Friendships/relationships after an abusive/dysfunctional childhood

[stilltravelling]

Had a 'milestone' birthday recently. It was much as I expected apart from a few pleasant surprises (friends whom I didn't expect anything from calling me to wish HB and popping ovr with a present) and a few disappointing/upsetting things ('friends' forgetting/not bothering to call/sisters forgetting for most of the day and then sending a text).

I feel I am beginning to realise just how bad my judgment has been over the years about who is really a friend and who isn't. I can see that I have many times been fooled by people who appear to be nice/kind/decent people but who in actual fact are quite selfish, thoughtless and judgmental. I seem to get taken in by somebody speaking with a soft voice or somebody with a friendly face and assume they are nice people even though their actions over the years say otherwise.

The 'friend' who forgot my birthday is somebody I have known for over 20 years. And she has been a good friend at times but thinking about it now, perhaps we were only friends because we had something in common, we both came from abusive/dsyfunctional families. She let me down over my wedding 10 years ago, by telling me at the last minute that she wasn't coming because she was too upset that it was me getting married and not her (iirc at the time she had recently broken up with a boyfriend whom she had hoped to marry). I realise now that a big warning bell should have started ringing in my head about her at that time but it didn't. Or I ignored it. If I call her to talk about a problem she rarely listens or focusses on me and quickly switches the subject and talks about herself. She seems to have lots of empathy and compassion for certain causes and people but, I am beginning to realise, little for me at times when I need it. By contrast, I have spent literally hours listening to her on the phone about all her problems and kept quiet about my own.

I am beginning to realise she is quite a selfish, needy, person. She will not make an effort for other people but expects everyone to run around after her. She takes but doesn't give.

Then there are my sisters. They forgot my birthday too, or at least didn't remember til nearly the end of the day at which point they sent me a text. Their behaviour is just such a contrast to friends who made so much more of an effort, who made me feel so much more valued and special and important to them that I really do not know why I bother with my sisters or the friend I have mentioned above.

What I wonder about is why I have made such bad choices in making friends (there are others who I haven't mentioned who also forgot/didn't bother) and why have I been so easily fooled by a nice exterior and failed to take heed of the warning signs that in hindsight were loud and clear?

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Most of us have made bad decisions about who is a friend and who is not - I certainly have, and I had a bog-standard upbringing. Unfortunately, I'm also the kind of person who forgets birthdays and so on; they don't matter that much to me, but I hope it doesn't make me a bad person or a poor friend.

[stilltravelling]

Oldlady, thanks for responding. No, forgetting birthdays doesn't in itself make you a bad person or poor friend. The friend I mentioned above has done many other things that have upset me (including not coming to my wedding) besides forgetting my birthday. She always seems to read bad intentions into my actions where there are none ie always draws the negative conclusion or interprets things negatively. I think her childhood issues are affecting her, I know she hasn't really done any work on herself in this respect.

Wrt to my sisters, again there are loads of other things that have happened where they have made me feel they do not value me or our relationship or even want me around.

[tightwad]

Hmm, see now i am one of those people who doent see birthdays as important either. I feel guilty about this but iam such a scatetr brain and have no sapre cash anyway that adults just go by the way side.
However, i value my good friends and chose very carefully those people whom i consider close and important.

Every one else i see as, well, passing people who i know. Thats it.

People i think are inhrently selfish, i dont see what is wrong with this until it impacts on you in a negative way.

I am of the opinion that for every one person who you cannot say that you could rely on, there is probably another that you can.
Family is another matter, they are the way that they are, full stop. They have their own lives and demons.
Dont think that you chose badly, its just the people that pass your way dont live up to what you expect from them. This is probably not healthy for your mental health.

Let them go, dont let your self be disapointed, even though it is hurtful when you feel under valued. Some times you gotta just chose your battles, amke them easy to deal with, make life simple, and cut out the hard bits.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Do you need this "friend" in your life? I used to have one like that - everything was about her, she had to have constant ongoing drama in her life and when things, good or bad, happened to me she was jealous or uncaring. Like your "friend", she interpreted things negatively and eventually back-stabbed me to other friends; tbh I was glad when she did as I could then drop her without feeling bad about it.

Do you have other, good friends around? I'd really focus more on them and allow the poor ones to fade away. Life's too short, innit?

(I have a "milestone" birthday coming in a couple of years, they do make you reflective, don't they?)

