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Do I bin?

(275 Posts)
Feckthis Fri 16-Mar-12 23:18:43

I need some honest opinion here...please help. I've been with DH for many years, married for 13. 2 small dc. I'm trying to decide whether I've given it my all or whether I'm being a flake. I've got a degenerative disease. He's not so well either. He is very proud, hardly says sorry, quick temper. I'm quite passive-aggressive, been having counselling for depression (part of disease) and struggling to keep up with work, chores, life. Tendency towards martyrdom inherited from my mother, i admit. But DH won't talk about any of it, gets angry esp. when I broach the subject of cutting hours at work, picks away at housekeeping failures, is seemingly disappointed in me and his life. He's under pressure from work and family - I think he's depressed but wouldnt ever go see anyone, ever. But i feel so unloved, belittled and ground down. What can I do? I've tried to be positive so so many times my fecking cheerleader pompoms have worn out. What's the next move?

BelleDameSansMerci Fri 16-Mar-12 23:27:01

From your brief post, you appear to be doing all the "work" in the relationship. I think it needs to come from you both. He's not appearing to invest in it like you are.

I'd suggest talking to him about how you feel and see if he's willing to take on "his share" but also have a good think about how you want your life to be. Do you still see him in that picture?

Feckthis Fri 16-Mar-12 23:29:43

Ive tried talking. He won't. Just clams up. I've been with him since I was 20 and I'm in my forties now. Hard to change the picture. But I posted here so I must be contemplating it. It seems such a waste....

Feckthis Fri 16-Mar-12 23:30:35

Sory for staccato typing - my hands don't work v well

BelleDameSansMerci Sat 17-Mar-12 09:56:42

Sorry, I went off to bed. It sounds as if you are at least contemplating a different life... Maybe worth investing some time to consider how you want the rest of your life to be?

HotDAMNlifeisgood Sat 17-Mar-12 12:04:41

unloved, belittled and ground down is not tenable. No-one should have to live like that. If he won't talk about it, and therefore won't make changes to address these problems, then it does look like your choices are:

- remain unloved, belittled, and ground down, or
- bin.

Feckthis Sat 17-Mar-12 15:17:19

Wish there was a Third Way....feel like a lemming peering over the cliff....

Feckthis Sat 17-Mar-12 15:24:45

One of his tenets is 'this is me, take it or leave it'. Always had been. But I think That's a red herring tbh. Whatever he lives by he should treat me with love and respect shouldn't he? I find myself worrying about what he'll pIck me up on next. Fucking mad isn't it? I'm highly educated, got a good job and have good friends. Where are my balls?! I just roll over each time we argue and now he's saying I'm being unreasonable because I won't let it go. This after he stomped around all morning because he 'had' to do some housework because he said the house was a tip. It isn't. It's normal. But I'm unreasonable because I said we had to try to solve this impasse. Ffs. I'm so angry but can't verbalise it. Too scared. sad

Feckthis Sat 17-Mar-12 15:25:57

belle I will I think.

Oh this is no way to live - and judging by your nn you know this too.

If you escape now, it won't mean the last 20 years have been a 'waste'. You grown, developed learned stuff...learned who you are, which is why you're starting to think 'feck this'!

If you continue to live this half-life for the next 20 years - that will be a waste.

Verbalising can be scary. It makes it more real somehow. Keep typing...then read it aloud to yourself. Baby steps.

Feckthis Sun 18-Mar-12 08:49:09

My plan is forming. Relate, find out legal position, try one more time then make decision either way. Scared.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Sun 18-Mar-12 08:54:32

Scared is normal: facing the unknown is always frightening. And takes real courage. You are proving how brave you are.

Feckthis Sun 18-Mar-12 15:44:54

Believe me. Today has strengthened my resolve. More later.

TheSockPuppet Sun 18-Mar-12 15:55:23

I can't offer any advice sorry, but I hope things work out for you whatever path you choose, you sound like a very strong person.

Feckthis Sun 18-Mar-12 21:21:53

So I have had a mixed day. When I sent the last post I was feeling downhearted. Long story but essentially today hasn't really been Mothers Day. More, Mothers' responsibility day. I was given a present and my boys gave me a card so I know I'm not so badly off but there has been v little in the line of 'no darling, you have a break' in fact I've been the chief carer today while DH
has had a few cheeky beers, socialised and had a good time. The only positive that's come out of this is that I've realised that the time I'm spending with the boys is actually not a burden(although I'm knackered) but valuable. I've been quite shocked at how much DH has missed. New words from the youngest etc. I think he doesn't realise how miserable I've become but he won't listen to me so I'm stuck. I stay with my plan I think...

Feckthis Sun 18-Mar-12 21:26:21

My pompoms are still worn out though. Definitely. And there's been no mention of my (late and very very missed) mother today either. Am feeling sorry for myself. And still angry. Must resolve rather than shelve this, I know.

DonnaDoon Sun 18-Mar-12 21:45:58

All the best op...no advice just wanted to say I hear ya and keep your chin up. You can leave your pom poms down for a bit whilst you reflect.

Feckthis Tue 20-Mar-12 07:03:18

The weird thing is he's acting as if there's nothing wrong. He just can't won't discuss things. Any good ideas for broaching this subject in a non confrontational manner? I'm not doing anything until I'm up to speed re rights, options etc but would be grateful for suggestions. I don't want to screw this up

Feckthis Thu 22-Mar-12 18:58:31

Bump

HotDAMNlifeisgood Fri 23-Mar-12 10:13:54

What do you want to tell him, Feckthis?

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 23-Mar-12 10:29:13

I really feel for you OP, but I don't know what you can do if he won't listen to you or discuss.
It sounds like you could do with some breathing space. Would he leave for a while if you asked him to?

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 23-Mar-12 10:51:37

"'this is me, take it or leave it'. "

Means 'put up or shut up'... means 'I'm not changing'.... means 'I'm not even going to discuss changing'. He will act as though nothing is wrong because he's behaved this way for 20 years without incident. He knows you'll keep your chin up, go easy on him, keep the peace, tippy-toe round his bad temper, make excuses for him (under pressure from work and family?) ... all the things you describe. He is complacent because he thinks you have no choice. There is no tangible downside to his behaviour and therefore no incentive to change. He is not taking you seriously.

The only way you will get through to someone like this is to act out of character and put him on the back foot. For you, therefore, a non-confrontational way to bring it up will only support his view of you as weak and to be ignored. It has to be deliberately confrontational, assertive and there have to be real and present consequences for what happens to him if nothing changes.

So when he next says 'this is me, take it or leave it'.... you respond with 'leave it'. And then tell him to leave while you get your thoughts together and work out what to do next. It could be that this finally makes him see you are serious and that you can take things forward positively. It could be it's the end of your marriage. But anything sounds better than the emotional bullying you are currently subject to.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 23-Mar-12 11:07:47

Very well said Cogito.
She didn't get much response for a while, I hope she hasn't given up on the thread.

feckthis Fri 23-Mar-12 11:52:33

oh no, I'm here. Thank you. I know you're right. I just can't quite believe that he can be so unempathetic. I tried to talk to him last night. Basically it solved nothing. He's totally focussed on managing our finances as a consequence of my illness - how do we provide for the future if I have to leave my (very well paid) job earlier than we thought. Won't listen. Won't see any options. Won't acknowldege my fears, concerns, worries. Nada.
I'm putting my plan into action. I've set up a separate email, started investigating the financial side, contacted Relate to get (online) counselling for me. Next stop is understanding the legals. Then I am prepared and I will do as you suggest and stand my ground. I am worth more than this, arent I? He genuinly can't see it though and that's where I feel I ought to give him a chance...but is that just me hesitating before breaking this marriage apart. Once I suggest it that will be it, no going back.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 23-Mar-12 12:17:27

"He genuinly can't see it though"

'Won't' rather than 'can't'. Controlling people like your husband who are quite content in the world they've engineered do not see the point in thinking about anyone else's point of view. They rationalise it as.... 'she's whining again', 'it's something and nothing', 'it'll blow over', 'I do everything for this family', 'she'll come round eventually'. When you give a person like this the benefit of the doubt they simply interpret it as justification for not taking you seriously in the first place.

Your plan sounds excellent. Money = independence and knowledge = power. You are worthy of love and respect, not criticism and nit-picking. And you wouldn't be breaking the marriage apart... he sounds like he's spent many years doing that very effectively all by himself.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 23-Mar-12 12:45:28

I can't put it any better than Cogito has.
I wish you strength and determination.
You sound so lovely, I hope he realises what he risks losing.

feckthis Fri 23-Mar-12 13:06:30

oh, that's made me cry. There havent been many affectionate words around here for a while sad. Thank you so much.

I'm scared to death but I'm 99% certain I'll see it through. I have to really,, don't I? I refuse to have this go on to another generation (his parents weren't happy) - my DCs bloody well will respect their partners and their mother. How can they respect a doormat? They can't.

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 23-Mar-12 13:20:30

Don't cry. The whole thing's horrible, no doubt about it. It's a crappy choice either way. It is NOT EASY. The emotions are all up in the air and competing with each other. You get your sleeves all rolled up one minute determined to do something this time and then you start thinking about the good times and your resolve weakens a little. You never thought you'd be the one of your friends getting divorced so it's horrible thinking about legal advice. It takes guts so being 'scared to death' is absolutely par for the course and, if you're not a confrontational person by nature, it's even more daunting.

