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Not an elephant in sight!

(994 Posts)
skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 12:35:53

Well this is my new thread, had my first counselling session today which was very difficult . The old thread is nearly full so thought I would start afresh . Don't know how to link so if anyone wants to add the old thread feel free.

midwife99 Fri 15-Jun-12 12:59:46

How did it go?

izzyizin Fri 15-Jun-12 13:08:40

Optimistic title but if you're not willing to follow the advice you've been given to stop playing silly buggers with your h, the ow, and Uncle Tom Cobley & Co, skye, you'll only need a mirror to reveal the new elephant in the room.

Here's the longest of your old threads:

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 13:12:06

It was really difficult. She was trying to get me to see things from his point of view which I found a but odd, she also said that I was rushing into divorce and that I should put it on hold, that he has just shut down for now but I said no, he is adamant he doesnt love me any more and that it's over and i can't keep going through this, that I'm taking back the control.

I told her about all the texting and emailing and the way they chatted and she said that they have connected on an intimate level in their heads. She said that my H could easily be infatuated and come crashing down to earth at some point.

She gave me some stuff to think about and shrubs going to go away and process everything and decide where we go next to address my behaviour and how I can deal with things going forward

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 13:12:33

She's not shrubs!! Lol

mistlethrush Fri 15-Jun-12 13:15:18

Oh dear, poor DH, isn't it awful that he's infatuated and might find out that he's chasing something that's not actually real!

<sarcasm off>

What on earth did she think that you should do? Wait around for him to come back to you with his tail between his legs? Then try to play happy families again until he does it again?

I'm glad it was helpful, Skye - keep on thinking, and yes, use it to gather strength to go forward.

KirstyWirsty Fri 15-Jun-12 13:18:08

Just marking my place here Skye - you sound like you are moving forward in a positive way smile

izzyizin Fri 15-Jun-12 13:23:22

decide where we go next to address my behaviour

What aspects of your behaviour need addressing?

Dozer Fri 15-Jun-12 13:34:24

Sorry it was stressful.

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 13:54:13

I think by my behaviour she means why he reacted to what I did or said, so I can stop blaming myself for everything or accept if I could have handled things differently.

I did think it a bit odd as I felt under attack because i said he walked out when I didn't want him to go to a football match, so she was saying how would that make him feel.... I said that my hair appointment had been booked for weeks and booked so that my H was there to take care if daughter. So of course I was annoyed that he was now not going to be around. But apparently I would have made him feel bad that I was stopping him doing something that I wanted to.. It's all about the fact that he said I was controlling but like she said it sounds like he needed someody to organise him but at some point he started to resent it.

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 14:54:17

I'm on a real downer again now, te counselling has brought everything to the front again and made me feel really sad that my H is gone , but even saying that i still dont feel that I want him back, which is good.

It's just reminded me how helpless I felt about him walking out and how confusing it is as to why etc.

I cried for about an hour solid I think! I feel drained and tired now.

sternface Fri 15-Jun-12 15:03:35

Sorry but I really don't like the sound of this counsellor, who sounds like she's of the handmaiden variety who thinks that if a man behaves badly, there's a woman to blame for it somewhere.

If you get any of this nonsense again I'd find someone else and quickly.

oldwomaninashoe Fri 15-Jun-12 15:04:00

Skye just be aware that couselling will bring all sorts of emotions to the surface and you might momentarily feel worse.

I guess from your above post you are wondering how much to blame were you with regards to the breakdown. Please don't beat yourself up over this, what's done is done now, hopefully your sessions will be less painful in the future.
Chin up, you are doing well in the circs.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 15-Jun-12 16:21:52

I would be a bit wary of this counsellor - esp if she made you feel under attack. Counselling is supposed to make you feel safe enough to open up.

Counsellors are supposed to provide a listening ear and ask gently probing questions to make you think. She shouldn't give opinions e.g saying that you are rushing into a divorce.

Where did you find her and are her qualifications?

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 15-Jun-12 16:21:59


tribpot Fri 15-Jun-12 16:27:27

I think challenging someone to see another's point of view is a perfectly valid thing to do within the context of a trusted counselling relationship, but this strikes me as a very odd thing to have done in your first session. Shouldn't she have been trying to build a rapport with you so you felt supported by her? Counsellor as critical friend seems like a good place to get to, but she needs to establish the friend part first.

Proudnscary Fri 15-Jun-12 16:30:26

Was just going to say exactly what Tribot said. I am very suprised she asked you this question in the first session. Also, particularly as you were so tearful and upset, I would have thought her job in the first session would be 99% about listening and hearing you (as well as getting to grips with your 'story' as she will need to familarise herself with it).

Hi by the way, not been on MN a lot lately - I know my last posts were harsh. I stand by them but hope you are ok and still think you are getting on very well.

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 17:33:16

The coun selling is through the Childrens Centre, she said that she has just finished her diploma - that's how it's free through Action For Children. She has 100 hours of experience but needs more so they build it up this way so she is qualified but not that experienced... She was about ten years older than me and also had a child when she was in her thirties.

I did like her as a person but I did feel she was a bit judgemental a out the divorce. I told her that H is adamant he doesn't love me. , she said he has shut off and put his feelings in a box and needs time. I said i have been there donethat and now he is cold and horrible to me and that i cant go on like it. I have accepted what he is saying and divorcing him as I don't want to stay married to him.

Maybe she will be different when she has had time to go away and absorb my problems... she said I was carrying a lot of baggage and thinking that I'm a horrible person because of his letter so her job is to get me through those feelings and out the other side feeling better about myself.

Bunnyjo Fri 15-Jun-12 17:40:07

I am going to echo tribpot on this too. Encouraging you to see things from your H's viewpoint is valid, but I certainly wouldn't expect that on a first session - the trust has yet to be established between you and her. I would have expected the first session to be about you both establishing a relationship, whereby you trust her, and also getting the bones of what happened. Subsequent sessions should be about getting to the meat of everything and exploring the tougher and more challenging aspects.

Hope you're OK?

AnyFucker Fri 15-Jun-12 17:41:00

your counsellor doesn't appear to understand the basic premise of what your H has done

she is trying to say he has recently put his feelings in a box and detached from you

the true fect is, he did that yonks ago, which I detailed on your last thread and is several pages ahead of you

your counsellor should understand that, and help you process it

having said that, it's probably not helpful for me (or anyone else) to pick apart what she says negatively, this is your lifeline so stick with it and after a few more sessions I am sure you will start to see it is helpful

and if it isn't, you are not obliged to continue

but give it several more sessions before you make a judgement about that

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 17:48:22

She did say that we start off in the next session talking about my childhood and then about now but she asked for the story of the marriage breakup, so out it all came warts and all. I think i confused the hell out of her! Jumping from one bit to another as I rambled through my story.

I said to her it has been four months since he left the first time and he wasn't really there when he came back as he was obsessing with OW texts all day every day by then so I really feel now like he left at the end of Feb although it has only been a month since the letter. I'm all confused with a banging headache..

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 17:54:18

Thanks af I think you are right. She just didn't seem to get the point that it's over! I think because in her words it's early days she seems to think its fixable but she doesn't know him whereas I know he means it she doesn't.

And the divorce is my decision, but i did respect what she was saying from the point of view of why put myself through it if I'm not strong enough, why not sort myself out then get divorced but I said i need to do it now not heal then open it all up again in a years time or whenever. Plus I told her about the debt history etc and said financially I need him off deeds etc.

MidnightsChild Fri 15-Jun-12 18:59:38

skye if you feel that your counsellor hasn't understood the situation, my advice would be to prepare a simple and clear statement with which to start the next session. If it would be too difficult to speak it out loud, why not write it down and ask here to read it from start to finish before discussing any of it with you. Perhaps the process of writing it down would help you to decide on some initial goals for the counselling.

Remember, counsellors are human just like anyone else and they are capable of getting the wrong end of the stick too. They may be reasons why she has misunderstood, but those can be discussed at a later stage if you feel it would be helpful. The important thing is to get your counselling back on track.

I'm a trainee counsellor btw and I'd really prefer my client to tell me if I was on the wrong track, so don't worry about hurting her feelings. Honestly ...

stuffitunderthebed Fri 15-Jun-12 19:09:28

With counselling you will feel much worse before you feel better! Stick with it skye. You've come a long long way and should feel proud of yourself. Well done

doggiemumma Fri 15-Jun-12 19:19:00

The thing is, you so want to believe that your DH will come back that it may well have influenced how you described things to your counsellor. When i had counselling before if i ever spoke about DP, she would always turn it around to ME and i would be angry and think "but he is being a twunt, he has made me angry because" but He wasn't there and whilst alot of what my counsellor said to me was difficult to swallow, she did make alot of sense. It certainly shouldnt feel like you are to blame for he break up though.

Stick with it, but if you think she is wrong say so - you do not have to take everything your counsellor says as read, you HAVE to question it, that way it wont be a two way thing.

You seem alot more rational and calm now though, that is good.

Proudnscary Fri 15-Jun-12 19:24:10

I second just being honest with her. This is both a professional and intimate relationship, a two way street. I would personally not prepare a statement (though not a bad thought), I'd say something really truthful like 'I was taken aback by you asking me to see it from his point of view and question me on issuing divorce proceedings, I felt a little blamed and unheard and misunderstood'.

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 20:50:45

Yes, I did make it plain to her that it was over, no chance of reconciliation, but she feels that I'm being too hasty which tbh some if my friends have also said that. But even if he changed his mind there is still the betrayal which in my mind now is the biggest problem, the deceit of hiding his contact with her. So it is my decision now that it is over, not just his iykwim .

Just had to text H as the son of a man who works for him has just been found dead in his flat. 21 years old. :-( makes you think, life is really too short for all this crap....

PooPooInMyToes Fri 15-Jun-12 20:55:13

Shit that's awful! The poor dad! sad

izzyizin Fri 15-Jun-12 21:36:42

Why did you have to text your h with this sad news?

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 22:11:25

Because the lads father works for my H so I felt it was only fair to tell him the news so he is prepared if the father rings him. I kept it to the point nothing else and have not replied to his response.

izzyizin Fri 15-Jun-12 22:29:20

Why did you feel the need to 'prepare' him?

Surely it would have been more appropriate for your h to hear direct from his employee so that he could give his spontaneous regrets - although that, of course, begs the question of how you came to hear of his son's death it before your h did?

I'd far rather hear bad news of this kind straight from the horse's mouth; if I were to hear it second hand I feel there'd be a danger of my natural response to the bereaved person being impeded or otherwise interfered with.

TupperwareTwat Fri 15-Jun-12 22:45:58

I think you did the right thing Skye, texting the bad news as soon as you heard it. Puts things in to perspective doesn't it? Poor, poor boy sad

skyebluesapphire Fri 15-Jun-12 22:58:10

I heard because he is the brother of a friend of mine, plus it's plastered all over the dreaded Facebook. My H is no longer friends with anybody from here on fb so would not have seen it. I would have appreciated it if he had done that for me if it were reversed. The father is 67 and no doubt devastated as it was his only son that he had late in life.

I know I don't owe H anything but I felt it was the right thing to do to notify him. Like i said I kept it to the point and he text back what a shock, I appreciate you letting me know. And that was that.

No further communication required.

Anniegetyourgun Fri 15-Jun-12 23:42:03

Don't like sound of your counsellor. Rushing in with opinions in first session when she should have just been gathering information. Actually, rushing in with opinions at all...

<polishes gun thoughtfully>

fridakahlo Sat 16-Jun-12 00:20:09

Skye, have been lurking on your past two threads and just felt I had to say that your counsellor questioning your judgment on your first meeting does not sit well with me.
Whether to get divorced or not is your decision and yours alone. You have many valid reasons for doing so. So why is she questioning that?

skyebluesapphire Sat 16-Jun-12 00:27:58

She seemed rattled when i said it was the only option left. She said no it isnt and it's a major decision and what if he changes his mind but I tried to say that he won't and even if he does it's too late now as far as I'm concerned. Maybe she thinks I'm not in my right mind or something!

She said how do you feel about your H now and I said I don't know, I think I hate him :-(

sternface Sat 16-Jun-12 01:17:42

Skye the more you write about this counsellor the less I think she's up to this particular assignment. A referral through a Children's Centre with a newly qualified counsellor who probably hasn't had much experience if any at all of relationships counselling could be like getting a general plumber to undertake a job required by a heating engineer. She sounds like a person-centred counsellor, which is a modality that is unsuited to relationship counselling without further training.

Moreover, she should not be offering opinions, advice or any pronouncements at all and she should certainly not be this challenging of your decisions during the first appointment. I've lurked on your threads very occasionally and FWIW I do think some of your behaviour and decisions needed challenging, but the posters on your threads knew what to challenge (i.e. your initial denial and then the drama fuelling) and what to encourage (going for divorce, creating boundaries in your home, wising up to the reality that this really was an affair) so it's frustrating that someone who is supposed to be a qualified therapist chose to challenge the things you've got right. I'm also very surprised that you know anything about her own personal circumstances because this is another broken boundary in the client-counsellor relationship.

Don't feel you've got to stick with this person. Personally I'd be very honest with her about your misgivings about the session this week and I'd ask a few more questions about her experience in helping clients deal with a marriage breakdown after an affair.

SoSad007 Sat 16-Jun-12 02:15:13

Skye, I have read some of your last thread and this one, and I am also going to echo the others that have said the counsellor you have is not appropriate.

Just went to a book on self-esteem that I've been reading, and it says the goal of this sort of therapy is to:

1) alleviate suffering and,
2) enhance your well being.

If you feel under attack, how is this achieving either of the above? Is it possible to ask for a different counsellor under the same scheme?

At this point, you need someone who can empathise with you, help you see that your feelings are valid, and perhaps provide a few (not many) insights as to your behaviour that are in line with your feelings. You should not feel under attack.

izzyizin Sat 16-Jun-12 03:55:27

O do come ON, people! It's singularly inappropriate to judge the counsellor after one session, let alone judge her without giving her an opportunity to present her account of the proceedings.

Based solely on skye's account, let's take a look at some of the ground which was covered over a period of most probably not more than 50-60 minutes:

I told her about all the texting and emailing and the way they chatted and she said that they have connected on an intimate level in their heads. She said that my H could easily be infatuated and come crashing down to earth at some point

Seems to me she got that right.

I felt under attack because i said he walked out when I didn't want him to go to a football match, so she was saying how would that make him feel.... I said that my hair appointment had been booked for weeks and booked so that my H was there to take care if daughter. So of course I was annoyed that he was now not going to be around. But apparently I would have made him feel bad that I was stopping him doing something that I wanted to.. It's all about the fact that he said I was controlling but like she said it sounds like he needed someody to organise him but at some point he started to resent it

In her own words, skye felt 'under attack' because the counsellor asked her to consider how her h would feel. That is not materially different to the questions that were asked of skye when she first posted on this board.

Over a period of time, it has emerged that skye is not always the laid back que sera sera type she purported to be. She's sometimes come across as controlling and the $64,000 question is 'was skye's organisation of her h tantamount to controlling him?'

Under the circumstances, it's interesting that the counsellor's observation is that 'it sounds like her h needed someody to organise him but at some point he started to resent it'.

I did feel she was a bit judgemental about the divorce. I told her that H is adamant he doesn't love me. , she said he has shut off and put his feelings in a box and needs time. I said i have been there done that and now he is cold and horrible to me and that i cant go on like it. I have accepted what he is saying and divorcing him as I don't want to stay married to him.

And the divorce is my decision, but i did respect what she was saying from the point of view of why put myself through it if I'm not strong enough

It may be that skye perceives those who don't agree with her as being judgemental, but it doesn't appear to me that the counsellor has been at all inappropriate in exploring the speed with which skye has proceeded to file for divorce, the rational that led her to make this decision, and whether she is emotionally strong enough to make a decison of such finality at this point in time.

she said I was carrying a lot of baggage and thinking that I'm a horrible person because of his letter so her job is to get me through those feelings and out the other side feeling better about myself.

Again, the counsellor's got it spot on.

She did say that we start off in the next session talking about my childhood and then about now but she asked for the story of the marriage breakup, so out it all came warts and all. I think i confused the hell out of her! Jumping from one bit to another as I rambled through my story

I daresay the counsellor was quietly contemplating opening the session with a gentle stroll through the childhood history of her new client when skye burst walked through her door.

Anyone who's read skye's previous posts won't be at all surprised if the counsellor was confused by skye's rambling, unconnected, warts and all account of her marriage breakdown complete with cast of a thousand extras the h, the ow, the ow's dh, the mil, the bil, the niece, her dm, df, assorted friends, neighbours, plus the content of texts/emails/letters/face book.

All credit to the woman for having rapidly honed in on the major issues.

She gave me some stuff to think about and she's going to go away and process everything and decide where we go next to address my behaviour and how I can deal with things going forward

Sounds like a plan to me.

IMO the counsellor should be cut a fuck of a lot of slack given credit for her first session with skye and any judgement as to her capability/suitability should be suspended for the next 6.

izzyizin Sat 16-Jun-12 04:19:17

If skye doesn't wish to continue her free sessions, the alternatives are for her to pay for post-relationship counselling with Relate or similar, source and pay a private counsellor/therapist, or ask her GP to refer her for NHS pyschological assessment and appropriate therapy for which there will inevitably be a long waiting list.

skyebluesapphire Sat 16-Jun-12 08:26:56

Izzy, I had to tell her about the Facebook chat, texts and emails as that is a major part now in my decision to divorce. My husband betrayed me with OW on an emotional level and the counsellor agreed that. and i didn't discover this until after he had left and it screwed my mind totally as it added a whole new dimension to everything and i trusted him totally and could not believe he would do that to me. The only people I talked about were my H and Ow and her H , nobody else is relevant.

I always asked my husband before I arranged anything and he always said yes. His own brother told him to grow a pair and say no I'd he didn't want to do something. H just said he didn't want to upset me so he always agreed to everything. Then this all gets thrown back in my face that I organised his entire life and made him do things every weekend when he didn't want to. It's very unfair when he agreed to everything I asked or suggested and now he says I walked all over him.

He has totally fucked my head with that nasty letter that he wrote.

Proudnscary Sat 16-Jun-12 08:59:53


You've come in for a lot of criticism on here, so HUGE credit where it's due. You feel, in your bones - despite h, OW, friends and this counsellor saying otherwise - that divorce is the right thing to do.

Personally I really think it is too - because you have the foresight to realise that even if he does do a spectacular U turn because he realises OW is just a fantasy he has hurt you, lied to you and damaged your marriage irrevocably.

I have two friends - both h's had affairs but in different circumstances (one's marriage was on it's knees anyway, the other came as a total shock). Both waited a year/18 months to issue proceedings as it seemed more important to come to terms with the emotional side of things. Both regret that because the whole thing was hanging over them for so long when they could have been free to properly move on. Also - and crucially - they felt they could have ended up financially better off if they had gone for it earlier because once the dust settles and the h no longer feels guilty, all their promises about being generous/fair/not wanting the house or whatever, turns to shit.

I understand why you texted h re this man's son. How awful - absolutely awful.

Re your counsellor, yes I am still dubious but do try having an honest talk with her about this and see what comes out of it.


Midwife99 Sat 16-Jun-12 09:10:23

Yes I agree that it's very confusing to OP for the counsellor to say no don't start the divorce in case h changes his mind! I can't understand why she would suggest that!

DoingItForMyself Sat 16-Jun-12 09:27:58

Hi Skye, I have been lurking but not posted before.

Perhaps the counsellor has picked up some of your 'mixed messages' - the type of behaviour that other posters have mentioned, which on the surface seem to aimed at showing H that its over, but actually appear to be cries for help.

I know how confusing it is. My emotionally abusive H is moving out next week and he has been the picture of a perfect dad and husband all week - spending time with the DCs, showing an interest, being supportive of me and opening up to me emotionally. I feel torn inside, wanting to show him that I'm going to be fine and then breaking down because I don't know how I'll manage, but in my head I know the separation is still the right thing for all of us.

But somehow divorce is not the priority. I took off my wedding ring as a 'sign' that its over (after a very bad row) but actually, there's no rush to make it official as that would be a knee-jerk reaction on a scale much larger than taking off the ring and him moving out.

