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I am a shrew but is DH an arse? (long)

(130 Posts)
braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 12:20:08

Not sure what to do. Yesterday we went to the Olympics to see the diving. Long wait to the awards ceremony, so suggested we leave early and go look round the park (DD lolling around complaining she was hot). Kids fought on and off all day and I did snap at them. When we get home at long last, I start getting them ready for bed. Yell at DD not to get out of the bath to show her dad her blister but to get back in and finish off first. DH then snaps, throws washing basket on ground, calls me a bitch in front of the kids and then says I ruined his day by leaving the Aquatic centre before the awards ceremony. I'm completely flummoxed but apparently he'd already told me earlier that this was what he wanted to do and I'd put him in a bad position by asking to leave (and then clearly sulked about it for the rest of the day).

Later on I tell him it was unacceptable behaviour, he then says I ruined his life by having a second child and we should separate and take one kid each as this is the only way to stop them fighting. Refuses to apologise and says his life is being ruined by the negativity around the children. Then tells me that i ruined his day by insisting we leave the awards ceremony. I told him I would have stayed if he'd said so but he didn't - I can't see that I did wrong but according to him it is all my fault and I should have remembered that he'd said before he wanted to watch it and I'd put him in an awkward position.

We do fight a lot, we snap at the kids a lot, they fight a lot. We are a disharmonious family. We could probably do with parenting lessons. But this is extreme surely?

DH always drags up old ground, criticises my parenting in front of the kids as says I yell too much. But the other weekend he threw a cup of water in DD's face as she was rude to him when he asked her what she wanted to drink (she said "whatever"). No apology to any of us, I just had to take a screaming DD upstairs to bed.

I'm sure if I were a better parent then life would be better. But do I have a right to expect better behaviour from him. Both DD and DS challenging - DS constantly in trouble at school (10), DD (7) very dramatic and high-maintenance at home (always screaming!). We got an educational psychologist to see DS as the school were up in arms - more money out the door. I am worried that DH will walk out as he finds the kids unbearable, to be honest I couldn't afford to live with the kids on my own. Should I just bite my tongue and get on with life?

ImperialBlether Tue 31-Jul-12 12:27:15

Oh god what an awful situation. It seems as though you two are causing the trouble and your poor children are responding with really bad behaviour.

Something needs to be done. You know that your children will be friendless tearaways if they carry on like this.

Putting the money aside for a moment, how do you think life for you would be as a single mum? You would then have control over what the children do and how they behave. Do you think things would be better?

curmit Tue 31-Jul-12 12:28:48

He threw a glass of water in her face? That's awful. Could you go to family councelling through your GP? - It's free I think. Or certainly you could both go to marriage councelling through your GP and go from there. He is obviously harbouring a lot of bad feeling and it is coming out in these explosive incidents.

mostlyhappy Tue 31-Jul-12 12:31:22

I think his suggestion that you each take a child each is appalling - does he have no idea about child-rearing? Maybe you are being so snappy with the children because you find your relationship with your husband to be so stressful and separating could calm things down?

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 12:33:08

to be honest I think parenting the two of them on their own would drive me mad. They do bicker constantly. DS definitely has something going on - he is basically a control freak, responds with anger if things don't go his way and has zero social skills. DD more "normal" at school but horribly high maintenance regardless. To my shame I yell at them that if they don't behave I will leave them with the nanny full time and work rather than look after them as it is so stressful. They are better separated, they are very competitive for attention and needy (why are they so needy? my parents basically ignored me and I got on with life).

Feel very isolated and not sure what to do.

EdithWeston Tue 31-Jul-12 12:33:45

It sounds as if he is having a "straw that broke the camel's back" moment.

He attached importance to seeing the rewards ceremony, you don't even remember him telling you this. There may be many such previous incidents. He puts up with it quietly, you don't realise the impact until he snaps.

Perhaps that's why he keeps dragging old stuff up - he still doesn't think you attach importance to his pov. This doesn't excuse behaviour, but may explain it. There are probably lots of factors involved.

This isn't about your "rights". This is about a family in trouble.

Parenting classes would be a good start point.

Themumsnot Tue 31-Jul-12 12:34:56

I'm sorry, I can't get past the fact that he threw a cup of water in your DD's face. You do know this is assault don't you? No normal parent behaves like that.
Being blunt, you need to model harmonious behaviour for your DC - their bad behaviour is a direct product of what they are seeing from you and your DH, not a cause of it. So you need to be analysing carefully how this toxic relationship between you and your DH has come about and what you both can do to remedy it.
Has he always been like this or is it just since the children arrived? Just from what you have posted it sounds as if he is the main instigator of the disharmony in your family, but be honest with yourself - what can you do to change your behaviour and will it help enough? How much does he need to change his behaviour and will he be willing to? One thing is for sure, you can't carry on the way you are going. You and your DH need to accept responsibility for your children's behaviour and change before it is too late.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 12:38:28

I do yell a lot, i come from a yelling background (one of five kids, I think my mum went mad when she had the fifth). But I yell then forget about it. DH snaps, goes mad (and really does go mad, yelling abuse at all of us). and then never ever apologises or backs down. It makes me nervous as I don't really want him to leave and it always feels like a threat.

Kaluki Tue 31-Jul-12 12:38:29

He threw a glass of water at her?
The way you describe your dc is quite shocking!
No wonder they are out of control.
Time to make some changes - both you and your DH need to calm down and work out how you are going to parent these kids and I think you need to get professional help to do this.
You absolutely can't have one child each! That is an appalling suggestion!!!

BelieveInPink Tue 31-Jul-12 12:45:24

Your children's behaviour is a direct result of you and your husband's behaviour. I can say that as an outsider.

That's all I had to say really, until I read that he threw a drink in a 7 year old's face. That changes things completely.

CailinDana Tue 31-Jul-12 12:52:22

If my DH threw a glass of water in my child's face he would be out on his arse, and he's actually a nice person. Your husband sounds like a nasty bully and it looks to me like the children would be far better off without him. That said, if you're a yeller then you need to look at ways to discipline without verbal abuse too.

TubbyDuffs Tue 31-Jul-12 12:54:08

Your description of your son sounds just like your husband!

You do need family counselling of some sort. You cannot honestly believe that splitting your children up is the answer.

Do you think you should be able to just ignore the children and they should just get on with it?

What is your normal day with the children, do you interact much with them?

I have 3 children, and yes there can be a lot of bickering, but some days they can be the best of friends, and that more than makes up for the "bad" times!

If the house is full of screaming and shouting, it isn't going to feel like a safe or very nice environment for any of you. Please seek help.

Sarcalogos Tue 31-Jul-12 12:55:27

Sort out yourselves and the kids will follow.

You cannot tackle their behaviour until you sort out your own.

I cannot believe your DH chucked water into your child's face and you allowed things to continue with no apology from him.