[MadameG]

Hello,

I can really relate to your OP. I come from a very messed up/ abusive childhood and have also found it very hard to find good friends. I had one close friend who was exactly as you describe the friend who didn't come to your wedding- she seemed sympathetic in some ways but actually always yapped on about herself and drained me of life and joy. I think she just wanted me as her offloading-problems-device! And, funnily enough, she left my wedding after just a couple of hours with no explanation, and I was gutted. I cut all contact after that.

Sometimes finding good friends is alot of trial and error. People who can seem nice at first can actually be very selfish as you say. I think the term 'toxic friends' is a good one, because that's exactly what they're like. A friend is someone who not only seems to care, but actually does care, I reckon. I saw on my wedding day who my real friends were- I had 3 'close' mates leave after a couple of hours (one during the meal, which made me cry!!!) with no reason, and then I saw how supportive and great my uni friends were in contrast, who were there dancing away and being happy for us from beginning to end.

A friend will understand you, and respect you, and be there in a crisis, and there being happy for you through the good times. Its good that you've got some lovely friends in your life, but its time to phase out the 'toxic' friend who is upsetting you. You're not getting anything out of the friendship, so let her go. Surrounding yourself with nothing but nice people and removing the unpleasant ones will make you feel better.

Re your sisters, I have the exact same issue with my parents so I know how it feels. Families can be very up and down sometimes, and when you've had a rough childhood, its all the harder to swallow. Sometimes we always think that family should be dependable, and when its not it really hurts.

Maybe tell your sisters next time you see them that you were hurt they only texted you? Or be honest about how they make you feel? It might help to get it off your chest.

Sorry, that was a lot of old ramble!

The main thing is, I think, that you don't let the actions of others lead you to value yourself less. You come across as a really nice person and there are a lot of selfish gits out there- don't let it be a reflection on you. You deserve better.

[IsGraceAvailable]

I just wanted to say happy birthday and thank you for your topic. This something I'm working through at the moment. In a few cases my new radar works well, but overall my judgement is pretty damn woolly imo. I suppose we both need to keep practising - and I'm looking forward to reading your replies!

[OrdinarySAHM]

Hello

I probably put too much emphasis on birthdays as well. I feel quite oversensitive about things on my birthday and feel kind of abnormally grateful to get birthday cards from people. It's important to me to have it on the right day as well. If the card is a day late I think "Well yesterday is when I really wanted it and now it's too late". I know that I'm being oversensitive because I have a 'thing' about 'does anyone really care that I was born' (adoption issues etc).

I think lots of people wouldn't be as bothered. DH and his brothers just text each other (if they're lucky) and don't think much of it. Lots of times I have forgotten people and sent cards late, but knowing how I feel about this when it happens to me I really try hard to make sure people get their card on the right day. I think it is quite normal behaviour for people to forget birthdays or send cards late and might not mean anything about how the person feels about you. To lots of people it isn't a big deal. I know all this but I still find it difficult too.

It's true I think that everybody makes misjudgements about people sometimes, and nobody can expect to never be disappointed by anyone. If someone is disappointing you time and time again I think the best thing is to gradually phase them out of your life, no need for any big confrontation or drama which will make it even harder and more upsetting for everyone including you. I can see that I should have done this at times instead of upsetting others and myself more than was necessary. We, and our lives, constantly grow and change, and different people are 'more' to you at different times depending on what is going on for them and for you. Relationships phase in and out over time and I think this is probably true for everyone. Some relationships phasing out doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with you and it may not be to do with past abuse. If it is happening loads and loads though with lots of people (is it?), then it is more likely to be because of the past stuff.

[stilltravelling]

tightwad, thank you for your reply. You said that you "value your good friends". And that's the point. I thought my friend did see me as a good friend and did value my friendship, she has often told me this in fact. But then she does the sort of thing I have mentioned above, not coming to my wedding for what I saw as a very selfish reason, thinking only of herself and her own feelings and not mine, interpreting innocent comments from me as digs at her or as me being insensetive to her.

Oldlady, thank you for asking if I need this friend in my life. It is such a significant question. Because when we first became friends I realise now I did need her as I was so lacking in family and she has a manner which is very gentle and warm and sympathetic. I suppose I do not need her now. I have other friends and am less needy of friends in general due to doing a lot of work on myself and my issues from childhood. But there is something stopping me from 'dropping' her from my life altogether. She does have good points and there are positive aspects about our relationship. There must be some inbetween between a really good friend and a complete 'non friend'? Because I think that is where she belongs. I think our relationship will always have it's limitations due to her childhood issues (and perhaps due to mine as well). I think I need to have a more realistic idea about what sort of friendship our relationship actually is instead of totally believing her when she says I am a very good friend to her and one of her closest most valued friends etc. As they say, talk is cheap, it's actions that really count.

