmm at you AF - too scared of you shooting yourself grin.

It's the term, I think rather than this slimebucket, who is performing like this in the house with his children having to have them elsewhere. He really seems not to have any redeeming feature. Obviously OW doesn't see him as much of a catch either/

Fairyjen Tue 18-Sep-12 16:53:22

Perhaps you should suggest sitting down and talking with dd tonight rather than watching dr who. Have you told school what's going on? Chin up babe x

AnyFucker Tue 18-Sep-12 17:23:27

Yes, I really like the idea that OW is waking up to the twat that he is too

ahhh, wouldn't that be sublime poetic justice ?

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 18-Sep-12 17:30:22

He sounds even worse sad

I would try and detach from him - don't engage with him at all unless its to do with arrangements for DC, no eye contact, nothing. All this drama must be really stressful for you and the DC sad There is a chance he is feeding off the drama of the whole thing - the tantrums, tears etc.

AnyFucker Tue 18-Sep-12 17:31:39

and please ensure he watches Dr who on his own

take the kids out somewhere

AnyFucker Tue 18-Sep-12 17:32:06

and please ensure he watches Dr who on his own

take the kids out somewhere, anywhere

I'd text the other woman and tell her to come and get him. What a loser.

And how dare he speak to your mother like that, the snidey little shitbag.

Doha Tue 18-Sep-12 20:28:10

I'D text the OW and tell her she is welcome to him that you don't want him. That you have had enough of him beggging for a second chance, declaring undying love etc....you want him gone
The see how she reacts when he tries to deny it. grin

But then l am an evil vendictive cow.................

he's desperate to be in control again - even if it is only to have the power to make you cry/react/be hurt (the it made me sick to sleep with you is exactly that isn't it? a desperate attempt to effect you). he tries the spiteful, vindictive tack and it doesn't get the desired effect so he tries the be nice, let's watch doctor who tack hmm

just keep making it clear he has no control over you anymore - you don't want his kindness, you see his nastiness for what it is and are not biting, you just want him gone. i think people like this give up when they realise they really do not have any power over you anymore and the game is up. their egos can't take being 'nothing'. he'll keep ramping it up looking for that reaction - don't feed him! starve him out.

he is saying atrocious stuff and being such an arsehole! he is showing he has zero respect for you or the children and i wonder if he really recognises that you are people - you know? not just little pawns in his universe.

Fairyjen Wed 19-Sep-12 08:16:29

Morning McB. How are you getting on re legal advice? Do you know if twunt has seen a solicitor?

Bluegingham Wed 19-Sep-12 10:48:09

Morning! How you doing? <waves>

alienreflux Wed 19-Sep-12 14:33:52

Hey McB how goes it today?

Bluegingham Wed 19-Sep-12 19:23:41

Hope you're ok. Please update us! X x.

Fairyjen Thu 20-Sep-12 10:26:01

Good luck today with legal advice! Please update us, all us yummy mummies are behind you! smile

Fairyjen Fri 21-Sep-12 10:09:56

Has this thread moved?

Bluegingham Fri 21-Sep-12 12:35:52

Please come back! Even if you'd had a reconciliation! Just want to know you're ok x x x

McBuckers Sat 22-Sep-12 18:50:42

No reconciliation. He still a twunt. He was supposed to come back this morning at 8am to take the kids swimming. Of course for the second week running shagging the girlfriend proved more important than his children.

My Gos he's such a loser.

Fairyjen Sat 22-Sep-12 18:57:18

Oh op! Your poor kids and you. Good to hear from you tho! Any joy with legal advice?

Bluegingham Sat 22-Sep-12 19:17:24

Phew you're alive! At lest he's being a consistent arsehole. That's marginally less of a head fuck isn't it?! grin

So did he just not show or did he contact you/them?

McBuckers Sat 22-Sep-12 19:34:08

Last week we didn't know where he was. DD1 left a tearful message on his answer phone asking where he was. This week he contacted us about 3 hours after he should have gown up saying he was sorry for being late.

He's now taken the eldest 2 out swim miming and to dinner. Bedtime for the youngest was half an hour ago and he's still not back. Obviously petty point scoring is more important to him than his children's well being.....

CremeEggThief Sat 22-Sep-12 19:43:46

:9 and angry on your behalf, McB. Your poor little DD...

CremeEggThief Sat 22-Sep-12 19:44:04

Sorry, should be sad.

Bluegingham Sun 23-Sep-12 19:57:28

How you doing now? Are you seeing solicitors this week? and is he at the OW's permanently?

bogeyface Sun 23-Sep-12 20:01:43

Text him "As you have not bought the kids back in time for bed, I assume that they are staying with you at your new home tonight. Please have them back in time for school in the morning."

I guarantee that they will be back within half an hour!

What a cock.

Fairyjen Sun 23-Sep-12 22:02:22

I think it's time to man up! This is really not fair on the kids and it's down to you to protect them from this kind of bullshit. It's emotional abuse, your kids cannot expect to see him and have him let them down. I think you need to put your foot down. They need clear routines and a clear understanding of what's going on (your oldest I know your others are too young). Sit down with dd and twunt. Explain about different types of family etc. tell her he is moving out and set a clear map of what tomes he will see her, call her and what activities they will do together etc. if he breaks this agreement then cut contact between him and the children. It's the only way. He needs to earn his time with them, not waste it.