All I can say is - courage!!! You can choose to spend the next 20, 30, 40 years feeling 'unloved, belittled and ground down' as you put it originally, or you can take a risk, make a stand and maybe find peace of mind.

feckthis Fri 23-Mar-12 13:25:12

and i know what choice I'll make. I will. I'm just so sad about it all. thanks.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 23-Mar-12 13:48:14

Sorry about the tears. Have you got someone in RL that you can talk to?

feckthis Fri 23-Mar-12 13:57:01

Yes. A good friend who I'm seeing soon. I haven't told anyone else. Got to keep up appearances haven't we? That is DHs view. I dont care about appearances tbh I just prefer to deal with this privately. Can't stand it when you get lots of pity sympathy. Honest concern yes. Feeling sorry for me is harder to palate.

feckthis Fri 23-Mar-12 14:12:07

By which I don't mean here at all. MNetters are the best because there's no artifice. Brilliant support.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 23-Mar-12 15:38:45

Good news about seeing your friend soon.
I think it's a good idea sometimes to keep things private. If everyone knows you never get to switch off and talk about something else.
No, I can't stand pity either.
Have to go out now.

Feckthis Sun 25-Mar-12 22:53:50

Had chat with friend. DH now shouty about some minor home improvements I made over the weekend. Then just carries on like it's ok to order me to put all back as was. It's very confusing because it is hard to know what's really going on in his head. Sigh. DS1 was mean to his younger sibling today too. All a bit pressure cooker.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Mon 26-Mar-12 11:01:22

It's very confusing because it is hard to know what's really going on in his head.

Why does he do that?

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Mon 26-Mar-12 12:54:05

Sorry to hear about your week end.
I wish I could help more, I'm just here to hand hold really.

Feckthis Mon 26-Mar-12 20:53:45

And that's lovely. Thank you.

Feckthis Mon 26-Mar-12 23:06:59

Have been reading other threads here and much discussion of emotional abuse. How do you judge EA? I can't trust my judgement as obviously I'm not impartial. How can I tell if I'm overreacting or not?

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 27-Mar-12 06:49:01

"How do you judge EA?"

You're not overreacting. Emotional abuse is the gradual wearing down of your self-esteem and judgement by years and years of controlling & bullying behaviour. Verbal abuse, constant criticism, belittling of your efforts, opinions or ambitions, denying you access to friends, deciding what you are 'allowed' or not allowed to do. Emotional abusers behave badly in other ways and expect it to be tolerated. They are often charming and pleasant outside the home but horrible inside the home. Everything bar actual physical violence, basically.

Shouting at you one minute and acting like everything's OK (or even being very loving) the next means you have been left confused and unsure... that's a classic emotional abuse tactic. If you're walking around on eggshells worried about saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing and getting a blast of insults.....that's emotional abuse. Criticising your DIY attempts and thinking he can just 'command' you to undo them is bullying. The fact that you are not furious with him but trying to understand 'what's going on inside his head' is also very typical.

His behaviour is not your responsibility and there is no excuse for it to happen. NB Your relationship is your children's template for normal and, if they continue to be exposed to him bullying and you accepting it, there is a risk that they go on to copy the pair of you in their future relationships. HTH.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 27-Mar-12 08:53:23

You are not overreacting. He sounds impossible to live with.
What did your friend say?

Feckthis Tue 27-Mar-12 16:26:42

Cognito I am grateful for your honesty. It's the dc I'm most worried about. I'm still prepping and have taken the view that everything from now on is practice for when I'm solo sad so all lone parenting for example will be preparation rather than sob-inducing. Ive also started the ball at work on getting time off to cope with my health. Still fecking terrified that I might be actually going to do this.

Feckthis Tue 27-Mar-12 16:27:46

Bewitched he's not impossible but it is wearing me out. I want myself back.

Feckthis Tue 27-Mar-12 16:41:56

Friend is in mild shock tbh but v supportive. We are a 'happy couple' in public. I haven't even talked to my sisters although I think they are worried about me.

suburbophobe Tue 27-Mar-12 16:59:35

It´s normal to be afraid of going it alone, especially when you´ve been in the "status quo" for so long.

I am an LP and it´s not always a walk in the park it sure beats having to tiptoe round an abusive man! Oh, the peace!! Bliss!

I honestly believe my DS is a better person for it. Dread to think how he would´ve turned out if I´d stayed. (Probably as abusive as his father....).

Feckthis Wed 28-Mar-12 07:05:55

I feel like I'm coming up through deep water. I keep remembering episodes. I indirectly tried to talk about it last night but don't seem to be able to articulate. He thinks I'm going bananas. Sometimes I do too. We are going away at Easter. Should I wait and have it out once back home?

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 28-Mar-12 07:55:12

If he thinks you're 'going bananas' that's another example of EA... trivialising something that matters to you. If you're not in the habit of exploring your feelings too deeply or if you find confrontation leads to anxiety then trying to articulate why you're very unhappy to someone with a track-record of not taking you seriously is very difficult.

When you broach the subject is entirely your call. However, now that you've started thinking about it and now that you're sensitised to what he's doing, don't be surprised if the tension builds during your holiday and things come to a head.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Wed 28-Mar-12 09:20:30

Only you can decide when to act, but you do need time to find out where you stand legally, and then work out what you want to do and how to do it.
When you've done that you will feel more in control and can start to visualise your new life.
Talk to your friend some more and tell your sisters, they will all want to help you I'm sure, and it will get you used to the idea that you have made the decision.

Feckthis Wed 28-Mar-12 12:31:05

My first reaction is that I can't tell my sisters because he'll be angry. QED.

CogitoErgoSometimes Wed 28-Mar-12 13:12:28

How would he know who you'd spoken to unless you told him? Aren't you allowed private conversations?

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Wed 28-Mar-12 15:18:06

Wow, surely the subject of a conversation between you and your sisters could be kept private.

Feckthis Wed 28-Mar-12 21:10:45

Perhaps. In my experience it doesn't stay private for long. Maybe I'm overly worried.

Feckthis Wed 28-Mar-12 22:10:51

He hates it if I talk about our relationship to others. Very private person. That's why I love MN. Telling my friend was a giant step.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 29-Mar-12 00:46:37

I would agree that problems within a marriage should be kept private, until it reaches the stage that you are at; that either party is not acting in the other's best interests.
At that point outside help is needed. My understanding is that your sisters can't be trusted. I find that quite shocking, but I don't have any sisters.
I'm sorry if I have misunderstood.
I'm sad to realise that you are even more isolated than I thought.
I agree MN is amazing, but we can't do anything material.
Lean on your friend for actual, real help.

Feckthis Thu 29-Mar-12 06:46:16

Oh no don't think my sisters can't be trusted. I just worry they'd be so protective they'd end up saying something despite themselves iyswim. Anyway I have let them know all is not rosy in the meantime as I am gradually recognising that talking gives me some perspective as well as support.

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 29-Mar-12 07:42:07

"they'd end up saying something despite themselves"

That's the whole point. He needs to know that his actions are not a secret but others know what he's up to. If he thinks others are on to him, he may behave better. If he knows you have people who are looking out for you, he will take you more seriously. Bullies succeed when they isolate their victims and make them dependent. Don't help him do this by isolating yourself.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 29-Mar-12 08:55:51

And the perspective and support will help you feel like you are regaining some control. But you may not want to "go public" until you are further on with your plan. You must be feeling very raw and exposed. Look after yourself.

Feckthis Thu 29-Mar-12 15:01:45

Had a massive little cry today when with friends and talked to one of my good friends as a result. Next stop the world press.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Thu 29-Mar-12 19:35:01

Opening up to good friends is wonderful. I hope it did you good. World press maybe not such a good idea wink , but there are plenty of people out there who love you and will want to help you, even if it's just by listening to you.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 30-Mar-12 09:52:47

Excellent! And humour too! smile

Feckthis Sat 31-Mar-12 22:43:39

And light the. Blue touchpaper

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sun 01-Apr-12 01:12:15

Not sure what to make of that post love.
Sounds like you might need to go and stay somewhere else for a bit.
Hope you're OK. x

toomuchmonthatendofthemoney Sun 01-Apr-12 01:42:50

Just reading this now, hope you are ok OP?

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 03-Apr-12 08:16:40

I'm still checking here a couple of times a day. Just in case you want to talk.

Feckthis Tue 03-Apr-12 22:58:10

I'm here. Sorry if I worried you. I was a bit overwrought. We had it out over the weekend. I stood my ground, he stormed off. I let him stew. He cracked the next morning and said he'd try to listen to me, help me and chill out. So far he's done it, taking the DCs so I get a break, not being snarky etc etc. I'm waiting and hoping...

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Wed 04-Apr-12 00:48:03

Oh, so good to hear from you.
Standing your ground and letting him stew - bloody well done.
Obviously early days, but has to start somewhere.
Hope you're feeling better.
Fingers crossed. x

Feckthis Wed 04-Apr-12 07:10:48

Thank you I am. And thank you so much for your support. I would never have had the gumption to tell him to eff off (which I did, quite definitively) and then not go back apologising. Marvellous. Instead I let him go off and had a glass of wine smile as you say, early days. I'm vigilant. Thank you again.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Wed 04-Apr-12 11:57:38

Good. Stick with the wine and vigilance. Hope he can stick with the new habits and behaviour patterns, and reform his attitude permanently.

toomuchmonthatendofthemoney Thu 05-Apr-12 23:12:41

Yes well done feckthis, good luck with keeping going.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sat 07-Apr-12 17:03:13

Hope the break is going well.

Feckthis Tue 10-Apr-12 13:02:18

thanks. it went remarkably well actually. DH gave me time to relax by taking both DC's out and about which was a new experience and we got time together without the kids (MIL was with us, but that's a whole other story) - the acid test now is how things go once we are back at the daily grind. I have also realise dthat i need to kick my 'victim'/'martyr' tendencies into touch -if I roll over what can I expect? It's better to stand my ground isn't it? I feel like I've move away from the cliff edge a little although I can still see the sheer drop.....as you said earlier, baby steps.

CogitoErgoSometimes Tue 10-Apr-12 13:12:15

Sounds like an improvement. However, please keep asserting yourself and don't let your guard drop any time soon. Unfortunately, bullying men often cycle through good and bad behaviour as a way of keeping their victim compliant. Once they lull them into a false sense of security with apologies and promises to change they think it's safe to go back to their old habits. You have to really watch out for that pattern happening & stamp on any bad behaviour the minute it starts, no matter how trivial.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 10-Apr-12 13:23:14

Personally, I couldn't be bothered (anymore) to be in a relationship where I have to constantly be on the alert about keeping disrespect in check.

