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Feeling lost and lonely (ex had an affair and left us - WE ARE MOVING ON!)

(536 Posts)
Dee34 Sun 30-Oct-11 17:20:17

Hopefully, I have done this correctly?!

Old thread here Thread1

Hi All,

This is my first post on these boards, though I have posted my story elsewhere......I just cant seem to stop thinking and mulling over things and searching for answers

Bit of a long story, but to start from the beginning, on Tuesday 28th Dec my ex announced that he was not in love with me anymore (usual cliches about being best friends, love you but etc). This of course sent me into a tailspin as I had just endured an awful xmas at his parents in Scotland that he insisted we go to (dont get on with his folks as they have never helped us out with DS and ex always seemed to avoid confrontation and would never raise any issues directly with them which made for an increasingly tense atmosphere). For background, back in November when I knew I would not be able to hack another xmas there and so I suggested we stay here and have a little family xmas, he told me that I was playing with people emotions by changing my mind and that I could stay here at home if I wanted but he and DS (2.5 years old) were going to Scotland regardless!! I guess I should have sussed that something was a bit iffy but I just brushed it off at the time (by Nov, affair had been going on for a month and actually between Oct - start of affair - and the bombshell in Dec, there was a difference in ex's attitude which I only really pin-pointed in the last few weeks). Anyway, we had a terrible night on the 28th - lots of crying, very emotional etc. I asked him if he was seeing someone else and he said no. I asked him to swear on DS life (childish I know, but said this in the heat of the moment) to which he replied no, he won't swear on his life as he doesn't do that sort of stuff but he held his hands up and promised he was telling the truth. I of course believed him as for me this was all out of the blue..On the Weds, I was quite teary and by lunchtime ex was saying that he was confused, needed some space etc. I said how about he stay in a hotel nearby and come round every day to see DS, take him out etc. I even phoned up several hotels for him to check rates and availability! This was during DS nap and by the time I had gone upstairs to get him, ex had done a spreadsheet and had decided he wanted to go to San Francisco instead. Some fluff about always liking San Fran from work trips (he has been there several times in the past year for genuine work reasons). Again, naïve fool that I was I agreed to him going. We drew up a list of issues that we would both think and work through (usual - lack of sex, though we were trying for baby number 2, arguing, his parents etc) and agreed not to tell any friends or family about what was happening until we knew what was happening ourselves so no one could 'influence' us. So ex went to San Fran and DS and I stayed here (everyone assumed he was here with us during whole period). Anyway, as soon as he was in San Fran his tone and attititude completely changed and he became very distant (he was relaxing and not looking at the issues or given them any thought etc). I finally 'broke' on NYE and asked him what was going on etc and that's when he said he had met someone but that nothing had happened between them, which was actually a lie.

To cut a long story short, he came back on Weds 5th Jan, determined not to work things out. Over the weeks I have learnt that other woman lives and works in San Fran, they met on a work trip in mid Oct last year (in a bar - only kissed - met on the second to last day before he headed back to the UK), had DAILY contact from the time ex returned home, started sleeping together during his next work trip out there in early Dec (a 5 night work trip) and that he was with her all along when he abandoned us over NYE to go to San Fran - he was having a lovely holiday, planning his life with her, whilst I was here like a muppet, trying to get an appointment with a sex therapist (as I obviously had 'issues'!). She is 30 (7 years younger than us) and had moved to San Fran from Nashville in June last year, so seems to me like there were a couple of lonely fools that met over some cocktails? Ex keeps banging on about how she is leaving her life over there (not quite sure what she is giving up bar a job and accommodation compared to what he is gambling with) to be with him, how he loves her so much, never felt like this before about anyone including me - starting to make me a bit sick if I'm honest. If you added up all the days they had actually been together from mid Oct to just before that post xmas trip, it amounts to around 6-7 days actually physically together and they weren't even together 24/7 as he was actually working on these two work trips (have confirmed with a colleague). So it was just hooking up at night and having lots of fresh and exciting nookie? Rest has been built around a deep emotional attachement from their daily calls/text/emails/webcams etc (probaby worse than having random one night stands I think). I think that even now tally of days is around 16 or so when you add on the NYE trip. But that is enough for her to give up her life and job and move here to be with him and he reckons she will be here in 3 months time (until then they will be racking up airmiles). I just dont understand it at all......I guess they are soulmates or star-crossed lovers that were destined to meet?! Everyone keeps telling me that he will one day wake up and see what he has done or that they will break up as soon as she gets here, but the flipside is that they may be together for a long while and that is something that I am now trying to reconcile with - esp as she will effectively be playing stepmum to DS even though ex doesn't really know anything about her bar what she has told him and shown him during their limited time together (of course there is the very real possibility that he is even lying about dates and that this all started way before Oct. I don't know and to be honest, don't care now as all it would prove is that he is more selfish and a bigger cheat and liar than first thought)....