MadameG, thank you for your post and the friend you describe sounds exactly like mine. Sometimes I do feel like my friend just uses me as her " offloading-problems-device!". I think my friend has a lot of 'gaps' in her life (probably where family should be) and she expects me (and no doubt other friends) to fil these gaps. I can understand this as I know I used to do the same sort of thing when I was a lot younger. I have now developed a lot more awareness and realise when I am expecting a friend to be a mother/sister figure.

Re my sisters, I was less upset about them practially forgetting my birthday as I expected as much. It hurt more with my friend as I expected more, not a card or present, just a text on the morning would have been fine, purely because she has told me many times what a good friend I am and how she values my friendship.

OSAHM, we sound very similar. I feel very oversensetive about birthdays too. Because it a day when you really know who does care about you and think about you, when you are not standing in front of them. Even those on here who have said they are scatty about remembering birthdays say they value their close friends and I am sure remember their birthdays.

I can honestly say that I always remember the birthdays of people I really care about. I don't always send a card or buy a gift, but I always send a text/email or make a phone call. It is the thought that counts and feeling that the people who you thought were good friends have not even given you a second's thought on your birthday hurts a lot.

Grace, you're welcome . It's good to know I'm not alone in my struggles with friends. Though sorry of course that any of us should find this so hard, mainly because of a dysfunctional childhood.

[OrdinarySAHM]

You said something about having close friends, shallow friends and ones in between and I think this is what we should expect to have. I used to expect all my friends to be close friends or to become close friends and I think this was a mistake. Some people are not suitable as close friends but there are still good things about them and things you can both get out of the relationship. I think it is good to have different friendships for different things. Sometimes I find shallower friends more relaxing to be with these days, just having 'easy fun' with them with no emotional intensity. More can go wrong and you can get hurt more in very close friendships (as happened to me in the last year).

[stilltravelling]

OSAHM, yes you are absolutely right. I realise the problem with this particular friend is that I had her down in the wrong category. I had her down as a close friend, when in fact she fits more in the 'inbetween' category. She is not a completely shallow friend as there are positive aspects to our relationship, it's not completely negative where I always end up feeling hurt and upset. Ultimately I was fooled by her gentle manner and nice words and just ignored her more negative traits. Perhaps it was the black and white thinking that is a result of dysfunctional families. I saw her as 'white' when nobody is all good or bad.

Overall she is not bad and our relationship is not all bad. She and our relationship does have it's limitations though and realising this I think will help to ensure that I have far more realistic expectations about her in the future. It's also about adjusting how much I am willing to 'give' to the relationship. I have been giving far more than I have been getting and the imbalance, like all imbalances in life, causes tension, even if it's only internal, within myself.

[MadameG]

OSAHM has made a really great point there about having different types of friends- close ones, shallow ones etc. I've made the mistake before of feeling that the shallow ones (which in my case were just people to go down the pub with) should be more than they were, and were therefore just 'acquaintances' rather than friends. I got rather confused about the whole thing and withdrew from the group in the end.

But, they had their place. I never laughed so much as I did with them. And, I had other mates for more intimate times, like going through difficult things. And yes, close friendships can be hard at times, and sometimes they can become unhealthy, or 'toxic'.

You really helped me by making that point.

Stilltravelling- yes, I think you should withdraw a bit and maybe just have this tricky friend as a 'shallow' one, because she seems very demanding and draining as a 'close' one. Maybe just keep it light and airy with her, and see her less, and rely on your caring, solid friends for problem-solving etc.

[stilltravelling]

Yes, I agree about there being different types of friends. Something I have realised recently; like you MadameG, I used to feel that shallow friendships should always become close friendships and didn't see any point in having shallow friendships. But now I can see there is a place for these friendships in my life as well as closer friendships.

I definately think the mistake I made with the friend I have talked about on here was seeing her as all 'white' for many years, because I needed her so much. I just ignored the hurtful things she did or said. I think I am now 'seeing' the hurtful things she has done in the past where before I had ignored them and I was for a while in danger of seeing her as all bad, all black instead of all white. But, that is not a true picture either. The real picture of my friend should be in many shades of grey, perhaps including a bit of black and white as well. Like all of us I suppose.

