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How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time :-)

(993 Posts)
skyebluesapphire Sat 25-Aug-12 17:42:34
DoingItForMyself Sat 25-Aug-12 19:38:17

Hello! I'll be here (when I'm not on FB!) xxx

skyebluesapphire Sat 25-Aug-12 20:32:45


Bunnyjo Sat 25-Aug-12 20:45:33

Hello! Mainly a lurker on your thread, but showing support. Hope you're well, it sounds like the MM show was just the tonic you needed!

skyebluesapphire Sun 26-Aug-12 00:40:00

OK. So I'm not eating an elephant, but I am fishing.....

Set up a profile on POF. Had loads of response, just chatting to a bloke at the mo. Am worried he will turn out to be a perv though! He's already asked about webcam, is that normal or is he a perv?!

tribpot Sun 26-Aug-12 00:43:35

Perv. Next case! <gavel>

skyebluesapphire Sun 26-Aug-12 01:25:48

lol. He asked me if I wanted to see him stroking his dick. i said NO and shut him off, lol.

I only wanted a friendly chat with somebody... Im guessing the fact that its gone 1am says it all really....

Just found somebody I know on there so have sent him a friendly Hi, just to say hello, not to chat him up! Although he would be good, he's 35, got a little girl, self employed carpenter and I know his dad and he is lovely. LOL. see, in my head I've married him already grin.

Im so NOT cut out for this internet dating shit!

sadwidow28 Sun 26-Aug-12 03:35:57

I wish you well Skye - but I can't read or offer you any further support on this new thread.

If you are happy exploring POF and engaging with unknown people, I hope that you will have enough wit to keep yourself anc DD safe.

skyebluesapphire Sun 26-Aug-12 08:13:08

Sadwidow - I am only doing what a friend suggested as a way of meeting somebody. I live in a very small place and don't have much social life. They suggested online dating as they met their H that way. Lots of people do online dating now yet you appear to be saying that I'm a bad person for doing so.

I'm not ready for a new relationship until I can believe that not all men are lying bastards so I don't think POF is going to be right for me!

I am not going to put myself or my DD in any danger. From what I have seen so far they all seem to be a bunch if weirdos so I don't think I'll be on it for much longer.... I don't think that POF is the site for me.

skyebluesapphire Sun 26-Aug-12 08:24:04

To make it clear, I did not webcam, he asked and I said I dudn't have one. But he said I could still look at him and then started talking about my boobs and his dick. I shut him off immediately as its not what I'm after.

I had a laugh about it because it's either that or cry and I'm sick of crying over the twat who left me.

Mrsgorgeous Sun 26-Aug-12 08:24:11

Hello sky, we have "chatted" can check out my post to jog your memory!

Well, I have also joined POF and take most of it with a pinch of salt. However it is entertaining. There are so many false profiles on there it's untrue. Saying that, have you been on the forums? There are interesting topics being discussed and you might find someone interesting there.
I thought that I might have been ready to date and that's why I joined. It has helped me realise that I'm not!

Midwife99 Sun 26-Aug-12 08:26:09

Yes avoid webcams honey but Internet dating is now the most common & normal way to meet people! I do think you get a better class of man if he has been prepared to pay for membership somewhere like & POF is free, but as long as you don't give out your address & home phone number until you've met someone a few times & always date in public places, how is it unsafe?!!

DoingItForMyself Sun 26-Aug-12 10:19:14

I had a laugh about it because it's either that or cry and I'm sick of crying over the twat who left me.

Exactly Skye, its a giggle and a totally 'normal' way for people to meet potential new partners. We know POF isn't the most upmarket site, but its free, so we can have a laugh on there without spending loads of money only to find out there are a lot of tossers out there!

There are some nice guys online and its a matter of fine-tuning the twunt radar to sift out the rubbish from the rest. In the meantime, meeting a couple of guys for a coffee and a chat is a great way to spend the odd half hour and it gets you back into the mindset that you are a woman, not just a mum or a wife/ex-wife.

Having been on a couple of 'dates' so far it really has helped my confidence to know that I can still hold a conversation, that I'm interesting enough for someone to actually want to talk to me (years of XH avoiding spending time with me made me doubt that) and it means that when you do meet someone lovely you've got something to compare him to!

Xales Sun 26-Aug-12 10:36:36

Nothing wrong with having a laugh on POF or any other dating sites. As long as you remember the basic safety rules.

Just remember these people are complete strangers. Most of the time you meet friends of friends or people through work so chances are they have been a little vetted if that makes sense. Not that some of them don't turn out to be complete nasty wankers of course.

I have read somewhere that you should meet someone off these sites pretty fast for coffee, broad day light, public place blah blah... That way you have not had loads of chats and have not built up expectations and it is easier to walk away if you feel they are wrong for you. Rather than if you have invested several months getting to know their on line personality.

My boyfriend is not based in the same country as me so we do a lot of webcam stuff blush We did it before we met in person although we had know each other 18 months or so through on line games before that.

I don't think there is anything wrong with webcam stuff. I treat it the same as any other sexual activity. The same as one night stands, oral, anal, bondage etc As long as you are comfortable there is nothing wrong. If you are not don't do it. If a man pushes you to do these things then he is not the one for you, say thanks and move onto the next one.

Men asking after 10 minutes chat is a little creepy though. After a few hours is it any different to chatting to a bloke in a bar having a few drinks and going back to his place?

You need to get out of the mind set of planning your next marriage though grin

Take it with a pinch of salt and have a laugh. I find chatting on line or playing games much more fun than sitting watching depressing Eastenders or Coronation Street alone after DS is in bed.

delilahlilah Sun 26-Aug-12 13:14:58

I haven't been following but just wanted to share my experience. I hope that's ok?

I don't know if any exist now, but some dating sites had chat rooms. I was once a member of one of these and although I met DH elsewhere, I met female friends there who I am still in touch with 8 years later. I even went on holiday with 3 of them, and it was fantastic. Maybe try and find one with a chat room or message boards as you will get to know personalities a little from posts / chats and if nothing else you may find some new friends who are feeling a little like you are. It's usually quite easy to spot the 'undesirables'! I wish you well.

DoingItForMyself Sun 26-Aug-12 14:09:42

When I think about some of the daft situations I put myself in as a teenager/20 something it makes me shudder. POF is pretty tame in comparison.

Luckily I only had a couple of minor incidents (well, if you count being Rohipnol-ed (sp?) as minor - I can't remember what happened so it has no impact on me mentally, but it made me a bit more sensible afterwards I can tell you.)

I think that meeting someone in a bar when you're drunk and your defences are down because you're having fun and feeling optimistic, is far more dangerous than being in the safety of your own home and having some perv offer to show you his dick on the webcam.

skyebluesapphire Sun 26-Aug-12 22:26:48

Is drunk and having a good time at friend BBQ :-)))))))

tribpot Sun 26-Aug-12 22:30:48

I like the simple efficiency of just posting your Facebook status here, skye wink

Drink plenty of water when you get home! Vodka is not water, just the same colour.

skyebluesapphire Mon 27-Aug-12 00:51:05

Lol. I'm silly drunk lol. Got home at 00.30, just put DD to bed! Asleep immediately! Am I a bad mother?! But all friends kids still there snd it's a complete one off!!!

Been sat around a fire and having a lovely chat with people. Have really enjoyed myself and decided life is good and I am going to be fine :-))

PedanticPanda Mon 27-Aug-12 01:07:30

What is POF?

izzyizin Mon 27-Aug-12 01:24:59

Plenty of Fish, Panda. It's an online dating site of the married 'slob seeks fuck meaningful relationship no timewasters' variety grin

<<dons asbestos suit>>

skyebluesapphire Mon 27-Aug-12 01:32:24

Lol at Izzy. Yes, it's not for me , lol. Although having said that I have been exchanging messages with a guy and we have talked about life in general and his dog, lol. Maybe I found a normal one?!

I'm certainly not thinking I will meet anybody on there seriously. Still in the "all men are bastards" phase anyway, lol.

It's nice to chat to people but pervs need not apply...

izzyizin Mon 27-Aug-12 01:44:53

Dogs are a good sign, skye. A man who's good to his dog(s) is usually good to know and have as a friend.

skyebluesapphire Mon 27-Aug-12 02:32:16

Haha, he seems ok so far lol. Just been chatting to a 28 yo fireman, think he's too young for me though, lol. He likes older women but I don't think I'm cut out to be a cougar grin

It's just nice to chat to somebody who seems normal (so far!)

izzyizin Mon 27-Aug-12 02:44:36

There's not much to gain in being a cougar. Be a man-eating tigress -and spit them out--

Midwife99 Mon 27-Aug-12 07:35:10

Yeah just have fun & then if you do want to meet someone just remember, you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince but in there somewhere is the odd prince!

DoingItForMyself Mon 27-Aug-12 10:20:23

Think Izzy's description of POF is possibly a little harsh! I have met a couple of quite nice blokes on there. You do have to sift through the crap to find anyone vaguely sensible, but they do exist!

LouP19 Mon 27-Aug-12 10:27:53

Hello Skye, just to offer my support. You've been so kind to me on my threads. Hope you enjoyed your bbq yesterday.

I looked at POF last week with a friend, had a bit of a laugh! I did internet dating years ago (before I met my STBXH) and although I didn't have any proper relationships from it, it was a good confidence booster and helped me gain some dating experience.

Mrsgorgeous Mon 27-Aug-12 11:26:52

Ha ha...I just had a message/s from someone on there who reckoned he had 30 racehorses and a boat.
3/4 th message was that he could take me to the races and book us into a hotel for the night.....then we could go away for a weekend on his they really believe we are so naive????
Entertaining! Plonker

izzyizin Mon 27-Aug-12 12:43:55

30 racehorses and a boat, eh, Mrsg? Is his name Aga Khan? hmm

I suspect his name's Del Boy and what you'll get if you take up his offer is a trip to a donkey derby, a night in a sleazy b&b, and a row round the local duckpond in a leaky dinghy + a cocktail with an umbella at some point in the proceedings grin

I daresay there are some genuine nuggets in amongst the pyrite but I'm not about to go prospecting on POF, even though some have reported here that they struck gold and found their dhs/dps on that site.

skyebluesapphire Mon 27-Aug-12 14:22:35

It's just a bit of fun, it's certainly taking my mind off the mediation on Thursday. I'm not a violent person but I'm not sure I can sit in the same room as him without wanting to punch him in the face.

The guy that seemed nice is now offering me a back massage and the 28 year old fireman wants to meet up. No doubt he's just after a shag which I made quite plain I was not up for, lol. But it's giving me a laugh and a smile on my face.

skyebluesapphire Tue 28-Aug-12 18:01:09

Had a lovely day at the zoo today, used Clubcard vouchers to get in free:-)

Feeling more and more nervous about the mediation. I really don't want to be in the same room as him, I hate him so much.

If i do something to annoy DD, she keeps telling me that she wont love me ever again until Daddy comes back. I just tell her that he won't be back :-(

Xales Tue 28-Aug-12 18:06:03

Children are evil buggers who really know how to hit you where it hurts.

I would just say to her with a breezy 'that's a shame I still love you' and then carry on as usual.

Leave daddy out of it from your side.

Yep, a bright "I will always love you, no matter what" and keep on with whatever you're doing is the way, I'm afraid.

If it wasn't "until Daddy comes back" it would be something else hurtful. Hang on in there!

skyebluesapphire Tue 28-Aug-12 18:37:44

I do always say to her that I love her no matter what. I don't know what else to say other than the truth that he won't be back.

He is off on holiday on Tuesday. My counsellor said that he should tell her himself that he won't be around next week as its unfair for me to have to deal with it...

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 12:25:26

I'm really really dreading the mediation tomorrow. I don't want to sit in the same room as him and I don't want to talk to him. I don't want to cry in front of him, but know that I probably will. (Although my solicitor did say that one main benefit of mediation is that you are sat in front of them and can make them feel guilty...).

I hate him so much, especially for what he has done to DD. I know that I need to sit there and be reasonable, but I simply dont want to speak to him, but know that I have to. AARRGGHH!!

tribpot Wed 29-Aug-12 12:56:03

Can you take anyone with you (such as your mum) or does it have to be you, him and the mediator? I guess the point is for it just to be the three of you with no outside influences.

Are you allowed to prepare a statement to read out? I just wonder if it might help calm you down if you knew you could say a few things completely calmly at the beginning.

I agree with Tribpot make do a written statement even just to keep you focused one the point being discussed.

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 13:44:24

Yeah I need to put the main points down don't I, so I know what to talk about.

It is only me him and mediator. I just hate him. He will sit there and say I've stopped him seeing DD and I will say he chose not to have her in holidays and we will get nowhere without their help....

Proudnscary Wed 29-Aug-12 13:51:29

I understand how you feel but you need to stop telling yourself how much you hate him, get a grip, stay calm, be a grown up.

Hard as it is, stop telling yourself 'I hate him, I hate him' and replace with the mantra 'this is for dd, this is for dd'.

Try to be more open to this and stay as calm as you can.

The whole point of this is to have a neutral place to properly iron out details and arrangements for your daughter.

I kind of agree about writing things down - but only so you know the main points you want to discuss...I don't think you should read out a whole list of complaints or hit him with a character assassination.

very good advice, proud - if you go in there with the intention of being so damn calm and reasonable that you are utterly above reproach, and of doing the very best you can for your daughter, you'll feel MUCH more in control than if you go in there thinking "I hate him."

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 17:21:21

Oh I intend to be very calm and let him state exactly what his problems and issues are and then explain why I feel that he is letting his DD down by not seeing her during the school holidays and not committing to a regular day in the week.

He hasnt turned up again this week or rung her. She is now asking how many sleeps til she sees him again. He needs to know what this is doing to her.

I dont intend to attack him, physically or verbally. I just dont like him, I cant stand him near me, I don't want to talk to him but I know I have to.

tribpot Wed 29-Aug-12 17:37:06

I think as far as possible, skye, you need to present this as 'the' problems, not 'his' problems. So for example, 'the' problem is that your DD needs to have consistent and regular contact with her father and so far this has proven difficult to arrange. 'The' problem is that your dd was available to see more of a her father during the school holidays but this opportunity was not taken up.

I suspect that he is going to say things like he feels contact is made more difficult than it needs to be because you have been prescriptive about times and about who can come with him to drop her off. He may state (although I'm not sure it's true?) that you did not wish him to have overnight contact whilst he was staying with friends. I think he almost certainly will say you have texted and spoken to him in a way that could best be described as angry and at worst abusive on a number of occasions and he feels too intimidated as a result of this to challenge your 'rules' around access for fear that you will withdraw it completely. This may be the excuse offered for not phoning.

I'm not saying we believe any of these things but he is clearly extremely self-deluded and is not going to just roll over and go "it's a fair cop, I'm a shit" in front of a mediator.

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 18:15:55

I have an email from him stating that he was unable to have her as he only pays them £300 a month for himself not for her to stay over and also due to their circumstances (stillborn baby in 2007) that it is difficult for them for her to stay over. I do understand that, but its taken him 5 months to find somewhere to live....

I havent said he cant bring OW with him, I just questioned why it needed to be every week, when they are denying an affair, yet spending all their time together. I did not want him to turn up at the local fair with OW admittedly, but did not say that to him and we only arranged to do the fancy dress an hour before due to the weather.

Im fairly certain he will mention the little show that they put on at the end of the holiday club, as DD asked my why daddy wasnt allowed to go... He shouldnt be saying things like that to her as its not fair on her or me. The very first time that she did the show, I filmed the whole 20 mins and put it on the computer for him to watch, but he never looked at it once, so I didnt see why I needed to tell him about the show this time. Its about the thrid time she has done it and he has never asked before.

Regarding school - he can look up the website the same as I can. He made it quite plain that he was fed up of being organised, so its up to him to find these things out for himself (my counsellor has advised that also).

But yes, it is all about how it affects DD.

for example. when you were 40 minutes late to collect DD it could have placed her in danger. It inconvenienced the staff running the holiday club. DD did not want to go with neighbour as "daddy is coming to get me" and was very upset. It also places stress on me as I am at work and then worried about DD's welfare as she has not been collected and there is nothing that I can do about it. In order to prevent DD from being let down, you need to leave home in plenty of time, to arrive on time, if not early. You admitted you were already running late that day even before getting stuck in traffic. If I am working I allow plenty of time to get home to collect her.

for example - when you are half an hour late bringing DD back, it disturbs her bedtime routine. She needs to come home and unwind and tell me about her day. This cannot be achieved if she is late home. She starts school in September and she must be in bed early each night otherwise she will get overtired.

for example - you have DD one day a week for 9 hours. Those 9 hours should be spent as quality time with her as it is the only time that you have with her. Appointments etc should be made for days other than the one day that you have her. If you have to take your mother to see your brother then they should understand that you need to be there and back here by the agreed time, otherwise it is reducing the amount of time that you spend with your daughter. I also make plans around the hours that you have DD, so if you are picking her up at 10am then I arrange to go out soon after.

We swapped two Sundays for two Saturdays and I texted you a fortnight before to check that it would be 10am to 7pm as usual and you agreed that it would be. Then the first Saturday you texted at 7 to say back by 7.30 and then said that it didnt matter that she was late because it was the summer holidays.

example - I asked if you would be able to have DD a day a week during the summer holidays, in order to give her a more stable time. Some fathers have their children for half of the holidays and quite often take them somewhere. I only asked for a day a week as I thought this would suit you better and not impact on your income too much. I did not think that you would be able to afford to take her on holiday. You declined due to work, however you are able to take a week off work to go abroad. I feel that if DD were old enough to understand then she would be very hurt by this. I feel that you are putting yourself and your friends before your DD. I have had to work at least 3 days a week during the holidays and DD has been with my mum and my neighbours. It would have been lovely for her to have been able to spend extra time with you rather than being shunted from one place to another (although she is always happy with her Nana and her friends).

example - you will not commit to a regular night in the week due to work. I have to tell DD who will be picking her up from school etc. She also asks when she is going to see you again and all I can tell her is Sunday and then if you turn up earlier I get grief because I "lied to her" that she wouldnt see you. It is too disruptive to her to not have an agreed visit during the week. I have to arrange work, childcare and some out of school clubs and I cannot do this if I don't know whether or not you are going to turn up.

This is the kind of thing I have in mind, but in response to him, not to attack him, but to come back, or explain if he has a go at me about anything. Im going to let him speak first and state what he wants so I cannot be accused of dictating anything. I have asked him repeatedly by email what he wants and he never answers and then when I suggest things he says I am telling him what to do..... The man cannot make a decision to save his life.

izzyizin Wed 29-Aug-12 18:33:49

How you think other dfs organise their contact during school holidays, or any other times for that matter, is irrelevant.

Similarly, it's not for you to judge how he spends his time, who with, and/or whether he's putting other above his dd.

Depersonalise your statements, take out any reference to the ow, and address them to the mediator(s) and not to him.

Don't imply that dd is 'shunted' anywhere at any time and do try not to sound as bitter as you're coming across in what you've written so far.

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 19:08:31

I dont mean to imply that DD is shunted from pillar to post, but trying to say that surely she would have been better off with her father than her friends..

I dont see how I can avoid coming across as bitter, when the man fucked off and left me along with a massive mortgage and everything else to worry about. If I cant say the things I have put above, then there is not much point in me going to mediation, as those are the things that I have an issue with sad

Proudnscary Wed 29-Aug-12 19:21:32

Are you joking when you say this is the kind of thing you have in mind but 'not as an attack'?! confused

Please understand that the people on this thread, including me, care about you and are on your side. We understand the above rant and the anger and hurt that it's come from.

But your post above is absolutely one long rant, one long attack on your ex. If I were him I would have stopped listening after two minutes - partly because I've heard it all before so I'm sure he has a good few times! You have gone over and over the same old things - and I have to say only about 50% of it is relevant!

For example you CANNOT tell him what he does with her in the 'nine hours' he has her!

Please take a deep breath, listen to us. Great that you vented on here and wrote that down but you need to LISTEN to him, LISTEN to the mediator, CALM DOWN and go in there with an open mind and with a view to your dd getting the best deal here. It is NOT for you to tell him what a prick he is and all the things he is doing wrong.

delilahlilah Wed 29-Aug-12 19:28:02

Maybe say the things you want to happen in future? Leave the past behind and look at what you want out of this?

ForeverAutumnNow Wed 29-Aug-12 19:43:32

Skye, the Mediator will not be interested in what`s gone before. He/She will cut to the chase right away, to find common ground for future access only. You are having the mediation because you have been unable to sort this out between you, so tomorrow will be the starting point. Your H will be asked to outline what he considers reasonable, and you will be asked if that is acceptable to you. A long dialogue about what has or hasn`t happened, or what your H does with his own time, will not be considered relevant, I`m afraid.

tribpot Wed 29-Aug-12 19:50:29

Have you been given a leaflet or anything explaining what the purpose of the mediation is, skye? It isn't for him to be forced to sit there and listen to a (well-deserved) litany of reasons why he's a shitbag. I'm sure all of us would be happy to bring back the ducking stool so that he could be made to sit still and listen to what a prick he is, with added dunkings, but bloody human rights and all that - it's not allowed.

There's some useful information here. Good quote:

Mediation isn't about telling you what to do, it's about helping you come to an agreement that everyone's happy with. This is an important point because if the agreement comes from you and not the mediators, it's much more likely that some level of trust can be established, and most importantly, some communication.

I do feel your counsellor may have led you to expect that mediation is your chance to say all the things you've been bottling up (apart from when the bottle has regularly exploded in the form of text wars and so on!). It isn't.

I think you are right to say you are 'disappointed' that he appears to have been able to make time for a holiday and not extra contact with his dd, and whilst she is too young to connect the dots now she won't be in a few years' time. You'd like to lay some ground rules for how your dd can see by his actions that she remains number one in your ex's priorities.

Likewise the being massively late to pick her up from holiday club was extremely distressing and confusing for dd, and this type of inconsistency also makes it impossible for you to plan your time effectively since you cannot be certain you won't have to step back into the breach.

And I also think you can make the point that in the past (both during the marriage and after) he has apparently found it difficult to state his own wishes but instead remains in a passive and reactive mode that is unhepful for two independent adults trying to reach a mutually satisfactory solution. I would lead off with this and allow the mediator to try and create an environment in which he can express his own wishes (or admit that he doesn't actually have any).

Xales Wed 29-Aug-12 20:04:19

Skye I know a lot of that seems important to you however it really isn't.

It does sound like you are going to use the mediation to beat him about how he has behaved.

He can say that DD can't stay over because it upsets them over their still birth and then spend all weekend every weekend with OW & DD. There is no point bringing that up, there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Simply that is in the past, you are not interested, you now have your own place, please can we arrange set times/dates when DD can come and stay with you.

It is his job to contact the school and know what is going on not yours.

Being late to collect her may be a PITA and it may inconveniece (spelling?) the staff however she was in no way at any time in danger. You are going to sound hysterical if you say that.

Again the past is now unimportant on collection however please can he be there on time for her when she is seeing him and if he can't he needs to make alternative arrangements in plenty of time and have a back up contact that is not you.

You won't win complaining about him bringing her back late during the holidays. An hour doesn't make a difference.

All you can do is once holidays are over and she starts school and to return her in time for her to be bathed, wound down and put to bed and so that she will not be totally knackered the next day.

You can't force him to have her at all. If he brings up lack of contact by all means you can say you offered him days during the holiday but he chose to work and go on holiday instead.

You need to stop saying 'you' to him. Ironic from the looks of this post.

You need to say. DD is unsettled, confused and upset when she doesn't know when she will be seeing you. We need to set specific dates that she can see you.

Also agree that dates and times will not be changed by either of you apart from emergencies (niot taking his mother to have her bunions done) or by x weeks prior notice.

izzyizin Wed 29-Aug-12 20:13:11

It is mediation with a view to conciliation, skye. It is not punitive and he will not be taken to task for what may be in your view his misdemeanours in respect of contact.

IMO you'd be far better off sending him a message tonight saying 'In view of the cost to yourself, I'm willing to cancel the mediation session in respect of contact tomorrow as I'm sure we're capable of sorting it out between ourselves '.

This magnanimous gesture on your part will save him £40 which he can split with you towards dd's uniform or other items she may need for school or whatever.

It will also keep control of contact in your hands and prevent you from falling into the trap of cutting your nose off to spite your face.

tribpot Wed 29-Aug-12 20:37:17

izzy - I think that could be difficult to pull off as the ex has asked for the mediation not to happen, in favour of skye's mum acting as a mediator. Postponing it until she's in a better frame of mind will probably bring another round of recriminations about lost earnings.

skye, I think maybe you should tell the mediator how difficult you are finding it to switch off your feelings relating to the end of the marriage, so at least you've put that out there in a calm way and hopefully the mediator can keep things on track.

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 20:40:20

I'm not putting myself across very well here, I am not going to sit and state all the things that I have said above but they are relevant. I intend to sit and let him say what he wants snd defend it explain myself as necessary.

I know it's about DD but I also have a life too and I won't have him continue to ruin it. I dont think its too much to ask. Hopefully some of the issues will resolve by him having her overnight.

My friends all say that he should be spending quality time with her. I suppose I should not listen to anybody and just give up and sit here with no life of my own while I rearrange my life around whether or not he can be bothered to turn up on time.

