Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.

just admitted having sex with someone else

(556 Posts)
homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:05:53

I've never posted before, but I really could do with, well I don't actually know what I could do with.

my husband told me 2 hours ago that 4 months ago he had sex with someone else. At his works Christmas party, with someone he works with, and has seen since (taken our 4 year old daughter out with her daughter). In fact, our daughter joined the same ballet class as her daughter under my husbands recommendation, and I've sat with her drinking coffee and chatting shit.

I don't really know the reason I'm posting, I guess I just feel really sad, angry and lonely.

mrsboogie Mon 29-Mar-10 21:13:30

you poor thing - you must be in shock

why did he tell you?

JustMyTwoPenceWorth Mon 29-Mar-10 21:16:21

Where is he atm? He's just dumped this on you and bogged off out? Or is he still in the house?

I think you need time to process this information before you start thinking what you want to do.

Exogenesis Mon 29-Mar-10 21:16:47

My poor dear.

Has he said why? why has he told you?

God men can be such pigs (sorry thta probably dosn't help)

Grab yourself a cup of tea. I'm sure some Mns will be here in a moment with some better advice than make a cup of tea (it helps with shock)

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:21:29

I went straight for the wine! cup of tea sounds good though!

His parents were coming over to baby sit as I had booked a table at a restaurant for us. So he told me 15 mins before they were due. he packed some things and left.

leaving me feeling like shit, with a 4 year old who's having a bad asthma spell at the mo and a 1 year old.

all he said was 'I need to talk to you, you'll never forgive me, I'm really sorry, but I had sex with * at the works night out.' - thats it.

norksinmywaistband Mon 29-Mar-10 21:23:10

What a cock - sorry but have been in a similar situation and am angry for you.

If I were you - if he hasn't already - tell him to go for tonight, you need time to process this and decide where to move forward to.

Are there any friends locally that could come round and give you some support.

Remember he has told you this to ease his guilt burden or prevent someone else telling you.

What you now do with this information is up to you and to decide that you need space and time.

JustMyTwoPenceWorth Mon 29-Mar-10 21:23:28

He's packed a bag and gone? So he's told you this because it is his intention to end the marriage?

And be with her?

Hope you told his parents...

Feel very sorry for you indeed (though not v good at expressing it).
Um, get STI check?

norksinmywaistband Mon 29-Mar-10 21:25:36

Are your parents still coming or did you cancel them - get a mate round now.

Are the children both settled now.

My Arse of an exh told me while the DC were still awake as well - Defense on their part - you cannot scream and shout at them when the DC are around - cowards

Greensleeves Mon 29-Mar-10 21:26:12

I am so sorry, you must feel dreadful sad

I would be furious with him as well as heartbroken. Even if I could forgive infidelity (which I doubt I could) I certainly couldn't get past the cowardice and pure mean-spiritedness of the way he has handled telling you.

How do you feel about the immediate future? Do you think he is coming back, and do you think you want him to?

bossyboop Mon 29-Mar-10 21:28:34

He's left??? That is so unfair, if you are going to drop a bomb shell like that the least you can do is stick around to face the consequences and answer questions. I would want to know every last detail no matter how much it hurt and more importantly what does he expect or want to happen now. Have you rang him, I would be asking him to come back and have it out.

MrsTicklemouseWantsBunnyEars Mon 29-Mar-10 21:28:57

angry sad i have no advice just virtual hugs and wine

ElephantsAndMiasmas Mon 29-Mar-10 21:29:57

Where did he say he was going to stay? What an arse, I'm so sorry. Agree with norks - there's a reason he's told you now, either because he wants to go to her or because someone was threatening to tell you anyway. You poor lamb, did his parenst come round anyway? Did you talk to them? If they were there why couldn't you get them to take the kids so you could get a proper explanation for this.

LauraIngallsWilder Mon 29-Mar-10 21:30:22

That is awful homebirth shock

What did you say to his parents?
Have they been supportive?

Wine and chocolate are the best for the moment, no decisions yet

Except to decide what you will do/say when/if he reappears

for you - he is being an arse

MrsTicklemouseWantsBunnyEars Mon 29-Mar-10 21:30:57

i am so sorry that first face was supposed to be this shock

MrsPixie Mon 29-Mar-10 21:33:11

oh you poor poor thing sad I am just so sorry you have to go through this

no advice tbh. Have you got a friend round or your parents?
As he's walked out i'd tell him never to come back i'd never forgive my DP if he cheated, no matter how much i loved him, but then you have to think whether you want him to come back etc.

omg he just told you and then left you???????

what a twat

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:35:27

i don't think he wants to be with her. she's married too.

i think he left as he didn't know what to say (despite having 4 months to think about it!)

His mum text me a second ago to say she is shocked and sends me lots of love.

i don't really know too many people where i live as i only live her as thats where he is from. I mean I know other mummy friends, but don't really feel I can talk to them about this.

at the moment i don't really know what i'm feeling. i miss him and love him, but am so angry and upset. i always had the whole 1 strike and your out mentality, now i don't know. we have children, so i guess it's complicated. but to be honest, i don't even know if he wants to work it out.

he text a second ago (coward) to say he is sorry, but no 'please forgive me' etc etc.

i just feel stupid and so hurt. how can people do this type of thing.

in fact, what i really want to do i go round and tell he womans husband. (i know that would be horrid for him, but at this moment in time thats how i feel. although i don't blame her.) forgot to add, he doesn't drink, so he cant even pretend it was a drunked one night stand.

sorry about the rant!

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:35:43

i don't think he wants to be with her. she's married too.

i think he left as he didn't know what to say (despite having 4 months to think about it!)

His mum text me a second ago to say she is shocked and sends me lots of love.

i don't really know too many people where i live as i only live her as thats where he is from. I mean I know other mummy friends, but don't really feel I can talk to them about this.

at the moment i don't really know what i'm feeling. i miss him and love him, but am so angry and upset. i always had the whole 1 strike and your out mentality, now i don't know. we have children, so i guess it's complicated. but to be honest, i don't even know if he wants to work it out.

he text a second ago (coward) to say he is sorry, but no 'please forgive me' etc etc.

i just feel stupid and so hurt. how can people do this type of thing.

in fact, what i really want to do i go round and tell he womans husband. (i know that would be horrid for him, but at this moment in time thats how i feel. although i don't blame her.) forgot to add, he doesn't drink, so he cant even pretend it was a drunken one night stand.

sorry about the rant!

nosferatu Mon 29-Mar-10 21:35:49

AWFUL. I can only say, it is good that he told you and didn't keep you in the dark for years.
I believe we are all entitled to truth. Now try to not make definite desicions now whilst it's still fresh.

Big big hug, you must be feeling so vulnerable now.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:36:27

not sure how that appeared twice!

bossyboop Mon 29-Mar-10 21:39:07

It isnt fair to have to muddle through this without having him respond to your thoughts and feelings

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:39:39

his parents picked him up, as i told him (as he was midway out the door) that he couldn't take the car! he's staying with them.

out of all the things i was thinking, I hadn't actually thought what made him tell me tonight.

madamdelfarge Mon 29-Mar-10 21:39:45

Chuck his stuff out, tell the ow's husband and change the locks. If he wants to save your marriage he is going to have to grovel his little socks off to get you back.

whereabouts are you? you're welcome to come over here and talk/shout/cry at me about it if you happen to be nearby! i make nice cake
and i like you cos you have homebirths! lol

ElephantsAndMiasmas Mon 29-Mar-10 21:42:29

Eugh what a crap situation, all of his own making of course. Where is he? If you do want him back you must not let him gloss over what he's done. It's not fair on you and it will make him think you will put up with any old shit. Must be a friend from elsewhere you can phone? Or your family? (hugs)

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:42:31

thanks! that made me laugh!

bossyboop Mon 29-Mar-10 21:42:32

your imagination can make the whole seem a million times worse than what it is (not that im suggesting it isnt that bad, coz it is) but i mean you could be imagining allsorts of things that havent even happened but really the best thing is to have all the info about what happened and when, how long, what he wants now etc then you can deal with the facts rather than just what your imagination is telling you.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:43:57

im in the northwest (and yes home births do rule!)

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:45:01

bossyboop, i totally agree with you. how can i decide what i want, when I dont know a- what happened and b- what he wants

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:45:51

my sister is already on the train up (with voodoo doll!! - her words!)

darn, i am in the south east... couldn't really be any further away could i? lol

still, will send you some virtual cake over the internet.
do you have a good friend you can phone and talk to about it?

norksinmywaistband Mon 29-Mar-10 21:46:46

Atm I would do nothing -
Her husband may already know, then it makes you look/ feel worse than you do already.

Tonight you need to think only about you and your DC.

Take your time and let him know that it may well take a long time for you to make any decisions on anything as you are in shock.

I am going to leave the thread now as some of the things you have said are too close to my own experiences for me to of be of use to you, you have others on here who will support you through.

Keep remembering though you have done nothing to cause this it is ALL down to him and his actions. You will grow and become stronger because of this

<hugs>

oh good i am glad you've got someone coming up to be with you.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:50:33

thisisyesterday - thanks! no we couldnt be further away!! i had a good old chat with one of my close friends. i kinda dont feel like talking (typing seems to come out much easier!

exogenesis - tea was a good suggestion thanks!

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:52:05

norkskinmywaitband - thank you so much for your words of wisdom and support. take care x

Typing is often better as you can rant but in a more ordered way (if that makes sense - possibly not!)

Also sending virtual hugs - have a big glass of wine and wait for your sister. And rant away to us in the meantime (if you want to of course)

Is this woman an actual friend of yours? Did your DH really just give the bare basics of info before he buggered off? (if so, what a twat)

You're probably going to be all over the place for a bit as these things take a while to sink in. Glad someone is on their way as you'll need it shortly.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 21:58:11

yeah that is all he said.

when he left, i was in the lounge. i felt i wanted to ask him 'why' so i went outside and he'd already made off up the street to meet his folks en route.

that hurts too, i would have thought he'd at least try to talk to me. but no.

bossyboop Mon 29-Mar-10 21:58:14

In times of crisis I like the prayer of serenity, tho im not religious at all but like the message...

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference.

Its happened you cant change that, but have courage. You will survive this. Whether you muddle through and maybe go for counselling or something or whether this is it theres loads of help for single mums so dont be fretting about details and finances. Focus on the relationship which is hard as you dont know whats going on but if you need a good cry get it out your system and focus on the children they will give you strength. Then tomorrow I would be trying to get the info from him and deal with it from there. Big Hugs xxx

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:00:24

she wasn't a friend of mine in a sense. but i'd met up with her a fair amount (her daughter is the same age as mine). so id seen her at birthdays, ballet, soft play areas etc.

i cant believe she could look me in the eye all those times aswell.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:01:33

bossyboop - thanks for your message. it made me cry x

I second what bossyboop said. You can't change it, but you will be strong enough to deal with it, even if it doesn't feel like it at the time!

What did his mother say? Did you tell her exactly what had gone on? Did you have any inkling things were awry in your relationship?

By the way, don't feel obligied to answer if you don't want to. Am asking as it appears from your OP that it was a bolt out the blue. Which makes him running off down the street even more shitty, if you don't mind me saying

More of a good acquaintance then? Or bad acquaintance might be a better way of putting it

Filofax Mon 29-Mar-10 22:04:12

Homebirth I feel so bad for you, please don't make any rash decisions and drive yourself mad speculating. Get over the shock and then get answers. Be strong xx

ItsGraceAgain Mon 29-Mar-10 22:07:24

Just a hug from me too. What a shock!

Glad you have company tonight. Give it time to sink in, avoid big decisions. Eat comfort food!

xx

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:07:41

confuseddoiordonti - his mum said 'what can i say except ... and I are absolutely shocked at what ... did. we love you x'

things had been a bit tense this year (now i know why!) things had been really bad for about 2 weeks, and we had an honest (or so i thought) chat a few days ago. id been working really hard to amend the things which he said were getting him down, but he made no effort to amend his ways. i think he was trying to make me the bad guy so he didn't feel so guilty.

when he said he had something to say, i thought he was going to say he wants to leave, or he doesn't love me. for not one second would i ever have thought he would have sex with someone else. - let alone someone married!

wow my head is pounding!

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:11:17

filofax and itsgraceagain - thank you. i'd probably vomit if i ate something!!

his mother just text me again. saying she hope i can find it in my heart to forgive him. why does it feel everyone else knows whats going on except me!

Oh, you poor thing! No wonder your head is pounding, it would be more worrying if it wasn't. It's going to take a while for this to sink in and for you to work out what you feel once the shock as worn off and also what you want to do. Now is not the time to make any decisions, you've had a whopping big bombshell and need it to sink in.

Ps hope his mother kicks his ass!

SixtyFootDoll Mon 29-Mar-10 22:11:54

How awful
And what a coward he is.

Have a good hug and cry when your sister gets there.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:13:14

they are a big catholic family, so im sure his mum has kicked his ass for sure!

well done his mum!

oliviasmama Mon 29-Mar-10 22:19:09

so he dished the dirt and ran... what a load of shit. Sorry homebirth. Be as strong as you can and if you need a shoulder in the night there are plenty of us around smile

BIG BIG hugs x x

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:22:12

thanks oliviasmama. he is such a coward and a bit pathetic really. i mean, hes always been a bit immature, (hes the baby of the family and has always been treated like that) I think he couldn't cope with my sadness and didnt know what to do.
or maybe im just making excuses for him? wow - ive never had such contrasting emotions all at the same time!

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:23:53

i feel really sick now. im guessing thats a normal feeling! i cant wait for a sleepless night and having to get up with 2 children at 6am! whilst he gets to lay around his parents house.

Yes, I think it probably is a normal feeling, unfortunatley. It will get better, but perhaps not imminently (sorry!)

Being the baby of the family is no excuse though, sorry. How would he react if the boot was on the other foot?!

oliviasmama Mon 29-Mar-10 22:28:26

dont drink the wine, stick to the tea, it's bad enough the sleepless night let alone a hangover too.

what a knob, he really does sound a wimp...the least he could have done was to stick around and sleep on the sofa not do a runner.

totally spineless and very bloody selfish.

hope your sister gets to you soon.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:30:14

i know its no excuse. to be honest i don't know how he'd react if the boot was on the other foot. i mean, it seems i don't really know too much about my darling husband do i.
oh i think the anger is coming back now!! (yes my skin is turning green and my clothes are ripping at the seams!)

geordieminx Mon 29-Mar-10 22:32:35

He should be begging for forgiveness, trying to sort this horrid mess out, not taking the cowards way out, hiding behind his mammy.