If he is just NOT sorry for behaviour like this im not sure anyone on MN can help you sort it out.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 12:58:08

off to lunch will look at this later. I know I yell too much. But would this fix DH? There are so many stress points in our relationship: work, kids, money, getting things done. We don't seem to have any time or any ability to do things. I need better communication tools, but how would I know about the bloody awards ceremony if he didn't tell me at the time? TBH it feels like he wants me to be a mindreader.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 13:03:37

Tubby of course I don't ignore my children. But I don't really do "games" either - I am happy to talk to them, take them out, and go on walks/shopping/out and about but I don't do lego. And when I am home I have chores to do, homework to supervise, etc. So I am deficient (admit this am not a Blue Peter mum at all), but not totally absent (at least not in body!).

HumphreyCobbler Tue 31-Jul-12 13:08:01

I think you all need to sit down and have a think about how you communicate. Ask for some help/family therapy. You all need to sort yourselves out, and I sense that you are ready to try. I hope your DH is too. You owe it to your children.

The throwing water incident is truly shocking.

2fedup Tue 31-Jul-12 13:14:04

Please get yourselves some family counselling as even if you split if the relationship isn't improved, things will still be hard.
I feel for all of you as it sounds like a horrible way to live. No one is perfect, but if you look firstly at your own behaviour as this is the only bit that is in tour control. shouting raises everyone's tension levels and if you are shouting often, somtimes, you are not listening effectively, so taking 10 secs to think about the impact may help just to calm everything down a little bit and make things more manageable on a day to day level.

TubbyDuffs Tue 31-Jul-12 13:18:26

Sorry brake not meaning to make out you are a crap parent, just picked up on the fact that your parents ignored you and wondered if you thought this was normal parenting.

The situation can't be good for any of you.

I totally sympathise with you, as I know when I try and get anything done round our house, the kids will play up terribly. If I leave the housework and play with them instead, they are great. Problem is then the house is a tip! I have given mine dusters and cloths before now and given them jobs to do, so that we are all "playing" together, however that has backfired when the eldest decided to shower the whole bathroom including ceiling once (so probably not the best advice). Mine are a bit younger than yours though so are easier to engage/distract.

You do need to communicate as a family. Have you thought of sitting down and having a "family meeting" to try and get some house rules on paper, including a no shouting rule (and definitely a no throwing water in faces rule)? Just remember seeing this type of thing on a programme that used to be on, the name of which I can't remember, but basically they changed the parents/children's lifestyles with very good results.

Callisto Tue 31-Jul-12 13:20:40

Your family life sounds absolute hell to me. One parent constantly yelling, the other parent constantly blowing his top. It's no wonder your children behave the way they do. And how can you all live like this - I would have a breakdown or similar if I had to live in this sort of toxic atmosphere. None of you sound happy, your children are 'needy' because they are living on a knife edge all of the time.

You really, really both need some parenting classes and marraige councelling wouldn't go amiss either. You need to do it now before it is too late for your children (who I feel deeply sorry for, particularly your son).

OxfordBags Tue 31-Jul-12 13:27:59

I am amazed at how you can't see how your DCs' respective issues are so blatantly caused by not only how both of their parents behave badly as individuals but how you interact and parent together. If my parents were like that, I'd become obsessive, needy, scared of people, etc. If you carry on like this, the poor things have no sense of security, of harmony, of knowing what's going to happen next... apart from the fact that one or both parents will inevitably going to go loopy over trivia and upset and terrify them. That instability and constant fear will make a child controlling and quick to anger out of fear and seeing people who you like the most in the world be so nasty randomly will hardly inspire confidence in making friends, because if your parents will turn on you or each other, who is to say a friend won't do the same? And similarly with your daughter being high-maintenance; if you model screeching and drama for her, she will act that way. If her needs for security and calm are never met, she is going to push and push and push to get other needs met, simply because she has no faith in getting needs met so she feels she needs to go over the top to either get the attention required or to force things into happening. You two are so locked into your own dramas, personally and together, that the only way to get your attention is to act up. You must be able to see this, surely? And you don't do anything fun or creative or on their level, so how do you expect them to get positive emotion.

They see you two unable to control your own emotions and behaviour and yet when they don't behave how you want them to, you threaten them with abandonment (leaving them with the nanny). You know you'd be back, but that must be a terrifying threat for them. If you two adults can't control yourselves, why are you expecting children to?! And how are they supposed to learn if they don't witness you doing it?!

I think your DH was a passive-aggressive manchild twat to speak to you how he did, but frankly that is the most trivial of everything you mention here; your relationship sounds horribly toxic and your children sound really damaged by it already. Sorry to be harsh, but it's true. You mention parenting classes and so on - you really, really need to change. Things like throwing water into a child's face and saying you should take one child each are seriously abusive and abnormal.

Themumsnot Tue 31-Jul-12 13:48:43

Brake - you need to address some of the pertinent questions people have asked on this thread. You appear to be in denial of the fact that you and your DH are both abusing your children and your behaviour is the cause of their problems. If you don't face up to that you can't make things better.
What is coming across from your replies is that you are fixating on the tangential issue of the awards ceremony to distract from the main problem which is the effect that your very disfunctional relationship is having on your children.
You have to start by changing your own behaviour and making it clear to your husband that he has to change his rather than, as you seem to be doing here, trying to justify not doing anything on the grounds that you can't 'fix' your DH. Only he can do that, but it doesn't excuse you from not fixing yourself.

monsterchild Tue 31-Jul-12 14:02:33

Brake, it also sounds like you perhaps don't listen to your DH very well. If he isn't lying, and he had to blow his top to get your attention (which is what it sounds like) then YOU need to figure out how to listen. your DS and DD's reactions also say they are not being heard unless they act out too. Having to be controlling, acting out in school, drama and hysterics are all signs that kids aren't being heard.

I agree with everyone on here that you need to admit that you and DH need counselling to figure out how you can listen and he can control his outbursts, THEN get on with parenting the kids.

Kids reflect their parents, so model proper behavior. And being ignored by your parents isn't a reason to ignore your own! I was also ignored, and I won't do that to my kids! I had to learn to listen to other people, learn to really hear what they were saying rather than nod and go my merry way because no one ever taught me to give a damn.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 14:23:06

Wasn't aware I was ignoring questions - maybe you can spell them out for me?

I guess what I'm looking for is guidance on how to improve communication. Don't think I can get DH to counselling so what you seem to be saying is that I have to change and find ways of chilling out/not yelling/not reacting.

ImperialBlether Tue 31-Jul-12 14:31:29

I've read your other thread where you describe your son. You wrote it in March 2011 and say that your son is dreamy and disorganised. In the last year, then, he's become a lot of trouble.

What has happened in the last year to make him so unhappy?

Frankly, you made me really angry when you said you don't "do" lego or games. Why not? Because you don't want to? Do you think it's worth doing something calming with the children because they want to do it?

When your daughter tried to get out of the bath to show her dad her blister, was your first instinct to yell? Did you speak to her quietly at first? How long did it take from her initial decision to jump out of the bath until you yelled at her?

