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Evidence/snooping

(167 Posts)
angelpinkcar Tue 21-Aug-12 08:19:19

Hi there all, I have been slowly thinking I am going mad as my gut feeling tells me my DH is having an affair. I have done all the things that have been suggested on here he either is very good at hiding it or isn't and just want to put this feeling to bed. Is there any ways that have you have found your evidence. I have tried the mobile phone, he deletes all the texts and history and history from the computer, as he explains he has always done it as he doesn't like to clog up the memory. I have gone into the bill. I have tried the give me your phone for the day, which he hasn't done as yet but has had prior warning now. DH I phone doesn't leave his side most of the time but on the odd occasion it does. I just can't help feeling I am missing something, any advice please.

KirstyWirsty Tue 21-Aug-12 08:25:10

I'm sorry you are going through this .. I went through it myself last year and it is terrible

Trust your gut - I let me 'D'H persuade me that I was paranoid and imagining things .. and my gut was right all along

Not sure of what advice to give - we went for counselling and he denied all through that as well but I found 'proof' - a card he had written to the OW

I take it he is being distant and critical?? You could always tell him that you've had enough and you want him to move out for a while and see if that shakes things up a bit?

TurnipCake Tue 21-Aug-12 08:47:46

Sorry you're going through this, thinking you're going mad is enough, it's a horrible feeling.

I guess it depends on the context; by the sounds of your relationship generally, accepting you may not find evidence doesn't seem enough?

I wish I had trusted my gut. I knew my ex was playing away, I just didn't know the extent. Eventually I went through his phone because I thought I was going mad and it confirmed all my suspicions.

I'd second Kirsty's idea, not to kick his arse into gear but it sounds like you need some space to work out what you want etc.

Hope you come to a resolution smile

Looksgoodingravy Tue 21-Aug-12 13:06:33

Sorry you're going through this Angel, I think I recall you from the previous After Infidelity thread?

I found out more info on dp's iphone by going into the 'search iphone' screen (swipe until you get the keyboard coming up) but I think it was just fluke that some messages (or part of) remained as when I clicked onto the message it didn't open up anything else, he'd actually given me his iphone after he'd confessed to meeting an old 'friend' but things just didn't add up, he was far too upset when he told me about it for it to be just about meeting an ' old friend' about a week later I decided to take a look at his phone, I tried her number in the search box so started entering 0 when a message OK sexy xxx came up and then I was like a dog with a bone, found a few other messages which opened up a whole new can of worms!

I'm not that savvy with technology. Has he got lots of contacts on his phone, dp had actually saved the 3 women 'friend's under men's names!! which is why I found a man texting dp 'ok sexy xxx' rather odd.

KirstyWirsty Tue 21-Aug-12 13:14:49

Yes my DTBXH had texts from 'Jim Scott' (a colleague from work) with kisses on the end ...

Months before I had spotted that he was the more frequent contact on the phone (I was checking after I found the flirty texts from RP** - no firstname because he didn't know how to spell Rhona he said - Yeah right!!hmm ) and didn't think anything of it - wish I had looked in more detail as I would have spared myself another 5 months of grief..

If he has an I-Phone Skyebluesapphire has some App to track her iphone and his if they got lost and that is how she found out he wasn't where he said he was so you could try that??

KWx

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 21-Aug-12 13:16:11

If you don't trust him and you're living in an atmosphere of suspicion, the relationship is over. You're unhappy at the moment because you can't find any proof. You'll be just as unhappy if/when you find proof. If you're being suspicious & accusing him over nothing, you've blown it as well. It's a lose-lose-lose. So assume your suspicions are correct and take it from there.

Agree with Cogito.
You don't need proof to tell someone it's over, it's a waste of more time spent being unhappy.

Malificence Tue 21-Aug-12 13:36:19

Not true, people need to know what's really going on for their own sanity, it must be abject torture to have that instinct kick in / know something isn't right but not know what it is.

KirstyWirsty Tue 21-Aug-12 13:38:41

I needed to find the proof - otherwise it would have been made out that I was unreasonable in breaking up my family

AGilchrist Tue 21-Aug-12 13:44:08

Are you really happy living like this?
Is it possible its paranoia? It does happen.
Are you prepared to spend the rest of your life looking for proof he is cheating?
Are you going to turn round in 10 years and realise you have wastes them trying to catch him out?
On the other hand he could be cheating, but I would leave if I was happy.

Looksgoodingravy Tue 21-Aug-12 13:46:42

If only life were that simple, you're not happy, you're suspicious, end it, move on.

In my case it was a MASSIVE wake up call for dp, we are still together and are working through it, I'm giving him a second chance, not for everyone I know and who knows in 12 months time I may decide that I can't do this but I'm willing to try and make it work, he has proved to me that he is devastated by what he has done.

Angel - it is awful suspecting knowing that things aren't right, go with your instinct. Have you tried talking to your dh?

OneMoreChap Tue 21-Aug-12 14:06:15

Difficult position.

Very hard to prove a negative, and if you don't find evidence are you going to think there isn't any? Probably not. You don't trust him for whatever reason; get rid. You'll be rid of the worry, and he can find someone to trust him again.

If you think he's at it, you may well be right; I tend to delete history/temp files regularly, but some folk do more often, so no evidence there. I always used to delete texts, but on my iPhone I don't, but he may differ.

I'd let DW have my phone if she wanted to check it... but not during the day, as I work on it - and if I was bang at it, the phone would be clear. If he's dodgy he could easily have a cheap PAYG mobile - which you'd see no bill for; he could use private/incognito browsing to access a separate gmail account...
If you checked his underwear for semen stains it could be leakage/wanking...

There is very little evidence you can necessarily get - other than following him...

The cleft stick is that if you do talk to him, and he is innocent, he knows you don't trust him... sheep for a lamb?

angelpinkcar Tue 21-Aug-12 14:23:13

Thank you all for your comments. KirstyWirsty you have hit the nail on the head re your comment I needed to find out so I wasn't the unreasonable one breaking up the family. He has given me his phone today, nadder, just his mum ringing him and crap emails so far. Don't think its going to prove anything have been out for 3 hours today shopping and DC's said he was on his ipad all morning so thats why he isn't bothered, probably gmailing or whatever its called. I am also a bit techno phobe and he is a gadget man. He called me a fat munter last night he claims he was joking but he looked very serious. He has no respect for me and constantly argues with me about money. I think I am just looking for an excuse to leave as not been happy with him for a long time. So the insults, the money, the quickly changing the page when he is checking the on line bank account to his credit card account and got very defensive when I enquired why he was using the card again after we have just paid it off for the second time. I get blamed for being a spender when in fact he has been the one to

angelpinkcar Tue 21-Aug-12 14:37:55

spend. Anyway thanks again will see what happens and if there are any improvements. I always end up looking the bady and a new one he comes out with is that I am always turning things around to make out he is in the wrong. Well he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If I do break up the family there is a hell a lot of things to sort out which is very daunting. He said also I must share with you that its the reason why he doesn't talk to me about anyting because I will turn it around so its his fault , I can't work that one out either. So he drinks 4 cans of beer asks me if I am up for it and then goes to bed if I say not if you ask like that.

OneMoreChap Tue 21-Aug-12 14:47:09

Think you're right angelpinkcar I think I am just looking for an excuse to leave as not been happy with him for a long time. He sounds a tosser, and if you leave/chuck him out you can get plenty of help here in sorting out the steps to separation - so don't let that put you off.

MissFaversam Tue 21-Aug-12 14:52:03

Don't think you need to look for evidence of an affair, he sounds like a nasty bastard anyway, that in itself is enough to leave.

angelpinkcar Wed 22-Aug-12 07:41:46

Morning all, he is a tosser but all my friends and family think he is a good bloke. My Sister doesn't like him and thinks I have changed since being with him. I am not sure if he actually likes women which I have told him in the past as I try and work him out which is pointless really. MIL quite a demanding woman and is constantly texting him and phoning him on his days off. I think there are a lot of complex issues with him and his family as they all seem to be living with a front up if that makes sense like they are hiding something. I don't think he has much love or respect for his mother although he would never stand up to her. Its really weird. Think she has a lot to do with it. Although at the end of the day its between me and him and its slowly deteriorating, week, by week. It got so bad around January time I actually contacted a solicitor for advice re the finances, never followed it up. For me to do that it must be bad. The other thing is that I have been looking for what is making me so unhappy, is it my job? So I have had a sabatical from work, is it where I live the area the house, So I moved down near the coast near to DH parents, move was for better quality of life really, kids love it and are having a fantastic time, I am not as love it here but I have no family near me, a few friends but can't go out as DH works in London 4 days a week and refuses to try and find a job down here. He did say once may be its me that is making you unhappy and maybe you should leave me. Also he never wanted to move here so one reason why he won't consider job move within his company down here. I still can go back to my job which is in London but would mean uprooting DC's and changing their schools again in 12months. Sorry for long reply. Its helping talking it out on here with you guys.

Springhasarrived Wed 22-Aug-12 08:01:44

OP you have my sympathy. My situation was very similar to yours. In fact when I finally got the evidence I needed a friend said to me that I had mentioned a year before that I thought he was having an affair. I said I hoped he was as it was the only way I was going to get rid of him!

Like you I dont think I could have got him to leave without evidence of the OW or it would have "all been my fault". He became nasty and incredibly controlling. Like Kirsty I eventually got a lucky break and he lost his phone. I lent him an old one of mine. I knew the texts were difficult to delete and I got him with one he had missed. I knew who it was, it was just a question of proving it.

Could you steal his phone, turn it to silent and hide it? That was if nothing comes up you could accidentally hide it and say you have just found it under the sofa or something? I know others would just say leave the bastard but I could not have anywhere with him like that with him. I totally understand that feeling.

A year down the line he has no relationship his children and blames me for telling them we were spitting up before he did! nothing to do with anything he has done or continues to do.

Good luck.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 22-Aug-12 08:41:02

If you're unhappy with a man that treats you with no respect, is insulting and can't be trusted then you're entitled to walk away and never look back. You don't need evidence of his infidelity to justify your decision. Your family and genuine friends should take your word for it that the relationship hadn't worked out and anyone who is determined to think he's a 'good bloke' will carry on regardless of evidence.

What I found, when my ex-H left, was that most people I knew actually did think he was a tosser but had gone the 'good bloke' option because they didn't want to hurt my feelings. Once we separated they all heaved a sigh of relief and I got their true opinion.

