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Relationships

Need some clarity - long... sorry...

65 replies

sadstory · 02/04/2010 12:20

I really hope someone can read this and help me with what to do next, because I'm at the end of my tether.

My dh and I have been married nearly 13 years, together for 18 - since we were very young. We have two dses, 11 and 9.

For the last 5 years I have been having therapy which has helped me to realise that our relationship has been largely to blame for the anxiety and depression that drove me to therapy in the first place. I'm not blaming dh, it's been a bad dynamic from the start, I think.

About three years ago I begged dh to go for counselling and told him I didn't feel the way I should about him. I'd been away on a course and just felt so much lighter and happier, and to be honest didn't want to come back. This was also complicated by the fact that I had met a man on this course who I got on extremely well with - nothing happened - but I told dh, who then trawled through my emails and found one in which I had (wrongly, I know) been telling my best friend about this man (only in a 'coo, look at him' kind of way, but still, not good...).

Anyway, he was very upset, as he had every right to be, but we carried on trucking, no counselling, same bugbears and problems rearing their heads every five minutes.

Problems were - I wanted another child, he didn't, but wouldn't have vasectomy, we didn't use contraception so sex became a battle ground. I was taking pregnancy tests more or less every month and he knew this. Also, he works Saturdays and refused to stop even though I thought it was killing our family life and we don't need the money.

I'm not saying I was an angel - I'm far from it. I'm a stroppy shouty mare who isn't very good at seeing where she is wrong.

However, it gets worse. About a year ago I became very close to another man - I fell in love with him. We laughed so much together, he was kind and listened to me and took me seriously. In the end I told dh and he finally agreed to come to counselling.

So that's where we're at. Only problem is, counselling to me is showing up that we clearly should separate. The counsellor says that we seem to be speaking completely different languages, that I crave empathy and dh is unable to give it, that I need to decide whether I can live without empathy. Well, having experienced it with OM, I have to say I don't think I can. But dh is determined that we can make it work, that the feelings can come back if we just behave well around each other. I think this is just magical thinking. Every time I bring up the prospect of separating he just says that he couldn't bring himself to leave the children, that it would have to be me who instigated it because he wouldn't want the kids to think he wanted to leave them, that he just wants us all to be together.

So, I suggested putting a time limit on it - say, if things don't improve within six months. He said, no, because you'll be just counting down to when I leave. I suggested living apart together, he said no, he couldn't do that. I suggested an amicable split, with a friendly relationship and shared care of the children, he said he wouldn't be able to do that because he would resent me for making him leave.

I just feel I have nowhere left to turn. I can't make myself fall in love again, can I?

I just feel it's all too little too late. In the course of the therapy, dh pinpointed the last time he thought we were happy as a couple. I was amazed to hear that it was exactly the last time I was happy - almost ten years ago, when our second ds was a baby. I asked how he'd managed to soldier on for so long and he said that other aspects of his life were going ok, so it wasn't all bad. That made me cross for reasons I can't quite work out.

What terrifies me more than anything is the prospect of being trapped in this marriage and ending up having another affair because I can't get my needs met here. I've told this to dh, whose reply is something along the lines of "control yourself, then." Well, I always thought I could, but for me the affair was never about sex (we never actually had sex) it was always about emotional fulfilment...and I can't guarantee that if someone shows me kindness and empathy, that I'll be able to resist. I want to say I will, but I don't know for sure, having succumbed once before.

I can't be a good person in this marriage, but I don't want to be the baddy who ends it. I need us to be amicable for the boys' sakes.

I'm in a mess. Thanks for reading, if anyone has

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JaneS · 02/04/2010 12:34

Don't want to read and run, but I think if splitting up with your husband is what you think must be done, you should do try to exclude how you feel about the other man from that decision. There's no way you will be able to judge that relationship in any unbiased way while all this is going on with your husband.

By the way, you wouldn't be a baddie for 'ending it', but I think if it needs to end, that end should be quite separate from any other relationship starting, just to give yourself enough emotional space to be healthy.

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JaneS · 02/04/2010 12:34

Hope someone will be along with better advice soon.

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 12:35

Relationship with OM is over. No contact.

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BessieBoots · 02/04/2010 12:39

I'm sorry, but I think you should split up. 10 years since you were happy should tell you all you need to know.

Living without empathy is unthinkable- It sounds as if the therapist thought you should be apart tbh.

I'm sorry

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 12:40

I think the therapist does think that.

I just can't bear to throw the boys' dad out...I want it to be a joint decision and an amicable split.

He's saying that won't happen.

It's hard.

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 12:56

Bumping, sorry.

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BessieBoots · 02/04/2010 13:01

You'd be doing it for the boys though- they deserve to see you happy.