Just my opinion tho smile

skyebluesapphire Sun 23-Sep-12 23:01:59

my STBXH was repeatedly late bringing DD back or picking her up and he just said I was being awkward if I said anything.

It took mediation for him to realise that it is in DD's interests to have regular times for bed etc and that we need to respect each other and that he needs to respect that i make arrangements for the one day that he has her..

if things continue this way, you may need to go through mediation

Bluegingham Wed 26-Sep-12 20:34:13

How is it going, MrsB?

bagofholly Sun 07-Oct-12 21:51:32

MrsB how are you?

McBuckers Mon 08-Oct-12 12:55:42

I'm okay. Still a bit up and down. He's moved out now with the OW and I'm putting the house on the market ASAP. His parents have stayed with me for the last few days and have been a great support, helping out with the kids etc. It's a bit awkward though because they obviously love their son but hate the situation.

Have started looking for houses to rent in my home town and am looking forward to having friends and family around me again.

It's going to be a tough few months but I know we'll get through this and be happier in the end.

Thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread and helped me get through this. thanks

DragonMamma Mon 08-Oct-12 13:43:00

Glad to hear that things are OK at the minute McB - I have been following your thread since the OP and was hoping you'd come back to update.

I'm glad he's finally moved out and that you have some support in place.

Be kind to yourself

CremeEggThief Mon 08-Oct-12 14:42:13

Thank you for the update. I was wondering how you were doing too.

Hugs.

McBuckers Fri 12-Oct-12 16:45:52

Well I've had two estate agents round and am putting the house on the market next week. Hurrah!

An old friend from uni has been in contact and seems to have romantic intentions - hurrah!

And this week my STBXH has missed our baby's first meal, her first teeth coming through and our eldest daughter getting star of the week at school - not so hurrah but he's chosen his path...

fiventhree Fri 12-Oct-12 16:54:14

Oh sodhim McB. He'll miss a lot more than that over time. I have been around long enough (ie have adult kids too) to see that they get their pay back in the long run for putting theirs kids last.

CremeEggThief Fri 12-Oct-12 16:58:29

Wow, McB, you don't hang about! grin

STBXH is the LOSER here! These excuses for men only ever put themeselves first.

McBuckers Fri 12-Oct-12 17:02:18

And they deserve to Fiventhree. He doesn't have to deal with the emotional torment the kids are going through, the constant "is daddy coming back?" questions, the tears, the clingyness, the tantrums. They deserve all the pay back they get.

I can forgive what he's done to me but I can't forgive what he's done to our children. My two year old panics now if I'm not in the same room as her and my six year old keeps coming into my bed at night because she feels sad. I hate him for it.

McBuckers Fri 12-Oct-12 17:13:16

I know cremeEggThief - I can't wait for the next chapter of my life to begin. I'm going back to my home town with friends and family I haven't seen for ages because the STBXH didn't like them. I'm so grateful to them for still being there for me.

And I'm really enjoying the stronger relationship I'm having with my kids. It's as though the bond between us is stronger because he's not here.

I'm actually beginning to feel sorry for him because he's missing out on so much.

CremeEggThief Fri 12-Oct-12 17:14:26

No feeling sorry for him now!!!

McBuckers Fri 12-Oct-12 17:22:36

Well I do a little, but he's chosen his path and although it may bring him a lot of pain further down the line, I'm not responsible for that.

CremeEggThief Fri 12-Oct-12 17:25:55

Exactly!

McBuckers Fri 12-Oct-12 19:51:04

Well he phoned to speak to the kids tonight, I had to really encourage them to speak to him and when they've were done he wanted to speak to me as though nothing had happened, then he seemed to realise that things had changed and said " I don't suppose you want to speak to me" to which I replied in a really happy voice "no not really, byeeeee". I really can't believe he's so oblivious to the pain and devastation he has caused.

CremeEggThief Fri 12-Oct-12 19:58:10

My STBXH is the exact same, in terms of being oblivious! He actually had the nerve to look sad when I said last week for all I know he could have been cheating on me for years. He certainly had the opportunity, as a long-term shiftworker. "Oh I never cheated on you before!" Cue shock face, as if I'm the bad guy!

Very well played, McB. wine

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 17:16:44

Well he came to take the kids out yesterday and had the cheek to tell me that he needed the car next Saturday so that he and the OW could go house hunting. Apparently he wants to live close by so he can see the children more often (looking forward to bumping into the two of them at Tesco). He got very cross when I refused. It seems he thought I should stay in all day with the three kids!

One of the houses they are looking at is just a couple of streets away and he can't see why I should have a problem with that.

What a tosser.

CremeEggThief Mon 15-Oct-12 17:58:06

Wanker! That's one thing I don't have to face, as STBXH took a job working away in London a year before he left me for O.W.

Are you planning to move away or stay put, or have you not decided yet?

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Mon 15-Oct-12 18:04:44

McB, you are seriously impressive

Crinkle77 Mon 15-Oct-12 18:12:05

Sorry but he is doing a classic man thing of pushing the balme for his affairs on to you. If there were problems why could he not talk to you so you could work through them instead of running off with someone else. In addtion you have 3 young children so he needs to stop behaving like a petulant child and realise that you are probably a bit frazzled and that the focus is not going to be on him all the time.