There would be no point in mediation if we can't talk about what has already happened. He will sit there and say you won't tell me this and you havent let me do that and I'm supposed to sit there and not say a word. He wants me to take DD to him? Well fuck that, he walked out, he has to come and collect her. Or am I supposed to just agree to everything that he says?

Friends who have been through mediation tell me that it does get angry and tearful at times. And that they did sort out grievances and misunderstandings . Mediation cost £95 per person per hour. Mine is on legal aid. I have asked my twat of an ex repeatedly exactly what he wants and he won't tell me, that is why we have gone to mediation. He tried to get out of it when he realised the cost. I said no as we can't agree on anything.

Now I'm crying and DD is crying. I've had enough. I wish I never asked for support because now I feel even worse and everybody misunderstands everything that I say.

izzyizin Wed 29-Aug-12 20:43:02

Who's going to be recriminating with whom about lost earnings, trib?

Seems to me that it will be a very long time, if ever, before skye'[s going to be in a better frame of mind with regard to her stbxh and she's best advised to refrain from mediation re contact until the financial matters are resolved.

izzyizin Wed 29-Aug-12 20:46:19

If you're like this before you get there, skye, you are best advised to call it off because although you won't be expected to agree with everything he says, the onus will be on you to meet him halfway in the interests of dd.

tribpot Wed 29-Aug-12 20:50:06

I'm sorry you feel put upon. That is truly not the intention of anyone who posts on this thread. We all think he should be spending quality time with her too, and we all think you should have your own life and you should not be constantly there as his understudy to take over the moment it becomes even slightly inconvenient to be a dad first and a man second. We are all outraged at how he has behaved and how he has hurt you.

But that is not the subject for tomorrow. We are trying to prepare you for what that meeting is, because you're in danger of shooting yourself in the foot if your (perfectly understandable) bitterness gets the better of you. If he makes accusations, of course you must defend yourself but the primary purpose is to reach an agreement. It is quite right and proper that you should state that the current arrangements are unsatisfactory - let's be honest, if they were, you wouldn't be in mediation in the first place. But 'fuck that, he walked out, he has to come and collect her' is the kind of attitude plays right into his hands. (I'm not saying you would actually say that but if it's in your mind there's a reasonable chance you'll say something similar!)

Put simply - the reason the marriage ended is not relevant tomorrow. It ended, that is all. This has all come about so fast, skye. It's not surprising you're shellshocked.

tribpot Wed 29-Aug-12 20:51:14

izzy - I'm assuming the ex is taking time off work for the mediation.

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 20:54:47

I intend to sort access with him, that's the whole point of going. He didn't want to sort finances but again is refusing to tell me what he wants. He won't sort the finances until we have sorted access as he is threatening to withhold money as I don't tell him stuff about her but he won't tell me what it is that he wants to know (bangs head against wall).

I broke down at my first session and told her that he walked out on me which was a huge shock and that I can't believe it's come to this and that he has a huge problem with communication which is why we are there. She said a problem like communication is only going to get worse with divorce not better.

I want it all over and done with. I could have divorced him last week.

nkf Wed 29-Aug-12 21:02:33

I agree with the posters. Take your feeligns out of it and concentrate on trying to create a stable, manageable arrangemetn that will allow your daughter to have regular contact with her father. It says a lot about him that he has chosen to live in a place where she can't stay but keep that to yourself. Always make it her needs.

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 21:13:56

He is moving into a three bedroom house on 14 September so should be able to start to have her overnight from then on. So renting far bigger than he needs and costing £625 a month instead of £450 for the flat he originally said he would move into. but of course I can't say anything about that either. I just hope he's happy when he cuts his maintenance and I lose this house.

Proudnscary Wed 29-Aug-12 21:29:45

Skye, we have all agreed that your ex is a useless shit.

We agree with your friends he should be spending quality time with her.

But even the fact you are saying that - and saying you're misunderstood - means you're misunderstanding us! We know you are angry and hurt and disappointed that he has let dd down but that's not what tomorrow is about.

It NOT a couple's therapy session tomorrow or a space for you to vent at him. So much of what you said upthread is irrelevant to sorting out proper access for your dd - a lot of it is about what you see (and we see) as his shortcomings. Some of those things such as who he chooses to be with and what he chooses to do with dd is absolutely none of your business, I'm afraid. You are no longer together.

No-one is misunderstanding you, love, we are all trying to advise you and to manage your expectations about tomorrow.

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 22:01:58

Sorry but nowhere above do I say who he can or can't spend his time with? others have mentioned OW etc but I haven't. And regarding his mother, he texted to say he would be late collecting DD as he had to take his mum somewhere. My point was that he should be there and back here in time to get DD at usual time.

Like you say it's all about DD so he should arrange his day around her times not the other way round, and if we can't discuss that in mediation then there is no point in it. My friends have told me that they discussed all sorts if issues including food , bedtimes, discipline etc.

I was told it was a controlled environment in which to discuss issues that you can't agree on to find a way forward. In fact the leaflet says " to resolve differences " improve communications and to help you see it from the other persons point of view. So in My mind those views need to be expressed so you can reach an agreement.

lemonstartree Wed 29-Aug-12 22:03:11

skye, you do need to drop the bitterness. Get the consent order sorted and the finances agree by a court. Then he will 'have' to pay what he is ordered to pay by the Court....

get the contact arrangements agreed formally too. Focus on what DD needs, not how pissed off you are....

MajorB Wed 29-Aug-12 22:38:11

Skye - long time lurker here, I think you're doing really well, and I can see why you're feeling attacked here, though all of these comments are made with the best intentions.

I think what everyone is saying is that if you phrase things slightly differently, you will probably have a much more positive experience tomorrow.

For example:
"DD needs the stability of knowing when she is going to see her father, can we please fix some days and times when you can see her that you (twatface) will definitely adhere to, regardless of what else is happening that day?"

"DD deserves the familiarity of home after the upheavals of this year, can we please agree maintenance that means she won't have to lose the home she has grown up in?"

Statements like the above (though I'm sure they can be worded better) put the emphasis on your DD, and make him look like a fool for not agreeing to them sooner without you having to say "why can't you just turn up on time you arse hole?!!" which, quite frankly, is what he deserves.

tribpot Wed 29-Aug-12 22:43:50

to help you see it from the other persons point of view

I wonder if you will be able to do that tomorrow, skye? I hope so - it will help if you can.

I think we all agree that getting some ground rules laid down for contact is very important - and that requesting (because it is only a request) that he prioritise his dd over giving his mother a lift (as an example) is fair. He may take a different view - the mediator will need to consider both and look for areas of compromise.

I genuinely hope it isn't too awful tomorrow. I sympathise enormously with your burning sense of injustice about all this.

lunar1 Wed 29-Aug-12 22:45:00

Sky, I have lurked on your thread for ages but not posted. I jut wanted to say that I am completely with you, you shouldn't be arranging your life around the twat that walked out on you. I agree with everything that you have posted, bitterness and all. That is why i never posted though because I am not really offering anything constructive.

I dont know anyone who has been through mediation so cant really comment on what to expect. Everyone else is completely right in telling you to detach and keep the bitterness away, i 100% understand your feelings, they are completely justified. I guess i am really posting as i get the feeling you think nobody sees this the way you do. he is treating you like you should be there at his convenience, and his dd like she is a toy to play with when he can be bothered.

post all your bitterness on the thread, you have to say it somewhere, and try to keep tomorrow to the facts. Trust me his twattishness will be there for all to see without any need to point it out.

I will go back to lurking as you have some brilliant levelheaded advisers on here, i wish i could be more like them sometimes. Good luck for tomorrow, will be thinking of you.

lunar1 Wed 29-Aug-12 22:46:41

Major, those statements are brilliant!

skyebluesapphire Wed 29-Aug-12 23:22:42

Thanks everybody. I just had a low spot again. PMT doesn't help either. I just wish this was all over. I wish more to the point that none if it had ever happened but can't change anything there...

The mediator said last week that they help you to rephrase things do that if something comes out wrong they help you to be understood. I just can't win with him because if I don't say anything I'm being difficult and if I do I'm dictating to him. There is no easy way of dealing with a man like that.

I told the mediator that his problem with communication is so huge that he walked out with no prior discussion just so she understands why I feel the way I do. She did agree that my mortgage is huge and that he cannot withhold money over access issues.

So anyway, let's hope tomorrow goes on. I have always been able to talk rationally and reasonably about things, my friends will tell you that. And right from when he walked out it was always me who instigated any conversations about us. I think if I hadn't bothered, then he would have wAlked out that first time and that would have been it, he would never have talked about any of it. I now find it extremely difficult to talk to him, yes because of the hurt and pain, but because he wouldn't talk to me when it really could have made a difference. Instead he told OW and his brother things that he never told me. And you can't defend yourself from accusations that you are unaware of.

I made it plain to him when he ended it that he was responsible for his own life from now on, as he wanted, yet he still can't make a decision or ask me for anything.

ForeverAutumnNow Thu 30-Aug-12 00:08:15

Skye, I will be thinking of you, and hoping you get all that you want from the session. You proved how dignified you are when you went to see MM. I`m sure you will be able to be the same tomorrow. Please know that we all just want the very best for you and your lovely DD.

good luck tomorrow, skye - think of it as a good way to hash out contact for your DD, with a person there to make sure he can't wiggle away or refuse to state what he wants.

Will be thinking of you smile

MusicForTheMasses Thu 30-Aug-12 07:41:55

Good luck today Skye.

Good luck today Skye.

Proudnscary Thu 30-Aug-12 08:12:51

Thinking of you Skye - you have done so fecking well all these months and you have, been increasingly strong and dignified and restrained (and the one keeping lines of communication open when twunt has been incapable, as you say).

Stay calm, clear minded, open minded, do actually listen to him as it might be more illuminating and helpful to the process than you think. And keep your eyes on the prize - your dd and her happiness.


<<big hugs>>

tribpot Thu 30-Aug-12 08:19:54

Wishing you all the best.

skyebluesapphire Thu 30-Aug-12 09:55:32

Thanks everyone. Mediation is at 3pm. Im at work at the moment, so better crack on with it to get the job done and take my mind off everything. Im going to have to leave early to go to mediation.

I am going with an open mind, but I am very nervous and on the point of tears. I just wish I never had to see him ever again.

MajorB Thu 30-Aug-12 12:56:49

You'll be fine, you're a strong, intelligent woman and you CAN do this.

Just remember, a suitable response to most of twatface's comments/statements is:

"Do/did you think that's best for DD?"

I.e. "I couldn't have DD overnight as my housemates were grieving over their lost baby"

Your response: "That's empathetic to them, but do you think it was best for DD to have such limited contact with you?"

"I found a lovely 3-bedroom flat 20 mins drive away"

"That's nice for you, but do you think it's best for DD that you're no longer near by?"

Good luck, we're all behind you.


Good luck for this afternoon. Ive been lurking but didnt feel I had anything constructive to add.

My advice after going through mediation with a twatface ex.
- always think before you answer

- make it all about DD not you or him. So its not that hes a twat for not being consistent over contact its thet DD needs the stability of him being consistent

- dont spend too long going over the past. Statements like - "we need to agree to disagree on that, so lets focus on how to move forward in DDs interests"

Hope it goes well.

villagegossip Thu 30-Aug-12 14:52:18

Thinking of you Skye

Hope the session goes well and you keep your composure. I really feel for what you're going through and have winced at a few of the comments to you recently as it must be hard to hear when you still feel so raw.

However, get this out of the way and you will have a definate plan where DD is concerned, that should hopefully make you feel like you're a bit more in control of things and can focus on just the two of you smile

lunar1 Thu 30-Aug-12 17:28:19

Hope everything went ok skye

skyebluesapphire Thu 30-Aug-12 20:34:01

Well it kind of went ok. I got upset in the waiting room and the mediator said she could understand why, but they are there to look at the future, but that we may have to touch on the past to resolve an issue. They took me into the room first, then him. We had 2 mediators, one male, one female. I let him speak first and say what he wanted. But he agreed with what I had suggested of 1 whole weekend and every Sunday!!. I pointed out that I had suggested that but he had responded by saying that I was dictating to him. He denied saying it, so I said I have an email saying it in black and white!!! I asked if he would have her Friday to Sunday and he said no, he would pick her up Saturday evening! I said NO, you have her for the whole weekend, Saturday morning to Sunday night, so he agreed to that and said in future he would hopefully be able to pick her up on Friday night. I said that if he says he will do that then he needs to stick to it, so he said leave it for now then.

The mediators DID see my point that I need pickups and dropoffs to be at the time arranged and got him to understand where Im coming from. They said that for DD's sake it needs to be continuity and for MY sake it needs to be arranged and stuck to, as I have a life as well! He didnt mention anything about midweek access at all, so I will clarify that at the next meeting. They said to him that he has 6 days a week freedom and I only have one, so he needs to accept that I will make plans for that day. They stressed to him that it is important to respect each other and keep to the agreed times.

He asked me if I would take her to see him and i said no, he walked out and chose to live in XXXXXX so its up to him to come and get her. He looked at the mediator and said "See what she's like". !!!!! I wanted to punch his face in and I am really not an aggressive person!!!! I told him that I usually spend Sunday's working and that I cant afford the diesel to run around to him, when he chose to move away. He said it had taken him months to find somewhere, i said you could have lived somewhere else, he said no I want to live here, so I said well dont complain that its 20 miles to travel then, when you chose to live there. The mediator said to me well I can see you feel strongly about that and I said yes I do! He chose to move that far away so I dont see why it should cost my time and money to ferry DD around when he chose to walk out.

I also asked him what he wanted to know about her and he couldnt really say! So they pushed him to say what he wants to know and he couldnt, other than school plays, so I pointed out that she's not at school yet and that everything is on the website. He said you should tell me the termtimes, I said NO, you left me because I organised everything, so its up to you to find the info out yourself, you are just as capable of looking at the website as I am and the mediators did suggest to him that was the best thing to do. they asked him to go away and think about what it is exactly that he wants to know and that I can then tell him those things.

We are going to talk about the finances next time and they want the forms filled in before then. They look at the cost of living, so if he is overspending, they will tell him that, they said that to him, that he needs to list everything and if his outgoings are more than his incomings they will help him to assess where he can cut back.

We are going to talk about other things like Christmas, Birthdays, holidays etc next time. We have arranged access right up to the end of November at the moment. I asked why he refused to have her in the holidays and he said he hadnt refused and told them that due to his work he couldnt know when he was free. I said but you could have chosen to take a day off to have her and the mediator agreed with that point. i said to him that he CHOSE to take a week off with his friends and he didnt answer that. The mediator said to him that if he cant commit to something due to work, then he needs to accept that as it is important to me that we have set and regular contact.

The mediator did say to me that we are looking forward, not backwards to sort out access etc and I understand that.

When we arranged the next appointment, the mediator asked him where he was going on holiday and he sat there squirming before saying Majorca. The mediator said "lovely" and I said YES ISNT IT?!!!! I couldnt help myself. I didnt start crying until after I had left......

I hated it. We sorted out a lot and she said we had done really well.

tribpot Thu 30-Aug-12 20:45:59

You've done really well, skye. Well done you.

I'm so, so sad about him saying he'd only pick her up on Saturday evening. The unmitigated selfishness towards his own child makes my blood boil. Fortunately, however, he's done it in front of witnesses and you will now be able to state, if the need arises, that you offered more access than he was willing to accept. The gigantic turd.

Very good work on the part of the mediators to highlight to him that he has no idea what he really wants when he says 'she should tell me things'. (That sounds like a line he's been fed by the OW someone). You've made the point that he left you because you organised everything; I think from now on you can just make the point that you are two independent adults, it's up to him to keep track of arrangements. If you were inclined to feel super generous you could offer a share a particular Google calendar with him (with of course only those appointments or dates you wanted him to be aware of) so that you're not both literally writing down the term dates. But there is no compelling reason why you should do this except efficiency - and possibly to avoid conversations in the future where he requests an extra day or a switch and you already have something planned.

But you've got through it, that's the main thing. Deep breath, large glass of wine and a big pat on the back for you!

I'm so glad for you that you managed not to cry in there, (I would have found the whole thing so hard) and I'm so so glad you've got contact sorted, for your DD's sake, into a reliable pattern. Much, much better for her to know when he's coming, even if he can't commit to midweek (git).

Keep your chin up, Skye, you're doing really well. brew

Well done for staying calm, and being able to get your point across.

He seems to not want to organise his life, while organising his life in connection to your DD.

lunar1 Thu 30-Aug-12 21:15:33

Well done skye, looks like he managed to make himelf look like a wally without any help from you!

LouP19 Thu 30-Aug-12 21:21:19

Well done Skye, I was thinking of you this afternoon. Hope you've managed to have a relaxing evening.

ForeverAutumnNow Thu 30-Aug-12 21:29:07

Well done Skye. Mediators HAVE to be seen to be totally impartial, but they are only human, and do sometimes feel more empathy towards one partner. I`ll bet my house on who that was today!!!! I like the "Where are you going on holiday?" question, which wasn`t at all relevant, but showed him up for what he is.

Proudnscary Thu 30-Aug-12 22:06:13

God I felt so emotional reading your post - must have been so stressful and upsetting for you. You did SO well. Hope you are relaxing with a wine and feel relieved it's over for today xx ps he is a selfish arsehole sad

MajorB Thu 30-Aug-12 22:12:46

I'm doing a little cheer for you here Skye - you did brilliantly!!!

I'm sure it was hideous to have to go through, but you did it and you did really well, I'm so proud of you (though that sounds daft to say to a grown woman!)

Now you know what to expect, you can think a bit more about what you want to achieve from the next session. I'm sure you don't even want to think about that now, but after the giant hurdle of today, the next one will feel easier.

He's such a twat not wanting to see his daughter, and you're such a star.

Here's to you wine

nkf Thu 30-Aug-12 22:14:46

You've done well. Really well.

skyebluesapphire Thu 30-Aug-12 22:20:18

I just feel so sad, that I was sat in a room with a man that I would have given my life for, and that I couldnt even really look at him. I looked right at him a couple of times, when he accused me of lying. One thing I am not is a liar. The rest of the time I directed my comments to the mediator. and I even referred to him as Mr SBS at one point, lol.

That man destroyed my whole world just 6 months ago and I know it could have been worse, but he just sits there with no emotion other than to have digs at me and he is the one who caused all of this. My DD is going to grow up splitting her time between us and I hate him so much for that.

I was strong and fairly dignified. I did lose it a couple of times, but only to stand my ground, such as when he denied saying that I had dictated to him, because I have proof that he said it. Thank god for emails.....

I'm having a good cry now, but I feel OK. Ive got all the financial forms to fill in for them. The mediator said to him, can you get it back before you go away and he said probably. The mediator then pushed him and said , I need to know so we can arrange the next appointment and he said I'll do my best. So the mediator said is that a yes or a no then??!! I think they have got his number.....

They said its a matter of respect, to make sure that you turn up on time etc and got him to agree to that. He said he would like DD one whole weekend a month and possibly another weekend hmm. so the mediator asked him what he meant, did he mean every other weekend. he said, one weekend fixed and another one if possible. So I said fine, have her every other weekend if you want and he said no it doesnt have to be fixed, just if she is free.

The mediator said, no, it does need to be fixed, not just randomly arranged....... they set it out in stone for the next couple of months....

MajorB Thu 30-Aug-12 22:32:53

That's a major improvement then, finally some fixed dates you can work around.

I'm really glad they reinforced the need for him to respect you (the mother of his child) you'd think that would be a given, but blokes like this just feel that the world should revolve around them. So pleased the mediators pointed out that it doesn't!

I bet you are emotionally drained, but I think you have made some agreements today that should really enhance the quality of your and DD's life, and enable you to move into a brighter, better future.

It's great progress, even if it doesn't feel that way right now.

tribpot Thu 30-Aug-12 22:42:52

Good, that's really, really important that he hears from the mediator that his random 'maybe-maybe not' approach is unfair to his dd and disrespectful to you.

It is desperately sad, that this love that you gave in good faith has been discarded by him as if it were an inconvenience instead of a gift he didn't deserve. He could easily have prevented the end of his marriage if he could have been arsed - and even if it had run its course (unbeknownst to you) he could have avoided this end to his marriage, this careless destruction of his daily relationship with his dd. What a stupid, selfish fool.

skyebluesapphire Thu 30-Aug-12 22:54:01

I do feel better in a lot of ways, as they did push him for an answer and they did step in when it got a bit heated. They told him to go away and think about things that he couldnt answer or ask, today.

He said he was getting keys on 14 sep, so they said when can you have her overnight, he said I dont know, I havent got any furniture or anything, so they said well when can you have her, the following weekend, he said oh I dont know, so they pushed him until he agreed to the first weekend in October........... I dont mean they were pushy, they just made him suggest and agree to something

tribpot Thu 30-Aug-12 22:57:15

God. If he was that bothered, you'd think he would borrow some blow-up campbeds and have an adventure with her in the new house! His apathy is truly dreadful - it's very easy to see why it drove/drives you to a response which he then categorises as controlling.

skyebluesapphire Thu 30-Aug-12 23:16:07

I think they could see that. I know they are impartial, but they had to keep pushing him for a response (to the same questions that i asked but he wouldnt respond to me!) .

They genuinely could see my point of view and that I need to have a life outside of my DD.

He kept saying things like If I can, or If Im not working - and I think the male mediator got a bit fed up with him, because he tried to make the point that work or no work, he needs to commit to something and then stick to it, out of respect to me and DD

They agreed that anybody can get held up in traffic, but I pointed out that twunt was already running late as he had told me, before getting held up. He then complained that the neighbour wouldnt collect DD when he asked, but did it when I asked. i pointed out that they dont like him for how hes treated me and that he left here saying that he had no friends, so no she didnt want to help him, but she did it for me when I asked. So he said, so she was prepared to leave a 4 year old girl there on her own?? i said, no, that was you....... I said that the neighbour isnt always going to be there and that he needs to get there on time. The mediators agreed that its not right to contact me when he is running late as it just stresses me at work and I cant do anything about it.....

The only fault they had with me, was trying to sort out too much at once, they wanted to leave stuff til the next session.

God knows how it will go over the finances..... he said that the only thing to sort out is the house...

I can understand why you would want to get everything sorted at once, as it seems to be like pulling teeth with him to get him to agree to anything and everything.

But next time you go both you and the mediators know how sullen and sulky he will be.

Sorry posted to soon.

I think you will find the finance bit easier as it not directly related to DD and her happiness per se.

And you know exactly what you need and want to keep you and DD in your home.

skyebluesapphire Fri 31-Aug-12 08:13:56

Wheredid - you are spot on, he was sullen and sulky and childish. I only got annoyed when he denied stuff that was true. I can't believe he could sit there and lie like it.

He is just a big child.

On the bright side, I have been chatting to a really nice man who lives not far away. He has three girls who come first in his life. He is 40 too. He also knows loads of people where I live due to the nature of his work. He hasn't passed one smutty comment either. We have loads in common too. I feel that we are becoming friends.

Proudnscary Fri 31-Aug-12 09:23:48

The mediator said to him, can you get it back before you go away and he said probably. The mediator then pushed him and said , I need to know so we can arrange the next appointment and he said I'll do my best. So the mediator said is that a yes or a no then??!! I think they have got his number.....

Your ex is not just selfish and useless but extremely passive aggressive.

He knows (subconsciously or otherwise) that it's his one power play with you as you like to know where you stand and get things sorted.

I think mediation was a very good idea for you - he is really impossible.

I am just shock at him and any parent who is not moving mountains to spend as much time as possible with their dc.

skyebluesapphire Fri 31-Aug-12 10:45:08

Thank you. I know I like to be organised (which he now says is controlling), but it is nice to know that it isnt me, ITS HIM!! I had never thought of him as passive aggressive, but I suppose thats exactly what he is. If I ever tried to say that I was unhappy about something, he would say "oh you're just being stupid or unreasonable, or childish" or something like that. He would never argue but I would always end up in tears as I couldnt discuss issues with him.

Its all becoming so much clearer in my head, his behaviour and the way he has treated me. I know I have my faults, who doesnt, but I was prepared to do something about it and he wont even acknowledge that he has a problem, It was just "thats the way I am, deal with it", while expecting me to change.....

In the next session I want to pin him down on school holidays, Christmas, Birthdays etc and get him to arrange something. I want her with me on Christmas morning. He walked away from me and her. I think he therefore forefeits the right to Christmas morning. The counsellor suggested he has her Christmas Eve, but of course thats a normal working day to him, so he probably wont want her hmm. I said that he can have her Boxing Day as thats when we used to visit his family anyway. We have always spent Christmas Day with my family as his family are so weird, his mum never cooks and is happy to sit at home on her own..... I always tried to include his family. His brother goes to his ex-girlefriends one bedroom flat, with her mum, brother, 2 daughters, 2 granddaughters, 2 best friends and about 6 dogs. That is not how I want my daughter to spend Christmas. or if he spends it with OW and her H, I dont want that either.

It came out yesterday that he's not always allowed to take her to their house where he lodges. So if she is not welcome there then she is not going there for Christmas.

My Christmas Day is with my mum, dad, brother, aunt, uncle, cousins. All people that DD knows and loves a lot. and 1 dog. and 1 cat. LOL.