Respect should be a given.

Technoviking Tue 10-Apr-12 13:26:23

At risk of this already being answered..
What happens if you say "leave it" to his take it of leave it?

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 10-Apr-12 14:15:11

You must definitely stand your ground. He must maintain these new patterns consistently and permanently. Not easy.
Very glad you had a nice week end.

feckthis Fri 13-Apr-12 21:17:44

I'm back. what a surprise, eh? There's been an amount of backsliding and I'm fed up with it all, all the shilly shallying, all the angst. What a waste of energy. Back at the cliff edge. I stopped getting my plans into order, stupidly. Need to get organised and do my research and then do SOMETHING! Fucking hell. I keep remembering our wedding day and the beautiful way he told me how much he loved me....and here;s none of that affection, respect or love there anymore...he just doesnt appear to give a fuck unless it's dierupting what he thinks is the right way of doing things. I'm whining I know but ffs, how cana rationale person change so much? It utterly defeats me. It really does.

feckthis Fri 13-Apr-12 21:18:39

sorry for crap typing, it's a reflection of how I feel

MissFaversham Fri 13-Apr-12 23:41:07

Oh op <hugs> Yes, start getting those plans back in order. He left emotionally a long time ago. Now it's your turn.

feckthis Fri 13-Apr-12 23:44:58

And yet I honestly think he thinks he's doing ok...it's like different languages. Thanks for hug. Needed it wink

MissFaversham Fri 13-Apr-12 23:48:16

He's doing ok but are you? He is what he is OP, are you willing to make do?

feckthis Fri 13-Apr-12 23:53:18

No I'm not. A friend was diagnosed with cancer today. Life is short. I don't want to squander it being moany.

MissFaversham Fri 13-Apr-12 23:53:26

There's no such thing as a "different language" honey. It's a bloody lie.

MissFaversham Fri 13-Apr-12 23:56:35

When a person is in an unhappy relationship they become unrecognisable to even themselves.

This is my belief <so I shall whisper> There is clinical depression of course but there is also repressed anger that is misconstrude as depression. You aren't moaning OP you are bloody repressed and sad.

feckthis Fri 13-Apr-12 23:56:53

I know. I know. What a mess.

MissFaversham Fri 13-Apr-12 23:59:18

Well messes can be cleared up you know sweetheart. A dominant man is not a real man.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sat 14-Apr-12 00:47:43

You aren't moaning. You're complaining, and questioning his lack of consideration. Quite right too. It's early days so don't worry about your plans not progressing consistently. Just pick them up now and keep going.
More (((hugs))). smile

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sat 14-Apr-12 00:49:41

smile obv. Sorry blame wine

feckthis Sun 15-Apr-12 07:37:01

I'm so tongue tied I can't articulate how I feel to him. He's accusing me of being the grumpy one because I've stopped being cheerful. I don't want to wreck things but feel its almost inevitable. It's going to be messy. He's in a huff now because I've said I want to talk but don't know how to because I don't want to argue. That's me ruining the day apparently. Perhaps I have.

lifechanger Sun 15-Apr-12 07:56:25

I left after twenty years together aged 40. Honestly, it was lifechanging for the very best reasons - so lovely to be in control of my own, autonomous and harmonious household. Ten years along the line I have a wonderful new bloke but would still be perfectly happy without one - it's a bonus.

Don't be frightened of leaving this, it's making you so unhappy. Life out there on your own can be bliss. Tough at times, but at least you have control over the ethos of your household. It is so good to live without unpleasantness, hostility and agro.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 19-Apr-12 08:29:30

How are you OP?

feckthis Tue 01-May-12 15:28:14

I'm doing OK on one level and falling apart on another. My SIL staged an intervention yesterday as she is so worried about me and the kids. Sat me down and said I wasn't going loopy, that she could see what was happening, recognised family patterns etc. Very traumatic but cathartic. Have contacted a solicitor in order to get a plan together. Have broached subject of me spending more time with the Dcs and less at work. Got called names and shouted at. I am more determined to give me and the DCs a good life. If DH isn't going to play ball then stuff him. Am feeling wobbly but determined. Thank you for not forgetting me!

Reelingandupset Tue 01-May-12 15:46:08

Good for you, yes go to the solicitor. I didn't see your thread first time round but he sounds absolutely vile.

Just keep making plans and reading and getting a plan together.

feckthis Tue 01-May-12 16:00:29

The sad thing is that he isn't vile. He can't break the cycle. So I'm going to. Thanks tho. Don't worry, I will not backslide, SIL wld kill me wink

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 01-May-12 19:46:30

I haven't forgotten you at all, but I have been away for 10 days otherwise would have been here more. SIL sounds like a rock and wants to help, so throw a rope round her and use the support.Traumatic is agonising but cathartic is good. You say he isn't vile, but the way he treats you sounds vile.You said earlier that he's not impossible but I think a lot of us would find him impossible to live with. He has warped your perception.
Keep moving towards your goal, it doesn't matter if progress is slow.
You've got a lot of crap to kick out of the way, you've been with him a long time. You're doing very well, keep it up. x

feckthis Tue 01-May-12 19:53:11

Oh yr so lovely. I've definitely unpeeled another layer of the onion skin. Hence my tears no doubt.

feckthis Wed 02-May-12 10:20:19

what an evning. DH went out and when he came in we had a 'discussion' - unpleasant and angry. He talked more than he has done but he's so angry. He says I'm driving him mad, that I'm the 'uptight' one, he's doing everything, that I'm being unreasonable. He demanded to know what I wanted. I said I wanted to stop feeling like shit, to stop feeling apologetic, to feel loved. He focussed on the practical, financial stuff - important but not the real stuff. He can't get past the practical. He's taking some time to come up with a plan but I'm unsure. If I trust him, give up work and look after the DCs (what Id like to do in a perfect, happy world) will I just become financially dependant and even more ground down by all this? Is his anger because he's hurting, or will this just rumble on and on.

MrsGypsy Wed 02-May-12 10:38:25

OP I've just read through your thread from beginning to end, and the thing that jumps out at me is that you really just want to be happy in your life. I don't think that's too much to ask for. Not really.

I also think you know that your relationship with your DH won't ever be part of a "happy" life. He does not bring out the best in you, you do not bring out the best in him. That's it, really.

You've started the process of looking at a new life that doesn't include him, so I hope you're not still in shock at the thought of calling time on your marriage. Continue with your plans, with Relate, with a solicitor, and find out what YOUR financial position will be. At the moment, I don't recommend cutting down your hours in your job, or even giving up, unless your health prevents you from working full time. Keep your options open - it will be harder to quickly pick up a well paid job, should you urgently need one.

With regard to all the other details regarding a separation, you should get good advice from your solicitor, and of course, MN! Enough, already, OP - you have the rest of your life to live, with sunshine and smiles and happiness with your wonderful DC.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Wed 02-May-12 12:11:57

I don't think you should trust him. I don't think you should give up or cut down work. I think if you do either of those things you will be more dependent and ground down.
I think he is angry because you are rocking his boat.

feckthis Wed 02-May-12 19:34:52

Hmmm I agree. And yes, happy is all I want really. Not complicated really. Why is it so fecking hard then? I'm trying to get an appt with the solicitor soon. Thankyou so much.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 03-May-12 09:34:37

Good, that will be a practical step forward that will help you decide what to do next. Well done, keep it up.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Mon 07-May-12 19:38:28

Hope w/e was OK. How's that onion?

I can't believe I missed your updates sad (note to self: look out for minor namechanges that don't highlight...)

I hope you're doing okay. My guess is that you're giving this thing your best shot because youare a lovely person. That's fine, but give it a time limit and if it does all go arse-up you'll know you did everything you could.

Feckthis Tue 08-May-12 06:15:47

Weekend was an eye opener. He was a bear with a sore head with me, was ok with the DCs until their antics got too much and then he was shouty with them and quite frankly unacceptable. I spent most of the time either trying to hide my crying or placate DCs. Definition of pressure cooker. And yet, as soon as we were in company he went back to 'normal' ie low level sniping. He says I'm useless at everything. Well I'm not useless at planning for a future without him. I am terrified he'll use my illness against me to get the DCs but my symptoms are only bad because of having to work so hard at this crap. So, I am speaking to the lawyer this week to understand my rights and I've taken the decision to tell work so as to explain why I've been a bit unfocussed recently. There's rumours of redundancies too which may be a godsend in disguise. I've investigated our finances too and think I might be able to buy him out. I think. But I do know he'll go ballistic when I give him my ultimatum. Have to be rock solid before I light the blue touch paper.

I can't thank you guys enough, this thread is such a support. I am amazed that I have let myself get into this situation but I can't dwell on it - the DCs are the ones I have to protect. I'm getting there I think but MN is proving to be my touchstone as I do.

It's amazing when you hear the amount of criticisms these men make against us you'd think they'd be desperate to split up...thing is they like a punchbag.

Stay strong

{{{wee hug}}}

hayhosmith Tue 08-May-12 13:45:01

Hang in there, you are not alone.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 08-May-12 17:46:09

Sorry to hear about the bear with a sore head, it's so unfair on you.
Telling work, redundancy news, all steps in the right direction. I wouldn't keep him in that loop though.
Seeing the lawyer will be a big step, good luck.