Doha Mon 15-Oct-12 18:18:34

good for you McB you have come so ar in such a short time.

Does he know you are planing on moving back and if so why is he moving closer to you.

Any chance he could but out your share of your current house?

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 20:23:13

Well this is the strange thing, he knows I'm moving back to my home town as soon as the house is sold and the estate agent reckons we'll get an offer within 4 to 6 weeks so I really don't understand why he's planning to move here when me and the kids should hopefully be gone within 4 months. But I guess it's not really my problem.

He wouldn't want to buy me out. He hates the town we live in.

I can't believe this is all happening when just 3 months ago he was telling me (and his mum) how happy he was...

CremeEggThief Mon 15-Oct-12 20:33:52

But if he hates that town, wtf is he house hunting there for? confused

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 20:50:55

Because that's where the kids are at the moment.

At the moment he wants to spend more time with them - not that he really bothered that much before he fucked off with another woman.

Doha Mon 15-Oct-12 21:02:56

FFS he is a twat--unbelievable, is he living in cloud coocoo land??

What happens when you move? is he going to follow you there too???

Doha Mon 15-Oct-12 21:03:47

cuckoo cuckoo lol blush

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 21:46:54

Well he said he will even though his commute to work will be around 2 hours each way and will therefore mean that by the time he gets back the kids will be in bed anyway.

I really don't think he's thinking straight at the moment.

Doha Mon 15-Oct-12 21:54:35

so have l got this right?
You are selling your house just as he is about to move nearby.
When you move he is following you there thus moving again?

Have l got this right ????

What bloody planet is he on.
<<<speechless for once >>>>

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 22:32:06

Yep Doha that's his grand plan!

Like I said, I don't think he's thinking straight at the moment...

guessing he doesn't really intend to any of it and is in some bizarre performance at present for ow's sake or your sake.

glad to see updates and really glad to hear you sounding so strong and clear mcB.

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 22:56:37

I wonder what his true intentions are - any thoughts swallowedafly?

anonacfr Mon 15-Oct-12 22:59:52

I would ignore whatever he tells you and go ahead with your plans. Maybe he's trying to guilt trip you by showing you how committed he is by living so close? It could all be part of a deluded head fuck.
Best response is to just proceed with your move, sell your house and ignore him.
He doesn't deserve you wasting time even thinking about him.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Mon 15-Oct-12 23:05:33

Never mind trying to guess what deluded fuckwittery he is currently planning

Do just what suits you and DC, and fuck him

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 23:12:14

Will definitely do what's best for us. Definitely wont be fucking him! smile

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Mon 15-Oct-12 23:16:25

Fuck someone else ? <hopeful>

That's not an offer btw.....

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 23:24:43

Well I think his behaviour has given me the green light to go and please myself - or get someone else to!!!

McBuckers Mon 15-Oct-12 23:33:16

It does naff me off though that while he's out having fun and shagging that stupid girl I'm at home having sleepless nights with a 4mth old baby, a toddler who keeps having bad dreams and a 6yr old who has become very clingy.

Doha Mon 15-Oct-12 23:56:44

But at the end of the day-you are the one who will share all the memories with your DC's.their first day at school, first teeth, boyfriends/girlriends etc. Your life will be enriched by these 3 little people in your life.
Twunt on the other hand is the loser, " every night at a party soon wears thin" he will get bored of this repetative empty life and the OW. He will miss out on his Dc's growing up, he is a part time dad.
McB you will never be lonely when you have the kids you ex on the other hand......

don't know really mcb and i wonder if he does. i would imagine at the minute he's doing whatever he thinks he's meant to do to look good - all the right noises or something. he hasn't got a script for this bit has he?

could be he's going along with what she thinks is what a good father would do in order to make the right noises to her, could be he's at the still territorial stage of they're my kids, i will be there, she needn't think she's getting rid of me that easy etc. could be he's treading water distracting her with ideas and plans buying time while he works out what he does want or keeps his options open. god knows. he's been living in a web of lies - lying to you, to her, to himself. i should imagine it's pretty tangled in there and there isn't much of him that is authentic at the minute.

but that's us getting in his head and we don't belong there really. you need to focus on you and the kids and what you want.

McBuckers Tue 16-Oct-12 14:20:34

Interestingly have just seen his last credit card bill. It seems that last month when he was 5 hours late to see the children he was in fact staying at the Holiday Inn Express near our house. The bill corresponds to a double room with breakfast.

The really lovely thing is that he would have walked past our house to get to the train station - where a friend of mine saw him walking in with another woman.

Nice one!

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 16-Oct-12 14:27:32

Now you know he is the kind of man prepared to put his "need" to have a morning shag before quality time with his DC sad

As for what's he is up to now, don't try to second guess his intentions/plans - you need to DETACH.

I hope you are getting all the legal advice you need.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 16-Oct-12 15:41:43

No big surprises, huh

McBuckers Tue 16-Oct-12 16:40:12

And to think I was so naive that I thought he was struggling back from her place on London transport to get back for his kids, when all the while he was 5 minutes away in a cheap hotel.