Throughout all of this, ex has been going on about he need to be happy and how he has acted out of self preservation. And he has variously been unhappy for the last few months, 6 months, 9 months, 15 months, 18 months depending on what mood you catch him in when you speak to him.....unhappy for so long that I didn't notice it and yet only gets the balls to leave once he meets someone else? I can accept that we didn't have a 100% perfect relationship, but we had been together for 11 years and of course share DS so am shocked and hurt that it ended in this way. For his part, ex varies between assuming no guilt and saying that the affair was symptomatic of our relationship to wanting to do 2010 over again and make different choices and regretting going to the US over NYE and for making us go to Scotland over Xmas (apparently, as I made the atmosphere so tense for everyone, this was the last push towards making him decide to leave us.....though he hasn't commented on how his dad did his usual show of drinking 2 bottles of wine on xmas eve and not bothering to get up until gone midday so we were all sat around waiting for him as usual...).

Anyway, since then things have lurched along. He has said some horrid things to me and treated me like a fool at the best of times. I think he is so deeply entrenched in his feelings for the other woman that he has forgotten I am DS mum (again, keep asking myself, how and why can he feel so deeply for someone he has spent barely any time with?). For me, the hardest part now is facing up to the reality that I will no longer see my son every day as we move towards shared access and custody. Also hard is the fact that this other woman will be interacting with DS as and when he is staying with them. I do secretly hope that they both go back to the US (surely to happen if and when they have kids and don't think she will wait around for long as she does seem besotted with ex for some bizzare reason - her FB profile is a pic of them in you guessed it an aiprort!...) and ex only comes back here on his tod to see DS for holidays (selfish I know, but I can indulge a fantasy I guess).

Is he deluded or am I???? He has been focused on work a lot and seems to have lost a lot of his friends and social life - which I had noticed and tried to encourage him to get back up again. I am just heartbroken that he could do this to us - esp the cold and calculating way he abandoned us to go to San Fran to be with her over NYE and the fact that in the last 7 weeks our house has now gone on the market (cant afford it myself) and I am now out looking for any old job to support myself (oh, forgot to say, that I had taken voluntary redundancy from a very well paid job last March with his encouragement! When I called him up on this he said, 'oh well, but you didn't like that job anyway!!!')......
I
Inbetween all the crying and anger, I do feel like I am going crazy........This is playing on my mind a lot now as he has just flown out today to go and see her in San Fran (6 night holiday, so will take their tally up to 21-22 days or so). It pains me that he will be taking her out for meals, whereas I had to practically nag him to death to book a babysitter for our anniversary in Dec ('nagged' him, as I usually arranged everything and was in need of some attention after his work trip - of course, I now know why he wasn't that bothered...). He will be having cosy conversations and intimate chats planning their future for when she moves here and talking about our son.

Does it get better? Does anyone have a crystal ball and can tell me they wont last....??!!

And how can I move on? I have tried the whole no contact thing - which worked for a while, but then I broke and sent him a long message about how he had ruined my life.... . I have read a ton of post affair books (including not just friends) but still struggle to make sense of it all some days. I know that he will definitely not come back as he has said this several times as he no longer loves me and the deep feelings he has for the OW. Trying to be positive but it is so, so hard some days........