So again, no need to scrabble about trying to pin something on him. What's happening already is enough grounds for a separation.

angelpinkcar Wed 22-Aug-12 10:05:00

Thank you very much for that its made me feel a bit better. What is the point of trying to find the evidence. Think he learnt from the last time, he was living with someone when I met him, he was very shady about it when I met him, I did not persue it when I found out and said I wasn't interested while he was living with someone. Apparently it was on the rocks as she had major trust issues with him, so the bloody alarm bells should have rang loud and clear then. He then left his ex and we started dating, so he has always had one waiting in the wings before he has moved on. So learning from his mistakes he won't get caught out this time as his ex caught him out last time by finding spare clothes for going out hidden. He had gone out with me, this was before I found out he was living with someone. Do they ever change????? I would like to think he has grown up since then with two DC's or am I being niave? I also remember the way he used to speak to his ex on the phone before they broke up which is a lot like the way he speaks to me on the phone. Thats why my gut instinct is saying he is seeing someone else. Does that make sense? If its in them to cheat they will always do it. We watched cheaters together one evening and he said I don't know how people do it I am a rubbish liar and wouldn't be able to do it - quote. I thought "Yeah Right"

angelpinkcar Wed 22-Aug-12 10:09:12

Sorry also don't know what to do re staying where I am, do I stay in a lovely place with no help as if I seperate from him his MIL won't help me, or move back to where I was nearer my family, friends work. I really don't know what to do for the best, I know its up to me ultimately but just looking for advice on what would you do if you were in my situation. Feeling a lot stronger since talking to you guys, big thanks!!!!

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 22-Aug-12 10:14:31

What's that hackneyed phrase about marrying the mistress creating a vacancy? If you sense there's a pattern, there probably is a pattern... you know him better than anyone. If you know he lied about when his last relationship ended, you've known he's not trustworthy from the start. Probably always been a little sensitive to a repeat. The remark about the cheater TV prog sounds like a case of getting your retaliation in first hmm. Same way an elderly aunt might claim 'of course, I never drink' when you've seen them with a sweet sherry at Christmas.

Leaving the whole potential affair thing to one side, however, he still sounds like a PITA. If you don't like him any more - and you're the one married to him, not friends, family or anyone else - then that's all the rationale you need.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 22-Aug-12 10:18:05

Do whatever it is you want to do. Short-term, if you stay in a lovely place with no help and get him to move out help can always be arranged. Might cost him a few quid to replace his mother's contributon, but that's part of his parental responsibility. If you move to be nearer friends and family it might take longer to organise but that's good as well. Obviously weigh up the pros and cons but often the cons are not quite as bad as they might look on paper.

bubalou Wed 22-Aug-12 10:25:25

I don't know what help I can offer other than that you don't sound happy.

If you do need the proof then I will give you the same advice I gave a fiend last year.

She suspected her DH of an affair. She started looking through things etc and he caught her looking at his phone - she would say 'who are you texting' etc and all it did was alert him to the fact she was on to him. He would also delete everything - history on laptop, texts, calls etc.

I told her to try and 'appear' to ignore all signs. Don't question him - don't pull him up on anything, avoid touching his phone etc. It was hard but she did - he thought he was in the clear and got careless - 3 weeks later her DH went in the shower and left his phone in the bedroom - she seized the opportunity to look & sure enough he had messages on there from another woman.

This is just in this case. If you are unhappy you should leave regardless but I know what you mean about not wanting to look like your breaking up the family, no doubt the bastard would love to be able to blame you.

smile

MammyToMany Wed 22-Aug-12 10:59:29

I am going to sound sneaky and awful but I was desperate to find out if exp was cheating on me but he had two phones, a blackberry and and iPhone.

He would never leave them near me until he worked out how to password the bb then he quite happily left it laying around knowing I couldn't do anything with it.

So I waited a few weeks until he was over confident and whilst my phone was on silent I sent him a jokey text (he was sitting next to me) and secretly filmed him putting the iPhone code in. It was always to fast for me to see properly but I could watch it back over and over and found out what the code was. But I couldn't get hold of the phone for a while so decided to just sit on the info.

With the blackberry, I left him a note one morning saying I'd had an email from tmobile saying there was a problem with the account and he needed to email them the following information. I included a reference number that he would have to send and asked for his phone number, pin and password. I wrote down the email address that I had created especially (I used mail . com as I could include the word tmobile in the address) he emailed the information and I picked up the email and then had the password!

I had both passwords but no phones! I saw the iPhone in the footwell of the car - he always left it in the car, and waited until he was asleep and sneaked outside and stole it. I turned it off and hid it under the bed until he was at work. From that I found he had been on dating and casual sex sites, had lots of profiles and messages, photos that looked to real to have been downloaded from a porn site. I could also read his emails on it. I turned the phone off and left it hidden, he was so cross with himself for losing it.

Waited until he had drunk to much and was crashed out in bed and took the blackberry from his bedside table, took it downstairs and put it on charge hoping he would think that was where he had left it. Read his texts and found the evidence I needed.

He is now exp, I know what I did was sneaky and underhand but I felt I was going crazy. I also felt I needed a valid reason to end the relationship for some reason.

bubalou Wed 22-Aug-12 11:11:50

WOW MammyToMany.

What a dirt bag but well done you on getting to the bottom of it all!

Springhasarrived Wed 22-Aug-12 14:35:28

Mammytoomany I am seriously impressed by your slewthing. Did you ever tell him how you had done it?

Springhasarrived Wed 22-Aug-12 14:35:54

*or even sleuthing.

Beckamaw Wed 22-Aug-12 16:16:53

I am very impressed too Mammy. Wow!

MammyToMany Wed 22-Aug-12 17:03:14

Nope, he still doesn't know. I think he has driven himself crazy trying to work out how I could possibly know. I told him the ow had told me and sent me copies of all their emails, as she was the only other person in the world that knew and because I could quote the messages back at him and told him her email address, he had no option but to believe me. She denied it but the doubt and her anger at him disbelieving her ruined their little fling!

angelpinkcar Wed 22-Aug-12 17:28:03

Well done, I like your style Mammytomany. Yes funny enough since I have alerted him to the fact that I wanted his phone for the day, his phone has been suspiciously quiet. So I will try that one I think. I know the passwords to get into the phone as that would be too suspicious if he changed them. I listen to myself and I think I sound like a demented mad woman, but you are right I need to find out. I also know if I am unhappy I should call it a day, just feel so sad that my marriage is about to end at some point in the near future. All because of what, that I got too boring, fat and naggy,these men really need to take a long hard look at themselves I think. Also I must be choosing the wrong men as an ex cheated on me in the past, really didn't think he would as his ex-wife had cheated on him from the highest order with lots of men. So there you go, thats why I see the warning signs, as been there before. Thanks again for all your advice much appreciated.

MrsGuyOfGisbourne Wed 22-Aug-12 17:28:48

Mammy, you are my hero! Ingenious!!! I would never have been clever enough to think of all that - you should be working for the CIA <maybe you are> grin

0lympia Wed 22-Aug-12 17:32:27

Well done MammytoMany! and well done for throwing a spanner in his little relationship on the side too! genius

angelpinkcar Wed 22-Aug-12 22:42:32

Tried to have a talk with DH this evening, didn't go down very well as usual so he went off to bed as usual, probably on his phone haha!!!! I tried to explain how I was feeling and brought up that may be it was our relationship that was making us both unhappy, he replied "may be it is, well you have changed everything else..." Oh well another day over a new one about to begin namasta..xxxxxx

Springhasarrived Thu 23-Aug-12 17:00:14

God Mammy that's so smart!!

This wont help you OP but as I was pretty certain who it was and Ex has ever reason to have this woman on his phone ( as he employed her) my next plan was going to be to change her number under Contacts to my number so I would get the texts he was sending to her. I almost regret it didnt happen as it would have been quite fun...............

MrsGuyOfGisbourne Thu 23-Aug-12 17:03:42

Good idea re changeing her number t yours, but you'd have to rememeber not to call him youslef..( maybe get a cheapo payg for that purpose?) also, what if she rings/texts him and comes up an unknow number? ( I'm sure an ingenious mNetter will have surmounted this obstacle.
Mammy - you will probably have a way t do this! grin

fiventhree Thu 23-Aug-12 20:32:23

Mine took 5 and a half years to catch, with me having that stupid feeling that I needed proof in case I was wrong.

I see now that you do not need proof, you have enough of it in your hear and head anyway.

Mine used to delete history and he also had cache cleaner on his laptop to 'stop the cookies slowing down the machine.' Of course the real reason was to further delete remaining history etc, so it was hell catching him.

I partly caught him by looking at the options menus in cookies at 'those to include/exclude', where i saw that he had a messenger account.

He said that the original evidence- some photos I found n the laptop over time- we 'accidentally downloaded with music from torrent music sites'.

Then I discovered that because they were in 'received files' that couldnt be true. So he argued that the received files was really downloads and even changed the name of it to received files!

I finally never did get 'proof', but i did move out of the ebdroom after my suspicions were too much, and booked a RElate appt to discuss divorce proceedings as much as anything else. After a month of denial there too, I flatly said I would never believe him and had finally decided I would never move forward at Relate or return to the bedroom without an admission, and a week or two later he fianlly cracked. Only because he didnt want to split up with me, and he knew for a certainty for once that I would never back down.

Men like this, if guilty, can live with your unhappiness (they dont see it as their problem) but they may care more if they want to stay and you firm up.

Some woman on mn at the time did suggest I spent 40 quid on some spycatcher software which records every typed word on a laptop. I bought it, and it was picked up by Norton immediately, which she had denied would happen. That may be useful to you if he doesnt have Norton, though.

Had I managed to put it on, he admitted afterwards that I would have caught him in at least 3 conversations a week with young women.

fiventhree Thu 23-Aug-12 20:32:53

heart not hear

MonkeyRisotto Fri 24-Aug-12 09:20:06

Rather than a software keylogger (most of which will get flagged up by either antivirus or antispyware software, just get a hardware keylogger.

This is a USB one www.maplin.co.uk/usb-key-logger-220172 and this is a PS2 one www.amazon.co.uk/LM-Technologies-Key-Safe-Logger/sim/B001H2VL9E/2

It goes between the keyboard and the computer, and records everything, I think you do a specific key combination to output it to windows notepad.