Gonna take a shot in the dark here, in that I would guess one of the reasons he has told you tonight, out of the blue like this is either OW is putting pressure/blackmailing him, or her husband has found out, and he is shitting himself.

cock breath

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:33:11

sadly there was only enough wine for 1 glass!! so there goes that plan!! but don't really fancy a hangover though!

oliviasmama, you are so right. knob, whip, spineless, selfish. all good words!!

it would have been good for him to go for a walk maybe, then come back so we can chat. maybe he thought he was doing what i wanted?
(why do i keep making excuses for him!)

anger going, sadness back

Have a big rant when you sister gets to you. Talking of which, I presume she's not there yet?

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:35:35

geordieminx - before i put my post on i hadnt really thought about why he told me tonight. now i really want to know. i would guess one of your suggestions is correct. i mean, it cant be guilt as hes kept it for 4 months, over xmas and a holiday.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:36:35

sadly sister not arriving at station till after 11.30pm, so wont get to me to maybe midnight. she got the train from down south, bless her!

WillowM2B Mon 29-Mar-10 22:38:09

What a wanker. He has done a runner because he is a coward and cannot explain his behaviour and does not want to get involved in a deep discussion about it - Also, if he had not gone of his own accord, there is the potential that you could have thrown him out.

He would not have wanted that rejection and it would have "made him feel worse than he already does" (!) A cheating partner will tell themselves all sorts of shit to make themselves feel better. IME there is very little remorse, just justification.

You will find yourself making excuses for him - especially in the early days. This is someone you fell in love with, married, and had children with - its really difficult to understand the level of betrayal you feel until its less raw. Time does heal though and you will be able to make sense of it all at some point.

Pleased to hear you have someone coming up for you. I dealt with it all myself the first time my ExH cheated on me - I was too ashamed to admit my husband was unfaithful so kept it in for years and it ate away at me. (I forgave him, he repayed my trust a few years later by cheating on me again and eventually fucking off with his secretary)

Stay strong x

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:46:06

willow - sorry to hear about your situation. i cant believe you dealt with it alone.
tbh, i doubt i'd tell many friends/family (unless we do call it a day), but having you all hear is really helping. so thanks to everyone.

its just so hard to even think about now. let alone decide what to do right now.

we need to talk, and be grown ups! not (as geordieminx put it) hiding behind his mammy! although i'm sure she's given him what for!

i just feel so drained. its probably the worst feeling i've ever had (and my mum died when i was a little girl, so i know pain!)

its funny (in a not really kind of way), the other day i had a frank conversation with him about how when i was a child i felt really unloved, as my mum died, dad was working, got re-married to someone who used to hit me etc etc. so i was saying that all i crave in life is to be loved. i hope he felt like shit after i told him that.

oliviasmama Mon 29-Mar-10 22:46:29

on the choice of words homebirth....I've had a lot of experince! grin

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:48:07

men really are dicks aren't they x

oliviasmama Mon 29-Mar-10 22:50:38

mine was, still is, unfortunately still love him but am working through it, thats another story, a dull one at that. chin up.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:52:08

oliviasmama - how did you forgive? i dont cant imagine ever being able to stop thinking about what hes done. but i do love him.

ItsGraceAgain Mon 29-Mar-10 22:52:26

You know what, you're funny.

It may be defensive/gallows humour, but I'm bloody glad to see it! Keep that spirit strong, Mrs Hulk wink

Have you got that stupid white noise (like TV interference) in your head?

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 22:55:43

itsgraceagain - thanks!! I think i may change my name to mrs hulk, but that would imply i'm married to mr hulk and i think we can all see thats clearly not the case!

and yes, i do have that white noise in my head, i just assumed i had super sonic hearing!

oliviasmama Mon 29-Mar-10 22:57:44

no I haven't forgiven him, we've split up. I can't forgive him and IMO you dont stop thinking about what they've done, but thats only me, it's been my choice, I know a couple of relationships that have worked their way through stuff like this.

be brave smile

Jajas Mon 29-Mar-10 23:01:01

I don't know what to say, how awful and devastating for you sad.

What a lovely sister you have though, bless her smile.

Really thinking of you, I bet it just feels like a bad dream at the moment sad.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 23:02:06

oliviasmama - thanks for the honest answer. in my heart at the mo i want to work it out, but in my head i don't think i could ever trust him or forgive him. it just makes me feel physically sick to think what he did.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 23:04:47

jajas - totally feels like a bad dream. its so surreal i really do feel like im only half present if that makes sense. i wish i could wake up and for things be back to normal (pre xmas normal clearly!)
my sister is super indeed!

Jajas Mon 29-Mar-10 23:08:19

Have you rung him? I think I would want some answers so badly that I couldn't help but try and contact him. Really hope you get some sleep tonight sweetie.

xx

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 23:10:15

funnily enough i just text him. i cant bear talking to him on the phone, but i want to know what made him tell me. ill await an answer and my sisters arrival, then hope to sleep!
i am so shaky!

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 23:12:16

ok that answers that question.

he only told me as her husband found out.

now im miss hulk again

Jajas Mon 29-Mar-10 23:15:00

Jeez that's worse isn't it? Wonder how he found out? God what a nightmare for you angry

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 23:17:01

yeah that does seem worse. its not, i told you as i had to be honest or anything. the fact he would have kept it from me forever, always being an arse and blaming me for his behaviour (thats what he's been doing for the past month or so)

im not sure where i can go from here

AnyFucker Mon 29-Mar-10 23:19:34

I am so sorry to see this, hbm x

ItsGraceAgain Mon 29-Mar-10 23:22:15

What an absolute bummer. I'm very angry on your behalf! Bless your sister, she should be arriving soon? You'll have someone to grrrowl with (and sleep with.)
All the best, my love.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 23:27:13

he has just sent me the most pathetic after thought text i have ever read - saying, along the lines of 'but i also told you as i felt so down, i didn't want to live a lie any longer'

how self centered.
so he told me as her husband found out, and as an after thought, because he felt down!

wow! he was really thinking of me then!

sister due any time now. head spinning.
not replying to any of his messages.

thanks so much for all the support everyone xx

WhenwillIfeelnormal Mon 29-Mar-10 23:30:25

hbm - Come back tomorrow if you can, as there is so much we can do to help you make sense of what has been happening to you in recent months. I noticed he's been blaming you and creating arguments - all classic affair distancing behaviour. Hope you can let it all out to your sister. Really thinking about you tonight. That feeling is bloody horrible and it will seem like a bad dream for a while.

blinks Mon 29-Mar-10 23:30:33

sounds like there's more to it than one shag.

sorry x

groundhogs Mon 29-Mar-10 23:34:01

HBM, a huge hug from me, your sister will be with you shortly.

Don't panic, sounds like his parents'll give him a good pasting.

He is an arse. Be strong.

homebirthmummy Mon 29-Mar-10 23:39:56

whenwillifeelnormal i will be back tomorrow for sure! he most certainly has been creating arguments and blaming me for then. and doing the whole, its not what you say, its how you say it thing. he's also been away from the house for hours (but he's doing a masters so that was the excuse), however not much of his masters has been achieved. So you and blinks, i think you may be right and it may have been going a while.

i need to get to the bottom of whats going on.

if it happened more than once, i can tell you right now there will be no forgiveness. that is for sure.

sister in a taxi so nearly here.

i couldn't have waited without the support from you all xx

be back tom to update!

mathanxiety Mon 29-Mar-10 23:40:23

self-centered twat, first class. And I agree with Blinks that what you've been told is the tip of the iceberg. The number of men who've done the deed 'just once' and then turned everyone's life upside down as a result is astronomical. Poor tortured souls....

And also, what's his mum doing texting you and begging for you to forgive him? Big Catholic family is what my ex came from as well, and he did something similar to what yours has done, so I warn you to watch out for your MIL and expect fickleness.

Take care of yourself, he doesn't deserve you. Don't deflect your anger at the OW. It's the H who has hurt you.

AnyFucker Mon 29-Mar-10 23:43:36

I agree with math

your MIL should butt right out

her loyalty is with jack-the-lad there

no way should be "hoping you can forgive him"

emotional blackmail so early ?

tell her to look after her little boy and keep her nose out out of your feelings

Over40 Mon 29-Mar-10 23:54:10

God, it feels like you have been re-writing my story! My heart goes out to you but you WILL amaze yourself how strong you can be. Just a word of caution. MIL will almost always put their sons first... No matter how much she bollocks him, she has taken him in. My MIL phoned me a week after he left and told me "In the long run you will see it is for the best". Turned out she had known all along as had all his friends. In the words of the song...I was the last to know!
Not suprised he ran off. If you are the sort who cheats then you are spineless and can't deal with confrontation. Just imagine him like a 4yo who has just admitted it was him that ate all teh cake! They run away as well!

blinks Mon 29-Mar-10 23:54:25

'i hope you can forgive him'

should read-

'i hope you can pretend this never happened'.

mathanxiety Mon 29-Mar-10 23:57:37

<Over40 shock That was one of the worst things about my experience, as far as I was concerned -- the exILs had known for a whole year. Humiliated is not the word for how I felt.>

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 00:10:53

Math - how horrible for you. And whilst I agree that HBM should not divert all the blame on to the OW, in these early days especially, she is entitled to feel a huge measure of anger towards someone who chatted to her and socialised with the DCs all the while she was having an affair with this poor woman's husband. That really does take a particularly nasty sort of woman angry

At least her chickens have come home to roost if her H has found out.

oliviasmama Tue 30-Mar-10 00:13:58

GOD WHAT A SHIT!!

Hope your sisters with you now, so glad she's come to you.

x x

kittya Tue 30-Mar-10 01:02:00

I really hope her husband kicks her out. Be very wary of the MIL, they cover for their boys so much. Especially if she is really into being a good catholic. Bury her head in the sand.

God what a shit! Dropping a bombshell and leaving you on your own to deal with that and the children!

Glad your sister has come to be with you. Hope you're feeling ok this morning and managed to get some sleep last night.

Please take care! smile

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 09:02:09

Didn't get much sleep last night.
I feel sick today. Really horrible.
I don't really blame the OW, as I know things always work both ways.
It was the saddest experience going to get the kids this morn. I just held my (almost) 4 year old and silently cried. Thankfully my sister is here.
Think it is off my MIL was asking for my to forgive him. He's not even asked/begged for it.
We'll see what the day brings, but I know it's going to be hard. I just feel like I don't know what to do or what's going on.
It's the most horrible feeling. I don't know how any of you who've been through, manage to get through it.

WhoIsAsking Tue 30-Mar-10 09:05:01

hbm, you've got to go with the feelings I'm afraid. It is horrible, and you've got to be really kind to yourself.

Take it one moment at a time.

thinking of you.

fortyplus Tue 30-Mar-10 09:11:57

Trying to think of something positive to say...

He has been cowardly but at least has expressed regret and an understanding that you cannot forgive what he has done.

The truth is that maybe you can forgive - what you can't do is forget.

This is a terrible breach of trust and he's been living with the guilt for 4 months. Be under no illusion that this has been an ongoing affair - otherwise how would OW's husband have found out?

In a way he has been brave to finally face up to what he's done and tell you before risking you receiving a phone call from OW's husband.

So... a 4 month affair... to you as the loving mother of his children it's inconceivable that he could have done this. But people do embark on affairs and kid themselves that they aren't hurting anyone. What the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve over etc.

So without for one moment condoning what he has done - think hard about your feelings for him and whether you want to save your marriage. It sounds to me as though you should. You can work through this together if he is truly sorry.

Glad that you have such a supportive sister - she will be a rock to you in the weeks ahead.

Whatever you decide... don't be hasty. View this as a failing on his part rather than a willful act of hurting you.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 09:28:13

I text him this morning as i wanted answers. i couldn't face speaking to him or seeing him. i asked him to email me and this is his reply (sorry if its long)

how many times

twice on one night on staff night out

how did it all come about?

i was texting her for a few months on and off and then we went out with work and it was at the hotel where we were..she was drunk, and it was a terrible thing and knew how wrong it was.

why did you do this to me and kids?

i dont know why i did this, as i say, i would never hurt you or kids intentionally and i dont know if it was over last 6months or so i have just felt so down and like i was a robot and didnt exist, for someone to understand me i saw that as me being myself. i knew it was wrong and i have lived with the guilt for a few months because i knew what hurt and pain it would cause you..the very thought of breaking your heart is the last thing on earth that i wanted to do..and since i said to you last week i was unhappy, you really have been lovely and i was seeing you why i fell in love with you but the guilt of this mistake was affecting me and i knew it would destroy you and trying to erase it from my brain i thought would be easier than telling you..

how did her husband find out?

her husband just rang me, he told me he knew weeks ago about it from her friend.

would you ever have told me?

i was going to tell you but i knew it would destroy you so i knew there would never be a perfect moment for telling you such devastating and horrific news.

how could you get in to bed with me afterwards?

you were asleep and i looked at you and said im sorry, i couldnt sleep that very first night, and many nights afterwards.

have you been in contact with her since?

i have briefly seeen her in work but nothing else, we both knew what a mistake it was and what we had to lose.

who knew about it?

3 work colleagues knew, one of them told him,rightly as she was his friend as hers.

and what now?

the only thing i want to do is to be with you and the kids, and beginning to try to earn your forgiveness, i know it wont be easy and truthfully i dont ever expect forgiveness.i am truly and honestly sorry, and i would do anything to be forgiven.

toldyouso Tue 30-Mar-10 09:41:42

turn off the phone for a day and just BE for a while.
let him stew on it...

just take care of yourself today.
You don't need to make any decisions just now

You'll know how you feel later...

morningpaper Tue 30-Mar-10 09:45:10

aw homebirth mummy

just big hugs to you

and just wanted to say how wonderful your sister is - her coming round shows you that you really really ARE loved, and that is a wonderful thing

good luck with the next bit

xxx

countingto10 Tue 30-Mar-10 09:46:30

You can get through this if it is what YOU want. It is almost a year to the day when my DH walked out on me and our 4DSs to go to OW. We are now back together with a better marriage, more honesty etc, a more "grown up" relationship.

Do you love him and want to work things out ? You will never forget this but you can get through it. The presribed reading is "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glas and anyone who has been through this recommends this. Me and my DH went to Relate for weeks, it helped us both understand how the affair came about, we both had to change but DH has had to change the most basically grow up and take responsibility for his actions. This change has come over the last year ie not immediately. There are many ups and downs, 2 steps forward, one step back etc. I felt I owed it to my DC to give my marriage a chance, to do everything I could before throwing in the towel.

All contact with OW has to cease, he has to be an open book to you now (a person with nothing to hide, hides nothing), free access to mobile, emails etc (my DH had a second phone BTW).

But this is about what you want, if you can't get through it/past it then that is OK too. I had a friend who asked her H to leave evertually because as she put it "I couldn't even look at him in the end".

I pleased you have your sister there, my sister was a rock to me at that time, I was on diazepam for a week I was so traumatised. Lost about 2 stone in 6 weeks. Lived on sweet tea and biscuits.