Dee34 Sun 30-Oct-11 17:56:47

Thanks for the comforting words - means a lot (a huge lot - that is not proper English, I know, but hopefully you see what I mean). I guess I was panicking about letting myself down on this journey by even giving them a second glance on seeing them together and at such close range (I could see that she has a pink phone or a pink skin on her phone and could see the dull and blank expression on her face as she clocked who I was....). Also, I am not used to effing and blinding at the worst of times, so really felt odd and then ex's telling off via email (McNaughty - hmm, could have been him winding me up or leaping to defence of new girlf. Either way, am cheesed off - did they expect me to just wave back? My whole life and that of my DS has changed (hopefully for the better) so that they can be together and I am supposed to suck it up and carry on as normal.....). BUT, I am putting that to bed now and going to stop beating myself up about it...It's done and I wont be bringing it up again - with him.

McNaughty - yes, when we go over the whole access thing (seems like its neverending), I plan to 'enforce' the overnight in the week and every other weekend. Also, we need to agree on holiday weeks for next year whilst DS is still in nursery, so ex can plan his life/weddings/honeymoon around that and not come and ask me about dates every so often (though this is better than before when he just booked things or accepted work trips without checking with me first). That way, at least in the week, we should have zero contact (e.g. on a Weds I drop DS off at nursery, he picks him up, has him overnight and then takes him on Thurs am and I pick up on Weds pm.....this is what happened this week - hadn't seen him since Monday pm very briefly through to today, which was lovely). I have a 2012 'family' calendar and a 2012 diary for DS nursery bag to log things in...

mycherubs - he is 37, but looks a lot older (apparently the stress of all this has aged him so he says). He has always been a bit naive though.......and I guess at the moment he is enjoying the limelight as the stud that drew a girl all the way from the US to be with him....and I can imagine that he has surrounded himself with people that will not question his actions. So he has done no wrong.... hmm

Xales - yes, I believe that (well-rid of) more and more every single day. I am hopeful that by the time reality catches up with ex, I will be well and truly moved on, as advised here, to the point where I can blissfully walk by them without giving a toss or can bear the sight of ex......I still have to look at him and just wonder what the great prize is? It boggles my mind...

cenicienta - most definitely all puff from ex regarding him many laments. Though I think he is also the type that has to save face and it would be a travesty and shame if he ditched new girlf now after all she was worth all this in the first place. I cant see him living on his own (not with 30 year old on offer) and he cant come back here, so I reckon he is off to make the best of the dirty sheets on the wobbly bed he has made. He has broken down on the phone a couple of times in the past and talked about the out of control train he is on. But, as I told his sister back in Feb, he was not my problem anymore and they would have to pick up any pieces should it come to that as I was done with the utter rejection and the assertions of 'happiness' (ex wanted to be happy, his family want him to be happy, scots friends want him to be happy and no one seemed to have questioned him on what he was doing....hey-ho).

planet - feeling much better now, thanks to MN! Even managed to avoid the choc aisle in Lidl..... smile

I most definitely need to get a new phone.....pulled up to my house at 4pm and a text from ex (bearing in mind, I did not reply to his text at 10.30am)....'Still no nap sad' (complete with sad face). Thought he had sent a text to the wrong person as thrown by the 'still' as seemed like it was part of some other convo and as said, no contact from me. No, text was for me as DS not slept yet.....ex knows that the drill is to give him a quick 30min if he cant keep him up as this has happened in the past. Something I need to add into the access plan.....Managed to pick up a couple of brochures from phone shops whilst out and am sure I have an old work phone knocking around somewhere..Will check in Tesocos tomorrow - could have this little task sorted out by lunchtime tomorrow....!!

Patienceobtainsallthings Sun 30-Oct-11 18:19:14

Dee stop worrying what they think of you,please ,or anyone else on here,you are doing great and this guy has put u through so much.Can you stop these emails.Can you ask all communication goes through sol.It just seems to me he is still keeping you hooked in with unecessary emails.can u print these off and show sol.do access thru s

Patienceobtainsallthings Sun 30-Oct-11 18:27:12

Do access thru sol and take back control.ime this is the only way to deal with these guys.he loves that u reacted today,nice stroke for his ego.why bother trying to be civilised with a wanker.i tried it for 18 mths and it nearly killed me.I would change my email and hand it all over to sol or u will be doing this for years to come.he is only trying to rid himself of his guilt and ur not his counsellor?

