Mumsnet Talk

So, after our great date on Saturday and lovely day on Sunday, tonight he emails me his letter which basically details how unhappy he was, how long he had been unhappy, all the things that made him unhappy.

He says that I was so stressed out it was impossible to talk to me and I took it out on him and my daughter. He says that when he was ill I didnt care (I was ill myself at the same time). He felt that he was doing most of the housework and I didnt appreciate it. I spent too much time on facebook and tv (he was on the computer every night). I was too controlling because I organised our entire lives and we were always busy.

Now that he is on his own he is happy making his own decisions, does not feel pressured, he likes living in town with everything in easy reach. I never supported him in his work.

He enjoyed the date last week, but still feels no desire to come back at present. He said that since the date I put too much pressure on him and have got my hopes right up again and he accepts the blame for that for giving me mixed signals and false hope..

I telephoned him after getting the email and I asked him where this left us, is he saying its over or what, as we were supposed to be going out on Saturday. He said maybe leave it a couple of weeks, so I pushed him and said but do you want to do this, honestly, do you think it will make a difference and he said no.

So I guess that is the end of my marriage then. I said if thats what you are saying then divorce is the only route now and he said I dont want to get divorced, its only a bit of paper. I said no it isnt, its the closure I need to be able to move on and hopefully find somebody else in the future.... I said did he want to start it or me and he said its up to you. So looks like I'll be taking control of that one then..... I told him that we need a more formal footing for access now, he wont be able to come in the house any more and put her to bed etc.

I wrote him a long email back, addressing all the points in his letter and also laying blame on him, which I didnt do in my first letter.

I am so gutted that my marriage is over, but he is being very selfish and cowardly.

I was going to start a new thread, but old one still going now, so please post on that one, thanks.....

Dumped by e-mail? "It's not me, it's you" eh? Stick the boot in that it's 'all your fault'? Get yourself a good lawyer and good luck with the divorce.

He is an arsewipe. Get yourself a solicitor as a matter of urgency and keep your finances protected.

I still think that there is more news to come on the text woman front.

Prepare yourself.

Stop pulling the wool over your own eyes; get angry and lawyer up.

Its not ' I guess the marriage is over', take control and your dignity and end it yourself. you will feel much better when you are in the driving seat instead of waiting around letting him write his stupid letters and going on silly dates.

Personally I'd be fucking furious that he sent some letter detailing my failings as a wife, who the hell does he think he is? He is either stupid/deluded or thinks you are stupid enough to not see through his facade of 'I am not having an affair with that woman'.

Keep 'pushing' him, yeah do that - until he falls off a cliff

AND keep putting the pressure on - direct it at his wallet and squeeze and squeeze.

i'll be different then:
don't waste your energy being angry and spiteful - any gratification you get in the short term will only make you regret it going forward and you really don't want to be in a position of fighting over kids and such. keep it amicable if you can, or just cut him off as soon as possible. either way, it's much much better for your kid(s) - because they will be affected by all of the negativity if you let it go down that road

grieve for the end of your marriage and get the wheels in motion for the divorce. most importantly : protect your finances.

i really hope you keep your cool and come through this stronger. we're here to support!

I don't think being angry is a waste of energy. The OP has spent so long desperately hoping that things could improve, ignoring her own feelings and pandering to his 'insecurities' that I think a good old blow-out is actually required. She should have got angry when he first walked out but, instead, she stayed conciliatory ... and all it achieved was to have contempt and resentment heaped on her head in spades.

'Amicable' is how friends treat each other. Whatever else this man is, he is not her friend. Your children do not need to be shielded a minute longer. Be negative OP... I think you've earned the right.

"I don't think being angry is a waste of energy"

how will being angry achieve anything? or at least anything she wanted (reconciliation). it is a waste of energy. it's better to just let go, grieve, and move on with her life.

Being angry will achieve a lot. It will kick-start her out of the will-he-won't-he torpor that has put her life on hold since he walked out. It will get her out of doormat mode. It will focus her mind and give her the energy to get going with the divorce. It will enable her to see her ex for who he really is and stop making excuses on his behalf.

Suppressing her anger, denying her feelings, has achieved nothing but contempt. She needs to yell.... not repress and keep an unnatural calm. Then she can let go and move on and be much healthier mentally.

Whether you get angry or not you need to take control now Skye. Start the ball rolling and see a solicitor, why doesn't he want a divorce? selfish reasons - maybe he thinks he can come back to you at some point if he leaves the door open, financial reasons- divorces are expensive and will hit him in the pocket. He can't really use the excuse that's just a piece of paper WTF?

How very noble of him to accept the blame for giving you false hope :@ what a guy, what about shouldering some responsibility for what's happened in your marriage, 2 of you are in it and it takes 2 to make it work.

I haven't read your other post but from what I can gather there is possibly OW involved. Which could go a little way to explain the way he wrote to you -blaming you, convincing himself that his marriage was shite and he had reason to cheat/look elsewhere. arsehole

Stay strong Skye, you have tried to fix it but he obviously doesn't want to. Move forward, he deserves no more of your time. Good luck xx

What sirsugar said. Squeeze the selfish bastard for every penny he has got. Cheeky fekcer.

look, i know everyone comes here because thye're hurting, or need help... but i am getting sick and tired of all these posts which advocate revenge and anger and lashing out.

being upset and being angry are different things and you shouldn't ever be angry as an outlet for your hurt. a lot of very stupid vindictive spiteful and ultimately regretable things have been said and done in anger - and you can't always take them back. it's the main reason why most of us are here.

think of the children. do they want to see you (or do you want them to see you) screaming at and waging war against their (possibly crappy?) father, or do you want to show them how to act maturely and responsibly when life hands you a steaming bag, show them that anger/violence/hate isn't acceptable - whilst being strong and assertive - and allow them to form their own relationships with him over time if that's something they (as individuals) want, whilst not being influenced by you and your actions/reactions to him post-breakup (which are always extremely heated and sad affairs and always affect children deeply).

be upset. be hurt. grieve for your relationship... but don't use it as an excuse to be angry and lash out - that's just not nice, and sends your children a very strong message about who you are and what they can be and do when they grow up. don't let a broken relationship mean a broken home. you may not agree with it, but if he's made his decision, all you can do is make your own way through this with as much poise and dignaty as possible.

good luck moving on OP, I really hope that throughout all of this crap, something good might (one day) come from this. we are here to help

I think actually the OP will be relatively dignified about it. She waited patiently for his letter which proved he was as crap as we suspected and hasn't been, from my impression anyway, slagging him off. She may well wish to be angry with him in private, though, he needs a few home truths being told, and there's no reason for her not to be frank, angry or upset in front of him. But that's a different thing than lashing out at him or through her daughter and she sounds too sensible for that to me. I think the fact that she immediately saw the lie of the land once she'd seen the letter in black and white, and is prepared to intiate the divorce and formalise contact is actually a good thing.

You're sounding strong op.

Feeling your own anger does not necessarily equate to shouting and lashing out. It doesn't need to manifest in that way. Feeling oppressed and miserable often does - I speak from experience.

Harnessing the energy that anger brings can give you the strength to do what you have to do, including a divorce that, while amicable might not be the right word, is focussed on the facts and achieving the best you can for yourself and DC.

" it's the main reason why most of us are here"

The main reason why so many women are here is that they've been conditioned by a male dominated relationship in a male dominated society to be meek and mild... conciliatory and palliative. They are told that a 'good woman' takes the other person's bad behaviour on the chin, calmly, maturely, rationally. They are conditioned to believe that angry women are somehow freakish and a threat. The frustration this self-imposed inability to express rage causes leads to thousands of women being prescribed ADs and other tranqulising drugs to make it through the day rather than tackling the cause of the frustration head on. I'm not advocating taking revenge, screaming, lashing out or waging war necessarily .... but getting angry at being treated like a piece of dirt is a totally valid emotion. If more women gave themselves permission to be angry there would be far fewer opportunites for bullies and emotional abusers to take advantage of instituionalised meek and mildness.

'AND keep putting the pressure on - direct it at his wallet and squeeze and squeeze.'

'What sirsugar said. Squeeze the selfish bastard for every penny he has got. Cheeky fekcer.'

And this is why I'm so glad I'm not a man. Lovely.

Getting angry is healthy. I don't mean screaming & shouting in front of DC etc. I mean the sort of anger that gives you the energy to stop the twunt taking advantage anymore & to get strong. Good luck OP.

The main reason why so many women are here is that they've been conditioned by a male dominated relationship in a male dominated society to be meek and mild... conciliatory and palliative.

I agree with this. I think this meekness and mildness causes lots of problems (in the short run and the long run). There is nothing inherently wrong with being angry at being treated like rubbish; it prevents it happening again for one thing. One other issue, probably not relevant on this post though, is when its "built up" from not asserting oneself in smaller ways. Here it can build up to where it can be explosive (outwardly) or internally.

So, OP, I'm not advocating anything myself (I don't know the background to this on previous thread, etc). I do think finishing by email is a a pretty cowardly thing to do. I do think ending by email is pretty .

Wish you really well in going forward.

divorce is just a piece of paper??? did he think marriage was just a piece of paper too?

twunt.

of course, he'll be saying all this because
a) he wants to avoid any kind of confrontation/signing papers/talking to solicitor/expense and
b) he wants everything to be informal, so he can exert maximum manipulation and just bully you into the kind of access/spousal support/settlement that HE wants

i'm sorry this happened to you & i hope you can get (and stay) angry enough to assert your rights in this situation.

it sounds like you're already on track. good luck to you, you'll find support here x

I am so sorry skye.

It is pretty nasty to spend time holding hands on the beach and cuddling up to just dump on them like this.

Please remember from now on moving forwards this man is not your friend. Right now you cannot trust him to do the right or decent thing by you. Get yourself to a solicitor and find out where you stand and what you can do. Get yourself to the CAB and find out what financial help etc you are entitled to.

Maybe in the future you can be friends but for now you need to concentrate on yourself and your DD.

You are incredibly strong. Despite what everyone was saying on your other threads you did what you thought was the right thing. You can hold your head high and look in the mirror.

Do what is right for you and DD. I hope you have a good life.

I'm so sorry to hear this, sky. You tried. You can hold your head up high and say you tried, and now it's time to move on.

I'm always sorry to hear about marriages ending. But unfortunately, you tried to keep it going, and he didn't. It takes two to make a marriage work, and it seems like you did everything you could to change, and he did nothing.

(I followed your other threads, by the way.)

Be angry (not shouty) if that's what it takes to get the divorce and move on.

Well done you, for being so strong.

Sigmunde, I totally advocate squeezing his wallet as he has a child to support in his absense whether he likes it or not. And I would suggest it if it was a DW who'd left a SAHD

Sapphire, please do now seek legal advice and check the financial situation, eg to make sure you won't be liable if he gets into debt again.

You and DD will be so much better off without living with him, everything you have said about him has revealed him to be selfish, angry, absorbed in his own drama, and generally not a good person to be married to.

And this is not your fault, he is the one who has let you and DD down.

I had a good chat with the friends wife earlier, she is livid with him for treating me like this. He told her that he had a really good time on the date and felt 100 times better about everything. She asked him tonight why the u-turn and he said no u-turn , he always felt like this. He told them this morning that he wrote me an honest letter and because of that I asked for a divorce. So I put her straight and said no, he said it was over, so I said you do realise that divorce is the only path to take now! He has told them that it is definitely over, that he has no feelings for me. She is furious with him. She has told him if it is definitely over, then he needs to look for a more permanent place to stay, as they were thinking it was temporary until he came home..

He has read the email I send him and said it changes nothing, not that I expected it too, but this email was more about my angry feelings, which the last one wasnt.

Could you maybe take a break from contact with him (except for anything urgent to do with DD or contact). He will only continue to fuck with your head.

You could use time to reflect, see your real friends (not this couple he's staying with, let them deal with whatever they need to re the living arrangements, it's not your problem), get legal advice, set up financial protection etc.

Anger is a stage of grieving, is better than denial IMO!

It's really better not to be talking to the ow friend's wife about this. Do you have anyone else in rl you can turn to?

I agree you need to cut off contact with OW. She's a shit stirrer!

I did ask her to be honest with me and I wanted to know what he was telling them. But he said there's no way he will change his mind and that I need to move on. He said he has no feelings for me at all now.

He has changed into cold hard person who I No longer know and I told him that he is no longer the man that I fell in love with

skye i mean this gently, but you do know that asking someone to be honest with you, doesn't mean they are actually going to be honest with you?

i really think you should distance yourself from this woman, you really have no insight into what her motives are and i doubt they are quite as snow white as you seem to believe.

just stop talking to these people altogether. maybe when your H has moved out of her house and there's several months' worth of distance between them, then you can start thinking about striking up a friendship with her again.

the reason i say all this is, by talking to her etc you are setting yourself up for more betrayal and/or confusion.

e.g. even if her intentions are good..
let's say she confronts your H with something you've said to her ("why are you being so shitty to skye?" etc)
and then H comes back to you, and twists her words around,
and you feel like you have to defend yourself
and end up crying
and feel horrible
and he's all smug and it makes it even worse
and then you have a go at her, and she insists she didn't say it like that...

just endless drama.

i'm sorry H is being such a knobber. no-one here was hoping they were right about him. i'm sad that you're sad

He is a weak man who toyed with your feelings rather than be a 'man' about it all and be honest and respectful. Agree with other posters who advocate not discussing things with friends wife - he lives there; they talk far too much about YOUR relationship and YOUR life. And everything YOU say will be relayed back... Maintain a dignified silence. Correspond with him only and in a formal way. Allow yourself some breathing and thinking space and time to lick your wounds. I wish you well OP. Stay strong.

Why do you need to know what he is telling them?

He has set you straight and that is all you need to know.

Time out required.

I remember your last thread and will say the same again on this thread.

Back away, take what he has told you and make yourself unavailable to him.

Do this for 1 month without thinking about anything more than yourself and your child, if he gets in touch for reasonable contact then allow that but do not get involved with anympre drama with him for now.

One month will make you stronger and if he doesn't get in touch you will learn one more thing about why you don't need him.

I just wanted to know what he had told them. He told them that I read the letter and asked for divorce so I wanted to put her straight, as it wasn't like that, i stressed that he had to be sure this is what he wants as the only option left is divorce.. but I won't be contacting her again about him, as there is nothing left to say. But we will keep in touch.

I know totally where I stand now, I don't need a weak coward of a man anyway. He should have stood up to me and let me know when he was unhappy. I am not a bad person and I won't let him make me think I am and bring me down.

He hasn't texted about seeing daughter tomorrow but I'm not going to contact him. He wants to make his own decisions without me organising his life so let him get on with it. He'd better not let her down though.

Skyeblue- really sorry it's come to this, feel so bad for you . He's behaved appallingly, you tried very hard to save your marriage - but he had already checked out. He's been very cruel to you actually. I agree you should stop contacting this 'friend's wife' now, my love.

Skye, make sure you have your real-life supporters (family?friends?) around you too, I agree that contacting the wife is only going to bring more pain. Step away from their drama (whatever it is) and put you and your daughter first.

Yes thanks I do have some good friends in RL. One spent the morning with me yesterday, another came over in the early evening and I have others on the end of the phone. My cousin and mum have both been brilliant as well. It helps me to talk through it all and realise there was no more that I could do, as he simply wasn't prepared to try . I am not a bad person I'm really not. His issues meant that he could not deal with facing up to reality and that's not my fault.

No one here thinks you're a 'bad' person - all you've done is allowed yourself to be fooled by him into thinking he was something he's not, and there's not many of us who can say we haven't been fooled by those who are experts at the art of deception.

skye, you know why we all so clear that he was going to let you down and that you should not be taking him at face value, don't you ?

because we've been there (or variations thereof) and when you look with an objective eye (emotions aside) it is very easy to see....not so when you love someone and don't expect them to fuck you over

Of course you're not a bad person! You just couldn't see the truth because you had love blinkers on. Now they're off! Now you're free! You'll be ok honestly. Distance distance distance is the key. No texts, no emails, no chats. Just DD contact & that's it.

Do your RL friends know about all the texts to the ow? If so, what's their view? Do they think you should still be in contact with her?

Skye you need to re in force that within yourself "you're not a bad person" and start believing it, because it looks like he has made you believe that you are

thinking of you and your DD today skye

Have you found a lawyer yet? Time to be practical. Feel how you feel, that's hard to predict/control anyway. But do get the practicals sorted asap. Good luck.

Oh Skye of course you're not a bad person! Why do you think so many of us persevered with your thread even though we could see we weren't getting through?

We could see that not only had your husband done a number on you, you were doing a number on yourself which is why I wanted you to compare your two threads to see the different stories you were weaving from one week to the next. This whole ghastly business seemed to have got you distorting your memories and your truth and it was very sad to see.

But you need to stop contact with all the protagonists in the drama now and stop talking about what's happened with people who've been part of the story. Leave it up to your husband now to make arrangements to see your daughter and if you're in contact with him, let it be only about arrangements now.

Lean on people who've only got your best interests at heart now and who have no vested interest in what happens next.

I don't think you're a bad person either!

Re your DD, unfortunately her df is a weak and selfish man. At some point in the future she may well realise that and make her own decisions accordingly.

Until then, the chances are he's going to let her down over and over again.

This is NOT your responsibility! At times you will have to pick up the pieces but you can't force him to be a good father!

You need to concentrate on your relationship with her. Make sure she feels secure with you. Be consistent with her. Don't talk badly about her df in front of her (which I don't think you have done at any point) and make it your aim to be as fair and consistent as possible re access with dh.

Be clear with him as well, re access times and his responsibility. From the start make it clear this is his responsibility!

I wasn't going to text him but he hadnt been in touch about seeing her tomorrow... And she was asking if she was going to see him so I had to text and ask him! Makes me bloody mad. I will make it clear to him tomorrow that it's up to him to contact me to arrange it not the other way round....

Just boxed up all his CDs DVDs books etc so he can take it all tomorrow. He's got nowhere to put it but that's not my problem.

Well done sky. Hope you're ok!

You could have just told her that you weren't sure but if she didn't seething then the two of you would do something nice together.

See him, not seething!

so he turns up this morning, smiles and says alright then. I couldnt even look at him. I said goodbye to my daughter and then shut the door. Then I sat down and cried. I wish I never had to see him ever again :-(

Please tell me this gets easier......

It gets easier... hang on in there because it really does get easier, honey.

it does get easier, how can it not ?

It will get easier. Eventually you will have a day full of plans to do grown up stuff while ex twunt has DD & be pleased you have this free time. You won't care whether you see him or not.

I just feel so heartbroken, Im crying for the man that I thought I knew, that seems to have turned into somebody else. A cold cruel heartless bastard. I just want my life back, with my husband who used to be so lovely. I dont know where that man went. I know I drove him away, but he should have talked to me, I had no idea how he was feeling. and you can only walk over somebody if they let you and dont tell you there is a problem. It was dispicible what he did to me, going out on the date being all lovey dovey and then destroying me by letter 4 days later.

I know that I need to hate him and no doubt I will in time, but I just love him so much and want him back despite everything... But I know its never going to happen and things would never be right again even if he did..

Trouble is I was 30 before I met him, I had a couple of relationships before but nothing serious, we fell in love so quickly and he moved in 4 months later and I just cant see past the fact that he was the one and cant ever imagine that i will find anybody else.

How will I ever trust anybody again, I will be paranoid that they arent saying how they really feel, that Im going to walk all over them and drive them away again.

I just feel like shit right now

love, he was never that man

it isn't possible to "drive someone away" that doesn't want to go

I am not at all surprised your relationship moved so fast at the beginning. You never knew the real him

this is the real him, and was all along

as soon as the going got a bit tough, he jumped ship and it was always going to happen

you need to accept that, and stop blaming yourself

It gets easier.
It gets easier.
It gets easier.
It gets easier.
Eventually - though you won't believe me yet - it gets fine.

By saying that you drove him away you are still taking responsibility for it all. He has gone because he's a weak character, he's done it before to exs, you know this. He runs off when things are hard. He is a wimp and has issues. That's not your fault and i think you will see that one day.

I know, I keep going over it all in my mind and just feel desperate :-( I know that there was nothing I could do if I didnt realise how he felt. I told him that he cant go through life like this, walking out on every relationship rather than speak up. He does have issues, mainly due to the way that his mother treated them as children, no love, no praise, no comfort, putting them down all the time etc.

He really isnt the man that I thought he was. He used to be so kind caring and considerate, but has become very selfish. He used to love our house and where its situated, no traffic, quiet culdesac, daughter ride bike etc, detached property. Now he is saying that he prefers living in town as there is so much more going on and everything within easy reach! Thats got nothing to do with our relationship, yet he throws it in as a reason for leaving! He has bought into the friends life, popping down weatherspoons for tea, getting takeaways, walking to the cinema etc. She sadly said to me that they live a childless life, therefore they keep themselves busy by doing all these things, but they would far rather have the child and be at home.. If he moves out, he will not be able to do everything with them as he wont be there to see what they are doing and the probably feel obliged to ask him along whereas if hes not living there then they wont. So he will be living in town, but have nobody to go anywhere with! I really dont know what he wants out of life any more

Well, never mind about him now. Are you seeing a solicitor next week? Do you have numbers to call? The finances are complicated and you will need some good advice. Keep focussed on you and your daughter. He can sort his own life out.

he wants a single life

he's got it

what a pity he had to ruin your life in the process

don't you dare feel sorry for him, when he relaises the grass isn't greener

this man will drift from relationship to relationship...hurting people along the way

let him go

let it go

you will find someone else who shares your values, this man is not that person and he never has been

oh skye
you are going to be OK
i know the pain is dreadful right now, but try to hang on to the idea that all you need do is get through this time, and then it will be over, and then you can be happy.

you will never know his mind. he's a closed book, all of us are, others only know what we tell them. i know that for the next few weeks, even months, you may torture yourself looking for reasons... but again, try to remember, those reasons aren't yours and they are not your responsibility.

you didn't do anything wrong.
you loved and trusted someone you should have been able to love and trust. but he broke your trust, for his own reasons. that is not your fault.

The other thing about reasons is that they aren't really reasons. He wanted out - probably because there is someone else - and all the criticism of you is him looking for a reason to explain why he wants out. That's all. To look for sense and honesty from him is wasting your time.

Make a list of everything that needs to be done. Try not to blame yourself.

I agree he wants a single life, and though it seems impossible now, the next step is to stop torturing yourself over what he wants / what he could have been thinking. I mean this kindly - it's irrelevent now, because now you must focus on what you can plan to make YOUR life (and that of your daughter) happy and fulfilling. And yes, it will be! Without him messing with your head!

well I already have a holiday booked in July for us. I was hoping he would come too, but obviously not now. My mum will probably come down for a couple of nights which will be nice, but even if she doesnt, I booked this for my daughter as she loves the characters in the entertainment and I dont want her to be let down by not having a holiday, so that is in 2 months time and hopefully I will be a lot stronger by then anyway..

I know that I am the lucky one who will see my daughter grow up each and every day, while he will only see her once a week or once a fortnight, whatever we decide ultimately. I think that every Sunday is good at the moment as she is only 4 and a fortnight is a long time for her not to see him.

I am going to ring solicitors tomorrow and see if I qualify for legal aid and where I stand on the house etc. He gave me back any joint cards last week, so he cant spend any money, although he can access the joint account online. I will ring the bank tomorrow to change the bank account. He didnt pay any money in last week as he forgot........ so hopefully he wont forget again.....

you will be stronger by July, I guarantee it

and you will give your dd a lovely holiday

he "forgot" to pay money in ?

it's going to get very bumpy, my love, you are going to have to get very, very strong

AF is right. The "forgot" is a bit worrying. Glad you have plans for next week.
Keep going. It's like a tightrope walk. Head up, look forward, one step at a time.

I just put the rest of his stuff outside the door. When he left he took his clothes and that was about it. So now he has all the rest of his crap too. 3 boxes and 2 bin bags. Thats the total sum of belongings that he has in this house... he came with very little, he is also leaving with very little . He can have some towels, bedding, glasses, cutlery etc when he moves into his new place and his chest of drawers and his armchair, but theres not much else he can take without depriving our daughter as we dont have any spare furniture.

skye...you know that stubborn streak we all (well, maybe just me) said you had when you were still singlehandedly trying to save your relationship, it will serve you well right now

That's it clear him out of your house & it'll help. Honestly it's a classic tale of narcissistic man I'm afraid. Fell in love & moved in with you quickly. Was wonderfully considerate & caring to start with. Then became selfish & self centred after real life & parenthood kicked in

Oh honey

That's a ridiculous reason for leaving! What a twat!