Of course, I looked up the football fixtures and his team are playing down here in a local Derby on Boxing Day, so it will be interesting to see if he puts them or DD first. I dont care if he goes football as it means that I will get Boxing Day with her as well. His loss, my gain. Twat.

tribpot Fri 31-Aug-12 11:09:30

I think normal arrangements for Christmas are to swap year on year (at least, this is how it was in my blended family growing up - must have been hellish to agree as my mum and step-dad obviously both had previous marriages so it was three households' Christmases that had to stay in step.

I would follow the mediators' lead on whether it's too early to set in stone that she has every Christmas Day with you and every Boxing Day with him; it would be more reasonable on paper to take turns but based on established traditions, you do your family stuff on Christmas Day and he does his on Boxing Day. (Likewise now we do our family visiting on Boxing Day because my SIL likes to have Christmas Day at home just with their kids - I'm not bothered which day we do what as long as we do see each other).

Proudnscary Fri 31-Aug-12 11:28:25

Do be careful you are not meandering into irrelevancies or acting out of anger again, Skye. You are bolstered from feeling the mediators were implying he is the unreasonable one but don't get carried away.

My parents are divorced and as Tribot says we alternated between them both. Well we still do and I'm bloody 42 years old! I don't think it's relevant or even fair to say 'you left so I have her every Christmas morning'.

While I know you hate the thought of her with his weird family or in his lodgings or with OW - that stuff is not your business as long as she is safe. He can do what he likes and be with who he likes when he has her.

As ever, I fully support your view that he is an inadequate (and new to the list - passive agressive!) twat and I fully appreciate your frustration and fury.


Dozer Fri 31-Aug-12 19:08:20

Skye, well done at mediation, sounds like it was useful. Sad for your DD that he wants so little access, how awful of him, but good that the mediators emphasised the need for set dates, times etc and pinned him down on a few things.

Alternate years isn't the only option at Xmas. A friend of mine agreed with her ex that he has their son for most of the day on Xmas eve, dropping him off before tea, and then again on the afternoon of boxing day. In their case this suits her ex 'cos for him it is all about boozing and he can sleep off the hangover sadl she likes having Xmas eve alone so she can get everything ready.

skyebluesapphire Sat 01-Sep-12 01:09:46

Major news alert - Twunt text tonight to say could he ring to discuss a financial proposition.

That proposition being that he walks away from the house with nothing....... Good job I was sitting down... he was doing the right thing... we are both going to advise our solicitors on Monday morning......

I put the capital in and he has accepted that, he just asks that whatever his share should be, goes to DD.

He has somewhat restored my faith in mankind, but he is still a twunt.

On the plus side, i have a DATE on Sunday....... I am so scared, lol. i havent been on a date for over 10 years! We have been chatting every night this week, four hours tonight! So we thought we may as well meet and get it out of the way. He is the same age as me, has 3 girls , lives about 40 minutes away. We have a lot in common.

izzyizin Sat 01-Sep-12 01:42:57

Mmm... given that he was pressed to return an account of his financial affairs prior to going on holiday by the mediators yesterday, I find his offer significant.

Either he's got something to hide (has he won the lottery?) or this is a sop to his conscience as he knows he'll be walking away from dd at some point in the not too distant future.

skyebluesapphire Sat 01-Sep-12 02:00:33

It did make me wonder, he is supposed to be doing form E anyway for the solicitor, so I will get my solicitors advice as to whether he should still be completing that or not.

He said it all seems a lot of hassle for him to end up with not much anyway. I did point out that I had cleared £10K worth of debts for him in 2006 and that my solicitor reckoned he would get another £8-£10K at most.

We do still need to discuss maintenance as I need that amount confirming.....

I know he walked away from his previous relationship and left with nothing. he said that as he was bankrupt at the time then whatever he got from the sale of the house would go to the receiver anyway, so he just let his ex have it.

We need to iron out that he will still be paying maintenance. I would imagine that his solicitor will say that he shouldnt or something if he is giving up the house.

I feel a sense of relief in one way, but again, he is so apathetic, that its easier to give up than to fight for a share! i said he cant have it until she is 18 and he said whats the point if I have to wait til then anyway. He just said if the only thing holding up the divorce is the house then just have it. He knows that I want to divorce asap. Maybe he does too now.

So at least if the house is mine and I dont have to pay him anything in the future, then it doesnt matter if I ever remarry or whatever, as he wont have a charge on the house.

I hope he hasnt won the lottery, I will be really annoyed to do a clean break settlement and then find out he has won £150 million, lol.

Another minor thing happened today, an email came through my account by mistake, he must have used the wrong address and it was from OW to STBXH. It said

texts - sorry I havent replied to your texts but I was signing up to the union. That sounds really lovely, see you at 1pm xxx

nothing significant, but proves that the contact is still ongoing...... sooner or later they will slip up. But I will be divorced and far far away from it all by then, lol. I just feel sorry for her H, but he is choosing to ignore it all, so on his head be it. By the time their lives all go tits up i will be sailing off into the sunset with my new man. possibly, lol. Dont worry, Im not rushing into anything......

nkf Sat 01-Sep-12 07:55:31

He - and you - should still be filling in Form E. It's basic stuff. My ex grumbled about it. We don't need to... It's childish. He finds it a hassle? Divorce a hassle? He's a child. That's what it is. This is how grown ups go about it. They write down their assets honestly and face up to what they have and what they are going to have.

He has to pay child mainenance. That is the law. He can't walk away from that and you can't negotiate an agreement that he doesn't pay child maintenance at the CSA rate.

You sound much more positive. I'm glad. Well done.

Proudnscary Sat 01-Sep-12 08:15:35

Brilliant about the house...what a relief.

But I am deeply suspicious that he is suddenly being Mr Generous/Reasonable now. I know pretty much feck all about financial stuff but can anyone else advise whether Skye should think twice about accepting and wait for his full declaration?

Re your date, I think it's a bit soon since you are still in a wobbly place and are at an intense part of the divorce but obviously you're a grown up and it's up to you! I'm glad you have something to feel excited and uplifted about and this guy sounds very nice xx

Dozer Sat 01-Sep-12 08:28:00

I don't see why he is trying to discuss financial stuff outside mediation, surely if he wants to be helpful he should simply complete the required forms/providing the information and stating that he won't seek money from the house?

skyebluesapphire Sat 01-Sep-12 09:23:49

I will email and suggest that he needs to complete form E still and see what my solicitor says

tribpot Sat 01-Sep-12 09:35:22

I agree with the others - he needs to complete the Form E, not to mention advise his solicitor he's made an independent offer.

My guess is that he found the mediation acutely uncomfortable, is looking for ways to avoid another session and also doesn't want to disclose how far in debt he's managed to get already. He probably also wants to look like the noble, suffering man putting his dd first by giving up his share of the house for her - in return for 'not being able to afford to see her' very often.

All I would say to him is that you'll advise your solicitor of the offer but you anticipate he/she will advise the completion of the Form E.

skyebluesapphire Sat 01-Sep-12 13:05:35

Yes, I get the feeling that he doesn't want to disclose his debts lol.

I do think he still needs to list finances and do form E so we can agree maintenance.

skyebluesapphire Sat 01-Sep-12 13:06:30

I also told him to ensure he tells his family this is his choice as I don't want them saying I made him walk away with nothing.

tribpot Sat 01-Sep-12 14:20:42

Unfortunately he isn't obliged to tell the truth, skye. You can only reach the best deal for you and dd - which may come with consequences.

Xales Sat 01-Sep-12 14:31:12

I put the capital in and he has accepted that, he just asks that whatever his share should be, goes to DD.

It's magmanomous (spelling) bollocks.

Firstly if you put everything and cleared his debts then morally he doesn't have a share.

So saying give my share to DD means I know I haven't got a foot to stand on to screw any money out of you and walk away looking good. So I will spout this shit to make it look like I have...

Obviously agree to it to get the house but don't think it is any more than him making himself look good at surprise surprise no cost to him...

skyebluesapphire Sat 01-Sep-12 14:38:04

Lol. According to solicitor he would get a minimum of 25% if it went to court. His solicitor will obviously tell him that he is mental. I was prepared to let him have £10k in 14 years. Lol.

At least I won't have it hanging over me now. He is doing what's morally right

nkf Sat 01-Sep-12 15:50:05

Do not email him. Do not tell him what to stay to his family. You are now in a process called mediation. Stick with it. He probably doesn't want to own up to things and all this faux generosity and not wanting the hassle is part of that. No financial discussions outside the meetings. Make a note of what he said and discuss it in the meeting.

What worries me about your posts is that you are reacting to his comments. What do you need/want so that you and your daughter can do okay? Forget about his offering. It isn't about that.

skyebluesapphire Sun 02-Sep-12 01:16:03

I have just accepted his offer, which is what I wanted anyway. he has no savings, only debts. If he wants to walk away with nothing, then that is up to him and only fair in my opinion as its my money that went into the house.

I want the house and I need weekly maintenance. I will confirm in the next mediation session about the maintenance.

lemonstartree Sun 02-Sep-12 08:41:46

That's fine, but make sure it is written in a consent order so that its is legally binding.

Do not stop mediation.

Balderdashandpiffle Sun 02-Sep-12 08:49:36

It has been known for judges not to accept consent orders if they think they are too one-sided.

Proudnscary Sun 02-Sep-12 08:53:07

Ok good for you Skye. I'm really glad you have got that sorted out in your favour.

I really don't think you can or should try and control what he says to his family or anyone else. You are no longer together and you cannot tell him what to do or what not to do. As long as DD is safe and he sticks to what is decided in mediation, he can say and do what he likes.

I think it will also be good for you to accept there are things that are out of your hands and if his very strange family think ill of what? You know the truth as does anyone who knows you and cares about you.

nkf Sun 02-Sep-12 10:51:02

You must stick with the legal process and get a consent order.

skyebluesapphire Sun 02-Sep-12 23:13:00

Balderdash - that is exactly what my solicitor said - that no judge will rubber stamp a divorce where one partner walks away with nothing... I need to speak to him tomorrow, tell him what twunt has said and see what he says.

but whatever happens, it will be done officially and in a consent order, along with the maintenance agreed. I want it all water tight and legal so that there is no come back..

regarding his family, I just asked that he tell them that it is completely his decision. I think that is only fair as I dont want to be attacked for him walking away with nothing. I dont think its too much to ask. I doubt I will see any of them again anyway, but if there was a do that we crossed paths, there is no reason for any of them to hate me, if he is honest with them.

Mediation will continue, I have told him that. He texted me tonight and said do you want to ring the mediation people or should I? I said you do it, it was your idea! Muppet! and I said he will probably still have to complete the cost of living bit in regard to maintenance.

Had my date today. We did a 2 mile coastal walk. He was good company. He was a nice bloke, but I kept feeling like I was cheating on twunt which is ridiculous I know. Then i saw twunt as picked up DD on way home as was passing. he was trying to be friendly, had bought DD yet more toys (going to Majorca for a week, wont see her next weekend guilt toys). I cried all the way home as DD rambled on about how daddy loves her and me and that he has got a new house for us all to live in and she doesnt want to live with me, she wants to live with him.

izzyizin Sun 02-Sep-12 23:59:32

A 2-mile walk is a date??? shock Jeez, you've got some funny customs down your way.

The twunt might have made an offer to you but now he's buggering off to Mallorca and it's unlikely that anything can be done about it until his return.

skyebluesapphire Mon 03-Sep-12 00:07:22

I know. He is going to ring his solicitor tomorrow, we dont have mediation again until 14th September. I cant get the family "loan" for the shortfall on the mortgage until October anyway and the mortgage application is still being sorted out.

grin - we met in the car park, walked up the road to the beach, along the beach and round in a circle. Then we had a drink, which I paid for , then we walked about half a mile and found this coastal path, so we walked along it and then reached a signpost that said xx beauty spot 1/2 a mile. so we carry on walking along a high narrow path [did not help my vertigo!!) anyway, we got to this beauty spot - to see sod all because the mist was rolling in off the sea hmm.

so then we walked back again. i guess it was 3 miles, probably overall, lol. He said he doesnt walk that far usually, I said neither do I.

He wanted to turn back at one point but I said no, Im not giving up, you never know what is just around the corner....

izzyizin Mon 03-Sep-12 00:24:41

You knew very well what would be around the corner - more views of the same, albeit in this case shrouded in sea mist grin

And you paid for the drinks shock You've got a lot to learn about the dating game, honey smile

SpiderManMum Mon 03-Sep-12 00:27:18

Well done Skye, thats the hurdle of your first 'date' out of the way! Crikey that was some walk grin, he's probably at home soaking his feet! Do you think you'll see him again?

Totally understand how you feel about 'cheating' on twunt ironically as it is. I've had a few looks on Match but it just feels wrong for me atm, exactly like i'm cheating on my twunt and in a weird way DS too which is even worse as I don't despise him wink Think that means i'm just not ready yet...

So pleased to read that things are moving in the right direction with the finances, you really are doing so well.

SpiderManMum Mon 03-Sep-12 00:29:21

grin izzy! I was also wondering if it was the norm to pay for the drinks, unless Skye insisted of course!

skyebluesapphire Mon 03-Sep-12 00:38:31

lol. i dont know the ettiquette. Over 10 years ago, I expected the bloke to pay, but things seem to be different nowadays lol. He said what do you want to do, I said shall we go get a drink. We sat there looking at menus and stuff and he didnt say anything, so I said Im getting a cold drink, do you want one, he said oh if youre sure?....

It was £3.30 for 2 Pepsi's

To be fair, he did offer to buy me a coffee later on, but I said no.

I dont want to be dating..... I shouldnt have to be dating.....

the bloke who serviced my boiler yesterday is an old friend. He is 44 and seperated at Christmas. Im seeing him in a new light, lol. No man is safe.

izzyizin Mon 03-Sep-12 01:00:24

He sounds like a big girl's blouse with moths in his wallet Send him a bill for the pepsi and wear and tear on your shoe leather plus 20% VAT for enduring a Very Arduous Twat grin

On a first date you should expect to be treated like royalty which means that you don't get to carry any cash except for a twenty for cab fare home if you have to escape via a window in the ladies wink

skyebluesapphire Mon 03-Sep-12 01:22:20

Lol. He's a really nice bloke but I fear he may be too wet for me, lol.

I'm so not ready for dating :-(

izzyizin Mon 03-Sep-12 02:07:28

Boiler Man sounds a better bet - play your cards right and you should be able to get a free service out of him plus maintenance/repairs as and when you feel the need your appliance dictates grin

tribpot Mon 03-Sep-12 07:16:11

This guy was meant to more like a friend with potential though, wasn't he skye? If he's not right for dating material, at least don't throw him away as a friend.

I think a 2 mile walk sounds like a nice 'friend-date'!

Quite understandable that you feel it's too soon to be dating, though, skye - plenty of time for that when you're ready.

Has your ex explained to your dd that he won't see her next weekend? I'd be doing plenty of positive reinforcement about that - so cheerful things like "Isn't it a shame that we won't see daddy this weekend? Shall we have a big girls' trip out instead?" and make it a fun thing rather than a sad one. With the house, I know it's hurtful but of course it's just the novelty and I think trying to make sense of why there are two homes, not one. I think on some level she's saying she wants to go and live with daddy so you can can explain why you aren't all going to live there. To what extent does she 'know' that you're separated?

I'm confused by his 'shall you phone the mediators or shall I?' comment - why would they need to know in between sessions that you'd come to a tentative financial arrangement?

Proudnscary Mon 03-Sep-12 07:59:55

sad re your daughter.

She's clearly trying to make head or tail of it all - practically and emotionally. You need to repeat the same things over and over again (I'm sure you do) - keep reiterating that you and daddy will not be living in daddy's new house, you and dd are in your house, daddy will be in his new house and she will visit him there. You and daddy won't be married anymore but you both love her very much and both love it when she is with you etc etc.

Emotionally, I guess just keep asking her how she feels, giving her opportunities to talk about things - read her picture books about family's/parents separating, tell her you sometimes feel sad that daddy isn't at home anymore etc?

My children are 10 and 8 - I still have to tell them five or six times about arrangements, say, if dh and I are are away for a night or even what we are all doing for the weekend, before they take it in. I don't know if that's kids just not really listening or whether all children need reassurance about what's going on so they feel safe.

skyebluesapphire Mon 03-Sep-12 09:03:45

Thanks trib and proud, yes I am telling her those things, daddy loves her, I love her but daddy doesn't love me and now lives somewhere else, that she will sleepover often but live with me because we live close to her school.

When he walked out he took her into another room and told her he was going to live somewhere else. She tried to pack a bag and go with him. sad

Re mediation , I think he is ringing them to say that he's offered me the house and doesn't want to fill the form in. I have insisted on the next session.

Regarding my date, yes he is becoming a good friend. I told him last night that I don't think I'm ready for a relationship but I had a lively day and he wants to go out for a meal in a couple of weeks.

skyebluesapphire Mon 03-Sep-12 09:06:19

We are going to a local attraction with her friends next Saturday. I'm using Clubcard vouchers to have a free day out and thank my friend for all her support.

On Sunday she has a Birthday party so she won't have time to miss him at all.

And he is going to ring her.

Midwife99 Mon 03-Sep-12 09:29:58

That's it Skye - makes lots of fun plans & she won't even notice the absence of Daddy! Re the financial offer - He's obviously trying to avoid mediation & Form E. I don't agree with your solicitor by the way - my DH let his ex have all the equity in the house plus monthly maintenance & a clean break in a court approved consent order!

50shadesofgreyhair Mon 03-Sep-12 10:30:13

Hi Skye, (I was Saffysmum before holiday btw, but had to rejoin). You sound like you're doing ok love. Now don't take anything he says as gospel, you must get the consent order drawn up. Your solicitor doesn't inspire me, to be honest - my SHL got me a fantastic settlement, and the Judge approved the consent order, and I got just about everything! So it isn't the case that a Judge will only approve a "shared" outcome.

He has to fill in form E, and he has to do it all legally. Twunt huffed and puffed and ignored Form E for months, but even he had to fill one in eventually! You can always decide not to continue the mediation route if there is too much faffing around, and bounce it all back to your solicitor (I did this).

As far as dating goes - it's too early - you're too hurt and vulnerable. But you can have lots of fun with lots of different people - say yes to invitations, and be open minded about trying new things.

As far as your daughter is concerned, she's trying to adjust. Don't react to her comments, don't get upset (outwardly at least). Stay neutral, repeat that mummy and daddy still adore her, and she'll have two homes, but her main one will be with mummy. Don't enter into justifying it all - you'll be on a hiding to nothing. She's adapting to change, and kids that age change with the wind anyway. Let her see mummy as fun and calm and strong, and she'll naturally gravitate towards you.

Early days, but you're doing very well.

skyebluesapphire Mon 03-Sep-12 20:29:46

Hi saffysmum! smile. Twunt has emailed today, he has spoken to his solicitor who wants it in writing and will then write to my solicitor. He is going to pay £60 a week which is more than the CSA would order (£37).

I think he is feeling extremely guilty. I think he has built up debt that he doesnt want me to know about. Not that it's my problem any more.

tribpot Mon 03-Sep-12 20:57:29

I think you just need to keep reinforcing the point "that's fine, we can sort out the exact details once the Form Es have been exchanged" - it seems pretty obvious this is what he wants to avoid, skye.

50shadesofgreyhair Mon 03-Sep-12 21:31:47

If he's in debt, then of course he doesn't want to fill in an E Form Skye. My ex said that he thought he might be made redundant (he wasn't, it was just a twuntish ploy) because he thought that would mean he would be able to pay us less. However, my SHL turned that round, and said that as his job was dodgy, she'd better get all the house for me, because we couldn't rely on him to meet the maintenance. Perhaps your ex knows he's up shit creek, and is trying to save face? Whatever, get it all approved and agreed legally, and agree to nothing with him direct. xx

skyebluesapphire Mon 03-Sep-12 22:15:04

I know he has no money, he forgot about his pension fund, had to ask me what his life insurance was for and how much..... He hasn't got a bloody clue because he left me to deal with everything.

He has no money and is very much up shit creek. I'm wondering whether he is thinking of going bankrupt and therefore wants me and the house to be out of the way so we are not affected by it...

Text from him this afternoon, he has paid in £120 for all the uniform and clothes I have bought for her lately.

He also text to say he was sorry it ended like this, he is sorry for what he did and he will always care about me. He hopes I can move on and be happy.....

Proudnscary Mon 03-Sep-12 22:25:30

Why he's suddenly saying all that? I hope you didn't respond, madam!


Could it be that "OW" is about to leave her husband and move in with him when he move into "his" new house.

Proudnscary Mon 03-Sep-12 22:43:18

Well something fairly seismic seems to be happening for him to be making all these grand gestures...

Xales Mon 03-Sep-12 22:46:41

The optimist in me hopes that after the session with the mediators he went away and did some deep thinking.

The pessimist in me says gird you loins for what is coming next...

skyebluesapphire Mon 03-Sep-12 23:17:21

Xales - I was being optimistic and hoping that mediation has made him feel damn guilty... But who knows...

Emails exchanged between him and OW slipped through the net to my computer and both of them were saying to each other, looking forward to seeing you at 1pm. This is two people who aren't married and live in the same house. Who emails their "lodger" to say looking forward to seeing you when they see each other every morning and evening! They also referred to her not replying to his texts.

I digress, but it proves they are still in a lot of contact so things could be hotting up. Time will tell.

They are off to Majorca tomorrow. I hope he chokes on his cheap lager.

tribpot Mon 03-Sep-12 23:21:33

So we're back to a scene from a Mike Leigh drama set in the 70s, skye - the Cuckold, the Mistress and the Adulterer are all going on hols together? How jolly!

It sounds to me like the ex is hoping if he makes sufficient noises about being sorry you won't hold him to any further mediation sessions. Likewise make a reckless financial offer to avoid Form E. He's all about avoiding his responsibilities, hiding from rather than facing the consequences of his actions. He just wants a 'clean break' and for the recriminations to end.

50shadesofgreyhair Tue 04-Sep-12 06:43:15

'The lager in Majorca don't taste like wot it oughta'

How odd, this little trio going off on holiday together...God you're best out of it all Skye, you really are.

Dig your heels in for all you can get, especially the house. Don't agree to anything (I know I keep repeating myself but it's crucial that you detach from all the emotional stuff and focus only on practical stuff), and get a solicitor to sort it all out. Keep resolute on this.

Twunt is moaning to everyone who'll listen that he 'doesn't have a pot to pee in' after 'Saffy fleeced me'. Well, there you go Twunt - that's the reality and fallout of the equivalent of throwing your family under a bus. I couldn't give a shit where he lives, who with or what he pees in!

You're doing well, keep focusing on the end game, and what you need for you a daughter to rebuild your lives - because you will.


Proudnscary Tue 04-Sep-12 07:52:31

I tend to think of all the scenarios, Trib's is right. It's not that mediation's made him feel guilty, it's that he wants to avoid it and facing up to form E. And he is hiding something money-wise - either debts or something to do with plans with OW or both.

Oh and yes re Mike Leigh film! Alison Steadman plays OW blithering on non stop ('Got your little bags, boys? Ooh look a little Spanish restaurant, why don't we get a couple of jugs of Sangria, oh I LOVE that leather bag...anyone fancy buying it for me? ha ha ha ha'), Timothy Spall as gormless twunt rapturously listening to her ramblings , and a damp-eyed Jim Broadbent as nice but long-suffering cuckold OM.

Look they are having an affair and they have been for a long will out in the end one way or the other but you are past all that you are truly moving on.

You will be the winner in all of this. You will be the one who can hold your head high. The one who never let dd down. You'll have the house and money and hopefully a new bloke (in a year or two...<stern look>) x

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 11:35:25

lol at Proud. One thing the date proved is that Im not ready for a new man, but it was really nice to get out and enjoy a walk near the sea. I have told him that Im not ready for a new relationship, but we will keep in touch.

You are right that I am the winner. I still feel the sense of rejection, that my H walked out and no longer loves me. He was all that I ever wanted and I wasnt good enough for him. But he is the loser. He is 48 and has nothing.

I have let everything get on top of me again, the house is a mess, Im behind with my work, there are baskets of washing everywhere (it is clean, lol), but my DD starts school on Thursday (queue tears from me no doubt), her father is in Majorca, so missing one of the most important days of her life IMO (his loss).

I am going to do some work and housework every day while my DD is at school, I am going to declutter, I am going to sort everything out bit by bit.

And start again.

ForeverAutumnNow Tue 04-Sep-12 13:06:14

" I wasnt good enough for him".......NEVER believe that for a nano second Skye. From all that you have said, I feel that it was the other way round. You adored the man, and played every role - wife, lover, friend, mother - meeting his every need, and being the stronger partner. Ultimately though, it was that very strength that was your downfall, when a simpering OW appealed to his "masculinity" with her neediness. Needs she should have been having met by her own husband, not yours. From then on you didn`t stand a chance. Be proud of the fact that you left no stone unturned in an effort to save your marriage. Now sadly, your head knows exactly where you are at, but it will take a long time for your heart to fully catch up. It will do though, and you will have everything that you deserve.......just be patient sweetie.

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 14:20:27

Autumn thanks - you are right. I am way better than him. This is something coming out of counselling, that I end up with men who need "rescuing". She has identified a pattern..... and when he had enough of being looked after, he found somebody who needed looking after, which wasnt me because I am strong and independant. Except I did need looking after because I had lost 3 close family members in 12 months and started my own business. He just couldnt see it.