Hi Darling

Firstly, I really wouldn't sweat it on the mouthing words (nosey Dolly says ooh do pray tell what you did) - it was a shock - you have not done anything like that before - and frankly you are human. The only thing I would say - as you have pointed out - is that it adds to your ex's 'gosh I have two women who lurve me' state of mind that he seems to have been hoping to cultivate by his insensitive comments to you about making mistakes etc but as you also say you don't care what she/he thinks about you so, so what? I know that there is a school of thought on these boards and in real life which has its merits that is along the lines of 'don't show them you are upset, rise above it, etc etc' but whilst I would not endorse acting like mental lunatic I have always been comfortable with people knowing that I have been dreadfully hurt and upset and I was not about to pretend that I was not touched by my ex walking out in the middle of freakin' IVF leaving his 2.5 year old - and if people are uncomfortable by that show of emotion then tough shit on them. I was also having a Skype conversation with a good friend in the UK at the weekend and she asked me if I would meet OW now given he is spending so much time with my DS. I said honestly that I always thought I would meet someone who was spending time with my son but at this point in time I felt that I would not be able to NOT say something negative to her so I was not going to - similarly if I bumped into her by accident (not really likely at the moment) I am not sure I would be able to ignore or rise above. Anyway, flippantly, and no doubt may offend some people but darling, the pink skin on her phone says it all ; ) .....

Spk soon
Dolly
xx

wiseoldowl Mon 31-Oct-11 19:13:36

I agree with Patience & Dolly, so what if you lost you're rag - you're human!!

I went no contact on seeing advice by MNers & it's the best thing I did to preserve my sanity. It is v hard and am VERY tempted over certain things, but if I saw them together I know I would flip my lid. Only being Mrs Calm now as don't have to face that reality at present. You are fine, you are keeping it real and I have great respect for how far you've come already.
Keep up the good work x

Patienceobtainsallthings Mon 31-Oct-11 21:32:26

I dont mean to sound dramatic by involving sol and making personal communication with him minimal ie only on handovers.Its just that you are getting on fine without him and just when you are getting stronger he dumps all his guilt on you (emotional vampire)sucks the joy from you,his negative energies make you question yourself again and leaves u feeling annoyed at yourself .All i know is when you jump off the carousel,he cant affect you in this way .By the time I saw X with gf in the car picking up the kids (X didnt tell me she was in the car ,i was just helping change over car seats and that is how we met lol)i just looked at her and said " ru going swimming 2 ? Have fun !!!!!"That was nearly a yr since they were together and 4 mths since he finally admitted they were together but nearly 2 yrs since he walked out .It takes time and space to become that cool.Turn back the clock and at ten months into my story, you looked up ANGRY in the dictionary and there was a huge picture of ME grin

springydaffs Mon 07-Nov-11 23:33:07

HOw's everything going with you lovely women?

Dee, your expletives made me laugh! Really, who cares what he (or she - who is she anyway??) thinks. So what? He's hardly shown himself to be balanced. I guess he was, or he seemed to be to you, but he isn't any longer - that's for certain.

I didn't laugh because of the pain - no way. I laughed because it is perfectly normal to have done that; plus you did it with a metal box between you, the safest possible way. Plus you mouthed it, didn't screech it. All-in-all I think it was the safest way to express your feelings. You have been admirably controlled, in the main, and maybe it was time for an outburst. He has shamed you with the 'get over it' line - inhuman imo - dressing it up in therapy-speak <vomit>. Now really, if his line in therapy (or whatever he wants to call it) had any sense or decency in it, you would be able to see the fruits of that in him. As it is, he's a fruitcake, so I really wouldn't put much store in what he thinks. I don't think you can expect to have processed what has happened at so early a stage after the immense betrayal (s!), so I really wouldn't give yourself a hard time over mouthing e

springydaffs Mon 07-Nov-11 23:33:54

what happened there?

...over mouthing e

springydaffs Mon 07-Nov-11 23:35:44

oh gosh, my pc has gone nuts

.. over mouthing expletives at him from one car to the next. (typed that quick)

Dee34 Tue 08-Nov-11 22:33:04

Hi - sorry not been on here for a bit.....