I really am struggling today, having to think about all these things that I never ever thought I would have to do. I thought he was my husband for life, we would grow old and grey together. He is no oil painting but I loved him for who he was. He had a lovely personality. He was shy and lacked confidence and couldnt organise his way out of a paper bag, but I loved him despite all his faults. He loved me for all mine too, to start with. He used to laugh at my sarcastic comments, take them with a pinch of salt like they were intended, but somewhere along the line he stopped laughing and took them to heart.

But even for everything he put in his letter, we used to sit and talk and laugh and every night we went to bed and cuddled up to go to sleep. Every night! we made love 2 or 3 times a week at least. How could he do that if he didnt even like the person that I was. Im really struggling with that aspect of things, that on paper he says he was unhappy for years, didnt know how to comfort me when my aunt died as it was too awkward, yet he was quite happy to kiss me and make love to me.... How the hell was I supposed to know there was anything wrong!

I know its all irrelevant now and I cant change a thing, but its driving me crazy.. We both see things very differently, like he says he always took our daughter to the park on his own, or in the garden and I never wanted to go. I said I was usually getting dinner or tea and it was supposed to be a good thing for them to have some time together! He says I didnt care when he was ill before Christmas, yet I remember pushing him to go to the doctor, then when he was told he couldnt have an appointment for a week, I made him ring back and they gave him one the next day and he needed antibiotics for a severe chest infection. I had a stomach bug at the same time as he was ill and was in bed for 2 days. I gave him as much care as I was able to at the time! Its like 2 different stories being told.

I know that in order to feel better about himself leaving, he has to make me as bad as possible, to justify what he is doing.

His stories all involve "oh poor meeeeee!"

What a self absorbed like twat!

that's just it

it doesn't mean you have to believe it though

You're right. He's reframing the past (lying) to make himself feel better.

That's fairly contemptible.

You know something skye, my DH and I had exactly the same issue about the park / garden - I thought it was a nice opportunity for him to spend time with the kids, whereas he thought it would be more fun if we all went together as a family. So guess what? He told me how he was feeling, we discussed it and reached a compromise - because that's what adults do! They don't secretly chalk it up as a black mark against you for when he wants a list of "reasons" for leaving you.

This man makes me so angry. What a wanker!!

How the hell was I supposed to know there was anything wrong! There wasn't anything wrong.

Its like 2 different stories being told That's because there are 2 stories being told. Your accurate story and his rewriting of history to justify what he's done, and is continuing to do.

Don't let him make you doubt yourself; you're the one with a grip on reality and he's the one that's writing fiction.

If the poor little flower had truly stopped laughing at your sarcasm and started taking your comments to heart, he would have moved out before he met the ow long ago.

I know you are right. i don't have to believe it. I am NOT that person that he wrote so horribly about. He took all the bad points out of 10 whole years and put them together rather than look at the bad patch of a couple of months. He couldnt tell me stuff as he didnt want to hurt me, yet writes a bitter bile filled letter to end it after a lovely date. He is a total bastard and I really need to hold onto that thought.

He just text to say he will be back at 5.30pm with daughter. I need to get the point across to him that he picks her up and drops her off at a set time. Im not always going to be home all day and I may be out of signal, so it needs to be prearranged.

I'm so sorry. He really hasn't been fair with you and it's not as if you can snap your fingers and be over him.

If only I could.... I go along fine for a few hours, then end up crying again because it never needed to end this way. But I cant turn back the clock and change things.

I have always been a great believer in destiny and what is meant to be will be, but am finding it very hard to apply that to myself at the moment..

I know it's hard but you have to find a way to turn off his words. They say more about him than they do about you.

Some things that can help.
When you feel yourself thinking and overthinking, do something physical.
Have a phrase to stop it. Eg: "I'll listen to that hurtful voice later. Not now." And keep putting it off.
Or this one worked for me.
I allowed myself a limited amount of time to beat myself up. Five minutes. And then that was it for the day. Every time the critical voice came back, I'd say, "I've done that for the day. Come back tomorrow.

I know it sounds mad but it helped me stop hurting myself with what ifs and if only I hads.

Goodness I really feel your pain and feel for you. Bloody well done for putting his stuff outside. You will look back on that one day and laugh. Honestly.

You have had very wise advice on here. He is now revealing himself as the actual the man you married - that lovely considerate bloke was an imposter.

'Idealise, devalue discard'...he is following the script and it is hideously painful to be their victims.

But and it's a wonderful but, you remain the true you - caring, kind, compassionate, a wonderful mother, a caring and loving wife and partner (ignore the crap he has convinced you of re walking all over him. It's utter utter bollocks believe me)

You have your life ahead of you (you are VERY young really! ) and you have your big fat nice heart and personality to carry you along your way. You will be fine but it's going to be a rough ride for a few months.

gather your friends and family around you. Lean on people and ask for help. This is important.

Build your walls around him.

You are dead right to leave any communication re access to him

I bet a pound to a penny his desire for contact with his daughter withers. Which is great as he will just pass out of your lives like a pirate ship into the fog, just as he drifted into it. You will then not have to deal with him.

You will meet someone else. Life goes on.

Life is a heap of shit sometimes. But you will emerge strong and wise from this horrible time.

Get yourself a good solicitor. Yes yes to sorting out the joint account.

He didn't 'forget'...well actually, scrub that: he might well have forgotten...because these types are very able to just delete former 'lovers' from their lives in their desperate quest for the next Mrs Perfect. They never ever find them. Listen to the words of the song 'Jar of Hearts' . Says it all to me.

They are the ones though who don't live a real proper fulfilling life. Their are shadows, they box shadows, they lead meaningless loveless lives as their is no real love or joy at the very core of them

Hope he enjoyes getting a kebab and going to the dog and stick tonight.

Knobfest of the highest order.

<<hugs>>

Idealise, devalue and discard

that is just it

that is what he has done, skye

I am so sorry

So he dropped her off, he smiled and said alright again, i couldnt manage to say anything to him, just took her stuff from him without looking at him, told her to say goodbye to him and shut the door. He loaded up all his stuff. He looks kind of sheepish, not in a bad mood.... He surely cannot expect me to be friendly though now........

Daughter has told me that she went to a restaurant with him and the friends wife and her friend and then they all went for a walk on the beach. and then she went to see her Nan. Whenever we went to see MIL I always suggested a walk on the beach, but we never had time.....

The friends husband stayed at home to look after the dog..... I had reconciled myself to the fact that there was nothing going on there after numerous conversations with both her and my husband but then things like this happen and I get all paranoid again... I could understand it if her H was there, but it was just her and her friend..

My husband, the man who didnt want to be out every weekend, who wanted to be at home. mind you he doesnt really have a home to stay in at the moment does he.... now appears to be out all the time and when i called him on this last week, he said that it was harsh of me to expect him to stay in all the time! The man who never wanted to go out......

you have been suckered, love

best accept it

then you will move on all the quicker

Try not to torture yourself with trying to work out whether there is a significance to the friend, the wife and the friend. As hard as it is, there's nothing you can do about what he does/doesn't do and how often he goes out.
Concentrate on yourself OP, try and distance yourself from him and not concern yourself with how often he goes out and what he's up to - you will only ever know what lines he wants to spin you anyway. Instead, concentrate on what you are up to. There are no guarantees in life, but I can promise this - you will not always feel this way. Life moves on relentlessly and it will take you along with it whether you want it to or not, and in turn you will go through the various stages of grieving for a lost relationship. Then that'll be it. You'll move on. Life WILL get better for you - hang in there.

Ignore first sentence of my post, OP it doesn't make sense.

Ah, he is still on the cheater's script - The Rewriting History section.

They do this to make you look bad and to make them look good.

This can really fuck your mind but remember that you KNOW what really happened.

I know its really hard but you need to start rebuilding your life and that means protecting yourself and DD financially and legally.

Actually I think there is value in your suspicions being re-confirmed because it's so sad to see you again today Skye giving any headspace to your husband's spurious 'complaints' about you. I wish we could persuade you that those aren't the reasons he's bailed out of this marriage. They are lies.

The real reason he bailed was walking on the beach with him and your daughter today and the 'friend' was a cover for their sake, because they knew that your daughter would report back.

The sooner you accept that, the quicker it will be to detach from him and to stop torturing yourself with these accusations that you were a terrible person who made her husband unhappy for years.

Men and women like this - who would rather an abandoned partner blame him/herself are the lowest of the low. They are completely spineless because they don't have the courage to admit that they did something wrong and that this is the reason a marriage is in tatters.

It's so good to see your anger come to the fore now, but it would be better still if you realised that the reasons you've been given are utterly false - and that this woman is no friend of yours and never was.

I know that there was nothing I could do if I didnt realise how he felt

No. There was nothing you could do because he chose to make it so. You are so, so not to blame for what has happened. Not just through his inability to tell you how he was feeling but because it is not your job to bend your entire life around making him happy. You did, from everything you've said, far far more to hang on to this relationship, to take care of him and his feelings and his needs than he ever did for you.

What did he do for YOU? I'm not talking about housework, that's not your job that he happened to pitch in with. He didn't comfort you when your aunt died - too awkward? Couldn't be arsed? Expected you just to man up and get on with it? He failed in this relationship - not because he took your sarcastic comments to heart. Because he was weak, selfish and cowardly. He failed.

Why in hell is the friend's wife out with him on his contact with your DD? Totally inappropriate. And the poor friend is at home minding the DOG? WTAF?? Reiterate earlier advice; know how hard this must be for you but continue with your minimal contact with this man. No contact with this woman. She is not your friend.

Skye I couldn't read and not post.
I'm 8 months on from an email ending my 21yr marriage, it was the most heartbreaking, shocking thing I've ever had to deal with but do you know what? I'm glad he left!
He's no longer the man I was in love with, I fell out of love with him surprisingly quickly.

I have found strength and self-worth I never knew I had.
I'm even having a 'thank god he left' party next month.

There is life after this for you but it may be a rocky road for a while.
You are strong and courageous and you deserve to be treated well.

do dogs not walk on beaches ?

AF - spot on!

AF I thought that, but there was the restaurant first. Even so, leaving the husband at home to mind the dog is one of the most tragic excuses I've ever read.

Why do I suspect she's trained the husband to be more subservient than the dog?

I think that many beaches are closed to dogs... particularly coming up to high season.

I feel angry for the OP as whichever of these two women is the OW, he has introduced his and OP's daughter to them, without OP's knowledge or consent and in a very deceitful way.

Agreed lying witch. Very underhand behaviour. I also still don't understand why the dog needs looking after at all? What about all these times when the OP's husband, friend and wife go to wetherspoons and the cinema etc, why is the dog ok to be left alone then??

Yeah, the husband probably already has made other arrangements

Surely the ow's friend could have walked the dog along the prom while the ow took the same hand-in-hand stroll on the beach that skye enjoyed with her h last weekend, Lying?

And yes, he chose an extremely underhanded and deceitful way to introduce dd to the ow but honesty and integrity aren't his strongpoints.

thanks for all the advice. Im not sure whats going on there, I was convinced nothing, I know people lie, but I honestly didnt think there is anything going on, but I agree when its his contact he should be spending his time with daughter, not with friends as well, but if I say anything I will be the bitter wife who doesnt want him to see his friends... I know that the wife and the friend were playing netball this morning. They had lunch at a carvery pub in his mums village, it also has a small softplay area. But it cant have been a coincidence that they bumped into each other!!

I spoke to his brother just now and his brother said he never told him, he only knew because I texted him! He rang my H and he said yes its over I wrote her this letter. his brother said are you 100% certain mate this is what you want and he said no Im not certain...... TWAT! His brother said move on, dont contact him, let him get in his bedsit feeling sorry for himself and then he may feel different.. But he said by then I will probably be in a totally different place and wouldnt want him back anyway...

His brother said that he wasnt unhappy 12 months ago as he can remember talking to him. He said he is very much behaving out of character. So I have got to stop beating myself up over all this.

It doesnt change the situation. Its still over.

his brother sounds like a wise man

what a pity the genes didn't pass along that blood line

What are you doing right now op? I am watching Lewis on telly and have shoved a home-made chicken curry in the oven.

Got a glass of wine on the go and am doing a bit of sewing... I am making hand-made cards to try to sell.

I am so sorry you are going through all this shock and pain. I went through it some years ago and you do come through it .

It's like the Bear Hunt: "you can't go over it, you can't go under it...you have to go through it." so true.

Any love you have for him will just diein the end because love is like a bloom: it needs nurturing like growing a flower - ie it needs water and sunshine and trimming and re-potting etc. If there is none of that, the plant/love just dies. Love withers if it's not given love back.

One day you and dd will be on a girly break together in Greece and you will be sooo glad you don't have your miserable lying fuckwit of a man in your life.

Yeah brother sounds an honest guy. DH, OW & co - wankers!

Skye, he wasn't unhappy at all until January when he gave the OW a lift to university. Think about Christmas and New Year - I bet he was giving every impression of being happy and content then. Your problems started with this other relationship.

yeah, I feel a bit better in my head after talking to his brother. He doesnt think Im a bad person and he said that my H told him today that his head is fcuked and hes not sure of anything any more. Like I said, it doesnt change anything, but its helped me to get a bit of perspective on everything.

Im sat on the computer swapping between here and chatting to a friend on facebook, but my eyes are really tired now and the cat wants feeding and I need to go to bed.

Need to try and keep this perspective going in my head.

Thanks for all the support everyone.

limitedappeal my daughter loves that book, it drives me crazy, lol

It's like the Bear Hunt: "you can't go over it, you can't go under it...you have to go through it." so true.

But you are right, its so very true..

Sleep well Skye and retrace your memories. Don't let him corrupt or distort them.

So very, very sorry Skye that it didn't work out the way that you wanted!

Take care of yourself!

Taking the child out with other people straight after splitting up is really off and I would be furious.

Children need one-to-one time especially during these unsettling times.

He really is a spineless, selfish, grade A turd.

This reeks to be frank with ref to the OW (cough) 'friend'. She is a massively entitled so-and-so too, interfering with a little child's contact time with her father.

Most decent people would know how inappropriate that is. The fact she/he doesn't is very telling and it speaks volumes as to where both their priorities are centred.

Grrrrrrrrrr..................

See, I'd want to write back to him and point out that his account of the last however many years is bollocks flawed. Just so that it doesn't stand as the last word on the relationship.

Remind him what you've told us: that you were also ill when he was and despite that,helped him re: doctor's appointment; that when you were on the PC/TV, he was too; that you organised your lives because he wasn't doing so and that someone needed to. But most of all, how DARE he complain of being unhappy when he DID NOT TELL YOU - more than that, gave every impression of things being fine. Tell him it's bullshit and that you will not accept sole responsibility for the demise of a relationship that was 50% his responsibility too.

I did email him back after I got the letter snd pointed all of the above out to him. The friends wife texted me today and said that he is now thinking if moving back to where he came from about a 2-3 hour drive away. I said that's not fair on his daughter I don't want her time with him spent in a van on the motorway , he would have to have her every other weekend for a full weekend. What about his business? He's just not thinking straight about anything at all. He went home very quiet and shocked that all his stuff was in the drive but she said to him well what do you expect ....

skye, you are still in the dance

you need to stop talking about him with this woman

why aren't you listening to us on this ?

AF is right. Stop thinking about him and her and what he is going to do. Think about access and contact that seems right for your daughter. You will have to think about how often and when. There is something helpful material on some website. CAFCAS maybe. Somebody else will know.

Think about money and work out what you need to live.

Make an appointment with a lawyer asap.

Forget about him and his stuff and what some third party said.

I made the mistake you're making and it drags things out for so long.

Because I am still convinced really that nothing is going on there , I can't really explain it I know it all looks bad but i just don't get the vibe from either of them that there is something going on after talking to both of them about everything. She wants to chuck him out so he's on his own but her husband won't do that

he's left you love

why are you so interested (apart from how it affects your dd) about what his living arrangements are ?

would it actually help you to get proof that his and his friend's wife are havin/have had an inappropriate relationship ?

for many of us on your thread, we think it is so, even if they haven't shagged

this woman is getting some kind of kick out of pulling your strings and being in the middle of your drama...all of this has fuck-all to do with her (if there is nothing gone on), so why is she sticking her beak right into all the details of it ?

I simply don't understand why you are letting her yank your chain

Horses mouth, FFS get info from the horses mouth or don't bother.

If you want the fuckwit man back tell him straight, if hes still dithering concentrate on DC and whats best for DC and take up another hobby

let him get in his bedsit feeling sorry for himself and then he may feel different.. But he said by then I will probably be in a totally different place and wouldnt want him back anyway...

Hopefully you will be in place as mentally far away from him as possible. Yes let him get in his bedsit- then let him rot there. Don't allow yourself to have ANY pity for this man even if he begs for forgiveness. He has shown you his true colours Skye.

In regard to your "friend" I don't know if he has or hasn't had more than a friendship with her. But something doesn't seem right. If he has/is .....

i just don't get the vibe from either of them
They're not going to openly tell you or show you, are they?

She wants to chuck him out so he's on his own but her husband won't do that
Why do you think that is? You DON'T shit on your own doorstep. If there's something between them, of course she wants him to leave.

Personally, I would tell this woman to stop contacting me, keep her nose out of my business, if she wants to play mummy, agony aunt shit stirrer then go fuckoffdo it somewhere else.

Be strong Skye, start putting plans into action to help you go forward. Stop thinking about the what if's, you have the facts that you need....HE bailed out of your marriage and tried to make it your fault. He doesn't deserve another minute of your time or energy.
Good luck x

You really really do need to get all these extra people out of your marriage and your life. It is not helping having her text you with your husband's innermost thoughts and it is actually insulting to you that he is still confiding in her and not in you.

I would text her saying 'thanks but I need to speak directly with my husband from now on, please don't text anymore about this situation'.

Actually I would text something entirely different, but that's a different approach.

mumsy, that alternative text would have the words "off" and "fuck" in it, wouldn't it ? Don't be shy now.

Skye just wanted to say I'm so sorry about what you're going through and your (hopefully stbx) h is a selfish idiot.

You need to completely stop communicating with that woman, ignore her texts, cut her out. It doesn't matter if there's a relationship between then or not she's stirring it up and anything you say to her goes straight to him for him to use to fuck with you.

If he doesn't contact you about access to your daughter don't contact him. Just say, I'm not sure sweetheart I'm waiting for him to call. If you take responsibility for their relationship she will hold you responsible for it.

You sound so strong. Good luck with the lawyer!

When I rang BIL it was to say goodbye really, but he said it will never be goodbye, you have been family for 10 years and are still family despite what H is saying. He said its between me and H and they are not thinking that Im a bad person or anything. I wasnt going to talk about H, but he started to and then when he said that H had told him yesterday that his head is fucked and he doesnt know what he wants any more, it just threw me.

BIL told H that he cant expect us to be friends (he seems to think he can dump me and I will still be nice to him). He knew all along that coming in for tea etc would stop if it were totally over. BIL and his ex are friends now, but it took them years to get to that point and my H seems to think it can happen overnight. When he first left he was saying things like in a couple of months we can have family days out. Err no, you have left the family?!

I wont text him again about daughter, he needs to realise that some things in life do need to be organised. He can have her a bit longer too and give her tea, not bring her back at 5.30pm starving hungry!

It might be an idea to get access arrangements agreed so that everyone is aware what is happening and when etc. The solicitors will probably advise you on how to formalise this.

If he doesn't contact you about access to your daughter don't contact him. Just say, I'm not sure sweetheart I'm waiting for him to call. If you take responsibility for their relationship she will hold you responsible for it.

I think that's very wise.

I still think you need to cut off contact with that woman!! And anyone associated with him. Don't phone his family either. Distance yourself. It's the only way.

I know I need to distance myself, its none of my concern what he does now, much as it kills me not to know what he is doing every day :-( We never spent much time apart, we were always together when not working, so it is very difficult for me.

I am seeing 2 solicitors tomorrow, one is a free half hour appointment, the other is £60 for about 3/4 of an hour, but he is an expert, been doing this for 30 years. I feel that I am doing something positive, but just know that Im not going to get through either appointment without crying.... But hopefully I will come out knowing a lot more than I do at the moment about how the whole separation/divorce/finances thing works.

I am just crying again now at the thought of having to do all this, the one thing I never thought I would have to do, divorce my husband. I love him so much and cant see how that is ever going to go away, despite whats happened. I dont want to have to face life without him. I feel so sad and lonely. Friends have been great but they cant be here all the time and I desparately want people to talk to....

I know it's hard now like a bereavement but honestly in time you'll look at him & think thank god I got shot of him & how did I ever fancy him - yuk!!

you have us ! < tries to help in a small, small way >

Poor you. It feels unbearable, I know. That's because it is unbearable. But weirdly, you do bear it. I know when I decided to divorce my husband. It was the worst thing I could imagine and yet there I was, still standing. It felt like a miracle.

Your salvation - although you don't know it yet - is that you are feeling it. You have to experience it. He's running away. To what? A woman? His youth? Some crash. But you are being brave and sitting with the pain. And, in the long run, that's better than pretence and denial.

Beyond that, all I can say is that I do feel for you, anonymous though it all is.
And it will get better. Not overnight or even at a steady pace but, overall, it will get better.

"Some crash" was a weird typo. And, well done for contacting the solicitors.

Skye, you won't be the first person to have cried in the solicitor's office and you won't be the last. It will be upsetting, you did not choose this and you are still in love with your husband, it's him that has chosen this path. YOu are doing the right thing though, ploughing on, it will get easier, but not in the next few days I don't think. Take care of yourself, talk with these friends and spend time with your dd. You will get through it, but there will be ups and downs on the way.

Just cancelled the lottery direct debit as the account is in his name. Be just my luck the bastard would win the lottery and then refuse to share it! Have started a new account with new numbers for myself - just 1 play a week on a Saturday :-) I changed his email details on the account so he will be notified that its been stopped........

Anything else to cancel? Anything else which isn't your responsibility? His car insurance?

You are on a roll! Well done sky. Its these small acts which will ultimately help you to feel a little bit of empowerment in a situation which has left you feeling powerless. I cannot imagine what you are going through but your efforts to reconcile have failed. So you must must step back and build your own life away from him. Who knows, given time he may step up to you and come back if given space to miss you and come to senses... Or better still during that time you will come to yours and realise that you no longer need or want him!

Skye I found it helpful to write everything down that I needed to say before I saw my solicitor. Any future appointments, I emailed him with everything I wanted to discuss the day before seeing him. It all helped, saved a lot of time too.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Stay strong

the car thankfully has always been registered, taxed and insured in my name as he had a van to insure. We bought the car last May on a 0% credit card that was just about to expire, so I cashed in my ISA to pay most of that off and put a small amount on another 0% card for 17 months so I should be able to pay it off in that time.

All that is left on the joint account now that is solely for him is the life insurance (which needs to be paid I think while we are sorting things out, as it will still come to me at the moment) and his Class 2 NIC. But while he is paying money into the account I am happy for those things to be paid out. All other payments are for utilities. I need to sit down and do a spreadsheet and look at the total costs of living here. My oil has nearly run out, I know I shouldnt need the heating for much longer (but its bloody cold some nights!), but it also does the hot water and if it runs out I will incur an engineer cost to sort it out, so may as well just buy some more oil, but have no savings to do so! as just spent all savings on car insurance. If Id known he was going to walk out a fortnight after it was paid, I would have put it on monthly instalments! and he cost me £50 more due to his mobile phone points......

I need to get my will changed, we had mirror wills, so left everything to each other. I wont remind him to change his though..... I need to leave everything to my daughter in trust.....

I have made a list for the solicitor, which will hopefully help me to stay focussed and answer the questions that I need answered.

Can anyone give me any advice re questions for the solicitor? I have a huge list but may have missed something...

Skye, really really glad that you are getting onto the practicalities, whatever happens it'll be good to have that side of things sorted. Sounds like you're on a roll!

Worried though that you are still communicating with OW ( his living arrangements are not your problem, and her chinese whispers on his feelings about you are - whatever her motives - irrelevant, it is your relationship and up to him to communicate if he wants to). Also concerned that you're still looking for signs that he will return, eg in what BIL said.

If he does comes back having said everything he's said in his letter, and you take him back, without any change in mindset from either of you, then he will never ever change and you will have to be a stepford wife to keep him. You and dd deserve better.

Did BIL have anything to say about his brother's past form with leaving relationships?(an earlier post mentioned he did something similar when rsp with his ex ended).

Think there is info in legal on qs for solicitors, hope it goes ok tomorrow, try to focus on the practical for th duration, then you can crumble after!

Dozer BIL did give me a little hope that he still doesnt know what hes doing, and maybe he is in some sort of crisis. He is now acting totally irrationally over everything, ie, wanting to move away now, from daughter, all his family, friends, business etc. but I am also certain that it changes nothing. He couldnt organise his way out of a paper bag, so unfortunately I will have to be the controlling woman that he hates and sort the divorce myself even though its not what I want I have been left with no choice. If he is still in some sort of headfuck and changes his mind further down the line, then there is no way I will greet him with open arms, he would need to agree to councelling, marital or otherwise to ensure that he would speak up in future. and I would need to be myself, although maybe with less sarcasm :-). and it would take a very long time to sort out if we should be together, BUT I dont think it will happen anyway.