I wonder whether he pointed out our house to her on their way back to the train station "that's where my wife and kids are...".

I am SO angry.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 16-Oct-12 16:51:22

I'll bet

Fairyjen Tue 16-Oct-12 17:22:05

What a twat McB!

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 16-Oct-12 17:28:54

I would be livid too angry

McBuckers Tue 16-Oct-12 19:56:37

And tonight DD1 is devastated because when he came on Sunday he brought Peppa Pig cupcakes and said he'd made them himself, tonight - forgetting the lie he'd told - he said he'd go to the shop and buy some more. Poor DD1 can't believe her daddy lied to her.

McBuckers Tue 16-Oct-12 19:57:31

I fear the poor love has a steep earning curve ahead....

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Tue 16-Oct-12 21:39:26

earning curve, you say ? grin

CremeEggThief Wed 17-Oct-12 09:44:04

One of the hardest things to cope with of all this is when they don't step up and value and appreciate their DC in the way that they deserve. sad

McBuckers Wed 17-Oct-12 10:08:44

Exactly. This morning he was supposed to phone at 8am but didn't. DD1 just asked whether daddy was lying again when he said he'd phone

CremeEggThief Wed 17-Oct-12 10:59:11

That's heartbreaking, McB. Nothing these men do surprises me though. Their selfishness is breathtaking.

Oh McB, you have come a long way since the start of your thread, well done you!
I have been aghast at your STBX's attitude...you are going to have a much better life without him in it.

anonacfr Wed 17-Oct-12 13:27:19

Your poor DD. He's so obsessed with looking good to his own child that he made up a ridiculous and unnecessary lie.
He could have easily just said 'I saw those in the shops and thought of you' but that wouldn't have been good enough.
And when it comes to concrete actions as opposed to fluff, he can't even be fucked to call her when he said he would.
What a twat.

McBuckers Thu 18-Oct-12 17:35:14

Hurrah - the house is on the market!

Twunt is being a complete - well twunt - about the division of equity. My dad gave me a lot of money in 2007 and I used it to pay off twunt's student loan, overdraft and credit card and also paid about 30k off the mortgage. Yet now twunt is insisting on splitting the equity 50/50. I now it's what he's legally entitled to but seeing as he's the one who's buggering off with another woman and leaving me with 3 Kids I honestly thought he'd be a bit more reasonable - silly me!

CremeEggThief Thu 18-Oct-12 17:53:03

Argh! That fucking man must be the cheekiest ever! Do NOT let him have 50%! As far as I know, if you're not working or earn a lot less than him, you'll probably get at least 60%.

Post on legal matters for advice.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Thu 18-Oct-12 18:02:49

refer his ridiculous notions to your solicitor

do not engage

McBuckers Thu 18-Oct-12 18:16:23

I've told him I won't discuss this with him without having someone to mediate. I've suggested his father who is an honourable and decent man. Funnily enough STBXH is very unhappy with the suggestion, probably because he knows his dad would strongly encourage him to do the decent thing.

Doha Thu 18-Oct-12 18:40:26

Do you have any proo that you used the money to pay of his debts and a chunk of the mortgage?

the mortgage bit at least must be provable? do please get legal advice on all of this.

ZenNudist Thu 18-Oct-12 21:45:58

Delurking to wish you well in your new life. You're doing so well. There's going to be more pain and anger along the way. I wish you all the strength you will need to get you to the better life. Your STBXH will be his own punishment. Thank god you're shot of him.

McBuckers Thu 18-Oct-12 22:32:47

Well shot of him anyone who can be 5 and a half hours late to see his children because he's shagging the OW is a complete twat who doesn't desert the gift of fatherhood.

Kundry Fri 19-Oct-12 13:51:58

You don't mention your solicitor anywhere here - please, please say that you have one?

McBuckers Fri 19-Oct-12 15:47:09

I did get legal advice but have not yet appointed a solicitor. The solicitor at the legal clinic said he was entitled to half of the equity despite the money my dad gave me.

We read "mum and dad glue" with DD1 last night and talked about the book and our situation. It was so depressing and afterwards she cried and cried, which made me hate him more and more.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 19-Oct-12 15:52:05

That advice can't be right and I would get a different solicitor - find one who will fight for you and DC. As the main carer you should be entitled to far more than 50%.

I would post in the legal section on here for advice.

McBuckers Fri 19-Oct-12 17:59:02

Will do hotchoc - it doesn't seem fair that he swans off into the sunset with the OW using the money my dad gave me to help us build a better future for us and our children.

CremeEggThief Fri 19-Oct-12 18:34:20

No it fucking does not! angry

McBuckers Sun 21-Oct-12 09:58:47

OMG he and the OW are moving into a flat together in the town where I live on 1 December. Happy fucking Christmas.

CremeEggThief Sun 21-Oct-12 10:18:36

sad.
No shame at all.

McBuckers Sun 21-Oct-12 11:05:52

It feels like a knife through the heart. I can't believe this is all happening so suddenly. Two months ago on our anniversary he was talking about putting the past (his last affair) behind us and building a better future together. And two months later he's already signed up for a flat with his OW.