Can I ask what your job is? Do you deal with people? What kind of skills do you have to use at work? How long could you keep your job if your reaction is to yell?

Callisto Tue 31-Jul-12 14:41:16

Brake - if you read the replies you will figure out the questions we are asking. Is this how you ignore your own family too?

Whether or not you can get your husband to councelling, YOU need to get yourself to councelling and also parenting classes. Many people have suggested this, but you're still asking what you shoud do. hmm

osterleymama Tue 31-Jul-12 14:55:00

Some of the questions are

Do you see that your children's behaviour is BECAUSE of how you and your DH behave toward each other and them?

Can you see they don't feel safe because the people they rely on are unpredictable and volatile and this will make them controlling and needy?

Do you agree that throwing water in a seven year olds face is abusive?

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 14:55:12

christ Callisto I'm not posting under AIBU!

I guess I am being thick because the only question I can find is this one:

Has he always been like this or is it just since the children arrived?

DH always been a bit of a manic depressive (up and down) and I have always been someone who yells first and apologises later. You will be thankful to know that most of the time I don't do this at work! I do grumble but my staff generally praise my management skills, heh.

Or perhaps these are the questions although they tend to masked by pejorative statements about me:

am I aware that my behaviour and DH's is not good modelling behaviour for the kids?

Yes of course. Wouldn't be posting here otherwise.

Why don't I do lego - well, it seems to me that lego is a very private thing - you make your own world. DD does this, DS doesn't. I did try playing card games but DD always cries when she loses so we don't tend to. But do try eg playing catch?

DS - well yes he is very dreamy and disorganised. But he is also trouble and always has been at school, starting from nursery, and has found it very hard to make friends. I could go into the psych report but this is perhaps not pertinent here. DD on the other hand is a model student and reasonably well like - although I do see some controlling instincts they are masked by her desire to be liked and she has the social skills to keep them in check.

AgathaFusty Tue 31-Jul-12 14:55:52

You are clearly under a lot of stress, as is your partner, and as are your children. You are at least reaching out for advice and suggestions. Have you tried to stop yelling at them, tried anger management techniques? It might be worth reading up on some of those, or discussing your problem with anger with your GP, to see if s/he can offer any help or suggestions.

You say that your DS "definitely has something going on" - I assume you mean something like ADHD, but not necessarily that? Have you spoken to your GP and the school to ask their opinions? Does his Dad agree with you about this? If so, what research has he done to try to find out what might be the problem?

This sounds an awful way to live, for all of you.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 15:00:01

on the water thing I was shocked but it is interesting to see how many of you are (because DH hasn't really admitted it).

cestlavielife Tue 31-Jul-12 15:03:24

seek out some counselling and parenting classes for you .

invite dh along but if he refuses dont worry so much - just getting chance to look at your own behaviour / get advice on parenting techniques will help.
[so you can then use them on dh too...]

dont focus on playing with lego or not - there are other ways to do stuff as a family, take a walk, take them to park etc.

but you could sit down with them and do for example drawing - all of you draw your family might be interesting to see how the dc draw you and h ....

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 15:05:23

and some of it is resentment. I know I yell too much. But DH just blames his bad behaviour on me and the kids, not his own lack of self control. it's hard to be selfless when you resent someone's behaviour so much.

cestlavielife Tue 31-Jul-12 15:06:00

and dont issue threats you wont carry out - you yell at them "if they don't behave I will leave them with the nanny full time and work "

if you need /want to work and leave them with a nanny then do it - but not as a punishment....

and try and stop yelling.
take a breath before you yell...
turn your voice to calm low but firm voice.

cestlavielife Tue 31-Jul-12 15:06:47

you cannot change h's behaviour - only he can

but you can surely start by changing yours.

stop yelling.

FussArse Tue 31-Jul-12 15:10:28

This is awful for all 4 of you. Please seek help.

I used to be the shouter in my family (like my dad before me) and I even got my GP to send me on an anger management course which didn't help.

What did help was when DH and I ended up in couples counselling for an unrelated matter. The shouting came up and the counsellor really helped. I would never have believed it possible to make such a radical change. Being controlled by your temper is a horrible way to live but I used to be raging before I was even aware that I was cross. Not any more though and I wish I'd had this help years ago.

My genuine advice to you is that if your husband won't change, he needs to leave, for the sake of your children. 1 of you getting help with this really won't work.

Just FYI, there is mild ASD in my family and some things you have said about your son and yourself are ringing bells.

crazygracieuk Tue 31-Jul-12 15:11:51

My children have put me in the water situation too. I have responded by saying "Oh, you don't want any water." and not made them a drink.
Throwing a drink is really shocking.

osterleymama Tue 31-Jul-12 15:13:36

You don't sound like you're in much danger of being selfless. You say you yell and then forget about it, I bet the kids don't forget. Think about how scary and stressful it is for someone bigger than you to start screaming every time you mess up. Which all children do because they are learning how to control their emotions.

You seem to be saying "I yell but DH is worse and it's not my fault because he won't take responsibility". Grow up, refuse to engage in squabbling and one-upmanship with the other ADULT and protect your children.

Your DH and the water incident is awful, you tolerating it is awful. Who is going to protect that little girl?

FussArse Tue 31-Jul-12 15:16:51

Woa here a minute ladies.

This woman is well aware that things are bad and she needs help.

Yes the water thing is awful but let's save the 'shoot from the hip' judgy pants for AIBU.

She is asking for advice - not an angry pasting.

You see, here's the thing. When one parent is dashing water in a child's face and the other is yelling and screaming and you are considering taking one child each if you seperate, you must know why your children behave the way they do. And you must know you need counseling, you, DH, and family counseling. You must know this.

You know your DCs are not growing up in a good environment. So I don't understand why you are posting here asking what to do. Have you tried anything different? Have you put any strategies in place?

And btw to say you would take one child each is pretty awful.

FussArse Tue 31-Jul-12 15:22:46

She clearly doesn't or why would she be asking for advice and opening herself up like this hmm

Offred Tue 31-Jul-12 15:24:54

shock yes he is an arse...

Offred Tue 31-Jul-12 15:25:42

Yes some kind of family therapy would be best, maybe counselling for you two.

CoteDAzur Tue 31-Jul-12 15:28:15

As someone else said, sort yourself out and the rest should follow. You and your DH need to act like adults rather than children.

What do you think yelling accomplishes? Surely you know by now that it doesn't turn children into obedient angels. Quite the contrary.

Throwing a drink into the face of a 7 yr old girl for a sulky answer is truly shocking. 7 yr old girls are sulky, moody, and whiney. I know, because I have one smile Still you need to lead by example and show her how to talk/act in a socially acceptable manner.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 15:37:38

FussArse what do you think made the difference? Any tips?