BIL did say that he did the same to his ex. They were actually about to try for IVF due to problems on both sides (our daughter was conceived naturally though), he decided that he didnt want a child with her, to be tied to her and just walked. (to be fair though she had cheated on him repeatedly over the years, so it wasnt a great relationship). He just walked out on her because he had enough and that time he ran off to friends who lived miles and miles away, stayed there for a few days, then came home and moved back in with his mum for a bit, then ran away down here to live with his friend (the same friend he is staying with now). He moved to this (very small) town when he got work here.

I remember my H saying that he stayed with his ex because it was better than nothing. I guess hes not prepared to do that this time.... although I do realise that would be wrong if he did stay when he didnt want to.

Sky, you are doing well - keep focusing on the practicalities. Will give you something to hang on to when emotions are getting the better of you. Remember to stay detached and contact with him only, about your daughter and legalities only. Keep it formal. You are making great strides in such a short space of time. Well done.

He's a serial twunt then - telling a woman he wants a baby with her so badly that they will start IVF & then runs away!!! Oh god!! He's a charmer isn't he?!!

Midwife! You stalking me? [Grin]

What the hell did I do wrong?? 'Grin' in brackets? Wtaf?? SKY, sorry to hijack thread. Sorry midwife, just teasing - I'm absolutely hundred percent sure you have better things to do than follow me! [Grin]

Oh ffs

Try again

Lower case g!

Got it! Thanks poopoo sorry Sky.

I am having such a shit day today, Im at a clients working. Checked into facebook just now and hes on it, so hes obviously not working again today. I know that work has dried up, but if hes not earning, then its going to cause problems for me...

i just cant bear the thought of going to the solicitors this afternoon. Its really not something I ever ever thought i would have to do. If anybody asks how I am I start crying. I can barely face the school run taking her to preschool. Im on the verge of tears all the time. I suffer from bad PMS as well which doesnt help anything...

I keep thinking I should go to the doctor and see if they can help, but then i dont want to end up on pills. But I have been feeling so frustrated and angry for so long and it has helped to end my marriage, i can see that now. Maybe the PMS is more severe than I thought it was, I just dont know.

All I want is to be happy for my daughter and give her a loving home, not a mother who cries at the drop of a hat.

sapphire, it's the start of a road. you will feel better but it will be up and down. just try to get through days one hour at a time.

You won't always feel like this. It will pass. Its like grief, you go through all the stages.

Ahh Skye, stop beating yourself. He DIDN'T leave you because of your PMS hun.

Stop torturing yourself, un-friend him on facebook, what he chooses to do is not your concern now, you're just wasting your time and energy and keeping the raw wounds open. How he gets money to pay for shared bills or your Dc is his concern, so long as he gets it.

If you don't go to your solicitor appt today then you will have to go later, so best to get it over with. All your doing is finding out where you stand and what needs to be done, it's better to know these things for future reference and saves you from adding to your stress at the moment, by thinking about the unknown. Nothing will happen to finalise things unless you want it to.

You're entitled to be upset, you're going through a huge change in your life, it is like a bereavement in lots of ways. No one will blame you for being emotional.

P.S get yourself to the GP and talk about you pms, I suffered terribly until I was prescribed Pyridoxine (vitamin B6) women with bad pms are often deficient in B6 as we don't get nearly enough from food. My moods changed dramatically.
Magnesium supplements to lesson cramps and back pain.
Evening primrose oil to help balance hormones.

Sorry to hear you are having a bad day. I would think about going to the Dr to get some help - you have responsibilities and need to look after yourself.

As for having felt frustrated and angry - people who have been cheated on will know what I mean when they realise just how much they reacted to their cheating partner's withdrawal and distance, not realising why they felt that way. For me it was like bumping into glass walls - I couldn't understand what was really happening and thought it was work, stress, kids and every day life getting to us.

skye seriously, medication can actually help you more than you know. there are specific meds designed for short-term "reactive" depression (i.e., depression caused by life events, not by a chemical imbalance or a physical illness) that can just help you through this time. they're not long term, they're usually used for 3-6 months at a stretch.

it's not about you being "weak" or "needing" medication, it's about using tools that are available to you, to get through a v shitty time that another person has forced you into.

it can give you some control over what's happening. rather than being at the mercy of your H's whims iyswim.

i am so sorry you are feeling so shit. this time is very very hard and you have every right to feel crap. it would be illogical for you not to feel that.

at the same time though, you are within your rights to do whatever you can to get yourself (and your DD) through this time in one piece emotionally.

Oh love - you're bound to struggle at the mo! I agree - unfriend on FB. No more involvement - go to see GP - you need support at the mo & short term ADs might help get you through the next few months. Not your fault!!

There will be days like this and I feel for you. It's agony. You just have to feel it and it will pass.

In the meantime:
- stay off FB
- see the solicitor. If he's not working, all the more reason to get legal advice sooner rather than later.
- go to the GP. Pills can be great.

Take care. And, if it helps, keep posting.

Hope solicitors went well (if you made it) - try not to be so hard on yourself. Hope you're feeling a wee bit better.

I did go to the solicitors today, saw 2 who gave me different advice :-/

But he cant kick me out of the house, he probably wont get a big share due to what I put down from the sale of my old house, hopefully he will agree to this and he only gets whats due in 14 years when daughter 18, or if I sell or remarry before then.

Solicitor agrees inappropriate contact with friends wife and this can be part of the unreasonable behaviour, along with him refusing to communicate etc.

The solicitor wanted to start divorce today, but I said wait a few weeks, but I know in my heart that my husband isnt going to change his mind and if he did it would never be right again and I would never trust him for one thing.

I so want to ring her husband and fill him in, see if he can check her phone when shes not looking, but Im afraid he wont believe me and will tell them what I have said. I will have to think on it. I need to call him when he is at work, so I know hes not with either of them two, but he may just think Im a stirring cow. But it may be enough to put the seed of doubt in his head. Maybe I should sit on it until after divorce, so that it cant affect my settlement or anything.... then when I have nothing to lose, I could just let him know that I was concerned about them and see what he says. I know I can prove the quantity of texts up to April, but if she hasnt deleted them, then he may be able to see something on her phone. My H deleted his, so I couldnt see what they said, although the last one sent was always there and it never showed anything odd...

The thing is, skye, he's living in the same house as the two of them (which is deeply odd). And he's apparently happy to be left babysitting a friggin dog whilst they jaunt off to the seaside with your dd. So I don't think you can really open his eyes to what's going on - it's happening right up in his face. Either he chooses not to see it or this inappropriate relationship actually isn't physical and so "it's all fine". I'd be very surprised if he knew about the volume of texts, though, so it might be worth throwing that into conversation at some point. But I don't think he'll take any notice of you now, and it's far more likely he's turning a blind eye in any case.

I understand why you want to wait to start divorce proceedings. But it may just be prolonging the agony.

good advice there from tribpot. On the subject of divorce - start it when you are ready. wait a few weeks if you feel you need to. but don't wait for him. there's no rush. one step at a time sky. well done for going to solicitors; what is your next step or your 'plan' so to speak?

My next step is to see what money he continues to pay in (or not), maybe make an appointment for the end of June with the solicitor. I want to get in first with the divorce because I can petition him then rather than him hit me with unreasonable behaviour :-/ If he counter sues it makes it all more difficult. But apparently I should qualify for legal aid and that stops next April, so the solicitor said I shouldnt hang about, lol. Not that I should rush into it just because its free....

I suppose I just want to give him that one last chance, but I know really that its never going to happen.....

On facebook he has binned everybody he knows from his life here. I only looked because my friend said she was blocked and now the only mutual friends we have are his family and a couple of his friends. He has binned all my family and anybody he knew here (apart from me). I keep thinking about blocking him and unfriending him, but it seems so final (silly I know if we are divorcing!!!!!). I am still friends on fb with all his family as it seemed silly to dump them all and its nice to see how the kids are doing etc. I am godmother to 2 of them as well.

I have a girls night out planned in a couple of weeks, maybe a meal, certainly some drinks! am afraid I'll end up crying in the corner though..... arranged it when I thought things were going well with him so was on a bit of a high. Me and alcohol dont mix well when Im depressed, lol. But I also have a trip to the hairdresser the following day, so something to look forward to, get my highlights done.

I'm half asleep - will reply properly in morning sky - don't want to read and run; leaving u hanging! Good night, hope you sleep well. Very un mums netty hug from me.

One word of warning re legal aid - you have to pay it back one day so don't be gung ho re costs. Keep it simple! I ended up with an £11,000 charge on my house for legal aid thanks to ex twunt's love of appearing in court!

Sky that he has binned his family shows how deluded he is. 'New life' and all that. What he is running away from is:
'whereever you go, there you are'. Please make this HIS problem and not yours.

You don't have to bin his family if you get on with them! You are now related to them, through your dd.

'His behaviour, DOES NOT determine you worth'.

your worth.

Yes, I also wanted to say you don't need to wipe yourself out of his family's life, they are your daughter's family, as he is indeed her father, and so some contact will be appropriate through this. My dad (divorced) still calls to see my grandmother, he was her son-in-law for 25+ years and that doesn't all go away when you split up.

Someone up thread said perhaps your dd's dad will just slip away and lose interest in her and that would be better, just the two of you. Although this must seem very tempting, I don't agree this is better in most situations, children are apt to feeling abandoned by the parent who has left. So, as much as you can, I think you have to leave the door open for his parenting and involvement and not say bad things about him, even though the temptation must be to tell him to never darken your door again. This is why it can be better to make formal arrangements, mediation perhaps?

Sounds like the night out and the highlights are something to look forward to! The facebook thing is similar to my ex husband but he went whole hog and deleted and blocked me and all of my family and friends. Onwards and upwards. I'm getting married in august - never would have met my fiance if had stayed with the ex hubby...

Well done for forcing yourself to the solicitors Skye. Now you know where you stand with the house and stuff. Move to the next stage (starting the divorce) when you're ready to do so.
I wouldn't block his family on FB if you get on with them but him, I would have already.
Regarding the "friend" I wouldn't say anything for now, while it's all still so fresh. If the H doesn't know/suspects then it could come across as you just looking to blame someone iykwim. Keep it for later then speak with him. Just absolutely make sure you discuss nothing with HER about your life now and what your plans are.
Enjoy your night out with your friends, you deserve some fun and to be happy again. Hopefully by then you will feel stronger and more positive about your situation but if you still feel a bit weepy then that's ok too, I'm sure your friends will understand. xx

so, up and down day again today, managed to tell a couple of people who didnt know about it, without crying, so thats a kind of advancement. Am very tired as daughter kept me awake half the night, then in the end, climbed into my bed and put on her baby sleeping bag.. its been in the airing cupboard for months (she used to cuddle it while sleeping but gave it up when she gave up her dummies). But she spotted it and since husband left has been cuddling it or sleeping in it again. Its obviously comforting to her. Last night she put on a pull up and she hasnt been in them for well over a year. Again Im assuming its a comfort thing to her. She was very disturbed last night, then came in around 4am and went straight to sleep. i dont have a problem as long as its not every night.

Still maintaining facebook silence. I used to post several times a day, what I was doing etc, on my phone or the computer, but am not posting anything now, so he has no idea what we are up to.

Had a text from friends wife today, saying that he is very quiet, hasnt had much work on and has had time to think. I replied, well it wont make a difference anyway. She text back dont rush into a divorce, I text back well if hes not going to change his mind, its the only option and no point hanging around!

She contacted me first, I am not asking her for updates on him like I was, as no point now, he is nothing to do with me any more.

He didnt see daughter today, he has got dentist tomorrow (at the end of our road) and I did say last week that he could see her after that if he wanted, but that was before it all went tits up last Thursday. Surely he wont still think that stands? If he does, he will have to take her somewhere, he cant come in here! But if I dont hear from him I will just take her to toddlers as planned. He cant just expect things to happen, they have to be arranged. He can go fuck himself if he cant be arsed to arrange it.

I think I would tell this friend to bugger off. Tell her you have made up your mind as to how you wish to progress the situation and her comments are neither helpful or wanted.

Outline that your marriage is strictly between your husband and yourself and you have had quite enough of her overbearing presence in your marriage.

Absolutely agree with your last statement.

Small step by step moves forward Skye and you will get there.
Ah there's nothing wrong with your daughter wanting her blanket again, you're right it's probably just for comfort but if you keep everything around her as normal as possible she should soon settle back down again.
It's not your responsibility to maintain the relationship between father and daughter, it's his.

Tell the friends wife to piss off and stop poking her nose in, it's not her business.

Yes, I really really don't think it can be productive to discuss this with the friend. At best there is every chance she is sharing the content of the texts with your ex. And frankly she can't expect to be advising both of you, it wouldn't be fair on anyone. She chose to share thousands of texts with him so it seems pretty clear she's chosen him ... fine. But shut her out of your head, I don't think she will help.

skye, you are doing so well

I know it won't feel like it, but you are

I also saw you on another thread today, offering support to someone else and that is quite remarkable x

Thanks. I do appreciate the support I had here, like I said in the other thread, I know I chose not to take some of the advice, but I really had to go my own way. I am a stubborn person and I suppose I wanted to fight til the bitter end. At least now I know in my own mind that I could have done no more to save my marriage.

Even now I still cant help hoping that he will come back! How stupid is that :-(

I did feel sorry for the OP that I posted on and whilst Im sorry that anybody is in the same position as me, it helps to take my mind off my own problems by reading about everybody elses iykwim.

Skye, well done re solicitor and other positive steps.

Your PMS was not a factor in the problems. This was not your fault. You can't see all his flaws yet, but we can by his behaviour, he cannot cope with normal work, family, relationship, and has treated you both appallingly, not because you or your marriage wasn't right but because HE wasn't/isn't right (and you, loving him, let him treat you badly).

Please stop contact with the woman. Unhealthy.

It's telling that despite feeling terrible you are managing to care for DD and work, whereas he isn't earning and is pissing about. Don't count on getting money from him .

People who know more about these things, how might OP seek regular maintenance for DD?

hey, I think I called you "stubborn" a couple of times

but you are right, skye

I always defend MN when some people come on to say all the posters who say "leave the bastard" are marriage-wrecking harpies

no

I expect the people who ask for advice here to use what they find helpful, and discard the rest (thoughtfully, because posters use their own time to try and give different perspectives)

You are still sending messages to him (via OW) that you want him back. He thinks he can have you whenever he wants. This doesn't show devoltion, it devalues you in his eyes.

If you do really want him back (and you know MNetters views about that!), the only chance is surely to let him really, really believe he is losing you.

Gosh, no-one could blame you for hoping. From what you say he's only been behaving like an arse for a few months, after years of being a good partner. You can't just switch off from that; you'd be a strange, cold fish if you could. However, you have to protect yourself and DD, which means acting on the assumption he is not coming back.

yes. I think I need to make an appointment with the solicitor for maybe the middle of June, the week after half term so I have childcare and go for it then... Its so soul destroying going down this road. I still just want to smack him round the head repeatedly til he sees sense!

But everything is different now anyway, the trust is gone for one thing because he hid all the contact with her and couldnt see he was doing anything wrong. I would always be fearing that he wasnt happy and would have to interrogate him on every single decision to be sure he wanted to do it and wasnt being walked over. Every single comment that came out of my mouth, I would be afraid would be too sarcastic. I would not be able to be myself, as that is the person he doesnt like any more. He suddenly wants town life after country life for 10 years. He needs to be able to work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (although currently sat on his arse doing sod all...). So it would never work.

It would never work, It would never work. I just need to write that over and over like a school punishment and maybe just maybe I will start to believe it..

You are doing really well.
You are an incredibly strong woman.
You just can't see it yet, but you are.
Well done you.x

Just popped in to see how things are going. You are doing well, better than you realise. Well done.

And skye you realise in that nightmare scenario you paint above, the relationship is all still about him and whether you can please him enough to make him stay. He would hold all the power in the relationship. The power of leaving you again, of how damaging it would be for your dd to have him come back and go again, and how much you would strive to avoid that for her sake. It sounds kind of frightening. And certainly not a way to live.

Good to see you've been to the solicitors Skye and it was interesting to read that they thought this relationship with the friend's wife was unreasonable behaviour. Perhaps it took someone telling you that in real-life to take what we've been saying to you, seriously.

Which is why you must stop responding to this woman's texts. Everything you say will get back to your husband, either verbatim or twisted to suit her agenda. The next time she texts, reply: "Thanks for your concern. I've decided that it's best that we don't communicate for a while so please give me some space while I work things out for my daughter and I" - and don't respond to anything else she sends.

Skye, so he wants freedom "to work"? Well, he has more than enough time and space to work hard while you look after DD and deal with real-life, and work yourself. He can do as he wishes, subject to him having DD as agreed and being reliable for her. He can pursue his work and earn money, some of which you/she are due.

Let's see what he actually does.

so he just texted to ask if he could have daughter on sunday. i texted back - why dont we have a standing arrangement you pick her up at 10am, bring her back at 7pm after tea. I will let you know if I want to go swimming and meet you in XXXXXX.

Brief and to the point I thought, lol. He texted back, sounds good to me, thanks. grovelling little bastard.

Now give her a bugger off text....... She will report right back.

That will get him reeling - that with the formalising of contact too.

Way to go.

Great - now apply the same new found ice cold attitude to ow & tell her you don't wish to discuss your private life with her anymore & ask that she stops texting.

she texted me earlier, her and her female friend are off on a cruise in a fortnight. Her H works in a factory with set holiday shutdown times so he cant go away until half term and didnt want to go anyway, so shes off on a girlie holiday with her friend..... how nice for her!

I was a bit of a bitch earlier too and posted a video of my daughter on facebook, its her on the swing shouting I love you Mummy, I love you Mummy! Thought it might hurt him. What a bitch I am :-/ He put a like on it though....

your "friend" hates you

can't you see it ?

I think if I just dont reply to her, she will get the message and I mustnt text her any more either.

Got an awkward situation in August, got tickets to see Michael Macintyre, we booked ours, then they managed to get tickets next to us, so its her, her H and her friend going. and meant to be me and my H. Well I thought about just giving him the tickets and saying go, although for the man who never wants to go anywhere as we were out too much.... anyway, its a ticketless event, so I have to go with photo ID and credit card to get the ticket!!

So assuming I wont want to go with him and them!!!!!! If I go with a friend, we will have to sit next to them and my H will miss out.... Theres no other way of doing it as we live nearly 3 hours from the venue so its not like I can collect the tickets and pass them over is it?! I will have to see what happens in the next couple of months. Maybe I just wont go.

Just had a thought! Thank christ we didnt split last year as we saw Take That in May! I would have been gutted to miss that, lol.

I agree she is a stirring bitch & you need to detach from her as well as ex. Unfriend him on FB.

I really really think you have to stop texting her.

I really really would not be that surprised to discover your ex goes with her on this cruise, mind - what with 'having no work on'. However, the reason I mention it is so you can be prepared for sporadic contact whilst she's away.

Re: the tickets, I assume there's an option to return them to the venue for resale? It's hardly Michael McIntyre's only gig, and I can't see why you would want to go with them - with or without your DH.

I am proud of you sky! (Sorry if sound patronising, don't mean to ) in such a short space of time u are already beginning to 'wise up' and create the space for yourself that u need. Well done! You have thought about contact - and what suits you. You are forward thinking. You have opened your eyes to previously unthinkable horrible possibilities of the problems that husband's friend's wife presents... Well done you. Onwards and upwards my friend

Return the tickets. Is only a gig.

And do not go swimming with him and DD on sunday! (think said this waaaaaay back, is like deja vu).

Oh crap I didn't realise the swimming thing meant you would be going together. Bugger that for a game of soldiers.

No not swimming with him I don't mean that, it's just easier to meet him there if I want to go swimming otherwise he will come here snd I will follow him to the pool on the same road. It's at my convenience that's what I meant. I will not be doing anything as a family ever again (sadly)

And tickets are non refundable. But I will see nearer the time. I would rather waste them than go and feel uncomfortable. Plus you never know what might come out of the woodwork before then... I hope not though

Ok so now I'm all confused again and all of my own doing.... Had text from her I moaned about him not seeing daughter, she said it's nothing to do with her I need to speak to him as he thinks I'm calling the shots and he can't see her I said no I'm just trying not to organise the man who said I controlled him and left for him to contact me. She said u need to speak as saying different things. She said I'm pushing him into a divorce that he doesn't want, that he's still confused and doesn't know what he wants and that he doesn't want to ask me for time if I don't want to give it to him. All I ever did was stress he could have time!!! she said he keeps talking about what ifs and if we could have sorted it but all I did was push him.

Then he text me to say we need to talk u can text me and I said no u ring me. Then he told me to stop texting her as she doesn't want to be in the middle of it any more. So I text her to apologise and she said i had upset her when I blamed her for the end of my marriage snd all she had ever done was stand up for me.

He is going to ring me tonight to talk, but tonight there will be no elephant I will make sure of that , he talks about his feelings or we get nowhere.

Now I am confused to hell as is he........ but surely we have to be either sorting it out or separated! There is no in between is there where we are apart but he might change his mind?? That would kill me.

Please don't shout at me!!! All advice gratefully received...

He and she are now both blaming you for hurting her feelings! Your H is more concerned that you are upsetting her than he is about how hurt you are.

What do you hope to gain from this telephone chat? I think you are just going to end up more hurt if you had it. I would not engage with him any more about your marriage right now.

I know everyone told you this on previous threads and you did your own thing which you thought was right however you are still letting this all hang over you and carry on in the hopes that he might change his mind. You have to stop sometime before it tears you apart.

I suggest sending him an email stating,

He has stated your relationship is over therefore divorce is the way forward as why the fuck should you stay married to someone who doesn't want to be in a relationship with you?

He has stated you are controlling, therefore would he please let you know his initial thoughts on the days and times he would like to see DD for her to continue a relationship with her father. So that you can come to an amicable compromise.

I would then add to tell him not to lie to people as you will happily correct them on that he has ended your marriage (even if you are now the one doing the divorce) etc. You have done nothing to be ashamed of.

They are both messing with your head. He is telling you one thing and she is telling you another because he is trying not to look like the bad party to anyone. It is a case of the 'I want out so if I am a nasty twat she will kick me out and then she looks like the bad one and I am the poor pathetic victim'.

Please stop engaging with the pair of them for your own good.

/hugs

Xales has good advice.

Stop stop stop the texting!

My advice is to go ahead with the conversation if you want to, but warn him at the beginning that you are there to discuss you and him, NOT her. If he brings her into the conversation, say 'I think it's confusing if we discuss her, it seems to cloud the issue for both of us, I have stopped texting her now and please don't mention her name again'.

Ask him to talk to you about contact with DD - is he happy with the current arrangement? Don't say anything about organising / controlling etc, just say 'I'd like to talk about your contact with DD, please tell me what you think'.

Ditto the divorce. Ask him straight out 'are you happy living apart or would you like to move back in?'. If he says he is happy living apart then say 'in that case, I intend to continue with divorce proceedings, but please remember it was your decision to move out'. (If he says he would like to move back in then that's a whole new curve ball! I honestly don't think it's likely though.)

Try not to have a 'but you said this' 'I thought you wanted that' 'I was trying to do this' conversation. Ask him how he is feeling NOW.

Skye I can't stress enough that you NEED to remove this woman from your life and ASAP - even if she has done nothing wrong with your H she is revelling in the drama between you both. Anyway why is he telling HER this much info about being pushed into divorce, about how confused he is, about his what if's....he should be telling/discussing it with YOU. Someone else above already said it but he seems to care more about her feelings than yours Skye.
If you absolutely have to speak with him then mrspepper makes some good points to include as does xales Stay calm and cool and don't settle for any shite from him.
Good luck, hope it goes well xx

I couldn't agree less with the last poster. I think your daughter needs some sense of stability so she needs to know when she is seeing him and for how long. That seems to me to be the pressing concern. Also, has he "remembered" to pay in money.

I wouldn't give him the chance to think divorce may or may not be up to him. Do you want to divorce him? That is the question.

Sorry, by last poster, I meant Pepper. Xposting.

nkf, I can't see any fundamental differences of opinion in your post and mrspepper's?