Good luck and keep posting.

Im so sorry,
What horrible thing. Affair always bring hurt to everyone involved. I cant imagine myself in your shoe at the moment. I dont know if i will ever forgive and forget. But its your life and your desicion.
Good luck.

blinks Tue 30-Mar-10 09:48:53

yeah, take your time. don't let anyone pressure you to do/say anything.

fortyplus Tue 30-Mar-10 09:50:26

I think that's quite an emotional outpouring.

Actually I think maybe you would feel better to meet with him to clear the air a little. Can you leave the children with your sister and meet him somewhere quiet/discreet to talk about this? Even if it's just somewhere you can sit in the car to talk.

Otherwise you're going be be stewing over every word all day. You need answers.

I'm still not conviced that this was a one-off incident. Tell him he needs to be 100% honest and tell the whole story now. Otherwise if you discover more at a later date you will never deal with it.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 09:52:16

thanks everyone. i just don't know what to write back. i have so many comments about what he said. im in the middle of composing a message but its turning really angry. i'm not sure if thats a good thing or not. perhaps i need to say it all to get it off my chest? and maybe he needs to hear the repercussion of his disgusting actions.

countingto10- in glad you have managed to save your marriage. part of me just wants him to turn up and give me a hug, the other part doesn't ever want to see him again.

i will make sure he arranges counselling either way, his mess he can take that step, right?

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 09:53:50

fortyplus - you are right in all you say. i feel so confused and numb

MrsTicklemouseWantsBunnyEars Tue 30-Mar-10 09:55:58

i agree witoldyouso, i would give it more than a day though, don't have any contact, other than maybe text/email, for a good few days, wait until you have started to get control over your emotions and feelings, decide if you could live without him, your marriage will never be what it was and they wil almost certainly impact on the children

my DH slept with someone else 6 years and i have never truly forgiven or forgotten, its not ok on a day to day basis but i am always suspicious now and it comes up in every arguement, it is very hard to live with the pain, now 2DSs and a lot of arguements later we are on the brink of a divorce that should have happened 6 years ago

i'm sorry to put even more of a downer on things

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 09:58:45

mrsticklemouse, thanks. sometimes you have to honest and realistic even if it hurts.

countingto10 Tue 30-Mar-10 10:12:53

HBM, you really do need him to be completely honest with you, until you know what he has done etc, how do you know if you can move on ? My DH kept some vital facts back (so as not to hurt me even more hmm and because it was all so vile) and when he eventually told me it was like discovey day all over again.

You cannot get past infidelity without going into the reasons why etc, with the betrayer looking at themselves etc. Try this site - it's a bit "american" but the articles are good and it helped me when the affair was all I could think about, it helped me understand a bit more if that makes sense. It's hard to make sense of nonsense though smile.

You will go through every possible emotion, it's best just to go through them, don't try to bottle things up, get upset, get angry etc.

The best advice is don't do anything drastic for 3 months, when everything is calmer and the initial shock has worn off. Get some legal advice as well, you don't have to do anything it is just advice but it helps to have some knowledge and control.

My DH left OW after 6 weeks and then stayed at his mum's for another couple of months. In that time we worked on repairing the damage, going out on dates etc, he stayed a couple of nights a week to help with the DC (they were very traumatised by things (16, 9, 7 and 4)), we went to Relate and kept in constant touch but we did need some time apart.

You have to do what is right for you and nobody else.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Tue 30-Mar-10 10:13:58

HBM, I agree you should just not reply for a while, maybe meeting up later today would be a good idea instead. You have a perfect right to demand (when you meet) to check all his phone messages and emails, and if possible speak to the work friend who told OW's husband. They will know what is going on. Surprise him with asking to see phone etc and don't let him put you off til tomorrow when he can have deleted everything (if not already).

Heartfelt as his message sounded, I would greatly doubt it was a one-off too, I would think the emotional part has carried on if not the physical side. Surely it's impossible (as he suggests) that you have spent more time with her than he has, since it happened? Who arranged the meet ups with her and your daughters? That is one of the most nauseating parts of this IMO.

mampam Tue 30-Mar-10 10:16:16

I agree with Fortyplus - there's definitely more to this story than he's letting on. If they both felt bad about it afterwards and as guilty as he says then why did they feel the need to meet up with DD's?
Surely if they felt so bad about it they would have just stayed out of each others way?

Plus the texting sounds a bit dodgy beforehand.

ladylush Tue 30-Mar-10 10:18:02

You poor thing sad Even though I have been in your shoes (but h didn't confess - I found out), I can't offer much advice. You have to decide if you can work through this or whether he has totally crossed the line. Although h and I worked through it, I still think about his infidelity every day (and we are two years on).

fortyplus Tue 30-Mar-10 10:30:14

homebirthmummy - you have entered into a grieving process just as though someone has died. The first stage is shock/disbelief/numbness. The real anger and pain is yet ti come. I do think from what he said in his e-mail that you stand a really good chance of working through this if that's what you want.

Remember... he has failed spectacularly in his duty as a husband and father, but it doesn't necessarily make him a bad person. We all make mistakes and this is a huge one, but he clearly wants to move on and is showing a clear understanding of how you are feeling. That's an excellent start imo.

Good luck - and use your sister's support. She will willingly give it and you need it. smile

Karmann Tue 30-Mar-10 10:39:05

HBM it is possible to get over this. You will go through every single emotion there is - possibly all at the same time, it is so confusing and consuming.

Although he is saying it was a one off at Christmas there was clearly a build up to it - do you recall any change in his behaviour at home before the Christmas party?

I too was of the opinion if it ever happened to me he would be out the door - the reality is very different. We are still working through it and it is a hard route to follow but it is achievable. It takes a very long time to work through this, for the mental pictures to fade, for the horrible thoughts to diminish but it is possible. To me, the bottom line was 'Do I want to be with him or without him?'

You are coming across as remarkably strong and I would urge you to hold on to that strength. Although you do not feel it, you are doing really well.

Prinpo Tue 30-Mar-10 10:39:28

HBM, I've just read the whole thread through and wanted to say how sorry I am. I would reiterate the need to give yourself as much time as you like. Work to your own timetable and no-one else's.

Over the next few weeks you'll get so much more information, not just about what happened but also how he talks about it and what he says about your relationship. I hope that will help you to decide where you go from here. It's really early days and there's no pressure to make any decisions other than very short-term ones.

I noticed he has blamed you for things in the relationship over the last few months. That's likely to have left you feeling pretty shitty, even before you found out about the OW. The fact that he has slept with someone else is a failing of his and his alone. If there were problems in the relationship (as there are in any relationship) then they should have been dealt with IN the relationship. The fact that he was unhappy is no excuse. He failed you, he failed your children. He really needs to understand that and not make excuses. I agree with fortyplus that he needs to understand how important it is that he's completely honest with you now. It's kind of a one chance thing.

Whatever you decide in the long-run, remember that you can only make the best decision based on what you know and how you feel. You can't see into the future so if you make a decision that doesn't turn out well then so be it, don't beat yourself up about it (I'm thinking of those cases where people carry on after an affair only to find their partners have done it again).

You may not feel it, but you are stronger than you realise. You're clearly fabulous, I hope he realises what he could lose. We're all around for you.

Xales Tue 30-Mar-10 10:39:59

First things first. Please make an appointment at the STD clinic and get yourself checked over.

She may have been drunk but you have said he doesn't drink. Although drink is no excuse he knew exactly what he was doing.

He didn't tell you because he didn't want to hurt you. Yeah right............ until he had no choice because he had been found out by her husband.

Now he has told you so he is 'being honest'. Nice little halo he has there, sod that your heart is breaking he can look himself in the mirror with no guilt because he has come clean.

I don't think he would have told you anything if her husband had not found out, they would have carried on.

Read some of the other stories on here if you haven't already. It was one kiss, it was a cuddle on the bed, then it was we slept (fully clothed) but nothing happened, then sorry yes but it was just the once, finally you find out they have been shagging like rabbits in lunch hours, after work, when ever they can basically.

He has had four months to think this through at least, if not longer if the texts were pre sex.

Don't make any decisions until you are ready no matter who pushes you even if that takes you four months or more.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 12:39:08

xtales - the thought of going to a std clinic makes me feel physically sick. but a valid point.

it really does feel like i'm grieving. its hard trying to stay strong for the kids though.

prinpo and karmann, thanks for your messages too. as my nan always said, you have to keep your chin up even if your necks dirty!

i kinda feel a bit better that (even of it was preempted by texts etc) it did only happen on one occasion.

its hard when you love someone as you kind of make allowances don't you? i guess maybe thats what happens in abusive relationships - sorry a bit of a side thought.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 12:42:03

am i supposed to feel forgiveness already? I kind of do, but i do keep flitting between emotions!

WilloughbyWallaby Tue 30-Mar-10 12:44:22

Oh dear, HBM I really feel for you. Firstly, I hope WhenwillIfeelnormal comes back, she is fab with stuff like this, especially as there's his actual email in this thread.

Secondly, reading that email, I have to agree with some of the others that there must be more to it than he's so far let on. Texting pre-event is really off and suggests maybe not deliberate premeditation, but definitely that he knew something was happening. He should have been honest with you then, but as he wasn't, I think it's most important that you have lots of time to yourself before going back for any more information, or discussion about how to move forwards.

You need to remind yourself that you can be on your own, in case it does come to that. It will make you feel stronger.

IME, the semi-grovelling at the end of the email is really just a token. Sorry if that isn't what you want to hear, but it is at the end, it is an afterthought, almost. If his pleading doesn't work, get ready for more blame being put onto you. He will shift from begging forgiveness and professing love to shouting, blame and bullying, to see if that will work instead.

I would be very dubious of him at the moment.

Lots of hugs, and remember that you are a strong woman. HE is answerable to YOU, not the other way around. The moment you start to feel as if he is attacking you, remove yourself.

xxx

WilloughbyWallaby Tue 30-Mar-10 12:47:01

Sorry if that was a bit strong, just feeling very angry on your behalf.

HoopsAndBelly Tue 30-Mar-10 12:48:43

homebirth I found myself in a v similar situation as yourself about 5/6 years ago, my ex-h told me he'd had sex with my sister before we were married.........I was absolutley devestated but took him back when he told me how sorry he was etc etc........anyway I couldn't get it out of my mind and every time I closed my eyes that's all I could think about...it eventually turned me into a very withdrawn and completely different person, so I left him and found myself a good bloke, best thing I ever did........you need to give yourself time and really think about it, your right in what you say about if you love someone you make allowances for their behaviour.....hope you are feeling ok and having your sister is helping you.....my thoughts are with you.

Karmann Tue 30-Mar-10 12:51:49

You will flit between emotions almost on an hourly basis. Anger, sorrow, grief, hurt, disbelief ... the list goes on so please don't expect too much of yourself. Even though it was once, it's still incredibly damaging. It makes you question everything and you'll probably tie yourself up in knots going over things in your mind.

Please give yourself some time, you're still in shock and other feelings will kick in later.

It is hard when you love someone but you can't make these kind of allowances for them - if you do that you are almost saying to them it's ok to have done it when it's not.

Talk to him when you're ready to and don't put any pressure on yourself as to when that may be. You are doing really, really well. (And I love your nan's comment!)

Malificence Tue 30-Mar-10 12:52:19

He was sober, she was drunk?

What a charming individual he sounds.hmm

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 12:54:09

WilloughbyWallaby - thanks for your honest opinion. it certainly does look premeditated. i'm not so bothered with a bit of non intentional flirting, but when intention is involved thats different.

i felt the same about the after thought. i emailed him back with red all over his email with my comments and feelings. i know that was probably unwise but i needed to get what i was thinking off my chest.

i also felt he was very self centered and blinded. he loves making excuses, and i think that is demonstrated in his mail.

i do feel strong, but i also miss him. or maybe i miss how it used to be and i guess thats gone forever.

he just text saying'can you give the kids a hug from him'
then second text directly after 'i love you'. i mean if thats not an after thought i dont know what is!

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 13:04:07

hoops - what an horrendous experience. thats betrayal of the worst kind isnt it. glad youve found a good man now x

karmann - so you are right. i dont want him to think that its ok he did it.

he just text saying i deserve better than him. and you know what, yes i do!! but you cant help who you love. i mean (he is actually a lovely guy, which it was such a suprise, so out of character)

Malificence - i know, thats gross isn't it! i think he clearly instigated it

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 13:07:54

hbm...the most important thing he can do now is to be completely honest

if he doesn't come clean...and more comes to light later on, it will be like going through this all over again

but worse

I would be working on the assumption that you do not know the whole story...and he is telling you the minimum he thinks he can get away with

tbh, his previous actions kinda point to that, don't they ?

I second those who said to give yourself lots of space..you are feeling in need of comfort but he is not the appopriate person to give it to you

don't be pressurised into anything, especially by his family

you hold all the cards, now, lady

you decide how it is going to be

he must be completely transparent, he must tell you the whole truth...he must show you by his actions, not by pretty words, that he takes full responsibilty for his actions

he isn't doing that yet...but he might just step up to the plate if you make it clear you are taking no responsibility and that you are definitely taking no bullshit !!

all the very best to you...and take your^ own sweet time x

HoopsAndBelly Tue 30-Mar-10 13:08:57

yes it was at the time but I moved on, which is what you can do in time.......thing is he has done it once, whats to stop him doing it again?? Men like this are pigs and do not deserve good women like yourself, you sound like a strong woman and I hope you can be strong and do the right thing

gonnabehappy Tue 30-Mar-10 13:10:50

Remember, he will be feeling (quite correctly) like a piece of shit that is the lowest of the low right now. The only way he can rationalise his betrayal is to blame you; at least to some extent. I endorse what everyone is saying. Give yourself lots of time and be kind to yourself.

I let my husband come back too soon. I don't regret letting him come back but I do regret not taking more time for me. I am not sure how long you have been married but I do know how easy it is for your whole identity to be caught up in family/spouse/children (and I write as someone who has worked in academia throughout). I wish I had taken more time to build myself a more independent identity before working on the marriage.

You will get loads of advice here, things to do, read and say...time for you is the most important in my opinion. x

WilloughbyWallaby Tue 30-Mar-10 13:10:56

I don't blame you re the email, I'd have done exactly the same thing. Allow yourself a few angry moments with him, but honestly, the best thing to be, when dealing with him, is cool and collected, even if it's the last thing you feel. It will throw him and make sure you have the 'upper hand', as it were. Release the anger on MN, or with people like your sister.

I hope you're making time to be very, very kind to yourself.

BelleDameSansMerci Tue 30-Mar-10 13:24:42

Sorry, HBM, but I'm going to second what AF has said here. I don't believe you're getting the whole story at all. I really think he's only told you what he needs to to protect himself. He's only told anything because the OW's husband found out.