I am strong, I am independant. I have everything, he has nothing. and repeat!

Dozer Tue 04-Sep-12 15:24:06

Hear hear skye! wine

v envy that you can go on lovely walks by the sea! Even if the man was a bit wet.

Hope DD's first day goes well, my DD1 starts too, she has been to the preschool so fingers crossed. You will have more time in the day for work and stuff.

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 15:38:59

I am so pissed off though that he is in Majorca - the man who sat in MY living room and said - we just want different things out of life - like what - well you want holidays and I dont, I need to concentrate on my business (said in an angry stressy voice), me saying but everybody needs at least one weeks holiday a year and we never spend much, we only go to a holiday park - Yes, but I cant afford it and I cant take the time off work.

Summer holidays - Will you have DD one day a week. - NO, I never know what work I will be doing - BUT you could take off a day a week. - NO I have to work.

Uniform - yes I said I would pay for it, but I feel that in return I should be updated on what DD is up to. Things are very tight for me too you know, I have to be able to afford to live (yes with your gym membership and your contact lenses all while your DD cant afford to have swimming lessons...)

oh and by the way Im not around for a week in September while I fuck off to Majorca and get pissed with my OW and her H and her mum and dad and her best mate..............

Bastard. He sat in my living room and said that he wouldnt go on holiday with them. He said he didnt like holidays. He said work was more important.

He is a useless fucking dickhead waste of space. I want to rant it all over facebook (you know what Im like grin) or text him.

BUT IM NOT GOING TO. This is why Im here now, getting it out.

We had a holiday in March, after he came back and I agreed to him being available to take work phone calls even though it would ruin our holiday to a degree, as it was the only way that he would go. (Then he spent the holiday glued to his phone texting OW.....). We had a cheap The Sun holiday every year as its all we could afford, apart from when I did extra work and saved up for a lodge out of season. I would have loved to have gone abroad but we agreed we couldnt afford it and would wait until DD was older.

I know that none of it affects anything now, I know that we are getting divorced and that its what I want, but it still upsets me, that he lied to me so much. If he just wanted to walk away, why make up so many excuses....

Sorry to rant on, I just need to get it out sometimes!!!!!

Proudnscary Tue 04-Sep-12 16:27:57

Rant away, Skye. He's hurt you and lied to you and treated you badly sad - more to the point the stupid old fool's had his head turned by a manipulative OW and is trotting after her like an obediant puppy. She's all he can think about or see.

I hope your dd has a fabulous start at school, I'm sure she will. She has you there every step of the way and that counts for so much.

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 16:58:29

Thanks proud - thats how I always describe him regarding OW. I know from experience that he has this need to please and be thanked and loved. (It all stems from his mother always criticizing everything he ever did and never praising him for anything). So I say he is running around after OW wagging his tail and getting pats on the head for being a good boy.

When she was sending texts saying "oh you're so sweet" and "oh you are so kind" and "oh you are so lovely" and he has got a stressed out wife at home who's had it up to here and a wilful demanding child......... he took the easy way out and went running after the lovely lady who would pat him on the head and tell him what a good boy he was......

Dozer Tue 04-Sep-12 17:20:08

Rant away skye (but not on facebook!)

don't think OW is even the main issue, sounds like he was heading for a car-crash with work / money / parenting for a long time because he is inadequate and can't handle normal life: nothing to do with anything you were like or did, all about him.

tribpot Tue 04-Sep-12 18:35:21

How was your dd's first day of school, skye? I have to say, I hadn't really clocked until yesterday that he was going to be away for her first day. Of all the selfish twatting things to do. How can he not want to see her first day of school? (I know some people on MN are less sentimental about being there on the first day but I think most people would at least want to hear all about it in the evening afterwards).

What's particularly hurtful about the holiday is the fact that he couldn't even be respectful enough to make up a genuine reason for leaving you - he just said some bullshit that he then backtracked on when it suited him better. So you are still left without any real closure about what caused the marriage to fail, just his bullshit reasons that you have no reason to believe are real. It makes moving on very hard.

Remember the OW has not needed anything of him yet except some emotional support (I know she has had a tragedy in her life). She certainly hasn't needed anything of him that requires him to put someone else before himself, to do something he doesn't want to do for the sake of the greater good. He can be a noble knight on horseback in word but not deed. You actually needed him to deliver - to be an adult.

You projected a persona of the man you wanted on to him and he (the chameleon) pretended to be that person whilst it suited him. OW has done the same, with the same result. You really must not think he was all you ever wanted - that man does not exist.

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 18:56:59

Thanks, wise words as always. DD starts school on Thursday. He went away today. I told him he was away the week that she starts school and he said it was my fault because I hadn't told him when school started hmm . I said he could have looked it up on the website the same as I did but it just hadn't crossed his mind........ He didn't even think about it.

My friends H took the day off work for both his girls first day at school....

nkf Tue 04-Sep-12 21:21:55

A pension fund is an asset. You need form Es. You really do.

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 21:24:50

He's got a fund of around £16000, he's not paid in for years. I dont want it, He had it before we met, i just want the house.

skye I applaud you for wanting a clean break, and soon - and I quite understand your "I don't want it" stance- but you really do need to do the Form Es, because you may not be fully informed about what you should have from him by way of support... and you do need to protect her interests.

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 22:14:34

He left here with a £10k overdraft, £5k on a credit card, and with tax due of £3.5k that he didn't have. He was owed thousands by customers and owed thousands to his suppliers. He had no savings at all.

He then bought an expensive laptop (same as OW hmm) a printer, loads of new clothes, a second van, booked a holiday to Majorca (queue more new clothes no doubt, plus spending money).

He has nothing. He is an idiot to walk away from the little he is entitled to in this house but he is still doing it.

I predict he will be deeply in debt within twelve months.

50shadesofgreyhair Tue 04-Sep-12 22:38:07

I think you should do the Form E too Skye, I really do. You don't want to get lumbered with any of his debts, and if he doesn't want to disclose, tough! Good luck with dd starting school.

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 23:13:22

I understand what you are saying, but I know that he has nothing (unless he has won the lottery.....). I did think he should still do form E, but this is just typical of him now isnt it? I got accused of organising and controlling his entire life, but without somebody to help him, hes not capable of doing bugger all... I packed up all of his paperwork (after taking copies) and put it in a box for him. then when I asked him to change his direct debits, he said could I give him all the paperwork.... I pointed out that he already had it!

He's even passed all of his accounts work onto somebody to do, when he has plenty of time to do it himself and is capable as he used to do it before I did. So yet more money going out unneccesarily.

If I insist on form E, then it will just hold everything up even more. I will see what the solicitor says, but I dont want to delay things more than necessary.

I just want a clean break. I honestly dont know what is going to become of him. Its no longer my problem

tribpot Tue 04-Sep-12 23:26:04

I'm sure your solicitor will have the right advice, skye. My concern would be when if he fails to make his child support payments the absence of a Form E could create further difficulties.

skyebluesapphire Tue 04-Sep-12 23:37:04

|Yes, that is my main concern. i thought that we were going to put the maintenance in place, along with the house transfer. i dont know who these things work, but I told my solicitor I need it all as water tight as possible.

I have to be prepared for the fact that he will come down to whatever the CSA amount would be. If he is self employed his income could change from year to year, so I dont know how they sort that out. and what about inflation? because £60 a week now, is not going to be £60 a week in ten years time? IFSWIM.

Balderdashandpiffle Wed 05-Sep-12 07:30:52

What you're entitled to for child-support is 15% of his salary after deductions.

This is due to change soon though.

Midwife99 Wed 05-Sep-12 07:31:42

Inflation has nothing to do with it, it's based in his income although the rules are changing in November to gross income not net. I think they're introducing an annual income review too.

skyebluesapphire Wed 05-Sep-12 07:46:56

That sounds good, do based on gross income I would get a lot more. The only trouble is, because he is self employed, his profit will change year to year so if he does badly I could get less.

an annual review could be better or worse!

Morning skye

Can I reiterate about considering Form E? I can fully understand wanting to get a clean break & move on, I was the same, but my lovely solicitor persuaded me to go for pension share as "you never know what will happen when you retire"

I was glad I did as I now have a (small) pot waiting to top up my pension on retirement, something you don't think about when younger & in the throes of a divorce.

I would bet my bottom dollar on him hiding something.

That said if you getting the house equates to more than if you split the whole shebang 50/50 then go for it. See what your solicitor says. I'd go for a lump sum too if you can as a cushion against fluctuating future CSA payments.

skyebluesapphire Wed 05-Sep-12 08:49:25

I just want the house. He has no money for lump sum or anything like that. We put on my form E that i wouldnt touch his pension if he signed the house over. He can't afford to pay into it so it won't get any bigger .

I pumped £88k out of my last house and put £68k into this one and paid off £10k of his debts. The rest went in legal fees stamp duty etc. there is now £75k equity in the house. So I'm gaining and he is quite literally walking away with nothing.

Doha Wed 05-Sep-12 08:53:10

Skye love

You paid the deposit for the house and the legal bits and paid of his loan.
Please do not say he is walking away with nothing--he has had a debt paid off using your have equity of 7K in your house now.
Stop being so bloody kind and considerate. Take what you and your DD are entitled to. No more playing the nice guy coz your twat of an ex doesn't deserve it

skyebluesapphire Wed 05-Sep-12 10:14:01

No he doesnt derserve it. Im here on MN running around trying to wash and dry brand new school clothes, before labelling them, while trying to do wages and VAT for my clients, look after three children (neighbours kids here while she's at work because her ex who usually has them is in hospital).

My DD starts school tomorrow. I would say one of the milestones of her life and that prick is in Majorca sunning himself. We never went abroad because we couldnt afford it!!!!! (need to get a grip and slap myself)! I am looking forward to a probably wet week in a cold chalet in October. BUT I am seriously looking forward to it, because it will be a week for me and DD to spend time together, go swimming, to the park, and watch the Sid and Lizzie show night after bleeding night but it makes her happy and thats my main concern at the moment.

I will do the things for her that he seems unable to do. He can play Superdad for 8 hours a week and one whole weekend a month. When she is old enough to understand, she will know who was actually there for her during her childhood and who walked away.

I did offer him 9-6 on Sundays as it was 10-7 and I didnt want to take an hour away from him, but he said 10-6 was fine..........

skyebluesapphire Wed 05-Sep-12 15:26:13

Ive spoken to my solicitor today and got an appointment next Monday to go and sign some forms. He has had a letter from STBXH's sols stating that he will sign the house over to me upon being removed from the mortgage and other financial responsibilities. (this doesnt include maintenance).

[cheers] well done!

Hopefully your sols (if they're good) will be able to advise you as to the best way to move on the finances.

skyebluesapphire Wed 05-Sep-12 18:44:02

Twunt text (from Majorca)to say Can I ring DD. I said just at 6yo neighbour's having some birthday cake. He said I'll ring tomorrow then, just wanted to wish her all the best for school. I text back, No, you can ring her tonight, we will be home very soon. He text back "Im just about to go out, and Im leaving my phone here. I will ring her tomorrow".

I text him back and said "Whatever. You decide which is more important"

So I texted when we got home 15 mins later and he did ring her... She then told him how she doesnt want to go to school etc, so he's heard it for himself now. After speaking to her, I text him and said "Thanks, she is very worried about going to school, perhaps you could ring her tomorrow to see how she got on". He text back "Thank you. She IS VERY important to me. I will ring her tomorrow night."


tribpot Wed 05-Sep-12 18:54:55

"I'm leaving my phone here" - Jesus, of all the weak-ass excuses to offer. And after making such a friggin song and dance about not being allowed to see her in the parade, why is it apparently much more acceptable for him to be out of the country and not seeing her first day at school??

skyebluesapphire Wed 05-Sep-12 19:26:48

So its not just me being unreasonable and bitter and twisted then? LOL.

Thinking that he is a twat who kicks up over minor things, but then misses out on major things by choice.....

Because he makes out that Im a bit crazy and deluded for not thinking that he is superdad who loves his DD soooooo much :-/

natsmum100 Wed 05-Sep-12 19:31:44

I have been lurking on your threads but am now delunking to say how lucky your DD is to have you. What shines from all your posts is your love for her and how you put her first.

Hope everything goes well for her tomorrow. Good luck, Mini-skye.

tribpot Wed 05-Sep-12 19:32:53

What I did mean to say earlier about his holiday - you never went abroad because you couldn't afford it. He still can't. He's just happy to build up his debt as long as it's for him.

But missing the first day of school is really taking the piss.

skyebluesapphire Wed 05-Sep-12 19:34:21

natsmum - thank you so much. It was the one decent thing that STBXH put on the letter to me.....

"First can I start by saying you are a good mother and we have shared some good times together".....

shame the rest of it was a complete character assassination!

I'm luck to have her and she is lucky to have me )hopefully grin)

brianbennettfan Wed 05-Sep-12 19:42:12

Hi skye,

He is a selfish arse who will one day get his comeuppance. And you are not in any way being unreasonable. It is murder when you have to teach someone how to be a good father to your child/ren. Been there, seen the video etc. He is the one who is crazy and deluded if he thinks that he can pull the wool over your DD's eyes long term when it comes to his level of commitment to her.

I wonder how the holiday is going. Hope he likes the heat - apparently it is BLOODY hot over there at the moment. Hugs to your little one. I hope she is OK at school tomorrow. You will shed a tear or two. I bet she looks a picture in her uniform.

Yep you are lucky to have each other & have that twunt out of your lives, although you wouldn't have chosen to.

I can understand how you want the house, & TBH if you know his finances that well sounds like a clean break is to your advantage.

Don't let him wriggle out of maintenance though grin

Just a thought <suspicious> He hasn't won the lottery has he? Or inherited some dosh?

I know it sounds daft but he would have to give you a share so wondered if he wants out & you sorted before you find out! grin

oh & NO you are so NOT bitter & twisted although it would be totally understandable if you were!

Oh yes & good luck to Mini-Skye I'm sure she'll look Very Grown Up in her uniform!

<tissues & brew will be ready!>

lifeshocker Wed 05-Sep-12 20:43:05

Good luck for your little one tomorrow. Can't believe her dad is choosing to miss that what a selfish arse
You are a brilliant role model to her you have a good job, own your own house and are there for her 24/7. How does he compete with that?
you wait your life will get better and better as his will start to go downhill. someone on here once told me life is a marathon not a race long term you are better off without him

skyebluesapphire Wed 05-Sep-12 20:44:54

Thanks so much everyone for the support. It does mean a lot. I've been quite stirred up again, what with him going on holiday and her starting school, but we have a lovely weekend to look forward to and then next week I have solicitor, Councelling and more mediation.

Divorce is marching ever onwards. I'm way ahead of people who separated months before me. Lol.

I hope to have it all sorted by Christmas and to be able to start the new year afresh.

BlooMoon Thu 06-Sep-12 07:28:08

... to say I hope Mini-Skye has a fantastic first day at school!
I've been reading right from the beginning, and think you are doing just grand. Well done! Onwards and upwards, as they say...

Good Luck today Skye and Mini Skye have a great day.

My DD2 starts school full time tomorrow which is also her 5th Birthday, which she thinks is the bestest birthday present eveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer (her words)

Good luck Mini-Skye & big hugs for Mummy, it may be a bit dusty at the school gates so don't worry if something gets in her eyes....wink

tribpot Thu 06-Sep-12 07:54:21

Good luck mini-Skye! And best of luck to Little Miss WheredidIputit for tomorrow as well.

Proudnscary Thu 06-Sep-12 07:54:24

Good luck Mini Skye from Auntie Proud wink!

MsPavlichenko Thu 06-Sep-12 08:42:16

Am a confirmed lurker, but wanted to wish your DD good luck for today! Such a special day for her, and you. Bound to be bittersweet, but I hope you enjoy it, and get lots of lovely photos!

ForeverAutumnNow Thu 06-Sep-12 09:20:30

Thinking of you - and Diddy DD - today Skye. Be proud of yourself for the great mum you are, and treasure every smile and tear, whilst making beautiful memories. Memories that stay with you throughout your life.

skyebluesapphire Thu 06-Sep-12 10:06:32

Thanks so much everybody. DD has gone off to school, after posing for lots of photos on the front doorstep (with cardi, with sweatshirt, smiling, not smiling), lol. She was a bit clingy when we got there as the neighbours kids who are her friends have just gone up to Class 1, which is around the corner, so she is a bit sad. But there are 27 kids in her class, around 9 of them are girls, the rest are boys, lol.

I did think that her father may have even rung this morning to speak to her, but he didnt. He did say he will ring her tonight. My mum rang to see her and is coming in tonight to see her in her uniform.

It makes me so sad, to see all the other dads at the school gate for their kids first proper day at school. DD must have been thinking where was her dad. It will come out later, it always does.

I'm now trying to crack on with a VAT return. Have achieve sod all in the past half hour....

Its nice to see some lurkers coming out of the woodwork, I sometimes wonder if I am talking to myself and the few lovely regular supporters, so its nice to know that somebody else is reading, lol.

I hope you all have a good day and thank you all for your support. Today should have been so different, breakfast with Daddy, Daddy walking her to school as well. Thats the thing that breaks my heart, not her going to school, but the fact that he chose to walk away from her and miss these moments.

It is very much his loss. He will never get these moments back, ever.

Quite right HIS loss , he will learn to regret that choice....once the shit hits the fan with the menage a trois.

But then maybe not as that would mean conceding he was wrong and that sounds like it would never happen?

You are definitely not talking to yourself! I read these on my phone most of the time (on train on the way to work!) and hate posting on my phone, so I always think "must post later" - but HAD to write something about your lovely DD's first day ....


My best friend from Uni days, my flatmate for 3 years, was a young man raised by his mum after his Dad walked out. He was fascinating about it all; he once aid "my father's alright. But he's not a Dad. Mum has always been Mum and Dad to me, and I'd like to say how sorry I feel for myself about that, but really, I don't. Knowing my father as I do, I don't think I missed out on much. I think Mum had the right idea, she's certainly never made me feel like I was to be pitied. I am lucky to have had the childhood I had, the mother I had, the chances I've had."

He never felt sorry for himself that his dad wasn't around. He was totally sure that his Mum had done the best job in the world raising him. He saw his Dad a bit and, frankly, saw through him. He was 19 when we had that conversation (and now a 30 year old professional who's been married for 4 years, still a top dude). He's a great person. I think it's understandable that you feel sorry for your DD because this wasn't what you had planned for her or you - but it doesn't mean that it's not better for you both than the 'storybook family' would have been. Don't let's pretend that it's all ruined for her at the grand old age of 4!

This could be the making of you both smile

Proudnscary Thu 06-Sep-12 12:47:32

And to add to what blackcurrants says above...although it is very painful and poignant for you that twunt wasn't there, she really might not have noticed all the dads. Although you feel it keenly, in reality not all the kids had both parents there did they?

Don't get me wrong, your stbx is LAME FUCKWIT for not being there. My dh wouldn't have missed our dc's first days for anything. But you may be projecting more than you think in terms of her missing out.

I hope she has a lovely day (morning?). I bet she will love it smile

blackcurrants sniff what a lovely story thanks for posting that it's good endings like that, that make us LP's think we'll do OK really.

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 06-Sep-12 13:39:27

Hoping your DD has a good first day at school - a special milestone indeed smile

My FIL walked out on his family for OW, although he saw his DC on a regular basis, he struggled to put their needs first. In the end his DC lost all respect for him, with DD estranging herself from him but he could not understand why they felt like this and always justified himself hmm. Fast forward a few decades - he died alone with his still estranged DD refusing to attend his funeral. He did indeed reap what he sowed.

Bossy You're welcome! smile He's a super chap, I've never fancied him (don't go for blonds myself!) but I love his wife, we get on well and it's clear he's a good partner... so yeah, I think LPs can do it pretty bloody well!

As I always remind myself, even us smug marrieds are only one terrible car crash or whatever away from lone parenthood. Much as I think I'm perfect and wonderful, I like to imagine DH would do a pretty good job without me. And I without him. We all do our best, don't we? And I do think it shows, when people do.

Folks used to say "ooh, he's a good lad, that one. He's a credit to his mother." That's what I aim for! And Skye your DD will be a credit to you, because it's you who are going to do the hard and rewarding work of raising her.

skyebluesapphire Thu 06-Sep-12 16:52:27

What did you do today DD??

I did nothing. It was pants, which means everything is ruined. Everybody was naughty but not me and XXXX. I looked after XXXX. I ate my lunch. I told the teacher that my bedroom floor is covered in crap. (wonder where she got that word) ... blush blush We sang Hickory Dickory Dock and Wind The Bobbin Up. Then we sat on the carpet and went home.

She had a good day then wink. My dd1 has just gone into yr 4 and has done 'nothing' everyday since reception.

tribpot Thu 06-Sep-12 19:42:15

Well I'm exhausted reading about your dd's busy day, skye! LOL at the crap comment, I have no doubt my ds has said the same (and it's true).

skyebluesapphire Thu 06-Sep-12 19:57:33

yes, I seem to recall saying to her the other day, Oh My God, your bedroom is just covered in crap..... Now its her favourite word.

Her friends came over tonight and we had a Smartie cake which was a special treat to celebrate her first day at school. My mum came in to see her in her uniform too.

Twunt rang and asked her how her day went and told her he would be bringing presents home for her guilt presents make up for not being here dont they

She announced tonight that she doesnt want to go back to school because Im not there, so could I become a teacher so I can go in every day and then she can give me cuddles.

Dozer Thu 06-Sep-12 21:08:32


Beckamaw Thu 06-Sep-12 23:14:23

Hi Skye!
My exH missed both his DDs first days at school. He didn't see the point. angry
I feel for you.
She will grow up knowing that her Mummy was there for all the important stuff.

PMSL at the floor covered in crap!

Midwife99 Fri 07-Sep-12 06:39:19

Agree with blackcurrants 100%! At least half DD's school mates will be from single parent families by the time she's old enough to notice these things. There are rarely dads there on the 1st day of school anyway! Look on the bright side instead of worrying - she will be just like most of the others! My DD goes to a tiny village school which seems full of smug married parents. Since I separated some of the mums have told me they're either divorced or separated too or are unhappily married & thinking of getting out too. It's becoming the norm I'm afraid!

stuffitunderthebed Fri 07-Sep-12 06:57:53

Hope mini sky settles in nicely! Great to hear of your date - sounds like you've made a friend; a good confidence boost for you. Echo other posters - stbxh sounds desperate not to complete all paperwork... You only get one chance with this sky. Even if causes a delay you must must ensure you have the absolute complete financial picture before settling for anything. Have a good day.

skyebluesapphire Fri 07-Sep-12 14:13:11

There were probably half the dads there for their kids first day in reception.

Midwife - sadly it is the norm isnt it. There are four couples that have split up since Christmas in our village.

stuffit - hope you are doing ok now :-)

skyebluesapphire Fri 07-Sep-12 16:56:07

well mini Skye (love that name btw) today:

at packed lunch
sang a song
got a sticker for doing what Mrs XXXX told her to do
sat on the carpet for a very long time
came home

She then proceeded to act like a complete and utter brat and keep hitting me and shouting at me for not letting her do what she liked. and then cried because her friends that came home from school with her had to go home and its all my fault and she wants her friends here forever so she doesnt have to be on her own. (triggering my guilt that she is an only child.....)

On the up side, she is looking forward to going to the local attraction tomorrow, followed by Pizza Hut for tea.

They get totally knackered & brattish for the first half term I hate to warn you, and then seem to get a second wind.

Worth changing routines a bit maybe so that evenings are fairly low key at first, snack & a drink as soon as she gets in (mine were always horrible when low blood sugared esp DD2!!) then a gentle run down to bedtime?
Worth doing bedtime a bit earlier at first......sorry living up to my name again! grin

We found too that the little bit of reading homework they got was better done first thing after breakfast as the night times were just an ask too far
"do I HAVE toooooo???!!!!!" followed by total prostration on sofa. We also did a quick strip wash & had proper baths/showers in mornings. Meant we had to get up a tad earlier but it also meant I didn't kill them before wine o'clock!

I'd heard that, Bossy - I'm taking notes over here for 2 year's time!

DS has gone back to full time nursery now DH has gone back to full time work (works in a school) - and he's tired and grumpy too. So there it is, you are not alone skye! I hope your dd acclimatizes soon.

Bunnyjo Fri 07-Sep-12 20:29:09

Glad your DD is loving school, Skye.

FWIW, DD has just gone into Yr1 and has morphed from a little angel into a little sod wilful madam this week. We've had shouting, screaming and crying over everthing and nothing! Tonight she was in bed by 6:45pm and asleep within minutes. She's just overtired and, if memory serves me correct, will be back to my usual little angel in a few short weeks. I am certain the same is true for your DD

skyebluesapphire Fri 07-Sep-12 21:59:44

I hope so. Tonight she ripped a page out of the reading book that school sent her home with. She did it because I was working on the computer and not paying her enough attention. She wanted me to look at the book and I said in a minute..... She knew it was naughty and asked me not to tell the teacher.

I feel quite strong again at the moment. If I waver and think about STBXH I just tell myself that he had major issues that I could do nothing about.