OneMoreChap Fri 24-Aug-12 09:30:46

Ttbh, if you're that suspicious, it's making you unhappy.

Don't stay in an unhappy relationship.

angelpinkcar Wed 22-Aug-12 17:28:03
...All because of what, that I got too boring, fat and naggy,

Lots of men (wince, including me, occasionally) say their wives nag. It's rarely as we paint it. DW 'nags' me to do things I have said I will, so we can spend more quality time together.

If you got "boring" why was that? If you got "fat" why was that - I'd be amazed if he'd stayed sylph-like... Problems in a relationship are rarely one-sided. My XW, who I ended up hating and left would have blamed me for not talking enough to her... I would say it was for not agreeing with her.

Triffiddealer Fri 24-Aug-12 09:44:54

This

Men like this, if guilty, can live with your unhappiness (they dont see it as their problem) but they may care more if they want to stay and you firm up.

fiveinthree - that's so true and what's so hard to comprehend. If I was causing someone pain and hurt, I would want it to stop. It is very hard to understand that some men (and probably women) just don't feel that way, even if it's their 'nearest and dearest', they can live with hurting them as long as they get what they want. Ho hum, you live and learn.

fiventhree Fri 24-Aug-12 11:04:36

Thats true isnt it Triffid.

But if they want something they have agreed not to have, or to do something you have both agreed will not be done, then they do it behind your back. Or they manipulate you to get it.

That's what my h did. He lied fairly often.

Now I see that the wider signs were all there.

It simply did not matter that I could not prove it, as I could prove that he was selfish and a liar and took less responsibility than me in heaps of ways.

So why on earth did I need proof? Surely my suspicions should have been enough, given that I did know already that he was capable of deceit and of not owning his behaviour.

No, instead I just kept thinking that he would never do that, because he said that he would never do that- he was against infidelity and thought men who did it were fools.

But I believed his words, not his general style of living in the relationship - ie his actions. Which were of course supportingly the likelihood that he would do such a thing.

That is the key learning.

0lympia Fri 24-Aug-12 11:13:19

wrt nagging, I would never tolerate not being listened to anymore. I never nagged until I had been ignored a couple of times. Having 'no voice' would drive anybody crazy. I believe most men would lose it quicker if they were being ignored routinely.

angelpinkcar Sun 02-Sep-12 21:39:22

Hi there just an update, I had DH phone for the day unbeknowns to me his ipad is exactly like his iphone, no wonder her gave it over so freely. He has been home this week for a few days and has spent most of it on his ipad, iphone or updating the laptop. Why we need all these gadgets I really don't know and I haven't bought any new clothes for months but we can afford all of these gadgets which have to be paid for some way or another. He has been installing programmes to protect passwords etc,I tried to restore everything on his page on the laptop the other evening to see if I could find anything( mad I know) but he must have found something from the last time I tried to do it and has put something on it to stop it restoring deleted items. I have stopped now as I will go around the bend trying to find out. I am a great believer in things happen for a reason and when the time is right it will happen but I am so impatient and want to find out now though so I can get on with my life with my children and be happy and know where I am going not waiting for him to change or become a happier person with what he has got in life.

cahu Mon 03-Sep-12 00:05:18

angel, I really feel for you. My ex-h was a devoted family man, 2dd's, beautiful home etc. He also worked away a couple of nights a week. Went through a bad patch, had a predatory ex waiting in the wings, changed slowly over a 6 month period to an absolute shit.

Like yours his phone did not leave his side. He then gaslighted me for the next few years. I knew in that first 6 months he was up to something because my instincts told me so. If I'd had the power of Mumsnet behind me then, believe me, it would not have taken 3 years to get away.

He also has a difficult family and a narcisstic mother who all knew about the affair and were encouraging him behind my back! He was hedging his bets but also didnt want to look like the bad guy walking out on his kids. Its hell, but there will be a lot of handholding here if you need it. x

angelpinkcar Mon 03-Sep-12 08:41:33

Hi Cahu, how did you find out in the end? I don't know some days I think and feel he is well at it and then other days I think umm may be I am imagining it. Ot it could be our relationship is so crap and I should just get out and looking for a way out but not got the courage, money etc to do it.

Yogii Mon 03-Sep-12 09:09:57

This might not be much help as you seem to want to find the evidence, and I can understand that....... I cleared my history when I was having an affair, and now that it's over I don't.

Clearing history does not 'free up memory'. If you didn't clear any history for a few years there would be no discernable difference in the performance of the computer.

cahu Mon 03-Sep-12 15:55:34

He was seen in a bar with her by a member of my family. This was after having our sun room re-modeled and a new kitchen! He still tried to talk his way out of it and then 6 months later the OW stopped me in Sainsburys and told me to stop blackmailing him, with the house and children...!

I started divorce proceedings and it took another 2 years for the divorce to come through as it went to court. He wouldn't move out in this time, used the house like a hotel, used to work away for a few days and hide my car keys etc etc. She was his first wife, he was her second husband. She was having an affair with a guy she worked with when they were together, whom she went on to marry and divorce....

They are still together and just heard yesterday they are getting married at Xmas. Her 4th wedding, she is wearing big dress etc. However 6 months after my divorce he tried to get back with me!!!! They were living together then and this continued until I photographed his texts to me on my iphone and sent them to her last year...!

BerylStreep Mon 03-Sep-12 17:26:52

Angel, he sounds very disrespectful to you, and the clearing history, deleting texts, and installing anti-spy software screams affair. Do you really need evidence?

If you are intent on trying to find evidence, and he is so aware of the phone / iPad security, perhaps a voice activated dictaphone in his car would be the answer?

fiventhree Mon 03-Sep-12 17:30:02

Angel- I was in your shoes, and I didnt get 'proof'. I did see photos of women- about 5 on four occasions over a nearly six year period. He just explained them away. He also did what your h did, which was to change his passwords, deny he had etc. eg he would agree not to do so, then change the first letter into a capital one or some other sneaky strategy.You simply cant pin down a man like this.

I should have done what I did in the end- which was as follows:

1. the usual, confront him

2. listen to his denials

3 go away and worry like buggery that I may be wrong even through I sort of knew it all did just not add up, and then.......(and here is the different bit)

4 this time, I went back and said I had thought it all through yet again, and I still wasnt happy. There was too much tiny stuff, too many coincidences, too much general obfuscation and deceit. Fundamentally, I dont believe you.

5 Move into the spare bedroom and declare war

6 Listen to him tell our kids I was mad, and tell me I had invented all this because I had nothing else i my life etc etc. That bit hurt, and was truly shitty of him, because my work had dried up at that time, and I was very worried and sad by it, and had spent many years supporting him to get a career.

7 Eventually we went to Relate. He was hoping it would all blow over, and that I would move on from that particular focus when there. I didnt- I said I thought he was unfaithful and lying to me, heard is denial, and allowed the conversation to go in other directions for a few weeks. BUT, whenever the counsellor came back to me, even after some general improvements in the relationship, I said that I could not or would not move forward unless he talked to me honestly about my suspicions.

8 A week or two later, he backed down, and then I discovered there had been hundreds, and way less than half his age.

Angel, you know already, dont you, you just know. It wont ever go away, and there is no hope unless it comes out.

I so remember months and even a year passing where I 'let it go', but it always came back, the slight evidence grew, and he became shittier to live with all the time. It was a horrible time. Trust your instincts and escalate the finding out strategy however you can, or walk.

janelikesjam Mon 03-Sep-12 18:47:49

Truly awestruck at your story Mammy, your patience and initiative shock

angelpinkcar Mon 03-Sep-12 20:42:28

Thank you Yoggi for being so honest, and thank you for the information re the memory, I was fed that one, oh it slows it down if you don't delete history. I know he looks at what I look at as once he came out with "where did you get that from MN" "I have always deleted my texts and history" Thank you fiventhree, Cahu and Beyrlstreep also for the advice and your personal information. It all helps to build a picture. His phone texts have calmed down a lot lately so not sure what is going on, my feeling is that its cooled off or broken up at the moment or they are not around. He is letting the DCs use his phone and ipad to play games which he used to get annoyed with say a month previously. He is always downloading stuff on the computer, whether its music or films but its constant, he while time he is at home he is doing something with the computer, getting really pissed off and down about it all and just need to change something although I have made a lot of change within the last 12 months, so scared to give up my job which I am contemplating leaving incase it all goes tits up and I am left without income. I know he would have to pay but it would be a battle.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 03-Sep-12 20:48:25

Look at the settings for his internet history (found by using the spanner icon) - he might have set it up to clear automatically every time.

Check for a second mobile - car? work bag?

Yogii Tue 04-Sep-12 06:16:08

Over and over again there are threads on here about secrecy with computers and phones. These devices used in that way are toxic to relationships. I'm a past offender. I'm working things through and one major change is that laptops, phones, iPad, etc. are now totally open all of the time. All passwords are known, nothing is erased. And frankly, that's how it should be all of the time otherwise these suspicions are bound to arise, why wouldn't they when there is no technical reason to constantly clear history.

Computers and phones keep history because doing so enhances functionality, it saves typing and helps a user recall web sites used. Forms are auto-completed so remembering passwords isn't necessary. In general, having a history speeds things up not slows things down. Any yet despite the software companies doing a great job of enhancing usability, people are keen to switch all that off! That analysis blows it all away really doesn't it.

Another reason you could express to him. When I was in max-security-lock-down mode I couldn't make available to DW things that she or the family would need in the event of an unexpected incident happening to me or both of us. She or my kids wouldn't have been able get onto the computer to find out details of bank accounts, trading accounts, investments, etc. It always niggled me at the time and now all of that is out in the open.

Re the comment about the spanner icon and other technical details, you have to remember that things are different according to the type of computer, the operating system it runs etc. The spanner is a feature of Chrome but other browsers have different icons.

If you do some searching on the Internet you could find many ways of getting into devices and monitoring usage. The trouble is you need to be a bit tech savvy and to have the time. For example, not many people realise that there's a method of booting Windows so that you can type any password you like into the logon screen and get full access. Astonishing, but true. I won't post more details in case it is seen by someone who shouldn't see it, but it's all there on the web if you look for long enough to find it.