Feckthis Tue 08-May-12 18:35:54

Just wrote a massive post and lost it angry

Have started the legal advice route although the firm I approached have said their books are full hmm
Have found another and will call them tomorrow. I told work today so that if it kicks off they have advance notice and won't think I'm being wilfully crap at my job. Am terrified of broaching the subject with DH but want to make it clear that counselling is my preferred option but that I am serious about stopping this destructive pattern. I know I'm not perfect and will go into any counselling with an open mind because I know how helpful it can be. I hope I'm wrong but I predict we won't make it that far. sad this is however, my last attempt. sadsad

glasses I agree. It's fucking unbelievable we ever get into these positions. How one can slide into the pattern of acceptance of shouting, insulting and belittling has me completely flummoxed. Why I have never stood up and said 'enough' defeats me. I could tell you some examples of being left to deal with massive life events alone but it's too depressing and won't get me anywhere now. Onwards and upwards. I hope.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 08-May-12 19:31:26

Oh sweetheart, I think "slide" is the operative word there. Getting to the shit place is a gradual process.- they couldn't achieve it overnight. I look back at various past relationships and think "how the fuck did that happen, and how did I let it it go on for so long". At the time it seemed that there were very grey areas in terms of whose fault things were, because, of course, none of us are perfect, and when "he" is warping one's perception, it's like you're living in a fog and you've lost the ability to recognise right from wrong.

Feckthis Tue 08-May-12 22:16:28

have to say, its like living an alternative life, all this silent planning...not enjoying this aspect at all although logically I know I'm being sensible...

ThePinkPussycat Tue 08-May-12 22:46:39

Hmm. A word of warning about counselling. Many here say that couples counselling when one of the couple is an abuser does not usually lead to a good outcome, and can made matters worse, as the abuser picks up further tricks to add to his repertoire. sorry.

hayhosmith Wed 09-May-12 13:45:12

I read something interesting recently on the subject of "leaving a bad situation" it brought tears to my eyes, as I could relate to it in my life and relationship
:-
" Put a frog into boiling water and it will jump out straight away, put a frog into cold water then gradually add in boiling water, it will stay there until it is dead"

Sometimes we have to accept the reality of what has happened, it is extremely hard to accept sometimes but we have to be so strong. Follow your heart and your conscience will let you know if you are doing the right thing.

Feckthis Wed 09-May-12 14:17:08

I was thinking of boiling frogs a few nights ago actually - the analogy is spot on.

My conscience pricks the most when I see DH walking off in a strop and my Elder child stands looking after him, shouting Daddy. Or when DH shouts 'what is wring with you?!' when he is disobedient. DC is so desparate for consistent (and thats the key point, consistent) attention and affection its tragic. DH blows hot and cold and DC doesnt know where he stands.

One way or another (and I hope its without breaking up the marriage but I know it will be) I will break this cycle. Feeling more militant having taken proper legal advice.

Feckthis Sat 12-May-12 06:38:02

Was talking about codependency with friends last night. How did I never hear about this until now?

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sat 12-May-12 11:01:28

I can be like a lightbulb coming on can't it? Sounds like you're gaining strength and resolve.
I'm liking the sound of militant!

Feckthis Sun 13-May-12 21:12:22

Am feeling weakened again. DH has basically just intimated that while I was away this weekend everything was wonderful and I am the problem here. Am feeling devastated. Am I a bad mother? Do I damage my children with my anxiety? Am going to go to Relate by myself to straighten my head out. I don't want to be the problem. Feck. He's acting completely normally all this time. Feel like I'm losing the plot.

He's talking out of his bumhole and you know it. The dc were probably walking on eggshells. You are NOT the problem.

MrsGypsy Mon 14-May-12 09:23:34

Ha! Everything was wonderful this weekend? My arse! (excuse me....!) it wasn't, because your DC were probably tiptoeing around, a bit scared of Daddy because he shouts at them.

He's messing with your head. All yr posts read intelligent, thoughtful, concerned and loving mother. You've even taken on board the 'co-dependency' possibility, (and it's not nice to think you might have been enabling his behaviour) without flying off the handle. No, you continue with your plans - there's no room for eggshells in a happy home.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Mon 14-May-12 09:30:13

Yup, what they said.
What do the DC say about the week-end?
Hope you had a good time away.

Feckthis Mon 14-May-12 22:12:33

I really don't know what to think. DH won't accept that all I want is to not feel apologetic all the time. He says I'm the problem. I had a lovely day with my youngest today which went pear shaped at the end. I'm rock bottom in self confidence, getting shouty with my elder (am really worried about this, hes playing up and I can't seem to manage it 'nicely' ) and younger had a tantrum about going to bed (although I got him to sleep ok in the end) . I tried to make myself clear this evening saying I wanted to fix things but only if we did it properly rather than DH say he's taking everything on and feel resentful be arsey all the time. We've got such different perspectives and he won't go to see relate. hes under pressure in all directions which I know and would like to help reduce but feel totally useless about because he criticises me so much. He thinks I'm overreacting and/or delusional. Maybe I am. Maybe my meds are fucking my head up but I don't think so really. God, I'm so confused. Who's right? Neither of us, I suspect. Nothing's black and white. Was going to see a mediator tomorrow but will postpone as I don't feel ready to move on this. I also took a couple of days off at work but haven't told DH. Think I'll take tomorRow, go see the doctor re not sleeping and then try to have a calm day to think things through. I think so little of myself I'm beginning to believe him.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Mon 14-May-12 22:30:49

Stop thinking like that. Don't slide backwards.
You are right in wanting better for yourself and your children.
Breathe, breathe again, and re-boot. Sorry, that sounds crap.
But go back and read this from the start.
Don't believe him. x

Bless you, you sound exhausted. Of course nothing's black and white, that's just the way he sees it - blaming you for everything and grinding you down. Some counselling on your own wouldn't be a bad thing. Any friends, relatives you can talk to?

Read back over your thread. Look objectively at the hard FACTS of how he's behaved. Telling you you're dellusional/over-reacting (ie "crazy") is in the script of all gaslighters and it's bullshit.

Bring back the militant Feckthis!

Feckthis Thu 17-May-12 19:09:57

I think I've reached a plateau. DH has appeared to have taken some of my points to heart. He says he loves me. I am biding my time. One more explosion and that's it. And I've made it clear I am prepared to end the marriage which I think was a shock to him. I don't feel militant but not do sad I'll walk away. Baby steps. Hopefully not backwards.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 18-May-12 01:34:49

I'm not sure I understand. I think you're saying that your plan to leave is on hold.
Fingers crossed love. Keep talking to your friends and family.
Come back if you need to. x

Feckthis Fri 18-May-12 13:57:37

I think that's where I am. Tbh I'm not sure I wont be back here soon but I feel I ought to give it a go because it has got better since I forced him to talk about it all. He's brilliant at hiding behind obtuse statements and counter questions but over the past three nights I've plugged away and not let him ignore the fact tha I will not continue to live so unhappily. What I don't know is whether he listened enough to understand we can't just settle back into a comfy (for him) groove. I can't thank you enough though. I have found a new voice and have stood up for myself so much better than I have before. And I know the number of a brilliant lawyer, which is, ahem, nice (for me). hmmgrin

Feckthis Fri 18-May-12 13:59:43

I was exhausted too, you're right. I've had a couple of good nights sleep courtesy of my doctor and feel much stronger. Pills down the loo tonight I think tho. Don't like to use them but I was desperate.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 18-May-12 18:54:34

I can understand the feeling that you need to have given it every possible chance.
Don't lose the voice and stay on your feet!
As I said, fingers crossed.
And, um, is there a hint of something else behind the "brilliance" of the lawyer, hmmm? grin

Feckthis Sun 20-May-12 18:20:37

I hate weekends. Feeling more militant.

What's been going on?

Feckthis Mon 21-May-12 06:38:34

Another shouty saturday. Doctor has given me sleeping pills do I'm feeling stronger too. Had the boys to myself yesterday and while it wasn't perfect it was lovely and lots of hugs etc. I've told my sister too. Big step for me. Things are moving. Scared.

So glad your sister knows. It is scary but you will be okay. One day you'll say 'I love weekends - I get the chance to spend lots of time with my lovely boys...' smile

Feckthis Tue 22-May-12 12:49:37

have given DH the choice - either fix things with counselling or thats it. Waiting for response. Have been waiting a while so expect I know the answer sad but at least I'm clear, eh? Thank you for sticking with me on this, it means a LOT.

piratecat Tue 22-May-12 13:05:20

wow, just read through op.

I think you are going thru the yoyo ing bit before it does all eventually come to an end.

It reads that you have changed so much within your marriage, and the light's gone on. Like a life reassessment.

You will be so much happier with just your dc's imo, I know it's scary as hell. There is a life out there for you, you sound super switched on to me. Just worn out at fighting and trying , on your own.

hope you come and let us know what happens. I wish you strength.

Feckthis Tue 22-May-12 15:18:35

Thankyou. I blardy need it.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 22-May-12 15:45:18

Excellent that you've told your sister, you're getting more and more people on side, so more and more strength to draw on when the crunch comes.
Hope he doesn't keep you waiting too long for an answer.

Feckthis Tue 22-May-12 17:47:52

Just terrified he will try to take the DCs sadsadsadsad still wondering if I am wrong hmm I think it's because I can't believe Im right. confused also slightly nervous of what it will be like if/when he realises I have been talking. Which in itself shows how much I kowtow. Bloody hell. What if I've read this all wrong? Logically I KNOW I'm right but there's this nagging doubt. Feck. Feck. Feck.

NameChangeaGoGo Tue 22-May-12 18:18:57

It's hard isn't it when you're worrying that maybe you're the problem. I think I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter who's fault it is, the fact is that it isn't working.

piratecat Tue 22-May-12 21:49:20

namechange, that's true. it's not going anywhere.

op it's normal to be scared, but it just shows you how ABNORMAL it is to be so scared of his reaction, because as you say, he belittles you, and doesn't face up to a bloody thing.

you know what, he can't just have the children, there would be courts and stuff involved, he can't just take them based on his view of you as a human being!!

I think I said before - you feeling you have some responsibility in all this means that you are a decent human being and a grownup.

The fact that he lays all the blame on you makes him the opposite.