Xales Fri 07-Sep-12 22:08:31

Finding your last post hard to answer without sounding like I am having a go at you. I am not! Honest!! I just can't find the right words to express what I want to say!

Tired and brattishness are to be expected my DS 11 is also doing it this week!

Wanton destruction of property that is not hers is not acceptable. How on earth did you handle that? Your DD needs to learn that sometimes you need to finish off some work so she will have to wait a little.

mummytime Fri 07-Sep-12 22:11:37

In my experience (3 children) they all go through a naughty stage when they start school. Part of it is tiredness/low blood sugar. It is hard but try not to take any of it personally.

skyebluesapphire Fri 07-Sep-12 22:20:05

I shouted at her. Her lip wobbled . She cried. I sat down to talk to her calmly and explained that it was very naughty and that mummy will have to pay for a new book and that I will have to tell the teacher.

I had an urgent vat return to finish, deadline today and just couldn't leave it til I had finished... She sat there saying I'm very sad mummy because you won't come in here. Then she brought the page in to me and said that it fell out the book all on its own.....

Xales Fri 07-Sep-12 22:32:52

It's so hard being a parent isn't it.

Shouting at her for being naughty when you are busy is rewarding her with attention. Negative attention being better than none if you see what I mean?

Plus she has gone from being a complete daddy's girl to one with a dad who can't even be bothered to be there for what in my opinion is one of the biggest days of her short little life so far sad Big hugs for both of you.

What else are you meant to do though? if you find the answer let me know as even after 11 years I still don't know.

I hope you got the VAT finished. I managed to get out of that at work lol

Enjoy your weekend.

skyebluesapphire Fri 07-Sep-12 23:03:47

I know. Her bad behaviour has always been attention seeking. Usually I devote some time too her and work later on but I had to notify a client if the figures and if he files it late he could fined loads of money,

It's that work life balance thing. And it's even worse since STBXH left.

But I am doing my best. I try so hard not to shout at her. I was very stressed out.

She keeps saying that she doesn't want to go to school, she wants to stay with me and do all the things that we do together. :-(

tribpot Fri 07-Sep-12 23:22:04

It's a lot of change in a very short period of time, skye. For both of you! I think the only thing you can do is big up school and how much fun she will have with her friends.

I think it's very hard for them after a day of being one of a crowd of 30 if they're used to individual attention - I'm in no way blaming you for having the VAT return to finish, that's just life. But I think I would have been tempted to say how sad the teacher will be that the book has been damaged (but without overplaying it too much as this comment could be enough to make my ds completely distraught even now).

Remember: big fun day tomorrow not thinking about daddy pissing away money he doesn't have on holiday! smile I hope you have a lovely day.

Proudnscary Sat 08-Sep-12 09:42:21

I've no real advice other than what others have said. As I've told you before I have a very challenging dd and I sympathise.

I certainly have not always got it right and I feel shit about that. My dd responds very well to one on one attention and affection (she's 8 now and still loves to cuddle up with me) - even if for a couple of minutes. But I have a busy job and a short fuse so I appreciate that sometimes it's hard not to shout/snap. When I do shout I apologise afterwards and tell her that it's not her fault, that mum should be able to control her anger - after all it's what I'm always telling her she should do!

Funnily enough, as others have said, I have always been very hardcore about them not tearing books and she never has. The mantra was 'books are precious'! It is quite destructive and I agree she needs a talk about that .

Proudnscary Sat 08-Sep-12 09:42:46

Oh and have a good day x

skyebluesapphire Sat 08-Sep-12 22:57:20

had a fab day out. DD had a whale of a time with her friends. We got there at 10am and didnt leave til 6pm when it closed and then went to Pizza Hut on the way home. Got home at 9.30pm with an exhausted DD. Tomorrow afternoon I am taking her and a friend to a classmate's birthday party. She hasnt had time to miss daddy at all. Although she did mention him today as we previously went to the attraction with him. But now we have new memories of the place.

She was a bit of a brat again though. She keeps hitting me all the time when she doesnt get her own way. I count to five which usually works, but not always..... But once she has been naughty, five minutes later she wants cuddles.

She went mental in Tesco because I wouldnt let her push the trolley, but she is 4, can barely see over it and cant push it in a straight line! She sat down on the floor and cried eventually, so I just left her to it, but kept an eye on her.....

My friend had to have a word with her several times today. She listens to her. She said she is good as gold if Im not there. She knows which buttons to press with me and she punishes me by being naughty......

am dead tired now and looking forward to a lie in tomorrow. If she wakes up early we will watch Tom and Jerry in bed :-)

Glad you had a fun day !

Sounds fantastic, Skye - so glad you had a good day! Hope you got a lie in too smile

skyebluesapphire Sun 09-Sep-12 21:06:21

I did get my lie in. DD didnt agree though. I must have drifted back off to sleep and when I woke up she had climbed on a stool and let herself into the living room and kitchen... (I have catches high up on all the doors to stop her going into the kitchen etc and eating all the chocolate she can find.......).

Anyway, by the time I woke up and realised she was gone, she had eaten four frubes, 4 Diarylea triangles and 4 chocolate mousses. She is 4 so has to eat four of everything apparantly......

And then I discovered that she had ripped up one of my childhood books, Little Town on The Prairie, that I have been re-reading. That book has survived 30 years and now she has ripped all of the pages out. I was furious with her. I didnt shout at her but I did tell her that she had been very naughty. She didnt have the tv on at all this morning because of it.

Anyway, twunt rang her tonight (from Majorca still) and had a chat with her. She told him that she doesnt want to go to school any more, He just said that everybody has to go to school and to be a good girl for mummy.

Its interesting now because he says I Love You on every phone call and she never says it back to him....... but she tells me later on that she does love him

Rowanhart Sun 09-Sep-12 21:32:08

Oh Skye, ripping up your childhood book breaks my heart :-(
That would be awful to me. I'm about to have my first DD and now I'm going to hide my books.

Btw I missed what hapoened at Michael Macintyre? I've missed it.

skyebluesapphire Sun 09-Sep-12 21:55:45

Most of my childhood books are still at the farm with my parents, up in the loft. DD probably wont ever want to read them as they are all yellow and have had mice running over them..... and of course by the time she is old enough to be into The Famous Five, she will want a kindle and wont be interested in old fashioned paper books,,, lol

the MM show was fine. We allowed over 4 hours for a 2.5 hour trip, but got stuck in Bank Holiday traffic, parked the car at 8pm as show was supposed to start, but MM went on state late. BUT it meant that we had to squeeze past OW and her H and friend to sit down... I said thanks to her and Hi to him. He said hello in his usual way and that was it. I made sure that I laughed a lot and chatted to my friend all through the interval. They couldnt get out of there fast enough when the show ended, lol.

Rowanhart Sun 09-Sep-12 22:01:21

Ha. Bet she didn't know how to take that! Btw have you ever considered its her mate who is OW. She seems to be around a lot doesn't she.....

skyebluesapphire Sun 09-Sep-12 22:06:05

I did think about that and I did ask ex about it, but he only got to meet her after moving in with them. She is about half his age. He said she wasnt his type, but who knows, lol.

stuffitunderthebed Sun 09-Sep-12 23:46:15

How's you and mini-sky? We've had an ace birthday weekend! I had a wobble whilst BLADDERED last night and text the 'stag do ghirl'... Thankfully she didn't reply. So, lovely, what are your plans for this week and how are you feeling? (Sorry for hijacking...) X

skyebluesapphire Mon 10-Sep-12 00:22:43

stuffit - sorry you had a wobble. Hide the phone when you are drunk! Im glad you have had a lovely weekend and Im glad that you are doing well.

Mini-skye really doesnt want to go to school tomorrow. All I can get out of her is that she doesnt want to eat her packed lunch there. i will try and have a word with the teacher tomorrow. Maybe she can eat it in a different room or something.

stuffitunderthebed Mon 10-Sep-12 01:10:03

Thanks for the advice - reckon you are right! Hope wee skye will eat tomorrow and be ok. Yes, have a word with her teacher. Sure it will get sorted x

Proudnscary Mon 10-Sep-12 06:55:19

Hi Skye - actually now she's ripped up another book, a book that's precious to you, I do think it's a cry for help.

It's such a destructive act.

I'd talk to her a lot this week about her feelings. Her not wanting to go to school, the book ripping and not telling Daddy she loves him...doesn't take a genius to work out she's angry and unsettled about twunt leaving.

I would also definitely talk to her teacher about all of this - does she/he know about her dad leaving? It's the kind of thing they need to know.

Plus that's an awful lot of food she wolfed down, is that a new thing because that sounds like comfort eating or 'filling a hole'.

Doing a complete U turn, I'd say stop the telling off and start giving her loads of affection and attention and encourage her to talk about her feelings. Talk her through why she tore the book, how she felt when she tore it.

DoingItForMyself Mon 10-Sep-12 08:02:25

Interesting point about mini-Skye filling a hole Proud. That's exactly what I said to someone about why I'd lost a lot of weight since stbxh moved out. There's obviously stress etc, but I also realised that the emptiness I felt inside wasn't hunger, it was a space where the love was supposed to be. If poor little mini-Skye is feeling that space where her dad used to be, that's awful for her sad

skyebluesapphire Mon 10-Sep-12 09:57:57

The school know, the Reception teacher called round to my house the day after STBXH walked out, so she knew right from the start. They have kept an eye on her at school and at the end of last term said that she was absolutely fine and a lovely girl and very caring about all the younger children.

Regarding the food, she just ate all the things she liked because I wasnt there to stop her! Little madam....

I did get her to sleep in her own bed last night and she came in with me at 6am which is fine and slept again until 7.30am.

I had a good talk with her this morning and got her to school ok, although she was adament that she wasnt going to go. I told the teacher about the book and said that I had told her off and she was scared that she was going to get into trouble and the teacher very nicely said to her that she mustnt do that to books.

We had lots of cuddles on the sofa last night and again this morning before school. Tonight I am going to take her to my mum's to give her a bath, which is a treat for her as we only have a shower.

Skye I think you are both doing brilliantly & there is bound to be the odd wobble for both of you-with Mini-Skye it comes out in various naughty behaviours (which TBH any child has at times regardless of what is happening)

IMHO you are doing exactly the right thing in giving her lots of attention and cuddles but at the same time being firm on boundaries.

Also working with the teacher will help with consistancy in approach for her so you are both taking the same tack re her behaviours.

Hope you have a good day.

ForeverAutumnNow Mon 10-Sep-12 12:19:13

Morning Skye, I applaud how you are dealing with Mini Skye, but would just caution that you don`t automatically assume that everything she does is because of her daddy leaving. Whilst she will undoubtedly be affected, it`s so easy to over think the problem. She`s only four, and you have said many times that she was a bit wilful, even before he left. The destruction of the books is a big no no, but you are handling that, and making her understand that it`s not on. Looking for her favourite treats however, and eating the lot is what the crafty little sods do! I used to hide stuff in the washing machine, dishwasher, drier.......and they still found em! Keep showering her with your love, and your time, and just watch her blossom. You will soon learn to tell the difference between normal "naughty" four year old behaviour, and anything that truly is affecting her as a result of her daddy not being around.

Proudnscary Mon 10-Sep-12 15:10:38

Yes ForeverA, that's true too. It's easy to make that assumption and she needs the same boundaries as before for consistency. But still there is no harm in cutting a wee bit more slack and continuing to give her opportunity to air any feelings of anger or sadness.

Skye, you are doing an absolutely terrific job.

skyebluesapphire Mon 10-Sep-12 23:37:49

Thank you so much for your support and kind words. i am trying my best with her. She has always been a very wilful and demanding child and now its me alone to deal with it 6 days a week. But life is a lot less stressful now its just the two of us as we can do what we want when we want. Im trying to see the positives in everything now.

I feel a lot calmer most of the time as I dont have the twunt to worry about keeping happy. If I dont want to cook tea then i dont. I do the washing and cleaning when I want to, around my work.

Today I saw my solicitor and signed the consent order relating to the house. Sols holding on to it until Friday when we have mediation and then I have to let him know whether or not the maintenance is to go onto it as well. But he said its only enforceable for a year anyway... and twunt is paying more than CSA would say, although he is cutting it back from next Monday, once he is in his own house.

My mum suggested today that the timing of him getting his own place ties in perfectly with OW going back to Uni. If he is in his own house, he can ring/text her at will, whereas if he still lived with her H, he wouldn't be able to...

Time will tell on that one, it will all come out in the wash, lol.

I was talking to a group of friends yesterday at a kids party and they all said, he will wake up one day, in a few months time and think "Oh f**k - what the hell have I done"....... 48 years old, no home, no wife, no family, a business going down the pan.

Whereas I have picked up 3 new clients in the past week and my business will go from strength to strength hopefully!

I had a few tears earlier today, but I was just being sad over something silly. It always affects me when I go to the solicitor.

tribpot Mon 10-Sep-12 23:43:58

3 new clients - bloody hell, skye! There's no stopping you, girl!

Here's to a peaceful week.

skyebluesapphire Tue 11-Sep-12 00:10:39

They are all word of mouth lol. I have a good reputation and Im cheap grin

I just want to earn enough to pay the mortgage and other essentials and afford a night out once a month... I dont think thats too much to ask for......

Twunt is back from Majorca tomorrow. Shall we start a book on whether he rushes round to see her or if he leaves it til Sunday.....

You will Skye. You and mini skye in a 6mths to a year will be in a much happier place.

You be settled knowing that your home is safe, mini skye will be used to all the changes and new routines.

I'm going to say Sunday, because he has to work you know wink.

brianbennettfan Tue 11-Sep-12 10:31:54

Shall we start a book on whether he rushes round to see her or if he leaves it til Sunday..... I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, skye, you will turn
blue and pop.grin

Also, I expect he will want to spend some 'alone-time' with OW now that the two of them have had their holiday ruined with her H and assorted others breathing down their necks.
(Just call me a vile evil nasty-minded suspicious witch.)

skyebluesapphire Tue 11-Sep-12 14:04:30

lol, well he must have been back this morning and no mention of seeing DD today. Poor lamb must be tired after that 2 hour flight.... or maybe he is tired from carrying the armfuls of guilt presents for DD

I've had more counselling today. We made some good breakthroughs I think. We identified that although he said he couldnt do anything right, he turned it round on me, so that I couldnt do anything right, so in the end I was afraid to speak up about anything because he said that I was criticizing him. Then when I stopped nagging reminding him about stuff, nothing ever got done and then it became my fault for not reminding him to put out the bins or whatever....

I was his rescuer and he moulded himself into what he thought I wanted and now is doing the same for OW. I became the persecutor, not the saviour, OW became the saviour and he became the victim. So when OW becomes the persecutor, he may well turn round and say WTF have I done?!.....

Too little too late though.

Proudnscary Tue 11-Sep-12 14:39:52

Interesting - and rings very true.

Just look at everything you are doing: having counselling to understand and come to terms with the end of your marriage, giving your daughter a stable home life and a great start to school, getting full ownership of your house for you and your dd, sorting out access through mediation for your dd, using Mumsnet to vent and let your emotions out. All so healthy and positive.

And look what he's doing: <tumbleweeds>

God they are so predictable aren't they?

<cynical....has been reading too many MN threads>

Second what proud said you are taking control and that is the best revenge, as it's totally positive for you and simultaneously upsets him as he realises you neither need OR care for him and his tart/menage a trois.

skyebluesapphire Tue 11-Sep-12 16:06:51

She gave me some very good info on "The Leaver and The Left" and it describes everything very well, how he made the decision, how Im shocked, how he has emotionally checked out before I have any idea there is a problem, I just think we are going through a bad time like all couples do, he leaves.....

so he is so far ahead of me emotionally, he wants to be friends, I dont, blah blah blah.

It described the two of us perfectly....

I have been offered a regular 6 hours a week work today, which would be fantastic and help me to pay the mortgage! Just got to wait on if they want me or not. Its not an interview, but its a charitable trust so it needs to go through a committee meeting.

Sounds like you've got a great counsellor-I'm so pleased.

Also the regular work sounds fab it'll be good to have a basic bread & butter core of work, then the extra clients that come & go will be extra on win situation...marvellous grin

<fingers crossed>

skyebluesapphire Tue 11-Sep-12 17:51:35

Yes, I would have about 12 hours guaranteed weekly work then plus the rest of my quarterly and monthly stuff. And my tax credits wouldn't be affected too much either.

skyebluesapphire Tue 11-Sep-12 22:30:38

So twunt text tonight to ask if he could see DD tomorrow, pick her up from school and bring her back at 5pm. He said "I promise faithfully I will get there on time". I said ok but please do as if I cancel my childcare then I need to know that you will be there.

He then asked how she was getting on at school and we exchanged civil texts. One thing pissed me off though lol, he said "bless her" which is not a phrase he used to use!!! One of OW's face sayings though!

His last text he said "I promise I will be there at 3.15pm, I will not let you down, thanks for agreeing that I can see her..

He has reverted to Mr Nice Guy??!!

Looks like the mediation worked and has played on his guilt?. They did stress the need to him to respect each other and my need for him to turn up on time so it must have sunk in!

hmm we'll see! <cynical old bag me>

but at least he is making some kind of an effort I suppose !

izzyizin Wed 12-Sep-12 04:36:20

Reverted to Mr Nice Guy? Nah. He's just trying to rack up brownie points before the next mediation session.

cynical me as well.

I wonder if one the other people on holiday (I E her parents) have pulled him up about how he treating mini skye.

Aha izzy I think you maybe have hit the nail on the head.....grin

Anyhoo.....Morning Skye what delights lay ahead for you today? Gazillions more punters falling over to use you eager for your services? wink

<oops sounds a bit rude>

skyebluesapphire Wed 12-Sep-12 10:59:31

lol @ bossy, yes now people will be wondering what I do for a living! Things havent got that desparate yet, but you never know?!... LOL.

yes, mediation is on Friday. I'm not letting him off the hook though, we still need to sort out Christmas, holidays, etc.

so he can be as nice as he likes. He is still a useless prick.

Proudnscary Wed 12-Sep-12 11:56:53

I'm also cynical.

I bet a) OW has advised him to be more reliable/amenable and he's all about impressing her isn't he?

And b) texts are very useful for twunts aren't they? 'But Mr Mediator I have proof of the reasonable, courteous and kind way I behave - why here is the text/email to prove it'

Even so, it's all good and, whatever his reason, it's what you and dd need.

skyebluesapphire Wed 12-Sep-12 12:21:57

In the mediation, I said "I have suggested things to you and you say Im dictating to you" He said "I didnt say that" so I whipped out my phone and said "There is an email here in black and white saying just that"! Then later when I said he was repeatedly late, and he said he wasnt, I said "I have got the texts here to prove it, that I sent you week after week and texts agreeing times that you didnt stick to"!

so in mediation, he showed himself up to be a complete tosser, lol.

but yes, I am cynical about everything now. He has proved himself to be such a deceitful person and a liar, that I no longer believe anything that he says.

It would just be nice for him to stick to times. Its when I text him because he is late, that it all kicks off into an argument.

Been chatting to another fish, he seemed lovely, then he starting asking about my bra size and telling me he has a high sex drive and "needs" it every day. I really dont have the time to do it every day, lol.....

Skye I met my DH online. Anyone who initiates talking about sexy things with you before you've both (1) met (2) dated a few times and (3)YOU start the ball rolling with the flirty chat - should be ditched fast.

DH won me over by being clever and charming and funny in emails for a few weeks, then we had lunch, and one thing led to another, been married 4 years, blah blah.
now, this was in 2005 but still, people who are clearly typing with one hand and whacking off with the other are not the kind of people you're after! There are nice men online too. smile

skyebluesapphire Wed 12-Sep-12 14:25:42

I know. These aren't the people that I want to be meeting! He seemed like a really nice bloke too, lol. (dont they all!!)

The guy that I met up with and had a date with hasn't mentioned anything about sex at all, only about looking after me and respecting me. He is texting and chatting every day.

It's good to hear your story as it gives me hope that there are some decent ones out there somewhere!

Mr "wants it every day" can get it from somewhere else, lol.


Do you a list of things you want to discuss at mediation on Friday. The minimum your require from him.

IE that he has to repay any money that you paid for childcare if he decides he mini skye at short notice.

I think if he is repeatedly late you keep a log, don't mention it then wack him with a big list of occasions when he mucked you around at mediation.


Agree with "wheredid* get him to pay for childcare if he cancels at short notic or is late.

skyebluesapphire Wed 12-Sep-12 17:54:33

Well she came home on time with an armful of guilt presents including a new dress, fairy wings and lots of stickers . Oh and a Dora watch that doesn't work hmm .

So DD is over the moon.

My solicitor has sent the letter to his solicitor with the consent order so we are almost there now...

Doha Wed 12-Sep-12 17:58:59


Guilt talking
I thought he was skint hmm

Indeed doha grin

skyebluesapphire Wed 12-Sep-12 23:03:32

that is what credit cards are for...

I was so "organised and controlling" that i wouldnt allow him to build up credit card debt. Of course, now he is free from me, he can do what he likes cant he ?!!....

so wont be long i imagine before he is up to his arse in debt again. but NOT my problem anymore!!

received the copy of the consent order etc today thats been sent to his solicitor, so all i need to do is sort out the mortgage and it will all be over.

I feel sad. i am sad that he stopped loving me but didnt tell me. I am scared that I have to start all over again at the age of 40. i am sad that my daughter will grow up without her father in her life every day. I am scared that I will never meet anybody new

But I am happy that I am free. i am happy that my house will be my own, with no payout hanging over me til shes 18. I am happy that i would rather be on my own than with a man who doesnt love me. I am happy that I can sit here and drink a bottle of wine if I want to. i am happy that I can eat cheese and crackers for tea. I am happy that my DD loves me and cuddles me a lot more since her father left.

I am happy and i will be happy

skyebluesapphire Wed 12-Sep-12 23:05:20

I have also drunk a bottle of wine hmm grin

tribpot Wed 12-Sep-12 23:18:42

Interestingly, skye, he did actually have a fair bit of credit card debt when he left, didn't he? Like 5K or so.

From this I can only conclude you were not controlling enough grin

On a more serious note, it is physical proof that you were not as 'controlling' as he would like to make you out to be, or his debt would have been zero.

Glad you've had some useful breakthroughs in counselling as well - in putting the legwork in to really understanding the effect of the breakup, you've effectively zoomed past him in terms of genuinely putting it behind you. It may not always feel like it, but you will see when his carefully constructed sham-reality falls apart that emotionally he hasn't made sense of the break up at all.

skyebluesapphire Wed 12-Sep-12 23:38:03

lol at trib. yes he had cleared his business overdraft with a 0% credit card, around £8000. He then reduced his overdraft. He then spent all his tax money that he had put aside.. He did manage to reduce the card to £5K. Then when his tax bill was due he had to extend the business overdraft back to £10K.

So when I met him he had a £15K loan in his mothers name and when he left me he had £15K debt in his own name.......

He has achieved such a lot in 10 years hasnt he?! hmm

Whilst I have gone from a 2 bedroom terrace to a 2 bedroom bungalow and have an 07 car and my lovely DD and my own business. I am a success. He is a loser.

My counsellor gave me that great piece of paper called "The Leaver and the Left". It genuinely describes our situation, how the Leaver just walks and doesnt understand why the Left just doesnt get it and move on asap. I want to send him a copy of it! So maybe he can understand why I feel the way I feel.

But yes, at the moment, he decided, so he moved on. i play catch up, then I move on, while he stays there. At some point he looks ahead to me and goes OMG WTF did I do?!

My tears are few and far between at the moment, although I did want to cry earlier, but it didnt last.


You will always be both richer then him in terms money/processions and because of the ability to love and treat others with respect. And your DD will be the same as you.

skyebluesapphire Thu 13-Sep-12 10:01:03

Just walked DD to school. She insisted on wearing her fairy wings so that she could show all her friends and teachers. (These are rainbow coloured fairy wings with her name on in glitter that Twunt brought back from Marjorca). She absolutely loves them.

I want to text him and tell him that, but then I think "why should I?", the bastard walked out on us! The more friendly contact that I have with him, the harder it is for me to move on....

I have never known anybody who has just walked out on their family (apart from what I have read on here....), in RL, there are always problems that BOTH parties are aware of.

He has a massive problem, he needs counselling himself to sort it out, but I doubt that he will ever get it.

SpiderManMum Thu 13-Sep-12 10:47:04

I think there are loads of men that do but women make excuses for them. I work with a woman who's 'D'H walked out on her 9 months after they married. She told everyone at the time that he'd had a breakdown and that was the cause but after confiding my own twunts walk out she confessed that hers had done just the same without good reason or warning but was too embarrassed to say at the time.

It's a weird healing process this isn't it, I'm getting by but every now and again I just have these 'I just cannot believe he did this' moments. Like a few minutes of utter disbelief all over again. Don't think we're ever going to understand it.

Don't tell him about the wings, he doesn't deserve it and we have to stop being so nice and reasonable towards them. They are not worth out efforts. X

skyebluesapphire Thu 13-Sep-12 10:55:13

Thanks SMM. Thanks for the email the other day too, It was really appreciated and I am ashamed that I havent replied yet! I will reply later. xx

The healing process is very weird. I still have those moments of "how could he just walk out" "how could he not talk to me" "how could he turn to OW and tell her everything about how unhappy he was, but not tell me" " how could he leave his DD"

"how could a man who was so loving and caring, turn into a cold heartless bastard"

I guess we will never know the truth. One day they may well realise what they have done, when they stop thinking "me me me".