I am pretty sure DH won't go near a counsellor and tbh having forked out close to £1k on getting advice on DS I don't think I can afford any help for me!

on DS - i think he has a very strong world view and if things don't go according to this then he gets cross - it's his way of making sense of things. However teachers and children don't appreciate being told what to do by a 10yr old, even if sometimes he is right. And there are some things he does that drive me wild (automatically doing the one thing I've just said don't do is one). I get on much better with DD but she is the one who drives DH mad.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 15:44:02

why do people post on Mumsnet? It's because they can't tell anybody else what's going on without feeling vulnerable. I forgot I'd used this nickname for DS before (and also for my lust for a mulberry bag) but basically I post because I'm trying to work out in my own head whether my life is shit or not.

oh and it was not me saying we would take one child each - that was DH's solution which prompted all of this posting.

Yelling - don't any of you ever yell? i guess not. I am not a patient person, I am an angry person, and my kids annoy me hence I yell. At work nobody annoys me so I don't yell. Yelling is an indulgence, it is a lack of self control - I know that, but I lack the self discipline not to yell because I do care whether eg we get to school on time.

vezzie Tue 31-Jul-12 15:44:51

Why is everyone being horrible to the OP about the "one child each" thing? That was her H's suggestion, not hers, no?

I was upset as much as anything by the fact that her H openly says (repeatedly?) that the second child ruins his life. How can you wish your child didn't exist - and say so? Her H is not taking responsibility for anything. He is saying that the child ruined his life, the two fighting are ruining his life, the child exists because of its mother, ergo everything is someone else's fault and he gets off scot free. He sounds like a pathetic teenager.
They are his children (and hers); he needs to be a parent, and set the tone, not react to the children's tone. Fighty whiney children do drive you up the wall, but you just have to fake it and pretend you don't want to run screaming for the hills, not start whining and being aggressive yourself. I get the sense that OP knows this but he doesn't (OP was trying to mitigate the whining by going for a walk, in other words finding ways to facilitate their decent behavior even if putting aside your preferences to see the awards or whatever). I think it is pathetic that he thinks he is a victim of the tone set by the children when it is his job to enforce - singlehandedly if necessary - the tone he would prefer. Be the change you want, I suppose. Truer even of parents than anyone.

rainbowinthesky Tue 31-Jul-12 15:45:45

Op, you seem to think yelling is normal. It's not. I dont yell neither does do. I hope you seek the help you need.

BadLad Tue 31-Jul-12 15:48:22

I think you both need to see that your behaviour is unacceptable and very far from putting the children first. If you will excuse the psychobabble, the two of you admitting that there is a problem will be a massive step on the way to the solution. But it sounds as if both of you take the option of blaming the other person.

That said, you don't make your partner out to be very approachable, at least not at the moment, so it's easier said than done. At the very minimum, I would ask him to discuss any issues he has with you out of earshot of the children.

Are you sure you want to be in this relationship? I know you said you can't afford not to have your partner, but he can't just disown his own kids. Sounds like nobody is happy right now.

vezzie Tue 31-Jul-12 15:49:02

x-post with OP - I also meant to ask Fussarse if she could share some of the anger stuff that actually worked.

CinnabarRed Tue 31-Jul-12 15:51:47

OP, if you gave your DH an ultimatum - counselling or bust - would he go?

Dozer Tue 31-Jul-12 15:56:15

You seem to think it's OK to yell at your DC because you are "like that" they annoy you!

It is not OK. Stop excusing yourself, and him.

Do you and DH love each other? If not, you should split up.

Yes, i yell at times. I hate it. No one is a perfect parent. Although some of us give that impression, on here particularly hmm

I think that you would both benefit from going to Parenting Classes, yes. Your DH must surely acknowledge throwing a cup of water in his young daughter's face is the worse thing he should be doing and then he wonders why she's on the ceiling?

And the constant pulling apart of your parenting skills infront of the children is a no no too. They copy the argumentative unhappy tension at home and the only way you can change things is by being a united front or going your seperate ways. I think you need some serious talks.

And he sounds like he needs anger management tbh.

crazygracieuk Tue 31-Jul-12 16:00:22

I shout sometimes but it's not a regular thing despite the fact I am at home with 3 kids (school holidays) and they have bickered or been annoying. I find that yelling is pretty ineffective unless the child is far away and needs to be warned about at approaching car or something urgent.

Children's Centres run free parenting courses. The Centres themselves are usually aimed at under 5s but I went on a course for under 10s.

Have you read any parenting books? I can recommend 123 Magic as a firm but calmer approach to patenting and discipline.

You can't change your h but you can change yourself. As the others said I bet your children change for the better if you work on yourself (especially your dd) because they will see you modelling how to communicate better.

It's a shame that your dh is unlikely to work on himself as your son sounds like a younger version of his Dad. sad

crazygracieuk Tue 31-Jul-12 16:02:24

Do people at work really never annoy you?

Or do they annoy you but you use more socially acceptable methods to deal with them like biting your tongue, taking deep breaths etc?

I ask because you sound pretty volatile too?

Dozer Tue 31-Jul-12 16:03:37

I was brought up in a yelling family, at times it was v scary and my siblings and I often felt anxious. Seeing parents lose control, worrying about when it'd happen again. I almost never shout at the DC and yes I do judge people who do because it has bad effects.

vezzie Tue 31-Jul-12 16:06:17

People are saying yelling isn't normal. I don't know about this. I am not trying to excuse it but in my childhood it was (in my family and in others). Maybe we have higher standards now? That would be good, if it means happier children. But how do we get there?

FussArse Tue 31-Jul-12 16:07:48

I thought everybody yelled too.
People who don't - please stop telling the OH to 'just stop' - it isn't as simple as that - it really really really isn't. So it's NOT helpful.

For those who asked what worked:
I grew up in a family where there was lots of yelling. It was learned behaviour for me. Through a wonderful therapist, I learned what my schemas are and the reasons why I came to behave as I did. It was hard to do this - and painful as I felt very disloyal to parents who are no longer here to put 'their side'.

I learned that I needed to be able to express what my feelings and needs are. What was happening was that I had found a way to clamp down on them-not even acknowledging they were there, even to myself - until they exploded in rages that surprised me as much as anyone else. I learned to spot my 'bothered' stage and deal with it instead of squashing it. It took a short while to be able to do this but I can now.

This works when the anger management techniques and the 'counting to 10' stuff didn't. I meet my needs before the rage because I'm aware of how I feel and I do something about it. I wasn't before.

I do remember the therapist asking my DH how he felt when I shouted. I'll never forget what he said or the look on his face and I don't feel I can share it sorry. It didn't make me able to control my temper in itself but it was an extremely powerful motivator. Until then, I had always had a shout, felt better and thought the air was cleared and there's an end to it. It's not like that though.

FWIW going to the GP and saying straight out, I think my son has ASD traits and I'd like a referral to the paed worked and like turned around from then as regards being able to understand him and meet his needs.

FussArse Tue 31-Jul-12 16:18:25

that's 'life' not 'like' in that last sentence

vezzie Tue 31-Jul-12 16:19:50

FussArse, brilliant post. Thank you for sharing that.

CinnabarRed Tue 31-Jul-12 16:25:53

Until then, I had always had a shout, felt better and thought the air was cleared and there's an end to it. It's not like that though.

