What should I do about this then?

[OrmRenewed]

I'm afraid this is probably going to sound like some dire daytime TV programme but please I need advice.

I have a good friend (will call her V). I have only known her a year or so but I am fond of her. She always strikes me as quite vulnerable but I am so impressed by the way she has dealt with the tough hand she has been dealt. Pregnant as a teenager, unsupportive parents, started her own business when she was bringing up her girls, survived on almost no money for ages, a series of abusive relationships, ex restricting her access to her little boy. I know she drinks too much sometimes and i know she is volatile.

Recently she had a big falling out with her partner's ex who isn't easiest of women to say the least. And the ex has stopped her partner seeing their DD - because of V apparently. And she has also not seen her own boy for a while. She came to see me and poured it all out - how unfair everyone was to her, how she missed her boy and her partner's DD. I felt so sorry but could offer nothing but tea and sympathy. She feels rejected by all her friends - no-one is having much to do with her atm.

On Friday we went to a birthday party. The host was the brother of V's partner. Had a long chat with his wife (also a good friend will call her J) who implied that there were child abuse issues involved which is why neither V's son nor her partner's DD are allowed to V's house. And why J and her Dh have nothing to do with his brother (they are very close usually) J warned me very strongly, as a friend and as a social worker, not to let my children go to V's house without either DH or I being present - something we have done in the past as DS#2 is the same age as V's boy, and DD likes V too.

Now I am a bit freaked out. Both by the hint that my DC might have been under threat, but also by the fact that a friend of mine is being ostracised by something she may or may not have done. And even if she has done something (no details were forthcoming) I still want to support her.

What do I do?

[BigBadMummy]

Would it be possible to talk to her?

To say something like "Do you know why your ex has stopped you seeing your DD"?

What does your gut instinct say about her?

You are right to not be instantly agreeing with what is being said, and seeking to make your own decisions. Hard when you don't know the facts.

[SolidGoldBrass]

ONe thing to think about would be, who is in a position to gain from V being labeled a child abuser? Because the climate of hysteria around child protection means that anyone who wants to damage another person's reputation and/or ruin that person's life only has to start a rumour that the person is in some way a danger to children then sit back and watch the life implode. SO if you think that your friend V is no danger to children and this story is being circulated maliciously you need to help her fight back against it with a clear statement out of the facts and (if it can be worked out who started the story) the threat of legal action against the storyteller.

[OrmRenewed]

I think I will have to see her. I work full-time so I don't have a lot of time. I might ring her and arrange to see her. Problem is I do tend to take things at face value - someone tells me something I tend to beleive it as I don't see why they'd lie - but it's very confusing. And she seems very fond of my DC - not letting her see them will be hard to explain.

Would it be very cowardly to ask DH to talk to her partner - they are quite close too.?

[OrmRenewed]

SGB - I know exactly who would gain from it. And she as far as I can see is the source of the story. Problem is her DD seems to be saying the same thing and everyone is beleiving her. And how do you go about proving a negative?

[prh47bridge]

The problem with trusting gut instinct is that child abusers tend to be very credible and good with children. If you met a child abuser without knowing it, they would probably come across as someone you'd be happy to have looking after your child.

SGB is right. Some people make false accusations of child abuse as a way of damaging other people.

You describe J as a social worker. That worries me. If she believes V is a child abuser, she should have reported it appropriately and V should be under investigation. If V is under investigation, J should not be telling you about it. If V is not under investigation, why hasn't J reported her?

Getting your DH to talk to her partner may not get you anywhere. Her partner may not know about the alleged abuse or may be in denial about it.

So I'm a bit stumped as to what to suggest. Sorry.

[OrmRenewed]

That's interesting PHD - J isn't a sw now (she trained as one) but does work for social services, but I guess the same rules apply. It may be that she is under investigation but just wanted to warn me unofficially.

It's such a horrible mess. They are both my friends and I can see myself losing one or the other at this rate

[mrsboogie]

I would:

a) go back to J and ask her whether the matter is being investigated and, if not, why not. She has been a tad indiscreet so far (albeit possibly for good reasons) and so she might as well go that step further and put your mind at rest. If she has counselled you not to leave your kids alone with them we are not taking heavy handed smacking or the like smacking are we? so surely someone is looking into it? if not, and there are genuine grounds for concern, they should be.

b) say nothing to V, if abuse is going on she won't tell you and if it's not she will go bonkers

c) continue to be supportive of V but keep an eye on your kids anyway - there's not much can happen to them if you are present

[prh47bridge]

Yes, the same rules do apply to anyone working for social services. The lines are a little blurred here as she has a personal involvement rather than a purely professional one but her employers would still take an extremely dim view of her talking to you if there is an investigation under way.

It is going to be very difficult, if not impossible, for you to get to the truth. All you can really do is protect your children by making sure V is never alone with them - there should always be another adult present whom you trust. And make sure your children know they must tell you if they are uncomfortable with anything, especially if another adult tells them to keep it secret.

Through a long involvement in voluntary youth work, I've seen both sides of this - genuine child abuse and a life destroyed through false accusations. It is never easy.

[OrmRenewed]

Thanks everyone.

I am feeling like I just want to keep out of everyone's way. I saw V the other day driving down a street near our house - waved happily to me. I waved back. Not sure what I'd have said if she had stopped and spoken to me.

[SolidGoldBrass]

OK Orm, along with the other good advice, think about the individual who you think would a) gain from V being labeled an abuser and b) may be the one spreading the story. From what you know about this person is making a malicious untrue accusation something s/he would do or has done in the past? Basically because while it is reasonable for V to be investigated if allegations have been made, the investigation has to look at the accuser as well.

[OrmRenewed]

" is making a malicious untrue accusation something s/he would do or has done in the past"

Yes. I'm afraid so. She took exception to her BIL's new partner (J in fact) and made her life hell with odd accusations, quite unfounded. Split the family in two for a while. But the fact that J, who can't stand this individual, is crediting these particular accusations makes me wary of dismissing them.

[SolidGoldBrass]

I see it is difficult for you and I, obviously, don't know the people involved. IN general I would be inclined to think that where you have an accused individual who you think didnt do it and an accuser who has form for malicious accusations, that the accused may well be innocent.
WRT 'J' believing the accusations this could, of course be down to J being someone who is likely to lose all perspective when abuse of children is mentioned - or J doesn't like V either.

[OrmRenewed]

Both of your last comments might be true

Makes me so glad I only have one brother and he lives far enough away that we can enjoy a distantly friendly relationship. Families seem to be so fraught.

It is difficult. I run the risk of alienating one or the other. Bugger! Why are people so bloody awkward ?

[plimsolls]

I might have missed something but is it possible that J (and the other accusers) are talking about V's partner rather than V herself? V might have no idea about it, which is why she is so bewildered about the ostracising (sp?!).

And could J have more knowledge than she has let on? I mean, if she works in social services she may be privy to the full details which she cannot share with you, however, as your friend she wanted to hint to you that all was not well, for the sake of your children?

(also, child protection issues not necessarily to do with child abuse, could be drugs etc)

[OrmRenewed]

Hi plimsolls - I hadn't though of that! But I don't think so - it was quite clear that it was V. It wasn't sexual abuse from what I could gather. I think V's confusion might just be because she is just quite confused generally

J defnitely did know more but as you suggest couldn't tell me.