As for having nothing much to do with her, that's not really true, is it? She's in your lives - you've chatted with her, for heaven's sake.

Honestly, cool, calm and collected is the best approach (obviously) but I think a fair bit of fury might be beneficial to getting the whole story. Then, honestly, ignore him until you have your head back together a bit. It will keep you safe while you decide what you want.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 13:27:00

well i think i have got to the bottom of whats been going on.

they started texting end of last year, nothing in it apparently. he was unhappy (although as far i was aware, we had a super holiday etc, all was well) and xmas night out, well you all know what happened then.
apparently for next 3 months they thought they really liked each other and were texting etc etc.

her husband saw the texts and made her stop (he contradicts himself a bit here saying the husband text him in feb and then he says the hubby called yesterday)

then he realised it was me he loved, not her - when she stopped it with him. im now back to the whole 'you're a twat' mentality!

teaandcakeplease Tue 30-Mar-10 13:31:54

Just done a speed read through your thread. My husband cheated on me and didn't have the guts to even tell me. Found out the hard way, we're still trying to work through things as with 2 young children I want to be sure I've tried my best before throwing in the towel.

Give yourself 3 months to process things, before making any major decisions IMO. It's good you're having space right now. He probably did run away after, as he was being a coward after telling you sad

The best advice I can give is read this book. I've certainly found it very helpful and so have a number of other mumsnetters too.

Take your time to come to terms with this, try and do nice things to treat yourself and try and rest when you can, take any offers of help with babysitting etc.

BelleDameSansMerci Tue 30-Mar-10 13:32:42

I found out something similar (although circs quite different) lately. My response was "Right then, who shall I shag? I reckon I'm owed about 3. So the choice is, someone three times or three random shags. What do you recommend?". Obviously, very, very childish but very satisfying...

How are you feeling though? He is, quite clearly, a twat.

teaandcakeplease Tue 30-Mar-10 13:35:25

Your feelings are completely normal, especially the oscillating of them sad

I agree with whoever said switch your phone off. Give yourself some mental space by not contacting him for a short while.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 13:36:10

HBM You need to do what's right for you. You will hear lots of people saying that you should bin your marriage and you may also feel very uncomfortable in your own skin at the moment if your instinct is to "save" when you have always believed you would never give a second chance.

My advice to you would be to see him for some uninterrupted time to talk. You do not have to make any decisions yet at all. You just need to listen and to think.

In the wake of a discovery like this, you are both in far too emotional and shocked a state to draw any conclusions.

I can tell you that your H will want to limit the damage and to obscure some of the more painful truths. In your shoes I would be insisting on absolute honesty from him now, but also bear in mind that he may well have beliefs about him and the affair that are unshakeable, because he is also lying to himself. Only when he is challenged about those beliefs (and that might take time) will some of the truth emerge.

For your own sanity, I would seek to corroborate exactly what he is telling you. He must hand over all his phone bills (and these must go back longer than he's saying this started) and since her H knows about this affair, speak to him to see whether their stories match. Encourage him likewise to do his own digging. He will be a powerful ally in getting to the truth. Ask to see any E mail correspondence between them - and any letters. You are looking for any independent and irrefutable evidence here. It will be painful to read and see, but relying on your H's version of events will always leave a doubt in your mind.

People coping with guilt behave rather like your H did, creating arguments and blaming. They do this to create a justification for an affair to continue and also to assuage the guilt of deceiving a good person. It is no surprise at all therefore that he felt tortured when you were being kind and loving last week. Many people in the throes of an affair will quickly create another argument to provoke less loving behaviour in the betrayed spouse so that they have renewed justification to continue.

Like others have said, you will feel a range of emotions and you will go from hating him to loving him in the space of an hour.

It is possible to get past this and create a new, better marriage, but not without total honesty on both sides and without the betrayer examining their own behaviour and taking total personal responsibility for his choices.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 13:37:22

thanks teaandcakesplease i too feel i owe it to my children to try, but i'm now back to the angry/sad phase.

i will get that book too.

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 13:38:11

he has to get to the bottom of why he was "unhappy"

is he blaming you ?

looking for excuses to justify himself ?

having a twatty "midlife crisis" ?

feeling "confused" ?

if he just puts it down to temporary "unhappiness" but has now miraculously come to his sesnses (because he got caught...) then nothing will resolve

you will not trust him again

he will not feel that you have "moved on", he will start a feel a bit "unhappy and confused" again....

can you see the pattern here...

I think it has just hit me that the OW was drunk and he was stone cold sober

I absolutely do not think that alcohol is any excuse at all, and I am not sure why him being sober makes it worse somehow...but it does

that is fucking nasty...but I can't really articulate why...other than the fact he was very much in the driving seat, knew exactly what he was doing, and took full advantage of her at a vulnerable moment

the other thing that would absolutely make be volcanic with rage...is that people at his work knew all about it

any person who ever makes a fool of me had better be ready to deal with the consequences...OP, I suggest you dig deep for that anger and push the soft, fluffy forgiving thoughts to the back of your mind

at least until you are 110% sure about him, his motives, your own position and clocked how he behaves over the next few weeks

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 13:40:21

Cross-posted. Adults never truly believe that texting another woman is "just nothing" and please don't believe the stuff about him being "not happy". That is just a justification. He was probably perfectly happy, but this was an ego boost. He is contradicting himself which is what always happens. As I've said, get some independent corroboration.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 13:43:49

Afraid that something's telling me that the OW being drunk is a lie.....told to protect her. Which is worrying if he's trying to protect the OW's motivations in all this. No-one's a victim and vulnerable if they've been texting a married man.

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 13:47:54

yes, that too

why would he protect the OW ?

is it because being drunk is the bullshit she told her DH...and the whole "explanation" has been agreed between the two of these cheating liars ?

yuk

OP...I am incandescent on your behalf x

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 13:49:54

The "I was drunk" may well be the defence the OW is using to her H - and your H feels he has to corroborate this story.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 13:52:39

Listen out too for protestations that the OW's H is a monstrous bully, whose accounts should never be believed.....

gonnabehappy Tue 30-Mar-10 13:53:09

WWIFN - totally agree he is trying to protect OW (I almost typed skank there - a word I have adopted from an American site and luuurve!). Time will tell whether he really wants to work on your marriage...and time will tell if you want to as well. Be kind to yourself; cry, grieve, scream, take a long bath, get in an extra bottle of wine for tonight (if your sister is still there for the children!).

The only communication I would have with him for a little while is to ask when he will see the children so you can tell him. Oh and I would also agree with WWI that the OWs husband could be a fantastic ally. Would your sister be able to be around for the children if you were to say arrange to meet husband somewhere for a talk next week/ Relate would be good - they will help whatever the outcome?

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 13:57:04

whenwillifeelnormal and anyfucker- thank you for your posts. you have put somethings in to perspective and my forgiveness feelings have been over shadowed by rage, anger and sadness.

i have asked for numbers and i will be getting some verification. although, they could say anything, so i suppose the more people you ask the better. half of me really wants to go into his work.

apparently the OH text from her phone and called from a witheld number, convenient?!

ive told him to give me her number

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 13:57:39

So is he saying that in effect she dumped him - and only at that point came to his senses and realised it was you he loved? That they had sex and reverted to an emotional affair for 3 months?

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 13:58:32

skank is a good word!

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:00:21

She won't tell you the truth HBM - she's got too much invested in her own lies. Get his bills, speak to the H, speak to the work colleagues if necessary (although they will be feeling horrible about this, no doubt) - get evidence from anyone without a vested interest, or an inanimate but irrefutable source, like phone bills, letters and E mails.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:00:57

WWIFN - yes you are exactly right.

and now he doesn't even have her number, shaking again now.

any of you MNetters up north and want to do some digging! I need a private investigator!

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:02:36

His phone company will have his (shredded) bills though. All the numbers - and much worse - will be on there.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:04:36

i really am shaking now. now he's asking me why i want the number.

WWIFN - i know she wont tell me anything, but i want him to know i could call her if you know what i mean.

why is he still trying to protect her

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:05:52

not so quick at replying to my messages now is he!

bossyboop Tue 30-Mar-10 14:08:22

If it was me I wouldnt want to distance myself until i was sure i knew every last detail. I would need an uninterupted face to face confrontation even if it lasted hours and hours going over everything and more importantly hearing him grovel, seeing his body language the reactions on his face and seeing if he was crying too. I would need this to know if he was genuinely sorry because if i didnt believe that he was i wouldnt see any point in being together. I would need to be with him to talk this through, not sure i could deal with it in isolation, would need to know what he was thinking and how he was feeling too.

I had a bf who always fought for me, fought for forgiveness, fought to win me back, fought for me to love him again. If we had a tiff he left work early to sort it out if i was ignoring his calls and texts. When we were kids and used to break up a lot, if i said i wanted to be left alone he would pester me by text or calls or be at my door, everything he could to get me to talk to him and he would cry and beg and promise the world, pour his heart out to my mum and bombard me with flowers, balloons chocs and allsorts to say sorry.

I married that man, the only man who has ever fought for me, a man that is truly worthy of my time and love, my best friend and my rock.

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 14:11:39

he is shitting himself

hbm..you say you are in the NW

can you where, vaguely ?

KerryMumbles Tue 30-Mar-10 14:12:24

let him stew.

do not communicate with him unless he seeks to speak to the dc. Let him suffer for a while. during that time you can deal with your emotions and try to heal and decide what you want to do.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:13:13

bossyboop - yes i do want some face to face to see his body lang.

all i want is to be fought for. hes not really done that. i want him to be knocking on the door, not going until i listen to him grovel etc etc. your husband sounds wonderful. you are very lucky!

still no reply from him. not a good sign me thinks.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:14:37

anyfucker - I'm in merseyside (any of my sister in laws on here - my DH is a twat!)

teaandcakeplease Tue 30-Mar-10 14:15:22

If he is feeling ambivalent then he will resist being honest. Learnt that the hard way too sad

Give it time, I seriously would turn phone off and have some proper space, write down any questions you have over the coming days and then have a meeting and write down all his answers as you do it IMO.

mrsboogie Tue 30-Mar-10 14:15:30

he's worried you'll find out the rest of it. It sounds as if her husband knows more than you at this stage. Can you get in contact with him? Is their phone number on your husband's bill? you could keep calling her number until she lets you speak to her husband.

Ignore your husband's lies about not having numbers - he is trying to block your path. If what he had said was the truth there would be no reason to prevent you contacting her.

You really need to speak to the husband. Tell your husband that you are not going to stop until you have the whole truth and have spoken to them both.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:16:17

interestingly on all the texts he's put lots of kisses, on the last two saying 'i don't have it' (her number) and 'why' (do i want her number) there are no kisses.

funny that isn't it.

still no reply.

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 14:17:44

ok, hbm

I am in the NW too..but not near Merseyside

norksinmywaistband Tue 30-Mar-10 14:18:26

HBM - I couldn't leave this thread after all, Have been following and have read all.

You will never get all the answers you want/need. You will always doubt from his dripfeeding what he is holding back.

He was sober and knowingly got into another womans bed knowing you and the DC were at home waiting for him to come home.

He only told you in as you were likely to find out from other sources.

He has not truely thought about you and the DC at all over the last 6 months. He has been totally self absorbed.

Keep the anger - let it build

Get yourself checked out at the STD clinic( it is not pleasant,I know from experience, but totally necessary) He has not considered your health either in this time let alone your emotions

Look after yourself and DC.

Give yourself space from him - stop the texting( I know you want answers) but it is just reassuring him that there may be a point where you will forgive him. That may be so, but don't give him the hope atm.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:19:25

mrsboogie i think you are right. he has no paper bills, so cant find numbers. if its the truth, why the stalling.

he's always been very possessive about his phone, now i know why. if he doesn't give me the numbers of the people i will go to his work and make a scene until i know everything.

gonnabehappy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:21:45

Norks - you are brave and right! One thing - I made husband go to STD clinic and produce a clean bill of health. He did not enjoy it much!

What network is he on? I set up an online account for Dhs no. after his 'thing' and can view everything. I think I may have needed the mobile account no. though, which should be on any letter from his provider.

DuelingFanjo Tue 30-Mar-10 14:22:27

Agree with Norks. You also need to insist that he have himself tested. If he really does waht to fight for your relationship then he should do whatever you ask without stalling.

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 14:23:35

< quick squeeze for norks >

these blokes follow a script, don't they ? <sigh>

norksinmywaistband Tue 30-Mar-10 14:23:58

gonnabehappy - I went then told H he needed to get checked as they had found something on my tests - didn't tell him what. He had a worried week or two for nothing wink

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:24:22

norks - thanks for coming back!
you are so right. in everything actually. 20 mins on and still nothing.

i cant add much to that except you are so so so right and i will heed your advice

(i just wish he was like bossyboop's dh)

groundhogs Tue 30-Mar-10 14:25:45

Such great advice from some very brave and wonderful women.. HBM, you will get through this.

I hear the STD tests are really unpleasant for men... [evil grin]

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:25:47

Does he have a contract phone or did he use a second PAYG mobile to contact her? If he used a contract phone, he's probably been shredding his bills. If it's a work phone, his company will have his bills. All you need to do if he has a contract phone is register him for online billing. Then you will have access to the last 2 years of bills in some cases.

His silence is very revealing. He will be shitting himself right now.

bossyboop Tue 30-Mar-10 14:26:15

My DH is wonderful but not perfect hence the fact i like sites like this, I feel lonely, neglected and a bit bored sometimes, and love the company and support you get here. If he did something like this im not sure i would walk away, i think he would fight for me like always and i might can find a way though but if he didnt come across like he was truly sorry then why waste time, energy and emotions on someone who isnt really trying hard to be forgiven.

Lulumaam Tue 30-Mar-10 14:27:43

i'm in merseyside, not one of your SIL's though

just read the thread, anyfucker speaks a lots of sense.

so sorry you are going through this, stay strong

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:28:02

Also HBM, did he leave of his own accord last night or did you ask him to? If he left himself, that also speaks volumes about someone who took flight rather than stay and fight for his marriage.

norksinmywaistband Tue 30-Mar-10 14:29:49

AF, thanks for the squeeze
They definately follow a pattern - took some space last night to read my thread back through from Nov.
So many similarities. H "not happy for months", Sober H, work do, Nothing told for months,others all knowing, lies over lies.

Btw HBM having been through the same, I chose to rid my life of him ( after 16 years together) fingers crossed it will be only another 8 weeks til I am a free, strong and independent woman.

It has taken time, lots of support and self belief but I am getting there grin

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 14:31:26

wwifn...mummy picked him up and took him back to her house

aww, bless hmm

ConnieComplaint Tue 30-Mar-10 14:34:08

If her dh knows, do you think there's any chance they are planning on carrying on the affair? Has she left her dh too?