Sorry, but she is full of crap and acting like he is the victim and that he's being pushed into things by you. That isn't what's happening here- what's happening is that he has completely failed to take responsibility for his actions (leaving, saying he wants to separate) and instead the blame has been shifted to you for pressing him into things. He is dithering and needs to speak up on what he wants rather than making out that you are the one who has made this happen. It's pretty conniving to pretend that if only you'd given him the space and hadn't been firm this wouldn't be heading in the direction it is. I know this sounds rather strong but it's almost blackmail in a way- "Don't act like this, or I might not come back because you pushed me into this and wouldn't let me speak...I might have come back if you hadn't done that".

Yes, I agree DD needs a sense of stability, the two of you need to work out a contact arrangement and stick to it.

you are getting confused, skye, because you are not taking the good advice on your thread

the people here have no emotional connection to you, no ulterior motive, no agenda, no side

this woman and your H, however, have all that in spades

start listening to us, and to yourself

you sound like a dinghy on rough seas....thrown every which way by forces outside of your control

except you could take control, but seem strangely reluctant to do so

get your hand on that tiller....and throw the confounders (her and him) overboard

FFS what the hell has it to do with that bloody woman?! She winds you up by interfering with your marriage, tells ex twunt you are upsetting her & then swans off on a cruise??!!!! Why will you not cut her out?! Has ex actually been honest at any point so far?! Why will he start now?

I think the time has come to tell that woman to piss off. Your "d"h has grown too close to her and TBH she sounds manipulative and actually unpleasant. Delete her number now.

skye ain't listening right now

for some reason she thinks this woman is a conduit to her husband

despite all evidence to the contrary

It's ok, I'm not going to contact her again. I wish I hadn't today but at least it showed up the misunderstanding once again by my husband and me thinking different things about our daughter , each waiting for the other to make contact.

But I seriously will not contact her again

You don't know for sure that he misunderstood you...you only have this woman's word.

She has her own agenda and that is why I am pleased you will cut contact with her.

She is shit stirring, planting ideas in your head, manipulating you in order to fulfil her own agenda.

The fact that your H cares more about her feelings and views speaks volumes

Good stuff. Can't believe she has run 'telling tales' to ur h. She has engineered all this and now playing martyr! She certainly wasn't complaining about being 'stuck in middle' when she was sauntering along the beach with YOUR husband and child whilst her poor hubby was at home with the bloody dog! Listen to the advice given; all very good. Do not be manipluated by these people who are kicking you when down. You turned yourself inside out to please him and try again. He wouldn't play ball and is just playing injured party now as he doesn't like to be (rightly so) cast as the villain.

Skye, whatever happens, your marriage woes will only be solved by you communicating with your husband. The fact that you are ending up with lots of different interpretations, from different people who should not even be in your marriage, is testament of things going wrong.

If you want to speak with him about your daughter, then do so.

He always has the choice to ring you and beg forgiveness for being do indecisive and make you an offer to return. He has not done this, but you are not stopping him.

Yes , it's very odd as he tells me it's over then tells them I won't give him the time he needs to sort himself out and he must realise that divorce us the only option if he doesn't want me?.!

I really don't get him any more. Still waiting for him to ring...

It's not actually odd that you're hearing conflicting things. your H is simply telling you one thing, and telling other people something else.

your H wants to look like the good guy to his friends. so he is blaming you to them, and trying to make himself look good so they'll remain/be more sympathetic to him.

this is really quite ordinary, you hear about men doing this sort of thing all the time. my father did something v similar when he and my DM split up.

Nobody asked her to be in the middle of your marriage.
She wedged her arse in there of her own accord.

She has been overly familiar not supportive. I think she has kept a very close eye on events to try and deflect attention away from the inappropriate 'text' relationship that developed between your husband and herself.

Every time you consult her on an aspect of your relationship you give over your power and are submissive to her. She is toying with you as a consequence.

Take back the power. Let her know she had no small part in your marital breakdown and it has not been support she has offered. Let her know she is not your friend.

Tell your husband if he has something to say about your relationship he should tell you and stop running off his mouth at all and sundry because it is disrespectful. Tell him he violates your privacy by doing this and if there is one more incident of this nature, all communications will cease unless through a solicitor.

You are not controlling at all. He is deeply manipulative. Analyse the behaviour. He sounds like an absolute shit.

As For you pushing him into divorce....how about what you want? The fact that you don't and won't tolerate his shitty behaviour and as a CONSEQUENCE OF HIS BEHAVIOUR have made your decision- doesn't even seem to enter into her head. She has no respect for you.

Well, we talked for around an hour. We cleared up the misunderstanding over daughter and access and then I moved on to us and was he sure its what he wants. He said yes, his feelings havent changed, so I said well your friends wife has said this, this and this and your brother said this, and he said no way had he said that his head was fucked and he was unsure. I said ok then, so everybody is lying to me.. I asked him repeatedly if he was sure, that he didnt love me any more, that it was over and he said yes. I said well after what they have been saying I want to be sure that you are 100% sure that its what you want as if you need time you can have it, I always said that. He said nothing will make a difference.

He has finally accepted that it was wrong and inappropriate to text her so much, I pointed out that it was an emotional affair and that I only have his word for it that nothing happened and that 99 times out of 100 it always leads to an affair, so maybe his is the 1 time it hasnt...... I said I wished I had let him go in February when he first walked out, but it was such a shock as I didnt even know there was a problem, that I couldnt just let him walk away. I said that he should have thought about his daughter in all this, that he has really let her down by walking out when I didnt know anything was wrong even and that I can hold my head high knowing that I did everything I could to try and fix the marriage, even though I was always onto a loser. He said that he did try when he came back in February, and I said, yes but you were texting her hundreds of times a day which meant you werent thinking about me and concentrating on our relationship. He said oh you're never going to get past that are you?!

He said he doesnt see the point in getting divorced, its not what he was thinking when he walked away. I said well, you have said that you dont love me any more, you dont really like me as a person going by what you said in the letter, and you dont want to be married to me any more, so what the hell do you think is going to happen? I pointed out that its mental torture for me, to have the divorce hanging over us, when will we do it, 6 months time, 12 months, wait the 2 years? He said he just doesnt see the need if neither of us have anybody else. I said well I feel the need as if you dont want me, then its what has to happen. He did agree in the end. I also asked him not to run round telling everybody that he doesnt want a divorce, when he is the one who has walked out of the marriage.

So he finally seemed to understand that this is the final conclusion of HIS decision, the only route that I can take. I stressed that he can still change his mind at any point up to signing the papers..... But I know that he wont. So I think I need to go and see the solicitor this week and set things in motion..

Im scared now about finances, losing the house and everything else, but I dont see any other option as I dont think I could bear waiting the 2 years and then having to go through it all over again....

Hope you are ok, skye.

<holds hand>

Oh honey I'm sorry but you must be relieved you now have it all clear. Will you now block all contact with OW?!! She is a big problem!

He is a disgrace. There is nothing he has done to save your marriage-just fed you a lot of lies. He has made no effort to reignite passion/love through hard work. He is a very shallow individual indeed.

I am still of the view there is probably a very good reason as to why he hasn't put any effort in and that it is OW shaped.

People can be very convincing when they are covering their tracks. It may well be he has been reflecting back the language he has been getting himself from this friend. He is possibly sitting tight and 'giving her space to work out what she wants'......

The divorce thing is weird and the only reason I can see that he wouldn't want to bother is to have a fallback option or to control you.

For someone who claims you are controlling he is incredibly so.

Divorce him and kick him into touch.

You will start to feel angry soon.

I think she has been lying to you to give you false hope so your focus is elsewhere and away from their relationship.

Spot on Queenie

Op you sound like an intelligent woman and I am sure that with time and space you will realise what Queenie has said is right. Its so easy to blind yourself when you are still emotionally attached.

I have sent her one last text today to say that he is certain it's over and that he denies saying any different to them or his brother. I told her that I hope he is honest with them now as he tells me that no amount if time will make any difference. I said I won't contact her about him again.

I just feel sick, tired, got a stinking cold now, can't see how my life will ever improve, I'm scared I will lose the house as don't earn enough to get a mortgage on my own.

I don't see how I will ever meet anyone else as live in a very small town barely larger than a village, I'm overweight, (although have list 2 stone through loss of appetite since all this began). I am
Reasonably attractive and all my friends tell me that I'm a lovely person despite what he says but I was 30 when I met him. I find it hard to see how I'm ever going to meet anyone ever again to share my life with.

These are normal feelings and fears and they pass. Once you have the practicalities sorted out you will work through these feelings.

It is still very early days.

I think your view of yourself is very negative and may go someday to explaining why you have tolerated so much from this man.

I think the key is to give yourself time to heal and start enjoying pleasing yourself. The realisation that you are free to take your life in whatever direction you choose can be enormously liberating. When you no longer care about having a man and are happy in your own skin, it is often the case that suddenly you have all these options!

It is better that way too because you can choose wisely and for the right reasons rather than being with just someone who fills a gap.

You are going through a lot of changes and may well end up living somewhere completely different. It won't be long before life gets exciting again.

You need to start focussing on you now. Is there anything in life you want to do that you haven't done yet?

He threw it at me last night that I would never leave here and i said he had never asked me to. Just one more thing I am being hung for that i didn't even know was an issue.

My daughter starts school here in September so I wouldn't want to move now but I would have considered it if he had asked me . But I don't seriiously think it occurred to him until he moved out. It's just one more example of how he has changed.

He has changed and I haven't and it's me that's suffering

"He said yes, his feelings havent changed ... I asked him repeatedly if he was sure, that he didnt love me any more, that it was over and he said yes. I said well after what they have been saying I want to be sure that you are 100% sure that its what you want as if you need time you can have it, I always said that. He said nothing will make a difference."

Yes, I got told that too.
Here is the translation: my head is up my arse and my dick is buried deep on OW, she has all my attention and feelgood emotions and you are as much importance to me as the dustball under my bed. I am not interested in how you feel, what you think, how you hurt.
Because I am a good guy, this ALL has to be YOUR FAULT. Here are the reasons [ as you point out, ? ? ?]. And the ones I never mentioned, well you should have known.

Now, go away and leave me alone. Vanish in a puff of dust. But don't stop: looking after my house, caring for my children, and generally functioning to keep my life going so I can be free to do what I want. Do not be difficult and do things like, want a divorce, ask for £££ because that is inconvenient.

Sorry, but that is the direct translation.

When the fervour of OW fades, and the fantasy doesn't work any more, then you will get 'I made a mistake, it meant nothing, I never loved her, I never stopped loving you, lets make this work (but don't ask me to explain anything, or open myself up to you).

And that bit, I cannot get my head round. I would be grateful for any MN translations of THAT.

What he says doesn't matter.

He is full of tripe.

Ignore his nonsense.

You know it is over. You are only hurting yourself more by raking over this and you will achieve nothing but misery.

Stop punishing yourself by endlessly picking the scab. Show yourself some kindness.

So as I said, what about your dreams and ambitions? What have you always wanted to learn/explore? Where would you like to live in the world if you had total freedom to decide?

Now you have lost weight I bet you need some new clothes.....

It's time to redefine yourself on your terms.

The next time he calls and turns the conversation around to your relationship tell him you know what you need to know and have no need to discuss it further. If he insists on giving you his views tell him you couldn't give a rat's arse what he thinks. That should stop the twonk in his tracks.

we wont be having contact other than by text to arrange daughter's visits. Sundays are agreed, but in the week will depend on his work. He did say that if he doesnt finish early enough to pick her up from school then it wont be worth it as not enough time to go anywhere (this is because I said he cant come in the house). But even if he only had an hour or so, he could take her to the park, or down to the pub for some tea.

I have just rung the solicitor, he is calling me back, but I am going to get the divorce started as I really dont see the point in hanging around and prolonging the agony for myself any more. I could leave it and stick my head in the sand and hope it will go away, but life isnt like that.

I just feel so destroyed, I never ever thought it would come to this, my H was always such a kind loving man. His letter to me was so horrible, it really makes me blame myself for everything, the way I treated him etc, but I have to tell myself that if I didnt know he was unhappy what could I do and I was never nasty to him, never ever. I threw a couple of points in his letter at him last night, like "I have never felt appreciated". I said, never? what in 10 years? He said Ok, maybe I should have said recently... So I said Yes you should, just one more lie then isnt it....

Abitwobbly, it means "I want normal service resumed as soon as possible". He never stopped loving himself, that's why he gave himself permission to have an affair. You're not supposed to ask questions or stop trusting him, any more than the sofa is supposed to object to being sat on.

And Skye... very well done. I do agree that proceeding with the divorce is pretty much your only option, and what you said to his (not your!) friend is quite right. She kept texting you about he feels this, he wants/doesn't want that, when you never asked her to, and then complains she's piggy in the middle? Well then piggy, trot off back to your stye.

Posters have told you several times already that reinventing your relationship to make himself unhappy in retrospect and to portray you as indifferent/controlling/whatever is a standard technique of straying partners looking for an excuse. Any or all of it may be nonsense. Most of it probably does have a grain of truth (hence why you are agonising over it) but so distorted and exaggerated that it might as well be a complete lie. He just doesn't want to feel in his heart that he's the bad guy, but if he allows himself to remember you were a good wife he would know he was a very bad guy and that hurts.

Well done ref the divorce.

With respect to childcare prepare for disappointment and further hurt. He has his own life (which will take priority) and will use many excuses as to why he can't see her. Best to formalise it rather than have an open arrangement.

That will also help your child have a sense of routine and give him some firm boundaries.

The reason I asked about your individual dreams is your focus is still on what he is thinking and doing.

How is this helping you?

Huge apologies if this is unhelpful...but ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH that you apologised to the other woman for texting/involving her!!

At the very, very best she is someone that has become far too involved in your marriage because she loves being at the centre of a 'drama'.

At worst - she is having an affair with your husband.

You apologise to her her?

Where is her apology, her shame, her accountability when it came to all those texts to your husband?

Even if there is no EA or sexual affair () - this was wrong. She must have known your husband was too invested in her unless she is labotomised.

I'm just so very angry at how you are being treated by these selfish bastards.

Agree with everyone above who says he is rewriting history, blaming you and trying to come out as the good guy - he wants out of the marriage 100%. But because you are instigating divorce after being pushed into a corner (despite the pain this is causing you) he is going round teling everyone it's you pushing that and is not what he wants!

I say this with love: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF SWEET BABY JESUS DO NOT CONTACT THIS WOMAN AGAIN.

x

His letter to me was so horrible, it really makes me blame myself for everything, the way I treated him etc,

As others have already said, this is a common strategy in people looking for a way out of a relationship. Blame the other person and they can feel less guilty about it. It's characteristic of both men AND women in this situation, it's not just a man thing.

You don't need to fret yourself, there was nothing you could have done.

I forgot to mention....when he had contact time and she and her friend came along and you were told the husband was dog sitting- who told you that?

Could the friend have been a cover and the husband was unaware of them meeting up?

It just seems really strange that on a contact day she and a friend attended. If it was all out in the open why did this friend come along? This doesn't make sense.

Why did he feel the need to invite them?

my daughter told me that the husband was looking after the dog. She is only 4. The wife and her friend had netball that morning, so thats why they were together. I presume it was prearranged as my husbands mother lives at the top of the hill, not in the town where the beach is, and usually he would go straight to her house. (never had time to walk on the beach or go to lunch when I was around..........).

I think the wife and her husband are away this weekend, going by what my H said a couple of weeks ago, obviously I dont know for sure as its none of my business now...

I rang the solicitor this morning and he hasnt rung me back :-(

I presume he doesnt like being on his own, that he prefers company even though its supposed to be his time with daughter. Of course if there is an EA there then he would want to see her all the time wouldnt he. He is certainly more concerned with her feelings than mine, although of course if he doesnt love me then I suppose hes not going to give a damn about my feelings is he...

I said to him last night you dont even like me and he said of course I like you and I said, not according to that letter you dont. According to that letter Im the most horrible person who walked the earth and then he said Now you're just being silly..... well he wrote it........

I bet the husband had no idea they were all meeting up without him. As far as he was aware his wife was meeting a friend for netball and going off for lunch together afterwards.

This may have been her introduction to your child.

You may need to consider there may be a bigger plan.

Also it is interesting that she had an introduction to your MIL.........

Might it be worthwhile to chat to MIL ? I'm thinking..... an acceptance speech to her over his new woman and conformation there is no bitterness and that she doesn't need to feel torn. Then onto valuing your relationship as women and looking forward to seeing her soon.

Mention your daughter has met her and seems fine about it.

She may let the cat out of the bag if she is in the loop.

Just an idea to help you achieve closure.

no he didnt take the wife and her friend to meet his mum, only my daughter.

my daughter has met them several times as he always takes her back to the house for a while, then they have been to the park together with the wife, husband, dog and friend sometimes. the wife has cooked tea for my daughter and also made cakes with her. Im not happy about it but cant stop it...

when I pointed out all the things that they took my husband on, shopping, meals out, breakfast in pubs after a hangover etc, the wife said to me that they lead a childless life, ie can do what they want when they want but she is sad because of their loss and would rather have a child to do things with. sometimes I wonder........

Oh I must have misread that.

The comments from her are quite concerning given the behaviour. Have you ever asked to see her phone for messages from your husband, or could you push her DH to have a look on the quiet by letting him know just how many messages were exchanged whilst your marriage disintegrated without your knowledge?

I did think about getting the husband to check her phone. she has iphone like us, so I know it would all be recorded as an ongoing conversation on there. When I managed to check my husbands there was only ever the last text on there.... so he was deleting them as he went which is again suspicious.

I think now I need to wait until divorce final, so it doesnt affect my settlement, dont want him turning nasty on me, then maybe give her husband a nudge.

I sold my old house and made 90K profit and then we bought current house together. Because I thought we would be together for ever (hollow laugh) we put the house in 50/50 as the solicitor said it was easier.... we had a mortgage of £120K on £185K purchase price, so I always said I paid for a third of the house, the difference of about £25K went on the stamp duty, solicitor fees etc, buying some furniture, carpetting and painting throughout before we moved in, paying off his loan of £8K and a couple of small overdrafts that we had. I managed to save £1K out of it for myself.

In the time we were together we converted the garage by taking a maternity break on our mortgage, then my parents had a policy come out which was money for me and that repaid the mortgage maternity break and fenced the garden and did the driveway. My gran gave us around £3K as well which we used to do the kitchen and put towards the car etc.

I know he paid the mortgage for 4 years after daughter was born, but I dont believe he deserves much out of the house. The solicitor says 20% max, maybe less if we can get away with it, he cant force the sale of the house so wont get it for 14 years anyway.

Oh God she wants your life. Anyway, disengage, ignore and disengage some more. Hope you are ok-ish x

X posted.

Ok great you are on top of finances and thinking straight - you are doing so well.

You just cannot trust this woman, not one iota, not now, not ever. I feel it in my very bones!

I want him to walk away with as little as possible, he never managed to save any money over the years, everything done to the house came from money that my family gave me. He could have painted the outside of the house himself, but we paid somebody to do it. we paid somebody to mow the lawn and clean the windows because he wouldnt do it.

people keep saying to me not to rush into divorce, that he may change his mind, but sad as I am , I know in my heart that it would never work without major changes and he is not prepared to make them, whilst I am. so it would never ever work and I told him that last night.

You sound a completely different person - you hit the "no more shit" wall at last - well done & don't take any prisoners!

thanks, I am still very low, have cried several times again today. Its always difficult if I meet somebody who doesnt really know whats happened and when i tell them the first thing they say is "But you always seemed so happy, he's the last person in the world I would have said would do this, but you were the perfect couple" blah blah blah.

I am feeling like I am starting to get some control back into my life now (controlling bitch that I am, obviously!). I have got 3 nights out with friends coming up, cinema, drinks, meal. and some things planned to do with my daughter too, she has a friends birthday party tomorrow followed by a local garden fete, which we are going to with friends, so trying to keep busy and keep her happy. Took her to the local park today so she has had fun. On Sunday I will try and do some accounts work that I need to do, and then maybe try and relax and watch an hour of tv, something I havent really been able to do for weeks now. Its so ironic he said I watched too much tv, since he left its only been on for daughters programmes! My sky+ is full with unwatched stuff and Ive given up on the soaps.

Its like he took everything away from my, my appetite went and I've lost 2 stone, my enjoyment in reading books and watching tv has gone, he took all the enjoyment out of my life. So Im taking it back, going to see American Reunion with a good friend on Monday evening. Its supposed to be funny, so will hopefully make me feel much better.

Its his birthday next Sunday. Im not going to give him a card myself, but obviously daughter will have to. He gave me a box of Thorntons chocolates for my 40th birthday in March that I never got around to eating because of being ill and going on holiday, plus I was given around 4 large boxes of chocs and never had time to eat them all, still got 1 on the go now.... anyway, I'm going to give him the same box back, from daughter. So he gets a present from her and I dont have to spend any money! I have no idea what the ettiquette is over getting presents for your ex from your child?! do you or dont you?!

A card from her will be fine. But recycled choc quite inspired!

I know what to give him for his birthday pressie < DIVORCE PAPERS >.Sorry for shouting but he is a very bad person, so please take notice of all of us M'snetters and get rid of this creep.You and your DD deserve much better. Mx.

Please plesae never ask him what he is feeling and thinking again. Please concentrate only on what you think and feel.

Sit on chocs first!

My DH left me at Easter I got the old "I love you but I'm not in love with you" I was still am devastated we have two children our youngest being 16 months, I begged him to give things ago suggested how we could improve what I through was a good marriage, but in the end when I asked "is there any hope" he answerd no.

Looking back I'm starting to think that he may of done me a favour as he is going out acting like a child and not taking any responabletly for the kids.

And we all know what happens in the end to these kind of men.

Move on and be strong, you'll find happiness one day and be with someone that loves you 100 times more.

Butterflygp I am sorry that you are going through this too. My H is acting so out of character its unbelievable. I accept responsibility for some of the problems, a lot of which was down to stress, but he just wont and he says thats it and wont consider sorting it out.

I am very up and down, but need to consider that what I am doing now is for the best

Love love love the recycled chocs idea and how assertive you are being. Well done skye

I am trying to regain some control and not sit around crying all the time for what has gone. Its never coming back and I need to accept that. I need to accept that its for the best too.

Yes, I would focus on rebuilding my life - friends, hobbies, work/training and treat myself to lots of nice things such as bubble baths, haircuts, new clothes etc. It will do so much for your self esteem.

I am digging out old clothes that stopped fitting, found some jeans and quite a few tops, feel better when Im wearing them. Saw somebody today I hadnt seen for ages and she commentated on the weight loss, so people can really see it. Its not a good way to lose it, but it is still good that I have.

Trying to stay so positive, but do struggle at times. Think Im still in shock really as still struggling to work out why this happened, cant stop thinking what if etc. But have to accept there was nothing I could have done if he didnt talk to me, and I have tried everything I could to fix it. The lady from the Childrens Centre said that I behaved perfectly through all this, that I am very strong, that I couldnt have handled it better, and she reminded me that I told her at least I can tell my daughter one day that I can hold my head up high knowing that I did everything I could to save my marriage and he wont be able to look her in the eye..

You are doing so well. Honestly. Hard to recognise you as the same woman from your previous thread. You are behaving with complete dignity, you have done your absolute utmost to save your marriage, you have given him all the reassurances you can do. There is nothing, nothing more that you can do. And now you are approaching acceptance, making level headed financial decisions; whilst ensuring your dd maintains a relationship with her father. Well done. You have come a long long way in such a short time.

So he originally left you just weeks before your 40th birthday!? Not great timing!

Ignore his birthday. DD can make a card at nursery. He deserves nothing more.

His timing was fantastic, I was late sending out party invites so had just sent them out that week then he walked out. I remember crying at him how fucking fantastic his timing was, that I'd have to cancel my party. He said you can still have it, I said yeah sure celebrate the fact I'm 40 and my husband just left me?!! Twat! plus we had a holiday booked for the end if march for our daughters birthday and a trip to Peppa pig world followed by her party. We booked the holiday through The Sun and upgraded to a lodge from a caravan as a surprise for him , the same lodge we had stayed in previously, which of course I told him about when he said he was leaving .

I suppose I should be grateful that he came back and didn't ruin mine or daughters birthdays ........ He also took the day off on my birthday and took me out to lunch and we had a walk along a seafront. I was so grateful to him for doing that.... I thought he really cared...

I'm getting all sad again now as I really thought he was trying then and that it was going to work out:-( he admitted he was uncomfortable about going on holiday but that we had a good time " but then that's what you do on holiday, it doesn't mean anything" to quote him.

I feel like such a mug thinking we were so happy. We never had s problem in our sex life before he left the first time. When he first came back we made love every day for about 10 days in a row.... We made love literally right up to the evening he left. He couldn't get it up, I cried as I thought it meant he really didn't love me, he said he was confused , then that his feelings were gone, then he walked out for good.

Why am I reliving all this!!!