CremeEggThief Sun 21-Oct-12 11:28:44

He sounds as nuts as mine, who got engaged three months after he left me for her. Before I even filed for divorce. Before he even set up a postal redirection. angry

Hopefully you can sell the house quickly and move away. Or maybe you could even rent it out if it's not likely to sell quickly, and go back to your home town ASAP anyway?

It's the hassle of having to make these huge decisions and pick up all the pieces of our lives through no fault of our own that's one of the hardest things to deal with, I think.

McBuckers Sun 21-Oct-12 11:44:00

OMG CremeEggThief - did he actually marry her?

CremeEggThief Sun 21-Oct-12 11:52:36

If he has, he's a bigamist!

He only left in June, so I'm only a bit further along the road to recovery than you. I'm not filing for divorce until we agree on finances and until I'm ready. I'm in no hurry, after all....

McBuckers Sun 21-Oct-12 12:54:55

It's crap really isn't it? How are you doing CremeEggThief?

CremeEggThief Sun 21-Oct-12 13:37:56

Okay at the moment, thanks. That's not to say there won't be other setbacks ahead...

For example, he promised he would pay to relocate us when he first left, and now I have found a house that's smaller, cheaper and far more convenient for the school, local amenities and city centre, I don't see him keeping his word. And I don't feel like even asking him, because I don't want to go through more anger and resentment a week before DS and I go on a much-deserved holiday.

McBuckers Sun 21-Oct-12 15:14:39

Does it get easier? Has only been 7 wks since I found out about the OW and it's still as raw as it was.

CremeEggThief Sun 21-Oct-12 15:32:24

I think you're saying that, because of the latest bombshell, McB. You have made an amazing amount of progress in such a short space of time.

It is easier for me, in some ways, as he lives so far away, so I only really think of or have to deal with him every other weekend. Also, I hadn't felt "in love" with him for a long time before the marriage ended, so I had probably disengaged quite a lot already. My anger, pain and sadness is about how he chose to go and line up someone else and give me no say or choice, so it's more about how it ended, rather than it is .

You will get there! You are getting there smile.

McBuckers Sun 21-Oct-12 17:53:40

Well he's brought the kids back and we've had a bit of a barny. He can't see why I have an issue with him bringing the other woman to the town where me and the kids live.

He dropped them back and then decided he needed to go to the shop (he usually stays til bedtime on Sundays) so I made him take all three to the shop with him. He wasn't happy as the younger two were grumpy. But I thought at no time in my week with the kids do I get to go to the shop without at least 2 kids. Cue another barny.

I can't wait until he picks them up from the front door and drops them off again at the front door, coming in and playing happy families is far too stressful.

bagofholly Sun 21-Oct-12 18:25:09

So you currently both live in Town A, but you're moving back to your home town near your family, town B, and he's signed for a flat in Town B too?

He's a proper tosser isn't he? When I read your updates I'm always relieved he's still with OW and hasn't had second thoughts and gone on a charm offensive as he would only hurt you again if he did.

McBuckers Mon 22-Oct-12 02:24:56

Actually I'm in town A trying to get back to town B. him and her are moving to town A. Which means I'm now trying to get back to town B ASAP.

bagofholly Mon 22-Oct-12 08:04:55

Ah I see! Well, if he signs for a flat for a year, he'll be awful annoyed if you're in townB won't he?! Mwah ha ha!

and he fully deserves some, 'mwah haha!'

and at least this way it is clear that he has abandoned the family home and set up home elsewhere - i suspect that works in your favour in terms of getting the house.

ShellyBobbs Mon 22-Oct-12 10:58:41

What a toss pot!

McBuckers Mon 22-Oct-12 12:03:11

Have got a viewer coming to see the house today. Am praying they put an offer in.

DD2 woke up in the night again last night. It always seems to happen when daddy visits. When she got up this morning she searched the house for him like she does after every visit. It's hard to make a 2yr old understand that daddy isn't coming back to live with her any more.

CremeEggThief Mon 22-Oct-12 12:40:48

Good luck with the viewing! Let us know how you get on smile.

McBuckers Tue 23-Oct-12 02:15:45

No word from the viewer yet but fingers crossed....

STBXH sent a PowerPoint presentation of the pictures he took when he went out with the kids on Sunday and asked that I showed it to the kids before they went to bed. Obviously he has no bloody idea that it will just lead to the "where's daddy?" conversation. Again.

Oh well I guess it makes him look like a good dad - "hey I might shag other women when my wife is pregnant and just had a baby but I care enough to do a PowerPoint presentation"....

McBuckers Tue 23-Oct-12 02:57:52

Hurrah have found a house to rent in my home town! Now just need to bag it before anyone else does!

CremeEggThief Tue 23-Oct-12 08:08:46

Go for it, McB. Hope you get it! Xxx

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 23-Oct-12 08:43:58

FIngers crossed for the new house smile

I hope you didn't show the PPP to the kids - not your responsibility and I doubt he would do the same for you. Wanker angry

Well done McB, well done, really hope you get the house!

As for powerpoint presentation, it is not your responsibility to do his fathering for him. Your responsibility is to your children's well-being ONLY, and if showing them that before they sleep is going to cause them problems then you simply can't do it. It is not for you to make things easier for this man, ESPECIALLY if in doing that, your children are unsettled and unhappy.