I have no expectation that he will return to the family home (once he has left I know I won't want him to, no matter how nice he is at the moment) but perhaps your counsellor is trying to point out that by going for a quick divorce, its yet another attempt to prove to him how 'over it' you are, when in fact you are so clearly not.

There's no reason why you should be over it - its a massive thing to deal with. But just accept it and deal with that instead of forcing an end to it, in the hope that it might elicit the reaction you crave. It won't love. sad

Midwife99 Sat 16-Jun-12 09:31:06

Very wise post doingit. Yes perhaps counsellor picked up mixed feelings & so pursued that line of uncertainty.

Proudnscary Sat 16-Jun-12 09:36:56

Interesting post Doingit, and I am sure you are right that the counsellor's picked up on Skye's mixed messages.

Re the divorce, I don't agree Skye is doing this for reaction actually. I think she fully appreciates how final and serious divorce is and it pains her greatly - but it needs to be done. I'd give the same advice to you too - get it over with if you are serious about splitting and don't have it hanging over you and potentially have more of a financial fight on your hands.

It's very interesting that Skye's husband is 100% sure he will never go back to her, it's dead. But is 100% sure he doesn't want a divorce. I think this is because he's too busy leading his fabulous new life, he doesn't want to even think about the admin and stress of a divorce. Why should he? It's interfering with his stress free new life. But where would that leave Skye, paralysed and fearful and clinging on to hope that he will return, unable to move on? Of course OW has her own reasons for not wanting them to divorce (and will be influencing h) - namely that she's not sure what she wants yet.

DoingItForMyself Sat 16-Jun-12 09:54:06

I understand what you're saying about having the divorce hanging over her (and me!) Proud - x-posted with your wise words about using the guilt to get the best deal! I do understand how final and serious it is, but I'm not sure that doing it sooner will make it any less painful or easier for myself or for Skye.

Skye, I know you've had longer to deal with your situation, but I'm not sure you're any further down the road of actually accepting it and by the sound of it, neither is your H. He too has been sending you mixed messages and all this game playing has clouded your true feelings. In your head you know this is the best thing for you but I don't think your heart has caught up yet.

Continue with the counselling and if you're not happy with this particular one, try someone else as you need to get to the bottom of who YOU are and what YOU want and at the moment that is so bound up with your Ex you don't appear to know where you fit in the world without it being in relation to him. Even the death of the lad you texted him about, you thought of it in relation to Ex - how would it affect him - when it really isn't anything to do with you and you had no need to think of Ex's feelings about it.

You are your own person and he is his. Find yourself in all of this.

Proudnscary Sat 16-Jun-12 10:11:19

Hope you are ok DoingIt, you have had a long hard journey by the sounds of it and seem to be doing so well. Of course you and Skye are individuals and have to find your way through this.

sternface Sat 16-Jun-12 10:20:46

It is extremely rare for a client whose hurt and shock has been relatively recent to present the story in a logical and coherent fashion. For a counsellor to conclude anything other than there is er....still shock and hurt, is unwise.

As it is to disclose anything about one's personal circumstances, to pronounce that the client was 'rushing into divorce and should put it on hold' and to ask loaded questions that will understandably be perceived by the client as critical of her actions.

And if a counsellor is hypothesising that one of the problems was that Skye's husband may have felt over-organised and controlled, despite this not being a problem voiced by him in all the years before he formed a friendship outside the marriage, it's a strange line of questioning to imply that this was Skye's fault and not a weakness in her husband for failing to articulate this grievance before he met the OW, lying through his teeth about this being an issue in the first place or even more revolutionary, organising himself like a capable adult.

As in RL, there are counsellors who are far more tolerant of men's bad behaviour and believe deep down that women are somehow responsible for it.

I wonder how she would have dealt with a male client whose wife had behaved like Skye's husband - had an affair with her best friend's husband, left her child twice and then complained afterwards that a contributory factor was that her husband moaned when she kept going out instead of contributing to family life to the extent that her husband couldn't even go to the barber's without worrying that there would be no-one able to look after their child.

Do you seriously think this particular counsellor would have asked the devastated husband how his wife might have felt when she couldn't do what she wanted to do?

DoingItForMyself Sat 16-Jun-12 10:41:25

BTW, I missed the elephant - can anyone enlighten me?!

skyebluesapphire Sat 16-Jun-12 11:03:19


skyebluesapphire Sat 16-Jun-12 11:08:41

Lol, my first thread was about trying to reconcile while ignoring the elephant in the room, the second was Sod the elephant looks like its really over, but now there is no elephant at all, lol. All elephants have been seen and firmly removed !

I will see how next weeks session goes, I think I need to back firm that I am divorcing him as its what I want and ask her not to focus on that but on the problems. Maybe I should give her a copy of my H's letter and she will understand what he has done to me. And write it all down so she has a better order of events.

Proudnscary Sat 16-Jun-12 11:36:59

Ok but Skye, she is not a lawyer, a police officer or a teacher! You don't have to spend your precious sessions 'proving' to her why what you are doing is right and providing evidence.

What I meant, I think others mean, is tell her how her questions (asking you how you felt your dh felt in that final argument) made you feel. Tell her it made you feel blamed and judged (if that is how it made you feel).

Yes explain why you want to divorce and yes show her the letter if you want as that will be a place to start discussing your feelings and trying to process and come to terms with them.

skyebluesapphire Sat 16-Jun-12 18:20:20

Yes I need to ask her why she turned it round on me as i feel bad enough already about everything. I know I am a bit of a control freak compared to H in that I like to be organised - to give you an example , if we were going out for lunch on Mothers Day I would book several weeks in advance. One year I left it to H to book, he tried to book somewhere 2 days before and was then horrified that everywhere was fully booked and we couldn't get in anywhere........

If i reminded him to do stuff he got fed up so I stopped reminding him and then it didn't get done, his sisters birthday card not sent, friends not available to visit as he didn't arrange it before we went all the way back to his home town.......

And back to the hair appointment arranged solely for that day because he was going to be home then he changed his plans!

So I don't think I'm controlling, just organised!!

Been to see my grandparents today for the first time since we split. It was difficult because they both thought the world of him and are devastated by what he has done. They are 90 and 87 and don't need the stress of it. I managed to be very positive for them and stress that me and DD are fine and better off without him. They even offered me money to help with the mortgage which brought a tear to my eye as they don't have much..

sternface Sat 16-Jun-12 18:28:22

Meh, the allegations of being 'controlling and organising him' are just smokescreens Skye. Before he had his eye on his friend's wife, he was probably only too happy that he was allowed to get away with being lazy and disorganised - and I wouldn't mind betting, trading on the fact that if some things didn't get done (e.g. birthday cards) you would get some of the blame for that.

It's called 'scraping the barrel' because he couldn't accuse you of the usual old chestnuts like lack of sex, not understanding his hidden depths etc. so he had to find some completely non-existent reason for why he wanted out. Not that having an affair with his friend's wife had any relevance to the situation, of course hmm

Saffysmum Sat 16-Jun-12 22:35:26

I started divorce proceedings against Twunt, within a week of throwing him out. 22 years of marriage that I didn't want to end. But I KNEW that there was no way I would ever have him back; his affair (although at the time vehemently denied) had smashed our marriage to pieces. When I saw my solicitor and asked her to file for divorce, she said that it was very early days. I said that I realised this, but I was adamant. She nodded and said, yes, I think you are. I knew, and she knew.

You don't need a counsellor's permission to divorce; you're a grown up hunni, if it's what you want, you do it: if a thousand counsellors and solicitors had told me I was wrong, I would have ignored them. You know when divorce is the only option, because although it's bloody awful, it's the only option open. If you feel that way, then you're on the way to doing the right thing, and no one will put a doubt in your mind.

nellyfurtado Sat 16-Jun-12 22:36:32

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

skyebluesapphire Sat 16-Jun-12 23:30:25

I am sure now. I no longer feel that I want him back. I know he ended it and I was desperate for him to change his mind but I now feel that I am worth more than that. I no longer trust him and I no longer respect him. He is immature in that he walked rather than try and sort things out and that he has walked away from all responsibilities and left me with the mortgage and bills to pay and a house to maintain all on my own, whilst also running my business!

I am strong and he is weak. I will get through this and be happy. He will probably end up sad and lonely in a flat somewhere with only his immature friends and dysfunctional family for company.

stuffitunderthebed Sat 16-Jun-12 23:34:38

Well said skye! You are strong and he is weak. I love it. Onwards and upwards luv smile

Midwife99 Sun 17-Jun-12 08:13:00

Well done love you sound really strong. Are you beginning to believe that you could be happier in the future than you were with him? smile

Proudnscary Sun 17-Jun-12 08:25:09

Fabulous, well done lady! You are indeed very strong and since you've stopped all the Facebook crap you are even stronger and will gain so much more self respect.

Hope you have a good day - what are you up to? Is dd with exh for Father's day?

<waves at midwife>


skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 08:30:29

Yes H us having DD as usual today. She has made him a card so i didn't have to buy one and I haven't bought him a present. He doesn't deserve one, I am going to my mum and dads for dinner

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 08:39:30

I'm just trying to think of it as any old Sunday. On Fathers Day we always used to go out for a nice car very dinner and then a walk along a beach and just spend a lovely day together. But he has chosen to walk away from these things so I can't waste my energy getting upset about it. DD is spending the day with him so that's the main thing for her not that she understands about fathers day yet

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 17-Jun-12 09:30:06

You do sound stronger smile

Midwife99 Sun 17-Jun-12 09:50:13

[waves at proud]

These "special" days are always hard as a single parent - it kind of emphasises the feeling of being alone but it's great you can go to your parents & have some company.

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 10:24:33

I feel strong but I feel lonely too especially weekend evenings. Once he starts to have her overnight sometimes at least then I will be able to go out even if it's to the neighbours for a bottle of wine.

He needs to hurry up and get his own place do that he can have her overnight and also start to face up to the reality of life on his own with no money left after paying all the bills! He is still in his cost bubble with his friends and has no idea until he gets out there on his own

Somebody said to me yesterday that they reckon he will come crawling back in a few months and I said maybe he will but I won't be around when he does! And I totally mean that now. He has proved himself to be a weak immature person who can't face up to reality and runs away, so we don't need him in our life.

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 10:25:22

COST = cosy!

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 18:38:31

skyebluesapphire Sat 16-Jun-12 23:30:25
I am sure now. I no longer feel that I want him back. I know he ended it and I was desperate for him to change his mind but I now feel that I am worth more than that. I no longer trust him and I no longer respect him. He is immature in that he walked rather than try and sort things out and that he has walked away from all responsibilities and left me with the mortgage and bills to pay and a house to maintain all on my own, whilst also running my business!

I am strong and he is weak. I will get through this and be happy. He will probably end up sad and lonely in a flat somewhere with only his immature friends and dysfunctional family for company.

skye, this is healthy. This is good. This is totally at odds with all your FB kerfuffles/texting and need to still be engaging with him on some level.

stay strong, love

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 20:06:12

He texted me at 7pm to say running late and back at half past. He was late last week too so I texted him back and said Ok but this is the second time you have been late so you can bring her back at 6.30pm from now on as she needs to unwind before bedtime. This is for her benefit as she has preschool in the morning.

He didn't reply...

tribpot Sun 17-Jun-12 20:10:05

I thought you were going to reset expectations on the contact hours, skye? This reads more like you're gradually withdrawing time to punish him.

I assume you didn't discuss this when he brought her back?

izzyizin Sun 17-Jun-12 20:17:38

From what you've said, you put your dd outside the front door when his car rolls up and when he returns her, you close the door in his face as soon as she's inside.

This seems a juvenile 'ya, boo, sucks to you' way of facilitating contact.

Can't you can find it in yourself to engage in a brief but courteous verbal exchange with him for the sake of your dd?

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 20:18:58

he's taking the piss

I don't blame you for re-setting the time he has to bring her back

is he one of those fucking annoying people you have to fudge a half-hour for ?

if you want her back at 7, you have to insist on 6:30 ?

if that is the case, do what you have to do

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 20:20:53

I think those are far too late for a 4yo though, like I said on the other thread

I would go for 10-4, I know you said you are leaving it for mediation, but...

in the meantime, you play his stupid games ?

I wouldn't, and I don't think you should either

I bet he had her home closer to 8 (would bet my best shoes on it)

izzyizin Sun 17-Jun-12 20:25:54

O no, AF <<horror>> Surely not your best Manolos? Even though you're onto a cert grin

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 20:33:09

He did get back just after 7.30. I don't want to cut the hours too much as I will expect him to have her overnight when he has his own place.

I don't want to speak to him at the moment but I am working on it. I said to my friend earlier that I am aiming to speak civilly to him in a couple of weeks. I am trying to work myself up to it. I just can't bring myself to even look at him at the moment. I just want to smack him with his trendy young clothes and stupid grin. He irritates me....

If I am the slightest bit friendly he will think that everything is ok and that we are friends and I don't want that. I am also waiting to see what his reaction is about the divorce petition as if he turns nasty I dont want contact with him.

izzyizin Sun 17-Jun-12 20:40:16

As he's got his feet firmly under the ow's and her mug of an h table, it may be some considerable time before he gets his own place, at which time contact can be reviewed to take account of overnight stays.

In the meantime, put the needs of your dd first. She needs to be home a lot earlier than 7.30pm.

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 20:41:27

izzy, I know this is hard for some to believe, but my "best shoes" are my Birkenstocks

not a Manolo, nor a < them with the red sole, have forgotten the name, see wot I mean?> in sight

I would kill anyone who tried to remove my Birkies from my feet though

tribpot Sun 17-Jun-12 20:41:40

I agree - and anyway, when he does have her overnight you will still want her home at a more reasonable hour on a Sunday, esp when she has school in the morning.

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 20:43:04

7:45 is too late for a 4yo

it just is

everybody knows that

doggiemumma Sun 17-Jun-12 20:43:37

registers my envy for Anyfuckers Birkies - i so want a new pair, the T-bar type, but i am putting of buying a pair because they HURT when you first wear them confused Sorry, as you were

doggiemumma Sun 17-Jun-12 20:45:52

Wow - skye! What a change - you grew a pair!! Well done to you for toughening up to this twunt, i read and commented on your threads with another name, but not a significant poster. So pleased to see you are finally able to be objective and have gotten angry, being angry is good, so long as its not obsessional. You are going to be OK xxxx

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 20:48:45

doggie, they have never hurt me, they feel like butter on my feet immediately smile

are you buying a size too small ?

MsPavlichenko Sun 17-Jun-12 20:49:39

Mainly a lurker, and don't want to depress you, but, it may be wise not to make any assumptions regarding overnight stays. To be honest, he's not shown any great interest so far, and that may not change, even if and when he gets his own place.

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but best to adjust your expectations downwards, and then be surprised than be disappointed by him again.

It won't make any difference to your DD, in the longer term, as she is so young she wont remember anything else.

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 20:51:10

When he has her overnight he can bring her back earlier as he will have had her all day. She starts school in September so I think she will need to be back by 6pm at the latest then. Mr "I hate being organised" will have to organise his bloody day so he can get her back on time! DD asked me if I was angry as Daddy said mummy is cross because we are late! But I sent a perfectly reasonable text to him. Arse.

On the subject of shoes I only ever wear mules trainers or boots.... Have got weak ankles don't wear heels ever :-)

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 20:56:50

I don't wear heels either

bloody awful things smile

izzyizin Sun 17-Jun-12 21:00:41

Laboutin, AF... you could paint the soles of your Birkies red.

My tootsies are currently in luxuriating in the foot heaven of a, coincidentally, bright red Madrid number - I so wish they and I were there.

When buying Birkies the advice always seems to be to size down but as it's common for one foot to be larger than the other, sizing up works for me and they fit like the proverbial glove from the off.

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 21:04:32

I buy the size I am in Birkies

the foot bed then rests where it should

my shoes wardrobe also consists of several pairs of Converse, gladiators and flip flops for spring/summer

and flat riding boots for winter

I am such a MN footwear cliche, it has to be said

izzyizin Sun 17-Jun-12 21:10:40

Try Frye boots, AF. Wrangler boots do it for me too.

I can recall teaming ballgowns with doc martens but in the interests of appearing non-muttonesque, these days I opt for 3" heels - purely of the footwear variety, you understand grin.

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 21:11:56

have tried Frye boots, but I am of the long legged build and they finish mid calf which looks a bit daft on me

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 21:12:54

or do I mean Fly (London) boots ?

I might mean them

Frye are cowboy-type things, yeah ?

doggiemumma Sun 17-Jun-12 21:17:02

I love my fly boots smile I don't spend anything on clothes (all from charity shop) but have been known to spend £250 on boots before shock Haven't done that for a LONG time though. I am very much a comfort girl though, used to do heels in the past, leave that to my DD now.

JamieandTheOlympicTorch Sun 17-Jun-12 21:17:45

As a counsellor, you don't rush to make formulations, or give advice, in the first session. She sounds woefully inexperienced

JamieandTheOlympicTorch Sun 17-Jun-12 21:19:04

Oh God, sorry, I thought I had read whole thread !!

izzyizin Sun 17-Jun-12 21:25:00

Yep, Frye cowboy gal boots. <<sings Rawhide theme song>>

The counsellor is relatively inexperienced Jamie but that doesn't mean she's incompetent or that she should be harshly judged on the first session.

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 21:29:55

Jamie, but what are your thoughts on the footwear sitch ? smile

izzyizin Sun 17-Jun-12 21:33:06

Sounds like you need a pair of those black patent thigh high numbers to accomodate your <<stealth boast or what?>> long legs, AF grin

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 21:35:19


no thigh high numbers here grin

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 21:46:34

nyway enough with the shoes, what about me? It's all about me me me, me, me, lol. Just remember that when I reach another 1000 post that half of them were about shoes grin

Daughter still awake and it's now 9.30 but she seems to be like this every night at the moment..., she has laid all her teddies out on her bedroom floor and covered them with tea towels in case they get cold.

I'm watching Parenthood and eating chocolate....

izzyizin Sun 17-Jun-12 21:50:01

You don't fool me AF - you've got a pair of Miss Whiplash boots that come up to your knees tucked away in your closet wink

Dozer Sun 17-Jun-12 22:16:47

This thread has suddenly gone all style and beauty - eek!

Skye, have been thinking about the other day when you were finding it difficult to do stuff, e.g. changing bulbs, that your H used to do. That kind of stuff can be really stressful, felt for you. Might it help to make a list of the things he used to do, that you find tricky, then work it out, get friends and family to show you stuff, take notes on what to do etc. And to gather recommendations for fab tradespeople to call should something essential break down. My aunt did those things when my uncle died.

Also, has your solicitor helped you sort financial stuff out so that if he gets into debt you won't be liable? He sounds like the sort of bloke who would spend a lot and be all "oh but I was stressed, I couldn't possibly keep track of my credit card"!

Hope you have a good week.

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 22:18:48

skye ? this thread is all about you ?

are you kidding ? This is about us grin (and me and my long legs)

ha! The only "sharp" thing in my closet is my tongue wink

stuffitunderthebed Sun 17-Jun-12 22:37:13

So the new elephant in the room is shoes? Ha! Seriously though Skye it's ace to see you managing to be so lighthearted. It is amazing to see the difference in you. Well done. (And well done to the fabulous ladies who've helped you along the way) grin

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 22:39:23

Me and my short legs are feeling very inferior now smile this is why I can't change lightbulbs!

My dad is going to show me how to start the lawnmower so then I can mow the lawn. He fixed it the other day for me. Had been waiting months for H to put it in his van and take it to the repair shop! I know now how to get the hall lampshade off, it's been up since we moved in snd bulb only just gone 6 years later so forgot how it worked lol.

Just got to buy this stepstool or ladder or something do that I can reach the stuff in the cupboards top shelf and the DVDs which are on shelves at ceiling height.....