Oh sweetheart. It really isn't your fault. His head is all over the place. You have done nothing wrong. He made a half hearted attempt to work things out - probably because of the timing. I can't say anything to make you feel better - only time will do that. But please, please stop torturing yourself. You did everything you could. You now need to continue to be resiliant and smart.

So yet another sleepless night with my daughter. She wakes up distressed every few hours wanting a cuddle or or blanket back on, asking when she will see Daddy. It breaks my heart. I've got a heavy cold and feel rough and so low.

I wake up every morning feeling ok until it all comes rushing back to me. Then I just feel sick and scared all over again and wonder how the hell my life came to this. Bastard I hate the bastard for doing this to us. I told him the other night that if he really cared about his daughter he would have told me when things started to go wrong.

I had bought him (before he left), a lovely birthday card saying happy birthday daddy, you are the best daddy in the world and so special etc. I have now bought another one that just says Happy birthday Dad and that's it. He doesn't deserve anything else. and it's bloody fathers day next month too. Bastard.

Have to go and shower her now and wash her hair. She hates me doing if as he always used to do it . (We don't have a bath).

Oh skye it's so unfair for you and DD to have to go through this. Have you got anything nice planned for today?

Feel for you so much, you are doing so well but your pain and sadness emanates from your posts. Hope you have a good weekend

I am so sad, grieving for the man I thought I knew who is gone forever, grieving for my daughter who will grow up not knowing what family time is like, grieving for life as I knew it. I feel like I was living a lie as I had no idea that anything was wrong. I sit here crying because my life will never be the same again nor will hers

What a way to remember your 40th!

Perhaps on your birthday next year when you are feeling better you could have the big celebration?

Really hope you feel better later. Going out today?

I know this seems impossible now but your life will be BETTER than it was before one day. You will look back & realise there was something missing even before ex kept leaving. You will meet a wonderful man who will make you realise how lacking ex was although you didn't know it at the time. DD will adjust & get fun dad not grumpy dad when she sees him & you will get some time to yourself. Meanwhile be kind to yourself & try not to torture yourself with analysing your marriage too much.

Well I have had a busy day with daughter, she had a birthday party this morning then we went to a local fete with my friend and her two daughters so my daughter has had a lovely day. Her behaviour was quite bad at one point and I ended up in tears. It didn't help that I kept remembering the last time I went was with husband.

Have since come home and been in tears again. Even though I know it's over I can't stop going over everything. It's doing my head in. I just can't cope a lot of the time, then at other times I am very strong.

I'm sure he will be telling everybody that he doesn't want a divorce which is ridiculous when he doesnt love me any more. It just makes me sound bad and divorce is the last thing I ever wanted!

I had the letter from the solicitors today which recaps our meeting, he has got it a bit wrong so I need to correct that but he urges me not to hang around as legal aid ends next April. Nit sure that I qualify though. It estimates 9 months for divorce... So that will be before my next birthday then....

Solicitor wants Facebook, email and mobile records along with marriage certificate and £340 for court fee. It also says he could get between 20 and 40% of the capital which could be as much as £38k. I don't see he should get that much no way, so need to suggest as little as possible.

couple of things
you say your daughter won't know what family time is - of course she will, she still has a family. My dc and I are a family, no less than anyone else I know
two - stop crying in front of dd

It's shit at the moment but it will get better.

If he's going around saying things that make you look bad then that's yet one more reason to be glad you are shot of the shithead him.

Be kind to yourself, cut your daughter some slack and, I agree with Ninah, save your crying till she's gone to bed.

grieving for my daughter who will grow up not knowing what family time is like

I'm so sorry you have been through this. You have been very strong and very brave.

I thought I would share something with you. My ExH was a drug addict and alcoholic. I stuck in our marriage for far too long, partly because I was afraid that our 3 ds would not have a father figure/know family life. But since I have left I realised that a) that was NOT a family life I wanted them to grow up in and b) they were happier without him at home.

I now have a wonderful, loving DP; who treats my ds' like his own, and they DO have a family life - one I am confident will/is benefiting them because there is a wonderful man as a 'father' and a happy relationship in the home....

I met DP when I was 45....

Thanks for the support, just having a low day again even though I try my hardest to stay positive. As soon as somebody new asks about it I have to go through it all again and get upset all over again. I know it will get better one day and I know it's early days . Councelling will hopefully help me to see that it's not my fault and there was nothing I could do if I didn't know the problem

Hi Skyblue,

Firstly I am sorry you are having such an unhappy time but it will get slightly easier each day from now on until eventually the pain will no longer be acute and will ultimately disappear altogether.

I can relate to what you are saying about how upsetting it is to tell people anew. In a similar situation I have enlisted a close friend to "spread the word"and make it clear that I wanted people to know but I didn't feel up to talking about it.

This works for friends and aquaintances.With completely new people you can say as much or as little as you choose and you don't have to answer any questions if you don't want to.

Good luck with everything.

ok, so I cant stalk his facebook any more, lol. he finally changed his password yesterday as i couldnt get into it today and it said it had been changed. Good job I printed out the one chat on there between him and friends wife. My solicitor wants to see it....

If you are seeing the knob at any time today, do not be drawn on the question of divorce - be non-committal and let it come as a surprise to him.

The same goes for the ow, the ow's dh, the bil, and Uncle Tom Cobley & all. At this stage of the game, no-one should know that you are either discussing divorce with a solicitor or intending to proceed with a petition.

Hope you are feeling better this am.

What did the FB chat say? Anything incriminating?

The Facebook chat said

H oh I can't keep up with this tonight

W oh I can type so much quicker now

H yes it's easier isn't it, you can't get rid of me

W I don't want to get rid of you. I can see your happy smiling face now

H and I can see yours too

W you need to change your profile pic for a more recent one

H I always look awful in photos

W no you don't

H ok I'll try and find one

W quick go back to text , husband is coming

So this was 2 days before he moved out in feb, it indicates that her H didn't know they were texting which she told me he did.

There is also an email in which he calls her a very clever girl and another one in which she refers to him sending her motivational emails. In this email he tells her that everything will work out ok in the end. There is never anything lovey or sexy in it but it's all a bit flirty.

I'm so sorry skye - that would tell me all I needed to know. STOP torturing yourself over your marriage ending and what you could have done or not done differently. SHE is the reason it has ended.

oh god...that is incriminating.

Can you now please believe that none of this is your fault and that your marriage ended because of the relationship your H has with this woman.

quick go back to text , husband is coming

Not an instant message that anyone who is married and respects their partner should be sending in my view. I have a lot of close guy friends, I chat with them quite a lot (not to the tune of 1200 texts a month mind you! That is not normal) and I would never ever say something like that.

Skye - you seem to think the problem was, he didn't tell you he was unhappy so you could fix it. You're not the project manager of your marriage with him as the customer. He chose to walk away, you didn't push him. Whatever he would like you to believe.

I find the 'divorce: it's just a piece of paper' thing completely cowardly and disrespectful as well. Why shouldn't you want to move on with your life? Be free to meet someone else when the time is right? (Which I fully appreciate is not now!) And with the door shutting on Legal Aid it makes no sense not to get proceedings under way now. He wants to walk away with no consequences, as he's done when he's walked out on jobs in the past.

What a pair of two-faced, deceitful lowlifes.

Hold your head up high and stay strong. You are doing bloody brilliantly.

Get that divorce petition sorted.

hugs and to you.

he knows that Im going to start divorce as after I had text from her saying that I was pushing him into a divorce he doesnt want...... bit rich seeing as he walked out on us....... we discussed it and I told him that I have to do it, if he doesnt love me any more, then its the only logical conclusion. obviously he doesnt know exactly when Im going to do it or on what grounds. solicitor said that inappropriate contact with another woman will definitely be part of unreasonable behaviour.

he just picked daughter up and I had all her stuff outside the door ready again and didnt speak to him or even look at him. he looks like he is trying to be friendly, but no chance. How can you be friendly with somebody who has ripped out your heart, stamped all over it, then torn it into little pieces and danced all over it.........

Exactly skye. He has a bloody cheek!

skye things have moved on a bit since I last read your thread properly. I know what you mean about having to keep explaining the situation when you see people - except in my case this took the form of a loud rant . Luckily this sorted out who were the closest friends, it also led to me becoming a bit of a recluse to avoid starting to explain and turning into a rant.

Re divorce and finances, keep in mind that the main purpose of a settlement is to support DC, and enable both exes to move on with their lives.

Keep strong, and remember, it's OK to cry. Crying is healing.

He's trying to be friendly for his own benefit - to help maintain his delusion that he isn't a dishonest shit.

I am not advising you here - but I know that i would be going to visit her and her husband with a copy of the FB conversation. I would be making sure, in an icy fury, that they knew this seedy relationship was out in the cold light of day.

I thought about putting snippets on my facebook status lol, tagging them and her husband in it. But my H doesnt know that I have this, I hadnt mentioned it as didnt want him changing his facebook password, but now he has done that anyway I have nothing to lose. BUT I also dont want it to affect the divorce, I dont want him going arsy on me. Really cant decide what to do for the best. My solicitor wants a copy of it.

Give your solicitor a copy. It's up to you whether you actually use it.

FGS don't put snippets on fb.

Hugs and

I guess I take the view that I wouldn't want to be part of keeping their little 'secret' and helping protect her as a result.

They both obviously have massive issues about responsibility - maybe its time for them to learn that actions have consequences. I would feel a moral obligation to inform her DH tbh, in a calm, dignified way.

Agreed. Informing the husband of the detail of these conversations is one thing but putting bits up on Facebook - whilst extremely tempting (not to mention amusing) will backfire.

My instinct is that you shouldn't do the classic "wronged wife" routine. Don't go to the OW and her H with the FB chat. Keep it as evidence for the divorce.

I wonder if OW is now panicked, as her behaviour will now be made known to her H, which is why she is so anti your divorce.

Well, good, then!

Unfriend both on FB, do not put snippets on & keep it for the legal process

Ever since he left you've run around like a headless chicken trying to find out what's going on in his head, pumping the ow for info, endeavouring to win him back, spending hours analysing his various conversations with, and missives to, you.

Phoning your bil to say goodbye? What was that about? You aren't going anywhere and neither is he.

And even though you've been told repeatedly to cease all contact with ow 'cos she ain't no friend of yours, up until a day or so ago you were still communicating with her.

All of those futile activites stop IMMEDIATELY. Henceforth any enquiry from ANYONE as to whether you intend to divorce the cowardly twat will be met with the official line 'I'm considering my options' - and no more than that.

You've mentioned that "I have always been a great believer in destiny and what is meant to be will be". Now it's time to prove it - and to give destiny a shove in the right direction by exercising a bit of subtle and well-considered control freakery.

Make no mistake; after your frenzy of continual communicataion, blanking him and her at this point will freak them out and it's in your best interests for them not to know what you're up to because if you start broadcasting the fact that you have instructed a solicitor, she may urge him to seek legal advice and get in first in the divorce stakes.

Play it cool. Make like you haven't sought legal counsel. And start getting your ducks in a row. Give your solicitor everything that's required and get them started on your draft petition which will make mention of his unreasonable 2000+ texts per month to an ow.

She won't be named as the ow but that's neither here nor there because, once you know that your petition is in the post to him, you will have opportunity to write to the ow and separately to her h giving your apologies if either of them is upset by mention of her activities with your h but that obviously you can only act on your solicitor's advice as to your grounds for divorce.

I see no reason why a transcript of the 'conversation' you've mentioned earlier between your h & the ow shouldn't accidentally be attached to any letter of apology you may decide to write to the h. In fact, it may be necessary for you to phone him shortly after receipt to apologise verbally for your oversight which will give you opportunity to twist the knife express your own surprise at the number of texts they exchanged.

As for the forthcoming gig; I'd have no compunction about going - preferably with a stunning male by my side - with my head held high to see if they turn up together and to drop her in it some more but I'm an avid fan of Machiavelli and my weapon of choice in these situations is poison administered slowly under cover of a charming and lighthearted demeanour.

The effect to aim for is that, as far as anyone can tell, you've 'risen above it' admirably while making sure that your opponents' noses are well and truly rubbed in it.

just boxed up some more of his stuff that I found, his shower gel was still in the shower! and a few more books, cd's etc. his old family photos. havent put in any of ours, dont see why he would want any pics of us as a happy loving laughing family. He can ask if he wants any of her baby pics etc, I can let him have a cd. I did put in a professional picture of us that was taken in October and we are both happy and smiling and it looks real too, not forced smiles, although I do look very tired in it, looking at it now. I put in the picture of him holding her the day that she was born. It breaks my heart to look at it. I did put it in her bedroom, but she took it back into the lounge again, so he can have it.

I dont suppose he will want our wedding video or any wedding photos.......

I put in all of his accounts folders for last year too, he can pay an accountant hundreds of pounds to sort it all out now, there is no way Im going to do it and it simply wouldnt be appropriate anyway for me to be dealing with his accounts!

You are doing so well.
During "the talk" this evening PLEASE do not give out ANY information regarding solicitor and divorce.

It is very important that you keep this information very close.

And kudos for putting in the account folders!

Do you have details of the figures in the account though?

So sorry skye blue....cross posting ref "the talk" !!
Am so worried though that you will give him power through too much information...
I know it sounds paranoid but I really do get concerned that you may, through trying to be reasonable, end up getting even more used than already looks likely.
As Izzy said so well...retain the power...you get to choose now.
Some motivational music to dance around the kitchen accidentally tread on some stuff may lift the mood.

Do you have to talk to him? Apart from arrangements regarding your daughter?

yeah his accounts are still in my computer, so I can see what they were. It really pisses me off, because I put wages through for myself as I wouldnt use up my personal allowance, to save him 9% tax on that amount, so I now have to pay tax on all my self employed earnings, probably around £1200! At the moment while he is paying into the joint account I am syphoning some off to pay towards it, but will also want it written into any divorce settlement that he should pay that tax for me! Also, I shoot myself in the foot over financial settlement as his profit will be around £7500 less ! so I could get less maintenance if we had to go official over it. It was all done as a joint thing, to save money overall, you know, like you do when you are a happily married couple!!!

I dont know how much to ask him for. At the moment he is still paying in the £250 a week that he has always paid in. That wont go on forever, indeed my solicitor has said that his solicitor will advise him to stop paying that immediately. My friend gets £60 per week for 2 kids. My neighbour gets £125 per week for 3 kids.

I was going to ask him for £100 per week, but think this is probably too high.... Then I thought maybe £60 a week? She eats a lot, lol. and come September starts school full time, so I will have all the uniform to buy and you know how kids get through shoes and Clarks are £30 a time! then there will be after school activities, Im not one for running around and we couldnt afford much anyway so she wasnt going to do much anyway, but I did at least want her to have swimming lessons at some point soon.

Any thoughts on maintenance anyone??

No, Im not talking to him at all after the other night, there is no point. i dont even speak to him when he picks up/drops off. I want his key back, so will have to text him about that too (have just done that , saying can he put it in daughters bag for me please).

I think my words the other night were - I will start the ball rolling on the divorce then.....

I have emailed my solicitor today to amend some points that he had wrong in our meeting notes and said that I need to meet with him to start divorce proceedings asap.

Child maintenance is usually 15% of income for 1 child so will that help you to work it out?

Skye,
just caught up on your thread and so sorry for what you are going through but have to say I think it is starting to come clear for you. Keep strong.
I second everything Izzy said. Focus on you & DD only, don' waste any more emotions on wandering what they are up to etc.

I too had a copy of an e-mail sent by OW to a friend (i remain friends with OW's husband), the e-mail laughed at her breaking up my 25 year marriage & stated that they were working out how to 'stitch me up' financially. I gave this to my solicitor but have never mentioned it to XH ..or spoken to him in 11 months & I do feel that this has a) kept him guessing as to whats going on as I'm sure he would have expected me to have played dirty by now & b) made me stronger and more able to 'cut loose'.

My financials are due shortly, & please note IME its not about how long you've been married, what you contributed, its just about do you & XH have enough money to be able to provide reasonable homes (lol my xh is already living in a house provided for by her XH) for DC (my XH divorced me for 'unreasonable behaviour BTW...before I got to do him first for adultery. same difference, divorce is divorce).

Revenge is a dish best served cold and one day, just one day I will make a better life for myself & DS while those 2 will live to regret it, of that I'm sure.

Skye you have been strong, there are certainly lots of ups & downs to come believe me. You will have setbacks,duvet days but you can & you will come through it for yourself & your DD, I promise you. Be strong.

oh, maintenance btw 15% of net income for 1 child is what I have been quoted. more if more dcs.

sorry, x post with midwife

CSA rough guide 15% 1 child, 20% 2 children, 25% 3 or more. can deduct for time spent with other parent e.g weekend per fortnight = 1/7th off.
Though is much much easier if PAYE as can attach an order to earnings if necessary.
Percentage is on net income. Which is where non PAYE can be extremely creative.
And court orders are fab if adhered to and a complete pain in ass and wallet if not. My county council estimated maintenance outstanding in area as £32 million ...and they cough us the taxpayer are picking up the pieces.
As much up front as poss and if at all poss beg and borrow to make house your own otherwise he will get percentage of all uplift if/when economy alters.

Non resident parent can only claim money off if child stays overnight more than 1 night a week so one weekend a fortnight would NOT entitle him to 1/7th off.

mine argued that he had them for an extra 5 days when I was in hospital and had them for some bank holidays...so yes you are correct but I still lose 1/7th ...very easy to go over if you ever let them actually holiday with their dad or are ever ill.

That conversation between them is shocking in its flirtation! The quick back to texting comment is blatantly showing they are or were up to something. Even if it hadn't reached the sexual stage.

Keep an extra copy of that. Once the divorce is sorted out a bit more i would show it to her husband along with the phone records.

The above fb convo was just 2 days before he walked out the first time. It shows that his thoughts lay elsewhere at that point and that she was making him feel good.

I have struggled today with wanting to text her and his brother to see how he is and what he is saying, but I didn't give in, I didn't text either of them.

I went to the cinema tonight, with my friend, to see American Reunion. It was really funny but I ended up in tears afterwards which was really silly , then we went to McDonald's and I cried because I last went there with him! How pathetic am I?

I know it's over and I know it would never work but still can't help but hold a thought that he is having s breakdown or something! Stupid I know. Have to accept that he is never coming back. I need to get a grip!!!

Of course he's not having a breakdown. He's merely running true to form in that this is what he's like, this is what he does.

If you'd posted here when he first ran away to be with the ow left the marital home and had acted on the advice you'd have received - which would not have varied from that given on your earlier thread - he'd have been back with his tail between his legs by now.

Repeat the mantra: DON'T text her, don't text him, don't text the bil - and repeat ad infinitum until not texting them becomes second nature.

You must not text her. His brother i see no problem about staying in touch with.

But having seen that conversation between them i am shocked that you have been discussing your marriage with her. She has hugely betrayed you! The sneaky little Bitch! She's trying to cover her own arse by being friendly to you these last weeks but what they did hugely points to an affair, even if it never reached the sexual stage. It was totally inappropriate and i am sure she would do anything to stop her husband seeing it. And there is a reason for that, because it is blatantly obvious from what is written that they were at least having an emotional affair.

Her husband will see it one day definitely. I would like to show him now but don't wont to rock the boat until the house and mortgage are settled.

It proves that he didn't know at that time.

I'm just so mixed up as to whether they actually had an affair or not

Having read that exchange between them, only the extremely guillible would believe that they've been under the same roof since February? or thereabouts, and haven't engaged in a shagfest when the dh's back has been turned.

Yeah sorry I agree - that text exchange is damning evidence of something to hide. Whatever that was - it was still a secret which means it was wrong.

I think you are extremely tolerant op. A lot of people would have gone ballistic at first site of that conversation, yet this whole time you have given them the benefit of the doubt, have been happily prepared to take him back and have been conversing with her.

What did your solicitor say about it?

Im glad to hear that the husband will be seeing the conversation one day. Poor bloke.

I don't see why confronting her husband with the evidence will have any bearing on your financial settlement. Your DH shows no signs of any care and consideration towards you. His actions have been totally self-serving. So will be his mindset when it comes to the financial settlement.

He has been telling himself for weeks and attempting to con you, that the marriage broke down because of your 'failings'. He will show no mercy when it comes to the settlement because he isn't feeling guilty.

I think the two of them are having a full blown affair and once the settlement is done, she will move out with him. Then it will be lots of excuses such as 'we only got together after you split' and 'neither of us meant for this to happen' etc. It will all be bollocks of course.

I think she is being nice and supportive so you are kept in place and don't upset things their end.

Tell the other husband and let them ( ow and DH)deal with the fallout inconveniently-just as you have had to.
You will be showing a kindness to the other chap too because at the moment he is not in a position to make an informed choice about his relationship.

Imagine the situation reversed and that she was under your roof and the husband she had left had information suggesting they were having an affair. How horrible would it be if you didn't find out for some time and you were allowing it to go on under your nose?

You need to do the right thing here.

I think you have to do the right thing by the OW husband-he does have the right to know and make an informed choice, what he does with this informatioon is his choice. Don't let him be blindsided as you were.

Perhaps you can contact the OW husband and let him know that you have proof of an inappropriate relationship between the OW and your H. Tell him he can have access to the information if he wants but also say that they will deny it if confronted.
You could also add that the information is already in the hands of your solicitor (if even just to prove that it exists).

As previously said what happens therafter is out of your hands.
At least your conscience will be clear about keeping quiet.

I have laid out a scenario whereby the ow's dh can be appraised of his dw's clandestine 'conversations' with your h without it appearing that you are motivated by vindictiveness, and the time for enlightening the ow's dh is very definitely not now.

Let the dust settle from your recent frenzied communications with your h and the ow and wait until your divorce petition has been drafted and is in the post before you break the news to the cuckold in a manner that will leave you basking in the rosy glow of altruism.

If he doesn't know what's been going on behind his back it won't hurt him to wait a bit longer - and there's always the possibility that he may come home unexpectedly make his own discovery in the interim.

Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey, honey. If you proceed with caution I have no doubt that the ow's dh will blow a gasket when he discovers the extent of his dw's and his dear friend's duplicity.

the facebook exchange was 2 days before he moved out first at the end of February, a week prior to that there is a mobile phone conversation of over an hour. But he first gave her a lift to Uni at around the end of January, and it was during February that he gave her a couple more lifts to Uni. This was all prior to him moving out the first time.

He has now been staying with them since 8 April.

I have tried to be tolerant and give them the benefit of the doubt for several reasons:

1. Because of the fact that H and her H have been friends for well over 30 years.

2. Because he was living in their house.

3. Because I knew my husband and it wasnt something he would do.

4. Because of the history of the stillborn baby I knew she was messed up.

5. She was very helpful and supportive to me, told me things that my husband was saying that helped me talk to him.

6. She was very critical of him for leaving me and daughter especially.

7. She seemed to think he was going through a MLC and would come out of it.

Reasons why I doubted them:

1. The first time I was suspicious was when he had an email from her, in which he says to her - You are a very clever girl to know so much - It just set alarm bells ringing in my head that the tone was flirty.

2. When I read the facebook chat I was horrified, at "I can see your cheeky little face" and I can see yours - comments

3. The facebook chat says - go back to text H coming, which indicates he didnt know they were texting

4. Finding the facebook chat led me to look at the mobile phone records and I now have printouts of a ream of paper nearly, showing all the texts to her.

5. I then discovered another email , in which she refers to him sending her motivational emails, and he tells her that everything will work out ok in the end.

6. Every single person that I told about the texts thought that there must be an affair going on.....

I am so bloody confused..............

It doesn't really matter now though. Your marriage is over. He's being a complete jerk anyway! It's just more reason to break off contact with all 3 of them. Her husband will find out if they're having an affair soon enough! Try not to focus on what did or didn't happen. Just get on with your life with DD now.

1. Because of the fact that H and her H have been friends for well over 30 years. So? My H had an affair with someone he knew for over 30 years too, we were friends with her husband. Many have affairs with a friend's spouse or mutual friend.

2. Because he was living in their house. So? They would have become pretty close and there would have been even more opportunities to get up to no good.

3. Because I knew my husband and it wasnt something he would do. Many many spouses say that - I never dreamt my H would do this either.

4. Because of the history of the stillborn baby I knew she was messed up. So she was even more open to the idea of having an affair...as a coping mechanism or an escape?

5. She was very helpful and supportive to me, told me things that my husband was saying that helped me talk to him. Yes, so that she can manipulate things to suit her agenda.

6. She was very critical of him for leaving me and daughter especially. Probably cos she wasn't ready to move onto the next step and was happy the way things were. Also she could be trying to deflect any suspicions coming her way.

7. She seemed to think he was going through a MLC and would come out of it. Again, propaganda to deflect suspicions of an affair.

What is there to be confused about?

Whatever way you look at it, simply by the manner of his leaving he's done the dirty on you and that's all you need to know.