McBuckers Tue 23-Oct-12 10:21:20

And now he has emailed to say that he wants us to spend Christmas Day together. Obviously told him to go to hell on that one!

CremeEggThief Tue 23-Oct-12 10:53:55

Oh this man!!!

ShellyBobbs Tue 23-Oct-12 12:15:35

I repeat, what a toss pot!

I would tell him this:

You have OPTED OUT. You have CHOSEN for it to be like this. Stop trying to get me to make it all smoother for your sake. I will never do anything for YOUR SAKE, ever again.

McBuckers Tue 23-Oct-12 13:08:37

I did. I said he could pick the children up at 3pm and take them to his flat, returning them on Boxing Day evening.

His problem is that he hasn't got a car and that the OW will be there and will have to leave the flat until the children have gone.

I suggested car hire and the Holiday Inn Express.

How dare he fly in like a bloody pigeon, shit all over us and leave again to go back to the other woman!

Quite McB, quite.

My XH has only ever had our children on Boxing Day, never on Christmas day. As a child I had to go to my father's on Christmas day and we (my brothers and I) ended up having two Christmas dinners, one at lunchtime with our mother and one in the evening at our father's. Our parents would usually have some kind of a row when our father came to pick us up sad.

It was all too much, too tense, and for that reason I never put my children through the same thing. Luckily my XH never made a fuss about this and one year we all had christmas lunch together (several years down the line and with XH's second wife too). It was ok, but my children didn't enjoy it as much as the two separate days, so we never repeated it.

CremeEggThief Tue 23-Oct-12 16:07:41

That's more than generous of you, McB. Not many women would agree to that in your circumstances, especially in the first year. I don't think I'll ever agree to DS spending Christmas Day with his dad, although I might if it was more of a shared care arrangement instead of one night every other weekend.

And it still isn't enough for the bastard! angry

McBuckers Tue 23-Oct-12 16:23:04

Well I thought it was fair but apparently I'm being selfish and not doing what's best for the children!

Surely adultery when your wife is pregnant and again when she's just had a baby is the epitome of selfishness, as is turning up 5 hours late to see your children because you're shagging the OW at a Holiday Inn Express 5mins walk from the family home.

Where is the lovely man I married!

ShellyBobbs Tue 23-Oct-12 16:25:55

Sounds like she might not even be around on Christmas day and he's shitting himself?

CremeEggThief Tue 23-Oct-12 17:09:10

How bloody dare he! angry

McBuckers Tue 23-Oct-12 20:26:35

DD1 saw the "For Sale" board outside our house and went to pieces. I tried to explain it to her last night and she appeared to be okay with it - cried at first but then was quite excited about the thought of a new house where she doesn't have to share a room with DD2. But as soon as she saw the board tonight she cried and cried. I feel so bad for her. And her twunt of a father has no idea what she is going through at the moment.

McBuckers Tue 23-Oct-12 20:28:37

I really feel like spitting some vitriol on the "hollow laugh from the OW" thread. Am barely containing myself.

MyDonkeysAZombie Tue 23-Oct-12 20:39:15

Forgive me is this "set pieces" Dad again, if so he is used to picking the choice bits of parenting isn't he. Drops a bomb on family life not once but twice yet tries to wheedle his way into sharing Christmas.

GeekLove Tue 23-Oct-12 21:46:33

Spit away my dear! It is what we are hear for. I remember earlier on in this thread and you are SO much more stronger now. What sort of things do you and DCs like to do but which he hates? Now is the time to do that!

McBuckers Thu 25-Oct-12 16:23:29

Well twunt is here picking up the kids.

He's showing them the PowerPoint presentation of the photos from their trip out on Sunday, but not before telling the children that mummy wouldn't let them watch it.

He's also trying to argue about the Christmas arrangements in front of the children!

Grrrrrr

CremeEggThief Thu 25-Oct-12 16:31:35

He has no right to undermine you like that, McB.

I know your DC are very young, but is there any way he can have contact without coming in?

Any news on the viewing/rental house btw?

Tell him if he continues complaining he can have them on Boxing Day instead because you have been given to understand you are actually being incredibly tolerant under the circumstances.

Is there a half way/mutual place he could get the kids so you don't have to see him or let him in?

McBuckers Thu 25-Oct-12 16:39:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fiventhree Thu 25-Oct-12 22:21:10

McB, Im sorry he is still showing how vile he is. I think it may be worth saying to him that if he raises issues in front of them to wrongfoot you, or makes snidey comments, you wont meet him in the house but at the door, or even through a third party.

You do not have to take this type of treatment, and it would be a good boost to your self esteem, and good practice, to not let it happen in future. You might like to point out to him that this would inconvenience him more than being polite and reasonable would.

Who the hell does he think he is?

McBuckers Fri 26-Oct-12 01:12:40

He is vile. I tried to make myself scarce by sitting in the garden away from him but he just came and found me and started shouting in my face.

He's completely re-writing history now, he's now saying that he didn't go out with her on our baby's due date and didn't sleep with her until we'd separated when he's admitted doing both previously and I found the evidence to prove it.

He keeps calling her his "new" partner a point I always correct with "affair" partner.