He might threaten to take the DCs but it's unlikely he wants them full-time. Read your thread again. I'm supposed to be working but maybe one of those wonderful mnetters will go through it and list all his wankfuckery-type behavior so you can see it more clearly. WE can see it, clear as day.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Wed 23-May-12 08:59:40

You are not wrong.
He belittles you.
He is inconsistent and unkind to your DC.
He scares you.
He has failed to suggest a single thing to improve matters.
He has failed to leap at your suggestion to go to counselling.
He absolutely cannot just take the children. I have no experience so cannot suggest how to deal with the fallout when you tell him to leave. I hope someone will come along who can. Sending you strength, resolve and hugs.

Feckthis Wed 23-May-12 20:22:07

I have said he needs to talk to someone about his depression which, based on the last nights discussions, Is pretty obvious. He's rejected it but has said he will try so long as I do. Have to try but tbh am not hopeful. My sister and SIL both will stand by me and I've got my friends and MN. I'm laughing. Almost.

Well that's better than rolling over and having 'welcome' tattood to your chest.

(thanks, BBBB for the above!)

Oops, hold one of the B's smile

Feckthis Wed 23-May-12 21:16:21

Might be about to go to hell in a handbag. Got a bit militant. Oops. Silly me. Will report back. Wish me luck.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 24-May-12 08:21:30

No problem tallwiv.

What happened Feck? Are you OK?

Feckthis Thu 24-May-12 19:31:44

Am confused. I stood my ground last night about the sheer lack of seriousness DH seemed to be attaching to this. He skipped off out with his friends last night leaving me to deal w two knackered DCs - I sent a blunt text. He was v cross but contained and we left it that that was it. Or so I thought. Today he wants to try. I meanwhile have been prescribed happy pills because I am sonbingly exhausted due to the stress affecting my sleep. But he's FAR worse because he's got a bad cold Ffs. I am angry. My sister has counselled I spell it out very clearly how far my thoughts have gone. My SIL has quite correctly surmised I am scared to do that. And all the time he's saying it's my issue. I am so bored of it all now. I am almost at the point of just giving up on this marriage because I seem to be the only grown up who sees the rot. Definitely a yoyo pattern. Thankfully each cycle is shorter than the last. I am gagging for equilibrium, in whatever form it takes.

anonacfr Thu 24-May-12 20:50:11

You poor thing. It all sounds so exhausting.

ThePinkPussycat Thu 24-May-12 21:53:09

'He will try if you will' - this looks like a pre-emptive attempt to lay the blame on you if things do not improve. Sorry.

Take your pills, they are just to see you through and keep you able to cope.

However, if he is depressed then he may well need ADs, he should go and get some, ADs really do work these days, though sometimes it takes a while to get the right one for one's physiology. If he remains depressed, he will find it much harder to change his behaviour.

mummytime Fri 25-May-12 08:02:59

Okay I may be wrong, but I thought if you were depressed you tended to take responsibility for everything, not blame other people for your actions. Eg. Someone who is depressed will sit on a bus which is late because of road works, and blame themselves for not having known (telepathy?) and for not having "allowed extra time" so left 1/2 hour earlier than the journey normally takes.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 25-May-12 08:28:11

In view of his refusal to take your unhappiness seriously, and inability to take any responsibility for changing your relationship, maybe it's time to accept that it is your issue.
You're not "just giving up on this marriage". You've been trying to fix it for months but he won't co-operate.
You are the only one who can stop the rot.

Feckthis Fri 25-May-12 09:27:05

We had more discussion last night. And it was discussion not argument. I didn't settle for'lets both try' I said I had been at divorce stage and he needed to deal with his stress differently in the future. He agreed. I didn't just acquiesce and went thru my worries/grievances esp re the DCs and he's agreed to all of it. I think he's had a jolt because I've changed how I behave ie not a doormat. I'm hopeful. But cautious.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 25-May-12 12:45:18

Hm. You will also have to be vigilant, to make sure he maintains it.
At all times.
Forever.
Sounds like hard work for you.

hayhosmith Mon 28-May-12 14:05:57

Hi FT
I feel for you, don't push yourself too hard, take a breather, just try and take your mind off all this even for just a little while. Take yourself off and do something just for you, try and clear your head sounds like you need it. Wish you strength and wisdom.

Feckthis Tue 29-May-12 05:43:53

I'm back after a hiatus. I'm glad to say I'm doing ok. Sleep is returning and I'm not suffering any side effects from the antidepressants. I'm signed off work and now appreciate how much I need this breather. DH is chilling out and seems to have taken this all to heart smile. Whatever happens I'm enjoying the moment. Thank you so much for helping me. I am incredibly grateful.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 29-May-12 08:44:26

Pleased to hear you're sleeping better and enjoying life.
I hope the change in DH is permanent. Perhaps he will finally realise that if you are happy he will benefit too.
x

Feckthis Fri 01-Jun-12 22:24:28

Strop alert...

We're alerted. Who's stropping? you, I hope wink

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 01-Jun-12 23:46:24

We are alerted.
What's up.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 01-Jun-12 23:50:53

Argh!
Times like this I wish we had phone numbers.

Aye Bewitched, but then it would just go to voicemail! Feckthis, dunno why but I care for you and I'm obviously not the only one. I'm dead busy for the next couple of days but people are here for you x

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sat 02-Jun-12 02:26:33

grin tallwiv
Funny isn't it, I dunno why either, but I do.
crowncrowncrown x

Feckthis Sat 02-Jun-12 21:19:59

God he had a strop because some pasta sauce fell out the fridge. I kid you not. Ffs. I let him fly and then ignored him. Then asked for an apology this morning. Sort of got one. Am in two minds as to next steps. So glad you are sticking w me. I am a bit noodled now tho so may wander....

It'll be 'your fault' I take it, that the pasta sauce fell out of the fridge? hmm

ThePinkPussycat Sat 02-Jun-12 22:48:03

and your job to clear it up immediately.

Jerseyellie Sat 02-Jun-12 23:04:57

Good lord do you realise how long this has been going on? I feel for you but once you make a decision you need to stick with it, for your sake & DCs. I've been in your position and I know it's hard but stop giving the man chance after chance. Enough is enough. Do something for you and the kids, bollox to DH

Feckthis Sat 02-Jun-12 23:13:03

No, he cleared it up. I only found out after the event. I understand how long this has been going on for, but a few weeks is nothing compared to the 20 odd yrs we've been together.

Okaaay...do you need this for the next 20 years?

Feckthis Sat 02-Jun-12 23:27:06

No I don't. But I have to give him time to catch up w the new me, non ?

Jerseyellie Sat 02-Jun-12 23:35:22

Nope it seems he's had plenty of opportunities to resolve your issues. You have fallen into his trap madam. Sorry to say this but you have to be selfish so you can fix yourself.

NicNocJnr Sun 03-Jun-12 00:13:05

Hummm.

It seems to me that you failed to take one small thing into account.
He will catch up with the new you. If you read 'catch up' to mean worked out where all the new buttons and weaknesses are.
He will not change without outside agency, he's not prepared to get help.
I understand how scary making the choice is, particularly when you have years of history. But those years resulted in this.

As a child of an abusive father my perspective is tilted rather more toward your DCs. You note further up the thread how your DC is desperate for loving, positive attention. Having a father that 'is a bit shouty' does not cause that.
I find it hard that you can go from where you were, note that you passively watch your children begging like dogs for what should be the right of every child (not being abused, humilitated, belittled, shouted at, kept insecure and anxious is hardly luxury) and now he's being a bit nicer so it's all fine.

You have the right to self-determination, autonomy and respect. So do your children. But while you can choose to feed the drama and be on a miserable yoyo for the rest of your life they haven't chosen that. They'll get that though unless they work hard as adults to undo the damage. You know how it affected you, why on earth don't you count your unhappiness as x3? On balance your next 60 years vs 2 lots of a lifetime doesn't come out as the bigger number. It wouldn't be enough for me to gamble with my children.

Feckthis Sun 03-Jun-12 07:52:00

As ever, lots to think about.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Mon 11-Jun-12 09:41:14

How's things Feck?

Feckthis Thu 14-Jun-12 20:55:31

Sorry for silence. I have had a torrid couple of weeks but am on a more even keel. I'm still signed off work, which I am surprised I find I need, and am trying to be more measured in my approach to life. By which I mean I am trying to acknowledge I have limits and can't just keep on keeping on.

Marital bliss hasn't been achieved yet but we are being kinder to each other and I am being more forthright. We haven't dissected our problems enough though and I am wary about bad habits creeping back. So, overall positive but not blue bird territory.

The children are doing much better, youngest is blossoming, elder is spending more time with us both and is being lovely with youngest. I have taken the comments here to heart, believe me, and the DC will always come first. However, I strongly believe that if there is hope in a marriage that hope needs to be given a fighting chance too. If they are unhappy then all bets will have to be off and we go back to the brink, but based on the last few weeks I remain hopeful. Am I being stupid? We will find out but whatever happens the DC will be my priority.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 14-Jun-12 22:35:30

Please don't apologise, there is absolutely no obligation here.
And, no, you can't possibly be being stupid.

It may be that your recent epiphany has sparked the changes necessary to make your family function the way you want it to. The DC seem to think so.
That's lovely to hear and you should take pride in that.

I think you are also right about patterns of behaviour becoming habits, and when people become aware that the habits need to change that's a large part of the battle won.

Stay vigilant, love, I have massive admiration for your stoicism.
If you win, it will have been worth it. xxx

Feckthis Tue 02-Apr-13 05:22:12

I'm back...anyone awake? Long story but I've had many trials and tribulations but I've just found out DH has a virtual alter ego and subscribes to some pretty hardcore porn...should I confront him?!?!

LovesPeace Tue 02-Apr-13 06:58:01

Oh, get rid of him.
I've just read the whole thread - you are amazing, coping with your work, your children, and this overgrown petulant and self-serving child.
I truly think that, although you worry whether you are strong enough, you will find life easier WITHOUT your husband dragging you down.
Take care x.