I was treated badly by a lad when I was 16, he was 17. He went off with my best mate, got off with her at a disco in front of my eyes, BEFORE he dumped me......

anyway, the point is, that around 13 years later (lol) he apologised to me one evening in the pub over a drunken chat. He said that he realised that he didnt treat me very well, that he was young and stupid and that he had always regretted it as we were good friends before that, grew up together, and he ruined it forever. It may have taken him 13 years, but I did still appreciate it.

Proudnscary Thu 13-Sep-12 12:21:52

Hi Skye - such a sweet image of your dd wearing her wings to school!

I don't even think it's a matter of 'I'm not texting him to tell him because he doesn't deserve it'. It's just a detachment/self preservation issue. It's so much better for you when you are not in frequent communciation with him.

The problem is you can't control his response and you might well get an upsetting or infuriating response (or no response).

I know a bit about this from managing my mother!

skyebluesapphire Thu 13-Sep-12 15:55:11

He texted me today to say thank you for letting me see her yesterday. I texted back to say you can see her anytime in the week, I am not stopping you, but as mediation advised, you need to respect the pickup and dropoff times. I need to start putting her in out of school club next week, so short notice is not always possible as I have to pay for it.

He texted back to say, I will see her when I can, I will not mess up your plans, thank you so much.

Has he had some sort of personality transplant? (again) because the awkward twat seems to have left the building?....

Has he had some sort of personality transplant ?

No. I think that he planning something once to moves into his new house.

skyebluesapphire Thu 13-Sep-12 19:06:06

Mm. I am very suspicious of his new found sense of reasonable behaviour...

More mediation tomorrow, let's see what it brings!

"i will see her when I can" not committing to regular contact then?

skyebluesapphire Thu 13-Sep-12 22:05:43

bossy - no still no commitment to during the week... he saw her this week as he was on holiday for a week and didnt see her on Sunday, so he did see her as soon as he got back.....

but we need to iron out tomorrow what happens from now on, as he wont commit to regular contact in the week.

I had been concerned about her seeing him every other weekend, as I thought that two weeks was a long time between visits, but she has dealt with it very well, so maybe I should suggest tomorrow that she sees him every other weekend rather than every Sunday. i would like some whole weekends with and without her, rather than losing every Sunday with her. i will discuss it with him and see what he thinks.

I would also like him to have her on Friday and Saturday nights, not just the Saturday.

I agree a whole w/e every other sounds fair to both of you & maybe one overnighter late in the week towards your w/e?

skyebluesapphire Thu 13-Sep-12 23:16:37

its not practical for him to have her overnight in the week due to being a 30-40 minute drive away. It would mean having to get her up fairly early to get her to school which I dont think is fair on her and of course due to his work...... he wont want to commit to it....

I thought she would be really upset if she didnt see him for a fortnight as he cant commit to in between, but it was 10 days and she was ok.

Its just matching up the weekends to suit myself, lol. and then I wouldnt want her to miss out on certain things, but I suppose we address those issues as and when they arrive.

Fair enough every other would give you a nice break too!

Me & Ex started ou having rigid your/my weekends just so the DD's knew where they were & it enabled us to plan our "free" w/ends. I rarely went away & still don't as can't afford to, sometimes I work, but otherwise it is nice to have a bit of time to just pootle around doing chores at leisure, lie-in etc & maybe fit in a bit of socialising too.

skyebluesapphire Fri 14-Sep-12 18:56:30

Mediation was a great success today. Twunt seems to have had a total shift in attitude. He said that everything is clearer to him now and he has a better understanding of the situation and how it is affecting me.

I said I want her for Christmas Day and offered him Boxing Day. They said we could alternate each year or have a set day each year. He admitted to them that my family can give her the Christmas Day that his family cant. He said that I always have family around on Boxing Day as well, so she should stay with me then and he could have her for 2 nights afterwards...... (cynical me is of course thinking of the football match that his team is playing locally on Boxing Day, therefore he wouldnt want her then anyway....)

I asked if he was ever going to have her in the holidays. I said that the kids had to take in a shoebox with what they did in the holidays and I could not put one thing in it that she had done with him in six weeks.... I asked why he went on holiday but chose not to have her a day a week. The mediator said that everybody usually has at least one week a year holiday. I told him that I had said that to twunt but he said he didnt want holidays. I asked why he went to Majorca when he said when he walked out that he had to put work first and that he didnt want holidays. He said "I didnt mean that, I meant that I didnt want to go away as often" He said "The opportunity came up, I said no to start with, but then they asked again and I needed a break from everything so I decided to go".

He NEEDED A BREAK FROM EVERYTHING. From walking out on all responsibilities, from having his DD once a week, from not working 5 days a week, from his trips to the gym, from his shopping sprees??? Silly me, how could I not realise that he NEEDED this break from EVERYTHING!!!

Did I get a break from looking after DD 6 days a week? From working 4-5 days a week? From struggling to afford new clothes after losing 3 stone, From needing counselling and anti D's? Did I fuck.

Anyway...... he then agreed that he would have her on Mondays during the holiday period and he would take a day off to have her. I suggested Monday as he would have her the Sunday anyway and Monday is his quietest day, which he agreed was a good idea. The mediator said what if he had to work and got somebody else to look after DD and I said no, if she is not going to be with him, then she may as well be with my mum, the whole point is to see him. Twunt agreed with that and said if he had her he would look after her himself as that would be the whole point of it.

He is being very reasonable and seems to understand more what it is all about.

I asked him to consider life insurance for DD's benefit should anything happen to him. The mediator said when would we start divorce proceedings, I said that the absolute is ready to file and the only reason I havent is that if we are still married, I get the life insurance if he goes under a bus. Queue deathly silence in the room. I wanted to laugh and I just knew that twunt probably would too. But I didnt. That was my famous sarcastic humour coming out again.....

When I left, the mediator said Well Done, I know that this was all very hard for you, you should be proud of yourself how you have handle everything. I said thanks, he walked out at the end of February and I have had a lot to deal with.

I cried all the way home again out of sadness that it all ended up like this.

Well I agree with the Mediator, Skye - well done for being so calm and reasonable and getting so much agreed - it's wonderful.

Rowanhart Fri 14-Sep-12 20:05:20

Well done Skye. Sounds like you got some stuff off your chest as well as got stuff resolved.

Mop up those tears and have a gin, you deserve it woman.

Dozer Fri 14-Sep-12 21:17:50

grin wine skye, classic on the life insurance and bus! Brilliant.

Sounds like you made a lot of progress. It's good that he's being more reasonable. But still upsetting and sad, of course.

Good one!

Hope the krispy things helped....wink

You are doing brilliantly & the mediation sessions must be very wearing but at least some agreement is coming out of them.

Is it just me though that feels uneasy when these Twunts start being all nicey nicey co-operative?

<cynical old bag emoticon>

skyebluesapphire Fri 14-Sep-12 21:33:47

It does make me wonder why. His whole tone and attitude has changed, I gathered that from his contact since last mediation and especially since he has returned from holiday.

To sit there today and say that he understand now, that he sees everything clearer now is just bizarre! but good. Its like he thought that everything I did or said was to get at him personally , which it wasnt and he seems to realise that now, that Im not being awkward and unreasonable, that he needs to stick to times etc

He said today that he will not let me and DD down, that he will always be on time as he understands now.....

I have been told he has come off facebook.... he used to do that if I put something on he didnt like, but he is blocked from my page so it cant be that... he is addicted to facebook, so I just wonder what is going on. He gets the keys to his house today and moves in over the next week while he gets sorted out, he said. OW is back off to uni next week I presume as thats when most of them go back... Is something else going on I wonder?......

Time will tell. But I only say this out of curiousity, I no longer care what is going on between them. I feel sorry for her H and it will all come out one day. It will no longer be my problem!

Proudnscary Sat 15-Sep-12 08:19:35

Skye, I mean this in the most heartfelt way - you are AWESOME.

i cannot believe all you've achieved. How dignified you have been. How you have actually made twunt see things from your point of view, to show him your requests have been reasonable all along. Everything you have got through and gone through.

I hope you can treat yourself in some way soon - a weekend away, would that be possible financially or twunt-wise? Something luxurious, a break, just for you.

I LOVE your bus comment!!!!

I completely agree that something is afoot and I am 100% sure it is something to do with OW. Either things have hotted up or cooled right down. You will find out soon enough.


Slugslasher Sat 15-Sep-12 08:33:11

De- lurking to say I think he is realising what he has done/ lost/ losing. Your clarification from your perspective in mediation and the reality of his own ineptitude is now hitting home. He may be regretting what has happened now!

Proudnscary Sat 15-Sep-12 08:39:29

Slug - I'm not sure. I think if that was the case he'd actually start trying to wheedle his way back in. I think either he has a new, exciting arrangement/plan with OW or she's given him the heave ho. Probably the former otherwise Skye would no doubt pick up on hang dog expression.

skyebluesapphire Sat 15-Sep-12 08:50:19

Thank you for your kind words. It is mainly thanks to advice on her that I have managed to be so strong. I may not have followed all advice to the letter but it did all sink in.

OW is back to uni for her final year. I'm not sure if this will give them more time to contact or less time, everybody knows students have loads of time off lol.

Twunt now has his own place. So evenings they can text/ring each other a lot easier than if twunt was living with OW's H.....

She told me her plan was to get her degree next June and then get pregnant. (who by is the question?!) hopefully not twunt as he doesn't deserve any more children....

But whatever is going on, and I honestly don't care now apart from morbid curiosity, it will all come out in the end. And in the meantime if twunt continues to be reasonable it will be better all round.

Slugslasher Sat 15-Sep-12 08:50:55

It'll happen, I'm feeling it! smile)

Proudnscary Sat 15-Sep-12 09:03:50

I think it's exactly that Skey - his own place, plenty of time to text/call/see OW.

I think they are planning to be together.

I'm afraid it wouldn't surprise me at all if they have a baby together sooner rather than later. I'm sorry.

I think this could be a lot of her interest in him - he's a father already and that makes him suitable babymaking material.

Would also explain his new almost holy attitude to parenting - to impress her and show what a wonderful family guy he is.

skyebluesapphire Sat 15-Sep-12 09:08:54

I hope to god they dont have a kid but he will be a fool if he does. We agreed not to have any more due to pregnancy complications and our ages.

He used to say that she was mental, now he worships the ground she walks on.....

Justice will be done if he ends up with a mental bitch. Maybe he will realise that I was actually pretty normal!

Proudnscary Sat 15-Sep-12 09:14:34

It doesn't matter what you and he talked about re more children.

He is under he spell and will do whatever it is she wants to keep her.

SpiderManMum Sat 15-Sep-12 10:21:07

Blimey Skye I've a horrible feeling about this too. All along I've wondered if her interest in your twunt had something to do with your DD given that her DC would have been a similar age if the worst hadn't happened. I was concerned that she would want to play 'mummy' in an attempt to replace what she has lost. Sorry, i don't mean to worry or upset you, it just feels as though there is more than meets the eye about her interest in your twunt.

Now he is setting up a new home, and has all of a sudden become Mr reasonable, I think that Proud might be on the right track. Maybe preparing for the worst through counselling might be a good idea? X

Proudnscary Sat 15-Sep-12 11:06:57

Yes so it's all the more important to sort access out if they are shacking up together (he might be realising that getting this sorted suits him too if he's going to be with OW - so he knows where he stands and can relay how it will all work to OW. How often he will have dd etc). And show OW - who is no doubt prodding and advising in the wings - what a great, thoughtful father he is.

skyebluesapphire Sat 15-Sep-12 11:41:08

It would have devastated me a few months ago, but now I just think of how it would affect DD badly. Daddy would have another child to take her place. Being the child that she is I think it would hit her very badly initially as that child would live with Daddy, although in the future it may be nice for her to have a sibling....

I have always wondered about OW's motives, regarding DD but STBXH has said that sometimes he can't take DD to their house because OW is upset..... Their DD would have been 9 months older.

Donkeysdontridebicycles Sat 15-Sep-12 13:45:37

Haven't posted on your threads before Skye but de-lurking to say have followed your journey and admire you for your courage and resilience.

You have always bounced back from adverse situations and didn't flounce when mumsnetters gave advice you didn't like. When you started posting on other people's posts you gave such kind advice often based on your own experiences.

When mini Skye is old enough to understand she'll appreciate what you've strived for to keep things as normal and stable as possible for her.

What I'm trying to say is, even if your ex is planning something in the near future I am sure you will deal with it and weather the storm.

skyebluesapphire Sat 15-Sep-12 14:14:35

Thanks. I did stick it out on here and I know I infuriated some people by not listening and I am a firm believer in doing what you feel you have to do. I have taken a lot of advice from here and as you say, I have tried to pass it on based on my own experiences.

Im not one of the Leave The Bastard brigade lol, as it would be lovely if all couples could sort out their problems and stay together, but sadly that does not happen.

DD will understand when she is old enough. I would never turn her against her father but she will understand one day.

I have come around more to the co-parenting thing. It makes me sick to have to give him information and pictures etc, as he chose to walk away from it all. But for her sake, the more we get on the better. By that, I mean communication by text or email. The day I can have a friendly chat with him is still far in the distance, probably light years away still!! He wants to be my friend and if I let my guard down and be that person, I will never get over him :-(

But onwards and upwards. At a family bbq today, just getting stuck into the wine :-)

Donkeysdontridebicycles Sat 15-Sep-12 14:22:19

Bbq sounds great and more fun than ironing smile wine

skyebluesapphire Sat 15-Sep-12 14:24:32

I never iron a thing blush and I dont seperate out my whites either blush7

Its no wonder my STBXH left me grin

The house is currently a tip as I have been working so hard, but I will tidy it up tomorrow I promise grin

ForeverAutumnNow Sat 15-Sep-12 15:04:00

Just popped in to see how mediation went Skye. Mmmm....if this new attitude of his continues, it will make things a lot easier for you, so just roll with it for now. I`ve never really bought the idea of the OW being an OW in the phsysical sense, more the full blown emotional stuff, but time will tell.

As for Mini Skye, she will start to form her own opinions as time goes on. Especially if he lets her down occasionally, as most of these part time dads do. If you have only ever encouraged their relationship, she will never be able to blame you, when/if things go wrong. You have a wonderful closeness already, and that will be strengthened, year on year. My two are grown men now, high flyers, with their own families, but sadly living long distances from me. However, they are in constant contact, and the love and respect they give me sustains me in everything I do. We are all going on holiday together, in two weeks, and I am so looking forward to it.

izzyizin Sat 15-Sep-12 16:07:41

STBXH has said that sometimes he can't take DD to their house because OW is upset

So upset that she's been out and about with twunt and dd and has been seen in his van when he's returned dd to your home?

Nah, she's not upset but if he takes dd to the home the ow shares with her deluded dh, the cuckold may get suspicious as they won't be able to resist playing happy families around dd in front of him, or it may simply be that her dh doesn't want his weekends disrupted by having a small child that isn't his around.

I suspect a considerable number of clandestine discussions took place in Mallorca and they reached the conclusion that it's in their interests for his contact with dd to be arranged to suit their agenda hence his reasonableness around Christmas and for him to, effectively, keep you sweet.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with him having any regret about leaving you and everything to do with them having realised that they'll have to divert their full attention to her h when she breaks the news that she's leaving him.

Given her propensity for subterfuge, I've long thought that she'll move in with twunt by the back door before Christmas, unless she fixes her sights on a tutor/lecturer/dean/fellow student or decides that her h is a better bet for her long-term financial security than a feckless twat.

If she moves in with twunt it's probable that dd will have a half-sibling by the end of next year and, should that occur, it's equally probable that dd will spend considerably less time with her df than she currently does.

My estimation of the twunt is that he's a spineless muppet who's largely incapable of thinking for himself and, effectively, the ow's been pulling his strings in much the same manner as you had to do to keep him upright.

The difference between you and the ow is that she'll have no compunction whatsoever about cutting the strings when she's had enough of him. At that point he may start to feel a smidgeon of regret at what he left to be with her, but this is unlikely to lead him to anything approaching a state of remorse.

As a totally irrelevant aside- what on earth is the OW's DH's take on all this?

Is he totally deluded? Stupid? Or in a panic about losing his beloved wife so deep that he will believe & put up with anything rather than lose her?


brianbennettfan Sat 15-Sep-12 18:27:50

Sorry, skye, but I think izzy is completely 'on the money' with this.
That said I hope she is wrong about the baby bit. I had this particular circumstance and it wasn't very pleasant. ExH even had the nerve to come round and expect me to sympathise with him when the OW was nagging him for a baby, then when the child was born he turned up on my doorstep on a non-contact day and demanded instant access to the kids so that he could take them up to the hospital to see the baby. Brace yourself, skye, you could be in for a rough ride. thanks

izzyizin Sat 15-Sep-12 19:45:01

The poor deluded fool dh has known the twunt for many years and regards him as his best friend, Bossy.

I therefore suspect his complacency is due in no small part to a belief that his best friend would never in a million years do the dirty on him. I have no doubt he has received copious reassurance from his dw and the twunt to this effect, plus they have the advantage of her having her own best friend to act as a beard for them.

IMO this particular pair of best friends would be best advised to set up a menage a trois with the dw as her history leads me to conclude that one thing she ain't is a one man at a time gal.

tribpot Sat 15-Sep-12 19:59:54

Yup - I'm sure I've mentioned on an earlier thread, I was once on the edges of a situation similar to this one, in the sense that it was within my group of friends. The (newly-wed) DH swore blind his best mate and his dw were only friends and that the best mate was 'like a brother to him'. The rest of us were like confused shock hmm confused. Then the dw and the best mate went on holiday together, just the two of them - I shit you not - and the DH was still claiming it was just as friends.

In that case, the dw and the best mate are now married to each other and they have a baby. Good luck to 'em! confused

skyebluesapphire Sat 15-Sep-12 20:11:50

I have spoken to her H. He is quite happy that nothing is going on as my twunt has been his best mate for over thirty years. He said there is nothing wrong with a bit of flirting or texting late at night. That my H told him last year that he was going to leave me ( but according to OWit came as a complete shock to both of them in Feb as he had never mentioned walking out....)

He sees no problem with 100 texts a day as my H is just helping OW with her baby loss trauma.....

I told him that he is in denial but it's his marriage and it's up to hi
But I consider the fact that it was all hidden from me as a huge betrayal at a time when he pretended to be working in our marriage.

The fact remains that unhappy or bit, he did not walk out until after he started all the secret contact with her.

Her H does not see a problem with any if it .... He obviously trusts my H (like I used to...)

I hope they do end up living together because it's the best punishment I could think of for the twunt. Getting pregnant wont be easy, she has to take drugs to get pregnant and my twunt has a low sperm count and a medical condition.....

Sad thing is he would probably work it out with her as she is fiery like his ex was. He said he didn't want to live like that ever again though, but he dudn't like the alternative of no arguing did he?!

Yes I remember you saying about the "best friend" bit.....poor sod.

Well it'll all pan out one way or another but as you say Skye apart from a nosey interest (in a Jeremy Kyle-esque way) not your problem! grin

Rowanhart Sat 15-Sep-12 21:14:01

I honestly think she has no intention of leaving her DH. Not when he offers security your ex can't...

I think your husband has been a sticking plaster for her. The attention made her feel better about herself.

She lost her DD who was the same age as yours and so she took your fella. I know that sounds far fetched but grief and jealousy are two very strong emotions.

I think its hughly probable nothing physical has happened. Or maybe some clandestine smooches at most. This isn't about sex for her it's about feeling some control and having someone worship her.

I actually feel a bit sorry for the woman. She must be utterly miserable to need the affirmation of someone as utterly feckless as your ex Sky.

skyebluesapphire Sat 15-Sep-12 21:25:49

I could still honestly believe that nothing has actually happened but my twunt is definitely infatuated with her. Her twunt is naive in not seeing it. My twunt latched on to the woman who told him he was wonderful. She latched on to the man offering support and telling her that everything would be alright in the end and contacting her in an obsessional way. If anybody else was contacting his wife in this way I'm sure it would be a problem.....

I think she will get fed up with him one day and his life will come crashing down around him. My only hope us that one day he actually thinks WTF have I done, but it will be far too late by then.

The truth will out one day...

izzyizin Sat 15-Sep-12 21:33:31

It must have been the shock of the twunt walking out on you that made his best friend and his dw offer him a home for the major part of this year hmm

And, of course, some 5 or more years after what was undoubtedly the very sad loss of her pfb at birth, only the twunt can provide the support she needs confused

skyebluesapphire Sat 15-Sep-12 22:02:25

I did tell his mate he was in denial as he can't see what's going on in front of his eyes, even if they aren't at it then it is totally overstepping the mark but he just accepts it as ok, even while knowing that his wife has previous!

I told her she needed counselling and she said she had one session and never went back. I was so sorry for their loss, we went to the hospital the day after it happened, saw photos of their DD and went to the funeral. We helped them move house too. Then I got pregnant snd that was it. I didn't see them then for two years.....

God knows what is actually going on or when it will come out but The truth is out there! Lol

Proudnscary Sat 15-Sep-12 22:20:33

They. Are. Having. An. Affair.


izzyizin Sat 15-Sep-12 22:44:23

Don't waste your pity on the ow, Rowan, as she's got form.

As for nothing 'physical' happening between them, you're in a small minority of one on that subject.

Bunnyjo Sun 16-Sep-12 01:31:39

Izzy is spot on the money for me. Skye, you are an intelligent, articulate, caring and compasionate lady. You have rode the rough with the smooth on here - many would have flounced and disappeared on much less than what you have faced here. That is testament to you.

I think you need to prepare yourself for the next stage, which is OW and Twunt moving in together, as someone else has suggested (sorry on phone and unable to check), but overall, I think you're well equipped to deal with this next potential bombshell. You have achieved so much through meditation, you have put your DD ahead of you every step of the way. You will ride this storm as well as you have ridden every other.

Much love x

skyebluesapphire Sun 16-Sep-12 11:40:49

Thanks. I am prepared for whatever happens. OW us off to uni this week do something will change one way or the other.

My wish would be for her to drop him and he loses the infatuation and thinks WTF have I done.!! He used to say that his mate was mad for being with OW as she was a crazy bitch...

But if they do move in together at any point, then I will feel vindicated in that I told his family what was going on and they wouldn't believe me, so as and when anything comes out, they will know I was telling the truth....

I don't honestly think it will happen, I do think that OW will just get pissed off with him at some point and just drop him. He will be left high and dry....

Just a thought but she could be clinging to her DH because as a mature student she gets no/limited grants & needs his income to pay her fees?

They probably have this deluded romaticised dream that in a few years she will be better qualified & financially independant (probably thinks Twunt is better off than he is too bet she doesn'tknow about his debts) & they will both be divorced & able to swan off into the sunset.

sighs it would be laughable if it was not so pathetic.

skyebluesapphire Sun 16-Sep-12 14:32:38

No, she earns more than her H and always rubs his nose in it. She lets him have an allowance of £50 a month.. That would drive my H mad. I did tell her all about my H's debt problems which funnily enough he had never mentioned to her..... She has been doing a five year course through her work, she has just had a full year at work and now has another full year at uni, but she is paid to do it...

She has just delayed having a baby for all that time, when in reality if she had gone on and had another child a lot earlier, she would have started to heal...

wow they sound a right pair.

izzyizin Sun 16-Sep-12 14:55:32

when in reality if she had gone on and had another child a lot earlier, she would have started to heal

You cannot possibly say that with any certainty.

Having another child after a stillbirth may go some way to fill the empty arms that ache for want of a baby to hold, but those arms will still ache for the child that was born sleeping and the mind will constantly return to that child over the years and mourn its loss as if it occurred yesterday.

Bereavement affects people in different ways. IME those left behind rarely 'heal', but time enables them to reach some accomodation with their altered circumstances.

skyebluesapphire Sun 16-Sep-12 15:28:20

I understand that, my aunt lost her only child in an accident, in 1989, a three year old girl when I was 17. She has never ever forgotten that child and thinks of her every day, but went on to have a further three children, which gave her a purpose in life and something to go on for.

I thought my broken heart would never get over losing my cousin, but you just learn to live with these things.

My mum lost a child at 2 days old and has never forgotten it, but having 2 more children gave her the family that she wanted.

I was just meaning, that by delaying the decision to have a child for a further 5 years, against her H's wishes, it meant that she never began to deal with it. He is 45, didnt want to be too old when he had a child, she decided to do a 5 year uni course and cancelled her counselling because after one session she said it would not help.

yet my H, who could never comfort me when I cried, not even when he did love me, as he was just awkward at stuff like that, seems able to comfort her about losing her DD. I tried talking to her about it, but she would never open up, which is of course her perogative, but after breaking down over it one day when with my H, they seem to have formed a bond over it........ and in her words, he can provide the emotional support that her H can't.....

skyebluesapphire Sun 16-Sep-12 22:58:30

Bit pissed off tonight, maybe I am just being too sensitive....

At mediation I said that I didn't want him taking DD to McDonalds every week as when we were together we agreed that we didn't want her eating it every week (and lived 20 miles from the nearest one anyway so not a problem.

