Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.

sod the elephant, looks like its really over.......

(992 Posts)
skyebluesapphire Fri 11-May-12 02:41:01

So, after our great date on Saturday and lovely day on Sunday, tonight he emails me his letter which basically details how unhappy he was, how long he had been unhappy, all the things that made him unhappy.

skyebluesapphire Fri 11-May-12 02:42:42

He says that I was so stressed out it was impossible to talk to me and I took it out on him and my daughter. He says that when he was ill I didnt care (I was ill myself at the same time). He felt that he was doing most of the housework and I didnt appreciate it. I spent too much time on facebook and tv (he was on the computer every night). I was too controlling because I organised our entire lives and we were always busy.

Now that he is on his own he is happy making his own decisions, does not feel pressured, he likes living in town with everything in easy reach. I never supported him in his work.

He enjoyed the date last week, but still feels no desire to come back at present. He said that since the date I put too much pressure on him and have got my hopes right up again and he accepts the blame for that for giving me mixed signals and false hope..

I telephoned him after getting the email and I asked him where this left us, is he saying its over or what, as we were supposed to be going out on Saturday. He said maybe leave it a couple of weeks, so I pushed him and said but do you want to do this, honestly, do you think it will make a difference and he said no.

So I guess that is the end of my marriage then. I said if thats what you are saying then divorce is the only route now and he said I dont want to get divorced, its only a bit of paper. I said no it isnt, its the closure I need to be able to move on and hopefully find somebody else in the future.... I said did he want to start it or me and he said its up to you. So looks like I'll be taking control of that one then..... I told him that we need a more formal footing for access now, he wont be able to come in the house any more and put her to bed etc.

I wrote him a long email back, addressing all the points in his letter and also laying blame on him, which I didnt do in my first letter.

I am so gutted that my marriage is over, but he is being very selfish and cowardly.

skyebluesapphire Fri 11-May-12 02:45:55

I was going to start a new thread, but old one still going now, so please post on that one, thanks.....

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 11-May-12 07:27:48

Dumped by e-mail? "It's not me, it's you" eh? Stick the boot in that it's 'all your fault'? Get yourself a good lawyer and good luck with the divorce.

QueenieLovesEels Fri 11-May-12 07:37:49

He is an arsewipe. Get yourself a solicitor as a matter of urgency and keep your finances protected.

I still think that there is more news to come on the text woman front.

Prepare yourself.

SirSugar Fri 11-May-12 07:46:31

Stop pulling the wool over your own eyes; get angry and lawyer up.

Its not ' I guess the marriage is over', take control and your dignity and end it yourself. you will feel much better when you are in the driving seat instead of waiting around letting him write his stupid letters and going on silly dates.

Personally I'd be fucking furious that he sent some letter detailing my failings as a wife, who the hell does he think he is? He is either stupid/deluded or thinks you are stupid enough to not see through his facade of 'I am not having an affair with that woman'.

SirSugar Fri 11-May-12 07:48:40

Keep 'pushing' him, yeah do that - until he falls off a cliff

SirSugar Fri 11-May-12 07:50:27

AND keep putting the pressure on - direct it at his wallet and squeeze and squeeze.

crestico Fri 11-May-12 07:59:36

i'll be different then:
don't waste your energy being angry and spiteful - any gratification you get in the short term will only make you regret it going forward and you really don't want to be in a position of fighting over kids and such. keep it amicable if you can, or just cut him off as soon as possible. either way, it's much much better for your kid(s) - because they will be affected by all of the negativity if you let it go down that road

grieve for the end of your marriage and get the wheels in motion for the divorce. most importantly : protect your finances.

i really hope you keep your cool and come through this stronger. we're here to support!

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 11-May-12 08:23:30

I don't think being angry is a waste of energy. The OP has spent so long desperately hoping that things could improve, ignoring her own feelings and pandering to his 'insecurities' that I think a good old blow-out is actually required. She should have got angry when he first walked out but, instead, she stayed conciliatory ... and all it achieved was to have contempt and resentment heaped on her head in spades.

'Amicable' is how friends treat each other. Whatever else this man is, he is not her friend. Your children do not need to be shielded a minute longer. Be negative OP... I think you've earned the right.

crestico Fri 11-May-12 08:43:58

"I don't think being angry is a waste of energy"

how will being angry achieve anything? or at least anything she wanted (reconciliation). it is a waste of energy. it's better to just let go, grieve, and move on with her life.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 11-May-12 08:51:09

Being angry will achieve a lot. It will kick-start her out of the will-he-won't-he torpor that has put her life on hold since he walked out. It will get her out of doormat mode. It will focus her mind and give her the energy to get going with the divorce. It will enable her to see her ex for who he really is and stop making excuses on his behalf.

Suppressing her anger, denying her feelings, has achieved nothing but contempt. She needs to yell.... not repress and keep an unnatural calm. Then she can let go and move on and be much healthier mentally.

dondon33 Fri 11-May-12 10:59:37

Whether you get angry or not you need to take control now Skye. Start the ball rolling and see a solicitor, why doesn't he want a divorce? selfish reasons - maybe he thinks he can come back to you at some point if he leaves the door open, financial reasons- divorces are expensive and will hit him in the pocket. He can't really use the excuse that's just a piece of paper WTF?

How very noble of him to accept the blame for giving you false hope :@ what a guy, what about shouldering some responsibility for what's happened in your marriage, 2 of you are in it and it takes 2 to make it work.

I haven't read your other post but from what I can gather there is possibly OW involved. Which could go a little way to explain the way he wrote to you -blaming you, convincing himself that his marriage was shite and he had reason to cheat/look elsewhere. arsehole

Stay strong Skye, you have tried to fix it but he obviously doesn't want to. Move forward, he deserves no more of your time. Good luck xx

kittycatwoman Fri 11-May-12 11:13:04

What sirsugar said. Squeeze the selfish bastard for every penny he has got. Cheeky fekcer.

crestico Fri 11-May-12 11:15:50

look, i know everyone comes here because thye're hurting, or need help... but i am getting sick and tired of all these posts which advocate revenge and anger and lashing out.

being upset and being angry are different things and you shouldn't ever be angry as an outlet for your hurt. a lot of very stupid vindictive spiteful and ultimately regretable things have been said and done in anger - and you can't always take them back. it's the main reason why most of us are here.

think of the children. do they want to see you (or do you want them to see you) screaming at and waging war against their (possibly crappy?) father, or do you want to show them how to act maturely and responsibly when life hands you a steaming bag, show them that anger/violence/hate isn't acceptable - whilst being strong and assertive - and allow them to form their own relationships with him over time if that's something they (as individuals) want, whilst not being influenced by you and your actions/reactions to him post-breakup (which are always extremely heated and sad affairs and always affect children deeply).

be upset. be hurt. grieve for your relationship... but don't use it as an excuse to be angry and lash out - that's just not nice, and sends your children a very strong message about who you are and what they can be and do when they grow up. don't let a broken relationship mean a broken home. you may not agree with it, but if he's made his decision, all you can do is make your own way through this with as much poise and dignaty as possible.

good luck moving on OP, I really hope that throughout all of this crap, something good might (one day) come from this. we are here to help

Mumsyblouse Fri 11-May-12 11:28:47

I think actually the OP will be relatively dignified about it. She waited patiently for his letter which proved he was as crap as we suspected and hasn't been, from my impression anyway, slagging him off. She may well wish to be angry with him in private, though, he needs a few home truths being told, and there's no reason for her not to be frank, angry or upset in front of him. But that's a different thing than lashing out at him or through her daughter and she sounds too sensible for that to me. I think the fact that she immediately saw the lie of the land once she'd seen the letter in black and white, and is prepared to intiate the divorce and formalise contact is actually a good thing.

PooPooInMyToes Fri 11-May-12 13:17:07

sad

You're sounding strong op.

ThePinkPussycat Fri 11-May-12 13:42:02

Feeling your own anger does not necessarily equate to shouting and lashing out. It doesn't need to manifest in that way. Feeling oppressed and miserable often does - I speak from experience.

Harnessing the energy that anger brings can give you the strength to do what you have to do, including a divorce that, while amicable might not be the right word, is focussed on the facts and achieving the best you can for yourself and DC.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 11-May-12 13:43:00

" it's the main reason why most of us are here"

The main reason why so many women are here is that they've been conditioned by a male dominated relationship in a male dominated society to be meek and mild... conciliatory and palliative. They are told that a 'good woman' takes the other person's bad behaviour on the chin, calmly, maturely, rationally. They are conditioned to believe that angry women are somehow freakish and a threat. The frustration this self-imposed inability to express rage causes leads to thousands of women being prescribed ADs and other tranqulising drugs to make it through the day rather than tackling the cause of the frustration head on. I'm not advocating taking revenge, screaming, lashing out or waging war necessarily .... but getting angry at being treated like a piece of dirt is a totally valid emotion. If more women gave themselves permission to be angry there would be far fewer opportunites for bullies and emotional abusers to take advantage of instituionalised meek and mildness.

SigmundFraude Fri 11-May-12 13:50:56

'AND keep putting the pressure on - direct it at his wallet and squeeze and squeeze.'

'What sirsugar said. Squeeze the selfish bastard for every penny he has got. Cheeky fekcer.'

And this is why I'm so glad I'm not a man. Lovely.

midwife99 Fri 11-May-12 15:07:09

Getting angry is healthy. I don't mean screaming & shouting in front of DC etc. I mean the sort of anger that gives you the energy to stop the twunt taking advantage anymore & to get strong. Good luck OP.

janelikesjam Fri 11-May-12 17:25:54

The main reason why so many women are here is that they've been conditioned by a male dominated relationship in a male dominated society to be meek and mild... conciliatory and palliative.

I agree with this. I think this meekness and mildness causes lots of problems (in the short run and the long run). There is nothing inherently wrong with being angry at being treated like rubbish; it prevents it happening again for one thing. One other issue, probably not relevant on this post though, is when its "built up" from not asserting oneself in smaller ways. Here it can build up to where it can be explosive (outwardly) or internally.

So, OP, I'm not advocating anything myself (I don't know the background to this on previous thread, etc). I do think finishing by email is a a pretty cowardly thing to do. I do think ending by email is pretty shock.

Wish you really well in going forward.

thrillahkillah Fri 11-May-12 17:30:36

divorce is just a piece of paper??? did he think marriage was just a piece of paper too?

twunt.

of course, he'll be saying all this because
a) he wants to avoid any kind of confrontation/signing papers/talking to solicitor/expense and
b) he wants everything to be informal, so he can exert maximum manipulation and just bully you into the kind of access/spousal support/settlement that HE wants

i'm sorry this happened to you & i hope you can get (and stay) angry enough to assert your rights in this situation.

it sounds like you're already on track. good luck to you, you'll find support here x

Xales Fri 11-May-12 17:37:24

I am so sorry skye.

It is pretty nasty to spend time holding hands on the beach and cuddling up to just dump on them like this.

Please remember from now on moving forwards this man is not your friend. Right now you cannot trust him to do the right or decent thing by you. Get yourself to a solicitor and find out where you stand and what you can do. Get yourself to the CAB and find out what financial help etc you are entitled to.

Maybe in the future you can be friends but for now you need to concentrate on yourself and your DD.

You are incredibly strong. Despite what everyone was saying on your other threads you did what you thought was the right thing. You can hold your head high and look in the mirror.

Do what is right for you and DD. I hope you have a good life.

Secrecy Fri 11-May-12 17:39:42

I'm so sorry to hear this, sky. You tried. You can hold your head up high and say you tried, and now it's time to move on.

HandMadeTail Fri 11-May-12 17:47:25

I'm always sorry to hear about marriages ending. But unfortunately, you tried to keep it going, and he didn't. It takes two to make a marriage work, and it seems like you did everything you could to change, and he did nothing.

(I followed your other threads, by the way.)

Be angry (not shouty) if that's what it takes to get the divorce and move on.

Well done you, for being so strong.

SirSugar Fri 11-May-12 18:59:36

Sigmunde, I totally advocate squeezing his wallet as he has a child to support in his absense whether he likes it or not. And I would suggest it if it was a DW who'd left a SAHD

Dozer Fri 11-May-12 21:31:49

Sapphire, please do now seek legal advice and check the financial situation, eg to make sure you won't be liable if he gets into debt again.

You and DD will be so much better off without living with him, everything you have said about him has revealed him to be selfish, angry, absorbed in his own drama, and generally not a good person to be married to.

And this is not your fault, he is the one who has let you and DD down.

skyebluesapphire Fri 11-May-12 21:57:42

I had a good chat with the friends wife earlier, she is livid with him for treating me like this. He told her that he had a really good time on the date and felt 100 times better about everything. She asked him tonight why the u-turn and he said no u-turn , he always felt like this. He told them this morning that he wrote me an honest letter and because of that I asked for a divorce. So I put her straight and said no, he said it was over, so I said you do realise that divorce is the only path to take now! He has told them that it is definitely over, that he has no feelings for me. She is furious with him. She has told him if it is definitely over, then he needs to look for a more permanent place to stay, as they were thinking it was temporary until he came home..

He has read the email I send him and said it changes nothing, not that I expected it too, but this email was more about my angry feelings, which the last one wasnt.

Dozer Fri 11-May-12 22:12:14

Could you maybe take a break from contact with him (except for anything urgent to do with DD or contact). He will only continue to fuck with your head.

You could use time to reflect, see your real friends (not this couple he's staying with, let them deal with whatever they need to re the living arrangements, it's not your problem), get legal advice, set up financial protection etc.

Anger is a stage of grieving, is better than denial IMO!

Lizzabadger Fri 11-May-12 22:58:01

It's really better not to be talking to the ow friend's wife about this. Do you have anyone else in rl you can turn to?

midwife99 Fri 11-May-12 23:03:06

I agree you need to cut off contact with OW. She's a shit stirrer!

skyebluesapphire Fri 11-May-12 23:09:42

I did ask her to be honest with me and I wanted to know what he was telling them. But he said there's no way he will change his mind and that I need to move on. He said he has no feelings for me at all now.

He has changed into cold hard person who I No longer know and I told him that he is no longer the man that I fell in love with

oikopolis Fri 11-May-12 23:15:20

skye i mean this gently, but you do know that asking someone to be honest with you, doesn't mean they are actually going to be honest with you?

i really think you should distance yourself from this woman, you really have no insight into what her motives are and i doubt they are quite as snow white as you seem to believe.

just stop talking to these people altogether. maybe when your H has moved out of her house and there's several months' worth of distance between them, then you can start thinking about striking up a friendship with her again.

the reason i say all this is, by talking to her etc you are setting yourself up for more betrayal and/or confusion.

e.g. even if her intentions are good..
let's say she confronts your H with something you've said to her ("why are you being so shitty to skye?" etc)
and then H comes back to you, and twists her words around,
and you feel like you have to defend yourself
and end up crying
and feel horrible
and he's all smug and it makes it even worse
and then you have a go at her, and she insists she didn't say it like that...

just endless drama.

i'm sorry H is being such a knobber. no-one here was hoping they were right about him. i'm sad that you're sad sad

stuffitunderthebed Fri 11-May-12 23:16:05

He is a weak man who toyed with your feelings rather than be a 'man' about it all and be honest and respectful. Agree with other posters who advocate not discussing things with friends wife - he lives there; they talk far too much about YOUR relationship and YOUR life. And everything YOU say will be relayed back... Maintain a dignified silence. Correspond with him only and in a formal way. Allow yourself some breathing and thinking space and time to lick your wounds. I wish you well OP. Stay strong.

QueenieLovesEels Fri 11-May-12 23:34:14

Why do you need to know what he is telling them?

He has set you straight and that is all you need to know.

Time out required.

SharpObject Fri 11-May-12 23:42:19

I remember your last thread and will say the same again on this thread.

Back away, take what he has told you and make yourself unavailable to him.

Do this for 1 month without thinking about anything more than yourself and your child, if he gets in touch for reasonable contact then allow that but do not get involved with anympre drama with him for now.

One month will make you stronger and if he doesn't get in touch you will learn one more thing about why you don't need him.

skyebluesapphire Sat 12-May-12 09:50:03

I just wanted to know what he had told them. He told them that I read the letter and asked for divorce so I wanted to put her straight, as it wasn't like that, i stressed that he had to be sure this is what he wants as the only option left is divorce.. but I won't be contacting her again about him, as there is nothing left to say. But we will keep in touch.

I know totally where I stand now, I don't need a weak coward of a man anyway. He should have stood up to me and let me know when he was unhappy. I am not a bad person and I won't let him make me think I am and bring me down.

He hasn't texted about seeing daughter tomorrow but I'm not going to contact him. He wants to make his own decisions without me organising his life so let him get on with it. He'd better not let her down though.

Proudnscary Sat 12-May-12 10:06:03

Skyeblue- really sorry it's come to this, feel so bad for you sad. He's behaved appallingly, you tried very hard to save your marriage - but he had already checked out. He's been very cruel to you actually. I agree you should stop contacting this 'friend's wife' now, my love.

Mumsyblouse Sat 12-May-12 11:20:50

Skye, make sure you have your real-life supporters (family?friends?) around you too, I agree that contacting the wife is only going to bring more pain. Step away from their drama (whatever it is) and put you and your daughter first.

skyebluesapphire Sat 12-May-12 13:18:36

Yes thanks I do have some good friends in RL. One spent the morning with me yesterday, another came over in the early evening and I have others on the end of the phone. My cousin and mum have both been brilliant as well. It helps me to talk through it all and realise there was no more that I could do, as he simply wasn't prepared to try . I am not a bad person I'm really not. His issues meant that he could not deal with facing up to reality and that's not my fault.

izzyizin Sat 12-May-12 13:34:13

No one here thinks you're a 'bad' person - all you've done is allowed yourself to be fooled by him into thinking he was something he's not, and there's not many of us who can say we haven't been fooled by those who are experts at the art of deception.

AnyFucker Sat 12-May-12 13:40:20

skye, you know why we all so clear that he was going to let you down and that you should not be taking him at face value, don't you ?

because we've been there (or variations thereof) and when you look with an objective eye (emotions aside) it is very easy to see....not so when you love someone and don't expect them to fuck you over

midwife99 Sat 12-May-12 15:09:31

Of course you're not a bad person! You just couldn't see the truth because you had love blinkers on. Now they're off! Now you're free! You'll be ok honestly. Distance distance distance is the key. No texts, no emails, no chats. Just DD contact & that's it.