I always hated being 5'3" but I hate it even more now that 6'3" H is gone!

stuffitunderthebed Sun 17-Jun-12 22:41:56

Skye - get a step ladder. Far more practical than your pie in the sky, head in the clouds, soon to be ex 6 ft 3 dick head of a husband! (Sorry to be blunt)

AnyFucker Sun 17-Jun-12 22:44:12

skye, you recently got rid of a foot of useless bollix

treasure that 5ft 3" of wondrousness

stuffitunderthebed Sun 17-Jun-12 22:55:00

Hear hear A.F!

skyebluesapphire Sun 17-Jun-12 22:57:49

Thanks everyonesmile

Just watching Katie (price) and her son Harvey playing with frogs.

stuffitunderthebed Sun 17-Jun-12 23:10:59

Has Katie kissed it yet in her eternal search for a prince?

Bunnyjo Sun 17-Jun-12 23:11:17

Nothing wrong with being 5'3" (coming from a fellow petite one, also 5'3"). Skye, you're sounding really strong and the tone of your posts have changed with that. I know it's really difficult to convey something like tone over text, but your posts are no longer about what he and OW are thinking/ feeling/ doing, but about what you are thinking/ feeling/ doing about the future.

I second Dozer's suggestion of checking where your solicitor is with financial arrangements - you have alluded to your H's financial incapabilities a few times and I would hate for you to be 'shafted' in terms of financial settlement because he is potentially racking up lots of debt or squandering joint finances during this time.

Back to the shoe note - DH lurves his Birkenstocks, but I find them a device of torture! I am, however, completely flat-footed whilst DH's instep is huge... I wonder if that has something to do with it? I do have some very comfy Sketchers and Clarks shoes, oh and some lovely Ash and Janet&Janet ones too. I also have a gorgeous pair of NineWest heels that were partially responsible for me tearing my knee cartilage and anterior cruciate ligament. Heels are my nemesis now sad

Midwife99 Sun 17-Jun-12 23:50:31

Right the only bloody thing that's cheering me up right now is that I'm 5'8", have 32" inside leg measurement & wear skyscraper heals with ease as long as they're wide fit for my big fat feet Small mercies eh?! smile

skyebluesapphire Mon 18-Jun-12 00:12:19

My H went bankrupt in about 1998, not really his fault, he took over his fathers business and customers defaulted on him. BUT when I met him in 2002 his mum had just took out a 15k loan for him to clear his credit card debts.... He then ran up a further £1500 on a card so i put that on a 0% card in my name to save him the interest then he ran up the same again and hid it from me. When i found out i was very upset and let down but he couldnt see what the problem was... I walked out he rang a friend who told him he was a twat and I was right.... So he apologised and we sorted it out and he never did it again. We so nearly split up over that! This was early days before we married. Then when I sold my house he, still had 8k of that left when we bought this house do I paid that off so he could help pay the mortgage here.

I got £88k out of my last house so dont want him to walk away from here with much. I hate being so mercenary but didn't protect myself when we bought because I thought we'd be together forever....

I know he has no money now and must have easily spent £1000 on clothes, laptop printer etc since he went and probably more besides. It's all in his name but I need him off the deeds to the house so that there is no claim if he goes under. He has a £10k business overdraft that he took out to pay tax in January with more tax due in July and January and no money to pay it.... If he puts it all on the card then he could get into serious trouble and I don't want to be dragged down with him..

izzyizin Mon 18-Jun-12 00:16:23

Maybe you should have told your counsellor the practical reasons why divorce should be sooner rather than later.

I suggest you print off your various threads including this one, highlight the issues you want to tackle, and give your counsellor a copy to read at her leisure.

Midwife99 Mon 18-Jun-12 08:07:01

Contact experian or equifax & declare yourself financially separated. Just takes one letter & hurry up & divorce him to reduce your financial risk in the future. I can't see how he's entitled to anything from the house. There will be evidence you put down the deposit not him.

skyebluesapphire Mon 18-Jun-12 08:27:59

Trouble is we put the house in joint names snd that's all that concerns the judge according to the solicitor. He also said that no judge will allow him to walk away with nothing. If I could get him to accept say ten grand there is a chance my parents could pay him off and we could have a clean break

tribpot Mon 18-Jun-12 13:30:59

I still think Midwife's advice is worth it, skye. Unsecured debt is different from the house, and the last thing you need even for debts that are entirely his responsibility is being chased for payments because they have your address.

Midwife99 Mon 18-Jun-12 13:34:47

Yeah that's the thing, the creditors may not legally be able to make you pay his unsecured debts but they can still make your life a misery!

skyebluesapphire Mon 18-Jun-12 18:40:37

saw the wife of my old office manager today, I have been keeping them up to date by email as we worked together for a long time and are good friends. She said we have been worried about you. I said thanks, but no need now. I was devastated and in bits, but now I am getting on with my life. I am divorcing him! and she was shocked! lol. She said so soon?! and I said yes, he is adamant it is over and i am adamant that I wouldnt take him back anyway as he cheated on me emotionally with his best friends wife..... She agreed then, that I was making the right decision and that I need to move on!

So I feel positive today. Have worked this morning, spent the afternoon at my mums (she picked DD up from preschool). I am going to spend some time with DD now watching Tom & Jerry (again...).

The one remaining friend that he has locally on the (dreaded) facebook has informed me that he has changed his status from separated to single . What a sad twat he is, I just laughed at how pathetic he has become. A few weeks ago finding that out would have destroyed me! I am so glad I blocked him and them. Dont jump on me, as I am only mentioning this because I think my reaction to the news shows how much further on I am now! (My status still says separated as legally that is what I am until the divorce goes through!)

I asked this person nicely not to tell me anything else, as he is blocked as his life is no concern of mine now.

Midwife99 Mon 18-Jun-12 19:38:08

Well done Skye - perfect response!

AnyFucker Mon 18-Jun-12 20:29:06


tribpot Mon 18-Jun-12 20:32:02

Excellent, skye! It's brilliant you're able to detach from their fuckwittery whilst you sail serenely on into the future. Blocked on FB and blocked in life, perfect.

skyebluesapphire Mon 18-Jun-12 20:42:54

Thanks all. I can't believe how far I've come in such a short space of time. Not speaking to and not seeing him definitely helps with that.

Poor DD tonight was asking why daddy isn't allowed in the house any more. I said its because he chose to live in another house so he doesn't need to come in ours any more but he still loves her very much. :-(

She told my mum today that she likes seeing daddy but is sad that mummy can't be there too. Then she said we are not a family any more:-(

I think she is picking up on stuff I have said and I feel bloody awful now! I told her that me and her are a family and that we are going on hOliday soon and we have got each other and she still has daddy too....

AnyFucker Mon 18-Jun-12 20:46:51

skye, you are getting there in leaps and bounds, m'girl

Midwife99 Tue 19-Jun-12 06:36:38

Detaching has really helped. You sound great. smile

skyebluesapphire Tue 19-Jun-12 12:07:09

So, this morning I had the letter from my solicitor. H received his petition on 9 June and then got himself a solicitor. He is not defending it, but he denies that there is an intimate relationship going on with OW. it states that OW and her H are happily married and that he is lodging with them while looking for accommodation. He will not defend it in the context of the divorce, but if the allegations are repeated elsewhere, they will be challenged......

I cant believe that OW hasnt contacted me about this! I am glad she didnt but assumed that she would as soon as she knew about the petition. I was expecting a load of grief, but didnt get it. Also H texted me about would I ever talk to him again, after he got the petition, so again he cant be that pissed off about it? Don't care though anyway. If he had divorced me he could have gone for my unreasonable behaviour, but he chose not to so has to accept this or it will cost him a lot of money. Plus what I have stated is true and he knows it, so his solicitor probably told him that if I can prove what I have said, he cant deny it!

I have made an appointment now to see the solicitor regarding the decree nisi and I have got form E to fill in regarding finances etc. H is willing to negotiate regarding the house and also wants overnight access to DD once in his own accommodation.

I feel so sad again now as its all seeming so final and I still cant believe that it has come to this in 4 months since I was hit with the bombshell.

But I need to stay tough to sort out his financial share of the house, ie as little as possible!! I need to study this form E in detail tonight, I havent had time yet.

Good luck with the paperwork, Skye - I hope you can protect your DD's future from being leeched away.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 19-Jun-12 12:26:02

Maybe the reason why he wanted to talk to you was to talk you out of including that bit about OW or to ask you not to reveal to OW's husband?

You are doing really well!

skyebluesapphire Tue 19-Jun-12 12:29:31

well he always said he would be fair over the house if we split in the early years (stupid hypothetical conversation....) and he always said that he wouldnt take from me and DD.

Now is the time for him to stand by what he said. I want my solicitor to offer him as little as possible, and H needs to be strong against his solicitor and say I dont care what Im entitled to, it belongs to W and DD ultimately, I will walk away with X amount and be grateful!.

If I ever end up being so stupid as to get married again - then i will protect my house before I get married!

Proudnscary Tue 19-Jun-12 14:05:22

Hi Skye

It's awesome what you have achieved and how well you are doing.

I am also sooo glad you had the bravery to cite the texts and inappropriate relationship with OW on your divorce petition.

How satisfying for you that it is there in black and white and your stbxh is not contesting it.

OK, it may be for the smoothness of the divorce and in his financial interest, but you are spot on that his lawyer will say 'well you can only challenge this if you can prove this isn't true'. Unfortunately for him you can prove it IS true. Whether or not they were having a sexual relationship (they were/are) your evidence shows he was involved with her to the detriment of your marriage.

How very interesting that he said he wanted to remain friends after he received this petition. He knows he did wrong - I bet he is secretly in awe of you that you were strong enough to include it in the petition.

His head is probably spinning - this woman who begged and pleaded for her marriage has seen the wood for the trees. She is taking matters into her own hands, showing him up for the unfaithful nob he is and pressing ahead with the divorce!

Also interesting that OW has kept her texting digits still for once...she can't contest it either can she? My hope is that she is absolutely shitting it and she and your h are desperately trying to keep this from her husband and working out how on earth to come out of this one smelling of roses.

oldwomaninashoe Tue 19-Jun-12 15:23:41

I think they are trying to keep Skye sweet 'cos they are worried she might get in touch with OW's husband.

Just keep them on tenterhooks Skye, they must be Sh*****g themselves, as you are not "communicating" with either of them, it must be very frustrating for them, as they don't know what you might do or say!

You are doing so well at the moment, just think of them both and have a quiet laugh to yourself when you are feeling down!

Your silence must be making them very anxious

Midwife99 Tue 19-Jun-12 15:46:33

Well done Skye, you are the model of strength & calm now. They must be shitting themselves!!!

skyebluesapphire Tue 19-Jun-12 17:22:35

I'm just having a really bad five minutes again. Crying again which i havent done for days. Been looking at this form E and feeling really sad that in the end it all boils down to who gets what. Also Just had a phone call from a lady about taking over my H's accounts because I used to do it all for him. I know I told him to get somebody else and gave him all the files back but this is just yet another reminder that it's over and that my life is so different now. I know I'm just being daft but I'm really upset about everything again. I was doing so well.

Also tomorrow is the 5th anniversary of OW losing her daughter and in the past I gave always acknowledged the date to her and sent her a message but I can't do that this year . I feel so sad about everything .

My counsellor has had to cancel this weeks season as she has training she can't get out of. She tried to arrange another day but I can't make it any other day.

skyebluesapphire Tue 19-Jun-12 17:22:55

Season = session

DoingItForMyself Tue 19-Jun-12 18:54:02

Its such a rollercoaster isn't it Skye. One minute you feel free and strong and capable and the next a little thing catches you and you well up and feel the world crashing down around your ears again.

Its probably best that you don't send her a message anyway. Its her day and anything you did say, however well-meaning, could be misconstrued as you 'sticking your oar in' where it isn't needed. Its sad, but its part of her life, not yours so try not to think about it.

Sending you a hug. I came on here for a bit of hand-holding tonight too, but I feel like a fraud as everyone else's worries seem so much worse than mine. Feeling thankful for what I have. x

Midwife99 Tue 19-Jun-12 19:15:36

Yes emotional roller coaster. Ups & downs - I guess it's normal. Yes I agree don't contact ow no matter what. Chin up chuck - we'll all be ok. confused

skyebluesapphire Tue 19-Jun-12 19:26:02

We all seem to be having a shit day today don't we?

I've got a grip now and my friend has texted to say she has arranged a girls night round at my house in a couple of weeks so that's something to look forward to. She was talking about it at school saying x and y and z are coming and I said coming where and she said your house, didn't i tell you?! she had arranged it with them and forgot to tell me lol. It's because they can all get out and I can't so it's great of them to come here.

I hope we all have a better day tomorrow. I was desperate to talk to somebody earlier but everyone was busy and I felt really alone :-(

DoingItForMyself Tue 19-Jun-12 21:59:41

Ah bless her that's really lovely that your friend is working round your situation.

Lets hope tomorrow is a brighter day all round x

Xales Tue 19-Jun-12 22:07:04

Interesting choice of words your H has used there.

I didn't think that you put he had an intimate (I would say sexual or emotional = intimate) relationship but that he was inappropriately texting her numerous times. Not the same thing if you see what I mean. So he can quite legitimately hand on heart say to himself they weren't intimate (ie had sex) but didn't say we weren't inappropriate because he can't really deny that.

So he is still twisting words to make him look better. He never is going to accept his role in this.

Subtle difference and who cares at the end of the day as long as he fairly gives you back what is yours.

Glad that you are feeling stronger most of the time with no contact. It is still a long way to go, you will get there and emerge the better person out of all this.

skyebluesapphire Tue 19-Jun-12 22:19:55

I think the solicitor put that they exchanged messages of an intimate nature on Facebook, you can't get rid of me, I can see your cheeky little face, yes snd i can see yours too, back to text H is coming, then went on to refer to the fact that they continued texting emailing etc right through family holiday building up to 100 times a day by the time he walked out.

The main thing is that we did not claim affair we just stated the facts. If his solicitor asked if these things were true he would have had to say yes as he knows I can prove it all. But I can just hear him saying, it's not like that though.....

He wAnts to look up the definition of emotional affair on wikipedia.... It's him and her spot on!!!

Proudnscary Wed 20-Jun-12 09:04:12

Hope you have a better day today. Enjoy the sunshine if you can x

skyebluesapphire Wed 20-Jun-12 16:51:08

So he texted to see DD again. He is managing to see her every Wednesday but I never know til half way through the day.

She was asking this morning when the weekend is when she will see Daddy and I said four more sleeps, then he turns up to get her from school.

I dont know whether to push him to agree to come every Wednesday but it could mean he could have to turn down a good paying job and it would be sods law it would be the only work he gets all week! Obviously he needs to earn money to pay me...

tribpot Wed 20-Jun-12 17:06:30

What do you think is best for your dd, skye? She's getting towards an age where she can understand that she might get a bonus visit from daddy in the week but not every week - but probably not old enough to understand she will see him most Wednesdays (if you see the distinction).

Today can be a lovely surprise for her, whereas my ds at nearly 7 would know which day of the week it was and thus whether or not he could expect the 'surprise' that day.

It's up to him to decide whether he can commit to every Wednesday, and manage that around work or any other commitments he might have. I think personally I would say you think it's fairer to dd to get two planned visits a week rather than one planned and one ad hoc, is he able to commit to that.

skyebluesapphire Wed 20-Jun-12 17:43:51

Raa!!!!! I'm really really annoyed now!!! DD has just come in saying that she is going to watch OW play netball at the weekend with daddy and her H.

Am I expecting too much that he spends time with his daughter on his own and not watching his text buddy play netball? Is there anything I can say about this without sounding like a total bitch.?

skyebluesapphire Wed 20-Jun-12 18:17:28

Raa!!!!! I'm really really annoyed now!!! DD has just come in saying that she is going to watch OW play netball at the weekend with daddy and her H.

Am I expecting too much that he spends time with his daughter on his own and not watching his text buddy play netball? Is there anything I can say about this without sounding like a total bitch.?

Doha Wed 20-Jun-12 18:20:35

Unfortunatly not.
What she does with DF when she is in her care is his decision. Just as what she does with you is really none of his business.
Detach detach detach...

skyebluesapphire Wed 20-Jun-12 18:21:18

Oops, so mad I posted it twice lol. Have just emailed him giving him plenty of notice of the two Sunday's that I want her, saying that i trust he agrees that its not fair on her to miss friends parties. also asked him how much he wants her during the six weeks of the summer holidays and saying that hopefully he will be in his own Place soon and have her overnight in a regular basis. I also said she is unavailable during our holiday.

Didn't mention netball at all ...

Dozer Wed 20-Jun-12 18:55:41

Well done skye, restraint is good!

The girls' night sounds fun, I love evenings like that.

skyebluesapphire Wed 20-Jun-12 19:20:49

He hasn't replied though and it's an hour now ., twat!

I want him out of my life so bad now !! I can't believe I have to put up with him for the next fourteen years because of DD. we should have enjoyed her childhood together and now it's going to be full of arguments about access holidays money etc and her being shuttled between two homes. What a bastard for doing that to her. All because he wasn't man enough to sort our problems out....

skyebluesapphire Thu 21-Jun-12 11:14:48

Still no reply to my email so what do I do now? Ask for a response or leave it? Maybe he is just seeing it as an Order not a request therefore no response required??...

I just want to slap some sense into him! With a sledgehammer......

Abitwobblynow Thu 21-Jun-12 11:20:03

I love counselling; in the most caring way possible it cuts through the crap. I was talking to a man the other day who went at crisis point. He is quite evangelical about it now, he said: I was amazed at how [disciplining] it is.

"decide where we go next to address my behaviour and how I can deal with things"

is about your co-dependency. Trust your counsellor, and follow her, and work with honesty on the areas she suggests. The harder you work, the quicker you will change.

Abitwobblynow Thu 21-Jun-12 11:26:14

Your constant contacting your husband in the guise of this that and the next FB thing?

Is your co-dependency. You are, literally addicted to your H, and live 'through' him. What a burden, why would he want to run away from it????*

Which is why your counsellor will try to get you to see things from his point of view.

*BTDT had the same challenges, the same issues brought up. Not talking to you about anything I haven't gone through already, I know how hard it is. But Please lets not have another 1,000 post on the same stuff before you 'get it' .... try hard to NOT contact him!!!! Fight your addiction. If you don't leave him in 'his' space ... how will he miss you? How will he not push you away the whole time? Don't be afraid of silence and facing yourself: you will NOT die!

skyebluesapphire Thu 21-Jun-12 11:33:13

I am not contacting him. I reply to his texts with yes or no. I sent him a blunt email yesterday about access to daughter to which I expect a reply so that I can make arrangements.

I have no interest in his life other than that it is suitable for DD.

I do not see him or speak to him. I am certainly not codependent on him. He is blocked on Facebook and when somebody told me something he said on there I politely said I dontt want to know.

Abitwobblynow Thu 21-Jun-12 11:36:51

And before everyone jumps up and down about the 'miss' comment: I mean, find himself in his own space that does not involve focussing on Skye in order to not look at himself... All the time he is loving focussing on 'her' faults he doesn't have to stand still.

And that goes for Skye too.

mistlethrush Thu 21-Jun-12 12:02:35

Sky - the trouble is that you're expecting him to want to sort things out so that you can organise things for yourself and DD. What's in it for him - absolutely nothing - therefore there's no point in him doing anything - its much better for him not to answer then a) he's got you waiting on his response, b) he can then tell you what HE's going to do when its too late for you to do anything about it.

This is not how things will work best for you.

You need to work out a programme that works for you but gives him sufficient time with DD. Then you need to present it to him - you might give a couple of options here and there - but you need to set it out and say 'this is what's happening, if you have any problems with any of the suggestions or dates you need to get back to me with an alternative by ....'

That way its all clear, you're not waiting on a reply and he can't complain that its all wrong if he later decides something's not acceptable or he wants to change the plans.

skyebluesapphire Thu 21-Jun-12 12:15:15

I did put it that I was giving him plenty of notice that I want get on this Sunday in August and that Sunday in September snd that he could have her on Saturday instead. So he has probably taken it as an order whereas I was expecting a reply as I said I hope you agree that it's not fair for DD to miss out on these parties.

I don't need to contact him apart from that as he has her every Sunday. I just wanted to give him plenty of warning that I want her those two days. This all comes back to me being organised and him thinking that life just happens around you......

Maybe he just doesn't think a response is necessary, more misunderstandings, which seems to be all that happened during the end if our marriage. I say something as a discussion point and he takes it as read....