Patience Thanks for the advice about comms. I'll certainly mention that to new sol. Though emails have died down in the last few days (though can accept that they are just as likely to ramp up again given some other trigger etc). Yes, I do need to let go of thinking about what others think of me (particularly ex and new gf). But, I just feel so awkward/embarrassed at times. I know I shouldn't as I didn't cheat/cause this mess, but I guess with the nail of them actually getting married, I felt a bit like people would be looking at me saying 'see, something must be wrong with her if he is off marrying someone else so soon'. Total madness, I know and probably not helped by the fact that we all live in same area and I am on the same technology park as ex, so regularly see people who know both of us. I am getting better - I hope...Tried a 'thump boxing' class tonight - got out loads of aggression - think there will be aching arms round these parts tomorrow.....

Wise - thanks for the very kind words and empathy. Yes, need to keep it in perspective. It was the shock of seeing them in the car, up-front, knowing that DS was in the back and I had visions of them skipping off into happy family land.....I had to live around the corner from her for 3 months and never once did I have an urge to go over there and give her/him/them what for. Wouldn't have even occurred to me to be honest....

Dolly!!! Hmmm, I dont think what I said was THAT bad on reflection really (aside from making me look like a nutter perhaps), but as many people have told me in RL and here, I guess I have been quite restrained and ex has had virtually no comeback from me (I so regret not tearing up a few of his shirts that he left lounging around his old wardrobe in my bedroom....instead, I just packed them up and left them downstairs for him after I got sick of seeing them there....). I also dont really like swearing (though ex would probably agree that I have sworn more in the last 10 months than I have done the last 11 years).....but, I may have called her a certain type of b**ch. Know my argument is with ex, but she knew his circumstances and still carried on. She was in the background (I heard her, but wasn't aware of her) when he lied to me over the phone about being in US by himself, and she was there when he nicely told me off on the phone and told me not to flatter myself in thinking he was phoning for me ages back when I wouldn't answer the phone......and yet he now says that he wishes he could have come back?! Ladies - I have finally seen the light with this player and I am out of his game....I have barely given him more than a second thought to be honest in the last few days. He is just such a different person, and not one that I want to be friends with (begrudgingly have to know/interact with for DS' sake).....so, I am back in a better place and back on the path to a new me and opportunities.

Springy Yes, thats a great way to look at it! I shouldn't care what he thinks as he is obviously off the wall and a bit....um confused? I am staying well clear and not allowing any opportunities for him to dump his emotional load on me......defo one day/step at a time on my own two feet now....

Phone rang earlier this evening. Wa ex (didn't recognise number - he has DS tonight). DS crying in the background for mummy. Heart was breaking....in the old days, I would have said bring him home. But, no, ex needs to learn that life isn't all ha ha he he* when he has DS. So I offered some comfort and reassurance to DS down the phone, but ex and his wonderful new partner can now face reality (and a 5.30am wake-up call). Lord knows what Friday is going to be like when ex takes his first day of A/L to be with DS (been nagging enough). He is taking him to London - to all sorts of places with a packed agenda (The Gruffalo and Natural History Museum ring a bell). Maybe a bit much for a three year old who would have spent the previous 4 days in nursery, but that's his decision.

Hmmmmm - dare I suggest plans for crimbo meet-up?
x

springydaffs Tue 08-Nov-11 22:40:00

I used to get a pair of scissors and cut up his (silk) socks if some of them found their way back to mine via the kids. Nobody knew and it was therapeutic.

oldwomaninashoe Wed 09-Nov-11 12:14:38

Dee, you are doing so well, I think the 'phone call with Ds crying in the background is a big breakthrough for you .
Well done, I think you are doing brilliantly, onwards and upwardsx

Hi Darling(s)

Firstly to clarify my lovely I totally didn't mean it was a shock that you mouthed something and you haven't done anything like this before etc....I meant don't sweat it, you'd had a shock and you have been so restrained as not done anything like this before so his response was super patronising. Would have done same if not worse! I think I would honestly get red mist/white noise if I saw her in my ex's car with her son and my son so thank god they are in Canberra for right now!