Lizzabadger Sat 12-May-12 15:18:25

Do your RL friends know about all the texts to the ow? If so, what's their view? Do they think you should still be in contact with her?

dondon33 Sat 12-May-12 15:52:52

Skye you need to re in force that within yourself "you're not a bad person" and start believing it, because it looks like he has made you believe that you are sad

oikopolis Sat 12-May-12 16:21:21

thinking of you and your DD today skye

nkf Sat 12-May-12 16:25:10

Have you found a lawyer yet? Time to be practical. Feel how you feel, that's hard to predict/control anyway. But do get the practicals sorted asap. Good luck.

Charbon Sat 12-May-12 16:46:11

Oh Skye of course you're not a bad person! Why do you think so many of us persevered with your thread even though we could see we weren't getting through?

We could see that not only had your husband done a number on you, you were doing a number on yourself which is why I wanted you to compare your two threads to see the different stories you were weaving from one week to the next. This whole ghastly business seemed to have got you distorting your memories and your truth and it was very sad to see.

But you need to stop contact with all the protagonists in the drama now and stop talking about what's happened with people who've been part of the story. Leave it up to your husband now to make arrangements to see your daughter and if you're in contact with him, let it be only about arrangements now.

Lean on people who've only got your best interests at heart now and who have no vested interest in what happens next.

cenicienta Sat 12-May-12 17:38:34

I don't think you're a bad person either!

Re your DD, unfortunately her df is a weak and selfish man. At some point in the future she may well realise that and make her own decisions accordingly.

Until then, the chances are he's going to let her down over and over again.

This is NOT your responsibility! At times you will have to pick up the pieces but you can't force him to be a good father!

You need to concentrate on your relationship with her. Make sure she feels secure with you. Be consistent with her. Don't talk badly about her df in front of her (which I don't think you have done at any point) and make it your aim to be as fair and consistent as possible re access with dh.

Be clear with him as well, re access times and his responsibility. From the start make it clear this is his responsibility!

skyebluesapphire Sat 12-May-12 19:27:41

I wasn't going to text him but he hadnt been in touch about seeing her tomorrow... And she was asking if she was going to see him so I had to text and ask him! Makes me bloody mad. I will make it clear to him tomorrow that it's up to him to contact me to arrange it not the other way round....

Just boxed up all his CDs DVDs books etc so he can take it all tomorrow. He's got nowhere to put it but that's not my problem.

stuffitunderthebed Sat 12-May-12 19:41:00

Well done sky. Hope you're ok!

PooPooInMyToes Sat 12-May-12 20:01:24

You could have just told her that you weren't sure but if she didn't seething then the two of you would do something nice together.

PooPooInMyToes Sat 12-May-12 20:01:47

See him, not seething!

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 11:33:13

so he turns up this morning, smiles and says alright then. I couldnt even look at him. I said goodbye to my daughter and then shut the door. Then I sat down and cried. I wish I never had to see him ever again :-(

Please tell me this gets easier......

izzyizin Sun 13-May-12 11:34:29

It gets easier... hang on in there because it really does get easier, honey.

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 12:30:12

it does get easier, how can it not ?

midwife99 Sun 13-May-12 13:13:38

It will get easier. Eventually you will have a day full of plans to do grown up stuff while ex twunt has DD & be pleased you have this free time. You won't care whether you see him or not.

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 14:47:52

I just feel so heartbroken, Im crying for the man that I thought I knew, that seems to have turned into somebody else. A cold cruel heartless bastard. I just want my life back, with my husband who used to be so lovely. I dont know where that man went. I know I drove him away, but he should have talked to me, I had no idea how he was feeling. and you can only walk over somebody if they let you and dont tell you there is a problem. It was dispicible what he did to me, going out on the date being all lovey dovey and then destroying me by letter 4 days later.

I know that I need to hate him and no doubt I will in time, but I just love him so much and want him back despite everything... But I know its never going to happen and things would never be right again even if he did..

Trouble is I was 30 before I met him, I had a couple of relationships before but nothing serious, we fell in love so quickly and he moved in 4 months later and I just cant see past the fact that he was the one and cant ever imagine that i will find anybody else.

How will I ever trust anybody again, I will be paranoid that they arent saying how they really feel, that Im going to walk all over them and drive them away again.

I just feel like shit right now

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 14:57:30

love, he was never that man

it isn't possible to "drive someone away" that doesn't want to go

I am not at all surprised your relationship moved so fast at the beginning. You never knew the real him

this is the real him, and was all along

as soon as the going got a bit tough, he jumped ship and it was always going to happen

you need to accept that, and stop blaming yourself

nkf Sun 13-May-12 15:09:57

It gets easier.
It gets easier.
It gets easier.
It gets easier.
Eventually - though you won't believe me yet - it gets fine.

PooPooInMyToes Sun 13-May-12 15:21:34

By saying that you drove him away you are still taking responsibility for it all. He has gone because he's a weak character, he's done it before to exs, you know this. He runs off when things are hard. He is a wimp and has issues. That's not your fault and i think you will see that one day.

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 15:29:34

I know, I keep going over it all in my mind and just feel desperate :-( I know that there was nothing I could do if I didnt realise how he felt. I told him that he cant go through life like this, walking out on every relationship rather than speak up. He does have issues, mainly due to the way that his mother treated them as children, no love, no praise, no comfort, putting them down all the time etc.

He really isnt the man that I thought he was. He used to be so kind caring and considerate, but has become very selfish. He used to love our house and where its situated, no traffic, quiet culdesac, daughter ride bike etc, detached property. Now he is saying that he prefers living in town as there is so much more going on and everything within easy reach! Thats got nothing to do with our relationship, yet he throws it in as a reason for leaving! He has bought into the friends life, popping down weatherspoons for tea, getting takeaways, walking to the cinema etc. She sadly said to me that they live a childless life, therefore they keep themselves busy by doing all these things, but they would far rather have the child and be at home.. If he moves out, he will not be able to do everything with them as he wont be there to see what they are doing and the probably feel obliged to ask him along whereas if hes not living there then they wont. So he will be living in town, but have nobody to go anywhere with! I really dont know what he wants out of life any more

nkf Sun 13-May-12 15:31:25

Well, never mind about him now. Are you seeing a solicitor next week? Do you have numbers to call? The finances are complicated and you will need some good advice. Keep focussed on you and your daughter. He can sort his own life out.

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 15:33:58

he wants a single life

he's got it

what a pity he had to ruin your life in the process

don't you dare feel sorry for him, when he relaises the grass isn't greener

this man will drift from relationship to relationship...hurting people along the way

let him go

let it go

you will find someone else who shares your values, this man is not that person and he never has been

oikopolis Sun 13-May-12 15:36:37

oh skye
you are going to be OK
i know the pain is dreadful right now, but try to hang on to the idea that all you need do is get through this time, and then it will be over, and then you can be happy.

you will never know his mind. he's a closed book, all of us are, others only know what we tell them. i know that for the next few weeks, even months, you may torture yourself looking for reasons... but again, try to remember, those reasons aren't yours and they are not your responsibility.

you didn't do anything wrong.
you loved and trusted someone you should have been able to love and trust. but he broke your trust, for his own reasons. that is not your fault.

nkf Sun 13-May-12 15:40:10

The other thing about reasons is that they aren't really reasons. He wanted out - probably because there is someone else - and all the criticism of you is him looking for a reason to explain why he wants out. That's all. To look for sense and honesty from him is wasting your time.

Make a list of everything that needs to be done. Try not to blame yourself.

Secrecy Sun 13-May-12 15:40:37

I agree he wants a single life, and though it seems impossible now, the next step is to stop torturing yourself over what he wants / what he could have been thinking. I mean this kindly - it's irrelevent now, because now you must focus on what you can plan to make YOUR life (and that of your daughter) happy and fulfilling. And yes, it will be! Without him messing with your head!

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 15:56:41

well I already have a holiday booked in July for us. I was hoping he would come too, but obviously not now. My mum will probably come down for a couple of nights which will be nice, but even if she doesnt, I booked this for my daughter as she loves the characters in the entertainment and I dont want her to be let down by not having a holiday, so that is in 2 months time and hopefully I will be a lot stronger by then anyway..

I know that I am the lucky one who will see my daughter grow up each and every day, while he will only see her once a week or once a fortnight, whatever we decide ultimately. I think that every Sunday is good at the moment as she is only 4 and a fortnight is a long time for her not to see him.

I am going to ring solicitors tomorrow and see if I qualify for legal aid and where I stand on the house etc. He gave me back any joint cards last week, so he cant spend any money, although he can access the joint account online. I will ring the bank tomorrow to change the bank account. He didnt pay any money in last week as he forgot........ so hopefully he wont forget again.....

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 16:01:56

you will be stronger by July, I guarantee it

and you will give your dd a lovely holiday

he "forgot" to pay money in ? hmm

it's going to get very bumpy, my love, you are going to have to get very, very strong

nkf Sun 13-May-12 16:11:32

AF is right. The "forgot" is a bit worrying. Glad you have plans for next week.
Keep going. It's like a tightrope walk. Head up, look forward, one step at a time.

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 16:18:11

I just put the rest of his stuff outside the door. When he left he took his clothes and that was about it. So now he has all the rest of his crap too. 3 boxes and 2 bin bags. Thats the total sum of belongings that he has in this house... he came with very little, he is also leaving with very little . He can have some towels, bedding, glasses, cutlery etc when he moves into his new place and his chest of drawers and his armchair, but theres not much else he can take without depriving our daughter as we dont have any spare furniture.

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 16:22:04

skye...you know that stubborn streak we all (well, maybe just me) said you had when you were still singlehandedly trying to save your relationship, it will serve you well right now

midwife99 Sun 13-May-12 16:23:04

That's it clear him out of your house & it'll help. Honestly it's a classic tale of narcissistic man I'm afraid. Fell in love & moved in with you quickly. Was wonderfully considerate & caring to start with. Then became selfish & self centred after real life & parenthood kicked in angry

PooPooInMyToes Sun 13-May-12 16:36:29

Oh honey sad

That's a ridiculous reason for leaving! What a twat!

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 16:40:02

I really am struggling today, having to think about all these things that I never ever thought I would have to do. I thought he was my husband for life, we would grow old and grey together. He is no oil painting but I loved him for who he was. He had a lovely personality. He was shy and lacked confidence and couldnt organise his way out of a paper bag, but I loved him despite all his faults. He loved me for all mine too, to start with. He used to laugh at my sarcastic comments, take them with a pinch of salt like they were intended, but somewhere along the line he stopped laughing and took them to heart.

But even for everything he put in his letter, we used to sit and talk and laugh and every night we went to bed and cuddled up to go to sleep. Every night! we made love 2 or 3 times a week at least. How could he do that if he didnt even like the person that I was. Im really struggling with that aspect of things, that on paper he says he was unhappy for years, didnt know how to comfort me when my aunt died as it was too awkward, yet he was quite happy to kiss me and make love to me.... How the hell was I supposed to know there was anything wrong!

I know its all irrelevant now and I cant change a thing, but its driving me crazy.. We both see things very differently, like he says he always took our daughter to the park on his own, or in the garden and I never wanted to go. I said I was usually getting dinner or tea and it was supposed to be a good thing for them to have some time together! He says I didnt care when he was ill before Christmas, yet I remember pushing him to go to the doctor, then when he was told he couldnt have an appointment for a week, I made him ring back and they gave him one the next day and he needed antibiotics for a severe chest infection. I had a stomach bug at the same time as he was ill and was in bed for 2 days. I gave him as much care as I was able to at the time! Its like 2 different stories being told.

I know that in order to feel better about himself leaving, he has to make me as bad as possible, to justify what he is doing.

PooPooInMyToes Sun 13-May-12 16:47:49

His stories all involve "oh poor meeeeee!"

PooPooInMyToes Sun 13-May-12 16:48:15

What a self absorbed like twat!

angry

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 16:48:41

that's just it

it doesn't mean you have to believe it though

garlicfucker Sun 13-May-12 16:53:55

You're right. He's reframing the past (lying) to make himself feel better.

That's fairly contemptible.

mrspepperpotty Sun 13-May-12 16:54:31

You know something skye, my DH and I had exactly the same issue about the park / garden - I thought it was a nice opportunity for him to spend time with the kids, whereas he thought it would be more fun if we all went together as a family. So guess what? He told me how he was feeling, we discussed it and reached a compromise - because that's what adults do! They don't secretly chalk it up as a black mark against you for when he wants a list of "reasons" for leaving you.

This man makes me so angry. What a wanker!!

izzyizin Sun 13-May-12 16:55:06

How the hell was I supposed to know there was anything wrong! There wasn't anything wrong.

Its like 2 different stories being told That's because there are 2 stories being told. Your accurate story and his rewriting of history to justify what he's done, and is continuing to do.

Don't let him make you doubt yourself; you're the one with a grip on reality and he's the one that's writing fiction.

If the poor little flower had truly stopped laughing at your sarcasm and started taking your comments to heart, he would have moved out before he met the ow long ago.

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 16:56:24

I know you are right. i don't have to believe it. I am NOT that person that he wrote so horribly about. He took all the bad points out of 10 whole years and put them together rather than look at the bad patch of a couple of months. He couldnt tell me stuff as he didnt want to hurt me, yet writes a bitter bile filled letter to end it after a lovely date. He is a total bastard and I really need to hold onto that thought.

He just text to say he will be back at 5.30pm with daughter. I need to get the point across to him that he picks her up and drops her off at a set time. Im not always going to be home all day and I may be out of signal, so it needs to be prearranged.

Secrecy Sun 13-May-12 16:56:37

sad

I'm so sorry. He really hasn't been fair with you and it's not as if you can snap your fingers and be over him. thanks

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 17:07:42

If only I could.... I go along fine for a few hours, then end up crying again because it never needed to end this way. But I cant turn back the clock and change things.

I have always been a great believer in destiny and what is meant to be will be, but am finding it very hard to apply that to myself at the moment..

nkf Sun 13-May-12 17:09:37

I know it's hard but you have to find a way to turn off his words. They say more about him than they do about you.

Some things that can help.
When you feel yourself thinking and overthinking, do something physical.
Have a phrase to stop it. Eg: "I'll listen to that hurtful voice later. Not now." And keep putting it off.
Or this one worked for me.
I allowed myself a limited amount of time to beat myself up. Five minutes. And then that was it for the day. Every time the critical voice came back, I'd say, "I've done that for the day. Come back tomorrow.

I know it sounds mad but it helped me stop hurting myself with what ifs and if only I hads.

LimitedAppeal Sun 13-May-12 17:29:24

Goodness I really feel your pain and feel for you. Bloody well done for putting his stuff outside. You will look back on that one day and laugh. Honestly.

You have had very wise advice on here. He is now revealing himself as the actual the man you married - that lovely considerate bloke was an imposter.

'Idealise, devalue discard'...he is following the script and it is hideously painful to be their victims.

But and it's a wonderful but, you remain the true you - caring, kind, compassionate, a wonderful mother, a caring and loving wife and partner (ignore the crap he has convinced you of re walking all over him. It's utter utter bollocks believe me)

You have your life ahead of you (you are VERY young really! wink) and you have your big fat nice heart and personality to carry you along your way. You will be fine but it's going to be a rough ride for a few months.

gather your friends and family around you. Lean on people and ask for help. This is important.

Build your walls around him.

You are dead right to leave any communication re access to him

I bet a pound to a penny his desire for contact with his daughter withers. Which is great as he will just pass out of your lives like a pirate ship into the fog, just as he drifted into it. You will then not have to deal with him.

You will meet someone else. Life goes on.

Life is a heap of shit sometimes. But you will emerge strong and wise from this horrible time.

Get yourself a good solicitor. Yes yes to sorting out the joint account.

He didn't 'forget'...well actually, scrub that: he might well have forgotten...because these types are very able to just delete former 'lovers' from their lives in their desperate quest for the next Mrs Perfect. They never ever find them. Listen to the words of the song 'Jar of Hearts' . Says it all to me.

They are the ones though who don't live a real proper fulfilling life. Their are shadows, they box shadows, they lead meaningless loveless lives as their is no real love or joy at the very core of them

Hope he enjoyes getting a kebab and going to the dog and stick tonight.

Knobfest of the highest order.

<<hugs>>

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 18:08:11

Idealise, devalue and discard

that is just it

that is what he has done, skye

I am so sorry

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 18:16:11

So he dropped her off, he smiled and said alright again, i couldnt manage to say anything to him, just took her stuff from him without looking at him, told her to say goodbye to him and shut the door. He loaded up all his stuff. He looks kind of sheepish, not in a bad mood.... He surely cannot expect me to be friendly though now........

Daughter has told me that she went to a restaurant with him and the friends wife and her friend and then they all went for a walk on the beach. and then she went to see her Nan. Whenever we went to see MIL I always suggested a walk on the beach, but we never had time.....

The friends husband stayed at home to look after the dog..... I had reconciled myself to the fact that there was nothing going on there after numerous conversations with both her and my husband but then things like this happen and I get all paranoid again... I could understand it if her H was there, but it was just her and her friend..

My husband, the man who didnt want to be out every weekend, who wanted to be at home. mind you he doesnt really have a home to stay in at the moment does he.... now appears to be out all the time and when i called him on this last week, he said that it was harsh of me to expect him to stay in all the time! The man who never wanted to go out......

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 18:21:10

you have been suckered, love

best accept it

then you will move on all the quicker

botoxschmotox Sun 13-May-12 19:30:44

Try not to torture yourself with trying to work out whether there is a significance to the friend, the wife and the friend. As hard as it is, there's nothing you can do about what he does/doesn't do and how often he goes out.
Concentrate on yourself OP, try and distance yourself from him and not concern yourself with how often he goes out and what he's up to - you will only ever know what lines he wants to spin you anyway. Instead, concentrate on what you are up to. There are no guarantees in life, but I can promise this - you will not always feel this way. Life moves on relentlessly and it will take you along with it whether you want it to or not, and in turn you will go through the various stages of grieving for a lost relationship. Then that'll be it. You'll move on. Life WILL get better for you - hang in there.

botoxschmotox Sun 13-May-12 19:34:42

Ignore first sentence of my post, OP it doesn't make sense.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 13-May-12 20:24:03

Ah, he is still on the cheater's script - The Rewriting History section.

They do this to make you look bad and to make them look good.

This can really fuck your mind but remember that you KNOW what really happened.

I know its really hard but you need to start rebuilding your life and that means protecting yourself and DD financially and legally.

Charbon Sun 13-May-12 20:25:42

Actually I think there is value in your suspicions being re-confirmed because it's so sad to see you again today Skye giving any headspace to your husband's spurious 'complaints' about you. I wish we could persuade you that those aren't the reasons he's bailed out of this marriage. They are lies.