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GettinTrimmer · 02/04/2010 13:02

Your dh sounds like a very strong person who just needs to be in control - he decides what will happen, then that's it, emotions don't come into it.

can you go back to counselling? The consellor could help him realise it's best to separate as your differences as people are too great, and negotiate an amicable split. Of course, if you're sure that's what you want.

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LoveBeingAMummy · 02/04/2010 13:03

Neither of you want to have the blame of actually saying lets split becuase you think the dcs will hate you. It doesn't get any easier when they are older. I know someone whose parents split up when they were grown, to be with a man she ahd an affair with when the dcs were younger, its not easier and has caused a lot of resentment re the life they had growing up and how it now looks.

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:04

We are still doing counselling.

You've summed my dh up, GettinTrimmer.

I said that to my dh, Bessie, he says the boys are thriving (they are) and that what they need is to grow up with both parents around. I said they need a good relationship modelling, he said let's have one then. He doesn't get it.

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:09

I'm more worried that my dh will hate me and that will affect the boys.

I want to present it to them as "we both love you but we are just not making each other happy."

Whereas I think he would take the line "It's your mum's fault I don't live with you, she's chucking me out."

I think that would damage them.

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GettinTrimmer · 02/04/2010 13:12

I agree with you your boys need to see a good relationship, do you think they can sense/notice how you are feeling? Reading your post again Sadstory, you have been unwell. What do your friends in RL advise?

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LoveBeingAMummy · 02/04/2010 13:12

Right now he thinks he can keep this set up by saying that, would he really follow it through?

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:14

I've confided in two RL friends and my therapist.

Therapist I think is trying to build up my strength to leave.

One friend advises me to leave, but she is in a weirdly similar position, and she hasn't gone yet, so it proves how hard it is.

Other friend is single and says life is too short to be miserable.

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:14

Do you know what, LoveBeingaMummy I really think he would

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instructionstothedouble · 02/04/2010 13:15

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Message withdrawn

BritFish · 02/04/2010 13:16

its possible to be happy in a relationship, you should be HAPPY.
and staying together for the children will be pointless, as you will be miserable, and you may even end up resenting them for 'trapping' you in the marriage.
you know what you need to do.
its perfectly possible to have an amicable breakup and your kids be fine.
splitting up can be horrible for some families, but for other families they get it right, you need to show them that mummy and daddy are happier apart, that life is better apart.
dont throw him out, say that you cannot continue while you are so unhappy, you've tried, god knows you've tried, but you think youd be better apart, and that him resisting it is what will cause the children harm.
thats what a lot of partners dont seem to realise, that their resentment at being broken up with is generally the cause of all bad feeling the children see after the split. if someone doesnt want to be with you anymore, deal with it yourself, dont inflict your relationship on your children.

all the luck in the world to you, you've tried so hard, accepted when youve done wrong, now you need to move FORWARD. CHANGE is the key.

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:18

BritFish, you've just echoed exactly the conversation I had with him this morning. Were you under the bed?

He told me to grow some and tell him to leave.

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GettinTrimmer · 02/04/2010 13:19

I think you need to appeal to dh's sense of logic - if he wants to take the line you are the wicked witch chucking daddy out, follow through the consequences of this, it will affect them emotionally and their relationships in the future, persuade him to put the children first.

He may know just how to manipulate the situation to his own advantage and how he thinks you can be controlled.

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:21

GettinTrimmer - I said that to him this morning. He just said that everyone he knows with divorced parents had relationship problems when they grew up.

I said that growing up in the same house as an unhappy marriage wouldn't be good for them either.

Going round in circles...again...as ever...

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GettinTrimmer · 02/04/2010 13:26

I hope there's some way the counsellor can help him to realise that there are ways of helping the children through it and keeping them from the bitterness.

Plenty of people with parents who stayed together unhappy have relationships problems, and people with happily together parents also may grow up to have relationship problems! He sounds like he's clever at arguing.

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:29

He's brilliant at it.

Even the therapist says he bamboozles her with words.

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BritFish · 02/04/2010 13:30

SadStory
im happy that you know all this!
you need to make it clear to him that any bad feeling around the DC's is FAR more damaging than splitting up.
splitting up is not what damages children, its how each parent deals with it.
ask him how he would behave towards you if you told him to leave, does he realise he would have to be amicable or HE will hurt your kids by his actions?

how dare he say 'grow some'
why doesnt HE grow some and accept that the relationship is OVER.

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instructionstothedouble · 02/04/2010 13:30

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sadstory · 02/04/2010 13:32

I did ask him that, Britfish, he said he just doesn't think he could be friendly as he would just feel so resentful.

I said I feel like he is making out that it will be the worst case scenario to stop me from ending the marriage.

How can I fall in love with him when he behaves like this?

He's just making me resent him.

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