I'm past caring now, I've had enough of trying to explain myself to him. I don't need to do that any more.

Proudnscary Thu 21-Jun-12 13:29:17

I think you are doing just fine on the 'detaching' front, Skye.

I don't think you are invested in him or the drama anymore so I think comments have been unfair to you.

I can understand why you are infuriated that he's not replied. I agree that he probably is just tacitly agreeing and doesn't think he needs to respond. Or he is fuming/mulling it over - but that definitely is something for you to put out of your head and leave up to him.

You are finding your way with the co-parenting of your dd and will get there. It must be very difficult, frustrating, upsetting for you especially as you don't want to see or talk to him at all but have to for the sake of your daughter.

Chin up and hang on in there love x

Xales Thu 21-Jun-12 14:04:49

Can you get a read receipt on your texts? If not can I suggest you move to email where you can get a read receipt so that you know if he has bothered to read your message.

If he doesn't reply then just take your DD on the Sundays . You have been very fair and given him plenty of notice. It is for your DDs benefit as much as yours.

If he doesn't reply about the Saturdays then assume he is not going to bother and don't sit around being in for him. Don't make plans but go out with your DD to the park or something. Why should you sit and wait on him?

He doesn't get to not communicate and then do what he wants if he feels like it. He will learn very fast he doesn't get what he wants without being decent and communicating it.

I think you are starting to get there. Can I say we all told you so on the non communication now? grin I know you had to do what you thought was right and you are the one who lives with themself at the end of the day.

One day you will realise it doesn't hurt any more.

skyebluesapphire Thu 21-Jun-12 14:47:42

Thank you. Yes in one way I'm glad I did what I did as I'm satisfied that I couldn't have done any more to save my marriage but in another way I regret some of the things I said and did. But overall I can walk away with my head held high knowing that I did all I could.

His behaviour through that period also helped to prove to me that I am better off without him, which I wouldn't have realised if I hadn't gone through it. I think if I had just let him walk away I would have been left with a lot of "what ifs" but now I don't have them now as he proved himself to be a total and utter git.

Now that I have minimal contact with him it is so much easier to deal with. He thinks he is a nice decent bloke and he isn't. I need to stay away from him until I'm sure I can see him without feeling anything other than indifference.

sadwidow28 Thu 21-Jun-12 15:36:59

Skye, I have followed all your threads and want to say that I believe you acted entirely appropriately for you. This is YOUR life, it isn't a game or just an internet saga. I do respect the wisdom of the Mumsnetters who have walked a similar path before, but you have to make your own decisions and do whatever it takes for you to keep your head held high - and manage damage limitation on the emotional side.

You are doing so well, and I have seen a change in your posts recently. You are coming through as a strong, independent woman who cares about the well-being of your DD but who won't take any more nonsense from STBXH.

You are limiting the contact with STBXH about arrangements for DD. Write any emails in the form of "this is what is happening unless you tell me otherwise" and then you don't expect a reply. Make sure that you keep copies of these contact arrangements (so email is better than text).

Stay strong and keep facing forward. Don't look back because that is where the pain is. Facing forward helps you to focus on the future - a future that has all the potential to be bright, calm and termendously happy with a civil co-parenting relationship.

Midwife99 Thu 21-Jun-12 16:25:31

Yes I agree that you are detaching much more than even 2 weeks ago. Telling him about contact changes is fair enough although maybe better left until nearer the time?

Mumsyblouse Thu 21-Jun-12 18:57:14

I agree with those that said do your contact arrangements by email, that way you have a record, a read receipt and evidence if you need it. It is also easier to spell out things rather than cramming them into a text, including when you need to hear by if he doens't agree/need to change arrangements.

Keep it distanced and simple, you are doing really well.

skyebluesapphire Thu 21-Jun-12 19:30:42

I did email him this time as I wanted a record of it. I also wanted to give him plenty of notice because I am organised and he isnt (one of the many many reasons why he left me........). But I thought it only fair to give him prior warning and I will have to remind him again nearer the time or he will forget.....

I also wanted to tell him that he cant see her while Im on holiday. (I had previously said that he could, but that was weeks ago, when I thought we would still be on a trial separation and I said that he could come down and see her as we arent going very far away, but due to the circumstances and the fact that it unsettles her when she sees him, I dont think its fair to ruin our holiday!) and if we were going miles away he wouldnt be able to.

I also said he needs to think about how much he wants her in the six weeks of the summer holidays. He may need to work, but so do I!!

But if he doesnt respond, then I will wait a couple of weeks, see if we get into mediation before end of term and if not, ask him again at teh end of July and request a response.

Midwife99 Fri 22-Jun-12 07:11:49

Yes fair enough Skye. Business like is good.

skyebluesapphire Fri 22-Jun-12 09:35:32

Stupid twunt has sent my neighbour a Facebook friend request (after unfriend ing everybody here because he had no friends....)

I said I would rather you didn't because I don't want to know what he is up to and I don't want him to know what I'm up to. So she agreed to ignore it :-)

Midwife99 Fri 22-Jun-12 10:06:00

That's it - don't join in!!

Bunnyjo Fri 22-Jun-12 11:12:31

He's getting more desperate because he's beginning to see how well you're detaching. If he's still blocked by you, there is no way he'll be able to see anything of yours anyway, but obviously it's even better that your neighbour has decided to ignore it.

What I found pertinent was when you said 'Now that I have minimal contact with him it is so much easier to deal with. He thinks he is a nice decent bloke and he isn't. I need to stay away from him until I'm sure I can see him without feeling anything other than indifference.'. You realise and understand that his actions still have an ability to affect you and, by distancing yourself, you are minimising his ability/opportunity to do that. And, in doing all the above, we can all see how much you are growing in strength.

Keep going Skye, you are getting there x

skyebluesapphire Fri 22-Jun-12 12:05:44

Thanks. I'm seeing the solicitor next Tuesday to do the decree nisi and discuss finances...

I still can't believe it has come to this though it's only six months since we had a lovely Christmas together! And now we are getting divorced. Life us so bizarre.!

skyebluesapphire Fri 22-Jun-12 19:58:23

Spent a lovely day with my DD, my friend and the girl that she childminds. Friend is going through a divorce too and is now reasonably happy with a new man two years after kicking her H out. Proves there is life after divorce.... But she doesn't trust him after her H and it does cause problems between them. I never had trust issues before all this texting with my H and OW but I know I will have issues in future....

Feeling lonely again. I used to love the weekend as it was time to be with H and all together. Now it's just another day and I'm lonely because everybody else is spending family time together so I don't like to bother friends..... Am trapped at home too coz of DD. my mum would probably babysit but where would I go? I don't want to end up down the pub on my own drinking like I used to when I was young free and single!

Dozer Fri 22-Jun-12 21:14:58

Hi skye, classic that he is seeking to befriend your neighbour, how pathetic! You sound cool calm and collected.

Don't assume that people in relationships won't want to meet up at weekends. Can be a good time for Dc to play (in the week they're tired from preschool/school and tend to squabble) and partners to get a break from childcare and each other! Eg your friend could meet you with the Dc, her partner gets a break! Or you go to theirs, just a short social thing can break up the day. some people have partners who work at weekends. And there're more and more saturday activities aimed at full-time WOHMs that could be fun. Can't hurt to ask people to do stuff.

Keep onto getting those finances sorted! Nag nag nag.

skyebluesapphire Fri 22-Jun-12 21:32:47

Seeing solicitor on Tues so will know more after then. Will have to start looking into mortgage etc... I totally hate having to do all this. While I dont want H back now I do want my old life back if that makes sense ?!! Before any of this happened!

want to offer him as little as possible. We have paid off fifteen thousand in 6 years so I don't think he should get any more than that.

skyebluesapphire Sat 23-Jun-12 10:52:20

Having a bad morning. Not sure why but feel so sad. Think it's because everybody is talking about holidays. We always had a cheap weekend away in June. DD knows that we are going away in a few weeks and keeps asking if Daddy is coming and if we are going to Peppa Pug World again. I know we will have a good holiday anyway but I can't believe how he can do this to his daughter.

Everybody I speak to thInks that his behaviour in just walking out is totally dispicable yet he can't see it. I do despise him now and really don't want him back but I am still so sad for the loss of the three of us as a family.

I want H to end up sad and lonely and regretting that he threw his whole life away just because he wouldn't talk to me and then turned to someone else. I hope he ends up miserable and has a crap life while I go on to meet someone new in time.

Last night I found myself looking at plenty of fish but I can't bring myself to sign up for it properly. I don't think I'm ready yet plus I'm scared of all the weirdos out there! I don't want pictures of cocks being sent to me! There are a lot of local men on there who claim they want a relationship but are they genuine. One man looked nice but his upper age was 38 and I'm 40!

My friend said I'm not ready yet snd that I should wait until I'm divorced and also not until i know that I have no feelings left for H.

Bit of a ranting ramble but I feel like that today. !! Off to the school fete later if the weather holds....

tribpot Sat 23-Jun-12 11:05:18

It does make sense, Skye - it's just one thing after another after another needing to be investigated and planned and reorganised. As well as the emotional trauma your day-to-day life has all been thrown up in the air and it's just exhausting having to find the right place to put all the pieces down again.

Hopefully your solicitor can advise on the figure to offer that is reasonable; I fear all the previous promises of making sure you and dd were taken care of may vanish when his solicitor advises him of the same.

Midwife99 Sat 23-Jun-12 12:53:23

No Skye don't start dating yet. Even if you do find a prince among the frogs you need to be in a good strong place yourself to be ready for a good relationship. Also you need to be tough enough to deal with the messing about you inevitably get with dating. Plenty of time for plenty of fish.

skyebluesapphire Sat 23-Jun-12 12:59:17

Thanks Midwife. Just having a crap day again. I hate the weekends! I know I'm not ready to date really but a bit of flirty chat would be nice...

Hope things are ok with you.

DoingItForMyself Sat 23-Jun-12 15:26:02

Agree that now is not the time to start even mildly flirting with other men! You need to be happy with yourself so that a) you value yourself enough to choose a loving and caring man and b) you don't scare him off with the inevitable X-bashing that will still be foremost in your thoughts!

Once you don't really care if XH is happy or not (or better still, you hope he is happy so that DD's dad is a pleasant person for her to be with) then you'll know you are ready to start dating.

While I was still with STBXH he worked most weekends, as do some of my friends' Hs. I too was always a bit wary of taking happily marrieds away from their partners, but actually most of my friends do things separately for at least part of the weekend. Hs go running or to the gym, then Ws take older DCs out to the park while H stays home with younger ones etc. Its not all playing 'happy families' for everyone else and even those who do spend time together are generally happy to do things with another family, whether that's a one-parent or two-parent family is irrelevant.

Speak to your friends and try to arrange something for next weekend, or just let it be known that your door is always open for anyone who wants a cuppa and a change of scenery.

Midwife99 Sat 23-Jun-12 18:59:55

Yes weekends are hard, especially if you're not close to your family like me so can't see parents or siblings. As your DD gets older you will become a taxi service for her anyway! Swimming lessons, horse riding, dance classes, etc etc etc will be the order of the day! That's what I do on Saturdays, husband or not.

skyebluesapphire Sat 23-Jun-12 19:07:06

I went to the school fete, but that was just depressing because its all families again and it makes me sad!!!! On the plus side I picked up some school uniform for my DD for 50p an item! So that will save me a fortune when she starts in September.

Im just cooking a frozen chicken dinner for me and DD to share! couldnt be bothered to do anything else. and then debating whether or not to open a bottle of wine...... I cant even watch a dvd as the bloody shelves are right up near the ceiling. seemed like a good idea when I had a tall H living here! Had to laugh because when he walked out , the first thought that one of my mates had was "oh no, how is she going to reach her dvd's now?!" LOL. grin

I am a bit brighter again now, but just hate the fooking weekend so much now and I used to look foward to them so much as it meant that H would be around for 2 days! Oh well, c'est la vie!

Midwife99 Sat 23-Jun-12 19:13:06

Where do you live?

Dozer Sat 23-Jun-12 19:13:42

Worth going solely for the 50p uniform (love a bargain!)

Dd will love the holiday you have planned.

Open the wine!

Another vote for avoiding dating sites.

skyebluesapphire Sat 23-Jun-12 19:47:50

Well dd loved the frozen roast chicken dinner ready meal, fed both of us for £1.50 lol .

Also bought dd a Dora suitcase for £3 so she is well happy. Had a thought about the uniform, bought 2 school sweatshirts for 50p each and they are £7 new. Seeing as H said he would pay for half the school uniform shall I pretend I bought them new and make a profit of £6.50??!! Lol.

It's pouring down again now, all it does is bloody rain at the moment.

Midwife, I live in the southwest of England in a very rainy wet place!

tribpot Sat 23-Jun-12 19:49:41

skye - step-ladder. In the meantime, just stand on a chair! You can't literally be unable to reach the DVDs. I've got to get up the ladder to clear out one of the gutters tomorrow, not looking forward to that confused

I think you see families looking the way you want to see them / thought they would be. Your dd will be very far from the only child there with separated/divorced parents. I noticed lots of mums and dads and grans and grandads at our school fair today, very unlikely they were all packaged up in neat groups like that though!

Xales Sat 23-Jun-12 19:49:57

Get a pair of long BBQ tongs. I use some to get jars from the top shelf in the kitchen grin

skyebluesapphire Sat 23-Jun-12 20:00:28

Lol, I have got some BBQ tongs that I use to get cereal packets and kitchen rolls of the top of the kitchen cupboards where H put them.

I really do need to get that stepladder don't I?! The DVDs at ceiling height I cant even reach if I stand on a chair. It seemed like such a good idea at the time right out of the way......

Going to spend tomorrow printing out bank statements etc for this Form E...

Only 3 weeks til my holiday now..

Midwife99 Sat 23-Jun-12 20:11:51

You must be quite near Chocoraisin then. Raining here too in south west midlands!

tribpot Sat 23-Jun-12 20:50:44

Sounds like what you need are those floor-to-ceiling steps that whizz along rails from one end of a library shelf to another. At least, I think they do in Lego Indiana Jones, not sure about in real life smile

I can't imagine how high these ceilings must be, do you live in some kind of Versailles-style palace?!

Bunnyjo Sat 23-Jun-12 20:54:33

Hope you're feeling better Skye. I'm 'oop in the north west... Flood warnings and burst river banks all over the place, thank God we live at the top of a (small) valley!

Midwife99 Sat 23-Jun-12 21:04:47

grin tribpot - now also imagining Ronnie Corbett with his high shelves & ladders in the "Four Candles" sketch!!

skyebluesapphire Sat 23-Jun-12 21:05:07

I am about an hour away from choco and we are hoping to meet up at some point in the future :-)

Still raining..... Still not opened the wine... God knows how many channels on sky and still nothing on... I might as well cancel it and save £24.50 a month... But I do like my sky plus and you can only have that if you pay for a sky package.... It's my only luxury but it will be the first thing to go if money gets tight.

I bought some baccy the other day but I havent given in and smoked any yet... I haven't smoked for over five years now, apart from the odd one when drunk. I really dont want to start again but I was desperate when I bought it but calmed down before I smoked any!

Bunnyjo Sat 23-Jun-12 21:22:00

Skye, haggle with your sky package. I've just got 50% off my sky package and 75% off the HD+ part for 12 mth... They're desperate to keep people, so just keep on threatening them with Virgin/ BT or plain cancellation.

I am a total and utter wuss, so if I can haggle anyone can!

Midwife99 Sat 23-Jun-12 21:23:13

I changed to BT vision recently - you can record & rewind for half the price! If you go through topcashback you get £100 cashback too. Click on the link to see

skyebluesapphire Sat 23-Jun-12 22:12:31

ooh, thanks for the info on sky and bt vision both of you. i will look into both of it. I did ask the sky guy when I rang up to cancel sky sports if i could cancel sky but keep sky plus and he said no, but he did say to ring again if i was desperate as they might be able to do something, but i had forgotten about that until you said! might be worth a phone call. plus i will look into bt vision too.

i was really pissed off with H. we added sky sports just before he left and i said to him joking, you had better be hanging around as its a twelve month contract! they still let me cancel though when I explained the situation and cried down the phone at them.....

finally found an old julia roberts film to watch and am sitting on the sofa eating Pringles watching My Best Friends Wedding whilst on the laptop. My life is so wild! I wish i could go down the road to the pub and get drunk!

Midwife99 Sat 23-Jun-12 22:21:13

Oh god Best Friend's Wedding is a killer!!! Sob City!!


You need a 2 step stepladder here. It perfect for short people like us (am only 5ft myself).

skyebluesapphire Sat 23-Jun-12 22:33:14

Had a bad run on films lately, watched My Sisters Keeper last week and also The Wedding Date. All I need now is PS I love You and I'll be slashing my wrists for sure!! lol

Friend posted on facebook earlier that she cant decide what song to have for the first dance at their wedding as they dont have a "our song" and they cant agree on a song. its silly things that set me off because then I started to think about our wedding and our first dance song etc! What is going to be hard for me is my cousin is getting married on 27 October and my 7th anniversary would have been 22 October... Hopefully i will be in a much stronger place then, could even be divorced possibly..... but I know it will still make me sad. I know its a long way away, but it makes me sad to think of people getting married, so full of hope and so happy and never thinking that it might end after a few years....

sorry, going on a downer again, somebody give me a slap please!!

tribpot Sun 24-Jun-12 00:22:53

<slap!> it's for your own good, woman! wink

My Best Friend's Wedding is a must-watch just for the scene where they sing Say A Little Prayer in the restaurant. The lobsters crack me up. All the emotional stuff though - bugger that. I would watch The Long Kiss Goodnight. Geena Davis kicks serious booty and saves her dd into the bargain. Much more uplifting than watching Julia getting soppy over a boy and trying to nick him off Cameron Diaz. Plus no man alive should be forced to choose between Julia and Cameron, it's just cruel.

Other people's happy events are very hard to deal with - even when you wish them every happiness, as I think midwife mentioned on her thread today. But you had some good years of marriage and you have dd. It's not a failure, it's just ended.


Watch outright comedies, action films, thrillers, horror, whatever you like EXCEPT for romantic comedies, okay?

Life is NOT like a romantic comedy. People are not inherently flawed until they are conveniently partnered off. Boarderline stalking and abuse is not romantic. No one deserves to be humiliated/teased into accepting a date. Everyone can be happy single.

Oh! And love doesn't change people, redeem people, save people, or do anything else with magic and sparkles to people.

Love, if done right, can comfort and warm and strengthen people, like a good hot drink. But it can only help you be your best self, not magically make you someone else, someone different or better.
Romantic comedies are a lie, a sham, and part of the "Get a partner and be in love OR ELSE YOU ARE A FAILURE" genre of bullshit that NO ONE NEEDS.

No more romantic comedies!

Watch Calendar Girls, Made in Dagenham, Double Jeopardy, Casino Royale, Attack the Block, Shaun of The Dead - watch ANY BLOODY THING except romantic comedies!

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 01:20:26

I've got The Woman in Black recording tonight from box office and also have Silence of The Lambs. That will make a change :-)

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 12:43:42

Well daughter is with her dad, i had great plans but haven't done a stroke of work, been to the shop and bought a roast chicken dinner and a paper. Just watching Passenger 57 that I recorded yesterday. Need to motivate myself to do some accounts work!!! Oh well there is alwAys tomorrow, am quite enjoying a quiet peaceful day at the moment :-)

tribpot Sun 24-Jun-12 13:34:34

Enjoy the day, skye! You don't have to spend your quiet day working.

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 13:46:52

I'm getting behind with my work though and it also means that payment is held up too as I can't bill til I finish it! And got loads of work coming in through July!...

So I seriously need to motivate myself to get it all done, that's the only trouble with working from home, there is nobody to make you do it!

Feeling very tired today though so that's my excuse... I just want to go to sleep now!

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 16:44:40

Still done sod all and now it's 4.30pm! I told H last week to bring her back 6.30 from now on as he was late two weeks running. No doubt he will bring her back early tonight so he can go back and watch the football with his mate.

Feeling lonely now just had a few tears again. All my neighbours are out and friends are busy. Found out earlier that two different friends who have been separated from their husbands , are both trying again with them. I'm pleased for them but sad for myself. Of course there's nothing to say that they will work out but I hope they do if that's what they want.