The real reason he bailed was walking on the beach with him and your daughter today and the 'friend' was a cover for their sake, because they knew that your daughter would report back.

The sooner you accept that, the quicker it will be to detach from him and to stop torturing yourself with these accusations that you were a terrible person who made her husband unhappy for years.

Men and women like this - who would rather an abandoned partner blame him/herself are the lowest of the low. They are completely spineless because they don't have the courage to admit that they did something wrong and that this is the reason a marriage is in tatters.

It's so good to see your anger come to the fore now, but it would be better still if you realised that the reasons you've been given are utterly false - and that this woman is no friend of yours and never was.

tribpot Sun 13-May-12 20:35:30

I know that there was nothing I could do if I didnt realise how he felt

No. There was nothing you could do because he chose to make it so. You are so, so not to blame for what has happened. Not just through his inability to tell you how he was feeling but because it is not your job to bend your entire life around making him happy. You did, from everything you've said, far far more to hang on to this relationship, to take care of him and his feelings and his needs than he ever did for you.

What did he do for YOU? I'm not talking about housework, that's not your job that he happened to pitch in with. He didn't comfort you when your aunt died - too awkward? Couldn't be arsed? Expected you just to man up and get on with it? He failed in this relationship - not because he took your sarcastic comments to heart. Because he was weak, selfish and cowardly. He failed.

stuffitunderthebed Sun 13-May-12 20:41:30

Why in hell is the friend's wife out with him on his contact with your DD? Totally inappropriate. And the poor friend is at home minding the DOG? WTAF?? Reiterate earlier advice; know how hard this must be for you but continue with your minimal contact with this man. No contact with this woman. She is not your friend.

ChildofIsis Sun 13-May-12 20:42:31

Skye I couldn't read and not post.
I'm 8 months on from an email ending my 21yr marriage, it was the most heartbreaking, shocking thing I've ever had to deal with but do you know what? I'm glad he left!
He's no longer the man I was in love with, I fell out of love with him surprisingly quickly.

I have found strength and self-worth I never knew I had.
I'm even having a 'thank god he left' party next month.

There is life after this for you but it may be a rocky road for a while.
You are strong and courageous and you deserve to be treated well.

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 20:43:23

do dogs not walk on beaches ? hmm

stuffitunderthebed Sun 13-May-12 20:54:03

AF - spot on!

tribpot Sun 13-May-12 20:56:29

AF I thought that, but there was the restaurant first. Even so, leaving the husband at home to mind the dog is one of the most tragic excuses I've ever read.

izzyizin Sun 13-May-12 20:59:05

Why do I suspect she's trained the husband to be more subservient than the dog?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sun 13-May-12 21:02:46

I think that many beaches are closed to dogs... particularly coming up to high season.

I feel angry for the OP as whichever of these two women is the OW, he has introduced his and OP's daughter to them, without OP's knowledge or consent and in a very deceitful way.

stuffitunderthebed Sun 13-May-12 21:07:37

Agreed lying witch. Very underhand behaviour. I also still don't understand why the dog needs looking after at all? What about all these times when the OP's husband, friend and wife go to wetherspoons and the cinema etc, why is the dog ok to be left alone then??

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 13-May-12 21:09:47

Yeah, the husband probably already has made other arrangements hmm

izzyizin Sun 13-May-12 21:10:17

Surely the ow's friend could have walked the dog along the prom while the ow took the same hand-in-hand stroll on the beach that skye enjoyed with her h last weekend, Lying?

And yes, he chose an extremely underhanded and deceitful way to introduce dd to the ow but honesty and integrity aren't his strongpoints.

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 21:26:18

thanks for all the advice. Im not sure whats going on there, I was convinced nothing, I know people lie, but I honestly didnt think there is anything going on, but I agree when its his contact he should be spending his time with daughter, not with friends as well, but if I say anything I will be the bitter wife who doesnt want him to see his friends... I know that the wife and the friend were playing netball this morning. They had lunch at a carvery pub in his mums village, it also has a small softplay area. But it cant have been a coincidence that they bumped into each other!!

I spoke to his brother just now and his brother said he never told him, he only knew because I texted him! He rang my H and he said yes its over I wrote her this letter. his brother said are you 100% certain mate this is what you want and he said no Im not certain...... TWAT! His brother said move on, dont contact him, let him get in his bedsit feeling sorry for himself and then he may feel different.. But he said by then I will probably be in a totally different place and wouldnt want him back anyway...

His brother said that he wasnt unhappy 12 months ago as he can remember talking to him. He said he is very much behaving out of character. So I have got to stop beating myself up over all this.

It doesnt change the situation. Its still over.

AnyFucker Sun 13-May-12 21:32:45

his brother sounds like a wise man

what a pity the genes didn't pass along that blood line

LimitedAppeal Sun 13-May-12 21:59:36

What are you doing right now op? I am watching Lewis on telly and have shoved a home-made chicken curry in the oven.

Got a glass of wine on the go and am doing a bit of sewing... I am making hand-made cards to try to sell.

I am so sorry you are going through all this shock and pain. I went through it some years ago and you do come through it smile.

It's like the Bear Hunt: "you can't go over it, you can't go under it...you have to go through it." so true.

Any love you have for him will just diein the end because love is like a bloom: it needs nurturing like growing a flower - ie it needs water and sunshine and trimming and re-potting etc. If there is none of that, the plant/love just dies. Love withers if it's not given love back.

One day you and dd will be on a girly break together in Greece and you will be sooo glad you don't have your miserable lying fuckwit of a man in your life.

midwife99 Sun 13-May-12 22:00:14

Yeah brother sounds an honest guy. DH, OW & co - wankers!

Charbon Sun 13-May-12 22:29:34

Skye, he wasn't unhappy at all until January when he gave the OW a lift to university. Think about Christmas and New Year - I bet he was giving every impression of being happy and content then. Your problems started with this other relationship.

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 22:31:21

yeah, I feel a bit better in my head after talking to his brother. He doesnt think Im a bad person and he said that my H told him today that his head is fcuked and hes not sure of anything any more. Like I said, it doesnt change anything, but its helped me to get a bit of perspective on everything.

Im sat on the computer swapping between here and chatting to a friend on facebook, but my eyes are really tired now and the cat wants feeding and I need to go to bed.

Need to try and keep this perspective going in my head.

Thanks for all the support everyone.

skyebluesapphire Sun 13-May-12 22:33:01

limitedappeal my daughter loves that book, it drives me crazy, lol

It's like the Bear Hunt: "you can't go over it, you can't go under it...you have to go through it." so true.

But you are right, its so very true..

Charbon Sun 13-May-12 22:37:36

Sleep well Skye and retrace your memories. Don't let him corrupt or distort them.

sadanduseless Sun 13-May-12 22:51:42

So very, very sorry Skye that it didn't work out the way that you wanted!

Take care of yourself!

QueenieLovesEels Mon 14-May-12 09:48:46

Taking the child out with other people straight after splitting up is really off and I would be furious.

Children need one-to-one time especially during these unsettling times.

He really is a spineless, selfish, grade A turd.

This reeks to be frank with ref to the OW (cough) 'friend'. She is a massively entitled so-and-so too, interfering with a little child's contact time with her father.

Most decent people would know how inappropriate that is. The fact she/he doesn't is very telling and it speaks volumes as to where both their priorities are centred.

QueenieLovesEels Mon 14-May-12 09:50:21

Grrrrrrrrrr..................angry

clam Mon 14-May-12 10:11:17

See, I'd want to write back to him and point out that his account of the last however many years is bollocks flawed. Just so that it doesn't stand as the last word on the relationship.

Remind him what you've told us: that you were also ill when he was and despite that,helped him re: doctor's appointment; that when you were on the PC/TV, he was too; that you organised your lives because he wasn't doing so and that someone needed to. But most of all, how DARE he complain of being unhappy when he DID NOT TELL YOU - more than that, gave every impression of things being fine. Tell him it's bullshit and that you will not accept sole responsibility for the demise of a relationship that was 50% his responsibility too.

skyebluesapphire Mon 14-May-12 10:52:02

I did email him back after I got the letter snd pointed all of the above out to him. The friends wife texted me today and said that he is now thinking if moving back to where he came from about a 2-3 hour drive away. I said that's not fair on his daughter I don't want her time with him spent in a van on the motorway , he would have to have her every other weekend for a full weekend. What about his business? He's just not thinking straight about anything at all. He went home very quiet and shocked that all his stuff was in the drive but she said to him well what do you expect ....

AnyFucker Mon 14-May-12 10:54:34

skye, you are still in the dance

you need to stop talking about him with this woman

why aren't you listening to us on this ?

nkf Mon 14-May-12 11:38:43

AF is right. Stop thinking about him and her and what he is going to do. Think about access and contact that seems right for your daughter. You will have to think about how often and when. There is something helpful material on some website. CAFCAS maybe. Somebody else will know.

Think about money and work out what you need to live.

Make an appointment with a lawyer asap.

Forget about him and his stuff and what some third party said.

I made the mistake you're making and it drags things out for so long.

skyebluesapphire Mon 14-May-12 11:43:40

Because I am still convinced really that nothing is going on there , I can't really explain it I know it all looks bad but i just don't get the vibe from either of them that there is something going on after talking to both of them about everything. She wants to chuck him out so he's on his own but her husband won't do that

AnyFucker Mon 14-May-12 11:47:29

he's left you love

why are you so interested (apart from how it affects your dd) about what his living arrangements are ?

would it actually help you to get proof that his and his friend's wife are havin/have had an inappropriate relationship ?

for many of us on your thread, we think it is so, even if they haven't shagged

this woman is getting some kind of kick out of pulling your strings and being in the middle of your drama...all of this has fuck-all to do with her (if there is nothing gone on), so why is she sticking her beak right into all the details of it ?

I simply don't understand why you are letting her yank your chain

SirSugar Mon 14-May-12 11:53:49

Horses mouth, FFS get info from the horses mouth or don't bother.

If you want the fuckwit man back tell him straight, if hes still dithering concentrate on DC and whats best for DC and take up another hobby

dondon33 Mon 14-May-12 12:31:42

let him get in his bedsit feeling sorry for himself and then he may feel different.. But he said by then I will probably be in a totally different place and wouldnt want him back anyway...

Hopefully you will be in place as mentally far away from him as possible. Yes let him get in his bedsit- then let him rot there. Don't allow yourself to have ANY pity for this man even if he begs for forgiveness. He has shown you his true colours Skye.

In regard to your "friend" I don't know if he has or hasn't had more than a friendship with her. But something doesn't seem right. If he has/is .....

i just don't get the vibe from either of them
They're not going to openly tell you or show you, are they?

She wants to chuck him out so he's on his own but her husband won't do that
Why do you think that is? You DON'T shit on your own doorstep. If there's something between them, of course she wants him to leave.

Personally, I would tell this woman to stop contacting me, keep her nose out of my business, if she wants to play mummy, agony aunt shit stirrer then go fuckoffdo it somewhere else.

Be strong Skye, start putting plans into action to help you go forward. Stop thinking about the what if's, you have the facts that you need....HE bailed out of your marriage and tried to make it your fault. He doesn't deserve another minute of your time or energy.
Good luck x

Mumsyblouse Mon 14-May-12 12:41:37

You really really do need to get all these extra people out of your marriage and your life. It is not helping having her text you with your husband's innermost thoughts and it is actually insulting to you that he is still confiding in her and not in you.

I would text her saying 'thanks but I need to speak directly with my husband from now on, please don't text anymore about this situation'.

Actually I would text something entirely different, but that's a different approach.

AnyFucker Mon 14-May-12 12:51:04

mumsy, that alternative text would have the words "off" and "fuck" in it, wouldn't it ? Don't be shy now.

PineappleBed Mon 14-May-12 13:07:42

Skye just wanted to say I'm so sorry about what you're going through and your (hopefully stbx) h is a selfish idiot.

You need to completely stop communicating with that woman, ignore her texts, cut her out. It doesn't matter if there's a relationship between then or not she's stirring it up and anything you say to her goes straight to him for him to use to fuck with you.

If he doesn't contact you about access to your daughter don't contact him. Just say, I'm not sure sweetheart I'm waiting for him to call. If you take responsibility for their relationship she will hold you responsible for it.

You sound so strong. Good luck with the lawyer!

skyebluesapphire Mon 14-May-12 13:56:58

When I rang BIL it was to say goodbye really, but he said it will never be goodbye, you have been family for 10 years and are still family despite what H is saying. He said its between me and H and they are not thinking that Im a bad person or anything. I wasnt going to talk about H, but he started to and then when he said that H had told him yesterday that his head is fucked and he doesnt know what he wants any more, it just threw me.

BIL told H that he cant expect us to be friends (he seems to think he can dump me and I will still be nice to him). He knew all along that coming in for tea etc would stop if it were totally over. BIL and his ex are friends now, but it took them years to get to that point and my H seems to think it can happen overnight. When he first left he was saying things like in a couple of months we can have family days out. Err no, you have left the family?!

I wont text him again about daughter, he needs to realise that some things in life do need to be organised. He can have her a bit longer too and give her tea, not bring her back at 5.30pm starving hungry!

MadAboutHotChoc Mon 14-May-12 14:01:20

It might be an idea to get access arrangements agreed so that everyone is aware what is happening and when etc. The solicitors will probably advise you on how to formalise this.

PooPooInMyToes Mon 14-May-12 14:06:05

If he doesn't contact you about access to your daughter don't contact him. Just say, I'm not sure sweetheart I'm waiting for him to call. If you take responsibility for their relationship she will hold you responsible for it.

I think that's very wise.

midwife99 Mon 14-May-12 14:55:15

I still think you need to cut off contact with that woman!! And anyone associated with him. Don't phone his family either. Distance yourself. It's the only way. hmm

skyebluesapphire Mon 14-May-12 16:31:59

I know I need to distance myself, its none of my concern what he does now, much as it kills me not to know what he is doing every day :-( We never spent much time apart, we were always together when not working, so it is very difficult for me.

I am seeing 2 solicitors tomorrow, one is a free half hour appointment, the other is £60 for about 3/4 of an hour, but he is an expert, been doing this for 30 years. I feel that I am doing something positive, but just know that Im not going to get through either appointment without crying.... But hopefully I will come out knowing a lot more than I do at the moment about how the whole separation/divorce/finances thing works.

I am just crying again now at the thought of having to do all this, the one thing I never thought I would have to do, divorce my husband. I love him so much and cant see how that is ever going to go away, despite whats happened. I dont want to have to face life without him. I feel so sad and lonely. Friends have been great but they cant be here all the time and I desparately want people to talk to....

midwife99 Mon 14-May-12 16:58:06

I know it's hard now like a bereavement but honestly in time you'll look at him & think thank god I got shot of him & how did I ever fancy him - yuk!!

AnyFucker Mon 14-May-12 17:22:43

you have us ! < tries to help in a small, small way >

nkf Mon 14-May-12 18:28:53

Poor you. It feels unbearable, I know. That's because it is unbearable. But weirdly, you do bear it. I know when I decided to divorce my husband. It was the worst thing I could imagine and yet there I was, still standing. It felt like a miracle.

Your salvation - although you don't know it yet - is that you are feeling it. You have to experience it. He's running away. To what? A woman? His youth? Some crash. But you are being brave and sitting with the pain. And, in the long run, that's better than pretence and denial.

Beyond that, all I can say is that I do feel for you, anonymous though it all is.
And it will get better. Not overnight or even at a steady pace but, overall, it will get better.

nkf Mon 14-May-12 18:29:39

"Some crash" was a weird typo. And, well done for contacting the solicitors.

Mumsyblouse Mon 14-May-12 18:46:00

Skye, you won't be the first person to have cried in the solicitor's office and you won't be the last. It will be upsetting, you did not choose this and you are still in love with your husband, it's him that has chosen this path. YOu are doing the right thing though, ploughing on, it will get easier, but not in the next few days I don't think. Take care of yourself, talk with these friends and spend time with your dd. You will get through it, but there will be ups and downs on the way.

skyebluesapphire Mon 14-May-12 19:40:16

Just cancelled the lottery direct debit as the account is in his name. Be just my luck the bastard would win the lottery and then refuse to share it! Have started a new account with new numbers for myself - just 1 play a week on a Saturday :-) I changed his email details on the account so he will be notified that its been stopped........

PooPooInMyToes Mon 14-May-12 20:01:05

Anything else to cancel? Anything else which isn't your responsibility? His car insurance?

stuffitunderthebed Mon 14-May-12 20:12:25

You are on a roll! Well done sky. Its these small acts which will ultimately help you to feel a little bit of empowerment in a situation which has left you feeling powerless. I cannot imagine what you are going through but your efforts to reconcile have failed. So you must must step back and build your own life away from him. Who knows, given time he may step up to you and come back if given space to miss you and come to senses... Or better still during that time you will come to yours and realise that you no longer need or want him!

TimeForMeAndDD Mon 14-May-12 20:14:58

Skye I found it helpful to write everything down that I needed to say before I saw my solicitor. Any future appointments, I emailed him with everything I wanted to discuss the day before seeing him. It all helped, saved a lot of time too.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Stay strong smile

skyebluesapphire Mon 14-May-12 20:30:41

the car thankfully has always been registered, taxed and insured in my name as he had a van to insure. We bought the car last May on a 0% credit card that was just about to expire, so I cashed in my ISA to pay most of that off and put a small amount on another 0% card for 17 months so I should be able to pay it off in that time.

All that is left on the joint account now that is solely for him is the life insurance (which needs to be paid I think while we are sorting things out, as it will still come to me at the moment) and his Class 2 NIC. But while he is paying money into the account I am happy for those things to be paid out. All other payments are for utilities. I need to sit down and do a spreadsheet and look at the total costs of living here. My oil has nearly run out, I know I shouldnt need the heating for much longer (but its bloody cold some nights!), but it also does the hot water and if it runs out I will incur an engineer cost to sort it out, so may as well just buy some more oil, but have no savings to do so! as just spent all savings on car insurance. If Id known he was going to walk out a fortnight after it was paid, I would have put it on monthly instalments! and he cost me £50 more due to his mobile phone points......

I need to get my will changed, we had mirror wills, so left everything to each other. I wont remind him to change his though..... I need to leave everything to my daughter in trust.....

I have made a list for the solicitor, which will hopefully help me to stay focussed and answer the questions that I need answered.

skyebluesapphire Mon 14-May-12 20:44:39

Can anyone give me any advice re questions for the solicitor? I have a huge list but may have missed something...

Dozer Mon 14-May-12 20:52:40

Skye, really really glad that you are getting onto the practicalities, whatever happens it'll be good to have that side of things sorted. Sounds like you're on a roll!