He said it was because he had to feed her and when he is in his own place it will be different. Anyway, to get to the point...! DD came home and said that daddy and OW were teasing her saying that she couldn't go to McD's as she would get fat.

Fat is not a word I want to use around my 4yo daughter.... I feel like they were just taking the piss out of me because I do t want her to go there and because I'm overweight...

izzyizin Sun 16-Sep-12 23:03:21

Would this be the same OW who is rarely able to have dd in her menage a trois marital home because she gets 'so upset'?

If so, she is some piece of work and she needs her head banging against the twunt's for using the 'f' word around your dd, let alone teasing her about not allowing her go to McD's as she'd get fat.

tribpot Sun 16-Sep-12 23:03:27

I don't think it was aimed at having a pop at you, skye, but it was a disgraceful thing to say to a 4 year old girl.

Personally I would take her to MaccyD's yourself and talk about the benefits of carrot sticks over fries or whatnot, so she can see that it's about healthy eating and not fat. I'm really sad and angry that he would say something like that to his dd.

skyebluesapphire Sun 16-Sep-12 23:21:37

Although he has his own place and took DD there today, they had lunch with OW and her H. He has no furniture in his house...

I may email him about the comment then as I stopped my neighbour saying things like it. Every time DD would ask for sweets she would say ooh you'll get fat! So I politely asked her to stop saying it to DD as I don't want her growing up with a complex about her weight....

tribpot Sun 16-Sep-12 23:23:58

I think I'd bring it up in mediation, skye - so it doesn't kick off another flame war on email. Perhaps use it as an example of laying some ground rules about how you should resolve this kind of relatively minor dispute without heat on either side. As a side benefit, bringing it up there will shame him, since I bet you it was OW leading and him following.

Dozer Sun 16-Sep-12 23:28:09

Reckon ignore the fat comment thing (though is v annoying), you can't control what he says to DD, best to pick your battles......

skyebluesapphire Sun 16-Sep-12 23:50:42

We have finished with mediation now unless in the future we reach stalemate again....

brianbennettfan Mon 17-Sep-12 11:42:26

That would make me livid, skye, but I think trib is right and that you should manage this situation yourself. I got a bit of a telling-off from my terribly polite 4-year-old grandson the other week when I confessed that I had been to Maccy D's:

"Excuse me, Grandma, but that stuff's really bad for you, you know."
"Then I will have to be a better girl in future, won't I, Zac?"
"But it's OK if you don't go very often, so don't worry." Bless.

His goodwill towards you didn't last long, did it? I would really want to clock him one.

Step away from the Heinz tomato soup.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 11:52:40

I will just send him an email I think saying that DD has come home saying that they were teasing her about getting fat if she ate McD's and that I prefer that the word is not used around her as I do not want her to grow up with issues with her weight and that I have said exactly the same to my neighbour...

It's only because when we were together, we used to go to town maybe once a month and we used to get McD's as a treat and we both said then that we would not want DD eating it every week.

OW is obsessed with McD's and STBXH used to criticize her previously for that, because her H said that she was always moaning about her weight, but would get McD's for tea all the time...... but of course now that twunt and OW are "best friends" its ok.....

Twunt has emailed saying that he has a single bed for her but no mattress....

I was thinking that I could buy a mattress for him.... for DD's sake.. He has walked away from the house with nothing more than a crappy chest of drawers, and some bedding, towels, glasses etc that I gave to him.

Am I being too nice, should I just say F Off I cant help, or should I get DD a mattress ?!

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 12:01:29

Are you mad? He chose to walk away with nothing but crappy chest of drawers, etc etc.

Reply to his text saying 'You can buy a single mattress in (name of) bedding shop'. Let him put it on his credit card.

As for the 'f' word, say nothing on this occasion and wait to see if anything similar happens again.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 12:04:56

Ok, so thats one NO vote then, lol. It is true, he could put it on his credit card. I have been looking and the cheapest ones are about £65 from Tesco or Argos, so hardly a fortune...

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 12:13:21

That's the way to do it... tell him to get himself to Argos or Tesco, after all he's got a van and a credit card and it won't be any problem for him to buy a mattress for dd today or tomorrow.

With regard to the 'f' word, pick your battles and this one isn't worth going to war for... yet.

If it transpires that he's feeding dd Maccyd's everytime she visits/stays over with him, that will be the time to take issue and raise concerns over what he's giving her to eat and what message he's imparting to her.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 12:20:21

I did say in our first mediation session that WE had agreed when together that we didnt want her eating it every week and he said it was only because he wasnt in his own house, so I said it will stop then once you move in and he said yes..... lets wait and see.....

Not sure if he has moved in or not, lol. He got the keys on Friday, DD came home with a banana from daddys house "but he hasnt got a fridge yet so I couldnt have any yogurt".

She also brought home a Peppa Pig Treehouse set to show me, that he had bought her. This is something she wants everytime she sees it on the tv, (along with every single other toy that they advertise), so daddy has bought it to keep at his house. which is a nice idea, but more wasted money and spoiling her...

I offered him a supply of pants socks and vests to keep at his house, as my neighbour just gave me loads and he said yes and then said he would be grateful for any clothes that she could keep there. My neighbour just gave me a bag of clothes, so I can let him have some, but I think he ought to buy some himself if he wants to keep them there all the time.

Why didn't he buy a mattress at the same time like a normal person. If he mentions it again tell to get one delivered from Argos there about £100.

Don't buy clothes for dd to be kept at his house. He can get her some basic bits for her.

Your money is to support you and DD at your house not his.

He be asking for you to give him some of DD bedding next.

If he got money to go away then he got money to buy what dd needs at his house.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 12:29:03

I presume that somebody gave him the bed or he got it second hand..... not sure as no interest (other than it is safe for DD obviously!).

I did offer him some bedding, as neighbour gave me some, but he said no. He is going to take her shopping and buy her some pyjamas on the first time she stays overnight, to get her excited and happy about staying over. (that was my idea).

I will suggest that he takes her to Primark to buy some cheap and cheerful stuff.

That's what I was thinking where - if he's got money to go away on holiday, he can find the cash to get a bed for his only bloomin' child! Honestly, the cheek of the man!
[hoiks norks judgementally]


Right had me lunch (cranberry and goats cheese on toast with Rocket) I'm going to back to clearing the junk children craft cupboard and dinning room.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 12:44:40

yes, I had forgotten my stock phrase "well, if you can afford to go on holiday, you can afford:

school uniform
new shoes
a day out
a mattress!!

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 12:49:09

There's a lot of hoisted norks on this thread, blackcurrants. Mine are currently behind my ears grin

Don't suggest where he should take dd to buy clothes for her, skye. He's made it clear that in his mind he's capable of making his own decisions.

I'd be taking dd to look at expensive duds buy her a pair of socks in the swankiest shop in town and leave it to her to make her own suggestions as to where daddy can take her to buy pyjamas.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 12:54:18

lol. My norks have need hoisting because I lost three stone and all my bras were too big... Have bought some a couple of sizes smaller, so they are no longer round my ankles grin

yes, I forgot that he is enjoying making his own decisions now, (as he put in his letter to me...) funny how in mediation he couldnt make a decision to save his life until they pushed him several times for a response.....

and when they asked him in mediation about his life insurance, he said well Skye knows more about all that stuff than I do....... Yes I do, but we are almost divorced now, so you need to start taking care of it all yourself and all the paperwork is in a box that I left on the driveway one day (when I was being "cold and pathetic" in the words of OW. No it was when I was "hurt and devastated" thats when it was.....

arsehole walked away from the house because he couldnt be bothered to fill in the paperwork to get maybe £10k in 14 years.....

Donkeysdontridebicycles Mon 17-Sep-12 12:58:57

He'll manage and mini Skye won't be sleeping on bare slats of a bed frame.

(Funny how when it doesn't suit somebody, it's "nagging" or "bossing", the rest of the time they seem stuck with simple things and unable to get on with doing what other folk just cope with).

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 13:04:29

I know. he walked away from me "organising and controlling" his entire life.

Yet still expects me to sort things out for him.

Err no!

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 13:08:22

What a shame the bag of clothes your neighbour gave you are too small for dd.

Never mind, daddy can kit her out at his own expense in a not dissimilar manner to that which you do automatically.

It's time for him to join the real world of single parenting, to which you weren't given a guide and there's no reason why you should take it on yourself to guide him.

Remember, he's got the ow to call on if he should need assistance.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 13:17:23

actually, a thought just occurred to me, mini-skye is sleeping in my bed every night, so if she sleeps with him, then she won't need a mattress anyway.....

we had such lovely cuddles last night when I put her to bed.. she wanted me to go to bed too, I said no as it was 7.15pm.... but i had to pretend to go to bed. We lay there for ages all proper cuddled up and it was lovely.

We never did things like that we he was around as he usually put her to bed. We are so close now, its the one amazing thing to come out of this...

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 13:29:30

Regardless of whether she ends up sleeping in his bed, dd needs her own bed at his home and that means a bed with a brand new mattress from the time that she first stays over with him.

You really must stop your tendency to continue micro-manage his life, skye. It's down to him to make provision for dd when she's with him and you're best advised to let him get on with it without any helpful suggestions from you.

[un-winches norks a few feet inches]

Yep: stop helping him. I know you want DD to be comfortable, but really, stop helping him. He's an adult, he can google "cheap single mattress'', he can use tescos and argos and craigslist like any other adult. Christ, he's got two hands and a brain, right? You are not the parent and he is not the fun uncle, you are BOTH parents and he needs to do some parenty things.

eg: Look at my new one-act play entitled "You made your choice, sonnyjim"

Him: I've got her a bed frame but no mattress.
You: Get her a mattress then.

The end!

[massive audience applause]

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 14:06:28

Encore, blackcurrants. I'm an avid fan of minimalist theatre grin

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 14:11:15

blackcurrants, pmsl at that one. I am applauding you grin

Why is he asking me for help??!! I just feel bad because I have a house full of furniture and he has a chest of drawers. pmsl

BUT if I tell him to sort it himself, it will be turned back on me - She doesnt even care if DD has a bed to sleep on or not.......

I will give him a couple of tubs of toys as I want them out of my bloody way and he keeps on buying her stuff.....

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 14:13:22

May I suggest a slight alteration to the title of your play, blackcurrants?

'You made your choice, sonnytwunt' should ensure that it appeals to a wider audience than those who have the misfortune to be involved with sonny jims, or James's as the case may be smile

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 14:14:47

How can anything he does or doesn't do be turned back on you? And if it is, why the fuck you should give a toss, skye?

Proudnscary Mon 17-Sep-12 14:15:40

Personally <scared of the wrath of Izzy so whispers it> I would give him some extra clothes and toys that you really don't need. I don't see the point of him buying extra stuff, it's wasteful.

I would see it as a one-off offloading of stuff because he's only just moved in and needs basics for dd.

I wouldn't buy him a mattress, no way - that is actively buying something he should buy rather than giving him stuff you already have spare.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 14:23:13

ok I know I shouldnt give a toss.

he is a prick though - in mediation when we were talking about him being 40 minutes late for DD, he said that the neighbour wouldnt go back for DD until I asked her, that she refused him. He said "she would rather leave a 4yo on her own than help me". i said " No, YOU would rather leave a 4yo on her own than turn up on time! Don't you dare turn this back on Neighbour, who had to cancel her plans to get DD, when it is not HER responsiblity to collect DD, but yours!!!

It is always somebody else's fault .......

Funny how you remember things that you block out before... I remember him throwing something past me when we were trying to sort out the garage and it was my fault for criticizing him for starting on the next bit when we hadnt finished sorting out the last bit... It scared me.... but he said he was fed up with me having a go at him...

or the time when I asked him to make spaghetti for DD (open tin, microwave for 1 minute...) and he said he was too busy, so I said fine, I'll do it. Then he came in waving his arms around and shouting that he couldnt do anything right and stormed off in his van.

Another time I asked him if I could walk in front of him on a path around a castle as I was walking faster than him and wanted to keep going not keep stopping and he said then I can never do anything right.

i wasnt nagging him or criticizing him, just asking him to do something.

He bought a washing line once and I said but there is nothing to attach it to and he said guess whats coming - I can never do anything right.......

Was I a nagging criticizing cow, or was he just a useless twunt?

I think izzy has nailed something important, skye, which you should be asking yourself and maybe mentioning to your counselor.

You said: If i tell him to sort it himself he'll turn it back on to you and say "oh she doesn't care"

Izzy said: Why should he turn things back on you, and if he does, why should you give a flying fuck?

(I paraphrase grin )

But seriously: you don't value this man's judgement (he's a tool, let's face it!) and all the people he'll bleat on to about how you don't even care that he hasn't bought his daughter a mattress to sleep on will surely respond with a WTF hmm face and say "Hang on, why haven't you bought her a sodding mattress? why is it your ex wife's fault that you haven't bought your daughter a sodding mattress?"

OR they'll be idiots like the OW and say "oh noes that's terrible, that terrible heartless Skye, what a cowbag, oh poor deary twuntface, let's text all day till you feel better."

and frankly, why should you care what people who are total tools think about you?

You don't have to please everyone.
Not everyone has to like you.

Them as matter don't mind, and them as mind don't matter. Remember, all the sensible most people look at what he's done and know exactly what's going on. So he turns it back on you. Who cares? Who cares? Who takes him seriously anyway? Not you!

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 14:34:51

Surely it would only be 'wasteful' if he was spending money that he should have given to skye as child support or whatever, scary?

Otherwise I see no reason why he shouldn't be encouraged to bankrupt himself dig deep in his pockets to provide for, and indulge, his one and only dd.

"Was I a nagging criticizing cow, or was he just a useless twunt?"

After reading that list, do you have to seriously ask that question?

Check carefully and answer (a) or (b).

(a)Was I a nagging criticizing cow, or
(b) was he just a useless twunt?

HINT: the answer is not (a).

I have this battle with ex over the DD's clothes. He has not bought them a thing in the 4 years since we parted,he says that's what maintenance is for hmm they take clothes to wear whilst they are at his.
I was all for sending them in what they were wearing at first but they got upset over not having the clothes they liked over there. SO I had to suck it up & I provide them all...and shoes....and school uniform. He buys NOTHING .

It galls me when half a wardrobe ends up there but they like to take stuff back & forth so as long as it eventually comes back here its OK.

I do it for them not him.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 14:42:29

lol at above - you guys certainly make me feel better lol.

Right I need to disappear, am supposed to working and have to leave in 15 mins to get DD from school!

Proudnscary Mon 17-Sep-12 15:56:25

I do quite love the variety of presentation and medium in your posts, Blackcurrants!

First, the world's smallest play, then a Jackie magazine style quiz... what next... Twunt is grilled on Jeremy Kyle? Annhilated by Gary Barlow on X Factor?

<baited breath>

Izzy - OK OK I surrender to your greater knowledge, experience, wisdom and scariness

izzyizin Mon 17-Sep-12 16:01:01

Don't tell anyone, scary, but it so happens I'm a pussycat in RL albeit one with more balls than most grin

Proudnscary Mon 17-Sep-12 16:11:47

Ha ha! I don't believe that for a second wink

brianbennettfan Mon 17-Sep-12 17:35:34

Can I come and watch him being annihilated by Gary Barlow, please?

I heart Gary Barlow.

I Think I quite heart our Gary too smile!

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 18:59:00

Well twunt can't sing lol

tribpot Mon 17-Sep-12 19:04:45

I think "I can never do anything right" is quite a clever passive-aggressive way of making impossible for you to ask him to do anything at all. The attempt to suggest you implied criticism in the simple request - it's masterful. Stupid and tedious, but masterful.

As to this: Twunt has emailed saying that he has a single bed for her but no mattress....

Sorry - why would you need to know this, except as a roundabout way of saying he isn't yet in a position to have his dd stay overnight? (Barring any one of the ways you have thought of getting round this problem). Literally I would just reply 'okay well let me know when you'll be ready for overnight stays'. The end. He walked away with nothing because that was his choice. He's been paying a not enormous rent all this time whilst you've been running round like a blue-arsed fly trying to hold everything together.

You need to put a stake in the ground on this. He's going to try and bleed you for money because you will have some and he won't. Because you 'got the house' and he didn't. Because it's 'for dd', like it's your job to finance her contact with her own father.

skyebluesapphire Mon 17-Sep-12 20:27:30

yes, this is true. Between his drawings and what he paid me, he used to draw £1600 a month and his van finance that ended in June was £300, so that was £1900 a month. He was paying them £300 a month and me £400 a month, but I do know that he wasnt working 5 days a week, but he would have been way better off and should have been able to reduce his debts...........

he is cutting my money back to £60 pw from this week, which I know is a good amount so not complaining, but he is cutting it back before he is off the mortgage because he has rent to pay and because Im getting the house.....

Does £60 pw = £15% of his net salary?

In November it will be a percentage of his GROSS salary, not sure yet what the percentage will be.

skyebluesapphire Tue 18-Sep-12 14:06:19

He said that his solicitor told him that £37 was what the CSA would advise him to pay, but that was when he was in his arsy phase...

15% of his gross salary (he is self employed so it varies every year.....) for last year would be £57. It would be £72 if based on his gross profit before he paid me last year.....

I will have no idea in future what his profit is, but of course I can ask the CSA to get involved if he starts to get awkward again

SpiderManMum Tue 18-Sep-12 15:00:38

I've been trying to find out the new CSA gross salary % and over in legal someone has posted that for 1 child it will be 12% of gross rather than the current 15% net. I guess him being self employed is going to give him much more flexibility in trying to reduce his payments in the future than if he was employed sad

I'm about to start down the mediation route very soon Skye so I might be coming to you for advice! Not sure I'm going to be able to sit in a room with twunt whilst he tries to negotiate paying as little as possible without bursting into tears.

Post a thread in Relationships spider when you're ready & we'll all pile in & hold your hand/pat your back as you wish.....grin

we will, spider ! I have nothing but admiration for all you wonderful women who sit down with your twunts and get the best you can from their horrible mess for your lovely children. You deserve medals!

SpiderManMum Tue 18-Sep-12 16:44:27

Thanks ladies, means a lot thanks. Don't think we would get through it without the support on here. It's just such as shame the story is always the same, different twunt, same shite grin

Now there's a title for your thread Spider grin


skyebluesapphire Tue 18-Sep-12 19:42:33

Love that title suggestion Spider.

izzyizin Tue 18-Sep-12 20:25:19

Console yourself with the thought that the ow ends up with same twunt, same shite, whereas you now have the opportunity to discover whether different twunts have different shite to offer. The amusement value is immense grin

skyebluesapphire Tue 18-Sep-12 21:56:43

Had counselling today, looked into the Victim Rescuer Persecutor versus How to be a Grown Up. Guess what word is mentioned..

"giving yourself too much respect" (narcissists).

I did laugh and think of MN when I read the N word. It is true though, after telling me it was over he sat there and said "the trouble with me is that I'm a nice bloke and I just get walked over"


And she said no I shouldnt buy a mattress as its not my job to look after him now, lol.

tribpot Tue 18-Sep-12 22:09:27

It's not even your job to suggest to him how he can buy a mattress, skye!

I think it's very unlikely many people would say the problem was they were too nice and got walked over, unless that is what they were being told by someone else.

izzyizin Tue 18-Sep-12 22:40:15

Well spotted, trib... I wonder who told him that claptrap?

"the trouble with me is that I'm a nice bloke and I just get walked over"

Per-lease......she really is doing a good job boosting his massive ego isn't she? grin

skyebluesapphire Wed 19-Sep-12 12:12:35

He has always thought that he is a thoroughly decent chap, who has such a kind nature that he is taken advantage of.....

This is a man who at 48 years old is incapable of making new friends (apart from OW). He has 2 friends from childhood and that is it. He has walked out of numerous jobs, as he cannot take criticism. As soon as they upset him he is off.......

A man who walked out on me because I didnt want him to go to a football match because we had other plans, so because I organised and controlled his entire life he left me.

He cant organise his way out of a paper bag.......

I had a message from him last night saying that he has no fridge yet, but will DD eat beans on toast for tea tonight........

Ignore. he been DD father as long as you have been mother he knows what she eats, if not then he have to figure it out like the rest of us parents.

god, skye, I know I've said it before but you are well rid!

skyebluesapphire Wed 19-Sep-12 12:27:03

Thats exactly what my (male) neighbour said walking our kids to school this morning! He is her father, after 4 years he should know what she eats!

He is picking her up at 3.15 from school and taking her to his house and bringing her back at 6.30pm. We are going to see how it goes for a few weeks and if it works out ok. If he loses too much work, then he will have to stop doing it.... but by then DD will be spending one whole weekend with him a month so will be seeing him more anyway.

I'm wondering if he expected you to say that you would have dd tonight instead.

Donkeysdontridebicycles Wed 19-Sep-12 13:06:18

I can't get over how much has happened since the Spring when you first posted.

As she gets older mini Skye will twig the difference between parenting styles, not that she will love spending time with her dad any less. Keeping things on an even keel for her is the important thing and you are doing so well to focus on that, if he grasps that from mediation all the better.

quite interesting

Skip the first bit but the last 2 paragraphs are so true!

skyebluesapphire Wed 19-Sep-12 15:30:11

I can't believe how far I have come since he first walked out. I have gone from total and utter shock on 24 Feb when he walked out, to relief a few days later when he came back, to walking on eggshells for 6 weeks so he didnt go again, to shock and grief again when he left again on 8 April ....

followed by despair, heartbreak, then happiness when thought things would work out after all, followed by heartbreak again after he wrote the letter. Life then descended into a whirl of solicitors, counselling, antidepressants, mediation etc.

so, coming up to 7 months since the first time I had any inkling that there was anything wrong (ie when he walked out), I am almost divorced (absolute can be filed any time I choose)... the counselling is going well, I have got my house, I have some time to myself sometimes,.

He is sat in a rented house with no furniture grin and doesnt even know if his DD will eat baked beans....... what a catch he will be for any future mug stupid enough to go out with him.....

Donkeysdontridebicycles Wed 19-Sep-12 15:39:25

Don't know if pom poms are allowed in this section but am shaking them for you smile.

DoingItForMyself Wed 19-Sep-12 15:48:56

Got mine rustling away here too grin

I don't post so much on here anymore, but still lurk and you know I'm right behind you Skye!


skyebluesapphire Wed 19-Sep-12 16:06:24

Thanks guys. Its nice to have some pom poms shook at me, lol. Ive been shaking mine at Lou :-)

DD started cheerleading lessons last week, its just a fun thing, leading on from the holiday club that she was doing. She was so thrilled to see the pom poms and all I could think of was MN lol. Its the only after school thing that she does and she loves dancing around.

DD calls it "chewleading" grin

brianbennettfan Wed 19-Sep-12 16:22:31


Oh blow! It doesn't work!

Proudnscary Wed 19-Sep-12 18:50:50

biscuit biscuit

^Do they look remotely like pom poms?

brianbennettfan Wed 19-Sep-12 19:23:01

Actually, Proud I think they probably look more like the Duchess of Cambridge's bazooms not that Ive seen them, of course

skyebluesapphire Wed 19-Sep-12 20:26:29

Am I the only person in the whole world that hasn't seen Kate's boobs? Not that I want to, but everybody else seems to have seen them lol.

Twunt got her back ten minutes late, we said 6.30 as bedtime is 7pm. After he dropped her off he text to say that he was sorry she was late but he got her chips for tea and they took 40 minutes.... So out of the 3.5 hours he was with her, they spent an hour travelling and forty minutes waiting for chips.....

What happened to the beans on toast? Forget how to make them ?? It was his signature dish!!

SpiderManMum Wed 19-Sep-12 21:45:08

40 minutes waiting for chips??? Was he waiting for the potatoes to grow as well? Sounds very odd, was he expecting sympathy hmm

Clearly the beans on toast were a challenge too far, along with buying a mattress grin

skyebluesapphire Wed 19-Sep-12 21:59:19

lol. Ive been having a right weepy moment, really stupid, but I had a conversation about engagements today and started off ok, then ended up crying. My STBXH just proposed out of the blue on my 33rd birthday on holiday in Cornwall, with a lovely ring he had chosen himself and we married 7 months later. I was so touched when he did it.

Thinking about it today has really upset me. Where did that lovely man go?

I know that I need to let go and move on and in a lot of ways I have, but obviously I cant just stop loving him overnight..... although in some ways I dont think I do love him any more

He is just a useless twunt. WTF do I have to do to forget him and move on!!!!

I need a big slap or something.

Donkeysdontridebicycles Wed 19-Sep-12 22:14:19

I think you'd have a heart of stone Skye not to sometimes give into the occasional tear, nothing wrong with that when you are being so strong most of the time.

tribpot Wed 19-Sep-12 22:29:58

Remember, STBX is just short for shitbox, skye.

skyebluesapphire Wed 19-Sep-12 23:04:55

thanks, I am feeling better again now, Im sure its just hormonal, there is a definite pattern each month, lol.

I dont go over and over the stuff in my head like I used to, but every now and then it does get me down.

To think of poor twunt in his house, all on his own, with no furniture, no fridge, just a bed (for him and OW no doubt), it all brings a tear to my eye. Actually, it doesnt at all grin

you reap what you sow. he made his bed and now he is lying in it (the only thing he has got) what goes around comes around

and any other old cliches that I can think of!!!!!!

apparantly he does have some bowls according to DD. and some bananas. and a bath. and a garden with no grass in it. and no swing, no trampoline, no slide. she notices these things, lol

tribpot Wed 19-Sep-12 23:26:17

His massive monthly rent doesn't seem to have bought him much that's useful, skye. hmm

skyebluesapphire Wed 19-Sep-12 23:31:40

he also has some spoons and a cup. and some butterfly doll bedding for her (but no mattress...)