Why oh why can't my H see what everybody else can, that he is infatuated with OW? He is the only person I know who thinks what he has done is acceptable! Not one person has said yes of course its fine to text another woman 100 times a day!!!Everybody else thinks he is a total and utter shit who is going to come unstuck when she gets tired of playing him, which she will at some point. He has ruined all our lives just because he wouldn't talk to me.

Sorry, on a right bloody downer again. Need to go and eat some cheesecake or something! I do know I'm better off without him now and I couldn't take him back as I'd never trust him again. I just need to hold on to that.

tribpot Sun 24-Jun-12 17:09:34

skye, I said somewhere upthread that I thought this disturbance in your relationship was probably inevitable at some point when you stopped being able to put him on a pedestal and actually needed some support from him. He is too weak and selfish to be able to offer that. If he had been somewhat more mature you might have been able to talk about it but I'm not sure it could ever have resolved itself to your satisfaction, not long term.

Fingers crossed for your friends. Are you the sort of person who dislikes being alone? (I don't mean relationship-wise, but in day-to-day life). Have you ever lived alone as an adult? It's a big adjustment (I know you're not living alone now as you have dd with you) but it can be a liberating one.

I know I will be told off for encouraging game playing, but I would go out so your ex can't bring your dd back early just because the match is on. He hasn't specifically requested an earlier drop off, I take it?

cleef15 Sun 24-Jun-12 17:29:21

Sky you are doing so well. To have your own business is brilliant be proud of yourself. You can make it as big as you want now as all the income will be yours and your daughters. I'm in same position as you but I don't have any family around to babysit so every week I invite a different friend round on a Thursday night for pizza and wine. Means I get some social life. Friends round for a lunch BBQ is doable too just have plenty of drink available. Today I had to change four lightbulbs and get plumber round for leaking washing machine. You can do it. It is hard but you are a tough woman with her own business. Go girl!!

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 17:34:23

No, I told him last week to bring her back at 6.30 from now on but he never replied. So if he doesnt then I will have to say it again tonight. He was bringing her back too late for bedtime.

I lived on my own for about 2.5 years before my H moved in but i did get lonely then and used to go to the pub every Friday and Saturday night just for company. And I had friends then who would come round during the week etc but ten years on we are all either married with kids or living elsewhere. I'm not the sort of girl who cant be without a boyfriend, I spent years in my own between relationships but I do get lonely.

I should have gone out somewhere today but stated home intending to work then did nothing bar watch tv feeling tired ! Hopeless!

I did think my H was a wonderful kind lovely man but that man seems to have gone. I think he is feeling bad for what he's done, hence him wanting me to be able to talk to him etc. but I'm not there yet. I don't like to hold grudges as I've seen my mum being consumed by bitterness over things that were said and done years ago and I have never been like that but at the moment it's too raw to be able to let it go and move on.

I know I am so much stronger than I was. I always dip again at the weekend...

Midwife99 Sun 24-Jun-12 18:21:15

Yes it is possible to build a life on your own. I've done it before & can do it again. Can't face all that dating agin though!! confused

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 18:39:18

I can't face the thought of dating either.. Never really done that, my last couple of relationships just developed from first meeting and we were together all the time. I've never been out on loads of dates with different people , which my friend says Internet dating is all about. I understand that because you are not going to like everybody you go out with but it seems like such a lot of hassle. But I also know that I'm not likely to meet someone at the local pub..... (although I did meet H there lol).

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 18:40:12

Twunt is late too, I said 6.30....

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 19:06:36

STILL not back!

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 19:37:56

7.15 he got back.... He obviously completely ignored my text last week saying seeing as you can't be in time for 7 you can bring her back for 6.30.....

I will bring it back to 6pm in September when she is at school full time. Hopefully he will be having her overnight by then so it won't be a problem to get her back earlier...

tribpot Sun 24-Jun-12 19:38:32

God skye, what a complete FUCKWIT! Has he brought her back at 7:30 as you originally agreed?

tribpot Sun 24-Jun-12 19:42:28

Sorry, cross-posted. Isn't he deliberately bringing her back 15 mins 'late' (from your original agreement) every single time?

I would put it down in writing again that you wish for her to be returned by 6 at the latest in order that she can properly wind down before bed and pre-school, could he please confirm via email that he has received this request.

skyebluesapphire Sun 24-Jun-12 20:34:17

well, 7pm was the original time, I moved it from 5.30pm on the grounds that he brought her back after tea, and that gave me at least half an hour with her before bedtime. But he is bringing her back later each week, so last week I said 6.30pm from now on, which he has totally ignored......

I will see what happens next week, then send him a strongly worded email saying that it has to be 6.30pm from now on and 6pm from the beginning of September. and ask for a response......

Its now 8.30pm and she is in her bedroom throwing a wobbly because her toys wont do what she wants them to do......

Mumsyblouse Mon 25-Jun-12 09:13:41

Skye, I just wanted to say that when you are on your own a lot and doing all of the childcare/working/cleaning, you will be tired. I find by Sunday, I'm exhausted and doing even a small amount of work is too much. I would switch off one day a week, your one day without her, and try to relax/phone friends/catch up on stuff. There's an art to pacing yourself when most of the responsibility falls on you.

skyebluesapphire Mon 25-Jun-12 18:44:27

so I worked this morning, came home, went to a school meeting about daughter starting in September (uniform and all that stuff!), came home and sorted out all the paperwork that I need to take to the solicitors tomorrow for Form E. Have been putting it off, but finally copied everything. have also emailed my financial advisors with details of my income in regards to getting a mortgage in my own name.... I feel this is the best option, as it means that he will definitely be off the deeds then. Otherwise he may have to stay on the mortgage but sign a deed of transfer, but with his potential debt probs, it would be best to get him off now. Also, if they would give me enough money, I could pay him off now too depending on what he will take. That would be a good feeling too, as there would be no further connection with him (other than DD obviously). On the other hand part of me thinks that making him wait 14 years for the money would be great :-)

I dont have 12 months bank statements though, is that likely to be a problem? I can only go back 3 months online. I could probably order copies but will probably have to pay for them....

skyebluesapphire Mon 25-Jun-12 18:47:28

and another question for all you divorcees out there.... when you are divorced, if you keep your husbands name - do you stay as Mrs or do you become a Ms or a Miss? Im confused! I would dump husbands name, but think better to keep, certainly while daughter still young, so we have the same name. Plus I used my name in my business name, so complicated to change everything, plus its better than my maiden name....

I think Mrs should only be to use if you are married, not once you are divorced, but Miss indicates never married? Ms seems the one to use, but my (daft) friend said that would mean Im "batting for the other side" - her words not mine before you all shoot me!

So what title do you use?

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Mon 25-Jun-12 18:59:52

I'm keeping 'Mrs'. It's annoying that mens' titles don't indicate what their marital status is.

DoingItForMyself Mon 25-Jun-12 19:05:24

I'll probably go with Ms as the idea of being defined as his wife forevermore will kill me, but I too want the same name as my DCs.

mummytime Mon 25-Jun-12 19:26:23

I'd complain if you really can't go back more than 3 months online, there maybe a very complex way of going back further. My bank makes you enter dates.

Midwife99 Mon 25-Jun-12 19:32:30

I've always been a Mrs. I feel better as a mummy being addressed as mrs child's surname!

DoingItForMyself Mon 25-Jun-12 20:24:45

You're lucky your school manage that - our teachers usually call out "X's mummy" which is quite sweet I suppose and saves any confusion if parents aren't called the same name.

skyebluesapphire Mon 25-Jun-12 20:51:50

i think im inclined to agree really, I think that to stay as Mrs is probably the thing to do, it just seems odd though as I wont be married any more :-(

Just having another wobbly five minutes, looked at some old photos. He wasnt unhappy for years, I know he wasnt. There are some lovely photos of me and him together and with DD, all happy and laughing. Its just a lie he told to be able to walk away from us.

I know it, I keep telling myself not to fall for his bullshit excuses. I know he wasnt unhappy until he started talking to OW and getting texts saying "oh you're so sweet" blah blah blah. Of course he thinks she's fucking wonderful, I never told him that did I?!

izzyizin Mon 25-Jun-12 21:30:17

You wanted him to bring your dd back earlier than 7.30pm for good reason but sending a text saying seeing as you can't be in time for 7 you can bring her back for 6.30 implies that your only intent is to punish him for his previous tardiness by curtailing the time he has with his dd.

If he doesn't have his own place by the time you you renegotiate his contact to take account of dd's schooling, I would suggest you avoid any mention of his previous failing to adhere to dd's return time.

skyebluesapphire Mon 25-Jun-12 21:40:22

yes, maybe I should have worded it better.... When I email him about bringing her back at 6pm from September onwards, I will refer solely to the fact that she is starting school and cant be late to bed.

I will also suggest that when he is able to have her overnight, he will be gaining extra time with her, so bringing her back at 6pm wont be cutting the time short.

But if he is late again next week, then i shall say, please bring her back at 7pm as agreed for her benefit.

Midwife99 Tue 26-Jun-12 09:41:37

I think 6 o'clock return is late enough for a 4 year old all year round! My 8 year old comes home at 6pm from her Dad's - she has a bath & hair wash & needs to get ready for school in the morning.

skyebluesapphire Tue 26-Jun-12 10:42:03

yes Midwife you are right. i will let it go for now as there is only 3 weeks left of term so I dont mind about her bedtime during the holidays, but I will tell him 6pm from September onwards, due to school. If he gets his arse in gear and finds his own place, he can pick her up Saturday afternoon sometimes, then he will have her all day Sunday and part of Saturday so he will have much more time with her.

I think that every other weekend is too long to go between seeing him at her age, as a week to her seems a long time, so a fortnight would be unbearable for her, so was going to suggest that for now he has her every Sunday and one whole weekend a month? Then as she grows older, she can stay with him every other weekend which is what my friends kids all seem to do. Maybe the third weekend in every month

skyebluesapphire Tue 26-Jun-12 15:50:41

Feeling sad, sat in the solicitors office about to take the next step in ending my marriage. I could be divorced in six weeks, but no doubt it will take longer because of all the financial stuff.

So so very sad. What happened to my loving kind husband that made it come to this?... I guess I will never know what truly went on in his head as he will never be honest with me.

He is such a fool.

Midwife99 Tue 26-Jun-12 16:21:46

I know what you mean - we feel so powerless atm

DoingItForMyself Tue 26-Jun-12 17:13:39

"I guess I will never know what truly went on in his head as he will never be honest with me. "

The saddest thing is, he will never be honest with himself either, because that would require a level of humility that these blokes seem to be lacking.

For me it helps to think that the 'loving kind husband' only ever existed in my mind, or if he did ever exist he has since died and will never come back. It sounds morbid, but actually the feeling of grief that I have fits with that idea and it stops me from wondering what might have been (at least in my more rational moments!)

When I look at him now I feel no love or affection, just irritation and anger, so that can't be the loving man I once knew. Its almost like one of those alien movies where someone has taken over the body of the person you used to know but you realise they're not really in there.

skyebluesapphire Tue 26-Jun-12 18:36:01

Doingit- very true words, that's how I feel too, that the man I loved no longer exists. That is how different he seems to me now.

Well. The decree nisi is signed, firm E is done, probably be a month before I hear anything solicitor said. Then we wait for him to ask for what he wants and negotiate from there. Why oh why did I put the house in joint names when I'd bought a third outright?!

Never again!!

Xales Tue 26-Jun-12 18:58:40

Look after yourself the next few days.

I know you were down over the weekend with this coming up and it is perfectly understandable. You need to mourn for the death of your marriage and in a way the death of the man you thought existed.

Sofa, a movie and icecream/wine whatever you need.


skyebluesapphire Tue 26-Jun-12 21:23:28

Just had another cry. Can't help myself at the moment. Thinking of all the concerts we used to go to together, the holidays, all the things we used to do together, everything that's gone now. I'm sat here crying and he's probably sat having a jolly time with his friends.

Need to get a grip. I have my holiday to look forward to, although I know it will be hard, it will be the first time and the next time will be easier. I've got lots of stuff to look forward to in July.

And most importantly of all, I have my daughter, I see her every day and she loves me more than ever before and we are so close now. She still tells everybody she meets that daddy has gone to live somewhere else, which is hard for me, but at least I have her. Seeing your daughter for 11 hours a week does not make you a great father.....

I hate him. I really do.

Midwife99 Tue 26-Jun-12 21:53:28

If its any consolation I feel exactly the same tonight without the hate part. I feel really bloody lost & sad too sad

DoingItForMyself Tue 26-Jun-12 22:39:48

Me too. sad (with the hate part, although actually he's more like a stranger that I've taken a sudden dislike to)

Only consolation is that we rarely did anything nice to remember... is that a good thing?!

skyebluesapphire Tue 26-Jun-12 22:50:11

I'm sorry we have to go through all this shit... What goes around comes around, just remember that. They will get it back tenfold one day... ..

I've just spent an hour on the phone to my mum who rang to see how i got on today. I'm feeling a bit better now.

I've got a lot to be thankful for. Tomorrow is the funeral of the 21 year old lad who died suddenly a couple of weeks ago. I saw his sister today and she looked terrible. I feel so sorry for them. My problems are nothing compared to theirs.

DoingItForMyself Tue 26-Jun-12 23:04:36

That's something I said to DS1 earlier actually. I was on the brink of splitting with H last year, had told him not to come home at the weekend as he was working away and had been a total wanker the previous weekend (didn't say wanker to DS tho!).

Then I heard that DS2's friend (aged 6) had lost his dad to a brain tumour that week and I thought, this puts my problems in perspective. Its not fair to put the DCs through all this, we should try again to sort it out.

I said to DS earlier, things may be difficult for us, but no-one has died, we're all healthy and we have each other. That's a lot to be thankful for.

skyebluesapphire Wed 27-Jun-12 21:47:56

So STBXH text today as usual, but said I have to go to London, so wont be back in time today, can I see DD tomorrow after 1pm. I text back no shes at my mums from 12pm so I can work. So then he said I could see her from 9.30 to 10.45am (wow, whooppee doo, a whole 1.25 hours!!). so I text back fine.

Then I had second thoughts and text him back and said you can have her all day from 9.30am til 6.30pm as I wont be home from work til then and he text back ok, thats great, thanks.

(He has got dentist at 9.00 am, then work locally at 11am, but he can take DD with him as its only for an hour).

I feel like I have been nice to him by saying he can have her all day and it does help me work and saves my mum having her two days running.

But now i feel bad in myself because Ive been nice to him and I dont want to, if that makes sense? although the texts were all brief and to the point with no niceties, I feel like Ive done him a favour and I dont want to!

Contrary I know?!

Midwife99 Wed 27-Jun-12 22:01:11

Well it's not a favour for him, it's for DD & to give your mum a break. Think of it that way!

izzyizin Wed 27-Jun-12 22:04:45

You haven't done him a favour.

Your dd isn't a toy that you can choose to share or not; nor is she your exclusive possession.

In facilitating her regular/frequent contact with her df, you're acting in her best interests by ensuring that her needs are of paramount importance and take precedence over your disgruntled feelngs towards him.

skyebluesapphire Wed 27-Jun-12 22:16:34

I know you are right. It is all about DD not me and thats why I did it. She is very excited at the thought of seeing him tomorrow, but confused as I told her this morning that Sunday was 4 more sleeps away and now she is seeing him tomorrow! But she is happy so thats the main thing.

She drew me a picture tonight to make me happy. She said if I draw you these lovely pictures does it make you not sad any more and you wont cry now :-( made me want to cry........

I just felt like I had been nice to him and didnt like the feeling any more! lol.

It is an extra day as he usually only has her for 2 hours on a Wednesday after preschool if he can make it (his choice to bring her back at 5.30pm, not mine).

skyebluesapphire Thu 28-Jun-12 20:24:02

So he took DD all day which allowed me to do all the housework this morning and work this afternoon. She has had fun and been to his place and the park.

I saw a friend this morning who I haven't seen for a few weeks and she commented on how much stronger I am now and how well I am dealing with all of this. Then the lady from the children's centre rang who I haven't spoken to for a month and after chatting for a while she said the same. She remInded me again that I did everything I could, and can hold my head up high and that I am a good person who deserves better.

I've got my second counselling session tomorrow, let's see what she comes out with....

skyebluesapphire Thu 28-Jun-12 22:12:57

Grrr! Stop me texting H back and telling him to fuck off prick. Why is he so stupid? Why oh why can't he just disappear into a large black hole and never come out!

Just sent a text at 10pm saying that when he had DD today he took her to the park which is next to toddlers snd they invited her in for fruit and so he went in with her! Have texted my closest friends and none of them were there today so don't know what happened.

Why text me at this tIme of night to tell me something so fucking pointless! It's really bad timing as I was just sat here crying my eyes out ! (really shouldnt have read that thread 10 reasons why you love your husband) sad

So much for being strong ...... Aargh!!!!!!!!!

izzyizin Thu 28-Jun-12 22:20:20

It isn't about what she comes out with... it's about what you come out with and the insights you gain from examining your innermost thoughts and beliefs in no-holds barred confessional of a counselling session.

After the report of your first session, it seemed to me that you were looking to the counsellor to validate you by giving her unconditional approval of the way in which you've dealt with the breakdown of your marriage, and that you took exception to anything she said that you perceived as criticism of your actions/behaviour.

This time I hope you'll listen with more than your ears so that you can hear whether what you say resonates with your inner beliefs or whether there's the odd dud note that means you need to take a closer look at either your words or your beliefs, or both.

If you regard counselling as a talking shop where you get patted on the head for having done/said everything right, you'll be in danger of impeding your personal growth.

Use friends/relatives/total strangers to give you any approval you crave and use your counselling sessions to explore those thoughts and beliefs that you may be reluctant to voice in public.

keepcalmandeatcupcakes Thu 28-Jun-12 22:25:02

He's just trying to get a response. Think of it as a child whining for attention. Totally pointless, and probably rather bored. Let him send pointless texts, and enjoy the fact you can delete every single one of them while he's on his own, and you and your daughter are tucked up in bed , relaxed and happy.

skyebluesapphire Thu 28-Jun-12 22:41:03

Izzy, I don't want her approval but also I don't want her disapproval of my decision to divorce which is what she did- why on wary are you doing that, you are trying to punish him, what if he changes his mind, you have backed him into a corner-

And when I said that OW was mentioned on petition she said- so now you are affecting their life too, what do you think that will do to them and their marriage-

She made me feel bad for saying that the contact was wrong and putting that on the petition and she made me feel bad for divorcing him. I understand that she needs to challenge my controlling behaviour and that I made my H feel bad when I didn't want him to go to watch football. Yes I know I must have upset him by not letting him do what he wanted but i really didn't expect him to leave me because I said no!

I wanted counselling to stop me feeling like a terrible person because if everything he wrote in his letter about why he had to leave me. So far the counsellor seems to agree with him....

izzyizin Fri 29-Jun-12 05:19:04

I doubt that your counsellor was quite as intentionally adversarial as you're claiming her to have been, but that's by the by.

You've said I wanted counselling to stop me feeling like a terrible person because of everything he wrote in his letter about why he had to leave me.

If you're saying that one letter from a lying cheating deceiving twat of an h, who will inevitably seek to make you out as the villain of the piece to minimise his own failings, has had the power to make you feel 'like a terrible person' you need to look at why it's caused you to feel this way.

Is it because you believe that there's some truth to the content of this letter? Is it because you doubt yourself and/or have some regret about the actions you have taken, or the way you've behaved, since he left?
Does he have valid cause to accuse you of being controlling?

Unless you can say a resounding 'no' to the above questions, I would encourage you to explore these issues in some depth now so that you don't embark on any future relationship(s) handicapped by an erroneous notion that you are a 'controlling' woman - others may seek to label us but we can choose not wear their tags.

What I'm hoping to make you aware of is that in order to move on with confidence, you need to be confident that you've taken the most appropriate action for the you that you are at this period in your life.

Once you've reached this accomodation with yourself, and are at peace with your actions, you will be less likely to revist the past or allow it to mar your present/future with thoughts of regret or 'if onlys' at what might have been if you'd taken a different tack.