Worried though that you are still communicating with OW ( his living arrangements are not your problem, and her chinese whispers on his feelings about you are - whatever her motives - irrelevant, it is your relationship and up to him to communicate if he wants to). Also concerned that you're still looking for signs that he will return, eg in what BIL said.

If he does comes back having said everything he's said in his letter, and you take him back, without any change in mindset from either of you, then he will never ever change and you will have to be a stepford wife to keep him. You and dd deserve better.

Did BIL have anything to say about his brother's past form with leaving relationships?(an earlier post mentioned he did something similar when rsp with his ex ended).

Dozer Mon 14-May-12 20:54:13

Think there is info in legal on qs for solicitors, hope it goes ok tomorrow, try to focus on the practical for th duration, then you can crumble after!

skyebluesapphire Mon 14-May-12 21:06:09

Dozer BIL did give me a little hope that he still doesnt know what hes doing, and maybe he is in some sort of crisis. He is now acting totally irrationally over everything, ie, wanting to move away now, from daughter, all his family, friends, business etc. but I am also certain that it changes nothing. He couldnt organise his way out of a paper bag, so unfortunately I will have to be the controlling woman that he hates and sort the divorce myself even though its not what I want I have been left with no choice. If he is still in some sort of headfuck and changes his mind further down the line, then there is no way I will greet him with open arms, he would need to agree to councelling, marital or otherwise to ensure that he would speak up in future. and I would need to be myself, although maybe with less sarcasm :-). and it would take a very long time to sort out if we should be together, BUT I dont think it will happen anyway.

BIL did say that he did the same to his ex. They were actually about to try for IVF due to problems on both sides (our daughter was conceived naturally though), he decided that he didnt want a child with her, to be tied to her and just walked. (to be fair though she had cheated on him repeatedly over the years, so it wasnt a great relationship). He just walked out on her because he had enough and that time he ran off to friends who lived miles and miles away, stayed there for a few days, then came home and moved back in with his mum for a bit, then ran away down here to live with his friend (the same friend he is staying with now). He moved to this (very small) town when he got work here.

I remember my H saying that he stayed with his ex because it was better than nothing. I guess hes not prepared to do that this time.... although I do realise that would be wrong if he did stay when he didnt want to.

stuffitunderthebed Mon 14-May-12 21:10:45

Sky, you are doing well - keep focusing on the practicalities. Will give you something to hang on to when emotions are getting the better of you. Remember to stay detached and contact with him only, about your daughter and legalities only. Keep it formal. You are making great strides in such a short space of time. Well done.

midwife99 Mon 14-May-12 21:11:34

He's a serial twunt then - telling a woman he wants a baby with her so badly that they will start IVF & then runs away!!! Oh god!! He's a charmer isn't he?!! confused

stuffitunderthebed Mon 14-May-12 21:40:37

Midwife! You stalking me? [Grin]

midwife99 Mon 14-May-12 21:41:25

grin

stuffitunderthebed Mon 14-May-12 21:49:02

What the hell did I do wrong?? 'Grin' in brackets? Wtaf?? SKY, sorry to hijack thread. Sorry midwife, just teasing - I'm absolutely hundred percent sure you have better things to do than follow me! [Grin]

stuffitunderthebed Mon 14-May-12 21:49:21

Oh ffs

stuffitunderthebed Mon 14-May-12 21:50:41

Try again grin

PooPooInMyToes Mon 14-May-12 21:52:55

Lower case g!

stuffitunderthebed Mon 14-May-12 21:54:43

Got it! Thanks poopoo grin sorry Sky.

PooPooInMyToes Mon 14-May-12 23:14:27

grin

skyebluesapphire Tue 15-May-12 11:22:34

I am having such a shit day today, Im at a clients working. Checked into facebook just now and hes on it, so hes obviously not working again today. I know that work has dried up, but if hes not earning, then its going to cause problems for me...

i just cant bear the thought of going to the solicitors this afternoon. Its really not something I ever ever thought i would have to do. If anybody asks how I am I start crying. I can barely face the school run taking her to preschool. Im on the verge of tears all the time. I suffer from bad PMS as well which doesnt help anything...

I keep thinking I should go to the doctor and see if they can help, but then i dont want to end up on pills. But I have been feeling so frustrated and angry for so long and it has helped to end my marriage, i can see that now. Maybe the PMS is more severe than I thought it was, I just dont know.

All I want is to be happy for my daughter and give her a loving home, not a mother who cries at the drop of a hat.

foolonthehill Tue 15-May-12 11:41:59

sapphire, it's the start of a road. you will feel better but it will be up and down. just try to get through days one hour at a time.

brew

PooPooInMyToes Tue 15-May-12 11:43:58

You won't always feel like this. It will pass. Its like grief, you go through all the stages.

sad

dondon33 Tue 15-May-12 12:18:10

Ahh Skye, stop beating yourself. He DIDN'T leave you because of your PMS hun.

Stop torturing yourself, un-friend him on facebook, what he chooses to do is not your concern now, you're just wasting your time and energy and keeping the raw wounds open. How he gets money to pay for shared bills or your Dc is his concern, so long as he gets it.

If you don't go to your solicitor appt today then you will have to go later, so best to get it over with. All your doing is finding out where you stand and what needs to be done, it's better to know these things for future reference and saves you from adding to your stress at the moment, by thinking about the unknown. Nothing will happen to finalise things unless you want it to.

You're entitled to be upset, you're going through a huge change in your life, it is like a bereavement in lots of ways. No one will blame you for being emotional.

P.S get yourself to the GP and talk about you pms, I suffered terribly until I was prescribed Pyridoxine (vitamin B6) women with bad pms are often deficient in B6 as we don't get nearly enough from food. My moods changed dramatically.
Magnesium supplements to lesson cramps and back pain.
Evening primrose oil to help balance hormones.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 15-May-12 12:21:17

Sorry to hear you are having a bad day. I would think about going to the Dr to get some help - you have responsibilities and need to look after yourself.

As for having felt frustrated and angry - people who have been cheated on will know what I mean when they realise just how much they reacted to their cheating partner's withdrawal and distance, not realising why they felt that way. For me it was like bumping into glass walls - I couldn't understand what was really happening and thought it was work, stress, kids and every day life getting to us.

oikopolis Tue 15-May-12 15:57:04

skye seriously, medication can actually help you more than you know. there are specific meds designed for short-term "reactive" depression (i.e., depression caused by life events, not by a chemical imbalance or a physical illness) that can just help you through this time. they're not long term, they're usually used for 3-6 months at a stretch.

it's not about you being "weak" or "needing" medication, it's about using tools that are available to you, to get through a v shitty time that another person has forced you into.

it can give you some control over what's happening. rather than being at the mercy of your H's whims iyswim.

i am so sorry you are feeling so shit. this time is very very hard and you have every right to feel crap. it would be illogical for you not to feel that.

at the same time though, you are within your rights to do whatever you can to get yourself (and your DD) through this time in one piece emotionally.

midwife99 Tue 15-May-12 15:59:27

Oh love - you're bound to struggle at the mo! I agree - unfriend on FB. No more involvement - go to see GP - you need support at the mo & short term ADs might help get you through the next few months. Not your fault!!

nkf Tue 15-May-12 19:22:52

There will be days like this and I feel for you. It's agony. You just have to feel it and it will pass.

In the meantime:
- stay off FB
- see the solicitor. If he's not working, all the more reason to get legal advice sooner rather than later.
- go to the GP. Pills can be great.

Take care. And, if it helps, keep posting.

stuffitunderthebed Tue 15-May-12 20:02:34

Hope solicitors went well (if you made it) - try not to be so hard on yourself. Hope you're feeling a wee bit better.

skyebluesapphire Tue 15-May-12 20:20:49

I did go to the solicitors today, saw 2 who gave me different advice :-/

But he cant kick me out of the house, he probably wont get a big share due to what I put down from the sale of my old house, hopefully he will agree to this and he only gets whats due in 14 years when daughter 18, or if I sell or remarry before then.

Solicitor agrees inappropriate contact with friends wife and this can be part of the unreasonable behaviour, along with him refusing to communicate etc.

The solicitor wanted to start divorce today, but I said wait a few weeks, but I know in my heart that my husband isnt going to change his mind and if he did it would never be right again and I would never trust him for one thing.

I so want to ring her husband and fill him in, see if he can check her phone when shes not looking, but Im afraid he wont believe me and will tell them what I have said. I will have to think on it. I need to call him when he is at work, so I know hes not with either of them two, but he may just think Im a stirring cow. But it may be enough to put the seed of doubt in his head. Maybe I should sit on it until after divorce, so that it cant affect my settlement or anything.... then when I have nothing to lose, I could just let him know that I was concerned about them and see what he says. I know I can prove the quantity of texts up to April, but if she hasnt deleted them, then he may be able to see something on her phone. My H deleted his, so I couldnt see what they said, although the last one sent was always there and it never showed anything odd...

tribpot Tue 15-May-12 20:39:26

The thing is, skye, he's living in the same house as the two of them (which is deeply odd). And he's apparently happy to be left babysitting a friggin dog whilst they jaunt off to the seaside with your dd. So I don't think you can really open his eyes to what's going on - it's happening right up in his face. Either he chooses not to see it or this inappropriate relationship actually isn't physical and so "it's all fine". I'd be very surprised if he knew about the volume of texts, though, so it might be worth throwing that into conversation at some point. But I don't think he'll take any notice of you now, and it's far more likely he's turning a blind eye in any case.

I understand why you want to wait to start divorce proceedings. But it may just be prolonging the agony.

stuffitunderthebed Tue 15-May-12 22:18:15

good advice there from tribpot. On the subject of divorce - start it when you are ready. wait a few weeks if you feel you need to. but don't wait for him. there's no rush. one step at a time sky. well done for going to solicitors; what is your next step or your 'plan' so to speak?

skyebluesapphire Tue 15-May-12 22:29:37

My next step is to see what money he continues to pay in (or not), maybe make an appointment for the end of June with the solicitor. I want to get in first with the divorce because I can petition him then rather than him hit me with unreasonable behaviour :-/ If he counter sues it makes it all more difficult. But apparently I should qualify for legal aid and that stops next April, so the solicitor said I shouldnt hang about, lol. Not that I should rush into it just because its free....

I suppose I just want to give him that one last chance, but I know really that its never going to happen.....

On facebook he has binned everybody he knows from his life here. I only looked because my friend said she was blocked and now the only mutual friends we have are his family and a couple of his friends. He has binned all my family and anybody he knew here (apart from me). I keep thinking about blocking him and unfriending him, but it seems so final (silly I know if we are divorcing!!!!!). I am still friends on fb with all his family as it seemed silly to dump them all and its nice to see how the kids are doing etc. I am godmother to 2 of them as well.

I have a girls night out planned in a couple of weeks, maybe a meal, certainly some drinks! am afraid I'll end up crying in the corner though..... arranged it when I thought things were going well with him so was on a bit of a high. Me and alcohol dont mix well when Im depressed, lol. But I also have a trip to the hairdresser the following day, so something to look forward to, get my highlights done.

stuffitunderthebed Tue 15-May-12 23:08:17

I'm half asleep - will reply properly in morning sky - don't want to read and run; leaving u hanging! Good night, hope you sleep well. Very un mums netty hug from me.

midwife99 Wed 16-May-12 07:42:43

One word of warning re legal aid - you have to pay it back one day so don't be gung ho re costs. Keep it simple! I ended up with an £11,000 charge on my house for legal aid thanks to ex twunt's love of appearing in court!

Abitwobblynow Wed 16-May-12 07:49:23

Sky that he has binned his family shows how deluded he is. 'New life' and all that. What he is running away from is:
'whereever you go, there you are'. Please make this HIS problem and not yours.

You don't have to bin his family if you get on with them! You are now related to them, through your dd.

'His behaviour, DOES NOT determine you worth'.

Abitwobblynow Wed 16-May-12 07:49:44

your worth.

Mumsyblouse Wed 16-May-12 09:00:19

Yes, I also wanted to say you don't need to wipe yourself out of his family's life, they are your daughter's family, as he is indeed her father, and so some contact will be appropriate through this. My dad (divorced) still calls to see my grandmother, he was her son-in-law for 25+ years and that doesn't all go away when you split up.

Someone up thread said perhaps your dd's dad will just slip away and lose interest in her and that would be better, just the two of you. Although this must seem very tempting, I don't agree this is better in most situations, children are apt to feeling abandoned by the parent who has left. So, as much as you can, I think you have to leave the door open for his parenting and involvement and not say bad things about him, even though the temptation must be to tell him to never darken your door again. This is why it can be better to make formal arrangements, mediation perhaps?

stuffitunderthebed Wed 16-May-12 10:23:56

Sounds like the night out and the highlights are something to look forward to! The facebook thing is similar to my ex husband but he went whole hog and deleted and blocked me and all of my family and friends. Onwards and upwards. I'm getting married in august - never would have met my fiance if had stayed with the ex hubby...

dondon33 Wed 16-May-12 11:46:36

Well done for forcing yourself to the solicitors Skye. Now you know where you stand with the house and stuff. Move to the next stage (starting the divorce) when you're ready to do so.
I wouldn't block his family on FB if you get on with them but him, I would have already.
Regarding the "friend" I wouldn't say anything for now, while it's all still so fresh. If the H doesn't know/suspects then it could come across as you just looking to blame someone iykwim. Keep it for later then speak with him. Just absolutely make sure you discuss nothing with HER about your life now and what your plans are.
Enjoy your night out with your friends, you deserve some fun and to be happy again. Hopefully by then you will feel stronger and more positive about your situation but if you still feel a bit weepy then that's ok too, I'm sure your friends will understand. xx

skyebluesapphire Wed 16-May-12 17:52:36

so, up and down day again today, managed to tell a couple of people who didnt know about it, without crying, so thats a kind of advancement. Am very tired as daughter kept me awake half the night, then in the end, climbed into my bed and put on her baby sleeping bag.. its been in the airing cupboard for months (she used to cuddle it while sleeping but gave it up when she gave up her dummies). But she spotted it and since husband left has been cuddling it or sleeping in it again. Its obviously comforting to her. Last night she put on a pull up and she hasnt been in them for well over a year. Again Im assuming its a comfort thing to her. She was very disturbed last night, then came in around 4am and went straight to sleep. i dont have a problem as long as its not every night.

Still maintaining facebook silence. I used to post several times a day, what I was doing etc, on my phone or the computer, but am not posting anything now, so he has no idea what we are up to.

Had a text from friends wife today, saying that he is very quiet, hasnt had much work on and has had time to think. I replied, well it wont make a difference anyway. She text back dont rush into a divorce, I text back well if hes not going to change his mind, its the only option and no point hanging around!

She contacted me first, I am not asking her for updates on him like I was, as no point now, he is nothing to do with me any more.

He didnt see daughter today, he has got dentist tomorrow (at the end of our road) and I did say last week that he could see her after that if he wanted, but that was before it all went tits up last Thursday. Surely he wont still think that stands? If he does, he will have to take her somewhere, he cant come in here! But if I dont hear from him I will just take her to toddlers as planned. He cant just expect things to happen, they have to be arranged. He can go fuck himself if he cant be arsed to arrange it.

QueenieLovesEels Wed 16-May-12 18:04:42

I think I would tell this friend to bugger off. Tell her you have made up your mind as to how you wish to progress the situation and her comments are neither helpful or wanted.

Outline that your marriage is strictly between your husband and yourself and you have had quite enough of her overbearing presence in your marriage.

Absolutely agree with your last statement.

dondon33 Wed 16-May-12 18:17:45

Small step by step moves forward Skye and you will get there.
Ah there's nothing wrong with your daughter wanting her blanket again, you're right it's probably just for comfort but if you keep everything around her as normal as possible she should soon settle back down again.
It's not your responsibility to maintain the relationship between father and daughter, it's his.

Tell the friends wife to piss off and stop poking her nose in, it's not her business.

tribpot Wed 16-May-12 19:31:02

Yes, I really really don't think it can be productive to discuss this with the friend. At best there is every chance she is sharing the content of the texts with your ex. And frankly she can't expect to be advising both of you, it wouldn't be fair on anyone. She chose to share thousands of texts with him so it seems pretty clear she's chosen him ... fine. But shut her out of your head, I don't think she will help.

AnyFucker Wed 16-May-12 19:31:27

skye, you are doing so well

I know it won't feel like it, but you are

I also saw you on another thread today, offering support to someone else and that is quite remarkable x

skyebluesapphire Wed 16-May-12 19:38:54

Thanks. I do appreciate the support I had here, like I said in the other thread, I know I chose not to take some of the advice, but I really had to go my own way. I am a stubborn person and I suppose I wanted to fight til the bitter end. At least now I know in my own mind that I could have done no more to save my marriage.

Even now I still cant help hoping that he will come back! How stupid is that :-(

I did feel sorry for the OP that I posted on and whilst Im sorry that anybody is in the same position as me, it helps to take my mind off my own problems by reading about everybody elses iykwim.

Dozer Wed 16-May-12 19:55:10

Skye, well done re solicitor and other positive steps.

Your PMS was not a factor in the problems. This was not your fault. You can't see all his flaws yet, but we can by his behaviour, he cannot cope with normal work, family, relationship, and has treated you both appallingly, not because you or your marriage wasn't right but because HE wasn't/isn't right (and you, loving him, let him treat you badly).

Please stop contact with the woman. Unhealthy.

It's telling that despite feeling terrible you are managing to care for DD and work, whereas he isn't earning and is pissing about. Don't count on getting money from him sad.

People who know more about these things, how might OP seek regular maintenance for DD?

AnyFucker Wed 16-May-12 19:57:48

hey, I think I called you "stubborn" a couple of times smile

but you are right, skye

I always defend MN when some people come on to say all the posters who say "leave the bastard" are marriage-wrecking harpies

no

I expect the people who ask for advice here to use what they find helpful, and discard the rest (thoughtfully, because posters use their own time to try and give different perspectives)

Dozer Wed 16-May-12 19:58:22

You are still sending messages to him (via OW) that you want him back. He thinks he can have you whenever he wants. This doesn't show devoltion, it devalues you in his eyes.

If you do really want him back (and you know MNetters views about that!), the only chance is surely to let him really, really believe he is losing you.

Anniegetyourgun Wed 16-May-12 20:10:29

Gosh, no-one could blame you for hoping. From what you say he's only been behaving like an arse for a few months, after years of being a good partner. You can't just switch off from that; you'd be a strange, cold fish if you could. However, you have to protect yourself and DD, which means acting on the assumption he is not coming back.

skyebluesapphire Wed 16-May-12 20:16:30

yes. I think I need to make an appointment with the solicitor for maybe the middle of June, the week after half term so I have childcare and go for it then... Its so soul destroying going down this road. I still just want to smack him round the head repeatedly til he sees sense!