But frankly, what you need is simply a discussion. If he knows you use MN then all you have to say is that in every case where people are so secretive there's always a bad reason, and therefore secrecy won't be tolerated.

angelpinkcar Tue 04-Sep-12 07:34:18

Thank you Yoggi, I do know his password to get into the phone etc but as he erases everything there is no point looking is there???? until he forgets to delete his calls texts or browser history etc but being away for a few days aweek he has the time to do all of that where as me have not looking after two DC's all week on my own. Although it was mainly my descision I am in this situation, DH working away and me on my own with the DC's. His claim to fame is that he has always done it. He may have well done but I never had any reason to snoop then. He did let slip once that he reguarly rang another woman he used to work with when I stated that I didn't feel happy with that he said that he wouldn't do it anymore and that was 3 years ago. So this may have been going on for some time and its only now I am beginning to realise what all of the behaviour and signs were.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 04-Sep-12 08:13:47

So he has form for this kind of thing?

What do you want to do OP?

angelpinkcar Tue 04-Sep-12 09:25:03

I am not sure if he has done anything in the past. This ow was a friend apparently before we met. When we were dating he used to call around to see her for a coffee and was quite open about it. He also used to go and chat to his BF wife, nothing going on there but the BF blatantly fancied DH. I was surprised in conversation once when he let it slip he still spoke to the one he used to see before we started seeing each other, she is married with two children and works in the same company as DH. I don't know her but I used to work with her husband who incidently didn't like my DH apparently. Bit confusing I know but I used to work with DH. So may be this ow is still lurking in the background. I know her name but have never seen anything with her name on it unless its under a mans name. Although the calls were made from work to a work number, so no trace anywhere very clever, this is going back 3 years though. Thinking back DH behaviour was pretty bad then, very moody, always shouting at the DC's never happy at home. I had a feeling then but thought I was wrong. Anyway going out now with the DC's. In reply to Madabouthotchoc. I don't know what I want to do, turn the clock back to pre moving house and staying where I was.

Yogii Tue 04-Sep-12 12:05:09

"no point looking?"

Depends. If it's an iPhone then no, there's no point. If it's a different kind of smartphone then maybe. Most of them contain a small MicroSD card. This can be removed and reinserted without turning the phone off. You can stick it into a USB adapter and copy the entire contents to a computer within a few minutes. If things like whatsapp and other messaging programs are being used they often leave a lot of information behind on the MicroSD card. As I said earlier, it could well be there but you need to be a bit technically savvy to know.

There are quite a few apps available which appear to be one thing when in fact that are a 'digital locker' of all the stuff you want to hide. Again, the MircoSD card trick works with many of these but it's know what to look for.

I'd fall back to the straightforward approach - tell him it all stays open and undeleted all of the time or you don't tolerate it/him. It's the only way to deal with people like the 'old' me.

Ok. Forget the iphone. Concentrate on the PC. Download a program onto it called webwatcher. It will cost you but IMO worth every penny! This is how i caught mine out. Find out all his passwords, check accounts out while you know he won't be on them. FB, read the archived messages. People often click the little x thinking it deletes the message. No it sends them into archive lol.. msn, WW will record conversations from both sides if my memory serves me correctly. Be aware you WILL see some fucking painful stuff. If you find anything out be careful when you confront him he may turn violent. And after you've found out, and before you've confronted him, try to find out the pin to the iphone, take it with you when you confront him and leave the house, go to a friends house for a couple days, keep the phone with you. You may find that he emails the slag / s to warn them that his phone has been stolen. (by checking his emails which hopefully you wont have told him you have access to ) and anyone phones or texts the phone, tell them what he's done and who you are. Then plot revenge lol. So sorry you're in this position sad

fiventhree Wed 05-Sep-12 18:32:56

OP please do not get webwatcher if your h is internet savvy and has, eg, Norton.

I just did a simple search for you are google has lots of evidence that it will be blocked by Norton.

I looked for you, a I got desperate enough myself to try some spyware (was it spycombo?) which did the same thing- cant remember the name- but norton detected it and blocked it immediately.

Only a private detective is likely to know what will work at this moment, as Norton etc update all the time.

If you cant face the hassle of all this, then your only options are to

- watch quietly until he slips up- he will, too
-tell him what you suspect and refuse to back down, for weeks if necessary
- chuck him out, because who wants to live with constant suspicion.

I did, and it made me ill. I was bloody well right, too.

Instinct- a great teacher and the best voice you have, and far more subtle and complex than anything else. It is the computer in your brain detecting that threat.

Norton didn't detect it when i used it and it left no trace on the pc as its web based not pc based iykwim but that was three years ago lol

http://www.ehow.com/how_5030176_check-webwatcher-pc.html

Be aware that when i used it i was desperate and it was bloody well worth every penny i spent on it.. the subscription runs out after a set period of time though think its a year but that was ample enough for me to A: Find out what fuckery he was up to, and B: Be assured it had ceased

OneMoreChap Wed 05-Sep-12 21:33:38

Bit of a problem if he remote wipes it, isn't it.

You've decided he's guilty. Do both of you a favour and say you want to split up.

fiventhree you are of course absolutely correct that instinct is a wonder but it doesn't give you flat out proof

bogeyface Netherlands Wed 05-Sep-12 21:36:04

If he really is up to something then he will eventually slip up. Mine did.

He got cocky (har har) and stopped being so careful because he was convinced I had swallowed his lies. So when he accidentally brought his secret phone home instead of leaving at it at work like he had done for the previous year, I found it because I was always on the look out.

He will make a mistake eventually, but sadly you may well go round the twist waiting, I did sad

Houseofplain Wed 05-Sep-12 21:36:14

Never EVER download web spyware/keloggers.

Unless you really know what you are doing. Most at home won't. As not only could they be easily blocked. There is a reason for this......

They are logging and recording packets of information from your pc. That's everything from passwords to banking.

Yes i forgot to mention prior to all this one day he left his phone at home.. but as i said before, have a flounce at some inconvinient time and make sure you take phone with you on your strop/visit to the shop ect any reason to leave the house will do, then don't go back, stay at a friends for a day or two with the phone see what happens

fiventhree Thu 06-Sep-12 10:39:00

Things and Bogey- I do think watching and waiting is a good idea, but it works best if they dont already know you suspect.

Bogey you said you were driven round the twist- so was I.

It took me five and a half f..ing years to find out, and the key thing was, the day I decided to trust my instincts, I still had no better or firm evidence. Even at Relate he denied after that.

The one thing is, though, most men dont want to leave the relationship even with an affair. So when I just moved out of the bedroom and infuriated him by saying I believed he was a liar and that he would never convince me otherwise, he tried like buggery to do just that for the next 6 weeks, all them time which I stood firm and stayed in the spare room and generally kept away from him between Relate sessions.

When it finally dawned on him that I wasnt shifting and never would, then I got the truth (which was quite shocking, the number of women involved).

It was damn hard but a lot better than what I had gone through the previous five plus years, playing cat and mouse with a cheating liar. Sure, you go half nuts that way. (In fact at one pint towards the end my h swine of an h, to deflect, actually started gaslighting me and suggesting that I was a bit mad. From what I see on here, it is a fairly standard cheaters response.

bogeyface Netherlands Thu 06-Sep-12 12:20:00

I was told that the pregnancy was causing me to be paranoid and perhaps I should ask the MW if I had ante natal depression. He would have quite happily seen my popping pills that could have affected our baby rather than admit what he was doing. He could see that I was falling apart, he knew that I was ill and he made it so much worse out of selfishness.

It does seem to be standard, but I am still shock at the depths they will plunge in order to try and protect themselves and their vile shagfests sad

angelpinkcar Thu 06-Sep-12 17:27:23

TBH I think its been off and on for a long while now or may be its been a few I really don't know. The day starts off ok then he will get himself into a mood usually about money we will have a row as I am fed up of explaining where the money has gone mainly on food. Nothing ever gets spoken about a living hell really and at times I bloody wish he just would piss off with who ever it he is shagging as they are welcome to the miserable control freak twunt. I told him he spends too much time on the computer and said he should get help as I think he is addicted. It stopped him going on them for a while anyway.

entertumbleweed Thu 06-Sep-12 18:20:13

I used webwatcher and have found out my partner was meeting men for sex. It's easy to install and takes you through the steps to avoid norton picking it up - takes a good half an hour or 40 mins to go through steps though.

I'm glad I did it now thought sorry about what i found out

angelpinkcar Thu 06-Sep-12 18:27:10

OMG entertumbleweed, I will look into it, although he uses the iphone and ipad most of the time would it pick up any of the stuff on them?

bogeyface Netherlands Thu 06-Sep-12 20:47:18

You can download a "find my phone" app onto them. Ostensibly these are if they get stolen you can track them via GPS. In reality you can also use to see whether he is where is says he is.

angelpinkcar Thu 06-Sep-12 22:20:07

My friend did that ,bless her but her DH found out and made her take it off. I haven't got an Iphone so I can't do that. I am going to read through all the threads and plan my strategy. I think the best way is to let them drop themselves in it as from a lot of your experiences they have in the end. It may take a little while but as I have said before I believe everything happens for a reason, hopefully for the greater good.

A friend of mine with a VVV internet savvy DP downloaded it and it collected enough evidence to be used in the following court case for him downloading child porn and grooming kids on the internet.

As i said and personally experienced, the things you see and read may scar you for life. Reading that your DP thinks someone has a very tight pussy when you have just given birth to his baby never goes away sad but it allowed me to see the number of women involved, when, where, what he said to them, and i could make out that they had told me. He still doesn't know what i did to this day. I advocate it to anyone who is worried. Either the subscription runs out or you can remove it from the pc after its done its job. Small price to pay for peace of mind IMVHO but i repeat be aware that you will see some things that will make you physically sick.

Being suspicious isn't enough to make one 'chuck them out' yes there has to be trust in a relationship but believe me i trusted my DP 100% even when things were glaringly obvious (well now i know anyway) i still 'believed' his version of events. He even invited OW to our house for a cuppa in i can only guess was some sick stunt to make me think, if she comes to my house she can't possibly be shagging him behind my back.. omg i cant do this sorry, basically, if you want to know for SURE download it, but be ready for the shitstorm.
There are other ways of finding out, though, and maybe these are worth exploring first. Problem with DP is that he was very good at covering his ass. WW blew that wide open. I am glad i used it though i do wish i hadn't been made painfully aware of EVERYTHING sometimes sad

angelpinkcar Thu 06-Sep-12 23:19:09

Ahh bless you thingsthatmakeyougohmmmm. How much if the WW cost and is it easy to install on the computer? I did install some free thing once on it an DH became a little bit suspicious and I blamed it on DD going on the computer clicking on stuff at the time, think I got away with that one. It restored conversations of Facebook but it was my crap nothing from DH. So that was a waste of time, didn't have a clue mind.