I think that's really important. If you're a non-shouter then being shouted at leaves an echo of fear rolling through the rest of your life.

Your children are needy because they are feeling insecure. Especially the youngest, if she feels that her father didn't want her.In an extreme way it could be that they are scared you don't love them. I know that mine are more 'needy' when they sense I am stressed or unhappy.
I think that throwing a glass of water in a child's face was a dreadful thing to do and anyone who did that to my child would be sleeping on the pavement until they had attended anger management classes.
Can't you try to enjoy your children a bit more? Mine are infuriating and I have been known to raise my voice, but they are so much fun inbetween times.

mrsbabookaloo Tue 31-Jul-12 16:26:09

Wrote a long and supportive post, but it disappeared.

In brief: I don't judge you for yelling, or for not doing lego. Am sorry that some people on here have been disapproving and unsupportive.

Think you need to identify all the problems and deal with them one at a time, your son's problems, your DH's and yours.

Take time for yourself and take time to spend with each child on their own. This is really important I think.

It's not easy to stop yelling. I am not doing well at trying to stop. FussArse, what kind of counselling did you do?

A couple of ideas which may help, although they sound a bit simple: doing Yoga, and reading Calmer Happier Easier Parenting.

Mostly, I just want to send you some support. You are in a difficult situation and came here for advice.

cestlavielife Tue 31-Jul-12 16:40:40

"I lack the self discipline not to yell because I do care whether eg we get to school on time."

yeh i get that - "come on it's late we going to be late " etc... once in a while...but if happens each and every day then you need to look at changing the routine. getting ready earlier. packing up as much as you can the night before. etc.

what can you change ?
look at the
antecedents - what happens before (you runnng late for school - so tomorrow you get up earlier... )
behaviour - yelling - how can you change that ? deep breaths count to 10 etc
consequence - what is consequence of the behaviour eg everyone is unhappy and whether by changing a and b you can get a different consequence

I agree h has lots of issues. but op cant change the h ....only he can.
maybe one person has to take charge to alter the dynamic here?
break the cycle?
then if h doesnt change - he has to go...

CoteDAzur Tue 31-Jul-12 16:55:12

"I am not a patient person, I am an angry person, and my kids annoy me hence I yell. At work nobody annoys me so I don't yell."

Surely some work colleagues annoy you at least some of the time. You don't yell at them because there would be consequences. You yell at your children with abandon because they are small & helpless, so there are no consequences (you think) sad

"Yelling is an indulgence, it is a lack of self control - I know that, but I lack the self discipline not to yell"

Find that self-discipline. Think of your children as people, like your colleagues at work. Talk to them like you talk to strangers on the street - with respect.

"because I do care whether eg we get to school on time"

That's rubbish, and you know it. Or do you really think parents who don't yell on a regular basis don't care about getting to school on time hmm

ladyWordy Tue 31-Jul-12 16:55:42

FussA, interesting what you said about mild ASD, because that's going through my mind too.

I think it's possible to have one or more ASD traits without being full on ASD as well, though the professionals seem to prefer either/or diagnoses.

You can't make a diagnosis from a forum post and no-one would seriously try - but a little boy who seems to be a control freak with social skills problems is not necessarily, solely, reacting to home life. It's a question of how the control thing comes out, and the social skills.

For ASD I'd expect to see a little obsessiveness about order and how things are done, and temper if it doesn't happen as predicted. Social skills – things like not realising what is appropriate in certain situations, or not having much empathy with others.

For the little girl, I've seen a pattern like this –demanding at home, quite controlling, but hard-working at school and (this is key) very keen to look good in public. Only an observation though.

With the DH…something out of the ordinary there. He's acting more like one of your children, OP, than a partner.

With the bath/washing basket incident, instead of joining you in (preferably gently) disciplining your child, he calls you a filthy name in front of her and throws a tantrum. Says you ruined his day by missing the awards ceremony? Now I'm presuming he didn't say 'Darling, I DO want to see the awards ceremony, let's go back' but assumed you would remember? Then got upset because you didn't?

This isn't really normal behaviour for an adult man. Even if you heard and dismissed him (and you didn't, apparently), a typical adult man would, frankly, remind you and assert himself calmly at the time.

Similarly the water incident – a good parent would say 'that was rude, I don't want to hear that again' and offer a consequence if appropriate. And both parents would agree on that. Water in the face?? That's a child having a tantrum again - and abusive. A very unhealthy parenting environment for real children.

It's rather worrying that he doesn't take responsibility for his anger either.

For you brake, nothing to add here except that I recognise the 'I don't do lego' thing from my own childhood. It was not a problem. The overall experience is what matters.

Sorry that was long, and I am not contradicting what others have said, but trying to offer a few other thoughts.

vezzie Tue 31-Jul-12 16:55:58

The thing that really stands out from FussArse's story is the bit about addressing her needs. There are 4 people in the family who are not having their needs met:

adults getting loving support from each other to meet the children's needs;
children needing a calm and respectful environment

But there are other red herring "needs" too that can be discounted (for now), like the H feeling that he needs to see the awards ceremony (sorry, adults don't get to set the attention spans of children on days out) and needs his second child not to exist (too late, buddy).

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 16:57:28

you can't male your 'dh' better. Only he can do that; but if he doesn't admit he has a problem and won't go to counselling, he ain't going to

How he behaves is his responsibility
How you behave is yours
How your kids behave is a direct reflection of your marriage

If I were you I would seperate from him. It's easy to say, once you are out the other end smile

Callisto Tue 31-Jul-12 17:00:51

Perhaps you might find it useful to remember how you feel when someone yells at you, then times that by 100 and you may get an idea of how your children feel (and they love you and can't leave). Or you could ask them how they feel when you yell and shout at them, or ask them to draw a picture of you shouting. All of these things will help you to see how awful life must be for them. Though TBH it doesn't sound as though you or your husband like your children very much and I think that is the main problem.

vezzie Tue 31-Jul-12 17:01:57

braketime knows shouting is not good!


I agree with your thread title.

Please try to stop yelling. it is one of the things that DH tends to do that shreds my nerves, makes the kids stressy and miserable and doesn't actually help the situation in most cases. Yes, I will confess there are times (such as school run) when there are time pressures when I shout - but IME it doesn't help and it makes me feel better very briefly.

LadyInDisguise Tue 31-Jul-12 17:08:35

braketime I would like to come back to your original question (rather than coming you judge your parenting methods).

You asked Should I just bite my tongue and get on with life? Your OP is also full of self blame (I shouldn't be shouting so much), that so many posters have happily jumped on.

I have to say, NO you should not bite your tongue and accept the situation as it is.
NO you should not accept full responsibility of the issues with both dcs because they are BOTH your responsibility.
NO the reason you have so many problems in your relationship isn't only because you are shouting and nothing else.
NO you have not ruined your DH life by having another child (I am sure he had agreed to it?)
And NO you have not ruined his day but asking to go to the park before the end. It seems to me that you took the dcs needs into account at that time and proposed a solution to the problem (I personally wouldn't have taken my 2 dcs to the Olympics. They wouldn't have been able to stay still for so long). But he could have proposed another solution, reminded you he wanted to stay, it was important for him.