He's so angry that I'm moving to my home town even though when he suggested they were both moving to the town where me and the kids are I told him me and the kids would move so we wouldn't have the issue of bumping into them when the kids are there.

I think he's basically angry that he can't control me any more. I always used to give in to him. Not any more.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 26-Oct-12 07:09:58

Yes you are right - he has lost control of you so he is angry now.

Because your DC are witnessing his nasty outbursts, you should do handovers at the door - have everything ready at the door. He should not be able to get inside or go in your garden. Or will a friend or neighbour be able to stay with you during handovers?

McBuckers Fri 26-Oct-12 07:23:36

His parents are down over half term and he wouldn't dare start anything in fron of them.

I'm to blame too because when he starts I don't walk away.

CremeEggThief Fri 26-Oct-12 11:01:31

No you're not to blame for any of this...

McBuckers Fri 16-Nov-12 18:54:11

Thank you everyone for your supportive messages. I've now found a house in my home town and will be moving into it before Christmas.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want him to come home and for us to be a family again but I think once we're in our new home I'll be able to move on and start a new life for me and my beautiful children.

Onwards and upwards I guess...

Doha Fri 16-Nov-12 19:41:34

Good luck McB...

New house, new start. Don't look back the best is yet to come

Keep posting and let us know how your getting on

McBuckers Tue 20-Nov-12 03:30:12

Had a text argument with husband this evening. He phoned for the children - like he does every evening - and as sometimes happens, neither wanted to speak to him. I encouraged them to talk but they wouldn't, so from my POV I'd done my bit.

He then texted me to say that when the kids don't want to speak to him he wants me to give him a report of everything they've done that day.

I said no and that if he wanted to know what the kids were up to every day he should be here and if he doesn't want to be here he can find out what they've been up to when he visits them.

Am I being unreasonable?

DistanceCall Tue 20-Nov-12 04:22:23

Not in the least, McBuckers.

"he wants me to give him a report of everything they've done that day".

Who the fuck does he think he is? Your headmaster? Your line manager? You are a grownup, and you don't owe him anything. NOTHING AT ALL.

Perhaps he should start to wonder why his children won't talk to him.

FFS, what an utter git.

Abitwobblynow Tue 20-Nov-12 06:46:27

McB, involve your FIL at all parts of negotiations. My instinct is to keep his parents on your side (don't badmouth him to them), because his Dad will probably be the only one he will not want to cross.

And, you must get a solicitor.

Practise some broken record (you know, saying nothing but the same thing in reply to WHATEVER he says):

you fired me as your wife
you chose this
it is not up to me to manage your parenting
this is the freedom you chose

etc.

DO NOT ENGAGE. McB, he is not interested in you. How you think, what you feel, how you hurt, what you want. If you try and get him to hear you, do you know how many times you will fail? Every single time. 100% failure rate, don't set yourself up for hurt. (BTDT too many times).

Just like it takes two to make a marriage, it actually takes two to talk. He doesn't want to listen, and he wants to blame you. So do not engage at all. Do not let him into the house, meet him at Maccy D's or the park for handovers.

Always remembering: you chose this.

McBuckers Tue 20-Nov-12 07:52:51

Good advice Wobbly.

I feel like he's still trying to control things, and trying to paint himself as some sort of victim when I assert my boundaries.

He said that he'd like to see the kids more often but that he'd "been given his days". He sees them on Sundays and Thursday afternoons and the reason he can't see them more is because of his job, not because I'm preventing contact.

When I move drop off and pick ups will be done at the front door by a friend of mine who lives round the corner so I will no longer have to see him.

I don't want to be a bitch about things because I think there's still a part of me that would like him to come back so that we can be a family together again, but on the other hand I don't want to put his needs before my own, that's not my job any more.

McBuckers Tue 04-Dec-12 12:44:16

Well my STBXH moved into his shag pad with his OW Sunday. It feels a bit weird knowing they're shacked 5 mins down the road. He phoned DD1 up that night and in his jolliest voice "guess where daddy is? I'm in X [name of our town], isn't that great!" DD1 got quite tearful and he honestly had no idea why she would be upset knowing that he's just down the road with OW instead of in the family home.

He's coming to move the rest of his stuff out tonight. Am not looking forward to that.

Have thoughtfully included in his boxes all the anniversary cards he sent me saying how happy he was, how every year just got better etc etc. maybe that will jog his bloody memory!

Doha Tue 04-Dec-12 19:56:09

when are you planning your move McB?

I would be tempted to put in a bottle of wine in the box with a thank you card to the OW--thanks for setting me free, he is yours for keeps you have my undying gratitude and sympathy.smile

McBuckers Tue 04-Dec-12 23:23:10

We're moving on 20 December.

He was here tonight to see the kids. He didn't sign the contracts for the house sale, didn't move his stuff out and was vile.

He kicked me me on purpose and pretended he was merely standing up after crouching down at DD2's cot and then shouted that I was an unfit mother.

Am so angry with him.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Tue 04-Dec-12 23:29:22

He is a vile bastard

If you bruise from the kick, get it photographed and press charges. This jumped-up little fuckwit needs to feel some consequnces for his actions.

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 05-Dec-12 09:52:07

angry

Fucking bastard.

Yes, I would make him feel the consequences - grrr!!