Every time I start to waver and think I should buy a mattress, I just have to remember that he managed to go to Majorca for a week just a fortnight ago...... probably what he spent in one day on food and drink would have paid for a mattress. the next day would have paid for a second hand fridge etc etc....

so no guilt trip for me, Im not buying into it!

tribpot Wed 19-Sep-12 23:38:39

Prick. What's the point of buying bedding with no mattress? Other than he knows that the skye-of-old would have been guilted into bailing him out.

I think you may have to steel yourself for the word going out that you 'won't even help him with a few basics' despite him 'giving' the house to you.

izzyizin Wed 19-Sep-12 23:46:05

I'm wondering why he opted to rent a 3 bedroom unfurnished house?

Is it because he and ow are planning to strip her marital home furnish their cosy love nest it together?

tribpot Wed 19-Sep-12 23:49:18

izzy I cannot believe you would be so appalling cynical as to imagine they are anything but the best of friends. This has been confirmed on numerous occasions after all, indeed I believe the cuckold H thinks skye's a bit mental for not believing the exceptionally plausible story that mates text each other hundreds of times a day, including - and I have to say this has never been fully explained - whilst in the same house.

So there is no chance. Zero, zip, niente. No chance of OW shacking up in this House o' Dreams. The very idea. wink

skyebluesapphire Thu 20-Sep-12 00:15:53

trib - yes, i know that will be the story and thats what I was worried about, yes I know why should I give a F what people think about me, but I cant help it, lol.

BUT I repeat to myself again - the man has a monthly gym membership, a monthly contact lens contract, a nice holiday in Majorca because the poor lamb needed to "have a break from everything". Did I mention how I turned down an invitation to join friends in Lanzarote in December because i cant afford it!!!!!

A couple of emails have also slipped through his old email account from suppliers asking for money... one says that they are happy to keep working for him as long as he pays them something each week. Their statement totalled £800 and goes back to June.

So poor twunt is probably in quite a financial mess ( which of course will all be my fault for taking him for every penny).

Whereas I refuse to have any debt whatsoever in my name (apart from £1K balance on 0% credit card to pay off the balance of my car as is only way I can afford to pay it....)

Izzy - I really don't know how you can be so cynical - it is perfectly normal to text your "new best friend" 100 times a day. Of course there is nothing going on, nothing whatsoever - bloody hell, a herd of flying pigs just went over !! [grin}

skyebluesapphire Thu 20-Sep-12 00:16:09

epic fail grin

izzyizin Thu 20-Sep-12 01:25:35

Mea culpa. Let this be a warning to all who read this board more than they should. How I grieve for my lost innocence sad I really should get out more...

Out.. into the real world where it i entirely natural for two supportive friends of the opposite sex, one of whom is soon to be divorced and the other who is happily married to his best friend, to text and email each other morning noon and night, and where it is perfectly usual for those friends to kiss each other goodbye when one is forced to skulk linger round a corner for 5 minutes while the other returns his dd to her dm.

Of course he needs a 3 bedroom unfurnished house. A man has to have space to give free rein to his creativity and, through no fault of his own, he can only see his dd for a matter of hours every week and have her to stay overnight once a month.

What comfort he'll find in choosing furnishings for his new abode and creating a fairytale bedroom for his dd with a sumptuous mattress fit for a princess to grace her secondhand bed. Imagine his joy as he chooses armfuls of new clothes to fill the wardrobes he's so lovingly assembled from flatpack built from scratch for her.

As for the third bedroom, maybe he'll utilise it as a room unsullied by the auras of others where he'll meditate or spend time in quiet contemplation of the wonders of life. Or maybe as a spare bedroom to accomodate close friends who may need to stay over after a jolly evening at his new local tavern, or who may have imbibed a tad too much over his dinner table.

Such is his generousity of spirit, it could even be that he offers the use of his spare room to any friends who are intent on gaining extra qualifications and may need a quiet space away from their own noisy homes to study.

Does the above pass the 'exceptionally plausible' test, trib?

izzyizin Thu 20-Sep-12 01:52:35

The need for good, bad, or indifferent, friends to text each other while living en famille under the same roof is easily explained, trib.

It could be that the music/tv is belting out megawatts, or the household may practice mauna in accordance with Hindu, Jain, and Buddhist tradition or have chosen to follow the observation of silence in accordance with Benedictine teachings.

Rejoices in re-found ability to believe the best of everyone smile

<<considers changing name to Pollyanna>>

captainmummy Thu 20-Sep-12 08:35:49

Skye - you said you were waving your pompoms at Lou - I can't find her latest, can you give me a clue?

Sorry for derail - actually I think you are pretty awesome in how you're coping.

Even my inner Pollyanna is hmm at that scenario Trib & Izzy grin

Who me.....cynical old bag? Nah.... just hang around on MN too much!!

tribpot Thu 20-Sep-12 09:51:26

Yes, you are a bunch of cynical old bags without the least shred of sympathy for the plight of a poor man who is always being put upon by those around him.


Right, I think I've got that one out of my system, I've just realised I've left my phone in the car so have to go hiking it back to the car park in the rain.

skyebluesapphire Thu 20-Sep-12 09:57:39

captainmummy have PM you about Lou.

When I was chatting to OW's H, he said that he recalled OW talking several times to my H on the phone about leaving. I said well, she must have called him then because there was only ever one phone call on his bill to her and that was 1.5 hours long, the week before he moved out. There were never any calls to her after that. Her H had no answer to that one.

After our chat, we exchanged a couple of texts that night and I said to him, why would they be texting at 11pm at night? He replied, people do it, look at us now. I replied, yes but we are not living in the same house are we??!! He had no answer to that one either.....

It will be very interesting to see what happens next as OW will be away Mon-Fri for uni. When she comes home, you would think she would want to spend time with her H, so they will not want my twunt hanging around. So it will be interesting to see what happens. Will twunt be dropped from a great height by OW??

You are all so funny; trib's post and izzy's pollyanna-ish stylings have me completely cracking up! smile

izzyizin Thu 20-Sep-12 12:24:33

OW, skye? Surely you mean SSFF*?

*--shit stirring fucking female-- sympathetic supportive female friend

izzyizin Thu 20-Sep-12 12:25:36

Mmm... shit stirring fucking female That's better smile

tribpot Thu 20-Sep-12 12:39:11

blackcurrants, izzy and I are being completely serious <peers over glasses>

Donkeysdontridebicycles Thu 20-Sep-12 13:05:21

If she's studying away from her home 5 days a week, OW will have ample opportunity to see your ex. On the other hand, raking up ancient history, didn't you say that you and he got together quite fast, didn't he move in after 3 or 4 months? Then a short engagement? She's let him make a lot of the running when you think about it. Lots of attention and adoration on both sides but nothing concrete. Part of the thrill for him and the SSFF (hmmm that phrase trips off the tongue easily) was sneaking around behind everyone's back, but now he's at his own place and therefore more available, in the cold light of day she might start to weigh up her prospects with her H and him.

I start to even wonder if they have had a full physical relationship, I know it's improbable but she might have kept him on a string with promises. More fool he. It doesn't change the fact he was at the very least enjoying an emotional affair and treating you very shabbily, all that to-ing and fro-ing, jettisoning you and walking out on DD, fabricating an imagined list of grievances.

of course, trib
[not at all abashed]

Proudnscary Thu 20-Sep-12 13:56:10

I'm reporting all of you for Old Haggery


angry hmm

Whocansay Thu 20-Sep-12 14:15:41


Dear Skye, I've been following your thread and just wanted to ask that if Twunt is getting himself into debt, he can't make you responsible for any of it can he? I would have thought your solicitor has this covered, but I don't think you have your Absolute yet, so don't want this to bite you on the arse!

Apologies if this is a really stupid observation!

<Waves pom poms! - relurks>

izzyizin Thu 20-Sep-12 16:50:58

Right on, Scary. Where would this board be without them?

I hereby launch a much needed campaign to SAVE OUR TWUNTS and I'll be the first to sign the following petition:

We the undersigned hereby appeal to all women to give their twunts the TLC they deserve:


<<skips blithely through fields of daisies spreading sunshine with the wave of a hand>>

tribpot Thu 20-Sep-12 16:57:46

In fact, skye has done a public service liberating her ex from her control so that he can go forth and be a tosser to other women as well (after all, nothing is happening with his completely platonic best friend ).

izzyizin Thu 20-Sep-12 18:04:32

Heaven forfend! Of course there's nothing untoward going on between him and the SSFF, trib.

Shame on anyone who could think such a thing - they really should go bleach their brain.

<<whistles innocently>>

skyebluesapphire Fri 21-Sep-12 00:51:51

Haha, this is making me laugh. I was chatting to a friends mum tonight and she asked me if there was anybody else. I said no, but he was texting his best mates wife over 100 times a day, and she said bloody hell, how did he find the time to work? I said yes exactly and he DRIVES for a living!!

I said but they say there is nothing going on and she said well they would wouldn't they?!!

She said he is a pathetic loser for walking out on his child

skyebluesapphire Fri 21-Sep-12 19:14:49

Is on the vodka and going out for a mates 30th birthday. Whoop whoop :-))

Maybe I will meet the man of my dreams unlikely

Hope you had fun tonight skye oops looking at the clock... this morning!!


skyebluesapphire Sat 22-Sep-12 01:15:39

hehee just got home, after too many vodkas to count, and several shots.....

going to regret it tomorrow, but what the hell, you only live once!!!

tribpot Sat 22-Sep-12 05:58:33

Drink plenty of water, skye!

50shadesofgreyhair Sat 22-Sep-12 06:30:07

I'll type this quietly Skye, cos you'll have a sore head when you read it - but hope you had a great night!

Agree that you have to ignore all the stuff he's spouting about 'haven't got a mattress' and 'will she eat baked beans' - it's not important, so don't even enter into discussion about it at all.

Yes, he probably will throw the fact that he's broke because you got the house etc., at you in the future - but so what? What does it matter what he says - you're free of the twunt!

My twunt is now moving in with OW. He told the kids this last week. They already knew, because the City we live in is like a village, and everyone knows everyone, and I know his current landlord through work and he told me weeks ago that Twunt had quit the tenancy, because he wants to move in with Lady Twunt and start his new life with her. So after telling his landlord, 4 weeks later Twunt has a lightbulb moment like only Twunt can, and he thinks it might be a good idea to mention it to the kids, as 3 of them stay with him some weekends. He blurts it out in the car, eldest said, 'Oh yeah, we know, mum told us weeks ago' and Twunt goes mad, wanting to know how I know.....then of course, he turns it all around as only he can: "Yes, well, if your mother hadn't wanted my balls on a plate, and had been reasonable about the settlement, I wouldn't have to move in with LadyTwunt. I have to do this, I have no choice, because your mother got the house so I don't have a pot to piss in." Charming, isn't he?

But you know what Skye, I don't give a shit. I don't care where he lives or who with. He can pee in a bucket for all I care. Because I've moved on. And the kids just listened to his whinging and blaming me, and laughed. Because they're old enough to know that it's all crap. And you'll get to this stage, and not care. And mini Skye will, in years to come, see him exactly as he really is. Friends, family, everyone will see him for what he really is. Truth will out. Trust me, it always does.

Saffy x

skyebluesapphire Sat 22-Sep-12 12:04:14

Ouch..... Headache.... Sat in hairdresser being highlighted

Saffysmum, you are right, the kids do become old enough to work it out.

I've sent DD off with three tubs of toys today, she can clutter his house lol. He asked for toys and clothes, he got them :-)) lol

Donkeysdontridebicycles Sat 22-Sep-12 12:05:56

Enjoy being pampered smile

tribpot Sat 22-Sep-12 12:27:43

As he's got shag all else to put in his house he should be glad of the stuff, skye!

ooh the possibilities are endless Skye for a good clear out dumping of all the bits of plastic tat treasured belongings that Mini-Skye can take over to the Love-Nest.

Sling in a few random bits of lego too that can be left down the side of the sofa/bed for OW to find!! wink

skyebluesapphire Sat 22-Sep-12 18:20:24

I went to the hairdressers for a trim and came out with a whole new hairstyle!

I said I'm fed up with it, it's been long and curly for years and I don't know what to do with it. She said, I would like to chop it to the back of your neck with it longer at the front.

So I said OK, do it then! So she cut off about 8" of hair!!! I'm a new woman! Lol

Proudnscary Sat 22-Sep-12 18:31:13

ooh how exciting - very symbolic

Show us a pic! (I know, I know!)

skyebluesapphire Sat 22-Sep-12 20:09:24

so DD has come home from STBXH's telling a tale again..... he took her to a local funfair, she went with Daddy and OW.... OW's H was busy doing the washing but he came along later....... it makes me laugh!

and Daddy kissed OW's leg and she kissed his leg..... the mind boggles.....

I find it bizarre that this woman, who avoided my child for years, due to her sad baby loss, is now going everywhere with STBXH and DD. Our friendship as couples fell apart because she couldnt bear to be near babies/toddlers....

So DD has come home from the fair armed with an inflatable Hello Kitty, candyfloss, a soft toy duck, a windmill with jelly beans in..

oh and STBXH has given DD his Nintendo DS. (that I gave him for Christmas about 2 years ago). I suggested that he keep it til Christmas and give it to her then as a present, but he said no, let her have it now. I thought it might save him some money...... but whatever!

tribpot Sat 22-Sep-12 20:50:36

Busy doing the washing, that poor sad fucker. Er ... sorry, don't let izzy hear me - I meant 'how great that he has such complete trust in his wife and best friend, it's truly heartening in this cruel world of cynicism'.

Kissed legs?? Okay, I'm leaving izzy to Pollyanna-fy that comment. Do you think the friendship thing was an appalling excuse because they were developing feelings for each other? Just wondering if it gives any perspective on earlier conflicts in the marriage.

Great news about your hair though! Very liberating to have a new look.

skyebluesapphire Sat 22-Sep-12 20:56:15

they definitely only got close in January of this year when he gave her a lift a couple of times. he didnt even have her mobile number until then.

Kissed legs? I really cant work that one out, lol. DD does get things wrong sometimes, but I really cant think what she is talking about with this one?! lol

yes, My hair is scary, Ive never had it this short ever before! or this stylish, lol

skyebluesapphire Sun 23-Sep-12 23:30:40

me and my friends christend OW's H "Cinderfella" today as he wasnt allowed out, had to stay home and do the cleaning grin

izzyizin Mon 24-Sep-12 00:37:03

<<puts on pretty gingham dress>>

They bumped their knees and had to kiss them better. Simples.

<<throws dress in corner and stamps on it>>

Skye whatever happens with your ex, you are going to have a huuuge supply of entertaining stories so you can laugh at him. And that's important! grin

Your new 'do sounds great- congratulations! I have v.short hair and really like it. After 20-odd years in a 'smart-but-not-that-stylish' bob, I went all out one day and haven't ever looked back. It's funny how you go "OH NO!" in the mirror then suddenly it grows on you smile

stuffitunderthebed Mon 24-Sep-12 15:28:50

Your hair sounds ace skye. Just caught up on your thread and I must say how much I have enjoyed izzy's pollyanna posts grin

skyebluesapphire Mon 24-Sep-12 20:16:07

Izzy is a star isnt she grin

she has obviously wanted to slap me silly at times, but she is still here thanks Izzy wine

skyebluesapphire Tue 25-Sep-12 11:30:36

So I sold my George Michael tickets... on ebay for £142. They cost me about £177, so by the time the fees are taken out and postage, I will clear about £120, so still a loss of £50, but still a gain of £120 that I didnt have otherwise. I will keep it in my paypal account and use it to buy Christmas presents, as you can use Paypal at Boots online :-)

I was going to go, but my cousin had to let me down, so I decided not to go.

But what a long way I have come though, from a crying wreck when he sent me an email saying that he would hate me to miss it and would take me if I wanted to go with him......... crying that I only wanted to go with the husband who loved me, not a man who walked out on me.......

to being prepared to go with my cousin (or anybody who would have drive me there, lol).

But I have done the right thing. I need the money more than the show.

well done, Skye - you're right, you've come a long long way!

stuffitunderthebed Tue 25-Sep-12 12:44:54

Well done skye. You just get stronger and stronger as each week goes by. Hope I can emulate you in time. How's mini skye getting on at school? Any better?

Proudnscary Tue 25-Sep-12 12:51:21

Oh God yes you did the right thing.

It's a lot of money and yes will cover loads of Christmas presents.

I love a bit of George, but I also decided not to go as isn't it the orchestra one? I prefer a poppy concert meself <uncultured>

Proudnscary Tue 25-Sep-12 12:51:42

Hi Stuffit, how you doing?

skyebluesapphire Tue 25-Sep-12 12:56:39

Proud - yes it is the orchestra one - last time I saw him at Plymouth, it was proper pop concert and it was great :-) I love George :-)

But the orchestra one is a lot of covers and only a few of his own songs, but I love him :-) so wanted to go. and then didnt want to go to a romantic orchestral concert without H, then decided sod it, will go , then couldnt find anybody to go, lol.

Stuffit - how are you doing?........ you know where we are xx

Mini-Skye had a mini-meltdown this morning as her friends/neighbours drove to school and she wanted to walk with them. (we live round the corner from the school so its really not worth driving.....). Also yesterday they had a visit from a planetarium.. so today she did not want to go to school as didnt want to "go into space again" lol.

Donkeysdontridebicycles Tue 25-Sep-12 15:10:30

Mini Skye "not wanting to go into space again" that's so cute smile.

skyebluesapphire Tue 25-Sep-12 23:18:21

According to the teachers it was a fantastic experience. All parents were asked for a £3.60 donation towards it and the whole school went in at various times during the day.

But according to the reception teacher, it was very dark and quiet in there, lol.

Neither of which are suited to Mini-Skye, who hates the dark and is very loud......

Contacted solicitor today to urge him to get the Decree Absolute filed by 22 October which is my wedding anniversary. I really do not want to reach 7 years, when STBXH walked out after 6.5 and claims to have been unhappy for a while before then.....

I feel a strange sense of calm again now..... I am happy on my own. I don't miss his company of an evening. I can eat what I want when I want. DD seems happy and well adjusted most of the time.

The house is a tip though because I am the only one picking up and there is never enough time for housework with all the accounts work, making time for Mini Skye and MumsNet and facebook

I hope to tidy it up one day grin

and in a months time I will be on a break in Cornwall with Mini Skye and I am really looking forward to it this time. Just me and her and I am a lot stronger now and will not sit there crying because STBXH is not there.

I am starting to feel more and more that I am the lucky one. I have DD, I have my home. I have no problems with communication. I may be a sarcastic bitch, but can rein that in with help from my counsellor. I have some great friends and family. I have my DD for Christmas. I have a great night out planned for the first time he has her in his new house and am looking forward to a lie-in. The next weekend he has her, I have been invited to a 21st birthday party.

I am trying to see the positives in everything. I will meet somebody else at some point, when the time is right. I am on, but am not contacting anybody, I only reply if somebody contacts me. I am in no rush to get into another relationship.

Everybody told me that I would be in a different place in 6 months and they were right. i know that I am on the anti d's, but will be coming off them gradually after Christmas, well probably in February, as January is a very stressful time in my job!!

Onwards and upwards xx

Proudnscary Wed 26-Sep-12 07:04:20

Oi, don't call yourself a sarcastic bitch missus!

You have a 'dry, cutting sense of humour' - well that's what I tell myself anyway!

You are doing fabulously.

Onwards and upwards indeed, mate x

I was going to say the same as Proud.

^What they said^

Sarcastic SOH a requirement for admission to the nest of vipers I would think?


skyebluesapphire Wed 26-Sep-12 18:13:47

Lol. Well it's the main reason that twunt left me because "your sarcastic comments have hurt me many times over the years" .......

But he never thought to mention it until he walked out...

Like his brother said " but you have always been sarcastic so why is it suddenly a problem ?!"


Stupid twunt text tonight - I know she is supposed to be back at 6.30, is there a reason for this or can she be a bit later as I have to collect something?

My reply? It's 6.30 as discussed in mediation because she now goes to bed around 7 to 7.15pm because of school as previously mentioned several times you stupid prick

now fuck off to the far side of fuck etc etc


He never fails does he. How many times does it have he have to be told.

If he does it again perhaps you should tell him to keep her overnight, but she has to be in the school playground for 8.40am (our school does this although they don't start until 8.50/8.55).

I know why he late.

He now has tinned spaghetti instead of beans and couldn't work how to heat them up wink.

Rowanhart Wed 26-Sep-12 20:39:27

I think you've done brilliantly Sky! Well done x

tribpot Wed 26-Sep-12 20:43:20

Was anything documented during the mediation, skye? I thought the mediators would send out some notes on what had been agreed and why. Otherwise, he's just gonna challenge every point 'agreed' there with a 'just remind me, what is the reason for [x]?' to force you to go through it over and over again.

Proudnscary Wed 26-Sep-12 20:51:45

Why the hell does your dd's other parent not know this? Even if he had not been told this several times, a parent should know that reception aged children should be in bed by this time. And have to have a bath, book, blah blah. So infuriating but well done for sending a factual, succint text.





tribpot Wed 26-Sep-12 21:16:16

You can say that again, Bossy.

LOL. Bossy

tribpot Wed 26-Sep-12 21:22:47

You know how the Reduced Shakespeare Company capture the essence of all 30-odd plays in a few lines? Bossy has done the same with skye's last 4 threads wink

OOps not sure what happened there, my lappy is playing up!!



skyebluesapphire Wed 26-Sep-12 21:37:40

hi trib - it is all documented as they send out a summary after each session and it clearly states 6.30pm if he takes her to his house.

wheredid - when he turned up at 6.45pm, I was tempted to text him and say if you cant get her back in time for bed, then keep her at yours and drop her at school at 9am, lol

so, he turned up at 6.45, after saying he would get her back by 6.30pm. I know its only 15 minutes, but thats two weeks running now and he promised faithfully in mediation that he would be on time for her sake...... DD said that they went to pick up OW's H, who was in the van with them, so of course thats what made him 15 minutes late.... She also turned up with her school uniform covered in spaghetti sauce grin wheredidiputit was spot on, lol.

So I did text him - politely - DD needs to change out of her school uniform each week to avoid it getting dirty as I cant afford to replace it if it gets stained by spaghetti juice..... that is why there was a change of clothes in her bag not at all sarcastic. Can you please try hard to get her back at 6.30, as she does need to unwind before bed. Thank you.

Twunt text back - sorry, it was all a rush tonight, we walked round town and I thought she wouldnt get dirty, but then I forgot about her eating her tea... I am sorry she was late back it wont happen again...

I seem unable to get a rise out of him at the moment grin.

I wonder how the poor little lamb twunt is coping now that OW is off at Uni.

skyebluesapphire Wed 26-Sep-12 21:40:45

cross posted - but lol at bossy and trib - spot on.

How to describe STBXH in one word




Forgot to say - on my way to town this morning, he passed going the other way. My reaction - oh that was him

A couple of months ago I would have probably cried. Today, nothing......

He really doesn't understand that the 3 hours he see mini Skye on Wednesday's is for her benefit and he shouldn't be arranging to meet and drop off other people.

Donkeysdontridebicycles Wed 26-Sep-12 22:09:29

Very restrained of you Skye.
Wondering how he thinks you figure out what to do with mini Skye, common sense? Experience? Instruction manual?

Keep on keeping on smile

skyebluesapphire Wed 26-Sep-12 22:18:40

No, he really doesnt get it.... he picks her up at 3.15, probably gets back to his at 4pm, then has to leave again at 6pm, so he gets 2 whole hours at home with her.......

I feel more and more every day, that he is just a sad specimen of a man. That he is immature, childish, self absorbed. He paints himself as "im such a wonderful bloke, everybody loves me", yet fails to make friends as he is so socially awkward....

Im starting to think that its not a shock that he left me, but its a shock that it lasted as long as it did!

and yes - of course mini Skye came with an instruction manual, this is how I know how to do everything isn't it...... I dont want to be the organised controlling person that he left, but I shouldnt have to tell him every flaming week to change her out of her school uniform... should I?...... He simply cannot manage without somebody to remind him what to do can he??!! ARSE!

I am restrained, I want to tell him exactly what I think of him. Have composed several "you are a total prick" letters to send to him once divorce is finalised....... still have no idea if I will actually send one though, lol

tribpot Wed 26-Sep-12 22:27:51

Well skye you owe him a letter after that scorcher he sent you. However, you do need to weigh up the potential damage over the benefit of sending such a thing.

I would send her with a list of things he needs to remember. Uniform is too expensive to be ruined because he can't manage to get her to change clothes. I would also remind dd in the morning she needs to change - it won't take her long to get into the routine of it.

stuffitunderthebed Thu 27-Sep-12 07:04:47

Spaghetti wars eh? He really is an absolute arse isn't he? Get the absolute filed; you'll feel better - get some 'closure'. Sorry to sound all american! I've said it many times but you really are doing brilliantly. Have an ace day skye. Ps Hi Proud not been on much, sorry to have ignored you!