But everything is different now anyway, the trust is gone for one thing because he hid all the contact with her and couldnt see he was doing anything wrong. I would always be fearing that he wasnt happy and would have to interrogate him on every single decision to be sure he wanted to do it and wasnt being walked over. Every single comment that came out of my mouth, I would be afraid would be too sarcastic. I would not be able to be myself, as that is the person he doesnt like any more. He suddenly wants town life after country life for 10 years. He needs to be able to work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week (although currently sat on his arse doing sod all...). So it would never work.

It would never work, It would never work. I just need to write that over and over like a school punishment and maybe just maybe I will start to believe it..

QueenieLovesEels Wed 16-May-12 20:22:53

You are doing really well.
You are an incredibly strong woman.
You just can't see it yet, but you are.
Well done you.x

nkf Wed 16-May-12 20:32:38

Just popped in to see how things are going. You are doing well, better than you realise. Well done.

tribpot Wed 16-May-12 20:39:51

And skye you realise in that nightmare scenario you paint above, the relationship is all still about him and whether you can please him enough to make him stay. He would hold all the power in the relationship. The power of leaving you again, of how damaging it would be for your dd to have him come back and go again, and how much you would strive to avoid that for her sake. It sounds kind of frightening. And certainly not a way to live.

Charbon Wed 16-May-12 20:52:36

Good to see you've been to the solicitors Skye and it was interesting to read that they thought this relationship with the friend's wife was unreasonable behaviour. Perhaps it took someone telling you that in real-life to take what we've been saying to you, seriously.

Which is why you must stop responding to this woman's texts. Everything you say will get back to your husband, either verbatim or twisted to suit her agenda. The next time she texts, reply: "Thanks for your concern. I've decided that it's best that we don't communicate for a while so please give me some space while I work things out for my daughter and I" - and don't respond to anything else she sends.

Dozer Wed 16-May-12 20:59:10

Skye, so he wants freedom "to work"? Well, he has more than enough time and space to work hard while you look after DD and deal with real-life, and work yourself. He can do as he wishes, subject to him having DD as agreed and being reliable for her. He can pursue his work and earn money, some of which you/she are due.

Let's see what he actually does.

skyebluesapphire Wed 16-May-12 21:43:18

so he just texted to ask if he could have daughter on sunday. i texted back - why dont we have a standing arrangement you pick her up at 10am, bring her back at 7pm after tea. I will let you know if I want to go swimming and meet you in XXXXXX.

Brief and to the point I thought, lol. He texted back, sounds good to me, thanks. grovelling little bastard.

QueenieLovesEels Wed 16-May-12 21:56:46

Now give her a bugger off text....... She will report right back.

That will get him reeling - that with the formalising of contact too.

Way to go.

midwife99 Wed 16-May-12 22:05:14

Great - now apply the same new found ice cold attitude to ow & tell her you don't wish to discuss your private life with her anymore & ask that she stops texting.

skyebluesapphire Wed 16-May-12 22:08:09

she texted me earlier, her and her female friend are off on a cruise in a fortnight. Her H works in a factory with set holiday shutdown times so he cant go away until half term and didnt want to go anyway, so shes off on a girlie holiday with her friend..... how nice for her!

I was a bit of a bitch earlier too and posted a video of my daughter on facebook, its her on the swing shouting I love you Mummy, I love you Mummy! Thought it might hurt him. What a bitch I am :-/ He put a like on it though....

AnyFucker Wed 16-May-12 22:10:20

your "friend" hates you

can't you see it ?

skyebluesapphire Wed 16-May-12 22:13:58

I think if I just dont reply to her, she will get the message and I mustnt text her any more either.

Got an awkward situation in August, got tickets to see Michael Macintyre, we booked ours, then they managed to get tickets next to us, so its her, her H and her friend going. and meant to be me and my H. Well I thought about just giving him the tickets and saying go, although for the man who never wants to go anywhere as we were out too much.... anyway, its a ticketless event, so I have to go with photo ID and credit card to get the ticket!!

So assuming I wont want to go with him and them!!!!!! If I go with a friend, we will have to sit next to them and my H will miss out.... Theres no other way of doing it as we live nearly 3 hours from the venue so its not like I can collect the tickets and pass them over is it?! I will have to see what happens in the next couple of months. Maybe I just wont go.

Just had a thought! Thank christ we didnt split last year as we saw Take That in May! I would have been gutted to miss that, lol.

midwife99 Wed 16-May-12 22:14:11

I agree she is a stirring bitch & you need to detach from her as well as ex. Unfriend him on FB.

tribpot Wed 16-May-12 22:39:06

I really really think you have to stop texting her.

I really really would not be that surprised to discover your ex goes with her on this cruise, mind - what with 'having no work on'. However, the reason I mention it is so you can be prepared for sporadic contact whilst she's away.

Re: the tickets, I assume there's an option to return them to the venue for resale? It's hardly Michael McIntyre's only gig, and I can't see why you would want to go with them - with or without your DH.

stuffitunderthebed Wed 16-May-12 22:55:13

I am proud of you sky! (Sorry if sound patronising, don't mean to ) in such a short space of time u are already beginning to 'wise up' and create the space for yourself that u need. Well done! You have thought about contact - and what suits you. You are forward thinking. You have opened your eyes to previously unthinkable horrible possibilities of the problems that husband's friend's wife presents... Well done you. Onwards and upwards my friend grin

Dozer Wed 16-May-12 23:17:35

Return the tickets. Is only a gig.

And do not go swimming with him and DD on sunday! (think said this waaaaaay back, is like deja vu).

tribpot Wed 16-May-12 23:27:23

Oh crap I didn't realise the swimming thing meant you would be going together. Bugger that for a game of soldiers.

skyebluesapphire Wed 16-May-12 23:31:18

No not swimming with him I don't mean that, it's just easier to meet him there if I want to go swimming otherwise he will come here snd I will follow him to the pool on the same road. It's at my convenience that's what I meant. I will not be doing anything as a family ever again (sadly)

skyebluesapphire Wed 16-May-12 23:33:42

And tickets are non refundable. But I will see nearer the time. I would rather waste them than go and feel uncomfortable. Plus you never know what might come out of the woodwork before then... I hope not though

skyebluesapphire Thu 17-May-12 15:47:10

Ok so now I'm all confused again and all of my own doing.... Had text from her I moaned about him not seeing daughter, she said it's nothing to do with her I need to speak to him as he thinks I'm calling the shots and he can't see her I said no I'm just trying not to organise the man who said I controlled him and left for him to contact me. She said u need to speak as saying different things. She said I'm pushing him into a divorce that he doesn't want, that he's still confused and doesn't know what he wants and that he doesn't want to ask me for time if I don't want to give it to him. All I ever did was stress he could have time!!! she said he keeps talking about what ifs and if we could have sorted it but all I did was push him.

Then he text me to say we need to talk u can text me and I said no u ring me. Then he told me to stop texting her as she doesn't want to be in the middle of it any more. So I text her to apologise and she said i had upset her when I blamed her for the end of my marriage snd all she had ever done was stand up for me.

He is going to ring me tonight to talk, but tonight there will be no elephant I will make sure of that , he talks about his feelings or we get nowhere.

Now I am confused to hell as is he........ but surely we have to be either sorting it out or separated! There is no in between is there where we are apart but he might change his mind?? That would kill me.

Please don't shout at me!!! All advice gratefully received...

Xales Thu 17-May-12 16:00:13

He and she are now both blaming you for hurting her feelings! Your H is more concerned that you are upsetting her than he is about how hurt you are.

What do you hope to gain from this telephone chat? I think you are just going to end up more hurt if you had it. I would not engage with him any more about your marriage right now.

I know everyone told you this on previous threads and you did your own thing which you thought was right however you are still letting this all hang over you and carry on in the hopes that he might change his mind. You have to stop sometime before it tears you apart.

I suggest sending him an email stating,

He has stated your relationship is over therefore divorce is the way forward as why the fuck should you stay married to someone who doesn't want to be in a relationship with you?

He has stated you are controlling, therefore would he please let you know his initial thoughts on the days and times he would like to see DD for her to continue a relationship with her father. So that you can come to an amicable compromise.

I would then add to tell him not to lie to people as you will happily correct them on that he has ended your marriage (even if you are now the one doing the divorce) etc. You have done nothing to be ashamed of.

They are both messing with your head. He is telling you one thing and she is telling you another because he is trying not to look like the bad party to anyone. It is a case of the 'I want out so if I am a nasty twat she will kick me out and then she looks like the bad one and I am the poor pathetic victim'.

Please stop engaging with the pair of them for your own good.

/hugs

Dozer Thu 17-May-12 18:29:11

Xales has good advice.

Stop stop stop the texting!

mrspepperpotty Thu 17-May-12 18:32:52

My advice is to go ahead with the conversation if you want to, but warn him at the beginning that you are there to discuss you and him, NOT her. If he brings her into the conversation, say 'I think it's confusing if we discuss her, it seems to cloud the issue for both of us, I have stopped texting her now and please don't mention her name again'.

Ask him to talk to you about contact with DD - is he happy with the current arrangement? Don't say anything about organising / controlling etc, just say 'I'd like to talk about your contact with DD, please tell me what you think'.

Ditto the divorce. Ask him straight out 'are you happy living apart or would you like to move back in?'. If he says he is happy living apart then say 'in that case, I intend to continue with divorce proceedings, but please remember it was your decision to move out'. (If he says he would like to move back in then that's a whole new curve ball! I honestly don't think it's likely though.)

Try not to have a 'but you said this' 'I thought you wanted that' 'I was trying to do this' conversation. Ask him how he is feeling NOW.

dondon33 Thu 17-May-12 19:01:50

Skye I can't stress enough that you NEED to remove this woman from your life and ASAP - even if she has done nothing wrong with your H she is revelling in the drama between you both. Anyway why is he telling HER this much info about being pushed into divorce, about how confused he is, about his what if's....he should be telling/discussing it with YOU. Someone else above already said it but he seems to care more about her feelings than yours Skye.
If you absolutely have to speak with him then mrspepper makes some good points to include as does xales Stay calm and cool and don't settle for any shite from him.
Good luck, hope it goes well xx

nkf Thu 17-May-12 19:03:18

I couldn't agree less with the last poster. I think your daughter needs some sense of stability so she needs to know when she is seeing him and for how long. That seems to me to be the pressing concern. Also, has he "remembered" to pay in money.

I wouldn't give him the chance to think divorce may or may not be up to him. Do you want to divorce him? That is the question.

nkf Thu 17-May-12 19:03:50

Sorry, by last poster, I meant Pepper. Xposting.

tribpot Thu 17-May-12 19:10:28

nkf, I can't see any fundamental differences of opinion in your post and mrspepper's?

Oogaballoo Thu 17-May-12 19:11:06

Sorry, but she is full of crap and acting like he is the victim and that he's being pushed into things by you. That isn't what's happening here- what's happening is that he has completely failed to take responsibility for his actions (leaving, saying he wants to separate) and instead the blame has been shifted to you for pressing him into things. He is dithering and needs to speak up on what he wants rather than making out that you are the one who has made this happen. It's pretty conniving to pretend that if only you'd given him the space and hadn't been firm this wouldn't be heading in the direction it is. I know this sounds rather strong but it's almost blackmail in a way- "Don't act like this, or I might not come back because you pushed me into this and wouldn't let me speak...I might have come back if you hadn't done that".

mrspepperpotty Thu 17-May-12 19:15:32

Yes, I agree DD needs a sense of stability, the two of you need to work out a contact arrangement and stick to it.

AnyFucker Thu 17-May-12 19:34:36

you are getting confused, skye, because you are not taking the good advice on your thread

the people here have no emotional connection to you, no ulterior motive, no agenda, no side

this woman and your H, however, have all that in spades

start listening to us, and to yourself

you sound like a dinghy on rough seas....thrown every which way by forces outside of your control

except you could take control, but seem strangely reluctant to do so

get your hand on that tiller....and throw the confounders (her and him) overboard

midwife99 Thu 17-May-12 19:42:50

FFS what the hell has it to do with that bloody woman?! She winds you up by interfering with your marriage, tells ex twunt you are upsetting her & then swans off on a cruise??!!!! Why will you not cut her out?! Has ex actually been honest at any point so far?! Why will he start now?

TheCrackFox Thu 17-May-12 19:46:15

I think the time has come to tell that woman to piss off. Your "d"h has grown too close to her and TBH she sounds manipulative and actually unpleasant. Delete her number now.

AnyFucker Thu 17-May-12 20:05:10

skye ain't listening right now

for some reason she thinks this woman is a conduit to her husband

despite all evidence to the contrary

skyebluesapphire Thu 17-May-12 20:33:03

It's ok, I'm not going to contact her again. I wish I hadn't today but at least it showed up the misunderstanding once again by my husband and me thinking different things about our daughter , each waiting for the other to make contact.

But I seriously will not contact her again

MadAboutHotChoc Thu 17-May-12 20:39:19

You don't know for sure that he misunderstood you...you only have this woman's word.

She has her own agenda and that is why I am pleased you will cut contact with her.

She is shit stirring, planting ideas in your head, manipulating you in order to fulfil her own agenda.

The fact that your H cares more about her feelings and views speaks volumes sad

stuffitunderthebed Thu 17-May-12 20:39:59

Good stuff. Can't believe she has run 'telling tales' to ur h. She has engineered all this and now playing martyr! She certainly wasn't complaining about being 'stuck in middle' when she was sauntering along the beach with YOUR husband and child whilst her poor hubby was at home with the bloody dog! Listen to the advice given; all very good. Do not be manipluated by these people who are kicking you when down. You turned yourself inside out to please him and try again. He wouldn't play ball and is just playing injured party now as he doesn't like to be (rightly so) cast as the villain.

Mumsyblouse Thu 17-May-12 20:40:42

Skye, whatever happens, your marriage woes will only be solved by you communicating with your husband. The fact that you are ending up with lots of different interpretations, from different people who should not even be in your marriage, is testament of things going wrong.

If you want to speak with him about your daughter, then do so.

He always has the choice to ring you and beg forgiveness for being do indecisive and make you an offer to return. He has not done this, but you are not stopping him.

skyebluesapphire Thu 17-May-12 20:50:32

Yes , it's very odd as he tells me it's over then tells them I won't give him the time he needs to sort himself out and he must realise that divorce us the only option if he doesn't want me?.!

I really don't get him any more. Still waiting for him to ring...

oikopolis Thu 17-May-12 20:59:49

It's not actually odd that you're hearing conflicting things. your H is simply telling you one thing, and telling other people something else.

your H wants to look like the good guy to his friends. so he is blaming you to them, and trying to make himself look good so they'll remain/be more sympathetic to him.

this is really quite ordinary, you hear about men doing this sort of thing all the time. my father did something v similar when he and my DM split up.

QueenieLovesEels Thu 17-May-12 21:09:32

Nobody asked her to be in the middle of your marriage.
She wedged her arse in there of her own accord.

She has been overly familiar not supportive. I think she has kept a very close eye on events to try and deflect attention away from the inappropriate 'text' relationship that developed between your husband and herself.

Every time you consult her on an aspect of your relationship you give over your power and are submissive to her. She is toying with you as a consequence.

Take back the power. Let her know she had no small part in your marital breakdown and it has not been support she has offered. Let her know she is not your friend.

Tell your husband if he has something to say about your relationship he should tell you and stop running off his mouth at all and sundry because it is disrespectful. Tell him he violates your privacy by doing this and if there is one more incident of this nature, all communications will cease unless through a solicitor.

You are not controlling at all. He is deeply manipulative. Analyse the behaviour. He sounds like an absolute shit.

QueenieLovesEels Thu 17-May-12 21:16:04

As For you pushing him into divorce....how about what you want? The fact that you don't and won't tolerate his shitty behaviour and as a CONSEQUENCE OF HIS BEHAVIOUR have made your decision- doesn't even seem to enter into her head. She has no respect for you.

skyebluesapphire Thu 17-May-12 23:21:46

Well, we talked for around an hour. We cleared up the misunderstanding over daughter and access and then I moved on to us and was he sure its what he wants. He said yes, his feelings havent changed, so I said well your friends wife has said this, this and this and your brother said this, and he said no way had he said that his head was fucked and he was unsure. I said ok then, so everybody is lying to me.. I asked him repeatedly if he was sure, that he didnt love me any more, that it was over and he said yes. I said well after what they have been saying I want to be sure that you are 100% sure that its what you want as if you need time you can have it, I always said that. He said nothing will make a difference.

He has finally accepted that it was wrong and inappropriate to text her so much, I pointed out that it was an emotional affair and that I only have his word for it that nothing happened and that 99 times out of 100 it always leads to an affair, so maybe his is the 1 time it hasnt...... I said I wished I had let him go in February when he first walked out, but it was such a shock as I didnt even know there was a problem, that I couldnt just let him walk away. I said that he should have thought about his daughter in all this, that he has really let her down by walking out when I didnt know anything was wrong even and that I can hold my head high knowing that I did everything I could to try and fix the marriage, even though I was always onto a loser. He said that he did try when he came back in February, and I said, yes but you were texting her hundreds of times a day which meant you werent thinking about me and concentrating on our relationship. He said oh you're never going to get past that are you?!

He said he doesnt see the point in getting divorced, its not what he was thinking when he walked away. I said well, you have said that you dont love me any more, you dont really like me as a person going by what you said in the letter, and you dont want to be married to me any more, so what the hell do you think is going to happen? I pointed out that its mental torture for me, to have the divorce hanging over us, when will we do it, 6 months time, 12 months, wait the 2 years? He said he just doesnt see the need if neither of us have anybody else. I said well I feel the need as if you dont want me, then its what has to happen. He did agree in the end. I also asked him not to run round telling everybody that he doesnt want a divorce, when he is the one who has walked out of the marriage.

So he finally seemed to understand that this is the final conclusion of HIS decision, the only route that I can take. I stressed that he can still change his mind at any point up to signing the papers..... But I know that he wont. So I think I need to go and see the solicitor this week and set things in motion..

Im scared now about finances, losing the house and everything else, but I dont see any other option as I dont think I could bear waiting the 2 years and then having to go through it all over again....

mrspepperpotty Fri 18-May-12 00:23:40

Hope you are ok, skye.

<holds hand>

midwife99 Fri 18-May-12 07:28:20

Oh honey I'm sorry but you must be relieved you now have it all clear. Will you now block all contact with OW?!! She is a big problem!