Dump everything in bin bags and leave outside for him to collect. Do not allow him INSIDE your home. He has to take the kids out if he wants to see them. He has abused you and your good nature for far too long!!

Doha Wed 05-Dec-12 09:58:45

Don't allow him back in the house to collect stuff unless you have someone with you. He can collect DC's at the door.
2 weeks McB and you will be settling into your new home and life in time for xmas.
New year new start.
Do not allow him into your new home at all. That will be your personal space after all would you be invited into hos new pad with OW eugh!!!!!!!!!
She can have his shitty boxers and smelly socks you have lovely DD's--you are the winner in all this.
Anger is wasted on him please do not put yourself in a situation where you are alone with him again

cakehappy Wed 05-Dec-12 12:50:33

What a fking Twat. Loser. Dont let him in the house again, without someone there, and get rid of his shit by dumping it at the shagpad. He is completely absolving himself of any responsiblity as he can't deal with the truth of what he has done and is freaked out that you aren't the timid shell you used to be. He was so unfaithful to you, he broke this marriage up, he didn't want you but he never expected you to set boundaries and stick to them. Well done you. He's an arse, well pissed off on your behalf. Tell his dad of his obnoxious behaviour if he keeps it up.

McBuckers Fri 07-Dec-12 06:16:14

Well he signed the papers for the house sale last night. I just feel so broken. He's asking when he can introduce the children to the OW. I'd prefer to wait but I don't think I have any fight left in me. We originally agreed six months but now they've moved into their own place they obviously want to start playing happy families with my children as soon as possible.

I spent mot of the night crying. I just want him to come home.

McBuckers Fri 07-Dec-12 18:02:50

And just to top off a great week our cat was hit by a car this morning and died.

Went to the Dr and got some citalopram today. Not really coping very well.

SomethingProfound Fri 07-Dec-12 18:19:59

McB I've been reading your thread since it began, just keep thinking 13 more days and then your out of that house and into a new one and a fresh start, with your wonderful

Keep strong, think how far you have come!

SomethingProfound Fri 07-Dec-12 18:20:49

Sorry should say and your wonderful DD's

redtulip68 Fri 07-Dec-12 19:26:24

McB, I fully understand the feelings you are having. My STBXH left 9 months ago and there isnt a day that goes by when I dont think about him. There are times when I wish for the sake of everything we had previously been through and for our DC that he would come back but the truth is if he were to come back it would never work.

You and I are both greiving for the future we believed we have lost but a new clearer, brighter and more loving future is only around the corner. The bond you will develop with your DC will be greater than anything he can ever dream of. Every day my children tell me how special I am and how much they love me - he never gets that.

Take care X

jingleallthespringy Sat 08-Dec-12 13:45:22

I'm so sorry to hear about your cat. the ADs will help a lot - you've been through so much in the past few months. Well done, you have been an inspiration. I hope you can move soon and this horrible part will be behind you for good. xx

Tuesday: "He kicked me me on purpose and pretended he was merely standing up after crouching down at DD2's cot and then shouted that I was an unfit mother.
Am so angry with him. "

Friday: "I spent mot of the night crying. I just want him to come home. "

You have a long, long list of reasons not to want him home. You really want this foul man back?

CremeEggThief Sat 08-Dec-12 21:41:23

Oh McB. I didn't realise your thread was still going. I was wondering how you are getting on.

Very, very soon, you will be starting afresh, with more support, and far away from your horrid ex. Stand your ground over the six months and make sure he does all the travel for future contact. You owe him NOTHING.

So sorry about your cat too sad.

XXX

Hi McB- just checking in, not long now till you move to your new house & hopefully a better future.

Glad you got the AD's they do just help you keep it together while you are going through this shite. The cat must have been the final straw <<hugs>>

McBuckers Mon 17-Dec-12 18:40:51

Well we're nearly packed and I picked up the keys to our new home today.

Seems so weird - four months ago he was saying how he wanted to build a better future for us and here we are now going our separate ways. Seems so sad.

He's getting angry about contact now. Up til now he's seen the kids Thursday evenings and Sundays and I've let him come into the family home and play happy families - reading the kids stories and putting them to bed, I've let him use the family car on Sundays to take them out (even though he never puts petrol in it). I feel I've been very reasonable under the circumstances.

When we move to the new house I've said he can have the children every other weekend and as many nights during the week as he wants. But because of his job and because he will be living an hour away from us once we have moved he's trying to insist on every other weekend plus Sundays on the weekends he doesn't have them. This would leave me with two Saturdays a month with the kids to take them out (as DD1 is at school all week). I'm refusing his proposed arrangement because of this - am I being unreasonable?

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Mon 17-Dec-12 18:47:47

The standard is every other weekend and a midweek evening. He shall have to be happy with that.

I wouldn't accept a Sunday contact on his "off" weekend...it mucks up "your" free time with the kids.

McBuckers Mon 17-Dec-12 19:28:26

Well that's what I thought. He's threatening solicitors but I've got him on email admitting to driving the kids over the drink drive limit, and have evidence of him not turning up to see the kids because he was with the OW.

I don't want to be a bitch about this but I can't help feeling that I get the Mon to Fri stress of school runs and sleepless nights with the baby and then he trolls up to be fun daddy whenever it suits.