CleopatrasAsp Tue 02-Apr-13 07:33:05

I've just read this whole thread Feck and can't believe this is still going on. Should you 'confront' him? No, you should bloody bin him. Do yourself and your DCs a favour and give him the elbow.

Feckthis Thu 11-Apr-13 13:08:57

I'm not amazing but thanks - bloody stupid more like. I confronted him and got told to 'relax' about it. Rightly or (probably) wrongly I am giving it one last try - he knows it is the last try, Ive said so. ALl the comments re my DC are right, they deserve better - he's being great with them now but even tho i hope to blazes Im wrong Im fairly sure this is the end. What a year, what a nightmare. The cherry on the cake was a close relative intimating that its my mental state that needs the attention ie am I overreacting? Being unreasonabale? In my heart I KNOW Im not but that has shaken me and is i think why i didnt make the break this time - oh to be stronger.

DonCorleYoni Fri 12-Apr-13 23:24:18

Hi, it's Bewitched, sorry to see you back.
I thought last time was the last ditch?
I think it's time to rally the troops who are on your side and get rid of him.
Sorry.

Feckthis Sat 13-Apr-13 22:38:46

Lovely to hear from you. Am rallying. confused

DonCorleYoni Sun 14-Apr-13 02:29:49

Good.
And good luck
I'm sure it will be the hardest thing you've ever done.
And I'm sure it will be worth it.
xxx

Hi Feckthis. It is all going to be okay, you know, because you're amazing. flowers brew

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sat 25-May-13 02:02:12

Still checking here Feck, and wondering how you are. x

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 16-Jul-13 09:03:31

Hope you're getting some sun smile

Feckthis Wed 27-Nov-13 00:17:15

This was/is a zombie thread apparently. Pretty spot on. Reader, I stayed. I am fecking mad. I'm rereading to get up the strength to cauterise this mess. We tried we really did but I'm iller and can't keep up with his standards. If I do 'my stuff' I'm wasting good tidying time - tonight I said I didn't want to be shouted at any more and he said I wasn't living in the real world. I've been so blind.

LineRunner Wed 27-Nov-13 00:26:40

Hi, Feck.

Sounds bloody awful. I hope you are feeling strong enough to make the break.

Feckthis Wed 27-Nov-13 00:46:34

Well, ive just reread the whole thing and am fed up with my yo yo behaviour! Since I posted I have been made redundant, got another job, crashed the car, fallen off my bike and (just) resigned due to health. I tried to throw DH out but he (literally) got back into the house. We talked. We went to relate where he completely humiliated me. We tried again. Blah blah blah. What a waste of time. Am cross with myself.

LineRunner Wed 27-Nov-13 00:56:14

I've got to turn in now, Feck, but I'll be back in the morning no doubt.

Wishing you well overnight.

DistanceCall Wed 27-Nov-13 01:46:02

Leave.

Re-read your thread. A year and a half. Plus the previous 20 years.

Do you really want to spend the rest of your life like this?

Hi Feck, sorry things are shit. Sounds like you've had an eventful few months. Take it easy now and stop giving yourself such a hard time.

Feckthis Wed 27-Nov-13 07:02:56

Short of a miracle that's it. Its my birthday - I know what I'm giving myself.

hoboken Wed 27-Nov-13 07:25:35

'This is me, take it or leave it,' is sheer laziness. I would not stay with anyone not willing to share or compromise. Likewise with anyone who says, 'I am always right.' I agree with Cogito. What fun or fulfilment is there for you in this marriage?

Carry on with your plan. Good luck.

Pippinlongsocks Wed 27-Nov-13 08:22:12

Bin him... I know what you are going through as had the same attitude dished out to me. I binned my version of it and have never felt happier. It is hard but it is not impossible. People will help you, you will have support you couldn't imagine and as Cognito said to me "you will live life on your terms" .... That alone feels fantastic not to mention all the other good stuff that comes from escaping this kind of life. You sound very strong and already are dealing with more than some would cope with. Take that strength and channel it into a new life. You can do it. Good luck.

LineRunner Wed 27-Nov-13 08:28:27

Morning, OP. All best wishes for your birthday. Hope you are feeling strong and determined today. I just re-read your post about being told you were 'wasting good tidying time' and it makes me quite sad and angry on your behalf. Like others have said, start to live life on your terms now.

thanks

MovingOnUpduffed Thu 28-Nov-13 08:55:09

Morning op, and well done for how far you have come. Your relationship sounds almost exactly like that of my parents, I would think that you were my mum, apart from that she is still horribly in denial about the whole thing. Having someone like your Dh as your dad is so difficult, and has left me with problems I am still working through as an adult. I have wished many times that my mum had had the strength to leave, you are doing the right thing.

Feckthis Thu 28-Nov-13 22:12:08

I hope I can keep my resolve. Thanks guys. I'm living in limbo. He's acting normally, as if this is ok. I know now it's not.

LineRunner Fri 29-Nov-13 13:57:29

How's the resolve bearing up? Really hope you are ok.

Feckthis Fri 29-Nov-13 23:29:15

Thanks so much. I'm ok. I've made it clear that I won't tolerate being shouted at and he's started to back off but I know this is just a hiatus. I'm sorting finances now and deciding whether I can hang on until after Christmas so as to not wreck it for the dc's. I will be ok. I will.

Yes you will smile

willdivorcesoon Sat 30-Nov-13 08:00:45

Just read this whole thread.
Please leave this man. He is never ever going to change. You are wasting valuable, precious energy on this man that could be better spent focused on your children. Please stop letting him treat you in this shameful manner.

You are strong. You can do this. Leave him and find your happiness with your children. Just the three of you. It can be done.

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 30-Nov-13 08:06:27

If you're serious about this, do it now. Start thinking in terms of 'hang on until after Christmas' and you'll never do it. There's always some event in the calendar that can be held up as a point before which it would wreck it for the kids. Christmas, New Year, a birthday, the family holiday, GCSEs. Mostly it's just an excuse for prevarication.

Good luck sorting the finances.

Feckthis Sat 30-Nov-13 08:24:03

He won't even talk about the other night, expects me to go back to 'normal' but it feels like something has been broken. I'm glad.

MyBachisworsethanmybite Sat 30-Nov-13 08:40:43

Don't "hang on" for another day, let alone til after Christmas, til the spring, just abut longer, the next 20 bloody years...

It's so frustrating reading this thread and wishing you'd DO something about your situation not go back and forth not doing. Aaargh!!! Honestly, pull your finger out, woman.

Horsemad Sat 30-Nov-13 08:42:35

Get to a good solicitor on Monday & start the ball rolling.

Feckthis Sat 30-Nov-13 18:06:49

I have a solicitor and have contacted her. However, it's not a case of me 'pulling my finger out'. Most days I'm so shattered I just can't process anymore stress or conflict. My illness is progressive and can affect energy, wiping me out. Sorry to sound Mardy but I've not been lounging about in all this time. Anyway, I'm moving along in my plans. Which is good.

How's it going, Feckthis? You go at your own pace, but give yourself some realistic deadlines and stick them in your diary. (Got a 2014 one yet? Circle an 'I'll be free by...' date.)

whitsernam Fri 06-Dec-13 04:17:18

I really wonder if you won't have more energy and cope with your illness better without him around? Take away all the negativity and walking on eggshells, and I bet you'll feel loads better and more able to cope.

anapitt Fri 06-Dec-13 05:12:56

feck, you sound so like me .I even fell off my bike recently !
I finally got the guts to split earlier this year.

I posted on MN for over ten years in various guises.

leaving was my best move ever.

it was hard but all is fine now.

Feckthis Mon 16-Dec-13 22:45:03

Just checking in. Things a bit better but i am thinking January for definitive action now.

KouignAmann Mon 16-Dec-13 23:23:06

Feck come over and have a look at This thread where you will find like minded souls who know exactly what you are going through.

One small step at a time!

MyBachisworsethanmybite Tue 17-Dec-13 07:46:06

Or you could stop putting it off!

FluffyJumper Tue 17-Dec-13 12:51:08

I'm all for not putting it off (I left at the start of December) but I don't think many people are likely to leave on the 17th unless physical violence is involved or they have somewhere they can move into straight away. Jan sounds good - where will you go OP?

Feckthis Tue 17-Dec-13 22:03:09

I'll try to get I'm to move out although he may well not. It's a big house so we could manage. I am worried moving the boys out wld be disruptive. Better they have their home and he goes. I think we would sell up tho as I won't be able to afford it by myself. Lots to get sorted.

Feckthis Tue 17-Dec-13 22:14:42

Do you know what the difference now is? I used to think 'why doesn't he love me,what have I done wrong?' Now I'm thinking 'I don't love you.' Progress.

I held a new baby this week whose mother was so happy and I remembered how l used to have to make him do the bath time or he wouldn't have done anything with his new baby. I have almost no good memories of that time. I feel robbed.

Feckthis Tue 11-Feb-14 20:08:39

I've asked him to go. Waiting for response now...

eddielizzard Tue 11-Feb-14 20:16:58

you poor thing. well you've certainly tried your best and it sounds like you need it to end to build yourself back up. i hope your family can give you some rl support.

Feckthis Tue 11-Feb-14 20:41:50

Thanks. It's been a long haul but I've done it now. He's gone out and I sent him a message, he hasn't listened when I've tried talking. No answer yet. Not expecting one tbh. Just want this done.

LadyAlysVorpatril Tue 11-Feb-14 21:00:48

Oh well done you! Thank God.

Feckthis Mon 17-Mar-14 23:36:53

Long post...sorry...

Oh God...I'm still here, and so is he. I caved in after we spoke for ages and I believed we could try again. I am so confused. It's been mostly ok but if the house gets messy or I forget to do something then he's all sniffy again. But it was ok because he was trying to change, and we'd made headway.