I feel for you, really I do.

I'd be like you, I'd want to know everything, but, at the moment, he's not sounding like someone who's sorry, just someone who's sorry he had to come clean.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:34:41

news just in...

i told him i knew it wasnt the truth and guess what

it wasnt

not 2 times on one night. different times.

its all over. thats that.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:34:48

Yes, saw that AF, but wondered whether that was as a result of HBM asking him to leave.

GeekOfTheWeek Tue 30-Mar-10 14:36:04

Homebirth, so sad for you. Its time to get angry and I second speaking to the ow husband.

I have read the whole thread and what originally looked like a one night stand now appears to be a full blown affair.

More than a mistake. A contrived, premeditated betrayal of trust on all accounts. I really think that it would still be going on now if the ow hadn't ended it because her husband found out.

Look out for yourself. Get angry.

ConnieComplaint Tue 30-Mar-10 14:36:42

Aw sweetheart.

Still, at least you know now... and can move on in time. You know he's capable of lies..and hurting you so much.

I thought twice in one night when she was drunk was a bit suss hmm

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:36:45

Oh so sorry HBM. Tell us more if you can.

ConnieComplaint Tue 30-Mar-10 14:37:31

I can't believe the skank drank coffee with you at sodtplay & talked to you at Ballet!! The fucker!!

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:37:34

oh yes so angry, so very angry.

cant really type, shaking all over

norksinmywaistband Tue 30-Mar-10 14:39:19

<hugs>
It is horrid to find out more, but if it helps you decide, then it is for the best.

You will come through this, always hold your head high, you did not break your marriage, he did.

He has to carry the guilt, sorrow, and knowledge he won't be around to see his DC growing up day to day.

You will grow stronger by the day believe me

ConnieComplaint Tue 30-Mar-10 14:39:47

HBM - is he at work today?

Does the other woman still work in his office? Do you know anyone there who could give you her number?

TBH I'd be puching her for the truth. Tell her your dh has just told you everything & now you wanted to hear her version. Bitch.

I know you say you don't blame her, but, it takes two - he didn't rape her - twice hmm

GeekOfTheWeek Tue 30-Mar-10 14:40:15

Oh god HB.

You will get through this. And you will be stronger on the other side.

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 14:40:53

so sorry, hbm

that is another snippet he has "allowed" you to know

because he realises if you speak to her/her DH that they will not corroborate his "story"

there will be more...lots, lots more

WillowM2B Tue 30-Mar-10 14:41:48

And the reason he doesnt want you to have her number is that its very likely to have been more than 2 occasions.

I really think you need to take a step back right now for a little while. Turn off the phone, leave the emails, do something "normal". Difficult I know, but not impossible. Clear your head a little.

Also, limit contact with his family for the time being. They will have been acutely aware of his lies to you and what he's been up to, whatever they may tell you.

poshwellies Tue 30-Mar-10 14:41:58

I would be speaking to the other hurt person in all this-her husband.

Thoughts OP.

GeekOfTheWeek Tue 30-Mar-10 14:42:11

Agree AF.

Think its a full blown affair.

The fuckers.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:45:24

The likely truth here is that this was a full-blown affair until yesterday, or this week, when her H found out.

He has now lost all right to belief. He is admitting to only what he thinks you can prove, or can find out easily. If you now want more information, don't ask him or her.

SheWillBeLoved Tue 30-Mar-10 14:45:50

Unbelievable. He goes on about wanting to earn your trust again, when he knows he is still lying to you? Cowardly shit of the highest ranking. I'd be packing his stuff and getting his parents to come and collect it round about now.

Stay strong, keep talking. The ladies on here are amazing

HBM I saw this thread last night but never posted.
I'm so sorry for what you are going through but you sound like a strong woman and there's some great support on here too.

Just last year a friend of mine found out her oh was leading a double life and he had a daughter with him shock
He promised he wanted to be with my friend so they tried to work things out <they have 3 dcs>
Anyhow one morning he went to work hmm then rang my friend saying ow is in labour...sorry angry

She left him and i helped her find a new home and she's so happy now and just recently has started another relationship
Her ex is so unhappy with the other woman but thats his fault.

What i'm trying to say is like others on here you will get stronger and you will be happy one day. Its his loss, you've done nothing wrong

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:47:25

hes just sent me his number but i dont have the strength anymore

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:48:46

Whose number? The husband's?

SheWillBeLoved Tue 30-Mar-10 14:49:01

Just relax for a day or two, give yourself time to absorb everything and figure out what you want to do with the information you now have, and will continue to get when his little damage limitation plan comes crumbling down.

ConnieComplaint Tue 30-Mar-10 14:49:07

Can your sister call him?

Don't lose your strength now pet. The sooner you know the truth the sooner you & your children can start to get your life in order..

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 14:50:39

my sister had to leave this morning.

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 14:51:16

That's the most real thing he has expressed so far, HBM. This is the truth that you're dealing with now. The other texts and the emails were him doing an act for your (his) benefit. They came from his head. The sudden silence and the reticence about her number is his heart speaking.

I would also put the 'give the kids a hug' message in the same category. This is an unsubtle way to remind you that there are children involved here and an attempt to get his foot back in the door just because of them. He has conveniently remembered them now that the sh#t has hit the fan, but they were a long way from his mind (or whatever part of his anatomy it was that he was doing his thinking with) while he and the OW were at that Christmas do. Reminders to you about the children are an attempt at manipulation.

I also think the alleged drunkenness of the OW is not the truth. He is covering up for her, and for himself too, to try to make it seem like something purely spur of the moment and also 'just' sexual. He is so self-deluded that he doesn't see that this makes him look like a complete creep, taking advantage of a drunk woman at the Christmas outing (what a sad cliche). My guess is that you would never have heard him admit anything unless the OW's H hadn't found out.

dizietsma Tue 30-Mar-10 14:53:06

So sorry HBM, he's been a total bastard to you sad

As far as getting to the truth of what happened I would try guessing passwords to email and facebook accounts. Also to online banking and phone bills etc.

Calling OW's OH, as weird and unpleasant as it sounds, will also bear fruit.

You have every right to be incandescently furious and grief stricken all at once.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 14:55:24

Oh love, are you on your own then? Can anyone in RL come round?

bossyboop Tue 30-Mar-10 14:57:13

oh well that would probably be the point where i would say in that case i dont want to see you, 2 different occasions makes it very different or at least it would for me. His loss though, there is light at the end of the tunnel, you will be happy again. If i was certain it was final I would distract myself with practicalities and start with CAB for advice, even just browsing the site.

I think it would have to be something major for me and dh to part but thats not to say i havent made sure I know what would happen if we did. When I looked at child maintenance i was shocked by how much he would have to pay I dont really know how he would afford it if he had his own set of bills to pay, in fact despite me being a sahm and him having a good job i would end up being better off financially than he would be if we split! Keeping busy with the practical stuff would show him i meant business as well as being a distraction from crying and a positive step, looking towards the future. (its good to know where you would stand if you became a single parent as it shows you arent going to be financially dependant on them otherwise they would think they could get away with anything coz u need them)

You have the dc, so no matter what happens you at least have that to smile about and somewher down the line you will meet someone else much better and that is something to look forward to.

Joolyjoolyjoo Tue 30-Mar-10 14:57:15

Just read through this and I am so sad and angry on your behalf, HBM.

Just wanted to say you seem to be doing really well so far- I admire your strength, as I imagine I would not be so capable. Keep on going. Show the bastard how strong you can be. I really hope things get better for you

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 15:02:00

Missed so much while answering the door blush before posting.

xxxxx to you, HBM. This is the hurt that keeps on hurting.

But you need to get yourself std checked -- maybe your midwife could help? Nothing helps you see things in the right perspective like asking for an std test for yourself because you've been sleeping with your husband. sad

I agree with WWIFN -- this was going on right up to the last minute, probably still is. I would call the OW's H. Questions unanswered or half answered will eat you alive, HBM.

livingthehighlife Tue 30-Mar-10 15:02:52

I've just read thru every post in this thread.

I am so so so sorry for what you are going thru. My heart truly goes out to you and your children.

I will never understand how as human beings, we can do such horrible things to one another.
Please don't let this destroy you. You have been given some great advice here, particularly from whenwillifeelnormal and anyfucker.

I will be following this thread to see how things turn out for you.

My sincerest heartfelt thoughts and best wishes to you xx

BoiledEggandToastSoldiers Tue 30-Mar-10 15:06:45

HBM- Do you have anyone who can come round?

Sorry your sister had to leave, would it be feasible to go to stay with anyone?

Very sorry.

Had to post, great advice from the Mumsnet Genii, you are in good hands.

Lots of folks at home, silently wishing you well, sending our love.

ladylush Tue 30-Mar-10 15:11:00

sad angry He told you twice on the one night because he knew there was no way you could forgive him if he continued seeing her. It took several days for my h to tell me the whole truth. I didn't get it from the ow -she lied even more than h. It is so awful when it comes out in dribs and drabs - torture. Do you feel the need to find out everything that happened - even though you don't want him back? If so, maybe you should delay telling him that. Sounds devious - but do what you need to do to find some peace. You are the injured party here.

Karmann Tue 30-Mar-10 15:32:16

I spoke to the husband of my H's OW and he was really supportive, in fact, for a time we helped each other through it. Not suggesting this is right for everyone but it helped me (and him).

I really think you need to stop the texts, it's impossible to hold a full and frank discussion this way. You need to see him face to face (but only when you are ready) and watch his reactions. Text will give him a better opportunity to keep things to himself, if you know him well enough to see when he's lying you can only do that face to face.

Although you have had shock number two today, it is still possible to get through this, and it is likely that there are more to come. You do not have to make any decisions right now.

Keep posting, you are doing really, really well.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 15:36:50

sorry been processing all the info, and crying.

hes sent me a barrage of texts, but ive not replied. i mean 6 years together 2 children and all he can go is text. good fighting isnt it.

i am all over the place at the. kids know something is up, and i cant seem to give them any attention.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 15:40:58

the fact is it was an affair and it only stopped as they got found out.

now he feels a tool as he's lost out all round. i hope it was worth it.

its really hards as i want to go to see my family etc, but i teach in the evenings and i have a class tomorrow which i just dont want to cancel, i hate letting people down. so for now im here, with grumpy children, feeling like shit, but hey ho. i can get through it.

(back to acceptance stage, wont last long...no tears back!)
god damn it

C beebies?

any treats in the house to placate them?

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 15:42:19

Put on some dvds for the LOs, make some popcorn, don't overextend yourself with housework or any other effort, make yourself a cuppa. Turn off the phone.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 15:44:56

for fucks sake, now my father in law is texting me.

please please forgive him, he cant stop crying.....blah blah blah

what a load of shit, if your that sorry at least bang on the front door till i throw water over you. not sit around feeling sorry for yourself.

pricks

wow how symbolic, theres thunder! i love thunder (think i'm becoming delirious)

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 15:46:30

c beebies been on all day!! for lunch my daughter had pizza and m&m's and my son is pulling all the tissues out the box! really am not straining myself!

livingthehighlife Tue 30-Mar-10 15:46:42

Yes it is inevitable that your kids will sense that something is up.

BUT you did not create this.

Maybe some cuddles for mummy might feel good right now? I know i cuddled my little boy to death whenever i split from his dad.

Go easy on yourself right now xxx

ducati Tue 30-Mar-10 15:47:30

I am so moved by your story and the turmoil you are in. I was in the exact same place a year ago tho for different reasons (husband had major breakdown and was total shit for 6 months to me) so I so sympathise with the fury/sorrow/jealousy/misery rollercoaster you are on.

Several things occur to me.

1) friends/family are great for support, but not so great for advice. You have to decide what is right for you, and that can be really hard. People with best intentions saying "I could never have a man back after that" or "It was clearly a mistake, you should forgive him" or whatever are not that helpful. I have found best support is from people who have been thru something terrible themselves and just sympathise with how awful it is

2) things may not be resolved very quickly. even if he comes home etc so prepare for many more months (can't bear to mention years) on the emotional rollercoaster

3) I was so interested in posts about men "fighting" for their women. if my dh had fought for me after all the horrible stuff and basically said "i do not want to lose you over this", it would have made all difference. But some men too proud, some men are not capable of it and some men don't think they should have to make that sort of effort for a woman. you might want to mention to dh that this sort of "I don't want to lose you" fight from him would reassure you -- if that is how you feel.

good luck. life really is shit sometimes....

hes shitting it, thats why he is getting them to test the water.

hiding there until you say he can come home angry

COME ON THUNDER!

livingthehighlife Tue 30-Mar-10 15:48:56

You have the right to tell everyone that this is between you and your H.

You need space and time to yourself right now, not a barrage of texts from everyone.

If you are going to say anthing tho, tell them to tell their son to grow a pair and fight his own bloody battles. If he wants you back so badly then show it.

Rossco Tue 30-Mar-10 15:49:28

I've just read through this and am angry on your behalf!

Turn your phone off, no texts, no nothing for a while to give yourself time to think about what to do next.

GeekOfTheWeek Tue 30-Mar-10 15:50:12

Finding it odd that fil is texting you especially so early on.

I would respond with a polite but firm text asking to be left alone for a while.

PollyTechnique Tue 30-Mar-10 15:54:20

So very sorry for you.

A few days of tv and convenience food is not going to hurt your dcs. Make life as easy as poss for yourself.

If you are able, carrying on with your teaching is going to give you a boost. What you need to do is to cling onto as much routine and normality as you can, even thought there's an emotional meltdown going on.

Would it help to ring the Samaritans just to share and offload - to try and express all that pain?

I wouldn't take anything your dh said at face value for now. He may be merely playing the role of repentant husband.

You need a lot of time to recover and make some calm decisions.

Have seen my own mother get through this. You will too.

DuelingFanjo Tue 30-Mar-10 15:55:28

Honestly

I would send one text back to FIL saying that you do not need his (their) involvement and it is rather too early to be talking about forgiveness.

How dare he text you!

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 16:03:42

Yes, the ILs are covering themselves in glory. Ignore them. This is not their finest moment.

Your H has said all sorts of things to you that he thought you would want to hear. I do think Ducati's #3 suggestion would only encourage him to do more of the same. Whatever comes next from his lips has to come from his heart. He has to be guided by his own moral compass, not hints from HBM. And no help or prompting from his mum and dad either.

Even if things get resolved, nothing will ever be the same again. He will have to deal with the repercussions of his choices for the rest of his life, whether with you or without you. This is the real 'til death' scenario that happens when someone doesn't take their first 'til death' statement seriously. The affair will never go away, no matter how much your H may want it to.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Tue 30-Mar-10 16:05:56

If it's not raining/sleeting how about a quick angry walk with the DCs - it will do them good to run around and it'll do you good to get some air round your poor head. And LEAVE YOUR PHONE AT HOME. Really feel for you. Would save calling the OW's H til after the kids are in bed, maybe keep notes because you want facts to prompt your H with when he tries to cover things up. When can you get someone to have the kids for a few hours so that you and H can meet - Saturday? Or one night this week?