Whether he's got his leg over with the ow is incidental as, regardless of whether they've been at it like rabbits, she won't be named in your divorce petition.

Because I knew my husband and it wasnt something he would do On a point of clarification, given his recent behaviour, you have no way of knowing what he may have done, or what he may do.

I know, you are right there. The man I am dealing with now is no longer the man I married. I don't recognise this man any more. He is the one who has changed, not me. As I have no proof of actual adultery then no, I cant name her in my divorce petition. I am seeing the solicitor on Thursday, I think we then send a letter to my H, not sure what it says/does, then we draft a divorce petition.

I have unfortunately pissed him off today. I posted on facebook that I had another sleepless night with daughter, then my friend posted was she ok for school and I said she just wouldnt settle, came in with me in the end trouble is she is insecure since her dad left, keeps thinking that Im going to disappear too, then my friend said hate to see her so emotional all the time, shes not the girl that we once knew. then another friend said sorry to hear you have split up and I then replied, yes sadly he walked out as he doesnt want to be with us any more.

He has then today deactivated his facebook account again! He could have unfriended me or blocked me, but he deactivated his whole account. I didnt rant and rave on there, I just answered a friends comment with a statement of fact?!

I guess the truth hurts........

The wife will be going on a weeks cruise any day now... It would be the perfect time to tell the husband.... he could pack the rest of her stuff and throw her out, lol. Trouble is, if he throws the pair of them out, it also throws them together possibly and they could end up moving in together as both stuck. Trying to avoid forcing that scenario.

Dont want her H to be a cuckold, but like you say, if anything going on, it will come out at some point as these things always do. In a way I wish there was something definitely going on as at least it would all make absolute sense to me then, more than it does now.

and I would feel the anger more than I am now, and stop making excuses for his behaviour....

When are you or DD expecting to see him again? Just wondering if the deactivation of his FB account is linked to the cruise and if he is going with her.....

If only there was a way of finding out for sure.

No she is definitely going with her friend, as her friend has posted about it on facebook too. Although my H did get his passport renewed a couple of weeks ago for work purposes..... BUT seriously, she is going with her friend, not him.

he has deactivated the facebook simply because I put the truth on it and it wasnt a rant aimed at him, just a truthful answer to my friends question

Walking away is what he does, skye. From jobs, from marriage, from bloody Facebook.

I'm still convinced he's going on this cruise. Friend is already colluding in the relationship - she's the same one who provided an alibi when they took your dd out and the H stayed home with the dog? This is a totally true story: two friends of mine were having an affair (he was the best friend of the woman's husband) and they decided to go away for a week together, ostensibly so she could revise for an exam or something. To Barcelona. Noted for having no distractions from revising. Anyway, they wanted me and my DH to go with them basically to provide cover that this really was just a 'friends' holiday'. I refused. They still went. Her parents were going apeshit at the idea of her having gone away with a male friend for a week (who clearly had feelings for her, recently separated from wife, etc etc) and the H still believed nothing was happening.

By the time they got back, the shit had hit the fan and everyone knew they were on holiday together so the wife was forced to confess. She pretended they'd had a fling solely in Barcelona and I was left to tell the H that no, it'd been going on since a month after his wedding.

As such, I really want to know if you're going to see your ex whilst this cruise is going on. Deactivating his account means he can't be tagged in any of her photos.

But I think that her H might notice if my H is not around at the same time as she goes on holiday, lol.

It must be next week I should think, her and her friend said 12 days and counting and that was on 16 May.

Sure but you don't know what they've told him. The H in my story knew fine well his wife was going away with another man.

I know someone whos husband was having an affair, he and the OW deliberately got their partners to book a holiday at the same resort, where they engineered to seem to make friends as couples, so the unenlightened partners chatted innocently, enjoyed the holiday etc, whilst the cheaters had assignations. Horrible.

She later found out, but took him back .

Setting aside the OW issue, how're you doing Skyebluesapphire?

Erm.....I wonder if he is going to be away 'working' next week?

You know if you let the husband know he might be able to uncover more his end and then you will have the solid proof you need to be able to move on from this.

Im not doing good. Im trying hard, but still cant stop going over and over everything in my head. Everybody I talk too says it sounds like theres somebody else......... Its just doing my head in. I cant stop crying all the time. My friend came over earlier and she said I know its not easy, but you have to forget him, stop looking back and only look forward.

I cant concentrate on my work, Ive got so much to do again and just cant find the whatever to do it. I spend every evening on the computer, talking to friends on facebook.

I feel so lonely, I feel so lost without him. Somebody told me something earlier and I thought ooh I must tell him that later, before remembering a split second later that things arent like that any more.

Im so confused as to whether they are having an affair or not. Im seeing the solicitor on Thursday to start a divorce I dont want. I still have this insane hope that he is going to see sense and come back, despite the fact that it is so obviously over.

I seem really strong to other people at times, then cant stop breaking down over it all.

I hate my life, I hate what its become, I never wanted this, I had no choice in the matter, I had no warning that it was going to end until he walked out. I stood no chance ever of putting it right. I hate myself for driving him away, for being so horrible that he couldnt stay. But then I know that everything he said was probably just excuses to be able to transfer the blame to me, when I am able to think rationally.

I hate the fact that I am so out of control. (controlling bitch that I am......)

Aww it must be really hard - remember that you have had a short time to process all this unlike your H who has been planning and thinking about it for ages and ages.

Be kind to yourself - get signed off work if necessary. Keep leaning on your friends and family.

When I was going through this I found that doing little things like going for a walk in the sunshine, having coffee in town, a bubble bath, a hair cut, buying a clothes and make up etc really helped.

Yes you are right, its just excuses. He's walked away because he chose to. Its nothing you did

You were also perfectly within your rights to put what you did on Facebook. Like you say you weren't slagging him off you were just answering questions.

Its strange how hes so sure of this yet doesn't seem to want others to know.

You have been fighting for your marriage since he walked out. He left the marriage when he first walked out in Jan/Feb.

He is a long way ahead of you in his head and heart.

Just give yourself time to grieve and mourn what you have lost. /hugs

I just wish I could stop crying all the time. Maybe this is where the doctor can help me....... I ought to find the local pot dealer, then I could just sit around and smoke myself happy, lol. would probably put back on all the weight Ive lost though if I got the munchies!

see I do still have a sense of humour.....

I think sometimes these things need to be cried out. Probably best not to bottle it up anyway. It won't be long before you'll realise you haven't cried for a day, and then a few days etc.

hopefully. My friend said I need to get angry and I am at times. I need the anger to overtake the frustration adn the fear

I think the trouble is, skye, you are certain in your own mind you could have fixed this if you had been given the opportunity. (I mentioned above this rather odd image of your marriage with your DH as the customer and you as the project manager, brought problems to solve to keep the customer satisfied ... )

But this is what he does. You've seen him walk out on jobs when it all got 'a bit stressful' or whatever line of bollocks it was he fed you. He deliberately deprives the other party of the right of reply, or the right to redress, and it means he keeps all the power, because you simply have no way to engage him. Did he ever do the 'not speaking to you' thing? Withdrawing and leaving you on the outside wondering if you'd ever be let back in?

The frustration and sense of powerlessness come from the fact he has abruptly withdrawn from you (see his pattern of behaviour mentioned above). He did not fight for his marriage, he just tossed it aside. He has chosen to do this despite your herculean efforts to get him to re-engage. He has treated you with no respect. He threw the marriage away and he cares more about people not knowing than the fact that he did this.

This is not a person you could have fixed. No-one could.

Time to stop analysing love. It'll drive you nuts.

Aaah skye. Just keep going, give yourself credit for all that you're managing to do despite this heartache.

Yes get angry! You've a lot to get angry about!

I know. I really have to stop going over and over everything in my head. Im really hoping that the doctor can give me something on Friday that will calm me down a bit and stop me feeling so anxious and desperate all the time.

I know that in one way I am doing really well, and I know that this is something that I just have to work through. Why cant we just go to sleep and wake up in 6 months time in a happy place with all the shit behind us.....

Thanks everybody for your support.

Yes you're probably suffering from stress & anxiety & maybe some medication might help for a few months. That going over things in your head again & again sounds familiar! Anti depressants helped me through that first 6 months. It's completely understandable that you'd feel this way.

ok, so people wont think Im mad if I go on anti D's then?! Its not a road I thought I would ever go down, but then I never thought Id be divorcing either so I suppose I need to accept whatever happens now!

I wouldnt want to be on them forever, but the first few months sounds good, maybe get me through the divorce or something.

Get on the ADs - they will help you cope. I found them a god-send. Thinking of you. Keep going.

skye - no-one need know you are taking them (perhaps an ironic thing to say given your H's intent on no-one knowing about your separation). It's a medical decision between you and your GP. I would be very clear with your GP that you have no wish to take ADs long term, or in quantities that could be addicting, and take his/her advice on that basis.

No one would think that you are mad. You just need help over a crisis.

I used to take them. No one thought i was mad . . . I don't think! But i don't give a fuck anyway. It was my mental health so no one else's business. Saying that though i did openly tell people, but that's because i felt i had nothing to be even remotely embarrassed about. If anyone had issues with it i don't know, but if they had expressed any they would have been told to shove them up their arse!

Fuckety fuck, shoot me now . I texted her again....., I know I know........

She said he has stopped paying money in because I want his key back. She said don't divorce he's still not certain, he said its over because I don't trust him anymore, he doesn't know where to go from here. Remote possibility he might come back ....

She said we need to talk , he here seeing daughter now going to talk in a bit
but he has to go by 6.30 and it's 5 now !

What the fuck!

You text the woman he has had secret interactions with, possibly has had his cock up!? Seriously? Have a nice little chat did you?

She's telling you that he has stopped paying money into your account because you've asked for his key back! He left you and told you it was over, of course you want your key back! Actually i wouldn't have bothered asking just changed the locks. Why didn't you do that? I suspect it was for a reaction from him. To see if he would changes mind. You need to stop clinging on to that!

What the fuck is all the trust thing about? He's telling people you don't trust him which is why he left? Are you fucking kidding me!? The bloke is trying to put the blame on YOU . . . AGAIN!

Can't you see that? Stop being such a mug! Please?

And stop talking to that fucking manipulative whore of a woman!

PLEASE don't do this skye, this is totally inappropriate (not exactly a stretch for this woman). It has NOTHING to do with her and you cannot rely on anything she says as being factual.

Starting divorce proceedings does not commit you to anything. But his actions speak louder than her words - he has stopped paying money because you have acted on his desertion. HE LEFT YOU, end of.

We can all say the same thing until we are blue in the face. Ultimately only you can move yourself out of this hell you continue to allowed yourself to be kept in.

Why are you still listening to what she is telling you when he is by both words and actions telling you something completely different?

So his latest excuse is because you don't trust him any more Come on sweet heart get real.

You know that this is just the latest reason. Making it all your fault yet again. Funny this wasn't one of his original reason why he left you. It is just more dredged up. There will be another and another. Just re read that email if you want to know what he is blaming you for. You really want to return to a marriage with someone saying all that about you?

He is with-holding money as a punishment not caring if you or your DD are now struggling. Where is the caring husband and father in that?

He has to go by 6:30? Why? Clearly this is all the time scale he is going to allow to talk about your marriage. How much can you resolve in that?
Good luck.

Please for your own health stop engaging.

For what it is worth it is none of her fucking business why he has stopped paying money. She is still completely involved and what sort of a friend of yours would allow a man to continue to stay at their house when he is treating his family this way?

Good luck.

Get a grip OP they are playing you.
As long as this situation exists with "will he wont he" senario thay are free to continue their affair using this as a smoke screen.

Where is your self respect ? He has told you HE DOESN'T WANT YOU--what more does he have to say.

Doha. You really need to cling onto some self respect here!

Why are you having cosy chats with the other woman? The person who has contributed massively to the break down of your marriage? You've seen it yourself in black and white.

Do you even really want him to come back? If he came back now after everything he has said it would most likely be because he can no longer stay at his friends house and has no where to go. He has told you plainly that its over. Accept it.

As for her, she keeps telling you this stuff, none of which actually corresponds with what HE is saying.

He's lying to everyone about the reason for the breakdown to blame you. He's an arse.

Meant to say i agree with doha, not that doha needs self respect!

poopoo you had me worried for a minute there

Skye, sometimes you are your own worst enemy.

Get a grip, get onto the practicalities, stop texting ffs!

And why is he at yours seeing DD? Please don't tell us you're cooking for him again. Because I really might have to shoot you then.

<looks around for anniegetyourgun>

Oh honestly why are you ignoring our advice? Why are you asking for it? I feel like saying suit yourself!!! It really is no skin off our noses if you stay in this ménage a trois for the rest of your days but you need to stop asking for advice if you don't want to take it. Your call honey - it's your life!

I'm not giving any more advice after this......

What I will say is that you need to speak to somebody professional now.

So what happened op?

<<hands Dozer Colt .45>>

<<loads Smith & Wesson>>

<<waits for OP to appear in line of sight>>

I just cannot understand you Skye.

At the very very best it is none of this woman's business and has not helped you one iota to speak to her.

At worst - and what I truly believe and so do others - is that she is pulling your strings because she's stealing your husband.

You have to get a grip.

gah

have got solicitor in the morning. am a lot clearer about what to do now. nothing has changed, I asked him if he was 100% certain that its what he wants, before I go down the divorce road and he said yes.

So yet again the woman was talking shit, why does she do that!

Oh skye, I'm sorry you put yourself through this again, it feels as if in some horrific way she is testing his commitment to her by forcing you to jump through the hoop over and over again of asking if there is any hope for you.

Please don't communicate with her again. For your own sanity. Either he is blatantly lying to her too or she is completely stirring it for her own purposes. Neither of which helps you in the slightest.

She does it bacause she can get a reaction and continue to feed the drama and as l said before while their is "hope" of a reconciliation there is a smokescreen for their affair.
She is loathsome--as is he.
Now STOP the texting, pleading etc. IT IS OVER..
Get the solicitor to start the proceedings and when you can please alert the OW DH to what has been happening,
THe poor sod needs to know just what his DW and friend have been up to behind his back

I just had a momentary lapse earlier. I know I shouldnt have done it, but the good thing that did come out of it was that we did talk about stuff tonight because of what she said.

he texted to see daughter, and after getting her texts which pissed me off, I asked him to stay and talk. I didnt cook tea, I didnt even offer him a drink!

I asked if he was going to pay in this week as he hadnt yet and he said he didnt have any money. So I said well we need to sort this out as you have a responsibility to your daughter. He said how much do you want and I said I dont know. I suggested £60 a week and he said he would pay £100 if he could each week and also help out with school uniform in September and pay half of her shoes...... I think by what friends have said that £100 a week is pretty good, so didnt argue with him....

I said are you sure its over, I did ask him to be certain, he said you want a divorce, I said I dont WANT one, I have to get one, which is different! He said you dont trust me now anyway, so I explained why, I told him about the facebook chat and he said it was just them being silly. I said it proves that her H doesnt know that she was texting you and he said her H does know. I said I could ring him now and tell him and he said go on then! I didn't.............
I said are you seeing her, I would rather know than be lied to and he said there is nothing going on....

we did talk about the house, mortgage and divorce and I said if he agrees with my petition, it will save us both a lot of money, but I didnt tell him what was going in it (not sure myself until see solictor tomorrow anyway). I told him I had made an appointment, but didnt say it was tomorrow......

I asked him several times if he was certain that he wants to walk away from his home, child, marriage, wife and he is certain. He is sure that I wont change, that I am what I am (and I havent changed, he is the one who has changed). I told him that I am less stressed out now, that I deal with things differently and that if he doesnt give it a chance he will never know and he will regret it in a few years.

So I know I shouldnt have texted her and I WILL NOT do it again... but at least it made me talk to him and sort some stuff out.

Still havent got my bloody door key back though!

PS,. Please dont shoot me!! I know what I want now and I finally accept he is never coming back.

He still knows he can have you back anytime, and you still seem to hope he'll come back (and think that you have to change / accept everything he's done).

It's cruel and manipulative of him to make out that it's you wanting a divorce and that you have trust issues, it's gas-lighting (whether or not he has had a physical affair).

You are making progress in some ways though, at least he got no refreshments!

Hope sol goes OK tomorrow.

Actually the only step forward you made in that entire scenario was not making him tea.

Sorry to be harsh. I think I am angry with him and her for being such ruthless cunts - but your total inability to see what is in front of your face is making me angry with you! I know you are going through hell and I only wish you well.

He is still blaming you for this. You want a divorce, you don't trust him, you won't change. It is not you it is him. Nothing you do to change yourself will change him.

One of them is lying to you. He either hasn't paid you to punish you for asking for the key back (her take/shit stirring) or he is not paying you because he 'doesn't have the money'. You cannot win anything with liars, you are wasting your time.

Money each week if he can is unacceptable. It should be money each week. What about when he can't? Or just decides he can't? Your DD needs to come first on that money. £60 a week set in stone is better than £100 this week, £100 in three weeks if he can, £100 two weeks after that if he can...

If something is going on or not he is not going to suddenly turn around and say 'oh yes you are right...'

You do need to back away now.

Neither of these people are your friend.

Aah, we won't shoot you, since you didn't make tea!

(Don't believe have seen anyfucker lost for words before!)

Am sorry you're having to go through all this. Take care of yourself.

Just change the locks and then you don't have to worry about the key.

He is sure that I wont change, that I am what I am (and I havent changed, he is the one who has changed). I told him that I am less stressed out now, that I deal with things differently and that if he doesnt give it a chance he will never know and he will regret it in a few years.

You are still trying to please him, to convince him to come home, accepting responsibility for him leaving by saying you are different now, willing to live you life trying to please him and bend over backwards to stop him leaving again. Something which would exhaust you.

But, the problem is still him, he still runs away when things are tough and has inappropriate relationships with other women.

By saying you have changed you are accepting responsibility and confirming what he says, that you were the problem. Do you actually believe that? After everything?

skye, please read again what tribpot said

I think she has hit the nail on the head re. why this woman is telling you this stuff that isn't being borne out by your H

she is testing his commitment to you, checking to see that even if you go down on bended knee to him (which you seem rather frustratingly to keep doing) that he is staying faithful to her

can't you see it ?

I really hope not, AF, it's hard to believe anyone would be so needlessly cruel. Even after everything this pair have done so far.

As for this: He is sure that I wont change, that I am what I am - FUCK ME could he be more passive aggressive? "I accept you can never become a decent wife, still, them's the breaks eh love?" Patronising fucker

It's cruel and manipulative of him to make out that it's you wanting a divorce and that you have trust issues, it's gas-lighting (whether or not he has had a physical affair).

I agree!

I think she knows exactly how much he's wrapped around her little finger and does not need to test that - she is doing all this to show how caring and entirely without agenda she was, how she begged wife to give it another chance. She never wanted to break a family up. It all just happened after the marriage was over.

I know he is blaming me for this, I cant do anything right. All I wanted to do I suppose is to be absolutely certain myself, that this is what he wants, so that I can proceed with the divorce with no doubts on my part. No more if only's, or maybe's or anything like that.

He kicked me in the teeth again, at my own request, but at least I don't need to ask again. I made him feel bad, I cried a lot, he even actually shed a tear himself!!!!!! BASTARD - out of guilt no doubt. I told him that he didnt even care about me any more and he said he did, but I said no you dont, you wouldnt have treated me so badly if you did. I said that one thing I asked you not to do was string me along with our date, and thats exactly what you did, I asked you several times if you were sure you wanted to do it and you said yes, I said it was very very unfair to do that to me.

I told him that I know he enjoyed himself on the date and that I know that we could be happy again, but he is too much of a coward to even try. I said he let his daughter down by not trying as hard as he could to sort things out and I said that our marriage wasnt a job he could just walk out of, it was my life and Daughters life. I said I dont want her coming from a broken home, thats why i would have done anything to sort it out.

I also said its not just about what you want, its about what I want too. I said even after all the nastiness I would have still gone out with him again, thats how strongly I felt that we could sort it out. But I said that if he was certain, then that was it.

I told him that his flat needs to be suitable for daughter, that it doesnt need to be 2 bedroom while she is young, she can have his bed and he can sleep on the sofa (assuming he can afford one ) I told him its no concern of mine where he lives or what he can afford, I am only concerned about daughters welfare.

You need to get the financial arrangements set in concrete

this man is going to fuck you around with money

and so far, it looks like you are going to allow it

I will tell my solicitor tomorrow that he has said £100 a week. Does that go on the statement of arrangement thingy or is that just about access? I will make sure it goes in the solicitors letter to him anyway.

I know that we could be happy again

Skye, this man could never make anyone happy long term. It would not even occur to him to try. He has never shown any inclination to treat you as an equal partner in a marriage and not his relationship customer service manager.

Although on a practical level it makes very little difference at the moment whether you can ever reconcile this with what you believe caused the end of your marriage, I do believe you need to come to terms with the fact that the only way your marriage could have continued would have been for you to live in a perpetual lie. And that this condition would have been caused by him.

You've said all of that to him a million times before.

Ignore the advice on here at your peril.

Toughen up quick or he will bend you over and fuck you up the arse.

I know. I am a lot clearer in my mind again now. I do know that he is the weak one for walking away and I am the strong one for trying to fight. I know that he is not the man I thought he was. I know that I am better off on my own than living a lie.

I asked him how long he had been unhappy as I want to know how long we were living a lie and he just said he couldnt say how long, it just built up over time. I reminded him that after daughter was born 4 years ago he said he loved me more than ever and that we were so happy then and were for a long time after. I told him that he will not bring me down, thinking that he was unhappy for years as I know that he wasnt.

I am taking control now as he still doesnt see the point in rushing into the divorce. Well fuck him, this is about what I want now.

Well fuck him, this is about what I want now

Wahoo!

Please make today the last time you text your 'friend' and the last time you engage with your exH

You must be dizzy from going round in circles

Time to take some pride in yourself

Undermyskin, if I had a pound for every time OP had been given that specific advice, I would be currenty sipping cocktails in The Seychelles and not sat on my sofa in a Grim Northern Town sharing a teabag with my DH

Hopefully this is the last circle, its a straight line from now on, straight to the divorce court.

I still love him, but hopefully those feelings will start to go soon.

No one's saying you can just turn your feelings off or that it's not terribly difficult and painful for you.

But you CAN control what you say and do - it's imperative that you disengage but you just aren't grasping how fucking important that is on so many levels.

He has checked out of your marriage. No amount of asking, telling, pleading, texting, dating can change that.

Because you have made it clear you are still willing to take him back, even after The Email Of Self Indulgence - he sniffs weakness. And he will take advantage and he will fuck you over financially if you are not careful.

Once more, then I won't post on this thread again - HE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH THIS OTHER WOMAN. AND THAT IS AAAALLLL HE IS REALLY FOCUSSED ON, EVERyTHING ELSE IS JUST WHITE NOISE.

AF Sharing teabags, its surprising how far they go. I once made three cups with one bag!

Oh I am now, believe me. I will not be contacting her again, I know I said it before, but I mean it now.

I wont be contacting him again either, apart from to ask for my key.... and obviously have to respond if he asks about daughter. but he only enquires about access, he never asks how she is or anything!

I have finally accepted it, I felt I had to give it one last shot before I see the solicitor tomorrow, so that I can go to that appointment, head held high, knowing that there is nothing more I can do.

If he comes back at any point (which I doubt he will), but if he does, I honestly now know that it would never work and that he is not the man that I thought he was and that he is not the man that I need to be with.

As and when affair is discovered, then I shall turn round and say well I knew it all along. and I have told his brother ages ago about the texts, so his family will know the truth as well if it all comes out at some point.

Don't keep giving him chances to hurt you still more. Enough, now?

To quote a v cheesy dido song you have more than gone down with this ship. It's like groundhog day meets titanic!

What's happened to you that you will put up with so much and still seek reunion, on any terms?

Questioning him about what went wrong and when won't work - he will never give you positive, true answers, only reinvention of history and yet more criticism. Seeking to persuade him that you could be happy again together - what about your happiness?

Hope your RL friends can help in the next few days, have DD for a bit or cook or anything.

Given how he has already messed you around with money, I would go to CSA and get them to collect it for you. CSA's guidelines is something like 15% of his income for one child.

This man is not to be trusted and OW will pull his financial strings before too long....

I agree with going to the csa. Don't give him the chance to "not have it this week", living like that will only stress you out.

I wouldn't bother asking for the keys either, i would just get the lock changed. He was there yesterday, why didn't he leave it when he left yesterday?

Glad that you feel more sure of what is happening.

CSA babe. Avoid further discussions about money. You may well get less than £100 pw but it'll be regular. Change locks & send him the bill.

Late again... I heard somebody call? Damn, looks like I missed the shooting.

Well here's a really cheesy old (but true) number to remind you what you need to do. It even mentions the key issue. That songwriter must have known.