And now he's saying I am overly sensitive even tho he's basically admitted that he speaks to me in harsher, ruder ways than to anybody else. I'm ill, I know that, but I feel like I'm going crazy. Tonight I told him I've found some studio space - a lifetime ambition - that I can rent for £95/mth. I do not go out to pubs, I buy charity shop clothes, I am not extravagant. I have started selling paintings at c.£30 each. I can break even at least. But he's shouting because I'll have no time, won't clean the house, neglect my (soon to end anyway) job. I'm trying to prepare for the job change, have set up a new sensible business and am starting to make art sales. All this when my doctor has told me to give up work. Am I being sensitive?

You guys are probably so fed up with what you'd see as dithering but we were working it out. It just feels that when I go free form and don't stick to (his) plan then we revert to clichéd type. I have limited healthy time...I don't want to waste it either by missing this opportunity or by dumping my marriage but I can't walk away from this (real and much needed) space.

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay Tue 18-Mar-14 05:54:39

You are obviously intelligent so....why do you use your ghastly husband as the litmus test on your own feelings? Please please see him for what he is, an arch manipulator. The time to stop worrying what his reactions would be, what his opinions of you were, how he would react to this that and the other is waaay in the rear view mirror Feck. He does not give a tinkers rap about you or yours. Forgive me but it is evident from your posts this is true and yet you seem sooo happy with the few crumbs he brushes your way. You are ground down and shaped by him to such a degree that you can't see. I realise my meagre post will probably not make you realise but it's an attempt. He sounds utterly vile.

Guiltypleasures001 Tue 18-Mar-14 08:51:52

Hi feck

I joined your thread and was half way through reading when I saw the date at the top. For 2 yrs now you've re hashed this situation and every time the same pattern arises, you wobble he dials it down you acquiesce then he ramps it back up over time, if not a little bit more.

And now you are still here, a little more ill a lot more depressed and no further forward. Lovey it seems you are almost a victim of Stockholm syndrome you are being held captive not just by him but your illness as well. If your illness is in anyway autoimmune then this stress will be making it worse, I suffer from rheumatoid arthritis and stress makes it far worse. Also I would hazard a guess at some PTSD symptoms in your posts as you cycle through stages as does he.

If you want to give yourself the best chance at a quality of life and health in the future, this has to stop once and for all, every day he rubs you out a little bit more, have you ever watched the film back to the future with Marty's picture of himself and siblings and they are gradually disappearing? This is you op your being erased bit by bit.

I don't want to sound harsh, but we get precious little time of this planet and you are not enjoying yours. Your posts prove you can do it on your own, it gets easier when you don't have to do it under the threat of his Damocles sword, believe me I know, as do a lot of us on here.

Baby birds get pushed out of the nest to learn to fly, you've been teetering on the branch looking down for 2 yrs now, but your posts read like your been falling for that long also, it's about time you spread your wings and see where they take you, it can't be any worse then where you are nowsad thanks

Feckthis Tue 18-Mar-14 19:29:25

It feels like this has been a very long nasty game of chess...moves and counter moves. I hadn't realised it's been two years but yes, I posted just after Mothers' day 2012. Bloody hell. Bloody hell.

I've taken the studio - signed the papers today. I feel so much lighter even tho I know that this is going to result in shouting etc etc. Fuck it. You're right, I know I've got to jump. And I will. Before I had no safety net but due to my illness my financial arrangements have, ironically, got a bit better thru benefits and pensions so I'm in a better position to walk or kick him out. It won't be immediately but I hope by the end of the month. That's my target.

Wigsy Tue 18-Mar-14 20:11:08

Feck, I'm so happy you took the studio. Does he have to know about it straight away? Does he have to know where it is? Use it to have some headspace and perspective, a secret place to think, if you can.

I hadn't seen this thread until yesterday. I felt so anguished for you, reading through it, reading through such a cyclic pattern. I used to keep a handwritten diary in my 20s and it was only when I read back through many months of writing that I was able to see things that had been staring me in the face for all that time and realise what it was I should do. I hope you get the same from this thread.

I am really, really happy for you that you got your studio. I hope you get to do some clear thinking and beautiful painting in it.

Sounds like you're getting stronger and stronger. Keep going!

ScarletStar Tue 18-Mar-14 20:43:03

Unbelievable lightness in my body, my mind and my soul...that's the feeling I had when I left my emotionally abusive partner. Being able to spend all my money on myself. Eating what I wanted, when I wanted. Wearing whatever I liked. Being able to talk to anyone I fancied. Making cock jokes again! grin It's never too late to do it! We are all behind you. thanks

whitesugar Tue 18-Mar-14 22:25:32

It might seem like a nasty game of chess at the moment but in actual fact it is the action of a loving person trying to minimise the damage felt by the fall out of your marriage. You wouldn't have agonised so much if you were not worried about the feelings of your loved ones. If you were a selfish person you would have moved on without a care about the collateral damage you caused. By being so cautious you have shown what a loving person you are. You know deep down that what you are doing is for the best and even though it is painful you are smart enough to know that it is for the greater good. That takes a lot of balls! You have one life and you have shown how brave you are. I really admire you.

Feckthis Tue 18-Mar-14 23:36:00

I thought you'd all be fed up with all this shilly shallying. I was scared to come back and post tbh as I KNOW this can't be right, not a way to live. We've had another night of argument. We are poles apart. He's stormed out the house after binning our dinner, then came back and is in the bath now. I've had a sarnie and a glass of wine and am calm. My studio is definitely going to be a refuge from the next few weeks/months.

I have just realised I m not calm, just dead inside. I've had enough. He said I've lost my drive and want to do nothing. That was the proverbial straw. All this shit is BECAUSE I want to DO something before I degenerate into a physical mess (I'd say 5-10yrs max) - my drive is off the scale. He backtracked but I know he meant it. I'm not ill, I'm lazy in his eyes. He denies this but all actions etc then point to that opinion. I am not a victim but I do have a serious illness. I have the right to have a good life. And my DC have the right to a happy home.

Feckthis Wed 19-Mar-14 00:12:21

And a big hello to tallwivglasses

You, Ms Feckthis are doing just fine. Keep plotting, painting and creating thanks

2Retts Wed 19-Mar-14 01:44:34

I've just read your thread through Feckthis and it's been interesting to really read through your processing of the situation.

I just want to wish you well with your art; you're clearly talented to be able to sell, there are so many great artists out there who simply cannot sell.

Life is but a moment long, I'm glad you're begining to live yours.

Feckthis Wed 19-Mar-14 21:39:10

I've done it. He's looking for a flat. Omg.

Feckthis Wed 19-Mar-14 23:21:22

After two years!

ScarletStar Wed 19-Mar-14 23:49:04

Wow how amazing! Well done! thanks

Up your prices. 30 quid's now't wink

Have you got a website?

Guiltypleasures001 Thu 20-Mar-14 07:12:30

Ooh feck, excuse the pun your brill you are
I bow down at your greatness and show of strength, your art will be a huge source of therapy for you lovey.

Now let's have a website with some of those paintings, or at least some pics. winethanks

SilenceOfTheSAHMs Thu 20-Mar-14 10:34:29

Just read this whole thread OP thanks for you and the very best of luck smile

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 20-Mar-14 10:41:31

Feck! So sorry this slipped so far down my TIW I only just found it while having a cull.

Fabulous news, well done. So exciting about the studio. As the others have said, bump those prices up.

But, keep reminding yourself to keep that resolve stiffened!

Do not let him waver, come up with excuses, regrets or promises.

You've made a huge leap in the right direction, but it's not over until he actually moves out.

flowers[stiffening vibes]!

Sk002 Thu 20-Mar-14 11:47:06

My OH only agreed to counselling because it would prove I was nuts. Funnily enough after one session he said it was all rubbish and just the counsellor getting at him. So he refused to go again. But that one session told me a lot.
Mainly that I was not crazy.
Tell your sisters. They should be great back up for you. Was hard to tell my sis but I am glad I did.

Feckthis Thu 20-Mar-14 11:52:36

advice please...you're going to say i'm wavering but...he's said he doesnt want to see me so unhappy, wants to look after me and the boys, give me space to stop work and concentrate on my art including the studio. I am finacially secure due to my pension and have savings so will not be left high and dry if it goes wrong. so do I give it one go? do i tell him i'll give it a month say, to see whether he is as good as his word? what if Ihave a chance here? agggghhhhhhh
picture attached of a bunny...

wyrdyBird Thu 20-Mar-14 12:14:20

It's nice talk, but he won't change. If he was going to, he would already have done so.

Guiltypleasures001 Thu 20-Mar-14 12:20:47

Hi Feck

He doesn't want to see me so unhappy, which episode was he talking about , the one where your lazy? Or an ineffectual mother?

Or your not really ill it's because you faff around not doing much?
Or it's not him it's you, or if you just shut the fuck up and did as you were/are told everything would be dandy.

He's had two years to see your unhappiness and now you've made a break for it, he's hanging of the gate like a sulky school kid who's just about to lose his favourite toy, or should I say punch bag.

He's had ample opportunity to look after you and the kids lovely truly he has, and if the two years youve spent on here breaking your heart because your so ill and depressed over your home life and him, is his job well done. I would truly hate to see what he does to you and those kids when he decides it's finished.

He doesn't want to be inconvenienced, all that washing ironing cooking malarkey.

Tell him to fuck off to the far side of fuck and when he gets there fuck off some more.

Or come back in another two years and ......

StormyBrid Thu 20-Mar-14 12:30:03

Give it a month? NO! You've given him the past two years, chance after chance after chance. If you give him another it will only prolong the misery. And you'll waste the last year's of your health hoping he'll change and being disappointed again and again. Please, don't let it come to that.

DPotter Thu 20-Mar-14 12:38:05

No NO No no No to another chance - sorry if you think i'm jumping in here. I have just read the whole thread and when I read your last post and long draw out NOOOOOOOOO escaped from my mouth.