ConnieComplaint Tue 30-Mar-10 16:06:30

HBM - I agree with you, I'd want him to be fighting tooth & nail to prove to you how sorry he is, how much he regrets it etc...not relying on his parents to bring you round

Turn the phone off & go spend some time with your little ones,. What age are they? Are they at the age where they will be wondering where daddy is?

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 16:11:06

i have to say i would not have got through the day if it wasn't for all you amazing ladies. you are all so kind, just having people 'allow' me to feel everything i do is much needed. and it has been so helpful when you bring me back to earth. i know in my head all the things, but the heart often takes over, so its good for you all to remind my head to come back!

mathanxiety- you are so right. he has not volunteered anything, just told me what he thinks i need to hear. and anytime i pushed he revealed a little bit more. not real honesty.

and, if he did want me back as much as his parents think, surely he should be the one fighting and not bloody them.
i wonder who else in his family is going to try to contact me! sadly for me he's got a big family, phone off and being ignored!

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 16:13:11

You're the amazing one, HBM.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 16:13:59

dd is nearly 4 and ds is 1. dh (oh the irony!) works long shifts so they are used to days without him.

hail at the mo, id love to go out in it, but dd wont!

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 16:15:46

So two DCs, both young. Maybe life just got too serious and grown-up for the H?

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 16:15:59

math - thanks! just what i needed.

my family are trying to call, my sister has sent cryptic messages to them, but i just cant bare to talk to them

countingto10 Tue 30-Mar-10 16:18:56

I'm afraid your H (in the words of our therapist) can't talk himself out of something he has behaved himself into. You need actions now (even small ones) and hiding behind his mum's skirts isn't one of them !!!!!

Give yourself time, do not respond to him anymore today. Give yourself some breathing space. I did pack my DH things (in bin bags) when I found out but he had been living with OW for 6 weeks w/o my knowledge and then I didn't want to speak/see him for a while.

Don't do anything drastic now, at the time my H believed everything that came out of his mouth - I recently found a letter from his solicitor to him from that time telling H that he could divorce me for MY unreasonable behaviour. I actually asked him what my unreasonable behaviour was and he says "for the life of me I don't know but I must have said something !!!" hmm. In fact reading that letter made me realise that H really had convinced himself that his lies were the truth.

Don't go into his work either when you are feeling as you do, dignity at all times in these things. By all means ask who knows about the affair, I know one of my 1st questions was just that, who knows and who has seen you together. I just felt so humiliated.

And mircowave popcorn was also one of my staples at that time too.

And if you need to talk to someone, the samaritans are wonderful in the small hours.

weblette Tue 30-Mar-10 16:19:10

HBM, nothing really to add to the advice the lovely ladies have given so far.

Maybe ask your sister to be the 'gatekeeper' as far as your family is concerned until you feel able to talk.

You are bloody strong, look after yourself your babies x

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 16:19:33

math- i think you are exactly right. hit the nail on the head 100% he was 25 when we had dd, and i was only 22. got married 2 years later and then had 2nd baby. although, i know we were young, but so in love and it was all just perfect until last year.

cant really think there was anything i did, or about our relationship that was not going well. i think he just couldnt cope with the pressure and responsibility.

IndiMamaJones Tue 30-Mar-10 16:21:53

Just read this thread and think you are fantastic homebirthmummy - you sound so strong and to still have you sense of humour through all this is amazing.

BelleDameSansMerci Tue 30-Mar-10 16:23:39

HBM - trying to send you cyber hugs/strength/best wishes etc.

Please, please don't start looking for things you did. He did this. Not you. Anything that happened between you did not cause his behaviour.

Please be kind to yourself and wrap yourself in cotton wool. You probably need a bit of space and some peace. I'm sure you feel as if you are in a weird bubble and a bit distanced from reality right now.

I know this will sound hollow but whichever path you choose to take, things will get better for you. You and your DC will be ok. You really will. xxx

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 16:24:10

hbm...it was nothing you did

and there was nothing wrong with your relationship

aww diddums...too much pressure for lover-boy, eh ?

never mind, mummy will look after him < tosser >

ConnieComplaint Tue 30-Mar-10 16:29:58

Do you have any RL friends who can come round & keep an eye on the kids? Give you time for a nice hot soak or something else to make you feel a bit more, 'normal'?

I know if I was in the same situation, I have a large family, but doubtful if I'd want them to see me so vulnerable....

Has he given you any indication about whether or not the other couple are working it out? Though it should make no difference to what you decide to do, it would be interesting what she's told him & if it will have any bearing on whether or not they'll work things out.

Are they a young couple too HBM?

FabIsGettingThere Tue 30-Mar-10 16:32:33

Sounds like classic throwing his toys out of the pram because your soul focus was no longer on him but on the children. I would kick him out and refuse to talk for a long time. It is all about his feelings and trying to say what it takes for you to take him back. angry

norksinmywaistband Tue 30-Mar-10 16:35:38

Tonight, I would get the DC up and into bed earlyish then run yourself a hot bath, take your time and let it all out.

I will be on here all evening, so if you need to talk later I will be here.

But I would advise giving a close mate a ring and sitting together, maybe with a bottle of wine. It won't change anything but it helps.

This is going to be a long hard slog, however things turn out and you need your friends around you.
The ones that support you now( like your sister did) will be the ones you know you can trust to always be there.

I fond the hard thing was that most of my friends were his friends too - and because I didn't want him to know what I was thinking I held back from talking to them.

I wish I had now, they are good friends.

Do you have anyone you can call on?

Lulumaam Tue 30-Mar-10 16:35:49

you sound like you are doing better!

which bit of merseyside you in? there is usually a liverpool meet up this time of year..

ElephantsAndMiasmas Tue 30-Mar-10 16:36:21

Oh my gay gordons, you're only a year older than me. God I wish I lived near you so I could take you out for a large whisky coffee, or look after your kids while you went to meet up with your manchild husband. If you're short of local support someone could start a separate thread looking for Merseyside MNers you could maybe meet with. Or I think there is an MN local section <ignoramus emoticon>. What do you think?

I think you are amazing too, you are being incredibly strong and lucid, please carry on putting the blame where it belongs - with him

norksinmywaistband Tue 30-Mar-10 16:38:18

Also I would go round the house and pack him a bag for at least a week. Then if he texts again to say he needs to come and get some stuff. You can tell him it is packed and to collect but not stop.
If he wanted to talk properly he would have instigated that by now, but may turn up for his stuff and then begin talking.

It has to be on your terms now, not just a passing thought when stood on the doorstep

Stay strong - we are here for you

FabIsGettingThere Tue 30-Mar-10 16:44:11

I think it would help if you could text your inlaws and tell ask them to stop texting you. It isn't their battle to fight or their business.

Xales Tue 30-Mar-10 16:53:27

So sorry for what is happening /-:

I feel like a harbringer of doom everytime I type a message.

Nothing you think or feel for the next few weeks/months is wrong. You are entitled to them all.

I would still recommend you take a long while before you make any decisions.

Do not let him back in until you are sure YOU want him back and that he honestly is sorry and doing everything to show you and to prove to you that it is you he wants. Not just you he wants because she and her husband are trying again and he has nothing better.

You have no idea what is going on with her and her husband right now. If they seperate you could have her chasing your husband again.

Stay strong.

tartyhighheels Tue 30-Mar-10 16:59:46

I have read through the thread and I just wanted to lend my support to you - everyone here has given great advice so i have nothing to add but just to let you know i have read all this and i am very sad for you and the dcs - what a fucking bastard loser who just does not deserve you at all.

Keep strong sweetheart - we will all be keeping an eye on you.

WhenwillIfeelnormal Tue 30-Mar-10 17:18:19

HBM I'm going to be big sister stern with you - (look into my eyes emoticon) you did NOTHING to deserve this. It is one of the biggest affair myths that there must have been "problems in the marriage" for an affair to happen. There was certainly a problem, but with your husband, not you - and not the marriage.

Trust your instincts above everything. You know what your marriage was like. One of these days when you really find out when all this started, do a timeline. I would bet you my life savings that he only started feeling "unhappy" when OW loomed into view.

In fairness to his parents, they are hurting too. They are misguided and flawed for doing his bidding for him - and for even giving him safe harbour. They might only be doing that to stop him running off with OW, so don't be too hard on them. They feel pain too.

He should however be beating a path round to your door to explain. Please don't engage in a remote exchange with him, via text or E mail. It is such a terrible way to communicate about something so important. This needs to be face to face, but what today has proved beyond measure is that he will lie and lie again, to save his skin. Listen to him - ask him to turn over all sources of evidence - and go away and work it out for yourself.

Don't go anywhere near Relate yet. It will be worthless while lies are still being told.

BigBadMummy Tue 30-Mar-10 17:25:11

Far wiser women have commented on here before me but I just wanted to say I read your OP last night and felt for you.

Your husband is a coward. To not be able to stand in front of you and explain fully exactly what has happened / where / when / who knows / and beg for your forgiveness would be the deal breaker for me.

As somebody else has said "hiding behind mummy's skirts" is pathetic.

You are an amazingly strong woman and you should be proud of what you have acheived in 24 hours.

You need to stay strong, and at times that will not be easy, but know that all these wise ladies are behind you.

And this needs to be on your terms now.

morejuiceplease Tue 30-Mar-10 18:21:06

Have just read entire thread and I just wanted to tell you how amazing I think you are op, you sound so strong and you're handling this so well, and you've had some really good advice from other posters.

You'll get through this and come out the other side happier and stronger.

This is what I love about mn, the massive support network and good, sensible advice from people who've been there.

Gems55 Tue 30-Mar-10 18:36:13

Hi Homebirthmummy

I have just read the whole thread and
I just wanted to add my support to you and your situation. You are coping so well in such a horrible and nasty situation.

PLease don't feel guilty that you are not able to give your kids all of the attention they normally get - its not everyday that you are left to deal with a shit of a husband.

Keep strong and don't let his lies and vile behaviour upset you too much - I know this is easier said than done!

Test his parents and ask them to give you some space to think about things. THe last thing you need is them interferring in what is already a really tricky situation.

Much love xxxxxxxx

CowWatcher Tue 30-Mar-10 18:42:24

Much the same as everyone else. I feel for you & wish you all the best for the coming days and weeks. Best & hugs

BitOfFun Tue 30-Mar-10 18:52:20

I would tell his parents that you need some time to process that he has been having an affair for months now, and starting arguments at home to try and blame you for it. And then I would look for a solicitor.

I am near you, I think, if you ever want to do the Contact-a-Poster thing smile

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:03:05

thanks everyone for all the messages.

i took your advice and went out in the torrential rain and it was wonderful. it felt so fresh and the weather kinda mimicked how i was feeling if that makes sense.

he said he wants to come over. i don't know how i feel about that. i do want to see him for
some face to face communication and to get to the bottom of things. but i just dont want to see him. i am so tired and drained.

what should i do lovely ladies?

kids in bed too and sister almost back x

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 19:03:18

Do always remember, from here on things are ON YOUR TERMS. I completely agree, keep your distance from Relate for however long it takes for you to be sure there are no more lies being told, if you think you need to go in that direction at all. Don't let anyone pressure you into going to any sort of relationship counseling before you're good and ready and feel in your gut that it would benefit YOU. Don't let anyone guilt you into any decision. The calendar means nothing right now -- don't let anyone hurry you up or try to impose a deadline on you. You owe nothing to your H or to his parents or family, no answers, no guarantees, no decisions.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:05:06

thanks for the advice on relate. i thought it would be best to go as soon as, so you could work out whats been going on. does it not work like that?

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 19:05:08

Need to add, if you do go to couples counseling at some stage, make sure you are the one who does the intake interview or the initial appointment set-up. You need to get your speak in first at these things. You need to make the first impression.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:06:34

thanks bitoffun, it would be nice to know some people in Liverpool x

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:07:56

math - what does that mean? i kinda thought, you created the problem, you make the appointment. no?

Gems55 Tue 30-Mar-10 19:15:57

I totally understand that you want to see him, but you need to make sure that you are feeling strong enough to face him first. If he has lied to you so easily for so long then I would worry that he will have no problem lying to you again in order to get back into the house and relationship with you.

I just want you to make sure that you meet him on your terms and that he understands.

I am so sorry I live so far away from you but it will be ok eventually. You sound like a very strong, sensible and lovely lady.

Take care

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 19:17:16

No, I would say, get your version of events on the table first (if at all -- don't go if you don't think it would benefit you). Foolishly I allowed exH to do this, and during our first session it emerged from the counselor's questions to me that Ex had fed the intake interview lady a story about our relationship and why we were in counseling that was completely new and unfamiliar to me. Needless to say, counseling didn't go well.

BitOfFun Tue 30-Mar-10 19:19:03

Oh, I forgot to say that I have had a homebirth too, and I never run out of wine wink

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:20:10

thanks gems55. its a hard call. i actually feel really faint at the mo, stress maybe? but i kinda think that maybe i need to see him to begin to process as today was a nightmare as i was trying to get all the facts and figure fact from fiction.

he did say that he didnt care if i didnt want to see him. he wants to come to prive he would do anthing and that we are the most important people in his lives. i guess i want to hear him out, and no matter what im feeling inwardly, outwardly i know i can look strong.

my worry is that, if, in time, we work things out, that i will always hold it against him.

Gems55 Tue 30-Mar-10 19:23:57

Def stress lovely.

I think if you want to see him then that is totally up to you. It may actually be good to get some things off your chest? Also if you talk to him face to face you will be able to tell if he is lying or not!

Did you ever manage to talk to the H of the OW?

giraffesCANdriveAcar Tue 30-Mar-10 19:24:11

Just read whole thread and I know it sounds silly but wish I could give you a hug, make you a cuppa and take the kids off your hands for a few hours. Oh what a bastard. Am so sorry. angry have lots of cbeebies and dvds and give yourself some time.

glad youve got mumsnet now for some support.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:24:55

math- thats interesting to know. i will make sure i speak first.

bitoffun - ok i defo need to meet you then!! are you in Liverpool? and what wine do you drink!! the important questions!

FabIsGettingThere Tue 30-Mar-10 19:28:36

He doesn't care if you don't want to see him..

He wants to prove to you..

Still all about him isn't it?

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 19:29:11

It's posturing.