It's understandable that you've been in bits mentally. He caused the bottom to drop out of your world. You've been emotionally fragmented; wrung out and hung out to dry by the impact of his behaviour, and you shouldn't lose of sight of the fact that his actions have caused your reactions.

Nor should you discount the possibility that in, order to exorcise any ghosts that may haunt you in the future, it may be necessary for your counsellor to play devil's advocate on occasion in order to help you become all that you can be.

Some may take the view that you've rushed to divorce; I take the view that you if you hadn't acted when you did, you'd have run the risk of him petitioning to divorce you with attendant legal fees had you felt compelled to contest his version of events - and, given that his account would be unlikely to tally with yours, I suspect that your present relatively modest lawyer's bill had the potential to quadruple and more.

Practial expediency can, of necessity, take precedence over emotional concerns. It's a measure of our inner strength, our purpose of mind, that we recognise this salient fact and act accordingly.

There's no need for you to look to others for validation when you're more than capable of validating yourself, skye.

As for that other thread, a very large wine goes to the first to respond with 'he fell under a bus and spared me a stretch in Holloway' grin

skyebluesapphire Fri 29-Jun-12 10:35:36

Thanks izzy. Session much more productive today. She understands why I am divorcing him and agrees. We talked about a lot today and we are going to talk about stuff next time to stop me taking baggage into future relationships. She is a lovely person and I got on well with her today and she made me realise that what happened isn't my fault.

izzyizin Fri 29-Jun-12 18:29:44

I'm encouraged to learn your session went well and I hope you will be able to offload a lot of unnecessary excess baggage and leave it in the left luggage locker of future counselling sessions.

I also hope you come to the realisation that there's little to be gained from you embarking on a mission of 'making friends and influencing' those you talk to about your marital breakdown.

Some folk who've been where you are now will 'get it'; empathetic souls will 'get it', and those who don't 'get it' will get it when/if it happens to them.

That being the case, there's no reason and no need for you to be hypersensitive to what you may perceive as criticism of decisions you've made/are making in relation to your marriage, or to become hostile towards those who may attempt to advocate for him.

Again in relation to the other thread which, IMO, is more suited to 'Chat' than this board, I am giving serious consideration to changing my name and claiming my reward of a very large wine

In fact, by way of a pre-emptive strike I intend to award myself a wine as soon as I've clicked 'post message'. Watch that space grin

skyebluesapphire Fri 29-Jun-12 18:42:24

I put a quick post on earlier but forgot to say that the counsellor said that last time she felt that she reacted in that way as if it was her daughter she was dealing with and gave motherly advice not to rush into divorce rather than professional detachment. She understood today that I am divorcing him for financial security and to get it all over with now rather than wait around for years for him to get round to it. I made her see that there was no chance of reconciliation and that it is not helping me for her to tell me that we could still work things out. She could see that I did everything I could to repair the marriage but he had already emotionally detached from me.

We discussed my need to be in control of my life and that he is the sort of person who is drawn to somebody strong who will look after him and organise him but at some point he started to resent that.

She also warned me that when he is living on his own and the reality of his new lonely life hits him, or if the contact with OW comes to an end, that he may well get in touch and suddenly decide that he does love me after all....

She asked if I was happy with her and i said that I was happy with her , I did feel that in the first session she didn't understand that my marriage is over but she does now and we are now working together on from there.

Next week we are going to look at the eight steps of a relationship. I think we are going to get on fine now.

mummytime Fri 29-Jun-12 19:27:21

That sounds really encouraging, and she sounds as if she has really reflected what she said last week, which is great for her as a trainee counsellor. It does sound far more productive this week.

DoingItForMyself Fri 29-Jun-12 19:30:11

that sounds really encouraging Skye, good work.

DoingItForMyself Fri 29-Jun-12 19:30:23


skyebluesapphire Sat 30-Jun-12 18:58:49

Another shit Saturday night on my own sad . Was meant to be going to a local duck race but my friend cancelled on me and I don't want to go on my own.. Was then going to go round another friend's with a bottle of wine and DD but she cancelled on me too sad . Can't go out as have to look after DD.

Will try and find a decent film to watch and drink the bottle of wine on my own grin . At least I've got something planned for next weekend... Another boring day ahead of me tomorrow too. I have to get some work done! Or I won't have any money!

Midwife99 Sat 30-Jun-12 21:52:09

Yeah same here honey plus all 4 of my kids are elsewhere! We will gradually find things to make us feel happy again honey

DoingItForMyself Sat 30-Jun-12 22:02:00

I spent my first kid-free night last week with my head in the loo being ill!

Hoping this one will be a better night - all 3 going to dad's tomorrow night and I'm going for tapas with a lovely mate - only one of the DCs wants to stay for a second night on Monday and DS2 doesn't really want to go at all, as he says he's a bit tired and would rather have a normal day at home sad

I do feel secretly a bit pleased that they're not all totally excited about going even after only a week (DD who's 5 said that one night was enough as she'd miss me too much smile, but then I feel guilty for them and for H - I know I should be happy when they all get to spend time together (+ if his tiny house is causing an issue, he'll want a bigger place soon so I'll get less £!)

Saffysmum Sat 30-Jun-12 22:09:20

Skye - you need to go easy on yourself. Your divorce won't be in six weeks, love, I doubt it'll be six months. I filed for divorce early May last year, and I still have a couple of months to go at least. It takes a long time, the financial stuff is a nightmare. I spent yet another morning at the solicitors yesterday, filing in and signing yet more paperwork. It gets you down, it's a drain and depressing. All the advice I can give you is to see it as you would a business transaction - you spend so much time per week thinking/dealing with it, then you file it away, and forget about it. Otherwise it will drag you down. I have managed to compartmentalise my divorce this way, because I'd have gone mad otherwise. See each development as a step in a long process to a happier life.

The only other thing I can say to help you, from experience, is please go no contact. When I say this, I mean I understand you have to have contact regarding little one, but that's all. My ex would like more contact with me, but I only have the minimum I have to with him, and it is only about the kids, and only then when absolutely necessary. He sent me a text message on my birthday, I ignored it. I go out if he comes around to see the kids. I don't talk to the kids about him, I listen if they talk about him, but am very detached. It's how I cope.

Focus on yourself, and try and take every day as it comes. I don't think about tomorrow, just today. And it works a treat.

DoingItForMyself Sat 30-Jun-12 22:16:53

Saffysmum, is there a particular reason you're no contact with him? I feel like that's what I need to be able to deal with this, but stbxh doesn't seem to get it and wants to be all matey with me, like we're still together, just living in different houses! How do you manage no contact without seeming to be a bitch about it? (I know that's what he'll think, or that I'm still too in love with him to move on hmm )

Midwife99 Sat 30-Jun-12 22:18:18

Good advice Saffysmum

skyebluesapphire Sat 30-Jun-12 22:25:16

Thanks everybody. Halfway through the bottle now smile Saffysmun , yes I realise now it won't be that quick, solicitor said at last meeting you can get divorced six weeks after nisi filed, but then said at latest meeting it will be a month before it is filed. And of course we have to sort out mortgage and hat ex off deeds before file absolute, but it could all be finalised by Christmas smile sad

Although I am strong in a way and getting used to being on my own, I'm still scared of the future, scared of being on my own. I managed to change the hall lightbulb today lol, nearly brained myself when I pulled the glass lampshade off though!

And I boxed up some brand new curtains and bedding that we never used plus spare towels, glasses, pillows etc - and done a note saying this stuff is for your new place when you get it, if you don't want it please take it to one of the many charity shops that are on your doorstep and within easy reach! I just want it all out of my way lol.

I have no contact with STBXH apart from about DD. anything else I ignore. I was still doing his payroll for his one employee , (i gave him all his other accounts stuff weeks ago) but he has a new accountant, so she will do that from now on. He text to say she would be in touch and I just text back businesslike to say I would forward all necessary info to her and from now on we only need contact about DD which is as it should be now we are divorcing.

Saffysmum Sat 30-Jun-12 22:31:51

Doingit, you have to put yourself first. I didn't want my marriage to end, but when my husband of 22 years told me he no longer loved me (after years of being very unhappy), I realised that it was time to separate. He had stopped loving me before I stopped loving him, so I had to play catch up. After I threw him out (because I knew he was seeing someone else, even though he denied it), I filed for divorce because I needed to take control. I also knew that I would only come to terms with the awful rejection, was to have no contact with him. He has always wanted us to remain friends. Well, I think my definition of friends is different to his; because friends don't do what he's done. I think when men say they want to still be friends, they don't; they just want an easy life, they don't want confrontation, they want to paper over the cracks.

I don't care what he thinks about me, going no contact with him. I no longer love him, because having time apart has made me step outside the situation and see it as it is. He's not a nice person. Perhaps he never was. Perhaps I made a lot of excuses for him, and I even enabled his neediness. I certainly stoked that massive ego. If I still had contact with him, the wounds would have never healed.

After what he did, the pain he caused me and the kids - I have to put myself first because then I can focus on being the best mum I can be. And that means having nothing to do with him. I can honestly say if it wasn't for the kids, I would happily never lay eyes on him, or speak to him again.

It worries me that you worry about what your STBX will think of you if you have no contact, it implies that you still care about his opinion of you. All you need to care about is yourself, and keeping strong. X

skyebluesapphire Sat 30-Jun-12 22:33:24

Doingit - I manage no contact by not seeing him. When I see husbands van go past, I wait for him to turn round and stop then when I hear his door open I open my front door, kiss DD goodbye tell her to have a lovely day and close the door. All her stuff is outside the door waiting. I go the same when she comes back,

If he text me midweek about seeing DD I reply as briefly as I can! YES NO FINE etc. ! And I ignore any texts that aren't about her.

skyebluesapphire Sat 30-Jun-12 22:38:04

Safftsmum - I could have written your post (apart from being married for 22 years) the rest if it could have written by myself to describe my situation. I'm still working on the not loving him bit though.... But I keep Looking at a picture of him and reminding myself about his big head and his lack of hair and his part denture and his big tummy and telling myself he is pig ugly lol.

DoingItForMyself Sun 01-Jul-12 11:46:11

grin skye! I also look at stbxh now and wonder how I used to find him attractive, but actually for a long time, I didn't really. He became ugly to me when I first realised how little I meant to him (probably about 5 years ago). Now he's lost a bit of weight he thinks he's the bees knees, but to me he just looks older and more 'drawn'.

Saffysmum, I do worry what he thinks of me because I know he will judge me as a mum if I don't make every effort to be friendly and lovely for the DCs. He thinks that by pretending its all hunky dory they will have less pain, whereas to me, its just confusing to them if they don't understand what went wrong and why we ended up here.

On Friday DS2 asked if Daddy was home yet, on the way back from school! Its like nothing has really changed (they didn't see much of him, so having him live elsewhere for 10 days hasn't made any difference!!).

H's family keep saying how lovely it will be if we are getting on well enough for me to come to a family party in a few weeks. Initially I thought I could, but now the idea of travelling for 2 hours with him in the car and spending a day playing happy families after what he's done is making me feel really uncomfortable. (I've told them he was emotionally abusive, with examples, but they're glossing over that)

Saffysmum Sun 01-Jul-12 13:01:38

Doingit: Sod his family. Sorry to be blunt, but what they want is to gloss over the pain, and for things to have as little impact as possible. Tough. This isn't about them, it's about their son taking the consequences of his actions. You don't need to do anything at all to make their coping with this any easier. Let him placate them. They may well make excuses for him, let them.

I don't know how old your kids are; mine were all teenagers (youngest 13, eldest 17) when I binned twunt. So it was easy for me to go no contact, because we didn't have to do family things together. It was YS birthday a couple of weeks following the split and he wanted his dad to come to a pre-arranged birthday treat. I just refused, because it would have been very confusing for YS (he took it the hardest at the time), and bloody impossible for me. I didn't give a stuff about how ex felt about missing his son's birthday - that was the price he paid for throwing his family away. We had a lovely family time without him, and his dad took him out the following day for dinner.

Don't worry about how he will judge you as a mum. You can be a friendly, lovely mum to your kids. He has no right to comment on your parenting technique or skills - you're now the main carer, and if anything like me, it's not a role you ever thought you'd be doing on your own, and it's bloody scary. But you will manage and I bet you'll form closer relationships with your kids too - I know I did. Your kids need to see a strong independent woman, who has clear boundaries regarding how much she will take. They will respect this, and you will respect yourself. It will make you stronger, and set them brilliant standards and goals for the future.

Focus on yourself, and only do what you feel comfortable with. Their your kids, you are the main carer, you are their rock and stability. Don't compromise any of that because he might not think well of you. He's not worth worrying about. He threw away the right to have a say in anything when he let you all down.

skyebluesapphire Sun 01-Jul-12 13:25:07

Saffysmum, very good advice there for Doingit. My H tried to be friendly. When he first walked out he said he would come back and mow the lawn and help do stuff around the house and we could have family days out in a few months :-/ then when he was coming round he had the audacity to say I could be a bit happier to see him as i always looked so miserable! And I tried to be happy to see him in the hope of working things out even though he broke my heart by walking out on us!

Whilst i hoped we could still reconcile he was having tea twice a week and putting DD to bed. When he finally turned on me all of that stopped as I can't spend time with him after the way he just walked out in us. And it was too confusing for DD. now that she sees him drive away she doesn't expect him to be here in the morning. I certainly wouldn't go to a family party with him, (although it is nice that your X's family want you to go ).

We must all do what we feel is right for ourselves and our own family and it's certainly not easy..

DoingItForMyself Sun 01-Jul-12 15:34:28

Thanks girls. Its just hard knowing where to draw the line for me, everything has been so intermingled for so long that I don't know where I start and he stops. I need to sort out my business arrangements, so I still need him to give me passwords and show me how to transfer the money and download the order info etc. so I suppose I don't want to be totally 'off' with him in case he decides not to help me.

All the old bollocks about how he can come and help if there's a big spider etc - WTF was that about?! We managed when he was away for weeks at a time, or if he was at work. What does he think, the spiders only come out when he's here? I've let him think I need him for too long and I need to show him that I don't.

It is confusing for them Skye. Mine are 5, 7 & 12 so very different levels of understanding about what this all means. The fact that he's stayed away before is quite helpful for them coping but is also probably confusing as they may think this is only temporary too, that staying with him now is just like when we went to visit him before (but without me!).

I can't bear to look at his stupid shiny head and his dopey face when he comes to get them, so I know I'm still so angry with him. I agree that no eye contact is easier, but I don't want him to see me as miserable without him. I just want to feel nothing - maybe that's why I want to pretend it doesn't matter and we're just friends, as that way he wouldn't have any of my anger/emotions.

DoingItForMyself Sun 01-Jul-12 15:39:33

The other thing that's bothering me is that I'm still living by H's rules and getting annoyed by things like DCs leaving a mess.

DS1 has left a clean flannel on the floor of the shower the last 3 times he's had one, so the first time I picked it up and wrung it out, hung it on the towel rail, the second time the same thing, then today I go in and there's yet another soggy flannel on the floor of the shower and I started to feel like H.

I could feel the anger, 'the disrespect', DS not listening or doing what he's told etc rising up in me. I know its just a flannel, but for so long its been a source of irritation and arguments that its difficult to switch that off. I'm getting wound up about the mess round the house, when before I didn't really care and it was H who got annoyed with them.

Its like I've removed him from the situation but now I'm as bad as he was sad

skyebluesapphire Sun 01-Jul-12 15:44:29

Yes I've been told that indifference is what to aim for and I'm working on that. I haven't seen him for at least a month now and dd is so excited to see him that she runs off without noticing that I haven't gone out.

I agree if you need his help with business you need to stay friendly for now. Once you have got e erything you need then cut the contact.

Your kids are similar age to my neighbours three, 4 8 and 12. The 12 year old prefers to spend time with mum and new man, the younger two love to see their daddy they know he lives elsewhere they go there to stay, they miss him and still think he might go home.

My DD says things like " that's when daddy was still here" and talks about how we can all live together in daddy's new house.

I asked her earlier if she was daddy's girl of mummy's girl , an old joke as she always said daddy's girl, today she said " I'm daddy girl at the weekend but I'm mummy's girl in the weekday ...... It shows she is starting to transfer more to me . They were very close previously.

skyebluesapphire Sun 01-Jul-12 15:47:05

It's probably normal to be like that now as you are the only person there now to pick up the mess etc. I'm very untidy but now it's only me doing everything I find myself making DD pick up all her toys whereas before I wasn't bothered !

DoingItForMyself Sun 01-Jul-12 15:52:19

"I'm daddy's girl at the weekend but I'm mummy's girl in the weekday " smile bless her!

skyebluesapphire Sun 01-Jul-12 20:26:50

Arsehole was late again, 7.15.

Have emailed him about it but an hour later still no response snd I asked him for confirmation. I said that he hasn't replied to previous email about her , that all this is for her benefit, he needs to let me know if he can have her in the holidays, and that come September, on professional advice, she needs to be home at 6pm as she is starting school and cannot start the week tired.

DD said that OW came in the van with them to bring her home tonight.. I asked DD where was her H and she said busy.. Why would she need to come along? Why not stay hOme with her H? A chance to be alone for an hour after my H and DD have been there all day?!

I put more stuff outside for him, some brand new bedding and curtains. Plus some old pillows towels and bedding. I put a note on it saying if you don't want it then take it to one of the many charity shops on your doorstep!

skyebluesapphire Sun 01-Jul-12 22:01:57

Stupid fuckIng arsehole! I hate him I really really do!

He just replied saying that it's not deliberate she takes long time eating her tea. He said that we ought to speak as DD must wonder why we don't.

The he says he is unavailable for a week in September, Tuesday to Tuesday, so he must be going on holiday?? This is the man who told me that work must come first and that he didn't have the time or mOney to go on holiday! It was one of the reasons why we now wanted different things out of life!! Because I like holidays and he doesn't ?! Fucking knobhead.! I'm so angry!

I couldn't help myself I emailed him back saying the above without the swearing, and also that I have no desire to speak to him as I despise him as a person and that I will never ever forgive him for walking out on his daughter.

DoingItForMyself Sun 01-Jul-12 22:28:10

Aw sweetie, its so hard to stay detached isn't it. You can't remain calm and aloof with someone who has so royally fucked you over.

My H has also booked 2 weeks hols this summer, despite never wanting family holidays before and has said he will try and book some weekends off so the DCs can stay longer with him (he could never do this when we were together!).

Its like they just want to prove that every bad word we said about them was a lie - but you know its not. He's twisting things so that he looks like the good guy, even down to wanting to talk nicely to each other, just so you don't give the game away that you don't like him.... grrrrrr! What a tosser!

skyebluesapphire Sun 01-Jul-12 23:07:02

I know. I just rang my mum and said to her, his email is all, I want to be reasonable and we need to talk for DD's sake and Im happy to communicate with you, it all makes him look like Mr Nice Guy! He said we need to work together for DD's sake! I said that he chose to walk out on her and I am now bringing her up alone as he chose to be a part time dad! He said his solicitor has told him that he has equal rights over DD.

I can only presume that he is going on holiday with OW and her H, her mum and dad and her best friend..... as that is the group that was going away together and I even joked with him after he left , that he wouldnt be going now would he? and he laughed and said dont be silly.

He stated it was one of the reasons that we wanted different things out of life, that I was obsessed with holidays (we went on 2 cheap caravan breaks a year). He said that he needed to concentrate on his business, that he couldnt afford a holiday! He said that he cant commit to having DD in the summer holidays due to his work. I said in my email back that I hoped that he would want to spend time with DD during the 6 weeks holidays and that if he can take time off to holiday with his friends, then he can take time off to spend with DD! I said that my work needs to be arranged in advance and that once I have made childcare arrangements, then he will not be able to see her at short notice if he just happens to be available.

and now he is going away for a week, must be abroad, if its Tuesday to Tuesday. What about his flat hunting? What about the deposit/rent for that? He is fucking deluded, living in cloud cuckoo land.

I hope he wakes up and falls out the fucking cloud soon, i really do. I would have sat and cried over this a few weeks ago, now it just makes me mad to think of everything he said and then he does this! Just more proof to me that most of what he said was lies and excuses just to get away!

I told him in the email that I am yet to come across one person who thinks that what he has done is acceptable!