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 07:59:38

He is a disgrace. There is nothing he has done to save your marriage-just fed you a lot of lies. He has made no effort to reignite passion/love through hard work. He is a very shallow individual indeed.

I am still of the view there is probably a very good reason as to why he hasn't put any effort in and that it is OW shaped.

People can be very convincing when they are covering their tracks. It may well be he has been reflecting back the language he has been getting himself from this friend. He is possibly sitting tight and 'giving her space to work out what she wants'......

The divorce thing is weird and the only reason I can see that he wouldn't want to bother is to have a fallback option or to control you.

For someone who claims you are controlling he is incredibly so.

Divorce him and kick him into touch.

You will start to feel angry soon.

I think she has been lying to you to give you false hope so your focus is elsewhere and away from their relationship.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 18-May-12 08:17:45

Spot on Queenie

Op you sound like an intelligent woman and I am sure that with time and space you will realise what Queenie has said is right. Its so easy to blind yourself when you are still emotionally attached.

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 08:57:49

I have sent her one last text today to say that he is certain it's over and that he denies saying any different to them or his brother. I told her that I hope he is honest with them now as he tells me that no amount if time will make any difference. I said I won't contact her about him again.

I just feel sick, tired, got a stinking cold now, can't see how my life will ever improve, I'm scared I will lose the house as don't earn enough to get a mortgage on my own.

I don't see how I will ever meet anyone else as live in a very small town barely larger than a village, I'm overweight, (although have list 2 stone through loss of appetite since all this began). I am
Reasonably attractive and all my friends tell me that I'm a lovely person despite what he says but I was 30 when I met him. I find it hard to see how I'm ever going to meet anyone ever again to share my life with.

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 09:26:00

These are normal feelings and fears and they pass. Once you have the practicalities sorted out you will work through these feelings.

It is still very early days.

I think your view of yourself is very negative and may go someday to explaining why you have tolerated so much from this man.

I think the key is to give yourself time to heal and start enjoying pleasing yourself. The realisation that you are free to take your life in whatever direction you choose can be enormously liberating. When you no longer care about having a man and are happy in your own skin, it is often the case that suddenly you have all these options!

It is better that way too because you can choose wisely and for the right reasons rather than being with just someone who fills a gap.

You are going through a lot of changes and may well end up living somewhere completely different. It won't be long before life gets exciting again.

You need to start focussing on you now. Is there anything in life you want to do that you haven't done yet?

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 09:30:49

He threw it at me last night that I would never leave here and i said he had never asked me to. Just one more thing I am being hung for that i didn't even know was an issue.

My daughter starts school here in September so I wouldn't want to move now but I would have considered it if he had asked me . But I don't seriiously think it occurred to him until he moved out. It's just one more example of how he has changed.

He has changed and I haven't and it's me that's suffering

Abitwobblynow Fri 18-May-12 09:55:32

"He said yes, his feelings havent changed ... I asked him repeatedly if he was sure, that he didnt love me any more, that it was over and he said yes. I said well after what they have been saying I want to be sure that you are 100% sure that its what you want as if you need time you can have it, I always said that. He said nothing will make a difference."

Yes, I got told that too.
Here is the translation: my head is up my arse and my dick is buried deep on OW, she has all my attention and feelgood emotions and you are as much importance to me as the dustball under my bed. I am not interested in how you feel, what you think, how you hurt.
Because I am a good guy, this ALL has to be YOUR FAULT. Here are the reasons [ as you point out, ? ? ?]. And the ones I never mentioned, well you should have known.

Now, go away and leave me alone. Vanish in a puff of dust. But don't stop: looking after my house, caring for my children, and generally functioning to keep my life going so I can be free to do what I want. Do not be difficult and do things like, want a divorce, ask for £££ because that is inconvenient.

Sorry, but that is the direct translation.

When the fervour of OW fades, and the fantasy doesn't work any more, then you will get 'I made a mistake, it meant nothing, I never loved her, I never stopped loving you, lets make this work (but don't ask me to explain anything, or open myself up to you).

And that bit, I cannot get my head round. I would be grateful for any MN translations of THAT.

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 10:23:42

What he says doesn't matter.

He is full of tripe.

Ignore his nonsense.

You know it is over. You are only hurting yourself more by raking over this and you will achieve nothing but misery.

Stop punishing yourself by endlessly picking the scab. Show yourself some kindness.

So as I said, what about your dreams and ambitions? What have you always wanted to learn/explore? Where would you like to live in the world if you had total freedom to decide?

Now you have lost weight I bet you need some new clothes.....

It's time to redefine yourself on your terms.

The next time he calls and turns the conversation around to your relationship tell him you know what you need to know and have no need to discuss it further. If he insists on giving you his views tell him you couldn't give a rat's arse what he thinks. That should stop the twonk in his tracks.

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 10:43:27

we wont be having contact other than by text to arrange daughter's visits. Sundays are agreed, but in the week will depend on his work. He did say that if he doesnt finish early enough to pick her up from school then it wont be worth it as not enough time to go anywhere (this is because I said he cant come in the house). But even if he only had an hour or so, he could take her to the park, or down to the pub for some tea.

I have just rung the solicitor, he is calling me back, but I am going to get the divorce started as I really dont see the point in hanging around and prolonging the agony for myself any more. I could leave it and stick my head in the sand and hope it will go away, but life isnt like that.

I just feel so destroyed, I never ever thought it would come to this, my H was always such a kind loving man. His letter to me was so horrible, it really makes me blame myself for everything, the way I treated him etc, but I have to tell myself that if I didnt know he was unhappy what could I do and I was never nasty to him, never ever. I threw a couple of points in his letter at him last night, like "I have never felt appreciated". I said, never? what in 10 years? He said Ok, maybe I should have said recently... So I said Yes you should, just one more lie then isnt it....

Anniegetyourgun Fri 18-May-12 10:47:51

Abitwobbly, it means "I want normal service resumed as soon as possible". He never stopped loving himself, that's why he gave himself permission to have an affair. You're not supposed to ask questions or stop trusting him, any more than the sofa is supposed to object to being sat on.

Anniegetyourgun Fri 18-May-12 10:59:21

And Skye... very well done. I do agree that proceeding with the divorce is pretty much your only option, and what you said to his (not your!) friend is quite right. She kept texting you about he feels this, he wants/doesn't want that, when you never asked her to, and then complains she's piggy in the middle? Well then piggy, trot off back to your stye.

Posters have told you several times already that reinventing your relationship to make himself unhappy in retrospect and to portray you as indifferent/controlling/whatever is a standard technique of straying partners looking for an excuse. Any or all of it may be nonsense. Most of it probably does have a grain of truth (hence why you are agonising over it) but so distorted and exaggerated that it might as well be a complete lie. He just doesn't want to feel in his heart that he's the bad guy, but if he allows himself to remember you were a good wife he would know he was a very bad guy and that hurts.

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 11:01:45

Well done ref the divorce.

With respect to childcare prepare for disappointment and further hurt. He has his own life (which will take priority) and will use many excuses as to why he can't see her. Best to formalise it rather than have an open arrangement.

That will also help your child have a sense of routine and give him some firm boundaries.

The reason I asked about your individual dreams is your focus is still on what he is thinking and doing.

How is this helping you?

Proudnscary Fri 18-May-12 11:29:25

Huge apologies if this is unhelpful...but ARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH that you apologised to the other woman for texting/involving her!!

At the very, very best she is someone that has become far too involved in your marriage because she loves being at the centre of a 'drama'.

At worst - she is having an affair with your husband.

You apologise to her her?

Where is her apology, her shame, her accountability when it came to all those texts to your husband?

Even if there is no EA or sexual affair (hmm) - this was wrong. She must have known your husband was too invested in her unless she is labotomised.

I'm just so very angry at how you are being treated by these selfish bastards.

Agree with everyone above who says he is rewriting history, blaming you and trying to come out as the good guy - he wants out of the marriage 100%. But because you are instigating divorce after being pushed into a corner (despite the pain this is causing you) he is going round teling everyone it's you pushing that and is not what he wants!

I say this with love: PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF SWEET BABY JESUS DO NOT CONTACT THIS WOMAN AGAIN.

x

Tokamak Fri 18-May-12 11:35:50

His letter to me was so horrible, it really makes me blame myself for everything, the way I treated him etc,

As others have already said, this is a common strategy in people looking for a way out of a relationship. Blame the other person and they can feel less guilty about it. It's characteristic of both men AND women in this situation, it's not just a man thing.

You don't need to fret yourself, there was nothing you could have done.

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 11:49:11

I forgot to mention....when he had contact time and she and her friend came along and you were told the husband was dog sitting- who told you that?

Could the friend have been a cover and the husband was unaware of them meeting up?

It just seems really strange that on a contact day she and a friend attended. If it was all out in the open why did this friend come along? This doesn't make sense.

Why did he feel the need to invite them?

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 15:46:27

my daughter told me that the husband was looking after the dog. She is only 4. The wife and her friend had netball that morning, so thats why they were together. I presume it was prearranged as my husbands mother lives at the top of the hill, not in the town where the beach is, and usually he would go straight to her house. (never had time to walk on the beach or go to lunch when I was around..........).

I think the wife and her husband are away this weekend, going by what my H said a couple of weeks ago, obviously I dont know for sure as its none of my business now...

I rang the solicitor this morning and he hasnt rung me back :-(

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 15:49:43

I presume he doesnt like being on his own, that he prefers company even though its supposed to be his time with daughter. Of course if there is an EA there then he would want to see her all the time wouldnt he. He is certainly more concerned with her feelings than mine, although of course if he doesnt love me then I suppose hes not going to give a damn about my feelings is he...

I said to him last night you dont even like me and he said of course I like you and I said, not according to that letter you dont. According to that letter Im the most horrible person who walked the earth and then he said Now you're just being silly..... well he wrote it........

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 16:26:06

I bet the husband had no idea they were all meeting up without him. As far as he was aware his wife was meeting a friend for netball and going off for lunch together afterwards.

This may have been her introduction to your child.

You may need to consider there may be a bigger plan.

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 16:39:24

Also it is interesting that she had an introduction to your MIL.........

Might it be worthwhile to chat to MIL ? I'm thinking..... an acceptance speech to her over his new woman and conformation there is no bitterness and that she doesn't need to feel torn. Then onto valuing your relationship as women and looking forward to seeing her soon.

Mention your daughter has met her and seems fine about it.

She may let the cat out of the bag if she is in the loop.

Just an idea to help you achieve closure.

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 16:51:19

no he didnt take the wife and her friend to meet his mum, only my daughter.

my daughter has met them several times as he always takes her back to the house for a while, then they have been to the park together with the wife, husband, dog and friend sometimes. the wife has cooked tea for my daughter and also made cakes with her. Im not happy about it but cant stop it...

when I pointed out all the things that they took my husband on, shopping, meals out, breakfast in pubs after a hangover etc, the wife said to me that they lead a childless life, ie can do what they want when they want but she is sad because of their loss and would rather have a child to do things with. sometimes I wonder........

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 16:58:32

Oh I must have misread that.

The comments from her are quite concerning given the behaviour. Have you ever asked to see her phone for messages from your husband, or could you push her DH to have a look on the quiet by letting him know just how many messages were exchanged whilst your marriage disintegrated without your knowledge?

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 17:05:23

I did think about getting the husband to check her phone. she has iphone like us, so I know it would all be recorded as an ongoing conversation on there. When I managed to check my husbands there was only ever the last text on there.... so he was deleting them as he went which is again suspicious.

I think now I need to wait until divorce final, so it doesnt affect my settlement, dont want him turning nasty on me, then maybe give her husband a nudge.

I sold my old house and made 90K profit and then we bought current house together. Because I thought we would be together for ever (hollow laugh) we put the house in 50/50 as the solicitor said it was easier.... we had a mortgage of £120K on £185K purchase price, so I always said I paid for a third of the house, the difference of about £25K went on the stamp duty, solicitor fees etc, buying some furniture, carpetting and painting throughout before we moved in, paying off his loan of £8K and a couple of small overdrafts that we had. I managed to save £1K out of it for myself.

In the time we were together we converted the garage by taking a maternity break on our mortgage, then my parents had a policy come out which was money for me and that repaid the mortgage maternity break and fenced the garden and did the driveway. My gran gave us around £3K as well which we used to do the kitchen and put towards the car etc.

I know he paid the mortgage for 4 years after daughter was born, but I dont believe he deserves much out of the house. The solicitor says 20% max, maybe less if we can get away with it, he cant force the sale of the house so wont get it for 14 years anyway.

Proudnscary Fri 18-May-12 17:07:49

Oh God she wants your life. Anyway, disengage, ignore and disengage some more. Hope you are ok-ish x

Proudnscary Fri 18-May-12 17:09:51

X posted.

Ok great you are on top of finances and thinking straight - you are doing so well.

You just cannot trust this woman, not one iota, not now, not ever. I feel it in my very bones!

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 17:21:59

I want him to walk away with as little as possible, he never managed to save any money over the years, everything done to the house came from money that my family gave me. He could have painted the outside of the house himself, but we paid somebody to do it. we paid somebody to mow the lawn and clean the windows because he wouldnt do it.

people keep saying to me not to rush into divorce, that he may change his mind, but sad as I am , I know in my heart that it would never work without major changes and he is not prepared to make them, whilst I am. so it would never ever work and I told him that last night.

midwife99 Fri 18-May-12 17:34:50

You sound a completely different person - you hit the "no more shit" wall at last - well done & don't take any prisoners!

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 19:02:42

thanks, I am still very low, have cried several times again today. Its always difficult if I meet somebody who doesnt really know whats happened and when i tell them the first thing they say is "But you always seemed so happy, he's the last person in the world I would have said would do this, but you were the perfect couple" blah blah blah.

I am feeling like I am starting to get some control back into my life now (controlling bitch that I am, obviously!). I have got 3 nights out with friends coming up, cinema, drinks, meal. and some things planned to do with my daughter too, she has a friends birthday party tomorrow followed by a local garden fete, which we are going to with friends, so trying to keep busy and keep her happy. Took her to the local park today so she has had fun. On Sunday I will try and do some accounts work that I need to do, and then maybe try and relax and watch an hour of tv, something I havent really been able to do for weeks now. Its so ironic he said I watched too much tv, since he left its only been on for daughters programmes! My sky+ is full with unwatched stuff and Ive given up on the soaps.

Its like he took everything away from my, my appetite went and I've lost 2 stone, my enjoyment in reading books and watching tv has gone, he took all the enjoyment out of my life. So Im taking it back, going to see American Reunion with a good friend on Monday evening. Its supposed to be funny, so will hopefully make me feel much better.

Its his birthday next Sunday. Im not going to give him a card myself, but obviously daughter will have to. He gave me a box of Thorntons chocolates for my 40th birthday in March that I never got around to eating because of being ill and going on holiday, plus I was given around 4 large boxes of chocs and never had time to eat them all, still got 1 on the go now.... anyway, I'm going to give him the same box back, from daughter. So he gets a present from her and I dont have to spend any money! I have no idea what the ettiquette is over getting presents for your ex from your child?! do you or dont you?!

Dozer Fri 18-May-12 19:29:56

A card from her will be fine. But recycled choc quite inspired!

maras2 Fri 18-May-12 19:58:37

I know what to give him for his birthday pressie < DIVORCE PAPERS >.Sorry for shouting but he is a very bad person, so please take notice of all of us M'snetters and get rid of this creep.You and your DD deserve much better. Mx.

nkf Fri 18-May-12 20:11:32

Please plesae never ask him what he is feeling and thinking again. Please concentrate only on what you think and feel.

QueenieLovesEels Fri 18-May-12 20:20:17

Sit on chocs first! grin

Butterflygp Fri 18-May-12 20:30:57

My DH left me at Easter I got the old "I love you but I'm not in love with you" I was still am devastated we have two children our youngest being 16 months, I begged him to give things ago suggested how we could improve what I through was a good marriage, but in the end when I asked "is there any hope" he answerd no.

Looking back I'm starting to think that he may of done me a favour as he is going out acting like a child and not taking any responabletly for the kids.

And we all know what happens in the end to these kind of men.

Move on and be strong, you'll find happiness one day and be with someone that loves you 100 times more.

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 20:33:32

Butterflygp I am sorry that you are going through this too. My H is acting so out of character its unbelievable. I accept responsibility for some of the problems, a lot of which was down to stress, but he just wont and he says thats it and wont consider sorting it out.

I am very up and down, but need to consider that what I am doing now is for the best

stuffitunderthebed Fri 18-May-12 20:52:24

Love love love the recycled chocs idea and how assertive you are being. Well done skye

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 21:05:14

I am trying to regain some control and not sit around crying all the time for what has gone. Its never coming back and I need to accept that. I need to accept that its for the best too.

MadAboutHotChoc Fri 18-May-12 21:06:43

Yes, I would focus on rebuilding my life - friends, hobbies, work/training and treat myself to lots of nice things such as bubble baths, haircuts, new clothes etc. It will do so much for your self esteem.

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 21:24:15

I am digging out old clothes that stopped fitting, found some jeans and quite a few tops, feel better when Im wearing them. Saw somebody today I hadnt seen for ages and she commentated on the weight loss, so people can really see it. Its not a good way to lose it, but it is still good that I have.

Trying to stay so positive, but do struggle at times. Think Im still in shock really as still struggling to work out why this happened, cant stop thinking what if etc. But have to accept there was nothing I could have done if he didnt talk to me, and I have tried everything I could to fix it. The lady from the Childrens Centre said that I behaved perfectly through all this, that I am very strong, that I couldnt have handled it better, and she reminded me that I told her at least I can tell my daughter one day that I can hold my head up high knowing that I did everything I could to save my marriage and he wont be able to look her in the eye..

stuffitunderthebed Fri 18-May-12 21:32:55

You are doing so well. Honestly. Hard to recognise you as the same woman from your previous thread. You are behaving with complete dignity, you have done your absolute utmost to save your marriage, you have given him all the reassurances you can do. There is nothing, nothing more that you can do. And now you are approaching acceptance, making level headed financial decisions; whilst ensuring your dd maintains a relationship with her father. Well done. You have come a long long way in such a short time.