For your marriage to carry on, you will need both to do some work. Learn to communicate better, look at responsibilities within the family unit, acceptable behaviours etc... (I am not even going into the childcare issue here). You also both need to take a bit of distance and learn to relax a bit. Family life and dcs seem to have put a lot of strain on both of you.
Counselling (on your own or as a couple), anger management can be some solutions.
You could also try and see if you could have a bit of time of (on your own) to recharge your batteries and try to have a clearer head.
Some people have suggested parenting course to ease the issue of the dcs. I am guessing that this isn't the only issue you have so it might help (and might be good for the dcs) but I don't think it would solve your relationship issue.

But you will have to do something as staying in this situation will not be healthy neither for the dcs, nor for yurself.

fussarse - "I grew up in a family where there was lots of yelling. It was learned behaviour for me."

Ditto with DH. My family were not shouters, hence every time he bellows my shoulder tense up and my stress levels increase. I really wouldn't think I am overstating it to say that his behaviour contributed to my anxiety and depression. It isn't normal, it isn't a sensible response to anything but the most serious situations. He and I are working on it currently and I am trying to persuade him to see a therapist too - shouting is just one of the bits of baggage his parents dumped on him.

And what lady said too. Your shouting is only one issue. it just happens to be that resonates with me.

LadyInDisguise Tue 31-Jul-12 17:12:30

Callisto, it doesn't sound you like your children very much sad What an awful thing to say sad

I hear someone who is at the end of her tether and is struggling with her parenting and her relationship. I hear someone who needs help. I am struggling to see how that sort of comment is going to help the OP.

Callisto Tue 31-Jul-12 17:20:23

Lady - it may be awful, but that is what is coming across from all of the OP's posts. She doesn't seem that bothered tbh.

ArtVandelay Tue 31-Jul-12 17:21:22

What stands out to me is that you said that your parents ignored you all the time. (Amateur Psychology disclaimer) That says to me that your needs, your inner child, is still protesting and angry. It also suggests that you haven't experienced how selfless one has to be as a parent and therefore you don't do lego, get annoyed, shout etc. I have no advice as to what you should do with your husband however I strongly recommend that you undertake some counselling to make yourself feel better and heal your issues.

I always remember, every time I want to strangle my child, that I'm building a person and that I have to put all the right bits in and treat it right so that it works properly. That sounds cold but I hope you know what I mean!

There's loads of books about the importance of raising children in an emotionally intelligent and kind way and give practical tips. For instance when you say you don't like to play cards because it makes your DD cry... well, some therapists/authors would advise that means you actually do need to play cards so that she can learn to handle those feelings with someone she loves (you) and overcome the crying.

I'm not a perfect parent but I hope that these few things that I try to remember can help you. I feel like you need some understanding too though, it sounds like you are not enjoying life as it is.

MardyArsedMidlander Tue 31-Jul-12 17:26:30

Living in a constantly stressful environment raises children's cortisol levels- that is their stress hormone. Having this at a constant raised level can lead to behavioural difficulties.
My parents yelled at each other all the time, and were always blowing up at the slightest provocation. Like the OP's son, it made me obsessed with order and getting my own way, and also found it difficult to concetrate. I preferred to be in my own world as home life was so scary.
Interesting how she says 'she JUST can't control shouting at her kids and how her son IS trouble. These things don't come from nowehere!

ArtVandelay Tue 31-Jul-12 17:41:47

Mardy thats so true. Also behaviours, thoughts and emotions 'burn' paths into brains so if the overriding experiences are negative, then the brain becomes hard-wired into negative behaviours, thoughts and emotions. This is what I mean when I say raising children is 'building a person'.

Do you want children to become negative, fearful and depressed adults? Then feed them with silly, joyful, kindnesses and stability and they are (although its not guarenteed) more likely to become resilient, kind, happy adults.

camdancer Tue 31-Jul-12 17:42:09

I'm a yeller. I HATE it so much that I'm having therapy to sort it out. It is helping. But I also found this book (When your kids push buttons) was good. It helped me to see some of my trigger points and try to defuse them before I started shouting.

Please start getting down on the floor and playing games with your children. Some of the best conversations I've had with my DS have been when we've been sitting down building Lego. It doesn't have to be Lego, but please try to meet your children where they are rather than expecting them to come to you.

AgathaFusty Tue 31-Jul-12 17:50:53

Jigsaws are good for all ages too. My family laugh when I get one out, but gather round the table PDQ to have a go themselves. When we used to go on holiday with them when they were kids, I always used to take one with me.

Wild times eh grin

TheCrackFox Tue 31-Jul-12 18:18:50

Do you still actually love your DH? Perhaps the relationship has truly run it's course which is sad and scarey for you but often children's behaviour improves once a very unhappy couple separate.

If you feel your relationship is salvageable then it might be worth seeing your GP about your family situation as they can often organise free parenting classes. Good parenting classes should help you to deal with your yelling and your DHs anger issues. If you can both learn to control your tempers, work as a team and generally provide a nicer atmosphere for your children to grow up in you will see your children become much more pleasant to be around. Much of their behaviour is learned behaviour.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 18:19:55

Ladyindisguise, your post made me cry. Callisto bug off, I have come on here for advice not an excuse for holier than thou parents to wring their hands and feel good about how perfect they are. I do know I need to control the shouting and it is not good. I don't pretend it is.

But today I pick up DS and DD from holiday camp. DD has had a great time, made loads of friends, made lots of stuff. dS is in trouble because he has poked children, called them names and hit a boy. I tell him calmly I am very disappointed and he cries and stomps all the way home. Luckily this is for three days only.

Ladywordy - I'd be interested to hear more, as you seem to have both my DCs spot on!

Will post on DH later.

FussArse Tue 31-Jul-12 18:44:20

MrsBabookaloo I'm not sure what 'brand' of counselling it was. The therapist had qualifications in many areas. I do remember asking about Attachment Theory. The my DH and I filled in extensive questionnaires at home that indicated to her what our various schemas were. We spent lots of time working through the ones that troubled us and how that trouble manifested itself. Often with me it was expressed anger but with DH it was repressed anger. From our children's point of view, his simmering narkiness was as difficult to deal with and they thought he was the more 'cross' of the 2 of us.

Sorry - danger of hijacking.

OP can I just ask whether your son is a very good reader with unexpectedly poor spelling? Does he find it unusually difficult to organise himself? What are his interests and do things usually have to be done on his terms? Also, how is he with sensory stuff eg loud noises/food texture/the feel of clothing etc. Please tell me to mind my own business if you are uncomfortable with these questions.

JustFabulous Tue 31-Jul-12 18:57:08

OP, I posted a reply but have deleted it as I know I will get roasted.