Seeing people as all black or white is definately as a result of my abusive/dysfunctional childhood.

[OldLadyKnowsNothing]

Do you think now that you need her less, you are able to see her more clearly?

[stilltravelling]

Oldlady, yes, I am sure that is the case. I think my neediness meant I would put up with being treated badly by her at times. I ignored the hurtful behaviour, now I am seeing it clearly.

[lunavix]

I feel for you.

Coming from an abusive childhood, I have realised recently that I struggle hugely in friendships and relationships. I have two close friends, one of whom I've realised like you did isn't a friend at all.

And I have a number of 'friends' that either sent a fb message on my recent birthday or nothing at all, and that's it.

Makes me very sad tbh I've realised from that birthday onwards that I'm missing something required in close friendships, I just don't seem to appeal I guess.

I also have a number of issues to deal with in relationships that I shan't bore you with...

sucks, really :/

[stilltravelling]

lunavix, I'm so sorry you are having the same struggles as me.

This thing of having somebody whom I thought was a close friend but turned out not to be at all is really niggling away at me. How could I have been so blind to my 'friend' who I thought was a close friend but in reality was not at all.

I can see now we probably both felt close as we always have great conversations either face to face or on the phone because we do have a lot in common wrt our dsyfunctional families and we have other similarities as well wrt work/jobs etc. So I can see why we both feel as if we are good friends, but on her part, this does not translate into 'doing' things for me if I need her to. And even talking is on her terms ie if she's in the mood to talk, if I need to talk about a problem as she's feeling down she doesn't want to know. And the same goes for meeting up,it's always on her terms, when she wants to.

I hsve been thinking about why I might have 'fallen' for friends who talk softly or look friendly and warm. I think it might be a primitive thing, where it's the child in me which is attracted to those sorts of qualities in people, because the child in me is craving somebody to be warm and friendly to her because she never had this from her mother. I think the child in me very quickly forms an attachment to these 'friends' because she is hoping to get from them what she never got from her mother. And once there is an attachment, and the hope of somebody being warm and kind, bad treatment is accepted because the child does sometimes also recieve the warmth and kindness she is craving. The usual survival mechanism kicks in when there is bad treatment ie the feelings of anger and pain at the bad treatment are not felt but suppressed just like when there was bad treatment from my parents. I think right now, those suppressed feelings are surfacing which is why I am feeling angry at my friend. I think I need to work through my anger and for the future, I have a much more realistic picture of who my friend actually is and a much more realistic idea of what our relationship really is instead of labouring under the illusion that we are really close when in fact it is quite shallow. I still feel a bit upset that I would do more for my friend than she would ever do for me, but I am going to put more effort into other relationships and friendships which are more evenly balanced and where my efforts are reciprocated by the other person and not just accepted and taken with nothing given back in return.

[IsGraceAvailable]

Wow, that's perceptive! I'm still floundering, so no advice I'm afraid. Just wanted to say - your last paragraph: me, too!

Boundaries. Gotta keep marking them ...

[stillhungry]

Grace, thank you! I've had a lightbulb moment re my friend. I am sure she is narcissistic, not surprising given her abusive and dsyfunctional family background. I have been wondering and wondering why she so often seems to read bad/selfish/negative intentions behind things I say or do when there is nothing bad behind my words or actions and I wonder why she doesn't know me better than that after all these years of 'friendship' (over 20 years). And the only explanation for that is that my friend cannot 'see' the real me at all as if she could she would know I have never had any bad intentions towards her throughout the whole time we have been friends. I have always thought the world of her and would have done anything to help her if I could have. And I thought she would have realised this over the years. But it is obvious she is totally unable to see the real me, she is scapegoating me and transferring onto me and projecting onto me traits that do not belong to me but do perhaps belong to her parents/siblings.

For my part, I have allowed this to go on for far longer than I should have. I should have put boundaries in place long ago. I was unable to do so becaue of my own issues ie being so used to being treated badly that I didn't even know something was not right about the way my friend was treating me. Until now. Luckily, her bad treatment, on the grand scale of things is minor in comparison to how my parents and siblings have treated me and does not mean I should cut off all contact with this friend. But it really helps me in going forward to understand properly the dynamics of our relationship which will be different from now on. Boundaries, as you said Grace