PooPooInMyToes Fri 18-May-12 22:10:51

So he originally left you just weeks before your 40th birthday!? Not great timing!

midwife99 Fri 18-May-12 22:14:28

Ignore his birthday. DD can make a card at nursery. He deserves nothing more.

skyebluesapphire Fri 18-May-12 22:57:56

His timing was fantastic, I was late sending out party invites so had just sent them out that week then he walked out. I remember crying at him how fucking fantastic his timing was, that I'd have to cancel my party. He said you can still have it, I said yeah sure celebrate the fact I'm 40 and my husband just left me?!! Twat! plus we had a holiday booked for the end if march for our daughters birthday and a trip to Peppa pig world followed by her party. We booked the holiday through The Sun and upgraded to a lodge from a caravan as a surprise for him , the same lodge we had stayed in previously, which of course I told him about when he said he was leaving .

I suppose I should be grateful that he came back and didn't ruin mine or daughters birthdays ........ He also took the day off on my birthday and took me out to lunch and we had a walk along a seafront. I was so grateful to him for doing that.... I thought he really cared...

I'm getting all sad again now as I really thought he was trying then and that it was going to work out:-( he admitted he was uncomfortable about going on holiday but that we had a good time " but then that's what you do on holiday, it doesn't mean anything" to quote him.

I feel like such a mug thinking we were so happy. We never had s problem in our sex life before he left the first time. When he first came back we made love every day for about 10 days in a row.... We made love literally right up to the evening he left. He couldn't get it up, I cried as I thought it meant he really didn't love me, he said he was confused , then that his feelings were gone, then he walked out for good.

Why am I reliving all this!!!

stuffitunderthebed Fri 18-May-12 23:21:45

Oh sweetheart. It really isn't your fault. His head is all over the place. You have done nothing wrong. He made a half hearted attempt to work things out - probably because of the timing. I can't say anything to make you feel better - only time will do that. But please, please stop torturing yourself. You did everything you could. You now need to continue to be resiliant and smart.

skyebluesapphire Sat 19-May-12 09:19:42

So yet another sleepless night with my daughter. She wakes up distressed every few hours wanting a cuddle or or blanket back on, asking when she will see Daddy. It breaks my heart. I've got a heavy cold and feel rough and so low.

I wake up every morning feeling ok until it all comes rushing back to me. Then I just feel sick and scared all over again and wonder how the hell my life came to this. Bastard I hate the bastard for doing this to us. I told him the other night that if he really cared about his daughter he would have told me when things started to go wrong.

I had bought him (before he left), a lovely birthday card saying happy birthday daddy, you are the best daddy in the world and so special etc. I have now bought another one that just says Happy birthday Dad and that's it. He doesn't deserve anything else. and it's bloody fathers day next month too. Bastard.

Have to go and shower her now and wash her hair. She hates me doing if as he always used to do it . (We don't have a bath).

mrspepperpotty Sat 19-May-12 09:48:55

Oh skye it's so unfair for you and DD to have to go through this. Have you got anything nice planned for today?

Proudnscary Sat 19-May-12 09:56:34

Feel for you so much, you are doing so well but your pain and sadness emanates from your posts. Hope you have a good weekend thanks

skyebluesapphire Sat 19-May-12 10:00:36

I am so sad, grieving for the man I thought I knew who is gone forever, grieving for my daughter who will grow up not knowing what family time is like, grieving for life as I knew it. I feel like I was living a lie as I had no idea that anything was wrong. I sit here crying because my life will never be the same again nor will hers

PooPooInMyToes Sat 19-May-12 10:38:43

What a way to remember your 40th! angry

Perhaps on your birthday next year when you are feeling better you could have the big celebration?

stuffitunderthebed Sat 19-May-12 11:10:53

Really hope you feel better later. Going out today?

midwife99 Sat 19-May-12 12:27:39

I know this seems impossible now but your life will be BETTER than it was before one day. You will look back & realise there was something missing even before ex kept leaving. You will meet a wonderful man who will make you realise how lacking ex was although you didn't know it at the time. DD will adjust & get fun dad not grumpy dad when she sees him & you will get some time to yourself. Meanwhile be kind to yourself & try not to torture yourself with analysing your marriage too much.

skyebluesapphire Sat 19-May-12 18:17:05

Well I have had a busy day with daughter, she had a birthday party this morning then we went to a local fete with my friend and her two daughters so my daughter has had a lovely day. Her behaviour was quite bad at one point and I ended up in tears. It didn't help that I kept remembering the last time I went was with husband.

Have since come home and been in tears again. Even though I know it's over I can't stop going over everything. It's doing my head in. I just can't cope a lot of the time, then at other times I am very strong.

I'm sure he will be telling everybody that he doesn't want a divorce which is ridiculous when he doesnt love me any more. It just makes me sound bad and divorce is the last thing I ever wanted!

I had the letter from the solicitors today which recaps our meeting, he has got it a bit wrong so I need to correct that but he urges me not to hang around as legal aid ends next April. Nit sure that I qualify though. It estimates 9 months for divorce... So that will be before my next birthday then....

Solicitor wants Facebook, email and mobile records along with marriage certificate and £340 for court fee. It also says he could get between 20 and 40% of the capital which could be as much as £38k. I don't see he should get that much no way, so need to suggest as little as possible.

ninah Sat 19-May-12 18:22:29

couple of things
you say your daughter won't know what family time is - of course she will, she still has a family. My dc and I are a family, no less than anyone else I know
two - stop crying in front of dd

Lizzabadger Sat 19-May-12 18:50:12

It's shit at the moment but it will get better.

If he's going around saying things that make you look bad then that's yet one more reason to be glad you are shot of the shithead him.

Be kind to yourself, cut your daughter some slack and, I agree with Ninah, save your crying till she's gone to bed.

lemonstartree Sat 19-May-12 19:05:33

grieving for my daughter who will grow up not knowing what family time is like

I'm so sorry you have been through this. You have been very strong and very brave.

I thought I would share something with you. My ExH was a drug addict and alcoholic. I stuck in our marriage for far too long, partly because I was afraid that our 3 ds would not have a father figure/know family life. But since I have left I realised that a) that was NOT a family life I wanted them to grow up in and b) they were happier without him at home.

I now have a wonderful, loving DP; who treats my ds' like his own, and they DO have a family life - one I am confident will/is benefiting them because there is a wonderful man as a 'father' and a happy relationship in the home....

I met DP when I was 45....

skyebluesapphire Sat 19-May-12 20:27:27

Thanks for the support, just having a low day again even though I try my hardest to stay positive. As soon as somebody new asks about it I have to go through it all again and get upset all over again. I know it will get better one day and I know it's early days . Councelling will hopefully help me to see that it's not my fault and there was nothing I could do if I didn't know the problem

emdelafield Sat 19-May-12 21:26:09

Hi Skyblue,

Firstly I am sorry you are having such an unhappy time but it will get slightly easier each day from now on until eventually the pain will no longer be acute and will ultimately disappear altogether.

I can relate to what you are saying about how upsetting it is to tell people anew. In a similar situation I have enlisted a close friend to "spread the word"and make it clear that I wanted people to know but I didn't feel up to talking about it.

This works for friends and aquaintances.With completely new people you can say as much or as little as you choose and you don't have to answer any questions if you don't want to.

Good luck with everything.

skyebluesapphire Sun 20-May-12 00:04:12

ok, so I cant stalk his facebook any more, lol. he finally changed his password yesterday as i couldnt get into it today and it said it had been changed. Good job I printed out the one chat on there between him and friends wife. My solicitor wants to see it....

izzyizin Sun 20-May-12 02:59:15

If you are seeing the knob at any time today, do not be drawn on the question of divorce - be non-committal and let it come as a surprise to him.

The same goes for the ow, the ow's dh, the bil, and Uncle Tom Cobley & all. At this stage of the game, no-one should know that you are either discussing divorce with a solicitor or intending to proceed with a petition.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 20-May-12 08:10:28

Hope you are feeling better this am.

What did the FB chat say? Anything incriminating?

skyebluesapphire Sun 20-May-12 08:36:38

The Facebook chat said

H oh I can't keep up with this tonight

W oh I can type so much quicker now

H yes it's easier isn't it, you can't get rid of me

W I don't want to get rid of you. I can see your happy smiling face now

H and I can see yours too

W you need to change your profile pic for a more recent one

H I always look awful in photos

W no you don't

H ok I'll try and find one

W quick go back to text , husband is coming

So this was 2 days before he moved out in feb, it indicates that her H didn't know they were texting which she told me he did.

There is also an email in which he calls her a very clever girl and another one in which she refers to him sending her motivational emails. In this email he tells her that everything will work out ok in the end. There is never anything lovey or sexy in it but it's all a bit flirty.

stuffitunderthebed Sun 20-May-12 08:45:48

I'm so sorry skye - that would tell me all I needed to know. STOP torturing yourself over your marriage ending and what you could have done or not done differently. SHE is the reason it has ended.

MadAboutHotChoc Sun 20-May-12 09:18:33

oh god...that is incriminating.

Can you now please believe that none of this is your fault and that your marriage ended because of the relationship your H has with this woman.

tribpot Sun 20-May-12 09:32:06

quick go back to text , husband is coming

Not an instant message that anyone who is married and respects their partner should be sending in my view. I have a lot of close guy friends, I chat with them quite a lot (not to the tune of 1200 texts a month mind you! That is not normal) and I would never ever say something like that.

Skye - you seem to think the problem was, he didn't tell you he was unhappy so you could fix it. You're not the project manager of your marriage with him as the customer. He chose to walk away, you didn't push him. Whatever he would like you to believe.

I find the 'divorce: it's just a piece of paper' thing completely cowardly and disrespectful as well. Why shouldn't you want to move on with your life? Be free to meet someone else when the time is right? (Which I fully appreciate is not now!) And with the door shutting on Legal Aid it makes no sense not to get proceedings under way now. He wants to walk away with no consequences, as he's done when he's walked out on jobs in the past.

Leverette Sun 20-May-12 09:32:14

What a pair of two-faced, deceitful lowlifes.

Hold your head up high and stay strong. You are doing bloody brilliantly.

Get that divorce petition sorted.

hugs and thanks to you.

skyebluesapphire Sun 20-May-12 10:21:01

he knows that Im going to start divorce as after I had text from her saying that I was pushing him into a divorce he doesnt want...... bit rich seeing as he walked out on us....... we discussed it and I told him that I have to do it, if he doesnt love me any more, then its the only logical conclusion. obviously he doesnt know exactly when Im going to do it or on what grounds. solicitor said that inappropriate contact with another woman will definitely be part of unreasonable behaviour.

he just picked daughter up and I had all her stuff outside the door ready again and didnt speak to him or even look at him. he looks like he is trying to be friendly, but no chance. How can you be friendly with somebody who has ripped out your heart, stamped all over it, then torn it into little pieces and danced all over it.........

stuffitunderthebed Sun 20-May-12 10:23:44

Exactly skye. He has a bloody cheek!

ThePinkPussycat Sun 20-May-12 10:34:46

skye things have moved on a bit since I last read your thread properly. I know what you mean about having to keep explaining the situation when you see people - except in my case this took the form of a loud rant blush. Luckily this sorted out who were the closest friends, it also led to me becoming a bit of a recluse to avoid starting to explain and turning into a rant.

Re divorce and finances, keep in mind that the main purpose of a settlement is to support DC, and enable both exes to move on with their lives.

Keep strong, and remember, it's OK to cry. Crying is healing.

Leverette Sun 20-May-12 10:36:14

He's trying to be friendly for his own benefit - to help maintain his delusion that he isn't a dishonest shit.

I am not advising you here - but I know that i would be going to visit her and her husband with a copy of the FB conversation. I would be making sure, in an icy fury, that they knew this seedy relationship was out in the cold light of day.

skyebluesapphire Sun 20-May-12 10:48:57

I thought about putting snippets on my facebook status lol, tagging them and her husband in it. But my H doesnt know that I have this, I hadnt mentioned it as didnt want him changing his facebook password, but now he has done that anyway I have nothing to lose. BUT I also dont want it to affect the divorce, I dont want him going arsy on me. Really cant decide what to do for the best. My solicitor wants a copy of it.

ThePinkPussycat Sun 20-May-12 10:52:16

Give your solicitor a copy. It's up to you whether you actually use it.

FGS don't put snippets on fb.

Hugs and brew

Leverette Sun 20-May-12 10:56:46

I guess I take the view that I wouldn't want to be part of keeping their little 'secret' and helping protect her as a result.

They both obviously have massive issues about responsibility - maybe its time for them to learn that actions have consequences. I would feel a moral obligation to inform her DH tbh, in a calm, dignified way.

tribpot Sun 20-May-12 11:00:23

Agreed. Informing the husband of the detail of these conversations is one thing but putting bits up on Facebook - whilst extremely tempting (not to mention amusing) will backfire.

HandMadeTail Sun 20-May-12 11:04:57

My instinct is that you shouldn't do the classic "wronged wife" routine. Don't go to the OW and her H with the FB chat. Keep it as evidence for the divorce.

I wonder if OW is now panicked, as her behaviour will now be made known to her H, which is why she is so anti your divorce.

Well, good, then!

midwife99 Sun 20-May-12 11:36:11

Unfriend both on FB, do not put snippets on & keep it for the legal process

izzyizin Sun 20-May-12 12:38:24

Ever since he left you've run around like a headless chicken trying to find out what's going on in his head, pumping the ow for info, endeavouring to win him back, spending hours analysing his various conversations with, and missives to, you.

Phoning your bil to say goodbye? What was that about? You aren't going anywhere and neither is he.

And even though you've been told repeatedly to cease all contact with ow 'cos she ain't no friend of yours, up until a day or so ago you were still communicating with her.

All of those futile activites stop IMMEDIATELY. Henceforth any enquiry from ANYONE as to whether you intend to divorce the cowardly twat will be met with the official line 'I'm considering my options' - and no more than that.

You've mentioned that "I have always been a great believer in destiny and what is meant to be will be". Now it's time to prove it - and to give destiny a shove in the right direction by exercising a bit of subtle and well-considered control freakery.

Make no mistake; after your frenzy of continual communicataion, blanking him and her at this point will freak them out and it's in your best interests for them not to know what you're up to because if you start broadcasting the fact that you have instructed a solicitor, she may urge him to seek legal advice and get in first in the divorce stakes.

Play it cool. Make like you haven't sought legal counsel. And start getting your ducks in a row. Give your solicitor everything that's required and get them started on your draft petition which will make mention of his unreasonable 2000+ texts per month to an ow.

She won't be named as the ow but that's neither here nor there because, once you know that your petition is in the post to him, you will have opportunity to write to the ow and separately to her h giving your apologies if either of them is upset by mention of her activities with your h but that obviously you can only act on your solicitor's advice as to your grounds for divorce.

I see no reason why a transcript of the 'conversation' you've mentioned earlier between your h & the ow shouldn't accidentally be attached to any letter of apology you may decide to write to the h. In fact, it may be necessary for you to phone him shortly after receipt to apologise verbally for your oversight which will give you opportunity to twist the knife express your own surprise at the number of texts they exchanged.

As for the forthcoming gig; I'd have no compunction about going - preferably with a stunning male by my side - with my head held high to see if they turn up together and to drop her in it some more but I'm an avid fan of Machiavelli and my weapon of choice in these situations is poison administered slowly under cover of a charming and lighthearted demeanour.

The effect to aim for is that, as far as anyone can tell, you've 'risen above it' admirably while making sure that your opponents' noses are well and truly rubbed in it.

skyebluesapphire Sun 20-May-12 15:39:45

just boxed up some more of his stuff that I found, his shower gel was still in the shower! and a few more books, cd's etc. his old family photos. havent put in any of ours, dont see why he would want any pics of us as a happy loving laughing family. He can ask if he wants any of her baby pics etc, I can let him have a cd. I did put in a professional picture of us that was taken in October and we are both happy and smiling and it looks real too, not forced smiles, although I do look very tired in it, looking at it now. I put in the picture of him holding her the day that she was born. It breaks my heart to look at it. I did put it in her bedroom, but she took it back into the lounge again, so he can have it.

I dont suppose he will want our wedding video or any wedding photos.......

I put in all of his accounts folders for last year too, he can pay an accountant hundreds of pounds to sort it all out now, there is no way Im going to do it and it simply wouldnt be appropriate anyway for me to be dealing with his accounts!

Admiraltea Sun 20-May-12 16:06:37

You are doing so well.
During "the talk" this evening PLEASE do not give out ANY information regarding solicitor and divorce.

It is very important that you keep this information very close.

And kudos for putting in the account folders!

nkf Sun 20-May-12 16:18:32

Do you have details of the figures in the account though?

Admiraltea Sun 20-May-12 16:23:53

So sorry skye blue....cross posting ref "the talk" !!
Am so worried though that you will give him power through too much information...
I know it sounds paranoid but I really do get concerned that you may, through trying to be reasonable, end up getting even more used than already looks likely.
As Izzy said so well...retain the power...you get to choose now.
Some motivational music to dance around the kitchen accidentally tread on some stuff may lift the mood.

nkf Sun 20-May-12 17:02:32

Do you have to talk to him? Apart from arrangements regarding your daughter?

skyebluesapphire Sun 20-May-12 17:07:48

yeah his accounts are still in my computer, so I can see what they were. It really pisses me off, because I put wages through for myself as I wouldnt use up my personal allowance, to save him 9% tax on that amount, so I now have to pay tax on all my self employed earnings, probably around £1200! At the moment while he is paying into the joint account I am syphoning some off to pay towards it, but will also want it written into any divorce settlement that he should pay that tax for me! Also, I shoot myself in the foot over financial settlement as his profit will be around £7500 less ! so I could get less maintenance if we had to go official over it. It was all done as a joint thing, to save money overall, you know, like you do when you are a happily married couple!!!

I dont know how much to ask him for. At the moment he is still paying in the £250 a week that he has always paid in. That wont go on forever, indeed my solicitor has said that his solicitor will advise him to stop paying that immediately. My friend gets £60 per week for 2 kids. My neighbour gets £125 per week for 3 kids.

I was going to ask him for £100 per week, but think this is probably too high.... Then I thought maybe £60 a week? She eats a lot, lol. and come September starts school full time, so I will have all the uniform to buy and you know how kids get through shoes and Clarks are £30 a time! then there will be after school activities, Im not one for running around and we couldnt afford much anyway so she wasnt going to do much anyway, but I did at least want her to have swimming lessons at some point soon.

Any thoughts on maintenance anyone??

skyebluesapphire Sun 20-May-12 17:12:02

No, Im not talking to him at all after the other night, there is no point. i dont even speak to him when he picks up/drops off. I want his key back, so will have to text him about that too (have just done that , saying can he put it in daughters bag for me please).

I think my words the other night were - I will start the ball rolling on the divorce then.....