Speak to your DH. Ask him if he wants to try and work towards you all staying together in a calm and happy house or does he really want to split up. Then on you go once you know what you are working towards.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 20:16:27

fussArse, DS is normally described as very intelligent, good reader, a bit clumsy but not unusually so, horribly disorganised. Will put nose in book and stay there forever if possible. When not reading, normally causing havoc. I know some of th issues today will be because the others shut him out (kids know that DS is weird and normally instantly dislike him) and for some reason he thinks annoying them will make it better. So he will poke and annoy hm which makes it worse.

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 20:18:20

Also I am really interested in the counselling, thanks for this and for being so open. Off to do bed time stuff

mrsbabookaloo Tue 31-Jul-12 21:06:00

FussArse, thanks. Sorry to continue thread hijack, but it might be relevant to OP: was it relate, or did you find your counsellor some other way?

OP, I hope you can take sthg from the helpful comments here. I'm sure that a few simple steps could start to turn things around.

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 21:50:21

Sorry to hijack again - but a lot of stuff on this thread spoke to me because DP and I haven't always been pulling together well recently and I have a temper. I have never shouted at the kids but I'm afraid I have shouted at him sometimes. I know it's not good and I hate it but I don't know what to do.

I want to hear what you think about whether he is being unfair or not, not about that he hates my shouting which I understand now is completely out of order (although I grew up with it), but about when I can't hide that I am angry or upset, but not shouting. Tonight I was hungry and sad and tired because there was nothing for me to eat (I had ordered a delivery for the morning and he had put everything in the freezer. I had been out at work all day so it was all frozen solid. And I was starving)
It was a mistake but I think a silly mistake because why couldn't he put something aside for me in the fridge? (none of it needed to go in the freezer)
I couldn't even look in the freezer because it was in the very top shelf and I couldn't get a chair to stand on because he was standing in the door way hectoring me to say it was ok, really having a go about the fact that I wasn't smiling and saying "tra la la I don't need meals anyway". I should have done, maybe, he works hard with the kids all day and it was a tiny tiny mistake. but I was too hungry and upset to do that and was obviously upset. Not shouting. talking quietly but not happily. Anyway he was so obstructive and annoying and I was so hungry I just walked out. Just back in now. no one to be seen. I'm all alone and lonely again.

Do I have to carry the can for this too? It was temper but not shouting. It was being unable to control my feelings but not shouting or swearing or saying mean things like "how stupid". When is ok just to have feelings?

sorry to hijack but I know nothing about what is ok or not.

And don't tell me to snack on the train because I am the size of a house and just need to eat proper meals and nothing in between if I am ever to lose weight

sorry to go on please just ignore if very bad form

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:08:12

sorry it's me again, please is anyone there?
I tried to talk to dp to patch things up because I knew I will be crying at work all day otherwise
he is very angry with me and says he is angry because I was being angry and cross which is unfair and he pushed me physically out of the room
as soon as I bounced out onto the landing I just wanted to cut myself I am so fucked up why do I want to attack myself because I have been attacked?
don't know what to do, don't want to break up, don't want to lose the kids, don't want to live like this, don't want to spend all my time at work crying, but don't know what to do
please is anyone there?

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 22:08:15

What did your husband and kids eat lost?

It might be wise to start a seperate thread?

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 22:11:32

I'm not very good at wise advice lost but ill sit with you and wait for better people to come along.....

Do you harm yourself?

Is you husband like this always?

It's not ok, that he pushed you sad

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:12:39

yes probably
they eat before I get home. dp is sahd, I work. I get very hungry because I get home, it's kids' bathtime, we do that together, I help clear everything up and then I can cook something.
yes probably need another thread, sorry

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:13:34

I haven't cut myself for a long time. I won't it was just the impulse that came to me when I felt so angry and sad that I had been pushed

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 22:13:46

It's always ok to have feelings

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:14:12

don't worry it doesn't matter not my thread

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:15:11

I think I need to phone someone I wish I had someone to phone

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 22:15:14

Why doesn't he save you something, of what him and kids have had?

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:16:19

sorry not my thread this is someone else's thread about something a bit more important than my dinner

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 22:16:28

What about Women's Aid or the Samaritans?

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:17:22

I am sick of all this I am such a stupid bitch

lost I'm so sorry... try calling Samaritans:

You are NOT a stupid bitch, you just need some help... we all do sometimes. Please call Samaritans, they will listen to anything you have to say.

Do start your own thread too, there are lots of people here to help.

baskingseals Tue 31-Jul-12 22:21:05

lost it does matter. can you phone for a takeaway?

life can be overwhelming for all of us at times. can you do something nice for yourself right now?

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:21:28

I just wanted to talk so we would feel better but he was so angry and he pushed me and now I feel absolutely violently self hating, why did I end up in this situation, why am I such a stupid bitch, what am I doing to do.

CinnabarRed Tue 31-Jul-12 22:24:26

Of course you matter. But do start a new thread because then you'll get advice specifically tailored to your situation.

FWIW, it's always OK to have feelings and it's never OK for him to push you.

From what you've written it sounds like you handled the food-in-freezer thing OK. I'm not all that clear on why you couldn't defrost something in the microwave, but that's not what your post is about. Equally, I'm a bit shocked that if he's cooked for the rest of the family that he doesn't routinely set a portion aside for you. That would be the obvious longer term solution.

When you start you new thread, it would be helpful if you describe s bit more background to your relationship, rather than one illuminating snapshot.

baskingseals Tue 31-Jul-12 22:24:59

it's alright. hold my hand. please don't hate yourself. you are just doing your best. it will be alright. don't blame yourself, it doesn't help anything.

i am here. and have been where you are. most of us have lost.

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 22:26:17

Please eat might feel a little better for it, if you are really hungry

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:26:27

Thanks. I went out to get some food, I don't need to eat now, that is partly why he is angry (because I went out without saying where I was going - only for 40 minutes)

Thanks everyone, it really helps to talk
I shouldn't be all over this thread but it really spoke to me for lots of reasons, there were lots of interesting things up thread and I got upset and carried away

I think I am messed up and should never have got into a relationship that led to kids
I am 40 now and am messed up the same way I was when I was 22. I should have had therapy then before I went near a long term relationship
now it's all going to shit.

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 22:29:50

Don't feel can't live with someone who pushes you around though

baskingseals Tue 31-Jul-12 22:30:14

are your dc still quite small?

one of the many gems that i read on mumsnet was that nobody should get divorced if they have any children under the age of 5. don't underestimate the immense pressure young children put on any couple.

be as kind as you can to yourself. x

baskingseals Tue 31-Jul-12 22:32:35

fwiw i have learnt more about myself in the last 5 years than in the other 39 years of my life.

don't play the shoulda woulda coulda game. it just makes you feel even worse.

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:34:48

icecold, I have to if h has decided to be someone who pushes me around. how can I make him into someone who does not push me around?
I can't leave because he is not working and I am fucked if I am working to give him money to look after my kids (they are his kids too but I am not leaving them, no way)
My salary would not support two households anyway. the kids are 1 and 3 so childcare is expensive, which is why dp is at home.