We are OK. Had totally bizarre week when pretty much every appliance/thing I have has broken. Its like I am running a Heaven's Gate for electrical appliances. On last count we are Car (brakes gone - now fixed), Fridge/Freezer/Hairdryer/Phone/Toaster/Kettle......am awaiting locusts and boils....Very hard financially but it is what it is. Almost funny. I remember reading in Joan Didion's 'The Year of Magical Thinking' a memoir about the year she lost her husband and daughter that in the first few months she literally could not keep hold of anything, everything seemed to literally slip through her fingers....my divorce came through on 5th (ironically 7 years to day of our first proper date when I thought I had found home) and since then everything has broken. I'm not very new agey but it is a weird coincidence.

I also went to see the Child Psychologist. Very positive move as net net he said that my DS behaviour was typical of someone going through this, I seemed to be handling in the way she would suggest, I seemed to be great mum (preens) and if anything am too hard on myself and need to let go of my ideals of what perfect family looks like and at his age the best thing for him is to make sure that I am as happy and positive and stress free as possibe. It was also good to have endorsed that the move here, baby blues/PND, two traumatic pregnancy losses and being walked out on during IVF and isolated from family etc is HUGE HUGE HUGE and I need to give myself time etc and if I liked I can see her once a week and then after xmas see if I want to get ex in to try and do some mediation on how to communciate re DS if I felt appropriate. Its great news as its free - i stopped my previous counselling as even though subsidised via GP referral it still cost and I felt I should use money for son etc so I do feel that this will be helpful and I really liked/connected with the woman.

I'm still up for meet up - throwing a date out there as know am in London for dinner the previous Friday - what about Saturday 17th December?? London??? Day or evening time....

Sue
No romantic action for me but have a crush on local ferry owner a la Nicholas Sparks novel...I think it may be the epilettes (and he is single and 40 according to a vague mutual friend...I bumped into him last night after ocean swim in local cafe bar - so looking very bedraggled not glam - and he came over to chat and we ended up chatting for 2 hours or so....didn't ask for my number though ; ( so not sure if he is just friendly or vaguely interested....

oops Sue/Dolly keeps blowing her cover

springydaffs Thu 10-Nov-11 10:02:24

Great news about the psychologist Dolly - fantastic, particularly as it's free. btw not sure I agree with you about the counselling you had - re the money would be better spent on your son: the best thing you can do for him is invest in yourself tbh - but now you've got it in a different (better?) form - brilliant.

I've had similar experiences to you ie everything breaking when I am going through intense heartache. It is wierd isn't it?

The ferry owner sounds promising! wink

Hey Springy
I do agree with you in principle its just that things at the moment (I will be relatively OK when house sells - or at least not breadline and much luckier than many in my situation) we are so skint it was kind of all of our spare money and at that point I felt like I could talk and talk for ever and nothing would help (not accurate but how I felt)....I now don't want to remain frozen in a moment of time so I am very focused on trying to make myself feel better and take better care of myself (she says sipping a glass of Reisling and having a crafty fag ; ) . I know I shouldn't feel guilty spending the money this way but now its great as I don't have to! Hurrah! I also articulated something I think for the first time outloud during the session is that I feel such guilt at not seeing our marriage was in trouble and ergo ruining my son's chances of a 'normal' family that I have been quasi punishing myself and I'm going to try and give myself a bit of a break. We will see. If nothing else its an outlet that is not boring or pushing away a friend as I try and sort through. I've also felt bad as I am aware that I could probably make comms with my ex a little easier if I was willing to be the 'big person' and not react or have the internal subtext of fuck you, you have fucked us both over I'm not going to make your life easy (as long as DS doesn't become pawn in it) which I dont' think is terribly grown up and again struggling with it and just hearing her validation (not endorsement) in that it is totally normal, totally understandable and a good sign that I am aware of it and that she will try and help me move through it at my own pace etc...sorry am sounding a bit evangelical but its been good to get out the stuff I am a little ashamed of ....

springydaffs Sat 12-Nov-11 23:29:56

That all sounds amazingly healthy and normal Dolly (hope I'm not sounding superior to say so though!). All those feelings that is. I know that feeling of talking your head right off, desperate for the heavy weight to shift, hating the sound of your own voice droning on... and on. Yes I know that one!