I have emailed my solicitor today to amend some points that he had wrong in our meeting notes and said that I need to meet with him to start divorce proceedings asap.

midwife99 Sun 20-May-12 17:46:51

Child maintenance is usually 15% of income for 1 child so will that help you to work it out?

wiseoldowl Sun 20-May-12 17:50:37

Skye,
just caught up on your thread and so sorry for what you are going through but have to say I think it is starting to come clear for you. Keep strong.
I second everything Izzy said. Focus on you & DD only, don' waste any more emotions on wandering what they are up to etc.

I too had a copy of an e-mail sent by OW to a friend (i remain friends with OW's husband), the e-mail laughed at her breaking up my 25 year marriage & stated that they were working out how to 'stitch me up' financially. I gave this to my solicitor but have never mentioned it to XH ..or spoken to him in 11 months & I do feel that this has a) kept him guessing as to whats going on as I'm sure he would have expected me to have played dirty by now & b) made me stronger and more able to 'cut loose'.

My financials are due shortly, & please note IME its not about how long you've been married, what you contributed, its just about do you & XH have enough money to be able to provide reasonable homes (lol my xh is already living in a house provided for by her XH) for DC (my XH divorced me for 'unreasonable behaviour BTW...before I got to do him first for adultery. same difference, divorce is divorce).

Revenge is a dish best served cold and one day, just one day I will make a better life for myself & DS while those 2 will live to regret it, of that I'm sure.

Skye you have been strong, there are certainly lots of ups & downs to come believe me. You will have setbacks,duvet days but you can & you will come through it for yourself & your DD, I promise you. Be strong.

wiseoldowl Sun 20-May-12 17:51:45

oh, maintenance btw 15% of net income for 1 child is what I have been quoted. more if more dcs.

wiseoldowl Sun 20-May-12 17:52:33

sorry, x post with midwife

Admiraltea Sun 20-May-12 17:56:55

CSA rough guide 15% 1 child, 20% 2 children, 25% 3 or more. can deduct for time spent with other parent e.g weekend per fortnight = 1/7th off.
Though is much much easier if PAYE as can attach an order to earnings if necessary.
Percentage is on net income. Which is where non PAYE can be extremely creative.
And court orders are fab if adhered to and a complete pain in ass and wallet if not. My county council estimated maintenance outstanding in area as £32 million ...and they cough us the taxpayer are picking up the pieces.
As much up front as poss and if at all poss beg and borrow to make house your own otherwise he will get percentage of all uplift if/when economy alters.

midwife99 Sun 20-May-12 17:58:38

Non resident parent can only claim money off if child stays overnight more than 1 night a week so one weekend a fortnight would NOT entitle him to 1/7th off.

Admiraltea Mon 21-May-12 04:02:40

mine argued that he had them for an extra 5 days when I was in hospital and had them for some bank holidays...so yes you are correct but I still lose 1/7th ...very easy to go over if you ever let them actually holiday with their dad or are ever ill.

PooPooInMyToes Mon 21-May-12 15:47:13

That conversation between them is shocking in its flirtation! The quick back to texting comment is blatantly showing they are or were up to something. Even if it hadn't reached the sexual stage.

Keep an extra copy of that. Once the divorce is sorted out a bit more i would show it to her husband along with the phone records.

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 00:44:15

The above fb convo was just 2 days before he walked out the first time. It shows that his thoughts lay elsewhere at that point and that she was making him feel good.

I have struggled today with wanting to text her and his brother to see how he is and what he is saying, but I didn't give in, I didn't text either of them.

I went to the cinema tonight, with my friend, to see American Reunion. It was really funny but I ended up in tears afterwards which was really silly , then we went to McDonald's and I cried because I last went there with him! How pathetic am I?

I know it's over and I know it would never work but still can't help but hold a thought that he is having s breakdown or something! Stupid I know. Have to accept that he is never coming back. I need to get a grip!!!

izzyizin Tue 22-May-12 01:05:26

Of course he's not having a breakdown. He's merely running true to form in that this is what he's like, this is what he does.

If you'd posted here when he first ran away to be with the ow left the marital home and had acted on the advice you'd have received - which would not have varied from that given on your earlier thread - he'd have been back with his tail between his legs by now.

Repeat the mantra: DON'T text her, don't text him, don't text the bil - and repeat ad infinitum until not texting them becomes second nature.

PooPooInMyToes Tue 22-May-12 08:10:36

You must not text her. His brother i see no problem about staying in touch with.

But having seen that conversation between them i am shocked that you have been discussing your marriage with her. She has hugely betrayed you! The sneaky little Bitch! She's trying to cover her own arse by being friendly to you these last weeks but what they did hugely points to an affair, even if it never reached the sexual stage. It was totally inappropriate and i am sure she would do anything to stop her husband seeing it. And there is a reason for that, because it is blatantly obvious from what is written that they were at least having an emotional affair.

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 08:37:18

Her husband will see it one day definitely. I would like to show him now but don't wont to rock the boat until the house and mortgage are settled.

It proves that he didn't know at that time.

I'm just so mixed up as to whether they actually had an affair or not

izzyizin Tue 22-May-12 08:43:36

Having read that exchange between them, only the extremely guillible would believe that they've been under the same roof since February? or thereabouts, and haven't engaged in a shagfest when the dh's back has been turned.

midwife99 Tue 22-May-12 11:25:25

Yeah sorry I agree - that text exchange is damning evidence of something to hide. Whatever that was - it was still a secret which means it was wrong.

PooPooInMyToes Tue 22-May-12 11:58:53

I think you are extremely tolerant op. A lot of people would have gone ballistic at first site of that conversation, yet this whole time you have given them the benefit of the doubt, have been happily prepared to take him back and have been conversing with her.

What did your solicitor say about it?

Im glad to hear that the husband will be seeing the conversation one day. Poor bloke.

QueenieLovesEels Tue 22-May-12 12:28:02

I don't see why confronting her husband with the evidence will have any bearing on your financial settlement. Your DH shows no signs of any care and consideration towards you. His actions have been totally self-serving. So will be his mindset when it comes to the financial settlement.

He has been telling himself for weeks and attempting to con you, that the marriage broke down because of your 'failings'. He will show no mercy when it comes to the settlement because he isn't feeling guilty.

I think the two of them are having a full blown affair and once the settlement is done, she will move out with him. Then it will be lots of excuses such as 'we only got together after you split' and 'neither of us meant for this to happen' etc. It will all be bollocks of course.

I think she is being nice and supportive so you are kept in place and don't upset things their end.

Tell the other husband and let them ( ow and DH)deal with the fallout inconveniently-just as you have had to.
You will be showing a kindness to the other chap too because at the moment he is not in a position to make an informed choice about his relationship.

Imagine the situation reversed and that she was under your roof and the husband she had left had information suggesting they were having an affair. How horrible would it be if you didn't find out for some time and you were allowing it to go on under your nose?

You need to do the right thing here.

Doha Tue 22-May-12 12:44:04

I think you have to do the right thing by the OW husband-he does have the right to know and make an informed choice, what he does with this informatioon is his choice. Don't let him be blindsided as you were.

Perhaps you can contact the OW husband and let him know that you have proof of an inappropriate relationship between the OW and your H. Tell him he can have access to the information if he wants but also say that they will deny it if confronted.
You could also add that the information is already in the hands of your solicitor (if even just to prove that it exists).

As previously said what happens therafter is out of your hands.
At least your conscience will be clear about keeping quiet.

izzyizin Tue 22-May-12 13:34:02

I have laid out a scenario whereby the ow's dh can be appraised of his dw's clandestine 'conversations' with your h without it appearing that you are motivated by vindictiveness, and the time for enlightening the ow's dh is very definitely not now.

Let the dust settle from your recent frenzied communications with your h and the ow and wait until your divorce petition has been drafted and is in the post before you break the news to the cuckold in a manner that will leave you basking in the rosy glow of altruism.

If he doesn't know what's been going on behind his back it won't hurt him to wait a bit longer - and there's always the possibility that he may come home unexpectedly make his own discovery in the interim.

Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey, honey. If you proceed with caution I have no doubt that the ow's dh will blow a gasket when he discovers the extent of his dw's and his dear friend's duplicity.

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 16:23:01

the facebook exchange was 2 days before he moved out first at the end of February, a week prior to that there is a mobile phone conversation of over an hour. But he first gave her a lift to Uni at around the end of January, and it was during February that he gave her a couple more lifts to Uni. This was all prior to him moving out the first time.

He has now been staying with them since 8 April.

I have tried to be tolerant and give them the benefit of the doubt for several reasons:

1. Because of the fact that H and her H have been friends for well over 30 years.

2. Because he was living in their house.

3. Because I knew my husband and it wasnt something he would do.

4. Because of the history of the stillborn baby I knew she was messed up.

5. She was very helpful and supportive to me, told me things that my husband was saying that helped me talk to him.

6. She was very critical of him for leaving me and daughter especially.

7. She seemed to think he was going through a MLC and would come out of it.

Reasons why I doubted them:

1. The first time I was suspicious was when he had an email from her, in which he says to her - You are a very clever girl to know so much - It just set alarm bells ringing in my head that the tone was flirty.

2. When I read the facebook chat I was horrified, at "I can see your cheeky little face" and I can see yours - comments

3. The facebook chat says - go back to text H coming, which indicates he didnt know they were texting

4. Finding the facebook chat led me to look at the mobile phone records and I now have printouts of a ream of paper nearly, showing all the texts to her.

5. I then discovered another email , in which she refers to him sending her motivational emails, and he tells her that everything will work out ok in the end.

6. Every single person that I told about the texts thought that there must be an affair going on.....

I am so bloody confused..............

midwife99 Tue 22-May-12 16:29:54

It doesn't really matter now though. Your marriage is over. He's being a complete jerk anyway! It's just more reason to break off contact with all 3 of them. Her husband will find out if they're having an affair soon enough! Try not to focus on what did or didn't happen. Just get on with your life with DD now.

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 22-May-12 16:32:47

1. Because of the fact that H and her H have been friends for well over 30 years. So? My H had an affair with someone he knew for over 30 years too, we were friends with her husband. Many have affairs with a friend's spouse or mutual friend.

2. Because he was living in their house. So? They would have become pretty close and there would have been even more opportunities to get up to no good.

3. Because I knew my husband and it wasnt something he would do. Many many spouses say that - I never dreamt my H would do this either.

4. Because of the history of the stillborn baby I knew she was messed up. So she was even more open to the idea of having an affair...as a coping mechanism or an escape?

5. She was very helpful and supportive to me, told me things that my husband was saying that helped me talk to him. Yes, so that she can manipulate things to suit her agenda.

6. She was very critical of him for leaving me and daughter especially. Probably cos she wasn't ready to move onto the next step and was happy the way things were. Also she could be trying to deflect any suspicions coming her way.

7. She seemed to think he was going through a MLC and would come out of it. Again, propaganda to deflect suspicions of an affair.

izzyizin Tue 22-May-12 16:34:47

What is there to be confused about?

Whatever way you look at it, simply by the manner of his leaving he's done the dirty on you and that's all you need to know.

Whether he's got his leg over with the ow is incidental as, regardless of whether they've been at it like rabbits, she won't be named in your divorce petition.

Because I knew my husband and it wasnt something he would do On a point of clarification, given his recent behaviour, you have no way of knowing what he may have done, or what he may do.

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 17:35:16

I know, you are right there. The man I am dealing with now is no longer the man I married. I don't recognise this man any more. He is the one who has changed, not me. As I have no proof of actual adultery then no, I cant name her in my divorce petition. I am seeing the solicitor on Thursday, I think we then send a letter to my H, not sure what it says/does, then we draft a divorce petition.

I have unfortunately pissed him off today. I posted on facebook that I had another sleepless night with daughter, then my friend posted was she ok for school and I said she just wouldnt settle, came in with me in the end trouble is she is insecure since her dad left, keeps thinking that Im going to disappear too, then my friend said hate to see her so emotional all the time, shes not the girl that we once knew. then another friend said sorry to hear you have split up and I then replied, yes sadly he walked out as he doesnt want to be with us any more.

He has then today deactivated his facebook account again! He could have unfriended me or blocked me, but he deactivated his whole account. I didnt rant and rave on there, I just answered a friends comment with a statement of fact?!

I guess the truth hurts........

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 17:42:48

The wife will be going on a weeks cruise any day now... It would be the perfect time to tell the husband.... he could pack the rest of her stuff and throw her out, lol. Trouble is, if he throws the pair of them out, it also throws them together possibly and they could end up moving in together as both stuck. Trying to avoid forcing that scenario.

Dont want her H to be a cuckold, but like you say, if anything going on, it will come out at some point as these things always do. In a way I wish there was something definitely going on as at least it would all make absolute sense to me then, more than it does now.

and I would feel the anger more than I am now, and stop making excuses for his behaviour....

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 22-May-12 18:01:33

When are you or DD expecting to see him again? Just wondering if the deactivation of his FB account is linked to the cruise and if he is going with her.....

PooPooInMyToes Tue 22-May-12 19:11:02

If only there was a way of finding out for sure.

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 19:19:24

No she is definitely going with her friend, as her friend has posted about it on facebook too. Although my H did get his passport renewed a couple of weeks ago for work purposes..... BUT seriously, she is going with her friend, not him.

he has deactivated the facebook simply because I put the truth on it and it wasnt a rant aimed at him, just a truthful answer to my friends question

tribpot Tue 22-May-12 19:26:15

Walking away is what he does, skye. From jobs, from marriage, from bloody Facebook.

I'm still convinced he's going on this cruise. Friend is already colluding in the relationship - she's the same one who provided an alibi when they took your dd out and the H stayed home with the dog? This is a totally true story: two friends of mine were having an affair (he was the best friend of the woman's husband) and they decided to go away for a week together, ostensibly so she could revise for an exam or something. To Barcelona. Noted for having no distractions from revising. Anyway, they wanted me and my DH to go with them basically to provide cover that this really was just a 'friends' holiday'. I refused. They still went. Her parents were going apeshit at the idea of her having gone away with a male friend for a week (who clearly had feelings for her, recently separated from wife, etc etc) and the H still believed nothing was happening.

By the time they got back, the shit had hit the fan and everyone knew they were on holiday together so the wife was forced to confess. She pretended they'd had a fling solely in Barcelona and I was left to tell the H that no, it'd been going on since a month after his wedding.

As such, I really want to know if you're going to see your ex whilst this cruise is going on. Deactivating his account means he can't be tagged in any of her photos.

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 19:31:28

But I think that her H might notice if my H is not around at the same time as she goes on holiday, lol.

It must be next week I should think, her and her friend said 12 days and counting and that was on 16 May.

tribpot Tue 22-May-12 19:32:15

Sure but you don't know what they've told him. The H in my story knew fine well his wife was going away with another man.

Dozer Tue 22-May-12 19:34:38

I know someone whos husband was having an affair, he and the OW deliberately got their partners to book a holiday at the same resort, where they engineered to seem to make friends as couples, so the unenlightened partners chatted innocently, enjoyed the holiday etc, whilst the cheaters had assignations. Horrible.

She later found out, but took him back sad.

Setting aside the OW issue, how're you doing Skyebluesapphire?

QueenieLovesEels Tue 22-May-12 19:52:40

Erm.....I wonder if he is going to be away 'working' next week?

QueenieLovesEels Tue 22-May-12 19:54:44

You know if you let the husband know he might be able to uncover more his end and then you will have the solid proof you need to be able to move on from this.

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 19:58:42

Im not doing good. Im trying hard, but still cant stop going over and over everything in my head. Everybody I talk too says it sounds like theres somebody else......... Its just doing my head in. I cant stop crying all the time. My friend came over earlier and she said I know its not easy, but you have to forget him, stop looking back and only look forward.

I cant concentrate on my work, Ive got so much to do again and just cant find the whatever to do it. I spend every evening on the computer, talking to friends on facebook.

I feel so lonely, I feel so lost without him. Somebody told me something earlier and I thought ooh I must tell him that later, before remembering a split second later that things arent like that any more.

Im so confused as to whether they are having an affair or not. Im seeing the solicitor on Thursday to start a divorce I dont want. I still have this insane hope that he is going to see sense and come back, despite the fact that it is so obviously over.

I seem really strong to other people at times, then cant stop breaking down over it all.

I hate my life, I hate what its become, I never wanted this, I had no choice in the matter, I had no warning that it was going to end until he walked out. I stood no chance ever of putting it right. I hate myself for driving him away, for being so horrible that he couldnt stay. But then I know that everything he said was probably just excuses to be able to transfer the blame to me, when I am able to think rationally.

I hate the fact that I am so out of control. (controlling bitch that I am......)

MadAboutHotChoc Tue 22-May-12 20:06:21

Aww it must be really hard - remember that you have had a short time to process all this unlike your H who has been planning and thinking about it for ages and ages.

Be kind to yourself - get signed off work if necessary. Keep leaning on your friends and family.

When I was going through this I found that doing little things like going for a walk in the sunshine, having coffee in town, a bubble bath, a hair cut, buying a clothes and make up etc really helped.

PooPooInMyToes Tue 22-May-12 20:28:57

Yes you are right, its just excuses. He's walked away because he chose to. Its nothing you did sad

You were also perfectly within your rights to put what you did on Facebook. Like you say you weren't slagging him off you were just answering questions.

Its strange how hes so sure of this yet doesn't seem to want others to know.

Xales Tue 22-May-12 20:34:16

You have been fighting for your marriage since he walked out. He left the marriage when he first walked out in Jan/Feb.

He is a long way ahead of you in his head and heart.

Just give yourself time to grieve and mourn what you have lost. /hugs

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 20:42:21

I just wish I could stop crying all the time. Maybe this is where the doctor can help me....... I ought to find the local pot dealer, then I could just sit around and smoke myself happy, lol. would probably put back on all the weight Ive lost though if I got the munchies!

see I do still have a sense of humour.....

PooPooInMyToes Tue 22-May-12 20:48:27

I think sometimes these things need to be cried out. Probably best not to bottle it up anyway. It won't be long before you'll realise you haven't cried for a day, and then a few days etc.

skyebluesapphire Tue 22-May-12 20:52:03

hopefully. My friend said I need to get angry and I am at times. I need the anger to overtake the frustration adn the fear

tribpot Tue 22-May-12 21:34:11

I think the trouble is, skye, you are certain in your own mind you could have fixed this if you had been given the opportunity. (I mentioned above this rather odd image of your marriage with your DH as the customer and you as the project manager, brought problems to solve to keep the customer satisfied ... )

But this is what he does. You've seen him walk out on jobs when it all got 'a bit stressful' or whatever line of bollocks it was he fed you. He deliberately deprives the other party of the right of reply, or the right to redress, and it means he keeps all the power, because you simply