It also shows there's nothing new under the sun. Some men - and women - have always behaved like this and they probably always will, unfortunately.

oh and, let me add my voice to the myriads stressing this... DO. NOT. TRUST. THAT. WOMAN. She's got an agenda. Maybe it isn't what we all suspect it is (though frankly I don't see how it could be anything else), but it is so obviously not one that helps you.

Don't text him again.

He knows that you want the key back. You gain nothing from texting him regarding it again. All you are doing is contacting him.

If him having access is an issue fit a second lock for 'security purposes' as you are now alone in the house and don't tell him.

If he and she are colluding you will just be giving them more fuel to laugh/bitch/sneer at your pathetic attempts to keep contact.

He put the key in daughters bag so I have it back now. I have seen the solicitor, letter going tomorrow stating that I'm filing for divorce and that he needs a solicitor. They said it will be posted tomorrow so I'm hoping he might get it Saturday in time for his birthday on Sunday.

He is not going on the cruise with her, she is going with her female friend.

I have had it with him now. I can't stop loving him just like that but I am sick of him and his pathetic behaviour and hus excuses and he is a total bastard for walking out on his daughter. Her H will deffo be getting the information at some point in the future when they are not expecting it, maybe after mediation to sort out finances- if he will agree to go -

The next time I text him it will be before the ink dries on the decree absolute and it will be to say Happy Divorce Day, I'm better off without you, fuck off you twat,

Hur... stops mid-cheer. I'll raise a full cheer if a full week goes by without you having texted him/her or otherwise revealed what you're up to through third parties or on FB or similar spawn of the devil sites.

Skye you must now really steal yourself to stick to your intentions - no more contact to ask once again if it really, really is over, each time racheting up the anti. OK. What has been is in the past, start afresh today with a new resolve.

I for one did a good bit of snivelling to my exP when he left. If I could erase that bit of history I would for the simple reason that remembering it makes me feel less good about myself. A dignified silence is the best road, that and directing all your energy into looking after your interests and those of your DD. Dignity runs through Borntofolk's recent thread; I wish I could have been like her 3 years ago.

Put on an act for now - outward calm despite inner turmoil. Limit communication to about your DD. If you feel you are tempted to contact him or his 'friend' distract yourself or just write down what you want to say but don't send it. You know you will just feel more wretched if you send one more text or make one more call. Slowly the acting will not be an effort because you will be accepting of your new and very changed life, and will be taking steps to make it a happy one. One evening a little way into the future you will realise you have not given him a second thought all day; tis strange when that happens, and you will be proud of what you have achieved.

The bastard just emailed me! He said "I see that you were trying to sell your George Michael tickets on facebook. (he has come off it but must have seen a few days ago that I was trying to sell the tickets). I know how much you wanted to go and I really dont want you to miss out, so I am happy to take you and go with you although I understand you may not want to. I am also happy to take you and somebody else and wait and drive you home again"

What fucking planet is he on?! I had to email him back, sorry, but no choice!

I said " I dont see how we could go to see George Michael if we are not together as its quite a romantic show and I wanted to go with the husband that I used to love, not a man who doesnt want to be with me. Divorced couples dont usually spend a lot of time together. I don't have the heart to go and see it with anybody else".

Then I said "I had my solicitor appointment today, a letter will be with you shortly. The divorce petition will follow later. After speaking to you last night I can see that this is the way forward, this is what I need to do, I am certain now. I give up on you".

How the hell does he think I would want to go to a concert with him?! He is right, I really did want to go, but with him as my husband, not as my ex, or with a friend! He is flaming deluded? Trying to be Mr Nice Guy?

He's going to get a shock when he gets the divorce petition. Not sure just yet what solicitor is going to put, but he is going to draft it, and he is definitely going to put down "Inappropriate contact with Mrs XX XX by email, text and facebook as one of the reasons for unreasonable behaviour. So she wont be named as in adultery but her name will be on the petition! Neither of them will like that!!

Whoo Hoo!! Go me!!

You do have a choice. You could have ignored the text. It was nothing important. Stop texting him back. Disconnect and stop contacting.

As your DD has a bag get a diary so that you and he can put important information in it. It will reduce your need to speak/contact him further.

Oh Sapphire even replying to stupid emails like that is engaging. STOP IT!!!!!!

Yeah, go you <<yawn>> Round in the same tired old circles.

I had to email him back, sorry, but no choice Of course you had a choice but, as per usual, you made the wrong one.

As for the wording you used - yet another loss of face and, in replying within minutes of receiving his missive, you've showed you're hanging round just waiting/longing for him to contact you.

You haven't taken on board any of the advice you've been given on either this or your other thread and I'm beginning to wonder why you posted here.

sorry, but I didnt want him to think that I was considering going with him and I didnt want him to email me and ask me again. I thought if I emailed back and made it clear, then he wouldnt bother emailing me again... It really upset me when I got the email that he could be so insensitive as to think I would even contemplate going with him. Hopefully he wont email me again now.

skye every time you let him know how upset you are, by email or whatever it is, you're feeding his ego.

he's LOVING the fact that he has such a hold over you.

don't give him that satisfaction. every time you do it, you're placing yourself into a weaker and weaker emotional position. you're feeding your own anxiety and pain by letting him in, and interacting with him.

the best response to that email, skye, would have been a big fat zero

or if you really couldn't resist a response... "are you fucking joking ???"

skyeblue.. I've been reading your thread and I'm very sorry for you BUT do you really think that not answering his texts and e-mails would have led him on in any way? No. You want to be in contact at the moment, you're craving it and in some way you're feeding the drama and desperate for it to continue. I can understand that because in some way, you need this to carry on for now, relinquishing your interest only when you've had enough. This was foisted on you and you aren't ready to let go... I get that.

If you keep replying, you will really, really regret it later on when it will still all be over but you'll be cringeing at your own behaviour because it comes across as desperate and needy. None of this was your fault but how you handle this now is all important for your self-esteem - and for your daughter to see strength in her mother.

If you're really determined to keep chatting away to him and not having the control - or wanting to have te control - to stop it, then I hope for your daughter's sake that she's completely oblivious. I doubt it though because you sound completely obsesssed.

I thought I was taking control by emailing him back and telling him no way. I thought that I was doing the right thing to stop him contacting me again. I just burst into tears when I got the email and my daughter was here and did see it, so I dont want him emailing me again and asking something so stupid. I thought I was doing the right thing to stop him asking again.

I presume someone has already suggested a new phone for you and keep the old one inalocked--cupboard--under--deep--water somewhere safe for DD contact issues so you DON'T TEXT HIM. Ditto with email acounts...one for him, one for the stuff you actually need to see.

step away OP, step away. let the legals do their stuff.

He is not going to be surprised at the divorce petition either, skyeblue because you've TOLD him about it. If you stop talking to him, he will certainly stop talking to YOU, which you say is what you want. I don't think it is, not right at the moment. Do you even remember what you're texting/emailing half the time? It sounds quite mindless - just knee-jerk responses to the pain he's causing you. He seems to quite enjoy it; if he didn't, if he really did care for you - he'd stop it.

Everything you say and do reads to me as "I'm going to divorce you, I really, really will, if it's really, really what you want, is it? Yes, but is it really, really what you want? Are you sure, really?". It shouldn't be his decision now - it's YOURS. Don't take his feelings into consideration because you're not a couple anymore - and HE did that to you. Start getting angry but not like this, non-stop thinking of him - a cold fury... he will get the message immediately. You're not sending him mixed signals at the moment you're telling him, "Come home, I don't care what you did, just come home and tell me what I want to hear". Don't do that, for your own sake, please don't.

You cannot stop him e-mailing you but you can stop reading them - just delete them, ditto the texts. Stop texting. Is there anybody in your life that you just have to text? If not, switch your phone off and leave it off.

You can only control what YOU do, that's it. Please hold it together for your daughter's sake. You understand what's going on - she doesn't and is too young to get the minutiae of it all. She doesn't need that stress and can't handle it. Rant here and out with your friends - no harm will come to you and you'll be able to hold your head up high and eventually move on to the life you deserve.

I understand that you thought you were taking control, skye, but what you said was: I wanted to go with the husband that I used to love, not a man who doesnt want to be with me

Honest, but not smart. It will feed another cycle of texts, recriminations, doubts, regrets. Let it go. By all means tell him not to contact you again, just a one liner to that effect. You've practically begged for another response, which will kick you in the teeth again if you're not careful.

Detach detach, and yes - he is a complete idiot asking if you'd like him to drive you to a concert you were meant to attend together. He wants a reaction: you gave it to him.

Chin up - tomorrow's another day. You've made huge steps forward, keep your eyes on the future.

I wasnt going to tell him I saw the solicitor, but my mum was here and she said just tell him, so he's knows that you have done it and that you are serious, as he seems to think Im bluffing and won't go through with it, that I just keep saying it but won't do it.

My solicitor said we dont have evidence of adultery, so difficult to put that down, but unreasonable behaviour we can do, he will draft it and let me see it. But he said he will definitely put her name down as the judge prefers to see innapropriate contact with X XX rather than just inappropriate texting etc. So I agreed to it. It will piss him off big time I know, and her as he is bound to tell her. If I get any shit from either of them then, I WILL NOT respond to it.

I just hope it doesnt affect the settlement. The solicitor said we should go through mediation to confirm access and settlement he receives from the house etc. H said last night that he would be fair and I could keep what I put in, but I dont know, once he sees a solicitor he could change if they push him to get what he is entitled to. He needs to remember that its all for his daughter ultimately.........

Adulterous behaviour does not affect the settlement, aiui, which is more about making sure any DC are Ok and the adults can move on with their lives.

Sorry, but saying 'it will piss him off big time' shows you aren't yet detached. The idea is to get to the point where you don't care how he reacts or feels. I do understand though, that you are only human...

Also 'keeping what you put in' may be far from fair! (I don't know your circumstances, sorry if you already posted them). On this one, take the advice of your solicitor, and above all, Do Not, Repeat Not, discuss it with stbx.

I made £88K on the sale of my old house, then we bought this together after we married and put in joint names. I put about £68K into this one, paid all the fees, stamp duty etc and paid for carpets, painting throughout, furniture, curtains etc. i also paid off a loan that he had at the time of £8K.

The equity at the moment is about £90K, so I dont think he should get much. But the solicitor said that unfortunately nowadays the judge doesnt look at who put what in, but at the need for accommodation for both parties. Also H has paid the mortgage for 4 years since I had daughter. If H agrees to walk away with £10K or something relatively small, then I think thats the best I can hope for. He wont get it for 14 years anyway, or if I remarry. But if he gets nasty and wants 50/50, I dont know what will happen. He cant force a sale though, my solicitor said that. and H said last night that he would stay on the mortgage if it helped me, but I said he would have to come off the deeds. Due to his previous financial problems, bankruptcy and credit card debt all before he met me, then I need him off the deeds to the house......

Talking to a brick wall springs to mind - us to you that is, not you to him.

If we, people that don't know you, feel your 'hard hitting' texts and emails come accross as toothless, how do you think he sees them?

Why do you think he emailed?? Just to make sure you are still in 'want you back/not angry/making idle threats' mode. He's just checking nothing's changed. And it hasn't.

Ah, I see. What your sol says accords with what mine says, and what I've read on the internet. Sounds like you have a good grip of the financials. Sadly exes do sometimes turn on a sixpence when the settlement negotiations are under way.

Am involved in settlement dispute, but my circs are wildly different from yours. Keep strong, it is stressful, but I found I could ride out the stress and it would subside till the next time

Sorry to hear of your set back skye. Cruel and insensitive of him to make that offer and designed to continue casting him in role of 'good guy' i echo all previous posters who say you simply must NOT engage with this man in any shape or form.

Skye, we're giving you a hard time here, we just want you to be OK and minimise further pain. and a (nice, chocolate)

Pinkpussycat, it may be a little soon for detachment! But detached, coolness with undercurrent of righteous anger might be worth aiming for, on the surface at least - fake it 'til you make it!

I just seem to get knocked down again every time that i pick myself up and think that I'm doing ok.

I can't stop my feelings, I only wish I could just switch them off. I have stopped wondering what he is doing all the time but I can't stop thinking about what he has fone to us, especially how he could do this to daughter.

I try to be strong and I try to hate him but it just doesn't work

What he has done to us that should say

Dozer yes it's a long process - although in my case when eventually it came, it came v quickly. Still under same roof, so sometimes it slips - but into annoyance and being wound up I give thanks for MN every single day!

Your reply just made you sound weak again. You would between better off keeping quite about the whole concert thing and letting him wonder if you had gone and who with.

Don't be too hard on yourself skye, the fact is you do keep picking yourself up, which shows strength. No point in trying to hate him. Anger is ok though, if it comes.

You will get there skye. Going to take time. We all only show exasperation because we want you to make the right choices which will help you and aid you maintaining some dignity in this terrible situation. Please please listen and heed the advice given x

Through all of this you seem to have kept up constant contact. Asking for dates, asking him to come home, texting her all the time, writing him long letters, asking him over and over if he's sure . . . etc

Is that just the way you are about things anyway?

I was just desperate to try and get him to see what he was doing, what he was walking away from, but I know now that I never stood a chance. He made his decision all on his own back in Feb and I didn't even know he was unhappy. That is what I have struggled with more than anything and still am. That's why I wanted him to give it another go. I was so convinced he must be having some sort of crisis as he was behaving so out of character.

But he checked out a long time ago and bought into her life and I never stood a chance

i'm sorry skye. i know this is very hard. he has hurt you dreadfully and it's so unfair isn't it, the fact that he never gave you a chance.

you deserve so much better than what he has put you through.

the ladies here are basically all trying to help you remember that. every time you try to get him to understand, or to see what he's doing, he just takes it as an ego-stroke...because he knows his mind is made up, and every word you say he just takes as proof that you adore him and he has tonnes of power over you. he's not taking your words as you mean them at all.

Yeah I get that. I want to hurt him or let him know how upset I am but of course he doesn't give a damn. He said last night he will always care about me and I said that the way he treated me in the end proves that's not true.

no more contact until mediation etc

In case it's not clear, we are all aching for you and appreciate the emotional hell you are in. You are doing so well in simply putting one foot in front of the other and seeing your solicitor, being a good mother etc.

But we are beyond exasperated about your contact with him and That Dreadful Woman (TDW).

Your passivity and naivety towards TDW is frankly utterly staggering - almost uniquely so.

I would like to ask PooPoo's question too as this might help you think/talk? Is this typical of you in 'normal life'...Have you ever learned how to self preserve when it comes to people taking advantage...learned how to walk away with dignity, not allow people to rip the piss out of you? Can you even read the signs that this is happening? Do friends and family often take advantage of your passive nature? Do you often find yourself flogging a dead horse when it comes to, say, dying friendships? Do you find it impossible to let go of feelings?

But he checked out a long time ago and bought into her life and I never stood a chance

No you didn't

You have got to break the cycle. To do this it would be good if you could find something that occupied you so you do not constantly thrash everything through a million times.

This is all a bit simplistic, but is there any exercise you do? When exP and I split I took up running - and I am older than you. I stuck headphones on and hurled my old body around the local park. I was completely absorbed for a while and it gave me some peace. The important thing was that I was taking action to help me.

I'm just having a really bad day today, everybody is talking about the jubilee weekend and it just guts me for several reasons. I should be spending the weekend with him, we should be together as a family. We got together ten years ago so were together for the last jubilee , we attended the street party together , we walked up to the beacon lighting together and we went out together the next day to the beach where we had our date a couple of weeks ago and I met his family for the first time. It's just so many memories crashing in on me and destroying me.

I need to get a grip. I'm seeing the doctor this afternoon so will see what she comes up with. I can't concentrate on my work and I need to stay on top of it or I could lose work

It took me a good twelve months to get over my last serious relationship but he ended it then kept messing me around saying lets try again then changing his mind

Skye, you are torturing yourself. You cannot seriously add to your distress because there is significance for you former relationship in the Jubilee weekend! First christmas since separation are tough I will grant you, but first jubillee weekend.....Make it your own, go to the street party ...do it for your DD and you never know you may find yourself having a bit of fun.

I bet it's hard to concentrate on work and this will just fuel more anxiety. If you cannot put work aside for today, do it in short bursts interspersed with sitting in the sun, and then congratulate yourself for getting something done.

You are wallowing which is quite understandable. But for your own sanity you have to start pointing in the right direction and look to the future

Skye, I've been following you but not sure I've posted before. You are torturing yourself with the past. And then if there is any contact you will then be so wound up you will react.

I can't imagine how hard it is at the moment but could you try to act how you want to feel? What I mean is you don't seem ready to detach but if instead of sharing your most intimate thoughts with this utterly shoddy excuse for a man you act like you feel cold fury and respond accordingly, stock phrase like "that would not be appropriate" perhaps? So ill give you money when I can "that would not be appropriate" ad infinitum, I'll take you to a concert "that would not be appropriate". I know that's crap advice but detaching seems currently impossible for you. Whatever you do in the name of (your) sanity if he contacts you DO NOT get straight back to him. Go a walk. Buy a punch bag and beat it as if it had eviscerated you. Do anything to get him out of your head. And if you must respond calm, rational and dignified. Remember in a year you will look back on how you are acting right now. Remember you are teaching your daughter how relationships work.

You are pursuing the man you thought you had married with such single mindedness. When you turn that single mindedness onto protecting yourself emotionally and getting him out of your life it will be truly awesome.

Morning Skye,

I just want to say I think Undermyskin has made an excellent suggestion.

Exercise will take your mind off things and get you fit/ fitter at the same time.

I think running/ walking outdoors is particularly good for clearing the mind,which brings me to my next piece of advice:

There is no point,repeat no point in looking back to happier times. This will keep you lower for longer. You need to look to the future now and you can and will have happy times again. The sooner you leave the past behind the sooner this will happen.

This Jubilee can be the start of new happy memories for you and DD.

I know that I have to get a grip, but everything just seems to get me at the moment. Its his birthday on Sunday. We had a night away in a hotel booked, and now he will be spending it presumably with his friends. He will have daughter on his birthday on the Sunday. It's all just too much. We should be celebrating his birthday together. I know I need to stop but I really just cant get a grip at the moment. I am hoping the doctor can give me something to stop the anxiety and the crying.

I am going out with a couple of friends tonight, but am so afraid that I am going to end up crying in the corner. I havent had a drink since he left, apart from 1 glass of wine one evening with a friend.

I am going to the street party with daughter and my neighbours as I dont want daughter to miss out. We have our holiday in July to look forward to and I hope to god that I am feeling better than this in a few weeks. Although its nearly 2 months since he left now, I still feel like its only weeks because of the date and him messing me around.

I hate the fact that I am divorcing him, its not what I want, but realise that I have to do it to take back the control, why should I sit around until he decides he wants to do it? I also need financial security with the house.

All this is quite understandable, really it is. I don't think anyone fails to understand how confused and miserable you are. Obviously it's going to be hard to get your head round and of course you're mourning that nice, ordinary family life that's been bewilderingly snatched away. Hope the doctor is properly supportive because you really could do with it right now.

But why is everybody on here shouting at you? It's because they know how easy it is to get sucked into the game-playing and how unproductive that will be. Sometimes it's easier to see a situation clearer when you're not in the thick of it. How many posters have said to you they've been in your shoes and found what did and didn't work, what they did and what they wished they'd done? They're the ones saying loudest "detach, detach, don't engage!". The chorus may come over as a little overwhelming at times, and seem judgemental, but really it's a whole bunch of women who've been dicked about by idiot men in the past, all willing you to get through this with a lot less pain than they did.

We're all on your side, you know, even if it sometimes doesn't feel like it; and most of us are quite smart, especially in hindsight.

thank you for the support. I am not going to contact them again and only replied this time because I thought I should.

I can see them both contacting me when the petition goes out with her name on it. She wont get a copy as its not adultery as we have no evidence, but I met my H will tell her and I bet you I get angry texts from her after. BUT I will NOT respond. It will be another couple of weeks I would imagine any way, by the time my solicitor gets the draft to me and I approve it and they get it sent to him.

I can't believe how my life got so fucked up, just because he did his mate a favour and gave his wife a lift to Uni a couple of times. They were never in contact before then.

I hope to god that he comes out of this infatuation in the near future and actually realises what he has lost. Not that he could come back to me, even though its all I want in one way, I DO realise that it is all different now and that it would never work.

I don't need a man who can treat me and my daughter like this, he is not the man that I thought he was. I would have trusted him with my life before.

Hi Skye, been reading your thread for a while, and just wanted to say that you're doing really well. The fact that you've contacted a solicitor shows that at one level at least you're looking out for your own and your dd's interests.

I'm wondering about your current inability to get angry with him and the OW. Do you think it might be because if you really did get in touch with your anger at the way they are treating you it might unleash a volcanic rage that you wouldn't know what to do with? One useful thing to remember is that you don't have to act on feelings, you can just stay with them, however uncomfortable they are. You do sound like you react quite a bit e.g. immediately emailing him back when he made the stupid suggestion about the concert. Perhaps it would be good to practice not outwardly reaction for a while, even whilst at the same time acknowledging your feelings and caring for yourself.

I don't think your life got fucked up because he did his mate a favour. He fucked your life up because he's that kind of man. So sorry he's betrayed you, but he's unlikely to wake up to that fact any time soon.

I just found it so hard to believe that there could be something going on because its his best friend of over 30 years, she was supportive while we were trying to get back together, they are both adamant that nothing is going on, he is living in their house and I cant believe he would do that if there was something going on. I chose to believe it as it seemed so bizarre that there could be something going on.

I am angry at the level of contact and did discuss it with him again the other night, but he just says "oh you just cant get past it can you".

He simply won't accept that she made him feel good by all the texting, that whatever her responses were, it made him feel needed and happy because he felt that I was making him unhappy and he turned to her. My solicitor has seen it all before and he made me count some of the texts some days and in the week after our holiday and before he left finally, he was texting her 100 times a day. He had a late job on the Thursday evening before Good Friday and he got home around 12.45am. I waited up for him thinking it was a nice thing to do. When I checked his mobile phone records, he had texted her around 12.30am. Obviously to let her know he was home safe. (He definitely did the job as he put a photo on facebook of the Nestle factory that he delivered to when he got there).

He texted her 140 times the day before we went on holiday. He says this was because he was nervous about going away in case we didnt get on. I said it just shows that the whole 6 weeks he was back, he was not giving it everything as he was texting her all day every day and emailing her with "motivational" emails and I didnt know at the time. I was extremely stressed with work in January and he didnt motivate me did he?!

I am angry. I have let the solicitor put it in the petition and to name her as I do feel it is the main reason for the breakdown of our marriage. He may have been unhappy but he showed no sign of leaving until he was in so much contact with her.

100 texts to her in one day?

Ok I know you have a new resolve. That is fantastic.

Please see that you 'trying to make him understand these texts were inappropriate' is so so demeaning. Fuck that. He knows that. He doesn't care. You have been in the position of pleading with him to acknowledge that he might have done something wrong!!

If you had to say anything at all on the matter it should have been 'You duplicitous piece of shit - how fucking DARE you blame any shit on me at all when you have been carrying on with X'.

And kept that up, never wavered - BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH. Who actually cares if they have shagged (they have) - thousands of texts/late night emails constitutes an infidelity and a betrayal. STAY ANGRY.

You mention that at the end of your last serious relationship you found it hard to let go, got treated badly etc. From your posts, as others say, you seem to find it hard to do things to protect yourself, eg persisting in trying to win him back, even in the face of everything DH has said and done, keeping in frequent contact with them both etc. It'd be good to work on this stuff, eg self-esteem, your models for relationships etc.

Sorry the coming week or so will be difficult. Just keep going, have a nice time with DD if you can. please do not respond or get hopeful if he gets in touch in a nostalgic way!

Fuck his birthday and the jubilee! (feminist and republican).

How're things with DD? Do you have most of the childcare now, without much break? Are you finding it easier to manage her behaviour, or is it harder? If you can't hold it together in front of her, must be v hard, do emphasise to your GP that you need some help, and explain things to her as best you can.

Re work, just do your best, it's surprising how much you can get away with re performance, as long as you turn up! (am currently just about getting by / cutting corners at work myself). You are doing well to do everything that you're doing.

If they get upset about your naming her, stand by to not respond! If pressed by DH in person, eg at DD pick up, simply say that you are acting upon legal advice. He will probably give your further bullshit about your lack of trust, this is why he cab't be with you, blah blah, remember, it's bollocks!

I think that's a bit of key, that you actively chose to ignore what's right in front of your face.

None of those things you listed are reasons why he couldn't be having an affair. In fact in the twisted world of betrayal they are reasons as to exactly why they are having an affair. People who do this sort of stuff to their friends and partners behave in a very perverse way indeed. They've made up their own set of rules where things like marriage and friendship count for nothing in the pursuit of their own desires and satisfaction.