Perhaps for now it's appropriate to give the talking therapy a break - but keep your eye on it re get back to it when you've had a break? Sometimes it's good to mull over some things, to stop talking iyswim (it can be exhausting, particularly if, like me, you are a talker!), possibly to dip in and out? HOpefully the finances will sort themselves out soon and you'll be able to relax into counselling without feeling guilty or rushed. I'm glad she validated your 'fuck you, I'm not going to make this easy for you' feelings. Imo, no feelings are taboo - it's how we act on them is the key thing, and sometimes we need support and fresh perspectives, a spounding board, to help with that. When you're arse about tit you need someone/s to check things with, explore options..

Talking of which, I've long thought you may benefit from your own thread iyswim? One that is just for you, for you to drone on and on to your heart's content. It's good to have a partner/s in crime/agony but sometimes you also need a space just for yourself? HOpe that isn't inappropriate to suggest it - I just think it may be an idea to have a space just for you.

Lastly, I'm sorry to say it but the 17th is looking a bit squiffy for me after all - are there alternatives? I don't want to miss meeting up! (is the Da Vinci exhibition still going in December - anybody know?? check it yourself Springy )

wellthatsdoneit Tue 15-Nov-11 14:05:51

Did you start your own thread Dolly?

Just wondering how you are too Dee.

I'm feeling glum(mer). Not looking forward to first christmas as a lone parent. Grieving what I thought we had/would have I suppose. Nothing seems to help.

Hello! No not started new thread....am still in safety zone of this one. Was going to try not to hijack anymore but thought if I post we go up the charts and Dee may drop by again! Well - I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling low. I think high days and holidays are the worst and fraught with emotion and old memories and the mourning of the loss of memories you were trying to recreate. I'm all over the shop at the moment, one moment floored, then next moment feeling a bit better. Went to see 'my' child psychologist again which I am really valuing as good to have someone objective to talk to again about both myself and DS - a really positive thing for now.

I'm also quite proud of myself as at the w/end had a bit of a run in with my out-laws and stuck up for myself but in a respectful and calm way (which is a first for me as I tend to get emotional). I'll try and keep this brief but essentially I invited them to the Kindy open day. It was 'nice', I had resolved and succeeded not to talk about my ex or allude to the difficult situation I am in as a result (financial/emotional) and kept all top line and pleasant. DS a bit overexcited, decided to pull the pin and leave to go to lunch with out-laws (they asked me when they arrived if we would like to). DS didn't want to leave all friends etc and had been squabbling with his best friend as nearly 4 yr olds do....out front he was half way between crying fit and tantrum. I said come on we are going for lunch with [grandparents]. He said/shouted 'no I don't want to go to lunch I want to stay here. I was about to say thats not a nice thing to say, say sorry and come on when MIL like a CRAZY person (think tone that we have prob all used once or twice but after hideous week of no sleep/stress etc) DONT' TALK TO ME LIKE THAT EVER AGAIN OR I WON'T WANT TO SEE YOU EVER AGAIN.....I was in shock as it was so out of no-where....DS is silent then nearly hysterical....MIL storms off..I am trailing behind a bit 'wtf should I do, shaking a bit as it was so unexpected...she then turned around and SHOUTED at a nearly 4 year old 'YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND YOU ARE PART OF THIS FAMILY WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT AND YOU WERE NICE TO ME LAST WEEKEND IN FRONT OF DADDY YOU CAN'T SPEAK TO ME LIKE THIS JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE WITH YOUR MOTHER'. Again, now shaking with anger as clearly not aimed at him. DS behind my legs saying 'i'm scared, i'm scared'. I am very calm and think we need to address this so say come on DS say sorry to grandmother and lets go to lunch (we are in sep cars). We go to lunch and I engineer that FIL and DS go get bottle of wine. I then say to MIL (who is very used to holding talking stick and people are a bit scared of her) - MIL, I know children that age can be frustrating but I don't think yelling at him like that was helpful in that particular instance. however we all lose our temper (just after she said I have never yelled at him like that before as I think she was shocked at herself - but then went on to shout the stuff about family). I am more concerned about what you said to him about being part of family. That is an adult construct and honestly I dont' think you were talking to him, I think you were talking to me. I don't want DS to hear anything like that again as he is embracing a lot of change and we are doing our best. From what you said I want you to to know that I only say positives things about you both and also about ex. I believe it is important for DS to see you as much as possible with ex and with me if you would like but not if he has to hear things like that. She did concede it was an adult thing to say and quasi apologised (or at least we were both at fault -ie her and DS). However she then went onto say that yes it was important for them to see DS but also ex should be able to see him regularly and said that her daughers ex sees his boys every other weekend regardless. I had no idea what she meant as ex sees DS regularly - only time he hasn't is when he was on hols, his choice. I said this and she said, yes but you are going away for 6 weeks at xmas and he won't be able to make that time up and it is not fair on him. So. white mist at this comment. But very calmly I said (will bullet point). MIL I know it is hard for ex not to see DS for 6 weeks. However in terms of what is fair, from my perpective what is not fair is:-
- ex left us half way through IVF when DS 2.5
- i can ONLY see my family for 6 weeks
- that I cannot return to live in my country, pick up my career, and my friends
- that I am now single parent with little extended family support
- that DS does not have a full time father and will not have full siblings
- that I have to significantly reduce the amount of time I spend with him due to the necessity of going to work
- that I have been under the most tremendous amout of financial and emotional stress and have been doing my utmost to ensure DS is unaware and unscathed