It was 3 years ago and cost me about 60 quid but i believe its cheaper now. You will need about an hour on the pc uninterrupted to install it ect but from what i remember it was easy and step by step. You log into a web based page to check whats what so you will have to remove that from history if memory serves me correctly x

It will refer to the pc as the target pc, it wont pick up stuff on the ipad ect, BUT if you get passwords then be very clever about when you log into his accounts, check hotmail or windows live 'sent' folder, i THINK not sure because i dont use it often, that windows live also has a messaging system where you can send and leave messages that aren't emails. Your tummy will cringe trust me, but the relief if it proves nothing is going on will be enormous.

FB, check archived messages as thats where clicking the little x will send them to, not delete them as many people think, and if you log into fb its up to you whether you turn off chat or not but remember to turn it back on if you do.

I think thats about all i can remember. I didn't have to actually use WW in the end bc the thing that actually caught him out was that he hadn't downloaded the actual windows live, but some program parading as it, similarly named, and that had logged convos unbeknownst to him in 'my received files' on 'computer'

It sounds very intimidating but its not. Just remember to wipe history after logging on to fb/windows live and the WW site

entertumbleweed Fri 07-Sep-12 07:02:54

i think most people have the same passwords so he'd just need to log into email or whatever on the laptop and you'd have his codes. For me it was access to email and dodgy sites but I guess it might be less helpful telling you what he watches on his ipad.

fiventhree Fri 07-Sep-12 08:42:29

Angel, I think they do slip up in the end, if you are watchful.

I finally got so desperate that in the last month (of five years) before I found out I actually kept a journal. Reading it back made it much more clear to me, and the details that I let go at the time as less significant really jumped out at me.

I also recorded contradictory things- he would say something and contradict himself a fortnight later, and if I asked about it, he would totally deny he had said it. He would say, oh well, you are forgetful. Recording it at the time ensured I knew it was not me going crazy!

Maybe also draw up a list of all the things you could check, and check them regularly. Dont forget any paper bills or pockets for receipts, in case he is actually out with someone. Look in his drawers too.

It is a truly awful way to live and I'm sure you will feel awful and guilty for doing all this. Just try to remember that it isn't you who is wrecking the marriage and lying about it. You didnt plan to live like this.

Tbh I never did think I would actually move out of the bedroom or consult a lawyer before i got the evidence, but you may find that if this carries on and you remain suspicious but find nothing, that one day he will upset you in some unrelated way and you will just snap. For me, we had spent a whole fortnight arguing about the latest 'evidence' (a photo on his computer of a young woman), and I was still being patient, although this time telling him I was still unhappy with his explanation, although I couldnt disprove it..

Then he laughed at a letter my teenage daughter had sent me (a 'you are a horrible mum sort of thing!) over an argument about whether she should do her weekly chore (when her younger brothers had). It was clear he was in some way identifying with her over the issue and enjoying my sadness. So I got dressed without a word, saying to myself 'right, that's it. Enough'. And moved rooms. That was the catalyst which got me the answers, finally.

angelpinkcar Fri 07-Sep-12 14:48:27

Thank you fiventhree, I will do that, I started writing it down a few years back with his unreasonable behaviour when my DS was a baby, as felt totally pissed off with him then and was thinking of leaving. He would ignore him crying when it was his turn to get up, I was also back at work working 3 days a week in a new job, where I would have been up preparing work for the next day, when he did get up he would shout and swear and make my DS hysterical where I would have to get up and calm him down the baby that is and try and get some sleep before getting up for work, though he was a wanker then, felt very low tired and depressed in those days. Feel a lot stronger now but just fed up and want change but afraid of what it will bring. Not sure what to start with as not working at the mo and relying on his money if I chuck him out money will be non existant can't go back to my job as its miles away and feck all jobwise where I am living. Feel like in limbo like the calm before the storm if that makes sense.

fiventhree Fri 07-Sep-12 16:01:10

Yes, I felt like that.

I had this loop in my head about money and kids and losing the house (which I had brought to the marriage, but a long time previously, so i would have lost half). I was also terrified the kids would choose him- teenagers, as he had always bought them off and loved to play the 'nice dad', leaving all the crap to me.

Funnily enough in the last month before I moved rooms my then 15 year old started to demand that i didnt tolerate some things any more, although she didnt know about his ow. That gave me confidence, too.

Why not do what I did, and just visit a solicitor on the quiet for a free half hour. You may find you are in a better position than you though. Try and follow up anything the solicitor says eg if you dont own a house nd wil need nenefits and manintenance try to work out how much that would be. Lots of women are pleasantly surprised. Imagine if you split, could you work part time too? Would you get half the equity from a house sale? Think it all through. Write it down. Once it doesnt just look like 'oh my god, total poverty', when the finance stuff is measurable and you know what it is, then it gives you options and choices. It enables you to know where you stand and what the future might look like without him. It is no longer just a scary precipice with nothing on the other side.

And you know, Angel, I have found that a happier woman (myself) even a year on has found the energy to find good part time work and begin to have fun, *because I am not spending all of my spare emotional 'me time' energy dealing with him and my suspicions.

I look back at posts i made on here before i found out what DP was up to, and yes, its like a poke in the eye, but when you're in the middle of it all they are very good at making you out to be stupid, insecure, or flipping the other way with sincere looking in your eyes denials of wrongdoing, swearing on childrens' lives yes THAT old chestnut and it makes you think 'am i reading too much into/hormonal/silly delete as appropriate.. always best to prove or disprove one way or the other, 100% and always best without them even knowing you suspect.

If they put as much effort into the relationship as they did to cheat our relationships would be fantastic! hmm

angelpinkcar Fri 07-Sep-12 22:34:48

Arr bless you, thats all I want is to be happy and not worrying about money, whether or not DH is going to be in a good mood or bad mood although I have stopped caring about it, how much money I have spent on food in the past few days, looking forward to when he is going back to work so its just me and the Dc's. I did make an appointment at the beginning of this year to see a solicitor to see where I would stand financially after a difficult time over Chirstmas which prompted me to do it. They called me back but I ignored their calls as I didn't have the courage to see it through. I have put in most of the deposit for the house which came from my DP so I am entitled to that not him I believe if I ever sold the house. Funny enough over the last few days have had a few calls from DH maybe it has something to do with me saying to him that I had enough and had been feeling like this for sometime and think he should move out and in with his parents as I have had enough of his shit. Re on the computer nearly all the time he is at home etc. Was quite calm about it. I do have a very well paid part-time job which I have been doing for nearly 20 years altogether, not very child freindly but can retire in 11 years from it as I am in the public sector. I probably would still do the job if my DH helped out more in the home and wasn't such a knob to me and drained me of all my energy worrying about what is going on etc. So looking at ways I can leave and work nearer home etc for a lot less pay but I need to find out how much DH would have to pay to me for the DC's first.

Viking1 Fri 07-Sep-12 22:37:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

angelpinkcar Fri 07-Sep-12 22:40:46

Thanks Viking1

angelpinkcar Fri 07-Sep-12 22:47:26

Is what I earn also calculated into the equation so he doesn't have to pay as much the more I earn? I read somewhere that if you are working quit work or full-time go part-time as the more I earn the less he has to pay ????

Viking1 Sat 08-Sep-12 09:07:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Teansympathy Sat 08-Sep-12 12:27:45

So sorry for you, I have gone through same very recently, my exDH always kept his phone very close by him so...............I waited till he was asleep it was the only way as I like you felt I was going mad thinking he was having an affair, anyway got hold of the phone and copied the texts from OW to my phone , then in the morning confronted him and he denied it , BUT i had the proof so he left and that was that, but it was such a releif to know I was not being paranoid and suspicous for nothing, so good luck and hope you get the closure you need and deserve.Big Hug to You x

fiventhree Sat 08-Sep-12 19:18:22

The relief when you find out ie 'get proof' of what you already know in some instinct or other, is unbelievable.

I spent about 12-18 months in that stage. The infidelity had gone on for 5 and a half years, it turned out.

I kept doing that things others have mentioned of thinking it was just me, eg when i found something possibly suspect and he denied it. Of course, during this time he retreated into work mode and was on his computer all evening and long after I had gone to bed, so the marriage was deteriorating anyway. He blamed me for this, but now admits he just didnt want to take responsibility for anything that didnt suit him.

The blame they deflect gets to you. The suspicion gets to you. The miserable life doing all that they wont in the house gets to you, too. Finally, with me, if became an obsession to catch him and I used to spend hours on the net looking for his typical usernames eg I would put in his ebay username and search on pipl so see where else he came up, as that was a unique name. I looked on dating sites but gave up, because it as like looking for a needle in a haystack.

It definitely lost time in my life over all this. It definitely affected the kids, they said so afterwards. My teenage daughter actually fucked up her GSCEs over it all, acting up and never doing any work and hanging with the wrong crowd, but afterwards she came to me and told me all about how she lad felt . Because i had shown her I was prepared to take action to solve my life issues, she did too.

Also, I became physically ill, and had facial cellulitis on four of five occasions, and lost three healthy teeth through that. There were two spells where I couldnt go for a few days as an inpatient in hospital for IV antibiotics, as he was too selfish to take a day off work or, on one memorable occasion, attend and speak at a conference for which he would not be paid.

When I finally came on mn people tried to explain to me that getting the actual proof wasnt the main issue- i was living in misery anyway. There was no way I could see that at the time, and can understand why you cant either Angel, but I did come to see it eventually, and could have kicked myself.

The main thing is, how happy is your life? Can you see it improving, in terms of your happiness, as things stand?

Because if not, all the work to make that scary jump is just that- work. One step at a time. A trip to a solicitor isnt a commitment to leave. It may well be free, too. It is only a confidential chat to get some information.

Take that step, and see where you are then.

I really feel for you.

fiventhree Sat 08-Sep-12 19:22:11

Angel, I have described what happened in detail to me as an example. This is a thread about you with suspicions but proof which you might well not get.

But this is how bad it gets, from one year to the next, waiting for him to change. He wont unless he thinks he has something to lose- you- and he actually is prepared to fight for it.

