Meeting a good friend who's just said that her boyfriend of 6 months has said that he never wants children. How do I advise her?

[ooosabeauta]

I'm meeting a good school friend for lunch, so thinking quickly about what to say. She's absolutely wonderful and what I would call excellent mother material, kind and sensitive, and I've always pictured her having children.

My instant reaction to her asking what to do about her bloke's revelation is that she shouldn't decide never to have a family just to keep him. I want to say that you'll love your children more than any partner, so downtrade if necessary the boyfriend and have children because they'll be even better. I can't say this because it sounds tactless and judgemental, and too self-centred just because that's how I feel about my life.

What would you say to her?

Just popping off to have shower, but really would love to come back to some good advice

[warthog]

i would tell her to believe him, and don't think that he'll change his mind. she should think carefully about what she wants.

i disagree with you about downgrading your partner because you'll love your kids more. not a great way of finding a good man and setting a good example for your kids... a relationship based on that principle is doomed to failure.

[TulipsInTheRain]

when dp and i first got together he used to say 'I never want kids... I could never be responsible for bringing a child into this world with all the evil that exists in it'

we now have 3 gorgeous children whom he adores and who he wanted as much as i did

people change, don't encourage her to write off a relationship because of something he's said that he probably hasn't put much thought into at all.

[skidoodle]

I don't love my children more than my husband, so a bit mystified by that logic.

She's only been with this guy for six months. If he doesn't want children and she does then she should break up with him. He might be great, but in the long term he's obviously not the man for her if their ideas of any shared future are so different.

Seems straightforward to me - they've had the conversation a reasonable amount of time into the relationship, he's been honest about what he wants. She's now in a position to make her own choices.

[BitOfFun]

I wouldn't focus on saying anything really- it's probably more productive to sensitively listen, and reflect back to her what she is saying if it seems inconsistent. It is more helpful for you to help her understand how she feels and what she wants to do than to give advice based on what you would do, iyswim. Having said that, I guess if she asks directly, you just have to give your opinion and say that you'd not be able to stay with somebody who didn't want you to fulfill your dreams.

[thumbwitch]

Depends on how old they both are. If she in particular is in her mid 30s and doesn't at some point want to be a single mother, I would consider suggesting ditching him and moving on, IF she is looking for help and advice on this matter. If she doesn't bring it up, I wouldn't say anything about it, tbh.

I do know of one couple where he was adamant he didn't want DC; his wife at some point got pg, not sure how (don't know her) and he left her before the baby was born.]disgusted emoticon].

Does she want DC herself?

[Sadlou81]

i woudlnt say anything
Id just listen

[Lulumaam]

it is a different kind of love for a partner than a child so that is not , imo , a good argument, it is not either/or, you loce both differently

if she has always imagined having children, or is remotley broody, then investing time in a relationship with someone who does not want children is a mistake

you can't push down that desire for children once your body clock had started ticking

she can find a good loving decent man who wants kids, not settle for downtrading

i agree with warthog, she should believe him and not hope she will change his mind or that marriage will change his midn

[ooosabeauta]

Thanks for all the advice. I kind of agree with all of your different points, even though they're contradictory, which is why I'm a bit bufuddled. She does want advice, she has said, although my usual tack would be to listen and let her come to conclusions.

She also does want dcs in the future - she's 30, so not a great rush, but was in her life's plan iyswim. I suppose I don't really mean that she should downgrade. I mean that a man who's great as a partner for a more single-style life would not be so great in the future if you find yourself disappointed by the outcome of not having children, and so maybe she could meet someone who'll fulfil all of her dreams if she leaves him (that sounds tacky but can't think of a better way of putting it).

Thank you again for sensitive advice.

[Lulumaam]

if having children is one of her dreams , then how can tehre be a future with this man, however lovely, if he does not want childrne

you can't compromise on this

[ooosabeauta]

Yes that's the issue really Lulumaam. I'm the only one of our immediate school friends who's had a baby so I think she's kind of asking me if it's worth it, or if she should live without it, and if it lives up to what you expect. I'll see whether she's expecting him to change and bear in mind your advice. Must go and meet her now. Thanks again!

[Mumfun]

Yes one of the things you cant compromise on. And lots of Mumsnetters may say their DP changed their mind and did want kids later but that is not guaranteed at all sadly.

But actually its good theyve discussed it so she knows -far worse to be long time in and then find out.

Its a toughie and one where she will have to decide eventually.

[FabIsDoingPrettyWell]

I was with someone once who never wanted to get married and I decided I would rather live with him than not have him at all. I think I might have been kidding myself. Weirdly, luckily, he hit me and I immediately fell out of love with him and left.

14 years later I am very happily married.

I think the OP's friend has a similar dilemma. This man might not change his mind about having children and if she knows she wants them then she has some seriously thinking to do as there will be another man she can love who wants children, but this current one might not change his mind. It is a gamble and is she willing to take it?