She said, ex did not cheat on you he tells me it was a friend from work whom he got close to aftewards.

I said MIL, ex is your son and having my own I understand that you will always support him, want to believe him and be there for him. I respect that and understand it. I will never talk of this again with you but I want you to know that I know OW was in his life since DS was 6 months old in some shape or form, he himself told me he thought that OW had wrong idea about their relationship after a work away day and that I also saw texts and IM's that I would not dream of telling you the content of but suffice to say there is no doubt in my mind. So MIL I'm sorry to be blunt with you but I would like you to think about my perspective when you tell me things aren't fair for ex or that my parenting of DS is in someway lacking when I am doing the absolute best I can and I believe I am doing a pretty good job. So. Lets have a nice lunch.....

...no tears or shouting or raised voice from me....then surreal nice lunch talking about their holiday....they leave and whilst I am trembling for the rest of day feel proud I stood up to here in respectful way....

....and today get brief but nice email telling me the cake they bought at kindy open day (mine) was nice etc and hope we are having nice week....so - gosh long post if you have got through it well done - I feel that our relationship may be a little more respectful going forward as I think she now realises I am not dutiful daughter in law anymore who will shut up and do it her way. Gold medal for Dolly me thinks.

See Dee - this is what happens when you take a break - I waffle on for too long ; )

Finally Well - I am very much still in mourning but I am trying (with limited success) to realise that I am mourning the idea of my life and the idea of what I thought my ex was like. Given his behaviour I cannot be mourning the loss of the real him, if you see what I mean, and I need to separate them in my mind.

Big kiss xxx

ha just re-read the part where I said will try and keep this brief - FAIL!

Patienceobtainsallthings Wed 16-Nov-11 08:42:25

heard back from CSA £2.50 per child a week.Apparantley he is signing on.Thats a first.Hugs to everyone xxxx

Wow Patience I bet you can't quite decide what to spend your new found riches on.....should we start a suggestion box! Kisses

Patienceobtainsallthings Wed 16-Nov-11 23:06:01

LOL Dolly ,yeah what do i go for the BMW or THE MERC grin

Patienceobtainsallthings Wed 16-Nov-11 23:24:59

Wow Dolly gold medal indeed re MIL
I must admit I would have missed the lunch date if she had bollocked my kid ,so well done on building bridges.But i aint seen mine in over 2yrs.
And LOL at Ex telling Mumsy he started relationship after you split.....they all lie and eventually they start to believe the lies,its like fact and fiction merge into a hazy sense of reality to justify their abismal behaviour !

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