So you have that power, you really do. You are not powerless, and men like him often change pretty damn fast when faced with no choice. My h admitted what he did not have to admit.

And if he is prepared to see you walk? Then that tells you the value of what you had- that you are just a domestic service for him.

Yes, actually despite being a proof person myself i agree with what people are saying. If he's treating you like crap, but not cheating, where does that leave you? Staying with him because he's not doing the dirty, but allowing him to screw you over in other ways too.. I feel so bad for you chick.. hope you found support here, like i did, and can decide what to do no matter what the outcome of your 'snooping' .. big unmumsnetty hugs because i had a few when i was going through the same thing x

angelpinkcar Wed 19-Sep-12 21:58:56

Hi All, I haven't actually done anything yet regards to my predicament. DH was fine last week but over the last 5 days he has become an arsehole once again. Its weird it feels like that he sees his OW as I still feel there is one once or twice etc every few weeks as the rest of the time he is normal then all of a sudden he comes home is distant receives calls from work apparently, forgets things I tell him, goes on about the finances, starts arguments appears distant and moody and short with the DC's it could be tiredness or am I being naive?? Again discusses splitting up as I instigate a conversation regarding our situation that we should move back nearer to work so we are able to earn more money, I can go back to my job. He won't hear any of it refuses to look for work or apply for a transfer to where we live and is happy commuting 100 miles not every day but must enjou being away. What do you think???? I said today maybe it is our relationship and I can't face that is the problem that needs to be sorted, He replied "put the house on the market then"

fiventhree Thu 20-Sep-12 09:11:00

So as soon as you raise that the relationship may be the problem, he says to put the house on the market, though he was against it before? And without furthe discussion or checking why you think that?

Hmm. Doesnt look good regardless of his reasons. At the very least he is saying that he doesnt care whether you are worried or unhappy about the relationship, and/or calling oyur bluff. I would get the estate agents round.

angelpinkcar Thu 20-Sep-12 12:58:28

Exactly what I was thinking re the estate agents. I will do it next week when he isn't here. Thanks fiventhree.

angelpinkcar Wed 26-Sep-12 22:10:54

Have been looking through my diary and saw an entry in December last year stating told H how I felt about the relationship and was going to see how it went. Well not a lot has changed since then it seems. The same routine, I have enough of his behaviour have a blow out, he appears to try for a few weeks then goes back to his usual behaviour, so it never changes except things have stepped up a bit and I have opened my eyes a lot to what is going on around me. After another row on Wednesday last week H has been trying!!!! to help in the house by doing some washing (his own) probably semen stained underwear, why would it be semen stained if he is away working??? Offering to help out with the DC's more and offering to do some housework, not doing it. He still lies in bed pretending to be asleep when the DC's get up. I really don't know what to do. He comes home at the weekend for a few days and not looking forward to the next few days really. I don't know where to start really. I don't want to carry on living like this for another year its not fair to the DC's or me. He keeps texting me and phoning the DC's I have been a bit lapse with my replys as I really can't be arsed to reply. On a few occasions when I have been out recently I have come home and noticed that the lounge window is wide open am I being paranoid or do you think he is listening out for me when I am coming as he is always on the computer when I do come in? The other night he lied about what time he came home from work I pretended I was alseep so I knew exactly what time it was. I just know something is going on and its driving me mad. I have resorted to drastic action and hopefully fingers crossed will find out something over the next few days, I know its madness but can't say too much. Got the idea from on here.

Kickboxer Wed 26-Sep-12 22:18:24

I don't think you're paranoid, Op. Good luck in finding out.

Smeghead Wed 26-Sep-12 22:48:49

I think I can guess what your drastic action is and I wish you luck with it. Just make sure that it stays on the right side of the law.

Maybe it would be good if you posted on the "other" board, if you are worried about this being found?

I hope it works out .. good luck x

fiventhree Thu 27-Sep-12 10:24:12

good luck Angel

angelpinkcar Thu 27-Sep-12 14:51:57

Thanks guys xxxxx

fiventhree Thu 27-Sep-12 17:22:40

another thing you could do Angel, whilst you are waiting, is start reading.

eg that book on boundaries or the Frank Pittman book on infidelity and types of men.

Whether he is or not, I wish that when I had been in your situation that I had spent time on this sort of thing, as it would have helped me to see what I needed to see alot earlier. And I dont just mean any infidelity, which is only a symptom anyway, of stuff you already 'know', but dont have in any kind of context.

From there you can look at reading to help see who you are more clearly.

That's the pattern I followed anyway, but only after the infidelity was revealed and which, as you know, took years to reveal.

I dont know why I felt I needed to do it in the order I did- ie uncover the infidelity, look for reasons in him, then reasons in me for toleration. On the face of it, it doesnt make sense, and I spent far too much time on step 1.

On the other hand, it is a well trodden path, and I think there must be a reason for that. I suspect that what it is , is that unless we can confirm that suspicion, we cant get away from the secret feeling that perhaps we are half or more than half of the problem, as they may well tell us. And maybe we are too worn down. I dont know.

Interesting though. Of course, my own thread included comments from heaps of people that knowing wasnt the issue, but I can see the power of it.

angelpinkcar Sat 29-Sep-12 14:35:55

More or less told H I don't want to be with him anymore and if it wasn't for the DC's I would have gone a long time ago and his reply was well there is no point staying together for the DC's. I mentioned all of the stuff that I had become resentful about, the money issues all of the time, constant arguing about money, the no help around the house, never getting a lie in. Had hardly any reaction apart from him sulking and not talking to me and trying to help out. Too little too late I am afraid. Its all being turned around to me being at fault as I predicted it would. Feel as if in limbo and not sure where to go from here now. If I uproot DC's from new school and their home it will make things even worse, anyone done tis recently how did you get on???

ickywickyyicky Sat 29-Sep-12 16:10:28

Thing is having the passwords and keeping all the phone logs and history doesn't actually work - because they delete the individual items and then say - of course I'm not in contact with her - you can see there aren't any messages or anything on the phone logs. I caught him the first time on a new phone when he didn't realise there was a screen that kept logs of in and outgoing messages. Not what was sent, just the fact there was a message. Then he set up another facebook account and deleted that from the history, and operated the existing facebook account as normal.

I am considering one of the parenting control software things that monitor keystrokes. Just wish that there was an equivalent for a Sumsung Galaxy .....

melbie Sun 30-Sep-12 04:03:55

I was about to say something and then saw your last post and see you have got there already! In some ways finding evidence of an affair would be useful in some ways in reassuring yourself that you are right but it does not sound like it will alter the course of events in a way.

You sound very unhappy in your marriage as it is. I guess you have 3 options. Work on things- relate etc together and decide to make it work (although neither of you sound keen on that), stay together with no change and be miserable (does not sound like a good option for you OR the children) or make the break and get it over and done with in as clean a manner as you can. I imagine it will all come out in the wash and you will find out the truth eventually. Spend your time and energy on thinking about how you want your life to look in a few years. There is a whole world of happiness out there and you deserve some of it!

angelpinkcar Sun 30-Sep-12 07:29:44

I feel all sorts of emotions at the moment. I am imagining it and soon i will all go away (denial) Counting down the hours until he goes back to London and I am on my own again (used to hate it but now its better than being together) and feeling really guilty for wanting to change everything and turn the DC's world upside down. Afraid that if I do it things will be worse than they were I will be worse off financially and will have to go back to a job I really don't like full time. Anyway my lie ins have ceased again and up with the DC's while H is lieing in bed snooring is head off.

I am considering one of the parenting control software things that monitor keystrokes. Just wish that there was an equivalent for a Sumsung Galaxy ..... ..... google mobistealth .. not personally used but told its pretty good

angelpinkcar Sun 07-Oct-12 16:26:15

DH back this weekend, been playing the dad of the year competition with the DC's is this normal behaviour. I was going to see if he had changed at all since our last chat, he was ok up until the point I said that there was no money left in my account. He then started going on about money an argument ensued where I calmly said well you know what to do if you don't like it. He usually sits on the computer from morning till night when he is home but all of a sudden has turned over a new leaf with the DC's not with me. I am afraid a bit too little too late as I have given him so many chances over the years and now have had enough. I think the time has come to sort this sham of a marriage out wish me luck, I feel strong enough now to go it alone........

Good luck ... and i mean that sweetie ... xx

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 07-Oct-12 18:08:53

Good luck from here too x

MushroomSoup Sun 07-Oct-12 18:34:19

Just read this through. Good luck.
Go and get fabulous again!

angelpinkcar Mon 08-Oct-12 08:54:08

Thank you all. May not be on for a while. I will be fabulous again soon just need to go and get my job back, move house change the kids schools see if I can get them back in their old one and move on, what a bloody waste of time and money this year has been but it has taught me many many lessons and shown me the light re my marriage. They say everything happens for a reason xxxxxxxx

Doha Mon 08-Oct-12 09:02:53

Goodluck Angel. come back when you can and let us know how yoy are

angelpinkcar Mon 08-Oct-12 21:47:23

Did it told him, he knew anyway that I wasn't happy, feel so sad today and can't stop crying, he didn't put up much of a fight to save our marriage. Thats what confirms it to me in my heart that there is someone else. We are quite agreeable at the moment and will try to keep it that way for as long as I can. I wanted this but feel so sorry for myself and the DC's when we tell them. I hope I can cope with everything thats going to come and will have to go back to everything that I thought I had left behind. I usually live by the moto go forward not back but not this time. Goodnight a very very sad angel, with very very droopy wings

Doha Mon 08-Oct-12 22:10:02

oh angel give it a bit of time and these wings will be in their full glory again.
Tonight you have set yourself free, and are free to spread these now droopy wings and do things and go placed that you want to go to without the millstone of your H on your back.

Tomorrow is the start of the rest/best of your life.

angelpinkcar Tue 09-Oct-12 10:44:30

I really really hope so, its what I wanted and didn't want to happen. Sounds confusing I wanted an end to the torture but wanted it to work but enough is enough, I have finally woken up and smelt the coffee and been brave and done something about it I just hope it is the right thing. In my heart I feel it is, as it won't get any better, maybe for a little while. H came out with it would have probably happened if we had stayed where we were anyway. Thanks!!!! Tosser.