Apologies for all the swearing but I am mad!

So much for detaching, I blew that big time by replying to the stupid fucking email, but I couldnt help it!

Midwife99 Sun 01-Jul-12 23:10:10

Yeah you & me too tonight! We must detach from these twunts. I was all calm this afternoon & now my nerves are frazzled & can't sleep! angry

skyebluesapphire Sun 01-Jul-12 23:12:49

I feel all AARRGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! Just been on the phone to my mum for an hour ranting about what a twunt he is!

At least I can see I have moved on!! Its not upsetting me like it would have a few weeks ago! Its another nail in the coffin of loving him! Another push to move on and realise what a twunt he is and how I am sooooo much better off without him!

izzyizin Mon 02-Jul-12 00:15:25

You could have easily helped it by replying to his email and NOT sending it.

Yet again you've played into his hands by giving him and the ow more to bond over - he'll be sobbing on her shoulder about how unreasonable you are, she'll be telling him he made the right decision in leaving you, and so the dance goes on.

I am yet to come across one person who thinks that what he has done is acceptable You've got to stop telling all and sundry what he's done with a view to getting them on your 'side'.

As you've observed and made reference to, your dd has been needlessly affected by hearing you pour scorn and opprobrium on her df and, tempting as it may be to bend the ears of others, for her sake you need to be selective about who you make privy to your private affairs - and, more importantly, when you confide in them.

FWIW he didn't leave dd - he left you and if he believes that others are judging him unfairly he may seek to redeem himself by seeking shared custody of dd which, apart from any other consideration, may seriously impact on financial issues such as child support.

It seems to me that if anyone's deluded about him getting his own flat it's you. He's got a cosy billet with his best mate and the ow; why should he want to change that arrangement?

You may think I'm being unduly harsh but you need to hear it, skye. Being incommunicado with the exception of contact arrangments for dd is your biggest weapon. Don't give the ow the satisfaction of being able to apply healing salve to the poor diddums wounds after you've given him a kicking.

And if his 'sponsorship' of the ow's netball team involves him donating good money to watch her prance around in a short skirt take a screenshot of the relevant fb page.

MsPavlichenko Mon 02-Jul-12 00:35:20

Been lurking again, I've said before, and through bitter experience, best to have no expectations him regarding your DD. He clearly loves her, and wants to spend time with her, but when it suits him.

Don't expect him to move into his own place/do overnights/take holidays etc. If he does good. If not, you'll be fine, and your DD won't know any difference.

skyebluesapphire Mon 02-Jul-12 08:35:02

I have calmed down this morning and accepted that it just proves what a lying twunt he is, using a raft of excuses to leave, most of which weren't true. He really threw it at me that I was obsessed with holidays a s he didn't want to go as the business had to come first.

What does annoy me though is that he is saying he can't commit to seeing DD in the holidays due to work but he can take a week off with them. Plus he's got no money... So no doubt it's all gone on the credit card. Yet another reason why I need to get him off the deeds to my house.... He used to laugh at how they go on holiday with her friend all the time.. Now he is joining their sad little group. We could never afford to go abroad but of course he can do what he wants now he is single..

If he wants to cry on OW shoulder good luck to him. If anything further develops there it will end in tears big time so let them carry on... Her H is so going to know everythIng once my finances are sorted, that I am sure of now!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 02-Jul-12 10:32:52

Completely agree with Izzy. Izzy's post may sound tough but it is extremely pertinent and should make you stop and think.

It's not at all surprising that you feel hurt, Skye, of course you would - anybody would - after what you've been through. But it's over. Your marriage is done and you're taking steps to bring it to a formal close. That is the end of YOUR relationship with a man who wasn't worthy of you. He is, however, from what you've posted - a decent father. He is committed to his daughter and you would be unkind - and very short-sighted - to do or say anything to put that in jeopardy. Please don't. Rant away here or anywhere safe out of possible earshot or consequence to your daughter. She does not need to hear or see you give way and it's your responsibility as a parent to make sure that she doesn't see/hear that. She needs to feel secure.

I can see that you're having difficulty detaching still... you can't understand why OW has 'the penny and the bun' and you think it's unfair that she has two adoring men paying attention to her. You're right, it is unfair but what she has is 1 x cheater and 1 x cuckold and more than that you do not know. Sorry to rub salt but it's also none of your business anymore what your ex husband does.

You are going to feel so much better off without this man in your life but of course it doesn't feel like that right now. You want to lash out and hurt him as he has hurt you but that would ultimately hurt you and make him even more protective. I imagine you don't want that.

Your last sentence reveals your pain but it sounds vengeful and nothing to do with what is right. Be graceful and get a level of composure to enable you to deal with your ex husband (only), regarding your DD. The other two people in this merry dance mean nothing to you and you to them.

It's you and your daughter now, all the way - and she and her father now, all the way. Between the two of you, you can give her a happy, stable life - or you could make her miserable and anxious. If you carry on with what you've posted you've done and said, it will most likely be the latter and that would be a great shame.

skyebluesapphire Mon 02-Jul-12 10:53:28

He just makes me sick though. I wasn't expecting him to take DD on Holiday due to cost and the fact that he won't take Time off work. In the same email he says I can't commit to seeing her in the summer holidays due to my work oh and I won't be available to see her between these dates as I'm away!

Yet he makes out he is a wonderful dad and would see her at every opportunity but I won't let him. That is not the case, his work always comes first.

He said she is late back because of her tea so I said he needs to give her tea earlier! This is what he is like, not organised . I said she needs to be back at 6pm from September but he can pick her up earlier if he wants to.

I seriuosly don't give a shit if he is shagging her, I am so far past that now but it annoys me how he says one thing and dies another regarding holidays. And is no doubt building up debt in the meantime. That could affect me.

DoingItForMyself Mon 02-Jul-12 11:01:53

I think Skye's frustration comes from the sudden change she's seen in H since he left, something I'm also dealing with and its one of the most hurtful things, isn't it Skye?

For him to be able to suddenly love holidays when they're with someone else means that the only reason he didn't want to go on a holiday was because it was with me.

When it was the holiday that was the problem, it was easy to paint him as the miserable workaholic whose priorities were all wrong. Once that is taken out of the equation it becomes about me/skye feeling that we were not lovable enough for him to want to spend time with us, which is a very different emotion to have to deal with and not so easy to get past.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 02-Jul-12 11:03:47

Skye... He is entitled to a holiday, we all are. To plan a holiday, you need to take a 'break' from work if you're going away. To see a child who is fairly local, takes a little less planning. It doesn't mean that he doesn't want to see her. From what you've posted, he's been fairly regular with seeing your DD and she seems to be enjoying this and rallying well. Some children take much longer to settle. You're doing a great job with that - please just take care not to undo all that great work.

You say that he brings her back late; he needs to change that. From what you've posted, it's down to being disorganised rather than trying to control the situation or being malicious. I think you should legitimately have a conversation with him, if you can, just saying, "Look, DD needs to be home by X-o'clock. Can you please make sure that she's home by then for her sake". There's nothing in that for him to find fault with and he'll need to work his activity plan backwards to determine what time to pick her up in order to bring her home on time.

Press on with your financial planning with your solicitor and make no comments on anything to do with that with your ex-husband. It will all be sorted soon enough and he will be accountable; it would not be your (or your DD's) interests to stir him up into reckless spending to get back at you.

Trust your solicitor, your counsellor, any other professional you're seeing - and trust yourself that you've done your best and you can now let go and let the pieces of the puzzle be completed by those who are doing that for you.

You can do this, Skye, it's incredibly hard not to want to know what's going on, especially in a long marriage and a short space of time since the split, but you're going to be fine, you really will. Just do nothing to wind yourself up and don't allow others to inject their own 'drama' into your life either. None of it matters now, only the resolution, which is on its way.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Mon 02-Jul-12 11:07:09

yy Doingit, it's a right 'smack in the face' isn't it? sad

It's all still so raw and painful and whilst he's had time to hatch the escape and sidled into a new life with OW/her husband, Skye has had to regroup following a huge bombshell. Not at all fair.

We all just need to remember that when somebody we thought cared about us makes it obvious that they don't/didn't, we mustn't internalise it, it's nothing to do with our worth but everything to do with their own lacking worth as a person.

skyebluesapphire Mon 02-Jul-12 11:22:30

He sat in my living room and he said we want different things out of life. I said like what and he said you are obsessed with holidays you are always talking about going on holiday and I need to concentrate on my business I can't afford to go on holiday. I said I'm not obsessed its DD last chance for a holiday in school term before starting school in September. We cancelled a holiday to Jersey as he didn't want to go on holiday.....

I said everybody needs at least one weeks holiday a year. He disagreed and said that plenty of people don't go on holiday and he would prefer not to go. All we could afford was a caravan holiday snd I was quite happy with that. He was the one who said he didnt want to go on holiday he wanted to work! He was adamant that he couldn't go on holiday!

So to find out he is going abroad for a week is pretty sickening as it goes against what he said to me! Plus he can't find the time to have DD one day a week due to work! And it's all going on the credit card as he had no money. It's back to his old mentality if i want it so I'll have it whereas we saved for stuff rather than get in debt.

DoingItForMyself Mon 02-Jul-12 11:27:24

I think you (& I) have to accept that whatever he said when he was with you should be taken with a pinch of salt. He made his excuses based on how he felt at the time and now that he's having his mid-life crisis moved on, the way he feels about everything is probably different, and bears no resemblance to the thoughts and actions of the man you lived with.

skyebluesapphire Mon 02-Jul-12 11:45:05

Doingit, yes he is definitely a different person now and I have to think that it's all lies what he said but it's just so so galling. Like you say they become a different person . I now see him as a chameleon , he turned into what he thought I wanted and now he's living with them he is living their life and copying her H's clothes and doing what they do.

He made me seem unreasonable for wanting to go on holiday and now I'm getting comments like everybody is entitled to a holiday ! That was my whole point to him which he denied!

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Mon 02-Jul-12 11:55:27

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with the ones saying that he walked out on you and not your daughter. Seeing a child one day a week (oh, and a couple of hours after school one day if you're lucky) is not parenting in my opinion, and doesn't make you 'a decent father'.

Why is it that the man gets to walk away and it is expected that the woman is left holding the baby? If the situation was reversed and you were seeing your daughter one or day a week (with no overnights) and going off on holiday without her, I bet you nobody would be saying 'that skye seems like a pretty decent mother' hmm

I'm not surprised you're feeling angry and cheated.

MyChildDoesntNeedSleep Mon 02-Jul-12 11:59:01

'That skye is a pretty decent mother, and she only walked out on her husband, not her child' Yeeah, right!

DoingItForMyself Mon 02-Jul-12 12:00:34

Well said, MyChild. A man who leaves the family home HAS left the DCs as well as the mum. While he may still maintain a relationship with the DC, its not like the relationship that dads who live with their DCs have - its a totally different thing, sometimes in a good way, sometimes not so much.

Similarly when a man hurts the mother of his children and makes her feel worthless and unloved or cheats on her, he is not a 'great dad' as a great dad would make sure that the mother of his children is happy and respected.

Midwife99 Mon 02-Jul-12 12:15:14

I agree girls. My DD certainly feels that she has been "left" too. She screamed for daddy for 4 hours after he dropped her off last night. Seeing him once a week or fortnight to spend hours in the car driving around the county to pick up his other DD an hour away & then back to the ILs where he's run back to his mummy staying at the moment. Crap he hasn't left her!!

Bunnyjo Mon 02-Jul-12 13:46:57

Actually I think the twunt exH has his priorities all skewed when he is prioritising a holiday over sorting out a flat to he can properly co-parent alongside Skye, or have overnight access at the least. He is also abdicating responsibility during the summer holidays and I would be very annoyed that he cannot take holidays to help look after his child, but can to go away on a jolly with the OW, her husband, and their friends and family.

"He said we need to work together for DD's sake! I said that he chose to walk out on her and I am now bringing her up alone as he chose to be a part time dad! He said his solicitor has told him that he has equal rights over DD."

I absolutely hate when people talk about their rights over children, as though they are some sort of possession. What about his fecking responsibilities too? At the moment he is no more than a McDonalds Daddy, seeing his child one day a weekend and, quite often, one day a week for a few hours and, yet, he seems happy with this. Decent father, really? I think his actions, or inaction, say otherwise, to be honest. He seems to be quite happy living the single life with the OW and her DH.

Skye, I think it may be worth considering mediation with a view to arranging access on a more documented footing, so to speak. He's making the sounds that he's doing the best he can, whereas his actions contradict this, and an impartial ear may be helpful here.

Proudnscary Mon 02-Jul-12 14:28:23

Skye - you have done a phenomenal job of detaching over the last few weeks and are so much stronger.

So you blew your top - you are human. I can understand your anger and frustration. Just put it down to experience and try your utmost (as you have been doing) to stay detached and keep contact down to an absolute minimum. You know that anyway.

I agree with others that you have to also work on being selective with who you tell what and be careful what you say in front of dd. I am not sure asking her if she was a daddy's girl or mummy's girl was a great idea given the situation - four years old is not too young to feel guilt/confusion and to protect your parents from your feelings. She knows only too well that mummy and daddy are not friends anymore and questions like this could be painful and worrying for her.

Stay strong x

skyebluesapphire Mon 02-Jul-12 14:53:07

Thanks for all the above replies. Have just been on the phone to my friend who is 2 years into her divorce and she understands exactly how I feel about everything.

Yes, IMO he did walk out on daughter. We come as a package, he cant walk out on me without walking out on her. If he really loved her he would have talked to me rather than just walk out. He now sees her for around 11 hours a week, when he used to see her for a few hours every day and all weekend. Also, if he loved her and wants to see her as much as he says, he would jump at the chance to have her for a couple of days in the 6 weeks holidays. He would also be trying to find somewhere to live so that he can have her overnight. Its coming up for 3 months now since he moved in with his friends, surely long enough to find somewhere? He could move to the town halfway between us and them and be right on the link road that joins the motorway for work, but he is prioritising his want to live near them over his want to see his daughter.

Proud - I should have thought before I said that to my DD about being mummys or daddys girl. Its something we have always said to her, in a joking way, but of course while it was a bit of fun when we were all together, I realise that I shouldnt say it again now that he no longer lives here. When she gave me the answer I said, oh thats the right answer, we both love you lots.

When she came back yesterday she said I missed you today Mummy and I said ok, but you dont need to worry about me, the important thing is that you have a nice day with daddy. mummy does miss you but mummy is happy and has had a good day.

I have never once mentioned my "rights" to him, I havent even asked the solicitor what my rights are or what his rights are, it hasnt occurred to me! he brought that up as a threat to me, because I said if we cant sort access between us, then we will have to go through the court which i dont want...... As far as I am concerned, I am bringing my daughter up alone, I have to make the day to day decisions. He never texts to ask after her, he never asks how she is getting on at preschool, he never asks anything. I cant wait until she is old enough for a mobile phone, then he can pay for it and she can talk to him whenever she wants.

Proudnscary Mon 02-Jul-12 16:03:14

When she came back yesterday she said I missed you today Mummy and I said ok, but you dont need to worry about me, the important thing is that you have a nice day with daddy. mummy does miss you but mummy is happy and has had a good day

Well you handled that perfectly smile. You are doing a great job, despite all the difficulties, pain and frustration you are going through x

skyebluesapphire Mon 02-Jul-12 22:20:33

I've calmed down now , I've talked to a couple of good friends who have been there from the start and they both said that it just proves that he lied. It proves that whatever reasons he came up with and I fixed them, he just came up with more. It was all just excuses and I was never going to win.

I am still annoyed though that he can make time for a holiday with them but not to see his daughter a bit extra. I will go on and arrange my summer and my childcare and if he can't see her be ause SHE is busy then so be it.

His loss is my gain. I intend to take her away for half term too, so she will remember the holidays with me and have none with him!

skyebluesapphire Wed 04-Jul-12 13:50:51

so its nearly 2pm and I havent heard from him so assume he cant make it today. Ive got plans tomorrow and Friday, visiting friends with children, that my DD knows and is excited about seeing.

So if he asks to see her AIBU to say he cant because I have plans that cant be changed? I dont want to seem awkward, but he if cant commit to every Wednesday, that I have to carry on with my life and my plans dont I?

Thinking about it, he could see her tomorrow afternoon as the friend I am visiting lives just up the road from him, and Im meeting her at 12pm, so he could collect her from there in the afternoon at say 3pm........ I just hope that DD doesnt recognise the road or she will want to go visit him! I also hope I dont bump into him, but I havent visited this friend for over 3 months now due to where she lives and am not going to put it off any longer.

Coz the whole point is, he only texts if he can see her, and I cant sit around waiting for him to be available!

DoingItForMyself Wed 04-Jul-12 14:51:45

Just make your plans Skye, if it fits in with you for him to see her tomorrow or the next day, fair enough, if not then he'll have to wait until the next time. Your DD enjoys her time with him, so its not worth punishing her by putting him off with no valid reason, but if she's already busy, she won't notice what day it is and you can't sit around waiting for him to be available instead of getting on with your life.

skyebluesapphire Wed 04-Jul-12 15:07:20

stupid twunt texted at 3pm to say he would pick her up from school today. She comes out at 3.15, so he must be on his way or in the area to text so late... GGRR!! TWUNT!!

and breathe..... I did something positive today, I emailed details of my parents income etc to my financial advisor so that he can see if one of them can come on my mortgage or be guarantor. I also rang my old boss to get some tax advice about them coming on the mortgage.

I still have to finish the list of living expenses for my form E though! better get on with that and off MN

MusicForTheMasses Wed 04-Jul-12 18:41:01

Grrrrr for you hun. x

Saffysmum Wed 04-Jul-12 19:29:04

skye - you're doing well. My kids always said that twunt left us all, and he did. After I threw him out, he texted the kids to say, "I'll always be here for you". One of my four then responded with, 'but you're not, are've left'. And that is it in a nutshell isn't it? You have kids with these men, and you're a package, so for them to 'leave us and not the kids' is a joke.

Regarding the holiday stuff - I sympathise: twunt and us had one family holiday abroad in 22 years. I instigated, booked and paid for this (not that it matters, but I did, because I thought we all deserved a couple of weeks in Malta). The year before we split up, we had booked a family holiday in Greece, but he cancelled this six weeks before (because he couldn't handle the pressure - huh!). Since he left 14 months ago, he's had four foreign holidays, with Lady Twunt. I rest my case.

skyebluesapphire Wed 04-Jul-12 19:52:47

It really pisses me off that he used holidays as a reason why we are not compatible, makes me feel bad for wanting to go on holiday, even had me thinking that if we got back together I'd go on my own or not have a holiday, anything to make him stay!!!

What a total hypocrite he is to now go abroad with his friends when he told me we couldn't even afford a caravan park holiday! I never cared where we went, it was about spending time together as a family...

He sat there all stressed and shouting that he needed to concentrate on his business!! It's yet one more lie, one more about face, no doubt influenced by OW...

I hope to god it all goes tits up at done point and she gets fed up with his puppy dog devotion and bins him! With no friends I don't know what will happen to him..,.

Midwife99 Wed 04-Jul-12 21:04:28

Oh FFS - it's just all bullshit!
Move on & pity him Skye!

tribpot Wed 04-Jul-12 22:25:20

Actually I think it's particularly galling because you have been prepared to be flexible about her seeing him on a Wednesday, instead of insisting it was a regular thing "because of his [all-encompassing, all-important] business", which he assured you was the main thing in his life and he couldn't turn work down and yadda yadda. But now it turns out he can turn it down, just not for his precious dd sad

I would be bloody furious as well about his casual assumption that he could give you 15 mins' notice of his intention to pick her up from school. Like you had not (at least) already interrupted your work day to get ready to fetch her, if not actually already left. He can't literally have known 15 mins before the end of school, he just couldn't be arsed to be thoughtful (or mature).

But you have to stop angry-emailing him, skye. You're still giving him your power. For his holiday you could have deliberately misunderstood and said "I'm sorry dd won't be available to go with you as term starts on [x date]" - why on earth would he be planning to go away without her? This newly-discovered desire to have holidays would surely be something he wanted to share with his daughter?