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 19:31:11

In your situation, I would not meet with him

You sound vulnerable to me...to the pretty words he will feed to you

I know posters are saying you sound strong...and of course you are doing the best you can in shitty circumstances

and...you must do what you feel comfortable with

but, hand on heart, if you were my RL friend I would tell you to keep your distance until much more time had passed and you were much clearer about your feelings

you will be all over the place at the moment...and I think you are in grave danger of caving and accepting his comfort

you will regret that very, very much if you were to do that so soon...with so little reparation from him

I don't mean for you to play games...but you are under waaaaay too much pressure here

he will want you to accept his version of events and sweep all this "unpleasantness" under the carpet so you can all "get back to normal"

no

that is now how it should be

< just my opinion...one of several different versions of the right thing to do, I am sure >

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 19:31:44

not how it should be...

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:34:31

giraffes - i too am so glad i have mn! and a hug is never silly! i had a beautiful hug with my dc earlier and it really helped.

i have not called the OWH yet, i have contacts for all the people that knew too. anyone want to pretend to be me and call.

just to add, i have been very strong and called the shots re seeing him. i told him he can wait in the car outside until my sister arrives then we can go for a walk and chat. and i said I dont want to see his parents (apparently his mum in car too -WTF?!! baby boy). i said i need the house to be my space for now.

(baby steps i know, but i feel in control!)

Gems55 Tue 30-Mar-10 19:38:32

Are you meeting him tonight then?

Does he not drive himself????? Why does he need his mother to take him!!!

FabIsGettingThere Tue 30-Mar-10 19:40:17

Why do you want to see him?

BitOfFun Tue 30-Mar-10 19:41:03

I will send you a message through the system- they can take a few hours to arrive, but sometimes it's faster- then you'll have my email address. I forgot to say too that I can recommend an excellent solicitor locally that specialises in family law too x

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:41:56

Fab - yes it is about him. part of that i think is his really immature way of communicating, another part is that he is a man, and finally that i know he only is not with her cos they got found out.

AF - i appreciate your comments and honesty. I think i need to see him, just to have some facts as i really don't think i can come to terms or make decisions until that is done. believe me, there will be sweeping under the carpet and (without sounding like a psycho) i kinda what him to pay for a good while.

BitOfFun Tue 30-Mar-10 19:42:48

Ah, I see that you're not set up to recieve messages. But if you click on the contact poster link on my posts, then I can reply to you. Dry white is my preference wink

FabIsGettingThere Tue 30-Mar-10 19:43:32

What, and all men only think of themselves?

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 19:46:06

ok, hbm x

btw...had he already set off in the car with mummy in tow before "asking" to see you ?

if that is so...he is still calling the shots

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:47:57

thanks bitoffun, i will look out for it!

no idea why he didn't drive, maybe too stressed? i know i wasn't at my peak driving earlier.

he was doing a masters as i was trying to do a degree. he has just told me that he has quit his masters as it was selfish of him as i should have had the time to do mine. i think he has realised a few things. the grass isnt always greener, that he is childish and selfish. i feel so much stronger as i know he is feeling all weak and pathetic (insert evil laugh!)

p.s im not really a psycho!

FabIsGettingThere Tue 30-Mar-10 19:49:45

I really don't get he is feeling weak and pathetic.

What time are you meeting him?

Gems55 Tue 30-Mar-10 19:53:20

PLease be cautious. Dont let him straight back in after everything he has done to you.

x

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 19:53:39

Well done HBM, about setting your conditions. It's a very good idea to claim the house as your space, terrific instinct there. And doing the chat while you walk is a really sound idea. At home, on the couch, in the familiar shared space would not be the place to do this. I think you will learn a lot from observing his demeanour. If anything strikes you in any way, pay attention to it.

I am also hmm about mummy doing the driving; no doubt there will also be a lot of chatting between them, and presumably the talk you have will be raked over by his parents and him afterwards. I would ask your H to tell his parents he will be keeping it all private and between the two of you -- ask him if he can tell you why he thinks you are asking for this from him. (Hint: if he can do this it is out of needing to honour your relationship, honour you by agreeing to your request, and prove he is willing to do something you ask of him. It is not because you dislike his parents or think they're nosey. And you are not making a request that is unreasonable or implying that you can't trust him.) If you think he hesitates or does some hemming and hawing, or if you think he will say ok and then spill the beans when he's back in mummy's car, that's bad news.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 19:54:32

fab - not all men, just him!!
i think he is feeling weak, but i will let you know anyway!

AF- dont say that! i was feeling all empowered!

i've told him to wait in the park (opposite my house) until i'm ready. (and when my sis arrives to baby sit)

told him he cant come here as i need the house to be my space at the mo.

FabIsGettingThere Tue 30-Mar-10 19:58:02

Why are you seeing him?

StarExpat Tue 30-Mar-10 19:58:17

I've just read this because was in active convos and your op was so moving. I am so sorry you are going through this Other posters have such great advice, glad you are taking it all in

YOu just said he told you he quit his masters.... when was that? You had thought he was going out to his classes recently. Was he seeing ow instead?
I second talking to ow's H.
And your h sounds like a childish idiot.
He is going to be manipulative when you see him. He knows you well and he will know how to get to you, what to say...etc. Stay strong.

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 20:00:18

gem - don't worry, i will absolutely not let him back just like that. no way at all. too much trust has gone to pretend its ok.

math - thanks so much for the advice. really good idea. i think i will quiz him about the parents in car thing. according to my SIL (who is one of my absolute best friends and trust with my life) my IL's are totally furious and told my SIL that they are worried that by him staying with them i will think they are on his side, when they're on mine. I know its not about side, well, actually it is isn't it?

guess i should get, i know im in liverpool but I do not feel comfortable going out in my pj's!

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 20:02:34

i feel i need to see him, as remember since he told me ive not actually spoken to him. just for my sanity i think.

thanks star - he quit it today. not sure why, but i will ask everything i want to know and thats that

norksinmywaistband Tue 30-Mar-10 20:02:44

Please be aware HBM, He is now a hardened liar, and you did not see through them before.
Whatever he says tonight, please remember he has had all day to practice his responses to any questions you may ask and you still may not get the truth.
I am glad you have claimed the house as a place for you and your DC for the moment.
When he comes for his chat I would also hand him a bag and request he leaves you alone for a while to consider his actions and your plan for the future.

He needs to show he is sorry but respecting you and your wishes any sign he is not doing this and it is still his game sad

homebirthmummy Tue 30-Mar-10 20:05:54

good advice as usual nork.

ok ladies i will go and meet him and feedback later if you are around.

bitoffun - no idea how to contact you! just paid £5 though!

norksinmywaistband Tue 30-Mar-10 20:06:40

HBM, be cautious of your IL's
I still have a close relationship with my SIL, and my PIL were very supportive of me when we first split and were "on my side" in the same way you have mentioned.
However they soon showed their true colours when I petitioned for divorce- have not spoken to me since sadangry

StarExpat Tue 30-Mar-10 20:07:18

Pack him up a bag so he can't claim to need to come in and get stuff!

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 20:07:36

hbm...go to the post of a MN'er you want to email

on the right of the blue line above the words is "contact poster"

it can take w while to get through though

Xales Tue 30-Mar-10 20:07:36

Pack him a bag of bits he will need for a week away and give it to him. It is not final but it gives you space.

Don't agree to anything. Make non-commital noises or say you will think about it.

Don't let him draw you into an argument on it's your fault because............

Leave him whenever you want, just walk away if you need.

Good luck! (hugs)

Karmann Tue 30-Mar-10 20:13:41

I think you're ready to listen to him now but that you are also very strong and won't listen to crap. Having this day to yourself with the support you have had here has given you strength - the strength you will need to get you through.

And I must say this, you have maintained an amazing sense of humour throughout an extremely difficult day - must be the scouse in you! Good luck and stay strong.

serendipitous Tue 30-Mar-10 20:16:32

Take care, take it slow and stay strong.

AnyFucker Tue 30-Mar-10 20:16:32

lol @ "scouse in you"

very true

PlumBumMum Tue 30-Mar-10 20:24:12

good luck

mathanxiety Tue 30-Mar-10 20:27:37

Possibly too late and you may already be gone out, but you don't have to agree to anything he suggests right there on the spot. Just say, 'I'll think about that and get back to you when I can'. Don't let him put any pressure on you to decide anything tonight and don't agree to any timetable.

DuelingFanjo Tue 30-Mar-10 20:33:12

Absolutely agree with the others RE packing him a bag. Good luck.

Bicnod Tue 30-Mar-10 20:36:13

Just read this thread. I'm so sorry you are going through this Rooting for you for tonight's meeting x

geordieminx Tue 30-Mar-10 20:51:46

HB - I am often down near Aintree/Maghull visiting friends, would be lovely to meet up for vodka coffee sometime!

Tanga Tue 30-Mar-10 21:07:21

Dear HBM - saw your post fairly early on and it brought back a lot of memories for me so have been trying to think what (if anything) would have made me feel better in those early days. I thought now you're out I would take some time to put some words of encouragement together for when you get back, as I'm sure you will be even more confused, tired and emotional.

Being a train wreck for a while is OK. Give yourself tiny goals to achieve - eating some cereal, or making a list. Imagine yourself as someone recovering from a serious disease - be very, very gentle with yourself and avoid stress.

This is how I felt - that the person I thought I was married to(for 10 years) had been murdered. By a completely different person who was now walking around in my beloved husband's body. Wanting to talk to the 'murderer' was like the denial you feel when someone close has died - you just don't want it to be true. You want to make sure that there isn't a glimpse, a glimmer of that lost love. And sometimes if he said the right things (after all, he sounded just like my beloved husband so long as I didn't ask any difficult questions or look at his mobile or open my bloody eyes) I could convince myself that it was all OK! I had woken up and the murder was just a dream!

(Just want to take a moment here to apologise to anyone who might feel offended by the talk of death/murder in this context, i know now it was only shagging but it was how I felt at the time)

Slowly, I realised that the only thing that hed 'died' was my imaginary husband - that actually the real one was always a bit of a sad twat and finding out was the best thing that ever happened.

I hope meeting up with him has helped. My instinct says it won't have. If it hasn't, please take a break from him and his family. Treat yourself to some time when the agenda has you as the first item, not him, or how he feels, or why he did it, or who knows ('cos that little kicker is a real grower)or what he wants or what he should do or what his latest text says or if he's telling the whole truth this time...just you, and how you feel.

Hawklore Tue 30-Mar-10 21:31:23

I have nothing to add to the excellent advice you've had from many of the wise people on here but just wanted to add my voice to those wishing you well and sending support HBM. Be kind to yourself.

Jajas Tue 30-Mar-10 21:56:16

Posted last night and just caught up with your day shock! So hope that you can get through this awful situation and thinking of you xx

fortyplus Tue 30-Mar-10 21:58:35

homebirthmummy hope to hear from you later.

Glad too that ILs seem to be on your side not his - I guess they will want to keep an eye on the naughty little boy though!

Hopefully reassuring for you that he's with them and not getting up to more mischief - your MIL is probably desperste to chat with you as sno doubt he will be fearing a loss of contact with the grandchildren if you split up.

You're doing so brilliantly - it's time for you to be utterly selfish (in a good way) and not consider the feelings of others.

ike1 Tue 30-Mar-10 22:17:29

Tanga so empathise with your description - especially the bit about the lovely hubby really having been a bit of a 'sad twat' all along. The thing you have to reconcile eventually is what is there left to love NOW. Someone who is a cowardly cheat? Not the man you thought you loved.

Good luck love, practicalities first and emotional TLC, perhaps some counselling to follow.

Mermaidspam Tue 30-Mar-10 23:31:25

Just read the thread and don't have any valuable advice but wanted to offer some more support.

Hope everything went okay tonight. Be strong.

norksinmywaistband Wed 31-Mar-10 07:24:43

hoping you are ok this morning hbm, and that you achieved what you wanted from last nights meeting with H.
I am hoping that the reason you didn't come back here last night is because you had some RL support from your sis, and managed to get some sleep.

ladylush Wed 31-Mar-10 11:48:27

How did it go hbm?

Annieoz Wed 31-Mar-10 12:30:36

I so hope we hear from you soon to let us know you are ok after last night. {{BIG HUG}}

I too am going through some of what you are and can only reiterate what has already been said. Stay strong, don’t make any hasty decisions (I did by taking my DH back – I loved him so desperately thought I could deal with all the deception and cheating that he’d done with his mistress of 13 months; he walked out on me again 7 weeks after I’d accepted him back because he was still so besotted with her, even though she’d finished with him and told him categorically she’d never leave her partner . . . what a terrible waste of both of our lives, and our daughter).

Time DOES heal – my DH confessed to me middle of last October and then I found the damning evidence of an email from him to her declaring undying love, never be able to move on from her (he already has!!), his very reason for living was her – sickening. I am still in a bad place, but my friends and family tell me my ‘wobbles’ are getting much fewer and longer apart! I DO feel stronger – but yes, there are days when I really don’t want to face the brutal reality of my sad, out of control, lonely life. And I feel so much pain still that he is ALLOWED to get away with it.

Keep your humour – that’s really what helps to see me through.

Take care, thinking of you loads
Annie xx

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 13:26:15

Hi everyone.

Sorry for the silence. Just been busy thinking and (my sister has been looking after the kids) so trying to relax too.

The meeting was ok last night. It was good to see him as I could read what he was saying. He isn't a very good liar (and I know he lied to me for 4 months, but in that time we never had any alone time to chat, so i guess he could lie without me seeing it, if that makes sense)

He was an absolute wreck, which, in a way, made me feel better as I was so strong and composed. I did, as one of you lovely ladies suggested, listened to what he had to say. Asked what I wanted and made non committal noises etc. Despite it all I felt very powerful as I know the power now.

He did lie to me when I met him. It was only trivial things, but I could see through them and when I told him to stop lying, he did come clean. I think, again as someone said, he made himself believe what he was trying to convince me of.

He admitted that it only stopped as her husband found out, which I don't think was an accidental finding out as OW asked him to leave me as she was going to leave him. He said he couldn't and 2 days later the OW's H 'accidentally' found incriminating messages.

The thing about my DH is that he is very weak and can easily be manipulated, and I'm not blaming her solely as I know that things work both ways, but part of me thinks she was been very manipulative etc. I mean to sit with me during ballet, ask me to take DC to soft play area with her etc etc. I thought us women were meant to stick together?

Anyway, he didn't once try to blame me, or say it was my fault. He freely admitted that the reason it started (as we all predicted) was after DC2 he had no attention and couldn't cope - oh boo hoo, right!

He started just innocently talking to her (even though as he admitted our relationship was good at the time), as she was a friend to begin with, and she was unhappy too, and I guess it was a nice feeling, having attention, the thrill etc etc. I am not condoning what he did, just trying to put it all together and make sense of it all.

He admitted that he had caused arguments with me in the last 4 months, as he felt shit and it made him feel better to try to blame me.