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:36:05

baskingseals, so right about the shoulda stuff, so right, I hardly ever go there, part of just having a little flip out right now, all the stuff that is no good is flooding through my head, need to get it under control

braketime Tue 31-Jul-12 22:38:18

Um lost maybe you could ask Mumsnet to take your posts and put them in a different thread? not sure you want to join on this thread as you sound in a different place - your DH definitely is an arse but you don't sound like a shrew to me and therefore should not join in the self flagellation here (or a least what some posters would like to inflict on me).

icecold Tue 31-Jul-12 22:40:17

Do you want to leave him?

baskingseals Tue 31-Jul-12 22:49:23

brake I am on your side, and hope you are okay. fwiw he sounds like an arse to me, but you ain't no shrew.

lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:51:09
lostconfusedwhatnext Tue 31-Jul-12 22:52:53

braketime, actually I think some of the stuff you were getting on this thread was unfair and "shrew" does you a disservice. I'm on another thread now with my stuff but I wish you all the best. Sorry to clutter up your thread.

Whenthetoadcamehome Tue 31-Jul-12 22:59:53

Braketime. I am a yeller too. Or often a sharp talker which can be as hard for a dc to take i think. I have a short fuse and I try so hard not to snap at the kids but usually fail at least once a day when they are winding each other up. Poor DD is usually the one I shout at as she is the eldest and so I expect her to be the least confrontational but she winds her brother up no end. it is something I feel daily guilt about.

Two things I have tried recently which seem to be helping. The first is when I feel myself getting cross I try and imagine that everyone I know can see me and judge my actions at that moment. So I try to act accordingly, instead of shouting I take deep breaths, calm myself down, go to a different room and scream into a pillow if necessary. It doesn't always work, but in a day it can reduce the times I yell or get cross and I guess in time will help me really get those instances down to a very low level.

If that fails, and I end up yelling, and I know I have been unfair I will go and see DD and apologise, and explain that it is not her fault, that although her actions were wrong the correct response from me should have been to reason with her and that I am sorry I yelled. My parents were yellers and never ever said sorry or admitted they were wrong and in doing so i hope to f my kids up less. I do however only do this if I feel my yelling IS unreasonable.

I think most parents yell and on some occasions I do actually feel this is a valid response as long as it is brief and you forgive and reconcile as soon as your dc has said sorry or amended their behaviour. (Ie if you have tried to patiently state expected behaviour or remind a child of what is is/not allowed on several occasions and have been ignored and that behaviour is violent, dangerous or mean/disrespectful towards others.)

Well done for having the self awareness to realise this situation is untenable for you and your family, for being honest on here and with yourself, it's not easy and as you have seen you will get a lot of flack, but I hope the more constructive comments genuinely help you through this.

Agree that it is important to say sorry when you fo react by shouting. When I've been depressed I tend to react to the dc in a more volatile way but would always apologise when I did. DH tended to assume he was always right even he behaved badly.

Good luck braketime x

LadyInDisguise Wed 01-Aug-12 07:25:20

braketime how much self confidence do you have? Because self flagellation and self blame aren't going to get you anywhere.

perhaps that's where individual counselling could help.

Also, I have been wondering what has caused what. A lot of posters have been saying that your (you and your DH) attitude & behaviours have caused your dcs reactions & behaviours.
Someone has mentioned ASD (I have to say, I had thought about it too) and i am wondering if it couldn't also be that it's your dcs behaviour that has stretched you out so much that you can't cope anymore.
Or it can be a combination of both.

What about going and see the GP and ask for a referral re your ds to a development paed and see what they say.
And also you both go to see the GP and ask for counselling, check for possible depression etc...

diddl Wed 01-Aug-12 09:04:28

There seems to be a lack of communication, that´s for sure.

If he wanted to stay-why didn´t he say so?

He´s only got himself to blame for that.

Did he think that you wouldn´t listen?

braketime Wed 01-Aug-12 09:58:58

thank you everyone (well maybe not everyone). Yesterday made an effort. DH very angry about DS's behaviour at holiday camp, said he wanted to have a strategy. I said let's talk about how we communicate and DH stormed off, said I was changing the topic and he only wanted to talk about DS and DD, not us. I could have snapped back and had a big angry exchange which would have degenerated into a name calling session and how I'd ruined his life.

Instead I said ok, what is your strategy (which seems to be lots of time out and removal of all electronic devices). Not my strategy but I make soothing agreeable noises.

DH then seemed calm enough so could then say, I think we need to talk about how we communicate with each other, would we consider counselling. He says no, we've spent too much on DS and got nowhere. I then say I hate the way we yell at each other all the time and we need to improve because it is bad for the kids. We then have a reasonably civilised conversation which is not perfect but better. I say I don't want to make him angry and I don't mean to ignore him, and he should just say what he wants and I wouldn't be cross.

So some improvement. DS still trouble and our holiday could be hell, but at least I've got the impetus to try to make an effort. This thread has been hugely helpful in highlighting how abnormal our behaviour is at present and how it needs to improve.

Will report back at some stage (maybe i need an anger management support thread for all us shouters).

2fedup Wed 01-Aug-12 10:04:12

Well done, the first step is always the hardest and it sounds like you handled it well.

Themumsnot Wed 01-Aug-12 10:12:17

Well done, that sounds really positive, and good on you for staying calm and persisting.

Well done brake. It's hard being the one to make the first move especially if you feel like you are doing it one your own. Perhaps DH will respond more as time goes by and your strategy begins to work.

FussArse Wed 01-Aug-12 10:13:44

Brake from how you've described your son, try googling asperger traits. He may not tick every box, so to speak, but you may see a lot of things that apply to your son.
The reason I think it's worth pursuing is because his behaviour may be because he 'can't' rather than he 'won't'. Also, if it happens that he is on the spectrum,, there are good ways of helping him to learn to cope. ASD kids are often sitting on sky high anxiety levels too.

MrsB I looked at the Counselling Directory website and chose a therapist with a degree is psychology and lots of other qualifications and experience. She works for the NHS during the day and GPs can refer to her. She is an Integrated Therapist and gave a hugely detailed 'CV'. Expensive but cheaper than a divorce and every penny has been well spent.

FussArse Wed 01-Aug-12 10:16:35

Also well done re last night = xpost

Themumsnot Wed 01-Aug-12 10:26:08

I also wanted to say I found this book very useful a couple of years ago when my kids were constantly at each other's throats. It helped me to switch my parenting style around so it was much more positive and my children responded much better. Not that I am always good at the positive stuff, but I have noticed if there is an issue and I make a conscious effort to remember to apply the positive approach it does work. (And then I go back to being naggy mummy again. blush ) Have a look and see what you think.

mrsbabookaloo Wed 01-Aug-12 11:42:59

FussArse: thanks.

And braketime, thanks to you too: this thread has given me a lot of food for thought.

Really hope things start to improve at your house.

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