Doha Tue 09-Oct-12 11:00:15

Angel sometimes we do things that don't work out and going back is the best thing to do.
Don't look on going back to what you left behind as a failure, look on it as a postive step, you tried something different, it didnt work so you are going back to something/somewhere that will work for you and your DC's.

You gave your marriage your best shot-your DH didn't. You did not fail-he did.
Go back with your head held high MN are right behind you all the way

janelikesjam Tue 09-Oct-12 11:13:31

A sad angel with droopy wings but angels sometimes feel sad sad.

Waking up and smelling the coffee, well the upside is now you can enjoy it and drink it too, even if slightly bitter-sweet.

And a little defiance - Tosser. - is always a good thing in my book anyway, keeps a sense of perspective.

Good luck.

angelpinkcar Tue 09-Oct-12 13:06:21

Thank you. It has made me cry again your comments but I also feel a bit better for reading them. I will rise like a phoenix from the ashes and start again. x

angelpinkcar Fri 12-Oct-12 07:22:30

Hi there, update, STBXH is moving out next few days. He wants a divorce now, has half heartily asked if he can move with me and the kids but no apologies no wanting a second chance, no being upset said he thought it would happen at some point. So his lack of reaction to me says it all. He has told his parents which not happy about as haven't even told mine or my family. He said they could tell from his very sad face. My arse. He needs somewhere to stay. What do you think re lack of reaction he seems upset but nothing else is this normal???

angelpinkcar Fri 12-Oct-12 07:24:17

I am really scared going it alone now but have been on my own for most of my marriage with the DC's so should be used to it, but knew STBX was coming back at some point .

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Fri 12-Oct-12 13:09:34

I know you have that sicky feeling like 'he's really gone' 'he didn't fight for us'

I have experienced those like your tummy being squashed sad

Just remember the times when it was so relaxed and quiet hand happy without him there, you can have that but full time. Hold your head up high, be proud to have seen the back of him, grieve if you need to, divorce is like bereavement really, loss of what you had, what might have been ect..

But he is unworthy of you and your tears.
Get the CD player on and play stuff that makes you feel upbeat, crack on with stuff to keep your mind busy and off him.

There is someone out there looking for a lady like you and when he finds you, you'll be treated how you deserve, he won't even think about risking losing you by cheating or otherwise being a badboy.

((hugs)) you can do this xx

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Fri 12-Oct-12 13:15:54

And he is upset because you have taken control and booted his sorry ass out.

The upset and telling you about it is a form of control.

He doesn't even know how to fight for you!
And i can't believe he is asking to move with you after everything he has done, he wants to use you for somewhere to live until what? He finds his own place? Well he needs to move back in with mum and dad then!

He's hoping that moving with you he can prove himself helpful and show you the man he used to be so you fall for him again and decide to let him stay. So rather than fight and grab you telling you he loves the bones of you and will never do anything to hurt you again, he wants to follow you to wherever you go, and wait for you to soften towards him because he's part of the furniture.

What a dick. I hope you tell him to kiss your arse if he thinks he's moving with you and ruining your potential new beginning!

Doha Fri 12-Oct-12 14:24:34

yes he is upset because he has lost control over you and the situation. He was having his cake and eating it-you were siting patiently at home while he was living the single life elsewhere.
You had your wake up call before he was ready to chose.
You are strong, much stronger than him.
You now have a future and a chance to be happy as a single parent away from all the stress.
He was the albatross around your neck stopping you. Now as a phoenix you have risen from the ashes of your relationship and are reborn into a future full of promise.
Good luck--when you moving?

Doha Fri 12-Oct-12 14:27:18

Just wondering what he has told his parents tho!!!
Guess it will be a ar flung version of the truth

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Fri 12-Oct-12 16:35:32

Oh i bet he totally rewrote history!

Scabby monkey.

I hope he realises what he's lost through his fuckwittery.

angelpinkcar Sat 13-Oct-12 07:44:52

Morning all, thanks so much for your comments as had a little wobble last night when I spoke to STBXH on the phone when he said that he been crying all the time and could we talk. I thought about it for a few seconds and then said no I am sorry but I have made up my mind and you have had your chances. Its funny how its taken him a week to decide that he wants to give it another go. Very fishy if you ask me, three days ago he was divorcing me on line and now wants to talk about what he is losing and doesn't want to loose me and the DC's. What do you think, have you those that have already gone through this did your exh say this script?????? Its a bit of a chicken and egg situation with moving but have made some roads, on estate agents books for rentals, phoned work to sort out going back, will need references and have contacted the DC's old school, they have said there are spaces. I just want to pack up and go now but have a lot to sort out, hopefully will be gone before Xmas.

MadAboutHotChoc Sat 13-Oct-12 08:24:24

Well done for being strong.

Sounds like OW may have dumped him? And if he really wanted to come back, he would have been fighting really hard, wooing you, begging for forgiveness etc.

You deserve to be FIRST choice not the fall back option.

Good luck with the move - I am sure you will be so much happier once you all are back home and able to move on properly.

angelpinkcar Mon 15-Oct-12 13:27:09

I have had some thinking time and discussions with friends that have known me for a long time. I have decided to stay put and not to move my DC's out of their lovely school and uproot them back to London. This has certainly changed his attitude, what a difference, quite happy when I was talking about selling up and moving on, now we have tears, worry, woe is me because its going to hit him hard in the pocket until I get sorted with a job etc. What a complete tosser and its taken me a week to get him to move out to his parents. I feel happier already now I know he is going. Couldn't give a toss if he is seeing anyone now, she is welcome to him, won't be much of a catch will he with no money. I asked him why he has given in so easy to splitting up and he said what is the point I don't want him. It really doesn't ring true with me, glad he isn't in a way but to me that says it all. Exactly Masaboutchoc, my thoughts exactly.

angelpinkcar Sun 21-Oct-12 08:12:13

Hi there all. Just an update. STBEX went around to my Sisters and started to discuss me and that doesn't know why I have told him to go, so I was right from the beginning its all going to be my fault I am the mad one and have lost my senses and the poor lamb has done nothing wrong. Apparently he still wants to stay friendly with me. I was fuming when I found out he was there. Did I rant. Then he tried to control the situation by talking about how he was going to take the money out of the joint account, I told him go ahead leave your DCs with no food. I really don't get it he really doesn't want this marriage obviously not that I want him back have made my mind up there but something doesn't smell right!!!!!!! I am doing my best to stay put with the DC's until it is no longer viable as its going to be horendously expensive to move etc.

Doha Sun 21-Oct-12 08:53:24

I think the OW has given him the boot-she doesn't want him fool time..
I really hope your sister didn't entertain his lies and the "poor me what have l done " nonsence, it is time you put your story out there to the people who matter but please stay dignified as you have been throughout. Nobody asks theirnDH to leave for no reason..and no DH would leave without knowing why and what he has done wrong.
Is there any chance you can get to the joint account before him and get some money out to tide you over?
Also l think legal advice re mortage , child support is needed asap before he starts withdrawing funds.
Stay strong angel, you wings are holding you up-well done

Doha Sun 21-Oct-12 08:54:18

hahahahah fool time full time =freudian slip smile

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 21-Oct-12 09:27:53

What a twat - didn't take long for him to re write history...

I would set up a new bank account and move child benefits etc.

angelpinkcar Sun 21-Oct-12 14:51:30

Ha Ha or she is on holiday???? No my sister knows what has gone on over the years so didn't believe his rubbish. Think she was trying to find out whether or not he has OW but of course he denied it. Don't know what she was thinking of. He told me that he hadn't told his mum that we had split up just that we wasn't getting on and had moved out, now from my sister apparently he has told his parents the full story and yes rewrote history. I have got my own account already, but was thinking already of putting the child benefit into my account. I had a feeling the OW was someone he used to work with so I went onto FB and she has deactivated her account for some reason. It may be conicidence but she had been posting crap about being a really tough week, loads of sayings on there about love and thinking you know someone. May be clutching at straws. I know its useless trying to find out now, the deed is done but just would scratch an irritating itch I have had for some time. Lovely to hear from you guys it keeps me going, the wings falter every now and again but soon they will be in full flight again and I can soar above all of this rubbish. x

Doha Sun 21-Oct-12 15:15:39

who does or where does the family alowance go now? I hope not to him.
Again l think you may be onto something with OW given all that has happened with him in the last week. Perhaps she has realised he is not such a great catch after all.
Please get yourself some legal advice re finances., bills etc. Is the mortyage in joint names
Don't worry about what he has been telling his parents, the truth always finds a way out sooner or later, maintain your dignity at all times. The people who are important to you now the truth and thats what matters stuff the rest of the people it's none of their business.

hebetrayedme Sun 21-Oct-12 15:25:29

Have just discovered h's affair; he had bought a SIM card specifically for contact with OW. I hope you're wrong because what I am now going through is true hell.

angelpinkcar Sun 21-Oct-12 16:48:22

Oh hebetryedme, it does get better, at least you have found out I really don't know what is worse knowing or not knowing. I would go with knowing as at least you can move on quicker and know you were not going mad. Doha the child allowance pays for the bills, I started to take it out for the kids what its meant for a few months ago and it caused so much grief I gave up. Don't worry I will get there in the end and it will be under my own steam and I will be standing on my own two feet not relying on him and living my life like I should have been years ago.

Bogeyface Netherlands Sun 21-Oct-12 19:21:10

Change the CB now and if he kicks up a stink say that as the main carer you are entitled to it. The same with Tax Credits, get a claim in tomorrow as it can take several weeks to sort it out.

angelpinkcar Sun 21-Oct-12 21:19:55

Thanks bogeyface, I will. Got a text this evening saying how much he missed us all. Ummm really???? May be he is just starting to realise I actually mean business.

Bogeyface Netherlands Sun 21-Oct-12 21:27:56

He is an arsehole! If he missed you that much then he wouldnt have thrown you all away would he?