Annie, I so know how you feel as deep down I do feel the same. I love him so much (you just cant turn love off can you) and he is a good boy man. I think he had a total freak out about responsibility, life, children, work etc. But I mean that is no excuse is it.

My worry, like with your story Annie, is that if I do take him back, what happens if things don't work out between OW and her H. Will he go off with her? He says no, but how can I ever believe that. She sounds so wicked doesn't she. I know I only have DH's word, but he tells me she was wanted to leave her husband, now, I guess as she has no-one, she has gone back to him. And us suckers fall for their, I loves you's and sorry's and we forgive.

So they get to do what they want, knowing they can turn the charm on and all will be ok.

Not really sure how I'm feeling, very confused and lonely I guess xx

blinks Wed 31-Mar-10 13:36:00

i'd take that version of events with a pinch of salt.

it's unlikely he was manipulated by her but fancied her and thought he might get away with it.

he'll pin in on her as much as he can so be wary. they are both equally to blame.

well done for keeping your composure but don't worry too much about being in control. you don't lose points by getting angry and/or emotional. he needs to see that.

blinks Wed 31-Mar-10 13:36:29

in = it

norksinmywaistband Wed 31-Mar-10 13:39:13

Glad you have come back hbm. Sounds like you had an emotionally exhausting time last night.
I know you feel the strength puling you through, but the emotions normally arrive full pelt when they are out of sight.

Your story sounds more like mine by the post..

My ex also said he was manipulated by her hmm But what I wanted to say that My ex encouraged a relationship between me and the OW. I believe to find out what I was thinking about our relationship, and so I would not find them talking suspicious. - Just be aware the "friendship"
may have been engineered by your H not by her.

Your post talks about feeling stronger and being in the driving seat. You are doing so well smile

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 13:40:53

blinks - you are right, why do i still want to believe him and trust what he is saying?

I do think he loves me though.

God damn life is so hard isn't it.

"He admitted that it only stopped as her husband found out"



{{hugs}}

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 13:44:23

norks - that is an excellent point. i asked why he put he could let me sit with her etc, he just said he didn't know. and you know what, i did talk about our relationship to her, the bitch. whilst she was texting someone, 10 points if anyone can guess who. i don't know that for a fact, but it doesn't take a genius to work that out.

norksinmywaistband Wed 31-Mar-10 13:44:35

You want to believe him, because It is hard for all your illusions about your relationship to be shattered in one fell swoop.

Ex still tells me he loves me - but for me the love started to die when the trust did. I will never 100% believe anything he says and without trust and belief for me there is no relationship.
I don't love him now, but if you asked me 6 months ago, I would say I would love him until my dying day.
It just diminished.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 13:45:42

i know lemonade so much of it i can come to terms with, so much i can't.

StarExpat Wed 31-Mar-10 13:46:42

what did you say to her about your relationship with your h?

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 13:52:52

i know norks, i guess if i can believe him, i can pretend its ok. the stupid thing is i do kinda trust him in some respects. not when it comes to her at all, but i trust he wouldn't go off and have a one night stand.

i am so mixed up at the mo! think i need to change my teaching plan for tonight as i don't think i can talk about relationships!

Was it only the twice? (Sorry if I have missed some details) I totally understand where you are at, my DH did something (albiet 'milder') and the lies more than anything tore me apart. I want to scream leave him, but I know it's not always black and white. Would he have stopped? Was it pre-planned sex, or spur of the moment? What lies were told in order for him to do all this? DH made me out to be unreasonable, told me lie after lie as to why all his texts were missing from his phone - it all ran far deeper than just the 'affair', that was only a part of it. My heart just aches for you

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 13:55:06

i said i thought it was good and he said it was (before it started). he said he felt pushed aside when dc2 was born. not sure if thats blaming, or admitting his feelings?

he also said he knew he had been horrible to me for the past few months.

he has said, over and over and over again, how all he wants is me and to make things right and he'll do anything......

StarExpat Wed 31-Mar-10 13:59:28

what do you teach, hbm <nosey>

He's using "feeling pushed aside" to justify himself.

He realizes he can't have her now and he's messed up and he had a nice life before. Now he's desperately trying to save himself. "oh i'm a horrible, horrible person for doing this to you, I'll do anything, just give me a second chance after cheating on you for 4 months with a sexual and emotional affair that I now realize I can't have..." angry

He thinks you will fall for his sad, pathetic self loathing self and feel sorry for him enough to take him back.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:00:52

lemonade yes it was twice. after 2 work do's.
they saw each other (for kids things) but as far as i know, that was the end of the physical side.

the actual sex thing i can cope with more, i think. i mean, we've all had sex with other people in the past and it is just a physical action, its the emotional side i am struggling with.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:02:30

star - i know you are right. i said the exact same thing to him last night.

but what do i do?

(i'm an antenatal teacher too)

WhenwillIfeelnormal Wed 31-Mar-10 14:02:35

HBM Thanks for updating and glad you saw him face-to-face. They are both to blame - and OW has been no more manipulative than him from what you say. They are both equally responsible for arranging meetings when you would be there, and this is a horrible twist in your tale. You asked him about how he could have gone along with this - and you got a "I don't know". I'm afraid I think this pair got some extra thrills from that - and that would make me incandescent with rage.

Well done for being non-committal. You've given him a chance to tell all - now go and verify it all. Do NOT accept that he is now telling you the truth. He will still be in damage limitation mode, evidenced by his assertion that the OW set the whole discovery up after it was clear he wasn't going to leave you. That may or may not be true, but it casts him in a better light, doesn't it?

Like I said upthread, it's impossible to move on properly until one is sure that all the truth is out there. The other thing I want to say to you is that 4 months (at least) is long enough to develop a liar habit. That has become so ingrained, it is almost impossible for someone to shake it off within 2 days.

For your own peace of mind, get digging and verifying.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:09:57

ok just to update on the cunt of an ex husband.

turns out he has kissed her with the children around.

am i being irrational in my last text to him which says i will be finding legal representation?

WhenwillIfeelnormal Wed 31-Mar-10 14:12:24

How did that info come out? Have you sent the text?

norksinmywaistband Wed 31-Mar-10 14:12:51

OMG what a Cunt shockangry

I think It would be a decider for me as well - File as soon as possible. Your poor DC the eldest must have been so confusedsad

StarExpat Wed 31-Mar-10 14:14:25

ew. Did the kids tell you that? not irrational at all. I guess that wasn't the end of the "physical" side. he's a loser.

ladylush Wed 31-Mar-10 14:14:51

I agree with WWIFN. I thought I knew my h very well (we'd been together for 18 years) yet he was able to lie to me for over a year. Even now, I don't know if I would really know whether he is telling the truth. I do know that if he ever lied to me again about another woman I would be seeing a divorce lawyer sharpish. Do you really think it was just the two occasions? What do you want to do? Hope you are managing to eat. I found it very hard to eat as I had no appetite and every time I tried to eat the food seemed to stick in my throat.

StarExpat Wed 31-Mar-10 14:15:26

I meant you texting that would not be irrational at all.
It was certainly irrational forhim to kiss her in front of dc... or at all for that matter!

ladylush Wed 31-Mar-10 14:16:06

Cross posted shock Omg - so sorry sad angry

ggglimpopo Wed 31-Mar-10 14:19:59

Go and see a lawyer and the cab and photocopy everything you need (mortgage/bank/certs everything).

You don't need to do anything with this information, but having it will give you confidence. It gives you control over what you do and your choices and means you can be proactive, rather than reactive, especially if you decide to have him back and it goes tits up.

Ditto emotionally - go see someone by yourself - relate or a counsellor. To get yourself strong and into a good place where you are not all fuzzy and sad all the time (some of the time is admissable!).

Knowing where you stand is very powerful.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:22:45

he i asked if he hugged/kissed her at other times and he said yes, but that they didn't meet specially it was when they met with the kids or at work. the he must have realised how awful that was and sent a second text saying, that it wasn't in front of the kids or at work.

i replied saying thanks for the half honesty, i will be finding legal representation. and thats that. hes tried calling, but i am not buying any more shit.

no food, just want to vomit

skidoodly Wed 31-Mar-10 14:24:35

you are not being irrational

what an utter, utter cunt

your poor children

ladylush Wed 31-Mar-10 14:25:00

<hugs> try to do something nice for yourself as soon as you feel able. Maybe go out with your sister or a friend?

norksinmywaistband Wed 31-Mar-10 14:27:43

Can you drink if you can't eat - I remember surviving on milky coffee with sugar for a few days til I could stomach food then progressed to soup.

I agree you should go round the house and get all documentation re house/mortgage
savings accounts
credit card/loans
his wages
Car
Marriage certificate
photo ID for you

photocopied to take along to any meeting you do have with a solicitor. makes it quicker and saves you going back just to hand over paperwork.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:29:06

i am just so scared of being on my own

norksinmywaistband Wed 31-Mar-10 14:30:10

so angry for you

He is still thinking he can control the situation - sounds like he was only as honest as he wanted to besad

He is IMO only clawing his way back to you with his feel sorry for me act, because he has realised how much his being led by his cock has lost him everything.

Bit too late really

ladylush Wed 31-Mar-10 14:33:17

Personally the continued lying would be a complete deal breaker. You made it clear to him that you wanted the truth, yet he is still lying.

bossyboop Wed 31-Mar-10 14:34:10

oh no it just gets worse, tho in a way it might give you strength to walk away - reassure you its the right thing to do. I hope that is the end for them both tho - would like to see him suffer and lose everything and the inlaws will be fretting firstly over the fact they have him living at home again permanently and secondly over how often they will get to see their grandchildren, thus meaning he will be getting more stick off them. Feel empowered as now you are calling the shots and he is left feeling awful.

ggglimpopo Wed 31-Mar-10 14:36:35

I think because you are still being fed nonsense you should ring the husband. At least you will know more about what has really being going on.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:38:02

i feel the least empowered i have ever done.

i didnt think i could feel worse than i did

i feel like i dont want to lose him, but i lost him months ago didnt i.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:38:56

tried calling husband, no answer

kyotokate Wed 31-Mar-10 14:39:03

Holy Moly.... I have read this thread and it feels like you are peeling an onion - there is still more to reveal. Get counselling for yourself IMO it will really help you get through this. xx

norksinmywaistband Wed 31-Mar-10 14:42:12

hbm - you didn't lose him though he chose to disregard you and your feelings.
But yes, this didn't start when he said that sentence it started ages ago <hugs>

Sorry he is still lying.
Don't ring him, it won't bring you comfort

kyotokate Wed 31-Mar-10 14:43:04

Also being on your own with children is fine infact a lot better than being in a relationship that seems to be unravelling. xx

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:44:42

how could he do this to me

FabIsGettingThere Wed 31-Mar-10 14:47:28

HBM - I think you are amazing. You have done what you wanted but have been clear thinking enough to also take advice from the wise women on here.

I think he has been drip feeding you what he has been up too and I would be surprised if no more came out.

I kind of agree with you about the physical act/emotional affair but an EA can be just as devastating.

The deal breaker for me is the kissing in front of the children. I can't remember how old your eldest is but that is just not on.

I would see a solicitor, file for divorce and tbh not tell him what you are going to do ot talk to him for a while.

It won't be any fun being on your own at first but you will find it liberating and it also frees you to meet someone who will treat you like a princess should you decide that is what you want in the future.

Good luck. Stay strong.

StarExpat Wed 31-Mar-10 14:50:33

Any chance he's reading this? I hope not. It will help him formulate responses and manipulate more.

norksinmywaistband Wed 31-Mar-10 14:56:44

Starexpat - I had the same concerns about my Ex reading my posts at the time and even namechanged for a bit,
BUT he can only use the posts to manipulate if HBM lets him.

No outpouring of emotion or facts will have any effect on the truth of the situation.

hbm has done nothing wrong, he has.

She can divorce him on grounds of Adultery.

HBM I know it feels awful as if nothing can get any worse. The only way forwards now will be positive for you and your DC.

I agree it is sad to see the person you thought you knew so totally was a mirage

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 14:56:59

but i dont want anyone else, i want the man i married

IndiMamaJones Wed 31-Mar-10 14:57:54



Got to do school run but thinking of you

StarExpat Wed 31-Mar-10 15:00:04

sorry hbm and norks. I didn't mean to make that sound like I thought you shouldn't post. Not at all. And you've definitely done nothing wrong. It takes a lot of strength to even write this stuff down.

I just thought out loud and thought I'd post it just in case he does read it.

bossyboop Wed 31-Mar-10 15:00:17

if he was willing to fight hard for you would you want him back? From reading all this if it was me, I would want him to fight for me and i would want him to win me round as i wouldnt want to be on my own either and more to the point i would want to be with him. Whether i could be with him or whether we would just argue is something else entirely.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 15:03:31

bossyboop, everything you said really. sorry cant type at the mo. i cant actually breathe

SheWillBeLoved Wed 31-Mar-10 15:05:02

Homebirthmummy, I'm in Liverpool if you need me to track him down and give him an anonymous bollocking grin or just a chat.

The man you married, he's a man with the moral fabric of a sewer rat I'm afraid. Do you really want that? Do you and your daughter need that?

bossyboop Wed 31-Mar-10 15:08:43

this isnt something you have to do or fix or change overnight, whether you stay together or stay apart its going to be a long journey. I would want to talk to him coz how could he convince me or win me back if i ignore his texts or calls. But there would be times when i would need time on my own. You dont have to decide on anything. I just wish he was making more of an effort.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 15:09:38

i just miss him. the old him.

please do track him down! i just need all the truth. it is killing me not knowing

PlumBumMum Wed 31-Mar-10 15:11:11

sad I honestly can't believe how someone think its okay to meet the OW/OM with their children in tow, OMG

I think you need to speak to the other husband

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 15:11:27

i wish he was making an effort too. he text saying 'he didn't think telling me would make it worse'.

if he loved me wouldn't he be here? banging the door down? begging for forgiveness? not sitting at his parents feeling sorry for himself.

Bicnod Wed 31-Mar-10 15:11:35

HBM I'm so so sorry I've been lurking on the thread and I wish there was something I could do to take away your pain

Please don't rush into anything. You don't have to make any decisions right now. I know if it were me my head would be spinning. I don't know when that will settle down but I think you need to be kind to yourself, lean on your sister/friends as much as possible, cry a lot and not make any big decisions until the dust has settled.

I agree with bossyboop. I've always said to my DH one strike and you're out, but I think that's because I don't believe he'd ever do anything (who does?). I can't imagine I would stop loving him/stop wanting him/be able to let the past 10 years go even if he had revealed he had done the unthinkable. I don't know how you move forward and forgive - but I know people do it.

homebirthmummy Wed 31-Mar-10 15:12:28

plum - tried 3 times, on verge of looking like a stalker