[thumbwitch]

oh dear!
"I think she's kind of asking me if it's worth it, or if she should live without it, and if it lives up to what you expect"

If she wants DC, she is always going to feel that something is missing if she is denied the opportunity to try and have them. It will eventually lead to resentment in most cases - and then probably failure of the relationship. She can't base such a major life decision on how you feel about having your DC (although I am sure you would tell her it's the best thing you've ever done, I know that's what I think about having DS)

I was never sure I wanted DC - but I knew damn well that if I was told I could never have them, it would hurt - so from that I concluded that I probably wouldn't mind having one/some. I was surprised how much I love it though! You could ask her how she thinks she might feel if she were to be told she could never have them - if it hurts her too, she has to make her decision based on that premise.

[shonaspurtle]

She needs to believe him and try to work out how she'll feel if 5 years down the line she's committed to this relationship and he's not changed his mind.

He's being honest with her so it would be foolish to not go into this with her eyes open.

[Lulumaam]

you cant decide for her, not should she decide if it is worht it, based on your experiences of motherhood

she needs to believe he does not want kids, and enviision herslef 20 years down the line, with no children, maybe split form him because the not having children has ruined things

she needs to look at the longterm

wanting children is virutally impossible to push to one side

[irmacrabbe]

How old is the BF? Why is he so anti-kids - has he already got some? It's possible he might not want kids with her, doesn't see her as being "the one" (a phrase I hate BTW).
Is she ready to commit to him, or is she just happy to see how things go?

If she's sure she loves him and wants a future with him then I agree with those who say she should believe him. And 30 is still relatively young but if you want more than one child, you need to think about it sooner rather than later. Happily I finally had a child in my early 40s but it meant it was too late to have another one.

[skidoodle]

""I think she's kind of asking me if it's worth it, or if she should live without it"

Then ask her if he's worth it. Is this man she's know for half a year worth giving up on something she's always wanted that for many people is the most fulfilling thing they ever do?

Don't indulge any talk of changing minds. People who tell the person they are dating that they never want children tend to have thought it through. She needs to make a decision based on the idea that if she stays with him she will never be a mother.

[thumbwitch]

And just in case she's thinking of using it as an ultimatum (i.e. - if you really don't want DC then I can't be with you) in the hopes that he will change his mind, advise her not to - disastrous thing to do, IMO.

[skidoodle]

"if you really don't want DC then I can't be with you"

That's not an ultimatum, it's a statement of fact. As long as she means it and actually breaks up with him, then that's pretty much exactly what she should be saying. (What else?)

Even if she hopes that he is struck by a bolt broody lightning, it doesn't really matter if that helps her to do what she needs to do.

[Eurostar]

How old is he? I've worked with/been friends with many men who said they never wanted kids but by the age of 45 - 50 pretty much all of them have them and majority are happy about it.

If he's about 30 I wouldn't worry for a couple of years. Usually when they see their friends start to have kids they want it too. Those that stay childless find their social lives quite changed when most of their circle have children and if they are not the sort to be happy hanging out with every younger people they often just want to fit in with the life stage their friends are at. However, if he's 40ish and saying he never wants kids then I'd be more inclined to think that was his life choice for now. I say for now because I also know men who have had children in late 50s.

[Lonicera]

I was in my mid thirties before I decided to have children. I really didn't think I'd ever want them when I was in my twenties. So yes people can change

[skidoodle]

"If he's about 30 I wouldn't worry for a couple of years."



Oh god, please save her from the fate of waiting around while all this man's friends have kids hoping he will eventually change his mind out of boredom.

She is 30. She doesn't have years to piss away hoping a man who's been perfectly clear about his intentions might change his mind.

[Ponymum]

I wish I could send her off to have a chat with my sister. My sister who married the guy who said he didn't want kids. Well now 10 years later, with my sister aged 39, guess what? He really doesn't want kids.

In the meantime my sister's biological clock has gone insane and she is consumed by the situation she now finds herself in. It is like watching a car crash. She is now so upset she is refusing to be realistic about it, and has become bitter, confused and depressed. Horrible, just horrible.

Tell your friend to believe the guy when he says he won't change his mind. And her need to have children will get stronger, not weaker, as her 30s progress. This is a choice which affects the rest of her life even though it probably doesn't feel like it right now.

[bibbitybobbityhat]

If I was going to give her any advice, if she wants it?, I'd tell her to leave him. They've only been together six months. They'll get over it!

[Lulumaam]

i've got a male friend who has said, from 18/19 onwards he never wants marriage/children. he's approaching 40, and not changed his mind, though he dotes on mine and my sister's DCs, he doenst want his own and has always made it v v plain, i know he's had relationships that have broken down due to him not changing, but he has only even been upfront

seeing friends have children has simply stregnthened his feelings about not having his own, so can' rely on seeing other people having families chnaing his mind