Do not believe a word he says, especially about money, housing etc. He has proved himself to be untrustworthy. Right now it is in his interest to get back into the house, but that will change as soon as he gets his feet under the table with another OW. Get thee to a solicitor asap to make the most of his guilt, he will give you far more now when he is feeling bad than in 6 months when he has his own rent to pay aswell as contribute to your and the kids upkeep, and his OW is moaning because he cant afford to take her on holiday or whatever.

angelpinkcar Sun 21-Oct-12 21:37:03

Too True Bogeyface. I totally agree, just feeling a bit wobbly this evening as DD has been getting upset today as have told her whats going on, which made me upset. Packed a lot of his stuff today ready for him to take. I am a bit in limbo as trying to find work so we can stay where we are living which is a nightmare so may have to sell up and go back. Have prepared my DD and she is becoming accepting of the situation. She is a tough cookie and I should give her more credit. I need to stay strong,also due on so that doesn't help

angelpinkcar Sun 21-Oct-12 23:02:25

Night eveyone, sorry have been a bit vo al on here tonight with other posters going through similar to me. Thanks everyone, night and have a lovely week. I may post if get chance. xxxxx

angelpinkcar Sun 21-Oct-12 23:03:01

Soz Vocal, have a dyslexic keyboard tonight or too much red vino hahaha

Doha Sun 21-Oct-12 23:04:38

Night angel. try and get a good sleep tonight

Tomorrow is another day x

angelpinkcar Sun 21-Oct-12 23:06:59

Thank you Doha, DD in my bed tonight as she was feeling a bit upset earlie so will go and give her a cuddle. Yes tomorrow is another day and wonder what it will bring, night to you and you too have a good nights sleep.

SleeveOfWizard Sun 21-Oct-12 23:29:35

Glad to hear you sounding so positive OP. Light at the end of the tunnel and all that.

angelpinkcar Mon 22-Oct-12 10:20:24

Quick update, its starting, the will you take me back, received an email today the I love you and miss you don't want to throw away our marriage etc etc. No apology for being a shit husband for the past 2 years, can't understand why its taken him 3 weeks to say anything and on an email can't even say it to my face. What do you think? Is this what happens usually? Does it mean the OW has given him the heave ho, or he has got cold feet. I was the one that told him to leave though. For my own sanity and happiness.

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 22-Oct-12 10:26:43

This often happens - its part of the script.

The lack of apology shows that he does not give a shit about what he put you through. It sounds like he is all me me me. As you say, he is not saying it to your face so it means nothing and he is not prepared to change or show that he is really committed to saving his marriage.

Opentooffers Mon 22-Oct-12 10:55:58

Sounds like the OW has seen a side to him she does not like and given him the heave-ho. This is his fear of ending up with no one - which is exactly how he should end up given what he has put you through. Stay strong, you deserve to be nobody's 2nd best, least of all his x

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Mon 22-Oct-12 11:52:43

If OW hasn't given him the push, then he is probably sensing you managing to detach from him and thinks it prudent to reel you back in and keep you onside as a backup.

You are no-one's backup, right ?

angelpinkcar Mon 22-Oct-12 13:46:59

Thanks all, I thought as much. My instinct was right. No I am no ones back up. Is he missing me and the DC's or is it just the comfortable life he once had where everthing was done for him, me thinks the later. Not falling for it. Not buying the I am not very good at talking about my feelings, as it never used to stop him in the past, all of sudden he can't talk to me anymore about how he feels, more like he can't be bothered.

angelpinkcar Wed 24-Oct-12 15:30:53

Just spoken to H away from the DC's. I am not a happy bunny, I asked him why its taken nearly a month after him leaving to have a conversation with me about where did it go wrong, I miss you and the DC's (him not me) I have been in shock, I wanted to give you space. I said well you didn't sound in shock when you suggested getting divorced 3 days after we split up. He said he was protecting himself. I confronted him re another woman which he denied then ranted for a bit then said why would he do that to jepordise ever getting back with me, I think he let something slip there. I aked him about why he deletes history texts then he throws it back at me deflection tatics. He wasn't too bad when he thought it was all down to him being a complete shit but now I have bought up being an OW he is getting a bit twitchy. I was feeling really sorry for myself today worried about the future, where would me and the DC's end up frightened of ever having another relationship incase they were a weirdo and wanting to hurt my DC's , frightened that my H would start playing silly buggers with the kids etc. Now I am pissed off and ready for it. Is this normal for whats happening with me at the moment any advice please wise mumsnetters.

Bogeyface Netherlands Wed 24-Oct-12 15:50:59

Oh nice one! I am glad you gave him a hard time!

T
Yep, this is exactly what happens.

He leaves, make you feel like shit, lies, and makes you think you are going mad

OW dumps him or he realises she isnt the heavenly angel he thought she was, and he wants to come back. He doesnt apologise, doesnt try and make up for it, just expects you to be grateful he "chose" you.

He tries to rewrite history (again) so that none of this is his fault and YABU for not trying again.

And thats where it all goes wrong, because in his world, you cave in, he comes home and everything is lovely until the next OW comes along. But in reality you tell him to go and fuck himself and he is left on his own, without you, the kids, the nice comfortable life and everyone knows why.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Wed 24-Oct-12 15:55:33

I say "well done you"

and "tough titty, you made your choice, sunshine" to him

what did he expect ?

you were waiting by the door for him every night, like a faithful old labrador missing her master ?

fuck that

angelpinkcar Wed 24-Oct-12 16:07:55

Thanks Bogeyface and HHMF, also he let something slip again by saying it really threw him when I said lets split up and he hadn't prepared for it, like he was going to leave me anyway and I got there first. I really think I did you know, thats why there was no shock, no tears from him when I said lets call it a day. Nothing like why are you doing this to me etc etc, like I would have done it I was shocked if someone had said to me what I had said to H. None of it makes any sense to me other than the fact he isn't that bothered and as you say misses his comfortable home, his DC's. He also made me laugh when he said he doesn't mind me not working and likes me being off with the DC's which is complete bollocks. As this is what started it all. Me not working and being on a sabatical. Something feels really wrong here....

Bogeyface Netherlands Wed 24-Oct-12 16:14:49

He had it planned to leave when he was ready and you pulled the rug out when you got in first.

Then, because you didnt play the game properly, he was put out that you dont want him! Its got nothing to do with him loving you as he wouldnt treat you like this if he did, but to do with his ego. He has to prove that he could have you back if he wanted to, but you are buggering that up by telling him that actually, no he cant!

Stick to your guns. He is playing you and sooner or later, the truth will come out.

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Wed 24-Oct-12 16:16:13

You outplayed at his own game smile

HappyHalloweenMotherFucker Wed 24-Oct-12 16:16:35

*him

MadAboutHotChoc Wed 24-Oct-12 16:42:25

Yes, you should be proud of yourself for staying strong.

He is pissed off cos his plans are falling apart - he was expecting you be a doormat.

angelpinkcar Fri 02-Nov-12 08:32:33

Hi there all, just got back from a half term break away. It was full on with the two DC's on my own but they were very good. Went to vist DPs abroad so didn't really have much time to think about whats going on back home. H picked us all up, it was a bit weird not having a hug from him but not that I was expecting one. When I got back home there was a card and flowers from him, wanting me to give him another chance but what I thought was that he still can't admit that he has done anything wrong or am I reading into it too much. Without outing myself on here the line was "I know you have been treated badly" by who I ask???? where is the sorry there??? Its never said to my face as I am more of a face to face kind of person, its either a weird email and now a card. If it was me trying to woo someone back I would be doing a hell of a lot more than that, what do you think????

angelpinkcar Mon 31-Dec-12 11:14:01

Hi all,
Its been 3 months now since split with H. I am still living in the house with the DC's, H is living at his mum and dads. Someone has offered to buy the house which is going through slowly. My DPs think I should stay put as its a really lovely place to bring the DC's up and I haven't been at work for nearly a year. The longer it goes on the more I agree with them. I have been looking for work here, its in the South West but not a lot going on. Really need some advice now as time is ticking away. H has been paying for everything up until now so you can imagine thats not going to last and is pushing for this, me to move on backe to London and go back to my old job which I really don't want to do. Don't know where to start really, what would you do in my situation. Hope someone can help

Ebayaholic Tue 01-Jan-13 19:26:18

Hi and congratulations on the strength and dignity you have shown throughout. You must do what is best for you - work out what you want and start making it all happen. Where would you receive the most support?

angelpinkcar Tue 01-Jan-13 22:07:54

Hi Ebayaholic,

I have been thinking about it over the last couple of days and chatting with friends and family. Some think I should stay and step up my search for a job and rent down here. Others think I should go back. I have been writing down pros and cons of all options. A lot of the cons can be overcome in all options but the place where I would get the most support is going back. I have also discussed it with the DC's and they are ok going back and hopefully will adapt. I walked along the beach with them today and it felt so lovely and sad almost that it won't last for much longer if I decide to move back. It does tear me apart making this decision as it was my dream to love here. Am I being too soft and sentimental and need to get back to reality may be and stop living in my bubble where I have been for the past year???

Ebayaholic Thu 03-Jan-13 19:38:19

Hi Angel
You need to go with your gut instinct, which seems to be saying go back. I am definitely of the opinion that family ties and support trump all else and as you are vulnerable at the moment you should be wherever you feel safest. Your DC would probably benefit too and this may relieve some of your stress. Remember, you don't have to make permanent decisions as yet.

angelpinkcar Fri 04-Jan-13 09:17:31

Hi Ebayaholic,

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I have started telling friends I have made down here that I have split from H and thinking of going back, they don't want me to go bless them. Its a really tough decision and I didn't envisage being so difficult. I thought at first well thats it not working so lets go back and start again but now things have gone on for a while like the sale of the family home which is taking an age it seems because of Christmas, being at home over the Christmas holidays, going back up to London then visiting where we will be potentially moving back to my heart sank. Do I need to go with my heart or my head on this one??? It changes from day to day. My DD said we should go back and I should stop listening to eveyone else, bless her so wise at such a young age. She is so right though, I should do what I think is right. They are coing around to the idea now so is it me that wants to stay?????!!!!

Ebayaholic Sun 06-Jan-13 16:51:33

Hi angel
Sorry for late reply. Rather than trying to work out which is the best decision, which is the least bad decision? If you say to yourself that you'll move back, is there a sense of relief? What about the other way round?
Good luck to you, one thing is certain and that's you will be ok- you are strong and you have dignity. In the long run you will be better off than he- I've seen it so many times.

angelpinkcar Tue 22-Jan-13 13:31:07

I feel more agitated,anxious upset and annoyed , about going back but really scared about staying as I don't have any family as such here. I don't want to loose my house either, we love our house. I know its only bricks and mortar but I have worked hard to get it. I feel worried about finances if I stay where I am but will be no better off if I move back but will have more support back there. Although the support have been doing my head in lately and not being very supportive with their comments.

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