As to the speaking, I would just have said "simple, neutral statements are the best thing for dd in my opinion. We aren't friends, we need to be aiming for a courteous co-parenting relationship. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes sticking to agreed handover times; if dd needs extra time to eat her tea I suggest starting earlier".

And I would not add, although I would definitely want to, YOU COMPLETE ARSE.

skyebluesapphire Wed 04-Jul-12 23:10:20

Dd came back tonight saying that she is going to sandcastle competition on Sunday. She thinks that she is going to build one and go for a paddle in the sea. He's an idiot to tell her that in case they don't go! I never tell her anything until the day it happens, I thought that was a given with kids ! Oh well it's him that will have to deal with the fallout but I feel sorry for DD if they dont go.

I've started to arrange my summer childcare, holiday club, swap days with friends etc. Term ends in 2 weeks.... He can go whistle if he wants her once I've arranged everything. He had his chance sad

DoingItForMyself Wed 04-Jul-12 23:25:08

I've been dealing with that tonight too Skye, the furthest he's managed to plan so far is the middle of next week, despite having had his July roster for the past 4 weeks (although half of it has since been changed - whether by him or someone else I don't know.)

He has now offered to have them all day Sunday and Tuesday/Weds evening. Last week that would have brought me out in a cold sweat but this week I just said "ok all of those" as I know that the more he offers to do to look like a great dad, the more stressed he will become. The DCs will be glad they get lots of time with him, I'll get lots of free time and he'll be run ragged trying to do it all. Silly bastard.

I'm just a bit conscious that he will use these nights as a way to pay me less maintenance. At the moment its all very amicable, but when the shit hits the fan, as it will do, he will be able to pretend he's been Mr Hands-on dad throughout.

skyebluesapphire Wed 04-Jul-12 23:41:29

Yes I think he could reduce maintenance for every night he has them if it's more than 1 night a week on average? But don't tell him that, lol.

DoingItForMyself Wed 04-Jul-12 23:44:22

That's the trouble, I don't want to point it out in case he doesn't know that, but at the same time, if he already knows and is using this as a way to reduce what he will pay in future I wouldn't be so accommodating.

But I don't want it to become some game with the DCs as pawns. They should stay with him as often as he/they want, not for the optimum number of nights to maximise my money and my free time! That's just mean.

skyebluesapphire Thu 05-Jul-12 00:00:09

Yes. This us why we need definite access arrangements. Like you say it's not about our free time or maintenance, it's about DC seeing their dads for quality time.

When my H gets in his own place I'm going to suggest Avery other weekend to stay over or every third weekend, plus every Sunday. I would like to have some Sundays with her too so every other weekend would be good but I think it would kill her not to see him for a fortnight

MusicForTheMasses Thu 05-Jul-12 06:18:11

In my divorce papers I have said some weekends (not every). You do not want to get into a situation where you are in trouble if you want to do something with her at the weekend. It's galling that they are only ever going to get the 'good time' - we're the ones left with sad angry children.

skyebluesapphire Thu 05-Jul-12 18:08:18

I have emailed him today as DD has been invited to a joint birthday party on a Sunday again, so I just explained that I don't want her to miss out on these things and he can have her Saturday instead. I asked him to confirm he received the email and he hasn't. Twunt.

I came home to a message on phone reminding him to attend his contact lens appointment on Saturday..... He would never consider lenses as he said he couldn't put anything in his eyes. But of course OW and her H both wear contact lenses so he was bound to do that next, lol.

He's such a pathetic loser!

DollyTwat Thu 05-Jul-12 21:42:54

Sky why can't he take her to the party?
It's all part of being a parent

skyebluesapphire Thu 05-Jul-12 22:13:40

Because he won't. These are my friends, he said when he left that he had no friends here and unfriended everybidy on Facebook and then moved 20 miles away.

Its usually just the mums who go to these parties and He doesn't feel comfortable with my friends as they all know how he treated me and mist if them blank him if he picks her up ftom school, so he won't take her to any parties. I don't want her to miss out on them. Plus it's social for me too.

Plus he gets to spend the whole day with her if we swap, instead of her being at a party half the day.

tribpot Thu 05-Jul-12 22:56:01

It feels like you're still enabling him, skye. Not to mention making his decisions for him (although I fully appreciate you want the right outcome for dd).

I'd be tempted to say: dd has been invited to such-and-such party. She wishes to attend. As it is on your day of the week, do you want to take her, or would you rather swap days?

Put the decision on him whilst making it clear the end result is that dd goes to her party.

Midwife99 Thu 05-Jul-12 22:58:15

Yes I agree Tribpot. It's all in the wording.

skyebluesapphire Thu 05-Jul-12 23:55:55

I just know he won't take her because of how he is in social situations. and I really don't want her to miss out on years of parties just because he walked out on her.

I appreciate in time that if he had her every other weekend then it would be difficult to swap so I would expect him to take her then if it fell on one of his days. I know he won't want to though. But as she gets older she can ask him herself.

I know of friends kids who miss out on everything when they are with their dad and I think it's really sad sad

tribpot Fri 06-Jul-12 00:01:50

Totally understand, skye. But he has to take the responsibility for the decision. I suspect he will probably say 'I'll take the swap' and there you are, no harm done. If he says he will take her and then he doesn't ... well, one party won't harm but you've then got the evidence to say that in future you'll need to specify a re-arrangement on the party day and that you'll be expecting to him to agree to that in writing when the time comes.

No-one's doubting that he won't actually take her. But you've played into his hands by taking the decision off him - he will throw this back at you at some point. He's meant to rearrange his busy schedule around your social commitments [is how it will be characterised] but he's chastised for going on holiday with weeks of notice provided.

Don't let the tosspot get to you; don't deal with him from a place of emotion. And tell him to tell the bloody optician to call him at his house not yours!

skyebluesapphire Fri 06-Jul-12 00:12:18

The issue with the holiday is because he used it as one of many reasons as to why we wAnted different things out of life and why he had to leave me! I wanted holidays and he couldn't possibly leave his business to go on holiday! I wouldn't give a toss otherwise but to throw it at me as a reason for leaving then go abroad with his friends is unforgivable. Notice has got nothing to do with it. Plus he said he can't take time off to be with DD ! But can take time off for his friends.

He is a complete hypocrite, he made me feel so bad for wanting to go on holiday! And then does this.

He is a total bastard. I need to discuss this with my counsellor tomorrow to get it out of my head and let it go.

izzyizin Fri 06-Jul-12 00:16:58

'Tis moi, your harshest critic again, skye.

I'm sorry to say that your friends sound as extreme determined to be as uncivil to him as you do.

This may be understandable while your wounds are raw but, as it will not be conducive to your dd's sense of wellbeing to see her df being blanked or otherwise treated with hostility by her friends' dms/dps when he picks her up from school or is required to drop her off at their homes/parties, I trust you'll ask your pals to amend their behaviour towards him accordingly.

It goes without saying that your dd is not a commodity that you can dispense with largesse or otherwise withhold to suit yourself but, to date, much of your correspondence with him in respect of contact arrangements could be viewed as obstructive rather than a genuine attempt to act in the best interests of the child.

I seem to recall you've made mention of him referring to his parental rights; I'm not advising you to grovel to him but I am advising you to swallow some of your pride in the interests of your dd's welfare and to forestall the possibility of him applying to the Courts for equal parenting time.

Flexibility is key. It won't hurt your dd to miss the odd party, nor will it hurt him to drop her off early either at your home or at a party venue providing he isn't made to feel he's walking the gauntlet and that you offer him additional opportunity to spend quality time with his dd to compensate.

While you still have it all to play for, you would be ill-advised to lose sight of the fact that honey attracts more flies than vinegar.

Put your desire to bludgeon him away and let 'subtle' be your maxim if for no other reason than revenge is a dish best eaten cold.

tribpot Fri 06-Jul-12 00:19:48

I know all that, and I agree with your assessment of him. But what is going to follow is a protracted period of trying to sort out your co-parenting relationship and separate that from your previous marriage.

Don't give him ammo. I don't remotely subscribe to the view I gave above, that he gets kicked if he goes on holiday but you're allowed to change the contact schedule at will. Just highlighting that is how it can be spun if he wants to.

skyebluesapphire Fri 06-Jul-12 00:48:11

I said to my mum earlier, let him go for equal custody if he wants to! He will never do it. She could spend a week here, then a week there. he would have to bring her here to school every day, then pick her up every day or arrange and pay for childcare til he gets home, which could be late in the evening. His business is so important to him, as are his friends that he will never go for equal time with her. It simply doesnt suit his job.

My friends simply do not want to speak to him. This is their choice and I dont blame them. They are not rude to him in front of DD and they speak to her obviously. A lot of them feel let down by him too as they tried to be friendly to him and include him in stuff and then he says that he had no friends here, so he has hurt them and their husbands too. They are all disgusted that he could walk out on his wife and DD with no warning and just say "this is the way I am". I dont blame them for not wanting to be "Hi mate , how are you?"

Each time I say I want her on Sunday, I make sure that I swap it for Saturday, I am not stopping him from seeing her. Indeed, with the summer holidays, I have offered him more time with her, which he cannot accept due to work...... When I have asked him to bring her back at 6pm from September onwards, I have offered him to pick her up earlier so he doesnt lose time with her.

He has a terrible memory and cant organise anything, but it is up to him to pull his finger out and sort out his access to her. This is why I give him plenty of notice of these things, so he can write them down and plan ahead and not have me changing his plans at the last minute.

I know it wont hurt her to miss the odd party, but this is 4 kids parties now that she would have missed if I didnt ask him to swap. she already missed her cousins party because it was on his birthday and I didnt like to ask him to swap as I thought it would be mean.

Anyway, time for bed, its nearly 1am and Ive been up late working! Got to get up at 7am! Night all!

skyebluesapphire Fri 06-Jul-12 00:53:31

forgot to say - thanks Trib, I do see what you are saying, that you dont agree but are making the point that that is how he could spin it to his friends and family. He is such a shit.

He referred to the Michael McIntyre show earlier when he asked about having DD in August as I wanted him to have her Saturday or Monday. He said where will she be on the Saturday, as its the show that weekend? I just emailed back , she will be at my mums, while I go to the show in XX, but she will be home in time for you on Saturday morning.

Its the first time he has mentioned the show, so I hope he doesnt think he is still going! Maybe I should have said while me and DN (neighbour) go to the show.... to make it plain that his ticket is no longer available...

This is the show that OW, her H and her friend will all be at, in the seats next to us.... Not looking forward to it really.. Going to put my neighbour between me and them though, lol. She can ward off any death ray stares that come from OW..

izzyizin Fri 06-Jul-12 02:11:47

If you corner a rat, you should be prepared for it to spring at you. You're best advised not to corner your rat, skye, until you've got financial settlements and like sorted.

With regard to the MM show; I'd be tempted to rent beg, borrow, or steal an exceedingly hunky escort and have him drape himself over my carefully coiffed and dressed to impressed bod while the ow and h store up memories of the evening to relate to cinderfella when they get home

As you're going with your neighbour I suggest you come back nearer the date for a selection of barbs innoucuous remarks that she/you can make to each other in earshot of the happy couple.

I wouldn't bother looking the ow in the face; I'd be looking at her hands and counting how many times she could be seen playing with her mobile grin

izzyizin Fri 06-Jul-12 02:13:09

innocuous not innoucuous smile

izzyizin Fri 06-Jul-12 04:34:13

If I were you, I wouldn't mention the MM show again. Let it be a surprise for him to discover he's not wanted on any voyage you make - given that he's made plans to voyage with the ow and her cuckold dh, he can hardly complain.

skyebluesapphire Fri 06-Jul-12 18:41:45

Izzy - lol at the mobile, and wish I had thought about hiring a handsome hunk to drive me there! Too late now, DN will never forgive me if I don't take her lol.

Had my third counselling session today. I was a lot stronger, cried a few times but not through the whole session. We discussed the holiday and the fact he lied to me, it was just one more excuse, he probably meant it at the time but it wasn't really a reason.

She said that he never takes responsibility for himself, he met me and moved in with me as he had to move out of his rented house. Then he leaves me and moves into their home, being looked after by them.

I said he is the cuckoo in the nest and it will all go pear shaped in time, when OW gets tired of dangling him on a string. She said OW will then want to distance herself from my H so that her H doesnt find out the full extent of the contact, she will then want him out of the house, will discourage her H from seeing my H and my H will then have to take responsibility for his own life, but that's not my problem. She said I need to be prepared for him to come running back then and be strong enough to deal with it.

She said he may have walked out me but this is my decision to divorce him and move on. She said i will probably never know the truth of why he left or how long he was unhappy and I need to accept that.

She said that he needs to tell DD the week before he goes away that he won't see her the following week as its unfair for me to have to deal with all the fallout.

She said that he needs counselling and if he doesn't get it he will end up with an empty life but none of that is my responsibility that I have to cut all ties in caring about what happens to him. my only concern is our DD and how he handles her

I feel better each time I see her.

tribpot Fri 06-Jul-12 18:54:16

That all sounds like good, solid advice skye. I'm glad you're finding the sessions beneficial.

I think it is a good point about being ready for the OW to 'dump' him and him to come running back. All the more reason to press on with the divorce.

Btw, re: MM, why don't you offer your DH an extra contact night?

skyebluesapphire Fri 06-Jul-12 19:03:54

Because he won't have her til he's in his own place. If he is by then , I will suggest it as it makes sense. But he will probably say no due to work as he never knows what time he is going to be home.....

Jux Fri 06-Jul-12 20:56:31

You're being brilliant, Skye. What you said to your dd when she said she missed you was lovely.

You sound so much stronger now than when you started your first elephant thread.

I am glad your counselling is going well now. The first session was a bit of a shock, but now she sounds like she's pretty good for you.

How quickly can you get your financial stuff sorted. I have a horrid feeling he's going to get difficult.

skyebluesapphire Sat 07-Jul-12 03:58:22

Oops, it's 4am and I should have gone to bed hours ago!friends gave been and gone, have drunk lots if wine, recycle bin makes me look like an alkie! Eaten lots if pizza and rubbish too but had great night. Totally drunk, had great evening. Out tomorrow night with friends, looking forward to it, shame no single men though lol

skyebluesapphire Sat 07-Jul-12 11:03:38

Christ do I feel rough today! 2 bottles of wine not a good idea!

I was very restrained while drunk last night. My friend saw my STBXH last week in a work situation so had to be polite to him which he saw as a green light that she was friendly. He said to her " I just wish she would talk to me, I don't like us not being friends" she said she didn't get chance to reply as the office phone started ringing.

I wanted to email him " fuck you arsehole Ive made it quite plain that we can't be friends , I despise you. You are a lying twunt. Fuck off. Stop trying to add all my friends back in Facebook as they all know that you said you had no friends here in XXXXXX and they think you are a total shit for what you have done to to us"

BUT I DIDN'T EMAIL HIM! feel better for saying it here though grin

keepcalmandeatcupcakes Sat 07-Jul-12 12:10:59

So glad you had a great night!!! And how pathetic that he is trying to get your friends to get you to talk to him, he must completely be losing it! At least you can sit back and laugh, he left you, therefore he still wants to be friends??? What an idiot! And well done for not emailing or texting - keep it up, you are the one in control now, the one with a social life - in years to come, he will regret all he has lost smile

keepcalmandeatcupcakes Sat 07-Jul-12 12:11:56

And don't worry about recycle bin - you should see ours at the end of the week blush

tribpot Sat 07-Jul-12 12:32:01

skye - that is an amazing display of 'restraint whilst drunk', well done you!

"I don't like us not being friends" - what a sad fucker. He walked out of your life together and he's surprised you're miffed? That your friends might think he's a wanker? WTF did he expect ?

And remember, you can always vent here - drunk or sober grin

skyebluesapphire Sat 07-Jul-12 13:28:59

Thanks. I am proud of myselfsmile off out tonight for a meal with friends. Hope I can stay awake long enough! Knackered!

Had letter from solicitor today, my decree nisi will be filed on Tuesday and I could be divorced by the end of August, although he says it won't be done by then because of the finances.

tribpot Sat 07-Jul-12 13:30:36

Like all party animals, you need a siesta to keep your strength up, skye! I'm very impressed you can manage two nights out on the trot.

MusicForTheMasses Sat 07-Jul-12 15:05:33

Skye, that is SUCh a major step for you, well done. Glad you are having some fun. We can be divorce buddies lol!

I couldn't manage two nights on the trot though! I'm impressed by that alone lol. xxx

DoingItForMyself Sat 07-Jul-12 15:13:48

Well done Skye for not letting him know that you're still hurt - you know that silence is the most powerful weapon against people who thrive on attention, but its soooo hard!

My stbxh kept talking about us being friends too, why he thinks I want to be friends with someone who let me down so badly in my marriage I don't know. I thought it was possible to start with, but only because I couldn't imagine a life without him in it, so friendship seemed better than nothing.

The longer I go without seeing him the less I miss him and I don't feel the need to be involved with him and the DCs, its just too painful to have what I always wanted (him involved in family life) but only by not having my family any more sad

Hope you have a great night out tonight too - I've got a couple of evenings out planned for this week when the DCs are away but don't think I'll manage 2 bottles of wine!!

skyebluesapphire Sat 07-Jul-12 16:44:08

Just been to a fun day with DD. I'm so tired I can barely keep my eyes open! Tonight is a gang of us round a friends house, mostly couples and four singles , 3 women and 1 man I think! It's £10 a head for a catered meal, take your own wine. Food theme is "All around the world".

I dont usually do one night out a month, never mind two in one week! My social life has never been better! And I thought my life was over, lol.

I'm just so flaming tired!

tribpot Sat 07-Jul-12 16:48:45

Betcha you didn't think a few months ago that you'd be complaining about being tired from going out having so much fun, skye!

skyebluesapphire Sun 08-Jul-12 10:51:54

Just having a major crying fit and can't stop myself.... I just want my old life back when we were all happy. I'm on my own again today, full of self pity but have had a brilliant weekend do far do don't know why I'm like this now. Actually it's probably two nights worth of hangovers crashing in on me!

DD has gone off all excited as STBXH and OW and her H are taking her to the sandcastle competition today so she's gone off with her swimsuit and bucket and spade. It's lovely to see her so happy but I hate that we are not together all three of us. And once again he is going somewhere that he would not go with me as he wasn't interested yet now he's living their life he goes with them .......

If we didn't have the finances to sort we could be divorced by the end of August and I can't believe that would be just six months from when he walked out. How the hell did my life change so quickly?!

Everybody keeps telling me that in two years time u will be happier than ever and I try and hold on to that thought....

I need to get a grip big time today!

tribpot Sun 08-Jul-12 11:00:18

I do think it's probably the after-effects of all that partying, skye, plus the realisation from your solicitor's convo that (in theory at least) the divorce could shortly be a reality.

Your ex is living in a very artificial bubble at the moment (I wonder how many of these entertainments for dd are arranged by the OW on his behalf) where he effectively has to entertain her cos he has nowhere else to go with her. His true colours will come out in time. He was never a good husband and father, it was just less obvious then.

DoingItForMyself Sun 08-Jul-12 11:06:55

Aw Skye, I'm on my own today too, its hard isn't it.

Just try to remember that in your old life, he wouldn't have been taking her to the sandcastle thingy, he'd have been working.

Same as my ex wouldn't be spending today with them, DS1 would be out with his mates, I'd be hanging out with the other two and H would be tinkering in the garage, hiding on his laptop in the office or watching the Formula 1, so this is better for them all + I get to go shopping on my own without feeling bad for leaving him in the lurch with them.

Its OK to cry, but just make sure you know that you're not crying because you miss your old life so much, more that you miss the life you wish you could have had but never did. The fact that he now looks like he can offer this, but chose not to is sad for you all, but don't dwell on it as you know that if he came back he would revert back to his old ways with you. He's on his best behaviour for OW (and how much of a mug is her H by the way!?! Bless him.)

skyebluesapphire Sun 08-Jul-12 11:22:27

We did always spend the weekend together though and Sundays we either stayed home or went to visit family. I just feel empty now as he should be sat here reading the paper while DD plays in the garden.

It's all so wrong. He smashed up our family rather than talk to me. He turned to her to discuss everything rather than talk to me. He's still in denial about what he's done. I hope he realises one day.