Skye it is not about you hating him.

It is about getting yourself to a stage where he is unimportant. Moving from loving to hating him gains you nothing. It is still strong emotion aim right at him. Aimed at someone who will just raise his eyes, shrug and thinks 'here she goes again'.

The same with her being named on the petition. Do it as it is part of the reason you are now divorcing and should be shown. Stop and think though what does this gain you? He is not going to turn around an apologise, nor is she, it is just a case of 'you can't get passed that' and making you look like the wrong one yet again.

All we are saying is to stop engaging with him. Everytime you do this you are not starting the healing process. You are trying to engage him, to make him admit he is wrong anything. You raise your hopes to have them dashed at to hurt even more.

If you can go a week without contacting him. That is a week you can process all the pain and hurt and just deal with it a tiny little bit. If you go a second week that is a tiny bit further.

But what if next time you "think you should" reply to an email or text or. "because your mum thinks you should"?! I'm not convinced you can stop yourself! I'm also not convinced you really want to disengage. Until you do you cannot move on.

skye, the next time he contacts you with some piece of shit headfuckery do not reply whether you think you "ought to" or not

take our advice, love

Yes, come here first and talk about it. Then you can decide what to do.

well I have been to the doctor and she was very good, I have been going to her for years. She said exactly the same thing as every other person has said when I told her he had gone "but you two were such a solid couple" "he is the last person in the world that I would have thought would have done this" . She said that they turn the blame back on to you as a way of stopping their own guilt. She said that it sounds like he needs some sort of help to deal with his issues, but if he doesnt seek it, nobody can make him.

She suggested that I should have Relate counselling on my own, to talk it all through and stop feeling guilty that I have caused this. She said that it will help me to realise that there is nothing I could have done to stop him leaving.

She has given me Citalopram a mild 10 dose, just to help with the anxiety, but said to take 1 a day for a fortnight, then if I am tolerating it ok, up it to 2 a day. She wants to see me again in 2 weeks for another chat and to make sure that I am ok and will give me more tablets if they are helping.

I just have to try and get a grip and get through the next couple of weeks while the tablets start to work.

She sounds a really good GP (no doubt been on the receiving end of twuntery herself)!

Oh Skye, I'm so sorry for all you're going through

You keep saying you need to get a grip - but I want you to know that's not what posters have been saying on here.

We're not saying 'pull yourself together' or 'you should be over this by now'. What we've all advised you to do is simply open your eyes to OW and the fact there was nothing you could do to stop him leaving - and to stop contacting them.

I am so glad you saw your very sympathetic and sensible sounding doctor and got some meds to help you through this dreadful time.

(Please please disregard the stuff about him seeking help - don't use that as something to cling on. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. That is his problem now. And counselling is not going to make him come back).

skye i'm relieved the GP prescribed some citalopram for you. barring side effects (like any drug, sometimes it doesn't work as well for one person as for the next) it should really help you get through this dreadful time.

you've done well.

and yes, disregard any thought of what H needs to do. it's not your issue, you can't help him. you can lead a horse to water and all that.

the lady just rang from the childrens centre about the counselling so its all happening this week.... I should get an appointment in the next couple of weeks hopefully if they have a space and its all free and they say about 8 sessions , maybe more, maybe less depending on how I get on.

I have just got dressed up to go out with my friends for a drink. I live in a small town, 2 pubs! so hardly a wild night out, but its a start. I am sure that I will end up in the corner crying at some point, but we will see. my daughter is at my mum's for the night, so I should be able to have a lie in as well.

Trying to stay positive. I really want to ring my BIL but have fought it and not done it! My friend is going to take my phone home at the end of the night so that I dont text H in a drunken state later.

I like the sound of your gp.

Have fun tonight!

Can you not leave your phone at home completely and give your mum your friend's number in case of dd emergency? If you do end up in tears (which is fine! and normal!) you may call him.

I hope you have had a good evening and perhaps even enjoyed yourself

I have enjoyed myself tonight, went out with 4 friends and had a good laugh. Got pissed off when looked at Facebook on my phone , there's a picture of him and his mate and her friend posted by her saying x's birthday celebrations showing them all happy in a restaurant having a drink. They are practically his only friends on Facebook now so I cant help but think its aimed at hurting me coz who else is going to see it?

I posted a pic of me looking great, that's how I noticed their pic.

I so want to text him and tell him what a bastard he is but I'm not going to.

Why are you looking at his Facebook page?

Don't text him. Good for you for stopping yourself.

For the last bloody time - Unfriend & block them!!!

You said earlier in the week that he'd deactivated his account when you posted about dd not being able to sleep. Assuming he hadn't, you need to block him. That will prevent you from seeing any friend activity relating to those members of his family that you - understandably - want to remain in contact with on FB and from wondering if they're posting pics of themselves solely to get at you. Maybe they are, who knows. Who cares. The pair of them have behaved in a thoroughly disgraceful way throughout, whether or not they're actually sleeping together.

Well done, though, on not texting and on having a bloody good night out.

Tbf, skye says 'posted by her' rather than him - who do you mean by her, Skye? The OW or a different mutual friend? If the OW then obviously you should de-friend her!

Glad you had a good night. And that the GP was helpful and counselling has been arranged so promptly.

De-friend them on facebook! Come on, you know you need to, for your own well-being.

Good point mrspepperpotty, it does say 'by her' but then says they're practically his only friends on FB. In any case, yes, de-friend the 'friend' or at the very least hide her.

Yes the pic was posted by the wife of her friend her H and my H dat smiling in this restaurant and it just came up on the feed. He has reactivated his Facebook account again. He is addicted to it, I knew it wouldn't last long. I am still friends with all of them on Facebook, just can't bring myself to block them but I know I need to so that stuff like this can't hurt me.

I was very restrained last night and stopped myself posting abuse on Facebook or texting him.

Just off to the hairdressers now to get my highlights done then to my mums for dinner

Not responding is a victory. Make sure you realise that.

All this stuff is bait to get a reaction from you. If you rise above it, whilst continuing to protect your own interests, you win.

Thanks. I just hope he gets the solicitors letter today to see in black and white that divorce is on its way. Happy fucking birthday to him!

That's the spirit Skye!

And great you having your hair done <shallow but unapologetic emoticon>

It's either terribly cruel or terribly thoughtless for them to post happy snaps of your dh on FB knowing you will see them.

I loathe Facebook anyway and don't get the point of sharing all one's dull pictures and news with dozens of old acquaintances who don't give a shit about you...so I am biaised...but I'd just sack off FB altogether.

A solicitor's letter on his doormat in response to this latest crap would just be fantastic.

Now this has happened the other woman is very likely to get in touch with you again with more manipulation. He's using her as a means of communication with her, whilst she wants to keep you under control. What will you say to her?

"a means of communication with you"

Do I need to say it again?!

She will say nothing NYAC, right Skye?

Nothing.

Nothing.

Nothing.

Do not respond.

Do not explain.

Do not retaliate.

Do not be 'tricked' into replying because it's 'important'.

Nothing's important except contact with daughter which you have sorted for this week yes?

This man has been telling you since February your marriage is over. You are not as far along as him in detaching and still hurting.

However if he wants to go out to a restaurant as a foursome with a couple and another woman that is entirely his choice. It is none of your business.

The only concern that you can have is if he is paying for all this swanning about having fun while refusing to give you money for your DD because you asked for his key back because he is supposed to be skint.

These people have made it totally obvious they are his friends not yours. He has treated you like fucking crap and they are still putting him up and doing fun things with him. What have they (read her) done with you apart from shit stir over the last few months??

Delete and block them from FB and move on for your own well being.

Well, i have had the paperwork from the solicitor today. A copy of the letter that has gone to him advising that he needs to get a solicitor as I will be filing a petition for unreasonable behaviour.

Four reasons are listed and her name is in 3 of them, with reference to dates of communication, 1.5 hour phone call, number of texts, through our holiday etc, and over 100 texts a day in the week leading up to when he left. the fourth reason given is the fact that he wrote the letter saying that he had no feelings for me any more and unreasonably accused me of walking all over him.

He wont like what it says, but if they contact me, I will not reply. or maybe just 2 words? Starts with F and ends in Off? It says that if he defends it then we will go for him to pay my costs. Seeing as he has no money I am hopeful that he will just accept it. Mediation over the house will be the difficult bit, but I suppose if he turns on me, then we will just have to fight it out through the solicitors.

It made me cry to see it all in black and white, the end of my marriage. I am so so upset that it has come to this. If he had never given her that first lift, it would have never come to this, as they didnt have the contact before then. He has only become close to her since January/February. We have some lovely pictures on facebook of family days out and holidays where he is genuinely happy and smiling and enjoying himself. Only 12 months ago, and 6 months ago he was happy. He wasnt unhappy for years, I know that really. Its just his way of being able to walk out, to blame it all on me, so he had no choice but to leave. It all started with him being ill, me being stressed, and he turned to her instead of to me. He never gave us a chance, I never stood a chance of fixing it coz I didnt know it was broken.

I am just so so so heartbroken that I have to do this as its the last thing in the world that I want to do,

So sorry Skye. This must be so hard. You're a very brave woman.

Not even two words, not even those two carefully chosen ones. Really not.

please please please say nothing.don't text, no email, no messages no contct at all with 'him' or 'his friends' including that dreadful woman.

the whole " he says xxxx" is just winding you up. You are adults, he could speak to you if he had any interest at all in saving your marriage. He doesnt because he has moved on.

It hurts like hell I know, but he is not interested in you... please keep you dignity now.Play your cards close to your chest. Confide in YOUR friends and family only.

Put the financials on a legal footing asap. please do this. I will 'pay you when I can is not a way YOU can survive. He has responsibilites. You can ensure he meets them.

take good care of youself , and your daughter. Try to get pick ups /drop offs done by a third party. Right now it would be better if you dont see him AT ALL. honestly, I know it feels too hard to contemplate right now, but it will protect and help you if you DO NOT SEE HIM.

Skye, I'm going to keep saying this: it was not your job to fix your marriage. It was not a question of if he had told you, you could have fixed it. He could have stayed, he could have fixed it.

And I'm sorry but I don't believe it all would have been fine if only he hadn't met her, or if only he hadn't been ill. He chose to do this. Fine - an opportunity was presented to him but he deliberately and knowingly chose to do this, because he wanted to. Not because of illness, but because he is selfish and he walks away whenever things get tough. He's done it repeatedly, and he will do it again.

You have no choice. He has made the decision to end the marriage but you can take control by doing the official legal stuff & refusing to engage with him, ow or her friends & family. Rise above it love.

well, I have had a very difficult day today, spent a lot of it in tears. I sat in my mum's garden talking to her and crying. I still feel like its all a bad dream and I'm going to wake up from it at some point....

My mum recalls him being odd in February, quieter than usual, impatient with our daughter, pushing her away. Of course, this is all around the time that he started contacting her.

I am starting to accept more and more that this was not my fault. That there was nothing I could have done to stop it. I have written a long letter to HER H, but will not be sending it for the moment. I dont want to jeapordise the settlement over the house etc.

The letter goes along the lines of : -

Dear XX, I know that you are aware that H and your W have been texting each other all day every day, as they both tell me that you know. In fact your W said that you are usually there when she texts him. Although, seeing as you both work in different places and my H is texting her from 8am onwards, right through the day up to bedtime, I don't suppose you are always there..... They both said that you are aware that my H is texting her over 1500 times in a month, over 100 times a day sometimes.

I apologise for your W being named in my divorce petition, I am sure that they have both told you of this. but it was on my solicitors advice. Did you know that they also have cosy chats on facebook? I attach a copy of one of them, which actually says at the end, go back to text , you are coming. My H kindly sent her motivational emails too. She said that my H was able to provide the emotional support to her that you were unable to.

Do you remember the day that you went to work with my H and had to hold his phone as he forgot his handsfree kit? He didnt text her once that day, I wonder why? My H became a lot more guarded with his phone before he left, has your W become more guarded with hers? My H deleted all his texts, has W deleted hers? and My H spent hours talking about you two and her and all her problems.

I FEEL MUCH BETTER for writing all the above down, the letter actually says a lot more, but the above gives you the main points. I can not send it now, but I feel better for writing it all down......

It can be very good to write an 'anger letter' and then not send it. Hopefully it's helped you to get some of it out.

I hadn't really thought before about what the other husband will make of his DW being named on a divorce petition. Not remotely your problem but Jesus, that'd have to be some kind of conversation. I think when you do feel ready to talk to him (definitely not yet) it would be reasonable to say you're sorry you had to hurt him by naming her on the petition but you had no option, given the inappropriateness of her behaviour. I think at some point soon the poor sap is going to learn the extent of it, but the best thing you can do right now is keep your distance and not try to involve yourself in her marriage the way she has in yours, constantly.

Keep on keeping on - is your ex due a contact visit tomorrow?

yes, we agreed on every sunday pick up at 10am, drop off at 7pm. so he doesnt need to contact me about it, its a set thing. in the week is trickier as he can only see her if not working, so then he does have to contact me.

His W wont get a copy of it as its not adultery - as no evidence - but she is named on the petition. I wonder if my H will tell her or her H? If I get abusive texts from her, then I will guess that they havent told her H.... she made contact with me the first time, after I confronted my H about it, then she sent me a facebook message telling me that I was wrong and her H knew all about it.

Im going to sign the petition and get it back to the solicitor asap, so hopefully my H will get it asap. Im not sure how it works, does anyone know? Does my solicitor send it to him, or to the court and they send it to him? Not sure how soon he would get it?

I do have a bad feeling about it in one way. I really feel like its going to hit the fan when my H gets the petition....

I like the letter to her husband.

Your sol sends to court, court sends it to him, he has 14 days to acknowledge receipt to the court. Keep on keeping on...

I just counted a few days texts for my solicitor and in the week before he left he was texting her 100 times a day.

I so want to tell her h now but really don't want to piss my h off in case he gets arsy over the house and what's due to me...,

He should not be living in their house ..... But I dont know if Ive got it in me to hurt her h like it, plus could end up pushing my h and his w together if they both get chucked out..... But her h deserves to not be made a fool out of ...

About posting the letter to other H after divorce, could you be sure that ow doesn't open his mail? If you go through with sending it maybe send a copy to his email/work to make sure he sees it.

skye
Your new motto is "detach, detach, detach!" Every time you think about contacting ANYONE in this sorry mess, repeat that motto ten times, or more until the feeling goes away!

Of course you're hurt, of course you want vengeance, but honestly the best way you can 'get at' your H or the OW now is to show them that they're not worth any more than shit on your shoe, and you don't care WHAT they're doing as they are no longer important to your life.

DETACH! DETACH! DETACH!

Skye - sorry you had a crap day. It must be utterly overwhelming at times.

Re the letter, it's great, but errs on the side of slightly snide in places such as h 'kindly' giving her motivational support, and might come across as vengeful. I'd be direct and honest.

I think it sounds a bit like you are shirking responsibility or don't stand by the decision when you say 'but my solicitor' advised to cite OW on the petition. I'd leave that out. Or say 'my solicitor stated it was hugely relevant to the petition and should be on there' or something.

I'd also make it clear you are not sorry she was cited but sorry for his potential hurt.

x

Sorry you had a bad day and hope today is a better one, although may be unlikely if he's received his papers!

I don't think you should send a letter to her husband. His marriage is his problem, you have enough on your plate right now, and would be grist to the mill of "she's being jealous" rubbish.

If the husband, who will surely hear about the divorce papers, wants information from you, he knows how to get in touch and you can share the evidence etc in a factual way. Agree with the poster who said you shouldn't apologise about naming her in the papers and simply state that this was on legal advice due to their inappropriate behaviour (in your eyes and those of the SOL). How he regards their behaviour is up to him. You have nothing to apologise to him for, this is their doing.

You make sense Dozer. I was trying to be supportive re sending the letter but I'm afraid it will backfire and make her look vengeful.

However, the husband may well not hear his wife's name on it. Why would either tell him?

And I'm on fence whether it's cruel or kind to tell him the truth - if he is truly in the dark then maybe he deserves to know how he is being played by the two people he trusts most in the world.

Don't send the letter. It's just a way of continuing to engage with them all.

One thing I learned during the painful process of my own divorce (and the ongoing settlement negotiation) Whatever idea I had that I thought was good, no matter how much I wanted to act on it immediately, I didn't. I made myself say Not Yet, Pink.

Some of those things I went on to do after much further thinking, others I binned after further thinking, or because the situation had developed.

So: Not Yet Skye (if ever)

He will be here any minute to get daughter for the day and its his 48th birthday today. I've written out a birthday card for her to give him, it's very basic Happy Birthday Dad, no wonderful Daddy stuff in it as he doesn't deserve that. She hasn't mentioned a present so I've decided not to give him the chocs (the ones he gave me for my 40th). I can't bring bring myself to give him anything.

I've got another day of working at home ahead of me, have got so much to do but struggle to motivate myself to do it but I need to or I'm going to start losing clients.... And I need the money more than ever now.

I agree I can't send the letter to her H yet if ever. I really want to but I think it needs to be face to face so I can be certain that he gets it and that he sees all the evidence. Like you say she may open his post.

just sokmething to think about. The pre divorce settlement in regards to contact and finances isnt actually legally binding (as I discovered when I had to take my ex to court later on)
The idea of it is that you can sort things out between you in a way which you are both happy with, without taking up the courts time in having to do it for you BUT if he decides not to do what is agreed (so, if he gets pissed off at any time and decides not to pay you/see DD/ mess around with contact) you will need to go back to the court to get it sanctioned legally.
I would be concerned with his attitude that he will say one thing, but as soon as ou rock the boat in any way, he will hold this over you. I would rather go straight to CSA for maintanance and ask solicitors advice about the house.

He should not be living in their house ..... But I dont know if Ive got it in me to hurt her h like it, plus could end up pushing my h and his w together if they both get chucked out..... Skye you really do need to detach and accept this is none of your business now. It hurt like hell I know. Your H can live where he wants and if they do get together the only concern you have in this is how your DD is affected.

Open the door, hand over your DD and her stuff, don't engage with him at all.

Work hard today, you can do it, and cash is good!

(my current mantra)

well, after he took daughter today, I took my first anti D tablet. Im sure it was just coincidence as they are non sedative, but about an hour later I felt really tired. I had a bad night with daughter not going to sleep until gone 9pm crying and then waking up at 3am being completely hysterical and kicking and screaming and nothing I could do would settle her, she was kicking me and hurting me. I went back to my bed and she then came in with me and fell fast asleep, but it really upset me.

I went back to bed for 3 hours, then got up still feeling crap and have tried to do a little bit of work. My mum rang so I had a chat with her for an hour too. She likes to make sure that Im ok when Im on my own. I cried a lot again too.

I just really cant get past the fact the this is my life now and is never going to change. Maybe I will start to feel differently in a couple of weeks, once the anti D's kick in, but I feel so sad and desperate. I want to shout at him, to send him abuse saying look what you have done to us you bastard, look what you are doing to your child! I know I cant and I wont, but its how I feel. I have told him about the issues that daughter is having with sleep etc, but he doesnt seem to give a damn. He is just a cold hard stranger now, who thinks he can still be a great dad by seeing her twice a week if he can manage it...

Oh skye [hugs], it will get better. You haven't said the word in your post, but what you are feeling is anger (as well as sadness and desperation). This is a right and proper feeling atm.

Glad you got some rest - sleep helps make things seem more bearable.

I think you should concentrate on seeing the future as a mystery - you have no idea what will happen in the future so it's not true to say it's 'never going to change'.

There is hurt to heal right now and when that starts happening, things will change. There is a new life to build and when that starts happening, things will change. And there is the belief in new love to create and when that belief starts happening, things will change.

This is the worst part as huge chunks of your old life and routine are gone and you haven't found your ways to cope and replace them yet. But it's always darkest before the dawn. Remember that.

dont 'say' anything to him.

take care of yourself.. Of course you are tired with disrupted sleep. book yourself a manicure/pedicure/massage. send DD to friends as much as possible, read trashy books, watch what you want on TV, Treat yourself as an invalid, damaged, and in need of care and love. This is the reality.... please prioritise your care for yourself. DD will be ok if YOU are ok, she needs you...

lean on you mum, and your friends ( NOT his or his family) make a haven for yourself with a big wall around it that he - who is the cause of your pain - cannot enter.

right now WY you marriage is over doesn't really matter; accepting this, and taking care of yourself, is what does matter.

big hugs x

How are you today?

well I went to work this morning, got stuck in and then my BIL rang me...... I have been forcing myself not to ring him, then he rings me! He wanted to know how I was getting on and how my daughter was.

He did have some interesting things to say though, he said that my H and the W told her H that they had been texting, they said they didnt realise how much and that there was nothing in it. Now her H has accused her of throwing herself at my H and flirting with him and has had a right go at her about the texting. and also he has been coming home at random times etc, hoping to catch them obviously. My H told his brother this. He seems to trust my H, but not his own W, which is fair enough as she cheated on her first husband with him...... So it looks like her H is now suspicious, so I really dont need to say anything.... at the moment......

BIL also said that my H is varying, saying one day, Im happy here now, then the next day he says "I should be at home with my family". He varies day to day. He sits there saying "Im 48 now and Ive got nothing to show for it, no family, no home, nothing" BIL said it really seems to be getting to him now. I told BIL that he is adamant to me that its over, this is why I am divorcing him as I have no choice. BIL said that H is hurt by the divorce and doesnt see why we need to do it, but BIL said that H would probably never get around to it. BIL said that if H changes his mind at any point, then he needs to come back grovelling to me. He said it is now ramming it home to him, making it real, that this is what is happening!!

I said yes, my days of asking him to come back are over. I am not bluffing with this, I am actually doing it because it is all I can do now. I am moving on, divorcing him and thats that. I said that I am in a different mindset now. If he came grovelling back we could talk, but it doesnt automatically mean that I want him back any more.

I know you all said dont speak to the family etc, but I do feel better for this conversation as I now know that her H knows something is up. A couple of weeks ago I would have taken BIL's words that husband is still confused as hope that he will be back, but today I just think, well you have had plenty of time to sort yourself out, I cant wait forever, this changes nothing.

Hi Skye

I think it was fine to talk to BIL as he called you.

Oh my fucking God at your stbxh!!

Is he not the most whiney, self-absorbed arse ever?

The fact that he is still acting like you are wronging him by the divorce speaks volumes.

And the 'poor me what have I got to show for my life' shit, Jesus! How about a wonderful daughter and a wife who loved you ?

I didn't realise the wife had affair in her first marriage - this makes me 100% certain they are having an affair as opposed to 99% certain. And the fact your h is saying the husband is suspicious...well.

So did he mention her being cited in the petition to BIL?

Hope you are ok

Yes stay strong honey, he's just trying to get the sympathy vote from brother I reckon. Good news about ow's DH!!! See karma has its way! Would you really take him back after all he's done?!!!!!!

You are still getting 3rd party reports and this is still getting your hopes up BIL is telling your H that if H changes his mind at any point, then he needs to come back grovelling to me. He said it is now ramming it home to him, making it real, that this is what is happening!! It raises they hope that your H may still change his mind

It is fine to talk to your BIL however I think as soon as he brings up your H you have to cut him off and not discuss it. You really don't need to be hearing any of this. Please stop talking about him with anyone. He just comes back the next day and crushes you again and again.

They have clearly told her H about the texting because they had to. They could not rely on your keeping quiet, you have told your ex about the divorce papers coming and so went in for a pre-emptive strike.

Also please don't forget the information he is passing to your BIL is likely to be as true as the conflicting stories you have been getting from him/her eg him not paying you because he is skint or because he is punishing you for asking for the key back.

If I thought my wife was getting involved with my best friend I wouldn't be coming home hoping to catch them I would be asking the lodger to leave.

I also would not be out having cosy 4somes with them at the weekend...

I agree - no good can come of discussing the details with your BIL. God knows what line of crap your ex is feeding to his brother, once again he appears to be saying one thing to someone else and one thing to you. You honestly need to steer the conversation away from the topic of your ex; getting all this second-hand info isn't helping you.

The news about her H getting suspicious is amusing gossip but that's all. I sincerely hope he does find out what she's been up to. But it's far more important right now for you to detach yourself from the horrible mess your DH has made of his life. It is not your problem.

I find his comment that he now has no family utterly disgraceful. Even by his standards.

i totally agree with I find his comment that he now has no family utterly disgraceful.

He has a daughter. To say he has no family is nasty.

I've been thinking about you today op (I've only posted once but have been lurking for a while trying to think of comforting posts but couldn't put my anger towards your h & w into decent words), you sound so much stronger today, keep it up and remember you're not alone, you've got mumsnet behind you!