He's had so many chances - if he's serious this time let him prove it from a distance for a time - a long time at that. the distance will give you both space to really think through what you both want. I personally think the space would make you see just how bad the situation has become.

I think it's fantastic about your studio - and I love the painting - definately increase the prices

Sk002 Thu 20-Mar-14 12:39:19

Sorry, I replied there without realising there were loads more posts to catch up on.
Well done so far!

Feckthis Thu 20-Mar-14 14:51:56

I knew you'd all say this. You're right of course but when you're in the middle of it, it's so difficult. I am going to break the habit if a lifetime and take my time and not welcome him back w open arms. I will make him face the responsibilities he has with regard to his behaviour. It's not all my fault. If I make no headway in this conversation (tonight) then I will not bend. I do not expect to in the slightest. This is just horrible. I won't backtrack either. I promise.

Feckthis Thu 20-Mar-14 14:53:08

Oh, and definitely counselling is a no go. Utter refusal.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 20-Mar-14 16:18:42

AAAAAaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggghhhhh!!!!!

I just knew he would try and back track, but I did think it would take a bit longer.

He won't be as good as his word. When has he ever been before?

You do have a chance here; to get rid of him and get your life back.
Please take it.

Feckthis Thu 20-Mar-14 18:10:48

I've been thinking about it all day, as expected, and have been going over the conversation this morning again and again - he basically used economics to indirectly threaten me...'it'll be expensive', 'they'll be no money', blah blah blah. the place he's looking at to rent is £500/month more than the ones I'd been looking at so either hes bullshitting on price or is spoilt and wants a gorgeous pad - or both. or is quoting a price including other bills. I don't know. I am not going to just cave in. Im going to insist on time. And I'm seeing my wonderful lawyer tomorrow morning.

Guiltypleasures001 Thu 20-Mar-14 18:23:08

It will be your fault remember if he has to lose a standard of living then it will be your hurting the kids etc, and their standard of living will be poorer. I notice no mention of an apology or what can I do to make this right, or any humility at all.

So you want to break up and it seems he's trying to micro manage that for you as well, blimey I'm surprised you've managed to breath on your own without his input on whether your technique is correct.

Manage your end op your finances etc, don't get in to debates about his new place or his financing it, he hasn't got a say in your side of things anymore, I bet he's already divvied up the furniture in his mind. thanks

Feckthis Thu 20-Mar-14 23:04:25

Waver free zone here.
Loooooong discussion tonight summarised as follows: you've never told me you wanted to not work, that's why I've treated all the ideas, ambitions and plans you've shared with me as pointless, the fact that you are still hurt by what I've done in the past is not relevant and is in fact you not trying hard enough now. And if you tell me how I have hurt you, how an apology would be quite nice, then I will walk out. But I want to look after you, after all, you'll be fucked in five years and I'll have to step in anyway. And btw, I was, in fact, reciting the phone directory all evening, you just THOUGHT I said this.

Ffs

I'm being facetious BUT not very.

StormyBrid Fri 21-Mar-14 08:09:12

Now there's a scary thought - being dependent on this knob because of your illness. Stay strong and get him out!

Guiltypleasures001 Fri 21-Mar-14 08:23:03

Morning feck,

He's done you a favour lovey and confirms what a prize narc prick he is, my dad does this too my mum, they have been married for nearly 50 yrs, she wishes she had left 20 yrs ago after discovering his 10yr affair.

Honey you reallllllly don't want that for you, make sure he has no next of kin hold over anything for you now or ever, I bet he's already made plans for this scenario.

thanks

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 21-Mar-14 08:35:38

If he wasn't so tragic, it would be funny.

That really is the final nail in the coffin of any hope for change, isn't it.

I would stop communicating about anything but when he's leaving, and arrangements for the boys when he's gone.

Broken record, repetition time.

He will continue to try and stay. You stay strong flowers

Feckthis Fri 21-Mar-14 09:17:37

He isn't leaving. He's staying. I've said I want more time. I need to get him out. I'm so fucking confused. Even though I know this is not going to end well. Maybe it is well, at least it's good from me. I'm sitting in the car ready to go and see the lawyer. Need to decide once I've spoken to her about the legal aspects. And when I say decide I mean do I just up sticks and take the kids and go myself? This might actually be the easiest option. I can't believe this is still happening. Everytime I think I've managed to do get through this something else happens and I'm back to the beginning again. He keeps on saying we both need to change the way we behave. And I keep on saying to him have you no idea what you and your actions have done to me over the years. He keeps on saying we both need to change. This is crap isn't it?

Guiltypleasures001 Fri 21-Mar-14 13:59:37

Yes it is crap

And this is hard for me to say but, I think he will try to use your illness against you with regards to the kids who has them and their welfare. He is going to play dirty and he's already started, somehow you deed to guard yourself against this.

This means getting support from all angles, and remembering that just because he states a fact doesn't make it so, it's just his opinion. If you can get though this you can deal with anything. Everything from him from now on in is a threat and should be treated as such, don't do anything you don't want to and don't allow yourself to be brow beaten or threatened. Go away with the kids for a few days with some members of your family anything to get clear of him for a while.

Feckthis Fri 21-Mar-14 15:55:58

I'm so tired. I've got lots of things planned this weekend which should give me space away without arousing suspicions. I want time to think quietly and really come to terms with what I have to do. My lawyer was ace and I can press the button now if I wanted. My finger is over it but my arm has frozen. I need to make it move again.

Guiltypleasures001 Fri 21-Mar-14 17:29:13

Hi Feck

Glad the lawyer was helpful, I imagine he might by your demeanour get wind of where your going with all this. He will take the weekend to ramp things up with you, I imagine some emotional blackmail along the lines of the your not even trying to sort this out, and think of the kids type stuff. Nod and smile is always a good tactic, my fave was always just imagining every word being yada yada yada.

He will blow hot and cold, and will get angry especially if he feels it isn't working in the way he thinks you should react. Take the weekend to gauge how far he will go with threats etc, then push the button with a smile on your face.

thanks

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 21-Mar-14 19:16:10

Excellent news about the lawyer.

Make good use of your week-end, meanwhile, I'll massage your arm and warm it up.

Ready for when you're ready.

Get them ducks lined up!

You're doing good flowers

Feckthis Fri 21-Mar-14 19:37:03

You are wonderful

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 21-Mar-14 19:41:40

Er, no, you are grin

It's you actually in it and doing it flowers

innisglas Fri 21-Mar-14 19:51:20

Just read the entire thread, Feck. And like everyone else consider that you have given him umpteen chances and life is too short. If there was a basis for his criticism of you, why does he insist on coming back all the time? Obviously you are no saint, who is? but you can be unsaintly at your own pace and get on with enjoying your life. I am honestly very lazy and hopeless with housework, and I don't have any excuse, but so what, I am happy and people who love me put up with it.

Love the rabbit smile

Feckthis Fri 21-Mar-14 20:55:07

Friends who were coming over have cancelled at v last minute (excellent reason, I am not pissed off with them) so am sat here, knowing he's coming home soon (from pub) ... This all feels so final. I can't pretend I'm ok tho. He's being really affectionate and said he felt sad too (I'd said I was hurt and needed time) ... Such pressure...to cave in...but I'm trying hard not to

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Fri 21-Mar-14 22:42:28

I don't believe he feels affection or sadness.

I think he feels panic that his boat might about to be rocked.

Panic that he might have his support removed.

In case you're wondering, that's you.

Without you, he's nothing.

Without him, you will blossom.

Feckthis Fri 21-Mar-14 22:55:43

thankswinewinewine Such a long night...

RandomMess Fri 21-Mar-14 23:15:28

Goodness he's really awful sad he has done his best to keep you beaten down and submissive hasn't he sad

hamptoncourt Sat 22-Mar-14 08:29:03

What he is doing to you ( repeatedly) is called "pressing the re-set button" When he can see you are seriously considering splitting, he turns on the charm offensive and convinces you to give him yet another chance. Then as soon as he is "safe" he reverts back to treating you like shit.

How many more years do you want to waste feeling like this?

I bet you he has also seen a solicitor and has been given a wake up call about what his options are.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Sun 23-Mar-14 23:11:50

How are you *Feck?

Keep posting, whatever it is.

flowers

Why is there no <cake> emoticon? x

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Mon 24-Mar-14 09:31:29

cake?

Feckthis Wed 26-Mar-14 22:06:44

I'm here. How do I update? Will you think I failed? Perhaps but this route feels right.

I stayed strong, I refused to bow down and I told him everything I wish I'd told him until now. His emotional distance, his complete misunderstanding of my and the boys' needs, how he needs to take responsibility for his actions. He didn't know what to do, was shaken and shocked. But, after all these years he's finally agreed to see a counsellor. Not a marriage guidance one, a psychologist. And has made the appt - I made sure. And has publicly supported me in my decision to resign and focus on my art. Big steps. Huge.

I have got my legal position sorted, and financial. If he fucks up I walk and he knows that. I feel so strong, a completely new experience.

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Thu 27-Mar-14 08:57:21

No, I don't see it as failure at all.

I understand your need to exhaust every last shred of hope.

I think I had assumed that you had told him all that before.

Maybe he really has had an epiphany and will work hard to change. I hope it's not just lip service to maintain the status quo.

You deserve to be happy Feck. I wish you continued strength and lots of luck with your art.

Let us know how it goes.

Feckthis Sat 29-Mar-14 01:08:09

Thank you, that means a lot.

cake x

Feckthis Tue 08-Apr-14 00:16:26

So, he went to see the doctor and has been referred to a psychologist because the illness he has often causes mental issues...wtf? Why did I not know t his? I know it's not absolution but hey, it's useful info I should have had YEARS ago....

debbs77 Tue 08-Apr-14 00:49:39

Just come across this thread.

OP do you know that (if the dates are right) your first post was two years ago?? It doesn't sound like anything has changed :-(

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered Tue 08-Apr-14 01:19:09

Useful information that he should have been given at the time of his diagnosis too.
Was it news to him?

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